Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




25,595 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Toby April 11, 2018 at 12:52 pm Reply

    I need dental work. Doctor wants to put Toxavit in my tooth. Could it worsen toxicity symptoms?

    • L April 11, 2018 at 1:32 pm Reply

      Uh, formaldehyde. I would urge you to see a holistic dentist. They use the most biocompatible materials and methods. I changed to one. A little more expensive than the last DDS I saw, but not by much, and so worth it health wise. (He also removed all my mercury fillings.) The “gold standard” is Huggins trained. This is a form to help you find a Huggins trained dds near you. https://form.jotform.com/71532518318152

      • toby April 11, 2018 at 3:29 pm Reply

        I looked. There is no Huggins/holistic dentist in my country. Is there any conventional dentistry treatment which couldn’t make harm? Any alternative option?

        • L April 11, 2018 at 3:52 pm

          I have no idea Toby. Did you try doing a search just of holistic dentists in your country, without that huggins site?

        • toby April 11, 2018 at 3:56 pm

          I tried. There isn’t holistic dentist here. What do you think, is Toxavit very dangerous for me? What are risks?

        • L April 11, 2018 at 4:09 pm

          I am not in the position to be able to advise, but I did find this (and others similar journal articles online: “However, paraformaldehyde is extremely toxic when placed in contact with the tissues of the body”
          (from http://www.jidonline.com/article.asp?issn=2229-5194;year=2011;volume=1;issue=1;spage=41;epage=44;aulast=Srivastava)

          I would just suggest you call your doctor–tell him/her of your concern and ask if there is a safer alternative. You might also call around to other dentists offices near you, explain your situation, and ask them what THEY would use…

        • toby April 11, 2018 at 4:14 pm

          Dentist told me that there are risks with toxavit. I said him about toxicity. I don’t know what should I do?

        • L April 11, 2018 at 4:25 pm

          I’d contact other dentists…see what other options are out there

        • toby April 11, 2018 at 4:31 pm

          What you think about local anesthesia? Which anesthetic is safest?

        • L April 11, 2018 at 4:51 pm

          People have different reactions. I did fine with septocaine.

        • Bob April 11, 2018 at 5:03 pm

          Septocaine knocked me down for a terrible relapse.

        • L April 11, 2018 at 5:55 pm

          that’s why I prefaced it with “everyone reacts differently”

    • H.Noordhuizen April 12, 2018 at 2:53 am Reply

      I found this information on Toxavit;you might (or: should) be interested:

      Click to access BoneNecrosisafterToxavitAdamStabholz.pdf

      Even the name tells the story: Toxa (toxine = poison) vit (vitae means: life) .Same goes for anti (against) biotic (bio = life)..The producing company is german,as is Bayer (Cipro).Strangely enough this is also the country where bio-food is very populair and they have a big marketshare in bio-food,here in Europe. And they have the “Reinheitsgebot” for beer ;-))

      • L April 12, 2018 at 8:25 am Reply

        yes, that was in the article I posted as well. This was my concern. breaking the word down certainly clarifies it! Hard to imagine there would not be safer alternatives. Tony—exactly what is this being used for? What is the dental problem? Please get a second (or third) opinion

  2. Andrea April 11, 2018 at 5:43 pm Reply

    Hey L,
    I’m answering you here, on the previous post. Yes, I remember you told me about your bladder issues and that crushed glass feeling. When I first went to the doctor who gave that poison, my symptoms were just some dribbling after urination. It was like that for more than a year and a half. After about a couple of weeks since being floxed, the symptoms got worse. Way worse. I now have to go to pee multiple times,day and night. I’m also suffering from urinary retention. And I also have that feeling of heaviness in the groin area. I’ve been diagnosed with a bladder neck sclerosis and a urethral stenosis, but I’m almost sure that the FQ has something to do with the worsening of the symptoms. Probably my bladder doesn’t work good anymore. Probably because of the neurological damage caused by the drug. Oh, you’ve mentioned doctors who are still prescribing FQ’s for minor infections. Just think about this…that dumbass doc who gave Plurifloxacin, already knew that there was no infection, nor he thought that giving me that s**t would’ve improved my symtoms. He told me so. He “just wanted to be sure”…these were his words. When I confronted him, and told him how bad I was feeling, he just told me that he acted according to protocol.
    That was his version,though. Because I spoke to a lawyer too. And he told me a completely different story. He said that there was enough stuff to file a suit against him (omission of details regarding the side effects, underestimated risks) but also that, without a proof of the damage (e.g. all my blood tests,scans,ultrasound,came out negative) he could’ve done nothing.
    That’s just so unfair. Poisoned just like that. Without even a reason,an excuse. At 30…

    • harriet April 13, 2018 at 5:25 pm Reply

      Dumbass dr always says things like that. They never read the side effects of drugs.
      I would sue him.
      Beware of these also.
      all beta blockers
      Lyrica, Neurontin
      Cox inhibitors.

      They have wrecked my life, I only took 15 mgms of Cymbalta and got a racing heart, spasms. Came off it immediately. Benzos, opiates are terrible drugs, in fact all are bad tbh. Sorry but legs burning and unable to focus properly.

  3. L April 11, 2018 at 6:10 pm Reply

    Yeah I had the retention too. maybe still a little but much improved. I KNOW it was the Cipro for me. Happened right after the Cipro…had an ultrasound that showed nothing. I am much improved in that area but after 100s of IVs and thousands of dollars in supplements, difficult to say what helped. Again, for immediate relief, the acupuncture and Chinese herbs were pretty effective. I do believe it was nerve damage related since I had SO MUCH nerve damage…to ears, nose, feet, hands, and maybe the cause of my distressed breathing.

    OMG I was just doing a search on Cipro and UTIs and a site called HEALTHLINE talked about taking it for the entire time your doctor prescribed it for a UTI. I sent them a scathing email. SO UNINFORMED! And this site is made up of doctors (and pharma people.)

    Yes the causation is the glitch in lawsuits. I ended up filing my own—beyond daunting, but I was able to find court approved expert witnesses who were able to link at least some of my side effects to the drugs. It’s difficult but not impossible.

    If you haven’t yet done so, you might want to try an acupuncturist, esp one that also does Chinese herbal medicine. of course, like pretty much anything that helps us, not usually covered by insurance.

    • Andrea April 11, 2018 at 6:25 pm Reply

      A couple of months ago, following your advice, I went to se an acupuncturist. I was lucky enogh to find a real good one, here where I leave. I’ve noticed that doing some electroacupunture, in the right spots, helps a little, expecially for that feeling of heaviness. So, after following his suggestion, I bought a TENS unit, and I’m starting to get my own tibial nerve stimulation for my bladder issues. I think it’s better than nothing.
      The problem with the lawsuits, at least here in Italy, is that, you can sue someone. In my case this doctor, but if they reject my suit, he could sue me for defamation…imagine that.
      After all the pain that scumbag caused me, I’d even have to give him money.

      • L April 11, 2018 at 6:35 pm Reply

        oh, that’s horrible. Bet it cuts down on a lot of lawsuits! We have things here that also cuts down on them…laws “bought and paid for” by the medical community. Things like caps on pain on suffering, which cap it so law that an attorney could easily reach that amount trying the case. Or the fact you HAVE to have expert witnesses…the only real winners there are the dueling experts who charge exorbitant prices. They usually pretty much offset each other, but again, the expense makes it less likely you will get an attorney to take your case.

      • Barbara Arnold April 12, 2018 at 4:08 am Reply

        Andrea, there aint not freaking justice as far as we are concerned. I tried to sue here in Spain. They wanted 20,000 grand up front and said even if I won my case the reward would be less than what it would cost me. I HATE THEM ALL. We all have to keep going and trying though because we never know what’s going to happen in the future.

        • Andrea April 12, 2018 at 8:47 am

          Yeah Barbara. I know what you mean…

  4. Barbara Arnold April 12, 2018 at 4:02 am Reply

    Henks, sorry no reply button. I found out about the European FDA meeting on facebook. I joined the Uk facebook for floxies. I am not going because I would have to fly from Spain and I’ve spent enough money already trying to beat this shit. But I am going to write to them. The only thing it may achieve is a strong warning in the inserts. I don’t think it will achieve anything else, but we have to keep trying.

  5. toby April 12, 2018 at 4:37 am Reply

    I went back from dentist. He said another option is Difurid which contains:
    1. parachlorphenol
    2. phenol
    3. camphor
    4. levomenthol

    Is this product safe?

    • jat92517 April 12, 2018 at 10:13 am Reply

      Phenol is a strong organic acid. It is toxic and banned for industrrial use by the EPA.

      What is the purpose of these things?

      John Taylor

      • L April 12, 2018 at 10:15 am Reply

        yes Toby please ask WHY you need these. What is the procedure? Then find a dds who will use nontoxic substances.

      • toby April 12, 2018 at 10:54 am Reply

        Procedure is tooth nerve removal.
        What nontoxic substances could be applied in this case?

        • L April 12, 2018 at 11:19 am

          Are you having a root canal? Because there is a lot of information online on why this procedure is not healthy. (It leaves dead material in your mouth that contains bacteria that can then travel to the rest of the body.) Personally, I had my teeth removed. https://drjockers.com/root-canals/

        • Toby April 12, 2018 at 11:41 am

          Yes, it’s root canal. Probably tooth removal is best option.

        • L April 12, 2018 at 12:04 pm

          If it were me, that is what I would do. (What I Did do.) I then got something called a “flipper” from my dentist—a little single fake tooth that I wear all the time (just take it out and brush like regular teeth at night) and it holds the space, so the teeth around it don’t move. https://www.google.com/search?q=single+tooth+flipper&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHkrfjtrXaAhUPG3wKHeC9AYIQ_AUICygC&biw=1038&bih=489#imgrc=DVtZdjzJciMbxM:

        • Toby April 12, 2018 at 12:24 pm

          Hey L, you know a lot about toxicity could I contact you by mail, or something?

        • L April 12, 2018 at 12:33 pm

          I really don’t Toby. I only gave you information I found online.

  6. Andrea April 12, 2018 at 8:59 am Reply

    Henk, I live in Italy. Yeah I too love cheese. But I’ve also noticed, even before being floxed, how detrimental it is for my health. That lungs thing you’ve mentioned, I’ve noticed it too. Lots of mucus. By the way, I’m not sure if I understood correctly your last question, but yes, I’ve compiled the application form, for this upcoming hearing. And if they’ll select me to speaking, I’ll go there. I’m curious to see what will happen.

  7. impossibleadversity April 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm Reply

    Hi guys. I haven’t posted in ages. I don’t have my priorities all together is the reason, and the last thing I want is to scare anyone needlessly, but I got hit in a particular way and never fully recovered from the collagen effects of cipro. So for this reason, I never even considered submitting something to Lisa’s site. Again the last thing I want is to scare anyone, so before I link this keep in my I got a nasty drug combination and poor genetics and environment conditions… but I did make this post: https://impossibleadversity.wordpress.com/2018/04/15/fluoroquinolone-ciprofloxacin-poisoning/ but it’s lame until I get more time and energy to fill the page. I hope to one day make a better resource about healing cartilage and tendons, but I had too many different health problems and had to put skeletal healing on hold, so I never went through all the collagen-related research I saved, and I’m probably out of date. Okay, so I hope you guys and anyone recently affected is holding up alright. It’s been years of me researching health conditions by now, and there’s still nothing quite like this. I’m so tired right now. Take it easy.

    • Andrea April 15, 2018 at 11:58 am Reply

      Hi. I’m Andrea. Being floxed in December ’16.
      I’ve read your post. Can you elaborate more on the nitric oxide topic. Expecially the part about greens and vegetables.

      • impossibleadversity April 15, 2018 at 6:10 pm Reply

        Hey there. Some vegetables (eg arugula) are very high in nitrates, and gets processed by saliva/gut bacteria and absorbed to store NO in tissues, and released notably on sun exposure (there are probably also less-studied effects on the gut bacteria itself). This is not as bad as consuming loads of arginine, but it can still cause problems, any NO can end up generating peroxynitrite and cellular damage in excess. You prevent this by taking enough ROS scavengers and antioxidants. The NO – when generated by eNOS from nitrates in greens (as opposed to arginine) – can actually be beneficial by increase blood flow to joints, tendons and brain areas and promote healing, but at the same time NO in excess generally lowers metabolism (this is contrast to improving thyroid function, which also helps connective tissue). It’s a mixed bag. I recall Lisa saying she was very on the fence on whether sunlight is beneficial, it’s very hit or miss, and this would be one reason, and most likely a lot of the people who read this end up on health-conscious diets and consume more greens than before, so it’s something to keep in mind.

        • Andrea April 16, 2018 at 11:31 am

          So, correct me if I’m wrong, in your opinion, vegetables are generally safe for floxies, but sometimes they can be tricky? Am I correct? Anyway, I’ve noticed that eating vegetables, even arugola, never bothered me. Actually I think it’s beneficial.
          What’s your take on antioxidant supplementation? I’ve read that many belive that taking antioxidants could be just a waste of money or even harmful…today I just received my bottle of S-acetyl Glutathione, and tomorrow I’m going to add that, together with some MSM, to my current stack, which is Vit.D3/K2, Mag.glycinate and Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA).

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 16, 2018 at 11:59 am

          As far as I know,and from my own experience, vegetables are perfectly fine. More than that: they are good for you,en might help to repair ( part of) the damage.

          But tea is a totally different story! I had a short relapse two times,recently,after just one (!) glass of tea. The first time it was Pu-Erh tea,known to be poor in fluoride (but it was a tea made quite strong), and the second time with black tea. This proves, in my opinion,that the fluoride in those poison-pills is the main cause of all the symptoms of this syndrome.

          And it means that floxies have to be very causious with every kind of food or drink that may contain fluoride. Does anybody know where to find a list of fluoride-containing fruits,vegetables and other consumable things? If not, I’d better do some research on this topic.

        • Andrea April 16, 2018 at 12:06 pm

          Not only fluoride Henk. Many floxies, including myself, became sensitive to caffeine. So, that could be the reason why you felt bad after drinking it. I’ve noticed that even small amounts of coffee, are no good for me. Anyway, here’s a list http://fluoridealert.org/content/fresh_foods/

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 16, 2018 at 1:11 pm

          Thanks for the list,Andrea. I think I’m quite lucky because I still drink my (double) epresso after lunch,together with some chocolate ( 86% cacoa; the most pleasant way to supplement for magnesium :-)) .In 2004,after a course with amoxicilline and metronidazole, I couldn’t drink coffee at all,and had to build up the amount very slowly. That was after 5 days of those poisons;then I had to stop because the adverse reactions became too severe.

          But this time (september 2016) just two days of Cypro made me stop taking it.No diarrea .Maybe because I still take 100 mg of Flecaïnide Acetate;makes your stool rock-hard and since then I have to take flaxseed every day,after I had a double bleeding in the guts.At the same moment I had a kidneystone that got stuck and gave me a bladder-infection, 39,9 degrees fever and, partly because of the bleedings,I only took paracetamole against the pain.

          In the hospital they did NO research at all but just concluded that one of the bleedings could be an infected diverticle My doctor perscribed me that Cipro after I bycicled back to her and by then she could have given me whatever poison; I was too tired of the pain and the fever to resist.

          By the way: when came to my doctor that morning she took my temperature with an earthermometer and told me that my thermometer was wrong;I only had 38,7.I disagreed and she ordered me to come back after noon with some fresh urine and MY thermometer. nd again,hers measured 38,8 while mine measured 39,9 (as did two other thermometers at home,one being an oldfashioned,very accurate mercury-filled thermometer.

          After a week I came back to her and there she was,with that same (broken?) thermometer.I asked her:”Is that a new one? One moment she stood there as struck by lightening and than she smiled because she remembered I’d forgoten to take my thermometer back home. She took it and just at that moment her telefone rang. And to my big suprise she pushed the (my) thermometer in my hand and asked:”Can you do it yourself? Than I can answer the phone”. Cute doctor I have,don’t you think?

          By the way,to my suprise even alcohol doesn’t give any strange reaction for me (and I’m glad;just discovered Vecchio Amaro del Capo and I like it!) I only drink very little alcohol,and only in the weekend. Little,for me,is one bottle of beer (preferably Rochefort Trappist 8 degrees,that’s 9,2 % alcohol) or a bit of (most of the time Italian ;-)) liquor. I drink it out of a little espresso,cup,filled half,or,max 3/4. I drink for the taste,not for the “toxification”. Might be that “normal” quantities will give problems for some of the floxies.Or so I read.

      • impossibleadversity April 26, 2018 at 7:12 pm Reply

        To your comment above: More or less. There’s no perfect food and vegs contain undesirable substances too, and I would treat high nitrate foods like arugula cautiously over the long run. Here’s a non-exhaustive article, they mainly worry about nitrosamines and such in this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5412236/

        Generally-speaking you can get benefits from NO/eNOS (the biggest being tissue healing, that’s its main role through increasing blood flow, and you can get temporary brain improvements as well) over the short term, as in months, but sustained high NO over time acts to restrain metabolism, that’s its role.

        To increase glutathione the clinically proven formula is simply to take NAC and Glycine (Mg Gly can provide enough). Theanine is also known in studies to increase glutamate availability for glutathione synthesis in cells, and surely Glutamine does as well though I didn’t read a study for that one. Buying it preformed is a waste, you can get huge amounts of these aminos for cheap from bulk supplement sellers (purebulk, etc.).

      • impossibleadversity April 26, 2018 at 7:24 pm Reply

        Any case, yeah “antioxidant” is a term thrown around and marketed loosely, a lot of supps are just wastes of money, but increasing glutathione and such is well supported in research.

        I don’t login enough to this, so I’ll just wish you good luck and hope you recover.

  8. Andrea April 15, 2018 at 12:04 pm Reply

    Ehy guys, I need some support right now.
    In the last few months, I was doing “quite good”. The aches in my joints never left me, but they were manageable. A little better as far as the bone pains. And the weakness-fatigue, was doing ok. But a few weeks ago, from time to time, I started to feel worse. I was almost sure I was facing a relapse, but, it never happened.
    Then, today, I wake up, eat something for breakfast, took a shower, got dressed and went outside for some grocery shopping. And then it struck me. First I started to get very weak, like a sugar crash. All the joints were kinda achy. Not that much, but a little bit more than the usual. The scariest part anyway, was that light headed feeling. I felt confused, dizzy, brain fog. It’s been a few months that I wasn’t feeling this way. I immediately, felt that sensation of hopelessness, desperation I was experiencing this summer, when my symptoms went in full bloom. I immediately went home, And during the ride home, I was already thinking about suicide again. Repeating to my self ” I don’t want to live this way for the rest of my life! “. At home, since I was experiencing that sugar crash, I ate something and felt a little better. But I’m still very scared. Sorry guys, to bring these awful story to you, but you’re the only ones that I can relate to, and the only ones that can feel my pain and understand. No one really seems to care. Most of the times, even the closest people, just defuse my situation. The worst part is when they tell you : “I think you’re overreacting. You need to see a psychologist, you’re problem is becoming a mental problem”

    • L April 15, 2018 at 2:42 pm Reply

      Oh Andrea, I am so sorry both for the relapse and for the lack of support. I had someone that saw me through the worst…and I was really badly floxed. affecting breathing, vision, major weight loss and gut damage…unable to walk without help, suicidal, paranoid, anxious beyond imagination. And even with all that, even though she was incredibly helpful there were times when she would almost mock me because of something I was doing/avoiding. EG I had horrific olfactory nerve damage. This is just beyond explanation, where all things asphyxiated me. I couldn’t walk outside. If I had to be driven to an appointment, I would have to hold something over my nose. The closest I could explain this is it was like if you were on an elevator, surrounded by open vats of bleach, and you could never get out. It was so outside our realm of reality—so twilight zonish—it was incomprehensible to anyone else. Now, while I still have some sensitivity, the nightmarish aspect is gone. And even I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. But if it had lasted there was no way I could live. I was already looking at suicide options, and desperately contacting experts around the country (and world) to see what I could do. So to be in that place and then have someone make fun of you for covering your face because something—anything —is asphyxiating you is so disheartening.

