This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc. It contains stories of healing.
Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing. Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.
The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing. However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones. They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope. These are their stories.
This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones. It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones. There are people who don’t recover. Their stories are real and they matter. There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.
Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.
Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/
Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?
The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including Daniel, Cindy and Ruth. As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:
Hello guys, how’re you doing? I hope well.
I was thinking about soemthing I wanted to share with you : since all of us have been affected and damaged by FQs, but each one to a different extent, and there’re many different kinds of FQs, I’d like to understand if there’s one or more of them more dangerous than the others. Of course all FQs are terrible and potentially lethal, but is, for example, Cipro worse than Avelox or Avelox worse than Levaquin? and so on…It would be interseting to understand this subtle difference. In mu case, I was permanently damaged by Prulifloxacin.
This is an interesting question, the most prescribed FQs are Cipro and Levaquin, however the doses are not directly comparable as approx. 1000mg of Cipro = 750mg of Levaquin. I recall reading (might be the flox report) that Levaquin has approx. 2 x the therapeutic value of Cipro, therefore on this basis Levaquin for a comparable prescription might have more potential for adverse effects
It is my understanding that Leviqiun is a revved up and remade version of Ofloxacin. The basic formula for Ofloxacin was used and to it were added 2 of the fluoride molecules where it originally had only one. It is said that the reason for doubling the fluoride was to make the antibiotic more effective against both gram positive and gram negative pathogens. Because of the amount of fluoride Leviquin contains I would say it is probably at the top of the list when it comes to the nasty side/after effects. So many of them have been either never allowed to come to market or were removed when they found how toxic they were.
If you type in chemistry of: Cipro & Levaquin you will see that both had only ONE molecule of F in the 6th position. Levaquin is no longer on the market and probably caused so much more damage because it was “vitamin L ” used IV at every hospital in USA for decades. They bought it in bulk and charged insurance top dollar and it killed pretty much everything including your life. I have had Cipro oral 4 times, Levaquin IV & oral and Gemifloxin finished me off. No connection made because there were no warnings. Thought I was losing my mind. By the time it [brand name Factive 7] came on market they had MOVED the F to the 8th position which caused more side effects mostly related to hallucinations, light sensitivity and severe skin rashes. I had them all . I turned PURPLE from head to toe [no warnings of any kind] FOR THIRTY DAYS! Neuropathy became so bad I could no longer ride my competition horses nor could I sleep. Tendon pain & gut disbosis, and losing many teeth from periodontal ligaments dying too. This all happened THIRTY years ago; the good news is I am still here; still fighting; but it ain’t been easy.
Stay vigilant though; even though 22 of the 29 FQs have been discontinued they have at least 5-6 new ones [with F in 8th position] coming to market. Hint the only thing that relieves my pain without narcotics is Kratom [buy online less that $1 a day] and Black Bear Hydroxy b-12 keeps PN and plantar fascitis at bay. I try to get as much Mg in me as I can too. Epsom salt baths & oil help leg pain.
85% of anesthesia is high dose fluorine so if you need surgery ask for propofol. For longer surgeries they can use titration pump. Versed [benzodiazapene with F] alone has 91 ppm of F which is 23X MDC that EPA allows. Good luck clearing that if you are older or damaged.
Caws………. Thanks. It is information like this that is needed by the floxie community. Just speaking basically Levaquin is a revved up version of Ofloxacin. Levofloxacin is a potentially toxic compound. You damned sure won’t hear a doctor explaining it to you.
Thnaks CAWS. Can you explain to me what 6th and 8th position mean?
About Benzodiazepines, A few weeks ago, I was prescribed Clonazepam, for my chronic pelvic pain. It helped a little with the pain, but since the first dosage, I wasn’t feeling good overall. Always tired, which is kinda weird if you think about it, I could sleep a little more, but the next morning I was more tired than usual. Then I felt depressed, nervous…I also noticed that, as I was expecting, after a little, the prescribed dosage, wasn’t working anymore, and if I wanted it to keep working, I should keep increasing the dosage. After 2 weeks I gave it up. I didn’t want to become a junkie. It was about 2 weeks ago since i discontinued the treatment, and after a couple of days of feeling not so well, I started to feel better again.
Tomorrow I have an appointment, with another doctor, to talk about medical cannabis. She will probably prescribe it to me. Let’s see if it helps.
Thanks Jim and Don…yeah, I too remember someone here on Floxie Hope, saying something about Levaquin being the nastiest of the bunch…
Hello All…
Has anyone had an adverse reaction to Famotidine…(Pepcid)? I took it a few days ago and it flared my joint pain considerably:(
Hello all,
help me. I’m Flux 4 years ago, I took one pill from Avalux and suffered from severe palpitations for the first year, and now I suffer from 171 beats of palpitations of my heart. Are there solutions? Do I have a heart condition or panic? Do panic my heart rate today 171?
Pank attack or somthing wrong ?
Any help 😦
Hello all,
help me. I’m Flux 4 years ago, I took one pill from Avalux and suffered from severe palpitations for the first year, and now I suffer from 171 beats of palpitations of my heart. Are there solutions? Do I have a heart condition or panic? Do panic my heart rate today 171?
Is the problem Neuropathy when standing up my heart beat frightening and pain in the nerves of the limbs
Pank attack or somthing wrong ?
Any help 😦
Hello Faisal,
have you undergo through any medical tests and diagnosis? I was severely floxed also, but if medical tests do not show a clear problem, I try to reduce anxiety myself without medical drugs and continue with supplementing body and clean eating. Because putting ourselves in idea of being floxed always, makes our bodies more stressed.
For anxiety, I can recommend magnesium, a good brand “Intelligent Labs”. I stopped caffeine, tea, not smoking, not taking alcohol, no fast food, no sugar, no gluten. I have seen positive results from this diet also.
Regards,
Selcem
Faisal Alkhaldi……….. I agree with Selecem on all the things mentioned and especially the need for magnesium. Do your research on magnesium and you will find that it contributes to over 300 of the body’s functions. It is also seriously depleted by Fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Fluoroquinolines are very hard on the body’s stores of magnesium. Magnesium is a relaxant and it helps all the muscles of the body to relax. Including the heart. It is widely said that because magnesium has been depleted from the soil that nearly everyone (who does not supplement with magnesium) is deficient in magnesium. Bottom line…….. Magnesium is VERY important to balancing out the body.
Dr. Carolyn Dean is one who has spent much of her professional career on magnesium. The web site https://drcarolyndean.com/start-here/
Re pain in the limbs. Topical application of Magnesium Oil will definitely relax the muscles which in turn mitigates the pain. I use it regularly for back pain and leg cramps. The relief is not long lasting but Magnesium Oil can be reapplied as often as desired. It is readily absorbed in just a few minutes.
Re the panic attacks. They are hell! One must learn to recognize them for what they are and do the things that will help to calm you until they pass. Do a Google search on “panic attacks” and get a better understanding of them and how to deal with them.
You are not alone with your problems. Many of us deal with them daily. You must figure out (through investigation by Google research) what may work for you. Good suggestions are out there but one must sift through a lot of stuff to come up wit them.
To A. Coleman… Have you investigated https://aculief.com/ ? The Aculief principle is based on Chinese acupressure. There is an acupressure point in the soft tissue between the thumb and first finger. When pressure is put on this area it helps headaches. It is also touted for helping other things too. Look into it. You might find that it would help. The idea seems kind of funky but seems to work.
Hi everybody,
Tomorrow will be my 5th year Floxiversary!!
I have been posting on my floxiversary every year. Last year I posted that I anticipated writing a recovery story by the time of my 5th floxiversary; unfortunately that is not what I am doing.
I suffered my second most severe relapse in December of 2019. Around Christmas I was starting to think that my journey might have an end in site; but then I had a relapse that saw my headaches and brain fog get much worse and saw a return of sore lymph nodes (a symptom that had been gone for over a year) come back in February 2020. I also suffered a torn meniscus in my left knee about the same time. While this might not be totally fluoroquinolone related I am sure that I was in a vulnerable state and my recovery has been slowed by my FQ status.
In the last year I have continued to see very slow improvement in my digestive problems (digestive problems along with other neurological problems are my major floxie issues). I am now almost completely free of heartburn and stomach discomfort is absent about 80% of the time. My lymph node issue is nearly resolved – for the second time. And most importantly I have started having some days where I don’t experience much brain fog / headaches.
I have even had a few days in the last two months that I would rate as feeling normal. So, I am trending overall in the right direction, but progress is so very, very slow. I wish I could say that I anticipate writing a recovery story by the 6th year floxiversary; but given my relapses as I near healing and my very slow recovery rate I now believe it will be a bit longer than that. I will not write my healing story until I have been “normal” at least 90% of the time for the previous 6 months. While I don’t anticipate another relapse; I’m going to make sure I don’t post a healing story then suffer one.
