Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

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23,580 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Mike June 4, 2019 at 10:16 am Reply

    I’m a 37 year-old male. I was fit and healthy prior to getting Floxed. On May 7th (so approximately four weeks to the day), I took only one (1) Levofloxicin 500mg tablet. I noticed immediate issues, and discontinued it after one pill.

    Since then, here is what I feel:

    1. Tendon pain.
    2. Muscle aches (mostly slight, but mild overall).
    3. Fatigue.
    4. Headaches.
    5. Brain fog.
    6. Vision and hearing sensitivity.
    7. Slight depersonalization.
    8. Anxiety and some panic.
    9. Chest discomfort.
    10. Neuropathy.

    Since then, here’s what I can *do*:

    1. I’ve been walking anywhere between 4 and 7 miles a day.
    2. 10,000 steps a day.
    3. Playing with kids and trying to enjoy life.
    4. Working and focusing as best as possible.
    5. Taking Magnesium Glycinate, CoQ10 and my daily shakes and vitamins.
    6. Eating as healthy as possible.

    So, I guess my question is this: Since I only took one pill four weeks ago, and I’m able to do the things above, does it seem plausible that I will heal fully from this? I mean, I’ve read the stories and understand first-hand the side effects, but it seems by contrast I was very mildly Floxed – and lucky I dumped the whole bottle down the toilet.


    • Lukasz June 4, 2019 at 11:24 am Reply

      Consider yourself ‘lucky’. Some of us are hanging on by a thread and have lost years to these drugs. Seeing as you took only 1 pill, I’d say your chances of recovering are good.

      • Lukasz June 4, 2019 at 11:28 am Reply

        Also, it shocks me that this evil empire is still out to destroy lives. I wonder when it will end? How many more lives will be destroyed before these evil scumbags are defeated?

        • Jane Jennings June 24, 2019 at 7:22 am

          prison is too good for these bastards

      • Mike June 4, 2019 at 1:14 pm Reply

        But is that lucky? I mean, I guess so. I just see so many people who have taken two or three plus doses.

        What do things look like in general for a one doser? A month to a couple months?

        • Don M June 4, 2019 at 3:13 pm

          What do things look like in general for a one doser? No one knows the answer to that question. Only time and your personal experience will answer it. Along with maintaining a healthy life style the best thing to do is get on the Internet and learn all you can about treating Fluoroquinolone Toxicity. There is good information there and bad information there. What I have done is look at it all and when multiple sources converge at the same point it is what I look at. Avoid the things that converge on the bad and look toward the things that converge on the good. The next thing is “divergence”. Do the things you can and avoid dwelling on the problems that Fluoroquinolones are causing you. Just a bit of my history. 59 years ago I picked up a simple UTI. Because it was improperly treated by a young doctor it became chronic. For the next 25 years I was shuffled among 7 different Urologists, 3 infectious disease doctors and a couple of Gastroenterologist because the antibiotics were messing me up. I have no idea how many different antibiotics I was given with no results. In 1985 Cipro came along. I was involved in the clinical trials of it. It cured my problem with the UTI. For the next 30+ years I took Cipro every time I had a UTI flare up. Through the years I may have taken as many as 1,000 Cipro pills. From the first pills I noticed that I didn’t feel the same as before or quite right. Not one doctor in 30+ years ever warned me of the possible problems with Cipro. They never connected my complains to the Cipro. I did not know. I learned about the downside of Cipro from the Interned and never from a doctor. I guess I have been one who tolerated the Fluoroquinolones. Now I am 85 and it has caught up with me. I am floxed and must deal with the rolling list of problems that Fluoroquinolones can cause.

        • Mike June 4, 2019 at 3:29 pm

          Well, I’m able to move my legs without hardly any trouble. It’s 4 weeks out and my symptoms are receding slowly. I’m an avid exerciser and veteran.

          I’m just lucky my symptoms were identified quickly. If I can walk 5-7 miles a day and do moderate physical activity, I’m pretty sure I’ll be fine.

          Warrior mentality.

        • Madge Hirsch June 6, 2019 at 12:39 pm

          Being able to exercise without too much pain is a definite plus. Exercise builds new mitochondria so any that have been damaged by the drug will be replaced. That is not the case for many of us where exercise or just being active has to be set against the risk of tendon rupture. Only time will tell how much the one pill damaged you. What I would say is be on the lookout for tendon pain and swelling and at the first sign rest. Ruptures have occurred months or even years after taking fluoroquinolones. And please quit with the warrior mentality crap. I actually think it is offensive to those who would love to just be able to take a short walk but are too physically damaged to do so..

        • L June 6, 2019 at 12:55 pm

          Thanks Madge for that. I too had that reaction to the “warrior mentality” comment. It’s hard enough when some of us have endured what can only be labeled torture both physically and mentally, and were unsure day to day if we would even live…to not get the support we desperately need from family or friends. But having someone who has been floxed just not get it takes it to another level. I have run out of words in trying to explain what I have endured.

        • Anna June 8, 2019 at 8:37 am

          I took one 500mg Cipro pill, and had an ER visit for eye emergency, and had trouble walking /exercising and feeling normal for about 9 months. I feel better now, I’ve pretty much recovered. The only thing left lingering in one swollen eye muscle, and weird sinus type pressure around eyes that I never had before. I would say the pill stripped or damaged something in the structure of the sinus or orbital area, which is why it has lingered longer. Keeping inflammation in an area can be very destructive to recovery; unfortunately, the floxed are not supposed to have steroids for inflammation.

    • Virginia June 4, 2019 at 5:25 pm Reply

      Hi Mike. It’s so hard to say how long your recovery will be. Every person is different in their timeline of healing. But since you took just one pill and are fairly young, you have a good chance of healing soon (a vague and relative term!). You mention tendon pain: if that pain is in your legs or ankles (FQs often target ankle tendons) please don’t overdo the walking or you could get a tendon rupture. Let pain be your guide and never push past pain. You were very smart to throw away your pills after taking just one, and to be taking the supplements you are on.

      • Mike June 21, 2019 at 11:44 am Reply

        Do neurological symptoms go away?

        • Jane Jennings June 27, 2019 at 2:52 pm

          does peripheral neuropathy due to meds go away does anyone know [please??????l

        • L June 27, 2019 at 3:48 pm

          maybe. It depends. There is a black box warning regarding permanent nerve damage from the fluoroquinolones. I have had some nerve damage go away, and some not.

    • Don M June 4, 2019 at 6:11 pm Reply

      Levoquin or Levofloxacin is at the top of the list (of those still on the market) for being the worst one. After Cipro it was determined that the Fluoroquinolone could be made stronger and able to burro deeper into the cells of the body by adding an additional molecule of Fluoride. A derivative of the Ofloxacin formula was used and the additional molecule of Fluoride was added. Wala!! Now we have a new antibiotic that will be stronger and only need to be taken once daily. It will also be more effective than Cipro against gram positive organisms.

      • Henk Noordhuizen June 5, 2019 at 12:42 am Reply

        Hi Don,that’s where things went wrong.The theory was that the carbon bound fluoride would be excreted by the body,untouched,but it didn’t take long to discover that,under certain circumstances,the fluoride looses it’s binding and starts to wreck havoc on the human cells.Was the fluoride ment for damaging the bacterial DNA,now it does the same with the human DNA,both mitochondrial and nuclear,while damaging the mitochondria as well.While the damage,these “fluor-fortified” AB’s cause is getting more obvious every day,there is no turning back because there’s so much AB-resistance of pathogenic bacteria,already.

        There is a possible solution,but the FQ’s are still making too much money,and these kind of blockbusters will,despite the dangers,be kept on the market for as long as possible.So,this solution will be kept on the bench untill the FQ’s are banned,or got so unpopular that the demand,and then the prices drop.So,there’s hope on safer AB’s,but that weill take a while.

        This solution? Is there a way to make more effective,and safer AB’s? Yes,there is.A while ago,because of the MRSA-bacteria,and the last AB which could handle it,getting less effective,scientists decided to ad some colloïdal silver to it,and YES,that worked! The MRSA was sensitive to this AB again!

        One of the commentors to this publication wondered why they hadn’t tested what the CS on it’s own would do;would it be able to kill the MRSA,without this in-effective AB added? The simple answer,and everybody knows: CS is not patentable (and,thanks to Bob Beck,everybody can make it,HQ, at home in a simple way.) So,it might be possible that those same researchers have tested CS on it;s own,and that may have shown to be effective,but probably we’ll never know.

        • Don M June 5, 2019 at 8:20 am

          Henk…….. Thanks for your comments. your comments about Colloidal Silver are right on. It has been tested as an add on and found that many antibiotics that had lost their effectiveness became effective again when Colloidal Silver was added. You are also right about the fact that since it can not be patented the drug companies try hard to keep it swept under the rug. I use Colloidal Silver and have for over 7 years. I make my own to about 10 to 20 PPM. I use it many different places around the house. Laundry is a great place. I soak socks in it to make them more antibacterial. Pillow cases is another. It is advertised to be effective against over 630 different pathogens and because of the way silver works none of them can become resistant to it. Why? A simple explanation is that among other things it chokes off the oxygen supply to the pathogen. Because it works this way it is effective against bacteria, viruses and fungus. I have found that it is really effective against food poisoning because it is going directly into the stomach and intestinal tract where the problem is. Using 1 ounce immediately and then and ounce again at one hour and another at 2 hours and another at 3 hours. Follow it with a couple more doses and within just a few hours the food poisoning is over. This thing about it causing Argyria is a moot thing today. One would have to drink it by the glass full daily for a long time for it to take affect. Before it was found how to make CS by the electric process doctors would grind up silver and mix it with water to give to their patients. Doing it this way made the particles of silver so large that they did not pass through the system and collected under the skin. Exposure to sun caused the skin to turn blue because the silver was actually tarnishing. ………. Bottom line. Silver (it is used commercially many places and by NASA) is a very effective sleeper antibiotic because of the ease of making it yourself so inexpensively.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 5, 2019 at 9:20 am

          You’re right,Don;they use CS to make their patented AB’s effective,again,and saleable. I’ve read that,although Nasa tested CS,and found it to be effective ,they choose for chloridation.

          I make my own,for 13-15 years,now,first the simple way,with 3 9-volt batteries,than with a 220 to 30 volt adapter,with a resistor,to lower the current. I built the Blood Purifier without the CS option,but after very good experiences with CS,the Blood Purifier and the Magnetic Pulser I bought the devices from Sota,because those are more practical and durable (the capacitor of those old photo flashes I use for my home build MP’s wear out after 10K-20K flashes;the one from Sota lasts way longer).

          I make my CS 5-10 PPM;that’s enough for most purposes,and mainly use it topical.Only if needed I consume it (10PPM) in small quantities,combined with the MP. The fast wound healing,without infection amazes me,and others,time after time;my Polish neighbour became a happy user,recently,after a few try-outs.

          Argyria is caused by too big particles. The old grinding methode isn’t the only way to get this big particles;adding salt to speed up the electrolyse is another one.And binding the silver to nitrates or proteins,like done in the past,by farmacists,is the most notorious way to create smurfs. Before these methodes were used,most Argyria cases were from people,working in the silver mines and -industry.

          Rosemary Jacobs,the most known fear mongering smurf,used silver eyedrops (silver nitrate),,and some other Argyria cases are caused by poorly made CS (most of the time with added salt)and consumed in large quantities,over a long period.When you follow the right CS rules (high quality,only when necessary),the risk of Argyria is extremely small.And compared to FQ’s,and even the somewhat safer,other AB’s,

          It’s the same,old farma-trick,over,and over again: first,they tell you it;s useless,ineffective and dangerous,untill it’s turned into a prescribtion drug (safe,and very effective,of course,and legal),and only available by prescribtion of an alophatic doctor,and for absurd prices.Cannabis,CS,etc.,the list gets longer and longer now they are trying to patent the herbs and other “alternative” medicines and remidies,most of them used for ages.

        • Krabiwi June 5, 2019 at 12:43 pm

          Henk, can you provide a study which supports the following statement: ” it didn’t take long to discover that,under certain circumstances,the fluoride looses it’s binding and starts to wreck havoc on the human cells.”

          Who discovered and proved this?

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 5, 2019 at 1:50 pm

          I’ll try to find it back.It shows a list if medicines which are “fluor fortified” and known to,under certain circumstances,”loose” their fluoride. Cipro is on that list,and so is Flecainide. My doc had just received a letter advsing her NOT to prescribe both of them together,but did that,anyway.And,when I told her,a week later,that I had to stop taking the Cipro after 2 days because of severe adverse reactions,she got angry on me.That was in sept.2016,and my problems are still not over.In remission,lijke Don wrote,but not 100% recovered.

          As soon as I have time I’ll try to find that list back,and,if found,place the link here It might have grown,since I’ve seen it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 5, 2019 at 1:58 pm

          Here is an article about that problem with FQ’s and other fluoridated medicines:


          Did not yet find the list;it might be on this fluoridealert website,too.

        • L June 5, 2019 at 3:45 pm

          another index of fluoridated drugs by type https://www.slweb.org/ftrcfluorinatedpharm.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 6, 2019 at 1:56 am

          Thanks,L.;I was the floxie who discovered this website and put the link here,on FloxieHope,more than once ;-)) Thanks,anyway,for those who still don’t know Slweb.org.:-))

          But I didn’t find the list of medicines with Fluoride,that are known to “loose” it’s Fluoride,back.I think I have placed a link to that website,as well,but quite a long time ago.I hope,somebody remembers,and still has the link for us.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 6, 2019 at 3:55 am

          It might have bin this article,with a short list.The sources are all mentioned,as well:


          More info on slweb.org and a growing list of fluoridated medicines as well.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 6, 2019 at 4:00 am

          Here is another link,also with the publications listed:


        • Henk Noordhuizen June 6, 2019 at 4:06 am

          “Drugs that are known to break down into fluoride ion include: fluorinated anesthetics, Cipro, Niflumic acid, Flecainide, and Voriconazole. It is possible, and indeed likely, that other drugs do so as well, but have not yet been discovered.”

          Guess,who are the guinea pigs :-((

        • Krabiwi June 8, 2019 at 10:16 am


          That’s not a primary source, but a blog, pls provide exact study/paper and quote where they found that Fluor atom in position 6 of a quinolone ring can break out of structure.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 8, 2019 at 11:26 am

          Why would I? When you find this so important,do a search on it,yourself. I,for me,personally,find being floxied convincing enough.Symptoms of being floxed are a good lead,as well;all indicate a fluoride poisoning.

          I’m not so much interested in the causes,but in possible ways to recover,as far as possible,and deal with left-over symptoms in the most practical and comfortable way.

        • Krabiwi June 8, 2019 at 1:17 pm

          There is no scientific proof for a fluoride poisoning. All recent papers indicate a mitochondrial DNA damage as main pathology:

          “Bactericidal Antibiotics Induce Mitochondrial Dysfunction and Oxidative Damage in Mammalian Cells”

          “Delayed cytotoxicity and cleavage of mitochondrial DNA in ciprofloxacin-treated mammalian cells.”

          “Ciprofloxacin impairs mitochondrial DNA replication initiation through inhibition of Topoisomerase 2”

          “Treatment of the Fluoroquinolone-Associated Disability: The Pathobiochemical Implications.”

          This also explains all symtoms and why antioxidative therapy works in many cases as long mtDNA damage is under a certain threshold.

        • L June 8, 2019 at 6:19 pm

          Fluoride allows a drug to cross the blood brain barrier, so of COURSE it would increase injury. I am just grabbing the first article I see, but I am sure you can find sufficient information out there. https://www.naturalnews.com/055455_fluoridated_medications_prescription_drugs_blood-brain_barrier.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 9, 2019 at 3:03 am

          L.,the NaturalNews writers,Mike Adams,to begin with,ususally tend to exaggerate things,BUT my lead you to more reliable sources.

        • L June 9, 2019 at 9:24 am

          I just grabbed the first article. There are plenty out there

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 9, 2019 at 2:56 am

          Krabiwi,mitochondrial DNA damage,and damage to nuclear DNA and the mitochondria,itself are SYMPTOMS,and fluoride (poisoning) is the main CAUSE. Mitochondrial DNA damage is not a pathogen (but a symptom),bacteria,virusses (germs) are.pathogenes.And Fluoride is one of the most aggresive poisons,human kind knows.There is,indeed,literature on several Fluoride-“fortified” medicines,like the FQ’s,loosing part of their Fluorine;you’ll have to do a better search on the subject.

        • Krabiwi June 9, 2019 at 12:05 pm

          L., correct because of Fluorine atom in position 6, FQ’s can pass blood-brain-barrier and reach brain cells and their mitochondira what can lead to neurological symptoms. This has nothing to do with a fluoride poisoning, but bio chemics as Fluorine is bond tight into positions 6 of quinolone ring structure with a melting point of 200°C. Fluorine likely opens specific pathways via cellular ion channels and that’s why FQ’s can penetrate cellular tissue deeply. Maybe also some toxic fluorine metabolites can occur during phase I detoxification, but there is still no scientific evidence for that.

        • Krabiwi June 9, 2019 at 12:24 pm

          @Henk “mitochondrial DNA damage,and damage to nuclear DNA and the mitochondria,itself are SYMPTOMS,and fluoride (poisoning) is the main CAUSE.”

          Refering to the FQAD papers above, the main cause of mtDNA damage is oxidative stress. Because reactive oxygen species oxidizes DNA amino acids and alters them chemically by providing an electron to them. Fluoride poisoning isn’t even mentioned in any paper, but feel free to provide a scientific paper which supports your theory.

          “Mitochondrial DNA damage is not a pathogen (but a symptom)”
          That’s wrong, damaged mtDNA leads to increased oxidative stress which damages even more mtDNA in a vicious circle, it’s cause and symptom.

          “,like the FQ’s,loosing part of their Fluorine”
          Pls provide papers to prove this statement.

          Also there are patients which have no toxic symptomes after a 30 day course with high FQ dose, how does this fit into your fluoride poisoning theory?

          Pls read (and understand) the recent papers linked above, everything is explained there in detail.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 9, 2019 at 3:05 pm

          Krabiwi,is it really so hard to understand (or accept) that I’m not at all interested in “how it happened” but in “THAT it happened”.And in options for harm reduction.

          I’m not at all interested in your “Mensa” game,as well;saw you do the same on the german website you mentioned.

          You came to FloxieHope to ask for help? No;you just came her to show of your brilliance. Well;I’m not interested in your brilliance;untill now you didn’t write anything usefull for people,coming here and asking for help.

          Don’t know the difference between the word “pathogen” and the word “cause”? Well,now you disappoint me.

          It is,untill now,not fully understood why FQ’s “leak”,sometimes,in some people,fluoride ions;one of the possible causes is a too low,or too high Selenium level. Do a search on that;you might find something usefull.

          When you’re here to learn,and to help each other,you’re on the right place. When you’re only here to blind us with your brilliance,you’d better go to a Mensa group.Greetings.

        • Krabiwi June 16, 2019 at 9:55 am

          Listen Henk, as I am already 90% recovered I am not here anymore to seek for help, but to provide methods for harm reduction based on science and not speculate about what could be or couldn’t be.

          “I’m not at all interested in your “Mensa” game,as well;saw you do the same on the german website you mentioned.”
          You seriously consider scientific work as a “game” and deny papers? That way you will never understand what FQ-toxicity really is.

          “Well;I’m not interested in your brilliance;untill now you didn’t write anything usefull for people,coming here and asking for help.”
          You spread false theories which are based on nothing, but your believes and with this you can harm others who still seek for help and get on the wrong path.

          “It is,untill now,not fully understood why FQ’s “leak”,sometimes,in some people,fluoride ions;”
          Once again, pls prove your theory with scientific papers as I did above to keep a certain scientific level. I am really interested in that fluoride poisoning theory, but I need some scientific papers as a base.

          “When you’re here to learn,and to help each other,you’re on the right place. When you’re only here to blind us with your brilliance,you’d better go to a Mensa group”

          Henk, why do you have to get personal towards me? I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 16, 2019 at 12:00 pm

          “Ciprofloxacin administration always results in elevated serum fluoride levels.12 In a series of tests evaluating the safety of ciprofloxacin in children, serum fluoride levels increased after 12 hours in 79 percent of the children; on day 7 the 24-hour urinary fluoride excretion was higher in 88.9 percent of children observed.12”


          Another research paper (the one I cannot find back,at the moment) found an estimate of up to 25% of the fluorid intake by Cipro and/or other FQ’s,is excreted in stools and urine as FREE fluorid ions.And that’s a lot of Fluorid,and more than enough to talk about Fluoride poisoning,and to explain much of the FQ damage.

    • Krabiwi June 18, 2019 at 10:46 am Reply

      Dear Henk, your quote refers to this paper from 1991:

      So fluoride levels increased slightly in children, however they don’t mention a fluoride poisoning and instead even state that FQ’s would be safe for children:

      “Arthralgia resolved in all children. Some of these children were given subsequent courses of ciprofloxacin with no complaints of arthralgia. Overall, the safety profile of ciprofloxacin in children is not substantially different from that of adults.”

      Moreover it proves that fluoride is excreted by urination, so it doesn’t stick in the body but leaves it.

      Today we know that FQ’s are highly dangerous, especially for children.

      Where does this paper explicitly mention a fluoride poisoning?

      Fluoride poisoning is dosage dependent, however we have victims which are disabled for life after a single pill, as well as patients which haven’t any toxic reation after a 30 days course. How do you explain that?

      “Another research paper (the one I cannot find back,at the moment) found an estimate of up to 25% of the fluorid intake by Cipro and/or other FQ’s,is excreted in stools and urine as FREE fluorid ions”
      Please prove it and name the paper. Thanks.

      • Henk Noordhuizen June 18, 2019 at 12:09 pm Reply

        Still “Troling for Glory” ,Krabiwi? And accusing me of being “personal”,while you started attacking me,and my opinions,in the first place,and still do so? Sorry,of “being personal”,just by responding to you,and your “not so personal” and quite annoying messages.

        No,I didn’t refer to that paper;I sent you,and others,a link to a webpage,which has info about the roll of fluoride in FQ reverse reactions,and a list of links on that page,to the original sources.

        “Overall, the safety profile of ciprofloxacin in children is not substantially different from that of adults.”

        So,where does it state that Cipro is safe? It doesn’t! Three lines down you write,yourself:”Today we know that FQ’s are highly dangerous, especially for children.”

        “Moreover it proves that fluoride is excreted by urination, so it doesn’t stick in the body but leaves it.”

        Yes,after having wrecked havoc on mitochondia,and mitochondrial and nuclear DNA,tendons,etc. Just like workers,leaving for home,after having done their job for the day.

        “Fluoride poisoning is dosage dependent, however we have victims which are disabled for life after a single pill, as well as patients which haven’t any toxic reation after a 30 days course. How do you explain that?”

        Do you want me to answer questions even the medical society can’t answer,yet? Or doesn’t want to answer?

        “Another research paper (the one I cannot find back,at the moment) found an estimate of up to 25% of the fluorid intake by Cipro and/or other FQ’s,is excreted in stools and urine as FREE fluorid ions”
        Please prove it and name the paper. Thanks.

        I don’t need to prove anything at all to you,do I? And I certainly won’t. I may have placed that link at the moment I found it,but that will be quite a while ago.If,then you might find it by reading older messages. Good luck!

        By the way,I,myself,and probably other floxies as well,am still waiting for (the first of) your golden advices.Would be great to hear something usefull,after all the critics :-))

        • Kraibiw July 2, 2019 at 2:31 pm

          Dear Henk, why do you spam a self help forum with your unscientifical believes and risk the health of other people?

          It’s a common issue in flox communities that the chronical crippled people who couldn’t help themself and didn’t recover at some point want to dominate the debate and give their bad advice to new ones. I would never take advice from somenone who was unable to heal himself, would you?

          I don’t attack you, all I asked for scientific prove for your statements. If there is evidence for a fluoride poisoning I of course want to know it as I gather as much relevant papers as possible. As you can’t deliver them we must assume that there are none, so long your statements are based on believes.

          If we hunt ghosts who proved to be false in the long end and lead us in the worng direction we risk our health and lifes.

          “No,I didn’t refer to that paper;I sent you,and others,a link to a webpage,which has info about the roll of fluoride in FQ reverse reactions,and a list of links on that page,to the original sources.”
          I checked the sources of that blog and yes that study above is the one mention in that blog, how do want to understand a complex pathology if you are unable to do basic research?

          “I don’t need to prove anything at all to you,do I? And I certainly won’t. I may have placed that link at the moment I found it,but that will be quite a while ago.”
          Pls spare me your excuses, you are simply unable to prove it. If there would be one paper I would know it already as I read everything regarding Flox.

          “By the way,I,myself,and probably other floxies as well,am still waiting for (the first of) your golden advices.Would be great to hear something usefull,after all the critics ”

          Pls spare me your desperate sarcasm. Anyway here is the advice:

          Ketosis. Cutting out wheat flour and sugars, empty carbs in general and consiquently. Eating seed, nuts, veggie.
          Intermittent fasting. Protein Whey. Supplement of all vitamins and trace elements, especially Mg as it’s important antioxidant cofactor.

          It’s called antioxidative mitochondrial therapy, maximizing antioxidant enzymes, amino acids for repair and minimizing ROS. In that state a body maximizes autophagy and mitophagy and removes deleted mtDNA copies preventing them from proliferating. Damaged mtDNA is the poison we carry in us, it’s even worse than poison as it proliferates with every mitochondrial division.

          There is no single magic pill, “therapy” is to put your body into a state where it can heal over the years.

          It doesn’t matter where mtDNA deletion comes from, so no matter if flox, bad lifestyle with empty carbs, poisons, other meds or radiation.

          That’s basically what many floxies with very fast recovery stories on floxiehope did, it’s based on scientific evidence. Of course it can fail if the damage is already too progressed because of too much oxidative stress which deletes mtDNA further over time to a point of no return.

          Of course age, natural NAD+ and stemcell pool are also factors which contribute.

          Brought me back on my feet within 6 Month after a severe crippling onset reaction with CFS, wheelchair and every single symptom which is common for flox. Now 14 Month out I am back to 90% and in some areas I am already better than pre flox, as mitochondria are most important for every process in your body and I am sure they were already damaged before to some extend due to bad lifestyle, empty carbs and lack of nutrition.

        • selcem ersoy July 3, 2019 at 12:21 am

          What do you think about Mitoq supplement for antioxidative mitochondrial therapy?

        • selcem July 19, 2019 at 1:42 am

          Hello Henk, my question might be skipped What do you think about mitoq supplement for mithocondrial therapy? I see many people got benefit from it, but I wonder long term risks, or side effects. I can tell you ı am taking 100 mg. Solar Coq10 daily since 1 year.

