Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




22,079 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. hopeless December 23, 2018 at 10:01 pm Reply

    wow thats crazy as i have the choking and gagging too, but for a different reason than you as the skin in my face and neck seems to be affected and it squeezes on my neck and i gag and choke and then that creates more severe pressure in my head its terrible. also have those breathing problems too which progressed over time and still 3 years later i have them, it started early with air hunger chest pain and problems getting deep breathes and then got worse, had problems inhaling through mouth to where it became disabling and as you said frightening especially combined with seizures and other stuff going on. also have things in my head and face that physically block my breathing and stuff i dont know this drug really is so bad but the very rare occasion when some of my different symptoms with my chest and pain go down ( this has probably happened a few times only in the past 6 months ) but anyways when that happens i notice that i have a thing where my body involuntary takes a breathe, and the breathe i get is extremely shallow so i am probably like that always its just that when i have the other symptoms with my chest and breathing it kinda goes on top of it. also the suffocation thing you describe i still have 3 years later in varying degrees, i would tell doctors it felt like i was suffocating but they never believed me, also certain seizures that i have give me a terrible suffocation thing that happens and when its like that im in the hospital usually calling ambulances

    Yes I have been on the fence about stem cells, i am not sure i think i would rather atleast try ivs first or something, would stem cells really work when you have so much going on? maybe theres a bit of a risk?

    all the research points to mitochondrial damage but sometimes i even doubt that with all the things going on and then start wondering other stuff like if fq’s made me more susceptible to lyme and other infections etc. i am not really sure.

    I was thinking of getting my mitochondrial genome tested actually, its a bit expensive but theres a company in germany that does it for 4k i think, and then an american one called genedx i believe

    have you seen a mitochondrial doctor, or do you know of anyone after fqs who got their genome done?

    • DP December 24, 2018 at 1:29 am Reply

      Having spent significant time researching and seeing many doctors and neurologist, I have found someone who knows exactly what is going on. I know all of you have spent 1000s on different treatments so I recommend you to invest money on the following blood tests:-

      Voltage-gated Potassium Channel- antibodies


      Most doctors have never even heard of it. What I found in my case is that my immune system has created antibodies which are blocking potassium flow and casing issues with several autoimmune conditions. This directly impacts my peripheral neuropathy and causes fatigue.

      I have seen many specialists and the last neurologist cracked it within minutes of seeing me. My immune system has created antibodies which are now attacking my peripheral nerves, which is directly causing me issues with fatigue.
      This could have been caused by with Cipro or the actual infection that I had.

      I would strongly recommended that you undertake these blood test.

      • Andrea December 24, 2018 at 9:54 am Reply

        Very interesting DP. You’ve ebeen lucky you’ve found a neurologist that would sit down and try to understand your problems. Can I ask you if he, now, that there’s soemething more clear about your situation, he suggested some form of cure?

        • DP December 24, 2018 at 10:15 am

          There are two treatments, plasma exchange or intravenous immunoglobulin but both of them are very expensive and not guaranteed to work. Because of these antibodies, it explains why symptoms have tendencies of returning. I am seeing him again on the 8th and I promise to share all of the information with everyone

        • Andrea December 24, 2018 at 2:09 pm

          Thanks DP. As always be carefoul with your choices.

      • L December 24, 2018 at 10:51 am Reply

        It’s great that your doctor thinks he has found what could be causing your issues, but bear in mind we all have dozens of different kinds of problems, only some of which appear to be neurology-related. Now that he believes this to be your problem, what is he advising as far as treatment?

      • Bob December 24, 2018 at 4:21 pm Reply

        What is a good site to research this?

      • S January 16, 2019 at 5:08 am Reply

        Hi DP – how did you get on at the appointment you mentioned? I’m due to see an Immunologist soon not sure how much they can help…

    • L December 24, 2018 at 10:27 am Reply

      I had the choking too. More of strangling sensation on the outside, which I assumed was nerve damage. Than was in addition to the breathing thing. (Seriously—Stephen King couldn’t have come up with something more terrifying.) I had a history of asthma, but even my worst asthma attack couldn’t hold a candle to this. It was like I would start to take a breath, and then a door would slide shut and just cut it off. Just unimaginable nightmarish. Then I would have to take sleeping pills to get even just one hour respite from the suffocation, but I would jolt up either gasping for air or feeling like I was being strangled.

      I didn’t do the mito testing, but was taking the word of a researcher who suspected that is what it was. As for the IV stems (using my own blood) I truly think they helped. BUT it would very much depend on who does them; what lab is used to prep them to put your blood back in. Some think that using our own damaged cells makes no sense. But I had two different doctors tell me that stems are different and not effected the way the others are. I think perhaps the jury is out on that. But I do believe that using your own blood certainly cuts down on some of the other issues.

      At some point you just have to trust your gut. Mine was telling me to do it (plus because of the whole breathing thing I felt like it was that or it was time to “check out.”) Also, because I was on inhaled steroids for the asthma, I knew I would never get better if I kept taking them. But the thought of having an asthma attack ON TOP of this other breathing issue was just beyond comprehension. So my ND suggested H2O2 IVs. I had seen my last allopath shortly before and knew he had suggested this. I ran it by her. (Out of a dozen doctors she was the ONLY one was both sympathetic and believed at least one of my issues was caused by the cipro. One of thirty!) Anyhow, she said the other IVs were fine eg high dose C, but she said the H2O2 was dangerous and I shouldn’t do it. But I had trust in the ND, like I had not had with any of the MDs, so I went ahead and did it. And after about 6 I was able to wean off my asthma meds…and I was asthma free for the next two years! So when he suggested the stem IVs I just trusted him. (Plus a prior floxie he had treated had done them and wrote me a letter saying that the only issue she was still dealing with was floaters.) So once I got the money (they are not cheap!) I did them.

  2. Attsy December 24, 2018 at 7:49 am Reply

    Just wanted to wish you a very Merry Christmas and a lot of health in New Year 2019!!
    Lets hope we will all get better, I believe in it!

    • Bob December 24, 2018 at 4:30 pm Reply

      Merry Christmas to all.

      • L December 24, 2018 at 4:47 pm Reply

        I was just going to post that as well. I wish for everyone on this sight, Merry Christmas, Joyeux Noel, Happy Channuka, Happy Festivus, or whatever you celebrate. May the new year bring us all improved health.

  3. Attsy December 24, 2018 at 5:19 pm Reply

    Hi guys,
    as my digestion improved a bit my insomnia is starting to get worse 6 months after I took the atb.
    Does anyone have this symptom as well? Is there anything that helped you to get some rest? Thanks!

    • L December 24, 2018 at 6:52 pm Reply

      I am guessing pretty much ALL of us have had that. If you do a word search you can find what helped others. Personally, I tried all the natural supplements, teas, etc and nothing worked. I toughed it out for part of the time and used sleeping pills when I couldn’t breathe, just so I would get a break. I wouldn’t recommend it but if you do, please limit the amount of time you use it. I weaned myself off after my breathing had improved a bit, and I felt like I “tricked” my body to keep falling asleep that way. I took them total for about 3 -4 months. But I would definitely try something natural first.

      • Attsy December 25, 2018 at 9:39 am Reply

        thanks L you are always very helpful, I have Trazodon pills here was thinking to take them but I am scared what might happen (as I am with everything now), I did take them before from time to time with almost no problems, I am going to look what others in previous posts recommended

    • Madge Hirsch December 26, 2018 at 2:07 pm Reply

      My insomnia is always worse in the winter. I think it also has to do with circadian rhythms. I am very sleepy during the day especially on very dull days then I take ages to get to sleep at night. Some people say melatonin helps with this but I take so many supplements I am reluctant to take any more!

      • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 5:54 pm Reply

        Hi Madge, yes the reason I asked because it seems to get worse, so as I see it could be connected with the time of the year, or at least I have it similar as you.

  4. Henk Noordhuizen December 25, 2018 at 8:49 am Reply

    I wish you all a Merry Christmas,and lots of luck and health in the comming year!

  5. Andrea December 25, 2018 at 11:16 am Reply

    Merry Christmas everyone.
    One quick question. I recently started taking some new probiotics. Never had digestive issues, luckily, but since taking PB seems to be very helthy anyway, I started taking them. I’t been more or less 10 days, and I’m sure they’re giving me a lot of bloating. Has anyone ever experienced the same?

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 25, 2018 at 11:35 am Reply

      Pré- and probiotics can cause bloating.Soluble fibers (fermentation) can be a cause,as well.Moving (walking,gymnastics etc.) will help the gasses pass the intestinal track.

      • Andrea December 25, 2018 at 11:58 am Reply

        Yeah. I’m defently eating more fibers lately (veggies,fruits,ect), but I’m quite sure the PB are causing 90% of it

    • Attsy December 25, 2018 at 12:04 pm Reply

      Hi Andrea, Merry Christmas, I have the same bloating after probiotics, I always stop taking them after like two weeks and then take break. Are you going to continue taking them despite bloating?

      • Henk Noordhuizen December 25, 2018 at 12:59 pm Reply

        Might also be dependent on

        which probioticum


        which food (s)

      • Andrea December 25, 2018 at 2:56 pm Reply

        I don’t know. I don’t understan if it’s a normal thing, or a bad thing. Anyway I’m not sure if I’m going to continue

        • Attsy December 25, 2018 at 3:53 pm

          well me neither, I had problems with many probiotics, the only one I could tolerate the best were called Lactospore (someone recommended here)

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 25, 2018 at 4:30 pm

          That was me,and I had some quite astonishing experiences with it.Had a footpoisoning twice,the last one(I hope :-))4 days ago,and both times I had diarrea,but this lasted only 1- 1 1/2 hour! Didn’t feel sick,only a bit weaker (after all;I’m a Floxie,remember?), This time I had,in the following three days,a bit of pain in my upper belly but don’t kow if this was caused by the upset intestinals.Woke up at 4 am this mornin,used my (homebuilt) Magnetic Pulser on it for about 1/2 hour,after which the pain got less,and woke up this morning,pretty tired but with the pain almost gone.Did another round of pulsing right now (just finished),and I hope the pain will not return.

          Still don’t know if this pain was connected with the food poisoning( Blue Brie,should have been oké but wasn’t),but having had food poisoning twice,and both times with a very mild experience I can only explain by me,using this Lactospore every day.My stool is constantly o.k. since I use it,quite different from my pré-Lactospore time.I’m glad I found it! And I’m glad others,too,have good experiences with it.

          Three days ago I used 1 capsule of Magnesium L-Threonate,to see if this positively changes things in the head ,but it gave me a bed sleep,and during the time I was awake I felt very restless.I don’t think this was the cause of the pain in my belly,but,because I did want to have some peacefull Christmas days,as comfortable as can be in the given circumstances,I stopped taking those fore a while.This magnesium form is very expensive,and I can’t afford taking it for longer than a few weeks but that should be enough to see if this is worth the high price.In a few days/weeks I will give it another try and let you all know about my experience.Might somewone else have tried this mag.form,please,let me/us know about it.

        • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 4:30 am

          Yes, Lactospore is good! Just checked magnetic pulser and it’s really expensive to buy and I am not this technically skilled to make it by myself but it seems interesting….
          I am using L-Thyrosin and I have good experience with it, it gives me energy and mood boost, so I can recommend it, but I have Hashimoto and had it before I was floxed. I am looking into L-Threonate (which I have never heard about) will think about buying it (but later, I have now so many things here I can open my own shop :))

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 26, 2018 at 4:58 am

          Magnesium L-Threonate is developed at the MIT,and is promoted as being the only magnesium form able to easily pass the blood-brain barrier.It is very expensive! Makes me wonder;how (what form of magn.) makes it to the brain without using this pills? My answer: magnesium from green leafy foods,and other natural sources.Otherwise mankind would have starved from magn. defficiency in the brain,long ago.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 11:30 am

          Both my integrative MD and my integrative cardiologist told me to take the L-threonate. (I take three caps of LIfe Extensions—two with dinner and one before bed.) It is not only good for all the things we take the mag for to begin with, but also is good for the heart and brain function.

    • Madge Hirsch December 26, 2018 at 2:10 pm Reply

      Yes- I have had burping and bloating with probiotics. I stopped taking them for a bit but restarted today . Have to see how it goes. Bonne année Andrea .

  6. Lukasz December 25, 2018 at 9:10 pm Reply


    My sister-in-law was prescribed Moxifloxacin,a fluoroquinolone, for suspected sinusitis. 400mg for 10 days. 1 tablet daily. She has been taking it for the past 4 days. Within a couple of days of taking the drug she developed several smaller hives on her body. Today she skipped take the pill as she was growing concerned about the spreading hives. These hives are now large, extremely itchy and swollen. She is quickly losing her ability to walk as the large swollen hives are affecting her ankles and knees. She is unable to sit or lie down comfortably either as they are on the sides of her thighs, as well as her elbows. Some are starting to appear on her face now. Mostly joint areas plus a small number near the eyes. My brother took her to the ER where the doctor diagnosed her with a virus and told her to take 50mg of Benadryl and OTC nasal rinse but neither one is helping her. In fact, the hives are appearing in more places and she’s having more and more pain by the minute.

    Anyone have ideas on what we can do to contain this situation? I’m not convinced it’s a virus. I believe she’s experiencing side effects from the fluoroquinolone considering that she’s used Ibuprofen (Advil) to contain her headaches. She had no hives or swelling to speak of prior to taking this drug, just sinus congestion due to acid reflux.

    She’s in a great deal of pain.
    Anyone have suggestions?

    • L December 25, 2018 at 10:30 pm Reply

      Damn it, how do these doctors get through medical school without the ability to READ? It sounds like one possibility is mast cell disorder. A natural mast cell stabilizer is quercitin. Studies have shown it to be just as effective as prescription drugs. IT is also anti-inflammatory which would also help. If it were me I would search on line for the highest safe dosages and try that. (I personally am currently taking it as anti-histamine.)

      • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 5:09 am Reply

        Thanks for your suggestions L. She’s in the care of the medics now. They’ll probably put her on bags of I.V.s. That’s what they did to me when I had my first ever encounter with antibiotics (amoxicillin) which quickly developed into a full body ADR with rashes and hives covering me head to toe. I too was taken to hospital via ambulance, but not from home, I was at work. This was back in 2007.

        But yeah, it’s probably Mast Cell Activation since MCA is caused by fluoroquinolones in the first place.

        • Bob December 26, 2018 at 3:51 pm

          Someone needs to monitor what they are putting in her IV. She could be getting a lot of steroids.

        • Lukasz December 29, 2018 at 9:01 pm

          That’s the thing. 4 different hospitals and not one I.V. treatment applied. Only more pills. Seems a bit odd to me.

    • L December 25, 2018 at 10:34 pm Reply

      BTW I didn’t just pull “mast cell disorder” out of the sky…Lisa had written about a suspected link to flq toxicity, and I personally thing I may have gotten it. I have read that symptoms can change over time, and I have had several over the last few years, including hives covering my torso. https://floxiehope.com/2015/10/01/can-fluoroquinolones-activate-mast-cells/

    • L December 25, 2018 at 10:38 pm Reply

      Also, if it is a sinus infection, I would opt for this (I have used it myself) or sublingual oil of oregano. https://www.amazon.com/Sovereign-Silver-Bio-Active-Hydrosol-Support/dp/B0006OU0AU/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1545802620&sr=8-3&keywords=sovereign+silver+nasal+spray

    • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 4:45 am Reply


      She’s been taken to hospital via ambulance. The ADR spread to most of her face and body, caused massive hives and swelling all over including the eyes so much that one of her eyes was shut closed. I just found out this is Avelox by different name.

      First my 5 year old niece develops a potentially lifetime peanut/nut allergy from amoxicillin mere weeks ago and now this.

      • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 4:49 am Reply

        Awful, that’s massive allergic reaction :O! I am very sorry, how are they treating her now?
        Keep us updated and please don’t forget to report the drug to FDA, it’s dangerous to many.

        • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 5:14 am

          Thanks for your concern Attsy. She’s at the hospital now. My brother’s with her. We’ll find out how she’s doing later on.

      • Henk Noordhuizen December 26, 2018 at 5:28 am Reply

        My God,Lukasz,”for a suspected sinusitis”? After that Dr.,like all other Dr.’s in the EU has received a letter,warning stronly against doing just that? And now he is probably having a nice Christmas and your sister-in-law is in the hospital,suffering by his “mistake?

        For what reason did the Dr. give your little niece get the Amoxicilline? This is a quite risky AB as well.Made me sick for 3 years,untill I found the Beck Protocol,which gave me back part of my life.Never got back to how I was before that Amoxi and Metronidazole in a combined course.A good pré/probiotica might do her well.Don’t use Lactospore,here;does miracles for adults but is NOT recommended for people under 16 years old!

        Anti Biotic means: anti bio (bio=life). They can’t be safe for humans (nor animals) because many human cells are (almost) identical to bacteria and other simple life forms,and then there’s the bacteria,enzymes etc. in the intestines which are of tremendous importance for our health.Like your little niece,I,too,developed allergies after that Amoxicillin,and gained an enormous amount of weight ,from 57 kilo’s,a litthe underweight,to over 80 kilo’s;way to heavy! Before Amox.Gaining (much) weight after AB is,since a Dutch/Belgian discovery,1 1/2-2 years ago,a known fact.Might be the main reason for obesity in modern time.Search Google for Akkermansia bacterie.

