Floxie Hope

Floxie.Hope.1800.72.dpi

This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa

 

 

 

16,157 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Agata February 10, 2017 at 6:29 am Reply

    Hi Lisa
    I woul like to ask you how to avoid fluorid….i know its in toothpaste, cooking pans…teflon……water(our country does not fluorinate water)…..what else? Can you tell me more specific?
    Thank you very much

    • L February 10, 2017 at 11:38 am Reply

      Hi Agata, I am sure Lisa will respond, but I saw this so I thought I would add my two cents. You just really need to either read labels or do research. Things like toothpaste I either get at a healthfood store or order online. If you are unsure you can always contact the manufacturer. For other things, like pharmaceuticals, which I try to avoid to begin with, you really have to go online and research them. For example, I was on inhalers for asthma. I already knew they had steroids in them, which is bad enough, but then I discovered that they also contained fluoride, once I went online and looked for ingredients.

      For water, if it is fluoridated where you live, you can buy bottled water, with varying degrees of fluoride. I go to a water store and buy distilled water. The problem with distilled is that it is “dead” water, missing key minerals you need–so I add them back in with fulvic acid or something called concentrace, which is mineral replacement (that is a brand name and there are other brands out there.)

      Mainstream dentistry uses fluoride, which is why I recommend, if at all possible, that floxies find a holistic dentist. They don’t use fluoride, and they use materials and methods that are more bio-compatible. The gold standard for these dentists is Huggins training. You can search online for Huggins trained dentists.

  2. Agata February 10, 2017 at 1:37 pm Reply

    Hi
    Thanks for replay, i am avoiding this things you mentioned, but what about food….tea, vegetables?

    • Lisa February 11, 2017 at 10:43 am Reply

      Hi Agata,

      I agree with the advice that others have given. It’s horrible that tea (including many herbal teas) have fluoride in them. It makes me sad.

      I try to avoid fluoride, and I think that avoiding it is a very good idea for “floxies.” Cut it out as much as you reasonably can. Jason Uttley credits eliminating fluoride from his water (through drinking reverse osmosis water) for his recovery. You can read more about fluoride here – https://www.earthclinic.com/news/why-the-us-should-ban-fluoride-in-drinking-water-by-jason-uttley.html#jason. Please note that he still bathed in regular tap water, and he also pointed out that many supplements contain fluoride, so he avoided many of them.

      Please note that I recovered while not avoiding fluoride. I have since avoided fluoride, but I did fine while brushing my teeth with regular toothpaste and drinking tap water.

      Regards,
      Lisa

      • Agata February 11, 2017 at 1:16 pm Reply

        Hi Lisa
        The problem is that i don’t know if i have been floxed. I had surgery in general anasthesia and anasthetic was sevoflourane. I requested the medical data and there are no quinolones mentioned. But after surgery symptoms began. My mayor problem is that ligaments streches so easy and the joint are the unstable. Whic is causing a lot of pain. The condition has affected my whole body. Does anybody have the same symptom? There are poping joint which hurt. My connective tissue is like being melted?

        • L February 11, 2017 at 5:23 pm

          fluorine is different from fluoride. the former is a naturally occurring chemical. But often with surgery they give you some kind of prophylactic antibiotic. I would want to see exactly what was given aside from anesthesia.

          as for the popping—I had that a lot, in my knees and back especially. The knee with the most popping was later determined to have a torn meniscus. If you did get a fluoroquinolone, they are known to destroy all kinds of connective tissue

        • Agata February 13, 2017 at 7:30 am

          Hi
          Thank you much for replay, i still have one question to go, if anyone can replay.Two years ago, because of my problems i got dexametazone shot(again fluor), the next day i got my blood tested by another doctor and my iron levels were 38. Could this be a sign of toxicity? Thanks

        • Virginia February 13, 2017 at 5:40 pm

          If your ligaments stretch too easily and your joints are unstable, you might have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. You can google the symptoms. People with this disorder have a much worse reaction to Fluoroquinolones. There is no cure; one just has to manage the disorder with no over-exertion and avoiding FQs. I’m sorry for your struggles!

  3. charlottejacobs February 10, 2017 at 2:38 pm Reply

    Tea contains fluoride as do one third of medications as well as eye drops.

    You can have filters installed to remove fluoride from tap water but this is expensive.

    • L February 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm Reply

      also, the older the leaves the more the fluoride. “If you are interested in reducing exposure to fluoride and the harm that may come with it, choose white tea, the tea that is made from young leaves. This does not mean you can avoid fluoride in tea by drinking white tea, only that your fluoride exposure may be less than with other types of tea.” (like black or green) I think herbal teas are a safe bet, but have read that rioobos also contains fluoroide. also, you might want to add 2-3 brazil nuts a day to the diet, as they are high in selenium, which helps block the effects of fluoride.

  4. Kurt February 11, 2017 at 9:25 am Reply

    Hi All,

    I have hair loss on my lower left leg due to the neuropathy. Just wondering if anyone has experienced this and if the hair will eventually grow back?

    Also….does collagen repair itself over time? My skin looks aged and loose. Just curious if it will look like this forever now or does it improve?

    Thanks for any info!!

    • L February 11, 2017 at 11:07 am Reply

      my skin is aged significantly too mostly on my legs, but in large part I believe because I lost 30 pounds in just weeks post-cipro, and I was underweight then for months before I put back at least some of the weight. I also am middled aged so skin just does not pop back like it used to. Not sure how much is the rapid loss and how much is collagen damage. I have been taking collagen peptides in a near-daily smoothie, but have seen no difference as far as the skin.

      • Kurt February 13, 2017 at 6:39 pm Reply

        Thanks for the reply “L”! Happy healing…

        • Lisa February 15, 2017 at 7:26 pm

          Some people have reported that their hair and skin look better after taking collagen supplements that are supposed to support hair and skin health. Sorry for not knowing the specifics right now, but supplementing may help, so I thought I’d mention it.

        • Kurt February 24, 2017 at 3:49 pm

          Thanks for the reply, Lisa. I just bought some collagen powder, so I’ll give it a try and hope for the best. Take care….

  5. Tricia February 13, 2017 at 2:41 pm Reply

    Has anyone ever used local anaestesia lidocaine, and have been okay? Also. …is valium safe for floxies? ?

    • E March 6, 2017 at 7:46 pm Reply

      My dentist used lidocaine and I didnt notice any problems

  6. Sarah February 13, 2017 at 4:39 pm Reply

    I found your site trying to find out what’s wrong with me. I have what they think is a sinus infection and told me to take mucinex and Flonase. The next day I was worse and was prescribed levofloxacin 500mg daily and after ONE dose, I started with extreme anxiety, restlessness, chills, calf pain and tingling in my foot. I stopped taking the levofloxacin but was told to take some ibuprofen for the leg pain. I was seen in the ER the next day and they switched the antibiotic to a z-pack and said my leg would get better. Two days after that ONE dose, the anxiety has subsided some but my leg is so sore from my hip down, feels so weak, and my joints are popping. I still am having the chills pretty bad. I am hoping that this will start getting better and not worse as I am leaving on a trip in 6 days… and suggestions on how to correct the poison I put in my body would be greatly appreciated!!!

    • L February 13, 2017 at 5:06 pm Reply

      So sorry Sarah…yes injuries can occur from as little as one pill. First, do NOT take ibuprofin or any other NSAIDs or steroids. Up your magnesium intake, take a good probiotic, avoid GMOs and gluten (much of this is connected to the destruction of good microbiome in the gut) and avoid any nonorganic meats (possible antibiotics). If you scroll though Floxie Hope you will find a great many more suggestions. Oh, and avoid fluoridated water too.

      • Sarah February 14, 2017 at 3:44 pm Reply

        I can’t believe one pill has done this…. I just read the updates and ordered the magnesium and vitamin C. I have only taken Tylenol and at that only twice both 160mg. I take a prenatal vitamin already and that has calcium in it. I haven’t been able to eat in days so I am sure I am depleted nutritional already…. I was on Flonase and have since stopped that as well. I have told all the doctors and they just believe I am dehydrated but I am so scared I am damaged for life now!

        • Virginia February 15, 2017 at 5:14 pm

          Sarah, I know how scary it is to be floxed, but after just one pill, I doubt that you are damaged for life. After such a small exposure, you are very likely to fully recover. Time is your best ally. Be very gentle with your tendons and never push past pain. I also take lots of Magnesium and vitamin C and they may have helped accelerate healing.

    • Bob February 13, 2017 at 5:13 pm Reply

      I would start talking magnesium and calcium immediately. The calcium binds to the drug which has massively depleted your magnesium. I would also order some spray on magnesium oil right away. If you have any naturopaths or functional medicine doctors near you a nutritional IV would be helpful. It will take some time to heal. You will probably get some more advice soon. Try not to panic.

      • Sarah February 14, 2017 at 3:45 pm Reply

        I have calcium in my normal vitamin and shouldn’t have any of the drug left in my system as I only took one pill on Saturday…. I ordered the magnesium. I am so scared I am ruined…

        • Bob February 14, 2017 at 6:26 pm

          Try not to panic. Most people recover. It may not be as fast as you would like.

      • Sarah February 15, 2017 at 8:26 am Reply

        I got magnesium but I think I got the wrong stuff…. it is magnesium stearate?

  7. Mark S February 14, 2017 at 12:20 pm Reply

    Hi All,

    Been an on and off poster here for about two years. I think it’s important to bring up the issue of manganese and how it plays into what has happened to us. No, not magnesium. MANGANESE. This goes virtually ignored on all support groups that I’ve seen and I don’t understand why.

    1. Manganese chelates fluoroquinolones, especially ciprofloxacin! That means when you take a FQ drug, all the manganese in your body is going to bind with it, just like happens with magnesium and other trace minerals, and your body will dump it as waste.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23444035

    2. Manganese detoxifies your mitochondria.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2067987/

    3. Manganese is necessary for endocrine function.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=HTUDXnJwVwIC&pg=PA251&lpg=PA251&dq=manganese+polydipsia&source=bl&ots=Tz15XwMjap&sig=9eNXmR5C6qSKvLMdYCsrsxG6ryA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LOMcVZ7tC5G0oQTZxYCQAw&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=endocrine&f=false

    4. Manganese is also a necessary nutrient for wound healing… in other words, you can’t make collagen without it.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=vhni0jStgWYC&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=manganese+deficiency+collagen&source=bl&ots=vO-JbTGCMl&sig=SA9dOLOqmPcep_JiMyg-hA-FGfI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9MccVa7bDZetoQTQ64HwDA&ved=0CGkQ6AEwDQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Studies have also shown that Manganese inhibits the body’s absorption of these medications. Which is why they recommend avoiding taking them together. Studies also show that men have a harder time absorbing manganese in the first place so men may be more prone to connective tissue problems when taking a FQ.

    As far as I can see with all my research, it’s pretty simple. FQ’s disrupt the collagen matrix. We know this. But what specifically? Well, if your body doesn’t have any manganese left, how is it suppose to produce collagen for strong tendons? How is it suppose to produce cartilage and synovial fluid for properly functioning joints? How can it produce necessary digestive enzymes? It can’t. Even more interesting, it has been shown that magnesium supplements hurt the body’s ability to properly absorb manganese. This especially stood out to me because after I was floxed, and I started taking nothing but magnesium in large doses, my knees cartilage wore away and seemed like there was no lubricating fluid left in them. Was this because the Cipro took away my manganese and magnesium worsened the fact?

    The recommended amount of manganese daily is only a couple mg. However, I think us floxies are a special case and are dangerously deficient. I take 10-20 mgs a day along with co-factors such as Vitamin C and E, and a joint formula. I think I have been making strides and it could be our silver bullet in regards to why we have connective tissue problems.

    THIS IS JUST MY HYPOTHESIS. But I have spent much time looking into the matter and would urge other people experiencing the same symptoms to looks into manganese at your own discretion.

    • Agata February 14, 2017 at 3:13 pm Reply

      Thank you very much for explaining, this is important to know. Thanks

    • Lisa February 15, 2017 at 7:22 pm Reply

      Thank you so much, Mark! I know that a couple of floxie friends have noted that their levels of manganese have been really low. You may be onto something. I appreciate this hypothesis very much!

    • Sharon March 13, 2017 at 10:17 pm Reply

      Mark, I appreciate your comment and research so much. Thank you. I’m adding this to my routine and following the FQ Toxicity Solution protocol.

  8. A February 15, 2017 at 12:00 am Reply

    Has anyone else had intense/weird, vivid dreams while on Levaquin or other flox med? The kind where you wake up shaken up because of how intense the dream was? I definitely had them while on the med and I seem to still have them here and there- even quite a while after stopping them…

    • Lenny February 15, 2017 at 2:36 am Reply

      Same for me. I had a lot of horrific dreams short after stopping the medication and on and off since them. I realized that they are worse when i do detox treatments. This is logical to me, because detoxins mobilizes toxins which where ealier stored in the tissue. Its a art on its own to not only mobilize the toxins, but to rid of them too.

      • A February 15, 2017 at 9:26 am Reply

        What do you do as far as detoxing?

    • Lisa February 15, 2017 at 7:20 pm Reply

      I wonder if the mechanism for this is the same as the mechanism through which Lariam/mefloquine gives people horrible dreams. Mefloquine is a cousin drug to the fluoroquinolones.

      Personally, I have really vivid, though generally good, dreams. I always have though, so I don’t think that’s from getting floxed.

      • Michael Teeter March 15, 2017 at 10:05 pm Reply

        I had very strange i would say demonic dreams for years after floxing but now i managed to get rid of the bad dreams now I have lucid dreams very vivid and good dreams. I have some research on the dreams I will have to look it up and share it.

    • eileen kay March 9, 2017 at 11:45 am Reply

      I experienced this. I was told it is a common side effect of being floxed as well as due to various drugs. It all depends on the individual reaction and genetic makeup.

  9. Sarah February 15, 2017 at 9:05 am Reply

    What type of magnesium supplement is the best? I bought magnesium stearate but I think that is wrong as it does something to the T cells….

    • Lisa February 15, 2017 at 7:19 pm Reply

      The most commonly positively reviewed form of magnesium is magnesium “oil” which is actually magnesium chloride. You apply it to your skin and it soaks in from there. A lot of people also like magnesium threonate because it has better CNS penetration.

      • Sarah February 16, 2017 at 1:41 am Reply

        Thank you…. I am not sure if all that is going on with me is related to the one levofloxacin 500mg dose. Prior, I had a fatty liver and had no appetite for about a day. I am now 5 days post taking it, I feel horrible. My whole body hurts, I pop every time I move, my temperature drops into the 96 range, and my insomnia and anxiety are killing me. I have read on a lot of things to watch taking the magnesium if you have liver problems. Also I am scheduled for a Ct scan of my abdomen tomorrow with contrast. I am still not really eating or drinking and all of this is scaring me out of my mind

        • Lisa February 16, 2017 at 7:06 am

          Hi Sarah,

          I heard that taking dry lecithin (it comes as an oil and as a powder, apparently the powder is the way to go) is good for treating fatty liver. Please be careful with supplements since your liver is not operating optimally. Check with a doctor and/or naturopath before taking anything.

          Do you take hormonal birth control? If so, that can contribute to liver problems.

          I know that what you’re going through right now is Hell, but please try to believe that it will not stay like this forever. Pain of all types ebbs and flows.

          Being scared and anxious is reasonable, but do whatever you can to get those emotions under wraps. Stress is horrible for everything. Of course, you’re in a stressful situation, but still, try to breathe and/or meditate, or do whatever helps you to get through stress and anxiety.

          Hugs,
          Lisa

        • Bob February 16, 2017 at 5:07 pm

          When I was in floxed a glutathione IV helped me immensely. I also have a fatty liver. Glutathione helps your liver to detox. GABA @ 500 mg helps with sleep and anxiety. The effect of fq’s on the nervous system can be terrifying but you will get better.

        • Jason February 19, 2017 at 11:38 am

          Glutathione also damages hundreds of people. I posted around 4 such people’s stories 2 months ago or so, and then very shortly after that 3 people here posted how they were also damaged.

          Highly toxic people such as Floxies ROLL DICE taking Glutathione in ANY form, but especially IV. Roughly 30-40% of people WILL have a bad reaction, some extremely bad. It might not happen on the first dose, or even the 2nd, but it WILL happen, some get screwed right away others after 2nd or 3rd dose.

        • Jason February 19, 2017 at 11:40 am

          There are two more that I just seen post today, here is one:

          Recently I had about 3 glutathione ivs in a period of 6 weeks .. latest one being 2 weeks ago. Well two weeks ago all hell brook loose. This however was at the same time I tried a new herb for Lyme called a-bart. I originally thought I was herxing from the a-Bart and as I started to feel better after detoxing quite a bit I took some oral liposomal glutathione on Tuesday. Within an hour of taking it my symptoms came rushing back (lower back pain, jaw pain, palpations, sweating like crazy in my sleep, leg pain is horrendous) and have progressively gotten worse . I feel poisoned

        • Jason February 19, 2017 at 11:42 am

          Here was one of the replies to the above post:

          “The same happend to me. During naturopat treatmetn for Lyme she gave me 4 IV glutathione. I had reaction after 2nd day of first receiving. She told me it is imposlible that happend due glutathione. I quit a treatmetn because I felt very sick, toxic. After 5 weeks I have lots of new neuro symptoms. It is horror. I was so weak, nothing helps me.”

        • Jason February 19, 2017 at 11:47 am

          Again there are ways to boost Glutathione in the body which is MUCH better than trying to supplement it anyway, and much safer with no risk of damage.

