Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




22,294 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Andrea January 7, 2019 at 5:05 pm Reply

    Anyway, we’re all different, if it worked for you, that’s good 🙂

  2. Flox January 8, 2019 at 12:28 am Reply

    Is there anyone healing his depression and brainfog with healing his leaky gut ?

    • Attsy January 9, 2019 at 2:16 pm Reply

      Hi Flox, that’s me. I am depressed and have bad diarrhea, have to follow very strict diet. If I do mistake I can be sure to have problems. The diet include eating sweet potatoes, rice, chicken meat (only boiled), normal potatoes, sometimes boiled apple, banana, boiled eggs.
      I don’t know how to deal with depression, the only thing I do is that I force myself to “be in a good mood and not to think about it”, I use L-tyrosine which seems to elevate my mood a bit. I spend a lot of time alone, I do have people who talk to me regularly but I don’t talk about my problems with them anymore. I do understand that they don’t understand how something could damage your life to this extent, I would probably not understand it either.
      Honestly I feel like a walking poison :/. I could do so many things before and I have never appreciated them. Sometimes I think I deserve all of this, sometimes I am angry with myself.
      Now I am using magnesium again and hope it will get better.
      So how are you? How long have you been floxed?

      • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 2:32 pm Reply

        Ehi Attsy, just wanted to tell you that I can relate to everything you wrote. That’s very deep, and exaclty how I feel

      • Bob January 9, 2019 at 4:18 pm Reply

        Actually I can’t think of any reason you would not be depressed at this point. 500 mg of GABA may help your mood some. Also if you have bowel problems don’t take magnesium citrate, take another form. Your body is obviously trying to detox. I would try daily celery juice on an empty stomach in the morning and some liver helping foods like wild blueberries and garlic, maybe some aloe vera for your stomach.

        • Attsy January 17, 2019 at 2:24 pm

          Hi Bob, thanks for your tip! I had to google GABA, never heard about it before. Will try it after I stop with my bladder treatment. Thanks again :).

      • Flox January 10, 2019 at 10:58 am Reply

        Hi Attsy,
        Iam 20 months out but still have cns problems like brainfog, depression, dizzyness and alot of vision problems

        • Attsy January 17, 2019 at 2:22 pm

          Flox, not a good new for me, I am now 7 months and also have bad depression but can’t take antidepressants at all (I took them for a few years before because of my suspected IBS – but maybe I have IBS, not sure with this – but no help for my stomach with these pills, it was just worse and then I was addicted to benzos because no one warned me that I can’t take them for so long), that’s why I avoid all these psychiatric pills although would be happy to get some antidepressants with no side effects and good results.
          I am sorry you still have it 20 months after, is there anything you do with your depression??

        • L January 17, 2019 at 3:27 pm

          Just as well you cannot take antidepressants. Just more toxic overload. If you didn’t see my earlier post, do a search of turmeric (95% curcuminoids) for depression.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 4:35 am

          Attsy,did your doc give you antidepressivants for IBS? But,besides from mixing up things,he’s mentally oké? Oh,sorry,my mistake;it wasn’t an IBS;it was a SUSPECTED IBS.Science based medicin at it’s best: “I suspect”,”It might be..” and “let’s try this medicine,and when it doesn’t work, we”ll try another one”.

          The safest things for depression are:

          Magnesium.Probably the main cause of depression is a magnesium defficiency.Vit. B-complex is a second one to try.

          Cheer yourself up by humming,whistling,singing,just by doing things,you do when you’re in a good mood.Research has shown that,by doing this,your body starts producing the hormones that fit to a good mood.I use this method for many years,long before science discovered that it works,and it really does.

          Taking walks,preferably with good weather,and in a natural surrounding,but if that’s not possible any walk will help.Working in a garden,with your hands in the earth does great things as well.

          Close every day with thinking about the good and possitive things which happened that day.Depressed people fill their heads with negative thoughts and easily forget about the good things that happen.Sometimes these are only small things,but they can help to take the place of these black thoughts.It’s called cognitive therapy and it’s the only proven therapy psychiatry has.But they didn’t discover it themselves;it’s common knowledge;people knew this for many centuries (but they didn’t ask money for it ;-))

          Most people with IBS are over-sensitive for wheat,and/or other carbs.On the web there’s lot of info about this;search for “IBS diet” and “IBS regimen”;that might help you.

        • Virginia January 19, 2019 at 7:35 pm

          If it’s OK to ask, why can’t you take anti-depressants? I know Benzos are addictive, but SSRIs aren’t. I had to give up SSRIs last year because my endocrinologist suspected they were causing my mysterious bone fractures (3 in one year). I think her theory was true because it’s been 1 1/2 years, and no more fractures. I’ve had some close calls, with my foot twice feeling like another stress fracture, but MRI showed it didn’t actually break. For some bizarre reason, post-menopausal women who’ve been on SSRIs a long time can get mysterious fractures with no trauma. Not even my psychiatrist knew this, but the studies look pretty solid. It’s a rare, but nasty side effect which has been terrible for my mood. SSRIs really did help me, and beyond some early side effects (which went away), I responded well to them. I am now trying Turmeric (95% curcuminoids) which I’ve read can work as well as SSRIs. I’m also trying 5-HTP, a natural anti-depressant. I’ve had to go off both for months due to intractable stomach pain, but hope to return to them soon as I think they were helping some, though not as well as SSRIs. I think there is a place for prescription anti-depressants, even though I would always give natural remedies a fair chance first.

      • Attsy January 22, 2019 at 9:34 am Reply

        Hi Virginia and Henk,
        just to put it in time order. It was 12 years ago when I decided to visit psychiatrist by my own will, not because chemical imbalance but because I went through some trauma. I didn’t want talk therapy, I was pretty active but also introverted so I wanted some quick solution. I heard people tolerate antidepressants well so I wanted them. The first type I took for one year, I thought they would make me happy but I was surprised how they worked, I slept around 12 – 14 hours every day, so I became completely passive person but it helped me to forget the incident or made it weaker. Then I got off them without problems, unfortunately then it all started, I started to have constipation and diarrhea, hair loss and rash around my body. It was new for me so I asked the doctor and was told it was maybe because of stress, so visited psychiatrist again and got another antidepressant and then another type and then another type, for unknown reason they stopped working for me altogether (maybe because I was not depressed anymore) but didn’t help with my stomach problems (actually made it far worse). My immune system became very weak every time I was on antidepressants, I caught high fever and infection every month. After like 3-4 years I stopped with them. I was also diagnosed with Hashimoto during that time.
        And again my stomach problems still persisted, so I was given benzos (for my iritable stomach to calm down) and became addicted. When I realized I am addicted I went cold turkey and went through crazy withdrawal and suffered from syncopes. Another psychiatrist tried to help me with this and prescribed me some pure serotonin antidepressants but I got serotonin syndrome after it. I stopped with all benzos and antidepressants altogether. Unfortunately my stomach problems got worse and worse. So I finally decided to visit gastroenterologist (and this is the doctor who gave me Ofloxin for kidney infection I didn’t have). I came to his office and brought home test from drugstore which showed positive for gluten (my brother actually has some food allergies – wheat and lactose- so I thought I would maybe let myself tested). He tested me and yes I am celiac. Unfortunately he was more focused on my kidneys – for some unknown reason he thought I had horseshoe kidney and sand and some other things there, and he gave me two courses of antibiotics. I don’t want to mess with antidepressants anymore. Don’t want to hurt my stomach even more.
        That’s why I blame myself a lot, I could do things differently but now it’s too late.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 22, 2019 at 9:58 am

          Some antidepressivants,like Paroxitin/Paxil/Seroxat are known to cause severe problems in the intestines AFTER you stop using them;people even end up in hospital for this withdrawl symptoms..Why did your psych. decide to give you another one?And another one? Antidepressivants are known to NOT work in most (>99%) people,even the placebo-effect is more effective in tests for most anti-depr.’s. That is,before the company cherry-picks the data.

        • L January 22, 2019 at 10:11 am

          Attsy, please don’t blame yourself. We are taught to trust doctors, and to follow their order. Then on top of that, we have drug companies more concerned with profits than our health. I was on anti-depressants for years. Now I know they are no better than a placebo (published in prominent medical journal The BMJ, Denmark-based researcher Peter C. Gøtzsche contended that taking antidepressants could increase a person’s risk of dying prematurely, that the drugs do little for patients over a placebo) and the old selling point about depression being caused by a chemical imbalance has never actually been proven. I am angry about the effects that doctor’s “care” has had on my life. I took asthma inhalers for decades and was assured that since they went into the lungs directly, the steroids would not harm my bones. Then I was diagnosed in my 40s with osteopenia (step before osteoporosis). Now they admit, YES, then can. I am having major congestion issues that no one can figure out and one ENT says he thinks he could be due to a sinus “window” surgery I had a few decades ago. Guess what? They no longer do that surgery because of too many latent problems. Had I known about naturopathy, I would have gone that route years ago. But please, this is not something to blame yourself for. We trusted what we were told.

        • Attsy January 26, 2019 at 2:57 pm

          Hi Henk, just looked and I took these ADs with minimal positive effect: Sertraline, Citalopram, Escitalopram, Trazodone, Venlafaxine, Mirtazapine together with Benzos: Alprazolam and Bromazepam.

        • Attsy January 26, 2019 at 3:04 pm

          Hi L, sometimes the posts here I read make me really angry. But I visited another doctor who does not believe ATB could even irritate the bowel…….
          I am very sorry for what happened to you, life is hard even without these problems. I do not believe in AD anymore. Especially because they just give you AD and then you are on your own (or at least here).

        • L January 26, 2019 at 3:55 pm

          ATB? AD? and not sure who you posed the colonoscopy question to, but I had one with no problems. Just the usual awful prep, but no reaction to anything they gave m.

        • Attsy January 26, 2019 at 4:17 pm

          yes AD like antidepressants :D, sorry maybe it was confusing. I posted the colonoscopy question, thanks for your answer 🙂

        • L January 26, 2019 at 4:44 pm

          aha! got it

        • Attsy January 26, 2019 at 4:18 pm

          and the colonoscopy question was for anyone who went through it 🙂

      • Attsy January 26, 2019 at 3:11 pm Reply

        and again to Henk, doctors gave me different ADs because they didn’t work for my stomach problems, so they assumed another brand would bring me some relief. Just wanted to thank you for the nice post you wrote for me. I am trying to follow your advice and lighten up my day a bit :).

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 27, 2019 at 8:32 am

          They gave you all these psychiatric drugs for stomach problems? Makes me wonder: do these miracle drugs work for broken arms and legs as well?

          Well;they did work as expected: not at all.Nine different medications,none,that helped but all with their own risk of adverse reactions and possible long term damage.I think you were very lucky to go through all this without even more problems than you had before the psychiatrics “took care” of you.

          I’m amazed that,in orthodox medicine,nobody ever mentions magnesium and vitamine B-complex as the most logical way to start a treatment of depression and other mental problems.These problems are not caused by a “chemical disbalance” but,most of the time,by defficiencies (not patentable,nor lucrative).

          A good docu about the psychiatric industry is this one (if you don’t get to annoyed by the mixed in end time prophecies;those don’t belong to the original documentary).

          The beautiful thing is the web,and the thing called “community knowledge”.Without that we wouldn’d have known of the dangers of a fast growing list of “medicines”,nor would we have known of the power of natural medical solutions.And don’t get fooled: most of those “scientific based medicines” are,in fact,based on natural remedies,which are (poorly) copied by the Farmaffia,just for the purpose of patenting “their creation” and getting rich from our misery.But they simply can’t beat natural medicine,and a good attitude.A smile a day keeps the doctor away (an apple will do as well;research showes that it is as effective as statins,but doesn’t have the nasty adverse reactions).Nature rules!

    • L January 9, 2019 at 8:46 am Reply

      It is always so infuriating when the advise given is that one “should seek immediate medical care if they experience soreness or inflammation in muscles or tendons, and they should not exercise while the joints are affected. ” Too late! And then the doctors don’t know what the hell to do anyway. (And this quote was from someone associated with the FDA….ugh.) Disturbing to know the gut damage may e permanent.

      • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 2:37 pm Reply

        You’re right!
        If it wasn’t this tragical, I’d find it funny. Yeah right, stop immediately, then go to the doctor who just poisoned you, to listen to his nonsense..Jesus Chirst, the nerve of these fu***rs…

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2019 at 2:42 am

          I did go to my dr. and when I started telling her about the adverse reactions and that I stopped taking the poison after 2 days,and a total of 4 pills,she got angry,almost shouting at me that I should have taken the whole course (10 days,2 x 500 mg/day),and that she NEVER had any complaints about Cipro.And,of course,she never reported any side effects/adverse reactions.

          After I switched from another dr. to her and her partner in practice I told them about how the AB course wit Metronidazole and Amoxiciline went terribly wrong.They looked in my dossier and there was nothing in it about me,reacting badly to one,or both of these AB’s.They made a notation about it,to prohibit me from getting those AB’s in the future.Than,the female dr. prescribed me Cipro,two times.The first time,in 2010,I eventualy didn’t use it,and when she herd that she got angry (very professional,getting angry at a patient for his disobediance,right?),the second time,in 2016,I swallowed 4 pills,and here I am,at Floxiehope.

        • Andrea January 10, 2019 at 2:53 pm

          That’s disgusting Henk. The worst part is that, not only these morons poison us, but they have the audacity to say that it’s not true, or even our fault

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 4:23 am

          That was áfter I had to prove that het earthermometer was showing 1,2 degrees too low,and I did prove that in a convincing way,but two weeks later she tried to use this thermometer on me again.Than she phoned around for more than 1/2 hour because she had just received a letter,telling her that she should nót prescribe Cipro to somebody,already using Flecainide Acetate,and then decided to prescribe in anyway,lowering my Flecainide dose by 50 %;”That might work”.

          Well,it didn’t,and when I tried to tell her that,she reacted angry,like I told;”Never heard any complaint about Cipro”.Scared me of,like she probably did with others.She might have started as a good doc but,through the years,gotten more and more influenced by the Farmafia. She’s still quite caring,and putting a lot of work,helping her patients,and she’s nót a “five minutes per patient”kind of doc,but,in the meantime,she’s arrogant and stupid enough (and,probably,corrupt) to do enormous damage to her patients. And,from what I read her,and hear from people around me;that is the trend.What a world!

        • L January 11, 2019 at 8:45 am

          Reminds me of one of the 12 docs I saw. I went to this female doctor because a friend really liked her. The first time I went she seemed nice enough, and caring. In fact I ran into her at the grocery store…and this was near the beginning of my downward spiral, and told her about all the floaters and how my sense of smell was surreal and I was feeling very panicky. And on top of it, a pulmonologist was pressuring me into this radioactive lung scan. She said it would probably be ok if I waited a bit and that I would be fine. Well of course I got worse and the 2nd time I went to see her I was just a mess, head to toe, and anxiety through the roof. She assured me it couldn’t possibly all be from the cipro (and then wrote in her notes I discovered later rather snarky remarks about how could I possibly think just few pills that I took several weeks ago could cause so much damage.) Turns out she was in the same medical group as the doctor who gave me the cipro and steroids. They were at different addresses, so I didn’t make the connection. Dr Cohen, in his book, has a whole section about his dismay with non-believing doctors, and he even says that anyone who says that a drug can’t continue to do damage long after it is stopped has no knowledge of pharmacology and how it works. Needless to say, I never went back. (well I did go back months later to drop off some reading material for her.)

    • A.Coleman January 10, 2019 at 1:56 pm Reply

      I note that this article talks about aortic tears and dissections. This is where the new legal challenges to FQs are coming from now. I recently tried to join a class action suit and while I met all criteria they refused to include me because they were only focused on heart damage.

      When will enough be enough. If the FDA adds another black box warning for heart damage it will be up to 3 for FQs! This stuff should only be allowed in life threatening situations and should only be given in hospital settings. Shouldn’t even be in a non-hospital pharmacy.

      Personally I wouldn’t take it again even if I was dying.

      • L January 10, 2019 at 2:30 pm Reply

        Neither would I. There is nothing that could induce me to take one of these poisons, after the nightmarish torture I went through, and its continued effects on my life.

        RE the class action…those can take MANY years, and depending on how many are in the suit, the payment to actual defendants can end up being way below what they might have expected. If it is not past your statute of limitations (varies by state/country) I would encourage you to try to find a medical malpractice attorney (esp one specializing in pharmaceutical injuries).

  3. Henk Noordhuizen January 9, 2019 at 2:06 am Reply

    And here an article about research of ancient antibiotics,being mixtures of simple,natural ingredients.The researches tried one and where astonished about the efectivity,even against MRSA:


    The people who developed,and used those old recipies are,by “modern scientists and medics) considered to be quacks.I’s time to understand that those were real medics,and the modern medics are the real quack.

    • L January 9, 2019 at 9:30 am Reply

      In referring to the wine/garlic/leek combo it says “The mixture was to be stored in a brass vessel for at least nine days prior to use” It is fascinating how people discovered this would work as an antibiotic, or how that would be enhanced by the brass vessel, or how many days it would need to sit. Amazing.

  4. Attsy January 9, 2019 at 1:26 pm Reply

    Hi, so I went to urologist and you were all right, nothing is on ultrasound. So now I am following L advice how to cure UTI. So far so good.
    Would you think to undergo cystoscopy is a good idea or no? I still have feeling that something is wrong with my bladder or is it just the poison in the pills which is tricking me? Is there anyone who actually has some visible damage in bladder?

    • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 2:46 pm Reply

      Hi Attsy, I did three exams to see what’s wrong with my bladder. I did a cistoscopy, a Intravenous pyelogram or urogram and urodynamic testing. All these exams are not pleasant, at all. Expecially if you’re a man.But I did them anyway. Keep in mind that with this kind of testing there’s always a chance to get a UTI. The doctors, when I did the cistoscopy, wanted me to take antibiotics “for prevention”. Of course I said, forget about that! I started to take d mannose and cranberry juice everyday for a week prior to the exam, and also soem days later. Luckily, no infection.
      anyway, are you sure to have an UTI right now? have you tested posititve?

