Treating Fluoroquinolone Anxiety

Free-floating, often severe, anxiety is a common symptom of fluoroquinolone toxicity.

Fluoroquinolones thoroughly mess up GABA neurotransmitters, and GABA “plays the principal role in reducing neuronal excitability throughout the nervous system.”  Here are a few articles that describe how fluoroquinolones negatively affect GABA – Article 1, Article 2, Article 3.

To put what fluoroquinolones do to GABA neurotransmitters into a framework, they basically throw people into protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal.  People who have gone through benzodiazepine withdrawal at any time in life should NEVER take a fluoroquinolone.  See “Benzodiazepine tolerance, dependency, and withdrawal syndromes and interactions with fluoroquinolone antimicrobials” for more information about how fluoroquinolones affect people who have a history of benzodiazepine use and withdrawal.

The things that help people through protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal may be helpful for floxies too.  GABA neurotransmitters and receptors have been iatrogenically damaged by both drugs, and they need to heal.  From what I understand, the Ashton Manual has a lot of good information in it about healing from benzodiazepine withdrawal.  Support sites like may also be helpful.

A very interesting review of supplements to treat anxiety (specifically benzodiazepine induced anxiety, but the advice is applicable to floxies too) can be found through this link –

Additionally, Ruth has researched and written extensively about fluoroquinolone induced anxiety and I suggest reading her story – and listening to her podcast –  She also wrote some very interesting and insightful comments on my story starting about June 9, 2015 –

Ruth mentions supplementing uridine in her story:

I also have found that uridine works really well when I get that horrible insomnia and nothing else is helping. Uridine has it’s own receptors in the brain, so maybe it is a way floxies can bypass GABA receptor damage. I cannot prevent a relapse with it. I take it after the relapse starts, 500-750 mg with a fish oil capsule to help it work better. It’s something to have in reserve for those times you just want to crawl out of your own skin and you need to get some rest. Taking it every day did nothing for me. It has to be timed just right, at the moment that every time I’m starting to fall asleep symptoms are getting more intense and now I’m standing there by my bed with my skin just burning, knowing I am not going to sleep. A couple uridine and I’m out within thirty minutes.

It has recently come to my attention that uridine helps to reduce epileptic seizures and that increases free GABA, thus it has a calming influence. I have found it to be useful.

The things that helped me to get through cipro-induced anxiety are: 1. Acupuncture, 2. Meditation, 3. Stress reduction – especially flox related stress – that meant getting off the internet.

I went through a recent period of pain that induced anxiety. Kava helped me a lot. The longecity article recommends against kava, and I think that their concerns are valid. It is only for short-term use and it probably isn’t best for people who have had a history of benzo withdrawal. Personally, I’ve never had a benzo and I only needed to use kava for a short period of time.  It was a life-saver during the time I used it. Be careful with it though.

There is a vicious cycle when it comes to fluoroquinolone toxicity symptoms and anxiety.  Fluoroquinolone toxicity symptoms lead to stress and anxiety (it’s a pretty reasonable to be stressed and anxious when you’re suddenly in pain, you can’t move but when you do you tear tendons, you lose your memory, and suffer from chronic insomnia – to name just a few symptoms of fluoroquinolone toxicity), stress and anxiety negatively affect the autonomic nervous system (ANS) and lead to dysautonomia, ANS damage leads to more fluoroquinolone toxicity symptoms, which leads to more stress, and so on, and so on.

I don’t think that fluoroquinolone toxicity is “just” anxiety, but I do think that anxiety makes every symptom of fluoroquinolone toxicity worse.  I also think that there is nothing to be trivialized about anxiety.  It’s not a choice.  It’s the central and autonomic nervous systems going completely hay-wire, and both stress and anxiety can lead to serious health problems.

I know that anxiety makes you not want to do these things, but I also suggest trying really hard to do the simple things that make you healthy and happy. Sleep plenty. Enjoy your food. Laugh a lot. Be social. Hang out with a pet and/or children. Those things are healthy and they are healing. They’re easier said than done, but they’re certainly worth a try.


In my opinion, it’s imperative for floxies to get stress and anxiety symptoms under control.  Neither stress nor anxiety are easy things to control, and, like I said earlier, it’s not a choice – it’s GABA neurotransmitter damage – but anything that can be done to reduce stress and anxiety will help the GABA neurotransmitters to heal, and will help the ANS and CNS to normalize.

Fluoroquinolone induced anxiety can be crawl-out-of-your-skin horrible, but it does get better.  Hang in there, my friends.


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111 thoughts on “Treating Fluoroquinolone Anxiety

  1. kris t June 22, 2015 at 6:41 am Reply

    Lisa, thanks for your continued updates. Are you still taking the iron? I am just so wiped out most of the time. I did do a little swim before church yesterday. I am really depressed and I have a bottle of Celexa in my kitchen cabinet, but have not started it yet. I am worried it will make my mouth drier and it is really dry now. Also don’t know if I will be able to get off of it. To top everything off, I think I may have to have my gallbladder taken out! I wonder what anesthesia will do with floxing. Legs are still popping in the morning and yesterday the back was doing it as well, even though I am taking magnesium. I just play it day by day. Today I am going to try to eat lunch with some friends and hopefully will find something on the menu I can tolerate! Hugs to everyone on their journey through this nightmare. Kris

  2. Linda Livingston June 22, 2015 at 7:34 am Reply

    Oh Lisa you are so right about the effects of anxiety: “I don’t think that fluoroquinolone toxicity is “just” anxiety, but I do think that anxiety makes every symptom of fluoroquinolone toxicity worse. I also think that there is nothing to be trivialized about anxiety. It’s not a choice. It’s the central and autonomic nervous systems going completely hay-wire, and both stress and anxiety can lead to serious health problems.” I notice it especially in regard to my breathing problems. When I feel myself getting stressed, I can actually FEEL the nerves in my neck and chest press in, and because the breathing issue is not lung related, but rather related to nerve damage in the heart muscle and/or autonomic nervous system damage, it just exacerbates it. (Like you I have also used something on the “no” list—had to use xanax to get through a dental appointment during all this, and it seemed to have no adverse effects, as a one time aid.)

  3. Seager June 27, 2015 at 6:14 pm Reply

    I must say this symptom (aside from the chronic shortness of breath) has to be the worst in dealing with all of this. I have been to the ER 7 times in 3 months short of breath chronically and unable to sleep. Every time I get to sleep I’m jolted awake over and over unable to breathe. It’s odd because I was put on these drugs to treat the bad breathing in the first place so I’m not sure what I’m dealing with exactly. Sleep apnea, lung infection, virus or just being floxed now? It’s all a big jumble. A chaotic mess. I hate these thoughts I’m having. They’re hopeless thoughts.

    • Linda Livingston June 27, 2015 at 8:14 pm Reply

      I have also been dealing with breathing problems. I was given Cipro for a UTI at the same time I was given prednisone for some lingering asthma. I had over a dozen horrific side effects but the worst has been the breathing…which at times bordered on suffocating. What makes it worse for me is nerve damage causes my neck and chest to feel like they are pressing in, so at times I feel like I am choking at the same time. I am still dealing with the breathing issue, and a couple other things, but it is not as suffocating as it was. What I think is causing it, at least for me, is damage to the autonomic nervous system and/or mitochondrial damage to the heart muscle (suggested by a pharmaceutical researcher).

      Since inhaled steroids can exacerbate FLQ toxicity, I have weaned myself off ,while getting H2O2 IVs. I have now been off the steroids over 3 weeks and my lungs are doing fine. I check them with a peak flow device, so the breathing issue is not lung-related. Among the other IV drips I get is Phosphatidylcholine, that is supposed to help with nerve and mitochondrial damage.

      I really can empathize with your situation. Stress makes everything worse, but it is hard not to be stressed when you are dealing with all this. And as Lisa has pointed out, stress is actually part of the side effects, in addition to being a natural reaction to what is happening to you. At its worst I was incredibly hopeless, and in fact did not want to keep struggling to breathe. It was truly nightmarish and I am not sure how I got through that phase. It is still difficult, but since there is definite improvement, I just have to hope that will continue. What have they told you at the hospital, Seager? Did anyone say you had a virus? If not, if may again be nerve damage that is making you breathless.

  4. Eurico July 19, 2015 at 3:14 pm Reply

    When I had an allergic reaction to ciprofloxacin, they began to insomnia. I had to tomat Lorazepam to sleep, and was in my opinion the key to recovery, because sleep is as important as eating. Sorry my english.

    • Linda Livingston July 19, 2015 at 4:17 pm Reply

      Eurico–yes, quite a problem. You NEED sleep, but you CAN’T sleep because of the FLQ toxicity. I had to take Zolpidem, to get even one hour sleep. And that one hour was the only reprieve I got from the nightmarish “suffocating” I was experiencing. I have been weaning myself off though and am now down to 1/4 pill (hard to cut!) so I believe I will be off completely in the next week or so.

  5. Jason October 16, 2015 at 11:09 am Reply

    There are two critical details missing here for me.

    1. Gaba balances Glutamate – Floxies need to avoid Glutamine, Glutamic Acid and the 50+ sources of MSG in which many of them are hidden in foods under other names (google hidden sources of MSG). ALL of these will very likely cause Floxies with Gaba damage issues, I know they did me and that was WITH this knowledge, restaurant food, acciedently in some supplements etc

    2. People can take GABA. Now foods sells it, many others do too. Helped me out a jam several times. Of course there are some other good supplements too but Gaba was what helped me. If I had high strung anxiety (I did not) then I am sure I would take several things

    Taking Gaba goes against what this article suggests linked above and I don’t agree with some other things it mentions either from all the research I have done, and my own and other people’s experiences.

    Ruth seems to indicate that flooding the receptors with too much Gaba could be bad, which could likely be true I’m unsure of this (too much of anything is usually not good though) but I don’t see how taking chemicals is a better solution. Time will likely heal them, in the meantime you need a bandaid fix, my money goes to “natural” ways to do this, Gaba, Magnesium, L-theanine, Melatonin, Seratonin, Valerian Root, and many more proven to help anxiety, where as chemicals are proven over and over and over again to cause cancer, tons of side effects, dependency, and all kinds of other issues, no thanks

    • Linda October 16, 2015 at 11:53 am Reply

      Taurine is also on the “no” list and it has so many other benefits. It protects the heart, the eyes, the liver (esp important with all the detoxing), tinnitus and more

      • Jason October 16, 2015 at 12:23 pm Reply

        Indeed that one was of the ones I was referring to good catch 🙂

        • Linda October 16, 2015 at 12:58 pm

          like you said…like minds (or was that great minds?) 😉

        • Jason October 16, 2015 at 2:57 pm

          I should note though, that article does make some good points, I read it before a few months ago, since Gaba receptors are damaged, and since that damage is reported to be “down-regulation” (though I am not sure that is the extent of it…), we probably would not want to down-regulate them further.

