Floxie Hope

Floxie.Hope.1800.72.dpi

This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa

 

 

 

23,231 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. selcem September 23, 2019 at 11:26 pm Reply

    Hello Henk, L,

    did you hear about or try Bioresonance? I went to a doctor yesterday only for interview and he offered me Bioresonance to get some measurements from body. The problem is he puts a chemotherapy drug bottle on machine and gives its frequency to body. I was afraid to try so for showing purpose he tried it on a nurse in same room. The problem is, somehow tingling started in handsi feet and headache with nausea. I know it is electromagnetic waves which may fill the room with poisonous frequency. I hope effects will disappear, please share your opinon if you know about it?

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 24, 2019 at 6:24 am Reply

      Hi Selcem, I have just one experience with this method;visiting a friend and his wife,for a few days,another guest had all her equipment with her,and offered me a free trial.All in all it took almost an hour,and after finishing the measurments,and prepairing her “drop’s” ; a liquid of water and a bit of alcohol,”energised in her “machine”,corresponding to what that equipment,and the PC program that accompanies the equipment (which cost her about € 10.000 !) had measured. I also got a diet,for 6 weeks,of what not to eat,and what only to eat once,every 4 days..

      I used those drops every day,and stricktly kept myself to het diet,for even longer than the advised 6 weeks,just to give this trial a 100% optimal chance to prove itself.To be honest;it didn’t do anything,at all.That lady was really friendly with me,and I knew that,when having such a session costs ca.€100 (I got it,for free,being a friend of a friend) ,and I hated to give her a mail,as promissed,and let her know that it didn’t work,at all.

      I think that the “science” behind it is quite fuzzy,and in fact it is a variation on the work of Royal Raymond Rife,a remarkable man. To be short:I don’t have much trust in Bioresonance;the theory might be quite interesting,but there are too much unknowns to make it a trustworthy method to treat health problems,for now.

      • selcem September 24, 2019 at 6:52 am Reply

        Thanks a lot Henk,

        it sounds me weird also without any blood tests or any other scientific measurements, they claim to find out root cause of problems. What scared me is the toxic chemotherapy drug they used as reference to send frequency to body. So, I understand you did not have it?
        I dont understand to idea to send more toxin to already sick body.

    • L September 24, 2019 at 6:28 am Reply

      Hi Selcem, I am afraid I have no knowledge on this subject. I just did a quick research and found some trustworthy sites that do us it as a diagnostic tool but I really can’t speak to its efficacy. As for the cancer agent used, was it put on or in you? I didn’t quite understand how that fit in to the whole thing.

      • selcem September 24, 2019 at 6:58 am Reply

        Hello L,

        cancer agent was in a small bottle and put on device. Device does not inject medicine to body but produce some electromagnetic signal with frequency of that drug (I did not understand that prt clearly). They say, this bad frequency reaction from body will reveal damage or issues we have. There was an electrot of device which was put on fingers of nurse.

        For sure I did not let them do to me. Doctor did it very shortyly to a nurse, but since it is electromagnetic signal, may radiate into the room. That’s my concern.

        Anyway, I am very much against this method, especially using some toxic cancer agents even for their frequency level only.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 24, 2019 at 7:20 am

          Selcem,it is not the machine that emits the chemo signal into the air. The theory behind the bioresonance is,that everything has it’s own frequency,and the machine can registrate this frequency,and can compare that to the frequency of something else.So;it is impossible to get influenced by the frequency of this substance,and there’s only the machine,measuring the substance,and comparing the measurement of it to the measurements of your body’s frequenties.Really,no need to worry (except for the money it costs you to get your “diagnose” ;-))

        • L September 24, 2019 at 7:39 am

          Again, I know nothing about this, but it reminds me a bit of muscle testing, where you hold something in one hand while someone tries to push your other one down. Sounds odd, but it is recommended by many reputable people, including one of the San Diego flq researchers. I agree with Henk…I don’t think you have anything to worry about as long as the chemo agent was not injected, or you didn’t actually have it touch your skin in any way.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 24, 2019 at 6:56 am Reply

      Forgot to mention: the EM energy of these devices is so low,that I seriously doubt you’d notice anything of it,at all.And the system doesn’t send any “energy” of that reference substance to your body,only compares the measurements of your body with those of the reference substance.No need to have any fear,there.

      • selcem September 24, 2019 at 7:00 am Reply

        thanks a lot Henk

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 24, 2019 at 7:21 am

          Don’t mention it :-))

  2. Don M September 24, 2019 at 5:42 am Reply

    Interesting article “How Fluoroquinolone Associate Disability (FQAD) Came To Be A Diagnosis” written by a litigation attorney. https://www.litigationandtrial.com/fluoroquinolone-associated-disability-fqad/

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 24, 2019 at 5:59 am Reply

      Hi,Don,thanks for that link;very interesting info,indeed. It’s astonishing,to see,how long the Farmafia can go on,poisoning the people,before our governments start taking actions.And when they do,they treat those criminals with “silk gloves”.