      I say all this to let you know that you are far from alone and also to let you know not to give up hope. I also was gasping for every breath for months and just wanted out. Now I am glad I toughed it out. If you have not done so already I highly recommend you find a naturopath or integrative doctor that does nutrient IVs. They helped me more than anything (esp. phosphatidylcholine, high dose C and H2O2 (you will have a hard time finding anyone who doest the H2O2 but find someone who does ozone.) It would be great if you found someone who has treated floxies, but if not, find a Lyme expert. We share many of the same side effects. As messed up as I was—-and I had over 30 side effects, effecting various organs and systems, and head to toe nerve damage) I am 90-some percent better, and back to doing most things I did before this poison got me.

      • Andrea April 15, 2018 at 3:52 pm Reply

        Thanks L, for the support and your always helpful advise. Thanks a lot.

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 15, 2018 at 3:02 pm Reply

      Hi Andrea,first of all:don’t give up hope!!! These relapses are quite common;had one myself yesterday/today. I took down a big tree with the help of my neighbours (even mij Polish neighbour girl of 3 years old helped a lot,in her own way :-)) and after I put away my tools,and ate a bit of pasta and sauce I felt to tired to even take a shower.Did that anyway,hoping it would help a bit,which it didn’tThis morning I fell terrible,and even had troubles with cooking my meal,and eating it.This went on untill later in the evening,and by now I’m Feeling “fine”. I hope that your nasty experience is shortlived too,and that things clear up in a little while.

      Do you have a glucose-meter,and do you use it when feeling bad and with hypo-/hyperglucose symptoms? I do,and to my suprise,even after the Sota Pulser once again helped me to stabelize my glucose-levels, I regulairly get a feeling of,most of the time,a hyper,and when I measure My gluc.level is alright. Strange;untill Cipro I could “feel” my gluc.levels way more acurate,and measuring confirmed it.

      I noticed that,most of the time,these strange reactions took place after eating bread,bought in a supermarket,and now,most of the time,I bake my own (spelt) bread with only whole meal flower (there’s a mill at less than a kilometer from my home :-)),water,salt and yeast,in the traditional way. This works a lot better for me,and knowing what’s in at adds to the great taste! Those feelings of being very depressed most of the time follow after a severe glucose swing,especcialy after your glucose was very low for a while,and are accompanied by trembling and a very foggy feeling (because of low sugar in the brains).

      I wish I could help you with your depression;I could give you my phone number,and emailadress to contact me for moments you need someone to talk to but I guess you’ll have people way closer to your home for that.I have a Skype account as well,when you want,I can make it a habbit to start Skype every day as soon as I woke up and keep an eye on it during the day. This might comfort you a bit???

      Ohh,I spent a holyday in Italy four times,and my italian friends teached me some usefull italian words (mostly the “nasty” ones ;-)). I like Italy,especcialy the south,but spent some very nice days in Toscane as well,as guest for a great guy called Gibeo.I charish the memories of those holydays a lot.

      When you’d like me to be there for you when you’d like to talk or chat with someone (and hopefully,feel better there after,just let me know;I’ll give you the data you’ll need to contact me. I wish you a quick recovery!

      • Andrea April 15, 2018 at 3:57 pm Reply

        Thank you Henk. I’m glad to read you’ve been to Italy and you liked the place 🙂
        Anyway, don’t worry, I think that just chatting with you guys, it’s more than enough to help me through the worst times, like today. Don’t worry about skype or anything else…Anyway I really appreciate your support. Thank you.

      • Andrea April 15, 2018 at 4:12 pm Reply

        PS I’m cheking out this Sota Pulser. Can you give me your opinion on it? I’ve never heard of it before

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 15, 2018 at 5:02 pm

          Hi Andrea,last check before going to bed I found your question about the Magnetic Pulser. I’ll try to explain in short;have problems with double vision and that is quite annoying while writing.

          My own experiences with the Pulser,and with the complete Beck Protocol,are extremely good;couldn’t live without those devices anymore. I’m so gratefull to Bob Beck for putting all of this on the web,and to the people who keep it there in his legacy since he died.

          I got extremely sick in 2004,while on 2 antibiotics (Ammoxicilline and Metronidazole), while trying to be of help for (one of ) my brother(s).He was in the hospital with leukemia (or,so he was told).I had loose stools for 3 years and extreme bloodglucose-swings during that time. By accident I re-found information about Beck and his protocol and decided to build his devices (all the info,electronic diagrams included,can be found on the web).

          For my brother it was too late,and a very good friend died in the same period(pancreac cancer),and I wanted to have those devices to offer them to anyone ,friend,family… if they wished to give this protocol a try because many had been cured of cancer,diabetes and other illnesses with this protocol.

          After I finished building the Blood Purifier (now: Silver Pulser),and the Magnetic Pulser,I decided to give the Magn.Pulser a try on my belly because of the loose stool (3 years).Not only did my stool get normal in 2 weeks time (!!!),but the I noticed that my extreme sugar intolerance disappeared as well. Still had to be carefull with how much slices of bread I ate (wholemeal), but,to my suprise;white flour was less a problem. It was christmas time and I ate a few panettone’s to celebrate :-))

          As soon as I got the money I bought the very well build devices from Sota. Russ Torlage,nowadays owner of Sota, became friends with Bob Beck after showing his more advanced version of the devices to Beck (who kept the devices as simple as possible to give people the possibility to build them themselves),and Beck gave him his personal permission to start building them on a commercial base.

          I own a lot to Bob Beck,and those devices,both the ones I build myself,with a little help of a friend,and the ones I bought later,from Sota. I used it 3 times with succes against hyper- and hypoglycemie after antibiotics,and for joint-pains and other “discomforts” after Cypro,and other causes as well.Most of the time with great success.

          After the death of Bob Beck to nice ladies got boxes full of documents Beck collected during his life,among them even documents about secret projects for army and navy he worked for,from Russ Torlage,and decided to make a website about this unique person and his protocol. This website is still under construction but everything you need to know to “build your own” (the words of Bob Beck), are there at the bobbeck website.

          I know only two websites in the EU where you can order those Sota devices; one is Mediverse,in Germany. There I bought my devices,but when a wire broke,still under garanty,they refused to help me. Contacted Sota and they sent me a new one without any costs. The other website is way better and in my country,but he’ll send to Italy as well.It’s here:


          Next time when I have contact with this guy I’ll ask him to put his information on his site in english as well;untill then,when you’re interested,I might be able to help you.

          Going to bed now;this double vision ( one of my Cipro symptoms) is making me very tired and,when I try to focus on text for to long,gives me a severe headache. Wish you,and other nightly readers,goodnight and sweet dreams.

        • Andrea April 16, 2018 at 11:53 am

          Sorry for your double vision Henk. And thnak you for answering me.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 16, 2018 at 12:25 pm

          Don’t mention it; we’re here to help and inform one another.

          Got this double vision for about 2 month now. I seems to be there to stay,but,untill now,there’s no improvement,nor does it get worse. It’s not constant,and sometimes it’s not there for hours,but on other moments it’s there quite constand and only disappears for short moments. I really hope that,better soon than late,it disappears permanently;photography is my greatest love and joy and walking in nature,with or without my camera, isn’t half as nice when it’s not possible to have a normal and sharp view of your surroundings.But I still have hope!

          How is your mood today? I hope you found your strength back. There are,after all, quite a few posts about and from floxies who,for quite a bit,or even (almost) totally recovered from being floxed. For some it took only a few month,for others it took years,but there’s always that chance that things change for the better. And in the meantime this syndrome gets more and ore attention,even in the world of aleopathic medicine, and this might lead to more research and,I hope,eventually a working solution for our problems.But repairing our cells (the mitochondra AND the DNA) is not an easy task.Let’s hope,and keep on hoping,and never give up!

          Just for a laugh: the first time I got this double vision I immediatly grabbed my wallet to take a look inside. Wauw;it worked. But then they made me pay twice as much in the shops.

          The best to all of you,and don’t forget that for now, a bit of fun and a good laugh from time to time might be the best medicine available.

        • L April 16, 2018 at 12:30 pm

          Just curious Henk, if it is double vision, or you are seeing two separate images? I had a some really bad vision issues…enormous opaque floaters, reduced visual acuity, tons of little black spots (more floaters) but ALSO I saw different images out of each eye. Not double vision, but different pictures of what each eye was seeing. My brain was not taking the individual views and melding them together…something we never even think of because the brain does it automatically (well, until Cipro gets a hold of it!) Anyhow, this aberration went away after several months. Don’t know if it was the IVs I was doing or it went away on its own. But obviously some sort of nerve damage (and I had nerve damage head to toe.)

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 16, 2018 at 1:36 pm

          L.,after my first course of AB’s (please,read my reply to Andrea),I got lots of floaters in y left eye. Not immedialty but some weeks later. This time my right eye is the main victim;it just won’t cooperate with my left eye and focus on the same place. So it’s a real double vision,and it’s not constant.My left eye is a bit less sharp as it used to be before Cypro,while my right eye ( the “disobedient” one) is still sharp. My near vision worse since the Cypro (both eyes) and I have some transparent and black floaters,but not as bad as I had from that first course. Took several years for that black floaters to disappear the first time but they almost totally did.

          By abbaration do you mean like in photography? Strange bands of colours on the edges where very light and very dark objects meet? And that,in one eye while the other gave a normal view? Wouldn’t surprise me at all that your brains got problems merging that into a normal view. I’m glad to hear that after several month that effect disappeared; seems extremely annoying to me.

          Well, I hope that I’ll get back a normal view in the (near) future; eyes are,in my vision,the main tool to navigate through live. Everytime I look at that beautifull girl, Rachael Leahcar on Youtube (she is so handsome,and has the voice of an angel,but lost almost all of her vision during the last few years due to a medical reason, I get tears in my eyes.Seeing her,singing for a large audience,all waving with lights (from their phones),but she probably cannot see this. She’s got everything to be happy except…. Look for yourself:

        • L April 16, 2018 at 2:07 pm

          I too have reduced vision it the eye that took the most damage…It went from 20/25 to 20/60. NO, by aberration I meant other stuff like the brain not melding the images. In addition to the enormous floaters (for a year or more it was like looking through gauze or a scarf. I did Can C eye drops four times a day for a year and they helped with that) I also couldn’t see a tv four feet in front of me. I had gone from being able to read print on the screen, to not even being able to make out who the faces were. Just a big blur. Scary. Thought I was losing my vision altogether. I also had what looked like little lashes come down into my field of vision And one of the scariest things was getting what looked like an electrode or some kind of electronic image, shaped like a backwards moon and silver. It was in the center of my vision, then moved to the side and then out. IT was there for around ten minutes and I was so panicked. That was during the first few months, and luckily never happened again. First opthomolgist I went to is “world reknowned” only he was so dismissive of the Cipro connection, I never went back to him. (He has also taking 20,000 that year from big pharma.)

          The floaters are much less, the whole brain/image thing went away. The main things now are just reduced vision and I still have slight sensitivity in the sun and under fluorescent lights.

          I just looked at the video of Rachel (Didn’t know her…I am in the US.) Yes, she is lovely and a beautiful voice. I never would have known she had a vision problem just from looking at her.

          You mentioned different drinks in another post. I had to stop coffee for over a year, but I have been able to add it back in. Yea! Ditto liquor. I normally have glass of wine and even the ocassional single malt scotch with no ill effects. Nice to have some normal things back.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 16, 2018 at 3:07 pm

          Wauw! I can’t even imagine what you must have seen during that period,and I’ve seen quite a lot of psychedelic movies. One of the first was The Trip (1967,the psychedelic light effects where created by Bob Beck,who later invented the Beck Protocol and the devices,needed for this protocol).How good to hear that most of this misery,in the end,disappeared.

          Watching the video’s with Rachel singing makes me realize my misery isn’t that bad (untill now),related to her’s. She’s so young;can you imagine being born with full vision and loosing it after 17-18 years? Might even be better to be blind from the first day of your live because then you don’t loose your vision;you never had one and thus don’t know/feel what you’re missing. And while I still have hope to get most of it back she probably won’t have a chance to be that lucky.

          I like a good wine as well,but as I only drink in the weekend,and only late in the evening, it gives me acid refluxes most of the time while I’m laying in bed,trying to sleep. And because I drink just one glass, sometimes two max, I don’t want to open a good wine for that;feels like a waste to me. The wines I have here can wait; good wines get better while bad wines get undrinkable. The more pleasant it is to open one of those good bottles when I have a visitor who,like me,appreciates a good wine.

          I don’t like drinks like gin,whiskey,or “our” dutch jenever; those,in my opinion,taste like they’re made for cleaning things. Got a good bottle of whiskey from a friend,two or three years ago,after I cleaned his PC (didn’t know it is possible to have that much virusses on a PC and still be able to start and run the thing. In this case it were sexually transmittable virusses; he got them by visitting “those” websites ;-)).Well,the whiskey is still here,and I’m still thinking about what to do with it. After Cypro I’m not at all in a hurry to open that bottle.

          One of the positive things of living through a period where there’s so much negative things dominating your live is,when you open your eyes for it,positive happenings,even small things like enyojing the first sunny days after winter,feeling the warmth of the sun on your skin,start to have an impact like never before,or,since a long while. You “learn” to have joy in things you,maybe,once knew but have,since long,forgotten.

          It puts your feet right back on the ground,where they belong,and things you thought were of great importance for being happy have lost much of that importance while the little things we all forgot while hunting after “the biggies” prove to be the things that really matter. A bit of sun, a beautifull young woman,singin a beautifull song, while showing us that life goes on and misery hapening doesn.t need to be “the end”. Or a glas of wine without getting sick. That’s what life is all about. I thank Rachel for not just bringing joy to my ears (and eyes :-)), but also for opening them.

        • L April 16, 2018 at 4:22 pm

          well said

        • Andrea April 16, 2018 at 3:35 pm

          Hey Henk, today i feel a little better, but still not good. Very angry. I’m so mad about this situation. I don’t think I could ever forgive or forget the person responsible for this mess. The reason why I don’t think I’ll ever heal, is that, even if my symptoms pale compared to the ones of some others floxies, they’re still so unpredictable. Some days I feel almost healed. No achy joints, clear mind, no fatigue. And my mood, immediately improves. But the next day…here we go again : pain all over my body, feel weak, dizzy. And of course I immediately feel grumpy and/or desperate. It’s a roller coaster of pain and emotions. It’s so frustrating and scary.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 16, 2018 at 5:00 pm

          Hi Andrea,I’m glad to hear that your getting better,though be it not as quick as you’d want to. But,like you write,part of the time you feel almost healed,and,when things turn for the bad again,you’re very disappointed and immedialtly starting to feel desperate again.

          Like I wrote L.,earlier this evening,best thing to do is to open your eyes for the small,but real things in life and live it by the day. Better be happy when having a “good day” without taking for granted that the next day,and the next will be good as well.By taking every day as is its not just easier to enjoy the good days but also easier to live through te less good ones.

          I took down my chestnut tree last saterday ( had to,but it hurts;I grew it from a chestnut Calabrian friends brought me from their own tree,years ago) and it took until this afternoon to,more or less,recover from the work. Well,most of the heavy work was done by my very friendly Polish neighbour (and his 3 year old daughter,youngest of 3 daughters,but also the most helpfull,naughty and possibly the most clever of the three.). That evening I was so exhausted,couldn’t remember to be that tired ever before.

          While,when I was younger I normally slept only 3-4 hours a night and my personal work-record was working 52 hours in a row,only eating one meal during the first half of that time,the rest of the time without any food. Now I know how it feels to have your mitochondria,and your whole body,heavily damaged by Cipro (probably mainly by the fluoride in the Cipro and related poisons.It scared the hell out of me to discover how my body has chanched for the worse after just four Cipro pills.

          A good thing to realize might be that,in stead of shunning people away from you by constantly acting,according to how you feel,try to keep your feelings for yourself. This might sound weird but This point of view has proven itself right to me several times. When you meet friends,family etc. and fill your time with them by talking about your problems their mood will go down and they no longer are able,or even willing to,cheer you up,being down,now, themselves,”infected” by your bad mood.

          On the contrary: if you stop expressing your bad mood,and theirs is a good mood,they will probably (try to) infect you with their good mood and help you to forget your missery. When you give yourself the chance to enjoy that moment it might last for long after you went home,as long as you can keep yourself from falling back into thinking how depressing things are for you.In other words: don’t make a habbit of being unhappy!! Take every opportunity that comes your way to be happy,and don’t let it get spoiled by thinking that it’ll only be for a second and missery is waiting for you right around the (and every) corner again.

          Took my melatonine right before your mail arrived and,still tirde from taking that tree down,I really need to search my bed. I hope there’s something in what I wrote that can help you get more stability into your life:an other point of view might change the way of how you experience things for the better,even if your health isn’t improving accordingly. Please,give it a try.And take the time to see the videoclip of Rachel Leahchar,look at all the people,waving those lights and remember that with the 10 % vision she’s got left she herself will probably see nothing of that all.Not now,nor in the future.That’s the way to go:use what you got and enjoy it ! Here’s the link (and I hope Lisa likes it as well and doesn’t remove from the group because of posting Rachels “message of hope :-))

        • Andrea April 17, 2018 at 8:28 am

          Yeah, you’re probably right Henk. But the truth is that I’m not a positive person. I was already this way, and now after being poisoned, it all just got uglier

        • Andrea April 17, 2018 at 8:29 am

          Thanks for your advice anyway, I appreciate

    • Daniela April 15, 2018 at 3:06 pm Reply

      Ciao Andrea, I hate that feeling! It ruins everything. Even though it is not considered :serious: it feels worse than even a torn tendon or other physical pains. You really cannot go outside or even leave your bed when it is bad!

      It could be labyrinthitis, vestibulitis, mal de débarquement, or something similar but unique to floxing. Doctors guess that it is the inner ear and then others say it is not the ear at all but in the brain. Anyhow, it will slowly fade with time (after a few years, hopefully you no longer care).

      The most important thing is not to get worried about it because that makes it worse!
      If anything I wrote sounds similar, I can go into more detail. The worst is at the beginning when you think you are going crazy, but it does get better.

      • Andrea April 15, 2018 at 3:59 pm Reply

        Thanks Daniela

        • Daniela April 15, 2018 at 5:19 pm

          Like Henk said, wheat/pasta/grains makes the brain fog worse.

          I take homeopathic cocculus indica when I’m really dizzy (2-3 euros a tube, I just use a pellet under the tongue).

          Try vestibular exercises (very slow walking looking up and down, or side to side, and the other exercises to move the ear crystals called Cawthorne-Cooksey or Brad-Daroff in English, and the Qigong practice called Beating the Heavenly Drum).

          Car/bus commuting and computer work makes it worse.

          Meditation is great. Even Youtube ones 😉

          Get lots of sleep, do everything you can to relax (aromatherapy, etc.)

        • Don Mowers April 16, 2018 at 6:22 am

          If any of you are interested in taking the homeopathic COCCULUS INDICUS do your home work. Reading this it doesn’t sound like what we are looking for. I repeat, homework first.
          Remember we are all here because we trusted the doctor and didn’t do our home work on Flouroquinolone side effects.

        • Andrea April 16, 2018 at 12:00 pm

          Thanks Don. I agree with you.

        • Tara April 20, 2018 at 6:41 am

          Hi Andrea,

          I’m following your post and I can so relate to most of what you post! I was floxed in October, 2016. I had the cocktail with flagyl and Tylenol, but before that I had many other antibiotics and steroids for sinus issues. I kept telling the doctors I was not doing well from the antibiotics and then kept insisting it was an infection and gave me more antibiotics. I had a total body crash- all systems down, felt like I was dying. I still feel like the “Walking Dead” but I continue to get up and try to live a normal life every day. Mentally, I am void and so far from where I was before. It’s like my personality is totally locked. Worst symptoms for me, but far, are the vision issues that have followed. Just awful. I was in prism glasses for over a year (Had to beg for them because, as you know, nothing shows up on an exam). They really helped to pull my nervous system together. I had perfect vision before this and now I have so much vitreous “noise” in my eyes that it makes seeing every day unbearable! It’s like I am in an underwater show all day, every day. The not knowing whether I will ever fully recover is daunting. I’m in my early 40s- a working professional and mother of 3 young children. I have a supportive family, but this has been awful and taxing on everyone. Just awful to live through. Like you posted, I was doing OK for the last few weeks- feeling hopeful the worst was behind me- but at the 18-month mark, I am noticing more mini relapses and I always get that panic feeling with the despair that is so hard to explain to others who have never experienced it. It’s like an almost immediate reaction to want to give up and not want to live anymore. I always have to talk myself through it. L has been a great friend to me through this process. I’d be happy to give you my email address or you can give me yours and we can email back and forth. I think having support from others is really helpful.