          Where I have doubts is if some of those things even do that (and where and what and who did the studies or provided the info, it does seem to provide legit sources). Also, I’m not sure there is a better band-aid solution while the receptors heal, since I know some of these work, and note that “prolonged use” is cited for the info provided, some studies talk about “chronic use” and it does mention short term use should still be okay. I also don’t think all anxiety is Gaba related, for example Adrenaline/Cortisol issues can cause it as well and there is no mention of this.

          There is a lot of interesting info there, I copied and pasted it months ago and added it to my Library, but many of those things have been used for years to successfully treat anxiety, possibly not without some temporary ill effects I suppose.

          BTW Linda, how do you follow all of the most recent posts on this site? I never figured that out.

        • Linda October 16, 2015 at 3:06 pm

          I don’t! It’s mostly accidental….And if I get a reply to something I posted, I just scroll back a ways…

      • Jason February 29, 2016 at 4:22 pm Reply

        Something else interesting about Taurine, which goes back to the GUT again & Gaba. (B6 mentioned again too, that sucker is important for a boatload of stuff)

        When someone has a Yeast infection AKA Candida VERY often caused by taking Antiobiotics, one of the SEVENTY-NINE toxins released is Beta-Alanine, an Amino Acid. The problem with this is it competes with Taurine for reabsorption in the Kidneys, and Taurine ends up WASTED in the Urine.

        The tricky thing here is Urine Tests can show high levels of Taurine fooled MANY Doctors into thinking someone has lots or too much Taurine, BUT YOUR ACTUAL CELLS ARE DEFICIENT.

        Taurine is important for many things including “calmness”, thus just ONE way FQ toxicity causes Candida which causes Anxiety.

        More info here:

        • Linda February 29, 2016 at 7:41 pm

          well, I added taurine back in for my heart and nerves. the life extension site says this about it: “taurine is undoubtedly one of the most essential substances in the body.”

      • Donna Fiederlein January 8, 2019 at 9:47 pm Reply

        Taurine is an antedote for MSG, just an fyi

    • Jason October 16, 2015 at 9:20 pm Reply

      I am just remembering something, that I found some research suggesting there was a natural way to actually help heal the Gaba receptors IIRC, I posted it somewhere in the main pages probably 4 or 5 months ago, finding it won’t be easy….

      • Jason October 17, 2015 at 12:39 am Reply

        Pretty sure this was it:

        They studied epileptic rats, and found down-regulated Gaba receptors, and that Bacopa helped reverse that and seizures, etc

        Bacopa has many other reported benefits, here are a couple other related ones:

        Quote “Bacopa interacts with serotonin receptors, which results in smoothed out serotonin levels. This can result in reduced depression and anxiety

        Bacopa is able to increase the number of working GABA receptors in the brain.

        GABA is a neurotransmitter associated with relaxation. As a result of stress and substance abuse GABA receptors can become burned out. This burn out can lead to anxiety and extremes of exhaustion and hyperactivity”

        Apparently this is NOT just a bandaid fix, which is why I got excited about it for all Floxies when I found it and posted about it. I remember Rene chiming in about it and saying she had read similar things as well and/or had found that study. I imagine for this to have positive effects it may take some time, but this is only a guess on my part because I don’t have high anxiety from Gaba receptor damage and have not tried it, I only mention this to keep in mind if someone takes it for a week and gets discouraged.

        Linda you’ll like this tidbit I think, here is what I found one person reporting:

        “I’m autistic (ME=> Yasko has documented the critical importance of Glutmate/Gaba balance in Autism) and my primary symptom is pervasive sensory dysfunction i.e. everything is too subjectively loud and bright all the time even when it objectively isn’t

        • Linda October 17, 2015 at 8:50 am

          I’ll put this on my “to do” list. I am supplemented out and trying to cut down on some at this point. (plus my GI system is still so screwed up I wonder how much value, if any, I am getting out of any of my supplements.) It was nice of you to post even though you yourself have no need of it. (and again, it makes me think what a kind and informed ND you would make!!!)

        • Jason October 17, 2015 at 4:12 pm

          You are so kind thank you again this makes my day really does 🙂

          I’m with you on the supplements, you really really don’t want to see my cupboards (notice the plural, good God)

          I do have some Bacopa, and even though I rarely have anxiety anymore, I first had it 20 years ago and am not immune to it, caffeine will trigger it if I ingest just a little too much, sometimes passing cars on the highway gives me mild palpitations, I have figured out I have Adrenal issues which is definitely partly behind this. So many issues 😦

        • tarkonis November 5, 2015 at 2:52 am

          Jason, if I was to buy this in supplement form, what would I buy? Thanks Dave.

        • Jason November 7, 2015 at 8:15 am

          Lisa posted this article in the main pages a few months ago in a reply to me that I think should be posted here as well, this looks like something that can help without the risk of keeping the receptors downgraded (I don’t think it is an AGONIST but could be wrong)

          Note For Floxies I don’t think THC is a good idea at all, only CBD Oil with very little or no THC


          “Furthermore, there is evidence that endogenous cannabinoid transmission plays a role in the manipulation of other transmitter systems within the basal ganglia by increasing GABAergic transmission, inhibiting glutamate release and affecting dopaminergic uptake”

      • Jason November 5, 2015 at 4:25 pm Reply

        Hi Dave. I am taking one right now that I think could be helping my minor Tinnitus but its a little hard to say and early to tell. The one I am taking is not pure Bacopa though also, its a “Mind” supplement called “Himalaya Herbal Healthcare MindCare”, and it is the first ingredient however there are MANY others in there, and I’m not sure if all of them would be suitable for you.

        That same company makes a pure Bacopa supplement as well, and are fairly well reviewed so should be a reliable supplier (the one I have is the only one from that company I have tried so far so I can’t really speak to this from personal experience). They list some of the benefits as follows:

        Supports the mind and intellect*
        Supports normal mental acuity*
        Supports the physiological processes involved in relaxation*
        Has an adaptogenic effect*
        Used historically as a potent nerve tonic*
        Promotes alert daytime learning by calming the preoccupied mind

        Many people seem to report memory improvement, which is another thing I think Bacopa is noted for.

        This company below is where I try to order from whenever I can, they have THE best prices anywhere, great customer service and I believe good quality products.

        You can search “Bacopa” there and see some other options, they make one another one of their own (their own brand) that is a bit cheaper and higher mg but note it is not “standardized” from looking at it, which is why I believe the other one is a little more

        Hope it helps

    • Jason October 25, 2015 at 9:33 pm Reply

      This crap is everywhere, 50+ hidden sources waiting to screw over Floxies

      Note it looks like I did not finish one of my sentences above:

      ALL of these will very likely cause Floxies with Gaba damage issues ANXIETY and/or BRAIN FOG – is what it should have said.

      The “very likely” is understating it, this stuff is proven to do it in people who are healthy, nevermind Floxed.

      People can learn more about in Dr. Blaylock’s book, “The taste that kills”, Russel is THE expert on this.

      • Linda October 26, 2015 at 9:30 am Reply

        wow—lots of sources of glutatmate!!!! maltodextrin is in a LOT of really good supplements from well respected companies. I cut out why protein because of the “whey” and now use a collagen protein powder. but not always easy to avoid everything. One thing that I was thinking a lot about yesterday was about being too cautious. If I were to adhere to everything on the low histamine diet and everything on the high alkaline diet, in addition to the gluten/soy/dairy/gmo free organic diet, there literally would be nothing left for me to eat. as long as I am making improvements, I think common sense and a clean diet (“eat real food”) will be my guide.

      • Jason October 28, 2015 at 2:24 pm Reply

        Click to access Excitotoxins.pdf

        Excellent article from Dr. Blaylock (very progressive, honest, and outspoken Doctor on the many dangers/diseases to Humans out there that Medical system ignores) on excitotoxins such as Glutamate, how to avoid them and what you can so to help, 8 pages.

        Please remember he is NOT even talking about Floxies here, who have damaged Gaba receptors and are MUCH more sensitive/susceptible to everything he is talking about.

        Quote, “How can we protect ourselves from all these hazards? Since some restaurants use as much as 9.9 grams of MSG into a single dish to enhance the taste (enough to produce brain damage in animals) it is important to watch where we eat and what we feed our children. Fast foods are known to be full of excitotoxins. We know that humans have higher blood levels of glutamate following ingestion than any other species studied.

        We are extremely sensitive to excitotoxins and especially when more than one type is eaten at a given time. If you give a two year old child soup and a diet pop you are exposing that child to 500 micromules of MSG in the blood which is enough to cause destruction to the nerves in the hypothalamus. In humans, once the blood level of the excitotoxin has subsided, the brain levels of the excitotoxin remain elevated for up to 24 hours. The destruction of the neurons continues.

        The key here is to eat food as close to nature as possible at all times. We should each consider clearing our pantries and refrigerators to eliminate all foods with MGS, NutraSweet and hydrolyzed vegetable protein. This includes virtually all processed foods, some of the worst offenders are soups, salad dressings, steak sauce, gravy mixes, chips, cream sauces and gourmet foods. Read labels carefully and re-learn the joys of cooking and a simple diet”

        Me -> Found in restaurant and processed foods and many supplements as well.

    • Jason November 30, 2015 at 12:24 am Reply

      More about Gaba, showing that the active form of Vitamin B6 could be very helpful (also Taurine again with the caveat from above, and Genetic ones too):

      “How does the body manufacture GABA?

      The amino acid L-glutamine, the most abundant amino acid in your body, is the precursor to GABA production. What occurs is that glutamine is first converted within your body to glutamic acid or glutamate, which is your body’s most abundant excitatory neurotransmitter. Glutamic acid is responsible for your attention span, memory, brain energy, learning ability, staying awake and the metabolism of carbohydrates. From there the enzyme glutamate decarboxylase (big word I know……means nothing to most people, only nerds like me) converts glutamate to GABA.

      Now for this enzyme to work effectively Vitamin B6, or more importantly the active form of vitamin B6 – Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (P5P), is essential to increase it’s production 42,43 while the amino acid taurine increases the communication and productivity of that big worded enzyme 6, 7. Interestingly, studies have shown that anxiety may occur as a result of taurine deficiency 10, 11. Zinc on the other hand has been shown to enhance the release of GABA from its receptors. Both zinc and vitamin B6 are essential for the production of your other brain chemicals such as serotonin, dopamine, noradrenaline, adrenaline and histamine 43.