          People also need to avoid ALA for the same reasons. It can be a helpful supplement when taken correctly and can do a LOT of damage when it isn’t

        • Jason February 19, 2017 at 11:53 am

          Oh just seen one more, this is just from TODAY folks. I could keep posting these forever:

          “Two days after a glutathione IV by my lyme doctor I couldn’t feel my feet and then a few months of a supplement w/ALA in it scrambled my brain. Treating all the damage this has done to adrenals, etc. still have significant neuro issues but am praying these will get better in time.”

        • eileen kay March 10, 2017 at 9:02 am

          Hi I have just read this on Facebook and found it quite interesting.
          Fibromyalgia is actually the damage to the mitochondria, the power cells that are our source of energy and healing. Adrenalin burns the mitochondria and damages them beyond repair. The mitochondria are responsible also for pain signals to the brain. The damaged mitochondria send spurious pain messages so the brain can for example register a severe pain in your leg when in fact there is no actual cause for the pain other than the mitochondria. The adrenalin that burns the mitochondria can come from stress, trauma, illness indeed even from physical activity such as running or dancing. My rheumatologist told me that many many profesional sport people get fibro in advanced years due to them having been so fit!! It’s sometimes called the athletes disease.

          Sounds good to me x

        • Barbara Arnold March 11, 2017 at 2:12 am

          Eileen,
          Your post makes perfect sense to me. I have always believed the secret lies in the mitochondria. The only thing I found that really helped was ozone autohemotherapy. It made me feel so much better and is supposed to help heal the mitochondria, but the burning came back, so what’s the answer ? Could be continued ozone who knows ? I can’t say all the suppliments that I took to support the mitochondria including mitpq helped in anyway. I have now decided to stop taking suppliments apart from probiotics for a time to see what happens, as I have had lots of burning stinging and no energy , even though I am trying acupunture at the moment, had 4 sessions, no change.

  10. Pat February 15, 2017 at 3:40 pm Reply

    I was looking for a little guidance and any advice is appreciated. I was put on Levaquin and Prednisone for a sinus infection two weeks ago. I ended a 5 day dose of Levaquin on Feb 3rd and had an outbreak of symptoms on Feb 8th. Looking back I had some early signs from the moment I started taking it but it was moving a heavy box that really brought it all to my attention. Burning muscle pain, joint pain, tingling in my fingers and numbness in my right hand, tightness in my calfs and legs and panic attacks. The pins and needles only lasted the first 36 hours and the burning pain has subsided but I still dont feel right. My muscles are tight and joints ache and pop and if I do any activity even carrying bags for an extended time my arms ache like I just got done working out. I had two questions.
    1. I am only a week out of when my symptoms first really started. I am beyond scared of what is to come next. I feel like some of it has lessened from that first day but everything I have read it seems like it will get worse before better. How long do these symptoms keep developing for? Is it ever in different scales from moderate to severe or do most hit a bottom point after some time?
    2. I can not find any hard list of supplements and dietary ideas to get started on only a collection of other peoples posts and ideas. I so far know that clean eating is key. Is that e-book that i found online worth the money? This is what I came up with so far any feedback is welcome.
    Magnesium 250mg chelated
    maganese
    whey protein
    tumeric
    creatine
    iron low dosage
    glucocismine
    Co enxyme Q10
    Colostrum
    NAC
    D3
    K2
    Vitamin C
    Calcium
    probiotic
    It seems like a lot to be taking at once. Do you guys still take a multi vitamin or just a regiment of supplements?
    Thanks again

    • Virginia February 15, 2017 at 4:54 pm Reply

      Pat, your symptoms may not get worse; everyone is different. Damage can last a year or more, but again, everyone is different and your symptoms might subside soon, and you may be past the worst of your damage. I know it’s scary, but you’re doing the right things: educating yourself and taking supplements. I’ve taken all but 3 on your list, and they might have helped. It’s hard to know if they helped, or just the passage of time. Be very gentle with your tendons and joints and don’t ever push past the pain. You might want to take more Magnesium. I take 500-600 a day. You know it’s too much if you get diarrhea.
      I take a multi vitamin and extra B as well.

    • Tristine February 15, 2017 at 7:06 pm Reply

      Pat – I’ve also started taking this supplement called ‘Protandim’ to help restore my body from the oxidative stress imposed from the floxing. This brand supplement has two types; 1 that helps with oxidative stress (which includes turmeric in the supplement) and the other is meant to help repair and strengthen mitochondrial DNA. I’m currently nursing my 4 month old and got floxed when she was 2 & 1/2 months, so the one for oxidative stress appears to be safe for me, but the other is questionable so I haven’t tried it yet. I’m not exactly certain if this has helped my recovery or the additional cocktail of supplements (magnesium, calcium, pre-natal vitamin, pro-biotic, omega 3’s, and reducing fluoride sources – already was eating a diet consisting mostly of organic/non GMO’s) I’ve been taking in addition to protandim, but it seems to have helped ease some of the joint pain/stiffness that I’d feel throughout the day and appears to be isolated to when I wake up in the morning and when weather systems come through.

      Since I’m choosing to continue nursing (aiming until she reaches a year), my options for supplementation are limited. However, after about a month of this combo, it has eased up quite a bit for me with the residual issues.

      I hope this info helps….

    • Lisa February 15, 2017 at 7:17 pm Reply

      Hi Pat,

      I’m so sorry that you’re experiencing fluoroquinolone toxicity, but I am glad that you found us! Both Virginia and Tristine’s suggestions are wonderful and greatly appreciated. It sounds like you are on a good track. Take a few deep breaths and tell yourself that you will be okay – you will be. Everyone’s timeline is different, and I can’t tell you exactly what yours will be, but I encourage you to try your best to believe that you will make it through this. Hope really is helpful.

      Here are my basic tips for how to approach this – https://floxiehope.com/2015/10/12/im-floxed-now-what/.

      One of the best things that I did early in my floxing was I took a class called Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction. If you can find a class on mindfulness and meditation like it, I highly recommend it. If not, there are tutorials on youtube.

      We’re here for you as well.

      Hugs,
      Lisa

    • L February 15, 2017 at 10:53 pm Reply

      Looks good Pat and SHAME on your doctor…he should have used a non-flq and definitely not prednisone at the same time. I would agree with Virginia about upping your mag…600-800—and if you avoid the citrate, diarrhea shouldn’t be a problem. Try mag threonate or orotate. Also it doesn’t get mentioned here much, but in the late Dr Cohen’s book he lists mag and vitamin E as his first two supplements to take.

      • Pat February 17, 2017 at 7:58 am Reply

        Thank you all for the supportive feedback. I have started a regiment of a multi vitamin, vitamin c, magnesium citrate (can’t find others in a store have to order it) and a strong probiotic. I tried taking Advil and it aggravated my calves and muscles to no end. Then I read that it has that effect on some people. I was wondering if you guys spread the magnesium dose through out the day or take it all at once. I started slow with 375 citrate and 100 oxide in the multi vitamin and haven’t had stomach issues. I was thinking of upping the citrate to 500 but didn’t know if I should stagger taking the pills. Also has anyone had any success with Salmon oil with omega 3s and EPA & DHA? Thanks again.

        • L February 17, 2017 at 10:19 am

          HI Pat, I was taking the mag 3 times a day. Also I think it is important to have the omega 3 EPA, whether you are floxed or not. I had some heart issues from the cipro, but the omega 3s are also supposed to help with joint pain and inflammation which seems to affect most floxies

        • Pat February 17, 2017 at 11:10 am

          Thanks for the feedback. Just got done at neurologist. He wants to rule out anything else to be sure it’s a levaquin reaction. Going for blood work, xrays, MRIs, EMG testing and ultra sounds. He said since you are on no medications and have no history of any problems it very well may be. At least he was open to the idea. Not sure what all this testing will show.

        • L February 17, 2017 at 11:39 am

          This is what happens. We are sent from doctor to doctor to doctor, for tests and more tests because they refuse to believe it could possibly be the FLQs. I finally stopped seeing allopaths, and started turning things around with an ND. Btw, most tests will come back negative because as Dr Todd Plumb states, the injuries are functional, not structural. Dr Jay Cohen, in his book also says that more nerve tests (especially the large ones) will come back negative. I personally would avoid MRIs—you don’t need radiation on top of everything else. Ultra sound is good. But at some point I am guessing you will get doctor/test fatigue.

        • Lisa February 17, 2017 at 12:17 pm

          A doctor who is open to the idea of fluoroquinolone toxicity is a God-send. I think that getting your thyroid, parathyroid, and hormone levels tested is a good idea. I think that FQs cause endocrine problems in many people. A messed up thyroid (either hyper or hypo) can make you feel like death. Here is a great article about the connections between fluoroquinolones and thyroid dysfunction. https://www.hormonesmatter.com/fluoroquinolone-antibiotics-thyroid-problems-connection/

        • Virginia February 17, 2017 at 2:29 pm

          it’s best to stagger the Magnesium doses. I divide mine throughout the day (500-600 mg a day)

    • Doug April 10, 2017 at 10:59 am Reply

      Pat, very interested in your story. Are you still experiencing any issues and how are the supplements helping?

  11. Michael Teeter February 17, 2017 at 12:38 pm Reply

    Hello everyone,
    I wish all of you a speedy recovery and future good health. It has been 5 years since I was Floxed. Remember take one day at a time and think everyday is a good day. Don’t focus on the past focus on the positive and avoid the negative. I had to learn to let my anger go. I have learned humility and patience. I really sympathize with other people now.
    I have been disabled for awhile but I do notice small victories that make me happy.
    Lisa as you are aware I was diagnosed with Adult Autoimmune Enteropathy about 2 years ago. I have been seeing a specialist at the Cleveland Clinic. They feel that the fluoroquinolones brought out the autoimmune response.
    I go to doctors in Grand Rapids, and Lansing. I have a great ND who has helped me quite a but. I have met many Fellow Floxies these last few years. I found a great Chinese acupuncturist who I love. My physical therapist is amazing. I run my rife machine twice a week. I keep a food journal. I take IV therapy and I will be trying CBD oil under a doctors supervision.
    Unfortunately I am still on the steroids. My hope is that the CBD oil will help me come off them. They have had me on all kinds of meds since my Cipro Poisoning none have helped. Plus I do not trust big Pharma.
    I will be seeing a few specialist in the near future at Age Management Clinic in Grand Rapids, MI then a doctor in Greenville, MI. I am also going to the University of Michigan to have a GI specialist so I can get help a little closer to home. I still will be seeing my GI doc at the Cleveland Clinic as well.
    I am very thankful to all the Natural paths that have helped me, and I am glad to have met people like all of you.
    last month I was only 114 lbs. I suffer from malabsorption and dehydration quite a lot.
    My levels drop all the time. I think that Cipro messed with the collagen in my intestines and left my tendons alone. I am now 136lbs. I can walk with my cane and I do get to go fishing once in awhile.
    Well I wish you all the best and if there is anything I can do to help anyone. Please ask.
    Sincerely Yours,
    Michael.

    • Bob February 17, 2017 at 3:08 pm Reply

      Michael where do you live?

    • Kurt February 17, 2017 at 8:52 pm Reply

      Great post Michael. Love the positivity. Wishing you a great 2017 and beyond…

    • Courtney March 9, 2017 at 6:34 pm Reply

      Hi Michael, I recently moved back to grand rapids Michigan. I was floxed quite a while ago and nearly had kidney failure. Complicated story. In the other states I lived in (ca) it was easy to find alternative treatments to autoimmune problems. I am struggling in this area. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks.

      • Shirley FischerTrimble March 10, 2017 at 6:37 am Reply

        Hi I’m struggling in MI also, I’m up from being FL. I don’t find Drs. That seem to understand.My skin is also really wrinkled very loose saggy like a bone covered W/ skin dry, cracked bruises etc. But I’m in mid60s so was bad sorta. The cold weather and no sunshine.They’ve got me on prednisone have, crohns also w/ hypertension since very young age..all my symptoms worse here no sun, switched up meds. , all seem increase my pain and struggles.Looking for naturalist also an MD. Hard finding those.my area near Flint, MI. nurses at one hosp. Admit said go south Ann Arbor MI. I have real bad vision problems to no support group . I’m sure hoping you’ll find help. I’m also very forgetful..sry this post so scattered it’s me now I first had Leviquin Cipro way back in 2005 didn’t get this bad until 2014 wheelchair bound all that then made good progress.way backset by switching Dr’s I’m feeling meds given again I didn’t know in time. Came for Terminal Dear Brother. He passed in summer last. I’m unable get back FL. Dr’s yet.. please know I’m praying we all can and do recover to a functional most day level asap. And having support groups like these are so great. Ms.Shirl.

        • Bob March 10, 2017 at 9:27 pm

          You could try Dr. Wycoff in Lansing.

        • Courtney March 13, 2017 at 8:31 pm

          Thanks Bob.

  12. moldandlymeillness February 17, 2017 at 8:11 pm Reply

    Hi I was wondering if you could tell me why ibuprofen triggers the toxic reaction with floroquinolones? I had the same thing happen to me when I had a toxic reaction to a steroid. Three weeks later I took ibuprofen mixed with dmso and it kicked up all the steroid symptoms majorly and i realized it was still in my body. DMSO greatly potentiates medications its mixed with. That was seven months ago and im still struggling greatly. Any info would be appreciated as to why that may have happened. The next time I tried to take ibuprofen after that I could tell it was extremely toxic to me after that. Thank you

    • SM February 18, 2017 at 5:45 pm Reply

      Your message was a bit confusing to me- that’s a me thing, not a you thing. But to answer the question of FQs and ibuprofen, yes. Ibuprofen can absolutely trigger FQ reactions. Plenty of floxies are “fine” with FQs, take ibuprofen weeks later and BOOM. Many floxies, including myself, would never touch ibuprofen or steroids.

  13. SM February 18, 2017 at 4:16 pm Reply

    Someone a while back mentioned a mag protocol from a FB Group. I’ve since joined the group and read a lot. It’s a huge group, like 30,000+ people I believe. Anyway, the protocol gave me lots of insight into what I had been doing for years. As a 180 pound male, the idea of taking 500-600 mg of magnesium daily (which I’ve done for almost two years) is almost laughable based on that group. B6 and boron are needed cofactors- I wasn’t taking them. And their recommendation is 5 mg of mag per pound of body weight as a MAINTENANCE dose. That would be 900 mg! If that protocol is correct, my 500 mg without cofactors has been way too wimpy. Not even close. I’m not suggesting anyone do this. Do your own research please. But if that 5 mg/pound dosage is correct, and we truly are deficient in mag, it’s no wonder many don’t bounce back. I’m not sure if mag will help me, but if I need it, 500 mg isn’t going to cut it. Especially without the necessary cofactors!

    • charlottejacobs February 19, 2017 at 7:11 am Reply

      Hi Have you got a link to the forum please?

      • SM February 19, 2017 at 8:48 am Reply

        It’s called the Magnesium Advocacy Group. I’m not trying to advertise here- just passing on information. There are other floxies on there. I searched flox and Cipro and several threads appeared. Interesting information at the very least.

        • SM February 19, 2017 at 1:05 pm

          Sorry. Not sure how to link that. There are several groups called Magesium Advocacy Group on FB? When I search on FB I get one group called that. It has 84,000 members.

  14. Pat February 19, 2017 at 8:14 pm Reply

    Does anyone have any advice for a good detox protocol to follow. I am only 16 days from finishing the does of levaquin and have been taking Magnesium, Vitamin E, Vitamin C, a probiotic and a multi vitamin. I had read about people saying detox was the first step and wanted to know where to begin. Thanks again.

    • Stephanie February 19, 2017 at 8:27 pm Reply

      I recommend you going to a naturopath or a homeopathic Dr to get a monitored detox. I’m severely floxed and have wonderful detox Dr at my naturopath who monitors it all and she ensures that I’m okay and has explained to me that it’s very easy to do damage to yourself so if you have a professional help you they can help monitor you and set up a plan that is good for you. There is no one way to go about any of this so a plan that is made just for you is my suggestion

    • L February 19, 2017 at 8:31 pm Reply

      You might want to pick up something like flor-essence

  15. Katie Kay February 20, 2017 at 10:06 am Reply

    I was given Cipro as a precautionary antibiotic after surgery (worries about infection). 500mg twice a day for 10 days. The doctor nor the pharmacist gave me any info on tendon issues. I had to look it up and connect the dots. I’m now 2 months out. Sometimes I have terrible achilles pain. Wearing 2 cam walker boots most places as my ankles/legs feel dreadfully weak. (Thankfully was able to go to an orthopedic doctor and tell them it was absolutely the Cipro. She’d seen this before and didn’t argue, so I didn’t run into the gamut of tests, etc and questions…we knew from the get-go what we were dealing with)

    My question is…what would you suggest for pain? My new “norm” is a pain level 2-3 with it flaring badly at times (especially if I try and do too much). The doctor gave me some Tramadol (50mg) which I take once a day, but it doesn’t help with the bad times. Using ice on my ankles/legs definitely helps, but I wonder how people deal with the pain management. Anyone have any thoughts?

    • charlottejacobs February 20, 2017 at 2:43 pm Reply

      Kay what did the orthopaedic dr say about any possible remedies or help with mobilising? IDS

      • Katie Kay February 20, 2017 at 2:55 pm Reply

        Well? I was given 2 of the cam walker boots, and was told the damage may be permanent. I have another appt in a couple weeks. That’s about all she shared with me at the initial visit. I figure I’m in for a long term of adjusting and/or working towards getting better than I am now. I wondered what other folks did for pain management, though, in this long long middle of the road time when it can flare dreadfully bad, but I know that good days are just that..a day..and not me actually well (at least not yet!)

