Floxed in the time of COVID-19

The world has shifted. Most of us started the year as if 2020 was going to be a continuation of the norm of 2019, but the world shook, and all assumptions are now out the door.

We are dealing with a global pandemic. COVID-19, the novel coronavirus, has reached every state in the U.S. and most nations in the world. It has killed thousands of people, and it will almost certainly kill thousands more.

Governments have reacted to COVID-19 by declaring national (or local) emergencies, closing borders, stopping travel, shutting down places where people gather (including restaurants, bars, beaches, churches, etc.), closing schools, locking down nursing homes and retirement communities, telling people to stay home from work, and more. These actions have enormous consequences for our economy, and the reach of the ripple-effects are, and will be, far and wide.

I worry about my community—Durango, Colorado. I worry about the virus reaching Durango. As I write this, no cases have been confirmed in my community – but I’m sure that the day is coming when someone in the community will have, and spread, the virus. I worry about the pain, suffering, and death that will bring. I also worry about the effects of the reactions to COVID-19 on my community. I worry about all the people with young kids who can’t go to school for the next month who now must choose between their job(s) and leaving their kids at home alone. I worry about the people who can barely make ends meet while working full-time who are getting their hours cut because we won’t get tourists this year. I worry about the medical workers who must be exposed to sick people as part of their jobs.

I worry about the floxie community and my floxed friends as well. Floxies are susceptible to viruses just like anyone else, and they are also affected by economic fluctuations. Most of my floxed friends have been hurt economically by fluoroquinolones – losing jobs, money, marriages, relationships, and much more because of fluoroquinolone toxicity – and being further economically hurt by COVID-19 is likely to push some of them over the edge.

I worry about many things and many people.

All this fretting. I wish it was helpful, but, alas, it isn’t. But perhaps it may be helpful for someone reading this to hear that someone else cares and is worried about them. People care enough to worry – I do.

I don’t know any more about the ever-changing COVID-19 virus situation than anyone else. However, I do have a few thoughts on how it might affect those who have been floxed. As always, please keep in mind that I’m not a doctor and these are not opinions that are informed by any medical education, they are simply my opinions and thoughts. Here they are:

  1. If you are not on immunosuppressive drugs, I don’t think that COVID-19 will be any more dangerous for you than it is for anyone else. Yes, I know that fluoroquinolone toxicity makes your immune system go haywire, and that fluoroquinolone toxicity looks and feels a lot like various autoimmune diseases. But, I believe that what makes people with autoimmune diseases more susceptible to infections is the immunosuppressive drugs they are often on, not the autoimmune disease itself. HOWEVER, when COVID-19 (and ebola, and a lot of other viral infections) kills people, it is by over-reaction of the immune system in a process called a cytokine storm. So, if floxies have an over-reactive immune system they may be more likely to experience a cytokine storm. I haven’t seen any research saying that floxies are any more likely to experience a cytokine storm than anyone else though, and I assume that floxies are no more, or less, likely to be infected with or experience complications from COVID-19 than anyone else.
  2. Apparently, people who survived SARS and MERS often experience severe ongoing chronic fatigue after they recover. COVID-19 is related to both SARS and MERS, though whether or not there are ongoing fatigue-related effects of COVID-19 is still to-be-determined. A lot of floxies experience severe and intractable fatigue, and even though my fatigue wasn’t near as bad as that of many people, the thought of virus-induced chronic fatigue scares the crap out of me.
  3. NSAIDs can make COVID-19 infections worse. NSAIDs suck. Here are a couple articles about NSAIDs and COVID-19 as well as a couple posts about how NSAIDs are bad for floxies.
    1. The Guardian, “Anti-inflammatories may aggravate Covid-19, France advises
    2. Floxie Hope, “Why NSAIDs Suck for Floxies (and Probably Everyone Else Too)
    3. Floxie Hope, “NSAIDs and FQs Damage Mitochondria, Increase Oxidative Stress, and Cause Cell Death
  4. Chloroquine is being explored as a potential treatment for COVID-19. It is related to fluoroquinolones, but it is NOT a fluoroquinolone. It’s more of a cousin, or even second-cousin, drug. Is chloroquine contraindicated for people who have been floxed? Probably…. But I have not seen any studies showing that. Still, the precautionary principle should rule in most circumstances, and I wouldn’t touch it. In addition to its quin structure, problems with chloroquine include:
    1. It can cause retinal toxicity and blindness.
    2. Both chloroquine and ciprofloxacin are lysosomotropic drugs. People who are smarter than me should read “Lysosomal cell death at a glance” to figure out what that means.
    3. Chloroquine inhibits thiamine uptake, and depleted thiamine is related to many chronic illnesses (you can read about the connections between thiamine, mitochondrial health, and chronic illness on hormonesmatter.com).
    4. Both fluoroquinolones and chloroquine can lead to serious cardiac problems, including arrhythmia and cardiomyopathy, both of which can lead to death.
    5. Both fluoroquinolones and chloroquine can cause tinnitus, and tinnitus can be miserable.

