Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




22,079 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Joanne. February 2, 2019 at 10:06 am Reply

    Rene Caisse & The History of Essiac Tea – Essiac Facts

    I just wanted to give you another site on the history in case you were interested in it ❤

    Essiac Tea is an herbal remedy that a nurse, Rene Cassie, was using for 50 years that was healing more than 80% of her patients and they gave her the worse cases those who the doctors tried everything and were sent home with no hope.
    Anyhow, Essiac Tea has an Amazing history of curing cancers. Please do an internet search and read about it.

    • Mike Wallbridge February 2, 2019 at 10:13 am Reply

      Thanks, Joanne. When I get back from the surgery I’ll be contacting my herbalist and mention it to him. I’m sure he’ll know all about it and probably have a supply.

  2. Mike Wallbridge February 2, 2019 at 10:40 am Reply

    Thanks, L. I don’t know what z pack is!! I’ll have to check into it.

  3. L February 2, 2019 at 1:01 pm Reply

    I just found this link by accident, but it made me wonder if those that reacted poorly to glutathione did so because it was too much, too fast… https://www.consultdranderson.com/fluoroquinolone-toxicity-cont/

  4. Mike Wallbridge February 2, 2019 at 1:57 pm Reply

    Thanks, L. But I don’t think the doctors will allow me to do that, have anything interfering with the working of the antibiotics. But worth looking into.

    • L February 2, 2019 at 2:17 pm Reply

      of course you have to do what you believe is right. Here is a start on the research though (and I can remember in the past, when I was given antibiotics for UTIs the nurse would say “eat lots of yogurt.” https://health.usnews.com/wellness/articles/getting-your-probiotic-fix-when-taking-antibiotics

      • Mike Wallbridge February 3, 2019 at 2:11 am Reply

        Hi, L. Thanks again. I’ll take along the probiotics and see if they’ll let me take them between doses of antibiotic. I’m taking magnesium too.

  5. M February 3, 2019 at 8:28 am Reply

    Hi all. Trying to figure out what has been exasperating my side effects lately (brain fog, anxiety, nerve pain, tendons, the usual…)

    One of the things I’ve narrowed it down to was the inclusion of Apple Cider Vinegar in my diet. I started taking a shot of it every day (sometimes diluted in water, but usually not) and also putting some on my salads every day. Is there any reason to think that Apple Cider Vinegar could be irritating my symptoms? Has anyone else had any issue with it? It’s really my only significant source of probiotics.

    Of course it could just be a “random cycle”, but honestly it does not feel that way. Just curious to know if anyone has had a negative experience with ACV.

    • L February 3, 2019 at 10:12 am Reply

      That does seem like it would be an odd trigger, since it’s good for gut, and the gut is connected to everything. One thing—I would not take it undiluted. The only other thing I can think of, although these are not typical signs, is histamine intolerance. Those with histamine intolerance can not have fermented foods.

      • Deborah Goodman March 14, 2019 at 7:40 am Reply

        I have come to learn anything acidic will end up not being helpful t our guts.

        • L March 14, 2019 at 9:27 am

          Except oddly organic apple cider vinegar which has been very helpful to me

  6. Mike Wallbridge February 3, 2019 at 10:22 am Reply

    Thanks for your encouragement, Melissam. I’ll write when I can. Best wishes and prayers on your own present struggle.

    • melissam February 3, 2019 at 10:46 am Reply

      Thank you Mike. That is so nice. We will pray for one another!

  7. Paul February 3, 2019 at 11:57 am Reply

    I’ve been hearing great things about the product MitoQ but when I look up the ingredients it does have alot of questionable additives in it as followed:
    Microcrystalline, Carrageenan, Hypomellose, & Silica-Colloidal Anhydrous. You’d think for the price it would be 100% organic with no chemicals. All research shows eating organic and avoiding chemicals is the way to go. Unfortunately, in desperate circumstances we take desperate measures to try to get better. At this point its hard to trust any companies that aren’t just taking advantage of people trying to get better for financial gain. We trusted our doctors and look where that got us.

    • Tricia February 3, 2019 at 12:04 pm Reply

      I did take mitoq in the very beginning. I was floxed badly 4 years ago but eventually recovered to nearly 95%. I have no idea if mito q helped or not as I was taking a lot of supplements at that time, but it did help my energy level for sure ! My nerve and tendon pain eventually phased out over time though

      • Sanjay March 11, 2019 at 3:46 pm Reply

        I was on 750mg Levofloxacin for 14 days last June and badly suffering. I haven’t try any of the remedy listed. Would you please help me with things to do in order to recover

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 3, 2019 at 12:48 pm Reply

      The free radical theory of aging is extenselively studied for over 50 years,and the results are still controversial.The info I find about MitoQ is even more fuzzy;targeted on the mitochondria (question;what,if all your mitochondria are damaged by FQ’s? Does MitoQ stiil work,here?).

      Well,it works 847 % more effective than CoQ10;science at its best,and all human beings are equel.How on earth do they determine how effective it really is? This 847 % more does,really mean it is 947% as effective as normal CoQ10? makes me wonder….

      And,of course;I can’t find any research on MitoQ,and how it works on floxies and their damaged mitochondria.And this stuff is quite expensive,as well!

      I did find info (an assumption?) that sports and other intense activity stimulates cells to make more (and healthy?) mitochondria,like I postulated a while ago.Might sporting and other intense activities really be a possibility for floxies to “repair” their mitochondria? My experience is that,after a period of being quite active (as far as being floxed allows to be) does have a possitive effect on my energy level.

      As for the docu Lisa linked for us: a real must-see,but not that much new info.As usual,the Bayer liar tells us that,compared to all the people,helped and saved by these miraculous FQ’s,the problems of adverse reactions are minor problems,actually not worth talking about.

      Well,lets see! You take the total of all users,substract the number of people who didn’t need such a hefty AB in the first place,or didn’t need ANY AB at all,then substract all the people where those FQ’s didn’t do anything positive,and the people who are damaged,a lot of them for the rest of their lives,or even died of FQ-poisoning. How many Happy FQ Users are left? Not so many,and certainly not as many as those Bayer- and other FQ makers want us to believe.And,compared to all the misery this poison caused over time,in my opinion;the balance for FQ use is convincingly on the negative side.

      Thanks,Lisa,for pointing us to that docu;in Africa,too,FQ’s are of great concern.

      • michal April 16, 2019 at 2:39 am Reply

        Well MitoQ is same expensive as package Tavanic/Levofloxacin 500mg both at the price for 60USD, so I am wondering why people that are 3 weeks on Tavanic, are complaining about high prices of MitoQ…give it try for 3-6month = 180USD/360USD , one session with doctor who will tell you nothing positive, and thinks you are crazy, and that all ATB are safe, and send you home with ibuprofen will cost you same money.

  8. Paul February 3, 2019 at 12:13 pm Reply

    Thanks Tricia! How long did you take it for?

    • Tricia February 3, 2019 at 1:38 pm Reply

      I think off and on for about 6 months! And tons of magnesium, too.

  9. Tricia February 3, 2019 at 1:38 pm Reply

    I think off and on for about 6 months! And tons of magnesium, too.

    • michal April 16, 2019 at 2:41 am Reply

      Hello Tricia, what magnesium and how much ? There are people saying 500mg -600mg, but Doctors will never approve it, I talk to friend of mine he said he is constantly on 800mg of Magnesium, but…I found it too much…how much did you take?

      • Henk Noordhuizen April 16, 2019 at 4:20 am Reply

        You can only talk about magnesium dose when referring to the bio-availibal elemental magnesium,and this differs quite a lot between de different supplements.

  10. mok February 4, 2019 at 10:51 am Reply

    can anyone send me the book The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution…in our country we dont have paypal please

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 4, 2019 at 11:46 am Reply

      That book is a compilation of info,found on the web (and on websites like floxiehope :-))

    • Jane February 8, 2019 at 5:25 pm Reply

      One good resource that you can get for free online is “The Flox Report” (AKA “My Quin Story”). It’s packed full of info (over 250 pages).

      Don’t let it scare you. It discusses a lot of the worst cases, but most people recover from being floxed. It will help you gauge the extent of your damage, and it has chapters on nutrition and supplements.

      For me, it’s been 6 years since my floxing, and I’m living my life again. I spent 2 and half years unable to walk at all and wondering if I would ever walk again. Now I can walk for miles without any pain.

      I’m convinced that the true healer is just time. Decrease your toxic load as much as possible. Eat the most nutritious diet you can, avoiding sugar, soy, caffeine, and any meat , fish, or dairy that could have trace antibiotics in it. I consider 2 supplements to be essential, Vitamin C and a good magnesium supplement. Magnesium oxide is useless. I got good results from magnesium citrate, but there could be some that are better. Soaking in Epsom salt is an excellent way to get magnesium into your system transdermally.

      If you have floxed tendons, don’t let medical practitioners push you into physical therapy too soon. Floxies don’t have tendinitis, but instead have tendinopathy. It’s not good to work a tendon that still deteriorating. You’ll know when the deterioration stage has ended and the healing stage has begun.

      Here’s a strange tip. Once my tendons entered the healing stage, they were still sore all the time, and I babied them. Then one day my husband took me out for the first time in a long time since I’d been floxed, and I rigorously exerted my tendons on that outing. It was really painful, but then, not too long afterwards, they completely healed. It’s like, once they’d started healing, they needed to be pushed to the limit to heal completely.

  11. Andrea February 4, 2019 at 6:05 pm Reply

    Hi guys. As I wrote on some previous post, I’m experiencing GI problems after taking a probiotic for a few days. It’s been a few weeks now, if not a month already, and my symptoms aren’t improving. I’m eating clean, doing physical activity and drinking water. But i’m constanltly bloated, costipated and sometimes I experience diarreha. I’m eating prunes, and drinking aloe juice. But nothign seems to work. I was thinking about a laxative. Any suggestion?

    • Remus February 4, 2019 at 11:51 pm Reply

      Hi Andrea prunes might not be the best of foods right now for you due to their high sugar concentration also juices have very high sugar concentration themselves maybe just try eating the fruits raw and don’t overdo it, i’ve been having GI problems myself ever since i’ve been floxed 4 months ago, the probiotics if they’re a good strain i think they do help but they’re not really a cure all try to look into the low fodmap diet ,that worked for me but keep in mind that you’re symptoms might wax and wane regardless of what you do at least that’s been my experience . You said your eating clean what are you eating exactly ? if you have intestinal issues anything gluten or dairy can be a big culprit regardless if you have a food sensitivity or not.

      • Andrea February 5, 2019 at 3:56 pm Reply

        HI Remus. Nice to “meet” you. I’m eating all the things that made feel good until I screwed my gut flora with those probiotics a month ago. so, I’m eating whole grains, veggies, boith cooked and raw, fruits, nuts, legumes, poultry, meat, fish. All the good stuff. Real food. Avoiding all the refined crap. But. to get more specific, even when I was eating a 80% crap diet, I never experienced GI issues. It all started after the probiotics. Here’s my theory : many people experience bloating or costipation with the PB, but after a little while, or if they stop, they retourn to normal. But me, more specifically, my body, as a whole, has been so damaged by the FQ, that it can’t really regenerate after an “attack”, in this case the PB…I don’t know, but I feel this is the only answer. Many people expereince terrible relapses just by drnking coffee or taking the wrong medication eg: NSAID’s.

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 5, 2019 at 1:36 am Reply

      Andrea,prunes and aloe are often used as a laxative,by people,having constipation.And both are rich in sugar,

      Aloe is not suited for long term internal use,and people with sensitive intestines should not use it at all,nor should people with kidney problems.

      Research has shown that,feeded to rats,aloe causes the growth of tumors in their intestines.No research done with humans,yet,but the safety of aloe is questionable.Aloe is extremely over-hyped at the moment because many farmers have started growing aloe crops and are promoting their products without any research on the health claims.

      What kind of probiotics do you use? During the time I used Lactospore I noticed that,when I had diarrea (comming from the barbeque of my neighbour),I didn’t feel sick,and the diarrea lasted for just a few hoursafter which my stools got normal again.Had a few more cases of food poisoning in which my intestines recovered in the same,remarkably short time.Might,partly,be because of the Flecainide I use,which makes the stool hard;I have to use extra fibers daily to prevent getting intestinal bleedings (again) because of this.But since I used this Lactospore for a few monht my stool is perfect,if not too compact from that Flecainide.Before the Lactospore it was not that stable,but changing from day to day.

      I do advise you,again,to look for someone who can help you build a magnetic pulser;this helped me,in the past,after 3 years of loose stools (thanks to a course of Amoxicillin and Metronidazole).It took around 2 weeks to solve the problem;after that two weeks my loose stools went to normal and my carb over-sensitivity went to a level where I could eat bread and things like panetonne in reasonaqble quantities,again.Not like before that rediculous B course,but acceptable.

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 5, 2019 at 1:42 am Reply

      Have you considered you might have a gluten intolerance? Or an intolerance for other kinds of food? AB’s are the perfect way for creating food intolerances,and,because italians love to eat pasta’s and bread that should be the first thing to look at,considering your problem.

      • Andrea February 5, 2019 at 4:04 pm Reply

        Henk, I’ve tried, only for a few days, to eat gluten free. Not because I was feeling bad while eating pasta or stuff like that, but just to try it. Nver noticed anything. So I kept eating the way I always ate. Now, all the healhty stuff, seem to gave me extreme bloating. All the rich in fibers foods : whole grains, vegetables, both cooked or raw and so on…It really seem that the PB screwed my gut health. The lady who sold me that stuff, it was very expensive, told me that it was normal, for a few days, to experience some discomfort, but I never thought something like that could happen. But Hey, welcome to the wonderful world of floxies!
        PS the probiotics I used I called enterelle, to take for 6 days, after that, you should start with another one for 2 weeks, called bifiselle.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 6, 2019 at 1:45 am

          Hi Andrea,I think you might be right.I found some info about those PB’s and and what amazes me is the fact that you don’t have to use 2 products,like you wrote,but three;after the Enterelle and the Bificelle you have to use Ramnoselle.All made in Italy,of course :-)) You can switch language to italian,or several other languages,if you’d like:


          Could it be that the fact you didn’t do the whole protocol,al three products,?

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 6, 2019 at 1:48 am
        • Andrea February 6, 2019 at 4:50 pm

          Today I spoke to the lady whos sold me those probiotics. She’s a specialist in “naturopathic medice”…anyway she told me that it’s very common to experience these side effects during the treatment. She also told me I should have called her as soon as I started to feel bloated, she would’ve gave me another poduct, from the same line, specifically made for these kind of symptmoms. Right now, I’m not buying anything. Let’s see if I get better by my self…

        • lisalisa12years February 7, 2019 at 1:39 am

          I was floxed in 2007. I didn’t know anything about what levequin did to me. I also believe it’s a type of auto immune system interference. I’ve had tendon tears, neuropathy, now I’m having heart issues. I’ve always had a strong heart. I take vitamins and minerals subliguals so to absorb as much as possible. My gut is a horrible mess. Most people complain about going to much. I’m totally opposite. These are the extremely serious issues adding the newest aortic aneurysm may happen, meaning 90% of floxies need to be very aware of their aortic veins. Get screened for any weakened arteries. Add perfect teeth just breaking into pieces. All calcium depleted. I guess that was all happening prior to my discovering the cause of everything. The horrible nightmares, tremors the pain of the lightest item being placed on your leg. My 2lb cat caused severe pain. I’m not trying to discourage anyone. I’m extremely happy for those who have gotten better. I just don’t believe I will ever get better. I keep getting more things happening to me. Just when I was ok torn shoulder tendons deal with it. Neuropathy b6 and lots of biotin takes that burning pain away. Deal with it. Intercranial pressure , deal with it. Teeth breaking, heart damage. Totally messed up gut. I can’t deal with it anymore. This company needs to be held accountable for everything it’s done to us. All of us. I was okay with perhaps the four rare side effects listed as may cause dizziness, drowsiness, diahreah or constipation. I am not nor never will be okay with torn tendons, neuropathy ( progressive) heart damage. Teeth breaking , intercranial pressure. Aortic aneurysm disection or any other horrible things that it has caused. It is not okay with me at all. They know it gets into the mitrocodrial the deepest part of a humans cell. They need to figure out how to reverse it or at the very least stop it from doing more damage. No one asked to become permanently disabled. Physically and mentally. Emotionally this is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to deal with as most of you all have. I’m PISSED off knowing that 12+ years ago I was poisoned by levequin. I am extremely PISSED off THAT it’s still happening to other people. Young healthy people. All monies made by this maker of these poisons needs to be put towards finding out how to stop it. Fix what it’s 💔 broken and NEVER EVER AGAIN. Prescribe it to anyone. I would have taken my chances and I’m certain my sinus infection would have gone away without causing serious damage. I never in a million years would have imagined at 42 and in the best physical shape of my life I would have so many horrible things happen to me. I pray for those who have been hurt. I pray for you all to continue trying to get better. Make certain you get vitamins and minerals into you no matter what. Don’t ever give up. They need to be close to something that just might stop this. May you all have the most healthy days possible.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 7, 2019 at 2:53 am

          Andrea,I wondered why there is this regime of taking there three different probiotics one after another,and I think that the lady who sold you the Enterelle might be right (she’s a specialist in this,you wrote),and that the side effects from the Enterelle might vanish after having done the second part of the protocol ( Bifiselle),and the third part (Ramnoselle).After all,with this protocol you’re modifying your gut flora in steps,and the Enterelle contains a ferment,which eplains the bloating and other discomforts.

          I don’t know the prices that “specialiste” asks for those probiotics,but at the webpage I pointed to (the cheap one) the Enterelle costs € 9,90 ,and the Bifiselle and Ramnoselle both cost €15 ,and that’s cheap;I spent a lot more money in the past (after the Amox and Metronidazole).I dó think this lady should have informed you about the possible side effects,and about the way this protocol works (or,is supposed to work). Maby she didn’t want to scare you of with the price of the total “package”of €40 ,but when this works it is well worth the price,I guess.

          The lady might be a little bit more expensive on those three probiotics,but at the cheap webshop you’ll have to pay shipping costs.Keep that in mind.But the webshop is in Italy and the small packages fit the mailbox,so shipping costs might be low.In case you might consider to do the seond and first part of the protocol,here is the link to that webshop,again,this time the italian version (specially for you ;-))


          Might be better to ask that specialiste,first,if you can finish the protocol by doing stage 2 and 3,or if it’s a better idea to start,again,with stage 1,the Enterelle,when you want to give this protocol a second chance.

