This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc. It contains stories of healing.
Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing. Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.
The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing. However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones. They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope. These are their stories.
This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones. It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones. There are people who don’t recover. Their stories are real and they matter. There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.
Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.
Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/
Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?
The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including Daniel, Cindy and Ruth. As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:
Hi my name is Karla and I am one month out of taking my last dose of cipro. I took 7 pills 500 mg each once a day for 7 days I didn’t start noticing symptoms until a week after I had major anxiety and stared having insomnia after always being able to sleep never experienced anxiety like now. My symptoms now are rapid heart beat (mainly in the mornings) brain fog still some trouble sleeping( hard to fall asleep wake up multiple times) hard to laugh or cry just mainly scared and anxious. Weight loss dry skin. I’ve been very rigorous on the magnesium protocol. Taking some chlorella turmeric b12 spray eating super healthy and juicing. Any advice on what is going on and what to do from here? Don’t wanna continue feeling down all the time.
Stay on the mag. I took up to 800 mg for the first year. Research the different types– some less likely to cause diarrhea. Avoid fluoride, gmos and add a good probiotic. Gut health is connected to so many illnesses, and all antibiotics and then especially destroy the good gut microbiome. (I lost 1/4 my body weight early on. Cipro just ravaged my gut.) Eat as clean as you can, but be especially careful about meat, chicken that could have antibiotics in them.
There are many posts on this site with good information on what to do early on. The good news is that you are catching this early. Lisa, (floxie’s hope’s “owner”) actually did a post on this very thing. Here it is. https://floxiehope.com/2015/10/12/im-floxed-now-what/
Check out CBD oil for the anxiety problem. Good stuff is expensive but it might help.
Hey Karla. Follow what L says, and read the recovery stories. Have magnesium baths every day and cover yourself in magnesium oil, it helped me quite a bit.
This place can be a double edged sword, so just read the good stuff and ignore the negative posts, it made me feel worse. You will fully recover but it’s going to take a while. I took 38 cipro, thought I was going to die but I have recovered. Try and get some exercise or long walks. Anna made a good post on the previous page, so read that too (‘older comments’).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzLMHZg5q0Y3US1pNVBVc21ubVk/edit … Have you read this article? It is written by a former toxicologist and retired university professor. It appears to be legitimate and if so the information in it is not encouraging to all of us. Read the article.
I’m glad this post has been dismissed as it is a very small research article and is not helpful in any way. I saw it on Facebook and certainly don’t agree with it’s conclusion s as it’s limited.
This article doesn’t explain in any way how “many” floxed people “fully” recover! It is extremely discouraging but if it were completely true then none of us would be improving and recovering. The professor doesn’t state how long he had been floxed as I think a lot of DNA cellular mitochondria can change to allow us to recover and improve. I think we need to continue our faith and hope in full recovery based on many success stories!!! That is proof enough for me!!!
Do they “fully recover”? Or is it just that they are fortunate enough that the symptoms have gone into remission?
> This article doesn’t explain in any way how “many” floxed people “fully” recover!
Yeah exactly.
I don’t put much faith in this article either. I’ve recovered to the point where I engage in the most tendon twisting sports you can imagine (surfing, rock climbing).
Don’t let this ‘paper’ bring you down.
Lisa,the research by J.King may be on a limited group of participants,but it’s only one of the many researches that prove this group of AB’s is capable of damaging DNA in mitochondria and nuclei.Read this article by Lisa:
https://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/10/23/genetically-modifying-humans-via-antibiotics-something-you-need-to-know/
And this article,too,might be of interrest:
http://www.myquinstory.info/fluoroquinolones-and-dna-adduction/
Thank you Henk. … I thought the article had enough validity and appeared to have the scientific laboratory backing to be of interest to the floxie community. It appears that there are a few in our community who would rather argue with the articles findings than add it to the information we are trying to collect to help us all better understand and deal with the problem of being floxed. Dissing any article for any reason is counter productive.
Thank you,Don.
Dr.J.King himself admits that this small research is too small for definitive conclusions,and he hopes that it will urge other scientists to do more research in the near future.
The fact that quinolones abduct DNA is known since 1992 and still só little research has been done since then can only amaze people and make them suspicious about the reason(s) why.This is how conspiracy theories are born.
This might partially explain the conspiracy theories,and how those are fed by facts:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257309170_Institutional_Corruption_of_Pharmaceuticals_and_the_Myth_of_Safe_and_Effective_Drugs
When Joe King first came onto the “floxie” scene I was as entranced and hopeful as anyone. I take people at their word when they say that they are Toxicologists who have done groundbreaking research about fluoroquinolones. After doing a little digging, and reading what he wrote critically, I concluded that Joe King is a fraud who is neither a Toxicologist nor a scientist of any kind. He doesn’t seem to understand what basic terms such as “control group” or “random sample” mean. I think that everything in his paper should be disregarded, and I regret writing & publishing anything that referenced his work.
Sorry if that’s woefully negative, but it is the conclusion I reached. There ARE scientists who are working on figuring out fluoroquinolone toxicity. I think we should concentrate on them and their findings. If you read through the “research” section of the Links & Resources page, you will find many articles about fluoroquinolones.
I wrote “It appears to be legitimate”. Thank you for stepping in so quickly to comment about “the legitimacy” of the article. Floxiehope.com needs good and sound information.
What about this?
http://fiu.academia.edu/JosephKing
Anyone can put a profile on academia.edu. Try putting up a profile saying that you are a professor – you’ll be able to.
Might be,Lisa,but a profile on that website doesn’t proof you’re a fraud,either. I’m curious about your aguments calling him a fraud,especially because other research seems to underwrite King’s findings.
He fraudulently told people that he was a toxicologist, he isn’t, and nothing in his so-called research is true. He is a fraud through and through.
Lisa,your comment sounds so very emotional. I’ve searched the web for over an hour to find sources for a Joseph King,toxicologist.The only source is this one,where he is even called Dr. Joseph King,toxicologist,by Theodore J. Richter, a contributer of that website.So,this was somebody else calling him Dr., and toxicologist,not he himself:
http://www.mindplasma.net/Root_Folder/Html_Files/Biography/Autobiography/To_Group_Health_Cooperative.html
In that little research,published under his name (just: Joseph King,no titles) he is mentioned only as being the research coördinator,not a toxicologist.So: he did not do the research but just the coördination of the research.Nr reason for blame,in my opinion.And nowhere in his writings I see him give false hope,or take away last hope.
I have a lot of respect for what you’re doing for the Floxies community but I have a feeling that,in the “King” case your emotions got the better of you. In fact, in that little research he is very clear: 6 persons is way to low to draw real conclusions but only indicates there’s something terribly wrong with FQ’s,and a lot more research needs to be done (these are the things I picked up fom reading that report,and in MY OWN WORDS.
So,don’t be so angry; it’s a waste of time and energy,and it’s (Kings report) only a drop in the ocean of information available on the web,and on floxiehope,for which I’m very gratefull to you and the other contributers.
May you all have a good weekend!
Henk, you say emotional like it’s a bad thing. It’s difficult to view information that may be fraudulent, or at the least irresponsible and NOT be emotional. I’m with Lisa on this.
I am out biking right now, so I can’t go through the paper point-by-point at the moment. But if someone claims to be a toxicologist and they are not, they are a liar and a fraud. Especially if they use that fake title to get frightened and injured people to believe their lies. He is a horrible person.
agreed. likely just looking for a little recognition for himself
The DNA adduct hypothesis is interesting, and I would love to see some actual research on it. Joe King’s paper is not actual research. It does nothing to help our cause and it may actually hurt it.
Yes, Henk, people who lie to gain the trust of people who are hurt with an under-recognized illness, then steal their hope by telling them that their DNA is irreparably damaged, make me angry.
Of course, everyone is free to draw their own conclusions. But I won’t have a link to his BS information on this site without warning people that, as far as I can tell, it is fraudulent.
Yes,I understand,Lisa.In my view he’s not a liar;because it’s not him,but someone else calling him a doctor,and a toxinocologist.His research is of minor importance,I think.
I admire you for placing a link to his “BS” anyway,and let other people descide what to think of it. I think it’s the right thing to do.
Have a nice sunday!
I should have prefaced my initial response with noting that there is a long, and somewhat painful, history with me battling Mr. King because I felt like he was misleading and harming the fluoroquinolone affected community. And, to be honest, I felt mislead and harmed personally too. I definitely have some emotional energy behind the whole thing. In some ways that’s good – because it comes from a place of caring about this community. However, I really could have explained things in a more rational and detached way. Henk, I hope that no offense was taken on your part, and that you have a nice Sunday as well!
Relax,Lisa;I don’t feel offended at all! I seriously tried to find info to confirm your vision of Joseph King but the only source where he was called a toxicologist,and even a Dr. was not written by himself.And in his paper he is only called by his name,and has no title mentioned,he is just mentioned as the research coördinator.So,don’t blame him,but put the blame on the person who falsely called him a Dr. and a toxicologist. One of the people behind that mindplasma website was wrong about Mr. King.
That said,your reaction,although on false grounds (my opinion) ,shows how much you care about the floxies community,and I love for that!
I hope,you have a nice sunday,too!
magnesium can act on the brain for some people in the same way as a benzo. https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/side-effects/201011/brain-damage-benzodiazepines-the-troubling-facts-risks-and-history-minor
I don’t see where it says that about magnesium
I’m just going to say that I probably was not ready and in too fragile of a state to have read that article. When I made the comment that some people seem to fully recover it is because I want to have hope and faith in fully healing and recovering. I tend to be a person who likes to think positive and reading an article like that can really take the wind out of your sail. I would like to believe that people do fully recover and are not just in some kind of remission. I don’t have enough scientific background or knowledge to question the validity or accuracy of the findings. I was obviously not ready to read such a negative article weather it is valid or not do I will go on thinking positive and believing in complete healing. That is the best any of us can do to get through this.
And that is the most offensive thing about it- it steals hope with lies.
Fluoroquinolone toxicity is awful as it is. The last thing people need is doom based on lies.
Even so you cannot get away from the fact that there are some people who do not recover and when one starts on this journey one does not have any idea whether recovery will come or not. I suspect for older floxies like myself full recovery does not happen even if there is improvement and one has to learn to live with the damaged body just as one has to learn to live with the degeneration of the body due to aging. Before my latest floxings in 2014 and 2015 I believe I was floxed in 1999 and “recovered” from it only to have a relapse in 2011. Was this the floxing in remission ? Who knows? Now at 3 years out ( and the 2015 floxing was only 1 capsule) and very little sign of healing I often wonder if this it. If anything my tendons are getting worse rather than better. Luckily my tendonitis is not disabling but I could do without the pain and feel I have to be careful not to stress them as I am frightened of a rupture. I have not read the article and am not sure I want to !
I NO longer believe in recovery after getting knocked down a 2nd time by septocaine. I do want to reduce my pain level and be able to walk into store again without taking 2 days to recover.
have you looked into full spectrum cbd oil (the kind with at least some thc?)
I have looked into CBD oil but not tried it yet except for cream which did nothing.
yeah, I got a cream too that did nothing. But I think it depends on the company, the ratio of CBD to THC. I’ve been doing my own research online re which brands get the best reviews. There’s a lot to learn!
Bob, I take CBD with a minute amount of thc, that’s legal here in Europe. It really helps me with insomnia but not pain. What really helps with pain is for me is Kratom. Google CBD Brothers, there is a lot of good info on their site.Also you have to really buy from a reputable company that does lab tests and publishes the results as as usual there are a lot of scammers out there. With CBD you have to start really low and slow and gradually build up. Again lots of useful info on facebook from CBD users.
Lisa I totally agree. http://www.foxnews.com/health/2018/09/07/patient-develops-black-hairy-tongue-from-medication.html
I think it was unfortunate that it was posted, especially seeing as how Lisa has no confidence in the author. Easier said than done, but just try to put it out of your mind. Also consider, it would be virtually impossible for anyone to make such all encompassing claims since there is still so much mystery surrounding flqs and how they work.
Thanks Lisa and L. I’m 14 months into recovery and have improved quite a bit. I’m just trying to stay positive, hopeful and faithful that I will mostly or even better fully recover! I have read so many recovery stories that give me hope and I guess the article just hit me the wrong way in the middle of trying to heal. I will try to put it out of my mind and keep moving forward!!! Thanks for all that you do and your positive encouragement!!!
I think spending too much time here if you’ve just been floxed is a bad idea. God help any new floxie who reads those stories/articles, and those that post them.
Of course you’ll recover and I’d be suspicious of anyone who says you wont. I took a break from here for months because of the anxiety it can cause. You’ve got to be in a positive environment to recover. Avoid those that like to play mind games.
Ray……Thank you!!! I needed to hear that!!!!! 🙂
Dee, you stay hopeful because you have every chance of recovery. Don’t forget the mind plays a huge part in recovery, so keep reading stories from people that ‘did’ recover, or got to a point that their lives are well on the way to recovery such as myself.
Ray is completely right in what he said. Just keep going until you get there xxxx
WOW!!! JUST WOW!!! Did I ever open a can of worms with my post and link to the Joe King thing. I guess from here on out I’ll just read and stop posting anything.
That’s the only thing I can think of that should have a Lisa-trigger-warning on the top of it. Sorry for that. It truly isn’t out of the blue, but I think I’ve said enough for everyone to know exactly how I feel, and there’s no need to re-hash the entire history.
Please post other things, Don. Please continue. Thanks!!
I totally agree with everything you say Lisa, and I want to thank you for your continuing vigillence in articles such as this.I am angry as well, and I certainly make no apology for that and neither should you. The complexity of fluroquinolones goes way deeper than this and there are so many variables. If we only took small research like this and said that’s it, we may as well give up and go home.So many diseases would have never been cured if it were not for ‘In depth’ research over many years. There are a lot of vunerable floxies that could be ‘tipped’ over the edge with articles like this, so in my mind it serves no purpose whatsoeve, because it ‘LIES’ Some floxies DO recover, and I believe you are one of them, and some floxies recover to a point they can ‘manage very well with their lives’ such as myself. To say there is ‘no cure’ over such a small research project is disgusting in my humble opinion. We just havn’t found it yet.
To have a debate over this is also ‘in my opinion’ a good thing, because it gives a balanced view and not just a doom and gloom point of view. However also ‘in my opinion’ it served no purpose in the first place and like I said could do the opposite and make things worse for those that are hopeful.
It’s classic passive-aggressive behaviour, with probable underlying mental health issues. I’m sure you’re more to be pittied than scolded. Maybe it’s a cry for help. I’m also pissed off I got floxed, I partially blame myself for trusting someone I thought I could trust. Keep taking the magnesium Don, you’ll get through it.
Dee, you stay hopeful because you have every chance of recovery. Don’t forget the mind plays a huge part in recovery, so keep reading stories from people that ‘did’ recover, or got to a point that their lives are well on the way to recovery such as myself.
Ray is completely right in what he said. Just keep going until you get there xxxx
Hi Barbara I totally agree. xx
Dee, here is a great positive site to keep hope alive http://www.holistichelp.net
Barbara, thanks for the “positive” website to look at!! Just curious….have you ever consulted with her for info, guidance or lab testing?? She had a lot of really good info!!!!
No Dee I haven’t, but I do like her site and her attitude, so thought it might give a lift to others.
Barbara. How long ago did you get floxed and how much did you take?? How recovered are you?? Just curious. You have such a positive attitude!! The biggest thing I get nervous about is my age. I am 62 so I worry a little more about completely recovering. Being 14 months out and having improved quite a bit gives me hope!! It is those last 20 yards in a 100 yard dash that make me worry and concerned!! Trying to remain hopeful!! At this point some of my symptoms cycle so I have some good days and then a cycle of bad days. Hard to understand why FQ poison works in such unpredictable ways but I guess I am healing!!!
Dee, I was floxed at the age of 71 years nearly 4 years ago. If you look on the sidebar here I wrote what happened to me called “First Do No Harm” That was in the very begining. I actually did not know what happened to me for around 7 months when after dozens of trips to the Doctor’s and tons of waste of time tests a Rheumatologist eventually diagnosed me after taking a medical history and found out I had been given cipro. Can’t remember the amount, but I took it for just over a week, I think twice a day. At the same time I was given cortizone injections, (great eh) for the next seven months I had been doing all the things I normally do but with great difficulty I was in a wheelchair for about 2 months.. In the begining I took every suppliment going if another floxie said it worked for them. I really don’t know if any of them helped me and I probably wasted a lot of money. After a nerve conduction test about 2 years ago I got really bad pain with peripheral neuropathy, even though the test was negative. I now believe, (only my theory) that because fluro’s pass the blood brain barrier, the brain sends false pain signals. The only thing that helped the pain at that point was ozone autohemotherapy, in fact I distinctly remember feeling completely ‘ normal’ for about a week. Unfortunately it was short lived, but when the pain returned it wasn’t quite as bad. I was also tested for arrythmia as I frequently got out of breath. That test also was negative, but I do get feelings of my chest being tight and sometimes breathless even today. I think, (don’t know) if the weather effects me, it’s been exceptionally hot here in Spain this year.
My symptoms now are
Peripheral Neuropathy, but I manage it with Kratom, CBD oil, icing, and the occasional ozone treatment.
On and off insomnia, I sleep 4 hours and sometimes can’t get back to sleep, other times I can. Again CBD oil seems to help with this.
Breathless ness, don’t know what that is. My blood pressure and heart are fine. I may go back and get tested again with a holter.
Fatique, I get tired easily, can’t do what I used to, but some days I have more energy than others. Could be my age, but a part of me refuses to believe that.
Overall, I just get on with life, I do things some would say I shouldn’t (I like a glass of wine now and again and the odd brandy oooops) I just think at my age sod it.
I have a really healthy diet, but I have the odd bit of bread (gluten) because when I was completely gluten free I kept a strict record and found absolutely no difference in the way I felt or less pain. But that’s just me, I know being gluten free for others has really helped them.
