Bronwen’s recovery story – The “heart” of Cipro toxicity

Bronwen on Diamond Trail cropped

*The following is an individual’s story of surviving fluoroquinolone toxicity. It is not medical advice. Please see the disclaimer at the bottom of the story. Thank you, and please be cautious with all treatments. 

In April 2014, I was prescribed seven days of Ciprofloxacin (2 X 500mg) for a possible urinary infection.  At 53, I was in great health, eating very well, going on many vigorous hikes, and taking exercise classes.

If I knew at the beginning of this rather awful adventure what I know now, I am convinced I would not have sustained so much damage. I am also convinced that if I had not taken full control of my own health as it got worse, I would now be on disability. But, one year later, I am mostly recovered, stable as long as take my supplements, and feel 80 to 90% of my past fit self. I am not sure if I will reach complete recovery. That’s OK. I am happy to be able to once again hike for miles, even if I’m not going up big hills with a backpack.

There is an additional sadness in this for me, as I relived some of my father’s suffering. Even though my family eventually (and too late) connected Cipro to my father’s devastating peripheral neuropathy, we had not realized that it also probably contributed to a number of his final health problems, including heart failure. I had forgotten the name of his antibiotic, or I never would have taken it. I guess I’m living proof that Cipro reactions may have a genetic cause.

The first day, my heart pounded loudly when I went for my noon-hour walk. I shrugged it off, as it reminded me of how my heart races during hot flashes. On the fourth day, my jaw got misaligned after eating popcorn and I realized I was unexplainably depressed. On the fifth day, my shoulder collapsed painfully when I put weight on it as I shifted seats in the car, and on the sixth day, when I wrung out a dishcloth, my right wrist tendon hurt excruciatingly. I finally clued in, stopped Cipro a day early, and started online research. What a horrible thing to find out that fluoroquinolone damage can be cumulative and symptoms were likely to grow in number and intensity! And, like so many others who do not have robust DNA damage repair mechanisms, that is exactly what happened to me.

TENDONS, LYMPH GLANDS, HEARBURN, NERVES: During week 1 and 2 (post drug) I had my first “set’ of symptoms. My initial tendon damage worsened to the point I could no longer play the cello, write properly, or open heavy doors without re-damaging the tendons. This was combined with episodes of tingling rushes and numbness running down my arms and into my hands and very occasionally my legs. My arms would feel weak and disconnected, so I would swing them around to make them feel “alive.” My research showed this could be a side effect of swollen tendons manifesting itself as thoratic outlet syndrome, but also reading that Cipro attaches to the GABA A receptors, I realized it might actually be nerve damage. These symptoms lessened within weeks, but did not completely disappear for many months.

I went for a massage and although it felt wonderful, this worsened things within the hour. I now realize it released toxins from my muscles were holding into my blood stream so my body reacted.

Other symptoms included very swollen lymph glands, especially behind my ears and in my armpits. Often, I could not close my jaw properly as the swelling behind my ears threw my jaw slightly out of alignment. This, and some heartburn, also gradually subsided over the next few months.

I feel fortunate that the temporary depression I experienced, while taking the drug, lifted and did not return. I know that alternations in cognitive and emotional states are very common for those that are “floxed.” The life-saving value of fluoroquinolones is due to their ability to permeate every cell in the body, including the brain, which is why, for those who react, it can create incredible damage in any number of organs. My most vulnerable organ was my heart, and this started to take most of my attention…

CHEST PAINS, HEART ARRYTHMIA, HEART POUNDING: The intermittent chest pains, which I had tried not to notice earlier, suddenly worsened at week 2 and worsened again at week 3. My blood pressure went sky high for a day or two and I ended up at the doctor’s office with what felt like a 20-pound weight on my chest, and my heart pounding so loudly I could feel the pulse in my toes. My doctor had known me for decades and agreed I was experiencing a drug reaction. After a few tests provided no enlightenment, she suggested I go to emergency if things got worse, and realizing she did not have the tools to help me, supported my idea of seeing a naturopath. I live in Canada, so do not pay for medical tests, although I do pay for a naturopath. That evening, I drove to emergency, as my heart seemed to be revving out of control. Emergency doctors smirked at my assurance my symptoms were caused by Cipro, and although the tests they chose confirmed non-life-threatening arrhythmia and high blood pressure, there were no other points of concern. I was relieved and frustrated in equal amounts. This is when I decided to start taking control – I bought a blood pressure cuff to monitor my own blood pressure and was pleased to see it soon dropped.

UPPER ABDOMINAL PAIN, UPPER CHEST PAIN, UPPER BACK PAIN, INTERNAL TREMORS, DRY SKIN:  Along with my heart symptoms, I started experiencing upper abdominal discomfort, along with upper chest and upper back pressure/tightness/pain that would increase through the day. The upper abdomen pains went away over the next few months and, in retrospect, I think the cause was likely a compromised liver. However, my whole chest circumference continued to feel fragile and the constriction of wearing a bra around the ribs felt damaging.  A year later, my best guess is that this is costochondritis (inflammation of rib cartilage) combined with myofascial pain, and I still suffer from it, but less.

At week 3, I started having some “whirring” internal tremors which, although occasional, were disturbing. It felt like electrical synapses were misfiring. These gradually disappeared after month 6.

I also became aware that my skin was extremely dry – that there were some rough scaly patches on my arms and even on my face. Initially, I couldn’t care less, as my other symptoms took precedence, but eventually I bit the end off my CoQ10 (lipid) capsule and put a drop or two in my moisture cream, and this really seemed to help.

GETTING WORSE – HEART AND FATIGUE:  Between week 3 and month 6 my heart gradually became worse and fatigue set in, with symptoms worsening through the day. Not only did my heart seem to pound, shaking the whole chest so I could not sleep on my left side or back, but unless I was being slightly active (walking) the beats were WAY out of time, bouncing all over the place, and I had a couple 30 minute periods of tachycardia.

I saw the naturopath and in addition to Omega 3, Vitamin C and D, Calcium/Mag, I started CoQ10, some Magnesium, and B vitamins. I also started some homeopathic UNDA remedies which I later dropped.

CYCLING OF SYMPTOMS: It took a while to realize that all the symptoms went in a 6 to 10 day cycle – from almost not present to overwhelming. This was very confusing to me and health care providers, because each time I improved, I hoped I had healed permanently. One year later, the cycle has faded away.

FOOD AND BOOZE: I’ve always eaten very well, but I wanted to maximize my chances of healing so moved towards a hunter/gatherer diet, eating lots of protein, nuts, vegetables and fruits. But, soon I had to add back whole-grain carbohydrates as I started losing weight. I also discovered that booze actually helped me. I began to dread evenings as symptoms would worsen. But I learned that when I started rocking in pain or worry and/or heart arrhythmia and pounding was at its maximum, one alcoholic drink would not only dull the pain, but actually calm down the symptoms too. It was actually quite miraculous. I know alcohol affects GABA receptors and that Cipro binds to them, so maybe it calmed some form of Cipro overdrive. I don’t know, but I know it helped me when I needed it.

TAKING MORE CONTROL:  At month 2, I had a day of reckoning, where I realized my heart was giving out unless I did something! It was frightening realization that I had to count on only myself and yet I was no expert. So, I wrote an email to my friends/family to send me strength and decided I would have become an expert as far as I could. It is interesting to think back on where I was psychologically at that point. I live on my own, and had no-one to either assist me or listen to my worries day to day. I also needed to continue working as I am the sole wage-earner. I have lots of people that love me, but it was hard to reach out to friends and family when you don’t want to worry them, or pressure them with more than they can handle. Besides, how could I ask them to believe what was going on in me, when I could hardly believe it myself, and I did not have the backing of some doctor’s prognosis? I had to be strong. I had to find the compromise between just maintaining forward motion for survival, but also taking full control of my own healing. Some days it felt like I was limping forward like an injured animal not being able to intellectualize what was going on, but just getting through the day so I could go back to sleep to make it go away. But, I knew my only way to heal was to find my own research and cure, and would spend two or three hours a day on the computer, digging past all the worries and hype to scientific studies.

I was determined not to take any other drugs unless I absolutely had to. This means I went against the suggestions of some friends, who advised I go to cardiologists and other specialists, but I did not want to prompt test results that might dictate a cocktail of more pharmaceutical drugs. My experience in emergency taught me not only how the medical system was not attuned to Cipro toxicity, but that I was in no immediate danger – I was not going to have a heart attack. I was convinced Cipro broke one or more chemical reactions in my body by removing core components and I needed to focus on adding back into my system what might have been removed or damaged by Cipro, and I would reconsider tests at the end of whatever healing process I could manage.

My first “aha” moment came when my research discovered a chronic fatigue specialist, Dr. Myhill, who connected symptoms, exactly the same as mine, to mitochondrial failure. I then googled Cipro and mitochondria and discovered that yes, Cipro and other fluoroquinolones cause mitochondrial dysfunction, and subsequent Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) overproduction which damages DNA, protein, and lipid damage and cellular death. Dr. Myhill said that the heart is 40% by weight mitochondria because it needs to produce a lot of energy, and if the mitochondria cannot work efficiently, it simply cannot pump through enough blood. Chest pain results when energy delivery to the muscles is impaired. There is a switch to anaerobic metabolism, lactic acid is produced and this results in the symptom of angina.  She recommended certain supplements to improve mitochondrial energy output which I then found replicated by some forward-thinking cardiologists. I started on D-Ribose, L-Carnitine and already was taking CoQ10 (see the SUPPLEMENT section below). Fifteen minutes after the D-ribose, I felt tingling all through my heart like cells were waking up. And so they were.

CURING THE OXIDATIVE MESS: Although my heart seemed a bit better, the fatigue did not lift. At this point I was bad enough to be on disability as I felt I was doing some damage if I pushed myself past standing up for 10 minutes, walking more than 50 paces, and napped every few hours. I think I was in some form of denial so I could allow myself to simply continue. When I was offered a more interesting job in a different town, I moved. In retrospect, I realize I was not really strong enough.

By the month 3, I was desperate. Through my research I realized that the “vicious cycle” of mitochondrial damage and oxidative stress makes it so that damage is accelerated as time goes on, and even though I was probably helping my heart make energy, there was too much accumulated mess for it to work. I found out that glutathione is the master naturally-occurring antioxidant in the body, and that if you naturally have low glutathione, or it is completely compromised by toxic overload, your body cannot complete the energy-producing methylation cycle properly, or regulate a variety of cell stresses. I read that NAC (N-acetyl-cysteine) is the most important building block of glutathione and so started this as well as quality whey protein powder which is high in all the specific amino acids which are precursors to glutathione production. It didn’t work. I was fortunate to talk to a local natural supplement guru, who explained that if my methylation cycle was actually broken (forced to use an inefficient workaround), I would need to actually take the glutathione itself. He also found me a source of liposomal glutathione, a less expensive alternative to an IV of glutathione, which until recently was the only other format that would ensure absorption. I started it gradually as I read that releasing the toxins from their hiding places in your body can cause what is known as a herxheimer-type reaction, where the body reacts to the rise in mobile toxins by becoming unwell, before it can clear them and get better. I temporarily became really unwell, but I promised myself I would stay the course for two weeks, at which time I definitely started to improve. I continued to persevere and starting month 4, my energy returned and symptoms decreased. Finally!

I started focussing on why I might have had a reaction, taking methylated forms of folate and B12 in order to support a possible MTHFR gene mutation.

EXERCISE: I have always tried to “hike” out my problems. When I was first compromised, I tried to push my body too hard. It seemed there was always strength in the moment, and even though I felt a tenuous warning from within, I did not listen. As with chronic fatigue patients, the effects of overextension are felt with a crash the next day. However, as I gradually improved, I started pushing my body, which used to be very capable, to do what it was supposed to do, hoping to gently stress the mitochondria into better production, without creating more oxidative stress by overextending. At first I followed 10 minutes of an exercise video or took a 10-minute walk every day, but by month 5, I progressed to a one-hour exercise class or a 5km hike.

YAY MAGNESIUM! By the month 9 my fatigue was lifting, but my heart was beating way out of rhythm much of the time. I knew that the magnesium I was taking was minimal, although any more caused diarrhea. It wasn’t until I heard the Floxie Hope podcast with Ruth Young that I realized I needed to force my body to take more magnesium because it is an essential part of transporting electrolytes that regulate heart rhythm. I send away for magnesium threonate because it absorbs so well (avoiding diarrhea) and is especially effective in reaching the mitochondria inside cells, and magnesium oil, which I have been spraying on my skin ever since. Within a couple of weeks, my heart pounding and my arrhythmia was incredibly improved! The mag threnoate made my dreams go incredibly vivid, and as I improved, it seemed to keep me awake at night, so now I only take it in the morning. I stopped taking calcium I had been on for years as it can prevent magnesium absorption and I continued to perfect my mixture of supplements, adding MitoQ, PQQ and R+ Alpha Lipoic Acid (see SUPPLEMENT section below).

Then, I became a little overconfident, allowing my glutathione supplement to tail off. Within a month or so, I started regressing, and realized the cause. Even though my methylation cycle was operating, it still needed an outside source of glutathione to work properly. Instead of more liposomal glutathione, I decided to try NAC and quality whey, and this time, they brought my health up again in a few days. This means my methylation cycle is still compromised, and not crashed – a cause for celebration.

NOW, AT ONE YEAR: Healing is slow, but steady. I figure I am 80-90% better but realize I may always need to continue taking some supplements to maintain optimal health. I am more careful with myself. I nap when I need it, I don’t have more than two drinks, I alternate physical days with non-physical days, I eat mostly whole foods and I will pull away from stress overload. I still have some heart issues such as mild arrhythmia and on days where I overextend, the heart “thumps” a little too loudly. I chose to go for an echocardiogram and it shows my heart has stretched in places: my left atrium has a little dilation and I have mild mitral regurgitation. I don’t know if this is reversible or not, but I’m OK, and will be re-tested. Recently, I started feeling I actually had more energy than I needed when I was walking and this made me feel very joyful. I am walking up to 10 km, and I almost feel ready to try climb a hill or two.

