Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

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25,827 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Andrea September 2, 2020 at 10:35 am Reply

    Hello guys, how’re you doing? I hope well.
    I was thinking about soemthing I wanted to share with you : since all of us have been affected and damaged by FQs, but each one to a different extent, and there’re many different kinds of FQs, I’d like to understand if there’s one or more of them more dangerous than the others. Of course all FQs are terrible and potentially lethal, but is, for example, Cipro worse than Avelox or Avelox worse than Levaquin? and so on…It would be interseting to understand this subtle difference. In mu case, I was permanently damaged by Prulifloxacin.

  2. Jim September 3, 2020 at 5:47 am Reply

    This is an interesting question, the most prescribed FQs are Cipro and Levaquin, however the doses are not directly comparable as approx. 1000mg of Cipro = 750mg of Levaquin. I recall reading (might be the flox report) that Levaquin has approx. 2 x the therapeutic value of Cipro, therefore on this basis Levaquin for a comparable prescription might have more potential for adverse effects

    • Don M September 3, 2020 at 10:40 am Reply

      It is my understanding that Leviqiun is a revved up and remade version of Ofloxacin. The basic formula for Ofloxacin was used and to it were added 2 of the fluoride molecules where it originally had only one. It is said that the reason for doubling the fluoride was to make the antibiotic more effective against both gram positive and gram negative pathogens. Because of the amount of fluoride Leviquin contains I would say it is probably at the top of the list when it comes to the nasty side/after effects. So many of them have been either never allowed to come to market or were removed when they found how toxic they were.

      • CAWS September 5, 2020 at 2:54 pm Reply

        If you type in chemistry of: Cipro & Levaquin you will see that both had only ONE molecule of F in the 6th position. Levaquin is no longer on the market and probably caused so much more damage because it was “vitamin L ” used IV at every hospital in USA for decades. They bought it in bulk and charged insurance top dollar and it killed pretty much everything including your life. I have had Cipro oral 4 times, Levaquin IV & oral and Gemifloxin finished me off. No connection made because there were no warnings. Thought I was losing my mind. By the time it [brand name Factive 7] came on market they had MOVED the F to the 8th position which caused more side effects mostly related to hallucinations, light sensitivity and severe skin rashes. I had them all . I turned PURPLE from head to toe [no warnings of any kind] FOR THIRTY DAYS! Neuropathy became so bad I could no longer ride my competition horses nor could I sleep. Tendon pain & gut disbosis, and losing many teeth from periodontal ligaments dying too. This all happened THIRTY years ago; the good news is I am still here; still fighting; but it ain’t been easy.
        Stay vigilant though; even though 22 of the 29 FQs have been discontinued they have at least 5-6 new ones [with F in 8th position] coming to market. Hint the only thing that relieves my pain without narcotics is Kratom [buy online less that $1 a day] and Black Bear Hydroxy b-12 keeps PN and plantar fascitis at bay. I try to get as much Mg in me as I can too. Epsom salt baths & oil help leg pain.
        85% of anesthesia is high dose fluorine so if you need surgery ask for propofol. For longer surgeries they can use titration pump. Versed [benzodiazapene with F] alone has 91 ppm of F which is 23X MDC that EPA allows. Good luck clearing that if you are older or damaged.

        • Don M September 6, 2020 at 6:30 am

          Caws………. Thanks. It is information like this that is needed by the floxie community. Just speaking basically Levaquin is a revved up version of Ofloxacin. Levofloxacin is a potentially toxic compound. You damned sure won’t hear a doctor explaining it to you.

        • Andrea September 6, 2020 at 3:17 pm

          Thnaks CAWS. Can you explain to me what 6th and 8th position mean?

          About Benzodiazepines, A few weeks ago, I was prescribed Clonazepam, for my chronic pelvic pain. It helped a little with the pain, but since the first dosage, I wasn’t feeling good overall. Always tired, which is kinda weird if you think about it, I could sleep a little more, but the next morning I was more tired than usual. Then I felt depressed, nervous…I also noticed that, as I was expecting, after a little, the prescribed dosage, wasn’t working anymore, and if I wanted it to keep working, I should keep increasing the dosage. After 2 weeks I gave it up. I didn’t want to become a junkie. It was about 2 weeks ago since i discontinued the treatment, and after a couple of days of feeling not so well, I started to feel better again.
          Tomorrow I have an appointment, with another doctor, to talk about medical cannabis. She will probably prescribe it to me. Let’s see if it helps.

  3. Andrea September 4, 2020 at 4:19 pm Reply

    Thanks Jim and Don…yeah, I too remember someone here on Floxie Hope, saying something about Levaquin being the nastiest of the bunch…

  4. Tricia September 14, 2020 at 6:04 pm Reply

    Hello All…
    Has anyone had an adverse reaction to Famotidine…(Pepcid)? I took it a few days ago and it flared my joint pain considerably:(

  5. Faisal Alkhaldi September 17, 2020 at 11:59 pm Reply

    Hello all,

    help me. I’m Flux 4 years ago, I took one pill from Avalux and suffered from severe palpitations for the first year, and now I suffer from 171 beats of palpitations of my heart. Are there solutions? Do I have a heart condition or panic? Do panic my heart rate today 171?

    Pank attack or somthing wrong ?

    Any help 😦

  6. Faisal Alkhaldi September 18, 2020 at 12:00 am Reply

    Hello all,

    help me. I’m Flux 4 years ago, I took one pill from Avalux and suffered from severe palpitations for the first year, and now I suffer from 171 beats of palpitations of my heart. Are there solutions? Do I have a heart condition or panic? Do panic my heart rate today 171?

    Is the problem Neuropathy when standing up my heart beat frightening and pain in the nerves of the limbs

    Pank attack or somthing wrong ?

    Any help 😦

    • selcem September 18, 2020 at 2:47 am Reply

      Hello Faisal,

      have you undergo through any medical tests and diagnosis? I was severely floxed also, but if medical tests do not show a clear problem, I try to reduce anxiety myself without medical drugs and continue with supplementing body and clean eating. Because putting ourselves in idea of being floxed always, makes our bodies more stressed.
      For anxiety, I can recommend magnesium, a good brand “Intelligent Labs”. I stopped caffeine, tea, not smoking, not taking alcohol, no fast food, no sugar, no gluten. I have seen positive results from this diet also.


    • Don M September 18, 2020 at 7:12 am Reply

      Faisal Alkhaldi……….. I agree with Selecem on all the things mentioned and especially the need for magnesium. Do your research on magnesium and you will find that it contributes to over 300 of the body’s functions. It is also seriously depleted by Fluoroquinolone antibiotics. Fluoroquinolines are very hard on the body’s stores of magnesium. Magnesium is a relaxant and it helps all the muscles of the body to relax. Including the heart. It is widely said that because magnesium has been depleted from the soil that nearly everyone (who does not supplement with magnesium) is deficient in magnesium. Bottom line…….. Magnesium is VERY important to balancing out the body.

      Dr. Carolyn Dean is one who has spent much of her professional career on magnesium. The web site https://drcarolyndean.com/start-here/

      Re pain in the limbs. Topical application of Magnesium Oil will definitely relax the muscles which in turn mitigates the pain. I use it regularly for back pain and leg cramps. The relief is not long lasting but Magnesium Oil can be reapplied as often as desired. It is readily absorbed in just a few minutes.

      Re the panic attacks. They are hell! One must learn to recognize them for what they are and do the things that will help to calm you until they pass. Do a Google search on “panic attacks” and get a better understanding of them and how to deal with them.

      You are not alone with your problems. Many of us deal with them daily. You must figure out (through investigation by Google research) what may work for you. Good suggestions are out there but one must sift through a lot of stuff to come up wit them.

      • Don M September 23, 2020 at 7:35 am Reply

        To A. Coleman… Have you investigated https://aculief.com/ ? The Aculief principle is based on Chinese acupressure. There is an acupressure point in the soft tissue between the thumb and first finger. When pressure is put on this area it helps headaches. It is also touted for helping other things too. Look into it. You might find that it would help. The idea seems kind of funky but seems to work.

  7. A.Coleman September 21, 2020 at 9:03 am Reply

    Hi everybody,

    Tomorrow will be my 5th year Floxiversary!!

    I have been posting on my floxiversary every year. Last year I posted that I anticipated writing a recovery story by the time of my 5th floxiversary; unfortunately that is not what I am doing.

    I suffered my second most severe relapse in December of 2019. Around Christmas I was starting to think that my journey might have an end in site; but then I had a relapse that saw my headaches and brain fog get much worse and saw a return of sore lymph nodes (a symptom that had been gone for over a year) come back in February 2020. I also suffered a torn meniscus in my left knee about the same time. While this might not be totally fluoroquinolone related I am sure that I was in a vulnerable state and my recovery has been slowed by my FQ status.

    In the last year I have continued to see very slow improvement in my digestive problems (digestive problems along with other neurological problems are my major floxie issues). I am now almost completely free of heartburn and stomach discomfort is absent about 80% of the time. My lymph node issue is nearly resolved – for the second time. And most importantly I have started having some days where I don’t experience much brain fog / headaches.

    I have even had a few days in the last two months that I would rate as feeling normal. So, I am trending overall in the right direction, but progress is so very, very slow. I wish I could say that I anticipate writing a recovery story by the 6th year floxiversary; but given my relapses as I near healing and my very slow recovery rate I now believe it will be a bit longer than that. I will not write my healing story until I have been “normal” at least 90% of the time for the previous 6 months. While I don’t anticipate another relapse; I’m going to make sure I don’t post a healing story then suffer one.

    I still deal with tinitus and neuropathy. The neuropathy in my feet has gotten to the point where I only notice it if I wear uncomfortable shoes or put lots of pressure on my feet (I always get neuropathy for an hour or so after I work out for example unless all I do is yoga or mild weight lifting). The weird cold sensation I have in my lower legs is clearly related to Magnesium and Epsom salt baths and Mg oil sprays make it better. I take lots of Mg threonate and Mg glycinate but it must be getting used up in other areas of my body or not being absorbed and my legs need the external sources of Mg. I still have a bit of an issue with anxiety where I have issues for a week or so then go for a month without. I have been using a liposomal form of GABA when I get a panic attack and it has been helping BTW.

    While my headaches and brain fog have gotten much better they are still the primary issue affecting my life most days. I almost always have a portion of the day now that is free of these issues; and have had about 15% of all days be mostly free of problems for the last two months. I also still have weird issues with my neck and I think all of this is tied together to some aspect. I suspect a tiny Cerebral Spinal Fluid leak in my neck is a strong possibility. I also note that my fatigue is much worse when my brain fog is worse.

    I still suffer from insomnia. I fall asleep easily but wake up in the middle of the night and can’t return to sleep. Until the last six or so months I averaged about 6 hours of sleep a night. That is up to 7 now and while I still tend to wake up most nights that has shifted to around 4 AM giving me around 6 solid hours of sleep most nights.

    In the last year I have found two supplements that have really helped. Thorne – RF Curcumin with resvaratol has helped my neck and knees. It takes a long time to act (probably 1 to 2 months) and I only realized it was helping when I stopped and suffered renewed problems then resumed and they were alleviated. The other is the liposomal GABA from Quicksilver that seems to help my anxiety / panic attacks. (I added it to try to hep the insomnia; but it didn’t help there.)

    I expect I will be able to write a healing blog some day. I do get discouraged from time to time; but I am still changing and in the large season compared to season sense it is for the better. I appreciate the support of the folks on Floxie Hope and hope you are all doing well in your healing journey too. Let’s all hope that the next floxiversary is associated with a healing story post!

    • Virginia September 21, 2020 at 7:31 pm Reply

      Thanks for updating us with your progress and what has helped you; sorry your 5 year anniversary doesn’t bring better news. Sorry about the insomnia too; that might be the very worst of all health problems. Someone just recommended Trazodone to me for depression: it’s also used off-label for insomnia. If high doses of magnesium at night before bed don’t help your insomnia, this might be worth trying.

  8. Adam September 21, 2020 at 11:12 am Reply

    Some quick update guys, My Anxiety has increased after supplementing with MSM a Sulphur based compound, I think many people have genetic variations that makes them weak at dealing with Sulphur. I have also learned that the bodies PH level SIGNIFICANTLY impacts anxiety, the amygdala responds to higher acidity levels and neurons fire more rapidly causing anxiety, Try avoiding high Sulphur foods and supplements.

    Some other TIPS.

    1 – TREAT THE ANXIETY don’t wait – GET HELP in the form of a SGB block, watch the 60 minute interview on a stellate ganglion block for PTSD/Anxiety many of us dealing with live changing consequences of the plosion we were given are suffering from some form of anxiety or trauma disorder. PLEASE try and get an SGB injection done, Dr Lipov is the best, he also conducts he used both a lidocaine solution and for SEVERE PTSD he even conducts a ”radiofrequency (RF) ablation of Stellate ganglion region (SG) ”.

    2 – Zinc is the MASTER ORGANISER – take it you are likely deficient and it helps in calming the excited neurons.

  9. John Taylor September 22, 2020 at 4:03 am Reply

    Hi all,

    I became a Floxie three years back but learned how to overcome it using supplements and diet changes. I have been Floxie free for about a month and am restoring the damage at a steady pace. I have to recover from the financial ruin next.

    I think everyone can get past being a Floxie in about a year. The first thing to do is to chemically remove all toxins. It takes two treatments. First remove the Fluroquinolones with Sturated Epsom salt foot soaks. 15 minutes a day for four days is required. Second take a daily tonic of Borax solution , one ounce. 2 teaspoons in a quart of water.

    I look forward to your results and questions.

    John Taylor – The Healthy Truth

  10. Don M September 23, 2020 at 7:50 am Reply

    Magnesium Oil……… It is magnesium chloride and distilled or clean filtered water. DO NOT underestimate the power of it when it comes to relieving muscle cramps. Muscle cramps anywhere on the body. Just spray it on and let it absorb into the skin. One can make it into a roll on by using an old roll on bottle. Just drill a hole near the top and fill it with Mag Oil. Cover the hole with a piece of tape. It works and it is cheap. Try it.

    • A.Coleman September 25, 2020 at 7:32 am Reply

      I just want to second Don’s suggestion. Henk is gone now and not here to preach the miracles of Epsom Salts and Mg; so I will try to take up his mantle. Topical Magnesium really does help even when you are taking large oral doses.

      I use Mg spray when my neuropathy in my legs flares up and usually after three or four days of application it will either go away or be mitigated. And I take weekly Epsom Salt baths for both the detox impact and the Mg. I use the Zechstein Spray version of Mg that I buy on Amazon; but as Don notes you can even make your own. It may itch a bit when first applied and might leave a slight residue on your skin if some of the magnesium isn’t absorbed; but it really works for nerve pain and muscle cramps.

      • Don M September 28, 2020 at 5:51 am Reply

        Another thing that Henk was very strong on was the Bob Beck Protocol. https://www.bobbeck.com/pdfs/beck-protocol-handbook.pdf
        PMEF works. Only one reference per post or it gets reviewed and usually scrapped. See the next post for information on Dr. William Pawluk …. and expert on PEMF

        • Don M September 28, 2020 at 6:20 am

          https://www.drpawluk.com/ MEDICAL AUTHORITY ON PEMF THERAPY, MAGNETIC FIELD THERAPY …. PEMF has been around in the world for many years. It is just beginning to catch on here in the US but it’s acceptance is outside the MD world. May I add? The MD world does not want competition for their pills. It can be found in the world of Chiropractors and ND doctors. Investigate it. It is a non invasive way to slowly improve your health. I say “slowly” because PEMF is not a 3 day mask over the problem.
          Also light therapy from the specter of red and infrared Is beneficial too. The thing called “Cold Laser” uses these light specters. Investigate it. It is also a non invasive thing. Just like PEMF light therapy is not a 3 day fix that just masks over the problem. Spending 30 minutes with the feet under a light panel, doesn’t “cure” the peripheral neuropathy problem, but sure make them feel better.

  11. Jessica September 24, 2020 at 9:49 pm Reply

    I was wondering if anyone has tried to take another antibiotic (different from a florquinolone) soon after being floxed? If so, what was your experience? I had to prematurely stop taking the florquinolone, due to severe adverse symptoms, so my original infection was never cured. I am very concerned that this new antibiotic will cause problems since I took the florquinolone a week and a half ago. This new antibiotic has the capabilities to cause a QT prolongation, but should be much safer. If it is good to wait to take the new antibiotic, what would be a good amount of time to wait? It is difficult to trust any medication at this point. Thanks for the help!

    • A.Coleman September 25, 2020 at 7:28 am Reply

      Jessica – the post Antibiotics after FQs on My Quinn Story is a good list of usually tolerated antibiotics. https://www.myquinstory.info/antibiotics-after-fqs/

      One concern; sounds like you were just recently floxed. What were your symptoms? And be warned it is not atypical to have fluoroquinolone reactions months following taking them, because the damage they wreak can take time to surface. In my case it took about 6 weeks. I say this not to scare you; but so you know that a perceived reaction to a new antibiotic might just be a delayed additional symptom from the fluoroquinolone. Also, knowing why you think you need an antibiotic would help. If it is something like a UTI or other common infection there may be many ways to treat it without an antibiotic.

      At five years post floxing I haven’t needed another antibiotic. And I don’t know what I will do if / when I ever need one since even before my floxing I was already allergic to Keflex, which is one of the three reported as tolerated my many floxies. I would probably try one of the others on this list or possibly Penicillin; it’s been around for a very long time and is in the same family as Amoxicilin, which is listed as usually tolerated.

      In your position I would investigate lots of options before taking another antibiotic. Check this site for your condition or post and I am sure other floxies will have options to try before an antiboitic.

    • John Taylor September 28, 2020 at 8:09 am Reply

      Your request is complex. Please tell us your FQ symptoms. Depending on your symptoms, I would recommend different things.

      Fluroquinolones are easily removed from your body with saturated Epsom salt foot soaks. Because of this, as a fully recovered Floxie, I prefer Cipro as it is removed after 4 days. BUT you are not a fully recovered Floxie. It takes a lot of work to recover from your current condition. Don’t let that discourage you as the full removal process shows benefits immediately while complete removal can take a year.

      First, you experienced symptoms more from the accumulation of antibiotics and other toxins over your lifetime. These chemicals stay in your body on the surface of your cells and out of the blood stream. The last antibiotic you took pushed you over the point where the destructive process exceeded your repair process. It was “the straw the broke the camel’s back.” Any antibiotic would have had the same effect. This is why you became a Floxie and others did not. Unfortunately your doctor doesn’t understand this. Removal of just a little moves you away from this tipping point. So if you start removal, you will be better able to handle any antibiotic.

      Removal requires on two chemicals that chemically react FQs (Magnesium) and all other toxins (Borax). Most of the stored toxins you have arrived in our food supply. Two pounds of turkey contains one dose of azithromycin. Everyone is accumulating destructive chemistry. Those of us who have taken frequent antibiotics become Floxies first.

      Magensium salts – sulphate( Epsom salts) and Chloride (Only available,on-line) must be adsorbed through the skin to reach concentrations high enough to remove FQs. Soak a foot for 15 minutes per day. In four days you will have removed the FQs. You should notice a benefit immediately. You can take any antibiotic at the same time because of “immediately”. Yes you are reducing the benefit of a FQ but it will still do its job. Epsom salt is available in a grocery store in the first aid section. Buy two bags. magnesium chloride is available on-line in 8 pound bags. When it comes in use a 50/50 blend.

      Borax is taken a drinking an once a day of two teaspoons in a quart of water.

      Heavy doses of Vitamin C like 5000/day will reduce an infection. It is anti bacterial. It does little for a common cold, but bacteria take a hit.

      Repairing the damage antibiotics cause is very complex. I have written 90 pages on what I learned doing this. The complexity comes from repairs have to follow a very specific sequence. It is a step by step process. Each step requires different supplements and diet changes. Taking a supplement for a more advanced step can steal nutrients for the current step aggravating or reversing the repairs of the current step. It can make the current malfunction quite severe so it is very important to follow the sequence. QT prolongation can be repaired but one part is at the end of the 90 pages.

      I hope this helps. Please respond with any question you have.

      John Taylor – The Healthy Truth

      • Don M September 28, 2020 at 8:55 am Reply

        Where does one find the 90 pages?

        • John Taylor September 28, 2020 at 5:46 pm


          They are available as an ebook at amazon.com. The title is The Healty Truth – Supplements and Signposts Used to Repair my Cipro Damage… by John Taylor.

          There is a lot in here for anyone still suffering from taking a fluroquinolone or just living in the US accumulating toxins from food. Avoidance is nice but getting this stuff out of you quickly is much better.

          John Taylor The Healthy Truth

  12. Don M September 26, 2020 at 12:23 pm Reply

    Re the Jessica and A.Coleman posts. http://pantrypharmacy.com/2018/12/20/the-kill-list-e-coli-edition/ This is some interesting reading. More complicated than popping an antibiotic pill but maybe natural will work better and have permanent results in the end.

  13. Don M September 26, 2020 at 12:42 pm Reply

    Jessica…….. Read this article: “Don’t kill E. coli bacteria that cause bladder infection, feed them” https://nutritionandhealing.com/2014/06/04/eliminate-bladder-infection/ I use D-Mannose and it does work. The nice thing about D-Mannose is that since it is called a kind of sugar you can use it regularly to ward off future infections.