        • ChristmasCarla March 3, 2017 at 4:39 pm

          Folks, I had dramatic and rapid healing of my feet after I began juicing fresh cannabis shade leaves, using an auger-type electric wheatgrass juicer, and drinking an ounce or so of the juice twice a day, diluted with water because of the strong flavor. It’s now been a year since I began, and my foot is near to normal. Prior to that discovery, I had worked on my foot hours each day, using scores of different treatments to no avail, for a year and a half as the condition worsened. The juice, along with my other health regimens, is causing a gradual but consistent healing of my condition. Anyone who has access to fresh organic cannabis shade leaves, please give this a try. I wish it were available to all.

        • L March 3, 2017 at 5:01 pm

          what exactly were the problems with your feet? did you have any numbness?

        • ChristmasCarla March 3, 2017 at 5:16 pm

          Along with neuropathy and terrible pain, my feet were swollen, bright red hot and the skin was sluffing off. I’ve posted pics on the FaceBook page and will include some when I write up my story (soon). I posted pics because most of the awful symptoms we suffer are not visible, and that foot was SO ugly it got people’s attention so I could warn them about FQs. My left foot was so sore that I could not rest it on the bed, nor put any covers over it, and it was so hot it didn’t need covers. At times I would have to get up at night to run cold water on it for a little relief. Btw, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, a condition in which the skin literally dies, is listed in the pharmaceutical handout as one of the possible side effects of FQs.

        • L March 3, 2017 at 5:25 pm

          i just have numbness…obviously nerve damage so not sure it would help with that…also nervous about all the reports I have read about pesticides used on medical marijuana

        • ChristmasCarla March 3, 2017 at 5:46 pm

          Best to find a grower you know is conscientious and grows organically. Most growers toss shade leaves into the compost, since they aren’t yet commercially demanded, so they should be glad to sell them cheap. If you can’t get them fresh the day they are plucked, they can be stored in a sealed plastic bag in the fridge for a few days. The shade leaves contain many healing cannabinoids and terpenes and the juice doesn’t usually get you high at all. I foresee a day when we have fresh cannabis juice bars like for wheatgrass, as it has such amazing healing properties.

        • Bob March 3, 2017 at 6:08 pm

          Don’t you get high from drinking the juice?

        • ChristmasCarla March 12, 2017 at 5:22 pm

          That’s a variable, Bob. A lot depends on which leaves I am juicing and it definitely depends on amount taken. If the leaves are all shade leaves with none of the smaller trim leaves, a small dose (an ounce or two) does not get me high. If I juice the close trim leaves along with the shade leaves, that same dose will get me high for a while. I’ve been experimenting with drying the leaf residue and powdering it so it keeps longer. If I use that in cooking, it definitely gets me high, as the THC is activated by the heat. I tried some of the powder in a smoothie, but I used too large a dose (a teaspoonful) and got really high. I’ve been doing just the shade leaf juice, as I don’t particularly like the unpredictability of the powder. I will add, however, that I intend to continue taking the juice, as it is doing so much good in healing me.

        • ChristmasCarla March 3, 2017 at 5:48 pm

          Btw, my neuropathy has decreased as well as the skin healing and the swelling diminishing.

        • Jeremy March 13, 2017 at 1:15 am

          ChristmasCarla: wouldn’t be the same effect if someone would use CBD 5% oil? Here in Germany I can buy high quality CBD extract oil (without active THC). Every research confirms that CBD is the most important immune system booster from cannabis. Are we talking about the sam influence on our bodies? What do yoiu think?

        • ChristmasCarla March 16, 2017 at 8:10 am

          Jeremy, I was already taking cannabis oil and applying it topically, although it wasn’t specifically CBD oil, and it helped with the relief of pain and anxiety, but it wasn’t healing my foot. It was only when I tried juicing the shade leaves that my foot began to heal. I’m not sure why that was different, other than that it wasn’t heated at all. Taking CBD oil would be helpful anyway, for many reasons, and I hope it helps you.

  16. charlottejacobs February 21, 2017 at 10:58 am Reply

    Has anyone on here suffered insomnia?

  17. Lisa February 21, 2017 at 4:45 pm Reply

    Here’s a 15% off coupon for uBiome microbiome sequencing – http://ubiome.refr.cc/LNV6NSL. I thought it was interesting – though it turns out that my microbial diversity stinks, both literally and figuratively. I’m in the 11th percentile for microbial diversity. :/

    • Jeremy March 11, 2017 at 3:38 pm Reply

      Dear Lisa, what are the best steps to improve the issue, in your opinion? We can learn about our bacteria and what then? Is there something else from eating prebiotics and probiotics? Best.

  18. Rhonda February 22, 2017 at 4:49 pm Reply

    Does anybody else still have occasional muscle jerks from the cipro? I’m about 10 months post flox and I still get the muscle jerks, brain fog and floaters in my eyes and a few other things.

  19. Maggie February 22, 2017 at 6:02 pm Reply

    Has anyone still improved after 4 years? It will be four years for me this summer. I still have so many issues (cracking, popping, pain all over). I am losing hope.

    • Debs February 23, 2017 at 5:18 am Reply

      Yes Maggie .

      it actually took me 12 years to FEEL fully recovered after my first floxing but reach it EVENTUALLY i did. I also reached what FELT like around 80% recovery after another subsequent floxing.

      Each persons floxing timeline of symptoms appearing / deterioration / stabilisation / improvement / potentially reaching a place where they may FEEL recovered is completely unique to them, same as we are are all unique into how we came into this in respect to our biology, genetics, health wise etc.

      In my experience of being around a while this is what I see: Although of course it cannot be denied that some people do suffer long lasting potentially permanent injuries, A LARGE majority of floxies DO EVENTUALLY recover enough to move on with their lives, some of us DO FEEL fully recovered, others ( imho the largest group of recovered floxies ) are able to move on as above, albeit with various lingering issues, often these are related to degrees of exercise intolerance & / or various aches / pains they did not have before they were hit . what a person considers recovery of course means different things to different people.

      I still improved a hell of a lot even after my 7th floxing from my worst, EVENTUALLY . Although my life is not the same as it was ( notably nobody visibly/ noticeably floxed or not ( yet ) floxed actually gets out of taking a FQ at a DNA mitochondrial level completely unscathed ), I still DO have a decent life, I just have a different life now, a new normal for me. I now live my life in the slow lane, appreciating every waking moment.

      I actually learned a hell of a lot from my various floxing experiences, & one of the greatest things, was I realised that the little things in life are actually the BIG things .
      So now I make the most of & really enjoy the little things in my life, such as my family, my friends, my animals, natures beauty etc. SO many people in this world of ours, they rush through their lives accumulating things & appreciating nothing of real value, they do not appreciate ‘ the little things’, & they do not realise this truth until its much too late, that’s if they ever do.

      I also realised this : that ‘ I ‘ am not my body, & they can NEVER no matter how hard they try flox my ‘ I ‘, my soul .

      • Maggie February 23, 2017 at 4:22 pm Reply

        Thank you Debs. I am very grateful that you shared your experience with me. I am so sorry that you went through so many times of floxing.

        My musculoskeletal issues from being floxed are not improving at all, after almost four years. I am wondering if I should stop seeking treatments

      • ChristmasCarla March 3, 2017 at 4:56 pm Reply

        You are an angel, Debs. Thanks for this lucid explanation and encouragement.

    • SM February 23, 2017 at 11:30 am Reply

      Maggie,
      You and I are floxie twins! I was also floxed in the summer of 2013. Hard to believe it’s still going. I wake up every day and still can’t believe it.

      • Maggie February 23, 2017 at 4:27 pm Reply

        SM, I know. I hope we all see some miracles soon!

      • Bob February 23, 2017 at 8:26 pm Reply

        Also floxed in June 2013. Worse than ever. I think I may also have Lyme. Would like to do the BX protocol if I could scrounge up $17,000

        • L February 23, 2017 at 8:43 pm

          Bob the naturopath I saw, who gave me over 60 IVs (which made all the difference to me)—half his patients have Lyme. You might want to find a naturopathic or integrative Lyme specialist who does IVs…

    • ChristmasCarla March 3, 2017 at 4:54 pm Reply

      Maggie, I’m at four years, two months and am finally seeing steady progress in healing. It’s excruciatingly slow, but consistent. I figure it may take a total of seven years, since that is how long it takes your body to replace each cell, and it is cell damage that the FQs do.. I think it’s important to keep putting the right foods and supplements into the body so the replaced cells are healthy. I plan to write up my healing story to post here soon.

      • Maggie March 3, 2017 at 6:49 pm Reply

        Thank you Christmas Carla! I am happy for you! Please do post your healing story here. Thank you!

        Do you mind if I ask which antibiotic you took and how much you took? Thank you!

        • ChristmasCarla March 12, 2017 at 5:30 pm

          Levaquin, 750 mg a day for ten days. I may have had an earlier exposure, but need to do more research into my medical record. Thanks for the encouragement, and I will get to my healing story shortly.

  20. James Stamboni February 23, 2017 at 8:34 am Reply

    Does anyone have experience with prolozone treatments? I have an injury/ weakness in my left patella that hasn’t improved in over a month of rest. Has anyone had negative side effects from prolozone injections?

    • L February 24, 2017 at 10:54 am Reply

      james, didn’t see there was a reply. please see my post above. or I will try to find it and repost on your link.

  21. Maggie February 23, 2017 at 4:29 pm Reply

    I did six rounds of prolozone. No side effects, but didn’t help much either.

    • L February 24, 2017 at 10:53 am Reply

      I had prolozone injections in both knees (torn meniscus) several months ago. So far so good. No pain. Will have to wait to see if they heal. That’s what prolozone does—helps the body repair itself. A friend’s father had prolozone injections in both knees and both hips and said it changed his life. I think it takes 6 months or more to see if it makes a difference

  22. L February 24, 2017 at 11:00 am Reply

    Hi all. I wanted to post something that might be of help to those of you in the Los Angeles area. As you know, if you took a generic, you can’t (at this point in time) sue the manufacturer. (There are a few firms working on that, but even if it comes to fruition it could be years down the road.) If you are interested in seeking a medical malpractice case (and please be aware you only have one year, from the time you became aware your injury was related to the Cipro or Levaquin, etc) I am going to suggest a firm I spoke with recently. Genuinely good, caring guys with great reviews. http://www.gansenlawgroup.com/

  23. ptnbrm February 25, 2017 at 11:30 am Reply

    hello

  24. ptnbrm February 25, 2017 at 11:37 am Reply

    Hey guys. I wanted to know has actually taken the fluoroquinolone toxicity solution. I wonder if people have actually fully recovered and did they have to carry on following the regime once their body fully recovered. At this point I just don’t want to believ in “hope” until i hear results from people that have tried it.

    I hope people who have been damaged by this poision and finding help and do not give up.
    My email is p.tariq90@hotmail.co.uk. I am open to talking about my experience and listening to others. Let’s not be isolated in our problems.

    I took 19 pills of Ciproflaxacin. It was 500mg twice a day for 14 days. I decided to stop on the 10th day. I’m just frustrated that I took it for that long.

    • Lisa February 25, 2017 at 4:01 pm Reply

      Here are some thoughts on the ebook – https://floxiehope.com/2014/11/25/the-fluoroquinolone-toxicity-solution-ebook/. If you are looking for a sure-fire cure, unfortunately, there isn’t one. The ebook is a good supplement guide though, and it has been part of (but not the complete) a recovery journey for a lot of (but not all) people.

      • Barbara Arnold February 26, 2017 at 4:22 am Reply

        Lisa,
        I feel the title of the book is misleading and raises false hope. As far as I can tell at this point there is “no” solution. However it’s a good guide of whats happened to you after taking a fluroquinolone, and a good guide on what suppliments to take and what diet can help. If it was a solution we would all be cured now. Having said all that “people” do recover and you are a prime example. We are all different, one size does not fit all, but to be positive and “believe” you will recover goes a long way in helping one’s recovery. Healing to you all xxx

        • ptnbrm February 26, 2017 at 8:11 am

          Hello Barbara i would definately suggest taking pumpkin seed oil capsules. They have really helped with my shoulder tendons. The things is i noticed a difference after taking them for a few days and now my body is feeling better. It takes a little while though for your body to be accustomed to it.

          Im sure everyone is taking a range of different supplements but i wonder which supplements really promotes change in their pain. Cocounut oil is great too. Thr things is i will actually probably carry on taking these supplements even if i do recover because i want my body to be as strong as possible.

          I want to get out of the habit of eating foods which look and taste good but instead those that are going to make you feel great and boost your system properly.

        • Lisa February 26, 2017 at 8:29 am

          I agree, Barbara. I’ll edit my comment so that it says that the ebook is part of some people’s recovery journey, not the “solution.”

    • Barbara Arnold February 26, 2017 at 10:54 pm Reply

      Ptnbrm,
      Thanks for the tip. Glad you found something that helps you. I will look into it

  25. Peter February 25, 2017 at 10:38 pm Reply

    Hey, not sure if you guys remember me as it’s been awhile since i last posted. I was floxed in 2012 and had nonstop horrible symptoms. Well some good and bad news. I think, not 100%, but i think my symptoms have improved dramatically finally. I still have ankle issues, but i haven’t griped about anumber of things this medicine caused in a good while. To give everyone some hope. It takes a ton of time….a ton…almost 5 years now.

    The bad news, since one of my biggest symptoms was burning of the face, I’m not sure if that’s back or is from the car accident i was just in. I was doing fairly well from the floxie damage, but was in a car accident a few months ago and then a really bad one a week ago while i was still recovering from the first. There is significant damage and surgery is on the table…neck.

    So my two cents for the day, i think there’s hope even though i never believed it with this medicine and watch out for bad motorists because there are things that suck just as bad as this medicine. Something i never believed to be the case before.

    I wish everyone the best and the people on here really are kind and understanding. I’ll try to stop in and give another update once i heal up more and can accurately judge the rest of my issues.

    • Peter February 25, 2017 at 10:41 pm Reply

      I guess i should mention i still have very serious eye issues from the medicine and still believe it aged me horribly in numerous ways, but a lot of the more ruin your day symptoms seemed to have calmed down.

      • lenny February 26, 2017 at 6:13 am Reply

        Hi Peter,

        congrats on your recovery steps. It must feel great after years of horror and real nightmare. Thank you for making us hope! It helps a lot. Which symptoms did you have and which of that subsided?

      • Maggie February 28, 2017 at 3:30 pm Reply

        Congratulation, Peter, for your improvement! Thank you for letting us know. We need to hear this!

    • joanneg February 26, 2017 at 12:15 am Reply

      Hi Peter,

      I certainly do remember you, and I’m sooo happy to hear you’re doing better 🙂
      And thanks for letting us know.

    • Lisa February 26, 2017 at 8:49 am Reply

      I’m so glad that you have improved, Peter! I’m sorry to hear about the car accident though. :/ Thank you so much for commenting, and for letting us know of the progress you have made! I hope that your recovery progress continues! Please keep in touch.

      Hugs,
      Lisa

    • ptnbrm February 26, 2017 at 10:31 am Reply

      I think its nice of you stop by even though your nearly recovered. I dont think you can put a time frame on this. You need to be willing to be consistent in making new lifestyle choices and realise if you have any chance from recovering from this you have to stick with it. I dont know if i believe in a CURE and i am willing to try anything to get better.

      I would to inform people whats working for me:

      – Pumpkin seed oil capsules (1-3) daily

      – Coconut oil which i apply on my skin especially my shoulder tendons. I ingest 2-3 teaspoons of the coconut oil daily

      – Cod liver capsules (once daily)

      I have heard about Chia seeds which are supposed to be full of protein and promote strength.

  26. Lisa February 26, 2017 at 8:06 am Reply

    The founder of http://www.snowdropherbals.com/ posted this on facebook. I know that a lot of people have had problems with high B6, and I have had adrenal problems, and I thought it would be interesting to many of you.

    “Food for the mind AND adrenals : There are more symptoms that are associated with this phenomenon such as calcium oxalate kidney stones, calcified nodules found in the thyroid gland and in other soft tissue organs and glands.
    Many elevated B6 sufferers also experience thyroid hormonal issues, as well as heart murmur type arrhythmias, and para-thyroid hormone deficiency.
    It is little known outside biochemistry that all vitamins are produced by various organisms sometimes also known as the flora of the digestive tract. The vitamins that your body needs are “harvested” or absorbed from your small intestine where these organisms live and produce various vitamins as part of their metabolism.
    Under normal balanced conditions all is well, and the correct ratio of “vitamins” are produced in a bioavailable form that your bodies readily absorb and use. It is well known that the body does not prefer, but will reluctantly utilize “synthetically” or lab made vitamins when the real vitamin is not available. All B vitamins are “naturally” produced or secreted by the “B” bacteria within the intestinal tract. The “B” bacteria are highly susceptible to acid, and particularly “lactic acid” that is produced by the common pro-biotic LAB bacteria that many consume in excess. The LAB or lactic acid bacteria produce lactic acid as a defense mechanism to kill off other bacteria as a way to secure more food for themselves, this results in “acidosis” of the naturally more alkaline intestines, and large bowl, and colon where the pH level should be in the range of 7.6-8.0. So, you may be asking now “If the B bacteria are killed off, where is the excess B6 coming from?” Great question! Let’s look at this, because herein is the shocking revelation.
    E. Coli, and A. Niger, are organisms that naturally do not produce B6 or Oxalic acid, however, we are not talking about “natural” we are going to talk about the mutated strains of E. Coli, the mutant 0157:H7 strain.
    This mutated strain of E. Coli produces extreme amounts of B6, and oxalic acid. It is also the strain that is most often found to be the leading cause of kidney and adrenal failure, or exhaustion.
    This particular issue is very difficult to diagnose as it will not present in blood test, or blood cultures. It also will not show up in stool samples when labs look for the anti-bodies or shinga type toxins in the stools. The Urine must be cultured to find it. The bladder may also need to be biopsied. These also are the same organisms that cause disease in the lungs, and can only be identified by MRI or ultrascan that is operated by a trained tech who knows what to look for.
    The elevated B6 by this organism directly affects the nervous system. The Oxalic acid binds to calcium and causes the calcium to precipitate out of solution and deposit into soft tissues such as the breast, thyroid, and kidney’s. The term would be Calcium Oxalate stones.”