      • Attsy January 9, 2019 at 2:57 pm Reply

        Hi Andrea, thanks alot for answer. I am a woman and I read about the procedures so I am aware for the risk to get UTI. Actually I am waiting for the result, I don’t know if I have UTI but I decided to take D mannose, herbs and vitamin C as a prevention anyway and drinking cranberry juice right now :). It’s very possible I don’t have it anymore. I hope to take it as a prevention won’t hurt. Well it’s good to hear you didn’t have anything wrong with your bladder, it gives me some kind of relief to hear this!

        • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 3:36 pm

          Actually there’s a lot wrong with my bladder/urinary tract. The doctors aren’t quite sure (something new, right), but from the tests it looks like I have a urethral stricture and bladder neck that doesn’t “stretch” too well. This is causing some kind of urinary retention and my bladder gets too fool. I don’t want to undergo surgery, first because there’s a very good chance that my symptoms won’t improve with the surgery, ad also because the side effects are miserable. So I’m looking for an alternative method to at least give me a break from this misery. I don’t know how much the fluoroquinolone influenced my situation, but I’m quite sure it did some damage even in that department.
          Oh, sure enough, when I spoke to a a neurologist who is also specialized in urological pathologies (neuro-urologist) he said that there was 0 possibility that my symptoms where realated to the FQ. It was just all in my mind, and I was consuming too much liquid.
          Now that’s a Doctor!

        • Bob January 9, 2019 at 4:23 pm

          Doctor is an A**hole.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2019 at 2:49 am

          There are teststrips you can buy;those are not expensive.Mine are tested in a test with 4 brands,and along,they tested the teststrips dr.’s use.The ones I use proved to be the best,and of equel quality to the teststrips dr.’s use.These test for bacterial activity,blood particles and leukocytes.

      • Attsy January 9, 2019 at 4:16 pm Reply

        Ah Andrea, I am very sorry to hear that, I really hoped that you had it ok :(. Well I actually think your situation was caused at least a bit by these drugs, because they are making things worse. And yes that’s a not surprising that the doctors don’t think it might be related……Sorry Andrea, I really hope your situation would improve! Sending you hugs….

        • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 6:26 pm

          Yeah. I think too. For over a year and a half my urological symptoms were stady. After the FQ, things went downhill. I first developed frequent urination, and after a few months, I developed chronic pelvic pain too. I’m almost sure that all this is caused by some neurological/nerve damage from the FQ. I’ve read of many floxies that developed the same symptoms, even if they never experienced urological problems before.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 6:35 pm

          yes, I mentioned before that I did…and also Lisa I believe. I have read others too. Again, I think at least mine and perhaps others are from flq induced interstitial cystitis. And yeah, that would be the LAST time I saw that doctor! I just spent several months trying to get into seeing an Ear Nose Throat doctor (even though I have already seen one) just because I read on his curriculum vitae, that in addition to all his sterling western medicals creds, he has training in integrative medicine. It was harder than getting in college to see this guy, but I don’t want to go in and have yet another allopath disbelieve or ridicule me. IT was worth it. He read everything I brought in. He looked over all the natural treatments I had done, and nodded in agreement. Now I have to try a pharmaceutical, but he was very clear re no steroids, no fluoride. IT was well worth the trouble to get in to see him. They are few and far between.

        • Andrea January 10, 2019 at 3:55 pm

          L, not only I remember you and others on this website mentioning bladder problems, but also at the hearing, I spoke to at least 2 guys that developed issues in that are. Mine were probably pre existing, but after the FQ everything went downhill.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 4:14 pm

          You know I often think about how any ONE of these issues would be frustrating/depressing/life altering. Yet all of us are dealing with multiple issues. Day in and day out. And the powere that be are so lacking in concern and compassion it boggles the mind. If one of the execs at Bayer or J & J or the FDA, had to deal with ONE of our side effects, then maybe we might see some changes or some actual money spent on trying to figure out how to fix all the “collateral damage.” But they are probably too informed to take any of these poisons they peddle.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 4:47 am

          It’s beyond belief to see that,after the Softenon,and the Vioxx scandell,which both did less damage than the FQ’s,this “worst medication disaster in history” (Dr.Jay Cohen) the only reaction of health officails is: “We’ll put strickter advices on the box”. Easy to understand why this happened:with only advises,and nothing mandated or forbidden,it’s very difficalt,if not impossible,to sue a dr. for prescribing this poison for almost everything.Without first trying an other,safer AB.After my doc told me that she just received a letter to nót prescribe Cipro to patients on Flecainide,she,agai,got angry:”When things go on this way,it won’t take lang before I can’t prescribe any medicines anymore.

          And then she started phoning around for more than 1/2 hour to find backup for her marvelous idea to prescribe the Cipro anyway,lowering the dose of the Flecainide.Without considering for only one second to go for an other AB. Cipro,and the as evil Paroxitine (= Paxil,Xeroxat),are her absolute favorites.

        • L January 11, 2019 at 8:52 am

          That thinking is insane. Just prescribe less of it? How do these people make it through medical school? Every one knows you should not mix ammonium and bleach if you are cleaning (although I would use neither anymore). But using LESS of one, they still will produce toxic fumes.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 9:41 am

          In the period my magnesium defficiency was at it’s worst,me having cardiac arrythmia,several times a day,shortly before being brought to hospital by ambulance,two times in 2 weeks time,the wife of a good friend adviced me to THINK “I have enough magnesium in my body”. This would solve the problem.By the way;untill a month ago she was assistant of a naturopathic Dr.,specialized in helping children,answering the phonecalls,and,if necessary,giving first advices.

          I’ve seen this strange logic in people before,most of them female,and,years ago figured out what,exactly,caused this difference.Than,one day,I suddenly realized that men have an EXACT logic,while females have an ABSTRACT logic.Worst of all;I phoned my friend because,at that moment,I had one of the more severe attacks of this cardiac arrithmia’s,and hoped to get a usefull advise.But she answered the phone,and after her well meant advice I fellt even worse.But there mightl be a reason for this difference in logic,which I still have not been able to find.Some things in life still are a mystery for me.

          What suprised me most was the fact that my doc,not for a second,considered prescribing me another AB,knowing that the combination Cipro/Flecaïnide meant trouble.And later on reacted so angry because I stopped after 4 pills,untill I told her that another doctor adviced me to stop because of the adverse reactions.But still denied having ever heard of adverse reactions,caused by Cipro.These kind of Dr.’s are extremely dangerous!

    • Attsy January 14, 2019 at 2:06 am Reply

      Hi Guys, one more time from me…..my urine is clear after 18 months of struggling! The truth is that I am very very angry with the previous (ex) doctor, because when I gave him the sample last time (June 2017), he didn’t give me any clear instruction how to pee in the cup (I know I accidently touched in the cup), I also was like one day before my period and had cold. But I felt perfectly fine, I had no UTI problem.
      I am angry, I didn’t come to him with my UTI but with colon struggling, he was no urologist but gastroenterologist. Yet he told me I had chronic kidney disease (and put me on two atb), didn’t bother to send me to urologist and gave me the cursed antibiotics. This new doctor told me I don’t have any kidney disease. So if I continued going to the previous doctor, I am dead now, because he was forcing me to continue taking the atb and he diagnosed me incorrectly, also told me he can see sand in my kidney or something like this.
      He would kill me. I can’t believe it. Now I have mysterious bladder problems, which I have never had before.

      • Attsy January 14, 2019 at 2:06 am Reply

        sorry, June 2018

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 14, 2019 at 3:44 am Reply

        That doc has got sand in his eyes,and in his head as well.How do this kind of (dangerous!) idiots get a doctor’s license?

        • Attsy January 14, 2019 at 8:48 am

          Yes and he was a man, I believed him, I am stupid for believing him, I always had my doubt, but still followed his adivce….at least now I know, when something does not sound right to me to find another doctor or get second opinion at least.

      • L January 14, 2019 at 10:36 am Reply

        I think our collective anger at (past) doctors could power the world’s energy. It is just so preventable and so infuriating. The doctor who gave me the cipro along with prednisone—it was the FIRST time I ever saw him! I needed a doctor and chose him because of great on line reviews.

        Well glad you finally went to someone else. And many of us have had bladder issues post floxing, including urine retention, pain and pressure, increased frequency. The only thing that helped me was acupuncture (temporary relief when it was really bad—which at times felt like crushed glass inside me) and Chinese herbs that my acupuncturist mixed for me which helped longer term. Over the course of a couple years, I used those one and off maybe 3 or 4 times. I no longer (for now!) have pain, but still have a bit of a retention problem. I still believe that it is interstitial l cystitis brought on by the cipro.

        • Attsy January 17, 2019 at 2:18 pm

          yes L….I hope so.
          You are lucky that you found a doctor who was able to diagnose interstitial cystitis, but sadly there is no immediate cure. I have similar symptoms as you, I need to pee quite a lot, weird pressure, urine retention, I have never had it before but now it’s better. I am still not able to find a doctor who would believe floxin ATB could do the damage to this extent although they believe I am highly allergic and I finally found a person who studied dietology and she knows you can be badly poisoned by pills.
          I went to the homeopathic shop and one lady there helped with the herb mix (thanks for your tip) so let’s see if it works.

        • L January 17, 2019 at 3:26 pm

          that really gets me when they say you were allergic. Not allergic, poisoned. Not sure your herbalist will give you the same thing as TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) but I hope it helps.

      • Bob January 19, 2019 at 11:25 am Reply

        Sue the incompetent bastard.

  5. Doug January 9, 2019 at 4:13 pm Reply

    So sorry for you and everyone here affected. Re Depression, I had to get on an anti-depressant, it has certainly helped me cope with the problems.

    • L January 9, 2019 at 6:27 pm Reply

      Have to be careful with those as well. Many contain fluoride.

      I had been on antidepressants for decades and just wanted to stop (this was before cipro) and I had ready a study (which I have posted about here before) about how Turmeric (95% curcuminoids) is as effective as Prozac. Only lots of GOOD side effects. So I weaned off my then current antidepressant ( you don’t want to go off quickly…I tried once and got electrical zaps in my knees and head) and started on the turmeric….and never looked back.


      • Sheila January 9, 2019 at 8:37 pm Reply

        FYI Prozac is a fluoride compound. Fluoxetine.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 8:51 pm

          Also Paxil and some lesser known ones.

        • Virginia January 9, 2019 at 9:00 pm

          Do you know if Pristiq and Zoloft contain fluoride? Those were my main ones.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 9:06 pm

          Prozac, Luvox, Paxil, Gabren, Gabrene, Halogabide, Progabida, Progabide, Progabidum. (hopefully that is a complete list) http://slweb.org/ftrcfluorinatedpharm.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2019 at 5:04 am

          It’s a start;this website is still “in the making”,and more and more “medicines”get the fluoride poison added,most of them probably just because the original patent is at it’s end.The added fluoride is just for patent renewal.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 10:10 am

          yeah, it would be best to really research any individual drug you are taking. There are actually severally different sites I found that list drugs with fluoride, and some have ones others don’t.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 9:08 pm

          I was hoping that was complete, but on another site someone says he is taking Zoloft and it does have fluoride……may want to dig around a bit

        • Anna January 9, 2019 at 10:25 pm

          I apologize for jumping in on this thread and asking a random question, but I am having difficulty using key word search, and I noticed earlier someone mention septocain. Can someone please repeat for me which dental numbing agents are harmful to floxies? I tried searching dentist/novocain/septocain on the site but nothing helpful came up. I have a root canal and a crown appointment coming up, and I I am not sure which numbing I should get or if I even have options.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 11:03 pm

          Well, that’s a difficult question to answer. We all apparently react differently to them. I was about as floxed as you can get—head to toe, several systems, joints, vision, etc. And yet, I had carbocaine for a dental anesthetic…twice, with no issue. Someone else had a bad reaction. So the same would be true of septocain, or any other cain. (I actually also had another topical one…lidocaine? can’t recall. Again, NO reaction. perhaps we could take a poll, who reacted to what. I don’t know if it would help though. (There is a link I posted above that lists drugs that contain fluoride and there are some anesthetics listed, but I don’t recall hearing of them before.)

          The carbocaine was from an holistic (Huggins trained) dentist. I just did a search and these are the ones normally used by holistic dentists because they are less toxic: Here are the anesthetics used most often by holistic dentists:
          Septocaine – Although not on lower teeth as explained above (can cause numbness)
          Carbocaine – Quite popular anestetic
          Citanest – Dr O’s favorite because it seems to be a little more effective than Carbocaine
          Marcaine – Only used for very long procedures

        • Anna January 10, 2019 at 7:35 am

          Thanks, L! I wanted to be sure I wasn’t getting ready to allow an injectable known to cause definite issues in the majority of floxies. Unfortunately, I have only one endodontist in my city that does decent work, so I’ll have to probably go with whatever he offers.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 10:40 am

          well if you called ahead and explained your situation, he might be able to arrange to have one of these other ones available for you.

        • Bob January 12, 2019 at 9:51 am

          I had carbocain before the septocain. They didn’t think it was working fast enough.

        • Bob January 12, 2019 at 9:49 am

          It is my opinion you should not even get a root canal. Mine failed and the tooth had to be pulled anyway. I was stupid to even consider getting one. that was when they gave me the septocaine. Anything and everything they give you could relapse you. Besides with a root canal you have dead tissue in your mouth that infection can breed under. My current dentist advises against them. If I had a bad tooth now I would try an ozone injection in the gums to try and save it and if that didn’t work I would say put on a topical pain killer and yank it out. It is not worth the risk.

        • L January 12, 2019 at 10:58 am

          I had 3 root canals. Paid $1,000 out of pocket for each, and lost all three within a year. That was about 10 years ago. Knowing what I know now, I would have never gotten them to begin with. It is the only procedure where dying tissue is left in your body. The infections and bacteria from that can then travel through your body and cause illness. There is a lot of info out there, but here’s one site https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/05/31/root-canal-teeth.aspx

      • Virginia January 9, 2019 at 8:49 pm Reply

        I really appreciate the tip I read on this site about standardized 95% curcuminoids Turmeric for depression! Until I had my recent stomach pain, I had been taking it for months and I think it helped. I hope to return to it when my stomach heals. Like Doug, antidepressants had helped me also. I responded very well to them for about 15 years (I didn’t take Fluoxetine), but had to give them up when I got 3 mysterious fractures in one year. Be careful, fellow post-menopausal ladies who have been on SSRIs for years: they have a rare but nasty side-effect of fracturing bones! My endocrinologist did exhaustive tests and ruled out all other causes of the mysterious fractures. Even my psychiatrist didn’t know about the well-documented studies showing this link. Going off SSRIs was very hard on my mood, so I’ve been trying 5-HTP and Turmeric, and hope these will help.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 9:03 pm

          You know ,I was on antidepressants for over 20 years. I can’t even remember the names of all of them (except the last was Effexor, I remember that, and I know I took paxil at one time. ) But I was told I would likely have to be on them for life.

          Then I read a study that antidepressants were no better than placebos. Of course, I bristled at that at first (this was way before my utter disdain for pharmaceuticals! 🙂 ) But I started doing some research, and sure enough, that seemed to be true. But I kept thinking “they have helped.” It wasn’t like I was happy, I just wasn’t as darkly depressed, so I figured they were working. I also had read that the whole basis of depression being caused by a chemical imbalance, the reason for “needing” antidepressants, actually has never been proven. So when I heard about the turmeric I figure I had nothing to lose. Plus it has a number of GOOD side effects. I was doing very well on the turmeric for about a year, then cipro hit. But at that point I had no desire to go back on antidepressants ever again. And through my most horrific, nightmarish, suffocating period post-floxing, there isn’t a drug in the world that could have relieved that depression.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2019 at 4:54 am Reply

        Thanks for the link.There are a lot more of natural remidies against depression;magnesium is a very important one.

  6. Dee January 9, 2019 at 5:16 pm Reply

    Bob, Are you taking homeopathic remedies again with Mr Mueller??? Also may I ask how long you were floxed at the time you took septocaine and had a reaction to it?? Did you feel pretty recovered when you reacted to the septocaine? Dee

    • Anna January 9, 2019 at 10:27 pm Reply

      Ah, I was looking for this comment and just found it! I too would like to know about Bob’s reaction to Septocain. What would floxies use for numbing at the dentist if they can’t use Septocain?

      • Daniela January 10, 2019 at 5:40 pm Reply


        A patient with no history of atopy had two anesthetic injections, one of 2% lignocaine with 1:80,000 adrenaline for a root canal procedure and another of articaine chlorhydrate (marketed as Septanest® in France and as Septocaine® in the US) for a tooth extraction. On the first occasion, a few seconds after the injection, the patient experienced abdominal pain, tachycardia, burning paresthesia on the feet, hands and face, hypertension, hyperpnea, tachypnea, and severe anxiety.

        The second event (with Septocaine) occurred 9 months later. Septanest was administered without noradrenaline, following the recommendation of a cardiologist. However, the patient experienced the same symptoms and some additional symptoms including muscle pain, a sensation of heat, especially on the face, partial paralysis of feet, hands and throat, headache, dizziness, a loss of spatial orientation, and dysphonia. Tachycardia was less intense, but still present. The patient required admission to the emergency ward.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 5:56 pm

          That’s unfortunate but I imagine you could find data like that for most (all?) anesthetics. At least in part, it may have to do with the family of anesthetics it comes from. ” Lidocaine is classified in the amide group of anesthetics, along with mepivacaine, bupivacaine, etidocaine and prilocaine. If a patient is allergic to one of these anesthetics, there is a chance they will be allergic to other anesthetics in the same family. However, an anesthetic from the ester group could be used as an alternative if a patient is allergic to amide anesthetics. The ester group includes anesthetics such as tetracaine, procaine, cocaine, and chloroprocaine.”