The tendons in my right arm and my shoulders still feel shortened and I baby them a little, but they are not stopping any form of exercise. My muscles, except my heart, feel as strong as they ever were.

I still have upper torso discomfort appear many days, and now the constochondritis seems to also be affecting the cartilage around my trachea.  I focus on relaxing, breathing deeply, and it lessens. However, my upper back is tight with muscle knots, so every day I do some stretches and some strength exercises, as keeping active reduces the discomfort.  I don’t worry though – I know that I have now given my body everything I can to help it heal almost anything and I believe it is and it will. Patience.

WHAT I WISH I KNEW THEN:  I would suggest anyone taking any fluoroquinolone drug also take NAC as studies show it can prevent the resulting oxidative damage. I would also suggest that they take magnesium at a different time of the day to the drug and for a couple of months afterwards, in the best form they can find.

If someone becomes “floxed”, I would suggest they immediately go on supplements for mitochondrial health and liposomal glutathione (see SUPPLEMENTS section below) to see if they could prevent further damage.

FINAL THOUGHTS: I believe we have to stop expecting healthcare providers to be well-versed in the exact area of science our own body problem requires. This is because there is only so much each healthcare provider has the ability to assimilate, especially with internet information explosion. The way western medicine is set up, GPs are overwhelmed, trying to filter out who they should forward to a specialist, and specialists are more than likely to be only investigating one isolated part of the body, unlikely to piece together the systemic puzzle. Even the health care providers that do view the whole body, such as naturopaths, functional specialists, or doctors of diseases such as chronic fatigue, are not always able to benefit from each other’s insight.

Since the middle of the last century, our western society has been brain-washed into trusting science implicitly. But, science is an imprecise art. Just because something is discovered and given a name, does not mean its mechanism is understood. So much cannot yet be detected. But, nevertheless, the majority of our society expects a “scientific” drug to cure their every little problem. Very unfortunately, this has given the pharmaceutical industry almost infinite control to supply hope in bottles, whether it is effective or damaging. Even if science may strive to better our health, pharmaceutical companies strive to better their profits. And doctors, who we count on, have no choice but to rely on regulators persuaded by this multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry.

As drug consumers, we also need to realize drugs and even some “natural” cures work by shifting our body chemistry. Sometimes there is a miraculous cure, but often, the consequence of the shift is not considered. For instance, Acetaminophen reduces intracellular glutathione levels, which is also essential to remove toxins from your body.

We need to help facilitate information exchange between doctors, patients, and researchers. It is hard to question doctors. But we are each a specialist in observing our own bodies, and if our own precious health or life is compromised, we have a huge incentive to pull together research which might be valuable to all. I encourage others who have been “floxed” to document their symptoms, research, and cures in a way that is accessible to the medical community. It gives credibility to walk into a doctor’s office with a report, even if you are the author, and also facilitates the gathering of data for studies. I started my report in order to fulfill the “tell it on your own words” needs of the University of California, San Diego, School of Medicine “Fluoroquinolone Effects Study” (www.fqstudy.info) and then used it for Health Canada Adverse Reaction reporting, and after seeing my report, geneticists in British Columbia, where I live, referred me to be part of a University of BC study on Adverse Drug Reactions.

I have conducted over 400 hours of research on my symptoms and Cipro. On this Floxie Hope website, Lisa has gathered extensive of resources, so I see little point in listing my own. However, I’d like to mention one more I stumbled upon recently as it gathers tons of research about MITOCHONDRIA and how they work and what to do when they don’t in a very comprehensive and easy-to-read way. http://www.knowmitochondria.com/. The author, Lee Know, includes a section on why mitochondrial damage causes each symptom, what supplements are indicated, and why. Note: Although the author has not listed fluoroquinolones in the long table he supplies in his section on “Medication induced mitochondrial damage and disease,” I have been in contact with him and he is in absolute agreement.

I’ve been fascinated by what I’ve discovered, but because it is not mainstream, I’ve found I need to be careful when discussing it with those who are invested in traditional medical solutions. I’ve discovered energy production by the mitochondria is a foundation for health and well-being, and necessary for physical strength, stamina and even consciousness. This means that mitochondrial health is vital to every organ and body function and nurturing this process may in fact allow each our organs the best chance to heal their own imbalances. Compromised mitochondrial function is now seen as one of the leading causes of a wide range of seemingly unconnected degenerative diseases such as chronic fatigue syndrome, depression, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, Huntington’s, fibromyalgia, cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, mitochondrial disease, infertility, some eye and hearing-related diseases, cancer, autism and more. And it should also be no surprise that a drug that compromises mitochondria, such as Cipro, is beginning to be implemented in actually prompting all the above listed diseases.

I’ve also discovered that each of our genetic makeup predisposes us to a differing set of set of potential ailments and these may or may not be realized. We may ride out these instabilities without symptoms, or they may be triggered by life, by stress, accumulated toxins, or by, in the instance of Cipro, an imposed chemical imbalance. I can’t help wondering if all the accumulated toxins from food additives, drugs, pesticides, and a huge number of industrial contaminants are shifting the point of balance in each of us closer to the tipping point. According to Lee Know “the field of mitochondrial medicine is exploding, with over 200 to 300 related studies been published each week.” It is too bad there is not an adequate mechanism for this information to reach the frontline healthcare providers.

I’m not yet sure what genetic tendency Cipro might have triggered in me – although I believe it is some ingredient in methylation, where the cell’s mitochondria DNA takes raw chemistry and turns it into energy. It could be that I have a genetic tendency to not metabolize folate well (MTHFR gene) or make glutathione efficiently. Or, it may be that I had already reduced the magnesium in my body to such a low level through the use of year so heavy-duty calcium supplements because extra calcium washes away magnesium. I have some genetic testing booked. I’m not sure if it will find what kind of strange thing happened to my body, but I’m just pleased my experience has been recorded to help build the body of science. And I’ve found one advantage: all these supplements have improved my brain function – I feel it works as well as it did when I was in my 20’s!

SUPPLEMENTS:

To support mitochondrial health – essential:

  • D-ribose – the raw energy every living thing makes in our cells – New Roots makes it at a reasonable price
  • L-Carnitine – I take both acetyl-L-carnitine and L-carnitine, because the first is best for your brain/nerves and the second for your heart, but either will do (reasonably priced)
  • CoQ10 – this can be expensive because you need top quality. I use a Thorne Q-best which is oil-based

To support mitochondrial health – good:

  • MitoQ – only one source, from New Zealand and expensive. But it is COQ10 altered to enter mitochondria more efficiently, so you can substitute it for some/all of above CoQ10
  • PQQ – a moderately-priced newish B vitamin that may help mitochondria replicate
  • R+ Alpha Lipoic Acid – moderately priced. Be sure you get the R+ version

To support oxidative mess:

  • Liposomal glutathione (you could use IV gluthione as well) -this is if your body is quite compromised. Other forms don’t absorb. Expensive but well worth it.
  • NAC (N-acetyl-cysteine) – If you’re not as compromised but need some detox. It is a glutathione precursor
  • Whey protein – only use high quality, from cows raised without antibiotics! Contains all glutathione precursor amino acids

Additional oxidative stress help:

  • Omega 3
  • Vitamin C
  • (Vitamin E)

Other essential supplements

  • D3
  • Magnesium – ESSENTIAL! Cipro robs you of this. Magnesium threonate is easily and quickly absorbed into the mitochondria and brain. Magnesium oil is also quickly absorbed. Magnesium bisglycinate is excellent but did not work well for me

To support a body that MAY have been compromised by the MTHFR gene problems:

  • Methylated Folate (L-5-MTHR) and Methylated B12 (Methylcobalamin) – only a few companies make the methylated versions of these B vitamins. Ideally in a form with other B vitamins in a top quality B complex such as Thorne Stress B or AOR Advanced B Complex.

To support absorption and processing of everything:

  • Probiotics

 

** The story above is truthful, accurate and told to the best of the ability of the writer. It is not intended as medical advice. No person who submits his or her story, nor the people associated with Floxie Hope, diagnoses or treats any illness. The story above should not be substituted for professionally provided medical advice. Please consult your doctor before trying anything that has been mentioned in this story, or in any other story on this site. Please also note that people have varying responses to the treatments mentioned in each story. What helps one person may not help, and may even hurt, another person. It is important that you understand that supplements, IVs, essential oils, and all other treatments, effect people differently depending on the millions of variables that make each of us unique. Please use appropriate caution and prudence, and get professional medical advice.

341 thoughts on “Bronwen’s recovery story – The “heart” of Cipro toxicity

  1. Genevieve June 20, 2017 at 7:35 am Reply

    Hi L, I have been slowly having my amalgam fillings removed by a holistic dentist who does it very carefully. If you do remove them, be sure to do it that way. As for the supplements, I think there is a variety of factors to consider. I have a double MTHFR gene mutation that makes it hard for me to filter heavy metals and toxins, etc, so I take extra caution with some supplements, including alpha lipoic acid and glutathione. You might want to have the MTHFR test done, which you can do with a blood test. Knowing my result has helped me to better understand what to avoid or be careful with, diet and supplement-wise. Doctors and dentists I’ve seen, even ‘good’ ones, seem to know very little about supplements, I notice. But one integrative doctor I saw did know about being careful with alpha lipoic acid if one has amalgams. The most helpful supplements for me right now are magnesium, ubiquionol CoQ10, Buffered vitamin C and vitamin D3. And because I have the gene mutation, I also take methly B12 and methyl folate supplements to help with my detoxing.

    • L June 20, 2017 at 10:11 am Reply

      yes, I only see a Huggins-trained dentist. I am very claustrophobic and so that is part of the problem. They have to use that dam, and then tubes in the nose, and for me to do that I would likely need to be “out” so I figure I wait until one gets bad and then do them all at once. And I did have blood testing done—I am optimal on one MTHFR and not on another, so not sure what that means in terms of the supplements. I had over 20 pushes of glutathione and it only seemed to help. I was on ALA and don’t recall having an issue. Jeez, why couldn’t I have been a chemist!?

    • Jason June 22, 2017 at 5:55 am Reply

      Genevieve, glad to see you have dug deeper and zeroed in on some more “accurate” information, than what many of the “main stream” people in the Alternative Medicine World are ignorantly promoting including most of the “good Doctors”.

      Note that MTHFR has been made into a much bigger deal than it really is, people generally have trouble detoxing because of the Heavy Metals and what they do in the body, not due to MTHFR, it is a compounding program that gets progressively worse.

      Note also that Glut and ALA are not just issues when you have fillings (but even more so yes, ALA especially can pull Mercury right from the filling and deposit it in your brain, I’ve seen many many cases of this, glad you found someone educated on this danger) but without them as well (see last page).

      Good healing to you, Jason

    • J November 13, 2017 at 10:01 am Reply

      Hi Genevieve,

      I also have the MTHFR mutations and take the methyl B12 and folate,
      I wonder in what other ways to detox heavy metals, I had my amalgams removed 2 years ago. Just wanted to ask you in what ways you detox, do you use sauna?
      And what heavy metal testing did you find helpful? Did you ever do hair analysis?

  2. Nicole Reedy June 23, 2017 at 2:20 pm Reply

    Hi L, Bronwen & Genevieve,

    So happy to see how well you are L and how much glut helped you as it saved me from the liver damage I was told it would take over a year to maybe recovery from in a few months. Not only on my blood work but the ultrasound of my liver that had been a crinkled mess! I also had no problem with ALA. I really believe the mag. has done so much as well.

    The most important thing is to have a good positive frame of mind and not let anything or anyone put you in fear!!!!

    Congrats on doing so well L and Genevieve you know what you mean to me!

    And Bronwen, you are the heart and soul of using your intelligence and research to help others along the way. So happy things are looking great for you. You deserve it for bearing the Yukon if nothing else! Lol

    Hugs,

    Nicole

  3. Melanie June 24, 2017 at 8:36 pm Reply

    What a veritable treatise !
    I am overjoyed with hope that I won’t have to go through what you’ve been going through. I’m almost 67, and for most of my life have turned to herbs & nutrition, fresh food, juicing, fasting for health, etc, but the last ten years I lost my vigilance. I had a huge amount of stress, and lost my footing.

    So with recurring annual mystery “flu’s”
    I wound up taking a lot of antibiotics.
    Yesterday I was given Levaquin- I took the 2nd pill tonite just before finding your incredibly enlightening information.
    Needless to say, within 15 minutes I had gulped down NAC, magnesium, and even calcium, because I read it blocks the “flox” .
    Unfortunately I also read that Vit C potentiates most antibiotics, and I was going for 8- 10,000 today before pill time, to feel like I was ok to not take it.
    So I guess more magnesium is in order.

    And I was 25 years a licensed health care provider, can you believe it!
    I felt like herbs stopped working on me, which doesn’t really make sense..
    I’ve mostly been using homeopathy but now after reading your in depth study, I feel I have to stay true to my original credo.

    I can’t find the words to thank you enough for publishing your research to the public forum.

    One of my teachers is a naturopath if significant renown, in Vancouver.
    Perhaps you are there.

