Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




21,339 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. L November 9, 2018 at 3:45 pm Reply

    Hey everyone. Since none of us really knows the extent of damage of these toxins, I just wanted to throw a question out there (and LISA, perhaps you have some insight.) Sadly, my area is again being devastated by wildfires, and we just had a mass shooting at a nightclub near here…which brings me to my question. Has anyone donated blood post-floxing? Any thoughts on that?

  2. Frank B November 11, 2018 at 10:41 am Reply

    Hey all! Long time no post.Haven’t forgotten about you guys.I don’t want to jinx myself but I think I can say that I’ve finally normalized.I am far from symptom free but life is much better now.
    At the moment I’ve been dealing with low Testosterone,Thyroid and strangely low Iron?
    I’m male and eat meat so who knows? If any of you are new I signed up here a few years back in a suicidal state,and I found some great support,and I will always be greatful to Lisa and everyone who reached out.It has been nearly six years since my second Floxing or rather relapse brought on by a Sulfa drug,and I just have to say,”DON’T GIVE UP!”
    Time is the best supplement for this disease so hang in there.

    • L November 11, 2018 at 11:56 am Reply

      Good news, Frank! Glad to hear you are doing (mostly) well. Interestingly, a number have posted re thyroid issues. I already had low thyroid, so can’t blame the Cipro for that. (Now for the OTHER 30+ things…..!!)

      Iron deficiency could help explain (in addition of course to mitochondrial damage) another reason for the fatigue that floxies feel. I believe there is a genetic connection there too, which perhaps floxing sets off

  3. A.Coleman November 11, 2018 at 8:14 pm Reply

    Hey gang. Wanting to know how many of you developed high blood pressure as a result of floxing? I am three years out. Until about six months ago my BP was around 125 over 85 so not perfect but pretty good. And this was two plus years after floxing. Fast forward to today. In the last six months my BP has sky rocketed to 150 over 100. What is even crazier is that a month ago it was 148 over 88. Now I am faced with going on BP meds. Pulse is only 60.

    My question is this FQ Related or something else? I am C677T MTHFR heterozygote but my homocysteine was good last time It was checked. BTW I am about two months into the second worse relapse I have had.

    Are there any BP Meds I should avoid or consider? I have an appointment with my integrative medicine doc, who believes I was floxed, in a month but I think maybe I should see a regular doctor before then and let my integrative doc make adjustments.

    Feedback very much appreciated.

    • L November 11, 2018 at 9:53 pm Reply

      That was one of the few issues I did NOT have, but wanted to mention this. A friend, who was on meds for high blood pressure, went to my integrative MD., who told him to take ubiquinol twice a day (coq10, but people over 40 have a hard time changing it into the usable form.) He is now off high blood pressure meds.

      • A.Coleman November 12, 2018 at 6:29 am Reply

        L Thanks for the thoughts I do think that my BP problems are a combination of my MTHFR issues and floxing. Before this last relapse I was nearing being well. Think my body may have started trying to operate normally but due to MTHFR and FQ remanents triggered this relapse. I am on Coq 10 once a day and take liposomal glutathione daily. At 51 I know metabolism of some of these nutrients is tough especially as a MTHFR floxie.

        • L November 12, 2018 at 11:43 am

          If you’re 51, you want to switch to ubiquinol. “If you’re over 40, I would strongly recommend taking ubiquinol instead of CoQ10 as it’s far more effectively absorbed by your body. In every study conducted so far, ubiquinol has been shown to be far more bioavailable than the non-reduced form (CoQ10).” https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/11/03/coq10-vs-ubiquinol.aspx

    • Dee November 11, 2018 at 10:19 pm Reply

      A Coleman, you might write “Ruth” who had some issues with her BP going up 3-4 years after floxing. I know that she did not go on BP meds and rode it out. Don’t remember how long for but post on her story and she wil usually get back to you!

      • A.Coleman November 12, 2018 at 6:30 am Reply

        Thanks Dee I seem to remember that post. I will reach out to Ruth.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 12, 2018 at 4:59 am Reply

      Magnesium is one of the main causes of high BP,and the list of magnesium “eating” Farmaffia meds is growing (Amoxicilline is one,too).Vitamine D is important for good heart helth,and healthy fats as well.Here a Mercola article about fats (and about the bad side of sugar and carbs):


      • Dee November 12, 2018 at 8:06 am Reply

        A Coleman. You mentioned you were in a relapse. How long ago were you floxed?

        • Dee November 12, 2018 at 8:08 am

          No need to answer. Sorry just saw when you were floxed on your post. Do you know what caused your relapse?

        • A.Coleman November 12, 2018 at 10:22 am

          Dee – don’t know for sure what caused relapse. I was thinking about writing a healed story as my lingering digestive issues improved and my nerve issues while still present were minor. And crazily enough even as the relapse started my digestion continues to improve and is nearly normal now.

          I think this might have been the trigger – healing and the body thinking it was time to start operating like normal then not having the necessary nutrients and ability to metabolize them. I had slacked a bit on my Mg supplementation and even took a week off supplementing. Then about three weeks ago I started using the ReMag pico Mg solution of Dr. Deans and rededicated myself to Epsom salt baths on a regular basis.

          So, maybe this is the cause and maybe it is just the crazy random nature of being a floxie.

  4. Dee November 12, 2018 at 2:05 pm Reply

    A Coleman, sorry don’t know your first name? Sorry you had this blood pressure relapse. Is it possible it isn’t related to being floxed since everything else is actually still improving or minor?? Is your blood pressure the only symptom acting up?? May I ask how much FQ you were floxed with and how long did it take until you felt mostly recovered before this blood pressure spike?? I hope this “relapse” is short lived and that you can write your recovery store real soon!! The fact that you are still experiencing improvement with your digestion and nerves is promising and hopeful for you!! I am 17 months out and made a lot of improvement but still experiencing digestion issues which is mostly morning urgency and diarrhea then I do pretty well until the next morning!! Argh!! I also am still battling with some insomnia although much better and the ongoing buzzing tinnitus which bothers me the most going to sleep and waking up. Anyway I sure keep praying got for continued improvement and hopefully full recovery “I hope”!!! I guess a lot of floxies take at least a couple of years to really feel better which is why I asked how long you took. Also what you did for your digestive issues??

    • A.Coleman November 13, 2018 at 8:29 am Reply


      Sorry to hear about your continued digestive issues. My two main floxie issues were nerve damage and digestive issues (which I think were mostly nerve damage too). Initially after floxing symptoms appeared – about one month post floxing – I had severe peripheral neuropathy, uncontrolled sweating, intense stomach pain and gastroparesis. I dropped 25 pounds in the first month. I went on to battle for nearly a year with the gastroparesis and just as it was getting better started getting bad stomach nausea and reflux. I only had heart burn when I burped – but I burped 100 times a day or more. It took 18 months to get over that and today as I write my digestion seems 98% healed. I still burp a bit too much and experience mild nausea one or two days a month but in the last 3 to 4 months I have healed a lot after healing very slowly the previous 12.

      To clarify the relapse is not strictly the high blood pressure – first time this has ever affected me and I just hope it is tied to the relapse. The relapse was a return of nerve issues. An odd tingle and cold sensation in my shins and lower thighs started about two months ago. This is something I experienced for the first 9 months of being floxed, but hadn’t experienced for a bit over two years. Then the peripheral neuropathy in my feet that had been either non-existant or very minor for over a year acted up. Finally the crippling insomnia returned about a month ago.

      I had a B vitamin test about a month after the leg tingling started and had to stop Bs for a few days prior to the test. Results showed me to be high in B6, B12 and folate and my doc thought that the leg tingle could be B6 toxicity. My B12 level, while high was not too concerning to my integrative physician, but she wanted to see my folate come down too. So I stopped all B vitamins for 10 days and only resumed them initially at 1/4 dose of previous for the next three weeks. I have ramped them back up to 3/4 of the old dose and my feet seem to be responding – so maybe I can try a half dose in a few more weeks.

      My shins are actually due to Mg deficiency I now believe and think that this may be part of my high blood pressure problems too. I had an RBC Mg test in March and the reading was near perfect. After that I began taking fewer Epsom salt baths (it was summer) and even stopped my Mg Glycinate for 10 days when I found out the replacement brand I bought was tainted with arsenic.

      What I now think is that as my digestion began to heal my body started trying to complete much delayed maintenance activities and started churning through Mg so fast that it eventually led to high blood pressure and the tingling / cold in my shins. It also led to the return of my insomnia.

      About two weeks ago I started using Dr. Dean’s ReMag pico Mg solution and started back religiously on Epsom Salt baths and using MgCl spray. I am not really sold on the ReMag and may go back to Mg Glycinate, but the Epsom salt baths and MgCl spray are starting to make the smallest improvements in my shins.

      I just pray that the high blood pressure is due to this problem too and once corrected it will go back to where it was before. I have another RBC Magnesium test scheduled in early December. In the mean time I made an appointment with my regular physician for this week to get treated for the high blood pressure. If that means meds then I will take them – though would still love to hear from a floxie who has high BP and what meds they tolerate. While I did message on Ruth’s story – I am not sure not treating is the best approach.

      Thanks to everyone – Henk let me know if you think I am on the right track with Mg in terms of action and my approach to treating. You are the guy in terms of Mg IMO. BTW – my Vitamin D is doing well at 87 ng/ul when I got results in September – actually reduced my supplementation a bit as a result.

  5. Dee November 13, 2018 at 9:38 am Reply

    A Coleman. Thank you for your response. I am glad you are starting to respond a little to the ReMag. That is a good sign and hopefully replenishing your mag will slowly return you to normal again. I know Ruth will read your comment and will get back to you about her BP experience. She doesn’t get a chance to write back until she had a break from her work schedule or weekend but she usually will get back to you. Hopefully she will have some insight for your situation! I take the liquid Angstrom Mag and have had luck with that. I don’t think I even absorb pills with having leaky gut although I take quite a few pill supplements and hope something is getting absorbed!! What did you do to heal your digestion?? Did you take anything to help it heal?? Did you take anything for your pherphial neuropathy. I still get numb toes and tingling in my lower legs which is worse at night time and waking up. When I move around during the day it isn’t as bad? How long before your neuropathy let up for you? How much FQ did you take initially to get floxed? I hope with continued mag that your symptoms will begin to let up for you.

    • A.Coleman November 14, 2018 at 8:18 am Reply

      Dee – wish I could tell you something worked to fix my digestion. But I can’t identify anything specific. I tried many different things but I think it was just time and never stopping believing it would get better. Even now I still expect some type of digestion related relapse down the road – hopefully minor

      I tried:

      colostrum – didn’t work
      whey – didn’t work
      made my own bone broth from organic meat and bones- maybe a very small positive impact
      Ate organic, whole foods – clearly didn’t hurt, but no clear benefit

      When my heartburn kicked in the one thing I did was avoid “traditional heartburn medication” since it further restricts your body’s ability to absorb nutrients. The other thing I started doing was taking Betaine HCl with lunch and dinner since I think in reality my stomach acid was probably too low. I took a maximum of two with each meal – while I could tolerate more the scientific studies I found showed that more than two lowered stomach PH to close to the “normal” range and additional ones had minimal impact. After a couple of months of taking two with lunch and dinner I went down to one and stayed there for nearly a year.

      In the precursor stages to my FQ symptoms coming on full blown I first had a nurse tell me to take Ibuprofen at a dose above the recommended levels for stomach pain I was having (the first signs of the FQ – so that was a really bad move for someone having a reaction to an FQ). Then to top it off I had a really arrogant nurse practioner tell me without any type of test that I had a small ulcer from the Ibuprofen. I questioned her but, still believing in western medicine at the time, followed her instructions and took a Proton Pump Inhibitor for a month. I think those horrible steps combined with the havoc the FQs were wreaking in my body is why my digestion was so messed up. Once the FQ symptoms erupted in full I stopped the PPI though by then the gastroparesis had set in. I still consider suing the nurse practitioner for malpractice

      As to neuropathy – that is a bit better story. For me it seems to be a B-vitamin issue combined with the FQ. I think part of my neuropathy is digestion related with my own gut flora not producing adequate vitamin B. The other part is that I am a C677T MTHFR heterozygote and while I never experienced problems pre-floxing; the mitochondrial damage the FQ did made that heterozygote state have a bigger impact. In fact one of the things that may have really helped my digestion was discovering my MTHFR status and modifying the forms of the B vitamins I was taking so that I got the right forms of folate especially, but also of Vitamin B6. In attempting to “get well” I may have overdone dosing a bit, so that is why I have backed off on my B vitamins a bit lately. That likely contributed in part to my recent relapse, but it was already started when I started tapering off.

      It took about a year for the neuropathy to get to a tolerable level and another year for it to get to a level where I only noticed it a few days a month. In the last week my feet have finally started to improve following this relapse, but my shins are still nearly as bad as they were six months post-floxing. You mention that your feet feel better after you get up and start moving around. I too notice that mine feel better – especially on days I run at the gym. They hurt a lot while I run, but an hour after I am done they are usually great. I must assume that it is a blood flow issue and exercise helps nutrients reach the nerves.

      Hope some of that helps.

  6. Darko Pet November 18, 2018 at 11:47 am Reply

    Hi guys, I am currently recovering from ciprofloxacin damage. Was flocked 6 weeks ago and mainly struggling with muscle twitching and fatigue, legs feel like jelly.

    Does anyone have an idea as to how long it takes for twitching to stop?

    Many thanks

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 18, 2018 at 1:17 pm Reply

      Darko,this cant be predicted beçause every person reacts different. Best you can do for now is taking a good magnesiumsupplement like magnesium citrate,or,even better,magnesium bisglycinate ( a chelated form of magnesium). I hope you’re lucky and have a quick recovery!

      • Darko Pet November 18, 2018 at 1:37 pm Reply

        Thank you Henk. It’s just really disturbing. I thought by now I would have recovered but the twitching just won’t go away

        • A.Coleman November 19, 2018 at 10:40 am

          Darko – just be prepared for it to take a long time for your body to recover. This is a poison in some individuals body’s and acts very much like a chemotherapy agent – except it is harder for your body to remove.

          Symptoms lessen over time for the large majority of us. However, a symptom that was gone for a long time (years) may return later. I am currently in a relapse dealing with a symptom that I first experienced and which went away over two years ago.

          Henk’s advice is sound for now. Get lots of Magnesium – consider not only ingesting it as a supplement (because not a log of it will be absorbed), but also use Epsom Salts in a bath or foot bath and get MgCl spray and spray it directly on the affected areas.

          Be careful with exercise for a bit until you see how your tendons respond.

  7. Darko Pet November 19, 2018 at 11:33 am Reply

    Thank you so much for responding. The twitching improved for a while and then in the last two days it has become continuous, mainly leg muscles. I am taking many supplements including magnesium but I just can’t see any improvement. How long did it take for you to see improvement?

    Thank you again

  8. Andrea November 20, 2018 at 2:55 pm Reply

    Hey guys,
    I haven’t posted anything for a long time. I’ve been doing quite good lately ( for floxie standars). I can eat pretty much what I want now. I havent’ dare to drink coffee or anything with caffeine of course, but besides some on and off low energy issues, and of course the burning pain especially in the lower legs area, when I walk “too much”, I can say I feel quite good. The huge problem is still the bladder. It’s an almost constant pressure in the pelvic area and I urinate many times during the day with a really weak urine flow. Since I’ve heard that many of us develop these symptoms, has anyone tried something that helps in this regard.

    To Henk : I’ve decided that for this Christmas I’m going to buy myself a sota pulser and try it for my bladder issues. I’ve read some interesting studies about magnetic therapy and pelvic pain syndrome. Who knows…maybe it’ll be a waste of money, but it is still better than surgey.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 20, 2018 at 3:32 pm Reply

      Hi Andrea,good to hear that you’re doing reasonably well.As for coffee: I drink a double espresso each day,after dinner (at noon),and haven’t had any troubles with it from as soon as my bloodsugar stablized,which it did after 2-3 weeks of micropulsing my blood and magn. pulsing my guts and especially my pancreas.

      You write that you have pain in the pelvic area,and a slow urine stream;sounds to me that maybe the problem isn’t your bladder but might be your prostate.I used a zinc supplement and the magn. pulser for that.

      I intend to buy me a Sota present,too ;-)) I bought my Sota devices from Mediverse and they only had an ozonater under their own company name;not the Sota Ozonater I wanted.But they convinced me it was the same quality,if not better,which proved to be a lie.I hope to,by the end of the year,have enough money to buy the one from Sota.

      By the way;have you tried relaxing the muscles in the pelvic area,tose in your underbelly in particular? This might help to ease the pain and lowers the urination frequenty because it lessens the pressure on your bladder.

      Sorry for any typo’s;last few days my double vision is worse;hope for it to get better in the next few days.It’s constant fluctuating from reasonably well to really bad,and back.Not much hope it will ever disappear.

