Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




22,597 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. L September 3, 2019 at 10:56 am Reply

    I wanted to post this link because I think it may have valuable info for everyone on the site. This doesn’t happen until Oct but you can sign up now to get a link. Yes, they have stuff for sale, but you don’t have to buy anything. You can watch for free. I spent the last week watching as many videos as I could (they are usually only offered for free for 24 hours) regarding the dangers of 5g. I got some invaluable information, not just on its dangers and how to help combat it but also how to help fight to keep it out of your town. Anyhow, I am signing up for this and wanted to let others know. Again you don’t have to buy anything unless you want a permanent cd of it. http://bodyelectricsummit.com/?idev_id=11469

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 3, 2019 at 11:04 am Reply

      Here is a link to an international anti 5G appeal:


      • L September 3, 2019 at 11:35 am Reply

        That’s a GREAT site. I have it in my “files.” So much good information and links to studies. I use it when I write to public officials.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 3, 2019 at 11:44 am

          Might also be the most efficient petition,because it’s international,like the 5G network,and the health issue itself.

  2. L September 3, 2019 at 10:58 am Reply

    ooops, forgot to mention…the above link is for talks on The Body Electric Summit — Drs. Christine Schaffner and Dietrich Klinghardt : How to crack your energetic code
    + How to heal old trauma
    + How to leverage pulsed EMF and neurofeedback
    + Determine if you’re highly sensitive to energy
    + Measure the impact of cell phone frequencies
    + Discover how to use red light and photodynamic therapies
    + Understand biomagnetism, bioenergy and beyond

  3. Fred J Scott September 3, 2019 at 4:34 pm Reply

    For those who take CBD to sleep – how much did you have to take to nod off? I weight 195 – I think I need 20-30 mg – interested to see how much others have needed. Thanks in advance.

  4. sheila September 4, 2019 at 9:05 am Reply

    I have been checking and double checking my supplement after questions about it and L. I don’t see any green tea listed on this label, and all the vegetables used are organic, all the fruits used are organic, I have now asked the company and waiting for a response to some of the questions and remarks thrown out about it…….if you go to megafood dot com you can see how the products are made and read all about the ingredients….

    Thing is this is a site for suggestions from people who have had a product that worked for them even being floxed and that’s all I did – this works great for me I can’t do green tea due to the caffeine and this doesn’t have it listed……it’s gentle and has less folate than any other vitamin in the vegan or vegetarian products…….

    I am not telling anyone they have to use it…. I was asked what I used and this is it, I explained why I liked it and why I continue to use it that’s all……and once again no one should take anything without first researching it for themselves but that’s what the original question was for – to find out where to begin with so many options out there it took me days to finally make the decision to try this one and I did it with trepidation but now I am glad I did cause I feel a lot better and at least know I am getting organic products and vegan sources
    sometimes trying to be helpful can be a pain in the arse……..

    Fred they do have a Men’s Health one if you are interested I saw it on their website

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 9:37 am Reply

      Sheila,don’t blame L.;it was may who pointed you to the green tea extract. On their website,the page about Multi for Women 55+,it says:” crafted with a blend of vitamins, minerals and green tea leaf extract”.


      A producer can make a multisupp.,with organic greens in it (bio-organic would be better),ánd still add synthetic vitamines.That’s why it amazes me there’s no garantee to be found on their webpage that no synthetic substances were added.This doesn’t mean there are synthetic components in this multi,but without a garantee you can’t be sure.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 9:44 am Reply

      Oh,and Sheila,don’t be upset: I’m just an over-cautious guy,and indeed:what works for you might work as well for others. Still a bit concerned about that green tea leaf extract,to be honest.

      • Sheila rogers September 4, 2019 at 10:28 am Reply

        I haven’t seen anything about green tea where are you seeing that?? and L was concerned about the folate which I did look at my bottle and it’s 200 where the RDA is 400 still leaves room for food intake of folate, are you sure you’re looking at my product?? I am curious now cause I don’t see it, can you direct me 🙂

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 11:00 am

          Well,I just directed you to their website,and the page about your supplement.And I even quoted the excact line (copy-pasted directly from their webpage).It’s right at the start of the page,in de description of your supplement.I can’t find a complete ingredient list,but I still get a message of an error,lower on the page,so,part of the page is not vissible to me.Might be that there is the ingredient list,or,it’s where the list ought to be.

          Because this info is on their website,the green tea leaf extract should be mentioned on the package as well.Very strange,that you can’t find it,there.

          When the folate is in the L-5 MTHF form,this might be the right form for people with the gene mutation,like L. (methylated).

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:20 am

          sorry I must have missed that particular post or read over it, I will scroll back up and see if I can find that link again

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:23 am

          Ok that’s a different product it’s not the one I use and I see the green leaf extract listed on this one but mine is different, I’ll post it here for input thanks!

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 10:50 am

          When your product differs from the one on the original website of the producer,you might have a falcificated product in hand.

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:52 am

          yes that is worrisome I have contacted the megafood corp to ask them as they also said their product has green tea extract so I will hope it’s just a label typo or something I know amazon has issues with some supplements being knock offs I just never had it happen before…..thanks for pointing that out

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 10:53 am

          When your product differs from the product on the official website of the product maker,you might have a falcification on your hand.

    • L September 4, 2019 at 10:26 am Reply

      I wasn’t the one who mentioned green tea. I made the comment re folic acid instead of real folate.

      • Sheila rogers September 4, 2019 at 10:29 am Reply

        so my bottle says – folate (L-5 MTHF with broccoli) – does that identify anything ??? does the L5 Mthf mean acid?? I’m confused

        • L September 4, 2019 at 11:23 am

          That’s great! That’s what you want. The one I looked at on line said “from folic acid and broccoli” or something like that. But no that’s is exactly the form you want.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 11:29 am

          So,the Folate form is oké,but then,there’s still that tea extract. And they write that the supplement ingredients (and quatities?),for all target groups,differ.

        • L September 4, 2019 at 11:50 am

          well, I am with you about the green tea (if it’s there) but I still think a multi is a waste. You want to get most of your nutrients from food sources, and then just take supplements for those that you don’t get enough of, or that target specific conditions. I think by taking a multi you could be in danger of getting too much of something that you are already getting from diet. Just my opinion though. If someone thinks it helps them, then that’s what’s important

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 11:59 am

          L.,I totally agree.I only take Vit.K2,Magn.Bisglycinate,and in winter some extra vit. D3. I take Zinc,in periods of a few month, and breaks in between.Same for vit.B12 (spray).But lots of vegetables and fruit;I love both,but limit fruits because of the sugar.

        • L September 4, 2019 at 12:02 pm

          sounds like my regimen (my ND actually had me on 10,000 units of D initially…that’s how low I was and I am in sunny CA!) I also take an eye vitamin for the macular degeneration (thanks cipro!) and fish oil caps because of another genetic mutation… I also sometimes take supplements to help the mitochondria like ubiquinol and pqq

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:18 am

          I seem to have a weird issue with vitamins and supplements – if I take a specific supplement I get sick, it’s like that concentrated amount is just too much whereas mixed in with other stuff I can take it, it used to be the other way around, where multi’s made me so sick but now if I try for instance to take something as simple as calcium citrate I will be sick, if I take magnesium or even vitamin C alone without it being in a multi I get sick…..any clue as to why that is?? I find it to be a major pain cause I would like to target specific lacks but can’t

          I have osteoporosis and need to up my calcium but unable to do so with a supplement……so I have become addicted to ice cream and cheese which is horrible for my weight but I have trouble getting calcium I’m a mess……at least I am feeling some relief with the multi that may change as I get filled up with certain vitamins and minerals but my diet has been seriously crap for over 3 years now and I needed something…….but any help on this weird scenario is appreciated.

        • L September 5, 2019 at 10:24 am

          Not sure why that is happening. But I will tell you that too much calcium can be bad. So if you are getting calcium from your died you may not want it in a supplement. I too have osteoporosis (or at least osteopenia) likely from may years of drugs like asthma meds and antidepressants that can contribute to that. What you may not have enough of that is also crucial to bones are vitamin d and magnesium. Prior to floxing calcium was the only supplement I took. AFTER floxing it is about the only one I don’t take! https://www.healthline.com/health/hypercalcemia

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:44 am

          Do you have any suggestions on how to take either of those without getting sick to my stomach I’ve tried food that doesn’t help I have tried with the calcium taking low does throughout the day but it always triggers a massive bout of acid reflux so I am scared to take D & Mag knowing I have had issues with them too without some advice, any suggestions would be great, thanks

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 11:00 am

          When you’re low in stomach acid,already,and you take a calcium supplement,you will get acid reflux,for shure.As I wrote,before;osteoporoses is NOT caused by not eating enough calcium rich food,but by too low magnesium,K2 and D intake.A little more salt in your food might help producing more stomach acid,and lesser reflux.

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 11:12 am

          interesting info thanks!!

          And I just got off the phone with Megafoods I mean let’s just call them!! and there are 2 different women over 55 products and the one I ordered does not have green tea and we went over all the fine points of the label and determined it was truthfully THEIR product not an imposter thank god, and she said that anyone wanting to order any megafood vitamins from amazon their ONLY true distributer to amazon is NetRush anything else they have no control over and mine was ordered from NetRush thank god…….
          She also answered the synthetic question: she said they do not use any GMO ingredients as listed on the website and the way they do their ingredients is for instance the Vitamin A with beta carotene and carrot – is made by taking the beta carotene that was isolated and injecting it into the cell nucleus of the carrot and that’s all they do…..synthetic would mean a man made product meant to mimic an organic one and they don’t do that
          so I feel much better about the product now…….learn something new every day!!

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 12:05 pm

          Some questions answered,new questions arise.The “synthetic” question is not answered by: we don’t use GMO ingredients.

          ” the way they do their ingredients is for instance the Vitamin A with beta carotene and carrot – is made by taking the beta carotene that was isolated and injecting it into the cell nucleus of the carrot and that’s all they do” ???

          “synthetic would mean a man made product meant to mimic an organic one and they don’t do that” Did they garantee that they don’t use ANY synthetic ingredient,or did they just dance around the question? Like the “injecting Beta Carotene into the cell nucleaus” thing sound like commercial Abra Cadabra to me.Sorry,for me,being so skeptic; I’ve seen and read enough about the “million ways to fool the customer”,during the last 15+ years,to have grown into a “Master Skeptic” :-((

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 2:00 pm

          you sound as suspicious as I do normally, she was not in the least hesitant with her answers she wasn’t searching for a way to convince me in other words, she answered straight forward and described the process and I have seen this process in some of my researching years ago so I was familiar with her description and I asked directly that there were no man made ingredients and she said no it was all derived from plants

          if you can think of anything I need to ask directly I will and can call them back won’t hurt my feelings none to do so…….