      Nutrients to increase GABA levels besides the above ones:

      Theanine – a plant-based amino acid found only in tea increases levels of GABA within the brain 8, 9, increases the production of alpha brainwaves 12, 13, 14 and enhances GABA A receptor response 60. Studies have shown that theanine is useful in the treatment of anxiety due to its ability to sedate the central nervous system as well as improving the quality of sleep and counteract the toxic effects of stress 15, 16. How smart were the generations gone before us……when someone was stressed their initial response was “come inside and sit down, I’ve just put on a pot of tea”……not coffee which can be stimulating and have the opposite effect! (<= ME, NOTE TEA IS A BAD IDEA for many reasons, some of which I have posted here already, buy the supplement is going this route)

      Inositol – a B group vitamin may help alleviate anxiety and depression, by enhancing the ability of GABA to bind to the benzodiazepine receptors within the brain 35, 36, 37, 38, 39. Inositol may also help to stimulate poorly sensitive serotonin receptors within the brain 20. and facilitate a good night's sleep 40.

      Magnesium – deficiency is common in western society with up to 80% of women and 70% of men having some form of magnesium deficiency. Magnesium binds to and activates GABA receptors 54. Anxiety, panic disorders, apathy, poor attention span, depression, insomnia, irritability and nervousness may all result from magnesium deficiency 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52. Magnesium may also improve the length and quality of slow wave sleep 53.

      Potassium is required to help stimulate the release of GABA within the brain 68. Potassium deficiency may be responsible for anxiety, depression and irritability 50, 55, 56, 57. Potassium may improve the quality of sleep and reduce the frequency of awakenings after the onset of sleep 58. "


      Note the article makes a bunch of other suggestions too, but to me the ones above (less L-glutamine not a good idea) are the top contenders from its list, and I think P5P and Inositol seem very important and are rarely suggested anywhere.

      Note too, it mentions taking Gaba directly is not always desirable, and though it doesn't mention it many other articles will say taking Gaba may not be effective because it apparently doesn't cross the BBB (Blood Brain Barrier). Yet, thousands of people report that taking Gaba helps alleviate their anxiety… (for me personally I don't usually ever have anxiety but Gaba alone works to cure Glutamate induced Brain Fog without question, in 20 mins flat)

      • Jason November 30, 2015 at 2:12 am Reply

        Holy cow, look what this article says about the importance of P5P (Vit B6) for Gaba:

        “The predominant precursor for GABA synthesis is glucose, which is metabolized to glutamate by the tricarboxylic acid cycle enzymes, although pyruvate and glutamine can also act as precursors. The enzyme glutamic acid decarboxylase (GAD), which is found almost exclusively in GABAergic neurons, catalyzes the conversion of glutamate to GABA (Figure 6.10A). GAD requires a cofactor, pyridoxal phosphate, for activity. Because pyridoxal phosphate is derived from vitamin B6, a B6 deficiency can lead to diminished GABA synthesis.

        The significance of this became clear after a disastrous series of infant deaths was linked to the omission of vitamin B6 from infant formula. The lack of B6 resulted in a large reduction in the GABA content of the brain, and the subsequent loss of synaptic inhibition caused seizures that in some cases were fatal.”

        WOW. This is interesting too, “The mechanism of GABA removal is similar to that for glutamate: Both neurons and glia contain high-affinity transporters for GABA. Most GABA is eventually converted to succinate, which is metabolized further in the tricarboxylic acid cycle that mediates cellular ATP synthesis. The enzymes required for this degradation, GABA aminotransferase and succinic semialdehyde dehydrogenase, are both mitochondrial enzymes”

        Note, this article and the one above I linked very importantly mention the Amino Acid Glycine, and its role as a calming agent in the body (it works with Gaba). HOWEVER, it also works with Glutamate, so this one might be better left alone for Floxie, a shame too as Glycine reportedly can help Insomnia and to reduce Adrenaline. (Dr. Blaylock noted a study about it that said Glycine helps relax the CNS, but excites the Brain, that is only one study not sure if more, I wonder if the Gaba effect is not applying in the Brain and if not, why not seems a little odd)

        • Jason November 30, 2015 at 2:27 am

          Oh Look, like there were not enough other bad things about Gluten:

          Effects of Gluten – To convert Glutamic acid to GABA an important enzyme called glutamate decarboxylase is needed. Unfortunately people who suffer from gluten sensitivities (technically this is actually everyone in one sense since no one can digest it <= ME) produce immune substances called gliadin antibodies. These gliadin antibodies inhibit glutamate decarboxylase's activity, which results in less GABA production and a worse nights sleep 1. (and more anxiety <= ME)

        • Jason April 22, 2016 at 12:02 am

          The importance of Zinc on Gaba:

          Quote “Zinc is a sedative, calming mineral for the brain. When copper becomes high, zinc levels drop, increasing the stimulating effect of copper on the mental functions. GABA, an inhibitory, calming neurotransmitter, is zinc dependent.”

          Here is another problem for Floxies, many of them have Adrenal Fatigue, when this happens, Copper becomes bio-unavailable and accumulates and can become toxic, causing the above quote to happen. This is a case where someone is “wired and tired”, they have anxiety (Copper/Gaba issue) but are also exhausted at the same time (AF)

      • Jason January 15, 2016 at 7:05 pm Reply

        Here is a very important study showing the connection of Gut to Brain and how Gut affects GABA in a big way, heal your Gut Floxies and many things will get better:

        Big long study there here is the intro:

        γ-Aminobutyric acid (GABA) is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the body and hence GABA-mediated neurotransmission regulates many physiological functions, including those in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract. GABA is located throughout the GI tract and is found in enteric nerves as well as in endocrine-like cells, implicating GABA as both a neurotransmitter and an endocrine mediator influencing GI function. GABA mediates its effects via GABA receptors which are either ionotropic GABAA or metabotropic GABAB. The latter which respond to the agonist baclofen have been least characterized, however accumulating data suggest that they play a key role in GI function in health and disease. Like GABA, GABAB receptors have been detected throughout the gut of several species in the enteric nervous system, muscle, epithelial layers as well as on endocrine-like cells. Such widespread distribution of this metabotropic GABA receptor is consistent with its significant modulatory role over intestinal motility, gastric emptying, gastric acid secretion, transient lower esophageal sphincter relaxation and visceral sensation of painful colonic stimuli. More intriguing findings, the mechanisms underlying which have yet to be determined, suggest GABAB receptors inhibit GI carcinogenesis and tumor growth. Therefore, the diversity of GI functions regulated by GABAB receptors makes it a potentially useful target in the treatment of several GI disorders. In light of the development of novel compounds such as peripherally acting GABAB receptor agonists, positive allosteric modulators of the GABAB receptor and GABA producing enteric bacteria, we review and summarize current knowledge on the function of GABAB receptors within the GI tract.

        • Jason January 15, 2016 at 7:13 pm

          More about Gut, Gaba & Serotonin:

          Gut bacteria significantly influences the communication between the brain and the gut. When the gut is full of healthy bacteria, it has the potential to regulate mood and positive feelings. Beneficial bacteria in the gut will increase GABA receptors in the brain to alleviate mood disorders like chronic depression. (<=ME – Anxiety, Insomnia, etc)

          Scientists have discovered in the past several decades that there is direct communication between the brain and the gastrointestinal tract. In fact, 90% of the serotonin produced in the body is found in the gut, a neurotransmitter responsible for regulating appetite, mood, sleep, and relaxation.

          This is from a Mercola article on same topic:

          In short, the probiotic Lactobacillus rhamnosus had a marked effect on GABA levels in certain brain regions and lowered the stress-induced hormone corticosterone, resulting in reduced anxiety- and depression-related behavior. When they severed the vagus nerve, GABA receptor levels and the animals' behavior remained unchanged after treatment with L. rhamnosus, confirming that the vagus nerve is most likely the primary pathway of communication between the bacteria in the gut and your brain.

        • Linda January 15, 2016 at 8:11 pm

          wow…so pretty much, the gut is connected to EVERYTHING.

        • Jason January 15, 2016 at 8:40 pm

          Yes, I have done MAJOR research on GUT, and it is pivotal to someone’s body in so many ways its not funny. I’ve read many many books from experts on Gut and Gut Brain connections etc, and with all the knowledge of I have from this and my studies on Quins, I am very convinced that Gut plays a massive role in someone’s suffering, and how long that suffering will endure.

          I can also tell you that my Immune system was always weak, and again this is based in the Gut (like 80% or so of it is Gut based) and I know once again Antibiotics ruined this for me over years, and Cipro delivered yet another crushing blow. (and if someone does not fix this, it leaves them open to Disease and Cancer)

        • Linda January 15, 2016 at 9:28 pm

          A friends young daughter was just diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis and asked for help from anyone who had dealt with it. A woman posted she ought to look into the Wahls diet. Of course then the person below that said that was ridiculous, it’s inherited, blah blah blah. So I posted below HER (especially after my acupuncturist said “check digestion”) that I thought the Wahls might be a good thing to start with and encouraged her to find an integrative doctor. I didn’t tell her that my acupuncturist also told me about a friend who almost died from the drugs he was told to take for the JRA, and only saved his life when he went the drug-free route.

        • Jason January 18, 2016 at 1:14 pm

          I don’t know if I included this link here or not already, but I have made a TON of posts about GUT here:

          Starting at my comment on November 29, 2015 at 9:24 pm about 20% down the page, and then for pretty much the entire rest of the page I posted a ton of info on why the GUT is so important to a Floxie, and why I think it is preventing many people from healing faster and what can be done about it (and of course GUT issues can be behind Anxiety and Insomnia). Also on that page is how to generally heal from Candida, Leaky Gut, and more, links to more information, diet information, recipes, links to expert advice and much more.

        • Jason April 15, 2016 at 7:25 pm

          I don’t think I have posted this here before, but Lactobacillus Rhamnosus, which is also a known Histamine degrader, can modulate the GABAergic system, and therefore can have benefits for those suffering from Anxiety and Depression

      • Mary November 17, 2017 at 8:07 am Reply

        This question is for Jason or anyone who might know the answer. According to some of your earlier posts AI gather more GABA is a good thing yet Glutamine which ultimately helps produce more GABA is a bad thing. I don’t get it. I know there were scientific articles cited but I need it explained very simply. Glutamine is good for the gut and I would really like to take some but don’t want to sabotage my nervous system.

    • Jason June 25, 2016 at 8:21 am Reply

      A little info about Gaba, and it crossing the Blood Brain Barrier etc.