        • Jane February 8, 2019 at 5:52 pm

          lisalisa12years, I’m so sorry to hear that you’re still suffering after all this time. My heart goes out to you.

          I agree that something should be done to stop this madness. The drug company knows full well what Fluoroquinolones are doing to people, yet doctors still prescribe it like candy. Fluoroquinolones should never have been used as anything except an antibiotic of last resort for life-threatening infections.

        • lisalisa12years February 9, 2019 at 6:41 am

          Absolutely agree. I don’t think they are good for anything. Save a life only for it to be destroyed piece by piece year after year. We’ve all have been through so much. My ankles were so distorted and swollen for about 3 years. Have problems with spans of time. Days weeks months years all get confusing I keep a journal just for when an absolute date is necessary. My Achilles tendon didn’t tear they certainly stretched out a lot and stayed swollen along with my feet. Believe caused by undiagnosed heart issues of which I’m now aware of. The swelling has gone away. I wear elastic support bands over my ankles they just slip over my heels and cross over the top of my foot. Really helps support the Achilles tendon. Still if I knew now what I didn’t know then. I would most likely say NO to any one of these poisons. Taking my chances with the infection. My primary gave me levequin a Dr I knew since I was 17 years old. I went back to him about 8 years in to tell him to NEVER ever give these toxins to anyone else. He said they’re FDA approved. I then asked him when was the last time he actually checked for updated side effects. He had nothing to say. Still trying my best as we all are. Hoping you all have a good today.

    • Bob February 9, 2019 at 10:43 am Reply

      Celery juice everyday first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. Do that for about 2 or 3 weeks.

      • lisalisa12years February 9, 2019 at 4:38 pm Reply

        I’m going into my 13th year of being floxed. I’ve done just about everything possible to help. Being I had no idea what happened to me the 1st five years. It was able to get into my cells deep. It literally knocked me out for almost three years. I was doing okay. Then neuropathy. Then heart valve regurgitation now left ventricular functions low. I had my gut feeling great. Daily 💩 now again having issues. Chronic migrain intercranial pressure. I’m going to go back to basics beginning on Monday. Hopefully it will straighten me out again. The brain fog memory loss is the worst thing. Feels as if there’s no knowledge in my head yet I’m a college Graduate with degrees hard getting the info out. As you see In this post I’m all over the place. Going to try the lemon juice and olive oil cleanse before starting strict regiment diet and exercise. Hoping you all have the best day possible.

    • Philippa February 10, 2019 at 11:25 pm Reply

      Hi there to you all; I am revisiting this site which is so useful more out of curiosity. I am terribly sorry to hear of all your problems, particularly you Lisa. I was floxed in 2011 and it has taken years to feel vaguely normal, though I had some remissions too. The worst symptoms for us ( I had only just remarried!) were mental: it was like I went mad. I don’t recognise myself for many of those years, at all. Only really coming back to my self when I stopped worrying about my weight which was fluctuating and started focusing on the microbiome.
      In addition to probiotics, which are often best taken as Soil Based Organisms, you need to feed them with Prebiotics such as Raw banana powder or raw potato starch. This helps the microbiome restore to the 85/15% ideal of good to bad bugs!
      Also Probiotics can be tricky especially if they are corn or milk based. (It happens.)
      I had Coeliac disease anyway, but I have added Hashimotos and probably RA too as well as every food intolerance under the sun. BUT I now have days when I feel good again so please never give up. I have spent so much time not wanting or able to get out of bed, but when I addressed these absolute fundamentals I improved.
      It’s not all plain sailing too much of any treat (wine, coffee, chocolate, cheese!) will set me back.
      Thank you for a marvellous site.

      • Henk Noordhuizen February 11, 2019 at 2:04 am Reply

        Thank you for sharing,Philippa.

      • Andrea February 11, 2019 at 10:12 am Reply

        Hi Philippa, thanks for the infos. Never heard of soil based organism. What do you suggest? I’ve checked Garden of Life, and saw that they have this particular kind of probiotics plus the prebiotics (fiber) too. Do you know this brand. I always heard great things about it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 11, 2019 at 10:57 am

          Soil based organisms are used for gardening,to (re-)activate the soil organisms.It is called Bokashi,and got populair during the last decennia becuase farmers noticed it brings healthier plants and bigger crops.

          People with Crohn disease and other intestinal problems also use it to ferment a drink that proved to promote gut health,and with amazing success.

          It’s sold under the name EM-X,and the bacterial organisms vary by state;the bacteries are “fitting” the soil of the place where you live (actually;it’s a selection of the bacteries that are selected from healthy grounds in your own area).Like the poop-transplantation,”stolen” by the “orthodox” medicine,from the alternative medicine where it was introduced and developed as an answer to heavily damaged gut flora,by AB’s,it’s used to re-populate soil ánd guts.

          As far as I know,this EM is sold all over the world;here (NL;delivery to most european countries) we have this shop,but you may find shops outside Europe as well,and lots of information on the web:


          The process is simple;you ferment a melasse solution with the EM-X ferment and use it as a probiotic.

  12. Andrea February 4, 2019 at 6:07 pm Reply

    The thing that pisses me off the most is that I’ve never experienced these kind of problems in two plus years, and after taking this damn probiotic it all went down the hill…

    • L February 5, 2019 at 7:32 am Reply

      Henk mentioned aloe. Didn’t know it was used for constipation, BUT it is helpful for interstitial cystitis and the feeling of pressure, so it would be a good one to try. Maybe hit two problems at the same time. (I use the aloe caps.)

      • Henk Noordhuizen February 5, 2019 at 10:41 am Reply

        Andrea did ,and still does try it but it doesn’t seem to work;actually it does seem to do the opposite of what he hopes it,to do.

    • Cipropoisoned February 6, 2019 at 6:08 pm Reply

      Trust me, it’s not what you did, it’s all part of the damage that is on-going. I am seven years out and I have been suffering from GI problems that resurfaced 6 years after the original episode of a few days after taking CIPRO. I have have symptoms reappear after about ~7 years. I hate to be negative, but once the CIPRO disaster begins, it becomes permanent. You will continue to have exacerbation, intensification, recycling of old symptoms… I have bilateral Achilles tendonitis that I thought was over 2 years ago.

      I believe there is a direct toxicity (it’s minor component of the bigger damage), but I also believe that CIPRO triggers a destructive immune mechanism that no one is investigating. We are too focused on direct injury. I have yet to see a single research paper or even one researcher discuss the possible immune modification Fluoroquinolones may trigger. Look, it is very clear in medicine that certain infection or drugs can trigger chronic and destructive immune disorders. After 7 years of research and speaking with many victims, I am very confident that CIPRO toxicity is chronic, not because of direct toxicity, but rather it triggers the immune system. We have a a disease that is very similar to Lupus, ankylosing spondylitis…the cure is in looking at the immune system. Something to think about, except for immune diseases, NO OTHER known disease mechanism causes recurrent cyclic remissions and exacerbations. The cycles we speak about is our immune system.

      • Anna February 6, 2019 at 8:04 pm Reply

        Thank you for stating the obvious! I mean this, sincerely. So many people think this is a floxing witchcraft without logic, but immune response makes the most sense with most of these issues, hence the come and go of it all, plus random triggering. My Ophthalmologist also confirmed that my eye issue was inflammation , causing blurred vision, secondary to immune response from Cipro. Therefore, any immune trigger or medicine, depending on the individual, could trigger the initial immune response. This is why people go years and feel fine, then one day wake up unable to walk, typical immune.

      • Andrea February 7, 2019 at 6:24 am Reply

        I agree 100%. These drugs trigger something in our immune system, thus we can’t fully recover. I’m more and more sure about it. Otherwise, why so many of us develop food intolerance, for instance?

      • typenu February 21, 2019 at 11:18 pm Reply

        It’s proven that oxidative stress triggers auto immune reactions in cells. The best flox therapy is to reduce ROS as much as possible. It starts with ketogenic diet, fasting over nutrition, supplements and realxing/meditation. I healed myself after an strong crippling acute onset reaction, I am now month 12 and 70% healed.

    • Cipropoisoned February 6, 2019 at 7:41 pm Reply

      By the way, I don’t want to leave you thinking of negative thoughts. Everyone is
      Different. Some people “recover” within months to a couple years. They usually have sub clinical symptoms. My life overall is much, much better. These cycles come and go, but we can still live a normal life.

  13. mok February 5, 2019 at 8:00 am Reply

    can someone send me the books .in our country we dont have the permission to use credit card to buy on internet and i dont have money .please help me this my email

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 5, 2019 at 10:56 am Reply

      Ask Kerri Knox ( the author of the book) ,he’ll probably be glad to give you a few.For free,of course:


  14. Deb February 7, 2019 at 4:26 pm Reply

    Has anyone had to use contrast dye for a medical procedure? I may have to have a procedure to use it, and I’m very concerned. Thanks.


    • Andrea February 7, 2019 at 4:37 pm Reply

      Yes me. I had a cystography a few months ago. Didn’t notice any problem with it.

    • L February 7, 2019 at 4:43 pm Reply

      I had a VQ lung scan which uses radioactive contrast dye. I didn’t want the test but my (OLD) pulmonologist scared me into it. I did fine, and I if you have read any of my posts, I was majorly destroyed by Cipro. And this was during one of the worst stages for me. Of course, we are all different.

      • Deb February 7, 2019 at 4:49 pm Reply

        I know we all can react differently, so we just don’t know until we try something. I am feeling some better and don’t want to get worse. Thanks much Andrea and L! How are you all doing now?

        • L February 7, 2019 at 6:41 pm

          well, after several years and over $40,000 I felt like I could ALMOST return to most of my old life, in spite of having a half dozen likely permanent side effects. Then almost a year ago I got some weird congestion thing..post nasal, throat stuff, then it goes into lungs and I have trouble getting rid of it…up all nights some nights, coughing and choking. Have seen two ENTs, an allergist, two integrative doctors. Rules out most things except MAYBE mast cell disorder (thanks cipro) and I am reluctantly on meds for that, but they help only minimally, so maybe not. It is exhausting. If I could get past THAT, I think I would be ok. I have to now have special light lazer therapy after being diagnosed with macular Degeneration post cipro. Toes still numb. I’m ok with that although foot rubs used to be my favorite. Still get phantom scents, and tinnitus. That seems to be getting louder and that is really hard to deal with.

          But other than that! What do you need the contrast dye for? Is there another way of getting the same info?

        • Andrea February 8, 2019 at 5:33 am

          Hi Deb. I’m doing “good”, the aches and pain in my joints are improving very much, since I give up dairy and sugar, more than a month ago. I still have, from time to time, some low energy/sugar issues, but they’re quite meanagble at the moment. The main problem right now are my GI issues. caused/triggered by some probiotics I took a few weeks ago. And of course my old bladder issues…

        • Deb February 8, 2019 at 5:50 am


          It’s good to hear you are doing good too! I am doing better too, but it is a difficult journey with a lot of ups and downs and hopefully things will smooth out for all of us. I hope your GI and bladder issues resolve soon. We just have to keep plugging away!

    • Barbara Arnold February 7, 2019 at 11:26 pm Reply

      Debs, I have sent a link to Lisa about contrast dyes which were published in “The Pharmacist” I hope she will post it, as it’s all about allergic re actions to the different dyes they use. I got it from ‘facebook floxies’ I am also due to get one and I won’t be using a dye as I don’t want to take the chance. Apparently the dye only helps the technitions to see 10%MORE. Again we are all different and others have had it with no problem.

      • Deb February 8, 2019 at 5:42 am Reply

        Thanks Barbara! So are you getting a heart cath without contrast dye?

        • Barbara Arnold February 8, 2019 at 6:00 am

          No Deb, I’ m getting one for the bladder. I will not have any dye’s. I don’t care what they say.

        • Barbara Arnold February 8, 2019 at 11:41 pm

          Also iodine contrasts have the same dangers.

        • lisalisa12years February 9, 2019 at 7:01 am

          These contrasts have never been good for anyone. Now that we’ve been floxed what are we supposed to do. I try to get ultrasounds instead of the CT scans or MRI. Going for a 2D ultrasound of my heart this week upcoming. Left ventricular function was 55%. I’ve always had a strong heart. I might need a pace maker. At 57 years old because I put to much trust in my Dr. One thing it’s taught me was never to do that again. I research and show absolute proof of what these drugs have done. We need to keep spreading the word and truth about them. No matter what. Saving one person from these toxins is worth all the effort. Have the best day possible..

        • Barbara Arnold February 11, 2019 at 6:58 am

          Thanks Deb xx

      • Lisa February 9, 2019 at 8:20 am Reply

        Hi Deb,

        Here is the link to the article that Barbara referenced –


        My take on it is pretty much the same as what has been noted. Some people seem to do fine with contrast dye, while others have horrific reactions. I don’t know that there’s any way to tell ahead of time what kind of reaction you’re going to have. Personally, I would avoid it if at all possible. That’s just me though.


        • L February 9, 2019 at 10:30 am

          And also, these are reactions for “normal” people that have not been floxed, which makes it all such a huge unknown.

      • Madge Hirsch February 9, 2019 at 5:24 pm Reply

        Hi Barbara – I had a contrast dye I think the last time I had a CT scan . They injected something that made me feel very hot for a few minutes. I was ok afterwards. How is your husband doing? D o you think your floxing has brought on bladder problems?

        • Barbara Arnold February 10, 2019 at 12:03 am

          Hi Madge,
          To answer your questions, first as far as my husband goes, it’s been a nightmare and the worst time if my life. Worse than my flox which I never thought was possible. We are only now seeing a chink of light at the end of the tunnel. They don’t tell you that when therapy is finnished it gets worse before it gets better. I have watched him very carefully. There is a notice above his bed saying no quinolones. He’s been in hospital for a week after passing out twice. Hopefully he should be home on Monday. They tried to give him Nolotil which is a pain killer that is very dangerous to Northern Europeans. Southern Europeans are okay with it. When I told the oncologist it was well documented, her answer…I don’t know all the side effects of everything. Even though this drug is well documented and she uses it all the time. I wonder how many patients she’s damaged ?????
          As for me they found a small bit of blood in my urine after a routine test. I had no symptoms, just lots of bathroom visits during the night. I don’t know if its the stress of everthing I’ve gone through or what. It could be nothing hopefully, as I have no blood in any urine using the bathroom. First they are doing an ultra sound, then a CT, then an MRI. Why I need all three I have no idea. The urologist told me about the contrasts there are two, and I’m going to refuse both. I could be okay with the iodine one but I’m not taking the chance. It’s perfectly possible to do it without any dye, they just have to study it more.
          The stress I have experienced and all the travel I have had to do has caused my lower legs to swell up to over twice their size and my feet and legs burn. I was pretty on top of it before. I have taken Kratom for the pain which has really helped bur I have to limit it or you can become intolerant to it and like any allopathic drug you can get addicted to it if you overuse it. But I’m so glad I’ve had it as I have been in agony. I don’t know why my legs swell up, because after levatating them for some time they will go back to normal. It’s when they are down, even sitting in a chair they swell. I actually came to a stop when visiting the hospital one day as I just couldn’t walk any further the pain was so bad. I havn’t had that for a long time.
          Lastly, my opinion of the medical profession has not changed. I have encountered many arrogant Doc’s Nurses on this journey with a balance of some really good ones. Like the amazing compassionate surgeon that saved my husbands life.
          I have found with the ignorant ones, that if you don’t speak ‘fluent’ Spanish they talk AT you at ninety miles an hour very loudly. They don’t give you a chance to at least try to communicate. Some of them should bever be in the medical profession.
          Hopefully when my husband comes home we can both continue to recouperate. I’ll let you know how I get on without contrast.

        • Deb February 11, 2019 at 5:52 am


          So sorry you and your husband both have been having a hard time. I would think the stress of all this takes its toll. I hope you both are feeling much better soon and your procedure goes well without the contrast dye!

      • Madge Hirsch February 10, 2019 at 5:10 pm Reply

        I’m really sorry Barbara. You have had so much to get through it’ s really hard to have all this ongoing stress. Don’t worry too much about the microscopic blood. I have had that several times in the past and the ultrasound scans have shown nothing wrong. They are just a drag with having to drink all the water first. I bet it could be to do with the floxing. I am lucky in that I have no language problem when I go to hospital but I think it is easier to become fluent in French . I think Spanish is the hardest of the Romance languages because of the accent. But I still have had problems with arrogant doctors! Is the burning a return of the neuropathy? That probably has been brought on by all the stress. Hope your scans go ok. Bon courage

        • Barbara Arnold February 10, 2019 at 11:50 pm

          Aaaaah thankyou for that reasurance Madge. A couple of friends have told me the same thing, so I’m hoping it will be okay. Not sure I could take any more anyway.
          The good news is, hopefully my husband will be home today and he looks much better thank goodness. I think once he can eat by mouth again he will improve even further. Quite a few things he went through were similar to being floxed, same re actions as fluro’s, like chemo are chemo drugs, so I’m not surprised.
          I have found that ‘stress’ plays a big factor in my pain flares. If all is well my pain levels go right down. I was at a stage I could walk for about half an hour with no problem most day’s, and during the night pain in my legs or ankles, achilles or both would stop after a bathroom visit, weird. But during this episode walking a lot more caused agony and massive swelling. Now I am getting less stressed and elevating my legs they are improving. This like all floxie symptoms come and go and change. I have done everything to try and remedy this, but it looks like I am going to have to live with it for life. Ah well beats the alternative I suppose. Thanks again Madge, it helps when you hear this may be okay
          My husbands oncologist is horrible, but he say’s this….”.look we have a desert to cross and we need a camel, so as long as she gets us across the desert who cares” lol.

    • melissam February 8, 2019 at 7:25 am Reply

      I had contrast dye post floxing, no issues.

    • Cipropoisoned February 8, 2019 at 1:32 pm Reply

      Gadolinium used in MRI’s can cause significant neuropathy. If you already have neuropahty because of CIPRO/Levoquin, be very, very careful. Find an alternative imaging technique if possible. This is a warning from the FDA. Don’t forger that the FDA warning is far lighter than it can be. Just think about the Fluoroquinolone warnings and the FDA.