    • Ken ward April 16, 2018 at 10:11 am Reply

      Yeah nobody cares, I know the feeling…and what we have isn’t a mental problem…IT’S SEVERE BRAIN DAMAGE!

      • harriet April 16, 2018 at 6:14 pm Reply

        Please try to be positive.
        People do care. We care.
        That’s just for starters.

        Drs are emotionally switched off, they have to be really.

        Are you eating a proper healthy diet?
        Are you mobilising at all even if just around the house?

        My brother has Parkinsons Disease and he wants to live, it isn’t the end. You have not been diagnosed with it. I think that the drs are not willing to accept that Cipro did this to us because they don’t want a lawsuit on their hands. Please don’t give up. Keep strong. xx

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2018 at 4:13 am

          Harriet,has your brother ever tried CBD oil? There’s a movie about Cannabis and among other scenes it shows a man with Parkinson,severaly trembling. He rolls a little medical marijhuana sigaret which takes him a lot of effort,even lightning it is quite a struggle. And than,after just 2 or 3 tookes,the trembling is TOTALY gone.Is this the answer to your question about the spasms?

          You can take a look at Granny Storm’s list;a comprehesive list of links to articles about cannabis research.There’s info on neuropathic pain,Parkinson,and a lot more.I’m amazed at how much info this guy found,while our governments still shout out loud that cannabis is dangerous and has no medical use :

          Click to access Granny%20Storm%20Crow%202018.pdf

    • Ken ward April 16, 2018 at 10:32 am Reply

      Andrea…sorry for the lack of support, I am in the same boat, nobody cares and I also do not want to live like this, I’ve lost over 100 pounds of pure muscle I have severe brain damage…parkinsons and alzhiemers symptoms and two pages of other awful symptoms…I feel your pain BELIEVE ME! I wish I had words of encouragement for you…but I dont, this is unbeatable for me…and I have been patiently waiting for death…for ME death is the only cure! If one more dr ignores me I am going to LOSE IT! I wish you the best.

      • Andrea April 16, 2018 at 11:50 am Reply

        Hey Ken,
        I too wish you the best. I’m not going to write encouraging words to you, because I understan you. I know, how stupid and irritating some words may sound sometimes. But if you have any question, or you have anything to get off your chest, feel free to write anything. You wrote you lost 100 pounds of pure muscles. Were you an athlethic person? I was. I used to train 4-5 times a week. I used to run. I don’t smoke or drink. I use to have an athletic body. Now I’m flabby and many wrinkles have appered, expecially on my hands. And still people, family, friends keep saying that I’m just overreacting. You have all my respect, because, from what you’ve wrote, I understand you’re way more damaged than me, and, if my situation is bad, I can just imagine how terrible yours must be. I understand your pain, and I’m sorry.

      • L April 16, 2018 at 12:23 pm Reply

        oh Ken, it breaks my heart. You need to find an integrative doctor that will NOT ignore you. I was thrown under the bus by TWELVE doctors, including neurologists, GPs, cardiologists, gynecologists, rheumatologists, opthamolgogists—you name it. Then an ND literally saved me with IVs. Then I found an integrative internist, and an integrative cardiologist. They ALL believed me. They ALL will only use natural treatments whenever possible. The gut is a major link to Alzheimer’s, parkinsons, etc. I had lost 1/4 of my body weight, in addition to 30 other, some horrifying, side effects. It took a long time to heal my gut, but I did. I am now 90 percent back to where I was, and I thought for certain I was going to die. I WANTED to die for months and months. Please find medical professionals that are integrative or functional.

    • harriet April 18, 2018 at 11:02 am Reply

      andrea I empathise with you. These drugs are lethal. Just lethal. l

  9. Faisal April 15, 2018 at 6:11 pm Reply

    Hello every one,

    Really i feel tired from FQ 2 years from my life its hard

    Really we are like a family no one understand us from outside i hope everyone recovery im faisal from arab country jordan

    • L April 15, 2018 at 7:21 pm Reply

      HI Faisal…have you had any improvement in the two years?

    • harriet May 12, 2018 at 5:48 pm Reply

      Is this dentist nuts?

  10. L April 15, 2018 at 7:22 pm Reply

    Hey everyone…I just read a post re NO and now I can’t find it. These quick exercises, if you are able to do them, may be helpful. https://www.mercola.com/calendar/2018/fitness.htm

  11. Faisal April 16, 2018 at 5:35 pm Reply

    Hi L,

    Yes, there is a difference between the first year and the second year. Heartbeat The first year was 145 but now almost 90 and there is some improvement in the body, I hope to go back as I was before

    • L April 16, 2018 at 6:41 pm Reply

      Faisal—that’s wonderful! I know it may not feel like as much improvement as you would want, but it shows your body is going in the right direction. It was AT LEAST a year before I started hoping I might get back to being even close to normal, and another half -to- one year before I felt really hopeful. I still have some issues, some may be permanent…but last week I wend to an amusement park—something I thought I would NEVER do again, and I had a great time. (Scary and times, but really a wonderful day.) I get frustrated that I still have eye issues, olfactory issues on and off, numb toes and a couple other things…but compared to where I was, I am light years ahead. You will get there. Again, what helped me the most were IVs, Magnesium and healing my gut with probiotics, digestive enzymes and betaine hcl. (and I buy water without fluoride.)

      Are you aware of anyone else in your area who has also been hit by these toxins?

      • Andrea April 17, 2018 at 8:26 am Reply

        Hey L. I’m so glad you had a good time at the amusement park. I’m really happy for you.

  12. Henk Noordhuizen April 17, 2018 at 2:13 am Reply

    Today Dr. Mercola has an interesting article about antibiotics,PPI,s and other “medicines” that promote drugresistance among bacteria. Way more medicines than thought appear to influence your microbiome, and not only promote drugresistance but also cause allergies,astma and other problems.

    Giving babies PPI’s because they spit up their milk? This spitting up is,most of the time,caused by babies drinking their milk to eager and thereby taking in to much air. Or by mother’s not paying enough attention (app-ing etc.) while handling the milkbottle,letting the baby suck air in stead of milk. How is a PPI helpfull here? Read it here:


    My god; what’s wrong with doctors nowadays? They tell patients it’s all “between the ears” when they come with complaints about Cypro and other poisons with severe adverse affects but actually they themselfses have a mental/psychologycal problem: they think they HEAL people. Wake up,doctors,and face the truth!

    • Barbara Arnold April 17, 2018 at 2:27 am Reply

      Dream on Henk, they are far to arrogant to listen to the likes of us “THEIR PATIENTS”

      • Henk Noordhuizen April 17, 2018 at 3:58 am Reply

        Well, I think there are lots of good doctors. Among young doctors,not yet under the full influence of the Farmafia there are many who with a good atitude towards their patients and more and more medical students are asking for a more objective view of “alternative” medicines and technices, and to add these to their study.

        Things are changing. More and more doctors are getting more suspicious about the medicines they are allowed (ordered) to subscribe and are starting to ask for the raw data of the tests. More and more doctors are questioning the efficiency and the safety of synthetic medicines.

        I’m not dreaming,and didn’t for a long time (had some rude wake-ups in the past),but it’s still hard to find reliable informatiion and another problem is that,for people like me,who can’t afford gowing to alternative medics because my insurance only pays € 300 a year and I have to pay everything above it.

        That’s why I can only go to my orthodox doctor when I’m sick and now,knowing that both my doctors are lunatics (the male one a bit less than the female one which said she had never any complaints about Cipro,and worked,probably still works with a defective ear-thermometer) I discoverd that its quite difficult to change to another doctor. But I keep searching for a better doctor and I need an other dentist as well.

        • L April 17, 2018 at 10:26 am

          It makes such a difference having a doctor that not only believes you, but looks for natural alternatives. It took me a while, but I have found an integrative internist, an integrative cardiologist and a holistic dentist. I have to go to ophtomolgoists more often thanks to this and they ALL use Cipro eyedrops post surgery (something I hope to avoid). And of course I still see my naturopath. My trust in most of the allopathic community is close to zero.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 17, 2018 at 10:36 am

          You might ask to pass the Cipro (you have a good reason for that,don’t you?) and,instead,use ionic silver eyedrops. Dirt cheap and very save and effective.

        • L April 17, 2018 at 10:46 am

          well I would never do the Cipro drops. Hoping to avoid having any surgery. But when you talk to these doctors they are pretty resistant about using ANYTHING else. And I would bet there is no way they would use something like colloidal silver. That’ why I wish I could find an integrative opthomologist.

        • Don Mowers April 17, 2018 at 2:23 pm

          I’ll second the Ionic Colloidal Silver. I have use it for about 7 years now. I use it for anything and everything that needs sterilizing. Inside me and outside me. Brigham Young University lab testing has shown it to be effective to over 600 bacteria, viruses and funguses.

          I make my own so I know how fresh it is and what strength it is. If my gut does not feel right like I may be getting food poisoning I take an once an hour for 3 doses and the problem is usually solved withing a few hours. Colloidal Silver works and according to all accounts has never directly caused a death. Can you say that about prescription meds????
          I use it in my cat’s water to keep it from growing any algae or other bacteria. If they are acting a little off I ad a dropper or 2 to their food.

          I have age related macular degeneration and must take shots in my eyes to combat the leaking behind my retinas. After the shot the assistant washes my eye to clean up the betadine, then she has been saying … “Now time for the antibiotic”. I asked what the antibiotic was and was told Ofloxacine. I said no more….no way!!!
          Now I just wash the eye with Colloidal Silver for a couple of days after a shot.
          Do your home work. Ionic Colloidal Silver works!!!

    • Don Mowers April 17, 2018 at 6:13 am Reply

      My cynical take on the present medical profession. Doctors don’t heal they “TREAT”. There is no big money in it for the doctor or the drug companies for “HEALING” people. The money is in the continued treatment. Such a shame but it really looks that way. Past history has brainwashed the public into believing the doctor is a “healer”, when in reality he has been morphed into a “treater” by the profit hungry drug companies. Insurance companies are complicit. They (like my Medicare) will pay big $$$$$ for the ongoing treatment but refuse to pay for anything in the alternative medicine field that might actually “heal” the person. And I leave you with this. Winston Churchill said: “The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.”

      • L April 17, 2018 at 10:27 am Reply

        yeah, that’s the “icing” on the cake. We have to pay not just with our health, but then financially too, since most of the things that truly help are not covered by insurance.

      • Henk Noordhuizen April 17, 2018 at 10:39 am Reply

        As Bob Beck, the inventor of the Beck Protocol and the devices,always said: a patient cured is a customer lost.

        • harriet April 27, 2018 at 5:27 pm

          YES indeed, makes u sick!

      • L April 17, 2018 at 7:47 pm Reply

        very familiar with the colloidal silver. IT’s all I use topically on cuts, and my integrative MD had me on the liquid for a virus.

    • Tara April 20, 2018 at 6:51 am Reply

      Hi Henk,
      I wasn’t on Floxiehope for awhile. I followed your posts as I was reading through this because I, too, have terrible vision issues after flagyl and Cipro. AWFUL! I was in prism glasses for over a year because of double vision and like L, my eyes were each doing their own thing and sending different images to my brain. My eyes were completely blurry, except for the onslaught of massive floaters in each eye. I have been without my glasses for about a month now, which I consider a huge milestone. I could not have gotten out of bed if it was not for those glasses. They really pulled my nervous system together. I would literally shake and collapse without them on for well over a year. Then one day, I noticed that they seemed to strong and I tried to go without them. Now, as my nervous system continues to reboot, I have a lot more little relapses with other things. There are three prongs to the nervous system and all of mine were hit hard. Like you, I have a lot of difficulty focusing and my right eye is more problematic than the left. Sometimes, it’s like I can see out of it, but I have the sensation that it’s not working or that it is hollow behind there. This causes me the most distress. I can live with the other side effects- even the debilitating mental ones, but like you said, the vision effects cause me the most distress. I was floxed in 10/16. I also have a lot of soreness and stiffness at 18 months out. I’ve tried different supplementation and doing IVs. Can’t say if anything has helped or not. I haven’t really done well with altering my diet. I had to at first when I lost almost 70 pounds and couldn’t eat anything without it triggering my nervous system, but now I am OK with most things. Anyway, just wanted to write to say I understand the vision issues, totally.

  13. Barbara Arnold April 17, 2018 at 4:37 am Reply

    Well if that’s true Henk, I’m truly happy. Not true here in Spain though, even though my own Doctor believes me now because I was diagnosed by a Rheumatologist, with all of that, the health centre he’s in still dish Cipro out like sweets. Also I asked our local Pharmacy to warn people about the side effects, but he was told to ‘shut up’ by my local health centre’s Head Doctor. I asked the Pharmacist if he would prescribe fluroquinolones to anyone in his family, guess what the answer was…A BIG FAT NO. Okay for the patients though. In the little Spanish town that I live in there is an epidemic of “fibromyalgia” when I told the Rheumatology department in the local hospital here about ‘A Black Box Warning’ in the States, her arrogant answer was…”This is Spain, not America” They truly believe we are “Rare” even though I gave them evidence to the contrary, it was as if “What the hell do I know I’m not a Doctor, I got my information from the internet” closed arrogant minds. I have only met one Doctor that actually agreed with me and now he’s into Complementary Medicine.
    I think it will take a long time for change as these things do, but ‘any’ change no matter how small is welcome. I have spent around €10,000 trying to heal myself, I have no insurance either, they have a lot to answer for in more ways than one.
    Something positive to end on, The wine here is fabulous and cheap, and it does not seem to upset me as it does with some other floxie’s, so onwards and upwards. I hope your future dreams are wonderful

    • Andrea April 17, 2018 at 8:59 am Reply

      Barbara, after being in this mess for a year and a half, and delt with so many doctors here’s my 2 cents about it : I still belive in official medicine, I still belive that, when you really need them, you have to take prescription pills, they can save your life. Antibiotics changed our lives for the better. Desperate times call for desperate measures, that’s true. But I also think that most of the doctors today, I’d say 70 to 90% are just plain ignorant. And abuse this kind of prescriptions. They’re either ignorant, (most of them) curropted (some of them) but also so indoctrinated by the pharmaceuitical companies since they’re students, that they can’t think of any other treatment besides their precious drugs. Very few of them belive in alternative therapies (actually many of them are againts this kind of treatments) very few of them know about prevention (eaither with diet, supplementation extc.). This is just so wrong, but also the sad truth.
      Just another thing about FQ’s, since you’ve mentioned the story about your local Pharmacy. I’ve met many doctors, young, old, with or without experience, that took and are still taking Cipro and FQ’s…this would be enough to really understand how uninformed they really are.

      • Barbara Arnold April 17, 2018 at 9:29 am Reply

        Andrea, Thanks, I think your right about conventional medicine as long as it’s things like a broken leg or arm. Heart attacks, strokes, in other words well identified illness’s. I do think they treat symptoms for other things rather than look for the cause. If I had , say high cholestrol now, there is no way I would take a statin, I would change my lifestyle. Most women do not need statins. This being one example. Technology has given us knowledge, but it’s up to ourselfs to research, and research and then we are armed against this ignorance. This can only be a good thing and raise standards in the long run.

        • Andrea April 17, 2018 at 9:33 am

          I agree

  14. Don Mowers April 17, 2018 at 6:32 am Reply

    Might this be of some help to all us “floxies”?
    As is the usual thing. Access to it will be the big stumbling block.

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 17, 2018 at 7:51 am Reply

      Well,you better read the reviews at the end of this page. Very suspicious is the fact that there seem to be only two “tastes”; very critical customers,and enthousiasts,giving five full stars. I think the critics are real,and (most of) the enthousiasts are fakes.


      When you read about his supplements the recepy is simple: search the web for a long list of
      populair ingredients,mix them together into “your own,secret/scientific/super-effective” life-changing pills and create a story about secrets, curing all deseases people are afraid of. Don’t forget to mention that it works excellent agains getting old.

      I think this is a scam;have read of him,and his practices,some years ago.Do your research before buying anithing from this guy!

      • Barbara Arnold April 17, 2018 at 9:15 am Reply

        Well Henk, I rest my case

      • Don Mowers April 17, 2018 at 10:14 am Reply

        Just tossed it out there. As the usual saying goes “do your own research”. Then YOU decide.

  15. Barbara Arnold April 17, 2018 at 7:26 am Reply

    Hmmmmmm, don’t know, but call me a cynic. He say’s it’s free then wants money ???

    • Don Mowers April 17, 2018 at 2:28 pm Reply

      YUP. Bottom line is the whole pitch is is a sales pitch for you subscribing to his news letter.
      Buy his news letter subscription and you get all these “FREE” things.

  16. toby April 17, 2018 at 8:21 am Reply

    I wanted to try some antioxidant and took alpha lipoic acid about 70mg. Than I read on this site that it can be dangerous because it contains glutathione! I am very sensitive to supplements and can not tolerate most of them. Could it hurt me? What should I do now?

    • Andrea April 17, 2018 at 8:41 am Reply

      Toby. Yesterday I’ve received my first bottle of S-acetyl glutathione ( a more avaible form of glutathione). Many floxies have had glutathione IV’s and take it as a supplement. It is considered the king of antioxidants. Anyway, I’m not advising you to take it. I don’t know if it could be beneficial or detrimental for you. Or for me. But, I want to try it.
      I’m also concerned about the safety of consuming antioxidant supplements. Some say it ‘s all good, some say it could be dangerous (any opinion/suggestion/experience would be gratly appriciated), but as far as I’m concerned, what I have to lose? Tonight I’m going to try it. If it doesn’t bothers me, I’m going to take it for at least 90 days with some MSM (for better absorption and it’s good for the joints, with a very low grade of toxicity) and then of course I’ll let you’all know what happened.

      • toby April 17, 2018 at 8:53 am Reply

        I will stop alpha lipoic acid. You think this dose will not make me problems?
        I am using probiotic, D3 2000 iu, B6 40mg and started vitamin E about 40mg (but I don’ know which dosage is optimal for benefits). If I increase dose of this supplements I feel very bad. All other supplements which I tried made me worse. I don’t know how to heal this problem. Do you have supps intolerance?
        I tried coq10 15mg, and it helped little with anxiety but also had flu like symptoms so I stopped.
        On guy on this site reccomended me CBD oil? Could it help mitochondria repair? I am using mirtazapine 7.5mg, so I don’t know is it safe to mix these two. I want to taper mirtazapine, and CBD may help with nausea due to withdrawal.

        • Andrea April 17, 2018 at 9:32 am

          Well Toby, always remember that I’m not in the position to tell you or suggest you what to do, besides to be very carefoul with what you try (either supplements or therapies). I’m a nobody. I’m just someone who was poisoned by this awful drug and I can only share my experience. With that being said let’s if I can answer some of your questions :
          1 Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) : I’ve taken it before being floxed for 90 days 800 mg a day. It was a combo of ALA+B Vitmains+ 125mg of Citicoline This was the only supplements I’ve taken before being floxed. Never really bothered me. Actually I felt quite good while on it. Expecially the citicoline made feel very motived ( it’s a nootropic), and my libido at some point was through the roof (LOL, I’ve read that elevated acethylcoline levels can give you this side effect). Unfortunately I can’t take it anymore (it messes up my bladder so bad, it almost gives symptoms of overactive bladder ( cholinergics can also increase bladder contractions). I’ve noticed this side effect only after being floxed anyway.
          2 D3 5000iu+ K2 200 mcg. Never noticed any side effect. Actually I think it’s the only supplement I’ve taken that I’m almost positive keeps the pain inside my bones menageble.
          3 B vitmains. I’ve taken them in the past. Expeacially B12 (Methylcobalamin). Gave it up because i was quite sure gave me the same side effects of citicoline.
          4 Vitmain E. Never taken it. Be careful with the dosage, I’ve read many times that elevates dosages of vitamin E,like vitamin A too, can be dangerous.
          4 Coq10. Never tried it. I know nothing about it.
          5 Mirtazapine. I know nothing about it.
          6 CBD oil. I’ve tried it in the past. 10 or 15% concentration, I don’t remember. Seems to be very harmless. In my personal experience, it was helpfoul for relaxation and as a painkiller, but nothing too exciting. It was very expensive too, so I gave it up.