        What your sister-in-law has got is probably a severe allergic reaction,and I hope she will soon,and 100% recover from it.The Dr. should have warned her to,with any strange reaction on FQ,stop taking those poison pills immediatly and contact him,which he obviously didn’t. Here (NL) doctors even tell you to NOT read the inlay because “it might needlesly frighten you”.

        I wish you,and your family all the luck in the world! I hope they will have a full recover.

        • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 5:49 am

          Yes Henk, some doctors have these antibiotics as their favorites so they keep prescribing it despite the warning they say they are very effective. For suspected sinusitis there should be some more testing done like swab test to figure out if this is viral or bacterial but not every doctor would do this.
          My doctor also told me not to read the inlay with he same sentence (Czech Rep.)
          I really hope Lukasz’s sinter in law will recover soon and wish her well.

        • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 1:51 pm

          Yup. She was originally on Amoxicillin for a week or so and then paid another visit to the same doctor, who works at a walk-in clinic btw, and he prescribed the FQ to her. The reason I bring up the walk-in clinic is because all my incidents with antibiotics also occurred at walk-in clinics. These places are honestly death traps! He upgraded her to Moxifloxacin and the rest is history. Ironically enough, I too was ‘upgraded’ from Amoxicillin to Clarithromycin AFTER I told the doctor that I was allergic to Amox. These doctors are exploiting our lack of knowledge on the subject and upgrading us to deadly antibiotics. I guess this letter you speak of never reached the Canadian doctors since they’re clearly in the field of poisoning people to this very day. And yes, our Christmas WAS destroyed by this physician. My sister-in-law was in excruciating pain on both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. By Christmas Day, she was just about paralyzed by this drug. As for his Christmas, I’m sure the blood money will go a long way in making him “HAPPY”. It MIGHT even buy him a new sports car down the road.

          As for my niece, she was prescribed Amoxicillin for a suspected sinus infection. She became itchy and developed rashes on her body similar to the ones I developed in 2007. She was NEVER allergic to peanuts or nuts but after the antibiotic, whenever she touches anything with peanuts or nuts in it, she starts to get itchy and the rashes start to appear. She’s 5 years old FFS. How could these physicians not know by now that Amoxicillin can lead to peanut/nut allergies. I’m pretty sure she’s not the first one to develop this allergy after taking penicillin. This is CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR and now she has to avoid peanuts/nuts EVERYWHERE she goes. She’s the sweetest kid. I can’t even tell you how steamed I am about this. And that sinus issue, it’s still there. Sorry to hear that this same poison affected your life. I hope you continue to recover. Thanks, I’ll see if she’s taking any pre / probiotics and if not, advise my sister-in-law.

          Re: Lactospore for adults. Can you tell me if this one here is reputable?

          It’s the only one I can find for sale in Canada. Does one have to take probiotics with this or does this replace probiotic use? Should we be combining it with Inulin powder?

          Sorry to hear about the allergies. I know all about them. Post-antibiotics, I’m allergic to wheat, dairy and seafood. I hate this way of life since my diet is so greatly reduced.

          “Luckily” my sister-in-law took only 4 days worth of pills (4 pills total), so hopefully the damage won’t be significant but we’ll have to see how she’s feeling in the coming days.

          Thank you for the advice and well wishes, Henk. We really appreciate it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 26, 2018 at 2:30 pm

          Lukasz,I don’t know the brand of that Lactospore in Canada;I bought mine from a webshop in Great Britain which has a dutch frontend as wel.There I can pay in Euro’s and use the Ideal pay-system.Warning: both my Lactospore and my Inulin have a warning on the container: NOT suitable for people UNDER 16 nyears bold! I don’t know what restrictions are on the brand you want to buy;you might first want to send that webshop a mail,asking about it before buying.For your sister in law it might be worth trying,but for your little niece you might try other probiotics like fermented vegetables and kefir.

          After the Amoxicillinand Metronidazole course (2004) I had a very unstable bloodsugar level/carbo intolerance,got sick from all the hyper’s and hypo’s,and loose stools for 3 years.Then I found (back) info about the Bob Beck protocol and built the devices.After just two weeks of using the magnetic pulser my stool was normal and my bloodsugar levels stable,but,were I ate 6-8 slices of bread in a meal I couldn’t eat more than 1 1/2 to 2 slices now without getting a hyperglycemea,and had several allergies I never had before.Some have gotten less severe since than,untill,2 years ago I got this terrible Cipro experiance.Only 2 days,2 x 500 mg/day,changed my life again now I’m in even more troubles than I was in 2004.

          Magnetic Pulser helped once again with making my bloodsugar steady but other problems kept on adding to the misery (tendons,double vision,(nerve?) pains traveling from one place to another;sometimes I feel like my mind was transfered from my own body into another body,one which barely survived a terrible war.Hard to believe that just 4 pills can do that to you.

          I hope both your sister-in-law and your little niece will find a total recovery,and soon! Don’t hesitate to ask,when you might have questions I might be able to answer.

        • Bob December 26, 2018 at 4:20 pm

          I hope you go tell the doctor what a stupid a**hole he is.

        • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 3:47 pm

          Alright Henk, good stuff. I’m going to give both Lactospore and Inulin a go. I don’t think the probiotics I’m taking are doing enough.

          Man, I’m sorry to hear that you got hit a second time with Cipro. I hope this is the last time you have to go through this type of ordeal.

          You’re right though. This whole experience feels like a fierce internal war. It feels like a couple of bombs were dropped into the body.

          So how does one get their hands on this magnetic pulser? Is it safe to use?

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 26, 2018 at 4:21 pm

          The first course,in 2004,was not with Cipro but with a mix of Amoxicciline and Metronidazole.Had to stop taking those after 5 days (of 7).And 2 years ago came the Cipro experience.

          Lactospore passes the stomach (-acid) undamaged;that’s the reason it works so good.And the inulin helps heal the intestinals and delivers food for the Lactospore and other probiotics.

          I advise everybody who wants to try the Magnetic Pulser to,first,build one theirselves because it is so very simple.You only need an old photoflash,preferably a powerfull one, a copper coil (easy to find and buy on the web;I use the Visaton 5032),and a piece of electric wire.Open the flash,disconect one of the wires,attached to the flash tube,and connect the coil to both the tube. and the wire you disconnected from the tube.Now the flash tube and the coil are in series,meaning: the electric pulse that went through the tube now goes through both the tube ánd the coil.That’s all.

          The succes I had in 2007,after 3 years of problems from the Amox. and the Metronidazole,was with tis homemade Magnetic Pulser.Later on,in a period,less poor,I bought the wellbuilt devises from Sota (a Canadian company which started building and selling these with the permission fo Bob Beck) Those devices are expensive,but will last much longer and are more comfortable to use.


          At the moment I’m doing the Beck protocol,well,part of it.I use the Magnetic Pulser and the Silver Pulser (the MP I use on painfull places,which change in location;seems to be “the normal thing” after Cipro.And I use the Bio Tuner to help my memory,and lift my down feelings,1 or 2 times a week.Also the MP on my eyes,in the hope that MP and BT will help me get my normal vision back.This,after several weeks,seems to work;had 4 or 5 days in a row with only a few short instances a day with double vision,but it’s way to early to give a party;Cipro is known for it’s nasty suprises and relapses.

        • Lukasz December 29, 2018 at 10:21 am

          Thanks Henk. I appreciate all the info re: Lactospore and the Magentic Pulser.

      • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 8:33 am Reply

        So sorry to read all this Lukasz.
        Anyway, I know this isn’t the right time to wright this, but start thinking about a lawsuit. This is incredible! Do you live in Europe? If so, this doctor acted improperly, according to the new laws about FQs. As I worte in a previous post, I think the only thing that would change something about these wild prescriptions, are lawsuits. They seem to really don’t understand that anytime you take a FQ pill is like playing russian roulette. Please keep us updated on your sister in law situation.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 26, 2018 at 10:44 am

          Andrea,I am afraid a lawsuit will be difficult. The EU didn’t create new lawas about how to prescribe FQ’s but new advices.Strict advises,but still only advises.Looks like,after all,they want to protect doctors and farmaceutical compenies,not (damaged) patients.

          Your Mag.L-Theonate is a liquid? Mine are capsules.I’m very curious of your experience with it;please,keep me/us informed.

          I ordered the Sota Ozonator,a few days ago.Unlucky me;Sander,from Zapper.nu,gave the last in stock to his brother,a few days earlier.Mine is ordered at Sota now,and he will send it to me as soon as it arrives.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 12:07 pm

          There is still a LOT of warning information out there on these drugs, and it was used when a condition was only suspected. This is malpractice. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/905023

        • L December 26, 2018 at 12:09 pm

          well apparently that link requires you to log in, but here is the beginning of the article: “EMA Curtails Use of Fluoroquinolone, Quinolone Antibiotics
          Megan Brooks
          Disclosures November 16, 2018
          10Read Comments

          A committee for the European Medicines Agency (EMA) has recommended suspending entirely or restricting the use of fluoroquinolone and quinolone antibiotics because of the risk for “disabling and potentially permanent” adverse effects, the agency announced today.
          The EMA Committee for Human Medicinal Products (CHMP) endorsed recommendations put forth in October by the agency’s Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee (PRAC). The committee concluded that marketing authorization for medicines containing cinoxacin, flumequine, nalidixic acid, and pipemidic acid should be suspended

        • L December 26, 2018 at 11:49 am

          I completely agree. not only because money seems to be the only language they understand, but I don’t think things will change until they are INUNDATED with suits.

          Other important considerations are statute of limitations…the time that the suit must be filed by. IT varies by country and by state. IT can also take a while to find an attorney. And as we all know, this gets EXPENSIVE. Often at the time it happens, a lawsuit is the last thing you want to think of…and you think “oh it will be over soon anyhow.” Only it doesn’t end, and the treatments end up piling up. So I could not agree more Andrea.

        • Bob December 26, 2018 at 4:08 pm

          Me too, this idea that doctors are protected by the FDA or whatever criminal govt organization was set up to protect the pharmaceutical mobsters has got to go. Legally the doctor is responsible for the treatment. If the doctor ignores the latest research and recommendations then they should be liable. Once one of these hack doctors gets a big judgement against them the others will take notice. I wish I had pursued suing the doctor.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 11:50 am

          Also, just for information, what someone needs is not just a medical malpractice attorney, but hopefully one that specializes in pharmaceutical error.

        • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 12:29 pm

          I don’t want to discourage anyone but when I put an official complain I got reply that nothing was done incorrectly and that this is not malpractice although this cost me half year of my life and lost of the job also huge physical and mental pain which is now better. I was also told that lawsuit would do nothing because these pills are commonly prescribed with very rare side effect. Maybe it would work in some other EU country, I don’t know. Unfortunately I could not react immediately, I was completely “off” for four months and didn’t even think antibiotics could do some much harm.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 12:42 pm

          They always say those things. We have to stop being cowed by them. I sued both the doctor and pharmacy (ended up dropping the doctor only because I had two enormous law firms against just me, burying me in discovery requests, and I was still very very ill.) They all answer the complaint saying “there is nothing here.” The pharmacy board here also found nothing. They were wrong. You have to IGNORE all the noise they put out there. They all try to protect each other. You just keep forging ahead.

        • Bob December 26, 2018 at 4:18 pm

          You have a lot of guts L, good for you.

        • Bob December 26, 2018 at 4:16 pm

          If you could find a lawyer to take the case a jury may see this quite different than the corrupt FDA or whatever govt agency is involved.

        • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 2:00 pm

          I understand how difficult is to just think about a lawsuit. And I also understnad how difficult is the probability to win in a courtroom. I just wrote, what I would do. I’ve contacted a lawyer some time ago, but he said that without a visible (or at least confirmed by another doctor) proof of the damage done by the AB, the chanses to win would be almost 0. Plus there’s another thing to keep in mind, at least here in Italy, I don’t know the law in other countires, and that is that, if you sue the doctor, and then he wins the lawsuit, he could sue you for defamation. Imagine that, he poisoned you and then you have to pay him money too…
          Anyway Lukasz, wrote about hives ( a visible proof). Plus, with this new restricitons, I think a lawyer would be more prone to accept a case.
          Anyway, I don’t want to encourage anyone to do anything. That was just a suggestion, what I would do. I think it’s crazy that, even after a specific restriciton, these dumbasses are still prescribing this s**t like candies.

          Henk, the magnesium is in capsules. From life extension. Look it up.
          Anyway I’ll let you how it makes me feel, as soon as I start taking it 🙂

        • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 2:14 pm


          No. We reside in Canada. IT IS Russian Roulette. I’ve said this before myself, but it’s also exploitation of the general public. These pharmaceutical companies and doctors are exploiting our lack of knowledge on the subject of medicine. They KNOW that we don’t know much about pharmaceutical drugs and are prescribing us DEADLY drugs.

          This s**t has to stop!

          How many lives are they going to take? How many lives are they going to destroy? Four years on, I’m still a wreck. I know of people who are 16 years deep into their toxicity and they’re still messed up! So I ask, when will these criminal matters stop?

          I’ve searched high and far in this country for a lawyer that would take on my case. I’ve yet to find one that will take on my case. If I can’t find a lawyer, my sister-in-law might have a hard time finding one herself. Her case is easier to take on than mine because her wounds are fresh, and she has the remaining pills, but it’ll be difficult nevertheless.

      • L December 26, 2018 at 11:32 am Reply

        I am so sorry. And so pissed off. Please keep us posted. I worry about the pharmaceutical “treatments” they will give her. I hope when this is over she can find an integrative MD to help fix all the damage.

        • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 3:11 pm

          LATEST UPDATE:

          She’s been released from hospital. The allergy on her face is improved but her lower extremities continue to be covered in hives especially her knees, ankles and now her feet as well. It’s very red and swollen in those areas. I know FQs love to seek shelter in tissue so I’m concerned that this is what may be taking place. She is still in a lot of physical pain and has a great deal of anxiety that she is dealing with. Overwhelming anxiety in fact. I don’t think she got any sleep last night so that’s not helping either. I’ve been without sleep for the past 48 hours so I’m also starting to get the shakes myself.

          Anyway, the paramedics administrated EpiPen (epinephrine) in the ambulance. In the hospital itself the doctor prescribed another drug, Prednisone, 50mg once daily, which she took in the hospital. She’s been told to take it again tomorrow and the day after until the ADR is contained. I’m concerned as hell because this is another steroid going into her recently floxed body and we all know the part steroids play in the FQT chain reaction. If it helps her great, but I don’t want her to suffer permanent side effects from it. She’s gone home to rest now. I’ll try to update again sometime down the line if/when there’s any news from their camp.

          Thanks for all your concern.
          You guys are wonderful ppl.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 4:24 pm

          Luckaz. No not prednisone!!!! Bad news. Please research! I’m my phone and not able to send anything more

        • A.Coleman December 27, 2018 at 7:23 am

          Lukasz – As L said if you are pretty sure your sister-in-law is suffering from a fluroroquinolone reaction you don’t want her on prednisone. That is a steroid and all steroids should be avoided by Floxies. I understand why the doctors prescribed it for a rash but I would urge you to research this site for more on these relationships of floxies who also took steroids and make a urge your sister-in-law to make an informed decision before she continues. The prednisone will help the rash but will cause all kinds of other floxie problems if she is having a flox reaction.

          Remember – after fluoroquinolones – no steriods and no NSAID pain relievers. I know how much the NSAIDs messed me up. I think if some uneducated nurse practioner hadn’t told me to take the NSAIDs my own FQ reaction would have been much milder.

          Here is the first hit I got when Googling fluoroquinolones and steroids from the Pharmacy Times read it then suggest your sister-in-law stop the steroids.


          Good luck

        • L December 27, 2018 at 10:55 am

          Thanks for reaffirming this. I especially got nervous when I heard she was given prednisone, because I am convinced that is the reason I was so badly damaged. Just for a recap (that doesn’t even include everything): Gasping for every breath for months, like I was being suffocated 24/7; olfactory nerve damage where ALL things asphyxiated me. Not just a sensitivity but horrifying asphyxiation. Couldn’t go outside. if someone drove me to a doctor they could have no lotion on, no coffee in the car. Really terrifying…like being constantly surrounded by open vats of bleach. I had horrible pelvic pain, like crushed glass inside (interstitial cystitis ); sensation of being strangled; tinnitus; lots of vision damage—macular degeneration, so many floaters it was like look through gauze for the first year; extreme light sensitivity and for about the first two months I could not see more than a few feet ahead AND I was seeing two different images…not double vision, but each eye was seeing something separate and my brain was not melding them together as it would normally do; sound sensitivity; olfactory hallucinations; tendonitis; torn menisucus and assorted other stuff like hair coming out in chunks, hives, etc. also just destroyed my gut. Lost 1/ 4 of my body weight in 2 weeks and between that the damage to collagen, it just destroyed the skin on my arms and legs. I also had peripheral neuropathy. numb and spasming fingers and numb toes. Then all the nightmarish mental side effects that were indescribable.

          So, while she had been off the cipro, we know how this poison lingers in our bodies. I would never want anyone to endure the torture I have been through, so when I read she was given prednisone, it freaked me out.