  27. Brian February 26, 2017 at 11:02 am Reply

    Hi,

    I’m new to this site and am looking for some guidance. I’m an active 47 year old male and earlier this week I believe I was “floxed”. On Tuesday I went to urgent care because of a minor injury to my eye. The doctor at urgent care called it an “abrasion” and didn’t seem to concerned with it. He prescribed some antibiotic eye drops (Genatmicin) and a seven day prescription on Cipro 2×500/mg day. I don’t believe I’ve taken Cipro previously as an antibiotic.

    Normally I am very vigilant about understanding the risks of the meds I’m taking but since they were “antibiotics” I didn’t give it a second thought. That was a huge mistake.

    When my wife and I filled the prescription I was calling an Opthalmologist to make an appointment as the urgent care doctor recommended a followup later in the week. I didn’t speak with the pharmacist about the Cipro and my wife paid for it (I wasn’t at the counter). Second big mistake.

    I started taking the Cipro that day and continued for two days – a total of five pills. On Thursday my anxiety went through the roof. I noticed on the packaging that the Cipro said “drink plenty of water” which I hadn’t really been doing up to that point. So I jumped on the web and learned the real problems with this poison. I immediately threw the rest of the pills away.

    So far I’m having some minor neuropathy in my left hand and some slight pain in both achilles tendons. I’m not sleeping well at all maybe about 4 – 5 hours; nightmares and night sweats. I’m still having some serious anxiety and emotional problems dealing with this. To be honest I’m very scared. Over the last five years I’ve been an active runner, probably about 15 miles / week on average. It’s a sport that I enjoy very much and I’m scared that my body may be permanently damaged because of this drug.

    My wife isn’t providing very much support, unfortunately. For the purposes of full disclosure I have a history of anxiety and depression, specifically with concerns over my health. I was able to move past those issues by introducing a regimen of exercise and healthy habits (quit smoking, eating organic, etc) five years ago.

    After reading much of the information this site I have begun taking 500mg magnesium and 500 UI Vitamin D, 400mg Calcium.

    From reading the stories of recovery on this site, I’m not sure what to expect now.

    • L February 26, 2017 at 11:22 am Reply

      So sorry Brian. Yes it sounds like you have been floxed. I would even up the magnesium (and if you avoid the citrate, there shouldn’t be diaharrea problems.) I would also avoid all fluoride, like from drinking water. Avoid GMOs and gluten. Especially gluten. It may sound odd to you but so many seemingly disconnected issues are linked to gut damage. You might also add in vitamin E. Because of the anxiety (likely from damaged gaba receptors) I would quick coffee for the time being, if you drink that. Eat a very whole food, organic diet as much as you can. Make sure any meats especially are organic because they can have antibiotics in them otherwise. Go easy on exercising for now. This is not the time to be stressing tendons and other connective tissues.

      Most of us will tell you that going to an allopathic (western med) MD will be fruitless unless you are lucky enough to find the small percentage that is aware of fluoroquinolone toxicity. Bottom line is, they have no non-pharmaceutical treatments for you anyhow. I would find a good naturopath or an integrative doctor that does IVs. They were my saving grace and I was very badly floxed.

      What state do you live in? Some states require that if you get a new prescription, the pharmacist must initiate a consultation, so they may have violated a law depending on where you live. As far as whether or not you had taken it in the past, it really doesn’t matter. Turns out I had taken a fluoroquinolone before with no problems, and this time is just caused so much damage. IT is thought that the damage is cumulative, and would affect just about anyone at some point, but our threshholds are all different.

      There is a good book written by a doctor who researched these drugs (and testified before congress, to no avail.) It gives some very good information, and the title says it all. “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe: The Worst MEdication Disaster in US History” by Dr Jay Cohen. You can buy it online. And if you post the general area of where you live, perhaps someone on this site can refer you to an ND or integrative doctor that has helped them. I know this is easier said than done, but try not to freak out. IT is good you are aware of this so early one. The insomnia and anxiety are very real, but for most it does pass. I was very very badly floxed, and I am 90-some % better.

      • Brian February 26, 2017 at 11:52 am Reply

        Hi L,

        Thanks for your reply! In regards to the pharmacist, I live in Southern California. I’m not sure what the laws are here about pharmacists.

        How much magnesium is OK at this point do you think?

        I will also look into the book you have mentioned.

        How long did it take you to be 90%-ish better?

        • L February 26, 2017 at 12:22 pm

          I am in California. Yes, when a new drug or one that has changed in dosage, strength or directions is prescribed, the consultation MUST be offered by the pharmacist. Those little electronic box signatures are not compliant with the law, nor are one of the tech staff asking if you want a consultation. It must come from the pharmacist. I am not a lawyer so I can not advise you but I will tell you that the statute of limitations for filing a suit in CA are one year from the time you discovered you were injured by the drug.

          What part of Southern California? I have never been to this clinic (and I think it can be pricey) but you might want to look into the Whittaker Wellness Center. (Newport Beach.) They are integrative so not sure, but visits may be covered by insurance, if they accept it. Usually the therapies are not, but again, for me it is what started to turn my life back around. They offer IVs, hyperbaric, infrared sauna, acupuncture…all helpful therapies.

          Where ever you go, I would take copies of the “dear doctor” letters (I know of at least two) that are written by doctors (who were floxed) for doctors. I think you can find them on this site, or if not just google “dear doctor” and Todd Plumb ; dear colleague and Miriam J. de Jonge M.D.

          As for my timeline…and again, bear in mind I was very badly floxed—I started noticing side effects (although like most, I didn’t link it to the Cipro right away) after just one pill. I ended up taking 4. It started with numbness in fingers and toes, blurred visions and large floaters, and swelling over the wrist. Within weeks I spiraled down into a hellish nightmare. Worsening vision, olfactory damage to where everything in the world asphyxiated me–and I mean EVERYTHING. It was just horrific. Like being surrounded by vats of bleach 24/7; horrific midback pain; major GI issues, with 30 pound weight loss; choking sensations around the neck, ZERO sleep for weeks then 1-2 hours for months; hives, hair loss, it just went on and on. But the worst was having to gasp for every breath. I seriously do not know how I am still here today, because I just wanted out. I just didn’t have the means.

          After finally realizing that allopaths offered no help (some not even acknoledgement) I ended up at a naturopath’s office. I had never been to once before and I was scared—but at that point I was gasping for air and I really didn’t care if I lived or died. (kind of a win/win 🙂 ) Anyhow, I got several different IVs and after about the 5th, the pain in my back went away. After several months of 2 IVs a week, other things started to lessen. I would say after about 9 months of IVs I was at around 80%. (Also LOTS of supplements and pulsed electromagnetic therapy…hard to say how much that helped.) Today it is two years since the floxing, and I have (maybe permanent) numbness in my toes, a couple fingers that are wonky, ocassional breathing glitches ( but NO WHERE like where I was) and GI issues and a couple other things. I get phantom scents that come and go. The vision in one eye still has huge floaters, and sometimes little black dots (another type of floater I believe) and the vision is worse than it had been pre cipro. (I also was given prednisone with it too though, and that exacerbates the side effects.) Oh—btw— do NOT take any steroids OR NSAIDS. Where I am today compared to where I was after the Cipro is astounding. I had felt like I was dying (and quite frankly wanted to) and it was hard to imagine ever being even close to normal again.

          IT was also discovered that at least one knee had a torn meniscus a year later. This was the same knee that experienced a lot of “popping” early on. So I think it tore rather early but I didn’t know it until one more when I went to get out of bed and collapsed in a heap. I ended up getting a prolozone injection a few months ago, so am waiting to see how that fared. It is supposed to help your body heal itself. I didn’t want surgery, and stem cell was too expensive. This seemed like a good choice. I wanted to mention this because as an athlete, I don’t want you to despair. It seems like there are natural alternatives to most of the injuries. So far, so good. No pain. And I hope to go hiking again one day soon. If you like, you can ask Lisa to send me your email address.

          (btw if you took a generic you cannot sue the manufacturer. At least at this point in time. a couple law firms are working on that but it could be years before any compensation would be available that route.

        • Brian February 26, 2017 at 1:04 pm

          L,

          I live in the Tustin area and so I’m not too far from Newport (I grew up in Costa Mesa). I’m really sorry to hear about your symptoms but it’s heartening to know that you did manage to come back. I’m not sure what the future holds for me just know. I’m trying to manage the best I can and, right now, getting a good night’s sleep is paramount for me so that I can make good decisions in the next few weeks.

        • L February 26, 2017 at 1:31 pm

          I just did a little google search and found this place. I know nothing about the quality of care, but Ido notice he offers prolotherapy which is what I mentioned. I also notice he lists the treatment of Lyme and we have many things in common with Lyme patients. (A full half of my ND’s practice is Lyme patients.) I can’t tell from the site if he offers IV therapy. Still might be a place you want to check into (bear in mind most insurers do not cover NDs—which is frustrating because they are doctors and go to medical school—just one with a focus more on wellness and less on big pharma.
          http://holisticsolutionsdoc.com/general-medicine/

    • Bob February 26, 2017 at 11:53 am Reply

      That a doctor would prescribe that much cipro for a minor eye abrasion is unbelievable. That completely falls outside of the latest recommended guidelines for using cipro. Keep good records as you may want to sue the doctor as well as Bayer. GABA is (500 mg) is helpful for sleeping. The anxiety is truly terrifying at first. Eventually that will pass. The sad truth is you cannot trust doctors. They believe what big pharma tells them and they control the FDA.

      • Brian February 26, 2017 at 12:01 pm Reply

        Hi Bob,

        In hindsight I agree with you about the prescription. In fact when I did see the ophthalmologist as a follow-up he said that the oral antibiotics were not even necessary! I’m thankful that I stopped at five pills, though.

        I am not familiar with GABA? It looks like it is widely available so maybe I will run out and get some. I took 10mg Meletonin last night and slept for about four hours “OK” and then woke with a splitting headache. Not sure what that was all about. I’m going to try 5mg meletonin tonight.

        • Bob February 26, 2017 at 12:17 pm

          I think 5 mg or even 3 mg is better. When you get a chance go back and look at Lisa’s posts on the changes in FDA guidelines in the last year or so. They don’t inform the doctors and the doctors don’t bother to stay informed. The only way to start changing their behavior is to sue them. They do not respond to anything else. I have no sympathy for them as they are ruining the health and lives of people and do not do their homework.

    • Madge hirsch February 27, 2017 at 11:25 am Reply

      500iu vit D is a tiny dose. It will probably have no effect. You need to get a vit D test done and if your level is low supplement much more aggressively ie 3000- 5000iu à day. You could add some mitochondrial support like ubiquinol and also a probiotic to help heal your gut. Curcumin is supposed to help anxiety.

      • L February 27, 2017 at 12:15 pm Reply

        You are so right. I was taking 2,000 iu of D and thought I was ahead of the game. I got tested and now the doctor has me on 10,000 for the time being. And yes, Turmeric, with 95% curcumin has shown to be as effective (perhaps more) than antidepressants

        • Madge hirsch March 2, 2017 at 8:38 am

          I have been taking the 95% curcumin for several months now and I feel it has helped a lot with making me less anxious and depressed about the physical floxing symptoms like the tendonitis. I have relapsed a bit physically recently but I feel more confident that it will pass .

        • L March 2, 2017 at 10:31 am

          That’s great, and unlike antidepressants, Turmeric actually is GOOD for you—IT’s anti-inflammatory and is supposed to help with diseases like diabetes as well as arthritis and clotting

        • charlottejacobs March 5, 2017 at 6:52 am

          L The dose of vitamin D has to be monitored to ensure that you do not become toxic. Vit D is a prohormone. Vitamin D3 is usually given with magnesium to aid absorption, if not being absorbed then there are vitamin D3 and d2 injections available.
          The test that should be done is the Bone Profile test.

        • L March 5, 2017 at 11:20 am

          I was tested

  28. lenny February 27, 2017 at 2:08 am Reply

    Hi Brian,

    so sorry to hear, its a mess. Besides the valuable advices from L and Bob for me it is helpful to eat less or no sugar even fruit sugar increases my pain level!

    Wish you all the best!

  29. Mike February 27, 2017 at 3:04 pm Reply

    I haven’t posted on here in a long time but I just wanted to say that I went on a vacation to Tulum which is south of Cancun and I can honestly say that I have felt better than I have in years. For years I tried everything and nothing has worked but being in the sun and in the ocean and at much lower altitude than where I live in Colorado I experienced some healing. I felt human again for the first time in years. I’m not sure whether this is an oxygenation issue or mag in ocean water issue or what but for those of you desperate to feel better even for a bit.. go get some sun and get in the ocean!! I don’t think it is a mag issue because mag has never done anything for me.

    • Barbara Arnold February 28, 2017 at 7:52 am Reply

      Your so right Mike. After any vacation I always feel much better. Lisa said being in the ocean with all the minerals it contains really helps. Maybe it’s a combonation of relaxing and sun and sea, who knows.

      • Bob February 28, 2017 at 12:50 pm Reply

        I didn’t even start to recover after I was floxed until I went to the beach. I went twice since then and each time I felt better. Minerals in the ocean and Vitamin D from the sun. If only I could get insurance to pay for it.

  30. sophie February 28, 2017 at 12:08 am Reply

    Hello! I m Sophie, french 32 years old. I ve been floxed in august 2015. Since that date, things have been getting worse and worse. Arthritis.. the worst for me are Cns and Ans issues… with severe dysautonomia which means muscle twitching like crazy, shaking, trembling, fainting moments many times a day, hypotension and Pots, now moments of severe hypoglycemia, intolerance to sugar, huge loss of weight… , digestive problems lots of symptoms… I m skinny, spend days bed ridden… don t know what to eat, what supplement to take anylonger… I have a low potassium when crisis maybe because I have frequent urination… my b12 is often high… the other tests are normal, including brain MRI… any suggestion would be appreciated… I m writing this from hospital but hospital can t help… I don t know if how much more my body can handle. Thanks a lot for ANY advice. Take care. Sophie

    • lenny February 28, 2017 at 4:03 am Reply

      Hi Sophie,

      so sorry that this happend to you too. I would suggest to follow the advices of L written down a little above (February 26, 2017 at 11:22). You can also use the search function of this site.
      In your situation i would check every medication, because people which got floxed are often unable to tolerate them.

      Good luck!

      • lenny February 28, 2017 at 4:04 am Reply

        Very important is to avoid NSAID (like Ibuprofen) and steroids.

      • Sophie March 1, 2017 at 1:52 am Reply

        Hello Lenny! Thank you so much for your advice. I have not taken any medication despite all the suffering for one year and a half. I have read L ‘s advice… I m a a non gluten diet already and have only organic food.
        Take care and good luck to you.
        Sophie

    • Jason February 28, 2017 at 12:55 pm Reply

      Hi Sophie. I remember you from 2015 when you came here for help, so sorry you are not getting better. People need to be careful because a few things typically recommended for Floxies are actually harmful too many, including in the book sold through link here, and of course Floxies are extra sensitive to many things in general with everyone having slight differences here or there where even some generally safe natural supplements and foods cause people issues. I am confident I can help you with these things and the significant issues you are having as I can already tell what is going on from what you have said, and I have helped others with very similar symptoms, and have also went through them myself. If you would like my help you can ask Lisa for my email and find out more about me here under the article in the 2nd comment: https://floxiehope.com/2015/10/12/im-floxed-now-what/ Hang in there sending hugs your way, Jason

      • Sophie March 1, 2017 at 2:17 am Reply

        Hi Jason! Thank you sooo much for your words. I am sending you an email right now, i ve found your address on one of your comments. Hopefully, it s the right one. This vagal nerve problem seems to cause many of my issues… each time I eat or after meals, I will get a fainting moment which is terrible because I m skinny… truly hope you will help me to get better! Let me know if you have not received my email… I m sending it to you straight away.
        Thank you again and hope to chat with you soon

        Sophie

        • Madge hirsch March 2, 2017 at 8:52 am

          Bonjour Sophie je suis désolé que votre état n’a trouve aucune amélioration. J’espère beaucoup que Jason peut vous aider . Gros bisous Madge.

    • Kurt February 28, 2017 at 6:27 pm Reply

      Very sorry to hear of your condition, Sophie. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Hope we all get some healing this year….

      • Sophie March 1, 2017 at 2:19 am Reply

        Thank you very much Kurt! Take care! I m thinking and praying for every one who has to go through this ordeal… thanks to Lisa we are not alone!

  31. janna marsh February 28, 2017 at 6:22 pm Reply

    Hi. Yesterday I went to the ER for a kidney infection. They gave me my first dose of Cipro while I was there. I did disclose to the doctor that I suffer from severe fibromyalgia when she asked my health history. Of course I was in so much pain and anxious to feel better so I didn’t even question what they were giving me. I came home with a prescription and took my second 500mg dose before bed. I then noticed an extra leaflet from the pharmacy. I was horrified! I already have tendinitis in my left knee, for years now. Obviously, I knew this is not the medication for me. I thought since I only took the two pills I should be fine. But sure enough, my knee started really hurting. Today, it seems my entire left leg is having pain in several spots. My calf, my ankle, my knee, on the top of my foot. I am scared to death!!!! I am having panic attacks because I feel like I poisoned myself and I will never get better! Someone please help!!! I’m trying to read all the information but I’m overwhelmed and my brain is shutting down. I already battle anxiety and depression because I live with chronic pain. I can’t handle anything more.