As I said, I wouldn’t take it if it was avoidable. (I am not under the impression that people quarantined in a hospital have much liberty or choice over what drugs go into their bodies though, and I doubt I would be able to make that decision if faced with treating COVID-19 – hopefully I am being pessimistic on that front and body autonomy isn’t actually relinquished when in the hospital…. But I still hope to never be in the situation to find out.) Chloroquine is a serious and consequential drug that may be particularly consequential for people with a history of adverse reactions to fluoroquinolones, but, I want to caution against a total knee-jerk reaction against any drug or substance with “quin” in its name. For example, pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ) is a mitochondrial support supplement that many floxies have tried without incident – and its name is even scarier than chloroquine. My approach to chloroquine is to avoid it until it is proven safe for floxies, and hope that it won’t be forced upon me. I’m not a doctor and my approach may not work for others, but it’s my two cents for anyone who wants my thoughts on the matter.

We are still at the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic, and I have no clue what the future will hold. I hope that the pain and suffering brought on by this disease is minimized as much as possible. I hope that the floxed community emerges from this difficult time without too many additional scars.

Hugs,

Lisa

*****

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38 thoughts on “Floxed in the time of COVID-19

  1. sprestonpowers March 20, 2020 at 7:11 am Reply

    Thank you for this post Lisa. I have been more scared about the possibility of chloroquine than the actual virus. Do you know if it will only be used if absolutely necessary? Or is it going to be treated like a tamiflu for instance? I’m probably asking questions that nobody knows yet. Also, does this medication have the same black box warning and severe side effects as cipro? Ugh. This is all too much. Thank you for any input!Shaina Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

    • Paula Nelson March 23, 2020 at 5:33 am Reply

      I agree with the concerns about the chloroquine drugs. It is my understanding that the work on the P-450 system that regulates drug metabolism. FQ does the same and that is one gene I need to have tested and analyzed as I have a medical history of slow metabolism. I always solved it by taking less but now understand that it could easily cause an over dose too…

      For all those taking or wondering about NAC – bear in mind that it has a short half life. I was in the ER multiple times during last half of 2019. Started taking larger doses of NAC (I’ve taken 3/600 mg for years for asthma) and it helped with symptoms. A added Glucosamine and was able to reduce dose of NAC somewhat. I now take these supplements 24/7 as I can feel when the NAC starts to wear off. I now take L-argenine and glucosamine at 1/2 dose 4-6 times per day with 600mg NAC as soon as I feel cardiac/respiratory/sinus issues returning. Smaller frequent doses keep blood levels more consistent. I do feel that I am gaining some strength and don’t need to use oxygen as much.