It’s been a long and bumpy road, and I have had some very dark times, however looking back, it’s been a slow process of improvement, never the less it’s improvement. I have an attitude of, I can either let this totally ruin what’s left of my life, or I can make the most of every day, and focus on what I can do rather than what I can’t. Age is just a number Dee, so put that out of your mind and focus on your healing. Don’t dwell on the negative, because it will not help you. When your down, let go and go with the flow of that. I blubbered my eyes out many times and it’s a good release.But I never stay there, I just give myself a good talking to after and get on with it.
You will be okay Dee, just do what’s right for you. Research everything, and take things slow with any new suppliments. Eat well and try to laugh a bit, that’s great medicine for the soul.
Barbara, awww thanks so much for your encouragement and your story too. I’m glad that at least “slowly” you are improving. It is interesting that you say the nerve conduction test increased your perphial neuropathy pain. That is not the first time I have heard that test seems to “irritate” your neuropathy? Since the ozone treatments helped you have you considered doing more over a longer period of time like several weeks of treatment?? I think I have been a little more concerned lately as I seem to be going through a little relapse with my nervous system again waking up early, anxious with loud tinnitus again. For a few weeks it had settled down. These relapses make me real nervous. You speak such good English! Are you born and raised in Spain or moved there later in life?? I actually have a lot of family in Spain as my father was raised there. My niece who grew up here in California where I live is living in Madrid and going to nursing school there!!! She learned Spanish in school and visiting Family in Spain but I am impressed with her attending nursing school with Spanish being her second language!! Anyway thanks again for the support. I am sorry you have had to suffer and that 4 years later you are still dealing with some fallout. I hope you continue to keep improving as I’m sure you will!!! Was your CNS hit very hard?? I’m mostly dealing with early morning anxiety, tinnitus that acts up off and on and especially GI distress (mainly in morning). Haven’t been able to quite get a handle on it!! These relapses that hit off and on are tough to go through but especially tough on your spirit!!!!
Weather, especially heat really effects me too. I had been doing ok, then got this congestion/post nasal drip/throat/chest thing going making it hard to breathe. I have been trying different things like supplements for allergies…no luck; supplements and diet changes for possible silent reflux—no luck; Chinese herbal medicine (might have helped a bit) and then yesterday, after months of hellishly hot weather, it cooled off. It was the first night I wasn’t up coughing and struggling to breathe. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.
I know too that a few months ago, before all this, I just didn’t feel very energetic and was advised to do infra red sauna. Well that lasted about a minute. Couldn’t take it.
The homeopathic doctor I was seeing suggested Kratom but he told me it was adictive. Do you take it everyday?
Dee, I am British, but I came to live in Spain 16 years ago. It’s flown by.
I initially had 10 sessions of ozone, later on I had 20 sessions of hyperbaric oxygen therapy. I was doing really well but then I fell down(or crashed into a palm tree after missing a step in Vietnam) and compressed my spine. Had to have special assistance all the way home. (I’m such a drama queen lol) I was in bed for a couple of months healing from that. So when I could walk again after that I had 10 more sessions of ozone at 2 a week, this really helped my recovery, also helped with PN. Touble is it’s not cheap, 100 euros a pop. So now I only go every month or so, he puts 1000mg of vit C in the ozone as well.
I wouldn’t worry about the relapses, as far as I can tell or have seen on social media everyone has them, it’s par for the course and normal for a floxie.
There is a great lady on facebook who justs googles any new or old symptoms and researches the best way to deal with them and has a lot of success.
For your anxiety I think CBD oil could be of great help as I have read it’s helped others with that a lot.Again make sure you research and get the right supplier as there are a lot of charlitans out there. Facebook CBD forums are really good for recommendations.
I don’t know about tinitus, that must be really annoying, but if it were me, again I would research that on natural healing for tinitus.
For your spirit, know that your not alone and someone will always understand what your going through. I lean on my husband as he’s really good for putting me back into balance. If you have someone you can talk to , do, it’s good to get it off your chest, and like I said have a good cry if you need to, much better than suppressing it. Then you can brush yourself down and start again.
Also try to take breaks from forums like this now and again if you suffer with anxiety, sometimes it can get to much. Do some meditation. Some good ones on utube for healing and relaxing. Learn breathing techniques, can be very helpful.
Pre bioctics ie (potatoe cooked any way) cooled in the fridge and then either eaten bit by bit cold or heated when you feel like it.(great for me because I’m a potatoeholic lol)
Pro bioctics, kefir, saurkraute (ug) etc great for a healthy gut and immune system. I can stand saurkraute, but I’ve just made some and I’m going to take a little bit every day, (holding my nose ) lol
At the end of the day Dee, believe in yourself and be kind to yourself. Talk to yourself as if you were talking to a dear friend. You will be okay xxxxxx
Re the kraut. I made a batch with cabbage, onion, carrot and some red pepper. Let it ferment for 21 days. It is different and not bad. The red pepper flavor comes through but not the onion. Try it.
Barbara. You are just so sweet. Thank you again for cheering me on and your suggestions!! I try to address my symptoms the best way I know how but as you know sometimes it just gets overwhelming. I guess some would say I am still early in my recovery at 14 months but I try to hang on to hope that I will be mostly better by that 2 year mark or even sooner would be better!! I just keep praying and I do my best to think positive and stay calm and relaxed. Much easier said then done!! You have had a lot of ozone treatments!!! I’m sure they have helped you a lot!!! Where do you live in Spain?? What brought you there???
How do you get the ozone into you? Do you have a port?
Hi Barbara – ditto for the weather this year though I am sure the heat has been worse in Spain. During the heatwave here at the beginning of this month I felt quite ill and have recentlly had another afib attack. I suspect this is due to stress as well as the heat and also digestive problems. I have recently had my post op colonoscopy to check the surgical join and every time I have had one I have suffered from bloating ,burping and acid reflux after meals. My surgeon said the purging prep does nearly as much damage to the microbiome as antibiotics. My first two attacks of afib were after Cipro and I get breathless too from time to time. But one just has to keep soldiering on! Have you tried NAC ? I think it really helps with keeping the lung secretions more fluid and I read it helped with relaxing artery walls as well.
Hi Madge,
Your right, us golden oldies just soldier on lol. Well we havn’t got much choice have we.
I have taken every suppliment under the sun in the past including NAC. Now I just take magnesium and in the winter vitd 3 and k2.
For sleep issues CBD oil
For pain Kratom when I really need it. That’s about it apart from a really healthy diet, with a glass of wine now and again.
For me it’s mostly the lack of energy after or during shopping, or walking to far. It’s just like the plugs been pulled out of me. Very frustrating. Maybe it will be better when this high heat goes. I find myself longing for a cold day, never thought I would want that.
I too seem to do worse in the heat…and here in CA where I live it was up over 100 for over a month. Sadly, with climate change it is supposed to get worse. I wonder what it is about the heat that exacerbates side effects.
Has anyone here tried the Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution? I think it costs like $40, which I would be willing to pay if it offered more info than just increasing magnesium intake. Can anyone vouch for this toxicity plan?
Hi Anna, looked at their website and I think it’s very aggresively advertising it’s book. Also found the claims over the top,and not very trustworthy. And what about this:
<> Never seen this eating guide;what connection have these “professionals” with FloxieHope?
This is their website,and I think it smells fishy:
https://www.fqtoxicity.com/
Yes, Henk, I agree. My guess is, they suggest supplements and Magnesium intake, which we all already know.
Sorry;between these I forgot to paste this: FREE GIFT,which you get when you buy their book,on the fqtoxicity website:
<>
Never seen this guide;not even knew it excisted.And do they really have permisson to give this as a free “extra” when you buy their book? Lisa,please,tell us what’s the matter,here.
I don’t trust these two websites AT ALL !!
Strange;the quote from that website disappeared two times out of my reply.Here it is:
The FloxieHope Eating Guide. An EXCLUSIVE BONUS only for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Owners. Packed full of great tips on how to eat to heal. Our friends at FloxieHope wanted to charge $15.00 for this info, but we talked them into giving it to you as a FREE BONUS
And how about this claim:
<> They solve our FQ-problems and slash our cancer-risk as well,and all in a 130 pages book.
As trustworthy as my doctor:” I never heard any complaints about Cipro and I don’t want to hear yours,either”.
There are quite a lot of quacks and frauds (with a Dr. title,as well,like my doctor) in the “orthodox” medical world as there are in the alternative medical world.Money is their main god!
And again,the quote disappeared. Here it is:
Page 28: Slash your risk of cancer in HALF by doing this one thing. This alone is worth more than the price of the book in the health and well-being of you and your family.
Also found a related website,where you are (again, aggressively) pushed to their book-selling website:
https://fqresearch.org/contact-us/
How I,and you know they’re related: Because the fqresearch staff is,again and again,pushing people visiting their website to the fqtoxicity website,to buy their extremely expensive book ($40 for an E-book of 136 pages!).
The two “professionals” who wrote the book are a nurse and a massage therapist,so,they’re NOT educated in anything related to these antibiotics and their problems AT ALL! In my opinion they are,just as too many others on the web,trying to make an easy profit out of other people’s misery.
Be warned!
Anna and others who want my take on The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution, please read this post – https://floxiehope.com/2014/11/25/the-fluoroquinolone-toxicity-solution-ebook/.
Here is the gist (an excerpt from the post linked above):
Here are some of my thoughts on The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution –
It’s a really honest and upfront e-book. It is acknowledged in The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution that there are no easy answers about Fluoroquinolone toxicity. (Please don’t expect to find a cure for FQ toxicity in the e-book – as of yet, none has been discovered.) However, there are some things that help people suffering from FQ toxicity and people do recover. Guidance as to what to do, and what to avoid, can be found in the e-book.
If you’re looking for supplement guidance, The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution provides a lot of good information and assistance in navigating supplements. The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution provides guidance about what supplements to take, and explanations as to why they are recommended.
Some sensible diet advice is provided in The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution.
Do-it-yourself physical therapy tips are included in The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution.
There is information in The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution about how fluoroquinolones damage cells. The information is presented in a very easy-to-understand way.
It’s hopeful. The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution points out that cellular damage, even mitochondrial and DNA damage, can be repaired.
Many of the tips that are in The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution can be found in the stories on Floxie Hope. However, The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution puts a lot of good information into one easy-to-understand e-book that you can reference over and over again. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of Floxies have found it to be a helpful guide.
Thanks for posting. I know it is easy for people to be suspicious of everyone, having had their trust badly damaged by those in the medical community. But I can recall posts from others saying that they found value in the book. I wonder if it offers anything that I have not already done. I especially wonder re ” (it) points out that cellular damage, even mitochondrial and DNA damage, can be repaired.” Does it give information on how to do that?
A doctor working with HormonesMatter.com told me to take Thiamine to assist in healing mitochondria. Supposedly, that is the number one supplement for Mitochondria repair.
Interesting. I’m gonna do a little searching around on that. (I also had jotted down thiamine for something else—can’t remember now.) I had been taking about 6 other supplements that are supposed to help: ubiquinol, acetyl l-carnitine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, NAC, resveratrol, pqq, Uh—so sick of supplements. Especially when I am taking 6 for one issue and then 8 more for other issues. Thanks for the post
Here is what she emailed me, “Order the thiamine online — ecological labs, amazon, allithiamine.
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/navigating-thiamine-supplements/
Please read the posts on thiamine, what forms are required and how to dose. You’ll likely need 200-300mg per day and it will require that you titrate up gradually.
Unfortunately, coffee too causes problems because it contains and enzyme that deactivates thiamine. Sugar/carbs do as well. Look up thiamine deficiency on our blog and online and you’ll see that you fit. You can also look up beriberi, the old term for thiamine deficiency. If you are on hormonal birth control, that too causes problems, a bit different, but creates an environment that can wreak havoc on all sorts of systems. The eye issues can be explained by both birth control but a different set via cipro – likely some swelling that has yet to fully foment and be visible. It’s complicated because the reaction is cumulative to a bunch of potential interactions. Nevertheless, the most important among the mitochondrial nutrients is thiamine.
”
https://www.pureformulas.com/allithiamine-vitamin-b1-50-mg-60-capsules-by-ecological-formulas.html?CUSTOMTRACKING=CUSTOMTRACKING&CAWELAID=847733950&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=61402356212&CATCI=pla-300685296414&CATARGETID=530005240008780909&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv-DaBRCcARIsAI9sba94GDCQzqzqZG-0iJoW7vbKDu03DMLgecJ6SipmiBkbziFhm6niEeEaAvDdEALw_wcB
Thanks for all the info. I just check my B complex that I take by Life Extension (with folate instead of folic acid because I have that mutation…I’M A MUTANT!) and it already has 100 mg of thiamine. Maybe I will just add to that. Thanks again.
Supposedly, as I was told, the B1 (thiamine) found at CVS for $10 is not the correct kind.
Please never utter the letters CVS. I can’t even look at their logo anymore.
Not surprised. I get all my supplements through my local health food store or Vitacost, and only well-trusted lines.
Sorry,Lisa,but,while you admit there is no known cure for FQ-toxicity their whole website tries to convince visitors that THEY FOUND a cure,and it’s in the book. They even claim that you have to do only ONE thing (and of course;it’s in the book) to slash your risk of getting cancer IN HALF! And when you buy their book,you will get your book on FQ and food FOR FREE! No,it’s not for free; it’s part of the $ 40 you pay. An extremely high price for an E-book (no trees killed for this one,and no paper bought and print-costs spent for it,either).
That’s what concerns me about this book: the totaly-over-the-top claims,the emotional blackmailing ( Slash your risk of cancer in HALF by doing this one thing. This alone is worth more than the price of the book in the health and well-being of you and your family. You’ll want to share this one bit of information with everyone you love!).
And how about ” A Total Solution Created By Medical Professionals” (a nurse and a masage therapist, that is!). And this one: “”Everything inside the protocol is based on research, lab reports, and testing of real people who actually DID get better” and “It’s proven and it works!”Another one:”Why would you take the advice of people online who admit they didn’t even recover, when you can get a step-by-step protocol that’s been proven over and over to work?” Or:”There IS a solution to Fluoroquinolone Toxicity…”
Fear mongering: “Even worse, not dealing with the metabolic issues that CAUSED you to become sick could put you at risk for even greater health problems later on…”
By the way: most of the time they talk about “Getting better”,which is NOT the same as getting healed but just the opposite of “Getting worse”.Well;most of us got better over time but none,or just a few of us got healed;meaning: A total recovery.
They admit they found quite a bit of good advices on FloxyHope,and probably some other websites as well,made an E-book out of this info and put it on the web for an absurd price. Well,I know a website,here,in the Netherlands,about simple,easy to make recipies. That young couple put some recipies “of themselves”on the site and asked visitors to send them their recipies.They put the best recipies,most of those coming from people who sent theirs,in a book and now earn money selling that book.Honest? Don’t think so.
In short: they used “our”advices,added some they found themselves,on the web (instead of putting those advices “back into the group”,that is: the Floxies community, and urge us to buy the book,if not for ourselves,than,for our family and for the other ones we love. And it will only cost you “only” $40 (untill now I’ve seldom seen an E-book cost that much;it’s only about 130 pages!).
Again:sorry,Lisa,but I don’t like the way they promote this book,and I think the price is wááááy to high.
These kind of things make me quite emotional.
Henk……….. I am going to probably open another can of worms here but I have been mulling this over for some time now. I think that the use of the words “recover” and “heal’ should be replaced with the word “remission”. Is anyone who has relapses healed? Is anyone who has relapses recovered? Are they instead in “remission”? I see criticism by people who claim the “recover” and “heal” gives them hope. Well it appears to me that anyone in remission has just as much hope that a relapse won’t happen.
OK contributors …….. Let me have it. Give me you best shots.
Well,Don,healing and recovering,for me,actually mean the same: getting (almost?) as healthy as you were before you got sick/poisoned. There’s quite a difference with getting better (then you were after getting sick): although you are better than at your worst point of being sick,this might be far from being (totally) recovered. That’s why I’m getting angry when people play this kind of nasty word-games in an attempt to sell something,be it a book with a claim that it brings “a solution’,or a “miracle” supplement.
Henk, when I first knew I was floxed, diagnosed by a Rheumatologist, I found this book. From knowing absolutely NOTHING I found out I had been poisoned and how to begin to try and repair myself. When you buy the book you also get access to their forum where you can get advice and feedback. Kerri Knox has Hashimotos disease and has managed to help herself with years of research around vitamins, healthy eating etc.I would not of known about magnesium or any of the other stuff in the begining if I had not found the book.
However the title is misleading, it is not a “solution” if that were the case we would all be healed and I did mention this to Lisa at the time she decided to endorse it on this site. She agreed with me and actually wrote that somewhere here, can’t remember where exactly.
There is a lot of good information in the book for beginners and even now I refer back to it sometimes. Kerri Knox is very knowledgable and although I agree with you about the selling side, she along with her partner Josh have to make a living, which I have no problem with as she has done tons of research on floxies behalf. Also no one has to buy anthing after they purchase the book and get access to her forum, where she will answer any questions you may have or advise you for free. She also tells you when she doesn’t know the answer to your question.
If I was newly floxed I would find this book invaluable, now we know a lot more and can research for ourselves, so it’s not worth it, in my opinion if you are a seasoned floxie.
I understand your disdain for the type of advertising used, and I don’t entirely disagree. However, I do disagree that $40 is exorbadent. It’s less than a copay for seeing most doctors. I spent far more than that on entirely useless doctor appointments where the doctor told me that I was perfectly healthy and that I should take benadryl for the hives that covered my body. $50 Was just the copay for that gem – it cost the whole system significantly more. Anyway, the ebook provides information that has actually helped people – unlike my (former) doctor. Is it worth $40? I think so, but I suppose it depends on how much $40 means to you and how useful you find the advice. If it’s useful, it’s worth it. If not, they have a refund policy.
