Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




24,539 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Dee November 25, 2019 at 3:07 pm Reply

    Henk. Thank you for your suggestions! I agree that the Derma is trying to take the attention away from the lidocaine and direct it to something else!!!! I still think my reaction is mostly due to the lidocaine since I stopped using the bandaid awhile back. Although I think the lidocaine reaction is what caused the bandaids reaction since I never had a problem with bandaids even “after” my floxing until this procedure. I think I just have to ride it out and the reaction to the lidocaine will slowly calm down. “I hope”!!!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 26, 2019 at 12:37 am Reply

      Hi Dee,the list of adverse reactions to Lidocaine is focussed on healthy people;floxies are even more sensitive.So;your dermatologist obviously doesn’t have the faintest idea od possible adverse reactions to the substance,she uses,or,like most of the doctors,she learned to deny the possibilities of those reactions,claiming those medical substances are perfectly safe.Don’t forget;most of them are totaly brainwashed by the Farmafia,and there’s also that false feeling of honour in such people.

      I think you’re right in choosing to just ride it out;suppressing the imune system doesn’t seem the best way to go,right now.There is a perfectly safe way to threat the itching,though;the juice of a plantago plant.You can find these almost everywhere,on grassfields and especially on places where nettles grow.I consider it a gift of our creator because the juice of that palnt is the best ever medicine against the irritation of nettles,and where’s nettles.there’s (most of the time) Plantago.I’ve both the narrow leaf variation and the one with the big,round leaf growing in my garden (the narrow leaf variation is from seeds I collected in the wild).The CS gel,Don suggested,might be working,as well.

      Dr.Mercola advices probiotica,for allergies,and yesterday I found another article,that research shows,antibiotics cause allergies (by changing the gut flora).From my own experience,the Lactospore,I used,seems to have brought my allergic reactions (hayfever,Latex) down,so,maybe I’m gonna give it a test by wearing my blue jeans again (after my first AB course,with Amoxicillin and Metronidazole I got allergic to the blue dye in blue jeans;it took 1 1/2 to 2 years before I understood that the terrible itching and swelling was caused by that dye.

  2. Dee November 25, 2019 at 3:23 pm Reply

    L thanks for your feedback on the colloidal silver gel. I will check it out. I feel pretty convinced that I had an allergic skin reaction to the lidocaine even though the dermatologist thinks there is no way. She has absolutely no understanding of being floxed! Frustrating! Anyway since I won’t take steroids as I told Henk I guess I’m just going to have to ride it out and hope for the best!!! Have you taken Claritin? Wondering if that might help me??

    • L November 25, 2019 at 6:48 pm Reply

      Not sure if it will help, but yes I have taken all sorts of allergy meds post floxing with no issue

  3. Michael November 26, 2019 at 3:51 am Reply

    Guys, we were talking about the bioptron some time ago. The deal with that is that it uses polarised light through a special filter. Anyway I ordered a second hand unit off ebay with all the coloured lenses for about $350 US including postage to New Zealand. The other thing I have tried for pain relief is the Quell unit which is a kind of wearable TENS device and this seems to help. I’m actually almost totally pain-free now, and it’s only been 5 months since my last dose of a 4 week course of Cipro. However I will point out I am taking pain meds (but no opioids):: low doses of nortriptyline, gabapentin and clonidine (prescribed by a pain specialist). None of those are having any significant side effects right now and they are all non-opioid so I can function well and I am back to work now full-time.

    Hope everyone is doing OK considering the circumstances.


  4. Andrea November 26, 2019 at 4:35 pm Reply

    Hi guys. Has anyone ever took Nystatin? Any shared experience would be greatly appreciated.

  5. L November 26, 2019 at 6:07 pm Reply

    Thought I would share some news with you, since we all wonder on here if our mitochondria can be saved. I had a test done called nutreval (summary was 30 pages!!!) Anyhow, my mitochrondria range was not only high, but VERY high. Good news since I had been told early on that the horrible breathing issue I had was likely mitochondrial damage to the heart muscle. It has been five years, and in that time I have taken ubquinol or mitoq and pqq. Guess i can finally cut back. (my Bs sucked though…need to up that supplementation.)

  6. Dee November 26, 2019 at 6:25 pm Reply

    L. That is awesome great news about your mitochondria!!!! Gives us all great hope!!!

    • Dee November 26, 2019 at 6:27 pm Reply

      L. Can you tell us more about the test. Is it covered by insurance? If not, is it pretty expensive?

      • L November 26, 2019 at 8:18 pm Reply

        It’s likely VERY expensive, but my doctor said insurance would cover it. Again, it is called NutrEval and it is done by Genova Diagnostics. It covers SO many things. EG some of my minerals/and Bs and showing I am low, in spite of taking supplements…but that together with other info on some gut related things suggest I am just not assimilating them…so back on digestive enzymes for me. (Also pointing in this direction is that I am low on acids in spite of having an almost daily smoothie with protein powder that contains all of them. My glutathione was also very high, and I have been taking NAC every day for this whole congestion thing.

    • L November 26, 2019 at 8:11 pm Reply

      That’s why I posted. I wanted people to know that taking ubiquinol or mito q is not just money down the drain. thanks

      • Michael November 26, 2019 at 8:32 pm Reply

        Thanks L that’s good to know. I’ve been taking MitoQ and definitely notice a difference if I don’t take it.

        Lipoid acid
        B complex

        All are helping.


        • L November 26, 2019 at 9:44 pm

          Yes, all good. And he put me back on the ALA. AND mag. I had dropped to 400 mg a day but I guess it’s just not enough. That or it also is because I am not absorbing it well

  7. Don M November 27, 2019 at 9:16 am Reply

    May I make a comment? I get more information (clues about what to do) by reading the posts of all of you than I do from my 5 minute visit with an MD. Shameful, very shameful to have to say.

    • L November 27, 2019 at 10:51 am Reply

      Seriously! (Although now I have a wonderful integrative doctor who works WITH me, and values my opinions.)

      • Don M November 27, 2019 at 11:01 am Reply

        Any doctor who will “actually” listen to you is a treasure. Most are either actually ignorant or play ignorant about the “truth about Fluoroquinolones”. Not surprising though. After about 30 years of writing prescriptions they look pretty dumb if they all the sudden change their view of Fluoriquinolones. The term is called “saving face”.

  8. Don M November 27, 2019 at 10:55 am Reply

    If you are floxie. Which you probably are if you are on this site. You already know what is happening now and has happened to you but you should read this story. I won’t say more. Just read it. http://www.myquinstory.info/the-fluoroquinolones-inconvenient-truth/?fbclid=IwAR2ru9TKbfkWdT4x3jFHhKeCkToUUi3LN_PnqmzCqR9KiIdnwXz434XUMTY

    • L November 27, 2019 at 11:11 am Reply

      I’m sorry I even started reading that. I know this. I don’t need a reminder. And again, everyone is different. I think if you focus on not ever healing, you likely won’t.

      • Madge Hirsch November 28, 2019 at 12:33 pm Reply

        It’s depressing. I read it shortly after it was posted. I know someone who has ALS. He has also suffered from Crohns most of his life and when he told us of his ALS diagnosis the first thing that I wondered was how many times he had been given Cipro when hospitalised with the Crohn’s. I have to say I don’t have much hope of getting better – just hope that I don’t get a lot worse. I had an x ray that showed osteoarthritis in my right hip a few weeks ago and walking has become painful. The left showed no damage but hurts as well. I suspect tendonitis is partly to blame for the pain in each side. At the moment I am trying to wean off my beta blocker and getting some withdrawal symptoms like dizzy spells. At least I hope it’s just withdrawal and not some nasty late gift from Cipro. I am over 4 years out now. Unlike you I never had an initial scattergun severe reaction but a slow deterioration with mainly musculoskeletal problems. Other stuff like neuropathy, chemical sensitivity and vision problems have been very minor -nuisances rather than debilitating.

        • L November 28, 2019 at 1:38 pm

          If you can afford it Madge, I would look into prolozone injections for your hip. And I suspect there are likely tens of thousands walking around who have been diagnosed as havng so many different diseases, that were in fact floxed.

  9. Robert November 27, 2019 at 8:58 pm Reply

    Just found out recently..serious peripheral neuropathy, blown tendon (right bicep), sever lung problems, continuing pneumonia. Veteran….no help from VA. Amazing pain in hands. Any suggestions? Thanks…Robert L. Babcock

    • Michael November 27, 2019 at 9:20 pm Reply

      How many months / weeks out are you? I’m 4 and a half months. The following helped me:

      Alpha Lipoic acid
      Mito Q10
      Epsom salt baths
      Gabapentin for symptomatic relief

    • Robert November 28, 2019 at 8:34 pm Reply

      Taking 3,000 mgs. Gabapentin every day. Codine every night. Hands burning like fire. Blown tendon 5 years ago. Slowly deteriorating last two years. Doctors …no help

      • L November 28, 2019 at 11:06 pm Reply

        Two things, Robert, I would like to suggest. First, for the blown tendon, try a prolozone injection (and/or PRP) I had mine from NDs, but a number of sports medicine doctors now do them. MY ND was cheap. When I have contacted sports MDS they tend to charge way more. It is ozone mixed with procaine and it allows the body to heal itself naturally. I had in both knees after cipro tore both meniscus. It took a few months, but I am back to doing most things (knee wise) that I did before cipro, including modified squats. I did go back and get a second one in one knee and I am fine with that. If I have issues again, I would just go get another prolozone injection. But so far, that is all I have had in the last three years.

        Second thing is this. Gabapentin can have some serious side effects long term. You might want to try low dose naltrexone. It is such a low dose that it has to be compounded, but because it is SO low dose it has virtually no side effects. pain is one of the things it is used for. Here is an article on it. IT’s worth a shot. If it doesn’t work, at least you tried. If it does, you will deal with far fewer (maybe no) side effects…

        • A.Coleman December 2, 2019 at 8:26 am

          L – tell me more about prolozone injections. I too have suffered a torn meniscus in my knee post floxing. I did have a torn meniscus in one knee before being floxed; but then I was able to heal it with physical therapy and rehab – no scoping.

          This time I went to physical therapy again – did all the work; harder than before and saw only mild improvement. It has been so bad that it resulted in me modifying my lifestyle some. I don’t want to start down the road of surgery yet; obviously I probably will need it some day; but in my early 50s I sure hope not. I had been contemplating getting arthroscopic surgery in the spring if it wasn’t better; but this sounds like a better alternative.

          So, do you think my orthopedist would give me the injection? I do note that he immediately commented on how evil flurorquinolones are when I saw him and how many cases he has dealt with that were caused by that drug. Even better, this is a teaching hospital and he told the resident that he would never prescribe it and felt it should only be available in a hospital setting when life threatening conditions warranted – so at least some in the younger generation of doctors are being instructed as to its evils.

          I have an integrated medicine specialist too that I see in a month or so – she might be more likely to prescribe.

          This is the best news I have heard in some time and sure hope I can find someone to give me the injection and it works as well for me as it did for you; especially since the left knee is now starting to show similar symptoms to the first. Even better; maybe it would help the problems the fluoroquinolones caused in my neck – because if that was fixed I would be nearly well.

          I did find this site associated with John Hopkins Medical Center and it sounds like a great alternative – https://www.wellspringhopkins.com/prolozone-injections/

          Thanks – A.Coleman

        • L December 2, 2019 at 11:39 am

          I am a big fan. I never had ANY issues with my knees until Cipro. Within weeks I was unable to use stairs. I kept hearing a “popping” sound. And it was too painful…especially going downstairs. At the time I had major breathing, vision and olfactory problems, not to mention I was losing weight like crazy, so the knees had to wait. Walking got harder and harder until I was using a cane. (One knee was definitely worse than the other, although both had issues.) Once the other stuff started heading in the right direction, I got an MRI of the really bad one and it confirmed the meniscus was torn in several places. I knew I did not want surgery. First, I have read many reports where those who have surgery fare no better a few years down the road than those who don’t. Also, I just didn’t want something that invasive, not to mention accompanying drugs.

          My ND (whom I credit with saving my life and getting me back on the path of healing) suggested the prolozone. I had already read a lot of good things about ozone and I know he had used it on his Lyme and cancer patients and some floxies. It also contains procaine and I was a bit nervous since it is an anesthetic (althought that is not its use here. Here it helps the ozone do its work.) But I decided to go ahead with it. He told me it takes a few months to “work” while it helps the body heal itself naturally. Well, within less time than that I got rid of the cane, and within a few more months I was back to doing pretty much everything, including modified squat. (I cut lunges out altogether.) About a year later I had the other knee done. I ended up needing two injections, spread out over a year. In fact, if any issues come up, I will just go and get another injection. I will not have surgery.

          Now I imagine there are some cases where it might not suffice. But for me—for the foreseeable future, it is the only remedy I will use.

          I know of two NDs I can go to, to get the injections, and I am aware of one orthopedic surgeon who does them. The difference in price is BIG, so I go to the NDs. But this has become much more common place now, and you should not have trouble finding someone to do it.

      • Michael November 28, 2019 at 11:13 pm Reply

        Robert, this device helped me. It’s wearable you put it on your leg and it gives you a small electric current. I’ve been using it every day. They say use it at least 3x per day for 30 days for max effect.


        I don’t know if you are using a TENS device but I think this is slightly different.

        • Michael December 2, 2019 at 12:32 pm

          Hi A.Coleman and Henk

          I do agree with you and I want to come of these meds ASAP. But in the grand scheme of things I’ve only been on them for a few months. They are keeping me going for a while. I also use the Quell TENS and supplements magnesium etc

          I will point out I’m not against mainstream medicine. What happened to me was bad. There was negligence on behalf of the doctors. I was not fully informed of the side effects. I was not advised to stop immediately when I developed paraesthesiae etc BUT without mainstream medicine I would be dead now (I had a very treatment resistant strain of E Coli acute bacterial prostatitis).

          So yes I’m angry. And we all have a good reason to be angry with big pharmaceutical our doctors etc but I’m not rejecting medicine just yet.

          Btw so you can see how open minded I am not only am I using all the supplements many advise here but I’m also doing acupuncture and have ordered a light therapy device.

          Regards to you both


      • Michael November 28, 2019 at 11:24 pm Reply

        also.. I would recommend seeing a pain specialist. A month or two ago I was trying to get on top of my pain with amitriptyline and then nortriptyline, however even at relatively high doses I wasn not getting sufficient relief. The pain specialist gave me the following.
        Gabapentin 300mg three times per day
        nortriptyline 20mg at night
        clondine 25micrograms at night

        He explained that low doses of all of these neuromodulating meds are much better and more effective than taking a very high dose of one.

        So right now I have been able to cut down my meds even further to:
        Gabapentin 300mg twice daily
        nortriptyline 10mg at night
        clonidine 25micrograms at night

        I’m getting very little in the way of side effects as these doses are very low and I am taking no opioids or even any paracetamol any more.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 29, 2019 at 3:37 am

          Hi Michael,and this is for Robert,as well:Gabapentin is a very risky and unhealthy “medicine” with side effects like cancer and suicide,and quite a few others.

          Nortriptyline: a long list of possible adverse reactions! reading this list made me notice that many of these reactions indicat a serieus magnesium defficiency! Take this
          “medicine” and there might lay a lot more troubles for you,ahead.

          Clonidine: irregular heartbeat,slow heartbeat,and depression are among the adverse reactions.And lots more.

          These three “medicines” are probably never tested in combination (well,untill now,with you as a guinea pig :-(( and may cause as of now unknown new adverse reactions.Knowing this,your remark “I am taking no opioids or even any paracetamol any more.”,sounds weird,Paracetamol being the probably safest painkiller,if not overdosed,today.

          Codine/Codeïne:respiratory depression,fast, irregular, pounding, or racing heartbeat or pulse,etc.I don’t know if the “natural” codeïn,made from morfin,is used,or a synthetic/chemical A combination of Paracetamol+ Codein,500/40 or 500/50(mg) makes an effective and strong painkiller,stiil with the addictivity risk from the codeïn,but probably much safer,long term,than the combinations of med’s,both of you are using now.

          The best advice for both of you might be to try if natural painrelievers like curcumin,CBD oil etc. and/or things like meditation,near-infrared light therapy,magnetic pulser works for you.All these can be safely combines,as far as I know,but curcumin sometimes interacts with certain (synthetic/chemical) “medicines” ;you’ll have to do some research on that.

        • Michael November 29, 2019 at 7:08 pm

          I’m just saying what worked for me.

          In Robert’s case he is already taking a substantial dose of gabapentin without good results. It may be that a pain specialist could help him with a different medication or combination of meds.

          Don’t get me wrong I want to be totally off these meds as soon as I can. The Quell device has really helped me also. It works in two ways: first by neuromodulation like classical TENS (gate control theory) secondly by stimulating endorphin production. And you can wear it all day and control it via an app.

          This link shows an up to date treatment algorithm for neuropathic pain:


        • A.Coleman December 2, 2019 at 8:11 am


          Hi, I second Henk’s recommendation to consider getting off these meds – especially gabapentin sooner rather than later. Since your body is now using the Mg and B vitamins that you are supplementing have you tried a few days without any of these meds?

          First few days of withdrawl might be bad – but having been floxed I find it surprising you are so trusting of all these meds.

          I was offered gabapentin for my nerve pain – no nearly forced to take it and I steadfastly refused. I focused on healing using things my body natural needed and used like Mg and B vitamins along with Alpha Lipoic Acid (though I only took that for a about 3 months as taking it as a supplement has its own issues – for another post).

          If nothing else I would keep tapering down as you improve and set yourself a deadline when you will lower your dose or remove it altogether. I know the neuropathy is no fun – from personal experience. Good luck.

      • Don M December 3, 2019 at 8:48 am Reply

        Have you looked into light therapy? It helps with pain. I am talking about near and far infrared lights.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 3, 2019 at 10:08 am Reply

      Another option for treating pain might be a magnetic pulser;I use it all the time (almost on a daily base).You can build one ,yourself (easy and cheap),or buy one. Sota has a great one,which I use,along with one I built,years ago.Both work great but I have only little experience with nerve pains.To be sure,first build one and give it a try.When satisfied,you might want to spend more money and buy one.