          Lukasz…please if she has access to an integrative MD or functional MD or nd, that would be the best thing. Someone who could treat her without adding more poisons to her body. And no matter who she sees, I recommend taking a couple of the Dear Doctor letters with her https://floxiehope.com/tag/dear-doctor-letter/
          and maybe also something printed out about fluoroquinolone associated disability.

        • Lukasz December 29, 2018 at 10:06 pm

          A.Coleman / L.,

          I’m just as concerned about the steroids (Prednisone) as anyone and I’ve made it clear to my sister-in-law, my brother and parents, all of whom are involved in the ordeal, that taking Prednisone will only further compromise her health. I couldn’t be more clear about that. Yet the decision was made to take the steroid medication because of fear that the allergy would worsen. Since she’s been taking the steroid, there’s been little to no improvement. In fact, more hives and swelling appeared and her legs were even turning blue this morning. When I saw her legs at the hospital, some spots had a gray tone to them as if there was blood vessel damage below.

          I’m no doctor but my best guess is Angioedema. Yesterday and today, her eyes were swollen (she looked like she was in a boxing match), her lips were swollen (same type of swelling), she had large hives on parts of her face especially on the corners of the forehead and near the eyes as well. The same hives are visible on most of her body. Shoulders, stomach, back, legs, arms, hands, feet, you name it. Joint areas are most swollen. All signs point to Angioedema caused by either Azithromycin or Moxifloxacin, but most likely Moxifloxacin (Avelox).

          Here’s the lowdown on Angioedema. It describes her well:
          I believe what she’s suffering here is Allergic Angioedema.

          Levaquin/Cipro/Avelox Class Action Lawsuit For Injured Canadians:

          Drug Law Center – Lawsuits Re: Avelox Use For Injured Americans:

        • L December 30, 2018 at 11:51 am

          can’t remember if I already mentioned this, but another possibility that is linked to flqs is mast cell disorder, which includes hives. What happens is your body just starts pumping out histamine. It’s quite likely a combination of things.

        • L December 30, 2018 at 11:54 am

          A few things about class action suits. First, they can take years (sometimes decades) to conclude. Second, the big winners are the attorneys, as the number of plaintiffs split the pot after the attorneys take their cut, about 33-40%. Third, if you end up filing your own suit, they will drop you from theirs. (Happened to me.) Better than nothing, but not the panacea most hope for.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 12:17 pm

          It might be better to bombard EMA,FDA etc. with petitions.There’s Avaaz,SumOfUs,WeMove.EU.One.org and more.They’ve shown that we,the people,DO have power,if united!

          Let’s demand ( not just ask) mandated rules for not only Dr.s but for the whole medical industry, instead of restriction advices.For sanctions and punishments instead of a simple slap on the hand. What they’re doing nowadays is not just “making mistakes”;it looks more like genocide by medicines to me.Too much suffering,too much people killed by this insane lunatics. Only heavy penalties could end this global nightmare! Those new rules will not change a thing,only put the sheeples back asleep.

        • Attsy December 30, 2018 at 1:13 pm

          Henk, I would definitely sign such petition, if there is one!

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 1:23 pm

          Hi Attsy,why not starting one,yourself? Anyone can start a petition on one of the petition websites I mentioned.

        • Attsy December 30, 2018 at 1:26 pm

          Hi Henk, will check, did you start any?

        • L December 30, 2018 at 1:34 pm

          couldn’t hurt! I am still on a writing campaign myself. Next up, a documentary film maker.

        • Lukasz December 30, 2018 at 5:58 pm

          Good idea, L. Certain Adverse Events (2009) was the first and last documentary I’ve seen which addresses antibiotics head-on.

      • Bob December 26, 2018 at 3:49 pm Reply

        This makes me sick to hear<

  7. Andrea December 26, 2018 at 8:41 am Reply

    Hi guys. I’m very interested in finding a way to try to cure or at least to ease the pain for my chronic pelvic/bladder pain syndrome. I was reading a lot about alternative remedies. I’ve found a doctor ( an urologist) here in Italy, who practice a therapy using ozone directly into the bladder, with a syringe or with a catheter. He also use carbone dioxide for the same issues. Since I’ve read some of you tried ozone therapy, I’d like to read some of your thoughts, expecially your concernes, if you have some. Thanks.

    • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 2:46 pm Reply

      I’ve had bladder issues ever since the last two ADRs and I’m looking for a solution as well. In fact, I’m desperate for a solution because it’s only getting worse and I’m worried about a bladder infection or bladder cancer wiping me off this planet. I’ve been having mild to moderate pain in that area for a good few weeks now but I’ve sensed something was not right with my bladder since I was poisoned in 2014 and again in 2015. I haven’t urinated the same since the incidents. Coupled with my IBS-type symptoms, it feels like all systems down.

      I’ve done both HBOT treatments and 10-pass ozone treatments but these treatments didn’t help in that department. Please let me know if you find something that works, Andrea. Grazie!

      • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 3:00 pm Reply

        Lukasz, try to clam down. You’re not going to get cancer. And if you’re worried about a bladder infection try to consume a lot of cranberry juice (pure without any crap added in it) and take d-mannose. I had bladder problems since a surgey I had back in 2015. It was a varicocele surgery. No doctor ever found a connection. But I’m sure that after the FQ, my symptoms only got WAY worse and I’ve read about many people here with the same problems. I’ve spoke to some people at the hearing in London, with the same problems. It’s probaly due to two facts. At least that’s just my take on it :
        1 FQs damage the nervous system, so bladder = Autonomic nervous system
        2 FQs increase oxidative stress. More oxitadive stress, more inflamamtion, more chanses to get cystitis and so on.

        • Lukasz December 26, 2018 at 3:28 pm

          Thanks Andrea. I’ll try those recommendations.

          Your take seems accurate. My nervous system is a wreck. I know that for certain. I used to be really easy going and miss that about myself. And the reason I worry about cancer is because there’s many stories out there of people taking FQs and developing cancer down the line. I believe Lisa even posted some articles in relation to this.

          I’ll try the juice and d-mannose and see what happens. Thanks again.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 4:34 pm

          I agree with calming down but you can’t downay the seriousness of these toxins. They destroy mitochondrial dna and mito damage us linked to Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, ALS and tea, even cancer

        • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 5:15 pm
        • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 5:22 pm

          Anyway, keep in mind that d mannose is only good for preventing a UTI, not to treat one. Plus, are you sure you pain is due to a UTI? could be something else, like in my case.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 6:40 pm

          true. they just keep the little buggers from “sticking.” Another good addition is Herb Pharm’s Urinary System support. That was part of my treatment for getting rid of UTI without medication. I still think it is interstitial cystitis, which is linked to flqs. I am sure that is what I had. (and again, what helped me was acupuncture and Chinese medicine. IT eventually went away)

        • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 5:45 pm

          L, I’m not denying the seriousnees of these toxins. But always remembering to someone, expecially if he’s very worried and anxious, like Lukasz seems to be right now, how dangerous and terrible these drugs are, to me, doesn’t sound like the best thing to do. Plus, remember the power of our mind. If you keep thinking about how bad you feel, or in this case, how bad you COULD feel in the future, it ain’t gonna help. On the other hand, trying to relax, as much as you can, and trying to be positive, is going to help. at least a little. Just my opinon of course 🙂

        • L December 26, 2018 at 6:41 pm

          NO, I truly do agree with you. I just don’t want to downplay someone’s concerns either, because they are warranted. But yeah, we’re on the same page!

        • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 5:52 pm

          I do agree with Andrea, calming down is the best thing to do now. The power of the mind can do wonders sometimes. I used to think a lot about cancer and dying but now I decided to be more proactive and go to the doctors to check if it’s ok and in the meantime trying things suggested here, a lot of rest and try to occupy my mind with different things. But I agree it’s very hard. Lukasz you might try to go to visit some urologist just to be sure?

        • L December 26, 2018 at 6:45 pm

          I had actually gone to a uroglogist when I was suffering horrible pain…felt like I had crushed glass inside. He did an ultrasound and it showed NOTHING…like most tests do with floxies. Sadly I don’t think a urologist would be of any help…like other allopaths

        • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 6:49 pm

          I am actually visiting one in January, if the test shows nothing (“nothing”) then I am happy….I mean just to be sure

        • L December 26, 2018 at 6:52 pm

          yeah. that’s worth the insurance paying. I am guessing it won’t show anything.

        • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 6:23 pm

          I’m doing the same Attsy. Today, I’m just “using” doctors to do physical exams, to see if everything it’s ok eg : Electrocardiography, blood test etc. But then, if they prescribe something to me, I just say, “ok”, then go home and do my research on everything, and then decide what to do. The time when I blindly took everything these doctors have to prescribe are over. I did used some medications after being floxed, but only after reading A LOT. Today, there’re still days when I feel so frustrated, anxious and depressed about the whole situation, but, what can I do about it? I still try to put a foot after another, and if soemthing it’s going to happen, which is a realistic possibility, I’ll try my best to help myself in that situation.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 6:47 pm

          Yep. Exactly what I do. (Although I do have an integrative MD so his first response is always supplements, not drugs.)

        • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 6:51 pm

          yes I got some antiepileptic pills for my nerve pain but after research decided not to take them so I am doing the same things as you guys

        • L December 26, 2018 at 6:52 pm

          was that gabapentin by chance?

    • Bob December 26, 2018 at 3:55 pm Reply

      Sounds like it would be worth a try. I can’t see any downside.

    • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 6:56 pm Reply

      Carbamazepin (Timonil retard), did you get gabapentin?

    • Attsy December 26, 2018 at 6:58 pm Reply

      and for that urologist, yes L, I do think the same as you, it won’t show anything but still I am that scared, I think I would get some new antibiotics at worst (if the UTI still persists)

      • L December 26, 2018 at 7:23 pm Reply

        I so wish I could find the exact protocol for this, but I cured a UTI after all this with no antibiotics. It was supposed to take two weeks and took a month, but I was so grateful to get this help from an ND. Sadly, she is no longer in practice (had to stop after a heart issue caused by an allopath, finally became too serious.) BUT here are the ingredients. The thing is, I know it changed each day. It started with very high amount of Vitamin A and then decreased each day, but here is what was used: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, d-mannose and Herb Pharm’s Urinary System Support, I do remember the A started very high, like 150,000 units, but then you took less each day. Same with Vitamin C. And I remember taking the D mannose every few hours, and going through bottles of it. If you could find a female ND I imagine she would know what the exact protocol is, because I am sure mine learned it in school. Anyhow I got into this whole cipro mess thanks to a UTI and then I got another one very quickly again after that. (Or maybe the first never went away completely.) I was so glad to find a ND who actually helped me get rid of it without any drugs!

        • Attsy December 27, 2018 at 3:33 am

          Hi L, thank you a lot for this, I appreciate it! This is worth a try, I didn’t know what to do with it, I am going to try this, I need to get rid of it.

        • L December 27, 2018 at 10:44 am

          I wish I could remember the amounts. I recall it was a lot and I was doing it throughout the day. I remember doing two dropperfuls of the herb pharm, and I think it was like 4 times a day. I also remember doing the dmannose literally every two hours, but I don’t remember the amount. maybe 2000 mg? (I used a powder at home and then had capsules for when I was out.) The C I think was around 1000 and I remember doing that like 3 times a day. The one I am pretty sure of is that the A started high around 150,000 and dropped 25,000 each day. I hope that helps. Again I imagine a naturopath especially a female one would know this.

      • Attsy December 28, 2018 at 12:51 pm Reply

        thanks L, I took just d mannose last year in September but didn’t know about this combination, will try this and let you know how it goes….

        • L December 28, 2018 at 1:03 pm

          yeah, the d mannose is really just preventive. its use in the protocol is keep the little suckers from hanging on, and make them more easily eliminated. wish I could recall the exact amounts but I think I was pretty close. IT’s pretty “labor intensive” in that you are doing things like the d mannose every couple of hours…but so worth it not to have to take antibiotics!

      • Madge Hirsch December 28, 2018 at 3:25 pm Reply

        I had a mild UTI in September that I got rid of with an oil of oregano and d- mannose combo. I took the oregano oil for a fortnight.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 1:26 pm Reply

      Andrea,ozone is known to be dangerous for the lungs,when you inhale it.I suppose this means it is also dangerous for your bladder!

      • L December 30, 2018 at 1:40 pm Reply

        I don’t thin there is a correlation there. But you are right about the lungs. EG they have these little ozone tents you can sit in, with your head sticking out the top. But I have been warned against these, because even though it is closed at the neck opening, some will inevitably leak up and into your face. But ozone is delivered right into the blood street. I also had it injected into my knees in a prolozone treatment, after I ended up with torn meniscus post cipro. Along the same lines, it is also injected into tendons, for ruptures, as well as used for for arthritic joints. I am not familiar with it being injected into actual organs, but it is used quite extensively in connective tissues.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 1:55 pm

          Ozone is quite corrosive; my Ozonator even has a build in carbon filter to protect it against damaging and/or destroying itself.And it has stainless steel electrodes in the ozonator chamber for prolonged life.

          the human skin might tolerate quite high concentrations of ozone but the tissue in lungs,intestines and bladder is a lot more sensitive.I gues it’s not pure ozone,used here. ozone is a gas,and will probably be deluted in water,like I do with my Ozonator.

        • L December 30, 2018 at 2:04 pm

          well when it is given as an injection like I had in my knees it is mixed with procaine. (Even though that’s an anesthetic, it is not used for that purpose. It actually helps the ozone do its work.) It saved my knees!

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 1:59 pm

          And I really don’t know of any mechanism by which ozone could help with ruptured tendons;never read about such thing..I do know it’s very popular in germany.

        • L December 30, 2018 at 2:06 pm

          It helps the body repair itself naturally. It takes several months for it to work. This site give some good explanations. https://www.venturisclinic.com/treatments/prolozone-ligament-repair/

        • Bob December 30, 2018 at 2:34 pm

          Ozone breaks down into oxygen very rapidly. Oxygen helps the healing.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 3:08 pm

          Ozone (O3) breaks down in O2 (the Oxygen we breath),and O,a free radical,which is potentially dangerous (in high concentrations).

  8. Andrea December 26, 2018 at 8:55 am Reply

    PS Henk, a few days ago I’ve ordered a bottle of magnesium L threonate. As soon as I receive it, I’ll let you know my experience.

  9. melissam December 26, 2018 at 6:51 pm Reply

    Hey guys!
    I’m asking a question for a friend and fellow floxie. She’s ten months out and having a feeling in her head like she’s drunk but without the alcohol. She claims all her days are blurring together and ten months passed and she doesn’t remember any of it. When she looks in the mirror she doesn’t recognize herself. Everything she eats also makes her head feel crappy and she’s developed food sensitivities/allergies. For those that have had similar symptoms and have fully recovered (even past that 10 month mark!), please write and let me know how long it took to fully resolve and also when it began to fade away. I am really wanting to offer this young mom hope! She’s so scared that she will always feel like she’s in the twilight zone with this depersonalization and derealization. She feels like she is among the more severe cases as far as the brain part of floxing goes, and my brain wasn’t as affected as hers so I can’t offer the same hope as someone who has been there. Thank you much in advance.

    • L December 26, 2018 at 7:06 pm Reply

      Well I had trouble with pretty much all food, so I lived on smoothies for a year with just organic berries, banana, organic spinach…that sort of thing. I already was eating a healthy diet, but I am even more rigid now. I cut out gmos, gluten, sugar, any meats that could have antibitoics. For the first 1 1/2 years I also cut out coffee, wine, chocolate, you name it. I have slowly added things back in, but still avoid GMOs, gluten, meat whose origin I don’t know. The food sensitivities seem to have fallen by the wayside, but it took almost two years.

      The head stuff is tough. I can’t even put into words what would accurately describe the horror I went through..a mix of severe depression, suicidal ideation, extreme anxiety, paranoia. It was like I was living with the creature I didn’t know, that had taken over my mind. Just terrifying. I can empathize because I just wanted out. Every moment of the day was like being in the twilight zone. Just so frightening. BUT it did eventually go away. I can’t say for sure what did or didn’t help. I had over 100 IVs including some stem cell ones.

      I can remember very clearly sitting in my chair, getting my umpteenth IV, about a year or so into it. And someone said something and I made a joke. And they laughed, and I remember thinking “oh my god! I’m back!” Because humor had always been a huge part of who I am. And I hadn’t laughed or even found anything remotely funny for well over a year.

      She is lucky to have you as a friend. Sadly, too many, just don’t believe us, or think we’re exaggerating. There is really no way to truly understand how tormenting this all is. Like some big experiment, and we are all the guinea pigs. I would make sure she is avoiding fluoride in toothpaste and water and anything else (green tea!); avoiding steroids and NSAIDs; eating clean as much as possible (if she is losing weight and having trouble getting stuff down, load a smoothie up with coconut oil, almond butter, that sort of thing.) If she can find a trusted ND or integrative doctor, esp one that has treated floxies, that would be the ideal situation..esp if they offer IVs. It can get very expensive, but then, what is the alternative?

      • melissam December 26, 2018 at 7:18 pm Reply

        So nice of you to respond! And a very helpful response that I have passed on already. Thank you for sharing your personal story of hope.

    • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 7:32 pm Reply

      you’re asking a question that nobody can answer. “how long it took to fully resolve and also when it began to fade away?” . I wish someone could answer these questions you’ve asked. I think everyone who’s dealing with FQ induced damage, would love to know the answer. First of all, I don’t think, you can “fully recover”. At least not 100%. I don’t think you could ever return the person you were before the FQ. Yes, you can improve, a lot too. But, sorry,( to anyone reading this) I don’t think there’s such a thing as “fully recovered”. For the second part, “when it began to fade away”, this is really impossible to answer. Some of us see improvements in less than six months, some of us in a few years, some of us never see an improvement and some of us just keep getting worse and worse. In my case, I’ve experienced the worst part of this misery after 5-6 months from my first (and only) FQ exposure. It lasted 2-3 months, and then I finally saw a major improvement. But I defenitly don’t consider myself healed. Yes, compared to some people, I consider myself VERY lucky, but you always have to keep in mind the relapses. You never know, why or what caused them. Recently, a guy on this website,wrote about a terrible relapse he was experiencing after 9 YEARS. He was doing pretty good in the meantime.
      I’m sorry, I know this is not the answer you were expecting, but at least it’s brutally honest.

      PS does your friend drink coffee or any other form of caffeine? If so, I strongly reccomend her to give it up. I’m almost sure that one of the thing that saved me from the relapse was avoiding caffeine. It’s terrible for me (and for many others).

      • melissam December 27, 2018 at 5:36 am Reply

        I understand what you are saying. I’ll mention the coffee/caffeine part. I guess if she had heard from others who have said “the mind thing was bad from me but after 12 months or 14 months or 2 years it cleared up”…she would have hope and would feel she is still within the realm of normal, if that makes sense.

        I felt fear thinking of experiencing a terrible relapse at 9 years out. Is this something we will always have to fear? Ugh.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 27, 2018 at 7:05 am

          Melissam,I want to advise you,and your friend,strongly,to NOT focus on the worst cases of being floxed!!! Because everybody is different,and (the fluoride in) FQ’s attacks the body,and mind,in so many different ways,it’s impossible to give you a time-line of healing from being floxed,but most of us get better,although not cured for 100%,over time. In fact,10 month is not so long,compared to the time most of us needed to heal to an acceptable level; I’m “in” since 2 years,now and some things are better then they were right after Cipro poisoning (my heart and my tendons),other things seem to need more time.

          The foggy mind is a tricky one; I got this after a Amoxiccilin/Metronidazo course in 2004,and recovered,slowly,from it in the years after.Sometimes feeling quite clear and focussed,sometimes feeling foggy again,and then,in 2006,Cipro brought me back to were I was after that first AB course,and even worse.

          Now,after 2 years,my heart problems (Cipro,day one) have almost gone,way less tendon problems,but “travelling” pains” (nerves?) and double vission,and a foggy mind still play their game in my life.I’ve tried a lot of things (magnesium probably being the most important supplement to start with),and at the moment I’m trying to improve both my eyes and my mental focus with a Magnetic Pulser and the Bio Tuner,both from Sota,and so far,it seems to work.(just received a mail:my water ozonator is on it’s way;ozonated water gives a body-and mind boost,and my old ozonater is defect)

          I noticed that keeping the blood sugar level as steady as possible is very important for a focussed mind;the brain is very sensitive for even a little bit too high or too low level.Coffee: it took me a while to get used to my daily dose of coffee again (one double espresso),but now it doesn’t give any problem,even (sometimes) seems to help “wake me up”.These experiences may be different to those of other people;FQ-poisoning has many faces,and people differ.

          It”s very important to experiment with different kinds of food and drink; try to find the foods and drinks that effect your body,and your mind,in a negative way by eliminating them,one by one,for at least one or two weeks.Other foods and drinks may work positive;those are “keepers”.

          I feel so sorry for your friend;as a young mother you want te be WITH your child/children,not,to see them grow up “through a fog,or curtain”.But in the meantime those childern give you a reason to fight,and to keep searching for a cure,although the chance of a 100% recovery might be small.There are a lot of FQ-victims who have to fight through all this misery on their own,not having anyone to turn to in their weaker moments.That’s why I am so very gratefull to Lisa for offering us the opportunity to communicate, and share our information AND our feelings on her website!

        • Madge Hirsch December 28, 2018 at 4:30 pm

          I agree with Andrea on this one. I believe I was floxed for the second time in 1999. I did not have internet then and only found out about floxing in 2015! But from my symptoms I am pretty sure I was floxed . I did get better especially when my hypothyroidism was discovered and treated but I think I had a relapse in 2011 as a result of a flu jab! It did not last more than a few months though. For my latest floxings in 2014 and 2015 I am not that hopeful for a recovery. I am much older and my muscles and tendons seem much more fragile. This makes exercising almost impossible and I am sure that that was a factor in previous recoveries. Because I knew nothing about what was happening to my body and my tendonitis was not too bad I did not worry about ruptures and just kept on dancing! Ditto for the coffee. I can no longer tolerate coffee though I do eat dark chocolate still. There are just so many unknowns about FQ poisoning. But you should not ruin your life worrying about a relapse that might not happen when you could enjoy feeling recovered.

        • melissam December 29, 2018 at 1:29 pm

          Wow Madge! So many floxings :(. Thanks for your advice. I think we all worry about refloxing so your note/reminder to live life when doing well is a good one. Thank you.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 27, 2018 at 7:07 am Reply

      Sorry;I got floxed in september 2016,not 2006.

      • melissam December 27, 2018 at 1:57 pm Reply

        Thank you for taking the time to reply Henk! There is helpful info in there. Thank you.

    • Bob December 27, 2018 at 12:19 pm Reply

      The last 2 years has been like that for me but off and on. No one can tell how long it takes to get better based on someone else’s experience. The bottom line is she could get better tomorrow. Does she have a good doctor?

      • melissam December 27, 2018 at 1:24 pm Reply

        Good to know…on and off probably means it will eventually cycle out of your system. I’ll pass that on. Not sure about her doc but will ask.

  10. Andrea December 26, 2018 at 7:03 pm Reply

    L, now that you have mentioned interstitial cystitis, I’ve read about a doctor here in Italy that use ozone directly into the bladder/pelvic area (with a syringe or a catheter) for treating this condition. He aslo use carbon dioxide. What do you think about that?

    • L December 26, 2018 at 7:14 pm Reply

      I don’t know about injecting into a particular area. I can tell you that the ND that literally saved my life, used ozone therapy with ALL his floxies and all his Lyme patients. (THe only reason he didn’t use it with me is that I was getting H2O2 IV s so I could wean off asthma meds, and the two don’t “play well.” But had I NOT gotten the H2o2 iVS, for sure I would have been on ozone. I hadn’t heard of injecting directly into the pelvis, but I just did a search and found a place in Pasadena, CA that does that. I guess it all comes down to how much faith you have in the provider. (Like when I was going to get IV H2O2 from my ND. I was told by a well respected doctor, “don’t do that! It’s dangerous!” But I trusted the ND, and it ended up helping me so much.

      • Andrea December 26, 2018 at 7:36 pm Reply

        Ok. I’ll see what to do. As always, Thanks.

        • L December 26, 2018 at 7:38 pm

          good luck!

  11. Joanne. December 27, 2018 at 12:16 pm Reply

    Hi Melissa,
    I had the soupy drunk feeling brain, and it was the worst part of my floxing. What helped me was WobenzymeN, and it start helping me really quick. I think at about 3 days my brain started to get some clear spots, then shortly after that my brain was mostly clear all day unless a drank Pepsi or coke or ate chocolate, then I could feel some soupiness in my head.
    Also, i can’t take anything that kills bacteria not even natural stuff cuz always causes my brain to get worse. So I would tell her she might want to eliminate any supplement that is an antibacterial cuz if shes taking natural antibacterials they might be keeping her head soupy.
    So please have your friend try WobenzymeN and stay away from anything that kills bacteria, chocolates and dark sodas.
    These are the things that help me with my brain issues.

    • melissam December 27, 2018 at 2:03 pm Reply

      Thank you Joanne! Great insight.

  12. Joanne. December 27, 2018 at 12:22 pm Reply

    Henk Noordhuizen,
    I just wanted to tell you that ozone water really knocked me back to square one!!! So please reconsider if you were planning on drinking it. It also made my tendons and overall body pains way worse then when i was in the worst of my floxing!

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 27, 2018 at 12:54 pm Reply

      Joanne,I’ve used ozonated water before,untill my Mediverse Ozonator stopped working,last summer.Never had problems drinking ozonated water,and it always gave me a bit of extra energy when I needed it.I must say I didn’t use it on a daily base,and always one,max 2 glasses at a time.Thank you for warning me,anyway.

      I read your advise to Melissa,en I,myself,don’t have any problem with chocolat (one,or two pieces every day,after my warm meal,and a double espresso).I don’t drink soda’s;those are unhealthy,even for healthy people.

      I don’t understand your advise to avoid anything killing bacteria,even natural anti-bacterial stuff.Quite a few people,here,have used different kinds of anti-bacterials like oregano oil,(ionic) colloidal silverwater,etc. without having problems;sometimes the situation leaves no choice,and,like I wrote above:most of us don’t have problems using the naturals.Sorry to hear you don’t tolerate those;what do you do when having an infection?

      • L December 27, 2018 at 1:05 pm Reply

        Yes, I rely on oil of oregano and now I am nebulizing colloidal silver for some lung issues. I also take probiotics every day. I just don’t do them all at the same time. I too was a little confused by that warning.

  13. hopeless December 27, 2018 at 3:05 pm Reply

    Thanks L. What would you say helped you the most of everything you tried? The stem cells? What about the IV’s? Which ones did you do and did they help much? Also curious if you dont mind me asking but how much did you have to pay for stem cells? Thanks

    • L December 27, 2018 at 3:49 pm Reply

      It’s very difficult to say what helped most, since I was doing different things at once. I think BOTH the IVs and stems helped significantly. the IVs I did were high dose C, Myers, phosphatidylcholine (LOTS—about 40) and H2O2. (I was given the latter to get me off steroidal asthma meds. Had I not been on H2O2 I would have received ozone as well, but there was too much overlap.) I also got a push of glutathione with all except the H2O2.

      I just mentioned in another post that the stems I got, IVs of my own blood that had been sent to a lab then sent back to get in IV, had varied costs depending on the provider. They get a base from the lab that they have to pay, and then they can charge whatever they want on top of it. My ND charged $4,000 each but gave me a deal of 3 for $1200. Another doctor I know charges $10,000 for one. Did I need three? Who knows. I would have gotten more if I could have afforded it.

  14. Joanne. December 27, 2018 at 3:22 pm Reply

    Yea, I should of been more clear on using natural antibacterials. What I was trying to say is, I can’t use them on a daily basis as part of a healing plan, but if i get an infection, uti etc. I only use natural antibacterials.
    It took me so long to figure out what would flare me up, so i like to tell others just in case the same thing is happening with them.

    • L December 27, 2018 at 3:51 pm Reply

      Plus you wouldn’t want to. EG oil of oregano you don’t want to use for more than 7-10 days at a time. Colloidal silver on the other hand, does not seem to have that kind of limit

      • Madge Hirsch December 28, 2018 at 4:40 pm Reply

        I used oil of oregano for about a fortnight for a UTI but I reckon it messed up my microbiome as I got acid reflux which I always get with antibiotics and colonoscopy preps and which I normally never suffer from.

        • Attsy December 29, 2018 at 4:47 am

          Hi Madge, did you use oil or capsules? For how long did you take it? thanks

  15. L December 27, 2018 at 5:22 pm Reply

    Not sure I mentioned this before but I (and others who posted) have one of the genetic MTHF mutation that prevents us from converting folic acid into the usable folate. (We need to take 5Mthf instead.) Why is this important, especially for floxies? First, the folic acid you can’t use doesn’t go away. It is stored in your body and and can negatively impact several systems. Second, folate is important to help make and repair DNA and help detoxify. It has a role in the nervous system and may have a role in brain fog, insomnia, even high blood pressure, anxiety, thyroid issues. IF you have not been tested, I woud highly recommend it. (23 and ME, Spectra cell, Pathway Genomics. My doctor ordered (and insurance paid for it) through True Health Diagnostics, which tests for about three pages worth of stuff.) In addition to taking the 5-MTHF form of folate, you would also want to avoid folic acid which is added to so many things, especially in the US, so check ingredents.

  16. Andrea December 28, 2018 at 5:12 am Reply

    Henk, today I tried for the first time mag l threonate. It’s been 30/40 minutes. It gave me an headache almost immediately (10/15). Just a light one. Bit still noticiable. Plus, I don’t know if it’s just a coincidence, but after about the same time, I’ve experienced some loose stools. But this could be due to the fact that I stopped with the probiotics who were making me so bloated. Anyway I’ve read that headaches are a common side effect of MLT. It usually goes away within a week. If the side effects aren’t going to get worse, I’m going to continue with It. And, of course, I’ll keep you updated.

    • Andrea December 28, 2018 at 5:14 am Reply

      I meant 10/15 minutes

      • Henk Noordhuizen December 28, 2018 at 8:24 am Reply

        Hi Andrea,I can’t remember having had any other discomfort from my first (and,untill now,last one) of Mag.L.Threonate than the sleep/anxious problems in the night,following that dose (taken just after noon;my warm meal). I took it,together with my daily dose of Mag.Bisglyc.,and took just that one dose,instead the 3 caps,advised,because I took the Mag,Bisgl. as well.Maybe,next try,I’ll only take the MLT. as my daily mag. supplement.Thanks for your first “report”,and plese,keep me informed.

        Just received my Sota Ozonator.Build like a tank (almost 50% smaller than the one from Mediverse,but approx. 1 1/2 times as heavy.Had just drunk a cup of hybiscus tea,so,as soon as that’s left my stomach I’ll do my first test with the new ozonator.My experience with the former one were quite good;after a few first times of use I’d learned not to drink ozonated water,shortly before sleeptime because it gives too much energy to be able to fall asleep.

        I’ll keep you,and the other floxies,updated about my experiences with this ozonater,and the ozonated water it produces.

  17. Andrea December 28, 2018 at 10:10 am Reply

    So far my experience with mag L threonate, hasn’t been that good. Besides the headach, wich lasted for about an hour or so, I felt very weak afterwards, almost like a sugar drop. Also a little brain fog. I took 2 capsules on an empty stomach. You should take 3x day. I’m going to take the third this evening before dinner. Let’s see what happens. I don’t know, maybe it’s just a coincidence but, who knows…

    PS , L, if I remember correctly you wrote that you’re using magnesium L threonate from life extension. I’m using the same stuff, and when I opned the bottle, I noticed there’s a white powder. I hope it’s just some magnesium that could have lostt during the boxing process. Otherwise it’s not a good sign. I’ve order it from the official website, Life Extension Europe.com, not form Azaon or ebay, but I really don’t konw what to think.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 28, 2018 at 10:25 am Reply

      Andrea,mine come from Healthy Vitamines,in packages that fit a mailbox (cheaper in shippingcosts,and you don’t need to be home at delivering time.Although not in the package info,I think that the best way to take the caps is,like with other mag.supps,after a meal.Aren’t there any directions for how to use them on the package/bottle of yours? You might consider starting with one caps a day,and slowly going to the three caps a day,as adviced.

      The white powder might be from a capsule that opened during production or when they were put in the bottle.No broken capsule in your bottle,perhaps?

      • Andrea December 28, 2018 at 10:50 am Reply

        I didn’t notice any broken capsule

    • L December 28, 2018 at 10:31 am Reply

      Never had that. Yes, I order Life Extension Neuro-Mag Magnesium L-Threonate. I generally get it from Vitacost. This is the one my doctor recommended I use, with the instructions to take 3 caps once a day. What I do is take 2 with dinner and then one right before bed, since mag is a muscle relaxer and helps to sleep.

  18. L December 28, 2018 at 10:18 am Reply

    While this article fails to mention flqs as a cause of tendonitis and tendon rupture, it has some good information in it…suggestionsyou might want to try. https://articles.mercola.com/tendonitis.aspx

  19. Joan B December 29, 2018 at 8:06 am Reply

    Has anyone heard/tried the Bowersox Protocol. a 4-month homeopathic regimen of supplements from Europe (Belgium)? Fibromyalgia treatment but could apply to fluoroquinolone toxicity??

  20. Lukasz December 29, 2018 at 11:54 am Reply


    My sister-in-law’s condition has taken a turn for the worse and we’re concerned for her life. Her limbs are extremely swelled up and her face is now starting to swell up once again. Her lips in particular are in bad shape. She has been taken to 3 different hospitals in Toronto and surrounding area and all 3 hospitals have sent her home after administrating steroids, EpiPen, Benadryl or all of the above. Nothing has worked to bring down the severe ADR and we’re now extremely worried as this has been going on since Christmas.

    They are now on their way here and will be making another trip to a local hospital, 4th in as many days. If I could please ask for your prayers during this difficult time. My sister-in-law helped me a lot during my darkest hours and days by opening her house to me when I was experiencing psychosis and countless other symptoms from Clarithromycin and Ciprofloxacin. I am forever indebted to her and my brother for their support.

