Floxie Hope

Floxie.Hope.1800.72.dpi

This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa

 

 

 

18,653 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Steph OG March 5, 2018 at 4:29 pm Reply

    So I now get Medicare and can’t seem to find a flipping dr that accepts Medicare. The one I’m going to in Thursday I have no clue if he will make fun of me or write I’m crazy in the notes. At least twice a week I can’t move or my heart beats so fast I feel like passing out. It has been like this for 3yrs and I’m sick of it. I’m sorry I’m usually much more positive but I’m scared to get made fun of again I’m so tired of this stupid need to make drs believe when it’s a double black box medication and they all have that look of what…… I don’t know what to do I’m just tired that every dr listed in the darn Medicare website no longer accepts Medicare

    • Don Mowers March 5, 2018 at 4:54 pm Reply

      Join the crowd of disgusted seniors. Doctors (especially those who deal with Medicare) are locked into a protocol. The MD doctors either toe the line set by the AMA, big pharma and their kiss ass peers in the establishment or get drummed out and have to find another career. Most doctors either try to play dumb, ignore or discredit any information about Flouroquinoline toxicity. I just came from the eye doctor and after the eye injection the assistant was ready to put an antibiotic in my eye. I asked what it was and she said Ofloxicin. I said NO WAY. She said why. I said I am already toxic from Flouroquinolones I don’t need more. It was clear she didn’t understand that.

    • L March 5, 2018 at 5:03 pm Reply

      So sorry to hear that. I lucked out and got not only one who is covered, BUT he is integrative as well. (Of course I have to pay out of pocket for IVs and supplements from him…) They are out there! Good luck. (what part of the country are you in? perhaps someone on here can refer you)

      • Steph OG March 5, 2018 at 6:05 pm Reply

        L it’s me Steph 😜 live in Tacoma wa…. I have to go to a dr on Thursday because I have not had blood work for over a year. Ugh if anyone goes to a Medicare dr in Tacoma or surrounding area that is accepting new patients or has a letter that their dr could give me to use on Thursday when I go see this new dr it would be amazing. I have had 4 panic attacks over this and am already annoyed with myself 😂😂😂😂

        • L March 5, 2018 at 6:14 pm

          The OG threw me off. Is that as in “OMG” ??? 🙂

        • Steph OG March 5, 2018 at 10:29 pm

          L I was being funny because there was another stephanie that popped up so I just added the og to tell difference 😂😂😂…… I’m pretty much tapped out from the wedding. I mean it was super small and boom I still can’t even go a day without being out of breath…… I’m just so tired of paying for stuff that I have no clue will work and nothing happening. Plus the fact I have to explain to another dr everything…..ugh ……. I don’t even know what to bring this dr to get him to believe me I’m just glad he accepts the Medicare pay out and doesn’t make you pay difference….. I’m just needing blood work done so badly😓😓😓😓

        • L March 5, 2018 at 11:09 pm

          I know what you mean. I HATE the thought of going to a new doctor and having to explain everything for the millionth time. I got through the horrible breathing problems finally but now have had post nasal drip 24/7 that then goes into my throat and then my lungs and I have spent so many nights trying to cough it out that my throat and lungs ache. My integrative doc has suggested just about everything he can and I think maybe I should see an allergist, but then a) will it be covered and b) will they think Cipro couldn’t possibly do all this. ugh

        • Steph OG March 6, 2018 at 3:35 pm

          After everything you’ve been though you still have the lung issues😓😓😭😓😓so awful. It’s so hard that’s why when people list off so many things I’m like is it cheap or free. I am so sorry your lung issue is still hurting you🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

        • L March 6, 2018 at 5:39 pm

          Thanks. yeah…after months of really horrible breathing problems, I thought it was finally resolving and then…boom….this congestion from post nasal drip. My lungs and throat hurt today from trying to cough it out (unsuccessfully) last night. Two nights in a row now, zero sleep from this….it just never ends.

        • Steph OG March 7, 2018 at 5:37 am

          I’m so sorry. It all frustrating. I feel like screaming. I’m so tired of this. I’m so sorry I hope you find something to help you!!!

        • jat92517 March 7, 2018 at 12:54 pm

          Redoxa cleared my congestion from food o tolerance.

          http://Www.4yourtype.com
          877-226-8973
          You will talk to a triage nurse who will sort through your problem.

        • L March 7, 2018 at 1:55 pm

          thanks but I don’t believe it is from foods. think I have found a solution anyway—serrapeptase

        • L March 7, 2018 at 1:56 pm

          and btw NAC appears to be the main ingredients and I already take that

      • Barbara Arnold March 9, 2018 at 1:38 am Reply

        Hey L, sorry about your lung issues, it sucks I know. I have no idea if it will help you, but I use nano silver, the one Keeri Knox recommends, and it clears my lungs. Just a thought.

        • L March 9, 2018 at 9:49 am

          Thanks Barbara. Actually when I hd the severe breathing problems a few months ago, and my integrative MD thought perhaps it was from a virus, he had me on a colloidal silver for a fair amount of time. It made no difference.

          The current issue is that (I am guessing from mast cell activiation) I have constant post nasal drip. I can feel it at the back of my nose and throat, and inevitably, esp at night, some ends up in the lungs. BUT after spending $100s on different supplements, I think I have found something that is working. First, I am using Xclear which just helps a bit and then, the big help seems to be serrapeptase. I had been using it before for something else. It is supposed to gobble up unwanted proteins. Anyhow, I happened to come across something online about using it for this very thing, and while it is not gone, it is vastly improved! So I will just keep on with this. IT’s pretty amazing stuff, from the silk worm and seems to have so many uses.

        • H.Noordhuizen April 1, 2018 at 12:58 pm

          I’ve read the information on the website of Keeri Knox and I saw many factual mistakes. It mainly is a website for selling his own product but after all the msitakes I read I have little trust in his device.

          The theory of silver colloïdes being the best for healing,and ionic silver being inferior is proven rong in some recent studies; it’s the ions that kill the bacteria and colloids/nanoparticles have to be changed to ions by the body first (with the help of sulfur) before they can do their job:

          http://news.rice.edu/2012/07/11/ions-not-particles-make-silver-toxic-to-bacteria-3/

          This means that there is no need for buying expesive “all colloids” silver,or “pure nano silver” ; you can make your own with the simpler and cheaper silver makers like the one from Sota (with which you can also pulse your blood to kill bacteria,virusses,fungus etc.),build a device yourself ( schematics on the bobbeck website),or buy cheap ionic silver.

        • H.Noordhuizen April 1, 2018 at 1:02 pm

          Less is more: this article not only mentions that silver IONS are the preferred and most effective silver particles but also mentions that,on wounds,a too strong ionic silver water (or colloidal/nano silver solution) slows the healing and even can damage skin tissue:

          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090819083145.htm

        • H.Noordhuizen April 1, 2018 at 1:42 pm

          I found an article about how Cypro and other anti-biotics damage the mitochondria of cells. The fact that silver boosts the efficienty of antibiotica is mentioned here as well:

          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130703160623.htm

          Maybe,in the near future, ionic silver will be the antibiotic of choice :-))

    • Bob March 5, 2018 at 9:10 pm Reply

      Go to the Blu Room in Olympia Wa. It is ultraviolet light therapy that may be able to reboot your nervous system.

      • Steph OG March 5, 2018 at 10:34 pm Reply

        I can’t afford to add things I have to pay full price on….. do you know of a dr who accepts Medicare that gets that this happens???? I have to have ivs that I pay full price for plus the cost of Lyft to get there and I get reiki I just can’t add on more things I have a very tight budget.

        • Bob March 9, 2018 at 6:17 pm

          I can’t imagine you Wil find a doctor that accepts Medicare that can help you. I am on Medicare and it will pay for routine tests. The Blu Room is only $60.00.

    • Sachi March 28, 2018 at 2:57 am Reply

      Dear Steph OG, I went to a skilled acupuncturist who really helped during my healing process from Cipro in 2016. Her name is Dr. Jin and she is located in Ballard (1551 NW 54th st), Seattle. I know that this is a long drive, but she does now know more about Cipro poisoning. She has had more than one patient with Floxing symptoms. You can also find functional medicine Dr.’s in Seattle who are familiar with floxing, so less need to explain the basic premise that flouroquinalones can be a poison for some of us. Dr. Jena Peterson near Greenlake knows about floxing and had good ideas. There is also an md/functional MD in Issaqua named Steven M. Hall. These are 3 people who I went to visit who had had other patients with floxing in the past. I also went to see both a neurologist at Virgina Mason, and a Endocrinologist who had exposure to flouroquinalone toxicity. The neurologist had been poisoned herself, and the endocrinologist’s mother had been hurt by flouroquinalones. The acupuncturist and the functional/MD may have some good treatment ideas for you. The first year was the hardest. I did Wahl’s Protocol, and even 2 years out, I still find by trial and error that it is the right approach for me to deal with my lingering symptoms. Best Wishes, Sachi

      • jat92517 March 28, 2018 at 6:29 am Reply

        Sachi,

        Thanks so much. Excellent leads. Love this blog. It has saved my life.

        John Taylor

      • L March 28, 2018 at 9:03 am Reply

        hey steph, the Virginia mason neurologist might be worth a shot…..

  2. Peter March 5, 2018 at 6:55 pm Reply

    I haven’t read a full slate of comments in a while, but it seems that people are not listening to John regarding getting magnesium through saturated foot soaks. I have been doing them religiously and following Kerrie’s diet and supplement protocol (with adjustments according to trial and error, as some of the dosages are too high for me), and going to Chinese acupuncture.

    I was on Xanax, then Clonopin, Lunesta and other meds to try to sleep. I am off all of them.
    Don’t go on a benzo if you can help it. Getting off of them after extended use is tricky and
    unpleasant if not done properly.

    No more neuropathy. Gone. For several weeks now. No reoccurence. No more brain
    fog. No more anxiety about floxing.

    The only areas that act up as far as tendons are those that were already weak before getting floxed, but they are getting much better. Exercise every day, a different type every day. Sleep is hugely important. I also got my medical cannabis license from the state. There is a strain they offer that is very good for sleep. Valerian and melatonin are are good too, but must be from a good company. The melatonin has to be taken a few hours before bedtime.
    Just before bedtime is too late. The valerian takes at least 30 minutes to take effect. It is contraindicated with some meds, so do proper research and ask a doctor first. I haven’t needed the valerian for weeks. The melatonin dosage needs to be played with. I was taking 3mg, but it was making me drowsy in the morning, so I cut the pill by 1/3, and take 2 mg.
    Next time I buy it, I will just buy 2mg or 1 mg pills.

    Meditation is also excellent, as it offers a different realm of consciousness than the one where all the worry occurs.

    Coconut oil for brain clarity, kefir and kombucha for digestive recovery, good organic protein sources, calcium through diet, and breathing techniques by Andrew Weil. Pure clean water (lots of it) and good supplements. Organic bone broth and Okra for collagen, and collagen supplements suggested by Kerrie. I sautee the okra with onions, garlic and turmeric, and add to other vegetables or dishes. Sometimes throw in organic chicken or wild fish. Don’t overcook it.

    And, really important – meditation, which creates separation from the anxiety while going through healing, and helps balance the central nervous system, and simply feels good and helps going into a deeper place from which to survey one’s life.

    As far as attacking the Cipro damage, they are all important for me. If I miss a magnesium
    soak, the joint popping sometimes comes back the next morning, but nothing like before, where it seemed my knees and
    shoulders were going to separate from their sockets, because the connective muscle and tendon tissues were getting brittle, and losing their flexibility, and pulling the tissues away from the joints. Was going into my shoulders and neck and thumbs also. Very little discomfort now.

    It has to be a dedicated vigilant holistic attack, on all fronts, and then the body responds magnificently, as it wants to and is ready to heal. The Chinese acupuncture and herbs, if the person knows what they are doing, can reverse the aberrant autonomic response from floxing. They can focus the treatment on the autonomic and central nervous system, which
    was triggered by the fluorquinolone to attack the connective and brain tissues.
    I recommend to not delay, trust the process, and review it all with a doctor (which I am not)
    before following anything expressed here. Just want to let people know it can be reversed –
    living proof. I experience great relief for days after the acupuncture treatments, and feel the herbs giving me a calm energy.

    Trust the power of life that is already within you. See the movie “Heal” on Apple TV.
    Trust the process. Affirm to your inner self that you are healing, and visualize it. The
    body’s internal intelligence will respond, but you have to give it the tools to do so.

    These are just the things that worked for me, and continue to work. Try what feels good and works, but I found that these things have to be given a chance, and the correct dosages and possible reactions to supplements have to be discovered by trial and error. For example, I was taking way too much Magnesium until I did the foot soaks, and had loose stools, nausea, heart palpitations for 3 or 4 days in a row, and then backed off. The Epsom foot soaks are best because the body takes only what it needs. Certain supplements did not jive with my body.

    Avoid sugar and alcohol during the healing process. Absolutely. Stop smoking.

    I guess this seems like preaching, but these are all things I tell myself (I haven’t smoked for many years, and don’t drink at all anyhow). Stopping sugar is a challenge, but it depresses the immune system and causes fatigue.

    I found that the natural things that I could take for the rest of my life without any negative side effects seem to be the most welcomed by my body. The one unknown for me is the Chinese herbs, as I have no idea what’s in them. He makes a different mixture every time I see him, according to what he diagnosed that day. But, the Chinese acupuncturist I see says they won’t interfere with other meds or protocols, and have no negative side effects, which so far seems to be true. I would add caution, however, if someone is
    taking other herbs as well. Tell the acupuncturist everything you are doing to fight the floxing, and he/she can tell you if there is a contraindication.

    Run everything by a doctor who is at least aware of floxing and knows your medical history before following these suggestions. It seems to me the floxing attacks the places in the body that were already weak before the floxing. It seems insidious, but it is just the autonomic system being misdirected and confused, and has to be corrected and reversed. And the weak areas need to be helped, supported and fed with nourishment, proper attention and rest so they can heal.

    And a good attitude. Especially not to see yourself as a victim, as that will lead you down a dark hole. That can be reversed in a few seconds, if you choose to do so. One split second of consciousness and embracing of life can save you from a entire future of negative living and regret, and feeling sorry. It will also infuse hope and energy into your being, which the body will really respond to. It only takes a split second of light for years of darkness to disappear.

    Best wishes and happy healing to all.

    • Don Mowers March 6, 2018 at 6:56 am Reply

      SATURATED FOOT SOAKS. How much magnesium flakes or Epsom salts “in” how much water is considered a “saturated foot soak”? I am sure that many who are wondering just what to do now that they have become floxed. Your information appears to be a good starting point for us. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
      May I add. Be sure that you are using FLUORIDE FREE water. Fluoride removal filters are available from simple water pitchers to whole house systems. Get one of them and use it.

      • A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 7:28 am Reply

        Don, I had planned to reply to Peter’s post anyway and you motivated me to complete the process. The answer is actually in your question. The definition of the word saturated is, “being a solution that is unable to absorb or dissolve any more of a solute at a given temperature and pressure.” So, put in as much Epsom Salts as you can get to dissolve in the tub. It will differ depending on the size of your tub and the temperature of your water. If you are using a standard foot tub you can plan to start with around 4 pounds of Epsom Salts, provided you are using pretty hot water. If you are new to the process I would start there and then work up as your body tolerates.

        John’s protocol reuses the bath a few times. Personally I still like to maximize the area for absorption and do Epsom Salt baths instead. I put 2 pounds in a tub and soak for at least 30 minutes twice a week. That is not as intense as John’s protocol, which I may adopt. What I do to supplement is once a month go go a float chamber where they super-saturate the water with Epsom salts to obtain neutral buoyancy and I am sure my skin drinks it up like crazy during the hour I spend there.