      • L February 8, 2019 at 4:32 pm Reply
        • lisalisa12years February 9, 2019 at 6:50 am

          I need to find out what they use in the CT scans. I’ve had a few and didn’t notice anything drastically change with my neuropathy. I use biotin and B6 daily keeping enough in my system really helps with the burning pain. Not to much with the numbness. Greatful for any type of relief. Mostly worried about my heart now. Unbelievable how bad this poison is able to destroy our bodies from within the deepest part of a humans cell. I certainly hope they’re able to figure out how to stop it. I don’t believe they’ll be able to reverse the damage already done. Just praying for a way to stop it. It’s definitely not a rare or temporary thing. Going into my 13th year and it’s one thing after another. Hits the tendons cartilage nerves and muscles. In that order. We need to protect our hearts. Have the best day possible.

        • L February 9, 2019 at 10:19 am

          IT varies. Often they don’t need to use any contrast dye at all. (That is what I would ask for.) But the other downside is that they are high in radiation. That’s why if you can get the same information from an MRI that would be the way to go.

      • Lisa February 9, 2019 at 8:24 am Reply

        Chuck Norris’s wife had a horrible reaction to gadolinium contrast dye. Here is one (of many – just google it) article about her experience –


  15. Deb February 7, 2019 at 7:39 pm Reply


    I can imagine that a lot of coughing and choking would be VERY exhausting and worrisome. I’m glad you got back to an almost normal life last year and hope the coughing and choking gets better soon and that there is medicine you can take to help a little. You have worked through so many FQ symptoms, so you will probably find a remedy for this too! I was on this site a good bit early on, and I know you have helped a lot of people including me and hope you can find your coughing remedy soon!

    I have my annual cardiologist appointment tomorrow and I’m just trying to prepare in case I need a heart cath. I haven’t been able to take cholesterol medicine since I got the FQ toxicity 1 1/2 years ago.

    • L February 7, 2019 at 8:50 pm Reply

      well you know after the cipro I got pericardial effusion (fluid around the heart). They want you to take nsaids, which I of course could not. And I don’t think they would have even helped. I was taking huge amounts of turmeric and other natural anti-inflammatories, and nothing changed. But I did get “lucky” in one respect. Believe it or not I found an integrative cardiologist! (She is Harvard trained, but from Myanmar, so has a nice east/west balance.) She was the FIRST MD that, when I told her my story (and she could see I was just a quivering, gasping, shell of a person), she just shook her head, and took notes. She believed everything (how refreshing!) and started making recommendations that did NOT involve drugs or surgery. She wanted to take a “wait and see approach,” and scheduled me to come in every 6 months for an echo. (I drive 1 1/2 hours each way to see her, but it’s worth it.) The amount of effusion never grew larger, so we did not do anything with it. (One time when I wasn’t feeling too great and didn’t want to make the drive, I had the echo done at a local hospital. The cardiologist on call got all worked up about the amount of fluid, and he got me freaked out. (He also said he would PERSONALLY send the dvd to her, and of course he didn’t.) Anyhow, I finally sent it to her, and she said it was the same as it had been, and try not to worry and schedule another 6 month appoint. After a few years of this she said chances were pretty good it was permanent. But then when I went back a couple months ago, it had actually gone down some!

      I know she always begins first with dietary changes and exercises. I think she would use drugs only as a last resort. If you are interested, she has a book called “Your Vibrant Heart,” and her name is Dr. Cynthia Thaik.

      • lisalisa12years February 7, 2019 at 9:49 pm Reply

        L , Hey it’s been a long time since I’ve been around. I just read about your heart issue. I believe we were floxed around the same time I was given Levequin in 2007, 750 mg for 10 days. For a simple sinus infection. Just wanted to say I started feeling better the vitamins and minerals along with 3 years of colostrum 3 times daily now 3 times weekly actually help my joints knees and shoulders. I’m having heart issues as well first it was regurgative valves now my left ventricular function was at 55% last year. I quit smoking 5 years ago I instantly blew up with water. I believe that the nicotine was being attacked and when I quit it began attacking me again. Almost 13 years later I’m still fighting the side effects. I don’t believe we ever truly get better. We can only keep it under control by hit and miss options we all share. I have to get a 3D ultra sound of my heart to see what’s going on with the left ventricular. I bought compression pants that really helped me to get rid of the fluid and keep it from building up. I unfortunately had no choice but to take a heart medication prescribed diuretics only take when I start coughing. That’s a sign of fluid build up in my lungs. I drink filtered water day and night and I use the bathroom every constantly. Hard getting a good sleep but better than taking another med. I never would have believed that this could still be happening not only to us, the older Floxie cases but to so many more people. Harmed because of the revolting greed of BIG pharma. It’s heartbreaking. I had a melt down a few days ago. I was on a rant about how horrible this really is. Then thought about how many people didn’t survive this evil mess. Some not even knowing what caused it all. I also wanted to say I had radioactive contrast and didn’t feel any thing go off inside. I just drank a lot of filtered water and flushed it out. Having issues with my teeth breaking also. Being this leeches out every possible nutrient in our bodies before we know what it actually does. Please all newly floxed be sure to get those vitamins and minerals in using subliguals is a cheaper alternative to IV infusion. So much more than I ever thought possible. I tell anyone who will listen to never take these toxic antibiotics called Flouroquonolones. They don’t have ” Rare Side effects ” They will hurt a human body in ways you can’t imagine. It can happen in a day, week month and years later. Treating the symptoms is our only hope. Until they find a way to reverse or hopefully stop it. We are Floxies and sadly most of us will always be. Some have gotten better than it hits again. Some stay better. We are all different and react in different ways. Tried and true definitely magnesium C Biotion & B 6 takes away my neuropathy pain. So so much but to have a few good days and not feel bad it’s a good thing. One day at a time. Praying for all to find whatever it is that helps you. Hit and miss I stick to the aforementioned basics. I’m trying Hi Lyte just started yesterday it’s concentrated electrolyte replacement. I’ll let you know if it helps or not. Be as well as possible.

        • L February 7, 2019 at 9:55 pm

          no actually mine was in 2015. and I believe we do get better. In spite of current issues I am LIGHT YEARS from where I was. I was certain I was going to die (and wanted to for the first year or so.) Nutrient IVs helped me tremendously and prolozone injections fixed my knees. The only real excruciating pain I had was mid back and that went away soon after I started the IVs. Also had horrible pelvic pain that too is now gone.

      • Deb February 8, 2019 at 6:00 am Reply

        Thanks much L. How nice to find a doctor who believes you about the FQ toxicity. I will see if I can find Dr. Thaik’s book. I like the idea of starting with diet and exercise instead of drugs. I am trying to control my cholesterol with diet and exercise, and I’m already thin so my weight doesn’t cause the high cholesterol. It’s so good to hear, even with some lingering symptoms, that you are doing SO much better!

    • Madge Hirsch February 9, 2019 at 5:39 pm Reply

      I would not worry about not taking medicine to presumably reduce your cholesterol. The entire hypothesis of cholesterol causing heart disease is rubbish – bad science promulgated by people like Ancel Keys whose work has been exposed as a fraud and backed by Pharma who are making millions out of poisoning people with statins that are also mitochondrial toxins.

      • Bob February 10, 2019 at 12:57 pm Reply

        Cholesterol drugs are a scam. Your liver makes cholesterol and your body needs it. If you have a fatty liver you might need to eat less fat and protein and less processed food and more fruits and vegetables. . I know people on disability from statin drugs

        • Deb February 11, 2019 at 7:19 am

          Thanks Madge and Bob for taking the time to reply and give encouragement. I hope you all are doing okay!

  16. Daniel February 8, 2019 at 8:43 am Reply

    Bacteriophages from the republic of Georgia are available here.

    Bacteriophages are viruses that kill bacteria (and only bacteria) and are a great alternative to antibiotics.


  17. Dee February 10, 2019 at 7:16 am Reply

    Barbara. I’m so sorry to hear you and your husband have been struggling. I will say a prayer for you to find strength through this and definetly healing in the next few weeks. I’m sure the stress of it all is ramping up your symptoms. I can only imagine it is hard to find peace and calmness while in the middle of a storm. Keep us posted on your MRI and how you are doing. Meanwhile try to take a deep breath and ground yourself. Try to find a small piece of quiet and calm each day. I wish you well and that you and your hubby find healing soon! I will keep you in my prayers. Hugs…..💐💝🙏🏻Dee

    • Barbara Arnold February 10, 2019 at 8:29 am Reply

      Your so kind Dee. Thank you very much.I wish you healing to always xxx

      • Madge Hirsch February 12, 2019 at 2:21 pm Reply

        You are right about stress making the floxing symptoms worse. Also about it not going away. In Dec 2017 I pulled something behind my left knee getting off a motor bike – just standing up on the pedals! I could barely walk for a few days and my husband had to go and buy me a walking stick at the pharmacy. It took 9 months before I could go downstairs not one at a time and then I had to go slowly and grip the bannister. Now the pain has come back and also extends slightly higher up . Picking stuff up off the floor hurts and it’s back to going downstairs one at a time! I have started the wisteria pruning today and have to be really careful not to stretch up too much as that triggers my rotator cuff tendonitis as does sweeping .polishing or any sort of cleaning. At 66 I feel like 86 ! Do let us know how your scans go. Hope your husband is continuing to improve. It must be a relief to both of you to have him home.

  18. Nancy lyon February 10, 2019 at 9:37 am Reply

    I have just purchased these e books and they started loading and then it has disappeared yet I have been charged through PayPal. Where can I find them?

  19. Attsy February 10, 2019 at 1:29 pm Reply

    Hi Guys,
    so went for the cystoscopy and for my surprise I have chronical inflammation of my bladder and got another 30 days course of antibiotics. Then went to gastroenterology and they took my blood, although I was on pretty harsh gluten and lactose free diet (for 6 months) my both IgA results are worse than before. I refused colonoscopy because when I went for EKG (like pre surgery procedure) I saw the results and all my heart values are off so I don’t want to risk deep analgosedation. The doctor wants me to go for gastroscopy and then take something like Prednison.
    I am in very unhappy state. I am pretty sure that this was caused by Ofloxin I took back in June. I am also very scared, I hoped that things would get better but seems it’s getting worse. Well at least the diarrhea stopped.

    • L February 10, 2019 at 1:46 pm Reply

      so sorry to hear all this Attsy. I would not risk a colonoscopy either at this point. I hate that they recommended 30 days of antibiotics. I wish you could find a good integrative MD or an nd that could recommend a different way to go. I also don’t understand why that would be the first choice, since high IgA can indicate inflammation or autoimmune disease. How do antibiotics treat that? And many of us show similar conditions to autoimmune diseases. That is why doctors always assume it CAN’t be the cipro, and must be lupus or Epstein Barr, or chronic fatigue, etc. Do they have other info that your kidneys are compromised?

      Uh, and prednisone on top of it. I have had three doctors now try to treat me with prednisone. Can’t / won’t do it. Are you somewhere where you could get a second opinion from a doctor who is more integrative?

      • Attsy February 11, 2019 at 12:54 pm Reply

        Hi L, thanks for the answer. The antibiotics are for the bladder inflammation and were prescribed by my urologist.
        The gastroenterologist (another and a new doctor) wants me to take corticoids because of my IgA level which is not getting down.
        I wanted to get another opinion from another gastroenterologist but I have a problem now. I am BROKE – completely broke, as I was unable to work for last 6 months I have already spent all my savings. Now I have to go to work although I am extremely tired because I can’t afford to pay my health insurance by myself anymore (now my employer is doing it).
        Here if you want to visit a specialist you need to have a recommendation from your GP (if it’s paid from your insurance), my GP refused to give me anymore recommendations because she can’t understand why I have problems with the doctors. It’s possible to get a new specialist (without recommendation) but it’s very expensive – you literally pay everything by your own and even many of them still want the recommendation.
        Another problem is that I tried to suggest to the new gastroenterologist that maybe ofloxin could cause this, but he told me “it is not possible, I have never heard of it”, so then I rather kept my mouth shut. According to the reviews on the internet, it seemed this doctor could be more open, but unfortunately he is not. And that’s why I again don’t trust him, although his behavior was completely neutral and professional.

        • L February 11, 2019 at 11:55 pm

          oh god, I know. I have spent $40,000 I didn’t have between over a 100 IVs, NDs, acupuncture, supplements, other treatments. (but the toxic and the ignorant doctor—yeah, insurance covered that!) And they are all so enamored of steroids!!! Steroids destroy stuff.
          Didn’t know they gave antibiotics for inflammation. The inflammation is probably from the flq. (oh, and the “It’s not possible I have never heard of that,” is ridiculous. BEcause HE never heard of it, it couldn’t possibly happen. more arrogance.

  20. Anna February 11, 2019 at 9:31 am Reply

    I really hoped to find posts and comments related to Botox. But, the keyword search on this site never works for me any longer. Anyone else have issues with the keyword search on this site?

    • Attsy February 11, 2019 at 12:56 pm Reply

      Hi Anna, I have the same problem, I either don’t understand how to do it or it’s not working….

      • Anna February 12, 2019 at 6:58 am Reply

        Thanks, Attsy! I am using the Key search in the upper right corner of the Floxie main page. I also tried Control-Find on our main page to search for common words. Neither works for me, so there must be something wrong with the site. Not sure. Glad to know it isn’t just me! 😉

    • j February 15, 2019 at 10:40 am Reply

      Hi Anna, I have botox and have never had any issues with it but each person is different

      • Anna February 15, 2019 at 10:46 am Reply

        Thanks, J. Nice to hear how others have handled it after floxing. I also handle alcohol and coffee like a champ, and other people seem to not be able to deal with that. Odd that we all have somewhat different triggers.

      • Anna May 3, 2019 at 3:48 am Reply

        Hi J, I tried the botox a month ago, I had no negative side effects and tolerated it well. Thanks for your post.

  21. Andrea February 11, 2019 at 4:29 pm Reply

    Henk, I’m answering you here, about the EM-X. Very very interesting. Thnaks a lot. Did you use it? What do you think about this product? check the ingredients. Thnaks a lot.

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 12, 2019 at 5:14 am Reply

      Hi Andrea,I gave EM-X a try but failed to get the ferment process starting.A friend of mine tried it,but not for consumption but for his garden.His batch fermented very well.I think I gave up too soon on the fermenting but at the time I was very sick from the AB’s,still doing my daily job at the archeology,and had spend hundreds of Euro’s on pré- and probiotics,natural anti-Candida remedies and other miracle cures.

      The EM-X was the last thing I wanted to try,but in the meantime I had built the Beck Blood Purifier and the Magnetic pulser,and within 2 weeks my guts were “normal”,and I threw out the EM-X.Might have tried it with an other batch but I was very depressed (just lost my favorite brother;he had blood cancer) and could hardly keep up my archeaology job and my housekeeping and the extra care my food needed.And I was physically,mentally and financially broke.

      I’ve read quite a few good things about Primal Defence (this Ultra wasn’t there,at the time),but most of it was mainly promotional.A few good reviews on forums,too.But at that time I couldn’t find it here.So;I cannot give you a review out of own experience.It is about as expensive as the course you started,but stopped after 3 days.Some strays,like the Saccharomyces Boulardii,are the same in both.Main difference: The Primal Defence is used over a prolonged time while the course,starting with the Enterelle is supposed to be used once,over 36 days,with three different “recipies” (compositions).

  22. melissam February 12, 2019 at 9:28 am Reply

    Unrelated to floxing (likely related to two accidents I’ve had), I have had a 24/7 headache for a year that doesn’t feel like a traditional headache. It encompasses my face, back of head, neck, side of head, etc. I often feel every nerve in my face and head. And for those who followed my painful tooth saga, the tooth STILL HURTS but they believe it isn’t an infection anymore, but the nerves. They are saying it’s atypical trigeminal neuralgia, atypical facial pain, atypical neuralgia…all sorts of “atypical” things that I hear as “We don’t really know what you have but we know it hurts…”.

    I’ve tried everything natural: naturopath, acupuncture, osteo, physio, etc. I recently started with a chiro and homeopth, but every single doc (neurologist, dentist, etc.) would really like for me to try low-dose antidepressants to cut the pain, and then wean off. Is this a bad idea post-floxed? There has to be others out there who are floxed and on much higher doses? Is it possible to be on them for say, a year, and then get off successfully before my body has too much of a chance to attach to them? 25mg or less of Nortriptyline? I’m still healing from being floxed and don’t want to mess anything up, but I also don’t want to be in pain if this could help.

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 12, 2019 at 10:47 am Reply

      Melissan,treating tooth pain with antidepressiva? That’s the most absurd thing I ever heard!

      Another reason to avoid antidepressiva is the fact that many of them,for instance the widely used Paroxitin (Paxil) have fluoride:


      I think that I have the same problem,since about 15 years,but,most of the time not as severe as it was,back then,and as it is in your case.It think it’s caused by dirt and bacteria (among other microbes),causing an infection.My problems were caused by a severe magnesium defficiency (Thanx,Losec/Omeprazole,for 15 years!),but,of course,the dentist and his assistence put the blaim on the patient,me.They don’t know about the importance of magnesium for healthy teeth and gums,at all.

      This colony of bacteria lives on food that enters the tooth pockets because the binding between teeth and gums is,for reasons like mag.defficiency,damaged/destroyed.Then,this infection puts pressure on the nerves.Same thing happens to me,all the time:when I pay extra attention on cleaning my teeth and gums,the binding restores,closing the pockets.The unpleasant,sometimes really nasty taste (and smell)disappear,and 1 or 2 days later I get a severe headache,in which my jaw,and neck,shoulder,and the right side of my face/head are involved.Sometimes I even get a small temperature rise,but no real fever.

      The only painkiller I use is Paracetamole,and this,most of the time helps to keep the pain acceptable.But the only thing that “helps”,in the end,is brushing my teeth only just enough to clean the teeth itself,not the gums.Than,the infection finds it’s way to the outside,the nasty taste returns,sometimes my sweat and even my urine get a nasty smell,and the pain,headache,shivers,vanish in a remarkably short while.

      I’ve asked my dentist to remove that tooth,several times but he refused it and sent me to his assistent for a throughout cleaning. I tried that several times but every time with the same result,as described above.After I asked him for a new tooth protese (upper side;caused by the Losec/magnesium deficiency),because the old one (my first one) was totaly worn out after 10 years,and didn’t fit anymore,he tried to talk me out of that.Then I didn’t go there for controls for 3 years after which he wrote me a letter,informing me that from that moment on he refused to have me as a patient anymore (I wasn’t lucrative for him).This action was based on his “house rules”,which I new nothing about,nor had I ever seen those,or got a copy.So,now I don’t have a dentist,and here a new dentist,or doctor,is very hard to find.The Netherlands,twenty-first century,science based medicine.