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 5:00 am

          This group of synthetic anestetics is based on cocain,the latter,natural thing probably being the safest,but unpatentable.As is what usualy happens when the quacks try to copy a natural,effective and,most of the time,very safe natural medicine just to make it patentable (and véry profitable).

        • Daniela January 11, 2019 at 7:47 am

          Henk, I think you are right. Franken-caine! Do you think I can find a dentist using coca? (I mean for my dental work, not for their own enjoyment!)

          In Thailand they used to have someone give you foot massage, no shots whatsoever.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 8:06 am

          Maybe in Colombia?Or,maybe,this will help?


          In some countries a coca wine was sold,(Vin Mariani),and it was,and might still be used for Coca Cola in the production for some countries.

          But I only accept some anestetics when a tooth has to be removed;for dental cleaning and things like that I think the anestetics are worse than the treatment.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 8:09 am

          Coca Buton is still produced and sold,but I think the leaves are,before production,dé-cocainized.And the alcohol will promote extensive bleeding.So:not advisible!


        • Daniela January 11, 2019 at 10:18 am

          Wrote too soon! The US gov National Institute of Health says inability to break down choline ester drugs can be genetic — or acquired from certain drugs (guess which) “People with pseudocholinesterase deficiency may also have increased sensitivity to certain other drugs, including the local anesthetic procaine”
          SO the thing to do is look into anesthesia alternatives but I am not having luck finding much except unfulfilled promises. Off to Thailand!

      • Daniela January 10, 2019 at 6:46 pm Reply

        The Bosscher Foundation’s aim is to promote scientific research into health related complaints attributed to the use of local anesthetics.

        In particular, the Bosscher Foundation focuses its attention on the anesthetic, articaine hydrochloride, the active component in: Ultracaine™ available in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and many other countries.
        Septanest™ available in Canada, France, Spain and many other countries.
        Citocain™ available in Italy, Spain, Russia and Japan.
        Primacaine™ available in Italy, France, Russia, Poland and India.
        Septocaine™ available in USA, Scandinavian countries and Russia.
        Ubistesine™ available in Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium and many other countries.
        Alphacaine™ available in France, Germany and many other countries

        The Bosscher Foundation suspects that articaine is responsible for a series
        of unexpected side effects.


        • Daniela January 11, 2019 at 10:20 am

          Unfortunately if you have developed choline ester sensitivity even procaine may harm you (see above)

        • Bob January 12, 2019 at 10:10 am

          If your liver is compromised from toxins ANYTHING can affect you.

        • Daniela January 12, 2019 at 10:22 am

          Bob, I completely agree. I’m not going to risk any -caine injection after what happened to me. I can’t even have a sip of coffee! I am having a hard time finding dentists who will work without anesthesia, though.

          It’s so funny because the pain I am experiencing on a daily basis is much worse than the minutes that dental work takes. So it’s obviously about THEIR comfort and not mine.

        • ursula February 14, 2019 at 3:54 am

          I dont know what to do, How on earth am i going to drill out 7 amalgam fillings without -caines. HELP! I am not willing to risk getting worse again. I see Bob says laser method. I dont know if that is in South Africa. You were lucky you found a way Bob. I need to first get a filling for a really bad tooth or i must get it pulled (alive!) But i dont know if im gonna make it. Anyone did it alive? Then a biological dentist must see that the ligamente of the pulled tooth is out how do thay do that? Then i wanna pull 2 root canals also. Teeth in bad shape, havent been to dentist in 6 years! Then i am really scared of mercury problems after mercury removal…

        • L February 14, 2019 at 11:45 am

          Removing the mercury is a good idea, but I would just caution you to find a holistic dentist that is properly trained in the removal. I don’t know where you are in South Africa but I found this from a quick search. http://www.southafricadentist.com/our-vision/

      • Daniela January 10, 2019 at 6:48 pm Reply

        The Dutch organisation dedicated to educating the public about articaine (septocaine) suggests lidocaine, prilocaine or mepivicaine may be less likely to cause an adverse event.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 10:24 pm

          again, I was given carbocaine, which is popular with holistic dds, as being less toxic. I am afraid it will not be “one size fits all.”

        • Anna January 11, 2019 at 2:51 am

          Interesting! Thanks for sharing, Daniela.

        • S January 15, 2019 at 6:51 am

          I had a reaction to lidocaine :/ joints tendons, pins and needles etc…also had the same reaction to amoxicillin.

        • Anna January 15, 2019 at 8:37 am

          My God, what can someone do for dental procedures then!? I am sorry, but topical numbing agents will not cut it for most people, that is brutal. If you have a serious problem, teeth need real medicine in my opinion, I guess you just have to risk being floxed again. Teeth and surgeries are two areas where REAL medicine can not be avoided, and you are further torturing yourself trying to do everything homeopathic. That being said, Flueroquinolones are NEVER again an option, regardless of situation.

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:11 pm

          My ongoing relapse from the root canal is so bad if I had it to do over I would rather had a couple shots of whiskey and pull the tooth. it is not worth years of pain.

        • Anna January 19, 2019 at 8:43 pm

          I understand where you are coming from , Bob! It is just a shame that floxies have to make these types of awful choices. Are you sure it was the numbing agent? I mean, how quickly did the relapse occur and how did you make the correlation?

        • Bob January 20, 2019 at 8:15 pm

          Within one day.

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:07 pm

          Like I said before when you have been floxed anything can hurt you.

        • Daniela January 15, 2019 at 9:52 am

          Hi S, I hate that there isn’t enough recognition of how we are hypersensitive to so many other things. I’m sure there is someone out there who has invented alternative dentistry without any -caines or anesthesia. Lasers, higher speed drills, hypnosis, I’m sure it’s possible. I’ll keep looking, I have to!

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:12 pm

          The laser I just had done worked pretty good.

        • Moira January 22, 2019 at 9:04 am

          Bob, who did your laser cavity filling?

    • Bob January 12, 2019 at 9:38 am Reply

      I am not working with Dr. Mueller right now. It’s was about 3 years after getting floxed that I took septocaine. I was still having some problems with neuropathy but nothing like after the septocain which was like getting floxed again.

      • Daniela January 14, 2019 at 5:41 pm Reply

        Bob, that is exactly what happened to me. I am struggling now with a painful fractured tooth, trying to find a dentist who will a) believe me, b) stop referring me for TMJ and mouth guards when cipro is weakening the teeth, c) work without one of these deadly -caines and d) understand I don’t mean I want general or narcotics or whatever the heck twilight is either!

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:05 pm

          I found a really good dentist in the Cleveland, Ohio area. He knows all about Cipro and the problems with some of these painkillers. I just had a 4 surface cavity done last week using laser. It still hurt some but nothing to write home about. A fractured tooth is obviously a bigger problem. I would guess you would need a crown. He calls himself an “integrative dentist.” If you can find and integrative dentist that uses ozone then he should be pretty good. I guess it all comes down to how much pain can you stand for a short period of time whether for the drilling or extraction. I know someone once that was hypnotized for dental work.

        • L January 19, 2019 at 2:52 pm

          Here is a good start to look for a Huggins trained dentist (the gold standard for holistic dentistry.) https://www.hugginsappliedhealing.com/find-a-huggins-centers-for-healing-dentist/

        • Anna January 19, 2019 at 8:45 pm

          Daniela, you also experienced a relapse from a dental numbing injection?

  7. Doug January 9, 2019 at 11:28 pm Reply

    Hey Bob, did you take the treatment by Dr. Mueller?

    • Bob January 12, 2019 at 9:52 am Reply

      For 6 months

  8. Anna January 12, 2019 at 2:31 pm Reply

    I am curious if anyone here has ever tried AZO to help calm an irritated bladder? It is, and over the counter, supposedly very effective for people who do not have an actual bladder infection, but simply are experiencing irritation of the bladder lining or Interstitial cystitis (IC)/bladder pain syndrome (BPS

    • L January 12, 2019 at 4:01 pm Reply

      I did. and I did use it for a while. I think it did help some, when I wasn’t really bad. (I used their test strips too) But it appears to have a host of possible side effects (also a warning if you have the same mutation that they test for before high dose C IVs…https://www.drugs.com/mtm/azo-urinary-pain-relief.html

      What helped me the most was Chinese herbs mixed by my acupuncturist

      • Anna January 12, 2019 at 4:40 pm Reply

        Thanks, L. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and helpful knowledge!

        • L January 12, 2019 at 5:00 pm

          you’re welcome! BTW, here’s Florida’s SOL on med mal (better than CA!) 2018 Florida Statutes title VIII 95.11.7(4)(b)

          An action for medical malpractice shall be commenced within 2 years from the time the incident giving rise to the action occurred or within 2 years from the time the incident is discovered, or should have been discovered with the exercise of due diligence; however, in no event shall the action be commenced later than 4 years from the date of the incident or occurrence out of which the cause of action accrued, except that this 4-year period shall not bar an action brought on behalf of a minor on or before the child’s eighth birthday. An “action for medical malpractice” is defined as a claim in tort or in contract for damages because of the death, injury, or monetary loss to any person arising out of any medical, dental, or surgical diagnosis, treatment, or care by any provider of health care.


    • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 11:57 am Reply

      Very intersting Anna. I think I’m going to ty it. I’ve checked their products and ingredients. There’re basically two items I’m really interested in. One is a simple supplement with pumpkin seed and soy germ extracts. The other one is the one that L posted the link about. Here in Italy it is sold under prescription.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 13, 2019 at 12:14 pm Reply

        Andrea,I don’t want to discourage you but I found this on AZO (Phenazopyridine is a chemical):As you will know;chemicals are,for most floxies,a no-no zône;they seem to be extremely sensitive for chem’s.


        The Pumpkin seeds are 100% safe.I used them as a snack,for quite a few years,untill I didn’t like the taste anymore.Don.t know about the safety of soy germ extract,but soy is full of fyto-oestrogens,and Phytic acid,which inhibits absorption of minerals( zinc,iron and calcium,etc.) and,possibly,vitamines as well.

  9. Andrea January 13, 2019 at 12:36 pm Reply

    I know it’s a chemical Henk. I’ve already did my homework, but what am I supposed to do?
    I can’t continue lo live like this. I need to sleep. Tonight I wake up at least 7-8 times to urinate. Pumpikin seed and soy germ? Yeah, they could help, but in reality, I don’t really think they’re going to do much. I’ve already tried so many “natural remedies” both for prostate and the urinary tract. and they never turned out to be helpful. I think I’m going to try this last thing, let’s see what happen

    • Anna January 13, 2019 at 1:25 pm Reply

      Andrea, I had IC before taking Cipro, so it is not related to floxing. Let me tell you, I totally understand a flare up will lead you to try almost anything to alleviate pain. Natural remedies I’ve tried have never helped. I haven’t tried AZO yet, but it has decent reviews. The two side effects that I read were it can cause vomiting if not taken with food and one person went to the ER because it caused her not to be able to empty her bladder. Everyone else called it a miracle drug. I have tried the AZO urine test strips, which can cheaply tell you if you have bacteria in your urine (UTI) or just inflammation in the bladder (IC) – I also read a very interesting assessment of why one guy thought he had IC, he thought maybe it was due to a herniated disc, which I happen to have as well!


      The only other medications for IC are anti-depressants/anti-inflammatory/anti-histamines, all of which I would think are more dangerous for a floxy than AZO. Oh, and , I forgot to mention the main IC drug which is Elmiron, which is almost guaranteed to make your hair fall out. Really AZO is not perfect, but for IC maybe the safest medicinal option.

      • L January 13, 2019 at 2:38 pm Reply

        AND Chinese herbal medicine. If someone can find a good acupuncturist who also does TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) that can help. Helped me!

        • Anna January 13, 2019 at 4:26 pm

          Thanks, L. If I lived somewhere else, anywhere but Florida, I would look for someone in this field. But, until I move form this state I am refusing to see any specialists or doctors. I understand floxing happens in many places, but Florida is extra reckless and dangerous in my opinion. I hope to move soon, but until then I am trying to get by without any specialists involved.

      • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 3:11 pm Reply

        Thanks Anna. I’ve read all the side effects about AZO ( phenazopyridine) and some of them are quite scary : colored urine etc. but my problem is that I don’t really understand what’s wrong with my bladder/urinary tract. There’s defenetly some obstruction in the urethra bladder/neck area, that is causing urinaty retention/frequency, but after the FQ it all went downhill. It is not that crazy to think IC can be caused by the FQ. Many are the causes : stress, mast cell damage, neurological damage etc
        PS I’ve also read that phenazopyridine could be cancerogenic, so I don’t really know what to do

        • Anna January 13, 2019 at 4:29 pm

          Several things supposedly can cause bladder pain, without it being UTI. I know endometriosis and pelvic floor dysfunction cause pain as well. I too had retention and that indicates pelvic floor dysfunction, coupled with a back problem, coupled with loving tomatoes/wine/spicy food/acidic food…well I guess it is a perfect recipe for pain. I think in many cases it is several causes.

        • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 4:45 pm

          Yeah, it could be many things. I wanted to do a neurological pelvic floor study, but here it’s not easy to find the right clinic who does it. I don’t really know, there’re so many pieces of this puzzle that I can’t place yet. And we’re alone in this “investigation”. I already forgot about doctors, they’re completely clueless. Maybe the right direction for this particular issue would be finding some pratictioner of pain menagement/medicine. I’m thinking about injections or similar…

        • L January 13, 2019 at 4:48 pm

          and sadly, since most of the damage is functional and not structural, chances are good it wouldn’t show anything anyhow. I had an ultra sound and it showed nothing (other than a bit of retention.)

        • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 4:47 pm

          Right now, another thing that pisses me off so much is that I’ve never experienced GI issues since being floxed, but after taking some probiotics for a few days, here I am, bloated as f**k….

        • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 5:03 pm

          L the study I wanted to do is more similar to an electromiography then an ultra sound, but it would probably show nothing anyhow

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 11:23 am

          You might want to try a good infrared light over the area several times a day. It couldn’t hurt. The good ones are quite expensive though.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 13, 2019 at 1:28 pm Reply

      I do understand the way you’re thinking,Andrea,and I wish you all the luck in the world.A magnetic pulser still is another option.Just bought some “new” photo flashes (Vivitar 2800;my favorit for making a pulser.One of my older homemaqde pulsers needs a “new” flash unit;the old one is worn out and has to be replaced.I intend to take pics,while doing the job,or maybe even make a little movie to explain how it’s done,but I’m not intending to put much effort in this because there;s so much info on this,on the web,already.

  10. Jackie January 15, 2019 at 4:38 pm Reply

    has anyone tried or heard of a device called heelease for the treatment of plantar faciitis?

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2019 at 1:16 am Reply

      I have no experience with this heelease device,but did some research.Their own website explains how it works;it’s a little vibrator which vibrates at a 150 hz frequenty.That’s all.

      On their own website you can read testimonials,and,of course,those are all very possitive.There’s a little video on YT,in which the owner of heelease promotes his product.What strikes me is the fact that the comments on YT are switched off.My guess: on your own website you have full control over the comments/reviews;on Youtube you don’t.Now think:why would somebody switch off the comments on YT ,if he was shure of the quality of his product,and if most customers would,indeed,be happy with this device and would llike to comment on this video?

      If you’d like to give it a try,then please inform us about the benifits you have.If there are no benefits,then,please,please,inform us as well.Most Floxies have a chronic shortage of money because they have high health costs,so we don’t want to waste the prescious little money we have on devices that don’t work.

      • S January 16, 2019 at 4:05 am Reply

        I haven’t used heelease, but I do have a novasonic massager which I use around my muscles and heel area – any part of my body which aches and it really helps my tendons loosen up and not hurt as much…never use directly on tendons or joints but around them, I think they come with a guide for how to use it etc


        Looks like they don’t stock them on there website though, amazon may have some. I would be careful about ordering from ebay in case they don’t work properly however..

        • S January 16, 2019 at 4:28 am


          US webpage – think it’s the same company and similar products, works for me but might not work for everyone…If any one does consider it check if they acceptably returns in case it doesn’t work etc

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2019 at 9:48 am

          I’ve compared both websites and….they’re the same company and website.Or……maybe…..they’re not.Very strange and confusing!

          The method of sonic treatment is not new,and,as far as I can find,effective for treating chronic pains of tendons and muscles,but the equipment is big and veryexpensive.The Novafon isn’t cheap (about $250),the Novasonic (looks the same as the Novafon) is out of stock and the website shows,for the moment,no price.The Healease is even cheaper,and smaller.I have no idea if any of these devices is anywhere as effective as the professional devices,used in clinics.

          As for the TENS unit:scroll down the AMAZON page,push the button “see all reviews”,and then the button “Top critical review”.Lots of problems with this device.Broken screens,bad connections,causing hefty electric shocks;my Sanitas TENS/EMS unit has this same problem.

          Even my Sota devices have this problem;the devices are great but sometimes a cord breaks and gives this shocks.When the connection between the cord and the device is causing this problem,it’s worse.While,with the Sota’s,you only need to replace the cord,when the problem is in the connection cord/device,you might have to buy a new device.

          There are good TENS devices on the market but this one on Amazon might be a risky buy.I advice to ALWAYS read the critical advices on websites like Amazon;those are the most interesting when you want to buy something.

        • Anna January 16, 2019 at 12:44 pm

          Yes, I see what you mean, Henk!

        • Anna January 16, 2019 at 7:35 am

          I am thinking of getting a TENS , electrical stimulation unit. Seems to have decent reviews.


        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:15 pm

          I used to love the tens after a chiro adjustment. After getting floxed it put me in bed for a week.

  11. Mike Wallbridge January 16, 2019 at 8:19 am Reply

    I’m about to go into hospital for a cancer-related prostatectomy and they will be giving me warfarin and an antibiotic, either metronidazole or cephalosporin (2nd or 3rd generation). Has anyone experience of these drugs affecting their toxicity symptoms?