Lisa,I don’t think comparing the price of an E-book with the price for a doctor’s visit is not realistic.Nor honest.Sorry.
OK you two (Lisa and Henk) this site is not for arguing and bantering over personal opinions.
Neither one of you is going to change the others mind so I think it is time to drop the issue.
This site should not be for complaining so much (mine included). It should be for support of each other and exchange of ideas. Granted what works for one my be detrimental to another but we should all have the opportunity to investigate them without the clutter of personal bantering.
Enough is enough. Shake hands and return to your corners!
Please bear in mind this is Lisa’s site. She has put in untold hours to keep it up and keep people informed and we all owe her a huge debt of gratitude. I understand Henk’s concern with perhaps inflated claims, but I think Lisa has more insight/info to the author’s of this book. If I ever had “the cure” I would let all of you know about it for free…but then that comes from the torture of having lived with this. And having spent now somewhere around $40,000 to get to where I am today, $40 for a book really doesn’t seem out of bounds. If, as Lisa says, there is a return policy I would definitely look into that.
Totally agree L
You are right,Don. I just wanted to spare other people from spending too much money for buying this E-Book,mainly because of the exaggerated claims and the emotional blackmailing.And I DO find the price way too high.Even for a printed version I would have found $40 way too high! It’s only ca. 130 pages;even some of my comments are longer ;-))
When I got hefty healthproblems after an AB course (Amoxicciline and Metronidazole,I spent all the money I had on supplements and other stuff,advised by others,and although some of those did help a bit,all together got me nowhere;just took all my money.ALL my money!
Then I re-discovered the Beck Protocol (I had read things about it years before but didn’t need it at the time).This man,Bob Beck,developed a way of treating infections (viral,bacterial,fungus…),based upon a discovery by two MD’s.He invented a device,called it the Blood Purifier (now,for political reasons,Silver Pulser),and put ALL the information on how to build and use it on the web,complete with component layout and build advices.
He also gave lectures about this discovery,and the way his protocol works.In the meantime he had discovered that the Blood Purifier didn’t reach the deep tissue and had developed the Magnetic Pulser,and found a cheap way to build a device for create magnetic pulses,stron enough to reach nthe deeper tissue.This information,too,he spread on the Internet and with lectures (still available on Youtube,and on bobbeck.com, a website,dedicated to this remarkable man),and,again,FOR FREE!
Well,after having spent all my money on things that didn’t help much I ,with some help from a friend,built the Blood Purifier (still use that name because that’s what this device does),and I built the Magnetic Pulser,and started to use both,and after 2 weeks (!) the main problems I had for 3 years(!),loose stools and an extreme intolerance for sugar and all other forms of carbonhydrates!
Since then these devices have helped me countless times,and as soon as I found the money,I bought the very well-built devices from Sota Instruments,which are more comfortable to use and built to last years;money,well spent.
Now you might understand why I don’t like (don’t want to use the word “hate”) people who try to enrich themselfes on the misery of others: those who asked gold for their “solutions” didn’t do much more than just take my money.And Bob Beck,who refused to take a penny for all his research,and for developing the devices and finding a way to make colloïdal/ionic silver at home.Now his electrolyse method is used all over the world and the devices and coll./ionic silver sold,by greedy people,while Bob Beck didn’t earn a penny.I have a tremendous respect for that man!
I didn’t want to hurt Lisa in any way,believe me.Have a lot of love and respect for her,because of what she does for us,starting and maintaining this website.But that doesn’t change my opinion about greedy people,be it doctors,people who sell “the thing that rally works” or politicians who help making that grabbing possible because it fits nicely in their agenda’s.
Have a nice day,Don (and you,all :-)),and thank you for the slap on the fist;I deserved that one ;-))
If the doctors visit is a total waste of money but you get some value from the book then I think it is a very good comparison. I bought it when jt was still called The Levaquin Tendonitis Solution. I found it helpful at the time. It was money better spent than the Cleveland Clinic neurologist who told me, and I quote, “You know more about this than I do.”
That’s almost preferable to “it can’t be from the cipro.” At least they are honest…but I thought Clevenland Clinic had a naturopathic “wing.”
They have a functional medicine clinic which was started by Dr. Mark Hymen. They had such a demand it took a year to get in. They were in a hurry to hire a lot of doctors that aren’t that Good in my opinion. Plus they don’t do Iv’s, ozone etc that some other doctors in the area do.
wow. That’s surprising they don’t do IVs and ozone. At least they are headed in the right direction.
Dee, yes 14 months is early days and you sound like your doing okay so far. This is a marathon not a sprint unfortunately. However we are all different and others have healed in less time.You could be one of them, I just don’t know. Who knows ??
It does without doubt get overwhelming but that’s when you have to dig even deeper and keep going. Like I said you sound like your doing okay so far on this bumpy road.
We came to Spain because my husband retired early and we were wanting to live the dream in warm weather. The UK is very beautiful but the weather there generally sucks. However this year I’m fed up with the heat, it wears me out. (Never satisfied) and I have longed to go home (but don’t tell my husband lol)
I live inland in a spanish town half an hour from the City and coast of Alicante. We have had to learn Spanish as no one speaks English here except of course a few ex pats like us.
We have had some good times here and even when I got floxed, it was still good. But now I’m getting homesick, because my husband has some health issues and we are waiting for a prognosis. So that will probably be anther battle to fight. In the meantime we continue to just get on with life. I am sitting here in our garden with a glass of vino looking at the mountains, it’s been a better day today.
Barbara. Ohhhhhh a glass of vino in a beautiful garden looking at the mountains just sounds so wonderful!!!! I have been a wine drinker all my adult life. I stopped drinking when I got floxed. I have been afriaid to drink. Fluoride in the wine (especially Ca wines) and just having had a lot of brain fog although it is quite a bit better!! Have you continued drinking wine since originally floxed or did you stop for awhile and then start up with it again?? I want a glass of wine sooooo bad but scared! What is your experience with it???? I hope your husband’s health will get better soon. Good thoughts sent for his healing.
Wine drinker here too! Dee, I stopped drinking wine when I was floxed. But at around the 1 1/2 year mark, I decided to take a chance. I am happy to say…no problems! (although recently I stopped again to see if my congestion issues might be related to silent reflux…I am thinking less and less though and will again have wine.)
So, this is what I get. I go to Trader Joes and buy Albero (there are two different reds…one I like and one–not so much, but I think the one I like has a darker red label. Anyhow, it is made with organically grown grapes AND it is from Spain, most of which does not use fluoride…so win/win. It costs 5.99 I think.
L. Thanks for the tip on the wine from Trader Joe’s!!! I will give it a try!!! I am and was thinking about waiting until that year in a half mark too?? I could maybe try a little now but was kind of concerned about my brain fog and GABA damage I had so much of. I just wasn’t sure how wine would affect all that?? Hopefully and eventually I can enjoy my vino again!!! I sure do miss it!!!
Dee, I never really stopped having a glass of vino. Only for a couple of weeks when I was trying to loose weight. Made no difference to me. However here in Spain there is no flouride in the wine. Cheers . If you want to try, just have a small glass to start and see how you feel. Don’t worry it won’t perminantly hurt you. It’s a natural drink. Some floxies can’t take any alcohol, luckily I’m not one of them.
I am a little scared to drink wine because of pretty bad brain fog first few months and also GABA receptor damage. Wine affects your brain so am apprehensive. You are lucky you could keep drinking it! I think if I drank wine it would definetly help my anxiety!! It sounds like you dealt more with neuropathy rather than CNS symptoms?? I will have to try some a little at a time. I’m sure it will take awhile to build up to even one glass of wine!!!
Bob,
Here is just one website to learn about Kratom. redstormscientific.com
I only take it when I really need it for pain. You can build an intolerance up to it if you over use. As for being addictive, it’s the same as anything else, only if you abuse it. For me it’s an amazing natural painkiller, but trying to get it down you is a challenge. I normally take it in a small coffee, but there are various other ways as well. This site gives you plenty of info.
A doctor from the Hormones Matter site suggested Thiamine supplements, which is crucial for mitochondria repair. That’s also worth checking into.
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/fluoroquinolone-reaction-one-pill-cipro/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/270419
Topical Fluoroquinolones can be just as bad as IVs or ingesting by mouth!
ciprofloxacin eye drops
Excerpt from article:
The patient was prescribed ciprofloxacin eye drops, 1 drop hourly, in each eye. About a half hour after the third dose, the patient complained of dizziness and light-headedness. Following this, family members noted a distinct change in the behavior of the patient, who began to have well-defined visual hallucinations, ill-defined auditory hallucinations, and irrational conversation. The next day, the patient was seen in the emergency eye department, accompanied by her mother, with increasing behavioral problems. A psychiatric opinion was sought. The patient was deemed to have had an acute psychotic reaction secondary to topical ciprofloxacin. The patient was advised to stop using ciprofloxacin eye drops (nearly 24 hours after initiation of treatment) and began taking teicoplanin (1%) eye drops. Within about 12 hours of changing the treatment, the patient and family members noted an improvement in behavior and within a further 12 to 14 hours, the hallucinations and behavioral disturbances disappeared completely. The patient was later able to describe her visual and auditory hallucinations in detail. The conjunctivitis responded completely to the teicoplanin regimen.
COLLOIDAL SILVER WOULD HAVE PROBABLY BEEN JUST AS EFFECTIVE AS THE CIPROFLOXACIN without any side effects.
A silver solution has been used for years in new born’s eyes to stave off any infections.
After my eye injections for AMD the assistant wants to put an antibiotic eye drop in my eye.
I asked what it was and she told me Ofloxacin.
I SAID NO WAY!!!!
I mentioned this to the eye doctor and asked him if there was another antibiotic eye drop he could give me.
His answer was ……….. “No”. “That’s the only antibiotic we keep in house”.
The damned doctors just don’t seem to get it!!!
Thanks Don, may give it a try after I use up what I have, if I can. Lol
Make a new batch and mix it with what you are using now.
Hi Barbara and Don,
Do you all ever try store bought sauerkraut? I bought some Bubbies yesterday. I have never made my own. Is it much better than store brands?
Almost all (if not all) grocery store bought sauerkraut is pasteurized. Heat kills off the beneficial bacteria that is in the sauerkraut. As I understand it sauerkraut bought in health food stores is not pasteurized (heated) so the good bacteria is still there.
Home made sauerkraut is never heated while fermenting. It just sits there on the counter for 3 weeks at room temperature.
The nice thing about home made is that one can add things that improve the flavor of the finished product.
Hi Don,
I think Bubbies is naturally fermented for a few weeks. Thanks!
Ehy gys, just a thought.
Every now and then, I google Fluoroquinolones and then look at google news. Every month or so, there’re plenty of news from all over the world reporting cases of fq induced side effects, FDA warnings or restricting laws etc, so it’s clear that something is moving in the right direction. But, even with all this infos, how is still possible that these dummies (doctors) are still prescribing this s**t so freely ???
I wonder about this every day Andrea! Just go to Lisa’s resource tab and you can scroll forever through studies, news articles, video reports…and yet it is still big pharma’s best kept secret. It boggles the mind. And sadly, it seems every week on floxie hope, there is a new victim!
That’s what I thought L.
Every week or 10 days there’s a new victim posting on this website. Only on this website…they say it’s rare…I don’t think it’s that rare afterall. I think, there’re planty of us, but many can’t make the connection between the drug and the damage because these side effects are so tricky in the way they hit you, sometimes. Still this is not an excuse for these dummies, to keep prescribing this dangerous s**t. Do they understand it’s like playing russian roulette? I remember the head of that neurologic clinic I went to this winter. He was so sure and confident when he told me that there’re no scientific evidence of neurological damage caused by FQ. He admitted only the “Achilles tendon” part. What an ignorant and arrogant p**k. Just Google it, damn it!
Just a comment about my latest experience with an IGNORANT doctor. I went to see my dermatologist. Now he is a certified DO. Usually the visit only lasts about 5 minutes in which he racks up about $300 in charges. Now to the idiot part. He always asks me “how are you”? I told him that I was dealing with Fluoroquinolone Toxicity. He asked when I “think ” I was exposed. I told him last October at and ER visit I was given a Leviquin IV. His comment (as he was leaving the room after our 5 minute visit) by now the Leviquin should long be out of your system”. Just another example of a totally uninformed and ignorant doctor. And he can write prescriptions too.
“When do you “think” you were exposed?” I can name the date, the hour…as I suspect most of us can.
And as for his comment about it leaving the body by now. GRRRRR. This was a peeve of Dr. Jay Cohen. In his book “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The Worst Medication Disaster in US History”, I went through and marked certain passages to share with physicians. This is on page 72. You might want to share it yourself. “It is disappointing and discouraging when I hear stories of people with obvious FQ reactions going from doctor to doctor and being told the symptoms cannot possibly be related to the antibiotics. To say a side effect cannot persist after the drug has exited the human system is total ignorance of basic pharmacology.The entire field of toxicology is predicated on the fact that many drugs have toxic effects that last long after the drugs have exited…eg liver failure from…Lipitor…what is so hard to understand about that?”
When was my “exposure”? I was in on the clinical trials before the drug Cipro came to market. Through some “lousy” doctoring a doctor turned a simple urinary tract infection into a chronic prostate infection. For 25 years I was shuffled among 7 Urologists, 3 gastroenterologists and a couple infectious disease doctors. From them I had every antibiotic in the arsenal thrown at me and the infection would retreat (e Coli has the ability to hibernate) and as soon as the course of antibiotic is completed come back again. I was given Septra/Bactrim every day for 18 months and it never stopped the infection.
When I was enrolled in the clinical trials of Cipro the infection was subdued. CIPRO WORKED!!!
I shortly began to have problems again. The infectious disease doctor decided I need to take Amoxicillin. I would take Amoxicillin and feel better and then the e Coli would return. He would switch me from Amoxicillin to Cipro. This went on for a year or so. Back and forth, back and forth.
Through some very sophisticated lab work by a close friend who was the chief microbiologist in our County Hospital laboratory I found that I had “a compound” infection. I had e Coli (a gram negative bacteria which was susceptible to Cipro ) and I also had Enterococus (a gram positive bacteria which Cipro did not seem to touch) Amoxicillin did work on the Enterococus. So the Infectious disease doctor kept switching me back and forth. I asked him “why can’t I take them both at the same”? He would never approve!!!
I did it anyway and stopped the merry go round.
For the past 31 years I have used this combination every time the UTI hit me. Over 31 years I have had maybe 1,000 Cipro pills.
Last October I became very sick and thought it was the flu. I went to the ER. It was determined that I did not have the flue but another UTI. Immediately the ER doctor directed that an IV of Leviquin be started. After that I was switched to another IV antibiotic which history had proven to be ineffective. I was in there for 30 hours and from my past experience I could see they were not on the right track. I told them that I was leaving. Official discharge or not I was leaving.
I came home and started a 10 day regimen of Cipro/Amoxicillin with Colloidal Silver too.
At the end of the 10 days the infection was gone.
Now after this long winded explanation the answer to your question. When was my “exposure”? My problem has been going on for 56 years. My exposure to Fluoroquinolones has been over a period of 31 years. I always wondered why I did not feel “right”.
After my dose of Leviquin and 10 days of my “combo drug mixture” I began to feel worse.
I went to the internet and found this site. Finally,finally, finally I found a reason for “not feeling right”. This is the point at which it all began to make sense.
Through my ignorance and the doctors approvals I DID THIS TO MYSELF.
Interesting, since even the FDA added a warning about possible permanent nerve damage. Like I said before, of all the non-believing doctors I saw the absolute worst, most arrogant, most demeaning, was the neurologist.
Several years ago Dr. Charles Bennett, a drug safety researcher at the University of South Carolina–who has been instrumental in getting new warnings added– estimated (extrapolating from the FDAs own figures, since only 1 in 10 it is estimated report) that at that point (2015?) 300,000 had DIED and millions had been injured by fluoroquinolones. I suspect it is even much much higher than that, because I am betting that reporting in some countries is less than 1 in 10. And because, as you pointed out…so many go months, years (maybe never) realizing that it was the flq that caused their illness, because they were mistakenly “diagnosed” with chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, lupus, Guillain-Barre, etc.
L…..I go to a private hospital and have the ozone through an IV. He takes out a bag of my blood injects it with ozone from a machine and also puts in vitc 1000mg. Then through IV puts it back in me again. Ozone autohemotherapy. He also does operations on backs using ozone. When I fell down I had a really painfull coccyic and he gave me an ozone injection twice, a week a part. Cured it. He’s been an ozone Doc for 20 years so knows what he’s doing.
Thanks. How many vials of blood to you need withdrawn to do that? I have had over 100 IVs but since I was getting H2O2 I didn’t get the ozone. Too much overlap.
Still new victims on the French floxie forum I frequent too. In Europe we are hoping the EMA report will make a difference.
Yes and the number will continue to increase because ill informed (and here I must put forth the notion that they are WILLFULLY UNINFORMED) doctors continue to “flippantly” write prescriptions for the Fluoroquinolone antibiotics.
Until doctors (the first line in this issue) are held accountable the carnage will probably continue. We must remember that the reason a doctor’s business is called “a practice” is because that is what it appears to be.
At this point any doctor prescribing these drugs for anything but life threatening conditions should be sued. With the latest warnings I think someone could prevail in a case like that.
I was thinking about this issue and the thing that I came up with is that every doctor who wanted to prescribe a Fluoroquinolone should be required to file an “exception” report along with each prescription. MANDATORY or a stiff fine and after a few violations loss of license.
Do you suppose that would wake up a few million doctors?
That’s not going to happen. But if some of them start losing lawsuits they will drop cipro like a hot potato.
I do not think it should even be available in pharmacies. The only acceptable situations for it to be prescribed should require a hospital setting. With a witness to sign that the patient was coherent and fully explained the devastating potential side effects.