          I hope this helps you. Anyway, like I wrote in the beginning, always do your homework before taking any supplemets or before tring any new procedure.

        • harriet April 25, 2018 at 2:29 pm

          Toby Just a quick reply. I would get off the Mirtazepine asap safely. Have u seen Cymbalta Hurts Worse forum?

      • harriet April 27, 2018 at 5:31 pm Reply

        Andrea where did u buy it from? Thanks.

  17. Barbara Arnold April 17, 2018 at 9:09 am Reply

    Toby, there are a lot of CBD sights on facebook. You will get plenty of good information there. They advise to take CBD about 2 hours away from any medication. CBD should help with your anxiety as from reading your posts seems to be a problem for you. Also if you get Kerri Knox’s book she has a lot of good information about suppliments which I think will help you to stop worrying. Listen to your body and take it from there.

    • toby April 17, 2018 at 9:28 am Reply

      I will think about book. What mitochondria supplements you suggest?

      • Barbara Arnold April 17, 2018 at 9:38 am Reply

        Toby, I can only tell you what I’ve taken after reading and researching for myself. I have take Coq10 in the Ubiquinol form. I have also taken Mitoq but it’s extremely expensive and I’m not sure it’s any better than Coq10. You cannot suppliment yourself out of this. Also for most of us its time that can make a difference. Sometimes you feel worse before you feel better. Ozone therapy helped me a lot as did hyperbaric therapy. Both cost money , and I still get flares, but as there is no research on this we are all stumbling in the dark. Please also try mindfulness, deep breathing to help with your anxiety as this could possibly make your symptoms worse. Stress is the enemy.

  18. toby April 17, 2018 at 10:17 am Reply

    I just read about hyperbaric therapy. Is it effective in treating anxiety and mitochondria disease? How it helped you?

  19. Barbara Arnold April 17, 2018 at 10:00 pm Reply

    Toby it helped me with peripheral neuropathy, but it came back, not as bad, but it still came back, probably because I had a fall and compressed my spine. The ozone therapy also helped with PN and is supposed to help the mitochondria. For your anxiety the best thing in my opinion is CBD oil. Like I said there is a lot of information on CBD oil facebook.

    • toby April 17, 2018 at 11:42 pm Reply

      I think that there is link between damaged mitochondria and anxiety. So if mitochondria would be repaired, anxiety will lessen.

      • toby April 18, 2018 at 12:04 am Reply

        Are there some risks of hyperbaric oxygen therapy?

    • Don Mowers April 18, 2018 at 8:00 am Reply

      CBD oil. … I use it and can attest to the fact that it does work for anxiety. About the claim it is “great” for pain? I have not found that it is effective against my aches and pains but it may just be me.

      I am going to rehash this here because I feel it is VERY important. So many times people get something and try it but claim to get NO results. Many times it is because they are trying to use an inferior product. When it comes to CBD oil there are many, many companies jumping on the bandwagon and trying to sell CBD oil that is in effect WORTHLESS junk.

      CBD oil does not make you high like marijuana does. CBD oil effectively contains near zero THC. Yes they both come from the same “basic” plant but the the plant used for CBD oil is bred to not contain THC but a high level of CBD.

      First off many are selling it as a “tincture”. They are mixing it with other things and claiming it is better than plain straight CBD oil. In other words the CBD oil being sold to you is “diluted”.
      100% CBD oil is the right way to go. https://www.hemplandusa.com/
      Second is the way the CBD oil is extracted from the hemp plant. The cheapest way is to use chemicals.

      The correct way is to use the CO2 method of extraction.
      Hempland USA CBD oil is grown in America and processed in America.

      The following is directly from their web site. https://www.hemplandusa.com/
      Hempland USA employs super critical CO2 extraction to gently remove hemp oil from the aerial (above ground) plant parts for a number of reasons:
      By using super critical CO2 extraction we are able to preserve the natural constituents, that should be present for hemp oil to work as nature intended.
      CO2 is a natural molecule found abundantly in our environment. Super critical CO2 extraction means no harsh chemicals and no residual solvents.
      CO2 super critical extraction is safe and non polluting.
      After we have extracted our hemp oil it is again rigorously tested for pesticides, herbicides, fungi, mold, heavy metals and mycotoxins. We then blend our hemp oil extract with organic cold pressed hemp seed oil, and it becomes CANNABITOL®, a robust true full-spectrum hemp oil that utilizes all of hemp’s incredible health supporting constituents. Finally we bottle CANNABITOL at our state of the art GMP facility.

      The CBD oil from Hempland USA is rather expensive. A single 1 oz bottle of Cannabitol 500 costs $99.95. Yielding up to 30 doses. They do have a deeper discount for purchase of multiple bottles. Buying 6 bottles at a time will get you a 40% discount. 12 bottles would get you a 50% discount. A tip ……. Find someone else who wants to use it and together order the larger quantities for the bigger discounts.

      MY DISCLAIMER. I have no other connection with Hempland USA other than being a user. As a user I feel that the product Hempland USA makes is among the best.

      As I always say. ….. Try it for yourself. Do your own research.

  20. Barbara Arnold April 18, 2018 at 1:59 am Reply

    Toby I suggest that if you are considering HB that where ever you go you thoroughly research first. I went to a private hospital where they use it for diabetic wounds, and for cancer patients after chemo. We know that fluroquinolones pass the blood brain barrier, so what your saying is a possiblity. However from the begining I focused all my healing on the mitochondria, and ozone and HB are the only treatments that ‘seemed’ to help. But I am still not ‘cured’ just improved. Maybe my age has something to do with it as I’m 74 now, got floxed at 71. I believe if you are younger you have a better chance. But this is all conjecture.

    • toby April 18, 2018 at 4:34 am Reply

      Probiotic helped me a lot with anxiety. I had toxicity in july 2017 and took probiotic in november and felt much better that month and december. But as time goes on my symptoms are worsening.
      If probiotic helps, problem is leaky gut, am I right? I don’t know how to cure it. I tried colostrum, but didn’t see improvement from it.

      • Henk Noordhuizen April 18, 2018 at 5:21 am Reply

        Hi Toby,when probiotics help that doesn’t mean you have a leaky gut (although it doesn’t rule out a leaky gut). It probably ,means your microbiome is damaged by the AB. This is common,especialy after taking broad spectrum AB’s.

        Not all probiotics are born equally;avoid the cheap ones because most of the time they hardly contain any live bacteria and are a waist of money. A new development are the spore probiotics because they are better suited to pass the (very acidic) stomach. The name of this bacterium is Bacillus Coagulans,and a registered trademark is Lactospore.

        This bacterium helps repair the gut thus helps repair a leaky gut. It’s main function is keeping the gut wall healthy,and creating a healthy environment for the other bacteria. I found it cheap in a webstore recently (bulkpowders.com);their quality is good but the way they pack isn’t; big plastic containers for a handfull of pills isn’t very eco-minded.

        • toby April 18, 2018 at 10:47 am

          My probiotic contains:
          l. rhamnosus rosell-11 +
          l. acidophilus rosell-52 +
          b. longum rosell-175 = 11,5 billions

          If I double dose, or add another probiotic I feel terrible. I don’t know why.

          I looked about Bacillus Coagulans, but it isn’t psychobiotic. Are you sure that it could help with anxiety?

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 18, 2018 at 1:52 pm

          Hi Toby,you wrote that probiotics helped you control your anxiety-problems and concluded that this anxiety might be due to a leaky gut. If that is true,this sporebiotic might be of help because it helps your usual probiotics and works more permanent (because it is spore-forming).Psychbiotic? Never heard of that,and I never claimed that it would work directly on the mind,though it might do so,indirectly. Have you tried CBD-oil? CBD is known to be an efective and vey safe anti-psychotic. And Magnesium is not only a relaxant for the muscels but for the psyche as well.

        • toby April 18, 2018 at 3:18 pm

          I must research about sporebiotic. Problem is when I add more probiotics to my regime I feel very bad. What do you think about digestive enzymes?
          Psychobiotics are probiotics which could help with mood.
          I started CBD today. Going slowly. Tried magnesium chloride and felt worse.

        • Don Mowers April 18, 2018 at 4:17 pm

          Toby … Be sure your CBD oil is quality stuff. With so many different mixtures and knock offs out there you could be very disappointed with your CBD oil results if it isn’t good stuff. Read my previous post about CBD oil. I use it and do get results for my anxiety issues.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 4:02 am

          Some bacteria,and virusses,are able to form spores. This is a tactic they use when circumstances,for them,get bad. It’s a survival-system; spores are les prune to dangers like, in case of this spore probiotic, stomach acid. It’s like plants: when hard times come (drought,winter,etc.) they make flowers,and seeds. Most seeds survive the harsch times and start growing as soon as things get better.

          The supplementation of magnesium is,for some,problematic. Not always easy to find the cause. It interacts with calcium,Vit.D and vit. K2;when one or more os those is missing a magnesium supp. might,indeed,make you feel worse. Then,there are the different methodes of supplementing (oral,interdermal,even IV (might be very risky),and there are te different forms.For oral use magnesium malate,magnesium citrate and mag. bbisglycinate are the ones with better uptake and magnesiumchloride (salt/oil) and magnesiumsulfate (Epsom salt) are best for transdermal uotake.

          Best would be to first test for mag. calcium,vit D and vit K2 (magnesium must be intercellulair tested). Then you can make a plan on how,and how much to supplement. But best of all is to supplement by food,not by pills! That is de safest,and probably the most efficient way. To speed things up you could consider buying a good slowjuicer.

        • toby April 19, 2018 at 3:54 am

          My CBD isn’t expensive, but if it would work I will buy some more quality stuff.

          @Henk, As I remember you also had metronidazole toxicity and recover by some protocol. What thing helped you most?

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 5:01 am

          Toby,I had metronidazole and Amoxicilline at the same time,so,I can’t tell which of those was causing my problems. Probably bith did. The doc who recently poisoned me wit cypro reacted very supprised when she heard tha t someone gave me such an insane course of AB’s. Well; she,herself,needed only óne AB to do me way more harm than the other subscriber did with those two other B’s.

          After that course (I stopped after 5 days because it made me terribly sick) I had severe diarrea and also a sever intollerance for carbonhydrates. Send a lot of money on all kinds of “miracle supps” but nothing reaaly worked.The only thing that worked on the hyper- and hypoglycemea was a dieet with very little (whole)carbs,and no sugar.

          I had a loose stool for about 3 years. Only thing that worked a little was Ionic Silver (homemade).Then I decided to build the devices,needed for the Beck Protocol.Didn’t build those for myself but because in a very short period of time one of my brothers and a bit later also a good friend died of cancer,and during my search I found the Bob Beck protocol once again (had read of it years ago). I wanted to be able to offer other family and friend this possibility to try the protocol,in case the got seriously sick.

          When finished with building those devices I decided to try them on myself,to be sure they were save to use. Started with the magnetic pulser,on my belly,and to my big surprise,after just 2 weeks not only my stool was (almost) normal but my glucose problems were way less;I could eat 2-3 slices of bread without getting a hyper,and eve eat a peace of my favorite panetonne (was christamstime,then) without problems.

          Got a new “problem” then. All my life a was a “big” eater: a normal meal,for me,was 6-8 slices of bread,and a war meal,for me,was enough to feed a small family.And all this time I weighted around 57 kilo’s couldn’t even come close to,what’s called,a healthy weight. But now,with still restricted carbo’s,in fact,restricted everything,I gained over 20 kilo’s in weight. This started right after the AB’s,and during 3 years of loose stool.This was caused by my changed microbiobe (search Akkermansia bacteries).

          After Cypro I had the same hyper- and hypoglycemea problems. They disappeared after some days of magnetic pulsing but came back after a while because I stopped to early with pulsing. Then I descided to do the whole protocol,except for the silver ( to spare my microbiobe). My glucose level is stabile now,and I can even neat sweet things (like panetonne :-)) every once and a while without problems. The pulsing also helps with the tendon problem;it takes away part of the pain and in a way it seems to speed up the healing.

          Ik still,sometimes,use my homebuild magnetic pulser (has its place beside my bed and,when needed,I pulse while reading a book,before going to sleep.But as soon as I had the money,I bought a Silver Pulser,a Magnetic Pulser and a Brain Tuner (helps improve your mood) from Sota;those are very well-build and more convenient to use. I couldn’t have spent my mony in a better way,but that’s my personal opinion.

          And,once again,I want to urge: good quality food and “training” your cells to repair the mitochondrial damage are the best you can do to regain (most of) your health.

        • Barbara Arnold April 19, 2018 at 6:03 am

          Henk are your pulsers the same as a tens machine ?

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 6:59 am

          The pulses of the Silver Pulser have a very steep attack:That’s the rise from zero to full. This disrupts te outer skin of bacteria,virusses etc. Te magnetic Pulser does the same,but uses the metals in your body to create electric pulses in area’s which the Silver (blood) pulser cann’t reach.The Silver Pulser not only cleans the blood but,as the name suggests, can also be used to make Ionic Silver.

          So,there is some relationship. In fact,Bob Beck was,in the 70th,involved in research and development of Tens and related technics.,and bio-feedback. But the SP and MP are based on this research and patent:

          Click to access Kaali%205188738.pdf

          He noticed that,by his own research involving Tens, current needed was so low that it should be possible to deliver them through the skin without any risk for skin tissue and arteries. In fact,his system is way safer than the patented one from Kaali.

          The main difference between Tens and both pulsers is taht the pulsers are intended to,put pathogenes out of action,while Tens works on muschels and nerves. There is some overlap.

          The Brain Tuner works by stimulation of the brains with minute electric currents of different frequenties.I advice you to take a look at the bobbeck.com website for extensive information. There you’ll find an audio-lecture of Bob as well,on the Brain Tuner.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 7:03 am

          Read this,for a start,if you’re interested in the Brain Tuner:


          For more extensive information on Beck and his research and developements the bobbeck website is a must-visit.

  21. L April 18, 2018 at 9:30 am Reply

    Curious…has anyone had Fluorescein angiography done for photos of the eye, post Cipro? I need to have it to compare to ones I had about 10 years ago, and of course anything synthetic makes me nervous now.

    • Don Mowers April 18, 2018 at 4:37 pm Reply

      I have had Fluorescein angiography done twice recently. My biggest problem was that everything was “pink” for a short time after the test. At the time I was told that the IV solution was a “harmless” vegetable die. Now I question that since it has “Fluor” in the title. I wish I could tell you more but I don’t know more about the IV solution.
      Googled it. … Although commonly referred to as fluorescein, the dye used for fluorescein angiography is actually fluorescein sodium (C20 H10 Na2 O5). It is the water-soluble salt of fluorescein, also known as resorcinolphthalein sodium, or uranine.
      It appears that “Fluor” does not mean “fluoride”.
      Would it be OK for you? ?????????

      • L April 18, 2018 at 4:59 pm Reply

        Yeah, I found the same info Don. IT was the “Fluor” that got my attention, but it does not appear to be related to fluoride, but rather it seems its name derives from the fluorescent nature of it.

        I searched just now and (surprise) found a couple sites that said it was a vegetable based dye. But then I also found this “A member of the xanthene group of dyes, it is a highly fluorescent chemical compound synthesized from the petroleum derivatives resorcinol and phthalic anhydride.3 The dye was first synthesized in 1871 by Adolf von Baeyer, who later received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry (1905) for his work in organic dyes.” Baeyer. great.

        Hmmm which to believe…

      • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 3:00 am Reply

        Here it states that there are possible adverse reactions. To me,that means: safety concerns:


        • L April 19, 2018 at 10:43 am

          Yeah, I had read all that. My opthomologist keeps insisting he needs it to compare to an older one I had done prefloxing. I was reading however about something called optical coherence tomography, which is non invasive. I hope it is not just the machine my optometrist has because he said those pictures weren’t good enough. More research!

        • Don Mowers April 19, 2018 at 1:08 pm

          I have become very cynical about the medical profession. I sometimes wonder if the “procedures” they constantly want to do is based more on the money made than your good health.
          I have been going to a dermatologist. Nothing in particular. Just a routine body look over. I am scheduled to visit every 4 months. At each visit he comes rushing into the room with his trusty “liquid nitrogen” spray bottle. He goes over me and shoots over a dozen places with the liquid nitrogen. When I see the bill I find that he has billed $150 for “freezing 15 or more lesions”. He spends all of 3 minutes with his spray bottle. This is in addition to the billing for the regular office call plus my $40 copay. Is this really necessary or just to make more money? You decide.

        • L April 19, 2018 at 1:27 pm

          well I have no doubt that MANY procedures are done just for the money. In fact, I can’t recall now where I read it, but I read that CT scans are likely over recommended to help pay for the cost of the machines.

        • Don Mowers April 19, 2018 at 1:41 pm

          Come to think. Every time I have been to the ER in the past 10 years they found a reason to do a CT scan.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 1:50 pm

          In Great Brittain,a few years ago, was discovered that,of every 6 diagnosed cancers only one of those was necessary to be treated,most of them were grwoing so slow,or in a “convenient” place that treatment wasn’t at all necessary,and a remarkable part (I think I remember,it was about 20 %) wasn’t cancer at all. All these patients were treated with cancer-causing chemo and radiation.And in the rest of the world things will be hardly different.

  22. Andrea April 18, 2018 at 4:53 pm Reply

    Hey guys, I tried to post a link, andI don’t know why but I couldn’t. Anyway, it was about Glutathione supplementation and its risks. Here’s the interesting part : A quote from Dr. Mercola’s article on glutathione: “Glutathione supplementation can help people with immunodeficiency but only to a certain degree, and only temporarily—kind of like recharging a dead battery. Ironically, glutathione supplements may actually interfere with your body’s own glutathione production. The human body is programmed to self-produce its own antioxidant enzymes such as glutathione… And synthetic supplementation of these compounds actually signals your body to stop its own production – which leaves you dependent on synthetic substances…”

    • L April 18, 2018 at 5:02 pm Reply

      You will find differing opinions on this. My 2 NDs, and my integrative internist all swear by glutathione. I did many by IV.

      • Andrea April 18, 2018 at 5:23 pm Reply

        Hey L, are you still getting Glutathione IV’s or consuming glutathione supplements? Have you ever noticed anything from it, good or bad?

        • L April 18, 2018 at 5:39 pm

          when I got the IVs I felt more energetic, and just “better.” I recently bought the liposomal glutathione (any other supplement type mostly gets destroyed in your gut before it gets to where it needs to go) and I can’t say that I feel any difference. It’s been a while since I got IVs but if I went to get a Myers or high dose C I would likely get a “push” of the glut with it. I know there are some people (I have heard) that cannot tolerate it, but it was good for me.

      • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 3:13 am Reply

        Dr. Mercola does his research quite wel,assisted by a team of motivated people. Might even sell his own trademark of glutathione. So,when he warns about the possibility of unwanted effects,you better take that serius. Don’t forget,like othodox doctors, alternative therapeutes do try to sell you their “miracle” medicines too.

        It is a known fact that, by “helping” the body,sometimes it gets “lazy”. By taking laxatives you’ll stop the guts from working properly;they get lazy. And so is,with some hormones,like,maybe,melatonine. I think that some of those alternative doctors too,like to see their patients/customers back as frequently as possible,so,you better do your homework before trusting peole selling you stuff on their words.

