Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




25,486 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. joanneb4 April 26, 2019 at 5:53 pm Reply

    Does anyone else react badly to ultrasounds? I’ve had several for testing my bladder and also for my TMJ. I get really agitated and stimulated and my heart races and the skin feels like it is burning afterwards for a long time. Could I be allergic to the ultrasound gel? They keep telling me it’s a hypoallergenic water based gel. The ultrasound feels really good while it’s getting done. Is this Mast Cell disease?

    • L April 26, 2019 at 7:50 pm Reply

      Interesting. That’s about the only testing I feel comfortable with. I do recall early on when I had nightmarish olfactory nerve damage, the smell of the gel (like baby lotion) was so strong, I would cry through the whole thing. IT was so strong and piercing, it felt like it was ripping through my head. I recently had one though and fortunately that nerve damage went from Stephen King-ish to just sensitive to smells, so I was fine.

      I have suspected perhaps I have mast cell disorder causing my current congestion issues, but I don’t think that would cause you to react to a water-based gel like that. They do, I think, have some sort of fragrance, which is unfortunate, because synthetic fragrance is not good for you. But my gut reaction is that it is not mast cell if this is the only issue you are experiencing. (Although if you read the lengthy list of what could be presented as mast cell, it is near endless…everything from hives to interstitial cystitis to tinnitus all of which I had).

      I just did a little search and saw where other people had posted having an allergic reaction to the gel, so I suspect it may just be that.

    • Henk Noordhuizen April 27, 2019 at 2:27 am Reply

      Might this help understanding what’s the reason of your reactions?


      • hayley Mills May 13, 2019 at 4:54 am Reply

        To joanne its benzo wd and side effects. U can never have another benzo now as u are hypersenstive to even a tiny tiny dose. This will ease it just takes time , hang on in there. These f……. benzos must be banned. Drs have known of their dangers and side effects since 1960s.


    • Henk Noordhuizen April 27, 2019 at 2:30 am Reply

      Joanne,next time you need an ultrasound testing or treatment, a mineral oil as a contact agent might be the solution:


  2. Andrea May 2, 2019 at 5:55 pm Reply

    Hey guys, look a this stupid nurse and her suggestions…please thumb down the video and leave a comment.
    Of course I’ve already did it 😉

    • L May 2, 2019 at 6:58 pm Reply

      HORRIBLE!!!! So ignorant. I left a comment but didn’t see yours. Now I am going to write to drugwatch.

      • Deborah Harple May 2, 2019 at 9:56 pm Reply

        This nurse has no clue…what a laugh!

        • Andrea May 3, 2019 at 12:40 am

          Deborah, I suggest you to leave a comment under the video. We should let these idiots what they’re really doing to us, when spreading this ignorance

        • Deborah Harple May 3, 2019 at 2:10 am

          Sorry, thought I did.

      • Andrea May 2, 2019 at 11:07 pm Reply

        That’s weird L. It’s the sane for me, I left a comment, can’t see yours…

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2019 at 1:13 am

          At the moment there’s only one comment on youtube,from someone with the nickname “bruttosporcoecattivo”.Sounds Italian to me;might that be you,Andrea? Why those comments don’t show up? Many websites,maybe YT as well,have moderators who descide which comments are tolerated,and which ones aren’t.Another reason might be that YT/Google removes comments that attack the Farmaffia and their poisons but,regarding the many Farma-critic movies on YT,I think that that’s not the case.

          Ibuprofen belongs to the NSAID’s family of painkillers,as do Diclofenac,and Vioxx,which killed tens of thousands of people,in America alone.



          Of,what’s left of this “family” of painkillers,Diclofenac is probably the worst;research has shown it’s killing people by the thousands as well.Ibuprofen,too,raises the risk of heart attacks and kills people as well (Britisch research, a while ago).

          If possible,stick to Paracetamol use,or find out how you can treat pain in other,safer way’s;a search on the Dr.Mercola website might be a good start.And,while we hope to suppress pain a full 100% with those miracle painkillers,it might be a better option to suppress it partly with painkillers and other ways,and accept the pain that’s left;this works well for pain that’s not chronic.

        • Andrea May 3, 2019 at 9:12 am

          Henk, it’s probably due to the fact that we’re in Europe and L is from the USA. That’s probably why you can see my comment, but she can’t and viceveresa. Anyway, it’s still very weird…

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2019 at 9:38 am

          It is weird because I think that,usually,all comments appear online,right after you push the submit button,no matter where you live.So,the comment,with the italian sounding alter ego is yours? Is it because there is a difference between the european and the american freedom of speech? Wouldn’t suprise me because there are quite a few signs the american society is on the verge of collapsing. But the EU isn’t far behind;here,too,there are rumours of mandated vaccins etc.And several schools and childrens’s daycare centra started refusing children that are not fully vaccinated.Creepy,very creepy! Watch the “The WWI Conspiracy” series on ColberttReport for more insight;he’s a very clever guy!!

        • L May 3, 2019 at 10:12 am

          It shouldn’t make a difference what country you are in to see the comment. I have a feeling we are all talking about something different perhaps. Where I left my comment was right below the video of her when I read your post, on floxie hope. Are you talking about leaving a comment on another website? Also, drugwatch is on facebook. I sent them a message saying it was tantamount to medical malpractice.

          so, was there another site where you initially saw this video, where you left the comment?

        • L May 3, 2019 at 9:51 am

          I left mine right under the video.

        • Andrea May 3, 2019 at 3:35 pm

          L I left a comment under the video in the youtube comment section…the more people will comment it the better

        • L May 3, 2019 at 5:31 pm

          oh, so not under the floxie hope site posting of it? I will try to find online then.

    • Attsy May 6, 2019 at 11:13 am Reply

      seems like a typical advice coming from my doctors…….but well they don’t believe in fq toxicity

    • Attsy May 6, 2019 at 11:31 am Reply

      I left my comment under the comment section too.

  3. L May 2, 2019 at 6:57 pm Reply

    OMG. The WoRST advice!!! Ibuprofin???? Yeah, if you want to make your side effects worse and cause relapses. What the hell? And go back to your doctor, who Poisoned you to begin with and get MORE pharmaceuticals??? This is medical malpractice right here.

  4. Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2019 at 1:54 am Reply

    Some history on the way our medical system and our society was shaped by a few,unscrupulous men:


    And,while you’re there,at the CorbettReport website,you might also want to watch the the trilogy “The WWI Conspiracy”.

  5. Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2019 at 1:58 am Reply

    Dr. Peter Gøtzsche on the organised crime of the Farmaffia, a very revealing talk:

  6. Henk Noordhuizen May 3, 2019 at 2:18 am Reply

    Here an very good documentary about how the “science-based” medical mafia came into excistence,an absolute MUST SEE:

  7. Tricia May 4, 2019 at 11:47 am Reply

    Does anyone know if contrast dye from MRI (gandolonium) can cause a reaction ?? I recently had an MRI a couple weeks ago, they injected contrast dye and 24 hours later I had the onset of all my returning and worsening flox symptoms! 😦

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 4, 2019 at 12:44 pm Reply

      Hi Tricia,a few people have reported that they had negative reactions on this dye,here,on FloxieHope. Most of the time it was a relapse of the FQ adverse reactions they had before.They will probably fade away in the next few days.

    • L May 4, 2019 at 2:58 pm Reply

      Yeah, like Henk, I recall people having issues. I would avoid it if you can. It basically just makes it easier for the tests to be read, but usually you can do without it. However, if you do use it, you might take NAC. (I take it all the time; it is a precursor to glutathione and has many benefits.) https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080218172300.htm

    • joanneb4 May 4, 2019 at 4:51 pm Reply

      Could it also be a reaction to the preservatives in the dye? I had a bad reaction to CT Iodine contrast.

    • mmec7 May 31, 2019 at 11:07 am Reply

      Quote :-
      Tricia May 4, 2019 at 11:47 am Reply
      Does anyone know if contrast dye from MRI (gandolinium) can cause a reaction ?? I recently had an MRI a couple weeks ago, they injected contrast dye and 24 hours later I had the onset of all my returning and worsening flox symptoms!

      Tricia. Yes. Gadolinium (Gd) has very many side effects, even worse than being Floxed !
      The best site to check with is the The Lighthouse Project –
      Gadolinium Clearance Times for 135 Contrast MRI … – WordPress.com

      Click to access gadolinium-clearance-times-for-135-contrast-mri-cases-final-v1-1.pdf

      Dec 5, 2018 … Toxicity Support Group, gadolinium from all agents remains in the body longer than most medical practitioners and … The Lighthouse Project.

      The information is pretty horrific and right on. Six years later, the residual damage will be permanent. I am still paying for it. Was hospitalised. Still shudder at what I went through.

      Please check with Sharon Williams at the Lighthouse Project.
      This floxed group and the Gd group are almost tandem groups – big empathy.

      • Dee May 31, 2019 at 11:35 am Reply

        Mmec7. Thanks for the info on the colloidal silver!! Appreciate! So did you get damaged from the dye getting an MRI?? That is scary!!

        • mmec7 May 31, 2019 at 2:17 pm

          Dee – Quote : “So did you get damaged from the dye getting an MRI?? That is scary!!”

          Yes. Very much so. Iatrogenic Lipodermatosclerosis. Hospitalised. Skin fell off from hands, lower legs and feet. Massive oedema, 4 kilos (x2.2=lbs). Could not do up my sandals, so kept them on with string ! Serum streaming down my lower legs, trousers all stained. Stood there in front of the doctor, legs streaming, stained trouser legs, then he said he couldn’t do anything about it and didn’t know what it was. So, took myself off to hospital, where I was immediately admitted ! (Dumpted dotor!)
          Burning legs. Could not sleep. Burning down to the bone. Skin looking like it was red raw burnt. The pain was unbearable. Covered my hands they looked so disgusting.
          Then the brain fog. Now have many memory slips – words, people’s names, putting things down and…?? 7% of Gd is left behind in the brain. Great…
          Legs still burn, especially at night. Oedema still apparent, around 2 kilos overall. Skin is like leather, snake skin leather ! And all red. Horrid sight.
          You can google up Lipodermatsclerosis – lots of photos, not pretty. The dermatologist at the hospital took photos of my horrible appendages ! The resultant damage is permanent. I always wear trousers.
          Anyway, enough. You get the picture. Check out the Gd site, read pastient stories. Some ended up wheelchair bound ! Check out all the side effects. Take care.

        • Dee May 31, 2019 at 8:04 pm

          Mmec7. I am so so sorry you have gone through such a horrible reaction and experience. No one deserves that. I will say a prayer for you that the pain and trauma will ease as time goes on. So did you feel being floxed led to this reaction or it was separate from floxing?? I’m not sure about your floxing history but again I am so sorry you have had to suffer through this. I will take it as a warning to avoid the dye of an MRI. I actually had a brain MRI with dye several years ago and did fine but this was before I was floxed. I also had a cat scan a couple of months before being floxed and it did compromise my kidneys as they couldn’t detox and filter the dye. My GFR dropped dramatically after the Cat scan and I had to drink gobs of water! After several days my kidneys returned to normal which is still a pretty low GFR. Now that I have been floxed I’m sure I will avoid dye in the future! I hope things improve for you.

        • mmec7 June 1, 2019 at 3:00 am

          Dee – Being Floxed. Caught a vile bug, 2013. Was pretty sick – was fresh out of colloidal and hadn’t discovered where to purchase in France. Eventually took an appointment with GP. He prescribed a fluoroquinolone. I had only taken three tablets, when on coming down stairs my Achilles tendon partially ruptured. Straight to ER – friend came to rescue – and was put in a pot for the duration. Bloody nuisance, the whole affair.
          Interesting you also had a reaction to the iodine for a CT scan. Yes, that dye is a known to cause kidney damage even to the point of a transplant !
          I had to have such a scan to determine a thrombosis, then more for the procedure to deal with the thrombosis. My creatine levels were checked before the scan and I was hospitalised for IV saturation/rehydration in order to wash out the iodine dye from the kidneys. For the procedure the IV line was put in before the procedure – drug eluting balloon – then continued for 12 hours following. I was ‘awash’, but worked a treat. No kidney damage followed and the procedure worked : 10 cm blood clot popliteal artery (behind the knee). Can walk again, and kidneys fine.
          Very different scenario to the blasted gadolinium. Shudder. OK. Take care.

        • Dee June 1, 2019 at 6:50 am

          Mmec7. So quick question…do you feel you reacted to the MRI dye “because” you were floxed? Or it was a coincidence and you probably would have reacted anyway? What do you think or your Docs think? Were you recovered from floxing when you had the MRI or in the middle of being floxed? Since I am sensitive to the iodine I am very concerned about ever getting an MRI with dye although I could always insist no dye and do the best you can to read it! Thanks for your info on getting a safe C Scan. Hopefully will never have to get one but good to know!

        • mmec7 June 1, 2019 at 10:16 am

          No. I reaced to the MRI dye. Was very different to being floxed. Although it all happened within a six month period. MRI with Gd : very ill with a norovirus = fluoroquinolone; the put in a pot. Meantime, right leg acted up with the burning and skin problems. Then, another MRI with dye, then left leg was compromised. Both legs in total burning, pain in the bone, oedaema and all the rest, Oh yes. Skin on my back erupted, total mess, looked like a burn victim. Skin also fell off.. Then was hospitalised.
          Don’t accept an MRI with dye. ALL the dyes are highly toxic and you have already seen what Iodine did to you for the CT scan ! Don’t invit even worse reactions. Just tell, ‘No’. You are highly reactive to contrast dyes, end of story.
          No. My doctors and the specialists accept NO GD. My CT with Iodine contrast was well handled but, will be cautious about going in that direction again ! Though th thrombus was pretty serious : DVT + Pulmonary Embolism. Am on anticoagulants, specialist said for life. Way of the world !

        • mmec7 June 1, 2019 at 10:28 am

          Dee – P.S. I lost a ton of weight. Went from a size 12/14 down to 8 / 10. Six years later, have now put back the weight. Floxed +++ Gd’eed = Very Ho-Hum !

        • Dee June 1, 2019 at 11:24 am

          Mmec7. So you had the first MRI dye reaction before you got floxed? Then another MRI dye reaction after getting floxed? Wow. You poor thing…..so so sorry☹️ I will definitely stay away from it considering my C Scan reaction. Although I didn’t react to the dye a few years ago getting a brain MRI but now that I’ve been floxed I think I will stay far away!! Have you recovered from your floxing? How much FQ did you take and how long ago were you floxed? Sorry for all the questions. I like to inform myself of anything to be cautious of in the future after being floxed! I’m guessing you were very reactive to the dye before being floxed since you had a bad reaction and then was given FQs? I hope your floxing wasn’t too bad and that you were able to at least recover from floxing?

        • Dee June 1, 2019 at 11:31 am

          Mmec7. PS. When I got floxed I too lost a lot of weight!! Size 12/14 to 8/10! Lost 50 lbs! Gained 35 back which is enough for me as I was overweight anyway! Similar story with weight loss!!

        • mmec7 June 1, 2019 at 11:40 am

          Yes. MRA with Gd contrast – Floxed – MRA with Gd contrast. Was all crammed in to six months. Floxed also caused tinnitus. That was pretty bad. Still with me, though now just a mushy rushing noise, though occasionally church bells gone midnight ! Before, church bells, radios, parties / people talking loudly. You name it…incredible noise. Initially would get up at 1 – 2 a.m. to try and find out why the church bells were clanging. Going outside to see what was afoot As for the blasted radios gone midnight…truly awful. But of course, was the tinnitus !! Makes me laugh now, but then – Hmmmmm

  8. joanneb4 May 4, 2019 at 5:05 pm Reply

    Please help. I was in ER and they gave me an injection of Ativan and had bad reaction. I had been off benzos 10 weeks I knew I shouldn’t have taken it. It gave me anxiety and it also had polyethylene glycol and propylene glycol. It probably resensitized my nervous system and now I have bad nerve and skin and tissue damage from all that. A few days before I had an ultrasound treatment on my jaw and cheeks for TMJ and had a bad reaction to the gel and the head wrap they gave me that goes around my head with warm or ice packs and was neoprene and had a bad reaction to that. It feels like nerve damage and I can’t sweat there anymore and keep overheating there and getting red it’s embarrassing. I can’t feel or hear the same now. Yesterday I was spraying Evian and Avene thermal spring water on face to cool down. But I had a massive migraine too and functional medicine doctor told me to take magnesium. I had magnesium glycinate capsules from him 120 mg filled with microcrystalline cellulose powder and within 10 minutes felt super dehydrated. Then my skin and mouth started to burn and look raw and red and it looks like my skin is super thin and is bruising so easily. I’m constipated and bloated and retaining urine. It has sensitized my whole skin and body even my digestive system. It is SO dry. My heart beat is irregular and super fast, I’m short of breath and can’t sleep I’m so hot and flush. My muscles keep twitching. I can’t taste much either. What is this? Is it withdrawl now? Is it metabolic acidosis? Kidney damage? Too high magnesium? I feel like I’m burning from inside out.

  9. joanneb4 May 4, 2019 at 6:24 pm Reply

    Help! I used a 3% salicylic acid bar soap dermatologist recommended. It also had sulfur and ethanol. It has thinned my skin so much and it feels so dehydrated and burned. I feel like that inside too. I’m bruised all over. My heart keeps racing and I’m short of breath. What can I do? I can barely eat or chew. I got a super bad migraine and took magnesium glycinate and sprayed Avene thermal water on it and that made me worse. A couple days before in ER I had an Ativan injection and it and polyethylene glycol and propylene glycol Which think already had sensitized my skin and insides. I’m burning from inside out. I have no moisture or saliva and can’t sweat. Please help. What can I do?

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 5, 2019 at 3:16 am Reply

      Well,first of all,you have to calm down and relax. Your excitation is your worst enemy,at the moment,and making things much worse than it could be.When I read your posts I get the feeling that you could (and would) spit that whole first post out to someone,listening,in just about 3 seconds! Do yourself a favor and CALM DOWN.

      Why I advice you to start there? It will lower your heart rate,deepen your breath,and your body will stop using more magnesium than you can absorb,Don’t freak out;it won’t help! Most of this reaction is,probably,from withdrawl after using benzo’s and the Ativan injection.Maybe the best advice,here,is,to buy CBD-oil;this works relaxing and even anti-psychotic.

      With the complex concotion of substances you used it’s hard to figure out what caused all those reactions;some,like the soap,are probably quite innocent (but you better look around for a pure cocos soap,or make it,yourself,like I do).The polyethylene glycol is the reason of your dry skin;it is a hydrophilic substance.Try rubbing your skin,softly,with cocos oil,Lanolin or something else to help your skin restore itself.

      Nothing wrong with Magnesium Glycinate.but you need enough water to absorb it. Best,to use it (and your vitamines,if you take those in pill/caps form) during,or directly after a HEALTHY meal. To make eating easier, you can make nice and tasty soups, A tablet of bio bouillon,lots of different vegetables,butter and/or olive oil,salt,pepper,curcuma (if you like;it’s extremely healthy!),etc. Use your imagination!Add some rice,or pieces of potato,to make a burgoo You might not want to believe me but this might be the very best medicine for your body and mind. Give it a try!

      To make soups the easy way;in most supermarkets you can buy frozen vegetable mixes for soups,stir-fry etc. I use those frequently to make me a nice soup.There are combinations like “Asian”,”Italian”,lots of choice.

      I hope this will help you.Good luck!

      One question:you didn’t mention you used Fluoroquinolones.Did you? Or did you find Floxiehope by accident? I’m only curious,that’s all ;-))

    • Attsy May 6, 2019 at 11:42 am Reply

      Hi Joanne,
      I second Henk’s advice about CBD oil and diet. Since I was floxed I am extremely sensitive to most of the drugs and also food supplements, vitamins etc. But CBD is very safe! It helps me to get some sleep. I do recommend you to rest and relax a lot. Maybe take a warm bath which can help muscles to relax and make the pain less intense. Maybe I would avoid magnesium for now and wait for the symptoms to subside a bit and then try it again. You need to drink a lot of water too/or herbal tea.
      It will get better.

    • Attsy May 6, 2019 at 11:46 am Reply

      or if you can’t take wamr bath due to the skin burning I would keep myself warm with blanket, for some reason this helps me a lot

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 6, 2019 at 2:36 pm Reply

      I’d like to add a good quality vit. B complex to my advise. This might give you hot flushes,in the beginning,because of the vit. B6,but this is a reaction,caused by a vit. B6 DEFICIENCY.You might lower the dose for a while;the hot flushes will disappear after a while,when the deficiency gets lower. The B-Complex is extremely important for mental well-being! As is Magnesium. Magnesium d-threonate is best brain-absorbed form,the only form which passes the blood/brain barrier with ease.

  10. Henk Noordhuizen May 9, 2019 at 2:43 am Reply
    • L May 9, 2019 at 9:19 am Reply

      I get his daily emails too. I hate how he has been vilified by the mainstream. Sometimes when I use him as a source, even health conscious friends I know will post something like “he’s not a reliable source,” or make some snide comment. Good info every day.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 9, 2019 at 10:16 am Reply

        I follow him for over 15 years,now,and thanks to him I found out about lots of things I wouldn’t have known about without him.But sometimes he isn’t aware of things. Two days ago he wrote an article: “Vaccinated Flight Attendant in Coma. He wrote:”.While the media advised that the best way to stay “safe” is to get vaccinated, it’s only mentioned in passing that the flight attendant had been vaccinated.

        While he goes on to write”In the midst of rising hysteria over measles outbreaks in the U.S., media outlets have featured a story about a 43-year-old flight attendant who’s been in a coma for days due to encephalitis, or inflammation of the brain, which is a rare complication of both measles and the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine” he seems not to be aware of this excelent reading of Andrew Wakefield (who’s findings are,by now,confirmed by quite a few other scientists and their research!):

        This reading of Wakefield shows how the “scientific” based medical world and the media destroy people like him by using every disgusting tactic,available ro ruin their opponents. And yes;Andrew Wakefield was 100% right in what he found,and no;he didn.t commit fraud! Just another proof how lies rule our world,today!

        • Andrea May 9, 2019 at 4:31 pm

          Just to understand your point of view, Henk, are you against vaccines of any kind?

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 10, 2019 at 3:07 am

          Hi Andrea,there’s so much proof that vaccines don’t work like they should,some of them don’t work at all.And there’s mounting evidence that they ruin the immune system.Have you seen the Wakefield reading which I linked? Have you read about the “forbidden” research? Where two groups of children were compared,one group fully vaccinated,the other unvaccinated?

          After the first research,comparing Amish children to fully vaccinated children,it became clear that,where sickness among Amish (unvaccinated) children was very rare,the fully vaccine-“protected” children are sick all the time,many,if not most of them using one or more medicines on a daily base.The medical society reacted shocked (well;everybody did),and the Farmafia was quick to order a stop on these kind of researches..Nevertheless,a second research was done,with the same setup,and the outcome was excactly the same.

          Illnesses like polio had almost vannished when the vaccination started. After an initial,smal rise (!) immediatly after the vaccination,the rate dropped to zero,as it would have done without the vaccine,anyway.But the governments and the Farmafia were claiming the victory,and still are,all on the use of vaccines.That is FRAUD!

          The flight attendant in coma (Mercola article) was a reason for the media to promote vaccination but they almost “forgot” to mention the fact that this attendant WAS vaccinated,and of course there was no mentioning at all about the probability that not the measles but the MMR vaccin was the cause of the attendant being in a coma (watch the Wakefield reading for a scientific explanation on this).

          Never before,in history,where the people sóóó sick,and medicated as today,in our modern society,with all their vaccines,and “the best medical care men can get”.When I was young(er ;-)) children with cancer were extremely rare,and we were told that cancer is an illness,almost exclusively found among the elder people.Almost,as if it was a symptom of being old.Today,people of all ages,young and old,die of cancer in numbers,never seen before.