        • Henk Noordhuizen July 19, 2019 at 2:47 am

          Hi Selcem,I think I gave an answer to that question,already,but sometimes postings get lost,here.I did an other search for it,and my opinion is that the claims for this Q10 form are highly exaggerated.On the makers website,they claim over 350 peer reviewed articles,and one website claimed it is 847 times more effective than other Q10 supps.Well,then it’s all the more supprising that it’s quite hard to find just a few of those articles (I found a handfull on Pubmed),and because absorption of any substance differs from person to person,and is dependent of a lot of different factors,so the claim of 847 times as affective is a joke.

          By the way:untill now there’s no ADH (how much you need,daily) for this product.

          For people,hoping to stop aging with help of Mitoquinone Mesylate,here is a downer:


          In fact,I can’t find any proof of Mitoq,being much more effective than other Q10 supplements (which are also quite expensive).Solgar is a company ,known for their high quality products; I cannot find any reason to switch to Mitoq,because of the hype they created.Q10 supps are apsorbed better if taken with oil/fat.

          The cheapest way to get your Co-enzym Q10? Using a good vitamine B Complex supp,and eating fish,organ meat (liver),and enough (bio) vegetables to keep your minerals on level.In this way your body will make all the Q10 it needs all the Q10 it needs. That’s the reason I never used any Q10 supp,except for the one time I gave it a try,long ago,when the Q10 hype just started.Didn’t notice the smallest bit of positive effect;just the negative effect,in my wallet.

  2. Alen Edward June 4, 2019 at 2:31 pm Reply

    In the past year, the largest number of payouts (81%) came from websites vulnerabilities, followed by hardware (7%) and API (6%).


    Here are the top skills that MyP.I hackers currently have, according to the report:

    Web application (96%)
    Network pen testing (85%)
    API assessment (79%)
    Social engineering (79%)
    Source code analysis (78%)
    Mobile: Android (76%)
    Cryptography (67%)
    Binary analysis and reverse engineering (63%)
    Mobile/iOS application (57%)
    OS/Firmware testing (51%)
    Malware analysis (49%)
    IoT/Embedded device (49%)
    Hardware hacking (45%)
    Mobile: BBRY/WINMO (36%)
    Vehicle testing (26%)


    • Harper June 4, 2019 at 2:37 pm Reply

      Thank you so much MyP.I [MY PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR]God bless, i dont know what to say but, you are the best of all. Thank you. Harper

  3. Henk Noordhuizen June 6, 2019 at 2:17 am Reply

    Anybody knows who is this Alen Edward,who shows off with his hackers skills,and Harper,his butt licker? Lisa,can you,please, remove this anoying spam?

    I’m getting the feeling that,in a while,only this kind of rubbish gets placed here,while legimate messages are filtered out.

    • Lukasz June 7, 2019 at 2:16 pm Reply

      Looks like bots to me.

    • Don M June 7, 2019 at 3:37 pm Reply

      Henk…………. I’m with you . Lisa please delete this jerk’s post and his side kick Harper. Seems like some demented idiots get kicks out of posting irrelevant things on unrelated web sites. I use the analogy of the dog who must mark the fire hydrant so that others know he is around. At least the dog is doing it for a purpose.

      • L June 7, 2019 at 4:25 pm Reply

        Best to just ignore posts like that. No comments. They get off on getting your attention.

      • Henk Noordhuizen June 8, 2019 at 1:40 am Reply

        Hi M,I guess it’s their alternative for sex ;-)) Well,in fact;they might do this with the same purpose as those dogs.The only difference: the dogs have a form of intelligence,although more primitive than humans.

        • Madge Hirsch June 10, 2019 at 2:25 pm

          Henk – I think the main probem with FQs is the toxicity of the core quinoline ring that makes up the molecule. This though synthetic is related to the chinchona bark . Over at My Quin Story there is an interesting article about the history of FQs. The fluorine just allows greater penetration of the toxic quinoline ring.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 11, 2019 at 3:52 am

          Madge,you’re right….too.Quinolones are givving much of the FQ symptoms,as well.Even Quinine,the first medicine made from the Chinchona tree,can cause those symptoms,as does an extract,made from the bark itself.The Fluoride,an extremely powerfull toxin,adds to the problem because it,too,damages the mitochondria,allowing the quinolones to infiltrate even deeper into the tissues and cells,and even pass the blood/brain barrier.

          Most,if not all AB’s are toxic for us BECAUSE they are toxic to bacteria.Many of our cells still have ancient bacterial “parts”,like the mitochondra. And only recently,the gut flora is being researched,and the extreme importance of it for our health and mental wellbeing is now wellknown.Well,in fact,it’s importance was known for a long time,but some people,in particular (medical) scientists,needed hard evidence.Ancient knowledge is soooo under-respected,but,still,most modern “medicines” are based on plants and herbs that were medically used for ages.Even FQ’s,100% chemical,are based on the quinolone-ring,first found in the Chinchona bark.

          The following article might interest you,and others.A citation:

          ” The new results come on the heels of two other recent breakthroughs on antibiotic treatment from Collins’ group — a report in Nature showing that viruses in the gut that infect bacteria harbor genes that confer antibiotic resistance, and another report in Science Translational Medicine showing that silver can boost the effectiveness of many widely used antibiotics.”

          Mind the remark about silver; which,in practical terms might mean: lower AB dose,no Fluorid needed,and more effective,because Silver,itself,is an excellent antibacterium,and might even be used standalone,but that won’t happen because it is not patentable.Better mix it with the,today almost useless ( resistant bacteria!) ,patented antibiotics,for PROFIT.

          Here the article:


  4. hmnyazkkle June 6, 2019 at 7:04 am Reply
  5. Andrea June 6, 2019 at 4:27 pm Reply

    Hi guys, does anyone have any experience with green tea?
    Is it as bad as caffeine for floxies? After more than a year, I’ve finally decided to buy the Fasting Mimicking diet kit from Valter Longo, but some of the food contains green tea extract. Do you think It could be dangerous? Thank you.

    • Lukasz June 6, 2019 at 5:04 pm Reply

      I’m not sure about green tea extract, however, every time I tried to drink any green tea, even organic, I would feel worse afterwards. Quite frankly, I would react to all teas. My guess is because all teas contain traces of fluoride. Green tea, IIRC, has among the highest content. It’s not much to cause harm in a healthy person, but for us, it’s enough to cause problems.

      • L June 7, 2019 at 6:24 am Reply

        This was in my email today. Interesting since it mentions both antidepressants and serotonin. I was diagnosed with osteopenia (pre osteoporosis) in my early 40s. I think perhaps decades of antidepressants might have played into that. “Many antidepressant drugs act by altering your serotonin levels and can therefore lower your bone density, according to a recent review of current evidence.” https://products.mercola.com/calcium-supplement/?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=dpe&utm_campaign=20190607Z1&et_cid=DM292468&et_rid=633665662

        • Lukasz June 7, 2019 at 9:22 am

          Thanks for the info, L. Another strike against antidepressants it seems.

        • Virginia June 8, 2019 at 5:37 pm

          L, yes: I can personally attest to the truth of decades of antidepressants causing fractures, especially in post-menopausal women. Studies have shown this to be a somewhat uncommon side effect, but it happened to me. I’d been on SSRIs for about 15 years, and mysteriously got 3 fractures for no reason (have been in menopause for 3 years). My endocrinologist did every test she could think of, and all other fracture causes were ruled out. On her own time (thank God for her; otherwise I’d still be fracturing), she researched the subject and found that it must be my SSRIs causing the fractures. No other doctor I saw for my fractures knew this. I went off them 1 1/2 years ago (at great emotional cost: the SSRIs had worked for me and my mood has not recovered yet in spite of lots of natural remedies like 5HTP and Turmeric, vit. B, etc.) but at least I’ve had no new fractures. I decided dealing with months of disability due to fractures was even worse than the depression: a truly horrible choice to have to make between a positive spirit and unbroken bones:(looks like I can’t have both.) So SSRIs are the 2nd or 3rd osteopathic medicine to harm me (after Cipro). Now I’m very wary about taking traditional meds, and only do so if I can’t find a natural remedy. What makes me mad is that I asked my psychiatrist after my 2nd bone break if my SSRIs could have anything to with it, and he said no! I didn’t think there could possibly be a serotonin-bone density connection so didn’t think to pursue this line of thought. Isn’t it his business to know about side effects, even the fairly rare ones? I could have been spared a 3rd fracture if he had known what he should have known. The fracture risk is not on the standard side effects list they give you at the pharmacy (likely due to it being a rarer side effect), so patients aren’t even informed of these risks! Thank goodness for Dr. Mercola who is sending out the warning. There must be many women like me with mysterious fractures with ignorant doctors, who don’t know why they keep breaking bones! I’ve been told by at least 5 doctors to go on bisphosphonates to “build bone”, but those meds have terrifying (though rare) side effects like jaw osteonecrosis and femur fracture, plus your risk of fracture goes UP when you go off them! My orthopedist even whispered to me (since he’s not supposed to dis the bisphosphonates) that these meds aren’t even proven to prevent fractures in women my age (58). I couldn’t forgive myself if I went on them and got a devastating side effect.

        • L June 8, 2019 at 6:17 pm

          Also asthma meds. Inhaled steroids. For YEARS I asked if they would effect my bones, and for years every doctor said “oh no, it is just so limited to where it goes in your body.” Fast forward…well, yes actually they DO effect your bones.

          You mentioned mag L-threonate in your other post. That is the form recommended to me by my integrative cardiologist and also an integrative MD and an ND. Good stuff…and good for the heart and brain too.

          Sorry turmeric didn’t help you. It was easily as effective for me as antidepressants and I had pretty much been put on them all.

          As for bisphosphonates, NO WAY! Not only that horrible possibility of it eating away your jaw, but they actually can cause fractures! https://saveourbones.com/alert-never-published-study-uncovers-how-and-why-bisphosphonates-cause-atypical-fractures/

        • Virginia June 8, 2019 at 7:51 pm

          Yes, L: No way on the bisphosphonates! Talk about a toxic medicine…I’d never gone against medical advice before, let alone from about 5-6 doctors, but did on that one. Yes, the fact they can cause atypical fractures while on them, and more fractures after one goes off them…just too scary. My mom with advanced osteoporosis has been on Prolia for years with no ill effects (Fosamax was so toxic, she had flu like symptoms days after taking it), but you just can’t know in advance if you’ll be in the lucky group or not. I’m really sorry you got ignorant doctors too, who didn’t know steroids harm the body! The amount doctors don’t know never ceases to amaze me…Did you get fractures as a result? I’m very glad the turmeric helped you; isn’t it wonderful to find a natural remedy that works as well as a Rx without the side effects? My depression might be a lot worse without turmeric; part of the problem is I haven’t been able to be on the full dose of 500 mg. 3x/day for a long time due to intractable stomach pain for the last 10 months (turmeric can irritate stomachs). Now that that is slowly healing, I will try slowly increasing my turmeric dose again. 5-HTP and DLPA are also supposed to be very helpful for low serotonin, which is the cause of my depression. I’m hoping for relief some day. My family wanted me back on the SSRIs, hating to see my depression, but I told them I can’t knowingly take a damaging med that’s breaking my bones. Plus, months of inactivity from fractures for me, an active person, causes its own depression. A recent DEXA scan showed my bone density to have actually improved in the 1 1/2 years I’ve been off SSRIs; a rare thing for a woman in her late 50s.

        • L June 8, 2019 at 8:10 pm

          I haven’t had any fractures. I also no longer do the scans for that. Trying to limit any radiation. (I no longer do mammograms either—I do thermagrams.) I read that to help your bones (in your legs/hips) to jump up and down twenty times, two times a day, so I try to remember that! Also Vitamin D is very important. Before floxing, calcium was the only supplement I took. Now I take a dozen or more at any given time but calcium is not one of them. Get it through almond milk, nuts, greens, etc.

        • Virginia June 8, 2019 at 8:28 pm

          Glad you haven’t had fractures. Jumping would be great for bone density, but I worry about repeating my foot stress fracture, so stick to walking as much as I can. My fractured area flares up every now and then, and I’m always terrified that it’ll break again. It might just be inflammation. Dr. Mercola says no more than 200 mg. of Calcium a day, and not carbonate. I take 400 mg. Cal Citrate (since I’ve had to go off dairy which irritates my stomach), and at least 300 mg. Magnesium, plus vitamin D, K2 (which pushes calcium into the bones instead of the bloodstream) and Boron (also very good for bones). I take small amounts of Silica in the BioSil form.

        • L June 8, 2019 at 8:35 pm

          I don’t eat dairy other than occasional goats milk kefir and cheese. But I figure I get enough calcium from other foods. My integrative dr had me on 10,000 IU of D and I am now at 5000. (and K2 as well)

        • Mike June 21, 2019 at 11:42 am

          Also, my “warrior” mentality is for my two little girls. They’re the best thing in my life. To get through this and battle it with every fiber of my existence, I need to have that mentality.

          To live life as a defeatist who can’t function is insane. They need me, and a single pill isn’t going to stop me from giving them 150%, no matter how hard this is.

          Is it true that the neuropathy/neurological symptoms go away over time for most?

        • L June 21, 2019 at 12:52 pm

          Well I certainly understand you wanting to be strong for your girls; and a defeatist attitude is definitely NOT what any of us needs.

          A for the neuropathy/neurological side effects, like everything else—it depends: on individual makeup, severity of damage, things done to remediate. I had a ton of nerve damage…some has gone away and some has not. I still have numb toes; gross olfactory “hallucinations:, tinnititus (which I suspect is nerve damage at least in my case). Horrible “being strangled” sensations have gone away. Excruciating, deep in the bone, mid- back pain (which may or may not have been nerve related) went away early on. Other really grotesque mental issues that I imagine were nerve related went away. Really horrific pelvic area pain, that may or may not have been nerve related, went and came back several times and now appears to be good, hopefully for good. The label has a warning re “possible permanent nerve damage,” which doctors are oblivious to, including neurologists!!! But it is very individual.

          There was an interesting post I saw earlier (not on the site) about how they are now linking fibromyalgia to GUT HEALTH! So again, for those on this site, yet another reason to clean up and take care of the gut. It has now been linked to parkinsons, cancer, althezheimers…you name it.

    • L June 6, 2019 at 5:25 pm Reply

      I would avoid green tea. Very high in fluoride. There are varying amounts (I think I read green tea from Japan has less than from China.) Still, to get most of the benefits and much less fluoride I would go with white tea. The younger leaves have not absorbed so much. https://delishably.com/beverages/Fluoride-Content-in-Black-Tea-White-Tea-and-Green-Tea-Tea-Health-Benefits-and-Dangers

      • Lukasz June 7, 2019 at 9:57 am Reply

        So in a nutshell, Japanese loose leaf white tea (rare and expensive) is superior to all teas.

        I miss being able to drink ALL teas and not having to worry about their fluoride levels.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 7, 2019 at 10:13 am

          I agree; I,too,miss my daily tea! It’s a while,since I drink my last cup of tea and had a relapse. I found a great tea,and want to try it,as a last chance, in the near future;if this doesn’t work for me,I might finaly give up on ever again drinking tea,and try to accept that that,too,was taken from me by my idiotic doc:


          A dutch website is selling this tea as well,but avast warns me there’s a nasty script running on the page where I have to place my order.F…! Uhhh,sorry :-((

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 7, 2019 at 10:19 am

          Sorry;here the english version of that website:


          I saw quite a few warnings,here,since you asked this tea question,but is there somebody who was oversensitive,shortly after getting floxed,but did,after a while try to drink tea,again,and discovered,he,or she,could now tolerates it,without again getting a relapse?

        • Lukasz June 7, 2019 at 2:09 pm

          These clowns took away 80% of my diet. I’ll never forgive them for that.

      • Mike June 28, 2019 at 8:53 am Reply

        L, so, if I only took one dose and the only neuropathy I have is very light tingling and prickling here and there, that doesn’t seem severe to me, I’m wondering if this will last a few months and heal? Based on my research, peripheral neuropathy treatment generally consists of eliminating or mitigating the underlying cause. So, if medication is the cause and it was eliminated after a single dose, I would have to imagine this isn’t something that will last forever.

        The reason I say that is because I’m reading posts about people who seem to have had it way worse, and it went away. And since I’m able to exercise, that should help nerve healing, as well.

        • L June 28, 2019 at 9:52 am

          Again, it really is person-dependent. Also, you keep saying you only had one dose. But are you absolutely certain you never took any fluoroquinolone in the past? I am not saying that you can’t be damaged by one pill…The book Bitter Pills from the 90s proves you can. But I would have SWORN I had never had Cipro before, and I started having horrible effects after just one pill…and I got a print out of my pharmaceutical history for the past 10 years, and it turns out I had been give BOTH cipro and Levaquin at different times. So I assume I had just finally met my threshold this time. I would say if you truly believe this is the only time you have taken a flq and you only had the one pill, then changes are very good the PN will go away….

        • Bob June 29, 2019 at 10:53 am

          As someone who has has severe neuropathy from cipro this is what I would do if I had a mild case. Take alpha lipid acid 400 mg, benfotiamin 250 mg, methocabalimin b12, 1000 to 2000 mcg, a high quality greens supplement, milk thistle, 16 oz of fresh celery juice daily and go on a gluten free diet. Possibly also NAC and a liposmal glutathion. If you know your supplements the idea is to help cleans and nourish the liver and nerves. Whatever you do avoid pain killing drugs that can damage the nerves. My PN got 10 times worse from a dose of carbocain and septocain from a dentist in a big hurry. I found a great dentist that uses laser witth very little pain and I take no pain killer. I am actually taking more supplements than that but they are specifically tailored for me. The supplements I mentioned I think would keep your PN from getting worse and heal it over time. I have been suffering for years and I am sure If I followed a good protocol my PN would not have gotten this bad. I thought it was bad 4 years ago and I would be happy to go back to that. The protocol I AM now on has yielded some improvement in 3 to 4 weeks. If you PN is not that bad you CAN heal.

        • lisalisa12years June 29, 2019 at 4:01 pm

          Diagnoised with Progressive neuropathy given Gabapentin of which went right in the trash. I researched looking for natural ways to help nerves. I had carpal tunnel surgery years ago. My Dr back than told me to take B- 6 I also found biotin ( a B vitamin) also helps the nerves. I megadosed with both until the burning pain and feeling like bugs biting my legs crawling under my skin STOPPED. I know take 6 capsules of biotin with 2-3 subligual B-6 once a week. My pain is gone, I still have numbness just not as bad or frequent and my B levels are perfect. I’ve spent my life savings trying to heal. Trying everything I saw here. I get my vitamin and mineral levels checked yearly. All were good except for the D summers here So we need K to absorb the D. Fruits and vegetables galore. I’m sure my D level will go up soon enough. Caltrate daily it contains D. I wasn’t taking K. Also a sign of low calcium nail biting. My endocrinologist told me that. I never chewed my nails, suddenly starting was strange. First visit she noticed immediately. Just an FYI. Good luck to you all to find your best health.

        • joanneb4 June 29, 2019 at 5:59 pm

          Which sublingual B6 did you use and biotin? What toothpaste do you use? Skin care products? Is it ok to use salicylic acid for exfoliating face?

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 30, 2019 at 1:29 am

          I,as a child,used to pull of my nains,untill I saw a friend of mine bite of his and adopted this “technique”. After I got in propblems because of 15 years of Losec (PPI),and the magnesium deficiency it caused,I started to inform myself about magn.deficiency and the long list of symptoms,and realised that symptoms I had for as long as I can remember (sleeping problems,extreme nervousness,nightmares,muscle cramps,might all be a sighn that I was magnesium deficient since childhood.

          To me,it seems that biting nails isn’t a sure sign of calcium deficiency;might be a sign of magnesium deficiency.Vit. D deficiency might be the main cause of your calcium (and magnesium?) deficiency,eating way to much carbs and not enough magnesium intake and/or absorption might be mine,for being mag.deficient.

          LisaLisa,among the supps you take I didn’t see any magn. supplement.Don’t you use one,or did you forget to list it? It suprises me because magnesium is a very important mineral for good nerve health.And as far as I know it’s best to use a good vit. B Complex supplement,in stead of taking seperate vit. B pills,otherwise taking one of the B vitamines might cause a deficiency in (one of) the other B vitamines.

          Vit. B3 is another very important vit. for healthy nerves and brain; people with Schizophrenia all have a severe vit. B3 deficiency,NOT a lack of anti-psychotica and other farma-drugs.Half a century ago a german doctor cured a small group (16?) of his patients with very high doses of vit. B3.But you can’t get rich by selling vit. B3,or do you?

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 7, 2019 at 1:45 am Reply

      Hi Andrea,like others wrote:you better avoid any black,green,and white tea.I drank a black tea,and a Pu Erh tea,since floxed,both only one time.Both gave me a relapse.The Pu Erh is known to be poor in Fluoride,but even thos tea gave me a relaps,for a few days.You’d better stick to herbal tea’s;the normal tea (Camellia Sinensis) has a too high Fluoride content for us.When you want to try,and drink tea,anyway,you might look for a high quality White Tea;which has,of all tea’s,the highes anti-oxidants level,and the lowest Fluoride because the leaves are picked very young and didn’t have time to absorb much Fluoride.

      I hope that,in the future,there’ll be an extended list of foods,drinks and drugs,telling people with a high fluoride sensitivity,like us,Floxies,how much Fluoride they contain.Or,even better: a way to get rid of this sensitivity; I really miss my favorite daily drink!!!

      Here a helpfull link,when you’re interested in fluoride-level in different kinds of tea:


    • Henk Noordhuizen June 7, 2019 at 2:09 am Reply

      Just received the message from L’,who find the same link :-))

      Here another one,which gives a list fo foods and their Fluoride content.Here I want to remark that the same food,grown in different soils/area’s,have big differences in FL. content,so,this list is only marginally usefull.


      According to the Linus Pauling Institute,the Oolong (a Chinese tea,somewhere between black and green tea;I love it’s taste) has the lowest FL.content.

  6. Andrea June 7, 2019 at 12:24 pm Reply

    Thank you guys. The thing is that I don’t want to drink any tea. The thing is that I’ve finally ordered the Prolon kit, a 5 day kit designed by Professor Valter Longo, to make a 5 days Fasting Mimicking Diet, and in some of the foods, in the ingredients, it’s labelled “green tea extract”…I really don’t know what to do…it costed me 200 bucks. I waited more than a year, thinking if it was wise to spend al this money for a 5 days “diet”, just to find out it could even hurt me… I guess I can only do 2 things now : one is go ahead and try it, risking to feel worse, or giving it as a gift to someone…
    Here’s the link of Prolon.


    Check out also Valter Longo and his studies on fasting and longevity. He also talks about autoimmune disease and fasting.

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 7, 2019 at 12:40 pm Reply

      Andrea,when the foods with the green tea are not essential,you might want to consider skipping those,or,first take just a little bit of it,to test your reaction.

      Mind this: when you do give those foods with the green tea a try,your anxiety,and fear for a relapse,might be enough to feel bad.amy be hard to extinguise between a fluoride reaction or an anxiety reaction.I wish you good luck!

      • Andrea June 7, 2019 at 1:52 pm Reply

        Thanks Henk. I remember more or less a year ago, I tried a decaffeinated coffee and I felt bad right away, but luckly the relapse lasted for just one day, the next morning I started to feel better again. The problem is that you can’t skip those foods with green tea in them, actually they’re the main courses, and you’re not supposed to skip any meal in this “diet”. Oh well…

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 7, 2019 at 2:13 pm

          Well,Andrea,then you have to descide wether you give it a try and hope for the best,give it away,or try to sell it,online,or ask that company if it’s possible to send it back for a refund,explaining why you are not able to follow that diet course.They might even put a warning on their website: “Not suited for Floxies”.

        • Andrea June 7, 2019 at 11:07 pm

          I think I’m going to try it anyway, of course, I’ll let you know what happens. A warning for floxies? Yeah, it would be nice, but I really doubt it. It seems we don’t exsist. We’re the invisibile patients. Everybody, expecially in the medical community, seems to ignore our problem. Two days ago, I went to see another doctor. I went there, even if I didn’t want to, because the phisiotherapist who introduced me to the magnetic chair, reccomended him. He was a nice person after all, he didn’t want to be paid for the visit, but, like I predicted, it was a complete waste of time. He didn’t know about FQ side effects. He only knew about the EMA restriction ( I don’t know if after that he stopped or at least drastically dropped with the prescriptions) but he told me that during his carrer, he’s more or less 60 years old, he prescribed “tons” of it…these were his words. Jesus…

        • L June 8, 2019 at 9:40 am

          Comments like his make me INSANE. Like saying “it’s always worked so it can’t be bad.” First, he has NO idea if all the people he has prescribed them for have NOT been injured. Second, why can’t they stop and take a moment to educate themselves. Their current level of ignorance doesn’t bother nearly as much as their lack of imagination, or resistance to learning. Even though I went armed with studies, news articles, etc to every allopath early on( and still do) NONE of them would even look at them. And nearly every one had a computer in their room not a foot away from them. They could not take 1 minute to do a simple online search. If I were a doctor and someone came to me that was obviously in incredible distress, in pain, twitching, spasming, looking absolutely deathly and they linked it to something I was not aware of, I cannot imagine NOT following through, if only to rule it out. I just can’t comprehend that level of arrogance and resistance.

    • L June 7, 2019 at 2:24 pm Reply

      Tough call. I have to say though, it’s hard to believe a kit could mimic actual fasting. I am about to do the 3 day water only fast (a longer supervised fast was recommended but I cannot currently afford it) and you are not supposed to even have herbal tea on it. The whole point is that the body goes after fat and old cells when there is nothing left for it to consume. “When you fast, your body looks for nourishment everywhere it can. It goes after stored fat, but it also recycles malfunctioning or inactive cells, like those old, worn out immune system cells.[4] This cell recycling process, known as autophagy, makes room for your body to create fresh, new immune cells” So I don’t see how giving your body anything could possibly have the same effect.

      • Andrea June 7, 2019 at 10:50 pm Reply

        Hi L, did you read his studies? They’re quite interesting. Anyway, he created this Fasting Mimicking Diet, because he noticed that cancer patients where better responding to chemio while fasting, but many of them found a complete fast too hard. So he created this extreme calories restricted diet (vegan and with some supplements) to avoid the fast side effects, but keeping it’s benefits. I’ve tried a 3 days water fast, in the last year, 2 times. And, while I’ve noticed some benefits (clearer mind, feeling “lighter”) I’ve noticed that all the aches in my muscles/joints we’re coming back in full force by the second day. The first time was the worst, I felt like I was getting into a relapse. The second time, was a little better. But It took me about 2/3 days to fully recover. Vitamin D was expecially critical in the healing process. So be careful if you’re going to try it…

        • L June 8, 2019 at 9:32 am

          well I am doing just three days because for anything longer, supervision is advised. Muscle aches were one of the few side effects I didn’t have (torn meniscus and excruciating mid back pain, like deep in the bone) were as close as I came to that. Hopefully none of my 30 plus other side effects will return. I will post my results. Good luck with yours as well. I hope it helps you!