  23. Andrea April 18, 2018 at 7:44 pm Reply

    Months ago, I did glutathione IVs once a week, for a total of 3. Nothing changed. Now I want to try this version, S acetyl glutathione with MSM, let’s see what happens…

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 3:45 am Reply

      When the IV’s didn’t work for you,glutathione might not be “your thing”.Remember;most of our symptomes are not caused by defficienties but by the damaged mitochondria of our cells;they can’t make optimal use of the substances they need,even if those are there in enough high quantities. And untill now,the only possible way to get those cells to repair the mitochondrial damage is,to force them to. This means;putting them to work.

      Try to be as active as possible,without overdowing (that might bring more damage). Build your activities up slowly. Like with healthy bodies you’ll notice that at first,right after the activity,you feel really exhausted,but,after a slower than normal recovering periode because of all the Cipro damage,you’ll feel more energetic. Use that energy in the best possible way,by continuing this process of being active,recover,and bit by bit feeling more energetic. Be prepaired for,possibly,some relapses but gain for the long term effect.

      I think there is no “miracle pill” for foxies. Might be better to take your bike and make a nice and calm ride through nature (don’t forget to take enough healthy food and drink with you). Maybe sit down somewhere and just enjoy the view,the smell,the sounds. Might be even more fun when you find one or more people to form a group but I,most of the time,prefer going alone,doing things in my own tempo. Don’t want anyone to hurry me when I take the time I need for making a nice photo or anything else.

      Just give yourself the opportunity to enjoy life,and,for a moment forget that lives isn’t all fun after being floxed. Probably the cheapest and the best medicine for people like us!

      • Andrea April 19, 2018 at 1:51 pm Reply

        Thanks for your opinion Henk.
        Some floxies found Glutathione very helpful..I don’t know. Anyway I’ve also started MSM too. It should have very few side effects.

      • Tara April 20, 2018 at 10:48 am Reply

        Hi Henk,
        I wasn’t on Floxiehope for awhile. I followed your posts as I was reading through this because I, too, have terrible vision issues after flagyl and Cipro. AWFUL! I was in prism glasses for over a year because of double vision and like L, my eyes were each doing their own thing and sending different images to my brain. My eyes were completely blurry, except for the onslaught of massive floaters in each eye. I have been without my glasses for about a month now, which I consider a huge milestone. I could not have gotten out of bed if it was not for those glasses. They really pulled my nervous system together. I would literally shake and collapse without them on for well over a year. Then one day, I noticed that they seemed to strong and I tried to go without them. Now, as my nervous system continues to reboot, I have a lot more little relapses with other things. There are three prongs to the nervous system and all of mine were hit hard. Like you, I have a lot of difficulty focusing and my right eye is more problematic than the left. Sometimes, it’s like I can see out of it, but I have the sensation that it’s not working or that it is hollow behind there. This causes me the most distress. I can live with the other side effects- even the debilitating mental ones, but like you said, the vision effects cause me the most distress. I was floxed in 10/16. I also have a lot of soreness and stiffness at 18 months out. I’ve tried different supplementation and doing IVs. Can’t say if anything has helped or not. I haven’t really done well with altering my diet. I had to at first when I lost almost 70 pounds and couldn’t eat anything without it triggering my nervous system, but now I am OK with most things. Anyway, just wanted to write to say I understand the vision issues, totally.

        • Andrea April 20, 2018 at 11:13 am

          Hey, Tara. I’ve read your posts. What you’re experiencing is really scary. Expecially how you describe your visual issues. I’m so sorry for you, like I am for everyone else suffering this nonsense…anyway I don’t konw about the email idea, It’s not that I don’t want to chat to you or help eachother, it’s only that I’m a little reserved when it comes to give personal informations on line. That’s the only website where I post, I don’t have a FB or IG account, but I’ll keep your offer in mind. Thank you. And feel free to sk me anything you want.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 21, 2018 at 3:38 pm

          Hi Tara,sorry for waiting;I’m experimenting with “my” methode of healing my mitochondria by forcing my cells to repair them. More than enough work in my garden,and pretty warm and dry weather,now. That makes me extremely tired and when I’m tired my vision gets worse.Like you,my right eye is the obstinate one. During tle last 2 weeks it seems to start behaving a bit better but my left eye getsw a bit more blurred. It might become “lazy”because I try so hard to get that right eye in focus.

          In june 2004 I got Flagyl,ans shortly after I suddenly had lots of black floaters in my left eye.It took quite a while or them to disappear, and the flashes,too, vanished. Well; most fo them. The rest of that story is somewhere on this page; it took me three years and some homebuild devices to get most fo my health back. Untill 9/2016; then Cipro did an excelent job of,once again,ruining my health.Reaction of my doctor: never had any complaint about Cypro. Read about battle witm me,aqbout her defective thermometer,as well:would be hilarious if it wasn’t so absurd to begin with.

          I posted a link of the audition of Rachel Leahcar here; she started loosing her vision a few years ago due to an illness (Retinitis Pigmentosa) and now she’s legaly blind,with less then 10 % of her vision left.The first time I saw this clip nothing was wrong with my eyes (except for some left damege from 2004,and aging) and when I saw all these people waving with teir lights and I realised that she would probably not be able to see this enthousiasm at all,it brought tears in my eyes. And with my Cypro experience,and still some hope left that my eyes will eventualy improve or I will at least not become blind on that eye,or even both,I feel sorrow for this poor girl even more.

          Nice to have contact with someone with the same vision problems;took a while before there was a reaction on my questions. When did your eye problems start? Mine did about 1 1/2 – 2 month ago,quite suddenly. The first weeks I sometimes had pain behind both eyes,and sometimes I had the feeling like somebody stabbing a knife in it (my right eye). Sometimes this pain comes back but he frequenty of these painfull moments is slowing down and I hope it stays that way.

          Do you notice any improvement? I hope so;your eyes are so very important (photography is one of my main hobbies.Reading is another one.).

          Well; would be nice to keep in contact; and I hope that, in the future you’ll be able to give me some positive news about your health and vision!

        • avibeast September 24, 2018 at 9:06 pm

          Hi Tara, After wearing the Prism Glasses for a year, did it really make a difference in your vision? I too suffered from visual issues after being floaxed.. Visual Acuity decreased in the right eye. Use to have 20/20 in both eyes before all of this…. Has your vision improved overall? Consider maybe doing Vision Therapy. I have been doing it for 3 months so far and I am seeing slight improvement. Hopefully I will regain my vision and my eyes will work together again! The goal of the therapy is to rewire the brain to get the eyes working together again

        • Anna September 25, 2018 at 7:15 am

          I experienced severe pain behind the eyes, followed by blurry vision for several days, thankfully that all went away. Now, I am just dealing with swelling under the eyes. I am not sure if the swelling is inflammation from an auto-immune response to Cipro’s attack or if the fat pad under the eye actually buckled from eye tendons tightening. I am 35 years old and take excellent care of my skin, so the change was very noticeable on me. Anyone else have swelling of bulging around the eye after Cipro?

  24. Barbara Arnold April 19, 2018 at 7:11 am Reply

    No reply button ?? But THANKS Henk. Will read through everything.

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 19, 2018 at 7:20 am Reply

      I’ve asked before why I don’t get a reply button.Untill now I didn’t get an answer. Anybody?? Please!

      • Andrea April 19, 2018 at 1:52 pm Reply

        I don’t know why you don’t get a reply button. It happens to me sometimes too.

        • Tara April 20, 2018 at 10:51 am

          Hi Andrea,

          I’m following your post and I can so relate to most of what you post! I was floxed in October, 2016. I had the cocktail with flagyl and Tylenol, but before that I had many other antibiotics and steroids for sinus issues. I kept telling the doctors I was not doing well from the antibiotics and then kept insisting it was an infection and gave me more antibiotics. I had a total body crash- all systems down, felt like I was dying. I still feel like the “Walking Dead” but I continue to get up and try to live a normal life every day. Mentally, I am void and so far from where I was before. It’s like my personality is totally locked. Worst symptoms for me, but far, are the vision issues that have followed. Just awful. I was in prism glasses for over a year (Had to beg for them because, as you know, nothing shows up on an exam). They really helped to pull my nervous system together. I had perfect vision before this and now I have so much vitreous “noise” in my eyes that it makes seeing every day unbearable! It’s like I am in an underwater show all day, every day. The not knowing whether I will ever fully recover is daunting. I’m in my early 40s- a working professional and mother of 3 young children. I have a supportive family, but this has been awful and taxing on everyone. Just awful to live through. Like you posted, I was doing OK for the last few weeks- feeling hopeful the worst was behind me- but at the 18-month mark, I am noticing more mini relapses and I always get that panic feeling with the despair that is so hard to explain to others who have never experienced it. It’s like an almost immediate reaction to want to give up and not want to live anymore. I always have to talk myself through it. L has been a great friend to me through this process. I’d be happy to give you my email address or you can give me yours and we can email back and forth. I think having support from others is really helpful.

  25. Ken ward April 19, 2018 at 3:28 pm Reply

    I want to say, I feel for all of you a human being should never know suffering like this! I have been hanging on for five years now, I have done nothing but get worse, I am so sick now I can no longer wait for death to happen on its own, god knows I tried, I won’t go into everthing except to say the nerve damage thru out my entire body and the brain damage has gotten past unbearable I can’t do this anymore, these are not the words of a man looking for pity these are the words of a human being who can no longer take the profound sufferring, I would like my whole body to be in tact for autopsy I refuse to go out in complete silence like my govt and dr would like! An autopsy is a MUST does anyone know of an dr who would be willing to help a person die with dignity? We have the death with dignity law in the state I live in the u.s.a. however since I have nothing on paper they won’t help me, I guess that’s the last salt in the wound from this nightmare! If anyone can point me towards a dr who will help please let me know, if you understood how severely cipro poisoned I am you would understand that sometimes a person is so sick that death is mercy, especially when there’s no hope of treatment or recovery haven’t even been able to get one dr to listen for 5 years as I get sicker and sicker. I am proud of myself for enduring this for this long.

    • L April 19, 2018 at 4:40 pm Reply

      I am so sorry Ken, and I understand all too well. When I was at my worst, gasping for breath, in excruciating pain, and barely able to move, along with just terrifying psychological crap, I wished for death every day. At one point I am pretty sure I suffered a heart attack in bed and I purposely did not call anyone, hoping it would take me out.

      I appreciate your desire for an autopsy. Not sure it would show anything, since these poisons seem to do their dirty work without leaving any indication of how….why so many tests come back normal. But good for you, for wanting to help shine a light on this scourge.

      What state do you live in? Perhaps you could get a better answer to your question. I also just want to throw this out there. There is a doctor in LA who was himself floxed and he does stem cell (from adipose tissue) now. He claims it fixed him. Who knows—could be worth a shot. I am guessing it is expensive, but if the choice is that or exiting this place, why not give it one last try….

      • Ken ward April 20, 2018 at 10:05 am Reply

        L…thanks for your response…are you saying they can’t prove anything post mordem? You asked what state I live in…that possibly you could help me with my question…I live in Washington state….I appreciate your other suggestions however I’m done looking for help. Sorry about punctuation…brain just can’t do it.

        • L April 20, 2018 at 10:12 am

          I really have no idea, ken if they could find anything post mortem. IT’s certainly worth a look of course. I asked what state you lived in because perhaps someone there knows of a doctor who could help you with your request.

      • Ken ward April 20, 2018 at 10:27 am Reply

        L…you mentioned all the test that show nothing…actually they have done many test…I have been diagnosed with interstatsal..cystitis…positive nerve conduction test in both arms for broken nerve signals…positive scan for thoracic aortic anurism …however they refuse to make the connection to cipro even though I had ZERO health issues before taking it…knowing that I am testing positive for multiple things known to be caused by cipro do you think they can prove it post mordem? My story MUST help others somehow…this CANT be for nothing. Thanks

        • Andrea April 20, 2018 at 10:57 am

          Ken, you’re a very brave person. I completely understand when you write that you don’t want to die in silence, without people knowing what really happened to you. I don’t konw you, but I think it shows how decent and caring you are.
          If you really want to go that way, I suggest you to write down your story, and I don’t know, try to contact a journalist if you can, someone who can speak up for you, since these ignorant doctors don’t even take you seriously. Maybe Lisa or someone in this website can give some advice in this regard, I don’t know…
          Now, of course I’m not suggesting you to do something that extreme (Euthanasia), but I agree with you 100%, when you say you want to die with dignity.
          As I wrote in a previous post, I’m probably suffering 100 times less than you, and I’ve already thought about suicide anyway, so I can only imagine how miserable this situation is for you. I have nothing but respect for you. Keep me, us, informed on how things develop.

        • L April 20, 2018 at 5:16 pm

          wow Ken, I really don’t know. All of my tests came back negative, and I was very damaged. Causation is one of the big problems in lawsuits, because so few doctors are willing to say “yes, this was due to the Cipro or Levaquin or Avelox.” Everyone is more concerned with protecting their own skins and those of their peers, than in helping all of us “collateral damage.” Who know what an autopsy would show. That’s a mystery.

          I too assumed I had interstitial cystitis as a side effect of Cipro. An ultrasound showed nothing. But the pain and pressure was unbearable…and for a period it felt like I had ground glass inside me. Acunpuncture and Chinese herbal meds helped with that. Most of my other damage (other than what I still deal with) was helped by IVs. I have now had over 100.

          You have to follow your heart. I don’t know what to tell you (although I wish you would consider stem cell or something else first.)

        • Bob April 20, 2018 at 8:11 pm

          Doctors will not admit to the problems of cipro because they have prescribed it so often.

        • harriet April 22, 2018 at 3:12 pm

          Ken Interstitial cystitis can be treated. It is reversible. Please try to get help.

    • L April 19, 2018 at 4:47 pm Reply

      (part two) the doctor I mentioned is a DO Mark Ghalili, phone number (424) 394-1610. There is also a place called stem aid in mexico that does embrionic stem cell, if you wanted to look into that.

    • Bob April 20, 2018 at 8:39 pm Reply

      KEN, did you ever try the Blu Room in Olympia?

  26. Barbara Arnold April 20, 2018 at 1:00 am Reply

    Ken, Don’t know what to say except so sorry you are suffering so much. Our thoughts are with you. Much Love

  27. Tara April 20, 2018 at 12:13 pm Reply

    No worries, Andrea. I didn’t want to give out my personal information at first, either. I only do when experiences resonate with me and then I usually email Lisa and get the email address that way. I noticed that we were floxed around the same time and I was doing better for several weeks and then when I hit the 18-month mark this month, I started to feel despair again and a lot of anxiety, worry, hopelessness, etc. I am so done with this! To be so disconnected from yourself for so long is just so maddening. AND to not have any legal recourse is just awful. I read one of your recent posts about feeling dizzy and having that sense of doom right away and I know that feeling all too well; it totally resonated with me because I have been there all week. So, I just wanted to extend the invitation, mainly because I feel bad about clogging up posts with my personal accounts. I usually take weeks to months off of this site and return periodically to look at new stories and then I read new posts. When I am feeling better, I am not usually on here. Misery loves company sometimes!

    • Andrea April 20, 2018 at 3:53 pm Reply

      Well Tara, it makes me feel good that you felt some form of connection when you read my post. And I agree with you, sometimes misery loves company 🙂
      But ehy, what should we do, when nobody seems to really understand or care?
      Anyway, if you really want to get in contact with me, and you’d like to exchange our emails, I’m ok with it. If you don’t mind, you give me yours first, through Lisa, in private, since I understand you know how to do it and I don’t. Is it ok?

  28. Marie - Sweden April 20, 2018 at 11:53 pm Reply

    There is going to be a hearing about fluoroquinolones in London on June 13th, 2018
    I saw it on the Swedish Medical Agency`s website. I suppose similar information can be found in all EU-countries..

    I am not a floxie, but knew a person who was prescribed ciprofloxacin a few times. That`s when I started to look for information about X:s medications (several – including cortisone and NSAID) and discovered that there were people in the U.S. called “floxies”. That was years ago (probably 2005).

    Here are some links (the first one is in Swedish, but there are links in English)



    Click to access WC500229781.pdf

    • L April 21, 2018 at 8:56 am Reply

      Thanks for getting involved even though you were not personally floxed. The numbers or horrendous…at least 300,000 dead and millions injured. If you have not seen it already, Lisa has put together a pretty staggering list of news articles, videos, studies, etc on the resource tab.

    • Andrea April 21, 2018 at 12:55 pm Reply

      Thanks Marie. I’ve posted the link about this hearing a few days ago. Needless to say, I’ve also signed up to try to go to speak there. They should let me know if they have chosen me or not, I think by the end of the month.

  29. Ken ward April 21, 2018 at 9:02 am Reply

    Does anyone have any suggestions of how a person can get a terminal diagnoses? I really need it on paper. Thanks Ken

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 21, 2018 at 2:53 pm Reply

      Hi Ken,I think that,when you have got positives for several Cipro-related problems but dr’s don’t want to admit it’s caused by Cipro, or a related AB, they will probably act te same after a postume examination,too. After all: you are the only witness alive. So,when you really want to prove your point, you will have to be alive;that will give you,and all the other Floxies,the best chance of proving you’re right. And with the upcomming conferences and public hearings chances are better than ever before to make a change.

      I understand your biggest problems are damaged nerves and brain? Well,actually there is a substance with a proven ability to repair nerve- and brain damage. Research showed that the brains of people with brain trauma after an accident healed faster and way better with the help of….THC. Earlier research lready showed that THC repaired brain damage faster because it speeds up the production of new dendrites (conections between brain cells),and it also makes more dendrites, which let some researchers suggest it might even lead to a (slightly) higher IQ.

      I don’t know how the laws in your state are at the moment;I live in The Netherlands,and,while more and more states,in America as well as other countries, are legalising cannabis here it looks like todays government is trying to break down our freedom of cannabis use. With a reason: GW Farmaceuticals, a company in GB,since a few years produces cannabis tinctures (patented!),and Bayer (yes;that one!) has,for millions of euro’s/pounds bought the distribution monopoly for the EU. But here,in NL,nobody will buy that expensive stuff;we all know the (way cheaper) source. This is even stated on the GW Farmaceuticals website. And Bayer is mighty powerfull here and in the rest of the world,as you can see with the merging of Bayer and Monsanto.

      If possible,you might want to give this a try: cannabis (tincture, or the buds) might repair (part of) the damage and at the same time helps lessen the pain.You will need cannabis with both THC and CBD. An easy way to safely (without dangerous solvents) make a tincture is with olive oil. Don’t smoke it: EAT IT.

      Click to access en_2013_01_1.pdf

      Whatever choice you’re gonna make,I wish you much strength. When you choose to stay with us and fight for your life,health and recognition of Cypro being the cause of your damaged health, feel free to contact me when you need more information. I’ll be there.

      • L April 21, 2018 at 3:05 pm Reply

        I looked through the article but found nothing re repairing nerve damage. What did you hear/read in that regard? I would love to find something for nerve damage, since that is mostly what I am left with. (and I am furious that Bayer has its hand in this too. I loathe that company.)

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 7:23 am

          Here some info on cannabis and nerves/brain repair:


        • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 7:28 am

          Another link here. And don’t forget: repair of nerves is a very slow proces. It will take several mionth,and 100 % recovery isn’t garanteed.


        • L April 22, 2018 at 9:07 am

          Thanks. Wish it was just the cbd. Don’t do well with the thc.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 10:08 am

          THC,with (too little or) no CBD might give paranoid feelings. CBD is a strong anti-psychotic (and still not syntheticly copied :-)) When you want to have the profits of THC without negative feelings,look,or ask for a strain which has enough THC to “do the job” but also enough CBD to feel good. Shops which specialize in medical cannabis will have enough choice to offer you the right strain. And it’s better to NOT smoke it but make an oil extraction like discribed in the publication I posted. Made “au bain marie” at 100 degrees celsius,in a good quality virgin olive oil is the superiour way because this will give you an oil with most of the medical active substances: all the different cannabinoids,terpenes etc.