I still deal with tinitus and neuropathy. The neuropathy in my feet has gotten to the point where I only notice it if I wear uncomfortable shoes or put lots of pressure on my feet (I always get neuropathy for an hour or so after I work out for example unless all I do is yoga or mild weight lifting). The weird cold sensation I have in my lower legs is clearly related to Magnesium and Epsom salt baths and Mg oil sprays make it better. I take lots of Mg threonate and Mg glycinate but it must be getting used up in other areas of my body or not being absorbed and my legs need the external sources of Mg. I still have a bit of an issue with anxiety where I have issues for a week or so then go for a month without. I have been using a liposomal form of GABA when I get a panic attack and it has been helping BTW.
While my headaches and brain fog have gotten much better they are still the primary issue affecting my life most days. I almost always have a portion of the day now that is free of these issues; and have had about 15% of all days be mostly free of problems for the last two months. I also still have weird issues with my neck and I think all of this is tied together to some aspect. I suspect a tiny Cerebral Spinal Fluid leak in my neck is a strong possibility. I also note that my fatigue is much worse when my brain fog is worse.
I still suffer from insomnia. I fall asleep easily but wake up in the middle of the night and can’t return to sleep. Until the last six or so months I averaged about 6 hours of sleep a night. That is up to 7 now and while I still tend to wake up most nights that has shifted to around 4 AM giving me around 6 solid hours of sleep most nights.
In the last year I have found two supplements that have really helped. Thorne – RF Curcumin with resvaratol has helped my neck and knees. It takes a long time to act (probably 1 to 2 months) and I only realized it was helping when I stopped and suffered renewed problems then resumed and they were alleviated. The other is the liposomal GABA from Quicksilver that seems to help my anxiety / panic attacks. (I added it to try to hep the insomnia; but it didn’t help there.)
I expect I will be able to write a healing blog some day. I do get discouraged from time to time; but I am still changing and in the large season compared to season sense it is for the better. I appreciate the support of the folks on Floxie Hope and hope you are all doing well in your healing journey too. Let’s all hope that the next floxiversary is associated with a healing story post!
Thanks for updating us with your progress and what has helped you; sorry your 5 year anniversary doesn’t bring better news. Sorry about the insomnia too; that might be the very worst of all health problems. Someone just recommended Trazodone to me for depression: it’s also used off-label for insomnia. If high doses of magnesium at night before bed don’t help your insomnia, this might be worth trying.
Some quick update guys, My Anxiety has increased after supplementing with MSM a Sulphur based compound, I think many people have genetic variations that makes them weak at dealing with Sulphur. I have also learned that the bodies PH level SIGNIFICANTLY impacts anxiety, the amygdala responds to higher acidity levels and neurons fire more rapidly causing anxiety, Try avoiding high Sulphur foods and supplements.
Some other TIPS.
1 – TREAT THE ANXIETY don’t wait – GET HELP in the form of a SGB block, watch the 60 minute interview on a stellate ganglion block for PTSD/Anxiety many of us dealing with live changing consequences of the plosion we were given are suffering from some form of anxiety or trauma disorder. PLEASE try and get an SGB injection done, Dr Lipov is the best, he also conducts he used both a lidocaine solution and for SEVERE PTSD he even conducts a ”radiofrequency (RF) ablation of Stellate ganglion region (SG) ”.
2 – Zinc is the MASTER ORGANISER – take it you are likely deficient and it helps in calming the excited neurons.
Hi all,
I became a Floxie three years back but learned how to overcome it using supplements and diet changes. I have been Floxie free for about a month and am restoring the damage at a steady pace. I have to recover from the financial ruin next.
I think everyone can get past being a Floxie in about a year. The first thing to do is to chemically remove all toxins. It takes two treatments. First remove the Fluroquinolones with Sturated Epsom salt foot soaks. 15 minutes a day for four days is required. Second take a daily tonic of Borax solution , one ounce. 2 teaspoons in a quart of water.
I look forward to your results and questions.
John Taylor – The Healthy Truth
Magnesium Oil……… It is magnesium chloride and distilled or clean filtered water. DO NOT underestimate the power of it when it comes to relieving muscle cramps. Muscle cramps anywhere on the body. Just spray it on and let it absorb into the skin. One can make it into a roll on by using an old roll on bottle. Just drill a hole near the top and fill it with Mag Oil. Cover the hole with a piece of tape. It works and it is cheap. Try it.
I just want to second Don’s suggestion. Henk is gone now and not here to preach the miracles of Epsom Salts and Mg; so I will try to take up his mantle. Topical Magnesium really does help even when you are taking large oral doses.
I use Mg spray when my neuropathy in my legs flares up and usually after three or four days of application it will either go away or be mitigated. And I take weekly Epsom Salt baths for both the detox impact and the Mg. I use the Zechstein Spray version of Mg that I buy on Amazon; but as Don notes you can even make your own. It may itch a bit when first applied and might leave a slight residue on your skin if some of the magnesium isn’t absorbed; but it really works for nerve pain and muscle cramps.
Another thing that Henk was very strong on was the Bob Beck Protocol. https://www.bobbeck.com/pdfs/beck-protocol-handbook.pdf
PMEF works. Only one reference per post or it gets reviewed and usually scrapped. See the next post for information on Dr. William Pawluk …. and expert on PEMF
https://www.drpawluk.com/ MEDICAL AUTHORITY ON PEMF THERAPY, MAGNETIC FIELD THERAPY …. PEMF has been around in the world for many years. It is just beginning to catch on here in the US but it’s acceptance is outside the MD world. May I add? The MD world does not want competition for their pills. It can be found in the world of Chiropractors and ND doctors. Investigate it. It is a non invasive way to slowly improve your health. I say “slowly” because PEMF is not a 3 day mask over the problem.
Also light therapy from the specter of red and infrared Is beneficial too. The thing called “Cold Laser” uses these light specters. Investigate it. It is also a non invasive thing. Just like PEMF light therapy is not a 3 day fix that just masks over the problem. Spending 30 minutes with the feet under a light panel, doesn’t “cure” the peripheral neuropathy problem, but sure make them feel better.
I was wondering if anyone has tried to take another antibiotic (different from a florquinolone) soon after being floxed? If so, what was your experience? I had to prematurely stop taking the florquinolone, due to severe adverse symptoms, so my original infection was never cured. I am very concerned that this new antibiotic will cause problems since I took the florquinolone a week and a half ago. This new antibiotic has the capabilities to cause a QT prolongation, but should be much safer. If it is good to wait to take the new antibiotic, what would be a good amount of time to wait? It is difficult to trust any medication at this point. Thanks for the help!
Jessica – the post Antibiotics after FQs on My Quinn Story is a good list of usually tolerated antibiotics. https://www.myquinstory.info/antibiotics-after-fqs/
One concern; sounds like you were just recently floxed. What were your symptoms? And be warned it is not atypical to have fluoroquinolone reactions months following taking them, because the damage they wreak can take time to surface. In my case it took about 6 weeks. I say this not to scare you; but so you know that a perceived reaction to a new antibiotic might just be a delayed additional symptom from the fluoroquinolone. Also, knowing why you think you need an antibiotic would help. If it is something like a UTI or other common infection there may be many ways to treat it without an antibiotic.
At five years post floxing I haven’t needed another antibiotic. And I don’t know what I will do if / when I ever need one since even before my floxing I was already allergic to Keflex, which is one of the three reported as tolerated my many floxies. I would probably try one of the others on this list or possibly Penicillin; it’s been around for a very long time and is in the same family as Amoxicilin, which is listed as usually tolerated.
In your position I would investigate lots of options before taking another antibiotic. Check this site for your condition or post and I am sure other floxies will have options to try before an antiboitic.
Jessica,
Your request is complex. Please tell us your FQ symptoms. Depending on your symptoms, I would recommend different things.
Fluroquinolones are easily removed from your body with saturated Epsom salt foot soaks. Because of this, as a fully recovered Floxie, I prefer Cipro as it is removed after 4 days. BUT you are not a fully recovered Floxie. It takes a lot of work to recover from your current condition. Don’t let that discourage you as the full removal process shows benefits immediately while complete removal can take a year.
First, you experienced symptoms more from the accumulation of antibiotics and other toxins over your lifetime. These chemicals stay in your body on the surface of your cells and out of the blood stream. The last antibiotic you took pushed you over the point where the destructive process exceeded your repair process. It was “the straw the broke the camel’s back.” Any antibiotic would have had the same effect. This is why you became a Floxie and others did not. Unfortunately your doctor doesn’t understand this. Removal of just a little moves you away from this tipping point. So if you start removal, you will be better able to handle any antibiotic.
Removal requires on two chemicals that chemically react FQs (Magnesium) and all other toxins (Borax). Most of the stored toxins you have arrived in our food supply. Two pounds of turkey contains one dose of azithromycin. Everyone is accumulating destructive chemistry. Those of us who have taken frequent antibiotics become Floxies first.