    • L February 28, 2017 at 7:26 pm Reply

      Janna, so sorry this happened but glad you stopped when you did. Sadly, it can only take one pill to do damage. Make sure to get 600-800 mg of magnesium (avoid the citrate because of diarrhea—try threonate, orotate if you can find them.) Take probiotics. Even though you may think it has nothing to do with your tendons, these toxins destroy your gut and can lead to all sorts of other health issues. AVoid fluoride and any meats that are not organic (you risk getting more antibiotics.) Do NOT take any NSAIDs or steroids for pain. Find a good integrative doctor or naturopath…esp one that does IVs. Look through some of the posts here for more advice.

      • janna marsh February 28, 2017 at 9:43 pm Reply

        This evening I am experiencing pins and needles in my left foot. I honestly can’t believe this is happening to me. I live with chronic pain every day. I literally just started exercising again about a week or so ago and it was actually helping. Now I’m terrified to exercise because of tendon tears. My foot feels like it’s asleep, but it isn’t. Thanks for the advice. I’m trying to read the comments on here but my anxiety makes me shut down. I’m 42, I have 7 children. I already struggle. Now this. I want to die. I’m so angry that doctors are poisoning us!!! I’m sorry, I’m rambling. I’m just still in shock that this is real. Thanks again and I welcome any advice.

        • L February 28, 2017 at 9:49 pm

          well Janna, I was SEVERELY floxed…really near death and I am back to 90-something percent. Without going into a lot of detail, there was not a part of my body that was not messed up—vision, olfactory, gut, tendons, heart, lungs, you name it. Try not to freak out, and do take breaks from the computer. We are all pissed off at ignorant, big pharma-trained doctors. That is why I now only see NDs and integrative doctors. Go easy exercise wise for now, for at least 6 months. If you want to post the area of the country you are in(are you in the US?) someone may be able to direct you to a good ND or integrative dr. They are the ones who help us heal, because they have treatments that are healhtful, and they are the ones who see all the damage done by allopathic doctors, who have nothing to offer. By the time I saw my ND he had already treated several floxies—ditto my acupuncturist.

        • Madge hirsch March 2, 2017 at 9:09 am

          Try not to panic. I read somewhere a post from someone who was floxed that taking calcium helped her. As you are not supposed to take calcium or magnesium supplements alongside the Cipro because it stops it from working maybe taking some calcium as well as a lot of magnesium will help. The Cipro itself can cause anxiety but as you took only two doses this might die down now you have stopped taking it . L is right about taking a break from the computer. The negative stories just make you more anxious. Start a good probiotic straight away to start healing your gut. I was so horrified by what I read I didn’t read anything for several months and did not find this site and so missed out on some of the good advice here. I did not start the probiotic as soon as I should have and regret that now. I had pins and needles down my arms whilst on the iv Cipro in the hospital and down my legs after they stopped it but only for a few days.

      • Sophie March 4, 2017 at 10:38 am Reply

        Hi L, I truly am near death. Nothing works anymore in my body. I m 42 kgs. Can t eat or tolerate food anylonger. It seems to be Cns and Ans issues. Any miracle supplement that could help? How did you manage to get better?

        • L March 4, 2017 at 11:27 am

          Oh Sophie, I am so sorry. I completely empathsize. Words cannot describe how nightmarish I was at my worst. I lost over 30 lbs and I was not heavy to begin with. I could barely shuffle from my bed to the bathroom, just feet away. Medical doctors did NOTHING for me. Just tests and more tests. I took 800 mg of magnesium, and LOTS of other supplements, but I started to get better when I started IVs from a naturopath. The ones I got were H2O2, high dose vitamin c, phosphatidylcholine and Myers (The latter three with a push of glutathione.) You can do an online search and find out the benefits of each.

          AT the point I went to the naturopath, whose name I found on floxie hope, I was scared. I had never been to one before, and unfortunately had bought into the medical establishment’s warnings about any kind of naturopathic care. But at that point, I felt like I was dying, and truly wanted to die. I was in so much misery. I could barely see, was gasping for breath, needed help to walk, was in excruciating pain,. and so frail. So I figured I had nothing to lose. Within weeks of the IVs, the pain in my back went away. Within a few months, other things started to lessen as well. It took about a year to feel 75-80% normal and another year to feel 90-something. I still have vision issues, some nerve issues and a few other things, but compared to where I was, truly night and day.

          One thing you must be certain to do is add good multi-strain probiotics to your diet and avoid gluten and any non-organic meat that could possibly contain antibiotics. Avoid fluoride too. Your weight loss is at least in part due to the damage to the good gut bacteria. Try to eat organic as much as possible. Also fermented foods are good. I have trouble with dairy but do fine with plain goats milk kefir, which is great for gut issues. There is also something you can buy called Restore mineral supplement. I know you are in Europe somewhere…I would just do a search for “integrative internist” or “integrative MD” and also search for NDs who do IV therapy.

        • Bob March 4, 2017 at 3:39 pm

          I believe the BX Protocol to be the closet thing to a miracle treatment. It renders all toxins inert that inhibit ATP production. The only problem is that it costs $17,000.00 up front. That covers a full year of treatment with daily monitoring. I plan on doing it if I can raise the money. I talked to the doctor who developed it. (Dr. Smith) He is a true genius.

    • Lisa March 5, 2017 at 10:50 am Reply

      Janna – Early in the reaction, the supplements noted in this post may help – https://floxiehope.com/2016/02/25/mitigating-fluoroquinolone-damage/. Here is some more general advice as well – https://floxiehope.com/2015/10/12/im-floxed-now-what/. I wish that doctors weren’t so ignorant of the effects of fluoroquinolones. If they weren’t so clueless, they would avoid giving FQs to people with fibromyalgia. I’m very sorry that you have been “floxed” on top of everything else!

      Sophie – Huge hugs to you! I hope that L’s advice helps you! In addition, I recommend doing everything you can to reduce stress. Stress can shut down the ANS. I’m not saying that anything is “just” from stress, I’m just saying that stress makes everything worse. I hope that one of the recommendations on this site, or one of the comments, helps you! My heart aches for you. Hugs and positive thoughts going your way. xoxo

      Bob – If you, or anyone else reading this, goes through the BX Protocol, please report back to let us know how it works.

      -Lisa

  32. Constance Ferendinou March 2, 2017 at 12:37 pm Reply

    Have you looked at the toxic effects of the fluoroquinolones to the liver as the possible cause of the suffering of those who have been floxed?I suspect that my illness Chronic Fatigue SYndrome was caused by medication and I am surprised at the apathy of health professionals when it comes to warning the public of hepatotoxicity of all kinds of medications and diagnosing and treating those affected.Liver disease can be very debilitating and can affect brain function.If you google fluoroquinolones and liver damage or hepatotoxicity a number of articles will show up but since liver blood tests are unreliable it can be impossible to prove liver damage (unless maybe liver biopsy is performed)If you like I can send you references regarding the unreliability of liver blootests,if you think you should warn those who have suffered damaged health after being floxed that their liver might have been affected.

    • charlottejacobs March 3, 2017 at 1:48 pm Reply

      Hi Constance That was very interesting. Have you got the references to liver tests please.

      • Constance Ferendinou March 4, 2017 at 10:49 am Reply

        They are from a while back but the diagnostic gap hasn’t been filled.I quote from a)Ricketts W E Pathological liver with minimal or no change in liver tests Am J Med Sci 1951 Mar 22:(3):p 291″Liver tests within normal range are not synonymous with the abscence of liver pathology, a point not sufficiently emphasized…Approximately one-tenth of the normal parenchyma is able to carry out adequate function”b)Zamcheck N Sidman R L The New England Journal of Medicine Needle Biopsy of the liver-its use in clinical and investigative Medicine Dec 17 1953 Vol 249 No25 p 1022”In every hospital there are patients whose serious illness remains undiagnosed despite prolonged clinical and laboratory study.There may be no clinical findings to suggest liver disease.Yet liver biopsy ,performed even in the abscence of hepatomegaly,had proved useful in such cases.Von Falkenjausen et al. recommend the use of liver biopsy in all cases of obscure illness in which a definitive and clear diagnosis cannot be made by ordinary methods.”
        If you like II can try to find a reference regarding the part of the liver that breaks down chemicals being predominantly affected by toxic metabolites.I think that it is reasonable to assume that liver damage in that part of the liver or in bile ducts,can affect the liver’s capacity to break down and eliminate hormones and chemicals,which might be eliminated by other tissues including the brain via other metabolic pathways(such as the one that synthesizes prostaglandins).I recently came across the term ductopenia and it means that medications can cause irreversible damage to bile ducts that means some people might have a very reduced number of bile ducts.The site livertox.nih.gov/Phenotypes_vbds.html lists fluoroquinolones among the medications that can cause vanishing bile duct syndrome.
        Finally I would like to include one more quote regarding fatigue and liver disease from Hepatology 1995 Nov 22 (5) p1606 Fatigue associated with chronic liver disease:a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma by E Anthony Jones ”There is a strong clinical impression that many patients with compensated chronic liver disease develop fatigue of a severity that seems to be out of proportion to the patient’s general medical condition…fatigue can be the dominant and maybe the only symptom in patients with chronic cholestasis”.

        • Bob March 4, 2017 at 3:26 pm

          I have long thought floxed have liver issues.

    • Lisa March 5, 2017 at 10:53 am Reply

      Hi Constance,

      In the “Post-hepatic Syndrome / Liver Damage” section of this post – https://www.hormonesmatter.com/fluoroquinolone-toxicity/ – there are some interesting articles about how FQs affect the liver. Articles about hepatic metabolism are really tough to comprehend. :/ I think there’s a lot to it though.

      Regards,
      Lisa

  33. Trevor March 3, 2017 at 3:03 pm Reply

    Hey guys I’m almost 4 months out. I thought I was getting better almost at 80% 3 days ago I woke up and all my symptoms were back my legs were killing me, twitching everywhere but the worst was the mental issues. I just freaked out for a couple days. Ive been using weed to help sleep and with anxiety I wanted to know your experience with marijuana,, also about my experience. Is this what a cycle is? Do they get better? What’s the reasoning behind this? The anxiety and mental stuff scares the crap out of me its worse than withdrawal.

    • Stephanie March 3, 2017 at 3:14 pm Reply

      For me it’s all a cycle and I have had positive experience with cannibus but only smoking it injesting it was not good for me. It helps me manage pain and sleep and in my case only way I can eat with out having choking issues. We are all different and for me it helps with the stuff you were talking about. I have never recovered so I can’t comment on that portion of what you were asking but from what I read people have gotten better after flares. I like to think you can get better too.

      • Trevor March 3, 2017 at 3:41 pm Reply

        Did your anxiety or mental part of what you were dealing with get better? It’s crazy I was fi e taking a walk with my girlfriend d all happy that my symptoma were disappearing tha bam.

        • Stephanie March 3, 2017 at 3:58 pm

          That comes and goes I personally through mindfulness and working on recognizing that is the drug talking you can call it whatever you like to make it easier to control. I monitor myself and when I get rushes of anxiety I force myself to do whatever it is that caused the anxiety to come on I get fast heart beat from it and spasms from it. But I feel like I can’t control so much that if I allow the fear/anxiety monster that now lives in side me then I might as well end it now. I am the master of my mental being no one else. It took about a year to get to that ability and it has helped me deal with the truck load of symptoms I have from being floxed.

    • Brian March 3, 2017 at 3:44 pm Reply

      I’m about a week out and I just posted here in regards to my symptoms. For me the anxiety is the worst. So it got really ad and I applied for / received a medical marijuana card. I tried edibles this week for the first time and took too much (bad idea). However, last night I had a more reasonable amount and it seemed to relax me. I’m still having very terrible nights sleeping

    • Lisa March 5, 2017 at 10:55 am Reply

      Marijuana increases my anxiety. I’m not a fan. Everyone is different though, and to each their own.

      Lisa

      • Jeremi March 8, 2017 at 1:49 pm Reply

        Hi Lisa, Cannabis Oil Extract is an interesting alternative, as contains healthy CBD and almost none of THC (which in most cases is responisble for anxiety).

        CBD is well tested immunesystem booster.

        l live in Germany though. To get more knowledge search for products like Hanf Complete 5% CBD

        Best.

      • ChristmasCarla March 12, 2017 at 5:43 pm Reply

        Lisa, marijuana doesn’t agree with everyone, but just FYI, a reaction of anxiety or paranoia is an indicator of either overdose or a strain that has the wrong combination of cannabinoids for a person. Usually it’s a Sativa-dominant strain that causes anxiety. Indica-dominant strains can cause lethargy and put you to sleep in overdose. This is information for those that may want to explore the healing properties of cannabis but might be discouraged by an uncomfortable reaction. The first thing to try after that would be a much smaller dose and/or a different strain.

        • Jeremy March 13, 2017 at 1:17 am

          ….or you can use CBD extract oil which does not contain THC, therefore no paranoia and anxiety. I use 5% solution (Germany),

  34. Sophie March 4, 2017 at 10:56 am Reply

    Hello! Would you know any integrative and allopathic clinic in europe where they could help me to try some treatment?

  35. Rianna March 4, 2017 at 2:09 pm Reply

    I keep seeing that you should never take steroids after being exposed to Cipro. I’m just wondering why?

    I have low cortisol and would like to take some adrenal cortex extract, but I’m scared to! I’m unsure or it mimics Cortef (a corticosteroid). I’m just looking for the why. Thanks!

    • charlottejacobs March 4, 2017 at 5:23 pm Reply

      Steroids lower the immune system making you suscepticible to infection .

    • Lisa March 5, 2017 at 11:05 am Reply

      As Charlotte said, it lowers the immune system, and I don’t think that is an effect that “floxies” want–especially if (and this is a big “if”) fluoroquinolone toxicity is related to other infections. Also, steroid injections into joints further weaken connective tissue. From, http://www.levaquinadversesideeffect.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/Hall-2011.pdf, “Increasing age and concomitant systemic corticosteroid use appear to significantly increase the risk of adverse events.”

      HOWEVER, if you have low cortisol, the benefits of Cortef may outweigh the potential harm. Talk to your doctor about all the pros and cons. I find Dr. Meglathery’s web site – http://www.rccxandillness.com/ – to be fascinating, and one of the things that she mentions is that people with the chronic illness profile that she examines may benefit from cortisol injections.

      It’s not a question with an easy answer. If you are having musculoskeletal problems, be very wary. If you are dealing with other symptoms, well, the pros and cons may need to be weighed.

      One thing that I really dislike about steroids is they seem to slingshot people. Meaning that they suppress the symptoms for a little while, then when the steroids are stopped, the symptoms are even worse than they were to begin with.

      Regards,
      Lisa

    • Jeremy March 11, 2017 at 7:18 pm Reply

      Rianna, as far as I did some reading, better to avoid medications with Fluoride component and there are many steroids on the list:
      http://www.slweb.org/ftrcfluorinatedpharm.html

      Just something to think about.

  36. E March 4, 2017 at 11:14 pm Reply

    Has anyone taken gabapentin/neurontin after being floxed?

    • Kurt March 7, 2017 at 7:12 pm Reply

      Good question. I would like to know this too! 2 years out and my neuropathy is just getting worse.

    • Debs March 8, 2017 at 5:21 am Reply

      Personally I would not touch it or similar, with a bargepole. in regards to allopathic drugs used for serious chronic pain, with a choice between the drugs they use off label for pain, those which they have not much idea of the mechanism, how they work what they do to the body & brain, & the opioids which have been around for a very long time, the devil we know a lot about in other words, I would choose an opioid for severe intractable chronic pain every time. Do you have access to Kratom or other natural pain treatment imho might be worth exploring that route if so .

      http://www.wellnessresources.com/freedom/articles/neurontin_and_lyrica_are_a_death_sentence_for_new_brain_synapses/

      • E March 8, 2017 at 3:19 pm Reply

        I appreciate your help but I don’t have much of a choice. I have disc problems in my neck and lower back and the nerve pain isn’t something I can live with. I don’t have the money to try alternative medicine. I was hoping to hear from someone who has taken it but I guess I’ll be the guinea pig lol

        • Debs March 8, 2017 at 4:16 pm

          I have herniated discs myself courtesy of FQs, & I had knock on horrendous sciatic pain due to this issue , plus the pain of 7 floxings & also serious neuropathic pain from years of psychotropic drugs on top, ( which I then had an ADR to ) courtesy of my first floxing which was then misdiagnosed. In respect of my own pain level after all that I did not actually have a life, I was just existing in a haze of agony . Opioids have for me controlled my pain enough, to the point that it gave me my life back although it is not quite the same as it was, I DO now have a life enough that I can function & I feel it is a decent one.

          I cant access Kratom where I reside, it now having been made illegal.

          Having been in this weird parallel world myself almost as long as the FQs have, & since I extricated myself from the horrendous situation my first floxing left me in, I have have carried out over 17 years of research & ongoing into a large number of allopathic drugs, & one thing I do know is that our Drs do not know much at all about the drugs they dish out, the misinformation allopathic Drs have been fed by Big Pharma on those allopathic drugs is horrendously skewed, & much of the information re those ‘ side effects found ‘ in the clinical trials is missing , the RAW DATA being only known to big Pharma .
          So whatever drug you are thinking of taking E, simply because of this, please make sure you do some deep research into it, just to make sure you get your OWN as full as possible informed consent on it, before you start taking it, because believe me, you will NOT get this accurate as possible informed consent from any allopathic Dr .