  10. joanneg November 28, 2019 at 8:53 am Reply

    Happy Thanksgiving!!🦃🍴
    I pray everyone is at least doing better.

    • Don M November 28, 2019 at 9:02 am Reply

      And the same Happy Thanksgiving to you.

    • L November 28, 2019 at 12:21 pm Reply

      Hey Joann EGG, it’s been a while! Happy Thanksgiving to you too! Hope you are doing well.

  11. READY SCHEME EARNINGS ON THE INTERNET WITH MINIMUM INVESTMENTS from $8883 per day: http://arebizotizox.cf/spas November 29, 2019 at 10:10 pm Reply

    97 Ways to Make Money Online From $7728 per day: http://foosubkeli.tk/7m8if

  12. Henk Noordhuizen November 30, 2019 at 3:38 am Reply

    An inspiring message of hope: a dutch boy and his dream to clean the ocean of plastics,comming true:

    Wow !!!

    A nice weekend,everybody!

    • Don M December 1, 2019 at 7:22 am Reply

      A very interesting video. While watching it I was thinking how great it would be if the $$$$ being wasted by our congressmen and congresswomen trying to unseat our president (here in the US) were channeled into projects like this.

      • L December 1, 2019 at 12:22 pm Reply

        There are actually few things more important than unseating this president. He has rolled back regulations in every area that effect our health, and hastened climate change. He has allowed industrial polluters to pour their waste into our waters. He has rolled back protections/inspections on our food. He has tried to undo California’s regs to limit car exhaust. The list is endless. This president has been a boon for corporate greed and waste.

        • Sheila rogers December 1, 2019 at 3:16 pm

          L. – I TOTALLY agree and as an animal advocate that list is extensive too as to what has been ruined and animals that are on the verge of extinction and some went into extinction due to this admin’s policies regarding caring about anything but money. Health is just one of the many ways this admin has lost it’s mind but the list would fill an encyclopedia at this point….and the total disregard for science is mind bending and that will affect us all when it comes to our personal health.

        • L December 1, 2019 at 6:09 pm

          Me too. I weep at the number of animals who have died/will die under his watch…and making it ok to have “trophy hunting” and all the other abominations. I could go on for days. So much harm to our health, the environment, all living beings, under his “watch.”

        • Madge Hirsch December 2, 2019 at 8:07 am

          Absolutely . The man is an ordure. That’s the worst insult you can use against somebody here in France! He comes across as an ignorant , narcissistic lunatic.

        • L December 2, 2019 at 11:23 am

          Tres Vrai!

        • Krabiwi December 9, 2019 at 12:40 pm

          You guys consume too much liberal mainstream media and are misinformed. He was voted by the majority of americans (ex california), won’t be unseated for the 10’s time and will be voted again. CO2 tale is the biggest hoax in human history and I don’t want to comment on the details, but best would be to keep politics out of Floxiehope. Obama administration also isn’t popular for their fight against pharma and FQ’s.

        • L December 9, 2019 at 2:09 pm

          You have lost all credibility.

        • L December 9, 2019 at 4:12 pm

          And by the way he was not elected by the majority but by the electoral college

        • Sheila rogers December 9, 2019 at 2:16 pm

          FACTS MATTER: Trump garnered 304 electoral votes and Clinton 227 – ELECTORAL VOTES are NOT the same as popular vote
          popular vote is by the people – More Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than any other losing presidential candidate in US history. The Democrat outpaced President-elect Donald Trump by almost 2.9 million votes, with 65,844,954 (48.2%) to his 62,979,879 (46.1%)

          so NO the people did not vote this man in

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 10, 2019 at 2:44 am

          Hi Krabiwi,I FULLY agreee about the CO2 hoax,but wasn’t it a bit clumsy,attacking others on FloxieHope on their political opinions,and than finish with writing:”best would be to keep politics out of FloxieHope”?

          By the way: I’m not at all interested in American politics,and here,in Europe,politics is starting to one big joke,as well.NL is proof:our premier even dares tell everyone that,YES,he’s lying on a regular base,BUT it’s for the better of EVERYBODY! Of course,this is just another of his lies !

          It’s a bad time for societies,when “The Lie” rules!

          Although you can hardly discuss the “scientific health” industry without touching politics,now and than,let’s not forget that the main goal of Lisa’s FloxieHope is,to exchange info on what works,or doesn’t work for us,and what new info or discovery could be interesting for us.

          I’ve started on vit.B3 (Nicotinamide 250 mg),almost a week ago,with,untill now,no negative reactions.Plan to add the Pau D’Arco tea,one of these days,low dosed.Positive results will not be so very clear;they will be subtle,and will take quite a time to get noticable,so,don’t ask me for any positive results in the near future,because the only positive result on short terms would be:” I tolerate this combo”.

          I wonder how Lisa is,right now;can’t wait to hear from her.I hope that the surgery has a 100% positive result (The woman of $ 6.000.000 ;-)) and that she has had no bad reactions from anesthetics,and other meds they might have given her! Be well,Lisa!

  13. Henk Noordhuizen December 1, 2019 at 4:43 am Reply

    Here’s a great article from Dr. Mercola,about our Endocannabinoid System and Human Health.Some of the info might be very usefull for Floxies! Great info in the comments,as well!

    Endocannabinoid System and Human Health:


    • Don M December 1, 2019 at 7:54 am Reply

      Very interesting and informative article. I do use CBD at 33 mg per the 1 ml dropper but not on a regular basis. Cost of the product limits how much is used and how often. Would regular use help us floxies?

      • Henk Noordhuizen December 1, 2019 at 11:59 am Reply

        Don,I think you’re doing right,not to use CBD,or any other cannabinoid on a regular base;this would possibly make your own cannabinoid production lazy.

        • Don M December 1, 2019 at 3:22 pm

          Henk……….. Regarding lazy system. Now that I look back on my life and the many antibiotics I was prescribed I think that my immune system got lazy. I think that my immune system just stepped back and relied on the antibiotics to fight bacteria I came in contact with. I think that the same is true of viruses too. I could walk through a store and end up with a cold. When I began to shelve the antibiotics and doctors who prescribed them and look toward building my immune system life changed.

          Then the floxing symptoms set in.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 2, 2019 at 4:03 am

          Don,when you know how important your intestinal bacterial flora is for your immune system,it isn’t hard to imagine what all those antibiotics do with your immune system.Add the lack of vitamines and minerals in our food,and the handiicapt absorption because of that gut flora damage,and the damage to the inner lining of your guts,and a low vit.D level (vit.D is extremely important for the immune system;less sun in winter time is the reason for colds and influenza;those virusses are here,all year around!).

          In short:the chemicals and synthetic substances,used for growing our foods and “healing” us,are slowly killing every piece of life on this earth,while wars,the climate hoax and television entertainment are used to substract us from what’s really going on.

          You might consider to upper your vit.D level.Forget about the cholesterol hoax,and don’t wash the fats (mainly cholesterol!) from your skin.You NEED them;that cholesterol layer is,where the vitamine D is formed.It takes at least 2 days to form that fatty layer,and after the sun hit it,it takes another 2-3 days for your body to absorb the vit. D through your skin.You can’t fully substitute this by a vit.D supplement.And you need sun,of course;as long as all those airplanes cover the sky with their trails,it’s hard to get enough sunlight for your vit.D production.

          This is how civilizations disappear: suicide by “development”.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 2, 2019 at 4:16 am

          And another reason for our deteriorating health: the countless bad advices from our “science based” healthcare.Avoid the sun,avoild cholesterole,3 grams of salt a day,maximum,etc.Today another article from Mercola,about the importance of Choline,for our health,including miitochondrial health and cognitive health:


          It seems to me that these sick advices are/where:

          * Far from scientific!

          * To create as much customers for their industrial poisons as possible.

          Real medicines grow in the wild,and are not patentable!

        • Barbara Arnold December 2, 2019 at 4:50 am

          Spot on Henk on all your points.

        • Don M December 2, 2019 at 6:47 am

          Henk……….. Just a point about sun exposure and Vitamin D. Arizona summer time is as bad as Northern winters when it comes to getting vitamin D from the sun. Most people live and work under air conditioning so their sun exposure in the summer is very low. For us it is best to supplement too.

          As Barbara Arnold says……….. You are spot on with all your points.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 3, 2019 at 3:21 am

          Thanks,Don and Barbara,but the fact that both of you agree with my points doesn’t excactly comfort me :-((

          Most people,in particular the youngsters,believing everything governments and whitecoats tell them,swallowing their lies like candies and cookies,makes perfectly clear that things have to even get much worse before “The Mass” will,slowly,wake up.And by then,things will be to late,if it isn’t already.

          Some of us have lived through the Flower Power period,when youngsters started to question everything the governments told them.What happened? Why are most youngsters,today,so extremely naïve?Do they think,life is just another computer game? Isn’t there any sense of reality left?

          It’s a sad world!

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 3, 2019 at 10:02 am

          Hi Don,while the temperature in NL is,during summer,quite pleasant,where I live the sky is almost always milky-coloured.When there are no clouds or fog coming in from the sea,and the day starts with a bright blue sky,planes put a layer of trails all over the place,and in less than an hour these trails have spread and prevent UV-B from reaching the ground (and us).Even when these trails are just water vapor,and not the chemicals they might be,blocking those,for health and vit.D production so important UV-B rays is a disaster!

  14. Henk Noordhuizen December 3, 2019 at 9:19 am Reply

    After having tried in vain to visit the bobbeck.com website several times,during the last couple of weeks,I found this message on FB:

    Erzsebet Jung “The website is not accessible, it says “You do not have permission to view this directory or page.”


    Bob Beck Protocol
    Bob Beck Protocol “Thanks for checking in with us – Our website at http://www.bobbeck.com is undergoing some changes and reorganizing – we promise to get it up and running as soon as everything is squared away. It may be a while, but we’ll do our best to speed things along.”

    So,for anyone,interested in info about Bob Beck and his protocol:you’ll have to wait a few weeks before the website is back online.

  15. Andrea December 3, 2019 at 3:01 pm Reply
  16. Ethan December 4, 2019 at 6:08 am Reply

    There is real hope for floxed. I want to tell you the true story of my sister. She is in her early forties, with two children. She took care of two children while working full-time until she could no longer work because she was bed-ridden.
    It all started three years ago, when she got a bladder infection. The doctors gave her Levoquin. At first she felt better. But within three weeks after stopping the antibiotic, she felt all her energy drain. She also got intense joint and muscle pains and other problems, like anxiety and panic attacks. Then a month later she had one of her ankle tendons rupture. She had no idea what was going on with her. Then another tendon ruptured. Then she got brain fog, she could not think right, and her memory stopped working.
    My wife and I did what we could. At first we took her to the doctor and was referred to specialist. But the doctors had no idea what was going on. They said she was making it up. But we know her. She is a real trooper, she never breaks down, and this whole thing wasn’t like her. She had the surgeries. They gave her more drugs, ibuprofen and steroids. This made her worse, and she went downhill until she finally was bedridden and could not walk at all. They said they had no idea what was going on with her. But they had more drugs for her! One doctor even wanted to make an appointment for her with a psychiatrist!
    We had enough and did our own research. We found out about fluoroquinolones, and what these drugs can do to you. The Levoquin had made her sick, months after she took it! Since the doctors did not believe her, she now tried natural things. She changed her diet. She went to an acupuncturist, and took all sorts of herbs and supplements. She took magnesium, and glutathione. They helped some, but she got only a little improvement. She still could not work. She was now also running out of money. Our church prayed for her. Then she came across a story about HomeoCipro on this website.
    We contacted the folks at HomeopathicAssociates.com. Dr Mueller and his wife explained how homeopathic treatment and HomeoLevoquin could help her body fix itself. The Muellers had treated hundreds of floxed cases that have completely recovered. She started the treatment over the phone and was better and out of bed within a month. She got to where she could work again. Then after about five months later, she could no longer afford the treatment and decided to stop taking the medicines. She got worse again, within a month she was bedridden again.
    She called Dr. Mueller, and he to explained that the treatment had not had time to make the full repairs, that so far, it only had improved her functions, and that with continued treatment she could probably recover. She went back to taking the medicines, and in about a year she completely recovered. She is now off the treatment, back to working full time, and says she feels completely back to normal and can even exercise regularly again with no trouble.

  17. Daniel December 4, 2019 at 5:21 pm Reply

    For those who have been diagnosed with Lyme disease, these articles discuss a new treatment that has been described by some as a miracle cure. It is not an antibiotic either, but rather a drug used for treating alcohol abuse. (Who would have thought?)

    Some lyme patients that have been dependent on antibiotics for years are reporting full remissions.


    • Henk Noordhuizen December 5, 2019 at 3:46 am Reply

      Daniel,from what I can find,Disulfiram has some very serieus side effects.It is used to “help” alcohol addicts who want to stop drinking alcohol (by making them sick as hell after just a drop of alcohol),but even when not drinking alcohol at all,these serious,and some even dangerous effects are there.For Floxies,I think this “medicine” is a big NO-NO,and I think the use of it should be restricted to what it’s ment for:Sulfur vulcanization of rubber!

      By the way:Bob Beck known for his Bob Beck protocol has a better solution for stopping alcohol abuse: the Bio Tuner.The technique,used by this device,is used since the 50’s,in Russia,to treat alcoholics (army officers,etc),and it works by stimulating endorfin production.Works in kicking off other drugs as well (Pete Townsend,from The Who, is a welknown and succesfull user).The Bob Beck Protocol is mentioned as a helpfull way in treating Lyme disease,and what I read is,that it helped many to recover.

      • Don M December 5, 2019 at 4:48 am Reply

        Henk…….. Simple question. Why is it that many people who have been floxed gravitate to more drugs for treatment? Drugs are what cause the problem in the first place. Body homeostasis is what is needed and unnatural things like laboratory concocted drugs will NOT allow the body to achieve homeostasis. Natural food and supplements are what is needed.

        Yes ….. I understand that we all have been programmed (fed BS) to think that medical science is the answer when back to basics is a much better answer for most of our problems.

        • L December 5, 2019 at 10:24 am

          People are desperate. It is hard to judge what anyone is going through. For example, when I was first floxed, and again, I would venture to say I was one of the more damaged ones on here…heart, vision, respiratory, connective tissue, ad nauseum. I was getting no sleep. ZERO. And because of either mito damage to the heart muscle or autonomic nervous ustem damage, by breath kept stopping. I would begin to take a breath and it would just cut off…like a door shut. This led me to quite literally gasp for every single breath. I started taking sleeping pills and even WITH the pills, I would get maybe 2 hours before I jolted up, gasping for air. But for months that two hour was the ONLY sleep I got. I weaned myself off as soon a I was able to get 6 hours, and the breathing had somewhat improved.

          More recently an integrative MD that I trust very much suggested low dose naltrexone to me to see if perhaps my current condition is cipro-caused auto-immune. This is an off-label use for autoimmune and for pain, and I would recommend it to anyone who would want to try it. It is so low dose it has to be compounded (4.5 mg tops as opposed to say 50mg.) and has virtually no side effects, although it may cause insomnia in some. It didn’t with me, but all you need to do is take melatonin.

          Of course there are still drugs I would never want…steroids (which I have now been told by a dozen doctors may be the only thing to help me) and certain antibiotics. Not all drugs are created equal…and not everyone is going through the same thing. If I could avoid all pharmaceutical for the rest of my life, I would. But sometimes it is necessary.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 5, 2019 at 1:34 pm

          Hi Don,this question is so hard to answer;every person is different.I needed twenty years of poisoning,with one “med” after another,to wake up and realize that the first “medicine” created the need for the second one,which,in turn…etc.Most of the synthetic/chemical “medicines” is derived from natural medicines;Aspirin from the willow tree,Quinolones from the Cinchona family os tree’s and a few bushes.By the way:quinolones ,also the natural ones,cán give quite severe averse reactions,and Salicine isn’t very friendly to the stomach;not all natural medicines are perfectly safe.

          The main difference is the fact that many of the natural substances can be neutralized by oxidation,and many bacteria and viruses are very sensitive to oxidation as well.Synthetic/chemical substances,in contrast,are,most of them,very stable molecules that can not be oxidated,but the body produces ROS,anyway,which,by the lack of other particles to react with,turns to our celss and in the process damages DNA,mDNA and mitochondria.

          Because most people don’t have a clue to how those modern medicines are related to natural remidies (they were told that natural remedies are quackery),and only a small minority has any knowledge about these herbs,tinctures etc. and know how to use,and prepare them,there’s only one source of medicines available for them; the other possibility,natural remidies,is quackery.

          So,even when somebody is floxed,and starts to understand that modern “medicines” have risks,sometimes very serious risks,for them there’s only one possibility to get out of troubles:taking more of these “medicines”,in reality,relying on modern quackery.And many of them start with a medicine,they don’t even need )like Cipro vor a suspected U.T. infection),and end up eating meals of pills,every day (that’s what I’ve seen happening to my mom,who eventually died at the age of 57 years ( I was 22,at the time,and the eldest of her 4 sons).

          So,the main reasons are,IMHO,indoctrination,and a lack of knowledge about the alternatives,like herbs,healthy foods,and techniques like (near-) infrared light,and electric energy healing like the Bob Beck protocol,etc.In fact,most people consider electricity as being dangerous and are afraid of even the low voltage,needed for Beck protocol,and they don’t have the faintest idea of the importance of electricity in the human body.E.G.:our central nerve system is electro-chemical,and making an EEG is,in fact,measuring the tiny electric signals,produced by our brains.This electronic method will,in the furture,quite probably be one of the standard ways of treating illnesses and diseases.

      • Daniel December 5, 2019 at 7:49 am Reply

        Every medicine has side effects, but if you are dealing with true chronic Lyme and are dependent on antibiotics for the rest of your life, then a few months of Disulfiram sounds like abetter alternative to me.