Magensium salts – sulphate( Epsom salts) and Chloride (Only available,on-line) must be adsorbed through the skin to reach concentrations high enough to remove FQs. Soak a foot for 15 minutes per day. In four days you will have removed the FQs. You should notice a benefit immediately. You can take any antibiotic at the same time because of “immediately”. Yes you are reducing the benefit of a FQ but it will still do its job. Epsom salt is available in a grocery store in the first aid section. Buy two bags. magnesium chloride is available on-line in 8 pound bags. When it comes in use a 50/50 blend.
Borax is taken a drinking an once a day of two teaspoons in a quart of water.
Heavy doses of Vitamin C like 5000/day will reduce an infection. It is anti bacterial. It does little for a common cold, but bacteria take a hit.
Repairing the damage antibiotics cause is very complex. I have written 90 pages on what I learned doing this. The complexity comes from repairs have to follow a very specific sequence. It is a step by step process. Each step requires different supplements and diet changes. Taking a supplement for a more advanced step can steal nutrients for the current step aggravating or reversing the repairs of the current step. It can make the current malfunction quite severe so it is very important to follow the sequence. QT prolongation can be repaired but one part is at the end of the 90 pages.
I hope this helps. Please respond with any question you have.
John Taylor – The Healthy Truth
Where does one find the 90 pages?
Don,
They are available as an ebook at amazon.com. The title is The Healty Truth – Supplements and Signposts Used to Repair my Cipro Damage… by John Taylor.
There is a lot in here for anyone still suffering from taking a fluroquinolone or just living in the US accumulating toxins from food. Avoidance is nice but getting this stuff out of you quickly is much better.
John Taylor The Healthy Truth
Re the Jessica and A.Coleman posts. http://pantrypharmacy.com/2018/12/20/the-kill-list-e-coli-edition/ This is some interesting reading. More complicated than popping an antibiotic pill but maybe natural will work better and have permanent results in the end.
Jessica…….. Read this article: “Don’t kill E. coli bacteria that cause bladder infection, feed them” https://nutritionandhealing.com/2014/06/04/eliminate-bladder-infection/ I use D-Mannose and it does work. The nice thing about D-Mannose is that since it is called a kind of sugar you can use it regularly to ward off future infections.
John Taylor, can you use Boron instead of Borax?
No.
Boric acid is toxic if ingested. Very toxic. Borax is not toxic at low concentrations. At two treasons per quart the soapy taste is very slight.
John Taylor….. I get the Borax. Mix 2 teaspoons in a quart of water and take about 1 ounce of it daily. Store the remainder in the frig for future days.
The foot soak. Only one foot at a time? Not both feet? After the 4 days, how often?
Next…. On the various vitamins that you recommend. Should on be taking them along with the foot soaks and Borax? Or should one be abstaining from them until later? You stress the importance of doing things in the proper sequence.
I did go on Amazon and buy your ebook. I am a slow reader and have a hard time comprehending/absorbing what I am reading but it is very interesting information. If it helps me it is well worth working at it. I am 86 and have no idea when I can say that “officially” I was floxed. 60 years ago I acquired a simple UTI and was sent to a young and well meaning Urologist. At the time I trusted him and didn’t realize that the more procedures he did the more money he could bill. With all his fiddling he turned the simple UTI into a chronic prostate infection. Over 25 years I was shuffled among 7 different urologists a couple of infectious disease doctors and a gastroenterologist or two. Along the way I had a couple of surgeries. No one could fix the problem but they kept feeding me antibiotics. Then along came Cipro. I was enrolled in the “compassionate use” program and took Cipro (750 mg per tablet 2 times daily) before it even came to market. It worked!!!! I had no idea what else it was doing to me and no doctor ever said a word about long lasting and sometimes permanent adverse effects. Now when one tries to explain “floxing” to a doctor they just roll their eyes and put their tongue in their cheek.
For about 30 years I took Cipro every time the UTI came back. Over that time span I must have taken 1,000 pills. I always had some strange thing going on but the doctors always had their own explanation. Then I began to read about Fluoroquinolones on the Internet. That’s when I realized what had been happening to me all those years. Between my age and the floxing I am paying for it now!!!
Now my trust in doctors is seriously shaken.
To quote from the My Quin article “What is Floxing” “Most doctors find the broad scope of the damages in the Fluoroquinolone Toxicity syndrome preposterous and they simply can’t wrap their heads around a differential diagnosis to include the Fluoroquinolones. Despite the symptom being listed in the drug literature, most doctors don’t know what to look for or how to connect the symptoms”. When you ask a doctor about floxing and he says “never heard of it” one had better get out of his office pronto!!!
Don,
You make a good point about timing. I’ll have to update my book about this.
I take the borax first thing in the morning and the supplements 8 or more hours later. I also take 60mg of melatonin at bedtime. My ND recommends 120 milligram but I cut back as it would make me sluggish.
Since antibiotics and biocides attach to the surface of your cells and are out of solution they stay in you for years. Most of this comes from our modern food, so it is very important to remove them. This is why doctors don’t know how to help you.
I just soak one foot for 15 minutes a day. I soak the foot with the worst leg for cramps. After the 4 days, the Floroquinolones are removed. I did It once or twice a week as long as my muscles were limber. For three years I didn’t know about the importance of Magnesium chloride. When I realized this I had a lot of catching up to do and I soaked for an hour every day – as long as I had computer work. So you have to listen to your body.
I appreciate your comment about the time it takes to absorb this information. We are talking about a lot of changes. it takes time to own and make these changes. There is a lot of information to absorb. The first six chapters get one to first base. Unless you have specific problems, hold off on supplements until you reach chapter six and your Vitamin D levels are high enough so you sleep soundly. Raising your Vitamin D level will consume a lot of magnesium so adjust the number per week to keep the magnesium levels up. Vitamin D and magnesium are used by all parts of our body to repair things, so make sure you have enough of both so a repair supplement has both available to make new or repair What the supplement is working on.
I think weight loss is a good example of how complex our body chemistry is. There are thousands of books on weight loss inspired by someone’s success. Yet the US is overweight.The keto diet is emerging as successful more and more. I modded by taking so starch for about 4 months.
Thanks for asking your question on this blog. I expect it will help others.
I look forward to your post in about a month on the progress you have made.
LOL
John Taylor
Hey guys, how are you doing?
I wanted to share with you my latest experience with a new “supplement” : medical cannabis.
I recently found a doctor who prescribed it to me, so I’ve been using it for the last few weeks. My main problem is frequent urination and chronic pelvic pain, and other aches, expecially in my ankles and shins. While the cannabis didn’t help much, well let’s say it helped just a little, with the pelvic pain, I’ve noticed great improvement for the aches in my legs. I usually walk a lot, as a form of soft training, 5-6 miles a day, but if I’d did it for 2-3 days straight, the pain started to increased, and I had to stop for at least 24 hrs, sometimes even more. But now, with the help of cannabis, I’ve noticed I’m able to walk at a nice pace, even uphill, everyday, without any problem and when sometimes, in the evening, the pain come back, I use cannabis, and in a matter of 15-30 minutes, the pain really decrease or even disappear. I’ve also noticed I’m way more relaxed and happy, well, let’s say less grumpy.
That’s all for now. Wish everyone the best, expecially the old “friends”: Don, A. Coleman, Barbara, well…everyone.
Andrea.
Hi Andrea,
Really glad you have found something that at least helps you some. Thats great. May it continue and improve for you all the time.
Some information for other floxies is always useful.
From my point of view, I went for some more sessions of ozone autohemotherapy as I was feeling so fatigued. I had three sessions but the first and third session caused a massive herxheimer re action, or a healing re action. I could not stop shivering inside, just like flu symptoms and my urine was brown. I realised I was detoxing and after a day I was feeling so much better, and everything went back to normal. I was going to have a couple more, but I didn’t want to experience that again, so I stopped. In the early years I did get a herx reaction but not as bad. It is quite common, and if you persevere the ozone really does help. I am feeling a lot less fatigued than before.
I’ve also discovered a suppliment called C60 , it’s a really powerful antioxident, and I’ve noticed this has helped me to. Worth researching for those that are interested.
Hope other’s are healing here.
Barbara.
I’m doing good thank you Andrea, I’m glad you found something that helps. I would like to try medicinal cannabis or CBD, but I’m embarrassed to talk to my doctor about it!
Right now a lot of my symptoms have gone or nearly totally disappeared including my brain fog and any joint pain etc that I had. Even the tinnitus I haven’t really notice at all lately.
About 3 weeks ago, like G W Bush I announced to my wife “mission accomplished”. I had been so symptom free or just mild tingling etc from the neuropathy for a couple of months that I thought it was basically over.
However. Right after that I hit the gym for a week solid, doing lots of stuff including running, weights. And following that I had a total crash. My neuropathy returned, with tingling all over including places that I thought had healed (arms, back of head etc).
I’m at 15 months out now.
So I’ve relapsed a bit, but the only symptoms is neuropathy. Unforutnately it’s fairly widespread, so I get cold feet, cold feeling up my shins/calves and even a little in my forearms (though its very mild there)….
so I started taking nortriptyline that I had and the occasional gaba just to smash it. And I’m taking it easy. Damn I hate this thing.