YES!
Could not agree MORE. Money is the only thing they seem to respond to.
I hope so too. Please post when you hear anything on that.
I may need dental anesthesia for a dental procedure soon. I have had some dental discomfort for about a week and I am about 14 months out from floxing. I have been feeling a fair amount better and really don’t want to get worse from dental anesthesia. I haven’t been to the dentist yet. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what kind of dental anesthesia works well for floxies?
Thanks.
Like everything else it is truly individual. I was severely damaged by cipro and needed dental work during the worst of it. I found a holistic dentist (no fluoride and bio compatible procedures and materials. I was given septocaine and had no problems, but I recall someone else on this site saying that they did. It is free from aniline which is thought to be a carcinogen, and so a better option than lidocaine or carbocaine. But also be sure to avoid nitrous oxide! (It’s no laughing matter. Bad pun. sorry.)
Daniela May 18, 2015 at 8:54 am
Thanks, Deb, but the link is just a login. What were you linking to?
Linda, I’ve contacted so many of these dentists but they won’t speak to me about anesthesia unless I come in, and they are not in my area. Could you ask your dentist what you used? It would be a great help to me to have some suggestion of what a floxed person has used successfully.
Linda Livingston May 18, 2015 at 1:34 pm
Daniela, I just called an was told it was mepivacaine. Here is a study too suggesting both that and procaine are safer alternatives. Hope you can find a DDS to offer it and that it does not increase your side effects. (It did not for me, but my entire body was pretty damaged, so not sure I would have even noticed.)
weird, I don’t remember mepivacaine but that must have been the first holistic dds I went to. The one I currently see uses septocaine. If I were you I would find an holistic dds (the gold standard is Huggins-trained.) https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil#section6
There are three of us who write here who have been damaged by septocaine. I would avoid it.
Septocaine made my neuropathy 100% worse.
My life was destroyed by septocaine after being floxed by high doses of cipro. I reacted immediately with severe vertigo which I still have years later, every ache and pain I had from cipro increased exponentially over a few months as well as much heightened tinnitus, insomnia and racing heart rate. Even the cipro-caused c diff or whatever it was that was affecting my digestion got worse.
Dental work without anesthesia is far less painful.
As I stated, everyone has different reactions. And apparently you don’t have to be a floxie to have a bad reaction to it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417971/
I and another flxoie I know both did fine with Septocaine. And as I mentioned, it does not have the analine which is carcinogenic. I don’t think I can post two links so do a search of “wellness dental care” and “Past Dental Anesthetics Linked to Cancer.” Carbocaine apparently also has analine but at lower concentrations.
Daniela,
How did you find a dentist who does dental work without anesthesia. I am dealing with a dental implant, and I don’t think the dentist will work with it without anesthesia.
Thanks!
L, Daniela and Bob,
Did you have to take an antibiotic when you had your dental procedures? If so, what did you take?
Daniela and Bob,
I hope you all are feeling some better after the side effects from the dental anesthesia.
No I did not need an antibiotic for dental work. In fact I think the only time I did is when I had a tooth removed……
Deb, You just have to ask if they’ll work without anesthesia and move on. Non-US training helps.
But we are talking about local anesthesia. I don’t know about general.
Dental work is really a minefield because there is also a lot of hidden cipro in the materials (to ward off infection, lol)
Hey Daniela,
I’m so sorry that you had this terrible reaction to that anesthetic. I remember you’ve mentioned it before. If I recall correclty you were doing quite fine during that time…I’m so sorry.
Also, it scares me so much. It isn’t just the damage already done by the FQ. We have to be careful about everything for the rest of our lives. One day you might think “hey I feel good now, maybe I’m finally healed” and then everything changes so quickly. That’s maybe the scariest part. As one woman said at the EMA hearing, dealing with FQ toxicity “it’s a living hell”. There aren’t better words to describe it.
Don. Wow!! That is quite a story of your exposure to Cipro!!! That is a lot of pills and years of taking it!!! Since your discovery of Cipro doing damage to you in October how are you doing?? Did you start treating yourself? What were your main symptoms after all that exposure and have your symptoms improved or do you feel mostly recovered??? I’m in shock how many times you took Cipro!! Your body held up pretty well considering how much you took!! Hopefully you are bouncing back some!!!
How am I doing? Not good but not as bad as some. With the years of Fluoroquinolone saturation I have had I really don’t see “recovery” in my future. Being 84, I am hopeful that things stay static and don’t get any worse. For years I wondered why I felt so spacey ached so bad and peripheral neuropathy kept getting worse.
A lot of speculation and reasons but NO “real” answers from doctors. Is this why they call the doctor business “a practice”?
After my last go around with Leviquin I came to the Internet and began to find out what was really going on. Prior to that I must say I was ignorant about the real truth of Fluoroquinolones and never once did a doctor try to inform me. Am I being treated by a doctor? Why? Most are ignorant of any treatment that might work so it is just a waste of money.
I try to eat right and use the vitamins and minerals that others are using and getting help from.
Fortunately I am retired and don’t have the stresses of trying to get back to work. It sure has put a crimp on many things I liked to do.
Don, I agree with Dee. I really admire you. At 84, you still have the strenght to keep going and not let yourslef go. I’m almost 32 and sometimes I really feel to give up completely. Take care.
Hi Andrea, We are really susceptible to a lot of other problems once we have been damaged by fluoroquinolones. One important thing is to separate the artificial anxiety caused by cipro from the completely normal concerns we now need to have about every single thing in our environment. It is not paranoia, and more things to worry about is not something we should have to burden our overburdened bodies with, but that is our reality.
Don. I’m sorry to hear that you are suffering after so many years of FQs but admire your attitude for doing your best and trying to make the best of your situation. I send you good thoughts and wishes that as time goes on you will have more and more good days and more healing.
Thanks Daniela
I was in wheelchair for four months after taking Cipro repeatedly for over two months for a prostate infection…developed neuropathy and tendinitis so severe I could not unplug a toaster.
These are all magnesium deficiency symptoms. The best doctors all agree on this. Cipro leaches magnesium out of you at a mitochondrial level. 800 mg magnesium a day healed me. Take calcium at same time so dirrahea is not an issue. A team of doctors who recognized the symptoms treated me for six months. Thought I would die. I contacted assisted dying society.
I’m 71 and totally recovered except for the rare neurological twitch. Just walked 10 000 steps a day in China.
These conversations often go off the tracks when the word “ magnesium “ is left out of the conversation. It’s magnesium !!!
Ok Dave. Magnesium healed you, I belive you. But everyone’s different. Everyone of us was poisoned by the same class of drug, but the side effects hit us in so many different ways. Some of us develop GI problems some don’t. Some develop eyesight issues, some don’t. Some of us get crippled, some don’t and so on. I used magnesium for many months, with not much success. Actually sometimes I even felt worse. Since you’ve been so successfull with it do you mind tell us, what kind of magnesium you used? Was it just taken orally or topically too? Thanks,
Andrea.
Andrea………. Good questions. I would like to know the answers too. It is known and well documented that oral magnesium of all types are from 4% to 20 % used by the body. The rest is excreted. Was the 800 mg of magnesium in the pill form and what the bottle was advertising?
If it was pill form and 800 mg was being taken this meant that from 32 mg to 160 mg was the actual magnesium available to the body.
I just got a reply from Dr. Carolyn Dean about her ReMag liquid magnesium. I was told that every tea spoon contained 300 mg of magnesium and the liquid by passed the digestive system in a way that it went nearly 100% to the cells.
How magnesium is taken has a lot to do with how much the body is actually getting.
Topical magnesium oil needs to be applied to thoroughly cleaned skin or the skin contaminants are being absorbed with the magnesium. NOT GOOD.
Hey Don, thank for the info.” I was told that every tea spoon contained 300 mg of magnesium and the liquid by passed the digestive system in a way that it went nearly 100% to the cells.” I don’t know about that, but I’ve used, still using, ReMag from time to time, and I can say that’s probably the best magnesium supplement I’ve used. It gives me a nearly immediate relief when I feel weak. But, magnesium really started to help me only after many months of being floxed. At the beginning was doing nothing, actually there were times when I felt it was doing more harm than good. Maybe I was deficent in vitamin d, so only after I started to get good amounts of vitamin D in my system the magnesium started to help. Who knows…
Have you ever had the RBC magnesium test done? The blood serum test (cheap test) is nearly worthless when it comes to determining the “TRUE” magnesium level in the body. It’s kind of like taking blood pressure and blood sugar. At any given time they can be any number.
Dr. Dean recommends the RBC test because it samples the magnesium level in the red blood cells. This is a much more accurate and stable test.
She also says one should strive to get the RBC test number at 6 to 6.5.
Magnesium can be overdone so it is wise to know your level and what it takes to get it there and hold it there.
I think different labs use different parameters. I just looked back at my RBC test and it only goes to a high range of 5.1.
Your no doubt right but Dr. Carolyn Dean says the 6.0 to 6.5 is where she likes to see the top numbers. Dr. Dean has made magnesium her life’s work so I would trust her parameters more than a local lab. Your right that different labs use different parameters.
The one that aggravates me is the idea that the blood serum test for magnesium level is so widely used and accepted as accurate. That is far from true.
Don, I’ve never had the RBC magnesium test done. Actually I still don’t understand what it is. I had googled it in the past, but I don’t know if where I live they do this kind of test.
Google “online test request” and see if there are not web sites you can go to and order a test without a doctor’s order. Actually here in the US there is a doctor involved. He is on the staff of the test company. He signs for all the tests that people are requesting online.
Yes magnesium is important but just a part of the puzzle. I had tendon issues, torn meniscus, heart issues, vision issues, olfactory nerve damage, ravaged gut, weight loss, numb toes, spasming fingers, skin damage, hives, choking sensations, horrific breathing problems and dozens of other side effects. Magnesium was a very small part of my healing. (And I took 800-1000 mg for months.)
Magnesium in what form ? What is the protocol? I think I asked this before. Did I miss the reply?
I was loading up on magnesium from the start through tablets and epsom salt, but I can’t say it helped unless I would have been worse without it 😦
For anyone dealing with eye issues:
I jut went to a Neuro-Ophthalmologist at Bascom Palmer Eye Institute. I was given a very thorough eye examination to diagnose the tightness/ache behind the upper eye socket, and the extreme light sensitivity brought on suddenly by CIPRO.
Eye inflammation was ruled out, immune response was ruled out, retina issues ruled out, structural issues ruled out. The eye and overall vision were considered in great health.
This leaves only two possibilities.
A, it is either orbital tendonitis/trochleitis OR B, it is an irritated optical nerve.
Other than a thorough examination the doctor could only rule out everything aside from those 2 possibilities, he was useless for further explanation or treatment.
I wonder if anyone here would know the best treatment for eye tendinitis or irritation of eye nerve. I know steroids is not generally a good idea for floxies, yet that was the first recommendation for treatment. I already take magnesium Glycinate and D3 – so it must be more than a magnesium deficiency at this point.
Anyone know about risks or treatments for eye tendonitis or nerves irritated by Cipro?
An important reason why everyone should be tested for genetic mutations. (My doctor did them through True Health Diagnostics.) One such mutation is the MTHFR, which, among other things, is linked to methylation. (There are two and you can have one or both.) Methylation is responsible for:
the essential process for DNA repair and cleansing your body of toxins
Repairing and building DNA and RNA
Protecting your cells’ telomeres or genetic material that affect aging
Turning genes on and off
Regulating cellular energy
Repairing cell membranes and nerve sheaths
Supporting a healthy normal allergic response
Building immune cells
Producing glutathione to aid in cleansing of tissues
Regulating hormones
Supporting your body’s ability to clear itself of chemicals and heavy metals
Modulating your body’s stress response
Regulating your brain’s neurotransmitters for mood, brain function, and sleep
Supporting healthy weight management
If you have the 5-MTHFR mutation, you body cannot convert folic acid into the folate it needs to properly methylate. And it’s not just that the folic acid isn’t able to do its job…it actually accumulates in your body and cause negative effects, So always read labels….not just on food but supplements as well and avoid folic acid.
Here is the link to Mercola’s explanation. (and yes, he sells products, but the information is good. You can get a good 5 mthf folate from a number of reputable sources.)
https://products.mercola.com/folate-supplement/?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=yrp1&utm_campaign=20180901Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM231112&et_rid=408494017
I would like to see a study to see how many FLOXIES have the MTHFR mutation. I believe that would be many. I have the double mutation. I suspect people who can’t detox cipro fast get injured. No one should be taking folic acid anymore. Take folate. I believe Thorne is the best.
That’s what I suspected too Bob, but apparently these mutations are quite common. And yeah, no one should, but of course the government at some point mandated it be put in certain foods, primarily for pregnant women. Pretty bone-headed.
Yes the mutations are common but so are floroquinalone reactions. Maybe tbey are worse with the double mutation. My daughter has a single mutation and she had a much milder reaction to cipro than me.
I too have a single mutation and had about as hideous a reaction as I could imagine to cipro…just nightmarish mentally and physically, effecting vision, breathing, being completely asphyxiated by everything in the world, losing 1/4 my body weight (in 6 weeks!), paranoia, and on and on. Truly an experience so hellish there are no words to explain it. BUT I was also on prednisone at the same time which I am sure put it into hyper-drive.
Guys, I just want to tell you be carefull , with all these supplments. I’ve noticed that we floxies sometimes get a little too exicited when it comes to buy/consuming supplements. Of course I’m guilty too. But like I said, just be carefull. In this particular case, I’ve taken many b complex since I’ve been floxed. Some of them contained folate some don’t. Didn’t really noticed anyhting from them. But remember, some of these supplements contain sometimes huge amounts of vitmains and minerals. Sometimes even the 1000% or more. Too much of anything isn’t good anyway.
Of course you have to be careful, but the point of the post was that if you are ingesting folic acid in any form, supplements or foods (which have a lot) it not only does not benefit you, but builds up in your system and can wreak havoc, eg neurological problems, thyroid problems, etc. Now MOST people can get enough through diet with leafy green, sunflower seeds and so on. But if you have the mutation, your body cannot convert it, so you really need to be on a 5mth form of folate.
I am sorry there are so many people who are suffering as a result of this debilitating drug. I was given Levaquin intravenously in the hospital Jan of 2016 for sepsis. I understand that this strong of a drug was required for the very serious infection that I had but I was unaware of the long term side effects that goes along with it. I took it for a total of 30 days. For the following 9 months after I could hardly get out of bed, my blood pressure would sky rocket just getting up and walking across the room. I was on heart monitors for three months at this point because they could not control my heart rate. My bones hurt to the point I could hardly walk some days. I had numerous infections which lead to 6 more rounds of antibiotics in that nine month time frame. I had panic attacks and depression. I would get horrible migraines that lasted days and would come on 2-3 times a months. I had NO energy with three little kids to care for (one being a baby). My memory issues terrified me! I could hardly finish a sentence, I could not remember what I was talking about or could not come up with a word or a name that I knew before. I had moments where I could not remember how to do things that I have done thousands of times such as make a pot of coffee, find a channel on the TV, operate the microwave or certain tasks at work that I normally wouldn’t have to even think about. I felt like a shell of the person I once was. I had very little hope or faith that this could improve especially since numerous doctors and specialists could not give me any answers. My dear cousin suggested an all natural supplement that reduce oxidative stress by 40% in the first 30 days. It is a NRF2 activator. I also take NRF1 activator that repairs Mitochondria damage. I was skeptical but desperate so I gave it a try. Fast forward to now and I have to say I am and will be forever grateful for the information shared with me. It took a few months to really feel my energy shift but I did notice that my headaches went away right away and have never returned. My energy is better than before I was sick. My heart rate and blood pressure are on the low side of normal. My body no longer hurts from every joint, muscle and bone! My memory is much better as well as my concentration level. My anxiety and depression are gone. As of Sept 2016 I have not taken any antibiotics as I have not been sick once since I started taking this amazing little yellow pill! I finally can sleep 6-8 hours straight through!! My thyroid medication (unrelated to the Levaquin) has been reduced twice. Reversing the damage to the cells allows your body to heal itself. I am no longer a skeptic I am a believer and more importantly a HEALTHY believer! If you would like more information I would be happy to give the gift of information that was given to me. There is hope!!
I will post me email if anyone would like more information or have any questions.
livingmybestlife1108@gmail.com
Do you sell this Melissa ? If not where did you get yours ? It sounds to good to be true
What brand PLEASE.
I must say I am skeptical as this is MLM. How long did you have to take it to see results.
Sorry to sound stupid but what’s MLM?
Multi level marketing. Sell the product and recruit other sales people and get commissions on all levels.
Thanks
Hmmmm,pyramid system:stinky!!! MLM is a dirty marketing trick.
multi level marketing. basically the guy at the top makes money from people below him selling an item. it’s like a pyramid. the people below him then make money from their own sales and those below them.
This is a con. I’m sick of people like this. It’s the old saying, “if it sounds to good to be true, it’s to good to be true. “
I AM “NOT” DEFENDING THE PRODUCT, but (Henk, Barbara, Bob, L and others) where do you get the idea it is a MLM? It is called Protandim and is available in many places. Just Google for it and see where it can be bought.
What is Protandim? “Protandim Nrf2 Synergizer is the only supplement proven in a peer-reviewed, human clinical study to reduce cellular stress in humans by an average of 40 percent in 30 days. Protandim Nrf2 Synergizer is patent protected and is the subject of 20 peer-reviewed clinical studies”.
Ingredients … “Protandim consists mainly of a blend of 5 herbal ingredients (amounts per caplet listed in parentheses): Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) extract (225 mg) Bacopa (Bacopa monnieri) extract (150 mg) Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) root (150 mg) Green tea (Camellia sinensis) extract (75 mg) Turmeric extract (75 mg)” .
