Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

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26,052 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Barbara Arnold November 21, 2020 at 6:07 am Reply


    This is scary. They are using fluroquinolones on some covid patients. Also there are 10 companies try to get their covid vaccine out first ignoring the safety measures.

    • Don M November 21, 2020 at 9:11 am Reply

      Barbara Arnold….. Your right Barbara. The whole treatment thing is scary. Fluoroquinolones are being used on people who have no idea what they could be in for. Many are in no condition to make decisions. I have always maintained that MD doctors treat what they see or can get from a lab report. Very few are concerned about the ancillary adverse effects they could be causing for the patient.

    • Madge Hirsch November 22, 2020 at 6:03 pm Reply

      Hi Barbara- I read some months ago that Bayer had sent a shedload of Cipro to China just like they did to Africa for Ebola. The symptoms of Long Covid are eerily similar to those of floxing. I don’t think all those suffering from Long Covid will have been floxed because many did not have severe symptoms requiring medical treatment when they got infected but some might . How’s it going in Spain? We are on our second lockdown and it just as bad as the first . I have got my op date for my hip replacement -16th Dec. The bad news is that the last lot of xrays showed the other hip needs replacing too. The deterioration has been spectacular and I wonder if this is another gift from Cipro. They will not do the second hip for anotber year. Also kratom has been made illegal here. Hope you are taking your vit D . There has been a trial of Calcifediol at Reina Sofia University Hospital in Cordoba on covid patients with fantastic results. Why is it not being shouted from the rooftops? Because vit D is cheap as chips and there is no money in it for Pharma.

      • Barbara Arnold November 25, 2020 at 10:08 am Reply

        Hi Madge,
        I’m so glad you at last have a date for your hip op. I’m really sorry you have to have the other one done to. What a bummer. Who knows if cipro played a part in this. I guess we’ll never know.
        Yes they have been giving covid patients fluroquinolones, that and the other treatments ie ventalators, there is no doubt in my mind that long covid is a result of this. Many of the symptoms from long covid match the side effects of fluroquinolones. Makes me sick, they are still dishing out these poisonous antibioctics to innocent people, when they KNOW the dangers.
        Here in Spain where I am, its not to bad. We have surrounding towns that are shut. You are not allowed in or out. I live on the border of one town not shut with another that is. We still go out for lunch, tapas, coffee etc. If it were not for the mask wearing and supposidly social distancing you would not think anything was wrong. We are careful and we don’t go out that much. I havn’t seen my family for over 14 months. I am determined to see them next year, no matter what. I’m not getting any younger and I’m waiting for a kidney specialist to phone me as my recent blood test showed very high creatinine, which means my kidney’s are not functioning properly. It’s a mistery though as I have no symptoms from high creatinine levels at all, like diabetes, high blood pressure, fluid retention, foamy urine. Indeed I feel better than I’ve felt for a long time, so I’ve no idea whats going on. If I don’t hear from the specialist by next week, I’m going to chase him up. I’ve been left with a bomshell hanging in the air, so to speak.
        For anyone interested, one of the reasons I feel so much better is since I’ve been taking C60 . I have so much more energy and less pain. I’ve been taking it for 2 months and when this bottle runs out, I will wait and see what happens. I’ve been taking half a dropper twice a day.
        All I take now apart from C60 is magnesium, VitD and zinc. I was taking VitC but I learned that VitC help with iron absorbtion and as this is the last thing my kidney’s need I stopped taking it. I also had high ferritin levels.
        I expect any moment now we will go into another lockdown, so I’m just taking things a day at a time.
        Stay well Madge. It’s always good to hear from you and I will be thinking of you when you have your op, hoping all goes well for you.
        Virtual Hugs xxxx

        • Madge Hirsch November 25, 2020 at 1:30 pm

          Thanks Barbara- my husband has fairly high creatinine levels but our doc has never said anything about it – I think men’s run higher anyway. I really hope nothing is wrong and you can get some finite news soon. All our restaurants are shut which I think is ridiculous round here as there is not much virus circulation and it is ruining the restauranteurs. I am sick of having to cook everyday especially as by dinner time my pain is always worse. What is this C60?
          Apart from the cartilage degeneration which is also worse in my ribs too I feel better generally and hope that I am starting to heal . It is too late for the cartilage – once gone that’s it at my age but I don’t have many days when I feel crap now. I’ve had a flare up of hives and mild PN but it’s not really bothersome. Next July I will be 6 years out so it’s about time ! We have been enjoying a spell of sunny weather and I have been able to sunbathe on the terrace for about 90 mins in the middle of the day. Frosts overnight though
          Look after yourself . I do hope you get to see your family next year. Our granddaughter and her husband were meant to come this month – everything was planned his visa obtained, the ferry tickets booked and then it all had to be cancelled 2 weeks before departure because of the lockdown. Bisous Madge

  2. Bob November 21, 2020 at 11:12 am Reply

    Why do you think the magnesium is causing your pain in lower legs. I don’t take a lot of magnesium and I have the same thing. Floxed over 7 years ago.

  3. Don M November 21, 2020 at 3:24 pm Reply

    Bob…. Who are you asking about painful legs?

    • Bob November 21, 2020 at 9:36 pm Reply

      Whoever it was that thought that magnesium was causing them leg pain.

  4. Juju November 22, 2020 at 4:20 am Reply

    I have decided to enter a 22 day fast. I bought all these supplements for mitochondria repair and I am all set to change to a keto / mito diet, however I feel like before I embark on my battle of the good vs bad mitochondria and whilst the tendonopothies in my shoulders and Achilles are keeping me out the gym anyway I should fast. Close my machine down and let it search out and destroy the damaged cells whilst also hopefully finding anything in there that shouldnt be and detox it OUT. If the theory i didnt metabolise the cipro correctly is true then it should be an opportunity to find it and flush it, if the postulation that its mitochondria damage is to be believed then once again fasting is the best way to target bad cells. Win – Win. Also im so stressed right now about everything im eating and running out of money that 22 days of not thinking about it and not spending eliminates that stress. To be honest researching what cipro does to the body has STRESSED me out the most and that stress has exacerbated all my symptoms and im struggling to differentiate between what is stress related and what is floxie related. I appreciate the info on this site and others but I have become much worse since reading it.

    • Andrea November 22, 2020 at 1:50 pm Reply

      Hi Juju. I’ve read a lot about fasting in the last years. There’s a (quite) famous Italian doctor named Valter Longo, who studied how fasting affects longevity and illness and so on. He promotes something called the fasting mimiking diet, wich is a 5 days diet with very little calorie intake (something like 1000 calories the first day and only 750 calories the other days).
      Me personally, I’ve tried a 3 day water fast a few times during the last 2 years, I belive, but in my case, it didn’t help. It went more or less always this way ; the first 24 hrs I’m just fine, of course hungry but overall ok. The second day I start to feel weak, and the floxie symptoms (joint-muscle-bone pain) start to come back. By the third day, I find myself very very weak, almost exausted, and the pain come back in full force.
      This is only my experience of course, but keep in mind that fasting creates a lot of alterations inside your body. In some cases it could be very beneficial, in other cases it could trigger problems, and this is expecially true for people like us. Now, I’m not saying this would happen to you, but I’m just telling you to be careful. A 22 day water fast is a very long fast, and unless you’re already familiar with fasting, I don’t think you should go for something so extreme the first time. There’re many risks involved in a such a long fast. This is also what fast experts have to say about it. Also keep in mind that, not only the fast it’s important, but even more the refeeding process. You should avoid binge eating after a fast and try to eat the healthiest and easiest to digest food.
      Good luck anyway, Andrea.

  5. Aga November 25, 2020 at 4:17 am Reply

    Hi guys,

    How are you doing? I have a question if any of you tried milk thistle supplement to detox the liver?
    Thanks, Aga

    • Virginia November 25, 2020 at 10:39 pm Reply

      Hi Aga, I used milk thistle successfully to support my liver when I was on Mepron for my Babesia. This medication can raise the ALT level in the liver, which is did mine. My doctor recommended milk thistle, and it really did bring down the ALT level. So it did work for me.

      • Aga November 26, 2020 at 2:16 am Reply

        Thank you Virginia, that sounds promising! Have a great day!

  6. Juju November 27, 2020 at 5:55 am Reply

    Hi Andrea,

    Thanks for taking the time to give me advice. I am well aware that as a floxie; nutrient deficiencies are the root cause of most of our problems, therefore reducing my nutrients to nothing sounds like a terrible idea, however fasting stimulates autophagy!: Where the body begins to clean out the old, unwanted, and unneeded cellular material, as well as fixing and recycling damaged parts.

    So I am wondering how on earth this antibiotic can still be effecting me 6 years later and I am reading it causes mitochondria damage.. Seems logical to me that to heal I need to concentrate on reversing this damage. Voila: Autophagy.

    I have took your advice on board about the length of the fast and thank you for giving me a steady head. After all the reason why my symptoms flared up so badly again was due to returning to exercising like I did when I was 22 years old, with no gradual build up just overtraining right off the bat. (I am also grateful for the experience as the resulting tendon problems made me research about cipro and what lasting damage can occur – to my initial horror)

    It is life changing.. but for me it is the perfect excuse to be clean as a whistle healthy!! No drugs, no booze, no sugar and only organic vegetables, nuts seeds etc, good fats and clean water and strict supplements that detox the body. Its what I also wanted but lacked the motivation for.

    Autophagy can be achieved by intermittent fasting which is what I do most of the time anyway and a long term fast can be imitated by being in ketosis, which i will be striving to be in as often as possible by eliminating gluten and non complex carbs. So there are other options for healing my cells and prolonging life.

    I am currently 48 hours into my fast drinking only water – laced with liquid magnesium and sodium. I had fasciculation in my abdomen last night but its has stopped now, I was imagining it was my intestines pumping out any lingering cipro ( read an article from a dr who had cipro poisonng and he reckoned it makes a cavity in the intestines where t is stored) I think it can be explained by my body reacting to lack of nutrients but I am focusng the power of my mind on healing so i am going with my theory I cleaning and renewing my body!

    Many experts agree that the autophagy process initiates in humans after 18-20 hours of fasting, with maximal benefits occurring once the 48–72 hour mark has been reached.

    My initial aim was begin fasting wednesday night, Thursday will feel like a normal intermittent fasting day then get through friday as one unpleasant day in work then its weekend! Judge on Sunday whether to break fast for returning to work on monday. Now I think I may end it at the 72 hour mark (saturday night) I don’t want to over do it like you say and I have had no tests done so any longer is irresponsible.

    Oh and the borax!! Is a miracle!! My ankles and achilles are so much better!!! I can sleep without a pillow under them again!

    Next up is tendon rehab!

    Stay positive everyone!

    • Andrea November 27, 2020 at 11:41 am Reply

      Hey Juju, I’m glad you’ve found my advice helpful. Yeah, I’ve read a lot about autophagy, hoping that it could help me, but it didn’t. By the way, a 72 hrs water fast is a terrific achievment, and hopefully you’ll feel better, just don’t go too overboard, if you start feeling like crap before the 72 hrs mark, just start to eat again, but remember, no binge eating, give your body the time to readapt to food, and no junk food or animal products in the first 24hrs. Maybe start with vegetable soups, fruits, then start to add fats again like peanut butter or almonds and remember : small portions!
      Oh, and let us know how it ended up for you.

      • Juju November 27, 2020 at 9:23 pm Reply

        I am at 63 hours mark. I feel fantastic! I just walked the dog and was aware I lacked energy but being able to walk without the achilles pain is just wonderful on its own.

        My eyesight is so good right now i feel like its better than 20/20 vision.

        Hunger ‘pains’ are much less frequent.

        Still have the globus sensation in my esophagus and the shoulder tendinitis/tendinosis though. Im gonna change my eating habits to smaller meals and neck stretches and do rehab therapy too for shoulder!! Being a floxie is a full time job eh?

        Good news is the fast has not exacerbated any symptoms !!

        I have been drinking San Benedetto / Evian or when in work there is Reverse osmosis (which is supposedly fluoride free) but i take my own bottle with magnesium liquid inside (RE-mag).

        IF i break fast tonight (72 hour mark) I will do it by first having bone broth (I live in S>E Asia and Pho is everywhere!!) I think and some omegas, to keep myself in ketosis. BUT as it will be 8:40 pm I might just hold out for one more sleep! That way I can break it tomorrow day time when the local vegan cafe is open and have their Kefir probiotic drink!! I think starting again by building my gut flora is gonna be perfect!

        Im moving away from worrying about cell damage because its hopeless and moving towards the gut isnt doing its job properly.

        Is anyone aware of the recently discovered connection between mold and being floxed?

        Also Im confused about iron. Some say good some say VERY bad along with Oxalates as it causes high Ferrin levels. (and heres me thinking spinach was a superfood *facepalm*)

        I am developing orthorexia I know but I just want to get this right. Only when I have full understanding can I start to completely relax.

        • Andrea November 28, 2020 at 5:42 am

          Hi Juju, that’s great! I’m really happy that fasting it’s working for you. Remember, as Dr Valter Longo says, the refeeding process it’s even more important than the fast itself. That’s when the cells in your body would absorb everything you feed them after a period of starvation.
          It’s strange how we’re all damaged by the same poison, but we react so differently. Like I wrote earlier, in my case fasting only make me feel weaker and in more pain, but who knows, maybe in a week or two I might give it another try, I don’t know.

          Now about iron : for what I understand, iron, like zinc and other minerals, it’s very important, but you shouldn’t take too much of it. Some doctors belive it promotes acidity in your blood, and that’s not a good thing, as it promotes inflammation, thus cancer. That’s why, most of the time, people recommend to eat less meat. Meat = lots of iron. I suggest you to do a blood screaning (minerals, vitamins and so on) and see if you have deficencies or not, then decide what you should or shouldn’t be supplementing. That’s just my advice, of course.

          I never heard about the connection between mold and being floxed, can you elaborate on it please?

          Lastly, about food and orthorexia, my suggestion is to defently be careful about what you eat, find out what foods seem to help and what not, but don’t too crazy with it either, remember, worry too much about somehting, causes stress, and that’s another thing you want to avoid.

  7. Juju November 28, 2020 at 7:26 am Reply

    Thanks again Andrea!

    I am now at the 72 hours mark WOO HOO! Which is supposed to be full immune system reset mark! I have decided to sleep on it and break tomorrow.

    I read watermelon is the most popular choice to break fast. I bought an organic pineapple before my fast and forgot to eat it so if thats still good tomorrow then I think pineapple and probiotic natural yoghurt. Then later l’ll go to a local cafe which does kefir drink and a veggie bowl containing tempeh . spinach . sesame pumpkin . quinoa . brown rice . red pepper hummus . fermented pickled beetroot . ginger . sauerkraut . cashew cheese . activated almonds . salad. It might be too big though so I may change my mind.

    would ideally like to stay in ketosis so maybe ditch the brown rice quinoa bowl and have bone broth instead and drink some healthy fats / take omegas. I really want all those probiotics though (kefir, Sauerkraut, fermented pickle beets,) but there is always the next day!

    Here is a link to the doctors youtube account whom is looking at mold exposure, he is on-going in the pursuit of finding solutions to being floxed and I think its well worth subscribing:


    Ive read contradictory things about iron, actually ive read contradicting things about everything but as you say we are all different and being floxed was a genetic thing to begin with.

    You said you were okay with 24 hour fast.. so why not just do one day a week? Or Intermittent. Or build up your tolerance with intermittent. (I should note.. for anyone that may read my experience and try it themselves that I have built up to this fast with intermittent fasting gradually making my break fast later and later, I haven’t just dived in)

    From my research every floxie should be doing intermittent fasting allowing insulin levels and glucose stores to drop before eating. Intermittent fasting and HIIT. Our bodies don’t come from a long history of convenience stores on every corner this is quite unnatural.

    Oh and yes I am trying to de-stress but I was a health freak and hypochondriac before being floxed so.. you can only imagine how many laps my head is doing digesting the fact ive been spoon fed chemotherapy.

    • Andrea November 28, 2020 at 10:18 am Reply

      Thank for the link Juju, I’ll look it up…
      I was very into fitness and training myself, but have to drasticly slow it down after being floxed 4 years ago. I was 30. Now I still try to do something. I’m into hill walking (and sometimes, jogging, if I feel good that day) now. I walk on a very steep hill everyday, and I walk at least 10 km everyday, sometimes more. May I ask you how old are you now and when did you get floxed?
      To answer your question, I sometimes do a 24hrs fast, but, as you pointed out in another post, the peak of the benefits from fasting are obteined after 72 hrs, but yeah, even 24 hrs every week could be still something.
      Oh, another thing I’d like to ask you, what kind of intermittent fasting do you follow?
      I usually stay with the 12/12 fasting and it’s good for me.

      • Juju November 29, 2020 at 8:41 am Reply

        We are the same age and got floxed around the same time 🙂

        There are still plenty of benefits to intermittent fasting and also from being in ketosis. I ideally would like to be on a keto diet permanently but its easier said than done, especially as there are fruits I feel i should be eating like blueberries.that have high fructose. Well actually its easy.. only buy keto! So many probiotics have sugar added though its a nightmare I wanted to buy kimchi but read the packet and it said sugar in it for example. I bought kambucha and it contained cane sugar. Most kefir drinks too.

        I used to train at 12.00 and break fast around 1.30 / 2.00 ish and wasn’t too obsessed with my last meal time as i would definitely get at least 12 hours to lower insulin levels. NOW I have this lovely Globus pharyngis/ dysphagia in my throat and issues with my esophagus which im treating as acid reflux or GERD so.. I need smaller portion meals and to have an empty stomach 3 hours before bed meaning its back to the drawing board. Being floxed is a poly-therapy headache eh? 9 hour window so I can get 3 meals or maybe 4 small. Im also trying to be as alkaline as possible to avoid the acid reflux. The alkaline water is costing me a fortune though.