  14. Bruce September 30, 2020 at 6:25 pm Reply

    John Taylor, can you use Boron instead of Borax?

    • John Taylor October 5, 2020 at 8:48 pm Reply


      Boric acid is toxic if ingested. Very toxic. Borax is not toxic at low concentrations. At two treasons per quart the soapy taste is very slight.

      • Don M October 6, 2020 at 9:21 am Reply

        John Taylor….. I get the Borax. Mix 2 teaspoons in a quart of water and take about 1 ounce of it daily. Store the remainder in the frig for future days.
        The foot soak. Only one foot at a time? Not both feet? After the 4 days, how often?
        Next…. On the various vitamins that you recommend. Should on be taking them along with the foot soaks and Borax? Or should one be abstaining from them until later? You stress the importance of doing things in the proper sequence.
        I did go on Amazon and buy your ebook. I am a slow reader and have a hard time comprehending/absorbing what I am reading but it is very interesting information. If it helps me it is well worth working at it. I am 86 and have no idea when I can say that “officially” I was floxed. 60 years ago I acquired a simple UTI and was sent to a young and well meaning Urologist. At the time I trusted him and didn’t realize that the more procedures he did the more money he could bill. With all his fiddling he turned the simple UTI into a chronic prostate infection. Over 25 years I was shuffled among 7 different urologists a couple of infectious disease doctors and a gastroenterologist or two. Along the way I had a couple of surgeries. No one could fix the problem but they kept feeding me antibiotics. Then along came Cipro. I was enrolled in the “compassionate use” program and took Cipro (750 mg per tablet 2 times daily) before it even came to market. It worked!!!! I had no idea what else it was doing to me and no doctor ever said a word about long lasting and sometimes permanent adverse effects. Now when one tries to explain “floxing” to a doctor they just roll their eyes and put their tongue in their cheek.
        For about 30 years I took Cipro every time the UTI came back. Over that time span I must have taken 1,000 pills. I always had some strange thing going on but the doctors always had their own explanation. Then I began to read about Fluoroquinolones on the Internet. That’s when I realized what had been happening to me all those years. Between my age and the floxing I am paying for it now!!!
        Now my trust in doctors is seriously shaken.
        To quote from the My Quin article “What is Floxing” “Most doctors find the broad scope of the damages in the Fluoroquinolone Toxicity syndrome preposterous and they simply can’t wrap their heads around a differential diagnosis to include the Fluoroquinolones. Despite the symptom being listed in the drug literature, most doctors don’t know what to look for or how to connect the symptoms”. When you ask a doctor about floxing and he says “never heard of it” one had better get out of his office pronto!!!

        • John Taylor October 6, 2020 at 7:30 pm


          You make a good point about timing. I’ll have to update my book about this.

          I take the borax first thing in the morning and the supplements 8 or more hours later. I also take 60mg of melatonin at bedtime. My ND recommends 120 milligram but I cut back as it would make me sluggish.

          Since antibiotics and biocides attach to the surface of your cells and are out of solution they stay in you for years. Most of this comes from our modern food, so it is very important to remove them. This is why doctors don’t know how to help you.

          I just soak one foot for 15 minutes a day. I soak the foot with the worst leg for cramps. After the 4 days, the Floroquinolones are removed. I did It once or twice a week as long as my muscles were limber. For three years I didn’t know about the importance of Magnesium chloride. When I realized this I had a lot of catching up to do and I soaked for an hour every day – as long as I had computer work. So you have to listen to your body.

          I appreciate your comment about the time it takes to absorb this information. We are talking about a lot of changes. it takes time to own and make these changes. There is a lot of information to absorb. The first six chapters get one to first base. Unless you have specific problems, hold off on supplements until you reach chapter six and your Vitamin D levels are high enough so you sleep soundly. Raising your Vitamin D level will consume a lot of magnesium so adjust the number per week to keep the magnesium levels up. Vitamin D and magnesium are used by all parts of our body to repair things, so make sure you have enough of both so a repair supplement has both available to make new or repair What the supplement is working on.

          I think weight loss is a good example of how complex our body chemistry is. There are thousands of books on weight loss inspired by someone’s success. Yet the US is overweight.The keto diet is emerging as successful more and more. I modded by taking so starch for about 4 months.

          Thanks for asking your question on this blog. I expect it will help others.

          I look forward to your post in about a month on the progress you have made.

          John Taylor

  15. Andrea October 1, 2020 at 5:02 am Reply

    Hey guys, how are you doing?

    I wanted to share with you my latest experience with a new “supplement” : medical cannabis.
    I recently found a doctor who prescribed it to me, so I’ve been using it for the last few weeks. My main problem is frequent urination and chronic pelvic pain, and other aches, expecially in my ankles and shins. While the cannabis didn’t help much, well let’s say it helped just a little, with the pelvic pain, I’ve noticed great improvement for the aches in my legs. I usually walk a lot, as a form of soft training, 5-6 miles a day, but if I’d did it for 2-3 days straight, the pain started to increased, and I had to stop for at least 24 hrs, sometimes even more. But now, with the help of cannabis, I’ve noticed I’m able to walk at a nice pace, even uphill, everyday, without any problem and when sometimes, in the evening, the pain come back, I use cannabis, and in a matter of 15-30 minutes, the pain really decrease or even disappear. I’ve also noticed I’m way more relaxed and happy, well, let’s say less grumpy.

    That’s all for now. Wish everyone the best, expecially the old “friends”: Don, A. Coleman, Barbara, well…everyone.


    • Barbara Arnold October 1, 2020 at 9:29 am Reply

      Hi Andrea,
      Really glad you have found something that at least helps you some. Thats great. May it continue and improve for you all the time.
      Some information for other floxies is always useful.
      From my point of view, I went for some more sessions of ozone autohemotherapy as I was feeling so fatigued. I had three sessions but the first and third session caused a massive herxheimer re action, or a healing re action. I could not stop shivering inside, just like flu symptoms and my urine was brown. I realised I was detoxing and after a day I was feeling so much better, and everything went back to normal. I was going to have a couple more, but I didn’t want to experience that again, so I stopped. In the early years I did get a herx reaction but not as bad. It is quite common, and if you persevere the ozone really does help. I am feeling a lot less fatigued than before.
      I’ve also discovered a suppliment called C60 , it’s a really powerful antioxident, and I’ve noticed this has helped me to. Worth researching for those that are interested.
      Hope other’s are healing here.


    • Michael October 1, 2020 at 8:21 pm Reply

      I’m doing good thank you Andrea, I’m glad you found something that helps. I would like to try medicinal cannabis or CBD, but I’m embarrassed to talk to my doctor about it!

      Right now a lot of my symptoms have gone or nearly totally disappeared including my brain fog and any joint pain etc that I had. Even the tinnitus I haven’t really notice at all lately.

      About 3 weeks ago, like G W Bush I announced to my wife “mission accomplished”. I had been so symptom free or just mild tingling etc from the neuropathy for a couple of months that I thought it was basically over.

      However. Right after that I hit the gym for a week solid, doing lots of stuff including running, weights. And following that I had a total crash. My neuropathy returned, with tingling all over including places that I thought had healed (arms, back of head etc).

      I’m at 15 months out now.

      So I’ve relapsed a bit, but the only symptoms is neuropathy. Unforutnately it’s fairly widespread, so I get cold feet, cold feeling up my shins/calves and even a little in my forearms (though its very mild there)….

      so I started taking nortriptyline that I had and the occasional gaba just to smash it. And I’m taking it easy. Damn I hate this thing.

      I was reading a paper that talked about the cycle of mitochondrial damage and oxidative stress, and how if you exercise you get more oxidative stress that causes more mitochondrial damage (if you already have damaged mitochondria) so you should only do moderate regular exercise and not try to smash it….

      lesson learned.

      Hope everyone else is doing OK

      • Andrea October 5, 2020 at 6:19 am Reply

        Hi Michael, I think you’re completely right about the mitochondria part. I’ve learned it the hard way too. Walking everyday, ankle pain pemritting, it’s completely fine for me, but if I’d try to do more serious stuff, after a little while, maybe a couple of weeks, I find myself exsousted and I have to stop for a while. You gotta find the sweet spot where you can do somenthing to keep your body moving, but without overstressing it.
        About cannabis now, I’m not trying to incourage you in any way, but why are you ashemed to talk about it with your doctor? Plus, where do you live? Are you from the US? Many states have it legalized, I wish I could live in a place like California or Colorado, where you can buy it without any problem whatsoever…

        • John Taylor October 6, 2020 at 4:55 pm

          I noticed you get exhausted from walking. Are you out of breath or are your legs tired? If out of breath, this a aheart strength issue so your body isn’t getting enough oxygen.

      • A.Coleman October 5, 2020 at 7:25 am Reply

        Michael, I think that your sudden bout of exercise especially if you hadn’t been exercising all along through your floxing could also just be detox. Exercise is great at detoxing your body and all those stored toxins were flushed out of your system at an increased pace by your activity. Then you had to deal with them leading to the return of your neuropathy.

        I wouldn’t stop exercising or limit it to only walking and light weight lifting. Instead I would focus on slightly more strenous activities. You do eventually need to get rid of those toxins or you will potentially suffer a serious relapse that is seemingly out of the blue in the future. I think this is what happens to people who have “recovered” from floxing only to relapse. They start doing normal things and trigger a detox cycle and that causes a relapse.

        I would suggest you think about activities that have lower impact on your joints but still are cardiovascular. If you can swim that would be great, I use a rowing machine regularly (or did before COVID) and also do lots of elliptical work. I admit to being a bit trepidatious about returning to exercise when I can – what I am doing at home isn’t as intensive as what I did previously. Read more about how exercise can help with detox here – https://www.today.com/health/can-exercise-detox-your-body-its-not-about-sweat-1C7634616

        I also caution you against using the drugs to mitigate the symptoms of the neuropathy. Those will help how you “feel” but have their own side effects and I question if they decrease the ability / pace of healing in your nerves. Topical Mg in the form of Epsom Salt baths and Mg Oil spray will help some of those symptoms without taking yet another drug.

        Be aware too that Epsom Salt baths are another strong detox trigger. I take one a week with lots of Epsom Salt and very hot water. I always feel a bit worse for a few hours after the bath; but much better the next few days.

  16. Dee October 1, 2020 at 8:56 am Reply

    Andreas, so good to hear!! Glad you are “feeling” better and walking away with less pain! I’m still dealing with small issues (mostly skin issues, dry with some eczema) and also peeing a lot too. Of course I’m not at my pre flox days and May never be but managing to live life pretty normal as much as possible!! Three years out now. Let’s keep on marching forward!! Good to hear happy news from you!!!

    • John Taylor October 6, 2020 at 4:50 pm Reply


      Skin issues, especially peeling can be caused by a Magnesium Chloride deficiency. If you have stiff or sore muscles too, Bingo. MgCl is available,on-line. Add it to your Epsom salt foot soak.

  17. Michael October 1, 2020 at 9:37 pm Reply

    Hiya. I’m interested to know if anybody with neuropathies got better after 1 year. The reason I ask is that this is my main symptom now (peripheral neuropathy small fiber). I know people have gotten better from it but from what I’ve seen a lot of those got better within a year. What I’m wondering is if anybody’s resolves after that. Anybody had it and it went away at 18 months, 24 months, 36 months etc

    I’m at 15 months and really wondering if I’m stuck with this for life or whether I can hope for more resolution of symptoms at this stage…


    • Don M October 1, 2020 at 10:40 pm Reply

      From what I have read about the peripheral neuropathy issue it is caused by the die off of nerves and one must get them back to life again.

    • A.Coleman October 5, 2020 at 7:09 am Reply

      Michael, as you know you and I share many similar symptoms and I am now 5 years into my floxie journey. I can tell you that my neuropathy both got better and worse during that time. The neuropathy in my feet has slowly gotten better and now at 5 years post floxing I only notice it a few days a month and after I exercise. Apparently the banging on the nerves of hitting my feet repeatedly when I exercise triggers the neuropathy, but it only lasts for an hour or so after the exercise ceases.

      However, at about year 3 I started getting a weird form of neuropathy in my lower legs. Just on the inner surface of my calves and the lower third of my thighs I get a weird cold sensation. This is very specific. It only happens when the temperature is below about 72 degrees Fahrenheit (22 Celsius), and then only when there is fabric touching my legs. It really flares with jeans and with tighter slacks. It comes and goes, but affects me about 50% of the time. In the summer when it is warmer and I can wear shorts I hardly notice it at all. This has gotten a tiny bit better, but is still an issue and one I am starting to suspect may be with me for life. Neuropathy in my feet took about three to four years to get to its present level, so there is still some hope for this odd symptom. It is not unbearable, but is really annoying.

      I suspect that if you are still experiencing neuropathy at 15 months that you will have some impact for the rest of your life, but also think that the body will continue to heal and the impact will lessen over time. Eventually I suspect that your neuropathy will become an intermittent annoyance with a few days every now and then when it truly bothers you. Nerve cells take far longer to recover from the damages to mitochondria than other cells and sometimes never do recover. Your age when floxed and level of floxing all play into recovery. See this article for some good basic information about how nerves regenerate and transport mitochincria – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4955021/

      • Michael October 6, 2020 at 2:01 am Reply

        A.Coleman, thank you for sharing your story with me. It really helps to know. I also came to the realisation this last week, that maybe some of these symptoms at least are with me to stay, for the rest of my life.

        That was a bitter pill to swallow. Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll see but still, it’s becoming more likely as the 18 month mark steadily approaches. The reason I say the 18 month mark, is because speaking to a neurologist he told me that 18 months is the time-frame they normally give for medication related neuropathy to get better, after that he says it’s “residual symptoms”.

        But I haven’t lost all faith yet, as you say other people have noticed continuous improvement, very incrementally and gradually over years.

        What I did want to raise again was the question of B6 toxicity. I have seen a number of Facebook posts of people who have had B6 toxicity. There are a few groups out there. It seems another type of “flox” situation. One lady in particular told me that she developed neuropathy from taking just 100mg of B6 pyridoxine for 4 months. I was surprised because I thought you had to take doses much higher than that.

        However, I did get a sense a few months back that B6 was affecting me in a bad way. I discontinued it and cautiously restarted it recently. However, I’m only taking about 50-100mg intermittently, at times P-5-P on it’s own other times I take my B-complex multivitamin that has 100mg of pyridoxine.

        So I’m stopping my B vitamins. I will continue with B12 complex and see how I feel in a few months. It is a concern to me that I may not just have floxed myself but I may have had B6 toxicity on top of that. I do wonder now.

        I will say on the bright side I am doing really well otherwise. I mentioned it before. Brain fog, joints, orthostatic, other weird side effects, flu like symptoms etc have gone.
        Hope you are well.

        Man I miss Henk. I didn’t know him for that long, but I just remember you and Henk talking and me trying to pick up pointers back at the beginning of my flox story.

    • John Taylor October 6, 2020 at 4:43 pm Reply


      The answer to the question of neuropathy Is yes yes yes, it is possible. The details can be complex.

      That fact that You can feel tingling or anything anything at all says the nerve is not severed mechanically. So the nerve is not working up to standard. There are two reasons for this. Most likely it is a salt conductivity issue. Primarily nerves use sodium Chloride for conductivity however other salts are very important. Saturated foot soaks of Epsom salts and magnesium chloride plus Magnesium taurate pills will bring the magnesium inside your tissues up to functional,level. the taurate ion associates with surface of brain and nerve cells so it draws positive ions like magnesium to nerve cells.

      Taking magnesium malate and glycinate pills will help draw magnesium to your muscles in a similar manor. You need all five of these salts.

      Pink Himalayan salts Contain many other salts that help nerve function. You should feel your nerves come alive like star dust falling down your legs. This can take a week.

      The second reason is the nerve cells don’t make enough energy to transmit a signal. This is a glucose and mitochondria Deficiency inside the nerve cell. Glucose deficiency inside the cell is diabetes related. The glucose can’t get inside. None for the western medicines or “glucose herbs” help glucose get inside brain and nerve cellS. If you starve a cell for glucose long enough, it will die. However nerve cell death by diabetes has a priority. Hearing and eye sight go first. Since you didn’t complain about these, I believe your foot nerves are still alive.

      So take heart in my story. 21 months back, I lost half of my remaining hearing, vision was so blurry I could not read road signs, my legs were shoe polish black below my calves, My feet were numb and ice cold, my right foot slapped when I walked, and my right leg/foot didn’t help with balancing. I basically was working with a peg leg. Today my feet tingle slightly once in a while. My vision is back and my legs are normal,skin color. My balance is so good I am started to run again. I have a normal gait.

      So,how did this happen. The first thing to do is remove all toxins. Foot soaks take of the Fluroquinolones in about 4 days. Borax removes all other toxcins. That takes 8 to 12 months.

      Getting glucose into the cells involves many steps that I describe in a amazon kindle book “The Healthy Truth” by John Taylor. It is a multi-step,process. However, there are fast work arounds you can do while you are waiting for the nature cure to take hold.
      1- Eat oil coconut oil 6 teaspoons/day. Drink olive and avocado oil 2 ounces daily. Oil is an alternate fuel that goes right into all our cells.You will notice you are not as hungry and save money on groceries. Oil reduces the need for glucose.
      2- Take D- Ribose. It is a sugar you can buy on Amazon. D-Ribose is made From glucose by the mitochondria so taking it decreases the work the mitochondria has to,do. It is like doubling your existing mitochondria output while you build new ones. You want to take measured amount. If you don’t have enough energy to get through the day, start with 6 spoonfuls. If you have too much energy so you can’t fall.off to sleep at night, decrease the spoonfuls. If you want more daily energy increase the number of spoonfuls.
      3- Take Omega3 fish oil. Any fish oil is beneficial. the expensive ones advertised as better don’t add a noticeable,benefit. 4 grams per day.

      I should also mention the exercise for pinched nerves. There are many but This exercise will strengthen your back quickly.
      Stand with your feet together.
      Hold a 2.5 pound weight in your right hand fully extended.
      Move this weight in a circle to the front and your left side.
      move it in a circle (full,arm extension) to your back. At some point you have to bend your arm.
      Repeat five times.
      repeat with your left arm.
      When you can do 3 sets each arm, increase the weight.

      What you are doing is making the muscles contract on the opposite side from the weight to keep your balance. As these muscles get stronger, they will hold your spine in alignment so the nerves don’t get pinched.

      Well this is start. You should feel improvements in a week or two.

      Hope this helps.

      John Taylor

    • Ray October 12, 2020 at 7:48 pm Reply

      Hi Michael (and all floxies reading this),

      I’m Ray, from Ray’s story of cipro poisoning. That happened to me 6 years ago, and although I don’t check the site often nowadays, when I was going through the worst of my symptoms I came here a lot for hope. So I make a mental reminder to come back when I can.

      For me it got better. At 6 years out I’m actually in the best shape of my life. Right after cipro I could barely walk a city block without being in pain, feeling the muscle twitches, and enduring the neuropathy. It was incredibly scary. 6 years later… this weekend I ran a 21k half-marathon distance, went hiking, did a back workout, and went for an interval run today.

      It was a hard road to go from there to here, and especially for those first months, that first year. Some things resolved earlier, some things took longer. I know when I was checking this site I was suffering and I wanted to know timeframes, for when I could hope for it getting better. In the worst of my despair I worried I would never get better. I did though.

      So I post this here, and come back to the site infrequently when I can, to offer inspiration and hope. I came back physically and mentally stronger. I feel very deeply for everything everyone here is going through, believe me. It’s possible. I believe in you. Please believe in yourself. You’re stronger than you know.

      Warm wishes to all,


      • Michael October 13, 2020 at 1:52 pm Reply

        Thanks Ray that means a lot. That’s where I want to be in a few years. I don’t mind if it takes some time. I just don’t want the rest of my life to be constant burning and tingling and stinging!

  18. Barbara Arnold October 3, 2020 at 2:31 am Reply

    Dr. Carolyn Dean MD ND

    When Magnesium Makes Me Worse
    October 11, 2012
    When people take a drug or a supplement they take it with the expectation that it will make them feel better. We know that’s not always the case with drugs but what about supplements?

    I wrote the original post Oct 11, 2011. Since then it’s had almost one million views. By 2017, many people were reading the second edition of The Magnesium Miracle (2017) and hearing about magnesium. As a result, more people are taking magnesium than ever before and a few people are wondering why it sometimes makes them feel worse.

    In about 1 out of 100 people there can be a shift in symptoms that you don’t understand. Here’s how one reader put it. “My obvious magnesium deficiency symptoms, cramping, muscle aches, headaches, etc., are worsening slightly rather than getting better. Anxiety is the only thing that has gotten better. Is this normal? I’m using magnesium oil and magnesium citrate but not yet able to tolerate more than 200-300mg without getting diarrhea.”

    For the side effect of diarrhea, I recommend switching to my magnesium product, ReMag because it’s fully absorbed at the cellular level and has no laxative effect. I also recommend its companion product, ReMyte (multiple mineral), a 12-mineral formula that is also absorbed fully into the cells and supports the thyroid and adrenals.

    However in “sensitive” people, even ReMag can rev people up too much, or trigger an irritable bowel. If you are chronically fatigued and in, what I call, Total Body Meltdown, feeling revved up may make you feel weaker in the beginning. If that’s the case, just cut back and take less ReMag and then work up slowly! Take 1/4 tsp of ReMag in a liter of sea salted water and sip it through the day and slowly build up. Some customers may have to take only a few drops of ReMag in sea salted water and slowly increase.