      • Andrea November 20, 2018 at 6:37 pm Reply

        So sorry to read about your vision issues Henk. I don’t really know what to suggest you in this regard.
        Anyway, I don’t think the problem is my prostate, or at least not the biggest issue. I’ve tried many supplements and some drugs, that are supposed to help with BPH, but nothing helped. Remeber I’ve been diagnosed with a bladder neck sclerosis, but the symptoms never bothered me this much until I started to develop all the side effects from the FQ. I’m quite sure that some symptoms aren’t related to the FQ, I already had them, but others eg the pelvic pain, I think is related to the FQ. But stil, who knows…Anyway,
        do you know a website that sells the sota pulser here in Europe?
        Another thing, I know that most of the time the magnetic therapy is used moslty for the treatment of pain related to the joints ect., but do you think it could help for my bladder (internal organ) issue? Thanks

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2018 at 5:20 am

          Andrea,I looked at the website of zapper.nu (a dutch webshop) but at the moment their page with Sota equipment is off-line.I’ve sent them an email,asking if they still sell Sota devices,and I’m waiting for an answer.

          I’ve even looked for mediverse.de,where I bought my devices but their website is down.Buying my devices there was not a problem but a while later one of the wires was defect and I contacted them,but they refused to help and wrote me to contact Sota myself.I did,and Sota not only sent me a new wire,free of charche but also a new wire with other,rubber contacts to give them a try.Great service!

          Well,for now I can give you no Sota distribution point in the EU;I hope that zapper.nu still sells those.Two other possibilities:build one yourself (easy),or find a way to order one at Sota’s:


        • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 6:22 am

          Thanks Henk. You’re always very kind. Thnaks a lot.

        • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 6:41 am

          Oh, just another thing : you’ve mentioned zinc for your prostate issues. Did you noticed a relief in pain and a improvement in urine flow after the supplementation?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2018 at 7:01 am

          Hi,Andrea,I take zinc citrate every day.My daily dose contains 50 mg of zinc.As I mentioned before,when my prostate problem was at its worst I started with the Magn.Pulser,and,while the pain initially getting worse,urinating got a lot better.After a few weeks I decided to stop with the pulser,and both pain and urinating got even better,untill things were almost like they used to be before the problems started.Then I discovered about the importance of zinc for the prostate and started with 100 mg per day.After a while the last bit of problems were gone and I urinated like,when I was an 18 year old;even had to get used to it ;-))

          Now and then I stop the zinc supp. for a few month but,as soon as I note a relapse of the problem I start taking this 50mg supp. again.It also helps a bit with my skin problems,which were caused by a severe magnesium deficiency and zinc,thanks to Losec,and to 2 AB courses.I use the Pulser over that area as well,when I feel a bit of discomfort,or pain.

        • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 7:38 am

          Uhm…so the zinc defently helped you, but the magnetic pulser kinda helped but also, at least at the beginning was bothering you even more, that’s weird. Anyway, I’m going to try the zinc. I’ve alredy taken some zinc, the remag solution has a little bit in it, but I think less then 15 mg. I’m going to try the zinc citrate from pure encapsulation. It at 30 mg. But I doubt it’s going to do soemthing for me. Anyway has always, thanks

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2018 at 9:40 am

          Hi Andrea,

          I got an answer from the guy who runs the dutch webshop,and indeed;there is an mistake somewhere in the website.He gave me a direct link:


          I’m sorry;some of the pages can be set to english version but this page only seems to be in dutch.But the setup of it is quite simple so it might be simple enough for you to place your order.Payment is possible with Ideal or paypal.

          I’m really glad that he still sells the Sota stuff; he seems to be the only reseller in the EU.And I have good experience with him,two years ago.

          The Pulser helped a lot,indeed,but the first few weeks the pain seemed to get a little worse.Hard to say if this was real or just my imagination;the stress of having the “old man” problem might have been the real cause.But,as I wrote,urinating got better after those first few weeks,and within two month or so,things were almost normal (amounts,frequenty,strength).Supplementing with zinc,in the end,brought me back to “when I was 18 years old” ;-)) Had to get used to that as well;this time no cleaning in front of the pot but at the backside.That really amazed me.

          Of course I can’t garantee the same results for you;accept from everybody reacting in his/her own way your problem seems to be different to mine.Nevertheless: this pulser has helped me with so many different things over the years I own one (self made,and late,the Sota pulser);in spite of the high price it’s proven to be worth the money over and over again.And I still have one of my homemade magnetic pulsers near my bed,where I still use it sometimes while reading a book.

          Because of making a cheap and effective magnetic pulser yourself is so simple I,once again,advise you to try that first,before spending quite a bit of money for the Sota one.

    • L November 20, 2018 at 8:10 pm Reply

      What helped me with that was acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine. Something else you might look into is aloe vera. I suspect it is interstitial cystitis.

      • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 6:26 am Reply

        Hi L. Yeah, I remeber you’ve already mentioned interstitial cystitis a while ago as a possible cause, as a matter of fact I followed your suggestion and got tested for a lot of things related to bladder or UTI, but everything was fine. I even tried quercetin, tht supposedly helps with chronic pelvic pain, but it did basically nothing. Anyway thank a lot, because you always take the time to answer my questions 🙂

    • Madge hirsch November 21, 2018 at 1:56 pm Reply

      Great to hear that you are starting to see some overall improvement. Hope it continues. Could be that the bladder will be the last thing to heal and a year from now you will be back telling us how much better it i s. Hope the latest news from the EMA has given you a boost. It is a step in the right direction and you helped bring it about .Best wishes Madge

  9. Andrea November 20, 2018 at 3:12 pm Reply

    Oh and another thing.
    Since I was considering that I was prescribed a FQ for no reason, or to say it in medical term “as prevention” ( I still like to know what he was trying to prevent, since he said there was no infection) I’d like to know, from anyone of you, if you don’t mind of course, what was the reason of your prescription in the first place. I know many of us were poisoned by this s**t, like me, for no reason, but since almost every doctor at the EMA hearing said that these drugs are never used as prevention or as a first choice, I’d like to know the actual truth. It’s just a thing I was thinking about lately.
    Thanks everyone.

    • Joanne. November 21, 2018 at 5:02 am Reply

      Hi Andrea ,
      I would encourage you to try Wobenzyme.
      I was dealing with bladder pressure and constant urination and these enzymes helped almost immediately. I would definitely give them a try if I were you.

      • Joanne. November 21, 2018 at 5:31 am Reply

        Here’s a site that talks about how systemic enzymes like Wobenzyme can help with bladder issues. https://losethebackpain.com/interstitial-cystitis-systemic-enzymes/

      • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 6:30 am Reply

        Thanks a lot Joanne. I’ll defenetly look it up.
        Can I ask you when did you start to deal with these bladder issues? I mean, was it something you already had or it all started after the FQ? What was the reason the doctor prescribed it to you? If you don’t mind sharing, of course.

  10. Dee November 21, 2018 at 8:06 am Reply

    Joanne, what brand of Wobenzyme do you use?? How long have you been taking it and how much? Do you really feel a difference?

    • Joanne. November 21, 2018 at 11:36 am Reply

      Hi Dee,
      Here’s a copy of my post from November 6th
      Joanne. November 6, 2018 at 8:55 am Reply
      Hi Everyone,
      I wanted to tell you’s what WobenzymeN has done for me in just one month.
      I started taking it because I had (what i guess cuz i dont go to doctors anymore) was a
      Uti that wouldn’t go away with oregano oil which usually works. Anyhow I took the enzymes thinking that’s how are bodies naturally kill bacteria and viruses when they enter our systems. Well it stopped the uti, helped my shoulder pain, cleared my brain fog, gave me great energy, helped my digestive issues, and before fq’s my stomach was always flat but simce fq’s a thick roll of fat accumulated on my lower stomach but since taking the enzymes its melting away to where its almost flat.
      All this in less than a month of taking them and I don’t even take as many as they suggest. I take 2 in the morning and 1 before bed and the only other thing I take is 400mgs of magnesium.
      So I would definitely encourage everyone to at least give them a try.
      Also, before the enzymes i could only drink a half a cup of coffee since being floxed but now i can drink as much as i want it no longer bothers me.

      • Dee November 21, 2018 at 12:25 pm Reply

        Hi Joanne! Thanks for the info! It definetly sounds promising? What brand of wobenzyme N do you take or is there only one kind?? I’m 17 months out with a handful of lingering symptoms. Slow but sure getting there. I still worry a lot about getting all the way recovered. The biggest annoyance and constant irritation is the pulsating tinnitus. Drives me bananas! Especially going to sleep and waking up! I hope it will quiet down!! Thanks for responding to me!!

      • Jackie Farrell November 27, 2018 at 6:05 am Reply

        drugs that cause suicide, yes fluoroquinolones are amongst them.https://davidhealy.org/left-hanging-suicide-in-bridgend/

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2018 at 12:23 pm Reply

      Wobenzym N;not 100% safe.Before buying read this warning


  11. Dee November 21, 2018 at 12:32 pm Reply

    Henk, thanks for that article. It definetly makes you think twice about taking it!! So confusing to know what may help and what may do harm?? Hard to work your way through this maze!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2018 at 1:23 pm Reply

      Don’t panic,Dee,first of all read the warnings in the article and consider if you could be allergic to one of those enzymes,or the fruits (papaya and pine-apple.If not,you might bconsider to give it a try.But it’s quite expensive.

      I was really amazed by the long list of positive effects Joanne had experienced herself.First thing I thought was: she forgot to mention that,after taking this miracle stuff,you’ll look 20 years younger (warning here,for people of around 20 years old ;-)) And let’s not forget the “fact”that ,when taking this gift of heaven,your IQ raises with at least 20-30 points.

      Maybe it’s “When it sounds too good to be true,it,most of the time,IS too good to be true.Joanne,your posting made me think of another person who,a little while ago posted such an extremely positive article here and,later on,proved to be involved in a pyramid system. I hope you’re not one of those kind of people;for now I consider you only a happy (and lucky) user.

  12. Andrea November 21, 2018 at 12:37 pm Reply

    Henk, I’m answering you here. Thnaks a lot for the link.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2018 at 1:26 pm Reply

      Happy to be able to help you,and very happy that this guy is still there,selling the Sota equipment.I,like you,prefer buying in the EU.

  13. Dee November 21, 2018 at 12:56 pm Reply

    Andrea, how long ago were you floxed? I’m very happy to hear that you are feeling much better!! I know you have your bladder issue still bothering you but it is a positive that your other symptoms are really starting to improve!! I think in more time your bladder issues will also lessen!

    • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 1:49 pm Reply

      Hi Dee. In December it’ll be my second anniversary of this madness. Yeah, I feel much better compared to the way I felt in the summer of 2017. That was the worst part, the scariest. But I don’t consider myself healed at all. I don’t think any of us will ever heal completely, I mean to feel the same as before the FQ exposure. Sure you can improve, a lot. But to heal, to get back as you were before, I don’t think so. Sorry to bring it like this, but that’s how I feel. And for the bladder, well, it only got worse since the FQ, so I don’t think it’s going to be any better. I dont’ know…reading some stories here, I consider myself lucky, but, if I think how I felt just 2 years ago…oh boy! do I feel so older and weaker now… 😦
      I was so full of energy. I liked physical activity. I liked to lift weights,I liked to run. Last week I’ve tried to “run”.It was just a light jog, for 10 minutes, and for the following 5-6 days my ankles and shins were on fire…

      • Madge hirsch November 21, 2018 at 2:09 pm Reply

        I know how you feel. One of the real drags is having to get used to ” new normals” – to accept that you can no longer do the things you used to do and that there is no certainty that that will change. When I look back to what I could do before the latest floxing I cannot accept that another 4 years of age would ever make so much difference even in one’s sixties. Having to coddle one’s tendons and not overdo simple things like houseworrk or gardening is a drag. Walking any distance gives me pains in the Achilles and I am petrified of having a rupture so I tend not to walk that much. I then worry about being too sedentary!

        • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 3:39 pm

          Yeah…I know what you mean, to worry to be too sedentary. That’s horrible, isn’t it? It is well known how physical activity is so protective against many diseases and it also mekes you feel good. And now what? I sometimes can’t even stand for too long without pain in my ankles. Anyway, if you don’t mind sharing, what was the reason for your first prescription of FQ, Madge?

        • A.Coleman November 26, 2018 at 10:18 am


          While I too refuse to believe that 3 + years of aging could produce the individual I am after floxing – I still believe full recovery is out there. I still see an upward trajectory in my recovery even though though like most floxies it is 5 steps forward 4 steps back. I am in a bad relapse right now going on 3rd month, but not giving up hope. Some day – one day.

          As to your movement issues – and being scared to exercise – have you tried swimming or water aerobics? Those will have limited impacts on your tendons while providing lots of great resistance to strengthen muscles. I have kept up with my exercising even when I was most severely floxed. What I do and how much I can do has certainly changed but I even still run – just not as fast, far or frequently replacing most running with things like rowing machines or swimming and adding in yoga and tai chi for both meditation and stretching.

          Good luck and don’t give up hope of full or nearly full recovery.

  14. Dee November 21, 2018 at 2:10 pm Reply

    Andrea, thanks for your response. I don’t know if any of us are truly ever the same after being floxed but in many stories I’ve read that people feel mostly better and some even better then pre flox so let’s not give up hope for feeling at least close to fully recovered! You mentioned that you had bladder issues before getting floxed so I’m sure that is s weak point for you and just may take longer to recover and bounce back. I know my GI system was a mess before getting floxed and that is taking a long time to heal too compared to my other symptoms but I hold out hope it will get better. I think you will run again and if you have to start with 5 min of jogging at a time and build up that’s ok! Just keep at it and don’t give up. I think we have to jump start ourselves again and send a message to our body what we want from it! May I ask how much FQ you took to get floxed? Also I don’t know how old you are but I am 62 and I have already come to terms with the fact that it may take me longer to heal then a younger person but I try to keep believing I will still get there in the end!!! Look how much better you are 2 years later! You ARE moving forward!!

    • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 4:01 pm Reply

      Thanks for your kind words, Dee. It’s really appreciated.
      I’m 32 now, being floxed when I was 30 and in my best physical shape, except for that bladder issue I experienced after a surgery I had a year prior, wich didn’t bothered me that much, but it was the reason that brought me to that ignorant doctor who prescribed me the FQ. In his on words : “you don’t have an infection, and I don’t think that giving you this medication will give you some benefits, but it is worth a try”. Looking back to that day, I realize how stupid and naive I’ve been to trust that dumbass. Something inside me was telling me to not listen to him, but then I thought “hey, he’s the doctor, he knows what he’s doing”, and since I’m the son of two doctrors, he was even more reliable to my eyes.
      Anyway, I took a total of 6, 500 mg pills of Prulifloxacin. By the 5th day, I started to feel that damn tingling sensation to the left achilles tendon. At day 6, I stopped the “medication”.

      • Anna November 21, 2018 at 4:08 pm Reply

        I am in my 30’s, great shape, took only ONE pill and developed orbital tendinitis and all the other legs problems/tingling/weakness people get. Now, 4 months later, I am still having issues on and off, the worst is the swelling that developed under my eyes, I look like a different person. Literally, over night my under eye muscle has developed huge bubbles of, I am guessing, fluid. I’ve tried Burdock root, Bromelain, Turmeric/black pepper, Cherry juice supplements, nothing works. Anyway, I guess the point I am making is I do not think there is much difference between one pill, six pills, or twenty. I think being floxed is like being pregnant, there is no half way. Or, being floxed is like a herpe virus, you don’t half way catch it. If you are floxed, you are floxed, and it is up to your own personal genetic make-up and wellness to determine how bad it will be and how long it lasts.

        • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 4:37 pm

          I agree with you Anna. Good point. Some people, took many rounds of cipro or avelox, during their lifetime, and never developed any symptoms. Some of us, are affected by just one pill, like in your case. That’s so weird.

        • L November 21, 2018 at 5:55 pm

          Totally agree. It doesn’t matter how many pills someone too. My damage started after one…I kept taking it until I got to four, but the damage started after one, and kept going until almost every part of my body was assaulted. And there was that book Bitter Pills, written by journalist Stephen Fried after his wife was poisoned by an earlier quinolone. She suffered a psychotic break after ONE of these little toxic bombs.

      • Madge hirsch November 25, 2018 at 8:05 am Reply

        I now believe I was first floxed nearly 30 years ago but cannot verify it as my English medical records would have been destroyed after 10 years of leaving UK. I think I was then floxed again in 1999 while still living in UK . Both times it would have been given for upper respiratory tract infections – sinusitis and post flu cough. My chronic sinusitis was cured by acupuncture in the end! Here in France I had an iv combo of Cipro and Flagyl in2014 for diverticulitis and in 2015 was given Cipro for a suspected UTI ( not confirmed by urine analysis). Luckily that time I only took one capsule before looking up Cipro online! It was reading about the tendon issues that made me believe I had had this previously. A more detailed account of all this is in the comments on Bronwen’s recovery story .

