Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




20,616 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Andrea January 7, 2019 at 5:05 pm Reply

    Anyway, we’re all different, if it worked for you, that’s good 🙂

  2. Flox January 8, 2019 at 12:28 am Reply

    Is there anyone healing his depression and brainfog with healing his leaky gut ?

    • Attsy January 9, 2019 at 2:16 pm Reply

      Hi Flox, that’s me. I am depressed and have bad diarrhea, have to follow very strict diet. If I do mistake I can be sure to have problems. The diet include eating sweet potatoes, rice, chicken meat (only boiled), normal potatoes, sometimes boiled apple, banana, boiled eggs.
      I don’t know how to deal with depression, the only thing I do is that I force myself to “be in a good mood and not to think about it”, I use L-tyrosine which seems to elevate my mood a bit. I spend a lot of time alone, I do have people who talk to me regularly but I don’t talk about my problems with them anymore. I do understand that they don’t understand how something could damage your life to this extent, I would probably not understand it either.
      Honestly I feel like a walking poison :/. I could do so many things before and I have never appreciated them. Sometimes I think I deserve all of this, sometimes I am angry with myself.
      Now I am using magnesium again and hope it will get better.
      So how are you? How long have you been floxed?

      • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 2:32 pm Reply

        Ehi Attsy, just wanted to tell you that I can relate to everything you wrote. That’s very deep, and exaclty how I feel

      • Bob January 9, 2019 at 4:18 pm Reply

        Actually I can’t think of any reason you would not be depressed at this point. 500 mg of GABA may help your mood some. Also if you have bowel problems don’t take magnesium citrate, take another form. Your body is obviously trying to detox. I would try daily celery juice on an empty stomach in the morning and some liver helping foods like wild blueberries and garlic, maybe some aloe vera for your stomach.

        • Attsy January 17, 2019 at 2:24 pm

          Hi Bob, thanks for your tip! I had to google GABA, never heard about it before. Will try it after I stop with my bladder treatment. Thanks again :).

      • Flox January 10, 2019 at 10:58 am Reply

        Hi Attsy,
        Iam 20 months out but still have cns problems like brainfog, depression, dizzyness and alot of vision problems

        • Attsy January 17, 2019 at 2:22 pm

          Flox, not a good new for me, I am now 7 months and also have bad depression but can’t take antidepressants at all (I took them for a few years before because of my suspected IBS – but maybe I have IBS, not sure with this – but no help for my stomach with these pills, it was just worse and then I was addicted to benzos because no one warned me that I can’t take them for so long), that’s why I avoid all these psychiatric pills although would be happy to get some antidepressants with no side effects and good results.
          I am sorry you still have it 20 months after, is there anything you do with your depression??

        • L January 17, 2019 at 3:27 pm

          Just as well you cannot take antidepressants. Just more toxic overload. If you didn’t see my earlier post, do a search of turmeric (95% curcuminoids) for depression.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 4:35 am

          Attsy,did your doc give you antidepressivants for IBS? But,besides from mixing up things,he’s mentally oké? Oh,sorry,my mistake;it wasn’t an IBS;it was a SUSPECTED IBS.Science based medicin at it’s best: “I suspect”,”It might be..” and “let’s try this medicine,and when it doesn’t work, we”ll try another one”.

          The safest things for depression are:

          Magnesium.Probably the main cause of depression is a magnesium defficiency.Vit. B-complex is a second one to try.

          Cheer yourself up by humming,whistling,singing,just by doing things,you do when you’re in a good mood.Research has shown that,by doing this,your body starts producing the hormones that fit to a good mood.I use this method for many years,long before science discovered that it works,and it really does.

          Taking walks,preferably with good weather,and in a natural surrounding,but if that’s not possible any walk will help.Working in a garden,with your hands in the earth does great things as well.

          Close every day with thinking about the good and possitive things which happened that day.Depressed people fill their heads with negative thoughts and easily forget about the good things that happen.Sometimes these are only small things,but they can help to take the place of these black thoughts.It’s called cognitive therapy and it’s the only proven therapy psychiatry has.But they didn’t discover it themselves;it’s common knowledge;people knew this for many centuries (but they didn’t ask money for it ;-))

          Most people with IBS are over-sensitive for wheat,and/or other carbs.On the web there’s lot of info about this;search for “IBS diet” and “IBS regimen”;that might help you.

        • Virginia January 19, 2019 at 7:35 pm

          If it’s OK to ask, why can’t you take anti-depressants? I know Benzos are addictive, but SSRIs aren’t. I had to give up SSRIs last year because my endocrinologist suspected they were causing my mysterious bone fractures (3 in one year). I think her theory was true because it’s been 1 1/2 years, and no more fractures. I’ve had some close calls, with my foot twice feeling like another stress fracture, but MRI showed it didn’t actually break. For some bizarre reason, post-menopausal women who’ve been on SSRIs a long time can get mysterious fractures with no trauma. Not even my psychiatrist knew this, but the studies look pretty solid. It’s a rare, but nasty side effect which has been terrible for my mood. SSRIs really did help me, and beyond some early side effects (which went away), I responded well to them. I am now trying Turmeric (95% curcuminoids) which I’ve read can work as well as SSRIs. I’m also trying 5-HTP, a natural anti-depressant. I’ve had to go off both for months due to intractable stomach pain, but hope to return to them soon as I think they were helping some, though not as well as SSRIs. I think there is a place for prescription anti-depressants, even though I would always give natural remedies a fair chance first.

      • Attsy January 22, 2019 at 9:34 am Reply

        Hi Virginia and Henk,
        just to put it in time order. It was 12 years ago when I decided to visit psychiatrist by my own will, not because chemical imbalance but because I went through some trauma. I didn’t want talk therapy, I was pretty active but also introverted so I wanted some quick solution. I heard people tolerate antidepressants well so I wanted them. The first type I took for one year, I thought they would make me happy but I was surprised how they worked, I slept around 12 – 14 hours every day, so I became completely passive person but it helped me to forget the incident or made it weaker. Then I got off them without problems, unfortunately then it all started, I started to have constipation and diarrhea, hair loss and rash around my body. It was new for me so I asked the doctor and was told it was maybe because of stress, so visited psychiatrist again and got another antidepressant and then another type and then another type, for unknown reason they stopped working for me altogether (maybe because I was not depressed anymore) but didn’t help with my stomach problems (actually made it far worse). My immune system became very weak every time I was on antidepressants, I caught high fever and infection every month. After like 3-4 years I stopped with them. I was also diagnosed with Hashimoto during that time.
        And again my stomach problems still persisted, so I was given benzos (for my iritable stomach to calm down) and became addicted. When I realized I am addicted I went cold turkey and went through crazy withdrawal and suffered from syncopes. Another psychiatrist tried to help me with this and prescribed me some pure serotonin antidepressants but I got serotonin syndrome after it. I stopped with all benzos and antidepressants altogether. Unfortunately my stomach problems got worse and worse. So I finally decided to visit gastroenterologist (and this is the doctor who gave me Ofloxin for kidney infection I didn’t have). I came to his office and brought home test from drugstore which showed positive for gluten (my brother actually has some food allergies – wheat and lactose- so I thought I would maybe let myself tested). He tested me and yes I am celiac. Unfortunately he was more focused on my kidneys – for some unknown reason he thought I had horseshoe kidney and sand and some other things there, and he gave me two courses of antibiotics. I don’t want to mess with antidepressants anymore. Don’t want to hurt my stomach even more.
        That’s why I blame myself a lot, I could do things differently but now it’s too late.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 22, 2019 at 9:58 am

          Some antidepressivants,like Paroxitin/Paxil/Seroxat are known to cause severe problems in the intestines AFTER you stop using them;people even end up in hospital for this withdrawl symptoms..Why did your psych. decide to give you another one?And another one? Antidepressivants are known to NOT work in most (>99%) people,even the placebo-effect is more effective in tests for most anti-depr.’s. That is,before the company cherry-picks the data.

        • L January 22, 2019 at 10:11 am

          Attsy, please don’t blame yourself. We are taught to trust doctors, and to follow their order. Then on top of that, we have drug companies more concerned with profits than our health. I was on anti-depressants for years. Now I know they are no better than a placebo (published in prominent medical journal The BMJ, Denmark-based researcher Peter C. Gøtzsche contended that taking antidepressants could increase a person’s risk of dying prematurely, that the drugs do little for patients over a placebo) and the old selling point about depression being caused by a chemical imbalance has never actually been proven. I am angry about the effects that doctor’s “care” has had on my life. I took asthma inhalers for decades and was assured that since they went into the lungs directly, the steroids would not harm my bones. Then I was diagnosed in my 40s with osteopenia (step before osteoporosis). Now they admit, YES, then can. I am having major congestion issues that no one can figure out and one ENT says he thinks he could be due to a sinus “window” surgery I had a few decades ago. Guess what? They no longer do that surgery because of too many latent problems. Had I known about naturopathy, I would have gone that route years ago. But please, this is not something to blame yourself for. We trusted what we were told.