I was reading a paper that talked about the cycle of mitochondrial damage and oxidative stress, and how if you exercise you get more oxidative stress that causes more mitochondrial damage (if you already have damaged mitochondria) so you should only do moderate regular exercise and not try to smash it….
lesson learned.
Hope everyone else is doing OK
Hi Michael, I think you’re completely right about the mitochondria part. I’ve learned it the hard way too. Walking everyday, ankle pain pemritting, it’s completely fine for me, but if I’d try to do more serious stuff, after a little while, maybe a couple of weeks, I find myself exsousted and I have to stop for a while. You gotta find the sweet spot where you can do somenthing to keep your body moving, but without overstressing it.
About cannabis now, I’m not trying to incourage you in any way, but why are you ashemed to talk about it with your doctor? Plus, where do you live? Are you from the US? Many states have it legalized, I wish I could live in a place like California or Colorado, where you can buy it without any problem whatsoever…
Andrea,
I noticed you get exhausted from walking. Are you out of breath or are your legs tired? If out of breath, this a aheart strength issue so your body isn’t getting enough oxygen.
Michael, I think that your sudden bout of exercise especially if you hadn’t been exercising all along through your floxing could also just be detox. Exercise is great at detoxing your body and all those stored toxins were flushed out of your system at an increased pace by your activity. Then you had to deal with them leading to the return of your neuropathy.
I wouldn’t stop exercising or limit it to only walking and light weight lifting. Instead I would focus on slightly more strenous activities. You do eventually need to get rid of those toxins or you will potentially suffer a serious relapse that is seemingly out of the blue in the future. I think this is what happens to people who have “recovered” from floxing only to relapse. They start doing normal things and trigger a detox cycle and that causes a relapse.
I would suggest you think about activities that have lower impact on your joints but still are cardiovascular. If you can swim that would be great, I use a rowing machine regularly (or did before COVID) and also do lots of elliptical work. I admit to being a bit trepidatious about returning to exercise when I can – what I am doing at home isn’t as intensive as what I did previously. Read more about how exercise can help with detox here – https://www.today.com/health/can-exercise-detox-your-body-its-not-about-sweat-1C7634616
I also caution you against using the drugs to mitigate the symptoms of the neuropathy. Those will help how you “feel” but have their own side effects and I question if they decrease the ability / pace of healing in your nerves. Topical Mg in the form of Epsom Salt baths and Mg Oil spray will help some of those symptoms without taking yet another drug.
Be aware too that Epsom Salt baths are another strong detox trigger. I take one a week with lots of Epsom Salt and very hot water. I always feel a bit worse for a few hours after the bath; but much better the next few days.
Andreas, so good to hear!! Glad you are “feeling” better and walking away with less pain! I’m still dealing with small issues (mostly skin issues, dry with some eczema) and also peeing a lot too. Of course I’m not at my pre flox days and May never be but managing to live life pretty normal as much as possible!! Three years out now. Let’s keep on marching forward!! Good to hear happy news from you!!!
Dee,
Skin issues, especially peeling can be caused by a Magnesium Chloride deficiency. If you have stiff or sore muscles too, Bingo. MgCl is available,on-line. Add it to your Epsom salt foot soak.
Hiya. I’m interested to know if anybody with neuropathies got better after 1 year. The reason I ask is that this is my main symptom now (peripheral neuropathy small fiber). I know people have gotten better from it but from what I’ve seen a lot of those got better within a year. What I’m wondering is if anybody’s resolves after that. Anybody had it and it went away at 18 months, 24 months, 36 months etc
I’m at 15 months and really wondering if I’m stuck with this for life or whether I can hope for more resolution of symptoms at this stage…
Thanks!
From what I have read about the peripheral neuropathy issue it is caused by the die off of nerves and one must get them back to life again.
Michael, as you know you and I share many similar symptoms and I am now 5 years into my floxie journey. I can tell you that my neuropathy both got better and worse during that time. The neuropathy in my feet has slowly gotten better and now at 5 years post floxing I only notice it a few days a month and after I exercise. Apparently the banging on the nerves of hitting my feet repeatedly when I exercise triggers the neuropathy, but it only lasts for an hour or so after the exercise ceases.
However, at about year 3 I started getting a weird form of neuropathy in my lower legs. Just on the inner surface of my calves and the lower third of my thighs I get a weird cold sensation. This is very specific. It only happens when the temperature is below about 72 degrees Fahrenheit (22 Celsius), and then only when there is fabric touching my legs. It really flares with jeans and with tighter slacks. It comes and goes, but affects me about 50% of the time. In the summer when it is warmer and I can wear shorts I hardly notice it at all. This has gotten a tiny bit better, but is still an issue and one I am starting to suspect may be with me for life. Neuropathy in my feet took about three to four years to get to its present level, so there is still some hope for this odd symptom. It is not unbearable, but is really annoying.
I suspect that if you are still experiencing neuropathy at 15 months that you will have some impact for the rest of your life, but also think that the body will continue to heal and the impact will lessen over time. Eventually I suspect that your neuropathy will become an intermittent annoyance with a few days every now and then when it truly bothers you. Nerve cells take far longer to recover from the damages to mitochondria than other cells and sometimes never do recover. Your age when floxed and level of floxing all play into recovery. See this article for some good basic information about how nerves regenerate and transport mitochincria – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955021/
A.Coleman, thank you for sharing your story with me. It really helps to know. I also came to the realisation this last week, that maybe some of these symptoms at least are with me to stay, for the rest of my life.
That was a bitter pill to swallow. Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll see but still, it’s becoming more likely as the 18 month mark steadily approaches. The reason I say the 18 month mark, is because speaking to a neurologist he told me that 18 months is the time-frame they normally give for medication related neuropathy to get better, after that he says it’s “residual symptoms”.
But I haven’t lost all faith yet, as you say other people have noticed continuous improvement, very incrementally and gradually over years.
What I did want to raise again was the question of B6 toxicity. I have seen a number of Facebook posts of people who have had B6 toxicity. There are a few groups out there. It seems another type of “flox” situation. One lady in particular told me that she developed neuropathy from taking just 100mg of B6 pyridoxine for 4 months. I was surprised because I thought you had to take doses much higher than that.
However, I did get a sense a few months back that B6 was affecting me in a bad way. I discontinued it and cautiously restarted it recently. However, I’m only taking about 50-100mg intermittently, at times P-5-P on it’s own other times I take my B-complex multivitamin that has 100mg of pyridoxine.
So I’m stopping my B vitamins. I will continue with B12 complex and see how I feel in a few months. It is a concern to me that I may not just have floxed myself but I may have had B6 toxicity on top of that. I do wonder now.
I will say on the bright side I am doing really well otherwise. I mentioned it before. Brain fog, joints, orthostatic, other weird side effects, flu like symptoms etc have gone.
Hope you are well.
Man I miss Henk. I didn’t know him for that long, but I just remember you and Henk talking and me trying to pick up pointers back at the beginning of my flox story.
Micheal,
The answer to the question of neuropathy Is yes yes yes, it is possible. The details can be complex.
That fact that You can feel tingling or anything anything at all says the nerve is not severed mechanically. So the nerve is not working up to standard. There are two reasons for this. Most likely it is a salt conductivity issue. Primarily nerves use sodium Chloride for conductivity however other salts are very important. Saturated foot soaks of Epsom salts and magnesium chloride plus Magnesium taurate pills will bring the magnesium inside your tissues up to functional,level. the taurate ion associates with surface of brain and nerve cells so it draws positive ions like magnesium to nerve cells.
Taking magnesium malate and glycinate pills will help draw magnesium to your muscles in a similar manor. You need all five of these salts.
Pink Himalayan salts Contain many other salts that help nerve function. You should feel your nerves come alive like star dust falling down your legs. This can take a week.
The second reason is the nerve cells don’t make enough energy to transmit a signal. This is a glucose and mitochondria Deficiency inside the nerve cell. Glucose deficiency inside the cell is diabetes related. The glucose can’t get inside. None for the western medicines or “glucose herbs” help glucose get inside brain and nerve cellS. If you starve a cell for glucose long enough, it will die. However nerve cell death by diabetes has a priority. Hearing and eye sight go first. Since you didn’t complain about these, I believe your foot nerves are still alive.
So take heart in my story. 21 months back, I lost half of my remaining hearing, vision was so blurry I could not read road signs, my legs were shoe polish black below my calves, My feet were numb and ice cold, my right foot slapped when I walked, and my right leg/foot didn’t help with balancing. I basically was working with a peg leg. Today my feet tingle slightly once in a while. My vision is back and my legs are normal,skin color. My balance is so good I am started to run again. I have a normal gait.
So,how did this happen. The first thing to do is remove all toxins. Foot soaks take of the Fluroquinolones in about 4 days. Borax removes all other toxcins. That takes 8 to 12 months.
Getting glucose into the cells involves many steps that I describe in a amazon kindle book “The Healthy Truth” by John Taylor. It is a multi-step,process. However, there are fast work arounds you can do while you are waiting for the nature cure to take hold.