        • L June 8, 2019 at 9:34 am

          OH, and I wanted to mention….if it is possible to add to that diet without screwing it up….perhaps a couple brazil nuts daily or selenium to help negate the fluoride….

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 8, 2019 at 4:31 am Reply

      Andrea,I did a dive into the availible info on the Prolon diet,and first of all: one food quantity,which suites everybody? Like,a big guy weighting >90 kilo’s and having a heavy,physical job ,ánd a small guy,or woman,weighting < 60 kilo's,having an administrative job?

      There seem to be several warnings on their website that you have to be in good health for using their diet.Well;several healthy people used Prolon,and ended up with health problems that lasted,after they finished this diet. Please,be carefull: Prolon might,actually,make your condition worse!

      Also,on their website (Facts page) there is info on the tea in Prolon.In fact,it plays an important role: to "hide" the fact that you're short in energy (like the Amfitaming,given to German soldiers during WW2).So,you could have known there's tea in it,every day.This closes the oportunity for a refund,based on the tea in it,and the fact that you might not tolerate it.

      The effects of this diet are not in any way different than with other diets,like the vegetable juicing diet (for the money the Prolon costs you can buy quite a good slow juicer (oké;mine is quite a bit more expensive but it doesn't have to last only five days ;-)) And this Prolon diet is extremely overpriced !!!

      An in vivo test of 38 (healthy) persons,of which only 19 used the Prolon,the others were the control group.No third group,with people on one of the other wel lknown fasting diets. Is this real science?

      By the way,Dr.Valter Longo states he's not gaining any money fro Prolon but:

      "Along with the university, he's also an owner of the company behind ProLon, called L-Nutra, although he’s emphasized in the past that he receives no money from the sale of these products." Makes you think…

      I have serious doubts about Prolon.Did you read that this diet only really nworks when you do several cycles of 5 days Prolon (or another FMD),and then 25 "normal" days,and again 5 days Prolon,25 days….etc. Only for healthy,and rich people,I guess.

      I'm sorry,Andrea,but all this doesn't look good.I wish I could have brought you better news,but the only good news is that Prolon works (like many other diets),for some,healthy people with (too) much money. I'd rather go for a cheaper,proven diet like the one with only vegetables and vegetable juices,for a few days (search for "Gerson Therapy).

      An informative look on ProLon,and reviews:


      • Andrea June 9, 2019 at 6:30 am Reply

        Thanks a lot Henk. “and first of all: one food quantity,which suites everybody? Like,a big guy weighting >90 kilo’s and having a heavy,physical job ,ánd a small guy,or woman,weighting < 60 kilo's,having an administrative job?" that's the first thing I thought too…actually it was the only thing about this "diet" that sounded suspicious to me. Anyway, I didn't read the infos about tea, I missed that part, damn it!
        Anyway, you're probably right again, I could probably do some cheaper version of a calorie restricted diet, even more restrcting than this "diet", and see what haoppens, since a complete 3 days water fast, was too harsh for me. Like for example a veggie juice in the morning and one in the evening and maybe, like L suggested, 2-3 brazil nuts in between. And maybe keep using the remag solution just to countereact the side effects…I guess i'm going to give to some friends the prolon kit. Who knows…
        Thanks anyway

  7. Andrea June 7, 2019 at 12:25 pm Reply

    Here’s an interview with him

  8. Lukasz June 7, 2019 at 3:41 pm Reply

    Does anyone here wake up abruptly and have their sleep cut short out of the blue? I mean, on a daily basis. Also, do any of you wake up with horrible body pain? Like you just came out of a boxing ring and have REALLY BAD accompanying anxiety when you wake up? This has been happening to me for so long now. I don’t remember having a good night’s sleep in over 4.5 years. I always wake up too early, in brutal pain and feel VERY unrefreshed, as though I didn’t sleep. I’m pretty sure that I can’t enter the REM sleep cycle due to the body’s inability to relax. I suffered severe nerve damage from my back-to-back ADRs. I wonder if it’s the nerve damage that is causing these issues.

    Anyone else experiencing this? Any solutions to these problems?

    • Andrea June 7, 2019 at 10:36 pm Reply

      Hi. Since being floxed, I couldn’t sleep a whole night. If I’m lucky I sleep 4 maybe 5 hrs continuosly, that’s it. It’s been 2,5 years now. But it’s not because I’m unable to relax, not at all. it’s because of my bladder problems, that keep me awake all the time. And these problems tremendously increases After being floxed.p
      So even if I suffer from a different problem, I understand your frustation. It’s terrible to can’t sleep. As far as pain, no I don’t wake up in terrible pain luckly, but I’ve noticed that my muscles are way more stiff now and also they ache way more easily, after a walk or exercise for example, and the pain last for way too much time. Like days after the “exercise”…Your problems are probably neurological problema. Have you tried some natural remedies ( herbal teas, GABA etc) ?

      • Lukasz June 8, 2019 at 9:50 am Reply

        Sorry to hear this, Andrea. Lack of sleep really takes a toll on the body and mind. I too only sleep for 4 to 5 hours each night. It’s not even deep sleep, more like shallow sleep. Still, it’s better than before when I couldn’t even sleep for more than an hour.

        I’m glad you don’t wake up with the same pain as I do. It seriously feels like someone beats the crap out of me each night (demons?) and I’m always in so much pain upon waking up.

        I know what you mean re: the muscle pain after walking or exercising. I go to the gym and walk for extended periods and I ALWAYS pay the price afterwards with very sore muscles, tendons and joints. This soreness and pain can last for days and if I resume the exercise or walking, the pain cycle begins all over again. This lingering pain only began after the ADRs. Prior to the ADRs, any type of soreness would disappear after some hours.

        I’ve tried some herbal teas in the past but they tended to give me more problems than benefit. Maybe due to the caffeine content? Are there any herbal teas in particular that can help with this? I can’t remember if I tried a GABA supplement but that’s worth considering. Have you tried GABA?

        • Andrea June 9, 2019 at 6:35 am

          No Luckasz, never tried GABA myself, but I’ve read here some people had benefits from it, but as always, something that can beneficial to someone could be detrimental to another one. Anyway, when I said herbal teas, I ment infusions like camomille,valerian etc., not of course caffeinated teas…be careful!

        • Lukasz June 9, 2019 at 9:27 am

          That’s true. I always keep that in mind when trying a new supplement. I may give GABA a try at some point but for now, I want to see how I do with magnesium. As for chamomile tea, I used to drink it before bed. I need to get back to doing this again.

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 8, 2019 at 2:29 am Reply

      I have not had a night of sleeping normal,and waking up well-rested since shortly after I started to use Losec,pushed by my,then,doctor,in 1998.I think the anxiety comes from an adrenaline rush,when your bloodsugar gets low during your sleep,accompanied by unpleasant dreams;during the worst years I sometimes had 3-4 horrible nightmares a night.This is what prolonged magnesium defficiency can do to you.

      Things restored a bit after I quit the Losec/Omeprazole;the mag.deficiency had brought me to the hospital,with very hefty heart arrythmia,two times in two weeks,and the heart specialist told me Losec was safe and couldn’t be the cause.Had no heart arrythmia,again,after I stopped Losec,not even the light once I had since years,several,every day.

      After being floxed I had heart palptations for a year,untill this slowly faded away.I think magn.deficiency was,again,the cause,although I supplemented Magn. since I knew Losec and other medicines can cause a mg.deficiency (it’s called the greatest secret of modern medicine!). Magnesium metabolism is heavily damaged/distroyed by FQ’s. Losec,and the Amoxicillin/Metronidazole course,did that same,ugly thing to me:causing a severe magn. deficiency.

      All synthetic/chemical “medicines” more or less do this:because your body doesn’t recognise these as a natural substance it starts a detoxification process,which “consumes” lots of magnesium.If short in magn.,already,the magn. is taken from everywhere it can be mobilised.That causes lots of different health problems;the list of magn.symptoms is a long one.Sleep disturbances,anxiety,backpain,and so on.But I’m sure your doc will have a pill for every symptom,caused by the other “medicines” he gave you (sarcastic).

      What helps me a bit:magn. supplementation.The first time I used Magn. L-Threonate,I had a bad night (unpleasant dreams).I went back to Magn. Glyconate for a while,and when I re-started Magn.T.,it worked as I hoped it to do;more relaxed sleeping,and less tired at wake up.But Magn.T. is expensive,so,I switch between the both,taking the Glyconate,most of the time,alternated with the Magn.T.for a shorter while,because of the costs.

      Another thing that helps quite well:one or two hours before going to bed I eat a bit of slow food:have a slice of whole weat bread,with some cheese or a tiny bid of honey and Nigella seeds.Just to prevent my bloodsuger from dropping too low during sleeping.Melatonin and a cup of Camomilla tea add to my “sleeping protocol”.

      • Lukasz June 8, 2019 at 11:16 am Reply

        Henk, sorry to hear about all this. Good on you to hang in there after such a prolonged and difficult life experience.

        Now you have me wondering if my magnesium levels are too low and causing these chronic sleep issues. I haven’t supplemented with magnesium much so maybe this is part of the reason? Then again, when I’ve taken magnesium in the past, I’ve always felt worse. I suppose it’s worth a try again and if it makes the situation worse, move on from it. Were you able to address your sleep issues through the addition of magnesium?

        It never seizes to amaze me how much these doctors, pharmacists and specialists are willing to stand behind these lethal drugs and declare them safe. This heart specialist could have cost you your life by telling you it’s safe while you’re enduring heart arrythmia and palpitations. Then again, I expect nothing better from these people as they’re pumped out by Pharma University. They’re good snake-oil sales people, but that’s about it.

        Thanks for all the information re: magnesium as well as your sleeping protocol, Henk. I’m going to give it a try and see if I can get some much needed rest and hopefully some much needed deep sleep.

        All the best to you on the road back to health.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 9, 2019 at 3:54 am

          Lukasz question about feeling bad after magn.supplement:;have you experimented with different forms? And what doses,and how long did you take them? Start with trying a low dose,like 100 mg,and use one of the better absorbable forms;that might helpMagnesium is so important for Floxies; supplementing magn.,one way or another,is really recommended.Ever tried transdermal magnesium uptake? It’s hard to get enough magnesium from food,alone.

          I hope my “sleep protocol” works as well for you as it helps me.

          Life hasn’t always gone easy on me,but I’m not alone in that. What amazes me,though,is that such a big part of my misery is caused by greedy doctors,or,just idiotic ones.They should be there to help you;that’s what they learn you as a child.Well;the opposite is,in my case,a fact. And during the last decases it’s becomming more and more clear that the “Modern Medicine” is sicker than the patients.Only good thing comming out of this is te growing interest of more and more people,of the importance of nature,and what it gives us;medicines that are so perfect that humans will never be able to copy,or even improve on them.

          That’s why those mentaly retarded alchemists are now stealing them from us,trying to patent them;they want full power over our health,and money.Like Bob Beck said:”Take back your power”.

        • Lukasz June 9, 2019 at 10:03 am

          I experimented with a couple of different forms but in looking back, I believe that the doses I started off with were probably too high for me. I think I went straight to 400mg and this shocked my system. Not only that, but I was also taking many supplements all at once. Adding magnesium at that time was probably overkill. I’m only taking probiotics and coq10 at the present time so it’s a good time to try magnesium again. I just picked up magnesium glycinate and the lowest dosage is 100mg so I’ll begin with that and see how it goes. If I do well on 100mg, I’d like to increase it to 200mg and then max out at 300mg for full benefit. Ideally, I’d like to do 200mg at bedtime and 100mg during the day. I’ve never tried transdermal mag.

          You’re right, you’re not alone. There’s millions of people around the world like you. Thousands are coming to this website each year. It’s an epidemic of unparalleled proportions and it’s a deliberate one. We’re entering a period of time whereby the average person will be becoming his or her own doctor and relying less on modern medicine. This is already happening and it’s thanks to the advent of the internet that this is happening. It’s a good thing to be sure since modern medicine has sold its soul to the devil but we have to be cautious as demons are also using the web for their evil plots. So long as we double, or even triple check the information that’s presented to us, we should be fine to take our health into our own hands.

          As you said, NATURE IS KEY. Good vs. Evil. Alchemists have no idea what they’re going up against.

    • Don M June 8, 2019 at 5:47 am Reply

      Likasz….. I could not have explained my situation better. Then I need to add Andrea’s problem with his bladder and my time between wake ups is about 2 to 3 hours. 3 hours is a bonus. I look forward to the night because I need the rest but dread the events the night brings. Between the bladder issues and the pain it seems that I never really unwind. When awakened by the pain I will lather on the transdermal magnesium. I have put it in a roll on bottle so it is easier to apply. Then the next time I use the formula made by Outback Pain Relief. https://www.outbackpainrelief.com/
      It is made totally from natural ingredients. Olive oil base, Eucalyptus oil, Tea Tree oil and Vanilla. It works pretty well but must be reapplied every few hours. Nice thing about it is that since it is all natural there are no reasonable limits on the frequency. It can be bought in a roll on bottle too. Waiting for daylight each day is a very monotonous and frustrating thing.
      Starting the day with no rest is a bummer.
      Henk….. I use ReMag for my magnesium (expensive but efficient) it is made from Magnesium Chloride and processed to be in “pico” form. Supposed to bypass the digestive system and avoid any diarrhea problems. I want to try to add Mag. L- Threonate in the evening but I am wondering (now that you mention it) if it may be underlying reason for waking with anxiety. I have tried CBD oil because it is supposed to quell anxiety. Seems to help. (again a very expensive thing) All the different things add up to a lot of $$$$ spent to try to feel decent. Being floxed really sucks but once floxed there are no do overs.

      • L June 8, 2019 at 9:55 am Reply

        Tell me about it. Over $40,000 and counting. I have had over 100 IVs (which brought me back from the dead, so worth it.) Then the prolozone injections (Relatively cheap), office visits not paid for to NDs, Chiros, Accupuncturist.

        One thing I wanted to mention. I had just horrific pain in the bladder area, and it seems that flqs either cause or mimic interstitial cystitis. When the pain was unbearable for me (and not just pain, but going to the bathroom up to FIFTY times a night—or feeling like I had to), a trip to my acupuncturist helped, but that was temporary. He also specialized though in traditional Chinese medicine, and he would mix up something for me and after making a “tea” (really bad tasting!) of the herbs for several days, it would go away. It came back a few more times, but eventually, after this protocol it left for good. I have also heard suggested that freeze dried aloe vera caps can help, if this is your issue.

        • Don M June 8, 2019 at 2:58 pm

          L…… Freeze dried Aloe Vera. Interesting reading. My favorite vitamin supplier has a freeze dried Aloe Vera powder that is concentrated to 200 to 1. Worth a try. Rather expensive but better than spending the money on doctor visits where one just gets an eye roll when Fluoroquinolone Toxicity is mentioned.
          I have become acquainted with something new to me. Cold Laser Therapy. It to is very interesting reading. Also quality home instruments are expensive. I won’t try to go into the therapy but there is plenty of information on the Internet. Seems that it is one of those things that the alternate medical community likes to keep under the rug here in the US. I suppose it is because they can get $$$$ for the treatments. By the way which average less than 15 minutes with absolutely NO pain or discomfort. I also read that in other countries Cold Laser has been available for many years. That figures. Keep it from the public because money can be made off it.

        • L June 8, 2019 at 3:38 pm

          I have also heard of cold laser therapy. So many new ones coming out!

          I wouldn’t be too hard on natural practitioners. Sadly we pay out of pocket since insurance won’t, but their treatments are relatively cheap compared to standard AMA surgeries (and even some drugs.) They too had school to pay for and have to pay for continuing education to keep licensed. They have to spend tens of thousands on expensive equipment. They have to pay the usual rent, utilities, staff, supplies, etc. My favorite ND, the first person to give me hope who I credit with saving my life, had to close his business down because he couldn’t make it financially. (Of course people would come in for an IV or something like that and then ask about other health issues, and he wasn’t charging for an office visit, like an MD would.) My current one charges around $250 for an ultrasound guided prolozone injection. (My last one just did it “blind,” and it worked fairly well.) So he had to pay for the ultrasound machine. Now $250 cash is a lot for me. But what did allopaths offer? Surgery. To just “fix” it (but not really), thousands of dollars. Knee replacement? $45,000 to $75,000. Copays would be way more than $250. Then you have a long recovery time, more drugs given along with it. Not worth it any price. I think mostly what NDs, etc charge is pretty reasonable considering. Of course there are always gougers in every profession.

      • Lukasz June 9, 2019 at 10:37 am Reply


        “[I] dread the events the night brings” …this is exactly how I feel and have felt for nearly 5 years. I’ll go further and say that I despise the night and the lack of rest.

        There’s nothing worse than waking up the next day and feeling like you never slept. It’s especially taxing when it happens on a nightly basis. My heart goes out to you.

        It seems quite a few people experience this overnight / morning pain phenomenon. Leah (another floxie) who posted on my story page a while back, equates it to being hit by a truck. This is 100% what it feels like. Add in the extreme fatigue and anxiety and it feels so surreal, that you’d never believe it unless it happened to you. This is, this is either a side effect of the poisonous drug OR your body reacting to a chronic state of illness / disease. It could even be BOTH.

        I hope you see better days, Don, and soon.

        • Sheila rogers June 30, 2019 at 2:08 pm

          before taking cipro I slept at night felt good in the morning ready to face the day and had all the energy I needed to do the things I needed – after cipro – I rarely get 4 hours sleep straight, I wake up like an alarm went off every 2 hours and it takes forever to GO to sleep; when I finally do wake up in the morning I always want to get up but my body says oh hell no, I roll over try to get some more sleep thinking that will help but it doesn’t I literally have to shame myself into getting out of the bed and it’s like I am moving my body with heavy weights on and if I start household chores I have to do them all before I sit down cause once I sit down I am not moving due to the fatigue of the chores I have had to do…..going to the grocery store takes me hours to convince myself to do and it’s just across the 2 streets from my house……cipro stole my life and I had no idea what the problem was till someone shared this group on my FB page!!! now at least I know what’s wrong but hate to hear it’s permanent

        • L June 30, 2019 at 3:41 pm

          Not necessarily…and you will very likely get to the point where you get a good deal of your energy back. Two important things..one is heal your gut. There are plenty of posts regarding that. In fact if you do a search I recently posted one. The other thing is that it damages mitochondrial dna. The mitochondria power all your cells, so you want to do what you can to help build feed them. There are a number of supplements but probably the single most important one is coq10 (or ubiquinol if you are over 40, because these people have a harder time utilizing it in the coq10 form.) Some of us use Mito Q, which you can only order online. Hopefully you are already taking magnesium, which all floxies need. You might want to also add PQQ, R alpha lipoic acid and L-carnitine. There are others. Some websites you might search are Dr Chris Kesser (who also talks about methylation’s influence. you might want to be tested to see if you have the MTHFR gene mutation); Dr Mercola, Dr Hyman…

    • Virginia June 8, 2019 at 5:13 pm Reply

      Lukasz, your poor sleep plus major anxiety sound definitely like a magnesium deficiency. Of course other factors could be at work too. I have heard of rare people who get worse with magnesium, but it’s worth experimenting with different kinds. Take it mostly close to bedtime so it helps with sleep. Mag L-Threonate is a very high quality kind (expensive too, but I take 100 mg. at bedtime along with 100 mg. Mag Glycinate and I think it helps me sleep. You’ll likely need more, maybe much more Mag during the day, but take it in divided doses. Most people can go safely up to 500 mg. or more; the only common side effect is loose bowels (best to avoid Mag Citrate for that reason). Not being able to get enough sleep is a truly horrible problem; I personally would go to any length to fix that. Bodies can’t properly repair without quality sleep that is long enough. I’ve heard CBD oil can also help sleep; I believe studies have shown that. I have to avoid all caffeine hours before bed or it will interfere with my sleep.

      • Don M June 8, 2019 at 9:43 pm Reply

        Virginia……….. CBD oil is touted for many things and I sometimes wonder how many are actually true. I do find one thing about it though. It does seem to help with mitigating anxiety. I am wondering if the idea it helps with sleep is because it lowers the anxiety level. What ever it is I do use it sometimes in the middle of the night.

        • Virginia June 13, 2019 at 6:53 pm

          Don, yes: I believe CBD is seen as helpful for both sleep and anxiety.

      • Henk Noordhuizen June 9, 2019 at 2:41 am Reply

        Virginian,when deficient in magnesium,you should avoid,or minimalise your caffeine intake,because caffeine robs magnesium from the body.

        • Virginia June 13, 2019 at 6:52 pm

          Thanks, Henk, I did not know that about caffeine. The only caffeine I take is a bit of dark chocolate most days.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 14, 2019 at 3:13 am

          Dark chocolade is one of my two favorite caffeine sources,the other being my doppio espresso.I’m fond of my Fair Trade 86 %,now,and there’s even a Lindt’s 92%,but I don’t really like that one, and it is expensive. Although chocolate is a treat,it is also a good way to add some magnesium to your system when eaten in limited amounts ;-))

        • Virginia June 14, 2019 at 6:01 pm

          Yes, Henk: chocolate is a small source of magnesium: good news for us chocoholics! The unsweetened cacao nibs I have most days are fairly high in magnesium. Due to the caffeine in dark chocolate, I’ve learned not to eat it late in the day.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 15, 2019 at 2:19 am

          I agree,Virginia;chocolate is a small source of magnesium,and it is,defenitely the most tasty one ;-)) I don’t eat chocolate in the evening because it started to give me nightmares,after the first AB course I had.For this reason it’s adviced not to give children chocolate,shortly before bedtime.It’s also self-limiting;when I eat too much of it,for a while,I start geting very nasty headaches.My Fairtrade 86% has a small amount of cane sugar in it and is bio/organic. Love it!

      • Lukasz June 9, 2019 at 11:07 am Reply

        I’m starting to lean towards this theory as well. As I said previously, I never quite took any kind of magnesium long enough (less than a week in all cases), and so this very well COULD be my body signalling a lack of magnesium. Mind you, it could also be a lack of melatonin which promotes sleep or other chronic unaddressed deficiencies. In any case, I’ll begin supplementing with mag glycinate and see if this was the missing link. I’ll keep Mag L-Threonate in mind as well.

        Thanks for your input.

        • Don M June 9, 2019 at 12:54 pm

          Lukasz……….. Regarding magnesium. I repeat what Dr Carolyn Dean has to say about it. She has specialized in magnesium and written several books on it. Google for her … Dr. Carolyn Dean Her latest book “The Magnesium Miracle” Building the magnesium level in the cells takes time. It can not be done in a week or so. The magnesium level tests that are used are seriously lacking in true accuracy because they try to determine the level in the blood. The magnesium level in the blood means little about the true magnesium level in the cells. The best “available” magnesium level test is the RBC test. It checks the mag level in the red blood cells. Even it is only and indication of the true mag level in the cells.

          When it comes to trying to supplement with magnesium pills it is found that they are from about 4% to 20% effective. Meaning that you are not really getting nearly what you may think from the pill you are taking. 80% or more is being excreted so it does you no good. Trying to build the mag level with enough pills just gets you diarrhea. A couple of ones that are much more effective are (Dr. Dean’s) Remag and Angstrom magnesium. They are in liquids in nano size so they are absorbed directly into the system and bypass the digestive system. Greatly eliminating the diarrhea problem that magnesium can cause.

          I use the ReMag. I can definitely tell if I have slighted my magnesium. I also use the topical mag oils. They avoid the digestive problems because the are absorbed directly into the body through the skin. Topical mag is also very quick at calming leg cramps.
          I hope that this helps you to better understand the importance of magnesium for floxies.

        • L June 9, 2019 at 2:34 pm

          I think, like everything else, it depends on the individual. I started out HIGH and it really helped. I stayed on about 800 mg for the entire first year, then went down to 400. I also tried ReMag after someone on this site mentioned it. I could not WAIT for the bottle to be gone. The taste was too disgusting (and I have taken some vile Traditional Chinese Medicine herbal “teas”) Was really hard to choke down. Especially since I like to take mag right before bed to help with sleep, so I don’t want to mix it with much. Just a warning to anyone else thinking of taking it.

        • Lukasz June 9, 2019 at 3:37 pm

          Thanks for the additional info, Don and L. Really appreciate your advice. Unfortunately, my budget doesn’t allow for any magnesium other than the one I found at my local health food store. It’s not the most expensive one in the world but I’m hoping it helps me anyway.

          Thanks to everyone who chimed in on the subject. This community is great and I’m thankful to have found it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 10, 2019 at 2:44 am

          Lukasz,hou have to eat,anyway,so,you might try to eat as much magnesium-rich foods like kale and other dark green leafy foods.Kale is cheap,and one of the healthiest vegetables in the world.I,personally,love kale mash :-))

        • Lukasz June 10, 2019 at 8:28 am

          For sure… I need to incorporate more magnesium-rich foods into my diet.

          On a side note…

          In the last 2 days, I had trail mix with all kinds of nuts, raisins, dry fruit and chocolate. My nerves have been shaking non-stop since. In the past, I would have no problems with eating something like this and now, it causes massive flare-ups in me. I bought it because I know cashews and almonds are rich in magnesium. More food to cross off the DO NOT EAT list.

          I react to 80% or more of the food found on this planet. That’s depressing.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 10, 2019 at 8:58 am

          Lukasz,it should be magnesium-rich,not sugar- and fructose rich.Raisins, dry fruit and chocolate;no wonder you were shaking;probably was your high bloodglucose level.Even most chocolade,has so much sugar in it that the magnesium gain will be negative (sugar,and alcohol deplete magn. and zinc from your body).At least the nuts were okay,Almonds are a good choice! On to the next trial,with this new information :-))

          In the past is just that: in the past.

        • Lukasz June 10, 2019 at 2:59 pm

          You hit the nail on the head, Henk. The raisins, dry fruit and chocolate would have been too much on my compromised CNS and because of that… the shakes. Like I said, it’s another snack I have to avoid. It’s a damn shame because I used to enjoy snacking on this trail mix. The frustration of not being able to enjoy ANY of my past favourite foods is getting to me.

          Also, it’s possible that I have a peanut/nut intolerance/sensitivity since I reacted to brazil nuts when I did a skin allergy test not long ago. I’m not sure if they tested for other nuts but this is one I had a reaction to. I wonder if I simply can’t have any of them. So it’s wheat, dairy, seafood, processed food and maybe nuts. It takes some kind of evil to create these drugs.

        • Lukasz June 10, 2019 at 3:06 pm

          Also, let’s not forget chemicals of all kinds. Those affect me BIG TIME.

  9. M June 10, 2019 at 12:57 pm Reply

    I am sure this has been discussed ad nauseam here, but do those of you sensitive to caffeine do well on decaf coffee? I had a negative reaction to a cup of coffee a few weeks ago and I’d like to try again with decaf. I do realize that most decaf has a small amount of caffeine.