  15. Dee November 21, 2018 at 4:00 pm Reply

    Andrea, if you don’t mind me asking how much FQ did you take? Were your first two years of recovery really hard or did you improve pretty quickly?

  16. Andrea November 21, 2018 at 4:32 pm Reply

    As I wrote in the previous post, it all started with a tingling/burning sensation in the left achilles tendon. It went on like this for the first 2 weeks. Then the pain moved to the other ankle too. It expanded to both my shins and basically to all the lower legs area. It was not steady. I remember during the night, before getting to sleep was the worst. It went on like this for 5-6 months. Then all the symptoms really hit me . I don’t know if it was the extremely hot weather, or the stress I was experiencing during that time, or both, but it was just scary.
    I was always extremely tired and dizzy. Light headed. All the bones in my legs hurt so much. I was experiencing shortness of breath, even if I was sitting. My bladder issues fleared up. I was urinating like 10-12 times a day. Sometimes even more than that. I was so desperate. It was a non stop hell of pain. At that time I was still drinking coffee. As I stopped, I realized how bad it was for me. As a matter of fact, I’ve only had one coffee in almost 2 years, and it immediately gave me a light relapse that lasted for almost 2 days, but it was enough to make me feel all those terryfing symptoms again. Anyway, I started to get a little better by the end of august or the beginning of september. But that summer was the worst time of my life.
    One of the most irritating thing about being floxed, at least in my case, is that, apparently, I look normal, healhty. So, many friends and people in general tend not to belive me, when I say to them that I’m ill, or sick.
    So they always stress that I don’t smile enough, and start to say dumb stuff like : “ehy you should smile a little, why are you so serious”. And inside me, I’m like : “F**k you, mot*******er! I’d like to see how’d you feel, if you were walking in my shoes right now!”. Yeah, being grumpy is defently another FQ side effect. They shuld add this in the list of “rare side effects” on the label.

    • L November 21, 2018 at 6:00 pm Reply

      you know I have always been worse (since floxing) in the heat. unbearable. And I am with you on the F*ck you! I think if anyone experienced what I have experienced over the last few years…for even TEN MINUTES, they would freak out! I couldn’t imagine someone could feel that sick and still be living. No one will ever know and what I went through was so nightmarish there just are not words to adequately describe it.

      • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 7:10 pm Reply

        I agree L.
        I told many people that I know, almost the same thing : I wish you’d feel what I felt for just one week (and then of course get better again, I don’t wish this life to anyone) and see if you’d start to see life by another point of view…

  17. Dee November 21, 2018 at 4:37 pm Reply

    Andrea, you are young and took a fairly low dose of FQs. I know your bladder may take longer but I really believe yij will get there in due time! Hang in there and keep the faith!! You have a lot in your favor with your good health previous to floxing, your youth and the fact that you have made good improvement in the last two years. I think you will keep improving and healing. Keep believing!!

    • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 4:41 pm Reply

      Thanks Dee. If you don’t mind asking, why you were prescribed FQ in the first place? and how much of it did you take?

  18. Dee November 21, 2018 at 5:19 pm Reply

    Andrea, in June of 17 I got a UTI and I took a full round of Bactrum that did not get rid of it so Doc put me on 2×500 mg a day of Cipro for 10 days. After taking 7 pills (3 and a half days) I started getting neuropathy in my lower legs pins and needles along with numbness. I also just felt real strange and “off”. I stopped taking the meds. I then took 2 pills of a new antibiotic “macrobid” and my neuropathy went through the roof so that just added to the problem. From there my symptoms got way worse for the next 6-7 months with many issues. Brain fog, dizzy, headaches and head pressure,horrible insomnia, anxiety, severe tinnuitis, GI issues, achy sore joints and muscles,blurry eyes, dry eye and dry mouth, itchy rash on back, 50lb weight loss, fatigue. I was depressed, worried and anxious and felt like a walking zombie! Now a year in a half later I have improved a lot but still dealing with some GI issues, mild anxiety, pulsating tinnitus and waking up early. I keep praying and hoping that by the 2 year mark I am mostly better and especially this damn tinnitus is a lot more quiet or even better gone!! As I said I am older being 62 so I figure it will take me longer but I’m trying to think positive since I have made a lot of improvement. I think healing and recovery takes a lot of time so we have to be patient! Easy to say hard to do! Do you feel mostly recovered other then your bladder issues?

    • Andrea November 21, 2018 at 7:32 pm Reply

      Do I feel mostly recovered? Yes and no. There’re days when I’m almost pain free. No achy joints, no fatigue. But these are rare days. Most of the time, my ankles hurt. Not bad as they used to, but still, they hurt. Not 24 hrs a day. Maybe 3/4 times during a day. They expecially get worse when I walk “a lot” or if I stand on my feet for a long time (more then 15-20 minutes). Now, as far as energy issues/sugar drops, I’ve improved quite a lot, but I defently still experience some days when I feel weaker, but this could also be due to the fact that I can’t sleep a full night of sleep, because of my bladder…there’re nights where I can’t even fall asleep because of the pressure in my pelvis. Today, I feel lucky if I can sleep 4, max 5 hrs non stop. Another good thing is that I can now eat whatever I want, without side effects. Of course it’s not that good for my health if, instead of eating clean, I eat crap all day, but even when that’s the case, it doesn’t bother me like it used to. I remember dairy and sugar were terrrble during that awfoul summer.
      But one thing that really didn’t improved since I’ve got floxed, is the way I look at life now. I know I should be grateful to be still alive and able to walk by myself, to see and so on, but I still consider myself a crippled. I know this might offend someone, but this is just the way I feel. I’m not gonna lie.

  19. Dee November 22, 2018 at 7:44 am Reply

    Andrea. I understand your view on life now as being floxed definetly changed you and traumatizes you but don’t give up on seeing more improvement and healing. You can still keep healing and I believe you will. Have you tried ozone IVs? I have read about a few floxies having luck with those especially for the neuropathy. I also read a study that ozone helps flush stick FQ out of the cells and tissues. Just throwing that out there. I’m not sure what you have already tried?? Just don’t give up on getting better!!

    • Andrea November 22, 2018 at 8:18 am Reply

      Nope, never tried ozone Iv’s or therapy. The problem with this new methods, is that we don’t really know if this is just another scam or even worse, potentially dangerous.

      • L November 22, 2018 at 11:37 am Reply

        Like anything else, everyone reacts differently, but I can tell you that my ND, who I attribute with saving my life used ozone (along with nutrient IVs) on the other half dozen floxies he treated. The only reason he didn’t use it on me is that he was giving me H2O2 IVs to help get me off of steroidal asthma inhalers…and the H2O2 and ozone have much overlap. (He also used it on virtually ALL his cancer patients, some who were fighting all naturally, and others who were trying to undo the chemo damage. He also used it on all his lyme patients as well as one women who had mold toxicity.) It’s definitely not a scam.

  20. Andrea November 22, 2018 at 8:19 am Reply
    • Barbara November 22, 2018 at 9:13 am Reply

      I have had ozone autohemotherapy in vithas hospital Alicante. The medical Doctor has been doing it for 20 years. It really helped me and as long as you get an expert in ozone therapy, it’s perfectly safe. There is so much information about the benefits on the net. I thoroughly researched it first and I have to say it was great for me. Like anything it’s not a cure, but it can help in so many ways. I occasionally still go for top ups and he infuses vitamin C in the ozone at the same time. For me the only downside is the cost. 100 euros a session and you need at least 10 sessions. You will get there Andrea, it just takes time. So hold on and keep going until you get there.

    • L November 22, 2018 at 11:46 am Reply

      Even this article explains how it is beneficial. The only caveat is you should not breathe it. There are ozone tents, but my doctor advised against those because, even though your head is sticking out, some will still necessarily come up and out of the tent and into your face. However, with ozone given directly into the veins, that is not an issue.

  21. Dee November 22, 2018 at 8:51 am Reply

    Andrea. I understand. Was just throwing it out there. Keep plugging away. You have made a lot of progress so there is no reason not to believe that you will keep moving forward. Time heals so many even if it isn’t on “our” time table. Keep the faith. You “still” have a strong body that is working hard to heal. I think in due time it will come through for you.

  22. Dee November 22, 2018 at 10:11 am Reply

    Barbara. You haven’t posted for awhile. You always are so positive and encouraging! You helped calm me down and feel better a few times as I think staying calm, hopeful and positive is half of this challenging battle!! Thank you for that! How are you doing?? I hope as time marches on that you are continuing to see more improved days! I can’t remember how long you have been floxed for but I know you are slowly taking steps forward one day at a time. I am thinking of looking into ozone treatment after the new year. I am about a year in a half out and need to get to that finish line with a few lingering symptoms. I know I should give it at least a couple of years but was hoping the ozone would push it along. Where were you in your recovery when you started the ozone?

    • Barbara November 22, 2018 at 10:48 am Reply

      Aaaaaaaah thank you Dee. The reason I haven’t posted for a while is my husband is going through chemo and radiotherapy, so I am focusing on him and I just check here now and again.
      I am doing well apart from some tendon issues at night and low energy. I would definitely go for more ozone as it helps a lot with low energy and burning. When my husband is through this I will go for more ozone. I was doing well but a year ago last November I had a fall and compressed my spine and it was a bit of a setback, but I am healed from that now. I had ozone about 2, years in and until I had a massive reaction from a nerve induction test I felt almost back to normal. Like I said it’s not a cure but it sure helped me. The other thing that helped me was hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Those two things with CBD oil for insomnia and Kratom for pain were the game changers for me. The only supliments I take now are magnesium and Vit D3 and K,2.
      Just make sure if you have ozone therapy you go to a reputable therapist.
      Also we are all different. But I am now 75 years young and I have come a long way after 4 years. So I know you can do it.

      • L November 22, 2018 at 11:49 am Reply

        yes I would mention as well that along with ozone therapy the one thing my doctor always encourages patients to do is hyperbaric. It’s very very expensive here…and I am so claustrophobic that was off the table from the beginning. They would have to use a mallet on me first! I hope you husband is doing better.

      • Andrea November 22, 2018 at 3:15 pm Reply

        D3 and K2 are so important. Not only for us floxies. Everyone should consider taking those 2 supplements, expecially during winter. We should aim to get our D3 levels at around 50 ng/ml.

  23. Dee November 22, 2018 at 11:41 am Reply

    Barbara. That is so awesome to hear that you are doing well and slowly getting back to a normal life at your young age!!! I am 62 so worry about my age but you definetly inspire me!! I’m sorry to hear that your husband is going through chemo and I wish the very best for his recovery! I’m sure you support, love and encourage him everyday which is so healing in itself. Prayers and blessings for you and your family. Let’s continue to find strength!

  24. Dee November 22, 2018 at 12:45 pm Reply

    L. Thanks for the info on the ozone too. I’m definetly considering it to “help” me get to the finish line with my lingering symptoms. It probably won’t help my tinnitus though…argh…. how is your tinnitus doing? Has it made any improvement lately?

    • L November 22, 2018 at 5:19 pm Reply

      no, no improvement. In fact I think it’s gotten louder recently. But honestly, I have bigger things to worry about….diagnosed with macular degeneration after the cipro, and that seems to have elevated, and still having a congestion/breathing issue for about 7 months now, so…the tinnitius, as annoying as it is, is really the least of my worries

      • Dee November 23, 2018 at 8:39 am Reply

        L. So sorry to hear about your eyes. Has the Doc offered any solution to delay it or help prevent it? Hopefully you can resolve your congestion issue in time too. I’m sending good thoughts your way to find healing for both and I hope in time things will improve for you. You’ve been through a lot and it has given you a lot of strength. Have continued hope and faith in your body to heal.

        • L November 23, 2018 at 10:46 am

          Thanks Dee. Sadly all the retinal specialists are all very rigid AMA/FDA types, but I am taking lots of supplements (more things than what they recommend) and I just have to kind of wait and see what happens. The congestion issue is a puzzle that no one can seem to figure out. I just wish I didn’t have to spend so many of my waking hours trying to figure out how to fix it. At about 3 years out, other than the eyes (and tinnitus and a couple other things) I felt like I could finally move on with my life, but this prevents me from finding pt work or doing a lot of other things. I am so pissed that this has now cost me almost 4 years of my life, with no apparent end in sight (no pun intended.)

      • Don M November 23, 2018 at 9:04 am Reply

        Macular Degeneration……………… I have macular degeneration (am 84) and am being treated by Retinal Consultants of Arizona. I get an eye injection (of the drug Avastin) in each eye about every 8 weeks. It has seemed to slow and possibly reverse some of the problems of macular degeneration. If you are not already……. look into consulting a retina specialist and the possibility that eye injections could help you. Mine is covered by my health insurance.
        Congestion…………. I ran onto a home made remedy that is supposed to help with congestion. 1 tablespoon apple cider vinegar, 1 table spoon of warm coconut oil,1 tea spoon of honey, all in ginger tea. Instead of ginger tea I use a little bit of warm water and a couple of ginger capsules. Try it. It might help you and these ingredients are not likely to hurt you. Also Boswellia Serrata is said to help with congestion. Research it.

        • L November 23, 2018 at 10:51 am

          I see a retinal specialist. I started seeing one the month after cipro. In fact this group is highly regarded across the state, and the original one I saw here gives talks around the world. He is about as lauded as one can get. I stopped seeing him when he was dismissive about the cipro (and I found out he took 250,000 from big pharma.) They all do. The one I see now took around 40,000. He is not quite as dismissive though re the damage that flq do.
          The injections are only for wet macular degeneration. I have the dry form and there is nothing for that. There are studies on an eye drop they are working on, but who knows when that will be available to the public.

          I have tried those things for the congestion. I now have a full one page single spaced sheet of everything I have tried. But thanks for the suggestions.

  25. ciprovictim November 23, 2018 at 2:43 am Reply

    i am 19 months out (i have took Cipro for 5 days) and i am still experiancing brainfog, achillodynia, sicca syndrom, floaters and lights. i am 80% better than a year ago, but the brainfog is still very present.
    is there any hope to heal the brain? i was floxed in the age of 36, now i am 38

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2018 at 3:50 am Reply

      I’ve never believed in the existance of zombies.But now,since I’ve taken Cipro 2 years ago……

      Well,actually,like almost all syptoms of Cipro poisoning,this zombie-feeling is fluctuating between mild and severe,only my eye problem is pretty constant (double vision;my right eye won’t cooperate with my left eye,and starts to walk around time after time during the day,every day).

      Have some floaters in my left eye (the “obedient” one);those are transperant floaters,not the black ones (had those before,shortly after a course with other AB’s).Those would annoy me,weren’t it for that right eye,walking around.My right eye is my sharpest eye,and the double vision makes me half crazy,at times!

      I’m using the Bio Tuner (Bob Beck) since 2 weeks,several days a week,and I’m feeling a bit more “present” now,my memory working a bit better as well. I hope this improvement continues and will be permanent.Time is to short for conclusions but I will come back on my experiences with that Bio Tuner in time.(Beck called it Brain Tuner but for political reasons the name was changed).

      By the way:as you might have noticed I’m quite enthousiastic about the devices,invented by Bob Beck (and now produced by Sota,the company of a friend of Beck,and with his permision).I made a study of his life and works and have great respect and admiration for this man.He invented the “toy’s” for his Beck Protocol and gave them to humanity;published all information,including the electronic diagrams,on the web,for everyone to build their own,and didn’t want to earn a penny on it.Ohh,the flash in your smartphone,and on your camera,that’s the first of many inventions he did in his life.Quite an interesting and extremely smart man!Full name: Robert C. Beck.

      I’m in now way connected to Sota,or a reseller of those devices,might someone suspect.Just a happy user of the Beck Protocol and the devices.

      • L November 23, 2018 at 10:28 am Reply

        Hey Henk, among my dozens of side effects, my eyes really took a hit. My floaters were so large an thick and plentiful that it was like looking through gauze for the first year. (Or as a fellow floxie put it so well, like looking through egg drop soup.) I also had those little black dot ones too that would appear to completely cover walls and floors. One thing that did help was Can-C eyedrops—or vision clarity eye drops (used mostly for cataracts). You have to be consistent about using them…4x day. I did that for about 6 months and it did help. I still have floaters but they are a fraction of what they were.

        I also had extreme light sensitivity.. it was actually painful to go outside. I would wear a hat sunglasses and then hold something directly in front of my face. Ditto fluorescent lighting. Both have improved, but not quite normal.

        I also had my eyes seeing two different things. NOT double vision, but two separate pictures because my brain was not melding them together…something we do all the time automatically without thinking about it. That went away on its own after a few months. Unfortunately within a month of the cipro I was diagnosed with macular degeneration. I have read that the macula can be damaged by mitochondrial disease, and of course we all know that cipro attacks mitochondria. I am most pissed off, of all my frightening side effects, of the damage to my eyes. I had had an early form of lasik, and my vision was almost perfect.