    • L January 9, 2019 at 8:46 am Reply

      It is always so infuriating when the advise given is that one “should seek immediate medical care if they experience soreness or inflammation in muscles or tendons, and they should not exercise while the joints are affected. ” Too late! And then the doctors don’t know what the hell to do anyway. (And this quote was from someone associated with the FDA….ugh.) Disturbing to know the gut damage may e permanent.

      • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 2:37 pm Reply

        You’re right!
        If it wasn’t this tragical, I’d find it funny. Yeah right, stop immediately, then go to the doctor who just poisoned you, to listen to his nonsense..Jesus Chirst, the nerve of these fu***rs…

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2019 at 2:42 am

          I did go to my dr. and when I started telling her about the adverse reactions and that I stopped taking the poison after 2 days,and a total of 4 pills,she got angry,almost shouting at me that I should have taken the whole course (10 days,2 x 500 mg/day),and that she NEVER had any complaints about Cipro.And,of course,she never reported any side effects/adverse reactions.

          After I switched from another dr. to her and her partner in practice I told them about how the AB course wit Metronidazole and Amoxiciline went terribly wrong.They looked in my dossier and there was nothing in it about me,reacting badly to one,or both of these AB’s.They made a notation about it,to prohibit me from getting those AB’s in the future.Than,the female dr. prescribed me Cipro,two times.The first time,in 2010,I eventualy didn’t use it,and when she herd that she got angry (very professional,getting angry at a patient for his disobediance,right?),the second time,in 2016,I swallowed 4 pills,and here I am,at Floxiehope.

        • Andrea January 10, 2019 at 2:53 pm

          That’s disgusting Henk. The worst part is that, not only these morons poison us, but they have the audacity to say that it’s not true, or even our fault

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 4:23 am

          That was áfter I had to prove that het earthermometer was showing 1,2 degrees too low,and I did prove that in a convincing way,but two weeks later she tried to use this thermometer on me again.Than she phoned around for more than 1/2 hour because she had just received a letter,telling her that she should nót prescribe Cipro to somebody,already using Flecainide Acetate,and then decided to prescribe in anyway,lowering my Flecainide dose by 50 %;”That might work”.

          Well,it didn’t,and when I tried to tell her that,she reacted angry,like I told;”Never heard any complaint about Cipro”.Scared me of,like she probably did with others.She might have started as a good doc but,through the years,gotten more and more influenced by the Farmafia. She’s still quite caring,and putting a lot of work,helping her patients,and she’s nót a “five minutes per patient”kind of doc,but,in the meantime,she’s arrogant and stupid enough (and,probably,corrupt) to do enormous damage to her patients. And,from what I read her,and hear from people around me;that is the trend.What a world!

        • L January 11, 2019 at 8:45 am

          Reminds me of one of the 12 docs I saw. I went to this female doctor because a friend really liked her. The first time I went she seemed nice enough, and caring. In fact I ran into her at the grocery store…and this was near the beginning of my downward spiral, and told her about all the floaters and how my sense of smell was surreal and I was feeling very panicky. And on top of it, a pulmonologist was pressuring me into this radioactive lung scan. She said it would probably be ok if I waited a bit and that I would be fine. Well of course I got worse and the 2nd time I went to see her I was just a mess, head to toe, and anxiety through the roof. She assured me it couldn’t possibly all be from the cipro (and then wrote in her notes I discovered later rather snarky remarks about how could I possibly think just few pills that I took several weeks ago could cause so much damage.) Turns out she was in the same medical group as the doctor who gave me the cipro and steroids. They were at different addresses, so I didn’t make the connection. Dr Cohen, in his book, has a whole section about his dismay with non-believing doctors, and he even says that anyone who says that a drug can’t continue to do damage long after it is stopped has no knowledge of pharmacology and how it works. Needless to say, I never went back. (well I did go back months later to drop off some reading material for her.)

    • A.Coleman January 10, 2019 at 1:56 pm Reply

      I note that this article talks about aortic tears and dissections. This is where the new legal challenges to FQs are coming from now. I recently tried to join a class action suit and while I met all criteria they refused to include me because they were only focused on heart damage.

      When will enough be enough. If the FDA adds another black box warning for heart damage it will be up to 3 for FQs! This stuff should only be allowed in life threatening situations and should only be given in hospital settings. Shouldn’t even be in a non-hospital pharmacy.

      Personally I wouldn’t take it again even if I was dying.

      • L January 10, 2019 at 2:30 pm Reply

        Neither would I. There is nothing that could induce me to take one of these poisons, after the nightmarish torture I went through, and its continued effects on my life.

        RE the class action…those can take MANY years, and depending on how many are in the suit, the payment to actual defendants can end up being way below what they might have expected. If it is not past your statute of limitations (varies by state/country) I would encourage you to try to find a medical malpractice attorney (esp one specializing in pharmaceutical injuries).

  3. Henk Noordhuizen January 9, 2019 at 2:06 am Reply

    And here an article about research of ancient antibiotics,being mixtures of simple,natural ingredients.The researches tried one and where astonished about the efectivity,even against MRSA:


    The people who developed,and used those old recipies are,by “modern scientists and medics) considered to be quacks.I’s time to understand that those were real medics,and the modern medics are the real quack.

    • L January 9, 2019 at 9:30 am Reply

      In referring to the wine/garlic/leek combo it says “The mixture was to be stored in a brass vessel for at least nine days prior to use” It is fascinating how people discovered this would work as an antibiotic, or how that would be enhanced by the brass vessel, or how many days it would need to sit. Amazing.

  4. Attsy January 9, 2019 at 1:26 pm Reply

    Hi, so I went to urologist and you were all right, nothing is on ultrasound. So now I am following L advice how to cure UTI. So far so good.
    Would you think to undergo cystoscopy is a good idea or no? I still have feeling that something is wrong with my bladder or is it just the poison in the pills which is tricking me? Is there anyone who actually has some visible damage in bladder?

    • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 2:46 pm Reply

      Hi Attsy, I did three exams to see what’s wrong with my bladder. I did a cistoscopy, a Intravenous pyelogram or urogram and urodynamic testing. All these exams are not pleasant, at all. Expecially if you’re a man.But I did them anyway. Keep in mind that with this kind of testing there’s always a chance to get a UTI. The doctors, when I did the cistoscopy, wanted me to take antibiotics “for prevention”. Of course I said, forget about that! I started to take d mannose and cranberry juice everyday for a week prior to the exam, and also soem days later. Luckily, no infection.
      anyway, are you sure to have an UTI right now? have you tested posititve?

      • Attsy January 9, 2019 at 2:57 pm Reply

        Hi Andrea, thanks alot for answer. I am a woman and I read about the procedures so I am aware for the risk to get UTI. Actually I am waiting for the result, I don’t know if I have UTI but I decided to take D mannose, herbs and vitamin C as a prevention anyway and drinking cranberry juice right now :). It’s very possible I don’t have it anymore. I hope to take it as a prevention won’t hurt. Well it’s good to hear you didn’t have anything wrong with your bladder, it gives me some kind of relief to hear this!

        • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 3:36 pm

          Actually there’s a lot wrong with my bladder/urinary tract. The doctors aren’t quite sure (something new, right), but from the tests it looks like I have a urethral stricture and bladder neck that doesn’t “stretch” too well. This is causing some kind of urinary retention and my bladder gets too fool. I don’t want to undergo surgery, first because there’s a very good chance that my symptoms won’t improve with the surgery, ad also because the side effects are miserable. So I’m looking for an alternative method to at least give me a break from this misery. I don’t know how much the fluoroquinolone influenced my situation, but I’m quite sure it did some damage even in that department.
          Oh, sure enough, when I spoke to a a neurologist who is also specialized in urological pathologies (neuro-urologist) he said that there was 0 possibility that my symptoms where realated to the FQ. It was just all in my mind, and I was consuming too much liquid.
          Now that’s a Doctor!