    Can anyone not even handle decaf? I’d be making on my own at home, with fluoride free water and with what I think are high quality beans: https://www.bulletproof.com/products/decaf-coffee-the-original-whole-bean-12oz

    • Andrea June 10, 2019 at 4:54 pm Reply

      I completely gave up coffe/caffeine from my diet, two years ago now. only once, last summer, I had a decaf coffee. It was just a cup of decaf espresso, so very small. It gave a relapse, that luckly lasted more or less one day. But It was scary as f**k. It’s incredibile how just one decaf coffee, immediately started to gave me all those symptoms : dizziness, pain in my muscles/bones, extreme weekness (both mental and physical).
      My suggestion : forget it. I know we’re all different, but it isn’t worth the risk.

      • M June 10, 2019 at 6:29 pm Reply

        Thanks Andrea. Yeah, I remember you telling me about your experience with the decaf expresso. Do you think it was actually the small amount of caffeine in it, or some other component? It’s so wild that even such a minuscule amount of caffeine could irritate us, but I definitely believe it. Either way, you’re right, it may not be worth the risk.

        Still, would love to hear some stories from the other side, if any exist? Can *anyone* not handle regular coffee, but can handle decaf? Or are we truly that sensitive?

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 11, 2019 at 2:47 am

          M,I’m one of the lucky ones. I drink one doppio espresso,every day after my dinner,just after noon.Most of the time made with fresly grinded Abarbca beans,but sometimes from already grinded,and even mixed beans(Arabica ánd Robusta).But immediatly after both AB-courses I could not. I had to slowly build it up,from 1/2 espresso,to one,to a dubble (doppio).The fact that I drink it immediatly after my dinner may be one reason it works for me.

          Occaisionaly I even drink another one,later in the afternoon,but most of the time,almost every day,I drink a fake coffee,later in the afternoon,made of roasted wheats,figs and chicory,with milk,milk cream and some stevia powder.Comming from the time macro-biotic was popular,this fake coffee is quite an acceptable substitute for real coffee,regarding the taste.

        • Andrea June 11, 2019 at 7:06 pm

          “Do you think it was actually the small amount of caffeine in it, or some other component?”
          I have no idea. Sorry.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 12, 2019 at 1:33 am

          It’s hard to say what caused Andrea’s reaction on Decaf.Might be chemical left-overs from the caffeine extraction (some methods use chemicals/synthetics). Only the Swiss methode (water),and the supercritic CO2 mehode are 100% safe for mpeople that are super sensitive to chemicals,like many,if not most Floxies.

          I think,drinking just a little bit of Arabica coffee,made with the fast extracting espresso method,is probably the safest way of enjoying coffee.After both AB courses I had to start with just a single espresso,and didn’t drink it the “Italian way” (throw it through the throat,at once),but drink it in little sips,over ten’s of minutes,and immediatly after my dinner.Laste quite a while untill I could dring my favorite doppio espresso without problems,and even loinger before I even dared trying to drink a doppio espresso with (some) Robusta coffee (high caffein content) in it.Drank a second doppio espresso,a few times,since then,hours after the first one,but nothing bad happened.

  10. A.Coleman June 10, 2019 at 2:32 pm Reply

    So…….. I just want to see if anybody else has ever had an odd symptom that started about 6 months ago for me. It is SLOWLY getting better; but it is so odd and I would just like to see if anybody else experienced it – and how long it took for them to heal.

    What happens – I have a sensation of cold on my inner calves and the lower part of my inner thighs. Think the area where my legs would touch; so maybe 33% of the circumference of my calf / thigh. The weird thing is that this is primarily subject to touch; but it is also impacted by cold too. When I have on long pants I get this cold sensation. It is worse when the atmosphere is cold either when I am inside or out.

    However, if I am somewhere that I can put on a blanket and sufficiently warm my legs the sensation goes away. Even stranger; if I don’t wear long pants at all the sensation isn’t present unless it is quite cold – say below 50 Fahrenheit / 10 Celsius. I note that when my legs get either really cold or really hot there are raised red whelts on the leg. They don’t itch but show quite clearly on the impacted part of the leg. I have mostly been trying to up my Mg supplements and taking more Epsom salt baths to combat the issue.

    I should note that I did get peripheral neuropathy in my feet as part of floxing. This is a tingling / burning sensation. It is greatly reduced most days and completely gone some and seems to have no correlation to the leg tingle; foot neuropathy can be minimal and legs significant.

    So, anybody else out there have this odd symptom? And how has it progressed for you?

    • Madge Hirsch June 11, 2019 at 2:56 am Reply

      The nearest thing I can think of that I have is the sensation that someone has poured freezing cold water over my scalp. It only comes occasionally and it’s only on the right hand side.

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 12, 2019 at 1:53 am Reply

      I got damaged nerves since my first AB course,in 2004,with Metronidazole and Amoxicilline,but the only symptom is,that,when I softly rub my skin,on several places (legs,feet,underbelly and higer on my back,and shoulders) it feels strange;I don’t feel the normal “itching” feeling,just the pressure of the rubbing.Here,in NL,it’s called “a deaf feeling”,and it’s quite similar to when you just came out of the freezing cold,and your skin is half frozen.

      This “deaf skin feeling” didn’t worsen after Cipro,but the Cipro caused a lot of other damage symptoms.I do,still,have pains,everywhere,jumping around in my body,almost every day.Most of it are,probably,tendons and muscles,some of it are nerve pains.To some level I start to,more or less,getting used to it;most pains only last for a few minutes,some take days to vanish and influence my sleeping capability,and the only painkiller I use seems to have only little effect on these pains.

    • Sheila rogers June 30, 2019 at 2:14 pm Reply

      I have begun to feel that cold sensation on my calf. I also had a weird symptom that no one could explain – if I laid my leg on something that pushed on the back of my calf when I lifted my leg the muscle would not recover and the indent stayed for a long time…..not sure if that has anything to do with being floxed but it certainly is a weird thing – and my nails are just trash – I used to have beautiful natural nails and now they split up the middle and rip in sheets like mica and they are super flexible it’s horrible and my scalp is riddled with little bumps that itch and I have lost 3/4 of my hair – anyone have these issues??

      • L June 30, 2019 at 3:44 pm Reply

        well it’s not surprising since this poison eats through connective tissue. It destroyed the skin on my legs and somewhat on my arms too…as for the nails, putting collagen in my smoothies really helped with that. The indent? sounds like lack of moisture combined with the damaged collagen

        • joanneb4 June 30, 2019 at 9:21 pm

          Which collagen did you take and what did you put in your smoothies?

        • L June 30, 2019 at 10:03 pm

          I used vital proteins. The one in the blue container. Recently I used Garden of Life. My smoothies have changed over the course of recovery. early on I had lost so much weight and it was so hard for me to eat that I really was just trying to pack in calories so in addition to berries, bananas, juice, I also added two tablespoons of almond butter and two of coconut oil. I realized in retrospect I shouldn’t have been using juice..even though it was always organic it was just way too much sugar. Now my smoothies usually consists of spinach or kale fresh and frozen berries, a banana or avocado, almond milk, chia seeds and protein powder. I also bought up a lot of canned pumpkin around thanksgiving and sometimes I throw that in. I also add 1 tablespoon of almond butter.

  11. Lukasz June 12, 2019 at 9:14 am Reply

    Does anyone if magnesium glycinate and coq10 can be taken together or should they be split up? Would they have a negative reaction if taken together?

    Also, does anyone here get dizzy after eating bread (including whole wheat bread)?

    • Don M June 12, 2019 at 10:03 am Reply

      Lukasz….. Most breads have wheat flour in them. Wheat has Gluten. Maybe you are having problems with Gluten.

      • Henk Noordhuizen June 12, 2019 at 10:29 am Reply

        Could also be your blood glucose level raising too much. Easy to control with blood glucose meter.Strange thing,I don’t really understand:my BGL raises beyond what’s considered oké,after eating 2 slices or more of bread.Any bread,even my home made,full wheat speltbread.But I can eat quite a lot of potatoes without coming to that same level. And I mean: 200 grams of potatoes,and right after that my doppio espresso,with 2 teaspoons of cane sugar and one or two pieces of chocolate.

        Why does my BSL rise so much after just 2 slices of bread,but not after that dinner,with the espresso and chocolate? I really don’t know!

        • Madge Hirsch June 12, 2019 at 10:43 am

          Ditto. Bread even homemade wholewheat raises my blood sugar more tyan other starches and especially at breakfast.

      • Lukasz June 12, 2019 at 12:51 pm Reply


        I thought so too but I did a gluten allergy test, paid $60 CDN for it, and it came back negative meaning that I’m not allergic to gluten. Perhaps I have gluten intolerance. I really don’t know why I react to all wheat products. I don’t even know why I react to dairy, seafood products and processed foods. Like everything else, this only began after the ADRs.

        I’m guessing the drugs mess up the metabolism process and the proteins found in these foods are not being broken down properly?

        • L June 12, 2019 at 3:14 pm

          I think pretty much everyone can do without gluten (gut inflammation and permeability). One thing you might try if you don’t want to go gluten free is authentic sourdough bread (the kind made from starter.) Even those with a gluten allergy can often eat it. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/mar/23/sourdough-bread-gluten-intolerance-food-health-celiac-disease

        • Lukasz June 12, 2019 at 6:01 pm

          Thanks for the tip, L. I might give it a try. If I can find it, that is.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 13, 2019 at 1:29 am

          Here is a description of how to make the sourdough starter from scratch:


        • Henk Noordhuizen June 13, 2019 at 1:40 am

          On YT:

          I advice to take 75% Rye and 25% wheat;this works best. The guy calles it flour,but as you can see it is full wheat flour (important!).

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 13, 2019 at 2:06 am

          And a video with Jim Lahey,the baker who develloped No Knead Bread.This is made with the usual ingredients,but with only a very small amount of yeast,and a bit more water than usual,and takes long ( from 12 hours to 1 1/2-2 days) before it’s ready for baking. You’ll need a cast iron pot with lid for the backing,and,of course,even the knob of the lid shouls be able to stand the heat of the oven.This bread has a wonderfull,nutty taste because of the long process time.This will also eliminate most of the unhealthy phytic acid

          You can find No Knead recepies all over the web,but don’t use the “fast” recipies;NNB is ment to take time because that is what makes this bread so tasty and healthy.

          For who’s interested: Jim Lahey wrote a book about his methode: “My Bread”.

    • Madge Hirsch June 12, 2019 at 10:40 am Reply

      I take them together. I take the coQ10 in the morning with breakfast and 100mg of magnesiun biglycinate /malate . Then more magnesium with lunch and just before going to sleep. I find splitting up the magnesium like this is better for my arrhythmia. I haven’t noticed any problems from taking them together.

      • Lukasz June 12, 2019 at 1:03 pm Reply

        Thanks for letting me know, Madge. I feel better knowing that they can be taken together. If anyone has encountered a problem with taking them together, please let me know.

    • Lukasz June 12, 2019 at 6:06 pm Reply

      Is it normal to experience a headache and dizziness after taking magnesium glycinate for the first time? I took 100mg (one tablet) with dinner and I’ve been having a headache and some dizziness since. Is this normal? I was also in the sun earlier for quite a long time. I don’t know which one is causing the headache/dizziness but I’m hoping it’s not the magnesium. Anyone know?

      • Henk Noordhuizen June 13, 2019 at 1:22 am Reply

        About the bread; it’s easy to make a sourdough starter,yourself;I did it several times.Found the recepy on the web (dutchwhen you want a link,I;ll place it.You can use Google Translate on it :-)) There’s also the No Knead Bread;this is not just for lazy bakers;it has a great taste!

        I have unexplainable headaches quite often,and I begin to suspect that it is caused by dehydration.Often I have it a day after I ate someting very salty,or when I was quite busy,and sweating a lot.Actually,since being floxed I sweat extremely much;don’t have to do a lot to start it.A few days ago I just drank more than usually and in an hour,maybe a bit longer,it had vanished.A paracetamol doesn’t work that good and that fast.

        • L June 13, 2019 at 9:57 am

          Sounds great. I would also add, to buy organic flour.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 13, 2019 at 10:17 am

          I only use spelt for baking my bread;and that’s (always?) bio/organic.In fact;it’s hard to find spelt here that’s nót bio.I was told that,because the kernel is protected by a double,and hard chaff,spraying poison isn’t needed.

      • Virginia June 13, 2019 at 6:34 pm Reply

        Lukasz, I would say it’s not normal to have the symptoms you did after taking the Mag Glycinate. We’ll hope that it was only too much sun exposure. You can experiment with different kinds of Magnesium, all but Mag oxide, which is not well absorbed.

        • Lukasz June 13, 2019 at 7:10 pm

          Virginia, I don’t think so either. The headache lasted all through the night and only went away later today after I took 2 Tylenols (no choice as it was bad). I’m going to test out the mag again tomorrow and if it leads to further headaches and dizziness, then I know for sure that the magnesium is not agreeing with me. As I said previously, I’ve never had any success with magnesium supplements in the past. They always made me feel worse for some reason.

        • Virginia June 13, 2019 at 9:02 pm

          Lukasz, that would be a rare reaction to magnesium, but I’m sure not unheard of. I know a woman who can’t stand magnesium spray: her muscles tighten, instead of loosen, with it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 14, 2019 at 3:45 am

          I think taking the mag.supplement does increase your need for water. And for sleep,the L-Threonate might be the best form because it easily passes the blood/brain barrier;the other forms don’t do very well,here.The ultimate form is,probably,in dark,leafy vegetables,and wheat grass juice might be the best there is.I don’t like the taste.When I finished juicing,I make icecubes from this juice and store it in the freezer.For use,I put 2-3 of these cubes in a glass of water and add some fresh lemon juice for taste.Still not a joy to drink but it’s acceptable,and in time the aversion gets less.

        • Virginia June 14, 2019 at 6:05 pm

          Lukasz, I agree with Henk that Mag L-threonate is a very high quality kind. I also agree that getting your magnesium from dark leafy greens, nuts and even chocolate can help. If you eat kale, be sure it’s organic: kale has recently been added to the list of the Dirty Dozen high-pesticide residue foods. Also, you can spray and rub magnesium oil on hurting body parts. I would also try ReMag, which has been suggested by others. It’s a different formulation than most mag products and you might tolerate it better.

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 1:44 pm

          I’m going to give the magnesium a try shortly and might even split the tablet in two to make it 50mg. I’ll also remember to drink more water with it, something I probably did not do much of the first time around. Though I must admit, I’m not a big fan of the big, chalky tablets. I preferred powder form but it’s more of a hassle.

  12. L June 12, 2019 at 6:27 pm Reply

    So, I finished my 3 day fast. It was not pretty, but glad I did it. The reason I did it was to see if it would help nudge this congestion thing, since a 3 day fast resets your immune system. The bad news is, there was no change. The good news is, I can rule one more thing out, and I probably did a lot of good to my body. Not only does it reset the immune system but is also supposed to help with stems…and I have read in another piece that it also resets your gut. All welcome things.

    It was really unpleasant. Not just the hunger, but nausea, a bit head-achy and feeling like I was hit by a truck for a while. Actually there where times where the hunger went away. Then you need to transition slowly back to food. The first thing I had was watered down orange juice, and you have no idea how good that tasted! And none of my 30+ side effects relapsed.

    Fasting obviously is not for everyone. I would do a lot of research before trying it. But if you think it is something you might want to try, I would encourage you do it. (I’ll never do it again! 🙂 Although I had already done intermittent fasting ,and I might do a one day fast again.


    • Lukasz June 12, 2019 at 7:08 pm Reply

      Congrats on getting through it. I’m sure internally, it fixed some things up.

      • L June 12, 2019 at 7:16 pm Reply

        Thanks. There were a number of times when I wanted to stop, but I figured, I was already “in” so just get through it.

    • A.Coleman June 13, 2019 at 12:54 pm Reply

      L – You inspire me to consider my own fast. I am not ready for a three day fast from a digestive stand point; but might consider an 18 hour fast and then see how that affects me. My integrative medicine specialist recommended doing an 18 hour fast every other week; but when she recommended it I wasn’t in a place where I could do that. Now I am – maybe nows the time to try that out and then maybe proceed to 24 hours.

      • L June 13, 2019 at 4:52 pm Reply

        That’s great. I had actually started doing occasional intermittent fasts which are really pretty easy, leaving at least 16 hours between meals. So if I finished dinner at 6, I wouldn’t eat again until 10…easy. Then I did 18. I had thought about trying a one day fast first, but I thought that as long as I was going to fast that long I might just as well do three. Good thing I did, because I might not have done 3. And the reason I really wanted to do three was that two doctors recommended a supervised fast, and I couldn’t afford to stay at the place (I woul have been on a one week fast with 3 days to recover.) And I had read that 3 resets immune and gut and has other benefits too, so I figured it could at least help me narrow down what might be causing my current issues. I felt pretty bad yesterday, the day after the fast. But I feel pretty good today, and surprisingly what I crave are really healthy things. (I lost 7 pounds which I really didn’t need to, but I am sure that will go up a bit as I add back in more foods.)

  13. Dee June 13, 2019 at 7:50 am Reply

    Madge and L, so I have to get a colonoscopy and a endoscopy at the same time in two weeks….I did a cologuard test and it came back positive…..you can relate to this L!!! So who knows what lies ahead although I guess the chances of actual colon cancer on a positive test are extremely low (4 %) so I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will be a polyp or adenoma that can be removed or even better nothing!!! They are going to sedate me with propofol which I know you Madge had no problems with and L I’m guessing they used on you too and you were OK?? How far out were you when you had your procedures?? I am 2 years out and probably feel 80-85% recovered other then my morning stomach issues!! My stomach is taking forever to heal! Any suggestions or reassurance for going through the scope would be appreciated!! Obviously I am very anxious about it as I don’t want to flare up any symptoms besides worrying about the results which I hope will be good news as I don’t need more logs added to my fire! Thanks to you! Dee

    • L June 13, 2019 at 9:55 am Reply

      I can’t remember how far out I was but I would say at least two years. And I too had had a positive on the cologuard, and yet I didn’t even have a polyp. I did fine with the drugs. The worst part I think is that all the prep stuff does a number on your gut, so do whatever you can to heal it asap. Not sure if you saw my post and if it is even something you would want to try, but the three day fast not only resets your immune system but it is also supposed to do the same with your gut. Water only. Nothing else. It might be something to talk over with whatever ND or integrative doctor you see. Really depends on what else is going on with your body.

      • Dee June 13, 2019 at 11:33 am Reply

        L Thanks for getting back to me on the colon scope! Hopefully all will go well with the sedation. Any suggestions on how to get the gut back in order ASAP of course other then probiotics???

    • A.Coleman June 13, 2019 at 12:50 pm Reply

      Dee – I had both endoscopy and colonoscopy only about 3 months post floxing and as far as I know no issues with the mild anesthesia they use on those procedures. The endoscopy was first and I did make sure that they used the same drugs for the colonoscopy since I tolerated them okay for the endoscopy. I was still very severely floxed at the time; so maybe something happened, but it was mild if it did.

      I second L’s concern with the colonscopy prep. I begged them for something that didn’t involve drinking a million gallons of icky solution and they set me up with an approach that used about half the liquid. In total I think I drank like 2 gallons. It still will clean out the good bacteria along with the bad in your large intestine; but leaves most of the small intestine bacteria in tact

      I suspect as far along in recovery as you are that you will be okay; maybe a mild cycle but it is better to have a mild set back than skip the colonscopy.

      Best of luck

      • Dee June 13, 2019 at 12:55 pm Reply

        A Coleman, Thanks for the info! Can you tell me any specifics about what they set you up with for less drinking of icky stuff for the clean out????

        • A.Coleman June 17, 2019 at 2:10 pm

          Dee – I think what I took was called MoviPrep; I actually just Googled low volume colonoscopy prep and several results turned up. All very similar. Seem to have a slightly stronger laxative of which you take less. Not sure at the time if I could have completed the traditional prep.

    • Madge Hirsch June 15, 2019 at 3:30 pm Reply

      Hi Dee-I had my first colonoscopy only 6 weeks after being floxed with iv Cipro here but at the time I did not know I had been floxed. I had bad headaches and scalp pain after but I now think they were from the floxing and not the Propofol. I had two last year though the first one was aborted as I had so much fibrosis in my colon she could not get the camera in. Both times I was ok after the Propofol. That was at nearly 3 years out. It put me completely asleep but only for about 30/40 mins. What I found with all three was the prep upset my guts. I had bad blo ating and reflux afterwards for several weeks. The surgeon who did my colectomy said the prep strips away the microbiome and is nearly as bad as antibiotics. Hope it all goes ok.

  14. L June 13, 2019 at 10:01 am Reply

    Lukasz and others who have mentioned trouble with sleep and /or depression, anxiety. I was reminded of something today in a Mercola email. You might want to try the herb ashwaganda, an adaptogen. I was on it the first year of floxing for adrenal fatigue. It was recommended by one of my integrative MDs.

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 13, 2019 at 10:11 am Reply

      Ashwaganda contains several different steroids,and there’s the serious risk of getting addicted.I prefer melatonin,magnesium and camomilla tea;much safer.

      • L June 13, 2019 at 10:57 am Reply

        I somehow thought you might find something wrong with it. Everything has its risks. It worked for me, and has many benefits. Anyone wishing to try it can easily do online research. And there is a difference between naturally occurring steroids and anabolic ones. We have steroids in our bodies!

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 13, 2019 at 11:11 am

          I’m glad it worked for you,L.,but after being floxed,the most important thing I learned is,probably,to be extremely carefull with what I put in my body.Only when super safe things like magnesium and camomilla don’t work I might consider to try something else. And there’s also the risk of addiction.

        • Kyle June 13, 2019 at 11:15 am

          L, thanks for bring it up, I was going to recommend as well, Ashwaganda has been working well for me for about 8 months now.

        • L June 13, 2019 at 4:38 pm

          That’s great. So many benefits.

        • L June 13, 2019 at 4:42 pm

          Seriously? I am guessing I am one of the most, if not THE most floxed person on here (or was.) I had damage to multiple organs, my eyes, my knees, my brain, my skin. Nerve damage to my ears, my olfactory nerves, peripheral neuropathy, hellish breathing (or lack there of) for months. You don’t think I’m not careful about what I put in my body? You don’t think I don’t research EVERYTHING meticulously? SMH

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 14, 2019 at 2:40 am

          L.,I was describing MY PERSONAL (!) reaction on being floxed and how to handle that,and in now way critisizing you.So;there isn’t any need to be offended in the way you just did. In fact; I know you’re one of the people here, who do lot’s of research.

          Again: I was just describing why I am very cautious,many a time even over-cautious.Being floxed is,for most part,unknown terrain.Even a cup of tea made me have a relapse,twice.When I tell this to other people,they think I’ve totally lost it.”What? Sick from a cup of tea?” Tea was my main drink,and most people around me know that.Drank oceans of tea,and now I (can) drink none.

          Ashwagandha was,and maybe is still sold here in smartshops (shops where they sell synthetic drugs and hallucinogen mushrooms,etc).It has known risks for healthy people,and I just wanted to point out that it might work well for you (it did),but might give problems,even severe problems for other floxies.Just wanted to warn them,that’s all.What’s wrong with that?

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 1:36 pm

          Henk, thanks for sharing the other side of Ashwagandha. It’s good to have perspective from different angles and people. In the end, I think it’s up to each of us to decide what we want to try in an effort to combat the side effects. Nothing is black and white, there are gray areas associated with everything. If you ask me, supplements are worth a try BUT should be discontinued fairly soon after the body rejects them. This is why it’s so important to pay attention to how we react to supplements. They can help us or break us. Like most things in life.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 15, 2019 at 2:01 am

          Hi Lukasz,you’re right;when your reaction to a supplement,or a medicine is bad,you should stop using them.I should have stopped the Cipro after pill ONE,but after all the brainwashing,going on,about finishing a course to avoid bacteria getting resistant,I only stopped after the fourts pill,which I really regret.Same with my first course,with non FQ antibiotics;never fully recovered from that course,as well.Cipro brough me back to my worst point ,after the first course,and far beyond.

          But if a supplement is one of the best opportunities for health improvement,and you have a bad reaction at the start,it’s worth to,at least,try to tackle the problem.And I know that taking Magn.,when you’re defficient,can cause quite severe reactions.My first,and second buy of magnesium (flakes and oil) were from a women with a webshop,who wrote me that her two children had a very severe reaction on their skin (painfull burning sensation) after a magnesium bath.She found information that this can happen,when very defficient,so she bathed them with as smaller amount of magnesium flakes for a while,untill the reaction vanished and they could stand the higher concentration without problems.

          I gave quite a few people magnesium oil, and the device to put some of it in another bottle and delute it with an equal amount of water when reacting badly on the concentrated oil. This worked for everyone;never heard of persistant problems when using this tactic.

          Other possible cause,except from not drinking enough,might be a deficiency in vit. D,and/or vit. K2.Both are important for proper metabolising of magnesium.

          The reason I think,Magnesium L-Threonate might be the best choice for you is the fact that it passes the blood/brain barrier,and when you have severe sleeping disorder thats where you want the magnesium to go:into the brain.And you might,like me,swap from one form to another,frequently (and lower the dose untill you’re less sensitive to mag),to find out which form works best for you,or,like in my case,to limit costs (Threonate form is expensive).

        • Lukasz June 16, 2019 at 5:35 pm

          Thanks, Henk. All good info here. I seem to be tolerating magnesium glycinate so far. No headaches or major dizziness since day 1 so I think my body is opening up to it. I only take one tablet (100mg) a day because I’m not a fan of the pill size. Too darn big.

    • Lukasz June 13, 2019 at 7:36 pm Reply

      Thanks for the advice, L. My sister-in-law, who you might remember was floxed by Avelox at Christmas, suggested it to me awhile back. She said it had been helping her. I must of had it in my hand at the health food store a couple of times but never ended up buying it in the end. I think now is a good time considering how bad I feel.

      My first diagnosis from an N.D., was that of leaky gut and adrenal fatigue. I never really addressed it so maybe my adrenals are causing a lot of these issues and need a boost.

      What starting dose do you recommend and should I be taking it at bedtime or better to just take it in the afternoon? Are interactions I should be concerned about?

      Kyle, can you tell me a little about your experience with it? What has it addressed as far as your symptoms are concerned and what dosage have you been using?

      • L June 13, 2019 at 8:09 pm Reply

        Well, I took a look around to see if I could find my notes from that doctor and I couldn’t. I just remember I had been tested and my cortisol levels were through the roof. No surprise, since every minute of the day was a struggle for survival. Nor do I recall her mentioning any warnings. My suggestions would be to get a good quality brand and follow their suggestions…or if you are a bit nervous, perhaps halving the dose for a few days and see how you do. I am not even sure she told me a specific brand. It was one of a few things she prescribed for me. (I just looked in my cabinet and the one I currently have is by GAIA, but I know the last one was not. I just go to vitacost and see which brands they have on sale, and who makes them. I have a kind of standard mental list of brands I use.)