  12. Dee January 16, 2019 at 8:24 am Reply

    Henk, I read floxie home off and on. I can’t remember if you wrote about it before but what is your FQ story? When and how did you get floxed and how are you doing now in terms of recovery? You seem to have researched this so throughly and have so much knowledge! I was just curious what your story was!! With that I do hope you are mostly recovered!!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 17, 2019 at 8:32 am Reply

      Dee,I wrote about how I was floxed,and a previous experience with Metronidazole/Amoxicillin combo several times.

      First thing I noticed,right after the first Cipro tablet (500mg/2 x per day),I got very hefty heart pulptations (almost fell of my bike;was on my way to a supermarket and it fell as if somebody hit me as hard as possible on my brest bone with a sledgehammer,from the inside).I took a year for this symptom to (most of it) disappear. Two times,after a cup of tea,it came back,but not as hefty as the first time.I think that magnesium supplementing was helpfull,here.

      Had,just like after the first course,with Metr./Amox. hyper- and hypoglycemia.About 3 years after that first course I built a magnetic pulser and after 2-3 weeks this symptom,ánd 3 years of loose stools,were under (reasonable) control.

      After the Cipro I waited for 1 month to see if things improved on it’s own,but they didn’t.I started using the magn.pulser again,and after about 2 weeks my bloodsugar seemed stable again,but after a few weeks the problem came back.Again started using the MP,and after 2-3 weeks things were much improved.Since then I use the MP very regularly,with good results.

      I didn’t have loose stool after the Cipro.That might be because I only used it for 2 day’s (4 tablets),but I think it’s mainly because I used (and still use) Flecaïnide Acetate,which makes your stool very hard.The use of both Cipro and Flecaïnide may have atributed to the problem in a great way;before my doc prescribed the Cipro she told me that she had just received a message with a warning NOT to prescribe Cipro to users of Flecainide,but she did just that,nevertheless.

      After a year I started having double vision;my right eye not willing to cooperate with my left eye.This,sometimes,improves (like,when I started using my MP on my eyes,in combination with the Bio Tuner,another Beck/Sota device).But after a few weeks with notable improvements it went back downwards,although,not as bad as it was before.Need to admit that,during the last weeks,I was less constant in using both devices;I regulairly forget to use the Bio Tuner because I use it in the afternoon,but when I’m busy something else,I simply forget it.

      Things that hardly show any improvement,if any,are:memory,”traveling” pains (muscles?tendons?nerves?).Those appear,and disappear on random places in the body.Somtimes they last only minutes,sometimes several day’s.I’m happy with my magnetic pulser,here;realy seems to help quite a lot.

      I’ve had sleeping problems since childhood,and every medicine I had during the last 20 years has made this problem worse (Losec/Meprodazol,and both AB courses).Every day,when I wake up,I feel exhausted,and need hours to recover a bit and “start the day”. I can’t remember how it feels to wake up and feeling “fresh”;it’s simply too long ago.

      There are other symptoms,since I took the Cipro,as well,but compared to the ones I just mentioned I consider those “minor”

      So,where the heart problem,most of it,disappeared,but the eye problem took it’s place,all the other problems are still there in fluctuating levels of severaty.The low energy level ( with a strange kind of feeling tired after having done a (tiny) bit of work;not just feeling tired but feeling sick/ill),the depression (Cipro damage,ánd the black thoughts of knowing how 4 pills changed my life into a constant misery),and,above all,the eye damage.Photography is só important to me,and this double vision makes me crazy and feeling desperate,even without a camera in my hands.Even worse;looking through a viewfinder seems to trigger this “wandering off” of my right eye.And the memory problem;it worries me a lot.The Bio Tuner helps a bit but only for a short period.

      I cann’t forgive my doc for doing this to me because she knew she took a risk with my healt and safety from the start.Her gamble,my risk,I’ve lost my last bit of trust in “science based) medicine and their disciples.

  13. Dee January 17, 2019 at 8:31 am Reply

    Henk, I wasn’t sure if you saw my question a couple of days ago?? I was just wondering how and when you got floxed?? What your story is? You seem to have so much knowledge about FQ toxicity? Did you take a lot of FQs? Are you mostly recovered now and if so what did you do and how long did it take?? I do hope you are mostly healed!! I hope that every floxie has a chance to come close to recovering!! It is a long and tough road! I am 18 months out still dealing with lingering symptoms but SLOWLY improving emphasize “slowly”!!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 17, 2019 at 8:34 am Reply

      I was just answering your question when your “new” one came in :-))

  14. Dee January 17, 2019 at 9:04 am Reply

    Henk. Thanks for your explanation!! Only 4 pills of cipro caused all that!!?? That really boggles my mind!! Do you feel like you are “slowly” getting better with time?? It also sounds like the other ABs caused you problems too?? I also get random aches and pains here and there but not enough to put me in a lot of pain. It is manageable! I also wake up very tired on some days feeling exhausted like I have the flu! I guess this is pretty typical in FQ recovery. It is my understanding that will very slowly improve over time? I hope!!! It sounds like your eyes bother you the most? I sure hope they will continue to heal in “time” too!! I really hate the word “time” now but I guess we all have to befriend it!!! May I ask you how old you are? How long have you been floxed since taking 4 cipro pills?? I took 7 500 mg pills over 3 1/2 days and it gave me multiple and pretty debilitating symptoms for months!! What a journey this is!!!! Not a fun one!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 6:08 am Reply

      Dee,there are people who are floxed more severe than I am,of only ONE pill! And,like I wrote,the doc shouldn’t have prescribed me Cipro because I already use Flecaïnide Acetat,and both are known to interact in a bad way.She’d just received a message telling her just that! But she didn’t thing for a second of prescribing me another AB,instead,phoned around with other “medics”and decided to lower the dose of the Fleacinide with 50 % and “this would be oké”.

      I started to have this feeling of being very tired shortly after starting the use of Losec (which my “then” doc pushed on me),and it got worse and worse in time.After about 7-8 years I started to have this strange tingling feeling at wake-up,like,when you’ve walked 10 miles,came home and lay down with your feet on a pillow.That started with my legs but soon after it started spreading over the rest of my body.On better days it;s still only my legs,in worse day my whole body is tingling,and at those days the tired feeling is at its worst.

      Both AB courses have had a negative influence on this symptom;I think it is mainly caused by the Losec,which caused a severe magnesium defficiency over 15 years of usage.And both AB courses robbed my body of the little magn. left.There’s a good reason,in alternative medicine it’s said:” magnesium defficiency is medical industry’s best kept secret”.

      Well,some things improved (a little),I’m very glad the heart problem almost disappeared but then came the eye problem.With things going up and down it’s hard to tell if there’s that much improvement.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 6:44 am Reply

      Forgot to answer your question about my age ( How dare you? Just kidding ;-)) I’m 64.That might,in part,explain the damage I got,after just 4 pills,and the very slow recovery,if there is any.

      In fact,for some years,now,the advise is to nót prescribe FQ’s to people of age 60 and older,because the are more prone to damage and have a lower chance of (full) recovery.

      • Madge Hirsch January 18, 2019 at 11:26 am Reply

        I was 62 when given iv Cipro along with Flagyl for diverticulitis. After 2 days they stopped the Cipro because I had chest pain and neuropathy in my arms and the cardiologist was called. But they did not tell me I might have had a reaction to the drug nor did they write to my GP who then gave me it nearly a year later for a suspected UTI. Luckily I only took one pill before looking it up and discovering the horror of floxing. One week later I was taken in an ambulance to another hospital with a heart rate of 160 bpm and told I was in afib. Coincidence? After finding out about floxing I was convinced I had been floxed before at least twice but 10 years apart. I did get better but I was younger . This time I am not sure I will recover . My tendonitis is much worse and I have had further incidents of afib. Also now I have mild neuropathy that I never had before. I feel that I have aged much more quickly since the floxing.

        • Corrie Clay February 12, 2019 at 10:20 pm

          Madge we’re about the same age. I was told at a very young age that I was allergic to penicillin and all the doctors I saw after that were almost giddy telling me don’t worry there are so many new antibiotics now it’s wonderful!! Well I think I was given Cipro since it came out in the early 80’s for various minor ailments. I don’t know how many times but I remember when I was 31, I all of sudden couldn’t sleep for about a week. I never put 2 and 2 together of course (cipro). Was told to see a psychiatrist who put me on 100mg of Elavil ( amitriptyline) and I felt like a walking robot, realized to strong and went down to 10mg, stayed on that off and on for many years. I also had fertility problems but luckily was able to have 2 children (now 29 and 27) Weirdly, had gall stones and had to have gall bladder out at age 38. Other thing around the same time had terrible gastric problems everyday no matter what I ate-even drinking water gave me terrible gas. I still have a similar problem today with that.Then in Oct 2015 the bomb went off after taking a couple for cipro for sinusitis, I felt electrical type pains up and down my calves and knew then that cipro was the culprit. Later in Oct. I got the flu shot and that was it. Never been the same since. (by the way at the age of 63, I checked to see if I was allergic to penicillin and I’m not!)

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 6:46 am Reply

      Oh,and I was floxed in september 2016. The course with Metronidazol and Amoxicillin was in 2004.

  15. Flox January 17, 2019 at 1:00 pm Reply

    Whatt are your symptoms?

    • Dee January 18, 2019 at 8:19 am Reply

      Flox, I had multiple symptoms the first few months! Terrible brain fog, very bad anxiety and insomnia. I had sore, achy, stiff joints and muscles, headaches, dry achy eyes with some blurriness, dry mouth and ears. Severe tinnitus. A lot of fatigue, lack of appetite and diarrhea with 50 lb weight loss. Rash on my back, depression and depersonalization. I was like a walking zombie and a bundle of nerves for the first several months. SLOWLY things have improved. I am at 19 months now doing much better but with some lingering symptoms which is mostly early morning wakeup with increased anxiety, tinnitus and bathroom visits. I feel tired and flu like on random days although that is slowly improving. It has been a very slow recovery but I hope to eventually make it all the way!!!!

  16. Dee January 18, 2019 at 7:51 am Reply

    Henk, hopefully you ARE and WILL get better and better and keep improving!! I asked your age because I am 62 and like you feel like my recovery is a lot slower and possibly more compromised because of my age. I hope, pray and wish that I will still completely recover even if it takes me longer I just hope to eventually get there as I’m sure you are!! Did your joints, tendons or muscles get hit very hard?? My CNS seemed to take the biggest hit with slot of brain fog initially the first few months and tremendous anxiety and insomnia. My sleep has improved a lot although I still wake pretty early and suddenly with ramped up anxiety and tinnitus. I have a better morning every now and then like your double vision but it really keeps hanging on and lingering! Basically my nervous system is pretty ramped up in the morning!! I think it is trying to heal but oh soooo very SLOWLY!!!!! I take extra Angstrom Magnesium every day so hopefully that is helping me heal with various other supplements!! How is your sleep now? Do you sleep through the night or wake up a lot??

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 9:10 am Reply

      Well,I hope all of us will get better in time,at least to an acceptable level.
      I got a terrible pain in my left Arcilles tendon,a fwo weeks after I took the Cipro “road to happy-ness”.With help of my magnetic pulser the pain vanished in 1 1/2-2 weeks,but a few weeks later I got the same pain in my right Arcilles tendon;same story.After that I got this,what I call,”wandering” pains all trhough my body.I’m not shure of the cause of these pains;might be tendons (the pains in my joints),muscles,or nerves.Probably all three play their role.

      The tingling effect in my body,at wake up,came before I had any AB;and is probably caused by a chronic magnesium defficiency.And because Amoxicillin (probably Metrnidazole as well),and Cipro rob a lot of magnesium from the body,those courses made things a lot worse.Heart arrythmea started right after the first course,in 2004,and got worse over time,untill I was hurried to hospital,two times in two weeks,in november 2013.

      The first time I was there,I got the flecainide,but 2 weeks later I was back.There I had a hefty discussion with the heart specialist about the Losec,causing this heart problem,but he had a strong argument to prove the long term safety of Losec;”Do you know how many people use osec?”.I was perplex,and it was clear to me that discussing with this idiot was useless.Two month’s later there was an article in all major newspapers about Losec,and mother PPI’s causing a magnesium defficiency if used for too long time.It was advised to not use it any longer than 3 month;I used it 15 years,then!

      After that second visit to the hospital I stopped with Losec/Omeprazole,and since then had no heart problems untill I got floxed.Still use the Flecainide (half dose,since my doctor lowered the dose to “safely” prescribe me the Cipro.Why I still use it? Pure for the fear of getting another heart arrithmea.But things went quite good,for my heart,untill I got floxed.Then I got,from pill one,heart pulptations (? I think that is what it’s called),which took a year,to (almost) vanish.

      These AB’s are said to save lifes,and sometimes they do.But,knowing how many lives are ruined or,at least heavily damaged,I think it’s time for an other vision on this very dangerous “medicines”.Or (my personal opinion) on ALL synthetic,non natural “medicines”.

      My sleep is still a problem.Most days I wake up after 5,sometimes 6 hours.Most times I can’t fall asleep anymore,just stay in bed to recover from the sleep I had.Now and then I fall asleep again and wake up after another few hours of sleep;this is most often after I had a few days of having had too little sleep.Since this started,at the end of last century,I haven’t slept a normal sleep for a single night;can’t even remember how it feels to have had a good night rest.And have no illusion left to,ever have such a good night sleep,in the future.I must remark,here,that I had sleeping problems since I was a little kid.

  17. Dee January 18, 2019 at 8:08 am Reply

    Henk, forgot to ask when did your double vision come on after getting floxed and what kind of heart problem did it cause??? Glad your heart issue is better!!!! That is a real good thing!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 9:16 am Reply

      My eye problems started at the time my heart pulptations were almost gone;a year after being floxed.I was floxed in sept.2016

  18. Mike Wallbridge January 18, 2019 at 9:32 am Reply

    Before being floxed in mid-September, I had no idea of the danger of antibiotics and the damage they could cause. I’m 63 and had used them frequently throughout my life for various chest infections etc. It’s never been a concern but it is now. With an operation coming up next month, another AB is inevitable but I will avoid Metronidazole if I can and opt for a Cephalosporin . . . unless any of you say otherwise.
    So far I’ve been fortunate. Although my eye prescription has changed, pain in my joints is minimal and I’ve found a regime that seems to work for me. I take 600mg of Mag Glycinate and 150mg L-Threonate each day and use a lot of Mag Oil (maybe 1000mg Mag) on my body at night, especially the joints and chest. I take Collagen, a B complex, D3 and a multivitamin. I’m also under a herbalist and eat a detoxing breakfast that should remove Fluorine from the system, and take the remedies he’s given me that will do the same, and repair the tendons, ligaments and other tissues damaged by the Fluorine. Only when I’m stressed does the pain come back. But I dread the thought of adding another AB to my system and what its effects may be on my existing toxicity.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 9:59 am Reply

      Mike,can you tell us about your fluoride detox breakfast? As far as I know there’s only one (scientificly proven) substance to get fluoride out of the body (Tamarind),so,every info about fluorid detoxification is welcome.

      I’m glad to read that,for you,things are working out pretty well;not everybody is so lucky. I’d urge you to avoid all fluoride “fortified” AB’s and other medicines.Metronidazole is a big No-NO,too;I know that from my first AB experience.Your choice for Cephalosporin might be a wise one,if you’re not allergic for penicillins,and if that’s an AB,nót yet “fortified” with the fluorid poison.

      Your supps choice is great;I agree with it a full 100 % !

      • Mike Wallbridge January 18, 2019 at 10:39 am Reply

        Thanks, Henk for your encouragement but I recognise it is early days and my symptoms may alter or get worse. The breakfast detoxifies at a general health level, not just specifically fluorine alone. The herbalist determined that, with the other health problems I have, my body is fairly toxic so that was the place to start though he’s a clever man and has done his homework on Fluoroquinolone Toxicity.

        Basically the breakfast is a pureed mixture of nuts (brazil, walnut, almond), seeds (flax, sunflower and pumpkin), soaked dried fruits (raisins and prunes) and fresh fruit (apples and bananas). But to this he has added ground milk thistle seeds for the health of the liver, tamarind puree and a ground kelp tablet (for the iodine that also pushes fluorine out of the system). What I’ve noticed apart from mitigation of the pain is fairly constant catarrh and flu-like symptoms and I’m sure that’s the detoxification working though it has a long way to go with me!! My wife tried the breakfast once and felt detox symptoms coming on almost immediately! The detoxing isn’t particularly pleasant but the breakfast tastes really good:) My hope is that my ridding the system of all poisons including fluorine, my side effects from Cipro will be shorter lived than they otherwise would be. I understand very little about the “medicines” the herbalist has given me except that he believes they will help heal the tendons and ligaments and help rebuild the mitochondria.

  19. canie January 19, 2019 at 9:21 am Reply

    guys is there anyone who thinks glutamic acid or glycerin could help in detoxfying ?
    i think being floxie could sustain cancer cells i thnk it has amount of flouride
    and toxic chemicals that cause to imbalance hormones ..
    any reviews about what chemicals to avoid ?

    • L January 19, 2019 at 2:20 pm Reply

      There actually is a link to cancer other than that, which is mitochondrial destruction. That also links it to Parkinsons, Alzheimers and ALS. As for what to avoid…probably too many to mention. And then there is the added frustration of different people experiencing different side effects. I think glutathione helped me immensely as I know it has helped others. Yet some say they have had a bad reaction to it. Glutatamine (related to but different from glutamic acid) can help heal the gut, but again, some say that have had problems with it.

  20. canie January 19, 2019 at 9:33 am Reply

    is glutathione can help ..its my first time if ever i will take any opinion ?

    • L January 19, 2019 at 2:22 pm Reply

      just mentioned this briefly in my earlier response to your other question. I think it helped me A LOT, and it has helped others as well. However, some have reacted to it. What I would say is do not waste your money on oral supplements …use either liposomal or get a “push” or IV if you do try it.