1- Eat oil coconut oil 6 teaspoons/day. Drink olive and avocado oil 2 ounces daily. Oil is an alternate fuel that goes right into all our cells.You will notice you are not as hungry and save money on groceries. Oil reduces the need for glucose.
2- Take D- Ribose. It is a sugar you can buy on Amazon. D-Ribose is made From glucose by the mitochondria so taking it decreases the work the mitochondria has to,do. It is like doubling your existing mitochondria output while you build new ones. You want to take measured amount. If you don’t have enough energy to get through the day, start with 6 spoonfuls. If you have too much energy so you can’t fall.off to sleep at night, decrease the spoonfuls. If you want more daily energy increase the number of spoonfuls.
3- Take Omega3 fish oil. Any fish oil is beneficial. the expensive ones advertised as better don’t add a noticeable,benefit. 4 grams per day.
I should also mention the exercise for pinched nerves. There are many but This exercise will strengthen your back quickly.
Stand with your feet together.
Hold a 2.5 pound weight in your right hand fully extended.
Move this weight in a circle to the front and your left side.
move it in a circle (full,arm extension) to your back. At some point you have to bend your arm.
Repeat five times.
repeat with your left arm.
When you can do 3 sets each arm, increase the weight.
What you are doing is making the muscles contract on the opposite side from the weight to keep your balance. As these muscles get stronger, they will hold your spine in alignment so the nerves don’t get pinched.
Well this is start. You should feel improvements in a week or two.
Hope this helps.
John Taylor
Hi Michael (and all floxies reading this),
I’m Ray, from Ray’s story of cipro poisoning. That happened to me 6 years ago, and although I don’t check the site often nowadays, when I was going through the worst of my symptoms I came here a lot for hope. So I make a mental reminder to come back when I can.
For me it got better. At 6 years out I’m actually in the best shape of my life. Right after cipro I could barely walk a city block without being in pain, feeling the muscle twitches, and enduring the neuropathy. It was incredibly scary. 6 years later… this weekend I ran a 21k half-marathon distance, went hiking, did a back workout, and went for an interval run today.
It was a hard road to go from there to here, and especially for those first months, that first year. Some things resolved earlier, some things took longer. I know when I was checking this site I was suffering and I wanted to know timeframes, for when I could hope for it getting better. In the worst of my despair I worried I would never get better. I did though.
So I post this here, and come back to the site infrequently when I can, to offer inspiration and hope. I came back physically and mentally stronger. I feel very deeply for everything everyone here is going through, believe me. It’s possible. I believe in you. Please believe in yourself. You’re stronger than you know.
Warm wishes to all,
Ray
Thanks Ray that means a lot. That’s where I want to be in a few years. I don’t mind if it takes some time. I just don’t want the rest of my life to be constant burning and tingling and stinging!
Dr. Carolyn Dean MD ND
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When Magnesium Makes Me Worse
October 11, 2012
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When people take a drug or a supplement they take it with the expectation that it will make them feel better. We know that’s not always the case with drugs but what about supplements?
I wrote the original post Oct 11, 2011. Since then it’s had almost one million views. By 2017, many people were reading the second edition of The Magnesium Miracle (2017) and hearing about magnesium. As a result, more people are taking magnesium than ever before and a few people are wondering why it sometimes makes them feel worse.
In about 1 out of 100 people there can be a shift in symptoms that you don’t understand. Here’s how one reader put it. “My obvious magnesium deficiency symptoms, cramping, muscle aches, headaches, etc., are worsening slightly rather than getting better. Anxiety is the only thing that has gotten better. Is this normal? I’m using magnesium oil and magnesium citrate but not yet able to tolerate more than 200-300mg without getting diarrhea.”
For the side effect of diarrhea, I recommend switching to my magnesium product, ReMag because it’s fully absorbed at the cellular level and has no laxative effect. I also recommend its companion product, ReMyte (multiple mineral), a 12-mineral formula that is also absorbed fully into the cells and supports the thyroid and adrenals.
However in “sensitive” people, even ReMag can rev people up too much, or trigger an irritable bowel. If you are chronically fatigued and in, what I call, Total Body Meltdown, feeling revved up may make you feel weaker in the beginning. If that’s the case, just cut back and take less ReMag and then work up slowly! Take 1/4 tsp of ReMag in a liter of sea salted water and sip it through the day and slowly build up. Some customers may have to take only a few drops of ReMag in sea salted water and slowly increase.
Below are 15 of the most common reasons why you might feel worse, or think you feel worse, after taking magnesium. (I’ve added to this list several times since it was first published.)
Actually it’s not magnesium that’s making you worse but just the way you are taking it or other things you are or aren’t taking along with it or the amount of toxicity in your body. None of this means that magnesium is bad for you. You can think of magnesium – and ReMag – as a food that your body has been deprived of and desperately needs.
1. You’re not taking enough: When people feel worse with magnesium, I believe that the 700-800 enzyme systems that require magnesium just get jump-started and They Want More! Like everyone else, I used to write that magnesium was necessary in 325 enzyme systems but now, according to many researchers that number is more than twice what we previously thought.
In the above statement, my blog reader said she couldn’t take more that 200-300 mg. But all 800 enzyme systems want a piece of the action once they’re been woken up! And with each enzyme system pumping away they are using up the little magnesium you gave them and, like I said, They Want More!
This doesn’t mean that you’ll increase your magnesium ad infinitum! You will reach a saturation point of your magnesium stores and actually be able to decrease your magnesium intake. However, my blog reader isn’t going to get anywhere near the amount she needs if she keeps getting the laxative effect on 200-300mg. And getting the laxative effect so early will prevent her from getting the magnesium she needs to treat her magnesium deficiency symptoms. Some people think they have enough magnesium when they get the laxative effect and try to find other remedies for their symptoms.
That’s one of the main reasons I decided to create and promote Pico-Ionic Magnesium, ReMag. It’s absorbed 100% at the cellular level and has no laxative effect. So you can take as much as you require to eliminate all your magnesium deficiency symptoms. BUT, even with ReMag, if your bowels are “sensitive” just go slowly. Instead of the maintenance dose of 1/2 tsp twice a day or the therapeutic dose of 1-2 tsp twice a day, you can begin with 5-10 drops a day and take it with food. Then you increase by 10 drops every 2-3 days. To determine your magnesium saturation point, you can get a Magnesium RBC test through Request A Test. The range is usually given as 4.2-6.9 mg/dL; the optimum level is between 6.0-6.5mg/dL. It’s not the definitive magnesium test but it’s something that you can use to follow your magnesium saturation.
2. You’re taking too much: You can also feel worse on magnesium if you take too much, too soon. This usually happens if you have adrenal fatigue and weakness from magnesium deficiency. Anyone in this category should start very slowly on any new supplement or drug. If you take a high dose of magnesium right from the start it’s like using muscles that powered a bicycle and expect them to power a jet. Your body might just be so weak that revving up 800 enzyme systems all at once makes you feel jangled and even anxious or depressed because you don’t know what’s going on. Please try to understand that this may actually mean that you really do need more magnesium. Start with one quarter of the recommended dose of magnesium and work up as your body adapts.
3. You have low blood pressure from long-standing magnesium deficiency and adrenal fatigue. You may have heard that magnesium can lower your BP so you worry about that happening when your BP is already low. Here’s what is likely happening: Magnesium deficiency can cause an under-active autonomic nervous system leading to low blood pressure and poor circulatory system performance. This is another instance where you must begin by supplementing at about one quarter the recommended dose of magnesium and slowly build up. The other minerals offered in ReMyte are important in this case as well to support adrenals and thyroid and improve potassium levels.
4. You’re on heart medications and as your health conditions improve, your meds are becoming “toxic.” That’s because you may not require them anymore! Check with your doctor when you are using magnesium to treat health conditions and want to wean off your meds. For example, magnesium helps lower blood pressure. If you continue to take the same amounts of BP meds, your BP might get too low. This is not a “side effect” of magnesium. It’s a side effect of taking drugs when you don’t need them. Magnesium balances blood pressure. If you have low BP to begin with and are not on meds, start magnesium very slowly because, as I describe in #2, you want your body to slowly adapt to a mineral you may have been deficient in for a long time.
5. You’re on fluoridated medications that bind up your magnesium and make you deficient even when you’re taking magnesium. See a list of fluoridated medications at the Fluoride Toxicity Research Collaborative. Many common drugs are fluoridated: Prozac, Paxil, Lipitor, Cipro, Diflucan to name a few.
6. You’ve started taking iodine (in doses above the RDA) that speeds up your metabolism giving you heart palpitations that has nothing to do with magnesium deficiency. Even people who take low dose iodine without taking enough magnesium and selenium can run into iodine toxicity problems. ReMyte has the proper amounts of iodine and selenium, as well as zinc, manganese and copper to support the thyroid.