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 2:12 pm

          “I asked directly that there were no man made ingredients and she said no it was all derived from plants”.

          That’s what I wanted to know,Sheila;a straight forward garantee that there are no synthetics in it.

          My questions where just for “Want to Know”;like L,I prefer getting as much as possible,my vit’s and minerals from my food.Only when I’m pretty sure I have a defficiency in some vit. or min. I use a supplement of the best quality I can find and pay.

          Thanks for answering my questions,and for your patience with me,being so skeptic.

        • Sheila rogers September 6, 2019 at 4:48 pm

          perfectly fine to be skeptic it keeps us safe and healthy!! and it was good to have them answered so even I feet good about my choice. My diet recently (3 years) has been crap due to too many family issues, moving twice and so forth to have any time to cook properly so it was the grab and run not burger joints but fast food nonetheless like subway and stuff where at least I could make better choices than burger food…..but the ability for me to get my nutrients in proper quantity that way was impossible, I knew I was low on probably everything as soon as I feel weirded out by this vitamin I will of course stop but right now it gives me energy I haven’t had and I sleep better at night for me that’s a win win…..

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 7, 2019 at 5:50 am

          Hi Sheila,I feel happy for you;every improvement is welcome.Please,keep us updated about everything you try,and how/if it works.What helps you,might help others as well.Have a nice weekend!

        • Sheila rogers September 8, 2019 at 12:28 pm

          well I can attest to the fact that grief doesn’t help, my brother’s wife collapsed and was unconscious for over a week on a ventilator no reason, but after tests turns out she has lung cancer with 20 tumors in her brain, she woke up was making such good headway they put her in a room of her own and started physical therapy then they did a biopsy of the one on her lung and within 3 days she was dead, fluid building up and draining was just getting worse. And just a few weeks before my cat of 21 years passed; and then of course we have the total idiocy of my family of 3 (mom, my brother and me) my mom and brother have always retreated to their own corners to grieve alone leaving me to stand alone needing to grieve WITH someone – and in that grieving alone I am now hurting all over, joints are aching and my head feels like it will explode……I’m so tired I just want to sleep all the time, it’s beginning to ease but my joints are getting worse, so I guess it’s a slow creep upwards again. Any suggestions for joint pain??? like a cream?? joints are popping like crazy again and cracking, then I have the deep aches in my hips……anything you can suggest is welcomed.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 8, 2019 at 1:55 pm

          Hi Sheila,I’m sad to hear that in your life,as well,medics play a negative role.Where we expect them to be there and help us to get better,oh,so often they just make things worse.I think that humanity might be better off without them,and I sometimes try to imagine how the science of natural remedies might have developed if not most of our money would have gone to “Modern,science based Medicine” (quackery,run by mad alchemists),but to traditional medicine,with herbs,etc.And now,those idiots are trying to gain patents on those traditional herbs,knowing that their chemical “cures” make more and more victims,and,thanks to the WWW,more and more people start to understand their criminal behaviour.Now they want to take the real medicines from us.

          I know about the joint noise;it made me feel like I was falling apart.Took a long time before those nasty sounds,sometimes accompanied by pains,slowly disappeared.Sometimes a little “crack”,mostly from my spine,but not the annoying sound,as if I was an old and rusty robot,in severe need of oil for my moving parts.Liters of it

          I just wrote Fred an answer to,more or less,the same subject;how to handle with those painfull and cracking joints.I think that magnesium (magn. “oil” ,magnesium bath/or magn. soaked towels,bandages etc.) may be the first to try.I often use (and used) my magnetic pulser but that is not everyone’s “peace of cake”.

          I had a dog and a cat (and yes:they were friends :-)) and both reached a respectable age.The dog,a german shepard died at 15 years old (10-12 is the normal age,and his doc was suprised that he got that old),and my cat died at 22 years old.I had adopted both because they had been with several other “owners” (how can you “own” another living being???),before,and I wanted to end their “being thrown around between owners”).

          Lossing your sister in law,and your beloved cat,in such a short period,is a logical reason for grief,but,indeed,it doesn’t help.Having a brother and a mom who don’t feel any need of sharing grief,not theirs,and not yours,doesn’t make things easier.I have experienced good friends,pushing me away in times I needed them most.Not willing to share the sad times of my life because it could spoil their pleasant life.

          A girlfriend (for over 20 years!) made use of my desperate situation by entering my house,with a longtime and criminal friend of her’s,and stealing a lot of personal,and irreplaceable things (among which the photo’s I made of friends,children I took care of for several years,and the photo’s I made of my favorite brother,a few weeks before he died of leukemia),while I was visiting a good friend and his wife,who invited me to recover a weekend at their place,after I had 2 very hefty heart arrythmia within 2 weeks and ended up being hurried to hospital in an ambulance.It’s in bad times,that you get to know who’s a friend,and who isn’t.

          Saying I’m disappointed in humanity is a gross understatement.I went from trusting everybody,untill proven not trustworthy,to “trust nobody,untill you’re pretty sure that person can be trusted”,and have a hard time in accepting this is the better,and,above all,safer way to live.Now I have to get used that the same goes for doctors (and politicians,but in those I had little trust,to begin with.

          Well,I’m lucky to know my way on the WWW,and finding websites like FloxieHope helped a lot.And my lifelong interest in natural ways of healing,and the power of herbs and other natural remedies (thanks to my love of nature) helped a lot,as well,as did my fascination of electricity,and the discovery of the marvelous work,Bob Beck did.Electric medicine,in my opinion,will have an important place in healing people,in the future.

          When you descide to give the interdermal magnesium a try,please let us know how it works for you.I really think this is one of the better ways to go,with joint problems.

        • Sheila rogers September 8, 2019 at 2:20 pm

          Hi, yes I feel the same way untrustworthy till proven trustworthy, not ideal but it’s what it is today…..I am very body aware and understand the connection between mind and body so I have actually tried a couple of “metaphysical” treatments if you will…..one is called Paradym (that’s how he spells it) it’s a machine that emits the sounds of the chakras designed by an engineer who studied what sounds would mimic the sounds of the chakras and shaped like the pyramid of Giza to concentrate the sounds and you wear headphones close your eyes and go into your own zen zone and I have felt such peace and relaxation after those sessions they last about 20 minutes and I love them……it releases so much sadness and grief both of which I have not only from my bodily limitations but from the emotional ones as well….I have also had a certified Buddhist practitioner work with me using something similar but he didn’t use any equipment it was just him chanting and using aromatherapy I felt safe and protected and was able to work through my body on my own and wow what a great feeling….. a lot of people don’t understand these things working but bio rhythm is a known “thing” and I that’s what working through the chakras does I need to get back to those I felt so much better while I had those sessions regularly and OMG could I sleep at night after those sessions such a peaceful relaxed sleep…….so that’s a positive something that works for me……

        • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 3:49 pm

          Henk – I am looking at a portable Ultrasound machine to help heal the joints / tendons. Probably more economical / convenient than going to PT every day. Any experience with this?

        • joanneb4 September 8, 2019 at 4:00 pm

          I used a shampoo that was called Green Matcha Tea and Apple Blossom. Now I’m frightened about the fluoride in green tea. What are your thoughts? I also took a lot of Epsom salt baths I’m worried about the fluoride and chlorine in the water. I’ve had to flush my eyes out with water several times from getting soap in them for 10 minutes here and there I’m also worried about the fluoride and chlorine in my eyes. What are your thoughts? I also used witch hazel with alcohol and am worried about liver damage. Any thoughts? I’ve drank water from water cooler at work too. I feel like my heart thyroid liver and bladder are messed up from all that. Took an NSAID intravenous in hospital ER Feb, took an aspirin last year, took ibuprofen when first floxed, had topical steroid on scalp, took meds with fluorine and drank water with fluoride used fluoride toothpaste. Had CT scans , x rays and many ultrasounds. Currently taking benzo to help anxiety. Do I have any hope?

          Jo Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 9, 2019 at 2:30 am

          Jo Anne,how did you survive all this? (just kidding ;-).

          Well,I think that most of those things have probably done no real harm to you,although it’s wise to (try to ) avoid everything containing fluoride (use fluoride free toothpaste,and only drink fluoride free drinking water,if possible). Don’t worry about the tiny amount of chlorine in drinking water; it can be vaporated out of the water by heating it.And taking ONE Aspirin is not a medical disaster :-))

          Water in a water cooler can get contaminated,and can,just like tapwater that’s in the fridge for too long,upset your intestines.Might be wise to look for a better water source (low mineral springwater from a good source,bottled in glass is a good choice)

          NSAID’s like Ibuprofen are known to be risky,especially for people with heart problems. That’s why I stick to Paracetamol,exclusively. It doesn’t take away all the pain but lowering the pain level is,most of the time,enough for me.Even of Paracetamole I take the lowest dose I need,and only the max dose (2 x 500mg) before going to bed.During the day,distraction helps,as well.

          Witch Hazel is sold both in alcohol,and in water (alcohol-free).The one,based on alcohol is,in fact,not at all healthy for your skin because the alcohol will make your skin dry out.Use it only topical;ingested,Witch Haze is potentially toxic because the high tannin level.Small tannin quantities,like in red wine,and dark chocolat don’t hurt you,but high quantities,like in that WH water or alcohol probably will,so,DON’T drink that stuff.Not even a little bit. But I doubt that,when using it topical,the amount that might pass the skin will hurt you.

          Benzo’s are bad! You might better look for something else,like CBD oil,Magnesium oil/bath/supplements etc. And,reading your message,I get the impression that those Benzo’s don’t realy work (you sound really over-worried).Benzo’s just sedate your mind,but don’t change the way you think (and that’s probably one of the causes of your anxiety).

          STOP thinking that everything you put in your mouth,or on your skin,is probably poisoning you;IT ISN’T! Most of the things you mentioned won’t,and didn’t harm you,at least,not in a way you should worry about.You could be a bit more critical,in the future,about what to consume,or to put on your skin,and quiting those Benzo’s seems like a good idea to me,but,most of all:STOP WORRYING; thát won’t help! Try to find a healthy balance between living in a sensible way and enjoying life,without all those ineffective worries.