    • L January 19, 2019 at 2:23 pm Reply

      Also, you might try NAC (N Acetyl Cysteine) which is a precursor to glutathione.

    • ciprovictim January 21, 2019 at 1:49 pm Reply

      I had a hard reflox with old and new symptoms after taking S acetyl Glutathion 200mg. i was 19 months out.

  21. Mike Wallbridge January 24, 2019 at 8:38 am Reply

    Having been floxed four months ago, I was warned off by yourselves the use of Metronidazole for an operation next month. Now the surgeon has offered me Gentamicin. Does anyone have any experience of using it? I’m a little wary since side-effects can include muscle and nerve damage.

    • Mike Wallbridge January 24, 2019 at 9:50 am Reply

      Someone on another support group has warned me off Gentamicin and all other aminoglycosides. His suggestion is for a Bactrim (trimethoprim and sulfamethoxazole) or Cephalosporins and that these options are used in surgery and do not generally present problems to those floxed. I certainly don’t disbelieve him but would like more confirmation and thoughts. Actually the doctor suggested a Cephalosporin to start with so I don’t know why she’s changed her mind.

    • L January 24, 2019 at 10:08 am Reply

      Unfortunately it’s kind of a crap shoot, since one that might work for one us, could cause problems for another. Lisa wrote up a list of what seems really problematic and what seems ok for most of us. Cephalosporins seem to be on the OK list. https://floxiehope.com/2014/08/08/antibiotics-after-fluoroquinolone-toxicity/

      • Mike Wallbridge January 25, 2019 at 1:52 am Reply

        Thanks, L. That’s a useful list to start with. Very helpful.

  22. Laura Guthrie January 24, 2019 at 12:16 pm Reply


    Had 4-6 rounds of levaquin, sick for 9 months now…I am loosing the battle.
    I need someone that can help me with heart and brain. It is getting harder to think and concentrate.

    Does anyone know how to tell if this is what is eating up my brain and my heart?
    The cardiologist is suggesting a CT aorta (the pulmonary got denied by insurance), I don’t want excessive radiation and he doesn’t believe in Floxed. I need to know what is the best CT to look for the damage before its too late? The MRI of brain says nonspecific abnormal foci. It is either nodular melanoma from the levafloxacin or just the toxicity.

    • L January 24, 2019 at 12:51 pm Reply

      This is long shot, but what state do you live in?

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 24, 2019 at 1:18 pm Reply

      Laura,the FQ’s,especially the fluoride in the FQ family of antibiotics like Levaquin,do harm to the body on a cellulair level.This harms the heart,brain,in fact it can do harm to almost every organ and system in the body.

      I had heart problems (severe heart pulptations) for the first year after Cipro,It slowly vanished,I suppose that magnesium supplementation did most of the job.Last sunday I had a relaps,not so severe as when this started,in sept.2016,but strong enough to worry me a lot.On monday,to my suprise,things were almost back to normal,but in the night fron tuesday to wednesday I woke up with these heart pulptations,now a bit more severe.AFter a few hours things calmed down and I slept for another few hours.

      Yesterday,so,after that horrible night,I woke up and felt extremely tired and sick.After a lot of doubt I did do some shopping and was glad to get home without these pulptations popping up again.Went to bed earlier than normal and this morning I woke up,feeling like I’m used to (tired,but not extremely).I hope that,from here on,things will go “as usual”,at least,for a while.

      This is normal,when floxed.I didn’t have these pulptations for more than a year,and then I got this relaps.Don’t know what caused it.I drank a little bit of liquer,both evenings,before this happened,but I drink just 1/2-3/4 espresso cup every now and then,in the weekend,without any problem.Just this week I drank 1/2 cup Amaro on tuesday evening,and got that terrible night,and on last saterday I drunk 3/4 espresso cup of a polish plume liquor,,my polish neighbours gave me when they came back from a christmas family visit in Poland.I drunk both liquors before without any problems.

      I’d strongly advise you to use a good magnesium supplement like magnesium bisglycinate,and/or rub yourself with magnesium oil. The brainfog,as well,will go up and down.A new form of magnesium,Magnesium L-Threonate,passes the blood/brain barrier better than any of the other forms,which might help here;you mght try that form.Warning,here;don’t take too much magnesium;that’s as bad,if not worse than a defficiency,with almost identical symptoms.

      Laura,I hope you will do well;most of us have recovered quite a bit from\ the worse symptoms but that takes time.Please,tell us what you’ve done so far to ease the symptoms.Did you already take supplements,and which were those? What symptoms do you have regarding your heart,and your brain?Know that all of us have had these desperate feelings,more than once.These,too,will fluctuate;enjoy the periods when things go better.I hope you’ll have a serious amount of recovery soon.Good luck!

      Don’t mind what doctors tell you about being floxed.Most of them are stupid and extremely naïve,and want to stay that way.Every doctor can do his own research on the web,like you did,but they choose to humiliate patients above educating themselves.

    • L January 24, 2019 at 1:21 pm Reply

      Magnesium taurate is an especially good form for the heart. My integrative cardiologist (they’re hard to find!) got me on it first visit. (That is why I asked where you lived. She is in southern California.)

  23. Andrea January 24, 2019 at 9:16 pm Reply

    Hey guys, two questions here. First, has anyone ever undergo surgery after being floxed, and if so, what have you experienced after it? I always wanted to know what someone dealing with our symptoms should use for anestethic and second, if most of us are extremely sensitive to steroids, what should we use in case of anaphylaxis or another serious allergic reaction? what about adrenaline?

    • L January 24, 2019 at 9:48 pm Reply

      There have been a lot of posts recently re anesthetics, if you do a word search. Unfortunately, what works for one does not necessarily work for another. As for steroids, I think it depends on what you are using it for. There is an epi-pen for emergencies (which is epinephrine…I think maybe that;s what you meant instead of adrenaline?) Other things like Benadryl. I am getting allergy drops and they told me to take Benadryl if I have a local reaction like itching ,and I did a couple times. Had no issues with it. Something like serrapeptase, used for many health issues (comes from the silkworm) might be an alternative depending on what you are using the steroid, like prednisone for fighting inflammation. Depending again on what you are taking it for, there may be Chinese herbal mixtures.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 27, 2019 at 12:13 pm Reply

        In this ongoing discussion about anesthetics,one method is missing,and that amazes me because it is,probably,the safest one,for healthy people ánd floxies:acupuncture. Has anybody experience with this method? I know it is used by some dentists.It seems to work quite well,and it is perfectly safe.

        • L January 27, 2019 at 1:00 pm

          I used acupuncture a lot the second year of floxing, and it helped with various issues, but I cannot image it would be useful for me for dental treatments. And then there is the whole practicality of it. Just do not see how you combine the two.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 27, 2019 at 2:46 pm

          Acupuncture seems to be effective as a short term pain reliever;that’s why it is sometimes used in dentistry in stead of an anesthetic.I don’t have any experience with it;that;s why I asked if anybody else has.

        • melissam January 27, 2019 at 7:20 pm

          I have had acupuncture and there is no way that will remove pain for dental work like an anesthetic would or even close. Do floxies have issues with anesthetics?

        • L January 27, 2019 at 7:38 pm

          Do a word search. There have been a number of recent posts on that very issue. Bottom line…it’s different for each person.

        • Bob January 28, 2019 at 3:21 pm

          Yes, Anything can affect you that works on the nerves. Find a dentist that uses ozone and get an ozone injection near the tooth. Rinses your mouth with salt water and vit c powder several times a day.

        • L January 28, 2019 at 5:47 pm

          That just reminded me…when my holistic DDS was removing my mercury fillings, he had me suck down a packet of liposomal C.

    • Madge Hirsch January 25, 2019 at 5:21 pm Reply

      Yes – I had major bowel surgery last year. I also think I had a hysterectomy after being floxed though at the time I knew nothing about floxing. I ‘m not sure whether it made a difference a the only opcI have had before floxing was a tonsillectomy aged 7!

      • L January 25, 2019 at 6:09 pm Reply

        what sorts of medications were prescribed during the surgery, if you know, as far as pain management, anesthetics, prophylactic antibiotics, etc

        • Madge Hirsch January 26, 2019 at 6:45 pm

          They gave me Flagyl for the prophylaxis which I was not very happy about but because of my crap veins the ward nurse refused to infuse me and said they could do it in theatre! So I had it for far less time than normal. After the op I had a morphine pump that I could use and then paracetamol. I din’t know what the anaesthetic was apart from the Propofol . I recovered pretty well except for a bout of afib due to dehydration when they removed the catheter and drip. My bladder was irritated and I peed like crazy all day but I could not drink enough as the gases from the keyhole surgery make you feel horribly bloated . Also I was starving to death as all you get is compote and yoghurt fir 3 days!

        • L January 26, 2019 at 10:15 pm

          that’s ret…especially in light of the flagyl. I have heard about some pretty nasty reactions to that as well.

        • L January 26, 2019 at 10:15 pm

          That’s great, especially in light of the flagyl..have heard not good things about that

    • melissam January 27, 2019 at 7:22 pm Reply

      I would like to know the answer to your question too. I have an acoustic neuroma (benign brain tumor) that is being monitored. And WHEN it needs to come out, I will need major surgery, with loads of steroids to keep brain swelling down.

      • Bob January 28, 2019 at 3:26 pm Reply

        Maybe it will stay benign and never need to come out. Is that a possibility?

  24. Henk Noordhuizen January 25, 2019 at 4:24 am Reply

    I just saw the documentary “Poisoning America: The Devil we Know”.It’s about Dupont and their Teflon.And about,what fluoride can do to the health of humans.And,of corse,the shear unscrupulousness of companies like Dupont.This is a MUST-SEE movie,and a warning to all of us!

    More facts on organofluorines can be found,here (pay attention to “Biological role” and “Applications”,especially “Pharmaceuticals and agrochemicals” and “Inhaler propellant”.

    Citation:”An estimated 20% of pharmaceuticals, and 30–40% of agrichemicals are organofluorines, including several of the top drugs.[25] Examples include 5-fluorouracil, fluoxetine (Prozac), paroxetine (Paxil), ciprofloxacin (Cipro), mefloquine, and fluconazole.”

    Here is the link:


    Notice that,at the end of the page,the writer tries to downplay the risks of these,and other fluoride containing substances,although most of these substances are never researched on their safety or longterm risk of human health.

  25. Henk Noordhuizen January 25, 2019 at 4:29 am Reply

    Oh,and don’t use any non stick cooking ware;the new,and “safe” non-stick layers ae just as dangerous as C8/Teflon.Citation:

    “In lab tests on rats, GenX has been shown to cause many of the same health problems as PFOA”


  26. Flox January 25, 2019 at 6:41 am Reply

    21 months out and i still have the peroxids in blood over the reference.

    Some idea how to normalize it?

  27. Attsy January 26, 2019 at 3:26 pm Reply

    Hi, just have a quick question about colonoscopy. How did you tolerate preparation and then analgosedation if you went through it? Did you have any side effect? Thanks a lot.

    • Virginia January 26, 2019 at 8:37 pm Reply

      i did wonderfully with the colonoscopy. No bad reaction at all to the sedation, in fact I felt really great when I woke up: probably because for once there was no pain at all anywhere in my body! I felt very relaxed.

    • Madge Hirsch January 27, 2019 at 7:31 am Reply

      I find the colonoscopy prep upsets my digestion for several months. My surgeon said it strips out the microbiome like antibiotics do. I got acid reflux after each one which I don’t usually suffer from..

  28. melissam January 27, 2019 at 6:55 pm Reply

    I’m frustrated and scared.
    Floxed first time: July 2016. Healed pretty much fully 5-6 months later.

    Floxed second time: May 2018. By October was feeling like I was really making great headway and coming out of it. Was super encouraged. Ended up with strep. Went on Apo-Cephadroxyl (Cephalosporins family of drugs). After less than 2 days, noticed familiar peripheral neuropathy returning with anxiety and muscle cramping and legs trembling. Switched to Amoxicillin/Clavulin and took 10 days dose. Spent the next 4 months recovering from that episode. Was just starting to feel like I was going back to where I was, still not healed, but really doing well. Was back on my bike cycling, etc.

    And then, BAM, so random, got a TOOTH infection. I don’t get teeth infections? It wasn’t even confirmed by x-rays. Everything looked clear but I had all the signs and the pain was worsening each and every day. Went on amoxicillin yesterday, literally the antibiotic I assumed was sooooo safe for me. I am no pro antibiotics and don’t get why I keep needing them as of late. Anyhow, today, jello legs starting back up. Now, back to trembling legs, muscle twitching, pain, anxiety….I’m not an anxious person! What is happening? Does anyone understand? Do all meds chelate magnesium from the body? I’m very confused and frightened. I also have to finish my dose this time because you don’t mess with a tooth infection. I have until Saturday on this. obviously scared of worsening symptoms.

    If anyone has any insight, I’d be all ears, but something tells me none of us understand or no. I’d also be curious if anyone has a similar story, how long it took to come out of it. And should I up my mag further?

    • L January 27, 2019 at 7:35 pm Reply

      I wish we DID understand all this better. One thing I would do, if it were me, is to take magnesium four hours away from the antibiotics. (This is something dr jay cohen suggested) I know it says to NOT take mag while you are on it, but apparently if you wait 4 hours, it won’t interfere with the antibiotic. Also, make sure you are on good quality, multi strained probiotics. The gut is connected to pretty much everything going on in your body, and antibiotics destroy the good microbiome.

      • melissam January 27, 2019 at 7:38 pm Reply

        Thank you! Well amoxicillin does not say NOT to take Magnesium, so I have been taking my usual 3 pills a day…and today decided to do 4 pills, and an epsom salt soak…I just don’t get it. Maybe it is a gut thing. I have to finish my antibiotics. Praying nothing worsens and that I heal quickly. Essentially praying for a miracle.

        • L January 27, 2019 at 7:42 pm

          well I sure hope things turn around. we’re all just flying blind for the most part here.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 28, 2019 at 2:17 am

          I totally agree with the advice L. gave you;magnesium and a good probioticum are the best you can do for the moment.

          Do you have the possibility to control your bloodsugar level? Amoxicillin is known to disturb it;both hpoglycemia and hyperglycemia are possible.Those,too,might give you anxiety and trembling and you might feel dizzy,confused.But without metering it’s hard to doing anithing about it;you first have to know if your bloodsugar level is too high or to low.Too low is easy to correct with a BIT of carbs.

          I hope that you will recover soon,as you did before,Melissa;I wish yo good luck !

        • Madge Hirsch January 28, 2019 at 6:22 pm

          Also take Saccaromyces boulardii for probiotic. This is a type of beneficial yeast .

        • melissam January 29, 2019 at 5:06 am

          I am worsening by the day. The pain and weakness is in the arms too now, and worse in the legs. Insomnia is back, tingling, etc. I just went back to where I was last summer. How? Can I never take amoxicillin again? Am I just making for myself issues with all antibiotics? Why is my tooth still hurting? Is it even an infection. So many questions. Don’t know what to do this morning. I can’t take my next antibiotic dose…

          Madge, I’ll check out what you wrote. Never heard of it. Is it in a specific brand of probiotics?

        • L January 29, 2019 at 10:38 am

          Are you seeing a regular western medicine doctor? If so, I would urge you to try to find an integrative/functional medicine doctor. Even better, one familiar with fluoroquinolone toxicity. I don’t know what you are taking the antibiotics for, but there may be non-chemical alternatives.

        • Bob January 30, 2019 at 3:09 pm

          I was in the same position as you and I cannot take any antibiotics. VC, ozonated water, colloidal silver and salt would all be good to rinse your mouth with several times per day. If you have an integrative dentist near you they might be able to stop the infection with an ozone injection.

        • melissam January 29, 2019 at 10:57 am

          I talked to another dentist. He said stop the antibiotics immediately. He said they aren’t even doing anything and he wouldn’t have given them.
          He would like, however, for me to have a root canal done first thing tomorrow morning to fix the pain and avoid future issues. Not sure how I feel about this! I never have teeth issues, but this one sure does hurt.

          Yes, I’m seeing a regular dentist…I don’t really know of anyone that is familiar with fluorquinolone toxicity but I have looked into that. I am seeing a naturopath now that at least has some knowledge.

        • L January 29, 2019 at 12:02 pm

          I would STRONGLY advise against the root canal. Holistic dds don’t do them, because what it does is leave a dead body part inside your mouth that is a breeding ground for bacteria The bacteria then can travel through the miles of canals and into the rest of your body. I had three a number of years ago…paid $1,000 each and LOST each tooth within a year. I was mad at all the money I spent. But now I am glad that I ended up having the teeth removed, knowing what I now know. You can do a search on this, but here’s a starter http://naturaldentistry.us/1676/why-are-root-canals-bad/

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 12:44 pm

          Dr.Mercola also strongly advises against root canal

        • L January 29, 2019 at 12:04 pm

          btw—two of those teeth were on the end, so it didn’t matter too much; but one was in the middle of the right set of teeth on the bottom. If you leave it “empty” then the surrounding teeth will start to move and you end up with all sorts of problems. I got something called a “flipper” which is a single fake tooth that just fits in there all the time. I just take it out to clean it at night when I brush my teeth, and pop it back in. I forget it’s even there.

        • Bob January 30, 2019 at 3:22 pm

          My last dentist talked me into trying a root canal. That was the 2nd biggest mistake of my life after Cipro. The septoocaine and carbocain tripled my PN among other things. Why would you want dead tissue in your mouth that could trap infection and cause future problems? I didn’t want to lose my tooth but I did anyway. You need to find a new dentist even if you have to drive a distance.

        • L January 30, 2019 at 3:30 pm

          Exactly! There is NO other medical procedure that is done that leaves a dead body part inside you.