7. You’re taking too much Vitamin D: Here’s what happens. You feel great on your magnesium and then you begin to have more magnesium deficiency symptoms after adding a high-dose Vitamin D supplement. Magnesium is required to transform Vitamin D from its storage form to its active form and for many other aspects of Vitamin D metabolism. That means if you take the extremely high doses that allopathic doctors are now recommending you can plummet into magnesium deficiency and not know what the heck is happening. In general, I don’t recommend more than 1,000-2,000 IU of Vitamin D daily for this reason. And never take Vitamin D without magnesium. I’ve written several blogs on this topic trying to sort out what’s going on. Read Too Much Vitamin D? and The Vitamin D Debate.
8. You are taking too much calcium and it’s pushing out your magnesium: Read Why I Hate Calcium to understand why the most prescribed mineral is actually dangerous because it’s causing heart disease in women.
9. You’re taking magnesium and becoming dehydrated because you don’t take any other trace minerals and you don’t drink enough water. Read The Solution for Dehydration and take 1/4 tsp of sea salt in every liter of water you drink. How much water per day? Half your body weight (in lbs.) in ounces of water. ReMyte, mineral and electrolyte formula is the next step in proper mineral balance and an improvement on just using sea salt for mineral balance.
10. Magnesium is getting into your cells and detoxifying chemicals and heavy metals. Sometimes this can feel like a healing reaction. The symptoms can be an increase in muscle pain, joint pain and even skin rashes. That’s why I recommend that you build up your dosage of magnesium slowly as the cells detoxify and are finally able to work efficiently.
11. You have IBS, which is a sensitivity of the lining of the gut or you are very toxic ((with heavy metals, medications, bad diet, yeast overgrowth (see #15)) and even ReMag gives you symptoms because it’s trying to help you detox. ReMag goes directly into the cells and will cause the muscles to relax and that can cause diarrhea. That’s why I try to “warn” people with “health conditions” to go slowly on ReMag for all the many reasons I’ve cited.
12. You’re taking a magnesium glutamate or aspartate. I warn against taking these forms of magnesium in my blog Glutamates in Magnesium Chelates. According to neurosurgeon, Dr. Russell Blaylock, glutamate and aspartate can break down into individual amino acids and act as renegade neurotransmitters.
13. You are taking high doses of magnesium and not getting enough calcium in your diet. I talk about the need to balance magnesium and calcium by supplementing with about 600mg of magnesium and getting 600mg of calcium in your diet. However many people are on a dairy-free diet and just don’t get enough calcium. If it’s just lactose intolerance, try yogurt or kefir, make bone broth and eat non-lactose raw cheese. If they don’t total 600mg of calcium, take my ReCalcia. Click on my book ReMyte and ReCalcia for more information.
14. You are taking thyroid medication and you suddenly feel you are taking too much (increased pulse, feeling hot, hyperactive). The magnesium in ReMag and the 9 thyroid minerals in ReMyte can “wake up” your thyroid so that it begins to make its own thyroid hormone and you don’t require as much (or any) thyroid hormone anymore. (Be sure to check with your doctor and wean off slowly.)
15. Your Immune System kicks in and tried to kick out yeast. If you have yeast overgrowth and your newly activated immune system is trying to get it under control, you can experience some yeast die off. You may develop a rash, itchy skin, itchy ears, a coated tongue, changes in your bowel movements, or vaginitis. Please read my book ReSet The Yeast Connection to learn about how to implement my Yeast Detox Protocol.
Carolyn Dean MD ND
The Doctor of the Future®
RESOURCES: Along the borders and in the links of my web site you can find my books, writings, and my call-in radio show. Email your questions to: questions@drcarolyndeanlive.com.
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Dr. Carolyn Dean is a medical doctor and naturopath. She’s the author of over 35 books including best seller The Magnesium Miracle along with IBS for Dummies, Hormone Balance, Death by Modern Medicine, and 110 Kindle books. In 2011, she launched RnA ReSet and brought her 50 years of experience into her proprietary, unique formulations that give every individual at any stage of wellness or illness the necessary building blocks for sustained health, vitality and well-being.
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Thought this might help some people understand magnesium and it’s effects for floxies.
Barbara
It’s my understanding that drugs like Cipro damaged our mitochondria ….. leached the magnesium out of mitochondria, Recovery depends on replenishing our mitochondria. Since being floxed and recovering, I’ve had identical symptoms from a statin after five months and then doxycycline. All three damage mitochondria. Cipro initiated my depletion and now a huge assortment of meds will do the same in varying degrees. Apparently propofol is not recommended for people who have been floxed. Is this assessment I’ve been given same as yours in terms of understanding what happened to us?
So what I have understood is that the mitochondria are not only damaged but also the mitochondrial DNA is damaged meaning bad mitochondria will continue to be regenerated.
And what I now know is that things that cause oxidative stress including excessive exercise will potentially damage the mitochondria more leading to a visitors cycle of oxidative stress and mitochondria damage.
This is what I think happened to me a few weeks ago and triggered a massive flare up as I was doing really good until then.
So I’ve stopped doing exercise. I think it’s ok to do walks etc and maybe a few light weights but I’ve stopped doing running.
David…………. What is Floxing? https://www.myquinstory.info/what-is-an-fq-adr/?fbclid=IwAR0QZXlnwW4hqSTT932H5E1nkY0WZBMa5XCssbwYrMaAu5Ac06c5UX6WkFs
John, thanks for your feedback about my skin! I don’t have any skin peeling at all. I had used the word “peeing” a lot. BUT yes my skin is really acting up. I got nummular eczema from having a skin growth cut out 2 years out from floxing. I have nice olive skin that never had any skin problems all of my 64 years!! Now wounds are irritated and take forever to heal and I have dry itchy skin with dry itchy “spots” on my hands. This all came on after this eczema was triggered by that procedure. I’m thinking my collagen matrix was comprised from floxing which from what I know is a common symptom and result from floxing??? Not sure what to do for it??? It concerns me that my wounds (simple little scratches) heal so very slowly!
Hi Dee,
Sorry to hear about your skin problems. Have you tried Aloe Vera? It contains vitamins A B C E, enzymes, polysaccharides, amino acids, sugars and minerals. It could help with your eczema and wound healing. xx
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324228&ved=2ahUKEwiXiIWU8aLsAhWHx4UKHeVIDc4QFjACegQIBxAE&usg=AOvVaw1mM7GYLueMonoimT8VznIc
Dee don’t know if this will work. But I googled natural remedies for eczema.
Hi Dee,
I think getting all the toxins out of your body is the first step to overcome the Floxie effects. The problems isn’t just the last antibiotic you took that makes you feel compromised, it is all the toxins that have accumulated in your body on the surface of all your cells over your whole life. Once you hit a certain amount, the destruction exceeds the repairs your body can do. I found Borax to be verily effective in removing all toxins. It started to show benefits after about two weeks. Nine months later all feelings of being a Floxie just stopped and the healing process increased an order of magnitude.
Google Borax for your health. As Borax is a detergent this sounds just crazy but chemically it is the strongest antioxidant that our bodies can tolerate. Antibiotics are strong oxidants and do oxidative damage. Removing them is essential. In addition to antibiotics, Pesticides, herbicides, fungicides etc also stay in our bodies and do damage. All this stuff needs to be removed. The Borax molecule attaches to the larger Molecule of these toxic compounds. It draws their electrons to it, weakening the carbon to carbon bonds elsewhere. When enough Borax is attached to the toxin it breaks into pieces and now passes out through your urine or stools.
It took me 2 and half years to figure this out but less than a year to then overcome being a Floxie. So after 3 years I am not a Floxie anymore.
Now I have to heal the damage.
When you become a Floxie you start a journey of destruction. Things just keep going downhill. You may help one thing but the distraction continues across the board until you stop the destruction by removing all toxins. Then things start going uphill. The repair rate keeps increasing.
Borax removes all toxins. Magnesium foot soaks just remove the Fluroquinolones. The foot soaks work very quickly but you still have to remove every thing else (with Borax).
As I read this site, I see all kinds of other removal strategies put forward. Borax only takes a year…and I had to be a severe case as the destruction Brought me close to death 5 times in 5 different ways. I haven’t seen another strategy that is a thorough as Borax. Some are more intense and more difficult to tolerate. Borax is cheap and easy to do.
Well, I’ll respond to other posts on other treatments separately.
LOL
John Taylor The Healthy Truth.
Hi John,
Interesting post. I would caution about detoxing, this needs to be done very carefully as to much at a time can make you feel quite ill. I think its good to detox as long as you do it slowly and with care. I have read other floxies say this.
I recently had some more ozone therapy and I had a massive detox on the first and third session. I felt extremely ill and couldn’t stop shivering, also my urine was brown. After a day I fully recovered and felt great. I didn’t go for any more ozone after the third one because I couldn’t go through that again. Ive had ozone in the past with only a mild herx, or detox, but this time it was different. Our bodies change all the time, and maybe this was a factor. I just wanted to mention this in case it happens to anyone else so they will know what is happening and they will be okay.
Dee,
I re read your post after responding.