          Causes? Well,let’s consider the fact that we are all daused in chemicals 24/7,we eat them,we use them as a medicine,and most of those artificial (not natural) substances are never tested for safety. “Medicines are”,you might say,but most of them are NOT tested by independant researchers.And time after time the contrary appears to be true:THEY ARE NOT SAFE,and way too often they even don’t work so well.

          In my opinion everybody has the right to put anything he wants in his body (be it vaccines,drugs,whatever) as long as the don’t endanger other people,and to refuse putting things they don’t want in their body as well;you’ll find tyhis in every constitution and it’s a basic right for everybody.So,when somebody wants to get vaccinated,let him/her,but keep them away from me because it’s getting clearer by the day that those who are recently vaccinated with an attenuated (weakened) virus are spreading this virus and infecting others.Virusses also have mechanisms to repair themselfs,as is so easily forgotten.Some scientists even warn that these vaccines can push nature to created even more dangerous virusses.

          I got the (few) vaccins that were in use when I was young,but the amount of vaccins,pumped in children who don’t have a(fully) develloped immune system is total madness.Don’t you agree?

        • L May 10, 2019 at 10:32 am

          Unfortunately Wakefield has been widely discredited, fair or not, so I try to never use his name regarding this issue. But there is still a great deal of information out there, like the fact that over $4 billion has been paid out to compensate victims from vaccine injury. If you do a search of the National Institutes of Health and vaccine injury, you will find many. (I have a long list but since I can only include one link here, I won’t post.) While there is zero proof that of herd immunity from vaccinations, there IS proof that immunity comes from those who naturally fight the measles. Poland & Jacobson (1994) reports on 18 different measles outbreaks throughout North America, occurring in school populations with very-high vaccination coverage for measles (71% to 99.8%). In these outbreaks, vaccinated children constituted 30% to 100% of measles cases.” (Kelly Brogan, MD.) I am going to copy and paste here a letter from a physician who formerly used to vaccinate routinely. “I am writing to you out of my concern for the health of our country’s children.
          I am a self-employed M.D. in private family practice for over 50 years. During these years I have carefully safeguarded my independence to be sure that only the experience gained from working directly with patients would influence my thinking, and not institutional or remunerative priorities.
          Like all physicians, I was unquestioningly pro-vaccine when I began practicing, and I administered vaccines. My patient population was by and large well-educated and health-conscious.
          I was surprised when I began to hear reports of adverse effects of vaccinations. As I had set up my practice to have no competing interests to the over-riding priority of directly serving the health of my patients, I began to impartially follow up and investigate claims of adverse effects of vaccines in the medical research literature. My private research of vaccine science began in 1973 and it is ongoing today. I have also served as an expert witness on vaccines in court proceedings where divorced parents disagreed on whether their children should be vaccinated.
          The growth of today’s “anti-vaccine movement” would not exist if vaccines were as safe and effective as we repeatedly hear. This movement has no funding source, no sponsors and no base outside of determined, answer-seeking parents of children who were normal until receiving a particular vaccination.
          In 1986, the U.S. congress passed into law the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act authorizing two federal programs, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). Since these 2 programs are seldom mentioned in the media, most parents and even many physicians are unaware that they exist. VAERS is a voluntary system. Physicians are not required to report adverse events following vaccinations, not even deaths. The U.S. government estimates that the majority of vaccine adverse events are unreported.
          Nevertheless, a study of the VAERS database, covering the ten-year period beginning January 1, 2004 shows that 96 deaths following the administration of the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine were reported in the U.S. During that same 10 year period, ending Dec 31, 2013, there were 7 deaths in the U.S. reported from measles. From the end of 2013 to the present time, there has been only one reported death from measles in the U.S., occuring in 2015.
          The Federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) functions as an adversarial legal process which denies two out of every three claims of vaccine injury. Nevertheless VICP has awarded over 4 billion dollars since 1988 to families of children whose deaths or injuries (including autism) were adjudicated to be directly vaccine-related.
          A basic human right enshrined by the U.N. and the constitution of Canada and many other countries is the right of informed consent to any medical procedure.
          As happened a few years ago after the cluster of measles cases in Disneyland, today there is again a co-ordinated national PR campaign to eliminate the right of informed consent and to make all vaccines mandatory.
          A sober assessment of the facts reveals that the very small percentage of unvaccinated children in the U.S. are no threat at all to the public health.
          The so-called anti-vaccine movement is composed not only of parents but of an increasing number of practicing physicians who, like me, have first-hand experience of children’s vaccine injuries and who are unattached and able and willing to report the truth as they see it.
          Finally, since the year 2000 there have been five medical research studies published in the U.S. medical research literature (but ignored by our mainstream media) which have documented that, when groups of vaccinated and unvaccinated childred are compared, the unvaccinated children have much less chronic illness and far fewer neurodevelopmental disorders like autism than vaccinated children.
          The above facts, and many more, can be corroborated by perusing the medical research literature, or by consulting the recent factual book by J.B. Handley, a Stanford-educated equity-firm manager and father of a vaccine-injured son, How to End the Autism Epidemic.
          In your participation in present and future legislative deliberations on questions of informed consent to vaccinations, and on questions of vaccine exemptions and mandates, I beg you to consider, and to have a staff member follow up on, the above very small sampling of readily available facts which call into serious question the fervent pro-vaccine stance of today’s media and medical institutions.
          Sincerely yours,”

          Philip Incao, M.D.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 10, 2019 at 11:05 am

          Thank you for this info,L. So many Dr’s and MD’s have spoken and written about the failing,and the misery caused by vaccin’s,and untill now the lies about the “successes” and the “safety” are told over and over again. They got a good reason; every vaccinated child becomes a customer for life,because of their heavily damaged immune systems. All,modern medicine seems to offer is poisons,frauds and lies.

          Many are turning their back to these chemical poisons and return to real medicines. Bayer has noticed this,and they are now trying to take over the natural medicines.In their commercials they present natural medicines like Iberogast and Iberolax,and they bought the exclusive rights for selling GW Pharmaceuticals’s Cannabis tinctures in the EU and Asia. In the USA,CBD was legaly sold untill “a farmaceutical company” showed interest in dowing so. Now it’s prohibited and you can only buy CBD legaly when a doctor prescribes you…..CBD oil,produced by GW Pharmaceuticals.

        • Virginia May 10, 2019 at 7:39 pm

          Lisa, as the moderator would you please moderate comments that are extremely anti – vaccine? Or maybe ban vaccine discussion altogether? I am on this site for my Cipro damage, not to read misinformation about vaccines. I am disturbed at recent comments that seem dangerously extremist against vaccines. Vaccines are a great modern medicine success story. Measles and other dangerous, highly infectious diseases were eradicated in this country until recently when those who refuse to vaccinate began spreading it again. Measles can cause encephalitis and death, and countless children died of this and other dangerous infectious diseases until modem vaccines.

        • L May 10, 2019 at 8:57 pm

          Virginia, wanting to inform people of health dangers is neither extreme nor dangerous. Quite the contrary. ONE person has died from measles in the US since 2013. A number have died and thousands have been injured from vaccines. You can check the government’s own website to see that over 4 billion has been paid out for vaccine injuries. I am sorry you are offended by the truth. Just as the FDA and Bayer and Johnson/Johnson have hid the truth about fluoroquinolones for decades, so have they hidden the truth about the danger of vaccines. If you want to compromise your immune system, be my guest. Get vaccinated. But you should not deprive others of valuable information. And this DOES tie in to fluoroquinolones, because those of us who have been floxed all already compromised. None of us needs toxic adjuvants like aluminum, thimerosal, GMOs, etc. The ONLY way to make informed decisions is to have ALL the information. https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/4-billion-and-growing-u-s-payouts-for-vaccine-injuries-and-deaths-keep-climbing/

        • L May 10, 2019 at 9:47 pm

          Just one more thing. I was reading a post the other day on FB from an anguished mother whose baby had died after a vaccination. How is her trauma or her warning others any less valid than you or I warning people about fluoroquinolones? (In fact, I have people get angry at me saying “they save lives! how dare you?” because they are just so completely ignorant of the devastation. I wouldn’t wish what happened to me on my worst enemy, it was so terrifying. And btw, just an aside…Japan has actually banned the MMR vaccine. They will give the shot separately if people want them, but there were just too many side effects for them to ignore.) This info is easy to find online. https://thevaccinereaction.org/2019/02/a-baby-died-after-vaccination/

      • Madge Hirsch May 11, 2019 at 7:47 am Reply

        Wakefield ‘s research partner has recently been fully vindicated in a court case in the UK in which the judge severely criticised the GMC who struck him and Wakefield off. Dr John Walker Smith won his appeal against being struck off and the judge quashed a GMC finding if professional misconduct.

        • L May 11, 2019 at 9:53 am

          Thanks, Madge. Good to know. I always suspected much of it was a set up. Still I avoid the name because it is like a feeding frenzy for those who want to attack.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2019 at 3:30 am

          Madge,that is great news,but the “Fraud” stamp will stick on him,and on Wakefield,for the rest of their lives.How many people know about this vindication? How many newspapers wrote about it?Did they show this news on television? Although I pay a lot of attention on this kind of news articles,I didn’t hear about this untill you told us.Do you have a link to the source of this news? And thank you for telling us;every bit of truth winning over lies is welcome!

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2019 at 3:40 am

          Well,I found it; here is one of the sources (quite handy when you know what to look for;I wouldn’t have found it without you,putting my attention on it.Thanks!):


        • L May 13, 2019 at 9:45 am

          Another source would be better if you can find it. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-millennium-report/

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2019 at 1:27 pm

          You’re right;Millenium Report isn’t the most reliable source in the world but they only reported on the vindication of Dr John Walker Smith. Other sources I found wrote the same thing,so,this time MR is to be trusted.

        • L May 13, 2019 at 9:47 am
  11. Andrea May 10, 2019 at 3:19 pm Reply

    Ok Henk, let me ask you another question, have you always had this opinion about medicine, or is it something that you developed after being poisoned by the FQ? Please be honest

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 11, 2019 at 3:14 am Reply

      Andrea,my bad experiences with “safe” medicines started years before being floxed;I had a lot of confidence before I had my hard wake up(s).It started when I realized that Losec,a medicine,pushed on me by my doc,was the reason that I started feeling tired 24/7,even being totaly exhausted every day at wake,a few years later,getting a terrible backpain right after getting out of bed,every day,and having terrible nightmares almost evrey night,sometimes more than one a night,at last I was scared to go to bed and fall asleep,because of all these nightmares.

      Then noises,started to annoy me in a strange way,and this went from bad to worse.I couldn’t listen to my most favorite music for more that 10 minute while,before,I listened to music whenever possible and was very glad with the introduction of MP3-players (although MP3 sounds bad; I prefer Flac and Ape :-)) And then,in 2004,I got an AB course with Metrodazole and Amoxicilline,which not only made me sick as hell but for over 3 years,but depleted my body of what was left of my magnesium.That’s when the heart arrythmia’s started,and those got worse and worse.

      At that time my favorite brother was diagnosed with leukaemia.He was tired and when he was ill,the recovery took much longer than usual,for about 1 1/2 year without worsening,but right after the diagnose they pushed him to go in hospital for “the treatment” THE SAME DAY” He had to argue with the “docs” to get permission to stay home for that weekend,with his wife and kid (boy,8 years old),to,at least,have a little time to say goodbye (they warned him for the dangers of “the treatment”). I was suprised: he had this illness for over 1 1/2 year,without any change,so,what’s the hurry??

      Later on I discovered that they use this tactic all the time,preventing CUSTOMERS from having a second opinion or searching for an alternative treatment.They managed to scare the hell out of him,so,he didn’t give this strange development in a second thought and even permitted the docs for an experiment: a much higher than usual dose of chemo (despite the extreme danger),to try if this might work (he had,so they told him,the extreme deadly and hard to cure Acute Myeloid Leukaemia,with a 15% survival rate after the normal treatment).He went through hell,in the next couple of weeks,and never recovered from the poisoning.Then came the radiation and he got my stemcells and t-cells.After a year the AML was back,and another medical mistake (which they admitted) he died.

      In the meantime I (re-)discovered the Bob Beck Protocol and after making the devices I used the Magnetic Pulser on my belly for 2 weeks,and,after 3 years of hearing my doc say “This has to get right of it’s own,in a natural way”,the diarrea,and the hyper/hypoglycemea were gone.I could eat usable amounts of (raw!) carbs again,but only in small amounts. When,after being floxed,these carb problems were back I waited for 1 month to see if things would turn back to “normal” (according to what my former doc said),but they didn’t.Well,I used my Magnetic Puilser once again (now I had the Sota MP),and once again it worked.

      During these years my other problems (tiredness,sleeping problems,nightmares,almost every night and a lot more,related to a severe magnesium defficiency,as I started to understand) got worse and worse,and in nov.2013 I was hurried to the hospital,twice in two weeks time,with severe heart arrythmia’s (I was got to the lighter ones,during the past 7-8 years).After the second time I stopped using Losec,and since then (until Cipro),I didn’t have heart arrythmia’s again.But “to be safe” I kept on using the Flecainide Acetate that was prescribed to me,the first time I was in the hospital.

      By the way,I had an argument with the heart specialist,the second time I was in the hospital,and he strongly objected to my idea of Losec/Omeprazole being the cause.The way het tried to convince me of the safety of Losec? An argument that really made me speachless: “Do you know how many people use Losec?” Well,this should be proof enough.Two month later the message that PPI’s like Losec could cause severe magnesium defficiency was in all newspapers,and even on televison some progs payed attention to this discovery.In fact,this “adverse reaction” to PPI’s was known since 2004,and I read about it in 2006,seven years before that specialist read it in the newspapers.

      The Flecainide Acetate caused very hard stools,in spite of the fact that there’s lots of fibers in my meals,and caused a double intestinal bleeding.I had a bladder infection at the same time,from a kidney stone which got stuck halfway from my bladder to the toillet pot.Had a fever and severe pain,and my doc “helped” me with a Cipro prescription,telling me that she actually shouldn’t because she just got a message that Cipro and Flecainide should not be given together.

      After the Cipro,once agian,I had to Help myself;my doc (the one that Cipro-poisoned me) was angy after I stopped “her” Macrogol to replace it with Psyllium fibers (“Are you “playing” (little!) doctor,again?”).The MPulser helped me with the severe carb sensitivity,once again,using the best Magnesium subs I can find and pay helped a lot,alhought I did use Magn.Citrate since around 2010,and still had to discover that PPI’s prohibit the magnesium-uptake of the cells.

      After the heart polptations (started within hours after the first Cipro pill) were almost gone (which took about a year),I got severe double vision prpblems;those are almost gone as well,since I use my MPulser on my eyes,every evening.I sometimes use my Brain Tuner as well;this helps my memory probles quite a bit,and myght assist the MP in stablizing my vision.The Water Ozonater gives me a bit of extra energy at the start of the day;might help on other levels/problems as well.

      Over the last 15 years I’ve read an enormous amount of info on the web,where I always tried to cross-check interesting facts I found,on other reliable sources.Together with my experiences over the last 20+ years this formed my opinion. Being a skeptic reader,I think this opinion has a solid base,Andrea.

      P.s. I won’t even try to convince Virginia of what I think of vaccin’s and other “medicines”; I KNOW this is impossible untill she wakes up.After all,it took me over 20 years,and misery to reform from a true believer (like she is,now),to a skeptic.I hope,she will wake up in time,before that “science based medicine” has brought too much damage to her health and body.

      • L May 11, 2019 at 9:19 am Reply

        Oh Henk, I am so sorry to hear about what your brother went through, and that you lost him. But yes, I have heard many times before about the “Rush” to get care so there is no time to get a second opinion or consider alternatives. This is used quite a bit with cancer patients (“You need surgery asap” “You need to start the chemo tomorrow.”) And because we were all brought up to trust in the system, many do so out of fear, because “the doctor must know best.” 😦

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2019 at 3:22 am

          Hi L.,actually it still suprises me that he accepted that diagnose,and the hurry from the “doc’s” to put the chemo in him.He was quite an intelligent guy (Drs. in sociology).He should have realized that there was no need for hurry because he had his symptoms for over 1 1/2 year.Didn’t get better,but didn’t worsen either.Should have made him suspicious about that diagnose,as well;he went to a lot of different doc’s and specialists but none could find the cause of his symptoms. AML was never,ever mentioned or suggested as a possible cause untill an internist who worked in the cancer specialized hospital where he sent him,and where they diagnosed and treated him. Maybe his trust in science worked against him.

          A few months after he died I found a blog from a doctor who had an interesting story about a nurse he met.She told him that she had AML (like my brother),and went through excactly the same treatment as my brother,but,probably,with the usual dose (the docs experimented on my brother,with extra high doses he went trough hell!). And,same as my brother,after a year the AML was back.While doc’s told my brother that doing the same treatment,over,again was useless,tis option was offered to the nurse but she went to an other hospital for a second opinion.

          There she was diagnoses with an infection of a micro fungus,and they treated her with antifungul medicines;she was in hospital for 2 months because these medicines are risky,and monitoring her while on this medication was absolutely neccesary,but after the treatment she was cured 100%,and when she and the doctor met it was years later,and she was still in good health,although not fully recovered from the chemo and radiation.Interesting fact;at the time she was diagnosed with AML she worked as a nurse in a hospital,specialized in children with cancer;many of them with blood cancer. Well, (1) if cancer is a mutation of cells,you can’t cure it with antifungicides.And (2) fungicidal infections are quite contagious. Add those two facts,and the 1 1/2 year my brother’s health didn’t worse together,and you know why I doubt my brother’s diagnose,and the treatment he got.

        • L May 13, 2019 at 9:40 am

          The frustration is not only the rush to treat, but the tunnel vision that it can only be treated with these toxins. That is all they are taught. No thinking outside the box. Ozone has been used to treat resistant fungal infections for decades. But then what can you expect when their training is based on pharmaceutical treatment, with nothing on natural cures and very little on nutrition. And it becomes such a never-ending circle of pharma treatment, “needing” a new one for each side effect that the last created. I have great respect for those doctors who finally see the light, and become integrative (and of course NDs who knew there was a better way begin with.)

      • Attsy May 12, 2019 at 12:44 am Reply

        Hi Henk,
        I am very sorry for what happened to your brother :(. Honestly there is no reason to persuade someone because before I needed help from the doctors I didn’t believe either. I heard numerous stories like this but believed that this only happens to others (because they didn’t treat doctors well, they were arrogant, not kind, too hysteric, well I was so wrong and I feel kind of guilt for thinking so).
        It started to change for me 4 years ago when I encountered numerous side effects from the vaccine I got and doctors had different opinions about it. One told me I should not take any more, the second I can calmly take the third shot. I am not completely against vaccination but I believe it is for people without compromised immune system/with no autoimmune disease.
        It’s scary to know that everyone can go through so much suffering with no real help.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2019 at 2:49 am

          Hi Attsy,that brother of mine died,aged 49 years old when he died;nine days before his 50th birthday.Four years later my youngest brother died,at the age of 50;he had a feeling of preasuer on his chest,sometime,and his girlfriend urged him to the doc,who gave him medication (don’t know what,or which,but statines were probably among them). I have one brother left,who is handicapt by a doc’s mistake,after he broke his wrist in the factory (GE Plastics;they got their own doc’s).

          My mother had astma,and after her doc started bombarding her with medication she developed a heart disease and a couple of other medical problems,while the list of medicines she “had to take” grew larger and larger.She died at the age of 57.

          I had my 65th birthday,last month (feel myself a SURVIVOR!),and untill a few years ago I should have been retired,but our government tells us everybody is getting older and older,which is a lie (I did extensive research on that;womens age is no longer rising,and men’s age is descending.Well,age of politicians and other rich and well educated might be still on the rise,but not the age of many,if not most simple workers!

          We’re living in the age of lies and desception,and it’s all for money and power.Our (dutch) Prime Minister even admitted in public that he’s convinced that telling lies is a neccesity in politics,and his party has made this into an art form;it’s hard to find any truth among all the lies they tell.Same goes for many scientists,and the mainstream media;there’s no money in telling the truth.

          The more intelligent people are,now,gowing back to the real medicines;the herbs and other natural substances that served us for millenea,untill the greedy alchemists started copying them to obtain lucrative patents.Exact copies might be the safest,but are not as lucrative as modified copies of the original,natural substances because you can’t patent those molecules,but only the process by which they’re made.Same technic is used by makers of synthetic,recreative drugs;change the molecule a bit,and it’s not on the list of forbidden substances anymore.Money,money,money;Abba was damn right, in the 70’s!

        • L May 13, 2019 at 8:42 am

          and you can add to that deception with 5G that they are now forcing on us. What a nightmare this is. Warnings from a couple hundred scientists around the world, but they are pushing ahead anyway.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2019 at 12:07 pm

          And the “Global Warming”,which stopped 18 years ago. The’ve renamed it to “Climate Change” ,well;climat change is here as long as earth excists.In fact,we are going to a very cold period,just like Russian scientists told us sinds years,but we still pay energy taxes for a global warming that’s not coming,and a climate change that’s been there since the earth has it’s atmosphere.

        • L May 13, 2019 at 3:16 pm

          Yikes. Well, I really don’t want to go into a whole discussion of climate change here, but I will say it is the most urgent threat humanity faces. 99% of the world’s scientists agree and the other 1% work for the gas, coal and oil industry. There is no dispute at this point; and minor variations in weather patterns have nothing to do with it—the earth is indeed warming overall, and we have a very short timeframe within which to turn this around.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 14, 2019 at 2:31 am

          L.,the official number isn’t 99%,but 97%,and the way they created this number is enough to have doubt on the climate warming hypothesis.And tens of thousands of scientists don’t believe in this hoax,and the fact that we,and CO2 caused the warming up (that’s absent,now,for 18 years!). Do your research,please,and read what BOTH party’s have to tell us,not just the “officials”.

      • Andrea May 12, 2019 at 2:32 pm Reply

        Henk, here’s my take on vaccines/modern medicine/doctors : I still belive in science and medicine. I still think that, if you’re seriously ill, you need to take your medicines. I also know that, sometimes, even a common infection, can become very dangerous if not treated correctly. With that being said, I also know that medicine, doctors and drugs, are not perfect. Drugs can be extremely dangerous, and you should only use them as a last resort. But here’s an example, to let you understand my point : think of the past, when there weren’t antibiotics or anything else, you would die for even a small wound, if it get infected. You’d have to cut one of your limb and so on..this doesn’t mean that today, most doctors are completely clueless and even dangerous, with their ingorance, or that medicine is just safe, but let’s be reaI, antibiotics, vaccines and so on, made us live longer and probably better. Yeah, of course they’re not perfect, they can be extremely dangerous and misused (see FQs) .
        I completely disagree with you (or anyone else) , when you say that there’s no proof that modern medicine is effective ( you wrote something like that in another post), and it’s all a big conspiracy by Big Pharma. Of course pharmaceutical companies are evil and only care about the profits, but saying that you don’t need drugs, ever, it’s just too unreal for me. Today medicine is far from being perfect, but it’s still soemthing we can all benefit from it (if done correctly). Since being floxed, I’ve always said this : ” I still belive in official medicine, I don’t trust the ones who apply it (or at least the way they’re applying it)”. I also don’t really belive in naturopathy or anything like that. I mean, yeah, soemtimes, certain approaches (supplements, alternative treatments like the sota pulser etc) can be effective, but not everyone can benefits from them. For example, I’ve tried that magnetic tesla chair, and it only worsen my situation. I also can’t belive, for example,that you can beat cancer with some root…
        My mother, a doctor, always said to me that a pharmaceutical drug, a medicine, without any side effect, can’t be considered a drug, and whoever is telling you “this so and so drug, doesn’t have any side effect”, is lying to you or is just ignorant. So of course you’ve got to be careful and really think about the pros and cons before taking anything.
        Sorry, I’d like to express myself better, but my poor english doesn’t allow me to do better.