    • Nicole June 24, 2017 at 9:21 pm Reply

      Melanie,
      I am 66 and got floxed 16 months ago very badly. I have done all the supplements Bronwen suggested and did Myers with glutathione IV’s.
      The first Cipro destroyed my liver and a stupid ER doc double dosed me with Avelox and left me on it for 10 days. My life has been turned upside down with side affects but I keep working hard.
      My son told a walk in clinic dr what happened to me and he would not that the Cipro she wanted him to have. So she gave him the same FQ you just took and he had taken two pills also before he realized it was another FQ. We got him right to a NP and he was IV’ed with Myers, mag. & glutathione and has been fine. I think you probably caught it in time.
      I will thinking positive thoughts for you.
      I do live in Vancouver.
      Nicole

    • Bronwen June 24, 2017 at 9:49 pm Reply

      So glad you came upon this site, Melanie. I hope and believe you are very likely to be fine too. NAC and magnesium are the perfect tools to counteract any potential damage.

  4. melanie July 2, 2017 at 9:41 am Reply

    Thank you for the responses, and votes of confidence, Bronwen and Nicole!
    My invisible friends ! What a relief , that’s over with. Two days ago had my first IV Myer’s
    w/Glutathione which was relaxing and pleasant, and may do again but perhaps I was
    expecting more results. Or maybe all the nutrient got sucked into the black holes of my
    dehydrated, degraded cellular matrix. . . Im going to stock up on Bronwen’s supp list.

    Now that I know about “floxes” I will be informing all doctors I see, and plan on also mentioning it to our local pharmacist. Its so frightening that they dont know these things!
    Especially in the ER !!! (Nicole!)

    But Im wondering if there are any “good” antibiotics, if I need them ? The “Z-pack” is prescribed a lot but doesn’t seem particularly efficacious. After I stopped the Levaquin, I took to putting straight Oregano Oil onto the back of my throat + upper palate right on the area that felt like the origin of the problem, it burned but it also put the fire out.

    Last year I had the same weird throat/neck/sinus thing, and was given Cefdinir, which did the job and no side-effects, for the record.

    Thanks again, and Good will to all.

    • L July 2, 2017 at 9:59 am Reply

      IVs work cumulatively. I have now had over 80 (I am a special case and you certainly would not need that many). I would not expect to notice anything from one. Talk to your practitioner about how many they think you would need to help. As for antibiotics I think amoxicillin is maybe your best bet, but I would try natural alternatives first. You mention oil of oregano…which is great. I used it for colds, flu, sinus issues. Four drops under the tongue, hold for about 10 seconds, add a bit of water and swallow. I do that 3-4 x a day at the first sign of being sick.

      During the really bad part of my floxing I went to the ER when I just couldn’t take the pain anymore, and like all the other doctors I saw, looked at me like I had 3 heads when I said it was from the Cipro. (I ended up leaving without anything when they insisted on doing a lot of tests I didn’t want.) It is appalling, considering the millions who have been injured, that doctors and pharmacists are so ill informed. Maybe enough lawsuits will get their attention.

  5. Deb August 27, 2017 at 2:54 pm Reply

    Bronwen,

    Did you take magnesium threonate and magnesium malate on the same day? I just received the magnesium threonate, and the dosage is thee capsules (144 mg. total) daily which I started two days ago. Before I started the magnesium threonate, I was taking 425 mg. of magnesium malate. I don’t take both of them. I think you said you take 500 mg. of magnesium daily. Do you take both malate and threonate daily as it looks like you like both of them and it would seem in order to 500 mg. daily you would need something besides the magnesium threonate?

    I am also going to try the NAC. Did you take that with the whey protein or separately?

    I took liposomal glutathione for a couple of years and just forgot to order it a few months ago. So I wasn’t taking it when I took the Levaquin a couple of months ago. I had no problems at all with the glutathione and I have amalgam fillings. It could be different now that I had a reaction to Levaquin, but I would like to see if the NAC and whey protein are helpful first.

    Thanks much for sharing what helped you on your journey, your positive attitude, and glad you are doing so well!

    Deb

    • Bronwen Duncan August 27, 2017 at 3:23 pm Reply

      Hi Deb: I take both Mag threonate and malate each day. It is the total amount of elemental magnesium which should add up to whatever your body can tolerate. THe elemental amount of mag is not always obvious on the packaging – some companies list it and some don’t. For instance, my mag malate is 793mg, but the elemental magnesium in this is 100mg, and the rest is the malic acid portion. If you are already taking 425 elemental mag per day, then I would take 144mg from mag threonate and just 300mg from mag malate so it totals what your body is used to, and then if you want to take more up it slowly. When I took the most, I took 144mg threonate and 400 malate per day and now I’m better, I have to admit I’m still take most of this. However, I had to start with a much lower dose for my body to be able to handle it, and as written in my story, I had to persuade it first through the use of mag oil and epsom salts.

      I took both NAC and whey protein together and see no reason not too. They both boost glutathione production in different ways.

      I should probably add another chapter to my story now I’m healed, mentioning the things I found that helped later on: Iodine drops (it will replace the flouride which may be poisoning your system – but need to work up VERY slowly on this), and Collagen (from fish scales).

      Best of luck.
      Bronwen

    • clockkicker November 4, 2017 at 4:24 am Reply

      Deb,
      Did you end up trying the glut again since being floxed? I’m curious because I have many amalgam fillings and am worried to take it. Best wishes to you

      • L November 4, 2017 at 9:19 am Reply

        hi there…I recently had my amalgams removed. BUT prior to then, I got a push of glutathione with at least 30 IVs, and no problem. I know some on her have said they had trouble with glut but I think it only helped

      • Deb November 6, 2017 at 5:51 am Reply

        Hi,
        I haven’t taken the glutathione yet.

  6. Deb August 27, 2017 at 3:55 pm Reply

    Bronwen,

    I saw where you took the TruMarine collagen–is that the collagen that helped? I went to their website but would need to register to get more information. I believe it has amino acids. Did you take that while you took the protein powder since it has amino acids also? Do you remember the approximate cost of the TruMarine and how long you took it and how did it help you?

    I also saw where you took a progressive harmonized protein from a Canadian company. Is there a brand in the U.S. that you would recommend?

    Also, at what point in your recovery did you decide you needed the iodine? And what brand did you use and how did you work up slowly?

    How did you keep your spirits up–trying all these supplements can be overwhelming?

    Sorry for so many questions but thanks again!

    Deb

    • Bronwen Duncan August 27, 2017 at 5:22 pm Reply

      Hi Deb: I don’t think you have to register to get more information on the Canadian site which is at https://withinus.ca/products/collagen-powder Here is some info on fish collagen: https://draxe.com/fish-collagen/

      Progressive Harmonized Protein is available through the US through Amazon. I like it because it is from antibiotic free sources and they add other synergistic supplements too. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=progressive+harmonized+protein

      I didn’t start the iodine until 6 months ago because I didn’t really come across it as a potential helper until then, which is more than 2.5 years after I took cipro. I believe it really helped solidify what seemed to be a tentative place of healing. Now my resilience seems to be back – I don’t crash if I overdue things or use my endurance hard for a few days. The body reads both iodine (and bromine) as iodine – they are beside each other in the periodic table, and by taking iodine, you can gradually remove flouride, however, it definitely detoxs and causes herxing, therefore if you are wanting add iodine to your supplements, I would be very cautious – just a very little, and please do your own research before following anything that worked for me. There is much controversy over iodine, but from my reading it seems like the daily recommended amount is based on faulty ancient studies, and the Japanese eat more than 80 times more than Americans and seem fine. Most people take Lugols iodine which is quite concentrated. I decided to take Genestra’s liquid iodine (which is from seaweed and less concentrated) and very gradually (over 3 months) went from 500mcg to 3 mg (20 drops a day).

      How did I keep my spirits up? I didn’t always. Some evenings, in particular, were dark. I would call my brother if I had to talk to someone, and then drown out worries and feelings with a beer (I live with no one except a cat), watch a video and then be pleased to just temporarily shut down consciousness in bed. THen it would be a new day, and I’d start trying to find things around me that were beautiful so I could enjoy moments – whether a person’s kindness, or a flower, or sitting by the sea. It was very very hard, but as I gradually healed past the 9 month mark I knew I would be OK, and then eventually I knew I’d be stronger in a different way than ever before. Although my health may be a touch less than it once was all the suffering was impetus to live more fully. I’m embracing life more fully, taking adventures and doing what I feel is important in life. That is the positive that came out of the harrowing experience.

      • Deb August 27, 2017 at 6:39 pm Reply

        Thanks so much Bronwen for your time and so much information! I started the magnesium malate about three weeks ago and immediately could tell a difference. It hasn’t been consistent though. I started looking at the Floxiehope website and got more information on helpful supplements. I am slowly adding vitamin d, vitamin e, probiotics, turmeric, CoQ10, magnesium threonate over the last several days just to see what helps and I really don’t know. I was actually taking all of these supplements (except the threonate plus a few more) before I started the antibiotics. I thought I should stop while on the antibiotics and since I had a reaction I didn’t start back. I know the magnesium made a difference since it was the only thing I took initially. I did feel better Friday and yesterday after the magnesium threonate. I will do more research on the iodine. Do you actually take the iodine orally or do you put it on your skin?

        I know recovery is a day-by-day process and being positive and patient helps even though it’s not always easy to do. Thanks for your words of encouragement and sharing the positive you got from this difficult experience! Have a great Sunday evening!

        Deb

        • Bronwen Duncan August 27, 2017 at 7:39 pm

          It sounds like you knew how to boost your body before this happened, so better equipped now. Iodine you take orally.

          Wishing you healing!
          Bronwen

  7. Gur Singh September 9, 2017 at 11:55 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen,

    Thanks for putting it all together and providing all this information. Just going to share my floxed story briefly (if I may). I was ‘floxed’ close to three months ago and for about two months, I was in a wheelchair/complete bedrest. Took Cipro 500×3 and that was it. The first pill caused nausea/vomiting, the second sent a heat wave down my legs and to the Achilles, the third send heat wave/excruciating pain down my lower back. The pharmacist had no clue but I stopped it. For about a month, I went through sooooo many things/feelings/pains/sensations/cramping/spasms/crazy heart pounding/blurry eyes/heat waves/ringing etc etc etc…and that all of the body organs were involved. The whole experience was so overwhelming and so much was happening that I was hard to even remember what was happening/timeline.Went through ER many times (in Ontario), and got no help at all.
    Finally, it occurred to me that I should turn to the internet and in a week or two on being internet, I stumbled upon your story (3-4 weeks ago from now). I am so glad that I did. You have done a tremendously good job of putting it all together so succinctly that it really helps. Of course, I did my own ‘research’ as well, as I think all floxies should do anyway but I have followed your ‘protocol’ and for me it worked.
    Nonetheless, you saved me so much of my time and especially when I was in the ‘thick of things’. I am not still out at all, but a bit better. I still can’t use restroom at night as I have to massage my legs, slowly get off the bed to my office chair that I use as a wheelchair………
    The biggest problem for me is my inability to walk. For weeks now, I felt like I am standing on thousands of needle tips (won’t share more….).
    On a positive note, I have started taking a few steps very carefully after placing gel pads under my feet. My legs were severely cramped from hip down because they kept spasming for a week and nobody did a thing. I believe that have done the ‘damage’, however, the magnesium took most of it away almost immediately.
    Now, I have bad cramps and of course, my heels are extremely tender and I can’t finish a full step. As soon as I stand up, I ‘feel’ that my muscles pull on my tendons, cramps, and like swollen from inside (cant see much swelling outside though, its a feeling) I have to keep my heels to the grown and walk flat. Even my hips are messed up and constant sitting did more damage. Visiting a naturopath and he is suggesting IV glutathione. I have amalgam fillings and scared about that.
    However, the purpose of this comment is to first thank you so much!!!!(I have read your story over and over in those days when I turned to the internet because the supplements in your story gave me a start, a roadmap and I can’t thank you enough for it).
    Second, I have always been curious to know the following: the dosage of each of those supplements you took per day, the length of time you used them (even approximation), how did you space them out throughout the day, what more did you find out with time (in terms of should or shouldn’t have done when you look back, if anything). I did read in the previous comments on your post that you plan to keep taking some like whey protein (which makes sense) but I was curious about your initial scheduling, spacing, dosage etc.
    Please see if you can recall it. It would help to see what worked for you as I might be doing too much or too little. I try to stay close to recommended dosages on the labels. I kept wondering about it when I had no capacity to make a comment in the previous weeks, but now I can.
    (Again, thank you. Please do know that there are perhaps more like me out there, reading your posts laying in their beds unable to comment (or may not comment) but immensely appreciate your contribution. Not to mention, thanks to all the ‘floxies’ out there for sharing their experiences, we the newer floxies get tips from all previous floxies sharing their human experiences and see what may or may not work for each and everybody).

    • Gur Singh September 9, 2017 at 12:01 pm Reply

      Please excuse all the typos and mistakes.

      • Bronwen Duncan September 10, 2017 at 12:12 pm Reply

        Hi Gur:

        I am so glad that what I wrote helped you. Believe in your body to heal and be very patient. It is trying very hard and you have some tools to help. Everyone’s body is different, and everyone’s healing journey is different. I think whatever genetic or biochemistry balance (often connected!) we each have was the cause of having a much worse cipro reaction than most. However, it may be that we’ve all had a slightly different part of the biochemistry reaction chain compromised, so the best type and amount of supplements to heal may also vary by person. The best thing it to listen to your own body, because if upping the amount of a supplement starts improving a chemistry pathway (such as methylation) that has been compromised, it can also releases toxins that have built up and this can make the body react against them. So, slow and steady with all changes!

        Most important if you’ve been really compromised in my opinion are magnesium, MitoQ, a great B complex and some type of oxidative stress remover.

        Magnesium – As I wrote in my story my body needed it so badly to begin with it couldn’t really deal with it, and so I had to start with epsom salt baths and magnesium oil (spray) on the skin, graduating to Mag Malate and Mag Threonate. I started on 100mg malate and 50 mg Threonate, and very gradually worked up to 400-500mg malate and 100mg Threonate.