        • Bob January 9, 2019 at 4:23 pm

          Doctor is an A**hole.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2019 at 2:49 am

          There are teststrips you can buy;those are not expensive.Mine are tested in a test with 4 brands,and along,they tested the teststrips dr.’s use.The ones I use proved to be the best,and of equel quality to the teststrips dr.’s use.These test for bacterial activity,blood particles and leukocytes.

      • Attsy January 9, 2019 at 4:16 pm Reply

        Ah Andrea, I am very sorry to hear that, I really hoped that you had it ok :(. Well I actually think your situation was caused at least a bit by these drugs, because they are making things worse. And yes that’s a not surprising that the doctors don’t think it might be related……Sorry Andrea, I really hope your situation would improve! Sending you hugs….

        • Andrea January 9, 2019 at 6:26 pm

          Yeah. I think too. For over a year and a half my urological symptoms were stady. After the FQ, things went downhill. I first developed frequent urination, and after a few months, I developed chronic pelvic pain too. I’m almost sure that all this is caused by some neurological/nerve damage from the FQ. I’ve read of many floxies that developed the same symptoms, even if they never experienced urological problems before.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 6:35 pm

          yes, I mentioned before that I did…and also Lisa I believe. I have read others too. Again, I think at least mine and perhaps others are from flq induced interstitial cystitis. And yeah, that would be the LAST time I saw that doctor! I just spent several months trying to get into seeing an Ear Nose Throat doctor (even though I have already seen one) just because I read on his curriculum vitae, that in addition to all his sterling western medicals creds, he has training in integrative medicine. It was harder than getting in college to see this guy, but I don’t want to go in and have yet another allopath disbelieve or ridicule me. IT was worth it. He read everything I brought in. He looked over all the natural treatments I had done, and nodded in agreement. Now I have to try a pharmaceutical, but he was very clear re no steroids, no fluoride. IT was well worth the trouble to get in to see him. They are few and far between.

        • Andrea January 10, 2019 at 3:55 pm

          L, not only I remember you and others on this website mentioning bladder problems, but also at the hearing, I spoke to at least 2 guys that developed issues in that are. Mine were probably pre existing, but after the FQ everything went downhill.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 4:14 pm

          You know I often think about how any ONE of these issues would be frustrating/depressing/life altering. Yet all of us are dealing with multiple issues. Day in and day out. And the powere that be are so lacking in concern and compassion it boggles the mind. If one of the execs at Bayer or J & J or the FDA, had to deal with ONE of our side effects, then maybe we might see some changes or some actual money spent on trying to figure out how to fix all the “collateral damage.” But they are probably too informed to take any of these poisons they peddle.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 4:47 am

          It’s beyond belief to see that,after the Softenon,and the Vioxx scandell,which both did less damage than the FQ’s,this “worst medication disaster in history” (Dr.Jay Cohen) the only reaction of health officails is: “We’ll put strickter advices on the box”. Easy to understand why this happened:with only advises,and nothing mandated or forbidden,it’s very difficalt,if not impossible,to sue a dr. for prescribing this poison for almost everything.Without first trying an other,safer AB.After my doc told me that she just received a letter to nót prescribe Cipro to patients on Flecainide,she,agai,got angry:”When things go on this way,it won’t take lang before I can’t prescribe any medicines anymore.

          And then she started phoning around for more than 1/2 hour to find backup for her marvelous idea to prescribe the Cipro anyway,lowering the dose of the Flecainide.Without considering for only one second to go for an other AB. Cipro,and the as evil Paroxitine (= Paxil,Xeroxat),are her absolute favorites.

        • L January 11, 2019 at 8:52 am

          That thinking is insane. Just prescribe less of it? How do these people make it through medical school? Every one knows you should not mix ammonium and bleach if you are cleaning (although I would use neither anymore). But using LESS of one, they still will produce toxic fumes.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 9:41 am

          In the period my magnesium defficiency was at it’s worst,me having cardiac arrythmia,several times a day,shortly before being brought to hospital by ambulance,two times in 2 weeks time,the wife of a good friend adviced me to THINK “I have enough magnesium in my body”. This would solve the problem.By the way;untill a month ago she was assistant of a naturopathic Dr.,specialized in helping children,answering the phonecalls,and,if necessary,giving first advices.

          I’ve seen this strange logic in people before,most of them female,and,years ago figured out what,exactly,caused this difference.Than,one day,I suddenly realized that men have an EXACT logic,while females have an ABSTRACT logic.Worst of all;I phoned my friend because,at that moment,I had one of the more severe attacks of this cardiac arrithmia’s,and hoped to get a usefull advise.But she answered the phone,and after her well meant advice I fellt even worse.But there mightl be a reason for this difference in logic,which I still have not been able to find.Some things in life still are a mystery for me.

          What suprised me most was the fact that my doc,not for a second,considered prescribing me another AB,knowing that the combination Cipro/Flecaïnide meant trouble.And later on reacted so angry because I stopped after 4 pills,untill I told her that another doctor adviced me to stop because of the adverse reactions.But still denied having ever heard of adverse reactions,caused by Cipro.These kind of Dr.’s are extremely dangerous!

    • Attsy January 14, 2019 at 2:06 am Reply

      Hi Guys, one more time from me…..my urine is clear after 18 months of struggling! The truth is that I am very very angry with the previous (ex) doctor, because when I gave him the sample last time (June 2017), he didn’t give me any clear instruction how to pee in the cup (I know I accidently touched in the cup), I also was like one day before my period and had cold. But I felt perfectly fine, I had no UTI problem.
      I am angry, I didn’t come to him with my UTI but with colon struggling, he was no urologist but gastroenterologist. Yet he told me I had chronic kidney disease (and put me on two atb), didn’t bother to send me to urologist and gave me the cursed antibiotics. This new doctor told me I don’t have any kidney disease. So if I continued going to the previous doctor, I am dead now, because he was forcing me to continue taking the atb and he diagnosed me incorrectly, also told me he can see sand in my kidney or something like this.
      He would kill me. I can’t believe it. Now I have mysterious bladder problems, which I have never had before.

      • Attsy January 14, 2019 at 2:06 am Reply

        sorry, June 2018

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 14, 2019 at 3:44 am Reply

        That doc has got sand in his eyes,and in his head as well.How do this kind of (dangerous!) idiots get a doctor’s license?

        • Attsy January 14, 2019 at 8:48 am

          Yes and he was a man, I believed him, I am stupid for believing him, I always had my doubt, but still followed his adivce….at least now I know, when something does not sound right to me to find another doctor or get second opinion at least.

      • L January 14, 2019 at 10:36 am Reply

        I think our collective anger at (past) doctors could power the world’s energy. It is just so preventable and so infuriating. The doctor who gave me the cipro along with prednisone—it was the FIRST time I ever saw him! I needed a doctor and chose him because of great on line reviews.

        Well glad you finally went to someone else. And many of us have had bladder issues post floxing, including urine retention, pain and pressure, increased frequency. The only thing that helped me was acupuncture (temporary relief when it was really bad—which at times felt like crushed glass inside me) and Chinese herbs that my acupuncturist mixed for me which helped longer term. Over the course of a couple years, I used those one and off maybe 3 or 4 times. I no longer (for now!) have pain, but still have a bit of a retention problem. I still believe that it is interstitial l cystitis brought on by the cipro.

        • Attsy January 17, 2019 at 2:18 pm

          yes L….I hope so.
          You are lucky that you found a doctor who was able to diagnose interstitial cystitis, but sadly there is no immediate cure. I have similar symptoms as you, I need to pee quite a lot, weird pressure, urine retention, I have never had it before but now it’s better. I am still not able to find a doctor who would believe floxin ATB could do the damage to this extent although they believe I am highly allergic and I finally found a person who studied dietology and she knows you can be badly poisoned by pills.
          I went to the homeopathic shop and one lady there helped with the herb mix (thanks for your tip) so let’s see if it works.

        • L January 17, 2019 at 3:26 pm

          that really gets me when they say you were allergic. Not allergic, poisoned. Not sure your herbalist will give you the same thing as TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) but I hope it helps.

      • Bob January 19, 2019 at 11:25 am Reply

        Sue the incompetent bastard.

  5. Doug January 9, 2019 at 4:13 pm Reply

    So sorry for you and everyone here affected. Re Depression, I had to get on an anti-depressant, it has certainly helped me cope with the problems.

    • L January 9, 2019 at 6:27 pm Reply

      Have to be careful with those as well. Many contain fluoride.

      I had been on antidepressants for decades and just wanted to stop (this was before cipro) and I had ready a study (which I have posted about here before) about how Turmeric (95% curcuminoids) is as effective as Prozac. Only lots of GOOD side effects. So I weaned off my then current antidepressant ( you don’t want to go off quickly…I tried once and got electrical zaps in my knees and head) and started on the turmeric….and never looked back.