        • Attsy May 12, 2019 at 10:36 pm

          Andrea, I understand your point of view. But I think many people stopped believing the doctors because they simply could not help them or didn’t even try…..In my case like in 90% if they give me some medicine they claim, it has no side effect and when I open the medical note at home there are so many side effects….They withdrew the information that benzos are addictive from me and trazodone can make you fall asleep (isn’t this a sleeping pill?). When I finally asked I was told it’s a nonsense. They suspected numerous illnesses which I didn’t have in the end and prescribed me some medication (claiming nothing would happen if I would not have the illness) then coming home and realizing that there is even better medicine with less side effects available on the market for the illness they suspected I had. If I worry about something they brush it off, they push me to get vaccination (and I had many of them due to this propaganda), hormonal contraception (which I can’t take), sometimes even force me to buy the medicine directly in their office or giving me medical samples to try. They was even not able to diagnose celiac disease for years even when I have all the typical symptoms, then I had to diagnose myself and push my opinion and made them angry…..I won’t even mention FQ ATB because I would get angry again.
          If this will continue I will maybe start to have extreme opinion about the doctors and pharma too.

        • L May 13, 2019 at 8:39 am

          And then add to that the ridicule. “oh, where did you get that information from? Dr Google?” hey, guess what. “Dr. Google” saved my life. And even since the cipro poisoning I have solved things thanks to “Dr google” that the doctors have been unable to. I think part of the problem is arrogance. That is why I appreciate integrative MDs. They KNOW that finding more natural, less harmful solutions is always the better way when possible.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2019 at 1:29 pm

          You wrote: I completely disagree with you (or anyone else) , when you say that there’s no proof that modern medicine is effective ( you wrote something like that in another post), and it’s all a big conspiracy by Big Pharma.

          Well: I wrote there’s mounting proof that synthetic drugs aren’t as effective as the natural medicines they were based on,and that the natural ones have less,if any adverse reactions. Didn’t write that there isn’t any proof the synthetic medicines are effective.Please,read my writings more carefully,if you want to comment on those.

          Another thing you wrote”:I also don’t really belive in naturopathy or anything like that. I mean, yeah, soemtimes, certain approaches (supplements, alternative treatments like the sota pulser etc) can be effective, but not everyone can benefits from them. For example, I’ve tried that magnetic tesla chair, and it only worsen my situation.”

          I’ve explained why you can’t compare the Sota Pulser and that Tesla Chair (Sota is magnetic PULSES,where thet Tesla chair is magnetic WAVES,and I explained why magnetic pulses work,and that I was pretty shure the waves would not.Like comparing apples and oranges! So;it’s not because not everyone can benefit,but,not everyone chooses for the most effective treatment.And I advised you to build a magnetic pulser ,yourself,or with help of a handy neighbour or friend,and explained how to do it,for €30-40.Your Tesla Chair experiment will probably have cost you (quite?) a bit more.

          By now you will know how much benefit many of us had with magnesium supplementation,and other supplements and remedies,in recovering from being floxed.I had more than one bad experiences with modern “medicines”,and time after time it were alternative remedies which helped me regain most of my health. I don’t like the word alternative for remedies that are many centuries,or even millenea old;that word better fits the 150-200 years old “orthodox” alopathic remedies,with synthetic/chemical substances.This “switching of titles” is mainly meant to bring confusion,and to make people think that allopathic,(synthetic) medicines were always there,and medical herbs and other natural remenies are a new trend.

          You’re oké with mandatory vaccins? Well I’m NOT! There is a reason our constitutions forbid just that! This is called: Sovereignty of the human body!

      • Madge Hirsch May 15, 2019 at 3:07 am Reply

        I can’t remember where I read it but if you put in a search with his name you will find it.

  12. Andrea May 12, 2019 at 2:34 pm Reply

    Oh, and another thing, regarding vaccines. In most countries they’re mandatory, and I’m ok with it, but then, they should make way more reserches on the side effects.

  13. Henk Noordhuizen May 13, 2019 at 1:37 am Reply
    • Andrea May 13, 2019 at 6:21 pm Reply

      Henk, couldn’t find the reply button to your last comment, so I’m answering you here.
      Anyway this would be me my last comment on vaccines or to any other subject, unless it isn’t direclty related to FQs. As someone pointed out, this is a site to share useful infos on FQ toxicity and to find some help, so it’s probably wise to just stick to that subject. Anyway, I agree somehow with you. I know that modern medicine, official medicine, call it whatever you want, it’s not perfect. I know it’s a huge, huge business and there’re greedy people behind it. I know that most of the times, we shouldn’t follow medical advices like It was God’s word. I know medicine it’s not perfect. I know drugs aren’t just safe, as most doctors try to let us think. Today it seems there’s a magical pill for anything. But still, do you know how many diseases medicines, antibiotics, vaccines cured, stopped from spreading etc? Like I wrote earlier, think about the past. Yes, sure today we’re pushing the limits and we’re definetely abusing medicines. But for example , things like antibiotics, can save your life. You seem very anti-vaccines, and you mentioned sovergnity of the human body. But, I remind you that we live in a society. As unperfect as It is, but still the society we all share. So mandatory vaccines, from my point of view, it’s like putting a mandatory helmet when you ride a bike, or not being allowed to run as fast as you like while driving on a public road. If you read again my previous comment, I also wrote, that they should study way more deeply the side effects of vaccines, since there’re many… That’s just what I think. Our society, is far from being perfect. Lots of greed, lots of ignorant people who should really step back and learn about respect and care (talking about doctors now), but let’s just don’t fall in that trap where we start to belive in anything that goes against the “official version”. Sorry, I don’t mean to offend you, trust me, but this is the idea I get, when you start talking about certain subjects. You seem to be a very smart man. Way smarter than me, and, even at 65 (I mean it with respect) with lots of curiosity for new things. But sometimes, I think you belive in things or claims that don’t have any real foundation behind it. Sorry, if something I wrote or I’m writing here offends you, but I always try to be sincere, expecially with people who share this unfortunate journey with me…

  14. Henk Noordhuizen May 14, 2019 at 3:16 am Reply

    Why are people who are fully vaccinated,so afraid of those,unvaccinated? Is it,because so many vaccinated people get the diseases they’re vaccinated against? Now they need a booster shot,and another one,because,whèn vaccines work,they work for only a short while,in contrary to the immunity from having had the real disease. And unvaccinated people are only a risk for other unvaccinated people,when those vaccins give real protection.

    I dó think being aware of the dangers of vaccins is very important for Floxies because of the neurotoxic substances that are added (Thimerosal,which contains a Mercury,Aluminium,MSG,and it wouldn’t suprise me if Fluorid would be added in the future,to “fortify” failing vaccines).

    The nerves of many of us,Floxies, are damaged already;I,for myself,want to be very carefull with what’s left of my nerve system after being floxed!

  15. Henk Noordhuizen May 14, 2019 at 5:03 am Reply

    On Mercola,today,about the rediculous way of “testing” vaccine safety and efficiency:


    How dare one call this “Science”?

  16. Henk Noordhuizen May 14, 2019 at 5:09 am Reply

    Here the mentioned video with Del Bigtree (the link was missing in Mercola’s article:

    • L May 14, 2019 at 9:20 am Reply

      Thanks. Started watching. (Sadly, because of the length, those that really SHOULD watch this won’t.)

    • Attsy May 14, 2019 at 10:00 am Reply

      Hi Henk, I am going to watch it too. I am more and more scared that if something like with FQ antibiotics will happen to me again I am dead. I will never be able to understand that this society is so greedy and people just want money and don’t care at all about others.

    • Andrea May 14, 2019 at 12:55 pm Reply

      Ok…but you still didn’t answer my question. Do you know how many diseases medicines, vaccines in this case, eradicated? Do names like polio, rinderpest, smallpox, malaria, just to name a few, ring a bell? Oh well, that’s probably just big pharma propaganda,right?
      (Still, I don’t mean vaccines are completely safe or side effects free, but at least let’s look at history and FACTS)

      • L May 14, 2019 at 3:56 pm Reply

        Actually polio was mostly eradicated by the time the vaccine came along, from better hygiene and sanitation. And some continuing cases were just renamed (eg guilluame barre) https://thevaccinereaction.org/2015/07/polio-wasnt-vanquished-it-was-redefined/

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 15, 2019 at 2:55 am

          And there was the Polio-DDT link:


          This page also shows the graphics that show the Polio vaccin was used at the end of the epidemic,when Polio was almost eradicated.Notice the small RISE in the graphic,right after the vaccination.And the strong rise after the war,when DDT was introduced and used on an extremely large scale in our society,untill,a few years later,when the use of DDT,and the rate of Polio cases started to decline.

    • Andrea May 14, 2019 at 1:16 pm Reply
      • Henk Noordhuizen May 14, 2019 at 2:22 pm Reply

        No,of course I do not know who Louis Pasteur is;are you joking? You’d better read the book “The private science of Louis Pasteur” by Gerald L. Gleison.with a much more honest picture of Pasteur than the popular one.Very interesting info came from Pasteur’s own labratory books,which Pasteur had forbidden to publish,but recently they were published anyway.And Pasteur had a good reason,not to publish them!

        As for vaccins: don’t try to convince me with industrial propaganda,and present that as facts.Do your research,and read what the opposers have to tell you. Those are not all morons and lunatics, and many have done serious research!

        Polio had almost disappeared when vaccins came around.This mass-vaccination slowed down the NATURAL disappearing of polio.This is proven by the original data and statistics.

        The smallpox vaccin has made a lot of victims,in Great britain and the US.The US people were lured into going for the vax by fea rmongering them with photographs of victims.Later on,it was discovered that those victims were victims of the industry,not of the disease itself;their symptoms were vaccin induced!

        Malaria vaccin? The only excisting malaria vaccins have a very modest efficiency;there’s no reliable vaccin against malaria,yet:


        This is the last time I write about vaccins; discussing these kind of things with someone who’s not willing to read both sides of the story is,in my eyes,utterly useless.

        • Andrea May 14, 2019 at 2:44 pm

          All right…anyway just for the record, never tried to convince you about anything, I really don’t care about it. 🙂 I was just trying to understand why you belive so much in certains “proofs” and not the other ones. When I asked you if you knew who Louis Pasteur was, I was ironic, but as a matter of fact, I was trying to understand how someone who knows who he was, can still ignore or deny the benefits humanity had from people like him and their discoveries. And another thing, when you write “discussing these kind of things with someone who’s not willing to read both sides of the story is,in my eyes,utterly useless” we can defenetly agree on this one, since I feel the same when discussing this topic with you. Peace.

  17. Attsy May 14, 2019 at 8:28 am Reply

    Hi guys, according to your experience, do you drink some herbal tea? Does it help? Today I ordered 12 different herbs from the internet, I will just try to mix them and drink it. I am curious if this could help for example with stomach cramps or digestion. I know that some of you drink borage, I have it but for some reason it seems to do nothing for me.

    • L May 14, 2019 at 9:46 am Reply

      It really depends. They all have different properties and effects. You need to research each one. EG Turmeric ginger tea should help with digestion and inflammation, among other things. AS for how effective they are I think it varies. I had read that passion flower tea was supposed to help with sleep, but it made no difference for me.

      • Attsy May 14, 2019 at 10:02 am Reply

        thanks, let’s see, if nothing happens then at least I will drink more with so many herbs at home 🙂

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 14, 2019 at 10:33 am

          Hi Attsy,tea,black,green,and,my favorite,white tea was my main drink before being floxed.I had 2 relapses,since,one time from a black tea/fruit mix,and the first relapse was of Pu Erh tea,known to be low in fluoride.

          Now I’m mainly drinking herb/spice tea,like ginger/curcumin,hybiscus,and cammomila.These three tea’s are very tasty and healthy.Now the new garden season started,and in my garden I have several mint variety’s,lemon balm and plantain (which I also use for musquito bites;best remedy in the world for that!).

          None of these have given me any problems.Experiment with different tastes,and smells;as long as there’s no fluorid in it,they’re perfectly safe.If possible,grow them yourself;mint,lemon balm,and some others are tasting best when used fresh. You can also use cinnamon and some other spices to make your tea even tastier.

          Nettle tea is a not the best tasting tea in the world but it cleans the blood.A bit of honey makes the taste a lot better.Don’t drink this one too often,otherwise it gives you an itchy skin.And always boil for at least 10 minutes to brake down the burning substance in the nettles.A nettle soup is one of the tastiest soups I know;make it with fresh nettles;not with dries leaves;those are better used for making tea.

        • Attsy May 14, 2019 at 11:24 pm

          Hi Henk, thank you for the nettle soup tip, looks delicios! I am actually looking forward to mix the herbs and make the tea (don’t know even why). I didn’t even know that some tea can contain fluoride. Well fortunately mine don’t :).

  18. Dee May 14, 2019 at 11:06 am Reply

    Question??? I am long overdue for a colonoscopy and endoscopy. I should have had it done 3 years ago at age 60. I got floxed 2 years ago and probably recovered 80/85% so far?? Mainly gut related issues and some tinnitus still dealing with. I am scared to death of general anesthesia for the procedure. Anyone gone under general anesthesia and or have any knowledge how Floxies do with it???

    • L May 14, 2019 at 4:27 pm Reply

      Hey Dee, again with the caveat that we are all different, I got one and had no issues, and you know how bad I was. A couple things though. If you have no history of issues, and have no hemoroids or anything that might cause bleeding you could do that home test kit. You get a prescription from your doctor and it is sent to your home. You fill this tub with your poop, then mail it back to some poor guy at the other end who opens it! (cologuard) I did this , but unfortunately got a false positive and had to have the colonoscopy anyhow…so all it did was worry me for a few weeks unnecessarily. Still, might be worth a shot.

      I would be MORE concerned about the prep stuff which is disgusting and which is not healthy for your gut. https://www.drweil.com/health-wellness/body-mind-spirit/gastrointestinal/colonoscopy-worry-missing-microbiome/

      • Madge Hirsch May 15, 2019 at 10:35 am Reply

        I have had 3 colonoscopies since being floxed.with Propofol. Had no problems .

    • Virginia May 14, 2019 at 7:43 pm Reply

      Hi Dee, yes we all respond differently, but the good news is that general anesthesia is rarely needed for colonoscopy and endoscopy, just sedation. I’ve had both, and responded very well to the colonoscopy sedation. My only problem with the endoscopy sedation was nausea to one of the sedation agents, probably fentanyl. But I had no long-term reactions. I too would do Cologuard if my dr. permits it.

  19. Dee May 15, 2019 at 7:19 am Reply

    Virgina and L, thank you for your feedback on general anesthesia! It is a coincidence that my son is actually a sales rep for Cologuard and I am doing that test as we speak! I do still need to get an endoscope though and “if” my cologuard test came back positive (fingers crossed it doesn’t) I still need to eventually need to get my throat scoped as I have had acid reflux for years and even the beginning of Barrett’s so need to do the scope unfortunately. I never knew there was a difference between general anesthesia and sedation??? I guess I thought it was all the same general anesthesia!!?? If that is the case I hope I would tolerate sedation a lot better?? Do you know if sedation is flourine based as is general anesthesia?? I’m sorry you had a false positive on your colon test L. I do know that happens now and then. The good news is it was “false”!! How long had both of you been floxed before the procedure was done? Thank you again for your feedback!!! Appreciated!!!!

    • L May 15, 2019 at 10:32 am Reply

      I was somewhere between three and four years post floxing when I had the procedure. I have had local anesthesia several times and then whatever it is they give for the colonoscopy and have not had any issues with either. Again, with the colonoscopy I would be vigilant about probiotics, fermented foods (unless you have mast cell issues) to help your gut since the prep stuff wipes out good microbiome. That’s the worst part of it. BTW I know it’s not the same as having a camera put down your throat, but I had one put down my nose and as claustrophobic as I am, I thought I would freak out, but it really wasn’t that bad actually. He just used a bit of numbing spray and I chose to forego the anesthetic

    • Attsy May 15, 2019 at 12:21 pm Reply

      Hi Dee, I had only gastroscopy and got both – throat spray and light analgosedation. I had no problem with it. Remember nothing, had no side effects, rested for 30 minutes there. Though I would not choose GA for colonoscopy, only analgosedation – it can be deep or light (it’s more gentle to the body and you can leave after 2 hours after the procedure if you choose the deep one).

    • Virginia May 15, 2019 at 5:28 pm Reply

      Dee, I don’t know if sedation is fluorione-based. My colonoscopy was 4 years before I was floxed, and my endoscopy 4 years after.

  20. Attsy May 15, 2019 at 1:16 pm Reply

    Have you noticed that the video with that ibalgin advice was removed? Just wanted to look at it today again and it’s gone :D!

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 15, 2019 at 1:23 pm Reply

      Attsy,do you know the title of that movie? Sometimes it’s reposted by an other YouTuber;maybe a google search helps.

      • Attsy May 15, 2019 at 1:47 pm Reply

        Henk, I don’t know, I was happy that finally we had some words which a lot of people can read online and also they can get here and now it’s gone and I am trying to remember but I didn’t download the video nor saved the title :/ because I didn’t think they would took it down.

      • Attsy May 15, 2019 at 3:11 pm Reply

        Yes :/, I am dissapointed that they did it. They probably don’t want other people to be informed with correct info….

    • Andrea May 15, 2019 at 3:08 pm Reply

      Oh Attsy, I just read your comment now, I think we’re talking about the same video…LOL

      • Attsy May 15, 2019 at 3:12 pm Reply

        Yes the same one, I Called IT Ibalgin video :D!!

  21. Andrea May 15, 2019 at 3:06 pm Reply

    LOL, I’ve just noticed that the video I posted a couple of weeks ago, with that nurse giving “awesome” advices, on how to treat FQ induced toxicity, like taking ibuprofen,has been removed from YouTube…Probably we left so many negative comments and so many thumbs down in so little time that they decided to delete it. Well that’s just good, let’s keep informing people about the dangers of these drugs and expecially let’s keep discrediting these so called “experts”.

    • L May 15, 2019 at 3:09 pm Reply

      I also contacted that site that posted it and said it was tantamount to medical malpractice and gave them links to floxie hope’s resource page so they could inform themselves. 🙂

      • Andrea May 16, 2019 at 1:16 am Reply

        Well done!

        • L May 16, 2019 at 9:35 am

          Thanks. I was jus so furious. I imagine that it why the video is no longer available. It’s bad enough to give unhelpful advice…but to encourage the use of something that could actually worsen your condition, is just so wrong

    • Angela ashton May 16, 2019 at 3:07 am Reply

      here is another controversial subject/drug . benzos. very similar to the fluoroquinolones re the damage they do


  22. Dee May 15, 2019 at 3:34 pm Reply

    Thank you all for your feedback on sedation during a colonoscopy or endoscopy!! Hopefully if and when I need one I will have a good outcome like you all did!!!! Your positive responses gives me a lot of hope!!!!
    L, how is your tinnitus doing?? Is it getting quieter for you?? Hope so!!!!

    • L May 15, 2019 at 4:02 pm Reply

      No, damn it! In fact there are times when it is so deafeningly loud I was to scream. No peace and quiet. How about yours?

  23. Dee May 15, 2019 at 5:36 pm Reply

    L, I’m sorry your tinnitus has not calmed down for you☹️ My “pulsating” tinnitus has slowly become more quiet. Mine was brought on very quickly and intensely by a half mg of melatonin about 3 months into my floxing. My Doc thinks because my Gaba receptors were damaged that they had a hyper opposing reaction to the melatonin. I had horrible tinnitus come on within a day that roared and throbbed like a jet engine for months! My “guess” is since Gaba receptors can repair and heal that as they are repairing my tinnitus will improve and hopefully disappear!! I figure it may take 3/4 years for Gaba receptors to repair???? Keeping my fingers crossed!! I feel lucky to have recovered 85-90% in about 2 years. I still need some repair and healing for my gut and tried everything! Still wake up pretty early with multiple bathroom runs. My stomach is in overdrive every morning. I figure maybe autonomic nervous system in my digestive system still a little haywire?? Also need leaky gut and microbiome repair I’m sure? Already take probiotics. Not sure weather to try colostrum it maybe Restore, bone broth?? So many products to consider!!?? Any suggestions?? I hope your tinnitus starts to quiet down for you! Don’t give up hope!!

    • L May 15, 2019 at 6:11 pm Reply

      That’s so odd because I had read about taking 5 or 6 mg of melatonin to help STOP tinnitus. I was so excited, but I took 1 three mg pill and had awful night terrors which I found out were a possible side effect. So there goes that. I suspect, although of course I don’t know, that mine is from nerve damage, since I had so much body wide nerve damage, so not sure there is any hope for that. (but I keep looking)
      As for your gut (unless you have mast cell issues) fermented foods would be a great addition as well as bone broth.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 16, 2019 at 1:56 am Reply

        L.,I think that using the lowest dose of melatonine for good sleep is the best way to use it.I sleep wel on o,5-0,8 mg. It varies;at the moment I need 0,8 to sleep well;when I don’t drink too much before going to bed I sleep 6-7,sometimes 8 hours in one row!

        I never heard or read of melatonine being able to stop tinnitus;the only remedy I ever read of was Magnesium (a mag. defficiency is a known cause of tinnitus). But for this you’ll need the Magnesium L-threonate; it’s the only form which easily passes the blood/brain barrier.You might give that a try.


        • L May 16, 2019 at 9:46 am

          I wasn’t using it for sleep. The 6 mg was recommended as a treatment for tinitis. I had read a study where it said there was improvement with 6mg. Can’t find that one now, but here is one that talks about 3 mg. Anyhow, like I said, I had night terrors at 3. Maybe someday I will try 1 mg and work my way up and see if I can do it that way. http://doctormurray.com/tinnitus-can-melatonin-stop-the-ringing/

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 16, 2019 at 10:40 am

          I think the magnesium and taurine are a better option than melatonin,which is,after all, ment to make you sleepy.Research on melatonin for tinnitus show mixed results,as far as I remember.

          Ces and PEMF are two completely different technics.

        • L May 16, 2019 at 5:03 pm

          I was on both taurine and mag in fairly high quantities. No change

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 12:37 am

          L. your posts do appear;I see tme twice.The original,and your complaints,and repeatings of your message.

          As for the tinnitus: have you tried the “trick” of that commentator on Mercola? This could at least give you moments of silence.Here is it,and other commentators have tried it and they agree that it really works:

          “simple, free, try it now: 1- place palms of hands over your ears. 2- rest fingers on the back of your head. 3- point middle fingers toward each another. 4- place index fingers on top of middle fingers, and 5- SNAP/THUMP them (the index fingers) against skull. 6- repeat. please share with all, how this works for you. even temporary relief is precious.”

          That’s all! You can use this “trick” everywhere. And for a permanent solution there’s still the CES to try.

        • L May 17, 2019 at 9:50 am

          That is so bizarre because I am only seeing them once…even if I go back and do a search. how odd. And yes I tried that trick long ago. The effect was less than a second.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 9:54 am

          Sorry,to hear that it didn’t work for you.You might try it again,every once and a while;maybe things changed.

          I do see those messages twice,first the original one,and then the one where you complain that it didn’t show up,and repeat the message.Don’t know about the others;maybe they can let you know if they see them both as well,like I do.

