Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




17,443 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Steph OG March 5, 2018 at 4:29 pm Reply

    So I now get Medicare and can’t seem to find a flipping dr that accepts Medicare. The one I’m going to in Thursday I have no clue if he will make fun of me or write I’m crazy in the notes. At least twice a week I can’t move or my heart beats so fast I feel like passing out. It has been like this for 3yrs and I’m sick of it. I’m sorry I’m usually much more positive but I’m scared to get made fun of again I’m so tired of this stupid need to make drs believe when it’s a double black box medication and they all have that look of what…… I don’t know what to do I’m just tired that every dr listed in the darn Medicare website no longer accepts Medicare

    • Don Mowers March 5, 2018 at 4:54 pm Reply

      Join the crowd of disgusted seniors. Doctors (especially those who deal with Medicare) are locked into a protocol. The MD doctors either toe the line set by the AMA, big pharma and their kiss ass peers in the establishment or get drummed out and have to find another career. Most doctors either try to play dumb, ignore or discredit any information about Flouroquinoline toxicity. I just came from the eye doctor and after the eye injection the assistant was ready to put an antibiotic in my eye. I asked what it was and she said Ofloxicin. I said NO WAY. She said why. I said I am already toxic from Flouroquinolones I don’t need more. It was clear she didn’t understand that.

    • L March 5, 2018 at 5:03 pm Reply

      So sorry to hear that. I lucked out and got not only one who is covered, BUT he is integrative as well. (Of course I have to pay out of pocket for IVs and supplements from him…) They are out there! Good luck. (what part of the country are you in? perhaps someone on here can refer you)

      • Steph OG March 5, 2018 at 6:05 pm Reply

        L it’s me Steph 😜 live in Tacoma wa…. I have to go to a dr on Thursday because I have not had blood work for over a year. Ugh if anyone goes to a Medicare dr in Tacoma or surrounding area that is accepting new patients or has a letter that their dr could give me to use on Thursday when I go see this new dr it would be amazing. I have had 4 panic attacks over this and am already annoyed with myself 😂😂😂😂

        • L March 5, 2018 at 6:14 pm

          The OG threw me off. Is that as in “OMG” ??? 🙂

        • Steph OG March 5, 2018 at 10:29 pm

          L I was being funny because there was another stephanie that popped up so I just added the og to tell difference 😂😂😂…… I’m pretty much tapped out from the wedding. I mean it was super small and boom I still can’t even go a day without being out of breath…… I’m just so tired of paying for stuff that I have no clue will work and nothing happening. Plus the fact I have to explain to another dr everything…..ugh ……. I don’t even know what to bring this dr to get him to believe me I’m just glad he accepts the Medicare pay out and doesn’t make you pay difference….. I’m just needing blood work done so badly😓😓😓😓

        • L March 5, 2018 at 11:09 pm

          I know what you mean. I HATE the thought of going to a new doctor and having to explain everything for the millionth time. I got through the horrible breathing problems finally but now have had post nasal drip 24/7 that then goes into my throat and then my lungs and I have spent so many nights trying to cough it out that my throat and lungs ache. My integrative doc has suggested just about everything he can and I think maybe I should see an allergist, but then a) will it be covered and b) will they think Cipro couldn’t possibly do all this. ugh

        • Steph OG March 6, 2018 at 3:35 pm

          After everything you’ve been though you still have the lung issues😓😓😭😓😓so awful. It’s so hard that’s why when people list off so many things I’m like is it cheap or free. I am so sorry your lung issue is still hurting you🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

        • L March 6, 2018 at 5:39 pm

          Thanks. yeah…after months of really horrible breathing problems, I thought it was finally resolving and then…boom….this congestion from post nasal drip. My lungs and throat hurt today from trying to cough it out (unsuccessfully) last night. Two nights in a row now, zero sleep from this….it just never ends.

        • Steph OG March 7, 2018 at 5:37 am

          I’m so sorry. It all frustrating. I feel like screaming. I’m so tired of this. I’m so sorry I hope you find something to help you!!!

        • jat92517 March 7, 2018 at 12:54 pm

          Redoxa cleared my congestion from food o tolerance.

          You will talk to a triage nurse who will sort through your problem.

        • L March 7, 2018 at 1:55 pm

          thanks but I don’t believe it is from foods. think I have found a solution anyway—serrapeptase

        • L March 7, 2018 at 1:56 pm

          and btw NAC appears to be the main ingredients and I already take that

      • Barbara Arnold March 9, 2018 at 1:38 am Reply

        Hey L, sorry about your lung issues, it sucks I know. I have no idea if it will help you, but I use nano silver, the one Keeri Knox recommends, and it clears my lungs. Just a thought.

        • L March 9, 2018 at 9:49 am

          Thanks Barbara. Actually when I hd the severe breathing problems a few months ago, and my integrative MD thought perhaps it was from a virus, he had me on a colloidal silver for a fair amount of time. It made no difference.

          The current issue is that (I am guessing from mast cell activiation) I have constant post nasal drip. I can feel it at the back of my nose and throat, and inevitably, esp at night, some ends up in the lungs. BUT after spending $100s on different supplements, I think I have found something that is working. First, I am using Xclear which just helps a bit and then, the big help seems to be serrapeptase. I had been using it before for something else. It is supposed to gobble up unwanted proteins. Anyhow, I happened to come across something online about using it for this very thing, and while it is not gone, it is vastly improved! So I will just keep on with this. IT’s pretty amazing stuff, from the silk worm and seems to have so many uses.

    • Bob March 5, 2018 at 9:10 pm Reply

      Go to the Blu Room in Olympia Wa. It is ultraviolet light therapy that may be able to reboot your nervous system.

      • Steph OG March 5, 2018 at 10:34 pm Reply

        I can’t afford to add things I have to pay full price on….. do you know of a dr who accepts Medicare that gets that this happens???? I have to have ivs that I pay full price for plus the cost of Lyft to get there and I get reiki I just can’t add on more things I have a very tight budget.