    If anyone has any advice/suggestions at this point in time I would be glad to hear them.

    • L December 29, 2018 at 12:19 pm Reply

      excuse me but OMF*cking G!!! Steroids are the absolute worst thing they could be doing!!! I am 100% convinced that I was as devastated as I was (by FOUR pills of cipro) because I was given prednisone at the same time. PLEASE do your best to find an integrative MD! I truly believe the steroids are only worsening her condition.

      • Lukasz December 29, 2018 at 7:20 pm Reply

        I have warned her and my family against the use of steroids since the beginning of this ordeal. Apparently, my warnings have been falling on deaf ears. She was put on Prednisone by one of the hospitals while also combating this with multiple EpiPen and Benadryl doses and her situation hasn’t improved so clearly the steroids are not helping matters. I just came back from the latest hospital and the word Prednisone and steroids was being tossed around by the two physicians who were assessing her. Couldn’t stick around to find out what happened since I had to get my mom back home to look after my young niece and nephew but the whole time I was there, there was no mention of I.V. intervention which is damn strange to me because that’s what saved me in 2007 when Amoxicillin poisoned me. Why have they stopped using this method? Is it because it’s cheap AND it works?!? Do they stand to make much more money when they push drugs onto patients?

        I have suggested two things to my sister-in-law while I was at the hospital with them. One, Quercetin to see if it works and stops the ADR. I talked to a nutritionist at a local health food store and she said it’s definitely worth a try. Two, I suggested that we seek out the advice of the integrative MD that has been treating me over the past 3 months. He’s one of the top rated integrative doctors in Canada so he knows a thing or two about toxicity. The thing is, she’s now in the hands of conventional medicine and who knows what other drugs they are going to pump her with. Like you L, I really think we need to start going in a different direction with this. Oh and we also found out that the catalyst for this entire ordeal was 2 pills of Advil. She remembered at the hospital that she took the 2 pills on Christmas Eve and it wasn’t long before the hives and swelling began. So there you have it, as many of us here have theorized, NSAIDs are the match and antibiotics are the gasoline.

        • L December 29, 2018 at 11:27 pm

          Advil. OMG. They know NOTHING about flqs. NSAIDS and steroids are at the top of the “to be avoided” list. How on earth do they not know this? The EpiPen and Benadryl I don’t think are an issue, but apparently they aren’t helping anyway. Glad you mentioned the quercitin although at this point I think she probably needs “bigger guns” like the hyperbaric or ozone. It’s like none of these so called doctors read any warnings? What’s the point? This must be very frustrating for you, after what you have been through to see this happen to someone you care about. I am so sorry for that.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 4:27 am

          Hi Lukasz,I’m so sorry to read about what happened with your sister-in-law. Mistake upon mistake,and they’d like to call this “science based medicine? For a “suspected sinusitis” ????
          I,for myself,think that the safest way to act is to put her in a not to warm bath(40-45 degrees C),with a big bag of BIO camomilla,to comfort her skin.Those hives might be due to the body,trying to excrete the poison through her skin;the bath might help here.washing the poison (fluoride) off the skin,and the camomilla soothes the skin reaction.

          To help the body to eleminate the poison and to restore the skin I think that,first of all,she needs a high quality magnesium supplement.And Zinc (very important for the skin!),and,like others already advised,high quality vitamine D,and I think she needs more vit D than the advised dose (which is some 10 times lower than what they told us for decennia;calculation mistake,made by the “scientist” on who’s research that advise is based).

          My heart and my thoughts are with your sister in law,and with you and your family.Needles to tell that I feel extremely sad because of your little niece;first she was poisoned herself and now has a peanut allergy; now has to pay attention on what she eats,maybe for the rest of her life.And only a few days later those same Dr.’s poison her mom! And she’s so young;it will be hard for her,to understand what’s going on.The only good thing,for her,to come out is,that she will be very suspisious about every medicine a Dr. wants her to take,in the future.Poor girl!!!

          I hope that,things will turn for the good,for your sister in law,and your niece and the rest of the family;And I wish you all much strength in a time that should have been one of joy,but turned out to be one of worries,and sorrow.

        • Lukasz December 30, 2018 at 7:18 pm


          Thanks for your concern. It’s been a tough stretch, to say the least. I’m still dealing with my own severe insomnia / abrupt wake-up issues, over 4 years of this crap, and so having this additional stress isn’t helping matters. I need to figure out where the heck my biological clock went. It’s all messed up. On top of all this, I have a bad case of the flu which I picked up from my brother or the hospital, not sure which one, and it’s making my life hell. I really need to leave this country once and for all. If I don’t, I fear I’ll be dead soon.


          Thanks for your advice as always. I’ll pass on as much as I can. I think at this point she and my brother just want to let the ADR run its’ course. It seems to be improving of late so let’s see.

          Yes, I view conventional doctors as demons for all the harm they’ve inflicted on my family. I truly believe that they’ve sold their soul to the devil. I wish things could be different for all us.

    • L December 29, 2018 at 12:31 pm Reply

      I just called Integrative Health Institute in Toronto, so see if any of the doctors there are familiar with FLQ toxicity. Unfortunately, the receptionist told me that everyone else is out until Wednesday.

    • L December 29, 2018 at 12:35 pm Reply

      Also found another integrative dr with pretty good reviews, but alas, office closed there as well. https://www.ratemds.com/doctor-ratings/76951/Dr-John-Gannage-Markham-ON.html

    • Bob December 29, 2018 at 1:57 pm Reply

      Ozone and UBI (ultraviolet blood irradiation) can do amazing things. Some doctors do them both at the same time. I don’t believe it would hurt her. If they keep taking her in for conventional treatment I fear the worst. Please no more steroids.

      • L December 29, 2018 at 2:06 pm Reply

        yes, I thought perhaps ozone. Another thing to look into is hyperbaric.

        • Bob December 29, 2018 at 2:16 pm

          My doctor told me 1 ozone treatment or hydrogen peroxide IV would equal many hyperbaric treatments and he had a hyperbaric chamber. Sometimes he would go in it during his lunch break. Years ago before I was floxed my wife was very sick and could hardly breath. MD’s were doing nothing to help her. I took her to a doctor in GA that had a ultraviolet needle. Put the needle in your arm and you would get all your blood treated in 20 min. She did those every other day for 2 weeks along with infrared sauna. She believes that saved her life.

      • Lukasz December 29, 2018 at 8:46 pm Reply


        Thanks for your suggestions. I’m familiar with ozone but not UBI. I’ll pass these options on to my sister-in-law. How is your wife doing now? And yourself? Have you recovered from your floxing?

        I’m trying to convey the message but for some reason my suggestion to avoid steroids is not getting through. Well, whatever my sister-in-law chooses to do it’s her body. I learned the hard way and will continue to avoid steroids including NSAIDs for the rest of my life.

        • Bob December 30, 2018 at 2:12 pm

          I had a major relapse 2 years ago from septocaine that I have not yet recovered from. My wife still has some issues with what we though was lyme but may be a virus. UBI can have some amazing benefits if it is a good machine. Ozone and UBI at the same time is the gold standard in my book. If my memory is correct Dr. Rowen has a you tube video on this. I am changing my thinking on some of these issues as I am reading books by Anthony Williams; “The Medical Medium” and I am now reading his book on the liver. He also has one on healing the thyroid. I am going on a strict diet to detox my liver after the new year. As has been discussed on this site before liver issues may be the reason Cipro has hit all of us and not other people. I know my liver was compromised by paint and epoxy chemicals as well as other petro chemicals when I was floxed. I had done liver flushes but according to Anthony Williams those don’t work. I highly recommend his book on the liver. He has diet and supplement recommendations for inflammation which is just what your sister in law needs although that would take some time. Who is calling the shots, your sister in law or brother?

        • Lukasz December 30, 2018 at 7:02 pm

          Sorry to hear about the prolonged recovery. I wish this whole process was easier to get a grip on for all of us. I’m sure you and your wife are urging each other on and that’s important.

          Yeah, I’m sure the liver and thyroid are heavily impacted. I know for a fact mine were and probably still are. I’m still working on them both, as you probably are as well.

          I’m going on a similar diet to reset my body and give it a break. Hopefully it will good for us both. It’s amazing how much research one has to do for himself to try to resolve this big mess.

          Thanks for the book recommendation. I suppose both my brother and sister-in-law are calling the shots. She’s quite messed up but is starting to realize that ER doctors are not there to help.

          Her plan for now is to let the ADR resolve itself which thankfully seems to be happening. Let’s see what happens.

          All the best to you and your wife.

    • Attsy December 29, 2018 at 2:47 pm Reply

      Hi Lukasz, I can’t help much but I am praying for your sister-in-law a lot! Hope she will heal soon.

      • Lukasz December 29, 2018 at 8:54 pm Reply

        Thanks Attsy. Prayers are as good as any suggestion or advice.

      • Madge Hirsch December 31, 2018 at 10:19 am Reply

        I took capsules of oregano oil for nearly a fortnight. I do think this has some negative effect on the microbiome though.

  21. Andrea December 30, 2018 at 7:05 am Reply

    This is terrible Lukasz. There isn’t much I can do or suggest right now. Sorry, but the condition of your sister in law seems to be very tragic, and I really don’t know what to say.
    The only thing I can suggest is to keep in mind WHY she is in this situation right now. Because of her suspected sinusitis??? Of course not. She’s in this situation becasue of the wrong and unnecessary treatment she received from the doctors. Like most of us. There’s plenty of information out there on how dangerous these drugs are. How they shouldn’t be prescribed for “suspected” infections and how they shouldn’t be used with other drugs like NSAIDs or steroids. This is just so wrong.
    Tell them (your sister in law and family) to keep the prescription and the box and start thinking about a lawsuit.
    Sorry, I understand I should be minding by own business, expecially in a situation like this, but this is unacceptable. Please keep us updated. Best wishes.

    • L December 30, 2018 at 11:44 am Reply

      Agreed! And pictures too.

    • Lukasz December 30, 2018 at 7:32 pm Reply

      It’s criminal, to be sure. I just can’t believe what’s been happening in this world over the last while. Who would have thought that doctors of all people would be committing medical genocide? There was a time in history when doctors were highly respected individuals in society. Now, they’re just petty drug peddlers who work for the mafia aka pharmaceutical industry. Shameful stuff.

      Unfortunately, one of the peddlers who was assessing her during her first hospital visit took her container away which had the remaining pills in it. I explained to her that this was a bad move. I really don’t know if she and my brother will retrieve the container that was taken away from her but I know she has plenty of photos of her ADR. Finding a lawyer though, will be Mission Impossible.

      • Henk Noordhuizen December 31, 2018 at 2:38 am Reply

        Was this container with the pills payed for by your brother and your sister in law,or by their insurance? Then it’s theirs,and they had no right to take it.

        • Lukasz December 31, 2018 at 10:32 am

          No idea whether they paid for it out of pocket or with insurance.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 31, 2018 at 11:21 am

          It doesn’t matter is they payed it out of their pocked,or their assurance company payed it;they are the legal owners.And now it’s (stolen) evidence,I guess.

        • L December 31, 2018 at 11:29 am

          Correct. And they should note the date, who took it, and that they requested it back and were denied.

  22. Andrea December 30, 2018 at 7:11 am Reply

    Bob, I suffer from chronic pelvic pain. I was considering ozone injection or instillation for this problem. I’ve found a doctor here in Italy that use this kind of treatment. But I a bit concerned about the side effects. If not done correctly ozone could be very toxic. The last thing I want is to get sick again while finding a way to get better. Can you tell more about your experience with it? Thanks.

    • Bob December 30, 2018 at 2:19 pm Reply

      I had prolozone (ozone and procaine) injected into my knee and ankles about 5 times. I can’t say I noticed any difference. I was actually referring to major autohemotherapy where the blood is treated which I have not tried yet. I would like to find someone to do the ozone and UBI at the same time.

  23. Don M December 30, 2018 at 10:25 am Reply

    Excellent discussion of “gas lighting” doctors, the entire pharmaceutical industry, and let us not forget the FDA.

  24. Don M December 30, 2018 at 11:05 am Reply

    It would be a shame to not copy and paste this analysis of far to many of the doctors in the medical world. It is an amusingly accurate assessment. Read it and have a laugh. We must give credit to Erik Johnson. A blogger from another web site.


    The emergence of Medically Unexplained Illnesses has revealed an epidemic of behavioral problems and personality disorders in doctors.

    Patients expressing unfamiliar complaints to their physicians often induce the “It’s All In Your Head” (AIYH) or the “That’s Impossible” response in doctors suffering from these behavioral problems and personality disorders.

    Physicians fixated upon the metaphysical belief system of “If we don’t know about it, then it doesn’t exist” are suffering from a mental defect or psychological condition known as “Doctors with Unexplained Medical Beliefs”: D.U.M.B.

    DUMB doctors are comprised of subgroups characterized by opportunists who are feigning to be DUMB for monetary gain: “Medicalingering” or of those doctors who are not in possession of sufficient information to render an intelligent diagnosis: “Factlessitious Disorder”.

    Physicians who are suffering from DUMB disorder place an inordinate emphasis on theories of psychological causality for virtually any unfamiliar complaints that are presented, and manifest a distinctive lack of observational skills when confronted with obvious abnormalities. Doctors who exhibit obsessive preoccupation with psychosocial etiologies should be regarded with extreme caution: “Psychosomatization Fixation Disorder” or “Psychologizing” is a distinctive characteristic of mental illness, and should be considered a warning sign that the individual is not rational and may in fact be dangerously DUMB.

    DUMB disorder may be concomitant but should not be confused with “Signs of Thoroughly Unmistakable Physician Intelligence Deficiency” : “S.T.U.P.I.D.”,
    as a STUPID physician is uniformly incompetent, while a DUMB doctor is only mentally paralyzed into “psychologizing” by unfamiliar symptoms and complaints.

    An immediate investigation is warranted to assess the prevalence of DUMB and STUPID doctors, and to determine the detrimental impact that physicians suffering from these mental defects are having on their patients and the health care system.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 11:53 am Reply

      What’s even more dangerous than an idiot with a gun? An idiot with pills,seringes and a white coat Do you know,why? When you see an idiot with a gun,you’ll run for your life because you know he’s gonna try to kill you.

      • Lukasz December 30, 2018 at 1:06 pm Reply

        But, the white coat gives off the impression they know what they’re talking about. It gives them authority and status. How dare you question the white coat, Henk? LOL

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 1:10 pm

          Oh dear! Might I be wrong? Just kidding,of course!

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 30, 2018 at 1:13 pm

          Sorry,Lukasz,forgot to ask.How is your sister in law? Any change? Is she still in the hospital? Doing better?

        • Lukasz December 30, 2018 at 5:29 pm

          She’s out of the hospital. Was released the same day just like previous visits. They want her to continue with Prednisone but she’s not taking the bait this time. Ironically enough, she’s doing much better since stopping the steroid and Benadryl. Far less swelling and hives. She’s still not walking well and feels very tired all the time but has improved. Not sure what the extent of the damage is but I’m sure her liver is working overtime to eliminate all the drugs. Only time will tell.

        • L December 30, 2018 at 5:37 pm

          So glad she stopped the prednisone! Thanks for the update.

        • Henk Noordhuizen December 31, 2018 at 2:24 am

          Hi Lukasz,I’m very glad to hear she’s recovering.You might consider the bath,and the supplements I wrote about;safe and,probably helpfull.

        • Bob January 1, 2019 at 1:08 pm

          Yes, and any aid to her liver would be beneficial: just a few from “Liver Rescue” by Anthony Williams: 5-MTHF, ALA, fresh aloe vera, ashwagandha, barley grass juice powder, cat’s claw, black walnut, cardamom, chaga mushroom, curcumin, glutathione and others. Foods such as papayas, pears, pineapple, pomegranate, potatoes, sweet potatoes and the most beneficial wild blueberries.

        • L January 1, 2019 at 1:19 pm

          good stuff. I would add chlorella to the list. (of course not all at once)

        • Bob January 1, 2019 at 1:25 pm

          I was taking chlorella. Anthony Wiliams believes spirulina is much better.

        • L January 1, 2019 at 3:06 pm

          Never used spirulina, but lots of great info online re the chlorella

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 1, 2019 at 2:09 pm

          Bob,”Just a few”? “5-MTHF, ALA, fresh aloe vera, ashwagandha, barley grass juice powder, cat’s claw, black walnut, cardamom, chaga mushroom, curcumin, glutathione and others. Foods such as papayas, pears, pineapple, pomegranate, potatoes, sweet potatoes and the most beneficial wild blueberries”??? WOW!!!

          Attention:Most pineapples come from South America and are very toxic:


          My advise would be: just the “few” supplements I advised before:Magnesium,Zinc and vit.D.,because those are very important for detoxing her body and restoring her skin.And simple,organic Bio-food;soups with lots of Bio vegetables,and a small amount of Bio fruits.

          She’s just recovering from the poisoning and it’s important not to overload her body and her liver,with all different kinds of supps which may be healthy for most people,but,my opinion,nót for somebody in her condition.The other,”few”.things mentioned might be usefull,once she’s recovered a bit.

        • Bob January 1, 2019 at 2:44 pm

          I can give you more it you want.