      • Sheila January 9, 2019 at 8:37 pm Reply

        FYI Prozac is a fluoride compound. Fluoxetine.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 8:51 pm

          Also Paxil and some lesser known ones.

        • Virginia January 9, 2019 at 9:00 pm

          Do you know if Pristiq and Zoloft contain fluoride? Those were my main ones.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 9:06 pm

          Prozac, Luvox, Paxil, Gabren, Gabrene, Halogabide, Progabida, Progabide, Progabidum. (hopefully that is a complete list) http://slweb.org/ftrcfluorinatedpharm.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2019 at 5:04 am

          It’s a start;this website is still “in the making”,and more and more “medicines”get the fluoride poison added,most of them probably just because the original patent is at it’s end.The added fluoride is just for patent renewal.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 10:10 am

          yeah, it would be best to really research any individual drug you are taking. There are actually severally different sites I found that list drugs with fluoride, and some have ones others don’t.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 9:08 pm

          I was hoping that was complete, but on another site someone says he is taking Zoloft and it does have fluoride……may want to dig around a bit

        • Anna January 9, 2019 at 10:25 pm

          I apologize for jumping in on this thread and asking a random question, but I am having difficulty using key word search, and I noticed earlier someone mention septocain. Can someone please repeat for me which dental numbing agents are harmful to floxies? I tried searching dentist/novocain/septocain on the site but nothing helpful came up. I have a root canal and a crown appointment coming up, and I I am not sure which numbing I should get or if I even have options.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 11:03 pm

          Well, that’s a difficult question to answer. We all apparently react differently to them. I was about as floxed as you can get—head to toe, several systems, joints, vision, etc. And yet, I had carbocaine for a dental anesthetic…twice, with no issue. Someone else had a bad reaction. So the same would be true of septocain, or any other cain. (I actually also had another topical one…lidocaine? can’t recall. Again, NO reaction. perhaps we could take a poll, who reacted to what. I don’t know if it would help though. (There is a link I posted above that lists drugs that contain fluoride and there are some anesthetics listed, but I don’t recall hearing of them before.)

          The carbocaine was from an holistic (Huggins trained) dentist. I just did a search and these are the ones normally used by holistic dentists because they are less toxic: Here are the anesthetics used most often by holistic dentists:
          Septocaine – Although not on lower teeth as explained above (can cause numbness)
          Carbocaine – Quite popular anestetic
          Citanest – Dr O’s favorite because it seems to be a little more effective than Carbocaine
          Marcaine – Only used for very long procedures

        • Anna January 10, 2019 at 7:35 am

          Thanks, L! I wanted to be sure I wasn’t getting ready to allow an injectable known to cause definite issues in the majority of floxies. Unfortunately, I have only one endodontist in my city that does decent work, so I’ll have to probably go with whatever he offers.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 10:40 am

          well if you called ahead and explained your situation, he might be able to arrange to have one of these other ones available for you.

        • Bob January 12, 2019 at 9:51 am

          I had carbocain before the septocain. They didn’t think it was working fast enough.

        • Bob January 12, 2019 at 9:49 am

          It is my opinion you should not even get a root canal. Mine failed and the tooth had to be pulled anyway. I was stupid to even consider getting one. that was when they gave me the septocaine. Anything and everything they give you could relapse you. Besides with a root canal you have dead tissue in your mouth that infection can breed under. My current dentist advises against them. If I had a bad tooth now I would try an ozone injection in the gums to try and save it and if that didn’t work I would say put on a topical pain killer and yank it out. It is not worth the risk.

        • L January 12, 2019 at 10:58 am

          I had 3 root canals. Paid $1,000 out of pocket for each, and lost all three within a year. That was about 10 years ago. Knowing what I know now, I would have never gotten them to begin with. It is the only procedure where dying tissue is left in your body. The infections and bacteria from that can then travel through your body and cause illness. There is a lot of info out there, but here’s one site https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/05/31/root-canal-teeth.aspx

      • Virginia January 9, 2019 at 8:49 pm Reply

        I really appreciate the tip I read on this site about standardized 95% curcuminoids Turmeric for depression! Until I had my recent stomach pain, I had been taking it for months and I think it helped. I hope to return to it when my stomach heals. Like Doug, antidepressants had helped me also. I responded very well to them for about 15 years (I didn’t take Fluoxetine), but had to give them up when I got 3 mysterious fractures in one year. Be careful, fellow post-menopausal ladies who have been on SSRIs for years: they have a rare but nasty side-effect of fracturing bones! My endocrinologist did exhaustive tests and ruled out all other causes of the mysterious fractures. Even my psychiatrist didn’t know about the well-documented studies showing this link. Going off SSRIs was very hard on my mood, so I’ve been trying 5-HTP and Turmeric, and hope these will help.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 9:03 pm

          You know ,I was on antidepressants for over 20 years. I can’t even remember the names of all of them (except the last was Effexor, I remember that, and I know I took paxil at one time. ) But I was told I would likely have to be on them for life.

          Then I read a study that antidepressants were no better than placebos. Of course, I bristled at that at first (this was way before my utter disdain for pharmaceuticals! 🙂 ) But I started doing some research, and sure enough, that seemed to be true. But I kept thinking “they have helped.” It wasn’t like I was happy, I just wasn’t as darkly depressed, so I figured they were working. I also had read that the whole basis of depression being caused by a chemical imbalance, the reason for “needing” antidepressants, actually has never been proven. So when I heard about the turmeric I figure I had nothing to lose. Plus it has a number of GOOD side effects. I was doing very well on the turmeric for about a year, then cipro hit. But at that point I had no desire to go back on antidepressants ever again. And through my most horrific, nightmarish, suffocating period post-floxing, there isn’t a drug in the world that could have relieved that depression.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2019 at 4:54 am Reply

        Thanks for the link.There are a lot more of natural remidies against depression;magnesium is a very important one.

  6. Dee January 9, 2019 at 5:16 pm Reply

    Bob, Are you taking homeopathic remedies again with Mr Mueller??? Also may I ask how long you were floxed at the time you took septocaine and had a reaction to it?? Did you feel pretty recovered when you reacted to the septocaine? Dee

    • Anna January 9, 2019 at 10:27 pm Reply

      Ah, I was looking for this comment and just found it! I too would like to know about Bob’s reaction to Septocain. What would floxies use for numbing at the dentist if they can’t use Septocain?

      • Daniela January 10, 2019 at 5:40 pm Reply


        A patient with no history of atopy had two anesthetic injections, one of 2% lignocaine with 1:80,000 adrenaline for a root canal procedure and another of articaine chlorhydrate (marketed as Septanest® in France and as Septocaine® in the US) for a tooth extraction. On the first occasion, a few seconds after the injection, the patient experienced abdominal pain, tachycardia, burning paresthesia on the feet, hands and face, hypertension, hyperpnea, tachypnea, and severe anxiety.

        The second event (with Septocaine) occurred 9 months later. Septanest was administered without noradrenaline, following the recommendation of a cardiologist. However, the patient experienced the same symptoms and some additional symptoms including muscle pain, a sensation of heat, especially on the face, partial paralysis of feet, hands and throat, headache, dizziness, a loss of spatial orientation, and dysphonia. Tachycardia was less intense, but still present. The patient required admission to the emergency ward.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 5:56 pm

          That’s unfortunate but I imagine you could find data like that for most (all?) anesthetics. At least in part, it may have to do with the family of anesthetics it comes from. ” Lidocaine is classified in the amide group of anesthetics, along with mepivacaine, bupivacaine, etidocaine and prilocaine. If a patient is allergic to one of these anesthetics, there is a chance they will be allergic to other anesthetics in the same family. However, an anesthetic from the ester group could be used as an alternative if a patient is allergic to amide anesthetics. The ester group includes anesthetics such as tetracaine, procaine, cocaine, and chloroprocaine.”

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 5:00 am

          This group of synthetic anestetics is based on cocain,the latter,natural thing probably being the safest,but unpatentable.As is what usualy happens when the quacks try to copy a natural,effective and,most of the time,very safe natural medicine just to make it patentable (and véry profitable).

        • Daniela January 11, 2019 at 7:47 am

          Henk, I think you are right. Franken-caine! Do you think I can find a dentist using coca? (I mean for my dental work, not for their own enjoyment!)

          In Thailand they used to have someone give you foot massage, no shots whatsoever.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 8:06 am

          Maybe in Colombia?Or,maybe,this will help?