        I also supplement most mornings with some Mg oil and take a 200mg dose of Mg glycinate every night.

        I recently got my Mg level checked using the RBC protocol (supposedly far more accurate than serum Mg) and it came back at 5.7(whatever the units are). That is in the range, but a bit below the 6.0 to 6.8 recommended by the Mg proponents on the web.

        All I know is that my neuropathy is much better with Mg and it seems to help other things too. So, find your protocol, John’s, mine, or whatever works for you and see if it doesn’t help.

        • Don Mowers March 6, 2018 at 7:50 am

          Thank you. After about 30 years of asking doctors my “WHY” questions and getting nothing but speculative guesses I finally figured for myself that I am floxed. Why am I so sure? Because since the inception of Flouoroquinolone antibiotics I have taken maybe 1,000 or more Cipro pills over the past 32 years. (chronic urinary tract infection) I was a guinea pig in the clinical trials of Cipro before it came to market. I stayed with it because it worked and worked well for me. Now I realize the damage it did to me. Now at 83 I have to try to fix some of the damage.

      • Peter March 6, 2018 at 9:39 am Reply

        I use 2 pounds of epsom salts in a plastic tub that is just big enough for my feet, and fill it up
        to cover the ankle bone. 15 minutes.

        • lee March 6, 2018 at 12:23 pm

          can the epsom salt be soaked in with fluoride water or ?

        • Peter March 6, 2018 at 2:17 pm

          To Lee – If you are nervous about using tap water for the Epsom foot soaks, then perhaps obtain a filter that removes fluoride. I also use warm water. Not hot, just quite warm.

        • Don Mowers March 6, 2018 at 3:30 pm

          Fluoride removal filters are not cheap but you can get a housing canister from Filtersfast .com for less than $25 and the Flouride filter cartridge can be bought from Fountain Head Water Systems for about $30. Be aware that the single Fluoride filter would be OK for water you did not intend to drink or use for other potable purposes. The Alumina media (that removes the Fluoride) imparts a bitter taste to the water. If you wanted to drink the water and use it for other potable purposes it needs to have a carbon block filter added after the Flouride filter. In other words a second filter housing and a carbon block filter. I use the two filter system under my sink. I found a carbon block filter that is impregnated with silver at Filtersfast. This two filter filter system is said to remove 99% of the Fluoride, lead, pesticides and other contaminants from the water. If you are concerned about your city water this works well and is much cheaper than a reverse osmosis system. Each of these filters will filter enough water to last at least a year before replacement is necessary. Install a valve on the inlet to the filters to limit the water flow to 1/2 gallon per minute. The longer the water stays in contact with the filter media the more efficiently it filters. I hope this information helps.

    • Bob March 9, 2018 at 6:28 pm Reply

      What is Kerrie’s diet and supplement protocol?

      • Peter March 10, 2018 at 10:32 am Reply

        Go to the home page of this website. On the upper right is an offer to two guidebooks. The first is the one by Kerrie Knox. There is a small cost.

  3. Jen March 6, 2018 at 1:19 am Reply

    4 years later just had another flare up, my whole body hurts I’m only 27

    • A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 7:30 am Reply

      Jen, so sorry to hear about your relapse after so much time. Your age will be a benefit as the younger one is when floxed the more likely they seem to heal and heal fully and more quickly. I am nearing 3 years post-flox and have yet to fully heal, with a brand new symptom just this week (see below).

      Remember that time will help and try not to stress too much about it. Easier said than done. You healed last time and you will heal faster this time.

  4. A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 7:46 am Reply

    NEW FLOX SYMPTOM – what is my future likely to hold?

    So, I am about 2 1/2 years post floxing and finally making some significant improvement. I had started having “normal” days. Not 100%, but so close as not to matter. In fact in February alone I had 13 of these days – nearly half.

    Then last Thursday I woke up with a mild buzzing in my ears. By around noon it went away. Then yesterday I woke up and it was back – this time not so lucky as it has decided to stick around.

    I know that tinnitus is a floxie symptom, but I don’t read much about floxies successfully dealing with this. I scrubbed the last two years of comments on this thread and didn’t find much other than people reporting they had tinnitus. I read one recovery story where someone reported getting better. Do people learn how to “deal” with it? Do they get better and fail to share? Anybody else go over two years without a floxie symptom only to have it show up?

    Hearing is one area where my “abilities” actually improved with floxing. I can hear EVERYTHING!! I can hear co-workers two rows away if I concentrate. The clock ticking at night in our bathroom down the hall was so bad that we had to start keeping the door closed. I did a simple on-line hearing analysis, my hearing isn’t going. In fact this simple test rated me at 97% and said it was highly unlikely that I had any hearing issues. So, the tinitus isn’t a complete surprise – maybe all this “loud” noise finally damaged my hearing.

    I have read enough online already to learn that fixating on tinnitus only makes it worse as there is no “real” sound only perceived sound. But that is easier said than done. I only got about 3 to 4 hours of sleep last night. That is disheartening as the insomnia, which has continued to dog me post-floxing was also starting to get better – I had been averaging 5 to 6 hours of sleep; close to normal. I also know that tinnitus sometimes gets better in a “regular” person after a few months and with ear cleaning. I already downloaded a white noise app to my iPad and that is what helped me get a couple of hours of sleep early in the morning.

    So, my ask of my fellow floxies to help me “believe” and not fixate on my tinnitus – Have you gotten over flox-induced tinnitus? If so please reply to give me some hope. Let me know how long it took, because I know other than the above there are no real solutions to tinnitus.

    Thanks – A.Coleman

    • Cipropoisoned March 7, 2018 at 12:06 pm Reply

      Hi, I was floxed six years and one month ago. The Tinnitus became constant around month 11 and it has been with me since. The good news is that over time it has become less and intense. After 5 years, I would rate it as 1-2/10—there are days when it is louder, but it becomes loud when I am cycling through the pains, etc. I am not back to normal, but I am much, much better.

      • L March 7, 2018 at 12:19 pm Reply

        That’s good to hear, because mine seems to have gotten worse (3+ years out). Maybe it will lessen. I am tired of searching for “cures”!

        • Barbara Arnold March 9, 2018 at 5:40 pm

          That’s great L, glad to hear somethings finally working. Can I ask where you got it. Always good to know, just in case.

        • L March 9, 2018 at 6:37 pm

          Where I got what? Sorry, so many threads, not sure what you were referring to…

  5. Don Mowers March 6, 2018 at 7:56 am Reply

    WHY? Why when I post something not off color but relevant to floxing do I get a notice that “your comment is up for review” or NOTHING AND IT IS NEVER POSTED? Only replies to individual posts seem to be shown. Any answers anyone?

    • L March 7, 2018 at 12:21 pm Reply

      I wouldn’t be too concerned. Sometimes they are reviewed for things like having more than one link in them. Also bear in mind that this is not Lisa’s full time job. It takes time for her to go through all these.

  6. Peter March 6, 2018 at 1:07 pm Reply

    Tinnitus can be due to a number of things. Besides the effects of the antibiotics, it can be due to pressure on a delicate bone by the ear, which could be under pressure from stress in the jaw (have you been grinding your teeth or do you have TMJ?) or ear wax. It can also be caused by heightened activation of a set of neurons in the brain that affect hearing, which is how SSRI’s like Prozac or Zoloft trigger tinnitus. It is possible that the antibiotic affects the same neurons, I don’t know. In any case, I had tinnitus before the floxing, but it was jaw related and stopped by using Invisalign teeth straighteners, which also re-set the jaw bone.

    But then, due to a genetic condition, I started taking an SSRI, and the tinnitus came on strong until I reduced dosage and the body got used to the SSRI. Cipro seems to have
    contributed to it. Since then, following the regime, the tinnitus is greatly reduced and I don’t notice it. I also notice that if I start to notice the tinnitus, when I clear the pressure in my ears, as when on a plane flight,
    the tinnitus diminishes, which means I need to remove some ear wax.

    Chiropractic is said to help if the tinnitus is jaw related. Acupuncture is also said to help with that, and possibly if the tinnitus is due to over-stimulated neurons. If you are taking other meds, you may want to discuss with your doctor if experimenting with lower dosage might be attempted, to see if the tinnitus is reduced as a result.

    Tinnitus is elusive, because it can be caused by many things, but there is a cause for it, and the cause is particular to you. You need to determine which cause is
    the one that is causing your case of tinnitus. If your stress goes to your jaw, that is a good place to start, and start doing breathing exercises. Get a CD called “Breathing – the Master Key to Self Healing” by Andrew Weil. On Amazon. He was a professor of mine many years ago and is a very good resource for integrated medicine treatments. The exercises will help with more than just reducing stress. They are very powerful for regulating the central nervous system and all the systems it controls if done regularly.

    Again, run any such advice by your health care practitioner before implementing. I am not a doctor and only speaking from my personal experience. My health situation is unique, due to genetic factors, so each person should consult with a professional before impulsively trying the first thing presented to you by someone you don’t know.

    • L March 6, 2018 at 1:58 pm Reply

      There are hundreds of ototoxic drugs, the fluoroquinolones being among them. I would guess that if the tinnitus started after the drugs it is related to that.

      • A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 3:47 pm Reply

        I was floxed in September of 2015 and the tinnitus didn’t start until March 1 of this year. So definately post floxing, but so long that I wasn’t sure the FQ was to blame.

        • L March 6, 2018 at 5:44 pm

          Ah well then, that could certainly be a different story. Mine was within weeks or months of the floxing (all kind of a blur now three years later.) It was so weird too because I can recall a couple years ago, someone posted on this site that they could “hear the electricity in the walls.” I didn’t find that odd since I had such severe olfactory damage from the cipro that I could smell things no one else smelled. (Really nightmarish—common everyday scents were so asphyxiating I became a prisoner in my apartment. IT would have been a deal-breaker had it not finally (mostly) resolved.) So I thought if my nose could be that ultra “perceptive” why couldn’t someone’s hearing? In retrospect, I think perhaps that person had tinnitus and didn’t know it—because mine is a kind of hissing/buzzing sound that has a kind of electricity tone to it.

    • A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 3:45 pm Reply

      Peter, thanks for your reply. I don’t think my problem is jaw related. I don’t grind my jaw or have TMJ. But I wonder if a series of recent visits to the chiropractor might not have caused the tinnitus. I had a very stiff sore neck that wasn’t going away and went to see a chiro. I had my third visit this last Friday. Can they cause tinnitus, if they can reverse it??? I am under too much stress too – floxie and work related.

      I tried to put some H2O2 in my ear this morning and let it do its thing to remove ear wax, but will go get a Murine or Debrox kit at the drug store on my way home from work. I don’t think it is wax, but maybe I will be lucky. I was once diagnosed with impacted wax, but I think it was in the ear that isn’t having problems. Just tried the ear pressurization trick and my ear drums popped, but I noticed no change in the level of the buzzing.

      I already made an appointment with an ENT, but can’t get in until 3/19. If I am lucky this will resolve by then. My half day with the buzzing wasn’t bad last week and even yesterday I mostly ignored it thinking it would go away when I slept. Now I need to start learning how to block it out. Right now mine isn’t loud at all and it is only noticeable when the room is totally quiet. Your comments about learning to live with it are encouraging. Thank you.

  7. Don Mowers March 10, 2018 at 9:50 am Reply

    I just ran on to this web site https://homeopathicassociates.com/
    It discusses poisoning from Fluoroquinolone antibiotics as well as many other toxicities induced by other drugs. I give no approval or any other suggestion. Just passing it on.
    If your interested read what is available on the web site.

    • L March 10, 2018 at 10:48 am Reply

      Didn’t find the article, but I noticed mention of the homeopathic Cipro treatment which makes me very nervous. I know with homeopathy they introduce a small amount of the actual substance that they are trying to eliminate, which makes sense for other types of treatments…but knowing how such a small amount of Cipro can do so much damage I would be leery of reintroducing it to my system.

      • Don Mowers March 10, 2018 at 12:03 pm Reply

        Your opinion. I just put it out there as something that someone might want to investigate. By reading through the different explanations on the web pages they explain how minute the amount of fluoride is that they claim to use. Do they have the answer? Does anyone have the answer?

        • L March 10, 2018 at 12:19 pm

          and I was just stating my opinion, as you say.

      • Bob March 10, 2018 at 3:00 pm Reply

        I am doing homeopathic cipro treatment right now. I feel I am slowly getting better. The frequency of the homeopathic cancels out and reverses the damage of the cipro. I am also clearing out ever drug I ever had with homeopathics.

        • L March 10, 2018 at 3:21 pm

          well, that’s good to hear. glad it is working for you. I had heard about it a couple years ago but was too reticent to try it.

        • Bob March 10, 2018 at 4:28 pm

          I`II keep everyone posted. IT’S a long term treatment.

        • Don Mowers March 10, 2018 at 3:27 pm

          Thank you. I was just trying to pass on information that someone might want to look into. From what I did read on the site it appears that $$$$ ($$$$ from your pocket) are involved if you actually want anything from them. Being skeptical or critical of anything in this “being floxed” would be normal. It certainly appears that many doctors and big pharma are not going to be of any help. The first step in “correction” is to admit the problem and they certainly have not.

      • ursula March 16, 2018 at 11:48 pm Reply

        L we all are scared of homeocipro as just the thought makes me anxious, I am scared of most meds now, the thing is with homeopathy, in the remedy, that is left is only the memory (energy/ frequancy) of the cipro and then the body builds immunity against it, others help me that is the way i understand it. like they give ebstein barr virus “memory” to one suffering from the EBV and then the immunity kicks in better, i myself doesnt know if it works or understand it really, if someone else can explain? it seems the homeopaths only work on immunity against all inflammation as inflammation is the cause of all illness. Sorry my english.
        I am not a cipro victim i am a mefloquine anti malarial victim, took me 2 years to get to 80 recovery, i just waited it out, although i had to use sleeping tab first 5 months and ativan first 7 months. I had all the symtoms, my tinitis 2.5 years then mostly gone, had a good 2 years then (of which the last year i ate more or less terry wahls protocol) and guess what then severe perimenopause cicked in and here we go again severe anxiety etc, im 50, think im near the menopause, its hell there are groups for us and the woman really suffers, most doesnt as we know just hot flashes, but believe it or not many many are about housebound.

        • jat92517 March 17, 2018 at 4:24 am

          I hate to say it, but I don’t think our immune system plays a role in healing from being floxied. The immune system works by your body making antibodies – fancy word for a chemical that combines with the invading living agent capable of reproducing (viruses and bacteria). Once combined the agent has a long Chemical tail and then another one. This structure ties up water and leave us through the mucus membrains in our sinuses and intestines. The body has to make a specific chemical configuration at the end of the antibody for each new virus/agent.

          The problem with the FQs and other things like pesticides, fungicides (all ‘cides) is they are highly reactive and don’t stay in the blood stream very long before they attach to the next thing they hit – a cell, and chemically react and alter its molecular structure. For an antibody to attach to a ‘cide it must be in a high concentration so the ‘cide sees it first. Antibodies aren’t that concentrated.

          The long or slow cure time is due to the FQ’s and ‘cides combine/react with minerals with two positive charges. These render the FQ’s insoluable and they form a fine powder that leaves with the urine. Urine always contains some powder made this way. Fortunately our bodies can tolerate very high levels of magnesium ions (unfornately It cannot tolerate high levels of the other minerals). So magnesium ions in your blood are a friendly way to eliminate FQ’s a s ‘cides – shorting the time it takes to reduce the effects.