        MitoQ – I started with half dose, and then took 10mg.

        B complex – I would advise anyone to take the AOR advance B for the methylated forms of B12 and folate plus a well-balanced selection of all the other B vitamins. Thorne puts out a good one too but it is more expensive, and you can find the AOR, as you live in Canada.

        Oxidative stress – Whey is great as a glutathione precursor, but probably not enough on its own to deal with the oxidative stress in your body – think of it as an adjunct as it is much more gentle I think than either NAC or liposomal or IV glutathione. I have been having one scoop of Progressive Harmonized Protein a day for years, and started at that amount. As you are in Canada it should not be hard to find. I found NAC did not work until glutathione could clear off some of the oxidative stress first. THere is much controversy on this site about glutathione, but all I can say is it was essential to my healing. But again, we are all different so please read about the controversy in the comments on my page and in other stories too. I took 450mg of liposomal glutathione initially twice a day, cutting down to 250mg one a day after a few months. Then I moved to NAC which I took 1000mg a day and eventually half and then none.

        Possibly important is iodine – I don’t know as I got to it at year 3 in my healing and it seems to have been the final step. Iodine pushes out fluoride and if you are fluoride poisoned it may help. I started at 750mcg and now take 3mg where I may stay. Do your own reading on iodine as it too is controversial.

        I generally took half my supplements in the morning and half in the evening with the exception of MitoQ which was recommended for morning only and Mag Threonate which can make the mind active, which I also only took in the morning.

        For every other supplement, I did as you do – I followed the dosage on the labels and eventually cut down to half and then for many of them, dropped them off altogether very gradually, one by one. So, I no longer take CoQ10 or MitoQ, PQQ, L-Carnitine, D-ribose, Alpha Lipoic Acid, NAC, or Glutathione. I still take magnesium, Vit C, D, E, K2, Omega 3, iodine, pro-biotics, collagen, whey and AOR advanced B, and probably will for the rest of my life.

        I hoped this helped. I send you every healthy thought! And I’m so sorry you are going through this!

        Bronwen

        • Gur singh September 19, 2017 at 1:52 pm

          Hi Bronwen,

          Thank you so much for a detailed reply. Since I have been quite recently floxed, I had a quite rough week (with ER visits as new things popped up etc). I am not sure NAC is working for me either. I do take liposomal glutathione liquid 450mg twice a day. However, I am also thinking about getting IV glutathione. I take Magnesium (threonate and doctor’s best Mag), Co Q10, Mito Q, PQQ (sometimes), Acetyl L-cartinine (started recently), D-ribose (sometimes), Alpha Lipoic Acid (sometimes), Vit D, E, C, K2, probiotics,and collagen. I just feel awkward having had to gulp down a bunch of pills. I am on other medications as well for chronic conditions before being floxed, so I have to keep timing/interaction in mind. I had severe acidity problems before being floxed, now the whole digestion is messed up.
          Anyhow, again thanks for taking out time to write a detailed response. About Progressive Harmonized Protein(PHP) and I have been thinking about it as well. My question is related to the way this protein is made. The label of PHP says that its a ‘whey protein Isolate’ and as far as I have read, the isolation process denatures protein and compromises ingredients that are needed to make glutathione. I also read somewhere that the best whey protein supplements are that made through “native whey protein made by counter-flow technique”, however, I have been unsuccessful to find a whey protein powder that says it is made that way.
          Please share what is your opinion or research about this or any input if you can provide.
          I think I might have issue with iodine too because my throat keeps hurting (without any apparent cold etc.). I have been just taking a little bit of salt before going to bed or if it hurts more, however, i am going to order iodine as well because straight up salt is not good for BP. Doctors have no clue of anything that goes on with floxies.
          Thanks again.

        • L September 19, 2017 at 3:14 pm

          HI, just want to mention that digestion/stomach problems are major with these drugs. Please find a good multi-strain probiotic in the billions of units. (Refrigerated type usually best.)

        • Bronwen September 19, 2017 at 4:33 pm

          Hi again Gur:

          Don’t feel awkward about gulping down all the pills. There are many of us that are doing exactly the same thing. We have to try to straighten out our body chemistry somehow!

          I’m afraid I don’t have any knowledge about the “native whey protein made by counter-flow technique”. I expect at this more intense point in your healing, the glutathione is more important than whey (which is a glutathione booster) because you just need to turn around all the ROS build up in your body – your liver needs as much help as it can get.

          I would suggest sea salt, which is not iodized but has many minerals, and then, yes, a little iodine to start if you feel this is what you want to do with your own research.

          So sorry you’ve been in and out of hospital. It is a bumpy road, and it is sometimes only when you look back over a month or two that you see progress. But it is there.

          It sounds like your are really owning your healing and thinking through all options. I wish your strength and success will come – even if bit by bit.

          Bronwen

    • L September 9, 2017 at 12:05 pm Reply

      I had a lot of glutathione iv. And I have amalgams. I just had a holistic Dds (Huggins trained) remove two and getting the last removed in two weeks. You might want to start with a push of glutathione. It is just injected right in through a tube instead of a curtain v bag. Also NAC is a precursor to glutathione which you cN take in supplement form. Btw my body was also ravaged after just 3 pills of 500 cipro. I took a 4th not yet making the connection. However after going back over several years of pharmacy records I discovered o had taken moth cipro and levaquin before. I imagine that is when the damage actually started.

  8. Hameeda wingler September 11, 2017 at 3:07 am Reply

    I went through the same thing as you. I thought my doctor is trying to kill me she prescribed coprocessor for 10 days 2000 mg a day I was in emergency five times. I think this is how they make their money

  9. Genevieve September 12, 2017 at 9:55 am Reply

    Hello Bronwen, from where do you order your MitoQ? I want to get a very good one, but I’m not sure. Thank you!

    • Bronwen Duncan September 12, 2017 at 11:04 pm Reply

      Hi Genevieve:
      I believe there is only one company that makes MitoQ and it is in New Zealand and expensive. They discovered and own the process that makes it. https://www.mitoq.com/mitoq-5mg-capsules-60.html It seems you can also get their product on Amazon.

  10. Deb September 13, 2017 at 6:31 pm Reply

    Hi Bronwen,
    I get the liquid liposomal glutathione (by ReadiSorb) and work up to about a teaspoon a day beginning with one drop and increasing by one drop a day until I get a teaspoon. Did you ever try the liquid and if so what were your thoughts? It looks like you used the capsules. What brand capsules did you use? Thanks.
    Deb

    • Bronwen Duncan September 13, 2017 at 6:38 pm Reply

      Hi Deb – believe it or not the liposomal glutathione I got was compounded in a pharmacy that specialized in alternative treatments on Vancouver Island, BC (Canada). However, the owner struggled to make it so it would remain potent beyond a few weeks. This didn’t matter to me, as I was using up the bottles efficiently. When I started taking it – 3 years ago, there were not many suppliers, but there are many more now.

      Bronwen

  11. mee September 20, 2017 at 6:55 am Reply

    Hello Browen. Im having mostly tendon and joint pains and also twitching all over my body.. im not really sure what supplements are helping ..any suggestions?

    • Bronwen Duncan September 20, 2017 at 7:41 am Reply

      Hi Mee:

      So sorry you are going through this! I wrote a long explanation about the supplements I feel are most important just a few comments up on September 10, 2017 at 12:12 pm to Gur, so I hope you don’t mind me referring you to that post.

      I think the most important of all is probably magnesium (mag malate and mag threonate), MitoQ (although it is expensive, I believe it is really worth it), a good B vitamin complex with methylated forms of folate and B12 (Thorne puts out a good one as does AOR but maybe only in Canada) and then some way of clearing the oxidative stress from your body – see the post I mentioned for a paragraph of options.

      Healing takes time. Your body is trying hard, it just needs so pieces of chemistry it is missing to do the job. The hard thing is that when you do give your body what it desperately needs, it suddenly has more oxidative stress to clear up as the toxins “caught” in the tissues, gradually release, so gradually start any new supplement, building up slowly. I also think that you need to move those tendons too to keep the blood flowing into them with the nutrients they need and the ability to carry away oxidative mess. It is a very fine balance of just enough movement without too much. I’m stubborn and I’d push it too hard too fast. Listen to your body.

      Wishing you healing!
      Bronwen

      • mee September 20, 2017 at 8:32 am Reply

        thank you for the quick reply. I have already been taking chelated magnesium, cq10, pqq,vitamin d .. i actually stopped taking vitamin b complex since i read somewhere it would cause the tingling .. i have tingling in my head at times… I also have knee pain.. which aches most of the time. Ive been icing and putting magnesium oil which does help. Since taking the pill it has been three months.. i know time plays a crucial role. im really impatient.. i guess i will just have to be hopeful that in the upcoming days i will make a improvement .. recovery…

        • Nicole Reedy September 23, 2017 at 12:24 pm

          I am not sure why but my NP only took out vit. B6 in my IV as she said that was the B that can cause our tingling and burning.

        • mee September 25, 2017 at 10:00 am

          i think b12 is okay.. which i still take .. vitamin b-12 as methylcobalamin in 1,000 mcg..
          its entirely confusing in knowing which supplements are working … im actually just limiting my supplements and mostly just taking chelated mag ..do you still have the tingling? my is on and off and ive had it for about a month…

  12. Deb September 28, 2017 at 7:09 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen,
    When you took the liposomal glutathione at first you said you were really unwell. Did your current symptoms increase or did you get new ones or both? Thanks again. Deb

    • Bronwen Duncan September 28, 2017 at 7:22 am Reply

      Hi Deb. I believe my current symptoms increased, but just temporarily. The ROS or flouride or whatever it was that has been stuck in my tissues was beginning to mobilize with the help of the glutathione, so as the body started to detox, then it also reacted to having these toxins now circulating even if it was on the way out. This is known as a herxheimer reaction, and the trick is to go slow with the amounts, very slowly moving the amount up to a full dose. The hard thing is that you have to convince yourself at the time that it is part of the healing, not just a worse patch, because that is exactly what it feels like until you get through the rough patch – for me it was about 2 weeks. Glutathione made a huge difference to me – it finally turned me around so I could start healing. I know some are leery of it, so as I tell everyone, do your own research.

  13. Deb September 29, 2017 at 12:10 pm Reply

    Hi Bronwen,
    Did you have the genetic testing done? If so, did it help? I am thinking about 23andme and letting someone analyze it. I am having some anxiety reactions to supplements (iron, turmeric) that I had no problem with before FQ toxicity. Thanks!

    • Bronwen Duncan September 30, 2017 at 11:50 am Reply

      Hi Deb: I have not had the 23andme genetic testing done. I did go on the waiting list to see a genetic counselor (free as I’m in Canada) and he did not test me for the things I thought might be pertinent (e.g. Ehlers-Danlos COL5A1 COL5A2 TNXB, Folate processing MTHFR, Hypomagnesia TRPM6) but instead concluded I might have some symptoms of mild ELhers-Danlos and decided not to test. One thing fluoroquinilones do is break down collagen, so this does make sense, so I now ensure I take some every day. However, the vague approach was a bit frustrating, as I’d hoped I could identify for my family, what might be a genetic risk. But who knows if this is possible? There may not only be one risk factor, and there is, so far, so little study done on the subject, probably because there are so many lines of possibility to follow.

      I’ve heard some people somehow get their raw genetic data off of 23and me and run it through http://snpedia.com/index.php/Promethease or a similar online genetic analyzing program. I’ve also heard it is very hard to figure out and you’re likely to come across many scary bits of information that would never materialize. So, for the time being, as I am better, I just decided to not bother.

      If you are having anxiety reactions to supplements that continue past a few days, I’d say they are best to avoid, or take in tiny tiny doses. The confusion sometimes can be that we react to something our body really needs as a herxheimer reaction. My approach, if all my research said I REALLY needed the supplement, has always to take it down to a quarter dose and wait 2 weeks, and see if the reaction goes. If it does, I figure it was likely my body mobilizing some toxins which were released when the new supplement opened up a better chemistry pathway it should have been using, instead of limping along without the right ingredients and creating ROS, etc. And then I’d move up the dose a bit. But I also started with a very strong body and I didn’t have anxiety through reactions, just pain and weakness, so I can’t advise someone else to follow my protocol. It is really important just to listen to your body and your intuition too.

      Not sure I was any help.

      • L September 30, 2017 at 11:54 am Reply

        your doctor could also just do a simple blood test for things like MTHFR, factor v-leiden, coq10, etc through True Health Diagnostics Labs

        • Bronwen Duncan September 30, 2017 at 12:29 pm

          Everyone has a different path that opens up the information they need.

          I think there are so many genetic variations that should/could be tested for a fluoroquinilone reaction that the specific tests offered by True Health might be a bit of shooting in the dark and it all costs money which is why the 23andme broad testing might be better. I could not get the True Health tests done free, living in Canada, unless a genetics counsellor said they were necessary. And and it would be hard to get the blood pulled for me for foreign testing.

          Besides, many of these genetic variations, you can do absolutely nothing about. And the ones that I think are most likely, I can control with supplements: if it is MTHFR, one can take a B complex with methylated folate in it deals with the MTHFR issue. IF it is a magnesium processing issue, one can take magnesium, and if it is an Ehlers-Danlos situation, one can take collagen. So I will take all of these things for the rest of my life, and have let my family know it may be important to them too.

          But that is just me and an easy perspective because I am healed. We all find a different path to getting the information we need to heal.

          Bronwen

        • L September 30, 2017 at 1:04 pm

          just offering a suggestion…..

        • Bronwen Duncan September 30, 2017 at 1:54 pm

          I’m glad you did. Thank you. Options are great…

  14. Deb September 30, 2017 at 4:36 pm Reply

    Bronwen.,

    Thanks much for your information and experience!!!