    • Don M September 24, 2019 at 6:22 am Reply

      If the FDA has finally recognized FQAD and come up with an official diagnosis, why is it that so many in the medical profession seem to know nothing about it? I was assigned a doctor by my HMO. Went to see him for my new patient “intake interview”. Interestingly it seems that a person does not “interview” a doctor for suitability. Evidently the insurance company thinks that if a doctor has MD or DO behind their name they are all capable professionals. I tried to tell this doctor about my problem with Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome. He said that he had “never heard of it”. His main interest during our visit was to line me out for a physical exam. Was he more interested in the $800 he could bill for the exam than learning about my problems? You decide. I moved on to choosing another doctor. The next doctor, when I tried explain Fluoroquinolone Toxicity to him, said he would look into it. At the follow up visit he never said a word about that he had investigated Fluoroquinolone Toxicity. He was more interested in getting me on blood pressure medication for what he considered high blood pressure. Apparently he was using some old guidelines because many different articles on the internet said that my blood pressure was OK for my age.
      I must tell this story too. I was chewed out by the insurance company for seeing a doctor before I contacted them and had them assign him/her. According to them one is not allowed to “interview” a doctor unless he/she is already assigned. Just play a little blind folded pin the tail on the donkey in selecting a doctor. Is it any wonder that the public’s faith in the medical system is shaken?

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 24, 2019 at 6:46 am Reply

        My doctor,before prescribing Cipro,told me that she just received a message that advised her,or even ordered her,to not prescribe it to patients,already using Flecainide.Then,after over 1/2 hour of phoning other “specialists” she lowered my dose of Flecainide with 50%,and gave me the Cipro.

        returning to her,a week later,I told her that I stopped taking the Cipro,after 2 days/4 tablets,and she got really angry on me,almost shouting that I had to finish the whole course of 7 days.Only,when I told her I stopped after consulting the weekend doctor,she dimmed down,but ashured me that she had never had any complaint about Cipro.Well,she just did (my complants),but didn’t take any notice,and didn’t registrate my adverse reactions.

        Remarkable: when she discovered that there was a new warning on Cipro,to not combine it with Flecainide,she got angry,as well (a doc that gets angry in the compagny of a patient?),and shouted that,if things would go on like that,she could as well stop,because it wouldn’t take long before she couldn’t prescribe anything at all,any more.This same doc,on me,telling her that I had an aversion to medication,she assured me that she was very reluctant about prescribing medicines,so.I had no reason to worry about that.This was my first talk with her,being my new doc.

        My conclusing: many doctors are as responsible as the Farmafia,in slowing down these processes of archiving adverse reactions and acting in a responsable way to this situation.Advisedly.The whole medical system is rotten to the bone,and this will not change,soon.

        • Don M September 24, 2019 at 7:24 am

          Henk……….. I sometimes wonder if most of the doctors are living in another world. Many seem to have the idea that they are some sort of God. One sure fact. Many are much more interested in the number of patients they can see in a day and how much money they are making than “YOUR” health and well being. These doctors have turned an honored profession into a ruse.

        • Anne Leenders September 30, 2019 at 6:54 am

          Hello Henk,
          I thought you at one time mentioned taking tamarind, did that help you?
          Is it fluoride that causes the problems after being floxed?
          And do you think sauna removes toxins from the body, including the fluoride?
          Thank you
          Anne

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 30, 2019 at 8:41 am

          Hi Anne,I did,indeed,mention Tamarind,which should,according to some research,remove Fluorid from the body,but it’s impossible to tell if it did cause any Fluorid excretion without any lab testing (stool and urine).And the ever changing condition of Floxie health,inherent of the damage in so many places and systems in the body,make it impossible to make usefull conclusions,based on how one feels.But I love the taste of Tamarind,anyway.

          Thanks for reminding me;I’m gonna do some shopping in my favorite Toko,on the other side of the city,to buy a winter stock of Tamarind before the start of winter. Should buy some fresh ginger,as well,and make my favorite winter drink:ginger syrop.When coming home,being cold to the bone,a nice cup of ginger (=some ginger syrop and the right amount of cooking hot water) will warm you up in a second :-))

        • Mary October 4, 2019 at 6:28 am

          Dumbass callous drs. Here is an item written by a benzo sufferer with her consent to send it here.

          RE Benzodiazepines their damage is comparable to fluoroquinolones.