        • L May 17, 2019 at 9:51 am

          I am only seeing them once, even if I search for them. very odd. and now this may be a duplicate too. maybe I will just take a break from here. And yes I tried that trick. It lasted less than a second.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 10:25 am

          Then,the last posibility I know of is CES. Maybe you can find a way to try this without having to buy a CES device yourself.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 10:35 am

          I just posted a reply to you,L. and it lasted quite a while.Kept haning on E-Junk dot com,first,then on facebook,and then…it didn’t show up.Just curious what happens with this one,and if the other one shows up,in the end.

          My reply was, that the only possibility that I know of,that’s left for you,is CES. Try to find somebody with adevice and ask if you might try it.

        • L May 16, 2019 at 9:50 am

          weird, I just posted and it didn’t show up. anyhow I wasn’t using it for sleep. I was using it for tinnitus. I had read a study where they used 6 mg. I couldn’t even do 3. here’s another article where they talk about using 3. maybe I will try some day to start with one and work up and see if I have the same reaction. http://doctormurray.com/tinnitus-can-melatonin-stop-the-ringing/

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 16, 2019 at 2:07 am Reply

        Dee,in that Mercola article he also mentions Taurine.And in the comments a guy (gtriber) mentions a simple but very effective technique to temperary lessen the noise.Other commentors tried it and are enthousiastic about it. Although it only works temperory,it’s for free,and you can use it everywhere you go.

      • Attsy May 16, 2019 at 2:15 am Reply

        Hi L, have you tried ginko biloba? I don’t have tinitus but my grandfather does and he takes these pills – https://www.buyonlineventolin.com/alzheimer-s-disease/tebokan/tebokan-intens-120-mg-30-tablets-ingredient-ginkgo-biloba-extract.html and says it helps him. But of course I don’t know if it really works.

        • L May 16, 2019 at 9:56 am

          Hmmm. Interesting. You know I have taken ginko before in the past (can’t remember why) but I think I will give it a try. Couldn’t hurt. Thanks.

        • Attsy May 16, 2019 at 12:32 pm

          Well L, have you tried some sound therapy when the noise is unberable? Maybe listening to low volume music, or some noises like white noise….Or maybe some special hearing aid might help (maybe it could cover the noise you hear?)?

        • L May 16, 2019 at 5:06 pm

          I actually hear it over what ever I am listening to

        • Attsy May 16, 2019 at 10:51 pm

          L, I am so sorry, it has to be very very annoying :(.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 16, 2019 at 4:14 am Reply

        L., I read,in the comments on the Mercola page about tinnitus that a guy “Xanthone” had good results with CES. Well;I had a light form of sinnitus,even before getting floxed (might be due to the Losec I used for 15 years,resulting in severe magn.deficiency). I had a nasty beep in my ears,sometimes,but most of the time they were gone in less than a minute,sometimes they lasted few minutes. They didn’t boder me that much.

        Since a month I’m using my Sota Bio Tuner (originally calld Brain Tuner;it’s a CES device),and as soon that I read that comment I realized I didn’t have any beep since I (re-)started using my Brain Tuner. The reason I started using it again,after being floxed,was because my memory got a punch from that poison,and here it helps as well. And it makes me feel more relaxed and less depressive.Might have even helped restore my eyes from double vision,although I think the Magnetic Pulser and,maybe,the constant supplementation with different Magn. suplements,and zinc did help here as well.

        There’s lots of info on CES on the web; iot;s very popular,today.I did use my Braintuner a while after I bought it,years ago,then forgot about it,and I’m happy to have re-started using it again;it’s quite usefull :-))

        • L May 16, 2019 at 10:02 am

          Not familiar with CES but my ND used a PEMF device on me many times. I suspect it would not make a difference but thanks for the suggestion.

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 16, 2019 at 1:40 am Reply

      Dee,have you tried the combination of Lactospore (Bacillus coagulans) and Inulin? That worked miracles for me and even after I finished my Lactospore bottle,several month ago,my stool is quite stable.You might give it a try.

      • L May 16, 2019 at 9:41 am Reply

        ANd now that you mention that, it reminded me of something else to look into—saccharomyces boulardi https://articles.mercola.com/vitamins-supplements/saccharomyces-boulardii.aspx

        • Andrea May 16, 2019 at 4:00 pm

          Be carefoul L! saccharomyces boulardi is the one thing the messed up my GI system.
          Since being floxed, the only thing that really never bothered me was my GI. Never exeperienced irregular bowel movements. But last december, I made the stupid choice to try this probiotic I found in a health food store in my town. It was mainly SB, wich by the way is a yeast, so technically not really a robiotics, as far as I know, plus a couple of others probiotics. I tried it not because I had bowels problems, but because I’ve been always told that probiotics are just good for you in so many aspects. The problem is that SB, is moslty used to treat diarreha. I’m talking about REAL diarreha, like the one you catch drinking third world countries tap water…After just 3-4 days of 2 capsules a day of this probiotic, I was extremely bloated and costipated, something I’ve never experienced with oher probiotics (lactobacillus and bifidum bacterium), and I’m still experiencing lots of trouble in there… It is now very hard for me to digest fibers (whole grains,veggies) . and I developed symptoms of IBS, all thanks to that damn “probiotic”. So be careful of what you try and what your symptoms are. I’ve found out, the hard way, that not all probiotics are created equal. Right now I’m taking garden of life “one daily man” 50 billions 15 strains and the Lactospore (bacillus coagulans) Henk suggested a while ago. There’s no bacillus coagulans in those 15 strains mix of garden of life. I’m taking it, because, after following Henk’s suggestion, I’ve read that it should be one of the few probiotics that, not only survive the digestive sytem, but also recolonize the gut flora.

        • L May 16, 2019 at 5:09 pm

          I am not taking it now but had no problem with it. Like anything else, it helps some, and not others.

        • L May 16, 2019 at 5:12 pm

          WEird. Happened again. I posted and it didn’t “take.” Anyhow, I am not taking it now, but it helped me. Like everything else, it works for some and not for others.

        • Andrea May 16, 2019 at 4:14 pm

          And now that I’m here, here’s another awful thing I’ve noticed about being a floxie : the inability of my body to regenerate himself properly, after some trouble. I’ll give a couple of examples : one is this Saccharomiyes boulardi. A couple of friends of mine have taken it, before me, here in Italy is also sold as a over the counter supplement under the name COdex, and they experienced, just like me, gas and constipation, but after giving it up, they returned to normal. I’m still experiencing problems since december…another time, almost 2 years ago, I’ve tried Mirabegron, to try to stop my overactive bladder symtoms, but it only gave me urinary retention, so I gave it up, after only one day of use, but after that only experience, I started to develop chronic pelvic pain. Another example is my skin. After5 or 6 months after being floxed, out of the blue, the skin of my hands became very “old” full of wrinkles and flabby….disgusting. Anyway now, I’ve noticed that, if I cut my self, not even cut, even if the cat scratch me on my hands, the scratch leave a little scar on my skin, that doesn’t go away. In my opinion these are proofs that FQ gives you symptoms of immuno defcency or at least really destroyes your immune system….Let me think what do you think, it’s very important to read your opinion on this one…

        • L May 16, 2019 at 5:17 pm

          Well as far as the skin…it wrecked mine too. But I think that is because it can destroy all connective tissue, including collagen. The rest? I have no idea. That it can either create or unleash autoimmune disease I think is connected to all that. The body just does not respond as it’s supposed to. Perhaps Mast cell activation plays a part. Your body just does not react as a normal body would, and it’s “all systems on alert” even though there is no real danger.

        • Attsy May 16, 2019 at 11:11 pm

          Andrea and L, my body also regenerates very slowly. I also get cystical acne after I was floxed, my skin looks grey, got wrinkles and simply weird without make up. I get red blotches on my skin from time to time. When I have some tooth job done, the wound takes like 3 times longer to heal than before. I can also say that I was able to tolerate pain well now I am over sensitive to pain. I found it strange but now I see you have it too.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 12:56 am

          Hy Attsy,just like so many floxies wrote,my skin looks old and wrinkled since I was floxed.And I got part of the skin on my face and back of my head that are constantly flaking.Itches extremely and looks terrible.It’s very sensitive to,about,everything;the only sops I can use on my face are olive oil soap,and the best: my homemade cocos-oil soap.I use mandarin oil,and ceder oil to parfumate them (both 100% natural oils).

          My neighbour girls love the mandarin parfumed one,my skin reacts best on the one with the ceder oil; the problem gets less severe since I started using that on my face,some weeks ago.And the foam of cocos soap seems makes my skin soft and less wrinkly,especcially the skin of my hands,which I wash way too often. With other soaps they get so dry that the skin sometimes splits open and starts to bleed.At the moment it feels soft,and the skin looks much better.And actually,soap making isn’t the worst job to do;it even starts to be kind of a hobby,for me :-))

        • Attsy May 17, 2019 at 5:38 am

          Hello Henk, it’s sad that it also affetcs our skins :(. Just out of curiosity how do you make your soap?

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 6:11 am

          Making soap is quite easy.You go to one of the soap calculater websites,put your oil choice,and the weight into the calculater,choose the lye (usualy NAOH),and it will give you the exact (importan!) amount of water and NAHO you’ll need for your amount of oil/fat.

          There are two ways of making the soap: the cold,and the warm way. I use the cold way but it lasts longer than the warm way.The cold way goes easier on the valuable substances in the oil.

          When the sapification is finished and the soap is ready for putting in the molds,you mix in the etheric oil,if you want the soap to be parfumed.Use maximal 10 ml per kilo of soap,as shown by the calculater:


          Attention:for your own safety:

          1. Always use safety glasses,and old cloathes that protect your skin.

          2. ALWAYS put the NAHO,slowly,into the cold water,wile gently stirring it with a wooden spoon. The chemical reaction heats the water to 50-70 degrees C., and the liquid is very corrosive.Splatters on your skin? Wash immediatly with lots of water.

          3. Untill the saponiification is finished,the liquid is quite reactive and can burn/hurt your skin.

          This info,and all the other info you’ll need are on the above,,and many other soapmaker’s websites:

        • Attsy May 17, 2019 at 6:27 am

          Henk, thank you, seems like fun thing to do and I see there is no way how to skip that NaOH phase :/. But I see on the website is possible to buy soap material and just melt this one. Honestly I am quite scared to use NaOH, is it easy to burn yourself with this stuff?? Or even explosion while mixing with the water?
          Anyway today I got my herbs and mixed them and made tea! It was quite delicious!

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 7:06 am

          It’s important to use a pot/container that’s big enough to mix everything (I use an electric mixer) without splattering,so,the total liquid should not exceed half the content of your pot (2 kilo’s of soap in a 4-5 liter container.And the level of the liquid should be higher than the height of the mixer,and start with the mixer on the lowest speed untill the liquid gets thicker.

          The first time I made soap,spatters all over the place,but no burnings on my skin because of the protected clothing that covered all of my skin.I also use latex gloves.Part of my face is not covered but the splatters don’t get that far.I prefer doing this method because I now have full control over every substance in my soap :-))

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 7:15 am

          About explosion risk: once again; NEVER put the water to the NAOH;ALWAYS put the NAOH,slowly,to the water. Should you put a bit of water to the NAOH,then the generated heat,at the moment the water hits the NAOH, is high enough to make the mix to start cooking agressively,and spatter this very corrosive and strongly alkalic solution around in an almost explosive way..That’s why you ALWAYS have to put the NAOH, SLOWLY, to the water,and not the other way around.

          When you follow the rules to work safe,you will be alright You might look for demonstrations on soap making on YouTube.

        • Attsy May 17, 2019 at 9:11 am

          It really sounds like fun thing to do :D!! I also noticed that on the internet there are many people selling their home made soaps. Thank you for all your tips Henk :). If I make myself to do one on my own I will let you know, how it went.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 17, 2019 at 9:40 am

          Success with making your own soap.I hope you’ll enjoy both the making ánd the soap. In most supermarkets,here,you can buy rather cheap cocos soap ( € 6-8 per kilo).In my opinion this cocos oil isn’t a good quality for using as a food,but it’s great for making soap.Good to superieur quality cocos oil will set you back €20-€30; quality food comes with a price :-((

        • Angela ashton May 18, 2019 at 2:14 am

          how do u make your own soap

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 18, 2019 at 2:46 am

          Angela,making soap is (almost) as old as history,itself. I typed “making soap” in my search engine and lots of usefull pages started coming up; it’s that easy ;-))

          Here’s a usefull one,and I posted a reply to Attsy with a link to a good soap calculator.


          Another helpfull advise;on those pages,most of the time they use an ordinary thermometer,and you have to have two ones;one for the lye,and one for the oil.A much simpeler way is,to buy an infrared thermometer;you can use that on both liquids,because they don’t touch the liquids.Very handy too,for other things (things in the oven,in the freeser,or when you make your own fresh cheese,for example).

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 18, 2019 at 2:49 am

          And here another link:


          You might also look for video’s on YouTube; things like “tracing” might sound crypic for some people,unless you’ve seen it (on YT ;-))

        • Anna May 18, 2019 at 2:29 pm

          After floxing my husband started making my face lotion. He heats bee wax pellets with Jojoba oil, Shea butter, Coconut oil and some other things. We usually have to keep tinkering with the proportions to get it the right consistency. I like mine with a lot of bee wax so it stays on my dry skin longer. It is seriously better than most store bought stuff, and in the end cheaper. I also like Wella Skin Food moisturizer brand for try skin, that’s good stuff, just stinks though.

        • L May 18, 2019 at 2:36 pm

          Does your husband have a brother? 🙂

        • Anna May 18, 2019 at 6:19 pm

          Well, I believe, and of course I may be wrong, that the effects are partially damage from the pill and part autoimmune response. If you notice many of the symptoms, they mimic autoimmune disorders. Then, the pill is also a very destructive pill mixed with fluoride which binds itself to cells and causes destruction which can last forever or just take a long time to repair. I believe your age, health, nutrition, and propensity for anxiety or auto immune diseases all play a part in how badly you will be hit. Does anxiety over the issues help healing? NO – but you can’t blame ones understandable stress over their body being attacked on their recovery progress. With that being said , pushing on is all you can do, if you can! My suspicion is many of us already had deficiencies or auto immune issues, without knowing.

  24. Dee May 16, 2019 at 1:12 pm Reply

    It is so ironic that a half mg. 0.5 of melatonin gave me horrible horrible tinnitus within a few hours besides being up the whole night with anxiety and a racing heart! It has taken many months for it to start to quiet down and soften up. And yet 6 mgs of melatonin are suppose to be a cure for tinnitus. Thinking about ever taking melatonin ever again makes me shake in my pants!!!’ Just goes to show how very differently we can all react!! If your Gaba receptors are very damaged from floxing I would stay far away from melatonin. That is supposedly why I had the “opposing” reaction!!?

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 16, 2019 at 1:45 pm Reply

      The first time I took Melatonin,I had a bad reaction as well.One of the things I remember from it was,that I couldn’t sleep at all,with 3 mg’s. Later on I discovered that this was caused by the vit. B6 in those tablets.I still take no more than 1 mg at a time,and prefer to take even less;at the moment I sleep well on 0,8 mg. I think that you have to take PURE melatonin,time released,and nothing added.And start low,and gradualy take e higher dose untill you find the right dose for you,at that moment.Being more outside,in the sun,for example,will rise your naturally made dose,so,bring down your melatonin suppl. dose accordingly.

      I think this also needs to be done when you take melatonin for the tinnitus problems.That’s why I suggest taking Magn. L-Threonate and Taurine may be the first thing to try,with Melatonine as a plan B option.The “trick” that commentor on Mercola com mentioned may be very usefull one for bringing down the noise in the short run,at moments where the noise is unbearable,or on very unwelcome moments.

      And CES is there,as an extra option.The Sota Bio Tuner is a high quality device (the name “Bob Beck” is a reliable garantee for the quality),but there are lots of other braintuners on the market,and some will be of high quality as well.Things are not hopeless with so many options for improvement of your tinnitus problem.

  25. L May 16, 2019 at 5:19 pm Reply

    Getting frustrated. Just left another post that did not take. Have to post twice to everything and hope they don’t both show up. So, as far as the skin, I imagine it’s because flqs can destroy any kind of connective tissue, including collagen. As for the rest…who knows. Either unleashing or creating auto immune disease? Mast cell disorder?

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 20, 2019 at 1:51 am Reply

      L. I think I found out about the “disappearing” messages: I just posted one,hit the button and it didn’t show up. Then,after I reloaded the webpage,it was there.It just didn’t show up in the active,open window in my browser,but it will do when you reload the page.Well,it did,for me,this time :-))

  26. Mike May 17, 2019 at 6:58 am Reply

    Thank God I only took *one* Levaquin 500 ten days ago. In that time, here are the symptoms that I’ve endured:

    Horrible lower back and leg pain
    Pins and needles in legs and arms
    Tightness and facial/head pressure
    Ear pressure
    Brain Fog
    Crushing stomach and abdominal pain
    Very slight memory and concentration issues

    I found Floxie Hope and immediately began a regimen of vitamins, probiotics, Magnesium, CoQ10, tons of fruit and vegetables, sleep as much as I can, praying, pushing myself to the comfort level with exercise, reading and writing, spending time with family and friends – and working. The physical symptoms are subsiding for me – for the most part. My legs and back ache a little, but it’s minor at this point. The big thing right now for me is concentration and pressure in my ears and head (headaches). This should pass in time.

    Considering how serious this can be, the biggest factor for proper healing is time. I’m keeping myself busy and not paying attention to the clock. Because I know that, at some point in the future, this will just be a memory. It may take a week, or it may take two months. I’ll wait, I don’t care. Because I know God gave me the chance and was watching over me when I only took that one pill and flushed the rest down the toilet.

    I’ve kept my diet clean for the most part, but am starting to reintegrate what I want to eat again – slowly. Patience is the ultimate key and tool to recovery.

    • Attsy May 17, 2019 at 12:49 pm Reply

      Hi Mike, so happy you were able to realize that your problems were caused by the antibiotic you took. You can consider yourself lucky!! I hope you will be able to get well soon and you will find (and already have found) here a lot of useful information the same way I did after I was floxed :).

      • Mike May 17, 2019 at 1:03 pm Reply

        Yeah, it’s scary. I’m just wondering how long it’ll last after one pill. I’m still able to walk and exercise, work, etc. My muscles definitely ache (neck, arms, hands and legs), but I’m nowhere near incapacitated or anything. It’s painful, but I’d say it’s more on the mild side. I’m just wondering from a single dose and these symptoms what recovery time ballpark looks like.

        • Attsy May 17, 2019 at 1:19 pm

          Yes, you can get the symptoms even after one pill. The recovery time is individual but 10 days is still too early. I took 14 pills of cipro last year and got bad joint pain and insomnia – it disappeared after 6 weeks (I didn’t know that it was because of cipro) and then I got 6 pills of ofloxin fall into anaphylaxis and I have symptoms till today. It has been 11 months now. I can say that the first 5 months I thought I would die. But it’s much better. I think you should maybe rest more and exercise a bit less than you were used to before you took the pill. Honestly you can get new symptoms weeks after you took the pill. I would be very careful with pain killers, corticoids, some antidepressants and medication which contain fluoride. But I do believe you will be able to heal much sooner (hopefully a few weeks). You should also avoid these ATB in the future.

    • Anna May 17, 2019 at 5:38 pm Reply

      I only took one Cipro 500 pill too. It jacked me up bad, all the same symptoms that you are saying but mine lasted over 6 months. I have to say I am mostly better as far as leg cramps/knee weakness has left, brain fog is gone, but head pressure and a swollen eye still remain. Weird stuff. This medicine is very mysterious, but I guess all poisoning is, it is like a pin ball machine, you don’t know where this shit will land. Glad you are on the mend!

      • Mike May 18, 2019 at 5:00 am Reply

        Day 11: It’s mostly soreness, not pain where it’s incapacitating. I’m slowing it down on the exercise front, but staying active.

        I’m just amused how a single pill can defy logic by leaving your system and THEN days later doing damage. I’m just thankful I had the sense to chuck it after one. Good grief.

        • L May 18, 2019 at 10:45 am

          It doesn’t actually leave your body.

        • Mike May 18, 2019 at 11:17 am

          Are you sure? How does that make sense, though – if it’s not present in the blood, where exactly does it go if it gets excreted? I mean, is it just something you sweat out?

        • Attsy May 18, 2019 at 11:25 am

          I always thought it might stay in your bones? L, are you sure it can REALLY NEVER leave?

        • L May 18, 2019 at 12:41 pm

          I don’t think anyone know for sure, but toxins can live on in fat cells. There were some posts on this very subject a week or two ago, if you can find them.

        • Attsy May 18, 2019 at 2:14 pm

          Hi L, thanks, I read something about it. Honestly I won’t accept the fact that this won’t leave my or your/or anyone else body. I do believe it has to leave. I still believe body can repaire a lot of damage by itself. If I am not right and it won’t leave mine then I pray that it would leave yours or others.

        • L May 18, 2019 at 2:35 pm

          Well I am hoping that too. Like an exorcism! 🙂

        • Mike May 18, 2019 at 3:13 pm

          Yeah, I just don’t buy it. After reading more on this than I should probably have, it seems this effect is extremely individualized. Like, extremely individualized. I think there’s just a ton of variables involved in healing, like your existing health, how much you took, sensitivity to these meds, dedication, etc.

          For example, I’m on Day 11. I took one Levaquin 500. I’ve got a Fitbit and have been walking 3-4 miles a day the last three days. The only problems I’m having are some annoying tendon pain, lower back pain, stuff like that. The first three-ish days were tougher. My stomach felt God awful, fast heart rate, insomnia, etc. But I flushed the hell out of myself with antioxidants, fruit, water with lemon, CoQ10, vitamins, magnesium, my usual shakes, supplements, etc. I think if you counter it quick, the better recovery you’ll have. It’s like a wound: if you don’t help it, it’ll get worse. But if you at least try to do the right things, you’ll almost assuredly get better.

          I’m also a believer that anxiety is what crushes folks from their recovery. The physical part, in time, should heal (health dependent). The mental part is key: beat that, and you’ll get ahead. Just know it WILL go away.

          And one more thing: getting tests by doctors while you’re going through this and having them come back normal is, ironically, a good thing. I mean, we all know what’s up – this stuff screwed us. But as long as other tests come back normal, it should give you peace of mind in some facet that you have healthy blood and urine, etc. That’s incentive to beat it with time.

  27. Joanneg May 19, 2019 at 9:20 am Reply

    I came across this video of a functional meficine doctor who helps people suffering from fluoroquinolone adverse reactions and figured I’d post it in case someone might be interested. I don’t know anything about him just happened to across it.

    • Mike May 20, 2019 at 4:38 am Reply

      Just to be clear on the general consensus: this gets worse before it gets better, correct? I’m 13 days in and my headaches and anxiety are a little worse, as is muscle pain. I only took one Levaquin.

      • Deb May 20, 2019 at 6:46 am Reply

        Hi Mike,
        I have found that the symptoms can be up and down. Glad you’ve had some good days too.

      • Madge Hirsch May 21, 2019 at 1:33 am Reply

        It depends on the individual. As for treating the floxing early that very much depends on whether you have an immediate reaction. For those who have delayed reactions not only are they likely to finish their course thus exposing themselves to far greater quantities of the drug, but they are less likely to connect the drug to their symptoms leading to the possibility that they will take it again. This happened a lot to people in the decades when the patient info leaflet was totally inadequate and before the internet. I did not have an immediate reaction till my fourth floxing. It was only then that I looked up the drug online and realised I had had previous floxings that at the time were just mysterious periods of ill health. You are doing as much as you can but be careful with the exercise and listen to your body. Tendon ruptures are a real possibility and even the useless leaflets now say any tendon pain should be taken seriously with rest.