  15. Nicole October 1, 2017 at 2:08 pm Reply

    Just for interest on the genetic questioning.
    I just touched base with a 1st cousin I had not talked to in 40 years. She was floxed by Levaquin!
    My doctor does believe in a genetic connection and told me to warn my son to never take a fluoroquinolone.
    I found my cousin’s situation interesting!

    • L October 1, 2017 at 2:15 pm Reply

      While genetics may play a part in how severely one is effected, these toxins would harm everyone given enough, and depending on their personal threshold. It is thought that the damage is cumulative. EG I had taken both Levaquin and Cipro before. Third time the bomb went off.

      • Nicole October 2, 2017 at 1:30 pm Reply

        My time bomb was the third time as well, L.
        I do know now if I or my doctors had more information on the side affects of these drugs we may have realized I was having some issues with the first two trips on a fluoroquinolone but my symptoms were always blamed on something else and since they had not killed me I just believed what the doctor said.

        • L October 2, 2017 at 1:38 pm

          yeah I know what you mean. I had only EVER seen allopaths and thought they were more informed than they were. It was an nd that I credit with saving my life. (a dozen western med drs through me under the bus after wards “oh, can’t be the Cipro!” “Cipro’s great–I use it all the time!”)

        • Nicole October 2, 2017 at 5:58 pm

          Know that story L. I heard it from the western doctors and pharmacists! Even before I knew my time bomb would be as bad as it is I felt it in my body. Told my husband every night something is really wrong in my body while I was taking the drug and after. I called 5 pharmacies and they all said great drug!!!!
          After my life fell apart the doctor I saw then just said I have already written 4 prescriptions this morning for Cipro and it a great drug, you are just unlucky!!!!!

        • L October 2, 2017 at 6:27 pm

          grrrrr. makes me so mad. they have NO IDEA how NOT rare this is. And I ended up filing a lawsuit against the pharmacy. (That is all I am allowed to say now.)

  16. L October 2, 2017 at 1:38 pm Reply

    threw

  17. Deb October 12, 2017 at 9:44 am Reply

    Bronwen and L,

    I have a scratchy throat today and I’m petrified of taking a pharmaceutical antibiotic. I am thinking about oil of oregano or alchornea. Do you all have any suggestions?

    • L October 12, 2017 at 9:56 am Reply

      OIL OF OREGANO!!!! I am a huge fan. I have used to alleviate sinus infection, flu, colds. Best to get organic and get the kind with the dropper, mixed with a carrier oil, like olive oil. (the one I use is by Natural Factors, but any organic one is good.) This method works faster and is more effective than taking the capsules. It’s kind of gross but SO worth it. Place a few drops under your tongue. let them sit for about 10 seconds, add some water, gargle a bit and then swallow. Do that 4 times a day. You can do it for as long as you like. I usually do it for a week or so past the time I feel better.

    • Bronwen Duncan October 12, 2017 at 9:03 pm Reply

      Hi Deb – Yes, I’d recommend oil of oregano as well. Many times a scratchy throat is a viral infection, not a bacterial one, for which a antibiotic wouldn’t help anyway. I believe oregano oil has some natural antivirus properties. I just got rid of my scratchy throat with it. For other infections, Thorne’s Berberine is an option, as is colloidal silver.

  18. Deb October 12, 2017 at 10:23 am Reply

    L
    Do you just put the olive oil under your tongue too, and if so how much? Thanks!!

    • L October 12, 2017 at 10:37 am Reply

      you buy it with the carrier oil already mixed. so just a few drops right from the bottle. again any brand is good, esp organic. this is the one I use…all read mixed. https://www.vitacost.com/natural-factors-organic-oil-of-oregano ( I ususally use vitacost because if you order $49 worth the shipping is free. So I wait till I need a few things. Plus their prices are unbeatable. If I need something right away, I just go to the local health food store.)

      • Deb October 12, 2017 at 2:20 pm Reply

        L,
        I can’t get the organic until tomorrow. Have you ever used the non-organic. I could start the non-organic tonight. Any ideas on using non-organic to start with?

        • L October 12, 2017 at 3:31 pm

          Yeah, would definitely start with it. I used nonorganic for quite some time myself. Go for it`!

  19. Sara October 13, 2017 at 10:55 pm Reply

    I was recently on Cipro due to a UTI. I took the full weeks worth of pills then a 1 1/2 weeks ago, I can no longer sleep on my left side without feeling like the muscle was detaching. Then my thigh, calf, foot on both legs starting to hurt. I started googling anything I could think of; until I started researching the medication. I so angry about this because I just started to feel relief from left thigh pain from Zoloft. Yeah, that med causes ridged muscle pain as well. Most common area of pain is the thigh. I’m angry at my Dr. for doing this. Why perscribe something when detached muscle, tendons can occure? From now on I will not take anything unless I research it first.

    I found this website just the other day and so I’m just on my journey towards restoring my health. Your experiences sound like mine and I pray I experience the changes as many of you have. I just received MotherEarth liquid magnesium and will give that a go while giving other suggestions a try. Any suggestions on how much to build up to? I’m currently just using a 1/2 teaspoon daily.

    Thank you all for sharing your stories. I no longer feel like I’m going crazy with this issue.

    • L October 13, 2017 at 11:03 pm Reply

      So sorry you had to join our “club”. Not familiar with that particular form of ma. But it is suggested to take as much as 800 mg daily to start. Also make sure to get on a god probiotic. Thd guy is connected to everything and these toxins destroy the good microbiome. Dr jay cohen who researched the flqs also suggested vitamin e. Do
      Not take ANY NSAIDs or steroids.

      • L October 13, 2017 at 11:05 pm Reply

        Ack sorry for typos. The gut not guy

    • Bronwen Duncan October 14, 2017 at 9:57 am Reply

      Hi Sara: I had to build up the amount of mag gradually so the body could absorb it. Too much than the body can absorb and you get diarrhea. I had to resort to topical applications to get my body used to gradually taking more, as this by-passes the gut. So, epsom salts in a bath are one way of getting mag into you – one cup in the bath and soak for 10 or 15 minutes. This would also help your legs feel better. Another way is with a magnesium “oil” or spray. Various companies make this and you spray it on your skin. It can itch so find a place on your body that itches less, and even if you wash it off half an hour later, much of the absorption through the skin and into the blood stream has already happened. Here is a good article: http://drsircus.com/magnesium/use-magnesium-oil/ Then, I took mag malate orally, as it worked well for me. I started at 100 elemental mag and worked up to 400/500 mg, never reaching as my as L above, but all our bodies are different in the way they work.

      If you look at the posting I wrote on Sept 10 (above) I gave a good overview of how I’d approach floxing how. Ruth’s story on this site also talks in detail about mag.

      So sorry about this happening to you! Wishing you strength and healing!

      • L October 14, 2017 at 10:16 am Reply

        and if you avoid the mag citrate you can help avoid the diarrhea. Some good forms to take are orotate, taurate and threonate. Dr Jay Cohen recommends the higher doses for “pharmacologic effect,” since we are so depleted from the flqs, and this effects so much of the damage, especially nerve damage. From his book “…it is often necessary to take increased doses such as 600, 800 or even 1,000 mg/day for months….if you have FTS, taking magnesium is imperative for healing…”

      • Sara October 15, 2017 at 8:00 pm Reply

        Thanks for the replys! One question though – of everything that had been listed on what to take, what would be the main essentials to take and which can I live without? Money being tight, I can’t do it all but I want to get the essentials items.

        • L October 15, 2017 at 9:06 pm

          I would say Magnesium and probiotics and D (you might want to test first for D levels. Most people are too low.) Dr Jay Cohen also recommends E (I never took it though because I wasn’t aware.)

      • Sara October 15, 2017 at 9:46 pm Reply

        What brand did you or L take for mag malate and threorate?

        • L October 15, 2017 at 10:02 pm

          I take whatever reputable brand is on sale at Vitacost.

    • Bronwen Duncan October 15, 2017 at 8:14 pm Reply

      Hi again Sara:

      Everyone’s body is different, but as I mentioned in my Sept 10 post, in my opinion the most important are magnesium, MitoQ, a great B complex and some type of oxidative stress remover. But MitoQ is expensive, so if money is tight take CoQ10, but it you can manage it, I think MitoQ is worth it. For more details on all these items, check the Sept 10 post above.

      Believe you’ll heal. It is step by step – for some quickly and for some more slowly.
      Bronwen

      • Sara October 15, 2017 at 9:01 pm Reply

        Thank you so much. That cleared up a lot of confusion. I kept looking at the other items, the ones you tried but dropped. I wasn’t sure if everything was needed.

        What B Complex did you order? So many of them sound great but it’s confusing.

        I’ll be ordering these items soon. Thanks again!!

      • Sara October 16, 2017 at 1:54 am Reply

        I cannot find anything regarding oxidative stress remover On amazon – any suggestions on a brand name to use. I tried searching earlier posts and couldn’t find anything specific.

        Thanks!

        • Bronwen Duncan October 16, 2017 at 7:27 am

          NAC is an oxidative stress remover. There are many on Amazon. NAC – N Acetyl Cysteine. However, I found NAC could not help me as my body was too compromised, so resorted to lipomomal glutathione. Some people get a naturopath to give them glutathine IV. However, there is controversy over glutathione. You will have a herx reaction with glutathione as it removes toxins (ROS) from your body, your body reads these toxins running about in the blood and reacts them, and so you get worse, not better as they go, before you get better. It can also do such a good job of detoxing your body, it can remove built up mercury etc which can cause other problems. I can not advise you or not advise you. There have been many conversations on this site about glutathione so you may want to read what you can find and make up your own mind after doing your own research – no one can tell you exactly what to do with your own body – you have to make the decisions. It made all the difference for me, although I dipped for two weeks. Make sure you start with a small small dose and build up. And by the way, even NAC can create some herxing, but, as far as I know, not to a point people don’t take it.

          Sorry I can’t give you definitive answers!

          Bronwen

  20. Seongman October 14, 2017 at 7:10 am Reply

    Hello Bronwen.

    First I do not speak English and this article is written by a translator. please understand.
    I am a seongman living in Korea.
    I eat cipro for a month and have side effects, and I am looking for help.
    What problem did Bronwen have with his heart?
    What was the name?)
    Is your heart problem treated without medication?
    Please tell me how to treat without medication.
    There is a difficulty in seeing and understanding your writing by translator.
    Thank you for your detailed reply.
    Thanks Bronwen.

    • Lisa October 17, 2017 at 7:44 pm Reply

      Hi Seongman,

      This response is from Bronwen. For some reason, she wasn’t able to post it, so I am putting it on the site for her:

      Hello Seongman

      My heart beat was very irregular. Many early beats. It would sometimes race fast and I could see the beats very strongly in my body and it would feel like there was something heavy in the centre of my chest. It would beat so loud I could not sleep. I would also get pains in my ribs, in the centre of my chest and my upper back and I did not know if this was my heart of something else.

      I believe my heart was affected because Cipro can cause stop the mitochondria, which make the energy in cells. The heart is a very strong muscle with many mitochondria, so I think this caused the damage.
      I hope you can translate this page: https://heartmdinstitute.com/health-and-wellness/what-are-mitochondria/
      I took the following supplements (not medications) for my heart
      · D-ribose (which is energy for the cells)

      · L-carnitine

      · CoQ10 (although would now take instead: MitoQ https://www.mitoq.com/mitoq-5mg-capsules-60.html)

      · Magnesium – magnesium malate and magnesium threonate. They helped very much.

      Although I have some early beats still now, I am really completely better.
      I hope this helps,
      Bronwen

  21. Deb October 16, 2017 at 12:05 pm Reply

    Bronwen and L,
    I was doing better with the Oil of Oregano 4 times a day until last night and today and I feel worse. Again I know you can’t give medical advice, but do you have any ideas as to why I would feel worse? Thanks much!

    • L October 16, 2017 at 12:24 pm Reply

      I really don’t. It always works very well for me. I have used it for colds, flu, sinus infection, sort throat. I wouldn’t necessarily suspect it is the cause of you feeling worse.

      • Deb October 16, 2017 at 12:37 pm Reply

        L
        How long do you usually have to take it? I’ve read no longer than 10 days.

        Yesterday I felt like I was almost over the sore throat. I think when you have several FQ symptoms, any new symptom becomes convoluted with the current symptoms, and it gets scary. Thanks for your voice of reason.

        By the way, how did you deal with the worry of all your symptoms? I was trying to be calm, but the more I thought about the sore throat, the more stressed I got especially when I don’t feel I can take more antibiotics. Thanks much!!

        • L October 16, 2017 at 1:24 pm

          Hmmm. I use it for 1-2 weeks. It is possible that you could be allergic to it, although I think you probably would have seen that sooner.

          As for “how did I deal with the worry?” Not very well! I had over 30 side effects. I was a mess, and in a constant state of worry/anxiety/dread. Really time was the biggest helper. That and getting better. I was just recalling an event at a grocery store. One of my first times out on my own in over a year, post-Cipro, and I was still in very bad shape. I was still having major breathing issues, difficulty moving very quickly, olfactory nerve damage and horrible vision issues under the fluorescent lights. Plus I just felt hideous, like I had pneumonia. I was standing staring at a shelf of food and I was paralyzed. I was so worried about what I put in my body at that point, I didn’t know what to buy. As I stood there, tears streaming down my face, an associate (trader joes —my favorite place) asked if she could help. I burst out crying and said “I can’t have gluten or dairy or soy or nonorganic. I am afraid to eat anything.” and I explained what happened. She met me at the check out with a bouquet of flowers (like I said I love trader joes.) I was so paranoid of everything I ate or put on my body.