      So,I cannot help you now,although I keep on searching for a solution. Taking antidepressiva isn’t a solution;it’s just asking for more problems and the doc’s that give you that absurd advise are best to be avoided.Even let that tooth be removed might not solve the broplem because the dirt/infected tissue might,for a part,stay behind and,as soon as the wound is healed,cause even bigger trouble.You and I will need very good and professional help for this problem to be solved.I hope we will find a suitable solution,soon.

      • melissam February 12, 2019 at 11:03 am Reply

        Henk, thank you for your helpful insight.

        I have head and neck and face pain (nerves, etc.) that are unrelated to the tooth though, and started one year ago. I was hit very hard in the back of the head/neck with a soccer ball at close proximity, and a year prior had bad whiplash from a car accident. That pain is different than my recent tooth pain, though because all of my x-rays and tests look clean, they want to lump in my tooth pain with the neuralgia. It COULD be possible that the tooth pain is not tooth pain, but nerve pain coming from my face. That is possible. But even if it’s not, what do I do with this 24/7 worsening head and neck and face pain? Therein lies the rub. And that is the reason for the low-dose antidepressants. Do we know if Avantyl has fluoride in it?

        I will say this: I feel in my heart of hearts that my tooth pain is bacteria caused too, because two years ago it happened, and antibiotics fixed it. And while I was on antibiotics for the 3 days two weeks ago, the pain was almost gone, but I couldn’t tolerate the antibiotics and got off of them and the pain returned. So my question to you is, do you go on antibiotics when that pain starts for you? And if not, how long does the pain take to go away all on its own and do you do anything special for it to go? I really feel like i’m dealing with two separate issues: the tooth pain and the head/neck/face.

        • L February 12, 2019 at 12:13 pm

          Something else you might want to investigate…PRP injection (platelet rich plasma). I know they have been used for knee pain, hip pain, so I imagine they might also be used in the neck area.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 12, 2019 at 12:50 pm

          Melissam,Aventyl has a quite nasty set of adverse reactions,but,as far as I can find,has no Fluorid:


          I think that the whiplash,followed by the ball-accident might be the main cause,but I don’t see how Aventyl,or any other antidepressivant might help here,and the adverse reactions could make things even worse.

          Is the trigeminal neuralgia diagnose confirmed by a second opinion? It sounds logical,after the whiplash and ball accident,but taking any (synthetic) medication on base of a “suspected ” trauma or illness isn’t a wise thing to do.

          I have a hernia in my lower back,with pain,sometimes in my left,other times in my right leg,and I discovered the best way to get rid of the pain,for a while,is,to use Paracetamol for a few days to lower the pain,and move as much as possible (ride my bike works well).Because the pain is on a lower level,my muscles relax,and,together with the movements,the oppressed nerve comes loose,and the pain resides for a while (several months,most of the time.

          Something like that might be the reason of your pain (or,maybe,you have a neck hernia;somebody I know got one and had to stop working;got almost crazy from the headache and pains in a big part of his upper body).Lowering the pain is essential for relaxing the muscles because the pain cramps the muscles which,then,keep the oppressed nerve from getting free/loose from the oppression between the dorsal vertebas.

          When a nerve is oppressed the pain can covver a big area of the body;a lower back hernia gives pain in the back,the buttock,the upper- and lower leg.Sometimes the pain in the buttock and the leg is worse than the backpain,confusing,because the cause is in the back.The toothpain might well be connected to the head-,neck- and backpain in a way most people,medics,included,wouldn’t think of.

        • L February 12, 2019 at 1:49 pm

          I would be very wary of using wikipediea for a reference. They are written by virtually anyone, so this could very well be written by the drug manufacturer. (I know when I was doing a masters thesis we were forbidden from using the site as a source)

      • melissam February 12, 2019 at 1:02 pm Reply

        Ugh. Thanks Henk. I am happy for no fluoride but not happy for the nasty side effects. They are telling me the dose would be so lose that I could very well escape those side effects…and I could always get off…I just don’t know. I can’t take anything orally that stops the pain at all, nothing. I agree, I need to stop the pain to allow everything to calm down and relax the muscles…the pain is snowballing into more pain.

        I have had spine MRIs. I have a bulging disc in my neck, but not herniated.

        No, I have not had a firm diagnosis of trigeminal neuralgia. It is the dentists that believe that’s what it is (three dentists and an endodondist). I’m on a waiting list to talk to a facial nerve expert.

        I was officially diagnosed with atypical facial pain. I feel tingly and numbness and burning in my neck, scalp and face all day long, but some days it is so bad. Frustrated. Thank you for weighing in with your knowledge!

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 13, 2019 at 4:46 am

          I am so sorry to hear about your pain,Melissa,and I would wish to be able to help you more!

          On,what I read and regarding the low dose I think you might give Aventyl a try.And ask if it is safe to combine the Aventyl with Paracetamol,or,even better,with CBD oil.The CBD oil is 100% safe,works very well for a lot of people and,as far as I know there’s no risk of any interaction with other medicines.

          Try to find CBD-oil with a high CBD-content,15% or more;most CBD-oil (2,75-3 %) is useless,and very overpriced (it’s a hype,at the moment,with hype-prices :-((

        • melissam February 13, 2019 at 4:14 pm

          Henk, thank you for your kind and thoughtful words. Thank you for taking the time to look it up for me. That means a lot, and I feel less scared to at least try, I’m going to give myself the month on the homeopathy first.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 14, 2019 at 3:11 am

          You’re welcome,Melissam,and I think that’s a wise descision.You might consider to try CBD oil,in the meantime,to ease the pain and it will probably help you to relax a bit,as well,while you’re using the homeopathic’s.

    • L February 12, 2019 at 12:04 pm Reply

      Personally, I would not go on antidepressants. I say this as someone who was on them for decades. They have their own set of side effects. (I am surprised this was suggested for pain also, especially since a common side effect is headaches!.) Have you tried cannabinoids?

      • melissam February 12, 2019 at 12:15 pm Reply

        Yes, I hear you. Low-dose antidepressants is very common for help treating this type of pain where it relates to nerves and such. The idea is for me not to be on it forever (hopefully), but to go on, forcing a reset and healing, and then get off. I don’t think that cannabis oil would have the same effect. I need to cut the pain signals, and then get off. Do you think that being on them would interfere with the floxing?

        Also I am currently trying something homeopathic for this. I have no clue if it will work, but the homeopath/naturopath felt very confident…we will see….I still am not convinced my tooth pain is related, but I just want one of my many pains to pass!

        • L February 12, 2019 at 1:47 pm

          well, as Henk pointed out many of them contain fluoride so at the very least I would rule those out

      • melissam February 12, 2019 at 2:39 pm Reply

        Yes, you are right L. That is for sure.

  23. Dee February 12, 2019 at 11:35 am Reply

    Melissa, sorry to hear you are dealing with pain in your head, neck, face area I hope you can maybe find a more natural pain reliever to help you?? I know you have tough decisions to make about treatment but I would try to avoid taking an anti depressant and get more opinions?? You said you had a relapse from taking the antibiotics. Are you doing better now? Have most of your increased symptoms calmed down again? I hope so!!! Keep hanging in there. Prayers for your healing!

    • melissam February 12, 2019 at 12:03 pm Reply

      I don’t think you can combat trigeminal neuralgia naturally :(. I think these low-dose antidepressants are in my future :(. I’ve been fighting it all year, trying everything natural, but it’s getting worse and not better. It’s not just the trigeminal nerve, but my entire face goes numb, etc. I’ve had so many scans and tests done at this point to rule out other things (MS, etc.). I’m with you Dee, but I’m stuck between a rock and hard place. I’ve had too many doctors tell me that if I don’t cut the pain, my brain will keep registering pain…it is a neverending cycle.

      As for the relapse on antibiotics, it is not gone but much better. I’m still worse than I was, but very manageable and I am able to care for my 4 young ones and the household while my husband is away, no issues.

      I’ve had so many opinions now. There isn’t a doctor that will treat a-typical facial pain or trigeminal neuralgia with anything but low-dose antidepressants (or Lyrica…). It’s very typical. I have a friend who was able to go on and then a year and a half later, come off of it and his pain stayed away. I guess that is the hope, but I don’t want to cause new issues for myself. Believe me, I’ve been fighting this for a year! It’s just at what point do you say, I have explored all options, and now I need the meds? That’s where I’m at.

      • Attsy February 12, 2019 at 12:19 pm Reply

        Hi Melissam, I have also trigeminal neuralgia and tooth pain which is starting to get worse, so I hoped to find something which might help.
        I was also offered antiepileptic pills but I refuse to take them (same as with antidepressants). I don’t know but I can’t recommend antidepressants especially when you are floxed.
        Now I try some collagen laser and I was offered botox. Unfortunately laser doesn’t seem to help me.
        Wish your pain would get better or you find some good solution. I understand, this is hell :/.

        • melissam February 12, 2019 at 12:25 pm

          oh Attsy :(.
          Which tooth is giving you problems? Mine is back left, at the bottom.

          How long ago were you diagnosed with TN? Is it one cheek or both? I have pain on all three branches of both cheeks, but primarily on one cheek.

          There must be so many floxed people on antidepressants, no? Does one interact with the other? I know we are both so reticent to take any new pharmaceuticals, but I’m trying to think it all through now.

        • Attsy February 12, 2019 at 1:04 pm

          It has been now over three months (but pain is since September 2018), I don’t know to which incident I could connect this – to my botched wisdom tooh job or to being floxed?
          Pain is in my left side, upper jaw, the last tooth, it’s like sharp shooting pain spreading from cheek to nose, ear, bottom jaw, causing other teeth on the left side to hurt and also gives me headache. Sometimes it’s mild but sometimes is really bad.
          I guess they are, but I took antidepressants for many years for IBS and it played badly with my stomach. I have now really bad stomach issues after being floxed so I don’t want to risk antidepressants. But maybe the pain will drive me crazy one day and I will take them – guess I never now, but I try to avoid them now.
          Anyway I am very sorry for you :(. Do you know if the antidepressants really work for this kind of pain – I mean do you know someone who took them and it helped?

        • melissam February 12, 2019 at 1:10 pm

          I’m so sorry Attsy! Yes, they are all saying the low-dose antidepressants would help for this. I just talked to my dentist who’s friend is on them for trigeminal neuralgia.

          I just pray it all goes away and we don’t have to deal with it. If this homeopath fixes me naturally, i’ll give you his number! lol. I am hopeful but realistic??

      • Deb February 12, 2019 at 12:44 pm Reply

        Hi Melissa,

        I am sorry too for your pain especially with four young children. I would avoid anti-depressants if at all possible. But I know you are in a tough place. I have heard cannabis oil is good for pain, but I haven’t tried it. I took a very low dose amitriptyline for a few months several years ago and it helped the pain and I had no side effects. It didn’t solve my problem though. But I have no idea how it would be to take it after being floxed. Hope you find something that works and feel better soon!


        • melissam February 12, 2019 at 12:51 pm

          Thank you Deb! So your pain was not helped by going on the low dose antidepressants :(. I mean, I guess it was helped while on it, but not when off. If that happens I don’t know what I’ll do.

          My timeline is:
          – Car accident January 2016.
          – First floxing July 2016. Did not know what was happening, and it was horrible. Healed after 5-6 months.
          – Soccer ball hitting back of my head which caused a lot of issues: August 2017.
          – Head pain and subsequent face pain: February 2018.
          – Second floxing: May 2018 (actually because they thought my headaches were caused by sinus infection).

          So there you go! This is the reason I don’t think that the floxing was the cause, though i did have a lot of scalp and face nerve pain post second floxing that came around last summer and left after a bit, and came around again after the amoxicillin reaction a couple of weeks ago. THAT part may be the floxing (actually hoping that is what it is so that I have a good shot of it leaving again).

          I’m praying this homeopathic stuff will work and that will be the end of that! And the Kraton I’ll have to look up.

  24. Dee February 12, 2019 at 12:44 pm Reply

    Melissa. Was this pain brought on by the floxing last year or the soccer ball/whiplash incidents??? I am glad your floxie symptoms are calming down again! That is one silver lining in all of this!! I know Barbara says a lot of good things about Kratom for pain. Don’t know if I spelled that right?? You might ask her about using that????

  25. Dee February 12, 2019 at 2:04 pm Reply

    Melissa. What homeopathic remedies are you on?? I do a lot of homeopathic remedies since being floxed for my symptoms!

    • melissam February 12, 2019 at 2:14 pm Reply

      oh nice! I don’t know what this stuff is, but here are the names:
      – Aconit D4 – Cedron D4 – Colocynthis D6 – Kalmia D3 – Verbascum D2
      – Colocynthis 5CH
      – Rhus Tox 15CH
      – Chamomilla CH
      – Aconit 15CH

      Let’s hope this all works 🙂

      What are your symptoms Dee? When were you floxed?

  26. Dee February 12, 2019 at 2:40 pm Reply

    Melissa , I don’t recognize any of those remedies except for Rhus Tox. I got floxed in June of 2017. I am about 19 months out with about 4 lingering symptoms. Early wakeup, mild anxiety, pulsating tinnitus and several bathroom visits (loose) all taking place early morning when I wake up! My system ramps up in the morning! My days are pretty good though. I had at least 20 symptoms for the first several months. I was hit pretty hard as I couldn’t go back to work. I am 62 so I retired last January 18. I was a PE teacher for 38 years!! This floxing turned me upside down!! I’m probably about 85% recovered?? My homeopathic remedies I think are different then yours?? I am on Q doses which increase every 10 days. Been on remedies for year in a half. I work with Mr Mueller over the phone who has treated many floxies world wide. I even take homeopathic cipro (which sounds scary) but is suppose to help stop the cipro effects over time?? I’m on 6 different remedies. Hard to know how they are helping but I’m improving and older so I’m hoping they have been helping me!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻

    • melissam February 12, 2019 at 3:41 pm Reply

      Wow Dee! This is so interesting. I didn’t know any of that (homeopathic cipro???? yowza!). I agree, it sounds like you are doing so well. I was healing nicely too after the second floxing, until antibiotics 2x and reactions to both, but I’m getting back there. I’m sure i’ll be fine. I just need to figure out this head/face/tooth business. I pray I can get passed this pain.

      I will keep this homeopath you talk to in mind…didn’t know there was someone who has helped many floxies like that. Very cool.

      • Dee Gilmore February 12, 2019 at 3:46 pm Reply

        Yes. My homeopath actually created the homeopathic cipro. It is my understanding that his treatment methods are somewhat unique compared to other homeopaths!! You will get better soon especially if it flared up from the recent antibiotics! We will get there!!! One step and one day at a time!!!

        Sent from my iPhone


  27. ursula February 14, 2019 at 3:57 am Reply

    Lisa, what info do you have on Biltricide (Praziquantel ) for bilharzia.

  28. ursula February 14, 2019 at 3:59 am Reply

    Any Pharmacists on here I can ask about Biltricide (Praziquantel)

    • Dee February 15, 2019 at 8:47 am Reply

      Melissa, how are you doing?? Are your symptoms getting better and improving?? I hope so!!!🙏🏻🙏🏻

  29. melissam February 17, 2019 at 12:45 pm Reply

    Dee, you are so kind to check on me! I started the homeopathic stuff one week ago today so too early to tell. On Tuesday I felt my nerve issues worsening (like, vibrating skin, nerves in my body feeling numb like a mask on my arms and legs and spine and head…). I don’t know what’s from Quinolones, what is from my accident, what is just something that is happening to me…it’s all running into one another.

    I feel the panic feeling is totally gone. I feel happy and have more energy since the relapse. And that is great news since the relapse was just a few weeks ago! I got back on my bike. yay!

    I hate that I bend over and my spine starts tingling. I’m not quite sure if that is normal quinolone stuff that takes longer to heal I hate that I’m having this tooth pain that is really my trigeminal nerve. So overall, doing very well and moving around as usual, but moving around with constant issues/pain that I didn’t have before.

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 17, 2019 at 3:27 pm Reply

      Melissa,homeopathy,most of the time,works that way.I don’t have much experience in it (I’m one of the personds in whom it doesn’t seem to work),but as far as I know,in the beginning things seem to get worse,and,as soon as your body starts to re-act,the improvement sets in.I hope it will do you good! Keep us informed,please.

      • melissam February 17, 2019 at 6:39 pm Reply

        A friend just tole me the same. I pray that is all it is: getting worsening sensations before they subside…that would be very worth it.
        I wish it had worked for you :(.

  30. L February 17, 2019 at 3:22 pm Reply

    I just saw a commercial for this device and thought I would post for those of you dealing with pain issues. I know NOTHING about this or if it works, but I just wanted to pass it along, since it does not involve pharmaceuticals. https://www.quellrelief.com/

    • Henk Noordhuizen February 17, 2019 at 3:46 pm Reply

      The Quell is a TENS device,and an expensive one.What wonders me is,that they don’t mention the fact that it is a TENS unit,or might it be because you can find good decvices for way less money? Take a look here for an impression of what a reasonably good unit costs:


      TENS might indeed be something,worth trying.

      • L February 17, 2019 at 4:06 pm Reply

        Like I said, I know nothing about it, and just wanted to throw it out there for anyone who cares to investigate

  31. Dee February 17, 2019 at 7:44 pm Reply

    Melissa. Glad you are doing somewhat better!! That is a good thing!! I think you will recover and heal back to your pre antibiotic days in more time!! Try to ham in there and think positive!! You will get there!! I have taken 5-6 homeopathic remedies everyday since being floxed 19 months ago. I have not experienced getting worse from them and then better except for my worsening flox symptoms over the first few months of being floxed. So I would think you should improve rather then get worse since you have mostly recovered??? Keep the faith and stay the course in your healing!! You will see better days again!!

    • melissam February 18, 2019 at 4:24 pm Reply

      Thanks Dee! Your experience helps. I don’t know what is normal and what is not with this floxing business. This is my second floxing and in some ways it is very different than the first. Ugh. Yes to better days ahead!

  32. cipropoisoned February 18, 2019 at 6:13 pm Reply

    I hope this helps someone. I was discussing CIPRO with someone a while ago and she said she had many symptoms that may be due to CIPRO. She had no idea she had been on CIPRO, but she did recall having multiple urinary infections that were treated with antibiotics. To make a long story short, after reviewing her medical records, she was given CIPRO multiple times. After reviewing her records, she noticed that each time she received CIPRO she developed depression, anxiety, joint pains, etc. Of course, no one knew what was wrong with her, so she was given all kinds of diagnosis. Eventually, she ended seeing a Rheumatologist who diagnosed her pains to be due to Lupus—no lab tests indicated Lupus.

