The Term “Flox”

When I tell people about this site they often ask me what the terms flox, floxed, and floxie mean. I am not a lexicographer by any stretch, and these are not official definitions, but here are my answers:

Flox (noun): A shorthand term for the multi-symptom, chronic illnesses brought on by fluoroquinolone antibiotics that are referred to as Fluoroquinolone toxicity or Fluoroquinolone Associated Disability (FQAD).

Flox (verb): To be afflicted with fluoroquinolone toxicity or FQAD. The term “flox” is typically used in the past tense as “floxed,” as in, “I was floxed by cipro in 2011.”

Floxie (noun): A person who suffers from fluoroquinolone toxicity or FQAD.

The term “flox” comes from the names of the fluroquinolone antibiotics. All the fluoroquinolones contain “flox” in their names – ciproFLOXacin, levoFLOXacin, moxiFLOXacin, gatiFLOXacin, oFLOXacin, etc. As communities of victims of these drugs formed, people found it easier to say, “I’ve been floxed” or, “I’m a floxie” than to say, “I am going though a multi-symptom illness brought on by fluoroquinolone antibiotics.” Perhaps the term “FQAD” would have been just as easy to say as “flox,” but “flox” preceded “FQAD” by more than a decade and the term has stuck.

The earliest written record of the term “flox” that I can find is in Stephen Fried’s 1998 bestselling book, “Bitter Pills: Inside the Hazardous World of Legal Drugs.” In it, Fried describes his wife’s severe, primarily psychiatric, adverse reaction to ofloxacin, a fluoroquinolone antibiotic. Fried noted that the community of people who had been hurt by this class of drugs referred to themselves as “floxies” and spoke of their condition as being “floxed.” (EDIT/NOTE – Please see Mr. Fried’s comment below for correct information about the early usage of the term “flox.)

Most journal, and even news, articles don’t use the terms “flox” or “floxie.” They typically refer to the constellation of symptoms that “floxies” deal with as “adverse reactions to fluoroquinolone antibiotics” or they don’t refer to the syndrome as a whole at all, rather, they’ll list the symptoms that their featured victim suffers from, and then note that the victim attributes those symptoms to fluoroquinolone antibiotics. A couple news articles have used the term FQAD, as it was coined by the FDA, and is seen as a bit more official than “flox.”

In online communities new terms are often coined, and they gain traction in those communities. “Flox” is one of those terms. The terms “flox” and “floxie” are primarily used on the internet in support groups for victims of fluoroquinolones. The biggest Facebook group for victims of fluoroquinolones is The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Group, and their url is https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/ (note the “floxies” in the url – it’s easier than https://www.facebook.com/groups/FluoroquinoloneToxicityGroup). Additionally, this site is one of the more popular blogs about fluoroquinolones, and it’s called Floxie Hope. The terms “flox” and “floxie” are used throughout blogs and support groups dedicated to fluoroquinolone toxicity.

People within the “floxie” groups and communities know these terms and what they mean and imply. The people in the “floxie” community know when someone says that they are “severely floxed” that it means that person is suffering from more symptoms than they can count or name and that they are likely bed or house bound as a result of their fluoroquinolone-induced injuries. Of course, everyone’s experience is different, and people are encouraged in these communities to further describe their pain and their experience, but it’s far easier to say, “I’m severely floxed” than it is to list dozens of symptoms then say that those symptoms were caused by fluoroquinolone antibiotics.

Some people really hate the terms “flox” and they particularly hate the term “floxie.” They see the terms as silly and flippant, and they see it as disrespectful to those who are suffering from fluoroquinolone toxicity. Fluoroquinolone toxicity IS a serious and severe illness, and it should be taken seriously by doctors, patients, regulators, and everyone else. It is not a joke, or something to be taken lightly. It is a life-altering, often disabling, syndrome. Fluoroquinolones have maimed and killed people, and fluoroquinolone toxicity should be taken as seriously as other multi-symptom, chronic, mysterious illnesses like M.S., Lupus, Lyme Disease, M.E./CFS, etc.

Neither “flox” nor “floxie” are particularly serious terms, and I empathize, and even agree with, those who see it as minimizing the seriousness and severity of fluoroquinolone toxicity.