        At any rate, I suspect that zombie eye will rehabilitate at some point on its own. IF the floaters still bother you, try one of the above drops. I haven’t gotten rid of mine completely, but there are times during the day where I don’t see any, or only one, and I never thought I would get to that point.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2018 at 11:48 am

          Hi L. I have my doubts about those eye-drops because that first time I had floaters (black;they told me it were tiny bits of blood) I didn’t use anything but afet 1/2-3/4 year most of it was gone.Part of it is,in fact,your brain,starting ti ignorde taking notice of those floaters.

          I had (have?) that light sensibility as well but now summer has gone and the sky is,most of the time,cloudy,this is not a problem.The sensitivity was getting less severe,anyway.

          The other problem,you call seeing two different things,is actually what I call “double vision”,because it’s not two different things but two times the same thing,and,like you,I think this problem is not in the eye itself but in the brain.Many people with,more or less,the same problem after Cipro and family haf been through intense examinations of their eyes without any damage to the eye ever been discovered.Must be the nerves,the brain or both.

          With my zombie remark I wasn’t pointing to my eye but about that (almost) constant feling of being “detachted ” from the rest of the world,and the feeling of a head full of cotto,mud,concrete or whatever.My capability of focussing on what I’m doing is,most of the day,almost zero,and,e.g. while cooking I can’t do anything else without risk of cremating my food.No point in going to my doctor with all these adverse reactions;the first time I mentioned those,two weeks after I had my 4 pills of Cipro she reacted quite angry and almost shouted to me she’d never heard any complaint about Cipro.I think it’s her angry reaction that keeps Cipro victims from pushing through and tel doctors like her what’s happened.

          The same doctor gave Cipro 6 years earlier(bladdr infection) but on my way back home I noticed my fever was going down (I was doing part of the Beck Protocol at that time,started 2-3 days before I went to the doctor).After I arrived home I waited for 1/2 hour untill my body was acclimated (was freezing outside) and measured my temperature,and indeed,it was going down.So,I went on doing Beck Protocol and a few days later the infection had gone,without any medication.A few days later I was in my doctors office (controle) and told her that I didn’t use the Cipro and she got angry.

          Then I didn’t understand because I was cured without any risk of attributing to the growing resistance of bacteria against Cipro,and other AB’s.Both her reactions make me think,today,that they actually WANT you to get hurt by their medicines;they need your money and adverse reactions are big business.There are good doctors,I’m (almost) ssure of that but there are way to many busines men and women who pretend to be there to heal you but in fact are busy with generating as much money possibe for themselfes and their partners in crime (Farmaffia etc.).

      • Flox December 17, 2018 at 8:07 am Reply

        Hallo Henk,
        did you heal from brainfog?

  26. L November 23, 2018 at 12:17 pm Reply

    No actually double vision is something different than what I am talking about. With that you see two of whatever you are looking at what I referred to was seeing a different picture out of each eye. Very disturbing.

    It really is remarkable how offended most doctors get when you say you don’t want these poisons. I think it is for many different reasons. One is arrogance. How dare you question someone with a medical degree! Another us brainwashing. This is how they are taught. That’s the difference between them and NDs. A pill for everything! Then as you say they have a profit motive. I am sure sone go into the profession wanting to do good work. But they are corrupted and brainwashed by the system.

  27. Andrea November 23, 2018 at 5:16 pm Reply

    “the first time I mentioned those,two weeks after I had my 4 pills of Cipro she reacted quite angry and almost shouted to me she’d never heard any complaint about Cipro”…Hey henk, why don’t you send her an email with the new EMA reccomendation about FQ’s, or tell her to see the whole hearing on youtube…those dumb F**ks

    • Don M November 23, 2018 at 5:38 pm Reply

      Have you all seen that Canada has now officially come out on the subject of retinal detachment and Fluoroquinolones? Every day it is becoming more obvious that doctors have egg on their faces when they won’t acknowledge the insidiousness of Fluoroquinolones.

      • Madge hirsch November 25, 2018 at 9:23 am Reply

        Yes – the ANSM here in France has just put a warning on it’s website about aortic aneurysm and fluoroquinolone exposure. I think the EMA recommendations are going to make a difference to prescribing in Europe. They have more clout in socialised medicine systems where tax payer’s money is funding healthcare.

    • Barbara Arnold November 23, 2018 at 11:43 pm Reply

      If there is anything that sends me into orbit, it’s when I hear Doctors treating patients like they are idiots. They are arrogant in the extreme.
      You now have ‘something’ at least from the EMA hearings recommending the restrictions of fluroquinolones, which you can shove under their noses along with the multitude of evidence that’s out there.
      My Doctor and Pharmacist received the results of the hearing on their computers from the Spanish government. They were on board before, as I had campaigned quite hard before, but now my Doctor says he will never prescribe them again. And my local pharmacist says he thinks they will die out in a year. Hope so, but don’t know.
      Please Henk, Andrea and anyone else do not let these morons treat you that way, they are not Gods and have no right to get angry with you. Arm yourselves with evidence whenever you visit your Doctor, whether they accept it or not, you are showing you know what your talking about.
      When I get the chance I’m taking it to the arrogant Reumatologist who was horrible to me when I was at my weakest, and I will let her know that now, “Although this is Spain not America” (her words when I told her about the FDA black box warnings in America ) That yes “This is Spain with even more restrictions recommended from your own Spanish Government” Can’t wait.

      • L November 24, 2018 at 12:45 am Reply

        I would go armed with papers and they wouldn’t even look at them. I did get great satisfaction though taking an article from the Journal Neurology to the neurologist who said I was delusional. (I didn’t get the pleasure of seeing his face when he read it, but I am sure he must have felt ridiculous, since when I went back to get my file again, having lost the first one, he refused to give me the part with this notes. Of course I eventually got them.) But given they they still hand these out like candy in the US, I don’t think the doctors ever get alerted, and they sure as hell don’t take time to inform themselves.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 4:48 am Reply

        “This is Spain,not America”??? Ohh,now I understand.Cipro and other poison works different on European people than on Americans.How stupid of me to not understand that right away :-((

        It suprises me time after time that,when “new discoveries” in America prove that a medicine isn’t safe,and they change their regulations,regarding that medicin,Europe “first has to do their own research” before they change the EU regulations.What’s wrong with those american safety-regulations?When the US change ttheir safety-regulations there is good reason for that,and the EU can ask for the US reports,and base their descisions on those,like they did with the safety-reports from Monsanto showing that THEIR OWN poison is perfectly safe.No EU research needed!

        The stronger restrictions for FQ’s in the US where made in 2015,and the “We have to do our own research if there is reason to believe Cipro and family might be dangerous” mentality has given Bayer 3 extra years of selling Cipro and poisoning people without the stronger restrictions they got in the US.And let’s not forget Bayer,Basf,Hoechst (IG Farben),and other multinationals created the EU,and not for making us happy citizens,they did.Sameold money and power story.

        I’m suprised that your doctor and farmacist seem to be so critical about FQ’s and positive for banning those “medicines”. Here both doctors and farmacists are way more industry-friendly.And way less friendly about the internet,and to critical patients.But you’re right: staying silent doesn’t help.

        • Barbara Arnold November 24, 2018 at 6:14 am

          Spot on Henk, it really does make me despair, but we have to continue and not let the ‘money men’ get it all their own way.
          Don’t forget it’s taken 4 years for me to convince the medical profession here, but I think a large majority of them knew anyway, they just kept quiet because they were getting away with it, and they could never admit they were poisoning people. My own Doctor had no idea and was shocked when a Rheumatologist took my medical history and diagnosed ‘side effects from Cipro’. So that proves they knew, but they thought it was ‘rare’ so continued to prescribe them.
          Ha ha, when she said “this is Spain not America” I thought, “oh okay, she doesn’t mind poisoning her own people then” I am going to see her again in the future and let her know how she made me feel when I was so vunerable.
          Also I found out the EMA is funded by 80% from the pharmaceutical industry. Say’s it all really.

        • L November 24, 2018 at 11:38 am

          wow—I am impressed you have a rheumatologist that aware. Most of us are sent there as a first stop because all doctors assume we have some kind of autoimmune disease. When my cardiologist (who diagnosed the pericardial effusion post cipro) said that’s who I needed to see, he said he couldn’t even give me a good referral! I ended up just picking one out myself and this guy turned out to be the second biggest jerk (after my neurologist who called me delusional). I went through everything with him and he could tell I was struggling to breathe. His suggestions? One—if I really think it is the cipro (of course he didn’t) I should call the manufacturer. (oh yea, it says side effects may be permanent, but they will have some special secret antidote just for me because I bothered to call!) and he said the breathing issue was because I was hyper-ventilating! I said “well I am now!” and got up and left. I would have liked to have made a dramatic exit and slammed the door behind me; but of course I was such a mess, it took me forever just to stand up, let alone leave the office.

      • Andrea November 25, 2018 at 8:41 am Reply

        “this is Spain not America” …right, like people in Spain can’t suffer the way people in USA do…the stupidity and arrogance of certain doctors is beyond me.
        Anyway, in two weeks I’m going to do another neurological exam, to see if the nerves in pelvic area are ok. I called the clinic, and they seemed very gentle and understanding. Anyway, I’ll follow your suggestion. I’ll bring with me all the papers I can find. And when someone there will tell me that there’re a no proofs… here you go!

      • Madge hirsch November 25, 2018 at 9:28 am Reply

        Oh I do hope she has the grace to look ashamed! My own GP has changed his attitude to FQs and I think the EMA recommendations will consolidate that. I was very careful to only take stuff to him from reputable scientific journals articles that had umpteen references in other journals and stuff from the FDA etc. I think this makes a difference.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 3:11 am Reply

      Andrea,I don’t have her email-address,in fact;I don’t know anyone who’s got the emailaddress of his/her doctor.Not common,here.And “Don’t trust the internet” doesn’t work anymore.Most of us know you have to check,and double-check the info.

      \Have given her information,printed out,once and she gave it a fast read but no reaction to me about it.Probably only made her angry that so much info “we shouln’t know” can be found on the web.

      Before she prescribed me the Cipro she told me that she had just received an official warning that she should not prescribe Cipro to peolple in combination with Flecainide Acetate.Then she phoned around for advice with several peolple (more than 1/2 hour,while a lot of people in the waiting room!) and after that told me that it should be save to use Cipro anyway if she put me on a lower dose of the Flecainide.And so she did;se subsribed me the Cipro and took 1/2 of the Flecainide dose off.Her gamble,my risk;the rest is history.

      What astonished me is the effort of phoning around more than 30 minutes,with all the other people waiting,to prescribe me this,and only this AB,while,as I know now,there are sveral alternative AB’s as effective for a bladder infection,which are a lot safer.And since I, little while ago,discovered that in 2010 she put me on Cipro as well (but I didn’t use it,which made her angry,too) it’s clear that Cipro is her way to go.I can only guess why this is her personal favorite,and the favorite of most doctors,here in The Netherlands but the most obvious reason for this is,of course,personal gain.

      Since she is my doctor she also tried to prescribe me Paroxitine (anti-depressivant) twice,for “falling asleep a bit better”;both times I refused.She assured me it is a mild anti-depressivant,and she’s right in that! I found information that research (on the original test-data) had shown it’s even less effective than the placebo effect!! But when you stop taking this medicine many people get really horrifying withdrawel symptoms,so severe that part of them ends up in the hospital! These are the medicines my doctor LOVES!

      In fact I have two doctors,who have a pratice together.The other is a male,and hardly any better. Prescribed me Diclofenac and gave me a Voltaren injection when I visited him with a very painfull kidney stone. Got very sick of the injection and did a search for Voltaren on the web.This is the same active ingredient which is in Diclofenac,and I found a warning NOT to prescribe this to people who recently got heart problems,like I did.Another attempt to kill me.

      Problem is:it’s difficult to go to an other doctor,here,because they flocked together in “Medical Centre’s”,and when you’re not satisfied with your doctor it’s forbidden to choose one of the other doctors in that centre. There are two other centre’s in my town but both at quite a distancee from my house,and I only own a bike.So,at the moment,I’m stuck with those two quacks,and probably most other doctors in this region aren’t much better.

      By now my “angry doctor” might have received a letter from EMA with the new directions but I don’t think that will change much;it didn’t when,in the USA,doctors got those new directions ,much like happens here,at the moment,and in the US it didn’t change much;most doctors still hand the poison pills over like candy’s and cookies.Fact is:the whole medical system is totaly corrupt,and rotten as hell. Sicker than their patients!!

      For now I have more trust in my Beck devices and the Beck Protocol,and my knowledge of natural medicine and healthy food,and of course:the web.But multinaltionals are lobbying for new laws that give them the possibility to censure the web, and I wouldn’t be suprised if they would succeed in getting that power/controle over what they allow us to know,or Not know.Bob Beck was right:”Take back your power”.That’s why he put all the info about how to build your own devices for the protocol on the web;available for everybody,and impossible to control by the Farmaffia and their allies (which he,disliked very much).

      By the way,here,in NL,they’ve introduced a new system for people who don’t want their kids to be vaccinated. Those “refusers” are now “invited” for a talk with a specialist who will try to convince them of the importance of vaccination (for us? Or for them!) And a discussion has started among medics and politicians about introducing mandatory vaccination,of this new system proves not to work (> 95 vaccinated is the goal).Fascism coming? Again?

      • L November 24, 2018 at 11:25 am Reply

        It’s many doctors favorite because it kills EVERYHTING and then they don’t have to keep searching for the right treatment. The “killing a fly with a machine gun” approach. When I went to a pulmonologist at the beginning of this nightmare, when the gasping for air was starting, he just laughed and said “couldn’t be the cipro. Cipro is great! I used it all the time!” And yes, thick as thieves, especially in the same town.

        When a kind doctor at the U of Indiana School of Medincine, who worked with floxies, offered to a phone consult for FREE with any doctor here (he couldn’t treat me since I am in CA,) not ONE of a dozen I asked including a gynecologist I had seen for over 20 years, would agree to do it. I think he might have used some pharmaceuticals…not sure, but I wanted to know what he would suggest that I could do personally, without any prescriptions. (His predecessor was someone who had been interviewed in an early PBS piece on flqs, and had recommended milk of magnesia, so he was definitely on the right track, early on, re the magnesium.) So I never got ANY of them to do the phone consult. I believe the reason was that that would be tantamount to admitting I was injured by the cipro, which they all use. And then anyone of the hundreds of patients they have given them to, could come back and say “you injured me.”

      • Madge hirsch November 25, 2018 at 9:39 am Reply

        From your mention of Flecainide I assume you are suffering from afib. Did this start after your first run in with Cipro in 2010 or did you already haveit. I ask because my first bout of afib started after a week after Cipro exposure.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2018 at 10:48 am

          It ( the more extreme arrythmea’s) started shortly after my first AB course (Amoxicilline and Metronidazole,in 2004),and got worse over time untill,in 2014,I was brought to the ER by ambulance,twice,in two weeks time.After the second time I stopped using Losec/Omeprazole,and since then I got a regular heartbeat.Since I started the Flecainide right after the first time in hospital,after 2 weeks they had to bring me back,again by ambulance (Waaaay more extensive than a normal taxi :-((

          After the second time I immedialtly stopped using Omeprazole and that solved the problem.Didin’t stop using the Flecainide out of pure ffear (I admit),despite of the fact that I’m convinced that I don’t need it anymore. It didn’t even work in the first place,otherwise the second time it wouldn’t have happened.

          But,right after starting the Cipro,I got terrible heart pulptations,the first while biking to the supermarket.Almost threw me from my bike;it was like somebody beating on my brestbone from the inside with a sledgehammer!My “great” (and angry) doctor for a heart movie of…..about 10 seconds! And,Murphy law,right BETWEEN two hefty pulptations.

          Then I descided to solve my problems myself,or just die.Not much interrest in living left,at the time because at that moment it was perfectly clear to me: I was sick for 20 years (!!) on row,caused by one “medicine” after another,given to me by those doctors who were,in my opinion the ones who had to cure you when you were ill,not to make you sich when you were (almost) healthy.

          And when more and more healthproblems started to rise,and I started to find out that they were all related to those 4 poison-pills I took,to “cure” me,it became obvious too me that I had to take control of my health myself.I first started to supplement more magnesium,and work on my pancreas and belly with my magnetic pulser to get rid of the hyper-and hypoglycemea.After 2 weeks I stopped pulsing because my bloodsugar was stable,but it came back (just stopped too early).Sarted again,using the MP,and continued,even when,after about two weeks my bloodsugarlevel was normal.

          It took a year or even a bit longer before this heart pulptations more or less disappeared,and just a cup of tea brought them back into my life,be it for just a short while (this happened twice,and since then I don’t drink a drop of tea anymore;before Cipro,tea was my main drink,I still have a big collection of tea’s,enough to start a little shop,but I fear I have to give away,or just dump them.