    Below are 15 of the most common reasons why you might feel worse, or think you feel worse, after taking magnesium. (I’ve added to this list several times since it was first published.)

    Actually it’s not magnesium that’s making you worse but just the way you are taking it or other things you are or aren’t taking along with it or the amount of toxicity in your body. None of this means that magnesium is bad for you. You can think of magnesium – and ReMag – as a food that your body has been deprived of and desperately needs.

    1. You’re not taking enough: When people feel worse with magnesium, I believe that the 700-800 enzyme systems that require magnesium just get jump-started and They Want More! Like everyone else, I used to write that magnesium was necessary in 325 enzyme systems but now, according to many researchers that number is more than twice what we previously thought.

    In the above statement, my blog reader said she couldn’t take more that 200-300 mg. But all 800 enzyme systems want a piece of the action once they’re been woken up! And with each enzyme system pumping away they are using up the little magnesium you gave them and, like I said, They Want More!

    This doesn’t mean that you’ll increase your magnesium ad infinitum! You will reach a saturation point of your magnesium stores and actually be able to decrease your magnesium intake. However, my blog reader isn’t going to get anywhere near the amount she needs if she keeps getting the laxative effect on 200-300mg. And getting the laxative effect so early will prevent her from getting the magnesium she needs to treat her magnesium deficiency symptoms. Some people think they have enough magnesium when they get the laxative effect and try to find other remedies for their symptoms.

    That’s one of the main reasons I decided to create and promote Pico-Ionic Magnesium, ReMag. It’s absorbed 100% at the cellular level and has no laxative effect. So you can take as much as you require to eliminate all your magnesium deficiency symptoms. BUT, even with ReMag, if your bowels are “sensitive” just go slowly. Instead of the maintenance dose of 1/2 tsp twice a day or the therapeutic dose of 1-2 tsp twice a day, you can begin with 5-10 drops a day and take it with food. Then you increase by 10 drops every 2-3 days. To determine your magnesium saturation point, you can get a Magnesium RBC test through Request A Test. The range is usually given as 4.2-6.9 mg/dL; the optimum level is between 6.0-6.5mg/dL. It’s not the definitive magnesium test but it’s something that you can use to follow your magnesium saturation.

    2. You’re taking too much: You can also feel worse on magnesium if you take too much, too soon. This usually happens if you have adrenal fatigue and weakness from magnesium deficiency. Anyone in this category should start very slowly on any new supplement or drug. If you take a high dose of magnesium right from the start it’s like using muscles that powered a bicycle and expect them to power a jet. Your body might just be so weak that revving up 800 enzyme systems all at once makes you feel jangled and even anxious or depressed because you don’t know what’s going on. Please try to understand that this may actually mean that you really do need more magnesium. Start with one quarter of the recommended dose of magnesium and work up as your body adapts.

    3. You have low blood pressure from long-standing magnesium deficiency and adrenal fatigue. You may have heard that magnesium can lower your BP so you worry about that happening when your BP is already low. Here’s what is likely happening: Magnesium deficiency can cause an under-active autonomic nervous system leading to low blood pressure and poor circulatory system performance. This is another instance where you must begin by supplementing at about one quarter the recommended dose of magnesium and slowly build up. The other minerals offered in ReMyte are important in this case as well to support adrenals and thyroid and improve potassium levels.

    4. You’re on heart medications and as your health conditions improve, your meds are becoming “toxic.” That’s because you may not require them anymore! Check with your doctor when you are using magnesium to treat health conditions and want to wean off your meds. For example, magnesium helps lower blood pressure. If you continue to take the same amounts of BP meds, your BP might get too low. This is not a “side effect” of magnesium. It’s a side effect of taking drugs when you don’t need them. Magnesium balances blood pressure. If you have low BP to begin with and are not on meds, start magnesium very slowly because, as I describe in #2, you want your body to slowly adapt to a mineral you may have been deficient in for a long time.

    5. You’re on fluoridated medications that bind up your magnesium and make you deficient even when you’re taking magnesium. See a list of fluoridated medications at the Fluoride Toxicity Research Collaborative. Many common drugs are fluoridated: Prozac, Paxil, Lipitor, Cipro, Diflucan to name a few.

    6. You’ve started taking iodine (in doses above the RDA) that speeds up your metabolism giving you heart palpitations that has nothing to do with magnesium deficiency. Even people who take low dose iodine without taking enough magnesium and selenium can run into iodine toxicity problems. ReMyte has the proper amounts of iodine and selenium, as well as zinc, manganese and copper to support the thyroid.

    7. You’re taking too much Vitamin D: Here’s what happens. You feel great on your magnesium and then you begin to have more magnesium deficiency symptoms after adding a high-dose Vitamin D supplement. Magnesium is required to transform Vitamin D from its storage form to its active form and for many other aspects of Vitamin D metabolism. That means if you take the extremely high doses that allopathic doctors are now recommending you can plummet into magnesium deficiency and not know what the heck is happening. In general, I don’t recommend more than 1,000-2,000 IU of Vitamin D daily for this reason. And never take Vitamin D without magnesium. I’ve written several blogs on this topic trying to sort out what’s going on. Read Too Much Vitamin D? and The Vitamin D Debate.

    8. You are taking too much calcium and it’s pushing out your magnesium: Read Why I Hate Calcium to understand why the most prescribed mineral is actually dangerous because it’s causing heart disease in women.

    9. You’re taking magnesium and becoming dehydrated because you don’t take any other trace minerals and you don’t drink enough water. Read The Solution for Dehydration and take 1/4 tsp of sea salt in every liter of water you drink. How much water per day? Half your body weight (in lbs.) in ounces of water. ReMyte, mineral and electrolyte formula is the next step in proper mineral balance and an improvement on just using sea salt for mineral balance.

    10. Magnesium is getting into your cells and detoxifying chemicals and heavy metals. Sometimes this can feel like a healing reaction. The symptoms can be an increase in muscle pain, joint pain and even skin rashes. That’s why I recommend that you build up your dosage of magnesium slowly as the cells detoxify and are finally able to work efficiently.

    11. You have IBS, which is a sensitivity of the lining of the gut or you are very toxic ((with heavy metals, medications, bad diet, yeast overgrowth (see #15)) and even ReMag gives you symptoms because it’s trying to help you detox. ReMag goes directly into the cells and will cause the muscles to relax and that can cause diarrhea. That’s why I try to “warn” people with “health conditions” to go slowly on ReMag for all the many reasons I’ve cited.

    12. You’re taking a magnesium glutamate or aspartate. I warn against taking these forms of magnesium in my blog Glutamates in Magnesium Chelates. According to neurosurgeon, Dr. Russell Blaylock, glutamate and aspartate can break down into individual amino acids and act as renegade neurotransmitters.

    13. You are taking high doses of magnesium and not getting enough calcium in your diet. I talk about the need to balance magnesium and calcium by supplementing with about 600mg of magnesium and getting 600mg of calcium in your diet. However many people are on a dairy-free diet and just don’t get enough calcium. If it’s just lactose intolerance, try yogurt or kefir, make bone broth and eat non-lactose raw cheese. If they don’t total 600mg of calcium, take my ReCalcia. Click on my book ReMyte and ReCalcia for more information.

    14. You are taking thyroid medication and you suddenly feel you are taking too much (increased pulse, feeling hot, hyperactive). The magnesium in ReMag and the 9 thyroid minerals in ReMyte can “wake up” your thyroid so that it begins to make its own thyroid hormone and you don’t require as much (or any) thyroid hormone anymore. (Be sure to check with your doctor and wean off slowly.)

    15. Your Immune System kicks in and tried to kick out yeast. If you have yeast overgrowth and your newly activated immune system is trying to get it under control, you can experience some yeast die off. You may develop a rash, itchy skin, itchy ears, a coated tongue, changes in your bowel movements, or vaginitis. Please read my book ReSet The Yeast Connection to learn about how to implement my Yeast Detox Protocol.

    Carolyn Dean MD ND

    The Doctor of the Future®

    RESOURCES: Along the borders and in the links of my web site you can find my books, writings, and my call-in radio show. Email your questions to: questions@drcarolyndeanlive.com.

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    Dr. Carolyn Dean is a medical doctor and naturopath. She’s the author of over 35 books including best seller The Magnesium Miracle along with IBS for Dummies, Hormone Balance, Death by Modern Medicine, and 110 Kindle books. In 2011, she launched RnA ReSet and brought her 50 years of experience into her proprietary, unique formulations that give every individual at any stage of wellness or illness the necessary building blocks for sustained health, vitality and well-being.
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    Thought this might help some people understand magnesium and it’s effects for floxies.

  19. David October 3, 2020 at 11:58 am Reply

    It’s my understanding that drugs like Cipro damaged our mitochondria ….. leached the magnesium out of mitochondria, Recovery depends on replenishing our mitochondria. Since being floxed and recovering, I’ve had identical symptoms from a statin after five months and then doxycycline. All three damage mitochondria. Cipro initiated my depletion and now a huge assortment of meds will do the same in varying degrees. Apparently propofol is not recommended for people who have been floxed. Is this assessment I’ve been given same as yours in terms of understanding what happened to us?

    • Michael October 3, 2020 at 1:04 pm Reply

      So what I have understood is that the mitochondria are not only damaged but also the mitochondrial DNA is damaged meaning bad mitochondria will continue to be regenerated.

      And what I now know is that things that cause oxidative stress including excessive exercise will potentially damage the mitochondria more leading to a visitors cycle of oxidative stress and mitochondria damage.

      This is what I think happened to me a few weeks ago and triggered a massive flare up as I was doing really good until then.

      So I’ve stopped doing exercise. I think it’s ok to do walks etc and maybe a few light weights but I’ve stopped doing running.

  20. Dee October 7, 2020 at 6:47 am Reply

    John, thanks for your feedback about my skin! I don’t have any skin peeling at all. I had used the word “peeing” a lot. BUT yes my skin is really acting up. I got nummular eczema from having a skin growth cut out 2 years out from floxing. I have nice olive skin that never had any skin problems all of my 64 years!! Now wounds are irritated and take forever to heal and I have dry itchy skin with dry itchy “spots” on my hands. This all came on after this eczema was triggered by that procedure. I’m thinking my collagen matrix was comprised from floxing which from what I know is a common symptom and result from floxing??? Not sure what to do for it??? It concerns me that my wounds (simple little scratches) heal so very slowly!

    • Barbara Arnold October 7, 2020 at 9:17 am Reply

      Hi Dee,
      Sorry to hear about your skin problems. Have you tried Aloe Vera? It contains vitamins A B C E, enzymes, polysaccharides, amino acids, sugars and minerals. It could help with your eczema and wound healing. xx

    • John Taylor October 9, 2020 at 9:49 pm Reply

      Hi Dee,

      I think getting all the toxins out of your body is the first step to overcome the Floxie effects. The problems isn’t just the last antibiotic you took that makes you feel compromised, it is all the toxins that have accumulated in your body on the surface of all your cells over your whole life. Once you hit a certain amount, the destruction exceeds the repairs your body can do. I found Borax to be verily effective in removing all toxins. It started to show benefits after about two weeks. Nine months later all feelings of being a Floxie just stopped and the healing process increased an order of magnitude.

      Google Borax for your health. As Borax is a detergent this sounds just crazy but chemically it is the strongest antioxidant that our bodies can tolerate. Antibiotics are strong oxidants and do oxidative damage. Removing them is essential. In addition to antibiotics, Pesticides, herbicides, fungicides etc also stay in our bodies and do damage. All this stuff needs to be removed. The Borax molecule attaches to the larger Molecule of these toxic compounds. It draws their electrons to it, weakening the carbon to carbon bonds elsewhere. When enough Borax is attached to the toxin it breaks into pieces and now passes out through your urine or stools.

      It took me 2 and half years to figure this out but less than a year to then overcome being a Floxie. So after 3 years I am not a Floxie anymore.

      Now I have to heal the damage.

      When you become a Floxie you start a journey of destruction. Things just keep going downhill. You may help one thing but the distraction continues across the board until you stop the destruction by removing all toxins. Then things start going uphill. The repair rate keeps increasing.

      Borax removes all toxins. Magnesium foot soaks just remove the Fluroquinolones. The foot soaks work very quickly but you still have to remove every thing else (with Borax).

      As I read this site, I see all kinds of other removal strategies put forward. Borax only takes a year…and I had to be a severe case as the destruction Brought me close to death 5 times in 5 different ways. I haven’t seen another strategy that is a thorough as Borax. Some are more intense and more difficult to tolerate. Borax is cheap and easy to do.

      Well, I’ll respond to other posts on other treatments separately.

      John Taylor The Healthy Truth.

      • Barbara Arnold October 10, 2020 at 4:57 am Reply

        Hi John,
        Interesting post. I would caution about detoxing, this needs to be done very carefully as to much at a time can make you feel quite ill. I think its good to detox as long as you do it slowly and with care. I have read other floxies say this.
        I recently had some more ozone therapy and I had a massive detox on the first and third session. I felt extremely ill and couldn’t stop shivering, also my urine was brown. After a day I fully recovered and felt great. I didn’t go for any more ozone after the third one because I couldn’t go through that again. Ive had ozone in the past with only a mild herx, or detox, but this time it was different. Our bodies change all the time, and maybe this was a factor. I just wanted to mention this in case it happens to anyone else so they will know what is happening and they will be okay.

    • John Taylor October 9, 2020 at 11:17 pm Reply


      I re read your post after responding.

      I had dry scaly skin for a while. It kept peeling the top layer off over and over again. It helped to remove age spots and other thing as my skin kept replacing itself. However the itching had to go and I realized Topical Magnesium Chloride helped. Then I had sore back muscles and realized MgCl helped. Topical was messy and I needed to do it frequently. So, I added it to my foot soak and soaked daily For hours at a time to raise the Mg CL overall. It took several weeks before I brought my MgCl level up to get rid of the sore back muscles. It also improved the balancing muscles in my right leg and MY SKIN.

      I have had eczema for 50 years. No more. I think three things gave it the bump’ s rush. My Vitamin D levels increased from 5 to 30 and I am sleeping very deeply very often. Exposing the eczema to a UVB sun lamp is required as it make Vitamin D right in that area. I eat coconut until my skin feels oily. 6 spoonfuls a day to start. I also rubbed wet MgCl salt directly on the eczema. Every so often the top layer would get soft and I’d rub off about an 1/8” of the callus. It took 2 months of raising MgCl with daily foots soaks to raise the salt level and in those two months the eczema disappeared.

      Slow wound healing is a symptom of diabetes. If your fasting glucose level is above 110, that should be addressed anyway. But wound healing is also slowed by inadequate Vitamin D and magnesium. As these two are flushed out our bodies by Fluroquinolones, I suspect that.

      Hope this helps you.

      John Taylor The Healthy Truth.

  21. Don M October 7, 2020 at 8:18 am Reply

    John Taylor…… Comment on this. PEMF (PEMF stands for Pulsed Electromagnetic Field) PEMF among many other things/benefits will kill bacteria. For those who are new to it and have not heard about PEMF before … https://www.drpawluk.com/education/magnetic-science/new-pemf-start/
    I add this because it very well could be a replacement for drugs/antibiotics for many. I use PEMF regularly.

    There is also light therapy from light bulbs, light panels and Cold Laser instruments. All these use the light spectrum of red and/or infrared light.

    Just bringing up alternatives to PILLS.

    • John Taylor October 9, 2020 at 10:38 pm Reply

      Don M,

      I don’t have direct experience with PEMF But I can tell you a little about its mechanism. It moves electrons around. Violently enough shall we say so it will facilitate chemical restructuring. Restructuring destroys the toxins you want to remove. It also must destroy things you want to keep but we rebuild those things and the treatment is well studied and adjusted to minimize this.

      For bacteria I use high doses of Vitamin C 3-5000 milligrams daily. If I get cut, I soak the wound in Vodka. That kills bacteria on contact. It soaks through the skin so it deep cleans. Even though I still am diabetic, aggravated by Cipro, any wound heals in a matter of days – no bacteria.

      For viruses I use L-Lysine and zinc. I also eat coconut oil – 2 to 6 spoonfuls daily. 2 every day regardless. 6 when I think I may have a virus. Coconut oil is antiviral and removes moles from your skin. Borax is also theoretically very effective for viruses. I am sure these things have helped me avoid CV19 even though I am 72 living in a compromised body until 6 weeks ago and I risk CV19 exposure every day as I drive for LYFT. I have not contracted it yet.

      I am glad PEMF works. I would like to know how it compares to Borax. If you still are a Floxie a year after using it, give the Borax a try. If it cured you from being a Floxie in 3 months then that is a big step forward and probably worth the cost if one can afford it.

      So I’d like to hear more about your experience.

      John Taylor. The Healthy Truth

      • Don M October 10, 2020 at 6:33 am Reply

        John Taylor……… Have you looked at the Bob Beck Protocol? https://www.bobbeck.com/pdfs/beck-protocol-handbook.pdf
        His theory is based on PEMF. Electrocute the bad bugs. Bacteria are more subject to the pulsed electric currents than human cells.

        • Don M October 10, 2020 at 6:38 am

          John Taylor…… I am about to embark on your method of eliminating being toxed. I am not sure at 86 and after over 30 years of being foxed that I can really eliminate it all but it is sure worth a try because nothing else has helped me turn the corner.

        • John Taylor October 12, 2020 at 2:11 am

          Hi Don M,

          If you have been a Floxie for 30 years, it is the other antibiotics and biocides holding you back.

          Cipro has a natural half life of 56 week or 5 years to reach 3%. Of course if you eat meat you are acquiring more all the time.

          Azithromycin has a half of over 10 years. Essentially it never leaves.

          Borax is the easiest way I a know to remove it. I’d would like to hear how long it takes you to feel any benefit. For me it was 2 weeks.

          I think,if you follow the protocol you will live to be 100 at least.

          Good luck. I am putting 10/26 on my calendar.

          John Taylor

      • Don M October 12, 2020 at 5:38 am Reply

        John Taylor……….. My last association with a Fluoroquinolone was 3 years ago. I thought it was the flu and ended up feeling so bad that I went to the ER. There it was determined that I had a UTI and immediately the ER doctor ordered an IV bag with Levaquin in it. 500 mg. Using the ruse of “possible pneumonia” I was kept and admitted to the hospital. I say ruse because my PC later said that the problem was because I have a slight case of COPD. For the next 30 hours blood was drawn every 4 hours. After the draw I would receive a drink and a pill. Finally after being woke up at 3 AM for another blood draw I said “what the he** is going on”! This brought 4 more people into the room to calm and deal with the unruly old man. I was informed that what they were trying to do was to raise my “magnesium” level because it was low. The frequent blood draws were because they didn’t want me to have to much magnesium. I then informed them that I would be leaving the hospital by 8 AM with or without discharge orders. I made good on my word. I came home and started by regimen of Cipro and Amoxicillin concomitantly which I took for the next 10 days. Yes I stopped the UTI. I have kept Cipro and Amoxicillin (curtesy of a cooperative doctor) at home incase of a UTI emergency.
        Through some “expert” lab work by a friend I found that I actually had a compound UTI infection. EColi and Enterococcus. The Cipro (contrary to all the doctors beliefs) would not kill off the (gram positive) Enterococcus. They would seesaw me back and forth between the 2 antibiotics which would never kill off either of the bugs. I asked why not both at the same time? They would not agree to this but eventually I did it anyway and it worked.

        It was not until this last episode had transpired that I went to the Internet and began to read the truth about Fluoroquinolones. I finally had some answers to the things that had been going on for many years. Answers that I had never heard from a doctor. I realized that I was floxed. Since the Levaquin things have gotten progressively worse.
        I need to turn things around!!!
        Yes……… The bottom line is that I have done it to myself because of my ignorance and trust in doctors.

        • John Taylor October 12, 2020 at 8:51 pm

          Don M,

          Fluroquinolones are removed by soaking your feet in Saturated Epsom salts. Adding Magnesiun Chloride is even better. You Want to do this 15 minutes a day for at least fours days. However, since you are now a Floxie all the other antibiotics and roundup you taken or ingested free with your food must be removed. This is done with a daily once of Borax in water. It will take a while 8 to,10 months.

          Doctors don’t know everything and their protocol,did not kill the infection.Yours did. You are not dumb but alive. Now you need to take the antidote which the doctors don’t know either.

          Thank God
          For Lisa’s blog. \

          John Taylor

  22. Michael October 8, 2020 at 5:45 pm Reply

    Hi all

    I’d just like to follow-up from my post last week and say I am now almost 100% confident that what has caused my flare up was B6 toxicity.

    I can’t believe that I’ve had both floxing and B6 toxicity but it has to be true.

    Reason I say this is because I stopped all my B supps and within a week I am back at my baseline where I was a month ago and feeling like I was nearing the end of this.

    So it could be a coincidence but I’ve done some research on this now and it seems to be another epidemic a la floxing.

    There are people on FB groups reporting poly neuropathies with real low doses. UK had the upper limit as 10mg/day for supps and other places at 25mg/day.

    Yet otc supps have doses as high as 100mg (what I was taking at times) alternetimg sometimes with 50mg p-5-p.

    I just don’t believe this… but at the same time I’m glad I’ve figured it out.

    So I’m going for low B6 diet and won’t be touching any B6 for now. I will take my B12 though.

    Be aware everyone.