          I no longer refer to these agents as “meds”. When you understand the method of action you may not either. Here is sort of the nutshell version of benzos method of action – or what they do: When ingested the substance attaches itself to GABA receptors. GABA (gamma-Aminobutyric acid) is a principle amino acid that the body creates and uses in order for us to experience a sense of calmness. It has other functions as well but we will just focus on this particular aspect of it. So let’s just use a car as an analogy. So GABA would be like the brakes in a car – it slows things down. We have another important principle amino acid called Glutamate. This amino acid is excitatory – it speeds things up. It acts like the gas pedal in our car example. So GABA is the brake pedal, and Glutamate is the gas pedal. When benzos attach to GABA receptors they force these receptors to remain wide open and an unnatural amount of GABA floods into the receptor. We experience this as the “calmness” that benzos “create”. It doesn’t take long at all for the body to recognize this is not normal and so the body will begin to make structural changes to compensate for the receptors being forced to stay open. It does this by killing off as many GABA receptors to maintain homeostasis. Our bodies can NOT stay alive in too relaxed of a state. So the body not only reduces these GABA receptors, it also begins to increase Glutamate receptors and so our Glutamate increases to unnatural levels. So the body has had to combat this foreign invader by rearranging structures that were actually created when you were just an embryo. They were never meant to be tampered with. So once the body has been forced to make these structural changes in order to keep the person alive, it settles there and the person must keep feeding the body the agent. When the agent is discontinued the person will experience the chaos that comes from having far too much excitatory Glutamate and not enough GABA to calm them down. When we very gradually begin removing the drug from the body, the body will move to begin to regrow these GABA receptors and reduce the Glutamate receptors in an effort to bring the whole thing back to its original structure – the way it was created. All of this rearranging to our central nervous system is actually considered an injury. Most of it is focused in our gut as that is where most of our GABA receptors are.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 4, 2019 at 9:58 am

          Hi Mary,the damage is,in fact,not the same,but the effect is almost as devastating.The main differance is that the damage of benzo’s is not permanent (FQ damage often is) ,although quiting benzo’s is a terrible experience,and many end up in the hospital with very hefty gut problems while kicking.

        • L October 4, 2019 at 10:45 am

          Just what I was going to say. And while I would NEVER put another fluoroquinolone into my body again, I have on a few occasions had a benzo (Xanax) for flying, with no issues. I was also given a benzo for a surgical procedure. Again, had zero issues. (and these were post floxing.)

    • L September 24, 2019 at 6:46 am Reply

      They wrote a good piece, but actually the FDA (and the drug companies) have known since the 1990s about the toxic side effects! “When the drug company wants to obtain FDA approval for a new prescription drug, the drug company gets to design and operate the clinical trials itself.” And there’s the rub. But this article also fails to point out that the FDA is riddled with former big pharma people, so sometimes the studies don’t even matter….

  3. Barbara Arnold September 24, 2019 at 6:12 am Reply

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  4. A.Coleman September 24, 2019 at 2:18 pm Reply

    Hello Floxies

    Sunday was my 4 year Floxiversary!! The day four years ago that all H.E. double toothpicks broke loose in my life. I awoke to misery and nearly total body collapse.

    4 years later and, while I can’t say I am healed, I am much, much better. Last week, Thursday I had the first day where I truly felt normal in the last 4 years. I am not ready to write a recovery story yet, but I fluctuate from days where I am about 90% healed to those where I am back to 98% of my old self. Given I crossed over the 50 year-old milestone during these last four years maybe that 98% is where I would be without the poison of fluoroquinolones.

    I have had lots of ups and downs over the last four years; but the long term picture has always been towards healing. For those of you just starting your journey know that you must measure time in months and probably in seasons. I have had five or six months over the last four years that were worse than the previous month; but only once have I had a season that was worse than the previous season during my recovery.

    I still battle many of the symptoms I experienced on day 1; but do have symptoms that have come and gone. All of my symptoms are currently manageable and my days just depend on how many symptoms act up any given day.

    What I still battle:
    – Minor neuropathy (most days it is completely gone others it bugs me a bit – I experience less than 5 days a month now)
    – Insomnia (I have been in a holding pattern with progression on this issue for the last year – but tend to get around 5 to 6 hours of sleep nightly and every now and then 8 or more)
    – Digestive issues (some days they are completely gone others I still have nausea and mild heartburn – it is about 70/30 split in favor of the completely normal now)
    – Fatigue (most of the time it is no longer an issue until late in the evening, if at all)
    – Head pressure / headaches (most days this is not an issue anymore – as this improved so too did the fatigue)
    – Anxiety (a new issue that only started a month ago; but is already receding).

    There are a few other little things, but they only show up once a month or so. When I get “good” days for all of the above issues I tend to feel like my old self. Even when I have “bad” days I can be a productive member of society and mostly enjoy life. I still tend to put off planning major activities, but have become the king of spontaniety.

    I truly believe that before my 5 year floxiversary I will be able to write a recovery story!

    Best of luck to all and stay positive. I know mine is not the longest road to recovery; but it is considerably longer than that for many people.

    • L September 24, 2019 at 2:38 pm Reply

      Yea! That’s great that you feel so recovered. Thanks for letting us all know. Onward and upward!

