Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




24,553 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Fred S September 2, 2019 at 3:11 pm Reply

    I am now paranoid over my Achilles tendon with slight pain today while walking – immediately stopped and put mag oil on it. Has anyone experienced ruptures or partial tears? If so, what were the signs? I squeezed on the tendon with my fingers and did not feel any pain – could be an ankle ligament or muscle issue. May go to doc for MRI to be sure.

    • L September 2, 2019 at 3:21 pm Reply

      I had torn meniscus. At first there was just pain especially going up and down stairs. Then one went “out” and I couldn’t walk on it. I realize that is not a tendon, but still connective tissue. Look into prolozone. IT helps your body heal naturally. (It’s an injection of procaine and ozone.) Also wanted to mention on supplements, it’s a good idea to take ubiquinol. All of us take a hit in the mitochondria which is the energy in all your cells. Co q 10 help with this, and if you are over 40, the form you want is ubiquinol, since it is more difficult for our bodies to utilize coq10 in that form.

      • Fred S September 2, 2019 at 3:27 pm Reply

        Thanks, L. What type of doctor would administer it? Is it a Regenerative medicine doctor or an Orthopedic doctor?

        • L September 2, 2019 at 4:32 pm

          Both! I got mine from my ND, but many sports medicine doctors and orthopods now use it. (Usually not covered by insurance, like all the good stuff, but not very expensive.) Also PRP. Some will use both.

      • Fred S September 2, 2019 at 3:33 pm Reply

        Found a guy who does it near me http://drshiple.com/what-s-new/doctors

        • L September 2, 2019 at 4:33 pm

          Looks good!

        • L September 2, 2019 at 4:35 pm

          BTW whenever I go to a new doctor I always go armed with the “dear doctor” letters. They both help educate, as well as explain what has happened. I usually use the top two from Dr Plumb and DR de Jong. https://floxiehope.com/2016/05/25/dear-colleague-letters-information-about-fluoroquinolone-toxicity-from-doctors-to-doctors/

        • Fred S September 2, 2019 at 4:40 pm

          Good advice. Just out of curiosity – do any get offended and tell you about their 30 years of experience?

        • L September 2, 2019 at 4:51 pm

          Early on they did. They’d roll their eyes, tell me to stop consulting “dr google” (dr google saved my life!), argue with me, refuse to look at anything I brought. Total blinders. But I am far more selective now. I look to see if there is anything at all that might mean they are more open. Like the doctor you are going to see. The mere fact that he offers these natural treatments is what is so promising.

  2. L September 3, 2019 at 10:56 am Reply

    I wanted to post this link because I think it may have valuable info for everyone on the site. This doesn’t happen until Oct but you can sign up now to get a link. Yes, they have stuff for sale, but you don’t have to buy anything. You can watch for free. I spent the last week watching as many videos as I could (they are usually only offered for free for 24 hours) regarding the dangers of 5g. I got some invaluable information, not just on its dangers and how to help combat it but also how to help fight to keep it out of your town. Anyhow, I am signing up for this and wanted to let others know. Again you don’t have to buy anything unless you want a permanent cd of it. http://bodyelectricsummit.com/?idev_id=11469

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 3, 2019 at 11:04 am Reply

      Here is a link to an international anti 5G appeal:


      • L September 3, 2019 at 11:35 am Reply

        That’s a GREAT site. I have it in my “files.” So much good information and links to studies. I use it when I write to public officials.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 3, 2019 at 11:44 am

          Might also be the most efficient petition,because it’s international,like the 5G network,and the health issue itself.

  3. L September 3, 2019 at 10:58 am Reply

    ooops, forgot to mention…the above link is for talks on The Body Electric Summit — Drs. Christine Schaffner and Dietrich Klinghardt : How to crack your energetic code
    + How to heal old trauma
    + How to leverage pulsed EMF and neurofeedback
    + Determine if you’re highly sensitive to energy
    + Measure the impact of cell phone frequencies
    + Discover how to use red light and photodynamic therapies
    + Understand biomagnetism, bioenergy and beyond

  4. Fred J Scott September 3, 2019 at 4:34 pm Reply

    For those who take CBD to sleep – how much did you have to take to nod off? I weight 195 – I think I need 20-30 mg – interested to see how much others have needed. Thanks in advance.

  5. sheila September 4, 2019 at 9:05 am Reply

    I have been checking and double checking my supplement after questions about it and L. I don’t see any green tea listed on this label, and all the vegetables used are organic, all the fruits used are organic, I have now asked the company and waiting for a response to some of the questions and remarks thrown out about it…….if you go to megafood dot com you can see how the products are made and read all about the ingredients….

    Thing is this is a site for suggestions from people who have had a product that worked for them even being floxed and that’s all I did – this works great for me I can’t do green tea due to the caffeine and this doesn’t have it listed……it’s gentle and has less folate than any other vitamin in the vegan or vegetarian products…….

    I am not telling anyone they have to use it…. I was asked what I used and this is it, I explained why I liked it and why I continue to use it that’s all……and once again no one should take anything without first researching it for themselves but that’s what the original question was for – to find out where to begin with so many options out there it took me days to finally make the decision to try this one and I did it with trepidation but now I am glad I did cause I feel a lot better and at least know I am getting organic products and vegan sources
    sometimes trying to be helpful can be a pain in the arse……..

    Fred they do have a Men’s Health one if you are interested I saw it on their website

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 9:37 am Reply

      Sheila,don’t blame L.;it was may who pointed you to the green tea extract. On their website,the page about Multi for Women 55+,it says:” crafted with a blend of vitamins, minerals and green tea leaf extract”.


      A producer can make a multisupp.,with organic greens in it (bio-organic would be better),ánd still add synthetic vitamines.That’s why it amazes me there’s no garantee to be found on their webpage that no synthetic substances were added.This doesn’t mean there are synthetic components in this multi,but without a garantee you can’t be sure.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 9:44 am Reply

      Oh,and Sheila,don’t be upset: I’m just an over-cautious guy,and indeed:what works for you might work as well for others. Still a bit concerned about that green tea leaf extract,to be honest.

      • Sheila rogers September 4, 2019 at 10:28 am Reply

        I haven’t seen anything about green tea where are you seeing that?? and L was concerned about the folate which I did look at my bottle and it’s 200 where the RDA is 400 still leaves room for food intake of folate, are you sure you’re looking at my product?? I am curious now cause I don’t see it, can you direct me 🙂

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 11:00 am

          Well,I just directed you to their website,and the page about your supplement.And I even quoted the excact line (copy-pasted directly from their webpage).It’s right at the start of the page,in de description of your supplement.I can’t find a complete ingredient list,but I still get a message of an error,lower on the page,so,part of the page is not vissible to me.Might be that there is the ingredient list,or,it’s where the list ought to be.

          Because this info is on their website,the green tea leaf extract should be mentioned on the package as well.Very strange,that you can’t find it,there.

          When the folate is in the L-5 MTHF form,this might be the right form for people with the gene mutation,like L. (methylated).

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:20 am

          sorry I must have missed that particular post or read over it, I will scroll back up and see if I can find that link again

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:23 am

          Ok that’s a different product it’s not the one I use and I see the green leaf extract listed on this one but mine is different, I’ll post it here for input thanks!

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 10:50 am

          When your product differs from the one on the original website of the producer,you might have a falcificated product in hand.

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:52 am

          yes that is worrisome I have contacted the megafood corp to ask them as they also said their product has green tea extract so I will hope it’s just a label typo or something I know amazon has issues with some supplements being knock offs I just never had it happen before…..thanks for pointing that out

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 10:53 am

          When your product differs from the product on the official website of the product maker,you might have a falcification on your hand.

    • L September 4, 2019 at 10:26 am Reply

      I wasn’t the one who mentioned green tea. I made the comment re folic acid instead of real folate.

      • Sheila rogers September 4, 2019 at 10:29 am Reply

        so my bottle says – folate (L-5 MTHF with broccoli) – does that identify anything ??? does the L5 Mthf mean acid?? I’m confused

        • L September 4, 2019 at 11:23 am

          That’s great! That’s what you want. The one I looked at on line said “from folic acid and broccoli” or something like that. But no that’s is exactly the form you want.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 11:29 am

          So,the Folate form is oké,but then,there’s still that tea extract. And they write that the supplement ingredients (and quatities?),for all target groups,differ.

        • L September 4, 2019 at 11:50 am

          well, I am with you about the green tea (if it’s there) but I still think a multi is a waste. You want to get most of your nutrients from food sources, and then just take supplements for those that you don’t get enough of, or that target specific conditions. I think by taking a multi you could be in danger of getting too much of something that you are already getting from diet. Just my opinion though. If someone thinks it helps them, then that’s what’s important

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 11:59 am

          L.,I totally agree.I only take Vit.K2,Magn.Bisglycinate,and in winter some extra vit. D3. I take Zinc,in periods of a few month, and breaks in between.Same for vit.B12 (spray).But lots of vegetables and fruit;I love both,but limit fruits because of the sugar.

        • L September 4, 2019 at 12:02 pm

          sounds like my regimen (my ND actually had me on 10,000 units of D initially…that’s how low I was and I am in sunny CA!) I also take an eye vitamin for the macular degeneration (thanks cipro!) and fish oil caps because of another genetic mutation… I also sometimes take supplements to help the mitochondria like ubiquinol and pqq

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:18 am

          I seem to have a weird issue with vitamins and supplements – if I take a specific supplement I get sick, it’s like that concentrated amount is just too much whereas mixed in with other stuff I can take it, it used to be the other way around, where multi’s made me so sick but now if I try for instance to take something as simple as calcium citrate I will be sick, if I take magnesium or even vitamin C alone without it being in a multi I get sick…..any clue as to why that is?? I find it to be a major pain cause I would like to target specific lacks but can’t

          I have osteoporosis and need to up my calcium but unable to do so with a supplement……so I have become addicted to ice cream and cheese which is horrible for my weight but I have trouble getting calcium I’m a mess……at least I am feeling some relief with the multi that may change as I get filled up with certain vitamins and minerals but my diet has been seriously crap for over 3 years now and I needed something…….but any help on this weird scenario is appreciated.

        • L September 5, 2019 at 10:24 am

          Not sure why that is happening. But I will tell you that too much calcium can be bad. So if you are getting calcium from your died you may not want it in a supplement. I too have osteoporosis (or at least osteopenia) likely from may years of drugs like asthma meds and antidepressants that can contribute to that. What you may not have enough of that is also crucial to bones are vitamin d and magnesium. Prior to floxing calcium was the only supplement I took. AFTER floxing it is about the only one I don’t take! https://www.healthline.com/health/hypercalcemia

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:44 am

          Do you have any suggestions on how to take either of those without getting sick to my stomach I’ve tried food that doesn’t help I have tried with the calcium taking low does throughout the day but it always triggers a massive bout of acid reflux so I am scared to take D & Mag knowing I have had issues with them too without some advice, any suggestions would be great, thanks

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 11:00 am

          When you’re low in stomach acid,already,and you take a calcium supplement,you will get acid reflux,for shure.As I wrote,before;osteoporoses is NOT caused by not eating enough calcium rich food,but by too low magnesium,K2 and D intake.A little more salt in your food might help producing more stomach acid,and lesser reflux.

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 11:12 am

          interesting info thanks!!

          And I just got off the phone with Megafoods I mean let’s just call them!! and there are 2 different women over 55 products and the one I ordered does not have green tea and we went over all the fine points of the label and determined it was truthfully THEIR product not an imposter thank god, and she said that anyone wanting to order any megafood vitamins from amazon their ONLY true distributer to amazon is NetRush anything else they have no control over and mine was ordered from NetRush thank god…….
          She also answered the synthetic question: she said they do not use any GMO ingredients as listed on the website and the way they do their ingredients is for instance the Vitamin A with beta carotene and carrot – is made by taking the beta carotene that was isolated and injecting it into the cell nucleus of the carrot and that’s all they do…..synthetic would mean a man made product meant to mimic an organic one and they don’t do that
          so I feel much better about the product now…….learn something new every day!!

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 12:05 pm

          Some questions answered,new questions arise.The “synthetic” question is not answered by: we don’t use GMO ingredients.

          ” the way they do their ingredients is for instance the Vitamin A with beta carotene and carrot – is made by taking the beta carotene that was isolated and injecting it into the cell nucleus of the carrot and that’s all they do” ???

          “synthetic would mean a man made product meant to mimic an organic one and they don’t do that” Did they garantee that they don’t use ANY synthetic ingredient,or did they just dance around the question? Like the “injecting Beta Carotene into the cell nucleaus” thing sound like commercial Abra Cadabra to me.Sorry,for me,being so skeptic; I’ve seen and read enough about the “million ways to fool the customer”,during the last 15+ years,to have grown into a “Master Skeptic” :-((

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 2:00 pm

          you sound as suspicious as I do normally, she was not in the least hesitant with her answers she wasn’t searching for a way to convince me in other words, she answered straight forward and described the process and I have seen this process in some of my researching years ago so I was familiar with her description and I asked directly that there were no man made ingredients and she said no it was all derived from plants

          if you can think of anything I need to ask directly I will and can call them back won’t hurt my feelings none to do so…….

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 2:12 pm

          “I asked directly that there were no man made ingredients and she said no it was all derived from plants”.

          That’s what I wanted to know,Sheila;a straight forward garantee that there are no synthetics in it.

          My questions where just for “Want to Know”;like L,I prefer getting as much as possible,my vit’s and minerals from my food.Only when I’m pretty sure I have a defficiency in some vit. or min. I use a supplement of the best quality I can find and pay.

          Thanks for answering my questions,and for your patience with me,being so skeptic.

        • Sheila rogers September 6, 2019 at 4:48 pm

          perfectly fine to be skeptic it keeps us safe and healthy!! and it was good to have them answered so even I feet good about my choice. My diet recently (3 years) has been crap due to too many family issues, moving twice and so forth to have any time to cook properly so it was the grab and run not burger joints but fast food nonetheless like subway and stuff where at least I could make better choices than burger food…..but the ability for me to get my nutrients in proper quantity that way was impossible, I knew I was low on probably everything as soon as I feel weirded out by this vitamin I will of course stop but right now it gives me energy I haven’t had and I sleep better at night for me that’s a win win…..

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 7, 2019 at 5:50 am

          Hi Sheila,I feel happy for you;every improvement is welcome.Please,keep us updated about everything you try,and how/if it works.What helps you,might help others as well.Have a nice weekend!

        • Sheila rogers September 8, 2019 at 12:28 pm

          well I can attest to the fact that grief doesn’t help, my brother’s wife collapsed and was unconscious for over a week on a ventilator no reason, but after tests turns out she has lung cancer with 20 tumors in her brain, she woke up was making such good headway they put her in a room of her own and started physical therapy then they did a biopsy of the one on her lung and within 3 days she was dead, fluid building up and draining was just getting worse. And just a few weeks before my cat of 21 years passed; and then of course we have the total idiocy of my family of 3 (mom, my brother and me) my mom and brother have always retreated to their own corners to grieve alone leaving me to stand alone needing to grieve WITH someone – and in that grieving alone I am now hurting all over, joints are aching and my head feels like it will explode……I’m so tired I just want to sleep all the time, it’s beginning to ease but my joints are getting worse, so I guess it’s a slow creep upwards again. Any suggestions for joint pain??? like a cream?? joints are popping like crazy again and cracking, then I have the deep aches in my hips……anything you can suggest is welcomed.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 8, 2019 at 1:55 pm

          Hi Sheila,I’m sad to hear that in your life,as well,medics play a negative role.Where we expect them to be there and help us to get better,oh,so often they just make things worse.I think that humanity might be better off without them,and I sometimes try to imagine how the science of natural remedies might have developed if not most of our money would have gone to “Modern,science based Medicine” (quackery,run by mad alchemists),but to traditional medicine,with herbs,etc.And now,those idiots are trying to gain patents on those traditional herbs,knowing that their chemical “cures” make more and more victims,and,thanks to the WWW,more and more people start to understand their criminal behaviour.Now they want to take the real medicines from us.

          I know about the joint noise;it made me feel like I was falling apart.Took a long time before those nasty sounds,sometimes accompanied by pains,slowly disappeared.Sometimes a little “crack”,mostly from my spine,but not the annoying sound,as if I was an old and rusty robot,in severe need of oil for my moving parts.Liters of it

          I just wrote Fred an answer to,more or less,the same subject;how to handle with those painfull and cracking joints.I think that magnesium (magn. “oil” ,magnesium bath/or magn. soaked towels,bandages etc.) may be the first to try.I often use (and used) my magnetic pulser but that is not everyone’s “peace of cake”.

          I had a dog and a cat (and yes:they were friends :-)) and both reached a respectable age.The dog,a german shepard died at 15 years old (10-12 is the normal age,and his doc was suprised that he got that old),and my cat died at 22 years old.I had adopted both because they had been with several other “owners” (how can you “own” another living being???),before,and I wanted to end their “being thrown around between owners”).

          Lossing your sister in law,and your beloved cat,in such a short period,is a logical reason for grief,but,indeed,it doesn’t help.Having a brother and a mom who don’t feel any need of sharing grief,not theirs,and not yours,doesn’t make things easier.I have experienced good friends,pushing me away in times I needed them most.Not willing to share the sad times of my life because it could spoil their pleasant life.

          A girlfriend (for over 20 years!) made use of my desperate situation by entering my house,with a longtime and criminal friend of her’s,and stealing a lot of personal,and irreplaceable things (among which the photo’s I made of friends,children I took care of for several years,and the photo’s I made of my favorite brother,a few weeks before he died of leukemia),while I was visiting a good friend and his wife,who invited me to recover a weekend at their place,after I had 2 very hefty heart arrythmia within 2 weeks and ended up being hurried to hospital in an ambulance.It’s in bad times,that you get to know who’s a friend,and who isn’t.

          Saying I’m disappointed in humanity is a gross understatement.I went from trusting everybody,untill proven not trustworthy,to “trust nobody,untill you’re pretty sure that person can be trusted”,and have a hard time in accepting this is the better,and,above all,safer way to live.Now I have to get used that the same goes for doctors (and politicians,but in those I had little trust,to begin with.

          Well,I’m lucky to know my way on the WWW,and finding websites like FloxieHope helped a lot.And my lifelong interest in natural ways of healing,and the power of herbs and other natural remedies (thanks to my love of nature) helped a lot,as well,as did my fascination of electricity,and the discovery of the marvelous work,Bob Beck did.Electric medicine,in my opinion,will have an important place in healing people,in the future.

          When you descide to give the interdermal magnesium a try,please let us know how it works for you.I really think this is one of the better ways to go,with joint problems.

        • Sheila rogers September 8, 2019 at 2:20 pm

          Hi, yes I feel the same way untrustworthy till proven trustworthy, not ideal but it’s what it is today…..I am very body aware and understand the connection between mind and body so I have actually tried a couple of “metaphysical” treatments if you will…..one is called Paradym (that’s how he spells it) it’s a machine that emits the sounds of the chakras designed by an engineer who studied what sounds would mimic the sounds of the chakras and shaped like the pyramid of Giza to concentrate the sounds and you wear headphones close your eyes and go into your own zen zone and I have felt such peace and relaxation after those sessions they last about 20 minutes and I love them……it releases so much sadness and grief both of which I have not only from my bodily limitations but from the emotional ones as well….I have also had a certified Buddhist practitioner work with me using something similar but he didn’t use any equipment it was just him chanting and using aromatherapy I felt safe and protected and was able to work through my body on my own and wow what a great feeling….. a lot of people don’t understand these things working but bio rhythm is a known “thing” and I that’s what working through the chakras does I need to get back to those I felt so much better while I had those sessions regularly and OMG could I sleep at night after those sessions such a peaceful relaxed sleep…….so that’s a positive something that works for me……

        • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 3:49 pm

          Henk – I am looking at a portable Ultrasound machine to help heal the joints / tendons. Probably more economical / convenient than going to PT every day. Any experience with this?