      Dr. Datis Kharrazian put this in his popular and very good book “why isn’t my Brain Working”, apparently the Gaba molecule is too big to pass a healthy BBB, pretty sure there is at least one study on this like this one:

      Having said that, I and many others in the field see 1000’s of people helped by Gaba, so we can draw a couple of possible conclusions there:

      1. Maybe it is small enough

      2. Many people have “some level” of Leaky Gut (This IS true, regardless of Gaba concerns, and especially in people who are “not well”)

      3. Both the above

      There is Perlmutter’s opinion and a couple of studies showing it DOES “affect” Brain, of course we don’t know Gut Health of the subjects used.

      A couple of other interesting papers:

      Click to access BronsonGABA.pdf

      Quote, ” it appears to act on the CNS directly without crossing the blood/brain barrier.”

      The important point that is so strangely never talked about with this is I am pretty sure “some” Gaba gets manufactured in the GUT, and pretty sure there are receptors there too, and of course the Gut and Brain “talk” all the time, so even if Gaba does not cross the BBB, maybe that is why it still helps so many people as the above to links seem to alude too.

      There is a still the “potential issue” with using Gaba (and others things that directly increase it for that matter) for people with downregulated Gaba receptors like people who took Benzos or Cipro, as there are some studies (LONG TERM mostly as mentioned above and not all Human) that show doing so could “potentially” slow the process of up-regulation, but again if Gaba is truly the main problem for someone’s anxiety there are a few other good things they can do but this is a big one that can help until the body does heal them.

    • saskia April 23, 2019 at 2:07 am Reply

      i thought i had read somewhere tha the L-gluthamine was very important. so i bought a multvitamine with this L-gluthamine within it but that’s not god then?

      i realy realy want to sleep like i normally did. i can cry and cry about it. i realy HATE the doctor that gave me that stupid cipro for a stupid reason, because i was on trimethoprim already and because of my anxiety issues i dealed with all my live and i have had anxiety since 24 january because my daughter was in front of my eyes hit by a car when we let the dog out, i have seen our dog being swept underneath the car. we had seen the car coming towards us and it slipped and turned and i screemed RUN!! and i jumped right and my daughter couldnt anymore. so it was already stressful for me and then the urinary infection became at 9 march. and i always have lots of urinary infections last years, every time a different bacteria so i was very scared hearing this time it was serratia marcescens, because i went googling and read horrible things about this bacteria. so i got trimethorpim and after two days i was having still pains and couldnt sleep already that night, in the morning i throw up at the doctors and she said okay trimethoprim doen’s work for you and got me on cipro. but there was no signal of a kidney infection whatsoever, no fever, no pain when she hit my back, the urine was clear even!!!!! when tested there. it was what i think pure stress of all the things that happened in my life and i told her that, the accident, the anxiety disorder, the znxiety of the bacteria.

      she destroyed my life, i have a family with three young children, what if i will never sleep normal again, never will cure from this cypro devil, i live in anxiety because i’m afraid that maybe a new side effect will come on the pile over a few weeks. and okay there are things better but it’s like im not myself anymore. i see and know where everything is in my house, but when i look at it i look at it differently then before.
      can i swim in a swimming pool, where they use chlorine, can i swim in the ocean, what can i eat and what not? every thing i do every day is like OH my God, can this make me more ill? or will it help me. Doctors should be more educated. i went to the doctor on the second day because my head felt like if a steal pole was pressing from inside through my right side to my nose and cheeks. he said no its stress. then a day later i was again and because of the insommnia. i got temazepam (stupid doctor, i asked him, can it be used aside cipro then? Yes i didn’t need to worry) so i used two days 1 pill. it didn’t help at all. was after 1,5 hour awake again.
      that doctor should have read the side effects inside out of its head!!

      i realy hope to get normal again and live my life as i did, sleep as i usually did, enjoy life more then i did and eat like i did.

      i wish everyone that’s dealing with Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and Floxin a good health again and strenght!

  6. Jason October 16, 2015 at 4:34 pm Reply

    There was another important omission here too (though the more I think about it, the more I come up with but this one is a biggy) that just came up in my discussions with Ruth:


    Here are excepts from a couple of my responses to Ruth:

    Caffeine is EXTREMELY harmful, in MANY ways! Yikes. I just made some recent posts on this too. First of all, it is almost the absolute WORST thing for anxiety, worst, to the point people need to avoid chocolate if they have anxiety (I suffered years ago and know first hand, love chocolate too, however there are numerous studies on it also). Caffeine all by itself for some people can cause anxiety, will heighten someone’s anxiety, panic attacks, now add in the whole Floxie induced anxiety and we are talking Atom Bomb. Debs has posted many times that due to the damage done to the Liver 450 function many people end up sensitive to Caffeine, and a lot more things. I’m actually starting to wonder if Caffeine also has the ability to cause cycles/relapses much like I know Fluoride does

    Caffeine is a drug, and messes with NT’s in the Brain. Yes, there are some reported benefits, but here again the cons outweigh the pros in many many experts opinions.

    Stimulants won’t be good for many with anxiety or adrenaline issues for obvious reasons

    A little more on Caffeine, Anxiety, and GABA, that some people don’t realize, there are much better sources and studies for this, but I’ll put this here since I found it responding to Charles below:

    Quote “Elevates Stress Levels and Interferes with GABA Metabolism

    How Caffeine affects Digestion. Coffee elevates the stress hormones cortisol, norepinephrine and epinephrine (adrenaline) that increase heart rate, blood pressure and activate the body’s ‘fight or flight’ response.

    Hormones like adrenaline are supposed to trigger when we are in danger and need to respond quickly. They are not meant to be ‘on’ all the time in the way drinking coffee can make them. Is that jittery rush caffeine gives us really energy? Wouldn’t a better word for it be anxiety? (ME=> YEP, how it feels for me and many)

    This increase in stress hormones can also inhibit the process of digestion, particularly in the stomach. This is due to the way the body takes blood and resources away from the digestive processes in preparation for a potential threat. A threat that never comes (though indigestion, bloating and flatulence problems may well).

    Coffee and the caffeine in it also play havoc with the metabolism of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA). GABA is found in both the brain and the gastrointestinal tract. In the brain, GABA plays an important role in regulating mood and stress management. In the gastrointestinal tract, GABA provides a calming effect on the whole system.

    Both of these functions are important for healthy digestion and indeed overall health and well being. Unfortunately, caffeine interferes with the way GABA binds to its receptors to provide that calming influence on both the brain and the GI tract (Ever tried slowing down and being very calm after a strong cup of java?).

    As a final parting shot to your stress levels, coffee can also cause an increase in the excretion of B vitamins, which are central to relaxation and stress management.”


    This bears repeating for Floxies: “Unfortunately, caffeine interferes with the way GABA binds to its receptors to provide that calming influence on both the brain and the GI tract”

    This is just the tip of the Iceberg too. Absolutely one of the worst things a Floxie can do if they have anxiety, probably often from Gaba receptor damage, which unfortunately many do.

    • Jason October 17, 2015 at 4:23 pm Reply

      Here is a little more info on caffeine I had saved from I believe, which had a LOT of research-based info I found when I was first Floxed:

      Lamarine (1994) notes caffeine is able to penetrate the blood brain barrier and directly influence the CNS. Ochs, Holmes, and Karst (1992) report as a chemical, caffeine is a methylated xanthine, a powerful central nervous system (CNS) stimulant which can arouse all levels of the brain and the skeletal muscles. Foreman (1996) adds within thirty minutes after ingestion, caffeine peaks in the blood levels and affects the CNS. It reaches its maximum effect in two hours. Caffeine has a half-life of approximately three hours; less than ten percent leaves the body unchanged. The effects have been found to last up to ten hours in some individuals.

      Stamford (1989) reports caffeine is a naturally occurring plant alkaloid that is absorbed quickly in the body. It is a diuretic, causing the loss of water, vitamins and minerals from the body which are essential for peak athletic performance. It increases heart rate, digestive secretions, respiration rate, metabolic rate, and urine output. It delays fatigue and increases restlessness. Stamford (1989) further reports peak levels are reached within 30 to 60 minutes after consumption.

      Murray (1988) describes in relation to exercise, caffeine dilates the bronchial tubes and increases respiration levels by stimulating the medulla respiratory center. The effect caffeine shows on performance is individualized. In some it may counteract decrements in simple vigilance task performance caused by fatigue. In others it may also increase auditory vigilance and visual reaction time. Caffeine does, though, have a negative effect on free recall and increases motor restlessness.

      Maisto, Galizio, and Connors (1995) report the most accepted explanation for caffeine’s acute effects is the adenosine hypothesis. They explain adenosine is a chemical that the body produces and is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. Adenosine receptors are in the CNS and peripheral nervous systems. Adenosine acts to result in behavioral sedation, regulation of oxygen delivery to cell, dilation of cerebral and coronary blood vessels, and production of asthma. Caffeine and the other methylxanthines occupy adenosine receptors and then block the action of that transmitter. This block of the transmitter results in a failure to sedate behavior and further enhance it.

      Yes, its a BIG iceberg

      • Jason October 17, 2015 at 4:24 pm Reply

        Coffee (decaf too) gives me wicked heartburn, as does chocolate

      • Jason November 7, 2015 at 8:35 am Reply

        Here is a post back from May I did on Caffeine again, apparently it passes the BBB like its wasn’t even there, here is good little short article I read recently about it for anyone interested, this really shows more reasons why caffeine can be such a bad idea for Floxies again:

        “All psychoactive drugs, including caffeine, achieve their effects by imitating or altering the release or uptake of neurotransmitters, the chemical messengers that direct how the neurons of the CNS interact with each other”

        “Caffeine achieves many of its effects by blocking the activity of adenosine, a neurotransmitter that affects almost every bodily system. Scientists have learned that, largely as a consequence of its blockade of adenosine receptors, caffeine also has profound effects on most of the other major neurotransmitters, including dopamine, acetylcholine, serotonin, and, in high doses, on norepinephrine.”

        Now look at this from another website:

        “Adenosine is a nucleoside that occurs naturally in all cells of the body. In the body, adenosine helps in cellular energy transfer by forming molecules like adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and adenosine diphosphate (ADP). In the brain adenosine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. This means, adenosine can act as a central nervous system depressant. In normal conditions, it promotes sleep and suppresses arousal.”


        So it screws around with ATP something that is already not functioning correctly in many Floxies, the CNS and of course increasing your risk of anxiety and insomnia two things many Floxies suffer from (not to mention heartburn, making your body much more acidic than it already is, withdrawal headaches, list goes on) Then there are effects on Methylation too if you drink Coffee since it is a Methyl Donor.

        Note that the article linked is mostly pointing to the “upsides” of consuming caffeine and conveniently omitted the many many downsides other than what I pointed out by linking info from another site.