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 1:03 am

          Thanks. I’ll have a look around the health food store and talk to some people there about it.

      • Kyle June 14, 2019 at 5:38 am Reply

        Hi Lukaz, I started taking two tablets a day of the Gaia Herbs brand of Ashwaganda root about 8 months ago when the head pressure dizziness and interrupted sleep symptoms started. It has not helped with the head pressure,(not sure if anything will but time) but defiantly helped with dizziness and the interrupted sleep. It appears to extend your REM sleep.

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 1:25 pm

          Thanks for this info, Kyle. Much appreciate it. I was hoping my local health food store would be caring this brand but no such luck. I may have to opt for a different brand. How many mgs are each of your tablets? Do you take them together or separate and right before bed or earlier in the day? I’m glad they took care of the dizziness and interrupted sleep for you. This is something I’ve been dealing with myself and it would be great to have this under control.

        • Kyle June 17, 2019 at 11:18 am

          Lukasz- I believe EA tablet is 350 MG’s, I also remember that I started with one tablet a day and worked up to two, I suggest the same for you. Also the time of day that typically works the best for me to take the Ashwaganda is 4PM.

        • Lukasz June 17, 2019 at 9:01 pm

          Thanks Kyle.

  15. Lukasz June 13, 2019 at 8:40 pm Reply

    Interesting thing happened to me today.

    I went in to see a new doc since my left ear had become completely blocked with wax and I was, and continue to be, unable to hear from that ear. I had been to this clinic once before, about a week back or so, and spoke to a different doc about an anti-anxiety medication that my sister-in-law was using to combat her anxiety. My S-I-L had given me the name of the drug and I simply wanted to know more about it and if it would be of help to combat my own daily anxiety. It had been helping her and she spoke highly of it. My initial conversation with the first doc wasn’t a pleasant one. She was very cold towards me from start to finish but it didn’t come as a surprise since this is the kind of treatment I’ve been receiving everywhere I went. Every doctor I saw, except for one, seemed to have their own depression and anxiety.

    I must stress that I was simply inquiring about this anti-anxiety medication’s use and whether it would be of use for someone in my situation. This same doctor then offered to put me on an antidepressant of her choice and advised that the anti-anxiety drug I was inquiring about was far too addictive and that she would not prescribe it. I found this strange since at no point in our conversation did I ask for the drug to be prescribed to me. I simply wanted to know more about it. The visit ended with me telling her that I would think about the antidepressant.

    Fast forward to today and my second visit to this clinic re: my blocked ear canal. While being assessed, I noticed the last doctor’s note which had been typed into the computer. It got me riled up. She had typed in that I was showing a “drug addictive attitude”. WTF?! I thought my eyes were fooling me so I re-read the entire sentence and sure enough, that’s exactly what she had typed out. This bullcrap was now on my file.

    I’ve spent my entire life avoiding drugs and tobacco, never to have touched a single drug or tobacco product on this planet. I’m not counting the antibiotics that were prescribed to me and consequently poisoned me, that’s a separate matter. However, to be labelled as having a drug addictive attitude, this to me is unacceptable. It’s not only a lie, it’s a false statement. I didn’t think it was possible for me to hate the medical industry any more than I already do but this will certainly add to my hate for this disgraceful establishment, or should I say, business.

    Sorry folks, I had to get this off my chest.
    These doctors are really something else.

    • Douglas Ralston June 13, 2019 at 9:20 pm Reply

      I would certainly contact an attorney as that info on your record may cause you irreparable damage.

      • L June 13, 2019 at 9:48 pm Reply

        That would be very difficult if laws where Lukasz is, are anything like in the U.S.
        Defamation (in this case libel) requires defamatory remarks made to a third party, which the party knew was false, and it causes injury (to reputation.) Seeing as how it was in her notes, it has not actually been “published,” to a third party. Also, opinions are not defamation. She could just call it her medical opinion. The person who needs to be sued is the doctor who put Lukasz in this position to begin with…and the pharmaceutical companies, but of course they have made that very difficult.

      • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 12:31 am Reply


        What sort of irreparable damage are we talking about?


        My first thought when seeing this note was to pursue legal action against her but then I remembered that I live in Canada, a country where lawyers only want to speak to you if you’ve been a victim of a motor vehicle accident or a slip and fall. I’m not sure if I told you this but I spent a considerable amount of time searching for a lawyer that would take on my medical negligence and/or malpractice claims. I never did find one. Each of them declined. So I’m thinking there’s a better chance of hell freezing over before any lawyer would take on this lie / false statement, especially since as you said, it wouldn’t appear that it’s been published anywhere.

        Do you know who exactly has access to our medical files? Obviously all medical professionals and the government. Anyone else though?

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 14, 2019 at 3:22 am

          Insurance companies might also have access to that info,Lukasz. Maybe another talk with that doc might help,and make her remove that rediculous remark?

        • L June 14, 2019 at 10:00 am

          OH trust me, it’s no different here in the states. I contacted NINETY TWO attorneys, and in spite of incredible head to toe damage—no takers. A few contemplated it…said I had a good case, BUT laws are written to protect the medical community, making it financially unattractive to take a case where there isn’t millions involved. For one thing, expert witnesses are REQUIRED. This costs tens of thousands of dollars. The winners? The expert witnesses, since it’s just a matter of competing theories. Then there is a cap on pain and suffering, which is where the big money would come, unless you are a high earner. The cap in my state is $250,000. That sounds like a lot of money, but an attorney can easily blow through that trying case, not to mention the fact that they only get about 1/3 of that. If you were not making a lot of money at the time, that drastically effects the amount as well because they base potential future earnings on that. Anyhow, all in all, it is law written by and for the medical establishment. Pro publica estimated that something like 97% of medical malpractice patients would NOT be able to secure an attorney for these reasons. The day before my statute of limitations ran out, I filed the complaint myself. I was still so sick, I had to keep sitting down on the floor while I was in line to file the suit. Then I went through another year of torture fighting high powered, unscrupulous attorneys. I would not recommend this to anyone.

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 1:02 pm

          Henk, thanks for the info. I didn’t know insurance companies also have access to our medical files. No other third-party besides them?

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 14, 2019 at 1:28 pm

          None,that I can think of right now.Things might differ stronly between countries.

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 1:09 pm

          L, so you’re saying there’s a 3% chance? I like my odds! *sarcasm* lol

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 1:10 pm

          In all seriousness though, it’s time for me to stop seeking justice. It ain’t gonna happen.

    • L June 13, 2019 at 9:36 pm Reply

      I know how you feel. It’s infuriating! You should see some of the things they said about me in my files (I got them for a court case.) Hysterical; has pseudo-science information; overly emotional; confused; and on and on.

      And I recall that on many forms it asks if you drink alcohol. I always say “yes.” Then it says “how much?” And I honestly put down “about 5 drinks a week.” (I normally have a glass of wine with dinner most nights.) So then I read later in SEVERAL files something to the effect of “borderline alcoholic” or some such nonsense. I don’t blame you for being pissed off. But it’s really not about you. It’s about HER and her inability to be an effective health care provider. (And antidepressants have their own slew of side effects.)

      • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 12:51 am Reply

        Damn! I’m truly sorry to hear that. You go through all this trauma with these people and they still have the audacity to write this kind of stuff about you. It’s demoralizing to say the least. It’s almost as if these people feel they’re some kind of Gods, and can punish you in any way they see fit.

        You know you live in a sad world when you’re being labelled and condemned for telling the truth (as in your case).

        Anyway, thanks for your kind words, L. It’s going to take some time before my blood is no longer boiling from this.

        • Barbara Arnold June 14, 2019 at 2:26 am

          Lukzasz…..I am outraged for you. If it was me I would confront the bas..td and tell them I saw what they put about me which is an out and out lie. I would tell them to retract it or I will take it to the top (even if I didn’t go further) I would ask them to justify what they had written and then challenge it. Some of these so called Doctors have a God complex. I have found if you challenge them with facts they usually back down if you do it in a polite but very firm manner. They don’t want any trouble on their records as it can stop them getting a promotion etc. Don’t let an ignoramous like this get to you for to long, but I have to confess if it was me I would be blazing, but that’s just me.

        • L June 14, 2019 at 10:05 am

          Ok, that made me smile. Yes, I think that is a great idea. A lawsuit is not. But YES, make this person answer to their superior. Let them know what they do has consequences.

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 12:55 pm

          Barbara, I might take your advice and take up her opinion of me with the clinic’s manager. The only thing that concerns me with this is how serious they take my complaint. I still remember talking to the manager of the clinic where I was given Clarithromycin (the first antibiotic that poisoned me) and the manager didn’t seem too concerned. I doubt he even brought up my concerns to the doc that gave me the antibiotic. He just really didn’t seem to care, I mean, at all. If the manager of this clinic is anything like the aforementioned one, then it almost seems like a waste of my breath to even bring it up. At the same time, I don’t want her to get away with this kind of crap. I’ll think it over in the coming days and make a decision as to whether to address it.

          Thanks for your feedback.

      • Barbara Arnold June 14, 2019 at 2:29 am Reply

        L. Lesson learned…lie in future like they do.

        • L June 14, 2019 at 10:06 am

          sad but true.

      • Barbara Arnold June 14, 2019 at 2:30 am Reply

        Oh and I must be an alcoholic to ha ha.

        • L June 14, 2019 at 10:09 am

          Seriously! Under these guidelines, pretty much everyone I know is. And the really peculiar thing about these bizarre “guidelines” is that they contradict what the medical community says! https://www.health.com/health/article/0,,20410287,00.html

      • Madge Hirsch June 15, 2019 at 3:54 pm Reply

        I think the borderline alcoholic crap is perhaps an American thing. I remember reading a book by an American gynaecologist which had a questionnaire in the back and she said that 6 drinks a week made you a defiinite alcoholic. She worked at a hospital that appeared to be linked to some sort of evangelical Christians. Here in France one glass of wine with dinner would be considered very abstemious by most doctors! In fact they would say it was good for you.

        • L June 15, 2019 at 7:01 pm

          Exactly. It’s absurd. A glass of wine with dinner? I’ve read it’s healthier than those who don’t drink.

        • Barbara Arnold June 15, 2019 at 10:38 pm

          Madge..Exactly. Anyway who cares what ‘they’ think, they change their minds so often about whats good and bad for you it’s ridiculous. At 76 years now, for me life’s to short to not have some pleasure, especially after ‘they’ poisoned me.
          How are you doing now Madge ? I hope you are okay and have improved.

    • L June 14, 2019 at 10:26 am Reply

      Henk makes a good point re the insurance companies. I don’t know if you have similar laws to HIPAA like we have in the states, where your information is private until you release it—but even here there are exceptions, like life insurance companies. So if you cannot get her to remove the information, I would suggest you write something to be included in your file, contradicting her remarks. Either way, I would wait a month or so and then request a copy of your file, and see if her remarks have been corrected, removed, or if yours has been added, or if there is no change. If none of the above, then I would go to the “powers that be.” It’s a shame that you have to expend energy, which you need for your health, on all this nonsense. Well, here is the answer to my question. You do have something similar to HIPAA. https://vsee.com/blog/hipaa-canada-health-information-privacy/

      • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 1:16 pm Reply

        Thanks for your advice, and you’re right, this eats up precious energy.

        • L June 14, 2019 at 1:44 pm

          One thing you might do that wouldn’t be that taxing is to contact the agency in Canada that is like HIPAA in the US. (PHIA in Manitoba (Personal Health Information Act) and FOIPP (Freedom of Information and Personal Protection) in Alberta….not really sure) If you call you might get someone who can direct you. Then you can explain what happened and ask what you can do about it. I know it can be infuriating dealing with a big agency, but sometimes you can get a sympathetic ear.

          This just made me think of something that happened years ago. I wanted to get a passport, but couldn’t because there was no first name on my birth certificate. (What, 9 months isn’t long enough to come up with one??? 🙂 ) Anyhow I spent weeks trying to remedy it, with no luck. Then I called the state or city records office where I was born and got a very sympathetic lady (I could almost picture her shaking her head and tsk-tsking) and I had it within a week.

        • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 5:17 pm

          Nice. Goes to show that there’s still some good people in this world.

        • Barbara Arnold June 14, 2019 at 11:03 pm

          Lukasz…If you do challenge her, make sure if possible you take some one with you if possible. Its always good to take a ‘witness’. Also it’s more intimidating to her. Good luck.

        • Lukasz June 16, 2019 at 5:16 pm

          Barbara, will do. Thanks.

  16. Don M June 14, 2019 at 12:25 am Reply

    I find it interesting, more like infuriating that a person can have an unblemished record but someone comes along and makes a few negative statements and all the previous good things are over shadowed by the negative remarks of that individual. Seems to make no difference whether the remarks are really true or not. Negativity sells better than positivity.

    • Lukasz June 14, 2019 at 12:55 am Reply

      Yup! …and the worst part about it all is that we don’t even have a say in what they think of us or write about us.

      Like I said above, they’re either wanna-be Gods or control freaks. Perhaps even a bit of both.

  17. Don M June 16, 2019 at 7:04 am Reply

    A very interesting article on “brain fog”. https://selfhacked.com/blog/the-cause-of-brain-fog/
    In the article oxydative stress and it’s affect on mitochondria are mentioned. If one reads it all and thinks Fluoroquinolone Toxicity as you read it you can pick up many places where being floxed might apply.

    • Krabiwi June 16, 2019 at 10:00 am Reply

      Exactly, it’s already proven that FQ’s damage mtiochondria and those then cause lot’s of oxidative stress which damage mtDNA even more.

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 17, 2019 at 3:48 am Reply

      Hi,Don,thanks for the link. One line that made me frown was: “If you can identify that you have a bacterial infection, then targeted drugs such as antibiotics would be a better option than herbs.”well,I gusess,this guy has never been floxed,and being floxed is one of the causes he totally missed.Later on he even states:”I’ve also seen brain fog induced by antibiotics, which can produce free radicals and may damage your mitochondria”

      I find Selfhacked articles quite entertaining,most of the time but not the most reliable source for “diagnoses”.In fact,reading this article makes you thing that everything you do,eat,drink,or even life itself,is causing all your health problems and you really need the selfhelp books from Selfhacked,and the diagnostic services from sister company SelfDecode to get well.

      What started as a health blog grew into a big company,with more CTI people (18,Founder and CEO Joe Cohen included ) than medically educated persons.(16). Quite a lot of people,for keeping three websites and the webshops online.Reason to take these websites with a grain (or more) of salt,I guess.

  18. Dee June 16, 2019 at 7:49 am Reply

    Madge, thanks for the info on the colonoscopy! I pray it will go well!! Any helpful tips on getting the gut back in order after the procedure?? That indeed concerns me the most as I already have repeated loose bathroom every morning. At 2 years out it seems to be my last hill to climb getting rid of my symptoms! My stomach was hit hard! I still have some pulsating tinnitus but it has quieted down quite a bit! Hoping it disappears in more time! Being 2 years out I figure I need another few months-year for mostly complete healing? I get stumped on how to heal my stomach as I don’t even know what causes frequent loose bathroom visits every morning?? I have tried so many things! Various probiotics on a daily basis. digestive enzymes although not real dedicated on a daily basis and there are so many different kinds? I have thought about trying colostrum and or bone broth? Any suggestions would be welcome!! I’m just trying to stay calm before this colonoscopy/endoscopy between the prep, reaction to sedation, balancing my stomach again and of course the test results! Stressing me out! Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

    • Barbara Arnold June 17, 2019 at 4:03 am Reply

      Hi Dee, sorry your going through all this worry and I am wishing you all the best, that things go really well for you.
      I don’t know what, if any sort of magnesium you take, but it may help you to take it in smaller doses throughout the day. And not take it at night.
      Another floxy friend has taken colostrum with some success. As for the bone broth that has got to be very beneficial to you anyway. I make mine in a pressure cooker and then I freeze it to be used in soups, gravy’s or anything else. I can ‘feel’ it doing me good if that makes sense. I also take a small glass of kefir every day. The probioctics always made me constipated, the opposite of what it should do. Go figure lol.
      Hang in there and do your best to ‘think’ positive and breathe long slow deep breaths if you feel anxious. You will get through this. This to shall pass as they say. xx

    • Madge Hirsch June 21, 2019 at 3:58 am Reply

      Hi Dee- can’t help much . I have had mixed results with probiotics. They seem to provoke upper gastro symptoms with me -burping and reflux. My bowels are very erratic anyway after having 26 cm removed from my colon! Have you tried Saccharomyces boulardii? This is a beneficial yeast. I took it during and after my last lot of antibiotics for diverticulitis before my op and also after the op.. Hope the colonoscopy goes well.

  19. deniz cizmeci June 16, 2019 at 11:17 pm Reply

    Hello everyone, 37 year old female dealing with cipro poisoning. It has started on January 2018. I had many symptoms effecting all of my body. Very very hard days passed , most of the symptoms are passed but my knees are still recovering. Ofcourse I had all tests done, everything looked normal. My gut was very bad because of that most of the vitamins I got, never made me better. First I started to recover my gut, went to acupuncture, stop smoking, eating healthy foods , stop drinking alcohol. After 1 year and half passed I run on the gym 3 days ago, and my knees got worse, ıt s like a nightmare for me, remember all the bad days. Anyway, I wanna ask you a question : I never have a pain on my knees, it s like a stiffness but a very bad stiffness, so rigid. I read before that ıf the body is lack of magnesium , calsium try to replace on joints and make bones so rigid. Does anyone know anything about it ? ( sorry for my English )

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 17, 2019 at 2:55 am Reply

      Deniz,it’s not calcium replacing the lost magnesium,I guess; I’ve never heard of it and I think it’s not possible.What does happen is that a magnesium defficiency stiffens all your muscles and the Cipro also damages your tendons.

      Be carefull with putting to much pressure on your joints and tendons; chanches are,you’ll make things worse.It’s best to build up your excercises very slowly,while loosening your joints,so;less running ( that’s hard on your joints),and more excercises to loosen your joints.I think,swimming might be a better choise but I would avoid chlorinated swimming pools.I hope you’ll have a full recovery,in time.

      • deniz cizmeci June 18, 2019 at 8:10 am Reply

        thank you henk. is it possible to learn the tendon damage by tests? do you know anything about that ?

    • selcem June 17, 2019 at 5:05 am Reply

      Hello Deniz, I am from Turkey. Are you from here also? I am a floxie also and would like to contact to you if it is ok for you.

      • deniz cizmeci June 18, 2019 at 8:11 am Reply

        yes, ı am from turkey, you can add me on facebook.

    • Don M June 17, 2019 at 7:40 am Reply

      deniz…………. Try using magnesium oil topically on your knees. Magnesium oil rubbed on liberally and often relaxes the muscles and it does help to mitigate pain and discomfort a little. Magnesium oil is not really oil but it feels like oil. It is magnesium chloride that is dissolved into distilled water. Rub it on and it will absorb into the skin in about 10 minutes. Many times there will be a white powder remaining on the skin. Wipe it off with a damp cloth.
      That is just excess that did not get absorbed and dried up.
      I use it regularly when ever I have a muscle spasm or pain. Try it.

      • deniz cizmeci June 18, 2019 at 9:11 am Reply

        thank you so much don

    • Virginia June 17, 2019 at 8:55 pm Reply

      Hi Deniz, sorry about your floxing! As someone wrote, magnesium oil rubbed on your knee is a great idea. You can also take Epsom salt baths, which is a form of magnesium. You can also take it orally: several hundred mg. a day in divided doses. All that will hopefully help your knee over time.

  20. Dee June 17, 2019 at 6:41 am Reply

    Barbara, thank you for the positive message! I pray and hope all will go well for me too. I will definitely consider the colostrum and bone broth after my procedure. I have cut way back on my mag to about 300/400 mg a day in 2 doses but I might consider taking my last dose late in the day instead of before bed?? I will try the bone broth too sometime after my procedure. How are you doing and is your husband doing better?? I hope this finds you both doing much better and well!! Hugs, D

    • Barbara Arnold June 17, 2019 at 7:49 am Reply

      I agree with everything you said Dee, one thing though, it could also be the type of mag your using, maybe try a different one if you havn’t already.
      We have come out of the black tunnel and Eric got the all clear a couple of months ago. Since then he’s trying to recover from all the brutal treatment he had and he’s slowly getting there. Poco poco as we say in Spain.
      We are both going to the local swimming baths and so far we are up to 26 lengths. We both feel better for it. I can’t walk 200 yards, but I can swim 26 lengths. We are going for the 30 lengths mark. At this rate we’ll be in next years olympics ha ha.
      Hang in there Dee you can do this. xxx

      • Madge Hirsch June 21, 2019 at 8:12 am Reply

        Hi Barbara- I’m so glad to hear Eric is finally starting to recover and you are both getting your lives back. You are a much better swimmer than I am! I like swimming but find the chlorine makes me feel ill. When I lived in Edinburgh I used to go to a salt water baths which was great -easier to swim in too!
        I still have ups and downs. I had a suspected TIA in March which luckily has not caused any brain damage but I have had to bite the bullet of an anticoagulant. It is giving me mild digestive issues that in turn provoke palpitations but so far no more attacks of afib. My tendonitis is still present but maybe not as bad.
        How did your bladder scan go ?

        • Barbara Arnold June 21, 2019 at 8:25 am

          Oh thankyou Madge. Jeez old age really sucks at times. Still I say beats the alternative. I don’t seem to have any problem in the local swimming baths or my own pool with chlorine thank goodness, and it’s helping us both get our strength back.
          My bladder investigation was clear, thank goodness, so I have no idea what the micro dot of blood was in my test. Apparantly it’s pretty common as you get older. I had no other symptoms, but thought I should make sure. Not a very elegant proceedure especially when it’s done by a young handsome Doc. OMG. Still in the end who cares if it shows up negative lol.
          I really hope you continue to improve Madge. We are all in this together. Just keep going until you get there. xxx

  21. Dee June 17, 2019 at 8:38 am Reply

    Barbara, GREAT news about you and your husband!!! Yeah for recovery and healing!!!! So happy to hear!!! I do use Angstrom liquid magnesium which is considered one of the best forms of mag if you get diarrhea/loose like me. It bypasses your digestive tract and goes directly into your bloodstream. I also take 100 mg( 2 caps) a day of magnesium theronate which goes through blood/brain barrier. I understand it shouldn’t really cause loose stools? I went from 700/800 mgs of mag a day to 300/400 and don’t want to cut back any less as 300-400 mg is recommended dose for a woman per day. Being 2 years out and 80-85% recovered I figure I can cut back my mag from the huge doses I was taking for the last 2 years! I am hoping for complete recovery in the next months to year if I can get past this scope without any issues and repair my gut!!🙏🏻🙏🏻 Keep up that swimming!!! You go girl!!!

    • Barbara Arnold June 17, 2019 at 9:03 am Reply

      Ha ha, you go girl too….. Let us know how you go on. Just remember anything is possible.xxx

    • L June 17, 2019 at 10:27 am Reply

      Something else that should help that mag get to where it needs to go. Saw this on Mercola site: “Vitamin B6 escorts magnesium to the cells that need it most, thus ensuring that the magnesium you’re getting, whether from foods or supplements, is being used as efficiently as possible. Vitamin B6 thus helps augment the many benefits of magnesium.”

      • Henk Noordhuizen June 17, 2019 at 10:51 am Reply

        You’re right, as is Mercola. One remark:when taking vit.B6,shortly before bedtime,it might keep you from falling asleep. And it might be better to take the whole vit. B complex,otherwise you might create an unbalance of the B vitamines.

  22. Dee June 17, 2019 at 3:35 pm Reply

    AColeman, thanks! I will check it out. My Doc actually prescribed “Suprep” which is suppose to be easier on you and take in less water?? Hopefully similar to yours!!

  23. deniz cizmeci June 18, 2019 at 9:22 am Reply

    Is there anyone that tr ozone therapy ?

    • Barbara Arnold June 18, 2019 at 9:32 am Reply

      I have and it really helped me.

      • deniz cizmeci June 19, 2019 at 12:21 am Reply

        thank you barbara

    • Henk Noordhuizen June 18, 2019 at 9:41 am Reply

      Hi Deniz,sorry;I forgot to tell about transdermal magnesium,but others did :-))

      I don’t know where to go for a tendon damage test.I hope,someone can tell you more about it.

      Had a lot of pain,first on my left,and a few weeks later on my right Archilleas tendon,several weeks after being floxed.Both vanished after a few weeks;magnetic pulsing might have helped for the pain.Still have tendon pain,regularly,on other tendons,jumping around in my body,mailly in neck and shoulders,but also in other places,and they sometimes show up,again,in my Archilleas tendons,but not as severe as on the first time.It lasted several months before I learned about the tendon pain and being floxed.

      There are several different ways to use ozone;I drink a glass of ozonated water,first thing of the day.Hard to tell if it works but since I started I feel more energetic in the morning.Might help strengthen the immune system as well.

      • deniz çizmeci June 19, 2019 at 12:19 am Reply

        henk hi, I am very grateful that I had pain only in the beginning. I have no pain on my muscles and tendons. Only I have stiffness on my knees and when I move my knees I hear my bones :(( and because of that It s a bit hard to walk easily. I was ok before I did sport 4 days ago. Now my knees aren t well and difficult to walk. Because of my bad gut, I couln t use magnezium and calcium. I strive so long for my gut and It s ok now. I made a intracellular mineral test yesterday, ıt shows the rate of calcium magnezium cinko and heavy metals, ıt s important because I think I have magnezium and calcium defficiency. I tried once ozon therapy and It really worked well, I start again.

        • selcem June 21, 2019 at 4:54 am

          hello deniz, did oyu make ozon threapy locally injection or from blood? Is there any safe doctor you can suggest in Turkey doing this?

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 22, 2019 at 1:30 am

          Hi Deniz,what did the test say about your calcium,magnesium and heavy metals? Another important thing to test is vit. D and vit K2,because both play an important roll in the absorption and metabolization of calcium.

          A calcium defficiency is not that common because it’s in most of our food sources,but a vit. D defficiency might cause it.A magnesium deficiency is very common because there’s less magn. in our food than needed.The soil is slowly depleted of magn. and the most magn. rich foods are not very popular (dark green leafy vegetables).And many people have problems absorbing magn.Two things to avoid:not enough salt,and PPI’s;both lower your stomach acid production;the main reason why people don’t absorb the magn.in their food.

          Other causes for a magn. deficiency (and zinc):sugar,alcohol,too much coffee,tea,and stress are known causes.Meditating,making a walk in nature or doing some work in the garden are NOT a waste of time;those are the cheapest and healthiest medicines,combined with healthy food.