But… sometimes terms just stick. Both flox and floxie are terms that have resonated with people in the community, and they have stuck. Many people find it easier to describe their illness as being “floxed” than to describe it any other way. It resonates with people more to say, “floxies unite!” than it does to say, “victims of fluoroquinolone antibiotics come together!” For the purposes that the the terms are used, they work well for expressing what people want and need to say. I don’t think that anyone who uses the terms “flox” or “floxie” mean any disrespect to the illness or the people suffering from it. In fact, most of the people using the terms are either victims of fluoroquinolones or those who love a victim of fluoroquinolones.

I am writing this post on a site called Floxie Hope, so I am, of course, somewhat biased. I like the term “floxie” and it has become part of my brand (if you can say that a blog has a brand). I think that the term sticks in people’s minds and it resonates with them. There is an understanding of what it means–at least within our community. The naming of this site was somewhat accidental–I was trying to figure out how to create a web site and this was supposed to be my place-holder site until I figured out the mechanics of blogging, then I was supposed to think of a more well thought out name for the official site, but then this site got rolling while named Floxie Hope, and 5.5 years later, it’s still going and here we are.

I hear the people who think that “flox” and “floxie” aren’t serious enough terms to connote the severity of fluoroquinolone toxicity. In a lot of ways, I think they’re right. BUT, I don’t think that the term has held this community back. We have made a lot of progress over the last decade. We still have a lot of work to do, but millions of people have become aware of fluoroquinolone toxicity and fluoroquinolone dangers over the last decade, and part of the momentum of this community is our shared language and our shared understanding of terms like “flox.”

The terms “flox” and “floxie” are ingrained in our community, and they are likely here to stay as long as fluoroquinolones are hurting people (I hope for the extinction of the term through the strict limiting of the drugs – but we’re a long way from that and it’s certainly a matter for another post). I think that the terms are doing more good (through ease of communication, bringing people together, and having terms that resonate with many) than harm.

I am hopeful that the terms “flox” and “floxie” will someday be so well understood and accepted that they make it into the dictionary. The only criteria for words making it into the dictionary is that they appear in edited text, so I actually hope that more journalists start using the terms “flox” and “floxie” in their articles. Having the terms “flox” and “floxie” in the dictionary would be wonderfully validating, and it would help to increase awareness of fluoroquinolone toxicity.

When I describe this site, I often try to tell the back-story and give the long explanation of how I was hurt by ciprofloxacin. Sometimes the person who I’m talking to says something like, “Oh, you’ve been floxed – that happened to my sister-in-law.” The word is getting out, and the terms “flox” and “floxie” are spreading. It’s a good thing. Awareness is one of the most important steps toward change, and short, easy-to-remember terms like “flox” and “floxie” help people to become aware of the dangers of fluoroquinolones.

*****

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27 thoughts on “The Term “Flox”

  1. L January 13, 2019 at 10:58 am Reply

    I have no problem with the word floxie. It’s shorthand. I don’t want to continually say “a fluoroquinolone victim” or ” a victim of cipro.” Not quite sure why anyone would have an issue with it, other than perhaps the spelling (maybe floxee instead of floxie) Then it would be no different than say assignee, payee, muggee, etc

  2. Steve W. January 13, 2019 at 3:57 pm Reply

    Thank You Thank You Thank You our Great Lady. Kudos again from here.

  3. Patrick Jordan January 13, 2019 at 4:25 pm Reply

    I thought “Floxie Lady” was a song by Jimmie Hendrix…
    Please don’t tell me to sit at the back of the Flox Bus, but I came here due to listmembers who were floxed, yet I was given some pretty nasty anti-malaria medication that was the parent of the drugs we focus on here. It has always been my intent to cross over the damage done by malarial drugs with Flox since I see everything in a Continuum.

    • Daniela January 14, 2019 at 6:02 pm Reply

      There are FQ floxies who take issue with others using the term who have actually been injured by different medications. Though I am the quintessential, obviously floxed person, I have no problem with other kinds of floxies, because I believe them when they say they are suffering from this same constellation of symptoms. It is absolutely crazy that not just fluoroquinolones but other medications are also giving people similar if not the same kind of disability and suffering.