        I’m not advocating for it, I just thought it was an interesting development.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 5, 2019 at 10:00 am

          “Every medicine has side effects”. Even if this is right,and (for synthetic/chemical “medicines” it probably is, this goes from very mild to dangerous/deadly;nothing new her,for Floxies.But there are only a handfull of tests on humans,which seem to be promising,but,considering the very serious adverse reactions this might prove to be one I would only chosse after having tried most,if not all other possibilities,e.g. the Bob Beck protocol,and combinations of natural antibiotics (+ the Bob Beck Protocol).No sense in going from one bad situation to another bad,or even worse situation.

  18. Lukasz December 6, 2019 at 4:12 pm Reply

    Anyone know if it’s a good idea to take a supplement in liquid-form (drops) which contains vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol), vitamin K2 (menaquinone-7) and vitamin A (palmitate)? My concern lies primarily with the vitamin A palmitate as I’ve heard it might be health-damaging to the kidneys and other organs? Is this valid? Also, vitamin K2 has the letters ‘quin’ in it which worries me since the word fluoroquinolones contains ‘quin’ as well. Is this form of K2 and A something to be worried about?

    My vitamin D levels came back low so I’m trying to supplement and I figured a supplement with K2 would be beneficial for better absorption but I’m worried about it making things worse because of the aforementioned forms of the vitamins, palmitate and menaquinone-7.

    Here’s some additional information…

    Each Serving (0.25 mL) Contains:

    Vitamin A (palmitate) – 151 mcg RAE/EAR – 500 IU
    Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) – 25 mcg – 1000 IU
    Vitamin K2 (menaquinone-7) – 50 mcg

    Non-medicinal Ingredients:
    Medium chain triglycerides, olive oil, flaxseed oil, tocopherols, vanilla cream flavour

    This product does not contain artificial preservatives, colour or sweeteners; corn, dairy, starch, gluten, wheat or yeast.

    Recommended dose is 1 serving (0.25 mL) daily.

    Should I trust this supplement or better to avoid?

    • L December 6, 2019 at 4:32 pm Reply

      I hate when they add extra stuff. Adding K to D makes sense. Not sure why they add the A. Having said that, that is a very small amount. And that is the correct form of K that you want. Don’t worry about that. Not related to the quin in fluoroquinolone

      • Lukasz December 7, 2019 at 6:23 pm Reply


        I’m unhappy about this as well. I went to the health store looking for just D3/K2 combo and was unable to find one besides this one. I mean, there was a couple other options as far as the combo is concerned but they all contained small amounts of D3 compared to this one. It’s a great supplement, I just wish it didn’t have the A in it since as Henk mentioned, it’s likely from an animal source and not vegetable source. Seems suspect that they don’t have any in-between options. I don’t want to buy them on their own since they’re too expensive that way and again, D3 is just too low. I guess it should be fine given that the amounts aren’t high. Would you up the dose in winter months beyond what’s recommended on the bottle or just stick to 0.25 mL? From past research, I remember reading that going above 1000 IUs is perfectly safe.

        What do you think?

        • L December 7, 2019 at 6:36 pm

          I would up the dose. My doctor had me on 1,000 mg for over a year. I took myself down to 500 and have stayed on that now for several years. When I had that test I mentioned before, my D was I a good range. (not the government recommended range, but the range preferred by NDs and integrative doctors which is much higher) The one I use now is by Life extension (has a bit of iodine in it which is fine.) And it has a few different kinds of K1 and K2

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 8, 2019 at 4:13 am

          Lukasz,when you want to be sure about your vit D,,then get it tested.The doc’s recommendation is based on old research (50’s),and a few years ago a researcher discovered a calculation decimal mistake in that research.So,since the 50’s the advice for this vitamine is way too low,but they seem to rather stick to this old advice than admit they (the science based med’s) were wrong,all the time,for over half a century.

          Doing a vit.D test and supplementing according to the test is the best way to go.The regular dose is ment to keep a healthy level from dropping during winter time.And,as I explained,based on wrong calculatings from half a century ago.I think this was published in an article from Dr.Mercola;you might do a search on his website (use his on-page search engine).

        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 1:05 pm

          L, thanks for this info. So 1000mg would be the equivalent of 10000 IU, right? I’m thinking of taking 8000 IUs for the rest of the winter months and then dropping down to 5000 IUs for the rest of the year. Is this rational in your opinion?

          Is this the supplement you use?

          On the shipping info page, they state that this supplement cannot be shipped here because of Canada’s cap on the K dosage which is currently 120mcg. It goes on to say that the only exception is if my family doctor calls a number and gets approval over the phone. He/she would then have to buy it on my behalf. Seems pretty ludicrous to me. Am I missing something here?

        • L December 11, 2019 at 1:18 pm
        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 1:29 pm

          Thanks, Henk. That’s quite something! No wonder all bottles of vitamin D sold here recommend no more than 1,000 IUs. Perhaps they should read 10,000 IUs. As I mentioned above, I think I’ll go up to 8,000 IUs for the upcoming winter months and then scale down to 5,000 IUs for the rest of the months. Sounds fine, right? Also, would you keep K2 capped around 120mcg year-round?

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 11, 2019 at 2:30 pm

          You might consider to scale up your vit.D. by adding the natural way (sun,or special lamp)? As I wrote;this is the best way of supplementing vit.D.By the way;here in the EU we use mg’s,mcg’s etc.You give me a hard time by using those IUs ;-)) Same goes for temperatures;here we use Celcius,not Fahrenheit.I think that,for the moment,you’d better stick to the dose you use right now,and wait a while to see how you react.

          Same goes for the K2 (80-120 mcg) but I think it’s not a good idea to supplement whatever vit. or mineral all year around.

        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 7:04 pm

          For sure. Natural D from the sun is and always will be my preference. Problem is, we’re not getting much sunlight here these days. As for the lamps, I’m still looking around for the right one. Many poor models here and I don’t know enough on the subject to pick out a good one.

          lol… yeah apologies for the different conversion modes. I don’t know why they don’t make it universal. We use celcius here in Canada as well. Not farenheit. They use farenheit in the U.S. As for the International Units, I agree, it’s not the best or easiest model. I’ll stick to 5,000 IUs (D3) and 120mcg (K2) for now. In the sunnier months, I’ll reduce the dosages in half. That way, it shouldn’t reach toxic levels. Hopefully.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 7, 2019 at 3:25 am Reply

      Hi Lukasz.like L. wrote:no reason to worry about this supplement.I use the same forms of D3 and K2,for quite a while,now.The D3,same form and dose,is what I use during the dark season,here,in NL (over half of the year).I use the K2,same form,double your dose (100mcg),for about a year.Did a search on the vit.A (I only use the fully natural form :-)) and found that a dose with health risk is about 300 x higher than the dose in your supp.

      D3 and A are fat-soluble oils;those can accumulate when used over an extended time,in high doses (thats why I prefer betacarotenes from vegetable sources over the palminate form (animal sources)).

      Only little worry I have is the flaxseed oil.The way it’s made (extreme pressure,chemical processes etc.) makes it a no-no for me;where possible,I avoid it.And the first ever research on it’s influence on (human) health has shown that it promotes Alzheimer disease in rats; the research in humans is an “in the wild” research,and we are the guinea pigs.But in the very small dose in your supp it won’t harm,I guess.

      • Lukasz December 7, 2019 at 6:58 pm Reply


        Thanks for the input. I gather your D3 and K2 come in separate bottles? I’m a little concerned about the A palmitate being possibly derived from animal sources. I’m going to call up the company to confirm if it is in fact derived from an animal source. I’m going to look around for vitamin A beta-Carotene on its own as it seems a safer option and if I find one, I’ll have to split up the D3 and K2 as well. I’m sure the costs will be significantly higher than using the present one but it’s peace of mind.

        Thanks for the info re: the flaxseed oil. That’s a bit worrisome. I also use about 1 teaspoon of organic milled golden flax seed (cold milled, 100% raw, GF and non-GMO) in my shakes. Should I be worried about it or is this one fine to use since it’s cold milled? If you were in my shoes, would you continue with this D3/K2/A combo or opt for individual bottles? Also, do you think that upping the dose to 0.50 mL in a week or so is wise or is it better to stick to the recommended dosage of 0.25 mL?

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 8, 2019 at 4:51 am

          Lukasz,my K2 and D3 come in separate packages.And they are not that expensive;you should know by now that I am a low budget guy :-))

          Myy vit. A is pure Carrotene,most of the time I go for the bio-organic versions,and even those are dirt cheap.It’s name:CARROT ;-)) There are more vegables with carrotene;just do a web search on it.

          When you opt for this combo,you can’t double one vit (D) without double the others as well.So,when you want a higher vit. D intake,you may add another vit.D supplement.

          The flaxseed oil in your supp is a very low dose,but I would put high quality olive oil in my in my shake,in stead of that flaxseed.Olive oil is the ONLY healthy vegetable oil (except from palm oil),and flaxseed oil is the most UNhealthy oil.It started a political mistake;the idiots that rule us were convinced that it would be a good idea to let cars drive on flaxseed oil,and they stimulated farmers to grow flaxseed,with enormous amounts of subsidies.But you can only add 15 % of FS oil to fossil fuel,and to drive on 100% FS oil,hou’d have to make a modification to the motor,and from then on you can only drive your car on FS oil.

          So,this political action failed,but in the meantime many farmers had specialized in growing FS,and special equipment to press the oil (and,later on,to make it consumable) was developed.So much mony was put in creating a whole new industry,that was starting to go bankrupt that they descided to put the oil in our food.Because it is a very cheap oil (ment for cars),the food industry turned from the more expensive (and more healthy) oils to flaxseed,and in (also subsidized) marketing adds we were brainwashed ito thinking it is a healthy oil.So healthy,that people mix it in their shakes.

          ALL vegetable oils are promoting heart disease (and who knows,what other health problems),except for olive oil,and,as far as I know,palm oil (but this one is bad for the environment).The old vegetable oil health story,too,was based on bad science,during the 50’s.And there,as well,commercial politics played an important role.

        • Madge Hirsch December 8, 2019 at 9:27 am

          Eating liver once a week ( if you can) and consuming a range of veg rich in beta carotene should give you enough vit A. For a supplement I would go with a good cod liver oil capsule and a vit D supplement on top. Often it is cheaper to take separate supplements rather than looking for combos that might have things you don’t want . I take a prescription D -drops- and I buy a vit K2 supplement .

        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 12:34 pm

          Sorry for my late response to this. I was bed-ridden for the past little while. Thanks for the input. So if I’m taking vitamin D drops and vitamin K drops separately, do I need to watch the dosage on the K? The vitamin D I have is 0.25mcg or 1000 IU per drop. On the K supplement, it’s 30mcg per drop. I’ve been increasing both each day. I started off with one drop each and now I’m up to 4 drops each so 4000 IU of vitamin D and 120mcg of vitamin K. I know vitamin D is safe beyond 4000 IUs but what about vitamin K? Apparently, supplements containing more than 120mcg of vitamin K are not allowed into Canada. Do you guys think I should leave the K at 120mcg and just keep increasing the vitamin D on its own? Also, both of my supplements contain added vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol) which I believe is the natural version of vitamin E but I read somewhere that too much vitamin E can be toxic. Does this only apply to synthetic vitamin E or natural intake as well? Would my amounts be considered toxic?

        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 12:51 pm

          I forgot to mention that this is not the same supplement that I inquired about above. It does not contain vitamin A. Just separate bottles of vitamin D3 and K2 in a base of Medium chain triglycerides from coconut and palm oil and added d-alpha tocopherol. Also, in the U.S., there doesn’t seem to be an issue with higher vitamin K2 doses. I have seen supplements with doses as high as 2,100mcg. Don’t know why Canada is capping it at 120mcg.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 11, 2019 at 2:05 pm

          Lukasz,my vit.D3 comes in little pill’s,and I add a little “sunbath (narrowband UV-B),one or two times a week.In fact,that is by far the best way of getting your vit.D;it goeds right to where it needs to be,while the pills,or,in your case,the oily substance,has to pass your intestinal track,where only part of it is absorbed.

          My K2 comes in capsules,containing 100mcg K2 and 300 mg Alfafa,being the daily dose.Advice (orthomolecular) is 90-180 mcg/day;higher doses are safe,but probably not very usefull.

          So;your vit. D dose is 4 x my dose;better to NOT take a higher dose for a period and just see how you react.Remember;all fat-soluble vitamines can accumulate and,if too high,these vitamines might become toxic to your body.

          Vit E:D-alpha tocopherol comes in natural,but also in a synthetic form;info about this might be found on the package,or on the producer’s website.Both forms should be taken with care;in too high doses may be unsafe.Advice (orthomolecular): 100-200 mg-TE/day.Another advice,same source:it’s better to take the full vit.E complex instead of just one of the eight forms;D-alpha tocopherol is just one of those eight forms.And the natural form is to be prefered;the synthetic form is hardly active,so;more or less useless.

        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 6:40 pm

          My current vitamin D intake is 4,000 IUs (International Units) which is still on the safe side of things. As L mentioned, she took 10,000 IUs (International Units) for a year before lowering her dose to 5,000 IUs. NDs and integrative docs usually recommend 5,000-10,000 IUs of vitamin D daily but I wanted to get your and L’s input on this. It should be fine but the damn added natural vitamin E is still a concern because with taking both the D3 and K2, I’m getting 2x the vitamin E. Mind you, the added natural vitamin E could be in low doses but who knows, it doesn’t say. I may have to swap D for one with no added vitamin E. It’ll still be in the K but at least not both of them such as it is now. But yeah, good to know that K2 is safe up to 180 mcg per day. Thanks for digging up this info. I guess the only way to know if levels are becoming too toxic would be through bloodwork, right?

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 2:53 am

          “the only way to know if levels are becoming too toxic would be through bloodwork, right?”


          And you just found out why some people prefer to by vitamines seperate,not combined.

          About the lamps: mine are Philips Narrowband UV-B lamps (305-315 nm,peaks at 311 nm).Didn’t I send you a link to a canadian dealer,a while ago? Just do a search on “Philips Narrowband UV-B”and you’ll surely find one.Here some info:


          I’ve heard of,and read about the Dr. Schüssler therapee;years ago It was popular,back then.Never tried it,and never met someone who had remarkable,positive experiences with these cell salts.Now,other companies produce these same cell salts,under their own names.Might be a waste of money.

        • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 12:13 pm

          Yup. Sometimes too much of a good thing is just that, too much. Problem is, it’s getting harder and harder to find pure supplements without added ingredients. They add crap into supplements because they know many people won’t notice them.

          As for the cell salts, I’ve only just discovered them. Never even heard of them before, yet like you said, it seems they’ve been on the market for quite some time. I might give them a shot anyway. They shouldn’t hurt me and if they help, then all the better.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 12:39 pm

          Info about Dr.Schüssler and his cell-salts:


        • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 3:53 pm

          Thanks. I don’t know why people are rating them so high. Marketers?

  19. Dee December 7, 2019 at 7:04 am Reply

    Saff, I’m hoping you still check here? You told me you reacted to Lidocaine and the relapse lasted 3 months?? It has been 5 weeks for me and I seem to still be reacting? My skin is reacting the most with small fiber neuropathy including burning and “itching”!! I continue to break out in very small red itchy bumps especially by the two spots that were cut out. Was your relapse pretty bad and did it completely go away??? I’m worrying about this symptom not leaving?? The lidocaine actually gave me some dermatitis by the cut out spots too and both my Derma and Primary Doc want to give me steroid cream which I refused. I just don’t know what to do for my itchy red bumps and skin??? One of my Docs suggested Claritin to combat possible allergic reaction? Have not tried it yet? Any ideas, suggestions from anyone is welcome!! Do you think this reaction will settle down in time??? I am 2.5 years out and was doing pretty well until this mess!! All from 2 “tiny” shots of Lidocaine!! Geez!!!! Just want this to pass!!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 7, 2019 at 7:48 am Reply

      Hi Dee,there are several natural,and safe remedies you might try.The first thing I would try is Plantago.It grows almost everywhere,is perfectly safe (you can even eat it,although I don’t like the taste,but I use it when juicing).You can sometimes buy it in a salve (Plantago salve).It works extremely well for e.g. mosquito bites,and nettle irritation,and is known to help when skin problems like little wounds don’t heal well.

      Çamomile (tea,or in salve form) might help as well,is easy to find and you can drink the part you don’t use on your skin.

      Tea Tree oil could also help (works well on mosquito bites,and as a desinfectant for small wounds),but before using it on larger surfaces,you better do a test on a smll plece on arm or leg to test if you’re not allergic to it.I don’t know if there’s any allergy,known to excist for TT oil,but just to be sure….

      About Claritin:seems to me that something,taken orally,for skin problems,is a bad idea.Why would you want to use something that spreads through your whole body,for a skin problem with a limited surface? It’s way better to treat such a problem with topical applied remedies (imho).

    • L December 7, 2019 at 11:37 am Reply

      Hey Dee, I don’t think there would be any harm in taking the Claritin. I have taken Allegra, Benedryl, and another antihistamine numerous time since being floxed. The thing is, I am not sure you can call it an “allergic reaction” any more than you can call being floxed an “allergic reaction. That said, I don’t think there would be much harm in trying it, on the off chance it is. Have you tried colloidal silver ointment? (Sovereign Silver is a reputable brand)

    • Madge Hirsch December 8, 2019 at 9:39 am Reply

      I have been suffering from hives recently . I dkn’t know if this is a sort of neuropathy or a reaction to trying to wean off my beta blocker. The itching at night has been quite bad and messing up my sleep and on Weds I took an antihistamine -Cetirizine. As far as I can see I have had no side effect from this and though it says one a day on the box the relief lasted more than 72 hours. I have had a return of it today so I have taken another. I have suffered with hives nearly alwags in the winter for years now but sporadically. I think it might be flox related but if I can keep it at bay with 2 antihistamines a week I am prepared to do that as it has never been permanent in the past.