  28. Deb May 20, 2019 at 6:52 am Reply

    Has anyone tried topical and oral colloidal silver? What were your dosages and side effects if any? And how long did you take it? Thanks!

    • Mike May 20, 2019 at 7:06 am Reply

      I guess, for as odd as it sounds, I’m in the minority having only taken one dose. The fact I can still walk no issues, get in 3-5 miles a day and be active is fairly lucky.

      I guess I’m looking for some idea as to how long someone who’s taken one pill experiences symptoms for on a typical basis, because I know it’s individualized.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 20, 2019 at 8:22 am Reply

        Mike,some people have landed in a wheelchair ,for month’s, after just one pill.The damage depends on so many different factors;some have taken several courses of FQ’s,spread over decennia,without any problems,and then,after just one,or a few pills,are in deep troubles.How long it takes to recover,and to what extend you’re able to recover is different for anybody as well;good luck!

      • Mike 2 May 23, 2019 at 4:54 pm Reply

        I took two pills and stopped. My worst months were months 2-5. Took me about six months to get with life normally, but then eye floaters and tinnitus showed up.
        It’s hard to predict.

        • Mike May 23, 2019 at 5:53 pm

          What were your early symptoms? Did you have physical capability after it happened and how soon and how much? Did you get on Magnesium and supplements shortly thereafter?

  29. Attsy May 20, 2019 at 9:12 am Reply

    Guys, do you also catch cold, old some mild viral viruses all the time? I had weak immune system even before but now, I have cold like twice a month. Does it dissapear after some while? The last one left two lipoms which didn’t dissapear in my neck. I find it very annoying.
    Also my period is extremely painful. I know I talk here usually to men but if some woman has a tip for this period cramps would be appreciated. Thanks.

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 20, 2019 at 9:43 am Reply

      Hi Attsy,I don’t have those problems with virusses,but I had a strong Immune system against that kind of infections,before I was floxed,and I’m using (part of) the Bob Beck Protocol almost daily,since end of februari,last year.

      I don’t have painfull periods,in fact,I don’t have periods at all,being a man.But this can’t keep me from giving you an advise ;-)) You might try to massage your belly with magnesium oil,during your periods.Starting with the magnesium oil, a week ahead,might even work better,and supplementing the maximum on magnesium you can without getting loose stools will add.

      I hope this helps.

    • Madge Hirsch May 21, 2019 at 1:43 am Reply

      Try taking NAC -N acetyl cysteine . It works well for staving off colds and flu. Also make sure your vit d levels are optimised. A level of at least 50ng/l. I used to take Black Cohosh when I still had periods as NSAIDs always upset my stomach. At that time I had no idea I had been floxed.

    • Virginia May 21, 2019 at 4:25 pm Reply

      Attsy, about your painful periods, I sympathize! I too had them many years. They improved after I gave birth the first time. I agree with Henk about the magnesium oil over the uterus area and oral magnesium, up to bowel tolerance. I didn’t know about magnesium back then, but what helped me was a heating pad on my lower belly, and in worst cases: a hot bath, which always helped. Also, very severe period cramps can be a sign of endometriosis, so you may want to rule that out.

    • Attsy May 22, 2019 at 12:03 am Reply

      Hi all, thank you for all the recommendations. For some uknown reason (maybe I was too positive) I got very bad stomachache and thought I would call an ambulance two days ago. Now I am not so positive about this leaving my body as I was before.
      Virginia I used to have painful periods before, when I went to gynecologists (visited three doctors and then I stopped going) I was told every woman has it. I am not so sure how to ask directly for endometriosis test.
      Anyway I always spend time in hot water as this helps me even for stomach cramps.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 22, 2019 at 3:54 am Reply

        Attsy,as a woman you’ll know that some women have extreme painfull cramps during their period,while others hardly notice any discomfort.One of the known reasons is a mgn.deficiency Which causes cramps.Here’s the logic: like in any hormonal process magnesium is needed in high amounts.And the symptoms of a deficiency will show the most in the area where the process is finding place.Rubbing your (whole) belly will rise the amount of magn. where it’s needed most at the time.

        The rubbing/massage,on it’s own,will help,as well.My first girlfriend had a hard time,during her periods,as well.Painkillers,and even some alcoholic drinks were used,but did hardly bring relief.At that time I didn’t know of the importance of magnesium,but I read in a book about massage how to massage the belly for pain relief during periods.I tried it on her,and it really helped.You have to massage in a tender way because of the sensitive organs,there.

        • Attsy May 22, 2019 at 6:41 am

          Henk, thank you for the response. I got my period and then when it stopped I got colon attack, it was almost the same like year ago. Don’t know what I did wrong. The truth is that it made me quite scared. I will try your tip with belly massage.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 22, 2019 at 7:09 am

          Attsy,don’t forget the magnesium (oil);it will help relax the muscles.You might take a warm bath,as a start;this will start the relaxation and open your pores for the magnesium oil uptake..

          The massage: put your hand on the lowest part of the belly,and while gently pushing,rub it upworth to where your belly button is.That is for the massage.You’ll rub the magn.oil,gently,into the skin of the rest of your belly,as well.

          I hope it works.

        • joanneb4 May 22, 2019 at 4:41 pm

          Should we take collagen then? What brand and how much? What supplements and foods help with mitochondrial and nuclear DNA damage and brain and nerve damage? Should we eat higher protein? Any good protein powders if shakes?

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 23, 2019 at 12:14 am

          Joanneb4,I’d wish I had all the answers.Yes,you can take collagen supplements,but bone broth and other natural sources might be a better choise;no fillers,magnesium stearate or other adds in it,Don’t forget to get enough vitamine C;it’s needed for a good collagen synthesis.An article on collagen:


          There are lots of substances which might help repeir your nerves,and brain cells: the right kind of fats and oils,minerals,vitamines (B6 and B12 are very important!),etc,but the degree of how much of the damage can be repaired depends on the amount of damage,age and many more factors.

          The cell repair (mitochondria,DNA) is an even harder question to answer,actually,I’ve found hardly any information about it. I,for myself,consider excersize and other fysical activities to be our best chance. Those activities force the cells to make more (and,hopefully,healthy) mitochondria.In how far one can repair the DNA,and how,I found no usable info untill now.It might be dependant on the age of the person,involved.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 23, 2019 at 12:31 am

          Here another link about collagen supps:


          I read that,for the nerves (pains) Electrical nerve stimulation such as TENS might be helpfull. I have good experiences with electro-medicine myself,as you might have read here,on FloxieHope.

        • Attsy May 23, 2019 at 12:11 am

          Henk, thanks, I don’t know what happened or what I did wrong but it came back to some digree. I think I was simply too positive :(.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 23, 2019 at 12:34 am

          Attsy,when you want to know what the term “ups and downs” mean,then ask a Floxie :-))

  30. Henk Noordhuizen May 21, 2019 at 3:38 am Reply

    A new article from Mercola,on the dangers of Fluoride.It’s a pity that there is so much focussing on the Fluoride in water,and to little in the Fluoride in medicines;over 20 % is fluoridated,since most sources,and spme even say it’s around 50% by now.The article talks about Fluoride “accidents” but there’s not a word about all the FQ-victims (so,I wrote them about this ugly mistake ;-))


    • Mike May 21, 2019 at 4:34 pm Reply

      Question for you guys:

      I took the one Levaquin two weeks ago. Here’s what I’m experiencing two weeks almost to the minute:

      1. I can still walk without issues. My legs, knees and quads are sore and they feel tight, but it’s nothing debilitating.

      2. I can still walk and move around the house and such, no problems – too much – there.

      3. No real extreme fatigue.

      4. Can stand in place for excessive periods.

      5. Shoulders, lower back and wrists are tender in single spots (not widespread).

      6. Brain fog dissipating or dissolving.

      7. Can drive long distances for work.

      8. Experiencing some anxiety and such.

      9. Stomach felt nuked first 72-96 hours. Not anymore. Just achy here and there.

      10. Neuropathy is really just slight ear pain and light tingling.

      I’m just wondering if this is considered a very mild floxing by contrast to the majority. I mean, and you guys can keep me honest, there are stories of people bedridden for months on end. I’m able to exercise reasonably and can walk and put weight on my legs without problems.

      I think my situation mirrored Liz’s story, but I was curious about what folks thought.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 22, 2019 at 3:39 am Reply

        Yes,Mike,those are very mild symptoms,and you are very lucky to have stopped taking more of those pills.I even was way much sicker after a course with Metronidazole and Amoxicilline,stopped I stopped taking the Amoxicilline after 5,and the Metronidazole after 6 days,of the 7 days I had to take them by prescription.Neither of both had Fluoride in it,the most probable main cause of the list of destructions,brought to us by FQ’s.

        Although things look good for you,don’t hang out the flag,yet;many of the symptoms show their ugly face after weeks,months and sometimes even longer after you took the last FQ pill.I hope you’re one of the lucky ones!

        • Mike May 22, 2019 at 5:56 am

          I’m just wondering how long this’ll last if I put my best foot forward. The annoying part is the tendon/muscle pain and aches. It seems like some foods are inflammatory, so I’m recalibrating my diet until I heal.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 22, 2019 at 6:13 am

          Mike,it’s impossible to predict how long your symptoms will last;everybody reacts in a different way on being floxed.The main reason why,is because the Fluoride hits in so many places in the body (in fact: in every cell;theri mitochondria,and their mitochondrial and nucleus DNA,it destroys collagen (muscles and tendons),and damages the nerves,and,probably,brain cells as well.Like I wrote,things might look very possitive at one moment,and take a turn at the next one.Or not;always try to stay possitive.

  31. Andrea May 22, 2019 at 3:45 pm Reply

    Hi everyone, I’m sure I’ve wrote about it before, but since I can’t remember your answers, I’d like to ask this again : has anyone ever tried some sort of fast, after being floxed? I’ve tried a 3 days water fast a couple of times in the last year and a half, but the results were quite disappointing. Does anyone have some experience to share?

    • Attsy May 22, 2019 at 4:05 pm Reply

      Hi Andrea, I water fasted for 10 days and it helped a lot. But I don’t recommend to fast for so many days. Unfortunately I am not able to fast anymore I always get very sick if I try. But my problems are mainly digestive.

      • Andrea May 22, 2019 at 5:41 pm Reply

        Thanks Attsy, that’s kinda funny, I usually had the exact opposite reaction. In fact, when I’ve fasted, only for 3 days, by the second day, I’ve always felt like some of my symptoms, tha joint/muscle pain expecially, were coming back in full force. But, my digestive issues, were going better, well of course, I was not eating at all :-). But again, if I fast, I kinda feel better in certain aspects, like mind clearity but after 2-3 days, all the aches start to come back, so once the fast ended, I take all my supplements back, expecially vitamin d, and they slowly gets better…
        Can you please decribe what benefits you noticed from fasting? Thanks.

        • Mike May 22, 2019 at 6:45 pm

          I started Magnesium Glycinate 400 today and noticed – somewhat – of an impact. It wasn’t stark, but it was noticeable.

          This stuff obliterated my digestive system. Like, what the hell…

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 22, 2019 at 11:35 pm

          When Glycinate 400 stands for 400 mg,then you’d better spread it trhough the day,When it’s a tablet,try to break it in half.There are small tablet-cutters on the market;I use one as well.And best take it with,or directly after a meal.

        • Attsy May 22, 2019 at 11:53 pm

          Andrea, I fasted 10 days back in November because the pain was unberable. Actually I felt more energy, brain fog dissapeared, my stomach stopped hurting. Then when I started to eat again I thought it was gone for a few weeks. Unfortunately I have it to some extent back. But my body disagree with a new fasting. If I try I get more negative symptomps, like I feel dizzy, my legs are tingling and get headaches.

      • Andrea May 23, 2019 at 5:19 pm Reply

        I understand what you’re saying Attsy.
        I understand your frustation, trust me. But just try to stay positive if you can.

  32. Andrea May 23, 2019 at 3:30 am Reply

    Yeah Attsy, that sucks, because there’re defenetly prooved benefits induced by regular fasting periods. Even in cancer patients. But we’re floxies, and that’s probably a completely different story.
    Are you familiar with Professor Valter Longo and his Fasting Mimicking Diet? If you haven’t already done that, I suggest you to read his studies. There’re also pleanty of videos on YT and online in general. He also promotes and sells this Prolon kit, wich is a specifically designed kit of meals, to help you do a 5 days “fast”. The theory and studies behind it, is that, according to Longo, many ill people find a complete water fast too heavy, so by extremely restricting your calories intake for 5 days (1000 calories the first day and 750 calories the next 4 days) and giving you the right foods, your body would have all the benefits of a water-only fast, but without the negative effects. The kit is quite expensive, 200 €/dollars, but sooner or later I know I’m going to try it. It’d nice, to see if I finally can achive some benefits from a fast.

    • Mike May 23, 2019 at 5:14 am Reply

      But the serving size is two pills at the sane time with water or a mean – why would you break it up? It’s doing the same thing (400mg) whether you break it up or not.

      I try to get additional magnesium throughout the day.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 23, 2019 at 7:10 am Reply

        When the serving size upsets your stomach and/or intestines,you’d better take them separeted,with a few hours in between.

    • Attsy May 23, 2019 at 5:45 am Reply

      Andrea, no I have never heard of this. I think I probably need a new body, honestly I don’t even want this one anymore. Well I might look at it, so if you try it and have a success with it, please inform us. Thank you.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 23, 2019 at 7:21 am Reply

        I still think the best way of fasting isn’t on water,but on freshly made vegetable juices,preferably made by a good slowjuicer.This cleans the body (the main goal of fasting) without stressing it.You might be interested in the Gerson therapee, which is all about raw vegetables and vegetable juices. You might choose for the juice fasting,alone,if you want. The coffee enema’s are out of the question,for Floxies,anyway:

        • Krabiwi May 23, 2019 at 10:07 pm

          I was floxed March 2018 with crippling onset reaction, wheelchair etc. I practice 18/6 and 6/1 intermittend fasting as well as low carb diet (all help to heal mitochondira as it reduces oxidaitve cell stress and boost cell repair, there are lots of scientific studies and medicine nobel price 2016, google for it), could walk again 6 months later and now one year later I am 80% healed. I can recommend that in addition to nutrition and supplements.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 24, 2019 at 2:38 am

          Krabiwi,thank you for the information. Can you give is some links to the sources.please?

          Which FQ did you use,and for how long/how many pills of what dose,that hit you so bad?

          My blood glucose regulation was ruined after an antibiotic course,in 2004.After 3 years I managed to recover it,partially,but in sept. 2016 Cipro ruined it again,Symptoms:getting shaky and weak,impaired brain working,and feeling of passing out when low in glucose,and feeling totaly pumped up,walking rounds on the ceiling,after just 1 1/2 slice of whole grain bread with some meat,peanut butter or someting else that has no sugar in it.And half an hour later back to fase one,the low glucose feeling.

          So,since 2004 I eat a low carb diet,while,before my first AB experience I ate big meals,with 6-8 slices of whole wheat bread,with sweet things on part of them.And I was supplementing Magnesium for a couple of years before getting floxed (4 pils of Cipro;stopped after 2 days),and I still use a magn.supp. every day.

          Fasting,even intermittend fasting,are a no-go for me,because I stll have hypo’s,when low in glucose (and hyper’s,when I eat to much carbs,for example,two slices of whole wheat bread is to much for me,now.But I like cooking,and vegetables,and have eaten in a healthy way for most of my life.

          I hope your health improvement continues,to a 100% recovery.But,like I wrote before:don’t hang out the flag,yet; an FQ poisoning brings you lots of (nasty) suprises,some of them long after your last FQ pill.

        • Krabiwi May 24, 2019 at 2:12 pm

          I am active in German Forum since I was floxed and doing lot’s of research there. In those posts you find some links to those studies:

          Also if you read here the stories of Lisa and others who got back on their legs pretty fast within 8-14 months they mostly have in common cutting out sugars and other empty carbs like wheat flour products, eating mostly meat and veggies. This is basically low carb and I am sure they even reached ketosis without knowing it.

          I got Cipro in 2014 without acute reaction, in 2018 two pills of avelox then exceeded my mtDNA damage threshold.

          Carbs are sugar (glucosis), so 100g of bread and 100g of milk chocolate have basically the same effect on blood sugar and mitochondria, as they fuel them with glycosis.

          If you get into ketosis your body starts to produce keton bodies and doesnt need any glucosis at all anymore. That metabolic switch can be tough, thats true, it’s called ketogenic fewer and can last 1-2 weeks.

          When I was freshly floxed I had no apetite anymore and didn’t eat for a whole week, from this point I am in ketosis and check this regulalry with strips and breath testing device.

          For first 6 months I had only about 20g of carbs daily, now as it gets better I am around 50g and cheat sometimes.

          Yeah I am careful the better it gets, recently I drank too much beer and some neurpathies came back. Discipline is most important, especially once it gets better. Even if symptoms vanish there is still a subacute mtDNA damage which will take many years to heal.

        • Anna May 25, 2019 at 5:41 pm

          I am sorry, I completely disagree with this. I drink wine everyday, and have pretty much fully recovered, with the exception of one issue. While everyone is different, promoting a ffad extreme diet, also kidney destroyer, like keto is not factual for an over-all remedy . Maybe during keto they also ingested more nutrients than they would have originally, which led to a quicker healing?

        • Krabiwi May 27, 2019 at 8:41 pm

          Wine is better than beer, as beer has higher glyx. Also it’s the amount that counts until alcohol backfires.

          It’s proven that fasting and keto lowers oxidative stress and heals mitochondria. Our mitochondria are all the same, only the amount of mtDNA damage in different organs varies from floxed to floxed person. It’s also used as MS treatment, cancer therapy and lot’s of studies coming out step by step. Recent ones:

          “Fasting reduces oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction and fibrosis induced by renal ischemia-reperfusion injury”

          “Ketogenic diet decreases oxidative stress and improves mitochondrial respiratory complex activity”

          “Nutritional Ketosis and Mitohormesis: Potential Implications for Mitochondrial Function and Human Health”

          “Ketogenic diets, mitochondria, and neurological diseases”

          “A Ketogenic Diet Improves Mitochondrial Biogenesis and Bioenergetics via the PGC1α-SIRT3-UCP2 Axis.”

          “The ketogenic diet reverses gene expression patterns and reduces reactive oxygen species levels when used as an adjuvant therapy for glioma”

          That’s why the Whals diet becomes more and more popular among floxed people. It’s no magic pill, but would assume one can heal 2-5 times faster with it depending on overall health and age.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 23, 2019 at 7:22 am Reply

        A documentary about the Gerson therapee:

      • Mike May 23, 2019 at 7:49 am Reply

        Right, but if it doesn’t, taking two for the full dose as indicated on the bottle without any digestive problems.

        I’ve noticed that, since starting it yesterday, my knee stiffness and calf stiffness has dissipated a bit. Muscles are still sore, a little bit of tendon pain. My ears are also feeling like a weird burning sensation the more I talk.

        Most of my issues I think stem from the digestive punishment the one pill did sixteen days ago. Some food feels like it inflames me. It’s crazy…

        • Mike 2 May 23, 2019 at 5:06 pm

          Hi Mike,
          i read through a few of your posts so let me share my quick thoughts. I’m an active 37M. This happened to me in Sept 2016. I only took two Levo pills and then my achillies tendons were sore so I stopped and switched antibiotics.
          My tendon pain went away after a few days and I was fine for the next few weeks… then about three weeks later random symptoms came about. Facial tingling and some arm tingling to start. Then I had some overnight tremors (enough that my wife would wake me up). Over the course of two months (so Nov and Dec), I had sudden blurry vision, internal vibrations, burning feet, sore back, head pressure (which was prob the worst of it all) and a few other things.

          I had no idea it was the Levo that did it… so ofter MRIs, CTs, a few doctors and a dozen blood tests, my internist confirmed that it was antibiotic toxicity.

          the traumatic symptoms faded away in Feb. Over the following year I developed Tinnitus, eye floaters and a very sensitive stomach.

          I guess to echo what the others here have said, there’s no telling what’s in store. But after reading dozens of stories and chatting with a number of Floxed people, the vast majority get symptoms over the first month or two, most of which fade away.

          Please keep in mind that if you fully recover soon, whatever random things happen to your body over the next few years could be related to this reaction.

          I’d also like to add that I hadn’t seen my doctor in over 10 years nor have any tests came back positive for anything. and I think I’ve had them all….. haha.

          It was a tough year and it’s still tough (as my joints are now aching out of nowhere after being symptom free for a long time.

          Take care and stay positive.
          Mike (2)

  33. Andrea May 24, 2019 at 3:46 pm Reply

    To krabiwi,
    I couldn’t find the reply button to your last comment, so I’m answering you here.
    Did you lost a lot of weight by switching to an almost permanent state of ketosis?
    I was interested in trying a ketogenic diet, because it looks like it can give you some benefits, as you reported, but It always seemed to me a little too extreme. You know, eating all that meat and fats, expecially from animal sources, never looked too appealing to me. Anyway, after all this time, are you still experiencing those side effects? Did you develop the typical breath from not eating carbs? Thanks, Andrea.

    • Anna May 25, 2019 at 5:47 pm Reply

      My husband was die hard committed to this diet. He DID lose weight, he did look like chit and unhealthy, and he DID binge and gain it all back very quickly. Remember the South Beach diet that was popular 15 years ago, which eliminated carbs? All the women flocked to it, wrote off bread, lost weight. After the extreme dieting, they gained the weight back rapidly. Same thing.

      • Andrea May 26, 2019 at 2:27 pm Reply

        Thanks Anna. Yeah, I think you’re probably right. All these low carb high fat high protein diet (South Beach Diet, Atkins Diet, Dukan Diet etc.) are probably all fad diets. The thing that sometimes make me curious about it, is the amount of people who swear that it does wonders. Anyway, unless you’re diabetic, a diet where you always have to prick your fingers to see your blood glucose level or taking breath strips, must be a little suspicious…Thanks for sharing your husband experience.
        Plus, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Blue Zones and longevity studies. The Blue Zones are places in the world where people live the longest. Some of these places are Italy (Sardinia), Japan (Okinawa), California (Loma Linda), Greece (Ikaria), Costa Rica (Nicoya). When talking about diet, all the people in these places share some things in common : high amounts of vegetables,legumes, some starches (potatoes, yams, whole grains), healthy fats (olive oil, nuts etc), some fruits and low amounts of protein, expecially animal based protein. Basically a 90% plant based diet, plus some protein from animals (fish, eggs, dairy, small amounts of meat etc)

        • Anna May 26, 2019 at 7:41 pm

          I think the Med diet and blue zone diets work excellent for people trying to keep a reasonable weight and stay healthy. Unfortunately, healthy and skinny don’t always mean the same diet. If you actually want to lose vanity weight, as I call it, then I think those diets also have too many healthy fats and carbs sometimes. People hate to hear this, but even healthy fats (nuts/beans/legumes) and healthy carbs )fruit, whole grains , brown rice,etc.) can stop you from losing weight. Personally, and again we are all different, I benefit mostly from lean protein, low carb with the exception of one piece of fruit and some wine daily. As a woman, when I load up on egg whites and lean turkey/and fish, plus cardio =the weight flies off. It is so hard to tell someone what to do, because we all really do need a slightly different formula.

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 27, 2019 at 2:39 am Reply

        The fastest way to lose weight: stop eating and drinking.

        The best (in my opinion) to loose weight ,ánd promote health is: eat lots of bio-vegetables,and drink water and vegetable juices.Eat only small amounts of carbs (nó sugars),proteins (eggs,fish,mushrooms,TINY bits of bio meat),and moderate amounts of healthy BIO fats (virgin olive oil,cocos oil,butter and cream.And,above all:eat a bit less than you used to,and move your body more.