        • Bob March 9, 2018 at 6:17 pm

          I can’t imagine you Wil find a doctor that accepts Medicare that can help you. I am on Medicare and it will pay for routine tests. The Blu Room is only $60.00.

  2. Peter March 5, 2018 at 6:55 pm Reply

    I haven’t read a full slate of comments in a while, but it seems that people are not listening to John regarding getting magnesium through saturated foot soaks. I have been doing them religiously and following Kerrie’s diet and supplement protocol (with adjustments according to trial and error, as some of the dosages are too high for me), and going to Chinese acupuncture.

    I was on Xanax, then Clonopin, Lunesta and other meds to try to sleep. I am off all of them.
    Don’t go on a benzo if you can help it. Getting off of them after extended use is tricky and
    unpleasant if not done properly.

    No more neuropathy. Gone. For several weeks now. No reoccurence. No more brain
    fog. No more anxiety about floxing.

    The only areas that act up as far as tendons are those that were already weak before getting floxed, but they are getting much better. Exercise every day, a different type every day. Sleep is hugely important. I also got my medical cannabis license from the state. There is a strain they offer that is very good for sleep. Valerian and melatonin are are good too, but must be from a good company. The melatonin has to be taken a few hours before bedtime.
    Just before bedtime is too late. The valerian takes at least 30 minutes to take effect. It is contraindicated with some meds, so do proper research and ask a doctor first. I haven’t needed the valerian for weeks. The melatonin dosage needs to be played with. I was taking 3mg, but it was making me drowsy in the morning, so I cut the pill by 1/3, and take 2 mg.
    Next time I buy it, I will just buy 2mg or 1 mg pills.

    Meditation is also excellent, as it offers a different realm of consciousness than the one where all the worry occurs.

    Coconut oil for brain clarity, kefir and kombucha for digestive recovery, good organic protein sources, calcium through diet, and breathing techniques by Andrew Weil. Pure clean water (lots of it) and good supplements. Organic bone broth and Okra for collagen, and collagen supplements suggested by Kerrie. I sautee the okra with onions, garlic and turmeric, and add to other vegetables or dishes. Sometimes throw in organic chicken or wild fish. Don’t overcook it.

    And, really important – meditation, which creates separation from the anxiety while going through healing, and helps balance the central nervous system, and simply feels good and helps going into a deeper place from which to survey one’s life.

    As far as attacking the Cipro damage, they are all important for me. If I miss a magnesium
    soak, the joint popping sometimes comes back the next morning, but nothing like before, where it seemed my knees and
    shoulders were going to separate from their sockets, because the connective muscle and tendon tissues were getting brittle, and losing their flexibility, and pulling the tissues away from the joints. Was going into my shoulders and neck and thumbs also. Very little discomfort now.

    It has to be a dedicated vigilant holistic attack, on all fronts, and then the body responds magnificently, as it wants to and is ready to heal. The Chinese acupuncture and herbs, if the person knows what they are doing, can reverse the aberrant autonomic response from floxing. They can focus the treatment on the autonomic and central nervous system, which
    was triggered by the fluorquinolone to attack the connective and brain tissues.
    I recommend to not delay, trust the process, and review it all with a doctor (which I am not)
    before following anything expressed here. Just want to let people know it can be reversed –
    living proof. I experience great relief for days after the acupuncture treatments, and feel the herbs giving me a calm energy.

    Trust the power of life that is already within you. See the movie “Heal” on Apple TV.
    Trust the process. Affirm to your inner self that you are healing, and visualize it. The
    body’s internal intelligence will respond, but you have to give it the tools to do so.

    These are just the things that worked for me, and continue to work. Try what feels good and works, but I found that these things have to be given a chance, and the correct dosages and possible reactions to supplements have to be discovered by trial and error. For example, I was taking way too much Magnesium until I did the foot soaks, and had loose stools, nausea, heart palpitations for 3 or 4 days in a row, and then backed off. The Epsom foot soaks are best because the body takes only what it needs. Certain supplements did not jive with my body.

    Avoid sugar and alcohol during the healing process. Absolutely. Stop smoking.

    I guess this seems like preaching, but these are all things I tell myself (I haven’t smoked for many years, and don’t drink at all anyhow). Stopping sugar is a challenge, but it depresses the immune system and causes fatigue.

    I found that the natural things that I could take for the rest of my life without any negative side effects seem to be the most welcomed by my body. The one unknown for me is the Chinese herbs, as I have no idea what’s in them. He makes a different mixture every time I see him, according to what he diagnosed that day. But, the Chinese acupuncturist I see says they won’t interfere with other meds or protocols, and have no negative side effects, which so far seems to be true. I would add caution, however, if someone is
    taking other herbs as well. Tell the acupuncturist everything you are doing to fight the floxing, and he/she can tell you if there is a contraindication.

    Run everything by a doctor who is at least aware of floxing and knows your medical history before following these suggestions. It seems to me the floxing attacks the places in the body that were already weak before the floxing. It seems insidious, but it is just the autonomic system being misdirected and confused, and has to be corrected and reversed. And the weak areas need to be helped, supported and fed with nourishment, proper attention and rest so they can heal.

    And a good attitude. Especially not to see yourself as a victim, as that will lead you down a dark hole. That can be reversed in a few seconds, if you choose to do so. One split second of consciousness and embracing of life can save you from a entire future of negative living and regret, and feeling sorry. It will also infuse hope and energy into your being, which the body will really respond to. It only takes a split second of light for years of darkness to disappear.

    Best wishes and happy healing to all.

    • Don Mowers March 6, 2018 at 6:56 am Reply

      SATURATED FOOT SOAKS. How much magnesium flakes or Epsom salts “in” how much water is considered a “saturated foot soak”? I am sure that many who are wondering just what to do now that they have become floxed. Your information appears to be a good starting point for us. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
      May I add. Be sure that you are using FLUORIDE FREE water. Fluoride removal filters are available from simple water pitchers to whole house systems. Get one of them and use it.