    • Michael October 8, 2020 at 6:15 pm Reply

      At this point I’m assuming I have some sort of metabolic ‘abnormality’ in one of my detox pathways that predisposed me to the Floxing and the B6 mild toxicity

    • Virginia October 12, 2020 at 7:35 pm Reply

      I’m sorry about your B6 toxicity. I have long heard that up to 50 mg. a day is safe for most people, but you might indeed have a metabolic abnormality in that way. We are all so different, and sadly what works for one might not for another. I’m concerned that some practitioners, like Trudy Scott, nutritionist, says that B6 in the low hundreds is safe; I’m not at all sure it is. Overdose can lead to neuropathy. I think B6 is the only B vitamin that can be dangerous in overdose. Hard to believe that upper dose might be as low as 10 mg/day, but some people might truly have to go that low.

      • Michael October 13, 2020 at 12:35 am Reply

        Thanks. Yeah it’s a funny one. Obviously some people are more susceptible than others. But that’s the whole thing with floxing too right? Just because it’s “rare” doesn’t mean it’s not a real problem for many people. And more so than we think. Facebook groups are full of people saying they’ve had B3 toxicity. I was probably averaging around 50mg day for about a year which you would think was so much ….

  23. Dee October 13, 2020 at 7:52 am Reply

    John Taylor, how much borax to how much water do you use each day? Do you drink it slowly throughout the day? Any side effects from borax? I’m assuming it is a small amount so probably pretty safe? Is there a point when you know you can stop drinking it? Any signs of improvement etc?? I am over 3 years out and “mostly” recovered except for this damn eczema that developed a year ago! I wish I could get that to go away! Argh!!!

    • John Taylor October 13, 2020 at 5:26 pm Reply

      Hi Dee,

      I put two teaspoons in a quart of water and chug 1 ounce Daily. As it removes all organic chemistry, I take it first thing in the morning and wait until 8 PM for all my supplements. It took me 9 months to remove all the toxins. There are no sign effects except it can remove the supplementation. I just felt better after two weeks and I felt fully Floxie free after 8 months.

      Now being Floxie free I find the repair rate with supplements is 10 times faster. Too fast For some things for the Vitamin D and Magnesium to keep up. I am still experimenting with my protocol to deal with this. I need to balance three things. Supplements to lower blood glucose below 170, Borax to remove toxins – removing azithromycin lowers blood glucose, and thyroid booster which raises blood glucose. Right now I do not take Borax or the thyroid supplement. I am waiting for the glucose supplements to drive the readings below 170 and see if a glucose stabilizes at a new lower Number. So after waiting 8 days the glucose is going down. When it stabilizes lower, then I will start the Borax Only again. I want see of Borax drives the glucose lower, If not, then I don’t need Borax for repairs. When the Borax effect steadies out I will take one thyroid pill. One pill has been driving up my blood glucose 36 points in 16 days. I will start the Borax without other supplements and see the effect on my glucose.If It drives it lower, I know I still need to remove Azithromycin. I have been cycling the thyroid and diabetes Supplements for 10 months now. I am up to 1/14th the normal dose and my thyroid is getting better.

      I don’t have eczema any more. Eating Coconut oil, raising my vitamin D level, using a sun lamp on the eczema spot, and rubbing the spot with MgCl And coconut oil I think Is responsible for that. Every once in awhile 1/8 layer of callus just rubs off.

      Raising your Vitamin D level is too complicated for blog writing. It takes 50 pages in the book to get to that point. That is why I wrote the book. Overall the book has 92 pages of instructions.

      Best Wishes,

      John Taylor The Healthy Truth

      • Don M October 13, 2020 at 5:58 pm Reply

        Dee…………. Get the book. Most everything that you might ask is already answered there. Download the kindle reader for computers and then download the book to your computer. You can then refer to it anytime you want.

  24. cannabidiol capsules October 15, 2020 at 6:54 am Reply

    Sharing this with colleagues.

  25. Fred S October 28, 2020 at 5:58 am Reply

    John Taylor – thank you for the comments and advice. One question, why not take Boron via trace minerals rather than Borax?

    • John Taylor October 29, 2020 at 1:26 am Reply

      Fred S,

      Good question.

      Here is where the English language fails to speak in Chemistry. I do not know specifically enough what “Boron via trace minerals” means. So I can’t look at a specific compound to form an opinion. Don’t take this personally it is a problem chemists often face. If you watch chemists talk they often will make drawings or use calculations to explain an idea. There are a handful of boron containing minerals with other elements Sodium, Magnesium, Iron to choose from. Most of these have larger chemical structures Which plays a role in reaction rates. To find one potentially better than borax could take me 8 hours or so. Borax was recommended to me by my Natural Doctor And I googled 3 or 4 articles to get a handle on the chemistry and why it works. Honestly, it would be nice to find something that works faster and still is safe. Borax takes 8 to 12 months to remove the azithromycin you have accumulated over a life time of eating turkey sandwiches. But faster is going in the direction of more toxic.

      A lethal dose of Borax is about 1/7th of a box if consumed in a few days. The dosage recommended is two spoonfuls in 30 days. You can feel a reduction in the Floxie feeling immediately but it took 2-3 weeks before I saw a reduction in my blood glucose level from removing azithromycin. I thought about uping the dosage to three spoonfuls per month, but thought that is arrogant and risky to think I could improve on the recommendation like the authors never though of that. Yeah don’t qget stuck on yourself.

      Maybe combined with another mineral it would work faster but I doubt it…and Borax is cheap, readily available, and easy to use. Here is why I think that it would be tough to beat.

      The Boron atom In water is an acid, very powerful and will destroy Double bonds and cut chemistry into pieces. It has three positive sites to attract electrons and they are as close to the nucleus as is possible. The problem is it will destroy cells and their components also very quickly. It has a very high attraction for electrons. This is why it is so destructive. It is a toxin. A bottle of Boric acid says NOT FOR INTERNAL USE. We use it to clear eye infections as an eye wash and you are supposed to rinse your eye afterwards.

      Borax mutes this attraction with a double bond structure of 4 boron atoms and 7 oxygen atoms that allows the electrons to circulate anywhere. The boron atoms being so strongly negative draws the electrons to it. They hang out at the Boron nucleus longer – muting the positive attractive force.

      Well, the other Mineral compounds Include Magnesium and calcium which could have double bond ring structures but I couldn’t find any structures on-line. They were all larger. Larger is less soluble. Borax has 4 positive Sites. One will attach at a double bond site And the other three are available to attract water and be soluble. Now smaller Is really better as you want the soluble part to pull On the chemical you are trying to remove and break it apart. At that point Azithromycin or Roundup is no longer Toxic and it is game over.

      So why does borax selectively destroy these chemicals and not other cells. The toxic chemicals are much bigger. The human body doesn’t need to make things this big. Plus these chemicals are attached to the surface of our cells. So the borax will see them first.

      Well, the book is not filled with this detail of chemistry. There recommendations are supported by references where you may find some of this to support the experimental findings. Rather the book focuses the various cures need to progress through recovery path. First is to remove the toxins, then to rebuild. The rebuilding has a sequence and chemistry/supplement to rebuild are wasted if taken out of sequence. Plus sign posts so you know when to increase of stop a supplement. As you repair your body back to the original design, you lose weight and will eat less. The savings by not taking supplement long term and eating were more useful calories pay for the book many times over as you eliminate diabetes caused by Fluroquinolones a bad have a more productive life. Once you.have removed a lifetime of toxins, repairs occur 10,times faster with 1/4 of the supplements. Any of these finding are novel and not in the public discussion. They are powerful and should be further supported by University research.Diabetes and arterial sclerosis top the list for funding.

      I hope this answers you question. The blog has caused me to add chapters and improve the content so a second edition is in the works including a paperback version. It is now a amazon ebook kindle Version.

      John Taylor The healthy truth

      • Dee October 29, 2020 at 6:18 am Reply

        John Taylor. I looked back in your comments and I see that out of the 2 teaspoons per quart of water you take “1 ounce” per day. I had not started the borax yet so I’m glad I clarified that before I drank too much!

        • John Taylor October 29, 2020 at 5:32 pm


          Glad you didn’t try to eat two teaspoons of Borax. I suspect it wouldn’t stay down.

          John Taylor The Healthy Truth.

      • Fred S October 29, 2020 at 3:58 pm Reply

        Thank you. It’s hard for me to get past the fact that borax is a cleaning product used for decades and it is now being suggested as a product to ingest. Not criticizing – just hard for me personally.

        • John Taylor October 29, 2020 at 5:58 pm

          Fred S,

          I think your reluctance is natural. When my natural doctor told me to take Borax, I had similar fears. However, he saved my life with his advice, and has helped me solve about half the problems I encountered while working to get over being a Floxie, so Basically I trust him and would give any recommendation a shot.

          At first I could not use it as it aggravated my ulcer. However when I knew I had to remove azithromycin before it killed me. My blood sugar was 280 and I was losing my eye site and my feet were close to ulcerating Which would lead to amputation. So I started doing research on how to remove azithromycin. The product literature said it effectiveness is reduced with Aluminum+++. Nice, that is toxic so your not going to take it anyway and everything that contained Al+++ has been take off the market. So I looked at the periodic table for suggestions and that let to Borax. As my ND had earlier recommended this I gave it whirl. 8 months later I am not a Floxie.

          Thanks for directing me to that article. It says boron is a trace element we need. Borax will not provide boron to the our bodies. It has reacted and is part of a compound that is not going to release it easily. I work to solve problems only. If I push up on a problem I can’t solve, I’ll check more about the role of Boron. By the way Arsenic is a required trace element too. I’d be hesitant to take it. There is a book “Arsenic and Old Lace” . Old Lace is a wine and the people in this house wanted to off and old man. So they put Arsenic in the wine. He got healthier and lived a lot longer. Still I am not tying it.

          While slow, I think Borax is a good choice for removing all the other classes of anti-biotics and Roundup.

          I love this blog. it has helped me a lot and is still teaching me things.

          John Taylor

      • Fred S October 29, 2020 at 4:05 pm Reply

        Found this online – interesting. At the end of the article it mentions taking a boron supplement in lieu of borax.

        • John Taylor October 29, 2020 at 6:09 pm


          I am not sure a or maybe I should say I would guess a Boron supplement would not be as effective in dissolving the toxic chemicals off the surface of our cells. Borax has a positive ion that is directed out Into the water phase when another boron atom attaches to the chemical. A mineral supplement is more likely to chelate or Permanently bond with other Negative sites on a different molecule and not be soulabe. That means it would only remove chemistry in solution .. turn it into a powder as opposed to attacking the chemistry on the surface of the cell.

  26. Dee October 29, 2020 at 6:13 am Reply

    John Taylor. I thought you said to put 2 teaspoons of borax in a quart of water per day? Your last response said 2 spoonfuls per month?? Could you clarify please?

    • John Taylor October 29, 2020 at 6:12 pm Reply

      Don has done this well below but I’ll give it another go.
      Dissolve 2 teaspoons in a quart of water.
      Drink on ounce of this solution every day.
      In 32 days you will have taken the 2 teaspoons.

      • Don M November 2, 2020 at 6:18 am Reply

        John Taylor…….. Comment on this…… https://www.earthclinic.com/borax-remedy-for-arthritis.html In this article they appear to be recommending a 1/4 teaspoon daily. That is a much stronger mix than you are recommending using. In the article using Borax sounds like a big benefit for several things that plaque floxies.

  27. Don M October 29, 2020 at 9:46 am Reply

    From the book……….Removal Protocol Dissolve two teaspoons of Borax in a quart of water. Drink an ounce daily.

    Taylor, John. The Healthy Truth: Supplements and Dosage Signposts Used to Repair my Cipro Damage with Implications for Chemo Fatigue, Diabetes, Heart Fatigue, Weight Loss, Arthritis, Tendonitis… (pp. 21-22). Kindle Edition.

    • Fred S October 29, 2020 at 4:18 pm Reply

      Don – have you tried the protocol? Thanks

    • John Taylor November 5, 2020 at 2:43 pm Reply

      Hey Don M,

      Thanks for your new reference. I learned several,things. Love this blog.

      First I learned that boron is part of our bone structure and apparently Borax helps. I am not a fan of Boron salt supplements due to the risk of toxicity from over dosing. I prefer Borax.

      Well, you’re right they are recommending 4 times more than what I use, but it is spread throughout the day. There is a complexity to using borax that is individual specific and will change over theme. Borax will remove all unnatural chemistry including Vitamins and organic supplements. At toxic levels Borax removes tissue you want to keep.

      I’d say there are three Borax treatment levels now. The 4X level is probably appropriate when you know you need to remove something quickly. When azithromycin had brought my blood glucose level to over 280 and had diabetic destruction going on, that would a time to go 4X for a while. Since it is your blood stream all day long, taking anything else like the b vitamins is just a waste. Borax will remove them. Plus they will consume Borax that would be removing the azithromycin.

      When you are out of that danger zone, then switching to an ounce a day 0f a stronger solution like 2 teaspoon in a quart would be approached. I would take that first thing in the morning. Let it work for 8 hours, and then supplement in the afternoon. This is what I did and it took me 8 months to no longer be a Floxie.

      When I became Floxie free – all toxics had been removed to the point where repairs go faster than than the toxic distruction, I have switched to taking Borax only for a week and supplement only for 3 weeks. I find this speeds repairs.

      I have been not-a-Floxie for 3 months now. I am finding I can’t keep up with my body’s demand for Magnesium Chloride even if I soak 15 minutes in the morning and an hour or two at night. I have to limit my Vitamin D by UBV light to avoid sore muscles. I take very little supplements now and just let my body heal what it wants. I am always short on magnesium while things I didn’t know needed repair get better.

      After reading your article I am going to drink the quart a day when I do Borax for the week.

      The Borax article makes other claims. Osteoarthritis for example is more complex than just borax. You Ned to start with collegen, vitamin D combined with MSM, glucosamine, and K2. I am sure the book has a better protocol.

      So thanks Don for improving the protocol.

      John Taylor

    • John Taylor November 5, 2020 at 3:31 pm Reply

      Hello Don M,

      Your new reference taught me several things. Love this blog.

      First I learned that boron is part of our bone structure and apparently Borax helps. I am not a fan of Boron salt supplements due to the risk of toxicity from over dosing. I prefer Borax.

      Well, you’re right they are recommending 4 times more than what I use, but it is spread throughout the day. There is a complexity to using borax that is individual specific and will change over theme. Borax will remove all unnatural chemistry including Vitamins and organic supplements. At toxic levels Borax removes tissue you want to keep.

      I’d say there are three Borax treatment levels now. The 4X level is probably appropriate when you know you need to remove something quickly. When azithromycin had brought my blood glucose level to over 280 and had diabetic destruction going on, that would a time to go 4X for a while. Since it is your blood stream all day long, taking anything else like the b vitamins is just a waste. Borax will remove them. Plus they will consume Borax that would be removing the azithromycin.

      When you are out of that danger zone, then switching to an ounce a day 0f a stronger solution like 2 teaspoon in a quart would be approached. I would take that first thing in the morning. Let it work for 8 hours, and then supplement in the afternoon. This is what I did and it took me 8 months to no longer be a Floxie.

      When I became Floxie free – all toxics had been removed to the point where repairs go faster than than the toxic distruction, I have switched to taking Borax only for a week and supplement only for 3 weeks. I find this speeds repairs.

      I have been not-a-Floxie for 3 months now. I am finding I can’t keep up with my body’s demand for Magnesium Chloride even if I soak 15 minutes in the morning and an hour or two at night. I have to limit my Vitamin D by UBV light to avoid sore muscles. I take very little supplements now and just let my body heal what it wants. I am always short on magnesium while things I didn’t know needed repair get better.

      After reading your article I am going to drink the quart a day when I do Borax for the week.

      The Borax article makes other claims. Osteoarthritis for example is more complex than just borax. You Ned to start with collegen, vitamin D combined with MSM, glucosamine, and K2. I am sure the book has a better protocol.

      So thanks Don for improving the protocol.

      John Taylor

      • Don M November 5, 2020 at 7:40 pm Reply

        John Taylor……. For magnesium have you looked at ReMag from Dr. Dean? It is a liquid that has been through a process to make the molecules smaller. Her selling point is that being a liquid of very small molecules it bypasses the digestive system and goes directly to the blood stream. So one does not have the loose stool or diarrhea problem. It also gives a higher percentage of magnesium per dose. Taste is not easy to get past but I found a recommendation on a website that said to mix it with a small amount of liqueur and it covered the taste. I chose a 1 oz. shot of Bailey’s Irish Cream with the ReMag and about 4 ounces of water. It appears to work to some degree.

        There are so many angles that it is hard to pick a path to follow.

        • John Taylor November 11, 2020 at 5:59 am

          Don M,

          I am a fan of Dr. Dean but not remag. The idea that the crystal size is important with something as soluble as Magnesium Chloride is hard for me to swallow. Pun intended..and then there is the cost. I think this is just a play for the bucks. If there is a difference, it has to be small.

          Now my recent experience with a need for large amounts of Magnesium Chloride tips the balance on this question. Since becoming “not a Floxie” mid August, I have needed to increase my intake of Magnesium Chloride significantly to keep my back from being sore. My spine can hurt and cause me to stoop. I used to keep up with Magnesium demand by soaking one foot is a cold MgCL and Epsom salt bath a couple times a week for 15 minutes or so. Now I have to soak both feet in a heated bath for as much time as I have to sit and type – a hour each day at least. Plus when ever my skin gets itchy, I apply MgCl solution right on that spot.

          My body is repairing lots of things without any help from symptom specific supplements now. Magnesium uptake is its limiting effect. I make Vitamin D solely from my UVB lamp. If I use that for 15 minutes my back gets sore in about 24 hours. So,I wait a few days to recover and do it again. When I am not doing the Borax I take Magnesium, Taurate, gluconate, Malate pills daily. These do not cause diarrhea and prevent kidney stone formation.

          I have been taking Borax at a high dosage 4X or 1/4 teaspoon a day for a week. I feel a difference in the things my body needs to repair or things I was not aware of until they felt better. I have two metrics that guide these decisions. I graph my temperature to monitor hypothyroidism and I graph fasting blood glucose. My temperature has gone up about a degree, still 1.2 degrees low, in the last two,days. I was going to stop the Borax today but now will continue to see the temperature plateau. The glucose is slower to respond. It will take two or three weeks before it shows on the graph, but I the feeling signposts say yes. I have more daily energy, I don’t wake up at night and have to eat something to go back to sleep. I am stronger. I can jog with a comfortable stride. I want to measure the rate of decline in the glucose readings. That will take several weeks.

          Specifically what am I doing? I dissolve 1/4 teaspoon in about 10 ounces and sip it often. It is too strong for my stomach so I take water as needed. I may not finish the bottle but top it up for the next day. I drink mango purée and take tums for my stomach. In just a week this problem has gotten less and I have finished the bottle twice now. So I take as much Borax as my stomach can tolerate. I feel,no,adverse effects elsewhere, rather I feel improvements in thing I used to supplement. I take no supplements while on Borax.

          You are right there are so many choices. Learning from others is what this blog is about.

          John Taylor The Healthy Truth

      • Don M November 6, 2020 at 6:28 am Reply

        John Taylor…. About how to be taking the Borax. Your original recommendation was to mix 2 teaspoons of Borax in a quart of water and drink 1 ounce a day. You commented about not taking any supplements for several hours because the Borax would render them ineffective so they were wasted. Also it would be decreasing the effectiveness of the Borax. The protocol in the article recommended putting 1/4 teaspoon full in a quart of water and drinking it through out the day. If one were to chose this protocol over your original 1 ounce per day when could the supplements be worked into the protocol without rendering them useless and causing the Borax to work on them rather than detoxing?

        • John Taylor November 11, 2020 at 6:29 am

          Don M,

          Your question about when to go back to supplements is probably inidividual. Originally I was going to Boarax for a week without supplements and then supplement for 3 weeks. However now I Intend to Borax at the 4X level until both my temperature and glucose graphs plateau. That could be at least two weeks more. However, if I feel something start to go backwards, I’ll stop. So far the feeling guidance has been better that supplements I were.

          When I became a Floxie no,more, I knew the rate of destruction was reduced to less than the rate of rebuilding. The question was how much more toxins are there to remove. How will I,know when I am there?

          Your article effected a major improvement in my protocol. Mathematically it has the potential to reduce the detox time from 9 months to 9 weeks. However as the Borax is not being consumed by supplements, it should be even less.

          All Floxies have their blood glucose and metabolism compromised. I am feeling both get better. The data is stronger for thyroid function. I feel my face flush and my temperature will be peaking at that time. It lasts for a while, like my thyroid is sputtering on and off. So I am pretty sure I’ll know when I can back off on Borax. I may never restart most of the supplements if my body just repairs itself with what is available from food. I’ll have to push up on a problem once my magnesium demand is no longer limiting.

  28. Don M October 29, 2020 at 6:12 pm Reply

    Fred S……….. I am working on it but not very far into it yet so I can’t say much about success yet.

  29. Juju November 6, 2020 at 2:36 am Reply

    First let me start by thanking you guys, particularly John for your dedication to this blog.