        • L April 22, 2018 at 10:32 am

          yeah, I wouldn’t smoke it anyway. I have asthma, and “back in the day” it always would make me breathing worse.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 10:54 am

          When making oil isn’t possible you could vaporize it. One of my best friends has astma but it relaxes his bronchia when he smokes,and I heard that from more people. Doesn’t smoke marihuana but hashish; only during the last 15-20 years marihuana is widely availible here; most of my smoking friends are real has smokers. Hash is more pure. But,as I wrote,for medical use consuming the oil,made with the methode explained in that document,is the best way;nothing gets lost or burned.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 7:35 am

          And a med.cannabis centre that might be of help:


          A recent discovery showed that rats,which were given a very smaal dose of cannabis/THC at young age,and tweice more during their live, at old age still had the mental flexability of young rats while the contol group had the normal signs of demention/Alzheimer. I will post the link as soon as I’ve found it back (Mercola site?) but in the meantime you could do a search yourself (cannabis+alzheimer).

        • L April 22, 2018 at 9:13 am

          Thanks Henk

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 7:41 am

          A search on youtube will give you a lot of info because during the last years a lot of ducumentairies were made on this subject. One shows a man with Parkinson who has lots of troubles making a joint (cann.sigaret) because his hands are shaking. Then,after one or two little “sipp’s) the shaking is 100% gone. Amazing! And,knowing that the regulair medicines are far inferiour and have lots of adverse effects (and,of course,are very expensive!) one might wonder how on earth we can let so many peole suffer while safe and cheap medicines like cannabis are so easy and cheap to grow, while so efficient and safe.

        • L April 22, 2018 at 9:20 am

          That sounds familiar. And yes it is truly criminal that big pharma has spent so much time and money trying to either buy up or hide natural cures, and destroy the reputations of natural healers. They have been very successful for the most part. I know that often when I post something on facebook about a natural treatment or doctor, others will make “quack” comments. Total brainwashing.

  30. Ken ward April 21, 2018 at 9:08 am Reply

    LISA…I believe your the person that posted the end of life story about a friend of yours…can you help me in any way?

  31. Ken ward April 21, 2018 at 11:59 am Reply

    I would like to say, please remember my post apply to MY situation not YOURS, we all have different outcomes, my prayers and best wishes to all of you, I don’t know any of you personally however I am a lover of people and I feel great empathy, concern, and a great desire for all of you to regain your health, I also feel a connection to each and every one of you, we have all been thru something truly horrible and unbelievable and this connects us all.

    • Andrea April 21, 2018 at 12:58 pm Reply

      Ken, unfortunately I can’t help you, I don’t live in the US. Anyway I just want to say, that I feel a connection to you too. I understand your pain. I’m sorry. I’d like to say more to you.

    • L April 21, 2018 at 1:34 pm Reply

      Right back at you, Ken.

  32. Barbara Arnold April 21, 2018 at 10:48 pm Reply

    I have asked Lisa to post about the meeting in June with the EMA to discuss fluroquinolones, her computer is down at the moment so she will post when its back up and running. If you cannot attend you can email them at….publichearings@ema.europa.eu.
    They want to know the answer to two questions
    Treatment Risks ? …and
    Your opinion on safe use ?
    Ha ha, that should give you the opportunity to tell them the straight facts.
    If you are European please please email if you can’t attend and tell them your story. If we manage to get a warning the same as they have in the states at least it will be ammunition to give to those ignornant Doctors who have treated us so badly, and its another step forward in publising about these terrible drugs.

    • L April 21, 2018 at 11:28 pm Reply

      I am in the states, but I just send a LONG email to them, detailing all of my side effects

      • Barbara Arnold April 22, 2018 at 2:07 am Reply

        That’s great L….

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 4:29 am Reply

      How GW Farmaceuticals is stealing CBD away from us. When they succeed you’ll have to pay the gold price for a little bottle of CBD oil. Farmafia,once again:


      • Don Mowers April 22, 2018 at 6:25 am Reply

        A very good article. If there ever appeared to be collusion, it looks like it is between the FDA and Big Pharma. I just have one comment. At roughly $99 per one ounce bottle now. Discounted to $69.95 per bottle if you buy 6 bottles at a time. And I inadvertently found that 12 bottles would be $49.95 each. 12 bottles = $599.40. Pretty hefty investment!!! This stuff is very pricey now. What would it be if the FDA got into the game and made it a prescription “drug”?
        I am basing my costs on those published by http://www.hemplandusa.com
        Hempland USA claims to be the only supplier in the US that is making and selling CBD oil that is 100%, with no added junk to cut it.
        I do use their CBD oil.
        I must say that it does work to help anxiety problems but I don’t experience the pain relief that it is so touted for. Just me? The only way to find out if CBD oil is beneficial for you is to try it. Do your research and then YOU DECIDE.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2018 at 4:26 am

          Hi Don,

          I think that the hype is driving prices skyhigh. And about the fact that the oil doesn’t seem to work on your pain: I think the dose you take is too low.As a daily supplement you only need a few drops but to ease pain you’l need a lot more.You’ll have to experiment by taking a higher dose untill it works.As soon as it works you can try to take a bit less untill it stops working.Than you know what’s “your” optimal dose.

          I think the price of these oils is way and way too high. When I have musculair pain I use my magnetic pulser,and,if necessary,I take a paracetamol.My goal always is to ease the pain;eleminating it for 100% is not a must.

      • Andrea April 22, 2018 at 10:59 am Reply

        Henk, we are alredy paying gold price, I don’t know in Holland, where cannabis is legal, but I purchased some cbd oil, 10 ml, guaranteed 10% potency and organic, and it costs 70 euros…if you know some cheaper websites that sells it, please share…

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 12:42 pm

          It’s got nothing to do with legal or not legal; that oil is made from hemp. Even in the 80th hemp was not grown legaly in Holland because it’s to difficult to distinguish between hemp and marihuana. In Italy,on the other hand,there was,at that time,quite a bit of homegrown hemp (I know;we even tried to smoke it. Only gave a headache when you smoked a lot :-((

          Here,prices will be about the same. Percentage of CBD varies from 2,75 % to 18 %;some even higher. I think that the price consists of 10% costs and 90 % greed. Business as usual :-((

          Because in Italy many older people still grow hemp,for fibers,for animal food etc. it’s probably quite easy to find somebody who can help you obtain enough buds to make your oil yourself.Just dry them and use the methode discribed in the document I posted. Buying a good olive oil in Italy might be more difficult,with all the fraud going on in that sector ;-))

          Here one of the cheaper webshops in Holland; notice that prices here are almost equal to those in Italy:


        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2018 at 4:33 am

          Andrea,Cannabis/Marijhuana is not really legal in Holland; it’s alowed to smoke and have a small quantity with you but it’s not made legal by law. In my town they even closed the coffyshops (where you can by your “stash”) because too many people from Belgium and even France came here to buy.And since Bayer bougt the exclusive right to distribute the Cannabis tinctures made by GW farmaceuticals our government (the rightwing party’s) are trying to break down our praised cannabis politics while other countries,even in the USA, are legalising cannabis.

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 22, 2018 at 4:35 am Reply

      And don’t forget to read the comments (comment button under the article). They,too,contain some good information.

    • Andrea April 22, 2018 at 11:04 am Reply

      Brabrara, I signed up for the hearing. I’m going to London if they allow me to. When asked why I wanted to partecipate, I just wrote a brief summary of my story, of course, if they allow me to speak, I’m going to prepare a speech.

      • L April 22, 2018 at 11:07 am Reply

        Keep us posted! Hope you get to go. I was too sick when they did them here, but Lisa read mine for me. (In the email I sent regarding this one, I used the word “criminal” at the end

        • Andrea April 22, 2018 at 11:12 am

          Of course I will keep you updated. But as you told me before, even after many hearings, nothing really changed. Well anyway, still better than nothing…

        • Madge hirsch April 24, 2018 at 1:39 am

          I think if they take the same line as the FDA for warnings there will be slightly more notice taken by docs here in Europe. Our socialised medicine systems have more oversight and doctors paid by the state have less freedom than in the USA. I think in the UK there has already been a cutback in prescribing FQs simply because they are more expensive. Even here in France the body responsible for safety of medicines put a notice on it’s website saying they should not be prescribed as a first line treatment last autumn on the heels of the FDA statement. But my GP was not aware of it. Again letters or emails to doctors are necessary.

      • Barbara Arnold April 22, 2018 at 10:53 pm Reply

        Hope you go Andrea. Good Luck. If they put stronger warnings in the inserts it may save some others from the hell. Also we will be armed with information to those shit Doctors that treated us with contempt. I’m praying it will happen.
        By the way there are many good sellers of CBD in the Uk that will send internationaly. Easy to google and check out.

        • L April 23, 2018 at 8:56 am

          Sadly, they put stronger warnings on here in the US but nothing has changed. Doctors still hand them out like candy. The FDA does not actually WARN the doctors and they don’t take the time to inform themselves. And most people trust that their doctor will not poison them. And on it goes. I hope they do MORE than just slap more warnings on.

        • L April 23, 2018 at 8:59 am

          well, at least I got a response to my email: Thank you very much for sharing this information with us.

          It will be forwarded to our Safety Committee (PRAC) and taken into consideration within the ongoing review of quinolone and fluoroquinolone antibiotics.

          Kind regards,

          Marcia Martins

          European Medicines Agency

        • Andrea April 23, 2018 at 3:57 pm

          Hey L…you got a response, I’m still waitign for it. They just told me that they’ll let me know if they will allow me to go there or not in about 2 weeks…something is telling me that nobody is going to answer me.

        • L April 23, 2018 at 5:42 pm

          I just think they got back to me so quickly because it was just a written statement. It didn’t require anything more. I know when they were doing the hearing here they had to make sure there was enough time for each proposed speaker, so that’s probably what’s happening in your case. But if you still don’t hear in a few days, wouldn’t hurt to contact them again.

        • Andrea April 23, 2018 at 4:08 pm

          I hope I didn’t do anything wrong. This is what I wrote in box where you have to answer the 3 questions :
          As someone who’s suffered and is still suffering serious side effects from a fluoroquinolone, prescribed to me more than a year ago, I’d like to share my experience, in the hope that more consciousness would be applied, when using these types of drugs, and also in the hope of bringign these side effects to the attention of the many doctors, that still seem to ignore them.
          answering the questions
          1 I think quinolones and fluoroquinolones are powerful and effective drugs that should be only prescribed for serious or life threatening situation.
          2 The risk, in my opinion, exceed the benefits. A patient shouldn’t suffer serious ordisabling side effects from a drug prescribed to treat or even prevent a common infection.
          3 In my opinion, more restricting laws should be applied to this class of drugs and it should be mandatory for doctors to be better informed and trained on the use of quinolones and fluoroquinolones.

          I hope I didn’t anything wrong. Should I re compile the questionary hoping that they’ll answer me

      • Barbara Arnold April 23, 2018 at 10:05 pm Reply

        Andrea, I’m sure you didn’t do anything wrong, like L said it’s a different system if you want to go there. The hearing is not until June so there is plenty of time yet. Give it a couple of weeks and then send an email. If I hear anything more about it I will let you know.

      • Barbara Arnold April 24, 2018 at 1:44 am Reply

        Absolutely Madge. I am seeing my Doc on Thursday and I am going to inform him. I will also inform him of the result. I will also inform my pharmacist, because they don’t keep up either.

  33. Ken ward April 22, 2018 at 8:25 am Reply

    Lisa…I read an end of life story on this site about a friend of yours…it said she had,been diagnosed terminal…i was wondering how she got the diagnoses? And can you document my story?

    • Lisa April 23, 2018 at 9:04 am Reply

      Hi Ken,

      Are you referring to this post – https://floxiehope.com/2014/01/21/farewell-my-friend-may-peace-and-love-be-with-you/? Unfortunately, I’m not sure how she got the diagnosis, and I can no longer ask her. 😦

      As far as documenting your story, I’m happy to help if I can. Will you please shoot me an email through the contact link at the top of this page with how you propose doing that? I can certainly publish your story on http://www.fqwallofpain.com, and help to facilitate getting it published elsewhere. For documentation for a disability hearing, you’ll likely need to find a sympathetic doctor. Do you know of any? Functional medicine doctors and naturopaths seem to be most receptive and helpful.


    • L April 22, 2018 at 3:02 pm Reply

      Makes me crazy how they always uncommon or rare. There are MILLIONS of us.

      • Don Mowers April 22, 2018 at 3:42 pm Reply

        A million here and a million there is just a “small” percentage of the billions of people on the planet. Just a small percentage of “collateral damage”. No big deal. Think the drug companies as they rake in over 2 billion $$$$ annually. Cynically facetious am I? Yes!!!

  34. Andrea April 22, 2018 at 3:50 pm Reply

    Now that I think about it, does anyone knows how big is the percentage of people who develop side effects from FQ? I’m not too sure, but I remember reading a Bayer study, done in ’89 or something like that, and that percentage was a “reassuring” 6%.

    • L April 22, 2018 at 4:11 pm Reply

      The only figures I have come from Dr Charles Bennett and it is a “guesstimate.” He took the FDA’s own figures of reports and extrapolated from there. It is estimated that only 1 in 10 report, so he estimates 300,000 dead and millions injured. BUT again, this is ONLY with the FDA, and I am sure in some countries there is ZERO reporting done. I think that is just the tip of the iceberg, when you look at this site alone and see posts from US, Canada, Spain, Pakistan, Sweden, ad nauseum…..

    • L April 22, 2018 at 4:12 pm Reply

      Not to mention the fact that there are hundreds of thousands (millions?) more who NEVER MAKE THE CONNECTioN.

      • Andrea April 22, 2018 at 4:42 pm Reply

        All right. Thanks L.

    • L April 24, 2018 at 11:38 am Reply

      yes, proton pump inhibitors—another big money make for big pharma and terrible for patients. These are given to pretty much anyone with digestive issues, on the thought that we have too much stomach acid. In actuality, most people have too LITTLE. And ones you get on these pills it’s difficult to get off. Things that DO help are Betaine HCL, digestive enzymes, probiotics, DGL licorice, apple Cider Vinegar…lots of natural options

      • Don Mowers April 24, 2018 at 11:52 am Reply

        Good comment. Kind of goes along with one of my favorite sayings. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, there are people who will eventually come to believe it”. When big money is involved there is no limit to the misinformation that one hears from the drug companies. And the really sad thing is that people we are supposed to trust, the doctors, support the lies. Thank goodness that the Internet came along and we can do our own research when we are bombarded with misinformation.

        • L April 24, 2018 at 1:05 pm

          and as far as telling that lie…they have been very successful. if I ever post something on FB re natural treatments or naturopaths…inevitably someone will call it quackery or offer a tin foil hat

    • Andrea April 25, 2018 at 6:05 am Reply

      Before being floxed, so when I was still using NSAIDs from time to time, for an headache or something like that, I remember my doctor telling me to take omeprazole as protection…I don’t know what to think

      • L April 25, 2018 at 8:40 am Reply

        Your doctor sadly, like so many others, has only been trained to throw pharmaceuticals at a problem. As mentioned before, most people have TOO LITTLE not too much stomach acid. All these PPIs do is mask symptoms while creating problems, including thinning bones and bone fractures, heart disease, infection.. and this https://www.cbsnews.com/news/common-heartburn-drugs-linked-with-kidney-disease/

        • Andrea April 25, 2018 at 10:02 am

          I still belive in official medicine, but the more I read, the more I think most of the things we’ve been told about doctors and medicines are just a big scam…at least the approach these doctors have to drugs…well, sad but true, a little too late for us…

        • Madge hirsch April 25, 2018 at 12:56 pm

          A large part of the problem is the system that governs the regulation of drugs. Drug clinical trials are almost invariably sponsored by industry. The authorisation for marketing is given by bodies like the FDA and in Europe the EMA . They are in the power of industry to a large degree and the revolving door employment practices don’t help. Medical journals which publish studies get a lot of their dosh from industry ads leading to publication bias. Problems due to side effects rarely surface much in the clinical trials unless they are really awful. So quinolones that were withdrawn from the market due to toxicity had still made it onto the market in the first place. I would bet that in each case the toxicity had come to light in the animal experiments but had been covered up by the pharma company. Docs tend to look at clinical trial data if they look at anything other than the Pharma sales rep’s spiel. The post marketing adverse event recording ( again underreporting is massive) does not loom very large on their horizons. The whole thing is a corrupt vicious circle and needs reforming from top to bottom. Fat chance.

        • Don Mowers April 25, 2018 at 1:28 pm

          Correct. “Fat chance”. When the drug companies haul in North of 2 billion $$$$ annually there is a fat chance that the will roll over and admit the real truth about the franken drugs they have concocted. When over a couple billion $$$$ is out there a few million cases of collateral damage are insignificant to them.

        • L April 25, 2018 at 5:05 pm

          Yep, all too true. The FDA is complicit. Too many cherry picked, industry written, ghost written “studies.” Here’s an interesting piece from Slate. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/02/fda_inspections_fraud_fabrication_and_scientific_misconduct_are_hidden_from.html

        • Barbara Arnold April 25, 2018 at 10:04 pm

          Just read your post about the FDA L. Words fail me. There’s BOB HOPE and NO HOPE

        • L April 25, 2018 at 11:14 pm

          well you know they have been aware of the danger of FLQs for as long as Bayer and J & J. As someone mentioned, too many revolving doors. The current head had the bulk of his salary while at Duke University underwritten by pharma. The one before him actually said that their clients are the pharmaceutical companies. Not us, the public, but pharma.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 26, 2018 at 2:18 am

          Here is a more reliable list of Cypro and adverse reactions


        • Don Mowers April 26, 2018 at 5:54 am

          MONEY!!! Its all about “m-o-n-e-y”. These drug companies are in business to make money and lots of it. They have no qualms about using it to buy anyone and every one. The reality is that because of the “money” involved they (their management) have lost sight of the real reason they are in business. The old adage “do no harm” has totally escaped them and all their accomplices (doctors). Contrary to common belief doctors do not know it all. They only know what they are told and read in the tainted literature they receive. It comes down to if one wants to try to be healthy (and stay out of their traps) they must deal with an alternative medicine doctor and do their own research. I think Ronald Reagan had it right when he said this. “Trust but verify”.

        • Barbara Arnold April 26, 2018 at 12:26 am

          L So much corruption, it beggars belief. Sadly it’s the world in which we live and taints all those people that ARE ethical. Every time I watch a programme that is to do with Doctors, I have nothing but contempt, which of course is wrong, but I have learned so much through this process and I can’t help my cynical self. How sad.
          This morning I am taking all the information about the EMA meeting in London to my Doctor with a lot of add on’s about documented side effects, and evidence that we are NOT RARE. It took me hours to translate to Spanish but I believe we have to do all we can to stop this madness. I have also printed out the information you posted about how the FDA tries to cover up evidence.
          I can feel the sighs before I arrive, but I don’t care. They think if they don’t hear anything for a while, the ‘problem has gone away’
          Nope I shall continue telling them until I no longer can.
          I am also giving a copy to the pharmacist that told me he would not give a fluroquinolone to anyone in his family.
          Lets see what happens, nothing probably.

        • L April 26, 2018 at 9:33 am

          Good for you Barbara! We are kindred spirits!

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 26, 2018 at 1:04 am Reply

      I found out on PPI´s the hard way.After about 15 years of Losec and getting more and more problems with my health.Backpain,sleeping problems,nightmares,almost every night,depression,and cardiac arrythmia,that in nov. 2015 brought me to the hospital twice in two weeks time,with an ambulance. The second time I had a hefty discussion with a heart speccialist over the Losec being the cause and he gave me a very scientific response. He asked Do you now how many people use Losec! Well,of course,all these people using Losec were the ultimate proof of the safety of Losec and other PPI´s. Well,at least according to the specialist.

      By that time I had every symptom of magnesium defficiency except for PMS ( no suprise.I´m a guy),and I decided to stop Losec immediatly. Went through hell because all these 15 years my body tried to compensate for the Lsec. Well,easy guess what happens when you stop Losec. I had before asked a doctor how to stop it and she answered that she didn´t know.

      Since I was in the hospital the first time I use Flecaìnide Acetate ( that didn´t stop the problems because I was back in hospital 2 weeks later. Still use that today although it gave me gut bleedings because of extremely hard stool. Then they gave me a synthetic fiber to loosen the stool. It helped but ruined my social live (flatulency with a terrible smell),so I stopped with that and now use Psyllium seed granulate. Works as well,is cheap end easier on my social life. Made my doctor mad that I, once again,played my own doctor. Well,you all know her buy now,after reading my stories.