Just forwarding what I Googled about “Protandim Nrf2 Synergizer” in a couple of minutes. Does it work? One thing for sure is that like all the rest of the fancy combo things it is expensive.
Why some of us think,or,like me,are convinced this is a pyramid system?:
“I am a believer and more importantly a HEALTHY believer! If you would like more information I would be happy to give the gift of information that was given to me. There is hope!!
I will post me email if anyone would like more information or have any questions.”
And here’s the answer to your question:
https://www.lifevantage.com/opportunity/
Wouldn’t suprise me if Barbara Arnold (if that’s his/her real name) made up the whole suffering story with help of our own stories of being floxed,just to earn a good (and healthy,like he/she writes) living,promoting this very expensive product on the FloxieHope website.
On their Lifevantage website there’s NO working link to any scientific proof,whatsoever.Only a page where they write about the 3 patents on their products.Well,you can get a patent on EVERYTHING you want,as long as it isn’t conflicting other patents.
Their recipy is simple: mix some ingredients that are all over the web with excisting health claims,buy a patent,set up a pyramid system and one,or more websites to promote your product with exaggerated claims and lay back and wait untill the money is floating in.Job done!
Here’s some information on this corporation.In the first line there’s a link to info on patents,telling you that you don’t need proof of effectiveness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protandim
Henk, you put my name in your post by mistake. It’s Melissa Nash not me Barbara Arnold. Don’t worry it’s okay. As for the rest of your post I totally agree with you.
Sorry,Barbara;you’re totally right!
Well,actually it’s Melissa,herself,telling is she’s in a pyramid system,by NOT telling us the name of “her miracle product),and by giving us her email-adress in her post. She does this to avoid us from going to the website of the producer (lifevantage),buying the product directly from them instead of buying from/via Melissa,and maybe even becomming a competitor in the/her market by starting our own pyramide.
I caught that too. I’m sitting here at my computer saying “no, no, Barbara’s real!) 🙂
Mea Culpa ;-))
The only thing that wouldn’t steer me away is a warning from the FDA. They warn about anything that can’t profit big pharma. But all the rest, yeah—I’d stay away. That link even lists the ingredients, and I am pretty sure I have taken all but one—so, so much for a “cure.”
(Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) extract (225 mg)
Bacopa (Bacopa monnieri) extract (150 mg)
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) root (150 mg)
Green tea (Camellia sinensis) extract (75 mg)
Turmeric (Curcuma longa) extract (75 mg)
These are all good ingredients, but certainly not worthy of the hype
I just explained what MLM meant. I never said this product line was one.
http://www.lifevantage.com/biohackers/
Interesting reading. True, False or just advertising hype?
Amazon ….. Protandim https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_9?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=protandim+nrf2&sprefix=Protandim%2Caps%2C211&crid=V5RU7ZUO3SCV
Don, I know about the product as I googled it and a site came up asking if people would like to become sales people for the product. This person posted with ‘her story’. If you see the email she left its obvious shes selling the stuff. So why if her story was true didn’t she admit that and answer my question ? It’s not the product I have a problem with, it’s the dishonesty and the claims made about it. I have no idea if it’s any good, but I don’t believe for one minute the claims this person made. It’s the joys of the anonomous internet.
Hi everyone (Bob, Don M, Henk, L, Barbara) I just wanted to respond to a few of the comments in regards to the post I left the other day. I am sorry for the delayed response I have two sick kids that have keep me busy and they will always be my first priority. They are down for naps so I will take the time to address some of the comments/questions.
Let me start by saying that I am a 44 year old wife and mother of three young girls and absolutely everything I shared in my story is the truth. I wanted to share my story with a group of people who are going through similar and in many cases worse side effects from this group of antibiotics. I was in the same boat two years ago and this is simply what worked for me. In no way am I trying to scam anyone. I was just trying to offer another option. I understand you do not know me so you may be cautious and that is okay to feel that way but with that being said, because you do not know me it would be unfair to quickly assume that I made up my story or that I did not use my real name. I actually did not intend to use my last name but due to auto fill it listed it and I sent it before I realized it. I have since adjusted that.
I did not originally list the product name or any other specif information because I did not think it was appropriate to do so on a forum such as this without the consent of the author of this page. Now that the information has been put out there by others on the comments I will use the name of the product and company moving forward.
The company name is Life Vantage and yes it is a MLM. The product name is Protandiam. Yes I am a distributor. I recently decided to pursue this as a distributor because I was sharing this information with so many other people and I was referring them to the person that signed me up as a customer. I am not really doing this as an income I just felt that it made sense to not keep referring others to someone else. I do not think anyone would turn down any added income but as I said it is not my point of sharing. I have been sharing for a year and half with out ever getting anything from doing so. I simply believe in the product and I can stand behind my own personal results.
This is not a ponzi scheme or a pyramid company. I understand that most MLM companies are often viewed this way due to a few bad apples. No harm in looking into it and being cautious but please do just that before lumping all MLM companies into the same category. There are many reputable companies out there. This company has been around for 15 years and is a publicly traded company. http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/lfvn
There has been some talk about some links not working. I am not sure what sights you were looking at so I will put a link in here that gives the information that many of you were inquiring about. http://www.biohackingyourbody.com As you will see this had a report done by ABC Primetime investigating report. I am sure if this was a scam they would have uncovered it in their research. Under the “research” tab are some of the studies that have been done on this product. None of which were paid for by the company itself.
Here’s another study performed and paid for by Biogen (creator of the MS medication Tecfidera ). Showing that the Protandim Nrf2, beat out their $52,000 a year MS medication in a double blind study: https://1drv.ms/b/s!ApPM-lkiEMOrmRVKrdM8RSlzIXwa
This is a study funded by Washington State University stating “That we may be on the verge of a new literature on health effects of Nrf2 which may well become the most extraordinary therapeutic and most extraordinary preventive breakthrough in the history of medicine. It is our opinion that raising Nrf2 is likely to be the most important health promoting approach into the foreseeable future.”
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AJuLCvcsaqLQAbo&cid=ABC3102259FACC93&id=ABC3102259FACC93%213222&parId=ABC3102259FACC93%213220&o=OneUp
Here is the link for the 24 studies done on Protandim published on PubMed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/?term=protandim
As for the cost of the product it is $41 a month. I understand that may seem like a lot of money and it seemed that way for me at first glance too but after looking at the amount I spent on other supplements/vitamins, medications (that did not help me), doctors appointments (co-pays and out of pocket expenses) and alternative treatments as well as loss of work, the amount spent was a drop in the bucket. I was on six other drugs for my depression/anxiety, high heart rate, high blood pressure, migraines, insomnia and steroids for inflammation. I currently only take thyroid medication which I have had reduced twice since I started the Protandim. This is not a miracle pill and no one including the company is claiming to cure, treat or mitigate any illness or disease they are just stating that it has been clinically proven to reduce inflammation by 40% in the first 30 days. Inflammation is caused by oxidative stress which is the root of over 300 diseases and aliments. Reducing the oxidative stress allows the body to heal itself.
As far as purchasing it through Amazon it is never wise to purchase any supplements on line as there are many counterfeit products out there that look to be the “real deal” at a discounted price but in fact are produced out of the country where they do not have to follow the standards of the US. Life Vantage does not sell their product on line outside of their distributors so if you find it somewhere else it is not made by their company.
https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2018/02/17/fake-supplement-issue-no-one-talking-beware-amazon/
Hopefully this addresses any questions or concerns that have been brought up. Again my intentions were to simply share my story and what worked for me. I am not someone looking to debate or fire back at any/all negative comments I just felt now that the company name as well as mine was out there I should put facts out to properly represent the product. I am more than happy to answer questions you may have about my experience or the product itself and yes if you are interested in trying it you may contact me for the link to purchase it but if you are not interested that is completely fine no one will contact you or continue on with this thread.
Sincerely,
Melissa N
livingmybestlife1108@gmail.com
I am not crazy about MLM as it always drives up the cost but I am interested in the research I have done on this product. I have read about the research on mice and humans and many of the reviews. If I had taken a supplement that I thought was actually helping I too would tell others about it. I would like to know how long you took it before you noticed improvement.
Hi Bob, thank you for understanding. I can appreciate your opinion on MLM. As far as how long it took before I noticed the improvements is hard to pin point exactly as somethings improved sooner than others. My migraines went away right away and have never returned. My energy levels I could feel improving withing maybe 2-3 weeks and continued to increase over time but I would say by four months they were back to where they were before I was sick and maybe better. My thyroid was first reduced within four months of being on it. I have labs run on my thyroid every six months. My labs were run about 6 weeks before I started it and at my next lab draw it was reduced. It maintained at that dose for about a year and then went down one more time. My immune system hard to say because I just didn’t get sick again so not sure how to give a time line on that. However before taking it I was on antibiotics almost every month since I got Sepsis up until I started the Protandiam. My depression and anxiety improved over time but I would say I really took notice of my anxiety at around 6 months but it could have been sooner. I just noticed it when I realized that things that would normally set off my anxiety such at flying or leaving my kids with someone other than me or my husband did not set it off. My heart rate and blood pressure improved rather quickly I was off the medication for those in about three months. I was being monitored with a heart monitor and working with a cardiologist and he said I now have no use for him. I am happy about that. I now take a NRF1 activator that I added later (about 8 months ago a little over a year and a half from taking just the NRF2) after doing research on the damage to the mitochondria (DNA) of the cell from the antibiotics. Since Alzheimer’s runs in my family on my father’s side this was very important to me to add to my regime because I want to do everything I can to keep from going down that path. Since the Levaquin had such an effect on my memory I wanted to do what I could for added insurance to not end up like every member on my dad’s side including my father. I would say as far as my memory issues they improved slower than the other symptoms. I can say I noticed improvements a couple of months in but again the progress on that was slower than the other issues. I still to this day have times where I feel like my mind sticks. If I am really tired or overwhelmed I will struggle to come up with words, names, and how to spell some words that normally I would not have an issue with. I will loose my train of thought mid sentence but overall it is much better than it was. My aches and pains that I took steroids for I think I can say they went away not long after taking it. I used to take oral steroids for my lungs from time to time, shots in my lower back and lidocaine patches where and when needed. I have not used any since. On a side note (not related to the Levaquin) I have also noticed my allergies have be non symptomatic since I started taking it. I normally had bad seasonal allergies and allergic to ant bites. Nothing this last two years not a sneeze or sniffle and I got bit by a couple of ants when I stepped on the ant hill and no reaction! Weird I know but little things I notice here and there. I also take a probiotic. This is very important as the antibiotics are very hard on your gut! Gut health is vital to all parts of your body including your immune system and brain. This is by my choice I am not suggesting that you or anyone else has to do so. Just being open and honest about what I use.
thanks for the explanation. actually, I didn’t comment on your post or the company. I only described what MLM meant. And yes, we are all very leery of things being sold to us. I am glad it helped you, but unless there is some verifiable information about it pertaining directly to fluoroquinolone toxicity, I personally would not try it.
Hi L sorry if I included you in something you should not have been. There is actually quit a bit of information regarding oxidative stress and fluoroquinolone toxicity which is actually why I mentioned this on this thread. This is what finally helped me. There are a few articles on this sight alone. The antibiotics cause more of the oxidative stress which in turn causes the aliments. Reduce the oxidative stress (inflammation) and the body heals itself which in turn reduces/eliminates the symptoms. This is not new information and certainly not information regarding only Protandim. Oxidative Stress and mitochondria (DNA) damage are being studied by almost every medical university out there. They are seeing the link to all diseases/illnesses.
https://floxiehope.com/2014/02/10/fluoroquinolone-caused-mitochondrial-damage-and-oxidative-stress-what-are-the-consequences-to-floxies/
https://fqresearch.org/heavy-metals-fluoroquinolones/guanine_specific_dna_damage_by_oxidative_stress/
Again if you are not interested in Protandim that is perfectly fine, I am not trying to shove a pill down anyone’s throat (no pun intended) just sharing information I have found in my own journey. Researching information regarding the underling cause helps you to find the solution for yourself to the problem. I personally was never aware before my primary doctor explained this to me and I followed up with researching this on my own. Also I have found probiotics and gut health is critical to repair the damage to not only your immune system but your brain.
Melissa, Thankyou for your comprehensive reply. I think if you had put the links in your original post we would have been more receptive. However you explained why you didn’t and that’s fair enough.
We have had a few scammers on here and other sites so I think you can understand why we are a bit skeptical if we do not recieve full information that we can follow up ourselves.
I found it interesting reading as I’ve always thought that we need more research on our damaged mitochondria.
So thanks for your explanation and I’m glad it really helped you.
Melissa, if I may ask did you find a Probiotic that really helped you and made a difference?? I am having a horrible time with my stomach and am lost in a sea of different probiotics to try????
Have you tried making and using your own fermented foods? I heard a comment (true or false?) that one serving of home fermented foods is equal to a whole bottle of store bought Probiotics.
I also want to add my thanks to Melissa N.
Hi Don,and others,interested in Protadin:here’s what I found after doing some background research:
Let’s do a bit of research on this product,and the company behind it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protandim
The product invention took about five minutes (after employees Paul Myhill and William Driscoll (a former oil company executive) created a list of 41 “potential usefull ingredients” :
Product invention
As recently as July 21, 2011, LifeVantage credited McCord as the creator of Protandim on its website.[32] At a 2011 conference for LifeVantage distributors, McCord stated, “I was presented with a list of 41 potential ingredients for a product they wanted to call Protandim, and I went through the list and penciled out, rapidly, about 36 of those ingredients,” leaving the 5 ingredients in the current formulation of Protandim.
According to LifeVantage, the move from retail to multi-level marketing was prompted by the January 2008 hiring of David W. Brown, (formerly CEO and president of Metabolife) as the company’s CEO and president.
So;let’s do some research on Metabolife:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolife
Don’t forget to read about the Legal and regulatory issues,LifeVantagey had,and still has (it’s on the Wiki page).
If this isn’t enough to keep floxies away from this product,then the fact that every tablet contains 75 mg of green tea extract should(rich in fluoride!).This makes Protandim a big NO-NO for Floxies.Even without knowledge about the history of LifeVantage and related companies like Metabolife.I really dont like relapses,caused by fluoride,in tea or in pills!
My suggestion?
Here’s the ingrediënt list of Protadim:
Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) extract (225 mg)
Bacopa (Bacopa monnieri) extract (150 mg)
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) root (150 mg)
Green tea (Camellia sinensis) extract (75 mg)
Turmeric (Curcuma longa) extract (75 mg)
Just search the web for a good source to buy the four ingredients (DON’T add the tea (extract).!) The Bacopa and the milk thistle can even been grown in your own garden,if you’d like (BIO,of course!).Then mix your own health recipy;this will be waaaay cheaper than buying into “the pyramid” (YES! it IS a pyramid system):
In January 2018, a class action lawsuit was filed against LifeVantage in Connecticut alleging that the company and its Chief Executive Officer Darren Jensen, Chief Sales Officer Justin Rose, and Chief Marketing Officer Ryan Goodwin were operating an illegal pyramid scheme in violation of the RICO Act, federal securities laws, and the Connecticut Unfair Trade Practices Act.
Hello Henk. A very interesting piece of information about Protendim. The history of the company and it’s executives shows a lot to be skeptical about it all.
I looked at the list of ingredients as it is and scoped out the cost of individual ingredients from my regular supplement supplier and came up with about $48 for the list. Big difference was that with my list there was enough supplements to last about 3 months.
Now to the individual ingredients. A couple are so common that (as you say) they could be home grown. Yes the green teas do normally have fluoride in them because the leaves have an affinity for storing the fluoride found in the soils where the are grown. (Much comes from China) The other item that I have serious questions about is the Turmeric. Is it just (the hard to assimilate) Turmeric or the concentrated version of Curcumin 95% containing Bioperine? I don’t see Bioperine listed. The normal daily dose of Curcumin is considered to be about 2,100 mg. (I take 1,400 mg in the morning and another 1,400 mg in the evening supposedly to fight inflammation) To me it appears that the Turmeric at 75 mg is hardly any benefit.
The claim by the company that the “proprietary blend” of ingredients must be correct for the product to work is a bit suspect but it is what is claimed by most of the manufactures that put together a “soup” of ingredients to sell for an inflated price.
The object is to either convince you that you can’t do it and get it right or it is too expensive to buy the ingredients separately.
I have a lot of bottles on the counter but I like to go “a la carte” and put together the amounts of each that I figure should be right. And leave out the useless stuff.
Good research Henk. Thanks
Melissa, your being a distributor of the product should have been disclosed right away, with your first posting. I too reacted to the initial posting skeptically, since it did not reveal the product name, and was attempting to pull viewers into a private conversation. But I believe even full disclosure would not be acceptable on a site such as this, since your post in the end includes an advertisement. This site relies on fully objective information, without any profit motive. I don’t think any form of advertising should be permitted on this site by those who could profit by it. Those who stand to gain by selling a product simply can’t be fully credible: there are conflicts of interest. Thank you, Henk, for doing background research on the company and product and giving us warnings. I too am very leery of MLM companies, having had bad experience with their distributors in the past who have often tried to hide their profit motive on other health websites run by victims. Even fellow victims of a condition must refrain from advertising, in my opinion.
If you took a product that actually helped you and you became a distributor to get it at the cheapest price why wouldn’t you tell others about it? It would have been better to disclose that up front but I still want to know about it. Everyone is free to do their own research and make up their own minds. Everything is not a “scam” just because someone is making money off it and I’m not just talking about this product.
well said Bob
This Mercola article may be of interest to you all:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/09/02/near-infrared-light-benefits.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180902Z2&et_cid=DM231766&et_rid=408586410
It’s about the healing effects of NEAR infrared light (about 40% of the sunlight). Not the Far infrared light,used in sauna’s.
