Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

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25,649 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. David. Pollard May 1, 2020 at 9:00 am Reply

    Henk. I’m thinking of you and your journey with these new health issues. You have been such a wonderful support to those of us who were floxed. Always remember how much you helped others. You’re a strong man.

  2. Andrea May 1, 2020 at 1:19 pm Reply

    Henk, I hope this doesn’t upset you, but I was thinking a lot about you lately, so today, I’ve had a phone call with my father (a surgeon) now retired. I know, you, and many of us, me included, don’t trust doctors anymore, but, since we’re talking about cancer now, I thought that the more infos someone can get, the better.
    Like I wrote, my father has been a surgeon for many many years, I can gurantee you that he’s an honest man. Never took a cent from a patient, and he was very passionate in his job. He’s an old school, no nonsense, no sugar coating, but fair, caring and loyal type of guy.
    So today, I’ve explained to him your case (of course without giving him too many information about you), I’ve just told him you’re an older friend of mine, who found out to have esophagus cancer with lots of metastasis. I’ve also told him that right now you’re not able to swallow food. And I asked his opinion, what he would’ve done.
    He told me that, the first thing he would have done, is to talk very honeslty to the patient and explaining to him the options he’s left with (according to him of course), then, as your doctor already told you, try to “burn” part of the tumor, so that you can at least swallow something, seem very reasonable. He told me this is particular important, before even thinking about the chemo. The reason is that, by starting to eat again, you should, at least in theory, feel a little better. Of course this procedure (the burning of the tumor), isn’t 100% side effects free. At least it’s not guaranteed that there can’t be complications, but it still should be safe and defenetly worth a try, according to him.
    Then, if you hopefully can eat again (he said that, in esophagus cancer patient, even if the surgeon “opeens up” the obstructed part, sometimes the patient can’t still eat, because of all the “mess” the tumor has created), and you start to feel a little better, he would suggest to try a single round of chemo, a week for example, and see if you’re responding to it. This is crucial to understand if it’s the case to keep doing it or to stop there.
    Anyway he reccomended that the surgical treatment (the burning) must be performed by a good reliable surgeon (see avoiding side effects), and whoever tells you to just do the chemo, without thinking it twice, without deeply understanding your case, isn’t a relaible doctor
    Please keep in mind, that I did all this, just to try to help you. I’m not giving you any advice, nor I’m trying to judge your past or future decisions. Hope you don’t mind and understand I’m very sad for your situation and I did this in amity,
    Stay strong,


    • Henk Noordhuizen May 2, 2020 at 11:53 pm Reply

      Thanks for the info,Andrea.The chemo is an absolute no-no for me (remember;Cipro,in fact is a chemo,and there’s an advice to re-market it as a chemo,I wrote about,a while ago).

      My chemo will be the Dandelion root tea;safe,effective and dirt cheap.

      Well,I hope that it will come so far as for me to be able to use The tea,fresh vegetable juice and maybe other healthy stuff.At the moment I’m fighting an enormous pain in my upper body;even the slightest pressure on my skin hurts,and friday night the doc from the general practice centre (where doc’s give help during the weekend and during the nights) had to give me a shot of morfine,half a cap (didn’t want a full one).

      Next day I got Fentanyl bandages,12 mcg.Were delivered a bit late;the shot started to stop working,but just in time the first bandage seemed to start working fine (after ca. 12 hours).The rest of the day I felt realy fine;no pain and quite a bit of energy.In the evening there was a minor bit of pain coming back,but first part of the night I slept quite well.During the second part,the pain started to return,and I woke up earlier than I hoped for,because of this pain.

      This weird pain started in 2004,after Amoxicillin and Metronidazole;I suddenly noticed that,putting a book on my belly,to read,this started to really heart after a few minutes.Also started to have problems while sleeping.I always sleep on my right side,but since then,I had to move,and turn a bit every once and a while because it started hurting.These symptoms got a lot worse after the Cipro,in 2016,and since a few weeks the pain went from terrible to insane.I even though,for a little while,that te tiny bit of CS was causing the increase in pain,but there’s no link because this process of increasing pain started before the first drop of CS I tried to swallow.

      I’m pretty shure the problem is caused by the nerve damage fro the 4 rotten Cipro pills I took,but I don’t really understand why,now,things really go crazy.When this pain proves to be uncontrolable,it might thrive me into a position where ending my live will be a blessing,long before the cancer brings me to that point.I feel really desperate;there are stronger Fentanyl bandages,and the shots,but when I need stronger,and stronger,just after a little while of releaf,my time is limited.

      • Sheila May 3, 2020 at 8:02 am Reply

        Henk, I have noticed the same thing – holding a book or propping anything against my sides or stomach area cause me pain shortly thereafter. I thought it was just me and having a sensitive “muffin top” or fibromyalgia undiagnosed. Just the other day I bent over and got a cramp in my side which happens a lot too after the cipro – and after standing up I felt the pain for a long time and the next day I actually had a tissue knot where the cramp had been, it just feels like I’m falling apart. I have nodules here and there and then they are gone, then they appear somewhere else, pain from holding a catalog against my stomach; little blister type bumps that appear out of nowhere on my arms and hands tiny little things that leave a hole when they burst. It looks like I have had a fight with a rose bush and the bush won, all the time. I loved cipro while I was taking it just loved it but after stopping it – that’s when my body when all to hell.
        I am so sorry you feel so bad – did you look up that F3 algae I sent? It might help you just feel better during this horrible situation. ❤
        I think of you daily and wish you the upmost best during this next journey wherever it takes you.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2020 at 10:30 am

          Sheila,I don’t have the money for things like the F3 algea,and I don’t have the energy to spend much time on the web for research.But thank you,anyway.

          Today I realized that the main part of the pains (the increase) might be a too little intake of water,so,I started to flush my feeding tube more frequently.Also noticed that,when going outside,friends and acquaintances want to talk with me,and don’t realize that I’m very limited in energy.And one (not very loved) neighbour,when I talked to him about the alternatives I want to try,said:”those are all quacks;don’t believe them”.Well,yes,when a very sich neighbour talks about the (only!) alternatives he has,just kick him in the back by saying those kind of thins,trying to destroy the last bit of hope he has.Idiot!

        • Sheila May 3, 2020 at 10:41 am

          People can be very critical of what others decide to do for themselves. Sorry you have that issue. I understand about the cost it is pricey but gosh it did wonders for making the cancer issues bearable.
          Ignore that silly neighbor do what you gotta do for yourself and what makes you feel good and healthy and just walk away shaking your head with the others.
          I am waiting anxiously for news about the partial tumor removal. All good thoughts your way!!!

        • L May 3, 2020 at 11:56 am

          People like your neighbor are just ignorant and uninformed. Ignore him. (But what a jerk…not the real word I want to use here.)

          I just watched 9 nights of The Truth About Vaccines. It was not anti or pro. There were in fact doctors interviewed who did give SOME vaccines. But there was just voluminous evidence of harm…buried studies…whistleblowers…showing how toxic some of the adjuvants are and showing how so many cancers and auto-immune diseases have increased exponentially along with the increase in vaccines…and the fact that the companies can not be liable…certainly does not encourage safety. Well all I did was post a link to one episode on FB and I got told to f*ck off, and got called names…all by people who obviously did not even bother to watch. (The segment was an hour and these replies came within minutes.)They are SO brainwashed by the constant drumbeat of “vaccines are safe” from the industry, they are not even willing to give in to the possibility that they are not. Cognitive Dissonance. They have gotten vaccines before so they are going to believe they work and are safe.

          I hope you can avoid that neighbor in the future. Personally, I had not even heard of dandelion tea before, but just from what I read I think it sounds very promising. It truly is remarkable that right now the world’s “top” researchers and racing to find treatments and vaccines for covid19 ($$$$$$$$) when ozone would do the trick.

          I found a link I had saved (national institutes of health) that discusses natural cancer treatments that are being looked at. For some reason when I click on the link a number of items come up. I just clicked on the top one, and that was the right one. Anyhow, this could be useful to you. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4391654/

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2020 at 11:38 pm

          Thanks for that link,L.,very interesting information.Dandelion research has taken a giant leap since the Windsor university in Canada started the Dandelion project.Lots of research can be fouun when searching NCIB on Dandelion,and almost all researchers are enthousiastic.

          Home care just connected my feeding tube machine;she is a disbeliever of natural and thinks cancer can only be treated with chemo and burning.So few people realize that most of our “modern” medicines are in fact very old natural remedies,which the Farmafia has synthisized to make them patentable and extremely profitable.And dangerous,because the synthisized molecules can not be broken down by the free radicals (ROS),which the body produces to neutralize pathogens and poisons.Than,the ROS,not able to bind to the threat,attacks it’s own cells,damaging mitochondria,nuclear and mit.DNA,and according to some researchers,even RNA.

          Voila;that’s the starting point of cancer,and a lot of other diseases,and explains why cancer,untill 150-200 years ago,extremely rare,increased in an explosive way,following the trend of the increased use of farmaceuticals,and the increase of chemicals in our food and envirament.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2020 at 11:53 pm

          A publication on NCIB of Dandelion research (and compared to a chemo,which proves NOT to be selective,while Dandelion and other natural remidies do):


        • L May 4, 2020 at 8:37 am

          wow. That looks really good, Henk. And as for chemo, it may kill the cancer where it is treated (or appear to) but usually it just moves somewhere else in the body. Like most western medicine and their pharmaceuticals…it masks the disease rather than treating it.

          And yes a huge increase in cancers and auto immune disease…especially with the proliferation of vaccines and their toxic adjuvants. I ran into my old ND a couple days ago and told him I had been watching the series “The Truth About Vaccines,” and how alarming some of the statistics were. He said be believed that some may actually purposely put things in that cause illness…what a great way to boost business! (or in the case of Bill Gates—to decrease the population, something he has talked about often.)

        • L May 3, 2020 at 11:39 am

          I had something similar but it was intense pressure, which produces an odd kind of pain. Not a sharp pain and not quite an ache but just unbearable pressure. I could not wear a seat belt for over a year because of the pressure across my chest. (Or I would wear it, but just hold it away from my body with my hand.)

      • Andrea May 3, 2020 at 8:25 am Reply

        So sorry to read all this Henk. I hope you’ll get better

      • Andrea May 3, 2020 at 12:52 pm Reply

        Henk, sometimes people can be very nasty but expecially stupid. But I understand why. They probably never have to deal with things like chronic pain or fatigue, let alone cancer, like in your case, so they think you could just answer their stupid questions or having a nice conversation with them, like nothing ever happened to you. That other jerk of a neighbourhood of yours, who said those things about the dendelion tea, well, just keep him away from you, just a suggestion of course., but I wouldn’t talk to him again. People like him are terrible in a situation like this. I don’t know if you’re wrong or right by avoiding chemo, or by taking the dendelion tea, but it’s you who has cancer, and it’s your damn right to do whatever the hell you want, without the need of his stupid 2 cents. I understand he probably didn’t do that to make you feel worse, but still, how rude and unsensitive!

  3. Don M May 1, 2020 at 3:13 pm Reply

    Andrea…… I sit on the side lines and read the posts by you all. I sit quietly because I really do not know what to say. Andria and all thank you for your comments and concerns for Henk. Don

    • Andrea May 1, 2020 at 5:57 pm Reply

      Thanks Don

  4. Don M May 1, 2020 at 3:36 pm Reply
    • lymedefeaterpassionate May 23, 2020 at 10:02 am Reply

      Look into the work of the ISEAI on mast cell activation syndrome. Cipro may have awakened a latent Lyme disease. The tick brings mold into the body. Between the tick and the mold in bodies with certain genotypes the mold cannot be detoxed naturally. Inflammation begets inflammation…cytokines are released to put out fires in the body. Dr. Mary Ackerley explains this well in her article “Brain on Fire” …..Google. Dr. Jill Carnahan on the same subject…Mast Cells.

  5. Julia May 3, 2020 at 10:41 am Reply

    Hello people! I have unfortunately been floxed recently. I took Cipro for 25 days with no issues and after the last pill everything went down. I am so angry that this med is given to people! So far I have developed some kind of neuropathy (At this point bearable) but also all my tendons hurt. Even in my back. I think I have tendinitis in my hip. Has anybody recovered from such a bad case of painful tendons? If so, how long did it take you and what do you recommend that I do? I also have extreme anxiety and severe insomnia, my mind is racing and I cannot relax because of the pain in my tendons, every position I take is uncomfortable before I fall asleep. When I finally feel like sleeping, I have an impression I will stop breathing. Last night was sleepless. I fear today’s. Any tips appreciated! I hope I will be one of you in the future but now it’s all a mix of anxiety, pain and fear.

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2020 at 11:39 am Reply

      Sorry for my very short respons.Best you can do for now: use a good magnesium supplement like magnesium bisglycijate or magnesium L-Threonate.Hope,it works.Good luck.

    • Virginia May 3, 2020 at 5:08 pm Reply

      Hi Julia, sorry to hear about your tendon pain, anxiety and insomnia. I had 3 partial tendon ruptures from just 4(!) days of Cipro, 2 of which have fully healed after some months. The other one is mostly healed after 5 years, but I still have to wear a brace at night to hold it steady. Physical therapy helped a lot, as did braces to hold the tendon in place. I took lots of Magnesium. Mg Threonate especially helps with sleep also (take it close to bedtime). You can take different kinds of Magnesium (any kind except oxide) in divided doses throughout the day, (I take 500-600 mg a day) and spray it on your hurt tendons in lotion form, and bathe in it using 2 cups of Epsom salts (Mg. sulfate) per warm bath. Whenever I take the E.S. bath close to bedtime, it helps me sleep deeper. I haven’t yet taken it, but have heard that CBD oil is good for pain and anxiety and sleep. I haven’t tried Melatonin, but a lot of people recommend it for sleep. I take L-Theanine for anxiety; it’s found in supplement form and in green tea. Hang in there: it can get better.

  6. Max Klinestiver (@tigerwoodstock) May 3, 2020 at 12:54 pm Reply

    I was floxed recently, In all, I took three pills when I stopped. My decision to stop involved pain to my left knee and both feet inflamed. Plus the pill gave me terrible heartburn. For two weeks afterward, everything slowly seemed to go away until the second week I took myself off the medication. Now the back of my shoulders, neck, back, and calves hurt, I understand that vitamin D degrades this medication. Does Calcium work as a detox? I suffer from GERD and so I can not use magnesium. I also hear a ringing sound from my left ear. I do not know what my next options are. I will be calling my doctor this Monday to update him of my condition.

    • Virginia May 3, 2020 at 5:13 pm Reply

      Hi Max, very glad you stopped at just 3 pills! I got 3 partly torn tendons from 9 pills; I should’ve stopped earlier. I think you will likely heal in time since you took just 3 pills. I don’t know about Calcium as detox, but Magnesium does. I’ve never heard about Mg. causing GERD; I would think it’s the opposite since Mg. is in some antacids that I sometimes take…Maybe different people get different effects from it. Are you sure it’s not something else causing your GERD? If you’re sure it’s the oral Mg causing problems, you can take Mg in transdermal form via spray/lotion (I use the Ancient Minerals Mg spray) and Epsom salt (Mg. sulfate) baths. Make the bath as warm as you can, and stay in a long time.