        Of course it may not be acid reflux but a symptom of a neurological disease but theres no use dwelling on negatives when there is a benign explanation I can focus on.

        Sorry you cant train anymore 😦 try yoga! Personally Ive repaired my ankles and achilles so Im gonna resume cardio and im gonna rehab my shoulder tendinitis and get back to weights. I’m certainly not giving up, lll just find my limit rather than my old way of training which was to constantly push past the limit and avoid overhead pressing.

        It is my understanding that cipro damages the cerebellum (little brain) which sends signals to the big brain, so signals are not being sent efficiently which is the reason for fatigue or fibromyalgia because our brain is working extra hard.. but to me thats different to physical fatigue so I wont be held back. Actually I wont be held back by any of it! I’m studying Chinese and Korean and 2 years into learning piano. I already became fluent in speaking reading and writing Khmer in the last 3 years so.. its not killed off my brain yet.

        Like I said in a previous post we need to constantly be improving something and learning, have goals and be steadily progressing towards a worthy ideal. Feed the mind.

  8. Don M November 28, 2020 at 3:44 pm Reply

    Whether you believe COVID-19 is a serious health threat to society or not, one thing we all can agree on is that there is no long-term health information available. We do not have the luxury of historical data. Will those who seemingly had no initial reaction to the virus, come down with something serious, months or years down the road? Only time will tell. https://www.myquinstory.info/covid-19-fluoroquinolones-and-the-long-haulers/?fbclid=IwAR0t86LHMDiA0ac57iaucPW22Xy19eMbHbibDSmd14g3s9w9VCccKo03fwA
    As I understand it the vaccine research is centered around breaking the RNA of the virus. This looks like it will not bode well for anyone who is a floxie or who has taken a Fluoroquinolone.
    Will you take a shot of the vaccine?

    • Madge Hirsch November 30, 2020 at 2:37 pm Reply

      I am not inclined to get vaccinated at the moment. I had a flu shot in 2010 which was the first year they put the H1N1 strain into the seasonal vaccine. I was unwell for the winter and early spring with what I now recognise as possible floxing symptoms and wonder if this could have been a reactivation of a previous floxing. At five and a half years out from my last exposure to Cipro I am starting to have more time between cycles and feel a lot less crap when they do come -despite facing having both hips replaced and on and off pain from cartilage degeneration in my ribs. I am terrified of doing anything to set this back.

  9. John Taylor November 29, 2020 at 7:49 am Reply

    Hi All,

    I have been learning what a higher dose of Borax can do. Below is an updated protocol for removing the antibiotics and biocides that keep us in Floxie land.

    Borax Protocol
    Borax is toxic if you take a high enough dose. Low doses are not toxic. These words don’t contain enough information but often that is all one absorbs when reading articles to decide if one should take Borax to remove the toxins responsible for antibiotic toxicity or being a Floxie. The real perspective can’t be described in black or white terms. It is a matter of degree. It has to done in mathematical terms.
    Borax is mildly toxic. 1/16 of a teaspoon daily is hardly noticeable but will take months to remove azithromycin and other antibiotics that are not removed safely by Magnesium. 1/4 teaspoon daily has noticeable toxicity but will remove the Floxie toxins quickly. You can’t stay on ¼ for a long time. You need to stop and restore the Borax damage with supplements.
    Whatever dose of Borax you decide to use you need to switch back and forth. For low doses such as 1/16th switching after 8 hours will remove the toxins. At lot of the Borax and supplements are wasted this way as Borax is consumed by the leftover supplements and then the Borax is removed when you restart the supplements. For the 1/4th dose, four days of Borax will remove approximately 6 months of the 1/16th treatment. Then recovering from the Borax damage can occur in a few days.
    So what is the damage that is likely to occur? Borax removes oils including Vitamin A and E. Borax kills viruses by dissolving the protective oil layer viruses have. Borax also removes the brain’s oil layer aggravating diabetes. If you use oil for fueling your brain and heart, you can’t avoid oil for very long. But you can get the benefits of removing the residual antibiotics, Glucophage (Roundup), and other biocides stuck on the surface of our cells. These things are damaging you on an ongoing basis anyway and that is why the Floxie feeling remains. The question is can you stand the little damage Borax does temporarily to remove the greater damage the antibiotics are doing.
    Borax management is likely individual depending on how severe your Floxie damage is. A good suggestion is start with 1/16th dose per day of Borax for four days. Put that in 12 ounces and drink it throughout the day. Avoid all oils and supplements for these four days. Observe if you feel any degradation. Restart the supplementation process that has been helping you by drinking 3 ounces of olive oil to remove the residual Borax, and wait four hours to start the supplements. Keep supplementing until you are robust enough to do another Borax removal session. Take your time. When you have recovered based on what you feel start another Borax removal session. Increase the amount of daily Borax gradually but stop at ¼ teaspoon daily.
    The highest amount of Borax you can tolerate will remove the most Floxie toxins in the shortest period of time. It is a total absorption amount. A ¼ teaspoon per day is a very effective removal rate. The number of days you can do this determines how much of the Floxie toxins you have removed in this session. Four days can be very significant.
    I have seen significant improvement in organs. My daily temperature graph increased from 2.7 degree cold to 1.0 degrees cold. The poor circulation in my feet is almost gone. Plus I am no longer gluten intolerant. I made no progress on any of these for the last 10 months. We’re all different so you may have other signs. Please share your story so the group gets stronger. I’ll be interested to hear other people’s results to establish a range for toxin removal.

    I feel much more grounded in using Borax. I am always open to trying another removal method. The recenet post on fasting have caught my attention. Has anybody rid themselves of teh Floxie feeling. If so, how long did it take?

    John Taylor The Healthy Truth

    • Andrea November 29, 2020 at 2:37 pm Reply

      Hi John. After all this borax/boron talking in the last few posts, I’ve decided to give boron a try. I’m also taking a multimineral together with it. I don’t konw if it’s going to do something for me, it’s too early to say, I’ve been taking it for only a couple of days. I’m taking 3mg of boron at night with the multimineral (both from Solgar) and in the morning I take my vitamin D3 with k2. I’ve read boron helps raise vitamin levels in the blood. Anyway, next time I’m going to buy a mineral/multimineral supplement, I’m going to buy the liquid ionic version of it.
      They say it has a way greater absorbtion rate.
      Trace Minerals have a good selection of this kind of stuff and the price it’s good too.
      There’s one thing I want to ask you anyway : how did you come up with this borax protocol in the first place? Why did you choose borax, what’s the reason?
      Thank you, Andrea.

      • John Taylor November 30, 2020 at 6:07 am Reply

        Hi Andrea,
        This Borax/Boron Discussion has prompted me to try Boron supplements, not to remove toxins but as part of the repair efforts for the wide-ranging damage antibiotics have caused.
        About 1.5 years back I was first introduced to Borax as a general tonic by my Natural Doctor. He gave me a paper recommending this and said he found it beneficial. tI was a recommendation he was making to many patients. Dr. Podkul is a very successful ND with patients traveling 200 miles to see him. He is one reason I have overcome Cipro toxicity. However, this recommendation was not based on the concept Borax would remove Azithromycin. I tried the 1/16th of a teaspoon dosage, but stopped as it was way to painful for my stomach ulcer caused by Gabapentin.
        My Magnesium foot soaks were also hurting my ulcer. Shorty after that I decided I had to cure this ulcer next. Part of the cure is to stop all irritations, so I had to stop all magnesium supplementation. As magnesium is an important repair chemical and I needed extensive repairs, this was tradeoff of going backwards in one area to go forward in another. Mango puree is an ulcer healing agent and by avoiding hurting the ulcer from any chemical source, eating a little at a time to not stretch the stomach lining, the ulcer healed in about two months.
        A year ago, I had to remove the Azithromycin or die by diabetes. Below my calves, I was shoe polish black, cold and numb, plus my vision was getting blurry and I lost half my remaining hearing. My fasting blood glucose was 260 and slowly rising. Podkul recommended activated charcoal. This saved me and brought the glucose down to 220. My feet were slowly were recovering and my vision got sharper.
        Activated charcoal is an extreme treatment. It remains in your digestive tract removes all organic compounds from the water entering the small intestines and leaving the large intestines. So, you cannot take any supplements or oil at that time. They will blind the charcoal. Oil is an important fuel source I use to lower my blood glucose level. One needs to do this for 4 days just to get the activated charcoal fully through the digestive tract. One takes the charcoal for a week and on day 11 it is out of your system and you can supplement again. I did this once and realized it would be difficult to remove all the azithromycin this way.
        I looked at the prescription literature for clues to find another removal agent. It said avoid aluminum and calcium as it reduced the effectiveness of the Azithromycin. If you think about that, while important to state, it is also silly. We always have calcium in our blood stream and aluminum supplements are illegal now, as Aluminum is toxic. Aluminum used to be in Tums but not today. However, this was a clue. Aluminum is a positive ion with a charge of plus 3. Positive ions are antioxidants and all antibiotics and biocides are oxidants. So, I looked at the periodic table for other pus 3 atoms. Boron is below Aluminum on the periodic table and therefor stronger as the electrons are closer to the nucleus. The Boron +3 ion is extremely toxic. Boric acid will kill you quickly. Boron supplements are salts that must not present a +3 Boron state to be able to be used by our bodies.
        So now a light goes on. Borax is so called also a safe form. Let’s look at its chemical structure to see if it would attack/remove azithromycin. Bingo, yes, perfect. Borax has a chemical structure with three Borons and three carbons. It has a ring structure with electron sharing – the Borons have to pull the electron cloud to them and they still want more electrons being a positive ion. Only two Borons in this structure can present themselves as positive ions in solution and Borax is a very stable organic compound with a plus 2 charge – one each at opposite ends. That means one can attach at any double bond site of Azithromycin’s 22, and the other will be oriented outwards making it soluble. Once you start breaking double bonds in a ring structure, electon sharing stop at those carbons and the azithromycin looses its toxicity.
        I started taking the 1/16th dose and two weeks later I felt better and my fasting glucose levels started to go down. 10 months later I lost the Floxie feeling. A month after that I finished codifying what I knew into a book. With a protocol now clarified, I stated blogging and got a big payback when Don M brought forward an article that said to use 1/4th a teaspoon daily. After two sessions my thyroid function, which had not improved to 10 months, improved about 2/3 of the way to be fully functional.
        So that is how I “discovered” Borax with as the Beatles sing “I get by with a little help from my friends.”
        One final note. I don’t think Bpron supplements are the right chemical form to remove all the Floxie toxins BUT I say “Theory is nice, data is better.” Maybe you would like to contribute the answer to this question. Try the Boron supplements for two months, if you don’t see a major reduction in the Floxie feeling, try the Borax switching protocol for a month. Then tell us what you prefer. If the supplements are even just good enough, that is a big contribution as I suspect they are less toxic that Borax so one could remove the Floxie toxins while continuing to supplement.
        Love this blog,

        John Taylor

        • Andrea November 30, 2020 at 2:53 pm

          I will report my experience with boron after at least 2 months. Thank you

        • Tuula December 1, 2020 at 3:06 pm

          If anyone has any theories or suggestions, after reading the following, please share. One would think after 4.5 years my body would show some sign of healing. I feel like I am being viciously poisoned everyday and it builds up with time. I will likely try again the Borax protocol as updated. The magnesium supplementation itself seemed very super toxic… likely too much for my body to handle, or the fact they are synthetic? (I seem to not do well with supplements that aren’t whole foods?). It’s like magnesium takes the toxins for a joy ride, it’s unbelieveable the excruciating muscle pain I’m dealing with still since taking magnesium (tried malate, glycinate, citrate, mg+taurine) Nov 4- Nov 26th). Even one dose of Mg L-threonate on Nov 20th seemed to heavily affect my brain… it was scary (my whole body is scary) I had like 2 mini strokes on Nov 21, one on Nov 22, another Nov 23, + wierd headaches, now more problems thinking/spelling… it’s like Mg L-threonate took toxins past the blood-brain barrier and caused havoc in my brain… I keep a diary… this type of symptom was completely new, easy to pinpoint cause.

          I’m on a clean, organic diet. Currently severe muscle/vascular pain in my lower legs (like they are being beaten/strangled/oxygen deprived), stinging neuropathy vicious in my feet (but also throughout legs, + elsewhere, brain has problems finding words, misspelling/thinking, ringing & pulsatile tinnitus, aches/pains -sometimes left kidney area, liver area, stomach, pancreas, muscles, gut, etc. Note: in 2016 after taking nitrofurantoin… I was having bizarre incidents like suddenly didn’t even know how to use a credit card at a gas station pump, drove off instead, severe headaches, the neuropathy, tinnituses, muscle pain and spasms, trigger finger, etc.). Latest new symptom… last night.. ice feet, sweaty upper body… typically it’s one or the other and more widespread… anyways this is a quick recent history…

          Nov 3 – crying… hell… as if toxins released but not neutralized -likely because the day before I had taken 2(accidentally)- 60 mg theracumin- (note: theracumin I take occassionally, it lowers my slightly elevated immune system markers but yet at the same time makes me feel super toxic, yet it was one of the only things (other than diet) that helped in the beginning when my feet burned so bad I couldn’t feel anything, nor brain would allow me to sleep)
          Nov 4 – soaked in tub epson salts, some Mg chloride
          Nov 6 – nerves crackling as walking, Mg malate, soaked in tub epsom salts, some Mg chloride, bleeding gums, muscle pains
          Nov 7 BORAX #1, Mg malate, later developed 3 painful bruises near left knee (like I was viciously attacked from within (has happened before yet I have no blood clotting issues, am considered “healthy”)… these bruises continued for many days (I know when I am super toxic when these spontaneous bruises take forever to heal), very painful, the largest, most painful bruise, left a patch of bumpy varicose viens behind (I never had varicose viens prior to my 2016 drug reaction (was healthy, normal)… I know this toxicity is causing vascular damage… I have watched my legs be destroyed, it’s scary to feel, watch, even how my nails changed, clubbing toenails, all vertical ridges, etc.)
          Nov 8 – not a good sign- tight shiny skin ends of fingers, above cuticles…. this is a sign of lymphatic infiltration (have had this symptom in the past, biopsied, I do not have an autoimmune disease yet my immune system is constantly reacting like as if to an infection, even as per bone biopsy… high M:E ratio). It’s as if my body continues to react to the toxins which I can not clear, because soon I also developed swelling lower legs as if the body’s way to trying to neutralize the toxins when I’m super toxic (being regular toxic is horrible enough). In the past lower legs have swollen like painful beaten water balloons…

          In the end I have taken 11 doses of Borax (the 1/16th amount, from Nov 7 to Nov 29th), tried/stopped magnesium, am now taking some milk thistle capsules, and occassionally l-glutathione pump now… but my leg muscles/viens are in much pain as I write this… I have some genetic polymorphisms in relation to liver detox particularly PON1 Q192R which is known to cause an impaired ability to deal with organophosphates/pesticides and may be part of my problem. I am going to try to naturally help this with pomegranate juice, and quercitin and astaxanthin rich foods, perhaps krill oil…. apparently these should help, someone with the PON1 issues needs a good detox…no kidding.

          I feel hopeful thanks to you all!

        • Andrea December 1, 2020 at 7:07 pm

          Hey Tuula, I really don’t know what to suggest you, since we all react differently after being damged by the same poison. I can tell you this : In a few weeks it will be my 4th “anniversary”. My main problems now are the following : low to moderate neuropathic pain mostly in my lower legs ankles area, bladder problems/chronic pelvic pain (I’ve had already some problems there but they have grealty increased after taking the FQ course), that keep me from sleeping at night, and, since almost 2 years gut problems, that started after taking the wrong probiotic blend. The worst moment of this miserable journey was after 5 or 6 months after I took the fluoriquinolone. The symptoms at that time were bladder/pelvic pain, so no sleep too and orrific pain in my lower legs/ankles but also many other parts (wrists,shoulders) also chronic fatigue, shortness of breath and dizziness. I remember, right after being floxed, I was taking magnesium regulary, but I always felt it was doing more harm than good. I really don’t know why. I’ve read that some of us can have this problem. I sometimes take a multimineral and some extra magnesium today, but it started to help after a few months, not immediately, like I wrote earlier. One thing that really helped me was vitamin D3 (with k2 for better absorbtion). I take it everyday in the winter time, in the sumemrtime I try to expose myself to the sun everyday. It really seems to keep the joint/bone pain at bay. For me the really healing process started when I realized what was really hurting me. The number one thing I avoid is coffee or every caffeinated product, including sodas or iced tea. Junk food doesn’t bother me now, but at that time, when I started eating really healthy (lots of vegetables and fruits, healhty carbs no sugar or dairy plus some fish) it really helped my healing process. Be carefoul with supplements, sometimes, like I wrote, in the hope of finding the thing that would help us, we end up hurting our self ever more.

        • Tuula December 3, 2020 at 8:02 am

          Thank you Andrea. It helps very much to speak with you and also reading these other recent posts. I think borax may help (no magnesium), but hard to know because I had taken both at the same time.