    • Jason October 17, 2015 at 4:26 pm Reply

      From same link:

      Acidity, Heartburn, Ulcers & IBS, Gastritis, Crohn’s disease, Colitis

    • Linda January 15, 2016 at 8:15 pm Reply

      😦 I used to love coffee. I hate that this is one more thing taken away. Maybe if I ever feel all healed I will give it a try….

      • Jason January 15, 2016 at 8:46 pm Reply

        I drink decaf Cappuccinos (only as occasional “treat”, they are very acidic and still have Fluoride), one place I used to go I got reactions from the Fluoride every single time, and maybe the milk they used had too much Antibiotics in it, but I found a place near home that I have never got a reaction too, so quality of source for all ingredients, Water, Beans, Milk is definitely important.

        Caffeine was always a problem for me (yet one more indication I was Floxed before) and after someone is Floxed due to Liver P450 Enzyme damage it is just not a good idea at all. Probably eventually people might be able to tolerate it again, not sure if you miss the “ritual”, taste, or the Caffeine itself, Caffeine was never good for me I would “buzz” for 15 minutes if I had enough and then crash for hours later.

  7. Jason October 17, 2015 at 4:34 pm Reply

    Be careful with Green Tea for a few reasons, Caffeine of course, here are more stressing the importance of knowing ones Genes:

    Quotes: “There is some clinical evidence that Flavonoids in green tea inhibit COMT and increase androgenic tone (e.g. norepinephrine), says Dr. Kelly Heim”
    “Those who have symptoms of anxiety or sympathetic tone (e.g. increased heart rate) are not likely to suspect green tea as a culprit.”
    “Another potential problem with green tea is that it is clinically shown to decrease folate levels, and if you happen to have genetic defect of MTHF-R, then green tea will have an even larger effect on decreasing folate levels.”

    “Green tea contains a component called epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG). EGCG is an abundant pholyphenol in green tea and has been found to inhibit COMT.”

    “Research from the Department of Chemical Biology, Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy, at Rutgers University shows that green tea inhibits the enzyme COMT (Catechol O-methyltransferase). COMT is an important enzyme which degrades the excitatory neurotransmitters dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine. In simple terms, if you ingest a substance that inhibits the enzyme COMT, you will have higher levels of the neurotransmitters responsible for increasing anxiety.”


    Notice the article is citing “clinical evidence” and “research”. Note too that some of these Gene expressions are very common, including COMT.

    Folate depletion is VERY bad for folks with MTHFR and Methylation issues, which is HALF the population, and in my estimation a much greater % of Floxies, I won’t get into it here but have shared info on why Methylation is critical to health in some past posts

    There are in fact many causes for anxiety where Caffeine is just but one, though an extremely well documented one, there are hundreds if not thousands of studies on Caffeine, a very extensively studied subject (for a change, and yes some show benefits for sure). Then there are Hormonal imbalances like Cortisol, Adrenaline & more, Mineral & Electrolyte imbalances, Gene issues, Neural Transmitter imbalances, other Psychology issues, Candida & Leaky Gut and many more, just showing a small example why some things work for some people, and not others. Green Tea itself, too, is another, this info shows just a few reasons why, other than the just the caffeine. People can even react badly to L-Theanine, but in this case they are one of those exceptions since studies and thousands of anxiety users have found it helpful.

  8. Jason October 20, 2015 at 1:12 am Reply

    Without some tests, its really hard to know what will work for someone, and even then there are no guarantees, we are all a little different and therefore trying things slowly one at a time, to make sure they are tolerated, don’t cause bad reactions etc is usually a good rule of thumb. Once something is deemed to help and/or not harm, often working the dose up is necessary as when someone is deficient in something small doses often are not going to yield the desired effect. At this point too if they are natural products often times an additional one can be added to test, as bad interactions amongst natural products themselves is very uncommon, and sometimes more than one product is needed to help with a strong case in something like Floxie Anxiety.

    The first thing I did when I had anxiety, was cut off all the potential ‘triggers’ of it

    Diet can play a BIG role here (and almost always will in someone’s Health) for example getting enough protein can help, because quote “insufficient intakes of L-tryptophan, L-phenylalanine, or L-tyrosine are associated with increased symptoms of anxiety (Hood 2010; Toker 2010; Beacher 2010; Roiser 2008). Supplementation with L-tryptophan or 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) has been shown to elevate brain serotonin levels and enhance both mood and one’s sense of well being (Hood 2010; Toker 2010; Feurte 2001)”.

    Supplementing with those things can be a tricky business (and require some B Vitamins for proper conversions etc), and is not something I necessarily suggest, they work for some people, and again not for many others including myself, but getting them naturally in diet is something I try to do. Taurine is another Amino that many users have reported helps, but it too may not be without caveats at least for longer term use. Same goes for actual Gaba itself too, can help, long term could be questionable. Same goes for L-theanine.

    Many of the B Vitamins have been shown to help with Anxiety, my wife bought a product from Sisu called “B-Calm”, its not the best product with the best forms but not bad, and she finds it does help her but note it too has Rhodiola. Here is a little article on Niacin Note that some people can have very bad reactions with some of the B Vitamins due to Gene issues like MTHFR so once again caution is needed.

    Speaking “calm” again, Natural calm Magnesium has helped many people, Magnesium is needed for over 300 processes in the body, and Cipro is none to rob the body of Magnesium. Ancients Minerals Magnesium Oil is a great product that many people have been helped by, and absorbing through the skin is an excellent way to absorb Mag. I took about 7 different forms of Mag when I was Floxed, not all at the same time but several in rotation taking somewhere around 500-600mg/day

  9. Jason October 20, 2015 at 11:17 am Reply

    Ah yes, I knew I was forgetting something else, though the focus has been on Gaba receptor damage since we know Cipro does that, here is another consideration:

    If you have a mutation in the MTHFR C677T gene, you are also more likely to have anxiety and mood fluctuations. Lithium has been known for years to be useful for mood disorders.
    Despite all that is known about lithium’s impact on biochemical pathways, no one has described why lithium has its impact on mood. It is likely to be an effect on multiple pathways, since there are a number of enzymes in the body that are impacted by lithium.

    Lithium comes together with the MTHFR enzyme and methylation at COMT, the enzyme catechol-o-methyl-transferase. COMT uses methyl groups to do its job, and MTHFR is important in the production of methyl groups. COMT’s job is deactivating the catecholamine neurotransmitters, dopamine and nor epinephrine. Dopamine is a critical neurotransmitter
    for pleasure seeking motivation, focus and attention. Nor epinephrine is involved with modulating the impact of stress. (ME => see above for COMT, your adrenaline just keeps running keeping you anxious)

    Lithium increases the transport of B12 and folate into the cell. B12 and folate are pivotal substances in the production of methyl groups, which happens inside the cell.
    Lithium increases B 12 and folic acid transport into the cell which supports the production of methyl groups. Lithium may also increase the production of COMT, which then uses these methyl groups to deactivate dopamine.

    Dr. Amy Yasko noted that a number of adults and children using her protocol have low lithium levels,which may act to unbalance dopamine. Certain SNPs are associated with excess lithium excretion. These mutations are MTHFR C677T +, MTR+, SHMT+, and CBS+.

    You may have low lithium levels if you have one of these mutations. Lithium is an essential trace element. You must get it from your diet. The average intake of lithium from the diet
    should be up to 3100 mcg, or 3.1 mg, per day. What it takes to increase your serum lithium levels into the normal range can be significantly more.


    Note the Lithium the medical world would give you IS toxic, full of NASTY side effects, and not a recommended course of action for anyone IMO. I take 5mg Lithium Oratate from Swanson Health Products, which is a much more safer, natural and well tolerated form of Lithium.

    Note however, if someone has some of the Gene issues, it is not so easy as just taking some Lithium most if not all of the time

  10. Jason October 20, 2015 at 11:51 am Reply

    Tying together Gut Health, Gaba receptors, Adrenaline, Anxiety, Sleep, and much more

  11. Jason October 24, 2015 at 7:28 pm Reply

    Here is yet one more point of contention and complication.

    People with the CBS Gene mutation, which apparently is a fair number of people, are typically sensitive to Sulfur products. Taking Sulfur products for these people, can elicit a stress response in the body all by itself (I can attest to the accuracy of this, palpitations, constant Adrenaline and Cortisol, awful). Glutathione really important, is also a Sulfur product. Taurine, ALA, MSM, NAC, SAM-E, Milk Thistle, Epsom Salts, these are all great things and most naturally occurring, but once again will NOT be good for everyone, especially when you add Floxing into the equation.

    Here is a quote from one of Amy Yasko’s book’s about it, there are many more implications but this is the most relevant to Anxiety:

    “The net effect of excess CBS activity is to take sulfur
    groups and nitrogen groups that are complexed in the
    methionine cycle and free them up. Having relatively free
    sulfur and nitrogen moieties has downstream consequences.
    Sulfur is able to directly activate the stress/cortisol response
    which can lead to elevations in adrenaline and depletion of
    dopamine and nor epinephrine. A constant state of “flight or
    fight” as a result of chronic high levels of sulfur can also cause
    sympathetic versus parasympathetic overload. This cortisol
    response has a wide range of secondary effects in the body,
    including changes in magnesium/calcium, decreased levels of
    serotonin and dopamine, effects on the methylation cycle via
    phosphatidylserine levels, changes in gaba and glutamate as
    well as potentially depleting G6PDH and causing blood sugar

  12. Jason October 28, 2015 at 2:21 pm Reply

    Here is one good article for Anxiety with a lot of great tips on how to deal with it (less the drugs ones, of course):

    Never mind if you have GAD or not, these are great for anxiety of all types in my opinion.
    It sounds cliche and it’s very easy to say rather than do but its just very true and critical that “worrying” about things with anxiety, will only make the anxiety worse (I know I suffered anxiety myself for a few years). Focus on and read positive stories of healing, concrete things you CAN do and do not bother with the worse case scenario type posts or thinking, you can only do what can, just make sure you are doing that, anything else is out of your control you just can not worry about it. As long as you are being proactive (which in this case means you have a lot of reading to do) you are doing all you can.

    If you have faith all the better, as faith is a huge way to deal with fear and fear=anxiety, so strengthen your faith if you have it, pray, and along with being proactive put yourself in his care. Whether someone has faith or not, the Serenity prayer (which can be adapted for someone not having faith) is an extremely valuable tool for anxiety and much more. “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.” This can definitely help with anxiety for some people, in the case of Floxies, just make sure you are doing what you can.