    • Virginia May 3, 2020 at 5:17 pm Reply

      Smart to stop after 3 pills! You have a good chance at recovering. Not sure about Calcium as detox, but Magnesium does. If you’re positive Mg is causing your GERD (could it be something else?), try transdermal Mg in the form of spray/lotion or Epsom salt baths (Mg. sulfate). Make the bath as warm as you can and soak the painful parts as long as you can.

    • Don M May 3, 2020 at 5:37 pm Reply

      Max K……. Have you tried liquid magnesium like Angstrom or Remag? Look up the web site of Dr. Carolyn Dean. http://life-transformation-institute.org/resources/handouts_phil/Magnesium_UltimateGuideDrCarolynDean.pdf
      Read what she has to say about the importance of magnesium and pay special attention to the fact that since magnesium is hard to absorbed only from 4% to 20% of magnesium in pills is utilized by the body and the rest is expelled. It is why drying to dose heavily with mag pills causes diarrhea. The liquids Angstrom or Remag don’t do this. Magnesium is very important when floxed because Fluoroquinolones are very hard on the person’s magnesium level. Good luck with your doctor. After they cause the problem with the antibiotic they seem to either act totally clueless or try to convince you that your reaction to the antibiotic couldn’t be causing your problems.
      Be careful with how much calcium you are taking.
      Magnesium and vitamin D-3 together are good for a floxie.
      Is your GERD to little or to much stomach acid? Doctors like to treat for to much when the reality is the problem is caused by to little stomach acid to efficiently break down foods.
      I am not a doctor but have many years of experience with many different problems. I’ll soon be 86.

    • Andrea S. May 9, 2020 at 11:42 am Reply

      I took Cipro on and off for a month or two time span. I have been stuck with ringing of the ears for many months that does not want to stop. I take Magnesium daily and in the beginning took a ton of it. I think it might have saved me from further damage. There are many forms of mag that have little to no side effects.

  7. Michael May 4, 2020 at 1:54 am Reply

    Hi guys,

    Hope everybody is doing OK. I’d just like to ask what everybody’s experience or brain fog type symptoms has been. My neuropathy has taken stage all this time because it has been my main symptom, but now as it seems to be easing off or at least reaching a point where I am fairly comfortable despite it, I’m becoming more aware of the cognitive symptoms I may have suffered because of ciprofloxacin.

    I mean:
    – brain fog
    – being a bit dopey compared to before
    – tired a lot

    Actually I do manage to function pretty well despite this, but I know I’m not my former self. Just now I was doing a 1000 piece puzzle with my daughter and found myself having to quit after about 15 mins. It just started tiring me out and getting uncomfortable for me…

    So what’s the low down with that? I know many people got better. What were your time frames? What helped?


    • Sheila May 4, 2020 at 8:24 am Reply

      I noticed that after my 3 years of cipro that I can’t concentrate as well on things I loved, your reference to a jigsaw puzzle hit a nerve – I used to sit for hours on end and work puzzles but not now – I get aggravated and frustrated; I worked in accounting and love doing numbers but my patience for them is low now; we are always doing household projects here my husband is AAA+ personality so he has to be “doing” something all the time, drives me nuts cause I just don’t have the energy I used to, to keep up with him, but I always worked out our projects with graph paper sometimes multiple designs that would keep me busy all day, now I hate the thought of pulling out a sheet of graph paper, the second he or I would think about a project I would get excited and run get the graph paper and so looked forward to designing our newest idea; I am an artist and in one year I think I have painted 4 times and I never ever started something I didn’t finish immediately even if it took days I would be found in my studio working hard, there’s a simple art project on my desk that’s still unfinished a year later – and now I dread the idea of painting anything…….it’s like cipro took everything I loved and shoved it in the trash.
      I search for words now, or I will have a thought and if I don’t say it instantly it’s gone, that is not normal for me but it is after the cipro – I have not had the neuropathy that keeps getting mentioned or at least I don’t think so. I do know that when I read now my hands or arms will “fall asleep” and repositioning helps but that’s all I can say about that.
      I have lost 2/3 of my hair, I assume because cipro is a cancer drug, it’s like I have alopecia but I didn’t have this till after cipro, I have little tiny bumps that come up on my arms that leave holes when they burst it looks like I have fought a rose bush and the bush won – all the time – just when it looks like my arms will clear up it starts all over again, and now those little bumps are in my scalp and with hardly any hair left they are noticeable. I have these weird crusty beige raised “lesions” that my doctor has burned off but they come back and they are everywhere along with little skin tags everywhere I look hideous – at least to me.
      For me – I was someone who worked out at the gym sometimes twice a day, every day of the week and sometimes 3-4 hours at a time, I loved it and was thinking about being a personal trainer for amputees since I am a leg amputee from a broken hip in my early 20’s but I no longer have the energy to do any training any more. The fatigue is absolutely horrible, lifting weights now is work where it used to be fun, if I work out one day I have to recover for 3 days, I used to hold a plank for 15 minutes, yep that long and now I can’t hold one more than 30 seconds, the exhaustion is unbearable. Seeing how little I can do compared to what I used to do is depressing and I feel like I am watching my life pass me by because of this drug.
      Sleep is a concept now – not a thing I get. I am restless all night long, I have nightmares, I can’t get comfortable, my mind races and bounces all over the place. I used to “run my chakras” each night to relax and I got such a restful sleep doing that but after cipro I can’t even concentrate on the chakras anymore to get sleep. I have found that if I take a Tylenol before bed sometimes I will get a better nights sleep but I am never ever rested. I feel like I could sleep all the time, but sleep will not come even if I try.

      And the list goes on but that’s the gist of what drives me nuts about cipro. My whole life got turned upside down, I did notice that as long as I was taking it I was my normal self but when my doctor finally said she was going to stop prescribing it for me I was upset cause it was working for what ailed me and oddly I felt better while taking it – when I stopped it – that’s when my issues began some people here had their issues start while taking it but mine started after I stopped taking it. That may be a fluke of my body sometimes I wonder if I had kept taking it if I might not be feeling this bad. But that first month after stopping was when it all went to hell. I have good days but they are so far and few that it’s not worth mentioning really.
      And now for my birthday my husband brought me a great pyrenees puppy this past Saturday – 7 weeks old, some woman was at work and said he was finding a home or else and my husband said I will take him, brought him home and said happy birthday……. a puppy, what the hell am I to do with a puppy!! I don’t have the energy to take care of myself now I have to run after a puppy and train and house train, crate train, this will either help me or kill me hahahahah, I think he thought that I needed something to do, to get me motivated, I suppose AAA+ people figure you just need something “to do” in order to get past exhaustion – has he not seen me struggling to keep up with HIM and he’s not a puppy. So here we go wish me luck in this new adventure with cipro exhaustion and puppyhood.

      sorry for the long story but once a person starts talking about the side effects of cipro it just has no end.

      • Don M May 4, 2020 at 9:48 am Reply

        Sheila……… I relate to many of the things you said. I worked in a machine and welding shop for the major utility. For health issues (that I was prescribed Cipro for) I had to retire early. After leaving the shop I felt as though some one had tied one arm behind me. So over the past 30+ years I built up an extensive home hobby welding and machine shop and today I could care less about it. Now it appears that my big challenge is liquidating over 30 years of accumulation.
        Fatigue and exhaustion are difficult to overcome.

        • Sheila May 5, 2020 at 8:12 am

          oh I am so sorry to hear that you don’t have the energy to work in your welding, that’s a wonderful line of work. Yes the exhaustion is hideous, I swear if the exhaustion would just lift I could fight through the rest happily but I just want to sleep all day but I can’t cause sleep won’t come but when I sit I feel like all I need to do is close my eyes and I could fall asleep but when I do it doesn’t work, being that tired with eyes droopy and useless it takes away what’s left of any energy. I get nothing done. I have a routine and once that’s done I am wasted for the day, I have to force myself to stay on routine with the little bit I actually do. But at night I get a push that “tomorrow will be different I am going to do this and that……” and it never happens cause I wake up tired.
          I wish I knew why cipro reactions cause exhaustion.

        • L May 5, 2020 at 9:17 am

          I have a pretty good idea, Sheila. Fluoroquinolones destroy mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondria are the little powerhouses that energize all your cells. Way back when I kept having my breathing cut off as soon as I would inhale, I assumed it was some kind of central nervous system damage. But a researcher suggested that it was mitochondrial damage to the heart muscle. (I think it may have been some of both.)

          Anyhow, some things that can help: 1) CoQ10 (if you are over 40 you need to take it in the form of ubiquinol.) This is great for everyone, not just floxies, and probably the number one supplement you should be taking for that and also good for immune system. 2) Alpha Lipoic Acid (get the one that says R before it) 3) magnesium 4) Acetyl L-carnitine 5) PQQ. (There are others but that’s a good start!)

        • sheila May 5, 2020 at 9:32 am

          Thank you again! I do recall having read some of the earlier posts on this and I took notes but don’t know where those are I did get the CoQ10 I opted not to try the PPQ and like others magnesium is hard on me I can’t even take calcium without getting ill, so I am very careful with all my supplements and reading the PPQ it just had some side effects I knew I couldn’t handle. I will try to do the Epsom baths that sounds like an easy way to get the magnesium without getting internally ill. I will look into all these again to make sure I feel the same but thank you for reminding me! This exhaustion is the most depressing part of my side effects.

        • L May 5, 2020 at 2:28 pm

          shoot, too bad about the mag. that is so important. have you tried different forms? you may tolerate one more than the others. i’d avoid citrate and carbonate. as for calcium…that is the only supplement I took before being floxed and now it is one of the few I don’t take! too much calcium is bad. It can cause an irregular heartbeat, among other things, and its pretty easy to get it from diet…greens and nuts sardines…I don’t do regular dairy, but I do eat goats milk cheese and kefir. Anyhow, I wouldn’t worry about not taking calcium supplements. (and for bones, D/K is vitally important.)

      • Barbara Arnold May 5, 2020 at 9:42 am Reply

        Sheila, one of the things that helped me with energy was ozone autohemotherapy. I had two lots of ten sessions over a 2 year period. I felt noticeably better as far as energy was concerned. I also took a ton of ubiquinole down the years and mitoq, but I never felt any different, thats not to say others havn’t been helped with it. Also fasting on the 5.2 diet I noticed I felt more energy. Eating takes up a lot of energy as the body digests the food, so maybe that’s why fasting can work. I still get days where my energy levels are non existent, but I’m not a spring chicken, so maybe I expect to much of myself.
        I have taken Kratom (its a herb) by the way, for pain and for me it was great. Used only when I really needed it. I have just sent for some but a different strain, one that gives you energy, so I’ll let you know how and if it works for me.
        Lack of energy is a killer, you feel so frustrated because you want to do stuff and you just can’t. I to am an artist and during this lockdown, I’ve managed to paint a couple of pictures. I did get a few days where I felt no energy at all, so I fasted and it worked as far as getting some energy back.
        Hope this helps. xx

      • Madge Hirsch May 5, 2020 at 2:40 pm Reply

        Hi Sheila- I found your post very interesting as it is the first time I have seen anybody else mention similar skin problems . I have the lumps on the scalp from time to time, loads of skin tags in my armpits and now starting on the inner upper arms. I also get a lot of small hard spots on my inner thighs and on cartilage – behind my ears ,on the tragus and sometimes on the ear itself. These are worst when other floxing symptoms appear so I havd associated them with floxing.

        • Sheila May 5, 2020 at 4:46 pm

          HI Madge!
          yeah I noticed I was getting them right after stopping cipro – I have the little bitty tags all around my neck I thought at first it was just sagging skin and my necklaces pinching it up into tags but then I saw them in my armpits, between my breast, under them etc. I mean it’s like they are going to eat me alive and then add those crusty weird raised lesions, and arm breakouts and I just feel hideous, I was always taking such care with my appearance to stay healthy and vibrant but this just depresses me every time I look in the mirror. Cipro really really flipped my world upside down.

  8. Don M May 4, 2020 at 5:28 am Reply

    Michael………….. You have described my problems exactly. Dopey, spacey, fatigue, aches everywhere. Fatigue….. I am never rested. Night’s are filled with sleeping fitfully and I get up as unrested as when I went to bed. Always feel sleep deprived and it is a different feeling than being tired. Magnesium seems to help with relaxation. Dr. Carolyn Dean says that pills only provide from 4% to 20% of their stated magnesium because they are so poorly absorbed. The rest is expelled from the body unused and in many cases cause the diarrhea problem. Use the liquid forms (Angstrom or Remag) because they are said to not pass through the digestive system and cause the diarrhea problem. Magnesium Threonate (expensive) is said to be the only magnesium that is able to pass the blood brain barrier. It seems to help a bit with sleeping. Use topical magnesium oil on the places where you have pain from muscle spasms. According to Dr. Carolyn Dean just about everyone who is not supplementing is low on magnesium. I wish I had a better answer for the problems. Life would be much more comfortable.
    Dr. Carolyn Dean…….. https://drcarolyndean.com/

  9. Don M May 4, 2020 at 5:46 am Reply

    I think that every floxie (actually everyone) should read this. https://drcarolyndean.com/2012/10/when-magnesium-makes-me-worse/

    • L May 4, 2020 at 8:52 am Reply

      There are many good forms of mag out there, not just the one she sells. I found that switching around helps with different issues. EG Mag taurate is good for the heart (and other things like your bones); mag threonate is especially good for your brain. Glycinate is supposed to be good for leaky gut. Orotate is another good form. So what I do is each time I re-order I get a different form

      As an aside I tried Dean’s mag and had to force myself to finish the bottle. The taste was too disgusting for me.

      • Andrea May 4, 2020 at 2:45 pm Reply

        I’d like to add that mag Malate is said to be the best for muscle pain and cramps

    • Michael May 4, 2020 at 3:30 pm Reply

      Yes, I do wonder whether some of the symptoms people say they get when they take magnesium or iron and get a flare up is due to these minerals displacing cipro from inside the cells where it is bound up… so it may be healing but at the same time causing a floxing flare up.

  10. Don M May 4, 2020 at 9:30 am Reply

    L….. “As an aside I tried Dean’s mag and had to force myself to finish the bottle. The taste was too disgusting for me”. Yes you are right. It keeps me from taking enough of it. I also keep the various forms available. Dean’s magnesium is just magnesium chloride with her process to make the molecules smaller. And a whole lot more expensive. One can get magnesium chloride into their system through topical use of magnesium oil.