Hi henk. I have a near infrared light at home. I’m using it on a scar I have on my chest. Not seeing any result for now. I’ll let you know if it’ll give me some benefits
Oh and another thing. I still have to buy that sota pulser you’ve mentioned a couple of times here…if I remember corectly you told us it helped healing your gut problems or soemthing like that. It’d be nice to see if could help me for my bladder/prostate issues. I’m very skeptical anyway
Near infrared is of help when ” bathing” in that light. Cheapest way is,of course,sunlight.It reaches cells,deep in your tissue (6-8 inches) and helps restore mitochondrial and DNA damage.Don’t know what you use it for but if it’s to make the scar vanish,I don’t think it will do any good. For the “bathing” you’ll need 3-4 lamps of 250 Watt.
About the Sota Magnetic Pulser: I started with building one myself;you only need an old photoflash, a copper spool and a peace of wire (2,5 mm2;otherwise you’ll loose a lot of power in mthe wire).It costed me around €30 and that’s a nice price to experiment with this technique and to see if it works for you and if you want to spent a lot more for the Sota Magnetic Pulser,and,later on,maybe the other Sota devices as well (I got that Pulser,The Silver Pulser( formerly called the “Blood Purifier),and the Bio Tuner (was: The Brain Tuner).Mediverse didn’t sell the Sota Ozone Generator but had their own Ozone Gen,which turned out to be a piece of junk,so,The Sota Ozone Generator is next on my shopping list.
On the bobbeck.com website you’ll find all the information you’ll need to build the Magnetic Pulser and the Silver Pulser yourself;each will,if built yourself,€ 30-40,so;take no risk and start with homebuilt,like I did.This will set you back way less money than what those Sota devices cost.
Thanks Henk. But what issue did cured with the sota pulser? If you don’t mind sharing of course. I want to try it for my bladder prostate issues and I’ve read there’re a couple of studies on rats and dogs, that seem promising…
Hi Andrea, I don’t mind sharing my experience;it might help you. I’ve told about the problems I had after my first AB course in 2004,so,I won’t repeat that.Told you about my bladder infection in 2010 as well;by shear luck I noticed,coming back from the pharmacy with the Cipro my doctor subscribed me,that my fever was going down and decided to NOT use the Cipro but to go on using my Magnetic Pulser (not my homebuild but my recently bought Sota MP).A few days later the bladder infection had gone.
Well,a little while later I noticed that I felt a little bit of pain and discomfort again,and peeing was taking longer,the urine flowing less powerfull.Started to use the MP,and got some improvement,but initially the discomfort seemed to get a little worse.After 2 weeks I descided to take a break from the MP,and while the peeing improved further the discomfort disappeared.Not totally satisfied I descided,based on my web research,to use a zinc supplement ( Zinc is highly concentrated in the prostate);I knew that the Losec I used didn’t only deprive from magnesium,but from zinc,vit. B12,and probably other vitamines and minerals as well.
I started with 100 mg of zinc citrate per day, and soon after started “missing the pot”,not on the side where I was standing,but the other side; I had to get used to pissing like an 18 year old boy again :-)) Cut the zinc dose back to 50 mg’s from there on.
I don’t use this supp. all the time;sometimes I don’t use it for months.But when I notice the flow is getting less strong,or the feeling of discomfort returning,I start the supp,and,when I think it might be neccesary,using the MP,again untill things are alright.
This is my own story;cann’t give any garantuee things will work out as good for other people. That’s why I urge you,and others to first build one yourself;it’s quite easy and very cheap.
Uhm..that’s quite interesting Henk. Also funny too 🙂
But, you’ve mentioned zinc. I know about zinc. Many studies have been done on it and on his effects on the prostate. But, when I wanted to try it, I wasn’t completely sure. There’re conflicting opinions about his effects on the prostate. A lack of it it’s defenetly bad for it, but taking supplement in that amount, 100 mg is really high, could be very dangerous. Some docotrs think that high amounts of zinc could be dangerous for the prostate and your helth as well. When it comes to metals, be careful.
https://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/blog/zinc-prostate-cancer-may-not-be-good-idea
You’re right about the 100mg,but after 15 years of using Losec (a PPI) I had a severe defficiency of magnesium,zinc,B12,and probably quite a few other vitamines and minerals.I used that high dose untill things got better,since then I use 50mg.While using the 100mg I also used a multi from Solgar,so my actual intake was even more.Never had any problems of that high intake.I had to add the multi because of the copper in it:high doses of Zinc can cause a copper defficiency,and possibly a defficiency of other metalic minerals as well.
A daily dose of 50 mg is a safe dose.I only mentioned the 100mg because that’s my story,and my situation,after 15 years of using Losec/Omeprazole.I don’t even use that 50 mg constantly because sometimes I simply forget to buy a new supply,or need the money for other things.But when I think the problems might be comming back,I put it on my shopping list.
And this docu might be as well:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/09/01/what-is-fascia.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180901Z2&et_cid=DM230999&et_rid=408067329
Bob and Daniela, I may have to get dental work done. I wanted to know how long had you been floxed when you had the reaction to septocaine? Also had you had septocaine previous to floxing and did ok with it?? Do you know a safer numbing method other then septocaine? I didn’t react to it a long time ago when I had it but know things can change after being floxed. Just wondering how long you were floxed before shot and if you had it before floxing??
I had been floxed for 3 years when I had septocaine and went downhill fast. I don’t know if I ever had it before that. I had dental work before after cipro with no adverse effects. I think you need a holistic dentist to advise you on the safest way to go.
Losec is bad news. Have you tried Gaviscon or bicarb of soda for gastric issuea ?/
I stopped taking Losec/Omeprazole,directly after the second time I had a cardiac arrythmia and wass hurried to hospital by ambulance.Had a conflict about Losec causing magnesium defficiency,and cardiac arrythmia as one of the symptoms,and his scientific argument for this to be totally wrong was: “Do you know how many people use Losec?”. Well;wasn’t this enough proof for Losec to be safe? Two month later there was an article in all main newspapers about Losec and other PPI’s to cause magn.defficiency and cardiac arrythmia’s as being one of the symptoms.
Main cause of heartburn is not to much but to little stomach acid.When,after eating,I get heartburn,I eat a citrus fruit,or drink some citrus juice.Sometimes the heartburn at first gets worse,but after 10-15 minutes it disappears. Only during the night I use little sipps of milk to solve the problem (for a while;it only helps a few hours). I used pills instead of milk (calcium and magnesium;those neutralize the acid),but those gave me kidney stones;not pleasant at all! I consider milk to be the safest solution for my heartburn problems during the night.
Since I stopped I had no heart problems untill directly after Cipro; I took more than a year untill those disappeared (only,seldom,a little “noise”;nothing really serious,I guess). The problems after Cipro fellt different. I still use Flecaïnide Acetate but doubt about the necessity but there’s still this fear. Undoubtedly the Flecaïnide was part of the problems when I took the Cipro;the doctor phoned around with colleages for more than 1/2 hour because she just received a messages that those two medications interacted i a bad way and were adviced NOT to be subscribed together.I’ve recently found out why: there’s a short list of medicines which contain fluoride,and of which is known that the fluoride/carbon bond is sometimes broken,causing a fluoride poisoning.
Thanks for the advice but after all the problems I had during the last 20 years,All caused by medicines and their adverse reactions,I prefer natural solutions.Actually: I develloped a serious fear for all synthetic/chemical medicines.Want to stop using flecaïnide Acetate as soon as possible; have to let my magnesium tested (intercellulair).
Today,a very interesting article about antbiotics and the damage they cause on the Mercola website:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2018/09/05/adverse-side-effects-of-antibiotics.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art3&utm_campaign=20180905Z2_NB&et_cid=DM231694&et_rid=411215244
Protandim Review: Everything You Need To Know About Research And Side Effects
https://supplementclarity.com/protandim-research-review-lifevantage/
Interestingly I have taken all those supplements I believe, over the course of my cipro journey. I also recall warnings against green tea for floxies, but can’t recall why. (I am thinking the fluoride in the leaves?)
Word is that most of the green teas are coming from China where the soil is rich in fluoride. Supposedly the tea leaves absorb a lot of the fluoride. So you are right in your thinking.
As for the Protandim ingredients. They are all rather common supplements and I have all of them here now. The big selling point that the company claims is the the ingredients must be combined in the right proportions (the “proprietary blend”) to be effective. Right, wrong or just selling point?
Don, does that mean even organic green teas are suspect?
I don’t have an answer to your question because it all depends on where the organic green tea came from. I am no authority but I read that there are some places (I don’t know where) that do have green tea (organic) that is low in fluoride. It just seems that tea leaves have an affinity for absorbing fluoride.
It appears that one must know exactly the history of where green tea is grown. And for that fact all teas.
Thank you! It’s hard to avoid teas, since I only drink tea and water. I try to stay with organic herbal teas; hope those are safer, but it seems to depend on the soil also.
Tea and water are also my only drinks. When I learned more about Fluoride and the fact that I was floxed I added another filter in the line of my water. It contains an activated Alumina. Alumina is not related to Aluminum which we all know is a toxic substance to us.
The really disgusting thing is that in reality nearly every drink we buy still has Fluoride in it.
Most of the water that is used to make the drinks comes from the city water systems and Fluoride is not filtered out. In fact many cities are adding Fluoride to their water.
Don, what kind of filter do you use and does it filter out fluoride? Our water company luckily doesn’t add it, but it sounds like some fluoride might naturally occur in water?
I use a standard 10 inch filter housing that can be bought at hardware stores or online.
There are also counter top filters that the Alumina filter can be used in. They will connect to your kitchen faucet.
The filter that will drop into this housing is:
Amazon example……. https://www.amazon.com/Home-Master-CFF25-10-Replacement-Activated/dp/B005A3WS0W/ref=sr_1_5?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1536200994&sr=1-5&keywords=alumina+water+filter
The Alumina cartridge does not filter many gallons before replacement is needed.
It is recommended that a carbon block filter be used after the Alumina to improve the taste of the water because the Alumina tends to make the water taste bitter.
A good quality carbon block filter will also remove many other impurities including chlorine and pesticides.
There are dual filter setups that are counter top units.
A reverse osmosis filter system is also supposed to remove fluoride, but they are rather expensive.
Google for Youtube instructions on how to set up a counter top unit.
Thank you!
Virginia………. Your welcome. From my soap box. This site is here (at least it should be) to help educate floxies on how to deal with their problems. In my opinion………. It is “NOT” here to ridicule people who submit ideas. Every idea may or may not have merit. But…….. You have a computer and you can research for yourself. Do your own research, make up your own mind, but don’t ridicule other people’s ideas just to be making a post!
Oops! Because of my (floxie related) dizziness and unsteadiness I just fell off my soap box.
I got a relaps after just one cup of Pu Erh tea.Was a big cup,and reasonably strong tea,but P Erh tea is known to be low in fluoride. Shortly after I had another relapse from a little,not so stron cup of black tea.
Henk, I’m answering you here.
I don’t know, I think 50 mg is still a high dose. Anyway soon will be my birthday, I’m thinking to get a sota pulser :-). Even if I’m very skeptical about it, I want to try it. Your experience and some studies I’ve read got me convinced to buy it, even if it’s very expensive. For the zinc, I don’t know. I don’t think I’m deficent, like you were, plus I sometimes take the ReMag solution multimineral, that has 3 mg of zinc in it, so even if in really small amounts, I’m already taking some zinc. It’s quite interesting to read that, only adding some zinc to your regimen, almost healed your urological problem…I don’t think I’ll get the same results…
Andrea,40-50 mg a day is safe,according to what I can find on the subject. And about the Magnetic Pulser: I still urge you to,first make one yourself,or find someone to help you building one (it’s realy quite simple) before spending that much money on the Sota Pulser. That’s how I did it but don’t relay on my experience.This is my opinion,although I,for myself,am convinced that the money for the Sota Pulser is money,well spent.
Hi folks,
My kind sister-in-law has setup a Go Fund Me page to help raise money for Major Autohemotherapy treatment. I’ve been wanting to go ahead with Major Autohemotherapy but have been unable to do so because of the lack of funds. Unfortunately, I’m broke, unemployed and too sick to be employed at the moment. As many of you know, I tried to stay employed for as long as possible through this soon-to-be 4 year ordeal. This is no longer possible. I’m officially in the pits. I know many of you are as well, so forgive me if this request offends anyone.
I’ve never been one to ask for money. I’ve worked my entire adult life but now I find myself in uncharted territory. I don’t want life to pass me by. I’ve lost plenty of it already.
Major Autohemotherapy has helped a lot of people get their life back. It may or may not be the answer for me, but having tried nearly everything, it’s a risk I’m willing to take.
If you would like to help me obtain the funds for this treatment (10 sessions), please visit the link below.
gofundme.com/Lukaszs-Road-To-Recovery
As always, thank you Lisa and Floxie Community for your continued support. We’re all in this together.
-Lukasz
For context, and those of you who don’t recognize Lukasz from his thumbnail pic, his story is on this site – https://floxiehope.com/lukaszs-story-clarithromycin-and-ciprofloxacin-poisoning-and-healing/. Many of his ups and downs are noted in the comments on his story.
Thank you to all who are able to help him!
Hi Lukazs, I hope this helps you. Just want to let you know it’s 60 euros a session in Spain. Did you look into Poland (just guessing from your name), Mexico?
Sorry, Lukasz. Good luck whatever you end up doing!
Hi Daniela,
Do you know the name of the clinic that charges €60?
I don’t want to recommend any place, and Western Europe is probably more expensive than other places. It just seems that you, from your picture, are an experienced traveller. Why pay such a premium for Canada when you could go to where they have more experience and charge less?
You’re right. $600 per session is a ridiculous amount for having your blood drawn and cleaned out with oxygen, especially when it can be done at a fraction of the price elsewhere. I’m going to re-examine my options. Thanks for the suggestion.
Have you you thought about rectal ozone insuflation? They say it is almost as good as treating the blood. You can get home use equipment for less than $1000.00. Check out the kit for Simply 03.
Try autohemoterapia, autohemoterapija. I hope you have an adventure as well as getting better!!!
Great! I’ll type that in and see what comes up.
Lukasz,
They don’t do 10 pass ozone in Spain only 1 pass. My ozone Doc has been doing it for 20 years and doesn’t recommend 10 pass. He told me he had gone to a congress of ozone Docs and they discussed it and felt it wasn’t safe enough. But it’s also not allowed here at the moment. He is in a private hospital in Alicante and charges 100 euros for a one pass session.
However if you look into 10 pass in Greece, there is a clinic there that does a complete package ie multivits, diet etc and uses 10 pass . It takes about a week’s stay and the package costs around 3000 euros all in. She has treated floxies with success but also without success to a floxie friend of mine.
So hope this clarifies for you in your decision. Good luck.
To complement Barbara’s info in terms of economising, get local, walk-in rates, without add-ons like lodging, airport transfer, etc. You can make those arrangements better yourself. Wheelchair assistance is free at the airports, for example.
To give you an idea of some prices for a different treatment: $350 for a consultation in the U.S., 40 euros in France, 50 pesos in Mexico (that’s about $3 CAD). I bet the amount of time the doctors spend with patients would be inversely proportional.
I think Mexico is the closest for you but maybe you are more familiar with other countries. Mexico is really inexpensive IF you avoid the all-inclusives aimed at USD and CAD customers.
I don’t know anything about this treatment but I want to go, too!!!!
Sorry, flox brain again. I meant Cyprus not Greece. There are quite a few to google. Some do everything even hyperbaric as well.
medinstitute.net cyprus
Barbara,
Thanks for the info re: the clinic in Cyprus. I’ve sent them an e-mail to clarify the costs.
I haven’t heard anything about 10 pass ozone being unsafe. In fact, I’ve heard it’s more effective compared to 1 pass. Clinical results seem to be significantly better.
Autohemotherapy Clinic, Ganjavian Hospital, Iran
Clinica de investigaciones del ozono, Cuba
Two medical facilities where they use major autohemotherapy for autoimmune disease. There are many others that do it for anti-aging. I don’t know if it’s the same process but if so, you can also look into those.
Those two places were mentioned in published studies so they are probably serious. I have no contact info, however.
Bob’s suggestion is really good. You could probably resell the machine when you’re done.
Lukasz,
If you google 10 pass ozone Cyprus there are a few more Clinics there that do it, so you could compare prices. There is one there that has treated floxies with success but not a floxie friend of mine, but he was badly hit, he has been having stem cell treatment in Russia since, with some improvement. He is also going to Mexico for more stem cell treatment at Christmas. The Clinic in Cyprus that treated him with 10 pass ozone is run by a woman, sorry can’t remember her name, but you will find her if you google.
I’m going for an ozone treatment today so will ask again about 10 pass, personally I think it’s more a case of Spain’s health body not allowing it at the moment, rather than it not being safe, because they don’t know enough about it and Spain is slow in some respects with catching up on certain things. Like the Rhematologist who, when I told her that the US had two black box warnings on fluroquinolones said to me “This is Spain, not America ” Seems she didn’t mind poisoning her own people.
So the above is just my opinion on 10 pass, because I don’t know enough about it, but you seem to have done your homework, so I really hope it helps if you decide to go for it. Hope this helps, if I get any more info today I will let you know. Good Luck
Lukasz,
I have spoken to my ozone Doctor today about 10 pass ozone. He said it can damage the red blood cells and is not recommended. He said the congress he went to was attended by ozone Docs from around the world and they did not sanction it. Also from what I’ve read you have to take an anticoagalent when your having a 10 pass and there are possible problems there. He did not know of anyone doing it apart from Cyprus. He has been an ozone Doc for 20 years and he also does operations on backs using ozone, so he should know what he’s talking about. However he is the only person I’ve asked and I googled side effects of 10 pass ozone, so that’s the extent of my knowledge apart from a floxie friend who went to Cyprus to have it but it did not help him. He did tell me that the clinic said they had ‘cured’ two floxie women.