          In some countries a coca wine was sold,(Vin Mariani),and it was,and might still be used for Coca Cola in the production for some countries.

          But I only accept some anestetics when a tooth has to be removed;for dental cleaning and things like that I think the anestetics are worse than the treatment.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2019 at 8:09 am

          Coca Buton is still produced and sold,but I think the leaves are,before production,dé-cocainized.And the alcohol will promote extensive bleeding.So:not advisible!


        • Daniela January 11, 2019 at 10:18 am

          Wrote too soon! The US gov National Institute of Health says inability to break down choline ester drugs can be genetic — or acquired from certain drugs (guess which) “People with pseudocholinesterase deficiency may also have increased sensitivity to certain other drugs, including the local anesthetic procaine”
          SO the thing to do is look into anesthesia alternatives but I am not having luck finding much except unfulfilled promises. Off to Thailand!

      • Daniela January 10, 2019 at 6:46 pm Reply

        The Bosscher Foundation’s aim is to promote scientific research into health related complaints attributed to the use of local anesthetics.

        In particular, the Bosscher Foundation focuses its attention on the anesthetic, articaine hydrochloride, the active component in: Ultracaine™ available in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and many other countries.
        Septanest™ available in Canada, France, Spain and many other countries.
        Citocain™ available in Italy, Spain, Russia and Japan.
        Primacaine™ available in Italy, France, Russia, Poland and India.
        Septocaine™ available in USA, Scandinavian countries and Russia.
        Ubistesine™ available in Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium and many other countries.
        Alphacaine™ available in France, Germany and many other countries

        The Bosscher Foundation suspects that articaine is responsible for a series
        of unexpected side effects.


        • Daniela January 11, 2019 at 10:20 am

          Unfortunately if you have developed choline ester sensitivity even procaine may harm you (see above)

        • Bob January 12, 2019 at 10:10 am

          If your liver is compromised from toxins ANYTHING can affect you.

        • Daniela January 12, 2019 at 10:22 am

          Bob, I completely agree. I’m not going to risk any -caine injection after what happened to me. I can’t even have a sip of coffee! I am having a hard time finding dentists who will work without anesthesia, though.

          It’s so funny because the pain I am experiencing on a daily basis is much worse than the minutes that dental work takes. So it’s obviously about THEIR comfort and not mine.

      • Daniela January 10, 2019 at 6:48 pm Reply

        The Dutch organisation dedicated to educating the public about articaine (septocaine) suggests lidocaine, prilocaine or mepivicaine may be less likely to cause an adverse event.

        • L January 10, 2019 at 10:24 pm

          again, I was given carbocaine, which is popular with holistic dds, as being less toxic. I am afraid it will not be “one size fits all.”

        • Anna January 11, 2019 at 2:51 am

          Interesting! Thanks for sharing, Daniela.

        • S January 15, 2019 at 6:51 am

          I had a reaction to lidocaine :/ joints tendons, pins and needles etc…also had the same reaction to amoxicillin.

        • Anna January 15, 2019 at 8:37 am

          My God, what can someone do for dental procedures then!? I am sorry, but topical numbing agents will not cut it for most people, that is brutal. If you have a serious problem, teeth need real medicine in my opinion, I guess you just have to risk being floxed again. Teeth and surgeries are two areas where REAL medicine can not be avoided, and you are further torturing yourself trying to do everything homeopathic. That being said, Flueroquinolones are NEVER again an option, regardless of situation.

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:11 pm

          My ongoing relapse from the root canal is so bad if I had it to do over I would rather had a couple shots of whiskey and pull the tooth. it is not worth years of pain.

        • Anna January 19, 2019 at 8:43 pm

          I understand where you are coming from , Bob! It is just a shame that floxies have to make these types of awful choices. Are you sure it was the numbing agent? I mean, how quickly did the relapse occur and how did you make the correlation?

        • Bob January 20, 2019 at 8:15 pm

          Within one day.

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:07 pm

          Like I said before when you have been floxed anything can hurt you.

        • Daniela January 15, 2019 at 9:52 am

          Hi S, I hate that there isn’t enough recognition of how we are hypersensitive to so many other things. I’m sure there is someone out there who has invented alternative dentistry without any -caines or anesthesia. Lasers, higher speed drills, hypnosis, I’m sure it’s possible. I’ll keep looking, I have to!

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:12 pm

          The laser I just had done worked pretty good.

        • Moira January 22, 2019 at 9:04 am

          Bob, who did your laser cavity filling?

    • Bob January 12, 2019 at 9:38 am Reply

      I am not working with Dr. Mueller right now. It’s was about 3 years after getting floxed that I took septocaine. I was still having some problems with neuropathy but nothing like after the septocain which was like getting floxed again.

      • Daniela January 14, 2019 at 5:41 pm Reply

        Bob, that is exactly what happened to me. I am struggling now with a painful fractured tooth, trying to find a dentist who will a) believe me, b) stop referring me for TMJ and mouth guards when cipro is weakening the teeth, c) work without one of these deadly -caines and d) understand I don’t mean I want general or narcotics or whatever the heck twilight is either!

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:05 pm

          I found a really good dentist in the Cleveland, Ohio area. He knows all about Cipro and the problems with some of these painkillers. I just had a 4 surface cavity done last week using laser. It still hurt some but nothing to write home about. A fractured tooth is obviously a bigger problem. I would guess you would need a crown. He calls himself an “integrative dentist.” If you can find and integrative dentist that uses ozone then he should be pretty good. I guess it all comes down to how much pain can you stand for a short period of time whether for the drilling or extraction. I know someone once that was hypnotized for dental work.

        • L January 19, 2019 at 2:52 pm

          Here is a good start to look for a Huggins trained dentist (the gold standard for holistic dentistry.) https://www.hugginsappliedhealing.com/find-a-huggins-centers-for-healing-dentist/

        • Anna January 19, 2019 at 8:45 pm

          Daniela, you also experienced a relapse from a dental numbing injection?

  7. Doug January 9, 2019 at 11:28 pm Reply

    Hey Bob, did you take the treatment by Dr. Mueller?

    • Bob January 12, 2019 at 9:52 am Reply

      For 6 months

  8. Anna January 12, 2019 at 2:31 pm Reply

    I am curious if anyone here has ever tried AZO to help calm an irritated bladder? It is, and over the counter, supposedly very effective for people who do not have an actual bladder infection, but simply are experiencing irritation of the bladder lining or Interstitial cystitis (IC)/bladder pain syndrome (BPS

    • L January 12, 2019 at 4:01 pm Reply

      I did. and I did use it for a while. I think it did help some, when I wasn’t really bad. (I used their test strips too) But it appears to have a host of possible side effects (also a warning if you have the same mutation that they test for before high dose C IVs…https://www.drugs.com/mtm/azo-urinary-pain-relief.html

      What helped me the most was Chinese herbs mixed by my acupuncturist

      • Anna January 12, 2019 at 4:40 pm Reply

        Thanks, L. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and helpful knowledge!

        • L January 12, 2019 at 5:00 pm

          you’re welcome! BTW, here’s Florida’s SOL on med mal (better than CA!) 2018 Florida Statutes title VIII 95.11.7(4)(b)

          An action for medical malpractice shall be commenced within 2 years from the time the incident giving rise to the action occurred or within 2 years from the time the incident is discovered, or should have been discovered with the exercise of due diligence; however, in no event shall the action be commenced later than 4 years from the date of the incident or occurrence out of which the cause of action accrued, except that this 4-year period shall not bar an action brought on behalf of a minor on or before the child’s eighth birthday. An “action for medical malpractice” is defined as a claim in tort or in contract for damages because of the death, injury, or monetary loss to any person arising out of any medical, dental, or surgical diagnosis, treatment, or care by any provider of health care.


    • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 11:57 am Reply

      Very intersting Anna. I think I’m going to ty it. I’ve checked their products and ingredients. There’re basically two items I’m really interested in. One is a simple supplement with pumpkin seed and soy germ extracts. The other one is the one that L posted the link about. Here in Italy it is sold under prescription.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 13, 2019 at 12:14 pm Reply

        Andrea,I don’t want to discourage you but I found this on AZO (Phenazopyridine is a chemical):As you will know;chemicals are,for most floxies,a no-no zône;they seem to be extremely sensitive for chem’s.


        The Pumpkin seeds are 100% safe.I used them as a snack,for quite a few years,untill I didn’t like the taste anymore.Don.t know about the safety of soy germ extract,but soy is full of fyto-oestrogens,and Phytic acid,which inhibits absorption of minerals( zinc,iron and calcium,etc.) and,possibly,vitamines as well.