  11. Michael May 4, 2020 at 3:31 pm Reply

    I’m taking this pronordic liposomal magnesium

    “Magnesium (as Magnesium bisglycinate) 31.25mg; Taurine 25mg; Zinc (as Zinc bisglycinate) 0.8mg; Selenium (as L-selenomethionin) 4.5mcg; Chromium (as Chrome picolinate) 3.65mcg; Water; Xylitol; Emulsifier (GMO-free Sunflower lecithin); Glycerol; Polysorbate 80; Potassium sorbate; Mint aroma; Anti-oxidant (Vitamin E)”


  12. David Pollard May 7, 2020 at 8:41 am Reply

    Julia. I can just tell you what worked for me. I took Cipro for three weeks for prostate infection. Within days I couldn’t walk, or climb stairs. Terrible neuropathy and tendonitis. Used a wheel chair for months. A team of family physicians and naturopaths in Toronto put me on magnesium 800 mg a day, Co q10, alpha lipoid acid and B complex. Took time but fully recovered. Others on this site will tell you a variety of other treatments All good for them. We each have our own journey and belief in treatments. Lisa Bloomquist, my trusted authority on this illness was my guide. I can only tell you what worked for me and others being treated for same condition that I know personally.

    • Michael May 7, 2020 at 8:12 pm Reply

      Hi David, can I ask how long it took you? I’m about 10 months out from a 4 week course of cipro for prostatitis. I’m heaps better but still have a bit of lingering neuropathy.

    • Onder May 13, 2020 at 7:05 am Reply

      can you reach me?


      WHATSAPP: +905342887751

    • Tuula May 26, 2020 at 6:24 am Reply

      I live in the Toronto area, and have been very ill 4 years, my life was destroyed. I have SEVERE neuropathy, ringing & pulsatile tinnitus, double vision, headaches, muscle/nerve aches/pains, EVERY part of my body is suffering, and it’s like my GI tract and bladder/kidneys, etc. can’t take much more, and new health issues last year have begun likely due to this prolonged toxicity. Always been told I am healthy! I have seen many people including naturopaths trying to get help, wasted much $$$ and precious time. Yesterday I tried ubiquinol, l-threonate magnesium (had some still from years ago), this time my body actually gave me a sign of hope. I would like to learn the details of what you did to recover if possible.

  13. Andrea May 8, 2020 at 2:06 pm Reply

    Henk, how are things going? Any update would be appreciated 🙂

    • h May 8, 2020 at 11:08 pm Reply

      Yesterday had my second “burning”,and another 2 pockets of blood.Extremely tired,and,in contrast to the former blood transfusions,this one “kicked” in late in the evening.Just enough to reach my bedrom,where my neighbour woman helped me to take my clothes of and go to bed.Homecare showed it’s evil face,too;now I’m trying to take care of my tube feeding myself,with help of my dear great neighbours.Next week,mo,tu,we,the last 3 rounds of “burning”,and now I know these days,and the following week,could be the most terrible of my life.I hope that it works and opens the way to my stomach,getting rid of the tube feeding and starting veg,juices and the Dandelion tea.And CS.Full Beck protocol as soon as I get enough water in my body.

      • L May 9, 2020 at 9:37 am Reply

        Thanks for the update. And so glad for your neighbor! I don’t know if you read Mercola today but there was a piece on how clots are involved in many COVID deaths. Reading on, one thing he mentioned was an enzyme called Lumbrokinase. I have taken both nattokinase and serrapeptide (which I currently take to try to help thin the mucus issue.) But while these all share similarities, a couple things about the lumbrokinase caught my attention. First, it is said to help shrink tumors, so I thought of you. The second was that it is supposed to help treat Lyme and I know there are those on here dealing with Lyme as well. The only cautions seem to be to not take if you are on blood thinners or within a couple weeks of surgery.


      • Andrea May 9, 2020 at 3:49 pm Reply

        Thanks for the update Henk, I wish you good luck and I hope everything gets better, I think about you…

      • Virginia May 9, 2020 at 5:13 pm Reply

        Henk, I’m really sorry for all you’re going through: such a terrible ordeal. Sending healing thoughts and prayers your way.

      • Don M May 10, 2020 at 5:15 am Reply

        h …. Henk….. Don’t know what comforting thing to say so all I will say is get on the Beck protocol as soon as you can. I find that it takes at least 15 minutes of pulsing or light therapy to begin it’s effectiveness. Build to more as soon as you can. I also find that the light therapy does mitigate pain but again it takes at least 20 minutes to get the body’s endorphins activated. Because it has a track record of working I do put faith in the Beck protocol for correcting many health problems. Go for it! Don

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 10, 2020 at 10:49 am

          Thanks,all of you.I think that part of the horrible pain in my upper body is rom getting too little water in my feeding system.Both neighbours are helping now,to put one glass in,every 1 1/2-2 hours.As long as I’m short in water,the Beck Prot.is not possible;I only use the MP to (try to) limit the pain.Tomorrow,next “burning”,and the next 2 days again.This,and the pain,is eating all my energy;never felt so exhausted in my life.Still vommiting frequently;my neighbours comforting me wit ice cold water and a tiny bit of fresh lemon juice to swish through my mouth.

        • L May 10, 2020 at 11:15 am

          So sorry you are going through all of this. Grateful you have such caring neighbors to help you out.

  14. L May 9, 2020 at 9:39 am Reply

    and the lumbrokinase Lyme connection https://www.treatlyme.net/guide/lumbrokinase

  15. David May 10, 2020 at 3:20 pm Reply

    Michael. I was 10 months recovery . Electric wheel chair. When I tried to taper off the 800 mg of magnesium a day I worsened. Magnesium Bis Glycinate ( gentle formula) kept me going and had no effect on my stomach. CanPrev. Made in Canada Toronto Ontario
    Vegetable capsules. Pure elemental Magnesium. More than anything else I benefited from the magnesium at these amounts. Mitochondria are actually intracellular magnesium stores. The Cipro leeched the magnesium out of us.

  16. Tristine May 12, 2020 at 8:53 pm Reply

    Hello Everyone,
    For any of you that may be following any of the information related to PFAS (Perfluorinated Chemicals) as it relates to your Floxie experience, I’ve received a notice/invite to a web meeting event scheduled for this Thurs, 5/14 at 2pm Pacific/5pm Eastern from many of the advocates involved in the Dark Waters film. This topic is primarily in relation to the exposure for Military Servicemen & Women and their families as well as those that happen to live in close proximity to a military base. This event involves a moderator from EWG (Environmental Working Group), a retired US Army Pilot, Mark Ruffalo, & Rob Bilott. I’ve included the link to the website for anyone interested in the event and/or looking to RSVP and be in attendance.

  17. sri May 13, 2020 at 12:57 pm Reply

    Hi I took one dose of ciprofloxacin and after 6 days I am seeing pain in my elbows, hands, legs, left leg calves and the hip. Can someone suggest me the supplements needed to take to overcome the pain and the sleeping problem. Also, I have some issues with heartburn and I am not sure if any supplements will have any impact on the heartburn. Appreciate the help.

    • Virginia May 13, 2020 at 4:26 pm Reply

      Hi Sri, sorry about your symptoms, but since you were smart enough to stop Cipro after just one dose, you have a good chance of complete recovery. But nobody can predict how long that will take. Magnesium is usually the best supplement to start with for Cipro damage: any kind but oxide is good, and it’s best to take in divided doses throughout the day, up to 800 mg. The only downside is diarrhea if you take too much, and if you have heart issues you don’t want to overdose. You can also rub magnesium cream on your skin where it hurts, and take Epsom salts warm baths (which is a type of magnesium). If you take 200-300 mg. of magnesium at bedtime, it should help with sleep (same with the Epsom salts bath). I haven’t tried it, but have heard that melatonin and CBD oil help with sleep and pain. It’s good to work with a naturopathic doctor about further supplements for the Cipro damage, and s/he can advise about the heartburn too. You will want to find out if it’s caused by too much or too little stomach acid. If it’s too much acid, over the counter liquids with calcium and magnesium (not aluminum) can help. It’s wise not to leave that untreated, since constant ongoing heartburn can erode the esophagus and cause cancer. The prescription acid reducers can harm the body in different ways, which is why consulting a naturopath and googling natural heartburn remedies can help.

    • L May 13, 2020 at 4:59 pm Reply

      I echo what Virginia said. Also, you might want to browse through this. https://floxiehope.com/2015/10/12/im-floxed-now-what/

  18. Andrea May 13, 2020 at 2:08 pm Reply

    Hey Henk, hope I’m not bothering you, but today should be the last “burning day” for you, any update? are finally able to swallow again, or is it still too ealry?

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 14, 2020 at 9:09 am Reply

      Yesterday was the last “burning”.Today I felt more horrible than ever before,when I went to the hostital for 2 bags of blood.Before starting the transfusion my blood pressure was 100/73,and because of my exhaustion they brought me to a seperate room.Now I feel a little better,but the tiredness of the burning will take 1-2 weeks to go away,and after that the positive effects might come (I hope).One of my neighbours more or less quit helping me.She’s an old woman (71) with low intelligence,and can’t understand,nor accept that I can’t do simple things like clothing,or taking my clothes of before going to bed,with a little help.I can’t blame her;she’s born with the low intelligence and the low empatic ability,and I am glad for everything she did for me during the last few weeks.My polish neighbours,and my marocan friend stiil great!

      Had a visit by a homecare woman,yesterda,and just when I came back from the hospital,and she told me they couldn’t help me on the most important moments (getting out of bed,and preparing for the night),but they could offer me some less important help.When I refused,and told her I wanted to “shop around” a bit more,she tried to use the relation with my neighbour helpers to blackmail me into accepting the little help her company can offer.And kept on doing so,over and over again.Then,offering to send a collegae to do the same,tomorrow.Was hard to get rid of her,and I really started to get disgusted by her.Not the help I’m looking for!

      • L May 14, 2020 at 9:20 am Reply

        Oh, Henk I am so sorry that on top of all you are going through physically, you also have to deal with unsympathetic, obtuse workers. Just what you DON’T need. Well, hopefully the worst is behind you now. Good to know you still have a couple neighbors there to assist you.

      • Andrea May 14, 2020 at 8:26 pm Reply

        So sorry to read all this Henk, I know it doesn’t make any difference, but I want you to know that I often think about you and I hope you can soon find some relief.
        For those homecare ladies…I have no words…

      • Virginia May 16, 2020 at 5:21 pm Reply

        Henk, I think a lot about you too and send you healing energy. I’m really sorry to hear about your exhaustion, blood loss and unhelpful caregivers. I’m glad you still have helpful neighbors, and hope the tumor burning will help you swallow nourishment at some point.

      • Don M May 17, 2020 at 9:08 am Reply

        Henk……… Isn’t it interesting (I use interesting because not sure of another proper word) how one must fight the system when they least want to or are capable of doing it. Maybe it is best to have “low intelligence” helpers. They generally are not trying to tell you what to do.
        On the lighter side……. my Hulda Clark Zapper Pulser has crashed. Get nothing from it. Contacted the seller and they say that it is “under warranty”. But now I am waiting for them to act. Broke my Timex trying to get the back on after replacing the battery. Bought a new one and it has run for about 3 weeks, then crashed. I bought it at Walmart so it was easy to fill out the return online. Now they are out of stock so I can’t replace it now. Maybe later. I have used the same model Timex for about the past 20 years. This was my 4th one. Now I am wondering what is next.

  19. sri May 14, 2020 at 4:32 am Reply

    Good Morning

    Is there any good IFM CERTIFIED PRACTITIONER in Northern Virginia, who can help me with one dose of ciprofloxacin. Any help will be appreciated as the pains from this are more and can I buy the supplements in any GNC shop or there is a specified place i need to go to the supplements which people mention on this site. I already take vitamin d2 on weekly basis and with the heartburn I have want be very careful.


    • L May 14, 2020 at 9:12 am Reply
    • Bob May 14, 2020 at 10:08 am Reply

      If you can afford Dr. MUELLER in CA he might be able to knock it out fast. He uses homeopathic cipro. He works over the phone and has treated many cipro victims.

    • Virginia May 16, 2020 at 5:16 pm Reply

      Sri, you should be able to get supplements anywhere. Just be sure they’re good quality.

  20. Dee May 14, 2020 at 11:11 am Reply

    Bob! How are you doing?? This is Dee who worked with Mr Mueller for the last three years. I know you went to him for awhile too. How is everything going for you now?? I hope you are much better!!!

    • Bob May 14, 2020 at 11:24 am Reply

      I am in a lot of pain right now., I am trying micro current frequency devices. Too early to tell. COMING up on seven years of this hell next month.

      • L May 14, 2020 at 1:39 pm Reply

        Oh Bob…7 years. That’s awful. I’m at 5 1/2. I think micro current is a good thing to try. Also red light therapy. If the pain is related to actual structural damage eg tendons, meniscus, I would definitely give prolozone and/or PRP injections a try.

        • Bob May 14, 2020 at 5:46 pm

          ALREADY tried prolozone. Was going to try the prp or stem call but lost my job.

        • L May 14, 2020 at 7:00 pm

          sorry. I know how it is. I was unemployed when all this happened. I spent over $60,000 to date…all my savings and a lot of credit card debt.

      • Andrea May 14, 2020 at 8:33 pm Reply

        Seven years…Jesus…I remember that scumbag of a neurologist, when I went to her office, she told me that FQs side effects after a little while disappear, and FQs are just normal antibiotics…I mean, if you don’t know what the hell are you talking about, just keep your damn mouth shut and listen to what I’m telling to you, maybe you could learn soemething, but hey, what do they care!?

        • Don M May 15, 2020 at 9:04 pm

          Andrea ….. Do you really think a “highly educated ” doctor would keep their mouth shut? Yes they would if they were lying by omission. Would they admit that they know only what the drug companies tell them? Probably not. All kind of one sided.

      • Don M May 15, 2020 at 8:57 pm Reply

        Bob….. Microcurrent devices do work but the affects do not last. They must be repeated again and again.

        • Bob May 17, 2020 at 10:17 am

          Any specific device you are referring to? IF I buy the device I can use it as much as I want.

        • Don M May 18, 2020 at 1:53 pm

          Bob……….. Check out the Bob Beck Protocol. Easy find if you just google it. Microcurrents are used in many different devices. I assume you are talking about the Magnetic Pulser for your pain. The common most affordable and adequate ones on the market are the Sota Pulser and Dr. Hulda Clark’s MagZapper. There are many others at varying prices. I also found one on eBay that is reasonable that is a pad that has 4 pulsing coils in it and a fancy electronic hand control
          Wow! I wonder if this will post?
          Being a 16X24 pad it can cover a larger area than the ones with just a paddle coil.

          Also look into the cold laser. There is one that does just fine and it is made in Israel.
          Same specs as the expensive ones. Available on eBay. I can’t make any more online references because we are only limited to one per posting or the checker won’t post the reply. Also the infrared bulbs that have diodes that are in the 660 to 900 range. They are only about $30 to $40. They are not nearly as fast as the concentrated beam of the cold laser but they do work against pain and their cost does not run nearly $1,000.
          Be aware of something called Herxheimer. I won’t go into it but Google for it and understand it if you are using microcurrents. Using microcurrents (to much to often in the beginning) can kill off bacteria viruses and fungus in the body and they can overload the excretory systems and make one feel sicker until the body gets ahead of the curve.
          As I said in a previous post microcurrents and micro pulsing do work.

        • Bob May 18, 2020 at 2:41 pm

          I already have a zapper. I already tried pemf. I am looking at the scenar/cosmodic devices from Russia. They are not cheap.