I guess the only thing to do is research further at least then you can make an informed choice. I think we floxies are so desperate at times we will try anything to help ourselves, but after 4 years I now make sure I really research everything thoroughly before I try it. I spent a fortune in the early years without actually feeling any better. What worked ‘for me’ was ozone autohemotherapy, hyperbaric oxygen therapy. CBD oil for insomnia and kratom for pain. And of course the staple magnesium.and “Time”
So I hope this info will help you decide where you go from here. Let us know if you find anything else out about the 10 pass.
Thanks Daniela and Barbara for your research and advice re: this matter.
Barbara, this doctor’s assessment of 10 pass has me concerned, especially since he’s been in the field for 20 years. Unless, there is something he’s not telling us. Maybe he stands to gain something from being anti-10 pass. I don’t know. So far, everything that I’ve heard has been mostly positive.
What concerns me most is the use of anticoagulants or blood thinners. I don’t want to have any more chemicals placed into my body and that includes blood thinners. I will do some more research to see if this can be avoided.
That’s too bad about your friend. It would have been great if the clinic had been able to help him considering his state. Hopefully stem cell treatment will help him get back on his feet. The fact that the other two women were cured from FQT, is certainly a positive piece of news that gives me hope.
When you say ozone autohemotherapy worked for you, do you mean 1 pass ozone therapy or the chambers that contain ozone? How many sessions did you have? Also, which form and/or brand of magnesium did you or do you take if you don’t mind me asking?
Lukasz,
The ozone I have is one pass. He takes the blood out into a bag, injects it with ozone and vitc, then again through IV Drips it back in me.
I also had an injection of ozone today in my coccyx as it gets sore at times from a fall I had last November. Really helps.
In the beginging, about 2 years ago I had 10 sessions of ozone autohemotherapy one pass, once a week. I did really well for months until I had a nerve conduction test which caused a flare of peripheral neuropathy. I then had some 20 sessions of hyperbaric oxygen therapy, that also really helped, but then last November I had a fall so after being in bed for two months, I had 10 more sessions of one pass ozone and a couple of ozone injections in my coccyx. I am much much better now.
In the begining, I took lots of different types of magnesium up to 1000mg or to the point of loose stools. Since then I have tried Dr. Carolyn Deans mag but I wasn’t sure if it helped and it was very expensive, so since then I have taken magnesium malate which works for me. Sometimes I take 800mg but mostly I take 400mg a day now.
I know we are all different and there are many variables but your age is in your favour. I think the time it takes is the most frustrating, but hopefully you will get there. Just really research everything.
I forgot to mention I also take NT factor but it again is expensive, the reason I take it is because it’s supposed to really help the mitochondria.
Good luck and if I can help with anything else just let me know.
Thanks, I really appreciate all the info. Couple more questions if you don’t mind.
Did you have any side effects from the 1 pass ozone or did you tolerate it well? And, do you think the magnesium helps or the previous treatments you had did the trick?
Lukasz,
I did experience a herx reaction initially, but that soon stopped. After about the 6th session I started to feel really well compared to how I felt before.
The magnesium is important because as you probably know fluro’s leach it from the cells, but it’s very important to everyone anyway. You can find out everything you want to know about magnesium on Dr. Carolyn Deans website. You don’t have to purchase her stuff, but she is extremely knowledable about mag and minerals. She also has heard about fluroquine toxicity. I never ‘felt’ any benefit from mag, but I know for sure I needed it. I occasionally use topical mag for any painful situations and that does help me a bit. I would love to have the epsome baths but I can’t get the salts here in Spain and because of the weight it’s to expensive to have it shipped.
For ‘me’ the things I ‘felt’ better with were the ozone, the hyperbaric, the CBD oil and Kratom for pain, which I only use if I really need it.
Remember Lukasz, we are all different, so again research for you, with your symptoms. I do know what’s helped me has helped others. I would say after 4 years I vary ftom 85 to 95% better. What puts me back sometimes is stress of any kind. When I’m not good I push through and tell myself I will feel better again soon.
Hope this helps. Just keep going until you get there, you will.
Hi Barbara- I get my Epsom salts on ebay.fr and the company does free postage within France provided you pick it up at your local relay shop. Have you tried Spanish ebay?
Hi Madge,
Thanks, I’ll have a look to see if they do the same.
How are you doing ?
Ronna, I don’t know if you are still reading floxie home but wanted to check how you are doing and if your early morning wakeup and bathroom visit is still getting better for you???? I hope it is!!!! Hope you continue to improve!!!
I’ve heard the same about the initial Herx and people feeling better than in a long time after about the 6th session. This seems to be a common denominator for those that get ozone done. Anyway, it’s great to hear that there exists a treatment that can assist us with these symptoms.
I’m on a similar timeline as you, approaching 4 years, so it’s good to compare progress and what works. I would say that I’m 70-75% better and I’m hopeful that the ozone treatment can bring me closer towards 90-95%. You’re right though, stress does seem to bring on setbacks. We have to do our best to avoid it. Also, I find lack of sleep from the night before can have setback like qualities.
Thanks again for your advice.
Yep Lukasz
Lack of sleep will do that. I found CBDa oil reset my body clock. From a couple of hours sleep to 6 or 7 now. Makes so much difference to how you feel emotionally. Just to let you know I focused all my healing on the mitochondria later on. That’s what helped me the most. Stay as positive as you can Lukasz, the mind plays a huge part to, as hard as it is. Mix with people that give you a lift and stay away from the negative ones. That at least helps with stress levels.
All good points. What did you use to heal the mitochondria?
All the things I’ve mentioned plus NT factor.
I see. And the CBD Oil you apply nightly?
I take 2 or 3 drops about an hour before sleep. Just make sure you get a good source, I take CBD Brothers purple edition. You can get a lot of info on Facebook CBD. Good info there from users.
Barbara. What brand of NT factor do you use and what dose do you take?
Propax NT factor lipids. Very expensive but the real thing. The box contains little packets with 4 tablets and omega 3. I take 2 packs a day. Google it, plenty of info.
Is there any other way to reset the body clock for proper sleep other than CBD? I have a hard time falling asleep and tend to wake up too early. After that, I can’t fall asleep again. Any solutions to this?
A strong cup of Camomile tea and some Melatonine (currently 0.7 mg) work for me. Sometimes I have to take an extra 0,3 mg when waking up after 4-5 hours,to sleep around 8 hours total.You have to experiment with the quantity of Melatonine;some people use 0,5 mg,others use up to 3,or even 4-5 mg.Try to find a balance between falling asleep well,and not being too drowsy next morning.
Thanks for the tip Henk. Do you take camomile melatonine combo every night or only when you can’t fall asleep?
Just FYI. I had a bad reaction to .05 mg ( half mg) of melatonin. I had a hyper reaction and stayed up all night with heart racing. Within a few hours it cause “severe” tinnitus that a year later is much quieter but hasn’t gone away. My Doc thought I had the reaction because my GABA receptors were damaged so they responded to the melatonin with an opposite reaction. I would start with an extremely low dose maybe 0.2 or 0.3 mg as Henk suggested. I think most people do ok with it but I had an unlucky response.
Hi Lukasz,I use both every night,but,as Dee wrote,start with the lowest dose (0,2 or 0,3 mg) and only add 0,1 mg at a time when needed). At times I sleep well on 0,3 mg,and the Camomile tea.You might even try the tea on its own,first,to see what this does for you.An adverse reaction on melatonine is extremely rare ( your body produces melatonine every evening) but better be sure.
Meditation,a little walk,shortly before going to bed,NO electronic screen (TV,computer etc),and,if possible,NO led light;the blue component in these light-sources disrupt your biological clock.The healthiest lightsource is a candescolent lamp,or a few candles,because the lightcolour of those is close to that of the sun at sunset.
A warning,here,for ledlight and ledscreens: the blue component in this light appears to be very damaging to your eyes.And fluorescent lamps sometimes emit so much UV-light that people who are highly sensitive to UV can get a sunburn when sitting too close to such a lamp (for instance,to read a book). Floxies need to take this very serious because part of them already have eye problems,me too.And those don’t seem to heal.
Just a comment……….. This week I had my shot of Avastin in the eye for my “wet AMD”. I was asked “how are you”? My answer was “I feel lousy”!!! His follow up question was “oh why”? I said because I have Fluoroquinolone Toxicity. I said that the FQ needed to be figured into my eye problems. I mentioned retinal detachment. At that point he became very disinterested in going forward with the conversation. His comment was. “Some dummy wrote a paper on the subject that got published”. “There is no real proof that FQ has anything to do with it”. Since the doctor is supposed to “always know best” I abandoned the subject, got my injection, and our conversation was over.
For those who are not familiar with AVASTAN. It is a cancer chemotherapy drug. It is being used “off label” as an eye injection because it is effective against the wet form of AMD. It shrinks the errant and leaking blood vessels behind the retina that are pushing it away from it’s attachment. In my researching of the drug it appears that it does not have any Fluoride in it.
Wikipedia ……… Chemistry
Bevacizumab was originally derived from a mouse monoclonal antibody generated from mice immunized with the 165-residue- form of recombinant human vascular endothelial growth factor. It was humanized by retaining the binding region and replacing the rest with a human full light chain and a human truncated IgG1 heavy chain, with some other substitutions. The resulting plasmid was transfected into Chinese Hamster Ovary cells which are grown in industrial fermentation systems. UGH!!!! What a combination!
Henk………. Very good information about the blue light emitted by LED screens, LED and fluorescent lights. I bought a pair of “blue blocker” prescription glasses that are ground to the distance I am from my computer screen. Nothing close and nothing far but they work well within their range.
Another interesting but confusing thing. The “retina specialist” eyed doctor’s comment on blue blocker lenses was that they are over hyped. But my regular optometrist on the other hand was in favor of them. Go figure???
I go through the same thing with my retinal specialist, who I now have to see since Cipro. My vision went from 20/20 to 20/60 overnight. It was so filled with huge, unmoving floaters, that it was like, as a friend said, “looking through egg drop soup.” I saw so many of the little black “dot” floaters that they would appear to me like entire walls and floors were covered in ants. I started getting flashes of light and now I am being monitored because it appear that a whole area of the retina is pulling away from the vitreous. When I told him about the cipro he seemed disinterested at best. (It should be noted that cipro eye drops seem to be the “go to” choice for eye surgeons.) Every time I go, I go armed with more papers. I am so sick of these god complexes, where cannot imagine that they are lacking in some part of their training. (was this the one you showed him? April 4, 2012 Oral Fluoroquinolones and the Risk of Retinal Detachment (excerpt) Mahyar Etminan, PharmD, MSc (epi); Farzin Forooghian, MD, MSc, FRCSC; James M. Brophy, MD, PhD, FRCPC; et al JAMA. 2012;307(13):1414-1419. doi:10.1001/jama.2012.383 )
Also went through this with an ENT I saw last week. Having congestion issues for months and suspected allergies, then silent reflux (but I truly think it is mast cell activation disorder from the cipro.) Anyhow, he mentioned Proton Pump Inhibitors and I said I wouldn’t take them, and they are no better than placebos for treating silent reflux. He started arguing with me that I was wrong. I just sent him two different papers, totaling EIGHT studies showing this. He’ll probably drop me as a patient.
It is rather interesting (if it were not so pathetic) how the doctor has something for you to take and then another thing for the side effects and then another thing for the side effects of the thing you are taking to combat the side effects of the first drug. All this and the first drug did not work to begin with.
I keep saying their profession is called a “practice” because that is what they are doing.
Don,”malpractice” would,in my opinion,be a better word. Books,docu’s and daily news about what’s wrong with “scientificly proven” medicines,devices (seen ” The Cutting Edge”?) and all the fraud and corruption of both the industry and our governments,who should protect us give us an ever clearer view of what’s really going on.We need way more people like “your” Ron Paul to put an end to this And waaay more intelligent voters!
I have to throw this in about “floaters”. Amusing but aggravating too. I had one very small floater that would move around when ever I looked in a different place. At first I thought it was a gnat that was buzzing around in front of my computer screen. I never could swat it and get it.
well then imagine hundreds of those gnats. that’s what I experienced, and yes I kept turning to the side to see if there were bugs there. The big column-like floaters were the worst though. like I had gauze or a scarf in front of me eyes. At one point I couldn’t see further than a couple feet ahead of me. I had had such great vision so all of this has been just soul-crushing. Oh, and at one point, in addition to ocassional flashes of light, which can signal retinal detachment, I had a terrifying “light show” in the central vision of one eye that went on for almost ten minutes. It was like an arc, that had little electrical impulses on top of it, right in the center of my vision. Luckily I have not had a repeat of that.
For those of you mentioning your eye issues: Did you have tightness and pain behind the eye, or swelling under the eye? My eye doctor is clueless if it is tendon related or if Cipro in someway attacked the sinus cavity.
A vet just tried to give cipro eye drops to my cat and my wife stopped her. She said that is their first choice (mild infection) The poor animals can’t complain.
Bob…..Your right. “The poor animals can’t complain”. They can’t approve or disapprove and tell us they feel so bad from the Cipro or any other Fluoroquinolone. I don’t like to use the word “stupidity” because they have to go through a lot of education to get where they are. I think the best way to explain it is “brain washing”. Throughout their education they are brain washed and willfully so to look to prescription medicine first for everything.
I suggested Colloidal Silver to my Vet (nice friendly fellow) and he immediately said “NO” it turns their tongue blue. Well……… I have been giving it to my cats for over 5 years and their tongues ain’t blue yet. I put a couple ounces in their gallon waterer and the water never grows any algae or any other junk. Even outside when the heat is at 110. I keep clean water outside for any cat that needs it.
I have given Colloidal Silver to them when they looked a bit off and within a couple of days they are back to normal. I can only say that my Vet is a bit uninformed and ignorant when it comes to the topic of Colloidal Silver.
Never take the chance of saddling you pet with the devastating side/after effects of Fluoroquinolones. “NEVER”!!!
Yeah for your wife! It just astounds me that almost NONE of these doctors/vets ever bother to research drugs before they use them.
Bob……… Bathe the cat’s eyes with Colloidal Silver. You might be surprised at the results and how quick too. It can’t hurt. I use it in my eyes and for years a Silver Nitrate salve was put in all newborn children’s eyes to stave off any infections at birth. It is a natural “go to” for pinkeye in humans. Damned prescriptions are not always the answer.
We did use silver at first. It persisted then we used a mild antibiotic sparingly.
Thanks Henk. I appreciate all the info. If I go the melatonin route, I’ll be sure to start with low doses as per your recommendation.
Well,don’t forget Dee;he was the first to write about the risks before I got to mention you’d better start with a low dose. I think it’s always best to go for the lowest dose that works,anyway,be it natural or synthetic supps or med’s.
Melatonine is on the market in synthetic form (the usual),but also in a natural form. Here the natural form is sold under the name “Melatomatine”.
PPIs = 💀
The triple “therapy” that I was given for the eradication of h. pylori contained a PPI and I don’t know which was one worse, the antibiotic or the PPI. I know you know this already L. but for those that don’t, PPIs create HELL in the stomach. Avoid at all costs.
Also, it should be said that most people who contract h. pylori will never see any problems in their lifetime. 85% of the population has it and live with no problems.
Thanks to Dee as well for the precautions. And it’s good to know that melatonin also comes in natural form. Hopefully, it’s as effective as its’ synthetic cousin.
Hey guys, I’m afraid I’ve contracted a genital infection. I still don’t konw if it’s just an infection or a true STD. Anyway, right now I’m just taking some antifungal cream. Tomorrow I’m going to my doctor and see what he’d prescribe me. Anyway, any suggestion ? Topical antibiotic cream and/or antibiotic pills, of course I’d like to avoid them. But what can I do?
I think it would depend on which one, but I came across this https://draxe.com/chlamydia-symptoms/
Never forget Colloidal Silver. Will it work? It may not be the ultimate cure but using it both internally and topically won’t hurt. Silver use is as old as civilization and was the go to germ killer before antibiotics pushed it out. It has been “laboratory proven” by the Brigham Young University that it will react on over 600 pathogens. It has also been proven that it enhances antibiotic drugs when added to the regimen. Never has there been a record of it killing anyone. Can you say that about “prescription drugs”?
I’ve read many times the article Lisa posted about antibiotics after being floxed. Does anyone have a direct experience. I hope I’m not going to take anything, but in the unfortunate case, what you guys think could be the least dangerous?
z-pak or amoxicillin I think
Amoxicilline is a known magnesium-robber!
Geeees!!!! At my last go around with my UTI I first received an IV of 500 mg of Leviquin in the ER and then when I came home I spent the next 10 days on concomitant doses of 500 mg Cipro (twice daily) and 500 mg of Amoxicllin (3 times daily) with a supplementary dose of Colloidal Silver. It worked. The UTI was gone. But what damage the treatment has left!!!
That’s when I began reading on the Internet and determined that my multitude of problems must be from being toxed/poisoned by Fluoroquinolones.
With the depletion of magnesium by Fluoroquinolones and also Amoxicillin my MG level must have been near zero.
I have been working to restore that MG level.
Thanks for the comment about Amoxicillin being a magnesium robber too.
Yeah L, I’ve always thought amoxicilline was one of the least dangerous AB out there, but after reading the last few comments I don’t know what to think…
Z PAC is very dangerous.
well, exclamation points aside, virtually ALL antibiotics leech magnesium. I still believe amoxicillin is one of the more benign ones. Dr Jay Cohen, in his book, suggests taking magnesium while on the antibiotic (even though they say not to) and just taking it around 4 hours apart from the pills.
I avere with you L. Thanks for the info. I think they say to not take magnesium because the antibiotic would be less effective if your’re supplementing with It. Do you agree?
absolutely. they don’t want it to interfere with the drug. that’s why dr cohen suggests taking magnesium 4 hours away from it
Thanks L. You’re talking about amoxicillin, right? So even dr Choen said it’s one of the least dangerous AB?
no, sorry, Dr Cohen was referring actually to flqs…in the event that you HAD to take it. But I was just extrapolating that to any antibiotic. Sadly they all have side effects, and I think you just have to research any one and decide. Ones I would definitely stay away from are flagyl and Macrobid. (Which is too bad because Macrobid targets UTIs …something that caused many of us to end up here.) I hope to never have to take an antibiotic again, but if I had to, I would ask for z-pack or amoxicillin.