      • A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 7:28 am Reply

        Don, I had planned to reply to Peter’s post anyway and you motivated me to complete the process. The answer is actually in your question. The definition of the word saturated is, “being a solution that is unable to absorb or dissolve any more of a solute at a given temperature and pressure.” So, put in as much Epsom Salts as you can get to dissolve in the tub. It will differ depending on the size of your tub and the temperature of your water. If you are using a standard foot tub you can plan to start with around 4 pounds of Epsom Salts, provided you are using pretty hot water. If you are new to the process I would start there and then work up as your body tolerates.

        John’s protocol reuses the bath a few times. Personally I still like to maximize the area for absorption and do Epsom Salt baths instead. I put 2 pounds in a tub and soak for at least 30 minutes twice a week. That is not as intense as John’s protocol, which I may adopt. What I do to supplement is once a month go go a float chamber where they super-saturate the water with Epsom salts to obtain neutral buoyancy and I am sure my skin drinks it up like crazy during the hour I spend there.

        I also supplement most mornings with some Mg oil and take a 200mg dose of Mg glycinate every night.

        I recently got my Mg level checked using the RBC protocol (supposedly far more accurate than serum Mg) and it came back at 5.7(whatever the units are). That is in the range, but a bit below the 6.0 to 6.8 recommended by the Mg proponents on the web.

        All I know is that my neuropathy is much better with Mg and it seems to help other things too. So, find your protocol, John’s, mine, or whatever works for you and see if it doesn’t help.

        • Don Mowers March 6, 2018 at 7:50 am

          Thank you. After about 30 years of asking doctors my “WHY” questions and getting nothing but speculative guesses I finally figured for myself that I am floxed. Why am I so sure? Because since the inception of Flouoroquinolone antibiotics I have taken maybe 1,000 or more Cipro pills over the past 32 years. (chronic urinary tract infection) I was a guinea pig in the clinical trials of Cipro before it came to market. I stayed with it because it worked and worked well for me. Now I realize the damage it did to me. Now at 83 I have to try to fix some of the damage.

      • Peter March 6, 2018 at 9:39 am Reply

        I use 2 pounds of epsom salts in a plastic tub that is just big enough for my feet, and fill it up
        to cover the ankle bone. 15 minutes.

        • lee March 6, 2018 at 12:23 pm

          can the epsom salt be soaked in with fluoride water or ?

        • Peter March 6, 2018 at 2:17 pm

          To Lee – If you are nervous about using tap water for the Epsom foot soaks, then perhaps obtain a filter that removes fluoride. I also use warm water. Not hot, just quite warm.

        • Don Mowers March 6, 2018 at 3:30 pm

          Fluoride removal filters are not cheap but you can get a housing canister from Filtersfast .com for less than $25 and the Flouride filter cartridge can be bought from Fountain Head Water Systems for about $30. Be aware that the single Fluoride filter would be OK for water you did not intend to drink or use for other potable purposes. The Alumina media (that removes the Fluoride) imparts a bitter taste to the water. If you wanted to drink the water and use it for other potable purposes it needs to have a carbon block filter added after the Flouride filter. In other words a second filter housing and a carbon block filter. I use the two filter system under my sink. I found a carbon block filter that is impregnated with silver at Filtersfast. This two filter filter system is said to remove 99% of the Fluoride, lead, pesticides and other contaminants from the water. If you are concerned about your city water this works well and is much cheaper than a reverse osmosis system. Each of these filters will filter enough water to last at least a year before replacement is necessary. Install a valve on the inlet to the filters to limit the water flow to 1/2 gallon per minute. The longer the water stays in contact with the filter media the more efficiently it filters. I hope this information helps.

    • Bob March 9, 2018 at 6:28 pm Reply

      What is Kerrie’s diet and supplement protocol?

      • Peter March 10, 2018 at 10:32 am Reply

        Go to the home page of this website. On the upper right is an offer to two guidebooks. The first is the one by Kerrie Knox. There is a small cost.

  3. Jen March 6, 2018 at 1:19 am Reply

    4 years later just had another flare up, my whole body hurts I’m only 27

    • A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 7:30 am Reply

      Jen, so sorry to hear about your relapse after so much time. Your age will be a benefit as the younger one is when floxed the more likely they seem to heal and heal fully and more quickly. I am nearing 3 years post-flox and have yet to fully heal, with a brand new symptom just this week (see below).

      Remember that time will help and try not to stress too much about it. Easier said than done. You healed last time and you will heal faster this time.

  4. A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 7:46 am Reply

    NEW FLOX SYMPTOM – what is my future likely to hold?

    So, I am about 2 1/2 years post floxing and finally making some significant improvement. I had started having “normal” days. Not 100%, but so close as not to matter. In fact in February alone I had 13 of these days – nearly half.

    Then last Thursday I woke up with a mild buzzing in my ears. By around noon it went away. Then yesterday I woke up and it was back – this time not so lucky as it has decided to stick around.

    I know that tinnitus is a floxie symptom, but I don’t read much about floxies successfully dealing with this. I scrubbed the last two years of comments on this thread and didn’t find much other than people reporting they had tinnitus. I read one recovery story where someone reported getting better. Do people learn how to “deal” with it? Do they get better and fail to share? Anybody else go over two years without a floxie symptom only to have it show up?

    Hearing is one area where my “abilities” actually improved with floxing. I can hear EVERYTHING!! I can hear co-workers two rows away if I concentrate. The clock ticking at night in our bathroom down the hall was so bad that we had to start keeping the door closed. I did a simple on-line hearing analysis, my hearing isn’t going. In fact this simple test rated me at 97% and said it was highly unlikely that I had any hearing issues. So, the tinitus isn’t a complete surprise – maybe all this “loud” noise finally damaged my hearing.

    I have read enough online already to learn that fixating on tinnitus only makes it worse as there is no “real” sound only perceived sound. But that is easier said than done. I only got about 3 to 4 hours of sleep last night. That is disheartening as the insomnia, which has continued to dog me post-floxing was also starting to get better – I had been averaging 5 to 6 hours of sleep; close to normal. I also know that tinnitus sometimes gets better in a “regular” person after a few months and with ear cleaning. I already downloaded a white noise app to my iPad and that is what helped me get a couple of hours of sleep early in the morning.