  21. sri May 14, 2020 at 11:29 am Reply

    My doctor is saying that since I took only one dose you don’t need to work too much. He prescibed hgher dose of Vitamin D2 and B12 and suggested that help with the pains. I also bought the mutilvitamins and eating them, Any idea will this help with my pains.

    • L May 14, 2020 at 1:47 pm Reply

      While those are good the most important is to be taking magnesium…orotate or taurate or citrate or glycininate. (Citrate more likely to give you diaharrea) Damn. I’ve written that word 500 times and still can’t spell it. Anyhow, I would do as much as you can tolerate. I did 800 mg for months. Avoid NSAIDs, steroids, fluoridated water. Take a good probiotic and eat clean.

    • Madge Hirsch May 15, 2020 at 2:50 am Reply

      You would be better to take vit D 3 not 2. D3 is the form our bodies naturally make from sunshine. D2 is what plants have.

    • A.Coleman May 18, 2020 at 11:58 am Reply


      When you take the Vitamin D take the D3 form like Madge suggested, but also add in a bit of Vitamin K9. Vitamin K is a co-factor necessary for Vitamin D to act. Also the best thing you can do is get sunlight (not too much at a time obviously) but natural Vitamin D production is best and D can be stored by your body since it is a fat-soluble vitamin.

      As L notes adding in Mg is critically important. I would go for the Mg glycinate or Mg threonate.

      And you do need B vitamins, but don’t take just B12 take a full comlement of all B vitamins and make sure that they are the methylated version – methylcobalmin (B12), methylfolate (B9), and other bioactive versions. You might also check out your MTHFR status. Lots of floxies have non-normal MTHFR genetic makeups and this will impact your B vitamin supplementation.

      • L May 18, 2020 at 12:41 pm Reply

        I believe it is K2 you want to add.

  22. Dee May 14, 2020 at 11:47 am Reply

    Bob. Sorry to hear you are still struggling and in pain. I hope the new treatment will help you. Didn’t you get a bad relapse from Septocaine?? I can’t remember if that was you?? It is unbelievable to me that you are still struggling. I pray yuh will find relief some how some way

    • Bob May 14, 2020 at 6:07 pm Reply

      The septocain increased my pain about 500 %. That was over 3 yrs ago.

  23. sri May 14, 2020 at 12:36 pm Reply

    Thanks L. I live in D.C. Area and I have to look out for someone in this area.

  24. L May 14, 2020 at 3:52 pm Reply

    Bronwen and Melissa (and anyone else who ended up with costochondritis from a flq)…I had it and it eventually went away on its own. I am trying to help out a friend, and I wonder…did you ever find anything to help with it? Thanks

  25. Dee May 14, 2020 at 6:57 pm Reply

    Bob, so sorry the Septocaine caused you to get so much worse. Being floxed and trying to recover is bad enough let alone another medication adding more to your pain. I know it has been a long journey already making you suffer for 7 years but I hope time will still provide you some more relief. Hopefully you can get your job back or another after all this Coronavirus stuff is over. Please hang in there. Hopefully you can get stem cell in the future!!!

  26. Roxanne May 15, 2020 at 4:52 am Reply

    Has anyone gotten a flu vaccine? My doctor convince to get one in February and I haven’t felt good since. Just wondering if anyone eles has had this experience.

    • Sheila May 15, 2020 at 7:55 am Reply

      I take the flu shot every year and have had no ill effects and look forward to it actually cause I know it will help me stay well with all the other issues I have I don’t need to get the flu but the worst thing I have had is a bruise where the injection was given and pain in my arm. I guess with toxins in the body it could cause a mild flare up but not sure if that’s the case. Since these flu vaccines are no longer live viruses I doubt it, but every body handles things differently. I usually go the flip side of everything – if it causes bleeding I won’t bleed, if it causes pain I won’t have any, I do whatever is totally opposite of the side effect.

    • L May 15, 2020 at 9:34 am Reply

      Have not gotten one since floxed. Last one was 2014. Doctor advised against it. I’m terrified of this push for mandatory vaccines.

    • Virginia May 16, 2020 at 5:19 pm Reply

      Roxanne, like Sheila I too get the flu shot every year with no ill effects. I didn’t used to get the shot, but then one year got a bad case of flu which put me down for a month. Now I never get the flu. It is possible to have adverse effects from the shot. It’s an individual decision about whether to get the shot, since we all react differently.

  27. Roxanne May 15, 2020 at 4:56 am Reply

    It’s been almost 2 months since getting a flu shot and I’m still experiencing some awful side effects. Not sure if it’s from the flu vaccine or if it’s a relaspe of Cipro symptoms. Any ideas?

    • L May 15, 2020 at 9:40 am Reply

      It could well be the vaccine. There are some toxic adjuvants in vaccines, like preservatives, antibiotics, sugar, aluminum. and others. And if you get the one for seniors, there is even more stuff in it.

      • Bob May 15, 2020 at 10:05 am Reply

        I am sure that’s very likely. My dad had a stroke from the swine flu vaccine back in the 80’s. I fear they may try to make civic vaccine mandatory.

        • L May 15, 2020 at 10:22 am

          That terrifies me Bob. There is so much over-reach right now. HR 6666 is to amass countrywide workers to test and track covid, including allowing them to enter your home. Some real civil liberties breached. I encourage everyone in th US to write their representative to vote no. This is just a first step. (And bill gates is pushing not only for mandatory vaccines for all, but also below-the-skin tattoos to register that you have been vaccinated. Scary times.)

    • Madge Hirsch May 16, 2020 at 4:01 pm Reply

      Floxies have reported flu jabs bringing on relapses according to the guy who has myquinstory website. This happened to me though at the time I knew nothing about floxing. I worked it pit later. I never have flu jabs now relying on a high level of vit D and taking NAC.

  28. A.Coleman May 18, 2020 at 12:08 pm Reply

    Hey everyone, hope your all doing well.

    Wanted to do a quick post on the HOPE side of Floxie Hope. I went for the last week with only exceptionally mild floxie symptoms. I was at least 95% of normal every day. That is the best stretch I have had since being floxed over 4 years ago. I am not ready to call it recovery yet, but those “normal” days were wonderful.

    Of course when symptoms start creeping in, which they did today it is really hard to take; but I’m still on a course to recovery hopefully in the next nine to twelve months. I do note that as I have been getting closer to well my “recovery rate” has slowed.

    Other reason for posting is that one of the things I did recently was change my Magnesium to include Mg Threonate for about 2/3 of my total Mg intake. It has helped my insomnia (I am sleeping through the night about half the time now) and also helped my brain fog, which is the primary symptom still impacting my life. If you haven’t tried that form of Mg, which can cross the blood – brain barrier give it a try.

  29. Orf May 19, 2020 at 2:42 pm Reply

    How much Magnesium is every one taking? I am doing 400 mg thinking of going up to 800 mg.

    Thanks and God Bless everyone fighting this hellish poison drug (Levofloxcian etc)


    • L May 19, 2020 at 4:36 pm Reply

      I took 800 for the first year or so. I am over 5 years out and still take 400

    • A.Coleman May 19, 2020 at 7:07 pm Reply

      Orf, I took 600mg Mg glycinate for my first year. Then I went down to 400 mg of Mg glycinate for about 6 months before landing at 200mg for the last three years. Recently I added Mg threonate at 133mg along with 100 mg Mg glycinate and 50mg in a multi-vitamin I started taking.

    • Virginia May 20, 2020 at 7:32 pm Reply

      Orf, I’m taking about 500 mg. a day in divided doses, including Mg Malate, Bisglycinate, Citrate, Threonate (at bedtime) and ReMag liquid solution. I also use Mg lotion/spray as needed for stiff muscles and twice a week take a bath with 2 cups of Epsom Salts (Mg. sulfate). 800 might be doable if in divided doses, but I know even Mg can have side effects if too much is taken.

  30. L May 19, 2020 at 4:35 pm Reply

    No for any vaccines for me. This talk of mandated vaccines scares the hell out of me. They are TOXIC.

  31. Andrea S. May 19, 2020 at 5:26 pm Reply

    Hi everyone. Is anyone in touch with Henk outside of here? I had read his last post and just wondered if anyone has gotten an update? It appared he was in rough shape. I was so sorry to hear of his circumstances. Henk if you are reading this I hope your doing ok.

    • L May 19, 2020 at 5:36 pm Reply

      I was just wondering the same thing

  32. Andrea S. May 19, 2020 at 5:29 pm Reply

    David I am not a fan of vaccines. I got a vaccine series last spring which I think started my whole health issue which eventually caused me to take cipro. I HATE the idea of a vaccine. I hate the idea of any pharmacuticals. However we have a relative who got Covid and it’s almost killed him he is still hospitalized and was on a ventilator for 3 weeks. This gives me great pause. I might consider it but I won’t be first in line.

    • L May 19, 2020 at 5:38 pm Reply

      Sadly the respirators are contributing to many deaths. They can damage the lungs. It’s infuriating that they will only use chemical cocktails when they would likely have a good outcome with things like ozone or hyperbaric or high dose vitamin C IVs.

    • A.Coleman May 19, 2020 at 7:14 pm Reply

      The discussion of vaccines was covered about half way up this page. It is a personal decision. I do not take the regular yearly flu vaccines at my integrative medicine specialists suggestion; but when there is a coronavirus vaccine I will probably take it.

      My one concern is how fast the pharmacuetical companies are rushing to develop. A thorough examination of side effects will not be done using this rush approach and as a floxie I know all too well about side effects.

      I don’t think Floxie Hope is the correct forum for debating vaccines other than their potential impact on us as floxies. Based on the experiences of others who have posted it is possible to take a vaccine as a floxie and not have an adverse reaction; so for something as transmittable and virulent as COVID-19 I will probably take it; but won’t be at the front of the line.

      • Sheila May 20, 2020 at 10:02 am Reply

        I agree, my doctor once told me that one should never take anything until it has been on the market for a minimum of 7 years that way all the known side affects are noted and labeled however, with the covid19 vaccine we won’t have the privilege of 7 years before we need to take it since it’s such a deadly virus, but hopefully those of us with toxins that react will have a better understanding after the vaccine has been out for a few months etc. I will most likely take it but it will be after a long period of observation on my part. I have had absolutely no reactions to any vaccines I have had since being floxed none, I am extremely thankful for that one blessing, making me very hopeful that this covid19 one will be the same we shall see. Everybody stay informed, well and safe!!! Henk if you’re listening I hope you are doing reasonably well hope to hear from you soon.

        • Bob May 20, 2020 at 4:11 pm

          There is an article in Forbes about the civic vaccine being mandstory.

        • L May 20, 2020 at 4:30 pm

          do you have the link? I did find one forbes article on the covid vaccine but did not find the word mandatory in it

        • Bob May 20, 2020 at 5:06 pm

          Check the Guardian News, US.

        • L May 20, 2020 at 5:58 pm

          found several articles by them on covid and vaccines, but not that

        • Bob May 21, 2020 at 12:02 pm

          Google: Alan Dershowitz mandatory vaccine. IT’S in Forbes.

      • Virginia May 20, 2020 at 7:39 pm Reply

        I agree with A. Coleman and Sheila about vaccines. As A. says, this is likely not the forum to discuss vaccines except insofar as they impact our Cipro toxicity. But since the subject has come up, I like Sheila have not had any adverse vaccine effects since being floxed 5 years ago, except for the newest Shingles vaccine which gave me a day of fever. I think vaccines are always a risk-benefit calculation and a personal decision. Unless the COVID vaccine is made mandatory, each of us must decide if the risk of the vaccine or COVID is greater. I would likely pick the vaccine, since my immunity may already be lower due to my Lyme disease. Also, my husband is 71, and also has Lyme, so I would worry that my non-vaccination would put him in danger. As Sheila says, we may not have the luxury of waiting years to see how safe the vaccine is, given the fair degree of virulence of this virus.

        • Bob May 21, 2020 at 11:43 am

          Mandatory or not I will never let someone inject an unknown substance INTO me. I know doctors and nurses that refuse to get vacines.

        • L May 21, 2020 at 4:59 pm

          I’m with you Bob. I have read too much about the toxic adjuvants. And my pulmonologist also told me not to get it. If they say it’s mandatory, no idea what I will do. They will have to take me kicking and screaming.

        • Bob May 21, 2020 at 7:17 pm

          What they will do is make hard to do anything unless you comply, like not letting the kids in school. I HAVE BEEN dealing with this all my life. First with my children then my grandson. When my daughter was young she got whooping cough from a boy in school who sat next to her and had just been vaccinated. One nutritional IV kicked it out. The son of a friend went into convulsions right after a DPT shot. The doctor said their was no connection. I believe this whole pandemic was created to FORCE a vaccine on us. Anyone who won’t take it will be treated like a leper. That may sound paranoid but I just look at what’s happening now. My grandson had to get a letter from the doctor to PROVE he wasn’t carrying some disease so he could go to camp, They think IF you aren’t vaccinated you’re. carrying diseases. Did you ever read what they put in that stuff, it’s horrific. The pandemic will be used to turn the majority against the few. DO YOU really think aids came from a monkey and Convid-19 from a bat. IT’S all b.s.. They don’t care about our health or cipro would have been banned 20 years ago. It’s all about money and control.

        • L May 21, 2020 at 7:41 pm

          Agreed again. Before the Vaccine Compensation Act in 1986 (which has paid out 4 BILLION for “safe” vaccine injuries) there were around 12 childhood vaccines. When that fund was set up it also protected the vaccine makers from any liability for injury. (They can be sued for fraudulent practices and that they have. Just google DOJ and Merck or Sanofi, or Phizer…and you can see the payouts.) But once there was no liability the number of childhood vaccines skyrocketed and now we’re up to something like 67 or 72. And I think this IS an important topic for this site since we are already damaged by pharmaceuticals. And since you mentioned whooping cough, ” “The dramatic resurgence of whooping cough is due, in large part, to vaccinated people who are infectious but who do not display the symptoms.” (Science Daily, 2015)

        • Sheila May 21, 2020 at 7:55 pm

          yes if you understand viruses and how they jump species it is no stretch that this came from animals, the hideous way that the USA and other countries treat animals they see as “food” causes these viruses that should stay within that species to have the ability to jump species. This was not created to force vaccines on us, there is no way that the whole world got together somehow some way and agreed to do something that would cause millions of people to die or get deathly ill just to force a vaccine, no way would they cause their own economies to tank and become non viable just to sell a vaccine that is not economically intelligent or profitable and it has to be profitable for a country to tank and kill their own citizens and you can’t get a group of 10 people to agree on something much less a world of different countries with different cultures and beliefs.
          As for the vaccine usually if you can prove you have a medical reason to not take the vaccine you will be released from the requirement. I almost died from the measles vaccine when it was a live virus, but we do what we have to for the good of the majority at least we used to. We all take risks every day that will only affect us but when our risk taking affects the life and possible death of others then it becomes a bigger responsibility. I do not want to be responsible for someone else dying but that’s me.
          Mandatory will come with exceptions it always does.