  13. Jason October 28, 2015 at 8:01 pm Reply

    EFT has reportedly helped MANY people with Anxiety and many other ailments, here is one comment from Jodi on this website back in July:

    Jodi July 16, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    “I am a 49 year-old woman who was floxed in 2013. I was given 2 rounds of Cipro and 1 of Levaquin in a 6 month period, I was hit hard during the second round, and the Levaquin really did me in. After, I was riding the rolling coaster — as soon as I would start to feel better and think maybe I was out of the woods, I would crash again. Mostly a lot of pain in my achilles tendons and hamstrings. Skin itchy and suddenly weird spots everywhere — dermatologist just said it was my age, but why all of a sudden? Tinitus, extremely low energy, brain fog, dizziness, vision seemed to be getting worse, exercise intolerance (just getting my heart rate up a little would turn my face bright red and I’d feel like I was going to faint.) Chronic diarrhea — made worse by taking so many supplements — especially magnesium — to try to get better. My doctor would acknowledge it, but she had no idea what to do, My naturopathic doctor was focused on fixing the things that caused me to take the fluorquinolones to begin with. She also acknowledged that they were bad, and hoped the liver support, hormonal support, etc. that she was giving me for my chronic UTIs would help with this also,

    Reading a lot of what people have written on the internet, I started taking lots of supplements — nothing particularly different about my regimen than what others have posted. The magnesium threonate is definitely easier on the stomach. I also take Great Lakes Gelatin Collagen Hydrolysate which seemed to help a lot with connective tissue.

    I would have highs and lows, but as time dragged on, I was feeling less and less sure about my ability to continue to work. I was beginning to think about going on disability so I could just focus on my health.

    Then two things happened. I read a post that really helped me connect the symptoms to the mitochondrial DNA damage which leads to too many free radicals and oxidative stress. Stress also makes this worse, including the stress from having all these side effects from the FQs., So I started focusing on antioxidants, sleep and keeping stress levels low — even the stress that I felt like was “no big deal”.

    The next thing that happened was I discovered EFT (Tapping). I saw someone else here mentioned that and I wanted to second it. I had been looking into it actually for other people in my family for their anxiety and chronic pain issues. Then, I woke up one morning with a horrible migraine and was desperate for fast relief because I had a lot going on that day. I decided to try tapping (a bit skeptical, I must say) and after about 15 minutes, my migraine was GONE! I was completely amazed and honestly didn’t think it would work. I told my son about it, and he told me he was having pain in his leg from where he had knee surgery. I did it with him (this is the same morning) and he got some degree of relief, but two days later it was completely gone! I remember hearing that often, the real results occur two days later.

    I continued to tap throughout the week, at least once in the morning and before bed, Honestly, I try to remember to do it whenever I go to the bathroom — weird, I know, but hey, I’m just sitting there, alone…so why not make use of it? By the end of the week (and before, really –maybe even that day), I swear virtually every symptom I had was gone. The tendons, the extreme fatigue, the brain fog, dizziness, even my eyesight seemed better, more clear. I felt like myself again – and it is sticking.

    This was about a month ago, I keep tapping –on anything and everything I can possibly think of — and it helps a lot. I am becoming ever more aware of the relationship between our energetic body and stress and our physical and mental health. Something about tapping that uses basic techniques from psychology along with the energy meridian points from eastern medicine that is a winning combination –like a kill switch for stress. If you want AMAZING results, try tapping, You don’t have to believe in it for it to work (you just have to do it), and it takes about 15 minutes to learn how to do it. You can go see someone to help you do it, too. It is easy, you feel great pretty immediately, and you can use it for EVERYTHING — panic attacks, anxiety, work stress, weight loss, pain relief, relationships, grief, you name it,

    It sounds crazy, but it actually makes perfect sense. Our physical bodies, emotions, thoughts, and the energy system that connects everything are ONE thing devised of multiple, interconnected systems.. If you ignore the emotional and energetic parts of us, it triggers all kinds of feedback loops in our physical body. When you treat everything — this is the way of the ancient medicine practices–you can clear the past life events that still have an emotional hold on you and the stresses that keep you stuck and that your body is constantly reacting to, Our emotions and stress play a huge role in our body’s pain response.

    I’m not saying chuck everything else (however I have stopped taking my supplements this week and I still feel good). I’m just saying that this can neutralize a big cause of the stress that leads to the oxidative stress and all the symptoms we experience and especially the pain. Best of luck to everyone.”

  14. Jason October 28, 2015 at 9:37 pm Reply

    Ashwagandha is something I take daily, look at some of the benefits:

    Quote” It has a Cognition Promoting Effect and was useful in children with memory deficit and in old age people loss of memory. It was also found useful in neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson’s, Huntington’s and Alzeimer’s diseases. It has GABA mimetic effect and was shown to promote formation of dendrites. It has anxiolytic effect and improves energy levels and mitochondrial health. It is an anti-inflammatory and anti-arthritic agent and was found useful in clinical cases of Rheumatoid and Osteoarthritis.

    The available scientific data support the conclusion that Ashwagandha is a real potent regenerative tonic (Rasayana of Ayurveda), due to its multiple pharmacological actions like anti-stress, neuroprotective, antitumor, anti-arthritic, analgesic and anti-inflammatory etc. It is useful for different types of diseases like Parkinson, dementia, memory loss, stress induced diseases, malignoma and others.


    Anti-Stress, mitochondrial health, has GABA mimetic effect and was shown to promote formation of dendrites. Those are HUGE here, never-mind everything else reported in that study

  15. Jason November 1, 2015 at 1:11 pm Reply

    Here is another good article that recommends many of the most popular things

    As usual, a lot of these can have caveats, Kava Kava in particular has VERY conflicted info on it, even studies, and even carries potential documented health risks, yet it does help some people too.

    • Jason November 1, 2015 at 1:18 pm Reply

      Here is one interesting thread on some of the conflicting info, and that it could potentially even be good for Gaba Receptors.

      As for risks, Health Canada even banned it for awhile (as article above indicates) based on some studies, but apparently they changed their mind and allowed it again.

      I have not looked deeply into the conflicting info or risks, I looked at this subject years ago and when I noticed the risks figured I would go with other safer alternatives. That said, I think it warrants further research especially if there is potential good that can be done regarding the Gaba Receptors

    • Jason November 1, 2015 at 1:38 pm Reply

      Note what this article says about Relora:

      Relora – Relora or relora containing supplements, including Cortisol Control, by Complementary Prescriptions. Relora is an exciting new natural anti-anxiety and stress relief ingredient used to control stress-related eating and drinking that has the added value of being non-sedating with potential anti-depressant properties. Relora helps reduce anxiety by acting as a “precursor” to DHEA, the hormone that helps counteract the negative effects of the stress hormone cortisol. DHEA is not available in Canada, making Relora, or Relora containing supplements an excellent alternative.

      Relora was developed to improve mood, help stressed individuals relax, and to normalize the hormones related to stress-induced eating. Eighty percent (80%) of stressed adults studied feel more relaxed with Relora. Relora has also been shown in a pilot study to normalize cortisol levels in stressed individuals. Preliminary findings suggest that Relora can decrease the cravings for high fat, high sugar foods in stressed individuals, most likely due to its ability to normalize stress hormone levels that cause these cravings.


      So its a precursor to DHEA, a very powerful hormone. Hormonal therapy like many things without testing can cause imbalances, or make them worse so caution is needed.

      An important point here I wanted to stress is DHEA can help counteract Cortisol part of the bodies stress response, so can hopefully can help counteract the “wired and tired” feeling for some people, yet they can’t sleep, have Adrenal Fatigue etc.

  16. Jason November 3, 2015 at 11:57 pm Reply

    Poor guy has histamine intolerance and anxiety, insomnia and other issues, then gets prescribed, you guessed it, Cipro, ouch. Then he ends up with SIBO, and he believes in the end his Gut health WAS the cause of most of his issues from the beginning, which is actually true for many people, myself included. Good read

  17. Jason November 5, 2015 at 10:46 pm Reply

    Another reason to avoid drugs, Debs from this website posted this link before as she suffered from this, I don’t remember if she took these drugs or if it was only the Cipro, but just Cipro can cause it according to this:

    Note that the medications it lists for treatment won’t be a good idea for Floxie, esp Benzos (likely they’re all bad).

    • kristi November 10, 2015 at 6:53 pm Reply

      Jason, this describes exactly what i have been experiencing since taking an antibiotic 6 weeks ago. Do you know how i can reach Deb? I would love to speak with her about her experience and what may have helped her. I am having a terrible time.

      • Jason November 11, 2015 at 4:35 pm Reply

        HI Kristi. Sorry to hear about this. You can try contacting Lisa through the “contact” link at top of page, and ask her to send your email address to Debs with a description of what you are going through in hopes Debs will respond because she went through it too.

        Hopefully some of the many other things on this page might help too. I am taking Bacopa myself, and use Gaba when I feel I need it. Also Magnesium, for someone with extreme Anxiety I think many things combined will be needed to try and help, one of two is not going to be enough.

        Hang in there it will get better, avoid all stimulants like Coffee etc.

  18. Jason November 6, 2015 at 5:59 pm Reply

    Here is a neat little article written in layman terms that shows the importance of just 2 or 3 Gene SNP’s, how they affect Adrenaline, Inflammation, Anxiety, & more. It also shows how these things can affect a Floxie if they have them (like Insomnia can be even worse than usual, Anxiety too, even pain), and how they can just be difficult to live with in general, as I know too well

    Also lists a few basic do’s and don’ts. This article nails many points for me, and I’m sure some others will identify with things in there as well. I used to be a HUGE worry wort, racing thoughts could not shut my mind off, etc etc and this was all “Pre-Flox”

    • Jason November 6, 2015 at 6:44 pm Reply

      One more on how Genetics can tie into it here, 1 part of a 10 part series that ties many things together:

      The whole thing looks good, part 7 also ties in quite well to this.

      One thing if for sure, nothing says “root cause” like Genetics, the buck stops right there.

      (of course I mean if someone had these kinds of things before Floxing, which of course Floxing is almost certainly going to make worse for many)

  19. Jason November 24, 2015 at 11:51 pm Reply

    I’ve mentioned Magnesium 4 or 5 times here but really can NOT stress it enough, most of the World is deficient in the opinion of experts, now imagine a Floxie where we know for a FACT the drug strips the cells in the body of it. What does this show up as:

    – Heart Palpitations
    – Anxiety & Panic Attacks
    – Insomnia
    – Constipation
    – Muscle and Tendon Pain, cramps, twitching
    – Headaches

    And much much more. The focus of this article is on FQ Anxiety, and lack of Magnesium (along with Gaba/Glutamate) is a HUGE factor here.