          With “cinko” you mean Zinc? That’s an important mineral as well Did the test show defficiencies? I hope your knees are better,now. Rubbing them with magnesium oil should help,together with the magn.supplementation.

          Oh,just found out that cinko is the turkish word for zinc :-)) Some male intuition,and a web translate helped to find that out ;-)) Your “c” misses the little turkish “tail”,and made it more difficult to recognise it as being a turkish word :-))

    • L June 18, 2019 at 10:36 am Reply

      I had both IV ozone an prolozone injections in my knees. Very happy with it. It allows the body to heal itself naturally. And to answer your earlier question, you can see tendon damage on an MRI or ultra sound. I had the injections at a naturopath’s office, but there are now orthopedists and sports medicine doctors who use this therapy.

      • deniz cizmeci June 19, 2019 at 12:11 am Reply

        great thank you so much.

      • deniz cizmeci June 19, 2019 at 3:47 am Reply

        L Hi, after IV Ozone and prolozone, do you feel the difference? I mean did you have MRI and see the difference before/ after? My all symptoms has gone and only my knees and tendons, it s a big one…

        • L June 19, 2019 at 9:13 am

          didn’t have follow up mri but yes, felt a big difference

  24. Joanneg June 18, 2019 at 11:25 am Reply

    Hi Everyone,
    I’m just posting something that has been helping me tremendously in case someone’s suffering and not getting any results in their healing.
    I started drinking a small amount of borax
    Mixed in nonflouridated water, and it’s helping with stomach issues, joint pain, brain issues, and energy. So I figured I’d post about it in case someone wants to try it. And here’s a link with a lot of information on it https://m.facebook.com/notes/lance-lee-osbourn/borax-something-wonderful-too-know-about-absolutely-read-this-for-your-health-/533144096698959/

    Good luck in your healing.

    • L June 18, 2019 at 11:41 am Reply

      Hey Joanne Egg (that’s how I always read your name). I thought “really? soap?” Who’d have thunk? Here’s a site that gives some good info on borax use. https://earthclinic.com/remedies/borax/

      • Joanneg June 18, 2019 at 12:09 pm Reply

        Hi L,
        Thanks for the link.
        If the Borax continues to help, its the easiest supplement regimen and the absolute cheapest too!! A $5 box of borax will probably last a lifetime!! Because you use such a small amount.
        Anyhow, if anybody tries it let us know if it helps or not.

        • Kyle June 18, 2019 at 12:24 pm

          Hi Joanne Egg (its gonna stick), Can you tell us what brand you use, dosage info etc…

        • Joanneg June 18, 2019 at 12:35 pm

          Hi Kyle,
          I bought 20 Mule Borax at Walmart, they also sell it at Dollar General and Marx’s, and I put 1 teaspoon in a liter of distilled water and from that mixture I take 2-3 teaspoons throughout the day.

        • L June 18, 2019 at 1:50 pm

          Just a warning about purchasing anything you ingest or put on your skin from a dollar store, 99 cent store etc. I remember an article a year or so ago regarding brand name counterfeits at dollar stores. (I also wouldn’t go to Walmart, but that’s because of their terrible environmental record.)

        • Joanneg June 18, 2019 at 12:42 pm

          Should say “20 Muleteam Borax”
          I’d post above has a picture of it.

        • Joanneg June 18, 2019 at 12:46 pm

          That should say L’s link above has apicture of it.

        • Joanneg June 18, 2019 at 1:22 pm

          Also, I only take it 5 days a week and a 2 day break and I take a probiotic a couple days a week in case its killing any good bacteria.

    • A.Coleman July 11, 2019 at 2:48 pm Reply


      I have been thinking about this for a long time – nearly a month and I am not sure that digesting soap is the best approach. As is noted in this string what you are really after is the trace mineral Boron. There are electrolyte solutions that include Boron, provide you with other needed electrolytes and avoid having you ingest soap.

      Check out Dr. Carolyn Dean’s ReMyte mineral solution. It contains Boron. I take it and find it helps my MTHFR problems. I don’t take it every day only when problems flare; but it helps along with liposomal glutathione and carnitine.

      Good luck – at least your GI track will be sparkly – LOL.

  25. pınar June 18, 2019 at 12:24 pm Reply

    is this book useful?

    • Don M June 18, 2019 at 3:17 pm Reply

      What book?

  26. selcem ersoy June 19, 2019 at 12:10 am Reply

    After 10 months of being floxed, I made sauerkraut at home and unfortunately I ate big amount . Since then, I have sibo, constipation, histamin intolerance, dry skin&eyes, headache , etc. Does anyone having histamine intolerance suggest any treatment? I used oregano oil for 10 days but I had to stop since I had severe allergy to it, and tendon pain back. Within 2 months my symptoms of SIBO came back. Could you please recommend?
    My doctor suggests Rifaximin, but I am afraid to use.

    • Lukasz June 19, 2019 at 4:37 pm Reply

      Be careful not to overdo it with oregano oil. It’s a powerful, natural antibiotic and overusing it will cause you all kinds of vitamin, mineral and nutrient deficiencies. Like antibiotics, it wipes good and bad flora from your gut so you’re voiding your stomach of bio (life) when taking the oil in large amounts or for a prolonged period. 10 days is a LONG TIME. You probably need to get on some vitamin and mineral supplements, not to mention probiotics, to start restoring all that’s been wiped out. You may want to do some blood work to determine which minerals and vitamins may be lacking in your system.

      • selcem ersoy June 19, 2019 at 11:36 pm Reply

        Thanks a lot Lukasz, indeed my SIBO was not cleared with 10 days of oregano oil, or somehow it occured again within 2 months. I am still suffering from histamine intolerance, and fruit allergies. Do you recommend anything for these allergies because it prevents me eating most of foods.

        • Lukasz June 21, 2019 at 4:26 pm

          Histamine is a chemical compound in the body. What makes you think that you have a histamine intolerance? Are you exhibiting numerous allergies or just allergies to fruits?

          Antibiotics can cause all sorts of allergies, intolerances and sensitivities but the major ones are wheat (gluten), dairy (casein), seafood (mercury) and processed foods. Chemical intolerance is another one. I have all 5 of these. I can tolerate fruits just fine but I don’t doubt that some people can’t after the consumption of abx.

          What happens after you eat fruits?

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 22, 2019 at 12:46 am

          Histamine is not a chemocal;it’s an organic substance,made by your body,and has quite a few important tasks. And,in fact,there’s not such a thing as histamine allergy. What is called a histamine allergy is,in fact,the overreaction of your body to allergens (too high histamine production),and an inability to break down the histamine.

          What can be done? First of all,try to avoid allergens that cause the reaction.Second; drink more water (seems to work by dillution),and eat more healthy vegetables.Only when you have a life-threatening reaction ,histamine-lowering medication is needed.

          Some natural anti-histamine remedies:


        • L June 22, 2019 at 9:44 am

          Histamine issues and mast cell activation disorder are a big problem for many floxies, Unfortunately mast cell disorder is difficult to diagnose. There are some blood tests, but they can ony confirm that you DO have it. If they come back negative, it doesn’t confirm that you do not. The test that they save for last involves a biopsy, so many people don’t want to go that far. And the symptoms are many, and can mirror many of the symptoms of flq toxicity. They can be neurological. They can effect the skin, the respiratory system, cardiovascular system, skeletal system, gynecological and urinary systems. They can be exacerbated by stress, odors, temperatures, foods, medication, insect bites. Dr Chris Kesser gives a good explanation of it. One of the best sites however is from Alison Vickery. This link takes you directly to a histamine diet, but elsewhere on the site she also discusses mast cell disorder. https://alisonvickery.com.au/low-histamine-foods/

        • selcem ersoy June 22, 2019 at 11:53 am

          Hello Henk,

          after I was floxed by tavanic, I did not have any food allergy. After several months of floxie, I had H1N1 which put me in bed 1 month, and I could not take antiviral not to worsen my symptoms. Then I ate home-made sauerkraut which was a large portion. That night, I had neurological pain in body and burn in my intestines. Within 2 weeks I started to give physical reaction like burn at muscles, burn at intestines, palpitation, runny nose, flashes when I eat high-histamine foods like spinach, tomatoes, banana, etc. I also started to have allergy, headache when ate most fruits. So, I dont know why but sauerkraut made me allergic to most foods. This histamine intolerance , dry eyes, dry skin, urination burn and weight loss are all symptoms of SIBO. So, I see these symptoms of SIBO coincide with floxie.
          Do you have any suggestion for SIBO? I used oregano oil for 10 days, but it fixed these symptoms temporarily like 1-2 months.
          I have to eat healthy vegetables , fruits for my large intestines, but those healthy ones feed small intestine bacteria which increases my symptoms 😦

        • L June 22, 2019 at 1:37 pm

          FYI those with mast cell disorder and histamine intolerance need to avoid fermented foods.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 22, 2019 at 1:47 pm

          Selcem,untill you mentioned it,I never heard of SIBO;I had to do a search to find out that it’s a complex gut problem.I was astounded to read that this started wit homemade sauerkraut; the big amount might indeed have played a roll,here.What I understand,after a quick read of the article from Dr. Axe (link provided for you) is,that there’s an overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestines,and relatively few bacteria in the in the colon.But there’s more to SIBO,and it’s the other factors and symptoms which make things very complicated.

          In the article a study is mentioned with half of the participants using AB’s,and the other half uses probiotics. The group,using the herbs.An astounding 82 % of the group,using PB’s reported improvements agains only 52% in the group which wat treated with AB’s.So;your best bet seams to be on probiotics,for now. I know;sauerkraut is used as a probiotic,but there may have gone something wrong during the fermentation,or the acidity was too high for your floxed intestines.

          For now I can only find this link to the article of Dr. Axe for you;as soon as I have time for an extended search,and find more usefull information,I’ll place it here,on FoxieHope.


        • Lukasz June 22, 2019 at 6:47 pm

          I recently reacted quite badly to Japanese pickled ginger (known as Gari) and being a fermented food, this may mean I’m in your camp when it comes to intolerance of fermented foods. Though, strangely enough, I don’t remember feeling all that bad following sauerkraut and kimchi. Maybe the pickled ginger is just too strong for my gut. Don’t know…

          From everything I’ve learned, SIBO seems to be similar to Leaky Gut. It’s just another name for a severe gut issue. Overgrowth of bad bacteria (pathogens), lack of good bacteria, indigestion, malabsorption, bathroom troubles, it’s all part of it. Food allergies are part of the equation as well. Fixing the gut is pretty much the protocol. A while back, I posted a video on my YouTube channel of Dr. Axe’s protocol for addressing gut issues. I’ll link it down below.

          Healing Leaky Gut Webinar – Presented by Dr. Josh Axe

        • selcem ersoy June 22, 2019 at 9:15 pm

          Hello Lukasz,

          do you experience dry eyes, pain at muscles. I understand all these symtpoms are due to malabsorption. Doctor is prescribing me rifaximin to clear my SIBO, around 3 weeks. Honestly, i am afraid it will totally disable me this time.
          On the other hand, I need to do smt. as my body can not get food. Not only due to allergy, but also malabsorption

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 23, 2019 at 12:42 am

          Hi Selcem,one thing you can try is a probioticum that helps repair the gut lining and is capable to survive the stomach acid because of it’s spore form. It’s called Lactospore,and the bacteria in it is Bacillus coagulans.This really worked,and still works for me ( I use it periodically,when needed).Prices vary strongly but I found a webshop where it’s low-priced,and where I buy my Inuline (which helps probiotica to settle and survive;it’s a so called prébioticum).But first:here is an article about this probioticum:


        • Henk Noordhuizen June 23, 2019 at 12:45 am

          And here is a link to a more extended seminar about SIBO,by Dr. Axe (will take about 1 1/2 hours of your time):


        • Henk Noordhuizen June 23, 2019 at 12:27 am

          Lukasz,and Selmec,according to Dr. Axe Sibo is a complex syndrom,not only covering “leaky gut” but also IBS and other gut problems.And the cause isn’t bad bacteria,per sé,but an overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestines,where there usually are only few bacteria (here,the body fluids,like stomach acid and gall/bile do their thing. And further in the trac,in the colon,there are only a few bacteria,where there should be many.the total intestinal population has changed and moved.

          Thee was no link in your last mail,so here it is:

        • selcem ersoy June 23, 2019 at 8:33 am

          Hello Henk,

          i will investigate lactoSpore. But ı am suspecting my SIBO is due to overgrowth of probiotic bacteria from sauerkraut . So, whenever I take probiotic, my symptoms gets worse. I also heard a doctor here doing bioresonance to treat intestine problems. But, honestly it does not sound very realistic solution to me. Thanks for your advice

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 23, 2019 at 10:55 am

          Well,not all probiotica’s are created equal. I think the high amount of lactic acid intake,due to too much sauerkraut in one meal may be a more likely cause of your problem.It might have damaged the inner lining of your intestines,and also it might have caused acid loving bacteria species to settle in your small intestines. When things don’t improve,Lactospore might be worth a try,in the future.For now,you might want to try soft remedies like ginger for the upper part of your intestines,and/or inuline to make a healthier base for the good bacteria in the lower intestinal part.

        • selcem ersoy June 23, 2019 at 11:48 pm

          Hello Henk,

          thanks a lot for your detailed information. May I ask you a question? Do you know any doctors who can fix my brain problems? I have memory issues, brain fog, depression, focus issue which prevents me from working. I cant eat well due to my SIBO. I have burn in body and mithocondrial damage on legs, weak legs. Aching achilles, and many like other floxies.
          I have been this process for 1 year, and my husband behaves me like i am crap, i cant work well and face to lose my job. I have no help from family . Indeed, I would already kill myself and stop this hell but I have a daughter and I dont want to do this to her. My fault about sauerkraut was due to my despair also. I dont know really, when these will pass, or will they always relapse. I just regret every minute for taking those antibiotics. So, if there is a doctor even abroad I can go.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 24, 2019 at 3:26 am

          Hi,Selcem,I’m sorry to hear of all your problems; FQ’s are able to ruin lives.I’ve experienced,and,to some level,still experience all of the symptoms you mention,and a few more,but I’m a single,so,I don’t have to justify myself to others in the house,I live in,every day.I don’t,exactly,understand;does your husband believe in your floxie problem,and support you in trying to find solutions? He should,as does your family.If not,ask them to watch the hearing,the EMA did,a year ago,on fluoroquinolones;it’s on youtube and lasts well over 4 hours.

          This hearing lead to new black box warnings,and the strict advise to doctors to prescribe FQ’s ONLY when it’s a matter of life and death,and AFTER less risky antibiotics have failed.

          There’s some helpfull advice on the Dr. Axe website,on brainfog (search Dr. Axe brainfog),like: low carb diet,healthy fats,,exercise (carefull with your weakened tendons;choose your way of exercising wise! Swimming might be a good method but for safety,only accompanied with someone who can help you in case something goes wrong.Better too cautious than not cautious enough)

          Supplements like Magnesium L-Threonate and a good vit. B Complex,and Omega3 (fish-) oil are helpfull,but to be fully effective,and to support your body in the repair of the FQ damage,it’s extremely important to repair your gut flora. Your intention with the saurkraut might have been good,but by eating way too much of it,in one go,it did the opposite.

          I understand that you’re frightened now,of probiotics,but I really think it’s the way to go,to heal your guts.That’s why I think Lactospore and Inuline might be the thing to try,first of all. The lactospore to help,healing the intestinal inner lining and create a healthy invironment for your gut flora,and the inuline to feed those bacteria in a sensible way.

          I have,and use a Sota Bio Tuner (original name: Brain Tuner),which was developed by Bob Beck after extensive research. It helps;even after just one session it has a quite noticable effect on memory and cleerness,but after a few days the effect slowly vanishes.So,using it on a regular base,2-3 times a week,works best.It;s not for everyone because putting clips on both ears to send a tiny electric current througt the head,although it’s perfectly safe,frightens many people off. Starting the day with a glass of ozonated water does help a bit,as well.

          I know that being miserable,as you are,after one year of being floxed is depressing,but,reading experiences of other floxies,here,you’ll understand that healing FQ damage takes a long time.DO NOT LOOSE HOPE !!! Eventually you,too,will reach a point where you can say “I’m (almost) healed,and feel 80-90% oké,now !”

          One last advice,for now (have to prepare my dinner,now :-)) : be carefull not to eat,drink,or even touch anything,containing Fluoride. Turkish people love to drink their daily tea (their national drink;I drank quite a bit of it as a guest :-)),but the small amount of fluoride in it is enough to get a relapse.And even if you don’t have acute problems after drinking one or two cups,it might,even will slow down your recovery.As will other fluoride containing drinks and food .Eating and drinking only bio-organic stuff is the best choice for everybody,in particular for floxed people.

          Take good care,Selcem,for yourself,and for your husband and daughter.Wish you the best!

        • selcem ersoy June 24, 2019 at 4:47 am

          Thanks for your support Henk,
          honestly my husband does not believe at me. I lost 10 kilos, I look awful, I can’t do many things physically but he doesn’t believe me. He thinks my only issue is physicological. So, do my family. I used redepra and xanax for few months since all doctors forced me to go physiatrist. Eventually, I stopped taking them since they had no benefit but they have side effects. I was much better few months ago, but tough H1N1 and then sauerkraut made me worse. I am looking for a doctor in Germany, Franz Enzmann maybe, to treat my gut in safe ways. Else, rifaximin seems very dangerous. Many side effects it has, even loss of vision hearing etc. I dont know really, I need miracle.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 24, 2019 at 7:09 am

          Selcem,Rifaximin is not a Fluoroquinoline,so,technicaly,you’re not a Floxie.But,like all AB’s,it has a list of adverse reactions. May I ask for what kind of infection this Rifaximin as given to you? I found that it is prescribed for (sorry;against :-)) bacteria that can cause hepatic encefalopathy, which has symptoms that fit,partly,yours.Might it be that the infection,in stead of the antibiotic,has caused your symptoms?

          That your husband reacts this way is,of course,a shame but I guess it’s caused by the brainwashing that,since decades,”learns” us that all medicines are safe and effective. I,to0,was told that my adverse reactions (from Amoxicillin and Metronidazole) were “between the ears” and my doc wanted me to go to a psychiatrist. In fact,psychiatry is an even worse form of quackary,and has no scientific base,whatsoever. And our doctors are brainwashed as well,most of them not willing to “wake up” because they earn their living with this pill-pushing job.

          I can hardly find any info on Dr.Franz Enzmann,so I cannot give any vision on him,and his work.

        • selcem ersoy June 24, 2019 at 7:34 am

          Hello Henk, last year I used Factive for 5 days at March. 3 weeks Macrol at June, and 1 dose of Tavanic at July. I am a real floxie 😦
          Rifaximin is the drug my doctor is prescribing me now. But i did not use it yet

        • selcem ersoy June 24, 2019 at 7:35 am

          For doctor , https://www.mse-pharma.de/ is their site but it is in German

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 24, 2019 at 9:30 am

          Hi Selcem,deutsch ist für mir gar kein problem;Ich habe auf der Mittelschule deutsch,english,französisch und,natürlich auch meine Muttersprache,niederländisch gelernt :-))

          I’ve read part of the website,and discovered that almost nothing of their info is new to me,or to other daily readers of mercola dot com and other websites like that.He’s just promoting supplements that are in the market for decennia,and known by most health-aware people.And citing “old” info about medical discoveries.Nothing new,here.His mitochondra-concept,too,is not new in any way.To me he,and his team are just surfing on the waves of a growing concern of people for their health,and the growing market for health-products and supplements this concern makes.

          You might search for a good naturopath,somewhere in your regio;if he/she is a good naturopath,he/she will have the same knowledge as this Dr. Franz Enzmann has.And alle the supplements,mentioned on his website,are availible in Turkey,as well.

          Factive use,indeed,makes you a floxie;can’t remember you mentioned using this FQ,before.The Macrol will not have helped your gut flora;it’s another B,as is Tavanic,another FQ Rifaximin? Yet another AB. Does your doctor hate (healthy) gut bacteria?

          There might be a usefull,and fully natural solution,and,regarding your situation;it might be your best bet,at this moment. It’s called a gut flora transplantation,and it’s used it the alternative sector,ánd by desperate individuals with long lasting gut problems,with success (their problems were,most of the time,caused by…..antibiotics.You might consider to try it;it worked for others,even after years of gut problems

        • selcem ersoy June 24, 2019 at 11:24 am

          Hello Henk,

          indeed I already went to a naturopath, he gave me oregano oil which is powerful antibiotic. It caused bad reaction on me but that guy claimed it is detox. Honestly, as other doctors I believe it was allergy also. So, how can I believe naturopath doctors, i think most of them in here have little knowledge and they do trials on patients. This is not smt my body is able to tolerate. See below how my body gave allergy but doctor claimed herxheimer reaction detox. I already searched about this reaction, that can not be this much severe and long lasting.


          I hope you can open this picture

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 24, 2019 at 12:35 pm

          Hi Selcem,to me (not an expert,this looks like an allergic reaction.It is known that soem people are allergic to oregano oil (and tea tree oil,and some other essential oils). That’s why it’s very important to first do an allergy test by putting a tiny bit of the oil on the skin and wait for several hours.When there’s a red spot on the place you put the oil,you’re allergic and should NEVER use that oil in an oral way.

          Herxheimer reaction is a symptom of detoxing too fast;first thing to do is drinking lots of (ozonated) water,stop the detox untill Herxheimer symptoms disappeared,and later on restart de detox in a slower way,of course,while drinking lots of water.Symptoms of Herxheimer: headache (you need more water to flush out the toxins),very tired,sometimes feeling like,or in fact having a fever.There are good,and there are bad naturopaths.A good naturopath knows about oregano oil allergy,and first thing he does,before prescribing oral oregano oil,is the skin test I described.

          There are naturopath who are licenced MD,who’ve chosen to first use natural remedies,if the situation allows it,in a responsible way,to do so.

          One thing O don’t understand:why does a doctor,after having damaged your gut flora with antibiotics,try to fix the problem with….more antibiotics,and then another one,and….. My health was damaged in 2004,in a terrible way,after a course with amoxicilline and Metronidazole (both broadspectrum ab’s) and I had loose stools,and a severe carbohydrate intolerance.Well,my doc offered: first: a psychiater,second: dietist(e).I went for the second option,and had weekly talks with a dietiste,for 2-2 1/2 months,after which she told me she couldn’t help me,but was very gratefull for all the info I brought her on the hyper- and hypoglycemia,about which she had hardly heard,before we met.Thanx to my info she would be able to help other clients much better,she said.

          I helped myself,2 1/2 years later,with the Beck Protocol,with devices I built myself;later on bought the devices,made by Sota (work same way but are more handy,deluxe and expensive).Home-built these devices are quite inexpensive,and you only need a basic knowledge of electronics,so,you might consider this as an option,as well.In fact:the Magnetic Pulser is so easy to build;you only need an old electronic photo flash unit,a copper coil and a soldering iron.This is what helped me in 2007;both the gut problems and the carb intolerance were gone in 2 weeks! Still cannot eat carbs,i.p. wheat carbs,in big quantities but I tolerate enough to have a descent meal.

          The info on the Bob Beck protocol,and al the info,needed to build his devices ishere:


          Maybe your husband is handy enough to build you a magnetic pulser,otherwise you may find someone else to make you one.I use it (both the Sota,and one of my homebuild ones) almost every day (pain,tendons,joints etc.);they are so usefull.Can’t live without them :-))

        • selcem ersoy June 24, 2019 at 9:44 pm

          Henk, most doctors here do not consider about amount of antibiotics used. They give it until killing all infection. And I had a tough sinusitis, that’s why. And I was very unlucky to find a bad doctor. I also could not recognize symptoms of floxie initially due to Factive. I thought it was due to my breastfeeding and my general exhaust. Can you imagine that doctor gave Factive to me while I was feeding my daughter!
          Then, after 1 dose tavanic, I could not stand up or walk due to achilles pain and stifness, then I searched immediately and realized damage 😦
          The major damage occured after 1 dose of tavanic indeed.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 25, 2019 at 1:34 am

          Hi,Selcem,I found that no research on the safety of Factive,while breastfeeding has been done,yet.Well,I guess they are doing that research,right now,by giving breastfeeding women Factive,and observe what will happen.To me,this is extremely unresponsible! He should have,at least,advised to “pump and dump” (breastpump the milk and throw it away),to protect the child from possible harm.

          I find it astounding that,untill now,no research on this matter has been done ,regarding humans.There is research on rats,and they excrete FQ’s through mothermilk.That should have been a warning,and a motivition to do this research as soon as possible.

          I want to,again,underline the importance of getting your guts healed! The healing of all other floxie-problems very much depends on good working intestines because your body needs lots of minerals and vitamines to repair the damage,done by the AB’s. Malabsorption won’t help.

        • selcem ersoy June 25, 2019 at 4:56 pm

          Hello Henk,

          may I ask a question regarding my treatment on SIBo with naturopath doctor? He gave me C vitamin serum injection to blood. It was including 7-8 gr. C vitamin+ Nacl isotonic solution. Do you think this solution could cause any reaction on floxies? I heard from friends with floxie, worsened with vaccines. I am considering if this has same effect. Or oregano oil disrupted my flora, because my pains were not this much in the past. Else mupirocin cream triggered these pains, that I used for my overall acne due to oregano oil, I used it once only, but it gave me reaction. Else, vitamin+mineral deficiency issue. I really dont know. Could you please share your opinion. So that I will stay away from it, or try something to decrease pain.

        • L June 25, 2019 at 6:10 pm

          I really doubt it was the vitamin C IV. I have had over twenty of them, with no ill effects and I know of others who have as well. IT should not effect your gut since it does not go through the digestive system

        • selcem ersoy June 25, 2019 at 9:53 pm

          Hello L,
          rather than vitamin C, I am suspecting from NACL isotonic solution. Do you think it is safe also?

        • L June 25, 2019 at 10:03 pm

          NACL is salt. Do you mean NAC? I use it every day and have for over a year. It’s the precursor to glutathione. Again, I can’t imagine that would cause issues….

        • selcem ersoy June 25, 2019 at 10:18 pm

          I meant salt yes. But just asked to ensure whether solution is some chemical compound that may trigger any issue.
          So , it seems either oregano oil or high probably mupirocin affected my intestines negatively.

        • L June 26, 2019 at 9:05 am

          Not sure why you would take a salt solution, but no it does not seem like it would cause issues.

        • selcem ersoy June 26, 2019 at 10:16 am

          As I understood they are using salt isotonic solution as a base for vitamin C, to dilute vitamin C. It was not my choice but doctor wanted me to take this serum for several sessions.