    So, my ask of my fellow floxies to help me “believe” and not fixate on my tinnitus – Have you gotten over flox-induced tinnitus? If so please reply to give me some hope. Let me know how long it took, because I know other than the above there are no real solutions to tinnitus.

    Thanks – A.Coleman

    • Cipropoisoned March 7, 2018 at 12:06 pm Reply

      Hi, I was floxed six years and one month ago. The Tinnitus became constant around month 11 and it has been with me since. The good news is that over time it has become less and intense. After 5 years, I would rate it as 1-2/10—there are days when it is louder, but it becomes loud when I am cycling through the pains, etc. I am not back to normal, but I am much, much better.

      • L March 7, 2018 at 12:19 pm Reply

        That’s good to hear, because mine seems to have gotten worse (3+ years out). Maybe it will lessen. I am tired of searching for “cures”!

        • Barbara Arnold March 9, 2018 at 5:40 pm

          That’s great L, glad to hear somethings finally working. Can I ask where you got it. Always good to know, just in case.

        • L March 9, 2018 at 6:37 pm

          Where I got what? Sorry, so many threads, not sure what you were referring to…

  5. Don Mowers March 6, 2018 at 7:56 am Reply

    WHY? Why when I post something not off color but relevant to floxing do I get a notice that “your comment is up for review” or NOTHING AND IT IS NEVER POSTED? Only replies to individual posts seem to be shown. Any answers anyone?

    • L March 7, 2018 at 12:21 pm Reply

      I wouldn’t be too concerned. Sometimes they are reviewed for things like having more than one link in them. Also bear in mind that this is not Lisa’s full time job. It takes time for her to go through all these.

  6. Peter March 6, 2018 at 1:07 pm Reply

    Tinnitus can be due to a number of things. Besides the effects of the antibiotics, it can be due to pressure on a delicate bone by the ear, which could be under pressure from stress in the jaw (have you been grinding your teeth or do you have TMJ?) or ear wax. It can also be caused by heightened activation of a set of neurons in the brain that affect hearing, which is how SSRI’s like Prozac or Zoloft trigger tinnitus. It is possible that the antibiotic affects the same neurons, I don’t know. In any case, I had tinnitus before the floxing, but it was jaw related and stopped by using Invisalign teeth straighteners, which also re-set the jaw bone.

    But then, due to a genetic condition, I started taking an SSRI, and the tinnitus came on strong until I reduced dosage and the body got used to the SSRI. Cipro seems to have
    contributed to it. Since then, following the regime, the tinnitus is greatly reduced and I don’t notice it. I also notice that if I start to notice the tinnitus, when I clear the pressure in my ears, as when on a plane flight,
    the tinnitus diminishes, which means I need to remove some ear wax.

    Chiropractic is said to help if the tinnitus is jaw related. Acupuncture is also said to help with that, and possibly if the tinnitus is due to over-stimulated neurons. If you are taking other meds, you may want to discuss with your doctor if experimenting with lower dosage might be attempted, to see if the tinnitus is reduced as a result.

    Tinnitus is elusive, because it can be caused by many things, but there is a cause for it, and the cause is particular to you. You need to determine which cause is
    the one that is causing your case of tinnitus. If your stress goes to your jaw, that is a good place to start, and start doing breathing exercises. Get a CD called “Breathing – the Master Key to Self Healing” by Andrew Weil. On Amazon. He was a professor of mine many years ago and is a very good resource for integrated medicine treatments. The exercises will help with more than just reducing stress. They are very powerful for regulating the central nervous system and all the systems it controls if done regularly.

    Again, run any such advice by your health care practitioner before implementing. I am not a doctor and only speaking from my personal experience. My health situation is unique, due to genetic factors, so each person should consult with a professional before impulsively trying the first thing presented to you by someone you don’t know.

    • L March 6, 2018 at 1:58 pm Reply

      There are hundreds of ototoxic drugs, the fluoroquinolones being among them. I would guess that if the tinnitus started after the drugs it is related to that.

      • A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 3:47 pm Reply

        I was floxed in September of 2015 and the tinnitus didn’t start until March 1 of this year. So definately post floxing, but so long that I wasn’t sure the FQ was to blame.

        • L March 6, 2018 at 5:44 pm

          Ah well then, that could certainly be a different story. Mine was within weeks or months of the floxing (all kind of a blur now three years later.) It was so weird too because I can recall a couple years ago, someone posted on this site that they could “hear the electricity in the walls.” I didn’t find that odd since I had such severe olfactory damage from the cipro that I could smell things no one else smelled. (Really nightmarish—common everyday scents were so asphyxiating I became a prisoner in my apartment. IT would have been a deal-breaker had it not finally (mostly) resolved.) So I thought if my nose could be that ultra “perceptive” why couldn’t someone’s hearing? In retrospect, I think perhaps that person had tinnitus and didn’t know it—because mine is a kind of hissing/buzzing sound that has a kind of electricity tone to it.

    • A.Coleman March 6, 2018 at 3:45 pm Reply

      Peter, thanks for your reply. I don’t think my problem is jaw related. I don’t grind my jaw or have TMJ. But I wonder if a series of recent visits to the chiropractor might not have caused the tinnitus. I had a very stiff sore neck that wasn’t going away and went to see a chiro. I had my third visit this last Friday. Can they cause tinnitus, if they can reverse it??? I am under too much stress too – floxie and work related.

      I tried to put some H2O2 in my ear this morning and let it do its thing to remove ear wax, but will go get a Murine or Debrox kit at the drug store on my way home from work. I don’t think it is wax, but maybe I will be lucky. I was once diagnosed with impacted wax, but I think it was in the ear that isn’t having problems. Just tried the ear pressurization trick and my ear drums popped, but I noticed no change in the level of the buzzing.