    • Don M September 24, 2019 at 6:49 pm Reply

      Just one question. How much of your healing do you attribute to treatment from a doctor?

      • A.Coleman September 25, 2019 at 6:37 am Reply

        Don,

        Almost none of my healing was due to a doctor’s efforts. Once I gave up on standard medicine and looked elsewhere I got some help. I found an acupuncturist who really helped the neuropathy and some of the digestive issues in the early days. She was very compassionate and served almost as much as a counselor too. I also found a great massage therapist who helped some joint issues I had.

        My integrative medicine specialist (the only western doctor who ever acknowledged the FQ damage) has tried really hard but never been able to help. She did get me on Vitamin D supplementation in the early days and discovered I am a C677T MTHFR mutant and need special forms of Vitamin B – both of those supplements helped.

        Overall the only thing that really, really helped was time; and an attitude that I would be better some day.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 25, 2019 at 2:22 am Reply

      Hi A.Coleman,it’s quite a while ago,that we heard from you.I’m happy,to hear that you’re doing fime (for a Floxie ;-)) and that you’ve seen much improvement,since. Like you,I see things going in the right direction,and have those nasty ups and downs.After two times having drunk a cup of tea (my manin daily drink),which caused a short,but hefty relapse,I quit it,but afer the improvements since then I’m considerin to give tea a new chance.

      Double vision has,mostly,gone,although it sometimes comes back.Not so severe as it was,and only for a few minutes.Yesterday I had terrible pain,and “stitches” in my right eye,again,but today they’re gone.

      Feeling tired,day after day is still there,and doing some work around,or in the house still exhausts me in an unhealthy way,feeling “sick”,and takes more time to recover,compared to my pre-floxed time.Tendons are still weak,and I still have (tendon?) pains and/or nerve pains,almost every day,hitting me on ever changing locations of my body.

      The most annoying symptom,in my experience,is the total lack of motivation to whatever activity,even the activities I love to do.Taking my bike,my cam,and some food and something to drink,and drive to the forrest for a long walk,making pictures and enjoying nature;this stopped after I had ever frequenter heart arrithmea and,in the end,was brought to the ER with severe arrithmea,twice in two weeks,in 2013.I quit the Losec,I used,since 1998,and the heart arithm. vanished (I don’t think I ow this to the med,they gave me;I had a severe magnesium defficiency).

      Well;it takes time to recover from this,and mentally something changed: you don’t trust your body (your heart) anymore,and it took quite a while to get that trust back.In fact,I still use that medication,they gave me,although it let me down,2 weeks after I started using it (fiirst time in ER);I think that the magnesium supplementation did his job.I started to get hope that I’d be feeling good enough,physically and mentally,to get back in the saddle and enjoy my bike trips and long forrest-walks,again,and then came the Cipro-nightmare,in september 2016.

      After 3 years,I am recovered quite a bit,and if it wasn’t for the strange summer,this year,I might have had my first trips since years,but much of the time the sky was grey,and the temperature low,and most of the sunny days were extremely hot;two “tastes”,and none of them suited for a Floxies first ride to the forrest,for a long walk.Maybe next year….

      I wish you all the luck in the world,and I hope your health proves to be stable,now,with no more relapses or new symptoms.Glad,to hear,the anxiety problem seems to be a short one,and I hope it will go away,to never come back!

    • selcem September 25, 2019 at 5:41 am Reply

      I am happy for you. Hope you will be back normal sooner than 1 year. May I ask you if you had tendon problems, like continuous weakness and pain in achilles? I really wonder if mithocondria damage can be recovered

      • A.Coleman September 25, 2019 at 6:49 am Reply

        Selcem,

        Most of my problems were nerve related. Neuropathy and digestive issues track back to nerves. Even the insomnia.

        I did develop a huge, marble sized, ball on my left achilles tendon but that has finally disappeared. I had other weird joint pain, but nothing nearly as severe as many floxies. Right now I am dealing with knee pain, but it is the same location in which I tore a meniscus prior to being floxed.

        My primary problem that was not nerve related was the head pressure / headaches. I am convinced due to a number of linked events that I had / still have a very small cerebral spinal fluid leak into my verterbral column. Lisa posted on this issue on the site a few years back. That issue was due to FQs weakening the dural layer of my brain as it eats at connective tissue everywhere.

        I do think the mitochondria can recover provided they weren’t all genetically altered by the FQs. And I think how old you are when you are floxed is a HUGE deal because the older you are the slower your mitochondria that are undamaged by the FQs are to reproduce and take over.

        That’s why the younger people who are affected tend to heal in a couple of years or less and those of us who are older can take five or more years to heal.

        • selcem September 25, 2019 at 6:57 am

          Thanks for your comments. I was 32 when floxed. It has been 1 year over it but still struggling with many symptoms. But in some terms I am better like less anxiety, insomnia and neuropathy. My major issues are intestinal problems which bring allergy, food intolerances and muscle,joint,tendon pains. I strongly believe many neurological symptoms are related to intestinal issues.