          The first time those hearth arythmia’s got really problematic was after the first AB course.Although it all started because of a magn. deficiency,caused by the Losec/Omeprazole,it was,probably,the Amoxicilline (a known magnesium robber) that things went totaly out of control.The second time was differend;not the heart arythmia’s I was “used to” from the first time,but different;my heart missing a beat,and the “compensating” with two extremely violent beats to pick up the ritm again.And that,time after time,in “attacks”.,with moments of functioning normal in between.Not in any way less frightening than those arythmics,years earlier

          In my opinion,both times a magnesium defficiency was the (main) cause of the problem,and I know that the list og medicines,causing a magnesium defficiency is growing fast.I think the body conciders every “unknown” substance,synthetic substances in particular,as poisons,and react on them removing them from the body as soon as possible.To do this it needs lots of magnesium.Remarkable: a while ago I read that one of the possible factors why some people,sometimes,have these severe adverse reactions after Cipro because they lack the magnesium,needed to handle the situation (=Poisoning).

          I started with Losec in 1998,so,by the time I had the first AB course,I had a magnesium deff. already,and a long list of related symptoms,including those irregular heartbeats,but they were not so extreme.They just came,and lasted for a few seconds to max 30 minutes.They,later on,lasted longer,and after a while I was so used to it that I even went asleep,while I had one.Most of the time they were gone when I woke up a few hours later,But when,after that first B course,those “attacks started to last longer,I started to get worried,and then: the grand finale:two times in two weeks an expensive ambulance ride to the hospital.

          So,it all started with that Losec,which my (old) doctor gave me without me asking for it.Then,already having a mag. deff. I got that first AB-course from my dental hygieniste which didn’t help a f**k but immediatly brought me in big troubles.After those hefty heart arrithmea’s I got the Flecainide,which gave me rockhard stools,and in the end,a double gut bleeding.Lucky me;I had a bladder infection at the same time,caused by a really big kidney stone which got stuck halfway between my bladder and the toilet.Had a fever (39,9 degrees C) and extreme pain,and descided to only use Paracetamole,because of the bleedings,and the danger of most other painkillers. And then my doctor descide to perscribe me the Cipro….

          Sorry for this,quite long,story of my missery. It shows how (some) medicines are good for selling even more medicines.And for creating missery…

  28. Mike Wallbridge November 24, 2018 at 3:02 am Reply

    I had an interesting visit yesterday to a widely respected herbalist who has already had experience of the fluoroquinolone toxicity problem, chiefly through a friend who had been floxed. For treatment, I came away with a tincture that will supposedly help with healing of tendons and ligaments but he also recommended that I eat a small amount of tamarind each day and showed me research that showed that it is wonderful at ridding the body of fluorine. Has anyone already come across this?

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 3:27 am Reply

      Hi Mike,no,never heard of that but I’m gonna do my research on te web.I love Tamarind;sometimes I make a Tamarind Syrup in summer,to make a lovely,refreshing limonade on hot days.(the Tamarind syrup in asian shops is salty,for meat preparation,and not suited to make a drink).

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 3:30 am Reply

      A first search on the web brought up a lot of linksHere’s one:


    • Dee November 24, 2018 at 8:50 am Reply

      Mark. I have read that tamarind does help detox fluoride. So does iodine. I have never tried tamarind as it is harder to find?? I do take iodine though to help with fluoride removal although I am 18 months out so am questioning weather it is still even in my body??? I would definetly try one or the other early on to detox fluoride for sure. Just my opinion. But flouride is part of the FQ poision that helps the FQ to get deeper into your body so you want that gone.

      • Anna November 24, 2018 at 9:06 am Reply

        I’ve been told one must tread carefully with Iodine supplementation. Supposedly, you can really screw up your thyroid by taking the wrong amount. The worst part is, every website seems to suggest a different amount to take. I bought Kelp supplements and took one pill per day, for one week, then stopped. I am not brave enough to take the amount recommended for detox. Do you have any knowledge about the recommended amount? Did you have any adverse effects from taking it in a detox dose?

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 9:51 am Reply

        Almost every toko (asian shop) sells Tamarind.Many have the fresh fruit for sale (which can be stored for quite a long time without getting bad).Almost every toko sells packages wilt the fruitpulp,with or without the seeds.I have a Tamarindplant in my livingroom since many years,grown of a seed from such a package.Very decorative,too,and one nice thing is the leaves,closing when the sun goes down,for the night.

        There’s another plant,with leaves that look the same,which also closes his leaves.Not like Tamarinde,because the sun goes down but when a leave is touched (Mimosa pudica).Both plants are from the same family.So;don’t throw away the seeds;they germinate quite easy and are a decorative plant for inside the house,and outside as well in a warm climate.The leaves are used to make tea and,like the article wrote,to eliminate fluoride from the body.Now my decorative roomplant is in danger of being eaten ;-))

      • L November 24, 2018 at 11:42 am Reply

        Eating two brazil nuts, rich in selenium, also helps with the fluoride. But it appears that tamarind has other beneifts

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 12:02 pm

          The articles I found are a bit confusing;one talks about a tea from the leaves but others,including one op WebM,only talk about the fruitpulp,and extracts from the fruit.And since I love Tamarind limonade,my choice is made ;-)) It’s all in the fruit!

        • L November 24, 2018 at 12:05 pm

          that’s great. hard to find here in the US which is why had ordered the tea online

    • Mike Wallbridge November 24, 2018 at 10:05 am Reply

      Thanks for your replies and links. Here’s some research below given to me which suggest you don’t need much of the fruit (10g per day) to have a major impact. That’s what the herbalist suggest I take. https://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11840184/reload=0. It strikes me that it’s a much less risky route than dosing oneself with iodine too. And it’s very cheap even if it’s hard to find. The herbalist gave me 200g of dried Tamarind and told me it could be found on Amazon. I checked and on Amazon UK you can get 4kg for £10!!!

    • L November 24, 2018 at 11:14 am Reply

      I remember coming across tamarind when I was searching for treatments especially for digestive issues and nerve issues. The problem was trying to find it. I can’t remember, but I think I ended up getting some tamarind tea online. Can’t recall if I benefitted from it, but it certainly looks like a good addition to whatever you are doing.

  29. Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 3:39 am Reply

    The study was done with Tamarind leaves,but the article also mentions the health promoting abilities of the fruit. The discussion after the article is quite interesting and funny :-)) Ik hope the Tamarind tea also works on dislexia ;-))

    • Mike Wallbridge November 25, 2018 at 2:19 am Reply

      I’m reposting this because I think I put it in the wrong place.

      Thanks for your replies and links. Here’s some research below given to me which suggest you don’t need much of the fruit (10g per day) to have a major impact. That’s what the herbalist suggest I take. https://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11840184/reload=0. It strikes me that it’s a much less risky route than dosing oneself with iodine too. And it’s very cheap even if it’s hard to find. The herbalist gave me 200g of dried Tamarind and told me it could be found on Amazon. I checked and on Amazon UK you can get 4kg for £10!!!

  30. Dee November 24, 2018 at 8:40 am Reply

    I live here in CA and was prescribed cipro in June 17 despite the FDA warnings. After I had my reaction my Doc said he prescribes it all the time for UTIs and other infections in over a 20 year practice and had not seen a patient with a reaction like mine. Another words it was “rare” so hand out the meds! In fact he said to me later “what am I going to give you for a UTI if you can’t have Cipro?”!! He thought he was being funny but as you can imagine it wasn’t funny to me! He believed me that I had a reaction but because I am so rare I know he still hands it out. I really liked my Doc but I rarely see him now as I can’t trust him. I have found another Doc to see that is far more knowledgeable. It sure is a travesty how uneducated and ignorant these Docs are to the strength of FQs and to save them for life saving infections. I know they give them out to wipe out an infection “quickly” and effectively as my Doc would say but they have been informed not to. So frustrating and irritating that they ignore these warnings because in their “own” experience these side effects are rare. I guess they know more then the scientific studies!!! The only thing that will actually solve this problem is to ban these meds except in hospitals to save lives.

    • Barbara Arnold November 24, 2018 at 9:51 am Reply

      Really sorry Dee your Doctor is so ignorant. ‘Rare’ is another word that gets me going. These Doc’s don’t connect the dots. Prime example is me. I didn’t find out what happened to me until 7 months later. Times that with the hundreds of thousands of people whose symptoms don’t show up until weeks later, or those like me who don’t connect the dots and never find out and are diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Or all those whose Doctors do not report the side effects. Aaaaaaaaaarg on and on

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 9:58 am Reply

      Actually the adverse reactions are not so rare at all,but because most of the severe reactions come days,months or even years after FQ use both doctors and patients see no connection between the FQ’s and the adverse reactions.Most of the knowledge about these reactions is mainly known in Floxie groups because we recognise those reactions as being from the FQ we used when we hear or read about the connection.Problem is the fact that so many doctors denie these reactions as being real and connected wit FQ’s in the first place.Nor do they report them.

    • L November 24, 2018 at 11:41 am Reply

      I am guessing that there HAVE been other patients of his who reacted, but no one ever linked it to the cipro.

    • Bob November 24, 2018 at 12:07 pm Reply

      Are you getting homeopathic treatments from Dr. Mueller?

    • Andrea November 25, 2018 at 9:15 am Reply

      Hey Dee, let me tell you something. Of course it’s just my opinion, but I thought quite a lot about it. First point, doctors prescribe FQ all the time. That’s true. They even admit it. Not everyone who takes FQs have a reaction. This is also true. But many times the reaction happens weeks, sometimes months after the treatment. Docotrs who prescribe this kind of drugs are the least informed about the side effects. People who knows about the side effects, at least the most noticible ones, are : rheumatologist, physical therapist and sometimes even pharmacists. You know why? They’re the ones who try to help with the mess that those other doctors creates. It’s no coincidence that the only doctor who spoke so strognly against FQ at the EMA hearing, is, indeed, an orthopeadic surgeon.
      I live in a small town. In almost 2 years, the only people who knew something about FQ damage where the ones who did the first x-ray to my ankles and an orthopeadic, who only knew about the tendond damage A few months ago, I received a phone call from a physioterapist I’ve seen sometimes earlier, after I took the FQ. He told me that he was treating another patient, with the same side effects as mine, after taking the same drug I took….These are not so rare side effects. It is rare that doctors know something about it. Expecially when they are the ones who do the damage and then refuse to admit their faults.

      • L November 25, 2018 at 10:56 am Reply

        have to disagree about the pharmacist. mine should have known that there was a black box warning for cipro and prednisone….and said nothing. (and here in ca they are required to o a consult for a new RX…didn’t do that either

    • Madge hirsch November 25, 2018 at 9:44 am Reply

      You should sue him.

      • L November 25, 2018 at 10:59 am Reply

        statute of limitations here in CA is one year from when the drug was first given OR when the connection was made between the injury being caused by the drug

  31. Dee November 24, 2018 at 1:05 pm Reply

    Bob. I’m getting homeopathic treatment from Mr Mueller. I started getting treatment a couple of weeks after getting floxed so have had treatment now for a year in a half. Did you end up going back to him for more treatment? How are you doing now?? I hope you are doing better little by little which seems like that is how this recovery pace goes….like a snail!!

  32. Attsy November 24, 2018 at 3:17 pm Reply

    I am new here. I have been floxed for 6 months now and still not doing well. In June I was prescribed Ofloxacin for kidney infection by my new doctor. After I asked about side effects he told me that these antibiotics are pretty mild and I can even go to work with them (although I had fever and kidney infection). I believed him. I felt sick just after 1st pill, I was told not to stop otherwise the infection would go worse. After 6 pills my left kidney almost failed, I was in enormous pain, I was bleeding and had a long lasting diarrhea. I was taken to the ER that day.
    I went back to my doctor after few days just to talk and told him what happened. He turned angry and started to make fun from me like “You googled the symptoms and you are imagining pain”, “Cipro and Ofloxacin are my best antibiotics, I prescribed them twice to everyone here and no one has every complained”. He called me a hypochondriac and that I was just wasting his time.
    I am still in pain, lost around 10 kgs, can digest only rice and potatoes, sometimes boiled chicken, my joints hurt, I have diarrhea. Now I have a new symptoms toothache, nerve pain, anxiety and brain fog.
    I am happy I found your side which is encouraging but I honestly from time to time think, I won’t be able to hold this. I am now in a process of finding a new doctor. It’s very hard because that doctor is a big specialist here and everyone likes him. I will have to find a doctor in a completely new city, which makes it much harder.
    Doctors don’t know much about these atbs here and think that they make no harm to people so I can’t even talk about it.
    After I reported the pills, people from our local health community made a statement for the doctors on the website, that these pills should be used only if all the other antibiotics fail, because they are very strong and dangerous. My now ex doctor said he has no time to read such a nonsense :/.
    Just wanted to thank you for the website where I can find information, otherwise I would be completely lost.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2018 at 4:48 pm Reply

      Hi Attsy,welcome,here.Sorry to hear about your situation,and your terrible experiences with your new doctor.A specialist he might be,but not in ethics,that’s for sure!

      First advise of me,or anyone else in this group,is probably:

      Take a good magnesiumsupplement.Magnesium citrate will do,but the newer forms,like Magnesium Bisglycinate (chelated form) are even better (higher uptake).

      Take a good probioticum.Spore-probiotica are great because the spores pass the stomach (-acid) unharmed while the traditional probiotica do not.A pré-bioticum like inulin is cheap and helps the probioticim settle in the guts;in fact inuline is the preferable food for the gutflora,and the probiotica.This might help with the diarrhea.which is the first step in regaining your health.In fact,doctors should advise this with every AB you take because AB’s kill of most of the gutflora,and the importance of these bacteria,with which we live in a symbiose,is only recently researched and found of enormous importance for our health,body AND mind.

      Ik hope that,with help of the other floxies,you’ll find your way back to better health;most of us have learned the hard way not to trust the doctors of any help in this process.Good luck!

    • L November 24, 2018 at 4:55 pm Reply

      FIrst, Henk gave good advise. You might also want to avoid fluoride, eat a couple brazil nuts a day to help with the fluoride issue. Also avoid ALL steroiods and NSAIDs.

      I get so angry when I hear about doctors saying they won’t take a damn minute to read the info on these toxins. Such arrogance! They think they know everything. I also had doctors say “oh, so you consulted dr google?” So snarky. If I hadn’t, I probably would not be here today.

      Lisa also posted a page to read for those new to this. IT is here. https://floxiehope.com/2015/10/12/im-floxed-now-what/

    • Attsy November 25, 2018 at 6:12 am Reply

      Hi Henk and L,
      thank you a lot for your reply and recommendations. I took today magnesium supplement, I am now taking some B vitamins recommended by my neurologist for the nerve pain. I will also look for spore probiotica.

      I am also very surprised and disappointed how some doctors behave :(. I see I am not the only one who has similar experience. I will never understand it.

      Next to the diarrhea I am also celiac with lactose intolerant, have low thyroid and have heart disease, so it makes it harder with the food.
      I was thinking for some while whether I should go for colonoscopy (because I have almost constant diarrhea), I am very worried it might hurt me – the preparation and the process doesn’t seems to me save in my condition, but I am also worried that something more serious is in my stomach. Do you have some experience with this? Is it better to keep the diet and wait and rather don’t irritate the colon?

      Anyway thank you a lot for you replies and help, I appreciate it!

      • Mike Wallbridge November 25, 2018 at 7:16 am Reply

        Hi Attsy, A colonoscopy might not be a bad idea for you and it is not a difficult or uncomfortable procedure and you will likely be sedated anyway. The fear of the procedure is far worse than the thing itself. Since they inflate the colon to see better you may come away with gas as I did but that soon goes. You need to find a more sympathetic doctor who will take your symptoms seriously and refer you for one but don’t worry what it will be like.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2018 at 7:38 am Reply

        Hi Attsy,if you’re living in the EU,I found a good and cheap webshop for both the Magn,Bisgl. and the spore probiotics.They got an english and a dutch website.:


        Your heart problems mmay be (partially) caused by a magnesium defficiency. Do a web search for Carolyn Dean,and for Dr. Mark Sircus for more info on magnesium.

        A colonoscopy is VERY RISKY: damaged and even ruptured guts happen quite often.And more: I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your guts;it’s the damaged gutflora that’s causing the diarrea.I had diarrea/loose stools for 3 years after my first AB course,in 2004.Tried every pré- and probiotic I could find,and much more.Only Colloïdal Silver (home made) helpt a bit,and was the cheapest I tried.Then I found out about the Beck Protocol and the Magnetic Pulser (home made,cost me +/- € 30) fixed it in not much more than 2 weeks.

        Another thing I forgot to mention is Tamarind. Mike Wallbridge wrote about it a few days ago and a quick search on the web conforms the info he gave.Tamarind,only 10 grams a day,helps eleminate fluoride from the body.The link,Mike gave,isn’t a good article;there’s better info to find.That article suggests the researchers used the leaves of the Tamarind,but the documentation on the research tells it’s the fruit pulp what was used.It’s cheap,you can find it in every toko (asian shop),and it’s great taste! It’s sold as a block of pressed pulp,both with and without the pits/seeds.Those seeds give lovely plants and according with what I found on the web you can use those for making a health tea.