  35. harriet April 24, 2018 at 4:34 pm Reply

    Winston Churchill said: “The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.”

    • Don Mowers April 25, 2018 at 1:29 pm Reply

      In the case of the drug industry and the doctors it is “WILLFUL” ignorance.

  36. Andrea April 25, 2018 at 2:00 pm Reply

    Hey Henk, I need some advice here.
    After you introduced me to that magnetic pulser, something I really knew nothing about it, I’ve done a little research. I really don’t know what to think. It looks like a scam to me (just my opinion of course) , but at the same time, after reading many reviews, including yours, I’m getting curious. Anyway, in your experience, do you think it could be useful for treating things like overactive bladder, or also bladder obstructions, due to a bladder neck sclerosis? Thanks.

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 26, 2018 at 12:33 am Reply

      Hi Andrea,the magnetic pulser is helpfull with infections and pain. It´s definitely not a scam.This technic is used since a few years by orthodox medicine for treating artrose. Bob Beck was an inventor who worked,among others,for the american army and navy,developing devices. And he didn´t sell the magnetic pulser and those other devices but developped them out of interest for electrical healing methods. He hated the greed of the medical industry.

      I don´t know if the magnetic pulser might be of help fir your bladder problems. I had bladder problems myself ( `old man` problems) and here it worked well. and I had to get used to the stronger stream. At first it gave me a oncomfortable feeling,kind of a soft pain,and I stopped pulsing after 2 weeks.I also noticed thad my muscels in that region were quite tens,so I practiced relaxing them.I also supplemented zinc and after another few weeks I had the strong urine stream of a young man. My main problem is kidney stones which I had a few because I used an acid neutralizing medicine (magn.and calcium suppl.) for stomach acid problems and I think this caused not only a few bladder infections but the other problems as well.

      You may experiment with a pulser the cheap way by building one yourself or find somebody to help you building one. The only things you need are an old but strong photo flash unit a piece of power cord and a copper coil. I build a few and my favorite flash unit is the Vivitar 2800. Cheap bought second hand on the web, easy to modificate and strong enough for the job. I use a Visaton coil of 2,2 mH and 1,3 mm thick wire, article number 5032. And you MUST use a thick double wire like that of a washing machine. With a thinner wire you lose too much power in the wire.

      All you need to do is open the flash unit,disconnect one of the wires on the flash tube (be carefull,its quite fragile) and solder one wire of your power cord to the now free connection on the flash tube and the other on the little wire you took from the tube.Solder the two wires on the other side of the cord to both ends of the copper coil.Now the coil is connected in series with the flash tube. Start the flash unit and,when fully loaded,push the button for a test flash ( on the Vivitar it´s the little red button on the foot of the unit). The unit will flash and the coil will give a magnetic pulse.You can test that by putting the coil on the table,put a washer on it,near the centre and make the unit flash. The washer will now jump from the coil.

      Important. Conect the cord strongly to the flash unit to avoid the cord being pulled out of the unit because this will damage the flash tube and the little wire that was connected to it.

      This will cost you 30 to 40 euro´s ( and a bottle of wine for the one who helped with the build) and give you the opportunity to experiment with it. I use it all over my body,where needed,except in my heart area.

      You can find a lot of information about ( the use of) this device,and the beck protocol on the web. See the links I gave you and view the instruction clips on youtube by Sota and others.

      • Andrea April 26, 2018 at 3:07 pm Reply

        Thanks a lot Henk. This Bob Beck story is really interesting. It seems almost too good to be true, but, as I wrote before, what else I have to loose. I will keep reading about this Sota Pulser. Anyway thank you so much. You’re always so helpful and your posts always bring so much positive energy!

      • Madge hirsch April 29, 2018 at 2:49 am Reply

        Are these pulsers like PEMF devices? I have 3 different types of these and have found them useful for tendinitis especially elbow and shoulder. I have a mat and when I use it regularly I sleep better.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 29, 2018 at 6:40 am

          There is a difference between the Beck magnetic pulser and the PEMF devices.The Beck pulser works by delivering a strong magnetic pulse which creates an electrical pulse in every metal particle in the body ( iron,copper,etc.There´s metal particles everywher in the body).The electrical pulse,like the one given by the Silver Pulser,inactivates bacteria and other pathogenes,and in the meantime lessens pain (TENS).The pulse is not modulated,there´s no frequency component.

        • Bob April 29, 2018 at 7:54 am

          What brand of PEMF mat that you own works best for you.

        • L April 29, 2018 at 9:49 am

          Hey Madge, do you have a pemp that is not a mat? I used one at my old ND’s office but when I searched online I couldn’t find one, or I would find something outrageously expensive. Where did you get yours?

        • L April 29, 2018 at 9:50 am


  37. Ronna April 26, 2018 at 6:17 am Reply

    It has been 16 months since I have taken Avelox and Prednisone for sinus infection. I have lost weight, my sense of hunger and developed rapid gastric emptying. My biggest problem is the head pressure. My mouth is slightly swollen in the inside and voice is hoarse at times from swelling. Has anyone had these problems? My doctor wants me to have a steroid injection in my neck, does anyone have thoughts on this? I am so miserable with constant anxiety.

    • Don Mowers April 26, 2018 at 7:03 am Reply

      ANXIETY. From the view point of one who is “floxed”. Look into the CBD oil. It does help the anxiety. I know because I use it. Be sure it is the good stuff and not one of the many “knockoffs”. (see my previous posts on “quality” CBD oil) So many people try things and claim that they don’t work, when they have tried to save some money and bought a “cheepie”. As for the steroid shot. ?????? My opinion…….. If you are floxed (and it sounds like you are) it probably won’t be of any benefit. Get on to Google and do your own research.

    • Andrea April 26, 2018 at 3:03 pm Reply

      Hey Ronna. I too suggest you to google ” fluoroquinolones and steroids” and make your own decision. There are many links about this topic.
      Something can be good for someone and dangerous for another. I can only tell you that many, many floxies suggest to stay away from steroids. Also look out for NSAIDs. Take care.

      • L April 26, 2018 at 5:24 pm Reply

        Not good for anyone. this is actually one of the black box warnings on Cipro. Here is one on prednisone https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/cipro-with-prednisone-672-332-1936-0.html

        • Madge hirsch May 2, 2018 at 9:19 am

          I bought 2 devices on ebay uk. One is stronger but quite difficult to use as it has to be held under a strap and this does not work well on certain areas eg shoulder. The other device is by Homedics and is tiny and sticks on with double sided tape. This can be worn for a long time even overnight and I found it helped with tendonitis I had in my elbow and shoulder. At any rate it improved a lot but I suppose it could have got better of it’s own accord.

        • L May 2, 2018 at 9:33 am

          my ND’s office had one that had a kind of circular wand that you just held over a particular area. I really like it and was hoping to find something smaller (and cheaper!) thanks

    • Lukasz April 27, 2018 at 6:39 pm Reply

      Hi Ronna,

      I experienced all of the symptoms you described and I know for a fact most people on this site have as well. These are trademark toxicity symptoms. I agree with the others. Getting more steroids into your body is risky business. It’s how most of us (including you it seems) have gotten into this mess in the first place.

  38. Ronna April 26, 2018 at 7:37 am Reply

    Do you think the steroid shot would makes things worse? That is my greatest fear?

    • Don Mowers April 26, 2018 at 8:19 am Reply

      One never knows. I wish I had a good answer.
      Just a comment. Have you ever looked into how many drugs contain “fluoride”? Many of the injectables, anesthetics, and other prescription drugs also contain “fluoride”. The big issue is “Flouoroquinolones but the same “fluoride” is found in many other unsuspecting places. Might the steroid injection your doctor wants to give contain “fluoride”? Does it contain the preservative Thimerosal? Thimerosal is a derivative of mercury. Pitfalls abound when one is trying to find a path through the maze of drugs that can be hazardous to our health.

      • Ronna April 26, 2018 at 9:14 am Reply

        That helps a lot, I will ask them. After about 2 hours after I get up my head pressure goes away. Can this be a sign of getting better, my ears have mostly stop ringing also. I am looking for a sign of recovery. You are helpful to me as this is my first time posting anything. Thank you.

        • Daniela April 26, 2018 at 4:22 pm

          Malissa (melissa, lemon balm) is really good for anxiety. The University of Michigan found it more effective than the benzodiazapine Halcion.

        • Lukasz April 27, 2018 at 6:12 pm


          If you’re experiencing less head pressure and tinnitus, you’re certainly on your way. These are VERY good signs.

        • L April 27, 2018 at 6:42 pm

          Just saw your response that included tinnitus, but not sure where the thread began. Do you know of something for tinnitus?

        • Lukasz April 27, 2018 at 7:32 pm


          Not really. Mine went away on its own.

  39. Lukasz April 27, 2018 at 7:28 pm Reply

    Word of advice to the Floxie Community:

    Steer clear of Passion Flower tea. Took it for 8 days before bed to help with sleep (3 and a half years and I’m still not sleeping well!!!) and it escalated my depression/anxiety levels to heights not seen since the onset of my symptoms in 2015. Spoke to a health and wellness practitioner about it and she explained that passion flower tea can, in fact, cause psychotic reactions in some individuals. She backed up her claims with some studies that were done.

    It’s possible that I’m simply allergic to this herb but I wanted to warn others in case anyone was thinking about trying it. My suggestion is to use caution as it MAY make your situation worse than it already is.

    Hope you’re all seeing improvement of late. Keep the good fight going!

    • Saff April 28, 2018 at 2:36 am Reply

      Hi Lukasz,

      Thanks for the info, have you tried camomile tea for sleep and/or ZMA (zinc, magnesium, B6)? I have been taking them for a while and they help.

      • Henk Noordhuizen April 28, 2018 at 3:09 am Reply

        I took the combination supplement magnesium and B6 years ago and it kept me awake. Researching why, I discovered that B6 makes people more active. Magnesium right after my lunch ( I still eat my warm meal at noon) and melatonine,shortly before going to bed help a lot for me. And I always read a book while in bed.Most of the time my eyes get tired after 1 or 2 chapters.

        • Lukasz April 29, 2018 at 1:55 pm


          Reading helps me too. I try to power down early and when I do, I fall asleep faster.

      • Lukasz April 29, 2018 at 1:51 pm Reply


        Chamomile tea works best for me. It’s about the only thing that works. Never tried ZMA or even heard of it. I’ll be sure to look into it if things don’t improve. Do you take it right before bed? What’s the dosage you take?

    • Daniela April 28, 2018 at 10:20 am Reply

      Hi Lukasz, It took me a few years to sleep better and I still have episodes. Recently started drinking melissa from Morocco and it helps.
      Watch out what you buy! A friend of mine was drinking “chamomile tea” and having insomnia. I looked at the box and it was black tea with chamomile!
      So try to get real herbs, and then use just a little because it may be much stronger or more bitter.
      Melatonin usually keeps me awake all night, like caffeine, but sometimes works very strongly like I imagine a pharmaceutical sedative would.
      The best thing from the past was lavender extract but it has been years since I have found a good one. They destroyed so many of the sources in Eastern Europe for real estate and tourism (Hvar!) and a different variety is now grown industrially in Xinjiang.

      So when the box says passiflora, what is really inside? It could be mixed with other things, it could be an ineffective variety, etc.

      But you are on the right path. Valerian root (the real stuff tastes so bad!), chamomile, linden. If you can find it, aromatherapy with lavender. Meditating during insomnia wakes me up but earlier in the day helps a lot. Working your biorhythms. Keep off phone, internet, TV for two hours before bedtime.

      Good luck!

      • Lukasz April 29, 2018 at 2:14 pm Reply


        Could you expand on melissa from Morocco? Is this a herbal tea?

        The only ingredient of the passion flower tea is Passion Flower (Passiflora incarnata) itself but it’s clear that I had a negative reaction to it. Another lesson to take away.

        Yeah, I’ve heard aromatherapy can be quite beneficial. Seems to calm things down quite a bit. I’m still waiting for my body and mind to stop attacking itself (fight or flight).

        Thanks for the advice.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 29, 2018 at 2:29 pm

          Here is information on melissa:


          It is very easy to grow,it’s relaxing and helps to sleep better. I add fresh leaves to my salades and juices (it has a nice lemon taste and smell) and you can also make a nice tasting tea from dried or fresh leaves. I introduced it to Maroccan neighbours to mix it with their mint tea (Nanna) and they are enthousiastic now. I gave them a piece of my plant. Formely they grew their own Nanna,now they buy the Nanna and grow Melissa :-)) It’s easy to find melissa tea (dried leaves) in shops that sell tea,or (medical) herbs and subs.

      • Lukasz April 30, 2018 at 11:21 am Reply

        Good to know. Thanks for the info.

  40. Chaun April 28, 2018 at 4:14 am Reply

    I was floxed in 2015 by taken 2 weeks of cipro prescribed by my doctor,It took me about 2 years to recover back to 98%.But with God and magnesium plus time you can do it! However, i have stomach problems now like Ibs symptoms constipation bloating ,gas all the time.Has anybody had these symptoms and whats good to help for them? Thanks

    • Daniela April 28, 2018 at 9:59 am Reply

      I feel like cipro gave me celiac disease or something like it. Very sensitive to wheat, actually all grains. Eliminating grains helps me.

      • Lukasz April 29, 2018 at 2:26 pm Reply

        Cipro causes all kinds of allergies including but not limited to; wheat (gluten), dairy (casein), and seafood. It’s the leading cause of Celiac disease.

        • Henk Noordhuizen April 29, 2018 at 2:35 pm

          I just watched this docu “Certain Adverse Events” and it’s very interesting. Situation is more or less the same in the EU,be it that developments on safety regulation are a few years behind those in the USA:

        • Lukasz April 30, 2018 at 11:29 am

          Thanks for posting this. Been meaning to check this out.

    • Lukasz April 29, 2018 at 2:22 pm Reply


      I had similar problems. L-Glutamine fixes leaky gut and the symptoms associated with it. May want to look into probiotics and prebiotics as well.

  41. Ronna April 28, 2018 at 5:37 am Reply

    Decided against steroid shot for my neck pressure and swelling. Doctor suggested an radio frequency Ablation procedure. Has anyone tried this? Does anyone report swelling in the oral mucosa. I had a biopsy done which ruled out Sjogrens Syndrome. I have chronic mild inflammation in my inside cheeks and lips; therefore producing less saliva. Bad pressure on right side of my face too. also dry eye. Has this ever been reported? Wondering if this is symptom or something else. Will the sota pulser bring down swelling?

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 28, 2018 at 6:49 am Reply

      Hi Ronna,
      the inflamation and swelling can be treated with a (Sota’ magnetic pulser. I advise to,before buying the expensive Sota pulser, look for someone who can help you build a cheap (30 to 40 euro) homebuild pulser. You can find the information for building one on the bobbeck.com website.

      • Henk Noordhuizen April 28, 2018 at 6:50 am Reply

        And using Colloidal,or Ionic Silver might help as well.

        • Don Mowers April 28, 2018 at 7:15 am

          I give a hearty second to the use of Colloidal Silver. The concern that is so many times raised about Argyria is rather overblown. Using today’s Ionic Colloidal Silver in responsible amounts Argyria is little or no concern. It has many beneficial affects and historically it shows to be a safe product. Just one point though. Colloidal Silver will also kill off the good bacteria in the gut so some form of probiotic is needed to stave this off. Just a comment. …. I have used it (and made my own) for over 8 years and “I ain’t blue yet”.

  42. Ronna April 28, 2018 at 5:43 am Reply

    To Toby
    I am also on 7.5 Mirtazapine for weight gain and it has helped. It also helps me to sleep. I tried to stop taking it for 2 nights and had severe anxiety. I read you have to decrease by 10% each week or so to taper down. I am trying shaving a little piece off the half each time. This works, but takes time. I have tried prescription digestive enzymes and they have done nothing.I’m eating well, but still struggle to gain weight. Good Luck.

    • Don Mowers April 28, 2018 at 9:43 am Reply

      Google CBD oil. One if it’s attributes is said to be relief of anxiety. It does help me. Be sure you are buying good pure stuff. Good stuff is not cheap. Cheap knock off junk will no doubt disappoint you and you will then say it doesn’t work. I buy …. http://www.hemplandusa.com

      • harriet May 12, 2018 at 5:45 pm Reply

        Don Does it help neuropathic pain and muscular spasms?

        • Don Mowers May 12, 2018 at 8:10 pm

          Although CBD is supposed to be great for pain etc. I seem to only see results for anxiety. because it is so expensive I don’t take it regularly. I only use CBD oil when I feel anxiety has invaded me. My simple answer to your question is no I don’t find it beneficial for neuropathic pain and muscle spasms.

          Muscle spasms. Magnesium is the best thing to “help” control muscle spasms. I take Dr. Carolyn Dean’s “Remax”. According to her the magnesium she sells is in the “pico ionic” state and bypasses the ravaging done by the digestive system going straight to the cells.
          She says that with oral magnesium in pill form about only 4% to 20% of the magnesium is absorbed into the body cells and the rest is excreted. Very poor percentages.
          Read what she has to say on her web site. https://www.rnareset.com/
          For leg cramps and other muscle spasms I use magnesium oil. Spray it on and it is absorbed into the skin in just a few minutes. It will kill leg cramps in less than 10 minutes.
          For reference https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-dr-barbara-hendels-magnesium-oil-3-8oz-bottles-liquid
          I also took an old roll on deodorant bottle an poked a hole in the side and filled it with magnesium oil. It makes it much easier to apply and I can reach more places on the old body.
          Another thing that really does work for muscle spasms is apple cider vinegar. Wet down a piece of paper towel and rub it on to the muscle and it will kill the spasm. The idea is based on the product this web site sells. http://www.stopslegcramps.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1tLM_dmB2wIVicJkCh0e7w3QEAAYASAAEgIT-PD_BwE

          That’s about it for now. I suppose this will be tagged for review since it is long and refers to web sites. Oh well.

    • harriet April 28, 2018 at 5:41 pm Reply
    • harriet May 2, 2018 at 5:23 am Reply

      water titration if tapering off tirmatzepine is better. There are online videos on this. Take care.

      • Ronna May 2, 2018 at 6:29 am Reply

        Thank you, I will research that method.

  43. Ronna April 28, 2018 at 8:19 am Reply

    Do I put the colloidal silver on my neck? Will the sota pulser bring down inflammation?

    • Don Mowers April 28, 2018 at 9:31 am Reply

      Colloidal Silver is an “anti-infective” that works different from antibiotics. Basically (simple explanation) it starves the bacteria of it’s oxygen supply and with out it the bacterial dies, therefore not being able to reproduce. It is said to be the the only anti-infective/antibiotic that no germ can become resistant to. Can you use it on your neck? No problem using it topically but what benefit might it have there? I use it internally, as a counter top sterilizer, in my wash water when I was clothes, as a topical anti-infective for cuts and scrapes, basically anywhere I want a germ killer. Google it. There is a lot of information about it on the Internet.
      While you are at it Google DMSO. I use a mixture of 25% DMSO, 25% Aloe vera and 50% magnesium oil as a topical muscle relaxant/pain reliever. Topical Magnesium oil is a muscle relaxant, DMSO has pain relieving properties and enhances the absorption of anything into the skin and the Aloe vera soothes any irritation from the others. This topical mix might be of some benefit to your neck. NOTE … Buy only 100% medical grade DMSO. You don’t want to be soaking up the impurities that are in industrial grade. I put this mixture in a roll on bottle for application. Spray bottles also work if you can reach the area.

      My disclaimer …. I am no doctor and have no “love for” or association with the medical profession. But I do a lot of experimenting with herbals, vitamins and minerals.