          Unfortunately the FQ’s are so reactive they leave behind a wake of Chemical destruction that depletes us of all the repair vitamins, minerals, and other chemistry we make in our organs. Restoring these levels takes a while. As magnesium is second highest percentage by weight (calcium is first) it takes a while for it to satisfy our cells and then build new cells. Worse magnesium has been deleted from our vegatables in the US, so we can’t get the normal amount needed never mind the catchup amount.

          It is important to restore the magnesium levels inside our cells first as the rebuilding process will steal it and other nutrients from our muscles first. This leaves us weak and it can go far enough to be bed ridden. Oy.

          This post has lots of information on how to restore magnesium.

          Hope this helps you to a better understanding and a speedy recovery.

          John Taylor

        • Don Mowers March 17, 2018 at 4:45 am

          Interesting information. From all I read bolstering one’s system with adequate magnesium is the first step needed for starting a recovery. I read that magnesium taken in pill form can have an effective absorption rate from as low as 4% up to 20%. This seems to mean that one is not getting the magnesium replenishment they think they are. I read that Dr. Carolyn Dean has a liquid magnesium (Remax) that is highly concentrated that can bypass the digestive system and go directly to the cells for nearly 100% efficiency. I also read that Angstrom magnesium (not nearly as strong a liquid) is also a very good source of high efficiency magnesium.
          I think the key to better recovery is to learn all the places where “fluoride” is hiding and eliminate them as much as possible. As one looks deeper they will be amazed at all the places where “fluoride” is hiding.

  8. Dave March 10, 2018 at 4:34 pm Reply

    It’s magnesium deficiency. Cipro sucks it out of your cells at the mitochondrial level. I was in a wheelchair for four months . Completely recovered after magnesium regimen. You can take it in pill form not salts. Check symptoms of magnesium deficiency on line. They are all the same as what you are experiencing. My doctors figured this out quickly. I’m shocked people are still unaware of this information about magnesium. Please please start. You will notice changes within first weeks.

    • L March 10, 2018 at 4:43 pm Reply

      Magnesium is important but it is just ONE part of the equation. I was getting 800-1000 mg a day for months. IT was not until I started IV therapy that I started improving.

      • Barbara Arnold March 10, 2018 at 6:55 pm Reply

        L. Serrapeptase. Sorry there was no reply marker on your answer to me regarding lung issue’s. I recommended nano silver, and you said you found serrapeptase helps, so I wondered where you got it from.

        • L March 10, 2018 at 7:09 pm

          oh, ok. I don’t know why the reply doesn’t show up on some posts. Well, I have used two different lines but the one I currently am using is by Doctors Best. I get ALL my supplements from Vita Cost. Can’t remember…are you in the states? They ship for free on orders over $49 and the best prices hands down. (They also ship internationally but I don’t know about rates.) https://www.vitacost.com/

        • Barbara Arnold March 11, 2018 at 3:21 am

          Thanks L. No I am in Spain, but I can get Doctors Best products here.

        • Andrea March 11, 2018 at 6:20 am

          HI. If by Nano Silver you mean Colloidal Silver, I would be carefoul with it. I’ve read that it can cause Argyria, something not funny at all. Now, I don’t know how high the chanses are, but still…

        • Barbara Arnold March 11, 2018 at 7:41 pm

          Andrea, nano silver has smaller particles than colloidal silver. Both are very safe if used properly. Colloidal silver has been used for hundreds of years for different ailments. The case of argyria is extremely rare and is caused by improper use. There is tons of information on the net about this and nano silver. Kerrie Knox is a great believer in nano silver, so she recommends it. I have done a lot of research on it and for myself I am very happy to use it. Each of us should research THOROUGHLY before we take anything that has helped others.

        • Don Mowers March 12, 2018 at 9:06 am

          Ionic silver products, when taken according to the manufacturers recommended dosage, will not cause argyria, a condition that causes the skin to turn blue-gray. Due to the very low concentration of ionic silver and small particle size, true silver colloids do not cause argyria, a condition that causes the skin to turn blue-gray. Argyria happens when the silver particles are too large to be used by the body. The silver particles that can not be expelled migrate to the skin and when exposed to light (“tarnish”) and leave the skin with a blue cast.
          http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html?partner=37&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI69D24pHn2QIVlIF-Ch3ArgVpEAAYASAAEgKgjPD_BwE

        • Andrea March 12, 2018 at 10:21 am

          To Barbara. All right, I just wanted to let you know what I’ve read, but I seee you’re already well informed. Now, let me ask you why do you use it, what is it supposed to do?

      • Don Mowers March 17, 2018 at 4:52 am Reply

        800 to 1,000 mg. From what I am reading magnesium in pill form has a true absorption rate of from 4% up to 20%. This would mean that at 1,000 mg you were really getting about 200 mg of usable magnesium at best. This most likely explains why you got such good results from IV magnesium. Just speculating from what I am reading.

        • L March 17, 2018 at 10:56 am

          Well that was in addition to food sources of mag. Plus some forms are more absorbable than others

        • jat92517 March 17, 2018 at 4:32 pm

          Don,

          Spot on. A 200 lbs person has about 1 gram or 1000 mg of magensiin dissolved in the blood. 500 mg is the typical consumption. If you are deficient as Floxies can expect they are – with muscle loss certainly – then transdermal with its 30 grams per day rate (foot soaks) is one way to recover. This is a lot cheaper than IVs but whatever floats your boat, get it done.

        • Don Mowers March 17, 2018 at 4:58 pm

          About foot soaks. I am reading that people with diabetes should refrain from foot soaks. The reason given is that foot soaks can dry out the feet and they might develop cracks that could become infected and the last thing a diabetic wants is infected feet. With all the varied opinions about everything on the net I must read this with tongue in cheek.

        • Peter March 19, 2018 at 9:17 am

          Agree to comment regarding being careful with foot soaks. I have received great benefit from doing Epsom salt foot soaks, without side effects, but the last one created some dryness and light cracking in one foot. I had done soaks two days in a row, and with a bit more salts than usual, and for a little longer than usual. I find 2 lbs maximum and 15 minutes maximum work for me, in enough water in a foot tub to cover the ankles. I am not diabetic. It is apparent I crossed over a threshold as far as what my body could absorb without side effects. I will be waiting a bit before doing another soak, and will use Mg spray or gel on the skin in specific locations on the body until my feet are back to normal. Check with your doctor before applying such treatments.

    • L March 10, 2018 at 4:46 pm Reply

      BTW, Dr Jay Cohen, who studied these drugs and wrote the book “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The Worst Medication Disaster In US History,” mentions magnesium as one of MANY supplements that can help. Pretty much everyone on this site is aware of magnesium’s role and taking it in some form.

    • Don Mowers March 16, 2018 at 12:42 am Reply

      I have begun to use Dr. Carolyn Dean’s liquid magnesium. (ReMag) It is touted as being a “pico magnesium” and being a very small molecule that when ingested goes directly to the cells and does not pass through the digestive system so no diarrhea problems. Just half way through the first bottle but looking forward to better things ahead. It is very disturbing how magnesium is so important but so overlooked or maybe ignored by the medical establishment. Their focus seems to be on treating illness with their prescription drugs and not on correcting the underlying cause of the problem.
      Treatment means more $$$$ and curing is not profitable. Sad statement but more true than not.

  9. Andrea March 11, 2018 at 6:23 am Reply

    From Wikipedia :
    “While silver is potentially toxic to humans at high doses, the risk of serious harm from low doses, given over a short term, is slight. Treatment of external infections is considered safe; oral use of colloidal silver is safe for short term administration if the dose is low. Silver is used in some medical appliances because of its anti-microbial nature, which stems from the oligodynamic effect. Chronic ingestion or inhalation of silver preparations (especially colloidal silver) can lead to argyria in the skin and other organs. This is not life-threatening, but is considered by most to be cosmetically undesirable.”

    • L March 11, 2018 at 3:01 pm Reply

      So I just got a notification of who searched my linked in profile …and one was Johnson and Johnson. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

      But I digress. I had mentioned taking serrapeptase and it is helping with breathing issues (it liquifies mucus.) Anyhow, I was reading more about it and I also saw listed several places that it can help with pain. I no longer have this issue, but I know many on this site do, so it is something you might want to research.

      • Andrea March 13, 2018 at 12:35 pm Reply

        Hi L, Can you explain this : “So I just got a notification of who searched my linked in profile …and one was Johnson and Johnson.”

    • L March 11, 2018 at 3:07 pm Reply

      My integrative MD had me on it for a month (oral) and the brand he gave me had WAY higher amounts of it in the solution (3600 ppm as opposed to 500 ppm in another one I had picked up.)

      Not a real fan of Wikipedia. Although I am not saying whether this is accurate or not. (When I was doing a masters thesis we were not allowed to use it as a source because it is not reliable.) Interestingly, here is an essay on that very thing….ON Wikipedia! (Well I give them credit for their inclusiveness!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academic_use

    • Barbara Arnold March 12, 2018 at 6:35 pm Reply

      Thanks Andrea, for your info anyway. I use it when I travel to keep the bugs at bay in foreign Countries. I also use it to get rid of mucus in my lungs. I use the one Kerri Knox recommends, and I spray it in my mouth. It seems to work well for me. I can’t remember but apparently it’s used for a myrad of things. Easy to google it.

    • Don Mowers March 13, 2018 at 8:13 am Reply

      Argyria from properly made and properly used Colloidal Silver is balderdash. Now notice….. I said properly made and properly used. Argyria is caused by the silver particles being too large to be used in the body and they migrate to just under the skin where when subjected to light they “tarnish” causing the blue cast in the skin. Over use of Colloidal Silver (drinking up to a pint a day) can cause Argyria. It was a some what common thing 100 years ago because before making silver solutions using electricity, silver was ground up and given to people. The body was not capable of processing most of the silver powder so what could not be eliminated migrated to the skin and produced what is called Argyria. Ironically……. Science is now finding out that adding silver to current antibiotics is making them much more effective and some antibiotics that became ineffective are now working when silver is added to them. There is a wealth of information about Colloidal Silver on the web beyond Wikipedia.

  10. Andrea March 13, 2018 at 6:24 am Reply

    Hi everyone. Today I’ve done a cistoscopy. Long story short the doctor prescribed me Fosfomycin to take for 2 days. Any info about it? I’m supposed to take it tonight, to avoid any infection. I’m already taking d-mannose and cranberry.

    • Don Mowers March 13, 2018 at 7:43 am Reply

      My lay person (been floxed by “uninformed” Cipro use for 30+ years and a recent IV dose of Leviquin in the ER) opinion. One who uses D-Mannose. Use the D-Mannose often with plenty of water. Cranberry juice is normally loaded with SUGAR to make it palatable. Bacteria LOVE sugar. For Cranberry the best is to use Cranberry extract pills because they don’t contain sugar and they do contain some D-Mannose.

      I use Colloidal Silver. Buying the “good stuff” @ about 10 to 20 PPM is as good as the high PPM stuff. To get the high PPM stuff most times salts are added. Adding “ANYTHING” to the distilled water means that one can not check the the strength of the silver suspended in the water. What are you buying? Salts or silver? I make my own Colloidal Silver with distilled water in a GLASS container, 99.9% pure silver wire and 36 volts of electric current from 4 —– 9 Volt batteries. The ultimate secret to making your own “quality” Colloidal Silver is to limit the current from the batteries to 1/10 of one milliamp by adding an IC current limiter in the negative lead from the batteries. Takes me a minimum of 3 days to get my (small particle “nano silver) Colloidal Silver to my target of about 15 PPM. I have used this Colloidal Silver for about 7 years “and I ain’t blue yet”.
      Quality Colloidal Silver generators are also available from Silver Edge. http://www.thesilveredge.com/ There is also a large wealth of information available on this site.
      Be advised………….. All this is my opinion and my experience, I in no way call it a recommendation.

    • Don Mowers March 13, 2018 at 7:48 am Reply
    • L March 13, 2018 at 8:03 am Reply

      I don’t know anything about that but you might want to up your Vitamins C and A and also pick up something called Urinary System Support by Herb pharm. (These are all part of the protocol used to treat UTIs. (The actual treatment dosages are a bit complicated. They start with super high amounts of A and then decrease everyday. An ND or integrative doc, esp a female, would probably have the formual) but even just adding these things I think would be a good idea.

  11. Don Mowers March 13, 2018 at 8:48 am Reply

    BIOPERINE……….. What is a Bioperine?
    Bioperine is a standardized piperine composition derived from black pepper extract. Made by Sabinsa, it is a standardized extract from the fruit of Piper nigrum (black pepper) or Piper longum (long pepper). It contains 95 percent piperine, which has potential health benefits.
    Bioperine is added to many different herbals. Bioperine is said to be exponential in improving the affects of things it is added to.
    Bioperine can be bought in capsule form at any health food outlet.
    Just a thought………. Maybe adding a capsule of Bioperine to what you are now taking might improve its effectiveness.
    Maybe it is worth looking into???

  12. Andrea March 13, 2018 at 12:35 pm Reply

    Thanks everyone

  13. Don Mowers March 16, 2018 at 12:22 am Reply

    I just became aware of something that I would like to pass on. BOSWELLIA SERRATA According to what I am reading Boswellia Serrata seems to have a big affect on mucous in the bronchial tubes and lungs. I have used it before for it’s ability to fight pain because it helps to block the Cox 2 enzymes. I have started using it again and am finding that it is really helping the bronchial mucous problem I have. Googled information says that using Boswellia Serrata and Thyme greatly reduce bronchial mucous and coughing. I am finding this to be true. As usual, do your own research on this and decide for yourself if it is for you. To your better bronchial health. Don

  14. Kurt March 19, 2018 at 10:43 am Reply

    Since being floxed, alcohol seems to have no effect on me. Went out to a concert this past weekend, and had a few drinks and didn’t feel anything! Anyone else experience this?

    • L March 19, 2018 at 10:46 am Reply

      I had just the opposite. Couldn’t have anything for a year. Now one glass of wine and I’m done. Before would occasionally have 2 or 3. No more. Which I s probably good!

  15. A.Coleman March 19, 2018 at 2:45 pm Reply

    Need an opinion from my fellow floxies. Can I consider taking a muscle relaxer: flexeril (Cyclobenzaprene) specifically? I have been having lots of upper neck issues and it may have lead to tinnitus – I know the FQ can do that, but it has been 2 1/2 years post floxing before the tinnitus onset, so ENT, who was very aware of impacts of FQs didn’t think that was too likely.

    Already tried chiro treatment for the neck, but ENT and audiologist think that may have contributed to the problem. I did NOT have tinnitus before I started chiro treatments!!

    Sounds like mixed results with muscle relaxers on the boards. Some report taking, some report avoiding, but none report the exact impact. Those who seem to be taking them are mostly still so afflicted that it may be hard to discern their impact. Me – I am getting close, maybe 90% healed, so hoping to get the rest of the way not march backward.

    I would love to quickly tackle the tinnitus issue and get back to the minor issues that I was working to overcome in my path to recovery. Only other options left for neck are massage and waiting and hoping (the standard floxie approach.

    Thanks for your feedback

    • L March 19, 2018 at 3:30 pm Reply

      I have had Xanax for airplane claustrophobia. Not sure that is in sane family had no ill effects from it. Re the tinnitus, like anything else related to these toxins I am not sure I agree with your doctor. I think side effects can occur far past the initial insult I Igot tinnitus post cipro and think I had it earlier than I realized. I had horrific olfactory and vision issues that I think were mostly nerve related and I believe the same person s true to f the tinnitus. I had SO much going on I am not sure when it started. I just remember talking with s friend and asking if when it’s compmetely quiet if she hears nothing or hears Lind then f ambient sound like humming, buzzing. It was then I had my “aha” moment. It’s only gotten worse so I’m f you for be anything helps be sure to post!