        But for floxies,of course,the fact that it eliminates fluoride from the body is the most interresting aart of the story.And,as L. wrote: avoid everything containing fluoride !! I had a relapse,twice,after drinking just one cup of tea,the first time it was from drinking Pu Erh tea,which is known to be low in fluoride. But even that small amount of fluoride was enough to cause a relapse.

        • Attsy November 25, 2018 at 11:57 am

          Henk, thank you, I was able to find the same product on our czech website and also I can buy tamarind here, so I will definitely do it today.
          I am also trying to elimiate fluorid, don’t drink floride water, toothpaste, I have been checking everything for the past 2 months. It also took me a while to recognize this is fluorid related.

      • Madge hirsch November 25, 2018 at 9:57 am Reply

        The preparation is the worst part of the colonoscopy. This also ( according to the surgeon who did my bowel surgery) strips out the microbiome so puts off the time for the gut to heal. I have had 3 and every time my upper digestion which is normally ok has been affected with acid reflux and lots of burping and bloating. This has lasted 2/3 months before gradually clearing up.

      • L November 25, 2018 at 10:26 am Reply

        yeah, that’s a tough call. was supposed to have a colonoscopy, but having had one before I really wanted to avoid it. I did the home test kit but it came back positive, which it will do if you even have hemorrhoids. So I went ahead and had the colonoscopy. The prep is awful…worse that the procedure. Came back negative. Not sure what to tell you on that. I don’t think I will be having another one. do you have an integrative md you are working with? I would try to find someone integrative to help you through this

        • Attsy November 25, 2018 at 12:00 pm

          Yes the preparation is the part I am worried the most, because I have pain and diarrhea after painkillers or even soya milk or orange juice. That’s why I don’t know how I would be able to stand to drink Fortrans :/.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2018 at 12:07 pm

          Do I understand well:is the colonoscopy only for the diarrea,in your case?

        • Attsy November 25, 2018 at 12:16 pm

          It was supposed to be done because of my neglected celiac dissease and the blood in my stool before I was floxed. But I felt nowhere as bad as I feel now.

    • Andrea November 25, 2018 at 9:23 am Reply

      So sorry for you Attsy. Where do you live? If I was you, I’d sue the fuck out of that doctor! Sorry, but after reading your post I’m just so mad. If you live in Europe, there’re now proofs that these AB are indeed very dangerous. I wrote your kidney almost failed, so I think the damge done by the FQ is visible, from a medical visit. If I was you I’d find a good lawyer. I couldn’t do much in this regard, because every exam or test I’ve done, is perfectly fine. That was the thing that refreined me from sueing the doctor who poisoned me. This is of course, it’s just my opinion.

      • L November 25, 2018 at 10:57 am Reply

        ‘m with you. Sadly, I think the only way this will all end is if more people sue.

      • Attsy November 25, 2018 at 11:54 am Reply

        Hello Andrea,
        I am also very angry, it took more than 10 years to be diagnosed with celiac and now when I had some relief, finally I knew why I have so many problems I was floxed and the problems are now far worse plus I got some more.
        I wrote complain but I just got the statement that these antibiotics are dangerous and should be only used if necessary. My doctor didn’t even want to read it. He told me that the problem was my kidney (and this would happen anyway – but I disagree) not the antibiotics because he has never had anyone with reaction so far (which is very strange to me, maybe these people do have problems but don’t know it is related to these atbs?). By the way the ER doctors also didn’t link the problem with the antibiotics. It was actually my mum a few days later, she opened the drug information and it was inside. I was stupid I believed my doctor and didn’t read it by myself.
        I unfortunately had to leave my job I was not able to work at all. Now I work only for 20 hours per month just to be able to pay my medical insurance.
        I am from the Czech Rep., it’s part of EU and yes we have also the warning for these antibiotics!!!!
        The truth is that you can have reaction even to ibuprofen and I thought that the right thing is to inform your doctor but I was so wrong.
        I will write another complain…..I still wonder why they don’t take off these atbs or at least limit the usage?

        • Andrea November 25, 2018 at 1:55 pm

          Attsy. I don’t know your condition before the FQ exposure. I don’t really konw all the details, but I think you should really analyze the situation, and if you think your doctor did something wrong, you should talk to a good lawyer and see what you can do. That’s just what I would do of course. But these dumb doctors are getting more and more arrogant these days. I’m not saying the FQ caused your kidney to almost fail, but you wrote the doc said that it was a very safe cure, wich is not true, of course. So, again, if you think he did something wrong, it’s your wright to get justice. Now, that’s easier said than done. Take care.

        • Attsy November 25, 2018 at 2:29 pm

          Hi Andrea, thanks. I did, analised. I was not in really good state before but these antibiotics made it even worse, worsened the situation. I would like to do it, but you know it’s really hard to do something like this.

    • Attsy November 25, 2018 at 2:49 pm Reply

      Just talked to my friend who works in a medical field, she also doesn’t believe in being floxed and shared the same idea that these antibiotics are mild and without side effects.
      This is very sad.

      • L November 25, 2018 at 3:20 pm Reply

        Grrrrrrrrrrr. When there is so much information out there. Tell her to research fluoroquinolone associated disability. It’s like saying “I don’t believe the earth is round.”

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 26, 2018 at 2:41 am

          No;it’s like saying: “I don’t WANT to believe the earth is round” The reaction of many doctors is,in fact: “I don’t want to hear a word about “my” medicines.

        • L November 26, 2018 at 8:57 am

          yes…and what is so sad is that I think many originally go into medicine to truly help people. then they are corrupted/brainwashed by big pharma/ama/western med school crap

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 27, 2018 at 4:11 am

          Well,today an article by Dr.Mercola,about the ignorance,and arrogance of science,and how they put us all in danger,for money,power,and their moment of fame.But óne of them feels ashamed about his mistakes and come’s out with a book. Although this is not the useuel floxie stuff,I think it’s very important to read.Explains how things like Cipro (and Vioxx,DDT,etc)can do so much damage before being banned:


        • L November 27, 2018 at 11:15 am

          yeah I read that earlier this morning. (I get his emails). It is just mind boggling how our health is attacked on so many front by industry. There’s big pharma, there is (like this article states) the big Ag /Monsanto/ bayer crap. There is big oil and big coal (getting littler, no thanks to our prez) destroying the air we breathe. Then there are all the chemical manufacturers that help poison land, air, water. Just think what an incredible place this world would be without greed destroying it. I am an advocate and I try to do my part. I show up at council meetings, write letters, sign petitions, etc. It’s up to all of us.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 27, 2018 at 11:50 am

          I’ve read that there are over 300.000 different chemicals today,and about 120.000 that we are in contact with,almost on a daily base.Only a handfull of these are tested on safety,and testing combinations of all those chemicals,and their interactions (E.G. in the human body) is never done,and,because of the endless number of combinations,impossible.We are all guinea pigs,and we got nowhere to go;even on the North- and Southpole part of these chemicals are found in ice and snowsamples.Alchemists gone crazy….!!!!!

        • L November 27, 2018 at 12:09 pm

          It’s all very sad. Such destruction, all for money.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 27, 2018 at 11:52 am

          Almost forgot to mention these chemicals,in our body,react with other chemicals (like medicines) as well.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 27, 2018 at 4:35 am

          Well,this is the reply from the firm,accused in the book.Mind they write that they “have a deep respect for the environment, and a commitment to help feed the world’s growing population by finding better ways to grow safe and abundant food. ”

          So,genetic engeneering is nót about creating monopolies on food,is not about making farmers dependent on their seeds,and poisons,is not about trying to patent every foodsource in the world,or,medicines,or even knowledge?

          Today bio-growing technics have evolved so much that their harvest are as big,or even bigger than those of GE-engeneered plants.And while the GE-engeneered plants might give a bigger harvest during the first few years they starve the ground,which gets poisoned as well,by Roundup,etc.,and after a fwe years those grounds cannot produce enough food to be lucrative anymore.The earth has died and turned into a wasteland.

          Read here about what this company brings to their defence:


          Of course,they don’t lie.Why should they ;-))

        • L November 27, 2018 at 11:21 am

          Ugh. Extensively tested. And those tests are bought and paid for by the very company seeking to profit…just like so many other “scientific tests.” Studies that use cherry-picked information to get the desired results. That is how we got stuck with fluoride. (It was one of several NATURALLY OCURRING minerals found in a town in Texas with low rate of cavities.) So they ignored the other minerals, focused on the fluoride which again was in a natural state, and then started allowing the aluminum industry to dump their waste which was TA DA! fluoride.

          And the really big lie about gmos is that they were going to save the world from starvation. Again, more cherry picked information. http://www.justlabelit.org/do-gmo-crops-really-have-higher-yields/

          And “philanthropist” Bill Gates is in deep with Monsanto. So much for his philanthropy.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 27, 2018 at 11:43 am

          They didn’t just ignore other minarals.They also ignorded food,sugar and other sweet stuff,dental hygiene,among other possible causes of tooth decay.The only thing the focussed on was Fluoride.And today the tell us tooth decay is lower in the western society,thanks to Fluoride,but forget to tell us that decay has gone down in other places of the world just as much….without Fluoride.

          And today there was a message on the television that tooth decay among children,here,in NL,has actually rissen since the last few years.Their conclusion: too much sugar and not enough teeth brushing (they didnt dare to mention the fluoride but it’s quite difficult,here,to find fluoride-free toothpaste),so most people use the fluoridated paste).Luckily,after just a few years of wtaer-fluoridation,sinds 1973 our water isn’t fluoridated anymore.That rise was highest among the children of people with a lower education,so,I guess those with a higher education are more likely to know about the dangers of Fluoride,and know where to buy fluoride-free toothpaste.

          I,myself,have hardly used the fluoridated ones.When I couldn’t find it in the shops I used a mix of sea salt and olive oil;cleans well,and the oil prevents food from sticking to your teeth for the first hours after the brushing.Just the taste might be something to get used to,for some people.

      • Andrea November 25, 2018 at 3:28 pm Reply

        I konw what you mean Attsy.
        I had a mild urological problem after a surgery I had back in 2015. It bothered me for more than a year, then, when I finally went to the doctor who prescribed me the FQ, I was hoping to find a remedy, instead I just went into a way bigger disaster, and it’s interesting to know that after a couple of weeks, my urological problems worsened immensely. I spoke to many floxies, here and in person, and many of them developed similar issues in that regard (chronic pelvic pain, truobles controlling the bladder and so on). Not a coincidence, if you ask me.
        PS did you mentioned to your friend, about the new restriction applied to FQ after the EMA hearing. You should talk to her about it. Let’s see what she has to say. Too many people in the medical community grossly underestimate drugs side effects. FQ’s are just an example. A lot of people, family, friends etc, have been supportive with me, many others in the other hand, didn’t believed me at all. They said I was exagerating, it was probably something I already had…and the meanest comments came as always from people who where involved in the medicla field.

      • Daniela November 25, 2018 at 7:36 pm Reply

        Hi Attsy,
        My Chinese doctor recommends making a tea of three slices of fresh ginger and 1 jujube (dried Chinese red date) for diarrhea. You can also eat a cooked potato left in the refrigerator overnight for prebiotics. Avoid dairy and other starches, because it’s not just wheat gluten that can be irritating you.

        Personally I would not risk a colonoscopy. You know your symptoms and you need to take care of your colon, not make it worse!

  33. Darko pet November 25, 2018 at 12:57 am Reply

    I am interested to find out if anyone has tried Ozone Therapy. I read somewhere that it can boost immune system and improve symptoms of Fluoroquinolones side effects

    • Barbara Arnold November 25, 2018 at 1:32 am Reply

      Darko pet…..Hi, yes I have had ozone autohemotherapy and found it really helpful. It helps heal the mitochondria, helps with peripheral neuropathy, energy etc. The important thing is to get it from NP or Doctors who are experienced in this therapy. I had it in a local private hospital by a Doctor who had been doing it for 20 years. I initially had 10 sessions and felt a good improvement. Unfortunately later on I had a fall and compressed my spine which set me back. However when I healed I went back and had another 10 sessions which again helped me. I occasionally go for top ups even now to boost my energy levels. It is not a cure but it did help me. Also we are all different . Hope this helps.

      • Darko pet November 25, 2018 at 1:36 am Reply

        Thank Barbara, I assume that this was done in USA, I am currently researching for a treatment in Uk

        • Barbara November 25, 2018 at 2:24 am

          No, it was done in Spain. I am an ex pat. Good luck

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2018 at 7:57 am Reply

      The only experience I’ve had with ozone is from ozonated water (part of the Beck Protocol). It gives me extra energy,right after drinking it,and it helps against Herxheimer symptoms.Mediverse (Germany) sold me their own;cheap chinese,with Mediverse sticker on it) ozonater but it was money,thrown away,and now it’s KAPUTT. Hope to buy the Sota Ozonator,next month.It’s the cheapest and safest way to put extra oxygen in your body,after all.Just DON’T BREATH IT!

  34. Darko pet November 25, 2018 at 2:30 am Reply

    Thanks Barbara.

    I have been looking into a number of places but they mainly appear to be beauty clinics not necessarily official private clinics. Thank you again for taking your time to respond.

    • Barbara Arnold November 25, 2018 at 2:54 am Reply

      De nada your welcome Darko Pet. I believe there is a Naturopathic clinic in Crowthorne, Berkshire, but I don’t know anything about it. I would steer clear of beauty clinics if it were me. Hope you find a decent one.

  35. Mike Wallbridge November 25, 2018 at 7:24 am Reply

    I’m taking 600mg of Magnesium Glycinate each today together with probably about 500mg Magnesium Oil rubbed on my body before I go to bed. At present, my pain and symptoms over most of my body are minimal but I’m most concerned about my eyes; my sight prescription has changed and I experience soreness that I think comes from the surrounding muscles/ligaments etc. I read somewhere though I can’t remember now where that most magnesium supplements don’t have any effect above the neckline. If that’s true, I wonder how best to treat the effects of toxicity on my eyes and whether there are specific magnesium supplements that would help the brain, eyes etc better than most. Any advice, please?

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2018 at 7:49 am Reply

      Somewhere in the past I’ve read an article (might be on Dr.Mercola’s website) on Magnesium Malate.It should pass the blood/brain barrier better than other magn. supplements. But,as far as I know,there’s little,or non, connection between magn. defficiency and the floxie eye-problems.

      • Mike Wallbridge November 25, 2018 at 7:59 am Reply

        I’ve just found it myself on Mercola’s website. He refers to L-Theonate as passing the blood/brain barrier better than other supplements. I’m not sure what you mean by the last sentence. If the problems are in the eye’s tendons/ligaments then it is due to the depletion of magnesium from them, isn’t it? My question still stands. How best to treat floxie eye problems. I’m using the tincture that the herbalist gave me for my tendons and ligaments which I think is Solomon’s Seal. But what else can I do to help the eyes?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2018 at 8:17 am

          There are two possible causes for the eye-damage by Cipro and other FQ”s: collagen damage and nerve damage.


          No magnesium defficiency involved,here,as far as I know,or can find.

        • L November 25, 2018 at 10:52 am

          Uh… there they go with that word “rare” again. Yes, the reason many of us get floaters, some get retinal detachment, and so on is that these poisons destroy connection tissue, which includes the vitreous. One thing they do not mention in this article, that I mentioned somewhere else, is that they also destroy mitochondria. The eye is no exception . https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3652603/

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2018 at 11:56 am

          It damages (permanently?) the mitochondrial ánd the nucleius DNA as well.

        • L November 25, 2018 at 10:43 am

          I had/have a ton of eye issues…not the tendon-like issues you mention, but tons of floaters (vitreal detachment), blurred vision, reduced vision, extreme sensitivity to light and fluoriescent lighting. and then diagnosed with early cataracts and early macular degeneration a month out from the cipro. One of the things they recommend for early mac degeneration is called AREDs2 which is a mix of vitamins and things like lutein and zeanthenin . I am on those. Also good for eyes –r alpha lipoic acid, bilberry.

          One thing that seems to affect all of us in all areas is damage to the mitochondria, so you might want to look at supplements that hep with that, again R-ALA, ubiquinol, acetyl-l carnitine, Mag L threonate, benfotiamine and d-ribose. Gotta say, I am so sick of supplements. Before all this I only took calcium. Now it’s the only one I don’t take.

          Speaking of mito damage…I am reading a book called The End of Alzheimers. A doctor put together a protocol to prevent and even treat Alzheimer’s…and I bring this up, because macular degeneration is also likely to be caused by mitochondrial damage, at least in some. I believe that is my case since it was only diagnosed right after the Cipro. So I suspect the information given in this book could likely help all of us.

      • Anna November 25, 2018 at 1:05 pm Reply

        No, this is not the case. I have seen specialists at Bascom Palmer, and they agree my orbital tendons and muscle were affected. The eye itself was untouched by Cipro. Cipro attacks tendons/ muscle in any part of the body. Many people have orbital issues and trochleitis from Cipro. I would assume that the reason for developing tendinitis in the orbital area is due to the same reason one would develop it in the ankles. Is that only because of Magnesium depletion or some other sinister form of attack? I don’t know – but Fleuroquionlones do cause orbital pain due to trochleitis. Along with imflammation due to an immune type response. People with autoimmune disorders can get swollen eyelids (lower/upper) and the swelling for auto immune related issues is also commonly treated with steroid , as is Trochleitis.