        • Bob May 22, 2020 at 5:45 pm

          The whole world doesn’t have to be in on it. Only a relatively few people need to be in on it. Once it is released with worldwide travel it spreads rapidly. Follow the money. You are proving my point. You think you need to get injected with an unknown substance that you have no idea if it will harm you, and have no practical recourse IF it does. You think this will protect society. That’s what they count on. It’s your “civic duty,” I know a Cleaveland Clinic doctor who was fired for not pushing vaccines because they were hurting his patients. “Trust your doctor” They tell you. He is the high priest of our culture. Disobey and you are a heretic. If I HAVE learned anything it’s don’t trust doctors, big pharma or govt.

        • Sheila May 22, 2020 at 8:18 pm

          I have not proved your point – the fact that I almost died from the measles vaccine was used to show that there will be some people who will react to a vaccine there is NO 100% free of side affects vaccine – people will react differently but when the majority has shown that there is immunity and safety then yes we take our chances at that point. The hydroxychloroquine is a good example the scientists have stepped up and said DO NOT TAKE THIS IT IS NOT SAFE, it is safe for lupus and other conditions when nothing else works – but do not use this for off label uses – if we lived in total paranoia of pharma and scientists then we wouldn’t believe either of these remarks yet ask lupus patients if they need this med and they will say yes. We cannot pull every medicine off the shelves that harms someone – as we get older we are supposed to be careful with Benadryl cause as we age it will affect us differently – should it be removed cause some people have reactions or misuse it?? at some point you have to trust someone and for me it’s stats and studies and science and I have a good base of medical knowledge to make good decisions thank god. But there is no way that people are going to start a pandemic to make the minor bucks that vaccines would pull in after half the population dies off. However, if you want to go down a road of greed during this pandemic – the USA president didn’t respond and is still not responding to eradicate this virus in part cause the admin has an agenda to help insurance companies and the admin has concluded that it is a simple matter to remove insurance by creating policy which I think actually got passed that states anyone who has antibodies or has had the covid19 virus is now considered to have pre-existing conditions and therefore their insurance companies can refuse to cover anything that might be covid related – with the way the virus works that would be any organ failure, heart failure, vascular issues, sinus issues, etc. which basically means anything you come down with after covid will not be covered. Now that’s greed, that’s something we can stick a fork in and say this is real. There’s a long list of items on the agenda of the admin that is being easily and readily checked off with the pandemic but saying it was man made, or deliberately released, or any other non proven source is not helpful – which it really doesn’t matter at this point in time where it came from – we need to be concentrating on saving lives sourcing it is being done but let’s wait to hear the final stats on that before getting paranoid. Let’s look at what’s happening – removing our coverage for illnesses – those of us on this site I am sure rely heavily on coverage and to think any one of us that gets this virus will no longer be able to convince our insurance company to cover anything in the future is frightening. If we get kidney failure due to fluoro drugs we will have to fight like hell to prove it wasn’t covid related and a pre existing condition – this is more worrisome on a daily basis than where did it come from. I am really worried about this new policy on pre existing conditions that they have ramrodded through.

        • Virginia May 22, 2020 at 5:47 pm

          Bob, please stop with the conspiracy theories. There is no evidence whatsoever that the “pandemic was created to force a vaccine on us.” This is ridiculous. As Sheila says, why would any country want to ruin their country’s economy with this pandemic? All reputable scientists believe that the virus arose from an animal and was not cooked up in a lab. Your spreading false theories is not helping anyone on this site, and I wish our moderator would put a stop to it as is being done on other health chat sites I visit. It’s one thing to narrowly focus our discussion on whether vaccines help or hurt us with our Cipro damage; it’s another thing entirely to bring up wild, untrue conspiracy theories; that helps nobody.

        • Bob May 22, 2020 at 5:59 pm

          You have no information to PROVE its not true except your faith in “The system,” If vaccines are safe why does big pharma need liability protection.. Why did the supreme court rule that big pharma has no liability for generics when that is 80% of prescriptions. The virus is very real. The question is where did it come from. You want to shut me up because the idea some people are that corrupt makes you uncomfortable. Well it should.

        • Virginia May 22, 2020 at 6:20 pm

          Bob, it is not just my opinion. No reputable doctor or scientist would agree that the pandemic was created to force a vaccine on us. I never said that all vaccines were perfectly safe; my mother got a strange neurological reaction from the swine flu shot 40 years ago which lasted for weeks. I got a day of fever from the Shingles vaccine. I know that others have had adverse vaccine effects. I agree with you that big pharma should not have liability protection, and I deplore the fact that those taking generics can’t sue. I too have been damaged by big pharma by Cipro (3 partially ruptured tendons and ongoing tendon problems for 6 years now) and I hate big pharma. I took generic Cipro, and believe me, I’d love to sue. They need to be called to account, and we need laws to regulate them more. The only thing I disagreed with was you saying that the pandemic was created to force a vaccine! That is an absurd statement which has no basis in reality. I’m not trying to shut you up because the idea of corrupt people makes me uncomfortable! I already know how much corruption there is in the pharmaceutical world and often in the political world where we as patients are not protected. I’m simply asking you not to spread invalid conspiracy theories. This is not the forum for that. This site exists to spread correct information about fluoroquinolone toxicity and how to heal from it. We should stick to that mission.

        • Bob May 22, 2020 at 7:40 pm

          You call it absurd and invalid. That is exactly what they say about the idea that vaccines are not safe. It is not absurd and invalid just because you believe it to be. I of course can’t PROVE it but based on evidence I would not rule it out. If it was so absurd you should be able to PROVE it but you can’t.

        • Sheila May 22, 2020 at 7:58 pm

          It helps to remember that other corporations also have liability waivers like car manufacturers they are held to some regulations but they also get a free pass on some things, there is no guarantee with anything – none; Generics get a pass from being held responsible for being exactly like the drug they are copying otherwise they would just BE the drug they are copying so they get the liability waiver in case there are components in the copied drug that are not in the original that may cause side affects. It’s not necessarily correct and one reason I always demand the original version. They have fillers and fillers themselves can cause reactions. Even attorneys have liability waivers for their care of their clients as do counselors and other businesses – a liability release is not a sign of criminal wrongdoing or intentional harm to others.
          It does pay to be cautious cause we are all dealing with our own weird responses to drugs that we may need to take for this or that, but it also pays to be extremely informed and not paranoid about anyone with authority or scientific background, training and knowledge. Medicines have saved us – our lifespans have doubled our wellness is much stronger but yes it came at risk and it came with death. We have rid ourselves of some diseases that would have wiped us out a long time ago. But complete distrust of anything new and promising just because it’s a vaccine doesn’t help anyone make informed decisions. It confuses the matter, we need strong science based stats to make our informed decisions about our health and these paranoid ideas that everything medical or pharma related is solely to harm us is just not helpful.
          If the science backs up your conspiracy theory then we can reassess it then but right now we need to absorb the facts as they are presented by science right now.

        • L May 22, 2020 at 8:28 pm

          No comparison. I have a legal background and I can tell you that NO ONE has a liability waiver like the vaccine industry, On one.

        • Sheila May 22, 2020 at 8:40 pm

          I also have a legal background and a medical background so we can agree that the pharma is greedy for sure but every business has a liability waiver every one of them. They are no different, except they have a wider population getting their product.
          And yes it needs to be revamped but this vaccine terror is not reasonable and is verging on ridiculous.

        • L May 22, 2020 at 8:15 pm

          We all share one thing on this site. We have been damaged, some of us horrifically, by a fluoroquinolone. The FDA and Bayer and J & J have KNOWN for decades how devastatingly toxic these drugs are and done nothing to curtail their use. In fact, they have fought tooth and nail to even prevent warnings from being listed. Why? Greed. I don’t know why it is so hard to imagine then that this global behemoth is not just salivating now at the prospect of treatments and vaccines. Do I wear a mask in stores? Yes. But we would have been far better had the disease been allowed to spread, immunity been naturally acquired, than what is happening now. The Spanish flu took about 5% of the populations’ lives. It is expected 2-3% will die from COVID. And how many more will die from domestic violence; suicide; fear of going to the hospital with other life threatening conditions, etc But by “flattening the curve” and preventing natural spread, it makes a vaccine seem like the only thing that will “save” us. (and so we are told.) Bill Gates, arguably the richest man in the world (and partner to Bayer/Monsanto) has the ear of WHO, as the largest independent contributor. His goal is to have every single person on the planet vaccinated and tracked; both of which will accomplish a couple things. First, he stands to make a lot of money through his GAVI foundation for the vaccines and Microsoft for the tracking. Second, he has always been big on population-control. A worthy goal in general ..but he admits vaccines are part of that goal. “If we do a great job with vaccines, healthcare and reproductive services” (we can lower the population number. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fh3NsxeS7M

          Pharma rules the world. Since the 1986 Vaccine Compensation Act, vaccine makers have been immune from any liability for injuries from vaccines. It’s a trillion dollar industry. Some of the top makers are Phizer, Sanofi, GSK and Merck. While they cannot be sued for injury, they can be for fraud. These are global giants. Go ahead and do a search of DOJ and anyone of them and see what you find. I don’t know why it’s such a stretch to believe this is a global agenda. And Fauci, the god of the moment, took dangerous corona lab work that was shut down here for safety reason, to Wuhan China. Google the Newsweek article “Dr Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with US Dollars.”

          The global elite are in control….pharma, the telecoms, with their health nightmare 5g rolling out a 24/7 RF exposure (gates has his hand in that with satellites galore…the better for his tracking system.) They buy their doctors and their “science.” What you are NOT seeing are the very credible, well-educated doctors who believe differently. ( And btw many of the covid numbers are exaggerated, just as flu numbers are grossly exaggerated each year to push the flu vaccine. And many of the deaths are occurring from use of ventilators which damage the lungs.) Not conspiracy. Just blocked by MSM because it doesn’t pay the bills.

          As I began, we are all in this FLQ boat together. We can believe different things…but please don’t mock someone who believes differently than you do.

        • Sheila May 22, 2020 at 8:35 pm

          Wow, I’m horrified that anyone would say this virus should have just been allowed to run rampant and infect anyone and everyone to get herd immunity – there is absolutely no proof there is any immunity – none – we don’t get immunity to the flu, we don’t get immunity to sinus infections, we don’t get immunity from pneumonia there are a ton of viruses we will never have immunity too. By saying that it should have been allowed to spread willy nilly and then land where it will and whomever is alive is alive and those dead will be dead – well if I get it I will die – so your post says it’s ok for me to die in order to just not worry about a vaccine.

          You know what WOULD work – literally science has proven this one – let the virus die off naturally – all viruses will die off if they do not have a host to live off of – you know how you do that – you stay inside you shutdown you stay the hell inside till it dies, science has shown that the life of this virus might have shutdown the country or the world for 3 weeks but had we done it this damn thing would not be killing a 9/11 attack every day that’s over 3,000 people a day – all because people were too damn self centered to stay home and allow business to shutdown for 3 solid weeks in order to KILL it. New Zealand has almost done this – it is possible and then you track yes it’s a bit of privacy invasion but you track it to keep it from spreading again and getting out of hand. But the selfishness of people not wanting to inconvenience themselves for 3 weeks is sickening. We are letting people die by the hundreds of thousands so no one feels sad or pinched financially – that’s where most governments are filling the gaps financially to enable their people to stay in.

          There is no safety in allowing people to get it and die and the lucky ones survive – saying let it spread is telling me I am expendable – I have lung issues I am a leg amputee due to a vascular birth defect so guess what – this virus eats the vascular system for breakfast and causes it to fail – well with a birth defect that is vascular consider me dead if I get it. There is NO ONE that should be told oh by the way we will let it spread and if you die oh well the rest of us are hoping for immunity – it’s a new virus but we hope we will have immunity if you get it along with the rest of us – oh you will die – oh I’m sorry, I won’t die so I think it should spread. There is NO science that proves there is any immunity and the very very few that they are studying science is even saying if there is immunity it could just be for days or a week or so – so far there is nothing to back up everyone getting it this is as crazy as saying we need to have chickenpox parties – children die from chickenpox and you play roulette with your child?? this is the most amazing post and the most disturbing I have seen and that includes the conspiracy theories.
          I guess those with cancers and other immune issues are just supposed to die too, cause you hope for a herd immunity that is not even a possibility, wow…..total disregard for those of us who WILL die if we get it and those who are carriers and never get sick they will just kill those of us off that have pre existing issues. Thanks.

          Shocking, hurtful and amazing.

        • L May 22, 2020 at 10:11 pm

          Horrified? Shocking? add up all the (overinflated) deaths that have already occurred and then add to that all the non-covid deaths that will occur because of it. And I am also in the “at risk” group, as an asthmatic. But as I have said, many of these deaths could have been prevented by not using a ventilator. And while they are been tinkering around with different pharmaceuticals, they had success in china with high dose vitamin C IV. I’ve been told by more than one doctor that ozone therapy would get rid of it. Some people have died unnecessarily because of the treatment they had to endure, and because the pharma-trained AMA and its doctors refuse to look outside pharmaceutical answers.

          You are focusing ONLY on Covid deaths, and again the numbers are likely inflated, just like with the flu. Take a look at the whole picture. https://www.wate.com/news/local-news/knox-county-mayor-recent-suicide-rate-shocking/

          And now I am leaving floxie hope for awhile. It’s bad for my health.

        • Sheila May 23, 2020 at 9:43 am

          actually deaths are UNDERinflated since they are unsure of who has died at home alone from the virus. This craziness of over inflated deaths, or ventilators killing people is not helpful. A ventilator is a last resort before death you realize that right? And some people like me with a throat stricture could be harmed with the insertion of a ventilator yes. But as a last resort before death I doubt there are a ton of deaths because of ventilators ask the people who have survived solely because a ventilator. And yes it’s shocking to hear that the virus should have just been allowed to run rampant and infect and kill at will when the easiest thing was to have shutdown immediately even now – and give the damn thing the ability to die off naturally.
          Science is science there are not alternative science – you take a multitude of results and compare them you don’t take one source and run with it, you take various methods and various studies and if they all come up with the same result the overwhelming answer is that is the right answer.

          I never thought that I would come to a group that needs to rely on science to get well and studies whether or not you use holistic methods or not even those should be studied with consistent results, this group shares links to the “proofs” for their statements that a methodology used in science……..so this disbelief of science is insane. Yes there is greed in every freaking business in the world today but there are also good people in every business too. Take the info and make and informed decision.
          But this virus is nothing like the flu it’s not being inflated for god’s sake what is it with this group and conspiracy theories about this virus. In the usa over 100,000 people have died in less than 2 1/2 months that is not the flu it is nothing like the flu, this leaves people who have had it with 20-30% less lung capacity. It results in pneumonia that can result in the need for a ventilator to survive. Most people die from organ failure due to blood clots or a total vascular shutdown not a ventilator if they are on a ventilator this is a sad outcome. But saying deaths are overinflated is disrespectful to the hundreds of thousands of people who are dead. I am still shocked to hear such callousness you can complain all day long about pharma greed and medical greed but to say these deaths are inaccurate is mean, spiteful and totally uninformed and that’s also shocking coming from a group of people who seem to be very caring about people’s suffering till now apparently.