Well this is funny. I was just going to ask if anyone took amoxicillin a long time after fluroquinolones. I was floxed severely six years ago. I recovered 60/70%. But I have a UTI after giving birth I can’t get rid of. It’s been like 90days so today I caved and took the first amoxicillin and now I’m freaking out! I took NAC 30 minutes prior since I read a study that it helps with oxidative stress when on antibiotic. Any other suggestions. Should I take magnesium 4 hours after? The antibiotic is twice a day. I tried dmannose but it didn’t fully get rid of infection. Should I continue with d mannose too?
There are natural ways to get rid of a UTI. L reads floxie home page and has cured her UTIs naturally. Hopefully she will read this and respond to you. I would love her “recipe” for curing one too. Maybe she can help you I hope!!
Hi Heather
I’ve used oregano oil at least 3 times for a uti since being floxed and worked every time I bought Swansons 10:1 concentrate and take 1capsule 3 x day
Joanne, I’m still battling with my stomach. Early wakeup with urgent need for bathroom. Am very loose and or diarrhea. I remember you telling me that VSL #3 helped your stomach?? When did you take it and how much?? Is there anything else that you felt made a big difference with your stomach symptoms??? I can’t remember if you fought with diarrhea or other issues? My stomach is one of my last symptoms I am battling along with anxiety and tinnitus. My bathroom needs are triggered very early in the morning and I make several trips and then it is over. I think it is nervous system or adrenal glands kicked into hyperdrive early in the morning??? Any helpful suggestions for calming and slowing my stomach??? Thanks Joann!!
Hi Dee,
I never had to deal with diarrhea except when taking to much magnesium or when I had a intestinal infection (self diagnosed) which involved diarrhea and pain that felt like growing infection pain in my lower right abdominal area involving the ileocecal valve. Anyhow, olive leaf extract capsules worked extremely well for this.
So, if you think it might be an infection, I would definitely try olive leaf extract. If you don’t think it’s an infection, maybe you can try taking a fiber supplement to bulk up your stool until you can figure out what the real problem is.
yes, I would take the mag 4 hours away and definitely a good quality probiotic. So much damage comes from depleted healthy gut bacteria. This is what dr cohen said in his book regarding taking mag with flqs “IT was found that the minerals can be taken four hours apart from FQs without affecting either’s absorption or activity.”
I would also suggest you find a female naturopath, who can give you a non-drug protocol for treating UTIs. I remember the “ingredients” but not the amounts, which vary day to day. It’s supposed to take two weeks—it took me a month, but I stuck with it and it got rid of my UTI.
BTW D-mannose does not cure a UTI. IT is more preventive. What it does is keep the little buggers from sticking to wall. Again, please find a female ND, who should have the natural protocol.
I did take super bioveg which is like naturopath antibiotic. Everything would lessen it but not fully cure the UTI. The fast test comes out negative but when they send out for culture it’s positive. So annoyed I avoided all medicine through two births no epidurals and through bronchitis etc but this UTI is persistent so I’m trying the amoxicillin and trying not to panic. Just wondering if anyone took any antibiotics since and we’re fine and what supplements they took with it?
May I make a suggestion here? Get your UTI bug cultured. Yes. The majority of UTI’s are e-Coli but not all. My experience. My primary pathogen was e-Coli, a gram negative bug (which the Cipro would control) but in my case I had a secondary infection too. It was Enterococus, a gram positive pathogen and (contrary to what the doctors kept saying) Cipro would not control it. I had to use Amoxicillin to control it. The doctors had me on a roller coaster for a couple of years because it was first one antibiotic and then the other. Neither had enough time to do it’s work. I finally went against the doctors and took both Cipro and Amoxicillin together and the UTI problem was solved. Yes I have come out “floxed”.
I repeat. Get the bug cultured and find the drug it is sensitive to. Taking the wrong antibiotic will do you no good. Maybe Amoxicillin is right but one does not know unless the culture and sensitivity is done.
I would like to add a note here.
In the past few years science (outside the medical clique) has found that adding Colloidal Silver to the antibiotic regimen enhanced the effectiveness of the antibiotic. They have found that some antibiotics that were no longer effective were rejuvenated and actually became effective when Colloidal Silver was used concomitantly.
When I had my last bout with a UTI my regimen was Cipro 500 mg 2 daily, Amoxicillin 500 mg 3 daily and a table spoon of Colloidal Silver with each antibiotic dose. I did this for 10 days.
I DO NOT recommend this to anyone but after 55 years of 7 Urologists and half a dozen other “specialized” doctors thrown in I chose to do it myself and it has worked.
Personally I think that introducing Colloidal Silver into the bladder by catheterization daily would cure most UTI infections in a short time. AND PROBABLY WITH NO SIDE EFFECTS.
But it is an outside the box treatment so finding a doctor who would agree to do it????? Good luck.
Hi Don thanks for the advice. They did culture it. It was e coli. Of course they didn’t test amoxicillin during the culture but I was to afraid to take augmentin or cephalosporins. They did say they tested a iv one in same class as amoxicillin so hoping for the best.
I was treated for severe UTI symptoms, on 3 occasions within a 6 month period. Finally, on the third time they sent the urine to a lab and found no bacteria. So, all 3 times it was urethral syndrome due to wine mixed with spicy food, plus caffeine. They were fooled by the in-office urine test because it showed inflammation or irritation, but bacteria was confirmed negative in lab tests. I share this information just in case others read this, and they have urethral syndrome and not a UTI, which share the same symptoms.
Excellent information Anna. Yes………. Foods and beverages can be irritants to the urinary tract. If a UTI is suspected the urine should ALWAYS be cultured and a sensitivity test also run. Far to many times the doctor’s “shot in the dark” guess on the right antibiotic for the particular bacteria is wrong. The result is the patient must endure failure before a turn around is made and they feel well again.
Been there and done that way too many times before I wised up. Just a comment………. Usually (most of the time) a UTI will be accompanied with a temperature above normal. An elevated temperature and UT pain generally mean a UTI.
In my opinion a culture and sensitivity is in order to get off on the right treatment immediately.
Yed Don, you are correct about the temperature, because I never had a temperature. I would have cold shakes with no temperature, and have unbearable burning pain in the urethra, along with urgency. Also, appropriate to mention in this forum for any women reading: Endometriosis Of Bladder will also cause the same symptoms of a UTI — I keep mentioning these two things, because so may women are given antibiotics for severe UTI symptoms yet it is either Urethral syndrome or Endometriosis On Bladder — I took so many antibiotics that I never needed all because general practitioners have no clue what these other two afflictions are.
Information is what is needed to counteract the seemingly run away prescribing by the doctors. Don’t apologize for trying to pass on information. Information and plenty of first hand experiences is what is needed by us all to be able to determine when a doctor is off track. Far to many of them are “off track” and it smells like the reason is MONEY.
Heather……………. Augmentin is Amoxicillin and Clavulanic Acid. Google Clavulanic Acid. Rather interesting. Itself it is not and antibiotic but seems to be kind of a diversion that allows the Amoxicillin to not be resisted by the bacteria.
Didn’t work for me against the e Coli but as the saying goes we are all different.
http://www.myquinstory.info/antibiotics-after-fqs/
Hey Don, I read the above when trying to decide what to do
I don’t know how accurate it is obviously it’s anecdotal but it says Augmentin was tolerated in 50% versus amoxicillin tolerated by 75%.
I did know about the clavulanic acid and assumed that may be why people tolerate it less but who knows. So far from my two doses of amoxicillin today the only side effects I have are stomach irritation and feeling more tired.
As important as tolerance is…………. Is the antibiotic effective against the bacteria? Good and well tolerated antibiotics are useless unless they are effective against the particular bacteria. That’s why a culture and sensitivity is so important.
Over a period of 25 years the 7 Urologists I was shuffled among each had to run all their tests and then proceeded to prescribe for me just about every antibiotic that was on the market at the time. I was given so many that I can’t remember the names of them all.
Many of them worked (to some degree) in the cell culture dish in the lab but were ineffective invivo.
It was not until Cipro came to clinical trials in 1986 that I found one that worked. But then it appears that I developed the compound infection and Cipro would not completely tamp them both down. (Cipro is now known [contrary to what the doctors of the day thought] for being less effective against Gram positive bacteria)
Enterococus is a Gram positive while e Coli is a Gram negative.
Levaquin was developed to be more effective against Gram positive bacteria. We all know now that Levaquin is at the top of the list for nasty side/after effects.
Not until I began the concomitant use of Cipro and Amoxicillin (on my own) did I conquer the 2 infections.
How I tolerated the pair as well as I did??? That I will never understand knowing what I know now. It seems that my ignorance along with total lack of information from the doctors somehow pulled me through. But being floxed now is pretty obvious.
Guys, I Need some infos about this antivirale drug : acyclovir. It is used ti treat herpes. Antonio info? Is It Dangerous for floxies?
Sorry for the typo. Anyway any info ?
It’s supposed to be bad the first time, but then get weaker and weaker and eventually burn out over time. LYSINE and avoid arginine (chocolate, nuts)
Hey Andrea, I just remembered another thing you can do from my yoga training. The virus is supposedly camped out in the sacral, tailbone area of the body, so the boat pose and other back bending is helpful. In yoga, you can think of the poses like squeezing a sponge. When you release, the area fills with fresh blood and oxygen.
I am so overwhelmed with diarrhea right now so I will try it for the opposite side now!
Hey gang
Haven’t posted here in a several months as I have been in a general recovery phase. In fact I was starting to think that maybe in 3 to 6 months I might write a recovery story, but the last few days changed that – at least for a while. I am just a few days short of my 3 year floxing anniversary (not one I relish celebrating).
My floxing primarily hit five areas – sleeplessness, peripheral neuropathy, severe digestive problems and left knee and achilles tendon problems, along with severe neck pain that led to tinnitus which only hit about 8 months ago. The tendon problems are gone and have been for over 18 months. The PN has always been something that comes and goes, but generally trending in the positive direction. Was horrible 6 months post – floxing then started slowly getting better. I might have a day or two with some issues then a week with none. Typically I would relapse every six months and experience a couple of weeks of slightly worse symptoms, but each relapse would be gentler than the previous. Recently I went from end of May to end of August with basically no PN other than a tad in my feet on two or three days. Digestion has been a roller coaster ride of many different symptoms. Started with gastroparesis and lack of appetite (when first floxed I dropped 30 pounds). That resolved in about 8 months then around a year post – flox I started getting severe heart burn. That has taken nearly two years but now I seem to have beaten that (See my guess as to why in a separate post). Insomnia still not completely beat, but getting close. The tinnitus has even been getting better (now about 1/8 as loud as when first affected), though I expect I will live with a bit of ringing in my ears for my whole life.
So, it would seem that I was close to well. I was having days here or there that I described as 98% normal and most every day was 90% normal for the last month or two. A great massage therapist has the neck pain on the run and that is really helping the tinnitus. Then about 2 weeks ago I started a PN relapse. At first mild, but yesterday it struck with a vengeance and it is the most severe PN relapse I have had since initial floxing!! Problems in feet are about the same as in other relapses, but having tingling in legs and even hands that I haven’t had for nearly 2 years. Know relapses after complete healing are not unheard of, but seem less common the further you are post floxing.
Just need a chance to vent to sympathetic ears. My mom and wife have lost patience with my FQ stories. Sure some encouragement from the group here will help as you have all been there and know the situations. With my three year anniversary coming up it is disheartening because now I wonder if I will ever get to write that recovery story?? Seems like the longer you stay floxed the less the chance for total recovery. Know many of you who are recently affected would love to be where I am today and I too know that compared to where I was 2 1/2 years ago when symptoms were the worst today would seem good. It is about time for my six – month relapse. They are usually October and April, but the April one hit in late March and lasted into April this year. So this is about 2 to 3 weeks early just like the last one. Darn maybe I am having every 5 1/2 month relapses.
Please share how you deal with relapses, especially major ones and how long they tend to last. (I deal poorly, emotionally – and mine tent to last 2 to 4 weeks). Thanks in advance for your words of encouragement and solutions for dealing with relapse.
Hi, sorry about your relapses. I can completely understand your frustrations. It’s my 6 year floxing anniversary Oct 5th. I don’t take much medication but when I get PN flare benedryl helps me. I have low grade constant PN though, nothing like the first two years but like a 1 or 2 out of 10. Im not sure how much is connective tissue damage and how much is PN. Though I’ll have days when it gets worse then I take a benedryl. I’ve read other people have nerve pain helped by benedryl too.
Another emergency: I can’t get over diarrhea. I think I had food poisoning a few months ago, and it keeps recurring. Sadly lactobacillus and saccharomyces boulardii, coconut water, sauerkraut make it worse!
I know I keep harping on “COLLOIDAL SILVER”. But it works in many cases. Will it work for you? I don’t know but I have stopped food poisoning in as little as 4 hours with it. This is not speculation………. it is fact from experiences. If it were me I would keep taking the probiotics and add Colloidal Silver at about 1 ounce a couple times a day for a few days.
Colloidal Silver has no record of ever killing anyone and it has sure helped a lot of people through out history.
https://thesilveredge.com/
Ok! If it’s good enough for the cat, it’s good enough for me!!!
Floxies / Digestion / and MTHF Mutations
Wanted to share some of the findings I have made concerning my problems with digestion post floxing. It has been a mess for me with just about every digestive problem known to medicine. I have had gastroparesis, post-prandial fullness, severe stomach pain and reflux / heartburn only when I burp, but I was burping a 100 times a day over the last three years.
The last two years have been mostly stomach pain and heartburn. I think I have FINALLY solved my digestive problems though. Know FQs destroyed gut bacteria but think my bigger problem was that it was wreaking havoc with the nerves in my digestive tract and that my good bacteria were unable to produce enough Vitamin B for me.
What I think is a solution came together over the last 3 months. My integrative medicine specialist (who believes I was floxed) had me tested for the MTHF mutation. Turns out I am C677T heterozygous – one of the milder mutations. For a typical human this mutation causes few problems as you metabolism Folate at about 60 to 70% of a normal human.
Folate is key in both DNA synthesis and in cellular and mitochondrial division. An important thing that the stupid FQ messed up.
But for a Floxie who may have had half or more of their functional mitochondria destroyed this may may be a huge deal. So, by my math as a floxie I would be correctly metabolizing 50% of the folate I need if I didn’t have the mutation. With the mutation I am probably only metabolizing 30% of the folate I need.
To solve this I started a three part attack. I first tried taking the fully methlyated verion of 5-MTHF, but even 100 mg of this was too much for my system. It caused stomach pain and other side effects, though did seem to help the heartburn. So, I turned to a version that uses folinic acid instead, which is the form of folate one step before full methylation. This form of folate is very important in DNA repair helping the gyrase with its job. To do all that DNA repair though takes lots of energy and my cells are already messed up – so I added in a high quality liposomal glutathione supplement, CoQ10, and lots of electrolytes to help the process.
This combination has led me in three months to nearly completely normal digestion for the first time in three years. It has only been a week of completely normal – so fingers crossed it stays here, but recovery has been fairly steady unlike many other FQ symptoms that bounce up and down. If not for my PN relapse (read separate post above) I would be ecstatic. Even that I think may be caused by my body chewing up Mg and other key nutrients and while I am supplementing at my “traditional” level that may not be enough.
So, here is my current MTHF specific regimine:
1. Quicksilver Methyl B complex – 2 squirts (I full dose) in AM (has to be on empty stomach)
2. Aurora liposomal Glutathione – 20ml in AM (has to be on empty stomach)
30 minutes later Breakfast
3. Garden of Life CoQ10 – 1 tablet with breakfast
4. Electrolyte powder (mix in water) 5 days a week – I skip Wednesday and Sunday used to wash down all the pills.
I have also really tried to get lots of sunlight to naturally increase Vitamin D production this summer. I also take Vitamin K and Mg as a supplement and then also take a full body Epsom salt bath once to twice a week and a foot soak once to twice a week – not both twice though.
Would love to know how many floxies test positive for MTHF and of those who do how many have digestive problems. If you are a floxie with digestive problems and haven’t been tested for MTHF I would suggest you do so.
If you are floxie and MTHF mutant with digestive problems I would suggest you try my solution. It isn’t cheap – that regimine will run you about $100 a month since all the supplements are super high quality. If you try it let us know and maybe we can find something that actually solves some issues for us.
Hi A.Coleman,
I just wanted to let you know that every time I’ve tried a glutathione supplement it would send me into a relapse. So maybe that’s what’s happening with you. Just something to consider.
Joanne,
Thanks for the feedback. I know glutathione can trigger relapses when people aren’t ready for the affects it triggers. I have been using it for several months now and doing okay before this relapse. I did ramp up slowly from 5ml to 20ml. Maybe 20ml is too much. I may try going back to 10ml for awhile and see if that helps.
I hope you find what triggered a worse relapse, in my experience there usually is one.
Good luck😊
Very interesting post. I also have the mutation. Did protocol help PN any? Mine is off the charts.
Bob, sorry but it hasn’t clearly helped my PN. Maybe indirectly hurt by tying up nutrients the nerves in the extremities need in my digestive system. Trying for a month wouldn’t be the worst thing though since those are probably all supplements you take currently just maybe not the exact forms of the folate.
This might be of interest for anyone with tooth problems,and interested in ozone:
Ozone therapy in periodontics
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3307081/
And one about prostate problems and the Beck Protocol:
https://www.bobbeck.com/ViewDetails.aspx?PrimaryID=1682&CurrentPageIndex=0