    3 years ago I was crushed by a car in Cambodia, as I was busy (or rather un busily) recovering in bed from the crushed leg I started to develop swollen testicle tubes weeks after. The doctors just presumed it was Sexually transmitted (as i was a tourist in s.e asia) and i was injected with god knows what by one guy in a provincial hospital, the problem persisted so another in the city gave me azithromicin, the more opinions i got the more drugs i got. I eventually returned home to the western world and was diagnosed with varoceceles and epididymtis to remove the infection they gave me ciprofloxican, I returned to Cambodia and after a year it flared up again. I now know that they swelled again because varicoceles will effect me for life and especially in hot temperatures NOT the orginal infection. But at the time i was in so much pain I invested in more Cipro cause it was given to me last time, these drugs are available over the counter here. Stupid in hindsight I know to self diagnose but the agony is so severe id literally do anything. after a week or so of religious timekeeping swallowing those horrible drugs my shoulder tendons started twitching and felt like they would snap so I stopped taking (sadly not immediately.)

    Since then ive had a seizure a year after but until now thought it was unrelated. its 3 years later and im trying to resume bodybuilding (i have a tendency to overtrain) and the tendons have started twitching again in my shoulder. I was all set to start doing tendinopathy and tendintis rehab when it dawned on me that it is lasting effects of those awful drugs and im just masking over the symptoms not tackling the problem. (I have had shoulder impingement in my right shoulder before and can tell the difference in pain, my left shoulder feels like the ligaments just arent the same)

    John your straw that broke the camels back comment has really hit home with me thanks. Also the turkey comments because as a bodybuilder with limited funds the most cost efficient diet to supplement is chicken chicken chicken and more chicken and although i was aware they are pumped with antibiotics I never appreciated what that meant until this blog connected the dots.

    I was feeling pretty down but compared to other peoples stories about losing teeth and achilles tendons rupturing etc i feel like my situation in comparison isnt soo bad (sorry to take consolidation from your misery guys)

    Im 30 years old and have lived an athletes lifestyle with a very clean diet for 15 years and steered clear from any medicines so I guess maybe that has helped keep my symptoms to a minimum.

    It is very depressing to me the thought that my bodybuilding days are numbered because of a drug, the ‘theory’ that it is DNA damage to mitochondria which may even be replicating has now left me utterly devastated. Now im afraid to train, and weight training has been my life.

    Living in a 3rd world country Im not entirely sure how on earth I can acquire the many supplements and salts recommended but I shall endevour to try (when i get paid.. COVID has kept everyone here locked down for months)

    You said you have completely recovered from being ‘floxed’ which has given me some inspiration but has anyone suffering from tendon damage seen any recovery from this or am I doomed for a life of avoiding shoulder exercises?? (which just about rules out most upperbody training :..(

    • Juju November 8, 2020 at 5:16 am Reply

      Having delved deeper into the rabbit hole I have completely changed my diet and am detoxing my system, switched to organic raw foods, purest water, etc etc and am all out supplements for Mitochondria repair, my issue is i feel like its a cancer in my body and its gonna slowly take over, The symptoms ive read other people have i feel i will experience at some point and I have resigned myself to the fact ive given myself Parkinsons disease at 30 years old. (My left hand occasionally moves involuntary, increased forgetfulness) My mums dad got Parkinsons disease and my dads brother has Parkinsons disease so its in my makeup. The rabbit hole is an evil reality and I cant help but believe there is a conspiracy to kill us quickly, or rather let us ‘choose’ to kill ourselves we can buy Evian for $3 or the fluoride one for 50 cent. We can buy grassfed meat for $50 or the antibiotic one for $5 etc etc etc. Every recommendation is pharmaceutical. I asked my Doctor friend researching cancer how much of his education was about diet his answer was: “extremely little.”

      That’s why nobody is talking about it because it opens pandoras box.

      Actually thanks to some great quotes I read here about accepting the new life I have had an epiphany that most people don’t get unless they are very elderly or have been given a terminally ill timeline.

      Even if I might not be able to reverse what i ingested I can prevent more from going in with my diet being meticulously clean, I wont touch another drug, these are positive changes for my life.. If it never would have happened I would have sleep walked towards the same outcome by ignorantly eating bad meat and bad eggs and taking pharma pills etc anyway. I got slapped with a huge dose and it has woken me up.

      We might be floxed but we wont be floxed again!!! Other people are microdosing on a daily basis and they just don’t appreciate what it means nobody truly understands fire until they get burnt.

      Imagine if somebody told you the date you were gong to die? What would you do with your time in between? What could such person achieve appreciating each day to that extent?
      Sulking and giving up is nonsensical, we aren’t born to die we are born to live and there is always something to live for.

      With these drugs and the smart technology it has become easier and easier for us to shut off our brains, how ironic that me thinking I have a brain rotting disease has switched mine ON. I believe we must keep learning and keep ourselves curious and have always something we endevour to improve on.

    • John Taylor November 8, 2020 at 10:20 pm Reply


      Good grief. Vericoceles is a weak valve problem, There are invasive and non-invasive surgical treaments. Star wars treatments are starting arrive. We don’t have Dr. McCoys scanner yet though.


      This is basically a muscle tissue strength issue and antibiotics will destroy muscle tissue. This is due to a magnesiun and Vitamin D theft caused by repairs needed elsewhere. However, Strength of muscle tissue can be increased quickly with medicines and herbs that push glucose into the muscles, If your muscles are glucose deficient, you can double the strength in a few days. Berberine (weaker) and Gymnema (stronger) are over the counter and if you see an improvement in a day or two or even a week, that identifies the Cipro/antibiotic/toxin cause.

      What was destroyed can be rebuit given the supporting nutrition. There is a sequence of restoration that is very important. Mitochomdria repair right now may not be efective as it is past removal and Vitamin restoration in the secquence. The book is cheap and will save the price of it over and over.

      Building muscle is chapter 9. The details of how to remove all tocins and restore Magnesium and Vitamin D levels are precursers to many repairs. However, muscle stregth you can start before reaching adequate VitaminD levels.

      I have recovered from tendonitis. At one point the tendons were so weak I couldn’t let my left hand half lose. The pain made me feel they were going to snap.I had to suport my left hand for about a week.

      Chicken in the US is oK. It has no antibiotics. Thailand I think about wild caught fish,
      That is hard to find in the US.

      My last blog was about the changes in toxin removal stimulated by questions from the blog.

      Keep your chin up. You have a good attitude. You found this blog. It saved my life and now I am trying to help others save theirs. I never though I would say “I am no longer a Floxie” but one day it happened. It can happen to you much faster than it took me.

      John Taylor The Healthy Truth.

      • Juju November 9, 2020 at 12:38 am Reply


        I cannot put into words what it means to me just to have someone respond, let alone give me such positive advice. Thank you with all my heart. I am stuck in Cambodia as I said and it is a lonely place when not a soul understands what you are going through. Antibiotics are non prescription over the counter and all water supplies are surely contaminated with bodily secretions, including the rivers (and fish?) I have done extensive research into how meat is farmed here and they are putting floxies and amoxicillin in the livestock, with no care over the timing of slaughter afterwards, Im trying to warn everyone I can but they think i am a hypochondriac, like i said illness is very lonely place.

        I have started the epsom salt baths and the supplements. But with more research has come more connecting of the dots and little aches and pains i have been ignoring have now become pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. I am not much of a drinker and drank recently and remember saying that my reaction to alcohol is different, I now enjoy it for about 30 mins before feeling hungover. I put it down to ageing but now there are no coincidences for me. Sleeping on my back i felt fatigue in my Achilles; until now i just ignored it. Last month I almost died of asphyxiation from pulminary aspiration just by swallowing water whilst walking. Last night I was doing stretches to my rhomboids and shoulders and have identified an issue with my spinal chord or maybe some nerve issue around there in doing so the twitches ive experienced in my shoulders i have noticed are actually happening all over my body. So I have either spinal nerve damage or brain damage or fibromalgyia – all documented on this blog as effects of cipro. Cut a long story short what I thought were little aches and pains and have been blissfully ignoring are all signs pointing towards the same issue, Id forgotten about taking Cipro.. like i say it was like 3 0r 4 years ago.. but the twitching in my shoulder was like a lightbulb in my head THAT FIRST HAPPENED ON THOSE ANTIBIOTICS!!

        Which brings me to this blog.. (and it appears to be in the process of saving my life too..) I can look around all day for curing symptoms, but the root cause you spelled out for me John is too many toxins in the body from antibiotic abuse.

        I have read there is no scientific evidence to support that the drugs are still in my cells, more that the cells DNA have been damaged so Im not sure what point there is in detoxification 3 years on (but im doing it anyway!)

        Im not sure what this means:

        “If your muscles are glucose deficient, you can double the strength in a few days. Berberine (weaker) and Gymnema (stronger) are over the counter and if you see an improvement in a day or two or even a week, that identifies the Cipro/antibiotic/toxin cause. ”

        What do you recommend here it isnt clear? Take them both? try the weak one then try the strong one? I don’t understand.

        You just said ‘the book’ what book? and I have no bank account so unless its in the local library it cannot help me.

        I just spent a huge chunk of my last salary on mitochonria repairing supplements and im starting to feel i cant go back to work so thats pretty disheartening to read that i just wasted my money.

        You said you were floxed and recovered but then months later your teeth fell out. How is that a recovery? Sorry to be rude. I appreciate you stopped further damage from occurring. I feel like without action I am just waiting for more of these symptoms to creep up on me and its petrifying to be honest. Especially because I have awoken to the fact I am having fully body twitches and spasms (3 years after ingestion). I originally commented because I was worried i couldn’t lift weights but further research and taking the time to listen to and explore my body it was the least of my worries!!! -Again thanks to everyone on this blog because I was sleepwalking with this problem!!

        • John Taylor November 11, 2020 at 7:05 am


          When the paper back publishes I’ll send you a copy it is much better written than one can do on a blog on the fly so to speak. There ar so many details in your questions I can’t cover them all at once here.

          No one will believe you. Your body is dissolving and no one understands that process. It is not taught. My daughter shuns this information. I am a voice crying in the wildness. We are all on our own. BUT together on this blog we have more than hope, we are now starting to defeat this curse. For me it also a blessing because now that I am growing healthier, I am sure I will live to be 100 plus. You will be surprised at how quickly you will recover.

          I have been thinking about Parkinson’s. If it was brought on by antibiotics. I believe it will be reversed. You basically grow younger and reverse that disease. My dad extended his life with biochemistry from 5 years to 26 after he was diagnosed. That was way before I knew our toxic condition and how to help him grow younger.

          There is scientific evidence that all antibiotics, roundup – an herbicide, and all other toxins we find in food stay in your body a long long time. Cipro is 5.5 years. Azithromycin is over 20.

          Fluroquinolones are fastest removed with Epsom salt. Every thing else requires Borax to remove. The latest protocol for Borax is on this blog. The expectation now is 9 to 12 weeks to tip the balance in your favor.

          Just do these two things Epsom salt and Borax.

          Why did my teeth get lose? In the first year I had removed only the Cipro. I didn’t know about the other toxins and the need to remove them. So, the destruction from the other toxins were still working and I still felt like a Floxie plus I made the mistake of continuing to eat and add to the toxic load. My ligaments were getting weaker and my teeth started to fall out. the destruction continued especially after I took azithromycin for the dental work. Diabetes was pushing me close to death before I started to remove Azithromycin thanks to a Natural Doctor. Once the toxins were reduced enough, supplements started to strengthen my ligaments. They are now tight and the infections gone. I held the infections a bay for 2.5 years by soaking my gums with Vodka and spitting it out.

          John Taylor

        • John Taylor November 11, 2020 at 6:16 pm

          Hi juju,

          Epsom salt baths will not remove Cipro. You need to have a saturated solution meaning there must be solid salt in the bottom of a pail that your foot can fit in.

        • Juju November 12, 2020 at 12:25 am

          Im not gonna post for a while because I need to step away from reading about this because the stress will kill me. Last night I had a panic attack which led to a seizure after explaining to my girlfriend she needs to leave me. She is 25 and stunningly beautiful she doesnt need to watch me deteriorate. Today I told my family and quit my job to hopefully return to my homeland. I will try to get someone to help me purchase your book online because I need all the advice I can get and you are worth the money my kind friend. Pseudoscience is all i have got at this stage as the ‘real’ science is bleak to put it mildly. I want it out out out! I bought epsom salt and soaked my feet in it for four days as per your instructions and advice online, now thats wrong.. solid solution of what when the salt dissolves in water?! Do you mean put it in with no water or put so much in it doesnt disolve? I wasted money and i have no money and soon no more money.

          I keep getting dysphagia HUGE WARNING SIGN. I have pain in thoracic spine HUGE WARNING SIGN. I have noticed i have gum disease and am going to the dentist today with the last of my cash, I am absolutely terrified they will fall out, Im nowhere near even 40, its horrifying.

          And yes everyone is shunning me, I have a 6 pack and full muscular physique people just think im being a hypochondriac, I have politely told them do your own research or have NO opinion. Of course the information isnt quite as interesting to a none sufferer.

          I really am grateful for your kind words of comfort and absolutely will stay in touch, but i am FREAKING OUT and need to calm down and de-stress somehow.

          Sorry I have lost my cool 😦

        • Virginia November 12, 2020 at 9:23 pm

          Juju, I’m very sorry about all you’re going through with Cipro. Dreadful about the panic attack and seizure! I’m not at all sure that Borax is a solution for Cipro (I’ve never heard of it recommended anywhere else for Cipro damage, and I’ve been reading about this problem for 6 years), though I think Epsom Salts and other forms of magnesium will help long term. If you can get a used copy of Dr. Jay Cohen’s “How to Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Disaster” and Kerri Knox’s e-book on FQs, there are lots of good tips there. They are both medical professionals, and have data to back up their advice. John Taylor has told us he has no medical background (we’re grateful for his honesty), so his advice may or may not help. You can also read the recovery stories on this site to see what different people tried for recovery: that is free info. I would feel sad if you made your girlfriend leave you; you might really need support right now. If she wants to stay and help, I hope you will let her. You are still young, so you do have a good chance of recovering! Recovery can be slow, but it usually doesn’t stay this bad forever. All of us on this site know you’re not a hypochondriac; the suffering is very real. Happened to me too, but now I’m much better, and I’m quite a bit older than you, so you will likely recover quicker. Please stay hopeful and know that time can help healing. Please learn some breathing and meditation techniques to help with the panic. I too am prone to anxiety, so I use them to stay calm. You don’t need to apologize; you haven’t hurt anyone, you’ve just vented which we all need to do at some point with this monster illness. You can and likely will get better.

  30. John Taylor November 8, 2020 at 9:02 pm Reply

    Hi All,

    Nine months after I became a Floxie and five months after I had removed the Cipro and Levaquin from my body, I pulled a tooth out tearing meat off a spare rib bone. After that I had loose teeth and root infections on my right molar and canine upper and lower sections. At one point I counted five teeth that could fall out of my mouth. I kept the infections at bay by soaking the gums in Vodka. I also used a soft bristle tooth brush to work the Vodka below the gum line. This is great way to kill gingivitis infections. As Vodka softens tarter it resolves that problem too.

    Two and a half years later when I was no longer a Floxie and my body was repairing and rebuilding all the things toxicity had destroyed this tooth problem remained. Rather than continue to control it, I visited my dentist for help in solving this problem. He said two things “Teeth are held in place by ligaments and you need a root canal on tooth 3.” Tooth 3 was the worst and once for a week I had to hold in place with my tongue. It had fallen 1/8” at this point and I was sure the nerve couldn’t stretch that much without breaking. So, it had to be infected and Vodka was never going to clear that infection.

    Well, I didn’t know that teeth are held in place by ligaments as I have no formal education about body structure since high school. I took the supplements to strengthen ligaments and tendons, including glucosamine and about three weeks later my teeth were tight. I told the endodontist my story and chose Cipro as the antibiotic I wanted to use as it is easily removed from your body in about four days whereas Azithromycin took 9 months.

    Thoughtlessly I continued to take Magnesium pills and four days later when the infection had improved but plateaued, I finally had the thought “You idiot you can’t take Magnesium and Cipro together. Your removing the Cipro.”

    Being exposed to 5 grams of Cipro was very damaging. I had lost muscle and was stumbling again as my balancing muscles were too weak to do their job. My skin was itchy with red scaly spots plus about 6 other symptoms. Blood glucose had shot up 20 points. My daily thyroid temperature graph went down another half a degree. My sleep pattern was erratic and I had to nap during the day. Maybe Cipro wasn’t the best idea. “Do you think?”

    Then I started the removal process by soaking both feet in a heated foot bath with Epsom Salts and Magnesium Chloride twice a day for as long as I have computer work to do. I rubbed Magnesium Chloride on my itchy skin and my arthritic/tendonitis hand. Bam gone. 24 hours later I am sleeping better, my temperature is up about 0.4 degrees, and I feel the diabetes effects are getting better.

    Would I choose Cipro again? I don’t know yet. I want to see the effect on the fasting glucose trend chart. That could take 3 weeks to begin to see the effect and I want to see how fast it declines. I also want to see the effect of this new Borax protocol. I am taking a 1/4 teaspoon in 10 ounces of water each day for a week and then go back to diabetes supplements for three weeks. I will change the number of Borax days per month to find an optimum amount of each treatment period. All this can take months. As the toxins continue to be removed, I suspect the amount of Borax I need with this high intensity protocol will go down. I know the weight of Borax I used to remove the toxins and doing it faster would be better. The question I face now is there any of the original stuff left and then how long does It take to remove this month’s accumulation.

    Which antibiotic will I use next time? Maybe I won’t face that question for another 28 years. At that point, may choose no treatments at all.

    My next blog will answer the questions you have posed that I didn’t cover here.

    John Taylor The Healthy Truth

  31. alvin walker November 9, 2020 at 3:47 pm Reply

    I cannot find an attorney who will accept my claim based on a severe reaction to the GENERIC brand of ciprofloxacin. I have incurred huge medical expenses and neuropathy issues. My email: alvinannp@aol.com.
    Thanks……Alvin M.Walker

    • John Taylor November 11, 2020 at 7:38 am Reply


      Finding an attorney is an issue. I tried until I realized how attorney’s business plan affects this. There are attorney’s who will take cases based on tendon rupture. Unless you have this they won’t take yours. The problem it is takes a lot work to win a case in a new area. It is one man against a corporate treasury. More work than they will get paid to do. It probably takes 4 or more cases to break even. So they need to see 20 cases or so before they will pick up a case. One they have won a case, the they turn the crank and successfully litigate the same case over and over.Wacker,win reduces the corporations will to fight.

      If you could get 20 people on this blog to join you particularly if they are willing to pledge $1000, you have a start. Then google attorneys tendon ruptures Cipro. You should find law offices in all major cities. NY has 3 probably, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, etc.

      I am not interested in joining a suit. If I settled ,I would have to agree to keep silent. rather, I wrote a book to help other Floxies. One of the ways to spread this knowledge is to go Urologists. Then place article co-authored in the New England Journal of Medicine. In this way I can reduce to effects of antibiotics. I don’t expect to make much money from the book. I am looking to help people. I also need to wait for the discussion on this blog to improve the book, so it becomes the Bible for reversing toxicity. The blog has in 2 months made major improvements for the second addition.

      Good luck,in your quest.

      John Taylor The Healthy Truth, an Amazon ebook

      • Tuula November 11, 2020 at 8:09 am Reply

        Hello John,

        In 2016 I took a 5 day course of nitrofurantoin for a UTI which I never had (cipro years prior)- since then it’s been 4.5 years of painful neuropathy, tinnitus (pulsatile & ringing), my entire body is like a toxic torture chamber, I’ve seen NDs, specialists, no help, my diet is what I believe has been the only thing that has kept me alive. I started your protocol… wondering if you have any advice… long ago in the past when I once took an epsom salt bath my muscles were in agony afterwards, recently now I took 2 full baths with about 1-2 cups of epsom salts and Mg chloride, as well as 500 mg Mg malate (which I had) orally for a few days…. muscles in legs hurt horribly and I developed 2 large dark bruises near my left knee. Following the second bath (stopped) I was spitting blood as I repeatedly rinsed my mouth after brushing my teeth (very unusual) I know it has something to do with the magnesium intake. How do you think I should proceed… are these results good or bad indications.

        Thank you, Tuula

        • John Taylor November 12, 2020 at 2:25 am


          It sounds like you are following the book if you are following my protocol. The book is 90 kindle pages with more detail and much better written than what can be done on a blog. This is why I wrote it. As a kindle, it is cheapest way to get that much information out. The healing follows a sequence.

          Nitrofuratoin has pushed you into several conditions. The bleeding seems to be the most serious and way outside my experience. I do not have the education of an MD or ND. I am only a good problem solver with a strong chemical,background. I would suggest you search for a doctor with hemophilia experience.

          First thing is to remove the Nitrofurantoin with Borax. The concentration of Magnesium required to do this is way too high for you to tolerate now. I suggest you start the borax toxic removal slowly also. make a solution of 2 teaspoons in a quart of water and take an ounce daily. If your stomach and digestive system tolerate this trying increasing it to a second ounce 12 hours later. Then an ounce every 8 hours. Then switch to 1/4 teaspoon in a quart that you sip all day long.

          If Borax is a problem decrease the dosage. Drink mango purée and oil – olive, avocado, and coconut oil. Drink Almond milk – it is oil and water..these coat the lining of the digestive track.

          Your bruise is internal bleeding. Wait to feel better from the Borax. 2 or 3 months if you can reach the 1/4 teaspoon level. Otherwise expect a longer process. You should feel some improvement in a couple of weeks.