    Nonetheless, by the time I saw her, she was back to “normal”. I asked her what helped her. She said the Rheumatologist put her on 2 weeks of Steroids and her symptoms improved during the treatment. As soon as the steroids were stopped, the symptoms recurred. So, she was put back on the steroids for the next six months, divided daily doses. And I quote her, she noticed “very significant decrease in symptoms”. Because of the daily steroids, she was placed on Rituxan for nine months and noticed “major (she underlined the major) improvement and then the steroid was tapered off”. Now, she is off of steroids and Rituxan and she believes she is back to her normal health.

    Do you know anyone who was mistakenly or even intentionally treated with steroids and a medication like Rituxan? I am searching to see if immunosuppression may be a short-term solution.

    • L February 18, 2019 at 6:48 pm Reply

      I think she is very lucky because steroids are incredibly risky. I would avoid ALL steroids forever.

    • Anna February 18, 2019 at 7:31 pm Reply

      Totally believe this, because I think Fleuroquinolones cause auto- immune disorders. People in this forum swear steroids cause more damage to those floxed, and because of that I will be cautious to take them. However, my Ophthalmologist also confirmed my reaction was due to inflammation from an auto-immune response to Cipro.

      • cipropoisoned February 19, 2019 at 12:35 pm Reply

        People don’t seem to understand the difference between short-term and long-term use of steroids. Yes, steroids can cause tendon and bone damage if used for extended periods of time, but short-term use can be more beneficial to stop inflammatory damage than the possible damage caused by steroids. it’s all risk versus benefits. People have committed suicide because of being floxed. I would say it would have been better they tried the steroid until they improved a bit than to commit suicide.

        • L February 19, 2019 at 12:55 pm

          If I was given a steroid, I likely would commit suicide. Steroids destroy everything around them. Better to use other ways of bringing down inflammation. Like flqs, they can eat away everything in their path. Here is a good article on it. IN the long run they are a ad idea. http://jonburras.com/pdfs/CORTISONE.pdf

        • Anna February 19, 2019 at 2:40 pm

          I’ve been told by people who have taken short courses of steroids, or simply got a one-time injection, that it caused them horrific anxiety, heart palpitations and weight gain. The Ophthalmologist told me that she advised me to keep a swollen eye, instead of take the steroid. She said, “If I were you, I would keep a swollen eye, instead of get more complications from steroids. Steroids cause a whole host of issues.” I wonder if odd auto immune inflammation ever subsides on its own. I also wonder if leaving inflammation in a muscle, specifically an eye muscle, can cause it to become scarred and fibrous. No one seems to know, not even the professionals. So , I am just trying to wait it out.

    • melissam February 21, 2019 at 7:55 pm Reply

      This is actually quite encouraging to me. I have an acoustic neuroma (benign brain tumor) that hasn’t grown in 2 years, but when it does (they say in my lifetime it will), i will need brain surgery and steroids following that for approx. a month to keep brain swelling down. And given the fact that I relapsed on a Cephalosporins antibiotic AND Amoxicillin, it is on my mind of how I’d deal with being put under, such a big surgery (8-10 hour surgery), and steroids following. Ouf. I’m not there yet, and maybe won’t be for a long while, but I do like hearing that it is possible to go on steroids for a time and then get off and not have huge lasting effects. I have heard that being on them is no fun (anxiety, heart beating fast, hungry, etc.), but that you go back to normal once off….
      so thanks for posting this!

  33. Andrea February 20, 2019 at 6:25 am Reply

    Hi guys. Today I went to see a doctor. She’s a specialist in pain menagement, or algiatry.
    This was the first time when I really felt like this doctor was really interested in my case. Not only she let talk for at least 2 hours, and also asking a lot of questions. But, she really tried to understand the roots of my problems and also the psycological effects that this situation caused me. Anyway, I went to her, to see if she could find some way to ease the pain in my bladder/groin area. She prescribed to me Normast (micronized PEA), wich I already took, without any results, but this time she specifically pointed out the importance to take it sublingually. According to the studies, capsules or tablets, with this supplemet, don’t work. She also prescribed Clonazepam, to try to relax the muscles in my bladder. I know many of you would freak out just thinking about taking a benzo, as I am, but do any of you have any info about it? It’s really important for me, to listen to your opinion.
    I explained to her, that I’m really scared to take anyhting chemical, and she understood that.
    She prescribed this particular drug, because, accroding to her, it’s the best tollerated and with the least side effects.
    Please don’t be afraid to answer. Thank you guys.

    • L February 20, 2019 at 9:17 am Reply

      First, so glad you found someone who listened and seemed to care. I understand your concern over clonazepam. I know that benzos are not good generally for floxies. However, I think the harm comes from long term use or high doses. Again, we are all different, and react differently to types of drugs, but I took Xanax, which is similar, twice since being floxed. One, when I was having the awful breathing issue AND had to have dental work. I would not have even contemplated sitting in that chair without it. Second, to fly. I have used to it fly for decades because of claustrophobia. Now the difference in both these cases is that I was only on the pills for that one day. But I had no issue with it.

      • Andrea February 20, 2019 at 9:27 am Reply

        Thanks L.
        Another concern is that benzos are very addicitve. I understand using it from time to time, like in your case, for flying. But in my case I should use it, even if in very small omounts (5 drops) regulary. That’s not too appealing to me…

        • L February 20, 2019 at 10:16 am

          Yeah, that would be my main concern as well. You could try it to see if it helped. But, if you stopped and the pain came back, would you then be compelled to keep taking it? Tough choice.

        • Andrea February 21, 2019 at 6:55 am

          That’s a though decision isn’t it? But you know, lately I’m doing “quite good” (touching wood), as I’m able to sleep a few hours at night and the pain in my ankles is accetable, so I think I’m not going to take anything righ now…

        • L February 21, 2019 at 10:29 am

          That is good. Hope the improvement continues. Once I started sleeping better, it just continued on and on, with only occasional insomnia.

  34. Andrea February 21, 2019 at 7:01 am Reply

    Oh another thing, lately I was avoiding any kind of dairy, and it was just wonderful for my joint pain. I’m also taking a couple of teaspoons of organic tamarind paste and 2-4 brazil nuts everyday (both these foods are known to detoxify your body from fluoride). I don’t know if it’s just a coincidence, but after a couple of weeks of this “regimen” I’m feeling better afterall. I suggest anyone to try it, it’s defenetly healhty and risk free 🙂

    • L February 21, 2019 at 10:31 am Reply

      Tamarind paste is not readily available here. I remember looking for it—but I have been doing the two -brazil-nuts-a-day for a few years now. I heard about their ability to detox fluoride very early on. Nice to get something naturally and not from supplements

    • Mike Wallbridge February 22, 2019 at 11:14 am Reply

      Andrea, I was floxed in mid-September last year but for the last few months, under the guidance of a herbalist, having been eating a healthy detox breakfast that includes brazil nuts (3 per day), tamarind paste (10g) and a kelp tablet, all of which help rid the body of fluorine. I’m just back from two weeks in hospital where I wasn’t allowed to have my normal daily dosage of magnesium but, amazingly, didn’t experience any flox symptoms. Could it be that these simple remedies have cleansed my body of Cipro and its side-effects or is that too much to ask, I wonder.

      • Andrea February 22, 2019 at 3:25 pm Reply

        Hi Mike. I really doubt that these remedies have “cleansed” your body of Cipro. Cipro went away after a few days you’ve ingested it. The side effects will last, probably, forever. This doesn’t mean you can’t improve, as you’re improving right now.
        Like I wrote in the previous post, eating these 2 foods seems to help, but who konws…Anyway I will continue to do so.

        • lisalisa12years February 23, 2019 at 4:04 am

          Anything that helps you to feel better is great. After almost 13 years and thousands of dollars in the next thing to try. I take vitamins and minerals subliguals. I don’t use dairy. Almond milk is great. Bon dairy creamers. I stopped coffee for a few years. Just have 3 cups a week if that. I’ve been using colostrum for three years. Which takes away my shoulder and knee pain. We are all different and need to find what works for each of us the best. There’s no much awesome information here. The basics are the main things avoid Flouride and unfiltered water. Chlorine remember we absorb through our skin. Use gloves when using laundry or dish soap. It’s the little things we tend to forget. Yet these can be what’s causing the reactions ? All different yet all trying to heal as much as possible. Health to you all.

      • Jo Anne March 8, 2019 at 9:53 pm Reply

        Which brand kelp tablet?

  35. melissam February 22, 2019 at 12:58 pm Reply

    Me again with a new question! If you remember, I have this facial nerve/neck/head pain and weirdness (may be unrelated to fluoroquionlones, but also had a car accident in 2016 and a soccer ball to the back of the head and neck in 2017). I have had this pain 24/7 since last february. To remind: 1st floxing was July 2016. Second floxing was May 2018.

    I had asked you all to weigh in on low-dose antidepressants to try for a very short time to see if it helps cut the pain. But today I saw a facial nerve specialist who said rather than the low-dose antidepressants, to try a muscle relaxant: Flexeril (cyclobenzaprine). Obviously I don’t want to cause more damage to myself. It is not a benzo, but I wonder if it works similarly? I’m trying to read but don’t understand everything.

    Any thoughts? 10mg but I can’t tell how many times a day from the scribbled prescription ;). Probably only for a few weeks and with physio.

    I have tried allllll things natural / osteo/ acupuncture / chiro / naturopath, and now am working with a homeopath.

    • Andrea February 22, 2019 at 3:31 pm Reply

      Hi melissam, after the visit with the pain menagement specialist, I’ve read quite a bit about the use of benzodiazepines/muscle relaxants for treating some types of chronic pain. Who knows, maybe it could help, but right now, I don’t want to push my luck, so I’m not going to take anything, expecially benzos or any other kind of drug that interfere with the nervous system. Sorry to not being able to help you more, but that’s just my opinion.

      • lisalisa12years February 23, 2019 at 3:53 am Reply

        Flexeril is a non narcotic. It a muscle relaxant. I have used this before being floxed and after. It didn’t seem to cause any flare ups with me. I was already five years in before knowing I was floxed back in 2007. There wasn’t much on the web. If it’s a pulled muscle and really hurts that much, I would take a chance. Flexeril will help relieve the tension in that muscle and hopefully get rid of the pain. I had been really upset being it’s been almost 13 years since being floxed. I have had a lot of recovery. I’ve also had a few set backs of which I have no idea what caused them, thus the frustration. Definitely not the Flexeril. As we’re all different. We all react differently. I would try it if your necks that bad as only a few doses of Flexeril will help those muscles to relax. Just a caution they cause sleepiness SO I would take them at night make sure you have enough time to sleep as you may or may not be groggy. They knocked me out. Yet also relieved the muscle pain in my back. Good luck. Hoping it helps and you don’t have any problems with it. They will definitely help that muscle group to relax.

      • melissam February 23, 2019 at 4:56 pm Reply

        Thank you both so much for weighing in. This helps tremendously!

  36. Henk Noordhuizen February 23, 2019 at 4:52 am Reply

    Most of the pharmaceuticals are not bio-digradable,and after flushing it through the toilet (with your urine and stools) they will,inevitably,come backt to you.Time after time.That’s what’t wrong with the synthetic “medicines”;even the bacteria and other water- and soil organisms can’t break them down.The step from natural medicines to synthetic/chemical “medicines” was one of the biggest mistakes of mankind.Together with their allies,the chemical industry,they managed to shape this beautiful planet into one,big chemical wasteland,our bodies included:


    The full documentary “Biosludged” can be seen on youtube.

  37. Henk Noordhuizen February 23, 2019 at 4:57 am Reply

    Here is the link to the Biosludged documentary:

    Was not suprised at all to read that,among all those pharmaceuticals,found in the sludge,was the one we know so well: Ciprofloxacin.

  38. Attsy February 24, 2019 at 3:36 pm Reply

    Hi guys,
    I have tried numerous things which you recommend for stomach issues and I still get relapses and can’t gain weight. It’s starting to be tiring and annoying; the pain wakes me up at night some days. And I thought it was over because I had 1,5 months relief. I don’t know what triggered the relapse.
    I don’t know, I just needed to vent, I know you have also many problems and I just feel very sad that this is happening. As I read your posts everyone has something to recommend but I can’t recommend anything because my body hardly tolerates even vitamins or minerals.
    I would love to wake up one day and make myself a coffee and then eat a chocolate without problem. Yes, maybe this dream will come true one day.
    Last three weeks I got very strange symptom, which maybe is due to the all stress – but I don’t know, blurred vision and coordination problem which went so bad that I fainted. Could this also be side effect of the antibiotics? I have never suffered with this before even when I was in stress or anxious. And up to this, I was listening to music and I decided to do jumping jacks and my finger on my feet broke – I have not expected this could happen at all.

    • L February 24, 2019 at 5:02 pm Reply

      Absolutely these can be from the antibiotics. I had multiple vision issues, including blurred vision. Coordination problems could be due to nerve damage or mitochondrial damage. As for the weight, I had lost 1/4 my body weight within two weeks post cipro. I was barely able to walk I was so frail. It took me months to put the weight back on. Because I was having so much trouble breathing, I could either chew or gasp for air, so I had nothing but smoothies for most of the first year. I loaded them up with avocado, almond butter, coconut oil, fruits…whatever I could find to up the caloric intake. I also was using digestive enzymes, probiotics, DGL licorice, HCL Betaine. It was really hit and miss for a while, but I finally got there. You will too.

      • Attsy February 25, 2019 at 4:07 pm Reply

        Hi L, thank you so much for your answer. I admire your strength. Anyway do you think it’s necessary to go for gastroscopy? I know that you all went through a lot of procedures but honestly colonoscopy and gastroscopy are procedures which I am extremely scared of. The fear is mixture of rational and irrational thoughts. Here you don’t get sedation for gastroscopy you go only with the numbing spray. I am almost 100% sure I won’t tolerate it and then I am scared of side effect, botch job, rude staff etc. I also don’t believe my new gastroenterologist because he does not believe in antibiotics side effect and lactose intolerancy. What do you think about it?
        I honestly feel like a wimp….

        • lisalisa12years February 25, 2019 at 4:36 pm

          I was given Levequin. I lost weight in the beginning but didn’t realize it was side effects because I was going to the gym and walking 2 miles a day. I’ve now gained weight which happened due to heart issues. I’m going on 13 years post flox. Such a bumpy ride. There’s been GREAT days then bad. I do get tired of the strick diet needed to follow in order to stay well. I’ve been fighting a long time. I’m back on my subliguals daily and shakes in the am full of nutrition. I’m still having a horrible time with gut issues not absorbing nutrients again. This usually helps. Changing gastro as she doesn’t BELEIVE levequin caused these problems. Asked who diagnosed me. I answered 20 plus side effects over the course of these past few years. I’ve noticed younger Doctors are more aware of the issues these drugs caused. I have a great endocrinologist who knew about these drugs and. Called them the ” Big Guns ” if a Dr doesn’t believe you. Find a new Dr that does. Best of healing to all.

        • L February 25, 2019 at 5:01 pm

          Not a wimp! I can’t imagine doing it without an anesthetic! You need to go with your gut (oops, did not intend a pun). IF it were me, I likely would not have it done. Every single test they put me through came back negative. I did have a colonoscopy but only because I did that home test which came back positive. So I was scared into it. There was nothing wrong and it was a false positive. I won’t be getting another colonoscopy again.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 26, 2019 at 2:26 am

          I had a gastroscopy in 1998 or 1999 ,and then got Losec,which did,in time,do horroble things with my health,due to the magnesium-defficiency it causes.There was no numbing spray but it didn’t hurt much;just the nasty feeling of the tube going down the throat. This procedure seems to be very safe,in contrast to a colonoscopy,which can cause a lot of problems and amage.Dr. Mercola wrote about the dangers of colonoscopy,a while ago.

          One advice I got from somebody and proved very usefull:take a bag of fruitgums with you;sucking on the fruitgums eases the pain and “raw” fealing after the gastroscopy,and it helped me quite well.It was some years befoere my first AB and I didn’t have trouble with sugar at the time,but if you’re concerned about the sugar,there are “healthy” winegums with stevia as a sweetener,and natural flavours.

          Here an article from Dr.Mercola on colonoscopy:


        • Attsy February 26, 2019 at 12:21 pm

          Hi Henk, thank you for the link, I have read it and this is the exact reason why I refused colonoscopy, because I am well aware it has many side effects.
          Also thank you for the encouragement, I am still scared, my grandma also did it without spray and it was easy for her. Well I have my doubts. Also thank you for the tip, I will take the bonbons with me, if I decide to go.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 26, 2019 at 1:23 pm

          Hi Attsy,in my country bonbons are chocolate candies.The fruit gums are soft,transparant and colored candies.Chocolate bonbons are great,too,but wont be of much help after a gastroscopy :-))


        • Attsy February 26, 2019 at 12:32 pm

          Hi Lisa, thank you for the answer, 13 years seems so long time and I feel for you :(.
          Yes, I think that younger doctors believe more to this, this gastroenterologist is unfortunately older, I thought he was younger but was wrong.

        • L February 26, 2019 at 12:41 pm

          I’m not Lisa 🙂 All her posts actually say Lisa

        • Attsy February 26, 2019 at 12:46 pm

          Hi L, it was answer to Lisalisa :D, I have no reply buttom for your post 🙂 – it’s missing there. But thanks anyway I am still thinking about not having it done and I read your story about colonoscopy, quite frightening :(.

        • Attsy February 26, 2019 at 2:45 pm

          to Henk:
          Henk, so did you have any side effects after gastroscopy? Like acid reflux, bad sore throat, infection, stomach pain, vommiting blood etc.? Or did you just recover quickly?
          And yes thanks for the link :), here we call everyhting bonbons but I understand what you mean, thank you.

        • Henk Noordhuizen February 26, 2019 at 3:18 pm

          Hi Attsy,the doc sent me for the gastroscopy “because I had acid reflux,since 30 years”. I was very amazed! I’d phoned for a repeat-recipy,as I did for years,for Meprobamaat (a mild ,minor tranquillizer) but his assistant told me that I had first to visit him.He told me that he didn’t want to give another prescribtion for the Meprobamaat (which I hardly used; a prescription for 2 months lasted me about a year).He insisted on the gastroscopy,and years later I started to understand that he needed that gastroscopy to subscribe me the Losec (because of the bonus he got :-((

          Right after the gastroscopy I had a sore throat; that’s why somebody advised me to take the winegums with me.That helped a lot.This sore feeling softens when sucking on a winegum,and once in a while I used a teaspoon of honey as well.The second day this sore feeling is a lot less anoying,and the third day it’s almost gone.