  9. Andrea January 13, 2019 at 12:36 pm Reply

    I know it’s a chemical Henk. I’ve already did my homework, but what am I supposed to do?
    I can’t continue lo live like this. I need to sleep. Tonight I wake up at least 7-8 times to urinate. Pumpikin seed and soy germ? Yeah, they could help, but in reality, I don’t really think they’re going to do much. I’ve already tried so many “natural remedies” both for prostate and the urinary tract. and they never turned out to be helpful. I think I’m going to try this last thing, let’s see what happen

    • Anna January 13, 2019 at 1:25 pm Reply

      Andrea, I had IC before taking Cipro, so it is not related to floxing. Let me tell you, I totally understand a flare up will lead you to try almost anything to alleviate pain. Natural remedies I’ve tried have never helped. I haven’t tried AZO yet, but it has decent reviews. The two side effects that I read were it can cause vomiting if not taken with food and one person went to the ER because it caused her not to be able to empty her bladder. Everyone else called it a miracle drug. I have tried the AZO urine test strips, which can cheaply tell you if you have bacteria in your urine (UTI) or just inflammation in the bladder (IC) – I also read a very interesting assessment of why one guy thought he had IC, he thought maybe it was due to a herniated disc, which I happen to have as well!


      The only other medications for IC are anti-depressants/anti-inflammatory/anti-histamines, all of which I would think are more dangerous for a floxy than AZO. Oh, and , I forgot to mention the main IC drug which is Elmiron, which is almost guaranteed to make your hair fall out. Really AZO is not perfect, but for IC maybe the safest medicinal option.

      • L January 13, 2019 at 2:38 pm Reply

        AND Chinese herbal medicine. If someone can find a good acupuncturist who also does TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) that can help. Helped me!

        • Anna January 13, 2019 at 4:26 pm

          Thanks, L. If I lived somewhere else, anywhere but Florida, I would look for someone in this field. But, until I move form this state I am refusing to see any specialists or doctors. I understand floxing happens in many places, but Florida is extra reckless and dangerous in my opinion. I hope to move soon, but until then I am trying to get by without any specialists involved.

      • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 3:11 pm Reply

        Thanks Anna. I’ve read all the side effects about AZO ( phenazopyridine) and some of them are quite scary : colored urine etc. but my problem is that I don’t really understand what’s wrong with my bladder/urinary tract. There’s defenetly some obstruction in the urethra bladder/neck area, that is causing urinaty retention/frequency, but after the FQ it all went downhill. It is not that crazy to think IC can be caused by the FQ. Many are the causes : stress, mast cell damage, neurological damage etc
        PS I’ve also read that phenazopyridine could be cancerogenic, so I don’t really know what to do

        • Anna January 13, 2019 at 4:29 pm

          Several things supposedly can cause bladder pain, without it being UTI. I know endometriosis and pelvic floor dysfunction cause pain as well. I too had retention and that indicates pelvic floor dysfunction, coupled with a back problem, coupled with loving tomatoes/wine/spicy food/acidic food…well I guess it is a perfect recipe for pain. I think in many cases it is several causes.

        • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 4:45 pm

          Yeah, it could be many things. I wanted to do a neurological pelvic floor study, but here it’s not easy to find the right clinic who does it. I don’t really know, there’re so many pieces of this puzzle that I can’t place yet. And we’re alone in this “investigation”. I already forgot about doctors, they’re completely clueless. Maybe the right direction for this particular issue would be finding some pratictioner of pain menagement/medicine. I’m thinking about injections or similar…

        • L January 13, 2019 at 4:48 pm

          and sadly, since most of the damage is functional and not structural, chances are good it wouldn’t show anything anyhow. I had an ultra sound and it showed nothing (other than a bit of retention.)

        • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 4:47 pm

          Right now, another thing that pisses me off so much is that I’ve never experienced GI issues since being floxed, but after taking some probiotics for a few days, here I am, bloated as f**k….

        • Andrea January 13, 2019 at 5:03 pm

          L the study I wanted to do is more similar to an electromiography then an ultra sound, but it would probably show nothing anyhow

        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 11:23 am

          You might want to try a good infrared light over the area several times a day. It couldn’t hurt. The good ones are quite expensive though.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 13, 2019 at 1:28 pm Reply

      I do understand the way you’re thinking,Andrea,and I wish you all the luck in the world.A magnetic pulser still is another option.Just bought some “new” photo flashes (Vivitar 2800;my favorit for making a pulser.One of my older homemaqde pulsers needs a “new” flash unit;the old one is worn out and has to be replaced.I intend to take pics,while doing the job,or maybe even make a little movie to explain how it’s done,but I’m not intending to put much effort in this because there;s so much info on this,on the web,already.

  10. Jackie January 15, 2019 at 4:38 pm Reply

    has anyone tried or heard of a device called heelease for the treatment of plantar faciitis?

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2019 at 1:16 am Reply

      I have no experience with this heelease device,but did some research.Their own website explains how it works;it’s a little vibrator which vibrates at a 150 hz frequenty.That’s all.

      On their own website you can read testimonials,and,of course,those are all very possitive.There’s a little video on YT,in which the owner of heelease promotes his product.What strikes me is the fact that the comments on YT are switched off.My guess: on your own website you have full control over the comments/reviews;on Youtube you don’t.Now think:why would somebody switch off the comments on YT ,if he was shure of the quality of his product,and if most customers would,indeed,be happy with this device and would llike to comment on this video?

      If you’d like to give it a try,then please inform us about the benifits you have.If there are no benefits,then,please,please,inform us as well.Most Floxies have a chronic shortage of money because they have high health costs,so we don’t want to waste the prescious little money we have on devices that don’t work.

      • S January 16, 2019 at 4:05 am Reply

        I haven’t used heelease, but I do have a novasonic massager which I use around my muscles and heel area – any part of my body which aches and it really helps my tendons loosen up and not hurt as much…never use directly on tendons or joints but around them, I think they come with a guide for how to use it etc


        Looks like they don’t stock them on there website though, amazon may have some. I would be careful about ordering from ebay in case they don’t work properly however..

        • S January 16, 2019 at 4:28 am


          US webpage – think it’s the same company and similar products, works for me but might not work for everyone…If any one does consider it check if they acceptably returns in case it doesn’t work etc

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2019 at 9:48 am

          I’ve compared both websites and….they’re the same company and website.Or……maybe…..they’re not.Very strange and confusing!

          The method of sonic treatment is not new,and,as far as I can find,effective for treating chronic pains of tendons and muscles,but the equipment is big and veryexpensive.The Novafon isn’t cheap (about $250),the Novasonic (looks the same as the Novafon) is out of stock and the website shows,for the moment,no price.The Healease is even cheaper,and smaller.I have no idea if any of these devices is anywhere as effective as the professional devices,used in clinics.

          As for the TENS unit:scroll down the AMAZON page,push the button “see all reviews”,and then the button “Top critical review”.Lots of problems with this device.Broken screens,bad connections,causing hefty electric shocks;my Sanitas TENS/EMS unit has this same problem.

          Even my Sota devices have this problem;the devices are great but sometimes a cord breaks and gives this shocks.When the connection between the cord and the device is causing this problem,it’s worse.While,with the Sota’s,you only need to replace the cord,when the problem is in the connection cord/device,you might have to buy a new device.

          There are good TENS devices on the market but this one on Amazon might be a risky buy.I advice to ALWAYS read the critical advices on websites like Amazon;those are the most interesting when you want to buy something.

        • Anna January 16, 2019 at 12:44 pm

          Yes, I see what you mean, Henk!

        • Anna January 16, 2019 at 7:35 am

          I am thinking of getting a TENS , electrical stimulation unit. Seems to have decent reviews.


        • Bob January 19, 2019 at 12:15 pm

          I used to love the tens after a chiro adjustment. After getting floxed it put me in bed for a week.

  11. Mike Wallbridge January 16, 2019 at 8:19 am Reply

    I’m about to go into hospital for a cancer-related prostatectomy and they will be giving me warfarin and an antibiotic, either metronidazole or cephalosporin (2nd or 3rd generation). Has anyone experience of these drugs affecting their toxicity symptoms?

  12. Dee January 16, 2019 at 8:24 am Reply

    Henk, I read floxie home off and on. I can’t remember if you wrote about it before but what is your FQ story? When and how did you get floxed and how are you doing now in terms of recovery? You seem to have researched this so throughly and have so much knowledge! I was just curious what your story was!! With that I do hope you are mostly recovered!!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 17, 2019 at 8:32 am Reply

      Dee,I wrote about how I was floxed,and a previous experience with Metronidazole/Amoxicillin combo several times.