  2. Barbara Arnold March 20, 2020 at 8:27 am Reply

    Thanks for your I put Lisa. These are indeed scary times. Here in Spain we have been on lockdown for just over a week. We are only allowed out for essentials, ie. food, meds, work. Any other reason you will either be arrested or fined a huge fine. This suits me, I feel safer at home, but I’m lucky because I have a big garden to get some fresh air. There are so many people around the world so much worse off and my heart goes out to them. I am watching events unfold in the UK, and some people, mainly the young or very old still don’t get it. They are still going to pubs, clubs, cafes etc. This is selfish because they could be infected and spread it to others who are vulnerable.
    Italy has a lot of deaths, but to put it in perspective, 99% of those poor souls that died had existing health problems.
    Lisa check out Mahmoud ELAwadi on U-Tube. It will gob smack you. I posted about him and Don M kindly put a link you can access.
    I will update our progress here as it happens. Hopefully it will be good some time in the future. Stay safe. Wash hands and try to social distance, because it will spread and could already be where you are. Hopefully it’s not xx

  3. Don M March 20, 2020 at 9:03 am Reply

    Everyone……. If you read Lisa’s article and comments read my last post about the Coronavirus. Read about how it gets into the human body. By following the rather simple recommendations one can help to minimize there chances of getting the virus. Learn. Pay attention and don’t become a victim. Being floxed is bad enough.

  4. L March 20, 2020 at 10:38 am Reply

    Thanks Lisa.

  5. Annie Krinsky March 20, 2020 at 10:38 am Reply

    Thank you so much, Lisa. The information you provide is ALWAYS helpful. I experimented with Chloroquine in the past as a treatment for the Flox syndrome. It was actually harmful. My symptoms got worse. I will not try this drug if it is widely offered as treatment for the Coronavirus.

  6. ELAINE BERKOWITZ March 20, 2020 at 2:10 pm Reply

    Lisa, I’m in a box and have to have a surgery in a week The doc said she wants to use general anathema. Can you tell me what is best tolerated for floxies. THANK YOU!!

    >

  7. Hazel March 20, 2020 at 8:52 pm Reply

    Thanks again Lisa for your helpful, timely analysis. Hope you and yours are all staying well. This new flu situation particularly resonates with me: against a background of mild asthma I contracted Influenza A last year (dire fever, sweats, chills, coughing up bits of bloody lung tissue), followed by bacterial pneumonia for which I was given two Avelox IVs; these relieved my condition but left me fully floxed. My lungs are still shredded and now I have FQ heart arrhythmia, eye and tendinitis problems to contend with. Covid-19, viral pneumonia and hydroxychloroquine (with its cardiac and retinal threats) all have the potential to slay us Floxies. Possibly the only upsides for us in this situation is that we’ve had to become more health aware, and have extra experience in dealing with medical professionals and downtime management. That’s my positive spin on this challenging new chapter in our lives. One supplement I’ve found useful in general is NAC, which has a mucus-thinning effect and has helped me to breathe easier. It might not suit everyone, but I just thought I’d mention it. Best wishes to all, Hazel.

    • L March 20, 2020 at 9:04 pm Reply

      Wow, that’s quite a lot. Yes, NAC is very helpful. I go through vats of it because of my constant lung congestion. But it also helps create glutathione, the master antioxidant. They are even looking into it in cancer treatment. good stuff.

      I had a lot of eye issues too. So many floaters it was like trying to look through gauze…hundreds of them. and at one point my brain wasn’t working normally, so instead of seeing one whole composite picture I was seeing something different out of each eye. I also had several incidences of scary “light shows,” and I was diagnosed within a month with macular degeneration. Sun sensitivity was severe. It hurt to go outside even with a hat and sunglasses. Very difficult in offices or stores with fluorescent lighting. And my vision got much much worse.

      The bad news is I of course will always now have macular degeneration. the good news is my brain started working again (ocular area anyhow! 🙂 ) The floaters finally reduced to just a few. I still have light sensitivity but it too is much better.

    • Jeannie March 21, 2020 at 8:51 am Reply

      NAC was recommended by the health food store. I have since read a lot of suggestions for cats claw but you’ll need to do the research as I don’t how it relates to your issues.