        A recent discovery,done in the Netherlanda and Belgium universities,declares why some people are unable to get a slim line,while others can eat whatever,and as much as they want: The Akkermansia muciniphila bacterium:


        Untill mid 2004,when I got my first ever antibioticaum course (a hefty one,absurd and didn’t help at all) I ate enormeous meals,daily (astonished everyone,I’m a quite small guy),and ,although not a great lover of cookies and candies,I didn’t avoid those as well,without gaining weight.In fact I always stayed at a weight,some kilo’s LOWER than advised for my length,whatever I ate and drank.

        In 2004 I got an AB course (Amoxicillin and Metronidazole,taken together),got extremely sick and had to stop that course after 4 days,and,although I had loose stools,with recognizabel food parts in it,every day,for 3 years,could only tolerate very small amounts of carbs and ate way less then before that AB course,I started gaining weight and this only came to a halt after I got to 20-25 kilo’s of overweight. That’s what my first AB course did to me.

        Later came the Cipro experience,and now I understand why a naturopath (and certified alopathic doctor),after that first course told me: AB’s kill! By the way: she’s specialized in everything intestinal,and is well respected by other naturopath’s and alopathic medics as well. And,having studied both alopatic medicine and orthomolecular medicine (and a few sthings more),she knows what she is talking about.

        • Anna May 27, 2019 at 6:46 am

          Antibiotics never caused weight gain for me, but again we are all different. I do think there is more involved with weight gain than just caloric intake. I mean, chemicals/medicines/metabolism/steroids in meat/plastic exposure/chemicals in cosmetics, I believe all play a part. When I lived in Spain, they ate chocolates and cheese as much as the Americans I know, but were not the same size. I know in the US we are exposed to unGodly amounts of chemical in everything, especially food. Some people’s body can not handle chemicals and preservatives like other people’s, and sometimes overweight people are simply struggling with chemical exposure/toxins from food and cosmetic products.

        • Anna May 27, 2019 at 6:50 am

          I also read an article a year ago which indicated obesity may in part be due to a contagious virus/bacteria. YIKES! They went on to explain implanting feces from skinny people into fat people would help. I don’t know if that is the case, but certainly over-eating is not always the main culprit with obesity. I truly wish we had a government more concerned with the effects of our foods/medicines

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 29, 2019 at 2:22 am

          Anna,we are doused 24/7 in thousands of chemical substances.Most of those are never even tested for human,animal and invironmental safety.This sickens,and kills us,the animals and will,in the end,kill most lifeforms on earth.Most people are not aware of the danger,even parfumate ther homes and cars with these poisons because we’re told,in commercials,that this should be the way to live.And the politicians look the other way.


          I read that story,as well,but with a little difference: a woman had intestinal problems for several years,and nothing she tried,worked,Then she read an article about experiments in the alternative sector,about intestinal flora transplantation and gave it a try,with the help of her daughter,who agreed to be the donor.The experiment went as hoped,and from that moment the woman had healthy stools,fro the first time since the AB course,years ago.

          Then,a while later,this women started to get obese,just like her daughter,while she’d been very slim,all of her life.Wondering why this happened,they wrote their story on one.or more forums in the alternative sector,and somehow it reached some scientists in The Neterlands and Belgium,who discovered that the Akkermansia bacterium acts as a weight regulator who protect people from overweight.

          I wrote about this story,quite recently;I had the same experience.Always little underweighted (57 kilo;should be little over 60 kilo’s,according to weight advices).Got an AB course,and while having loose stools (3 years!) eating way less food then before the AB’s,with a minimal amount of carbs and part of the food coming out in a recognisable form in my stools because my digestion didn’t do it’s job so well,I started gaining weight,untill I reached 20-25 kilo’s overweight.There,it,sort of,stabilized.

          This is known by stockmen,all over the world,for decennia,and the main reason they give their livestoch AB’s. This way,these poor animals (who can’t say: “Hey,I think I’m floxed” ),will gain weight more rapidly,with less food. Lower costs,and less time untill ready for the market.I still wonder why it took so long,for our scientists,to find out about this,or,maybe,the did know all the time,but kept it a secret,blaming obese people for eating too much,and the wrong food.

          So,it’s not a bad bacterium,making obese,but a good one,killed by modern medicine (broad spectrum AB’s).There is,indeed,a plan to culture the Akkermansia,but untill now with no success.And believe me: this will probably be a very expensive Probioticom,once it’s there,and probably patented.Like Bob Beck once said: “First create a problem,and the offer a solution” .

    • Krabiwi May 31, 2019 at 11:55 pm Reply

      “Did you lost a lot of weight by switching to an almost permanent state of ketosis?”

      I lost lot’s of muscle anf bone mass due to floxed, about 15 kg. With keto and fasting my weight even increased as muscles come back. I only lose fat what is a good thing, whole body optimizes itself.

      I was interested in trying a ketogenic diet, because it looks like it can give you some benefits, as you reported, but It always seemed to me a little too extreme.

      “You know, eating all that meat and fats, expecially from animal sources, never looked too appealing to me. ”
      Keto can even be vegan if you eat lots of nuts and seeds, which are full of fats and protein. Fats are in fact healthier than empty carbs. Only transfats are very bad.

      “Anyway, after all this time, are you still experiencing those side effects? Did you develop the typical breath from not eating carbs? ”

      I am now 15 month out and back to around 80-90%, 12 month ago I couldn’t even walk 50 metres, now I walk again over 3 km easily. I never noticed an aceton breath.

      I can confirm all those studies, fasting and ketosis heal mitochondria and optimize cells. Anyway it still takes months and years depending on amount of damage. As well the metabolic switch can be hard and with symptom, that’s why it makes sense to stay in ketosis once reached.

  34. Henk Noordhuizen May 26, 2019 at 2:21 am Reply

    Found another “nurse” with a video on FQ’s She did mention adverse reactions but hardly touched those.Most comments are “This is a great and helpfull video”,only one comment mentions the tremendous harm these AB’s are causing:

  35. Henk Noordhuizen May 27, 2019 at 2:03 am Reply

    A very interesting article from Mercola on mitochondrial health,and new scientific findings. It might even give a hint about how THC,and maybe other cannabinoids as well, protect against Alzheimer,and even have a possitive effect on excisting Alzheimer (by stimulating Serotonin production?):


  36. M May 27, 2019 at 11:37 am Reply

    Hi all,

    Long time floxie with primarily nervous system issues trying to get back into exercising. I’ve done it off and on over the years, but I’m finally back in a good, *consistent* routine including weights and some cardio (some running, biking).

    I love being active, and I feel great *while* being active and great for period of time after.

    But recently, since being in the consistent routine, I’ve noticed my nervous system symptoms eventually being irritated. Increased brain fog (so hard to focus), high anxiety, head pressure, eye lid twitching, muscle twitching. It seems to dissipate if I take several days off from being active.

    I think it is definitely the physical activity making me feel this way. Any insight into why this is actually happening though?

    – Am I just irritating my already fragile nervous system?
    – Am I actually triggering some sort of “new reaction”/cycle?
    – Am I detoxing some long buried remnant of the FQ, which causes the symptoms…but in turn the detox may actually be beneficial in the long term?
    – Am I missing some nutrient that my body needs more of since being floxed? I eat a nutrient rich diet of organic fruits, veggies and high quality meat. I take no supplements as they never made any difference to me.

    I love being active and I’m not going to stop. This drug has already taken enough from me. Still, I’d like to know what is happening, and ideally hear a story from someone who had a similar experience with exercise?

    My hope is that if I get into a routine of exercise + a break of several days, eventually each time I go back to a consistent routine the effects will diminish a bit…

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 27, 2019 at 1:26 pm Reply

      Might be you’re loosing too much minerals like magnesium and zinc, because of the sweating that comes with the sports.And a bit of vitamine B complex might help as well. Hard to say,what’s the cause;FQ-poisoning is an almost unknown terrain,and the poison makers don’t do,or finance,any research in this matter. fraid of what they’d find? Maybe they already know a lot more than they tell us,like,they did with Vioxx,and other “medicines”,before.

      I hope these symptoms will go vanish,part of it might indeed,like you suggested,be detoxing.I wish you luck!

    • Andrea May 27, 2019 at 4:28 pm Reply

      Hi M.
      I too love sport and being active. I used to run 2-3 times a week plus I (still) lift some weights. Now I don’t run anymore. If I try, after a couple of days I have to stop, because the pain in my ankles increases too much. Anyway I still lift weights 3-4 times a week. I’ve noticed I’m a lot weaker now. Not as far as pure strenght, but more on the energy/endurance level. I get tired way more easily now. Anyway, I’ve noticed that, overall, I feel better when I train, compared to periods when I don’t. Of course I can’t train like I used to…and that sucks. Now, back to you, yeah, your training might be triggering your symptoms, but this doesn’t mean you have to stop. You probably Need to find the right balance with the intensity and frequency of your workouts. If the scheduled training day you feel tired, go ahead and take another day off. Remember when you train, you’re stressing your body. As far as your diet, you’ve mentioned that you’re eating veggies/fruits and meat. That’s great, but I suggest you to add some carbs (beans, whole grains etc). Carbs are great for recovery after exercise. Maybe you just need a Little more carbs/calories. As far as supplements, maybe try some magnesium pre/post workout or even better a multimineral. For anything else, just ask…😉

    • A.Coleman May 28, 2019 at 12:54 pm Reply


      Glad to read you have returned to exercising even with the impacts of floxing on your performance. I have been suffering from the adverse affects of FQs for nearly 4 years now – but other than the first three or four awful months after being floxed I have kept working out.

      Remember that FQs attack mitochondria and that is the primary source of cellular energy in your body. No one seems to know exactly how FQs disrupt your mitochondria; but suffice it to say that they make it hard to do all the things you could in the past. I know I am nearly 4 years older; but before being floxed my energy level was so much higher. I could run a 21 minute 5K. Now I mostly do strengthening exercises with some mild cardio. My wife loves to go to spin classes. I have tried a few times but typically can’t sustain that intensity for 50 minutes – but twice a week spinning is my new goal. I finally gave up running after partially tearing my meniscus about 5 months ago; which was proceeded by a nearly torn achilles in the other leg a year before that – thanks Cipro!

      I am unsure what might be causing your nerve problems when you exercise. I do know that exercising releases toxins and if you avoided working out for a long time it is more likely that the process is releasing toxins (long sequestered away) into your system.

      The fluoroquinolones mostly affected my nervous system too; but I almost always feel better after exercising like Andrea mentioned. My neuropathy gets better; brain fog typically goes away and other nervous systems elements seem to work better for anywhere from two to six hours.

      While I have tried and discarded lots of supplements I think that taking no supplements is not the smartest way to approach FQ toxicity. There is clear evidence that nerves need B vitamins and Mg; and that FQs really deplete both of those directly or indirectly. Get tested for Mg levels in your Red Blood Cells – NOT serum. Your goal is the top 80% of “normal”; since most doctors believe 80% of the population is Mg defficient.

      I would also get a full B vitamin panel test; again RBC not serum where possible. I would not be surprised if you weren’t low in Vitamin B12 and possibly B6 / B9. Once I discovered I was heterozygous for one of the MTHFR genes and I started supplementing with the methylated forms of vitamin B several of my long suffering symptoms began to resolve.

      I recently added Coq10 with PQQ and L-Carnitine to my supplement regimen to try to combat my tiredness and it seems to be working. I recently worked out at the gym for 50 minutes and then worked in the yard for another 3 hours with an hour off in between. Afterwards I was tired but not overly tired and could function pretty normally – plus I slept through the night (insomnia is something I still battle). Now if I could just overcome the two new symptoms that cropped up with a relapse last September I might be well enough to write a recovery story.

  37. M May 28, 2019 at 4:44 pm Reply

    Henk, Andrea and A.,

    Thank you for your responses regarding exercise.

    I’m going to keep experimenting because I, maybe stupidly, refuse to give it up. I used to be active every single day, and I want to get as close as I can to that lifestyle again. This drug has changed who I am in so many ways over the years (as it has for all of us), but I won’t let it change this about me.

    The funny (and frustrating) thing is that I feel great WHILE being active, and I find that I can actually push myself without getting too exhausted. I’ve been having satisfactory workouts overall, and immediately afterwords I am in such a great mood – full of energy and literally, the happiest I have felt in years. My serotonin must be running wild.

    But then an hour or so later I crash. My head pressure (which has been constant since being floxed) gets significantly worse, along with dramatically increasing brain fog, inability to focus, high anxiety, extreme fatigue and muscle twitching. This will last for days, usually just short of a week. And then, a week later, I’ll go hard again and repeat…

    Is it a fantasy to think that if I just keep repeating the cycle it will eventually dissipate? I mean, exercise also helps repair/build new mitochondria, right?

    I agree with all of you that I should try some supplements again. Perhaps now that I am trying to be more active they will be more efficiently put to work in my body, as opposed to when I was more sedentary and never felt any difference. I may be losing minerals like Henk says.

    I’ve done so many blood tests over the years, with functional medicine doctors who pay close attention, and my levels for magnesium, B vitamins, etc. have always been in satisfactory to high range. But again, now that I am trying to push it, my body is probably needing some extra fuel.

    And speaking of fuel, as Andrea mentions, carbs are admittedly low in my diet because so much literature out there points to a low carb diet being a key factor to healing. Do I have to choose between being low carb to help my body heal and being active?

    Anyway, thanks guys. I’m going to keep at it and hopefully figure out how I can make it work.
    Though, even if I don’t, the brief happiness I feel during/after I work out is almost worth the misery in the days that follow…

    • A.Coleman May 30, 2019 at 8:21 am Reply


      Sounds like you may be pushing too hard when exercising. Try a milder, lower impact approach and see what happens. When I started exercising again after my initial break following floxing I only went for 20 minutes and stayed at that level for six or seven months, then worked up to my current 40 minutes – though that is less cardio and more weights.

      As to your blood work; 1) have you been checked for the right type of markers (serum Mg and B levels are not the best) and 2) have you been checked for MTHFR status?? I think nearly all floxies probably have some form of the recessive genes for MTHFR. Your body may not be able to even use the vitamins you have since it can’t methylate them. I was adequate in B vitamins too; but when I came back as a C677T heterozygous for MTHFR and started using the methylated forms of B vitamins my levels actually began to fall because my body could use the forms I was giving it; that led to an increased dose of the methylated B’s and the beginning of healing for several of my issues.

      I agree with not giving up on exercising – I suspect the real culprit is toxins released and inability of your damaged mitochondria to supply the energy you need when you work out so hard.

  38. joanneb4 May 28, 2019 at 6:44 pm Reply

    What antibiotics are safe to take? I have streptococcus overgrowth in vagina and urethra and mouth. It is recommended penicillin, ampicillin, cephalexin. Any of those ok? Anything natural? Can I take Tylenol for fever and pains?

    • Virginia May 28, 2019 at 7:06 pm Reply

      Hi Joanne, the antibiotics you mention are not in the fluoroquinolone family, so should not lead to any floxing symptoms. I have taken the first 2 and had no bad reactions. I haven’t heard of the 3rd one. If you have a UTI, you can try d-mannose, a natural remedy. But if the infection is severe, non-FQ antibiotics are likely safer. Tylenol is usually safe in low doses for a limited time, but too much can cause liver damage.

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 29, 2019 at 1:25 am Reply

      Joanna,there are no safe antibiotics. All AB’s will kill (part of) your intestinal flora (the bacteria that keep you alive and healthy).

      There are several natural options. One is Colloidal (Ionic) silverwater.Because most of the infection is surfacial ,the Ionic form is perfect for treating and healing it.You can rub it on the infected surfaces,rinse your mouth with it,might even put an in siverwater soaked tampon in,and,or drink small amounts (3 teaspoons,daily) of it. DON”T wash your vagina with soap;use ONLY WATER!


      After the infection has gone,or mostly gone,you have to restore the natural Ph of your vagina.Formally,this was done with a tampon,soaked in yoghurt or butterwater.There might be more comfortable ways,today;the ladies on FH might help you,here. I do know there’s a fluid,made from milk whey. It’s sold with a device to bring it in.

      Virginia’s advice to use D-Mannose,is also very helpfull; it keeps the bacteria from sticking to the surface of the bladder.The original source,Cranberry (juice),will help as well.And just drinking a lot is important as well; you’ll flush the bacteria out of your urinary trac.

      I hope this helps;good luck.

    • Henk Noordhuizen May 29, 2019 at 1:33 am Reply

      And I forgot a very obvious advice (think it’s in the “shower” article from Mercola,as well); on the toilet,when using toilet paperand under the shower,ALWAYS rub from front (facial side) to the back. When doing this the other way around,you’ll bring bacteria from your anus to your vagina,which will cause UTI’s.

    • Andrea May 30, 2019 at 3:24 pm Reply

      I’m sure I’ve already spoke about this, but be careful when using or suggesting to use colloidal silver…

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 31, 2019 at 2:09 am Reply

        Shame on you,Andrea! Quackwatch is run by Farmafia chills! And,at the moment,they run a campaign against Colloidal Silver. Just like they did against Cannabis,for many years. And against everything else they can’t get their bloody and greedy hands on for their own profit.Here a line from “your”article that gives it away,a bit: “The rule applies to any nonprescription colloidal silver or silver salt product” Mind the “NONPRESCRIPTION” ,here.

        “Many cases of argyria occurred during the pre-antibiotic era when silver was a common ingredient in nose drops”

        It is a known fact that,when silver,in a binding with salts and/or proteïns is used,it can lead to argyria. These were products of the Farmafia, using their own silver recipies (= patents!) This same Farmafia still uses Coll.Silver,today, for treating burn wounds and other things.All are patented products,of course! Other adverse reactions were not mentioned in the article,for a reason: there aren’t any,exept for nerve damage at almost unreachable levels of silver in the blood.

        “When the cause became apparent, doctors stopped recommending their use, and reputable manufacturers stopped producing them.”

        They stopped using Coll. Silver because of blue fingernails? Wouldn’t you like to have blue fingernails instead of all the damage this “perfectly safe” FQ’s caused on you,and the reason you’re here,on FloxieHope? The few known people with argyria have all used big quantities of wrongly made CS; most of them added salt to the water,to speed up the process.

        The title of the article is,on it’s own, a big lie:”Colloidal Silver: Risk Without Benefit” , reading further down the same writer states: “After eight hours of incubation, she found that bacterial growth had been inhibited around the antibiotics and four of the (SILVER) products.They tested nine products,names not mentioned,and four of those proved to work. Well,considering that,in an uncontrolled market for CS,with,probably,lots of products that only contain very small amounts of silver colloïds,if any,a score of 4 on 9 isn’t that bad. It isn’t suprising,either;where there’s money involved…..

        In fact,for the carefull reader,this article isn’t a warning against CS,at all! It is a PROMOTION for CS,because it states that a good CS product really works,and it is SOOOO much safer than FQ’s,and,in fact,EVERY farmaceutical antibiotic! I like FACTS.

        The one warning this article makes clear,although not mentioning it in a straight way: don’t trust just any producer; there’s money involved,so,there’s a risk for customers to be cheated on.The best option for people who want to use CS: MAKE IT YOURSELF! My choise: the Sota Silver Pulser. It is very reliable,makes high quality CS,and has another,very usefull way of use as well (blood cleansing).Another advice: only use it when neccesary.

        I use CS since 2005,and the only gray (not blue ;-)) you’ll see on me is my hair (which was grey,long before I started using CS). My neighbour,since 2 years,has become a happy user as well,few weeks ago he was wounded on his work.A piece of glass dropped and shaved a piece of skin from his knee.He started putting a few drops of CS on it,2-3 times a day,and after less than a week he was very suprised to see how fast his wound was healing,and the skin restored.He’s a true believer now.

        A few month ago there was a consumer program here,warning against the “in-efective” and “dangerous” CS,and a white coated toxicologist had 2/3 of the program to tell us that it has no proven effect,and is very dangerous.It even damages men’s sperm (!). I found the research,and yes,it has a negative effect on fertility of men (at least,when you’re a rat; no experiments on humans,so far. ;-)) Notice:the effects were dose-dependent,and even the lowest dose,used,was quite high.And notice that most effects are caused by other nano particles,as well,probably including the nanoparticles,used in medicines,and in food production,cosmetics,etc.

        In the research repport both silver nano particles,and other nano particle research is mixed,which makes it hard to tell which effects are caused by the silver.Also notice that the silver specification is not mentioned,only that it is a synthetic product,which suggests it is NOT pure silver.


        The remaining 10 minutes of the program were,to let a few “illegal” sellers confess,they still sold this illegal product,and a very simple minded user,who could only tell that,for him,it worked,and that some family members,and the neightbours dropped in,sometimes,to get a bit of his CS supply.This makes obvious the main goal of this program was fear mongering,and the setup was dishonest;a white coat,getting the largest amount of time to talk,with only a supplier and a simple minded customer to compare.Farmafia,all over the place!

        Andrea,please,remember who “brought” you here.These Farmafia criminals use every possibility they can find to discredit anything that competes with their poisons.While,at the same time,stealing our natural,and (mostly) very safe natural remedies.And they rule websites like Quackwatch,Skeptic,etc.

        • Andrea May 31, 2019 at 4:52 am

          “Shame on you Andrea!” Really Henk?? Still salty from the exchange of opinions we’ve had on vaccines?
          I’m going to let you know my take on Colloidal Silver in a minute, but first I want to answer to your personal attack you’ve just made. With your poor comment at the beggining of your post (the shame on you part), you’re implying that I’ve done something so bad or low I should feel ashamed. I think that’s inappropiate, to say the least, you’re very arrogant to wright something like that to me (or to anyone else here) but expecially, you’re not in the position to patronizing me (or anyonelse) like that. What I’ve just done,and I don’t feel ashamed AT ALL in doing that, I want to make this very clear, was just posting an article from a website that has critic view and -maybe- warns about the use of Colloidal Silver. I posted a link from Quackwatch, but I could’ve posted dozens of links from other webistes, stating more or less the same things, since there’re plenty who don’t reccomend the use of CS (not saying this is right or wrong or you should use it or not) just be careful, since, like I wrote in another post, I konw that there’s a REMOTE chance, you could get a serious and permanent side effect from it (argyria). I sometimes read Quackwatch, just like I read many articles from natural medicine pratictioners, or the links posted on this website, included yours, because, contrary to what you might think, I try to have a wide view on things, expecially health related, and I like to question everything. From what you’ve wrote, it appears you think I’m guillable and brainwashed by the “farmafia” (a ridiculous term you use many times in your posts, that, in my opinion, takes away a lot of credibility from you), when in reality, I just try, no matter how I suffer (just like you and everyone else poisoned by FQs) to don’t fall in the “it’s all a big lie” trap, where every synthetic drug created by humans would kill you in an harsh way, and every doctor is a greedy bastard who his main goal in life is to poison you. No matter how I suffer, no matter how I reconize how ignorant most doctors are (most of them, but there’re still a few of them who still care for patients and are trying to change things for the better with a more natural approach) , no matter how I understand there’re huge interests in promoting and overprescribing drugs and no matter how I undestand how pharmaceutical companies want to discredit “alternative” approches, I still think that modern medicines (this includes antibiotics, vaccines and so on) has changed our lives, and for the better. This of course, doesn’t mean, there’re no serious side effects or that medicine is perfect and you can’t doubt it. I could post lots of links about the efficancy of medicines, this includes vaccines and antibiotics, but what would be the point? It’s just farmmafia propaganda, right?
          I never forget, why I’m here, but as I wrote above, this doen’t change my take on medicine.
          I’ve tried MANY natural or “alternative” approaches (supplements,acupuncture,magnetic chairs etc.) but 90% of this prooved to be ineffective, or even harmful (I remind you I destroyed my gut flora and I developed IBS symptoms after taking an “all natural” probiotic) soemthing that even the FQ wasn’t able to do. What that means to me? it means that most of these “alternative” approaches doesn’t have any empiric or scientific proof, and they might or might not work for you. In this regard, I want to ask you soemthing, you always talk about the interests in pharmaceutical drugs(wich I agree) but what about supplements? Don’t you think that there’s a huge interest even behind it? How many private companies profit from the promotion and the consequent use of this “natural” supplements?