        • joanneb4 September 8, 2019 at 4:00 pm

          I used a shampoo that was called Green Matcha Tea and Apple Blossom. Now I’m frightened about the fluoride in green tea. What are your thoughts? I also took a lot of Epsom salt baths I’m worried about the fluoride and chlorine in the water. I’ve had to flush my eyes out with water several times from getting soap in them for 10 minutes here and there I’m also worried about the fluoride and chlorine in my eyes. What are your thoughts? I also used witch hazel with alcohol and am worried about liver damage. Any thoughts? I’ve drank water from water cooler at work too. I feel like my heart thyroid liver and bladder are messed up from all that. Took an NSAID intravenous in hospital ER Feb, took an aspirin last year, took ibuprofen when first floxed, had topical steroid on scalp, took meds with fluorine and drank water with fluoride used fluoride toothpaste. Had CT scans , x rays and many ultrasounds. Currently taking benzo to help anxiety. Do I have any hope?

          Jo Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 9, 2019 at 2:30 am

          Jo Anne,how did you survive all this? (just kidding ;-).

          Well,I think that most of those things have probably done no real harm to you,although it’s wise to (try to ) avoid everything containing fluoride (use fluoride free toothpaste,and only drink fluoride free drinking water,if possible). Don’t worry about the tiny amount of chlorine in drinking water; it can be vaporated out of the water by heating it.And taking ONE Aspirin is not a medical disaster :-))

          Water in a water cooler can get contaminated,and can,just like tapwater that’s in the fridge for too long,upset your intestines.Might be wise to look for a better water source (low mineral springwater from a good source,bottled in glass is a good choice)

          NSAID’s like Ibuprofen are known to be risky,especially for people with heart problems. That’s why I stick to Paracetamol,exclusively. It doesn’t take away all the pain but lowering the pain level is,most of the time,enough for me.Even of Paracetamole I take the lowest dose I need,and only the max dose (2 x 500mg) before going to bed.During the day,distraction helps,as well.

          Witch Hazel is sold both in alcohol,and in water (alcohol-free).The one,based on alcohol is,in fact,not at all healthy for your skin because the alcohol will make your skin dry out.Use it only topical;ingested,Witch Haze is potentially toxic because the high tannin level.Small tannin quantities,like in red wine,and dark chocolat don’t hurt you,but high quantities,like in that WH water or alcohol probably will,so,DON’T drink that stuff.Not even a little bit. But I doubt that,when using it topical,the amount that might pass the skin will hurt you.

          Benzo’s are bad! You might better look for something else,like CBD oil,Magnesium oil/bath/supplements etc. And,reading your message,I get the impression that those Benzo’s don’t realy work (you sound really over-worried).Benzo’s just sedate your mind,but don’t change the way you think (and that’s probably one of the causes of your anxiety).

          STOP thinking that everything you put in your mouth,or on your skin,is probably poisoning you;IT ISN’T! Most of the things you mentioned won’t,and didn’t harm you,at least,not in a way you should worry about.You could be a bit more critical,in the future,about what to consume,or to put on your skin,and quiting those Benzo’s seems like a good idea to me,but,most of all:STOP WORRYING; thát won’t help! Try to find a healthy balance between living in a sensible way and enjoying life,without all those ineffective worries.

          One thing that might be important for you:if possible,let your intercellar magnesium levels be checked.Anxiety and panic attacks are a possible (for Floxies:probable) symptom of magnesium deficiency.You might be low in vit B,as well.Bot are quite safe to supplement,if not overdone (but:don’t worry ;-)).And some cognitive therapee,to learn how to handle those extreme worries,might help.

        • joanneb4 September 10, 2019 at 6:06 pm


          I am worried about the witch hazel with grain alcohol because I put some on a cotton ball on my forehead but it also spilled all over my hands and I inhaled so much of it. I didn’t rinse it off my forehead and it hurt so bad I used ice cubes all over my face to rub it off and I think it made it worse and inhaled it more and got on lips and made lips swollen so maybe I ingested some of it. I’m worried it damaged my liver and kidneys. It made me super sun sensitive and I’m so dry and itchy now all over. A nurse told me to soak in a bath of baking soda and that made it worse. I feel like my kidneys and liver and thyroid are shot. I can’t digest foods, I am so bloated since all this think I have bacteria overgrowth my mouth and tongue burn and tingle. I have seborrheic dermatitis on scalp. Tried prescription Ketoconazole had a bad reaction. Then head and shoulders. My scalp itches so much and I’m not sure if it’s allergic dermatitis or yeast. I’m always thirsty and dry and tongue dry. I do take reverse osmosis water with calcium added to raise pH with me to work but it’s in stainless steel water bottles with BPA plastic. I think the plastic is bothering me and too much calcium from water with no other minerals. I am low in D and B12. I’m on 2 mg klonopin a day. I don’t know how to get off and not have massive panic attacks every minute. I want off them for sure. I don’t know what soap, shampoo, dish soap, hand soap to use. Not sure if allergic to coconut oil. I’m not sure what to eat either. Any help please. I drink water all day and think it feeds methane bacteria. I have streptococcus overgrowth in vagina. Think it isn’t just there. I tried wearing mascara washed with dove soap got it all in my eyes didn’t rinse with enough water massive eye pain and pressure and blurry vision.

          Jo Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 11, 2019 at 12:38 pm

          My Gooooood!!! Jo Anne,did you have co-writers on this one ?

          I had a hard time,believing all the things you wrote in your last message,two days ago, and than you come up with this one!

          I really don’t know how to answer on all this,don’t even know how to believe all you wrote,this time. Believe me;a professional troll would have a hard time,improving on this message,if he was attempting to confuse people.

          When this is a serious,and true question for help, then you’re the most chaotic person I ever met,and I really don’t feel able to help you,in any way.I’d like to know what others,here,think about the things you write,and I’m waiting for them to react.Sorry.

        • Sheila rogers September 11, 2019 at 2:12 pm

          wow, this sounds horrible…..I don’t mean to be disrespectful JoAnne but you do mention panic attacks, I honestly believe that you are terrified of everything you touch and are having panic attacks because of the stress of the worry from “what if’s” you need to find a doctor that can truly help you with your panic over normal everyday issues…….this is unhealthy to be this worried about things……. witch hazel if used straight will burn like a son of a gun, but it will go away.…..even if you ingested a tiny tiny bit from licking your lips after washing it off your face with ice it’s not going to be enough to kill your liver and kidneys that is over reacting plain and simple, also witch hazel is extremely drying so yes you will have dry itchy skin – use moisturizer of some sort, if you are terrified by that thought use olive oil to moisturize your skin, anytime you get soap in your eyes it will burn and you will have blurry vision for a short time as your eyes clear out the residual that you missed, the fact that you can wear mascara shows your eyes are doing ok that would be the first thing that would be a problem, I use dawn dish detergent it’s so safe and gentle they use it to remove oil off of birds feathers when there is a oil spill in ocean waters, it should be harmless to you ……if this is a true post of true symptoms and worries you need to find a doctor now…..stress can cause dry mouth and too many medications can cause yeast overgrowth but a doctor can determine that too…..have your throat and mouth looked at it seems like you would benefit from an ear, nose and throat doctor as well as a mental professional to deal with the panic attacks and anxiety….this level of anxiety over small physical issues is not normal…….and you can ask your general physician to get you off the klonopin and to check your scalp – you are trying to self diagnose every little ache and pain you get and that’s throwing you into severe anxiety and panic attacks – get a new general physician if you don’t like the one you have, and set up an appointment with an ear, nose, throat and a mental professional equipped to handle panic attacks and anxiety at it’s extreme…….worried if basic water is a problem is extreme…….if you fear BPH or BPA in plastic ditch the plastic that’s an easy answer get a glass bottle or stainless steel thermos these are not hard questions to answer but you have got to calm down

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 11, 2019 at 3:13 pm

          Stainless steel bottles don’t have a plastic layer inside,of BPA or any other material,because there’s absolutely no need for it. In fact;it is the absence of such a layer that makes people choose for a stainless steel bottle like the Klean Kanteen,or the many other trademarks of today.

        • Sheila rogers September 11, 2019 at 4:29 pm

          that’s why I said get a stainless steel thermos, I think she’s worried about the water in a large water bottle thing maybe at work? that she refills her own personal bottles……

        • joanneb4 September 11, 2019 at 6:07 pm

          I wish I was making all this up. I think it is because I did everything wrong after Cipro. Took meds with fluorine, used fluoride toothpaste, took antibiotics, went on and off benzos, had CT scans, ultrasounds with all the gel, X rays, used salicylic acid bar soap and in hand soap and shampoos, took aspirin once, was given NSAID in IV in ER, had steroids in eye drops once, had steroid injected in leg for nerve biopsy, had lidocaine in mouth for endoscopy and mouth rinse and in eyes, had anaesthesia. Used antibacterial soap today, drank out of plastic water cooler jugs and bottles with plastic lids. This has consumed my life so much I can barely function and think. I dont wear mascara I just tried it after 9 months since my eye dr told me to clean my eyes with Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo which killed my eyes and make them so dry. I feel I’m full of fluorine, I’ve eaten bromated flour, bathed in water with chlorine. Feel like my thyroid is shot. I drank water left in water cooler reservoir from June to September in hot sun laden room now have yeast and bacteria overgrowth can barley eat. Chemicals on scalp have left welts so painful can’t lay down on pillow to sleep. It’s a living nightmare. Nothing helps. I’ve been inpatient, partial hospitalization, hospitalized all for mental illness but no one addresses the medical. Doctors have dropped me saying it’s all anxiety but my health problems GIVE me anxiety.

          Jo Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 2:13 am

          Sheila,she actually has,and uses a stainless steel bottle (“I do take reverse osmosis water with calcium added to raise pH with me to work but it’s in stainless steel water bottles with BPA plastic. I think the plastic is bothering me”).

          Buying stainless steel botlles, and nót knowing there’s no BPA in it? While people choose for stainless steel bottles BECAUSE there’s no BPA in it?

          In her next mail she worries about bottles (glass or Stainless steel ?) with plastic lids.Manifacturers like Klean Kanteen don’t use BPA containing plastics in the lids;KK even has several options for BPA free lids.

          “Used antibacterial soap today”?”‘So,why did she use it,knowing that she would be worried,afterwards??? “Took an aspirin last year”.?? “Not sure if allergic to coconut oil.” (I’ve never heard of a coconut allery).

          I drank water left in water cooler reservoir from June to September in hot sun laden room now have yeast and bacteria overgrowth can barley eat.” ?? Drinking such water is plain stupid,but can it give you a yeast and bacteria overgrowth? Don’t think so.”

          Most things seem so far-fetched.What you wrote about the soap is right;I have very sensitive eyes and once even tried baby shampoo,but that,too,burned in my eyes.Very annoying,but after 5-10 minutes the burning feeling is gone,and when there’s ome blurry vision left,this is gona after 1/2-1 hour.But she brings it as if it gave her permanent eye damage.What’s going on,here?

          Only thing I can think of is,that she has a severe magnesium- and/or vit.B defficiency.Magnesium defficiency can cause unrealistic fears (not based on real facts),and panic attacks.nd those fears and panic attacks use a lot of magnesium;it’s a circle,making things worse,in time,untill you break the circle by supplementing magnesium,which I advised her.She has not reacted on that advice,untill now;just a new list of the same.

          “Doctors have dropped me saying it’s all anxiety but my health problems GIVE me anxiety.” Yes,and anxiety,although,most of it based on irrational fears,gives health problems.The circle I mentioned.

          Well,I cann’t help her,and even have problems believing all this.It is too strange,and too much,and,most of it,só far-fetched,and it also suprises me that she does illogical things like buying the SSteel bottles,and then starts worrying about the BPA;why did she buy those expensive ( and BPA-free) bottles,in the first place?

          I did what I could do,to help her: advising Magnesium and B-complex supplementation,and looking for some Cognitive Therapee,to learn how to handle those negative thoughts and irrational fears.

        • joanneb4 September 12, 2019 at 3:50 am

          I use BPA free stainless hydroflasks with reverse osmosis water that has calcium added. Have you guys used antibacterial soaps? I had to use it I went bathroom #2 and then ate lunch had no other soap available. Now hands and feet all swollen. I’ve used soaps before at Wegmans and grocery stores. I believe they are causing me harm but if I have to go I hav to go I don’t know what to do. Is this real damage you think like Cipro. I feel refloxed. I used a prescription antifungal Ketoconazole shampoo for seborrheic dermatitis and got worse too. This is not made up. I wish is was. I feel wrecked with nerve damage and brain damage. My skin is all defatted and I don’t know how to get better. I’m afraid of everything, I tried magnesium it makes me worse.

          Jo Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 8:42 am

          Hi Jo Anne,

          why do you think that the BPA in your stainless steel bottle (“it’s in stainless steel water bottles with BPA plastic.I think the plastic is bothering me.”) bothers you? And now you write that these bottles are “BPA free stainless hydroflasks”.

          Which magnesium did you use,and what are the symptoms that make you think it worsened you? I’m pretty sure that (magnesium) it is one thing you really need,and there are quite a few magnesium supplements (Citrate,Chloride,Sulfate),and besides taking an oral mag.supplement you may use magn.oil,or take a magn.bath,using mag.flakes;two ways of supplementing magnesium orally.This method is very usefull for people with sensitive intestines,and for people who have to treat a large defficiency.

          In fact;I think that finding,and using would make a world of difference for you,physically and mentally.A good reason to give this another try,don’t you think?

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 8:44 am

          Sorry:”two ways of supplementing magnesium orally” must be “two ways of supplementing magnesium interdermal (through the skin)”.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 8:49 am

          Sorry:”Two ways to use magnesium orally” must be” Two ways to use magnesium interdermal”

        • L September 12, 2019 at 9:38 am

          Actually, (don’t ask me why) some stainless bottles have a plastic liner. I know, it’s stupid. I picked one up and luckily unscrewed the cap and looked inside before I bought it. But like you, I have a hard time believing all this. I hate to say that because I know what we all go through. But…..

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 12, 2019 at 9:54 am

          That’s absurd,indeed;an inner lining,made of plastic,while people choosed for stainless steel bottles,mainly, to get rid of plastic. I didn’t know because,when I did some research on these bottles,the one I liked was a Klean Kanteen,and I found it way too expensive.At that time there wasn’t much choice,at least,not on the dutch market.

          Doesn’t matter,because now she writes that her’s are BPA free,what makes me wonder why she wrote those contained BPA and that bothered her.

          I,too,feel frustrated because on one side,het story is so unreal that it’s hard to believe,but on the other side,if true,she needs help,although I don’t think we are the right persons to help her;she’s so messed up,and even professionals would have a hard time,helping her in a sensible way.I hope she’ll manage to “get back on the road,again”.

          One thing is shure:this is not your average floxed story!

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 11:47 am

          ok got the bottle the difference is the ONE DAILY is not the same as the one you and L were looking at same company different supplement – here’s my label:

          MegaFood Fresh From Farm to Tablet
          Women Over 55 ONE Daily
          Supports Optimal Health & Well Being

          Vit A (beta carotene with carrot) 450mcg
          Vit C (ascorbic acid with orange) 90 mg
          Vit D3 (cholecalciferol w/S. cerevisiae) 40 mcg
          Vit E (d-alpha tocopherol [sunflower] w/organic brown rice) 12 mg
          Vit K (K1) (phytonadione w/cabbage) 80 mcg
          Thiamin (B1) (thiamine HCI w/S. cerevisiae) 1.2 mg
          Riboflavin (B2) (with organic brown rice) 1.3mg
          Niacin (niacinamide w/S. cerevisiae) 16mg
          Vit B6 (pyridoxine HCI w/S. cerevisiae) 3 mg
          Folate (L-5-MTHF w/broccoli) 200 mcg (120 mcgL5-MTHF)
          Vit B12 (methylcobalamin w/S. cerevisiae 4.8 mcg
          Biotin (with organic brown rice) 55 mcg
          Pantothenic Acid (d-calcium pantothenate w/organic brown rice) 5 mg
          iodine (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 80 mcg
          zinc (rice amino acid chelate) 9.5 mg
          selenium (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 55 mcg
          Manganese (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 2.3 mg
          Chromium (GTF) (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 40 mcg
          Molybdenum (mineral bound S. cerevisiae) 45 mcg

          Fruit Phenolic Blend (organic whole orange, organic cranberry, organic blueberry) 100 mg

          non GMO Project certified
          Glyphosate residue free
          Tested for 125+ Pesticides and Herbicides
          Certified Gluten Free
          Certified Kosher
          Dairy and Soy Free
          Certified B Corporation

          Both Women Over 55 One Daily and Multi for Women 55+ were formulated to provide post-menopausal foundational support, though they differ in how they do that. We’ve highlighted the differences below:

          Multi for Women 55+
          This is a two tablet per day serving.
          Includes the active or methylated, forms of several of the B vitamins, including B12, folate, riboflavin-5-phosphate, & B6.
          This is an herb-free formula.
          This formula does include choline, a B vitamin choline for healthy memory and cognitive function and a green tea leaf extract.
          This multi will have a higher potency of vitamins and minerals than the one daily. Vitamin K has been excluded for those who need an option for that.

          Women’s Over 55 One Daily
          This is a one tablet per day serving.
          Includes the active, or methylated, forms of several of the B vitamins, including B12, folate, and B6.
          This is an herb-free formula.
          It does not include choline or the green tea leaf extract.
          There is vitamin K in this formula.

          And that is how I made my choice for this one “One Daily”…….I didn’t want the green tea or herbs

        • L September 5, 2019 at 11:19 am

          well you definitely need the mag. we all do. the flqs leech it from the body and it is so necessary for all functions. I would just try different kinds and try to get one without additives which you may be reacting to. I would try l-threonate, orotate or taurate forms. Or do foot soaks with epsom salt. Some swear by magnesium oil spray, although it did nothing for me. As for D I would just again try a reputable one without additives. Are you sure it is the actual vitamin you are reacting to? sometimes we get side effects returning and never really know what caused them. I was so messed up head to toe, but never reacted to any of my supplements, so not sure what to tell you

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 11:53 am

          Thank you I will look into those any brand that you know of that is the most unadulterated of those?

        • L September 5, 2019 at 12:39 pm

          well I generally buy brands I am familiar with. Then check the ingredients. But I don’t seem to have an issue with additives as far as I can tell. Take a brand like Jarrow…it has a good reputation, but still may use say magnesium stearate or something else added. Just read labels. I buy mostly from Vitacost. The prices are SO much cheaper than the stores…don’t have to worry about fake products like on amazon, and shipping is free for $49 and over. Great selection too

        • L September 5, 2019 at 3:45 pm

          well, the ingredients seem ok, but I think the amounts are odd. Like I would much prefer far more vitamin C and way more magnesium and less A. The danger here is getting too much of something if you are already getting it in your diet. To each his own, but I prefer to stay away from a multi and just supplement with what I know I may not be getting enough of . (Supposed to be a reputable line though.)