      I think unity is much more important. We’ve all been hurt by pharmaceuticals that were developed and employed incorrectly, and maybe should not have been made at all. And I don’t see any problem with someone calling themselves a floxie even if they took plaquenil or what have you. Maybe the term started with FQs but I welcome everyone who is having these problems. We are more similar than we are different!

      • L January 14, 2019 at 6:31 pm Reply

        well it really only applies to fluorquinolone drugs, so that could get confusing. the floxie comes from the “flox” in the drug name eg ciproFLOXacin. So while they may also suffer similar side effects from a non-fluoroquinolone drug, the mechanics of how may or may not be the same. By the same token, many people with lyme disease suffer the same side effects. I would not call them floxies either.

      • Patrick Jordan January 14, 2019 at 8:03 pm Reply

        To the very point you are raising:
        https://www.hopkinslupus.org/lupus-treatment/lupus-medications/antimalarial-drugs/
        “Anti-malarials are particularly useful in treating discoid lupus, subacute cutaneous lupus, and mouth sores associated with lupus; they are also effective in treating rheumatoid arthritis and Sjogren’s syndrome. However, anti-malarials are not a sufficient treatment for more severe lupus symptoms such as kidney disease and nervous system or blood vessel involvement. When lupus spreads to these organs, immunosuppressive medications are usually added to help minimize irreversible injury.”
        As I said: my flock were floxed so we have a direct connection to the drug for them, but the sentinel person that led us here is a woman who was diagnosed with Lupus and when we looked into it we found that there can be a false-positive test for SYPHILIS that led us to LYME that then swallows its own tail with the citation above since Lyme is a useless word that is falsely hammered onto borelliosis but ignores the BABESIA (northern malaria) that would explain the half-usefulness of anti-malarials in that context and would then swing us back around to the fact that the FQs had their origins in malarial compounds. Full Circle. What I call: Continuum. Without continuum thinking the world will go round in circles with a mouthful of fur from their own tails and get nothing done. Expanding the scope of this FAMILY of compounds (so as to not be denominational and say: “I’m an FQ!” “I’m a CQ!” “Begone, thou infidel!”) we can actually spread out the net to see that the absolutely meltdown behavior and health of military from the wanton excess of anti-malarials now has an explanation due to the chemistry of a Family of drugs:
        “mefloquine and post traumatic stress.pdf”
        I won’t provide the direct link in case people want to avoid cookies from the US Army on their computers, but you can access the material easily enough from a search.

        Regarding “L’s” comment about Lyme: I would be extremely curious as to why Flox Folks went to the doctor in the first place to be poisoned with a chemical of last resort. We have blown the cover off of Lyme and its constellation of tickspit diseases, where Lyme (implying JUST Borellia) is a Great Imitator like they used to label Syphilis, but what they are really covering up is the horrors of Bartonella and the connective tissue meltdown; Babesia; Anaplasma, and Filarial worms at the very least that cause frank disease that have names but are falsely labeled: Etiology Uknown. This is why Continuum will save us where all other efforts have failed. Could it be that the thing that drove many people in to a doctor to get floxed might not have originated from the constellation of organisms and the diseases that come with them to meet with the drug in a perfect storm of disaster? Lettuce not forget that once you have hit a bug with antibiotics it goes stealth as a Cell Wall Deficient form and will still eat you alive but the immune system cannot see it so there may be ‘remission’ of the gross symptoms while the slow etching is being done. My people and I have been working on this for three months non-stop.

        • L January 14, 2019 at 10:43 pm

          Ok Patrick, gotta say, you lost me. I am not quite sure of the point you were making but this was my point (or part of it,) by way of example. If you go to an ND or an integrative doctor, or some other enlightened medical practitioner who is aware of flq toxity, and you say that you were “floxed,” but in fact you were injured by a different drug, which has different mechanisms of damaging the body, that would not really be in your best interest. That is why I say that term is peculiar (even though others may experience similar side effects from other drugs) to the fluoroquinolone family.