        • Anna November 25, 2018 at 1:08 pm

          Oh, and I will add, my 80 year old grandmother was floxed and it caused an immediate decline in her vision, she was diagnosed with Mac.De. I think older patients are more likely to get Mac-De or retinal detachment form Cipro.

    • Anna November 25, 2018 at 8:09 am Reply

      I had horrible orbital aching, and aching behind the eye, after Cipro. My vision was blurry for one week after an extreme onset of the trochleitis. I tried Burdock Root, Turmeric with Black Pepper, Bromelain, and Tart Cherry supplements to help relieve inflammation caused by the tendinitis in the orbital area, but supplements did not help. The last thing I will try is Solomon’s Seal, I’ll mention here if it works. If you indeed have trochleitis they will try to get you take steroids, or get the typical steroid injection in the top eye lid. You can google “trochleitis steroid injection” to see how they do it. I’s rather let time heal , and stay away from this method.

      • L November 25, 2018 at 10:47 am Reply

        I totally agree re staying away from the steroids. I am certain that is why my body was so devastated by the cipro…I was on prednisone at the time. I also was just talking with a new integrative doctor and he was telling me just how damaging steroids are. Like if you get a steroid injection for a sports injury. It literally destroys all the tissue it comes in contact with, as well as stem cells.

      • Mike Wallbridge November 26, 2018 at 2:08 am Reply

        Thanks, Anna for your input confirming that magnesium depletion is still the culprit when it comes to tendons and ligaments in the eye. My herbalist has given me Solomon’s Seal to take and says it will help the mitochondria and the ligaments and tendons to heal. I might start taking L-Threonate too but I’m taking so many supplements already and just can’t afford to add any more to the list.

        • Anna November 26, 2018 at 7:36 am

          Hey Mike, I really do not know if it is Mag. depletion causing the orbital area problem, and doctors don’t know either. All we know, of course, is that Cipro did “something” to the muscle/tendon in the orbit. I take a ton of Magnesium and it does not help. Honestly, I think after 30 days of someone is supplementing with Mag, they’ve corrected a deficiency and whatever problems you are dealing with after that are because of something else. It is possible that tendons/muscle are swelling because of an immune response. People with immune disorders will often get swollen tissue around the eyes as an immune response.

  36. Attsy November 27, 2018 at 2:10 pm Reply

    Hi guys,
    Yesterday I thought about your words. I wrote detailed complain to the hospital management. The doctor read it and called my mum (I don’t understand why my mum). He told her he is willing to help me but I HAVE TO TAKE ANOTHER COURSE OF THESE ANTIBOTICS! He will probably deny everything I complained about and I will be back where I was. No one believes me, only my mum. But still I have nothing to lose.
    Unfortunately I am not really sure what to do, because I can barely eat, how long can I live like this? I am trying to do everything suggested but I am losing hope. I am extremely weak. Other doctors would take me maybe in 6 months – they have so many patients (I mean the better doctors). Hospital won’t take me as I don’t have recommendation. It’s said my country has one of the best health care system (and also free) in the Europe but probably not for me. I usually pay for everything in the clinics and it’s not cheap (you only don’t pay in the hospitals) + the mandatory health insurance. Plus no one knows how dangerous are these antibiotics here.

    • Attsy November 27, 2018 at 2:28 pm Reply

      I mean “main hospital” won’t take me, this one is something like hospital clinic…..

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 27, 2018 at 3:07 pm Reply

      Maybe you could put the EMA hearing on FQ’s on one or more DVD’s and give them to doctors,objective enough to view it (Firefox and Opera browsers have addon’s to download Youtube clips),or you could send them a mail with the question to view the hearing,and put tis link in your mail to them:

      You tell your doctor you’re very damaged from FQ’s and he wants to help you if you’re willing to,first,take another course of this poison? Have not enough of these “***” on my keybord to tell you what I think of such person :-((

    • L November 27, 2018 at 3:42 pm Reply

      OMG, NO! Why on earth would he want you to continue taking something that has already harmed you?

    • Attsy November 27, 2018 at 4:06 pm Reply

      I am now also scared that if I make it somehow to the main hospital and they find I have still the infection in my urine, they might put these antibiotics into IV, as it seems these ATBS are number one here :/.
      Thank you for the video, I will look into it.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 27, 2018 at 4:35 pm Reply

        Attsy,have you ever tested your urine yourself? Here,in NL,I buy teststrips that are tested by a consumer association (4 different brands) and not only did the brand I use prove to be the best of those four brands,but “my” brand was also compared to the brand most doctors use and both are of equal quality. And they are cheap:I pay € 8,95 for 3 strips (and some shipping costs;that’s why I buy 3 sets at a time).

        A friend of mine,about two month ago,went to the doctor with pain in his underbelly,and problems urinating;could hardly get a few drops out at a time.The doctor diagnosed a bladderinfection an prescribed him….Cipro.Two weeks went by and no improvement.The doctor had,in the meantime,given him a catheter,but,in the end descided to send him to an internist,who diagnosed his prostate is swolen and there is (nor was) a bladder infection. I think there actually was one,caused by the swolen prostate which obstructed his urine,so,he couldn’t empty his bladder.

        Now he is scheduled for an operation to take away a part of his prostate.He is waiting for almost 3 weeks now but still not heard when the operation is gonna take place.I’ve offered him a magnetic pulser (one,I build to lend to people who want to try before buying one,or build one themselves) and adviced him to supplement zinc,but he refused.He is a person that,when ill,goes to a doctor and swallow whatever medicine he gets.Only things he selfmedicates are painkillers (and then he goes for the really strong,and risky ones);hasn’t even got a thermometer in the house to take his temperature.

        This gives you a good picture of “scientific medicine” in The Netherlands; not a bit better than shamans and bush doctors,but way more expensive (and probably,more dangerous).

      • Andrea November 27, 2018 at 4:57 pm Reply

        Attsy, are you sure the doctor told you to take another course of FQ? That would be the last thing I would do!
        Before taking a FQ pill again, I’d rather take a bullet! I’m not joking. Are the doctors you talking to, aware about the recent restriciton these drugs have now?
        Anyway, besides these side effects (that really seems to be FQ damage) what was your health situation before taking the drug? Why did go to the doctor in the first place?

      • L November 27, 2018 at 8:21 pm Reply

        Attsy, are there any integrative MDs or Naturopaths where you live? What kind of infection is it? UTI?

    • Madge hirsch November 27, 2018 at 5:31 pm Reply

      Do you mean he wants you to take more fluoroquinolones?!!! He maybe wants to damage you so much you will shut up and go away. Do not do it. You risk even more severe damage.

    • Attsy November 28, 2018 at 5:17 am Reply

      Hi guys,
      thank you for your replies.
      Yes he meant Cipro….so another kind of these antibiotics. He called me today and just told me I destroyed his life……he refused to help me (although I am in pretty bad state) and told me to go find someone else. Then he proceed that these atbs are mild and the state I am in is no way caused by these antibiotics. I actually hoped that this hospital will at least force him or someone from there to help me, only thing I achieved was that I am a liar. I even asked “so you are going to let me suffer like this?” and the answer was go find someone else.
      My state I was in before? I have Mitral Valve Prolapse which is congenital – it has never given me any problem until now, I have never felt my heart before. I was sick twice between age 0-19. Then I started to have rash all around my body, hair falling and strange stomach bloating, then paradontosis appeared, got alot of gum inflammation. I asked a few doctors about it but they told me it was just stress. From time to time I had blood in my stool. I again told this but since then I have that I am hypochondriac in my papers…..Then I developed some “super bug” which didn’t go away even after 16 courses of ATBS (god knows if I didnt take cipro before). I was extremely tired from this but after some time the bug went to inactive state. I was quite fine for like 2 years. Then I woke up in the morning and had bad back pain – only on left side, like someone kicked me. I had hard time peeing and the pee had really strange odor. I went to the doctor but was told it was nothing to be worried about. After three months I went to work and suddenly I collapsed, I fall into coma and could not wake up for like 30 minutes, I was taken to ER they took the simple blood test gave me some IV and sent me home (no EKG, no EEG….). I started to have syncopes I went to the cardiologist he told me it was just from stress, went to endocrinologist she told me it was just from stress – no proper tests, blood or urine. So went to psychiatrist and told her about my stomach issues, pain, vomiting, blood and syncopes and was told this was just depression. After another 6 months of having something like stomach flu every month I went to the apotheke asking for the strong pain killers and the lady asked me what is the problem? And I told her and she actually told me I might have some food intolerance (gave me a home test which tested positive) so if I go to the doctor I should let him know about it. So I went to this doctor, he was angry that I suggested what might be wrong then he took the blood tests and urine test, I had high vitamin B and D deficiency, alot of leucocytes in my urine and blood, very high gluten and lactose intolerance in my blood, elevated sugar etc…..Then he gave me these ATBS and then the horror started. Every symptom I had is now elevated like 10 times. I had one time per month stomach colic before, now I have it 2-3 times per week. I even feel like my heart is racing it’s waking me up and I have night sweats. My joints hurt, before I walked 10 kms per day and exercise 30 min. Now I am tired just after 15 minutes of walking. Undiagnosed celiac and these pills destroyed my life completely.

      • Barbara November 28, 2018 at 7:17 am Reply

        I find the arrogance and ignorance of your so called Doctor astounding. He is an absolute disgrace and is NEGLIGENT IN HIS DUTY OF CARE. He should be struck off. Keep a record of every thing he says and does. He also should not have called your Mother as that is a break of confidentiality. I would certainly write and complain again giving them an update of his latest insults. I would also add the latest recommendations from the EMA regarding fluroquinolone’s. This is law and he is also neglecting in his duty by not following these recommendations.
        However your first priority is YOU so I would start by the results of your tests and suppliment what you need. I would also go completely gluten, sugar and dairy free. Then I would research well your symptoms seperately and look for a natural answer to them. If you possibly can, find an ND who can help you with this. I am not a Doctor Attsy, but I do know you have been poisoned and that there is enough clinical evidence on this site to prove it.
        If I were you I would have nothing to do with this idiot again except to report him .I hope you can find a new Decent Doctor who will listen to you and treat you with the respect you deserve. Also I hope you have family or friends that can support you in this.

        • L November 28, 2018 at 11:06 am

          YES YES YES to everything you said!

        • Attsy November 29, 2018 at 12:47 pm

          Hi Barbara, thank you a lot, I will buy the home test and I also have now appointment with urologist in January, I want to know if I really have kidney infection or no.
          Honestly I have only my mum and my grandma only they believe me. Especially my mum because she was the one who found it.

      • Barbara November 28, 2018 at 7:22 am Reply

        Also Attsy, Henks suggestion is a good idea to test your own urine as this needs further investigation

        • Dee November 28, 2018 at 10:02 am

          Attesy. I ditto what Barbara said!! Your Doctor is a baffoon that needs to have a serious consequence for his actions and especially his rude and disrespectful behavior!! Was he the one that gave you “16” rounds of antibiotics!!?? I wouldn’t be surprised if many of those were some type of FQs that started harming you a long time ago? Have you looked back on your records to see what antibiotics were given to you? They may have been causing you problems all along and this last dose of cipro put you over the top. Meanwhile I also agree with Barbara and start taking care of yourself with a clean diet and good supplements. Stay the heck away from the medical Doctors. See a naturopath or functional Doc if you need more guidance on diet and supplements you need

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 28, 2018 at 9:34 am Reply

        Well,it’s not only,like Barbara wrote,a break of confidentiality,but he also broke the european privacy rules by phoning your mother and talking to her about you..And what did he mean by saying you “destroyed his life”? First of all he is the one who is destroying yóúr live,not the other way around.And second,by doing that,and by all the rediculous and insulting things he said he,himself,gives you the possibility to,indeed,be able to destroy his life (and his job).Something is terribly wrong with this “doctor”.

        • L November 28, 2018 at 11:10 am

          Yes, I found that quit ironic that he claims HIS life was destroyed. What a self-centered, arrogant, ignorant “doctor.”

      • L November 28, 2018 at 11:04 am Reply

        OH Attsy, that is horrific! Bad enough these toxins destroy so much, and make us so miserable, but then to be thrown under the bus by the people that are supposed to help us is just unconscionable. I want to go to this place, make a big scene and then slam down the late Dr Jay Cohen’s book “How we CAn Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The worst Medication Disaster in US History.” DO THESE PEOPLE NOT READ???? There is just SO much information out there now.

        I don’t know where you are located, but you really need to find an integrative doctor or ND or even an acupuncturist. These tools should have their licenses revoked.

      • Attsy November 29, 2018 at 12:49 pm Reply

        thank you all guys!! You are so kind, I admire how much strength you all have, I wish I could fight this better

  37. Cipropoisoned November 27, 2018 at 4:19 pm Reply

    Veteran floxie here. 7 years coming Jan. Still continue to have symptoms. Have cycles every several months. My recent cycle began with severe night sweats similar to my original floxing. Now, I feel fatigued, GI is off the wall, nerve pains all over like I am being bitten by bees, ankle pains, Achilles tendon insertion site pains… Sleep disorder is back and so is the anxiety, not to the same degree as the past, but strong enough to see my life change from routine. I have come to the conclusion that I will never be back to normal health and that what is going on is really an autoimmune illness that was triggered by CIPRO. Mitochondrial damage, Magnesium depletion, oxidative stress, etc. sound reasonable, but they don’t explain the chronic, cyclic nature of this poisoning. I am highly certain that what was triggered was Lupus-like Illness. It’s the only illness that makes medical sense.

    • Andrea November 27, 2018 at 4:49 pm Reply

      Hi Cipropoisoned;
      I don’t know about the FQ triggering an autoimmune disease you could already have. Many, many floxies experience cycling. The problem with FQ damage is that mimic an autoimmune disease. Exceptionally healhty people can be completely distroyed by this poison. Why are you thinking that in your case the FQ triggered something you already have?

      • Cipropoisoned November 27, 2018 at 6:00 pm Reply

        Hi, I was in perfect health before taking CIPRO (Only visits to doctors was for vaccinations, no history of ever taking antibiotics, pain killers, etc.). Within taking a few pills, I developed ankle pains, and knowing that tendinopathy was a possible side effect, I stopped taking the CIPRO immediately. Within a few hours of the 4th pill I could barely walk, had severe headaches, dry mouth, mental fog and difficulty focusing mentally. One of the strangest symptoms I had was mental fatigue. I just couldn’t stay focused in high level of thinking matters. My brain would just feel tired and unable to continue processing. Anyhow, that first night, I developed night sweats which I never had, my calf muscles began twitching and burning…the next morning I noticed GI issues that I never had….within 2 months, I was having severe anxiety (I never had any psych. illnesses before), sever insomnia( never had any problems with sleeping)…6 months later I was having more joint pains…within 1 year, I had constant Tinnitus that became worse when I went to bed, burning legs and face…then there was some improvement, but never resolution, and the night sweats recurred, and the cycle began again. for about 2 years it was horrible. From year 2-3, I felt things were improving and I could do much, much more, but at around the beginning of the third year, I noticed recurrence and just as much joint pains as I had 3 years earlier. This pain took many months to decrease, and then it all began again, not to the same degree of disability, but it was enough to want to kick the guy who developed CIPRO. After this cycle, it was a gradual cyclic improvement… fast forward to May of 2018, the night sweats, HA, brain fog, muscle twitches, GI symptoms ( the stool was so loose that I had to always be strategically close a restroom) recurred. After 6 years the symptoms were almost as intense as the original floxing. Over the ensuing next months the mix of symptoms began to recur at some degree. Now, I have sleep issues, always wake up at 4 AM like an alarm clock, fall back asleep; I eat and run to the bathroom, have burning sensations below my ankles, face and hands and dispersed pin prick pains all over as I am being bittern by bees, and my muscles twitch randomly.

        I know I am not helping anyone with my story, and I apologize for that. However, the truth must be told so that those investigating this poisoning could see how horrible and chronic the poisoning can be.

  38. Dee November 27, 2018 at 4:59 pm Reply

    Cipropoisoned. Did you ever feel you recovered? You say you have cycles every several months. So do you have months of feeling recovered and normal??

    • Cipropoisoned November 27, 2018 at 6:04 pm Reply

      Hi Dee, I have never felt normal sense I took CIPRO. The symptoms vary in intensity from mild to severe, but I haven’t felt a minute back to my normal health before I was poisoned. Now, I have heard and even seen people who have returned to normal health, so there is that possibility, I am just not one of those fortunate people.

      • Joanne. November 28, 2018 at 6:46 am Reply

        Hi Cipropoisoned,
        I was wondering if take any pharmaceuticals that might prolonging your healing? Or if you take any supplements to help your recovery?