        • Anna January 31, 2019 at 8:24 am

          So, if Ozone wouldn’t work on an aching tooth, then extraction would be the next option. Are you all really suggesting to pull a tooth without a numbing agent? I mean, would a dentist even consent to that? Even in the wild west they would at least get someone drunk before pulling a tooth or amputating. 🙂

        • L January 31, 2019 at 10:46 am

          OH, no way, Anna. Plus I doubt you could find anyone to do it. You definitely need to be numbed. Also I would go to an oral surgeon. (Your dentist may very well refer you.) They have far more experience with tooth extraction. (They may also have more options as far as anesthetics.)

        • Anna January 31, 2019 at 5:31 pm

          Oh, ok, L. I thought, wow, this page has some tough people, recommending to pull a tooth with out numbing 😉

        • L January 31, 2019 at 6:03 pm

          Not me! I’d take a pain killer to get my teeth cleaned, if I could! 🙂

        • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:49 am

          “if I could” same with me.

        • Bob January 31, 2019 at 12:45 pm

          I would do a lot of research on a numbing agent that would cause the least problem first. Me personally if the ozone did not work I would consider no numbing agent. That is only because I would rather have a lot of pain for a shorter period of time then all the pain I have had in the 2 plus years since the relapse. Of course for any given person a relapse is an unknown so everyone has to decide for themselves.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 31, 2019 at 12:53 pm

          Bob,I never read anything about ozone,having anestethic qualities;after all it’s just a source of extra Oxigen.Do you have any sources/links? You made me curious.

        • Bob January 31, 2019 at 1:13 pm

          It is an extra source of oxygen and can clean up infection as it unstable can oxidize toxins and bacteria. I can’t remember exactly where I saw it but I believe it was on youtube. There is an organization that promotes the use of ozone I am sure that you could find easily. I didn’t know about it for dental work until my wife found this dentist in Cleveland, Ohio that uses ozone. I went to him and got several injections around a tooth that was not infected but had pain. Whatever was causing it went away. He recommends rinsing your mouth with ozone water regularly. I make my own by bubbling it into water.

        • Bob January 31, 2019 at 1:15 pm

          To be clear ozone is not a pain killer, but if there is underlying infection it can clear it up and then the pain would of course go away.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 31, 2019 at 1:58 pm

          I make my ozone,too,with bubling ozone through a glass of cold water.It gives me more energy and that,for hours.And I shuer need that energy because after being floxed there is so little energy left,physically and psychic energy.

          The problem with tooth infections is,that there are not much vains inthat area,so the blood,and the antibiotic,or ozone cann’t work very effectively.In 2004,I had some infections in several tooth pockets and the dentist’s assistent (the one that cleans your teeth) said she would send me a recipy for AB,to start the course 2 days before she would clean my teeth (pockets),but she forgot.That’s why I started the AB course directly after she cleaned the first half of my mouth and give me the recipy.Next week she did the second half while I was sick as hell after 4 days of Amoxicillin and Metronidazol.

          Later on I was explained by my dentist why antibiotics hardly work in that area,and tooth after tooth got pushed out of my jaw because the infections got tremendously worse after that absurd treatment ( remember her,saying that she was gonna rescue my teeth,just before she started;half a year later I got tha upper protese because I had hardly any tooth left in my upper cheek because of her “rescue”. And it lasted 3 years before I got reasonbly well from the B-course,thanks, to the Bob Beck protocol.

          Right after that “rescue mission” I also had to give stam cells and t-cells to a brother of mine,who had leukaemia (a diagnose I still doubt,with good reasons).while I was extremely sick from that absurd B course.Got a series of daily injections with some “mysterious” brew tho push my stemcells into my blood.Wonder what this stuff has done to my health.I had some controls,later on,because they wanted to know if ther was any long term adverse reaction to this brew.Then I started to understand that,for those “half-gods”,we’re only guinea pigs.

          Why my teeth were in such bad condition? After 15 years of using Losec,a PPI,I had a severe magnesium defficiency,which not just ruined my teeth,but my health,from top to toe.Long,before I discovered that I had not too much but too litthe stomach acid.Never asked for that Losec,with which all my problems started;the doc pushed it on me.

          I,for a while,thought that it was just bad luck,me,having such a bad doc,but after a while on FloxieHope,and after over 10 years of research I know that many,if not most docs are like mine,pill pushers who havent got the faintest idea of the harm they’re doing,or just don’t want to know.

        • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:24 am

          For the ozone to do any good with a dental problem you need several injections directly into the infected area. The beauty of it is that if it does not work there are no side effects.

        • Anna January 31, 2019 at 5:33 pm

          Bob, I in no way judge that decision. I just know I could not handle extracting a tooth without numbing.

        • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:46 am

          I would have said the same thing in the past.

      • melissam January 28, 2019 at 5:45 am Reply

        Thank you Henk! I do have the ability to check my blood sugar (my dad has one of those thingies to test). Worth a shot. Will continue on with the magnesium and probiotics. It feels so much like a mag deficiency…after my first floxing, once I healed, I had no issues with any of these antibiotics. I wonder if this second floxing time, I wasn’t fully healed yet (my mag levels weren’t where they should be?), and so my body was more sensitive. Of course this is all just my own conclusion :). Thanks again. All the tips help.

        • Madge Hirsch January 28, 2019 at 6:25 pm

          Perhaps the gut disturbance alters the absorption of the magnesium?

        • melissam January 29, 2019 at 5:07 am

          Madge, that is what it feels like. I just didn’t know if that was a known thing or not. I think I’m having antibiotics too close together, and I need to heal. I hope and pray this doesn’t mean I am doomed in the future, unable to take any antibiotics???!!!! I did not have this issue after my first floxing which I had healed from.

        • Madge Hirsch February 1, 2019 at 1:05 pm

          Unpleasant though the reality is you have to be prepared for relapses even when you think you are healed. I reckon I have been dealing with floxing over a now 30 year period though I had no knowledge such a thing existed till August 2015. But looking back over my heath problems I am pretty sure I was floxed and got better(ish) in1989/ 90 and again in 1999. But not completely and not quickly. In 2011 I had what I think was a relapse brought on by a flu jab. After 12 years – 12 years in which I took no antibiotics at all, got my hypothyroidism ( which might well have been provoked by the first floxing) treated and moved to a much nicer ,sunnier and less polluted place. Each floxing left me with health problems that though not that bothersome never really went away completely . I got used to the new normal. I do not expect to heal completely anymore. Just not getting any worse would do somedays. I do not really expect pain free days – it’s a bonus to have days when the pain is less. You could just be going through a relapse and will cycle out of it. Tell yourself it will pass and take it easy. Be nice to yourself and do not expect too much of yourself.
          We have all become too dependent on things like antibiotics. There are natural ones you can take. If you can follow L’s advice and get an integrated doctor. At least in America they are easier to find than in parts of Europe!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 28, 2019 at 2:25 am Reply

      P.s. Don’t overdo the magnesium;at the moment your kidneys are busy getting the poison from the infection and the medicines out of your body,ánd try to level your magnesium intake.So;don’t overdo the mag,because a too high magnesium level is at least as dangerous as a too low level.You might,for the moment,better stick to the interdermal mag you do (the Epsom bath).The mag pills might interfere with the antibiotic;I hope the Amox,at least solves the tooth problem.

      Tnank you for sharing your acupuncture experience.

      • melissam January 28, 2019 at 6:06 am Reply

        So don’t take my 3-4 mag pills a day on top of the epsom salts? So confused of what to do. Thank you for this!

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 28, 2019 at 7:33 am

          What makes it very confusing is,that a defficiency and too much mg. give almost the same symptoms.And because the pills follow the same track,and have a laxating effect,it might be better to,temperory,skip them and only use the interdermal method (bath,magnesium oil rub).Best is,of course,to let your intercellular magnesium be tested.

          My personal preference of probiotics is the Lactospore,because it passes the stomach (acid) un-damaged).

          The best way to test your glucose (in-) tolerance is,to test:

          1.At wake up
          2.Right before a meal.
          3.One hour after the meal.
          4.Two hours after the meal.

          Do this last three tests (2,3 and 4) after several meals to get a view on how your body reacts on differend kinds of food.

          This is the only usefull test.The way a dr. tests has no use at all (except for his bank account);your bloodsugar level fluctuates throughoot the day;can even change in a few minutes.

      • melissam January 29, 2019 at 5:38 am Reply

        Thanks Henk! Only I’m worsening and I don’t know if it’s now because I hung back on the magnesium yesterday (except for epsom salts). This is maddening. Fearing I need to stop the antibiotic. I don’t even KNOW for sure that I had a tooth infection. Ridiculous.

    • nemiller2014 January 29, 2019 at 12:52 am Reply

      Hi Melissa–I just came up with a tooth infection (abscess as well–haven’t had a tooth infection for decades) after levaquin poisoning this march which caused my achilles tendon to rupture (was surgically repaired). I also had levaquin poisoning (though I did not know it) in March, 2016. Unfortunately, for me, RA has always been blamed when this antibiotic is clearly at fault at least some of the time for my tendon inflammation. I have been interested in this thread as the date corresponds with my own trip to the dentist (on the 26th) and I am sitting here with a Z-pak hesitant to try. I needed to take antibiotics post-Levaquin this summer for a stomach infection-Z-pak and then later clindamycin. Clindamycin was ok. Z-pak may have caused some liver enzyme trouble so I am not surprised to hear about your wobble-legs (I’ve had that) and panic–I am worried too, about needing to take an antibiotic when I am so new to the magnesium and aggressive probiotic regimen which does seem to have helped recently. Checking with all my doctors (though they missed the Levaquin risk in the first place–never should have been prescribed for a minor sinus infection!!). Like you, I have just been introduced to a glucometer so I can track blood sugar. It went very low post-Levaquin and I am still battling with my moments. Sounds like a good way to keep a handle on how we are feeling (my dad is diabetic).

      • melissam January 29, 2019 at 5:11 am Reply

        So we are in a similar situation! I’m so sorry for your tooth abscess.
        I did take antibiotics in November and my reaction didn’t worsen. I ended up with the wobbly legs, some leg pain, but it didn’t progress past that.
        THIS TIME, it’s progressing. It’s now affecting my arms in addition to my legs, tingling all over my body, insomnia, anxiety is back…. I think you’ll be okay since you were floxed in 2016. I was first floxed in 2016 and was fine on antibiotics after that. This time, it’s different. I wish I could turn back time and have realized what was happening to me after the first floxing so that I wouldn’t take the stuff again. I so wish! I think I’d be fine now if I had done that. Keep us posted!

        • nemiller2014 January 29, 2019 at 11:53 am

          Hi Melissa, I took levaquin for the second time in March 2018, and am currently recovering from achilles tendon surgery after that tendon snapped in November. The tooth abscess developed last week, in a tooth which previously had a root canal (20 years ago). I had levaquin in March 2016 also which caused tendonotis, anxiety etc. but the second time this March was far more severe. And I am allergic to amoxicillan, so have been prescribed a z-pak for the tooth while I wait to see an endodontist. I am so sorry amoxicillan is causing you trouble right now, which is reminiscient of your floxing experience. Is it possible you are ingesting anything with fluoride in it–toothpaste, fluoride treatment, black tea or green tea? Or medications which contain fluoride? I would check this list-http://www.slweb.org/ftrcfluorinatedpharm.html
          Some anti-inflammatories I can take (I also have RA), and some I can’t–and anything tylenol-derived causes the symptoms you mention now that I have been floxed so watch that especially (anything with codeine in it).

        • Bob January 30, 2019 at 3:25 pm

          Z-pak can affect your heart.

        • melissam January 29, 2019 at 3:43 pm

          nemiller2014, to answer your questions,
          I’m not worried about fluoride that I may be taking in. Our water doesn’t contain it.
          I’ve been fine with Tylenol thus far…I hope to stay that way! Everything keeps changing on me.

          I truly attribute the issue to amoxicillin but I have never, ever had an issue on it. Again, it switched on me!

          So I’m all set to have a root canal in the morning. Either that or what? I don’t have an answer. I don’t think I can wait with the pain to see another dentist/specialist/holistic. I’m too scared the pain will worsen and it will become an abscess which it isn’t right now. I really fear I may be doing this for NOTHING. My healthy tooth, with a root canal :(.

        • L January 29, 2019 at 3:50 pm

          The “or” is just having the tooth removed.

        • Bob January 30, 2019 at 3:33 pm

          I felt just like you when I got my root canal, again it was a Big Mistake. A good dentist can tell if you really have an infection. If you do it may be better to pull the tooth.

      • melissam January 29, 2019 at 5:40 am Reply

        I just reread your story! So you were floxed twice as well :(. Really sad. Our stories really do match. This is very difficult. I’d love to know how you do on antibiotics. It just sucks all around. Too much antibiotics in such a close amount of time. And I have a very big dilemma, not sure if i continue on the antibiotics or not…

        • L January 29, 2019 at 10:47 am

          ok, so now I see it is for a “possible” tooth infection. Ugh. Always ready to throw pharmaceuticals at us, without proof we need them. So I would amend my former comment to finding a good holistic dentist. Not only for this, but because they use safer protocols and materials, and no fluoride. Mine is a bit more expensive than my old dentist, but it is worth it. You want someone Huggins trained. (I first went to someone who said they were holistic, and in fact lied about Huggins training and she ended up closing her office and leaving people in the middle of dental work. So you want the real deal.) https://www.hugginsappliedhealing.com/find-a-huggins-centers-for-healing-dentist/

        • Bob January 30, 2019 at 3:16 pm

          I agree 1000%. My last dentist caused my relapse. The dentist I have now uses lasers and ozone and would never do a root canal.

        • L January 30, 2019 at 3:28 pm

          That’s great. You know I really liked my former dentist…but when I said she shouldn’t use cipro anymore she laughed. I don’t think it was that she was being obnoxious, she just literally had NEVER heard that cipro was so toxic. I dropped a bunch of papers off on the subject. Hopefully she will take it more seriously now.

        • Bob January 30, 2019 at 3:40 pm

          I told my optometrist to never use Cipro eye drops and she took it very seriously.

        • melissam January 29, 2019 at 10:58 am

          Thank you for this L!

      • melissam January 29, 2019 at 11:37 am Reply

        nemiller2014, do you need a root canal as well? I’m surprised with my great teeth that I was suddenly told I need one. I guess it would take the pain away and avoid antibiotics…

      • melissam January 31, 2019 at 6:47 pm Reply

        nemiller2014 did you take the z-pack? how are you doing?

  29. Kyle January 28, 2019 at 1:54 pm Reply

    Hi L – I believe I have read from one of your earlier post that you are suffering from sinus issues (post floxed). Curious if anything has helped? Eleven months out and I continue to experience allot of pressure and discomfort throughout my sinus’s including constant headaches and dizziness. I have been able to tolerate Claritin, however it has not provided me with any relief.

    • L January 28, 2019 at 2:30 pm Reply

      Afraid not. Been about 11 months. Just constant post nasal drip, stuff in my throat, an then it drops into my lungs and I have trouble breathing. I have a list a page long of what I have tried. I get a bit a very temporary relief with Sudafed, which I don’t like to take too often. Tried so many things that are supposed to thin mucus, like serrapeptase, NAS, MSM, others. Not much help. Even tried two prescription nasal sprays. They worked for about a day, then stopped. So frustrated. An ENT wanted to give me nasal steroid spray. Told him I couldn’t take any steroids. So out of luck there. It’s really put a halt on my life..especially with the lung part. I was floxed 4 years ago, and in spite of having a half dozen remaining side effects, I had about three months where I felt like I could finally, mostly, get back to my old life. Then this happened. 😦

    • Madge Hirsch January 28, 2019 at 6:30 pm Reply

      I had acupuncture for sinusitis many years ago. It worked well despite being unpleasant. The needles were inserted in the face. Unfortunately my first call was to an allopathjc doc who gave me antibiotics and I believe my first floxing.

      • L January 28, 2019 at 6:37 pm Reply

        Tried that. I am afraid this is some other kind of beast from cipro. Either mast cell activiation disorder (although nothing seems to help for that either) or some other kind of weird side effect that no one can figure out.

        • Madge Hirsch January 29, 2019 at 6:32 pm

          I have a lot of mucoys these daystoo. It is not giving me serious breathing problems but the runny noe is a pest. Eating seems to make it worse .

        • L January 29, 2019 at 8:48 pm

          I ‘d be ok with a runny nose at this point. Everything is going down the back way. I always have something in my throat that I can’t clear, and then when it drops to the upper lungs I feel like I am choking at times. Can’t get it to go either direction.

          Yours however sounds like it very well could be a food allergy. Have you been tested? (I was hoping that was my issue, but I was allergic to almost nothing! Just a very mild allergy to oats (and of course I am an oatmeal eater) but nothing else.

    • Virginia January 28, 2019 at 9:14 pm Reply

      I have found great relief for my sinuses with Neti pot. It’s nasal irrigation using a porcelain mini tea pot. I used to get sinus infections several times a year; now I never do. It was one of the biggest health improvements I’ve seen in my own health. Hope it helps.

      • L January 28, 2019 at 10:52 pm Reply

        Been using a neti pot for years. This is way beyond that but I appreciate the suggestion

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 4:22 am

          I have cleaned an old,little spray “bottle”,bought when I had sinus problems after I caught a cold,and,when neccesary,I fill it with Ionic Colloïdal Silver (homemade,with the Sota Silver Pulser).Untill now,it always worked.Before I used that spray bottle I just put a bit of Ionicsilver water in my nose and sniffed it.The spray bottle is more effective and easier to handle.

        • L January 29, 2019 at 10:23 am

          done that too. used colloidal silver in a nasal spray for three weeks. nothing. this is just an enigma to everyone

  30. Tricia January 28, 2019 at 8:15 pm Reply

    Hello all….im 4 years out, recovered well after many adverse reactions including peripheral neurapothy . However, yesterday I took less than 10 mg of vyvanse, an amphetamine. Later in the day I began to feel the return of pins, needles, burning in my hands , feet, legs and arms ,as well as leg pain. Today it still continued, not getting better whatsoever.
    Has anyone else experienced this ???? Is it possible to get “refloxed” from an amphetamine????