      I already made an appointment with an ENT, but can’t get in until 3/19. If I am lucky this will resolve by then. My half day with the buzzing wasn’t bad last week and even yesterday I mostly ignored it thinking it would go away when I slept. Now I need to start learning how to block it out. Right now mine isn’t loud at all and it is only noticeable when the room is totally quiet. Your comments about learning to live with it are encouraging. Thank you.

  7. Don Mowers March 10, 2018 at 9:50 am Reply

    I just ran on to this web site https://homeopathicassociates.com/
    It discusses poisoning from Fluoroquinolone antibiotics as well as many other toxicities induced by other drugs. I give no approval or any other suggestion. Just passing it on.
    If your interested read what is available on the web site.

    • L March 10, 2018 at 10:48 am Reply

      Didn’t find the article, but I noticed mention of the homeopathic Cipro treatment which makes me very nervous. I know with homeopathy they introduce a small amount of the actual substance that they are trying to eliminate, which makes sense for other types of treatments…but knowing how such a small amount of Cipro can do so much damage I would be leery of reintroducing it to my system.

      • Don Mowers March 10, 2018 at 12:03 pm Reply

        Your opinion. I just put it out there as something that someone might want to investigate. By reading through the different explanations on the web pages they explain how minute the amount of fluoride is that they claim to use. Do they have the answer? Does anyone have the answer?

        • L March 10, 2018 at 12:19 pm

          and I was just stating my opinion, as you say.

      • Bob March 10, 2018 at 3:00 pm Reply

        I am doing homeopathic cipro treatment right now. I feel I am slowly getting better. The frequency of the homeopathic cancels out and reverses the damage of the cipro. I am also clearing out ever drug I ever had with homeopathics.

        • L March 10, 2018 at 3:21 pm

          well, that’s good to hear. glad it is working for you. I had heard about it a couple years ago but was too reticent to try it.

        • Bob March 10, 2018 at 4:28 pm

          I`II keep everyone posted. IT’S a long term treatment.

        • Don Mowers March 10, 2018 at 3:27 pm

          Thank you. I was just trying to pass on information that someone might want to look into. From what I did read on the site it appears that $$$$ ($$$$ from your pocket) are involved if you actually want anything from them. Being skeptical or critical of anything in this “being floxed” would be normal. It certainly appears that many doctors and big pharma are not going to be of any help. The first step in “correction” is to admit the problem and they certainly have not.

      • ursula March 16, 2018 at 11:48 pm Reply

        L we all are scared of homeocipro as just the thought makes me anxious, I am scared of most meds now, the thing is with homeopathy, in the remedy, that is left is only the memory (energy/ frequancy) of the cipro and then the body builds immunity against it, others help me that is the way i understand it. like they give ebstein barr virus “memory” to one suffering from the EBV and then the immunity kicks in better, i myself doesnt know if it works or understand it really, if someone else can explain? it seems the homeopaths only work on immunity against all inflammation as inflammation is the cause of all illness. Sorry my english.
        I am not a cipro victim i am a mefloquine anti malarial victim, took me 2 years to get to 80 recovery, i just waited it out, although i had to use sleeping tab first 5 months and ativan first 7 months. I had all the symtoms, my tinitis 2.5 years then mostly gone, had a good 2 years then (of which the last year i ate more or less terry wahls protocol) and guess what then severe perimenopause cicked in and here we go again severe anxiety etc, im 50, think im near the menopause, its hell there are groups for us and the woman really suffers, most doesnt as we know just hot flashes, but believe it or not many many are about housebound.

        • jat92517 March 17, 2018 at 4:24 am

          I hate to say it, but I don’t think our immune system plays a role in healing from being floxied. The immune system works by your body making antibodies – fancy word for a chemical that combines with the invading living agent capable of reproducing (viruses and bacteria). Once combined the agent has a long Chemical tail and then another one. This structure ties up water and leave us through the mucus membrains in our sinuses and intestines. The body has to make a specific chemical configuration at the end of the antibody for each new virus/agent.

          The problem with the FQs and other things like pesticides, fungicides (all ‘cides) is they are highly reactive and don’t stay in the blood stream very long before they attach to the next thing they hit – a cell, and chemically react and alter its molecular structure. For an antibody to attach to a ‘cide it must be in a high concentration so the ‘cide sees it first. Antibodies aren’t that concentrated.

          The long or slow cure time is due to the FQ’s and ‘cides combine/react with minerals with two positive charges. These render the FQ’s insoluable and they form a fine powder that leaves with the urine. Urine always contains some powder made this way. Fortunately our bodies can tolerate very high levels of magnesium ions (unfornately It cannot tolerate high levels of the other minerals). So magnesium ions in your blood are a friendly way to eliminate FQ’s a s ‘cides – shorting the time it takes to reduce the effects.

          Unfortunately the FQ’s are so reactive they leave behind a wake of Chemical destruction that depletes us of all the repair vitamins, minerals, and other chemistry we make in our organs. Restoring these levels takes a while. As magnesium is second highest percentage by weight (calcium is first) it takes a while for it to satisfy our cells and then build new cells. Worse magnesium has been deleted from our vegatables in the US, so we can’t get the normal amount needed never mind the catchup amount.

          It is important to restore the magnesium levels inside our cells first as the rebuilding process will steal it and other nutrients from our muscles first. This leaves us weak and it can go far enough to be bed ridden. Oy.

          This post has lots of information on how to restore magnesium.

          Hope this helps you to a better understanding and a speedy recovery.

          John Taylor

        • Don Mowers March 17, 2018 at 4:45 am

          Interesting information. From all I read bolstering one’s system with adequate magnesium is the first step needed for starting a recovery. I read that magnesium taken in pill form can have an effective absorption rate from as low as 4% up to 20%. This seems to mean that one is not getting the magnesium replenishment they think they are. I read that Dr. Carolyn Dean has a liquid magnesium (Remax) that is highly concentrated that can bypass the digestive system and go directly to the cells for nearly 100% efficiency. I also read that Angstrom magnesium (not nearly as strong a liquid) is also a very good source of high efficiency magnesium.
          I think the key to better recovery is to learn all the places where “fluoride” is hiding and eliminate them as much as possible. As one looks deeper they will be amazed at all the places where “fluoride” is hiding.