  16. Andrea March 19, 2018 at 3:12 pm Reply

    Hi A. Coleman. I can’t give you the proper answer, because I don’t know much about muscle relaxers and if they can mess you up even worse. But I can tell you that, this is just my expereince of course, the less I use any king of drug/medication the better. I definetly became more sensitive to anything that is chemical. Have you tried acupuncture / electroacupuncture instead?
    Now that I’m here, I take the opportunity to ask you, and to anyone else , if you ever tried medical cannabis. They say is very useful for aches and pains. I know this has already been discussed but I’d need some first hand infos. Thank you.

    • Don Mowers March 19, 2018 at 4:35 pm Reply

      Andrea. I don’t know about the cannabis “marijuana” (with THC) but I can say that CBD oil can be beneficial in many ways. Some say it is great for pain but I don’t seem to get much benefit from the CBD oil for pain. Where it helps me out is with anxiety. I have anxiety that can come from no where in and instant. The CBD oil seems to help when this happens. It is really disturbing when one is almost asleep and the anxiety hits. CBD oil before bed time seems to help this problem. I have found “zero” negative side effects from it. Works different for everyone so the only way to find out if it helps you is to try it. If you try it be sure that you are getting the best. Trying junk (and there is plenty on the market) will only disappoint you. Investigate Hemp Land USA.
      http://www.hemlandusa.com

      • L March 19, 2018 at 5:23 pm Reply

        That just reminded me. I am taking serrapeptase for respiratory issues and I recall in my research that some use it for pain. I think it is very anti inflammatory so if that is the cause of the pain it might be worth looking into

        • A.Coleman March 20, 2018 at 8:03 am

          Thanks L, if I don’t take the muscle relaxer I will ask about the serrapeptase because an anti-inflamatory is what I am after.

          My ENT mentioned he would normally presscribe a steroid, but knew not to try that with a floxie. He also mentioned NSAIDs which I also quickly shot down.

          Bad enough the FQs mess us but also leave us with so few other options in terms of traditional meds.

        • jat92517 March 20, 2018 at 8:36 am

          Magnesium allows your muscles to relax and stretch out. There are three salts involved in muscle operation. They switch from inside to outside the cell when the electric signal energizes and denergizes. If your muscles are hard, stiff, and can’t stretch — that Is low magnesium. The other two are calcium and potassium. When they are all up to snuff, you are cured. Otherwise the other chemicals just provide temporary relief. It can take weeks to fully resolve but you should feel relief in a day or two —- and then it will come back. Stiffness when you get up,from resting is the last symptom to go.

          Epsom salt, however you get it. 20 – 30 grams per day. If you have tight muscles you probably are 400-500 grams below what you need.

          LOL, good luck

    • A.Coleman March 20, 2018 at 8:01 am Reply

      Andrea, thanks I should have already mentioned that I have been using acupuncture for my floxie symptoms for the last 2 plus years. It helps some things a lot and others not at all.

      I already had one treatment for the tinnitus and will be adding in treatment for the neck issues too. Initial results are inconclusive. I have two more acupuncture sessions already set this week.

      Other than meds to knock me out for colonscopy and endoscopy early in floxie reaction I haven’t had any western meds since being floxed. I have refused even flu shots. I primarily rely on vitamins and minerals to aid recovery.

      If I do take the flexeril I will be sure to share the impact to me.

    • harriet March 30, 2018 at 2:28 pm Reply

      Drugs are sheer c… Did you know that clobazam, lyrica, neurontin cause congestion of the ear?xxx

  17. jérôme March 21, 2018 at 5:45 am Reply

    jat92517,do you feel better with Epsom baths?

    • jat92517 March 22, 2018 at 4:59 am Reply

      Yes. It is doing several things.
      1 It chelates with the Cipro to remove It from my body. That took three days so on Nov 1 I started the nutritional recovery.
      2 It is an import part of nutritional recovery as Magnesium is the largest mineral in your body by weight. A 200 pound person has about 10 pound or 5000 mg of magnesium. The Cipro depleted me of about 1500 mg. It is part of muscle contraction/relaxation, nerve signals and brain function. A soak give you about 30 mg, so it will take a while.
      3 I am still recovering nutritionally and right now I am down to relieving stiff muscles when I stand up and start walking after sitting for a while. I see a benefit from a daily soak. I can walk outside about 0.1 miles…but I can walk inside all day for normal activities.

      I made a major mistake. Somehow I lost half my muscle weight below my rib cage. This weakened my back. I have three damaged disks So the nerves got pinched and put me in the hospital on December 12th. In addition to the shooting pain, My right leg had a very painful Charley horse. The entire leg was rock hard. I could not stand on it – it would fold up. 41 days later I was released and able to go home on 3 nasty meds and in less pain – Jan 14th. 2 days of turmeric soothed the pinched nerve and the Epsom salts softened the stiff muscles enough to reduce the pain.

      Now two months later I have rebuild 25% of the muscle I lost and continue to excercise to regain all my old capabilities. I can earn a living again. I am off all Western medication. My brain recovered from the gabapentin about March 5th. My digestive system has a ways to go still.

      My mistake was this. I was using UVB to make Vitamin D and combine it with MSM. It think I was doing too much of that in November and the bone, tendon, cartilage rebuilding needed more magnesium than I could acquire. It think your body scavenges magnesium from your muscles and that is why the Charley horses showed up. Vitamin has a priority as to what it repairs first. Bones, tendons and cartilage are first, then sleep when the level rises to 30. Glucose control is next but that requires a liver free of fat. They say less than 3-5 pounds of belly fat.

      Now I am starting the UVB slowly. On days I do, I sleep very well – delicious. But it takes days for my muscles to be free of leg cramps. I am now using UVB twice a week.

      Before the Cipro once a week for Epsom salt was enough.

      The Vitamin D – MSM combination is important for blood glucose control, arthritis, brain and muscle glucose levels (diabetes) and other repairs. Your brain functions better when it is fed.

      So yes I do feel a benefit from the Epsom salt soaks. As far a cracked feet go, I eat 3 spoonfuls of coconut oil a day. When you body has enough oil it expresses itself in your skin – not drymleg

      • jérôme March 28, 2018 at 11:52 am Reply

        Do you think Epsom baths work as well on a 26 months floxing? magnesium didn’t do a damn thing for me since the beginning and that’s a great frustration because magnesium is said to be so important for us!

        • jat92517 March 28, 2018 at 5:56 pm

          Jerome,

          That is a tough question to answer as there are so many factors. If you can sort how you feel into either the feeling of being floxed or suffering from the nutritional deficiency caused by being floxed, then yes.

          In general we are all magnesium deficient in the US as it is not in our green vegatables any more. Your body has a high demand for magnesium if it is building bones or needs to repair or grow nerves, tendons, and muscle.

          Magnesium increases can cause unpleasant feelings: muscles twitch or are painful at first. If you get any reaction at all it probably is the start of n improvement.s

        • jat92517 March 28, 2018 at 6:00 pm

          Jerome,

          I missed the word bath. To ge effective and affordable it really needs to be afoot soak with about 2 pounds of salt in a quart.Make sure you have some salt remaining on the bottom or you will not do much of anything.

          John

        • Don Mowers April 1, 2018 at 8:28 am

          This reply is for Jerome but it seems to only be directed to Harriet. Jerome. … Are you taking magnesium pills? The word by Doctor Carolyn Dean is that magnesium pills are proven to be about 4% to 20% absorbed. One reaches the level of gastrointestinal upset before the magnesium level is high enough to be beyond the maintenance level. Dr. Dean says that her liquid “RemMax” or “Angstrom” liquid magnesium are two that can be used and will avoid gastrointestinal upset because they bypass the digestive system and nearly 100% of the magnesium goes directly to the cells of the body. Foot soaks, full body soaks, trans dermal application of magnesium oil and the “pico” magnesium of ReMax and Angstrom (both liquids) are said to be far more effective than magnesium pills. Is this right? I don’t know but I trust the professionals to know.

        • jat92517 April 1, 2018 at 10:42 am

          Absolutely right and you can get a six month’s supply of Epsom Salts for 3 bucks on a supermarket.

    • jat92517 March 22, 2018 at 5:02 am Reply

      Computer locked up. No dry legs in the winter, no cracked finger tips, and soft calisus on my feet.

  18. Andrea March 21, 2018 at 2:07 pm Reply

    Hi guys. In the last few months my urologic problems have worsened. I’m now suffering not only from frequent urination but urinary retention too. Electroacupuncture seemed to help, a little, but it’s very expensive, so I’m planning to buy a TENS Unit, for some DIY sessions. Anyway, today the urologist suggested me a “new” supplement, sponsored for pelvic/prostate pain. Obviously I googled it, and what I found out seems very interesting. First of all, it is not something specific for urological problems (I don’t know why they sell it specificly for that reason) but in reality is a fatty acid amid,with, allegedly, anti-inflammatory, anti-nociceptive, neuroprotective,and anticonvulsant properties. All interesting facts for us floxies. It was discovered in 1957, but what really got my attention was that, in 1993, Italian Nobel Prize laureate, Rita Levi Montalcini, made an important discovery revealing it’s mechanism of action.
    Needless to say that tomorrow I’m gonna try it, and, as always, I’m gonna keep you updated on my reaction. Good luck to everyone.
    Oh, of course, the name is Palmitoylethanolamide. Here’s a couple of links :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmitoylethanolamide

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3596927/

    • Don Mowers March 21, 2018 at 5:53 pm Reply

      Are you acquainted with D-Mannose? Google it and learn about it. It could possibly be of help to your problems.

      • L March 21, 2018 at 7:27 pm Reply

        Actually D mannose is helpful in preventing UTIs / and is part of a protocol to help treat utis. It does not actually kill the bacteria but helps prevent from sticking to the wall.

        • Don Mowers March 21, 2018 at 8:05 pm

          Correct.

      • Andrea March 22, 2018 at 6:16 am Reply

        Hi Don, yes I’ve used D-mannose recently, when I did a cistoscopy,as a prevention for UTI. The doctor, of course, wanted me to take an antibiotic, but I refused. Hopefully everything went fine. Maybe it was the D- Mannose, maybe not. But I don’t think my problem is due to a UTI. I think I’m experiencing some urinary retention. I was diagnosed with a bladder neck sclerosis and a urethral stricture. Strangly enough, everything went downhill after taking the FQ.
        Anyway, today I took my first pill of Palmitoylethanolamide. Let’s see if there’s some improvements in the next days. I suggest anyone to read about it, it seems verey interesting. It being used in patients with fibromyalgia and other diseases with chronic pain symptoms. Expecially neuropathic pain.

        • Don Mowers March 22, 2018 at 7:16 am

          Just for those who might not know about D-Mannose. It is NOT and antibiotic. It’s purpose is to cause the walls of the urinary tract to be slippery. Hopefully too slippery for any bacteria to adhere. If the bacteria can not adhere it gets washed away. It’s purpose and the hope is that it is a good preventive. Better to prevent than have to deal with a urinary tract infection and prescription drugs. Doctors seem to dearly love Flouoroqiunolones for treating urinary tract infections but appear to be either ignorant or oblivious to their possible nasty side effects.
          I use D-Mannose a couple of times a week as a preventative because I am subject to chronic urinary tract infections. That’s how I got floxed. The use of Cipro over and over again for 30+ years. And finally a dose of IV Leviquin seemed to put the icing on the cake.

        • Don Mowers March 22, 2018 at 7:31 am

          Palmitoylethanolamide https://www.swansonvitamins.com/life-extension-comfortmax-60-veg-tabs …. 2 pills daily. 30 day supply. Yes it does look interesting.

    • L March 21, 2018 at 7:30 pm Reply

      I had horrible pelvic area pain and pressure (and at one point it felt like I had glass inside me.) The acupuncture helped but it was better with Chinese herbal medicine (my acupuncturist was trained in that as well.) If it makes you feel better it is much better now (and it got better after a year on its own) I have it mildly on occassion

  19. harriet March 24, 2018 at 5:30 am Reply

    Glad it helped you. x

  20. harriet March 24, 2018 at 7:17 am Reply

    Dr Reuben Scott jailed for research fraud.

  21. Toby March 26, 2018 at 8:24 am Reply

    Hi. Could MitoQ help with anxiety and mitochondria recovery? Also with sensitivity to medication and supplements?

  22. L March 27, 2018 at 9:29 am Reply

    I LIVED on smoothies for the first year or so, when I was having so much trouble breathing. IT is literally ALL I consumed. Then it got to be a habbit and to this day I usually have one for lunch. I always used a protein powder, and had read that plant based had higher levels of lead (from the soil.) Consumer Reports just came out with an article on the very thing and it’s not just lead you have to worry about. (Whey based fare better, but then you need to make sure the source is organic.) After reading this, I think I am going to forgo the protein powder altogether (maybe add chia seeds.) https://www.consumerreports.org/dietary-supplements/heavy-metals-in-protein-supplements/?EXTKEY=NH83BBDHN&utm_source=acxiom&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20180327_nsltr_health

  23. jérôme March 28, 2018 at 11:51 am Reply

    jat92517 ,do you think Epsom baths work as well on a 26 months floxing? magnesium didn’t do a damn thing for me since the beginning and that’s a great frustration because magnesium is said to be so important for us!

  24. jérôme March 29, 2018 at 11:27 am Reply

    jat92517, 2 pounds=1 kg? that’s quite pricey if this is a daily bath!

    • jat92517 March 29, 2018 at 11:59 am Reply

      Right. That is why you do a foot soak and save the water.

      • jérôme March 30, 2018 at 11:31 am Reply

        How long do you re use the water?

        • H.Noordhuizen April 2, 2018 at 9:16 am

          Use it untill it’s got that lovely smell of old french goat-cheese;then it’s ready for consumption ;-)) Just kidding,of course ;-))

  25. harriet March 29, 2018 at 3:39 pm Reply

    Do you re heat it?

    • jat92517 March 29, 2018 at 6:39 pm Reply

      No

      • harriet March 31, 2018 at 2:07 pm Reply

        Are u saying that you immerse your feet in cold water and mag salts of course,I was aonly asking.

        • jat92517 April 2, 2018 at 8:41 am

          Yes I do.

        • H.Noordhuizen April 2, 2018 at 9:13 am

          A magnesium-bath works best if used as hot as possible for an optimal uptake of the magnesium.For re-heating you might try using the “Au bain Marie”-method in a different way: put a pan of cooking hot water in your cold mag.salt bath to heat it.

        • jat92517 April 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm

          You are correct.

  26. L March 29, 2018 at 8:56 pm Reply

    Soooo, I’m watching Grey’s Anatomy and a man is revealed to have Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, where his skin is literally pulling away from his body, from…..an antibiotic! They didn’t say which one but of course I immediately thought cipro (or levaquin.) I just wrote them to thank them for the story and gave the resources tab on Lisa’s site here in hopes they will do more stories on the dangers. I am guessing they wouldn’t name the antibiotic by name because of advertisers, but still, the more people realize how horrific these side effect can be, the better.

    • Barbara Arnold March 30, 2018 at 12:41 am Reply

      That’s great L. We have to keep getting it out there. Every little bit helps. Thanks

      • Don Mowers March 30, 2018 at 6:46 am Reply

        I make a post about Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome (poisoning) at least once weekly on my Facebook page. Rather interesting that not “once” have I had a “like” or “comment” about my post. But a smutty trash post can draw hundreds of comments, likes and shares. Brings to mind this quote by Benjamin Franklin. … “We are all born ignorant but one must work hard to remain stupid”.