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 4:54 pm

          I agree – the ingredients seem unbalanced. Need to think about my approach to this a bit more.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 10:46 am

          Sheila,years ago there was an article (I think,it was on the Mercola website) about a research among a very high number (10.000,or even more) of nurses,and their risk for osteoporosis,and guess what: the ones with the HIGHEST risk for osteoporosis were the ones with the HIGHEST consumption of milk products! Not a too small intake of calcium is the cause,but the too small intake of magnesium,Vit.K2 and vit.D,which you need to bring the calcium to where it is needed:in the bones.

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:50 am

          yes milk and dairy products cause acid in the body that is remediated by the body using calcium stores to remedy it – that catch 22 problem, damned if you do and damned if you don’t…….meat leaches calcium from the bones at an even higher rate than dairy as do some other food choices so I am just stuck……. no matter what I do it’s got some negative connotation or side effect…..but I’d rather eat ice cream than meat 🙂 so I don’t know what to do – stuck between a rock and a hard hard place

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:12 am

          My bottle says nothing about green tea nothing. So I think you and L have somehow seen a label that is not my product I wish we could post pics I would post the label next trip to the kitchen I’ll grab my bottle and post all the ingredients and then tell me if you see green tea somewhere that I am missing

        • Sheila rogers September 5, 2019 at 10:09 am

          yayaya thank you!! always good to know I made a good choice without really knowing what that was 🙂
          Makes me feel a bit better I don’t know what online labels you and henk were seeing that was so different from the product I have…. kinda weird but thank you for clarifying this one for me…..

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 5, 2019 at 10:37 am

          Sheila,the link I placed,and the quote (direct copy from their website) should be the same as what’s on the ingredient list. On Amazon I saw complaints about this product,bought from another reseller,where the pills were of a different colour.There might be falsified copies of this product in the market;something is definitaly wrong when the ingredient list on your product differs from the ingrediets,mentioned on their official website.Something is definitely smelling fishy,here,and it’s not the Omega 3 oil ;-))

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 4, 2019 at 11:02 am Reply

        Sheila writes that the Folate in that supplement is in the L-5 MTHF form. Do I remember well;is this the right form for people with that gene mutation?

  6. Lukasz September 4, 2019 at 11:00 am Reply

    Can anyone recommend a good acupuncturist in Toronto? Preferably one that has treated people with pharmaceutical toxicity?

  7. Fred S September 4, 2019 at 3:42 pm Reply

    I am set to see a ND tomorrow who has 15 years of experience with this specific issue. One quick question for those who have done this before – should I expect him to lay our a detailed plan (supplements, diet, IVs and other treatments)? Not exactly sure what to expect. Appreciate any input you may have. I have never been to a ND before – new terrain for me. Thanks in advance

    • L September 4, 2019 at 4:03 pm Reply

      When I first went to mine, it was also the first time I had seen an ND. I was such a mess mentally and physically I really can’t recall much except him being the FIRST (after 13 MDs) to say “you’re going to be ok. I’m going to help you.” He started me on a Myers (lots of magnesium, b vitamins, selenium, zinc, postassium, vitamin C) , until my test for vitamin C came back. At some point he did go over his “protocol” of different IVs; he started to heal my gut with supplements and enzymes: he told me what to eat…although at that point I had dropped 1/4 of my body weight so it was mainly trying to get calories in me, so he had me add two tablespoons of coconut oil and some almond butter to my smoothies which was the only thing I could take in because of breathing issues. He put me on an iodine supplement and had tests run for my thryroid and a couple other things.

      I was unable to drive at that point and needed help walking, so someone drove me and she asked a lot of questions and wrote down his answers for me. He also added alpha lipoic acid and a probiotic. He told me I should come in twice a week (at one point I was actually going in three times a week for IVs) And he told me which IVs he wanted me to get. For the very first visit I was really such a mess…the walking dead…I don’t think he wanted to overwhelm me.

      • Fred S September 4, 2019 at 4:14 pm Reply

        Thanks, L. Can the Myers be done without a test or do I need to do a test first? What type of tests will he have me take? The reason I ask is that I have a bunch of blood work recently done for everything under the sun as my conventional doctor tried to find the reason for my recent symptoms (of course ignoring the fact that I finished taking Cipro 3 weeks ago and saying that has nothing to do with it).

        • L September 4, 2019 at 4:31 pm

          No test necessary because the amount of Vitamin is much lower than if you did a straight C IV. It also is great because it (Myers) contains so much of what floxies are really needing. The only IV requiring a blood test (that I am aware of ) is the C. It is the G6PD. He may suggest ozone therapy as well as IVs if he offers that. Let us know how it goes (and by the way MANY tests that MDs do come back negative because as Dr Todd Plumb (also floxed) notes, the damage is functional, not structural….

        • Fred S September 4, 2019 at 4:35 pm

          Thank you, L. Very, very helpful. Will let you know how it goes.

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 11:14 am

          Interesting session with the ND – he definitely seems to understand and believe the foxing issue. He basically said recovery is a function of age (younger people recover faster from this) and how quickly you address it. He looked at my bloodwork and supplements and thought the were ok. He suggested an IV (modified Myers) – I asked him to send me the details of the “cocktail” which he will do. Also, mentioned diet needs to be low inflammation (Mediterranean) which will help blood flow to the joints. The thing that bothered me is that he was not the take charge kind of doctor. I expected a clear plan with certain supplements and foods – I felt he talked in generalities with no clear treatment plan. Am I expecting too much or should I move on? My overall condition has improved in the 3 weeks post floxing. I am left with mostly the joint pain (which come and goes and limits exercise), the sleep issue (which seems to be bit better with 20 mg of cbd) and dry eyes/mouth. I am able to work. Maybe he thinks it is not a serious enough issue to warrant more aggressive approaches – not sure. Would appreciate any thoughts on what level of engagement I should expect.

        • L September 5, 2019 at 11:26 am

          well I do like that he suggested Myers, although not sure what a “modified” myers would be. My advise would be go with your gut. Or perhaps do the IV and see if you can get more info out of him. Did he say anything about gut issues? I mean the Mediterranean diet is fine, but most of us have damaged microbiome and need probiotics and perhaps digestive enzymes.

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 11:50 am

          He did not mention gut issues – he seemed ok with the 50B probiotic I was taking. I will give the IV a try (once he tells me the price and what is in it). Overall it was a bit disappointing – I expected more engagement.

        • L September 5, 2019 at 12:36 pm

          yeah, that’s too bad. But when I went to first see mine I was damaged head to toe. I could barely see, barely breathe, barely walk…only 100 lbs (from 138) in pain, and just struggling to live—so he had a LOT to work with! You may be right that this ND just thinks your damage is not too bad. Maybe worth a second try though

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 2:59 pm

          L – this is what he told me. What do you think?

          “The contents of the initial customized blend IV will be B comp, Glutathione, Mg and Vitamin C . I do not release specific protocols as they are proprietary to my institute. Cost of a non bundled IV will be $250.00 each. As the protocol continues I increase some doses and remove others that I have found to be helpful for patients in the last 15 years for Floxed patients.
          If in the event as I stated you commit to 6 or more I can lower that price down to $225.00 each. The wholesale pharmacy vendor lowers the price and I forward that price to you. “

        • L September 5, 2019 at 4:02 pm

          well I would start off by saying that while I think glutathione helped me a lot (I got a “push”…like an injection full of it with every IV except h2o2. So basically I got about 80 of them…there have been some on this site that said they had a bad reaction to glutathione. It is not typically found in a myers. This is what is usually in a myers: Magnesium chloride hexahydrate 20% (magnesium)Calcium gluconate 10% (calcium)Hydroxocobalamin 1,000 mcg/mL (B12)Pyridoxine hydrochloride 100 mg/mL (B6)Dexpanthenol 250 mg/mL (B5)B complex 100 (B complex)Vitamin C 2 …there may be some variations on that.

          The price seems high. MY MD internist does IVs and his were always higher than my ND, and even his Myers is $105 (50 minutes.) Granted prices vary across the country, but that seems steep for a myers. What city are you in again?

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 4:51 pm

          Thanks. L. I am not sold on the Glutathione. I mentioned this to him and he said he starts low and slowly moves up to be safe. I will ask him a few questions I agree that $250 seems high. I am in the Philadelphia area where prices are generally not crazy compared to NY or LA. Is this something I can shop around on? Not sure how transparent they will be. Maybe I can call a few NDs and get their prices.

        • L September 5, 2019 at 5:01 pm

          yeah, I just did a quick search and there are a lot of clinics offering IVs. I would call around …maybe 3 or 4 and see if your doctor is in the ballpark

        • Fred S September 5, 2019 at 5:23 pm

          Thanks, L. I searched on “IV therapy” and few names came up. Will make a few calls.

        • Fred S September 6, 2019 at 3:54 pm

          Well – I decided to look for another ND and spoke with her on the phone. Seemed to immediately get it and has treated similar issues before. She asked me about my symptoms and after hearing the list she was convinced it was FQ related and mentioned she has seen an uptick in these cases. I honestly felt she (Dr. Staid) cared and wanted the opportunity to make me healthy. The ND I saw yesterday was very impersonal, a bit condescending. I felt like a number. Will give her a try next week. Here is her link – please let me know your thoughts, https://www.fullspectrumim.com/

        • L September 6, 2019 at 9:10 pm

          Yes! Looks great. And Dr Staid is also an internist. If you look online you will also find great reviews of her from rate mds and vitals. Looks like a good choice. An MD who switches to integrative medicine “gets it.” Let us know how it goes…

        • Fred S September 7, 2019 at 5:01 am

          Thanks, L. That is how I felt. Her “can do” attitude and enthusiasm to help me was reassuring. I mentioned the apathy / denial I have received from the conventional medical community and she understood it having been part of it at one point. She readily admits that many are uninformed or lazy (or both) and just want write a prescription or ask for a test and move you along. This was part of her motivation to practice functional medicine. Will let you know how it goes.

  8. 63chevyii September 5, 2019 at 5:46 pm Reply

    I’ve spent a bunch of time thinking about what’s happened to me health-wise since being floxed.

    Exhaustion, body aches and joint pain
    Torn labrum (right shoulder).
    Marked increase in anxiety levels
    Increase with tinnitus and hearing issues
    Extreme DOMS post exercise
    Torn bicep tendon
    Nerve pain on face (mild tingling or burning sensation)
    IBS-like symptoms
    Right knee pain making it difficult to walk at times, occasional left achilles tendon pain
    Random “buzzing” or vibration sensation in quads.

    The scary thing is things are getting worse still …

    More details are posted here, under my week 13 update:

    • L September 5, 2019 at 6:28 pm Reply

      yeah, sadly things get worse before they get better. Among my dozens of side effects I had knee pain, that eventually resulted in torn meniscus in both knees. (prolozone injections to the rescue!!!) I had everything you listed and more. My gut was so destroyed I lost 1/4 of my body weight and it took two years to get it back. I went through a LOT of probiotics, dgl licorice, HCL betaine, digestive enzymes….but pretty back to normal now.

      but the main reason I wanted to respond was a comment I noticed on your blog to the effect of “how to explain this all to the doctor” Not sure if you have already gone, but every time I see a new doctor (even now at 4 1/2 years out) I always take the top two “dear doctor” letters (plumb and de jong) listed here. They give a good, more medical/scientific explanation of what has happened. https://floxiehope.com/tag/dear-doctor-letter/

      • 63chevyii September 5, 2019 at 6:49 pm Reply

        Thanks so much L … those letters are great!

        • L September 5, 2019 at 7:46 pm

          You’re welcome. (Thank Lisa for posting them) I like that they speak in doctor-eze and it give more credibility since so many docs just don’t believe us (I avoid those kind these days)

    • Fred S September 6, 2019 at 4:41 am Reply

      I am in the same boat. I have been cycling for 30 years with no tendon issues and after taking Cipro 3 weeks ago I could not cycle more than 15 minutes due to tendon pain in my ankles. It is very odd in that the joint pain comes in waves at times – I felt it in my feet and ankles for a while and it went away. Yesterday I felt it in my wrists and arms and seems to have gone away today to some degree. I am pretty much limited to walking and swimming since I am scared to do more. I actually feel lucky I can do that based on what I have seen. I am attacking it with nutrition (to minimize inflammation) and going slow until the tendons go through a rebuild cycle which takes many, many months (maybe a year). I think stressing tendons with weights and other activity is dangerous at this point. My insomnia has improved with CBD oil – I am taking 20 mg and it knocks me out at night and I am sleeping better. I hope to ween myself off this in a few months. Also, there is a doctor in LA I have read about that specializes in this area (https://www.regenerativemedicinela.com/) which I am thinking about. It is expensive and you have commit to a 10 day stay in LA. I have talked to them and they are very, very familiar with this issue (the doctor went though this himself).

      • L September 6, 2019 at 9:25 am Reply

        You are very wise to take it slow as far as tendons and exercise. As for the LA place I have actually spoken to Dr Ghalili on the phone. I talked to him very early on in switching his practice to regenerative healing. I will say he seems genuinely concerned, and he is not one of these places just out to make a buck. On the plus side, he really did help heal himself after a floxing. However, in my opinion, he was not severely damaged body-wide. I think he probably does have a good understanding in how to help heal somewhere with mobility or join-type issues (meniscus, tendon, etc) I am not so sure he is (perhaps he is now) aware of the extreme damage it can do to systems, organs, the brain, etc.) I am aware of one person who was floxed who went to see him and had a bit of recovery; then went back a second time and now is able to walk normally and without pain, whereas before he could not. So it was a definite success for him. Not sure his stay was that long, at least the first time. He does literally credit Dr G with getting him back on his feet. So if those are the types of issues you are talking about, It sounds like it is worth it.

  9. Fred S September 7, 2019 at 6:25 am Reply

    General question – does anyone use or had success with Collagen to improve tendons, skin, nails? If so, what type do you use? Thanks in advance

  10. Fred S September 8, 2019 at 6:07 am Reply

    Wanted to thank everyone for the CBD suggestion for sleep – it really did work. Not quite back to pre-poisoning levels but almost 9 hours of sleep with some interruption. Makes a big difference!

    • Don M September 8, 2019 at 7:58 am Reply

      Yes ……CBD does have many benefits. The problem with it is getting the right dose. Over dosing (though said to be not harmful) is just wasting your money. All the products on the market seem to indicate the number of mg in the bottle. One must find a chart to see how many mg are in one dropper. Then through a bit of trial and error one must find the right amount that works for you. Last is cost. It is a very expensive potion for the amount one gets. If it works it may be worth the cost. One online seller that has incentive programs to help with the cost is: https://www.thecbdistillery.com/ They also list the number of mg of CBD oil in each dropper right on the label of the bottle. The CBDistillery also has a lot of information available on it’s web site.

      • Don M September 8, 2019 at 8:07 am Reply

        CBD dosing information and ideas from the CBDistellary web site. https://www.thecbdistillery.com/microdosing-cbd/

      • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 8:10 am Reply

        Thanks again, Don. I have been using local sources for now to see if it works. I already placed an order at CBD Distillery – like the prices and shipping is free if over $100. I seem to have honed in on 20 mg / CBD at bedtime only but will try to ween myself off of it over a few months. How are you using it? Do you use throughout the day with a kicker at night?

        • Don M September 11, 2019 at 8:23 am

          I was using a CBD oil from a California supplier but it was “very” expensive. When I found the CBDistillery I fund that I could cut from 30 to 50% off the cost. I have chosen to use CBDistillery’s CBD oil 1000. The bottle says that each dropper full contains 33 mg of CBD oil. Other than the help with anxiety it seems that I must take quite a bit of the stuff to be getting other results. I am now trying to follow their recommendations of regular daily use to build up the stuff in my system. I am using one dropper (33 mg) in the morning and another dropper (33 mg) at bed time. It does seem to be helping with my insomnia problem a little. Guess we hill have to wait and see over the long haul just how much benefit I am getting for my buck. Their recommendations are from 5 to 60 mg daily. I have read that in some testing up to 600 mg has been used. If that is the case the 5 to 60 mg seems to be a very safe daily dose.

  11. Fred S September 8, 2019 at 7:03 am Reply

    Any thoughts on this to treat tendon pain ? My wife brought some back from China recently. It seems it is used in Europe. Not sure if topical usage would cause a bad reaction. Thanks https://www.parafarmacia-online.com/en/flogoprofen-50-mg-g-gel-topico-100-g.

    • L September 8, 2019 at 8:55 am Reply

      It’s an NSAID. I would not use it personally.

      • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 9:07 am Reply

        Thanks, L. Any topicals that work for you? Mag oil seems to help a bit.

        • L September 8, 2019 at 9:12 am

          Not really. I have had limited success with arnica cream, depending on the issue. There are supposed to be CBD creams that help but I tried a couple and they did nothing for me. In all fairness though, I really didn’t know what to look for in that regard. Certain light therapies (eg red light therapy) are also supposed to help, but I cannot tell you about any of the little home machines that are available. Your ND/ integrative MD might be able to shed some light on that. (no pun intended)

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 8, 2019 at 10:00 am Reply

        All NSAID’s are dangerous for the heart.I only use Paracetamol,and a magnetic pulser.You can easilly build one,yourself;just need an old electronic flash with some power and a copper coil like the Visaton 5032.And an electric cable to connect both. How to make one is well described at:


        After having had much help from this homebuild device,I eventually bought the professionally build one from Sota (endorsed by Bob Beck).I’d build a Blood Purifier as well(info on the Beck website);this also worked great for me,and later on I bought the Silver Pulser from Sota (a Blood Purifier and Silver Pulser,combined;another invention of Bob Beck).My advice:first build both devices yourself;it’s cheap ($ 30-40 ,each);later on you can always by the devices from Sota;they’re quite expensive but professionally build.

        The Silver Pulser is used for both pulsing the blood (disabling bacteria,virusses,fungi and other pathogens),and producing Colloïdal Silver.The Magnetic Pulser is used to disabling those critters in deeper tissue,and to treat pain in joints and musles.Today,many clinics use this same technique to treat arthritis,and more.It’s an officially recognised treatment.

        My only complaint is about the quality of the power adapters that come with the Sota devices;I’ve replaced those with better ones (still not understand that Sota sells those expensive quality devices with such low quality power adapters;good ones are hardly more expensive).

      • joanneb4 September 8, 2019 at 10:01 am Reply

        Can we use aloe Vera products since they have natural salicylates or shampoos with willow bark another plant with natural salicylate?

        Jo Anne

        • L September 8, 2019 at 10:43 am

          I don’t see why not. In fact, when I was having the pelvic pressure and pain that I think was interstitial cystitis I used aloe vera caps. I also use aloe vera for assorted things (bug bites). Never any issue with it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 8, 2019 at 11:54 am

          I agree with L.;I think that those products are safe,used on the skin.I’ve never read anything to the contrary. Like Don writes,using it on large surfaces might have some risk,but the risk with NSAID’s like Ibuprofen,or Flogoprofen (never heard of that one ) is much more risky because the NSAID group in itself is very risky,in particular fot hte heart.There are specialists that claim,this painkiller group should be banned because of the high risk.

          First of all I should use magnesium oil,magnesium bath,or,if no bath available,magnesium soaked towels and feet bath with a magnesium solution (bittersalt/magn.sulfate,or magnesium chloride (Zechsal)). Better treat the cause than kill the pain.And remember;this pain isn’t just a curse;it also prevents you from putting too much force on those damaged tendons and joints;that’s the main reason why evolution created pain,after all.

        • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 12:05 pm

          Thanks, Henk. The impacted tendons do feel better after I apply the liquid mag. Not sure if placebo or truly addressing the root cause. Have you seen any improvement in the tendons over time? At this point I can walk 4-5 km before I feel pain (hopefully it gets better)

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 8, 2019 at 12:28 pm

          Yes,I was floxed in sept.2016,and some weeks later I had some terrible weeks,with first my left,and after that,my right foot Archillea tendon hurt like hell.The Magn.Pulser lessened the pain,and might have shortened the time this problem lasted but during these weeks I could hardly walk.Later on I had those same problems with other tendons as well,mainly in my knees and shoulders.Sometimes the pain comes back,but never so severe as it was,in the beginning.

          I do use magnesium oil,sometimes,but untill now only to level up my magnesium.I dislike the feeling of this “oil” on my skin,like I disliked the feeling of sunprotection in times I used it,or a sticky,sweaty skin when there’s hot weather.Most of the time I trust on my magn. supplements and my magnetic pulser.I seldom use Paracetamol (the only painkiller I use,since years).

        • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 3:53 pm

          (Sorry – posting again in the right place) Henk – I am looking at a portable Ultrasound machine to help heal the joints / tendons. Probably more economical / convenient than going to PT every day. Any experience with this?

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 9, 2019 at 12:46 am

          Hi Fred,I’m sorry;I have no experience with ultrasound devices.You might do a search on that particular device,and try to find some testimonials,but don’t forget that many of them are fake,and I don’t know of any producer that publishes negative testimonials on their website as well (hardly any of MY negative testimonials,anyway ;-)) Can you tell me/us which device you have in mind? Then,if I have enough time,I might do some (re)search for you on what users think about that device;useless to spend a lot of money on something that doesn’t work.

          That’s why I advice interested people to first build the Bob Beck devices,themselves,and use them for a while,like I did.The magnetic pulser is an easy one,not much more than modifying an electronic flash unit.The Blood Purifier/Silver Pulser is a bit more complicated;you’ll need a basic knowledge of electronics.But many people know somebody who an help building.The info to build those two devices,complete with the (simple) diagram for the Blood Purifier can be found on the bobbeck website.

        • Fred S September 9, 2019 at 4:42 am

          Henk – thanks. Here is what I am looking at – seems ok. https://www.lgmedsupply.com/pselgulunwic.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 9, 2019 at 5:00 am

          Hi Fred,I can hardly find anything about info about this device,except from their own website.Already explained why I distrust testimonials on the producer website,but I didn’t find any other sources.The price seems okay (the Sota devices are much more expensive).Might you buy this device that,please let me/us know if it works for you;I’m quite interested.

        • Fred S September 9, 2019 at 3:36 pm

          Thanks, Henk. I will try to research it a bit more. If I buy I will give you a review.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 10, 2019 at 1:06 am

          Thanks,Fred,and when you find interesting info about this device,could you please,place the link here,on FloxieHope?

        • Fred S September 10, 2019 at 4:02 pm

          Hi Henk, can you tell me a bit more about the mag pulser?. I found site that sells this and a few others. https://www.sota.com/sota-products.html

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 11, 2019 at 3:21 am

          Hi Fred,that’s the Sota website.At a presentation by Bob Beck,about his protocol,a visitor,Russ Torlage,showed Bob the devices he made for his wife because of her enduring illness,which forced her to stop working and liquidate her busyness.Russ found out about Bob Beck and his protocol,and,based on the diagrams from Bob built the devices.Bob Beck was impressed by the high quality builds that he endorsed them and approved building and selling those in a commercial way.That’s how the Sota company came on the market.

          Remember:the goal,for Bob Beck,was to develope a device that should be simple to build,but in the meantime very effective,so,everybody could build them ,maybe with a bit of help from a handy friend or neighbor.Russ Torlage,like Bob Beck,had a electrotechnical education,and had the knowledge to make some improvements to the original diagrams which were not really neccesary but made the devices more handy and easy to use (f.e. a timer,and the use of just one 9.volt block battery instead of three (he uses a tripler,which makes the needed 27 volt out of one 9 volt source;this brings down the size and weight of the device). Russ Torlage is the only person who’s devices were endorsed by Bob Beck,and the eventually became good friends.

          You can find every bit of information about Bob Beck and his protocol,including the electronic diagrams and directions on how to build them,ánd lots of information about Bob,and his life and works,here,including everything you want to know about the Magnetic Pulser (and how to build one,yourself,for cheap :-)) :


          Nice detail:as soon as he realized that the Blood Purifier (now called Silver Pulser,for political reasons) did a good job,neutralizing pathogens in the blood but couldn’t reach the critters which hided in the lymp system and other organs and deepr tissues,he looked for a way to create the same electric pulses in those places.he knew this could be done by magnetic pulses because everywhere in the body there are metals (iron,copper,zinc etc).To create a powerfull magnetic pulse he used a suited copper coil,and a an electronic flash unit (the one,photographers us,and which you find in almost every mobile phone,today).

          The low voltage electronic flash unit was,in fact,his first of many inventions,in 1948 (US Pat. #2,498,640).He sold the patent in 1950 for $ 500,which payed for his last trimester.Seemed like a lot of money for him,at the time,but little could he know about his photo flash unit becomming so popular.

  12. Don M September 8, 2019 at 7:43 am Reply

    Read the article carefully. It discusses having problems with salicylates. Aspirin is a salicylate. Also it says not to use it more than 7 days or over large areas. Read the article carefully and be aware of all the aspects of the product. This is what we were deprived of by the medical establishment when it came to Fluoroquinolones.

    • Fred S September 8, 2019 at 8:03 am Reply

      Thanks, Don

  13. Fred S September 9, 2019 at 5:54 am Reply

    General question – I noticed some “numbness” or reduced sensitivity in my right foot (large toe) – I am sure is related to Cipro nervous system damage. Seems to not be a life altering issue – more annoying than anything. Anyone else experience this? Does it eventually go away? is it worth going to a neurologist (who will deny Cipro could do this)? Thanks in advance.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 9, 2019 at 6:10 am Reply

      Hi Fred,you’re right on that.I had nerve damage from a double AB course (Amoxicillin and Metronidazole,in 2004),and lost a lot of sensitivity in my upper back,lower legs and feet,and some parts of my arms.The Cipro,in 2016,didn’t make things better.I have the impression that,since 2004,I got a bit of my sensitivity back,here and there,and Cipro didn’t take it all back away.Nerves do,sometimes,heal,but very,very slowely,if,ever.

    • L September 9, 2019 at 7:58 am Reply

      Everyone is different, so it’s hard to tell. All of my toes were/are numb 4 1/2 years out. It’s annoying but I can live with it. It was the least of my side effects. And at one point the numbness had gone all the way up to my calves, so I am glad it is just the toes. Unfortunately it’s a constant reminder…like a souvenir from a really bad trip. I used to love foot massages, but they just don’t do much for me anymore. Also when I am swimming it feels weird. I think it is maybe a little better because I had to initially actually look at my feet and place my sandals on them. Now I can get them on after a big of wiggling. I have always thought that perhaps since the distance to the toes is the furthest from the brain, that may have something to do with their demise. I had a LOT of nerve damage, and most of it has gone. But again, don’t go by me. Yours may well go away.

      • Fred S September 9, 2019 at 3:42 pm Reply

        Henk / L, thank you. I will probably wait and see what happens. I think going to neurologist will be a waste of time and $. I am so disappointed with conventional medicine. They are good at treating obvious things – like a broken arm. They fall down on system wide, functional issues like these (no creativity nor the desire to really help). The just want to prescribe a drug or order a test and move you along the assembly line.

        • L September 9, 2019 at 4:19 pm

          Good call. Of all the really uninformed, unhelpful, skeptical doctors I saw the neurologist (who came recommended from one of the few docs that was at least partially aware) was the WORST. (several others on the site had similar experiences with their neurologist) Just total tunnel vision. Then when I later read his office notes he had put down I was delusional and hysterical (this was during the worst where my movement and breathing was impaired, was in extreme pain, could barely see a few feet ahead of me and had over 30 side effects…and had lost 1/4 of my body weight.) He also wrote down that I had “pseudo medical knowledge.” If he had just bothered to use the computer sitting a foot from him, he could have corroborated everything I said. Oh—and here’s the real killer…He was not even aware that flqs can cause permanent nerve damage (“nonsense!”) , and that was a warning that had been out for several years.

        • Fred S September 9, 2019 at 6:29 pm

          Thanks, L. I realize it may not change anything but I am seriously considering writing a detailed letter of my ordeal to the CEO and Chief Medical Officer of the Healthcare Organization I have been going to. The purpose would be to point out 1) how the liberal use Cipro and its kind has real consequences to people’s lives and 2) the lack of acknowledgement and help from their doctors after the fact. I will include the doctor’s letters and reference the various groups and stories. I am also considering involving some of the local News teams (the problem solvers) and encourage a full story on this subject. I realize this may “fire-bombing” but I think people need to be woken up.

        • L September 9, 2019 at 7:15 pm

          I encourage you to do so. I probably couldn’t even come up with a figure for the number of letters I have written. Close to 100 I would guess. I wrote every doctor who dismissed me and attached studies, warnings, etc. I have written to magazines (I like to think I had something to do with Consumer Reports finally doing a piece on FLQ). I have written to public officials; news shows; celebrities with a “voice” (Oprah for one); the surgeon general; other magazines esp ones with a lot of drug ads—and then I have canceled them for having so many drug ads. I have written to nonprofits, especially those dealing with health issues. You name it! Go for it.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 10, 2019 at 1:16 am

          I have to correct you,here,Fred.You write “They fall down on system wide, functional issues like these”. This should be”They CAUSE functional issues like these”.

          It’s getting clearer by the day that much of all medical misery is caused by their “science based medicine” and by the chemicals of their compagnions in crime,the chemical industry.We eat,drink and breathe chemicals 24/7,every day of the week,month,year,and besides of a few,none of these substances are ever tested for health risks.And for the “medicines”those are tested,but too often those data are manipulated and cherrypicked to make a “medicine” look more effective,and safe.

        • Fred S September 10, 2019 at 4:26 am

          Henk – Thank you, I fully agree

  14. A.Coleman September 13, 2019 at 7:39 am Reply

    So, I have really been doing well. I have even had a few days that I was more or less normal and the other days the symptoms I have been dealing with have all been steadily getting better. Insomnia is still the only major issue I face along with some lingering head pressure / headaches.

    I am coming up on my 4 year floxiversary in a few weeks and I was thinking that maybe I would be able to start thinking of myself as well; though I don’t intend to write a recovery story until I am 6 months well.

    Then out of the blue I started experiencing bouts of anxiety. These started about a week ago. First at night and now during the day too; but not the last few nights. It just comes and goes staying around for 6 or so hours then fading for an unknown time.

    I know that time will probably heal the anxiety like with all FQ issues; but with this one issue standing between me and full health it is really a kick in the pants. My real question is how long?

    I have a family history of depression with both my father and maternal grandmother being diagnosed manic depressives. During a stressful period of my life about 10 years ago I was on an anti-depressant for about 6 years with no noticeable side effects. I have been off for about 6 years and the only issue was tapering off. I have already restarted that prescription just today and hopefully with the relatively mild anxiety I am experiencing that will get me to a good place along with my better health.

    Looking for any other cognitive behavioral approaches I can take to help me deal with this.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 13, 2019 at 8:05 am Reply

      A.Coleman,èverybody is a bit nervous,the last few days before a floxiversary ;-))

      Well,I hope this is just one of those little relapses that come and go,most of the time in a few days.Just don’t panic,and that anxiety will probably be shortlived. Not feeding it with worries wiil help it to fade away.I hope,you’re allright in time to celebrate your 4th floxiversary in good health!

    • L September 13, 2019 at 9:31 am Reply

      Sorry about the setback, but I don’t think an antidepressant is the answer. Like you, I had depression in family members, and I myself was on antidepressants for decades. Then I read that they were shown to be no better than a placebo in studies, and that turmeric (with 95% curcuminoids) was as effective as Prozac, I decided to go off them. (I found out the hard way that you need to wean off.) Your body is already trying to fix itself from the flq damage and antidepressants will only add to the burden. Also some antidepressants contain fluoride, which should be avoided. Here is a piece from Dr Mercola on why they should be avoided, with some suggestions at the end. https://healthimpactnews.com/2011/antidepressant-drugs-do-not-work-and-they-have-serious-side-effects/

    • L September 13, 2019 at 4:30 pm Reply

      I haven’t but just a few days ago a friend with shoulder issues said she is getting it and it seems to help her. I was going to look into it.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 2:50 am Reply

      Fred,there’s red light and red light. This device emits 660 nM,and does hardly reach the deeper skin layers. To treat depper tissue,like tendons and muscles,you’ll need a higher frequenty Near Infrared “Light wavelengths from 680nm to 880nm can pass through skin and muscle tissue” So;this device is suited to treat the wrincles of your skin.In fact;that webpage gives me the creeps;the photo of that woman with a white doctor’s coat,and the many medical claims (where is the science?). “Medical grade components”???? “THE BRAND RECOMMENDED BY TODAY’S LEADING DOCTORS” That must be the “doc” from the photo (probably a mmodel) ??

      They shout ” FDA cleared medical device,under K-100213″ ,all over the place but that just means that the FDA sees no harm in the thing:

      “We have reviewed your Section 5 1 0(k) premarket notification of intent to market the devicereferenced above and have determined the device is substantially equivalent (for the indicationsfor use stated in the enclosure) to legally marketed predicate devices marketed in interstatecommerce prior to May 28, 1976, the enactment date of the Medical Device Amendments, or todevices that have been reclassified in accordance with the provisions of the Federal Food, Drug,and Cosmetic Act (Act) that do not require approval of a premarket approval application(PMA). You may, therefore, market the device, subject to the general controls provisions of theAct. FDA cleared medical device, under K-100213FDA cleared medical device, under K-100213”

      “3000 mW input of the proven and therapeutic 660nm red light wavelength.” Well,this tells you that the power INPUT of the led is 3 watt,but it doesn’t tell you how much of that power is emitted in the form of Near Infrared light.

      In short: this smells fishy,all over.You might do yourself a favor and read the critical reviews on that page (362 critical,1209 satisfied;that’s a bad score!).This device is NOT handy (it should be in a pad form,like the Sota Lightworks), very expensive (for what you get),and there is NO warranty.(On the page:”Please contact the seller directly for warranty information for this product. You may also be able to find warranty information on the manufacturer’s website.” Well,people who’s device got broke,most of them in days or weeks,didn’t see any money back,and after the first mail the seller just stopped reacting to further mails.$200,and NO warranty!

      Here’s an interesting article about lightning technics.It shows that the best source for Near Infrared light is….the sun! Next best source is an oldfashoned filament lamps (yes,the incandescent lamps, now almost forbidden and replaced by very unhealth flickering devices,that,some of them,emit dangerous levels of UV,as well).:


      • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 5:09 am Reply

        Thanks, Henk. Looking at the Sota products, I sense they are more reputable than some others I have seen. Sota has been around for a while and have a wide selection of products. What is your view of light therapy vs the magnetic pulser for stimulating tendon healing / bloodflow? Thanks in advance.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 6:06 am

          Hi Fred,I (still :-(( don’t own a Sota Lightworks,so I can’t compare both the Lightworks and the Sota Magnetic Pulser.I do have really good experiences with the MP. It helped me to overcome severe carb intolerece (with both hyper- and hypoglycemia).Twice,first time in 2007,after an absurd AB corce with both Amoxicillin and Metronidazole (2004),and later on,in 2016,when I got floxed.In 2007,it also helped me to get rid of loose stools,another adverse reaction since the AB course in 2004,in TWO weeks,while I hardly had any improvements,using many different probiotics and other remedies.Only Colloidal Silver gave a small,but noticabel improvement.

          I also used it on my Archlllea tendons,some weeks after being floxed,and on numerous other ocassions.Magnetic pulsing is used in many therepeutic centra and clinics,now,to treat arthritis.I use it on painfull tendons and joints,and it helps in reducing the pain,the effect noticable in 1/2-1 hour,most of the time.

          But when you really want to know what magn.pulsing can do for you,you’d better build a pulser,yourself (second hand photo flashlight and a suitable coil will cost you ca. $ 30-40; the right (2,5 mm2 cable and the needed recharcheable batteries another few $’s))

          These homebuild devices work as good as the expensive Sota devices.The Sota devices are quite a bit more handy in use,and more durable and of high quality,but this comes at a price.I still use my homebuild MP regularly,in my bedroom because it works off-grid,and I don’t need to carry around my Sota MP. Only negative of the homebuild unit: you have to push the test button of the flash unit for every pulse,after the recharge of the capacitor (flash units have a little “flash ready” light,to indicate the capacitor is fully charched).

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 6:32 am

          About my homebuild magnetic pulser: I use Vivitar 2800 flashlights,and buy them secondhand for ca. € 5 – €8. This one has enough power,and the way it’s built makes it easy to open,and lead a cable to the inside to connect (the needed hole is already there;no need to drill one).The coil I use is a Visaton 5032 copper coil (2,2 mH,1,3 mm2 ). You need to use a cable that’s thicker than the wire of the coil,otherwise much of the flash power will be turned into heat,in the cable,because of the higher resistance of the cable,compared to the resistance of the coil.That’s why I use a 2 x 2,5 mm2 (double wired) power cord.

      • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 5:48 am Reply

        Henk – another interesting site. Seems they recommend a device with wavelengths in the 800-850nm range and greater than 50mW/cm² power density for arthritis (not sure tendons are impacted)

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 6:18 am

          Fred,thanks for the link.It’s what I explained,before,and what makes the Sota Light works (850nm and approximately 455 milliwatts (3 visible Red light leds,included) a YES,and the Tendlite a big,fat NO.The Sota MP costs twice as much,but I wouldn’t doubt a second and go for the Lightworks ( hope to buy that one,soon,to make my Sota device collection complete :-)) Have a nice weekend!

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 3:02 am Reply

      This is how a description of such a device should be.You want to know the light frequenty,and the OUTPUT power (notice,the Sota Lightworks N-IR leds emit 850 nm,a probably more (medical)usefull frequenty,as far as I found in web available info).

      “Near Infrared LEDs: Features 57 high-intensity Near Infrared invisible LED lights with a wavelength of 850 nanometers (nm) (+/- 10 nm) plus 3 visible Red LED lights with a light output of approximately 455 milliwatts (mW)*.

      *Frequency Tolerance: +/- 1 Hz. (Light Output measured using a Newport Optical 1830-C Light Meter.) ”


  15. Fred S September 14, 2019 at 6:30 am Reply

    Had a good meeting with a new Functional medicine doctor. Put on a supplement plan to address the Cipro tox issues and also put me on a very strict diet for 6 weeks to reduce inflammation (but may add back as needed). Organic vegetables, fruits and antibiotic free meat and eggs. No caffeine, no dairy no grains. Very tough for me – I love my Ezekiel bread and coffee in the morning. It is probably good for me (floxed or not) but certainly takes some joy out of life. Anyone else have to make this switch?

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 6:36 am Reply

      Funny: you go to a Functional Medicine doc,who tells you exactly what most health conscious people already know ;-))

      • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 9:46 am Reply

        Henk – I hear you. Unfortunately many people (me included) take health for granted until it is compromised gone. I had always been very active and ate reasonably well and took care of myself (not to the extent she is asking now). I lived with no smoking, no recreational drugs, little or no alcohol and no risky sexual / social behavior. I realize she is going back to basics on diet (almost caveman like eating) but a difficult transition. I guess if I want to make lemonade from the Cipro lemons I can say that I will improve my diet and hopefully when these issues are behind me, I will be better off.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 2:44 am

          Hi Fred,

          “I lived with no smoking, no recreational drugs, little or no alcohol and no risky sexual / social behavior”

          That are the NO’s,and they are a wise choice,indeed,but where is the food choice? A bad food choice may be as disastrous as any of the NO ‘s you mentioned.