    • saff December 15, 2019 at 10:04 am Reply

      Hi Dee, sorry for the delay in replying! I didn’t have a skin rash redaction to lidocaine, however I do have a lot of allergies and I take Loratadine/Claritin all the time without any issues.

  20. Dee December 7, 2019 at 8:19 am Reply

    Henk, the idea behind the Claritin was if I was having an allergic reaction to the lidocaine hence causing the skin breakouts, itching etc. I was having none of these issues prior to the lidocaine…..I have not taken it as of yet but from what I know most floxies do ok on a anti histamine and don’t have problems??? Obviously my body was extremely sensitive to the lidocaine but after 5 weeks I was wondering now if it triggered some kind of Floxie relapse??? Very strange reaction to small amount of lidocaine!!?? I sure hope it will ease up! Thanks for your suggestions on the topical treatments!

    • Nicole December 7, 2019 at 9:27 am Reply

      Dee I have had a total relapse to a Caine over two years ago with neuropathy, tendon and all my other floxed problems returning worse than it ever was before. Need eye surgery but afraid of Caine’s.I would tell you it lasted over 6 months but just went over my notes to my NP and was really subsiding by month 3.
      I just had to have lidocaine for a bladder scope and do feel some burning and tendon pain but not as bad as last time so maybe because I am further out. This also made me look at all my notes to my NP over the last four years with the same relapse falling apart reactions, crying and wanting to die with no reason. So it’s actually caused me to laugh. I can not prove nor can any of us that a Caine or anything else is causing reactions. We just don’t know. At the same time of the eye drops I had felt so much better and I was really over doing it and stressed to the ends of the earth over a situation. I can honestly say those two things do cause us problems.
      Now about you skin reactions. I did have them at the beginning of my floxing and Claritin did help me and does not hurt me at all. I still use it when what I feel what is my neuropathy burning acts up and it helps. This has made me wonder if I really have burning neuropathy or is the body burning a CNS reaction as the antihistamines help with our histamine!?
      So I do work with a NP and we do everything natural we can but she also recommends antihistamines when needed.
      If you reread Lisa’s recovery story I do believe they helped her.
      The Caine’s are so questionable as are sometimes needed and I have only seen a very few of us that have reacted to them. Most floxies have no problems with Caine’s.
      So my opinion for what it is worth is try the Claritin.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 7, 2019 at 10:36 am Reply

      Dee,what makes me wonder is the fact that those side effects are supposed to last for a short time,from a few hours to,maybe,a few days?I think that they will go away,without any treatment,but ,like litle wounds,musquito bites and other small skin damage,things just take much longer than before we were floxed.When the annoyance is not to bad,I think that patience,maybe a little help from one or more of the natural remiedies,is the best thing to do.

  21. Dee December 7, 2019 at 10:34 am Reply

    Nicole, thank you for your info about your reaction!! I am super happy to hear that it subsided after 3 months!! One other guy on this site said he had a reaction too that subsided in about 3 months so I will keep my fingers crossed!! I think I will try a child Claritin to make sure I seem ok with it and I “hope” it might settle some of this burning and itching down some!!!! You do give me some hope!! Thank you!!!! Sorry to hear you struggled with it back then but it sounds like you might be getting less sensitive as time goes on??? That would be a plus too!!!! I was hoping that are sensitivities calm down with time???🙏🏻🙏🏻

  22. Dee December 7, 2019 at 4:39 pm Reply

    You all are most likely right that the lidocaine is probably past the point of giving me a reaction now. I do think it might have “triggered” some FQ symptoms so I’m thinking I am having a relapse???? “If” that is the case I hope it will be short lived!!! I will try the Claritin (a children’s dose) to see how I do with it? Hopefully it might calm down the itching??? These symptoms only came on after the lidocaine but like you it seems crazy I would still be having a reaction to it after 5 weeks!?? It must have triggered relapse symptoms???? Sooooooo frustrating all this is!!!!

  23. Dee December 8, 2019 at 11:45 am Reply

    Madge. I wonder why you broke out in hives?? As we all know once you have been floxed we get all sorts of surprises!!!!! Anyway, I still haven’t tried the Claritin!! I guess I have paranoia!!! I haven’t heard of Floxie’s really having problems with antihistamines?? I need to get brave and try a small dose to calm this damn itching!!!!

    • Madge Hirsch December 9, 2019 at 5:36 pm Reply

      I don’t really know. I have had hives in winter on and off over many years. They can be a sign of underlying thyroid disease and my thyroid blood tests have been haywire recently. I have put up my thyroxine but floxies sometimes have to be cautious about this. I am also trying to wean off my betablocker . Doing that and tinkering with the thyroxine at the same time might be too much for my system. I had slight dizzy spells for a while which is probably due to beta blocker withdrawal. Some people have to go really slow- a bit like coming off benzos. The beta blocker has stopped your beta receptors from feeling your adrenalin and all of a sudden they have to cope with feeling it again so you can get dizziness and higher heart rate and anxiety. Whether there is more histamine released as well causing hives I don’t know. It doesn’t help that when I saw my GP last week he told me my hip x rays showed I had no cartilage left at all in right hip and I needed a replacement . I really don’t want another major op. The left hip is giving me trouble as well though there is still some cartilage left there. At the moment walking is difficult and I can’t see that improving much. Once your cartilage is destroyed it doesn’t come back. Not at my age.

      • Henk Noordhuizen December 10, 2019 at 3:59 am Reply

        Madge,you wrote that you get hives in winter.Some causes that I can think of: food changes (in winter most of us eat different foods),cold (my skon reacts to cold as well,but not very extreem),and different clothing.After my first AB course,with Amoxicillin and Metronidazole I started having allergic reactions on my legs.Itching,swelling,and,after a while,this got worse,mainly by scratching.It too me almost 3 years before I discovered that the AB had caused an allergy for the blue dye in my jeans.

        After buying new trouwsers (and changing my image ;-)) the allergic reactions subsided,and now I can wear one of my old jeans,for a couple of hours,without any kind of rash.But the Cipro gave me a new allergy: latex.This,too toke a while for me to figure out,and again,changing my clothing (this time,my underpants and socks) solved the problem,more or less.

        What might have helped,as wel,is the care I took for my gut flora,and,in particular,the use of Lactospore,which did an extremely good job of healing my guts.Stools are very stable,now.And because it works on the inner lining of the intestines,you can notice the effect on your skin,as well (“It pampers your skin inside out.” is what is written on their website).Remember:your outer and inner skin are,in fact,not just connected,but are one,big “organ”.

        Here’s a link to the website of Lactospore (I buy mine from Bulkpowders;it’s cheap and worth a try),but effects between persons might differ,in particular in Floxies (I remember,Andrea having some some problems,or it just didn’t work for him):


        • Madge Hirsch December 10, 2019 at 10:47 am

          Thanks Henk- I do not get hives every winter. After my first floxings and before my hypothyroidism was diagnosed I do remember getting them a lot but then not for many years. They were very bad in the early part of 2017 then disappeared till Dec that year. After my op in March 2018 I have not had any till just recently. I am also getting a form of neuropathy that I have not had for a while – the sensation that someone has poured cold water over parts of my scalp. I sometimes get a sensation that part of my skin feels like it is sunburned too. I will investigate the lactospore. I have taken probiotics on and off since my last exposure to Cipro in 2015.

  24. Tricia December 8, 2019 at 1:27 pm Reply

    Has anyone on here had a negative reaction to zinc??? I just started on 50mg earlier this week….since then I have been very lightheaded and now experiencing all the muscle pain once again. I haven’t read anything about adverse effects on zinc, other than too much for a long time can deplete copper…which can lead to anemia and ataxia 😦

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 8, 2019 at 1:45 pm Reply

      Hi Tricia,I’ve used zinc citrate,and zinc picolinate,both 50 mg of zinc in it,for over half of the 3+ years since I was floxed (sept.2016).never had any problems with both forms.Can there be any other reason for the relapse? As far as I remember,you’re the first to report on having problems with a zinc supplement,here,since I joined.

      • Tricia December 8, 2019 at 1:49 pm Reply

        Thanks Henk,
        Im glad the zinc worked out for you ! I’m trying to think really hard on what else it could be….zinc is the only new thing I added recently. Hmmm….it’s a mystery.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 9, 2019 at 2:30 am

          Tricia,most of the time it is not clear what caused the relapse.Even just o cup of tea can cause a relaps,because of the Fluoride it contains.It might be another source of Fluoride (many “medicines” contain Fluoride,to “fortify” them).Some foods,like the tea I mentioned,are rich in Fluoride.And sometimes the relapse is caused with no known reason,like in your case,maybe?

          Like I wrote,my daily dose is same as yours,50 mg.But one problem in Floxies is,that they’re all different.What works well in one may cause problems in another Floxie.

          Why did you start using Zinc? When you whink you need extra Zinc,you might go to a lower dose for a while,Or stop taking it for a while and,maybe,after the symptoms have gone,restart on a lower dose.

      • L December 8, 2019 at 2:32 pm Reply

        ditto. no problems with zinc here either

        • patricia Anne helt December 8, 2019 at 4:26 pm

          L…how much zinc did u take???

        • L December 8, 2019 at 7:14 pm

          Different amounts at different times. I think when I took it alone it was 30 mg. Then it was also in a vision supplement…much less though

  25. Dee December 9, 2019 at 6:40 pm Reply

    Madge, I hope you feel better soon. I know we are all walking on a tightrope trying to keep everything in balance. It is so frustrating trying to figure out what to take, what not to take and try to maintain some kind of normalcy in our life!! I am trying to get past this relapse or reaction to lidocaine!! It just doesn’t seem to be letting up much!! I feel like bees are stinging me and just itchy skin in different areas. I guess the lidocaine triggered a neuropathy relapse or some kind of long term allergic reaction? Just mind boggling and I was feeling so much better before those stupid lidocaine shots!! Argh!! I hope it doesn’t last too long!!?? It is worrying me since it has been going on for 5 weeks!! It just seems so crazy that a small amount of lidocaine would cause all these symptoms to ramp up so much???!!! Anyway, praying it will settle down soon! Madge, I hope things calm down for you too and I don’t blame you for not wanting a hip surgery. Try to hang in there as long as you can with your hip situation!!

    • Madge Hirsch December 10, 2019 at 11:01 am Reply

      Thanks Dee. It always seems to be one thing after another ! I hope you get over your relapse soon. Relapses are so frustrating. I’m afraid that at nearly four and a half years out I have had so many that I have almost stopped hoping for healing and would just settle for not getting worse. There are times when I feel things are improving but they don’t last very long. Having said that I teel much luckier than many here as my reaction has not been severe. My pain is not bad enough to be dependant on painkilkers and though I am more sedentary now than I used to be I have never had the dire mental effects some get. Today I was able to work in the garden for a couple of hours which always cheers me up. I took a Zyrtec on Sunday for the hives and it made me very sleepy. The next time I will try half a pill and see if I can get away with that. My scalp neuropathy has come back too so I am suspecting that the hives might be flox related!

      • A.Coleman December 11, 2019 at 10:34 am Reply

        Madge – you and I are on nearly the same timeline. I was floxed in September of 2015. Sometimes I get frustrated; but other times I realize that I am getting closer to being well. I too have days that are basically normal; but don’t last. The good thing though is that each time it lasts longer. I recently went almost a week or feeling pretty normal. Now I am in the midst of a relapse; but already starting to climb back out after around 10 days.

        I think that the relapses are about the same as when we felt horrible; just now we get that sweet taste of normalcy and it makes a relapse that much harder. What I can say is that my pace of healing is slowing; but I am still healing and still anticipate at least 95% healing someday. That may be another two or three years from now; but I truly believe the day is on the horizon.

        I recently re-read Lisa’s healing stories and updates and you will note that she says she was only 90% healed when she wrote her original story and it took two more years to get to 100%. I am 85% better except at the bottom of relapses and around 90% or more when in those “normal” zones; so that gives me hope.

        I am convinced that how old you are when floxed impacts recovery and is why some of us are still blogging here after four years while others are well after 18 months and on with their lives.

        I wish Lisa asked for more data associated with recovery stories. I think the four biggest things impacting recovery from floxing are:

        1) how much toxin you took
        2) if you were taking anything else (NSAIDs or steroids) at the same time known to make the reaction worse
        3) age at floxing toxic reaction
        4) MTHFR status

        Unfortunately I was in my late 40s when floxed and was taking the maximum dose of NSAIDs (at a Doctor’s order!) and am a C677T heterozygote for MTHFR; that combo has led to slow recovery; but recovery it WILL BE!!!

        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 5:38 pm

          A.Coleman, I’d say you’re spot on with your recovery points. All the things you mention are no doubt vital to overall damage sustained and the rate of which we are to recover. I even think you listed them in the right order since the dosage of toxicity is probably the biggest difference maker between those who have already recovered and as you said, moved on with their lives vs. those of us who are still here struggling. I have no doubt that the amount of toxins/poisons I took in is why I’m still as wrecked as I am. Had I stopped after a day or two I would likely have been long recovered but 10 days of triple poison and 7 additional days of single poison has me still pinned down. Also, one pill of Advil was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Following that pill, KABOOM! I often wonder if I would have made a quick recovery if it wasn’t for that single pill of Advil. It is what it is though. Can’t undo the past. Like you, I hold out hope that I’ll continue to recover and reach full recovery at some point soon.

        • Madge Hirsch December 11, 2019 at 6:33 pm

          My last exposure was in late July 2015 but it was only one capsule. Before that October 2014 – 2 days iv. But I believe I was floxed in 1989/90 and again in 1999. Of course then I knew nothing about floxing. I think I recovered on the whole but seemed to have had a relapse in 2011 after 12 years with no antibiotics apart from prophylactic for a hysterectomy in 2000- no idea what they used. The main problem with the recovery this time is age. I was 63 in 2015. I did not have much of an acute reaction apart from an attack of afib a week after the one capsule but since have experienced a steady deterioration tendon and joint wise. I have no cartilage at all in my right hip joint and though the xray is not so bad on the left the pain there is not much better. Walking has become difficult and I do not think this will improve. Once the joint cartilage has gone that’s it when you are old. I am looking at surgery. Of course this could have happened without Cipro but I doubt it has helped!

  26. Dee December 10, 2019 at 12:04 pm Reply

    Madge, I take Claritin without the decongestant and it doesn’t seem to make me tired? The Reditabs that melt in your mouth. Maybe worth a try??? Thanks for the encouragement. I hope this relapse goes away soon too!! Damn Lidocaine! I won’t be having that ever again!!
    We gotta keep on keeping on!! I’m not a youngster either. I am 63 so healing I’m sure will take me longer. But I don’t give up! I try to keep the faith that I will eventually get there!!!

  27. Dee December 11, 2019 at 11:56 am Reply

    A Coleman, I think you are pretty right on with the 4 factors affecting recovery! Even the flox report (which is old) but I think had a lot of good and accurate information states that the dosage and length of time is very significant to reacting and recovering! We all know there are exceptions when a person reacts very severely to very few pills or low dosage but my guess is that you have a better chance to recover if you took a smaller low dosage treatment. Age was also a factor in the report and believe it or not if you are in your 40s your chances were good to recover! I am 63 and was floxed at 61. I have maybe recovered 80% as far as feeling half normal compared to the first couple of years. I still am struggling with relapses and some lingering symptoms plus new ones from that damn Lidocaine that was given to me 6 weeks ago and seemed to trigger skin issues etc. Anyway even though I know I will heal at a much slower rate then even a 40 year old I still try to hold out hope that I will eventually complete or mostly heal! We gotta have faith and I hope this 63 year old body will stay in the race for me!!! I hope with time I’m not so sensitive to medications (like lidocaine) so I don’t have to be so scared to use a medication if needed. Example….yesterday I had to have another skin growth (which is another new thing) removed and the Derma cut it out with no lidocaine! Ouch!!! Just ridiculous!!! One little small shot of lidocaine makes me react!!?? Go figure!!! Thank you Cipro!!!! Sorry for that….Rant over! My hope is that all of us keep getting better with every week, month and year!!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 11, 2019 at 2:18 pm Reply

      “One little small shot of lidocaine makes me react!!??”

      How about one cup of tea? Happened to me,twice. The first one was PU Erh tea,known to be,and loved for it’s low Fluoride content.The second one a cup where the tea bag had hardly touched the water.I drank tea,all my life;it was my main drink,and I still have dozens of blends and tastes.Might give it another try,as soon as I’ve got a brave (or is it:stupid) moment,but as for now,I gues I’ll have to give,or thow my whole collection away.And this is tea! Not a synthetic substance.

      • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 5:09 pm Reply

        Same. Been unable to have tea since being floxed. Prior to being floxed, no issues with drinking any kind of tea. You name it, I drank it. I hate not being able to drink a cup of tea. It’s tea FFS. Something any human being should be able to drink and tolerate without a bunch of symptoms coming around immediately or not long after.

        • sheila c Rogers December 11, 2019 at 5:27 pm

          Hey guys, can you explain what happens when you drink tea? I had a sudden inability to drink tea the year I was given cipro and now I wonder if it has a connection. Any input would be helpful, I can’t drink hot or cold tea anymore. Thanks.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 2:06 am

          Hi Sheila,both times I drunk tea,I got a relapse of the symptoms,right after I was floxed.In particular the heart palpatations were back.It only lasted for a couple of days.One female farmacist who was floxed did research on the substances in the FQ she had used and the toxic symptoms of them,and she discovered that they were (mainly) caused by the Fluoride.

          The fluoride in FQ’s should have an almost unbreakable bond with the carbon it is attached to,but somehow this bond,under yet unknown circumstances,does break and the fluoride,one of the most aggressive toxins,known to mankind,wrecks havoc throughout our bodies.After that happened you will be super sensitive to even the smallest amount of Fluoride,it seems.