          It seems I have to unintentionally hurt myself in order to learn what might help (via NDs/supplements especially), yet knock on wood, my body still finds a way to keep going. (still have headaches right now though, thinking issues, and the crazy, almost all night insomnia has settled down a bit, and the muscle pain is not as bad – re: magnesium/borax session experiment.) I need to be much more careful…taking magnesium was a massive wake up call and whether the borax was part of it, not sure. This is such a battle on so many levels, trying to cope with being part of life/ my family, and especially trying to cope 24/7 with these pains and symptoms and then trying to figure out how to help my body/stay alive. I am dumbfounded, horrified, furious by how this happened and is happening, has happened to others,,, how massive the ignorance is when it comes to drugs… how drugs lead to needlessly suffering, time lost, and innocent deaths. The aftermath of those types of deaths impacts the lives of others forever. No one should go through what we are going through. I hate that my family now for 4.5 years has had to suffer with me, life is far too short and should be happy. Nutrition should be the cornerstone of health “care”, not drugs, yet physician’s don’t care about nutrition, I have had more drugs offered to me since this happened, even other antibiotics (for no valid reason based on no test result… offered like candy)… never, ever again. Nutrition is key… whole foods, yet my body just needs some help… boron? borax? or good diet all the way or ??. Thank you again for keeping me fired up! : )

        • Attila December 25, 2020 at 2:46 pm

          For Tuula! 🙂
          I’m 3 years post flox. I went trough lot of strange brain issues. Even yesterday when i was sleep during the night i woke up because of strange colored fractal patterns in my eyes and a humming sound in my ears. So i think it is a relapse again. Sometimes before falling asleep i hear voices like a gun fire. sh(i)t… 3 years ago I was so healthy. But i don’t give up. It will pass, our body will repair itself.

        • Tuula December 26, 2020 at 1:03 am

          Hello Attila,

          It was kind of you to speak out to me. Thank you. We’re lucky to have found this blog. Back in July 2016 after taking macrobid, at first I suddenly couldn’t eat, it was like food was electrocuting me (dairy, gluten, lectins), like toxins were damaging every vein, muscle, nerve, vision, hearing, brain, etc. Immediately after macrobid I also went to my family physician, re: neuropathy, no help, then a few days later to the ER, re: ear/neck pain, more symptoms, no help, then within 2 weeks began the ringing, in 4 weeks the pulsatile tinnitus, edema, nail changes, feet/hands red, on fire episodes, body like a popping popcorn machine, blossoming varicose viens (never had before), etc. I could never have imagined becoming this sick, the dangers, and all the ignorance. I pushed for special blood tests, biopsies, etc. … told myself there is no way in hell I can be this sick and be “healthy” that no blood test nor biopsy can’t even pick up on this. There were abnormalities ie: immune system reacting yet I have no autoimmune disease, etc.- this is a healthy body that’s become toxic. Perhaps this might be as simple as just trying to help the liver more. (my liver markers are healthy except GGT is abnormally low which no physician seems to think is of concern yet GGT is what combines toxins with glutathione, my glutathione levels are normal, and any supplementation ie: NAC I simply overdose on, so is it this enzyme? Could this be as simple as my liver couldn’t/still can’t detoxify/protect my body? because it seems this was never been mitochondria related (according to OATs test), until I took supplements, then that changed. It also wasn’t until trying a few coffee enemas did I feel a mild, brief, positive change (never with colonics), which again makes me think is this simply liver related (in the meantime I am testing to see if coffee enemas are safe for me). Trying to fix pill damage with other types of pills/supplements has not worked for me yet I do take sometimes curcumin, vit D, cod liver oil. Clean simple organic whole food/nutrition, nothing else, I know has kept me alive, yet I see no end to my symptoms. The borax, magnesium, not for me, slowly my bowels, brain, muscles recovering to pre borax state (in total had ingested 3/4 tsp of the borax from 12 oz of the mixture). Seems if my liver can’t handle toxins, adding another one like borax not a good idea? despite all that was said? It’s frustrating to hear people finding solutions, yet their solutions nor a paid naturopath’s prescribed solutions never working for me. Trying a few more things, but on a much safer side, in the new year.

          Merry Christmas everyone,

        • Attila December 26, 2020 at 8:02 am

          Hi Tuula!

          Yes i know… i went trough all of this stuff. I couldn’t use my right arm for two years. Every lift hurt a lot. But that wasn’t the hardest thing for me. The worst part was that I was mentally falling apart.

          I moved away from the outside world and didn’t recognize myself many times in the mirror. Sometimes I talked back and forth about crazy things. In my first year, my sleep was catastrophic. At night I saw flashes of light in the dark with my eyes open. I heard voices and hallucinated.

          I had insomnia… 8 days without 0 sleeping. Even if I could sleep a little, I had nightmares. My body trembled, my face tickled. Nothing helped, I was like a vegetative zombie. But there was so much strength in me that I told myself it would be better in the evening, or tomorrow, or next year. Since then, my body has improved a lot, but sometimes the symptoms return fluctuatingly.

          Unfortunately no vitamins helped me. Whatever I tried I immediately became ill. So I could only get the vitamin in its natural form. Pumpkin seeds, lemon, lots of fruits and vegetables.

          PS: for two and a half years I had a constant ringing in my ears – the worst tinnitus I ever had and didn’t stop for a minute. It got better about half a year ago – so two and a half years constant tinnitus. I felt I was going crazy 🙂 I listened white noises from youtube.

          We are going through a very difficult period. But we have to believe that it will pass once. Time heals us!

          Merry Christmas!

  10. A November 29, 2020 at 7:08 pm Reply

    Has anyone had RA type symptoms after taking cipro?

    • John Taylor November 30, 2020 at 6:08 am Reply


      what are the RA symptoms?

      • A November 30, 2020 at 8:56 am Reply

        Hi John Rheumatoid Arthritis. I’m asking because when I took cipro I went to a Rheumatologist had tests some test Ted positive then tested negative. Never had issues until I took the cipro. So I was wondering had this happened to anyone else with these antibiotics.

      • A November 30, 2020 at 1:33 pm Reply

        Hi John – my hands hurt like off and on I took cipro back in 2013. I also sit at a computer everyday at work typing and I’m always scrolling the internet with my phone so now my hands are beginning to hurt.

        • John Taylor November 30, 2020 at 7:40 pm

          Hi A,

          I had a mild case of OA for 20 years and found releif with what I called a grease job. I would avoid all carbs for three days and then eat a pound or two of cashews. The oil isn’t converted to fat as there are no carbs in your blood and my hands would feel better. I bacame a Floxie from Cipro and the arthristis became a major issue. eventially I learned to grow cartiledge and it is largely gone. Now it is one of the first signs for me of magnesium defficiency.

          RA is more complex and described as an autoimune disease. But as the fluroquinolones steal magnesium and Vitamin from all parts of your body it will agrevate your weakest area first in your case RA.

          Since Cipro agrevated it removing the Cipro, should help but the Floxie effect results from the accumulation over a lifetime of all antibiotics and biocides. Our food supply is the major source of these. Once Floxed, one needs to remove all these things. Cipro is easily removed with high concentrations of Magnesium in your blood which is best done by soaking a foot in a bucket of water with Espsom salt crystals remaining of the bottom – a saturated solution. It takes four days soaking for 15 minutes per day. Unfortunately the other toxins can only be removed by Borax as far as I know. There is a lot of dicussion on this subject on the blog right now. Maybe we will find a better treatment.

          I would suggest the following steps in order of priority.
          1 – Start removing all toxins from you body. The blog contains a lot of information on this. However there is more information in my book, better than blog writings and in a logical order. There is a sequence to repairs. OA appears about page 50 out of 90. RA isn’t in it.
          2- Take Quercetin. It is the best anti-inflammatory..
          3- Go to Dr Rind’s website. He is a Natural Doctor in the Baltimore area. The website is extensive. http://www.drrind.com He may have information about RA. Look for his temperature graph. It monitors the health of your organs that make the chemistry we need to heal oursweves. Specifically the thyroid and adrenal glands. If you have a fatty liver, that has to be unclogged to function properly. The liver is our main chemical plant that makes micronutrients to heal things.
          4. Search for a Natural Doctor near you.
          5. Keep blogging here. Someone with more direct experience may come forward to help you. In any event your story will teach others and they may discover something that helps.

          This blog is powerful group think. It helped save my life.

          John Taylor – The Healthy Truth

  11. RS G November 30, 2020 at 5:30 pm Reply

    In 2014 I took Avelox. After a few doses I found myself on crutches with a nearly ruptured Achilles. I’ve obviously stay away from all Fluoroquinolones since. Fast forward to today… I have had multiple sinus surgeries (have helped) but still get sinus infections. I recently found out that I have a bug that only fluoroquinolones will cure. My ENT is aware of and respects my issue but is pushing me to take topical Levaquin (via Neil Med rinse bottle). I’ve said no because of my concerns that (1) some could get into my stomach and (2) even topically I’m concerned it could cause me issues. The problem is… there aren’t many options to treat the bacteria in my sinus — I continue to ask doctors and pharmacists. What would you do?

    • selcem December 1, 2020 at 12:37 am Reply

      Hello RS G,

      In terms of recurring sinusitis, I am in same situation. 2 years ago I got 3 weeks of clarithromycn and did not have any positive impact on my sinusitis, then doctor prescribed me levquin+ nasal corticosteraoid and next day I was not able to walk. Even 1 dose of levaquin cleared my sinusitis but it always reoccurs now. And I can’t use any of antibiotics, maybe I will go through surgery also as you did but I need to find out root cause of it. At least I can tell you staying away from gluten, sugar, spices and much grain helps to reduce symptoms. I do mouthwash with sage tea to stop drain to throat. Also, I think mine is very much related to allergy (chemical cleaners flare) , maybe yours also. And you can control your teeth decay issues also, as it might be an underlying reason. So, I am trying to remove all possible underlying reasons (allergy, gut problems, tooth decay issues) to prevent recurrence.
      I hope this helps to you also.
      Also, I think oregano oil helped clearing my sinusitis last year, maybe you could try that also. Starting with 1 drop, because it gave me badly allergic reaction while most can tolerate it.


      • Madge Hirsch December 1, 2020 at 9:33 am Reply

        30 years ago I had recurring sinusitis. I was given antibiotics. I now believe this was my first encounter with Cipro as shortly after I had problems with Achilles tendon though luckilg no rupture. This was followed by severe back and knee problems , low blood sugar and the onset of hypothyroidism. The sinusitis came back every time. I was offered sinus surgery. I chose acupuncture. Resolution of sinusitis. It was unpleasant as the needles were inserted into my face. However the surgery sounded worse.

    • Aga December 1, 2020 at 1:41 am Reply

      Hi RS G,

      I would stay away from any fluoroquinolone. You need to look for alternatives. For sinusitis I recommend, sea salt with hyaluronic acid to clean the sinuses, propolis (its honeybee product, so please check you are not allergic first) and oil pulling to get rid of bacteria. It takes time, but it worked for me.


    • lymedefeaterpassionate December 4, 2020 at 6:00 pm Reply

      Reach out to someone who truly truly understands essential oils…I may be able to recommend someone and you should get tested for Lyme disease and mold in your urine

  12. John Taylor November 30, 2020 at 8:47 pm Reply

    Hi RS G,

    try these options before taking an antibiotic. Do the doctors talk at about your cause?
    Hi RS G

    1- Redoxa is an herbal decongestant that makes a very thin mucus that flushes out the thick stuff that won’t discharge and causes congestion ->infection. Dr. D-Adamo http://www.4yourtype.com call 877-226-8973 and you will talk to a triage nurse who will take your symptoms and recommend. have your credit card ready as she will take an order.
    2- Use a Netty pot. Make sure the salt is high enough that it hurts a little. It is an unnatural act but the salt draws out water freeing the congestion from the nasal tissue and you snort it out.
    3- I’ve never done this, but after 2 you can try rinsing your sinuses with water and Vodka Vodka kills bacteria but I image rinsing with straight Vodak could be violent so start slowly. I have cleared tooth root infections by soaking my gums with Vodka.
    4- Check out food intolerance as a cause as this can cause congestion. Google food intolerance elimination diets.
    5- See an allergist to rule out that cause.

    I used to be gluten and soy intolerant. Treating the infection with antibiotics and not getting to the root cause must have pushed me into becoming a Floxie. It is the total amount of antibiotic and biocides accumulating inside our bodies that makes us become Floxies and enter the no-known-treatment world. Two weeks back when Borax removed another quantity of these toxins, my food intolerance disappeared. Not magic but my thyroid, adrenal glands, and liver started functioning better. my temperature was running 2.7 degree cold and now is only 0.7 degree cold.

    6- Finally if all else fails, ask your doctor about Clindamycin. It has a low molecular weight similar to Cipro but no fluorine atoms so it does less damage. Commonly used for skin infections. It may be removed with magnesium, I’ll know late next week when I get the removal data.

    Lots of luck or lots of Love, LOL
    John Taylor

  13. John Taylor December 1, 2020 at 8:00 am Reply

    RS G,

    I forgot Vitamin C is antibacterial – 3000 Mg per day. You can’t overdose this.

    John Taylor

    • Barbara Arnold December 1, 2020 at 9:50 am Reply

      You have to be careful with VitC if you have to much iron. VitC helps with iron absorbtion. Okay if you need help with iron absorbtion.

  14. Aga December 1, 2020 at 9:50 am Reply

    Hi guys,

    Has any of you tried low-oxalate diet?

    Thanks and regards,

    • Juju December 2, 2020 at 1:50 am Reply

      High Aga,

      I am stuck in a 3rd world country with no money under covid lockdown so I havent had any tests done but as im stabbing in the dark im taking no chances and assuming everything is wrong with me and being as clean as I can be.

      This is an excellent question because one might be eating spinach and raspberries thinking they are having superfoods (which they are) But what is super to normal people may be kryptonite to floxies. So the answer is YES all oxalates are OUT of my diet.

      88-90% of floxies have high ferritin levels (protein that stores iron in your mitochondria) Too much iron = ROS

      Should be between 40 – 80. So go test your blood if you want to know if its suitable for you.

      Floxies are high on oxalate crystals because after taking the antibiotics we lose the Oxalobacter formigenes bacteria, which is a Oxalate degrading bacteria. This bacteria is in charge of the enzymes that break up all the high oxalate foods.

      So seems fluoros mess up the cells into allowing iron to accumulate leading to mito dysfuncton, iron dependent oxidative stress and iron-induced senescene (Cell death)

      oxalates are razor sharp crystals and they like to infultrate everywhere so could well be the cause of inflammation and a whole manner of problems

      Iron is +2 charged oxalate is -2 so they attract eachother and form more crystals.

      So if both are high we have iron crystals developing in our mitochondria in our muscles and in our brain tissue. NO Thanks!

      • Aga December 2, 2020 at 2:23 am Reply

        Thanks Juju. That’s very helpful information.

        I will be doing blood and urine tests this week to check my levels of minerals and vitamins. I can see ferritin levels are on the check list as well. In addition I will do an organic acid test and the results will also show the oxalates metabolites, so let’s see.

        I’ve already switched to bio/eco food and do Pilates. Soft exercise definitely helps me, but I’m still with the tendinitis in my right arm and elbow.

        How are you doing after the fast you did last time? I’m thinking about doing intermittent fasting as part of detox process.

        Take care,

  15. Juju December 2, 2020 at 1:18 am Reply

    Hey A,

    I am also suffering the same fate in my ankles feet and achilles. I couldnt sleep on my back and eventually couldnt even walk down the stairs. I healed them to the extent that Yesterday I did 15 minutes of burpees HIIT! (1 min 30 secs rest repeat) So it can be restored to give you normality again.

    Not gonna lie im in a bad way today but i needed to do it to see my limitations. lesson learned is that they can be restored to let you walk and feel normal again.. but you cant train for the olympics on them.

    When I say bad way not excruciating just enough for my body to let me know that it was too much.

    I am addicted to training so Im having a baaad time as a floxie because im not the athlete I was before but im testing myself and looking for the right balance. With adequate rest though and continued nutrition I may feel fine tomorrow and then in a few days ill try something else like one legged squats.

    The answer is vitamins minerals and clean diet. Whenever you want a chocolate bar remember the pain in your ankles and ask yourself is it worth that?

    Feed the body with nutrients and it will help itself out.

    I took the borax also.. after johns recommendation I read the borax conspiracy and it made sense to me to try (nothing to lose when its less toxic than iodinized table salt)

    There are so many testimonies from many many different people on youtube and forums all saying it worked for them so why not?

    I mix a tablespoon (and a bit more to match my excessive personality) into a small glass of boiling water stir it and add all the mix inside an empty 1 litre bottle of water and fill it with RO water. Keep that in the fridge and every day spike my bottle of water with it (a tablespoonish amount is recommended) along with liquid magnesium and sea salt. So my first 1/1.5 litre bottle of water a day contains a trace of borax that gets sipped throughout the morning in a fasted state.

    Then by the afternoon when I break fast comes the supplements and oils. (there are ‘arthrtis all in one’ supplements if you dont wanna go as crazy as me)

    Fasting also helped as it removes all inflammation from the body.

    My mentality is do everything you can and you deserve to heal. Try to ignore the postulations that we have an auto immune like disease from the cipro because that makes you hopeless, even if the brain IS destroying healthy tissues and cells as it mistakes them for foreign bodies we can still fight/delay the process by working on what we have and encouraging autophagy.

    Cipro damages the cerebellum (little brain) which sends signals to the big brain, so signals are not being sent efficiently which is the reason for fatigue or fibromyalgia because our brain is working extra hard, but for me that just means its ALL in the mind. So work on your brain too. Meditation and stress release and positive thoughts towards healing. The borax worked for me because John said it would and lots of people said it worked for them so I was determined for it to work for me too!! Get it?

    • John Taylor December 2, 2020 at 3:56 am Reply


      Great informative post. Glad to see your turnaround. You sound so encouraging, especially compared your earlier posts. Plus you are adding new to me information. -I think this blog is doing wonders. Keep it up.

      John Taylor

  16. Blair Katz December 2, 2020 at 7:26 am Reply

    Hi John Taylor,

    I just took a epigenetic Regenr8 test. Test said I have a ton of oxidative stress. This causes tissue damage. Feeling it in tendons.
    So I need lot’s of antioxidants. The theory is that damaged mitochondria is causing the free radicals and oxidative stress. So if one can remove toxins with Borax and recover, does Borax indirectly help the mitochondria?

    • John Taylor December 3, 2020 at 1:14 am Reply

      Hi Blair,

      Antibiotic are strong oxidants and they stay on the surface of your cells until you do,something about removing them. There are antioxidants of many strengths. Antibiotics need a strong antioxidant to remove them. The best found to Borax. Previous posts describe how to do this. As Borax is also toxic, you need to control,the amount of this weaker toxin to remove the stronger toxin/antibiotic.