          Many people live an almost risk-free life,like you,but forget about the importance of a healthy food choice,untill they get ill.I’ve read of people,diagnosed with cancer,who refused the usual treatment but changed their lifestyle’s and in particular their food choices.And to the suprices of their doc’s,their tumors disappeared! They were lucky to react to that nasty wake-up call,in time,and in the right way;many are nót.

          Most of the talk,here,is about medicines,but your Functional Medicine doc puts you on a “Cave Men” diet for a good reason;most of our modern food is chemically poisoned,as is our air,drinking water,etc.Bio-organic food proves to work better,sometimes,than medicines,because it gives our bodies the right substances to let it heal himself.I can’t afford to eat 100% bio-organic,but where bio is too expensive for me,I choose for the least polluted options.The body has an amazing power of self-healing,but it needs your help to do so!

        • Fred S September 20, 2019 at 4:12 am

          Thanks, Henk. The only blessing from the bad FQ poisoning is recognizing the importance of good, clean food.

    • L September 14, 2019 at 9:13 am Reply

      Yes, and it sounds just right. (I missed my Killer Dave bread.) I cut out dairy (didn’t each much to begin with), soy, anything gmo or heavily processed and only had organic fruit and veg (some are not too bad nonorganic. EWG puts out a good list). Cut out caffeine, alcohol, chocolate….pretty much everything I like. But for months I was having such horrific breathing problems that I couldn’t really chew anyhow. IT was really eat or chew—those were my choices, so I lived on smoothies with fruit, spinach or another veg, bananas, coconut oil, almond butter and almond milk for a long time. Then I added back in the organic meats. (not in the smoothies!)

      Eventually I was able to add back chocolate, coffee, wine (occasional scotch 🙂 ) When I have dairy it is usually goats milk cheese. I still try to avoid gluten, because I have read it’s not great for anyone but I do buy organic sour dough, which if made the old fashioned way, with starter, seems to be better than other breads in that regard. (most gluten free breads just have too much rice flour, and rice is high in arsenic. Plus they are just not that nutritious. And I just plain cheat sometimes. Like last night. I had a chocolate chip cookie at an event.

      • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 10:01 am Reply

        Thanks, L. I did not realize the arsenic in GF bread – I will definitely stop that. I guess that is why my FM doctor referred to it as “crap” when I mentioned it. The diet seems to be more Paleo (with no grains, beans or bacon). Just unprocessed seeds, nuts, fresh fruit, vegetables (preferably raw) and clean meat. No beans, dairy, grains, caffeine, sweets, sugar or alcohol. It really does suck, to be honest. The only thing I look forward to in the evening is my CBD wind down and then listening to Pink Floyd.

        • L September 14, 2019 at 10:31 am

          I don’t know if it is available everywhere, but here in CA there is a “bread” called BUK and it has only seeds, no grains. It is very heavy (and very expensive!) so you have to toast it, but it’s good with avocado smashed on top of it, or just butter. And though it is expensive, because it is so dense, it lasts me a couple weeks. https://bukfoods.com/products/original-gluten-free-bread

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 10:52 am

          I have a recipy of rice bread,called “Poor Man’s bread”,in one of my (many :-)) cooking and baking books.I made it,once,many years ago;don’t remember how I liked it.

        • L September 14, 2019 at 10:57 am

          I used to love rice as a side dish but now I have it only very occasionally because of the arsenic. And brown rice, which is healthier has even more! https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/arsenic-in-rice#section5

        • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 11:05 am

          Speaking of rice, I have seen a few sites for micronized purple rice stating a lot of benefits. Ruth mentioned it worked for her. Has anyone else has success with this? Thanks

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 11:34 am

          Micronized purple rice ? This sounds weird,and creepy.Can you eat it? ;-))

        • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 11:59 am
        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 12:20 pm

          Fred,I only see a “miracle” story,one of the thousands,or even milions on the web,that is followed by the well known button: “Ready to order? Click here”.

          I like the photo’s: first,the sick husband,in a pale,white shirt,followed by the same husband,now looking healthy ,in a….PURPLE shirt.Thanks for the good laugh;almost wetted my pants ;-))

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 11:57 am

          Found the following info on the arsenic in rice problem:

          * There are maximum levels set in legislation on the levels of inorganic arsenic allowed in rice and rice products in the EU. (That’s where I live).

          * Basmati rice from California, India, or Pakistan is the best choice, according to Consumer Reports data. These types of rice have about one third of the inorganic arsenic compared to brown rice from other regions. (That’s the only rice I eat;the lowest on the list of glycemic index.And I only eat white rice (which is lower in arsenic than brown rice. I also really love the taste of Basmati rice. Pandan and Jasmin rice taste well,to,but it’s the added Pandan leaves,and Jasmin blossem that make the taste,here,while Basmati has a great taste,by itself.).

          * There is no doubt about it, arsenic in rice is a problem.This may pose a health risk to those who eat rice every day in considerable amounts.This mainly applies to people in Asia or people with Asian-based diets.(I only eat rice,once a week,or two weeks.Never had any of the symptoms,mentioned for a low dose arsenic poisoning.

          * Even when consuming only small amounts of rice,and not on a daily base,you can still lower your risk:

          “Published studies indicate that cooking rice in excess water (from six to 10 parts water to one part rice), and draining the excess water, can reduce 40 to 60% of the inorganic arsenic content, depending on the type of rice.”

  16. Sheila rogers September 14, 2019 at 8:18 am Reply

    I was sorting some old medical files of mine and I have had surgeries for a leg condition since birth my first surgery was at 18 months old then 1-2 times a year until I reached 15 years of age the surgeries done in the early 60’s was done using Flurothane anesthesia – anyone know if this is related to fluroquinlines and ‘ones??? I worry when I see fluro at the beginning of any meds now

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 9:16 am Reply

      Quick response (I’m in the midst of my evening meal). I might have had this same anest.,half of the 60’s. This is what I found,and the “Fluro” is,indeed,from Fluoride:


    • L September 14, 2019 at 9:20 am Reply

      are you sure it wasn’t fluothane? That sounds like what you may have been given, and I can’t find anything saying it has fluoride. But I know, I am the same way. They wanted to do a fluroscan (or something like tat) on my eyes and I kind of freaked out and kept asking if it had fluoride and the doctor looked at me like I was in insane

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 10:21 am Reply

        You’re right,L. must have been Halothane,sold under the brand name Fluothane:


        Probably got that stuff,as well,in the sixties;had an operation of my tonsilla pharyngica,as a child.Firdt got an injection,to make a calm,and a bit sleepy,and while laying on the operation table,got some kind of gass,knocking me out.They almost started the operation when one of them noted I had my eyes still half open.After the operation I had to vomit quite a bit of blood,as did the other children who just had the same operation (kind of Henry Ford system,in that operation room).

        • Sheila rogers September 14, 2019 at 10:29 am

          it’s possible there was a typo, since my condition was in my left leg and all my papers say right leg thank god no one used those papers to do my amputation……. yes I had ether that horrible black mask omg all I have to do is see that in my minds eye and I smell that stuff 45 years later…..so there is no worry with it assuming that was a typo in the paperwork?

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 14, 2019 at 10:54 am

          Must be the same stuff they gave me;that nasty smell came back,time after time,for years! Even had nightmares which woke me up with that smell in my nose!

  17. 63chevyii September 14, 2019 at 1:30 pm Reply

    ugh … how much does a possible Lyme infection complicate recovery?

    Any input regarding which of my symptoms should be associated with FQ Toxicity rather than Lyme disease (poll in link):

    POLL: Antibiotic Toxicity or Lyme Disease?

    • L September 14, 2019 at 3:57 pm Reply

      well the good news is that treatment is very much the same. When I was getting my IVs, one of my doctors was a Lyme specialist, so at least half the people I saw there getting IVs were there for Lyme. The protocols were quite similar…high dose C, ozone, myers… Not sure how much more it actually complicates it. But I always tell people if they can’t find a practitioner who has had floxie patients, try to find someone who has treated lyme naturally

    • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 4:34 pm Reply

      Keep in mind that most doctors will never acknowledge FQ tox. I was tested for everything under the sun (including Lyme) and found nothing. Rather than calling it FQ tox they called in chronic fatigue and depression (which is BS). I hope you are not being jerked around like this.

      • 63chevyii September 16, 2019 at 7:39 am Reply

        I am afraid that I am headed down this road. Depression has been brought up as a possible cause for the exhaustion and I fell like the “inconclusive” Lyme test complicates everything.

        I plan to have a follow up with my PCP next week. I am guessing that she’ll want to start testing for other stuff.

    • Fred S September 14, 2019 at 4:39 pm Reply

      Also – how is your bicep tendon? Did it heal fully?

      • 63chevyii September 16, 2019 at 7:41 am Reply

        I had my last follow-up with my surgeon a couple weeks ago. I finished PT last week.
        I am told that next week and should be able to ‘do whatever I want’ with my arm.

        It is sore today, although I did do anything of note yesterday … it is much less sore than my right knee though, which really, should have no reason to be hurting.

  18. 63chevyii September 14, 2019 at 1:31 pm Reply

    How much does a possible Lyme infection complicate recovery?

    Any input regarding which of my symptoms should be associated with FQ Toxicity rather than Lyme disease (poll in link):

    POLL: Antibiotic Toxicity or Lyme Disease?

    • L September 14, 2019 at 4:00 pm Reply

      …and you can be tested for lyme

      • 63chevyii September 16, 2019 at 7:37 am Reply

        I was tested, but it came back inconclusive.

        • L September 16, 2019 at 9:33 am

          My suggestion would be to find a doctor that treats Lyme. A specialist would be more able to look at the tests and then together with an exam, decide the probability. And you want to find a functional/integrative MD. They would likely have similar treatment protocols for Lyme and for flq toxicity. Most MDs are clueless when it comes to flq toxicity.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 16, 2019 at 1:04 pm

          With a Lyme test they test your blood on certain antibodies.so,a second test will probably give the same result as the first one.And the only way our great medical care system treats Lyme is,by ….antibiotics.The main problem is,that it is not clear if any of your present symptoms is (still) related to that Lyme infection,if there were one,to begin with.

          “Most of the joint stuff and exhaustion was mild before getting floxed” might have reasons which got no connection to a (supposed?) FQ-poisoning,and using antibiotics for an infection that is nót 100% sure could make your health even worse,while there are no profits to be gained. FQ’s are the most powerfull broadspectum AB’s,and when there was a Lyme infection,then,it should probably have been gone? When there was a longer excisting Lyme infection,then,you might have needed a longer lasting AB treatment; I’m not so well informed about Lyme.

          Like you wrote,yourself: since there’s a possibility that you have a Lyme infection,ánd you have a FQ-toxification, both of which having some overlapping symptoms,things got quite complicated,indeed.While most serieus symptoms are post FQ,focussing on your problems from FQ-poisoning seems to be the most sensible choise.A new Lyme test might,maybe,shed some light on what’s really going on; is there,besides the FQ tox a Lyme infection,or not. Your poll doesn’t help,here.

        • L September 16, 2019 at 1:25 pm

          And that is why I suggested an integrative MD (or ND). Their treatments involve nutrient IVs and supplements. (or should)

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 16, 2019 at 1:56 pm

          I agree: go to your doc,and the hospital,for a (first) diagnoses (that’s where all my insurance money goes,anyway),and than to an integrative/holistic doc for a second opinion and a teratment,or,when you can’t afford this,try the WWW and do a search for others who have,or had the same problems

          Strange letter in my mailbox,1 1/2 week ago,form my (both) doc’s;an invitation for farewell meeting.Some time ago I heard of my doc’s soon going to retire,so,before reading the letter I got very excited: an opportunity so choose a new doc in that medical centre,nearby my home ( there’s an arrangement between the docs which forbids patients to move from one doc to another,in that same centre,for whatever reason). My joy was shortlived: not my docs,but their ASSISTANT retired.The woman behind the window,the one that tells you to sit down in the waiting room “The doc will call you,when it’s your turn”

          What,on earth,do these people think? That they’re All gods? Even the assistent,with whom I don’t feel any connection at all? I know most cashier in the supermarkets I visit frequently way better tnan the assistent from my doc’s,although I know her (vagely) since 15 years! I know,she’s always polite,sometimes a bit (too) strict,and she,herself,probably has,at best,only a vague memory of me,if any; why should I want to say goodbye to her? How weird can things get?

        • L September 16, 2019 at 3:36 pm

          You can’t change doctors? That’s absurd.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 17, 2019 at 2:40 am

          L.,I can’t change doc (s) with another doc,in the same center.Most docs in my town have started to gther in a new build center;there are three,in my town. The one,where both my docs work (they have a practice,together,before,and now in that center),is only a few minutes from my home,by bike (I don’t have a car).The other two are both over 20 minutes away,by bike.That’s quite far,when you’re really sick,and have pain,fever,or both.

          That’s why I was glad when I heard that both my doc’s are planning of a retirement soon,and when that letter came,I first thought it might be my lucky day.But it’s their assistent that retires,now.And a new doc,in one of those other centers is,because of the distance,not an option for me.

          When my doc’s retire,another doc,or eventwo docs will probably buy their pratice,and I will automatically become his/their patient.At least,I hope so.Things are getting more and more weird,here,in the Netherlands.

          Another disaster;plans are made to close the hospital in our town,and the one in another city,15-20 kilometers from here,and build a brand new wan,somewhere in the middle.People,in both towns don’t want that but today it’s the insurances and the hospitals who make the rules.In my town live 67.000 people,and in that other town 77.000;both hospitals serve the surrounding smaller towns as well;so;both of them have more than enough “customers” to cover the costs.The one in my town recently renovated the building and had a new wing build,which costed milions.Money,thrown away.

        • L September 17, 2019 at 10:31 am

          Anything for a buck! I just finished writing a long letter to our Gov here in CA who signed into law a “mandatory/ no exemptions” vaccine bill for children, in spite of overwhelming evidence of harm they can cause. We are so over-vaccinated and over-medicated that our poor bodies are loaded with toxic adjuvants and struggle to rely on their own innate immune systems. (and I read it is a world wide “goal” to get everyone vaccinated! Hmmm, let me guess who is behind that!) https://globalpossibilities.org/vaccine-mandates-for-everyone-everywhere-a-globally-coordinated-agenda/

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 15, 2019 at 1:06 am Reply

      SInce your Lyme infection was prior to getting floxed it shouldn’t be hard to distinguish between the (early) Lyme symptoms (were already there,before getting floxed),and the FQ tox symptoms (which came after used a FQ antibiotic).

      “How much does a possible Lyme infection complicate recovery? ”

      It’s absolutely impossible to answer this question.There’s even no definite answer to the question :” Is a full (100%) recovery of FQ tox. possible?

      I don’t think your poll makes any sense (except from marketing your T-shirts ;-)) What kind of usefull knowledge do you hope to get as a result from this poll,if any?

      • 63chevyii September 16, 2019 at 7:36 am Reply

        Most of the joint stuff and exhaustion was mild before getting floxed, but I feel like some of that is due to a horrible schedule and getting older. Both of those got worse after I got floxed.

        As far as knowledge, I’m hoping for some clarity in regards to what I am going through so that when I have a follow up with my PCP, I can hopefully speak about what is going on intelligently.

        I talked to her last week, asking if I need to be testing again after I finish the anitbiotics, she said that it wasn’t necessary … however, my wife, who is a nurse, says that the doctors she works with always do a follow up bloodwork.

        I was told told if I feel better, I dont’ even need to schedule a follow-up. I do feel a little better, but am wondering if I’m just coming down from a flare-up of the FQ toxicity.

        • Fred S September 16, 2019 at 10:48 am

          Unfortunately, for most us, joints will be an issue with FQ tox. I am doing all I can to reverse it but it will take months / years to get better based on what I have heard

        • L September 16, 2019 at 10:52 am

          One thing that can help is prolozone injections. Cipro left me with torn menisucus in both knees. At one point I was using a cane. I had prolozone in both knees and within a few months I was back to doing most things I did before. I had to go back to get another injection in one of them a year or so later but that’s fine. I will keep doing that as I need to. It helps the body heal itself. (not to be confused with prolotherapy which operates the same way but with different ingredients.) I got mine from an ND, but many sports med doctors and even some orthos now use it, as well as PRP (platelet rich plasma)

        • Fred S September 16, 2019 at 1:49 pm

          Thanks, L. When you did the prolozone you were able to avoid any type of surgery? Have your joints returned to pre-flox levels? Mine get sore and then then calm down. Seems like my Achilles’ have improved with ice treatments. Still have some pain in wrist, hands and arms. Also, my shoulder is messed up (but was before floxing) and I suspect a rotator cuff. Can prolozone therapy help that without surgery? I like the idea of no surgery healing.

        • L September 16, 2019 at 3:29 pm

          Yes, this was in lieu of surgery. And as I mentioned if I had trouble in the future I would just get another injection. I will not do surgery. (and you may need several injections a few weeks a apart to begin with. It really depends on the situation. but you will likely feel pain relief rather quickly.) I am not familiar with the following place but it gives a good explanation, and a list of the types of things it helps. https://www.wellspringhopkins.com/prolozone-injections/

        • Fred S September 16, 2019 at 3:41 pm

          Thanks, L. I will definitely look into this I lieu of surgery (if / when the time comes). My distrust of conventional medicine is at an all time high

        • L September 16, 2019 at 3:59 pm

          welcome to the club. The only serious health issues I have had in my life are all courtesy of western medicine

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 15, 2019 at 1:11 am Reply

      ” I also had a Lyme disease test – the results were inconclusive, but showed evidence of a prior Lyme infection or a prior/current infection of a different tick-borne illness. ”

      Any idea how hard the evidence actually is? “Maybe” is definitely NOT a scientifically acceptable word.

      • 63chevyii September 16, 2019 at 7:28 am Reply

        I wasn’t too happy with the ‘results’ from the test – I was definitely hoping for more a yes you have it or no you don’t.

        I will probably have a follow up with my PCP next week and will ask for a better explanation of what was found in the results.

  19. Lukasz September 16, 2019 at 2:09 pm Reply

    I’m curious to know if others on this site have observed depression/anxiety, or their general mental state get worse upon cloudy and rainy days? Do you notice a mental and even physical deterioration on those days? How about on full moon days or days preceding it? Also, do any of you experience slight body vibrations (shaking) upon eating that slowly recede over time? I’ve noticed a pattern for quite a few years now. Want to see if others are in the same camp.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 16, 2019 at 2:35 pm Reply

      I have those same reactions,on cloudy days,and in winter,since I was a child,and still have this sensitivity. I think it’s (partially) linked to being low in magnesium,and the depressive feelings this causes.Many people feel different on full moon nights and the days before,and after;being floxed might have made you a bit more sensitive,or might have made you more aware of your feelings and emotions (that might have been always there,without you,being aware of them).

      Those “shaky” feelings,after eating,might be your bloodsugar level being out of balance (you might buy a glucose meter,just to be sure everything is alright there),or it might be,just like the feelings you mentioned,on cloudy days: you take more notice of every change of feelings than you did before being floxed. Anxiety might be the cause,of both.