          One thing that might be important for you:if possible,let your intercellar magnesium levels be checked.Anxiety and panic attacks are a possible (for Floxies:probable) symptom of magnesium deficiency.You might be low in vit B,as well.Bot are quite safe to supplement,if not overdone (but:don’t worry ;-)).And some cognitive therapee,to learn how to handle those extreme worries,might help.

        • joanneb4 September 10, 2019 at 6:06 pm


          I am worried about the witch hazel with grain alcohol because I put some on a cotton ball on my forehead but it also spilled all over my hands and I inhaled so much of it. I didn’t rinse it off my forehead and it hurt so bad I used ice cubes all over my face to rub it off and I think it made it worse and inhaled it more and got on lips and made lips swollen so maybe I ingested some of it. I’m worried it damaged my liver and kidneys. It made me super sun sensitive and I’m so dry and itchy now all over. A nurse told me to soak in a bath of baking soda and that made it worse. I feel like my kidneys and liver and thyroid are shot. I can’t digest foods, I am so bloated since all this think I have bacteria overgrowth my mouth and tongue burn and tingle. I have seborrheic dermatitis on scalp. Tried prescription Ketoconazole had a bad reaction. Then head and shoulders. My scalp itches so much and I’m not sure if it’s allergic dermatitis or yeast. I’m always thirsty and dry and tongue dry. I do take reverse osmosis water with calcium added to raise pH with me to work but it’s in stainless steel water bottles with BPA plastic. I think the plastic is bothering me and too much calcium from water with no other minerals. I am low in D and B12. I’m on 2 mg klonopin a day. I don’t know how to get off and not have massive panic attacks every minute. I want off them for sure. I don’t know what soap, shampoo, dish soap, hand soap to use. Not sure if allergic to coconut oil. I’m not sure what to eat either. Any help please. I drink water all day and think it feeds methane bacteria. I have streptococcus overgrowth in vagina. Think it isn’t just there. I tried wearing mascara washed with dove soap got it all in my eyes didn’t rinse with enough water massive eye pain and pressure and blurry vision.

          Jo Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 11, 2019 at 12:38 pm

          My Gooooood!!! Jo Anne,did you have co-writers on this one ?

          I had a hard time,believing all the things you wrote in your last message,two days ago, and than you come up with this one!

          I really don’t know how to answer on all this,don’t even know how to believe all you wrote,this time. Believe me;a professional troll would have a hard time,improving on this message,if he was attempting to confuse people.

          When this is a serious,and true question for help, then you’re the most chaotic person I ever met,and I really don’t feel able to help you,in any way.I’d like to know what others,here,think about the things you write,and I’m waiting for them to react.Sorry.

        • Sheila rogers September 11, 2019 at 2:12 pm

          wow, this sounds horrible…..I don’t mean to be disrespectful JoAnne but you do mention panic attacks, I honestly believe that you are terrified of everything you touch and are having panic attacks because of the stress of the worry from “what if’s” you need to find a doctor that can truly help you with your panic over normal everyday issues…….this is unhealthy to be this worried about things……. witch hazel if used straight will burn like a son of a gun, but it will go away.…..even if you ingested a tiny tiny bit from licking your lips after washing it off your face with ice it’s not going to be enough to kill your liver and kidneys that is over reacting plain and simple, also witch hazel is extremely drying so yes you will have dry itchy skin – use moisturizer of some sort, if you are terrified by that thought use olive oil to moisturize your skin, anytime you get soap in your eyes it will burn and you will have blurry vision for a short time as your eyes clear out the residual that you missed, the fact that you can wear mascara shows your eyes are doing ok that would be the first thing that would be a problem, I use dawn dish detergent it’s so safe and gentle they use it to remove oil off of birds feathers when there is a oil spill in ocean waters, it should be harmless to you ……if this is a true post of true symptoms and worries you need to find a doctor now…..stress can cause dry mouth and too many medications can cause yeast overgrowth but a doctor can determine that too…..have your throat and mouth looked at it seems like you would benefit from an ear, nose and throat doctor as well as a mental professional to deal with the panic attacks and anxiety….this level of anxiety over small physical issues is not normal…….and you can ask your general physician to get you off the klonopin and to check your scalp – you are trying to self diagnose every little ache and pain you get and that’s throwing you into severe anxiety and panic attacks – get a new general physician if you don’t like the one you have, and set up an appointment with an ear, nose, throat and a mental professional equipped to handle panic attacks and anxiety at it’s extreme…….worried if basic water is a problem is extreme…….if you fear BPH or BPA in plastic ditch the plastic that’s an easy answer get a glass bottle or stainless steel thermos these are not hard questions to answer but you have got to calm down

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 11, 2019 at 3:13 pm

          Stainless steel bottles don’t have a plastic layer inside,of BPA or any other material,because there’s absolutely no need for it. In fact;it is the absence of such a layer that makes people choose for a stainless steel bottle like the Klean Kanteen,or the many other trademarks of today.

        • Sheila rogers September 11, 2019 at 4:29 pm

          that’s why I said get a stainless steel thermos, I think she’s worried about the water in a large water bottle thing maybe at work? that she refills her own personal bottles……

        • joanneb4 September 11, 2019 at 6:07 pm

          I wish I was making all this up. I think it is because I did everything wrong after Cipro. Took meds with fluorine, used fluoride toothpaste, took antibiotics, went on and off benzos, had CT scans, ultrasounds with all the gel, X rays, used salicylic acid bar soap and in hand soap and shampoos, took aspirin once, was given NSAID in IV in ER, had steroids in eye drops once, had steroid injected in leg for nerve biopsy, had lidocaine in mouth for endoscopy and mouth rinse and in eyes, had anaesthesia. Used antibacterial soap today, drank out of plastic water cooler jugs and bottles with plastic lids. This has consumed my life so much I can barely function and think. I dont wear mascara I just tried it after 9 months since my eye dr told me to clean my eyes with Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo which killed my eyes and make them so dry. I feel I’m full of fluorine, I’ve eaten bromated flour, bathed in water with chlorine. Feel like my thyroid is shot. I drank water left in water cooler reservoir from June to September in hot sun laden room now have yeast and bacteria overgrowth can barley eat. Chemicals on scalp have left welts so painful can’t lay down on pillow to sleep. It’s a living nightmare. Nothing helps. I’ve been inpatient, partial hospitalization, hospitalized all for mental illness but no one addresses the medical. Doctors have dropped me saying it’s all anxiety but my health problems GIVE me anxiety.

          Jo Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 2:13 am

          Sheila,she actually has,and uses a stainless steel bottle (“I do take reverse osmosis water with calcium added to raise pH with me to work but it’s in stainless steel water bottles with BPA plastic. I think the plastic is bothering me”).

          Buying stainless steel botlles, and nót knowing there’s no BPA in it? While people choose for stainless steel bottles BECAUSE there’s no BPA in it?

          In her next mail she worries about bottles (glass or Stainless steel ?) with plastic lids.Manifacturers like Klean Kanteen don’t use BPA containing plastics in the lids;KK even has several options for BPA free lids.

          “Used antibacterial soap today”?”‘So,why did she use it,knowing that she would be worried,afterwards??? “Took an aspirin last year”.?? “Not sure if allergic to coconut oil.” (I’ve never heard of a coconut allery).

          I drank water left in water cooler reservoir from June to September in hot sun laden room now have yeast and bacteria overgrowth can barley eat.” ?? Drinking such water is plain stupid,but can it give you a yeast and bacteria overgrowth? Don’t think so.”

          Most things seem so far-fetched.What you wrote about the soap is right;I have very sensitive eyes and once even tried baby shampoo,but that,too,burned in my eyes.Very annoying,but after 5-10 minutes the burning feeling is gone,and when there’s ome blurry vision left,this is gona after 1/2-1 hour.But she brings it as if it gave her permanent eye damage.What’s going on,here?

          Only thing I can think of is,that she has a severe magnesium- and/or vit.B defficiency.Magnesium defficiency can cause unrealistic fears (not based on real facts),and panic attacks.nd those fears and panic attacks use a lot of magnesium;it’s a circle,making things worse,in time,untill you break the circle by supplementing magnesium,which I advised her.She has not reacted on that advice,untill now;just a new list of the same.

          “Doctors have dropped me saying it’s all anxiety but my health problems GIVE me anxiety.” Yes,and anxiety,although,most of it based on irrational fears,gives health problems.The circle I mentioned.

          Well,I cann’t help her,and even have problems believing all this.It is too strange,and too much,and,most of it,só far-fetched,and it also suprises me that she does illogical things like buying the SSteel bottles,and then starts worrying about the BPA;why did she buy those expensive ( and BPA-free) bottles,in the first place?

          I did what I could do,to help her: advising Magnesium and B-complex supplementation,and looking for some Cognitive Therapee,to learn how to handle those negative thoughts and irrational fears.

        • joanneb4 September 12, 2019 at 3:50 am

          I use BPA free stainless hydroflasks with reverse osmosis water that has calcium added. Have you guys used antibacterial soaps? I had to use it I went bathroom #2 and then ate lunch had no other soap available. Now hands and feet all swollen. I’ve used soaps before at Wegmans and grocery stores. I believe they are causing me harm but if I have to go I hav to go I don’t know what to do. Is this real damage you think like Cipro. I feel refloxed. I used a prescription antifungal Ketoconazole shampoo for seborrheic dermatitis and got worse too. This is not made up. I wish is was. I feel wrecked with nerve damage and brain damage. My skin is all defatted and I don’t know how to get better. I’m afraid of everything, I tried magnesium it makes me worse.

          Jo Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 8:42 am

          Hi Jo Anne,

          why do you think that the BPA in your stainless steel bottle (“it’s in stainless steel water bottles with BPA plastic.I think the plastic is bothering me.”) bothers you? And now you write that these bottles are “BPA free stainless hydroflasks”.

          Which magnesium did you use,and what are the symptoms that make you think it worsened you? I’m pretty sure that (magnesium) it is one thing you really need,and there are quite a few magnesium supplements (Citrate,Chloride,Sulfate),and besides taking an oral mag.supplement you may use magn.oil,or take a magn.bath,using mag.flakes;two ways of supplementing magnesium orally.This method is very usefull for people with sensitive intestines,and for people who have to treat a large defficiency.

          In fact;I think that finding,and using would make a world of difference for you,physically and mentally.A good reason to give this another try,don’t you think?