      First thing I noticed,right after the first Cipro tablet (500mg/2 x per day),I got very hefty heart pulptations (almost fell of my bike;was on my way to a supermarket and it fell as if somebody hit me as hard as possible on my brest bone with a sledgehammer,from the inside).I took a year for this symptom to (most of it) disappear. Two times,after a cup of tea,it came back,but not as hefty as the first time.I think that magnesium supplementing was helpfull,here.

      Had,just like after the first course,with Metr./Amox. hyper- and hypoglycemia.About 3 years after that first course I built a magnetic pulser and after 2-3 weeks this symptom,ánd 3 years of loose stools,were under (reasonable) control.

      After the Cipro I waited for 1 month to see if things improved on it’s own,but they didn’t.I started using the magn.pulser again,and after about 2 weeks my bloodsugar seemed stable again,but after a few weeks the problem came back.Again started using the MP,and after 2-3 weeks things were much improved.Since then I use the MP very regularly,with good results.

      I didn’t have loose stool after the Cipro.That might be because I only used it for 2 day’s (4 tablets),but I think it’s mainly because I used (and still use) Flecaïnide Acetate,which makes your stool very hard.The use of both Cipro and Flecaïnide may have atributed to the problem in a great way;before my doc prescribed the Cipro she told me that she had just received a message with a warning NOT to prescribe Cipro to users of Flecainide,but she did just that,nevertheless.

      After a year I started having double vision;my right eye not willing to cooperate with my left eye.This,sometimes,improves (like,when I started using my MP on my eyes,in combination with the Bio Tuner,another Beck/Sota device).But after a few weeks with notable improvements it went back downwards,although,not as bad as it was before.Need to admit that,during the last weeks,I was less constant in using both devices;I regulairly forget to use the Bio Tuner because I use it in the afternoon,but when I’m busy something else,I simply forget it.

      Things that hardly show any improvement,if any,are:memory,”traveling” pains (muscles?tendons?nerves?).Those appear,and disappear on random places in the body.Somtimes they last only minutes,sometimes several day’s.I’m happy with my magnetic pulser,here;realy seems to help quite a lot.

      I’ve had sleeping problems since childhood,and every medicine I had during the last 20 years has made this problem worse (Losec/Meprodazol,and both AB courses).Every day,when I wake up,I feel exhausted,and need hours to recover a bit and “start the day”. I can’t remember how it feels to wake up and feeling “fresh”;it’s simply too long ago.

      There are other symptoms,since I took the Cipro,as well,but compared to the ones I just mentioned I consider those “minor”

      So,where the heart problem,most of it,disappeared,but the eye problem took it’s place,all the other problems are still there in fluctuating levels of severaty.The low energy level ( with a strange kind of feeling tired after having done a (tiny) bit of work;not just feeling tired but feeling sick/ill),the depression (Cipro damage,ánd the black thoughts of knowing how 4 pills changed my life into a constant misery),and,above all,the eye damage.Photography is só important to me,and this double vision makes me crazy and feeling desperate,even without a camera in my hands.Even worse;looking through a viewfinder seems to trigger this “wandering off” of my right eye.And the memory problem;it worries me a lot.The Bio Tuner helps a bit but only for a short period.

      I cann’t forgive my doc for doing this to me because she knew she took a risk with my healt and safety from the start.Her gamble,my risk,I’ve lost my last bit of trust in “science based) medicine and their disciples.

  13. Dee January 17, 2019 at 8:31 am Reply

    Henk, I wasn’t sure if you saw my question a couple of days ago?? I was just wondering how and when you got floxed?? What your story is? You seem to have so much knowledge about FQ toxicity? Did you take a lot of FQs? Are you mostly recovered now and if so what did you do and how long did it take?? I do hope you are mostly healed!! I hope that every floxie has a chance to come close to recovering!! It is a long and tough road! I am 18 months out still dealing with lingering symptoms but SLOWLY improving emphasize “slowly”!!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 17, 2019 at 8:34 am Reply

      I was just answering your question when your “new” one came in :-))

  14. Dee January 17, 2019 at 9:04 am Reply

    Henk. Thanks for your explanation!! Only 4 pills of cipro caused all that!!?? That really boggles my mind!! Do you feel like you are “slowly” getting better with time?? It also sounds like the other ABs caused you problems too?? I also get random aches and pains here and there but not enough to put me in a lot of pain. It is manageable! I also wake up very tired on some days feeling exhausted like I have the flu! I guess this is pretty typical in FQ recovery. It is my understanding that will very slowly improve over time? I hope!!! It sounds like your eyes bother you the most? I sure hope they will continue to heal in “time” too!! I really hate the word “time” now but I guess we all have to befriend it!!! May I ask you how old you are? How long have you been floxed since taking 4 cipro pills?? I took 7 500 mg pills over 3 1/2 days and it gave me multiple and pretty debilitating symptoms for months!! What a journey this is!!!! Not a fun one!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 6:08 am Reply

      Dee,there are people who are floxed more severe than I am,of only ONE pill! And,like I wrote,the doc shouldn’t have prescribed me Cipro because I already use Flecaïnide Acetat,and both are known to interact in a bad way.She’d just received a message telling her just that! But she didn’t thing for a second of prescribing me another AB,instead,phoned around with other “medics”and decided to lower the dose of the Fleacinide with 50 % and “this would be oké”.

      I started to have this feeling of being very tired shortly after starting the use of Losec (which my “then” doc pushed on me),and it got worse and worse in time.After about 7-8 years I started to have this strange tingling feeling at wake-up,like,when you’ve walked 10 miles,came home and lay down with your feet on a pillow.That started with my legs but soon after it started spreading over the rest of my body.On better days it;s still only my legs,in worse day my whole body is tingling,and at those days the tired feeling is at its worst.

      Both AB courses have had a negative influence on this symptom;I think it is mainly caused by the Losec,which caused a severe magnesium defficiency over 15 years of usage.And both AB courses robbed my body of the little magn. left.There’s a good reason,in alternative medicine it’s said:” magnesium defficiency is medical industry’s best kept secret”.

      Well,some things improved (a little),I’m very glad the heart problem almost disappeared but then came the eye problem.With things going up and down it’s hard to tell if there’s that much improvement.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 6:44 am Reply

      Forgot to answer your question about my age ( How dare you? Just kidding ;-)) I’m 64.That might,in part,explain the damage I got,after just 4 pills,and the very slow recovery,if there is any.

      In fact,for some years,now,the advise is to nót prescribe FQ’s to people of age 60 and older,because the are more prone to damage and have a lower chance of (full) recovery.

      • Madge Hirsch January 18, 2019 at 11:26 am Reply

        I was 62 when given iv Cipro along with Flagyl for diverticulitis. After 2 days they stopped the Cipro because I had chest pain and neuropathy in my arms and the cardiologist was called. But they did not tell me I might have had a reaction to the drug nor did they write to my GP who then gave me it nearly a year later for a suspected UTI. Luckily I only took one pill before looking it up and discovering the horror of floxing. One week later I was taken in an ambulance to another hospital with a heart rate of 160 bpm and told I was in afib. Coincidence? After finding out about floxing I was convinced I had been floxed before at least twice but 10 years apart. I did get better but I was younger . This time I am not sure I will recover . My tendonitis is much worse and I have had further incidents of afib. Also now I have mild neuropathy that I never had before. I feel that I have aged much more quickly since the floxing.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 6:46 am Reply

      Oh,and I was floxed in september 2016. The course with Metronidazol and Amoxicillin was in 2004.

  15. Flox January 17, 2019 at 1:00 pm Reply

    Whatt are your symptoms?

    • Dee January 18, 2019 at 8:19 am Reply

      Flox, I had multiple symptoms the first few months! Terrible brain fog, very bad anxiety and insomnia. I had sore, achy, stiff joints and muscles, headaches, dry achy eyes with some blurriness, dry mouth and ears. Severe tinnitus. A lot of fatigue, lack of appetite and diarrhea with 50 lb weight loss. Rash on my back, depression and depersonalization. I was like a walking zombie and a bundle of nerves for the first several months. SLOWLY things have improved. I am at 19 months now doing much better but with some lingering symptoms which is mostly early morning wakeup with increased anxiety, tinnitus and bathroom visits. I feel tired and flu like on random days although that is slowly improving. It has been a very slow recovery but I hope to eventually make it all the way!!!!