        • L June 26, 2019 at 10:25 am

          yeah, I just don’t think that caused your problems

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 26, 2019 at 10:26 am

          I,too,think it’s an isotonic salt solution,with the vit. C added. Not unusual,and quite safe.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 26, 2019 at 1:54 am

          Hi Selcem,I don’t think that solution could in any way have caused a negative reaction;it’s just vitamine C,water and salt. I’ve never seen anyone mention a negative reaction,while it’s a frequently used treatment for floxies.I didn’t hear,or read of negative reactions to vaccines in floxies,either,although I can imagine it is possible (lots of unhealthy added substances in vaccines!).Might be possible there’s fluoride in some,as well.

          Having seen your skin reactions after you used the oregano oil,it’s not hard to imagine what happened to your damaged intestines;those were already hit hard by the AB’s.But it all started with the AB’s,of course.

          Mupirocin cream for an allergic reaction doesn’t seem like a good idea,to me. It might have contibuted to your existing problems;I even read a warning,to tell your doctor when a large area needs to be treated,and the photo you sent shows that,when all of your body was as affected as the skin,shown on that photo,an extremely large area had to be treated. And I doubt it would have worked,anyway;Mupirocin is a topical antibiotic,to treat skin infections,and will not help at all, when used for an allercic reaction.

          Vitamin and mineral deficiency will,for sure,have played a roll.And it will keep on doing so,untill your intestines are healed and the vitamine and mineral absorption improved.Instead of puzzling over the reasons and causes,you’d better focus on what to do to improve your health.And stay away from “doctors” of the kind: “It might be this,so let’s try that”.Real scientific based medicine is not about guessing,and experimenting on what might work,or not work,on already heavily damaged patients.Most of these “doctors” wouldn’t even exept that kind of treatment for their cars!

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 26, 2019 at 2:10 am

          About decreasing the pain: there are many options: CBD oil,Curcuma,meditation,some light works in the garden (YES,this really works;its in fact,a combination of distraction and some meditation).There’s lots of info on natural pain treatment;some will work for you,some will not. But remember:as a floxie,be carefull with what you put in your mouth,or,even,on your skin.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 24, 2019 at 3:28 am

          Here’s a link to an Dr. Axe article about brainfog and natural remedies:


  27. selcem June 19, 2019 at 1:41 am Reply

    Hello again,

    Did anyone try Vitamin c serum injection? I had several times before. It contains 7-8 gram ascorbic acid+ Sodium Choride water.
    It was causing me dizziness but helping on allergy. Also, it causes back pain.

  28. Dee June 22, 2019 at 2:15 pm Reply

    Fellow Floxies. I found the following to be inspirational and also remind us to keep believing and to have faith and hope for our recovery and to lend a helping hand to other recovering floxies in their long and trying journey to heal!!!
    “One day you will tell your story of how you’ve overcome what you’re going through now, and it will become part of someone else’s survival guide”. Healing to all❤️

  29. Larry June 23, 2019 at 1:04 pm Reply

    Hello, well unfortunately I was floxed 2 months ago and the last dose got me. My only issue right now is full body neuropathy. My scalp is numb and sensitive, my face burns off and on, my hands, arms, legs, and feet are numb. I have the bee stings sensation from time to time. It hurts to do anything really because its in my back and stomach as well. My skin feels like an irritated sunburn. I know Im only 2 months out, but has anyone fully recovered from this type of neuropathy?

    • A.Coleman July 11, 2019 at 2:43 pm Reply

      Larry, hi hang in there. It will take time – a whole lot of time but your neuropathy will get better. It may never heal completely and you may see symptoms go away only to be replaced by new ones; but it will get better.

      Start taking lots of Magnesium including Epsom Salt foot soaks or baths. Add in a high quality Vitamin B supplement (preferably methylated versions) and also consider getting a Vitamin D check and supplementing accordingly after. You also might want to consider acupuncture.

      I am nearly 4 years out and the neuropathy in my feet is nearly gone – and I am one who has suffered longer than most. Neuropathy in hands went away first. I do still have a weird cold / tingly sensation in my lower legs; but that only started around 10 months ago; so I suspect that too will eventually go away or get a whole lot better.

      Time is your friend and a positive attitude. As your body learns to adapt it will be a little better even when the problems haven’t healed much. I would say my worst neuropathy lasted around 10 months and then stayed pretty level the next year to 18 months before it started getting better again. I do have days now where I am free of all neuropathy problems at least for a few hours.

      • Larry July 11, 2019 at 10:47 pm Reply

        Hello, thanks for your reply. I’m glad to hear that you got better, and it helps to know that time and patience is what helped. Thank you for the tips as well. I read the stories and just can’t believe what we have to or have had to deal with in this difficult journey. Happy healing.

  30. mlg June 23, 2019 at 3:43 pm Reply

    Hi everyone!

    I wanted to ask a few questions. Im not sure if iv been “floxed” but wanted to have some opinions/comments. Last monday, I took one 750mg cipro tablet for UTI. In the past I had a UTI and took one 750 and was fine. No side effects. I take this one and when trying to sleep that night had terrible insomnia/ felt ill. I woke up the next day and felt somewhat ok, still had an appetite, then that night when trying to go to sleep i felt as if the UTI was coming back (it didnt, but had some urgency signs) and it sent me a state of panic, well that anxiety has not come down. Iv never really been an anxious person but its been so bad. I have been sleeping but i dont feel like myself. I dont know if its just me constantly thinking about it all thats causing me to feel this way or if something seriously is wrong. my appetite has been shot as well. Im worrying iv been truly “floxed” and i dont know what to do. so far no other symptoms besides CNS, but i know they can be delayed. any help or comments would be great thanks!

    • L June 23, 2019 at 6:10 pm Reply

      You may well have been. The damage is cumulative, so if you did take it in the past, you could have met your “threshold.” I had floaters, numb fingers, and golf ball sized lump on my wrist after ONE pill. But I looked back over my pharmacy history, and sure enough, I had been given both cipro and Levaquin in the past.
      Make sure you are taking a good mag supplement (l-threonate, oratate, taurate are all very good ones) and take up to 800 mg as you can tolerate it. Avoid NSAIDS, fluoride, and get on a good probiotic.

  31. Don M June 24, 2019 at 9:46 am Reply

    Cold Laser therapy. Haven’t heard of it? Not surprising here in the United States. Here are a couple of excerpts from the article and a link to the article. Interesting because it discusses mitochondria and ATP. Both items are near the top of the list when floxies talk.

    The excerpt ……. Cold Laser Therapy has been in use since 1967 in Eastern Europe. Although it is rather “unknown” in America, Cold Laser Therapy has been researched and used extensively by Europe’s medical establishment. It has also been embraced by both the Chinese and Japanese as well.

    I assure you that if you ask your doctor about Cold Laser Therapy, one of two things will happen. He will either have a glazed over, deer-in-the-headlights look because he has no idea what you are talking about; or he will get visibly upset and start throwing around words like “Voodoo”, “Pixie dust” or “Witchdoctor”. Pay no attention to either reaction. The truth is that there is enough Scientific Research on Cold Laser Therapy to keep him reading for months if he cared to do so. In fact, current estimates are that between 250 – 300 peer-reviewed Scientific Studies on the effects of Cold Laser Therapy are being published each year!
    The link to the article…….. https://www.doctorschierling.com/blog/cold-laser-cure

    Read it…………. You will be surprised just how well it seems to dove tail into a possible treatment for a floxie.

  32. Michelle G. June 25, 2019 at 9:29 am Reply


    How has everyone dealt with the anxiety from CIPRO? Does it ever go away or does it linger for awhile? I

    • Don M June 25, 2019 at 4:14 pm Reply

      Check into CBD oil. Anxiety suppression is one of the things that is supposed to help. Be prepared for sticker shock. The reliably good stuff is expensive. Cheap junk will only disappoint you.

  33. Rose June 25, 2019 at 2:46 pm Reply

    Hi everyone,

    If anyone had had an experience with using Elidel creme for dermatitis after being floxed, pls share your experience. I was prescribed this creme for persisting dermatitis that started for the first time in my life after being floxed. Dermatologists are useless, each one I went to had a different diagnosis, one said Seborrheic Dermatitis and another said contact dermatitis. They have nothing to prescribe except steroids. Last one I saw prescribed Elidel creme and of course THIS TIME I RESEARCHED. Elidel has a black box warning that some people developed cancer after using it. Of course the doctor says it is absolutely safe…yeah! Heard that before when I was given Cipro. Trusting doctors is not an option anymore! Thanks for your help!

  34. Sheila June 26, 2019 at 2:27 pm Reply

    OMG I just learned about this toxicity!! I got a UTI the first time ever in my life back in 2012, doctor prescribed Cipro worked great, felt great. Then 3 weeks later got another UTI again cipro it was my little miracle drug…..this continued every 3 weeks getting put on Cipro for over a year an a half!!! It’s only in the last 5 years that I have felt like my life is only about 1/4 as active as it used to be. I am a leg amputee but I was still active, I went to the gym every day for 3 hours a day sometimes I would go twice a day, I did yoga, pilates, kick boxing etc. had no problem wandering around the home improvement stores on the weekends and going for long walks in the evening. Then 5 years ago it was like a light switch got turned off I literally felt great went to bed and couldn’t drag myself out of bed the next morning….my body felt like it had been poured full of lead overnight, I ached all over and was so tired I couldn’t believe it……I never got any better and in fact I started having sinus problems which I had also NEVER EVER had in my life again was prescribed Cipro….now I have been in physical therapy for joint pain in my elbows and wrists of course we all are thinking it’s years on crutches being an amputee but I was physically fine till the cipro….I have a bunch of the symptoms for this toxicity. What I want to do is fix it – what do I need to do to get this crap out of my body??? I am going to force myself to drag my tired body into a yoga class to help start the muscle detoxification but what else can I do??? I read that vitamin C, E and selenium are good choices but I don’t like the effects of Vitamin E either – any help?? any suggestions??

    • L June 26, 2019 at 4:12 pm Reply

      There are hundreds of posts that answer that question if you peruse the site, but here is the short list: LOTS of magnesium. Good choices are l-threonate, taurate and orotate. I was taking u to 800 mg for the first years. Avoid citrate it will cause diarrhea issues(may still get with others) and oxide is just probably the least bio available. Avoid fluoride in all things; add a good probiotic with multiple strains and billions of units. (You may want to look into fermented foods as well). The gut destruction from these drugs can effect all parts of your body. Since these toxins eat through connective tissue, go easy of the athletics for now. Yoga is probably a good choice. Eat clean…avoid GMOS, gluten if you can, and try to buy organic. Be especially leery of any meats that could have antibiotics in them. As for the fatigue it is likely from mitochondrial dna damage. Good supplements for that are Coq10 (ubiquinol form for those over 40); R alpha lipoic acid, l-carnitine, resveratrol, pqq, there are others. (I assume the kick boxing is with a prosthetic? Damn impressive.)

      • Justin Baghai June 26, 2019 at 5:07 pm Reply

        Hey L, I’m 8 months out still dealing with a lot of muscle stiffness/swelling/imbalances, and a host of other odd symptoms. Nothing debilitating but still life altering. I’m 27M (26 when floxed off 2 pills of Levaquin). I’m going to start doing 2x weekly IV’s for the next 2 months to see if it will help. Do you have any recommendations on which ones helped most? Going to start with POLY MVA and Myers Cocktails. I appreciate the help!

        • L June 26, 2019 at 5:30 pm

          Myers is a great one to start with…lots of mag and bs. Also high dose vitamin C is good. I also got phosphatidylcholine, which is supposed to help with both nerve and mito damage. Hard to say which helped the most as I got them all during the same period. But I think they must have helped a lot since I was SO damaged. My doctor didn’t have the poly mva at the time, but it also has some great ingredients including NAC (precursor to glutathione) and Alpha lipoic acid, a supplement with SO many benefits…

      • Sheila rogers June 27, 2019 at 11:44 am Reply

        Hi and THANKS for the info – I tried reading the whole website here but wow it’s a huge site so asking seemed to be the most efficient way to find the answers – and no I haven’t ever used a prosthetic cause I am a hip dis-artic I have no hip joint just the pelvis bone left on that one side so I did kick boxing classes on my one leg – which goes to prove I had exceptional balance and I could stand all day long on my right leg – BUT then the cipro claimed all that I no longer have the balance I had and my right leg is twitchy about standing too long on it – Cipro took what was left of my life and threw it in the garbage. I used to have so much fun – I would lay my crutches down and hop around to play water balloon toss games and play frisbee on my one leg and my first yoga class my teacher was not afraid of me she came right over grabbed me and became my left leg so I could “strike the pose” hahaha but the kick boxing teacher she was stunned to even see me walk through the door and just watched to see how I modified things I am very body aware and knew what muscles were being worked and could modify my moves but still work the same muscle groups – I was about to look into becoming a personal trainer for disabled individuals when Cipro claimed my life – so thanks for the input I will go easy on the exercise but I have to do something my weight is creeping up and that’s bad for my one leg and joints – I wish I had known about this black box warning before ever taking the stuff…….I’m not sure I understand all the “cocktail” information that this site provides but I will try to learn as quickly as possible

        • L June 27, 2019 at 1:01 pm

          So sorry you had to become a member of our “club.” You are amazing!!! I am sure I don’t even come close, but I used to be able to do 8 chin-ups. I had just started being able to do one again, when my shoulder went out. Got prolozone injections to help it along.

          As for as using the site, it is best if you are zeroing in on a specific side effect of supplement. But yeah…ask away!

      • Sheila rogers June 27, 2019 at 11:50 am Reply

        continuing to read – what is all this stuff??? I have no clue what is being referred to in this statement can you clarify:
        “poly mva at the time, but it also has some great ingredients including NAC (precursor to glutathione) and Alpha lipoic acid, a supplement with SO many benefits…”

        • Sheila rogers June 27, 2019 at 12:20 pm

          ok so I have been doing more reading and certainly eat enough foods that contain the Phosphatidylcholine but looked into a multi vitamin to make sure the info I inserted was strictly the Phosphatidylcholine and a vitamin came up but I don’t see anything about Phosphatidylcholine or choline or lecithin specifically on the label would that mean it has none even though it was the first vitamin to pop up in my search request?? there’s no way to upload the pick of the label but I can retype all the ingredients if needed or maybe you know this one it’s “mega food women over 55 one daily” it’s listed on amazon but I found it through searching Phosphatidylcholine foods

        • L June 27, 2019 at 1:19 pm

          I took a look, and although it has some good stuff in it, a multi usually does not have anywhere near what you need of individual vitamins. EG Vitamin D (Weird it’s in mcg instead of IU (international units) and I am not sure about the conversion, but many of us are low in D, which is crucial for, among other things, BONES. My doctor put me on 10,000 IU after testing and now I take 5,000 daily.

          It also lists folic acid as the source of folate. MANY of us have the genetic mutation (MTHFR, and no I didn’t just swear there, but it’s a good way to remember it) that does not allow us to assimilate folic acid. And it’s not just that we don’t get the folate we need, but the folic acid ends up building up as a toxin. You can ask your MD for a test or this. One that does this and others is True Health Diagnostics and insurance covered it. They can also test you D and other levels.

          I didn’t see phosphatidycholine listed on the label, but I imagine that again, it is in too small an amount to be useful.

          Some sites I have found helpful for information on stuff like this are these doctors sites: Dr Axe; Dr Mercola (who has been blasted thanks to big pharma and AMA); Dr Hayman; Chris Kesser; Dr Group; Dr Perlmutter…

        • Sheila rogers June 27, 2019 at 12:25 pm

          never mind I just found this tidbit and don’t want to risk another issue:

          there was an association between dietary phosphatidylcholine intake and risk of type 2 diabetes. The risk for diabetes increased as intake of more phosphatidylcholine plus 100 mg of choline.

          Practice Pearls:

          This study indicated that dietary phosphatidylcholine intake may have some impact on increasing risk of type 2 diabetes.
          This finding may have opened up a new area of preventing type 2 diabetes.

        • Henk Noordhuizen June 27, 2019 at 1:05 pm

          Hi Sheila,I’ll try to give you a list of the most important supplements to begin with.First of all:you’ll need a good magnesium supplement.The best one’s are,in my opinion,Magnesium Glycinate (a chelated magnesium form),which is well absorbed,and magnesium L-Threonate,which also is absorbed very well,and it is the only form which easily passes the blood/brain barrier.This might be the preferable form for people with lots of mental problems due to being floxed.

          To speed up magnesium uptake,or when your stomach and/or intestines have problems with oral magnesium uptake,you can use the transdermal method: this is probably the best way to fight a magnesium deficiency:


          It is quite easy to make magn.oil,yourself: buy magnesium chloride salt flakes (Zechstein is the highest quality),and make an almost saturated solution.I use the Zechstein flakes,and with these flakes you’ll need 660 grams of flakes,and 6 dl. of destilled,or de-mineralized water or,when not available,the cleanest water you can find.Put both the water and the flakes in a pot and on a low fire stir untill al the salt is disolved.Let it cool down and put it in a clean bottle; you have just made about 1 liter of high quality magnesium oil.

          Why this is called magnesium oil while there isn’t a drop of oil in it? Put a bit on your hand and rub it;it has an oily feeling.This is,why atletes use the magnesium powder; it works as a gentle lubricator.You can by this magnesium oil as a ready to use product but it will cost you 6-8 times as much as when you make it yourself.

          When you use the oil for the first time,and have a large deficiency,it might,within miniutes,give a burning sensation.Try to keep it on your skin as long as possible,and then rinse it of with water,or take a shower.Put some of the oil and mix it 1:1 with (destilled) water.When still too concentrated,add some water,untill you can tolerate it (ideal is,to not rinse it off at all).After a while,when the deficiency is less severe;you may start using a higher concentration without having any burning sensations.

          Yoga might be a very good idea,indeed: it will relax your brain and muscles,and will probably be the second best thing to do,after the magnesium supplementation.You can add meditation to it for even more positive effect (I learned TM,years ago,and experienced it as an extremely powerfull form of meditation.I should really start using it,again).

          I wrote this to give you a startpoint without confusing you with to much info at a time.Of course,there are more usefull and important supplements to take,like Zinc,and vit. D (preferably the REAL source:sunlight >Way better than vit. D3 pills).But for now,I think this is the best way to start on your recovery.I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you’ll have a fast,and (near) total recovery.More questions? Just ask them; there are lots of lovely and helpfull people here,ready to answer them.

        • L June 27, 2019 at 1:09 pm

          “Poly MVA is a uniquely-formulated dietary supplement containing a proprietary blend of the mineral palladium bonded to alpha-lipoic acid, Vitamins B1, B2 and B12, formyl-methionine, N-acetyl cysteine, plus trace amounts of molybdenum, rhodium, and ruthenium. This formulation is designed to provide energy for compromised body systems by changing the electrical potential of human cells and facilitating aerobic
          metabolism within the cell.” https://polymva.com/about/

          B vitamins are important for nerve function, among other things. N-Acetyl Cysteine (commonly referred to as NAC) is a precursor to glutathione, the body’s master antioxidant. Alpha lipoic acid (or better R alpha lipoic acid has so many benefits. It is also good for the nerves, is anti-inflammatory (MANY of our side effects a result of too much inflammation), helps mitochondrial function (again, something many—perhaps all of us suffer from since the fluoroquinolones destroy mitochondrial dna.) The are other benefits too, and lots of sources out there but I would avoid sites like WebMD which has a very slanted anti-integrative, holistic bent.

      • Justin Baghai June 30, 2019 at 10:17 pm Reply

        What’s interesting is I can feel inflammation in many parts of my bodies as my muscles swell up randomly but my hsCRP and Sed Rates are incredibly low and so is my CPK. When did you first start to see serious progress? My floxing has been and up and down ride with a lot of the early symptoms such as vertigo, balance issues, tingling, insomnia, etc going away pretty quickly followed by months of new symptoms popping up/leaving and old symptoms waxing and waning. I’m no where in near as severe as your reaction and would put myself in the mild-intermediate category. This really is a cruel and ugly journey.

        • L July 1, 2019 at 9:04 am

          It is cruel. And senseless. It is odd that your CRP is good, but that’s a good sign. Perhaps what you are feeling is not actually inflammation but rather nerve issues. I also had things wax and wane, but the first side effect to go away was the excruciating pain in my back. That left within weeks of starting IVs, so that would have been a few months in. Then smaller things started to drop off and I would say the bigger issues around 1 1/2 years. I still have a half dozen side effects including the tinnitus, olfactory and visual sensitivity, PN in my toes and a couple other things.

        • Kyle July 1, 2019 at 12:55 pm

          L – my CPK is low as well 52IU, my doctor which at this point I just use to run tests wants me to see a Rheumatologist to rule out any possible connective tissue concerns. I believe you have written that Cipro/Lev does damage to your connective tissue, I’m curious if you to also had a low CPK level at one time and has it come back to the normal range over time, also is there a supplement that is used to help get your CPK back to normal levels?

        • L July 1, 2019 at 5:19 pm

          don’t recall that test result, and yes cipro can destroy any connective tissue…and yes ALL the doctors ALL want us to see a rheumatologist because they all think we must have lupus or some other disease and it could not possibly be from the cipro. Saw an awful rhematol., was sent for more testing and it all came back negative

  35. M June 26, 2019 at 6:30 pm Reply

    So are you fluoride-avoiders drinking spring water or what?

    I’d like to start drinking Mountain Valley Spring Water from glass bottles but am concerned about the small amount of fluoride. I realize it’s the “natural” kind as opposed to the man-made kind, but if we are so sensitive to fluoride will it make a difference?

    I’ve been drinking a fluoride-free bottled water for years now but I’d like to try and cut back on my plastic exposure. The city I live in fluorinates its water and I do have a sink filter, but I still don’t trust it enough.

    • L June 26, 2019 at 8:37 pm Reply

      I would get that mountain spring bottled water if they had in my area. I don’t think you have to worry about the naturally occurring fluoride. Not the same as the artificial fluoride that’s added to water. Also. many people drink reverse osmosis which doesn’t get rid of all the fluoride. If it were me, I’d definitely get it. (IT’s what my first naturopath had in his office, and I drank a lot of it, and I was SEVERLY damaged from the cipro.)

      • Madge Hirsch June 27, 2019 at 5:35 pm Reply

        I’m not sure L. Some people here have had relapses from drinking tea and I think it might have happened to me. Last week I had two cups of tea one Darjeeling and the other Earl Grey. Up till then I had definitely seen an improvement in my symptoms and since have had a return of the tendonitis in my thighs and hips plus other symptoms. The fluoride in teas from India and China is from naturally high fluoride levels in the soil that the tea plant incorporates. People who drink the water in these areas can suffer from a type of fluoride poisoning that attacks their bones and teeth.

        • L June 27, 2019 at 6:47 pm

          well black tea is very high in fluoride. On the other hand with something like Mountain valley water you are talking about parts per million. As I mentioned, my doctor had this line delivered to his office and he treated a number of floxies. I suppose anyone could react to anything, but again, I was about as damaged as anyone I now from cipro, and I would get this water if they delivered to my area. I supposed one way to know is to do a trial of it. I also imagine a LOT of floxies on this site have opted for bottled water or even r/o which does not remove all fluoride.

    • lisalisa12years July 1, 2019 at 6:19 am Reply

      Zero water is great it takes everything out including the ” Flourine” which is a bio- hazard that the company would have to pay to dispose of if cities weren’t stupid enough to buy it for their water supplies. My TOWNSHIP stopped using it years ago as elderly people complained it interfered with their medications. Good luck best health possible.

      • L July 1, 2019 at 9:11 am Reply

        I found this and it lists some things that zero water does NOT remove. Also if you are using any filtering that removes everything, like distilled, you want to add back in the minerals you are missing. There is a supplement called ConcenTrace that does this. https://www.easyhome101.com/does-zero-water-filter-remove-fluoride/

  36. joanneb4 June 29, 2019 at 8:55 pm Reply

    Can we use salicylic acid in skin care products or shampoo? I have clogged pores and get milia from it and this helps treat it but is it like aspirin?

    • Anna July 1, 2019 at 6:34 am Reply

      I have milia and use Retin A and it works well. I also drink alcohol and lots of coffee without any issue, but tea (mint tea) caused be problems before.

      • joanneb4 July 1, 2019 at 9:42 am Reply

        What shampoo and soap and skin care products are safe to use?

        • Henk Noordhuizen July 1, 2019 at 10:19 am

          Regarding the soap:i play it safe by making my own cocos oil soap.Just Cocos oil,NaOH,water and (pure luxury ;-)) some essential oil (my favorites: mandarin, and Atlantic Ceder). I use this soap for my body and my hair.My toothpaste is 100% natural,and bio.For skin care: cocos oil.I use 100 % natural dish soap,as well as 100% natural cloth washing detergents. In fact,I think these choices are the better ones,not just for floxies but also for healthy people (to stay healthy),anf for the environment.

        • joanneb4 July 1, 2019 at 10:52 am

          Thanks Hank. Can you tell me the name brands of your toothpaste, laundry detergent and dish soap? I’m really struggling with skin issues from not sweating anymore.

        • Henk Noordhuizen July 1, 2019 at 11:00 am

          Hi Joanne,My toothpaste is Lavera,My laundry detergent is Bio-D,and my dish soap is Ecover (but I intend to switch to Bio-D for the dish soap,as well;Ecover is,on some products,”only” 96 % bio/natural.

  37. Henk Noordhuizen June 30, 2019 at 1:37 am Reply

    Here’s an article by Dr. Mercola,about UTI’s,antibiotics and natural ways to treat UTI’s This is where,for many of us,the missery started (way to often even for a SUSPECTED UTI).

    For Selcem: this is what Dr. Mercola advices on herbal (essential ) oil use:”Make sure to do a skin patch test prior to using any essential oil.”It’s one of his advises in this article:


    • Sheila rogers June 30, 2019 at 2:41 pm Reply

      I was dealing with UTI’s every 3 weeks after getting in a hot tub at the beach in the house we rented – a year an half of UTI’s every 3 weeks – hence the cipro for every one of those!! anyway having those UTI’s that frequently I managed to stop them with a supplement that others might find helpful – it’s D-Mannose it’s the concentrated component in cranberries which cranberries never really helped me but this stuff did and does – I did not take the label dosage I felt that was just too much for me – I took 2 in the morning, 2 at lunch and 2 before bed – I did that for a few weeks then I backed off to 2 in the morning and 2 at night then it was 1 in the morning and 2 at night and now I only take 1 at night sometimes 2 at night if my intuition tells me too. I use the NOW brand and it’s great. I have not had a UTI but once and that was because I ran out of D-Mannose and had not taken it for a week……it keeps me off meds and out of the dr’s office!!! I highly recommend if you have UTI’s to try this and see if it helps.

      • Henk Noordhuizen July 1, 2019 at 7:50 am Reply

        UTI’s,every three weeks?Wow! Sounds like a chronic infection,with regular flare-up’s.And Cipro,every time?When this hasn’t solved the problem,the first,and the second time,what’s the logic behind using it,time,and time again?