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 8:44 am

          Sorry:”two ways of supplementing magnesium orally” must be “two ways of supplementing magnesium interdermal (through the skin)”.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 8:49 am

          Sorry:”Two ways to use magnesium orally” must be” Two ways to use magnesium interdermal”

        • L September 12, 2019 at 9:38 am

          Actually, (don’t ask me why) some stainless bottles have a plastic liner. I know, it’s stupid. I picked one up and luckily unscrewed the cap and looked inside before I bought it. But like you, I have a hard time believing all this. I hate to say that because I know what we all go through. But…..

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 9:54 am

          That’s absurd,indeed;an inner lining,made of plastic,while people choosed for stainless steel bottles,mainly, to get rid of plastic. I didn’t know because,when I did some research on these bottles,the one I liked was a Klean Kanteen,and I found it way too expensive.At that time there wasn’t much choice,at least,not on the dutch market.

          Doesn’t matter,because now she writes that her’s are BPA free,what makes me wonder why she wrote those contained BPA and that bothered her.

          I,too,feel frustrated because on one side,het story is so unreal that it’s hard to believe,but on the other side,if true,she needs help,although I don’t think we are the right persons to help her;she’s so messed up,and even professionals would have a hard time,helping her in a sensible way.I hope she’ll manage to “get back on the road,again”.

          One thing is shure:this is not your average floxed story!

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 11:47 am

          ok got the bottle the difference is the ONE DAILY is not the same as the one you and L were looking at same company different supplement – here’s my label:

          MegaFood Fresh From Farm to Tablet
          Women Over 55 ONE Daily
          Supports Optimal Health & Well Being

          Vit A (beta carotene with carrot) 450mcg
          Vit C (ascorbic acid with orange) 90 mg
          Vit D3 (cholecalciferol w/S. cerevisiae) 40 mcg
          Vit E (d-alpha tocopherol [sunflower] w/organic brown rice) 12 mg
          Vit K (K1) (phytonadione w/cabbage) 80 mcg
          Thiamin (B1) (thiamine HCI w/S. cerevisiae) 1.2 mg
          Riboflavin (B2) (with organic brown rice) 1.3mg
          Niacin (niacinamide w/S. cerevisiae) 16mg
          Vit B6 (pyridoxine HCI w/S. cerevisiae) 3 mg
          Folate (L-5-MTHF w/broccoli) 200 mcg (120 mcgL5-MTHF)
          Vit B12 (methylcobalamin w/S. cerevisiae 4.8 mcg
          Biotin (with organic brown rice) 55 mcg
          Pantothenic Acid (d-calcium pantothenate w/organic brown rice) 5 mg
          iodine (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 80 mcg
          zinc (rice amino acid chelate) 9.5 mg
          selenium (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 55 mcg
          Manganese (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 2.3 mg
          Chromium (GTF) (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 40 mcg
          Molybdenum (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 45 mcg

          Fruit Phenolic Blend (organic whole orange, organic cranberry, organic blueberry) 100 mg

          non GMO Project certified
          Glyphosate residue free
          Tested for 125+ Pesticides and Herbicides
          Certified Gluten Free
          Certified Kosher
          Dairy and Soy Free
          Certified B Corporation

          Both Women Over 55 One Daily and Multi for Women 55+ were formulated to provide post-menopausal foundational support, though they differ in how they do that. We’ve highlighted the differences below:

          Multi for Women 55+
          This is a two tablet per day serving.
          Includes the active or methylated, forms of several of the B vitamins, including B12, folate, riboflavin-5-phosphate, & B6.
          This is an herb-free formula.
          This formula does include choline, a B vitamin choline for healthy memory and cognitive function and a green tea leaf extract.
          This multi will have a higher potency of vitamins and minerals than the one daily. Vitamin K has been excluded for those who need an option for that.

          Women’s Over 55 One Daily
          This is a one tablet per day serving.
          Includes the active, or methylated, forms of several of the B vitamins, including B12, folate, and B6.
          This is an herb-free formula.
          It does not include choline or the green tea leaf extract.
          There is vitamin K in this formula.

          And that is how I made my choice for this one “One Daily”…….I didn’t want the green tea or herbs

        • L September 5, 2019 at 11:19 am

          well you definitely need the mag. we all do. the flqs leech it from the body and it is so necessary for all functions. I would just try different kinds and try to get one without additives which you may be reacting to. I would try l-threonate, orotate or taurate forms. Or do foot soaks with epsom salt. Some swear by magnesium oil spray, although it did nothing for me. As for D I would just again try a reputable one without additives. Are you sure it is the actual vitamin you are reacting to? sometimes we get side effects returning and never really know what caused them. I was so messed up head to toe, but never reacted to any of my supplements, so not sure what to tell you

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 11:53 am

          Thank you I will look into those any brand that you know of that is the most unadulterated of those?

        • L September 5, 2019 at 12:39 pm

          well I generally buy brands I am familiar with. Then check the ingredients. But I don’t seem to have an issue with additives as far as I can tell. Take a brand like Jarrow…it has a good reputation, but still may use say magnesium stearate or something else added. Just read labels. I buy mostly from Vitacost. The prices are SO much cheaper than the stores…don’t have to worry about fake products like on amazon, and shipping is free for $49 and over. Great selection too

        • L September 5, 2019 at 3:45 pm

          well, the ingredients seem ok, but I think the amounts are odd. Like I would much prefer far more vitamin C and way more magnesium and less A. The danger here is getting too much of something if you are already getting it in your diet. To each his own, but I prefer to stay away from a multi and just supplement with what I know I may not be getting enough of . (Supposed to be a reputable line though.)

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 4:54 pm

          I agree – the ingredients seem unbalanced. Need to think about my approach to this a bit more.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 10:46 am

          Sheila,years ago there was an article (I think,it was on the Mercola website) about a research among a very high number (10.000,or even more) of nurses,and their risk for osteoporosis,and guess what: the ones with the HIGHEST risk for osteoporosis were the ones with the HIGHEST consumption of milk products! Not a too small intake of calcium is the cause,but the too small intake of magnesium,Vit.K2 and vit.D,which you need to bring the calcium to where it is needed:in the bones.

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:50 am

          yes milk and dairy products cause acid in the body that is remediated by the body using calcium stores to remedy it – that catch 22 problem, damned if you do and damned if you don’t…….meat leaches calcium from the bones at an even higher rate than dairy as do some other food choices so I am just stuck……. no matter what I do it’s got some negative connotation or side effect…..but I’d rather eat ice cream than meat 🙂 so I don’t know what to do – stuck between a rock and a hard hard place

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:12 am

          My bottle says nothing about green tea nothing. So I think you and L have somehow seen a label that is not my product I wish we could post pics I would post the label next trip to the kitchen I’ll grab my bottle and post all the ingredients and then tell me if you see green tea somewhere that I am missing

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:09 am

          yayaya thank you!! always good to know I made a good choice without really knowing what that was 🙂
          Makes me feel a bit better I don’t know what online labels you and henk were seeing that was so different from the product I have…. kinda weird but thank you for clarifying this one for me…..

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 10:37 am

          Sheila,the link I placed,and the quote (direct copy from their website) should be the same as what’s on the ingredient list. On Amazon I saw complaints about this product,bought from another reseller,where the pills were of a different colour.There might be falsified copies of this product in the market;something is definitaly wrong when the ingredient list on your product differs from the ingrediets,mentioned on their official website.Something is definitely smelling fishy,here,and it’s not the Omega 3 oil ;-))

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 11:02 am Reply

        Sheila writes that the Folate in that supplement is in the L-5 MTHF form. Do I remember well;is this the right form for people with that gene mutation?

  5. Lukasz September 4, 2019 at 11:00 am Reply

    Can anyone recommend a good acupuncturist in Toronto? Preferably one that has treated people with pharmaceutical toxicity?

  6. Fred S September 4, 2019 at 3:42 pm Reply

    I am set to see a ND tomorrow who has 15 years of experience with this specific issue. One quick question for those who have done this before – should I expect him to lay our a detailed plan (supplements, diet, IVs and other treatments)? Not exactly sure what to expect. Appreciate any input you may have. I have never been to a ND before – new terrain for me. Thanks in advance

    • L September 4, 2019 at 4:03 pm Reply

      When I first went to mine, it was also the first time I had seen an ND. I was such a mess mentally and physically I really can’t recall much except him being the FIRST (after 13 MDs) to say “you’re going to be ok. I’m going to help you.” He started me on a Myers (lots of magnesium, b vitamins, selenium, zinc, postassium, vitamin C) , until my test for vitamin C came back. At some point he did go over his “protocol” of different IVs; he started to heal my gut with supplements and enzymes: he told me what to eat…although at that point I had dropped 1/4 of my body weight so it was mainly trying to get calories in me, so he had me add two tablespoons of coconut oil and some almond butter to my smoothies which was the only thing I could take in because of breathing issues. He put me on an iodine supplement and had tests run for my thryroid and a couple other things.

      I was unable to drive at that point and needed help walking, so someone drove me and she asked a lot of questions and wrote down his answers for me. He also added alpha lipoic acid and a probiotic. He told me I should come in twice a week (at one point I was actually going in three times a week for IVs) And he told me which IVs he wanted me to get. For the very first visit I was really such a mess…the walking dead…I don’t think he wanted to overwhelm me.

      • Fred S September 4, 2019 at 4:14 pm Reply

        Thanks, L. Can the Myers be done without a test or do I need to do a test first? What type of tests will he have me take? The reason I ask is that I have a bunch of blood work recently done for everything under the sun as my conventional doctor tried to find the reason for my recent symptoms (of course ignoring the fact that I finished taking Cipro 3 weeks ago and saying that has nothing to do with it).

        • L September 4, 2019 at 4:31 pm

          No test necessary because the amount of Vitamin is much lower than if you did a straight C IV. It also is great because it (Myers) contains so much of what floxies are really needing. The only IV requiring a blood test (that I am aware of ) is the C. It is the G6PD. He may suggest ozone therapy as well as IVs if he offers that. Let us know how it goes (and by the way MANY tests that MDs do come back negative because as Dr Todd Plumb (also floxed) notes, the damage is functional, not structural….

        • Fred S September 4, 2019 at 4:35 pm

          Thank you, L. Very, very helpful. Will let you know how it goes.