  16. Dee January 18, 2019 at 7:51 am Reply

    Henk, hopefully you ARE and WILL get better and better and keep improving!! I asked your age because I am 62 and like you feel like my recovery is a lot slower and possibly more compromised because of my age. I hope, pray and wish that I will still completely recover even if it takes me longer I just hope to eventually get there as I’m sure you are!! Did your joints, tendons or muscles get hit very hard?? My CNS seemed to take the biggest hit with slot of brain fog initially the first few months and tremendous anxiety and insomnia. My sleep has improved a lot although I still wake pretty early and suddenly with ramped up anxiety and tinnitus. I have a better morning every now and then like your double vision but it really keeps hanging on and lingering! Basically my nervous system is pretty ramped up in the morning!! I think it is trying to heal but oh soooo very SLOWLY!!!!! I take extra Angstrom Magnesium every day so hopefully that is helping me heal with various other supplements!! How is your sleep now? Do you sleep through the night or wake up a lot??

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 9:10 am Reply

      Well,I hope all of us will get better in time,at least to an acceptable level.
      I got a terrible pain in my left Arcilles tendon,a fwo weeks after I took the Cipro “road to happy-ness”.With help of my magnetic pulser the pain vanished in 1 1/2-2 weeks,but a few weeks later I got the same pain in my right Arcilles tendon;same story.After that I got this,what I call,”wandering” pains all trhough my body.I’m not shure of the cause of these pains;might be tendons (the pains in my joints),muscles,or nerves.Probably all three play their role.

      The tingling effect in my body,at wake up,came before I had any AB;and is probably caused by a chronic magnesium defficiency.And because Amoxicillin (probably Metrnidazole as well),and Cipro rob a lot of magnesium from the body,those courses made things a lot worse.Heart arrythmea started right after the first course,in 2004,and got worse over time,untill I was hurried to hospital,two times in two weeks,in november 2013.

      The first time I was there,I got the flecainide,but 2 weeks later I was back.There I had a hefty discussion with the heart specialist about the Losec,causing this heart problem,but he had a strong argument to prove the long term safety of Losec;”Do you know how many people use osec?”.I was perplex,and it was clear to me that discussing with this idiot was useless.Two month’s later there was an article in all major newspapers about Losec,and mother PPI’s causing a magnesium defficiency if used for too long time.It was advised to not use it any longer than 3 month;I used it 15 years,then!

      After that second visit to the hospital I stopped with Losec/Omeprazole,and since then had no heart problems untill I got floxed.Still use the Flecainide (half dose,since my doctor lowered the dose to “safely” prescribe me the Cipro.Why I still use it? Pure for the fear of getting another heart arrithmea.But things went quite good,for my heart,untill I got floxed.Then I got,from pill one,heart pulptations (? I think that is what it’s called),which took a year,to (almost) vanish.

      These AB’s are said to save lifes,and sometimes they do.But,knowing how many lives are ruined or,at least heavily damaged,I think it’s time for an other vision on this very dangerous “medicines”.Or (my personal opinion) on ALL synthetic,non natural “medicines”.

      My sleep is still a problem.Most days I wake up after 5,sometimes 6 hours.Most times I can’t fall asleep anymore,just stay in bed to recover from the sleep I had.Now and then I fall asleep again and wake up after another few hours of sleep;this is most often after I had a few days of having had too little sleep.Since this started,at the end of last century,I haven’t slept a normal sleep for a single night;can’t even remember how it feels to have had a good night rest.And have no illusion left to,ever have such a good night sleep,in the future.I must remark,here,that I had sleeping problems since I was a little kid.

  17. Dee January 18, 2019 at 8:08 am Reply

    Henk, forgot to ask when did your double vision come on after getting floxed and what kind of heart problem did it cause??? Glad your heart issue is better!!!! That is a real good thing!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 9:16 am Reply

      My eye problems started at the time my heart pulptations were almost gone;a year after being floxed.I was floxed in sept.2016

  18. Mike Wallbridge January 18, 2019 at 9:32 am Reply

    Before being floxed in mid-September, I had no idea of the danger of antibiotics and the damage they could cause. I’m 63 and had used them frequently throughout my life for various chest infections etc. It’s never been a concern but it is now. With an operation coming up next month, another AB is inevitable but I will avoid Metronidazole if I can and opt for a Cephalosporin . . . unless any of you say otherwise.
    So far I’ve been fortunate. Although my eye prescription has changed, pain in my joints is minimal and I’ve found a regime that seems to work for me. I take 600mg of Mag Glycinate and 150mg L-Threonate each day and use a lot of Mag Oil (maybe 1000mg Mag) on my body at night, especially the joints and chest. I take Collagen, a B complex, D3 and a multivitamin. I’m also under a herbalist and eat a detoxing breakfast that should remove Fluorine from the system, and take the remedies he’s given me that will do the same, and repair the tendons, ligaments and other tissues damaged by the Fluorine. Only when I’m stressed does the pain come back. But I dread the thought of adding another AB to my system and what its effects may be on my existing toxicity.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2019 at 9:59 am Reply

      Mike,can you tell us about your fluoride detox breakfast? As far as I know there’s only one (scientificly proven) substance to get fluoride out of the body (Tamarind),so,every info about fluorid detoxification is welcome.

      I’m glad to read that,for you,things are working out pretty well;not everybody is so lucky. I’d urge you to avoid all fluoride “fortified” AB’s and other medicines.Metronidazole is a big No-NO,too;I know that from my first AB experience.Your choice for Cephalosporin might be a wise one,if you’re not allergic for penicillins,and if that’s an AB,nót yet “fortified” with the fluorid poison.

      Your supps choice is great;I agree with it a full 100 % !

      • Mike Wallbridge January 18, 2019 at 10:39 am Reply

        Thanks, Henk for your encouragement but I recognise it is early days and my symptoms may alter or get worse. The breakfast detoxifies at a general health level, not just specifically fluorine alone. The herbalist determined that, with the other health problems I have, my body is fairly toxic so that was the place to start though he’s a clever man and has done his homework on Fluoroquinolone Toxicity.

        Basically the breakfast is a pureed mixture of nuts (brazil, walnut, almond), seeds (flax, sunflower and pumpkin), soaked dried fruits (raisins and prunes) and fresh fruit (apples and bananas). But to this he has added ground milk thistle seeds for the health of the liver, tamarind puree and a ground kelp tablet (for the iodine that also pushes fluorine out of the system). What I’ve noticed apart from mitigation of the pain is fairly constant catarrh and flu-like symptoms and I’m sure that’s the detoxification working though it has a long way to go with me!! My wife tried the breakfast once and felt detox symptoms coming on almost immediately! The detoxing isn’t particularly pleasant but the breakfast tastes really good:) My hope is that my ridding the system of all poisons including fluorine, my side effects from Cipro will be shorter lived than they otherwise would be. I understand very little about the “medicines” the herbalist has given me except that he believes they will help heal the tendons and ligaments and help rebuild the mitochondria.

  19. canie January 19, 2019 at 9:21 am Reply

    guys is there anyone who thinks glutamic acid or glycerin could help in detoxfying ?
    i think being floxie could sustain cancer cells i thnk it has amount of flouride
    and toxic chemicals that cause to imbalance hormones ..
    any reviews about what chemicals to avoid ?

    • L January 19, 2019 at 2:20 pm Reply

      There actually is a link to cancer other than that, which is mitochondrial destruction. That also links it to Parkinsons, Alzheimers and ALS. As for what to avoid…probably too many to mention. And then there is the added frustration of different people experiencing different side effects. I think glutathione helped me immensely as I know it has helped others. Yet some say they have had a bad reaction to it. Glutatamine (related to but different from glutamic acid) can help heal the gut, but again, some say that have had problems with it.

  20. canie January 19, 2019 at 9:33 am Reply

    is glutathione can help ..its my first time if ever i will take any opinion ?

    • L January 19, 2019 at 2:22 pm Reply

      just mentioned this briefly in my earlier response to your other question. I think it helped me A LOT, and it has helped others as well. However, some have reacted to it. What I would say is do not waste your money on oral supplements …use either liposomal or get a “push” or IV if you do try it.

    • L January 19, 2019 at 2:23 pm Reply

      Also, you might try NAC (N Acetyl Cysteine) which is a precursor to glutathione.

    • ciprovictim January 21, 2019 at 1:49 pm Reply

      I had a hard reflox with old and new symptoms after taking S acetyl Glutathion 200mg. i was 19 months out.

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