    Do NOT expect to take a couple of pills a day of just any Mag here either and have this improve, no way that is going to cut it. I was Floxed in a “relatively minor” way and I was taking around 600mg of Mag in 6 or 7 different forms and I was STILL short at times (forget what blood tests say too that does not show what is going on inside the cells only in the blood itself). Ancient Minerals Magnesium Oil is transdermal and bypasses the GI system, this is critical IMO, also Natural Calm is an Ionic form so another good form to take, honestly not just Floxies with Anxiety (but especially) this is one of the most important things Floxies need to do IMO. I recommend this two AND a pill form or two combined to combat the one going deficiency and the stripping of MAG from the cells that the drug does

    • Jason November 25, 2015 at 12:08 am Reply

      Dr. M. Sircus and Dr. C. Dean are two experts on MAG and have both written books on it. Here is one good article from Dr. S

      The whole thing is good, here is just one relative quote

      “One of the principle reason doctors write millions of prescriptions for tranquilizers each year is the nervousness, irritability, and jitters largely brought on by inadequate diets lacking magnesium. Persons only slightly deficient in magnesium become irritable, highly-strung, and sensitive to noise, hyper-excitable, apprehensive and belligerent. If the deficiency is more severe or prolonged, they may develop twitching, tremors, irregular pulse, insomnia, muscle weakness, jerkiness and leg and foot cramps.

      If magnesium is severely deficient, the brain is particularly affected. Clouded thinking, confusion, disorientation, marked depression and even the terrifying hallucinations of delirium tremens are largely brought on by a lack of this nutrient and remedied when magnesium is given. “

      • Linda November 25, 2015 at 9:57 am Reply

        Wow, Jason, that reads like a side effects list for flq toxicity! I have been taking in 400 mg mag but maybe need to up it. My accupuncturist has been wanting to test for minerals but I have put it off because of the $. Maybe need to do it. Thanks for posting.

        • Jason November 26, 2015 at 7:48 pm

          Hi Linda your welcome 🙂 Let me put it this way, I am 90-95% healed, and at times my legs start to act up as I’m sure you have seen my say, after shower, exercise, etc MAG shuts this right down, its MAG being robbed, either by new toxins (Coffee, Shower, etc) or by toxins being mobilized (exercise, etc).

          Dr. Dean the other prominent expert on MAG other than Sircus thinks many people get “Floxed” in the first place because they are MAG deficient, and many of their symptoms manifest purely due to this deficiency which gets much much worse once Cipro is added to the picture. IMO this is a big over-generalization however there is also some truth in this statement as well, again at least IMO.

          The importance of this test: can not be overstated either, it shows closer what is going on in the cells than blood does, and has a nice big list of Toxic Metals and Minerals, and the price is really good too. (lowest I found) Your Naturopath will know what to do with results, Larry Wilson bases his ENTIRE healing approach on a Hair Test.

        • Linda November 26, 2015 at 8:23 pm

          The test my ND wants to do is a hair test, so may be the same one.

  20. Mark S November 29, 2015 at 7:24 am Reply


    Stupid me took a pre workout supplement two days ago loaded with stimulants. Since then I’ve experienced heart palpitations, shortness of breath, panic attacks, etc. I through that stuff in the garbage but do you think it robbed me of even more magnesium? Two days out and I still don’t feel like myself and wondering if I should up the MAG.

    • Linda November 29, 2015 at 12:05 pm Reply

      are you sure it was the supplements? hell, I have all that without taking anything. this is from webmd ( a site I only marginally trust) “too much magnesium to build up in the body, causing serious side effects including an irregular heartbeat, low blood pressure, confusion”

      • Mark S November 29, 2015 at 2:40 pm Reply


        I didn’t have any of these symptoms before I took the pre workout so I’m pretty sure that’s what caused it, or at least triggered it. I don’t think floxies will every have too much magnesium in the body. We are very deficient thanks to the FQ’s.

        • Jason November 29, 2015 at 11:50 pm

          Hi Mark. If you let me know exactly what you took I could probably better answer this question as knowing the mechanism of stimulation is important here I think. Many of the things in my numerous replies here might help including Mag but without knowing exactly what it has possibly done I’m not sure which to suggest for the best possibility of helping.

          My suspicion is its not necessarily the taking down of Mag here, its more likely Glutamate and Adrenaline issues, but this is only a suspicion. Do you have “butterfly feelings” in your Gut?

          If it was me, I would try SEVERAL things also, and spend some time reading through all the replies I have put here, links etc since a lot of this is going to apply to you now. Unfortunately once someone is “Floxed”, the chances of them reacting to just about anything goes up like 2000 times, so extra extra care is needed for everything especially pills, even good natural ones

  21. Jason January 1, 2016 at 1:39 am Reply


    Going to post this here as I don’t think there is a separate post for it and it is very related to anxiety, and some of the same things work to alleviate both.

    This article shares some important tips (references are not great in it, though, very incomplete) on using Iodine and Borax to chelate Fluoride from the body. The one thing this article incorrectly omits is the importance of taking Antioxidants in any detox

    The other important thing it points out is how it screws up the Pineal Gland (much like the Thyroid Gland) which screws up Melatonin production which causes Insomnia, this is well documented. So its at least a double whammy here, having the Pineal Gland screwed over AND having Gaba/Glutamate balance thrown off.

    I had very bad Insomnia at the beginning (I already had some pre-Flox too) and I
    took lots of Melatonin along with a few other things and they all helped a lot, BUT ONLY BECAUSE I TOOK MANY THINGS ALL AT ONCE. I have to stress this point, because any Floxies who think taking one or two things is going to curb Floxie Insomnia are sadly mistaken, this is a severe infliction, and thus severe measures need to be taken, high amounts of MANY supplements to try and counter the gross imbalances created by the Drug. (including robbing MAG, which is relaxing to system, so triple whammy, and probably more)

    So I am very sure I would have got a LOT less sleep without these things I took, and only because I took about TEN things total did they probably help. I tried taking less, and would have to get up after an hour and take something else, etc etc until I eventually learned that a LOT of stuff in large amounts was the only way I could get sleep when the Insomnia was at its worst, then I was able to slowly taper the amounts downward as I healed. Here is some of the things I took, probably in order of importance (sometimes several of them would be included in one supplement)

    – Magnesium definitely – it is calming, take LOTS and good forms!!!
    – Melatonin
    – Gaba & L-Theanine (by countering Glutamate the tired and wired type of Insomnia)
    – Cherry Tart juice (Melatonin, I took this ON TOP of Melatonin supplements)

    Notice those are addressing root causes, then I also used more things as well:

    – Valerian Root
    – 5-htp
    – L-Theanine
    – Passion Flower
    – Hyland’s Calms Forte (homeopathy)
    – Lavender aromatherapy
    – Lemon Balm
    – Hops
    – Catnip Herb

    • Jason January 1, 2016 at 1:40 am Reply

      Here are 18 things total for Insomnia, many I have listed already but a couple more here:

      Some of these things are bandaid fixes, some address the root causes, of course without knowing your own root cause its hard to treat it properly, I listed 3 possible and probable ones above, however there are many more possibilities, like: Other Neural Transmitter imbalances (Amino Acid’s can help) and other Hormone imbalances, both very common in today’s society and even more common amongst Floxies. Insomnia can also be caused by Electrolyte and Mineral imbalances, but for any of these additional things without knowing which deficiencies and imbalances someone has it is impossible to recommend anything.

      In my case the Sodium Bicarbonate I was taking for Acidic issues was causing me Insomnia (even pre-Flox I just didn’t know then), once I realized and cut way back on it and started balancing other Electrolytes and Minerals it helped a lot.

    • Linda January 1, 2016 at 2:01 am Reply

      Love the analogy–performs as a Trojan Horse to carry aluminum across the blood brain barrier. They mention tamarind which I had read about before, but found very difficult to find (for tea). And again one thing no mentioned is (and much easier to find) Brazil nuts in moderation—only one or two a day. Happy New Year Jason.

      • Jason January 1, 2016 at 10:00 am Reply

        Yes they have an affinity for each other, similar to ALA and Mercury in this sense

        Happy New Year to you as well!

    • Dee October 12, 2017 at 2:46 pm Reply

      Jason. I am 4 months into being floxed and my biggest issue is GABA receptor damage. You mentioned in this post about taking as many supplements as possible for insomnia. I am in a bind and would like your advice. I had a bad reaction to a half of a mg of melatonin! Heart rate went up, severe anxiety, didn’t sleep all night and the next day developed severe tinnitus. Before that I had insomnia but that melatonin reaction made it severe!! It is 4 weeks later and I am still battling insomnia, sudden wake ups at 4-4:30 and tinnitus that keeps me awake. I had the same reaction to half a pill of LTheanine! I am worried about my GABA receptors healing but I understand in most cases they do? Do you know how long on the average they take to repair?? I did not and do not take benzos. I am taking about 500-600 mgs of angstrom mag a day. Most of my physical symptoms are improving but I am hoping for GABA repair soon. Any suggestions???

      • Jason December 20, 2017 at 7:03 pm Reply

        HI Dee I do not check these forums anymore sorry. I have a couple of clients who reacted similarly to Melatonin, one common reason is when Cortisol is too low it can make many many supplements hard to tolerate, in your case it sounds like Adrenaline shot up to try and compensate.

        Floxing is a complicated matter in an already extremely complicated body, many many things can be done but it is very hard to give any kind of targeted accurate helpful advice just in forums, there are too many variables from person to person and only by properly accessing these for someone can good advice be given.

        People that want that kind of help from an expert on Floxing and much more can find more about me and my contact info in the 2nd comment under this article:

  22. Jason January 8, 2016 at 11:46 pm Reply

    I’m not sure if I have mentioned it yet, or not, but of course a destroyed GUT will lead to Anxiety (and Brain Fog, and 100 other issues).

    Pretty sure I have not posted this thread before, and it looks useful, this is a HUGE topic actually which could have its own article and another 60 comments under it:

    There are 4 pages of comments there, the main idea of course is not just take Probiotics, but to feed them and the other good ones HOPEFULLY remaining (Reading a lot about this, some permanent biome damage seems to be very likely, especially with something like the Quins) with Prebiotics:

    “I am getting pretty good results from taking high doses of PREBIOTICS, two or three times a day (along with some probiotics), and also cutting out most of the sugar from my diet.

    This prebiotic regimen has GREATLY reduced my anxiety levels, and and has also improved my mood (less depression), my brain fog, and increased my ability to concentrate. There are improvements in my energy levels as well. I believe that PREBIOTICS are much better than PROBIOTICS.”