      • Krabiwi May 23, 2020 at 7:14 pm Reply

        ” It is expected 2-3% will die from COVID.”
        L. I basically agree with you, anyway all randomized studies indicate a mortality rate of only up to 0.5%.

        This WHO milkmaid calculations are completely wrong as they count everyone that dies because of car, stairs and swimming accidents etc as corona victims if they get tested positive. So yes a big inflation.

        I was corona infected and tested positive and it was like normal flu after 2 weeks it was gone.

        A 90 year old friend of my grand mother also was tested positive and she didn’t even notice her corona infection.

        As far I know the hospital tent in NYC central park wasn’t used at all.

        It’s one big mass medial fired hysteria to lock us up, take our rights and give big pharma a new field of profit with useless vaccines.

        • Virginia May 24, 2020 at 7:16 pm

          LISA, as MODERATOR, would you please shut down these ridiculous conspiracy theories? Other health sites I belong to have done so in the interest of public health. It is completely irresponsible to say that the media is hyping the crisis in order to keep people locked up and their rights taken away so as to profit off a covid vaccine. This is pure paranoia with no basis in reality. These kinds of irresponsible theories can lead to death, if people believe them and don’t take the proper precautions against this dangerous virus. Krabiwi, you and the others on this site have no credibility with these debunked theories which are debunked by all reputable doctors and scientists.. The covid death rate is much higher than what you claim, and deaths from it are undercounted, not inflated, due to the lack of testing and disease tracking. It is far more dangerous than the flu, since it’s a new virus with no immunity and no vaccine. The death rate is far higher than the flu, and it often leaves behind physical damage which may be long-lasting or permanent. This virus has killed 100,000 Americans in 2 1/2 months. You don’t see those death rates with the flu. As for L saying the virus should be left to run its course, I too am shocked by the callousness of such a statement. Experts predicted that millions in the US would have died had no mitigation measures been taken, and a recent study shows that if the US had closed down just a week earlier, more than 30,000 lives would have been saved. Look at Sweden’s example: they have not shut down, and have a death rate 8 times higher than their neighbor Norway. 389 per million have died in Sweden, but just 43 in Norway, 55 in Finland and 97 in Denmark. What’s more, experts predict that Sweden’s economy will be in the worst shape of any European country this year, so their non-mitigation hasn’t even helped the economy. Do you really wish this on the US? As Sheila says, this distrust of science is insane (and selective: you use scientific studies to prove Cipro damage, so why not when it comes to covid?) I too thought all group members here cared about physical suffering, so why not when it comes to covid? Of course we should look at non-pharmaceutical treatment measures for covid like IV vit. C and oxygen, etc. Nobody is disputing that. For me, the fewer pharmaceuticals, the better. Yes, of course mental health is declining in this isolation time, but the relatively few suicides from covid though tragic, don’t compare with the death toll from the virus itself. And as Sheila says, this vaccine terror is not reasonable and verges on ridiculous. Most of us, including me, have had some adverse vaccine reactions. That doesn’t mean we should do away with them entirely! Vaccines have saved uncounted millions of lives, with relatively very few deaths from the vaccines themselves. That is scientific fact.

        • Bob May 25, 2020 at 4:52 pm

          What actions should be taken to deal with the virus is being lumped in with a referendum on vaccines. Personally I am doing everything I can to avoid the virus. As far as vaccines I do not trust the CDC at all. The have shut down whistle blowers trying to alert the public of contamination. I know doctors and nurses who will not take them. You have no idea how many people have been harmed by them because no one would allow a true study to be done. I suppose you think everyone should be vaccinated wether they want it or not. This site has sure changed since I was on last. You know the truth and anyone disagreeing needs to be silenced. You can get vaccinated if you want but leave the rest of us alone.

  33. Andrea May 19, 2020 at 8:34 pm Reply

    Andrea S.,
    as you mentioned, this is a rough rough time for Henk, his last post was on May 14, so 6 days ago. I’d like to have a daily update from him, but I understand this is not possible. He needs to rest, but I’ve decided that, every week, if he doesn’t “show up” here, I’ll send a message asking some update from him. Well, now that I’m here, Henk, if you read this, please let us know how are you doing, we’re thinking about you!

    • Andrea S. May 20, 2020 at 10:55 am Reply

      Thanks so you have contact with him outside of this forum? If you find anything out please keep us posted. I have been concerned since his last post.

      • Andrea May 20, 2020 at 2:04 pm Reply

        No, I don’t have any contact with him outside of this website

  34. Orf May 20, 2020 at 1:48 am Reply

    Thank you all I will go with 800.
    Best to everyone keep punching

  35. L May 20, 2020 at 2:58 pm Reply

    Hey, Lisa…we’re all concerned about Henk. He hasn’t posted in a while. Do you have any way to contact him to see if he is ok?

    • Andrea S. May 20, 2020 at 5:12 pm Reply

      L I hope he is hanging in there I was concerned I hope Lisa will be able to reach him.

  36. Larry May 22, 2020 at 11:55 pm Reply

    Just wanted to say hello and hope everyone is well.

  37. Sheila May 23, 2020 at 9:54 am Reply

    I have had serious floaters since cipro – my eye surgeon, who is the top eye surgeon in my area, has discussed the only answer for those he says is the removal of the vitreous fluid in the eye and putting new fluid in he says it’s dangerous and not recommended at all. Not sure if that’s what you are referring to as a procedure, if so really research it cause it sounds very risky.

    I will say that after 2 years of feeling like I couldn’t see at all because of all the floaters I am doing better, I stopped painting, as an artist I literally had to quit painting due to the floaters, I would have to shake my head side to side or up/down to move the floaters to see to paint and I had to do that every few seconds so it became impossible to paint. After a couple of years I did see improvement and I can now see most days without a lot of difficulty. If I am overly tired I will have more of them. Also my eye surgeon is very concerned about the detached retina risk with cipro poisoning and is having me come in every 6 months for the next year or so to stay on top of that. So if you can handle it I would suggest patience and see if yours clears up, your eyes are one of the most important senses so be careful.

    • selcem May 23, 2020 at 10:27 am Reply

      Before my toxicity, I had floaters issue also but I really suspect i had this anibiotic class in the past also. As my retina had holes, I had argon laser photocoagulation. I think removal of vitreous fluid is very risky, doctor said it also. Do you think gut issues contribute to floaters? I really feel it. Whenever my gut gets worse, my vision and floaters worsen a lot.

    • Barbara Arnold May 25, 2020 at 10:19 pm Reply

      WOW just WOW. Sheila, you have completely missed my point. You have written what seems like a long lecture to us all as if you are the only one with this information. I posted a podcast which is by scientists, Doctors, and a Nobel Prize winner. It is a two hour podcast, which a lot of people would not have the patience to listen to, but I did. It answers all questions about Covid19, masks , numbers, pre conditions, the most vunerable, studies, other countries etc. I posted it for some one like you whom I thought would be interested. With respect Sheila I find it very patronising that you have decided you are the only one here that has any knowledge on the subject and that you are right and every one else is wrong. I have researched and studied a lot of scientific information since this began. I am not disagreeing with you on many of your statements, but that is not the point.
      My whole point was accept and respect others point of view even if you don’t agree with it. This point seems to have passed you by.
      Please stop now. It’s very stressful for floxies to engage in this sort of thing and is not what the sight is for. L has been on this sight for years, she has been to hell and back and you have really upset her to the point of her leaving the site. She has been one of the most helpful people on here to help other Floxies.
      This site is not a Corona site, there are plenty of other sites for that if you want to argue your points. This is not the place and people on this sight are here for HOPE not lectures about a completely different subject.
      I hope you understand what I’m trying to say Sheila and that can we get back to the great site Floxie Hope is and always has been until now, for the sake of all of us.

      • Sheila May 26, 2020 at 10:37 am Reply

        I think you missed my point – people can have opinions all day long but science is science. And I was explaining for others who might be on the fence about whether science is trustworthy how to tell the difference between crap and real science. I have never claimed to know everything but when I hear theories being touted as facts or fear mongering I speak up it’s not right to scare people with theories that have no proven basis. I shared some of my personal experiences so everyone would know I had and have very suspicious feelings about the medical profession from experience, sorry if you saw my personal experiences as everyone’s truth. I was agreeing with those who feel the medical field has let them down. It does and will as long as humans are alive we will be let down in one shape or form. Please don’t chastise me for also having an opinion. I too am a floxed person I am not here as someone who has not been. And the stress of hearing all this crap does bother me as you said stress is bad but lies and theories are bad to it sends us all on a wild goose chase for nothing in the end. Speaking out about what’s truth and what’s not is important. it’s not always just your opinion versus mine there are truths and facts out there find them.

      • Bob May 26, 2020 at 12:40 pm Reply

        Ditto to that.

      • Virginia May 26, 2020 at 5:40 pm Reply

        Barbara, Sheila and I have not missed your point that all opinions should be respected. We specifically discussed your point, and disagreed with it. You don’t seem to get our point, that not all opinions are valid when it comes to science. People can have different opinions about what weather they like, but they can’t disagree about the current temperature. As the saying goes, everyone has a right to their own opinion, but not their own facts. Science is not a matter of opinion, but fact, and not all opinions are equally valid. Opinions that traffic in conspiracy theories with no proven basis do not deserve respect. Sheila is not claiming to be an expert, and neither am I: We are simply asking people to heed the actual experts in the medical field: the doctors and scientists, those who have done reproducible and provable studies, not those who are sharing baseless theories. As Sheila says, it’s not right to scare people with debunked, alarmist theories, and it can badly harm public health.
        Sheila and I did not start this topic: someone else did on this site awhile ago, and others unfortunately agreed, and we see it as our duty to speak out against misinformation. I for one hate conflict, and rarely engage in any kind on any social media or health sites, but when I see damaging misinformation, I will speak out. My fear is that some reading misinformation about the virus not being severe will throw all caution to the winds and infect themselves and others. Lives depend on correct information being shared.
        I spoke up recently on a Lyme Disease site against a dangerously wrong covid theory, and there at least the moderators thanked me, backed me up, and stepped in and banned all discussion of conspiracy theories and vaccines, and now the group is back on track discussing only its intended topic. I do wish Lisa would do the same here. Once people on this site stop with the misinformation, we will stop fighting back against it. i agree that this site should not be involved with covid discussion; it’s not the forum for that. That’s what I said a few posts ago to the people who began the topic. If you want the discussion to stop, then please tell them to stop spreading false theories and don’t try to get Sheila and me to stop setting the record straight. Like Sheila, I too have been badly damaged by the medical establishment; all of us on this site have. All of us take some doctors and most pharmaceuticals with a grain of salt these days. But that doesn’t mean we should ignore everything sensible doctors and science say about every medical topic. We can’t throw out the baby with the bathwater, as the old phrase goes. I get that some people on this site have been so badly scarred by medical malpractice that they don’t trust doctors or scientists at all, but we simply can’t go to that extreme. We need to find, support and share correct, valid, scientific information.

        • Sheila May 27, 2020 at 11:34 am

          Well said and thank you for clarifying, you summed it up nicely. Thank you ❤

          I care about people A LOT and I don't ever want to see people harmed by misinformation that's what drives me.

          As others have stated I am extremely concerned about Henk and I just hope that he is taking it easy and healing up right now and getting some energy back. I hope he posts or someone who is caring for him will so we know how he is.

    • Barbara Arnold May 26, 2020 at 9:59 pm Reply

      To Sheila and Virginia,
      I am going to respectfully strongly disagree with what you both just said. I am not going to enter into any other debate on these points, because you still don’t seem to understand what I’m saying. Therefore I’m wasting my time. I do not like censorship of any kind, especially from people who set themselves up to be an unelected judge and jury of others.

    • Barbara Arnold May 27, 2020 at 2:14 am Reply

      Oh forgot to add, even though I strongly disagree with you both, I would defend your right to say it. Isn’t that in the US constitution ? Free speech and all that. That’s what I’d hoped you would do for others on here even though you disagree and have a different viewpoint.

      • Virginia May 27, 2020 at 4:56 pm Reply

        Barbara, we have got your point loud and clear: respect all opinions. But we simply disagree. You don’t seem to understand our point that not all opinions deserve respect, nor should all have a platform. I too believe in our First Amendment; thank God our nation has these protections. But even this has limits, for example it’s not allowed to falsely shout “Fire!” in a crowded theater. In the same way, conspiracy theories that undermine public health should not be given a public platform. People can say it amongst themselves as much as they want, but such misinformation should be banned on public platforms like this one, since it can do so much harm. It isn’t just Sheila and I who believe this: a long-standing Lyme Disease platform I’ve been on for years completely squashed and disallowed fake news saying that covid wasn’t a serious illness and was invented by those who want to control the world and force vaccines. Obviously the moderators of that group agreed with me that such misinformation is very dangerous: those who naively believe it will refuse to protect themselves and others from this very dangerous virus and deaths can result. Many other platforms too are censoring dangerous covid misinformation; it’s the right thing to do when untruths are being spread and lives are at stake.

      • Barbara Arnold May 27, 2020 at 11:38 pm Reply

        Virginia and Sheila,
        Thankyou for clarifying you got my message ‘loud and clear’ about accepting and respecting other peoples points of view, and that you disagree with accepting and respecting other peoples points of view.
        I couldn’t fail to get your message as you have both repeated it a number of times, even though this is not the right platform for your covid19 views.
        As I understand it, you both feel it’s your duty to shut down any one that has another opinion or point of view, because somehow you think it will cost ‘thousands of live’s, and some points of view or opinions don’t deserve respect.

        Now can you both please drop this sunbject and get back to what this sight was created for, which to remind you both, was for people damaged by fluroquinolones and to offer help and hope where we can.

        • Sheila May 28, 2020 at 9:09 am

          Barbara you are totally misrepresenting everything we have said. Everyone has an opinion but false information that cannot be backed up by science should not be allowed to be shared when lives are on the line and people will die if they listen to that misinformation. Opinions are NOT science. We all have opinions but science is science. Respecting people’s opinions does not mean that if you are quoting information as fact that is not fact and cannot be backed up – it should not be called out for what it is, to protect lives! saying that because we feel the need to call out falsehoods means we don’t respect opinions is wrong. But if I sit here and tell you guys that like trump said ‘drink Lysol, shoot up disinfectants” as something that should be done (which people did and died) if we said that I would hope that someone would tell us that was not allowed – it’s not disrespecting an opinion what it is saying is this is false dangerous information please don’t do this. That kind of “opinion” is dangerous plain and simple. I would hope no one on this group would sit idly by while dangerous opinions are being shared as something worth trying.
          You have totally misunderstood the whole concept of proper dialogue for that I am sorry. But right now we have to have proper correct backed up by science information otherwise people die, that’s all that matters is that people DON”T die. Please understand that.