        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 5:56 pm

          Sheila, for me personally, tea brings on a general unwell feeling. After a cup, I’d start to feel somewhat dizzy, spaced out and just plain unwell. I believe it’s due to the fluoride which tea leaves naturally attract. Certain teas have higher levels of fluoride as their leaves attract more of it. Just as many of us develop various food intolerances post-floxing, the same happens when we consume fluoride in our diets or teas. It’s an intolerance. The body is rejecting fluoride from the tea because it’s still traumatized from the excessive amounts it ingested when we took the antibiotics.

        • sheila December 11, 2019 at 6:12 pm

          amazing how that one little pill could be such a bane to my existence – Thank you for your quick response. I know whenever I drink it I want to throw up, I have acid reflux and it’s just horrible. I SOOOO loved sweet iced tea I had a pantry full of different teas and had to throw them all out it was so sad……. do you know if that ever goes away? will I ever be able to drink it ever again??

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 2:26 am

          The amount of fluoride in tea is not related to the kind of tea,Pu Erh being an exeption,but to the amount of Fluoride in the soil on which the tea is grown.And I don’t think that,in case of one of the most aggressive toxins we know,you can talk of “an intolerance”.Our mitochondria are just so screwed up that their function to protect cells from toxins coming in is not working any more.

          That’s the reason why Floxies react so strong to many substances (think synthetic and chemical “medicines”).In fact,that’s the main reason why the Fluoride is added to so many “medicines”;creates easy access for “medicines” to enter our cells,and Quinolones into bacteria.The poison sabotages the defence of not only bacteria,but of our cell’s as well.And because of the damage to the mitochondria,the damage can not be fully repaires;The (m)DNA damage makes this impossible.

          It’s unkown if,the human body is capable to repair the DNA Things like Nicotinamide + Pau D’Arco look promissing,but are experimental;I’m a guinea pig,right now.But even if this works,how do you know if your DNA is fixed? There’s certainly no home DNA test kit on the market.

        • Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 7:23 pm

          Indeed. One pill can change everything. My sister-in-law developed acid reflux after getting floxed last Christmas. I spoke to her earlier today and she’s still dealing with the fallout. A doctor damaged her with Avelox and now she can barely eat or drink anything without reacting. Major issues with her throat including burning, discomfort, acid coming up from her stomach, etc. I had similar issues with my throat but luckily they passed so perhaps in due time, her throat and yours as well will return to good form. Then, you’ll be able to enjoy that sweet iced tea of yours. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you. : )

        • Sheila December 12, 2019 at 10:00 am

          Thank you! I certainly hope my throat returns to normal every day I have to get up an hour earlier in order to cough up the nights congestion none of this was even a tiny issue until after years of cipro

        • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 11:21 am

          Yes, Cipro and another antibiotics have a unique ability to mess with the throat, not just the throat but just about every organ in the human body. I’ve experienced issues with every organ since getting floxed. Strange sensations and at times sharp pains. Like you, I also get mucus build-up throughout the day and night. It was worse before but getting better of late. All in all, these drugs really do a number on one’s health. Really sorry that you have to go through all this. The good news is that over time, our bodies are better able to tolerate toxins like fluoride. For example, when I first got floxed, I would dry heave every single time after brushing my teeth and using city tap water to clear my mouth. These days, this no longer happens. This means that our bodies are better able to adapt to fluoride as time goes on. It’s little consolation but a good sign of a continually regenerating body nevertheless.

        • A.Coleman December 12, 2019 at 2:58 pm

          Oddly, I can still drink tea. I have two twists that may make it work; at least for me.

          First is that I no longer drink tea (of any form – green, black, oolong, etc.) seeped in water. I drink herbal “teas” made from mint, chamomile, etc. While I am sure there are fluoride molecules drawn up by these plants from the soil they must not be as concentrated as in the tea plant. Henk, I think you have mentioned in the past you can still drink herbal teas too.

          I am particularly fond of a turmeric, ginger tea made by the American company Rishi. We all know turmeric and ginger are great. This tea also includes licorice root and lemongrass. It is all organic. I tend to drink this in the winter nearly every day.

          However, I do drink some real tea. I drink matcha tea – but I drink it as a green tea latte. You would think that consuming the whole leaf instead of the steeped leaf would be worse; and it probably would if I didn’t add the milk. I think that is what helps. I only drink one a day; but note that for me I actually feel a bit better after I drink my matcha green tea latte. The caffeine gives me a little jolt (I don’t drink coffee – because I don’t like it) and the milk actually helps soothe my stomach. I had lots of digestive problems that are nearly gone except for morning nausea.

          I may try an experiment and remove the matcha for a few weeks to see if I feel better; but I tend to have a matcha green tea latte at least two or three days a week for the last year; with no noticeable impacts.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 2:10 am

          Hi,A.Coleman.You write that you can still drink tea,but then you write: “I no longer drink tea (of any form – green, black, oolong, etc.) seeped in water. I drink herbal “teas” made from mint, chamomile, etc”.

          Well,the thing with real tea (Camellia sinensis) is probably that it’s grown on Fluoride rich soils,and tehir their nasty habbit to absorb fluorid in large quantities.Fact is,that we need TINY amounts of Fluorid (trace element,found in bones,teeth and,to a lesser degree,in the rest of our body tissue).The amount whe drink and absorb from tea is,for healthy people,no problem,but for some reason,probably because we were poisoned,and Fluorid played a major role in that poisoning and left us with an extreme sensibility for Fluoride.

          More people have reported this sensitivity,but,untill now,no Floxie has reported the same problem with herbal- or flower tea’s.And YES,I,as well love the ginger + turmeric tea (mine,made by a dutch company) it is,in fact inspired by the Golden Milk recipy,but without the milk!

          That you can drink Mate tea,without problems is a bit of a suprise;this tea,too,contains quite a bit of Fluorid.Reasons I can find are the relatively low water temperature,used for Mate tea preparation,maybe the milk,you use,oe maybe bith.

          Question;did yoy,after being floxed,have problems with normal tea?Might it be that,after a certain time this over-sensitivity fades away? That would be great! Like I wrote,some days ago;as soon as I have a brave,or stupid ;-)) moment I want to give tea another try.I’ll do my first ezperiment with Pu Erh tea (low in Fluoride),and will use only half the amount of tea (I usually make my tea quite strong).Or,when the milk plays a role,I might have to get used to tea with milk,like people in GB,and like the elder people,here,did,when I was young(er).

        • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 5:28 pm

          A.Coleman, what did you use to fix your digestive problems besides the turmeric and ginger tea?

        • A.Coleman December 16, 2019 at 2:41 pm

          Henk – I didn’t have a strong noticeable reaction to traditional tea after being floxed; just noticed it didn’t make me feel quite as well; so stopped drinking it and switched to herbals.

          I went almost completely tea free for the first three years after being floxed; maybe one or two cups a season. Then about a year ago started on the matcha lattes for the caffeine and realized they didn’t make me feel bad. I too am surprised I can tolerate; especially since matcha is the ground up whole leaf; not just the steeped leaf that is decanted.

          I suspect that you are right that the low water of the matcha preparation helps and the milk may slow the absorption of some of the fluoride. I didn’t drink tea in my milk prior to the floxing; but used to live in London and learned to take milk in my tea while living there. When you are ready maybe try some weak PuErh tea with a bit of milk ???

          Good luck in returning to your tea someday – I bet it will happen. Have you tried white teas, since they have younger leaves?

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 17, 2019 at 11:24 am

          Don’t make me jealous.Mr. Coleman ;-))

          But yes;I agree.My first experiments with tea will be with Pu Ehr tea (of course;it’s known to be low on fluoride),and added milk.It’s about 1 – 1 1/2 year ago when I drunk the two cups of tea (two different occasions’some weeks in between),so,maybe things have changed.If not,I will have to dump all my tea except the Pu Ehr;the only tea that gets better taste while aging.That’s why it is called the “wine” among the tea’s.

          This is a fact;I tested it and my decades old package tastes way better then the one(s) that I bought 2-3 years ago.Same tea,same package,same company.

        • A.Co December 16, 2019 at 2:48 pm


          Digestion is much better; not completely well. What I did – most importantly almost never gave in and took any kind of acid reflux “medicine”. No PPI; no H2 inhibitor and less than 30 antiacid tablets altogether.

          Mostly it was waiting and giving my body time to heal. I did use de-glycerhized licorice; aloe vera juice; ginger and turmeric along with digestive bitters and Betaine HCL tablets at various times.

          Things that worked the best were TIME – by far the best; 2) ginger; 3)DGL; 4) Betaine HCL; 5) digestive bitters. None of the rest made any impact I could tell including some I didn’t list above.

          Really, it is just giving the digestive system time to heal. Just like fluoroquinolones attack peripheral nerves they attack the digestive systems neurons. You know there are actually more neurons in the gut than in the brain and mine were functioning horribly at one point in time. Now they are working much better – maybe 95% of normal. As my digestion heals other systems in my body are feeling better too because nutrients are getting absorbed and sent to the parts of the body needed by the normal pathways; not through supplementing with vitamins and minerals.

        • Lukasz December 17, 2019 at 10:34 am

          Thanks A.Coleman. Malabsorption issues have been and continue to be my biggest concerns. I’m still unable to gain even a pound. I thought 5 years would be enough time for my digestive issues to get resolved, but apparently not. I think the damage must be pretty severe there but I’m not giving up just yet. I still believe I can restore my digestive health and improve my overall health by doing so. I’m glad you’ve been able to accomplish much of this.

  28. Lukasz December 11, 2019 at 9:23 pm Reply

    Anyone here tried the following?:

    Hyland’s Bioplasma (aka Bio-Xii)
    Hyland’s Biochemic Phosphates

    If so, any positive results and/or negative reactions observed?

    • L December 12, 2019 at 12:03 am Reply

      I have not used those particular ones, but I have not had much luck with Hyland’s products. (To be honest though, I was never certain I was buying the right one. For something like this I think it is good to ask an ND or homeopath)

      • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 12:36 am Reply

        I see. If you don’t mind me asking, did you have a bad reaction to one of them or they simply didn’t do much for your health? I realize you didn’t take these ones specifically, but just curious. Sadly, I can’t afford the services of an ND or homeopath at the moment. Hopefully, in the future though.

        • L December 12, 2019 at 10:41 am

          not a bad reaction. just didn’t work for me. but again, it’s hard to know exactly the right one to get.

        • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 10:54 am

          True. Thanks for the input.

  29. Dee December 12, 2019 at 8:05 am Reply

    Henk. Are you trying the Pau D’ Arco right now? I just read about it on Mercola. It looks like something that would help our damaged cells??? If so, how long have you been taking it?? I wonder if in when it helps repair how long it might take to start working??

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 12:54 pm Reply

      I just started drinking Pau DÁrco tea,4 day’s ago,have no idea how long it takes to notice positive changes,if any,and there’s no way to determine if it works.I use it in combination with Nicotinamide.The taste? Well,let’s start with the smell: it has something in common with some of the incenses I burned in my younger years.And it tastes a bit like it smells ;-)) Not too bad.And untill now,no bad or strange reactions.I take half a teaspoon og the bark on a glass of cooking hot water and drink it in bits,during the day.Next week I might double the dose;one teaspoon is recommended (but they always forget to mention if it’s a flat,or a “full as possible” teaspoon).

      Posting possitive results will take quite a while,if there are in the future.If,in the meantime,I notice negative reactions,related to the tea,I will post them immediatly,of course.If anybody else starts with this tea (combinated with Nicotinamide is Dr. Mercola’s advice,and that from other sources),please,let us know.

  30. Andrea Smith December 12, 2019 at 10:12 am Reply

    Hello everyone I need your help please. I had absolutely no idea these came with dangers. I had an RX here for UTI years ago. Over the past 4 weeks I have had a uti coming back on. Recently I began taking cipro. I think I have taken 7 pills total over the course of 4 weeks. After taking half a pill last night I got on the internet and to my horror and found the warning. I read taking magnesium and calcium right after can block it. I have drank milk, taken tums and also several magnesium tabs. Is there any chance that I may have haulted any damage from the last pill because I quickly took magnesium and calcium? I had absolutely no idea about the toxicity or I would have never taken it. This is horrifying. So far I do not feel any negative affects

    • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 10:30 am Reply

      Hope for the best and prepare for the worst is my advice. if you’re lucky, the damage is minimal. In any case, AVOID ALL NSAIDs if you value your life. Good luck.

      • Andrea Smith December 12, 2019 at 11:22 am Reply

        OMG I am horrified. It sounds as if there is no hope for me.:( When do the side effects generally begin? How does advil worsen it?

        • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 11:33 am

          I wouldn’t go so far as to say there’s no hope. Each floxing is unique and the fact that you’re presently not experiencing any side effects is a good sign. For a lot of people including myself, side effects began immediately. Though it’s important to note that for others, it can take weeks or even months for symptoms to manifest. If you avoid NSAIDs, you might not ever experience a single side effect as NSAIDs seem to be the match to the fire. One Advil pill set off my reaction. That’s why I can’t stress the importance of avoiding ALL NSAIDs. Avoid them for the rest of your life because all it takes it one pill to set off a catostrophic chain of events. I don’t know the mechanisms behind antibiotics and steroids but it’s a combo for disaster. In the meantime, keep up with your magnesium supplements and be aware that Cipro also has the tendency to deplete many vitamins and minerals in the body. You might benefit from testing to see if it depleted any of them. If it did, it’s wise to get those levels back up to normal or better yet, high normal range.

        • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 11:41 am

          *match that starts the fire… sorry for the typo

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 10:47 am Reply

      Andrea,don’t panic.Although getting floxed is a very nasty experience,it’s quite rare.So,chances of not having any bad reaction are good,especially because you’ve used the magnesium supplements.Just keep calm;probably nothing bad will happen.

      • L December 12, 2019 at 10:51 am Reply

        It is NOT quite rare. There are MILLIONS damaged, hundreds of thousands killed, and those are just the ones we know about. Who knows how many millions more are walking around with misdiagnosed fluoroquinolone toxicity?

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 11:37 am

          Compared to the enormeous number of prescriptions it is quite rare,only the fact that it is one of the most prescriped “medicines” in the world is the reason for so many FQ victims.And I take into account the underdiagnosing of fluoroquinolone toxicity,here.There’s no reason to put Andrea into more worries while she’s already in a panic;as for now,and as far as I know,she doesn’t have any bad reactions,yet! Why should you make her even more worried,while she might well be one of the many lucky ones?

        • L December 12, 2019 at 12:54 pm

          It is NOT rare. I used to doctors bro b so dismissive. But a fellow floxie???

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 1:59 pm

          “Yesterday I found 50% of my birds dead in their cage.The other bird was doing fine”

          Perspective matters!

          Thanks for calling me dismissive.

        • L December 12, 2019 at 2:50 pm

          sorry…that’s what happens when I try to post on my phone. Should have read that I am used to doctors being so dismissive but not fellow floxies

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 1:03 am


        • Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 1:05 am


        • Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 1:11 am

          Really,L.? Who are you kidding?

      • Andrea Smith December 12, 2019 at 11:46 am Reply

        Thank you. Gosh I feel like I just signed my death certificate! I am not one to generally take meds so the fact that I took this is unusual. I am glad I split it in half. I have taken some motrin also for tooth ache issues. So I feel like I am doomed. Is there a forum or place to go for support for this? I can’t quite find anything. I feel pretty good generally but amped up now. So Magnesium is a good course of action to at least try something? Anything else to help bind to the drug while it is still in my system. I’ve been drinking milk and took several magnesium suppliments since last night when I ingested 250mg.

        • L December 12, 2019 at 2:48 pm

          Also, up your magnesium intake to 600 to 800 mg, if you can tolerate it. Good forms are taurate, orotate, glycinate, threonate. I would skip the calcium for now and get it from foods. And like Lukasz said, most of us experienced some kind of issues right away, so you may be just fine. In addition to avoiding NSAIDs also, any kinds of steroids. Start taking a good probiotic. All antibiotics mess with your good gut microbiome and the fluoroquinolones seem to do an even “better” job.

        • Sheila December 12, 2019 at 2:48 pm

          Andrea – I am a person who never takes meds never, I only took the cipro for a UTI as for when symptoms start that’s up to your body you may never show any symptoms so go with that until something shows up. Don’t panic – just be aware if you feel something unusual, but please don’t panic.
          For me – I was great one day and that night something happened in my sleep cause I woke up the next morning and felt like I was poured full of lead, my body felt like it weighed 2,000 pounds minimum, I am beginning to feel a bit better after 3 years but my joints are shot and hurt all the time, I told my eye doctor so he is keeping a check on my eyes for any sign of retina issues; my worst symptom is fatigue I feel like I just can’t move my body, I want to sleep all the time but if I try I can’t go to sleep. I also go through insomnia – all this after years of cipro. I read here some other symptoms I don’t have.
          so just know that you are now informed which “knowledge is power” go about your life as you would have before cipro and know that you most likely are very lucky to have stopped before anything happened. For that I will be most thankful FOR you…….
          If you are feeling nothing – that’s what you have – NOTHING. Be thankful. Keep the faith you are ok.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 12:00 pm Reply

      Andrea,just the magnesium will do,for now.Don’t take both magnesium and calcium at the same moment;they are antagonists,and taking both at the same time might cause kidney stones.One thing,good to know:the magnesium you take might linit the effectiveness of the Cipro.

      Actually,staying calm is one of the better things to do;panic will use lots of magnesium;better use it for what you need it for,right now;the Cipro,and helping to prevent you from FQ damage.

      Do I understand it well:did you use only 7 pils,in doses of 1/2 pill,in 4 weeks time? So,you took 125 mg/day,and this one dose,every other day? This is very unusual;normal dose is 2x250mg/day,for 1-2 weeks.Is this the way your doctor prescriped them or did you yourself descided to follow this scheme?

      • Andrea Smith December 12, 2019 at 1:14 pm Reply

        7 pills over a 4 week period they were 500mg each time split in half. Roughly 3500mg total.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 1:28 pm

          So,you took 1/2 pill,every other day? 250 mg,every 2 days?Just like I thought? That’s a very low dose.Was this scheme done with permission or advice from your doctor? Well,with or without him knowing about your scheme,I think you don’t need to worry about adverse reactions.With that low intake,over a four week period,and without any negative reactions untill now,there really is no need for panic!