        • Patrick Jordan January 15, 2019 at 1:43 am

          None of what I say will be critical of you or our conversation. Let me begin by saying that I have the greatest disrespect for ‘doctors’ of any variety. Nearly all of them attempt to inflict the knowledge that they paid to gain, and even the ones who might have good intentions are so mired in memes that they have no touch with reality. So I would expect none of them to have an approach that is based on synthesis rather than the tired old idea of one labeled problem due to one labeled cause. Within the scope of what we are talking about there is consensus that Bartonella alone can destroy connective tissue as does autoimmune scurvy from vaccines and FQ and I hope to demonstrate CQs. That gives three different but CONCURRENT reasons for people’s connective tissue to melt down because ‘Lyme’ is pandemic, there is no way to avoid cats or people with cats (even horses carry bartonella and humans are petri dishes of fully contagious lyme), autoimmune scurvy can come from any vaccine and no one born after the 1970s is exempt from getting a vaccine at a hospital birth whether anyone knew it or not; THEN you add the FQ poisoning and there is no peculiarity to any of it. It is total tissue meltdown from a minimum of three causative agents and my personal experience is clear that NO AlterNOTive practitioner has the capacity to understand what I just said let alone has in place or can formulate a response to deal with it. Dot-starers as a dear friend calls them. My point is that nothing happens in isolation so it will never just be FQ toxicity at issue. This is why I was curious about what brought people into the loving arms of the poisoners to begin with. If there was an infectious disease (and I just labeled the falsely labeled Lyme as a pandemic) then Flox was the icing on a cake that was made out of gasoline and the candles are being blown out with a flamethrower.

  4. Stephen Fried January 15, 2019 at 5:35 am Reply

    Actually, the term originally appeared in my first magazine story on quinolones and antibiotic safety, “Less than One Percent,” in Philadelphia magazine in April 1993. (Ironically, that is the same month my first book “Thing of Beauty” was published–and that book injected another word I made up into the English language: “fashionista.” It was a good month for word creation in the Fried/Ayres household.) Diane and I and other floxies were on Oprah in 1994–after one of her producers had a reaction to floxin–and they used the word on the air. By the time my book came out in 1998, people who had these reactions were using it: one had “floxed” put on her license plate for 1997 (I know this because her kids later asked her to get rid of the plate because her illness affected her driving, and she sent it to me.)

    • L January 15, 2019 at 9:19 am Reply

      Well hello! Your name has come up often here. (I personally contacted you about co-authoring a book on my journey through this hell, and you very graciously declined.) Thank you so much for your input. And thank you for perhaps being the first to shed a light on these toxins.

    • Lisa January 15, 2019 at 9:08 pm Reply

      Thank you so much for your input, Mr. Fried! I edited the post to refer people to your comment for the correct information. I’m glad that I credited the right person, if not the right publication. I hope that referring people to your comment is sufficient as a correction. And, of course, thank you for Bitter Pills and all you have done for the “floxie” community!

      • L January 15, 2019 at 9:25 pm Reply

        I second that!!! Thank you Mr. Fried!