    • Jason January 8, 2016 at 11:52 pm Reply

      As anyone who reads a bit there, and in other places will see, many people end up with a negative reaction, if they take a lot of Prebiotics. I believe this is because too many of the good bacteria are indeed “missing”, and too many bad ones are in their place, like in the Small Intestine where they don’t belong, AKA SIBO, a root cause of IBS and other like Gut issues. So instead of feeding the “good guys”, you end up feeding the “bad guys”, and end up with Gas, Bloating, etc etc

  23. Jason February 11, 2016 at 1:52 pm Reply

    This is a good short article showing the importance of Methylation in things like Anxiety

    • Jason March 1, 2016 at 12:34 pm Reply

      Of those 3 tips, I would recommend that number 2 be avoided by Floxies for the many reasons I have posted above

      • Jason March 1, 2016 at 12:43 pm Reply

        I should also mention that tip 3 of 3 needs to be done in MODERATION only. I see too many Floxies making the mistake of trying to get too much of a good thing, and even taking these baths everyday, which can CAUSE more issues than it solves

  24. […]  TREATING FLUOROQUINOLONE ANXIETY (Be sure to read the comments too!) […]

  25. Lisa November 7, 2016 at 7:51 pm Reply

    For those who struggle with insomnia and/or anxiety, this may be helpful.

    “Melissa officinalis (Lemon Balm) being both carminative and antispasmodic, is active specifically on that part of the vagus nerve which may interfere with the harmonious functioning of the heart and the stomach. Recent experiments at the University of Heidelberg have confirmed that the action of the volatile oil begins within the limbic system of the brain and subsequently operates directly upon the vagus nerve and all of the organs that are innervated by it. Accordingly, neurasthenia (complete nervous prostration), migraine, and nervous gastropathy are amenable to its healing power.”

    Just in looking through amazon, the reviews on this are interesting –

    • Jiwa November 11, 2016 at 4:07 pm Reply

      I have question. Does Fluoroquinolone depleted cortisol. Does cortisold Acetate administration could repair mitochondria?


  26. Siagian November 11, 2016 at 4:04 pm Reply

    I have question. Does Fluoroquinolone depleted cortisol. Does cortisold Acetate administration could repair mitochondria?


    • L July 4, 2017 at 9:16 am Reply

      Actually I think the reverse is true. I believe cortisol levels often rise with fluoroquinolone toxicity. This is not a good thing. You do not want high cortisol levels. This is what happens when you are under a lot of stress. It is responsible fo the “fight or flight” we go into when we sense danger. Among other things, it suppresses immunity and when too high can effect the heart and inflammation.

    • Jason December 20, 2017 at 7:10 pm Reply

      Yes, getting Floxed can cause people to be in a chronic low Cortisol state, this is the most common situation, some people will go through a high Cortisol state as well, sometimes before the low state. Cortisol affects many bodily systems but not the Mitochondria from my memory, at least, not directly, someone with chronic low Cortisol will be affected in numerous ways that could effect the Mitochondria indirectly however.

      For Mitochondria, see my comments under this article:

  27. Tim July 4, 2017 at 5:27 am Reply

    Hi all. I took a 2-week course of Cipro in November 2016 and while I did not have an immediate toxic reaction, I developed tendinopathy in both knees in the months shortly after. After reading about the benefits of magnesium for FQ toxicity, I started taking 150 mg of mag. citrate. Shortly after this I experienced a severe reaction which included symptoms such as pounding heart, nausea, anxiety, dry mouth and dizziness. After 2 weeks I stopped the mag as I was still getting the symptoms. I am wondering whether taking the mag triggered some sort of detox reaction and the symptoms were caused by the FQ somehow having a new effect on me. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    • L July 4, 2017 at 9:07 am Reply

      I really doubt it TIm. That is a VERY low dosage. At my worst, I was taking 800 mg. Magnesium is something you really NEED to take because flqs deplete it and it is needed for nerve function and so much more. What you are experience is sadly a normal pattern. When I was first floxed I had numbness in my fingers and toes and blurred vision and floaters. In the following weeks I experience excruciating back pain, popping in my joints and gut issues. In the weeks after THOSE I started gasping for breath, I dropped 36 pounds, and experienced pelvic area pain and pressure. All told, I ended up with over 30 side effects in the following months. Then two 1 1/2 years later I had torn meniscus (I think that was the popping I had experienced earlier, but my knees didn’t go out until then.) You need to go back on the mag an I would say at a much higher dose. While I took dozens of supplements, vitamin E was not one of them, however that is another one that Dr jay Cohen recommends taking right away. His book “How to Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The Worst Medication Disaster in US History”) Also, while there is nothing wrong with mag citrate, it is one of the ones most likely to give you diarrhea in high doses. Good choices are mag orotate, mag threonate)

      As for the tendinopathy in the knees, Cipro eat through connective tissue: collagen, ocular vitreous gel, muscle, etc) Since I did not want surgery (and long term prognosis after surgery on the knees is not great) and I definitely will never take any steroids again, I had prolozone injections in both knees. THis helps your own body repair itself. It takes at least 6 months for that to happen. So far so good! There is prolozone and prolotherapy and there is a difference between the two, but I am not exactly what.

      Anyhow, I urge you to go back on the magnesium.

    • L July 4, 2017 at 9:20 am Reply

      also be sure to be on a good multi-strained, 50 billion unit probiotic. The gut effects EVERYTHING, even things seemingly unrelated and this stuff just destroys the good gut microbiome. Avoid fluoride (in water too) and gmos as well as meats that are not organic (so you don’t accidentally get more antibiotics.) There are so many supplements that help with different aspects, if you scroll through older posts you will see what has helped others.

    • Jason December 20, 2017 at 7:14 pm Reply

      Tim, not a detox reaction, but I have seen many people have this kind of reaction to Magnesium unfortunately. This is too complicated to go into on a forum, see my post above on December 20, 2017 at 7:03 pm in reply to Dee for how this should be handled.

  28. Mary November 17, 2017 at 8:04 am Reply

    This question is for Jason or anyone who might know the answer. According to some of your earlier posts AI gather more GABA is a good thing yet Glutamine which ultimately helps produce more GABA is a bad thing. I don’t get it. I know there were scientific articles cited but I need it explained very simply. Glutamine is good for the gut and I would really like to take some but don’t want to sabotage my nervous system.

    • Jason December 20, 2017 at 7:40 pm Reply

      I don’t think I mentioned more Gaba being a bad thing, too much Glutamate is bad

      As for Glutamine, the bottom line other than what was went into above is it can be beneficial to take for a few things but not everyone can tolerate it at any given time for a few reasons, so it will be trial and error like many supplements and even foods. Like with anything like this, start slow, low dose, no other new things for 3 days, see how it goes.

  29. Aaron March 1, 2018 at 10:50 pm Reply

    I find my worse ongoing symptom is depression I can’t seem to shake it despite now being 6 months post floxing, would this most likely be GABA related as well you think?

  30. Amee Fornea May 27, 2018 at 4:12 pm Reply

    Treating Fluoroquinolone Anxiety | Floxie Hope

    […]Psychoeducation – gives info for fogeys and children about physical abuse, sexual abuse, and other traumatic experiences and their influence on children.[…]

  31. Smibo June 8, 2018 at 1:31 am Reply

    Do you have a lifetime for psychological Flox Damage? I am 14 Months postflox and the side effects were anxiety, dizziness and mild depression and this inner vibration. At the beginning there were panic attacks.
    How long did your symptoms stay?

    • L June 8, 2018 at 8:02 am Reply

      My psychological ones were severe..terrifying anxiety, paranoia, depression and I thought of suicide all day every day for months. The extreme anxiety hung around the longest. That lasted somewhere between one and 1 1/2 years. I know it’s very difficult to cope with, but it does get better. Some things that help n the moment: meditating (honestly, early on that was impossible); going for a walk. This really did help. It helps your body to switch from sympathetic to parasympathetic mode. The first is your “fight or flight” response, and comes in handy if you are being chased by a bear….but not good when there is no actual threat. Breathing exercises are also good for this. Inhale slowly to the count of four,and then exhale slowly for a count of 8. This also helps to put you into parasympathetic, which helps tamp down on the anxiety.

  32. Smino June 8, 2018 at 12:25 pm Reply

    Thank you alot. God bless you!

  33. Debrael Roberts October 9, 2018 at 4:38 pm Reply

    I’ve been given a one-time-only dose of Valium to calm my anxiety and get some good sleep the night before a pain a management procedure, and I felt so good I didn’t need any the next morning prior to the procedure. It is disturbing, however, just how much better I felt…for the first time since my slow-withdrawal, I finally felt like I’d been restored to what was my personal ‘normal’, and even better…but, I shouldn’t need a Valium pill to feel normal again. I only wish a vitamin or mineral, or some other easily obtained supplement could give me the same effect!

    • L October 9, 2018 at 4:46 pm Reply

      I hear you! At my worst, when I was near-blind, gasping for breath, unable to walk without help, in excruciating pain—I had a crown come out. The thought of visiting a DDS at that point was absurd, but I had to. And since I was struggling so much just to breathe, I couldn’t imagine having to hold my mouth open. I got an RX for Xanax and it got me through. I prefer to never take any pharmaceuticals again, but you have to do what you have to do. (I also need it to fly, thanks to claustrophobia.) My feeling is if you need it on occasion, go for it.

  34. Bj January 4, 2020 at 9:33 am Reply

    If anxiety surrounding Cipro, it was because of the gaslighting and meanness of the doctors I went to with side effects as well as the lack of concern from my now ex-husband.

  35. Danny January 31, 2020 at 5:40 pm Reply

    I was prescribed Cipro for prostrate infection for two weeks, twice a day 500mg pill. After the four day I had pain in back and legs , constipation, imsomnia, a burning feeling inside my body and tremors in my arms, a fog brain . I didn’t know what’s going on . Two days latter I was on ER with a misdiagnosed of depression.
    Five months latter, I’m taking sleeping pills, pills for my constipation, pills for depression, my arms and legs are barely moving and I’m always tired. I was a healthy individual before Cipro. Doctors ran all kinds of tests and didin’t find anything wrong. I also lost about 18 pounds and I am always feeling cold…I’m very susceptible to cold weather…Cipro ruined my life.

    • L January 31, 2020 at 5:51 pm Reply

      You need to get off the pharmaceuticals. Find a good naturopath or integrative MD to help you. Wean yourself off the sleeping pills. For your gut…bone broth, a good probiotic, digestive enzymes, eat clean, lots of organic frutis and vegetables. For constipation, try psyillium husk. Avoid fluoridated anything including water.

  36. The Anxiety Summit 2020 | Floxie Hope November 1, 2020 at 8:48 am Reply

    […]  TREATING FLUOROQUINOLONE ANXIETY (Be sure to read the comments too!) […]

  37. […] is common among “floxies,” and it can be severe. The post, Treating Fluoroquinolone Anxiety, goes over some suggestions as to how to deal with it. Magnesium and uridine supplements helped me […]

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