          Fast forward to today, 2 years and 9 months post Cipro. I have added back in a cup of coffee in the morning, a glass of wine several nights a week (and the ocassional scotch.) While I still am mostly gluten free, I found I do ok with organic sour dough (for some reason it has less gluten). I still try to only eat organic meat and nonfarmed fish, but I do “taste” other things on occasion—something I NEVER would have done before. I was too afraid of everything hurting me. I have found I do ok with goats milk dairy products. I have changed out all my costmestics for healthy brands.

          So the worry has diminished greatly. I still have fluid around my heart that doesn’t seem to want to go back to normal, but so far it doesn’t seem to stop me from most things. Hang in there. IT gets better.

    • Bronwen Duncan October 16, 2017 at 6:32 pm Reply

      Hi Deb – sometimes oregano oil helps and sometimes it doesn’t. I think if you catch the bug very early there is more of a chance. But there is no foolproof way of definately holding off a cold. And if the oregano oil is not working, it does take a toll on your liver, so it is a balance whether to keep taking it or not- if you look online the rule of thumb is only 10 days. But you’re right – I can’t offer medical advice, and this is moving out of the realm of cipro reaction.

      I also think we each have to believe that our bodies are doing their best to find balance, to find health, and we each have a different place of balance based on genetics, our childhood, our diet, and a tons of other things too. What works for one, does not always work for another. We can only help our body to heal itself. No medication or supplement does the job – they are just helpers.

      As you work through your cipro healing it will cycle worse and better like a rollercoaster and you just have to go with it, knowing that every time it is worse, your body is probably working hard against some toxin or bug. But the fact that it IS reacting, means it is trying well. That has become my view, anyway.

      Bronwen

  22. Deb October 16, 2017 at 3:17 pm Reply

    L
    You had such a difficult road!! I know it’s great to get back to a more “normal” way of life. How special that the Trader Joe associate believed you and showed compassion.

    I too think if there was an allergy to the oil of oregano it would have showed up quicker. If I have a temp., the OOO will bring it down pretty quickly and it seems to have loosened the congestion but I am coughing it up all day today. My voice was better until today. I did use Vicks Vapo Rub last night (which I haven’t done since my Mother would rub in on my chest when I was little). Maybe it was the Vicks. So who knows?

    Thank you for your kindness in sharing your experience, knowledge and optimism. I’m glad you’re doing so much better!

    • L October 16, 2017 at 5:04 pm Reply

      I would avoid the Vicks vapo rub. It’s a petroleum product and has other chemical s as well. I would go for essential oils instead

  23. Jo October 18, 2017 at 6:47 am Reply

    Hello,
    I was wondering if sauna is helpful? Do heavy metals have a big influence on this condition? And I was floxed 5 years ago and still have sleep issues. Any suggestions?

    • Bronwen Duncan October 18, 2017 at 7:08 am Reply

      Hi Jo

      I’m afraid I don’t know anything about the value of saunas.

      I expect heavy metals do influence the condition – the reaction to cipro is due to some chemistry imbalances that cipro creates, and there is still not enough studies to be sure what. I expect any potential chemistry imbalance one has before taking cipro in the body may exacerbate the reaction, but this is just my guess – I don’t know. I wish there were more clear answers!

      As far as sleep goes, I was not one of the people who had my brain as affected as my muscles, tendons, heart, etc. Therefore, other stories may give you better hints for solutions. THe first thing that comes to mind, however, is magnesium malate. If you google “magnesium and sleep” you’ll see a bunch of articles come up. Take it before bed – I like magnesium malate. (Magnesium threonate is VERY good for the brain as it passes the brain barrier well, but it can stimulate your brain, so if you are taking it, be sure to take in the morning, not evening.)

    • L October 18, 2017 at 9:26 am Reply

      Infra red sauna is supposed to be helpful. I was going to do it myself, but am looking for a larger one…too claustrophobic for the individual ones

      • Jo October 18, 2017 at 9:32 am Reply

        Thank you for your reply . I been trying to find any info on sauna and ciprofloaxin poisoning but can not find any . Did you find any information? Do you think ozone will help too ?

        • L October 18, 2017 at 10:07 am

          The sauna was recommended to me by my doctor. IT is great for detoxing. AS for ozone—I would Highly recommend it. I did not get it myself because I was getting H2O2 IVs and there was too much overlap…BUT my ND used it with all his other floxies (as well as cancer patients and Lyme patients.) What you want though is an ND or integrative MD to administer the ozone. Do not do one of those ozone saunas. The reason is, even if your head is out of the tented part, ozone will still come up and you will inhale it. You want ozone injections.

          And actually I did get ozone in a sense. Among my other side effects, I got torn meniscus. There was no way I was having surgery and of course steroids are out of the question so I got prolozone injections. It is ozone and procaine, injected into the knee. It allows your body to heal itself naturally. Well, before the injections, one knee was so painful I could barely walk. It is now about a year later (improvement was after about 3 months) and I actually am back to doing pretty much everything I did before including squatting down, which I NEVER would have been able to do before.

        • Jo October 18, 2017 at 10:18 am

          Thank you , do you think sauna get rid of the ciprofloaxin in your body after years still or is it doing something else ?

        • L October 18, 2017 at 10:41 am

          I really don’t know. At the very least it can help get rid of other toxins that add to the load. For example, my holistic dentist recently recommended I do it since I had the mercury fillings removed. It would help lessen any toxic load. Unfortunately I don’t think anyone really knows how long this poison actually hangs around.

  24. Jo October 18, 2017 at 6:52 am Reply

    What kinda of collagen are you taking ? Thanks !

    • Bronwen Duncan October 18, 2017 at 7:09 am Reply

      I take WithinUs Marine Collagen. It is from the scales of wild fish.

  25. Jo October 18, 2017 at 7:27 am Reply

    Thank you, I also have the MHTFR mutation plus CBS, so that makes detoxing more difficult I guess.

  26. Jo October 18, 2017 at 8:32 am Reply

    Did you also have amalgam fillings?

  27. Jo October 18, 2017 at 9:21 am Reply

    hello Brownen,
    I just wondered if you have fully recovered and how long it took?
    Thanks

    • Bronwen Duncan October 18, 2017 at 8:39 pm Reply

      Hi Jo – yes I believe I have fully recovered. I felt much better at a year – in my story I say 80 to 90% better, but I think the how much better I felt made me a little optimistic. At that time I would still cycle through 2 or 3 days every couple of weeks where my heart would get very irregular and my ribs/upper back/sternum would be very sore. Even though I felt close to fine much of the time, if I exerted myself a lot (e.g. 8km hike or piling wood for a couple hours), my body would crash later the next day for a day or so. It was as if my health was tentative and I didn’t have the resiliency. I used to be very fit, high energy and a backpacker/hiker/kayaker, pushing my endurance. Even though there was a little progress each year, it wasn’t until this summer that I re-found my resiliency and that is 3 years and 4 months later. I think it was the combo of two things. I started iodine (which replaces flouride) and I went on a strenuous kayak holiday where I believe I worked any remaining toxins out of chest/ribs/upper back. I can’t advise people to take iodine – it is quite controversial and I believe if I took it early on, my body could not have handled it. I needed to be mostly well until I could take that step.

      Am I exactly the same as before? No. Not exactly. A couple of things are better – less vertigo than before being floxed – I have to wonder if what ever got me floxed was connected to whatever gave me vertigo. One factor could be low magnesium. Or low iodine. Who knows? However, I am 56 and honestly, in great shape right now. My heart still beats weirdly sometimes, and I will be on some supplements forever. But, I’ve never felt stronger, and the whole awful journey through cipro gave me a confidence and drive to live life and adventure like never before.

      I guess that’s the long answer!
      Bronwen

      • Jo October 19, 2017 at 5:38 am Reply

        Thank you, I am glad you are doing so well.
        I wondered if you ever had amalgam fillings and if you think heavy metals played a role?
        Thanks
        Jo

        • Bronwen Duncan October 19, 2017 at 6:48 am

          I have had amalgam fillings. I don’t think heavy metal played a role, but I”ll never know for sure.

  28. Jo October 19, 2017 at 6:55 am Reply

    I know it is so hard to know. I had my amalgams removed 2 years ago and how about you when did you have yours removed? Did you do any chelating?
    Thanks
    Jo

  29. Bronwen Duncan October 19, 2017 at 7:05 am Reply

    Jo – no I did not have mine removed and no, I did not do any chelating.

  30. Sara October 19, 2017 at 8:22 pm Reply

    Ok, so I stared taking L-Threonate, Malate, AOR B complex, cqo10. Mitoq will arrive 11/30.

    I haven’t ordered whey yet but I will.

    Tonight I experienced something strange. My ear and jaw (TMJ) started popping and hurting. Then from my jaw down my neck, I felt a painful muscle pull. I have never experienced anything like that before. Is there something else I should add or do I have enough supplements to get me started? I’m afraid of taking so much too fast. Suggestions please.

    Also I have a script for hydrocodone which i follow for muscle pain do to injuries before Cipro. Should I stop using this med. I’m concerned if it would interfere with the supplements I’m now taking.

    • Sara October 19, 2017 at 8:48 pm Reply

      Bronwen, with the supplements you no longer use, did you slowly add them to your routine before adding other ones?

  31. Sara October 19, 2017 at 8:33 pm Reply

    Also, I have wondered if what I’m experiencing means my supplements are starting to work?

    • Bronwen October 19, 2017 at 9:19 pm Reply

      Hi Sara: I had to look at your first post to see when you took cipro and it sounds like it was recently. The damage from cipro takes a while to build up and often gets worse before it gets better. It got worse for me until 6 months before it got better. Some people it only gets worse for a few weeks before improving. I’m SO sorry to have to say this. Particularly with tendons that grow and repair slowly the damage takes a while to happen.

      However, this also may not be the case. It is always very hard to figure out whether symptoms that go up and down are the body getting more effected by cipro or starting to release the toxic build up. The trick is to go at supplements gradually and try to become your own body detective. Certain patterns appear over time, like a cycle of things getting better and worse – I had it go up and down weekly for months. The mag, and particularly the mag malate is one of the best things you can do to calm down your muscles. It is given to people with fibromyalgia. Now you mention it my jaw also got very stiff at some point, but I think it was due to lymph glands swelling as an immune reaction. I also have found a residual symptom from cipro is the popping and stiffness of many joints in my upper body – I now have to work hard at keeping them mobile. So the popping in your jaw (or for me it was my shoulders) is all part of the same thing, I think.

      I would definitely avoid taking any medications right now – every medication works by playing with your body chemistry and may make damage worse. An epsom salt bath, perhaps?

      And for your second question – yes I slowly added and removed all supplements.

      Wishing you strength. I know this is a hard road.
      Bronwen

      • Sara October 19, 2017 at 9:51 pm Reply

        Bronwen, thanks for your reply. Yes, in 4 days, it will be 4 weeks since my last dose of Cipro. My left shoulder started hurting first which caused me to investigate this med. Since it takes time for the damage to build up, it sounds like I may be in the early stages of the build up. Does that sound right?

        I’ll avoid some of my meds but I know the ones I need to take are my blood pressure, metformin for type II diabetes and levothyroxine. I hope those don’t screw me over by taking them. Unfortunately I live in a small town many hours away from a naturopathic that could offer suggestions.

        So I’ll definitely start slow. Do you think the PQQ or D-ribose would be too much to add at this point

        • Bronwen Duncan October 19, 2017 at 10:06 pm

          Yes – it was my shoulder pain/collapse which got me searching too. You may still have the damage building up, but the supplements will also help turn it around sooner rather than later. I wish I could give you a proper answer. I can’t.

          Lisa posted a good article on drugs to avoid: https://floxiehope.com/2015/08/11/pharmaceuticals-contraindicated-with-fqs/

          I think I would add them all including D-ribose and PQQ over a few days but at 1/4 or half dose to start and build up. D-ribose feeds your mitochondria the energy they are trying to make (ATP). It really helped my heart but I didn’t discover it until a few months in. I’d start a small dose of that right away. But, please listen to your body and your own intuition – I can only talk from my own experience and all the research I’ve done. But each body is different and reacts somewhat differently and perhaps even for somewhat different reasons.

          Bronwen

  32. Sara October 24, 2017 at 1:00 am Reply

    How to you cut dosages if it’s a capsule? Tablets I can but caps are tricky suckers.

    Also with the other supplements you added then stopped taking, when did you figure out it was time to stop taking a paticular supplement?

    My spirits are so down. Been praying I would just die so the pain would just stop. All I do is lie in bed – my sister thinks I’m making it all up. She’s an RN so in her eyes medicine is perfect

    • Bronwen Duncan October 24, 2017 at 7:14 am Reply

      Hi Deb: I had some spare gelatin capsules around, and would open them up and move contents over.

      I took most supplements for over a year. When to stop was all based on when I really felt I’d turned a corner and by my literally hundreds of hours of reading about what each supplement does. I know some people say to avoid the internet, but is not the way I work – I would read scientific studies on everything I could find.

      I’m so sorry you’re feeling so down. I know there are many people on this sight who can relate. Please do not listen to your sister, or show her the FDA report which medical professionals should trust: https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm511530.htm or this letter written to doctors by a doctor: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzLMHZg5q0Y3Wm5SVW1sRDIxSnc/view

      My heart goes out to you! If you can, please build/find a support system. Floxie Hope is part of this. But it’s ideal if you can find someone who will listen, professional or otherwise, within your own community if you can, but even one friend you can call anywhere who will listen to you when you need it. I also know that it seems incredibly unfair. Just remember, you body is trying very hard to heal itself! I found I would focus on finding joy in small things – the shape of a flower, or the taste of something good, a beautiful poem.