  8. May March 21, 2020 at 11:57 pm Reply

    I have not used any pharmaceutical since I was floxed over 8 yrs ago. I am as I say, fairly recovered (I allow for any unknowns). I had one of the most horrible reactions leaving me very disabled in many ways but recovered. NAC is what I call my “miracle supplement.” I have 13 young grands (ages 1 to 11) who are very involved in my life. Last year I caught something so nasty that I used a box of Kleenex in one day. I upped my NAC from 600 to 2400 mg and the next day that miserable cold went to NOTHING, yes the very next day. I am floxed because every year ANY sniffle would turn into weeks of bronchitis that eventually needed an antibiotic. There are publications suggesting NAC along with the cofactors, zinc, c, selenium, molybdenum, d, etc… but I can’t find anyone to say if this would work with the storm thing. If NAC cleared a bad case of psoriasis on both legs after years of nothing else working what does that mean. I want to did into what usually works but I want some facts about this. To me NAC (which is a biofilm disrupter and mucolytic) and upping zinc and WHOLE FOOD C should take it out with no worries. But…I still have them.

  9. Rai March 22, 2020 at 1:19 pm Reply

    This is a translation of a Spanish article about interferon and antivirals being used in Cuba. Cuban doctors are bringing it to Italy and other countries

    https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/cuba-in-the-time-of-the-coronavirus/

    The combination of lopinavir and ritonavir inhibit and block the HIV virus and, it is hoped, will act in a similar way with the coronavirus. Interferon Beta, another pharmaceutical used in China and Seville that was studied in Cuba, has a distinct actuation mechanism. It is one of the so-called signalling proteins that naturally produce human cells when infected by a virus. Its job is to alert the other cells, thereby creating greater resistance to infection.

    • Paula Nelson March 23, 2020 at 5:35 am Reply

      Interferons are a concern because of possible cytokine storm.

  10. Honestly March 23, 2020 at 11:06 am Reply

    Basically, it’s experimental treatment. Thanks for the updates. Take care of yourselves.
    May God give peace and protection

    • Rai March 23, 2020 at 12:33 pm Reply

      On the other thread, Andrea pointed out that interferon has really strong side effects. Maybe the real benefit of what Cuba is doing is how they sent a bunch of doctors yesterday to Italy. I hope they can help.

  11. Rai March 24, 2020 at 12:49 pm Reply

    In Nigeria, people are saying they would rather die than take chloroquine, which was forced on them as malaria prophylaxis by international organizations.

    Also this is the author of the tiny study everyone is quoting, who has a history of abusive employment practices, possiby unethical investments and is just a weird guy
    He’s actually wearing a skull and crossbones ring on his pinkie finger.

    • Barbara Arnold March 28, 2020 at 10:24 am Reply

      RAI, This shit is a cousin of fluroquinolones. Stay away from it. They use people in your Country as guinea pigs.

  12. Lee March 25, 2020 at 8:47 pm Reply

    They are exaggerating things so much in the media that they even have people who have been harmed by FQs saying they would take them if they had the Corona virus. It would almost guarantee their deaths since they have already been harmed by FQ. I have seen many mainstream media outlets heavily pushing FQs as the solution for the Corona virus. I am very frightened for my fellow floxies.

    • L March 25, 2020 at 10:25 pm Reply

      You’re not alone in that. I would rather die than go through the torture I endured.

  13. Oliver W March 25, 2020 at 10:13 pm Reply

    I just feel for all the Covid19 patient’s who develop pneumonia and are given Fluroquinolones for it. Already know one who was given Levaquin for it.