I had dry scaly skin for a while. It kept peeling the top layer off over and over again. It helped to remove age spots and other thing as my skin kept replacing itself. However the itching had to go and I realized Topical Magnesium Chloride helped. Then I had sore back muscles and realized MgCl helped. Topical was messy and I needed to do it frequently. So, I added it to my foot soak and soaked daily For hours at a time to raise the Mg CL overall. It took several weeks before I brought my MgCl level up to get rid of the sore back muscles. It also improved the balancing muscles in my right leg and MY SKIN.
I have had eczema for 50 years. No more. I think three things gave it the bump’ s rush. My Vitamin D levels increased from 5 to 30 and I am sleeping very deeply very often. Exposing the eczema to a UVB sun lamp is required as it make Vitamin D right in that area. I eat coconut until my skin feels oily. 6 spoonfuls a day to start. I also rubbed wet MgCl salt directly on the eczema. Every so often the top layer would get soft and I’d rub off about an 1/8” of the callus. It took 2 months of raising MgCl with daily foots soaks to raise the salt level and in those two months the eczema disappeared.
Slow wound healing is a symptom of diabetes. If your fasting glucose level is above 110, that should be addressed anyway. But wound healing is also slowed by inadequate Vitamin D and magnesium. As these two are flushed out our bodies by Fluroquinolones, I suspect that.
Hope this helps you.
LOL
John Taylor The Healthy Truth.
John Taylor…… Comment on this. PEMF (PEMF stands for Pulsed Electromagnetic Field) PEMF among many other things/benefits will kill bacteria. For those who are new to it and have not heard about PEMF before … https://www.drpawluk.com/education/magnetic-science/new-pemf-start/
I add this because it very well could be a replacement for drugs/antibiotics for many. I use PEMF regularly.
There is also light therapy from light bulbs, light panels and Cold Laser instruments. All these use the light spectrum of red and/or infrared light.
Just bringing up alternatives to PILLS.
Don M,
I don’t have direct experience with PEMF But I can tell you a little about its mechanism. It moves electrons around. Violently enough shall we say so it will facilitate chemical restructuring. Restructuring destroys the toxins you want to remove. It also must destroy things you want to keep but we rebuild those things and the treatment is well studied and adjusted to minimize this.
For bacteria I use high doses of Vitamin C 3-5000 milligrams daily. If I get cut, I soak the wound in Vodka. That kills bacteria on contact. It soaks through the skin so it deep cleans. Even though I still am diabetic, aggravated by Cipro, any wound heals in a matter of days – no bacteria.
For viruses I use L-Lysine and zinc. I also eat coconut oil – 2 to 6 spoonfuls daily. 2 every day regardless. 6 when I think I may have a virus. Coconut oil is antiviral and removes moles from your skin. Borax is also theoretically very effective for viruses. I am sure these things have helped me avoid CV19 even though I am 72 living in a compromised body until 6 weeks ago and I risk CV19 exposure every day as I drive for LYFT. I have not contracted it yet.
I am glad PEMF works. I would like to know how it compares to Borax. If you still are a Floxie a year after using it, give the Borax a try. If it cured you from being a Floxie in 3 months then that is a big step forward and probably worth the cost if one can afford it.
So I’d like to hear more about your experience.
LOL
John Taylor. The Healthy Truth
John Taylor……… Have you looked at the Bob Beck Protocol? https://www.bobbeck.com/pdfs/beck-protocol-handbook.pdf
His theory is based on PEMF. Electrocute the bad bugs. Bacteria are more subject to the pulsed electric currents than human cells.
John Taylor…… I am about to embark on your method of eliminating being toxed. I am not sure at 86 and after over 30 years of being foxed that I can really eliminate it all but it is sure worth a try because nothing else has helped me turn the corner.
Hi Don M,
If you have been a Floxie for 30 years, it is the other antibiotics and biocides holding you back.
Cipro has a natural half life of 56 week or 5 years to reach 3%. Of course if you eat meat you are acquiring more all the time.
Azithromycin has a half of over 10 years. Essentially it never leaves.
Borax is the easiest way I a know to remove it. I’d would like to hear how long it takes you to feel any benefit. For me it was 2 weeks.
I think,if you follow the protocol you will live to be 100 at least.
Good luck. I am putting 10/26 on my calendar.
LOL
John Taylor
John Taylor……….. My last association with a Fluoroquinolone was 3 years ago. I thought it was the flu and ended up feeling so bad that I went to the ER. There it was determined that I had a UTI and immediately the ER doctor ordered an IV bag with Levaquin in it. 500 mg. Using the ruse of “possible pneumonia” I was kept and admitted to the hospital. I say ruse because my PC later said that the problem was because I have a slight case of COPD. For the next 30 hours blood was drawn every 4 hours. After the draw I would receive a drink and a pill. Finally after being woke up at 3 AM for another blood draw I said “what the he** is going on”! This brought 4 more people into the room to calm and deal with the unruly old man. I was informed that what they were trying to do was to raise my “magnesium” level because it was low. The frequent blood draws were because they didn’t want me to have to much magnesium. I then informed them that I would be leaving the hospital by 8 AM with or without discharge orders. I made good on my word. I came home and started by regimen of Cipro and Amoxicillin concomitantly which I took for the next 10 days. Yes I stopped the UTI. I have kept Cipro and Amoxicillin (curtesy of a cooperative doctor) at home incase of a UTI emergency.
Through some “expert” lab work by a friend I found that I actually had a compound UTI infection. EColi and Enterococcus. The Cipro (contrary to all the doctors beliefs) would not kill off the (gram positive) Enterococcus. They would seesaw me back and forth between the 2 antibiotics which would never kill off either of the bugs. I asked why not both at the same time? They would not agree to this but eventually I did it anyway and it worked.
It was not until this last episode had transpired that I went to the Internet and began to read the truth about Fluoroquinolones. I finally had some answers to the things that had been going on for many years. Answers that I had never heard from a doctor. I realized that I was floxed. Since the Levaquin things have gotten progressively worse.
I need to turn things around!!!
Yes……… The bottom line is that I have done it to myself because of my ignorance and trust in doctors.
Don M,
Fluroquinolones are removed by soaking your feet in Saturated Epsom salts. Adding Magnesiun Chloride is even better. You Want to do this 15 minutes a day for at least fours days. However, since you are now a Floxie all the other antibiotics and roundup you taken or ingested free with your food must be removed. This is done with a daily once of Borax in water. It will take a while 8 to,10 months.
Doctors don’t know everything and their protocol,did not kill the infection.Yours did. You are not dumb but alive. Now you need to take the antidote which the doctors don’t know either.
Thank God
For Lisa’s blog. \
John Taylor
Hi all
I’d just like to follow-up from my post last week and say I am now almost 100% confident that what has caused my flare up was B6 toxicity.
I can’t believe that I’ve had both floxing and B6 toxicity but it has to be true.
Reason I say this is because I stopped all my B supps and within a week I am back at my baseline where I was a month ago and feeling like I was nearing the end of this.
So it could be a coincidence but I’ve done some research on this now and it seems to be another epidemic a la floxing.
There are people on FB groups reporting poly neuropathies with real low doses. UK had the upper limit as 10mg/day for supps and other places at 25mg/day.
Yet otc supps have doses as high as 100mg (what I was taking at times) alternetimg sometimes with 50mg p-5-p.
I just don’t believe this… but at the same time I’m glad I’ve figured it out.
So I’m going for low B6 diet and won’t be touching any B6 for now. I will take my B12 though.
Be aware everyone.
At this point I’m assuming I have some sort of metabolic ‘abnormality’ in one of my detox pathways that predisposed me to the Floxing and the B6 mild toxicity
I’m sorry about your B6 toxicity. I have long heard that up to 50 mg. a day is safe for most people, but you might indeed have a metabolic abnormality in that way. We are all so different, and sadly what works for one might not for another. I’m concerned that some practitioners, like Trudy Scott, nutritionist, says that B6 in the low hundreds is safe; I’m not at all sure it is. Overdose can lead to neuropathy. I think B6 is the only B vitamin that can be dangerous in overdose. Hard to believe that upper dose might be as low as 10 mg/day, but some people might truly have to go that low.
Thanks. Yeah it’s a funny one. Obviously some people are more susceptible than others. But that’s the whole thing with floxing too right? Just because it’s “rare” doesn’t mean it’s not a real problem for many people. And more so than we think. Facebook groups are full of people saying they’ve had B3 toxicity. I was probably averaging around 50mg day for about a year which you would think was so much ….
John Taylor, how much borax to how much water do you use each day? Do you drink it slowly throughout the day? Any side effects from borax? I’m assuming it is a small amount so probably pretty safe? Is there a point when you know you can stop drinking it? Any signs of improvement etc?? I am over 3 years out and “mostly” recovered except for this damn eczema that developed a year ago! I wish I could get that to go away! Argh!!!
Hi Dee,
I put two teaspoons in a quart of water and chug 1 ounce Daily. As it removes all organic chemistry, I take it first thing in the morning and wait until 8 PM for all my supplements. It took me 9 months to remove all the toxins. There are no sign effects except it can remove the supplementation. I just felt better after two weeks and I felt fully Floxie free after 8 months.