      • Lukasz September 17, 2019 at 9:09 am Reply

        Thanks for your feedback, Henk. It’s all very strange. Immediately after getting floxed, I felt 100x worse on cloudy, rainy and full moon days. Winter days were especially bad too. Prior to getting floxed, no issues with any of these days. I suppose you could be right about the magnesium deficiency causing this. Perhaps low stores of magnesium in the body cause a more prevalent reaction during cloudy, rainy, full moon and winter days. I’ve also noticed that I feel much better during the day and that I start to slip as the day winds down. By evening, I’m feeling at my lowest. Do you also experience this downward spiral which begins in the late afternoon?

        As for the shaky feeling, it’s definitely not related to my blood sugar as my blood sugar levels have been optimal every time they’ve been tested. 5.0 every time. I only get these shakes when I start to eat and have even observed my hand and fork shaking. I sometimes worry about it being a sign of MS, ALS or Parkinson’s, though I hope I’m wrong. More than anything, it feels like it’s related to my nerve damage. I’m hoping that this will resolve at some point and not lead to something more serious.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 17, 2019 at 9:55 am

          Hi Lukasz,FQ’s are known to drain the body from magnesium;that’s why the first aid advise for new floxies is always magnesium supplementation. Another defficiency that might be causing this is a vit. D deficiency.This is often called a winter- or spring depression (at the end of winter,your vit. D level is at it’s lowest),and because you’re very limited in your outdoor activities,your vit.D levels will,definately be lower than before you were floxed.

          I,too,have strange reactions,during and directly after eating,and I don’t know what causes this.First thought was my bloodsugar level,and I tested them,several times,nothing wrong,except for one or twoo times when I was,indeed,way too high, but not at a dangerous level;never over 13 mmol.It’s the extremely fast bloodsugar rising that causes the same feeling/sensation as,when you’re really too high.This high level drops at the same absurd speed,thus creating a sensation of a too low level,but this,in my case,only once got lower than 3,9 mmol.

          Like I said;that shaky feeling,which is,in my case,accompanied by a heavy brain fog,is apparently not caused by a too high,or low bloodsugar level.After a while I discovered that it is after I’d eaten bread,that this sensation was there.Strangely,enough,I seldom,or never have this problem after having eaten (whole grain) pasta.That’s what I don’t understand;why does this problem show up after bread,but nót after pasta,while both are made of whole wheat? Could it be the yeast? What makes it even more complicated is the fact that it isn’t only there wile,and after eating bread,but it is not always there.

          Temperatures are going down,and I’m gonna buy me a few kilo’s of fresh milled spelt flour.And I have the intention to bake it “the lazy way”; the No Knead Bread”.Maybe the fact that,in this recipy,you only use a tiny amount of yeast,and it has a very long rising time (from 12 hours,to 1,or even 2 days).Made,this way,the taste is really great,and I hope that this solves the problem.I’ve used this method only once,untill now,and that was a fwe years ago,in a time that I was not totally aware of the link between this nasty reaction while/after a meal,and the bread.

          I really hope this No Kneed bread will solve the problem because I love eating good quality bread,although,thanks to 2 AB courses,I can only eat 1 1/2 slice of bread.Eating 2 slices,or more,still rises my bloodsugar level to high,and too fast.

          I’m quite curious if your reaction can be connected to bread,as well,or doesn’t it matter what you eat? If so,than I really don’t know (yet) what the cause might be.Maybe other floxies do have suggestions?

        • Lukasz September 17, 2019 at 3:25 pm

          Problem with magnesium for me is that every time I tried using it, I got a bad reaction out of it. It didn’t even matter which brand or method. It would simply make me worse and I’d have to withdraw from it.

          As for vitamin D, I’ve been tested several times over the years including recently and I’m in the normal range. I’ve spent a decent amount of time in the sun this summer so my levels aren’t too bad for the time being. I’m sure they’ll be dropping off soon though. Are you on a vitamin D supplement currently? If so, how many I.U.s do you take? Medical professionals opinion on how many I.U.s to take is all over the place with some claiming a small amount is enough while others say high doses are required.

          So you get these tremors too while eating? Interesting. For me, it usually occurs with most foods that I eat, though there are exceptions. For example, I just finished having half of an organic chocolate and no tremors during or after having it, but with larger meals, it’s almost guaranteed and starts as soon as I put the spoon or fork to my mouth. As I’ve said before, I’m convinced that this has something to do with my damaged nervous system because these light vibrations also occur when I’m not eating, though I often don’t notice them as much then since I’m busy doing things. It’s not just bread for me either, it could be anything, but I’m sure it’s worse after bread. As of recently, I’ve been having one or two slices of sunflower bread before bed but I’m thinking about going back to gluten-free bread just to compare. That’s awesome that you bake your own bread though.

          Anyway, I’ll keep you posted if I find anything out re: the cause and/or resolution.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 3:43 am

          Sorry;forgot to answer your question.No,I’m not using any vit.D supp.,at the moment.I do use them,during the winter,combined with the use of my near-infrared lamps (2 rimes a week,or so).In The Netherlands you can only get vit. D out of sunlight form half april to half august,so,it’s about time to start supplementing.

        • Lukasz September 17, 2019 at 3:31 pm

          I spoke too soon. Light tremors are occurring as I write this. Very subtle but I do feel them.

        • Lukasz September 18, 2019 at 11:31 am

          Similar situation in Canada. How many International Units (IUs) do you use when supplementing?

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 11:43 am

          Lukasz,here we don’t use international units. I use 25 mcg/day.On the container it also says: 1000ie;might that be the same as your iu’s?

        • Lukasz September 18, 2019 at 3:05 pm

          Right, I think 25 mcg is 1,000 IU since 1 IU is the biological equivalent of 0.025 mcg. 1,000 IUs per day is what most vitamin D manufacturers recommend but natural health practitioners and many others seem to think that’s way too low. I’ve seen 10,000 IUs being recommended for winter months and upwards of 5,000 for non-winter months. Like you, I’ve mostly stuck to the recommended dosage but there have been times when I’ve upped my dosage. Not sure if I noticed any difference with the increase but I guess vitamin D supplementation is meant to keep the levels from dropping too low. I’m not sure that any noticeable change in health would be visible with the addition of these vitamin drops but who knows, maybe some people actually notice improvements when taking them? Have you noticed any difference?

        • L September 18, 2019 at 3:40 pm

          My doctor initially had me on 10,000 IU and I am in sunny CA! I stayed at that rate for a couple years and now I take 5,000 daily (with k2)

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 19, 2019 at 2:48 am

          Lukasz,Dr.Mercola,more than once,wrote about the importance of vit.DEven wrote about a calculation,being made decennia ago,that put the advised amount of vit.D we need daily a factor op 10 x too low. A scientist that can’t calculate? And settled the amount of vit.D we take daily,for years to come,untill some really bright scientist (they dó excist!) read through his research papers and discovered the calculation mistake.How,on eart,can such a research paper pas a peer review?

          Well,my supp is,indeed very much on the low side,but I try to be outside as much as possible,during the 4 months that the sun gets high enough in the sky to produce vit.D on/in our skins.And I eat fish,and eggs,several times a week (low on meat;low quality and still too expensive).In winter I also have my “light-supp”;my narrow band UV-B lamps,which I use 1 or 2 times a week.

          You might read the article, L.linked,of one of the vit.D articles,Dr.Mercola;you can find more about this subject on his website as well:Here’s that link,again:


          And as he (L) advised,buying both vit D and vit. K2 seperate is a lot cheaper.Shopping around is profitable;I buy mine each from a different trademark;even cheaper than from the same trademark,for me :-)) vit. K2 are caps,vit D3 are pills,so,you have to add the oil. I take mine,directly after dinner (which has an adequat amount of oil and/or butter).The oil in the supp you talk about makes that supp so expensive (harder to produce,prone to get rinsy,over time,so,a shorter shelf-life).

          Buy your supps the critical way,but don’t be over-worried about the adds.Only avoid the really bad ones;being too critical makes life too complicated.You might consider buying your supps form the Mercola webshop:I have much confidence in his products.

        • Lukasz September 18, 2019 at 6:33 pm

          Do you feel this combination enhances your health? Some say vitamin D drops are a waste of money. That they do little to nothing to improve health. How do you see it?

        • Lukasz September 18, 2019 at 6:38 pm

          Many people feel that sunshine and food containing vitamin D are the only true ways for the body to absorb and utilize vitamin D. The other unfortunate thing is that the vitamin D and K2 combo is expensive. Plus many of them contain additives.

        • L September 18, 2019 at 6:52 pm

          If you buy d and k separately it’s actually pretty cheap as far as supplements go. I think it I one of the most crucial ones you can buy. For on thing, D is SO important for your bones. Also supposed to help prevent against cancer and other diseasese, and according to mercola most of us don’t get nearly enough of it. https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/08/08/low-vitamin-d-levels.aspx

        • Lukasz September 18, 2019 at 7:21 pm

          True. I was looking more at the drops which are expensive when combined. It’s a shame about not being able to have milk and butter, both of which contain good amounts of vitamin D. Other good sources of it are fish liver oils, eggs, sprouted seeds and beef. I’ve not been eating any beef for years. I think I’m going to start eating it again, organic of course.

        • Lukasz September 19, 2019 at 5:17 pm

          Good advice, Henk. Thanks. Can you provide a link to the UV lamps you use? Does this manufacturer ship to Canada? And just how effective are these lamps anyway?

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 20, 2019 at 1:56 am

          Hi Lukasz,I have an armature,with two of these lamps:


          I will look for a reseller that ships to Canada,but you might do a search for a reseller,near you,yourself.Philips is a well-known company,all over the world,so,finding a source in Canada shoudl be easy.These lamps are often used for Vertigo,Psoriasis and other skin problems,but also to keep vit.D on a healthy level,during winter.

          One advice (found this in one of their leaflets:you have to let those lamps “burn in”,first time,without exposing yourself to the light for ONE HOUR,because during the first hour of burning it emits some UV-A (unhealthy).And ALWAYS use good quality protection for your eyes;the ones they use in tanning salons,solariums.!

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 20, 2019 at 2:32 am

          I found one company that sends to Canada,and also sells all you need to make your own light screen in case you can’t find the right armature (you might help from a handy neighbour):


          The armature you need is for lamps with a Lampholder Base 2G11 Bracket.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 20, 2019 at 3:15 am

          Hi Lukasz,some more info on the NB UV-B lamps,and their effects (a canadian website :-)):


          They also sell user-ready equipment,and TL-tubes (Philips).Maybe you can choose for a TL-tube that fits in a regular armature;this will be a lot cheaper.Mine is a simple armature with a hammered aluminium reflector;I bought my lamps and armature as a set.

        • Lukasz September 20, 2019 at 1:32 pm

          Thanks for the links and info. I’ll dig through the sites to find the best one.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 20, 2019 at 1:47 pm

          Sounds like money is not the problem ;-)) Well,I payed about €250 for my set,back then,and for me,that was,and still is quite a bit of money, I have 2 tubes of 38 watts,each,and an armature.The comnbination is about 40-45 cm long,and 19-20 cm wide,and I do both sides of my body,in two sections. First the upper body,front,and back,and then the lower body,front and back.Distance from lamps is about 2 feet (minimum),and I start with 20 seconds (x 4).I slowly build this time up to 1 1/2 minutes (x 4).This all depends on lamp power,and.of course,distance.

          Don’t forhet to first give the lamp a “burn in” time of an hour,with no exposere to your skin,and be carefull;these lamps can give you a nasty sunburn,as does the sun.The difference lies in the UV concentration;one minute of extra exposer to your lamps will already cause a serieus sunburn!

          Have a nice weekend,everybody!

  20. Dee September 17, 2019 at 6:16 am Reply

    Ok here goes. Fishing for feedback! I am 26 months out from being floxed, I have worked hard at healing. Slowly over the last two years I have gotten better and better. A week ago I honestly felt like I was 85-90 % healed! Then all of a sudden ( with no acute injury) I could not lift my left arm. My upper arm was in excruciating pain. I thought it feels like I tore something either in my shoulder or bicep?? I went to the Doctor who ordered an MRI which I am currently waiting on upon approval of my insurance. Soooo I don’t know if I tore something or it is some extreme attack of tendinitis?? Or who knows?? All I know is that I cannot lift my arm without incredible pain! Since that incident my pulsating tinnitus which was almost gone has increased again keeping me awake along with pain and some insomnia. I had terrible insomnia my first 1.5 years which has almost returned to normal. A lot of my inability to sleep now is the pain I’m experiencing and my tinnitus acting up. I have no appetite again (I lost 50 lbs initially). Gained most back. I have lost 10 lbs these past 4-5 days. My temperature control is a little whacky (sweating like heck while sleeping). I am starting to have head pressure again and feel like I’m on another planet. You all get the idea. Wow I am so extremely disappointed and frustrated. What did I do different? At 2 years out I stated to eat regular meat on occasion went I went out to eat. I always buy antibiotic free meat to eat at home. Am I just having a relapse? Did the pain I’m experiencing from this arm incident (which is substantial) by the way I won’t take NSAID and have taken 1 extra strength Tylenol here and there maybe 4-5 times which did nothing for my pain. Anyway, I am baffled as I didn’t even have any major muscle/skeletal problems from my initial floxing other then extreme fatigue, weakness and aching in my muscles and joints….nothing seemed to have torn. Any ideas on what is happening?? So distraught.

    • Don M September 17, 2019 at 7:17 am Reply

      Sounds to me like you have done something to the shoulder tendons. I have difficulty with both my shoulders as well as heavy duty peripheral nephropathy in my hands and feet. Let me apprise you of something. LIGHT THERAPY. COLD LASER. It is amazing how well it throttles pain …. for a period of time. And with no side or after effects. I won’t go into a lengthy dissertation about light therapy and cold laser here but there is a world of information about it on Google. Look into it and try it. Ebay and Amazon have the light bulbs and light panels for under $100 (bulbs at under $50) The hand held laser units are rather expensive. The ones that are effective run from $985 to $2,500. Cheaper lower powered ones are worthless. The one that I found (that equals the specs of the $2,500 one) is called Laser TRX.
      Over $1,100 here but look at Amazon. $985
      Expensive but painless operation, use it as often as you want, no after use side effects.
      I do like mine!

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 2:18 am Reply

        Thanks for this info,Don;very interesting (and an informative website).I’d surely want to try this device but it is way too expensive,for me;can’t afford it :-(( I hope to by a Sota Lightworks,soon;those seemed so expensive to me but after having seen your device,the Lightworks is,in fact,dirt cheap :-))

    • L September 17, 2019 at 10:40 am Reply

      First, glad you are refusing to take an NSAID. As for the arm/shoulder pain, I would wait and see what the mri suggests. Tendon damage can happen at any time. I had had immediate injury to my meniscus…however here I am over 4 years out, and the same thing happened with my shoulder. I did NOTHING to injure it and just woke up one morning with pain and couldn’t lift my arm above my head. I went to an ND who does prolozone injections (which I had gotten in my knees) and he uses ultrasound guided injections, which showed a number of tears.

      As for the tinnitus I too got that “gift” among my 30+ side effects. It has never gone away. Just different periods of loudness. I don’t think any of this is necessarily related to anything you have done. IT just seems to go in cycles, perhaps as the body is fighting it off.

    • Madge Hirsch September 18, 2019 at 3:02 am Reply

      Hi Dee- sounds like rotator cuff tendonitis. I suffer fron this regularly in both shoukders. My first attack in the left came in 2011 ,12!!!!years after a Cipro exposure.
      It came on gradually and took 9 months to resolve. I do not think I injured it . Since then I have had 2 more exposures to Cipro and semi permanent pain in my right shoulder that came on after pruning clematis 3 years ago. Some days it is very difficult to put my hair up. It is really discouraging when relapses occur. I am 4 years out now and earlier this year really thought things were improving. Then I had a relapse starting mid June and still going on. This has happened so many times I sometimes wonder if it will ever end. Try massaging it with arnica gel or magnesium oil.

  21. Don M September 17, 2019 at 6:43 am Reply

    My observation. Is it a bit biased? Yup! At age 85 and after dealing with doctors for the past years (and trying to believe them) I am a bit biased. After they request all the tests etc. There diagnosis and treatment is based on their opinion. That opinion is formed by using SWAG. What is SWAG? SWAG is commonly known as Scientific Wild Ass Guess. Anyone agree? Yes …… I am floxed and have the typical problem of no one believing it. Doctors do not like someone coming into their office with a self diagnosis.

    • Lukasz September 17, 2019 at 9:25 am Reply

      SWAG. lol. Good one, Don, and so very true!

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 17, 2019 at 10:14 am Reply

      Hi Don,using of the word SWAG might lead to confusion because this word,today,is very popular under boys and girls of the youngest generation,where it meens “Cool,Chill”. Well,I wouldn’t call my doc’s cool,or chill (but have a few other names for them,not to be used in descent company ;-))

      I do agree, that the new meaning you give to the word “Swag” is one,that pleases me,and because the word Swag is an old word,that changed it’s meaning more than once,in history,I now consider it to mean “Scientific Wild Ass Guess” for people of our generations,in particular for those with very bad experiences with “Modern Medicine” ,while meaning “Cool,Chill” for the young,and still naïve next generation :-)) Somehow,I miss the unlimited confidence in humanity, that I had as a child :-((

    • L September 17, 2019 at 10:47 am Reply

      I’m guessing we’re all pretty much in agreement on that, Don! I mostly avoid allopaths who are not functional/integrative these days, but sometimes you have no choice. Like ophthalmology. I went for a “third” opinion on some eye issues and when I explained what happened with the Cipro, I got the typical eye roll. One thing I mentioned was the link b/t cipro and retinal detachment. (more eye rolling) and he said “that’s pretty much been disproved.” I didn’t want to deal with it then, but when I got home I wrote a long letter and then attached a number of items including something about flq related disability, side effect, etc. Oh, and this. https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/medeffect-canada/safety-reviews/summary-safety-review-oral-fluoroquinolones-assessing-potential-risk-retinal.html

      • Lukasz September 17, 2019 at 3:51 pm Reply

        So both the Government of Canada and Health Canada acknowledge that “a potential link between the use of oral fluoroquinolones and retinal detachment could not be ruled out”. Their initial review on this matter was carried out back in 2013. That means they had ample time to remove these drugs from the market well before I was poisoned by them. Why the hell would I want to have retinal detachment occur? They had already known about this very serious risk, among many other serious risks. Why then were these drugs not removed? Why are they still being dished out today?

        All of them.

        • Lukasz September 17, 2019 at 3:56 pm

          Also, what the hell does “highlight(ing) the urgency to consult a health care professional if patients experienced vision problems during or following oral fluoroquinolone’s administration” do for people who already took the drugs?

          They’re already likely suffered the damage. Doesn’t it make more sense to not have the drug be available to the white coats? Maybe that would prevent retinal detachment cases from happening in the first place.

        • L September 17, 2019 at 4:54 pm

          I know…that really gets me. They say that about ANY side effects. OOOPS. Too late! Damage already done. Not a damn thing the doctor can do (that is if he/she even admits it was FROM the cipro)

        • L September 17, 2019 at 4:53 pm

          They will say it’s a “small” risk. Of course, we know their idea of “small.” (Kinda like how they use the term “rare.”)

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 2:08 am

          These FQ poisons are still on the market because tey are kind of a last resource; more and more pathogenic bacteria are getting resistant to other AB’s,and this will go on because farmers do NOT cut back on AB usage for getting their cattle to market quicker,and with less food;it safes them a lot of money and because other farmes act the same.