    • L March 25, 2020 at 10:27 pm Reply

      And you just know that if they develop long term side effects, doctors will say it was the result of the corona virus….not the fluoroquinolone

  14. Honestly March 26, 2020 at 11:08 am Reply

    Fluoroquinolones aren’t the only drugs spoken of for treating the virus that may be harmful. Thanks for the reminder. It’s good to have this group looking out for one another! Stay well-((((((((((hugs))))))))) Is this enough distancing? ;p

    • L March 26, 2020 at 11:12 am Reply

      🙂 thanks for the social distancing humor. And if by chance I got corona (which would be hideous on top of this lung congestion issue I have had over 2 years now, that already keeps me up most nights with breathing issues, I would try things I had read about. THis morning I read of a hospital in NY using 1500 mg vitamin C 4 times a day; 10,000 Units vitamin D (hopefully with K). I would also try nebulizing colloidal silver.

  15. Hazel March 28, 2020 at 10:53 am Reply

    Hi there everyone, good to see that others have been helped by NAC: I’ll keep taking it throughout this crisis and beyond. As for Covid treatments that might be kinder to Floxies, in my (very amateurish) way I’ve been looking into SuperOxide Dismutase (SOD). Floxies seem to have mutations on their SOD genes: I think FQs trash these metalloenzymes which are among the body’s frontline defenders against infection (the fluorine component of FQs pulls out the transition metals – manganese, iron, copper – contained in SOD?).

    And I found this paper suggesting that aerosolised SOD seems to help ameliorate Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (a major risk for Covid sufferers):
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026870
    “The results encourage the use of an aerosol therapy with EC-[extracellular]SOD in intensive care units to reduce oxidative injury in patients with severe hypoxemic respiratory failure, including acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).”

    So my question for any medically qualified respondents out there is this: if our compromised SOD genes land us Floxies in hospital with Covid, could topping up our EC-SOD with nebulisers help us without piling on any extra side effects?

  16. Rai March 30, 2020 at 12:23 pm Reply

    Here’s another article translated from French I think that talks about how the plaquenil doctor should be questioned. He’s a climate change denier as well.

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/treating-covid-19-chloroquine-reckless/

  17. Mariaan April 4, 2020 at 12:54 am Reply

    hi everyone, we here in South Africa are into our second week of lockdown , the second being the most contagious, so I’m really on LOCKDOWN because of my age for one and secondly I took Ciploxx like smarties not knowing that that was the cause of my ill health, so am staying far away from public and praying that this virus will be trampled under Jesus feet as of now. I have stocked up on Indian tonic water which has quinine in and drink a very small amount when the ringing in my ears and inflammation gets out of hand. it really helps! but don’t take it every day. praying for the Lord’s mercy on South Africa and America and the whole world. may this virus stop right now in Jesus name. be safe all.

  18. Barbara Arnold April 4, 2020 at 2:32 am Reply

    They have approved Chloroquine for the worst cases here in Spain.
    As from today the Army are on the Streets where I live to make sure people are sticking to the rules. Whilst I understand the need for this lockdown, I find it disturbing that they are using this shit drug and that our basic freedoms are being slowly taken by stealth. I am afraid if the drug works on the worst cases they will force everyone to have it. I have no problem with lockdown and we follow the expert advice for limited outings for food etc. Everyone I know here is doing the same. So why ‘the Army’ when the local Police were doing a good job. These are scary times indeed.

    • L April 4, 2020 at 9:57 am Reply

      I share your concerns Barbara, on both issues. Scary times indeed. Especially when we have a wanna-be dictator here. I have grave concerns about our civil liberties. And I am also concerned that when they get a vaccine they will expect everyone to get one. I will not/cannot. Bill Gates, who so many mistakenly admire, is (in addition to partnering with the grotesque Monsanto) pushing for some kind of electronic record of everyone who has gotten their “required” vaccines.

      • Barbara Arnold April 4, 2020 at 10:19 pm Reply

        I didn’t know Gates was partnering with Monsanto. Jeez. I know he has a body chip ready for people to use instead of cash, and yes it would contain your health record. I can’t post links as I have a tablet grrr. But if that takes off, it means you wouldn’t be able to buy anything without it. It would have all your information. I don’t know enough about it yet, but I do find it worrying.
        They have a strange culture here in Spain, they actually clapped from their balconies when the Army trucks drove through the town. Seems they have forgotten history with Franco the Dictator.