Now being Floxie free I find the repair rate with supplements is 10 times faster. Too fast For some things for the Vitamin D and Magnesium to keep up. I am still experimenting with my protocol to deal with this. I need to balance three things. Supplements to lower blood glucose below 170, Borax to remove toxins – removing azithromycin lowers blood glucose, and thyroid booster which raises blood glucose. Right now I do not take Borax or the thyroid supplement. I am waiting for the glucose supplements to drive the readings below 170 and see if a glucose stabilizes at a new lower Number. So after waiting 8 days the glucose is going down. When it stabilizes lower, then I will start the Borax Only again. I want see of Borax drives the glucose lower, If not, then I don’t need Borax for repairs. When the Borax effect steadies out I will take one thyroid pill. One pill has been driving up my blood glucose 36 points in 16 days. I will start the Borax without other supplements and see the effect on my glucose.If It drives it lower, I know I still need to remove Azithromycin. I have been cycling the thyroid and diabetes Supplements for 10 months now. I am up to 1/14th the normal dose and my thyroid is getting better.
I don’t have eczema any more. Eating Coconut oil, raising my vitamin D level, using a sun lamp on the eczema spot, and rubbing the spot with MgCl And coconut oil I think Is responsible for that. Every once in awhile 1/8 layer of callus just rubs off.
Raising your Vitamin D level is too complicated for blog writing. It takes 50 pages in the book to get to that point. That is why I wrote the book. Overall the book has 92 pages of instructions.
Best Wishes,
John Taylor The Healthy Truth
Dee…………. Get the book. Most everything that you might ask is already answered there. Download the kindle reader for computers and then download the book to your computer. You can then refer to it anytime you want.
Sharing this with colleagues.
John Taylor – thank you for the comments and advice. One question, why not take Boron via trace minerals rather than Borax?
Fred S,
Good question.
Here is where the English language fails to speak in Chemistry. I do not know specifically enough what “Boron via trace minerals” means. So I can’t look at a specific compound to form an opinion. Don’t take this personally it is a problem chemists often face. If you watch chemists talk they often will make drawings or use calculations to explain an idea. There are a handful of boron containing minerals with other elements Sodium, Magnesium, Iron to choose from. Most of these have larger chemical structures Which plays a role in reaction rates. To find one potentially better than borax could take me 8 hours or so. Borax was recommended to me by my Natural Doctor And I googled 3 or 4 articles to get a handle on the chemistry and why it works. Honestly, it would be nice to find something that works faster and still is safe. Borax takes 8 to 12 months to remove the azithromycin you have accumulated over a life time of eating turkey sandwiches. But faster is going in the direction of more toxic.
A lethal dose of Borax is about 1/7th of a box if consumed in a few days. The dosage recommended is two spoonfuls in 30 days. You can feel a reduction in the Floxie feeling immediately but it took 2-3 weeks before I saw a reduction in my blood glucose level from removing azithromycin. I thought about uping the dosage to three spoonfuls per month, but thought that is arrogant and risky to think I could improve on the recommendation like the authors never though of that. Yeah don’t qget stuck on yourself.
Maybe combined with another mineral it would work faster but I doubt it…and Borax is cheap, readily available, and easy to use. Here is why I think that it would be tough to beat.
The Boron atom In water is an acid, very powerful and will destroy Double bonds and cut chemistry into pieces. It has three positive sites to attract electrons and they are as close to the nucleus as is possible. The problem is it will destroy cells and their components also very quickly. It has a very high attraction for electrons. This is why it is so destructive. It is a toxin. A bottle of Boric acid says NOT FOR INTERNAL USE. We use it to clear eye infections as an eye wash and you are supposed to rinse your eye afterwards.
Borax mutes this attraction with a double bond structure of 4 boron atoms and 7 oxygen atoms that allows the electrons to circulate anywhere. The boron atoms being so strongly negative draws the electrons to it. They hang out at the Boron nucleus longer – muting the positive attractive force.
Well, the other Mineral compounds Include Magnesium and calcium which could have double bond ring structures but I couldn’t find any structures on-line. They were all larger. Larger is less soluble. Borax has 4 positive Sites. One will attach at a double bond site And the other three are available to attract water and be soluble. Now smaller Is really better as you want the soluble part to pull On the chemical you are trying to remove and break it apart. At that point Azithromycin or Roundup is no longer Toxic and it is game over.
So why does borax selectively destroy these chemicals and not other cells. The toxic chemicals are much bigger. The human body doesn’t need to make things this big. Plus these chemicals are attached to the surface of our cells. So the borax will see them first.
Well, the book is not filled with this detail of chemistry. There recommendations are supported by references where you may find some of this to support the experimental findings. Rather the book focuses the various cures need to progress through recovery path. First is to remove the toxins, then to rebuild. The rebuilding has a sequence and chemistry/supplement to rebuild are wasted if taken out of sequence. Plus sign posts so you know when to increase of stop a supplement. As you repair your body back to the original design, you lose weight and will eat less. The savings by not taking supplement long term and eating were more useful calories pay for the book many times over as you eliminate diabetes caused by Fluroquinolones a bad have a more productive life. Once you.have removed a lifetime of toxins, repairs occur 10,times faster with 1/4 of the supplements. Any of these finding are novel and not in the public discussion. They are powerful and should be further supported by University research.Diabetes and arterial sclerosis top the list for funding.
I hope this answers you question. The blog has caused me to add chapters and improve the content so a second edition is in the works including a paperback version. It is now a amazon ebook kindle Version.
LOL<
John Taylor The healthy truth
John Taylor. I looked back in your comments and I see that out of the 2 teaspoons per quart of water you take “1 ounce” per day. I had not started the borax yet so I’m glad I clarified that before I drank too much!
Dee,
Glad you didn’t try to eat two teaspoons of Borax. I suspect it wouldn’t stay down.
John Taylor The Healthy Truth.
Thank you. It’s hard for me to get past the fact that borax is a cleaning product used for decades and it is now being suggested as a product to ingest. Not criticizing – just hard for me personally.
Fred S,
I think your reluctance is natural. When my natural doctor told me to take Borax, I had similar fears. However, he saved my life with his advice, and has helped me solve about half the problems I encountered while working to get over being a Floxie, so Basically I trust him and would give any recommendation a shot.
At first I could not use it as it aggravated my ulcer. However when I knew I had to remove azithromycin before it killed me. My blood sugar was 280 and I was losing my eye site and my feet were close to ulcerating Which would lead to amputation. So I started doing research on how to remove azithromycin. The product literature said it effectiveness is reduced with Aluminum+++. Nice, that is toxic so your not going to take it anyway and everything that contained Al+++ has been take off the market. So I looked at the periodic table for suggestions and that let to Borax. As my ND had earlier recommended this I gave it whirl. 8 months later I am not a Floxie.
Thanks for directing me to that article. It says boron is a trace element we need. Borax will not provide boron to the our bodies. It has reacted and is part of a compound that is not going to release it easily. I work to solve problems only. If I push up on a problem I can’t solve, I’ll check more about the role of Boron. By the way Arsenic is a required trace element too. I’d be hesitant to take it. There is a book “Arsenic and Old Lace” . Old Lace is a wine and the people in this house wanted to off and old man. So they put Arsenic in the wine. He got healthier and lived a lot longer. Still I am not tying it.
While slow, I think Borax is a good choice for removing all the other classes of anti-biotics and Roundup.
I love this blog. it has helped me a lot and is still teaching me things.
John Taylor
Found this online – interesting. At the end of the article it mentions taking a boron supplement in lieu of borax.
https://www.earthclinic.com/remedies/borax.html
Fred,
I am not sure a or maybe I should say I would guess a Boron supplement would not be as effective in dissolving the toxic chemicals off the surface of our cells. Borax has a positive ion that is directed out Into the water phase when another boron atom attaches to the chemical. A mineral supplement is more likely to chelate or Permanently bond with other Negative sites on a different molecule and not be soulabe. That means it would only remove chemistry in solution .. turn it into a powder as opposed to attacking the chemistry on the surface of the cell.
John Taylor. I thought you said to put 2 teaspoons of borax in a quart of water per day? Your last response said 2 spoonfuls per month?? Could you clarify please?
Don has done this well below but I’ll give it another go.
Dissolve 2 teaspoons in a quart of water.
Drink on ounce of this solution every day.
In 32 days you will have taken the 2 teaspoons.
From the book……….Removal Protocol Dissolve two teaspoons of Borax in a quart of water. Drink an ounce daily.
Taylor, John. The Healthy Truth: Supplements and Dosage Signposts Used to Repair my Cipro Damage with Implications for Chemo Fatigue, Diabetes, Heart Fatigue, Weight Loss, Arthritis, Tendonitis… (pp. 21-22). Kindle Edition.
Don – have you tried the protocol? Thanks
Fred S……….. I am working on it but not very far into it yet so I can’t say much about success yet.