  8. Dave March 10, 2018 at 4:34 pm Reply

    It’s magnesium deficiency. Cipro sucks it out of your cells at the mitochondrial level. I was in a wheelchair for four months . Completely recovered after magnesium regimen. You can take it in pill form not salts. Check symptoms of magnesium deficiency on line. They are all the same as what you are experiencing. My doctors figured this out quickly. I’m shocked people are still unaware of this information about magnesium. Please please start. You will notice changes within first weeks.

    • L March 10, 2018 at 4:43 pm Reply

      Magnesium is important but it is just ONE part of the equation. I was getting 800-1000 mg a day for months. IT was not until I started IV therapy that I started improving.

      • Barbara Arnold March 10, 2018 at 6:55 pm Reply

        L. Serrapeptase. Sorry there was no reply marker on your answer to me regarding lung issue’s. I recommended nano silver, and you said you found serrapeptase helps, so I wondered where you got it from.

        • L March 10, 2018 at 7:09 pm

          oh, ok. I don’t know why the reply doesn’t show up on some posts. Well, I have used two different lines but the one I currently am using is by Doctors Best. I get ALL my supplements from Vita Cost. Can’t remember…are you in the states? They ship for free on orders over $49 and the best prices hands down. (They also ship internationally but I don’t know about rates.) https://www.vitacost.com/

        • Barbara Arnold March 11, 2018 at 3:21 am

          Thanks L. No I am in Spain, but I can get Doctors Best products here.

        • Andrea March 11, 2018 at 6:20 am

          HI. If by Nano Silver you mean Colloidal Silver, I would be carefoul with it. I’ve read that it can cause Argyria, something not funny at all. Now, I don’t know how high the chanses are, but still…

        • Barbara Arnold March 11, 2018 at 7:41 pm

          Andrea, nano silver has smaller particles than colloidal silver. Both are very safe if used properly. Colloidal silver has been used for hundreds of years for different ailments. The case of argyria is extremely rare and is caused by improper use. There is tons of information on the net about this and nano silver. Kerrie Knox is a great believer in nano silver, so she recommends it. I have done a lot of research on it and for myself I am very happy to use it. Each of us should research THOROUGHLY before we take anything that has helped others.

        • Don Mowers March 12, 2018 at 9:06 am

          Ionic silver products, when taken according to the manufacturers recommended dosage, will not cause argyria, a condition that causes the skin to turn blue-gray. Due to the very low concentration of ionic silver and small particle size, true silver colloids do not cause argyria, a condition that causes the skin to turn blue-gray. Argyria happens when the silver particles are too large to be used by the body. The silver particles that can not be expelled migrate to the skin and when exposed to light (“tarnish”) and leave the skin with a blue cast.

        • Andrea March 12, 2018 at 10:21 am

          To Barbara. All right, I just wanted to let you know what I’ve read, but I seee you’re already well informed. Now, let me ask you why do you use it, what is it supposed to do?

      • Don Mowers March 17, 2018 at 4:52 am Reply

        800 to 1,000 mg. From what I am reading magnesium in pill form has a true absorption rate of from 4% up to 20%. This would mean that at 1,000 mg you were really getting about 200 mg of usable magnesium at best. This most likely explains why you got such good results from IV magnesium. Just speculating from what I am reading.

        • L March 17, 2018 at 10:56 am

          Well that was in addition to food sources of mag. Plus some forms are more absorbable than others

        • jat92517 March 17, 2018 at 4:32 pm


          Spot on. A 200 lbs person has about 1 gram or 1000 mg of magensiin dissolved in the blood. 500 mg is the typical consumption. If you are deficient as Floxies can expect they are – with muscle loss certainly – then transdermal with its 30 grams per day rate (foot soaks) is one way to recover. This is a lot cheaper than IVs but whatever floats your boat, get it done.

        • Don Mowers March 17, 2018 at 4:58 pm

          About foot soaks. I am reading that people with diabetes should refrain from foot soaks. The reason given is that foot soaks can dry out the feet and they might develop cracks that could become infected and the last thing a diabetic wants is infected feet. With all the varied opinions about everything on the net I must read this with tongue in cheek.

        • Peter March 19, 2018 at 9:17 am

          Agree to comment regarding being careful with foot soaks. I have received great benefit from doing Epsom salt foot soaks, without side effects, but the last one created some dryness and light cracking in one foot. I had done soaks two days in a row, and with a bit more salts than usual, and for a little longer than usual. I find 2 lbs maximum and 15 minutes maximum work for me, in enough water in a foot tub to cover the ankles. I am not diabetic. It is apparent I crossed over a threshold as far as what my body could absorb without side effects. I will be waiting a bit before doing another soak, and will use Mg spray or gel on the skin in specific locations on the body until my feet are back to normal. Check with your doctor before applying such treatments.

    • L March 10, 2018 at 4:46 pm Reply

      BTW, Dr Jay Cohen, who studied these drugs and wrote the book “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The Worst Medication Disaster In US History,” mentions magnesium as one of MANY supplements that can help. Pretty much everyone on this site is aware of magnesium’s role and taking it in some form.

    • Don Mowers March 16, 2018 at 12:42 am Reply

      I have begun to use Dr. Carolyn Dean’s liquid magnesium. (ReMag) It is touted as being a “pico magnesium” and being a very small molecule that when ingested goes directly to the cells and does not pass through the digestive system so no diarrhea problems. Just half way through the first bottle but looking forward to better things ahead. It is very disturbing how magnesium is so important but so overlooked or maybe ignored by the medical establishment. Their focus seems to be on treating illness with their prescription drugs and not on correcting the underlying cause of the problem.
      Treatment means more $$$$ and curing is not profitable. Sad statement but more true than not.