      The theory is upside down. free radicals and oxidants cause mitochondria damage. Mitochondria are sites that conduct natural,oxidantion in our cells that make use function. As oxidation sites they also damage themselves and need to spawn new sites. This is done by four things: remove the antibiotics that continue to damage them, repair the DNC damage so they can reproduce with L-Carnitine, and there are about. 8 supplements that help repairs, and exercise.

      Complex isn’t it.

      John Taylor

    • Juju December 3, 2020 at 1:26 am Reply

      Hi Blair,

      The only thing that can ‘help the mitochondria’ is the process of mitophagy, which is the selective degradation of mitochondria by autophagy. The mitochondria removed by mitophagy are then replaced by the replication of the other healthy mitochondria in the cell. So intermittent Fasting and good diet. Modern soil is deficient in boron so the theory is so are we.. Borax (boron) is not a miracle powder thats going to reverse the damage done by fluoros but it may well be a powerful aide.

      The tendons has been a large focus of mine because despite recovering from tendinitis I still have a weak rotator cuff. Here is the lowdown..

      A recent animal study in the American Journal of Sports Medicine looked at how fluoros disrupted tendon health. Each animal group treated with different amounts fluoroquinolone antibiotics showed measurable disrupted tendon health as opposed to those that were untreated. When the scientists looked at the tendons under a microscope, the tendons were friable and had atrophied. In essence they were ragged, shredded, and shrunken. The researchers measured inflammatory markers matrix metalloproteinase MMP-3 andMMP-13 and tissue inhibitor of metalloproteinase TIMP-1 before and after the antibiotic use. The MMP-3 increased 30 times, MMP-13 increased 7 times, and TIMP increased 4 times. The results showed that tendon tissue had less fibrous cartilage and lost its healthy structure.

      MMPs and TIMPs are types of enzymes that play essential roles in tendon development and normal remodeling after injury. The body needs some activity of these enzymes to keep up with normal wear and tear. Too much activity of these enzymes leads to weakening, damage, and degeneration of these tendons i.e. a disease state. This animal study with antibiotics showed dangerous increased activity levels of these enzymes leading to the disintegration of the tendons and development of rotator cuff disease. The antibiotic reactions caused the MMP enzymes to go from responsible clean-up to en masse destruction and tissue shredding.

      The tendons atrophy, develop fatty deposits and become more friable. These same enzymes are also involved with other joint and cartilage breakdown. The COX enzymes are common drug targets seen on many pain relief drug commercials.

      Whats the solution? Welcome to my battle!

      Follow healthy eating patterns to support the hormone leptin and keep the repair enzymes in a healthy balance rather than destruction. Find a combination of nutrients to help support healthy tissue and use that in conjunction with your physical therapy, chiropractic, and/or other conservative medical care.

      I havent yet given a long enough timescale to my new lifestyle to give advice and am very much living with the same condition as I type, this is my battle too like I said.

      The research suggests unlike muscles little to no cell swapping takes place in them; its hopeless and to try stem cell therapy.

      • John Taylor December 4, 2020 at 10:52 pm Reply

        Hi Juju,

        I had tendinitis in my left hand so,painful I had to support the hand as it’s weight could,not be carried.

        In about three weeks It was reversed by
        Vitamin D levels were above the point where all was going to improve bone flexibility/strength.
        Magnesium levels were adequate – no sore muscles.
        Collagen from chicken bone broth soup.
        MSM and glucosamine chondroitin

        John Taylor.

  17. Andrea December 2, 2020 at 5:18 pm Reply

    Hey guys, has anyone ever tried Silica?

    • Virginia December 6, 2020 at 7:57 pm Reply

      Hi Andrea, I have used BioSil, the orthosilicic form of silica for at least 3 years to strengthen my bones with my osteopenia. It’s supposed to be good for that and collagen and many other things.

      • Andrea December 7, 2020 at 1:56 pm Reply

        Thanks a lot Virginia. That was the reason why I wanted to try it, have you noticed any improvement from it, based on your experience?

        • Virginia December 9, 2020 at 8:09 pm

          Andrea, I can’t tell if it by itself has made a difference. But my bones are stronger overall since stopping the SSRIs and adding a number of bone-building supplements.

  18. Dee December 3, 2020 at 7:41 am Reply

    John Taylor. What are the 8 supplements in your opinion that help repair mitochondria??

  19. Don M December 3, 2020 at 10:04 am Reply

    Covid vaccines……… https://dnascience.plos.org/2020/09/10/how-the-various-covid-vaccines-work/
    This may be a little complicated for most of us but it tries to explain about the different vaccines in the pipe line. The fact that they all seem to center their attack around the DNA, RNA and discusses entering the cell and may be affecting the mitochondria it appears that one should be very concerned if they are already a floxie. What may be the long term adverse effects that vaccines might produce? It is already known that there are some long term adverse effects if one recovers from the Covid illness. What do you think about a floxie taking the vaccine?

    • Lukasz December 3, 2020 at 8:29 pm Reply

      Good luck to those that take it.

      • selcem December 3, 2020 at 11:04 pm Reply

        You know governments might force vaccination, at least by putting rules to be able to enter public places. Myself, I take the risk of continue living isolated for 2-3 years more rather than vaccinaton.

        • Lukasz December 4, 2020 at 5:55 pm

          There is no such thing as forced vaccinations nor will there ever be. Recommended vaccinations, yes, and the marketing/advertising aspect aka fear-mongering is in full swing. If governments go ahead and impose entry restrictions for those who choose not to be vaccinated, that’s how it’s going to have to be. At some point soon, human beings will have to choose their future. Comply and be prepared for a disturbing new reality or revolt to restore order. The future is entirely in our hands.

    • Andrea December 4, 2020 at 12:56 pm Reply

      I’m not against vaccines, but iI’ll pass on this one. Too many things I still can’t see clear on the whole covid 19 situation. And now this vaccine? No, not for me, plus keep in mind that who already has an autoimmune disorder or a compromised immune system (see floxie), should be very careful when dealing with vaccines…

      • Lukasz December 4, 2020 at 6:12 pm Reply

        Exactly. We’ve all been damaged by pharmaceuticals here. Some of us with vaccines as well. Many of the vaccines on the market contain antibiotics (Anti = Against / Bio = Life ) as an ingredient. Why put more antibiotics and other deadly ingredients into us? To finish ourselves off?

    • Aga December 5, 2020 at 4:40 am Reply

      In the world where the money comes first nobody worries about the percentage of people that will develop adverse side effects. There will be side effects, that’s for sure, we just don’t know what it will be yet.
      Here in Spain, some of the doctors declared openly that will not take that vaccine without knowing the full study results and potential adverse side effects and delayed adverse reaction.
      In UK the government will start with the vaccination next week, the time will show the results.

      • Andrea December 5, 2020 at 5:59 am Reply

        Aga, my mother is a pediatrician. I’m trying to explain to her this vaccine could be very dangerous. She said she would do exactly what the Spanish docotrs you’ve mentioned would do, but I’m still very worried. The first people they’ll use as guinea pigs would be elderly people and doctors. And for the latest it would be probably mandatory. Plus, do you think that the mass media and the health organization would tell us about all the nasty side effects and risks this vaccine would bring, after all the money the pharmaceutical companies invested in it ? I doubt it. Me personally, even if it would me mandatory to get vaccinated, I would never do it, not this time.

        Have you guys read about Pfizer and the legal actions against it? They’re a moltitude, just go to wikipedia and read about them, they even have to pay a huge fine for testing drugs on nigerian children.. I’ll post a link, it’s on wikipedia too!

        This was the title of an article from a national newspaper here in Italy :
        “Pfizer coronavirus vaccine, “legal shield”: in the event of complications, the giant cannot be sued”

        • Andrea December 5, 2020 at 6:03 am
        • Don M December 5, 2020 at 7:02 am

          Andrea…… Interesting article. It tends to indicate that were there is money the industry’s conclusions about vaccines can’t be trusted. As Aga says “where money is involved no one worries about adverse reactions”.
          One thing. It appears is that all the vaccines are trying to center around the RNA and disruption of it. Isn’t DNA, RNA and mitochondria disruption the underlying problem that floxies must deal with?
          It is already proven that there can and in most cases will be adverse after effects from contracting the virus.
          Only time and many people’s issues with vaccines will give us answers. With so many different ones trying to come to market how does one know which one they would be given?
          As selcem says “Myself, I’ll take the risk of continue living isolated for 2-3 years more rather than vaccination”.

    • John Taylor January 9, 2021 at 9:46 pm Reply

      Don M,

      I have come to the conclusion I will have to take the vaccine for business travel. The DNA damage is concerning as well as Aluminum and MethylMerciry Toxicity. Google has protocols for removing Aluminum and mercury. L-Carnitine repairs the DNA in mitochondria. I will wait until April to be a recovered for being a Floxie as I can and Say a “Hail Mary” and take the shot.

      How are you doing? Any help from the Borax?

      John Taylor

  20. Aga December 4, 2020 at 10:52 am Reply

    Hi guys,

    I’ve been recently reading about melatonin, According to the studies melatonin exhibits many bioactivities, such as antioxidant activity (higher than CoQ10 and vit. E). It “protects mitochondria by scavenging reactive oxygen species (ROS), inhibiting the mitochondrial permeability transition pore (MPTP), and activating uncoupling proteins (UCPs).”

    As per the studies the bioavailability of oral melatonin tablets is very poor, that’s why it’s better to focus on melatonin containing foods.

    Articles below:

    Melatonin can attenuate ciprofloxacin induced nephrotoxicity: Involvement of nitric oxide and TNF-α

    Melatonin: A Mitochondrial Targeting Molecule Involving Mitochondrial Protection and Dynamics

    Dietary Sources and Bioactivities of Melatonin

    Have a good weekend everyone!

  21. Dee December 4, 2020 at 10:52 am Reply

    John Taylor, thank you John for the article on mitochondria support!!! D

  22. Andrea December 5, 2020 at 3:47 pm Reply

    Hey guys, I wanted to have your opinion about vitamin D.
    Since I’ve been floxed, 4 years ago, I’ve noticed how important vitamin d is for me. I belive it’s the only supplement I can certainty say made a real difference as far as pain, expecially in my lower legs. I’ve read a lot about it, and since 2017, in the wintertime, so maybe 4 months per year, I take 5000iu a day with 200 mcg of k2 everyday, plus some minerals (right now I’m also taking boron in my mineral stack. wich is also very important for Vit D assimilation). In the summertime I don’t take any vit d supplement, and just try to expose myself to the sun at least 30 minutes a day.
    Anyway, I also know that vit. D can accumulate in your fat and liver, causing, besides other things, hypercalcemia. What do you guys think? I’m overdoing with it? Do you think if I get checked and my levels of vitamin d and serum calcium are in the normal range, I can keep taking it?
    Thank you.

    • Madge Hirsch December 6, 2020 at 11:44 am Reply

      Hi Andrea- I do not think you need to worry. 5000iu a day in winter is not an excessive dose. If you are worried get your vit D and calcium levels tested. At the moment having a high blood level of vit D is the best thing you can do to protect yourself from Covid. Though there is little noise about it in the mainstream media there have been studies done all over the world which show that those who become very ill and die from covid nearly always have vit D deficiency. The lower the level the greater the risk of a bad outcome. The level needs to be above 30ng/mL. There has also been a trial at Reina Sofia hospital in Cordoba ,Spain of Calcifediol a metabolite of vit D ( what is produced by the liver after hydroxylation of cholecalciferol ) in patients who were admitted with covid. The results were amazing though again no noise about it. Why is this? Because vitD is cheap – no money for Pharma – and if this were shown to be both an effective preventative ( there are one or two studies showing that those with high vit d levels are less likely to even catch the virus) and an effective treatment then the vaccines would be less attractive and who on earth would prescribe expensive rubbish like Remdesivir? I am prescribed Calcifediol drops by my doctor. I have not had a cold since March 2016. I sent a spare bottle to my daughter in London . She caught covid back in March and said after taking a loading dose soon started to feel better. Same for her housemate who was quite poorly.

      • Andrea December 6, 2020 at 1:14 pm Reply

        Thanks a lot Madge,
        I’ glad your daughter was able to recover form covid, expecially with your help.
        To me it always made sense to supplement vitamin D, since it’s one of those nutrients you can’t just get from diet and it’s important for your health, but I was a little worried about the accumulation. Anyway next week I’m going to check my Vit D and calciium levels.

    • John Taylor December 6, 2020 at 11:35 pm Reply


      30 ngm/dcL is a good indicator. Below is low. You can tell if you are too high. When overdosing you can only sleep 2.5 hours per night. You can’t overdose from the sun as your skin stops making it. If you can tolerate 5000 IU a day for a long time (3-4 months) some cofactor for making bones flexible is missing. K2 is classic but you are taking it – at a good dosage. Mg is another cofactor. I think you are savy about your Mg levels are OK.

      SO/BUT/HOWEVER, Vit D is metabolized in the liver and kidneys before it can be used. Antibiotics damage all our organs also. Use Dr. Rind temperature chart to so if your metabolic temperature is high enough. http://Www.drrind.com This specifically looks at thyroid and adrenals. If you have a fatty liver that has to go. Too complicated to write here. Liver function is improved by eating Braunschweiger or Liverwurst. I think when your temperature is normal, all organs are working well.

      And now we come back to removing antibiotics first. I could not raise my temperature for a year no matter what I did. Then I changed the removal process by increasing Borax and switching between Borax without any oil or supplementation and no Borax with supplementation. In two weeks my temperature rose to 1 degree cold. Details of this protocol have been previously posted.

      Selfishly because I want the knowledge, I hope you continue with the Boron Supplement strategy for antibiotic removal. You know as a chemist I can’t see how boron is going to do that BUT managers don’t trust chemists and engineers because they are are too confident in their own thinking and make mistakes all the time. They often don’t know all the factors and spend money on fixes that don’t actually work. So data is much better than professional opinions. It would be nice to have a non-Borax removal treatment. Borax is mildly toxic and not having to manage that would be a step forward.

      Hope this helps.

      John Taylor

      My experimental status is I am waiting for my blood glucose to reach 160 before taking another Borax treatment. I happens my temperature may be slowly drifting upwards anyway.

      • Andrea December 7, 2020 at 10:26 am Reply

        Thanks for the replay John Taylor, but I don’t really understand why there must be something wrong in taking 5000iu of vit D without any problem. There’re healthy people that take way more than that and they’re fine. Keep in mind that the reccomended dosage is 4000iu, if you’re not exposing yourself to the sun, so just a bit less, and it doesn’t seem to be toxic even at 10.000 iu a day.
        For the Boron protocol, I’ll keep taking 3 mg everyday.

        • Andrea December 7, 2020 at 1:28 pm

          Plus : “You can tell if you are too high. When overdosing you can only sleep 2.5 hours per night.”
          Is this the indicator to you? Don’t you think this is a very simplified and inaccurate sentence. Only sleeping 2.5 hrs per night could be anything. Then why 2.5 hrs, why not 3.5? What’s this magical number of 2.5 hrs per night = too high vitamin d levels?
          See John, I understand you’re trying to share useful infos, but I don’t think you should giving out protocols on how to detoxify, even using toxic substances, like borax, based solely on your personal experience and your chemistry background.
          One thing is sharing your personal experience, like many of us do, like : I used XX supplement and I felt better or I used YY supplement and I went into a relapse, another thing is giving out straight suggestions, without any doubt…many people here could follow your suggestions and feeling worse then they already do.
          Be creful.

        • John Taylor December 9, 2020 at 2:45 am


          I appreciate your posts as it refines my thinking and I think recovering from becoming a Floxie is very complex and really requires group thinking. This blog helps that.

          If you are taking 5000 per day and your Vitamin D level is below 30, something is missing. 5000/day should be raising your Vitamin D level. The toxic levels for Vitamin D discussed on the web vary from 75 to 125. D Toxicity has severe symptoms like Nausea. The web recommends daily doses from 1000 to 4000.

          The key question is what is your Vitamin D level. A second question is what does Dr. Rind’s metabolic temperature graph say about your organ health.

          I make all my Vitamin D with a UVB lamp so I don’t know my daily dosage. I do know if I am making too much as my left hand will feel arthritic as Magensium is being stolen from the cartilage to be used in conjunction with D elsewhere. So I have to hold back on D while accumulating Magnesium. I can get instant relief by rubbing MgCl oil on my hand. I generally don’t because I want the Mg level to increase throughout my body with supplements and foot soaks using my hand to indicated the level. Since August when I lost the Floxie feeling, my lamp time has increased. Now I am close the maximum time I can be exposed limited by daily activity.

          As a Floxie with damage to everything including our organs we may not metabolize vitamin D into it’s useful form. So you can take supplements at any dosage level and not raise it. Having fully metabolized D is required for many if not all repairs. It is metabolized in two steps first in the liver and second in the kidneys. Fat in the liver blinds it’s active sites and reduces its capacity. If your stomach bulges out below your rib cage, fat in the liver is likely an issue. Once I learned how to reduce this fat, I could feel my liver function improve as things got better.

          My temperature graph was running 2.7 degrees cold even after I lost the Floxie feeling. I was wondering how much colder it could be before I stopped functioning as I had a difficult time without enough energy to get through the day without 2 naps. Now I am only 1 degree cold and slowly rising. I function well without a nap for at least 13 hours now.

          Sleep is a vary complex subject as you point out. Fluroquinolones like to attach to the circadian rhythm sites on our brains. If one still feels like a Floxie, there is some still there. The supplement discussion totally changes when they are removed. Glyphosate also needs to be removed. When I got past the Floxie feeling my need for supplements dropped dramatically. I had to cut back as I was constantly short on Magnesium. I had to even hold back on Vitamin D. 4 months later I can make a lot of Vitamin D without Magnesium deficiency. My body is repairing what it’s wants to supported by food.