      Do something good for yourself today! You are important. Healing is just one tiny step at a time.
      Bronwen

    • L October 24, 2017 at 8:39 am Reply

      Sara, so sorry that on top of everything else your sister does not believe you. We all go through that with doctors and different friends/family members. You might direct her to DR Jay Cohen’s Book “How We Can Halt The Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The worst environmental Disaster in US History.” You might also direct her to the FDA’s own description of fluoroquinolone associated disability.

      Capsules are tricky. Once when I was trying to wean myself off a capsule, I just eyeballed it at 1/2 and 1/4, and then when I got very low I actually counted the little beads. But this was a pharmaceutical. Not sure I would be that careful with a supplement. As for how to know when to stop..it’s just guesswork for me for many of them. Also, I don’t like to stay on anyone supplement for too long without a break, so sometimes I will stop one for a while and then add it back in.

      • L October 24, 2017 at 8:40 am Reply

        oops, not “environemtal disaster” in the title—“medical disaster”. You can see where my head is at these days!

  33. Deb October 24, 2017 at 3:57 am Reply

    Bronwen and L,
    The oil of oregano seems to be working. The congestion and cough started lessening after taking it about eight days. I took it ten days, and I do feel better from the respiratory congestion. I have other issues I’m dealing with (as it seems most of us do) but that one is better! Thanks to both of you!!

    Bronwen I just noticed from your post above about d-ribose. Did that help your energy? Thanks. Deb

    • Bronwen Duncan October 24, 2017 at 7:22 am Reply

      Hi Deb: D-ribose helped my heart a lot. I assume it helped all my mitochondria but the only place I could really feel the difference was in my heart. Often it is hard to tell what supplement made what difference, when I took so many!

      The mitochondria produce energy and when they are broken by cipro, D-ribose is a shortcut, however, it does not provide the raw ingredients for the methylation cycle which produces the energy that runs through your mitochondria. You need these too (magnesium, B vitamins, MitoQ, etc)

      Bronwen

    • L October 24, 2017 at 8:41 am Reply

      Yea!!! also, though I have not used it yet, I have read another good anti-viral is olive leaf extract.

  34. Sara October 29, 2017 at 5:57 pm Reply

    Anout 5 weeks ago I started Cipro and and symptoms of being poisoned started. I been taking L-Threonate, Malate, AOR B complex, cqo10, a probuotic, calcium and d3. I saw my doctor and she gave me scripts for a muscle relaxer along with my pain pills. I’m taking less of those meds because of the supplements but need them when it’s bad.

    When I discussed my Cipro side effects she said the muscle tears will not get worse and will heal since its been so long since I last took the med. She basically said not to worry. I wanted to laugh. Today while getting out of the car, my shoulder pulled like its been doing. I’ll probably see her in a month and she what she says then. I anticipate I will continue to hurt and experience tears. Unfortunatly In my area, we do not have the choices of naturopaths since I live in the middle of nowhere. I’ll continue to use the supplements I have and wait for the whey, marine collagen, PHP, NAC, colloidal silver and oil of oregano to arrive.

    Meanwhile, I placed all fluorquinolones on my allergy list at the clinic and pharmacy. I’ll be more watchful of other meds in the future.

    I’m more upbeat mentally now but I have moments. This has to get better.

    • L October 29, 2017 at 6:18 pm Reply

      ugh. She is SO misinformed. AS Dr Jay Cohen says in his book, doctors who believe that once you stop the drug, the side effects will not continue, has ZERO understanding of pharmacology.

      By chance do you have access to integrative MDs? Did you do a search of ‘integrative MD” or “functional md?”

      • Sara October 29, 2017 at 7:05 pm Reply

        I tried both but anyone remotely to what y’all use is not available near me. They are like 6+ hours or so away so going to one is impossible so far. Even looking for someone who does needling or acupuncture is so far not happening. Ugggggh. Sucks.

        I agree with what you said in regards to my doctor – even when I told her I spoke to the FDA she still covered it over that it’s not as serious as it sounds.

        • L October 29, 2017 at 7:34 pm

          Sorry. I was in touch with someone who was very damaged by these drugs and she lived on a small farm in Georgia, fad from any nds or natural practitioners. I lost touch with her after a few months and always wonder how she is doing. It’s hard enough even with options. At least there is a wealth of info on this site.

  35. Jo October 30, 2017 at 5:10 am Reply

    Does any body have any experience with becoming EMF sensitive ?
    Thanks

  36. Jo November 4, 2017 at 7:57 am Reply

    Hello Bronwen,

    You mentioned that you also have the MTHFR mutation. I have that as well am I am tying to figure out how this affects detox? I also wonder what you do for diet because you mentioned about a food list that was helpful for you. Do you mind sharing. I know my liver needs to do a better detox job and I appreciate any information on this mutation if you can please? thank you
    Jo

    • Bronwen Duncan November 4, 2017 at 10:16 am Reply

      Hi Jo:
      I don’t know if I have an MTHFR mutation or not. In my story I was wondering if that could be a factor. I haven’t had my genetic profile done, although might still. In my case I’m beginning to think it may be instead or also connected to having Ehlers Danlos-type tendencies, with really poor connective tissue. I do know that my methylation pathway was limping along but why, I don’t know. In order to counteract a potential MTHFR mutation, however, I have been taking a B complex with methylated forms of B12 and B9 (folate) and I’d suggest this as important regardless. Thorne puts out a good one.

      If you haven’t found it already, Lisa wrote a page on MTHFR at https://floxiehope.com/2016/02/18/mthfr-genetic-mutations-and-fluoroquinolone-toxicity/ and I like this too: http://doccarnahan.blogspot.ca/2013/05/mthfr-gene-mutation-whats-big-deal.html

      As for your earlier question, I don’t know what EMF sensitive is.

      Sorry I couldn’t help more.
      Bronwen

      • Jo November 8, 2017 at 7:07 am Reply

        Thank you Bronwen,
        EMF sensitive is electro magnetic field, like you would have sensitivities to computers and all the electric devices. It makes your nervous system overactive. I wonder if anybody has had experience with that?
        Thanks

  37. Deb November 7, 2017 at 8:13 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen,

    Are you familiar with P450 and it’s role in detoxing from fluoroquinolone toxicity? Thanks. Deb

    • Bronwen Duncan November 7, 2017 at 8:19 am Reply

      Hi Deb – no I’m not familiar with P450. Sorry.
      Bronwen

  38. Sara November 10, 2017 at 12:29 am Reply

    I must say, the Progressive Harmonized Protein rocks in taste and has helped with my stomach pain. This is definitely a keeper. Bronwen, I know you mentioned you’ve started out with one scoop a day. Did you add more scoops after awhile?

    I tried Veda marine collagen which I like though I want to try a few others to see which one is the most value for my money. Are there any suggestions other than the Within Us brand? I’d like to try that one as well.

    Bone Broth is an amazing addition. My jaw which has been like Rice Crispies has become more silent since drinking bone broth twice a day. I haven’t heard anything into helping Cipro toxicity but I hope it continues helping my jaw. I’ve been in tears over this pain in particular because the sound near my ears drives me crazy. The brand I’ve been using is from Probiotic America LLC. I give it extra flavor with Braggs Liquid Aminos since it doesn’t have regular salt in it and has extra aminos.

    I’ve also added Raw Grass Fed Whey which as been good though I want to find a more cost effective whey since I want to keep getting Progressive Harmonized Protein. I only wish this brand filled its container more with product instead of having so much empty space in the container.

    This is all I’ve added since adding the first supplements in this toxicity journey. I have found a natural health dr not terribly far away. I’ll be contacting him soon so I’m hoping for some future success.

    I’m grateful to this site for all the wonderful suggestions and support!!

    • Bronwen Duncan November 10, 2017 at 8:24 am Reply

      Hi Sara: I’m glad you’re finding a pathway to steer the corner to recovery. Yes – I’ve heard others that really benefited from bone broth too. So pleased it is helping. As far as the Progressive Harmonized protein, I always just kept with one scoop. I don’t have any other suggestions for Collagen. Personally, I would just make sure that any supplement from animal sources was from an anti-biotic free animal, which many of our farm animals, for instance are not. Progressive Harmonized Protein is made from milk from New Zealand cows that are not fed antibiotics, and the reason I used Within Us Collagen is that is made from the fish scales of wild fish.

      I hope the natural health doctor can give you some further direction, and very pleased this site has been able to help you. It certainly helped me and many others!!!
      B

      Bronwen

  39. Deb November 10, 2017 at 3:31 pm Reply

    Bronwen,

    Did you have a naturopath or alternative medicine healer that helped you on your journey or did you find your own path?

    Also, when you took the iodine did you have blood tests to check your thyroid before you did it?

    Thanks.

    • Bronwen Duncan November 10, 2017 at 11:24 pm Reply

      Hi Deb: Sort of both. I started with one naturopath who was very kind and tried to be helpful but had no idea of the severity of what was going on. I moved and ended off talking to a fellow who owned a pharmacy/alternative health store who honestly helped me more than anyone – he not only understood what cipro could do, but explained how if NAC was not working to improve me by boosting glutathione production in the liver, then my methylation cycle was more or less broken and I would need to resort to taking the glutathione my ability to make my own was severely compromised. I also learned (not through him) that the methylation cycle and mitochondria energy generation cycle were inherently linked too, and by the time I got to another great naturopath (who really could have helped me initially) it was just a check in that what I was taking and doing for myself made sense.

      I think naturopaths all have there areas of expertise, and biases and you need to find one that works for your body, and understands what is going on.

      I did not take blood test before taking iodine. I knew this was a potential risk although after much research decided it was a very small risk for me. However, I certainly can not and should not recommend others to. I had numerous reasons to think my iodine was down (not producing mucous in my nose, for instance). I have had my thyroid checked since, and it is just fine.

      Bronwen

      • Deb November 11, 2017 at 11:02 am Reply

        Hi Bronwen,

        How long before you could tell a difference? Thanks.

        • Bronwen Duncan November 11, 2017 at 11:43 am

          Hi Deb: Symptoms cycle up and down so it is hard to tell in the short term, only in the longer term. For me, I cycled through short periods of relative calm, where I was not better, but the worst symptoms were much less, and then it would dip to much worse. I believe (although have no proof) the body having a herxheimer reaction every time as it rids itself of whatever toxins. It seemed the cycle would run up and down every week to 10 days eventually lengthening out. Therefore I could not see a difference day to day, or even week to week, but more every wo months or so, I’d realize I was overall a little better. The two times my health jumped forward, was when I started D-ribose (helping my heart) and when I started liposomal glutathione which through me into a a 2-week herxheimer reaction that I steeled my way through, hoping that was what was going on, and I’d come out better. I did.

          I don’t know if everyone cycles as I did, but I think it is prevalent, when I here about others experiences. I ended off almost embracing the worse times, as I felt that was when my body was working hard to right things. Psychologically, this helped me.

          The issue is it is hard to know when you dip, whether it is a cycle or general trend. You can’t tell immediately. Also confusing is that, for me, some symptoms seemed to peak at about 6 weeks after taking cipro (such as wrecked tendons or pain in my chest), and others at 6 months (fatigue and rib pain), but I did not have the benefit of the knowledge I do now about supplements, and know that by supplying my body with some chemistry pieces that were sabotaged through the cipro’s cascading chemical reaction in my body, I could have stopped some things earlier. That is why I am such a fan of magnesium, B complex, mitoQ, and yes, glutathione (liposomal or IV) but the glutathione is certainly controversial. They all helped me hugely.

          I would suggest keeping a log – it can help see patterns and make you feel more in control. I mapped everything that was going on for me, so I had the cycles with dates beside them, the corresponding supplement lists, etc. Not only did this make me feel I had some control, it enabled me to participate in studies about cipro reactions and have proof of what was going on when dealing with either naturopaths or western medicine practitioners. I even sent findings on my own reaction to the FDA when they were asking for input on their fluoroquinilone review.

          However, even three years out I was still getting minor cycles well spread out. It wasn’t until this summer (3 1/4 years later) that I feel I am completely better.

          A long answer to a simple question!
          Bronwen

  40. Deb November 11, 2017 at 1:58 pm Reply

    Bronwen,

    You are so kind to offer your support to those of us trying to find our way through this perplexing maze. Thanks for all your information and time!!

    • Jo November 12, 2017 at 7:37 am Reply

      Hello,
      I wonder about healing digestive issues, anybody have any ideas? Did you ever hear about the product Restore or did you ever try it? And what kind of probiotics would be advisable?
      Thanks

      • L November 12, 2017 at 9:37 am Reply

        Yes, my integrative doc added Restore to my gut healing “repertoire.” As far as probiotics, get the refrigerated kind (there are some companies now that make them stable at room temperature, but I just don’t trust that yet), one with multiple strains, and at least 10 billion cfus (more is better…if you can find 40, that’s great.) Go with a company that has a good reputation. Just do some online research.
        If you are having digestive issues, you may want to try HCL Betaine with high protein meals. It’s a bit tricky finding the correct starting dose, which could be anywhere from 1 to 8 caps, depending on how off you are. I had an ND help me with this. You also might want to try digestive enzymes.

        • Jo November 13, 2017 at 6:39 am

          Thank you , I like to try the Restore and I wonder what your experience was with that product, did it really restore the good bacteria in your gut? I know antibiotics kill a lot of good bacteria too so since I used then I want to get my digestion in better shape. I have undigested food still after taking Cipro. How long did you take this product?
          Thank you

        • L November 13, 2017 at 8:20 am

          the restore did help, but again, I was also taking probiotics. I would not rely on the restore alone. Also, I did not start the restore until more than 1 1/2 years after being floxed. I was severely damaged head to toe, and my gut was a mess….36 lb weight loss. The ND added in the restore because I was still having issues, so it’s really hard to say. I would not try to do it in place of probiotics, but in addition to. I stayed on it for several months.