      • lisalisa12years January 30, 2019 at 12:14 am Reply

        I luckily found this site in 2011 ,5 years after being floxed 6 times in three years. I’ve always received posts, unable to reply. It’s almost 13 years since being floxed. I learned so much here and also by researching on my own. I believe I was too damaged to completely ever heal. I have good and bad days. Sometimes I’ll have a great day. That’s rare. I’m here today to add additional injuries that have begun happening within the past three years. My teeth have been becoming soft. I’ve always had very strong teeth. I’ve also developed an issue with my heart. First regurgative valves and now my left ventricular function was 55% . before levequin As most of us I was extremely healthy and active. Very strong. I was happy. I’ve found myself sinking into depression , unable to get out of bed. I am angry as hell. Not just because this happened to me , but because it’s still happening to others. I want to scream at the top of my lungs each time I see someone say I’m 18 months out ?????? How has this happened. Why is it still happening to young healthy people ? Because Doctors have been to lax on their updating themselves on the poison they’re pushing. I’m sorry for venting. I know you all understand how frustrating this can be. I quit smoking 6 years ago I blew up with water and literally almost drowned. Until given diuretics. I believe whatever bit of levequin was left in my body was attacking the nicotine. When I quit smoking it began attacking me with a vengeance. I felt totally refloxed. My ankles have distorted themselves. They have gone back to normal except for the area of the top tendon. Thankful not to have torn Achilles tendons. Both shoulders totally shredded. To many issues to list. Magnesium C Since Calcium with D3 Serrapeptase I also do a shake that has 1950mg of nutrients to keep the liver healthy. Plus so many other vitamins. I use subliguals to ensure they go through my cheek into my bloodstream. I can say I felt almost normal for awhile. Yet the minute I stop doing this just to function. It’s a nightmare. I want to know opinions on signing legal documents when floxed for over a year, not knowing anything about the nightmare waiting for me. I felt myself besides horrible nightmares, tremors and the brain fog. I want to know how much levequin could have effected me that first year and a half. I signed legal documents to have work done on my house. My sister was dying from cancer and I signed paperwork. I know our brains are effected.. Does anyone know when that happens. The insomnia and all the things that were annoying. That I pray now we’re the worst things. 13 years of this I’m so tired of spending thousands of dollars on vitamins and minerals and supplements. I still even take colostrum 3 x,s a week. That really helped me joanneg. Still use pro biotic with oregano oil capsules anytime I feel a cold trying to get me. It still works. Lots of things still work. I’m just so very tired of it all. I see they figured out how it’s hurting people so badly. It’s able to get into the mitrocobia of the cells. I’m praying they’ll find out how to reverse it before to much longer. Even just stop it from doing more damage. I’m trying so damm hard to get better. I’ve done everything possible. I was also taking glutothione reduced. It actually helped somewhat. Point is all of these vitamins and minerals and supplements we take. Yet they barely get into our bloodstream. I need a Dr in NJ who knows how to help with this. Anyone please message me if you know of any. Jersey Shore area Thank you for listening. Praying for you all to get as healthy as possible. This should never had happened. Never. Fluroquonolones need to be banned Worldwide. They hurt millions to save a handful leaving them asking why they chanced it. I know if I was told life or death and I had to ingest levequin Cipro Avelox I would absolutely say a Hard NO and take my chances. It’s not enough that it physically destroys. It mentally destroys. The worst medication disaster in U.S. History… God Bless you Dr J Cohen for bringing this toxic poisons to light. Medicines supposed to help people not slowly kill them. Wishing you all the best possible health your able to get back too. I believe knowing what this can do sooner actually enables our bodies to flush it out faster. It also doesn’t begin to hurt us until you No longer take it. Years later it’s still hurting me.
        Floxed is the perfect word. I could think of another that wouldn’t be polite. Thanks for letting me vent. Making no sense. 12 years a blur. Health to all.

        • haircutmeganomics March 9, 2019 at 5:52 pm

          Hi Lisa – I am a filmmaker based in NYC working on a documentary about floxing. I’d love to speak with you and possibly share your experiences in my film. If you’re interested, please email me at floxeddocumentary@gmail.com. Thanks, Megan

        • L March 9, 2019 at 6:00 pm

          so glad you are doing this!