        • Bob January 1, 2019 at 2:47 pm

          All those supplements would help detoxify her liver. She could take as many as she wants. Of course magnesium would help. Should I run any comments by you first?

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 1, 2019 at 3:42 pm


        • L January 1, 2019 at 3:07 pm

          I saw that same article. I have a friend that lives in costa rica. Sad. More poisonous greed

        • Lukasz December 30, 2018 at 7:37 pm

          You’re welcome.

    • Bob December 30, 2018 at 2:23 pm Reply

      I love it.

  25. Antony December 30, 2018 at 5:05 pm Reply

    Thoughts on vaccinations after floxing? I have been worried about meningitis since my friend got it a few years ago and nearly died, and a lot of people who get it lose their limbs, and I found out there is a vaccination for certain types of meningitis, but I’m worried about any sort of vaccination since I was floxed. Just not sure what to do and would like to hear others thoughts.

    • L December 30, 2018 at 5:30 pm Reply

      there are different types of meningitis. are you referring to viral? Even the CDC says most get better from it . https://www.cdc.gov/meningitis/viral.html

      For me, no more vaccines of any kind ever. Too many toxic ingredients in them. What makes you think you are at risk for meningitis to begin with?

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 31, 2018 at 2:22 am Reply

      Many,or even most vaccins contain fluoride “to make them work better” (????) For a floxie this means BIG TROUBLE !

  26. L December 30, 2018 at 8:26 pm Reply

    well this is interesting, Lisa. I can’t find the thread on gut / elimination issues, but I was searching for an alternative to ketotifen oral (prescribed for my possible mast cell activation syndrome). I don’t like the idea of any pharmaceuticals, but this was the only thing the mast cell specialist had to offer. The problem is, it is no longer sold in the US. (I suspect it has to do with big pharma’s greed. A) not enough money for them and B) it is useful for asthma, but they would rather you take their expensive steroid inhalers.) Anyhow, to get it here, you have to buy it at a compounding pharmacy, and it isn’t cheap. IT is costing me around $60 a month. That’s on top of the hundreds I spend on other supplements. But this is what I found that was interesting and I thought of you. http://www.collegepharmacy.com/images/download/Woeller_Ketotifen_Protocol.pdf

  27. Lukasz December 31, 2018 at 10:47 am Reply

    Nothing like closing out the year by having the scum at the social services office stop your monthly financial support. Not only am I completely broke, in debt and unable to pay rent, now I have no money for food. I hope these people find themselves in my shoes one day. Happy 2019.

    • L December 31, 2018 at 11:27 am Reply

      Oh Lukasz, I am so sorry. My year is ending with yet another shitty event as well. None of us deserve any of this. I hope that perhaps this is something you can try to appeal. I so hope this new year is a better one for all of us.

    • Henk Noordhuizen December 31, 2018 at 11:28 am Reply

      I’d wish I could help you,Lukasz,but I’m on the social services payroll myself,and it isn’t easy to live from the bit of money they give you.Had to save money to buy the Ozonater and I hope there won’t be any unacpected costs in the comming month’s.I hope you’ll find help,or another solution.And,of course,I wish you,your family and all the people,here,at floxiehope a Happy Newyear.

    • Bob January 1, 2019 at 1:18 pm Reply

      Things will turn around for you I pray. And by pray I mean I will send you positive thoughts.

  28. Andrea January 1, 2019 at 12:00 pm Reply

    Happy new year everyone.
    I’ve took some probiotics a couple of weeks ago and after a few days they gave me a lot of bloating. Even if I stopped, it’s been a few days, the bloating still bothers me. I’m so disappointed.
    I started taking them not because I had GI problems, actually I’ve never experienced GI problems since being floxed, but more for prevention, and now I’m experiencing this??
    Any suggestion on what to do?

    • L January 1, 2019 at 12:25 pm Reply

      I actually have read that is a good thing. It can happen as the bad stuff dies off, and should be temporary once they are gone. Apparently they don’t leave without a fight! Another thought is —not sure how you do with dairy, but depending on the strain, it may have that same effect.

      • Andrea January 1, 2019 at 12:55 pm Reply

        Thanks L.
        Yeah, I’ve read that too, but I already have a lot pain in that, area becasue of my bladder issues, and now this bloating is very frustrating, so I stopped, but the bloating continues.
        I don’t do very well with dairy, but not in the digestive department. It causes me a lot of problems, (oily skin, pimples, lot of mucus) but not much digestive issues. Anyway I give up dairy a couple of weeks ago, and I felt much better. Expecially the joint pain is improving (maybe just a coincidence).

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 1, 2019 at 12:27 pm Reply

      The bloating isn’t the result of (just) the probioticum,but of both probioticum and food.Even what you drink might have an effect.Try to find out what is the main cause and eleminate it from your intake,Andrea.And a Happy New Year to you,too :-))

      • Andrea January 1, 2019 at 12:57 pm Reply

        Hi Henk. I mostly drink water, except for a cup of almond milk with some ginger and turmeric powder in it. I give up dairy a couple of weeks ago, and I was doing quite good, but after I started the probiotics this damn bloating is bothering me a lot

      • Andrea January 1, 2019 at 5:18 pm Reply

        Oh, I forgot, I’m still taking the Magnesium L Threonate. It’s not bothering me anymore. I’m taking it before a meal in the morning and in the evening. Not sure if it’s doing any good though.

    • Bob January 1, 2019 at 1:22 pm Reply

      Drink fresh celery juice every morning on an empty stomach for a week.

      • Andrea January 1, 2019 at 1:44 pm Reply

        thanks bob

    • Madge Hirsch January 1, 2019 at 5:20 pm Reply

      There has been some recent Israeli research ( can’t remember where I read it ) about negative effects of probiotics following cipro administration. I have had poblems with probiotics immediately after both antibiotics and colonoscopy ( the prep damages the microbiome). I wuld wait a bit for it to settledown – it might take a few weeks.

      • Andrea January 1, 2019 at 6:26 pm Reply

        Thanks Madge. Very interesting.

      • Bob January 2, 2019 at 9:43 am Reply

        When I first got floxed I had a medical intuitive helping me with a customized protocol. She was surprised that no commercial probiotics tested as useful. Fermented vegetables did test OK. Now it is reversed. What helps you at one point may not help you later and visa versa.

  29. hopeless January 2, 2019 at 3:59 pm Reply

    how come there is no forum for FQ toxicity? seems like we should have something like that. i know there are groups but no forum. also benzo withdrawal is very similar to FQ toxicity, wonder whats going on there

    • L January 2, 2019 at 4:45 pm Reply

      Hmmm. This is a forum for FLQ toxicity. Not sure what you mean.

  30. hopeless January 2, 2019 at 5:08 pm Reply

    i mean more of a forum where there are different sections something like this http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php

    • L January 2, 2019 at 5:13 pm Reply

      Ok, well this is just a different kind of site. There is a separate section where people post their stories. There is also a section with resources. If you go to the floxie hope main page, you will see different headings you can click on at the top of the page. https://floxiehope.com/ You can also just go to different pages and do a word search.

      I also want to point out that even just monitoring the site, posting people’s stories, responding to questions and comments is very labor intensive, and Lisa, who created this site, and has been faithfully running it for a number of years now, does it all out of the goodness of her heart. (however there is a place where you can donate if you so choose 🙂 )

      • Madge Hirsch January 3, 2019 at 10:46 am Reply

        I don’t know what this poster’s complaint is. This IS a forum and a jolly good one.

        • L January 3, 2019 at 10:54 am

          yes, my thoughts exactly. And I went to the other site mentioned and found the layout very unappealing.

      • Bob January 3, 2019 at 2:55 pm Reply

        L where did you get the stem cell treatments?

        • L January 3, 2019 at 3:08 pm

          I just got them from my ND. It was my own blood, sent to a lab. Then they do whatever they do to remove the stems, send them back and then I got them in IV. My ND is no longer in practice (which sucks…literally saved my life, but financially he couldn’t make it.) However an integrative MD that I know does the same thing, using the same lab (charges more though). He is in Southern CA.

        • Bob January 3, 2019 at 3:39 pm

          Do you know the lab?

        • L January 3, 2019 at 3:54 pm

          I am trying to get that information.

  31. hopeless January 2, 2019 at 5:39 pm Reply

    If we had a forum as well, where people could talk about treatments that worked for them could that help? The storys section does that here too, but to bounce ideas off one another i think a forum could be ok

    There would be different sections for different symptoms maybe one would be ‘neurologica’ others would be ‘immune’ etc. other sections talking about ‘treatments’ and so on

    Lisa does great work and we should all be thankful for that, and this amazing site. I still think a more standard forum could be useful, where people bounce ideas more off eachother, and share all their testing and so on. I am probably to ill to do something like this, but maybe i know others that can. I also feel like there isint much activity with fq community in some aspects. even on facebook i dont see many people posting much, maybe people are to sick and or given up hope? or got better and dont want to come around anymore

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 3, 2019 at 4:01 am Reply

      Ever tried to go to Google,Duck Duck Go,etc. and type “Floxie forum” in the search window?


    • Henk Noordhuizen January 3, 2019 at 4:10 am Reply
      • L January 3, 2019 at 11:11 am Reply

        I remember searching a couple years back and found no fewer than a dozen facebook pages devoted to FLQ and no fewer than a dozen websites. Btw, I read the link for Jack Kruse. ARE you kidding me???? Sounded more like he wanted to show off his knowledge of physics, than try to help. Then he says at the end ‘buy my book.” Um—no thanks. I just fell asleep reading your response. Plus, it makes me nervous when someone says “this the reason why the damage….” and then gives one very specific reason. IN fact, I think there are multiple reasons, and even the best alternative doctors have not figured it all out.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 3, 2019 at 12:19 pm

          Well,I only know the Quintoxsupport website;found it a while ago.I don’t have a facebook account (nor do I have an account on one of the other “social” networks),and I didn’t read the Jack Kruse website.I only placed that links because I wanted to show how easy it is to find lots of info,and forums,about FQ’s by doing a quick search.

        • L January 3, 2019 at 12:27 pm

          Yes. So many it’s staggering. And yet it continues to be big pharma’s and the AMA’s best kept secret. RE Facebook, there is a main one called the Fluoroquinolone Wall of Pain. But if you do a search, it is mind boggling the number of pages devoted to it. These are just SOME: fluoroquinolone toxicity; stem cell recovery for fluoroquinolones; fluorquinolone antibiotics toxicity; FLQ toxicity; cipro is poison; cipro toxicity group……ad nauseum

        • Madge Hirsch January 5, 2019 at 10:04 am

          I could not make much sense of it either. The only thing that came over to me as a mesage was stop usuing all computers. Mercola also goes on a lot about limiting cell phones and tablets but as most of us would never have known about our floxing if wasn’t for the internet and would not be able to communicate with each other without it it is hard advice to take.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 10:32 am

          Mercola’s main worries are about the radiatin of cell phones handsfree phones,Wifi connections etc..Although wired connectios do emit EMF radiation this is way safer than the GMS- and Wifi connections.

        • L January 5, 2019 at 11:59 am

          and speaking of computers, cell phones, etc. More corporate greed taking precedence over our health. https://takebackyourpower.net/un-staff-member-5g-is-war-on-humanity/

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 12:11 pm

          Take back your power was the motto of Bob Beck,when he introduced his protocol.It also is the name of the website you mention,and there’s a very good (important) documentary with the same name (must see!)

          Politics failed miserably on us.Time to……?

        • L January 5, 2019 at 2:08 pm

          politics, greedy politicians, corrupt “protection” agencies, ignorant doctors, big pharma, fake medical journals, the list of failures goes on and on. I am not giving up the fight though. Sitting on my floor is a 8 page document I am sending out to a documentary filmmaker. I have gotten no response from the dozens of others letters I have sent to politicians, entertainers, magazines, news people…but it would only take one…..

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 3, 2019 at 4:12 am Reply

      I am totaly happy with the way we conversate about all the things you mentioned,here,on floxiehope.but if you’re less happy with this website,than loo around insted of complaining.Here another one;it’s so easy to find other groups,with a different setup:


    • Henk Noordhuizen January 3, 2019 at 4:13 am Reply

      I am totaly happy with the way we conversate about all the things you mentioned,here,on floxiehope.but if you’re less happy with this website,than loo around insted of complaining.Here another one;it’s so easy to find other groups,with a different setup:


    • S January 7, 2019 at 1:11 am Reply

      Hey, there is this https://www.reddit.com/r/floxies/ 🙂

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 7, 2019 at 3:47 am Reply

        Andhere’s another interesting blog.It’s about Metronidazole (my first antibiotic nightmare,in 2004,in a combination course with Amoxicilline),but is very interesting for Floxies as well;lots to learn,and some usefull advises:


        Metronidazole seems to have many adverse reactions in common with FQ’s.

      • L January 7, 2019 at 11:24 am Reply

        OMG. It is just ASTOUDNING the number of sites out there dedicated to the victims of these poisons. You know how a millions of women across Indian linked arms the other day? I wish we could get all the people from all the dozens of floxie sites and all the dozens of floxie facebook pages, and have them link arms across the world!

  32. DP January 3, 2019 at 12:32 pm Reply

    Has anyone tried 4Life Transfer Factor® Tri-Factor® Formula? I am keen to explore and would like to know if anyone has any experience

    • Andrea January 3, 2019 at 6:47 pm Reply

      Yes, me. I’ve tried it after someone here, can’t remember who, said it helped him/her so much. Anyway, my personal experience with it, was disappointing. Didn’t noticed anything from it. At the and of the day, it’s just a cholostrum and egg yolk supplement. In capsules. If you ask my opinion, if you want to try the mentioned ingredients, just go with the real things. And save some money. I repeatrepeat, just my opinion based on my personal experience.

  33. hopeless January 3, 2019 at 6:28 pm Reply

    the jackcruse one is for floxing?

    when i think of forum i think of something like this https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php

    maybe if we had even 100 people, with all our symptoms and test results across the board we could find things similar

    only forum i found is https://fluorchinolone-forum.de/ but i dont speak german, and that site was a link from here

    • L January 7, 2019 at 12:25 pm Reply

      There are literally dozens of forums on this already, on websites and facebook pages.

  34. A.Coleman January 4, 2019 at 1:23 pm Reply

    Hi everyone,

    Just a general question. Do your symptoms change in intensity from day to day and even during the day? I am getting quite a bit better (85% of normal) but in my last relapse one of my old symptoms (gone for over 2 years) returned. This is a weird sensation of cold/tingling in my legs and a bit in my arms. It is only on the dorsal surface of my arm and legs – BTW. At the same time I have more traditional peripheral neuropathy in my feet that is a burning / pain, but this has never completely gone away.

    For both symptoms I notice that the intensity of the symptoms changes from day to day and even during the day sometimes. The neuorpathy in my feet sometimes becomes very very minor for a week or more only to creep back in and then about every 5 to 6 months will intensify for a week or two. On days when it is in the low pain zone which is most common it will cycle even during the day being worse early in the day and getting better as the day progresses most days though it can flip. Today for example started out pretty bad but by the time I am writing this at 2:00 local time my feet are completely normal – no pain at all.

    The leg tingle is more consistent, but it too gets less as the day progresses and has periods where its intensity increases for a few days then recedes. Putting a blanket on my legs will make the symptoms nearly go away as will wearing shorts, so it is some kind of weird sensory thing, but I don’t understand how the two could both have the same action. Winter in the U.S. so shorts are not an option other than at the gym.

    I can’t find any correlation to my actions, environment, or diet causing the fulctuations. It is not a matter of varying my supplementation or anything else I can find. Also the two are independent of one another – for example right now feet are not an issue at all but legs are having a bad day. Weird!

    For anybody with suggestions my primary treatment is Vitamin D, Mg including twice weekly Epsom salt baths and B complex vitamins – good quality methylated version as I am C677T MTHFR. All my levels for these nutrients were good last time checked, though B6 was a bit high and it is time to repeat Mg. Wondering if it might be low iron – I was low in iron when first floxed but built it back up without supplementing and when last checked 18 months ago it was okay.

    Thanks for letting me vent. If not for the new/returning symptoms with this recent relapse I might have been writing a recovery story by now and it is really hard to get so close only to have the finish line moved on me again!!

    • L January 4, 2019 at 2:18 pm Reply

      They do for me. EG I get olfactory hallucinations. Really disgusting smells. They left for almost a year, came back, left, came back. And on a day when I get them they may occur just once, or they may come back on and off during the day with no discernable reason why. I also am reading more and more about so many of these things MAY be caused by flq-activated mast cell disorder.

    • Andrea January 4, 2019 at 3:43 pm Reply

      “Do your symptoms change in intensity from day to day and even during the day?”
      Yes defenitly. That’s another weird thing about these side effects. Sometimes there’re days where I’m almost pain free. No pain in the lower legs, no fatigue. No nothing. And maybe I’m eating crap all day. Then there’re days when,out of the blue, my joints hurt, I feel very weak and so on…One thing I’ve always noticed is that they always change in intensity, or even disappear several times (let’s say 2 to 4 times) during the day.

    • Anna January 4, 2019 at 7:05 pm Reply

      Listen, I am going to jump in here with an opinion. I truly believe that being “floxied” is ALL about this chemo style drug kicking up auto -immune disorders, and more so for those pre disposed. I think almost every person with adverse effects is dealing with auto immune disorders after. I went to specialist after specialist, each saying the symptoms were auto-immune, the cause being the drug. So, drug induced auto immune is very likely and very accepted in the medical community.