          I was working up to the question D and 2.5 hours of sleep but have run out of time for,today.

          Thanks again,

          John Taylor

        • Andrea December 9, 2020 at 7:16 am

          Thanks John. One thing I’ve noticed it’s that I defenetly absorb less nutrients since I created a mess in my digestive system 2 years ago.
          A little summary of my journey : I was floxed in Dec. 2016, so 4 years ago. Never ever had any digestive issue until Dec. 2018, when I took a probiotic blend containing S. Boulardii and Enterococcus Faecium. This stuff completely shut down my digestive sytem. I’m always very constipated and bloated and I can’t completely empty my bowels since then. Anyway, back to the vitamin D absorbtion, before dec. 2018 I was already taking vitamin D in winter (same dosage,same brand), and my levels where at 48 ng/dcl, so perfect. After mesing up my guts, I kept using the vitamin D, and even after months of supplementing, my levels dropped to 33ng/dcl, so a clear sign of malabsorption to me.
          another thing, can you please suggest a good UVB lamp, I’d much prefer taking vitamin D “the natural way” than with pills, thank you.

        • John Taylor December 9, 2020 at 11:37 pm


          I googled screw based UVB bulb and found a Terra or desert UVB bulb for $11. I made a wooden box and lined it with aluminum foil that holds three bulbs. The foil reflects the light out one side facing me. Well maybe everyone doesn’t have a wood shop to make such a thing. So if you buy a gooseneck lamp. There are other bulbs that reflect the light directly out from the base, but wattage is more important. Basically you want to buy a hobby lamp for keeping a lizard healthy. You can spend $3-400 on a UVB panel, but I always go more affordable.

          One lamp verses three. I think 3 or 75 watts is a bit of overkill and it is a question of how long you sit in front of it. I have a heated foot soak I am using at least 15 minutes every day as I need that much magnesium so both are setup so,I can use them while using the computer. So a goose neck lamp lined with aluminum foil and a 25 watt bulb without an internal,reflector should make enough Vitamin D in about 1/2 an hour. You could also expose more skin than I do. I just direct it at my legs.

          I am puzzled why your digestive absorption is reduced. Have you tried an herbal Colon cleanse to remove fecal matter from the walls. Do you have food intolerance?

          I have had constipation problems for many years before becoming a Floxie. I take flaxseed husks to help things move. All colon cleanses start with seed husk laxative. A good part of this is I was gluten intolerant going back 40 years at least.Simce getting the toxins out of my body, I am not gluten intolerant today.

          HOWEVER, this past summer my intestines stopped moving altogether. I got infected and had a blockage from compacted food. This had to be surgically removed. When I got out of the hospital I could not get things moving again. My back muscles were extremely sore and I soaked a towel in MgChloride solution and put it on my back 3 times a day to get relief from the back pain. Finally I smartened up and put MgCl in my foot soak with the Epsom salts. About three months later I was satisfying my body’s demand for magnesium and I could also increase my Vitamin D time. A month after that my bowels started to move smoothly. So now I have to cut back on the flaxseeds to not be too loose. This is an improvement needed for at least 10 years.

          Articles say we need MgCl, Epsom salts, magnesium maleate, and Mg glycinate for good muscle function. Well I was so deficient in MgCl my digestive muscles were sore and wouldn’t relax enough, so I wasn’t pushing enough into the large intestine to keep clearing it.

          Constipation has many root causes, if yours is not among the above, I suggest you keep reading about it until,you find your cause. You must have done a lot of that already. What is the root cause you think are making low absorption and constipation?

          John Taylor

        • Andrea December 10, 2020 at 12:37 am

          I believe finding the root of my digestive problem now, is as complex as finding the root of every floxie symptom. One thing is for sure though, everything (as far as digestion goes) started when I took that probiotic blend. Like I wrote, it was a combination of S. Boulardii and Enterococcus Faecium, and, as I found out later, it did what it was supposed to do : shutting down your digestive system. S. Boulardii has powerful antidiarrheal properties and it’s used to treat as a matter of fact, diarrhea. Now, I don’t know what went wrong in my case to not let get back to my previous normal situation: a nervous alteration? a yeast infection/alteration inside my bowels, I don’t know. What I do know is that I have all the symptoms of an inflamed bowel disease, but from the colonoscopy I’ve done a few months ago, everything seems fine. I’ve tried many laxitives, but none of them really worked. Even the ones that pulls water into your intestines really “cleaned” the last tract. Sorry to be so vivid. I’ve tried so many probiotics and digestive enzymes, but none of them really worked. Fibers seem to be the thing that gives me the most problem,as a matter of fact whenever I eat very healthy (fruits, vegetables, legumes etc) I’m bloated as a balloon and very constipated. If I eat unhealthy and not too many fibers, my bowel movements are a little less fastidious.

        • Andrea December 10, 2020 at 3:30 am

          “Even the ones that pulls water into your intestines really “cleaned” the last tract”
          Sorry I meant “really didn’t clean the last tract”

        • John Taylor January 9, 2021 at 9:59 pm


          I don’t think 5000 IU of Vitamin D it harmful. It,just says to me it is not being used. As Vitamin D has a priority for repairs, let’s check the repair symptoms.
          1 first if bone flexibility. This will consume a D until,it is satisfied. SO…
          2nd is tendons and carilege. Any tendon pain or arthritis? If not go to
          3 – Is deep sleep. That is hard to judge. The transition for light sleep to deep sleep is easy to spot. You will sleep 12 hours a day and have difficultly waking up.
          When past the first month, it is normal for your legs to not work well first thing on waking. A little stumbly. If you are sleeping deeply keep taking the Vitamkn D.

          Do I remember corrstly you have some arthritis and magnesium makes your leg s hurt?

          Hope this helps,

          John Taylor

    • John Taylor January 8, 2021 at 1:52 am Reply

      My experience with Vitamin D is the ongoing repairs consume a lot of it. If I take too much two things happen. 1 I get low on magnesium and me muscles get sore or stiff. 2. I can’t sleep more than 2.5 hours at night. So if you have neither of these keep taking it.

      John Taylor

  23. Blair December 6, 2020 at 9:07 am Reply

    Thanks John, good info.

  24. Blair December 6, 2020 at 9:13 am Reply

    Hi Juju,
    I read that NAD or precursors, induce mitophagy, have you tried this?
    I also read that resveratrol inhibits MMP3.

  25. David December 6, 2020 at 4:57 pm Reply

    I’d really like some expert advice on which vaccine is least likely to disrupt mitochondria. Some vaccines do not act on RNA. I believe one is AstroZeneca.

  26. Dee December 9, 2020 at 4:30 pm Reply

    John Taylor, so if one wants to detox with low dose borax should one stop taking their supplements?? I wouldn’t mind trying the borax but I would like to continue my supplements especially taking some supplements for stronger immunity during Covid. What are your thoughts on taking borax and supplements at the same time?

    • John Taylor December 10, 2020 at 12:11 am Reply


      You have lots of choices. I used 1/16 of a teaspoon taken first thing in the morning followed by supplements 8 hours later. This worked taking 9 months to,make me feel Floxie free. That was big and my body started repairing all,kinds of things so I had to cut back on supplementation or I would run out of available,magnesium. Then I switched to 1/4 teaspoon taken throughout the day for as many days as I felt I could stand without supplements and then no borax but taking supplements. Two of these treatments started raising my metabolic temperature which I haven’t been able to,do,for 3.5 years. I feel much more alive being warmer.

      You can use any time interval you want being on borax at 1/4 teaspoon in 12 ounces sipped throughout the day. Then drink 2 ounces of olive oil,so,the borax is out of your blood stream..wait two,hours and then supplement. As the toxins are removed, the need for supplements goes down, so,you can increase the borax time. Three or four days is a max before going back to supplements.

      You have to feel your way along. Borax does remove the oils on your brain cell surface that help,glucose get into your brain. The Fluroquinolones do the same thing. So Borax helps on one hand and hurts on the other. You need to strike a balance.

      To put this in perspective, I recently took 10 days of Clindamycin to.prevent skin infection. That had a toxic effect disrupting my sleep routine and raising my blood glucose. This was 3 or 4 times worse than Borax for 4 days. Recovery from either was about 2 days. The Clindamycin did more damage.

      Hope this helps, we are all different.
      John Taylor

      • Jason Sousa December 10, 2020 at 10:35 am Reply

        Great suggestions John

      • Madge Hirsch December 13, 2020 at 6:24 am Reply

        I don’t know where you get your info from about vit D toxicity but it is inaccurate. There is no toxicity at 75ng/mL. Vitamin D researchers have experimented with very high doses over months ( much higher than 5000iu a day) and have found very little toxicity including hypercalcemia below 150ng/mL. Here in France the toxicity level is above 100ng/mL and that is cautious. There are very wide individual differences in vit D absorption. On 3000iu a day I could not make it into the normal range of 30ng/mL wheras my husband could attain 48 ng/mL on the same dose. I have to say I am suspicious of many of the statements in your posts and would counsel others here to be sceptical of your advice which seems to me to be very dogmatic.

        • Andrea December 13, 2020 at 3:57 pm

          Madge, did you take a look at the latest link I’ve posted about boron and vitamin d, you should check them out, it appears that boron can, among other things, raise vitamin d levels in the blood, even among vitamin d deficient people

      • John Taylor January 8, 2021 at 2:39 am Reply

        Well I learned a lot more about Clindamycin and Borax and Boron and my digestive tract. Clindamycin was the last toxin load that set me back on Floxie recovery and I basically lost December to this struggle. That is why I haven’t been able to blog – too busy trying to stay alive. Actually it wasn’t just Clindamycin but also the massive amount of antibiotics to recover from surgery to remove a blockage in my small intestine. I spent 11 days in the hospital when my digestive system stopped flowing. Days after I got out of the hospital I realized I was low on Magnesium Chloride. MGCl is very important for muscle function. I have been accumulating MgCl for the past 6 months with daily foot soaks twice a day and finally have overcome the sore muscles.

        My digestive tract is working well.whenever I feel pain there (Inflamation? But quercintin doesn’t help) I drink 3-4 swallows of Mango pulp. That soothes my whole stomach and small intestines. It is amazing how quickly it gets through the whole system. Pepto Bismarck does the same thing but Mayo heals damaged areas – like my stomach ulcer and this spot where my small intestines were opened.

        My back and stomach muscles were not relaxing so the normal wave action contractions that push things through stopped doing their job. I now have MgCl. Did Epsom salts in a heated foot bath.

        Bloating is obviously a sign of problems. Have you tried one of these colon cleaning kits. They use flower oils to dissolve fecal matter stuck to the Intestinal lining. It is quite a procedure and takes several weeks as one needs to slowly dissolve fecal materials that has been stuck for years – quite rotten stuff. Slowly is needed to prevent being blocked by a large amount at once. I think bloating is something is holding up normal flow. I put forward MgCl and a colon cleanses. One would think a Gastro should be able to solve bloating. However I had this stuck fecal matter for years and no Gastro ever mentioned cleaning out stuck fecal matter. I had a lot.

        I am going to leave a general comment on CV19.

        John Taylor

        • Tuula January 8, 2021 at 11:02 am

          Hi John,

          Did you develop abnormal peristalsis before or after being floxed, or before or after Borax? If before, did you find Borax made it worse? Did you ever develop dry, cracking knee joints after taking Borax?

    • John Taylor December 10, 2020 at 12:26 am Reply


      You can take zinc an’d L-Lysine for virus immunity and Borax at the same time. Borax does not remove minerals just organic compounds with double bonds. L-Lysine does not have double bonds so Borax will not interact with it.

      Complex this chemistry stuff.

      John Taylor

  27. Juju December 10, 2020 at 4:35 am Reply

    Hi Blair, Great topic!

    Apparantly without NAD there is no DNA repair process and we lose it as we age.

    NAD+ fuels PARPS which repair damaged DNA

    Its used in hundreds of enzymatic reactions and plays an important role in metabolism, ageing cell death, dna repair and gene expression

    They aide your Surtuin genes which influence the ageing process regulation mitochondrial biogenesis stimulate apoptosis and inhibit inflammation, reduce oxidation reactions

    NAD + molecule is bulky and doesnt pass accross the cellular membrane so you need to get NAD precursors that can and once they do convert into NAD+

    There are many different pathways for boosting NAD +: Nicotinamide is the way we can get it through diet with is a water soluble version of vitamin b3 which gets converted to NMN or you can recycle from NADH

    CD-38 (enzyme) apparently leaches our NAD+ and this enzyme increases with age and is responsible for mitochondrial decline. To reduce CD-38 you can use a flavanoid called Apigenin – Which I have been getting from parsley, celery and Chamomile tea

    Apigenin has shown to have all round approach, when it comes to cancer. It may reduce the risk of prostate, breast, stomach and bladder cancer as well as leukemia. Scientists assume that flavonoid works in several ways from which only a few of them have been identified.

    However, strong antioxidant and anti-inflammatory characteristics are for sure, one of the main reasons behind its anti-cancer properties. By preventing free radical damage and blocking COX-2, the risk of cancer can be reduced, a lot.

    Its the same old story for increasing NAD: Aerobic Exercise, Resitance training the latter being the most effective. Calorie restriction / CR Memetics

    I am taking Reveratrol too with grape seed.it may increase NAD

    Natural sources in food are: Dairy milk (not cadbury’s! DOH!) Fish, Mushrooms, Yeast, Green Veggies, whole grains, OR FAST; Fasting has been shown to increase the levels of NAD+ and surtuins; the proteins which have been found to slow the aging process. While fasting is effective in increasing NAD+ levels, drastic reduction in calorie intake or fasting can have a counterproductive effect. There is also some speculation that intermittent fasting or adopting a low carb-ketogenic diet may also provide similar positive results.

    Too many draw backs to the NAD+ supplements for my liking so Im not taking it. The transport data does not support the transport of NMN by Slc12a8.

    Like everything else on this journey the studies are contradictory.

    Take NR or NMN if your gonna try it but be careful as there is no research and take TMG alongside as its a methyl group donor and should cancel out methylation interference.

    One final pont – NAD+ can supposedly prevent cancer but If you have cancer boosting NAD levels may contribute to your cancer

    • Barbara Arnold December 10, 2020 at 11:17 pm Reply


      Great article by Dr. Mercola on NAD to follow on with what you were saying about it Juju.
      He is selling a suppliment but the article makes sense,

      • Juju December 11, 2020 at 8:17 am Reply

        Thanks Barbara, that certainly tantalized some more!

        Well Im not gonna argue against the fact that a chemical has accelerated the ageing process as I now have arthritis all over my body developing in more and more joints at 30 years of age so… Reversing? Hopefully!

        But its the guinea pig game again for now.

        • Barbara Arnold December 12, 2020 at 4:06 am

          Really sorry to hear that Juju. Have you been diagnosed with arthritis ? Your right we are all our own guinea pigs.

        • John Taylor December 31, 2020 at 8:42 am


          I eliminated my arthritis aggravated by antibiotics, it was a long time mild issue, but now is gone unless It let myself get low on magnesium chloride.

          What I do when I realize I need to grow more cartiledge is eat three bowls of chicken bone broth. This contains collegen that sticks out of the existing cartilage. It think of it as rebar in concrete. The “concrete” portion then grows around this composed of calcium phosphate impregnated with oil. I have plenty of oil as it 1/3 of my caloric intake. The structure also needs Vitamin D, magnesium, and glucosamine.

          When my left hand feels arthritic I move it, squeeze things and rub Mg CL lotion or. Oil on it. Instant relief. I also take a glucosamine pill.

          The hand is a signal,I am low in magnesium so I increase my foot soaks. In July of this year I realized I was low in MgCl so it have added major amounts to my foot soak and bought a heated foot bath. I have done this a lot since July and now feel my magnesium needs are becoming satisfied.

          Well, in August I lost the Floxie feeling and my body has been on a wild ride rebuilding everything and constantly shorting me on Vitamin D and magnesium.

          The change in Borax protocol to 4X or 1/4 treason daily for short periods of time also accelerate this uncontrolled repair activity. In December I reached another level.of repairs but the process to get there was rough. I slept 12 hours a day fo very deep sleep for about 2 weeks. I was ridding stored food intolerance junk from wherever by expelling large quantities of mucus – like 3 ounces a crack all day long. However yesterday I felt the benefit. I felt lighter and more alive. My temperature has been running cold 2.3 degrees below normal. Now I am only 1.2 degrees below and have much more daily energy and productive time.

          This trip back from the brink is just a rough as the decent into the valley of death.

          I have started taking Boron thanks to Andrea’s prodigy. Maybe that is causing this massive clean out. There is so,e basis for that based on first principle chemistry. I have felt for a long time The Mg++ ion helps dissolve the food intolerance stored in lumps I could feel under my skin. These are gone now in the last six months. The borax was a big help but Boron salts can express as +1, +2, and +3 ions so they could help dissolve this stuff. I think,getting this junk,out of my organs is the reason for better metabolism. Who knows there are so many possible reasons. so,I stopped the Boron today and when the clean out passes.\, I go back to it’s to see if I get another clean out.

          Glad to see your contributions. Together we will all figure this out and become healthy again.

          John Taylor

      • A December 11, 2020 at 5:58 pm Reply

        Hi Juju,

        Did the arthritis develop after taking the antibiotic?

        • lisalisa12years December 12, 2020 at 7:34 pm

          I was " Floxed "

        • Juju December 13, 2020 at 2:49 am

          Yes! but I think it all comes from a gut problem and nutrients not being absorbed correctly as I developed dysphagia and now believe its reflux related. So Im battling acid reflux and treating it as GERD and also feeding my gut microbes with kefir , cocnut yoghurt, kambucha, saukraut, pickled veg, chamomile tea etc and also trying apple cider vinegar in case its a lack of acidity.