  5. lisalisa12years January 30, 2019 at 12:02 am Reply

    I luckily found this site in 2011 ,5 years after being floxed 6 times in three years. I’ve always received posts, unable to reply. It’s almost 13 years since being floxed. I learned so much here and also by researching on my own. I believe I was too damaged to completely ever heal. I have good and bad days. Sometimes I’ll have a great day. That’s rare. I’m here today to add additional injuries that have begun happening within the past three years. My teeth have been becoming soft. I’ve always had very strong teeth. I’ve also developed an issue with my heart. First regurgative valves and now my left ventricular function was 55% . before levequin As most of us I was extremely healthy and active. Very strong. I was happy. I’ve found myself sinking into depression , unable to get out of bed. I am angry as hell. Not just because this happened to me , but because it’s still happening to others. I want to scream at the top of my lungs each time I see someone say I’m 18 months out ?????? How has this happened. Why is it still happening to young healthy people ? Because Doctors have been to lax on their updating themselves on the poison they’re pushing. I’m sorry for venting. I know you all understand how frustrating this can be. I quit smoking 6 years ago I blew up with water and literally almost drowned. Until given diuretics. I believe whatever bit of levequin was left in my body was attacking the nicotine. When I quit smoking it began attacking me with a vengeance. I felt totally refloxed. My ankles have distorted themselves. They have gone back to normal except for the area of the top tendon. Thankful not to have torn Achilles tendons. Both shoulders totally shredded. To many issues to list. Magnesium C Since Calcium with D3 Serrapeptase I also do a shake that has 1950mg of nutrients to keep the liver healthy. Plus so many other vitamins. I use subliguals to ensure they go through my cheek into my bloodstream. I can say I felt almost normal for awhile. Yet the minute I stop doing this just to function. It’s a nightmare. I want to know opinions on signing legal documents when floxed for over a year, not knowing anything about the nightmare waiting for me. I felt myself besides horrible nightmares, tremors and the brain fog. I want to know how much levequin could have effected me that first year and a half. I signed legal documents to have work done on my house. My sister was dying from cancer and I signed paperwork. I know our brains are effected.. Does anyone know when that happens. The insomnia and all the things that were annoying. That I pray now we’re the worst things. 13 years of this I’m so tired of spending thousands of dollars on vitamins and minerals and supplements. I still even take colostrum 3 x,s a week. That really helped me joanneg. Still use pro biotic with oregano oil capsules anytime I feel a cold trying to get me. It still works. Lots of things still work. I’m just so very tired of it all. I see they figured out how it’s hurting people so badly. It’s able to get into the mitrocobia of the cells. I’m praying they’ll find out how to reverse it before to much longer. Even just stop it from doing more damage. I’m trying so damm hard to get better. I’ve done everything possible. I was also taking glutothione reduced. It actually helped somewhat. Point is all of these vitamins and minerals and supplements we take. Yet they barely get into our bloodstream. I need a Dr in NJ who knows how to help with this. Anyone please message me if you know of any. Jersey Shore area Thank you for listening. Praying for you all to get as healthy as possible. This should never had happened. Never. Fluroquonolones need to be banned Worldwide. They hurt millions to save a handful leaving them asking why they chanced it. I know if I was told life or death and I had to ingest levequin Cipro Avelox I would absolutely say a Hard NO and take my chances. It’s not enough that it physically destroys. It mentally destroys. The worst medication disaster in U.S. History… God Bless you Dr J Cohen for bringing this toxic poisons to light. Medicines supposed to help people not slowly kill them. Wishing you all the best possible health your able to get back too. I believe knowing what this can do sooner actually enables our bodies to flush it out faster. It also doesn’t begin to hurt us until you No longer take it. Years later it’s still hurting me.

    • L January 30, 2019 at 10:30 am Reply

      so sorry you are still suffering. I hope someone can refer you to a NJ doctor familiar with flq toxicity. If you do not hear back from someone on this site, I would recommend you try searching for a Lyme specialist. Even though the mechanism for injury may not be the same, they do share many of the same side effects. When I was getting IVs a good half of the patient there were Lyme patients, and were getting many of the same IVs I got

    • Patrick Jordan January 30, 2019 at 11:26 am Reply

      Please explain the rationale behind the serrapeptidase? One of my listmembers experimented on himself to see if he could remodel scar tissue and it did make the scar tissue go away. Then he noticed that he could not heal from new wounds. So he quit the enzyme and he could heal the new wounds but his old scars came back exactly like before. Since flox affects connective tissue I would really look deeper into anything used for remodeling connective tissue before using it. The bartonella of Lyme also destroys connective tissue so minimizing your exposure to cat scratch fever/fleas is another plus. Pay special attention to veterinary seminars on bartonella because the vets are terrified of contracting it from their patients. If you give chemo to a pet with bartonella it can cause serious heart complications so since you already noted your heart was involved, go with caution with anything that is immunosuppressive. Unfortunately that includes antidepressants and anti anxiety medication. all the best

      • L January 30, 2019 at 12:37 pm Reply

        Not sure where you got the information that serrapeptise “remodels.” What it does is remove dead tissue. I have used it for a couple years on and off. It removes debris and scar tissue. It is also helpful in thinning mucus and reducing inflammation, which makes it helpful for asthma.