          One question remains:did this scheme work and did the infection go away? And,of course,I’m curious about the scheme,and the involvement,if there was,of your doctor ;-))

        • Andrea Smith December 12, 2019 at 2:03 pm

          Henk yes that is about right. It did help the infection. No it was not done under doctors orders. I had a partial bottle left from a previous infection (I am not good at finishing my meds) so I saved it. I barely took it the first time. The bottle was a few years old. I had no idea of the warnings against it or I would not have used it. We have high insurance so I thought I would try and see if I could control the infection. The remainders were flushed down the toilet. I can only pray now. Thank you for being so forthcoming and helpful for me. My sincere thoughts and prayers go out to all of you who have been affected by this drug and who are suffering and continue to suffer from it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 12, 2019 at 2:26 pm

          Andrea,I have to make a few remarks,here.First of all;the way you use this antibiotic promotes antibiotic resistance.Please,don’t do that,next time.It might make you the first (but mabe not the last) victim of a bacterial variety you,yourself,created.

          Second: medicines expire,after a certain date;always consult the package for this date before using the medication.

          And third:never flush unused medicines through the toilet;it’s chemical waste and should be handled according to that.

          I really hope your infection is,indeed,fully gone and will stay away for a long time.Now,you can focus on preventing a next one;D-Mannose may help you,there.Lots of info on D-Mannose,here;use the on-page search engine,top-right of this page.Good luck! Glad to have been able to help a bit :-))

        • Sheila December 12, 2019 at 2:56 pm

          Yes Henk you are right – ANDREA – I take D-Mannose for prevention of UTI’s now. I do not take the recommended dose. I actually began by taking 2 in the morning at once and then 2 at night sometimes 1 at lunch but I am now down to 1 or 2 at night and I am fine, if I know that I have not had enough to drink throughout the day I will take 2 at night otherwise it’s just 1. I have not had a UTI for over 3 years now I wish I had found it before cipro. I had also NEVER EVER had a UTI but I went to the beach got in a hot tub and within 2 weeks had a full blown UTI – I would and will never ever get in a hot tub again. It has ruined my life. But D-Mannose is GREAT

        • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 5:11 pm

          Agreed. D-Mannose works and works well. Also, organic pomegranate juice helped me immensely with a bladder infection.

    • Sheila December 12, 2019 at 2:41 pm Reply

      HI, if it makes you feel any better I took cipro for over 3 years sometimes every 4 weeks I was on a 10 day run for over a year and a half then on an off for the next 1 1/2 years it was only in the last few months that I reached my toxicity level and that did it for me and I have been suffering ever since horribly. But each person has their own ceiling of when they reach their own toxicity threshold it just took me years. I hope since you caught it before you are even feeling symptoms that you will be ok.

      • Andrea Smith December 12, 2019 at 3:42 pm Reply

        OH Sheila I am so very sorry. That’s just nuts you were on it for that long. I hear what your saying though. We all have our limits of what our bodies can handle. From here on I am not taking anything RX unless absolutely necessary. I tend to do clean living with vitamins and suppliments and avoid RX meds as much as possible. Looking into some good nutritional suppliments as we speak. Prayers to everyone who is suffering.

  31. Dee December 12, 2019 at 12:13 pm Reply

    Lukasz, I’ve read your recovery story and seen your postings these past 2.5 years since I was floxed. I know you have been through a lot of ups and downs and struggles trying to recover. How are you doing now?? Are things improving for you? Do you feel you are making progress and moving forward?? I pray that day by day, week by week and month by month your body is healing more and more!!

    • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 3:29 pm Reply

      Hi Dee. I guess the best way to sum up my experience thus far is to describe it as a rollercoaster ride. As you referenced in your post, I’ve had many ups and downs over the past 5 years and change. I like to think that the worst is behind me, but as you know from your own experience, with antibiotic-induced toxicity, you just never know what’s around the corner. My recovery is far from achieved, but I have made good strides, especially as of late. I think it’s hard to define being normal or recovered when your mitochondria and DNA, the basis of your identity, are so affected. That’s why I’m not sure if I’ll ever be back to the “normal” version of myself. As I said, what can be defined as normal after a massive DNA assault? But I go on the best way I can. I try to take inspiration from others on here, those who refuse to give up even though they’re as badly damaged as me or even worse off than I’ve been. Their willpower fuels mine. I’m always experimenting with new supplements and methods to regain my health, but the damage is deep on all fronts; physically, mentally and psychologically. Sometimes I wish to die in my sleep. To have this nightmare come to an end. But I also know that at any point in time I can turn the corner and regain much of my health. It’s a long-shot and possibly false hope, I don’t know, but this thought keeps me going for another day.

      Thanks for your prayers.
      How are you getting on?

  32. Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 5:23 pm Reply

    Well, that didn’t take long. Vitamin D3 or K2 is giving me some serious depression / anxiety symptoms. I started with one drop each and been working my way up these last few days and the result is not good. Even have loud, electrical tinnitus occurring as I write this. Body’s not happy. I wonder which one is the culprit. Have any of you experienced problems with either vitamin?

    • Madge Hirsch December 12, 2019 at 6:47 pm Reply

      You might need to up your magnesium. Vit D uses up magnesium as the two work together so that might explain the anxiety.

      • Lukasz December 12, 2019 at 9:38 pm Reply

        Whoa! It does?! No wonder I’ve been feeling brutal this entire week. I’ve barely taken any magnesium since getting floxed but that’s because the couple times I tried to take it, I always felt worse afterwards. Thanks for the heads up, Madge.

        • Don M December 15, 2019 at 6:14 am

          If you feel worse after taking magnesium maybe you are going through a “healing crisis”. https://drjockers.com/experiencing-healing-crisis/

        • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 3:50 pm

          Thanks for sharing the above link, Don. Perhaps I am going through a detox reaction. It’s hard to tell since I almost always feel lousy. What a rash on my lower leg be a sign of detoxing or allergic reaction? It’s a bunch of small red dots in one area and they’re quite itchy.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 2:13 am Reply

      “I started with one drop each and been working my way up these last few days”

      Maybe you up-leveled the dose to fast,or maybe the last doses were too high for you.Be carefull !

      • Lukasz December 13, 2019 at 4:17 pm Reply

        You’re right, Henk. One or the other, or even BOTH scenarios appear to be true. I’m going to hold off on both vitamins for now until things stabilize. The good news is, thanks to Madge’s advice, I’ve gone out and purchased magnesium which seems to be helping with the anxiety. I had calmness for some time after taking it but now as day turns to night, anxiety is returning. How much magnesium is safe per day? Up to 800mg, right?

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 14, 2019 at 3:34 am

          I agree with stopping both the K2 and the D3 for at least a fwe days,and thereafter start on the lowest dose and SLOWLY uplevel.The levels you had in mind might be to high for you anyway.Better let yourself be tested on the main vitamines and minerals of concern,before using the maximum dose of any vit. or mineral.

          The max for oral magnesium is ca.1 gram,but this maximum is there because when taking a higher dose it starts to be laxating,not because it is toxic.Here,again,before taking high doses you better let your level be tested (RBC test).A too high magnesium level is as bad as a too low one,and the symptoms of both are about the same!

        • Don M December 15, 2019 at 6:25 am

          Be aware that most all magnesium’s that are in pill form (information from Dr. Carolyn Dean the specialist in magnesium) are only from 4 to 20% absorbed by the body. The liquid forms of magnesium like Angstrom or Remag are far more absorbable and do not cause loose stools or diarrhea at higher doses. https://www.drcarolyndean.net/

        • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 4:03 pm

          Thanks fellas. I went off both vitamins a few days ago and then got on a powder magnesium for a few days and now I’m dealing with a itchy rash on my lower leg. The rash appears on only one leg and it’s basically a bunch of little red dots in one area. I skipped magnesium today and will be skipping it for a few days at least to see if this rash will go away. The only possible causes of this rash are a vitamin C / collagen supplement I’ve been taking for the past 15 days, the vitamin D3 / K2 supplements I took some days back or the recent powdered magnesium that I took for a few days. So I’m wondering if this rash is a sign of a detox or allergic reaction to one of the aforementioned supplements?

        • L December 15, 2019 at 4:29 pm

          …or none of the above. I know I have had odd side effects pop up that I cannot link to ANY supplement or food or anything. I think it is very unlikely it is any of those supplements you mentioned. On the other hand, it could be something added to the supplement, eg some people might react to magnesium stearate or fillers, binders, preservatives….

          But yes, some people do react to D. I think it depends on the form as well. https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/can-person-reaction-vitamin-d3-10370.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 16, 2019 at 1:57 am

          “The only possible causes of this rash are a vitamin C / collagen supplement I’ve been taking for the past 15 days, the vitamin D3 / K2 supplements I took some days back or the recent powdered magnesium”

          By shear accident I happen to have a rash on my right lower leg as well.It’s feeling rough and dry,and it itches.I had such spots,before,on several places,and I don’t think it has any connection with supplements (I didn’t change my supplement regime,except for the B3 and Pau D’Arco),It’s just “one of those things” that come with AB damage.That rotten poison,besides this rash, also gave me a blue dye allergy (jeans),and a latex allery,and that are just the things happening on the outside!

          What helped me in the passed is CS,and Tea Tree oil.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 16, 2019 at 2:00 am

          My rash started today;noticed ita at wake up.I put on some TT oil,for now.I can’t tell of the CS or the TT oil helped because I use both in combi;first the CS,and when that dried,the TT oil.

        • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 6:48 pm

          I don’t know. I’m still leaning towards it being one of the supplements but I suppose you could be right about it being yet another symptom. I have seen some strange skin marks and rashes in the past, not on my lower leg like this one but other areas.

          The powder magnesium bis-glycinate supplement I’ve been taking has the following ingredients:

          Magnesium (magnesium bisglycinate blend – magnesium oxide, magnesium bis-glycinate chelate, glycine) and Citric Acid (1%).

          The vitamin D3 and K2 supplements that I took right before the magnesium contain these ones:

          Medium chain triglycerides from coconut and palm sunflower oil, d-alpha tocopherol.

          See anything that might cause a skin reaction?

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 16, 2019 at 2:20 am

          As I wrote you,I had the same rash I now have,since this morning,before.That was several years ago,and BEFORE I was floxed,and caused by the Amoxicillin and/or Metronidazole I used in 2004.After that course I got all kinds of skin problems (allergy to blue jeans dye,rash in my face and scalp,etc.),and although there was some clearing up of the symptoms during the following years,Cipro made them come back,and even worse than before.

        • Lukasz December 16, 2019 at 10:00 am

          That’s quite ironic that you also developed a rash on the same leg and same location. It could very well be part of the symptom package. It’s hard to tell with these things. Either way, I’ll keep an eye on it and start reintroducing the supplements that I stopped. This time, I’ll slow down the doses and keep tabs on each one.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 17, 2019 at 4:03 am

          Hi Lukasz,after just rubbing my rash with Tea Tree oil,right after I noticed it,the itching is now gone and the spot feels a bit less dry and rough.Will give it an other rub of TT,to be sure.

          Here a very interesting Article from Dr.Mercola,today,about vit.D. which might interest you ,and others on FH:


        • Lukasz December 17, 2019 at 10:41 am

          Thanks. Good to know there’s something to turn to if the rash becomes problematic.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 17, 2019 at 11:14 am

          Well,Lukasz,this is no garantee that it works as well for you.I remember from the last time,quite a while ago that it took more time to work,and,as far as I remember,I used both CS and TT oil,but I started paying attention to this rash when it was there for weeks,not hours.I had the blue jeans dye allergy,at the time,with gave me far more problems,at the time.

          Have you tead the Mercola article on vit.D? Something usefull,there?

  33. Dee December 12, 2019 at 9:58 pm Reply

    Lukasz, I am glad to hear that you are slowly continuing to improve and heal. I know it is slow for you but you are moving forward in your recovery and I believe in time you will feel closer and closer like your old self again! You do a lot to help yourself and with patience you will get there. As far as me I was doing pretty well and felt 80/85% better after 2.5 years BUT as you probably read I had 2 small lidocaine shots to remove a couple benign skin growths and all hell broke loose. The shots were 6 weeks ago and it ramped up my neuropathy and gave me itchy skin and random itchy red bumps popping up here and there. It hasn’t let up yet and is starting to worry me that it won’t go away. I can’t imagine that I am still reacting to the lidocaine 6 weeks later?? I’m thinking the lidocaine triggered some kind of FQ flare or relapse? I don’t know what to do for the itching and red bumps???? Anyway if that would let up I would feel much closer to getting close to “normal”!! I’m 63 so I’m probably not going to bounce back as fast. I just want this itchy skin issue to be done and leave. I’m scared it won’t go away. I Keep holding out hope that eventually it will. Let’s keep the faith and keep getting better. I hate setbacks and flareups. It is discouraging and frustrating. Anyway trying to stay positive.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 2:23 am Reply

      Hi Dee,like I wrote before:recovery in floxies goes very slow;just simple mosquito bites take at least 1-1 1/2 monts to disappear,scratches on my skin,formerly gone in just a few days,now take 2 month’s! Before I was floxed,people were amazed about how quickly these kind of things healed on my body,but now they really take ages.In the end,they do heal and disappear,and I think that your bumps and itching will probably do the same.Have you tried one or more os the suggestions for natural remedies,I gave you,yet? Maybe they will,and (except,maybe,the Tea Trea oil) they are perfectly safe for floxies.

    • Lukasz December 13, 2019 at 4:30 pm Reply

      I hope your right, Dee. I don’t want to find myself in this state for too much longer. It really impacts my quality of life.

      I’ve read the posts re: your Lidocaine reaction. It’s really unfortunate that these injections set you back like this. It goes to show that any chemical, even in small quantities, has the potential to do harm in us. I hope your situation resolves soon and I’m glad you’re doing better overall. It’s all about progress.

      • Madge Hirsch December 15, 2019 at 12:48 pm Reply

        Hi Lucasz – from reading your posts I get the impression that you are flailing around a bit when it comes to supplements and that you expect a result too quickly. Often taking a supplement will take several weeks if not months before results are seen. Stopping and starting things will just confuse your body. I would continue your vit D and K and magnesium but put the magnesium up slowly. Start with 300 or 400 mg a day spread out in 3 or 4 doses over the day and see how it goes. If you have no bowel issues you could then put it up but again slowly. Myself I take 300 mg of magnesium taurate in 3 doses. Mag taurate is heart friendly and has helped my atrial fibrillation. I also do not get panic attacks any more though that could be because I am on a beta blocker . I eat magnesium highfood like nuts and home grown green veg. Argula ( rocket) salad is very high in magnesium also asparagus.

        • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 4:23 pm

          Hi Madge. I realize that supplements take time to work but I seem to have quite a high intolerance to many supplements which causes me to abandon some of them before they have a chance to work. I try to give them all a fair chance, but I usually know within a week which ones are helping and which ones are being rejected by my body. As I mentioned to Henk and Don, I’m not experiencing an itchy rash on my lower leg and one of the supplements I’ve been taking is for sure responsible for it. Problem is, I have to stop them one by one to find out which one caused it. As I mentioned to them, it can only be a vitamin C / collagen combo supplement, vitamin D3 / K2 drops, or the most recent powder magnesium (magnesium bisglycinate) which I only took for a few days. I stopped the vitamins and magnesium to see if it will disappear but am continuing with the vitamin C / collagen combo supplement. I’m guessing it can take several days for rashes of this kind to disappear when the problematic supplement is stopped? I’ll heed your advice and start up the other supplements slowly once I find out they weren’t the cause of the rash.

        • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 4:25 pm

          *I’m NOW experiencing… another typo… sorry about that.

        • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 4:34 pm

          Btw, I was taking 200mg of the magnesium in the AM and another 200mg in the PM. So 400mg total each day. The recommended dosage on the bottle is 200-400 mgs for adults but numerous people here have said upwards of 800mg is fine. Perhaps it would’ve been a good idea to start with 100mg for a few days and work up the dose from there. That’s what I’ll do next if I find out that the magnesium wasn’t responsible for the rash on my leg. Should magnesium be taken with food or without? Or does it not make any difference?

        • L December 15, 2019 at 6:03 pm

          I don’t think it makes a difference because many recommend taking some before bed to help with sleep. I take some with dinner and some at bedtime.

        • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 6:56 pm

          I thought maybe it absorbed better with food but you’re right, taking it before bed is a good idea. What’s your current dose throughout the day? Are you taking a powdered version?

        • L December 15, 2019 at 8:48 pm

          never quite sure who you are talking to 🙂 But since I mentioned taking it before bed…it varies. sometimes it’s a half hour before, sometime I forgot and take it right before I hop in…

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 16, 2019 at 2:36 am

          I think he doesn’t use the reply button in the mail he wants to react to,but the reply button to his own postings,on the website.As long as he starts with the name to which he refers,nothing wrong.And in case anybody else has an answer to his question(s),that’s alright as well.

          I think that magn. is not neccesarely used in combi with food;some people even have a bad experience,doing that.Magn. is alkaline,and neutralizes the stomach acid.Taking magn. in the evening improves your sleep.

        • Lukasz December 16, 2019 at 10:10 am

          L., Henk, the option to reply to each individual message doesn’t appear for me. I’m only able to reply to my own posting and/or the end of the conversation. I let Lisa know about this awhile back. I don’t think there was a solution to this problem else she would have taken care of it. I think it’s just the way the website is setup. As you pointed out, I try to include the person’s username as much as possible to make it more clear who it is I’m replying to.

          Thanks for the info re: magnesium. Good to know that it can be taken at any time of the day and not necessarily with food.