          Anyway, back to your comment, other fellow floxies here, after my post, warned me about Quackwatch and its legitimacy (something I still don’t know if I completely agree with, I still ned to look into it more deeply), but none of them used such an arrogant,offensive and unfair way to express themselves. I remind you that where’re all on the same boat, no matter how different our views on things are, so I invite you, from now on, to address to me with the respect I (and everyone else here) deserve, like you always did before. Otherwise just don’t aswer to my comments and posts. Thanks.

        • Henk Noordhuizen May 31, 2019 at 6:00 am

          Andrea,I apologize for the “Shame on you Andrea!” which was,by the way,half serieus,and,indeed,to harsh.

          If you’d read this QW article carefully,you could have noticed that the only adverse reaction,mentioned,was argyria,the blue-ish gray discolouring of nails and skin.And the “no benefit” in the title turned,later on in the article,in “After eight hours of incubation, she found that bacterial growth had been inhibited around the antibiotics AND four of the (SILVER) products (out of nine).”

          There are several publications on effectiveness and safety of CS,but they are not always easy to find. Some are mentioned in this article (one is done in Italy by the Institute of Microbiology in Rome;the original publication might be in Italian,and easier to find if searched with Italian search-terms):


          My very skeptic view grew out of my own,horrible,experiences over the last 20+ years,and those of so many others.Plus the fact that,especially during the last 10-15 years,more and more research,and cases in court prove that the farmaceutical industry is tainted with fraud and corruption,and billions of dollars payed for the damage,done.Countless numbers of people died because of their greed and lack of moral sense.

          Being very skeptic to their products is a form of self-protection,and after 20 years of “medicines” that damaged my health,time after time,the only way to go,for me,is: first look for a natural way to cure,and,if that fails,look for an alopathic way/medicine as a last resort.Modern,scientific-based medicine has failed on me,way too often and it would be utherly foolish to NOT be skeptik after all my bad experiences.

          By the way;yet another woman I knew well (the wife of a friend;I know both for almost 50 years) died 2 weeks ago: badly “tuned” medicine was the cause,here.This won’t help to change my opinion,don’t you think?

      • Henk Noordhuizen May 31, 2019 at 2:14 am Reply

        “(Colloidal) Silver is not effective. It is not effective,I repeat: it is NOT effective!”

        Well,actually,IT IS EFFECTIVE !! Just one link,I noticed,on the page I linked in my last posting;lots more proof on CS can be found if you want to look for it:


        • Andrea May 31, 2019 at 8:02 am

          Well, it takes a man to apologize, and I respect you for that.
          I also understand that comment was probably out of frustration. A frustration caused by this big mess we’re all dealing with. Only God knows if I’m frustrated and angry all the time after being poisoned by that crap…
          I’m sorry to hear about your friend’s wife loss,Henk. And it wouldn’t surprise me if you’d be right about the cause of her death.
          Let me tell you what happened recently, last week actually, to the brother of a lady who live next to me : he had heart problems, he had a pacemaker. A couple of weeks ago he went to the ER because he was suffering from some pain on his chest, shoulder and behind the ribcage. They visited him, gave him some painkillers and told him everything was ok. After a week, he started to get worse. The pain increased and he felt bad overall. He went back to the ER, they visited him again and send him back home. Again, everything was ok, according to them. An hour or so later, at home, he had an fatal heart attack. He was 55 years old. His wife, well, his widow now, want to sue all of them doctors. I hope she’d bring this forward and win, but knowing how things work, expecially here in Italy, I doubt it, seriously. They should start to punish all those incompetent pricks who do wrong, to educate the others. But I don’t think something would ever change…
          But again, in my opinion, it’s not the medicine/science wrong, well at least not all wrong. Today doctors have huge weapons to fight and expecially diagnose and prevent diseases. It’s their complete ignorance,lazyness and overall arrogance the main culprit.

          I’ll tell you another thing. My father, was/is, he’s now retired, a well reknown surgeon here in Italy. He always told me he choose this career instead of being a general doctor, because he didn’t trust too much medicines and drugs in general,except from the staple ones, and preferred something more tangible and solid, like surgery. And by the way, he always told his patients, that surgery was always the last resort. I can tell you as a fact that he never took a cent from a patient (here in Italy health care is free, for what is worth) so he never did private practice. Here in Italy, I don’t know other countries, doctors can do both private and public..that’s outrageous to him, and to me too.

          PS, My father took Cipro (so he self-prescribed it) a few times in his life time for a recourrent infection he has. Apparently, never had a problem with it. I even spoke about this at the EMA hearing…


  39. Dee May 30, 2019 at 10:05 am Reply

    A Coleman. Are you fully recovered now? I remember seeing you on here before but couldn’t quite remember your story? I thought you said you were floxed pretty bad? Just wondering how you are doing now?

    • A.Coleman May 31, 2019 at 8:37 am Reply

      Dee – thanks for asking. No not fully healed. Maybe 90% of normal. I have beat many symptoms of floxing – but not all. I was severely floxed and am only 3 months away from my 4 year floxing anniversary.

      While most of my symptoms are gone or nearly gone; I had a relapse last October / November that left me with a return of an old symptom and a brand new symptom; the return symptom – weird nerve problem in my legs that causes them to feel cold when fabric touches; but fine when warmed fully under a blanket or when wearing shorts (that had been gone for 2 years). 6 months later and that symptom is nearly gone again.

      The other new symptom has been frustrating. I have started experiencing the head pressure issue that other floxies have reported. It started mid-November; got really bad in February / March – totally went away for most of April then came back in mid-May. The pressure is not as bad as in February / March but more personally impactful – somehow. It is now starting to impact my work and life. Hopefully it will go away again soon and STAY GONE!

      Wishing you the best in your continued recovery and happy to hear any approaches to treating head pressure that others have found successful.

      • Dee May 31, 2019 at 11:48 am Reply

        AColeman, Glad you are 90% recovered from your floxing! And glad your relapse on legs went away! Well as far as head pressure it went away once so will go away agsin! That is my philosophy! I am thinking something you ate, drank, supplement, med anything might have triggered a reaction? You know being 4 years out that this can be all so unpredictable unfortunately… I am 2 years out and probably 80/85% better?? Still dealing with loose gut in morning and some tinnitus. I do get mild head pressure and headaches now and then bug not like the first few months. Any suggestions on healing the gut?? Did you have tinnitus? Do you feel you have been able to go back to your normal life as far as activity, eating, drinking taking medications etc?? My biggest fear is future medications? I feel like that is going to be a crap shoot the rest of my life!! I hope your head pressure goes away real soon “for good”!!!!

        • A.Coleman May 31, 2019 at 2:27 pm

          Dee – my main floxing symptoms are/were nerve related. I had severe digestive issues. I have had all the following digestive issues post-floxing – gastroparesis (stomach does not empty) sever stomach pain, nausea, heartburn (GERD), burping, and bloating.

          It started with pain and gastroparesis right after floxing. I lost 40 pounds because I couldn’t eat since food just stalled in my gut. The nerves weren’t telling my stomach to empty properly. That resolved in about 8 months and then the heartburn started. It was only bad when I burped, but I burped like 100 times a day. That took 2 1/2 years to heal – it has been about 4 glorious months of feeling mostly normal. I still get some nausea and mild stomach pain, but that’s getting better and I think all will be gone in another 2 or 3 months. Typically now I only have a little mild nausea some mornings and after I eat breakfast that goes away.

          What made it better – getting tested for the MTHFR gene and finding out I was a C677T heterozygote, which led to supplementing with the methylated forms of B vitamins. That also helped my neuropathy – I have some days now that there is no neuropathy in my feet and it has only truly bothered me a few days in the last 9 months; though I suspect I will have some lifetime neuropathy.

          The other thing that helped was absolutely refusing to take any acid reducing “medicine” like a Proton-pump inhibitor. I did take an H2 inhibitor for a month to give my esophagus a chance to heal (at doctor’s urging) but after that only took Tums for about 3 months nightly to aid sleep; then at need for another 6 months (but typically only a few times a month). Heartburn is almost never due to high acidity and that is another drug-company myth – they are treating the symptom not the cause.

          The final thing I did was take HCl tablets with lunch and dinner. I would take 2 with lunch and 1 at dinner most of the time for about a year – individual needs may vary; but based on studies I read more than 2 really doesn’t reduce your Ph that much. Again due to the antibiotic and nerve problems my gut wasn’t really producing enough acid and those low acid symptoms are basically identical to high acid symptoms. I haven’t felt the need to take these for about 9 months.

          I did develop tinnitus – about 15 months ago. It is still here but so quiet now that I am no longer bothered by it. I only ever notice it at night. I am hopeful it will go away in another 3 to 6 months altogether.

          I am not fully back to my old life in terms of activities. I do most of the things I used to do. The problem is planning. You never know when you are going to have a bad day. So, my wife and I do lots of spontaneous stuff.

          I used to do lots of backpack camping and outdoors activities that I have not resumed. My mountain bike hasn’t been used since I was floxed. Sadly I have a brand new tent that has never been set up that I bought a few days after I took my initial dose of Ciprofloxin almost 4 years ago. Maybe this summer.

          I pretty much eat what I want now; however I started eating mostly Paleo about 8 months ago. So, I don’t know if I was eating bread and sugary sweets how my stomach would react, but on vacation in April I cheated with some of those things in moderation and it was fine. In fact dairy products have always soothed my stomach and I still keep some yogurt in the fridge for nausea.

          As to medication – who knows. I am afraid too. Hope it is a looooong time before I need anything other than Tylenol. I tolerate that fine and have been okay with mild sedation for a colonoscopy and endoscopy since floxing. I suspect I will avoid all antibiotics unless it is a life and death situation and even then limit it to penicillin or amoxicillin. I will welcome death before I take another fluoroquinolone.

          Hopefully you will see a recovery story from me before long – but I want to be as well as I will ever be again before writing one (I get why some do it earlier, but that’s not for me) and while my pace of healing has slowed in the last 9 months it hasn’t stopped. I typically relapse in the fall (floxing anniversary) and spring. My relapse this spring was the return of the head pressure and some small increases in neuropathy, but overall the mildest relapse I have had. I am guessing it will be 12 to 18 more months; since I also want to be well for at least three months without a relapse before I write a recovery story.

        • Dee June 2, 2019 at 9:44 am

          AColeman. Thank you for sending me a lot of good information about how you healed your stomach!! I am so happy to hear that you are mostly recovered and on the verge of writing a recovery story hopefully soon!! I look forward to seeing your story down the road!! So it sounds like you took about 2 in a half years to mostly heal?? I hope your tinnitus will disappear soon and I am glad it has gotten quieter!! That is strange that it came on at 15 months? But at least it is improving!! Mine came on like gang busters at 3 months out after taking a half mg of melatonin! I didn’t react well to the melatonin and had an opposing reaction! Up all night, racing hear, extreme anxiety and finally severe horrible pulsating tinnitus set in the next morning. My Doc says my Gaba receptors were damaged and therefore didn’t respond normally to the melatonin. Instead it just fried my gaba receptors and they went bonkers!! Been a long slow recovery and repairing but I believe they are repairing!! I’ve heard Gaba receptors can take 2-4 years to repair?? Anyway I hope to see full repair in next few months!! My stomach nerves got damaged opposite of you! Instead they kick in high gear in the morning and literally empty me out until all is gone!! Crazy stuff! It is slowly getting better so I guess those nerves eventually heal I hope?? You sound so close to 100% healed and I hope that happens for you soon!!

        • A.Coleman June 3, 2019 at 8:07 am

          Dee – Good luck in your continued healing. But, I fear I may have painted too positive a picture of my healing. While I only have the one symptom that is highly impactful right now; I have been 80 to 90% healed twice before only to suffer relapses.

          Unfortunately, what tends to happen to me is a symptom gets better and then as part of a relapse a new one may appear. I have dealt with four major symptoms that were NOT symptoms I had when initially floxed. The heartburn came on a year post-floxing; I got severe debilitating neck pain 2 years post-floxing followed by the tinnitus around 2
          and 1/2 years post floxing and then the head pressure / lightheadedness at 3 years post-floxing. And I still have all those symptoms, except heart burn, to some degree. The neck pain and tinnitus are now very minor, but haven’t gone away completely.

          I am hopeful that this year finally there won’t be another new symptom at my 4 year floxing anniversary; but…..who knows. I think that there must still be toxins sequestered away in my body and when they are released various different systems are impacted and then healing has to happen all over.

          You will probably beat me to the finish line of healing and writing a recovery story – but I still firmly believe that ONE DAY I will be writing one too.

        • Mike June 3, 2019 at 8:41 am

          So, this has me curious. If you’re Floxed and these toxins are “sequestered” away (which to me is ridiculous, that’s not how it works), and are unchained back into the bloodstream – wouldn’t it then be remetabolized out of the body because it was “jarred” loose? See what I’m saying?

          I think what happens is it does damage, leaves the body and impairment happens at an undisclosed time. The “relapses” aren’t really relapses, it’s just still the effect the stuff had and is slowly tapering away. Anxiety is a huuuuuuge factor, as well.

  40. L May 30, 2019 at 3:35 pm Reply

    Not letting me reply to posts but PLEASE do NOT use or cite quacks watch as a source. There was a recent post re colloidal silver (which I use ALL the time). Quackwatch is against all natural treatments. I suspect it is big pharma related. It is just junk information.

    • Andrea May 30, 2019 at 4:16 pm Reply

      Hi L, I didn’t know this about quackwatch, I’ll look into It. But anyway, I’ve read quite a loro about colloidal silver in the last few months, and I’ve come to the conclusion that all the positive claims are exagerated, to say the least. At the beginning, I was interested in trying it, but after reading that there’s even a remote chance that I could turn into a smurf, I forgot about it…plus I was reading that continued internal use can damage your kidneys.

      • Andrea May 30, 2019 at 4:22 pm Reply

        “and I’ve come to the conclusion that all the positive claims are exagerated, to say the least. ”
        I’m saying this because, the only studies I’ve found, that shows some antibacterial properties are just in vitro.

        • L May 30, 2019 at 9:18 pm

          Having a hard time responding to posts. A good line of colloidal silver is sovereign silver. They have different formulations that I have used topically and also in a nebulizer

        • Barbara Arnold May 30, 2019 at 11:23 pm

          I’ve used colloidal silver for years now and I wouldn’t be without it. Oh and I havn’t gone blue. I take it with me on vacation as a protector against bugs. It cleared up a fungal infection on my big toenail in weeks, unlike other fungal products. You would have to drink a ton of it over a long period of time to go like a smurf. Be careful about posting things from ‘Quackwatch’ you could stop people from being helped.

        • mmec7 June 1, 2019 at 3:52 pm

          Dee – The top vitamin and alternative companies. The list comes from FitEyes, a glaucoma site. The list owner has gone to great pains to ID the topmost and most reliable companies. Think this will help : https://estore.fiteyes.com/pages/best_supplement_brands
          Thereafter a concerted search – Life Extension is well known, is not tied to pharma, is a tad expensive. They are good and range of products excellent. Will leave this with you. Take care –

      • mmec7 May 30, 2019 at 4:44 pm Reply

        Andrea – you will only turn into a ‘smurf’ if you drink glasses of it, every day and, over a long period of time, like, years ! All the cases cited referred to persons who were downing colloidal silver like it was some sort of elixir for longevity ! It is a mild antibacterial. Same as ‘silver spoon in the mouth’ – which is how the reference originated : silver spoon in the mouth was reckoned to keep away buggles. Might have done so…!
        I have been using colloidal silver for years, have found it excellent. Have recommended to friends and family, who have also found it to be efficacious – especially during winter months when the buggles are about. Just a couple of **sprays into the mouth. One does not drink it down like a glass of water or a cup of tea ! Just a spray. And very useful if hospital visiting, or going for a GP appoinment – spray before and after the visit. Will help keep you clear of viruses. As soon as the buggle season is over, put it away in your medicine cabinet. Keep away from kiddies exploration hands !

  41. mmec7 May 30, 2019 at 4:29 pm Reply

    Colloidal Silver : Have used it for many years – in the following manner :-
    Spray against winter buggles, couple of squishes in to the mouth. I do not come down with colds etc
    Spray when hospitalised, spray over locker, bed rails, table
    Spray on to hands on returning from shopping
    Spray on any odd cuts
    Spray on skin after removal of stitches

    Many years ago, colloidal silver was used to wipe out the eyes of the new born babe.
    Colloidal silver is excellent for wiping out the eyes of your pets and of horses – especially in summer, when flies head straight for eyes.

    I swear by my colloidal silver. When purchasing, please purchase from a reliable source. Do NOT buy through Amazon, you will not have a reliable provenance if you do so.

    As for Quackwatch…really. It is run by pharma. Is renowned for being unreliable.

    Please do not be wary about using colloidal silver – just don’t go drinking glasses of the stuff, it is NOT for gulping down. Yes, have heard the stories of the clonkers who swilled it down and then after a few years of doing so their skin turned a sort of grey colour. If one drinks quantities of carrot juice your skin will turn orange, yes, have been several such cases. Moderation. Use the spray dispenser for your colloidal use, and as for carrot juice, just eat the raw carrot

    • Dee May 30, 2019 at 7:22 pm Reply

      Mmec7. So what brand of colloidal silver do you recommend that is high quality? Where to order it also??

      • mmec7 June 1, 2019 at 2:43 pm Reply

        Dee – I have just checked out on the BigVits site – Hmmmmm No longer available; i.e. no longer doing Colloidal Silver. Know that the company was bought out (pharma ?) Now, many of the items I used to purchase are no longer available, or, are greatly reduced in potency. Nuisance. All is not lost. There is another good site, I will check it out.

        • Dee June 1, 2019 at 3:04 pm

          Mmec7. Do you have a first name I can call you? If you prefer not, no big deal. Thanks for checking into the colloidal silver. let me know what you find out about It. So did you actually recover from your floxing?? I hope so!!!

  42. mmec7 May 31, 2019 at 2:07 am Reply

    Dee – I use Higher Nature 10 PPM. Can be purchased through alternative and herbal outlets, like Mercola; BigVits.com; Herbs.com. I also purchase through my organic foods and products outlet, Catalyona 20 PPM – Catalyons is a French product, I live in France.
    You can buy 30 PPM and even higher (1000 PPM !) but would suggest sticking to 10 PPM, 20 PPM, or 30 PPM.
    I have used the Higher Nature for many years now. No problems.

  43. Lukasz June 1, 2019 at 11:40 am Reply

    Hey everyone. Long time. Hope you’re all doing alright. Question for those who reside in Ontario, Canada. Is there any place where Nembutal (Pentobarbital) can be purchased legally without a prescription? If anyone knows, please let me know. If you’d rather e-mail me… kiji7@hotmail.com. Thanks.

    • Lukasz June 1, 2019 at 8:38 pm Reply

      Also, does anyone have Teri CiproVictim’s e-mail? I know she’s on FB but I need to reach out to her by e-mail.

  44. Henk Noordhuizen June 2, 2019 at 6:17 am Reply

    I’ve posted an answer for mmec7,about CS,and tried so 3 times,and it wasn’t placed. The third time I got a message that I had placed this message before,so;I think that Akismet ( spam filter,used by WordPress) keeps it from being placed.Akismet control’s the messages for spam,but who control’s Akismet?

    • Donald Mowers June 3, 2019 at 9:03 am Reply

      Yup…….. Now it is getting to where one can’t place a comment without it being scrutinized and criticized.

      • Henk Noordhuizen June 3, 2019 at 9:28 am Reply

        Hi Don,long time no see. I hope you’re doing well.

        I tried to post my comment,once again.Got a message that I try to duplicate an earlier comment that I can’t find back,here;it didn’t show up,as far as I can see. Then I tried it another time,with some new lines at the start,but although everything seems fine,now,my message doesn’t seem to show up. Normally,after having submitted,the screen jumps to your new message,but now it jumps to the upper part of the page,time after time.After the “duplicate” message” it hangs on the window with my message,but now without the submit button.

        I’m not the only one who has troubles posting here; L. has this same problems (if I dont mix him up with another poster). I apreciate the good work of spam filters but,while one really anoying poster,using random names all the time,and with no text at all in his comments, gets away with it,my,and others poster’s messages are filtered out? In my opinion this has a negative inpact in this,otherwise,so usefull and appreciated website.

        I hope that Lisa noticed something being wrong,and is able to fix this problem soon.

        • Don M June 3, 2019 at 11:11 am

          Henk…………. When I started posting here I clicked on the box to approve of being sent an email each time there was a new post. That stopped so I reclicked on the box.
          I still did not get any notifications. Each time I posted I clicked on the box. I still get no notifications. It does not appear to be my spam filter. Oh well. So be it.
          Your comment about me “doing well”. As time progresses I seem to be picking up more strange problems and the weakness, fatigue and aches are increasing. Is it age or just more symptoms from past Cipro use catching up with me? As so many others have said……….. The medical establishment appears to be clueless about Fluoroquinolone Toxicity. I try to inform and discuss it with doctors and they seem to be clueless. They seem to just not be interested in learning the truth.
          I just learned about “cold laser therapy”. I understand that it has been around in the world for many years but here in the US it seems to be catching on in the past few years. The comments on it are pretty impressive. I am guessing that if it is as good as the comments say the reason for keeping it quiet here is “MONEY”. The big boys don’t want to let the cat out of the bag and hurt their revenue stream.
          What’s your opinion of it?

  45. Dee June 3, 2019 at 11:56 am Reply

    The big question is do we relapse or just keep cycling symptoms until this crap slowly detoxes and leaves our body?? I have read that FQs can remain in your tissues for a long time but I guess eventually leaves. The flox report says it takes a year in a half to decrease 5O%, 3 years for 75% and up to 6 years to actually leave . Who knows how accurate that is and if course you have to take into account we are all different at detoxing etc. I found that very interesting. My guess is that we keep cycling until it is gone and of course certain things can flare it up? Stress, fluoride, food or drink, meds etc???? I guess it is mostly a mystery how this poisons us and what the evolution is? We are all so different in our toxicity and ability to repair and detox!

    • Don M June 3, 2019 at 5:03 pm Reply

      I am floxed. Pretty obviously the reason I am on this site and commenting. After doing a lot of reading about the Fluoroquinolones I have come to the conclusion that once you get the qiunolone and fluoride on your body it never leaves. It permeates the DNA and mitochondria and is never completely washed out. Not very uplifting but I think it is not a matter of “recovery” but “remission”. Yes time does make most people better and some actually think they are “recovered”. But these same people will always tell you that this and that must be avoided or they have bad symptoms that may reoccur. To me that is not “recovery” it is “remission”. Bless those who are in remission and can manage to stay there.
      The people with the expertise (the manufacturers) to find out why Fluoroquinolones are what they are do not want to explore for answers. If they did they would be admitting that they have been hoaxing the public with misinformation for all these years. This is my opinion after spending a lot of time reading about Fluoroquinolones.

      • Mike June 3, 2019 at 6:08 pm Reply

        I don’t buy that for a second. First off, there is no diagnostic evidence to support that. These drugs get metabolized through the body, excreted and gone. The damage that they do occurs, of course, while they’re in your system.