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 11:14 am

          Interesting session with the ND – he definitely seems to understand and believe the foxing issue. He basically said recovery is a function of age (younger people recover faster from this) and how quickly you address it. He looked at my bloodwork and supplements and thought the were ok. He suggested an IV (modified Myers) – I asked him to send me the details of the “cocktail” which he will do. Also, mentioned diet needs to be low inflammation (Mediterranean) which will help blood flow to the joints. The thing that bothered me is that he was not the take charge kind of doctor. I expected a clear plan with certain supplements and foods – I felt he talked in generalities with no clear treatment plan. Am I expecting too much or should I move on? My overall condition has improved in the 3 weeks post floxing. I am left with mostly the joint pain (which come and goes and limits exercise), the sleep issue (which seems to be bit better with 20 mg of cbd) and dry eyes/mouth. I am able to work. Maybe he thinks it is not a serious enough issue to warrant more aggressive approaches – not sure. Would appreciate any thoughts on what level of engagement I should expect.

        • L September 5, 2019 at 11:26 am

          well I do like that he suggested Myers, although not sure what a “modified” myers would be. My advise would be go with your gut. Or perhaps do the IV and see if you can get more info out of him. Did he say anything about gut issues? I mean the Mediterranean diet is fine, but most of us have damaged microbiome and need probiotics and perhaps digestive enzymes.

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 11:50 am

          He did not mention gut issues – he seemed ok with the 50B probiotic I was taking. I will give the IV a try (once he tells me the price and what is in it). Overall it was a bit disappointing – I expected more engagement.

        • L September 5, 2019 at 12:36 pm

          yeah, that’s too bad. But when I went to first see mine I was damaged head to toe. I could barely see, barely breathe, barely walk…only 100 lbs (from 138) in pain, and just struggling to live—so he had a LOT to work with! You may be right that this ND just thinks your damage is not too bad. Maybe worth a second try though

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 2:59 pm

          L – this is what he told me. What do you think?

          “The contents of the initial customized blend IV will be B comp, Glutathione, Mg and Vitamin C . I do not release specific protocols as they are proprietary to my institute. Cost of a non bundled IV will be $250.00 each. As the protocol continues I increase some doses and remove others that I have found to be helpful for patients in the last 15 years for Floxed patients.
          If in the event as I stated you commit to 6 or more I can lower that price down to $225.00 each. The wholesale pharmacy vendor lowers the price and I forward that price to you. “

        • L September 5, 2019 at 4:02 pm

          well I would start off by saying that while I think glutathione helped me a lot (I got a “push”…like an injection full of it with every IV except h2o2. So basically I got about 80 of them…there have been some on this site that said they had a bad reaction to glutathione. It is not typically found in a myers. This is what is usually in a myers: Magnesium chloride hexahydrate 20% (magnesium)Calcium gluconate 10% (calcium)Hydroxocobalamin 1,000 mcg/mL (B12)Pyridoxine hydrochloride 100 mg/mL (B6)Dexpanthenol 250 mg/mL (B5)B complex 100 (B complex)Vitamin C 2 …there may be some variations on that.

          The price seems high. MY MD internist does IVs and his were always higher than my ND, and even his Myers is $105 (50 minutes.) Granted prices vary across the country, but that seems steep for a myers. What city are you in again?

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 4:51 pm

          Thanks. L. I am not sold on the Glutathione. I mentioned this to him and he said he starts low and slowly moves up to be safe. I will ask him a few questions I agree that $250 seems high. I am in the Philadelphia area where prices are generally not crazy compared to NY or LA. Is this something I can shop around on? Not sure how transparent they will be. Maybe I can call a few NDs and get their prices.

        • L September 5, 2019 at 5:01 pm

          yeah, I just did a quick search and there are a lot of clinics offering IVs. I would call around …maybe 3 or 4 and see if your doctor is in the ballpark

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 5:23 pm

          Thanks, L. I searched on “IV therapy” and few names came up. Will make a few calls.

        • Fred S September 6, 2019 at 3:54 pm

          Well – I decided to look for another ND and spoke with her on the phone. Seemed to immediately get it and has treated similar issues before. She asked me about my symptoms and after hearing the list she was convinced it was FQ related and mentioned she has seen an uptick in these cases. I honestly felt she (Dr. Staid) cared and wanted the opportunity to make me healthy. The ND I saw yesterday was very impersonal, a bit condescending. I felt like a number. Will give her a try next week. Here is her link – please let me know your thoughts, https://www.fullspectrumim.com/

        • L September 6, 2019 at 9:10 pm

          Yes! Looks great. And Dr Staid is also an internist. If you look online you will also find great reviews of her from rate mds and vitals. Looks like a good choice. An MD who switches to integrative medicine “gets it.” Let us know how it goes…

        • Fred S September 7, 2019 at 5:01 am

          Thanks, L. That is how I felt. Her “can do” attitude and enthusiasm to help me was reassuring. I mentioned the apathy / denial I have received from the conventional medical community and she understood it having been part of it at one point. She readily admits that many are uninformed or lazy (or both) and just want write a prescription or ask for a test and move you along. This was part of her motivation to practice functional medicine. Will let you know how it goes.

  7. 63chevyii September 5, 2019 at 5:46 pm Reply

    I’ve spent a bunch of time thinking about what’s happened to me health-wise since being floxed.

    Exhaustion, body aches and joint pain
    Torn labrum (right shoulder).
    Marked increase in anxiety levels
    Increase with tinnitus and hearing issues
    Extreme DOMS post exercise
    Torn bicep tendon
    Nerve pain on face (mild tingling or burning sensation)
    IBS-like symptoms
    Right knee pain making it difficult to walk at times, occasional left achilles tendon pain
    Random “buzzing” or vibration sensation in quads.

    The scary thing is things are getting worse still …

    More details are posted here, under my week 13 update:

    • L September 5, 2019 at 6:28 pm Reply

      yeah, sadly things get worse before they get better. Among my dozens of side effects I had knee pain, that eventually resulted in torn meniscus in both knees. (prolozone injections to the rescue!!!) I had everything you listed and more. My gut was so destroyed I lost 1/4 of my body weight and it took two years to get it back. I went through a LOT of probiotics, dgl licorice, HCL betaine, digestive enzymes….but pretty back to normal now.

      but the main reason I wanted to respond was a comment I noticed on your blog to the effect of “how to explain this all to the doctor” Not sure if you have already gone, but every time I see a new doctor (even now at 4 1/2 years out) I always take the top two “dear doctor” letters (plumb and de jong) listed here. They give a good, more medical/scientific explanation of what has happened. https://floxiehope.com/tag/dear-doctor-letter/

      • 63chevyii September 5, 2019 at 6:49 pm Reply

        Thanks so much L … those letters are great!

        • L September 5, 2019 at 7:46 pm

          You’re welcome. (Thank Lisa for posting them) I like that they speak in doctor-eze and it give more credibility since so many docs just don’t believe us (I avoid those kind these days)

    • Fred S September 6, 2019 at 4:41 am Reply

      I am in the same boat. I have been cycling for 30 years with no tendon issues and after taking Cipro 3 weeks ago I could not cycle more than 15 minutes due to tendon pain in my ankles. It is very odd in that the joint pain comes in waves at times – I felt it in my feet and ankles for a while and it went away. Yesterday I felt it in my wrists and arms and seems to have gone away today to some degree. I am pretty much limited to walking and swimming since I am scared to do more. I actually feel lucky I can do that based on what I have seen. I am attacking it with nutrition (to minimize inflammation) and going slow until the tendons go through a rebuild cycle which takes many, many months (maybe a year). I think stressing tendons with weights and other activity is dangerous at this point. My insomnia has improved with CBD oil – I am taking 20 mg and it knocks me out at night and I am sleeping better. I hope to ween myself off this in a few months. Also, there is a doctor in LA I have read about that specializes in this area (https://www.regenerativemedicinela.com/) which I am thinking about. It is expensive and you have commit to a 10 day stay in LA. I have talked to them and they are very, very familiar with this issue (the doctor went though this himself).

      • L September 6, 2019 at 9:25 am Reply

        You are very wise to take it slow as far as tendons and exercise. As for the LA place I have actually spoken to Dr Ghalili on the phone. I talked to him very early on in switching his practice to regenerative healing. I will say he seems genuinely concerned, and he is not one of these places just out to make a buck. On the plus side, he really did help heal himself after a floxing. However, in my opinion, he was not severely damaged body-wide. I think he probably does have a good understanding in how to help heal somewhere with mobility or join-type issues (meniscus, tendon, etc) I am not so sure he is (perhaps he is now) aware of the extreme damage it can do to systems, organs, the brain, etc.) I am aware of one person who was floxed who went to see him and had a bit of recovery; then went back a second time and now is able to walk normally and without pain, whereas before he could not. So it was a definite success for him. Not sure his stay was that long, at least the first time. He does literally credit Dr G with getting him back on his feet. So if those are the types of issues you are talking about, It sounds like it is worth it.

  8. Fred S September 7, 2019 at 6:25 am Reply

    General question – does anyone use or had success with Collagen to improve tendons, skin, nails? If so, what type do you use? Thanks in advance

  9. Fred S September 8, 2019 at 6:07 am Reply

    Wanted to thank everyone for the CBD suggestion for sleep – it really did work. Not quite back to pre-poisoning levels but almost 9 hours of sleep with some interruption. Makes a big difference!

    • Don M September 8, 2019 at 7:58 am Reply

      Yes ……CBD does have many benefits. The problem with it is getting the right dose. Over dosing (though said to be not harmful) is just wasting your money. All the products on the market seem to indicate the number of mg in the bottle. One must find a chart to see how many mg are in one dropper. Then through a bit of trial and error one must find the right amount that works for you. Last is cost. It is a very expensive potion for the amount one gets. If it works it may be worth the cost. One online seller that has incentive programs to help with the cost is: https://www.thecbdistillery.com/ They also list the number of mg of CBD oil in each dropper right on the label of the bottle. The CBDistillery also has a lot of information available on it’s web site.

      • Don M September 8, 2019 at 8:07 am Reply

        CBD dosing information and ideas from the CBDistellary web site. https://www.thecbdistillery.com/microdosing-cbd/

      • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 8:10 am Reply

        Thanks again, Don. I have been using local sources for now to see if it works. I already placed an order at CBD Distillery – like the prices and shipping is free if over $100. I seem to have honed in on 20 mg / CBD at bedtime only but will try to ween myself off of it over a few months. How are you using it? Do you use throughout the day with a kicker at night?