  34. Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 1:01 am Reply

    Today Dr.Mercola has a very interesting article about Molecular Hydrogen,with lots of info about ROS and other,related subjects.Good Read for Lisa,Krabiwi and others who like a bit of science,but might be a bit too complicated for some of us:


  35. Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 3:36 am Reply

    A good insight into the drugs market,and how it’s manipulated in legal and illegal ways:


    Very interesting website;I get updates in my mailbox,once a month and most of the time their info and actions are great!

  36. Attsy December 13, 2019 at 6:24 am Reply

    Hi, just want to let you know that I finally find a naturopath! And also I have a very good physio now, so I don’t have that enormous back pain anymore. I also almost get rid of trigeminal neuralgia by using CBD oil. Unfortunately my gut is not in good form. I catch stomach bug very often from people around me and don’t accept most of the painkillers. I wanted to get tested for SIBO but couldn’t find a doctor to do it. Also my thyroid went really bad and it was not that bad 1 year ago, my body is not accepting the thyroid medication – I have all the side effects. But at least I have to admit that I don’t suffer the whole body pain as I did before. So I sleep finally well. If the stomach issues are gone I could say I would be fine. Out of desperation I tried SSRI – which only resulted in more pain and weight loss. I am trying now the best probiotic in our market so I hope to get some results. The progress is very slow though. I have not found a doctor who would believe that antibiotics could mess with gut flora, which I still find a bit strange. How are all of you doing? Anything new which helped you in recovery? I have not been here for a few months.

    • Don M December 13, 2019 at 7:08 am Reply

      Your search for an honest doctor??? By their very nature doctors are evasive and many times are not telling the truth. They are artists at doing this by omission. It seems that their mantra is that if they can’t test for it or don’t know anything about it ignore it. Don’t just ignore it but in many cases try to discredit the truth by our belief of their (supposed) vast knowledge. It certainly appears that it has come to a point where finding that “honest doctor” is more a dream than reality.

      Am I biased? You bet I am!!!

      • Attsy December 13, 2019 at 7:12 am Reply

        yes Don know this very well, I was stupid to tell my last doctor about antibiotics, he started to laugh and called me crazy, since that time he refused to have anything with me :/, they lied to me so many times……..thats why I am happy to find a naturopath but I will see how it will go

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 13, 2019 at 9:17 am

          Attsy,what a nice and polite doctor,you had :-(( I’m glad for you,having found the naturopath.

        • Attsy December 13, 2019 at 11:10 am

          I know Henk, thought these doctors are just in USA…..you know I am pretty calm person, but when I was sitting there I felt like stupid…..he didn’t even send me copy of my medical records, seems that since I was floxed I have even worse luck than before 😀 but that is just my feeling I guess.

  37. Larry Geiger December 13, 2019 at 12:19 pm Reply

    Hello So how many of you have aortic involvement and if so how much cipro was taken?

  38. David Pollard December 13, 2019 at 2:42 pm Reply

    I’m so glad that I now see some realization that those of us who were floxed had magnesium leeched out of us at the mitochondrial level. It’s magnesium ! The reality continues to be that every fluoroquinolone symptom is directly related to magnesium deficiency. Do some research. I’ve been floxed twice. In both cases 800 mg a day reversed symptoms over a few months. The longer you wait before loading up on magnesium, the longer you wait for recovery and the more likely your connective tissue in your heart, lungs, tendons will deteriorate. I was unable to take a step and neuropathy and tendon damage made it impossible to even unplug a toaster. I’m now fully recovered. My integrative medicine practitioner and family doctor agreed that magnesium was the culprit. Blood tests won’t show this because only one percent of your magnesium is in your blood.
    In addition, new studies show that tetracycline 200 mg a day prevents the destruction of connective tissue. Canadian physicians are becoming more savvy on how to treat this debilitating illness.

    • L December 13, 2019 at 3:22 pm Reply

      Magnesium is crucial, but it is not a magic bullet. It will not fix permanent nerve damage, or vision damage, or tinnitus, or ravaged gut microbiome, or a multitude of other side effects.

      • Lukasz December 13, 2019 at 7:22 pm Reply

        Good point.

  39. David Pollard December 13, 2019 at 3:23 pm Reply

    Just in case you were wondering why epsom salt baths are so helpful. That’s because you are literally sitting in a MAGNESIUM bath. When Epsom salts are dissolved in water they release magnesium and sulfate ions.

  40. David Pollard December 13, 2019 at 3:29 pm Reply

    The symptoms you mention were caused by a lack of magnesium. Once the damage has occurred you will need other therapies and supplements. Specialists in this area are in agreement. You are experiencing these symptoms because of a magnesium deficiency. If you didn’t get direction to start a magnesium regimen immediately, you will have complications. It is the magic bullet if started immediately in large doses. Trust me …. I’ve seen the best specialists in the field of mitochondrial depletion.

    • L December 13, 2019 at 5:43 pm Reply

      Again, a lack of magnesium plays a role in SOME side effects, but not all.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 14, 2019 at 5:15 am Reply

      “The symptoms you mention were caused by a lack of magnesium.”

      Not true! The symptoms were caused by the FQ toxification! And a high magnesium level could help in limiting the damage,and symptoms,like an adequate Selenium level does,but magnesium is definitely NOT the Magic Bullet!

      How do I know? Well,at the moment I started the Cipro course I was already on a magnesium regime,for years! Both oral (citrate 400 mg) and intradermal (Epsom sal bathes,later on mainly magnesium oil). Take my presence,here,on FloxieHope as a proof that your claim is incorrect!

      You clain that studies show that our connective tissue damage could have been prevented by taking yet another AB (tetracycline 200 mg),ading to the gut flore damage? Where is the science? Please,place a link to the article(s).

      ” I’ve seen the best specialists in the field of mitochondrial depletion”

      Please name us the specialists;most,if not all of them will have a website;links might be helpfull.

      “The symptoms you mention were caused by a lack of magnesium.Specialists in this area are in agreement”

      Once,again:names and links,please.All Floxies,here,are eager to learn everything that might be of help.

      I am glad for you,that magnesium worked miracles and you (fully?) recovered;believe me.But posting claims that look promissing,but without any links to the sources,and the science,is far from helpfull.

  41. Don M December 13, 2019 at 4:36 pm Reply

    Just a heads up to anyone who is plagued with Interstitial Cystitis or any other painful bladder problems. Freeze dried Aloe Vera is said to work against this problem. Desert Harvest has a freeze dried Aloe product that they claim is the strongest on the market. Their product is also expensive but I found that by contacting the company directly they have several discounts that can materially lower the price. They discount to active and retired military personnel, those on Medicare or Medicaid, and several other discounts. Also volume discounts too. If you are looking for a product check out this one and compare the discounted prices. Maybe the best is not that expensive.

    • L December 13, 2019 at 5:44 pm Reply

      yes, I had mentioned this a few times before. Worked for me. And it is important to get the freeze dried…not liquid

      • Don M December 13, 2019 at 6:16 pm Reply

        It was your comment about it that put me on to it. I tried another brand but decided to try the Desert Harvest. When I called them he started calling off the different discounts it made the cost a whole lot closer to the other lesser brands.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 14, 2019 at 3:41 am Reply

      “Freeze dried Aloe Vera is said to work ”

      Is there any reliable science available for this claim,Don? Mind you;this company sells an expensive product,and thtat’s reason enough tp be skeptic.Companies,sometimes,even create their own science,just like the Farmafia does.Have you read the PDF I linked to,yesterday (openmarketinstitutes.org)? It shows one other side of the many,concerning the Farmafia!

  42. Lukasz December 13, 2019 at 5:26 pm Reply

    Another puzzle to solve…

    Is there a way to resolve FQ damage in the vicinity of the eye socket? My right eye was severely impacted from day 1 and it continues to bother me to this day, including at present moment. The damage seems to be just below the eye itself, just above my cheekbone. I use the word “damage” because I don’t know if it’s nerve-related or what. Even the eye feels like it might have suffered damage from the FQ. Is there any natural methods to remedy this?

    • L December 13, 2019 at 6:09 pm Reply

      What exactly is the issue? Feeling pain? pressure? I had so much eye damage… At one point I was seeing two different images. (Not double vision, but two distinct images) because my brain wasn’t melding them, something we do naturally. Nerve damage. I had loss of visual acuity. Went from 20/30 to 20/60. I had so many floaters that walls and floors would be covered with hundreds of little black spots, and so many of those whispy ones that it was (as a fellow floxie so perfectly put it) like looking through egg drop soup for two years. (Vitreal damage) I was also diagnosed with macular degeneration. (mitochondrial damage?) Anyhow, I take an eye vitamin everyday with all the nutrients in the AREDS 2 one from a study and also more things that are supposed to benefit the eyes, like bilberry and astaxanthin. The rest just took a long time to go away (not entirely for any of it.)

      • Lukasz December 13, 2019 at 7:13 pm Reply

        I would describe it as a crawling sensation. My very first symptom after taking the triple “therapy” aka Clarithromycin, Metronidazole and a PPI, was sudden muscle spasms in the vicinity of the right eye. These days, this feels more like a crawling movement than a muscle spasm but who knows? It could still be a muscle spasm. There’s no pain to it, it’s just a very uncomfortable feeling which comes and goes. Additionally, my vision hasn’t been the same since the floxings and gets worse at night. Any idea what this might be? Nerve damage or could it be something else?

        I’m curious to know if the eye vitamin you take on a daily basis was responsible for the improvements with your vision? These are eye drops we’re talking about, right?

        • L December 13, 2019 at 7:42 pm

          Hmmm. Could be nerve damage. I had more nerve damage than anything. Of all my 30+ side effects, a good chunk was nerve damage (visual, olfactory, tinnitus, peripheral neuropathy…) As for the eye vitamins they are mostly to help me keep from getting worse with the macular degeneration. Are they helping? Who knows. But as far as the bazillion floaters, I do think the eye drops I took helped with that. They are drops that are more for cataracts, but apparently they seem to also effect floaters. I used them religiously twice a day for a year. They are N- acetyl cysteine drops. I have used two brands, Can-C and Vision Clarity. Other than cataracts and floaters, don’t think they would really help you. There are some supplements that are supposed to help strengthen nerves like say acetyl l-carnitine. Seems everything a crapshoot. I have spent over $60,000 so far getting better…a chunk of it for things that really helped, like all the 120+ IVs…but thousands on other stuff that didn’t. And this congestion thing that has gone on for over two years now has cost thousands, with no end in sight. I can’t tell you how many nights I thought I would actually suffocate to death because I couldn’t clear my lungs. So far, 5 ENTS, 2 allergists, two pulmonologists, several integrative MDs, an acupuncturist and Traditional Chinese Medicine, and a couple NDs. And NO answers. Two really unpleasant nasal procedures, tons of supplements and few pharmaceuticals…nothing… (sorry, went off track there from the eye issue)

        • Lukasz December 13, 2019 at 8:31 pm

          Sorry to hear that you’re still dealing with this congestion issue. Even though we have different, yet many similar symptoms we’re contending with, I feel your pain 100%. It’s terrible to go through this experience. The financial burden only adds to the pain. I’ve just returned from my local health food store, and EVERYONE there knows me all too well. I’m the sick guy who’s always inquiring about and buying supplements. I hate this type of life. Prior to getting messed up by these pharmaceuticals, I didn’t take a single supplement all my life. NOT ONE. Since the ADRs began, I’ve gone through hundreds of different supplements. Not because I enjoy popping pills but because I’m desperate to regain my health. I’m trying to undo what doctors caused. How ironic is that?! It’s all a guessing game too. There’s no way of knowing what will help, and what will make us worse, but when you’ve been ill for a long time, you’ll do whatever it takes to try to get your health back. Even at ridiculous costs.

          I’m going to just have to keep ignoring this eye issue for now. Perhaps my connective tissue is damaged there. If it doesn’t resolve soon, I may have no choice but to pay a visit to an ophthalmologist (interesting title!). Just another problem to add to my long list of health problems.

        • L December 13, 2019 at 11:14 pm

          Yeah, ironically before this, the ONLY supplement I took was calcium. Now it’s the only one I don’t take! It’ bad enough when you have to stay on supplements, but worse when you buy a bottle, take one or a few pills and realize you can’t take it. I also have a bag full of supplement that didn’t bother me, but I stopped because they felt like they weren’t doing anything. The worst part of this congestion thing is when I am trying to sleep at night, and I can’t even begin to fall asleep because I can’t clear my lungs and I feel like I am drowning of suffocating.

          Finding an integrative opthalmologist may be the most difficult. Not even sure they exist. But I did find one who happens to live in the area who invented, along with another doctor, a laser light therapy to keep macular degeneration from worsening. It’s pretty new and he has only published a couple papers on it, but I was fortunate that he lives in my county. No one else has anything to offer.

          I wish you well, and hope you can get some enjoyment from the season..

        • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 6:12 pm

          Yup! I’ve had to stop quite a few supplements because they were either making me feel worse or as you pointed out, weren’t doing anything beneficial. Then you’re stuck with the supplement. There’s A LOT of supplements out there, but very few actually improve health or take it to the next level. I’m still hopeful that there’s one or two out there that can improve my situation, especially my gut which I suspect is causing most of my symptoms.

          Thanks. I hope your festive season is a good one as well. Hopefully we can all have a bit of a breather.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 14, 2019 at 3:52 am Reply

      Just the same problem here,and the same eye.This was also the eye that caused the double vision,due=ring my second year as a Floxie.Double vision is mostly gone,now,with minor flare up’s,every now and then.Id id use my Magnetic Pulser on it but I have no Idea if that was what helped to get rid of the vision problems.Too much unknown’s on the cause(s) of these problems.

      • Lukasz December 15, 2019 at 6:19 pm Reply

        Strangely enough, it’s gotten better over the last 2 days. Less discomfort, for now. I wish I knew exactly what’s going on there. i.e. Nerve or connective tissue damage? Muscle spasm? etc. Then again, even if I knew, I doubt there’s anything out there to help keep it under control.

  43. Larry December 13, 2019 at 11:58 pm Reply

    I’ve read a lot of stories about people getting and recovering from nerve damage on this site. No one mentions strange changes in temperature sensation. So I have the tingling, burning etc. all over my body. I can still feel hot and cold but they feel strange. Not normal. Can anyone relate?

    In the early months of getting poisoned, I also had a numb mouth which left me with no sense of taste or smell. Fortunately that has come back, but my parts of my lips still tingle and the left side of my tongue. Never heard anyone speak of this either. Any insights?

    • L December 14, 2019 at 12:47 am Reply

      I got numb toes as one of my side effects. And sometimes they will feel cold but I’ll touch them and they are actually warm. That is one of my many side effects that never went away. But actually the least of my problems. And at one point the numbness had gone all the way up my calves. But it went down and settled just on the toe region.

      • Larry December 14, 2019 at 1:19 am Reply

        I’d love to only have numb toes but I’m jacked up from scalp to toe front and back. I don’t even know if I have numbness to tell you the truth or maybe partially numb maybe? I can feel everything pretty normal I think. But It feels like I have a layer of sand paper all over me, and if that layer were removed I’d be normal again. But yet it doesn’t hurt me when I physically touch the painful areas. It like this constant sensation that doesn’t really change. Oddly, there are times when I wake up in the morning and I feel 100% normal again like nothing is wrong but as soon as I get to moving around the sand paper feeling comes back. That actually happened today and I got pissed off when that sensation came back and ran out the house in tears. This is all so frustrating as everyone here knows.

        • Attsy December 14, 2019 at 3:55 am

          Larry, I have burning sensation here and there. I have it in my colon, it’s like acid, like I ate something really hot, it’s very annoying. I used to have it in my legs and a lot in my back, but that diminished. And I usually feel my best in the morning but more I move/eat the feeling is slowly coming back. I am unsure what is the trigger, but I would say physical activity, the rest is the best. Sometimes warm water helps, sometimes sleeping, sometimes nothing. And I also have that feeling if I could remove the burning layer I would be comepletely fine. I don’t know how to get rid of it, the only thing I know that I didn’t have it before I was floxed.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 14, 2019 at 4:33 am

          Sounds a bit like the numb places I have on my body.Definetly nerve damage: I got this while on my first,ot two AB courses.Large parts of my legs and feet,other parts on the rest of my body.Still feel pressure on those places but when I gently rub them,I don’t feel that anymoreBest comparison is how it feels when you come out of the freezing cold,and your fingers feel numb.Nerve damage;I don’t know if the Amoxicillin or the Metronidazole caused it,or both.

          Later,several doctors admitted that that was an insane AB course.AFter FQ poisoning I think that,when not a matter of life and death,EVERY AB course is insine;to many cells,and your mitochondria are closelu resembling the bacteria they once,during evolution,were.

        • L December 14, 2019 at 10:58 am

          Yeah, I can’t tell you how many time I have said “I’d be fine if I just had the numb toes…but like I said, that was the LEAST of the head to toe side effects, including several ograns, vision, and just nightmarish breathing and olfactory nerve damage and so much more. With the toes it’s pretty easy to tell it’s numbness. I have to look and actually place sandals on them. Can’t just slide them on, because I can’t feel where they are going. I didn’t have that sandpaper like feeling. Sounds like that might also be nerve damage. There is just so damn much destruction from these poisons and they have no idea how to fix it all. I did have that feeling like ants crawling on my legs, and that went away. I have always wondered if maybe the feet are the most difficult to return to normal because they are the furthest from the brain. I had numb, tingling finger too, that spasm wildly out of control, and while they are not quite normal use-wise, those side effects went away. I know I have heard from others on this side who had weird sensations that went away. Some would “relapse” and come back, but it seems each time it is less and less

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 14, 2019 at 4:22 am Reply

      I think that all those “little discomforts” are,for people like me,not important to mention.I,too,have a weird change in how I feel warmt,and cold.Part of it will,probably,be caused by another “med” I still use (Flecainide Acetaat);it’s a known reaction,and not only are my hands and feel extremely sensitive to cold,but when they’re cold,the feeling sensation is different,compared to pre-flox time;it kind of hurts,in a way I never felt a pain sensation before.Nerve damage,for sure! I only feel comfortable when my room temperature is within a small area;one degree higher or lower and it has me running to the thermostat.