      • E March 8, 2017 at 10:03 pm Reply

        Thank you for the links. Could I talk to you via email?

  37. Faisal March 6, 2017 at 9:49 pm Reply

    Hello every one,

    After 15 monthe still i have high heart rate any advice ! Any one had same problem

    • L March 6, 2017 at 10:37 pm Reply

      Faisal, so sorry you are still having that problem. It may be hard to tell if it is a heart issue or anxiety, which can just be crippling after these toxins. Some things to try, when it is most noticeable, is to change your breathing. Breathe in to the count of 4, then forcibly exhale for 7 or 8 counts. This will switch you from the sympathetic (fight or flight) to parasympathetic (relaxation) nervous system. Walking may be to the same thing, although it seems counterintuitive. Meditation helps as well. I had the racing heart for months, but I also had breathing issues and pericardial effusion. But my anxiety was off the charts, and the heart was always so fast, the more anxious I was. I haven’t had it now for more than half a year (the racing heart.) I think it will go away on its own eventually, but try to see if you can slow it down by doing that breathing.

      • Faisal March 7, 2017 at 9:19 pm Reply

        Thanks L for your replay ans support

        • L March 7, 2017 at 9:21 pm

          You’re welcome. Hang in there! If I can get through this anyone can.

    • eileen kay March 9, 2017 at 11:48 am Reply

      Have you seen a cardiologist?

    • eileen kay March 10, 2017 at 5:26 am Reply

      Faisal I assume you have been investigated for your heart issues?

  38. ursula March 7, 2017 at 11:51 am Reply

    Hi, mostly I’m just lurking here. I am a mefloquine survivor (aka lariam anti-malarial), 1 pill brought me to my knees 2013. same poison as FQ’s, cousin medication, landed me in psych hospital. All tests, brain MRI and EEG normal. High Pulse and blood pressure weird for months and months. Nothing they’ve tried worked on me, except stilnox and ativan 2 p day helped a little for first 7 months (remember its another toxin, but I could not go without it, can be very difficult to get off from, first night without stilnox extreme withdrawal that night). Cried like a baby 4 times p day (severe depression for months). After 3 years the heart issues calmed down, 2,5 years for depression and doom feeling to get better, 18 months to get to 7 hours sleep, 18 months for nightmares to calm down, still have them sometimes, could not sleep first 5 months, had to use sleeping pill first 5 months to get 6 hours and i mean a strong one. Anxiety out of this world for months and months. Still stiffness weakness soreness, brain fog, cracking popping, fatique little better, vision still affected. I follow a whole foods diet a few months now when i had the brain ability to start cooking, no gluten, dairy, sugar, soy, (terry wahls protocol more or less, not on the highest level). It helps with mood memory a little and keep the vivid nightmares away). I still cant take supplements nor homeopathic stuff not even baby doses, want so badly to take iodine for example, but cant. Brain zapps and sudden stabbing pain is gone. Tingles numbness better. My heart goes out to everyone here. It ruined my family to see me like this. Is there anyone who follows a ketogenic diet on here. I still keep on hoping that one day i will be at least 90% (70% now). Regards. I dont go to doctors so i don’t really do tests. I’m from South Africa, English my second language. BTW I don’t want to be the creators of these drugs on judgement day. Remember most people get better even if it takes years.

  39. ursula March 7, 2017 at 12:31 pm Reply

    Forgot to add, tinitus took 3 years to reduce and I had diaree for a year and nausea first 5 months had to drink valoids

    • Lisa March 8, 2017 at 10:45 pm Reply

      Hi Ursula,

      Thank you for commenting, and I’m so sorry for everything that you have been through! Mefloquine/Lariam is a horrible drug. I know of people who have had serious psychiatric problems after taking it, and one of my good personal friends still has problems with insomnia from taking it about a decade ago. I took it for 8 weeks (1 pill per week) when I was in Zambia in 2006. I didn’t think that it affected me at the time. I wonder if it contributed to my eventual problem with Ciprofloxacin though. There really does seem to be a threshold issue going on with the FQs, and since mefloquine is a cousin drug, maybe it contributes too.

      As far as vitamins and minerals go, some people who haven’t been able to tolerate supplements have done well with vitamin and mineral patches. They’re worth looking into.

      Also, I found this to be really interesting, and maybe useful for “floxies” and you – https://beyondmeds.com/2017/01/22/remineralization/.

      Some people have followed a ketogenic diet. The people who have followed it have had good things to say about it. It’s really difficult to follow though. I have reservations about how it may affect adrenals and your thyroid too. I suggest working with a doctor or naturopathic doctor if you do something like a ketogenic diet.

      I wish that more people understood that these drugs cause long-lasting, multi-symptom illness. These horrible drugs are given out way too flippantly.

      I wish you healing, and thank you for joining us!

      Regards,
      Lisa

      • ursula March 10, 2017 at 7:21 am Reply

        Thanks Lisa. I also took 2 Moxifloxacin pills in 2011 that I know of, saw it when I cleaned out my cupboard. Luckily I forgot to take the rest of the course, did not affect me then. I was a perfectly healthy 45 year old when this 1 mefloquine changed my life in 2013 – within 2,5 days after this pill, all symptoms began, the insomnia and anxiety were extreme from that day – could not sleep 1 minute for months. My own sister took mefloquine without any affect. My brother took many once a week anti malarials 30 years ago when they forced feed them the stuff in the army (must have been mefloquine). He became very very ill – insomnia, anxiety, etc. He was later diagnosed with scizophrenia and till this day he is on medication He has a very difficult life. They told us its a illness you develop in a young adult stage, he had no signs before the army. It could not be PTSD because he never went to war. Today after all these years we realized what the reason was – never ever connected the dots. He is the only one in the family with psychiatric problems. My doctor told me this Mefliam (mefloquine) can only upset your stomach but its rare, so I tried one to see how it affects the stomach before giving one to my son and hubby. So they did not take it when I started with problems. luckily. What an uninformed ignorant person (the doctor), when I told him when my symptoms started, that this stuff is black boxed and how could he not tell me, he said he can’t tell everyone every side effects of a med, then the doctor told us we are not welcome in his practice anymore. So from doctor to doctor we went no one wanting to believe, they told me there must be an underlying thing that surfaced or “this wont last long”. Just the psychiatrist believed me and read up on this and wanted to take it to the university to the students. It has been 3,5 years for me, people it gets better. To give some hope (I know it is not a FQ), see these articles, at least these guys got better, both were mefloquine cases.

        http://www.lariaminfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Noir-of-Thalay-Sagar-2.pdf

        https://www.outsideonline.com/1909406/bad-trip

        http://aif.org/2013/06/thank-you-india-2/

        This last one is how bad this couple was (they are also in my country) – I spoke with her, they got much better – took years:

        http://www.lariaminfo.org/pdfs/mefliam-za.pdf

        Many gets better way before 5 years

        • L March 10, 2017 at 10:19 am

          and Gulf War Syndrome is linked to Cipro. There is so much damage done in the name of greed, and most western medicine doctors are CLUELESS.

      • Garry March 11, 2017 at 9:29 am Reply

        Hi Kurt,
        My heart goes out to you and all the other floxies suffering so much.

        I am floxed now for 4 months and have spent hundreds of hours studying the mechanisms of floxing to find a way out of the nightmare. I have learned so much from the floxie hope website and am so grateful to all the contributors who provided a launch pad for hope! My protocol is multi-pronged and is dietary, nutritional, physical, psychological and spiritual and oh so necessary for me.

        I am taking high doses of supplements and regular IVs. I take over 45 supplements a day spaced every 30-60 minutes and I believe this has kept me able to continue working and living a fairly “normal” life despite the lingering neurological and physical symptoms, though there is no skiing or running or heavy work… it did not stop me from chainsawing firewood and shoveling snow off my roof though. Many other activities needed to be put on hold though.
        Some of these supplements have already been listed on other posts, some have not. Many I’ve never heard of before my floxing nightmare but will likely continue taking them for life as there is some pretty good health developments over the last 10-20 years. I am not a doctor so none of this is advice for anyone, but a sharing of things I’m doing. I have had to become a biohacker to survive the last 4 months and to continue to claw my way out of the nightmarish Cipro funhouse. Before taking anything suggested or referenced, beware, do your own research, and confirm with health care providers to be certain that it is right for you.

        Benfotiamine is a synthetic activated form of niacin, vitamin B1. It is used to treat diabetic neuropathy and retinopathy and other nerve damage.

        I started taking Benfotiamine for the last 2 weeks to reduce AGE levels. I don’t know if it might be something else, but it seems that my anxiety has been noticeably reduced since I started this supplement. I seem to be able to handle things better whereas before I would get flooded very easily and not self regulate well. Peripheral neuropathy is better too, maybe down to 10%, occasionally cycling up to 50% and then back down after a day or 2. We’ll see… Cipro has boomerang dynamics and jack-in-the-box surprises like no other, thus I don’t know if the trend will continue or if there is another horror behind the corner only 5 minutes away.

        Benfotiamine is an antioxidant that lowers advanced glycation end products (AGE) which are proteins or lipids that become glycated as a result of exposure to sugars. They can be a factor in aging and in the development or worsening of many degenerative diseases, of which Fluoroquinolone damage could fall into the category of degenerative disease.
        Oxidative stress can cause AGE levels to increase beyond normal levels leading to cellular degeneration. Like free radicals, AGEs can cause tremendous cellular damage, including peripheral neuropathy along with many other very bad things.

        AGE has been implicated in Alzheimer’s Disease, atherosclerosis, kidney disease, cardiovascular disease, stroke and other aging diseases. Quite the appropriate acronym for the stuff. AGEs induce damage by a process called cross-linking that causes intracellular damage and apoptosis. AGEs can cross-link collagen which can cause vascular stiffening and entrapment of low-density lipoprotein particles (LDL) in the artery walls leading to cardiovascular disease. Maybe it can cross-link and damage other collagen too, like in the tendons?

        AGEs form photosensitizers in the eye’s crystalline lens, which can develop cataracts. Reduced muscle function is also associated with AGEs.

        I wonder if the reason why we floxies cannot eat sugar is to keep AGE levels down to stop AGE damage?

        Wishing everyone full healing and wellness!
        Garry

  40. Brian March 10, 2017 at 11:11 am Reply

    I posted for the first time about two weeks ago. I’ve been having an awful time trying to sleep. I keep waking up from a dead sleep in a “panic”, essentially. Burning chest, forearms, etc. I’ve tried Melatonin, Weed, OTC sleeping pills, Xanax and now Ambien through a prescription. The most I can manage is about 3-4 hours straight. After that it’s pretty much a vicious cycle of nodding off and then this jolting out of sleep experience.

    I know I’m a short time into this but any insight would be helpful.

    • L March 10, 2017 at 11:22 am Reply

      Brian, I completely empathize. It’s horrible. I went through weeks where I quite literally did not sleep at all. I had around 30 side effects, some terrifying, like having to gasp for every breath—in addition to horrific chest pain and pressure and the sense I was being strangled (still have some of that almost two years later.) I would NEVER encourage anyone to take any pharmaceuticals, but for me, the ONLY reprieve I got from the suffocating was with ambien (generic). (I tried melatonin, tart cherry and a dozen other things.) Even at that, at first I only got one hour of sleep. It was the only time I wasn’t praying for death. I stayed on the ambien (zolpidem) and eventually got up to around 5-6 hours of sleep. Once the suffocating started subsiding I weaned off the ambien. (I cut the pill in 1/2 and did that for a couple weeks, then in quarters…) I finally got off the ambien, and my sleep was fairly stabilized at that point. It was less than pre-Cipro, but enough. I am now about two years out and like anyone I have the occasional insomnia, but that’s it. I think I was on the ambien for around 3 or 4 months, but for me it was a life saver. Trust me—it will pass. If the ambien works, stay on it but for a short period of time, and then wean off.

      • Brian March 10, 2017 at 11:26 am Reply

        Thanks, L. I actually got the prescription through my psychiatrist and he’s also put me on Citaolpram which I, reluctantly, agreed to start taking. I’ve been on it about a week now and 10mg. Not really happy about using it but the anxiety was so intense I landed in the ER last week.

        • L March 10, 2017 at 11:39 am

          yeah, it can be really crippling. My anxiety was as bad as the insomnia and neither helped the other. Gave up coffee for two years and tried to meditate, which was hard with a racing heart. If they meds help to get you into a sleeping pattern it is worth it. Just don’t stay on too long. I am now off all pharmaceuticals except for thyroid medication and I hope to not ever have to take anything from big pharma again.

        • Brian March 10, 2017 at 11:42 am

          I agree about big Pharma. I also am down to a minimum amount of caffeine because it is ramping up my anxiety like crazy. Do you sleep eight hours a night now?

        • L March 10, 2017 at 12:28 pm

          yes, most nights I do sleep 8 hours! I also only added coffee back into my life about a month ago—which was two years post-floxing.

        • Brian March 11, 2017 at 7:28 am

          L (or anyone else reading this), can you describe what your insomnia was like? I don’t want to open any old wounds but I’m trying to wrap my mind around what I am experiencing to see if it’s in line with others’ experiences.

          Basically I have no problem going to sleep at night. Before this I was in bed regularly by 9pm and up before 6am.

          What is happening now is that I will have a “normal” sleep for about 2 hours and then a sudden “jolt” out of sleep. I will awake feeling a burning sensation across my chest, my heart will be pounding and sometimes sweating. Some loss of sensation in my hands but they are not numb.

          I have to kick off the blank and the sheets because I feel so hot. Within a few minutes I will get cold again and cover up. I will then slowly drift off and be awakened again (as I described above) within the next hour or so.

          I tried some acupuncture yesterday for the first time and I was feeling very positive when I went to bed. I was truly feeling relaxed and hoping that I was going to be able to sleep naturally without any kind of sleep aid.

          Unfortunately last night was probably the worst night I’ve had in a week and I ended up taking a Xanax; that didn’t seem to help too much.

          I’m going to go back to the Ambien tonight because with that drug I was at least able to get like 3-4 hours straight before the panic-type jolt wakes me up.

          Is this the “norm” for insomnia for floxies?

        • Bob March 11, 2017 at 8:20 am

          I have similar symptoms. I will awake in the middle of the night with pain in my arms, chest up into my head that makes me want to jump off a bridge. Don’t know what brings it on.

        • Brian March 11, 2017 at 8:24 am

          Bob, for how long has that been happening to you? Is it nightly or do you have some good nights?

        • Bob March 11, 2017 at 8:36 am

          It doesn’t happen every night. I have nights I can sleep through. Have you tried 500 mg of GABA before bed.?

        • Lisa March 11, 2017 at 7:37 pm

          Brian, I have had similar problems with waking up in the middle of the night with a surge of adrenaline. I think that the problem, in my case at least, is my adrenal glands. I have been taking an herbal supplement from my acupuncturist called Adrenoplex that has been helpful. If you’re interested in it, or any other herbal adrenal support, I suggest asking an acupuncturist or herbalist about it.

          I also thought that this comment from a facebook friend about the link between the adrenals and the gut was interesting – https://floxiehope.com/comment-page-69/#comment-49429.

          In the Mag group on facebook – https://www.facebook.com/groups/MagnesiumAdvocacy/ – they suggest an adrenal cocktail that includes orange juice, salt, and cream of tartar. In Doug’s story he mentions how the mag protocol, including the adrenal cocktail, helped him – https://floxiehope.com/dougs-recovery-story-cipro-taken-for-prostatitis/.

          Regards,
          Lisa

        • Brian March 12, 2017 at 7:12 pm

          Thanks, Lisa

      • Madge hirsch March 10, 2017 at 3:10 pm Reply

        How have you got on with the coffee? I had to cut it out last year as it was giving me chest pain and tightness. I have once or twice ordered a post lunch coffee ( they are tiny cups for expressos here) had 2 or 3 sips and given the rest the rest to my husband. Sometimes I have been ok sometimes not.

        • L March 10, 2017 at 3:34 pm

          I told my integrative MD how much I missed coffee, and he said to try a cup in the morning (before noon). I did, and so far so good…this is two years post floxing though. No coffee in all that time. Sometimes I even have a second cup! Trader Joe’s organic with purified water.

  41. sophie March 11, 2017 at 2:04 am Reply

    Hello L, Lisa and Madge,
    Thanks for your messages. I will look for a naturopath in France who does IV s but it is not common here.
    The biggest trouble now is my sugar issues and hypoglycemia after meals and my weight of course. I don t know if the sugar problems can disappear at some point…or get better without any treatment….I m still looking for an integrative centrer in Europe. I will let you know about all this. Take care. Sophie

    • Lisa March 11, 2017 at 7:38 pm Reply

      Please keep in touch, Sophie, and let us know what you find. We’re all rooting for you!

      Hugs,
      Lisa

    • Madge hirsch March 17, 2017 at 2:52 am Reply

      Salut Sophie- I have problems with sudden drops in sugar too. Luckily not all the time and not as debilitating as you. For some reason they are always much worse in spring. I am convinced that a long ago floxing was reactivated in early 2011 by my autumn 2010 flu vaccination – do you remember the fuss here about the swine flu when Bachelot overbought massively the vaccine? Well they started putting it in the seasonal flu shot in 2010. I started having hypoglycaemia symptoms even though when I tested my sugar levels were not very low. Gradually they got better but they always come back in March. I have stopped having the flu jabs! I had my sugar drops before meals but often felt awful just after eating till the food had got through.