    • L January 28, 2019 at 8:28 pm Reply

      well that sucks. one thing we have all learned is that there really is no telling what will set off a reaction. And for each of us it seems so different. I have done fine with anesthetics that others have reacted to. I have taken Xanax (to get on a plane) and had no issues. But since amphetamines stimulate the nervous system, this might not be surprising. “Amphetamines enhance the effect of neurotransmitters in the user’s brain. Neurotransmitters are naturally-occurring brain chemicals that communicate information throughout the brain and body. Neurotransmitters conduct signals between neurons, or nerve cells. ” So it’s possible I suppose that you could have had this reaction even if you hadn’t been floxed. It is beyond frustrating that this poison seems to never leave. I hope these fade quickly. https://study.com/academy/lesson/how-amphetamines-work-in-the-brain-body.html

      • Tricia January 28, 2019 at 8:49 pm Reply

        Thanks L,
        I read the link. That makes sense, unfortunately. I hope and pray these symptoms are not permanent!!!

        • L January 28, 2019 at 8:57 pm

          yeah….keep us posted

    • Andrea January 28, 2019 at 8:53 pm Reply

      Hi Tricia.
      I agree with L. Any stimulant is potentially dangerous for floxies, that’s probably why, many of us can’t tolerate caffeine anymore (actually with caffeine there’s also the low blood sugar factor). Anyway, to answer your question, yes, I think it could be possible to get refloxed from amphetamine (not saying this is your case). But also by any other things. The huge problem about FQs is that, they seem to make you so weak from any side. I’ll give you my latest experience : never had any GI issues since being floxed 2 years ago. Tried a couple of times two different brand of probiotics, just for prevention. Had no issues with them. Then, a few weeks ago, I’ve tried another brand of probiotics, supposedly very effcient. Well actually too much. I’m still suffereing from bloating, gas and irregular bowels. It seems like my body can’t “regenerate” from stress like it used to. Many people expereince these side effects while on probiotics, but they generally go away while you finish with them. not in my case…

      • L January 28, 2019 at 9:02 pm Reply

        yeah. I had gotten my gut healed (so I thought) now for the last couple months…major problems, in spite of probiotics and digestive enzymes. The most confounding thing is never really knowing if something actually was the cause or if it was a coincidence. Recently my tinnitus has gotten really loud, and the phantom smells are returning more often. Related to all the unending congestion issues? Who knows. Is it something I did or didn’t do? Who knows. Just beyond frustrating.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 4:32 am Reply

      Do you use Vyvanse for ADHD? Vivanse,Ritalin and other synthetic stimulants are prescribed for ADHD because coffee can’t be patented,but in trials worked as well,and is a very safe,contrary to those prescription-drugs.You’d better not use tea,instead of coffie,because tea (works as well) contains fluoride,and can cause a relapse in floxies).

    • Bob January 30, 2019 at 2:55 pm Reply

      ANYTHING can affect you, especially anything that has an effect on nerves.

  31. Mike Wallbridge January 29, 2019 at 4:29 am Reply

    How do you discern if you’re taking too much magnesium? I’m taking 750 mg of glycinate and L-threonate daily together with possibly 800 mg from magnesium oil. I’ve been relatively pain-free fine for a while until now when I’m having problems/pain from my achilles tendon. But I go into hospital next week to have my cancerous prostate removed and I know that stress/anxiety eats up magnesium. So do I need more right now or am I possible taking too much?

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 4:40 am Reply

      Is the 750 grams from the mag pills,the elemental magnesium,or the total weight of the pills (filler,and other ingredients)? How much your skin absorbs is very hard to determine,so,the 800 mg is just a rough guess.I think this amount of magnesium will get you through “rough times”,and taking more is,in my opinion,not a good idea.

    • L January 29, 2019 at 10:34 am Reply

      It’s hard to say, but Dr Jay Cohen had recommended up to 800 mg day for initial floxing;. The L-threonate is one of the better absorbed ones, so if it were me, I would just stick with that for now. Taking any one supplement in too high a dose can effect other supplements you are taking. Taken in too high doses can cause arrhythmia.

    • Mike Wallbridge January 29, 2019 at 11:00 am Reply

      I think the 750 mg is elemental magnesium. The glycinate tablets say 100mg per tablet. But how much is absorbed, 20%? Is the 800 mg suggestion of Dr Cohen (who is he by the way), the elemental magnesium taken or the amount that needs to be absorbed? If I have to choose between glycinate or l-threonate, I will have to choose the former because the latter is way too expensive for me, though I like to take some because of the brain barrier. Henk, are you saying that what I’m taking, both pills and oil is okay but not to take more? You seemed to okay this combination when I recently told you my regime.

      • L January 29, 2019 at 12:18 pm Reply

        Dr Cohen didn’t really specify the type. He personally liked glycinate for himself and said the oil did nothing for him. He was a doctor who helped get the word out on FLQ toxicity (even testified before a congressional committee.) Shortly before his death he wrote a book called “How we Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The Worst Medication Disaster in US History.” I think taking large doses INITIALLY is different than staying on high doses later on, because in the initial stages, the flqs severely deplete your stores. Here is part of what he says about magnesium. “it is often necessary to take increased doses such as 600, 800 or perhaps 1000 mg/day for months. …because magnesium is usually excreted quickly via the kidneys, it is better to take the supplement in divided doses …” He goes on to urge people to work with a health practitioner who can measure levels from time to time. He personally took extremely high doses for many years for another health issue, and ended up with tremor, slurred speech and some other side effects. (but again, this was over many years.) He also again mentions using higher amount in the beginning of being floxed. For how long? I don’t think there is an answer for that, but again probably best to have your levels checked.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 12:46 pm

          I looked around for this book od Dr. Jay Cohen but I can’t find it for sale anywhere,anymore.Seems to have disappeared from the planet,somehow.

        • L January 29, 2019 at 1:25 pm

          Hmm. Not quite sure what this means…it says “out of print, LIMITED availability” https://www.amazon.com/How-Halt-Cipro-Levaquin-Catastrophe/dp/1518626866 Might try some used books cites….

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 2:11 pm

          Yes,that out-of-print message is there for quite a while,now,and I did an extended search on the web but didn’t find any site,offering it,in stock.

        • L January 29, 2019 at 3:45 pm

          That’s why it’s so odd it says “limited.” As in zero? 😁

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 2:37 pm

          Recently a new book of his was published,on this subject.He also gives advice for alternatives:

          I don’t understand how this book came on the market,since Dr. Jay S. Cohen died in december 2015.But it might be helpfull;I think I will order it.

        • L January 29, 2019 at 3:44 pm

          That’s odd. He died shortly after the one I mentioned was published. Do you have the name of the other book?

          Sent from my iPhone


        • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 4:01 pm

          That other book is : “How We Can Halt The Cipro & Levaquin Catastrophe”. This book was published in 2015,shortly before he died,and is out of print.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 2:40 pm

          Rotten Amazon ruined my link.Look for the title;What You Must Know About the Hidden Dangers of Antibiotics

    • Bob January 30, 2019 at 3:02 pm Reply

      I would be much more concerned about the anesthetic. Maybe load up on some vit C and get a vit d shot if its low.

  32. Cipro2017 January 29, 2019 at 5:48 am Reply

    has someone bad cns symptoms before getting her period?

    • L January 29, 2019 at 10:49 am Reply

      This wouldn’t surprise me since these toxins screw with your hormones. I vaguely recall Lisa posting about this a while back. You might try to do a word search.

    • L January 29, 2019 at 3:53 pm Reply

      This is bizarre. It says originally published in 2018. But he died in 2016. Wonder if his estate brushed off an older book and published it

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 29, 2019 at 4:06 pm Reply

        He actually died in december 2015;there’s a memorium,written by Lisa,if I’m right,here,on this website. Could well be a written,but not yet published (untill 2018) book.There should be more info on this in the book,first page.

        • Lisa January 29, 2019 at 4:17 pm

          Here is the post I wrote to memorialize Dr. Jay S. Cohen – https://floxiehope.com/2016/01/22/in-memory-of-dr-jay-s-cohen-m-d/. From a cursory glance at the new book, it appears to me that one of his remaining family members published the book under a different title. The copyright of the new book is under Barbara Isrow-Cohen. I don’t know anything more about it than anyone else, but I am pleased to hear that the book is still available.

        • L January 29, 2019 at 5:07 pm

          Aha! I was going by way a friend of his posted but she sai “several months ago” so I didn’t account for it going back another year

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 30, 2019 at 2:54 am

          Hi Lisa,the old book had 206 pages,the new book only has 144 pages.This can hardly be the same book,I guess,or otherwise they removed over 60 pages.

  33. Dee January 30, 2019 at 4:24 pm Reply

    Melissa, did you go ahead with your root canal this morning?? If so, did you do ok with it?? I hope so!!!🙏🏻

    • melissam January 31, 2019 at 9:02 am Reply

      I was just writing the group in a new comment to update! Thank you for your care and concern and checking up on me. I didn’t do the root canal. I’m in so much pain right now. Read the new post I’m adding right now.

  34. melissam January 31, 2019 at 9:06 am Reply

    I didn’t do the root canal yet and had to stop the amoxicillin on Tuesday because of my reaction after 3 days (peripheral neuropathy worsening, anxiety worsening, burning and tingling everywhere, burning spine…). The pain has been increasing since, but one dentist said, if it was an infection, I should have felt the pain go since I was on the amoxicillin for 3 days. The pain wasn’t gone but it was significantly diminished. I started the antibiotics saturday and stopped them on tuesday. As of yesterday (wednesday), the pain is increasing all day…I’m in so much pain right now!

    Also no one seems to think I need a root canal (x-rays look clean, no tooth sensitivity, I can even bite down on the tooth, tap on it no problem, etc), and no one can tell if it is an infection. This makes everything VERY confusing.

    Clean x-rays, 3 dentists, no sensitivity to hot and cold, no big pain upon tapping the teeth, etc. But why SO MUCH PAIN since stopping antibiotics :(. That part frightens me to no end. After 3 days on antibiotics my reaction was so severe and now I’m refloxed…I can’t imagine what it would have been like after 7 days. I never had problems on amoxicillin, even since being floxed. So suddenly everything changed for me??? I’m very upset that I now cannot tolerate any antibiotics. I wish someone could help me, explain…I want to understand. Does anything i’m writing resonate with anyone? Has anyone had a re-floxing to antibiotics, but then after some time, they were able to re-tolerate them again? I need to know that there is future hope for antibiotic usage. This cannot be my life now forever? What if I heal from the quinolones…..then can I try amoxicillin again? has anyone done that?

    Do I even have an infection? I wish someone could tell me that.

    • L January 31, 2019 at 10:52 am Reply

      I wish I (or anyone!) had an answer to those questions. I have not had to take an antibiotic since being floxed 4 year ago. So far I have been able to manage with oil of oregano, colloidal silver, etc. This stuff is so damned confounding.

      The tooth thing is really strange. If they found no evidence of infection, then my first guess would be a sinus issue. Is it upper or lower? If it is lower, has your dds checked for TMJ? (It’s a wonder we’re not all grinding our teeth at night. Maybe we are. I have a couple teeth that are very sensitive and ache sometimes, but xray shows nothing.)

    • melissam January 31, 2019 at 12:27 pm Reply

      I am for sure set back after the 3 days on amoxicillin. I’m not in the acute terror that I was on tuesday from it (that’s the best way I could describe it!). But now the peripheral neuropathy is worse for sure, and overall tingling. I’m so bummed. And the issue isn’t even fixed for me to be able to move on!!!!!

      I have heard others taking Z pac no issues, so maybe that could be a next step. I’m trying all sorts of natural things right now, but the pain is intensifying by the minutes and I’m getting scared again (because of seeing antibiotics as my only hope…or a root canal which makes no sense given my x-rays).

      It is my lower back tooth, so not sinus. And my sinuses feel fine. I had this happen 2 years ago and antibiotics fixed it, but I never let it get as bad as it is now. I pray it is just some weird nerve pain that will subside! I didn’t try colloidal silver but I am doing oil pulling, oil of oregano, essential oil stuff…I just took an alicin garlic but I have no idea!

      • L January 31, 2019 at 12:49 pm Reply

        I just don’t understand how if they don’t see any infection, you would need antibiotics. Have you tried a second opinion? (maybe from a holistic dds?)

      • Bob January 31, 2019 at 1:00 pm Reply

        Maybe you should try acupuncture. If you don’t have an infection it could just be a nerve issue.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 31, 2019 at 1:10 pm Reply

        Melissa,like others wrote,I,too,think it’s best to look around for a second opinion.Without any proof that there is an infection it’s senseless to use antibioytics (like most docs:”I don’t know the cause,so,first try with an antibiotic,and when this doesn’t work,we”ll try something else”.

        One possibility might be a severe nerve pain.I had one during the last 2 weeks,and went through hell! Now it’s almost gone,but my heart pulptations returned.The nerve pain might be caused by a badly made full upper teeth protese,and/or the Cipro.Hard to tell because I got both in the same time.It’s like a high voltage going through my cheek;most of the time it’s triggered when I want to eat something.Strange,that the heart punding problem,like the nerve (?) pain,comes in “attacks”,with breaks in between.

        II think that extracting the tooth,like using the antibiotics,without even beaing shure something is wrong with that tooth,isn’t the best and most logic thing to do.It might not even be your tooth,or a nerve,but the jaw-joint.I do hope you’ll get better soon,and without those desperate but un-logical measurements.

        • melissam January 31, 2019 at 2:04 pm

          My naturopath mentioned the nerve pain as well. Was your nerve pain in the tooth? but I just don’t know why I felt a little better on antibiotics for the three days. That keeps coming back to mind. That points to bacteria? But again, why wasn’t the pain gone after 3 days I don’t know. Because normally on antibiotics with a true infection, that is how it goes for me, that after 2 days or so the pain is gone or it is so obvious that the antibiotic is working.
          It truly feels like the pain is coming from my tooth as I can put my finger between the two teeth and feel the pain point. I’ve seen 3 dentists. None see anything. But the pain is rising, rising, rising…one said sometimes an infection in the tooth pulp doesn’t show on x-rays. I tried to google that to see if it’s true but I’m having a hard time seeing anything. My gums don’t look inflamed around the area. When I tap the tooth it is like a super dull ache, but only if I tap it from the side closest to the middle of the two back teeth. Maddening! I’ll try to keep holding on!

          I’m so sorry to hear of your nerve pain! What in the world! I hope and pray it leaves you for good, and the heart palpitations as well.

          Agreed: I do the illogical the higher the pain is. And by illogical, it is running to antibiotics when I don’t necessarily need them. And that is where I’m at again. I need to heal.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 31, 2019 at 2:52 pm

          Melissa,the nerve pail,if I’m right in what it is,is almost gone,after two weeks or so.Just like when I had it the first time.Only these heart problems,which I have since the first Cipro pill,make me feel worried,and tired and dizzy;I hope those will disappear soon,and for long;a year after those started,they were gone,only,once in a while,I feelt the palpatations for short moments,and very gentle,not like the first one which almost rocked me from my bike.

          As far as I know,with tooth infections,you should have a higer body temperature,maybe not a real fever but 1/2 -1 degree (Celcius) higher than normal.Problem is that the first thing people do when having severe pain is using a painkiller,which brings your temperature back to normal in no time.To know your real temperature you need to stop taking a painkiller for at least 8-12 hours,and that’sno fun.

          I do have pain in nk,head and jaw on the right side,now and then,and I know there’s “something there,right ánd left.s long as my gums keep lose and the sh.. can come out (whch gives a nasty taste) there’s no problem bgut now and then the gum ataches to the teeth,and the infection gets closed in.This makes me sick for days,or even longer,but within 2 weeks the pain and the horrible feeling are gone.During that time I use both my Silver Pulser and my Magnetic Pulser (the MP reduces the pain a bit).I swish my mouth with Ionic (coll) siver. All these problems,caused by a PPI I didn’t even ask for!

          Yesterday I found this page,which makes perfectly clear what’s going on in the “scientific based” medical industry,and why more than ever before people,many of them children,are in a tremendously bad health.It’s the first article of seven,and I can’t wait till the next one is published.Written by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.:


          There are other good articles on that website as well, I also found an article from Mark Sirkus on magnesium.and one explaining why shortage in Recombivax causes reduced death in babies.Another extremely interesting one is : Why the law forbids the medical use of natural substances.

        • L January 31, 2019 at 3:48 pm

          Kennedy is very brave. Whenever I dare mention the toxins in vaccines on line, I end up on the bottom of a heap. EVERYONE just loves to pile on and tell me how ignorant I am. The big pharma brainwashing runs deep. Even Media Bias, a site that is mostly pretty good in discerning how factual a site is and how liberal or conservative it is, just blasts collective evolution. Infuriating

        • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:43 am

          This is the most sophisticated brainwashing program ever created. You can’t even bring it up without the dogs being unleased. 9-11 is anther one but don’t get me started on that.

        • L February 2, 2019 at 10:48 am

          I won’t, but I have my suspicions as well…

        • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:28 am

          I had gum inflammation recently I was sure it was an infected tooth. It was not. I used colloidal silver, vit c powder, ozone and salt rinse several times a day and it went away. Are you trying anything like that?

        • melissam January 31, 2019 at 2:59 pm

          Thanks Henk. Very interesting.
          I hope your heart palpitations go as well.

          My concern with my pain is how badly it is increasing. Something’s gotta give.

          I took my temperature just now (I’m a stubborn one and didn’t take painkillers today) and it was at 98.3 F. I think that’s normal.