          As for covid not being a topic here it should be we all have to worry about what the meds are that may be touted as a remedy for covid, we need to be concerned about the vaccines and what and how that might affect us that have been floxed it is very much a topic of concern. But lies and misinformation should not be allowed – lives are depending on it. People are grasping for anything and everything to stay alive and knowing that people who know not to ingest disinfectants actually did so because someone they looked up to told them to do it.

          Like wearing masks for protection – that used to be a so called opinion in the beginning and the only reason it was an opinion was to keep the PPE available for medical staff, once the supply was refiled it has now become fact that wearing masks lessens the infection rate and that everyone should wear one. So what was touted as opinion really was a misnomer, cause wearing masks was always a deterrent to the virus but in order to protect the medical staff we were told masks were not necessary – now it’s taking an act of god to convince people that YES masks are needed and should have been worn all along, people are even being shot and killed for telling people to wear a mask. So you see where a misleading statement can become the ONLY statement people will latch onto, that why it’s imperative to stop lies and conspiracy theories the second they start so they don’t get imbedded as fact in people’s minds. Maybe there are those that look to this group for all their medical information and will try some of the treatments that have yet to be backed up by science. There is a responsibility for factual information not just opinions if it is an opinion it needs to be prefaced as this is solely my opinion or this is a scientific based study etc. but if that opinion is so blatantly false as to endanger people even that opinion needs to be called out.

          I am amazed at the lack of understanding about opinions versus fact, lies versus fact, conspiracy versus fact, there should be no question which is which.

        • Virginia May 28, 2020 at 9:13 pm

          Barbara, if you’re so impatient with Sheila and me, you can simply stop replying. You said a few posts ago that you would stop debating, but you haven’t. We’re impatient with you too, and find you just as argumentative. Ideally, the moderator should be the one to step in to try to stop misinformation, but since she didn’t, Sheila and I took it upon ourselves to do so, realizing lives might be at stake. We have not insulted anyone, just criticized certain viewpoints. Criticizing a person’s views isn’t the same as insulting them personally. As Sheila said, we’re concerned about others’ safety. Some might indeed turn to this site for medical information, and we feel we must counter any misinformation they may find here. We haven’t “driven” anyone off the site! We’ve not asked anyone to leave, just to stop sharing dangerous misinformation. L left of her own accord, and she’s done it before when talk got heated. We will drop this subject when others do or when Lisa shuts down the discussion: not before.

      • Barbara Arnold May 28, 2020 at 10:01 am Reply

        Dear Lord above,

        I have tried my hardest to be patient with you both, but I am now coming to the end of my tether. I find you both extremely patronising, insulting, and argumenative in the extreme. I really don’t know who appointed you both as the worlds experts on how to protect oneself and what we should and shouldn’t do.

        It may have escaped your notice but I have not argued with any of your points, but you both seem to think you are the only ones with this information.

        You have been extremely insulting to me and others on here, saying …you are amazed at the lack of understanding about opinions versus fact, lies versus fact, conspiracy versus fact.

        Did you listen to the podcast I posted ??? Probably not. It was by Doctors, scientists, virologist and a Nobel prize winner.

        You are not the only ones that research and find ‘scientific facts’ as you constantly harp on about.

        Who appointed you as ‘The Conspiracy Police’ ???? Not me, or anyone else on this site as far as I know, and there are many things that constitute a conspiracy. There are ‘conspiracies that have proven true. You are using this wonderful site to admonish and dictate to others how they should think and what they should say and feel, because you think you and you alone are right and everyone else should listen to you as you have all the answers from ‘science’, yet you havn’t listened to the ‘science I posted. If you had you will of found that some of your ideas are out of date. Up to now I couldn’t be bothered to rant back at you, as you have done to me and others continually.

        You are amazed ??? I am amazed how you have driven people off this site who have been here a lot longer than you and have helped so many with fluroquinolone damage. I am amazed at the arrogance of two people who think they know better than anyone else.

        I have constantly, politely asked you both to drop it, and to get back to what this site was designed for. You have both ignored that and continued to argue, argue, argue. In my opinion you have brought this site down to suit your own agendas.

        I’m done with both of you now, and if you continue patronising, and argueing, and spouting and lecturing the rest of us I will also leave this site.
        So well done, that’s three of us so far that you have driven to distraction and upset.
        This is my very last word on the subject.

        • Sheila May 28, 2020 at 2:43 pm

          I too have been floxed, I too am ill with the results, but I also know that because of that anything that is pushed to the market for us to take for the covid will affect us in some way, I am worried and we should talk about it here so covid is a topic we should discuss in my opinion.

          And I have always stated how much I care about people and how much I worry about the safety of others and sometimes when I see stuff I speak out cause I know it is not accurate. But I always tell everyone here how much I care. I seriously doubt anyone has left this site because of virginia or me, that’s an unfair attack. I have been here for several years. I am not new. I have not seen anyone disappear because of my posts. And if you check my posts you will see I ask questions I share my experiences, I discuss my reactions etc. to drugs and so forth. I don’t believe either of us deserve your personal attacks on us as people. We attacked the topics not you personally I regret that you see it otherwise. No one as we stated is saying we know everything never ever said that only you said that not us.

          Again, I care about people I don’t know how many times I have to say that but I do – seems like no one cares that someone else worries whether they get facts or opinions.

          As a person who has had ingested 3 years of cipro with results that I deal with daily I will want to discuss covid drugs and/or vaccines with other floxed people do let me do that without attacking me please. Thank you.

  38. Bob May 23, 2020 at 10:15 am Reply

    Well said. It all depends on whose “science`You want to believe since science is bought and paid for by people who already know the result they want.

  39. Larry May 23, 2020 at 10:56 am Reply

    Eye Floater update. No this procedure does not remove the fluid in you eyes. The fluid removal is an old treatment for floaters. Check out Austin eye in Austin TX. They use the yag laser to burn out the floater and it’s minimal risk. Per the FDA as well risk is very low. My eye heath looked good after the levaquin crap, but I will put of the procedure for a while. I need to get my yearly eye exam and I want my body to recover more.

  40. Madge Hirsch May 23, 2020 at 11:03 am Reply

    Hi Barbara- not being on Facebook I don’t know what this is about. How are you doing now your lockdown has been relaxed? I have been out finally – two bike rides and a trip to Carrefour and Castorama ( masked and gloved) . I have tried to get an appointment with the surgeon for my hip replacement but been told nothing doing – no appointments before July. The pain is so bad now I am unable to walk far so pretty restricted. I have also been going through a bad relapse and am pretty pissed off as I will be five years out in July.
    There has been some research coming out of the Phillipines and Indonesia that correlate vit D levels with the severity of covid infection. They show very clearly that the lower your vit D the worse the outcome. Those with vit D above 30ng/l had very few instances of serious cases or death. Stats from other countries are also showing that the death rates in the Southern Hemisphere where the virus struck at the end of summer when vit D rates are at their highest are much lower than those in the Northern hemisphere. The University hospital at Angers is now doing clinical trial comparing bolus dosing of 400,000iu and 50,000iu of vit D in covid patients. If this is successful it would be a game changer as vit D is safe and cheap. Meanwhile why governments can’t advise their citizens to take it to up their immune systems anyway is beyond me. Pharma will want to pooh pooh this as much as possible as there is no dosh in it for them.

    • Barbara Arnold May 25, 2020 at 12:09 am Reply

      Hi Madge,
      I’m really sorry to hear your in so much pain still. I think it’s outrageous when hospitals are apparently empty and so many people waiting to see specialists and suffering. You would think there were no other ailments apart from Covid19. My husbands yearly review for cancer was cancelled, no scan yet for all clear confirmation, a damaged vertabrae in his neck causing him problems cancelled appointment, my review for cataracts cancelled. God knows when we will get new appointments. People like you in a ton of pain, still waiting.
      We are about to go into phase 2 here, at the moment, cafes are open, but only terraces. You can travel but only in your province, the rules not really clear there. Masks are mandatory, but people sitting on terraces without social distancing not wearing them, which sort of makes a mockery of the ones that do wear them.
      People on this site arguing they are right and only their opinion matters, because of science, when there are so many different scientific opinions. People expressing a view, and being accused of being conspiracy theorists because others seem to know better and only their view counts. In my opinion everyone has the right to express their opinion without being shut down just because others don’t agree.
      As I’ve said before, accept and respect others opinions even if you don’t agree with them. The reason I mentioned Facebook was because a lot of people on Facebook are arguing with each other insisting they are right if they don’t agree with the poster, and quoting science, which is ridiculous because the science is changing all the time as we get to know more about this virus. I’m going to try and post a link from the latest science from Doctors, scientists, virologist and Nobel Prize winners, again I’m sure there are other scientists who may not agree with these people, but that’s not the point. Everyone and I mean everyone on all sides should be allowed to have a voice, without being shot down like on Facebook.
      This site is not here for that, it’s for others to come for Hope as I’ve said before. I really hope you get some help soon Madge.

      • Madge Hirsch May 25, 2020 at 1:20 pm Reply

        Thanks Barbara- my GP has given me some paracetamol with opium powder but I do not want to take them everyday even though they are quite good at numbing the pain. The relapse is maybe getting slightly better. I get very weepy and depressed in relapses and suffer a bit of brain fog as well as the physical stuff. We were trying to do the tax return online and I threw a complete wobbly. My husband can do it no probs but I am trying to learn because one day I might have to do it myself! Though he is far more robust than I am despite being 8 years older- he hasn’t been floxed. Our best friends have just come back from UK. They had gone back to visit family and then got trapped by the lockdowns. We are hoping they are going to open restaurants soon . There are about 350 confirmed cases in our department so I reckon they could ease up in areas like ours. Hope you manage to get the appointments you need soon.
        I have been following the covid stuff and the controversy. I don’t believe it’s a conspiracy to have us all vaccinated but I do believe from what I have read that the virus came out of one of the Wuhan labs- probably by accident. These Biosafety labs all over the world have a long history of leaks and the gain of function work on viruses tha t has been going on in them is very dangerous.

      • Sheila May 25, 2020 at 1:25 pm Reply

        yes there are opinions galore about this virus and what should be done but then there is reputable science – reputable meaning that there are more than 3-5 sources for the information that have a history of being dependable and reliable sources science relies on consistent verifiable information, studies that can be replicated with the same outcome – that’s science. When there is little doubt that the outcome will be what it has been in all the studies. When we say trust science that is what we are referring to. Yes you can find a different/alternative “facts” if you choose random or little known sources – where’s their data? where’s their study? can the study be replicated by others? there are no alternative facts in science it either is or isn’t. Are we learning more every day about this virus yes we are since it is new every day gives us a new chance to get more information to include in the studies and tests.
        Everyone can have an opinion – but science is science – stats that don’t change with the same study over and over are facts. Until new information is added to the equation.

        As for Gates and vaccines being population control – what I saw and heard is not what is being said. The words proper use of healthcare and reproductive care will result in lower birth rates by CHOICE. No one is pulling a china one child theory that I’ve heard of. And yes the earth had reached a point of unsustainability with the population load and numbers people which gates is, will immediately see the numbers of people versus the number of finite resources and see it either is sustainable or not, the fact he brings that up doesn’t mean he’s for sterilizing anyone, or using vaccines to do so. That’s just reaching into the abyss for something that feeds fear. Reproductive care should result in children only when people want them that would lessen the population he’s stating a truth. Now that we have lost so many people due to this pandemic the studies may change about sustainability of the population currently.

        No one is saying you can’t have an opinion but I am saying that science is a provable subject with a proper result that can be duplicated, replicated and proven beyond doubt. And we have those sources available right now and they are being tossed aside for one trick pony sources that can’t or won’t share their studies or have their studies replicated or god forbid never did a study but are sharing opinions as fact.

        As for death tolls they are under reported – states and countries are not reporting people who died at home – they are not having autopsies to show cause of death; nursing home stats in the USA are not included in death tolls states are just now looking at whether to include them I believe NY is the only state right now to actually include them; other respiratory deaths before December of 2019 could have been covid19; so yes the death toll is higher than is being reported.
        The contagiousness of this virus makes it the deadly force it is; the flu does not attack the vascular system, flu does not attack the lungs and leave permanent damage of 20-30% function loss; flu does not cause kidney failure, liver failure, heart failure, blood clots, and eventually organ failure throughout the body leading to death. This is NOT the flu. In less than 3 months 100,000 people have died the flu kills every year but not in these numbers in this time frame – the flu numbers are for a total of 12 months, and because the flu is spread out over a full year it does not overwhelm the hospital meaning that docs & nurses have access to proper PPE and can maintain proper care of patients, this covid19 overwhelms the hospitals causing PPE to run out, beds to run out, quarantine areas in the hospital so those most vulnerable already in the hospital do not die from it, people dying without family, dying in the floors of some hospitals waiting on a bed or ventilator to breathe for them. It is NOT the flu.

        Wear your masks it’s not taking rights away to be told to stay home for health reasons, that IS the job of government to allow the CDC and other institutions to tell us when our lives are at risk and what to do to protect our life including staying at home for periods of time to stay alive it is not taking your individual rights away. Think back to WWII and “lights out” so we don’t die from bombing attacks you think it would be ok to turn the lights on cause that infringes on your right to read a book? This me me me attitude needs a serious make over we in the USA and other countries survived war time due to people doing the right thing for everyone involved and this is the same – do the right thing – wear your mask and wear it properly – OVER the nose pinched at the bridge of the nose, pulled down over and under the chin…….

        Stats show if EVERYONE wore a mask the infection rate would be 1.5% and the virus could die out naturally – so wear the mask and encourage other to do the same if we truly want to kill off this virus it will take everyone doing the right thing.

      • Virginia May 25, 2020 at 6:23 pm Reply

        Barbara, I don’t believe that there is a big divergence in reputable scientific opinion about the coronavirus. There’s lots of misinformation about there, but respected scientists and medical professionals agree on the basics; this consensus is of course periodically updated as new information emerges about the virus. Science is a fact, not an opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. It’s OK to have different opinions about things like politics, but not about verifiable fact. As Sheila says, medical studies that can be duplicated and have evidence behind them are science; these are real facts, not “alternative facts.” There is a war on science going on in some quarters, including by some on this site, and that isn’t just a different opinion: it’s dangerous misinformation which can get people killed. Those on this site saying that the virus is over-hyped are a danger to public health. Those who believe them may not take proper precautions and can wind up dead, with lingering symptoms, or kill someone else whom they infect. All opinions don’t need to be respected: some opinions are downright dangerous, and have no place on this health forum which is trying to save lives and restore people to health.

        • Sheila May 25, 2020 at 6:53 pm

          well said. The lucky ones will have no symptoms or very little – the other ones die.

          To other posts: The misinformation is that it’s like the flu, those that have had it and had no idea will preach that it’s just like the flu, those that have had it and had all the symptoms will preach how vicious and deadly it is. So it’s usually smart to err on the side of safety rather than assuming it will be like the flu just cause one or two people can attest to nothing more – safety first, don’t cause others to die cause you didn’t get violently ill, cause that other person may die cause you decided it was nothing and refused to take precautions. And death rates – I am not sure how the WHO decides their current numbers but I do know that CDC has separated all the deaths so they themselves know how many died from Covid19 it helps them with their own stats to determine the projected path and temper of the virus.
          In response to other posts: I don’t know of any medical stat reporting firm that is keeping car accidents and other deaths lumped in with covid19 – it would not serve any purpose to prevent the separation of deaths, we have a worldwide deadly disease everyone is trying to find a solution to and you don’t get a solution by not separating out the number of deaths from the disease they are trying to cure. That would be like saying you’re going to decide how many red gumballs are in a huge gumball machine without separating out the red ones from the rest.