        • L March 30, 2018 at 9:43 am

          Yeah Don, I rarely get a like either (except from a fellow floxie!) I think there is a general belief of “it will never happen to me,” or they just don’t want to think about it. I am sure some of my friends are thinking “oh come on, enough already.” I am more than three years out and I still warn people almost every day.

        • Don Mowers March 30, 2018 at 11:01 am

          This brings to mind the quote. “Ignorance can be fixed, stupid is forever”. “it will never happen to me” is not a very smart thing to be thinking in the cases of being floxed. Once floxed it’s too late for “do overs”.

        • Mark March 30, 2018 at 12:27 pm

          Join twitter and add the right people and hashtags, works better imo.

        • harriet March 31, 2018 at 2:10 pm

          Don and Mark True very true. Until it happens to them people are not interested. !!!!!

    • Andrea March 30, 2018 at 2:28 pm Reply

      Well done L

  27. Andrea March 30, 2018 at 2:41 pm Reply

    Hi guys, I’ve always wondered one thing.
    Why, many, if not most of us, present so many and so pervasive symptoms, but yet it’s so difficult to track them? For example, I defenelty have peripheral neuropathy symptoms, achy joints and tendons and I often feel weak and dizzy, but every scan, exam, blood test etc. always came out normal? Any thoughts on this?

    • L March 30, 2018 at 3:01 pm Reply

      Dr Todd Plumb, who was himself floxed states that the tests come out negative because the damage is functional as opposed to structural. Stiil it is baffling isn’t it? Perhaps since so much damage is done at the cellular level, and tests are only capable of testing on a grander scale?

      • Andrea March 30, 2018 at 3:14 pm Reply

        Yeah, it could be. As a matter of fact, we floxies should all be tested for oxidative stress and antioxidant levels. I wanted to do that kind of tests, but I’ve read that many of them are not so accurate and reliable.

        • L March 30, 2018 at 3:25 pm

          my integrative MD did a LOT of testing. Some was through the local labs, and others from a place called True Health diagnostics. You can learn about mutations, inflammation, lipids, metabolic, etc

      • Barbara Arnold April 6, 2018 at 3:20 am Reply

        L….do you know of anything that helps with energy ? Since returning from a long flight, my lower legs are really heavy and also some burning, which before was very minimil, but it’s the over all lack of energy that’s getting to me. I take all the usual stuff, ie mag coq10 ubiquinol vitd3 etc. I’m sick of it, because just when you think your getting there it comes back.

        • Don Mowers April 6, 2018 at 8:25 am

          My disclaimer. I am no doctor or “health specialist”. Just another ‘floxie” searching for answers. “ENERGY” Do some research on DMG (N,N-Dimethylglycine) D-Ribose and SAMe.

        • L April 6, 2018 at 9:27 am

          One thin you might try is mitoq. It is expensive, but is supposed to target the mitochondria directly. Here is a link. If you do the three months instead of one and then are not satisfied, they will refund your money (less a fee to ship the bottles back.) https://www.mitoq.com/mitoq-5mg-capsules-60.html

        • A. Coleman April 6, 2018 at 3:45 pm

          Barbara,

          I am right there with you. Neuropathy had become something that occurred one or two days every 4 to 6 weeks for the last year unless I ran at the gym or something like that then in last three weeks came back with a bang. Not as bad as when first floxed, but not pleasant either.

          In my case I am thinking / hoping that it is due to me testing my RBC (not the serum test) for Mg level. To get accurate results I had to go off all vitamins and supplements for one week. During that week I was fine, but sure now I was eating up my stored B and D especially. Since it went so well while off, I tried to start adding back only reduced amounts of B. For next 10 days I was okay at half my previous dose of B complex and then started to notice a few minor issues so added full dose back in. About 10 days after that is when I started having more significant neuropathy.

          Now three weeks later my neuropathy is the worst it has been in a year – great. We just can’t seem to store vitamins and minerals well and hopefully I have learned my lesson for when I start feeling better the next time.

          Adding in ALA helped my neuropathy in the past, but it gives me headaches. I took it for about 6 weeks the last time my neuropathy acted up last year and then stopped successfully. I think it may be chelating out heavy metals, so trying to get better this time without it.

          BTW – My Mg levels in RBC (not serum) was pretty good. I had a 5.7 mg/dl. This is nearly in the range that Dr. Dean recommends (6.0 to 6.5). So I feel confident in really hitting it hard on Vitamin D supplementation provided I slightly increase my Mg supplements along with frequent Epsom Salt baths.

          To work on the energy level I have just started the MitoQ supplement. I had tried CoQ10 in the past with no success, but it is very hard for body to absorb and I am hoping the MitoQ works – it better for its cost – ha.

          I am still struggling with the neuropathy but confident I will get back to my previous level eventually and the MitoQ does seem to be providing me with a bit more energy. Not sure I will ever be neuropathy free, but where I was previously would be acceptable. When you add in that my digestion issues are getting much better I am hopeful.

          Of course the new neck problems and tinnitus that I have developed as part of this relapse may mean I am not ready to say cured. At 2 1/2 years I do get depressed more easily than I did after the first six months even though I feel a lot better now than I did then.

          Let’s always keep providing support for one another.

        • L April 6, 2018 at 6:22 pm

          yes, quite a price! on the other hand, before I was taking coq10, ALA, resveratrol, and several other supplements which came to more than the mitoq. don’t know if you saw but if you do the three month order and then feel like it didn’t do anything (save the bottles!) they will refund less a fee to ship the bottles back (I think like $20) I am doing that trial now myself

  28. jérôme March 31, 2018 at 12:07 pm Reply

    jat92517,I just begun a epsom bath,could you tell me how along can I re use the water?I thought before it was too pricey for a cure but with your idea,it is now manageable!

    • jérôme March 31, 2018 at 12:19 pm Reply

      .

    • jat92517 April 1, 2018 at 4:54 am Reply

      Jerome,

      I probably keep it for 2-3 months. I use a sawed off 5 gallon pail. I put the whole bag of salt in and add water every now and then. When it looks dirty from the dust on my feet, I decant off the liquid and fill it with water again. I never throw that salt away. When the salt gets low, then I clean the whole shibang.

      I am still soaking daily as part of my muscle restoration effort. Slowly the stiffness and immobility when I get up from resting is going away. I am getting my spring back. Sometimes I can feel nerves coming back into service. My balancing muscles in the right leg are not working well. I get two sensations when the soak is satisfying a nerve’s demand for magnesium. One feels like star dust tingling through the calf to the foot. The other is painful. I think a sensor nerve has come back on line and reporting a problem. That goes away in about half an hour I suspect when the tight muscle it found relaxes.

      Cipro caused half my muscle mass below my ribs to disappear. I was bed ridden and in constant pain from a pinched nerve. I had to eat lying down. Rebuilding this muscle is a long slow process. When I stopped loosing muscle it took two months to walk with a walker so I could barely do my ADLs. At four months 30% of that has returned, I am financially productive, and can walk 1/3 of a mile without a cane. Sounds fast is writing but it seems like a long slow process.

      John Taylor

      • jérôme April 1, 2018 at 4:58 am Reply

        Thank you; is it normal that I feel aggravation in my muscles and tendons after one or two soaks?

      • Don Mowers April 1, 2018 at 7:03 am Reply

        May I add something here? Has anyone considered adding Colloidal Silver to their “foot soak” water? Colloidal Silver is great at keeping things sterile. (NASA used it the be sure their shuttle drinking water remained good) It is also good for promoting healing. My thought. If the Epsom Salts foot baths tend to dry the feet and one becomes more subject to foot infections because of this I would think that Colloidal Silver added to the water would be beneficial on many different fronts. Also if the water becomes contaminated from repeated contact with the skin the Colloidal Silver should kill any bacterial contaminants. Comments please.

        • H.Noordhuizen April 1, 2018 at 12:39 pm

          Mixing Coll.Silver in a salty bath is not a good idea.The silver and the salt will combine and form a silversalt. Those particles are too big to pass the skin. Silversalts are the main cause of argyria (silver proteines are the second cause).

          A silver bath is,indeed,not very cost-efficient. A better way is to use magnesium-oil. You can buy that “oil”(called that way because it feels slippery;in fact it is just magnesiumsalt and water). Look for Zechstein magnesiumsalt. It comes as saltflakes or a solution called magnesium-oil,but you can make that “oil” yourself by making a saturated solution of those flakes with (destilled) water.

          You can rub the mag.oil on your skin and let it be absorbed. Rubbed on stiff muscles it helps them to relaxe,but for an optimal absorbtion you can rub it all over your body (except near salt-sensitive places). When having a big magnesium-defficienty the oil may irritate quite severe;than you can add some water to it. For best results don’t wash away the oil;just let it dry on the skin. When irritating too much,keep it on your skin as long as possible before washing it away.Next time just add a bit of water to the solution to make it less strong.

      • A. Coleman April 6, 2018 at 4:01 pm Reply

        John,

        I consider you the guru on Mg levels and Epsom Salt soaks. So, as you can see in an earlier post I did the Mg Red Blood Cell test and my results were pretty good – 5.7 mg/dl. Dr. Dean recommends 6.0 to 6.5, which is high end of “normal”.

        My question for you is have you tested yours yet? If so did the testing procedure reek havoc with other symptoms? For the test I had to go off all vitamins and minerals for a week. As you can see in my earlier post I was still feeling good that week and even for the next 10 days. But eventually my body seems to have used up the meager stores of Vitamin B complex and maybe some D too. My recent D results showed 39 ng/ul, which is a slight decrease from my last reading, but that was in September after summer. I have been taking 6000 IU daily trying to get to 50 ng/ul and maintain there.

        I am hoping / thinking that my current neuropathy issues and some tendon pain as well as neck pain are tied to my time off my vitamins and minerals. Glad I got the Mg results, but sorry it came at this cost.

        My plan in consultation with my integrative medicine doc is to hit the Vitamin D supplementation a bit harder to 7500 IU daily since summer is coming, along with slightly increasing my Mg regimen (I take 200 mg nightly of Mg Gylcinate) and full body Epsom Salt soaks twice a week (I have never tried your approach of just foot bath) with 4 pounds of salt. I throw in Mg Oil (4 to 5 pumps daily on feet and fingers).

        Do you think this is enough Mg or would you up the soaks or go to 300 or 400 mg of Mg Glycinate?

        I do supplement with Vitamin K too so everyone knows.

        Thanks

        • jat92517 April 7, 2018 at 5:46 am

          A. Coleman,

          Thanks for the compliment. I need to know more to fully earn your confidence.

          From your description I would compare your request to someone who has gathered the important reins into his hands and now wants to know:
          Do I have them all?
          How hard to I pull on each one and in what sequence?

          These are very important questions. Getting the Cipro out of your body is simple and takes only days. Restoring the nutritional destruction it has causes takes months. I didn’t do it well and put myself in the hospital for 6 weeks. I survived but it was a close call…and I learned some important things. At 6 months past starting nutritional recovery, I have reached the first level – adequate magnesium levels in my cells.

          The answer you seek has many facets. I’ll start with some generalities.

          I don’t spend much on blood tests to guide me. It is like looking at your checking account to know what is in your savings account. The level in your cells is the important issue. You can have normal magnesium levels in your blood but be grossly deficient in your cells. I go by how I feel to know when I am deficient or have enough.

          You can’t recover nutritionally until the Cipro out of your cells…Saturated Epsom salt foot soaks is the first step. The ‘how to’ is well explained if you read this blog. The temperature of the soak is not significant. Hot is better but it is inconvenient. If you can do it, hot is better for your skin. Time compensates for temperature. What matters is how much you take up in a day.

          There are several first steps in nutritional recovery. One is restoring the magnesium levels in your muscles…and your nerves. You need to do it long enough to so you don’t feel a Charley horse any time during the day. The ultimate test is to not be stiff when get out of a chair after sitting for an hour. I soak daily still.

          Cipro flushes all the micro nutrients out of you body – all vitamins and minerals. Magnesium is hard to replace because we use about 5 kilos in our cells and you only get about 35 grams from a soak. Some of those 35 grams are lost in the urine before they can be absorbed in the cells. Excercise helps muscles pick up magnesium. The nerve firing process causes magnesium, calcium, and potassium to jump in and out of your cells. You can calculate it will take two months for 35 grams to restore 2 kilos. It took me 4 months to bring my magnesium levels to a point where I can start the next nutrient – Vitamin D.

          Nutritional recovery requires vitamins and minerals but it also requires a good supply of stored energy in your cells. Glucose is our primary fuel, it is stored in a solid form called glycogen. Your brain holds 4 days worth and the level is one input to how tired you feel. Your muscles can store 60,000 calories of glucose. That is 30 days of an extra 2,000 calorie diet. It takes a very specific diet to store glucose and not make fat (later). One way to help this is the second rein you can pull on right at the start – eat raw unrefined coconut oil. It is a task as it is tasteless. It provides energy for our cells that does not go through the glucose acquisition process. It is burned first so it saves stored glucose. Three spoonfulls a day is all I manage but more is better.

          Now, for your liver to make all the chemistry you will need to recover it must not have stored fat in it. the standard is less than 5 pounds of visceral fat. Look in the mirror to make a judgement. Lisa recovered in part because she is thin. God bless her. The most nutritious foods high in glucose are dark berries. Eat all you want. The most fat producing food is starch. Starch and other sugars need to be processed into glucose by the liver, so do things that make less work for the liver. When the liver has more carbs available,than it. Can process, you make fat. Even with a fatty liver, you will recover and rebuild your body but if you stay on the fat burning/glucose storing side it will go faster.

          So the first things to do are:
          Epsom slat soaks
          Eat coconut oil
          Eat for glucose and avoid starch.

          Next is raising Vitamin D levels. Vitamin D consumes magnesium to make bones, tendons, and cartilage. That is why you want to restore your stored magnesium first. If the vitamin D gets ahead of the magnesium your body will steal it from your muscles to make tendons, bones, and cartilage. That is what put me in the hospital. Pay attention to how your legs feel and hold back on the Vitamin D.

          You have found the Vitamin D pills are not effective in raising the blood levels even though you have all the ingredients to make bones. Bones get first call on Vitamin D. I am not sure why your levels are not rising. However I know they are low as you are not complaining about only sleeping 2 hours per night. Not sleeping is an indication of adequate Vitamin D and too much Vitamin D (from pills) in your blood. Vitamin D made in your skin with sunlight will not cause lack of sleep but instead will give you wonderful sleep. The pills are chemically different than natural D. Natural D has 7 different Chemical species. The pills contain 3. You need the other four. When you have Vitamin D from sunlight you can’t take the pills. 7000 is way over the 1000 recommended daily allowance and it is not working. The rein you are pulling on is not connected to what you need.

          I have a sunlamp home made with Grainger.com item number36RF98. I exposure a leg for 15 minutes. I notice the effect of low magnesium and wait a few days for that to stop and then do it again. Tanning beds are designed to tan you and you cannot get enough Vitamin D this way. To use natural,sunlight, expose as much skin as possible between 10 AM and 2 PM. Stop with a slight pink. When the pink is gone you can do it again.

          You need the Vitamin D to combine with MSM. This can be stored in your fat cells so you can get a years supply in a few days. To combine D and MSM you need the sunlight. This combination does wonders. It allows deep sleep which in turn raises the brain’s stored glucose. Combines with glucosamine. The combination builds tendons and cartilage. It eliminates tachycardia and reduces chloresterol buildup.