        • Krabiwi September 26, 2019 at 12:44 pm

          Congrats for your progressing rcovery, Coleman. I am too around 95% after 18 month post flox. Haven’t seen any doctor for 15 months. I also would say the first step for recovering is too avoid clueless doctors.

          “And I think how old you are when you are floxed is a HUGE deal because the older you are the slower your mitochondria that are undamaged by the FQs are to reproduce and take over.”

          Exactly, as well young people have a bigger stem cell pool which can jump in as spare cells. mtDNA deletions heal via mitophagy, this can be accelerated with fasting, sirtuines and high dosages of nicotinamide to increase NAD+ levels (which is in young people naturally higher and decrease by age). Meanwhile it’s important to avoid all kind of toxines, empty carbs and gain enough nutritions from which a body can create antioxidants to protect remainig wildtype mtDNA from getting oxidized by free radicals.

          That’s theoretical flox therapy in a nut shell.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 27, 2019 at 1:46 am

          Hi Krabiwi,please,give us some scientific sources for:

          “young people have a bigger stem cell pool which can jump in as spare cells”

          “mtDNA deletions heal via mitophagy, this can be accelerated with fasting, sirtuines and high dosages of nicotinamide to increase NAD+ levels”.

          “nutritions from which a body can create antioxidants” Aren’t the anti-oxidants already there,in healthy food? Never heard,or read,that your body has to make them but was convinced that the body could simply TAKE them from this food.Please,explain,and some scientific sources might be usefull.Thank you.

        • L September 27, 2019 at 7:08 am

          I don’t know about other antioxidants, but I know our bodies do make glutathione ( the “mother” of all antioxidants.) https://www.livestrong.com/article/363474-how-to-raise-glutathione-levels-in-your-body/

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 27, 2019 at 8:15 am

          Thanks,L.,but this is not excactly,what I would call,a scientific source.And it gives confusing info on Glutathione:

          “Glutathione is a powerful antioxidant created by your cells to fight destructive free radicals.”

          “To raise your glutathione levels, you want to increase your dietary consumption of glutathione and of the precursors to glutathione”

          In other words:your food is the main source of Glutathione,both “the real thing”,ánd the source of the precursors your body needs to make glutathione by itself.

          Both links to her sources on how to boost/increase Glutathione production don’t work.

        • L Livingston September 27, 2019 at 10:36 am

          Well I just clicked on the first thing that came up. I already knew our bodies made glutathione because I take NAC which hella it do that. If you do a search you will find a lot of info on it. I just didn’t have time

          Sent from my iPhone

          >

        • L September 27, 2019 at 11:27 am

          I already knew that our bodies produce glut. (I take NAC which is a precursor.)  I just picked the first thing I saw online because I didn’t have time. IF you do a search there is a ton of info on it.

        • L September 27, 2019 at 7:10 am
        • Krabiwi September 27, 2019 at 2:39 pm

          Hello together, of course there are lot’s of studies, just to name a few:

          Stem cells and aging:
          https://science.sciencemag.org/content/350/6265/1199/tab-figures-data
          https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Stem-cell-potential-declines-with-age-During-aging-tissue-specific-stem-cells-lose_fig2_50868389

          NAD+ and sirtuine mediated mitophagy:
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3365962/
          http://www.molcells.org/journal/PubReader.html?volume=40&number=7&spage=503

          Fasting mediated mitophagy:
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969632/
          https://www.fasebj.org/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.30.1_supplement.1015.1

          Nutritions and fatty as well as amino acids come usually with food and body builds antioxidant enzymes from it. GSH/GPx is the mother of antioxidants, others are superoxid dismutase (cofactors Cu, Zk, Mn), superoxide oxidase on inner mito membrane (cofactor Mg and that’s one reasons it’s that important) and catalase (cofactor Fe) and some others like Vitamin C/E etc.

          But under increased oxidative stress nutritional demand is higher than in a healthy body without mtDNA deletions (as nutritions get oxidized) and be hardly covered by food alone anymore. Moreover todays food is a black box, I have tables here which indicate that over the last 30 years vitamins and minerals of fruits and vegetables decreased by 30-50% due to industrial mass production overgrowing.

          I am pretty sure even if one is mostly recovered he has still lot’s of subacute mtDNA deletions which can turn symptomatic again due to unhealty lifestyle with lot’s of toxines and nutritional shortage over the months or years until a treshold of deletions is reached again.

          mtDNA deletions proliferate which is called “clonal expansion” and they can suppress wildtype mtDNA:

          https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1357272515000333

          That could be one reason for delayed toxiticy and relapses and together with mitophagy also symptome cycling. mtDNA deletions actually live as DNA copying themself and that’s a huge problem and a reason that it takes that long to recover. Basically a race between clonal expansion and mitophagy in each floxed cell.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 6:21 am

          Krabiwi,every posting with more than one link gets moderated by Lisa,and wilol take some more time to be placed.And indeed,breaking the list up in several postings will do the job,but the other solution is,just having a bit of patience;one or two days is the usual dely.