        • Don M September 11, 2019 at 8:23 am

          I was using a CBD oil from a California supplier but it was “very” expensive. When I found the CBDistillery I fund that I could cut from 30 to 50% off the cost. I have chosen to use CBDistillery’s CBD oil 1000. The bottle says that each dropper full contains 33 mg of CBD oil. Other than the help with anxiety it seems that I must take quite a bit of the stuff to be getting other results. I am now trying to follow their recommendations of regular daily use to build up the stuff in my system. I am using one dropper (33 mg) in the morning and another dropper (33 mg) at bed time. It does seem to be helping with my insomnia problem a little. Guess we hill have to wait and see over the long haul just how much benefit I am getting for my buck. Their recommendations are from 5 to 60 mg daily. I have read that in some testing up to 600 mg has been used. If that is the case the 5 to 60 mg seems to be a very safe daily dose.

  10. Fred S September 8, 2019 at 7:03 am Reply

    Any thoughts on this to treat tendon pain ? My wife brought some back from China recently. It seems it is used in Europe. Not sure if topical usage would cause a bad reaction. Thanks https://www.parafarmacia-online.com/en/flogoprofen-50-mg-g-gel-topico-100-g.

    • L September 8, 2019 at 8:55 am Reply

      It’s an NSAID. I would not use it personally.

      • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 9:07 am Reply

        Thanks, L. Any topicals that work for you? Mag oil seems to help a bit.

        • L September 8, 2019 at 9:12 am

          Not really. I have had limited success with arnica cream, depending on the issue. There are supposed to be CBD creams that help but I tried a couple and they did nothing for me. In all fairness though, I really didn’t know what to look for in that regard. Certain light therapies (eg red light therapy) are also supposed to help, but I cannot tell you about any of the little home machines that are available. Your ND/ integrative MD might be able to shed some light on that. (no pun intended)

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 8, 2019 at 10:00 am Reply

        All NSAID’s are dangerous for the heart.I only use Paracetamol,and a magnetic pulser.You can easilly build one,yourself;just need an old electronic flash with some power and a copper coil like the Visaton 5032.And an electric cable to connect both. How to make one is well described at:


        After having had much help from this homebuild device,I eventually bought the professionally build one from Sota (endorsed by Bob Beck).I’d build a Blood Purifier as well(info on the Beck website);this also worked great for me,and later on I bought the Silver Pulser from Sota (a Blood Purifier and Silver Pulser,combined;another invention of Bob Beck).My advice:first build both devices yourself;it’s cheap ($ 30-40 ,each);later on you can always by the devices from Sota;they’re quite expensive but professionally build.

        The Silver Pulser is used for both pulsing the blood (disabling bacteria,virusses,fungi and other pathogens),and producing Colloïdal Silver.The Magnetic Pulser is used to disabling those critters in deeper tissue,and to treat pain in joints and musles.Today,many clinics use this same technique to treat arthritis,and more.It’s an officially recognised treatment.

        My only complaint is about the quality of the power adapters that come with the Sota devices;I’ve replaced those with better ones (still not understand that Sota sells those expensive quality devices with such low quality power adapters;good ones are hardly more expensive).

      • joanneb4 September 8, 2019 at 10:01 am Reply

        Can we use aloe Vera products since they have natural salicylates or shampoos with willow bark another plant with natural salicylate?

        Jo Anne

        • L September 8, 2019 at 10:43 am

          I don’t see why not. In fact, when I was having the pelvic pressure and pain that I think was interstitial cystitis I used aloe vera caps. I also use aloe vera for assorted things (bug bites). Never any issue with it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 8, 2019 at 11:54 am

          I agree with L.;I think that those products are safe,used on the skin.I’ve never read anything to the contrary. Like Don writes,using it on large surfaces might have some risk,but the risk with NSAID’s like Ibuprofen,or Flogoprofen (never heard of that one ) is much more risky because the NSAID group in itself is very risky,in particular fot hte heart.There are specialists that claim,this painkiller group should be banned because of the high risk.

          First of all I should use magnesium oil,magnesium bath,or,if no bath available,magnesium soaked towels and feet bath with a magnesium solution (bittersalt/magn.sulfate,or magnesium chloride (Zechsal)). Better treat the cause than kill the pain.And remember;this pain isn’t just a curse;it also prevents you from putting too much force on those damaged tendons and joints;that’s the main reason why evolution created pain,after all.

        • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 12:05 pm

          Thanks, Henk. The impacted tendons do feel better after I apply the liquid mag. Not sure if placebo or truly addressing the root cause. Have you seen any improvement in the tendons over time? At this point I can walk 4-5 km before I feel pain (hopefully it gets better)

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 8, 2019 at 12:28 pm

          Yes,I was floxed in sept.2016,and some weeks later I had some terrible weeks,with first my left,and after that,my right foot Archillea tendon hurt like hell.The Magn.Pulser lessened the pain,and might have shortened the time this problem lasted but during these weeks I could hardly walk.Later on I had those same problems with other tendons as well,mainly in my knees and shoulders.Sometimes the pain comes back,but never so severe as it was,in the beginning.

          I do use magnesium oil,sometimes,but untill now only to level up my magnesium.I dislike the feeling of this “oil” on my skin,like I disliked the feeling of sunprotection in times I used it,or a sticky,sweaty skin when there’s hot weather.Most of the time I trust on my magn. supplements and my magnetic pulser.I seldom use Paracetamol (the only painkiller I use,since years).

        • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 3:53 pm

          (Sorry – posting again in the right place) Henk – I am looking at a portable Ultrasound machine to help heal the joints / tendons. Probably more economical / convenient than going to PT every day. Any experience with this?

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 9, 2019 at 12:46 am

          Hi Fred,I’m sorry;I have no experience with ultrasound devices.You might do a search on that particular device,and try to find some testimonials,but don’t forget that many of them are fake,and I don’t know of any producer that publishes negative testimonials on their website as well (hardly any of MY negative testimonials,anyway ;-)) Can you tell me/us which device you have in mind? Then,if I have enough time,I might do some (re)search for you on what users think about that device;useless to spend a lot of money on something that doesn’t work.

          That’s why I advice interested people to first build the Bob Beck devices,themselves,and use them for a while,like I did.The magnetic pulser is an easy one,not much more than modifying an electronic flash unit.The Blood Purifier/Silver Pulser is a bit more complicated;you’ll need a basic knowledge of electronics.But many people know somebody who an help building.The info to build those two devices,complete with the (simple) diagram for the Blood Purifier can be found on the bobbeck website.

        • Fred S September 9, 2019 at 4:42 am

          Henk – thanks. Here is what I am looking at – seems ok. https://www.lgmedsupply.com/pselgulunwic.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 9, 2019 at 5:00 am

          Hi Fred,I can hardly find anything about info about this device,except from their own website.Already explained why I distrust testimonials on the producer website,but I didn’t find any other sources.The price seems okay (the Sota devices are much more expensive).Might you buy this device that,please let me/us know if it works for you;I’m quite interested.

        • Fred S September 9, 2019 at 3:36 pm

          Thanks, Henk. I will try to research it a bit more. If I buy I will give you a review.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 10, 2019 at 1:06 am

          Thanks,Fred,and when you find interesting info about this device,could you please,place the link here,on FloxieHope?

        • Fred S September 10, 2019 at 4:02 pm

          Hi Henk, can you tell me a bit more about the mag pulser?. I found site that sells this and a few others. https://www.sota.com/sota-products.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 11, 2019 at 3:21 am

          Hi Fred,that’s the Sota website.At a presentation by Bob Beck,about his protocol,a visitor,Russ Torlage,showed Bob the devices he made for his wife because of her enduring illness,which forced her to stop working and liquidate her busyness.Russ found out about Bob Beck and his protocol,and,based on the diagrams from Bob built the devices.Bob Beck was impressed by the high quality builds that he endorsed them and approved building and selling those in a commercial way.That’s how the Sota company came on the market.

          Remember:the goal,for Bob Beck,was to develope a device that should be simple to build,but in the meantime very effective,so,everybody could build them ,maybe with a bit of help from a handy friend or neighbor.Russ Torlage,like Bob Beck,had a electrotechnical education,and had the knowledge to make some improvements to the original diagrams which were not really neccesary but made the devices more handy and easy to use (f.e. a timer,and the use of just one 9.volt block battery instead of three (he uses a tripler,which makes the needed 27 volt out of one 9 volt source;this brings down the size and weight of the device). Russ Torlage is the only person who’s devices were endorsed by Bob Beck,and the eventually became good friends.

          You can find every bit of information about Bob Beck and his protocol,including the electronic diagrams and directions on how to build them,ánd lots of information about Bob,and his life and works,here,including everything you want to know about the Magnetic Pulser (and how to build one,yourself,for cheap :-)) :


          Nice detail:as soon as he realized that the Blood Purifier (now called Silver Pulser,for political reasons) did a good job,neutralizing pathogens in the blood but couldn’t reach the critters which hided in the lymp system and other organs and deepr tissues,he looked for a way to create the same electric pulses in those places.he knew this could be done by magnetic pulses because everywhere in the body there are metals (iron,copper,zinc etc).To create a powerfull magnetic pulse he used a suited copper coil,and a an electronic flash unit (the one,photographers us,and which you find in almost every mobile phone,today).

          The low voltage electronic flash unit was,in fact,his first of many inventions,in 1948 (US Pat. #2,498,640).He sold the patent in 1950 for $ 500,which payed for his last trimester.Seemed like a lot of money for him,at the time,but little could he know about his photo flash unit becomming so popular.

  11. Don M September 8, 2019 at 7:43 am Reply

    Read the article carefully. It discusses having problems with salicylates. Aspirin is a salicylate. Also it says not to use it more than 7 days or over large areas. Read the article carefully and be aware of all the aspects of the product. This is what we were deprived of by the medical establishment when it came to Fluoroquinolones.

    • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 8:03 am Reply

      Thanks, Don

  12. Fred S September 9, 2019 at 5:54 am Reply

    General question – I noticed some “numbness” or reduced sensitivity in my right foot (large toe) – I am sure is related to Cipro nervous system damage. Seems to not be a life altering issue – more annoying than anything. Anyone else experience this? Does it eventually go away? is it worth going to a neurologist (who will deny Cipro could do this)? Thanks in advance.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 9, 2019 at 6:10 am Reply

      Hi Fred,you’re right on that.I had nerve damage from a double AB course (Amoxicillin and Metronidazole,in 2004),and lost a lot of sensitivity in my upper back,lower legs and feet,and some parts of my arms.The Cipro,in 2016,didn’t make things better.I have the impression that,since 2004,I got a bit of my sensitivity back,here and there,and Cipro didn’t take it all back away.Nerves do,sometimes,heal,but very,very slowely,if,ever.