        • melindahemmelgarn November 13, 2017 at 9:04 am

          I have not seen compelling evidence re Restore. In fact, check the consumerlab.com site for a review of the product. I’m looking for independent lab studies with human subjects.
          As a dietitian, I would recommend probiotics as having the greatest potential impact, but benefits are strain specific, and expect individual variation. In addition to supplements, try to add a variety of fermented foods — from kefir to yogurt, kraut and kimchee.
          https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/does-restore-bionic-sciences-llc-really-improve-gut-health/Restore-gut-health/

        • Jo November 13, 2017 at 9:15 am

          Thanks Melinda,
          Unfortunately I am not a member and can not read the report. Could you tell me what it includes?
          And as a dietician do you recommend stool testing or will the body rebalance on its own?

        • L November 13, 2017 at 2:59 pm

          I said this was IN ADDITION to probiotics. I trust the integrative internist that put me on Restore, and it did help me.

        • Jo November 13, 2017 at 9:04 am

          Thanks, I also have a lot of weight loss, and hopefully will gain some over time. Were you able to gain again? Do you think restore can help leaky gut? I have been taking probiotics for a long time already and will add the restore now.
          Did you ever get any stool testing done and what kind? Do you think that the gut bacteria will heal again?
          Thanks

        • L November 13, 2017 at 11:16 am

          I did gain the weight back. Never had a stool test but went from white stool to normal over about a year. Restore definitely helped. On probiotics for like now

        • L November 13, 2017 at 11:19 am

          And yes the gut will heal!

        • J November 13, 2017 at 11:23 am

          Thanks very much , that is so encouraging.

      • Bronwen Duncan November 12, 2017 at 10:13 am Reply

        Hi Jo: I didn’t have gut issues, but my naturopath got me onto some really good probiotic right away – I’ve forgotten the name, but as L said, there is much research online. I ended off taking Now Probiotic-10 as it was cheaper and seemed decent, but I’m not an expert. More recently, I started making my own milk Kefir instead, as a way to make sure I had restored all the good bacteria back into my body (very high in the lactobacillus bacterias), as I’d also been on penicillin once for a whole year when I was young. Even without digestive issues, I felt it worthwhile in a general health sense. You can get the culture at “Cultures for Health” website. I’ve heard great things about the digestive enzymes as well that L mentioned.

        • L November 12, 2017 at 10:55 am

          ah, yes! fermented food are great. I can’t handle regular dairy but I get goat’s milk kefir and add it to my smoothies. Need to be careful of sugar content. The berry ones have like 26 gr of sugar per serving. The plain has none. Also, with something like this Jo, you want to start small. Just a tablespoon for a few days. Also fermented saur kraut (not the kind you get in cans) and kim chee if you like spicey!

        • Jo November 13, 2017 at 6:42 am

          Thanks for your reply, did you do a test to see what your bacteria were ? And have you heard or used the acid organic test? I wonder if I need a test like that or will the gut bacteria rebuilt over time?

          Thanks

  41. J November 13, 2017 at 12:38 pm Reply

    I have sensitivities to bright lights, noise and ringing in the ears. Is that related to the Cipro toxicity as well for most of
    you ? And how were these symptoms relieved?
    Thanks for your help

    • Bronwen November 13, 2017 at 1:35 pm Reply

      Hi Jo – I did not have these symptoms, however, if you put these symptoms in the search box on this sight, you can find others who have (I tried, to be sure), and may have information they could share.

  42. melindahemmelgarn November 13, 2017 at 11:13 pm Reply

    Sorry I was away from my computer for most of the day. Here is the text from consumerlab.com – the site is definitely worth a subscription. This is copied from the consumerlab site.

    Question:
    Does Restore (Bionic Sciences LLC) really improve gut health? What is in Restore?

    Answer:
    Restore (Biomic Sciences LLC) is a liquid supplement containing trace amounts of minerals and amino acids. It is promoted to “restore gut health” as well as to “support respiratory wellness, combat environmental exposures, promote immune function and enhance mental clarity.” This is all apparently achieved by nurturing “the body’s protective membranes in the gut and in the blood/brain barrier, enabling these membranes to keep us healthy.”

    A one-teaspoon serving of Restore contains 150 mg of a “stabilized lignite extract.” (Lignite, also known as “brown coal” is a soft rock formed from peat, which is decayed vegetation). The product label indicates that it includes trace amounts of sodium, lithium, calcium, phosphorous, sulfur, bromide, potassium, iron, antimony, zinc, copper, gold, magnesium, alanine, glycine, histidine, isoleucine, methionine, threonine and valine.

    According to the website, the ingredients in Restore “tighten” the gap between the cells in the intestinal membrane, preventing potential toxins, such as glyphosate (the active ingredient in many commercial herbicides) and gluten (which can cause immune reactions in people with celiac disease or other symptoms in people with gluten sensitivity) from passing into the blood stream. It also notes that increased permeability of the lining of the intestinal membrane, sometimes referred to as “leaky gut,” has been observed in some diseases such as asthma, multiple sclerosis, Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis.

    Evidence:
    The company’s claims seem to be based on two, unpublished laboratory studies which found Restore reduced the decrease in epithelial “resistance” in human colon cells caused by exposure to either gluten or glyphosate. Despite the website’s claims that Restore’s formula is “scientifically proven,” there do not appear to be any published studies on the effects of this supplement in people. The “Science + Research” page of the Restore website (as of 6/29/16) lists only a grant application requesting that the U.S. NIH conduct a study, but there is no indication that such as study was approved or conducted.

    Dosage:
    The directions for use state that one teaspoon of Restore should be taken three times per day, and the website advises it should be taken before or with meals.

    Safety and side-effects:
    Water extracts of lignite coal can contain compounds with potential toxicity and exposure has been associated with kidney disease in some populations (Maharaj, Environ Geochem Health 2014). The Restore website claims this supplement has been shown to be “non-toxic on kidney cells even at high doses;” however, this data does not appear to be published or available on the website. There are no studies on the safety of Restore in people.

    The website states that some people experience constipation when taking Restore, and, if this occurs, advises increasing water intake, taking magnesium malate, or temporarily decreasing the dosage.

    Cost:
    An 8 oz. bottle of restore (a two-week supply) costs $29.95.

    Bottom line:
    Although the website and label for Restore imply it may be helpful for a range of conditions, there are no published clinical studies with Restore in people to support these claims or to demonstrate the safety of the product.

    I hope this is helpful.
    Best wishes on your recovery.

    • L November 13, 2017 at 11:20 pm Reply

      And I will again repeat that it helped me, and I have absolute confidence in my integrative internist’s recommendations. I don’t want to go through the whole thing all over again, and I believe you are new to this site. I have not seen your name before this. I was SEVERLY floxed. Maybe one of the worst cases on here. I have gone through 93 IVs, dozens of supplements and other treatments. When I find something that helped me I like to share it with the others. As for consumer lab….

      https://healthwyze.org/reports/348-evaluating-the-evaluators-from-consumer-lab

    • L November 13, 2017 at 11:23 pm Reply

      and by the way, per the above article…I have little faith in traditional allopaths or the FDA

      • Deb November 14, 2017 at 5:39 am Reply

        L
        This is changing the subject, but I’ve seen where you had dental work done after FQ toxicity. Did you have any trouble with novacaine? Thanks.

  43. melindahemmelgarn November 13, 2017 at 11:44 pm Reply

    Thanks so much for sharing the interesting review of Consumer lab. My personal experience with them — both Drs. Cooperman and Obermeyer were very positive. I find their reports to be quite extensive with citations to support findings. IF you believe Restore helped you, then I’m sure it did. But like you said, you also took it with probiotics, which likely had a favorable impact.
    Yes, I too was floxed over two years ago. I have not published my story (yet), but I understand the angst, terror and continued tendon pain. I found great comfort in the wonderful people who shared their time and experiences with me. The reason for my post about Restore is that I didn’t want to see you throw money away needlessly, and I had contacted Dr. Cooperman months ago re the mechanism of Restore. I’m a skeptic, so like to see research to back up claims. I wish I had been more skeptical when I was prescribed and took Cipro. I am still suffering from joint pain. Of all the approaches I tried, magnesium seemed to be most helpful.
    Wishing you good health.

    • Deb November 14, 2017 at 5:42 am Reply

      Hi Melinda,

      What type of magnesium did you use? And glad you are doing better.

  44. Deb November 14, 2017 at 5:37 am Reply

    Hi Bronwen,

    I think you had Herxheimer reactions. How long did yours last? I’m not sure if I’m having those reactions or if I just don’t do well overall with the supplement. I think you would try a supplement at a lower dose for two weeks if you had reactions.

    I had no problems with supplements before I took the antibiotic. Much thanks again.

    • Bronwen Duncan November 16, 2017 at 10:36 pm Reply

      Hi Deb – I agree. The cycles mentioned in my Nov 11 post seemed to be herx. How long they lasted depended on how much of something I took that was trying to heal me! After Liposomal Glutathione, two or three weeks, but usually just the dip in the cycle – so 3 days or so. And that is exactly I recommend to others too – reducing dosages – it is a fine balance between forcing a heal and pushing through herx. You have to listen so closely to the body – and not just follow a formula that worked for someone else.

      Bronwen

      • Deb November 17, 2017 at 6:45 am Reply

        Thanks!

  45. MEE November 16, 2017 at 9:34 am Reply

    hello bronwen..
    wondering if you had any tingling crawling feelings around the body/?
    if you did just wondering what you did and how long you had it for..
    any suggestions?
    And do you know what cold meds are okay for floxies?

    • Bronwen Duncan November 16, 2017 at 10:50 pm Reply

      Hi MEE

      I think I had little nerve damage – many others had more. I know I did have some (as noted in the story above) week one and two in the form of numbness in my hands and legs. I also had some weird tremor-like feelings. I have also assumed that some of the lingering pains I had were more structural – compromised tissues, tendons, etc. It is also possible that this could have been caused by nerve damage – pain come be generated by so many things – I guess I will never know.

      My approach would be two things – every thing in the body that needs to heal post drug is dependent on the health of the mitochondria – so I would take the magnesium, mitoQ, B-complex (with methylated forms of folate and B12 to boost the mitochondria energy-making ability and some kind of thing to help clear ROS (toxins) from your body such as NAC or glutathione (although please do your own research on this, as it is controversial). See my Sept 10 for more details on these. Lisa also has written about the mitochondria connection this site at: https://floxiehope.com/tag/mitochondria/

      The second thing I would do is put your symptoms in the search engine of this sight, and see if there are others who have written about these symptoms of yours as they may have suggestions that extend beyond mine.

      Please remember, however, every single body is different – every single body reacts to a fluoroquinilone drug differently (my theory is that if the mitochondria are compromised all over the body, they show up in different people in different organs). So, you must be your own detective, not only reading about options, but also noting how each approach/supplement is affecting you and adjusting accordingly.

      Wishing you healing!
      Bronwen

  46. Dee November 16, 2017 at 4:16 pm Reply

    Bronwen, this is kind of a crazy question as I am only 5 months out and still recovering. Made improvement but still battling brain fog, anxiety, insomnia and tinnutus! I hope they calm down in the next 2-3 months!! Did you experience any of these symptoms? The crazy question is that I love coffee and wine and have stopped both for now. I would try a glass of wine but with brain fog I thought maybe not a good idea and also a lot of wine has fluoride in it and I am trying to flush extra fluoride with sipping boron water. How do you do with coffee and wine now?? Was there a point when you started drinking both and do OK with it?? I know we are all different but just curious how you did with it??! Thanks!

    • Bronwen Duncan November 16, 2017 at 11:04 pm Reply

      Hi Dee – I wish I could advise you but I can’t. I did not experience these symptoms but many have – you might want to search in this sight’s search box for these symptoms to read the stories and contact others who have more experience with them.

      THe post just above yours – my answer to MEE might be worth reading. Also another thought is that magnesium threonate is a great magnesium for the brain – it reaches through blood brain barrier and can help with things like memory and brain fog. You can find some on Amazon.

      Regarding coffee and wine. Hmm. Again, it seems my experience was not typical in this regard. I did not stop drinking my one cup of coffee a day. I’d suggest drink half a cup and see what happens. YOU have to be your own researcher with the research project subject of yourself and your symptoms. As far as booze goes, I actually found one drink helped lessen my symptoms a bit when they were getting overwhelming in the evening – much to my surprise, but I have only ever read one other person that found the same thing – most find the opposite. Again, test yourself! I certainly could not have more than one drink. The liver is struggling along with the other organs, as the clearing house for toxins, so alcohol puts another burden on it. Milk thistle also helps the liver and sometimes I would take that and still do.

      Not sure I helped!
      Bronwen

      • Bet November 17, 2017 at 5:54 am Reply

        Hi Bronwen..I start suffering with ventricular heart arithmia after Cipro…..I m taking D-ribose L carnitine Magnesium and CoQ10…but without positive results….maybe I m taking not enough of each supplements…..any advice?thanks

        • Bronwen Duncan November 17, 2017 at 8:45 am

          Hi Bet – I just left a long reply that is not showing. I will try again later.
          Bronwen

        • Bet November 17, 2017 at 9:40 am

          Thank you….I m suffering of P.Neuropathy too…..any advice?

        • L November 17, 2017 at 9:46 am

          Bet, just want to mention, next time you purchase magnesium, get mag taurate…it has added benefits for the heart

        • Bronwen Duncan November 18, 2017 at 5:06 pm

          Can’t re-post the long reply. I sent to Lisa, who runs this sight, who will on my behalf on Sunday night when she returns to her computer.

  47. Betty November 18, 2017 at 7:37 am Reply

    for your long replay?

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