          The idea of this tube,being pushed down my throath frightened me a lot but the treatment itself wasn’t that bad,and the side effects were quite mild.Nothing to be scared for,Attsy,but you better ask for NOT using the numbing spray;that might give you,being a Floxie, serious reactions you surely don’t want !.There is no pain,when the job is done correctly,just some discomfort.Most of it,when the first inches are pushed in your throat,and then the nasty feeling untill the treatment is finished. Take your first winegim right away,as soon as the tube is out,and offer the doc and nurse one too ;-))

        • Attsy March 1, 2019 at 8:56 am

          Hi Henk,
          thank you for the nice and encouraging post.
          I have read numerous positive stories on the internet and yesterday I bought 9 mm flexible tube and tried it at home. Unfortunately as soon as it touches back of my throat I gag that much that I could compete in some gagging competition. I could not even figure out how to breathe with it or swallow.
          My doctor didn’t give me any information about the procedure (only that I should not eat 6 hours before it) so again I had to google everything but for some reason I would appreciate if he could talk about it with me more lol.
          My gut tells me to cancel it, that it won’t be a good experience but I don’t know if I can or cannot trust my gut because I have now doctor and hospital phobia. I would also love to get another doctor someone who would be able to talk to me more.
          Well I admire that you were able to do it without spray (how the hell did you do it??).
          Just I don’t understand what could the spray do to me? I thought it’s just mild local lidocaine anesthetic which works for like 20 minutes…..?

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 1, 2019 at 11:23 am

          Hi Attsy,during the procedure you breath through your nose,not through your mouth.And the tube they use is a bit rounded and,with the help of an experienced medic,slips in quite easily.I think that,by using a tube that’s not suited for this procedure,it’s not only painfull but might even be risky.Don’t try this at home,Attsy ;-)) The gagging,while the tube passes your throath,(almost) stops as soon as it’s passed and going futher down.

          The spray might trigger a relapse;better be sure and avoid it. This procedure doesn’t hurt;it is just an irritating feeling.And,as soon as the tube passed your throath and goes down,you get “sort of” used to it. I don’t tell you that it’s all fun,but it isn’t that bad (maybe the fear for it is the worst of the whole thing :-)) And it doesn’t last that long;only a few minutes. They even asked me if I wanted to see what happened (and I did;I’m a very curious guy ;-)) Not very interesting to see,but I couldn’t restist the chance of looking into my own stomach :-)) It even substracted me a bit from the annoying feeling.

          Don’t be afraid,Attsy;you’ll do fine.And don’t forget the “legal reason” you’ll have,afterwords,to fill your belly with those deliscious winegumes (I ,myself,really love the ones with black current/blackberry taste :-))

    • Attsy March 9, 2019 at 3:43 pm Reply

      Hi Henk,
      thanks a lot for your posts. I went there and somehow managed to do it.
      I have two unfortunates here. The first one I was a complete wreck so they had to give me spray and light sedation – and honestly there is no way I would be able to do it without, so you have my admiration. Second one as I was on very harsh diet the upper digestive system seems just fine but they took 6 biopsies. So now the high endomysium and transglut. IgA levels are a mystery or simply an autoimmune body response to the antibiotics.
      Well just wanted to thank you for your words! Actually according to your post I decided to go.
      Also decided to look for naturopath, doctors don’t seem to know what to do or have any useful advice. But I have to highlight, that they very extremely kind to me and I am very thankful for it.

      • Henk Noordhuizen March 11, 2019 at 12:40 pm Reply

        Hi Attsy,I’m glad I could be of help,be it,only a little.Your admiration for me,gone through that gastroscopy without any spray or sedation,might be a bit misplaced;I was quite a bit younger,than (43 years young),and,except for nerveous problems and stomach acid reflux (from too little acid,as I know now) I was quite healthy.Health-detoriation started with the Losec I got from the doc,after that gastroscopy.And from one “medicine” came the next,and the next….

        I think that tyour problems are,indeed, caused by adverse reactions to the antibiotic.Many floxies have the same kind of problems. Do I understand well,that they didn’t find any physical cause(s) during the colonoscopy? Wouldn’t surprise me; that’s the “normal” outcome of these kind of excaminations and tests on floxies (“Nothing wrong, it’s all between the ears”). Most auto-immune reactions are caused by intestinal flora damage,just like the allergies (I had none,untill my first AB-course,in 2004).

        L. sent a link to a website which explains what kind of education a naturopath gets.The main difference between an allopath and a naturopath is the way they treat patients.

        I read about your problems with vit. B12. There’s a spray-form of Vitamine B12 (Methylcobalamine),which I use since several years.Research has shown that it’s absorbed as well as the injections,and it’s not expensive.Here,in The Netherlands,I can buy it from two different trademarks; Pure Advantage,and Ergomax.The last few years I use the latter one because it’s cheaper,and comes with no added taste and flavouring. You might give this a try; one spray a day,under the tongue (175 spray’s in a little spray-bottle costs me €20 for Ergomax,€30 for Pure advantage;you need two bottles for a whole year).

        I hope you’ll find a good and friendly naturopath.I just did some research and discovered that my insurance does not pay this for me.Allopath’s and the Farmaffia are trying to block us,in the EU, from anything other than their poison.Shame on them!

        • Attsy March 12, 2019 at 8:22 am

          Hi Henk,
          I am 29 years old 🙂 and was scared as a small kid.
          I went only through gastroscopy (I declined colonoscopy because I didn’t want to disturb my stomach with the preparation and risk the deep analgosedation). I went through it mainly because I have higher IGA levels than year before although I am on harsh diet but it seems that the intestine was able to repaire itself during that time.

          It is very unlucky that we went to the doctor and looked for help and finally to get at the bottom of our problems and ended up far worse than before. My health problems started with the Trazodone.

          Wel l found the spray B12 on the website and will purchase it. Thank you for the tip. Today I bought some new magnesium product so I will try it too.

          I hope here in the Czech Rep. I will be able to find someone good.

          Thanks again!

        • joanneb4 March 12, 2019 at 4:52 pm

          Which B12 spray and magnesium did you get.

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 13, 2019 at 2:58 am

          I used Pure Advantage B12 untill I discovered Ergomax B12,which is over 30% cheaper.Both are small spray bottles,containing 175 servings.

          I used Magnesium Citrate for years,but since 1 1/2 week I started using Magnesium L-Threaonate.This last one definitly makes me sleep better. I bought,accidently,one of the most expensive trademarks (Healthy Vitamines);it looked as being the cheapest but their packages contain only 10 (!) servings,where those from other companies contain 30 servings.

          The cheapest Mag. Threon. is from the trademark Now. It is still much more expensive than the Citrate,but I take only 1 capsule/day,instead of the whole daily serving of 3 caps.Can’t afford to take more but this 1 caps already does a good job on my sleep.I might add 1 Mag.Citrate a day,in the future ;here,Solgar is my favorite.

        • joanneb4 March 12, 2019 at 4:53 pm

          Which B12 spray and magnesium did you get?

        • Attsy March 12, 2019 at 10:00 am

          and one more thing, yes insuracne also does not cover naturopaths here and alternative medicine is very expensive so I understand you well

  39. Kyle February 26, 2019 at 6:54 am Reply

    Hi L- due to finding polyps at a young age I’ve had a colonoscopy yearly as a preventive measure. Considering I’ve been floxed for 11 months and very nervous what affects the anesthesia will have on me (Versed), I’ve avoided the colonoscopy and I’m way past due. I’m curious why you wouldn’t have another Colonoscopy is it because the affect the test had on your health, or because it was a waste of time?

    • L February 26, 2019 at 10:24 am Reply

      Well, a couple reasons. I have had 4 now that showed no polyps. I also had a horrible nightmare of one (not the very last but the one before that) where the day before was really hideous, I was still having “issues” on the way there the next morning and had to stop 4 times, then I went through just a really awful situation with a lot of people in the waiting area, hooked up to IV hours before I was actually taken, things falling on the floor and put back up on my gurney without sanitizing. Then after all that, I didn’t feel the least bit groggy—not sure what they did/didn’t give me, and after poking around for several minutes, the doctor said “I can’t do this. You’ll have to come back.” I vowed then and there I would never have another one, and the only reason I got the last one was a false positive on the home test kit. There is also always the risk of perforation.

      • Madge Hirsch February 26, 2019 at 6:26 pm Reply

        Plus the prep strips away the microbime and according to the surgeon who did my colectomy it’s nearly as damaging as taking an antibiotic. I have had acid reflux and bloating for months after each one I’ve had. Trying to restore it with probiotics made it worse at first. My last one was mid August and it’s only now returning to normal. No more for me !

        • L February 26, 2019 at 8:16 pm

          Good point! Don’t need more damage there either

  40. Andrea February 27, 2019 at 11:46 pm Reply

    Hey guys. Any info about antihistamines? Are the dangerous for us? I’m experiencing a terribile allergic reaction. I don’t know why. It could be food, the weather, dust, I don’t know, but I’ve noticed this symtoms since the GI issues caused by the probiotics…any help?

    • Philippa February 28, 2019 at 12:13 am Reply

      Having been floxed in 2011 I had one pill of Clarithromycin last year and all hell broke loose: I woke up the next day covered in hives and in agony. I have experienced them many times since. I had never had hives before that!
      I think the floxing may switch a genetic switch and turn on allergic responses.
      I have tuned my diet even further and have not had an attack in two months.
      No grain at all, only grass-fed butter, meat, no dairy. Plant based otherwise.
      Hope this helps.

      • L February 28, 2019 at 9:29 am Reply

        That’s an antibiotic though, not a an antihistamine. In fact you might try treating the hives with an antihistamine

    • Anna February 28, 2019 at 7:26 am Reply

      I took one Benaryl and 48 hours later I could not walk for two weeks, then all went back to normal. I have no idea if the Benadryl was the cause or not. I know other people here claim antihistamines are not a problem for them. Everyone is different; kind of like how I can drink wine and tons of coffee without issues, but others have issues with that.

    • L February 28, 2019 at 9:26 am Reply

      Personally I have had zero problems with antihistamines. In face I am doing allergy drops (they are like allergy shots) and I have taken antihistamines several times when I had an issue with the. Also, since there is a link between flq toxicity and mast cell activation disorder, which I thought/think I might have–I had tried antihistamines for that reason, since it is one of the mainstays in dealing with mast cell. Again, I had no problems, and I have taken several different kinds—otc like Benadryl, as well as antihistamine (non-steroidal!) nasal sprays.

    • Andrea February 28, 2019 at 4:29 pm Reply

      thanks everyone. Thanks a lot L expecially.
      For now, I’m not taking anything. If the allergy keeps getting worse and worse, I’m probably taking some antihistamine.
      The worst part is that I feel so stupid, because this time it was all my fault. I took those damn probiotics, without a real reason, and now I’m stuck with GI problems, and probably this allergy is a reaction related to that, because I’m noticing that everytime I eat nuts or dairy the allergy flears up..

      • Henk Noordhuizen March 1, 2019 at 1:26 am Reply

        Andrea, it’s not stupid to take a probiotic! And I still think the problem is caused because you took only the first of 3 parts of that probiotic course;the second and third part of that course would probably have balanced everything. You might ask the lady who sold you the first part of the course how,and why (she’s an expert,you wrote).And she should have told you about that second and third stage of the course when she sold you the first one;she’s to blame for giving you too little information about the importance to take the whole course,and the risk of only taking the first stage.

        • Andrea March 1, 2019 at 5:17 pm

          No Henk, sorry, but I disagree. My gut flora was completely healthy. Since being floxed I’ve never had any GI problem, even during those days, when, very depressed and stressed out, I was eating a 95% crap diet.
          I’m seeing a real doctor now. She’s a bilogist/nutritionist with a real degree. She’s young and open minded. She’s a vegan, and she suffered many health problems in the past, also because of doctors and surgeons who underestimated her problems, so, for different reasons, she’s been in our shoes too. She told me she knew about those probiotics, and while those PBs are good and reliable, they’re also very powerful and specificly made for people who suffer from diarreha and other similar problems, not for people with a good gut flora who are just looking for some kind of health prevention. She put me on a strict diet specifically designed for a irritable bowel : no dairy,no gluten etc. She also suggested some other probiotics, but she told me everything about them. Let’s see what’s gonna happend.
          Now, as for the lady in health food store,I was ironic when I wrote that she was an expert, but I don’t blame her. Of course she should’ve told me about the side effects, and probabIy should’ve discouraged me from taking them, since there was no reason for taking something so powerful for someone with a healthy gut, but she’s just another snake oil seller. And probably too ingorant to understand my situation, even if I explained it to her before buying that stuff. When I went back to her, after I was experiencing all the bloating and costipation,she told me that it was normal too experience some side effects, but I noticed she was nervous this time (probably she was worried I was going to blame her) and in a subtle way, she was trying to tell me that it was my fault, because I was eating a diet that was not right while using these PBs. That’s weird, since I already told her what my diet looked like, and she had no problems in selling me that stuff. Anyway,I.never belived in naturopathy, and while I can agree with part of their theory, at the end of the day, naturopathy it’s just pseudoscience. That is ,of course, just my opinion. Maybe in other countries is something more credible, but here, it’s just a joke. It was my fault, plain and simple. It doesn’t have any sense to take some stuff to try correct something that is alredy working well. But, as you an imagine, we’re all looking for something that will make us feel better. Sometimes we find it, sometimes we take the wrong stuff.

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 2, 2019 at 4:06 am

          Hi Andrea,you’re right:you shouldn’t have used these kind of strong probiotics in the first place,having a good gutflora. Probiotics is all about changing your gutflora; don’t repair something that isn’t broke! Didn’t know the one you used was so powerfull,ment for people with severe gut problems,and the protocol with three different compositions makes things even more complicated.My thought was that the other two might have balanced the first one,which is a ferment.

          Naturopathy isn’t totaly wrong.Don’t forget that science-based medicine is the reason you’re a Floxie.SB-medicine takes a (naturopathic) herb,then copies (more or less) ONE substance of that herb (the one of which they think it is the working ingredient),in a chemical/synthetic way and gets a patent on this chemical cocotian.

          There is a lot wrong with this theory! Why it is (still) a theory? Because,as far as I know,there as never a test in which the working of the synthetic copy and the original,natural,medicine were compared.And it becomes more and more clear that those synthetic medicines don’t work as expected,and give lots of,sometimes severe to life treatening adverse reactions.Why we believe it works? Those companies do all the tests themselves,and there fraud,cherry-picking and other unethical malpractices are common tactics.

          About 50-75% of “science-based” medicines is based on natural medicines,and the main reason for the patent system is,to create a monopoly and to turn lead into gold. It’s a fact that most of these natural medicines are more efficient and much safer.Synthetic medicines are less efficient (because they lack a lot of other substances that are in the original plant,herb,etc),and,to compensate for this,the synthetic medicine is dosed way higher than it’s natural source.And that’s only óne of the reasons synthetic med’s are dangerous and have so many adverse reactions.

          Because naturopathy isn’t (yet) a science,there is no filtering system,and every naturopath tries to put in the things he thinks,might work.And there’s not the enormous amount of money,needed to do research on the natural medicines,without the option of patenting,and earning the research money back,maybe even make a profit.This patent system is used as a dirty way to take the original medicines (herbs etc.,used for thousands of years,with lots of anecdotal proof of efficiency and safety),and turn it in a chemical “medicine” for profit.

          At the moment the industry is trying to patent natural substances like cannabis and other traditional natural medicines (India regused to give them patents on several traditional indian medicines,untill now).I America,CBD oil was sold freely,untill the FDA,on behalf of a pharmaceutical company (probably GW Pharmaceuticals) prohibited this freedom of choice;now Americans can buy CBD from this company (very expensive!),or on the black market (illegal,but when you can’t afford the legal CBD…)

          Have you heard about the Dandelian Roor Project? An oncologist had a group of patients who refuged the traditional Cut-Poison-Burn treatment (chirurgy,chemo and radiation).The doc initially thought these people would,eventualy,come back,brought in on stretchers,but when they came in for control visits they were doing a lot better than the patients who followed the chemo/radiation protocol.When asked,they told him that they,by tradition,drank dandelian tea when tey were ill.

          The doc phoned a friend/researcher at the University of Winsor and asked if he could do some research on dandelian and cancer,and two months later he got a phonecall of this friend,telling him that an extract of dandelian (he used the roots),killed,in vitro,ALL cancercells in 48 hours ! And this same extract proved 100% safe for healthy cells.Now he wants to develop a safe and cheap anti-cancer medicine “for the third world people,who are too poor to pay for our western method of treating cancer”.


          Eventually the Farmaffia will make it’s own concoction out of the Dandelian root,and we will pay the “western price” for it.Just like we will do for all medicines based on cannabis and other medical plants.They understand so well that their own,chemical synthetic/medicines are so inferior to the original,natural products,but,with the enormous amounts of money they can spend and the political power they bought,they are,for the first time in history,able to patent natural substances;even the USA has a patent on ” future medical use of cannabis and it’s components”

          I was a quite healthy man,with some minor problems (stress related) untill my doc pushed me Losec.This ruined my health and brought me heart-problems.Got Flecainide Acetaat for this,which caused bleedings in my intestines.At the same time I had a blader-infection because a kidney-stone (caused by an anti-acid I used;I had stopped using the Losec after two severe heart arrithmea);my doc gave me Cipro.And,well,here I am,at FloxieHope.And,like several times before,it’s the alternative medicines that help me recover,as far as possible,from the damage,done by “Science-based Medicine”. My doc,shouting at me: “I never had any complaint about this medicine (Cipro)”

          And here you are.

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 2, 2019 at 4:10 am

          Fermented vegetables like sauerkraut,Kimchi,and drinks like Kefir;those are safe probiotics to strengthen your healts.Cheap,healthy,and safe.