          You need magnesium to live but salt obviously draws blood. Give the Borax a month before you start. You need to start slowly. Avoid magnesium chloride for now. While essential, it is a strong salt. Make a solution of Epsom salt 1/4 cup in a quart and apply a little on your skin. Apply to a sore muscle or an itchy spot our an arthritic joint. If see any bruising or bleeding cut back.

          I’ll stop,here.

          Neuropathy has several,causes. Loss of muscle strength is common for,Floxies.Do you know what is causing your neuropathy?

          Tinnitus is commonly caused by exposure to loud noises, but yours was chemically induced. I know several people where this is calcium crystal like a kidney stone that has formed in the ear’s which frequency sensor. It is a water filled canal with tiny hairs that sense the vibrations. This stone stimulates then. The treatment is to dissolve the stone by cycling the temperature up and down. Put a cotton ball,in your ear at night. Basically you are dissolv I get the outer layer when hot and reforming it when cold. Magnesium also helps as it makes the new layer more soluable.

          If you have been to an ND there must be a blood work up. What does that say about magnesium tissue levels?

          Hope this helps. Please post your progress.

          John Taylor

        • Tuula November 12, 2020 at 2:47 pm

          Hello John,

          Thank you very much for your reply! I have taken 4 doses of the borax mixture, no ill effect, the last two were today, I doubled up. My body needs help removing the toxins and/or is nutritionally deprived hence the neuropathy. Nerve conduction tests, biopsy indicate my nerves are fine. I have often asked neurologists if I have such healthy nerves then why do they sting, sizzle, burn in pain so much. I am baffled why no one can investigate this… something to do with magnesium, glucose?… like my nerves are being starved, or poisoned. I recently did notice something that hadn’t happened for some time, it is related to the recent magnesium supplementation or baths… my skin on my fingers went tight/shiny = increased lymphocytic infiltration (my immune system is reacting to the toxins?) also lower leg swelling (on/off in the past, poor toxin clearance?).

          I have bought your kindle book. I have seen numerous MD specialists in addition to 4 NDs, none have been of help, but I learn something each time. I have been able to have much testing, bloodwork, biopsies (bone, numerous skin), imaging (initially even paid for a PET/CT) done. To me it seems common sense that no one can be this sick and all tests be normal, so I pushed/am pushing to get to the truth. I have seen how this adversely affected/s my immune system (blood work), my body (biopsies), etc. What has helped keep this from developing into a far worse situation (this is pure hell as is), is diet and curcumin. I have the bloodwork and 4.5+ years of diary records to see for instance how ie: curcumin keeps the free light chain ratio from becoming abnormal, but also see it is not a solution. In the beginning when this all started it was like I was suddenly being electrocuted (by foods), stung by bees, explosive headaches for weeks, hands/feet on fire, muscles cramping or popping like a popcorn machine,… often nerves, muscles being attacked at night, sometimes waking up in spasms, or in bruises, lower leg swelling, etc. I have wasted money (in hindsight) on people who are ignorant and dangerous- test results, imaging do not lie ie: in one case how herbs can cause gallbladder polyps, and how if you stop the herbs, the body heals… my knowledge comes with diary keeping, numerous ongoing tests/imaging.. seeing the connections.

          I am super toxic, an ever so slight breakthrough came via coffee enema a few months ago, a very short moment of release from feeling super toxic, it is disappointing to see how ie: Mg malate, epsom salt baths, cause much muscle pain (when I had none before), bruising etc. this was even before learning about your protocol. It was the second (last) epsom salt/magnesium chloride bath that the gums bled but this fully resolved in 2 days… my body amazes me how it can survive and repair itself. It’s as if the magnesium can release toxins but then the toxins just stay, cause damage?, can’t be removed? Any insight, thoughts you have would be welcome. I agree with what you said… borax now, magnesium hold off till later… see how it goes. What causes neuropathy with floxies? My serum magnesium has always been good, any blood tests you or anyone could recommend for neuropathy, perhaps something I may haven’t had done… would magnesium erthrocytes, or zinc rbc be good, better? I did have low serum zinc once. My body is capable of recovery I just don’t know what it needs from me…. I eat a great organic diet… the Whal’s diet is one I recommend. I have low GGT so I am thinking this may have something to do with not being able to recover? I think the few abnormalities in regards to my immune system and those lymphatic infiltrates are all just an ongoing reaction to the toxins? I always have many questions? I never believed in taking pills, so ironic this happened to me! I’m on a mission to get my life back, and especially so I can help others close to me, be the mother my kids deserve.

          Listening to my body, trying to learn,

        • Virginia November 12, 2020 at 9:07 pm

          Hi Tuula, I’m really sorry for all your Cipro suffering. It’s sad that even seeing 4 NDs hasn’t helped. MDs are no use for this kind of thing, so I would keep trying with NDs till I found one who could help. I’m not sure I agree with John about borax (which I’ve never read about from any other Cipro advice-giver, and I’ve been reading hundreds of articles about this for 6 years), or about holding off with Magnesium. Just about every Cipro adviser I’ve read says to load your body with as much Magnesium as you can. Did you really get worse with Epsom Salt baths? That usually helps people. Try getting a used copy of Dr. Jay Cohen M.D.’s book on “How to Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe” or Kerri Knox RN’s e-book on FQ toxicity. You can also read the stories on this site about methods people used to get well. It sounds like you badly need to detoxify, since the coffee enemas helped. I’ve heard a lot of good about coffee enemas, though never tried them. You may want to try other tried and true detox methods such as far-infrared sauna, dry brushing, activated charcoal, or stronger methods. If you google detox, you’ll find a lot of things to try.

        • Virginia November 12, 2020 at 8:54 pm

          Hi John, you have certainly been very generous with your advice and responsive to a lot of folks!. I’m curious about your background though: you say you have no medical training, yet your Cipro advice sounds very definite, and yet it’s not something I’ve read anywhere else in my 6 years of researching Cipro toxicity solutions. In Dr Jay Cohen’s books on Cipro toxicity and Kerri Knox’s (RN) e-book on the same subject, I don’t recall Borax being mentioned anywhere as a solution, nor have I seen that mentioned on Floxie Hope by other posters. I’m wondering what you base your very detailed and specific medical advice on.

  32. Juju November 10, 2020 at 3:19 am Reply

    Hey Everyone,

    Just wondering if anyone has explored the option of doing breathe holds, seeing as though the on going damage to our bodies is being caused by oxidative stress and free radicals and breath holds are supposed to reduce free radicals?

  33. Blair November 11, 2020 at 10:11 am Reply

    John Taylor, good info, do you think the meat and poultry at Whole Foods Market is safe? They claim no antibiotics.

    • John Taylor November 12, 2020 at 1:29 am Reply


      I don’t know if Whole Foods has a special meat supply. However, the USDA forbids antibiotic use on chickens. So chickens only contain Roundup from the grains they eat. That is why free range chickens are supposed to be better. The best protein source is wild caught fish and no-antibiotic beef. You can get hamburger and steaks packaged in polyethylene bags. The beef is not that much more expensive. Turkey from any source in the US unless you are a hunter will have Azithromycin in it. I recommend not eating turkey. I also recommend you periodically remove this stuff with Borax.

      I only eat rice cereals to avoid Roundup.

      No antibiotic pork contains Cipro from the beef slaughterhouse scraps they are fed. They are not injected with antibiotics. If a pig gets sick he is removed from no antibiotic pen, treated and slaughtered and sold otherwise. I eat hot dogs for lunch even though I know they contain Cipro.

      Canned tuna fish is probably the best deal price wise.

      For most of us I think it is OK to eat what is available as a matter of what we can afford and then once a month take Borax to detox for a week. To me this is the practical solution. You just can’t completely avoid the toxins in our food supply. For example, do you eat bread, grains, vegetables – all have some level of toxins that stay in you until you become a Floxie and smarten up.

      John Taylor

      • Don M November 12, 2020 at 10:33 am Reply

        John Taylor…….. “I only eat rice cereals to avoid Roundup”. Just some comments. Brown rice is better than white. It is more nutritious because it is not as processed but the claim is that it has more arsenic in it than white. There are brown rice pastas available. Because they are rice they are gluten free.

        Sardines are lower on the food chain and are said to contain less bad things than tuna. Sardines packed in virgin olive oil are kind of a double whammy. You get the benefit of the fish plus the benefit of the olive oil. Great snack ……. if you like ’em. I buy ’em at Amazon in the 12 pack and they are delivered free. King Oscar brand, skinless and boneless.

  34. Blair November 12, 2020 at 12:10 pm Reply

    Thanks John Taylor. Whole Foods Market sells Plainville Farms turkey and chicken. Their web site and labels say:
    Never Ever Given Antibiotics
    Vegetarian Fed
    Humanely Raised†
    No Added Growth Hormones** and Steroids

    So I’m assuming it’s safe for us.

    How does one know if we have high Azithromycin levels in our body? Will any test show this?

    • John Taylor November 12, 2020 at 7:16 pm Reply

      Hi Blair,

      I am not aware of any tests for the presence of,toxins..The problem is they are stuck on the surface of our cells. You can feel a difference after 2-4 weeks of taking Borax.

      In the book,there is a description of measuring the amount of Fluroquinolones removed with magnesium by measuring the amount of excess powder in the ursine when you start the removal process. The other toxins leave with your stools. Good luck finding them.

      John Taylor

    • John Taylor November 12, 2020 at 7:24 pm Reply

      Hi Blair,

      Thanks for finding antibiotic free Turkey. So that makes them equal to chicken. Thye only have Roundup from the grain they eat. This is the best available. Even wild turkeys have some roundup as they eat grains for farmer’s fields. I eat chicken and periodically remove the Roundup,with Borax.

      John Taylor

  35. Orf November 13, 2020 at 1:14 am Reply

    Hello folks,

    200 days detox now from 5 levofloxacin poison pills, knocked me into the dirt, the sad story we all know only to well, tendons shredded, 10/10 pain unable to walk, so weak and pain wracked- could not tear tissue paper, left arm and right leg paralyzed, crawled to the M.D. who poisoned me no help “will it go away”? “I hope so” was the reply, Useless- found this site and got on Magnesium, B6, B12, Selenium, Vit.D etc. helped me a lot but by the time I found the information it was to late, took me ten days or so to find the information and take the antidotes. M.D. knew nothing about it, admitted that it was a reaction to the drug. His staff was horrified when I crawled into his off ice looking for help- nothing.

    2nd visit to get a wrist brace for my hand and a boot for my foot- the 2nd Doc denied that it happened first one was there and confirmed it was antibiotic reaction.

    Also had nightmares, brain fog, troubled sleep when I could sleep- sharp weird pains all over body left arm hand and right leg swollen, achillies tedon pain and all the other horrors.

    That’s the sad story so many of us know only to well.

    The good news is that I am about 75 percent recovered. I can walk, I can do my tai chi type old man kung fu and can do stake standing chi gung exercise for 90 min. still have some tendon pains in hands and legs post exercise but its a helluva improvement. And I am very thankful for what I have got back.

    I am thankful for the advice I got from Lisa here and all of the people on this website.

    Do not give up! you will get better, you will have setbacks, endurance is the key, go easy on yourself, if you over do it to early with exercise trying to rehab. you will pay (I sure as hell did more than once.) Your body will tell you- less is more for real. 100 days for me was when I started to see some improvement.

    I saw a P.A. as my medical provider about a week ago, the MD who damn near did me in had left the area and I needed a new PCM. would not have got back to the old MD anyway. I told him (The P.A.) what happened and to my surprise he was aware of the possible effects of the “quin” antibiotics. He said it was rare, I told him the story and gave him the information about Magnesium antidote etc, I also provided the info to a nurse I know for patient safety in service training. And a link to Floxie hope. Still trying to get the word out anyway I can.

    God bless you and heal you all.


    • Virginia November 13, 2020 at 7:25 pm Reply

      Orf, thank you for your hopeful update and blessing! I’m glad to hear you’ve recovered so well after such a bad floxing. I too have heard that Magnesium seems to help the most. Thanks also for reminding floxies not to give up hope: we’ve had a few understandably desperate ones on here lately. I too am thankful for Lisa and the advice I got on this site; they were the first to help me recover. After 6 years, I’m about 90% recovered. Like you, I warn all the patients and medical professionals I can about FQs. Most seem receptive, and my local PT (I’m a frequent flyer) even referred a patient to me to talk to them about the FQ side effects! They take Quin toxicity seriously there and have begun to ask about it when they do tendon problem intakes. Yes, too much exercise too soon can be dangerous for our damaged tendons: I learned that too. Braces worn at night continue to keep my tendons almost fully healed.

      • Orf November 14, 2020 at 1:13 pm Reply


        Yes! we have to keep our spirits up and press on- glad you are on the way to 100 percent recovery!, its a long hard path for everyone. I am very glad that your P.T. is aware of the FQ poison effects and working with you to get the word out and understand it. The PT community needs to be fully aware of the negative effects of FQ. I was a med tech for over a decade in a hospital and never ran into it. Only one medical person that I have talked to post floxing was aware- that was my P.A. as I said.

        My experience is that most MD’s are not aware of it or deny it. We have to educate folks so they don’t fall into the trap. If it happens to you- you will be desperate and horrified a serious blow. If they can get the magnesium quickly post poisoning I think it might help a lot. MD’s do not have any protocol or antidote that I am aware of. A Magnesium I.V. might help? Something for them to study something needs to be done to find something to help- If they continue to RX FQ’s more people will be struck down.

        It is quite possible that they (drug companies) are spiking Dr. Jay Cohen’s book “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe”. imo. I have a book dealer friend will ask him to investigate availability of the book.

        Take care,

        best to you


        • Virginia November 15, 2020 at 9:28 pm

          Orf, that’s dismaying that you only found one medical person who was aware of FQ poisoning. In my experience, few medical professionals deny it can be dangerous, but the MD who gave it to me denied that my spontaneous tendon rupture was from it. He was clearly afraid I’d sue him. I gave him the Dr. Jay Cohen book and he questioned the research in it, which disgusted me. Thanks for asking your book dealer friend if he can find it. Only copy I found was for $85 on ebay: ridiculous price! I can well believe the makers of FQs would do all they could to make the book disappear. Not to find a single affordable copy anywhere is very suspicious. Yes, I think Mg IVs could help with FQ poisoning.

      • Orf November 20, 2020 at 1:43 pm Reply


        My book dealer friend “Iron Ox” lol checked all the websites he uses and only found one copy to the book on Amazon at 85 dollars Dr. Jay Cohen’s book “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe”. You were right. He was also wondering why it is out of print its not that old etc*. He found another book by the same author Jay S. Cohen- MD on Amazon “The hidden dangers of antibiotics” for $13.95 in paper back- and it seems to be available. Not sure if that book would help us or not. I may check out that book, Hope that helps a bit.

        Cheers for you- take care!


        * Drug company skulldrudgery- spiking etc ? Possible.

        • Orf November 20, 2020 at 1:48 pm


          P.S. it is very likely that the MD that gave you the poison antibiotic was scared you would take him to court. No wonder he denied the effects of it and the info in Cohens book.

          It is disgusting that they do that- and horrific as well

        • Virginia November 22, 2020 at 8:31 pm

          Orf, yes: I think it very likely that the famous Lyme doctor who poisoned me with Cipro denied the Jay Cohen book research because he was afraid to admit he’d harmed me, and was afraid I’d sue him. I wouldn’t have, since there are far too few Lyme doctors around, and I think he’s trying to help us. But I too was disgusted at his transparent denial of evidence due to fear. I lost faith in this doctor because of this and left him.

        • Virginia November 22, 2020 at 8:27 pm

          Orf, thanks so much for getting your friend to check on the Cohen book! If even he, as a book seller, couldn’t find any copies except that over-priced $85 one, then I’m very suspicious of the drug companies buying up and shredding any remaining copies. It’s just so bizarre there are literally no copies to be had, digitally either. I wonder if the other Cohen book you mentioned is the same one under a different name? I might trying buying it to see. Since its title doesn’t have Cipro or Levaquin in it, maybe the drug companies didn’t try to destroy all its copies.

  36. Bob Clement November 13, 2020 at 2:31 am Reply

    John might not be a doctor but Rex Newnham, Ph.D., D.O., N.D was. Do some more research! John might not be a doctor but he is spending his time trying to help others and I for one am grateful for him pointing this out to me.

    • Virginia November 13, 2020 at 7:58 pm Reply

      Bob, I read some articles about Dr. Newnham. I agree with him about boron being helpful for osteoporosis:there is evidence that it helps and I take it for that. I didn’t know that it can help osteoarthritis; doesn’t seem to help mine much, but I’ve only been taking 3 mg for 2 years. I can maybe increase the dose, but too much isn’t a great idea. I’ve done extensive reading about natural OA remedies, but have never read anywhere else about boron helping this, so I’d need more evidence. Nowhere in the articles, however, did I read of Dr. Newnham saying anything about boron helping FQ issues, so my original opinion stands: John Taylor’s advice about borax for FQ damage is not proven, and I’ve never read this anywhere else in the 6 years I’ve researched Quin damage. I’ve read numerous articles and books about FQ repair, including the books by Jay Cohen and Kerri Knox: 2 medical professionals. Knox (a RN) writes a great deal about helpful supplements (including magnesium, vitamins C, D and E, selenium, COQ10. Omega 3s and NAC, as well as others), but doesn’t say a word about boron or borax. I can’t pull up the Cohen book on my Kindle, but I don’t recall him recommending boron for FQ repair either. I’m not saying borax won’t help or is necessarily harmful, I’m just saying we should approach this unproven advice with caution. John certainly is spending his time trying to help others, but he is also selling his book via this site. I have problems with anyone using this site for any kind of profit motive whatsoever, even if they’re trying to help others at the same time. I’ve been on this site 6 years and have not noticed anyone else try to sell something here.

  37. Bruce November 13, 2020 at 9:11 am Reply

    Orf, so the supplements you listed help you the most with the tendon pain

    • John Taylor November 14, 2020 at 6:40 pm Reply


      Tendon repair.
      Chicken bone broth for the collagen
      Vitamin D
      Glycosamin Chondroitin
      Oil coconut is my fav
      magnesium – topical,every time it hurts
      vitamin K2

      Move the tendon this draws the chemistry to it. Don’t over stress but more force will make the tendon stronger.

      Good luck
      John Taylor

      • Virginia November 15, 2020 at 9:18 pm Reply

        I agree with John about these suggestions. Gently moving the affected tendons can help, but it’s very important not to over-strain them, since they can rupture. I had 3 partial tendon ruptures from Cipro.

  38. Orf November 13, 2020 at 10:27 am Reply

    Magnesium seemed to help the most- the supplements I listed are what I took (take) I also use Magnesium oil which seems to help a lot got the info here. Just don’t give up hope- I had read that 30 days was the time frame to improve it took me 100 to get functional so I was worried- but I did improve. Others will to. Not sure if I will recover 100 percent but I am grateful for what I have- thank God every day for it. Quin poisoning is a awful experience. You can’t believe it happened, others don’t believe you, Md’s no help etc. But- Do not give up! you will get better, you will improve. Time heals. Keep punching.
    I made some early mistakes- took over the counter pain meds then found out they were counter productive and can make it worse. Drank some coffee, to early exercise- trying to rehab etc. Those things delayed improvement, be aware, try to get the word out to others warn them. Thanks again for the info and people on this website!

    God bless you and heal you (us) all.


  39. Virginia November 13, 2020 at 8:27 pm Reply

    Having just left 2 comments about the late Dr. Jay Cohen’s book “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe”, I tried to buy a copy online. It is completely unavailable in any form. I must have checked a dozen sites at least including Amazon and ebay. The copy I tried to download or read online was blocked due to malware on it. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but it seems suspicious to me that there seem to be no copies left of this book anywhere in the world and no way at all to access the book. Other, far older and rarer books with similar limited editions are readily available, but not this title. Could it be that Bayer and other drugs companies that make FQs bought up all the remaining copies after Dr. Cohen died and shredded them? They have every interest to prevent knowledge of the dangers of FQs being spread further. Is it just me that thinks this? Do any of you know where I can get a hard copy? I have a copy on my Kindle, luckily, but would like a hard copy.

  40. John Taylor November 14, 2020 at 7:43 pm Reply

    Hi Virginia,

    I see that I have fallen quite far behind on this blog somehow. MY background is a BS in chemical engineering. Various short courses in Chemistry. When my Dad got Parkinson’s I taught him organic chemistry as relates to Parkinson’s. He became quite good at and discussed treatments with his doctor. So they worked together and Dad’s .life was extended to 26 years compared to the original diagnosis of t years. I only helped for the first 6 months and then they were a good enough team by themselves and Ieft me in the dust.

    My work involved chemistry, so I have learned from others with advanced degrees. I was a chemical customer so I would ask for certain properties and discuss how to achieve them.Then there would be trials and we’d learn what worked and what didn’t. Lots of chemical mechanistic thinking. All the advances in chemical additives and base properties in my industry came from my lab for the 15 years while I was there. Very little has advanced in the following 25 years or so. You could say I am no slouch.

    I also advocated and refined statistical techniques for research and manufacturing. I used these techniques to study what is going on inside my body. One learns a lot more this way than what the medical profession does with one-thing-at-a-time scientific experiments. The problem with scientific experiments is they reinforce what you believe to start. My techniques force one to face things you don’t know. I didn’t invent these techniques, I just use them and modify the overall approach to be practical.