  42. eileen kay March 11, 2017 at 3:30 am Reply

    sophie Have you go diabetes? Please get treatment for your hypoglycaemia.
    There must be lots of them in France. If you log onto Alexis Goldberg who is an ex patriot you will find lots of tips for people seeking all sorts of advice about living in France including reliable sources of healthcare. Are u living in a rural area ?

    • sophie March 12, 2017 at 5:00 am Reply

      Dear Eileen, thanks a lot for your advice… I don t know what triggers these hypoglycemia episodes after meals… neither do the doctors… I live in a city though… It could be part of ANS issues, or linked to adrenal glands. I have high cortisol in the mornings…or pancreas issues… thanks anyway. Hugs.

    • Madge hirsch March 17, 2017 at 3:25 am Reply

      Sophie is French though her written English is so good one might well think she was an Anglophone. The mechanisms for accessing healthcare here are different for native French and expat foreigners so tips from the website you recommend are not relevant for her.

  43. Kurt March 11, 2017 at 6:31 am Reply

    Wondering if someone can help….
    I have classic neuropathy symptoms which seems very similar to diabetic neuropathy. I’m not diabetic. It started in the tip of my big toes and keeps progressing 2 years later. An EMG test confirmed nerve damage. Mostly dealing with numbness in my toes and a general overall weird feeling in my feet that has moved to the bottoms and top of my feet. A loss of sensitivity. Hard to explain.

    Has anyone with nerve damage “confirmed by an EMG test ” EVER made a recovery? I’m losing hope. 😦

    Thanks for any info!

    • Bob March 11, 2017 at 8:54 am Reply

      I also have that started out with numb toes. I did not have the test because of overall nerve sensitivity. I have lost hope in the past but I am still determined to heal. I think the best hope is BX protocol but I can’t afford it. I am getting ready to start a program that reprograms the body to heal. Don’t give up hope. I will let you know if it works. I know this is horrible.

      • ursula March 11, 2017 at 9:27 am Reply

        Hi Bob, can you tell us more about this program.

        • Bob March 11, 2017 at 10:02 am

          It’s hard to explain. Google Advance Cell Training. It’s very popular with Lyme patients. If you are interested they have intro calls to get info. Subliminal codes are used to induce healing.

      • Kurt March 11, 2017 at 3:40 pm Reply

        Thanks for the reply Bob! Tell me more…is your numbness still progressing? When were you floxed?

        • Bob March 11, 2017 at 5:26 pm

          June 2013. It started out as numbness now it’s burning pain. At this point it is about as bad as I can stand.

      • Kurt March 11, 2017 at 3:41 pm Reply

        I’m praying for some healing for you, Bob. Thanks for the words of encouragement!

      • Kurt March 12, 2017 at 11:50 am Reply

        Yes…please let us know if this new program helps with your neuropathy. Thanks!

    • Garry March 11, 2017 at 9:46 am Reply

      Hi Kurt,
      My heart goes out to you and all the other floxies suffering so much.

      I am floxed now for 4 months and have spent hundreds of hours studying the mechanisms of floxing to find a way out of the nightmare. I have learned so much from the floxie hope website and am so grateful to all the contributors who provided a launch pad for hope! My protocol is multi-pronged and is dietary, nutritional, physical, psychological and spiritual and oh so necessary for me.

      I am taking high doses of supplements and regular IVs. I take over 45 supplements a day spaced every 30-60 minutes and I believe this has kept me able to continue working and living a fairly “normal” life despite the lingering neurological and physical symptoms, though there is no skiing or running or heavy work… it did not stop me from chainsawing firewood and shoveling snow off my roof though. Many other activities needed to be put on hold though.
      Some of these supplements have already been listed on other posts, some have not. Many I’ve never heard of before my floxing nightmare but will likely continue taking them for life as there is some pretty good health developments over the last 10-20 years. I am not a doctor so none of this is advice for anyone, but a sharing of things I’m doing. I have had to become a biohacker to survive the last 4 months and to continue to claw my way out of the nightmarish Cipro funhouse. Before taking anything suggested or referenced, beware, do your own research, and confirm with health care providers to be certain that it is right for you.

      Benfotiamine is a synthetic activated form of niacin, vitamin B1. It is used to treat diabetic neuropathy and retinopathy and other nerve damage.

      I started taking Benfotiamine for the last 2 weeks to reduce AGE levels. I don’t know if it might be something else, but it seems that my anxiety has been noticeably reduced since I started this supplement. I seem to be able to handle things better whereas before I would get flooded very easily and not self regulate well. Peripheral neuropathy is better too, maybe down to 10%, occasionally cycling up to 50% and then back down after a day or 2. We’ll see… Cipro has boomerang dynamics and jack-in-the-box surprises like no other, thus I don’t know if the trend will continue or if there is another horror behind the corner only 5 minutes away.

      Benfotiamine is an antioxidant that lowers advanced glycation end products (AGE) which are proteins or lipids that become glycated as a result of exposure to sugars. They can be a factor in aging and in the development or worsening of many degenerative diseases, of which Fluoroquinolone damage could fall into the category of degenerative disease.
      Oxidative stress can cause AGE levels to increase beyond normal levels leading to cellular degeneration. Like free radicals, AGEs can cause tremendous cellular damage, including peripheral neuropathy along with many other very bad things.

      AGE has been implicated in Alzheimer’s Disease, atherosclerosis, kidney disease, cardiovascular disease, stroke and other aging diseases. Quite the appropriate acronym for the stuff. AGEs induce damage by a process called cross-linking that causes intracellular damage and apoptosis. AGEs can cross-link collagen which can cause vascular stiffening and entrapment of low-density lipoprotein particles (LDL) in the artery walls leading to cardiovascular disease. Maybe it can cross-link and damage other collagen too, like in the tendons?

      AGEs form photosensitizers in the eye’s crystalline lens, which can develop cataracts. Reduced muscle function is also associated with AGEs.

      I wonder if the reason why we floxies cannot eat sugar is to keep AGE levels down to stop AGE damage?

      Wishing everyone full healing and wellness!
      Garry

      • Jeremy March 11, 2017 at 1:11 pm Reply

        Thanks, for writing about Benfotiamine, interesting. I’m gonna test this one.

        Regarding sugar, this might be a problem with our good bacterial flora reduction. If we have less of those, we can develop easy other opportunist pathogens like candida, and candidiasis when it become systemic.

        45 supplements it’s a lot. It’s difficult to say which one were the most influencial for you, but maybe you have a guess? Best!

        • Garry March 11, 2017 at 5:05 pm

          Hi Jeremy, I believe I need to take all forty plus supplements to stay stable and moving towards healing.  A couple of times I’ve run out of things like resveratrol and thyroid support supplements because I missed an order and crashed bad until they were resumed.  There are others I’ve had to reject because they made me feel worse or the conditions are not right yet in my body.  There are more to try because I am not out of the woods yet and I continue learning more about the situation.  I’ll post a list later if that might be helpful.  We are all different and respond uniquely to substances and dosing, so do the research and understand the risks and benefits… and also the costs.
          Take care,
          Garry

      • Jeremy March 11, 2017 at 1:53 pm Reply

        Garry: in addition, could you tell me what dosage of Benfotiamin did you use? I’ve found 300 mg Benfotiamin tablets here. Thanks.

        • Garry March 11, 2017 at 3:47 pm

          Hi Jeremy, true, I cannot be for certain whether Benfotiamine is what is helping with the nerves or if some other supplements are kicking in. I have been adding to my protocol one supplement at a time  to test the effectiveness and log any side effects. Some of them have obvious effects whether I’m taking them or not, like IP6/Inositol and CDP Choline which helps with brain fog and full body pain (which must be kept at bay throughout the day, several times a day). Other supplements are more subtle but I take them based on the theory that they are providing the conditions for DNA repair and mitochondrial regeneration and energy as well as eliminating free radical waste products (various antioxidants)… I am trusting the science for these since DNA repair and mitochondrial regeneration also takes time.
          I take Benfotiamine 2x80mg three times a day for a total of 480 mg per day. I just received a bottle of 300mg capsules and will try one or two a day. The bottle says to take one, but I weigh 200 pounds so might take two. According to the linked article Benfotiamine is used in Japan and Germany up to 1000mg per day with no side effects. “Theoretically, overdose with benfotiamine should cause hot flashes, bluish skin (due to rapid use of oxygen), tingling, and shortness of breath, but in practice, this just has not happened.”
          People with cancer tumours should not use Benfotiamine or B1 vitamins as it can feed the cancers. The linked article explains the mechanisms. 
          Regards,
          Garry

          http://www.nutritional-supplements-health-guide.com/benfotiamine-side-effects.html

        • Jeremy March 11, 2017 at 6:34 pm

          Thanks again for informing, Garry! This is very helpful.

      • Kurt March 11, 2017 at 3:42 pm Reply

        Thanks for the great info, Garry!

        • Garry March 11, 2017 at 5:01 pm

          Hi Kurt, Benfotiamine also has been used for treating Chemotherapy complications, Fibromyalgia, High blood pressure, Alcoholic Neuropathy, Insulin Resistance and Blood Sugar, diabetic neuropathy and retinopathy, diabetic kidney disease, and peripheral arterial disease.  Also need B6 and B12 to work together.  see link below.
           http://www.nutritional-supplements-health-guide.com/benfotiamine-benefits.html

      • Lisa March 11, 2017 at 7:40 pm Reply

        Thank you so much, Garry! I appreciate your insight very much!

        Regards,
        Lisa

        • Garry March 13, 2017 at 12:18 pm

          Thank you, Lisa, for all that you are doing for the Floxed and Forgotten!

  44. ursula March 11, 2017 at 7:14 am Reply

    • Lisa March 11, 2017 at 7:42 pm Reply

      Mercury fillings are definitely a problem. I just want to note though, that not everyone who has been floxed has mercury in their mouth – I have never had an amalgam filling. And, people who have amalgam fillings have recovered – including Ruth.

    • Jason March 12, 2017 at 1:47 am Reply

      It should also be noted, that people get too much Mercury from other sources, most commonly right in the Womb & Breast Milk from their Mother (proven by studies, and even the Liars don’t deny this), Vaccines (it is NOT all removed, see below) and Tuna and other big Fish, but there are many others. Also, Ruth is not completely healed and continues to have “episodes”, she has MANY fillings, and as you can see above from the video, this IS a big problem, especially when someone has full knowledge of how extremely toxic Mercury is to the body in the tiniest of amounts. She did a good job healing up to ~95% though just as I did, with too much Mercury in the body, so “that” is definitely possible.

      Regarding vaccines, for which Mark Girard (his children are vaccine damaged) took a stand for in the FB FQ Group and was basically shot down enough that he felt leaving was best.

      ALL multi-dose vials are mercury preserved. This is not talked about of course and is basically concealed, they just wave in your face that they removed Mercury from Vaccines, nope, only from Single Dose vials of many vaccines (except Flu shot which its still there in single dose full amount). The FDA website is currently pretending this is not so, but people can get the package inserts online and verify it is. Children are “supposed” to get Single Dose vials, but, the Multi-dose vials are much cheaper to give out and they sometimes run out of single dose, and again even when given the Single dose vials they still have trace amounts, which added up in 46 vaccines by age 6… the tiniest amount in one vaccine is extremely toxic especially to babies and small children, then combine that with the ridiculous amount of other garbage in there, other past exposures, GMO toxins in the food, and geez I wonder why Autism rates are skyrocketing? Doesn’t take a rocket scientist, or any scientist, to logic that one together folks. Protect yourselves and your loved ones.

      • L March 12, 2017 at 11:41 am Reply

        It is just so so hard fighting the misinformation from big pharma. Dare mention that vaccines have health risks and suddenly your pounced on by a pack of wild dogs and told you are likely wearing a tinfoil hat. And this, in today’s email: (in spite of already knowing the danger with the existing ones) http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/02/28/hpv-vaccine-tested-on-infants.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=ms1&utm_campaign=20170312Z1_UCM&et_cid=DM136367&et_rid=1923041054

        • Jason March 13, 2017 at 11:28 am

          Unfortunately they have done an exceedingly good job brainwashing the masses 😦

      • Madge hirsch March 17, 2017 at 3:50 am Reply

        I am convinced a 1999 floxing ( did not know about floxing then!) from which I had largely recovered was reactivated by the flu shot of 2010 as I was very unwell from Jan – April 2011 with many floxing symptoms. The odd thing was that I had been having flu shots every year without much noticeable problem but it was in 2010 that they first put the H1N1 strain into the seasonal flu shot . I had rejected the separate vaccination for that in 2009 and did not realise they had put it into the seasonal shot till later when I looked up the composition online.

  45. Jeremy March 11, 2017 at 1:48 pm Reply

    Hi Everyone,

    I wanted to say hello (1) and also share/debate some information regarding FQ toxicity – Fluoride Toxicity (2).

    1.
    HELLO
    This website is great, thank you. More rational and less scary than others. I think we need knowledge and optimism, cause we need to struggle with total life rebuild (for some years).

    My name is Jeremy and I live in Germany.

    In 2015 I was taking first Moxifloxacin 10 days (1x 400mg) and after 3 months Levoxacin for for 28 days (1x 500mg), so I think I can consider myself lucky that my case is not so severe.

    – the worst was severe canidiasis, however this could be eliminated in few months with proper die. Candida always developem when good bacteria level is decreased and immunse system suppresed.
    – right after second intake of RQ I went to Thai massage and unlucky lady made lot of push and pressure on mu left arm and this arm hurts to this day (more than a year), it’s something silimiar to unlaris neuropathy, however it’s more like injury with fq acompaniament rather than direct fq influence. This thing don’t want to heal. MRI shows nothing, neurologist said it will heal in 1month (6 months ago).
    – minor tendom issues (somehaw strange moves, clicks, a bit of pain, not much).
    – popping in joints
    – stiff knees (recently).
    – no neripheral neuropathy

    So, I guess I was lucky, although I still had and have prostatitis I could go to work, walk a lot and was sleeping good (after I beated candidiasis). I changed diet significantly for anti-candida and all my symptoms improved, amazing improvement for prostatitis (however 10% is still with me, same level last 6 months). Diet did not help for left arm nerve related pain, however it’s improving. Orthopedist (i live in Germany) recognizes fluoroquinolones and told me that it can takes 2 years or more.

    Why I got back here?
    We wanted to test with Urologist that maybe fluconazole (antifungal, I believe it’s difulcan in US) and I took low dosage 50m for 14 days. The drug had a bad impact on me and knees stiffness came back and some minor headache and more joints, muscle popping. Pain in the arm did not increase.

    Also something new is showing recently: red circle spots on my skin on legs and buttocks similar to eczega, however not itching. Was lucky to get quickly dermatologist and will have a biopsia from this… doctor said that might be rare type of eczema or candida, but it shoudn’t be serious. Does anyone had something similar?

    Thereforem, I started to think…. where’s the connection? and this bring me to the point nr 2:

    2.
    FLUORIDE TOXICITY.

    I know that the topics was discussed here and there, but do you think that FQ drugs related problems might be nothing else that Fluoride Posioning?

    How stron FQ toxify us? I think it might be connected with a previous exposition to Fluoride. I come from Central Europe and when I was a kid in 80s and teenager in 90s – all food in my country was organic. I could have been less exposed to Fluoride during my life and maybe that’s why It did not have such a great impact on my health like others here described.

    Why Fluconazole worked on me so hard and increase muscle-skeletal issues? I was able to find fluconazole on the list of Fluorinated Pharmaceuticals:
    http://www.slweb.org/ftrcfluorinatedpharm.html

    Looks like I was re-poisoned by fluoride.

    I’ve made a printable version of the tables, that we can show to the doctors:
    Index of Fluorinated Pharmaceuticals: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SN0D9n9pr59J-RQ-0L6-L4aKSMbttwnL8fT7lpKUfaM/edit?usp=sharing

    Look for the list of food/drinks that contain high fluoride, for example every tea have pretty high concetration in leaves, even “healthy” japanese sencha.

    I do wonder – shouldn’t be FQ toxity treated like Fluoride toxicity?
    This toxicity affects nerves, muscles and pineal gland (lack of sleep).

    The most important role in detoxification plays limited exposure to more fluorides. If someone does not know that and drink, wash, eat, take steroids, anestheasia, antifungals, etc. is re-poisoning himself.

    Maybe you already discussed this topic? I’ve seen that Jason was writing a lot about this, for example about re-posioning from shower with fluoridated water: https://floxiehope.com/comment-page-44/#comments

    What do you think? Is being floxed a fluoride poisoning?

    Appologize for my English.

    Stay positive, you can get healthy, but it can take 5 to 10 years for someone! Don’t expose yourself for other sources of fluoride.

    • L March 15, 2017 at 9:36 pm Reply

      Hi Jeremy (your English is great.) First, I did get skin rashes that went away. I think it was hives (one of around 30 side effects and certainly the least of my worries.) I certainly think a big part of it is fluoride poisoning, but I don’t think that’s all of it.

      I have been inundated with fluoride my whole life, with drinking water, dental treatments, other pharmaceuticals. I had actually been given fluoroquinolones twice before with no problem and on the third time all hell broke lose. I won’t go into it all again, but it was horrifying and I became extremely ill—was sure I was dying.

      I now avoid fluoride at all costs as one of many changes in my life. I buy distilled water and re-ad the needed minerals. I even make sure if I have a glass of wine it is from a country that doesn’t fluoridate. I do think the fluoride is a big part of the problem—for one thing it helps to breech the blood/brain barrier. But I don’t think it is the whole story, because I believe people were injured by other quinolones prior to the fluoride being added.