      • L January 5, 2019 at 12:40 am Reply

        The medical community says that because they have nothing else to offer. It certainly mimics auto immune, but the thinking is that ANYONE, given enough to meet their personal threshold, would react. We just all met ours. (I had been on cipro and Levaquin in the past, unbeknownst to me, and had no apparent reaction. Although it may have already started working its magic.” But I do think that it seems to attack where we are weakest….

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 6:27 am

          I agree;FQ’s attack every cell,every system in your body,and the weakest go down first.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 4:50 am Reply

        Anna,the term “auto-immune”,in the medical world,is used whenever they can’t explain or understand something.It’s just like,in archeaology (where I worked for 8 years,have a lifetime interest) they have the term “ritual function” for every object they don’t understand.

        They call diabetes an immune disorder,but in recent studies and experiments it’s proven that it can be cured with…..a diet with lots of vegetables,proteins,fats,and hardly any carbs.Sugars are forbidden.In orthodox medicin this is forbidden knowledge;they prefer to still call it an immune disorder (instead of admitting they were wrong),and keep on selling Metformin and other lucrative “medicines”.

        Most of our (floxies) medical problems are not understood because this kind of poison damage was,untill recently,unknown and the orthodox medical industry doesn’t want to do research on these problems and the causes because they don’t want to produce proof that they,themselves,created all this misery.Their finds would give us proof we need to sue them in court.And their lucrative poisons would be banned.

      • Andrea January 5, 2019 at 11:58 am Reply

        I don’t know Anna. It could be.
        Your opinion could explain why some people are affected so badly and why others seem to do just fine. But who really knows…

        • Anna January 7, 2019 at 11:48 am

          It is just a guess, because it ‘comes and goes’ like auto immune and has a lot of the same inflammation and aching issues.

      • A.Coleman January 7, 2019 at 9:42 am Reply

        Hey – just wanted to thank everyone who chimed in. Good to remember the crazy way FQs affect us all. The daily and hourly fluctuations in symptom expression are another reason to hate these horrible drugs.

        On Anna’s theory – I too have to disagree. If all chemo style drugs set off autoimmune disorders then regular chemo treatments would do this too. I know chemo can have some of the same nerve affects as FQs but never heard of them doing tendon damage.

        While I don’t think I am an expert on FQs method of action I do have a bachelors degree in biochemistry and a masters degree in molecular biology. Using that background I have recently been reading up on epigenetics and this seems to be a much more likely method of action for FQs in floxies. We know that FQs screw with the DNA gyrase and topoisomerase in bacteria – and I think they do the same thing in our mitochondria. For floxies FQs enter mitochondria and modify gene expression by turning off genes that we need. These genes then aren’t expressed and we don’t get the benefit necessary resulting in our various problems. Read more about epigenetics here – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

        I think that not all of our mitochondrial are affected in any area and how many are affected directly impacts expression of symptoms. Affected mitochondria are not as “fit” in an evolutionary sense as are non-affected mitochondria so for most people eventually the cells that include the less “fit” mitochondria are replaced by cells with more functional mitochondria. This is why it takes SOOOOOO LONG for floxies to heal. Even the less fit cells are reproducing and reproducing the less fit mitochondria. Eventually the more fit cells win out but this can take years.

        While this doesn’t explain fully why tendons are hit more than other cells it does explain why nerves are hit more because nerve cells typically don’t reproduce. (There is a specialized form of neuroblastoma that can grow to replace existing nerve cells, but this happens very rarely and almost not at all after the teen years.) So, in nerve cells the damage caused by FQs to our mitochondria isn’t eventually weeded out by cell regeneration. Instead it relies totally on the mitochondrial reproduction that happens inside of nerve cells. So, it most all of your nerve cells in a given area are hit by FQ then maybe none have fully functional mitochondria. If we are lucky some of the mitochondria escape the damage and maybe eventually replace the damaged mitochondria. But for some people all the nerve cells and all the mitochondria are damaged and the damage becomes permanent.

        Unfortunately, my hypothesis doesn’t fully account for the fluctuations from day to day and hour to hour of symptoms. But here is what I am using as a working theory. Cells and mitochondria do die by the boatloads (30 to 40 thousand skin cells die per MINUTE every day), so there is lots of cellular reproduction going on. As we go through die off sometimes the “balance” between our fit and less fit cells / mitochondria goes out of balance. Local “noise” in an otherwise stable process leads to temporary and local expression changes in those genes – symptom variation to us.

        Still doesn’t explain why a symptom can completely go away for years only to return – my current situation. Does the body sequester away FQs somehow and then some trigger dumps some more into the system? I think it is something like this and until all the poison is out of our system the process repeats.

        Someone on the site once postulated that people who are thinner are less affected by FQs. While this might be partially true, I think it is much more likely age dependent and people who are younger are better able to reproduce newer cells to replace the damaged ones.

        Regardless if my theory is correct most of the FQ damage is eventually repairable – especially for tendons. We just have to support our cells through supplementing for minerals and vitamins that we can’t synthesize on our own or that are used up in huge quantities due to the modulated gene expression as we could before floxing and be VERY PATIENT while the body regains the ability to synthesize its own.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 7, 2019 at 10:27 am

          FQ’s attack connective tissue by destroying collagen.The fluctuations and relapses are still a mystery.

        • L January 7, 2019 at 12:38 pm

          I hope you’re right! Although I had very little of the tendon damage, but LOTS of every other kind of damage you could imagine. I also was given prednisone at the same time, so that opens up a whole other world of injury.

        • Anna January 7, 2019 at 3:55 pm

          I’ve heard of chemo drugs causing eye inflammation and auto immune issues. Taking Cipro, or any poison that alarms the immune system would push some into immune disorders. I don’t think it is the only problem with Cipro, but I think a very common one.

  35. L January 4, 2019 at 2:20 pm Reply

    Also, (this is from a post from Lisa) here are possible symptoms of MCAD (pretty much everything but the kitchen sink) skin lesions or sores, skin rash, spots, redness, hives, persistent fatigue, itching, flushing & severe sweating, joint, bone pain, headaches, tachycardia (racing heartrate), eyes tearing/dry, eye pain, persistent body/tissue pain, difficulty exercising, vertigo, episodes of low body temperature, unexplained Vitamin B12 deficiency, scents/odors/chemical reactions, difficult menses (females), numbness & tingling in face and extremities, skin feels on fire, unexplained anxiety, sudden drops in blood pressure, fainting, persistent diarrhea, vomiting, unexplained weight loss, cognitive impairment, sinus problems, chest pain, vision problems, hair loss, mouth sores, nausea, swelling & inflammation, odd reactions to insect stings, anesthesia difficulties, anemia, thyroid problems, decreased bone density, unexplained weakness, shortness of breath, sunlight sensitivity, temperature (hot/cold) sensitivity, difficulty with foods, drinks, anaphylactoid reactions, anaphylaxis, gastrointestinal pain, bloating, unexplained medication reactions, enlarged liver/spleen, liver/spleen/bladder/kidney pain, enlarged lymph nodes, frequent urination, recurring infections, neuropathic pain, constipation, iron deficiency, unexplained bruising, bleeding, malabsorption, intermittent tinnitus or hearing problems.

  36. ciprovictim January 4, 2019 at 2:35 pm Reply

    how did you feel after the first ozone treatment? Did you have reflox symptoms?

    • Barbara Arnold January 5, 2019 at 12:06 am Reply

      Can’t remember exactly how many, about the third or 4th session I had what you call a herx re action, which felt like being refloxed. This is normal and it went away later on.

  37. Andrea January 4, 2019 at 5:16 pm Reply

    Has anyone ever tried Colloidal Magnesium?

    • Don M January 5, 2019 at 7:39 am Reply

      Isn’t Dr. Carolyn Dean’s Remag actually a form of Colloidal Magnesium. She calls it “pico magnesium” because the molecules are so small.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 9:37 am Reply

        The info I find on her ReMag suggests it is,indeed,an ionic form.Like I wrote,I tried to ask for a link to the source of the ionic mag. warning on the mommypotamus website but it didn’t work.Someone else might try to ask her.

        Here some info about getting floxed,by Carolyn Dean.She,too,thinks that npeople,low in magnesium are extra prone to fluoride damage,and she,too,thinks the fluoride in FQ’s is the main cause of getting floxed:


        This/her :”One action is to irreversibly bind with magnesium making it unavailable to the hundreds of enzyme functions that require it” sheds light on why some people get floxed,and other people don’t.And why older people (>60 years) are more prone to damage;they,more often than younger people,have a Mag. deficiency.(why you,Don,used FQ’s many times with little problems and then,all of a sudden,became a Floxie?).Not enough magnesium to “catch” the free fluorine,which then wrecks havoc on your body.

        It also explains why many of the symptoms are mag.deficiency related.The anxiety,sleep disorders,heart pulptations,hyper/hypoglycemea,etc.;are mag.deff. symptoms.Other symptoms are caused by the free fluoride,causing tremendous damage to mitochondria,nucleus- and mitochondrial DNA etc.

        Why,on earth,do “scientists think that “,what works in their test tubes (in vitro) works the same in human bodies (in vivo)? And why didn’t they discover the different working in vivo while doing those tests? Did they even do these (Fase 3) tests at all,or are those “ghost written”,which seems to be the trend,nowadays?

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 7:52 am Reply

      Andrea,first of all:don’t overdo mag.supplementing,which has (almost) the same symptoms as a mag. defficiency.There’s a lot of info about all the different mag. supp’s: here is an excellent webpage about the different forms on the market,and why one form doesn’t suite all:


      It does bring some confusion.While she,herself uses Ionic Mag. for their kids,and,herself,she also wrote:”Colloidal magnesium – most likely ineffective and possibly hazardous (Bergner)”.I can’t find this Bergner info,and tried to ask for a link in the comments but didn’t manage to do so( it says”You have to agree to the comment policy”but I can’t find any button/possibility to do so and my comment isn’t placed).

      • L January 5, 2019 at 11:20 am Reply

        I was taking mag (different forms) nonstop for over 3 years. Then my new integrative doctor (who put me back on the l-threonate) said there should be breaks taken with ALL supplements. He said magnesium actually loses some of its absorption ability when you take it continuously. His recommendation is either one week on, one week off, or even one month on, one month off.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 11:27 am

          I never heard,or read of this “magnesium resistance” before.Do you now of any link/source for this informathion,other than your integrative dr.?

          I do think that alternating different forms might be usefull because they all seem to work in different ways and on different parts of the body.I have nothing other than it being logic,for that.

        • L January 5, 2019 at 1:16 pm

          No, Henk, I didn’t say resistance. I said its absorption ability. There is info out there. There is a podcast in this post if you want to listen to it, but even the post itself is suggests it is common sense. http://kristensraw.com/blog/2015/01/17/taking-days-off-taking-vitamins-a-supplement-sabbatical/

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 6, 2019 at 5:15 am

          I’ll have to develop some female intuition on how,where and when to take my supp’s,I guess?

        • L January 6, 2019 at 11:57 am

          I don’t think anyone has all the answers. Sometimes you just have to go by how your body feels.

      • Andrea January 5, 2019 at 12:06 pm Reply

        Hi Henk. Don’t worry. I don’t think I’m overdoing with magnesium. Right now I’m only taking the L threonate (reccomended dosage) and vitamin D3+k2. I check regulary my Vit D levels and they’re in the normal range. Actually during the summer, when I try to expose my bare skin at least 1 hour a day to the sun, my levels increase so much, and I’m not taking any supplement at all. Anyway I always try to take a supplement for at least 2-3 months, then stop for at least 1 month.

  38. hopeless January 5, 2019 at 5:06 am Reply

    that is the one thing that perplexed me the most about this condition. the way it cycles and wax and wanes in crazy ways, i have dozens of symptoms that do this, MCAS does this alot too. it seems as if for some it can cycle for a lifetime

  39. Don M January 5, 2019 at 7:35 am Reply

    Why did my getting email notifications of new posts suddenly stop? My email has not changed. I did not knowingly opt out.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 10:37 am Reply

      You might ask Lisa why your email notifications stopped.

      At last I’ve found this,thanks to a link on Carolyn Dean’s website; a list of fluoride “enhanced” medicines,and lots of other usefull info for Floxies (the sensitivity to tea is mentioned as well):


    • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 10:39 am Reply

      And this First Aid for Floxies protocol is very important as well:


      • L January 5, 2019 at 12:36 pm Reply

        I am surprised that she failed to mention perhaps the most important supplement for counterating fluoride….selenium, which can be gotten in a couple daily brazil nuts.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 1:15 pm

          That’s the first time I read this,as well.(Almost) all so called experts on fluoride poisoning by medicines agree on magnesium as being the most important supp. for Floxies. Thanks for telling us.

        • L January 5, 2019 at 2:15 pm

          never considered ocean spray an issue…the beach was so therapeutic for me, once I was actually able to walk on the sand again. I wonder if the fluoride from that though is different? ie natural vs synthetic. it is damn hard to avoid. I buy distilled water and then add back the minerals. I avoid it in toothpaste, and anything else I think has it. Hard when at a restaurant though that doesn’t offer bottled water. I just forego, usually.

          Before I found an holistic DDS, I went back to the dentist I had been seeing, whom I really liked. I mentioned the whole Cipro debacle to her and warned her against using it. She smiled and laughed and said “I do fluoride treatments all the time.” I could tell from her laugh that she thought I was being overly dramatic. I just looked at her with a hard stare and said “no this isn’t a laughing matter. You NEED to stop using it.” I never went back to her. (can’t recall, but I probably sent her a bunch of handouts too.) My holistic dds (Huggins trained) is more expensive, but not THAT much more, and certainly not considering the consequences of not going back to traditional DDS. (He also removed all my silver amalgams.)

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 6, 2019 at 9:07 am


          Did her laugh sound like “Gna,gna” ? I now that from comic books;those are the evil persons.

          The “I do fluoride treatments all the time” tells it all.

        • L January 6, 2019 at 12:07 pm

          yeah, and the really sad thing is, of ALL the dentists I have ever seen (and there have been a lot) she was one of the nicest. I really like her. But to be that out of touch. ugh. well, maybe she took the info to heart….

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 5, 2019 at 11:01 am Reply
  40. Dee January 5, 2019 at 7:54 am Reply

    My email notifications stopped too???? I’m not getting all sorts of emails that usually come through?? Do you have yahoo mail???

  41. Andrea January 5, 2019 at 12:30 pm Reply

    Hi guys. Ever heard of Nicotinamide Riboside (NR) ? It’s a form of Vitamin B3 (niacin), which is sold by many commercial names. The most famous is probably TruNiagen. The studies done on it, seem to be very promising. The claims are that, since it’s a precursor of NAD+, using this supplement should boost your NAD+ levels, thus giving you lots of positive things, like DNA repair, antiaging effects etc.
    I’ve read quite a few about it, in the last weeks. So a few days ago I decided to order a bottle (from life extension) and try it. Yesterday, after dinner I swallowed my first pill.
    This morning, and I don’t know if it was just a coincidence, I felt very bad. Expecially in my head. Lots of confusion, brain fog. Call it whatever you prefer. But I wasn’t feeling okay. I was almost sure I was getting into a relapse. Since I’ve already read about the side effects of this particular supplement, I think I understood why I felt that way this morning. So I took a vit B complex with some methylfolate in it. And after 30 minutes or so, I felt better.
    Long story short, NR could be very helpful for some people, but people with MTHFR should be very careful with it. I’m starting to think that I have MTHFR. I dont know, probably it’s just a conjecture, but I’d like to read your opinions.
    Here’s a link about NR :


    And here’s the link that explain the problems with NR and MTHFR :


    • Henk Noordhuizen January 7, 2019 at 9:11 am Reply

      Andrea,this info has nothing to do with your reaction,but years ago I read an article about Dr. Hoffer who cured a small group of patients with Schizophrenia by giving them very high daily doses of vit. B3.After a few month aqll were cured.

      In the article was a warning that such a high dose can only be given under very controled conditions,with constant monitoring of the patient,because it can be dangerous for the liver and kidneys.

      Some B-vitamines can be taken apart from the complex,with other B-vitamines the situation is more complicated.Might also be a first reaction.