    • L September 9, 2019 at 7:58 am Reply

      Everyone is different, so it’s hard to tell. All of my toes were/are numb 4 1/2 years out. It’s annoying but I can live with it. It was the least of my side effects. And at one point the numbness had gone all the way up to my calves, so I am glad it is just the toes. Unfortunately it’s a constant reminder…like a souvenir from a really bad trip. I used to love foot massages, but they just don’t do much for me anymore. Also when I am swimming it feels weird. I think it is maybe a little better because I had to initially actually look at my feet and place my sandals on them. Now I can get them on after a big of wiggling. I have always thought that perhaps since the distance to the toes is the furthest from the brain, that may have something to do with their demise. I had a LOT of nerve damage, and most of it has gone. But again, don’t go by me. Yours may well go away.

      • Fred S September 9, 2019 at 3:42 pm Reply

        Henk / L, thank you. I will probably wait and see what happens. I think going to neurologist will be a waste of time and $. I am so disappointed with conventional medicine. They are good at treating obvious things – like a broken arm. They fall down on system wide, functional issues like these (no creativity nor the desire to really help). The just want to prescribe a drug or order a test and move you along the assembly line.

        • L September 9, 2019 at 4:19 pm

          Good call. Of all the really uninformed, unhelpful, skeptical doctors I saw the neurologist (who came recommended from one of the few docs that was at least partially aware) was the WORST. (several others on the site had similar experiences with their neurologist) Just total tunnel vision. Then when I later read his office notes he had put down I was delusional and hysterical (this was during the worst where my movement and breathing was impaired, was in extreme pain, could barely see a few feet ahead of me and had over 30 side effects…and had lost 1/4 of my body weight.) He also wrote down that I had “pseudo medical knowledge.” If he had just bothered to use the computer sitting a foot from him, he could have corroborated everything I said. Oh—and here’s the real killer…He was not even aware that flqs can cause permanent nerve damage (“nonsense!”) , and that was a warning that had been out for several years.

        • Fred S September 9, 2019 at 6:29 pm

          Thanks, L. I realize it may not change anything but I am seriously considering writing a detailed letter of my ordeal to the CEO and Chief Medical Officer of the Healthcare Organization I have been going to. The purpose would be to point out 1) how the liberal use Cipro and its kind has real consequences to people’s lives and 2) the lack of acknowledgement and help from their doctors after the fact. I will include the doctor’s letters and reference the various groups and stories. I am also considering involving some of the local News teams (the problem solvers) and encourage a full story on this subject. I realize this may “fire-bombing” but I think people need to be woken up.

        • L September 9, 2019 at 7:15 pm

          I encourage you to do so. I probably couldn’t even come up with a figure for the number of letters I have written. Close to 100 I would guess. I wrote every doctor who dismissed me and attached studies, warnings, etc. I have written to magazines (I like to think I had something to do with Consumer Reports finally doing a piece on FLQ). I have written to public officials; news shows; celebrities with a “voice” (Oprah for one); the surgeon general; other magazines esp ones with a lot of drug ads—and then I have canceled them for having so many drug ads. I have written to nonprofits, especially those dealing with health issues. You name it! Go for it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 10, 2019 at 1:16 am

          I have to correct you,here,Fred.You write “They fall down on system wide, functional issues like these”. This should be”They CAUSE functional issues like these”.

          It’s getting clearer by the day that much of all medical misery is caused by their “science based medicine” and by the chemicals of their compagnions in crime,the chemical industry.We eat,drink and breathe chemicals 24/7,every day of the week,month,year,and besides of a few,none of these substances are ever tested for health risks.And for the “medicines”those are tested,but too often those data are manipulated and cherrypicked to make a “medicine” look more effective,and safe.

        • Fred S September 10, 2019 at 4:26 am

          Henk – Thank you, I fully agree

  13. A.Coleman September 13, 2019 at 7:39 am Reply

    So, I have really been doing well. I have even had a few days that I was more or less normal and the other days the symptoms I have been dealing with have all been steadily getting better. Insomnia is still the only major issue I face along with some lingering head pressure / headaches.

    I am coming up on my 4 year floxiversary in a few weeks and I was thinking that maybe I would be able to start thinking of myself as well; though I don’t intend to write a recovery story until I am 6 months well.

    Then out of the blue I started experiencing bouts of anxiety. These started about a week ago. First at night and now during the day too; but not the last few nights. It just comes and goes staying around for 6 or so hours then fading for an unknown time.

    I know that time will probably heal the anxiety like with all FQ issues; but with this one issue standing between me and full health it is really a kick in the pants. My real question is how long?

    I have a family history of depression with both my father and maternal grandmother being diagnosed manic depressives. During a stressful period of my life about 10 years ago I was on an anti-depressant for about 6 years with no noticeable side effects. I have been off for about 6 years and the only issue was tapering off. I have already restarted that prescription just today and hopefully with the relatively mild anxiety I am experiencing that will get me to a good place along with my better health.

    Looking for any other cognitive behavioral approaches I can take to help me deal with this.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 13, 2019 at 8:05 am Reply

      A.Coleman,èverybody is a bit nervous,the last few days before a floxiversary ;-))

      Well,I hope this is just one of those little relapses that come and go,most of the time in a few days.Just don’t panic,and that anxiety will probably be shortlived. Not feeding it with worries wiil help it to fade away.I hope,you’re allright in time to celebrate your 4th floxiversary in good health!

    • L September 13, 2019 at 9:31 am Reply

      Sorry about the setback, but I don’t think an antidepressant is the answer. Like you, I had depression in family members, and I myself was on antidepressants for decades. Then I read that they were shown to be no better than a placebo in studies, and that turmeric (with 95% curcuminoids) was as effective as Prozac, I decided to go off them. (I found out the hard way that you need to wean off.) Your body is already trying to fix itself from the flq damage and antidepressants will only add to the burden. Also some antidepressants contain fluoride, which should be avoided. Here is a piece from Dr Mercola on why they should be avoided, with some suggestions at the end. https://healthimpactnews.com/2011/antidepressant-drugs-do-not-work-and-they-have-serious-side-effects/

    • L September 13, 2019 at 4:30 pm Reply

      I haven’t but just a few days ago a friend with shoulder issues said she is getting it and it seems to help her. I was going to look into it.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 2:50 am Reply

      Fred,there’s red light and red light. This device emits 660 nM,and does hardly reach the deeper skin layers. To treat depper tissue,like tendons and muscles,you’ll need a higher frequenty Near Infrared “Light wavelengths from 680nm to 880nm can pass through skin and muscle tissue” So;this device is suited to treat the wrincles of your skin.In fact;that webpage gives me the creeps;the photo of that woman with a white doctor’s coat,and the many medical claims (where is the science?). “Medical grade components”???? “THE BRAND RECOMMENDED BY TODAY’S LEADING DOCTORS” That must be the “doc” from the photo (probably a mmodel) ??

      They shout ” FDA cleared medical device,under K-100213″ ,all over the place but that just means that the FDA sees no harm in the thing:

      “We have reviewed your Section 5 1 0(k) premarket notification of intent to market the devicereferenced above and have determined the device is substantially equivalent (for the indicationsfor use stated in the enclosure) to legally marketed predicate devices marketed in interstatecommerce prior to May 28, 1976, the enactment date of the Medical Device Amendments, or todevices that have been reclassified in accordance with the provisions of the Federal Food, Drug,and Cosmetic Act (Act) that do not require approval of a premarket approval application(PMA). You may, therefore, market the device, subject to the general controls provisions of theAct. FDA cleared medical device, under K-100213FDA cleared medical device, under K-100213”

      “3000 mW input of the proven and therapeutic 660nm red light wavelength.” Well,this tells you that the power INPUT of the led is 3 watt,but it doesn’t tell you how much of that power is emitted in the form of Near Infrared light.

      In short: this smells fishy,all over.You might do yourself a favor and read the critical reviews on that page (362 critical,1209 satisfied;that’s a bad score!).This device is NOT handy (it should be in a pad form,like the Sota Lightworks), very expensive (for what you get),and there is NO warranty.(On the page:”Please contact the seller directly for warranty information for this product. You may also be able to find warranty information on the manufacturer’s website.” Well,people who’s device got broke,most of them in days or weeks,didn’t see any money back,and after the first mail the seller just stopped reacting to further mails.$200,and NO warranty!

      Here’s an interesting article about lightning technics.It shows that the best source for Near Infrared light is….the sun! Next best source is an oldfashoned filament lamps (yes,the incandescent lamps, now almost forbidden and replaced by very unhealth flickering devices,that,some of them,emit dangerous levels of UV,as well).:


      • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 5:09 am Reply

        Thanks, Henk. Looking at the Sota products, I sense they are more reputable than some others I have seen. Sota has been around for a while and have a wide selection of products. What is your view of light therapy vs the magnetic pulser for stimulating tendon healing / bloodflow? Thanks in advance.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 6:06 am

          Hi Fred,I (still :-(( don’t own a Sota Lightworks,so I can’t compare both the Lightworks and the Sota Magnetic Pulser.I do have really good experiences with the MP. It helped me to overcome severe carb intolerece (with both hyper- and hypoglycemia).Twice,first time in 2007,after an absurd AB corce with both Amoxicillin and Metronidazole (2004),and later on,in 2016,when I got floxed.In 2007,it also helped me to get rid of loose stools,another adverse reaction since the AB course in 2004,in TWO weeks,while I hardly had any improvements,using many different probiotics and other remedies.Only Colloidal Silver gave a small,but noticabel improvement.

          I also used it on my Archlllea tendons,some weeks after being floxed,and on numerous other ocassions.Magnetic pulsing is used in many therepeutic centra and clinics,now,to treat arthritis.I use it on painfull tendons and joints,and it helps in reducing the pain,the effect noticable in 1/2-1 hour,most of the time.

          But when you really want to know what magn.pulsing can do for you,you’d better build a pulser,yourself (second hand photo flashlight and a suitable coil will cost you ca. $ 30-40; the right (2,5 mm2 cable and the needed recharcheable batteries another few $’s))

          These homebuild devices work as good as the expensive Sota devices.The Sota devices are quite a bit more handy in use,and more durable and of high quality,but this comes at a price.I still use my homebuild MP regularly,in my bedroom because it works off-grid,and I don’t need to carry around my Sota MP. Only negative of the homebuild unit: you have to push the test button of the flash unit for every pulse,after the recharge of the capacitor (flash units have a little “flash ready” light,to indicate the capacitor is fully charched).