        • L April 4, 2020 at 11:14 pm

          yeah. I just hope there are enough to fight things like the chip. Most sadly just believe what they’re told from the powers that be.

      • Mariaan April 4, 2020 at 11:51 pm Reply

        mark of the Beast!! no ways for me or my family

  19. Rai April 6, 2020 at 10:57 am Reply

    The chloroquine story is really suspicious! Dr Fauci is trying to tell Trump to cut it out, and now the man in charge of US trade is telling Fauci to shut up. Whenever big business is on one side, that should be a warning!
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/06/peter-navarro-fauci-hydroxychloroquine

    • L April 6, 2020 at 11:18 am Reply

      Guessing big pharma is behind this all

  20. Alba April 14, 2020 at 10:02 am Reply

    Me informe sobre la cloroquina y me dijeron esto: (he usado traductor)
    Hello Alba, The first is an antimalarial and fluorquinolones are antibiotics. In principle they are two different drugs, used in different indications as well. However, but from the point of view of chemical structure, they present a certain analogy (similar heterocyclic rings). They could have similar adverse reactions.

    2º In principle, chloroquine and its hydroxychloroquine derivative present a risk of hemolytic anemia, therefore in thalassemias they would not be recommended. In quinolones, the risk of hemolytic anemia has also been described.

    In short, these drugs present a risk of hemolytic anemia. Your doctor should assess the risk benefit if you need to be prescribed chloroquine or its hydroxychloroquine derivative.

    Bibliography:

    Chloroquine technical data sheet https://cima.aemps.es/cima/pdfs/es/ft/15797/FichaTecnica_15797.html.pdf
    Hydroxychloroquine technical data sheet https://cima.aemps.es/cima/pdfs/es/ft/83938/FT_83938.pdf
    Ciprofloxacin technical data sheet: https://cima.aemps.es/cima/pdfs/es/ft/62300/FT_62300.pdf

  21. S April 21, 2020 at 10:16 am Reply

    Hi there,

    For anyone who is experiencing covid19, there is a great support group that you can find out how to contact here through this NYT article. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/opinion/coronavirus-recovery.html?searchResultPosition=2
    It’s been reassuring, complex, and supportive! A lot of these people (2500 as of last week, probably more now) are having to piece together their own perspective on their symptoms and healing trajectories as many of us here have had to do.

    To give a little hope, I’m on week 6 of “Suspect Covid 19” for lack of testing options. Though my doctors believe that I have the virus, and I do, too, because of the wild lung symptoms. I’m alright. It’s going to be a long recovery, but probably shorter than Cipro poisoning was for me. Moderate/Mild Covid19, in my case, was also much less difficult than floxing. I don’t know of many worse things that being severely floxed, sorry to say, but this is probably the only place I can say that and not come across as crazy. My heart goes out to all of the people who are also having the severe cases of Covid19.

    The majority of us, even those of us who were floxed, are likely to make it through this illness. At least that is my hope. Take good care of yourselves. Buy an oxometer and find your thermometer. “Prone” if you can’t breathe well at night. Sleep, rest, drink fluids, and love yourselves.

    Sending love and courage, S

  22. S April 21, 2020 at 10:22 am Reply

    Also, this is an excellent article. I do know that there are far more symptoms for Covid19 than are currently widely recognised in the media at this early date. This will be recognised in time. Also the true recovery time for mild/moderate cases is likely far longer than 2 weeks for many people. But this Dr. has a lot of important things to say, that can help you to prepare yourselves for Covid19 if it gets into your lungs, as it was in mine.

  23. S April 21, 2020 at 10:29 am Reply

    p.s. Took no medication and still got through Covid19’s worst weeks. It can be done even with burning lungs and trachea, even with the feeling of glue in your lungs, shortness of breath, and trouble breathing and wheezing. This illness can turn on and off in a way that I’ve never experienced before in my life. So one week my lungs and that were burning as though they were all an open wind, then I woke up and it was just over. Hoping that this gives courage.

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