          I get the distrust of the medical profession I truly do, I have been almost killed by some of the “newest” and “greatest” treatments and was almost killed by the live virus measles vaccine but I also know that without medical treatments I would be dead. I am a leg amputee and hemorrhaged for 13 hours called DIC very few survive it and without intervention in ICU I would have died. Without the proper pre-surgery care I would have died IN surgery. I have a healthy distrust of the profession but I also have great critical thinking ability and research everything before making a decision – proper information is knowledge that helps make informed decisions.

          I think vaccines are great depending on what it’s for and why and the proofs behind it. As I stated before ALL protocols allow for those people who can be exempt from vaccines to be exempted from having to take it, no one is going to stick someone in a corral shoot and force you against your will to get a vaccine it just won’t happen. If nothing else the ACLU will step in before that happens. But the fear that someone is going to stick something in the vaccine and sterilize people for population control or mislead people into thinking they are getting a vaccine for this but it’s really for some other purpose. That won’t happen in the USA at least not now it did in the 60’s but that was 60 years ago. It’s like abortion – keep it legal and safe and those that want it or need it – it’s there – for the rest of the population ignore it go your own way but don’t make it impossible for those who need it or want it.

          And all those that don’t even want a vaccine created – then do your part and wear the masks every time you go out and help the virus to die out naturally so we won’t need a vaccine, like SARS they stopped searching for a vaccine when the virus died off naturally – there was no need for the vaccine and it stopped. Of course had they continued we might be able to already have a vaccine for this since it is a SARS virus. But just wear the masks and do your part to a part of the solution. For me personally I would rather know that I wore a mask and messed up my make up or my hair and stayed alive and kept my neighbors alive than to think I rebelled, which no one is watching and making a note that you rebelled only you will know, but rebellion may kill your neighbor or a stranger – which side do you want to be on – mask and everyone safe – no mask and you may kill someone because you decided it wasn’t worth it – it is worth it to that other person.
          I don’t even walk out my door without a mask on cause sometimes my neighbor walks by and stops to speak and he is in his 70’s and is battling leukemia – if I had not put on the mask just to go to my mailbox I could infect him and kill him. I keep masks at each door to the outside of my home. It’s a small small thing to keep everyone safe and alive.

    • Barbara Arnold May 26, 2020 at 3:23 am Reply

      Hi Madge,
      Yeah I get what you mean about taking paracetamol with opium powder, it must be really hard for you. If I get a lot of pain I take Kratom, I to only take it if I really need it. One of the reasons is I don’t want to become intolerant to it. It’s not an opiate it’s a herb, but it’s attracted to pain receptors so ‘acts like an opiate. I thoroughly researched it as it had some bad press. I found it was the usual culprits trying to get it banned in the US..IE Big Bloody Pharma again. There’s a huge organisation there fighting Big Pharma through the courts. I hope they win. I get mine from the Netherlands, and its legal to buy in Europe, thank goodness.
      I feel for you Madge getting weepy and upset over trying to do your tax on line. Like you my husband does it, but we have a good solicitor (abagado) who finnishes it off.
      It’s quite frightening to think you’d have to cope alone. Ive thought about this a lot after my husband got Cancer. Those were really dark days, but we came through. He does manage all our finances as well, so I made him give me a print out of everything and who he deals with, which gives some form of comfort.
      I find myself getting weepy a lot lately to, I think with everything that’s happened in our world, and an uncertain future and negative MSM sensationalising, spreading doom and gloom, it’s no wonder we get weepy. So your not alone Madge.
      I really feel for young people, losing their education, and have an unknown future, but my young grandson make me shed a tear when he said, “It’s sad Nana, but we’ll pull through” I ‘m sure we will to, just like all adversity, we will survive this, even though things will be different.
      We are going into phase 2 next Monday, meaning restaurants will be open inside as will cafes and bars. Beaches and shops open, being able to travel a bit further etc.
      We are going to carry on doing what we’ve always done since this began, taking the usual precautions. I ‘m waiting to see what happens in the coming weeks, before we venture to far.
      I agree with you about the bio lab in Wuhan, but I doubt we will ever know the truth.
      Stay strong Madge, have a weep and a wobbly if you need to, it’s good to get it out and quite normal. It’s good therapy, then take some deep breaths and carry on.

  41. Larry May 23, 2020 at 11:04 am Reply

    This is from Austin eyes website.

    During the procedure the laser emits a short and small burst of energy at a potent power density. This energy converts the collagen and hyaluronic molecules found in a floater into a gas, which is then resorbed into the eye. On average, most patients can expect a 60% to 90% improvement in the mass and/or amount of floaters.It is important to note that modern laser vitreolysis is a different procedure. Compared to its early clinical use in the 1980s, modern laser vitreolysis provides more efficient and safer energy profiles — offering reliable and repeatable outcomes that provide a low rate of complications, combined with a high degree of patient satisfaction.

  42. Larry May 23, 2020 at 11:12 am Reply

    Pre levaquin I had a lot of floaters. I’ve actually had them since I was a kid. My mom has them so I think it’s part of my inheritance 😂😂. But yeah levaquin made them really really bad. Some days I get a rainbow colored one when I’m driving and I’m afraid I’m going to drive off the road so I have to close my right eye. It’s all so damn ridiculous. So eye floater and full body nerve damage. Thanks levaquin. Thanks so much.

  43. Barbara Arnold May 25, 2020 at 12:16 am Reply


    This is a long podcast, but it’s some of the latest science for those of you that like to quote science. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. We are all adults and we can make up our own minds. Can we please just accept others points of view without trying to shut them down because we may not agree.

  44. Andrea May 25, 2020 at 11:08 am Reply

    as someone else suggested, is there a way for you to contact Henk Noordhuizen? I don’t know, maybe sending him a direct e mail…He hasn’t posted in a while now, but he was a regular here. He’s in a very, bad and serious situation, and me and others are worried about him…Please let us know if you could find out something. Thank you.

    • Andrea S. May 26, 2020 at 1:38 pm Reply

      I’ve been very worried about Henk and am afraid for the worst. He was the first to come to my assistance when I first came here. I have had him in my thoughts daily. I really hope he is doing ok.

      • Andrea May 26, 2020 at 3:22 pm Reply

        I don’t know what to say Andrea. Let’s hope for the best…

        • Andrea S. May 26, 2020 at 9:31 pm

          I hope he comes back to post. 😦

        • Virginia May 26, 2020 at 9:48 pm

          Andrea, it’s good of you to reach out repeatedly to Henk. I too think of him a lot and fear for the worst. If he were in any kind of shape, he’d be updating us here.

      • Barbara Arnold May 26, 2020 at 10:23 pm Reply

        Andrea S and Andrea,
        I have e mailed Lisa about Henk, to see if there is anything she can do. I thought she should know.
        I also thought she should know how FH is straying from what it was designed to do, maybe we can get some answers on this now.

        • Andrea May 27, 2020 at 10:27 am

          Thanks Barbara, but here’s the thing : I belive Lisa has the same chanches that we have of an answer from him…from what I remember Henk had the email notification from Floxie Hope everytime a message was posted, so not much difference from sendind him a direct e mail. Oh well, it’s still worth a shot…

    • Lisa May 27, 2020 at 6:49 pm Reply

      I emailed Henk letting him know that we care about him and hope that he is doing as well as possible. I told him that he is loved and appreciated. I’ll let you know if I hear back from him.

  45. Orf May 25, 2020 at 2:19 pm Reply


    “A new report reveals that Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Pharmaceuticals subsidiary quietly ceased production of Levaquin late last year, ahead of new label warnings recently required by federal regulators about potential mental health side effects linked to the controversial antibiotic.

    In what was effectively a silent Levaquin recall, RTV6 in Indiana reports that the drug maker discontinued production of both the oral and IV name-brand versions of Levaquin in December 2017, without any apparent public announcement about the decision.”””

    My God, how evil are the people who are Rx and making this poison evil drug!!!!

    I just can’t believe it….

    • Don M May 26, 2020 at 8:12 am Reply

      Orf……. “According to the FDA, doctors should stop treatment with Levaquin, Avelox and similar drugs immediately if patients report experiencing central nervous system side effects, psychiatric adverse reactions, or blood glucose problems”.
      “When side effects are reported”. It’s to damn late then. The person who received the drugs has already been screwed.
      So they stopped making it. There is still months and maybe even years of it on the shelves. No supplier wants to get stuck with thousands of $$$$ worth of drugs. To think that they will stop shipping it is ludicrous. As I understand it the generic companies can still make the drug and distribute it.
      Bottom line……… It is up to the individual to be informed and not accept the drug.

  46. Andrea May 27, 2020 at 10:40 am Reply

    Hey guys, today I went to the gastroenterologist to do the colonscopy. I did it without sedatives, everything went fine. My intestines are ok. And it’s not much of a good news anyway…like it always happened from the tests and screening I’ve done in the last 3 and a half years, everything SEEM fine, no noticiable damage or anyhing. But I still suffer though…that’s the tricky part of being a floxie!
    Anyway, he gave a product, called here in Italy ColonLife, it’s basically Butyric acid and a mix of probiotics.
    According to the label : “it promotes anti-inflammatory and reparative activity, is the primary energy substrate for the growth of the mucous membrane of the colon, stimulates the production of mucus inside the colon, controls intraluminal homeostasis, promotes the absorption of water and electrolytes, intervenes in promoting the adhesiveness and development of bacterial flora”, sure, everything seem really cool, but do any of you ever tried it? Thanks a lot.

    • Andrea May 27, 2020 at 10:51 am Reply

      I mean, do any of you ever tried B. acid?

  47. A.Coleman May 27, 2020 at 2:10 pm Reply


    I am so much in the same boat. Had colonoscopy and endoscopy a few years ago after floxing and they found everything was “normal”. How typical for a floxie. I know it isn’t normal. Most of the issues are nerve related I think. I have battled digestive issues as one of my three major floxie issues.

    I started with gastroparesis that went on to weird heartburn (only when I burped, and I burped like 300 times a day) then nausea and stomach pain. Everything is slowly getting better. I have only a very little heartburn and nausea now. Anticipate at my current pace my digestion will be back to normal in 6 to 9 months.

    I have tried LOTS of stuff; aloe, acupuncture, various herbs and teas. Never tried the ColonLife product. I have used a similar product, Iberogast. Iberogast is a mixture of extracts from bitter candytuft (Iberis amara), angelica root (Angelicae radix), milk thistle fruit (Silybi mariani fructus), celandine herb (Chelidonium majus), caraway fruit (Carvi fructus), liquorice root (Liquiritiae radix), peppermint herb (Menthae piperitae folium), balm leaf (Melissae folium) and chamomile flower (Matricariae flos)

    This has worked pretty well to calm the irritation in my stomach / intestines. It basically can take the issues from a 10 to an 8 or a 4 to a 2. It does contain liquorice so should be avoided by those with high BP and only taken for 4 weeks at a time. A quick search of ColonLife says it is for IBS, which is one of the uses of Iberogast. No overlap in products though.

    I think that your digestive problems are probably nerve related due to FQ damage; but some of these products can help the nerve problems and make you feel marginally better. Like many other floxie issues I think time is all that will truly make any difference and the amount of time it takes varies for all of us.

    • Andrea May 28, 2020 at 2:36 pm Reply

      Thank A. Coleman.
      You’ve mentioned nerve damage, which I totally agree with you, but the weird thing, is that I’ve also done some investigation on my nerves: on my legs, in the lumbar region and so on, in a neurologist office. Never showed anything, actually he even said that my pudendal nerve was in a optimal status! I’ve even done a brain scan, which showed nothing wrong. That’s where floxie symtpoms gets very fuzzy. All this pain, all this weird feeling we experience, and, most of the times, nothing shows up…
      In my case, as I mentioned many times now, the G.I problems started 2 years post flox, after I took a probiotic mix, which contained Saccaromyces Boulardii, that’s a yeast with powerfoul antidhiarreal properties. My digestion has never been the same since. But my colon is perfectly fine, according to the colonscopy. It’s almost like, when something bad happens to our body, it’s not hable to heal itself.

  48. Attila May 28, 2020 at 3:23 am Reply

    Hello. Im post flox 2,5years. Now i have acid reflux and my doc gave me pantoprazole. Is it safe? Any issues? Thank you.

    • Don M May 28, 2020 at 5:56 am Reply

      Attila…………. https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/pantoprazole-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20071434
      Everyone is different. You must decide for yourself after research and looking at the possible side effects you might encounter with this medication.

    • Sheila May 28, 2020 at 9:22 am Reply

      I never had acid reflux until 3 years of cipro and now it’s an ongoing issue, I have dropped just a few pounds and found relief but keeping 10 pounds off/on is hard, don’t know what your weight might be but just 5-10 pounds can help. I have issues now with my throat and strictures and so forth so I advise to do something as quickly as possible so you don’t have other issues later on. I didn’t even know I had acid reflux until a friend asked why I was clearing my throat so frequently so off to the ear, nose, throat doctor and low and behold acid damage to my throat he called it “silent reflux”. I have found that eating packaged foods sets mine off like boxed mac/cheese, instant potatoes etc. but fresh cooked potatoes, or homemade mac/cheese doesn’t, also grease sets mine off if I eat pizza that has greasy pepperoni or if I eat buttered bread it will start up. Keep a diary of when you get the reflux and what you ate 36 hours before and see if you can figure out if food is a trigger or not. I know if I eat chocolate ice cream after mine starts up it will settle down and I can sleep so for some chocolate is a trigger for me it’s a relief, it could be whether it’s milk chocolate versus dark but for me it doesn’t matter it all helps me except the cacao level if it’s 60% or above it will set off the reflux. See if that helps. Good luck. Keep us posted.

    • Virginia May 28, 2020 at 9:18 pm Reply

      Hi Attila, I think proton pump inhibitors, like the one given to you, are not good for long-term use. Over time, they can decrease bone density and possibly make stomachs more susceptible to parasites since they decrease the stomach acid which would normally kill them off. There are other side effects to these PPIs. I agree with others that it’s best to find out the reason for the reflux and try to eliminate that. For example, I noticed that eating dairy and lying on my stomach after a meal can increase my reflux. You can experiment with your triggers. Reflux must definitely be treated though, since untreated it can lead to esophagus cancer down the road.

    • Önder Ali August 14, 2020 at 4:49 pm Reply

      Attila selam
      Türksun sanırım. Bana whatsapptan ulaşır mısın lutfen? +905397137751

  49. Don M May 28, 2020 at 6:01 am Reply

    Attila… https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pantoprazole&t=crhs&ia=web You can start by looking at the different web sites here.
    duckduckgo is a search engine that claims it does not track your searches.

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