          Sensitive farmers would have to get a higher price per kilo to play even,and an even higher price to have a good profit.That’s why there are two markets: the high profit ones,with cattle on AB’s for faster weight gain,and the bio/organic market,where you pay a lot more for your meat,but is free of things like AB’s and grow-hormones.

          This is the reason why bacterial resistance still grows,at an alarming speed,and why doc’s are reluctant to cut back on FQ’s;for them,this class of AB’s is the one that (still) really works.And,there’s some pushing on them,by FQ producers,too,of course.Don’t forget;although many are harmed by FQ’s (it’s NOT rare!),most of them,including their doctors,don’t see a link with FQ’s because the symptoms occure long after the B course has ended,weeks,months,or even years! That’s why FQ’s,by most,are seen as very safe antibiotics.

          And this,often used argument:”What’s worse:retinal detachment,or death by some serious infection?” And then they give you Cipro,for a suspected UTI.

        • Lukasz September 18, 2019 at 11:51 am

          I thought the resistance factor is a result of physicians over-prescribing antibiotics on patients? That’s what I’ve read many times and head about from many sources. You could be very well be right about the cattle being a factor in all this but according to many in the natural health circles, the main cause of antibiotic-resistance is due to MDs overusing them. Either way, I’d rather suffer death than be poisoned by an antibiotic again.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 12:13 pm

          I’ve read that 75-80 % of all antibiotics is used in livestock farming.And the main reason is not for treatment of illnesses,or protection against illnesses,but because the cattle gain weigh in way less time,and with way less food,

          Because of the resistance problems the government asked the AB producers to advice farmers to only use B’s when medically needed,so,the producers sent all farmers a brochure,asking them to limit AB use,where possible,but,on the last page of that booklet,they pointed on the fact that use of AB’s is a good way to make more profit,because of the rapid weight gain.

          When I remember well,Dr.Mercola not only wrote articles about this,more than once,but his latest article on this was very recently.

        • Lukasz September 18, 2019 at 3:26 pm

          Thanks for sharing this info. Seems the welfare of animals and humans is secondary to profit, but that’s nothing new.

  22. Dee September 17, 2019 at 12:10 pm Reply

    L. Thanks for that info!! My shoulder just all of a sudden came on with no injury at all too! I hadn’t had any tendon issues that I know of for 26 months so it really took me by surprise!! How long had you been floxed when you had your shoulder go out?? How long did it take to heal after you treated it with injections and did you get your full strength back? Did the tears repair?? You are right…..I’m not making any assumptions about what kind of injury is going on until I get MRI! Maybe it is really bad tendinitis that is causing immense pain if that is possible?? Since some of my other symptoms are acting up I am considering this a flare up or relapse?? I just pray it is short lived especially since I am 26 months out. It just baffles my mind the FQ toxicity can bite you in the butt again after so much time going by?!!

    • L September 17, 2019 at 12:21 pm Reply

      4 1/2 years. The first injection to the back of the shoulder helped immensely and almost immediately. Could lift my arm up again. However the front has numerous tears and some other stuff going on. Had several injections but still having issues so I am seeing a an integrative ortho guy in a couple weeks.

    • Anna September 21, 2019 at 8:34 pm Reply

      I have all the same problems with ankles and shoulders flaring up and I am only 36 yrs old. Seriously, I think we are having an immune system response to the medicine, and probably had a predisposition to begin with an Auto Immune disease like arthritis . Most floxies were probably depleted in some nutrients or auto immune inclined to begin with, or just older and not able to repair as well. A sick , fok’d drug, preying on the weak.

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 23, 2019 at 2:02 am Reply

        Hi Anna,

        ” I think we are having an immune system response to the medicine, and probably had a predisposition to begin with an Auto Immune disease like arthritis .”

        I don’t agree with that,and can’t find any proof.

        “Most floxies were probably depleted in some nutrients”

        You might be right here. Many are wondering why so many people used FQ’s without any problems (yet),while other’s lives got devastated aftera few pill’s,sometimes,even after just óne pill.No hard evidence,yet,but a deficiency of magnesium,or Selenium is suspected to make it possible for FQ’s to cause this extreme damage in those FQ victims.

  23. Dee September 17, 2019 at 12:17 pm Reply

    L. Another question. When you had your knee or shoulder pain did you find any alternative to NSAIDs??

    • L September 17, 2019 at 12:22 pm Reply

      no, I basically just toughed it out. I tried a cbd cream but it wasn’t strong enough to do anything. Some may be.

      • Madge Hirsch September 18, 2019 at 3:21 am Reply

        I have used the cbd oil that is meant for oral ingestion on my knee when it is painful. It has helped.

      • Anna September 21, 2019 at 8:38 pm Reply

        I have tried 2 different CBDs, most potent, $200 per purchase, and both were a placebo cdb. Did nothing for stress, insomnia or pain. CBD is a hoax, it is like buying chamomile for pain relief.

        • L September 21, 2019 at 10:44 pm

          well, it’s not a hoax. It does work for some…just not everyone. And it depends very much on the source

        • Fred S September 22, 2019 at 11:47 am

          I have had good luck at this site. I take 45 mg before bed and fall asleep fast.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 17, 2019 at 12:32 pm Reply

      Dee,the only relativily save painkiller ,in the market,right now,is probably Paracetamole.It won’t take away all pain,but will,most of the time even bring harsh pain to an acceptable level.There are also CBD oil,and a few other,natural alternatives.If Paracetamole,on it’s own,is not working good enough,at the highest dose,then you might combine it with CBD oil,and other natural painkillers.

      I have quite good results with tendon- and joint pain,with my magnetic pulser,but a good one is expensive,although it’s possible to build a rather cheap,and still effective one for $30 -40.This magn. pulser,combined with Paracetamole has brought me through some very painfull situations,even a bladder infection,caused by a kidney stone that got stuck,while also having a double intestinal bleeding,of which one was,probably,infected as well.Hell of a pain,and high fever,but I managed to even sleep on only the safe Paracetamole of 3 grams/day.

      I don’t go for a 100% elimination of the pain but to just bring it to an acceptable level.Where tendons and joints are involved,the leftover pain will prevent you from putting too much force on them,and risking even worse damage while doing that.That’s why pain was “invented” during evolution.

      • Dee September 17, 2019 at 12:39 pm Reply

        Henk. Thanks for the info on the pain med! I’ve never heard of it?? Is it OTC or do you need a prescription? Like you, I am only interested in managing my pain and not eliminating it.

  24. Dee September 17, 2019 at 12:34 pm Reply

    Thanks L! I tried CBD cream too. Didn’t do a thing!! Took a Tylenol here and there but that didn’t really help either. I’m like you….just have to tough it out. Argh!!!!! You are lucky to live in So Cal where you have so many alternative Docs to choose from. I live in the Central Valley of CA and we are very limited to good Docs but especially alternative Docs!! I will try to remember to check back with you on what your new integrative ortho thinks about your shoulder. Hope he can help you!!

    • L September 17, 2019 at 12:58 pm Reply

      well sadly my integrative MD stopped taking insurance so if I don’t see an ND, I have to drive over an hour to see a new integrative MD

  25. Dee September 17, 2019 at 1:04 pm Reply

    L. It is very sad that our insurance companies cannot recognize the value of functional medicine or naturopathic medicine!! They actually would save money in the big picture because people would be healthier!!

    • L September 17, 2019 at 1:26 pm Reply

      It’s insane. I wrote mine and told them how they could save so much. I pointed out that the tests (blood tests, MRI, ect) and doctors I saw (12) were tens of thousands of dollars, and aI am one of MILLIONS…so basically, “do the math.” And my RX insurance is so bad that it is actually cheaper to just order my prescriptions (one of only two) from Canada!

  26. Dee September 17, 2019 at 1:08 pm Reply

    Henk, I looked up paracetamol and it is actually the exact same product as Tylenol here in the states so it is OTC!! I have taken 1 pill at a time but if I experience the excruciating pain again I will try 2 pills which is the full dose.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 1:47 am Reply

      There are records that show Tylenol works a bit better,and longer when used in combi with a bit of cafeine.

      Renner B, Clarke G, Grattan T, Beisel A, Mueller C, Werner U, Kobal G, Brune K (juni 2007). Coffeine accelerates absorption and enhances the analgesic effect of acetaminophen

      It can be combined with Aspirin,and a few other painkillers,if really needed.But my opinion is,that combining medicines is not a good idea,because of the lack on safety research.Why,making a lab of your own body?

  27. Dee September 17, 2019 at 4:08 pm Reply

    L. So do you think after 2 years of no tendon tears that all of a sudden tendons start tearing?? Or maybe my left shoulder/bicep was already experiencing small tears from the. beginning of floxing? I’m sure you may not have that answer but now I’m starting to worry if something else is going to give out after 26 months? I’ve been walking, doing yardwork, housework and lifting things up and down within reason. God I hope nothing else goes? I was hoping I was mostly past that point!?

    • L September 17, 2019 at 5:02 pm Reply

      No way to tell how this happens, but I do know that it can happen much past the date you took the toxins. For me, with my knees for example, I didn’t know right away I had torn meniscus. I had some popping, and then within a couple weeks it hurt to go up and down stairs (started taking elevators for the first time). Then about a year out, when I was finally able to go on walks again after my myriad cipro side effects, I was walking downhill and one knee just blew out under me. I had to “walk” (and I use that term loosely) another 3 blocks or so to get home. It was horrendous. I could only just barely touch on the ball of the foot on the bad leg. So I hobbled back, and then used a Charlie Chaplin cane I had from one Halloween…and used that until I got the prolozone injection. Out of curiousity then I also get an mri on the other knee and sure enough, even though I wasn’t currently having any issues with it, the meniscus was torn in that one as well. As for my shoulder…who knows. I wasn’t haven’t any issues with it, but it is certainly possible that the little tears had just gotten bigger until it started causing problems. I really think there is no way to tell at this point if it is cipro related. Although it is odd that I had done nothing that would have injured it.

      • Fred S September 17, 2019 at 5:07 pm Reply

        Anyone try this for pain ?

        • Don M September 17, 2019 at 6:12 pm

          I have and other than rather expensive as far as I am concerned the jury is still out.
          I think it did help some. The only way to know if it helps you is to try it.

        • Fred S September 17, 2019 at 6:17 pm

          Thanks, Don

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 3:07 am

          “Anyone try this for pain ?

          It looks like quackery,it sounds like quackery,it even smells like quackery,so it is….

  28. Dee September 17, 2019 at 5:52 pm Reply

    L. Hmmmm thanks for the feedback. I’m just scared this is the beginning of tendon tears or issues. Haven’t even had my MRI yet but I can’t imagine I would have this pain without tears causing it? I guess I’m just scared. Scared more things could start falling apart. I hope not after all this time and able to do most everyday activities!! Fingers crossed! Thank you

    • L September 17, 2019 at 6:49 pm Reply

      Don’t be scared. Honestly out of all my myriad side effects, the knees were the easiest fix, with the prolozone. And If I need to go back and get more injections, I will. I worry about that the least now….

      Let us know what the MRIs reveal

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 3:19 am Reply

      Dee,I have tendon pains on an almost daily base,but they disappear,in hours,sometimes days,and seldom it lasts a few weeks.It’s easy to damage an already FQ-weakened tendon,and tendons heal very slow.They do so,in healthy people,as well.So,don’t panic,be easy on those hurting tendons and hope for the best.I’ve had hurting tendons all over my body,since I was floxed,three years ago (Archillea tendons being among the worst),but,untill now,no really teared ones.Knock on wood :-))

    • Madge Hirsch September 18, 2019 at 3:37 am Reply

      FQs cause tendon degeneration by attacking chondrocytes the cells that make up collagen. They also cause cartilage degeneration in joints and ribs. We have connective tissue that is dependent on renewal of these cells all over our bodies. Including our blood vessels ( aortic dissections) and eyes ( retinal and vitreous detatchments). Tendon cells have a slow turnover so it is not surprising that damage can show up much later. Since my first floxing in 1989/90 I have suffered on and off from tendonitis in various parts of my body but so far I have never had a serious tear- though probably lots of microtears. Before learning about floxing in 2015 I was not particularly careful either . Now I am more careful and bad pain is limiting. It is better not to take painkillers too much as the pain is a remainder not to overdo and risk further damage.

  29. Don M September 17, 2019 at 6:32 pm Reply

    PAIN………… I made a longer and more explanatory post earlier and it did not pass review so it disappeared. Most likely because it had more than one web site as a reference.
    Anyhow PAIN!!! What does one do to mitigate it? Google “Cold Laser Therapy” or “Light Therapy”. Used in other parts of the world for about 20 years. Now beginning to be recognized here. Naturally the drug companies do not want it to be known here in the US. It is totally noninvasive and it works. It works nearly immediately. I won’t go into more detail; here because there is plenty of information available on Google.
    I have plenty of aches and pains but do not use any ingested pain killers.
    Here is the hand held Cold Laser I use: https://www.lasertrx.com/
    There is a better price on Amazon.
    We will see if this one posts and stays on.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 3:24 am Reply

      Don,when you place more than one web link in a message,it is placed later,after a modurator control.Will take a while;Lisa is a busy woman :-))

    • Fred S September 18, 2019 at 4:25 am Reply

      Don – thanks. Are you happy with the way it performs?

      • Don M September 18, 2019 at 7:48 am Reply

        Fred S…… I assume you are referring to the cold laser unit. Yes I am very pleased with how it works. It will mitigate the pain in my shoulders in the 5 minute treatment that the unit is set to administer. It has an automatic timer that limits each time to 5 minutes. It can be restarted as many times as one wants. If one reads up on why light therapy works you find that? The red and infrared discharge of the unit excites the water in the cells and makes them more active. This causes more ATP to be produced and the blood flow is increased to the area too. Wound healing is enhanced by regular treatments. Also claimed is that it promotes the release of the body’s own natural pain fighting endorphins. Rather interesting how light therapy has been used around the world for years but is just now beginning to be noticed as a “for real” thing here in the US. The big problem is that a unit that is worth while is rather expensive. Worth while portable hand held units run from $1,000 to over $2,500. Office units run from $3,500 to over $6,000. There is a lot of cheap worthless junk on the market. A professionally administered treatment seems to only be available from Chiropractors and DO doctors. At an average cost of about $50. Seems that the MD world is still boycotting it.

        • Fred S September 18, 2019 at 3:11 pm

          Thanks, Don. Very Helpful. I may give it a try with a chiro to test drive – I want to use on my sore shoulder.

        • Don M September 19, 2019 at 8:01 am

          Fred S………. Look into a light bulb. Available on Amazon for under $40. The laser units are a concentrated light of “usually” two different wave lengths. The visible red light about 650 nano meters and the invisible infrared light at about 850 nano meters.
          The light concentration of a laser makes them work much quicker. The available bulbs and panels use the same two light spectrums but since they are not concentrated like a laser they work much slower. With a laser unit the treatment time is usually less than 10 minutes. With a bulb or light panel the treatment time is 30 minutes or more. Also the light from the bulbs and panels do not penetrate as deeply into the body. Light bulbs and panels seem to be more of the “spray ” effect and cover a larger area. The cost of a bulb is less than one visit to a doctor for a light treatment. Usually it takes about a half dozen light treatments to begin getting measurable lasting results. Buy your own and use it frequently. That’s the way it works best.

        • Fred S September 19, 2019 at 3:22 pm

          Thanks, Don. When you think about it, if I go with the Lasertrx unit @ ~ $1000 the payback vs Chiro treatments @ 50/treatment is ~ 20 treatments. I could easily go through 20 treatments in 1 month. Not bad when you think about it. My un-floxed wife could also use for her gimpy knee. Will let you know if I pull the trigger

  30. Dee September 17, 2019 at 6:58 pm Reply

    L Thanks for your help. I will try to think positive and not worry too much ❤️Will let you know about the MRI results. D

  31. selcem September 18, 2019 at 5:53 am Reply

    Hello friends,

    do you know any safe, clean without medications collagen product? I recently tried Ancient Nutrition multi collagen on advice from a friend but it somehow triggered tendon pains. I searched on web and found out some collagen products are containing steroid and other chemicals like antimicrobals/antibiotics.
    Check out this link http://taylorhooton.org/bone-broth-protein-tested-found-steroids-chemical-pesticides-pharmaceuticals/

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 18, 2019 at 6:44 am Reply

      Selcem,Dr. Mercola seems to have a high quality collagen product. And the best source might be ,making a soup,with collagen-rich bio-products,bones,bio-chicken (the skin!).

    • L September 18, 2019 at 10:07 am Reply

      I usually use either Vital Proteins or Garden of Life

      • selcem September 19, 2019 at 5:35 am Reply

        Hello L, I am also considering to try Vital Proteins. It is used by many floxies, so seems trustworthy.

        • L September 19, 2019 at 8:50 am

          I started using it a few years ago because of an endorsement I read by an online doctor I trusted (I keep thinking it was Dr Axe although he now has his own collagen powder) Anyhow I just kept buying it…the blue one

        • selcem September 20, 2019 at 12:28 am

          Thanks L, meanwhile can we use collagen everyday for months or years? I am trying to understand if notion of overdose for it

        • L September 20, 2019 at 9:56 am

          I think you can take it forever, and the dosage is on the package

  32. Dee September 18, 2019 at 6:40 am Reply

    Madge, thanks for your info. I still have not gotten my MRI yet to see if there are any tears or not as insurance is taking forever to approve it! I thought about it being a very bad rotator cuff tendinitis but it has been so painful to lift I thought maybe tears are involved? Was your tendinitis so bad that you were in pretty severe pain for a long time and not able to use that arm for an extended amount of time? It has been a week for me and I can lift my arm now 2-3 inches instead of not at all. Still in a lot of pain and cannot even out my hair up. Husband has to help me with shirt and putting ponytail in hair. It took you 9 months for you to have mobility again? Wow that kind of scares me! I am glad you didn’t have tears though but was wondering how severe the pain was with tendinitis? My pain in the beginning was so bad I think it brought on a relapse of some of my symptoms?? I hope your relapse starts to resolve real soon!! You might read Ruth’s 5.5 year update on her story. It should inspire you that you can still get much better!!

    • Madge Hirsch September 19, 2019 at 6:19 pm Reply

      No it took 9 months for the pain to go. I could lift my arm but it was painful and some days very painful. I had to get my husband to help me with my hair too and getting undressed . At the time I was teaching Indian dance ( Bharatanatyam ) and I could not hold any of the arm positions on that side. I decided to retire! The problem in my right shoulder now has been there on and off for maybe 3 years. I also tore something behind my left knee just standing up on the pedals getting off a motorbike. It was 9 months before I could go downstairs without going one step at a time and nearly 2 years later I still have to be careful. But I am 67 now and tendons do naturally stiffen and shrink as you get older. I never had an MRI so I don’t know id there were tears. I did have some acupunture but am not sure it helped a lot.

  33. Dee September 18, 2019 at 7:02 am Reply

    Henk. Interesting that Tylenol does better with caffeine. I would try it but I had to quit my beloved coffee ( which I miss dearly) as my first several months of floxing I had horrible insomnia, anxiety and adrenal fatigue. I don’t feel totally healed from all of that yet although much improved. Boy do I miss my coffee!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 19, 2019 at 3:10 am Reply

      Hi Dee, EVERYTHING goes better with coffee ;-)) Well,I couldn’t drink any coffee,after my first AB course (Metronidazol+Amoxicillin),and again,after the second one,12 years later (Cipro).But after a few weeks I started with just one little sip of coffee,directly after dinner,and slowly worked my way up to the one double espresso,I drink now,after dinner,from freshly ground high quality espresso beans.