        • Andrea March 2, 2019 at 9:14 am

          I agree and disagree with what you wrote. I don’t think naturopathy is just crap, I think that some of its approach is good and realiable, and I also agree with you when you say that there’re arent lots of trained people around that can help you in the right way. (talking about naturopaths). But I completely disagree when you say that the natural version is a superior form of the chemical. I really think that science/medicine, isn’t perefect. There’re lots, probably the majority, of doctors, that don’t know s**t. They’re completely clueless and close minded. And the ONLY relate on drugs and surgery. But this doesn’t mean that science/medicine is just wrong. I think that drugs, eg. antibiotics, changed our lives, and for the better. Now of course, is the use that we do with them that it’s wrong. Chemioteraphy, is an extreme mesure, but it can save your life. It’s not sure that it’ll d it, but when you have cancer, your’re left with very few options. I didn’t know about dendelion tea, I’ll sure look it up, but I really doubt, that a plant can save you from cancer.

          PS “Don’t forget that science-based medicine is the reason you’re a Floxie”
          No. The ignorance, stupidity and negligence of the doctor I met, is the reason why I’m a floxie. Like a said, science isn’t perfect, there’re risks everytime you take a drug, and FQs are really dangerous drugs, but, as crazy as it may sound, I still think they have their place in modern medicine. Of course it should restricted to extreme cases.
          Also, there’s lots wrong with all the “natural” stuff we now take, because, rightfully, we’re so scared to take any kind of prescription drugs. These probiotics are an example. Natural doesn’t necesserly mean healthy…

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 3, 2019 at 3:52 am

          My short reply:read this (the alchemists versus the naturopaths in the fight against cancer):


          And remember that there is fast growing evidence that modern medicine (= science based) is not cause of death Nr.3,as assumed for the last decennia,but with growing evidence that modern medicine (and other chemical,synthetic substances) is one of the main causes of cancer (toxins like fluoride damage mitochondria,and mitochondrial ánd nuclear DNA), and heart diseases (main cause is a magnesium deficiency:Mark Sircus,Dr.Carolyn Dean etc.) and a fast growing list of modern medicines (FQ’s are on this list,as you might know) depletes the body from magnesium). This makes modern medicine cause of death Nr.1 !!

          The reason why synthetic/chemical medicines deplete the body of magnesium is simple: the human body regognises non-natural substances as being poisons and immediatly starts processes to remove the poison.For many of these processes magnesium is essential.This might be the main reason why older people are more prone to adverse reactions of FQ’s and a lot of other medicines (there is an FDA advise,warning for FQ-risks if prescribed to people over 60 years old).And there’s mounting evidence (annecdotal?) of people with a mangesiumdefficency being at higher risk of adverse reactions when using FQ’s.

          Scouts,payed by the Farmaffia,are running all over the world,asking shaman’s and other medicine men, and “oldfashioned” doctors about their natural methodes and medicines,just for óne reason:to copy and patent those natural remedies.All for the money! The Farmaffia even tries to patent more and more natural medicines that are used,succesfully,for centuries,or even millenia (like Cannabis,and traditional Ayurvedic medicines). All for the money !! And the science you admire so much is full of fraud,cherrypicking and other unethical tricks to produce “proof” their “medicines are effective,and safe. And,again,all for the money !!

        • L March 3, 2019 at 10:40 am

          I pretty much agree with everything you said. And sadly most people are so brainwashed that if you dare suggest that a pharmaceutical might be toxic, they resist the idea. (Side note..I was on Dr C Dean’s site and was irritated that she made comments regarding flqs that made it sound like they only damage tendons, and that the “fix” was magnesium. I wrote a long email regarding the devastating breadth of injury and explaining that while mag is important, if it were the “fix” we would all be “cured” by now. I got a response from one of her people asking me for more information, which I sent. I also sent her other sources and other names to get information from. Anyhow, I was impressed to see a genuine interest in correcting her misinformation.

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 4, 2019 at 2:00 am

          L.,great,that you contacted Carolyn Dean about FQ’s.Don’t blaim her for not knowing all details about the tremendous damage these poisons can do;she can’t possibly keep up with all the news regarding FQ’s like we do.We are focused on this one subject,and during the past year so much changed,regarding FQ’s.The hearing in London,in june,the new black box warnings and so on.By the way;in august 2018 she did mention a number of adverse events on her website,not just tendon ruptures:


          But it’s good to point her to the FQ problems,once again;people like her are a good thing to have “on board”.Please,keep us informed about any reaction from her.

        • L March 4, 2019 at 10:25 am

          well the reason I felt a need to contact her was that she made misstatements. If you are not familiar with something you should not make claims. I was glad though to see a willingness to correct them.

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 7, 2019 at 3:35 am

          Here an interesting website which shows,in more datail,what’s wrong with modern “medicine”:


        • L March 7, 2019 at 10:34 am

          Yeah, I like that guy. I have seen him in videos (I think the Truth About Cancer perhaps.)

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 7, 2019 at 11:05 am

          He participitated in both The The Truth about Cancer and The truth about Vaccines,if I’m right.Lots of very usefull info on natural healing on his website! For example info about natural antbiotics,and anti-virals.

    • lisalisa12years February 28, 2019 at 5:22 pm Reply

      Andrea, I’ve always had allergies year round. Since being floxed I just suffered several years. Through research and trial and error I found a natural substance called BORAGE. It looks like grass clipping stocks and all. Yet it works SO well no adverse effects at all. Stopped the constantly runny nose and tearing eyes. You make it like tea soaking it in boiling water. You can add a bit of honey I just drink it down when it’s cool enough. I’m not sure if you can find it. I actually got lucky as my local Shop- Rite has it. It comes loose in the package. It’s only about $4 and works so well. It’s shocking. After years of suffering to find something that has no side effects and works is amazing. Earthy flavor but tolerable unlike SO many other things. Turmeric woah. Good luck. Hoping you’ll be able to find it. Best of healing always.

      • L February 28, 2019 at 5:37 pm Reply

        Interesting. I have used borage oil skin cream. must be from the same plant

      • Henk Noordhuizen March 1, 2019 at 1:14 am Reply

        Borage (Borago officinalis) is a plant that’s used as a natural medicine for ages.It’s actually a plant everybody should have to support the bees;they really love this plant and without our help they’re going to be extinct in a couple of decennia.And,if that happens,there will be no apples,pears and other fruits.no cucumbers,tomatoes,aubergines,etc.Help by voting REAL green parties,and buying bio susatinable food).

        Here an article from Dr.Mercola;this news is all over the place.:


        • Henk Noordhuizen March 1, 2019 at 1:15 am

          I meant to write: “sustainable”

        • lisalisa12years March 1, 2019 at 6:14 pm

          Thanks for the info. I just googled natural anihistimines a few years ago and Borage came up. I looked all over for it. Just happened to find it in the grocery store near tea and things that are natural remedies. Of course they aren’t marked as that. It really does work very well. I buy all they have every time I go to that store. Afraid of not finding it again. I have it at night before bed and once during the day when allergies are really bad otherwise I have one cup at night. I hope you can find it and it helps you as well. Health to all. One day at a time.

      • Andrea March 1, 2019 at 4:13 pm Reply

        Thanks for the infos lisalisa

  41. Chelsea February 28, 2019 at 2:36 pm Reply

    Hi everyone!

    I am exactly a year post Levaquin today. I have definitely seen some improvement from those first couple months but I feel like I am permanently damaged. I have brain fog, zoned out a lot, constantly feel like I am going to pass out, no energy, head pressure, anxiety. All of these issues started after one dose of the FQ. I still deal with all these symptoms, every day. I don’t drive for more than 5 minutes away from my house because I am scared of passing out from being so zoned out.

    I am only 28 years old. I am a mom to a 5 and 2 year old and really want to be able to be the mom and wife that I am supposed to be. I hate that this is my life. Can anyone shed some light for me that I can recover from this and live a normal life? I have been so down lately about not being able to recover.

    I have not found anything that has stuck to help reduce symptoms. I have read a lot of mitochondrial supplements, magnesium, l theanine, etc.

    Any SUPPORT would be great! Please no comments on not recovering. I do not need to feel worse!

    Thank you for this supportive website!


    • Madge Hirsch February 28, 2019 at 3:45 pm Reply

      One year is not that long. Many people take longer. You are young and that is an advantage and though your reaction to one dose was severe it was only one dose so is probably more recoverable from . I was floxed many years ago without knowing it. I did recover but it took longer than a year. You just have to grit your teeth and believe that time is the answer. Do not stop taking the magnesium even if you think it is doing no good. The body needs it . Also how are your vit d and thyroid levels? Have you had them checked out?

    • lisalisa12years February 28, 2019 at 3:48 pm Reply

      Chelsea. Start with a blood test to find out what your deficient in. I began taking subliguals of all I’m deficient in. They go directly into your bloodstream. Baths in Epsom salt leeches out the toxins. Pulls in the magnesium. Wear gloves when using laundry or dish soap. I too had bad experiences with ” zoning out. Scary feeling so sorry this happened to you so young and recent. No fluoride that’s a big one. Tom’s of Maine or any other without fluoride. The main thing is to get enough nutrients into your bloodstream. This sometimes stops our ability to absorb from our food, thus subliguals. Avoid caffeine it’s also in tea. I stopped all. Now a small cup in the am. Switch away from regular milk Almond milk is great. Tasty as well. It’s better for all even your kids. As long as no one has allergies to nuts. So many different things. I would suggest you buying a really great book from one of Floxies greatest supporters. Dr J Cohen, he passed away a few years back but left his amazing book behind that explains SO much about causes and effects of Levequin Cipro Avelox. Called How We Can Halt The Cipro and Levequin CATASTROPHE. It really helped me a lot in the beginning. Of course so much more has been learned about this since. Try to keep your digestive system on track. That’s a huge plus. Scroll through the feeds look for different things that helped others. Worth trying. I myself had no clue I was floxed for the first five years. I believe if I had known I definitely would have healed up better. I’m almost 13 years out. I’ve come a long way. Please also take B-6 and Biotin. It will help to protect your nervous system. It’s a regimen you need to find that makes you feel better. Than stick to it everyday. I do believe believe healing is possible, especially when you catch it early. Switch to gmo antibiotic free foods. Please look through what others have been doing. Tweek things that help you. Good luck. Wishing you a complete recovery.

      • L February 28, 2019 at 4:09 pm Reply

        Dr Cohen’s book is great. Unfortunately, it is out of print and hard (impossible?) to find one anywhere. I wish they would do a reprinting. Not sure who currently holds the rights. I was going to write to the publisher, but it looks like he self-published. Still there is another company listed. I will try them.

        • lisalisa12years February 28, 2019 at 4:44 pm

          Firstly Hello L hoping things are good. We were floxed around the same time. Good note still both here fighting the good fight. I found information in the cover. I sent it out to Chelsea. Might be able to still have access on that site I hope so. This book really helps people to understand SO much. More and more being learned constantly. Hoping one day a cure or at least stopping the progression. Stay as healthy as possible. 😊

        • L February 28, 2019 at 5:33 pm

          Thanks. I found an email address on the inside cover of mine, and she said she would refer it to the floxie group! I wondered if she meant this site. She said she never got a copy herself. Not quite sure why her email address was listed on the publication page.

          Yes, it would be great to get these drug companies to try to find a fix for all of us! Hope you are getting steadily better too.

    • Andrea February 28, 2019 at 4:30 pm Reply

      Hi Chelsea, are you following a particular diet? what supplements are you taking?

      • Chelsea February 28, 2019 at 4:53 pm Reply


        Right now I’m not doing anything in particular. Kind of at a road block where everything I’ve tried hasn’t shown results.

        • Andrea March 1, 2019 at 4:30 pm

          Chelsea, I know what you mean, trust me. You’re still very young, and I think you’ll see a lot of improvement in the future, but it takes time, and patience in particular. If I can suggest you something, try to eat as clean as possible. Real,good, helahty foods. No sugar, no refined crap, no sodas and it would be wise to avoid alchol and caffeine (in particular) too. Try to find out, what foods makes you feel good and what don’t. I personally feel way better, when I avoid all kinds of dairy, sugar, caffeine, tea, sodas etc. I’ve noticed that eating lots of vegetables and fruits is good for me. Try to do, some form of physical activity. Walking, swimming, stretching. Whatever, but try to keep the body active, as much as you can, of course. Don’t try to push yourself too far Don’t go too crazy with supplements. I’ve used so many of them during this 2 years, and 95% of them where just a waste of money. Some of them made me feel even worse (like these last probiotics I took, that screwed my gut flora for good). I only use vitamin d3+k2 regularly, and from time to time magnesium. While vitamin d was always a good ally for me, magnesium is a tricky one. Most of the time it did nothing to me, sometimes could’ve helped, sometimes was detrimental. Always keep in mind we’re all different, so soemthing that is good for me could hurt you and viceversa. Hope this helped. Ask me whatever you want. It’ll be nice to answer your questions.

        • Chelsea March 1, 2019 at 5:29 pm

          Thanks so much Andrea! May I ask what your symptoms were? When did you start noticing any improvement?

        • Andrea March 2, 2019 at 8:50 am

          Sure…It all started with a tingling sensation in left achilles tendon, tha quickly spread to all the lower leg. It was painful, burning, like an electric shock, but continuous. There were days when I was feeling fine, and days when it never left me alone.
          I went like this for at least 5 or 6 months. Then all the symptoms exploded. I was always weak,dizzy,confused. I was experiencing tremendous fatigue. Both physical and mental. My legs hurted like hell. And from time to time, also my shoulders and wrists. I couldn’t conceetrate more then a few minutes. I was the scariest time of my life. Then, after a couple of months, I started to try to heal. I cleaned up my diet, taking vitamin d, and I expecially gave up coffee. I think that was probably one huge change for my improvements. i still feel different from the old me, but I defenetly feel way better. I still feel weak, from time to time, the pain in my joints is menageble now.
          I think, except for my bladder issues (and now this damn GI problems) I can consider myself 80-85% healed. But who knows in the future…

        • lisalisa12years March 2, 2019 at 1:47 pm

          I know we can and do heal. After over 12 years of this I’ve learned never to stop following what’s made me feel almost normal because whenever I do things start up again. I don’t believe this every completely leaves our bodies as its penetrated into our mitochondria the inner most part of our cells. Where all energy comes from helping our bodies to function at its proper pace. After several years living an almost normal life. I slacked off here and there on my regimen of subligual vitamins and minerals. I started feeling weak and developed circles under my eyes. I eat clean antibiotic gmo free foods. I got everything together and just started my tried and true regimen again. I’m already feeling better. I’ll always have progressive neuropathy. Damaged shoulder tendons. My belief is once we allow ourselves to know the things that will always be a part of us go. Be the best of ourselves and stop being angry at what was done to us, it truly sets our minds FREE to concentrate on positive thoughts and energy that helps us to heal. I posted a few weeks ago very frustrated. My apologies. I wasn’t feeling well because of my own doing. I will never again go off my own regime that keeps me feeling my best self. Health to all never give up. Hoping they’ll come up with something that is able to get all residual effects out of our bodies one day. PS: I found taking subligual Biotin and B-6 really helped get rid of the burning pain of Neuropathy. In all limbs after a full week of this the burning pain completely subsided. I refused gabapentin as a treatment. As natural as possible is my New friend.

        • Attsy March 10, 2019 at 2:43 am

          Hi Andrea,
          for some reason I have the same experience with supplements as you. I have also used many of them. Probiotics and magnesium play with my gut really bad and I always get floxed symptoms, which I find strange. I am now getting B12 injection (I have high deficiency) and I also think that it doesn’t help much and I get some symptoms back. I don’t know maybe I just use wrong combination or wrong amount. But I decided not to give up on this and searching through the whole community forum for some other ideas (tea, herbs another supplements….). Although I do believe in real medicine far more than alternate I am not sure about the doctors knowing that much about drugs and right non toxic combinations and also everyone is different.

        • L March 10, 2019 at 10:33 am

          I just want to point out something, when you say you believe in “real medicine more than alternative.” First, natruopaths (NDs) go to medical school. They learn what allopathic doctors learn EXCEPT the training is not driven by chemicals, as AMA schools are. “Real” medicine actually would be involved naturopaths, acupuncturists, herbal medicines, traditional Chinese medicine, etc. I avoid allopaths (what you call real doctors I guess) like the plague now unless they are integrative. And understand that most times when a pharmaceutical appears to “fix” something, it is only treating the symptoms.

        • Attsy March 10, 2019 at 11:30 am

          Hi L,
          Thanks also for pointing this out. I didn’t know that they also have medical education, thats because naturopaths Are not popular here. Maybe I was not good at expressing myself, I also think that real medicine should involve treating the casue not masking the symptomps. I am.now amending my diet, because I cannot stay in this state anymore.

        • L March 10, 2019 at 11:57 am

          It’s sad that they are not well accepted. But when you have all the billions of dollars from big pharma and the AMA used to smear them, it is not surprising. And since you mention diet, that is sadly something else that allopathic (western) doctors have little training in, while naturopaths a great deal. NDs can also prescribe certain medications if need be…they just generally use that as a last resort. This site gives a brief explanation of NDs. https://www.naturopathic.org/education

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 11, 2019 at 12:43 pm

          Thank you for this link,L.;just what I wanted to know.Naturopath’s are real doctors,only real difference:with an other approach to the way to heal. Clear!

        • L March 11, 2019 at 1:34 pm

          Yes! Four years of medical school. They can also prescribe, in need be, pharmaceuticals (last resort) and often end up requesting compounded ones. While I am here, I want to mention something. I know some have spoken here about the benefits of fasting. Recently an actual MD (NOT integrative) recommended supervised fasting for an on-going condition I have that I suspect may be an auto immune activated response from the Cipro. The reason he suggested supervised fasting was that it requires at least 7 days and you want to be monitored, have blood tests etc. Not sure if I will do it but definitely thinking it over. Luckily or the 1/2 dozen sites listed as vetted supervised fasting, two are in California. It has apparently been very helpful with autoimmune conditions and it is like hitting a restart button for your body. Wanted to mention this since others may be interested in giving it a try.

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 11, 2019 at 1:58 pm

          L.,fasting isn’t without risk for floxies. The possibility of getting a hypo is real,and might be of concern for floxies with a deregulated bloodsugar level (like mine). Fasting also brings all heavy metals,stored in your fats,back in your bloodstream. I don’t know enough of this matter but I advise you to do your research before starting anything,and please,keep us informed about whatever you find.

        • L March 11, 2019 at 2:02 pm

          These places come highly recommended ,and the first doctor I spoke with was quite familiar with flq toxicity. Please do not ever think that I do not research fastidiously. And one reason why it is SUPERVISED is to keep tabs on progress. Fasting is about as natural as it comes.