          Your body make MSM from cabbage. I eat coleslaw, red cabbage, and sauerkraut often but still take the pill.

          I need help in getting glucose into my brain and muscles. I take Omega three fish oil, B12 and B5 for the brain but need something else. The D-MSM combo may do it but It would be nice to know this is sufficient or if there is another important chemical. All suggestions are welcome.

          Hope this helps. Please post when your vitamin D levels rises and describe the sleep benefit.

          John Taylor

        • Don Mowers April 7, 2018 at 7:19 am

          Hi John. To quote from your information packed blog. “Saturated Epsom salt foot soaks is the first step”. The ‘how to’ is well explained if you read this blog. The temperature of the soak is not significant. “Hot is better but it is inconvenient”. If you can do it, hot is better for your skin.
          When it comes to reusing the Epsom Salts and whether the solution is hot or cold. I have been looking on line and am seeing electric “bucket heaters” that are available. It appears that the best suited one is a bit pricey at around $50.
          My comment is that if someone wants the solution warm they should look (online) at the array of immersible electric heaters that are available.
          Just one comment here. The less expensive ones are made to only keep buckets and stock tanks from freezing so they do not raise the liquid temperature much above the freezing mark. These obviously would be useless so do not get sucked into buying one.
          Just a comment that may help answer the hot or cold question.
          Don

        • A. Coleman April 10, 2018 at 7:03 pm

          John,

          Thanks so much for your thoughtful and detailed response to my questions.

          I will take your feedback about Vitamin D and consider my approach further. You are correct when you mention my bodies inability to increase D level is puzzling; and maybe supplementing with more Vitamin D is not the best approach until other things are worked out. I would love to sit in the sun and let my body make Vitamin D, but unfortunately I live in Wisconsin and it is still winter here – snow in my yard right now.

          My Vitamin D levels have fluctuated widely since my floxing. First time I was tested about 6 months post floxing I was down to 9 ng/ul and my doc gave me a 10000 IU shot to bring things up quickly. About a year post floxing I got it up to 50 ng/ul and backed off supplementing to try to maintain there. 6 months after that reading I was back down to 29 ng/ul. That was over winter. So next 6 months saw me go up to 42 ng/ul and another 6 months saw me to where I am today at 39. So clearly a seasonal element to my levels. Maybe I can only make Vitamin D with sun exposure and I will have to shoot for levels in the 70s by the end of summer and then supplement to stay in the 50s by end of winter.

          I appreciate your reminders about how muscle contractions work, I actually have a degree in Biochemistry, but haven’t used it much in my life. My main symptoms with floxing are not muscle and tendon related but nerve and digestion related. I have had some minor tendon and muscle issues, but my digestion and associated nutritional absorption issues are the crux of my other problems I am sure. When first floxed I lost 40 lbs in about 2 months and had pretty severe gastroparesis.

          Peripheral neuropathy has generally slowly improved with periods of relapse that range from very minor to significant like I am experiencing now; this is the 2nd worst relapse in nerve issues I have had. Hoping it is tied to dropping all my vitamins and minerals to do the RBC Mg test.

          As to my Mg level; I did NOT do the Mg serum test but did the Red Blood Cell (RBC) test recommended by Dr. Carolyn Dean. This test measures the level of Mg inside of your red blood cells, not in your serum. Dr. Dean considers this to be a good test for Mg, not the gold standard, but her recommended test. I realize that even with my level of 5.7 in my red blood cells I could still be very deficient in my nerve cells.

          So, I have started adding in Epsom Salt foot soaks 2 nights a week to supplement my 2 / week Epsom Salt baths. I still think that when you consider the increased surface area available for absorption of Mg in a bath vs. a foot soak that you will absorb more Mg over the same time frame if you have the same amount of Mg available for absorption. Maybe a bit more in the foot soak given saturation level, but when the lower surface area is compensated, I bet it doesn’t equal the bath.

          I will somewhat disagree with your assessment about cellular energy. I agree that cellular energy problems are at the core of many floxie issues, but don’t think that eating as you suggested will solve all the issues. Remember that Cipro and other FQs target mitochondria, which are the key cellular organelles that create energy in our cells. The inability of our mitochondria to create the needed energy impacts everything from our muscle contractions, to our nerve conduction and the low energy everyone experiences. Of all the things we try to feel better I think that regaining mitochondrial energy is one of the last things recovered.

          While Lisa is quite thin and other fluxes who have recovered more quickly are thin, I think the real issue is the age you are when you are floxed. The older you when floxed the slower recovery.

          Thanks again for your help and well wishes and continued success in your recovery.

          A. Coleman

        • Don Mowers April 10, 2018 at 8:17 pm

          Your comment about the older you are the slower the recovery is a bit frightening to me. I’ll soon be 84. I may run out of time. I have read that it is said to not give the floxacins to anyone over 65. I guess the doctors must be a bit ignorant about this.
          Don 83+

        • jat92517 April 11, 2018 at 10:17 am

          Hi Don,

          I am 70 and recovered in 10 months. If I said anything about age it is not about calendar age but the time since you have beef floxied. Cipro continues to do damage until it is removed. So the longer it takes to remove it, the more you have to repair.

          Since magnesium is the second mineral by weight and it is not possible get more than 2 grams through your intestines, restoring 1000 grams would take 3.5 years. Up your intake to 35 grams a day and your done to 6 weeks. In reality it is more like 3 months. The only way I know how to do that is SATURATEd Epsom Salt foot soaks.

          John Taylor

        • Don Mowers April 11, 2018 at 10:38 am

          I have been taking Dr. Carolyn Dean’s Remax (rather expensive) for the past month or so.
          I had my RBC blood test done and it came back as 6.1. I have just started the foot baths. We will see how it all works out. Along with the many aches, pains and peripheral neuropathy my biggest problem is the constant feeling of being half drunk and wanting to lay down and go to sleep. But at night I have insomnia. I feel more comfortable and stable when my eyes are closed. This drunken dizzy feeling is to say the least disturbing. Very disturbing!

  29. Kurt April 1, 2018 at 4:40 am Reply

    Just had my Health Risk Assessment tests at work recently and I got a health score of 100 out of 100. Apparently I’m very healthy. What a joke. Too bad these tests don’t check cellular damage or I would have gotten a big fat zero!

    • Andrea April 1, 2018 at 6:48 pm Reply

      Hi Kurt.
      I’ve read that there are many blood tests that check your antioxidants and oxidative stress levels, which, according to some studie I’ve read, many times are abnormal, among people who have been exposed to fluoroquinolones. The problem is that, most of these tests are not reliable. But two tests seem more trustable than the others : the d-ROMs and the BAP test. Have you ever heard about them? I’m still trying to find, here in Italy, one laboratory that does these kind of test. It could be intersting…

      • Kurt April 4, 2018 at 6:52 am Reply

        Thanks for the info Andrea. I have not heard of those tests before. Interesting. Happy healing…

  30. harriet April 4, 2018 at 5:02 pm Reply

    http://thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testing/Genova%20Diagnostics%2008.02.18.pdf May be able to point you in the right direction.

    • Andrea April 6, 2018 at 8:12 am Reply

      Thanks Harriet

  31. harriet April 5, 2018 at 3:29 pm Reply
  32. harriet April 5, 2018 at 3:37 pm Reply

    Dr Reuben Scott fabricated research on various drugs but this is not widely known in US>

  33. Don Mowers April 6, 2018 at 8:34 am Reply

    Thank you H.Noordhuizen for your comment. After thinking about it a bit you are 100% correct. The idea of adding silver to the Epsom Salt foot bath is a bad idea. Your entire post is good information.

  34. Kate April 6, 2018 at 7:27 pm Reply

    I really need support. I’ve been bed-ridden for nearly four months now since being floxed in December. Thought I had hit bottom weeks ago, but things just keep getting worse. So much buzzing in head and burning in body, which worsens anytime I do anything slightly strenuous (like get out of bed to use bathroom). We live in two-story house, and I still try and get downstairs once a day. I have to crawl up stairs. My mind won’t let me focus on TV, audio books, or reading, so I just lay here. Would love to hear from others who were this weak and fatigued: how bad can things get? when did you turn the corner? is it safe to assume we all do turn the corner eventually? My friends say, be patient, you’ll be better soon … and … you aren’t still sick, are you? I am eating organic, taking what supplements I can, but feel that if I get any worse, my legs will give out completely. Walking is limited, just in the house. Need wheel chair for going anywhere. Arms don’t work that well anymore, either. So … 4 mos of this and no end in sight. What are others’ experiences who also wound up stuck in bed? Please share what you can — what worked for you, how long it took, etc., etc., rather than just “hang in there” Thanks everyone!

    • L April 6, 2018 at 8:25 pm Reply

      Hi Kate…for about 5 or 6 months I couldn’t do anymore than sick curled in a ball on the couch or bed. My bathroom is just 4 feet from my bed and it would take forever to get there, holding onto furniture on the way. I experienced over 30 side effects the worst being gasping for breath for months, vision problems (couldn’t see tv 4 ft away), olfactory nerve damage to where ALL things, even seemingly without scents, asphyxiated me (just nightmarish), a sense of being strangled and excruciating pain mid back—worse than any pain I had ever experienced. I also had extreme anxiety, paranoia, depression, suicidal ideation, and my gut was ravaged. I lost 1/4 of my body weight. I needed assistance walking, and I felt 24/7 for months on end like I had pneumonia or worse. I can’t describe how ill I felt.

      Once I realized what it was I got myself to a ND who had seen floxies before and did IVs. (Sadly I waited two months, hoping that allopaths would help. They did not. In fact they made things worse by telling me I was hysterical, delusional, etc. The ND was the first one (after TWELVE assorted MDs) who gave me any hope. Within several weeks of starting the IVs I felt like MAYBE things might actually turn around. I would say I started feeling closer to normal at about 18 months, and much improved around 2 years. But again, I was very badly effected (I think getting prednisone at the same time was one reason.)

      For the first six months or so I could not watch TV or listen to music—too stimulating. I just sat in silence (and cried.) The IVs that really helped me were High dose C, Myers, phosphatidylcholone, glutathione and H2O2 (I got that specifically to wean off asthma meds—had I not, he likely would have given me ozone, but there is much overlap.)

      In addition to magnesium, D (LOTS—like 5,000-10,000 units which I still do), probiotics and other vitamins, it’s a good idea to take anything that will help your mitochondria, like co q10 (ubiquinol if you are over 40), Alpha lipoic acid, L- carnitine—there are others. There is also something called MitoQ which is very expensive but is supposed to be able to be more bio-available. (I also got torn meniscus which I successfully remedied with prolozone injections.)

      I would urge you to find an ND or integrative MD who also does IVs. If they are not familiar with FLQ toxicity, find someone who specializes in Lyme. We share many similar side effects. (MY ND—1/2 his patients were Lyme and 1/2 cancer.)

      Perhaps if you post your general area, someone on this site can refer you to someone who has helped them.

    • jat92517 April 7, 2018 at 6:16 am Reply

      Kate,

      I posted a response to A. Coleman that may help you. There is a path and this blog will help you find yours. It takes trial and error. Keeping a log helps.

      If you find a doctor or naturalist or endocrinologist who helps you please post that information for others.

      Nerve damage from Cipro is likely for loss of magnesium and is reserveable with Saturated Epson Salt foot soaks. I lost most of my nerve conductivity in my right leg – a peg leg would have worked better at that time. I was using an external peg leg most people call a walker. Now four months later I can walk 1/2 a mile. All nerve function has returned except I have difficulty lifting my right toes – not bad for starting with a dead leg.

      December to now is about the time it took me to discover removing the Cipro attached to you cells with saturated Epsom Salt foot soaks. That is the first step. It takes four days. The next step is nutritional recovery. That is what I covered in the post to A. Coleman. While it took me 6 months to reach the first level, you can do it in 2 to 4 months as you will know more about how to do it.

      Lisa’s blog helped me to regain my life. I hope it helps you to do the same.

      I am going to do a dance for you and send my angle to help you. So, if you felt some inspiration at 9:15 Saturday that is the arrival of my spiritual helper.

      Good luck and welcome to the power of Lisa’s blog.

      John Taylor

      • jérôme April 7, 2018 at 7:29 am Reply

        John,you didn’t answer me! do you think I can continue Epsom Salts even if I have side effects like joints pain,muscle pain and fatigue? I didn’t feel well after my last foot baths…

        • jat92517 April 8, 2018 at 5:13 am

          Jerome,

          The short answer to your questions is I don’t know how to respond. Your questions are difficult to answer without more information. So breaking it into pieces is a good start….to experience these things you have numerous deficiencies. The question becomes not if but how to go forward. You could well be outside my experience.

          Joint pain will have to come last. In the meantime moving the joint and doing strengthening exercises helps arthritis.

          Fatigue has many causes. Can you describe your sleep experience – going to sleep and waking up? Caffeine causes poor sleep quality. So do artificial sweeteners. Use sugar or Stevia. To get rid of fatigue one needs to sleep very deeply – disconnect your body from your brain. 6 hours of quality sleep is better than 10 hours of poor sleep. What is your Vitamin D level? Sleep is probably the least understood subject in our physiology. I have not been able to find professional help with sleep chemistry. I asked the chairman of the NY sleep doctors association if he could recommend a sleep chemist/doctor. He said “No.” It was as if this was a whole new idea. So let us start with some observations.

          Muscle pain is one place to start. Vitamin D can steal magnesium from your muscles and nerves to make bone. Bone making needs magnesium so, 1- If your Vitamin D level is below 30 this is a problem for muscles. 2- are your muscles hard or loose? 3- Magnesium can reactivate nerves that have low conductivity. Do you have neuropathy in your legs? Loss of sensation? Is this from a pinched nerve or conductivity? A neurologist can tell you. The treatments are different.

          Answering the above muscle questions cost money. If you want to avoid that expense, try some things and observe what your body says. Stop taking Vitamin D for now. Take turmeric – a nerve soother, antiinflamitory – take a pill every time you feel pain, especially in your back. 7,8,9 pills a day if need be. If the pain is better in 3-4 days, a pinched nerve is indicated. If so your must see an orthopedic for X-rays etc. If he says see a physical therapist, do it and work hard on her excercises.

          After the turmeric test do a foot soak and see if the conductivity is the problem. If a muscle hurts it could be that nerve has come back online. The pain will go away as the muscle relaxes. It hasn’t been getting the signal to relax. If the pain goes away in 4 hours, nerve conductivity is a god bet.

          Well this is a start. More observations will help to put 2 and 2 together.

          I feel for you. Cipro can put you in a deep hole and finding the way up can be difficult. We need Bayer to become socially responsible and make a road map. Good luck with that. But many people on this site have done it. Keep trying.

          John Taylor

      • L April 7, 2018 at 8:39 am Reply

        Nerve damage can be permanent. You were fortunate. Others of us not so much, and that is in spite of adequate amounts of magnesium.

        • Bob April 7, 2018 at 10:32 am

          If I accept that nerve damage is permanent I think I would end it all right now.

        • L April 7, 2018 at 11:06 am

          It really depends on the individual. IT does say on the warnings that damage can permanent. Some of my nerve damage has gone away…some hasn’t.

        • jat92517 April 7, 2018 at 12:42 pm

          Hi L,
          Nerve damage from lack of glucose in the nerve cells is permanent. The cell has starved to death. If you suspect low glucose levels – chronically tired, lethargic, crazy dreams, etc. you can quickly up your glucose transport into the nerves with 8 grams of omega 3 fish oil, B12 and B5, and eating raw coconut oil. If the above symptoms improve but the nerves do not, maybe it is too late. Reactivated nerves need to be retrained by using them however. A physical therapist can help with retraining exercises.