    • L January 7, 2019 at 12:23 pm Reply

      I had read so many good things about NAD+ that I actually did IVs. They are long. I three rounds, three days in a row and each lasted around 4 hours. (It was actually less than the recommended amount but it was all I could afford.) They are also using these to help those getting off drugs get through the worst stages. I can’t say for sure what it did since I only had them about 6 months ago, hoping it would help with some likely damaged DNA. But not sure how I could tell if it did. DOn’t know this place, but just pulled the link for the description https://www.hawaiinaturalmedicine.com/nad-iv-therapy/

  42. Dee January 5, 2019 at 5:31 pm Reply

    Barbara, I was thinking about you! You are always so positive! How is your husband doing? I hope he is doing better and responding to his treatments! How are you doing? I’m sure it has been trying for you and your husband. I hope you both have stayed strong and healing and good health are ahead in the New Year! Sending good thoughts to you!! Dee

    • Barbara Arnold January 6, 2019 at 12:22 am Reply

      Dee, I am really touched by your kind words. Thankyou for asking. It’s been a long and bumpy road, but we are getting there. He had a 5 hour operation to remove a lump in his neck, back in October, then another small one in November to have a feeding tube fitted in his stomache. He’s been having 2 chemo and 23 radiotherapy sessions and he has one chemo and 6 radiotherapy sessions to go. Hopefully then he will recover slowly into the new year. It’s curative so we are already making plans. The hardest part for him has been not able to eat and he obsesses about food. I have to feed him a special diet through the tube in his stomache. Boy oh boy is he going to make up for it when he’s well again.
      We have had ups and downs, and it’s ironic because when he say’s things like, “my brain’s not working” I say “welcome to my world” ha ha. I have said that many times over the past few months when he say’s he’s hurting or he’s this or that. It’s been really hard, but like everything, nothing stays the same forever. I personally am doing okay apart from really bad pain in my achilles during the night, which wakes me up. But the strange thing is as soon as I use the loo the pain goes.I have cried a lot, but to me that’s natural in our situation. We are both strong positive people, but that doesn’t mean to say we don’t have our moments. We do, but this has taught me to live in the moment as much as possible as basically that’s all we have. Having said that we are fighting to be healthy this year and to fulfill the plans we lost last year.
      I havn’t changed my mind about Doctors in general, but there are some extrodinary ones out there. Like the surgeon that saved my husbands life. On this journey we have met some really good ones but also some who should never be in the profession. But I guess that’s human nature. We have both been poisoned and we both have survived and for that I’m grateful.
      I am in awe of all you amazing courageous floxy friends and how, somehow you get through each day. I hope with all my heart you all have a good healing year. Stay strong and fight when you can and flow with the days you can’t. Hopefully you will get to a point you can have a good life.
      Thankyou Dee for allowing me to express myself. And thankyou for your kindness to a complete stranger although united in this fight. xxx

      • Madge Hirsch January 6, 2019 at 11:13 am Reply

        Hi Barbara – good to hear your husband is making progress. It helps having a good surgeon. Funny you mention the Achilles pain when lying down . I get that too sometimes – like someone has just stuck a knife in it! Luckily it tends to be more in the evening than when I am asleep. I hope all your plans for this year come to fulfillment and that you both find healing. Bonne Année!

        • Barbara Arnold January 7, 2019 at 4:05 am

          Thanks Madge. Yes it’s strange as I mostly get the achillies pain when I’m sleeping. It wakes me up and then I need the loo. I can’t figure if it’s the pain that wakes me or the need to use the loo. Strange thing is once I’ve used the loo and get back in bed the pain gradually dampen’s right down and I go back to sleep ( thanks to the use of CBDa earlier ). Sometimes it feels like my achillies are going to explode. When it’s that bad my achillies are very very sore the next day. If it continues relentlessly I use Kratom and in half an hour the pain is almost completely gone (bliss). Apart from that and the odd dizziness and breathlessness I’m good. Of course I get tired but I do try and push myself to walk a bit every day if possible, doing this again makes me feel better. I actually don’t feel 75 years and I believe if I hadn’t been floxed I would be pretty fit. Who knows. I don’t take any allopathic drugs and will do my best not to in the future. I have slightly high cholestrol but I’m not worried about it. I read something a while back that women should not be on cholestrol drugs unessessarily. When I read what some floxies have been through, I think I’m lucky, even though before I knew what happened to me I didn’t feel that way. Some people suffer terribly. I don’t know how L survived with what she went through. It’s horrendous. I’m just concentrating getting my husband through his treatment now, then sod it we are going all out to enjoy ourselves. I hope you continue to improve Madge. Feliz Ano Nuevo xx

      • Dee January 6, 2019 at 12:05 pm Reply

        Barbara so glad to hear your husband is healing and will get better!! Also glad to hear that you are doing well too!! Yeah!! for you two making plans for later this year to have some fun!! More power to you!! I am 18 months out and doing mostly better. I am still fighting some lingering symptoms that I pray will go away by the 2 year mark. I still wake up a little early with some anxiety, low pulsating tinnitus and several bathroom visits!!! The rest of my day goes pretty well most days! I am “slowly” very slowly improving on those lingering symptoms. I hope my body will balance out soon !! How long before you felt mostly recovered?? My biggest obstacle is worrying about all of these remaining symptoms and of course possibly having a relapse. I know neither are in my control so trying to live in the moment and hope for a bright and healthy future!!! All the best to you and your hubby for healing and good health!! Blessings.

        • Barbara Arnold January 7, 2019 at 4:13 am

          Dee, have you thought about CBD oil for your anxiety ?? I’ve read it can help a lot. Also there is a ‘tapping’ therapy, EFT where you tap on certain pressure points on your face and hands. This form of therapy can be very effective for anxiety. You could probably google it, but there are a lot of hypnotherapists that do it to. Just a thought. Lots of good health and healing to you to. Hang in there Dee, you’ll get there xx

      • Madge Hirsch January 8, 2019 at 11:43 am Reply

        The Achilles pain sounds pretty bad. I feel in a cleft stick. My leg tendonitis is so bad – hips and thighs – that walking is painful and then often makes the Achilles hurt too so I don’t want to do it. But then I fret about being too sedentary. I try to garden for a couple of hours whenever the weather permits – last week was able to be out in a t shirt! But I feel I am not exercising enough. I do feel my age now though I am only 66. I have more or less despaired of my tendons getting better. They seem to be getting worse – I had to get my husband to mash the spuds last night my right shoulder and wrist were so bad . Where do you get the kratom from?
        Definitely don’t take a statin . They poison the body like FQs but more insidiously.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 9, 2019 at 1:26 am

          Madge,I don’t know why you want to try Kratom but I really want to warn you:it is a quite dangerous drug.Not only can you get hooked on it (it works on the same receptors as opiats,and the withdrawel symptoms are more or less equal),but it can give quite severe adverse reactions.Might not be worth the risk of trying it.

        • Barbara Arnold January 9, 2019 at 1:40 am

          Madge, I use Kraatje, it works well for me. Of course it’s like anything, you could get addicted to if you abuse it. Same as alcohol, same as chocolate, sugar etc. I use it only when I really need it and it gives me relief after about 20 minutes which last for hours. It makes me feel myself again. I got a capsule machine and make my own capsules as the taste of Kratom is disgusting, so the capsules work well. Much better than any allopathic meds.

        • Barbara Arnold January 9, 2019 at 1:52 am

          Henk,….like anything if you abuse it you could become addicted. Alcohol, cigarettes, sugar, salt, chocolate. We are all grownups and as long as you take it responsibly it is perfectly safe. It works like an opiate but it’s not an opiate, it’s attracted to the pain receptors the same as a pain killer would be. And just like pain killer’s you could become addicted if you abuse them or take them for long periods. I take Kratom only when I am in a lot of pain which then it gives me instant relief. I may not use it again for a week, but I can tell you it’s amazing for me. I am not advocating it’s use, and I can only tell you that for me it’s been a godsend. I researched it thoroughly beforehand and am perfectly satisfied it’s safe as long as, like I said before, you don’t abuse it. As you know there is also a pharma lobby that of course is against it, well, they would be wouldn’t they. Something else they can’t patent. They are going after CBD oil now as they can’t stand that they are missing out on the profits from this.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 9, 2019 at 2:03 am

          I agree;using it in a responsable way greatly reduces the risks.But here,in the Netherlands,Kratom is easy to obtain,and during the last years has become a populair drug.Because it is used by so many people now,knowledge about the risks is growing fast,and here,on websites,educating users about the risks,and how to use the drug of choice in the most responsable way,there are quite alarming messages about Kratom.I think Kratom isn’t any better than real opiates (Oxicontin,etc.) regarding the risks and benifits,maybe it’s even worse.

        • Bob January 9, 2019 at 4:08 pm

          I have been tempted to use kratom but have been afraid of becoming addicted as I am in pain all the time. If it actually worked I would be tempted to use it all the time.

        • Barbara Arnold January 9, 2019 at 4:03 am

          Henk, right. Your entitled to your opinion as am I. All I can say is I have been using it responsibly for around 8 months and am certainly not addicted and after taking it I have felt well for at least 2 days. I have not seen any evidence of bad re actions to it in my research, but there are warnings it could be addictive. Again so many things can be if not used correctly. For me, it’s a safety natural plant drug that comforts me to know if things get really painful I have something I can use which helps me. Much better than opiates which also gives you brain fog, which Kratom doesn’t. So I disagree that it’s worse than real opiates as it does not alter the mind, it’s also very popular in Europe and the States. Again, I am not advocating it, and I would urge anyone contiplating it to do the research as I have. I will continue to take it responsibly as and when I need it. I don’t take ANY of Big Pharma crap and hope I will never have to. Unfortunately some peoples genetics makes it so they have to.

        • L January 9, 2019 at 9:46 am

          I’m with you Barbara. We all have to do what we need to do to get through this. I would never recommend sleeping pills to anyone. But during the first few horrific months of this, when I was gasping for every single breath, taking a pill was the only reprieve I got from the suffocation. And it only lasted one hour…two if I was lucky. But I wouldn’t have made it through without that. I weaned myself off as soon as I was able to get 6 hours sleep, which took a few months, and sleep was not nearly as much of an issue anymore after that.

  43. L January 5, 2019 at 9:21 pm Reply

    Lukasz, and others who have had pelvic area pain…I wanted to share this link. I keep running into mast cell activation syndrome over and over, and in researching that, i came across info on the PEA. I have no idea where to get it, but it is being used for interstitial cystitis which is what i suspect we had/have. https://neuropathie.nu/english-articles/interstitial-cystitis-the-role-of-the-mast-cell-and-treatment-with-palmitoylethanolamide-pea.html

    • L January 5, 2019 at 9:26 pm Reply

      and i found this site that sells it in the US. the comments talk about relieving all types of pain…again, I know NOTHING about this…and I am usually skeptical, but just wanted to put the info out there. https://vitalitus.com/pea/

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 6, 2019 at 4:35 am Reply

      For Andrea,and others in the south of the EU;PEA is sold there under the name Palmidrol.

      There is a 100% pure form of PEA produced here,in the Netherlands.No chemical ads,and a vegetarian capsule.There is PeaPure (100% Pea),and PeaPlex (with added B-vitamines,for the nerve system).And there is a salve (Creme).Wit a price of almost €1 per capsule it’s quite expensive (3 caps/day),and I read somewere that it might take several weeks to fully work,but I gues that’s not a problem for those who need it for chronic pains;they’ll need to take it daily anyway.I don’t know yet if it’s also uaable for short term pains like headache etc.;will try to find more info on that.Way too expensive for my budget :-((

      Here a link to the webshop selling the PeaPure and PeaPlex products;in the upper right of the page u can chose for other languages (Dutch,spanish,german,french:


      • Andrea January 6, 2019 at 7:45 am Reply

        Henk, I’m already familiar with PEA, but thank you anyway for your kindness and to take the time to share the infos about it. 🙂

    • Andrea January 6, 2019 at 7:40 am Reply

      L, I’ve used PEA for many months ( at least 4-5) in the past, I remember I’ve also shared a link in this forum. My opinion about it is that it really didn’t do much for me. At the beginning I first thought it was working, but after a few days it stopped completely. At least it is almost side effect free (that’s what they say).

      • L January 6, 2019 at 12:00 pm Reply

        shoot. I had never heard of it before. oh well.

    • Bob January 8, 2019 at 2:57 pm Reply

      I have been on PEA for about 2 weeks. Nothing so far.

  44. Andrea January 6, 2019 at 7:43 am Reply

    Anyway, yesterday I’ve posted a coment with a couple of links in it. It’s still awaiting moderation, but it’s a very interesting post for me. So, as soon as it’s visible, please scroll up, and read it, it’s important for me to read all your opinions.

  45. Flox January 6, 2019 at 9:15 am Reply

    Anyone is dealing with post FQ depressions? How long will they last?

    • L January 6, 2019 at 12:13 pm Reply

      I think pretty much everyone has, and there is no one answer to this. Not to mention that you can have actually flq caused depression, plus you get depressed just from all the side effect. The time line varies person to person. You can help it by doing as much as you are able by doing things that your are able to do that are healthy (going for walks, meditating, enjoying music, etc) and eating healthy. I would try adding in turmeric supplements (95% curcuminoids). Studies have shown this to work as well (better?) than Prozac. plus because it is anti-inflammatory (which may be the reason it helps with depression) it benefits inflammation elsewhere in your body too. https://www.healthline.com/health/depression/turmeric-for-depression#how-to-use

      • Madge Hirsch January 8, 2019 at 12:32 pm Reply

        I don’t think I have had depression from Cipro but certainly what I call black thoughts. Now I am able to dismiss them with ” that’s just the Cipro talking”. But the continual physical symptoms and pain are depressing. When year after year passes with little let up despair can set in.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 7, 2019 at 7:22 am Reply

      One reason for these post FQ depressions is a magnesium defficiency.Another cause is the stress and pain from the adverse reactions,and the uncertainty of ,how long it will take to recover,and if full recovery will be possible.

      The fact that the medical industry caused all our problems but is very unwilling to do research on what can be done to help floxies,or even,to admit that they caused all this missery in the first place,doesn’t help at all.

  46. Andrea January 7, 2019 at 4:24 am Reply

    Can someone please explain to me why a previous comment I’ve posted is taking so long to get approved? It was about a supplement I’ve tried and there were a couple of links about it. Defenetly not sponsoring, or anything Luke that…

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 7, 2019 at 7:13 am Reply

      When there are more than 1 links in a comment,Lisa has to give an approvement to get it placed.When she is busy,this can take several days.Be patient,Andrea.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 7, 2019 at 7:51 am Reply

      Andrea,or any body else,tried vitamine B1/Thiamine for a while,and did thies help.From what I read on Hormonesmatter,and after doing more research on this vitamine I’m convinced that this might be a very important supp. for floxies.According to what Erin found you’ll have to take Thiamine and Magnesium together for optimal effect,and if using this supp. for a longer period you’ll have to re-balance your other B-vitamines by switching to B-complex for a while.Better read the whole page for full information:


      • Henk Noordhuizen January 7, 2019 at 7:53 am Reply

        Oh,Erin is the woman behind this Hormonesmatter blog.

    • L January 7, 2019 at 11:37 am Reply

      I think the issue might be more than one link. Usually if I am posting something I want to put two links in, I will only actually post one of the links and the put in the words to search for the other. Also, I want to point out that only Lisa moderates this site, and that is in addition to her regular job, and the rest of her life and all its busy-ness.

  47. Andrea January 7, 2019 at 3:09 pm Reply

    Ok. Anyway, yesterday and today, I took the Nicotinamide Riboside (NR) again. This time no side effects. First time could’ve been just a coincidence. I’ll let you guys know, if I notice something different in the next weeks. I doubt it anyway. If this kind of supplements really act as a repair on damged DNA, I think we’re talking about months or even years, before seeing some improvement.
    Right now, my current stack of supplements is this : vitamin D3 2500 iu+ K2, Magnesium L threonate 3 capsules a day and this new NR supplement, 250 mg (1 capsule a day). I’d like to add some zinc, maybe in the dosage of 10 mg, but I don’t know. Zinc could be tossic.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 7, 2019 at 3:38 pm Reply

      Hi Andrea,like I wrote a while ago,after I Mag.pulsed my bladder area and the problem had almost disappeared I started with using 100 mg Zinc.Then,after a while,when I got in the “like an 18 year old” state I cut the dose down to 50 mg’s (= 158 mgt zinc nitrate) and I use this thoughout the year,sometimes with a break of some weaks (not planned breaks,just because I sometimes forget to by a new container.Have had no indication of overdosing what-so-ever.

      I think the 10 mg dose is very low and I doubt if any positive result can be expected from it.But keep me informed about your experiences,please.

      • Andrea January 7, 2019 at 4:56 pm Reply

        Of course I will, Henk. But zinc is one of those metal you should be careful with. Most studies are contraddicting. Some say zinc is good for prostate, some say it isn’t. Actually it could be even dangerous for prostate cancer. Anyway the suggested daily dosage intake, from what I’ve read, should not exceed 15 mg. Yes I’ve read studies using up to 100 mg a day, but I really don’t konw. From what I’m reading it’s seems quite dangerous to take so much zinc for a long period of time. Anyway, have heard about zinc orotate. It should be the best absorbed form of zinc.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 8, 2019 at 2:17 am

          It is important for the prostate,but also for a long list of other things nerves,eyes,depression, skin etc.It’s safe to use 100mg. for a short periode (few months),up to 40 mg. is safe for longer periods,and doses a bit higher (50-80 mg) probably as well.It is advised to not use it on a continues base (years,without brakes).

          The articles you linked to are about using zinc supplements WHILE you have prostate cancer;this is,as far as I know,the paradox of zinc for prostate cancer.To low zinc intake is supposed to add to he risk of getting it,too high zinc intake is bad as well.

          To make things even more complex: eating carbs,even worse;eating sugar and/or drinking alcohol takes much zinc from your body.

          Probably the safest way to supplement zinc is eating a handfull of pumpkin seeds every day;this is a traditial, wellknown way to keep your prostate healthy.

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