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 6:32 am

          About my homebuild magnetic pulser: I use Vivitar 2800 flashlights,and buy them secondhand for ca. € 5 – €8. This one has enough power,and the way it’s built makes it easy to open,and lead a cable to the inside to connect (the needed hole is already there;no need to drill one).The coil I use is a Visaton 5032 copper coil (2,2 mH,1,3 mm2 ). You need to use a cable that’s thicker than the wire of the coil,otherwise much of the flash power will be turned into heat,in the cable,because of the higher resistance of the cable,compared to the resistance of the coil.That’s why I use a 2 x 2,5 mm2 (double wired) power cord.

      • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 5:48 am Reply

        Henk – another interesting site. Seems they recommend a device with wavelengths in the 800-850nm range and greater than 50mW/cm² power density for arthritis (not sure tendons are impacted)

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 6:18 am

          Fred,thanks for the link.It’s what I explained,before,and what makes the Sota Light works (850nm and approximately 455 milliwatts (3 visible Red light leds,included) a YES,and the Tendlite a big,fat NO.The Sota MP costs twice as much,but I wouldn’t doubt a second and go for the Lightworks ( hope to buy that one,soon,to make my Sota device collection complete :-)) Have a nice weekend!

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 3:02 am Reply

      This is how a description of such a device should be.You want to know the light frequenty,and the OUTPUT power (notice,the Sota Lightworks N-IR leds emit 850 nm,a probably more (medical)usefull frequenty,as far as I found in web available info).

      “Near Infrared LEDs: Features 57 high-intensity Near Infrared invisible LED lights with a wavelength of 850 nanometers (nm) (+/- 10 nm) plus 3 visible Red LED lights with a light output of approximately 455 milliwatts (mW)*.

      *Frequency Tolerance: +/- 1 Hz. (Light Output measured using a Newport Optical 1830-C Light Meter.) ”


  14. Fred S September 14, 2019 at 6:30 am Reply

    Had a good meeting with a new Functional medicine doctor. Put on a supplement plan to address the Cipro tox issues and also put me on a very strict diet for 6 weeks to reduce inflammation (but may add back as needed). Organic vegetables, fruits and antibiotic free meat and eggs. No caffeine, no dairy no grains. Very tough for me – I love my Ezekiel bread and coffee in the morning. It is probably good for me (floxed or not) but certainly takes some joy out of life. Anyone else have to make this switch?

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 6:36 am Reply

      Funny: you go to a Functional Medicine doc,who tells you exactly what most health conscious people already know ;-))

    • L September 14, 2019 at 9:13 am Reply

      Yes, and it sounds just right. (I missed my Killer Dave bread.) I cut out dairy (didn’t each much to begin with), soy, anything gmo or heavily processed and only had organic fruit and veg (some are not too bad nonorganic. EWG puts out a good list). Cut out caffeine, alcohol, chocolate….pretty much everything I like. But for months I was having such horrific breathing problems that I couldn’t really chew anyhow. IT was really eat or chew—those were my choices, so I lived on smoothies with fruit, spinach or another veg, bananas, coconut oil, almond butter and almond milk for a long time. Then I added back in the organic meats. (not in the smoothies!)

      Eventually I was able to add back chocolate, coffee, wine (occasional scotch 🙂 ) When I have dairy it is usually goats milk cheese. I still try to avoid gluten, because I have read it’s not great for anyone but I do buy organic sour dough, which if made the old fashioned way, with starter, seems to be better than other breads in that regard. (most gluten free breads just have too much rice flour, and rice is high in arsenic. Plus they are just not that nutritious. And I just plain cheat sometimes. Like last night. I had a chocolate chip cookie at an event.

      • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 10:01 am Reply

        Thanks, L. I did not realize the arsenic in GF bread – I will definitely stop that. I guess that is why my FM doctor referred to it as “crap” when I mentioned it. The diet seems to be more Paleo (with no grains, beans or bacon). Just unprocessed seeds, nuts, fresh fruit, vegetables (preferably raw) and clean meat. No beans, dairy, grains, caffeine, sweets, sugar or alcohol. It really does suck, to be honest. The only thing I look forward to in the evening is my CBD wind down and then listening to Pink Floyd.

        • L September 14, 2019 at 10:31 am

          I don’t know if it is available everywhere, but here in CA there is a “bread” called BUK and it has only seeds, no grains. It is very heavy (and very expensive!) so you have to toast it, but it’s good with avocado smashed on top of it, or just butter. And though it is expensive, because it is so dense, it lasts me a couple weeks. https://bukfoods.com/products/original-gluten-free-bread

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 10:52 am

          I have a recipy of rice bread,called “Poor Man’s bread”,in one of my (many :-)) cooking and baking books.I made it,once,many years ago;don’t remember how I liked it.

        • L September 14, 2019 at 10:57 am

          I used to love rice as a side dish but now I have it only very occasionally because of the arsenic. And brown rice, which is healthier has even more! https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/arsenic-in-rice#section5

        • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 11:05 am

          Speaking of rice, I have seen a few sites for micronized purple rice stating a lot of benefits. Ruth mentioned it worked for her. Has anyone else has success with this? Thanks

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 11:34 am

          Micronized purple rice ? This sounds weird,and creepy.Can you eat it? ;-))

        • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 11:59 am
        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 12:20 pm

          Fred,I only see a “miracle” story,one of the thousands,or even milions on the web,that is followed by the well known button: “Ready to order? Click here”.

          I like the photo’s: first,the sick husband,in a pale,white shirt,followed by the same husband,now looking healthy ,in a….PURPLE shirt.Thanks for the good laugh;almost wetted my pants ;-))

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 11:57 am

          Found the following info on the arsenic in rice problem:

          * There are maximum levels set in legislation on the levels of inorganic arsenic allowed in rice and rice products in the EU. (That’s where I live).

          * Basmati rice from California, India, or Pakistan is the best choice, according to Consumer Reports data. These types of rice have about one third of the inorganic arsenic compared to brown rice from other regions. (That’s the only rice I eat;the lowest on the list of glycemic index.And I only eat white rice (which is lower in arsenic than brown rice. I also really love the taste of Basmati rice. Pandan and Jasmin rice taste well,to,but it’s the added Pandan leaves,and Jasmin blossem that make the taste,here,while Basmati has a great taste,by itself.).

          * There is no doubt about it, arsenic in rice is a problem.This may pose a health risk to those who eat rice every day in considerable amounts.This mainly applies to people in Asia or people with Asian-based diets.(I only eat rice,once a week,or two weeks.Never had any of the symptoms,mentioned for a low dose arsenic poisoning.

          * Even when consuming only small amounts of rice,and not on a daily base,you can still lower your risk:

          “Published studies indicate that cooking rice in excess water (from six to 10 parts water to one part rice), and draining the excess water, can reduce 40 to 60% of the inorganic arsenic content, depending on the type of rice.”

  15. Sheila rogers September 14, 2019 at 8:18 am Reply

    I was sorting some old medical files of mine and I have had surgeries for a leg condition since birth my first surgery was at 18 months old then 1-2 times a year until I reached 15 years of age the surgeries done in the early 60’s was done using Flurothane anesthesia – anyone know if this is related to fluroquinlines and ‘ones??? I worry when I see fluro at the beginning of any meds now

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 9:16 am Reply

      Quick response (I’m in the midst of my evening meal). I might have had this same anest.,half of the 60’s. This is what I found,and the “Fluro” is,indeed,from Fluoride:


    • L September 14, 2019 at 9:20 am Reply

      are you sure it wasn’t fluothane? That sounds like what you may have been given, and I can’t find anything saying it has fluoride. But I know, I am the same way. They wanted to do a fluroscan (or something like tat) on my eyes and I kind of freaked out and kept asking if it had fluoride and the doctor looked at me like I was in insane

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 10:21 am Reply

        You’re right,L. must have been Halothane,sold under the brand name Fluothane:


        Probably got that stuff,as well,in the sixties;had an operation of my tonsilla pharyngica,as a child.Firdt got an injection,to make a calm,and a bit sleepy,and while laying on the operation table,got some kind of gass,knocking me out.They almost started the operation when one of them noted I had my eyes still half open.After the operation I had to vomit quite a bit of blood,as did the other children who just had the same operation (kind of Henry Ford system,in that operation room).

        • Sheila rogers September 14, 2019 at 10:29 am

          it’s possible there was a typo, since my condition was in my left leg and all my papers say right leg thank god no one used those papers to do my amputation……. yes I had ether that horrible black mask omg all I have to do is see that in my minds eye and I smell that stuff 45 years later…..so there is no worry with it assuming that was a typo in the paperwork?

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 10:54 am

          Must be the same stuff they gave me;that nasty smell came back,time after time,for years! Even had nightmares which woke me up with that smell in my nose!

  16. 63chevyii September 14, 2019 at 1:30 pm Reply

    ugh … how much does a possible Lyme infection complicate recovery?

    Any input regarding which of my symptoms should be associated with FQ Toxicity rather than Lyme disease (poll in link):

    POLL: Antibiotic Toxicity or Lyme Disease?

    • L September 14, 2019 at 3:57 pm Reply

      well the good news is that treatment is very much the same. When I was getting my IVs, one of my doctors was a Lyme specialist, so at least half the people I saw there getting IVs were there for Lyme. The protocols were quite similar…high dose C, ozone, myers… Not sure how much more it actually complicates it. But I always tell people if they can’t find a practitioner who has had floxie patients, try to find someone who has treated lyme naturally

    • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 4:34 pm Reply

      Keep in mind that most doctors will never acknowledge FQ tox. I was tested for everything under the sun (including Lyme) and found nothing. Rather than calling it FQ tox they called in chronic fatigue and depression (which is BS). I hope you are not being jerked around like this.

    • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 4:39 pm Reply

      Also – how is your bicep tendon? Did it heal fully?

  17. 63chevyii September 14, 2019 at 1:31 pm Reply

    How much does a possible Lyme infection complicate recovery?

    Any input regarding which of my symptoms should be associated with FQ Toxicity rather than Lyme disease (poll in link):

    POLL: Antibiotic Toxicity or Lyme Disease?

    • L September 14, 2019 at 4:00 pm Reply

      …and you can be tested for lyme

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