    I am not all that smart but I cheat when I get stuck. God knows the answer, I just have to listen. I feel I am just His tool to get this information out. I am not a median. I just get ideas to evaluate. I can’t be sure I heard correctly so I have to test. Through my career I have extended knowledge past what is in the book. I am research with one very knowledgeable partner.

    Well, I’d allow you to say I do good work, but it is important to listen to others. When I published, it was the best I could do. But I sought other input with a questionnaire. The blog has brought important new ideas that improve the recovery protocol.

    Together we are going to defeat this toxicity and I believe in short order. It took me three years to learn what I know and free myself from being a Floxie. I don’t know how long it will take to get a fully functional body back. Depending on how damaged one is I believe one can escape in 3 to 12 months.

    Thanks for asking,
    John Taylor

    • Virginia November 15, 2020 at 9:01 pm Reply

      John, thanks for your thoughtful response and for writing about your background, which I’m glad is in chemistry. I too believe we’re on this earth to help people, with God’s help. I think you meant medium, not median: a person who is in touch with another dimension. It sounds like you do really want to help people, and I admire that. Together we can all help defeat this toxicity. It took me 5 years to escape FQ toxicity 90%; some take shorter or longer and different people respond differently to supplements. What helps one may not help, or may even harm, another. I know you are trying to fit your pieces of the puzzle into this complicated mess.

  41. Juju November 15, 2020 at 7:39 am Reply

    Hi Virginia, Thanks for your kind words, I have been feeling very alone and each person that reaches out, gives me that little bit more support to lift my chin up. If you don’t believe in conspiracy theories then I’m afraid you haven’t been paying attention, books that undermine the official narrative disappear all the time. Perhaps though since his death simply nobody was making any profit from the book so its gone, no inheritor. After all profits before and above research into health is what got us all in this mess to begin with!

    I believe John is trying to help people, I believe he enjoys solving this riddle, I need to believe that because the alternative reality of him loitering around this forum to exploit desperate frightened people who are hopelessly looking for answers is a special kind of evil.

    I am however confused by how he thinks I need to ‘remove’ the cipro when the drug has a half-life of 4 hours and I haven’t taken it for 3 years. I’m also confused why he is still happy to take more cipro in the future, I would literally need to be choking on my last breathe before allowing that poison into my system ever again.

    I am grateful for the heads up about Borax though as some people have said it has helped their arthritis and I am suffering in my ankles and spine but I have also read accounts from people who have said it has done nothing after a year of taking it. Other people think it is utterly ridiculous and an internet fad.

    I am concentrating on the theory that Cipro has damaged my cells, it is a little bit more hopeless in the sense that I have an autoimmune disease and of course cancer can develop from too much damaged mitochondria, HOWEVER I also have my own theory that with the right diet and nutrition and sensible amounts of exercise I can fight back. My body is on MY side, it is working with me for survival not against me and I am focusing my energy and my mindset on the fight to replace those damaged cells with healthy ones. No more drugs or fluoride or anything other than the right nutrition and I cannot see it beating me. The power of the conscious mind is something else we are yet to fully understand.

    My only fear is what damage it has caused in the years I have been ‘blissfully’ unaware and been living less responsibly than I shall be from this moment onward. Hence me returning home to get tested for cancers and diseases.

    When I get the all clear I will make all my dreams come true. I will use all the negatives as positives and then I can only win. Starting with fibromyalgia.. everytime I feel lazy about accomplishing a task I am gong to blame it on the disease and instead of using it as an excuse to quit; I will use it as motivation to get up and go.

    • Virginia November 15, 2020 at 9:16 pm Reply

      Juju, I’m glad our support helps some in your struggle. As for Dr. Cohen’s book, I fear the unavailability of it isn’t just due to his death, but to the pharmaceutical companies buying all the remaining copies and shredding them, so patients can’t learn of the dangers of FQs. I too believe John wants to help people, in addition to selling his book. Most people have mixed motives. I doubt that he’s evil; from what I can see, he has good intentions, which doesn’t necessarily mean his theory is right. It can take years to get Cipro damage out of our bodies: took me 5 years, and I still have a bit of pain from it at times. I too would never take it again unless it were life or death. I reviewed all my notes about supplements for FQ toxicity, including Dr. Jay Cohen’s book on it, and didn’t find borax/boron recommended anywhere. I’m not saying it’s wrong, just that I haven’t heard anybody but John suggest it. Yes, you can fight back, and your body wants you to heal. The right diet and supplements (like magnesium) can help a lot.

    • John Taylor November 16, 2020 at 4:45 am Reply


      Cipro has a half life of 6 hours in your blood stream. This is quoted in the drug literature. However what they don’t say is that it is surface active, meaning it stays on the surface of your cells and out of the blood stream. Worse it’s chemical structure is similar to caffeine so it stays in your brain. Every couple of days it get knocked off a site but attaches to another quickly. That process has a half life of 56 weeks or it takes five and a half years for natural removal. High concentration of Magnesium will turn it into a powder when it is in your blood. I measure 3.5 grams removed after 4 months compared to a dose of 5.5 grams.

      This is why the feeling of being a Floxie remains. However once you feel the toxic destruction, You have to remove enough of all toxins to get your rate of healing above the rate of destruction. Unfortunately Cipro and other toxins are in our food supply.

      Saturated Magnesium salt foot soaks and Borax are effective ways to remove all toxins. Until you do this, you are spinning your wheels.

      John Taylor

  42. Tuula November 15, 2020 at 10:29 am Reply

    Hi Virginia,

    Thank you so much for saying what you did! I have been debating whether to see another ND. I have wasted a fortune on NDs to date. This really is hell, not being able to work for years, being in such physical torment and pain 24/7, and spending money in desperation and on very stupid things like a $500 Lyme disease test knowing this isn’t Lyme disease, but hoping something may come of it?, etc. I get tired of being recommended $$$ supplements based on what?, everyone prescribes differently, supplements that seem often to cause more hell or are simply incorrectly prescribed, supplements that have sent me to the ER on numerous occasions. Basically pills seem to make me more sick. Food is best but not the solution, maybe trying to find the right magnesium? or magnesiums? Which types did you find helpful? I think low tissue magnesium may be the reason why my gut doesn’t move well… it’s hydrated, etc., but 2 colonoscopies, etc. all is fine? No it’s not, but GI specialities say it is, don’t do motility tests, etc.. If food alone were the solution I would think I would have seen results by now. Since I do testing I see how ie: the supplements cause mitochondria damage (initially there was none prior to supplementation via OAT test), how I overdose 100x on NAC (via OAT test) had one ND recommend I get a fecal transplant, I had literally run out of hope, I did, big mistake, idiots who recommend and those who administer FMTs, they take no accountability, $$$ wasted to physically hurt me even more, I had no gut dysbiosis, now dysbiosis for 1.5 years via GI Map stool DNA tests by Diagnostic Solutions, before/after FMT… it’s all there… normal microbes, afterwards h pylori, newly introduced microbes known to cause auto-immune diseases, overgrowths of others, and then the new symptoms afterwards that won’t go away (I already had enough to deal with) how stupid was I going down this path thanks again to one ND, based once again, absolutely nothing.

    The first time I took an epsom salt bath years ago, my legs became very painful, the mg malate does cause muscle pain/bruising…. I’ll test again, and different magnesiums… synthetic drugs are no good according to my genetics… I am still waiting for the bruising to heal from the epsom bath/mg chloride, and mg malate supplementation. I did purchase Mg glycinate and Mg + taurine. But maybe by then I’ll see another ND. I have tried saunas, just don’t have that much access to and interestingly when I did go, I freaked myself out… I developed livedo reticularis lines on my body during/afterwards, I have a history of taking saunas since childhood this ain’t normal, but then I know this just another sign of this toxicity. I can’t tolerate chlorella -it seizes up my gut whether 3 years ago or a few months ago. Activated charcoal… I won’t go near it again, even though I just took 1/4 tsp something happened in my liver, still not over it, has something to do with the segment 7 area, there’s a discomfort there now that has not gone away yet? My body tells me things. I went as far as 5 doses of the borax but once again I’m angry at myself, it seems possibly promising but… borax, how you take it and when is likely very important… ie: must be taken am, likely a few hours before food?… it did something to my stomach or pancreas when I took it pm?

    I think this toxicity has much to do with the liver, and cleaning it is paramount. Though the coffee enemas (never colonics, nor herbal detox) did give me a bit of a breakthrough I have to be careful with that… I noticed, following the last one, that my blood tests changed in regards to my liver in a way that has never been recorded in 4.5 years… so until these tests are normal again, even that is on hold,… all I know is I am super toxic, seems even moving the toxins are dangerous, and so I try to be always aware, learn from my mistakes, proceed with caution, slowly. The reality is this has been 4.5 years and all I have met are people who are suppose to help, but who either do nothing, know nothing, or have caused me to hurt my body more by what in hindsight should have been completely preventable. I sometimes wonder where common sense has gone, sometimes including my own. Everything has side effects.

    Learning from others here helps!

    • Virginia November 15, 2020 at 8:45 pm Reply

      Tuula, you certainly have a complicated, stubborn case if you’ve spent a fortune on NDs without any relief! It’s such a pain to have to visit multiple doctors and then to have one make you worse. I too have been harmed by doctors….Getting a Lyme test was not wasted money, however, since Lyme can mimic Cipro toxicity exactly, and vice-versa. I have both, and am never sure if a given symptom is from FQs or Lyme. Were you tested for co-infections of Lyme too? Those need different testing. Supplements are such a shot in the dark: one never knows if they will help till one tries them. It’s all so much trial and error: same with me. I’ve tried almost all the magnesium types (except taurate), and think they’ve helped. Can’t be sure, since I might have recovered to the same degree without them. Mg is one of the minerals most recommended for FQ toxicity, but a few people have the opposite reaction and do worse on Mg. It sounds like you react badly to a lot of the detox methods; maybe you could try coffee enemas some more very diluted? I’d be careful with the borax, since I’ve not read about using it in any other FQ protocols. I’m not saying its wrong, just be cautious. I re-read my Dr. Jay Cohen book about FQ poisoning (he’s the MD who wrote a whole book on it), and he doesn’t say a word about borax or boron. I’m sorry you’ve hit so many roadblocks with your search for recovery. But you definitely can and likely will get better with time. It’s too bad so few doctors, even NDs, know how to help this problem.

      • Juju November 15, 2020 at 9:20 pm Reply


        If this is to be believed, it would seem it s exactly what a floxie needs. It aids my supplements and counters the effects of everything I understand to be wrong with me. – Again if this is to believed.

        (4) boosts magnesium absorption; (5) reduces levels of inflammatory biomarkers, such as high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) and tumor necrosis factor α (TNF-α); (6) raises levels of antioxidant enzymes, such as superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase, and glutathione peroxidase; (7) protects against pesticide-induced oxidative stress and heavy-metal toxicity; (8)

        (11) may help ameliorate the adverse effects of traditional chemotherapeutic agents.

        The absence of studies showing harm in conjunction with the substantial number of articles showing benefits support the consideration of boron supplementation of 3 mg/d for any individual who is consuming a diet lacking in fruits and vegetables or who is at risk for or has osteopenia; osteoporosis; osteoarthritis (OA); or breast, prostate, or lung cancer.

        All boron-tested compounds (5–20 ppm) significantly reduced all genotoxic effects that were induced by low doses of heavy metals.

        This site is about hope.. and those potential benefits give me hope. It may not be a cure but this certainly suggests would help with the battle.

        Once again.. Thanks for the tip John!!

        • Virginia November 15, 2020 at 9:34 pm

          Juju, I ran across this article awhile ago and was pleased to see that boron helps with osteopenia. Since then, I’ve taken 3 mg. a day for that. The article doesn’t mention boron helping with FQ toxicity, but does say it might help detox chemotherapeutic agents; FQs are sometimes classified as a type of chemotherapy. If true, then it might indeed help.

        • Juju November 16, 2020 at 6:13 am

          YAY!! I was afraid to try at first because of course the box even says DO NOT INGEST but the more testimonies I have read and the fact there is no evidence of it being dangerous in small amounts its a no brainer and EXACTLY about the chemotherapy statement, it only says ameliorate not cure but ill try absolutely anything to help. I will gradually increase the dosage and be sensible. Have you noticed it working for yourself? Any improvements? Thanks for replying and being here for us, you are really helping!

      • Tuula November 16, 2020 at 10:49 am Reply

        Hi Virginia,

        Great talking to you. At this point in time I have decided I won’t go near borax again. My stomach has been in pain since dose #5 -when I took it late in the day when I ate no food afterwards till the next day, that’s when I woke up to my stomach in pain. Is this borax related? It’s all about timing? Coincidence? The pain now keeps me up even at night. When my stomach is empty it hurts more. Nothing other than good quality food till I get back to my baseline even though it’s hellish. This poisoning is unrelenting. I honestly don’t know how I can still be alive. It’s also like someone said at floxie hope- it seems the moment something feels a touch better something else feels worse – an endless cycle of hell. I think this type of toxicity related to fluoroquinolones, happens also from other antibiotics- nitrofurantoin in my case (though cipro from years ago may have contributed after reviewing my health records, though I considered myself very healthy). In hindsight I now also see how others had floxie like symptoms related to blood pressure medications as well? For me it really does seem to come down to just eating well and the coffee enemas which I do occasionally, just maybe more gently as you said. The only way I knew the coffee enemas would help was by trying (just the thought of doing something like that was not something I would have ever normally considered- as was the FMT, the borax). In hindsight, I realize how ignorant people are myself included. The body is complex. It’s a dangerous series of events starting with physicians not knowing yet thinking they do. I can’t help but think of those whose early deaths could have been prevented and those who’s hell/death can be prevented. At least this has been an invaluable educational experience for my family for which I am grateful.

        • Virginia November 17, 2020 at 7:06 pm

          Tuula, I’m sorry about your stomach hurting after the borax. I know nothing about borax, but Andrea just posted that it’s not meant to be taken internally. Boron, on the other hand, is a safe supplement in small doses; I take 3 mg. daily for osteoporosis. Like Andrea, I too would be suspicious about taking borax internally, especially if the box says not to ingest. I do hope your stomach will calm down eventually!

        • John Taylor November 19, 2020 at 6:34 pm


          I have been thinking about your situation and how I would proceed if I was in the same state. You have more understanding of yourself than I can garner from a few written pages, so you will have to consider the below and make your own decisions. I’ll try to provide insight to guide you.

          You have three things to overcome in a sequence.

          First is to heal your digestive pain as that will limit your ability to overcome the other two. Pain in the digestive tract is a show stopper to reversing fluroquinolone toxicity. The cures are location specific. Starting with stomach ulcers if that is a pain location, Margo Puree (with the pulp) coats the ulcer and is healing. It takes 2-3 months. Unless it is an ulcer caused by a bacteria. As I understand the procedure, they scope your stomach and identify if the heliobacteria is present. Unfortunately, the cure for that is an antibiotic. Then Mango will be effective. Maybe you want to avoid the scope but time is important.

        • Tuula November 20, 2020 at 12:04 pm

          Hi John,
          The stomach pain stopped, did try borax during the day once more, but pain came back again next morning, stopped Borax again, my stomach is supposedly fine, have had 2 endoscopies in the past, last one in 2019. I think my stomach acid is low, and the h pylori is likely in the large colon from the FMT. I have been trying magnesium, recently been taking Mg glycinate, Mg citrate + taurine, and some Mg citrate powder, but magnesium causes muscle pain, so I am going to try just one type at a time for a few days? (am staying away from Mg Malate at the moment has caused bruising/pain for sure in the past and recently, as did the soaking) It is like my body is retaining a huge amount to toxins and when trying to move them I cause more chaos in my body and my body is somehow unable to detox as it should?… tried L lipoic acid yesterday see if it would help at all. …. however last night new symptom muscle pain in back, lower area of both legs (could be also related to the magnesiums also, having taken them more the last few day)… trying all these magnesiums lately cause muscle pain which is something that’s never been one of my foremost symptoms…. burning, stinging, NEUROPATHY especially in my legs/feet, ringing tinnitus, pulsatile tinnitus worst… but everything is a mess…. gut, muscles, vision, etc. I feel like I need to get to a state where I can take maganesium? So frustrating have yet to find an ND to help guide me through this. I am especially concerned of vascular damage in legs… My body has been taking a severe beating for 4.5 years… muscles in lower legs killing me today, it’s because of the magnesium… but I think I need it, it helps my gut behave more normal… something is blocking my ability to detox, clear this, just don’t know what the key/hold up is.. again my GGT is low, and I think it hinders/limits my ability to detox, glutathione?

        • John Taylor November 19, 2020 at 6:37 pm


          Further down in the intestines oil is more effective in coating the damaged area so acid can’t continue to damage. Drink olive and avocado oil, eat coconut oil and stop drinking milk and all dairy products (they require acid to digest) and drink almond milk. Almond milk is oil in water, It does not need to be digested with acid. You have pain from a surgery site that needs to heal further. If lots of oil doesn’t make you feel better, Peptobismal will coat your whole digestive tract. You can feel where it has advanced and identify the pain locations. Some article claim it absorbs bacteria on its surface. Most Doctors don’t think that is a mechanism. In the old days we had clay (kaopectate) the surface area of the clay adsorbs oils and bacterial. I have no idea where to find a commercial product.

          Do not eat further toxins found in foo., Beef and Pork contain Cipro. Turkey, except for Plainville Turkey Farms, contain azithromycin. Rice cereal and organic oatmeal is Ok. All other cereals contain Roundup as do all grains (except rice). Chicken is probably OK as it only contains roundup. You can tell if is a problem if it hurts your stomach when you eat it. Wid caught fisk is OK. Canned tuna fish is OK.

          Second, when your digestive pain is under control you can start the antibiotic removal protocols, however before that there are some things you can do to help make the healing chemicals available.

          Your magnesium deficient – all your other symptoms indicate this – however you are so deficient that adding magnesium makes a painful salt gradient and high salt levels will irritate your digestive lining damaged spots.
          So the typical adult has 1 gram of Magnesium circulating in the blood. Say you have 0.5 grams and we want to increase by 50% or 0.25 grams to start. That is 15 ml of saturated Epsom salt or half an ounce. Well, dilute the saturated solution in half to make it more tolerable. Epsom salt is the softest magnesium salt.

          To make a solution put ½ cup of Epsom salt and ½ cup of water in any jar with a lid and shake it up. Wait a minute and shake again. Repeat. When the salt settles to the bottom, decant some into a second jar and add an equal part of water. Apply one ounce to the bottom of your foot. The skin on your foot is the toughest skin and will take salt the best. An ounce is a lot and you will apply this slowly. If you feel it sting immediately, dilute to 2 ounces. Keep diluting until there is no sting. See if you can apply the whole ounce on your soles and sides of your feet. If you have a sore muscle apply it there. After you have wet your skin with the ounce wait four hours. If you don’t have any pain from this – kick it up a notch with two ounces. Try the straight undiluted salt. Every 4 hours increase the amount of salt until you are adding 3 grams. Each application should allow you tolerate more. If not back off.
          It is important to not take any supplements, especially a multivitamin or Vitamin D during this magnesium desensitizing. Nothing. Nothing. The reason is simple enough. Your body has placed magnesium where it wants it the most. Any supplement will draw magnesium to the area it will repair – depleting it elsewhere. Elsewhere can be major. You can lose half you muscle mass in a few days. So, wait until your magnesium levels satisfy your muscles. Th endpoint sign post is no soreness and you can spring out of chair and walk across the room.

          When you reach this point take ½ a Vitamin D pill. Probably your muscles will complain. Keep taking the magnesium topically.

          Third is to remove the Fluroquinolones with saturated Epsom salt foot soaks. When you reach this point, you are on the way to getting out of the Floxie dungeon. Your digestive tract must be repaired first. Probably you will feel better from the magnesium before your tact heals.
          Keep us posted on your progress, if you encounter a pitfall especially. We probably will offer a work around.

          John Taylor

        • Tuula November 20, 2020 at 12:30 pm

          Thanks John,

          Just read your other post about the magnesium and digestive system.. I eat a whal’s diet, clean, organic, include olive oil, etc….I think diet is the one thing that has kept me alive. Since the beginning when this began, at night hell breaks loose and somehow I come through in the morning, it never ceases to amaze me how my body keeps bouncing back from nights, days or weeks of hell and how different parts of my body are attacked/poisoned, while other symptoms like the neuropathy is ongoing, pure unrelenting pain… last night it was my lower legs- severe muscle pain with some muscle popping (something I have gotten almost completely under control in the last year), initially I was like a human popping popcorn machine for first several years, no part of my body was off limits to the fasciculations… right neck, lower legs worse, arms, etc. I just feel so SUPER TOXIC, being poisoned alive, day by day. After 4.5 years and all the running around I have done trying to get help and not finding any, I am so super grafeful to speak to people like you and this website. Tying to find out what works for me.


    • Andrea November 20, 2020 at 4:28 am Reply

      Great point Tuula. I’ve been guilty too. In the past I’ve used so many supplements, sometimes all in once. And it was just a waste of money. Some of them do help. To me Vitamin D is super important. Magnesium and minerale too, but sometimes magnesium seemed to get things worse. Many people think that since something it’s “natural” it won’t cause any problem. And that’s stupid! First of all there many poisons naturally occuring in nature, and second remember that in nature, things like vitamins and minerale, never come in those dosages and never alone. For example Vitamin C from a bell pepper, comes with a thousands of other micronutrients, so it’s not the same as taking a pill. Not saying it’s always wrong ti take supplements of course, but even them can cause big problems sometimes. Take my case as example : my digestive system was perfectly fine, until I took a pribiotic that messed me up badly. I didn’t recover from it, and it was 2 years ago!