          Thanks for the info,and the compliment ;-))

        • Krabiwi September 30, 2019 at 9:45 am

          Hello together, looks like commets with too many links don’t show up. So I will split them.

          Of course there are lot’s of studies, just to name a few:

          Stem cells and aging:
          https://science.sciencemag.org/content/350/6265/1199/tab-figures-data
          https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Stem-cell-potential-declines-with-age-During-aging-tissue-specific-stem-cells-lose_fig2_50868389

        • Krabiwi September 30, 2019 at 11:33 am

          Hello together, my replies with sources are in moderation, I suppose because of too many links.

  5. Donald M Mowers September 25, 2019 at 12:56 pm Reply

    A bit of interesting reading https://www.courthousenews.com/doc-claims-bayerfalsified-cipro-data/?fbclid=IwAR2vfzJqBtzX7-Anxp8eLAc_5G5LdJfDzETpXZv5OL4WnBYk75nXAPnFn0Q
    Seems that an insider is speaking up about Bayer trying to mislead so it could reap big profits off Cipro.

    • L September 25, 2019 at 1:00 pm Reply

      well, no surprise there. They have know for decades how damaging these toxins are. I was appalled (but not surprised) at the FDA hearing where the Bayer Rep continued the charade that the good far outweighed the bad and that these are really not toxic. And that side effects are RARE.

      • Don M September 26, 2019 at 7:51 am Reply

        To L……. Interesting how being a “liar” seems to depend on who you are. In the world of big pharma there are NO lies only misinformation through omission. Politics seems to follow the same rule.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 26, 2019 at 8:55 am

          It’s not even called “misinformation”;they probably call it “typo’s” :-((

  6. Don M September 26, 2019 at 3:24 pm Reply

    Trivial but I must reply anyway. To quote a passage in the article. “One group that consistently turns out to draw the short end of the stick when it comes to influenza vaccine failures is the elderly. U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data have repeatedly demonstrated that the flu vaccine does not work for seniors”. I had to have a prescription for glucose test strips refilled and it was ordered by a different doctor. This meant that I had to listen to the instructions on use from the pharmacist. (Only been getting and using them for 20 years) During these instructions it seemed that the pharmacist was more interested in selling me a flue shot and pneumonia shot. I told him “NO” to both offers and he did not seem to happy with my answer.

    • Fred S September 26, 2019 at 4:44 pm Reply

      Thanks, Don and L. I will probably take a pass on the vaccine this year. Will encourage my wife to do so also.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 27, 2019 at 1:41 am Reply

      Don,vaccines fail in the very young ones,who’s immune system isn’t yet suited for the job of making antibodies.It fails in the elderly because their immune system abilities are limited by age,and it fails in the rest of the people,because,first of all,when their health is oké,they don’t need it (and all the risky adds),and second:when they got the virus type wrong,the immune system will have used lots of energy,making antibodies for the wrong virus,and will now be limited in fighting the one that really causes the problems.Here,the vaccin acts like a feigned attack.

      In short: flu vaccins only work for the people who make money with this snake oil;the docs,and the Farmafia.

      • Don M September 27, 2019 at 3:40 am Reply

        Henk…….. But yet the system pushes vaccines hard. You are right. It is profit based. Damn the good or bad it is all about profit. Seems that the entire system has switched from what is right and proper for the people to bleeding them for money through one ruse after another. And as I said earlier. It seems that misinformation or out and out lies is the order of the day now.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 27, 2019 at 4:49 am

          You’re 100% right,Don: this whole society is ruled by suckers,using the public only for getting more and more money and power.Lies are their favorit tools.Our prime minister even admitted,several times,that he uses lies on a regular base,”for the better good of the dutch people”.

          He gained power with the help of lies and false promises,but most of the dutch citizens seem to be brain-dead and I wouldn’t be suprised if these criminals would be in office,for years to come.Unless they all end up in prison;one after another party member proves to be criminal,in one way or another,and gets a crime punishment,forcing him/her to give up their seats in parlement.

          I’m talking about the extremely rightwinged liberals (calling themselfs social democrats;two words,two lies).They are destroying labour rights,handing our money and power to multinaltionals and our health to the Farmafia.Today,their newest crime was published: after the young girls,boys,too,will get the HPV vaccination,and the age is lowered from 13 to 9 years old.Remember;HPV is a sexually transmitable disease….

      • Barbara Arnold September 27, 2019 at 4:48 am Reply

        I don’t want to get in a debate about vaccines, but I used to get the flu every year, before and after I moved to Spain from the UK. Since having the vaccine before and after being floxed I have never once had the flu. That’s for the past10 years ???