          I’m new to the reality im floxed so its had years without me fighting back with adequate minerals and nutrition to manifest the delightful problems im experiencing now. My arthritis pains have largely gone now as a result of doing everything I can for a month, Aiming for minimum 700mg magnesium p/day, I tried the borax (which i think has helped) curcumin, msm, choindritin, glucosamine, omegas and oils, now im really concentrating on DHA and EPA getting those levels up, (tinned wild salmon or sardines are amazing) just bought Noni juice so thats a new one on the list and im waiting for other supplements like hmb and creatine.

          Its a working progress and im improving my knowledge daily and now ive not exercised for a week too I can say that today im feeling no effect of arthritis whatsoever, but i want to be normal again and be able to train, I achieved this a couple of weeks ago too but then did intense HIIT burpees 10 sets and relapsed into pain again for a week. Thats not normal!

          But i have more knowledge now and believe that my problem was/is gut related. Indeed I think it is the same for all floxies.

          Im not shying away from the science that its mitochondria damage too, so it could be the hopeless scenario that my cells arent absorbing minerals efficiently but im working on that too, intermittent fasting, strict sleep pattern, 3 day fasts (probably will make that a monthly regimen) supps: Coq10, Gingko Biloba, Glutathine, Alpha lipoic, milk thistle, resveratrol. melatonin, selenium and dark chocolate (yay) Growing more tempted by the NAC+ precursors too I must admit.

          Even my diet is evolving, now Ive gone full Keto. Ive been having berries and pineapple over the last month but have now eradicated fruit almost entirely besides coconut water and of course the noni juice i bought today. I live in Asia though so these things grow here. Im even getting more and more panicky about nuts and seeds for their mineral leaching properties and carbs.

          ITs tough though when so many different symptoms require different diets.

          With this diet and the fact I now cover all the vitamins and minerals I foresee myself not only recovering but being better than ever.

        • Juju December 13, 2020 at 3:11 am

          Oh and eating and gargling fresh aloe vera flesh (and rubbing it all over my skin) Another perk of living in Asia!! I cant think of a better way to counter a burning esophagus! Plus theyre full of nutrients.

      • Madge Hirsch December 14, 2020 at 2:34 pm Reply

        Hi Barbara – have you heard anything about your kidney tests yet?

        • Barbara Arnold December 14, 2020 at 11:13 pm

          Hi Madge,
          Thanks for asking. I get the results of another blood test this Thursday, fingers crossed. I also have an appointment with a kidney specialist mid Jan. Hopefully I can get things sorted from there. I still have no symptoms whatsoever from my kidney’s, so I haven’t a clue why my levels came up high.
          Hope your okay and hanging in there with all this crap happening in the world. I’m hoping next year will be better for us all.

    • Andrea December 12, 2020 at 1:28 pm Reply

      Hi Juju, I’ve had some unpleasent headache and a weird feeling overall while taking NAD+ some time ago, so me neither I’m a fan of it

      • Juju December 13, 2020 at 2:53 am Reply

        Thanks for the feedback, because they are tempting.. But i am a believer of; things that sound too good to be true, usually are unfortunately.

        • Andrea December 13, 2020 at 10:43 am

          I tend to feel the same way Juju, but other people here on Floxie Hope have had some good experience with it…so, as always, what’s good for someone, can be dangerous for another. And this is so true for us floxies.

      • Madge Hirsch December 14, 2020 at 2:30 pm Reply

        Hi Andrea- thanks for the info on boron. I no longer take cholecalciferol. My GP prescribed calcifediol drops. This is what is produced by our livers and is what the blood tests actually measure. It is much more effective and on 3 drops a day I am able to maintain a level of around 60ng/mL. I think my liver was probably not doing the transformation. Calcifediol is also what was used in an amazimg trial at Reina Sofia University Hospital in Cordoba where they used high doses in Covid patients with spectacular results.

        • Andrea December 16, 2020 at 9:39 am

          Madge, what brand of calcifediol are you taking?

  28. Andrea December 11, 2020 at 8:25 am Reply

    Hi guys, the last comments where mostly about borax and boron, as a form of detox. As I mentioned in a previous post, some days ago I added to my Vit. D and K2 stack some boron, 3 mg a day and a multimineral, both from Solgar.
    Anyway, I was very interested in trying boron because it seems to be very important in mineral, so also calcium, absorbtion in the bones, with a regulating effect, and, according to some studies even raising Vit D levels in the blood.
    During these 4 years of being floxed, I’ve checked my blood levels quite often, minerals and vitamins expecially. During winter of 2017, so I was already supplementing with D3, my levels were at 48 ng/dcl, but the highest vitamin D level ever recorder was during the summer of 2018, if I remember correclty, where I didn’t take any supplement for months, but I was exposing myslef to the midday sun, at least 4-5 days a week, for half an hour. The levels at that time where at 78 ng/dcl. After destroyng my digestive system with a probiotic blend in Dec. 2018, after a few months of supplementing again, my levels where at 33 ng/dcl, so quite less compared to the previous winter, when I didn’t have any digestive problem yet. Anyway, yesterday, I’ve cheked my Vit.D, calcium and creatinine levels : the last 2 are at a regular level, so no hypercalcemia or any problem for the kidneys, but surprisingley the Vit D levels are at 53 ng/dcl, so very good! Apparently the boron is doing its job. I’m going to continue to take the boron and the multimineral, but probably I’m going to take less of the Multimineral, because the calcium levels where in the norm, but in the high range, so maybe I’m goin to take it every other day, instead of everyday.
    I just wanted to share with you my expereince, apparently this boron/borax thing is a true key element for human health, expecially for floxies. So, thank you John Taylor to let me/us know the importance of this quite forgotten mineral.
    Here’s a couple of links about boron supplementation :




    • Madge Hirsch December 20, 2020 at 3:59 pm Reply

      It is called Dédrogyl. It is a French brand I think.

  29. Andrea December 12, 2020 at 10:48 am Reply

    Hi guys, yesterday I’ve posted a comment about Boron, it conteined 3 links about the topic.
    It was awaiting moderation, but it hasn’t showed up yet, why’s that?

  30. Don M December 13, 2020 at 3:32 pm Reply

    John Taylor…………… I read about the different ways to take the Borax. I need your comment on taking the Borax about 4 days a week and using the one ounce daily at mixing 2 teaspoons in a quart of water. But take the Borax at bed time. At bed time the one ounce of Borax would have 8 hours or more to work over night and then during the day one could take the supplements. Your opinion?

    • John Taylor January 9, 2021 at 10:47 pm Reply

      Don M,

      I really apologize for not keeping up with the blog in December. I think there are two preferred ways to take borax. The low intensity one you go 8 hours of Borax and 16 hours of supplements. I did that for 9 months and crushed the felling of being floxed. It also accelerated natural repairs remarkably. The high intensity one you ingest as much as you can tolerate for a 1 to 4 days without supplements. Then drink 2-3 ounces of oil to neutralize the Borax, wait two hours and go on the supplements. this works much faster, but it is a harsher treatment. Lower is 1/16 teason a days and high is 1/4th.

      It takes me about 5 hours to drink 10 ounces containing 1/4th a teaspoon, as It upsets my stomach if I go faster.

      I have not being taking Borax for 6 weeks while I am taking a Boron chelate as a test. My blood glucose says I need to remove more toxins. The Boron chelate has been removing food intolerance mucus – a very good thing by itself. I think it has not done much for the toxins as the blood glucose has leveled out at a higher level.

      It is foolish to think one can understand the fine points of chemistry just by first principles, data is much better. So now that I have a little data, I immediately can understand what I could not before. One can think of the Boron supplement as a marble with two strings attached to it with a third location with a positive charge. That positive charge can attack a double bond on a toxin resting on the surface of a cell. The two strings are going to stick out from the surface but there is no charge there. That is the supplement.

      The borax can be visualized as a 6 times larger diameter elongated marble with no strings attached but it has a positive change at opposite sides. One attaches at a double bond site and the other is pointing out to the solution. That is make that collection of atoms try to dissolve and enter the water phase. That is why Borax removes toxins while the supplement has less effect. The supplement should weaken the toxic effect of the toxin but not remove it from your body. That is one interpretation of the observations.

      Hope you are feeling better,

      John Taylor

    • John Taylor January 14, 2021 at 7:06 am Reply

      Don M,
      I have been thinking further about your question and have concluded the 8 hours of Borax followed by 16 hours of supplements.
      1- I removed enough of the toxins that way to stop the Floxie feeling and my body experienced a rapid increase in repairs. That took 10 months with the 1/16 teaspoon daily. ¼ teaspoon daily should be faster or perhaps 2 ½ months. That should be fast enough. What would be the point of spending time on finding a faster rate?
      2- The drinking of 3 ounces of Olive oil to clear out the Borax before taking the supplements should make then more effective than what I was doing.
      3- Now you can watch how effective the supplements are and adjust the amount of Borax so things are improving. In my case I monitor blood glucose, temperature, and how many hours I get per day once I get up in the morning. The Borax drives these in the wrong direction in the short term but it does remove the toxins which drives them in the right direction in the long term. So it is a question of balance. This would be easy to adjust the daily dose of Borax to keep improving everything. It is probably better for your body to have less toxic effect from the Borax before the supplements start repairs again.
      4- Once you find the steady state Borax dosage, you can look at new effects while maintaining both the Borax removal and supplement improvement without waiting for the swings from a periodic Borax multiple days usage to settle out. This is a big advantage.

      In my case I don’t think the Clindamycin I took in November is out of my system yet. None of my trend charts have returned to the pre-Clindamycin levels. The drug literature says avoid multivalent Ions so I am going to add all of them to my protocol and see what happens. It takes about 3 weeks to see an effect. With everything else stable, this speeds up my search to repair my body.

      Thanks for your help.
      John Taylor

  31. Fred S December 13, 2020 at 8:50 pm Reply

    John Taylor – I think there is some confusion between Borax and Boron. Can you explain the difference? Thanks

    • John Taylor January 9, 2021 at 10:49 pm Reply


      I hope my previous post answers your question.

      John Taylor

  32. Kevin D December 16, 2020 at 7:38 am Reply

    Hello everyone! I was floxed in 2014. Had a very rough first year with tendonitis, depression, high blood pressure, rapid heart beat at random times etc….6 years out and I have learned to live with it as they say. The depression, tendonitis and heart issues have subsided mostly after the first year. The long term issues that I have are the ton of “eye” floaters from vitreous detachment (luckily I didn’t go blind) and body wide fesiculations (muscle twitches) and occasional neuropathy. I take Vitamin D and Magnesium everyday as well as some other supplements. If I could get the muscle twitching to stop I would feel almost whole again. Has anyone else had any luck in getting the twitching to stop? Thanks in advance.

    • Tuula December 16, 2020 at 1:46 pm Reply

      Hello Kevin,
      I took macrobid in 2016, it’s not a fluoroquinolone, yet my symptoms are Floxie like. I did take cipro years prior and realize now my sometimes odd arm tingling, etc. was due to that drug exposure, always had thought I was healthy… like so many others, who took cipro yet ie: now have strange buzzing feet at night, etc. People don’t make the connection. Since macrobid I still have peripheral neuropathy, gut issues (slow transit time), ringing & pulsatile tinnitus, blurry/double vision, muscle pain (if I take magnesium), etc. BUT I have very few if not any fasciculations. After taking macrobid and for years afterwards, my muscles were popping, jumping like I was a popping popcorn machine… legs were the worst and right side of neck. Abnormal protein deposits apparently can cause this. What helped me finally was DIET and time. I had to commit… my diet is basically a Dr. Wahl’s diet (she recovered from MS symptoms) combined with a Dr. Gundry’s diet (avoid high lectin foods- The Plant Paradox). I think going really clean with diet then also keeping a diary may help you find out what is setting you off. Also supplements could be setting you off. Seems something as simple as chocolate can be a trigger for some of us, and can cause symptoms… for me chocolate caused very vicious/violent leg/foot muscle spasms, year after year, each time I tested myself, on this site ie: Ruth -said chocolate caused burning sensation in arms. What is it about chocolate? and why can’t the body still not tolerate chocolate year after year and just not recover.
      Hope this helps,
      I have to say…how ironic- I now have some fasciculations as I write this, in my right elbow, it’s the way I am bending my arm- I know it’s the rice I ate yesterday (I typically avoid grains).

      • Andrea December 16, 2020 at 2:58 pm Reply

        maybe chocolate cause some form of relapse for some of us, because, expecially high cocoa chocolate, like 70% or more, it’s similar to caffeine and we all know how bad caffeine can be for many of us…I don’t just an assumption.

      • Kevin D December 21, 2020 at 7:56 am Reply

        Tuula, thank you for your reply. Yes diet does seem to be the best path for recovery for many. Unfortunately, its also something that most people struggle with. At the suggestion of my chiropractor I did a complete diet overhaul in 2015 (1 year after being floxxed). Ultimately, after about a year I decided that I missed alcohol too much and went back to my old ways. I can’t honestly say that I saw any improvement. At that time, I was still really depressed about everything and drinking and socializng seemed to help improve my outlook. Throughout my 6 years as a floxxie I have good days/bad days and the same applies to the weeks and months. I just don’t see any direct correlation between my actions/diet and symptoms. I will look into Dr.Gundry’s diet and consider taking another shot at diet as a remedy. Conveniently, new years approaches and what better resolution? As for the fasiculation in the elbow, you know what they say: speak of the devil etc….lol. Thanks again for your kind and thoughtful reply.

    • Libby Neefe December 16, 2020 at 5:27 pm Reply

      Hi Kevin
      I was floxed in 2017 after taking Cipro. I didn’t have all the symptoms that you did, but what I found the most helpful and what may help your muscle twitching is following the diet recommended by Dr. Brooke Goldner in her book Goodbye Lupus. She reversed her lupus 15 years with diet and now helps others reverse and inflammatory conditions with the same diet. She’s also worked with several floxies. Provided I stick to the diet and practice good stress relief and get enough sleep I feel about 90 to 95% most of the time.

      • Kevin D December 21, 2020 at 7:58 am Reply

        Libby, thank you for replying. I will investigate the diet that you mentioned along with some of the other suggestions people have kindly provided. Thanks again.

    • John Taylor January 9, 2021 at 10:52 pm Reply

      Kevin D,

      Soaking your feet in a saturated solution of MgCL and Epsom salts should stop the muscle twitches. It takes a lot of magnesium to satisfy the music e cells as you can only get that amount into,your system be bypassing the intestines.

      John Taylor

  33. Andrea December 16, 2020 at 10:05 am Reply

    Hi Kevin, I’m Andrea.
    I was floxed in Dec. 2016. I developed pain in my Achilles tendons and lower legs right away, but the “bomb” really exploded only after 5-6 months. The symtpoms were : excruciating pain in lower legs but also almost every joint in my body, dizziness, head pressure, chronic fatigue. I can describe the pain in the lower legs, expecially the shins, almost like a powerful burning and tingling sensation inside the muslces and bones. I didn’t suffer from muscle twitching, as far as I can remember, but anyway, all these symptoms slowly but gradually improved when I started to “detoxify” : eating really clean, fruits and vegetables expecially, dairy free diet on and off for a while. no junk food ect. But I expecially avoid caffeine in any form, so no coffee, tea, coke or anything else.
    I’ve always found Vit. D to be probably the most important supplement of all the ones I’ve tryed. Expecially useful for “the pain inside the bones”. But like with anything, you’ve to be careful. Have you checked your vitamin d levels? Are you taking vitamin K2 with it? K2 it’s really important for Vit D absorbtion and to get the calcium inside your bones and not in your arteries. Lately on Floxie Hope, the “hot topic” has been Boron (and Borax, but I can’t talk about this one because I’ve never tryed it and I’m not so sure about it). I started to take it lately (boron), and I think it’s doing good so far. Boron is a trace mineral that some studies indicate to raise Vit. D levels in the blood, even in diet that lack this important hormone. If you scroll up, you’ll find one of my comment with 3 different links about it. Another useful thing you can do, is exposing you bare skin, most of it, so in shorts to be clear, at around 12 ‘o clock. Remeber Vit D it’s very important, but the sun has so many others benefits, even for the eyes. It just take as little as 20-30 minutes a day, depending on your complexion and the power of the sun that day, to get lots of Vit. D and many other benefits. There’re studies that have found sun exposure to alleviate or even cure certIain eye disease, so maybe it could be beneficial for your eye floaters. Some say even infrared light therapy is useful for that, but I’m not sure about it.
    Hope this helped a little.

  34. Andrea December 18, 2020 at 4:25 pm Reply

    Hi everybody, has anyone ever had to deal with staph infection after being floxed?

  35. Andrea December 18, 2020 at 6:20 pm Reply

    If anybody read this, please answer ASAP, I’m probably dealing with staph infection, I even have a swollen ankle. Tomorrow I’m going to the doctor and see if it’s what I’m afraid it might be. Anyway, if it was the case, I already know what he’s going to give me…antibiotics, that’s why I’m asking you, have you ever have to deal with it after being floxed? Any natural (effective) remedies that you might suggest? I already put a little bit of tea tree oil on the rush, but I’m not sure it would do anything…
    Thank you in advance

    • Barbara Arnold December 18, 2020 at 11:25 pm Reply

      Possibly Colloidal silver Andrea. Kills all bugs and virus.

      • Don M December 19, 2020 at 8:31 am Reply

        I’ll second that! Good stuff! I use it regularly for many different things. Lab and practical use shows that CS is effective against over 600 different bacteria, viruses and fungus. It is even being found that concomitant use with present antibiotics makes them work better in some cases. It was a staple in the medical world until antibiotics came along. AND CS WILL NOT TURN YOU BLUE UNLESS YOU ABUSE IT’S USE AND MAKING!

      • Andrea December 19, 2020 at 2:22 pm Reply

        All right,thanks Don and Barbara.