    • Debs March 17, 2017 at 6:51 am Reply

      I recommend this site Jeremy myself . FAQ you might find some useful information .

      These drugs were injuring people long before fluorine was added into the equation, although it is certainly NOT innocent, not by a long shot .
      For one , fluorine added to drugs enhances bioavailability of the active ingredient, including allowing far easier access to places it has not been not meant to go far easier crossing of the blood- brain barrier, thus can potentially increase severity / potential scope of damage.
      Our various injuries however, can actually be found in various drugs, in various patterns way back in time, right back past the original Quinolones back in fact to synthetic Quinine. All these drugs involved have one thing in common, the nucleus of the drug, the QuinoLINE ring, which is in itself inherently defective.

      Floxing is multifactorial IMHO, but there is something seriously wrong with that QuinoLINE pharmacophore, the nucleus of those drugs .

      http://www.myquinstory.info/fq-faq/

    • Jason March 17, 2017 at 3:14 pm Reply

      And never mind the direct Fluorine damage, which is worse for some people than others (likely prior exposure and accumulation key there), and the toxic effects of the drug itself, we also need to remember it is a failed CHEMO drug, that was designed to damage Cancer cell walls and membranes and DNA.

      Like other Chemo drugs, it does NOT have Laser sighting, and it DOES damage healthy cell walls and membranes let me tell you, and just that alone has wide reaching lasting effects that will keep people ill.

      I am 2 years out, I was healed to 95% at 5 months, I STILL have Magnesium issues, it is ongoing, but then Mercury damages me in similar ways that the Quins did, so that is a big strike against me until I get rid of that Plague.

      Oh, and yes, Fluoride alone REFLOXS people over, and over again, very telling. Tons of reports of people who can no longer handle even small amounts like in toothpaste, etc. Dentist visits? Yeah, people report HUGE flare ups and relaspes from that if they get polish with fluoride. Coffee and Tea, lists goes on and on.

      It is also very telling, that having a shower or brushing me teeth in tap water can make my Tinnitus louder, and flare my PN a little too. Thanks, fluoroquinolones & BP, never had those issues from Fluoride before.

  46. Jeremy March 12, 2017 at 4:52 am Reply

    Magnesium glycinate was mentioned many times as a good approach (400-800mg/daily).

    What about Calcium? What form and what amount is recommended from your experience?

    Thank you.

    • Garry March 12, 2017 at 11:21 am Reply

      Hi Jeremy,
      As posted so many times the most important mineral is magnesium.  There are other important minerals too.  Be careful with Calcium and do the research on when calcium is to be introduced into the supplementation.   The issue with magnesium is not getting too much, but getting too little and time is of the essence… magnesium needs to get into the body ASAP in as many ways possible.  There are many forms of magnesium and 3 ways to get it in: orally, transdermally, and intravenously.  I use at least 5 forms of magnesium and get it in me all 3 ways, in no particular order:
      1. Espson salt baths and foot baths.  Magnesium Sulphate.  Another way to get it in is if there are any natural hot springs around with high levels of magnesium in the water.  Soaking for several hours is soothing and helpful.  I am so lucky to live only 90 minute drive from one of the best hot springs for a treat now and then (it even has a cave to sit in and beautifule moutain views while soaking).
      2. Transdermally / topically with magnesium gel / oil.  Magnesium Chloride.  This is to be put on your skin which is then absorbed directly into the tissues.  MgCl comes from either ancient seabeds or from seawater.  Do not drink this one.  I find the ancient seabed one is gentler on my skin.  I started off diluting the gel with water but have been using it full strength for the last 3 weeks.  So far my skin has been holding up ok and only slightly irrititated, but some people’s skin is more sensitive thus requiring dilution.  The diluted solution also helps heal dry chapped hands from the dry winter.  Topical magnesium gets directly into the tissues, especially important where blood flows slowly like at the achilles tendons; this helps get magnesium to the tendons which are starving for magnesium.  I apply the gel 2 – 3 times a day, definitely in the morning after showering and in evening before going to bed and sometimes mid-day.  I find it to be very soothing and the pain subsides very soon after application, even during the application; the pain then increases as the day goes on, but then subsides again when I reapply the gel.  I apply the gel all over my feet (top and bottom), all round my ankles, up my shins, and on my knees.  I also put it on my elbows (inside and out), on my shoulders (these hurt for me too) and low back (which helps with spasms).  Then I put it under my arm pits since magnesium is well aborbed from here and also has some antibacterial properties as a deodorant (though I find that I need to also use a non-aluminum baking soda based deodorant too).
      3. Intravenously.  Magnesium Sulphate.  I started IV’s 1 week after getting floxed with a solution of Magnesium Sulphate, B and C vitamins, and antioxidants.  This was 2 x per week, alternating between glutathione (does not cross blood brain barrier) and alpha lipoic acid (crosses blood brain barrier).  Twice a week for 2 months, then one / week for 1 month, now once every 2 weeks.  These are administered by my Naturopath and they are very expensive, but very worth it as this is the most direct way to get the magnesium, antioxidants, and nutrients into the blood stream.  I am racking up my personal line of credit to pay for the iv’s and supplements because the treatments and the hope it brings is priceless compared to the horrors of Cipro.  Doing something, anything really, is better than doing nothing.  My approach is, if there is something more that can be done, then do it,  prudently, with care and caution, and research the risks, benefits, and costs.  This helps bring peace of mind and hope.

      4. Orally.  I take several types of magnesium orally because they do different things and are absorbed differently.  I space the ingestion into 6 periods throughout the day so that the body has time to absorb and deal with the doses, early morning empty stomach, breakfast, lunch, afternoon, dinner, before bed.  There are all kinds of ways to mix this up and I have not optimized the actual absorption or combinations, but this seems to work for me, though there is room for improvement.  Yes, bowels are a bit looser than pre Cipro, but I feel that this is to be expected and as long as doses are distributed throughout the day and there are several kinds being taken, then the magnesium is getting into the blood.  Added together, I take a lot of daily magnesium.  I weigh 200 pounds so make sure to adjust doses for physical size/weight and personal tolerance.  Note that there is an upper limit for magnesium intake, and very large doses can result in Magnesium Toxicity which can be fatal but is typically associated with renal failure or an inability to excrete excess magnesium through the kidneys.  If you search around on the net regarding magnesium there have been cases of Magnesium Toxicity and the number seems to be 5000mg primarily from laxatives and antacids.  It is difficult to get to these levels without diarrhea, still with several points of entry it is important to consider one’s health history and how one feels while taking magnesium to avoid ill effects.  Best to ramp up slowly to optimal levels.
      Magnesium Bisglycinate: seems to be the best absorbed according to literature.  I take 200mg pills, 2 in morning, 1 lunch, 1 supper for a total of 800mg /day.

      Magnesium Threonate: Developed by researchers at MIT as the only form of magnesium that crosses the blood brain barrier.  Studies have shown that magnesium helps with neuroplasticity and forming new synapses and receptors and is fundamental to learning and memory.  Magnesium Threonate is used as a nootropic to help people improve their thinking and processing abilities.  Brain fog and neurological effects of Cipro have been particularly awful and scary for me.  Cipro crosses the blood brain barrier and damages mitochondria in the neurons as well as the GABA receptors thus it is important to get the magnesium into the brain to help heal our best friend, our brain.  I take one 500mg magnesium threonate pill with meals 3 / day for a total of 1500mg magnesium threonate which translates to 105mg elemental magnesium (quite a bit less than the dosage that is listed for 1 pill because the threonate is the majority of the mass of the molecule).

      Magnesium Citrate:  We are told to watch out for citrate because it is relatively poorly absorbed and can result in diarrhea.  This is something to consider when choosing magnesium.  Nonetheless I have a tasty tropical fruit drink mix powder in the morning before breakfast and at night before bed for not only as a refreshing treat but also as a means to get citrate into me to help alkalyze the blood.  I use pH strips to test my urine acidity and I am often very acidic.  The citrate helps to alkalyze as this is an area that I’m trying to figure out better.  I find lemon juice is too acidic for my teeth and belly, while the citrate is pretty good.  This works out to 300 mg x 2 times per day = 600mg / day.

      Magnesium Complex:  I take one 500mg tablet between meals of a mixture of aspartate, glycerophosphate, malate, oxide, and glycinate.  Some of these o not have the best absorption, so I call this my quick and dirty mag.  I do not know the particular mix percentages but I found I needed this extra dose because my feet and ankles and body pain was a bit better with more magnesium and it helped reduce the crunchy sounds in my neck.  This is 500mg 2/day = 1000mg.

      So I take a lot of magnesium.  Total oral dose is 2500mg / day spread out over the day in various forms.  The topical adds more and the IV even more.  On IV days I reduce the amount of oral magnesium by about 1300-1600mg.  This is probably more magnesium than most people would consider taking and I do not recommend that anyone do this without carefully assessing and monitoring your situation with a health care professional.  My naturopath keeps tabs on me regularly.

      Other things to consider are vitamin D and potassium.  I take 15000 iu D per day.  My naturopath told me that the blood tests are very poor at accurately determining blood D levels, so I just take the D.  Potassium is very important too with such high levels of magnesium.  A couple of weeks ago I crashed bad with muscle pain, weakness, nausea, confusion which was not responding to my regular interventions, then I recalled that potassium needs to be balanced with magnesium.  I started to take potassium citrate pills and this new jack-in-the-box crisis went away.  Again the citrate helps to alkalyze the body, but be very very extra careful with potassium because too much potassium can lead to dangerous and possibly deadly changes to heart rhythms.  Potassium is very important.  Do not take too much potassium.  Take just enough to keep the muscles and heart functioning correctly because too little is bad too. Potassium is the Goldilocks mineral which has to be just right.

      Sodium is another one to carefully monitor.  I can tell when I have too much sodium because my feet and even my whole body starts to hurt more from taking on extra water into the tissues.  When this happens, I cut back on the sodium.

      Now on to calcium.  This one is very contraversial.  Maybe Cipro leaches out calcium as well as magnesium, however, the North American diet is typically way higher in calcium than in magnesium.  If you go into any drug store the shelves seems to be stocked 10 calcium to 1 magnesium.  Weird.  The proponents of the magnesium advocacy group believe that the overabundance of calcium is responsible for osteoporosis, not the lack of it.  According to some, when Cipro leaches the magnesium out of the cells it gets replaced with available calcium.  The cells become calcified and this also leads to cell death.  The high levels of magnesium supplementation is to saturate the cells so that the calcification can be drawn out of the cells.  That is why magnesium supplementation needs to go on for an extended period of time at relatively high doses.  It is not enough to just get the magnesium blood levels up.  That is just the beginning.  The calcium needs to be drawn out of places it is not supposed to be.  Calcium could even be responsible for the crunchy sounds in my neck which seem to have gone away when I increased my magnesium levels to such high doses.  I do not take any calcium supplements at all, other than what is in my multivitamin and what I get from my diet.  There is likely more calcium in my cells and joints which needs to get out, not in.  One day I might find that I might need to supplement with it, but for now it is zero calcium for me until cells have sufficiently decalcified.  Some people’s situations might require calcium supplementation, thus this needs to be considered on a case by case basis by a health professional.

      I apologize for my lengthy and wordy post, so much to write, but so little time.
      Happy Healing!
      Garry

      • Jeremy March 12, 2017 at 1:58 pm Reply

        Garry, amazing job, thank you very much for explaining the calcium-magnesium connection.

        ad 1. Epsom Salt magnesium: I don’t have a bath, only shower. Do you think foot bath only also can be helpful? How often? For how long? I had Epsom salt some time ago and it was written 20 minutes. You’re inded lucky with the host springs! Nice.

        ad 2. Magnesium gel: I have Ancient Minerals Magnesium Gel, it is irritating and itching my skin after application, but less with every next application. I do wonder though as you’ve wrote: “I apply the gel 2 – 3 times a day, definitely in the morning after showering and in evening before going to bed and sometimes mid-day.” Isn’t your skin sticky and wet after appling the gel? My tactic was to apply gel and after 20-30 min go to shower to flush it because I couldn’t wear any clothes on the gel. Maybe I’m applying to much? As I see, in your opinion, it also makes sense to apply magnesium gel also on the areas that do not hurt at the moment? Just to get higher overall absorbtion into body, am I right?

        ad.3. For now I was takich only Mg Malate around 400mg / daily, however my FQ toxicty is not so sever as the others. I will go for Mg Threonate and Mg Glycinate now in twice-triple total amount. 1200mg.

        Best wishes from Germany!

      • Jeremy March 12, 2017 at 2:03 pm Reply

        …last point should be ad 4 and not ad 3.

        + one more thought: any experience in Magnesiun Gel vs Magnesium Oil for transdermally use?

        • Garry March 12, 2017 at 6:21 pm

          Greetings from Canada, Jeremy!
          If you don’t have a bathtub, then footbaths are fine too.  What I’ve done is setup 2 basins, 1 with hot water and epson salts and 1 with cold water.  Start with the cold and end with cold.  30 seconds cold and 3 minutes hot.  Do this as often as you need to get inflammation down and blood flowing.  I don’t do this enough since it is time consuming, but so is everything else.  I’ve got a lot on my plate, lot’s of people counting on me, so it is so important to get this healing done.  Cipro sure has thrown a wrench into the life machine!
          Magnesium gel and oil are the same thing, basically magnesium choride brine.  I have Natural Calm magnesium gel made from sea water and AllVia magnesium gel made from the ancient Zechstein sea salt.  The AllVia feels a little less harsh than the Calm, but I’ve been using both full strength lately.  Sometimes I’ll dilute the Calm with some water.  I put it on the sore spots but also in high absorption areas like the inside of elbows and under the arms to get it into the blood stream.  These high absorption areas are also the reason not to use aluminum anti-perspirants to avoid absorbing aluminum into the body.  Seems so obvious now, but I’ve foolishly used aluminum antiperspirants for years… and people wonder why there is so much dementia and alzheimers nowadays.
          The gel is irritating and itching a bit, but I’ve gotten used to it and I accept the nuisance of the gel as part of the sacrifices that need to be made on the road to healing.  I might need to find a way to cycle the dose with diluted gel for a day or two and then back onto the full strength in order to give the skin a rest.  Once I put it on, I leave it on until showering.  If I’m using diluted then it seems to dry pretty well after a few minutes.  If I use full strength then it can stay sticky for a bit, but even so, it seems to dry after a while.  I do notice that my feet can remain a bit sticky longer, probably because I am sweating in my shoes, but I don’t think this is a bad thing since the moisture would allow more of the salt to absorb through the skin.  Since it is winter here, I cover up with long underwear after the magnesium application on my knees, shins, ankles and then use some socks.

          Some people get headaches from threonate, so read up on it and watch for side effects while testing it out to see what your optimal dose is.

          I also take Curcumin to take inflammation down in my feet, typically 133.3 mg Longvida Optimized Curcumin 6 times a day, spread out through the day.  Makes a difference.  Curcumin has so many benefits that it is hard to list including, anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, neuroprotective, stimulates neurogenesis, protects against stress, depression, metal toxicity, fluoride, increases anti-oxidant activity, anti-inflammatory, anti-aging, reduces effects of oxidative stress, helps with dry eye, and so many more benefits.  There are also risks to be considered too, thus important to review before taking anything.
          Cheers!

        • Jeremy March 13, 2017 at 10:33 am

          Good hint regarding cold and warm water mix to bring more blood flow.

          Ortophedic doctor told me that one of the options to speed up a healing of tendoms is to make it cold (with an ice or cold water) and than hot to bring blood flow, again cold and again hot, bust most important is to end with hot water. This doctor acknowledges FQ toxicity, but also said that there’s no medical protocol, yet. I didn’t proceed with this continiously so I can’t say if this helps or not.

          Oil vs Gel: is oil also so itchy? I wonder if effect of oil and magnesium absorbtion is the same.

          Thanks for reminding about Curcumin, I was doing Tumeric Tea (e.g. https://draxe.com/recipe/turmeric-tea-recipe/ ) year ago when had candidiasis and needed to stop because die-off was so strong.

          As always, thanks!

  47. Jeremy March 12, 2017 at 4:55 am Reply

    I’ve made sharable list of Fluorinated Pharmaceutics:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SN0D9n9pr59J-RQ-0L6-L4aKSMbttwnL8fT7lpKUfaM/edit?usp=sharing

    Feel free to make a copy to your Drive.

    Might be good idea to show our doctors that we can avoid re-poisoning.

  48. Rich March 14, 2017 at 5:42 am Reply

    Hi, does anyone know if it’s ok for floxies to use clotrimazole cream for a rash?

    • Jeremy March 15, 2017 at 3:15 am Reply

      If you are not sure regarding any medication, and have at least check chemical structure if there is no Fluoride inside (F+ or F-). For Clotrimazole we have C22H17ClN2. No fluoride.

      However, this not exactly means that is safe! I’m not a doctor.

      I hade aderse reaction from Fluconazole (also antifungal), but Fluconazole is C13H12F2N6O.

  49. Ann March 15, 2017 at 10:12 am Reply

    Hi everybody! Have not been writing here for a while. Just wanted to say, to you that eat colostrum. If you take a Borrelia (lyme) test, it can show that you have a positive result. it did for me. I have been taking so many Borrelia test the last 1 ½ years, since i got hurt from Flagyl. Every test did show a negative result, until i started colostrum, it did show a positive result all of a sudden. I didnt make the connection right away. Then i read about it, and talked to my doctor, and she told me to stop take colostrum. And one month later i took a new test. And it was negative. So just so you all know, that if you eat colostrum, it can show a positive result for lyme.

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