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 27, 2019 at 4:53 am

          Barbara,might your move from the UK (one of the worst EU countries,when you want to keep your vit.D on a healthy level) to Spain (one of the best EU countries,when you want to keep your vit.D on a healthy level) play a role,here?

        • L September 27, 2019 at 7:13 am

          and I got the flu the last couple times I got the vaccine. luck of the draw

        • Sheila rogers September 27, 2019 at 12:06 pm

          I agree my experience with vaccines are as follows: my mom used to get pneumonia a lot working at the hospital they never cleaned their vents out regularly and she had to start getting the pneumonia shots every 5 year I think was what it was at the time and she never got pneumonia again…..for me being floxed my husband would bring home colds and flu all the time and the last time I got the flu it almost killed me I was so sick – I was nervous about the vaccine but took it cause anything would be better than what I had experienced…..even if it only had a 30% effectiveness like last year – and not once have I gotten the flu or even a cold and I don’t have any side effects except I got a bad bruise this time at the injection site……. I have no burning during injection, no sniffles nothing…….I know drug companies want profits but I also believe that vaccines are to help the majority of the public stay safe – history shows us that without vaccines there were serious outbreaks of epidemics that killed millions and maimed even more – yes drug companies are leeches but the actual vaccines are meant to help which history has shown they do, we’ve eradicated a lot of fatal diseases with vaccines.

      • Barbara Arnold September 27, 2019 at 8:05 am Reply

        Maybe Henk, but I got the flu in Spain at least Three times before I took the vaccine.

      • Barbara Arnold September 27, 2019 at 8:15 am Reply

        I was to frightened not to have it Henk as I got bronchitis before I was floxed and I literally couldn’t breathe. I did not want to ever experience that again, so that’s what made me take the shot. I also have never had bronchitis since. I’m not advocating it but thats my experience. It’s due again now, and I always have a dilema whether to have it or not. But I figured so far its worked for me with no side effects, so hopefully that will continue. Later after about the 3rd bout of bronchitis is when they gave me cipro. The rest is history.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 27, 2019 at 8:25 am

          Hi Barbara,I had bronchitis,as a child,and my mother had asthma,it was probably one of the causes of her death (the tons of medicines were another factor,in her,death).

          The best immunisation for flu is….living through a flu.In fact,vaccins mimic the flu,but with a killed or weakoned virus this should give a milder illness and equel protection.A remarkable fact: research of how many vaccinated vs unvaccinated people get the flu,here,in the Netherlands,showed that the percentage of people who got the flu,in that year,was even a little higher amont the vaccinated than under the unvaccinated.That was the reason for Dr’s to ask the government permission to stop giving their patients a flu shot.

        • Madge Hirsch September 28, 2019 at 3:44 pm

          I used to get a flu jab every year after 1999 as I have mild asthma and in 1999 I got flu and really bad bronchitis. I think I was also given Cipro along with Prednisone. In 2010 I had my flu jab as usual. That winter I was unwell all winter and now I think it provoked a floxing relapse. It was the first year they put the H1N1 strain into the seasonal jab. In autumn 2011 I got the jab as usual. In Feb 2012 I got the flu . I later found out online that the jab was so ineffective that year that those vaccinated were actually more likely to get the flu at the end of the season than the unvaccinated! That was my last jab. Since 2016 we have both taken NAC and kept our vit D level above 50ng/l. We have not only not had flu but not a single cold either.

      • Barbara Arnold September 27, 2019 at 8:40 am Reply

        That’s interesting Henk. I am however a bit sceptical of the poll of how many did or didn’t get it. Also isn’t the vaccine a dead vaccine, not a weakened one ? At the end of the day we all have to make our own decisions. I don’t take any other meds whatsoever, could that be a reason I’m okay with it ? There are so many variables, so its difficult to come to a 100% conclusion. So whether anyone decides to take it or not is up to them, because with the www now, they have a better informed choice.

        • Sheila rogers September 27, 2019 at 12:14 pm

          Here in the USA the flu vaccine is NOT a live virus I ask this every time I go to get mine. And taking the vaccine can give mild flu like symptoms for 48 hours which I have never ever had happen. I would wonder if those that took the vaccine and then reported those milder symptoms were included in the raised polling stats for those having taken the vaccine and got the flu plus one has to remember that the vaccine is for the previous years flu therefore any new strain of the flu will not be covered and you run the risk of contracting that new strain but that doesn’t mean the vaccine did not work for the strains that were actually in the vaccine, so if you get the flu after the shot then most likely you got the newest strain of the flu

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 2:34 am

          Hi Barbara,as far as I know,most modern flu vaccines are made from virus particles.And I think you’re right;for people with lung disseases the vaccine is probably a sensible choiche.For myself;I am convinced that vaccines can,at best,give a temporary immunity,while living through a disease,most of the time,gives immunity for life.