  9. Andrea March 11, 2018 at 6:23 am Reply

    From Wikipedia :
    “While silver is potentially toxic to humans at high doses, the risk of serious harm from low doses, given over a short term, is slight. Treatment of external infections is considered safe; oral use of colloidal silver is safe for short term administration if the dose is low. Silver is used in some medical appliances because of its anti-microbial nature, which stems from the oligodynamic effect. Chronic ingestion or inhalation of silver preparations (especially colloidal silver) can lead to argyria in the skin and other organs. This is not life-threatening, but is considered by most to be cosmetically undesirable.”

    • L March 11, 2018 at 3:01 pm Reply

      So I just got a notification of who searched my linked in profile …and one was Johnson and Johnson. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

      But I digress. I had mentioned taking serrapeptase and it is helping with breathing issues (it liquifies mucus.) Anyhow, I was reading more about it and I also saw listed several places that it can help with pain. I no longer have this issue, but I know many on this site do, so it is something you might want to research.

      • Andrea March 13, 2018 at 12:35 pm Reply

        Hi L, Can you explain this : “So I just got a notification of who searched my linked in profile …and one was Johnson and Johnson.”

    • L March 11, 2018 at 3:07 pm Reply

      My integrative MD had me on it for a month (oral) and the brand he gave me had WAY higher amounts of it in the solution (3600 ppm as opposed to 500 ppm in another one I had picked up.)

      Not a real fan of Wikipedia. Although I am not saying whether this is accurate or not. (When I was doing a masters thesis we were not allowed to use it as a source because it is not reliable.) Interestingly, here is an essay on that very thing….ON Wikipedia! (Well I give them credit for their inclusiveness!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academic_use

    • Barbara Arnold March 12, 2018 at 6:35 pm Reply

      Thanks Andrea, for your info anyway. I use it when I travel to keep the bugs at bay in foreign Countries. I also use it to get rid of mucus in my lungs. I use the one Kerri Knox recommends, and I spray it in my mouth. It seems to work well for me. I can’t remember but apparently it’s used for a myrad of things. Easy to google it.

    • Don Mowers March 13, 2018 at 8:13 am Reply

      Argyria from properly made and properly used Colloidal Silver is balderdash. Now notice….. I said properly made and properly used. Argyria is caused by the silver particles being too large to be used in the body and they migrate to just under the skin where when subjected to light they “tarnish” causing the blue cast in the skin. Over use of Colloidal Silver (drinking up to a pint a day) can cause Argyria. It was a some what common thing 100 years ago because before making silver solutions using electricity, silver was ground up and given to people. The body was not capable of processing most of the silver powder so what could not be eliminated migrated to the skin and produced what is called Argyria. Ironically……. Science is now finding out that adding silver to current antibiotics is making them much more effective and some antibiotics that became ineffective are now working when silver is added to them. There is a wealth of information about Colloidal Silver on the web beyond Wikipedia.

  10. Andrea March 13, 2018 at 6:24 am Reply

    Hi everyone. Today I’ve done a cistoscopy. Long story short the doctor prescribed me Fosfomycin to take for 2 days. Any info about it? I’m supposed to take it tonight, to avoid any infection. I’m already taking d-mannose and cranberry.

    • Don Mowers March 13, 2018 at 7:43 am Reply

      My lay person (been floxed by “uninformed” Cipro use for 30+ years and a recent IV dose of Leviquin in the ER) opinion. One who uses D-Mannose. Use the D-Mannose often with plenty of water. Cranberry juice is normally loaded with SUGAR to make it palatable. Bacteria LOVE sugar. For Cranberry the best is to use Cranberry extract pills because they don’t contain sugar and they do contain some D-Mannose.

      I use Colloidal Silver. Buying the “good stuff” @ about 10 to 20 PPM is as good as the high PPM stuff. To get the high PPM stuff most times salts are added. Adding “ANYTHING” to the distilled water means that one can not check the the strength of the silver suspended in the water. What are you buying? Salts or silver? I make my own Colloidal Silver with distilled water in a GLASS container, 99.9% pure silver wire and 36 volts of electric current from 4 —– 9 Volt batteries. The ultimate secret to making your own “quality” Colloidal Silver is to limit the current from the batteries to 1/10 of one milliamp by adding an IC current limiter in the negative lead from the batteries. Takes me a minimum of 3 days to get my (small particle “nano silver) Colloidal Silver to my target of about 15 PPM. I have used this Colloidal Silver for about 7 years “and I ain’t blue yet”.
      Quality Colloidal Silver generators are also available from Silver Edge. http://www.thesilveredge.com/ There is also a large wealth of information available on this site.
      Be advised………….. All this is my opinion and my experience, I in no way call it a recommendation.

    • Don Mowers March 13, 2018 at 7:48 am Reply
    • L March 13, 2018 at 8:03 am Reply

      I don’t know anything about that but you might want to up your Vitamins C and A and also pick up something called Urinary System Support by Herb pharm. (These are all part of the protocol used to treat UTIs. (The actual treatment dosages are a bit complicated. They start with super high amounts of A and then decrease everyday. An ND or integrative doc, esp a female, would probably have the formual) but even just adding these things I think would be a good idea.

  11. Don Mowers March 13, 2018 at 8:48 am Reply

    BIOPERINE……….. What is a Bioperine?
    Bioperine is a standardized piperine composition derived from black pepper extract. Made by Sabinsa, it is a standardized extract from the fruit of Piper nigrum (black pepper) or Piper longum (long pepper). It contains 95 percent piperine, which has potential health benefits.
    Bioperine is added to many different herbals. Bioperine is said to be exponential in improving the affects of things it is added to.
    Bioperine can be bought in capsule form at any health food outlet.
    Just a thought………. Maybe adding a capsule of Bioperine to what you are now taking might improve its effectiveness.
    Maybe it is worth looking into???