          I do think time is of the essence on this subject. I am ten months out. Five before the Cipro was removed. Seven before I started rebuilding….and my nerves did recover from low magnesium. It is a question if they are actually dead. The neurologist when pressed had no test for this. If they don’t conduct electricity at all, then fear the worst. However they all have a conductivity test. The conductivity test they gave me I could feel the electric jolt so there was some conductivity. Exquisite torture that but it is a way to find out if your nerves are gone or just out of service. Neurologists don’t think this way — as there Is no drug to cure it so they don’t know and don’t have the background to develop their own treatment.

          I have been referred to endochronologist supposedly with new treatments to restore nerve function. The appointment is May 30th. I’ll post the results.

          My attitude is I am going to find a way to lift my right toes to get rid of the limp. That damn foot is going to work correctly again whether it wants to or not.

          We are progressing so quickly now I wouldn’t be surprised if chemicals to rebuild nerves are developed some day. We grew them when we built our bodies for the first time. It is just chemistry.

        • L April 7, 2018 at 12:55 pm

          I was doing all those things when I was first floxed. As I said some nerve damage improved, some did not. All my toes are still numb, in spite of massive amounts of coconut oil, omega 3s, and all the rest very early on. I am three years out now.

    • Andrea April 7, 2018 at 5:22 pm Reply

      Oh Kate I’m so sorry. I was floxed on December 2016. My symptoms never got to the point you’re experiencing, but they were pretty scary anyway. I took a total of 6 Prulifloxacin pills. The first symptom was a tingling sensation in left achilles tendon already at the 5th day of treatment. Then it extended on the ankle and lower leg. It went this way for about 4-5 months, then araound May/June the typical “floxie symptoms” blown up. Extreme fatigue, dizziness, low blood pressure, hypoglycemia symptoms, extreme pain inside my shin bones. Achy joints. Of course I was desperate and depressed. I’ve tried many supplements. But, in my case, 90% of them were just a waste of money. I’ve taken magnesium, in many forms. But it never did a thing to me. Actually, sometimes it made me feel worse. Same thing with magnesium oils,baths extc. I’ve done glutathione IV’s, took many supplements, herbs, but nothing helped. The only things I’ve noticed had an impact on my symptoms are the following :
      Vitamin D3 with K2, 5000 IU a day. It seems to help for the pain in my bones, I absolutley avoid caffeine and any other stimulant, I know it sucks, but like many other floxies caffeine is very detrimental for us. I’ve noticed that whenever I drink coffee, I feel extrimely week and dizzy. Diet. Probably the most important thing. Try to avoid sugar at all costs. Sugar is bad for everyone, but even worse for people experiencing peripheral neuropathy. Avoid crap in general. Try eat lots of veggies and fruits. This is just my experience, but I’ve noticed that when a eat a 90% plant based diet, I feel a lot better. Many people suggest to avoid NSAIDs and steroids like the plague. They can make your symptoms flear up. Anyway, they can’t do nothing for your symptoms for sure, so avoid them if you can. Right now, I’m taking this relatevely new supplement, Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA), I suggest you to read about it. It’s only been a couple of weeks, so it’s probably too ealry to say if it’s working or not, but I’ll let you know. I can’t tell you much more right now, but feel free to anwser any other question, if you want to.
      I konw it sounds stupid, but stay strong.

  35. Barbara Arnold April 6, 2018 at 10:48 pm Reply

    L……Don…..and L Coleman, Sorry there is no reply button on your answers. Thanks for your tips and support. I may consider Mitoq again, but I took it in the early years, year2 in fact and did not notice any difference, however I don’t know what I would have been like without it. I’m just sick of spending so much money all the time, and then back it comes and I have to guess why. I had a bad fall last November and compressed my spine, but I seemed to be okay as far as the energy and burning were concerned at the time, so again with that trauma to my body and a recent long haul flight, who the heck knows. But if the mito can be refunded if it doesn’t work, I may reconsider.
    Don I will also do some research on your suggestion. Did it work for you ?

  36. Don Mowers April 7, 2018 at 6:30 pm Reply

    I just ran onto an article about the importance of sulfur in the body. (MSM) A quote from the article. Sulfur plays a critical role in detoxification, as it is part of one of the most important antioxidants that your body produces: Glutathione (glutathione is the master antioxidant and it detoxifies every cell in your body). Without sulfur, glutathione is rendered ineffective. That’s significant because glutathione is your body’s built-in detoxifier. Another quote. A few other minerals that you may not be getting enough of are magnesium and sulfate (which soaking in an Epsom salts bath may help alleviate). A shortage of these could lead to high blood pressure, heart problems, high blood pressure and symptoms like leg cramps, muscle twitches or spasms. Bottom line…………. A rather interesting article and some of it could relate to things that might help those who have been floxed.

  37. Harriet April 8, 2018 at 7:47 am Reply
  38. Andrea April 8, 2018 at 11:42 am Reply

    Hi Don. I’ve taken MSM for 3 months straight. It was a combination of MSM, manganese, glucosamine sulphate, condotrin sulphate, devil’s claw, aloe vera. Here in Italy is sold by the commercial name No Dol.It is supposed to be a joint pain support. It did nothing for me.

    • Don Mowers April 8, 2018 at 8:19 pm Reply

      I can’t argue with what you claim as results. I only have one question. How much of the MSM were you actually consuming in a day? It appears that the general rule for MSM is about 5 grams (5,000 mg) per day. Many of the “combo supplements” contain several things but not in a quantity to be effective. When this happens a person is very discouraged with the supplement’s results and claims it doesn’t work. Just my comment on your results.
      Don

      • Andrea April 9, 2018 at 6:07 am Reply

        Yes Don. I agree with you. Anyway the daily dosage was only 200 mg. It would be interesting to try again the gluthatione IV’s with MSM in the right dosage.

    • jat92517 April 9, 2018 at 6:21 am Reply

      Hello Andrea,

      It could be you are missing some other ingredients to grow cartaleldge.
      Vitamin D combines wth MSM when exposed to sunlight.
      The combination is needed
      Collagen
      Magnesium not from pills.

      But the vitamin D must be above 30 to have satisfied bone demand (for flexibility) and then it is available for cartaledge and tendon growrth. If it is below 30 you need K2 for bone flexability and magnesium and …..

      John Taylor

      • Andrea April 9, 2018 at 6:36 am Reply

        Hi John. last time I’ve checked my vitamin d levels it was 48, and I always take it in combination with k2.

        • jat92517 April 9, 2018 at 8:13 am

          Andrea,

          Seems like you are doing everything right for arthritis. Which joints are a problem? I am out of ideas.

        • Andrea April 9, 2018 at 12:17 pm

          John,
          the joints/muscles/area that bother me the most are my ankles. But sometimes also my shoulders,wrists,elbows. I don’t know. I’ve read all of your posts, you’re always stressing about the magnesium, and you’re probably right, it worked for you, but I’ve gotta tell you, and I don’t mean any disrispect, believe me, I think your point of view it’s a little oversimplified. If it was only about magnesium foot soak,don’t you think that many of us would have been at least 50% healed by now? Like I mentioned before, magnesium never did a thing to me. Actually sometimes it made me feel worse. The only thing that seems to work for me is vitamin D3 and K2 combo. Even without magnesium.

        • jat92517 April 10, 2018 at 8:33 am

          Andrea,

          You are right Nutritional,recovery is way more com-lex than magnesium. There are 5 to 10 pillars plus a series of other nutrients to cu re specific things. At 48 on the Vitamin D you are in the range where you can make the combined D-MSM product. This will combine with glucoseamine -lus about 6 other things to grow cartaledge. So in your case whatever can happens will happen.

          I have has arthritis for over 40 years and used a number of temporary cures until I learned how to grow caraledge. Perhaps one of this will give you relief. Here is a list of what helped me.

          Moving those joints and using isometric strengthening will allow the muscles to carry some more force on the joint. A physical therapist can recommend the best after examining you, but are some classics. Ankles – standing on a wobble board – a piece of plywood with a round disk attached in the middle. You roll the edge contacting the floor around and your ankles have carry the load in different positions. Hiking on uneven ground is more fun.

          Shoulder roles, head rolls. You must know all this.

          A grease job 1. You over dose on cashew nuts for the oil. First you have starve your body of the ingredients to make fat. Fat is made from protein, oil, and carbs (except for glucose). Well can run for a few days without protein but not glucose. So don’t eat any protein for three days and then eat a whole pound of cashews. The oil sick’s around for a few days and your joints get lubed.

          Grease job 2. If you can acquire some DMSO rub this on the problem joints. It absorbs quickly through the skin and you will taste in your mouth. Instant relief. Your will store it your fat. Years later when you burn that fat the taste will come back. Where do you find DMSO. It is a Chemical used in labs – industrial lab suppliers. It is not a controlled substance nor is it FDA approved (to cheap a cure for anyone to make money so the testing has not been done.)

          I could control the arthritis in knees by doing knee-ups but the other joints responded better to the two grease jobs. The DMSO broke the grip arthritis had on me and then cashews were my choice for maintenance. Now I take a glucosamine now and then. I’ll do knee-ups for 3 weeks at a crack when I feel the knee is weak but not for arthritis.

          Hope this helps. Why I needed to know which joints bothered you, I can’t say but it did get me over a mental block.

          Hope this helps.

          The glutathion sounds very interesting especially as it covers such a broad range of conditions. It must be a good glucose transporter (diabetes and chronic fatigue need this in particular) as cells need glucose for energy and to repair and to rebuild themselves. The floxacins reduce glucose transport so this sounds like a major boost to recovery.

          What amazes me is how this blog helps healing. We try things part time without clinical studies and are making progress at findings cures. Even those who could be considered professional in this area are working without funding. All this due to power of sharing information on the web.

          Well 40 years back my father got Parkinson’s and was told to plan on living five years. We read articles found on the web at its infancy and quizzed his doctor about chemistry possibilities. His doctor modified his treatment. Dad lived another 17 years. He became a leader in the Parkinson’s support group and the doctor became the expert in the State of Vermont. Wonderful, but this blog is doing ten times that. The net will make big Pharma obsolete…and they deserve the worst fate for not being responsible corporate citizens.

          Cheers,

          John Taylor

        • jat92517 April 10, 2018 at 8:44 am

          Andrea,

          Opps! I see I am mathematically and proof reading challenged today. Dad got Parkenson’s About age 58 and lived to be 82. So that is 24 years or 19 more than the initial prognosis…and we took some pleasure in stumping the doctor initially.

          I can’t wait to dance on Bayer’s grave.

          Ciao,
          John Taylor

        • Andrea April 10, 2018 at 10:57 am

          Thanks John,
          I really appreciate that you take time to answer my questions. Yeah, you’re right, if it wasn’t for the great opportunity Internet ,and of course this website :-), gives us, many of us, me included, would be completily lost. Little by litle we’re trying to figure out a way to recover. Sharing information, in cases like this, is the most important thing. Expecially when you’re completely neglected by the medical community. That’s probably the most frustrating part.
          What you wrote about your father, really gave a “taste” of hope. Never give up, I should say!

  39. Andrea April 9, 2018 at 6:20 am Reply

    Here’s an interesting link about Glutathione

    • L April 9, 2018 at 9:08 am Reply

      Interesting…I wonder how that compares (the oral) to liposomal glut…..

  40. Andrea April 9, 2018 at 6:33 am Reply

    So to recap, according to what you’ve wrote in the previous link and according to the link of the study I’ve posted, it would be interesting to combine 5 gr of MSM + 200 mg of S- acetyl glutathione a day…let me know what’s your opinion.

    • Don Mowers April 10, 2018 at 6:44 am Reply

      Andrea ……I don’t have an opinion but here is some information on why I am no fan of the “combo soups” that many supplement companies put together. As I said before most of the time the “soup” combos do not have enough of each supplement to be truly effective and people get discouraged because they don’t get results. I can’t comment on the “synergistic” effect of many lower dose supplements mixed together.

      Ingredients by daily dose contained in No Dol and daily amounts found on the Internet. This does not take into consideration synergistic affects from a combination (soup) of supplements together
      • Glucosamine sulfate 500 mg … 1500 mg
      • Chondroitin sulfate 200 mg … 800 to 1,200 mg
      • MSM (Methyl Sulfonyl Methane) 200 mg … 5,000 mg
      • Devil’s Claw 200 mg … 2,000 to 2,600 mg
      • Aloe Vera 30 mg ???
      • Manganese gluconate 10 mg …1.8 mg women and 2.3 mg for men up to 10 mg

      I spend a lot more money but I go “a la cart”. I check the ingredient list and then buy the individual supplements. MANY times the ingredients in one “soup combo” overlap into the other combo making the ingredient more than needed. Just my way of approaching the issue of trying to get the most out of supplements.

      • Andrea April 10, 2018 at 11:14 am Reply

        Hi Don. I like your approach :-). Probably that “soup” I took a few months ago, did nothing because it was too weak. Anyway, after reading your post about MSM, soemthing that I was aware of, but didn’t know the whole story, expecially the part about its link to glutathione, I decided to give it another try. So in a few days my new stack would be : Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) 1200 mg a day, Magnesium glycinate 1 pill a day from Pure Encapsulation, vitamin D3+K2 5000 IU/200 mcg (already taking them) S-Acetyl Glutathione 200 mg a day + MSM 5000 mg a day. I know it’s a lot of stuff, but I want to try it. et me know what you think.

        • Don Mowers April 10, 2018 at 12:10 pm

          I never want to be considered as one giving advice. I am just a floxie looking for some answers like others on this site. I am doing a lot of reading to get as much info as I can and then try to put it together. I will say one thing though. Going a la cart on the different things sure makes a counter full of bottles. As I said before. This bandwagon of making fancy sounding multi-supplements in one pill seems to be the new game. I suspect their idea is to sell just one order and when it doesn’t work. Oh well.
          Be careful that you don’t over do it with supplements that may not be synergistic.
          Let us all know how it works out for you.
          One note. I like to have my liver checked out occasionally for bad liver enzymes. Supplements can pack a negative punch just like prescription drugs.

        • Andrea April 10, 2018 at 1:08 pm

          Don’t worry Don. I get it.
          By the way, your’e right, getting your liver checked it’s not a bad idea. Anyway, if you think about it, it seems that most of the people in western society, lack of vitamin D and magnesium, so let’s say these 2 have a pass. As for the other 3 (PEA, Glutathione and MSM), well, we’re ill people, or at least, I speak for myself. I’m ill. So, this is probably not what I wanted to do and I know it carries risks, but ehy, better than taking those prescription pills some great doctor wanted me to take. What do I have to lose anyway? Just my opinion, of course. Anyway I’ll let you know of any change, good or bad. Take care.
          Andrea.

  41. Harriet April 9, 2018 at 7:25 pm Reply

    Vitamin D3 , Omega 3, B12, Folate, BComplex,.Careful if taking warfarin as K2 is strongly contraindicated due to dangerous interactions..

    • Barbara Arnold April 9, 2018 at 9:39 pm Reply

      Well DAMN……….understatement. There are not enough expletives in the English language to describe how I feel about these evil morons.

      • L April 9, 2018 at 10:24 pm Reply

        Oh Barbara, I let out so many f-bombs when I read this. Two of the most diabolical, toxic, despicable corporations, if not THE most. I am so disgusted.