  44. Ronna April 29, 2018 at 6:07 am Reply

    L. How did you get better, I feel I’ve tried everything and now a deep depression has set in and husbands support is gone. I feel alone in this, I need to get well fast. Please some hints

    • L April 29, 2018 at 9:56 am Reply

      H Ronna, I have posted things I used a lot on here, if you can do a search. But what helped me the most were IVs: phosphatidylcholine, Myers, High dose C (50K mg), glutathione and I also was give H2O2 IVs to wean off inhaled steroids for asthma. Had I not been give that he would have given me ozone treatments. I took up to 800 mg of mag daily for a while and a lot of other supplements…can’t even remember them now. But what helped me the most were the IVs.

      • Ronna April 30, 2018 at 7:04 am Reply

        Hi L. Going for IV today, which should I do first, Meyers or Glutathione? I feel so hot but no fever, sweating all night. How often can I get these?

        • L April 30, 2018 at 10:07 am

          Myers is what I was started on. IT’s great because it has a lot of much needed magnesium, as well as B vitamins and other nutrients you need. RE glutathione…I started with a Push, not a whole IV. Some people apparently have not done well with glutathione but it was great for me. RE the high dose Vitamin C, you will need a blood test first before getting this one. There is a tiny percent of the population that cannot tolerate it. You will need a G6PD test first.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 1, 2018 at 12:58 am

          Hi Ronna,it can be menopause (don’t know how old you are but it may be your hormonal system is upset). Might also be that your glucose level is fluctuating too much. But feeling hot and sweatting during the night sounds to me like menopause symptoms.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 1, 2018 at 1:06 am

          Forgot to mention why I think of (early?) menopause. A girlfriend of mine had those same,well known symptoms. I gave her magnesium oil (a saturated solution of magnesium chloride in destiled water) and from the moment she started rubbing the oil on her belly and leggs before going to sleep the hot flushes and nightly sweat almost disappeared. One night she came home late from work and forgot to rub the oil and she had a bad night with the heat flushes and the sweating comming back.

        • Ronna May 1, 2018 at 5:09 am

          Thanks for your tips, but I am 65 and way past menopause. I had Meyers IV yesterday and did not sweat last night, terrible headache tho, so tired of all these symptoms. Headaches are getting worse after 16 months, it’s scary. Not sure what to do next? No alcohol, no caffeine, clean diet what else is there?

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 1, 2018 at 6:41 am

          I still think magnesium might be ( one of ) the cause(s) ofm your symptoms,but I might be wrong. Only a test for intercellulair magnesium level may give you clear information on this.

        • Don Mowers May 1, 2018 at 6:55 am

          Ronna … Look into Turmeric/Curcumin. It is claimed to have many benefits. One is to relieve inflammation, which helps to relieve some pain. Look into Boswellia Seratta. It is claimed to affect the Cox 2 in the body and mitigate it some. One of the popular US companies selling non prescription (natural ???) things to help with pain has a formula that is Curcumin and fish oil. A note of caution … When looking for Turmeric/Curcumin look for the Curcumin that has been processed to 95% Curcuminoids. As with so many other things, lesser (plain old Turmeric) they can give you disappointing results. Turmeric is very hard to assimilate so it is limited in it’s effectiveness. Another point … Curcumin is “oil based”. It needs oil with it to enhance its effectiveness. Dr. Blaylock recommends taking a couple teaspoons of Olive Oil (Coconut Oil would also be good) with the Curcumin 95 to improve it’s absorption. Another thing that also is a benefit to Curcumin 95 is a formula that has some Bioperine in it. Bioperine is basically a fancy name for “black pepper”. Recap … Curcumin 95 with Bioperine along with fish oil (Krill oil preferred)

          I to have the headache problem.

    • Andrea April 29, 2018 at 7:37 pm Reply

      Hey Ronna, did you changed your diet since being floxed? Did you noticed if certain foods triggers your symptoms?

      • Ronna April 30, 2018 at 3:33 am Reply

        Yes, I cut out as much sugar as I can, only chicken without antibiotics and grass fed beef, vegetables. I am so dry no matter how much water I drink. My lips are shriveled up every morning and inside my mouth is always swollen. Now the night sweats are back. What causes this?

        • Andrea April 30, 2018 at 9:08 pm

          I really don’t know what causes the night sweats, sorry, but I can try to guess…
          Do you drink? I don’t mean drink like an alchoolic but anyway, alchool is bad for your nervous system,even though I’ve read some floxies feel good after drinking a glass of wine. I personally don’t drink. I gave up drinking 3 years before being floxed, but I remember that when I used to drink, expecially if I drank too many beers, I would wake up all sweaty. Remember, alchool is a vasodilator.
          How about caffeine? Do you consume it? I became very sensitive to it. Even small amounts of coffee make feel extremely weak and light headed. What about heat? Have you noticed if your symtoms worsen when the weather is hot? I defently weel worse when it’s hot.
          Oh, just another thing, and this is just a suggestion. I wouldn’t completely avoid carbs. Of course, if you’ve noticed that they make you feel bad, keep skipping them, but I would include some good whole grains and legumes. They’re good for you. It’s true that many floxies became sensitive to so many things, but also restricting too mcuh your diet isn’t good either.

        • Ronna May 1, 2018 at 4:37 am

          Thanks Andrea, I quit caffeine but still have a beer sometimes, will quit that too now. I am careful with my diet also. Seeing GI doc on Friday to see what he says. I had a Meyers IV to see if it would help hydrate me. Didn’t see much difference, not sure how long or how many IVs it takes to feel better. I still have no sense of hunger and lots of facial pressure. Somethings get better as somethings get worse. Has anyone heard of Radiofrequency Ablation to your neck to get rid of headaches. Does it work?

  45. Lukasz April 30, 2018 at 12:55 pm Reply

    Anybody have inability to feel emotions? Sadness, happiness, etc.? Surely this must be a symptom of the antibiotics. Any ideas on how to restore human emotions without resorting to pharmaceuticals? One would think after 3 1/2 years of torment, emotions would return?

  46. Andrea April 30, 2018 at 9:54 pm Reply

    I don’t think I’m unable to feel emotions. Actually, sadness and anger became very common after being floxed. But I also noticed that I started to see life in a “colder” way. I now understand that my health has been permanently damaged, and I don’t know to what degree, and this makes me feel incredibly cold. So in a way. maybe, I too became “emotionless” . Like for example, even if I’m intersted in something or someone, I try to hold back this interests/emotions, because I don’t feel I’m the same person I used to be. I now consider myself an invalid, a crippled, and I don’t like it. I hate that feeling of being “old” and needing help at just 31.
    I know this could offend someone, but it’s just how I feel.
    Expecially because, even if many people tell you : “oh, I’m so sorry for you, I understand”, they really don’t, and they keep asking you to smile, or they tell you “to react”. Or even worst, ” don’t worry, sooner or later, you’ll get better”.Yeah right…
    Anyway, back to you, this apathy you’re experiencing, it’s not good and, I too would avoid antidepressant. In my opnion they just create more mess. Instead, try to be as much active as possible. And try to eat healhty. Just these two things can make a huge difference in how we feel. Just moving and eating healthy. Some psychiatrists are starting to recognize the damage of these wild prescriptions, and they’re stressing on these two lifestyle changes.
    Another thing you can do, is to explore the world of nootropics. They’re not antiddpressant or prescription drugs, but anyway, as always, be carefull and do your homeworks, before trying anything new, or even better talk to some expert.

    • Lukasz May 3, 2018 at 7:55 am Reply


      Thanks for all your advice and most of all, thanks for listening.

      I know what you mean about sadness and anger. Come to think of it, these two emotions are the only two left after being Cipro’ed. No joy, no happiness, not even neutral feelings. Mainly just excruciating sorrow. You nailed it on the head when you said that life is now viewed in a colder way. Trust has long been broken and what’s worse, you feel that anything can freakin’ hurt you, especially certain foods and water. It’s a gut-wrenching way to live, to say the least.

      Don’t feel bad for stating things as they are. I feel the exact same way. You’re a 31 year old cripple and I’m a 37 year old cripple. This is the reality of the situation. I suppose if we were older this could be easier to digest but losing the life you once knew at such a young age is utterly devastating.

      I too used to get those statements from people. At first I thought they were right, I was sure this a temporary state. Now I’m starting to realize that this is not going away any time soon. That I could, potentially, be disabled for the rest of my life. Therein lies the problem… we’ve been left crippled. By whom? BY FREAKIN’ DOCTORS! DOCTORS OF ALL PEOPLE! The very same people who are put on this planet to help others! And the worst part of all this is that these are PERMANENT INJURIES. Some of us have to endure this condition for the rest of our lives.

      Life waits for no one. It will pass us by one way or another and there’s nothing we can do about it. Sorry to sound off like this, the mental and physical fatigue is catching up to me.

      : (

      • L May 3, 2018 at 10:13 am Reply

        “I suppose if we were older this could be easier to digest” Don’t count on it.

        • Don Mowers May 3, 2018 at 10:29 am

          I’m 84 and don’t like it one bit.

      • Bob May 3, 2018 at 12:04 pm Reply

        Being disabled at 60 is no more tolerable than at 37. I do think that you should still strive for recovery. I think the younger you are the better chance you have.

      • Barbara Arnold May 3, 2018 at 12:58 pm Reply

        I feel sorry for you that you are so young, but being ‘older’ is just as crap because all the years you worked hard to ‘live the dream when your ‘older’ has been stolen from you.’ In our minds we are ‘still young’, hard for you to understand I know, because I was once like you.
        One thing I will say is to suggest you change your mindset, ( or it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. It’s BECAUSE you are young, you CAN recover, but it takes patience and time. There are many people with your symptoms at your age that have recovered. If I was you I would be focusing on those and your own healing. I would not expect to heal in a few months, but I would expect to heal in a few years, and if it happens before that will be a bonus and I would be looking for every which way to do that.
        Just to let you know, I was in a wheelchair, had chronic fatique, insomnia, peripheral neuropathy, lots and lots of pain every day. Now I have a life, I have done long haul flights to the Maldives, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, and plan another trip next year back to the Maldives. I am 75 years young today, and am three and a half years in. I still have PN most days, some pain, which I have learn’t to manage, insomnia intermittingly and fatique, but if I gave into it, it would be much worse.
        Yep there are times when I feel sorry for myself and I allow myself that, but I don’t ‘wallow to long because it serves no purpose.
        I truly wish you well and that you do heal very soon, but please don’t suggest that just because we are ‘older’ it’s more acceptable. It’s not.

      • Lukasz May 3, 2018 at 8:46 pm Reply

        Seems I’ve hit a nerve with some people so let me clarify my original statement. At no point did I suggest that having this condition at any age is acceptable or easier to deal with. It’s not. What I tried to get across is that people who are inflicted in their younger years tend to be more prone to irrational thoughts and behaviour, particularly suicidal tendencies. People in their later years have more control over their emotions and as a result, are less likely to take their own lives. This has been well documented over the centuries.

        Having said that, my intention was not to offend anyone older than myself. Rather, I wanted to make the above point that younger minds are more prone to suicide. Pain wise, I’m sure we’re all in a similar boat. Mind you, I have no doubt that some folks have far greater damage to their bodies and mind than others. I strongly believe that the amount of pills / drops / dosage that has gone into each individual plays a huge role in their current state of affairs and potential for recovery. More poison = more DNA damage.

        Barbara, I’m happy for you that you’ve been able to reclaim much of your life. This is not the case with me and like you, I’m also 3 and a half years out. I’m not going to compare symptoms with you because as anyone who had the misfortune of watching me suffer from 50 symptoms will tell you, I’ve been to hell and back (and am still in personal hell). Unlike you, I can only dream of going on a trip. My body and mind will not allow for it. I applaud you for being able to travel though. I see it as a critical part of recovery. Hopefully, one day I can get back to that myself but it seems a long way off at this point.

        Also, this website serves the purpose of letting off steam. My apologies if my wallowing offends you.

        • L May 3, 2018 at 9:06 pm

          no need for apology or explanation! we know what you meant. but I will also tell you I was suicidal for months (in fact most of the first year, and I have a couple decades on you.) I think it really depends on a number of things, including how damaged you are. I was severely damaged, and because it affected my eyes AND I had nerve damage that made it feel like I was being strangled AND I struggled for each breach every moment of the day AND my olfactory nerve damage made everything in the world asphyxiate me (just beyond terrifying) I just really wanted out. Now interestingly, when I was younger, I was on antidepressants for years. But I got off them with turmeric and never looked back. Even when I was grotesquely depressed through this I was done with pharmaceuticals. Bottom line is, this SUCKS for all of us. But I totally get what you were saying. It seems so unfair that you are saddled with this when you should be out just enjoying life. I appreciate your thoughtful response.

        • Barbara Arnold May 3, 2018 at 11:03 pm

          Lukasz….Please understand I did not say, your wallowing offends me, I was in fact talking about my own wallowing. I was merely saying that no matter how depressed I get, I allow myself to wallow and then I get sick of myself and I change my mind get to pull myself out of it. The mind plays a huge part in what we all go through. I to have been to hell and back and have only listed some of the side effects I experienced. Telling you my experience of travel etc was to give you hope that if I can do it at my age, you possibly could do it to at yours maybe sometime in the future. I have tried a ton of things to heal and spent a lot of dough doing so. The things that helped me most were ozone autohemotherapy, hyperbaric therapy and bone broth and CBD OIL AND magnesium. All the other things I really dont know if they helped or not and as we are all different these things have different effects.
          So feel free to let of steam anytime you want to, as we all have here. Please understand that we are all suffering to a lesser or greater degree and we are all here to help each other. I truly hope that it won’t be to long before things change for you, don’t give up because it could happen in the next few weeks or months. Maybe look for some good in every day, that’s what I try to do, and cry when I feel like it. but not for long xx

      • Tara May 14, 2018 at 8:27 am Reply

        I can totally relate! I don’t spend a lot of time on here anymore, but when I am having a bad cycle, “Misery Loves Company”. My nervous system was turned upside down by cipro and flagyl together. I remember reading your post at a few weeks out. I am sorry that this continues for you. This is my fear. I am at 19 months out. I had a lot of hope that I would hit the 18 month mark and be much better (and I was really feeling a lot of progress between months 15-17) and then maybe at 2 years, but the reality is that some people have some issues very long-term… and it scares me to think that I might be one of them. Things do seem to cycle, but my vision issues feel that they could be permanent. My emotions are all over the board. Worry is unrelenting. I try to tell myself that it is just the antibiotic tricking my mind, but it does little when you are actually experiencing the weird neuropathies. I’m past the stage of thinking i’m going to die, but I do worry a lot about suffering. I had a lot of nervous system damage and I just feel like I can’t relate to anyone anymore; like I’m in another dimension. I go through the motions of life, but it is so hard to feel positive emotions and to be present with others. Unless you’ve been dealt this hand in life, you really can’t understand it. I try to explain to my family, who is very supportive, but many have taken Cipro and didn’t have the same response, so they aren’t going to understand totally. And, because I look totally normal on the “outside” and still try to attempt to do everything I did before, I don’t think they quite understand how hard it really is to go through a day. I am extremely sensitive to my environment, especially lighting. My brain has a difficult time processing different lighting conditions and my body reacts differently, depending on the type of lighting I’m in. Sadly, I feel the most normal at night, lying in a dark room.

        Yes, the flat affect is a toxic effect from the FQs for sure, because I don’t think this is natural in anyway! The mental stuff is just as hard as the physical stuff to endure. I was such a joyous and happy person before this happened to me. I had never suffered from these emotions before and NEVER once in my life had ever had a suicidal thought. Now, I am always anxious and irritable and will have just awful and irrational thoughts that come in my mind that I have to work hard to block out each day. I am literally a stranger in my own body. I cry because I can’t be the mother to my children that they deserve and know me to be.

        Yesterday was Mother’s Day and I cried the entire day! My husband showed a video clip of me celebrating my child’s 1st birthday a few years ago and I cried because I was so vibrant and full of life on the video- so excited for the little things. I am such a different person now. My son actually made a card for me at school and called me “the strongest person he knows for having to deal with vision issues and pain from taking medicine.” I’m mad at the effects this has had on my children. A day that usually brought me great joy, I had to try to force a smile through reading my children’s cards because I couldn’t naturally access the positive emotions. It’s like they are locked. I want to be happy, but it’s like my body is not able to be happy. It’s like a switch gets flipped on and off in my body. I never know what the trigger will be. I can start to feel like my “old self” and then just that quickly, the switch turns off again. I get glimmers of hope when I feel like things are returning, and then it goes away and I’m back to being impaired and I always worry that this is the progression of a more permanent condition.

        My vision is wrecked and nobody can tell me how or what to do about it. I go through life every day hoping to wake up and things be magically back to the way they were before I took these drugs. I keep going through the motions of life, but I feel like I am just watching other people enjoy life. It’s probably some sense of depersonalization/derealization. I am paying a dear price for a few Cipro pills for a minor infection that likely would have cleared up without medication. I am in my early 40s and I have had to have my parents and inlaws in their 70s help me to do things that I would normally be doing for them. It took me 8 hours to figure out how to put together a dinner yesterday for Mother’s Day for them that would have normally taken me about 2 hours. Everything was overwhelming. I did it, but I didn’t feel joy doing it and I cried most of the day at how different I am now and fear that this is permanent. [Now, the interesting point here is that last week, I made two breakfast casseroles for Teacher Appreciation Day- no problem, yesterday, I could barely boil water again]. All I could think about was how my life has been ruined by a few pills… My body is not reliable anymore; it works against me. I just feel like something has a hold on me and I can’t shake it loose no matter how hard I try. The problem for all of us is that we know we have issues, there’s just no real blueprint to tell us how to fix them so that they go away. I think for most of us, it’s the insecurity that this experience brings. Most of us have no idea what the H is wrong with us at the cellular level and whether it is even repairable or repairable with time and patience. Right now, I can work, do most of the things that I used to do (they tend to take more time because my mental clarity waivers), and provide for my family. My worry is what if this is progressive and I end up not being able to do this in the future? This has really taken my peace of mind away. What if I feel recovered and then a few years later, this happens all over again? What if this opened “Pandora’s Box” genetically? It would be a lot easier to take if this was all due to magnesium insufficiency and it just took a boatload of magnesium to repair it all.

        My anger toward the people who make, sell, and prescribe these pills is great. How can people sue and recover money for talc powder and cancer or hot coffee accidents and we can’t? You aren’t completely healthy one day- take pills- go to bed- and wake up feeling decades older the next with the mediating factor being the same pills that tens of thousands of others note having the SAME experience to! My whole World View toward things has been tainted by this experience. Everything I knew to be pure and true has been challenged.

        Now, the caveat to this is that in a few days, I will likely read what I wrote today and be at a better place, again, and feel like I’m moving a step forward again, noting that this was likely the “two steps backward” part to healing again… But, for today, I am glad for the friendships that I have made on this website and they will be the glue that holds my sanity together in the interim!

        • Barbara Arnold May 14, 2018 at 8:44 am

          EVERYONE on here totally gets what you have said. You are not alone. You have managed to say exactly what we all feel in such an amazing clear way, thankyou.
          Please will you consider emailing this to the EMA whether you are European or not. It is a very POWERFUL statement and SHOULD BE HEARD. ……Nathalie.Bere@ema.europa.eu

          Big Hugs and love to you. Please don’t think you can’t get better, because I truly believe you can xxxxxxx

        • ciprovictim December 17, 2018 at 1:22 pm

          how are you today?

  47. Ronna May 1, 2018 at 5:37 am Reply

    To Ken Ward, maybe if you could get your doctor to make you a DNR, do no resuscitate, you could get Hospice on board to help relieve symptoms. This would make you more comfortable even though they use medications, your body has been through enough suffering. They’re case social worker may help you with the autopsy arrangements. They work to help you with you last wishes. How are you feeling today?

  48. Dee May 1, 2018 at 7:12 am Reply

    Ken, my heart breaks for you. Whatever you decide I wish you strength and courage. I hate to see you give up as I know some people take several years to recover but do get back some quality of life. I also understand how a person can only suffer so long and wants to find peace again. You sound like you are a very strong person and that strength will guide you and help you. Can you tell more about your story? How much FQ you took? Had you taken it on previous occasions? Are you still young in age? If you don’t want to talk about details I understand and my biggest wish for you is to hopefully maybe to continue to find and believe in more healing to be possible for you and to again find peace and calm. God Bless

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