  12. Andrea March 13, 2018 at 12:35 pm Reply

    Thanks everyone

  13. Don Mowers March 16, 2018 at 12:22 am Reply

    I just became aware of something that I would like to pass on. BOSWELLIA SERRATA According to what I am reading Boswellia Serrata seems to have a big affect on mucous in the bronchial tubes and lungs. I have used it before for it’s ability to fight pain because it helps to block the Cox 2 enzymes. I have started using it again and am finding that it is really helping the bronchial mucous problem I have. Googled information says that using Boswellia Serrata and Thyme greatly reduce bronchial mucous and coughing. I am finding this to be true. As usual, do your own research on this and decide for yourself if it is for you. To your better bronchial health. Don

  14. Kurt March 19, 2018 at 10:43 am Reply

    Since being floxed, alcohol seems to have no effect on me. Went out to a concert this past weekend, and had a few drinks and didn’t feel anything! Anyone else experience this?

    • L March 19, 2018 at 10:46 am Reply

      I had just the opposite. Couldn’t have anything for a year. Now one glass of wine and I’m done. Before would occasionally have 2 or 3. No more. Which I s probably good!

  15. A.Coleman March 19, 2018 at 2:45 pm Reply

    Need an opinion from my fellow floxies. Can I consider taking a muscle relaxer: flexeril (Cyclobenzaprene) specifically? I have been having lots of upper neck issues and it may have lead to tinnitus – I know the FQ can do that, but it has been 2 1/2 years post floxing before the tinnitus onset, so ENT, who was very aware of impacts of FQs didn’t think that was too likely.

    Already tried chiro treatment for the neck, but ENT and audiologist think that may have contributed to the problem. I did NOT have tinnitus before I started chiro treatments!!

    Sounds like mixed results with muscle relaxers on the boards. Some report taking, some report avoiding, but none report the exact impact. Those who seem to be taking them are mostly still so afflicted that it may be hard to discern their impact. Me – I am getting close, maybe 90% healed, so hoping to get the rest of the way not march backward.

    I would love to quickly tackle the tinnitus issue and get back to the minor issues that I was working to overcome in my path to recovery. Only other options left for neck are massage and waiting and hoping (the standard floxie approach.

    Thanks for your feedback

    • L March 19, 2018 at 3:30 pm Reply

      I have had Xanax for airplane claustrophobia. Not sure that is in sane family had no ill effects from it. Re the tinnitus, like anything else related to these toxins I am not sure I agree with your doctor. I think side effects can occur far past the initial insult I Igot tinnitus post cipro and think I had it earlier than I realized. I had horrific olfactory and vision issues that I think were mostly nerve related and I believe the same person s true to f the tinnitus. I had SO much going on I am not sure when it started. I just remember talking with s friend and asking if when it’s compmetely quiet if she hears nothing or hears Lind then f ambient sound like humming, buzzing. It was then I had my “aha” moment. It’s only gotten worse so I’m f you for be anything helps be sure to post!

  16. Andrea March 19, 2018 at 3:12 pm Reply

    Hi A. Coleman. I can’t give you the proper answer, because I don’t know much about muscle relaxers and if they can mess you up even worse. But I can tell you that, this is just my expereince of course, the less I use any king of drug/medication the better. I definetly became more sensitive to anything that is chemical. Have you tried acupuncture / electroacupuncture instead?
    Now that I’m here, I take the opportunity to ask you, and to anyone else , if you ever tried medical cannabis. They say is very useful for aches and pains. I know this has already been discussed but I’d need some first hand infos. Thank you.

    • Don Mowers March 19, 2018 at 4:35 pm Reply

      Andrea. I don’t know about the cannabis “marijuana” (with THC) but I can say that CBD oil can be beneficial in many ways. Some say it is great for pain but I don’t seem to get much benefit from the CBD oil for pain. Where it helps me out is with anxiety. I have anxiety that can come from no where in and instant. The CBD oil seems to help when this happens. It is really disturbing when one is almost asleep and the anxiety hits. CBD oil before bed time seems to help this problem. I have found “zero” negative side effects from it. Works different for everyone so the only way to find out if it helps you is to try it. If you try it be sure that you are getting the best. Trying junk (and there is plenty on the market) will only disappoint you. Investigate Hemp Land USA.

      • L March 19, 2018 at 5:23 pm Reply

        That just reminded me. I am taking serrapeptase for respiratory issues and I recall in my research that some use it for pain. I think it is very anti inflammatory so if that is the cause of the pain it might be worth looking into

        • A.Coleman March 20, 2018 at 8:03 am

          Thanks L, if I don’t take the muscle relaxer I will ask about the serrapeptase because an anti-inflamatory is what I am after.

          My ENT mentioned he would normally presscribe a steroid, but knew not to try that with a floxie. He also mentioned NSAIDs which I also quickly shot down.

          Bad enough the FQs mess us but also leave us with so few other options in terms of traditional meds.

        • jat92517 March 20, 2018 at 8:36 am

          Magnesium allows your muscles to relax and stretch out. There are three salts involved in muscle operation. They switch from inside to outside the cell when the electric signal energizes and denergizes. If your muscles are hard, stiff, and can’t stretch — that Is low magnesium. The other two are calcium and potassium. When they are all up to snuff, you are cured. Otherwise the other chemicals just provide temporary relief. It can take weeks to fully resolve but you should feel relief in a day or two —- and then it will come back. Stiffness when you get up,from resting is the last symptom to go.

          Epsom salt, however you get it. 20 – 30 grams per day. If you have tight muscles you probably are 400-500 grams below what you need.

          LOL, good luck

    • A.Coleman March 20, 2018 at 8:01 am Reply

      Andrea, thanks I should have already mentioned that I have been using acupuncture for my floxie symptoms for the last 2 plus years. It helps some things a lot and others not at all.

      I already had one treatment for the tinnitus and will be adding in treatment for the neck issues too. Initial results are inconclusive. I have two more acupuncture sessions already set this week.

      Other than meds to knock me out for colonscopy and endoscopy early in floxie reaction I haven’t had any western meds since being floxed. I have refused even flu shots. I primarily rely on vitamins and minerals to aid recovery.

      If I do take the flexeril I will be sure to share the impact to me.

  17. jérôme March 21, 2018 at 5:45 am Reply

    jat92517,do you feel better with Epsom baths?

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