    • Bob January 31, 2019 at 12:56 pm Reply

      As I said before I cannot tolerate ANY antibiotics but I am not particularly concerned about that as they should only be used for raging infections as far as I am concerned. There are other options. It seems strange to me that you have so much pain but no one can detect an infection. I have had quite a bit of dental pain that seems to have no known cause since getting floxed but it was tolerable. I really think if you could find a good dentist you could get some help. If the tooth was really infected tapping on it with a metal object would cause sharp pain. I know it is hard to concentrate in a lot of pain. Is there someone that can help you find an integrative dentist? I think ozone would be worth a try.

    • J January 31, 2019 at 1:04 pm Reply

      I had a reaction to amoxicillin, stopped after one pill. The reaction was exactly the same as levofloxacin. I’m due to see an Immunologist in March. I’ve had reactions to fluconazole, trimethoprim and lidocaine. All of them apart from amoxicillin, use the CYP3a4 liver enzyme which could have been damaged by levofloxacin? I thought I was safe with amoxicillin however I was not. All of the ones I have reacted to pass through the blood brain barrier I think? So maybe it has to do with that? Not sure…if the Immunologist isn’t much help I’ll see if I can see an Mitochondrial Disease specialist, might not get anywhere but worth a try.

      • melissam January 31, 2019 at 1:54 pm Reply

        Oh wow, so I’m not alone with the Amoxicillin reaction! Have you taken any antibiotics successfully?

        • J January 31, 2019 at 2:31 pm

          Nope :(! I’m doing similar to what others have said, and trying natural alternatives, as much as I can. My major concern other that antibiotics is general anesthetic, if a tiny amount of lidocaine can give me a reaction I’m guessing general will be worse.

          I would say though my reactions are quite short, I’m most better, back at the gym (last reaction was 6 weeks ago) and just working my way up to do weights slowly, 4th time I’ve gone this so I know how far to go with it.

      • melissam January 31, 2019 at 2:58 pm Reply

        do you mean you’ve been floxed 4 times now or relapsed 4 times? Is each relapse quicker or longer to heal? When were you floxed (how long ago)? Sorry for all the questions! Learning here!

        • J January 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm

          I’ve only had levofloxacin once, 2 and a half years ago. I had the same reactions/symptoms to the 4 different medications mentioned previously – starts with tingling, pins and needles, aching all over, dizzy, tendon, muscle and joint pain. the dizziness tends to go away quickly within a few days, but other symptoms take longer. I’m not sure if these would be classed as is a relapse/flare?? My initial reaction to levofloxacin took me 6-8 months to get back to normal but I only took 1 pill. I’ve followed a lot of what people have recommended to take on here and just see how by body reacts. I’ve never had reactions to anything other than the prescription meds, no reactions to food or drink – I can drink coffee, tea and alcohol without issues, although I haven’t had alcohol for over 5 months due to 2 flares/reactions happening so close to each other.

  35. Dee January 31, 2019 at 11:40 am Reply

    Melissa, I hope your flox symptoms are lessening since being off the antibiotics for a couple of days??? I hope!!! Have you considered colledial silver as an antibiotic? Maybe a drop or two on the tooth area?? Henk knows much more about using colloidal silver!! I hope at least your floxing symptoms are improving!!! 🙏🏻

    • Dee January 31, 2019 at 11:44 am Reply

      Melissa. I’ve also heard a lot of floxies do pretty good on Z pac???

      • melissam January 31, 2019 at 2:30 pm Reply

        Heard that too! Maybe something to consider…I’m not sure anymore what to do.

  36. Dee January 31, 2019 at 12:45 pm Reply

    Melissa, maybe a piece of food got stuck between gum and tooth?? I hope your flox symptoms will disappear soon!! Did you have a lot of pherphial neuropathy when you were initially floxed?? Hopefully it will leave soon! Keep rinising your mouth with salt water! Manuka honey is a natural antibiotic too!

    • melissam January 31, 2019 at 1:54 pm Reply

      They checked for the food :(. I so wish!

  37. Dee January 31, 2019 at 12:48 pm Reply

    Bob, Have your relapse symptoms improved in the past 2 years? I sure hope you will recover again in time!!

    • Bob January 31, 2019 at 1:01 pm Reply

      No they have not.

      • melissam January 31, 2019 at 1:55 pm Reply

        I am sad to hear that Bob. Were you far out when you relapsed? Very disheartening. After my first floxing, once the symptoms were gone, they were gone. This time seems different, like I can tell I’m going to improve but always fragile.

        • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:15 am

          3 years but everyone is different.

  38. Dee January 31, 2019 at 1:57 pm Reply

    Bob, I’m really sorry your relapse symptoms haven’t improved. That really boggles my mind and scares me at the same time. Was your relapse as bad as your initial floxing? I thought you said your relapse gave you increased pherphial neuropathy? Was that your main symptom originally?? Gosh I hope you get some relief soon🙏🏻

    • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:20 am Reply

      The relapse was different than initial floxing but still bad. I hesitate to talk about this as it scares people that it can happen to them. Everyone is different but what seems evident is that most of us could relapse at any given time if we are exposed to the wrong thing. The wrong thing could be different for any given person. Me, the only way I would consider an antibiotic is if death was certain if I did not take it. I don’t know about anyone else.

  39. Joanne. January 31, 2019 at 3:23 pm Reply

    About 6 months ago, I had severe tooth pain on the back bottom right. Since being floxed i try never to go to the doctors or dentist, but it was getting so bad i could not eat or sleep because of the pain. So in desperation and not wanting to go to the dentist, I got a q-tip and soaked it in magnesium oil and held it on the spot for a few minutes and by the next day the pain was less than half. I continued for about 3 or 4 days just to be sure and it completely went away and never came back. After the first day, I googled if magnesium oil could help heal a toothache and unbelievably there were a lot of sites.
    Let us know what you try and how it helps.
    Good luck😊

    • melissam January 31, 2019 at 3:28 pm Reply

      You give me hope Joanne. How bad was your pain? I’m dying here and the pain is increasing. It is a pain that I’m feeling like in my brain. In my head, in my neck, in my face. I can’t take it.

      • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:39 am Reply

        I have pain from the top of my head to the bottom of my foot on the left side. Many times the left side of my face feels numb my jaw hurts and the vision in my left eye gets blurry. This has gotten so bad at times I thought suicide is the only way out. However, I am still here and still trying to get better. You are not dying and you will get better. Do you have any access to infrared light. I have a portable unit that I use on my head, my foot, my jaw, anywhere that hurts and it seems to help. I alternate that with ice paks. Try to not panic and you can think more clearly.

    • melissam January 31, 2019 at 3:30 pm Reply

      Also what kind of magnesium oil?

  40. melissam January 31, 2019 at 3:44 pm Reply

    Is it possible to be floxed on amoxicillin but not penicillin?

  41. melissam January 31, 2019 at 3:44 pm Reply

    Correction! Is it possible to be RE-floxed on amoxicillin (suffer a relapse) but not penicillin?

  42. Joanne. January 31, 2019 at 4:24 pm Reply

    Yea, my pain was extremely bad. It started at the base of my tooth but eventually It spread in my face and neck.
    You can buy magnesium oil at any health store. I used Ancient Minerals bought on amazon.

    • melissam January 31, 2019 at 5:49 pm Reply

      That helps Joanne. I am really thinking I missed my window to help me naturally treat my infection.
      1. It has been 10 days.
      2. I went on antibiotics for 3 of those days and then got off of them. That bacteria is now more resistant.

      And now as time is passing, it’s becoming more and more evident it is in fact an actual infection.

      • Joanne. January 31, 2019 at 7:17 pm Reply

        I never had my tooth checked, but I had the pain at least 14 days before I tried the magnesium oil. And since being floxed i’m more afraid of the antibiotics than i am of the infection. So if you change your mind and decide to try it, I forgot to say I sprayed it on my cheek and neck too.
        Good luck in whatever choose😊

        • melissam January 31, 2019 at 7:25 pm

          wow. Again, giving me hope! My husband went out and bought the spray. Trying it.

        • melissam January 31, 2019 at 7:26 pm

          Also, was your pain getting worse, and worse, and worse????

        • Joanne. January 31, 2019 at 7:45 pm

          Yes! I got to the point where I couldn’t eat or sleep because the pain was so bad.
          And like I said the area was growing from starting at a tooth to traveling up my face and down my neck.
          I just know how thankful I was to have this help me because I was so afraid to
          take another antibiotic.

        • melissam January 31, 2019 at 7:56 pm

          That sounds like my pain and how it’s growing, only I added 3 days of antibiotics in the mix which I am worried “ruined” my chances of me healing myself with the bacteria growing stronger/more resistant. I also don’t know how long is too long to wait in the extreme pain. Say a little prayer for me tonight.

  43. Joanne. January 31, 2019 at 8:00 pm Reply

    I will 🙏

  44. melissam February 1, 2019 at 6:48 am Reply

    I think I need antibiotics again for this tooth infection that is becoming very clear it is a bad infection. Any suggestions on which ones?
    So far what I have reacted to (relapsed):
    – Apo-Cephadroxyl (Cephalosporins)
    – Amoxicillin

    Has anyone also felt a relapse on the meds and still continued them to the end? I’m dying here. I have been calling dental clinic after dental clinic to beg them to extract the tooth but no one can see me.

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 1, 2019 at 8:25 am Reply

      Melissa,I think that,when you descide to take another AB course,the Cephalosporin might be the safest choice.Amoxicilline,on the other hand, causes severe adverse reactions,even in non-floxies.I found this information,which suggests Cephalosporins are quite safe but I don’t know if this is also true for floxies.


      You might discuss this with your doc,if he/she is serious about the FQ dnagers and what it has done to your health,and sensitivity to other durgs.Also ask if the AB he/she wants to prescribe is free of Fluoirid.There is,at the moment,no info on that group of anibiotics on slweb,but their list are not yet complete.

      I hope,this will help to get rid of your problem,without making matters worse in the end.Good luck!

      • L February 1, 2019 at 8:45 am Reply

        While different floxies react to different antibiotics, amoxicillin is pretty benign compared to most. (And Lisa lists them along with cephalosporins and z pack under “possibly safe.” Again, one of us is bound to react to any one of these.) As for Drugs.com I wouldn’t trust them more than any other standard western medicine site. They promote ads for new FDA approved drugs, and just read one of their blogs. https://blog.drugs.com/2019/01/to-take-or-not-to-take/

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 1, 2019 at 9:27 am

          The problem is that websites like drugs.com,webmd and rxlist are,sooner or later,taken over by the Farmaffia.Read a new article,on collective evolution,about the corruption of the Farmaffia ánd our governments,written by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.This man and polititions like Ron Paul are among the few who might safe us,and the rest of the world!


        • L February 1, 2019 at 10:10 am

          Yes! I was just commenting the other day on how brave Kennedy is to speak out on things like this…especially dangers of vaccines.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 1, 2019 at 9:29 am
        • Henk Noordhuizen February 1, 2019 at 9:40 am

          One good reason to het rid of this patent-driven “medicines”,besides the fact that the original,natural remedies are more effective,and,most of the time,very safe,is the fact that these synthetic copies drawn the economic systems to death.USA ÉU etc. see the costs of synthetic medicines explode;here,in the EU,the new question is: Do the ever rising costs of medicines cause an ever growing shortage of “people (docs,nurses) at the bedsides of the patients? And the answer is,as you might know:”YES”.

          Too many reasons for going back to natural remedies,to ignore !!! Even without considering the extra costs of all the damage those synthetic “medicines” cause to people and society.

        • Bob February 2, 2019 at 9:58 am

          Like my doctor said, Eventually everyone will go back to natural medicine because it is cheaper and doesn’t kill you. It is just a question of how long it takes for the public to wise up.

      • melissam February 1, 2019 at 11:40 am Reply

        Ah! I reacted to Cephalosporins in a big way. I can’t ever go back there.

        Well, I just came back from a dentist that was amazing.
        1. it may be nerve pain (trigeminal neuralgia? I hope not)
        2. could be damaged nerve from clenching/biting down. I think L said that yesterday.
        3. could be an infection, but they don’t see it yet! She sees something questionable on the x-ray but wants me to see an endodontist to confirm. she really does not want me doing a root canal/tooth extraction/antibiotics for nothing. I can try all of the natural antibiotics in case, and at the same time I have a prescription for Zythromax JUST in case my face swells up over the weekend. They don’t think that will happen and believe i have time.

        I need to keep managing the pain now, and trying all kinds of natural things in hopes to calm this down.

        • L February 1, 2019 at 3:18 pm

          Glad you found someone sensible! The pain might not only be from clenching down, but perhaps nerve damage from the cipro. (Most of my damage was nerve and/or mitochondria related.) I too have pain on and off in my lower teeth, but an xray showed nothing. I think it is also from grinding my teeth at night. (gee, not like any of us have any stress!) Also sometimes it is worth with water that is the least bit cold. Notice sometimes when I brush my teeth. My dds recommended using a q-tip with clove oil on it. Helps some.

        • melissam February 2, 2019 at 6:01 am

          I thought that too with the nerve damage from Cipro. Oh I’m frustrated by this pain!
          I had a lot of nerve damage this second time being floxed too. Did your nerve damage heal? I felt like I was making great headway too!

        • Bob February 2, 2019 at 10:00 am

          Have you had any luck in finding a dentist that uses ozone? Where do you live?

        • melissam February 3, 2019 at 9:50 am

          Bob, I don’t know anyone here who does that. I live in the Montreal, Quebec area.

  45. Dee February 1, 2019 at 8:22 am Reply

    Melissa. I haven’t used it but a lot of floxies do well on Z pac??

  46. Dee February 1, 2019 at 12:13 pm Reply

    Melissa. That sounds promising and hopefully you won’t have to take antibiotics or root canal!!! I pray it will subside on its own soon!!! Are your floxie relapse symptoms lessening?? I hope so!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻 Try to hang tight and stay calm.

    • melissam February 1, 2019 at 12:42 pm Reply

      I hope it just goes away and never returns! Shoot! I feel like the back of my neck is squeezing in. I’m so glad I didn’t do the root canal the other day until I knew for sure. What a weird roller coaster ride this week has been!

    • melissam February 1, 2019 at 1:03 pm Reply

      Dee: My new relapse floxie-symptoms are still there but manageable. I don’t like them. I move slower. I am very athletic and this really upsets me how much I’m forced to slow down. I feel more wobbly in the legs, wobbly in the arms…still some tingly feelings. Nothing is worsening. Wherever I was at when I stopped the antibiotics was where I remained. I am worried about future antibiotic needs. I really want to know if a floxie reacted to an antibiotic, and then after many years of healing, were able to come back to that antibiotic. You know what i mean? Just many questions.

  47. Dee February 1, 2019 at 2:18 pm Reply

    Melissa. Yes! That is my question and my concern too!! And we change with time in the future and not react to future meds or antibiotics that we didn’t do well with. So frustrating and unpredictable. I think your relapse symptoms will improve soon!! Keep us posted!!

    • melissam February 2, 2019 at 6:03 am Reply

      Thank you Dee! Will do! No one seems to be able to respond to our antibiotic question, about the future. It’s such a guessing game!

      • Mike Wallbridge February 2, 2019 at 6:19 am Reply

        It’s very frustrating. I have a cancer operation on Thursday and, after being floxed four months ago, I haven’t agreed the antibiotic to be used with the surgeon yet. We meet Wednesday. She’s suggesting Gentamicin (after I kicked out her idea, Metronidazole) which I don’t like the sound of. Many people say that the cephalosporins are relatively safe. But then I go and read several reports of others that react badly to them, having been floxed earlier. What to choose? It’s like playing lottery with your life!

        • melissam February 2, 2019 at 8:07 am

          I am SO sorry Mike. If it helps: after my first floxing in 2016, I could take any and all antibiotics. I never had an issue. It is only now after my second floxing that I’m having problems. You may not have any problems whatsoever, and I’m hoping and praying for that for you. Please let us know!

        • Mike Wallbridge February 2, 2019 at 8:53 am

          Thanks for your encouragement. But sorry, maybe I didn’t make myself clear. As a result of my floxing (which may have been my third but never had problems before), I’ve had eye and sight problems and issues/pain with my ligaments/tendons. The magnesium helps as does treatment from my herbalist but I’m nervous about taking any further antibiotics. But I have no choice. The problem is choosing one that will work for the surgeon but not worsen my symptoms or introduce new ones.

        • L February 2, 2019 at 10:26 am

          Is z pack an option for this? Many have not had an issue with it. No guarantee, but the odd may be more in your favor.

        • melissam February 3, 2019 at 9:51 am

          I understand better now Mike. This is so hard! I’m still in such intense (terrible, horrible) tooth pain and have Z Pack antibiotics here on the counter, but I’m holding off as long as I can. Please write an update when you can. I do believe you’ll be okay…I really do.

  48. Joanne. February 2, 2019 at 9:50 am Reply

    I don’t know if you thought about it already, but I would load up on probiotics if I were facing having to take ANY antibiotic. Because even when I have to take a natural antibiotic they flare me up, and the only thing that helps is VSL probiotics. I’ve tried many others but these are the only ones that help me
    get me out of the flare.
    Also since you said you have cancer, I would read up on Essiac Tea.
    Good luck,
    I hope and pray all goes well for you.

  49. Mike Wallbridge February 2, 2019 at 10:03 am Reply

    Thanks for your advice. I’ve actually been taking a probiotic for the last few months, part of what my herbalist suggested. I’ll have to stop while I’m taking the antibiotics but I’ll be back on them soon. Thanks for the suggestion about the tea. I’ll look into it. I’ll report back soon. Hopefully I’ll be home again within 10 days.
    Many thanks

    • L February 2, 2019 at 10:51 am Reply

      I would personally continue the probiotics while taking the antibiotics…just time them say 4 hours apart. You might want to do a bit of research on this.

    • Madge Hirsch February 3, 2019 at 11:30 am Reply

      You can still take S. boulardii a beneficial yeast while on antibiotics.

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