        • Barbara Arnold December 21, 2020 at 12:09 am

          Forgot to say Andrea you can get topical spray colloidal silver. I know, if I remember right you were a bit nervous of it. It is perfectly safe though , like anything as long as you don’t abuse it.

    • Kevin D December 21, 2020 at 7:46 am Reply

      Andrea, thanks for your response to my post. In regards to the staph issue, I can suggest 2 supplements that I take daily: Agrisept-L and Allicin Max(The one from the UK). I train jiu jitsu and have been taking these to help prevent picking anything up from the mats. Both are available on amazon. I swear by the Agrisept. Been taking it since before Cipro issue and I almost never get sick and when I do I’m over it in a day. Its a great piece of mind in Flu/Covid season.

      • Andrea December 21, 2020 at 10:25 am Reply

        Thank a lot Kevin, I’ll look it up!
        I used to train grappling/jiu jitsu too, man…I miss those days…

  36. Lukasz December 23, 2020 at 2:08 pm Reply

    Can someone please recommend a topical magnesium supplement (no additives) which works well to combat muscle spams, ideally one that ships to Canada?

    • Lukasz December 23, 2020 at 2:20 pm Reply

      Also, does anyone have experience with acupuncture and Chinese herbs? Can these methods only improve the situation or is there a possibility of them making matters worse?

      • Andrea December 24, 2020 at 12:25 pm Reply

        It depends on what you’re looking for from acupuncture. Some of us have tried it and had some benefits from it, as far as pain reduction. Me, personally, I’ve tried it in the past, both the traditional way and electroacupuncture, but it didn’t much for me afterall, and it was pretty expensive too. Oh and, Merry Christmas to you too.

        • Lukasz December 24, 2020 at 8:51 pm

          Thanks for the feedback, Andrea. An acupuncturist once told me that one of the benefits of acupuncture is better organ function but I’m not sure if that’s really the case or him trying to sell me on the treatment. From your experience, does it hurt when the needles are being inserted and removed?

      • Andrea December 25, 2020 at 10:09 am Reply

        If the acupuncturist knows what he’s doing, it should never hurt, but sometimes, in my case, it happened that he missed the right spot and went direclty into the nerve. That hurt for like a second, it was like a powerful sting, but just for a split second. So, except for some inconvenience, it was a painless procedure.

        • Lukasz December 30, 2020 at 11:14 am

          Good to know. I may take a chance on it in the near future. Thanks again.

    • Aga December 23, 2020 at 2:30 pm Reply

      Hi Lukasz,

      I use the magnesium oil from BetterYou British company. It does not contain additives.
      Not sure if they ship their products to Canada, but check on their web page.

      Link below:

      Unfortunately I cannot help re acupuncture and Chinese herbs. I look for a good acupuncturist here in Spain as well.

      • Lukasz December 23, 2020 at 5:02 pm Reply

        Hey Aga. Thanks a lot. This one fits the bill and they also ship to Canada. What’s your experience with it like? Does it help relieve muscle spasms that go off all day? Do you use the recommended 10 sprays or do you use more than that?

        • Aga December 31, 2020 at 2:02 am

          Hi Lukasz,

          Yes, it helped me to get rid of legs cramps I had during the nights. I use approx. 10-12 sprays before going to bed. According to the supplement note 10 sprays delivers 200mg of magnesium.
          I recommend you start with just few sprays 2-3 and then gradually increase it, because you can have tingling sensation. Apparently this sensation may indicate low magnesium levels and is the result of the high speed absorption of magnesium through the pores. I experienced it at the begging, but that feeling went away with the regular use of oil.

          Hope that helps you. Take care and Happy New Year!

        • Lukasz December 31, 2020 at 1:15 pm

          Hi Aga, great info and good to know. Thanks for the advice.
          Happy New Year to you as well. Hope 2021 treats you well.

    • Andrea December 24, 2020 at 12:20 pm Reply

      Hi Lukasz, if you’re looking for a topical form of magnesium, on the market there’s the Ancient Minerals magnesium oil, or you can always try Epsom Salt (Magnesium sulfate),for baths, if you have a bathtub, but NEVER USE IT INTERNALLY.

      • Lukasz December 24, 2020 at 9:31 pm Reply

        Thanks, Andrea. I looked into the Ancient Minerals brand but their shipping cost to Canada is through the roof. I did use Epsom Salt in the past but it was somewhat inconvenient to use so now I’m after a spray bottle.

    • Fred S December 26, 2020 at 7:22 pm Reply
      • Lukasz December 30, 2020 at 11:09 am Reply

        Thanks for the suggestion Fred.

    • John Taylor January 9, 2021 at 10:59 pm Reply


      Amazon sells Magnesium oil and magnesium lotion. The oil will dry out while the lotion contains an oil so your skin is greasy. Both work. I use both.

      John Taylor

  37. Lukasz December 23, 2020 at 10:11 pm Reply

    Merry Christmas to all. I know the Holidays aren’t the same since getting floxed, not even close, but nevertheless I wish for you all to have a pain-free and symptom-free Holiday Season.

  38. Don M December 24, 2020 at 4:01 am Reply

    Lukasz……. In the US in Fargo ND there is Swanson Vitamins. (Big organization in business many years) Swanson’s has magnesium oil. https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-dr-barbara-hendels-magnesium-oil-3-8oz-bottles-liquid?otherSize=SWU481 You can buy the single 8 oz. bottle, the 3 pk of the 8 oz. bottles, a half gallon of it and also a 2.2 pound jar of flakes.

    I use several sprays of oil regularly to eliminate leg cramps and boost the magnesium in my system. Cramping muscles is a sign that you are low on magnesium.

    North Dakota is closer than overseas. Swanson also ships free but has order minimums for the free shipping. I have bought from Swanson Vitamins for many years.

    • Lukasz December 24, 2020 at 10:00 pm Reply

      Thanks, Don. This looks like a good option. Appreciate your help.

    • Lukasz December 24, 2020 at 10:03 pm Reply

      Btw, how many sprays do you normally use on a daily basis?

      • Don M December 29, 2020 at 9:48 pm Reply

        Lukasz…….. Looks like no one else is going to comment on the number of sprays daily. I use it as many times a day as I want to and most of the time I spray it into my hand and rub it on. I may spray as many as 10 sprays in the hand and do this 3 or 4 times to get enough to rub on my legs. I use it mainly on my lower legs but sometimes on my thighs too. I don’t think that within reason you can get to much this way. The excess just won’t be absorbed. It dries up into a powder on the surface of the skin. You then just wipe it away with a wet cloth.
        I will say this. I find that it definitely stops leg cramps very quickly.

        • Lukasz December 30, 2020 at 11:03 am

          Thanks for the reply, Don. I’m going to try it out very soon.

    • Lukasz December 24, 2020 at 10:08 pm Reply

      I’m guessing the body can expel excessive amounts of magnesium?

      • John Taylor January 13, 2021 at 10:20 am Reply


        The kidneys remove excess Magnesium by natural dilution until the level stabilizes about 1 gram in a 150 to 200 pound body. It takes about 24 hours. However you need 3 pounds or so in your tissues or 1500 grams. So if deficient like leg cramps and sore muscles indicate, one needs to raise the concentration in the blood to increase a absorption into the tissues. You can increase the magnesium to maybe 25 grams in the blood with soaking your feet in magnesium chloride and Epsom salts. Over a day that averages out to 12 times more Magnesium available. To increase the tissues say 50% or 750 grams at 12 grams per day that’s about 2 months. Recently I needed to increase my MgCl level and it took 4 months…So this estimate 25 grams is a little too generous.

        Topical applications are also good because they adsorb right into the muscle where they are applied. You really can’t overdo topical applications because the salt will be used elsewhere in the body and the kidney dilution effect will bring the magnesium level back to normal anyway.

        Well, there is another side to “over do.” If you are extremely Magnesium deficient, like a non-stop charley horse, than these saturated salt soaks and applications can be painful because the salt gradient is too high across the cell membrane, causing the muscle to contract. If you experience that just cut the salt concentration in half and try again.

  39. Joanneg December 24, 2020 at 11:05 am Reply

    Andrea, I had a rash for months that I thought was staph but I never went to the doctors so I don’t know for sure what it was. Anyhow I tried many things, and what finally helped was Milk of Magnesia

    • Andrea December 24, 2020 at 12:28 pm Reply

      Thanks Joanneg, can I ask you if you used it internally or directly on the rash?

      • Don M December 24, 2020 at 6:10 pm Reply

        Andrea….. Maybe it is a bit far out but might one of the hand sanitizers work? Many of them are made with Alo and vitamin E as well as the 60+% alcohol.

  40. Joanneg December 24, 2020 at 12:35 pm Reply

    I used it topically

  41. Andrea December 25, 2020 at 10:12 am Reply

    Does anyone knows why, everytime I try to post a comment containg a link directing to another web page, it always shows “your comment is awaiting moderation”, but it doesn’t show up even after a few hours?

    • Don M December 26, 2020 at 7:38 am Reply

      Andrea……….. Most likely the reason is that you are trying to post more than “ONE” link. Any time more than one link per post is done it appears that it goes to moderation. That seems to delay it’s posting and sometimes it is sent to the trash. If it is happening after you post only one link I don’t have an answer.

      • Andrea December 26, 2020 at 10:24 am Reply

        I posted just one link this time….

  42. Don M December 30, 2020 at 6:41 am Reply

    Anyone know the status of John Taylor? It has been 3 weeks since he posted anything.

  43. Lukasz December 30, 2020 at 12:42 pm Reply

    Has anyone here found a way to repair the nerve damage associated with antibiotic toxicity? I’m talking about the constant nerve tremors. They’ve been going off for 6 years straight now. Is there anything out there that will stop the tremors and repair the nerves?

    • Andrea December 30, 2020 at 3:28 pm Reply

      it’s diffcoult to answer your question. Everyone is different. I’ve never had nerve tremors, but in the past I’ve had terrible pain, attributable to peripheral neuropathy. It never completely went away, but with time it improved dramatically. Anyway, it’s difficoult to answer also because I don’t know your situation. What are your current symptoms? How’s your diet? Do you drink coffee? What supplements are you taking right now?
      Giving up cofee was something that helped tremendously.
      Another thing that defently helps me for my pain it’s vitamin D. Remember, vitamin D it’s really an hormone, and it regulates so many things, so it has a role in the function of the nervous system too. Have you ever checked your vitamin D levels? If not, I think it’s something you should do.
      Another (recent) thing that I’m sure it’s helping to control pain it’s medical cannabis. I’m talking about real cannabis, not CBD. If I understand correclty you live in Canada, a Cannabis friendly country, right? Why not giving cannabis a try? I think it should be way easier to get a prescription there than it is here in Italy, and I’m almost sure the quality would be way better too. Remember, cannabis was antagonized and demonized during the ’30s to help the development of big pharma and the business of syntetic drugs. but in reality it’s a medicinal herb, with plenty of benefits, expecially regarding the nervous system. Of course it has it’s side effects, so you probably need to be careful, but in my personal opinion, I would defenetly give it a try instead of trying some prescription pill from some neurologist, who knows nothing about “alternative remedies”, that in reality have been around for thousand of years. Just my opinion of course, but look at all those Multiple Sclerosis or Parkinson’s disease patients treated with cannabis…Anyway, whatever you decide, be careful and let me know, so maybe we can share some experience.
      Take care,

      • Andrea December 30, 2020 at 3:40 pm Reply

        PS, I’m now reading that Cannabis in Canada is completely legal, for both medical and recreational use, so you don’t even need a prescription (you lucky bastard) sorry, just kidding 😁, but really, it’s something I’m very envious of…

        • Fred S December 30, 2020 at 5:04 pm

          Legal in MA also 😉

      • Lukasz December 31, 2020 at 1:37 pm Reply

        Thanks for taking the time to share your views, Andrea. I’m going to try the magnesium first and see if that settles the nerves and nervous system itself. And I agree with you completely, we should always seek to use as many natural remedies as possible. I’ll be staying away from all things synthetic until the end of my days.

        Getting close to midnight over in Italy so I wish you Happy New Year and lots of health in 2021.

    • John Taylor January 9, 2021 at 11:41 pm Reply


      Andrea’s comments are good. She has helped many people I am sure. I will go a little deeper into nerve spasms.

      I had no nerve function in my right leg for two months thanks to Cipro. Now they work normally.

      Spasms are like a broken wire that makes and breaks contact. The nerve is telling the muscle to seek a certain contraction and the the single is lost so the muscle relaxes. We have sensory nerve that say “I am in this position.” Then the signal,is lost so the brain sends out a signal to contract , and the muscle contracts.

      Floxies get damaged in two ways that affect nerve function. The easiest to correct is salts. When toxic damage occurs we dissolve and send our ingredients down the drain. Repairs need the chemistry we lost so they commonly take it from muscles to,keep.our essential organs alive. Nerve conductivity is based on salt. NaCl is the main salt but Mg Cl is also important. Foot soaks with MgCL and Epsom salts will help. Make sure there is solid salt in the bottom of t he bucket. Pink Himalayan Rock salt contains many many different salts. Just salting your food with this will tune up the conductivity part.

      Nerves also need energy to function. Antibiotics damage the mitochondria take make energy inside the cells from glucose. Antibiotics also damage the glucose transport through the cell membrane mechanism. Earlier posts tells how to repair mitochondria.

      One way you can test the need to repair the energy function is d-ribose. It is a sugar that is the first step in the mitochondria conversion of glucose to energy. So taking d-ribose cuts the work of the mitochondria in half. If you eat 2-3 spoonfuls and the spasms stop, you need to repair the mitochondria.

      I hope you have a spasm free 2021.

      John Taylor

  44. John Taylor December 31, 2020 at 8:04 am Reply

    Hi all,

    I have been unable to blog for the month of December due to some physical,biochemistry issues and an rough spot in keeping up with my bills. The bills part is past now and will strat trying to answer your questions.

    I apologize for the delay and feel,really bad that I have not kept up.

    John Taylor

    • Don M December 31, 2020 at 2:43 pm Reply

      Hello John. Glad to see you back with us.

  45. Andrea December 31, 2020 at 1:00 pm Reply

    Hey everyone, some of us, Don in particular, if I remember correclty, wrote about Red/Near Infrared light therapy. Anyway, long story short, I’ve bought a Deep Red Light lamp, to test if the alleged benefits are real. I already know that Near Infrared it’s used mostly for deeper penetration, so for things like arthritis, joint pain etc., while Red Light it’s used for skin issues, colagen production, but surprsingly, one studie suggets it can be beneficial for your eyesight too. Anywya, today I’ve tried it direclty on my face, at about 30 cm from my face (the suggested distance), and form time to time I stared at the light for a few seconds. I think this was a mistake. Just looking direclty at the light was very intense, quite uncomfortable to be honest, so I don’t think I’m going to look at it again, but do you think I should use some form of protection even if my eyes are closed?
    Thank you, and…almost Happy New Year everyone.

    • Don M December 31, 2020 at 2:40 pm Reply

      Andrea………. I never look at the light or shine it on my face. It is said to be OK but I don’t do it. Eye protection? YES! I have a light bulb with 12 LEDs’ of both the infrareds and reds, a light panel that has 225 LEDs’ in it of both the infrareds and reds and one of the Cold Laser hand helds. Good, worth while Cold Lases are rather expensive.
      A bulb takes at least 30 minutes of exposure on any part of the body to begin to be effective.
      45 minutes to an hour is the best.
      Same with the light light panel but the panel covers a larger area. Cold Lasers are more concentrated so they are more effective much quicker. Maybe 5 to 10 minutes of exposure and one can begin to feel results.
      I use the light therapy mostly to relieve pain. Putting neuropathy hurting feet under the panel for an hour eliminates the pain. Makes them feel warm and cozy. The bad part of it all is that the effects of the therapy don’t last to long. One must do it over again. I find No limit on the number of times per day (or night) to use the lights. If it hurts I use the lights. Sometimes both the lights and Cold Laser. Maybe it is just me thinking it but when one starts the treatment the sore spot hurts worse for a few “short” minutes, then the body’s endorphins start to work and the discomfort subsides. It seems that one can feel things working.
      You might read up on PEMF. Check out the Bob Beck protocol. There is plenty of information about the subject on Google. PEMF works similar to the light therapy and the pain relief results are also similar. To be effective it takes regular use of them. Bottom line. The working principle of both therapies is that they increase the blood flow to the area.

      Don’t expect some miraculous results immediately.
      Just a few more hours and 2020 will be behind us. Lets hope that 2021 is better for us all.

      • Andrea December 31, 2020 at 4:59 pm Reply
        • Don M December 31, 2020 at 6:52 pm

          Andrea…. Very interesting. Note that it is the 670 nm deep red light and not 850 nm infrared light. Be sure what you have is only the 670 nm deep red light. Everything I have also has the 850 nm infrared LEDs too. That is why I was cautioning you about looking at the light. I am 86 years old and have macular degeneration (AMD). I get a shot in each eye about every 8 to 12 weeks. AMD is a situation where errant blood vessels grow behind the retina and move it away from where it is supposed to be. Eventually the person goes legally blind. The drug Ranibizumab (trade name: Lucentis) is very expensive. But it has been found that the off label drug Avastin is effective and much cheaper. Avastin is a chemotherapy drug that is found to be effective at drying up the errant blood vessels behind the retina. So far after being 2 years into the treatment I am stable. Some sight deterioration but still am maintaining about 20/30.
          I asked the eye specialist about blue blocker lenses for computer glasses. He was very unimpressed about them. His opinion is about the same for the deep red light. Not surprising when they make their living off expensive procedures and drugs.

          I find that in most cases learning from the experiences of fellow bloggers is as good or better than what the medical establishment offers.