      A year later,or so,I added a second double espresso,later in the afternoon,with no problems at all,but,untill now,I most of the time limit myself to the one,right after dinner.

      When you want to give it a try,combine the Tylenol and the sip of coffee,and take both right after dinner,or another good meal.Taking painkillers on a filled stomach is better for your stomach,anyway.

  34. Hans September 19, 2019 at 2:28 am Reply

    I wish everybody a quick recovery, here is a very good resource that can help you:


  35. Henk Noordhuizen September 19, 2019 at 2:56 am Reply

    I don’t trust that web link,Hans (or is it “Hans” ?) send us.I put his email right into the trash folder.I’m convinced it’s a scam!

    Anyone gave it a try? Please,inform us,but,better:don’t try,at all!

  36. Dee September 19, 2019 at 9:01 am Reply

    L. Do you feel the vital Proteins collagen has helped rebuild and strengthen your tendons? Any issues with taking it?? I’m considering it! By the way I got my MRI on my shoulder yesterday. Waiting to hear back from my Doc (which may take awhile). Will keep you posted!

    • L September 19, 2019 at 9:35 am Reply

      To be honest, I just don’t know. I take it for “insurance,” because I think it couldn’t hurt. And no, no issues with it. I have a smoothie probably 5-7 days a week for lunch and I always throw it in there. Yes, will be interested to hear your mri results

  37. Dee September 19, 2019 at 10:07 am Reply

    L. Thanks! I will probably give it a try!

  38. Dee September 20, 2019 at 9:46 am Reply

    Madge. Well I’m sorry to hear it took both your shoulder and knee nine months to heal. That is a pretty long haul! It scares me some but the good news is your healed even though I know you probably have to be much more careful with your activity. I too am not a young duck as I am 63 so I’m sure my tendons are more fragile then a young person and of course that makes healing them a lot more difficult and SLOW. I had my MRI done and my Docs office called and said Doc wants me to come in so I am guessing the MRI showed some kind of tear or tears. I sure pray it is a minor tear and also pray that doesn’t mean the rest of my tendons are going to start to go at 26 months out!!??? I have been able to carry on with normal activities etc without much problem this past year so I hope this one shoulder is more or less a one time thing and not gave more tendons tear away. Maybe I had a small injury to this shoulder earlier in my recovery and it just finally gave away???? Wishful thinking!!??

    • Madge Hirsch September 20, 2019 at 1:36 pm Reply

      It’s hard to know . My left shoulder got better but my right one has not. Probably because I use it more. Some days it is worse than others. I’ve more or less resigned myself to being in pain as I don’t want to take painkillers but it can be depressing sometimes. At least I have not had bad neuropathy or CNS issues like a lot of people and I can eat normally. I am still mobile but picking things up off the floor can be a challenge!

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 20, 2019 at 1:59 pm Reply

        Madge,even a less powerfull painkiller can help. Becuse of the pain,your muscles will contract,which,on it’s own,will make things worse.With some help of,e.g. Paracetamol,/Tylenol,your muscles will relaxe,which hastens the recovery.Add a soft massage (promoting a good blood circulation) will help,when the Tyleonol has limited the pain,while,without the nTylenol,it would add to the pain and further contract your muscles.

        I have quite a lot of experience,here because I have a two sided hernia,and try to ignore the pain,most of the time.When it lasts too long,and I have important things to do,I use paracetamol,and most of the time,within one or two days,all pain has gone.Pain (partly) gone,then,cramped muscles gone,and then problem “gone”,that’s how it goes,for me,most of the time.The pain-“pause” is the secret.

        • Madge Hirsch September 22, 2019 at 11:18 am

          Thanks Henk. I do take Paracetamol from time to time if the pain is really getting me down. I have a PEMF mat which I use too. I am not sure it does much for the pain but it helps my sleep especially in the winter. During the summer I spend most of my time outside and sleep ok but dull winter days bring on insomnia. Lying on the mat in the afternoon seems to make me sleep better at night. 5 years ago we came off the bike when a tyre blew and I suffered bruised ribs . They were so painful I had to take Paracetamol for about 10 days just so as to be able to breathe without too much pain. Shortly afterwards I was hospitalised with my first attack of diverticulitis and given Cipro /Flagyl iv combo. I still wonder if all that Paracetamol contributed to the diverticulitis attack. So I am wary of it. Since then I have had 26cm of my colon removed but I still have some diverticular pouches on the transverse colon. The gastroenterologist said it is very rare for them to get infected but I don’t want to take any chances!

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 23, 2019 at 2:23 am

          Madge,I don’t think there’s a link between the diverticulitis and the paracetamol.Diverticulitis might be caused by our habit to eat 3 meals (quite a quantity of food,in one time),while our body is actually (still) built for small portions of food,frequently,from sunrise till sunset.

          I was floxed while I had a double intestinal bleeding,one of which was probably diverticulitis (they told me in the hospital),and at the same time a kidney stone was stuck halfway between my blader and the toilet,and had caused a severe bladder infection.I was in a hell of a pain,and had a fever (39,9 Celsius),so,when my doc told me she was gonna prescribe me an AB which she actually shouldn’t because that one (Cipro) might interact with a medicine I already had (Flecainide Acetaat).

          I should have refused,on the fact that there was that serious warning,she just received,but my brain didn’t work in an optimal way because of the pain and the fever,and she had phoned around with other “specialists” for 1/2 hour,and they,together,agreed that,when lowering the dose of the Flecainide to 50%,”it was worth trying”.The rest is history.Oh,both FQ’s,and the Flecainide contain Fluorid,and,for some unkown reason,sometimes “lose” it,after which the free Fluoride wrecks havoc in the whole body,no part or even a cell excluded. That’s how doctors “heal” people :-((

      • Don M September 20, 2019 at 5:11 pm Reply

        Madge……. Look into cold laser or light therapy for your painful shoulders. Google it for information. It is amazing how just the light therapy works to mitigate pain. I have a hand held cold laser unit … https://www.lasertrx.com/ … that I use several times a day all over my body for pain relief. The light therapy has been used world wide for over 20 years but is just now beginning to catch on here. Goes without saying that the drug companies hate the fact that a noninvasive thing like the right wave length of infrared light can mitigate pain and the drug companies lose the revenue from pain killers. For under $40 you can get an infrared light bulb from Amazon. It will work like the more expensive laser units but the light bulb takes much longer for each treatment. Laser units concentrate the light into a small area so they are more powerful and work quicker. Light bulbs and light panels cover a larger area so they are much slower to do their work. It is a painless, noninvasive way to relieve pain and unlike pills you can use it over and over again as often as you want. Try it.

        • Madge Hirsch September 22, 2019 at 11:30 am

          I am not sure I could buy such a device here in France. I have thought about the infra red heat lamps and I have a heating pad which is supposed to be infra red . The problem is it does get hot and with the heat waves we have had this summer it has not been possible to use it! The link you posted gives no info about the cost of this device.

  39. Henk Noordhuizen September 21, 2019 at 1:07 am Reply
  40. Henk Noordhuizen September 21, 2019 at 1:31 am Reply

    For people who want to experiment with sounds:


    There are sounds for a better sleep (Ping Noise),against anxiety (Binaural Beats),and lots more.Want to sleep well? Download a program,like Audacity (free),which has a build-in noise generator,and create your own Pink Noise CD,or put a PN track on your MP3 player. The Binaural Beats are quite interesting,as wel but are not yet generated by Audacity,as far as I know.There are CD’s of Binaural Beats,some,mixed with sounds of nature,but making one,yourself,is sóóó much more fun :-))

  41. Henk Noordhuizen September 21, 2019 at 1:33 am Reply

    Sorry;forgot the link to the Audacity website:


    Have fun,sleep well,and have a nice weekend! :-))

  42. Henk Noordhuizen September 21, 2019 at 2:25 am Reply

    It is possible to make Binaural Beats with Audacity;I found this instruction webpage:


    For those who start experimenting with this technique,please,tell us about your experiences.

    I just remembered that I bough a Brain Machine,some 20 years ago,and pulled it out of the closet.As far as I remember,there are several programs among the 22 (+ 2 customisable progs),where Binaural Beats are used.I will give this a try,in the next few weeks;I remember it did quite a good job on relaxing,back then,but I put it in the closet because I did a course of Transcendental Meditation in 1998,and didn’t want to mix up those two methods.

    For the curious ones,among you,other Floxies: my “machine” is the Novag Mind Activator,model Holiday.It has both a headphone and “glasses” with leds on the inside,and a connection for an external audio device (to mix in your favorite audio sounds,e.g. a natural sounds recording).And a german manual;I just found the english manual on the web (reading german is,for me,as easy as english,or dutch (my first language)).

    I even found a website who sells them,for F 349,- Yes;the price is in gulden’s (guilder’s?),and the last time this webpage was updated was 14 juli1998 ;-)) There’s a telephone number,so,I might give them a call ;-))

  43. Henk Noordhuizen September 21, 2019 at 4:16 am Reply

    And here’s a free (open source) program,with which you can generate Binauural Beat’s:


  44. Henk Noordhuizen September 21, 2019 at 4:17 am Reply

    And a video tutorial on how to do that:

  45. Lukasz September 21, 2019 at 2:31 pm Reply

    Well, it turns out that I can’t even have organic beef. It didn’t take long before an unpleasant feeling came over me. I don’t know if it’s because I haven’t had beef in so long and my body is treating it as a foreign substance or just the fact that I can’t have any meat enter my body, even all this time later. You would think being organic, it would be well tolerated, but no, not in this destroyed body.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 21, 2019 at 3:32 pm Reply

      Lukasz,when you eat meat,after not having eaten it for so long,and with a handicapt gut flora,it shouldn’t come as a suprise to you that you experience some unpleasant reactions. The fact that you haven’t eaten meat for so long probably contributes to those reactions;your body has to get used to meat,again,and your gut flora has to adapt to that “new” substance.

      That’s normal,and when you intend to eat meat,more often,in the future,you should beging with a small amount,and build up slowly;your intestines need to build up a sufficient amount of the bacteria to digest that meat.Will take time.

      • Lukasz September 21, 2019 at 5:11 pm Reply

        You’re probably right. Not sure if I’m going to continue down the road of meat consumption though. I didn’t even enjoy it as much as I thought I would which is rather strange since it had been a long time since I had it. Maybe I’m meant to leave it behind. If there’s anything I’ve learned over the past 5 years, it’s that my body doesn’t tolerate what it once used to tolerate and that I need to accept that as reality.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 22, 2019 at 3:01 am

          Lukasz, many floxies have problems with a changed taste;they complain that things taste different,or less intense.. Or you mighty have bought a lower quality piece of meat (not every cow tastes the same :-)),or,maybe,the overall quality of canadian meat has dropped over the last few years (which wouldn’t suprise me because here,in NL,this happens as well).

        • Lukasz September 22, 2019 at 9:52 am

          Probably all of the above. Either way, I’m not sure that I need beef in my life, organic or otherwise. I was going to have it for its’ vitamin D content but if it comes at a cost to my overall state, I’d rather not have it at all. They say its’ organic but I believe they could still be using various preservatives, no? All I know is that I felt off after having it and it lasted the entire day and night. This is enough to make me not want to have it again.

  46. Don M September 21, 2019 at 4:08 pm Reply

    I have said in a couple of previous post how good light therapy seemed to be in mitigating pain as well as helping to increase the ATP produced by the body. Light therapy is also very conducive to faster healing. This came across my Facebook feed and I find it interesting that now there has been a face mask made of the light therapy. https://dailydeal.viralpow.com/mask/dermaluminate/index.html?c1=jul2&sxid=h95kl601g756
    Do you suppose that light therapy would be beneficial in healing torn and weak tendons? I am certainly using it for the pain relief and in hopes that I am supporting my tendons with it.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 22, 2019 at 2:27 am Reply

      My first thoughts,visiting that Dermaluminate website:

      You come home,you look into the bedroom,and then you see this alien,laying on your bed….;-)) Well,it’s your wife,and your first thought might be: ” I knew it,I new it,I knew it all the time…;she’s a Shift-shaper.” ;-))

      Well,a quick look made clear how it works;it is the blue light.This has a disastrous effect on the eyes and after just a few sessions you can’t see your wrinkles anymore.Job done!

      In fact,this is note a joke! Blue led light is very bad for your eyes,in particular for the retina;check the Mercola website (ant the sources he used).This mask is a very bad idea.Today,light terapee is hot,and so many try to get rich of it,without even having enough knowledge in the field to create an optimal effective,and safe application.This is,probably,one of them.

      The page starts with the usual list of wellknown people.Actors,here,because we all know they want the best for their skin,and face.

      Then:”over 1.5 million units sold in United States alone” ,and,further down on the page,there are the reviews: almost TWENTY satisfied customers! WOW!

      But their dirtiest trick is this one:”Due to overwhelming demand, inventory has been going extremely fast. As of today, there are only a limited supply of Dermaluminate™ in stock and availability will be closing tonight! You can still buy one directly from the company’s website by clicking the button below.”

      And this one: “IMPORTANT: 50% Discount For Today Only!”

      And this one: “Inventory has been selling out quick and we have less than 80 units available. Use the link below to claim your exclusive deal.Claim Your 50% Off Special Offer Now.Offer ends on Sunday, September 22 at midnight.”

      These kind of websites should be totaly eliminated from the we!.

      Light therapee is a very recent and prommising technique,but this causes a gigantic flow of “Miracle”devices into the market.Most of those devices will hardly work for you,or not at all,and some will be outright risky to use.Be very aware of this:the web is a pitfall for naive,sometimes desperate buyers,and there are lots of predators,over there,waiting for them.Be aware,and try,not to become their next prey!

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 22, 2019 at 2:39 am Reply

      I ment: led light therapee is very recent.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 22, 2019 at 2:52 am Reply

      Forgot this,great,one: “Developed by a group of renowned scientists using the same technology used by NASA” Always works,and one of the most favorite claims ;-))

      I asked NASA,and they confirmed! All the oldfashioned lightbulbs in their vehicles are,by now,replaced by led lights! ;-))

  47. Fred S September 22, 2019 at 4:20 pm Reply

    Quick question – has anyone had any issues with wine and fluoride? My understanding is that grapes have a lot of fluoride and that the California wines have more than European wine. Also, not too many organic choices. Thanks

    • L September 22, 2019 at 6:46 pm Reply

      sadly most US wines, even organic have been found to have glyphosate/pesticides. I drink them only on very rare occasions. (and I don’t seem to have any problems.) Still, I get organic wines from Trader Joes that are from Italy or another country like that, that does not fluoridate their water. The fluoride gets into US wines both from the pesticides and from the fluoridated water. I was just happy to be able to drink wine again. I couldn’t for the first couple years.

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 23, 2019 at 1:38 am Reply

        L. how does the (fluoridated) water get into your amerian wines? Good wines are,in fact,pure vine juice,and yeast (most of the time added,but yeast also naturally excists on the skin of grapes).

        No water should ever be added to the juice,or the wine;it’s a SIN,and people who do so,go to HELL ;-))

        • L September 23, 2019 at 9:10 am

          while the fluoride is higher from the pesticide use, there is also necessarily some from the water used to grow them, which contains fluoride in most states in the US.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 23, 2019 at 9:53 am

          Don’t they use sources like ground water,pumped right out of the bottom,like here,in Europe? Or from streams?

        • L September 23, 2019 at 10:48 am

          I don’t know, but since all water is fluoridated, but even our groundwater would contain fluoride

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 23, 2019 at 11:31 am

          Groundwater is mainly rainwater,but will naturally contain a bit of Fluoride, depending on,how much Fluoride is present in the soil minerals.

      • Fred S September 23, 2019 at 4:31 am Reply

        Thank you, L

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 23, 2019 at 1:28 am Reply

      Fred,in the USA an insecticide (Cryoliet) is used on grapes.Cryoliet is high in Fluoride (in fact,it is a source for industrial Fluoride),and the Fluoride enters the plant,and the grapes and stays there for the entire plant- and fruit life,and ends up in the wine.I only drink Italian and french wines,and only on rare occasions,a few times a year.One glass a day,next glass on the next evening and the rest of the bottle is given to my neighbour’s wife.

      The drinking of these wines,only one,seldom two glasses,has given me no problems,so far.A bottle of beer,and sometimes a small glass of liquor,neither.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 23, 2019 at 1:30 am Reply

      Sorry: must be liqueur

      • Fred S September 23, 2019 at 4:32 am Reply

        Thanks, Henk

    • Anna September 23, 2019 at 5:50 am Reply

      I drink red wine, and plenty of it. I oly drink French and Italian wine, because the taste is superior, and I do not have any issues. American wines have always given me horrific hangovers, and heart palpitations the next day, even before floxing. I think European wines are a higher quality in general, and you can get a really good one for $15. I also believe super cheap wines are a problem. If you spend at least $15 on a European wine you avoid a lot of the poorer quality stuff. IMO – Total Wine and More and Bevmo are the best place for affordable European bottles.

  48. Fred S September 23, 2019 at 5:08 pm Reply

    Controversial topic- has anyone here received a flu shot since being floxed? If so, any side effects? I do it most years to prevent a nasty flu episode. Thanks

    • L September 23, 2019 at 5:26 pm Reply

      NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (:) sorry for yelling.) I used to get it religiously because of asthma, BUT a few things. First, both my ND and integrative ND advised me not to. Second, I would have advised myself the same thing because of all the toxic adjuvants they contain. Third, did you know that the more often you get the flu shot, the less effective it is? https://www.statnews.com/2015/11/11/flu-shots-reduce-effectiveness/

      The last two flu shots I got were followed by the flu and that was followed by pneumonia. Since I stopped getting the flu shot, 4 years ago, I have not had the flu. But I keep a “just in case” stash of OSCILLOCOCCINUM, oil of oregano, elderberry and C.

      • Fred S September 23, 2019 at 5:35 pm Reply

        Thanks, L. I am very skeptical of the big push to give everyone a flu shot especially given what my body has been through with the Cipro

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 24, 2019 at 3:10 am Reply

        A large group of doctors admitted that the flu shots don’t work,and statistics show,theyre right.But the national health commission ordered to give them to very young children,and old people,anyway,because they consider it un-ethical,(!!!) to Not give thim this risky,and NOT working vaccine!

        • L September 24, 2019 at 6:40 am

          Every tie I go to the pharmacy to get my thyroid meds or something ese, they always offer me the shot. Actually they say “have you gotten your flu shot yet?” (just assuming that everyone will get one.) I always so “no and I never again will.” Big pharma has everyone working for them!

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 24, 2019 at 3:07 am Reply

      A few years ago,a large group of doctors ,here,asked permission to STOP giving people a flu shot,because they DON’T work,and the DO have some serieus adverse reactions (some people die,caused by and shortly after they had this shot!).

      But the commission ordered to give them to very young children,and old people,anyway,because they consider it un-ethical,(!!!) to Not give thim this risky,and NOT working vaccine! What….????

      I haven’t had a vaccine shot since childhood and get an invitiation to come to my doc for this shot. And I have to send back the letter,with a NO,on it,for them to not order a shot for me.I never send back this letter;they should send you a letter,youd have to returne,when you do want the shot,not,when you don’t want it ! Spoken about un-ethical……

      Advice from Dr.Mercola: take care,for your vit. D, to be on a healthy level;this gives you at least as much protection agains the flu as the vaccine,even when,for once,they got the right virus in it,

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