        I see info,everywhere,that D-Mannose works well as a preventive but doesn’t cure UTI’s.But it did help you to cure yours? As far as I know,D-Mannose prevents bacteria from sticking to the bladder wall.And,combined with a high fluid (water) intake this should theoretically be able to flush out the critters and cure the UTI.Might all that info about “not able to cure” be ment to drive you to a doctor and use AB’s,every time a UTI occurs?

        I have sleeping problems for most of my life.And I’m tired,even after a rather good night of sleep (so;not very often :-(( since I started using Losec,in 1998/1999,,which resulted in a growing deficiency of magnesium. Magnesium supplementation really helps a lot (way less nightmares,deeper sleep),and for falling asleep faster I use Melatoning (the minimum dose I need;right now 0,8 mg,sometimes going down to 0.6-0.7 mg,when I feel that this lower dose is enough for the time).And I drink a big mug of Camomilla tea,shortly before going to sleep.You’d be suprised to experience how much difference just that Camomilla tea can make a difference! Those three things,together,work fine for me,and they are healthy and cheap.

        • L July 1, 2019 at 9:22 am

          Yes, I have read that d mannose helps prevent the little buggers from sticking but it is not a cure. It is best used preventatively, or in conjunction with other things if you actually get a UTI. Chris Kesser claims it can be used as a treatment but only with those caused by e coli. When MY ND treated me it was only one of several things I was given for treatment. I don’t remember the amounts but it was used in conjunction with high doses of A, C and Herb PHarm’s Urinary System support. Even with all that it took about a month to get rid of it. I would not rely on d mannose alone for treatment. https://kresserinstitute.com/treat-prevent-utis-without-drugs/

        • Sheila rogers July 1, 2019 at 11:07 am

          yes every 3 weeks what happened was this – I can trace all this back to one stupid mistake – we wanted to take our Rottweiler to the beach we adopted him when he was 8 and he had cancer so the beach as a last send off would be fun right? it was but the house we rented a new build had a hot tub I had never been in a hot tub what would be the harm – I got in and it was wonderful…..till I got home – within a week and half I had a UTI I told my Dr. about the hot tub she said that would do, I NEVER had a UTI ever in 40+ years so this was new, I told myself never get in a hot tub ever again, but that wasn’t the end of it…..after taking my first round of cipro for the UTI I got about a 3-4 week window of no UTI even on recheck with the urine spinning down – no UTI. But then poof it would reoccur so we knew we had a deep seated bacteria but she continued to prescribe cipro and other antibiotics with it……then she said if I continued to have them we would have to scope the bladder for cancer etc I refused as I had had my bladder scoped once before and it was like razor blades ripping my insides out…..anyway cipro was the drug of choice for a year an a half – then when I got an all clear on recheck I began taking the D-Mannose and haven’t had but one since and that’s been 5 years or more so I swear by D-Mannose as a prevention against UTI’s my mom doesn’t want to take it till she gets a UTI and that won’t work it has to be when you are clear of the bacteria as it is a binding agent not a cure one of these days I will get her to believe me on that one. So that’s how I became Floxed it all started with that hot tub at the beach

        • Henk Noordhuizen July 1, 2019 at 12:11 pm

          That’s quite a story,Sheila.”cipro was the drug of choice”:the doc’s choice,or yours? This should be a very effective AB,but failoed on your UTI,several times,what amazes me.And doc’s don’t prescribe D-Mannose as aftercare,and to prevent new UTI’s.Have you told the doc about your good experience with D-mannose?

          I think that going to the beach with your sick dog was a great thing to do! I hade a German Shepard,years ago,and he could spend hours in the water.When I threw a stone in the water,near him,he kept on diving untill he found that one stone,among others,on the bottom;I never understood how he managed to do that.And I,and other people on the beach were amazed how long he could stay under water,while seaching.Maybe he was an incarnation of a pearldiver,or so :-))

          Enjoying that hot tub was NOT a stupid mistake;nobody would have guessed it could make you sick,and they ought not to do so.So, don’t blame yourself; it’s not your fault.
          Another option,for curing,might be Colloidai Silverwater;has anyone ever tried? After I read some of the anti-silver propaganda (it doesn’t work,and it;s dangerous) I spend some time on,mainly,PubMed,and was amazed by the research,done during the past few years,proving it;s effectiveness and safety.Farmafia at it’s best:scaring people off of natural remedies untill you find a way to patent it and let them pay gold for what was ones cheap,or even free.

          I had my first bladder infection,years ago,caused by a kidney stone,and because of the fever I went to the doc.(the same that,later on,floxed me). Although she had assured me to be very reluctant on prescribing medication some months before,when I entered her practice room for the first time,this time she immediatly prescribed an B.At that time I already started treating my belly and bladder with my (then home-build) Magnetic Pulser,and after visiting the doc,and visiting the Pharmacia for the AB,while walking home,I noticed that the fever was coming down (that strange feeling,almost like being tipsy,was vanishing).

          So,I didn’t take the medication but went on with the pulser,and within a few days I was oké (and the stone had passed).Years later,after being floxed,I found that medicine back,untouched,and that was Cipro;the same AB she just floxed me with,12 years later.I remember that,when I told het that I didn’t use the medication because the MPulser workes,she was angry,and I didn’t understand.What’s better for preventing resistant bacteria than NOT using AB’s when not neccesary?

          The second time,in sept.2016,I had a quite high fever (39,9 degrees),a bladder infection,caused by a kidney stone that got stuck between my bladder and the toilet pot,and a double gut bleeding (one,probably,a diverticul),and I was in terrible pain.If not the npain and the fever,I would have probably refused this AB,once again,or wouldn’t have taken it.Had she told me that it was a Bayer product,I wouldn’t have taken it,for shure;that’s the most evil company in the world and I don’t want them to earn a penny from me.

          Two times Cipro,two times Paroxitine (both times refused);my doc (the female one;practices together with a male doc.) has a short list of preferred “medicines”,Although she was just,by mail,advices Not to prescribe me any Cipro because of another medicine I use,she did it anyway,and got anry when I told here later that I stopped after 4 pills,because of the severe reactions.Well,now I AM ANGRY,after having discovered WHY she wasn’t allowed to prescribe me the Cipro.Her gamble,my risk,and it turned out to be one big mistake (her’s).

        • Sheila rogers July 1, 2019 at 12:27 pm

          wow that’s a convoluted story too…..love shepherds too…..our Rottweiler never swam but he sure loved the beach he saw me picking up nice large shells and began hunting out large shells for me to pick up….and he would get so excited when I would pick up the shell he pointed out, oh how I miss him…..but yes cipro was such a great drug for me – or so I thought at the time – that I didn’t have any clue I should not be taking it I thought I had found the little miracle pill……it’s only been in the last couple of weeks that I found out cipro was not a good choice and now I find out that all the complaints I have been trying to get the doc to pay attention to are most likely due to cipro poisoning – so I am still in the first week of shock that this is my life now……

        • Henk Noordhuizen July 1, 2019 at 2:18 pm

          The most evil thing with Cipro and other FQ’s is the fact that most people don’t notice a thing while taking the pill’s.The problems start after having ended the course,sometimes quite long after ending the course,and while some floxie symptoms vanish after a while,others might appear.

          Even after a long while of being without symptoms,suddenly,after a cup of tea,or,as it often happens,without any known cause,the symptoms are back,again. Those relapses are terrifying; I had to stop drinking tea,the main drink for most of my life.Could hate my doc,just for that thing,alone.

          Most docs don’t know a thing about “being floxed”.And most of them don’t care,or even don’t want to hear any complaints about their “miracle drugs”.Mine got angry when I wanted to talk about my adverse reactions and she stopped me from talking.I’m sure she’s never registrated any adverse reactions of Cipro;she said (actually,almost shouted):” I have never heard any complaint about this drug” (Cipro). Those “docs” are the worst,because they are responsable for keeping these dangerous drugs in the market,and being prescribed for innocent infections,way too long,while hearting,damaging,and even killing people.

      • Don M July 3, 2019 at 9:48 am Reply

        I had continuous UTI infections for 25 years and was on every antibiotic that the doctors could find then Cipro came to market. I took it and it stopped the infection but the UTI infections would reoccur so I would take Cipro each time. Over a period of 30 years I probably took about 1,000 Cipro pills. I appeared to be one of the more fortunate ones who did not have the severe effects from Cipro. No doubt the effects were there but in a milder form. As many have said there is a limit. I reached that limit and now must deal with the problems of a floxie. NO MORE CIPRO or any other Fluoroquinolone. Enter D-Mannose. I learned about D-Mannose and have been using it as a deterrent. It works and works well against eColi but be aware…….. it does not work against other bacteria. Research has shown that eColi have receptors on their surface that D-Mannose sticks to. Also the D-Mannose will coat the surfaces of the urinary tract. Between the two eColi can not stick and stay in the urinary tract so it is washed out. If you get UTIs that are eColi try D-Mannose. D-Mannose works.

  38. Justin Baghai July 1, 2019 at 9:58 am Reply

    Yes I think it certainly could be neurological. Any time I’m stressed or have any stimulus to my nervous system my muscles are hyper excitable and tense up/inflame. It’s random and comes and goes. Hoping this goes away eventually as it’s easily my worst symptom. I also have some muscle wasting in my left leg not sure if that’s nerve related or not. Physical therapy is helping to strengthen my leg again. I can actually jog and lift weights fairly easily with a few problems but my muscles are so tight they don’t respond correctly. I’m hoping my age and only 2 pills will help me recover faster but I’m learning this is going to be a long road. Thanks for your help L!

  39. Don M July 7, 2019 at 10:01 am Reply

    In a previous post I mentioned Cold Lasers and light therapy. Here is an article that describes what light therapy is. https://www.mylighttherapy.com/led-light-therapy.html
    Pay particular attention to the part near the end where it discusses mitochondria, ATP and DNA. Might this be a help in overcoming the bad effects of floxing by Fluoroquinolones?

    • L July 7, 2019 at 10:09 am Reply

      Odd that it says it can treat eye disease, because LED lights are actually bad for your eyes. https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/10/23/near-infrared-led-lighting.aspx

      • Henk Noordhuizen July 7, 2019 at 11:27 am Reply

        According to Mercola,and the sources he mentions,it’s only the blue led light that’s bad for the eyes.But be aware;in white led light there’s quite a lot of blue light,making the light of white leds risky for the eyes,as well.

      • Don M July 9, 2019 at 6:18 pm Reply

        L…..Read the part about reversing blindness and promise for eye injuries. Yes…….. blue light is not healthy for the eyes but other colors seem to have benefits. Medical lasers are used in the treatment of eye problems so it appears that all lasers are not detrimental to the eyes.
        Your right Henk. There is a lot of blue light mixed in with white in many applications. Think computer screens and cell phone screens.

  40. jo July 8, 2019 at 12:13 pm Reply

    I have read some articles about the heavy metals being a big issue, what are you thoughts and any solutions?

    • Henk Noordhuizen July 8, 2019 at 2:49 pm Reply

      The same advise as to every body else,healthy or not:keep away as far as possible from all toxic heavy metals.But: not all heavy metals are (as) toxic,and some,such as chromium, copper, zinc and iron are even essential for human health.

  41. Tim July 10, 2019 at 8:57 am Reply

    Hi everyone,
    I hope you guys can help me… I am new to this and, frankly, quite scared right now.

    I am male, 36 years old, very active/sportive and with no preexisting conditions.

    I was prescribed Levofloxacin 500mg 2 weeks ago for a possible infection (which since turned out to not be an infection at all…). I took one pill that evening and the next day went online to check for possible side effects. As you all can imagine, I was shocked and immediately discontinued the drug.

    For the first 10 days, I felt only very minor side effects (one foot felt hot for 15 mins, slight tension in the tendons sometimes), which I thought I might be imagining since I had been quite worried since I had read about the side effects.

    Since last Saturday, however, I experienced
    – a sensation of cold water in running over my forearms and legs (relatively mild and not painful, but unnerving), suddenly felt strong anxiety and was very exhausted after only moderate amounts of walking.
    – brain, fog which thankfully got better after a day.
    – I have been thirsty nonstop, but have lost my appetite.
    – On Sunday, my joints suddenly started popping a lot (still happening).
    – Yesterday, I went for another walk outside and came home with beginning calf cramps and again some slight pain in the achilles. Overnight, I felt some pain in my calf, and tingling/heat in my arms and legs.

    I still have the tingling/water sensation in my arms and legs and feel way too weak and exhausted. All of this is highly unusual to me, I just don’t feel “normal”, and I’m 99% sure its the Levofloxacin doing its damage.

    Now I am scared of where this might end, and if I’ll ever feel normal again. Is it likely after one dose and the late onset of symptoms that I might be a mild case and the symptoms might go away again? I know there’s no one answer to this, but I’d be so thankful for any thoughts…

    What could I best do to help my recovery? I currently take Magnesium, Vitamin & Mineral, and Zinc Supplements which appear to have helped against the brain fog.

    I’d really appreciate any support, I feel quite helpless with this right now as the doctor only tells me “it’s unlikely” to be from the drug.

    Thank you in advance and I wish you all the very, very best for your recovery.

    • Sheila rogers July 10, 2019 at 11:11 am Reply

      oh gosh tim you sound like some of my symptoms with the cold water feeling and the sudden fatigue after small exercise, brain fog, and joints popping, and other stuff…..I don’t have any answers wish I did – mine came from Cipro….I did find a good supplement I still want to try called PQQ20 for the mitochondria since that seems to be what we need to boost the most get the toxic cells eradicated, I don’t recommend brands but I use Andrew Lessman cause of the environmental concerns the company has while making the supplements…if someone else here has a better suggestion I am all ears…..I don’t know if your symptoms are considered mild or something that will correct itself – I know for me I expect to not be rid of my symptoms since it’s been 5-6 years that I was on Cipro on/off and I just found this group which I now know my symptoms have all been cipro poisoning I thought I was losing my mind and health all at once and that something serious was happening of course it is serious but to have something to point to is a definite relief – maybe you can mention this to your doctor and if you have a doctor who is up on info he/she will immediately know that you need to get those toxins out now and help you…..my doctor well she just ignored me for the past 5 years and now I am suffering daily……..I am a bit angry along with frustrated and very very upset cause I have always taken excellent care of myself and never ever took drugs of any sort unless I HAD to I even went through a leg amputation with only two doses of pain meds cause I hate meds that much, but this one I took and now I beat myself up cause it’s the one that I should have never taken…..so I am angry at myself and upset about my health and it’s future……..not sure if that’s the support you wanted but that’s what I can offer I can join you in the shock and upset

      • Tim July 10, 2019 at 1:26 pm Reply

        Sheila, thank you for your reply, I’m very sorry that you had to suffer for all those years, and I hope you will get better in the future!

        I think the symptoms I described are fairly common for those affected by FQs, and as you will see on this page there are a lot of positive recovery stories as well.

        Do some of the regular posters here maybe have a thought on how this might progress for me and what I can do about it? I would be grateful for any insight!

        Thank you and all the best,

    • Henk Noordhuizen July 10, 2019 at 2:03 pm Reply

      Hi Tim,first of all:don’t panic! This is very important,really. I think that,with the magn.zinc,vitamines and minerals,you’re doing the best you can do for yourself,at the moment,already.The thirst might be your body,trying to flush out the poison (should be done,by now),or it might be a sign of your bloodsugar level being out of balance. A glucose meter might be of help,here,to measure how your BSL reacts after a meal.Just to be sure.

      Your doc should not have prescribed you the Levofloxacin,for a suspected infection.I don’t know where you live but here,in the EU,all doctors had a letter from the EMA,last year,with strict advices to not perscribe FQ’s for suspected infections,or infections that are not life threatening, and only after other antibiotics have failed.The risk for severe ,and possibly permanent adverse reactions is too high.

      It might take a while but,with your age and the fact that you only took one dose,things will probably turn out to be alright for you,in a while.You’ll need a bit of patience;it will take time to fully heal.

      One advice: avoid any fluoride,in water,toothpaste,food (tea,to name one) and medicines.

      I wish you luck!

      • Tim July 10, 2019 at 2:16 pm Reply

        Dear Henk,
        thank you so much for your reply, you’ve really helped a lot. I am also from the EU but currently in Canada – and I agree, he should have never prescribed this. I try not to think about it because holding grudges doesn’t really help.

        Just to be sure, were you suggesting the BSL test because my symptoms could also be related to diabetes? I have been wondering that myself, but could not explain the joint popping with that diagnosis…

        I will definitely throw out the fluoride toothpaste tonight and get a different one.

        Thank you again, Henk, and all the best to you!

        • Henk Noordhuizen July 11, 2019 at 3:27 am

          Hi Tim,the popping of your joints,and the (possibly) unstable bloodsugar have only one connection: the fact that both are on the same,long list of adverse reactions,caused by Fluoroquinolones.Other antibiotics might cause an unstable BSL as well;the first time I experienced this reaction was in 2004,on Metronidazole and Amoxicilline;I had to use both at the same time and it took me years to restore most of my health.

          Both the brain fog and the extreme thirst might be signs of a BSL that’s out of control.That’s the reason it might be wise to measure how you react on your usual meals,and adjust your diet,if neccesary.Too high BS levels can give a lot of damage to your body (eyes,organs,brains),and FQ’s are known to cause hyper- and hypoglycemia in patients,sometimes.There could be other reasons for the thirst,and brainfog can be caused by other FQ damage,but you’d better be sure because of the risks of a strongly fluctuating BSL.

          Having stopped after just one pill was a bright idea,and probably limited the FQ damage a lot.Chances of a full and quick recovery are good,for you. I should have done the same;got very hefty heart palpitations,a few hours after the first pill,but the way medics put pressure on people to finish the course made me stop after pill number four (2 per day),and,in my opinion,four pills too late.Shouldn’t have taken that course,in the first place,after the problems the first course,in 2004,caused ,and lasted for years.

          Other supplements that might be of use are those for mitochondrial support,and for collagen support (popping joints and tendon problems).FQ’s cause tremendous damage to mitochondria,which,in turn,causes a long list of health problems:


          When you descide to buy a glucose meter,you need to use a measure protocol: first thing in the morning,before breakfast,and four times on every meal (just before starting to eat,immediatly after finishing the meal (this one might be skipped),and one,and two hours after the meal, and write down what you ate,how much of each ingredient (especially the carbs),and the measurements.Be sure to measure with clean hands;just a tiny bit of glucose on the finger where you take the blood is enough to make that measurement useless.When you don’t know what your measurements mean,place them here,on Floxiehope,for some explanation.

  42. sheila July 10, 2019 at 8:16 pm Reply

    I am looking at Mitochondria support and have found two – one includes the B vitamins (1, 2, 6, 12) and 20mg of Pyrroloquinoline, vit C, niacin, biotin, pantothenic acid the other one has 108 mg calcium and 20mg Pyrroloquinoline that’s it – which one would be best I would think that the one that has the B’s would be better but I was curious what you guys thought.

    • Henk Noordhuizen July 11, 2019 at 3:34 am Reply

      Hi Sheila,I searched the web for some usefull information and found this:


      I hope this helps you find the right supplement (s);will be hard to find one that contains all the substances,mentioned in the summary. When you find one,please,let us know.

    • A.Coleman July 11, 2019 at 2:20 pm Reply

      Sheila, really tough IMO for a Floxie to take a multi-vitamin. We all need such different things and typically need high quantities and best absorbed versions of all vitamins and minerals.

      I would suggest splitting up everything you need as much as possible. Personally I take a Ubiqunol with PQQ in one tablet, L-carnitine in another, and liposomal glutathione as a liquid for a third mitochondrial support supplement. I also take methylated versions of the B vitamins since I am heterozygote for the C677T MTHFR gene.

      Also when you take one tablet with lots of different things in it figuring out what is working and you might want to increase and what is hurting and you might want to eliminate becomes difficult.

      Good luck

  43. Don M July 13, 2019 at 3:26 am Reply

    I am posting this again with quotes from the article https://www.mylighttherapy.com/led-light-therapy.html I post it because it discusses ATP and DNA which seem to be very important items in the treatment of floxies. It appears that light therapy (Cold Lasers and other light sources) may be of help in treating the floxed problem. Along with all the other methods light therapy may be of help. ATP
    The boost in enzymes creates more ATP or Adenosine triphosphate. More ATP means more energy. More energy means easier and faster healing … and being better able to handle life’s challenges and enjoy the process.

    Dr. Whelan sums up the NASA sponsored research with regards to energy:

    So far, what we’ve seen in patients and what we’ve seen in laboratory cell cultures, all point to one conclusion, … The near-infrared light emitted by these LEDs seems to be perfect for increasing energy inside cells. … the LEDs boost energy to the cells and accelerate healing.5

    Dr. Tiina Karu emphasizes the importance of ATP saying “… ATP is not only an energy currency inside cells, but it is also a critical signaling molecule that allows cells and tissues throughout the body to communicate with one another.”22

    How do cells know what to do? It starts with DNA. Each cell contains DNA—a spiral shaped storehouse for light and sound frequencies—and the blueprint for a cell to replenish or replace itself. DNA is our blueprint for health.

    Dr. Whelan explains how light applied in both the red and near infrared ranges worked: “Furthermore, DNA syntheses in fibroblasts and muscle cells has been quintupled using NASA LED light alone …”23

    This means the forming power of our cells has been increased by five times in muscle cells with the application of three colors of LED light in the red to NIR range.

    Summing Up
    LED light stimulates a powerful team to harness our cells for health and energy—enzymes, ATP and DNA. It is also important to note that Dr. Karu emphasizes that LED light acts as a trigger to start the healing process. In other words, healing effects continue after the light source has been removed.

    LEDs have given us a convenient and easy way to use light therapy for health. LED technology has made it easy to add special healthy frequencies to light therapy. The Nogier frequencies, in particular, are known to boost the healing power of the LED light therapy.

    Light therapy is a trigger to help maintain the flow of our natural electrical and chemical systems. LED technology has brought us a wonderful tool for health.

    For what it is worth……………. it appears that light therapy would be a good ad on to other things that floxies use to treat their problems.

    • Henk Noordhuizen July 22, 2019 at 2:19 am Reply

      Hi Don,thanks for this info. (Led-) Light therapy might be a safe and effective way to strengten the body and it’s immune system.Everybody knows,or should know how important getting enough sunlight is,and the health effect of sunlight is not limited to vit.D creation; the advantages of the Near Infrared component of sunlight,and,with the availability of Near Infrared leds,artificial light as an alternative source,are studied and known for a long time.

      You will know by now that,after having build the devices,needed for the Beck Protocol,I was so amazed how effective these are that I decided to buy the luxury versions from Sota Instruments (these are endorsed by Bob Beck,and he and Russ Torlage (Sota) became good friends).Well,since a couple of years Russ Torlage added one new device to assortment: the Lightworks.

      This caught my attention,and after having read quite a lot about the advantages, devices like this could have for somebody with a compromised health,I put it on my shopping list.Just the high costs for obtaining both the Lightworks and the availible additional paddles with other light colors kept me from buying;have to wait untill for a richer (+ less poor ;-)) period in my life.The “kit” paddle is Red on one side,and Near Infrared on the other side (all three paddles are equipped with two differend colors,one on each side).

      Here’s some info on the Lightworks.Not enough for me;I have to write Russ Torlage to ask him more about some technical details (what led brand;I prefer CREE,how high is the output,and maby a few other details):


    • Henk Noordhuizen July 22, 2019 at 2:24 am Reply

      Here’s a link to a publication by Bob Beck,with all info,needed to understand the protocol and to build the devices,and a lot more on the subject.Mind:it is edited in 2015,by somebody else (who added some very usefull information);the original can be found on the bobbeck website:


  44. Erin July 13, 2019 at 8:43 pm Reply

    Does anyone know any good acupuncturist in San Diego? Or any good doctors near sd?

  45. Henk Noordhuizen July 14, 2019 at 3:28 am Reply

    Here’s an article on the Dr.Mercola website,about food,and about modern food to be the cause of Macular Degeneration,and all other forms of degeneration.Ancestral Dietary,and avoiding vegetable- and seed oils and minimizing refined white flour and sugar are the most important things to do,when you want to fight this degeneration.

    I want to add this:the Ancestral Dietary Strategy is,in my vision,just one part of the solution,and because Dr. Chris Knobbe is an ophthalmologist,he focussed his resaerch mainly on the eye degeneration,and expended his research to the rest of the body,while focussing on the influence of food.But there is an other cause of health degeneration,and detoriation as well: chemicals,including synthetic drugs/farmaceuticals.Those should be avoided where possible,otherwise the ancient diet,or any other diet, won’t help that much.

    • Don M July 14, 2019 at 7:20 am Reply

      Henk……….. Right on. All the (laboratory contrived) medications in the world will not offset the damage that today’s world of chemicals and some (so called) medicines can do.

      • Henk Noordhuizen July 14, 2019 at 9:29 am Reply

        Hi Don,nor will any diet,Ancestral or other,fully compensate for the chemical damage (including synthetic drugs/”medicines”),but Ancestral,and other diets might help,or at least limit the damage,instead of adding to it.I think Dr. Knobbe,and Weston Price,have done a great job!

  46. Henk Noordhuizen July 14, 2019 at 9:53 am Reply

    I found some info on a mushroom which might be able to restore some of the nerve- and braindamage,caused by FQ’s:


    There might be (mild?) adverse reactions,and the effect isn’t permanent,as far as known today.

  47. Henk Noordhuizen July 14, 2019 at 9:56 am Reply

    Here some more info on that mushroom:


    I’ve found a dutch webshop selling grow sets for this,and many other mushrooms (I’m growing Shiitake,already,for 6 or seven years;nice hobby :-)) Lion’s manes might be added.

  48. Attila July 14, 2019 at 11:03 am Reply

    Hi! I have noticed that in the evenings my symptoms are relieved, and sometimes I feel like I am old again. No anxiety – or just very small. But during the day i’m anxious again – Why?? And nowadays after 18month of poisoning in the mornings I’m not able to wake up… I don’t drink coffee, and any alcohole since 18month but still struggling 🙂

    • Henk Noordhuizen July 15, 2019 at 2:11 am Reply

      Attila,maybe,during your sleep,your glucose level drops too low,forcing your body to produce adrenalin,which,in turn,”orders” the liver to release glucose into the blood.Adrenalin causes the anxiety feeling.

      You might try to,shortly before going to bed,eat just a little bit of food,e.g. half a slice of whole wheat bread,with enough meat or cheese,or peanut butter to slow down your digestion.

      That’s what works for me and others,according to a discussion,years ago,on a hypoglycemia forum. I still have to do this,on a daily base,to prevent nightly hypo’s.

  49. Henk Noordhuizen July 15, 2019 at 1:40 am Reply

    Today an article on the Mercola website,about Collagen.He writes about the collagen supps,and how to know which are the best,and that the cheapest way to obtain high quality Collagen is,to make a bone broth from the bones of organic grass fed or pastured animals:


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