      Another,of those “minor” things: I lost my ability to estimate measurements,quantities and contents remarkably well,suprising others,but that abilities is almost gone! Last year,I noticed that a new Fig tree in my backyard had gigantic leaves but,when I got closer to the plant they were still big,but not like they looked from a few meters distance.This made me wandering what was going on,and I walked up and down to that plant,and to my suprise it gave the same result,every time.Now, 1 1/2 year later,I’m probably used to this effect because last summer I hardly noticed it,although it’s still there.Problem,here: is it my eyes,my brain or both,that cause these weird symptoms? Or both?

      • Larry December 15, 2019 at 12:34 am Reply

        Very strange symptoms for sure. In the early months of my poisoning I had a lot of mental symptoms I guess you could say. Everyone said I looked like a walking zombie or stoned. My eye circles were blacker than I’ve ever seen before. I was like awe snap y’all im really jacked up. So I had to get a picture of my eyes because I couldn’t believe what was happening to me. I’d wake up with the feeling something was grabbing my throat up through my forehead. In the early morning hours, with just enough sunlight coming in the room, I’d see sparkling gold on my arms. Kinda like the way the vampires shimmered in the movie twilight. Also, when I’d lay down to go to sleep my arms and legs would disappear so to speak. It’s like someone removed them. I wasn’t aware of them.

        I also had an increase in eye floaters and a major uptick in my tinnitus. The tinnitus got so loud I couldn’t hear anything. Yet I passed my hearing exam with flying colors. So whatever the source of my original MILD tinnitus levaquin Severely enhanced it. It’s calmed back down to where it’s tolerable. Fortunately I’ve lived with tinnitus for a long time so I can handle it.

        I’d also started with terrible penis tip burning. That could be related to my pelvic floor disfunction but I guess I just dont know at this point. Maybe it’s the Levaquin. Never had it with pelvic floor dysfunction before. I am being treated by a physical therapist for all that mess. It comes and goes.

        I guess I have nerve damage? I just really don’t know. My neurologist was like. I dunno. I told him I appreciated his honesty lol

        The irony behind all this? I quit drinking and smoking back in 2012 and was always careful of what I took. Yet here I am living this surreal existence. I know you all can relate. All these little oddities drive me nuts. The constant tingling, the Sandpaper skin irritation feeling, the loss of proper temperature sensation. The face burning really Pisses me off. My face pretty much burns constantly. Much more mild now but still there. Of course all of this has taken a toll. I was zoned out while driving one day and didn’t see my friend stopped in front of me so there I was flying into a ditch and field at 70mph to avoid killing us both. I’m pretty much at the point of wanting to be ran over by a fast moving vehicle. I don’t know who I am anymore.

        Actually it’s been an odd year all around. My boss was just diagnosed with a brain tumor and my other coworker is loosing feeling in her arms for some unknown reason. #2019 the year from hell.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 16, 2019 at 3:17 am

          Hy Larry,most of those symptoms are,99% sure,nerve damage.the double vision could be nerve,tendon,the eye itself (Retina) or even brain damage.Since being floxed,my brain mixes up words.Soon after learning how to read (which starts with reading characters and “glueing” them together) you start to read/recognize words.Well since Cipro,very often,another word comes up,and I have to read that part again for the right word,instead of the “lookalike”that came up the first time.

          The burning skin,an experience many floxies seem to share,might be a combination of a FQ damaged skin (collagen),nerve damage,and a wrong brain interpretation of the brain.FQ’s cause damage on so many levels that,indeed,there are endless possibilities in the symptoms it might cause.Some symptoms are more easy to understand:sometimes I suddenly get severe pain in a fingertip,or in a toe (like someone putting a clamp on it);this is nerve damage,for sure.Seems to have a preferation for the places at the outer limits of your body,like your “penis problem” might be.

          Well,some of these symptoms may get less severe,some may even completely vanish,and we may get used to all the other,less aggravating symptoms,in the way you get used to the damn eye floaters which are now a constant,unwanted companion.

        • Lukasz December 16, 2019 at 10:20 am

          Looks like I’m not the only one who has problems with reading post-Cipro. I often have to reread what I just read because it doesn’t stick with my brain the first time around. Likely a form of brain damage. God, I despise these drugs!

        • Larry December 16, 2019 at 12:20 pm

          Henke, mentally I feel back to my old self. I also feel physically strong and normal. I’d be 99% normal if all these skin sensations went away. Why 99%? Well Levaquin increased my already numerous eye floaters and I know they won’t go away. So I’m hoping for 99%!

          I did learn that there are other victims of nerve damage from other drugs like Macrobid and my coworkers husband list vision in is left eye from some sort of heart med. FQs certainly aren’t the only devil drugs out there.

          I’m ready to put all this in the past as best as I can. I’ll always warn others about these drugs and help others, but yeah I’m ready to have my life back.

    • Madge Hirsch December 15, 2019 at 1:01 pm Reply

      I have a sensation from time to time that someone has poured cold water over part of my scalp. I think this is some sort of neuropathy. Also sensations of heat or like sunburn on parts of my body. Luckily I don’t get this a lot. Sometimes I can go weeks without it.

      • Larry December 15, 2019 at 3:20 pm Reply

        Madge, I didn’t have that but my scalp burned terribly for months. I literally let my hair grow out because I couldn’t even touch it. It even got my eyebrows too. I’m like my eyebrows???? Come on 😂

  44. Andrea December 14, 2019 at 3:30 pm Reply

    Hey everyone. First I wanted to let you all know I read through the stories on the side bar and while it was devastating to read it gave me some hope that some of you have found recovery. My heart goes out to each and every one of you who has been affected by this poison.

    With that being said when I posted a few days ago I was in full hysteria mode. I have tried to calm myself down and one silver lining was as I was going to bed and glanced down at the floor I saw I had at one point dropped a half of Cipro that must have been on my night stand. So that means I have 250 less of that poison in me. I am guesstimating now that I had ingested approximately 6.5 tablets over a 4 week period. I continue to pray.

    So my question to you all is what supplements are you taking and did you have to wait for a few weeks after you ingested your flox- cipro or did you get on it right away? I started the magnesium straight away. I went to the health food store and got magnesium salts and something called nature calm it’s a magnesium drink. I also take Ester C. For the past few years I have been taking a daily multiple vitamin, a little magnesium here and there, zinc, 1000ui of Vitamin D3 in the winter months, a probiotic, and when I am good about it, an eye vitamin. Since I found out about toxicity of Cipro I kind went mildly mental. I was not sure if I should continue the other vitamins, stop everything or what. If there a link around for what are the good supplements to take? I did find a few sites but seems everyone is taking slightly different things.

    For those of you who suffer the nerve damage from burning skin or painful skin sensations have you explored nasal b12? Sublingual does not work well. For years I have used a product that is a nasal b12 spray. I use it very little as it is strong. I had my b12 tested after using it and my b12 was off the charts so it goes right into the system.

    My husband who generally prays more quietly actually said let’s pray. And while I am not the most religious person out there I also prayed for all of you that your days improve and that your quality of life returns if not to normal, to something manageable. I have become a firm believer that I will not ingest another RX unless my life depends on it. Which brings me to another question. If you all come down with an infection that does not improve, or if you experience severe pain what antibiotic or pain reliever would you consider? I have thrown away all of my advil in the garbage.

    • L December 14, 2019 at 4:12 pm Reply

      The magnesium is the best. Also D. So you’re doing the right things! I would add a probiotic…a good one with multiple strains and billions of cfu. The devastation to the gut doesn’t stay I the gut. Damaged gut microbiome are now linked to pretty much every disease you can think of…even altzheimer’s! So not only will a good probiotic help the gut directly, but your entire body.

    • Larry December 15, 2019 at 12:43 am Reply

      Andrea, if I remember correctly you didn’t NOT have a bad reaction to a fluoroquinolone? My reaction happened on my last dose on day 5. 7 hours later it made my body blow up like a very hot. I mean very hot nuclear bomb went off and I burned up constantly for like 4 months.

      If it makes you feel better my mom has taken Cipro for years without issues. My father also took Cipro 2 years ago without issue. My aunt and other people I know have taken Cipro without issues. They are all fine and nothing happened to them. Needless to say none of them will be taking Cipro or any Fluoroquinolone again 😂

      • L December 15, 2019 at 9:52 am Reply

        That’s good that they want since it is cumulative. I was not aware until I got a read out from my pharmacy that I had been given both cipro and Levaquin in the past with no (apparent) issues. Third time—a bomb went off. I suspect even those who don’t appear to react still have some kind of damage…just not at the noticeable level yet.

    • Sheila December 17, 2019 at 12:36 pm Reply

      Hi, I took cipro for over 3 years and then my dr. switched me to Macrobid instead due to the black box warnings on cipro – yaya one evil to another it seems. That said you have only taken 6.5 pills I probably took a minimum of 65 or more over that 3 years span – but if I have an issue I will take a tried and true antibiotic like penicillin I refuse to be sicker than I am from being floxed – I will however research the drug before using it but I do take things. I try to avoid meds 99% of the time but when needed I will take them. I do not take any NSAIDS, I don’t take any advil,ibuprohen type drugs, and I use my intuition a lot. For instance I had yeast overgrowth in my throat after a run of prednisone and zpaks for a serious serious sinus infection that just wouldn’t go away the drug prescribed was a pill and then a liquid I took the pill but the day I reached for the liquid to finish the treatment I picked up the bottle and it felt like barbed wire in my hand, I told myself I needed to drink that to cure the last little bit of yeast but my gut kept saying this is poison don’t drink it, so I threw it away – the name was fluconazole I just couldn’t bring myself to take it – I did the same thing with Boniva I took two which would be two months of treatment but the 3rd month I reached for the box and it was like electric shock and I held the box and my gut said this is poison throw it away and I did. Now we are learning about the horrible bone fractures from taking Boniva and it is no longer advised to use, so my theory is use your own intuition if it feels ok then ok if it feels terrible don’t. I have to admit that cipro for me was a miracle drug I loved it, it made me feel great it took care of my UTI and just made me feel great, but when I reached my threshold level of enough is enough – wow it has become my worst nightmare not sure why my intuition didn’t tell me to throw it away but it didn’t. So I take some responsibility in not saying no. That said I am a work in progress, so many aches and pains and like I said before I feel like my whole body weighs 2,000+ pounds movement is slow and sluggish not to mention sloppy.

      • Andrea December 17, 2019 at 10:11 pm Reply

        Sheila. Holy cow that’s a ton of Cipro! My father who is now passed, was on Cipro for years for prostate and UTI issues. I just remember hearing him talk Cipro for at least a decade of his life. I think that’s about when his prostate issues came up and he said Cipro was the only drug that would clear up his infections. His doctor gave it to him all the time. And this is why I do not trust doctors. The warnings have been on Cipro for years is what I am now learning. I just don’t trust the pharmacutical companies at all. My Dad was on a drug called Actos for diabetes but when it got recalled he switched to metformin. Actos causes bladder cancer. I know as we age health issues arise where drugs might be needed. I just want to try and keep myself healthy so I don’t have to get on anything long term. The funny thing is, I have always bee cautious. Any time I got an RX from a doctor I was reluctant to take it and always researched it and as the bad patient I am, half the time I never finished it.

      • Andrea December 18, 2019 at 9:01 am Reply

        I wanted to ask, for those of you who still get UTIs because I think mine is back what can you do to treat it naturally? I know you mentioned the D mannose I am going to run up to the health food store.

        • L December 18, 2019 at 10:13 am

          D Mannose does not treat (by itself) it helps prevent. What it does is keep the little buggers from sticking. I am have mentioned this several times on here that there is a natural protocol that you can likely get from a naturopath (particularly a female one). I cannot remember all the ingredients or the amounts because it changes daily. EG there are high dosages of vitamin A but they decrease every day and I cannot recall by how much or what the amounts are. There is also vitamin C in high amounts, d mannose (every 4 hours as I recall) and something called urinary system support from herb pharm. Please try to find an ND who is familiar with this protocol. It can take weeks to work, but it does.

        • Sheila December 18, 2019 at 11:44 am

          D-Mannose is a preventative you have to take it regularly to prevent the infection, but once you get the infection you really do need something to knock it totally out cause it can fester if not completely treated it can create a super bug UTI that will require major antibiotics. It can also cause the kidneys to fail and can cause a serious kidney infection. Research antibiotics and find one that has been tried and true like penicillin find one that is decades old with no black box warnings and see if your doctor thinks it would treat your UTI the longer you wait to treat it the harder it will be to get rid of. When treated get on that D-Mannose and don’t miss a day or you can get a UTI almost instantly if prone to them.

        • Nicole December 18, 2019 at 1:06 pm

          For all you girls that are talking about D-Mannose as a preventative you should know it only works for the E. coli strain. Since using it I don’t test positive for E.coli but other bacteria strains. It seems you can never win. Taking a probiotic just for the urinary system for a try now.
          L if you read this please tell me where you buy, I think you said NAC eye drops and maybe you mentioned one other.
          Thanks, Nicole

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 18, 2019 at 1:33 pm

          Taking higher than the “normal”vitamine C dose (100 mg/day,or more) might work as well;what you don’t need is excreted via the bladder,and has the ability to work as an antibacterial ,there.Linus Pauling (2 x Nobel price winner) used 18 grams/day! He died at the age of 93 (!),and claimed that this did not dis-prove,but,in fact prove his theory of the value of high vitamine doses,and in particular of high doses of vit.C.How can anyone disagree with that,to a man at his high age!

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 18, 2019 at 1:34 pm

          Sorry;typo.Must be 1000mg or more/day.

        • Sheila December 18, 2019 at 4:08 pm

          I haven’t had a uti in over 3-4 years since starting D-Mannose and the only reason I got a UTI was due to a hot tub visit at the beach. I guess I fought that one UTI for all those years but now I have been clear for all those years.

        • Andrea December 18, 2019 at 2:28 pm

          Thanks everyone. Henk I agree to make it to 93 wow! I just purchased some high quality C so I will take it. I have been drinking water non stop in hopes of a flush. Not super symptomatic yet but I can tell it is coming on and I have those urine test sticks it’s showing something.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 19, 2019 at 5:46 am

          “those urine test sticks it’s showing something”.

          Good quality test-strips are very sensitive.First of all: wash your genitals very carefully (never use soap in this area!), and let the first bit of urine flow away;you need the middle part of the urine flow.Test at once;older urine enhanches the chanse of false positives or negatives.

          Good quality strips are a must! Bad quality gives unreliable outcomes.Mine are produced by Acon Laboratories Inc. (sold under the name Blaas (=bladder) Check,and in a test (with 3 other trademarks) tested as being the number on,and equal in quality as those,used by most doctors.The test on Nitriet (bacterial activity),Leukocites and blood (-particles) in the urine.In the manual are directions on how to act according to the test results.

        • Larry December 18, 2019 at 11:33 pm

          Andrea, look into biofilm busters, curcumin, probiotics, and oregano oil for natural remedies.

          If you need an antibiotic look into Fosfomycin. It’s supposed to have limited toxicity.

  45. Michael December 15, 2019 at 1:24 am Reply

    I have had extremely good results on my neuropathy with Bioptron light therapy. Jan 1 will mark 24 weeks from when I took my last Cipro tab and at present I have only minimal neuropathy symptoms while taking just gabapentin 300m three times per day and clonidine 25micrograms three times per day. I was able to come off the nortriptyline. I keep praying every day. Hope everybody is doing OK. I am also taking P-5-P, methyclobalamin and metafolin.

  46. John December 15, 2019 at 1:29 pm Reply

    I was wondering what u all think about fasting in helping restore cels for the floxed? Ive been reading and watching a lot of people saying how it can help the body heal on a cellular level. Personally, I have been trying it, fasting 48 hrs about once a month since June. Ive also mixed in some intermediate fasting. Ive lost weight and feel ok, but im not really doing it for weight loss, im doing it mainly to help my body heal. The weight loss is just a positive side effect. I cant really say if its helping or not, has anybody else tried it? Thanks.

    • L December 15, 2019 at 3:52 pm Reply

      I did a three day water only fast, to see if it would help with a particular issue I am dealing with. It didn’t—but I have done a lot of research and it is supposed reset your immune system. While I wouldn’t do three days again, I would encourage people to look into it. Many health benefits. And breaking the fast is perhaps the most important part. It needs to be done very slowly. So, yeah, if you are feeling up to it, I think it offers a lot of benefits.

  47. Henk Noordhuizen December 16, 2019 at 3:39 am Reply

    Today,Mercola has a good article about new insights in the importance,and the myth about vit.C.Usefull info for Floexies,e.g. vitamin C is not only a vitamin,but also works as an antihistamin.This might be usefull for those with “autoimmune” reactions.


  48. Daniel L December 16, 2019 at 11:11 am Reply

    A funny book review of ‘Every Therapy Book Ever Written’


  49. Larry December 19, 2019 at 11:29 am Reply

    Does anyone have information about Acetyl l carnatine and FQ induced nerve damage? Studies show it can make some types of chemo nerve damage worse. Not sure about FQ. I’ve been on it for 3 weeks now and haven’t noticed a change in symptoms.

    • L December 19, 2019 at 11:35 am Reply

      It would take way more than 3 weeks I imagine to see any difference. I have not heard anything bad about it. In fact, my integrative MD just put me back on…

      • Larry December 19, 2019 at 11:59 am Reply

        Thanks L!

  50. Andrea December 20, 2019 at 6:01 am Reply

    Hey guys, can some of you explain to me the dangers of coloscopy please. Thank you

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 20, 2019 at 6:18 am Reply
    • L December 20, 2019 at 10:16 am Reply

      There is a slight risk of perforation of the colon. It is also possible to react to the sedative (athough I have not had an issue with that.) To me, the bigger problem, especially for us, who have had their guts damaged by the cipro, is the awful chemical cocktail you are required to take the day before. It again, destroys good microbiome. You might want to try adding fermented foods afterwards to start building it back up again.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.