        • Patrick Jordan January 30, 2019 at 1:07 pm

          Many of the biological systems are binary: push/pull like the osteoclasts and osteoblasts that tear down bone and then rebuild (remodel) it. If you have one without the other then it is like tearing out your kitchen cabinets without putting new ones in, so serrapeptidase is not a remodel it is a tearout, which is why I personally would not use it. My new cabinets aren’t ordered yet and there aren’t competent workmen to put them in. As to thinning mucus I would favor N-acetyl Cysteine instead (if tolerated there are so many senstivities out there someone with sulfur sensitivity might react) because of its mucus thinning properties (Mucomyst is an Rx tradename despite it being OTC) but also Stephanie Sennef said that sulfur is essential for building up joint tissue. An added but incomplete bonus is that it is a glutathione precursor but you, again, have to have the machinery to make the GSH from scratch for that to be of benefit. Serrapeptidase is made from a genus of bacteria that the CIA adapted for biowarfare ‘simulations’ so it is high on my suspect list. Even if that wasn’t the case it is a gut bug enzyme from silkworms. I would favor bromelain and papain from something we actually eat over something that really isn’t part of our human experience because I haven’t had stir fried silkworms in a long time… like.. never.

          If memory serves then Bromelain is a cysteine protease which, with only supposition, it would seem to be an excellent complement to the introduction of cysteine amino acid for the tear-down/build up sequence.

          cheers.

        • L January 30, 2019 at 1:25 pm

          Already use NAC. IF you have any sources re the serrapeptise I would be interested in seeing them.

        • Patrick Jordan January 30, 2019 at 1:46 pm

          I don’t have anything on the enzyme itself other than it is an industrial product cultured from the genus serratia. Serratia marcescens is the species the CIA used because it does excellent things like turning human female milk red… and stuff… at the same time they were also using pseudomonas that also has a biomarker that shows up easily, but like all demon genii, these things now are the bane of all healthkill facilities leading to outbreaks and deaths. Since pseudomonas is a waterborne organism it gets into the distribution of hospitals, clinics, and dental offices. imagine going to a dentist with pseudomonas in the water that they use to squirt in your mouth after an extraction? Fun stuff.

        • L January 30, 2019 at 1:53 pm

          It comes from the silk work, and many reputable integrative doctors and NDs recommend it.

        • Patrick Jordan January 30, 2019 at 2:15 pm

          work that worm. What I am trying to emphasize here is that the enzyme is not part of the normal human ecology. It is a chemical that comes from a bacteria that lives in the gut of a silk worm. That is has particular biological properties/actions is not in dispute, however crude petroleum is ‘natural’ and meets the guidelines of being ‘organic’ as it is a product of the earth and the chemistry is regarded as organic chemistry because it contains carbon. I would never consume crude oil (thank you Mr. Roddenfedder). I love pineapple and papaya (good luck on getting them organic without mortgaging the house). Pineapple is so powerful that if you eat too much of it fresh it can make your mouth bleed. Some people can have antigenic crossover with bromelain/pineapple and wheat allergy so I always try to present both sides of the fence: the nice chemlawn and the one with dog doo on it. As to anyone in alterNOTive medicine: I’ve been in this game since 1978 and have yet to meet a physician of whitecoat or graycoat that I respect. So, based on the use of a substance that is an industrial enzyme due to consensus of practitioners who are marketed this stuff in the same way that MDs are marketed drugs, I can easily say that it conveys no confidence or assurance. It is only consensus. Lyme ‘literate’ doctors prescribe antibiotics knowing full well that they are creating cell wall deficient forms that are nearly impossible to eradicate yet some of the biggest names in the business do it like a little kid hammering a bent nail with gusto. Frankly, I think those people are criminals that are putting all of humanity at risk. So, I only stick to science because that has never failed me. Oh… and papaya is an avoid on type A blood type so we are always caught in a trashcompacter.

        • L January 30, 2019 at 2:26 pm

          wow. apparently nothing is safe according to you. I’ll keep on the serrapeptase until I actually read something from a well-respected source to the contrary.

        • Patrick Jordan January 30, 2019 at 3:13 pm

          mowers are safe unless you put your hand in the chute.

  6. L January 30, 2019 at 1:53 pm Reply

    worm, not work

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