  43. Dee November 16, 2020 at 9:08 am Reply

    I learned a long time ago when I first got floxed (3 1/2 years ago) that taking small diluted doses of borax or boron flushed out fluoride!! You can even google clearing out fluoride and it will come up. I actually tried it but never stuck with it so as far as I know it is effective for clearing toxins etc out of your body. I would definitely start very low dose as John has described!

  44. David November 16, 2020 at 4:34 pm Reply

    With the advent of vaccines I have a question. Is it safe for a floxie to be vaccinated? I had a Cipro resction that put me in wheelchair. After recovering a statin did the same thing. Then an antibiotic same thing. Exact same symptoms. I had taken these meds many times before. Since Cipro there are now dozens of drugs that flatten me. I’m told it’s mitochondrial and that since I’m in a depleted state many drugs will have same effect on me. I’m recovered but only because I take a huge regimen of magnesium.

    • Don M November 16, 2020 at 7:54 pm Reply

      David……. I have one BIG question. What about the future after having the vaccine? Like the Fluoroquinolones, will there be now unseen long term adverse reactions. I have heard (is it true I don’t know) that the method of action for the vaccines is to inhibit the reproduction of the RNA. This sounds an awful lot like the method of action of the Fluoroquinolone antibiotics. As you say, “is it safe for a floxie”? Only time will answer this question. If it does end up being true we will have a world population that is sick.

      The drugs that “flatened” you. If you look closely at them most all of them have fluoride in them. If you look closely many, many things have fluoride in them.

    • Bob November 21, 2020 at 12:07 pm Reply

      How much magnesium do u take?

  45. Juju November 16, 2020 at 9:34 pm Reply

    Interesting points guys. I cannot stand the idea of ever taking any drug or medicine again, or allowing such heavy metals into my system. Whats the point in me brushing my teeth with non-fluoride toothpaste, swilling my mouth out with bottled water and spending fortunes on mineral waters, having a meticulous diet, tolerating headaches, just to let them give me a huge dose of god knows what. Also I feel like taking Cipro when I did; and all the information that has come out since; I have been the guinea pig once all ready and it didnt work out to well. Any one taking that vaccine is a guinea pig NO DOUBT! Since when were vaccines rolled out so quickly? Yes they appear safe NOW to the test volunteers but if its anything like I am experiencing now with Cipro they are not gonna know until 3 years down the line.

    • Don M November 17, 2020 at 9:57 am Reply

      Juju…………. Right on. I can’t find the website now but I did read that the vaccines are working around the idea of breaking the strands of RNA. Now that sounds an awful lot like the way that Fluoroquinolones are designed to work. Since they do look a bit similar one might just think that “maybe” there might be some adverse effects later. The web site I was looking at was giving the eye witness accounts of the adverse after effects that people were experiencing after “so called” recovering from the Covid virus.

      I don’t write this or post it to scare fellow floxies but my objective is………. be aware, do your research before you allow anyone to give you a shot of the vaccine. The future adverse effects of the Covid vaccine could possibly be similar to the ones that floxies experience. Floxies don’t need a double whammy. No one knows today what the vaccine could do to you in the future.

      • Juju November 17, 2020 at 9:55 pm Reply

        To me the whole the entire COVID reaction has seemed like an agenda to get vaccines into everybody. I think id sooner take my chances with the virus than exacerbate my current conditions. I’m not ruling anything out, after discovering I have had the equivalent of chemotherapy UNWITTINGLY Im sorry but they have lost my trust. Especially when the tact is to shove it in now and wait to see what happens later. I played that game.. and it has ruined my life.

      • John Taylor November 18, 2020 at 6:34 am Reply

        Hi Don M,

        Spot on Floxies don’t need a double whammy. It is hard choice between risking the flu or risking the vaccine to avoid the flu. I use zinc and L-Lysine to avoid the flu. It has worked for 40 years. I drive for Lyft and must have been exposed a dozen times. No flu yet. I think enough other people will take the vaccineto reduce it’s infection rate and extinguish this threat. It can’t happen soon enough so the Doctor’s grip on our ecommic and social decline will end.

        I have taken the 1/4 teason Borax treatment for 13 days or the equivalent of 52 days of my previous method. I saw no toxic effects and like the idea of an accelerated removal. My temperature trend chart shows an improvement from 2.6 to 1.7 degrees below normal indicating increase thyroid activing. The blood glucose trend cahrt works very slowly and will take another two months to be clear. However it is starteing to decline. so the higher dosage of Borax was helpful. time will tell. It took me 9 months – 38 weeks to bring the toxin levels down to the point where rebuilding was dominating over ongoing destruction. But I don’t know that all toxins were removed. I figure if I do another 38 weeks worth of toxin removal, I can consider this issue defaeted. So far I am down to 30 weeks to go. If I do a week on and 3 weeks off, that is another 8 months but there is always new toxinx arriving. So I am doing a week on and 3 weeks off for life. I took no supplements during the 13 day removal period. It did aggevate my weakness – tendonitis and arrhriitis in my left hand. That reversed in 2 days of glucosamine.

        You have made a big contribution to this blog by finding the article that recommends 1/4 teason daily. Love this blog. It one reason I am alive to write and payback.

        Have I answered all your questions? Have you seen any benefits show up from the protoco?

        John Taylor

  46. David November 17, 2020 at 11:20 am Reply

    Yikes! I’d really like to know if we can take any COVID vaccine, but there doesn’t seem to be a consensus on whether it’s safe. If like Mike said the RNA action is similar to Cipro we are definitely screwed. Do flu vaccines work the sane way? I think we need to hear from a genetic specialist. The information available to us about any meds is so limited. I suspect it’s because the majority of users have little understanding of the chemical composition of vaccines. John what is your opinion ?

    • John Taylor November 18, 2020 at 6:08 am Reply


      Flu vaccines do not work the same way as Cipro. Data does not indicate an increase in oxidative stress from the vaccine. The flu however does cause an increase in oxidative stress.

      The standard risk of any vaccine is they use heavy metal toxins to “purify” them meaning prevent growth of bacterial or viruses. As your docotor about this. It is the major reason people avoid vaccines.

      The CV19 test has 90% false positives…and correspondingly 0% false negatives. It is basically a test to see if you have any typle of virus. now we know 2% of use always have some type of virus. SO if you test positive, look for other signs of CV19. First is a daily temperature graph you can either follow DRRIND.com temperature graph – very complex and very accurate or kust plot youe temperature reading close to noon. If it spikes a degree, then look for other symtoms, if not you are safe.

      so the decision to take the vaccine is up to you and your Doctor, from the limited info on this blog I can’t offer specific advice.

      John Taylor

  47. Andrea November 17, 2020 at 2:44 pm Reply

    Guys, after reading all this interesting posts about Boron and Borax, I’d like to join in the conversation. Some things are not clear : for what I understand Borax and Boron are two different things and Borax it’s not intended to be taken internally, and it seems to cause some trouble, while boron it’s sold as a mineral supplement. Any help to try to understand the difference between the two. The only time I’ve taken Boron it’s when I took the Remyte Solution which contains small amounts of boron, I belive 750 mcg, so very little, I may consider giving boron a try with an higher dose. but I’m too suspicious about borax.

    • John Taylor November 18, 2020 at 5:54 am Reply


      Google Borax for you health. You will find it is recommended as a daily tonic. I doubt you’l find anything specific for Floxies. The daily tonic benefits result from removing toxins. Fluroquinolones are fastest removed with Magnesium but that has no removal effect on other toxins. Borax does.

      John Taylor The Healthy Truth

      • Andrea November 19, 2020 at 4:11 pm Reply

        John, I’ve already googled Borax, and most of the information I’ve found don’t suggest Borax for internal use. Boron, on the other hand, it’s used as a supplement

        • John Taylor November 19, 2020 at 7:00 pm

          Here is a link. https://miracleproducts.shop/blogs/miraculous-minerals/5-reasons-to-take-borax-how-to-make-borax-solution

          You are right most articles talk about the toxic effects. The trick is to limit the amount to get the beneficial effect.

          We have all heard anti-oxidants are good for you. They remove oxidants and prevent oxidative damage. Another word for oxidants is a negative ion. Anti-oxidants are positive ions. Borax os a positive ion. Antibiotics are negative ions. Borax is,the strongest positive ion we cal tolerate but at high enough concentration it will cause damage.

          Hope this clarifies things.
          John Taylor

  48. Aga November 19, 2020 at 8:36 am Reply

    Hi All,
    My name is Aga and I’m new to this blog. I was floxed with Ciprofloxacin 13 months ago. I had stones on my gallbladder and after having multiple attacks my doctor suggested operation and gallbladder removal. The surgeon prescribed me Ciprofloxacin one week before the operation – 500mg twice a day during 7 days. 6 hours after taking the first pill I started to have burning feeling in small place on my right arm. It was just in one place and the sensation was very similar to mild sun burn. I read the information attached to the drug and saw it was causing phototoxicity. I live on the south of Spain, so the sun shines here almost 365 days in the year. I thought, I can carry on with the antibiotic, but do not expose myself to the sun. During the following two days and a half I was staying at home and continue taking the drug, but the burning feeling was not disappearing. So on the third day I decided to stop my medication. I took 5 pills in total. I informed about that to the surgeon, who told me it was probably allergic reaction I should not worry about. When I asked him if he prescribe me another antibiotic, he told me that it is not necessary (!!!).

    Just few days before the operation I had another gallbladder attack. I went to the emergencies and they gave me the cocktail of painkillers. I took the same painkillers in many occasion in the past when having the attack, but that time it made me sick to the point that the following day I was not able to leave the bed. The day after I was feeling better, but in addition to burning feeling in my arm (which didn’t disappear after stopping taking the pills) I started to feel pain in my Achilles tendon in my right leg and pain in my right knee. Light bulb went off in my head! I read the information attached to the Ciprofloxacin again and I panicked. I already knew that pain was caused by that medicine, but I though, I took just 5 pills, so should not be so bad, the pain will disappear.

    The day of the operation came, I warn anaesthetist that I had adverse reaction to Ciprofloxacin and asked him, not to give me any fluoroquinolone during the operation. The operation went fine and in 1 day I was at home. I was feeling very well and decided not to take any painkillers prescribed by the surgeon. I was just doing myself the heparin injections for the next 10 days. The burning sensation, pain in the tendon and knee disappeared and in first moment I thought that all that was just in my head and caused by my hypochondria.
    Six weeks after stopping taking the pills the pain in the tendon and knee came back and in addition the burning sensation, but that time my whole body was burning. I felt it all over the place, my arms, my legs, my back, my armpits, even my genital area. The following days and weeks more symptoms appeared:
    – Muscle pain in my arms and legs. I started having muscle cramps in my legs during the nights which were causing lot of pain.
    – Pain in my tendons in both arms.
    – Pins and needles in my legs.

    I went to see internist, suggesting the adverse effects of Ciprofloxacin, but she said that it’s weird, because the medicine was no longer in my body after so long time and prescribed me Ibuprofen for the tendinitis.

    I went to see a neurologist and told him about my symptoms and Ciprofloxacin. He seemed to be more receptive and prescribed me Vit. E, CoQ10 and omega 3 (EPA y DHA).
    I reviewed my medical history and found out that I already took Ciprofloxacin (500mg twice a day during 7 days) in October 2014 for urinary tract infection – exactly 5 years earlier. I didn’t have any adverse reaction then.

    I started looking for information in internet and found that blog. I read the stories and made a list of the supplements that were helping to others: Vit. C, Vit. D, Vit. E, Zinc, Magnesium, Magnesium oil, Magnesium Epson salts, CoQ10, PQQ, Resveratrol, Probiotics, Omega 3. I tried also supplement of glucosamine, but it was causing me diarrhoea, so I quit it.
    With the time muscle pain in my arms, legs and nightly muscle cramps totally disappeared. The other symptoms started being barely noticeable – they were disappearing and appearing again, but not as strong as at the beginning.

    All of that time I was also struggling to recover from the operation as I had internal pains in the zone of my operation scars. In the middle of February the surgeon suggested abdominal ultrasound which didn’t show anything. The months were passing by and I was not feeling better, so I was made abdominal magnetic resonance which again didn’t show anything. All I was told was it is a muscle problem that will go away with the time, it just takes me longer to recover from the operation that to other people. In June I started to be desperate and I decided to quit all the supplements I was taking that time. During the summer I started swimming and exercise helped me to eventually recover from the post operation pain. I passed very good summer.

    Unfortunately in October I suffered the worst set back since I took that medicine last year. All symptoms came back and with force. Additional symptoms also appeared – I have pain in my bones, especially in my hand and feet bones including fingers. I have pains in my elbows and both knees. I’ve resumed taking the supplements I quit in June. I’m also evaluating usage of R-Lipoic Acid, Selenium and Manganese supplements.

    Meantime I wanted to share with you very interesting article published by polish scientist “Treatment of the Fluoroquinolone-Associated Disability: The Pathobiochemical Implications”. It was published in September 2017, so probably some of you already has read it.


    The article reviews the pathobiochemical properties of fluoroquinolones, hints the directions for further research, and reviews the research concerning the proposed treatment.

    “Based on the analysis of literature, the main directions of possible effective treatment of FQAD are proposed: (a) reduction of the oxidative stress, (b) restoring reduced mitochondrion potential ΔΨm, (c) supplementation of uni- and bivalent cations that are chelated by FQs and probably ineffectively transported to the cell (caution must be paid to Fe and Cu because they may generate Fenton reaction), (d) stimulating the mitochondrial proliferation, (e) removing FQs permanently accumulated in the cells (if this phenomenon takes place), and (f) regulating the disturbed gene expression and enzyme activity.”

    That article does not answers all the questions, but at least scientists began to investigate and put parts of the puzzle together. Human body is complex, very complex, there is no doubt. However there is a hope in the science and scientist.

    • Andrea November 19, 2020 at 4:08 pm Reply

      Hello Aga, I’m Andrea, form Italy. Thank you for sharing your experience. Two things : 1 I suggest you to take it easy on the supplements. This is of course my personal opinion, but since I’ve been there too, I’ve noticed that some of them do help, in my case I’ve noticed how important is Vitamin D3, but sometimes we go a little to wild with them, trying to find the right thing to get better. 2 Did you ask the doctor(s) who gave you the FQ, if he knew about the 2018 EMA earing and the consequent restriction for these drugs? It seems these idiots don’t really want to learn the lesson…here’s a link

      Click to access quinolone-fluoroquinolone-article-31-referral-disabling-potentially-permanent-side-effects-lead_en.pdf

      • Virginia November 19, 2020 at 10:25 pm Reply

        Andrea, really helpful letter from the European Medicines Agency. I hope it’s widely distributed. If only more doctors would listen to it!

        • Andrea November 20, 2020 at 4:00 am

          It was sent ti every doctor and pharmacy in Europe. But evidently many of them WANT ti ignore the facts.

      • Aga November 21, 2020 at 5:37 am Reply

        Hi Andrea,
        Thank you for the advice. I will need to review the list of the supplements I take.
        Regarding the doctors, I’ve already learned one thing, they know nothing. Most of the doctors I met are ignorants.I do not explain to myself how can they prescribe that rubbish having other alternatives…I don’t know if they do read anything they receive from EMA to be honest.

    • John Taylor November 19, 2020 at 7:18 pm Reply

      Hi Aga,

      Antibiotics and other toxins like Roundup stay on the surface of your cells. The half life of Cipro by normal water dilution is 56 weeks so it takes 5.5 years to reach 3% of the original dose…but it is contained beef and pork so we keep dosing up.on toxins. E1lsewhere on this blog are decriptioms on how tO remove these toxins with Epsom Salts and borax. I recommend not taking supplements including Vitamin D until you finish rEmobal.

      John Taylor The Healthy Truth

      • Aga November 21, 2020 at 5:50 am Reply

        Hi John,

        Thank you for your comment. I use Epsom salts already, however I don’t know anything about borax.

        • John Taylor November 21, 2020 at 8:50 pm

          Hi Aga,

          To review earlier posts, Epsom Salts removes Cipro and othe Fluroquinolones from our bodies IF you use a saturated solution – meaning there is solid salt on the bottom for the contain, soak for 15 minutes four days in a row. Otherwise the magnesium concentration in the blood is not high enough take the cipro out of solution and make a powder.

          Borax removes all other toxins. The current recommendation is 1/4 teaspoon daily dissolved in Water. I use a 20 ounce bottle but if it hurts your stomach dilute it further. My stomach lining is still sensitive from intestinal surgery after 4 months. When you are taking Borax, do not take other supplements. 70 days is an estimate to reach the point where natural repairs are overwhelming the ongoing damage. We don’t have enough experience to say how long it takes to remove all toxins yet. It will be a different number for everyone. I guess it is 140 days. Before I reached the point where I didn’t feel,like a Dloxie anymore, I was taking $200/month of supplements to repair the ongoing damage. Now it is nil . I only take magnesium chloride foot soaks to keep my magnesium levels up. Repairs are going at their own pace and I need a lot of magnesium. I have been limiting Vitamin D because it depletes my muscles of magnesium. Occasionally I take a supplement for something but it only two or three pills.

          Borax removes all other toxins. if anyone has a faster or friendlier removal protocol, please bring it forward. While it took me 3 years to figure out how to remove all other toxins, I think it can be done in 3 to 6 months.

          John Taylor

    • Virginia November 19, 2020 at 10:23 pm Reply

      Aga, I’m sorry you’ve had so much FQ damage, but sounds like you’ve really done your homework in finding scholarly articles and supplements to help. You were very smart to have stopped the Cipro so early in the process, thus preventing later damage. It made it harder to know what to do, considering you weren’t floxed the first time: not everyone is. Unfortunately, damage can rear up again after seeming to subside, but with luck and just short exposure to FQs, you will likely recover more in the future.

      • Aga November 21, 2020 at 5:47 am Reply

        Hi Virginia,

        Thank you for the above comment. Unfortunately I was not smart enough in order not to take it in the first place…
        The problem is that we are left in limbo with our health issues and there is no proved treatment as far I know that can fix us. It is overwhelming sometimes.

        • Virginia November 22, 2020 at 8:37 pm

          Aga, I hope you won’t blame yourself for taking Cipro. Most of us trust doctors not to harm us. Unfortunately, that trust is not always deserved. You still stopped sooner than many of us do on it. It’s true there’s no surefire cure, but often time and supplements like magnesium help.

    • Andrea November 20, 2020 at 4:06 am Reply

      Oh, and I’d like to add that you should stay away from antiflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) and cortisone expecially. They make things worse. Only paracetamol (tylenol) seems to be fine as a painkiller for us floxies. Me personally, I’ve taken aspirin a few times post floxing, and always been ok with it, but it’s still an hazard.

  49. Juju November 20, 2020 at 5:38 am Reply


    Do you take borax supplement or are you using the regular ’20 mule’??

    • John Taylor November 21, 2020 at 5:54 am Reply


      I take the regular 20 mule team borax. Thanks to Don M’s article I put 1/4 teaspoon in 12 ounces of water and sip it all day. I take no supplements during this time. First time I did this 4X supplement free test I went 13 days and stopped to clear up tendinitis in my left hand. That was gone in 2 days.

      I am trying to answer the question “Is there still azithromycin in me since I don’t feel like a Floxie any more?” The answer is yes. I have thyroiditis and was running 2.9 degrees cold. On day 10 my temperature rose to 1.7 cold. I also have diabetes. The effect of borax removal on that currently it unclear. fasting glucose takes a while for a change to show,up,in the data. Organ supplements and a recent course of Cipro have raised the trend line from 160 to 200. Right now it is 190 or reduced by the error of measurement. It could take 3 weeks to see 160 again.

      While I feel Floxie free, I do need to repair the damage. The big change is I need only Magnesium chloride to keep things progressing. Food seems to supply whatever else I need. I have had to hold back on Vitamin D also as it will use up the magnesium and my back,gets sore. Recovery is quite a puzzle.

      So there is a sequence of reversal. Removing all toxins come first. Now I know the removal needs to continue after one feels Floxie free. With Don M’s 1/4 teaspoon per day protocol it should only take 10 weeks to reach feeling Floxie free…and likely another 10 weeks to get the toxin level back to “normal.”

      John Taylor

  50. Andrea November 20, 2020 at 7:21 am Reply

    Virginia, I’ve read you’ve taken boron for about two years, did you feel any difference from it? Thank you

    • Virginia November 22, 2020 at 8:18 pm Reply

      Andrea, I’ve been taking about 3 mg. of Boron for about 2 years now. I can’t tell if it’s made a difference in my bone strength or osteo arthritis, but I might be worse off without it. I know my bone mineral density has improved with a number of bone-building supplements including boron, and stopping the SSRIs which can damage bone strength in post-menopausal women. I’m very glad that letter on FQ toxicity was sent to all European doctors. Let’s pray that at least most of them heed its warnings.

      • Andrea November 23, 2020 at 10:19 am Reply

        Thanks Virginia. I sometimes take a multimineral, 2 or 3 times a week, but now I’ve ordered a bottle of boron, 3mg, let’s see if it’s really this beneficial and it really helps to get rid of fluoride…

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