        However, most people have symptoms delayed in onset. I’m Floxed right now. One Levofloxacin 27 days ago. I’m able to walk and move and do things, but still in pain and having anxiety and panic here and there. Once this leaves, the damage has been done. It depends on who you are and how much you take – for the most part.

        The body heals itself from the damage the medication does to you. It may take months, or it could take years. It’s very subjective. But to assume it “stays in you forever” is defeatist and unrealistic. No medication does that. And over a lifetime, you develop muscles and they heal. So whatever “tissue” it rests in is gone eventually, using that logic.

        It’s in, it’s out, the damage is done, you heal. The people you hear on this site that go into “relapses” generally don’t tell the whole story. Not everyone, but some.

        • Don M June 3, 2019 at 8:14 pm

          I knew it would open the gates for some controversy. That’s why I posted it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 4, 2019 at 3:09 am

          Mike,I agree with Don,here.Like him,I’ve read a lot about being floxed,and about the damage,caused by FQ’s. I have seen quite a lot of people,here,writing: “I’ve an 80% recovery”, or “I’ve an 90% recovery”,have never read about a full,100% recovery,where people have the same condition,and can do,eat,drink everything like they did before being floxed.We,or should I write,most of us have addapted another way of feeding ourselfs,avoiding everything that might contain fluoride,and have to be cautious,not to put a too high a burden on our tendons and muscles,even after 2 or more years,

          The FQ producers are not very willing to do research on what kind of permanent damage is caused by their “medicines);on the contrary: they are focussed on hiding every bit of information on that subject,and on rediculing everybody who tries to spread info on what is known,including new discoveries.

          E.G.Bayer has a hard time with over 13.000 cases pending against them,after they required Monsanto,and there’s even a possibility they’ll go bankrupt because of the Roundup cases,alone.Imagine,if hard proof would emerge that FQ’s like their Cipro and Avelox cause severe,and partly even permanent damage,and death,and they knew about it,al along? That might be the deathblow to the once so powerfull Bayer.

          Mike,be happy with every bit of recovery you’ll experience,but be aware of the fact that,after being floxed,your health and your body (and mind) will never be like before being floxed.It’s great to find an 80%,90%,some even claim a 98-99% recovery,but there will always be the risk of a relapse,and most causes of those relapses are unknown.A simple thing,like a cup of tea (fluoride) might cause it,as does too heavy excercise, and some other,known,causes,but way to often one gets a relapse without knowing what caused it.

          On this,I totally agree with Don:The known facts and experiences prove that there’s remission,for most,but a full recovery might be out of reach,except,maybe,for some very lucky,young people who were 100% healthy and in very good shape at the moment they were floxed (for a “suspected” UTI,or something else,not requiring an AB,in the first place).

        • Don M June 4, 2019 at 7:32 am

          Thank you Henk. …… I fully understand that it is not pleasant to realize that once floxed it is most likely for life. BUT. If one really (which it appears that most here don’t) studys the Fluoroquinoones one will find that by their very design they are supposed to break the DNA strands so that the bacteria can not reproduce. Hence the bacteria die off and since they are not being replaced the infection is cured. BUT. To think that the Fluoroquinolones are so “intelligently” selective that they only affect the bacterial DNA is (may I use the word) ludicrous. With the Fluoride added they have the ability penetrate the mitochondria and it is there that they can interfere with the DNA of the host body resulting in a multitude of symptoms. A bit of history on the development of Fluoroquinolones. Fluoroqunolones are based on the various forms of NALADIXIC ACID. Early on it was found that the Naladixic Acid did not penetrate the cells very well. It was also found that by adding Fluoride to the formulas they would become exponentially more able to penetrate cell tissue. Fluoride itself is a known poison ranked right along with mercury and lead. With the Fluoride added these antibiotics could now penetrate the brain too. Bottom line is that once these Fluoroquinolones have entered the mitochondria of ALL the cells of the body it is nearly impossible to eliminate it 100%. This is the reason that the list of reported symptoms is almost never ending. Consequently I still maintain that no one is really cured or recovered from Fluoroquinolone exposure but for many there is a very welcomed and blessed “remission” A remission that may last for the rest of their life or may terminate when the circumstances turn South.
          Do your research people and you may come to the conclusion that I have. If you are in remission or close “good”. Walk the line and keep yourself there.

    • A.Coleman June 5, 2019 at 1:45 pm Reply

      Dee, Mike, Don and Henk;

      I think that everyone here is right in some respect. Theoretically fluoroquinolones should be metabolized and removed from our system pretty quickly. However, as Dee notes the Flox Report indicates that it can take up to 6 years for all FQs to fully exit your body.

      FQs damage mitochondrial DNA and then evolution has to take over. Hopefully not all of your mito DNA are damaged and at least some of those molecules are in their native state. Those should be more “fit” in an evolutionary state. But this isn’t a situation where those bad cells are removed quickly; they still function, just poorly – as we all know. Let’s say you start out with 100 cells and 10% are “normal” and 90% are FQ impacted. If we assume that the unaffected cells have a fitness score of 1.0 and the FQ impacted have a fitness score of 0.9 then you can see that in the next generation 11% would be fit cells and 89% would be FQ impacted cells; the next generation 12% would be fit cells and 88% would be FQ impacted cells; etc…. This means it would take a very long time to get to mostly fit cells.

      This is obviously an overly simplistic approach; but given this approach you would see that even though the FQs molecules are gone their impact would almost never completely disappear. Due to various environmental changes that relative fitness score also bounces around contributing to the long time the effects of the FQs are triggered in our bodies.

      Combine the evolutionary fitness on mitochondrial DNA with the lengthy time the Flox Report and other sources suggests it can take for FQs to fully exit the body and you can see why recovery is very much like remission.

      Mike – BTW I see you are a new floxie and you are finding it hard to believe that the one tablet of Ciprofloxin you took could still be around in your body; but there is growing evidence to suggest that for floxies we don’t eliminate the fluoroquinolones like “normal” people do. There are several great comments and links to other articles that postulate how this happens in this URL – https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/05/23/fluoroquinolone-trouble-untangled Please read that blog and some of the links you will find there and you will learn more about how fluoroquinolones can stay “sequestered” in our bodies for a long time.

      So, to answer Dee’s question. I think relapses are real; they are triggered by two things changes in the environmental status quo that change the “fitness” of our FQ impacted and non-FQ impacted “fit” cells and by new fluoroquinolone exposure when our body attempts to remove these toxins that have lingered in our body over the years.

      And to dovetail with Don and Henk’s postulations – it is very hard to completely remove all the mitochondria that have been damaged by fluoroquinolones, so we may never be truly healed; hopefully most of us go into a new normal (remission, if you will) that represents 95% or more of our old abilities. But even when we are there it is possible that one of the above scenarios tilts the balance and we slide back down. I would LOVE for Lisa to reach out to everyone who wrote recovery stories (especially those who wrote them when they still had lots of problems), to see where they consider themselves today. I bet most of them have had relapses since; but continued healing. We do know that with a few exceptions they really aren’t part of the community today; so I have to believe that by large they still consider themselves recovered – and that is what matters!

      These are the reasons why I have not written a recovery story yet. I am around 90% healed – with only one symptom still impacting my day to day life, but I still have relapses and some times those are severe. I have not felt this good since being floxed; but I have been into the 80% plus category twice before only to slide back down due to a relapse. But I am not writing a recovery story until I get to 95% plus and stay at that level for at least 6 months (I typically have relapses, minor or major, every 6 or so months).

      In the end I think most of us will get well enough to be “healed”. I have been charting my recovery for the last three years (I am nearing my four year floxiversary) and using various regression testing models to try to estimate when I should be “well”. Those suggest that I should be as recovered as I am going to be sometime around January 1, 2020 with a 95% plus R – squared value. I SURE HOPE all those estimates are correct and my statistics bear that out.

      • L June 5, 2019 at 3:43 pm Reply

        Well stated. And regarding the injury from “only one,” there is the famous case written about in Bitter Bills, by investigative journalist (and personal hero 🙂 ) Stephen Fried, whose wife experienced severe neurological reactions after a single quinolone (and I believe that was before the fluoride was added!!!!). Also, some people are not aware that they HAVE taken the pills before. I began injury after only “one” pill (went on to take three more before I made the connection.) I thought that was my first go-round with flqs; but I got a pharmacy print out and low and behold, in years past, I had been given BOTH cipro and Levaquin at different times.

  46. Dee June 3, 2019 at 6:54 pm Reply

    Mike. I sure hope you are right!! I was pretty bummed reading that Don thought we never recover but go into remission. I truly don’t want to believe that. I understand everyone had thrust theory and I respect that. I just like to think optimistic and believe that full healing is possible!! I’m 2 years out probably 80-85% healed with 2 or 3 lingering symptoms left that I pray will disappear in a few months. Trying to think positive!!! If the flox report is accurate then this FQ will eventually detox out! 🙏🏻🙏🏻

    • Mike June 3, 2019 at 8:36 pm Reply

      You’ll heal. Being “Floxed” is one of the most terrifying things you can go through, because there is no medicine or magic cure to heal it.

      In fact, the best way to heal is to go old school: diet, exercise, education and meditation or breathing. I’m sure that would cure almost everyone on this site. Not all, but probably 98%.

      The reality is you’ve gotta want it. Like, you legitimately have to want it. I know I’m 27 days in from one pill. I have a Fitbit and I did 7.5 miles of walking yesterday and almost 11,000 steps. By any measure, I’m nowhere in the vicinity of where a lot of folks are here. But that pill did enough to hurt me and screw with my head and GI system.

      But I’m fighting back. For me and my two little girls.

      • Don M June 4, 2019 at 8:28 am Reply

        Go for it Mike. Hope and optimism are the best medicines.

  47. Attsy June 4, 2019 at 2:26 am Reply

    Hey guys, so I wrote before a while that I started to feel sick. Unfortunately I had another colon attack and in the end could not digest even water. I was taken to the hospital and hooked into nutrition’s IVs. And here comes the funny part, all my blood tests seems to be quite fine (last time they were not), stomach ultrasound of course negative. The truth is that this time it was same bad as I was floxed first time.
    And I don’t know what caused this!! I have been thinking about it very hardly and I don’t know. I don’t know why this happened. I am actually very stress free but I have stomach ache every day since I was floxed!! I tried to suggest that it was caused by antibiotics at the hospital to numerous doctors, they all believed I had anaphylaxis but they don’t believe I have ongoing symptoms. I am sure that it had to disturbed something in my colon (as biopsy proved that my colon is unable to digest lactose, gluten and sugar) but there is no visible inflammation although I have transglut IgA, level up (and maybe they went down now). I am now unsure what to eat and what to do. This colon attack lasted for 2 weeks straight. It is always the same, enormous sharp pain awakens me at night, then it continues for 6-8 hours, I have mild fever and sweat like crazy, sometimes I lose my consciousness then it subsides but still last for a few days.
    But after the IVs I got really better, also my joints stopped hurting, so I suspect my body is missing something but I don’t know what it is. I hardly doubt I will be able to live like this, if this continues I am simply done. I will end up on the street.
    I know this is not very positive post but believe me I thought I was getting better but this is still in my body, but god knows where. I am also scared that it is still “working” somewhere in my body and maybe years later it will cause something serious.
    Well I would appreciate a lot if someone from you (who also has stomach issues) could share what you eat during the day so I could try to do it same way.
    I would appreciate it, thank you.

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 4, 2019 at 3:27 am Reply

      Attsy,have you tried to live on,mainly,vegetables (bio!),for a while?Maybe with some added,healthy oils and fats,some (fatty) fish, and healthy carbs like sweet potatoes? Might that work for you?

      • Attsy June 4, 2019 at 5:01 am Reply

        Henk, this is what I tried at the beginning of the last week whan I was still at home. My mum had this idea actually. Unfortunately since then my stomach turned real mess and I started to vommit everything I ate and then even water. Today I am back home and ate just potatoes. In the evening I wil probably drink that nutrition drink.
        It usually works like this – I eat something and after some while my body sarts to think the food is enemy I am usually able to spot it and avoind the trigger and let my body “forget” and then I can eat it again. I mean I avoid a lot of food like citrus fruits, milk, caffeine, alcohol, some vegetable, almost all artificial sugar, almost no cookies, sweets, no chocolate. But as I continue I am able to eat almost nothing. So when my body strats to think that even rice is enemy it”s bad then….

  48. Dee June 4, 2019 at 8:47 am Reply

    Henk and Don. Wow! The thought that your body never completely gets rid of FQs and we only go into remission for the rest of our lives gives so many of us a lack of hope rather then hope. I am going to “respectfully” disagree with you as I believe the body is amazing and I believe that many Floxies can repair the damage done and detox the FQs out of their cells and tissues. I do believe it will take months to years depending on your toxicity and your ability to detox and repair. I would imagine for some Floxies complete recovery is very possible for others they may have to be ok with 80/90% recovery or unfortunately less. I have not read loads of scientific studies although I have read a few and I have read the 250 plus page flox report that actually followed a group of Floxies recovery and researched the toxicity and damage they FQs cause. I want to come to this site for hope and I am optimistic by nature but also willing to accept reality. I am not a young floxie. I am 63 and feel 80/85% healed at 2 years out. I accept and know that I will never be the same both mentally and physically as I know parts of my body were damaged that may never come back to my preflox days. BUT I continue to have hope and faith that my body will continue to repair , heal and actually detox most of the FQ out of my cells. According to the flox report for what it is worth FQs can leave your body almost completely after 5-6 years. I’m going to continue to believe in that and the amazing capabilities that the human body has. I am going to continue to speak up for hope and faith to completely heal! I believe we can and I want other Floxies reading this to believe we can too!! Floxie HOPE site this is!! May the two of you find continued healing as time moved forward. Peace

    • Don M June 4, 2019 at 10:02 am Reply

      Dee… Our comments were not put forth to destroy the hopes and optimism of readers. They were made so that people would look into the real facts about Fluoroquinolones. We each have our own belief about Fluorioquinolone Toxicity. That’s good because hope, optimism and determination are very important to living with our problems. You are right. The actual chemicals of Fluoroquinolones are cleared from the body in a few hours but the fact that (unlike other antibiotics) these antibiotics can infiltrate the mitochondria and affect the DNA and it is not something that vanishes over night. It is not that the Fluoroquinolone is still there. It is the damage left in the mitochondria that takes so long to try to repair. I don’t want to argue the issue but I just am stating the facts. You yourself are are saying you are not and may never be the same as you were before floxing. I would say that you are admitting that Fluoroquinolones can cause irreparable damage. We are all looking for a better day tomorrow,but knowing the truth never hurts anyone and many times can be very helpful. I am 85 and not sure that I will ever see that “better tomorrow”.

      • Attsy June 4, 2019 at 2:04 pm Reply

        Hi Don, I guess it is not only about older people. I am 30 and suffer well. I am also losing my hope. But the truth is that I was already sick before. 😦
        I still wonder how people recovered, what they have that I don’t have.

        • Don M June 4, 2019 at 2:36 pm

          Attsy…… Hang in there. If you are ambulatory or somewhat so you need to look on the brighter side of it all. Many are really seriously affected and even bed ridden. It may be a hard road ahead but one very important factor is “diversion”. The more you concentrate on your problems the bigger the hurt is. Educate yourself about the things that will help you. Then as I just said “diversion”. Figure out a way to get your mind off being floxed. Not an easy thing to do (especially at night when we should be sleeping) but an important part of coping with the problems caused by Fluoroquinolones. Fluoroquinolones are not going away because they have been and still are to profitable for the industry. Going forward it appears that it is going to be up to the individual to monitor what the doctor prescribes. The medical industry (doctors and pharmacists) are being lead around by the drug companies so we can no longer rely on them to protect us. I try to spread the word at every opportunity. I urge everyone to do the same.

        • Attsy June 4, 2019 at 2:45 pm

          Don, thank you for your words, I understand what you mean. It’s like a cycle. I am better then get colon attack I go to the doctor no real help, feeling frustrated then go to the internet searching for another advice (well probably there is none for me anymore), then get better, thinking less about it and then again I get colon attack and it is like this again and again. At first I was positive but now I am not sure because it physically hurts as hell. I do sometimes wish I can leave my body but everywhere I go my body and mind go with me. I do educate people around me too. The worst part is that I can’t work again because I lost my job due to this inability. For the first time now I am starting to be scared of food too.

        • Anna June 8, 2019 at 8:42 am

          I am 35, was 34 when floxed by ONE pill. It has maybe a little to do with age, but not entirely. I am super fit, healthy, and it took me 9 months to recover, and I still have some lingering inflammation. If you poison someone, or drop them off of a building, does age really matter? I also think many floxies may have autoimmune responses to the sicko medicine.

      • L June 4, 2019 at 4:56 pm Reply

        I have to say that since we don’t really know what happens, and why flqs seem to wreak so much havoc for so long, I would err on the side of optimism. Neither of us knows if the damage is permanent (except perhaps permanent nerve damage…but even then I am reminded of people who were told they would never walk again, only to prove their doctors wrong.) So, by holding out hope that this poison does eventually leave us alone, we have the added benefit of the energy of positive thinking. On the other hand, believing we will never be fixed only adds more stress, which in itself is not healthy or healing in any way, so I am not sure of what benefit there is to that line of thought. Yes, it is pretty well established by now that they damage mitochondrial DNA. But is it permanent? No one knows. If you do a simple search you can find information on mitochondrial DNA repair, even double strand breaks. https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/technical-documents/articles/biofiles/dna-damage-and-repair.html

        • Attsy June 4, 2019 at 11:20 pm

          Oki guys thank you for all your help. I decided that I won’t come here anymore/till I figure out what should be done.
          I think now I know a lot from you and maybe I only don’t know how to put it in use. Today my mind is quite better and much calmer after a good sleep which I didn’t have for so long. So let’s see.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 5, 2019 at 2:19 am

          Hi Attsy, I hope that things will improve for you.I wish you all the luck in the world,and please,keep in touch with us with updates on your condition,and to tell us what works for you (and maybe for others).You’re always welcome for questions to ask.

          P.s. Did you try a combination of Camomilla tea and Melatonin for sleep improvement,along with magnesium? This works quite well for me;still waking up tired but so much better than it was in the past.

        • L June 5, 2019 at 9:38 am

          Good idea, and so glad you got some sleep. Wishing you well.

        • A.Coleman June 5, 2019 at 2:06 pm

          L – I wrote a lengthy commentary about this topic above. But I wanted to give everyone some hope in a quick reply to your comment here. When I was initially floxed I had really bad neuropathy in my feet. Every waking moment was agony of burning and tingling. I used to pray that it would just get to the point that it wasn’t really painful with my shoes off – always better with the shoes off.

          Today, nearly 4 years post floxing my neuropathy is something that is gone completely some days (even with shoes on) and for the majority of the time it is something that I only notice if I concentrate about it. About 3 or 4 days a month on average it bothers me; though sometimes that is 6 to 8 days every other month. And this isn’t a case of mind over matter – the pain is gone / greatly reduced.

          Eventually, I think that the neuropathy in my feet will get to a level where it is normal for months at a time with minor periods of time it bothers me in between. I may not ever heal completely, but even now it is no longer a floxing symptom that I consider as impacting my day to day life. I have three other floxing sypmtoms that are not completely gone; but no longer impact my life and at least two of those I think will completely go away some day. I have only one symptom affecting my day to day life – though that is pretty debilitating right now – but eventually that will get better too.

        • L June 5, 2019 at 3:59 pm

          Good to hear. Many of my most horrific, life changing side effects are gone, but some things are permanent, like vision damage. I had/have peripheral neuropathy in my feet. It had gotten to where it was just the toes. It’s not pain, just numb, but annoying since I used to love foot massages! Recently it has gone back into the balls of my feet as well. Unfortunately the tinnitus is worse and loud. Especially cruel for someone who loved absolute quiet. A constant whooshing, humming, buzzing sound. I still get disgusting phantom scents and not sure if recent shoulder issues are related. Still dealing with some on again/off again knee issues, after it tore both my menisucus, but prolozone injections have helped immensely! Dealing with another odd congestion issue that effects nose/throat/lungs and many nights I am up til 3 or 4 because I can’t breathe. This is a tough one. My fear is that it is some weird cipro-induced auto immune thing. Have ruled out many things, seen 8 doctors, had many tests and therapies and no luck. Both my integrative cardiologist and an ENT (NON integrative no less!) both recommended a supervised fast. The place I was referred to then referred me to another place not too far away, but it would cost around $2,000 for a ten day stay. I don’t have the money. So this weekend I am going to do a three day water fast on my own and see if that nudges anything. A three day fast is supposed to reboot the immune system…..if this is indeed an immune problem. I’m hungry just thinking about it! I will let everyone know how it goes. (Fasts are not recommended for everyone, eg those with lupus and other diseases.) https://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/3-day-fast-resets-immune-system/

        • Bob June 5, 2019 at 6:40 pm

          I was floxed 6 years ago this month. My PN is worse than ever. I can only wear lose slippers and I can only walk very short distance on a hard surface. The burning is horrific. Any ideas what helped your PN?

        • Mike June 5, 2019 at 2:26 pm

          I just didn’t get Floxed as bad as a lot of people here did. I’m more in the Liz camp, who recovered after about five weeks. I’ve also spoken to Lisa on the topic, as well. She agrees this’ll pass quickly for me.

          The fact is I had an adverse reaction to the Levofloxacin 500mg tablet I took. That was over a month ago. I’ve had aches and pains since, but all of the symptoms are rapidly dissipating and now more background noise. I eat what I want, etc. I’ve had no problems.

          The key is eliminating anxiety and exercising. That’s literally 90% of the battle. Since this is highly individualistic and affects people so differently, there’s no right or wrong way to address this. But the fact is it does get metabolized out of your system. The damage that is suffered after the fact is a delayed response from the damage for some, nothing more. Mine was fast. This is why you see people write stories – like Liz – that recover so fast after taking only a single dose and never experience anything further. There’s factors involved: mental history, age, health, etc. But this isn’t “remission,” it’s healing. The body is working overtime to repair damage.

          I’m quite certain the fact I have felt all of the symptoms the last few weeks that have gotten less and less exponentially, in addition to no problems at all doing moderate lifting and walking 6 miles a day briskly let’s me know I’m (personally) very close to 95-99% there already. At this point, the remaining stuff is annoying, not debilitating (which it never was).

          I stopped after one pill because my reaction was immediate. And, based on my research, that’s actually rare. So I’m just glad that happened. But I do feel that dosage plays a huge role in this process, in combination with preexisting health deficiencies.

        • A.Coleman June 6, 2019 at 7:48 am


          Sorry I don’t have a single magic bullet that has helped my neuropathy. I believe that my recovery is a combination of four factors. First B vitamins – and the right form (I am a C677T MTHFR heterozygote; so taking the methylated B vitamins was very important). Second Magnesium and LOTS of Mg. Today I take 400 mg chelated Mg daily, but in the past I was taking as much as 800 mg daily. On top of that I either take Epsom salt baths in the tub or using a foot bath at least two times a week. Third – Time. Lots of ups and downs but generally better with time. Finally – never give up. I have been depressed and despondent for days and even weeks a couple of times; but I always have believed that I was getting better. I have had two major and 6 minor relapses since I was floxed in addition to the day to day ups and downs. What helped me was starting to chart this and looking at the bigger picture – months and years.

          If I had to call out one thing I would say it is the Epsom salt baths. If you use a foot bath it isn’t hard to soak your feet for a half hour every day. I typically supersaturate the water with Mg then soak. Then the next day dump the water in a big pot, heat it up again and repeat. I only start over after six or so times of using the same water. But I think full emersion baths help too – so much more skin area is exposed to the Epsom salts in the tub. My current protocol is full emersion baths twice a week and foot baths when I get flares.

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