        • Henk Noordhuizen March 12, 2019 at 2:20 am

          Fasting is,indeed,a natural thing (and a third world problem!),being floxed is not..When you’re floxed,your body can react on natural things like a cup of tea in a severe way.I know;it was my favorite drink,before I got floxed.Since than I drank a cup of tea,twice,and both times I got a relaps. And when I don’t eat in time I start shaking,feeling cold,and my brain stops working.Even the simples actions,then,are hard to accomplish because of something way heftier than the “normal” brainfog.

          When I do some work in the garden,or in the house,for only 1/2 to 1 hour,I’m tired,but not in the normal way.It’s more like being terribly sick,and it can last for 2-3 days before I feel “good” again.

          I have no doubt that you,like me,do a lot of research on the web,but I doubt that there is anyone,including wellwilling doctors,who can call themselves floxie experts.The tremendous damage,done by these poisons,is so complicated,and the averse reactions so diverse,and there’s hardly any research done. It would take years of research,on a large group of floxies,to even get a basic understanding of all the damage that causes all our symptoms. And no institution seems to be eager to start an extended research on this subject (vaccins and antibiotics,like religion,are forbidden territory for skeptic scientists)

          I have fasting problems since I had an AB course with Amoxicillin and Metronidazol in 2004,got,to some level,over it by using (part of) the Beck protocol,but both the hyper- and the hypoglycemea came back in 2016,thanks to Cipro.I have my bloodsugar level back in balance (sort of),again thanks to the Beck Protocol,but I have tp pay a lot of attention on eating in time, I have to weight my carbs before prepairing my meal (white flour pasta’s mac 30 grams,whole wheat pasta’s max 35 grams,I react less severe on potatoes but there is a max,too.And max 1- 1 1/2 slice of whole wheat bread).

          So,my bloodsugar level is hard to control and when it’s too high,or too low,I react in a severe way.And these kind of things are out of control for doc’s/supervisors,because the fluctuations in your bloodsugar levels are way too fast,and constant,throughout the day.And that is,for shure, a risk factor when fasting.And even worse for people who don’t have such severe reactions to these fluctuations;they might not even recognise the signs of being near a hypo,and risk,getting into a coma (latest FDA warning on FQ’s)

          I noticed a lot of floxies write about brainfog,anxiety,concentration problems.Well,those are,or might be,symptoms of a too low,or too high bloodsugar level (the bain is very sensitive;when there’s not enough sugar,they can’t function well).So,I’m probably not the only one with a bad bloodsugar control function,here.Most of them don’t have a glucose meter,and don’t know how to use it in a functional way,and the single measurment a doc does when you visit him/her is pretty much useless.

          So,I have good reason to be worried about this fasting methode,for some of us,floxies.Ketonic fasting is the new hype,today,and for many it may be a good thing,but floxies are “different”.

      • Attsy March 12, 2019 at 12:07 pm Reply

        Hi L and Henk,
        just one word about fasting I believe it saved my life. In the end of November I didn’t see the point in living because every food I ate left my body as diarrhea. I decided to fast, I was convinced I would die other way (was very low in my weight). I did it for 10 days and drank only water. After it I ate a small meal and finally it stood in my body and then I finally gained something back but now my weight stands and it’s still low. But well I am alive at least.

        • L March 12, 2019 at 12:15 pm

          Good to know. If I do it I will do supervised, where they can do blood tests and monitor your condition, since I have other issues. It has helped people with auto immune disease as well as other issues, and I think it may be just the thing I need. I would expect to have this suggested to me by an integrative doctor or ND but it was actually recommended to me by a regular MD!

    • Virginia March 2, 2019 at 6:57 pm Reply

      Hi Chelsea! So sorry about your ongoing misery one year after Levaquin. As others have said, a year isn’t that much in FQ terms (though it feels like forever, I know…). That means there is hope for a full recovery, especially given your young age and just one dose. 4+ years out, although I recently had a 3rd partial tendon rupture (in which I suspect Cipro was involved), it healed with physical therapy within a few months. My other 2 partial ruptures have also healed and I rarely have any trouble with all 3. If you can afford it, I would suggest working with an integrated M.D. or naturopath to help with supplements, etc. If you can’t afford it, try reading everything you can about FQ recovery (like on this site) and trying things out. We are all different in how we recover, so what works for one may not for another. You can get better!

    • Henk Noordhuizen March 3, 2019 at 4:33 am Reply

      Hi Chelsea,most of the symptoms you mentioned my be due to a food intolerance (gluten? Other foods?) and/or a disrupted bloodsugar reulation (hypo/hyperglycemea). You might check on your reaction to carbs and sugars by measuring your bloodglucose during several days,with different meals,this way:

      First measure your blood glucose in the morning,right after coming out of bed.Write it down.This should be betweeen 3.9 and 5.6 mmol.

      The,with every meal,do these measurements and write them down (together with ingredients and amounts of that meal):

      1.Directly before eating.
      2.One hour after the meal.
      3.Two hours after the meal.

      Highest measurement ( 2 and 3) should be max. 8.9 mmol. When one or both measurements (2 and 3) are higher, cut down on carbs,and avoid refined sugars;those are extremely unhealthy.

      Use these measurements to determine which foods,and which amounts of carbs (bread,potatoes) make your bloodsugarlevel rise too much,or too fast,and change your meals,according to your findings.This might make a lot of difference to the way you feel.

      The written down measurements might help,if you need advise on this in the future.It helped me a lot;I had hyper- ánd hypoglycemea after both antibiotic courses I had (2004,and 2016,the last one with Cipro).

      Please,don’t be desperate;you’re young and there’s good hope for a full recovery,but it will take time.Some steps foreward,sometimes a (little) step back,but,as long as you keep away from EVERYTHING containing fluoride,you’ll do well.Greetings,and I wish you all the luck in the world!

    • A.Coleman March 4, 2019 at 1:12 pm Reply


      I will echo and reinforce everything all the others have suggested. Here are the key things to check and supplement IMO:

      Magnesium – get an RBC Mg check (not serum) and then depending on results start supplementing accordingly. Regardless I would target 200 mg / day of Mg in an absorbable form (I use Mg Glycinate, but there are others – not Mg Oxide). Consider Epsom Salt baths to both detox and provide transdermal Mg. There are some treatments that should not have gone out of style.

      Vitamin D – get this checked and start supplementing as appropriate. After floxing mine was down to 7ng/ul. This is super low and it took my body over 2 years to start using the Vitamin D I was giving it, but once I started increasing my D levels I started improving. Don’t forget to take Vitamin K along with D, since it is a co-factor. Also D uses up Mg. If you take a lot of D (over 2500 IU daily) increase your Mg intake. For example once my Vitamin D started working my Mg started going down even though I was taking 400 mg daily. I am now up to 600 mg daily of Mg along with 5000 IU of Vitamin D in winter and 2500 IU of Vitamin D in summer daily

      B Vitamins – get them all checked and get checked for RBC levels when possible not serum levels. Use a good form of B supplement with methylated versions of the B vitamins.

      MTHFR Check – related to the B vitamins I suggest you get tested for the MTHFR Mutation. I think LOTS of floxies have the mutation which interfers with our ability to metabolize B Vitamins. If you are heterozygous for one of the MTHFR loci you were probably fine, especially given your young age, before the FQ; but after it damaged your mitochondria your reduced ability to metabolize B Vitamins becomes more pronounced. I know in my case determining I was C677T heterozygous for MTHFR and starting taking the methylated versions of B6, B9, and B12 did a lot to help me heal.

      Glutathione – you have read lots on here about glutathione IVs and other treatments related to glutathione. This is also tied in to your MTHFR status. Personally a liposomal gluthathoine is what finally did the trick for me; though I never tried the IVs. While you are still majorly impacted this may not be a path to pursue as your body may not be ready for it. For me I didn’t respond well until 2 years post floxing.

      Digestion – Do everything you can to support your digestion. This was one of my major problems. Post floxing I developed gastroparesis and then bad GERD. It took me over 3 years post floxing to fix these issues, but now that I have addressed them all the nutrients my mitochondria so desperately need are starting to be metabolized better and my recovery has really taken off in the last 6 months. As suggested eat GMO / antibiotic free as much as possible. Also avoid as many processed foods as you can. To go to the extreme try a paleo diet that is antibiotic free.

      Sleep – do what you have to to sleep. I know all Floxies deal with insomnia. When I actually sleep I feel so much better the next day. While I have never resorted to prescription drugs for sleep I still consider taking them on a limited basis to help me heal. I tried all the herbal remedies and none of them worked for me. Valerian worked some but gave me BAAAD headaches. I still struggle with insomnia and even today average a bit over 6 hours of sleep nightly.

      Other things to check – though they did little for me. Coenzyme Q10, fish oil, Vitamin E, colostrum, whey protein, Vitamin A, probiotics. Note; that for me probiotics were the only thing on this list that caused problems. I didn’t react to them, but once I quit supplementing with them (I used them for over 2 years) my GERD started getting better; though this also coincided with my MTHFR diagnosis and a change in my B Vitamins that were probably more important.

      TIME – Finally the one thing that works for everyone to some degree is time. Everybody heals some and most heal a lot; maybe not back to pre-floxing but to a state where they learn how to enjoy life again. I know it sucks because we are talking huge lengths of time. Personally I am nearly 3 1/2 years post-floxing and I would say I am 90 to 95% better.

      While there will be lots of downs with the journey focus on the positives. I know that what helped for me was starting tracking my days. I color-coded my days and then scored them. I created 6 categories; Horrible Day 0-1 (almost all I had for the first year); Bad Day (2-3); Poor Day (4-5); Acceptable Day (6-7); Good Day (8-9); Perfect Day (10). I then set up a spread sheet and figured out the monthly average based on number of days with an obvious goal of a 6 – Perfect! Strangely enough even though you experience lots of ups and downs with floxie symptoms when you look at it long term like this there is pretty good statistical ability to predict recovery. My improvements are pretty linear going up on average 0.2 points per month with a statistical significance of over 95%!

      It took 2 1/2 years to get my first Acceptable Day but in the last year I have gone to where those are the worst days I have and last month I only had 5 of those days. I was in my late 40s when floxed and I believe age at floxing along with how physically fit one is are important factors. You are young and have to be fairly fit to keep with toddlers!

      Good luck and never give up. Post here as needed and try to focus on the good days – which I know can be hard

  42. koseflbtxz March 5, 2019 at 5:47 am Reply
  43. Randall Richardson March 5, 2019 at 6:16 pm Reply

    Question, has anybody had any problems with swallowing and what kind. Any info would be appreciated

    • lisalisa12years March 5, 2019 at 6:54 pm Reply

      I had problems in the beginning. Before knowing I was floxed. I used to wake up choking as if my throat would just close up. It happened less and less over time. I’m almost 13 years out. I haven’t had that problem in a long time. I’ve found the little effects go away on their own. The bigger long lasting, permanent effects need to be managed as best possible by each individual. I have progressive neuropathy of which I treat with mega dosing of B-6 and Biotin. That combination of the two really put the painful burning of neuropathy in check, I still get the numbness just not as much. Hoping your able to get your answers and heal to the fullest possible extent for you.

      • Bob March 9, 2019 at 9:25 am Reply

        How much B-6 and biotin do you take and what brand. My neuropathy is about a level 9.

  44. Andrea March 7, 2019 at 9:03 am Reply

    Hey L, you wrote youi never had problems with antihistamines, do you rememebr what particular kind of antihistamines you took?
    I was thinking about cetirizine (zyrtec), but I read that some people report anticholinergic symptoms from it, not really the best, for my urological problems…

    • L March 7, 2019 at 10:58 am Reply

      Benedryl (whatever store brand they had)

      • Andrea March 7, 2019 at 2:28 pm Reply


  45. Andrea March 7, 2019 at 9:17 am Reply

    Well, I read more about zyrtec, and it should be one of the most well tolerated antihistamine around, of course, who knows how can I be affected by it…

  46. L March 7, 2019 at 11:38 am Reply

    Lisa, I know you have posted different studies on FLQ toxicity and I am not sure if this was one of them, but I am going to post it here, because it actually suggests possible “work-arounds.” This is written in science-ese and difficult to absorb, and while they say they just don’t know the actual mechanism(s) of damage, they do offer possible treatments,depending upon which of the the scenarios eventually plays out. Interestingly, they are all things I have taken at one time of another. Some things they mention are: Mg^2+ (not sure how you get there from regular magnesium); ditto Fe^2+ for iron; copper oxide, manganese, Mito q, ppq, vitamins C, E; selenium. Interestingly they also mention metformin which is a diabetes medication (and also suggest that flq toxicity makes you more susceptible to diabetes). They also mention the likely value of ozone therapy to remove the flq, I wonder if it matters what stage you are in. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2017/8023935/

    • Krabiwi March 8, 2019 at 12:26 pm Reply

      That’s known and also referred to here.
      Michalak et al basically advice an antioxidative therapy. Beside supplementation of antioxidants they also recommend to inhibit glycolysis:

      “Citrate and other glycolysis inhibitors may reduce the “hydrogen pressure” on ETC reducing to some degree LEC and OS.”

      That can be achieved via ketogenic diet and/or intermediate fasting. I mainly therapy myself by that and 12 month out after a severe crippling reaction I am 80% out.

    • A.Coleman March 13, 2019 at 6:59 am Reply

      L – just a bit of quick chemistry to clarify some of your questions. Mg 2+ is just a reference to the ionic state of free Magnesium. Magnesium exists in its “natural” state as a molecule with two more protons than electrons, thus the 2+ nomenclature. It combines naturally with molecules with a 2- charge to make a compound. Oxygen has a 2- charge in its “natural” state, and that explains why taking Magnesium Oxide is a bad idea. Once bonded those molecules share their electrons and are neutral. They don’t break apart easily and your body is not very successful at breaking them apart to absorb the Magnesium. Once you do break that bond you have Mg 2+. So when you take Magnesium glycinate for example the body cleaves off the amino acid (glycinate) and then you have the Mg to absorb.

      Iron is a bit more complex because it has different oxidative states, but when you take an iron supplement your goal is still to get the Fe 2+ which happens if you take an absorbable form of iron. Lots of food that is iron supplemented is supplemented with forms your body can’t absorb interestingly. Cream of wheat in the use is fortified literally with iron filings!! Drag a magnet through the cereal and you will see little iron shavings start collecting. Needless to say very little of that iron makes it into your body.

      I find the discussion about ozone therapy interesting. I know lots of people on this site have tried it but every time I think about giving it a try and read up on it I find too many articles with negative comments to move forward. That and the nearest treatment location is 2 hours from my home.

      • L March 13, 2019 at 10:01 am Reply

        Thanks for the clarification. As for the safety of ozone, I would guess that the negative comments from AMA/FDA based sites? The one I would stay away from is an ozone tent. Some places have these little tents you sit in with your head sticking out. Problem is, the ozone will inevitably leak out and into your face and you should not inhale it. I have seen four naturopaths over the course of this, and all of them I trust implicitly and all use ozone. Sadly two closed up shop, one for financial reasons and another for health reasons (ironically she became an ND after western medicine damaged her, and that damage from an allopath came back again and made working impossible.) But the very first ND I saw, the one who gave me hope after a dozen MDs offered only ridicule, I would put up against any doctor as far as knowledge of the body, how it works, how to fix it, etc. He was the one who had already treated a half dozen floxies before me. At that time I was the only one. The other patients I saw getting IVs were pretty evenly split between cancer patients and Lyme patients (with one toxic mold patient). Virtually all of them were getting ozone. Again, I did not get it because he was giving me H2O2 IVs to get me off inhaled asthma steroids. (Yikes! You want to read some negative stuff about THAT…you’d have a field day! One doctor warned “don’t do it! IT’s dangerous!) Well I trust this guy and at that point I really didn’t care if I died anyway since I could barely breathe, barely walk, barely see, etc. I did the IVs, weaned off asthma meds and had no asthma for two years.

        So I guess the moral of the story is you have to do what feels right for you. You also have to find someone who is very competent at what they do. I wouldn’t get an ozone treatment from just anyone. I would want a referral, or have great faith in the practitioner from other sources or your own gut.

  47. Riley March 12, 2019 at 12:12 pm Reply

    Has anyone here taken an antidepressant after being floxed? I was taking one before and I want to continue but I am also afraid

    had bad anxiety before taking Cipro

    • L March 12, 2019 at 12:21 pm Reply

      Sadly they have their own set of issues. I was on antidepressants for decades and who knows what damage they did. I know when I tried to get off the first time I got electrical zaps in my knees and head. (Need to wean off) But I had read how turmeric (95% curcominoids) is as good if not better than antidepressants so that is what I switched to and was doing great until the Cipro. But even in spite of horrific mental side effects I never went back on antidepressants. If I were you I would try the turmeric with 95% curcuminoids. Do a search and you will find the studies on this. Also, other studies have found antidepressants no better than placebos. I think I stayed on them so long because I had convinced myself I needed to. and the old theory that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance has never actually been proven. https://www.newsweek.com/why-antidepressants-are-no-better-placebos-71111

  48. Andrea March 12, 2019 at 3:21 pm Reply

    Hi guys, just to let you know, tonight, a very popular tv show in Italy, is talking about fluorochinolones, reporting stories and cases. I’ll let you know what I think about it, as soon as I finish watching it.

  49. Andrea March 12, 2019 at 3:43 pm Reply

    I’m disgusted. They went with hidden cameras into many doctors offices and pharmacies. Everyone was prescribing it as first option, like candies. They called it “the magical antibiotic”. Pharmacies were giving the drugs even without prescriptions.They interwied a doctor who just prescribed it to a fake patient (a crew member). When asked if there was any side effect, he replied to the fake patient “none, easy, you’re not going to die”. When interviewed, later, he just said that if a doctor would tell to every patient about the side effects, nobody would ever take a pill again. They even interviewed the health minister. She knew nothing about it. Of course she said, when they told her what’s going on with FQs,that it isa very serious situation, but she said a thing that infuriated me. She said that, it’s also the patient’s fault, because many times, if the docotr refuse to prescribe something, they’re not happy with that decision, and they beg the doctor to prescribe it anyway…like I said disgusting.
    Oh another thing, they interviewed also a couple of US docotrs, expert in this field. They also said that in the US the problem is well known, because the FDA made important restricitons LOL

  50. Andrea March 12, 2019 at 3:48 pm Reply

    I mean, the show was great, finally something is moving in the right direction, but it was just disgusting to see all these ignorant pricks using these bombs like candies…

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