        • Cipropoisoned November 28, 2018 at 9:55 am

          Hi, not at all. I don’t take anything. I am suspicious that there might be some Fluoroquinolones in the meat I eat. I have been a bit liberal about eating steaks, etc.

          “Two fluoroquinolone drugs are approved for use in food-producing animals in the U.S.: danofloxacin and enrofloxacin…”


        • L November 28, 2018 at 11:13 am

          yes. While I have loosened up a bit on what I eat, one thing I do religiously abide by is eating meats that are certified antibiotic-free. While other additives I may occasionally get might not be good, I figure antibiotics are just one I won’t accept now.

  39. Henk Noordhuizen November 28, 2018 at 10:41 am Reply

    Here an article about fluoride in medicines,and the horror it causes:


  40. Henk Noordhuizen November 28, 2018 at 10:49 am Reply

    And an article with a short,and not at all complete list of medicines containing fluoride:


    I noted Paroxitine,another favorit medicine of my doctor,is also on this list.She must be a real fluoride enthousiast,ánd fluoride expert.Wanted to prescribe me this dangerous anti depressiva off-list for “sleeping a bit better” both times she tried,I refused.

    Cipro,Flecainide Acetate and Paroxitine;the only three medicines,prescribed to me in the last 10 years contain fluoride!

    • L November 28, 2018 at 11:21 am Reply

      I think I was so damaged because I was on prednisone at the time, but ALSO taking asthma inhalers that contain both fluoride and steroids. Pretty much all of them do (except rescue inhalers like Ventolin.) Interesting that some antidepressants are on there too. I wonder how many who were floxed and didn’t know it, were put on these for depression, only to make them worse.

      • Madge hirsch November 28, 2018 at 3:02 pm Reply

        Symbicort only has fluoride in the propellant not the actual drug so that is a small improvement. It is possible there is fluoride in the Ventolin propellant

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 28, 2018 at 3:42 pm

          I think that,because most,if not all of the Floxies are extremely sensitive after being floxed it’s very important to make a list of al known medicines and foods that have fluoride in it. I,myself,had a relaps two times after another from just one cup of tea;can’t imagine what would happen if I swallowed a bigger dose of fluoride somehow.Something I really don’t WANT to know! I’ve found two lists,very short ones,so far and put them on this webside.Please help to make this list more complete! Thank you,in advance.

          P.s. I found Tamarind,last monday.The first two Toko’s were closed on monday,so I drove to one,on the other side of town.A very cosy one;hardly enough room for walking,and full of stuff.Went right to the place where my favorite tamarind candy’s were when I visited that shop a few years ago,and they were still there.Bought some packages of another preparetion as well;those have not only some added sugar but also a little salt in them but no seeds (the other have a seed in half of the candies,and some ssugar on the outside)

          And I bought two packages of tamarind paste,one with,and one without seeds.When this Tamarind really helps your body get rid of fluoride (and I found some documents which suggest it does),,then this must be the cheapest,and most welcome medicine I had in times.Safe,cheap,and very tasty! I wish I knew a method of measuring,or controlling if fluoride really leaves my body;not yet found a (home-)test for that.

        • L November 28, 2018 at 4:06 pm

          well that sucks, since it is the last asthma med left I can use, that doesn’t have fluoride as one of the main ingredients. Guess I just have to keep sucking down those brazil nuts

  41. Anne Leenders November 28, 2018 at 2:58 pm Reply

    Does anybody have experience with detoxing with sauna or ion footbaths?
    Any idea if it helps release the toxins?

    • Bob January 3, 2019 at 3:17 pm Reply

      I had several “Aqua Chi” footbaths and believe they work.

  42. Anne Leenders November 28, 2018 at 3:01 pm Reply

    Any thoughts on possible connection between heavy metals and being floxed?

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 28, 2018 at 3:54 pm Reply

      Well;heavy metals won’t help,that’s for sure. I’m convinced that fluoride poisoning makes you extremely sensitive to every other poison,and,because your immunity is damaged,probably to every pathogen as well.

      Your name sounds dutch? I knew someone here,in Bergen op Zoom,with the same family name,when I was young(er) :-))

      • Anne Leenders November 28, 2018 at 4:01 pm Reply

        Thank you , yes my husband is Dutch.. Are you living in the Netherlands?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 28, 2018 at 4:12 pm

          Yes,I live in Bergen op Zoom,in the south-west of Holland,or,The Netherlands.

    • L November 28, 2018 at 3:57 pm Reply

      well they certainly would seem to hinder wellness. Once I was improved a fair amount, at the suggestion of my ND, I had a holistic DDS remove all mercury fillings. I think ANY thing that puts a strain on your body’s ability to function properly would necessarily be bad. Additionally, we know that flqs take their toll on our mitochondria, which are found through the body. Heavy metals do the same. (DItto nerve damage)

      • Anne Leenders November 28, 2018 at 4:58 pm Reply

        Thanks, did you detox after the amalgam filling removal in a certain way?

        • L November 28, 2018 at 5:24 pm

          nothing that I was aware of. I just felt better psychologically knowing they were out. One less toxin to worry about.

      • Anne Leenders November 29, 2018 at 6:26 am Reply

        Thanks, how many did you have removed and did you have them already for a long time? Do you think the body detoxes mercury slowly on its own?

        • L November 29, 2018 at 10:53 am

          I had four removed, two in each of two sittings. I had had one for about 10 years and the other three for decades. Your body will not detox it on its own, because it is always there. There was a video that showed how every time you chew, a bit of mercury vapor is released. Others tried to debunk the video, but all their claims were refuted. I believe it is somewhere in the Dr Mercola library. Check out his site.

    • Bob January 3, 2019 at 3:15 pm Reply

      Getting floxed could very well be related to a sluggish liver and heavy metals would definitely impair liver and nerve function.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 3, 2019 at 4:08 pm Reply

        There is a writing here,a while ago,from a female pharmacologist.She was floxed,after myears of distributing FQ’s,and did research on what,in FQ’s,did cause (most of) the symptoms.She discovered that the most obvious cause is the fluoride;this is known to cause most,if not every known symptom of being floxed.

        I noticed that many symptoms,like the nerve damage,are identical to the symptoms of,e.g.,girls,and boys being damaged by the HPV- and other vaxines.They,too,often have severe nerve pains.Fluoride is an extremely aggresive (nerve) toxin,and that makes you wonder why it is added to more and more medicines,about 20% of them,and this number will probably keep on growing.Hard,to NOT think of a conspiracy,here,I guess.

        I’ve refused to use toothpaste with fluoride in it from the beginning,and when I couldn’t find fluoride free toothpaste,I used a sea salt/olive oil mix,but at last “they” got me,with Cipro.And it will probably not take long befo0re most important orthodox medicines will be fluoride-poisoned,while natural medicines will be ever harder to find,thanks to the Farmaffia (and the “people” behind it).I’m glad I got interested in natural medicine when 15-16 years old (Boyscouts),and still have this interest,and quite a few books on medical herbs.

        • L January 3, 2019 at 4:24 pm

          Fluoride is poison, and I too have removed it from my life. But I think it is just one of the reasons flqs are so damaging. (It helps it breech the blood/brain barrier.) However many, many pharmaceuticals have fluoride in them, and none have the power to destroy like flqs do.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 4, 2019 at 2:04 am

          The problem with FQ’s,and with some of the other “fluoride strenghened” medicines is that,under not yet fully known circumstances,the fluoride breaks free and wrecks havoc in every cell of the body.Damages mitochondria,and DNA of mitochondria ánd cell nucleus.One of the other medicines with this problem is Flecainide Acetaat,and that’s the reason that my Dr. should nót have prescribed the Cipro,but she did,after telling me that she’d just received a message not to do so.She phoned around for 1/2 hour and then told me that it was worth the risk.Her gamble,my risk,and the rest is history.

          It’s said that getting floxed is rare,and it’s a fact that most of the time those FQ’s don’t give much trouble (ask Don Mowers;he’s used FQ’s dozens of times before he got floxed).But when they do,the damage is severe,and part of it (semi?) permanent.The fluoride not only helps the quinolones to pass the blood/brain barrier,but,by damaging the mitochondria it,ánd most of the poisons in your body (including the quino’s) at the time,can enter every cell in your body as well.

          The damaged mitochondria also explain why floxiies are so extremely sensitive to poisons;the mitochondria do have a protective function (among other tasks) to keep poisons out of the cells,and,because of them being damaged this protection is no longer working properly.

        • L January 4, 2019 at 10:38 am

          It makes me furious that they keep using the word rare. People read that and think “oh it’s only injured a few people,” when in fact MILLIONS of lives have been destroyed and hundreded of thousands have actually died from these poisons.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 4, 2019 at 11:40 am

          Here you’ll find some more accurate numbers:


          These AB’s are on the market since the early sixties,and in those > 55 years there were an anormous amount of prescriptions handed out (hard to find hard numbers on that).

          I know what you mean to say,and I’m totally with you on thet part;EVERY victim,and EVERY person that died by these AB’s is one too many !!!

        • L January 4, 2019 at 12:41 pm

          Yes, Dr Charles Bennett extrapolated the FDAs own figures in coming up with the “over 300,000” deaths and millions of injuries. However, those numbers are several years old, and even at the time I think they were very under-representative. The extrapolation involves multiplying the actual reported figures by ten, since only about one in ten actually report. HOWEVER, I think that applies primarily to those injured in the US. I think if you include everyone injured by these toxins world-wide, reporting would be even less than one in ten.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 4, 2019 at 1:40 pm

          In his 2015 report he mentions > 150.000 adverse reactions.If 10 times underreported this would be 1 1/2 million.He mentioned 2400 reported death;this could (x 10) be 24.000.So your number of death is not 10 times,but about 120 times extrapolated.Quite a difference.Remember;even this factor 10 x is not a proven fact but a presumtion.

          His numbers were from 1-11-1997 to 28-7-2015;here is the official report:


        • L January 4, 2019 at 2:32 pm

          My numbers are correct, it was the percentage that is wrong. Should have been one percent. (straight from the horse’s mouth) “The FDA gets about one percent of all reports,” said Bennett, who argues if you take the 3,000 deaths already reported, the actual number of deaths is closer to 300,000.” https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/investigations/levaquin-fda-fails-to-disclose-additional-serious-side-effects-of-antibiotic-linked-to-deaths

  43. Anne Leenders November 28, 2018 at 4:03 pm Reply

    Thank you, do you have experience with sauna or ion foot baths to detox heavy metals?

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 28, 2018 at 4:22 pm Reply

      Many floxies complain about heavy sweatting,and I,myself,start sweating as soon as I start doing some light work,or ride my bike.So,I think that the body tries to use transpiration to get rid of the fluoride,which means that a sauna might help.It’s a known way to detox,but it depends on,what kind of toxin’s are involved.I have no experience with ion foot bath but I remember that somebody was talking about that, al while ago,on floxiehope.I hope that somebody reads your question and has answers.

      • Anne Leenders November 28, 2018 at 4:57 pm Reply

        Thanks Henk, do you think most floxies have heavy metal issues?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 29, 2018 at 2:57 am

          I cann’t answer that question,Anna;haven’t read anything yet about a connection.But,because many heavy metals are neuro-toxic,and because fluoride is neurotoxic,there’s no doubt that for Floxies it’s very important to stay away from heavy metals as far as possible.An advise I should give to healthy people as well.

    • Anne Leenders November 29, 2018 at 6:21 am Reply

      Henk did you every have the silver, mercury fillings in your teeth? Or have them removed?

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 29, 2018 at 7:12 am Reply

        I had several;when I was young(-er :-)) I had a dentist that,”preventively” filled holes he made himself ( filled holes where there were non,untill he himself made them).and my last dentist removed several of those,and let me swallow one of those fillings.His reaction: “Don’t worry,it will come out the natural way”.Checked my stool for days,even with my metaldetector,but didn’t find it.Still I have 2 amalgam filligs left.

        • Anne Leenders November 29, 2018 at 7:24 am

          are you taking anything for heavy metals or foods that you eat?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 29, 2018 at 8:23 am

          No,I am just trying to eat as healthy as possible,with my small budget,and I use Tamtind for Fluoride detox,ánd because it’s deliscious (the candy,ánd,in summer,the limonade :-))

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 29, 2018 at 8:25 am

          Sorry for the typo; I ment: Tamarind.

        • Anne Leenders November 29, 2018 at 8:33 am

          Henk what is tamarind? is it helping you? Where can you get that?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 29, 2018 at 8:50 am



          About a week ago somebody,here,mentioned it;got it from his naturopath,if I remember well.The pulp of the fruit is used for kooking,and making candy’s and limonade.

  44. Dee November 29, 2018 at 7:35 am Reply

    Anne, chlorella is supposed to help remove metals. You have to take it everyday and build up.

    • Anne Leenders November 29, 2018 at 7:37 am Reply

      How much do you take Henk?

    • Bob January 3, 2019 at 3:10 pm Reply

      Anthony Williams book “Medical Medium” has excellent advice on detoxing metals.

  45. Dee November 29, 2018 at 7:46 am Reply

    Dee. Message is from me “Dee”. I was told to start with 1 very small tab then increase every 3-4 days by one tab. My homeopathic Doc wants me up to 30 a day. I don’t even come close to that. Anyway…according to him it helps detox metal Mercury. Maybe why he suggest 30 tabs it is the brand he recommends? “BioPure” Chlorella. The tabs are very small.

    • Anne Leenders November 29, 2018 at 8:06 am Reply

      Thanks Dee, did you ever try chelation therapy with other chelators. And I wonder how you were tested for heavy metals? I had hair analysis but not sure how accurate that is?

  46. Dee November 29, 2018 at 9:50 am Reply

    Anne, I had Genova nutritional testing done before I was floxed. The results said I was moderate in metals. I did not do any kind of treatment. I am terrible at taking my clorella as it is so much. To be honest metal toxicity has been the least of my worries since being floxed a year in a half ago although I’m sure it would help your healing to detox metals. Just something I chose not to do for now.

  47. Dee November 29, 2018 at 9:58 am Reply

    L. I thought. I remember you saying that you took the product “Restore”?? If so, what was your experience with it? I just started taking it and I’ve read some people have issues with it and to start slow if you have digestive issues like I do with leaky gut, IBS etc. How did you take it and did you have good results? I also read not to take it with probiotics?? Which I have been doing not knowing that!! I’ve been taking 1 teaspoon twice a day but thinking I should cut back to make sure I don’t react. I did ok with it for awhile but this morning woke up with a horrible attack of diarrhea and had taken a diffeeeny new Probiotic the last couple of days. Probably that was a mistake??!!

    • L November 29, 2018 at 11:07 am Reply

      My ND put it on my list of things to take. I was also taking probiotics, but probably at differenr times of day, just by coincidence. I had heard nothing (nor did he say anything ) about not taking them together. I had no issues with it. I was taking so many things I really can’t say what it did or didn’t do. I am not sure why there would be an issue. IT is a soil-derived mineral product. This gives a good description. (and I think sometimes we blame side effects on the wrong thing. Not saying that is necessarily the case…but really not sure why this would be an issue. http://www.integratedhealth.com/supplements/probiotics-enzymes-foods/restore-for-gut-health-8oz.html

  48. Darko pet November 29, 2018 at 10:59 am Reply

    Has anyone tried IV vitamin boost? I am suffering from very bad twitching and fatigue so decided to invest into an IV today. Unfortunately, I have seen no improvement in energy levels at all.

    Does anyone have any ideas of the best way to get energy levels back up. Many thanks

    • L November 29, 2018 at 11:10 am Reply

      I have had over 100 IVs. You might want to try a Myers IV. IT was what they started me on. It has mag, C, B vitamins. Do a search on Myers IV. There is a lot of information out there.

      • Darko pet November 29, 2018 at 11:47 am Reply

        Thanks L. Maybe I need further boosts as I can not see any improvement. Did you suffer with muscle twitches and if so, how long did it take to settle?

        • L November 29, 2018 at 12:25 pm

          That was one of the few, of my over 30 side effects, that I did not have. Well, I did have a couple fingers that spasmed out of control. It was really freaky to watch. I couldn’t MAKE them move the way they were moving if I consciously tried to. That was one of the first side effects to go. I was getting several different IVs, as I have posted here before, and I was so damaged, it is hard to say which IV helped which side effect, but Myers is a great basic one for a number of benefits.

  49. Dee November 29, 2018 at 12:32 pm Reply

    L. Thanks for the info on Restore. I have taken it for a month and seemed like it helped my urgent bathroom in the morning get somewhat better. I don’t know why I had such a bad bout of diarrhea this morning? I will not take the new probiotics I took the last couple of days and will start up the Restore in a couple of days at lower dose and no probiotics. The article you attached did suggest taking it with no prebiotic, probiotics or digestive enzymes for it to do a better job. Thanks for the info! As you know this recovery is trial and error and definetly a roller coaster ride!!! I am a year in a half out now and “slowly” getting better. Didn’t you say you felt mostly recovered at a year in a half or was it longer???

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