        • Andrea January 1, 2021 at 9:25 am

          Don, what I’ve bought is exaclty a deep red 670 nm light, but to me, it’s still too bright and powerful, besides, since yesterday, my eyes are kinda painful. Not really something to be worryed about, but like that sensation you feel after looking at the tv or a computer for too long. So, for now, I’m not going to use it on my face again, without wearing a couple of those small plastic patches they use in the tanning bed first.
          Today I’ve used it on a small wound I’ve on my foot, let’s see if it speeds up the healing process.
          Now, about the blue light blocker lenses. Here in Italy there’s a great doctor, who in the past studied and worked in the US too, her name is Debora Rasio. She’s an oncologist and a nutritionist. She’s very into natural approaches for preventing diseases. She’s very aware of the benefits of Vitamin D, sun light, and also red/infrared light therapy. She stress about how dangerous screen lights, so blue lights, are to human eyesight, and she incourages people to use protective lens while watching the light emitted by the screens of our tv’s and computers, so I guess you’re right about your eye specialist not being to impressed by those lenses…of course, less people with damaged eyesight, less money for him…
          Happy new year anyway Don.

  46. Lukasz December 31, 2020 at 2:14 pm Reply

    Happy (soon to be) New Year, everyone. Hope you will all make great progress in 2021 and feel much improved by the end of the year. Let’s hope the global situation improves as well.

    • Andrea December 31, 2020 at 4:52 pm Reply

      Thanks Lukasz, for the kind words…I hope you’ll find relief soon…am Happy New Year everyone

  47. Barbara Arnold December 31, 2020 at 11:24 pm Reply



    • Madge Hirsch January 2, 2021 at 4:20 pm Reply

      Hi Barbara -Bonne Année. Have you had your last kidney test result yet? I am back from the clinic with my new hip. Had op on 16th and came out on 21st. Surgeon said that he had had a hard time doing the op as my bones are small and even the smallest prothesis was a struggle to get in. Now my right leg is slightly longer than the left. He says he will correct this when he operates on the left hip next year 😣. The rehab is hard . The exercises are hurting my fragile tendons and my extra sensitivity to drugs means I can only take a fraction of the painkillers prescribed. Having said that he has prescribed an enormous amount 3000mg Paracetamol and 150mg Tramadol a day!! I am managing on 1000mg Paracetamol one day and 50mg Tramadol the next. I have to sleep on my back and every morning I wake up stiff as a board and my body screaming for the painkiller. I feel that the trauma of the op has reactivated my floxing symptoms a bit which is a drag as I was getting a bit better. The physio says the op is brutal and it takes at least 6 weeks for the soft tissues to recover so it’s early days yet. Wishing you and your husband good health in 2021 and that all of us get more freedom ! Love Madge

      • Barbara Arnold January 2, 2021 at 11:23 pm Reply

        Oh Madge I am so sorry to hear you are having such a painful time. It must be so hard for you. The op you had is a major one without being a floxie let alone with.
        Have you considered looking into Kratom as a painkiller, it certainly helped me when things were very painful. I don’t need to take it now thank goodness, but I always have some aside should I need it in the future. Also I have heard others say medical cannabis can help. I don’t know about that as I have had no experience with it.
        Like you said it’s early days yet and I do hope you get to feel better soon.
        Let me know how you progress.
        Lets hope this year will improve for us all in this mad world. xxxxx💜

        • Madge Hirsch January 3, 2021 at 11:32 am

          Unfortunately France made Kratom illegal earlier this year. I smoked hash when I was younger but often got paranoid so I would be wary about using it. Also illegal here! I will improve when I am able to sleep comfortably on my side. Even with the obligatory pillow between the knees it is not possible now . I am pretty sure my anticoagulant makes my aches and pains worse and normally I only take 3/4 of the dose . Before the op I had to stop it and have bridging jabs for 8 days. I noticed a definite diminution of pain. But since the op I have been taking the full dose as I don’t want a DVT. Well yesterday I went back down to 3/4 and was slightly better this morning. Extra sensitivity to drugs is another floxie nightmare! The Tramadol works well on the pain but I am wary of taking more as I don’t want my body to get used to it – also it upsets my digestion. It is very cold here and today we had some snow. That dies not help either!

      • Andrea January 3, 2021 at 5:42 pm Reply

        Madge, stay strong! I’m sorry you’re dealing with such pain now, I hope everything will be fine for you

        • Madge Hirsch January 11, 2021 at 6:43 am

          Thanks Andrea. I am improving. I have managed to ditch the painkillers as they were upsetting my digestion. I am more mobile now and have had my staples removed. Post op fatigue is a big problem – far more than with either of my major abdominal ops. My physio said the hip replacement is actually a brutal op and theybash you about quite a lot! The rehab is putting a lot of strain on my fragile tendons. Nobody seems to understand that floxed bodies are at a huge disadvantage to start off with! Glad the medical cannabis is working. No chance of that here. I would be reluctant anyway as I used to smoke dope when younger and sometimes got paranoid. I gave up probably around the time of my first floxing.

      • Barbara Arnold January 4, 2021 at 4:43 am Reply

        It seems BIG PHARMA has been at work in France banning a perfectly safe natural painkiller. So sick of these corrupt pharmacuetical companies, damaging people for profit.
        It seems time will be your friend Madge, hopefully you’ll improve soon.

        I see the kidney specialist on the 21st of this month, but I had another blood test and my creatinine level had more than halved, so before I go to see him I’m asking yet again for another blood test to see if the level has gone down even further.I don’t know, but the cause could have been to much protein as I was trying to lose weight. I am back to a normal diet and I’ve been taking chitosan and a quarter of a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda, all to assist the kidney’s and it seems to be working. Fingers crossed.
        I have found that being my own Doctor is much more preferrable to seeing a real Doctor, well not seeing, that would be a miracle, as, as difficult as it is with language problems, we can only get telephone consultation. I’ve learned to take care of myself through research as no one else takes care of me. Of course it’s different with operations, cancer, heart etc, then you do really need a specialist.

        Hang in there Madge and keep in touch , get well soon. xx

        • Madge Hirsch January 11, 2021 at 8:22 am

          Hi Barbara – so pleased your blood tests are returning to normal. Let’s hope the specialist says you are ok. I had to have some blood test the other day prior to seeing my surgeon on Thursday for my 1 month post op. They said they were going to transfuse me in the clinic as my red blood count was low ( probably bled loads during the op due to what I suspect was too much Lovenox that replaced my oral anticoagulant for 8 days before hand) . Then they changed their minds at the last minute but I think my count might still be low and that’s why I am so tired. My staples have all come out and the nurse pronounced the scar ” nickel” . I am down to one stick which is easier for moving around the house as I can carry things but for my walking practice two are better because that supports the unoperated hip more. The physio is torture because of my tendons and I feel the trauma to my body has brought on a cycle as I’ve been having more PN than usual. I can’t really see why it would come back other than a cycle. This year in August I will be 6 years out . I have seen some improvements in general floxie symptoms and cycles are shorter and less bad but I long for them not to return! It must be awful having only telephone consultations. Our GP operates as normal but this is an area with low virus circulation. There are very few people in the waiting room so I think they must be spacing appointments more. I am comfortable chatting to my French friends on the phone but I still find it harder than face to face. I would find a first appointment with a specialist difficult even in English! Look after yourself and stay safe. Xxx

  48. A.Coleman January 4, 2021 at 10:27 am Reply

    Hey everybody – Happy New Year

    I haven’t posted in a long time because I had been recovering so well. My headaches and brain fog were progressing nicely; not cured but no longer a huge issue; my digestion was finally getting close to normal and even my neck problems were getting better. Neuropathy was still a mild issue; but one that was “controlled” and I only noted a few days a week.

    I was thinking that I might be a few months from being well. I was having about 20% of all days that were in the realm of normal the last two months and then right before Christmas my neuropathy went haywire. Worst it has been since the first year as a floxie (for those of you I don’t know I have been a floxie a bit over 5 years).

    I traditionally have neuropathy limited to my feet with very occasional flares in my hands and lower limbs. Now I have neuropathy in all those areas at once and it is pretty severe. I am so depressed since I was feeling so good before this relapse. I just don’t understand what triggered it. I live in the northern US and cold weather always makes it a bit worse; but this is way worse than it normally is even in January.

    I had reduced my B vitamins to try to get my body to produce more on its own. Compared to 18 months ago I am taking about 1/8 of the Vitamin B complex that I was then and until recently doing okay on that in terms of neuropathy. I pulsed my B vitamins taking 1/2 of my previous dose but on only 2 days a week and 1/4 my previous dose the other day; with four days with no B vitamins. I plan to go back to 1/4 dose every day of the week and see if that helps any for a while before doing anything else.

    I am posting because I want to know if anyone has taken Nortriptyline after floxing? This same drug has been suggested to me by three different doctors for symptoms I have from floxing. My neurologist suggested it for headaches, it was suggested for insomnia and by a spine care specialist for neuropathy. I would not be taking it like I would for anti-depression but at a much smaller dose (25 to 50 mg daily); but I am starting to consider it.

    I haven’t had any prescription drugs for 5 years other than starting a blood pressure med around 18 months ago. I am hesitant to take drugs; especially ones that don’t treat issues but mask symptoms, but with so many issues converging on the same recommended drug and the very low dose, compared to “normal” that I would be taking that I am considering it.

    Anybody have any experience or suggestions?? Thanks.

    • Michael January 15, 2021 at 11:42 pm Reply

      A. Coleman

      I was wondering how you’ve been. Happy new year.

      Your story keeps reminding me of my own. It’s like we share the same floxing phenotype of predominantly neuropathy and some brain fog.

      I took nortriptyline after floxing. I did not think it helped much if at all and only made me drowsy and had other side effects too.

      I settled on gabapentin however I stopped that also as I did not like the side effects including weight gain.

      I don’t know what the answer is but I’ve read about “scrambler” therapy for CIPN which may be useful for us.

      I haven’t been that good.

      I’ve had ups and downs of course but I am troubled with significant brain fog now. I get very tired and spacey. My neuropathy varies from almost not there at all to significant and up to my knees and sometimes my forearms also.

      One thing I strongly suspect is that I had additional B6 toxicity. It could be a coincidence of course but that’s something I think may have contributed to my worsening. So I cut all B complex last year and in the last few days I’ve stopped all supplements altogether to see what my baseline is.

      I hope you pull through this. I’m in the same boat as you. Wish I could say something more to help.

      • A.Coleman January 19, 2021 at 2:51 pm Reply

        Michael, thanks for your reply. I agree we seem to have very similar responses to FQs. My neuropathy flare is starting to subside a bit. I was specificially thinking that you might have tried the nortriptyline when I wrote that post since I knew you had taken gabapentin before. Prior to this flare I was like you with neuropathy; most days I didn’t know it was there until I exercised, then the repeated pounding on my feet would trigger it for a few hours; and a few days a month it would flare for a day or two. My current flare is a bit over a month though.

        I wouldn’t be considering taking the nortriptyline at all if it hadn’t been the recommendation of three different docs for different situations. I know I won’t take it just for the neuropathy. And “knock on wood” my headaches and brain fog as well as insomnia continue to slowly improve.

        If we are truly following the same path and I am a few years in front of you then you may have a few years of brain fog and headaches in store; though I sincerely hope not. My problems with headaches and brain fog started about 2 1/2 to 3 years ago got really bad from Spring of 2019 to Summer of 2020. I am improving now though with brain fog only one or two days a month and headaches only one or two days a week and even then rarely all day headaches.

        I never figured anything out either; though pulsing my B vitamins, which I started in January of 2020 has seemed to help. At the suggestion of a naturopath who specializes in MTHFR I started taking 500mcg of B12 and 500mcg folate M, W, F and skipping the other days. Given my recent neuropathy problems I have added 250mcg of both on T, R; but will stop either when my neuropathy returns to my “normal” or at the end of February for sure.

        Keep the faith; it will most likely get better eventually. I really think 2021 or early 2022 will be when I can finally write a recovery story.

  49. A.Coleman January 4, 2021 at 10:37 am Reply

    Hey everyone on another note; I wanted to let you know about my experience with COVID as a floxie. Despite me almost never leaving the house; my wife caught COVID and of course then so did I. (Note; my wife was careful too – she caught it while visiting with her sister, who had had a negative test three days prior and both were masked except they made the poor decision to eat a meal and were unmasked during the meal (while maintaining social distance) and my sister-in-law gave it to my wife who gave it to me. There was a silver lining – somehow my 88 year old father-in-law, with whom they were visiting, never contracted it.

    I was lucky that I had a pretty mild course. I had a cough and was tired and achy for around a week but that was the major problems. I did have a high pulse rate off and on even three weeks after getting sick – and it was major (my resting pulse is usually in the low 60s upper 70s and it would spike to 110 to 120 for a few hours once every four or five days).

    I was VERY fatigued and combined with floxie fatigue this was the major symptom I dealt with. It took two months to get back to a normal floxie level of fatigue, which for me these days isn’t too far from pre-floxing levels most days.

    I do note that my BP ticked up a few points after COVID and hasn’t gone down yet. A bit of me wonders if my relapse of the neuropathy isn’t partially due to the stress COVID put on my body – it probably is.

    I would prefer to have never had COVID, especially as long term effects are still unknown; but wanted to let you know how it impacted me.

    • Andrea January 4, 2021 at 3:24 pm Reply

      A. Coleman,
      I don’t have any experience with Nortriptyline, but I googled it, it’s an antidepressant, the neurologists probably suggested it because in – relatively – small dosage, it could act as a muscle relaxant? I don’t know, but that’s what happened to me when 2 different neurologist wanted me to take Lyrica (Pregabalin) wich is an anticonvulsant and anxiolitic, but in small dosage act as a muscle relaxant and bla,bla,bla…they still are syntetic psychotropic drugs. Just read the side effects or the experience from people who already used it, they can be really nasty. A few months ago, for 14 days, I’ve taken Clonazepam. a benzo, after a doctor suggested it. It made me feel like crap right away. I was always groggy, irritable and tired. After 14 days I stopped, and after a couple of days, I started to feel better, but it took me a good 5-7 days, to get back to normal, and I took a small dosage for a short period of time.

      I don’t really know what could have triggered you symptoms, who knows, actually? Floxie symptoms are so sneaky… You’ve mentioned you catched covid, when was it?

      Anyway, I know I’ve touched this subject already, but have you ever tryed medical cannabis?
      I did, and it has been a good experience for me. The level of pain decreased quite a bit, I feel good overall, but most importantly, no side effects whatsoever, except being a little high at night, wich to me, it’s a pleasent side effect…It has been ages since my last joint (I was probably 20 or something like that) before this new experience with cannabis (medical grade), and I was quite scared, to tell you the truth, but as I wrote earlier, it has been a nice experience so far.
      You’ve mentioned you live in the US, possibly in a State where cannabis is legal? Maybe you could give it a shot. It’s just a suggestion of course, I’m not trying to convicne you in any way, but to me, it’s defently a better option than some syntethic, chemical crap.

      • Andrea January 4, 2021 at 3:33 pm Reply

        Sorry, I want to add something, about my experience with Clonazepam. I went to the doctor who finally prescribed it to me, because she’s specialized in pain therapy treatment, so I was hoping she would prescribe something “alternative”. I even asked her about cannabis, this was before my experience with medical cannabis, but she was very reluctuant, because she said, there’re no proof cananbis could help this kind of pain, SMH, and instead, there’re plenty for Gabapentin…It’s always the same story, they’re so manipulated by the pharmaceutical companies, they don’t even know what they’re talking about…

      • A.Coleman January 4, 2021 at 4:04 pm Reply

        Andrea, thanks for replying. I would be taking the nortriptyline for headaches, insomnia and neuropathy – all three. I would not consider it independently for any single case; but when all three independently suggested it I started considering it. I had planned to hold off for 3 months and then re-evaluate; but that was before this relapse.

        I took a more modern anti-depressant (Lexapro and SSRI) for nearly 10 years without any real problems. I stopped it and only had mild withdrawal symptoms. So, that was why I was considering this drug.

        As to my COVID diagnosis. I came down with COVID in mid-October and began feeling “normal” around December 1. I do think COVID could possibly be behind this relapse.

        My firm next step is to have a conversation with the naturopath who treats my MTHFR issues and Vitamin Bs as I had decreased those a lot and see if I should increase those for a while. I won’t take the nortriptyline for at least a month; but wanted to start getting input from this group now.

        As to medical cannabis – it is not legal in the state where I live.

        • Andrea January 4, 2021 at 6:34 pm

          Uhm…so your covid sympotms lasted for about 1.5 months…that’s a long recovery, but I’ve actually heard about quite a few people here in Italy, who tested positive, who, as you, took a long, long time to recover, and at leas one of them is a young, healthy man…Well, this shows how strong your immune system stil is, despite all the mess created by the FQ. But yeah…probably this relapse you’re experiencing now, is related to your covid infection.
          Anyway, I hope the naturopath who you’re working with, could help you out of this jam…

        • Patricia January 10, 2021 at 8:52 pm

          A Coleman…
          I’m a floxie too, recovered for a few years now. I recently got covid and am also experiencing a flare up of neuropathy.
          Did the same thing happen to you? I’m trying to figure out of it’s a flare up or long haul covid….I hope it’s a flare though!

        • A.Coleman January 11, 2021 at 9:33 am

          Patricia; no idea if it is COVID related or flare.

          What I can say is that on the day that I felt the worst with COVID I had a weird all over body tingling on the front service of my body. Similar to neuropathy but everywhere on my skin. Next day was much better and by the third day not only was it gone; but my neuropathy was better. It stayed like that for about 6 weeks and then I had this recent flare.

          I don’t think my current problems are directly related to COVID but may be the result of my body trying to recover from COVID and using up some resources; magnesium or B12 or something else.

  50. Can Floxies Drink Alcohol? – Floxiehope January 4, 2021 at 12:34 pm Reply

    […] This comment from Mark also notes that alcohol consumption can lead to fluoroquinolone toxicity symptom flares: […]

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