    • H.Noordhuizen April 10, 2018 at 4:22 am Reply

      Black day in human history! And read how they made this happen:Bayer sells part of his seed-company to…..Basf. Both of them were part of IG-Farben,the conglomerate which brought Hitler and his nazi’s to power and financed WW2. The right hand selling to the left hand:

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-09/asia-stocks-face-mixed-start-after-u-s-rally-ebbs-markets-wrap

    • H.Noordhuizen April 10, 2018 at 4:34 am Reply

      Here you’ll find info about how these companies (Bayer,Basf etc.) build the nazi emperium to conquer the world and make it into a (their) patent-driven corporative-fascistic dictature. Their nazi’s lost the war and IG-Farben had to break up but the staff of Bayer and Basf were hardly punished for their crimes and soon after started creating the European Union.It can hardly be a surprise that they managed to manipulating the politisions involved into this super-merge:

      http://www.profit-over-life.org/

      • L April 10, 2018 at 9:10 am Reply

        Yes, I was aware of bayer’s past in Nazi Germany…and some of the scientists that SHOULD have been charged with war crimes, were instead brought to the US under operation paperclip.

      • harriet April 13, 2018 at 2:58 pm Reply

        Dr Aseem Malhotra at European Parliament.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4uVNywg848 “Blowing the cover on the dark world of lobbying and how Big Food and Big Pharma are influencing dietary and medical guidelines putting millions of lives at risk” It’s long but interesting. Boy can he…
        See Post

        • L April 13, 2018 at 5:17 pm

          haven’t watched it yet but love the title….brave people coming forward

    • H.Noordhuizen April 10, 2018 at 4:38 am Reply

      And here the story of how the European Union “came to life”:

      http://www.eu-facts.org/en/background/dark_roots_europe_lecture.html

      • Barbara Arnold April 10, 2018 at 5:26 am Reply

        Just plain freakin EVIL. Thank God the UK is getting out of federal Europe. Unfortunately so many people know nothing about this.

  42. Don Mowers April 10, 2018 at 5:26 am Reply

    Re Bayer,Basf etc. Now more than ever it is patient beware. Do your home work before accepting any medication made in a “big pharma” lab. It is appearing that the entire medical profession is being taken over by “profiteers”. Their presence has become so prolific that doctors must either go along to get along or be “neutralized”. Have you noticed how many alternative medicine doctors have been “neutralized” lately. And it seems that all the “neutralizations” have been under “mysterious circumstances”.
    Thank goodness for the Internet and being able to Google for information. Without it I would have never come to realize that being “floxed” was behind my many problems. It certainly didn’t come from information I received from any doctors!!!!!!! Is prohibiting medical information from being posted on the Internet next?

    • harriet April 10, 2018 at 12:46 pm Reply

      Live stream: Big Food and Big Pharma killing for profit – Diet Doctor
      Top names in European medicine (Dr. Malhotra among others) join forces at the European Parliament against Big Pharma, Big Food and the health advice that is…
      dietdoctor.com

  43. Andrea April 10, 2018 at 1:33 pm Reply

    Sorry guys. I’ve read here many times, that checking your magnesium levels with the traditional blood exam is pretty useless. What other exams can we do, to have a better idea of our magnesium levels? Thanks.

    • H.Noordhuizen April 10, 2018 at 1:57 pm Reply

      Checking your magnesium serum level is pretty useless;you better find a lab that can test your intercellulair magnesium level.

      • jat92517 April 10, 2018 at 2:09 pm Reply

        I go by how limber I am when I stand from sitting a while. The goal is to spring out the chair. Progress is slow even with a daily soakss I still have high demand

        • jérôme April 10, 2018 at 10:32 pm

          John,I took high doses of magnesium for 1,5 year now and I still can’t understand why I don’t feel well with it…either it does nothing,either my anxiety and pains get worse! I stopped Epsom Baths because they gave me a relapse each time….and I know a lot of floxies who are in the same case…and I can tell you that I put a lot of hope in magnesium at the beginning! good it was useful for you…

      • harriet May 2, 2018 at 5:26 am Reply

        henk Is there a blood test for checking intracellular levels of magnesium? Thanks.x

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2018 at 3:39 am

          Yes,Harriet,there is. Read about what Carolyn Dean,an expert on magnesium,wrote about it:

          https://drcarolyndean.com/2014/05/magnesium-rbc-blood-test/

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2018 at 3:43 am

          Don Mowers gave a good advice about where to get that test, for people living in the US.Here,in Europe,there’s a good lab doing that same test,in Germany.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2018 at 3:45 am

          Magnesiumtest in the US (thank you,Don):

          http://www.requestatest.com

          You don’t need a doctor to request the test.

    • Don Mowers April 10, 2018 at 2:24 pm Reply

      Dr. Carolyn Dean says that the RBC magnesium blood test is not a bad way to go. Are you in the US? Here you can go online to Request A test http://www.requestatest.com and without a doctor’s order you can sign up to be sent to a local lab to get your blood drawn and sent in for the test. Depending on the lab the cost is either $49 or $59 all inclusive. Blood draw and all.
      This tests the level of the magnesium in the red blood cells. The blood serum test only checks the free magnesium in the blood. Only 1% of the magnesium in the body is in the blood. It’s not a very accurate test. It can vary widely at any given time, kind of like blood pressure and blood sugar, but it is cheap so the insurance companies like it.

      • jérôme April 10, 2018 at 10:43 pm Reply

        I took Dean’s Remag for 8 months and it did nothing even at high doses! yet she sells it as being the top of mag,going to your cells directly; even coupled with Remythe a mineral solution,it did nothing!

        • L April 10, 2018 at 10:55 pm

          It can get pricey, but have you tried Myer’s IVs? They are high in mag, and it goes directly into the bloodstream so you don’t have to worry about it being degraded gong through the digestive tract.

        • H.Noordhuizen April 11, 2018 at 1:57 am

          First of all: magnesium may be one of the most advised minerals for floxies but,if you’re deficient in Calcium,vit. K2 and/or vit D,using expensive mag.sups is a waist of money to begin with. And,because Cipro and other,related antibiotics damage the mitochondria it’s very hard,if not (almost) impossible to get the magnesium where it has to be to do it’s work: in the cells.

          One of the most effective mag.sups is magnesium bisglycinate. I buy it here because it”s very friendly priced (and they got a dutch website as well ;-))

          https://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/magnesium-bisglycinate-tablets.html

          What’s important too is to take (most) supplements directly after a healthy meal with as much vegetables as you can eat; this helps the uptake of vitamines and minerals a lot!

          Most sups are hadr to swallow for the body anyway because they are (most of them) not very bio-availible. That’s why slow juicing is,in my opinion, the best way to give your body what it needs. Eating 1 kilo of vegetables each day is,for most people,impossible but drinking 7 dl of vegetable juice isn’t. That’s the amount of juice in 1 kilo;the better juicers will give you 5-6 dl from a kilo (depending on the kind of vegetable’s).Best is,to mix several kinds of vegetables,and focus on the ones rich in magnesium.I don’t have experiences with other juicers but,after a lot of research,I bought a Green Star Elite and I’m very glad I did!

          For those with a juicer: taking your subs with a glass of fresh juice might be the way for an optimal absorption!

          Vitamine D is very,very important! Not only for magnesium-absorption (and the magn.is important for binding calcium where you need it),but it is extremely important for your immune system as well. I think that vit. D pills or drops will not do;best way to get your vit. D is by sunlight. Second best way might be a special lamp made by Philips,called a UV-B narrowband PL-L and it’s used for Psoriasis and Vertiligo. And for vit. D deficiency,of course.

          By the way; the advised amount of vit. D is proven to be wrong. The scientist who did the calculation where worldwide advices still depend upon made a mistake during his calculations and only recently another scientist discorvered his mistake:the real daily need for vit. D is at least 10 times higher than what is still advised. Can’t find back that article right now but I think it’s on the website of Dr. Mercola.

          By the way:my first name is Henk. Don’t know how to change it for this website;maybe Lisa,or someone else can help me out. Would also want to know why,most of the time,there’s no reply button on most of my comments. Do I do something wrong? I want my reply-button ! ;-))

          Have a nice day!

        • Andrea April 11, 2018 at 7:03 am

          Henk. Thanks for the infos. I’ve too noticed how crucial is to get as much veggies and fruits as possible. I really notice a difference when I’m eating lots of crap, out of my depressed state, like now, or when I eat a healthy diet. Not a big fan of juices myself, I prefer to eat the whole stuff, even if that means getting a little less vitamins and minerals. Are you a vegan? I noticed that, when I eat a 85-90% plant based diet, my symptoms really improve. I also noticed that, among others thing, dairy is very pro inflammatory. Do you consume dairy and or milk?
          P.S I’m going to check out that lamp. Right now I’m still taking my vitamin d3/k2 combo…
          P.P.S Are you European? If so, check out the link I’ve posted below, it seems that something is moving in the right direction, let me know what do you think about it.

        • H.Noordhuizen April 12, 2018 at 3:47 am

          Hi Andrea,no,I’m not a vegan,and yes,I’m a European (was born,and still living in the Netherlands,or; Holland,as it is sometimes called).I didn’t mean to say you got to eat ALL your vegetables juiced; I use the juice as a supplement to the vegetables in my food. And I love vegetables and fruit anyway. Fruit isn’t healthy when you eat too much of it,because of the high sugar-content.And,as I already told:take your supplements togehther with your food (and/or juice) for optimal uptake.

          I do eat meat,one,sometimes two times a week. Most of my proteines come from fish,eggs and cheese (I LOVE cheese;although I noticed that my lungs react to too much cheese,or other dairy products.But I’m hooked on cheese;dutch,french,italian…:-))

          Thanks for the link;I already read about it.But I have little hope that this will change much; it will probably go like here,in the Netherlands. We just held a referendum about a new law that will drasticaly cut our rights on privacy and the people gave our government a big “NO”. But,like another referendum,a little while ago,our government said: “we heard the voice of our peole and will seriously think,and talk about this advice”. But nothing happened;our voice was ignored.

          By the way; where do you live? And,when in Europe,did you fill in the form on that website? I did with one on international aggreements (and food-safety),al little while ago,and it seemed to me that these forms are mad to discourage people to ever try fill in such a form ever,again. Not made to encourage you to make use of your democratic rights.

          The Philips lamp is great but,like with all sources of UV-light, be carefull. One time I overdid just 1-2 minutes and had a serious sunburn.

  44. Andrea April 11, 2018 at 6:50 am Reply
    • L April 11, 2018 at 9:34 am Reply

      wow, that is interesting. did you post this on other floxie sites?

      • Andrea April 11, 2018 at 9:57 am Reply

        L, I post only on this website. Anyway I just finished to compile my application. They’ll let me know if they allow me to speak there, in about two weeks. Let’s hope…

        • L April 11, 2018 at 10:10 am

          oh good. I will post on a couple other sites

      • Madge hirsch April 11, 2018 at 12:46 pm Reply

        I am in touch regularly with the lady who coordinates a uk group of floxies and who has done an enormous amount of work preparing for this public hearing. She asked me if I wished to apply to speak but at the moment I am recovering from major bowel surgery and I doubt I will be fit to travel from France to London even in 6/7 weeks- staying close to a toilet is imperative at the moment!! However she said I could submit something in writing . The surgery has not helped my floxing symptoms at all which is a drag as before it I was beginning to see a modest improvement. To cap matters I went into afib a couple of days afterwards and am on very high doses of anticoagulants . The docs say it’s Warfarin for life now. We’ll see.

        • L April 11, 2018 at 1:20 pm

          oh, I’m so sorry. You know when they had the hearings here I was too ill to go, see Lisa read mine for me.

          After Cipro I had blood tests that revealed I have that mutation to be more prone to clots. I have an integrative MD who know how anti-pharmaceutical I am now, so when he mentioned meds, all I had to do was lift my eyebrow and he said ‘ok, we won’t do that.” He just made sure I was taking two fish oil caps a day. But something else you may want to look into is serrapeptase. It is anti-inflammatory and it gobbles up stuff that your body doesn’t need. I am just grabbing this link because it discusses it, but there is a wealth of info out there. http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2003/9/report_aas/page-01

        • Andrea April 11, 2018 at 2:34 pm

          Hi Magde, I’m so sorry for your current situation. Like I wrote before, I applied to speak at the earing, let’s see what happens. I would ask you one thing, if you don’t mind sharing. Do you think Cipro caused you your bowel problems? Are you sure about it? I’m asking you this because, I already had some bladder problems, but I’m almost sure they got way worse after I was floxed. What was your condition before being floxed?

        • Andrea April 11, 2018 at 2:40 pm

          Excuse me L, but when exactly they had the hearings in the us? I mean, I’m very disappointed. They already had other hearings, and nothing changed in the medical community? they still freely prescribe these types of drugs?

        • L April 11, 2018 at 3:51 pm

          I am not positive, Lisa would know…but I want to say around May of 2016. And yes I am FURIOUS. For one thing, they can slap all the warnings on they want—doctors don’t get them. For another thing, Bayer and (and maybe J & J) had their henchmen there testifying against more warnings. They are just reprehensible.

          From that hearing came the new warnings not to use for simple infections, like uncomplicated UTIs, sinus infection, etc. And just look at how many people have been floxed since then for those very things! That’s why I urge anyone in this category to file a suit. If you took a generic you can’t (at least not at this point) sue the manufacturer. But sue the doctor and maybe the pharmacy depending on your own state laws. MONEY is the only thing they listen to.

        • harriet April 13, 2018 at 4:41 pm

          hi Madge Sorry to hear that you have just had major bowel surgery.

          If u google bisoprolol buddies u will see a lot of horror stories re beta blockers, do be careful. I hope you start to improve soon.

          Take care.

    • L April 11, 2018 at 3:55 pm Reply

      And Andrea (no site to post on your prior comment but you asked about bladder problems post cipro…YES! I did, and I think lisa did too. I had so much pain and pressure for months. Acupuncture and chinese herbs helped some, but it was awful. And at one point I felt like I had crushed glass in side me. Just incredibly painful.

    • Madge hirsch April 12, 2018 at 10:33 am Reply

      No – my diverticulitis led to my first floxing since I moved to France. I was given a Cipro/ Flagyl iv combo for my first attack. Since I have had several small attacks that I was able to manage myself without antibiotics then another major attack in Jan treated with Augmentin. My gastroenterologist persuaded me to have the diseased part of my colon removed as each subsequent attack raises the risk of a perforation and peritonitis. It is a major op but I am recovering quite well. The problem with the antibiotics plus prep for colonoscopy is repeatedly wiping out the microbiome which does not help if you are a floxie.

      • harriet April 16, 2018 at 4:44 pm Reply

        Hi Madge I am glad that things went well. It is relief now that it is over. I know what you mean about bowel prep because I had one over a year ago. I had to go into hospital for the prep than had a colonsocopy and gastroscopy the following morning. I did not get much sleep if any the night before thanks to frequent usage of the toilet facilities x 14.

        I saw you are on a beta locker and thought this may be of interest to you, it is a link to codeine and its interaction with beta blockers. Just in case.
        sorry for not being able to reply earlier. I logged on, saw you message did a few scheduled things and then almost passed out! It gave me such a fright and the heart was just mad. Never mind, I’m still here thank God!

        Yes, here is the link I mentioned last night for you to copy and paste:

        https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-22114/butalbital-compound-codeine-oral/details/list-interaction-details/dmid-14/dmtitle-barbiturates-selected-beta-blockers/intrtype-drug

        Take care. x

  45. Andrea April 11, 2018 at 7:19 am Reply

    To all the fellow Euro Floxies http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/
    Sorry for spamming LOL

  46. Andrea April 11, 2018 at 7:30 am Reply

    Actually I don’t konw if it only for European citizens, I’m reading that you can join live from their website http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/news/2018/04/news_detail_002936.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c1

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