          Here’s a Mercola leaflet about vaccines,to help people make an informed choice.:

          http://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/Mini-Guide-to-Flu-&-Flu-Vaccines.pdf

        • L September 28, 2019 at 10:51 am

          I have asthma, which is why I used to get the vaccine religiously…but as previously pointed out, the more you get it, the less effective it becomes. I also got the flu twice after getting the vaccine (not right after, but during the season) and I have not gotten it since avoiding the vaccine 4 years ago. Too many unhealthy adjuvants, and not worth the paltry percentage of it possibly helping. I have worked hard to limit toxins and don’t want to start now. I take a lot of vitamin D, NAC, and I have things like zinc, elderberry, etc on hand. If I did feel like I was coming down with it, I would also likely go get a Myers IV. Speaking of vaccines, Dr Mercola has a free trial of the movie vaxxed, and I am 20 mintues in and livid. More lies from our so called “protective” agencies.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 11:35 am

          Vaxxed is indeed a very interesting and aducating docu.In my opinion it is an absolute must see,and the strongest argument against mandatory vaccination,we have today.

        • L September 28, 2019 at 12:04 pm

          those stories are SO heartbreaking. I am so sick of all the collusion and coverups between big pharma/fda/cdc, ad nauseum

      • Harriet Kay October 9, 2019 at 3:44 am Reply

        Henk
        Here’s the list of Conflicts of Interest: Conflict of Interest Disclosures: Dr Fusar-Poli reported receiving grants and personal fees from Lundbeck outside the submitted work. Dr Vieta reported receiving grants and serving as a consultant, advisor, or continuing medical education speaker for the following entities: AB-Biotics, Abbott, Allergan, Angelini, AstraZeneca, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Dainippon Sumitomo Pharma, Farmindustria, Ferrer, Forest Research Institute, Galenica, Gedeon Richter, GlaxoSmithKline, Janssen, Lundbeck, Otsuka, Pfizer, Roche, SAGE, Sanofi, Servier, Shire, Sunovion, Takeda, the Brain and Behaviour Foundation, CIBERSAM, the Seventh European Framework Programme and Horizon 2020, and the Stanley Medical Research Institute. Dr Young reported receiving grants and personal fees from Janssen; receiving personal fees from Lundbeck, Allegan, Sunovion, Livanova, Johnson & Johnson, and Bionomics outside the submitted work; being employed by King’s College London and and honorary consultant for SLaM (NHS United Kingdom); receiving fees for lectures and service on advisory boards for the following companies with drugs for affective and related disorders: AstraZeneca, Eli Lilly, Lundbeck, Sunovion, Servier, Livanova, Janssen, Allegan, and Bionomics; being a consultant to Johnson & Johnson and Livanova; not having share holdings in pharmaceutical companies; being lead investigator for the Embolden Study (AstraZeneca), BCI Neuroplasticity Study, and Aripiprazole Mania Study and participating in investigator-initiated studies from AstraZeneca, Eli Lilly, Lundbeck, Wyeth, and Janssen; and receiving past and present grant funding from the National Institute of Mental Health, Canadian Institutes of Health Research, National Alliance for Research on Schizophrenia and Depression, Stanley Medical Research Institute, Medical Research Council, Wellcome Trust, Royal College of Physicians, British Medical Association, Vancouver General Hospital and University of British Columbia Hospital Foundation, Western Economic Diversification Canada, Canadian Cancer Society Depression Research Fund, Michael Smith Foundation for Health Research, National Institute for Health Research (NIHR), and Janssen. Dr Correll reported receiving personal fees from Alkermes, Allergan, Angelini, Boehringer-Ingelheim, Gedeon Richter, Indivior, LB Pharma, Lundbeck, MedAvante-ProPhase, Merck, Neurocrine, Noven, Otsuka, Pfizer, Recordati, Rovi, Servier, Sumitomo Dainippon, Sunovion, and Supernus; receiving grants and personal fees from Janssen/Johnson & Johnson and Teva outside the submitted work; serving on a data safety monitoring board for Boehringer-Ingelheim, Lundbeck, Rovi, Supernus, and Teva; providing expert testimony for Bristol-Myers Squibb, Janssen, and Otsuka; receiving royalties from UpToDate and grant support from Janssen and Takeda; and being shareholder of LB Pharma. No other disclosures were reported.

        • L October 10, 2019 at 7:13 pm

          jeez (sadly I suspect this is far from rare)

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 11, 2019 at 3:18 am

          WOW,Harriet! Are you sure this is a complete list? Just kidding,of course it isn’t.

          Count in most,if not all doctors,who are rewarded for their prescriptions,in one way,or another.After payments,and gifts were forbidden,now,here (EU) doctors get a “refresher course”,several times a year.This course takes place in a very luxury conference resort,some of them in holiday resorts,in foreign countries like Thailand,and other popular holyday countries.

          During that week,they get education in prescribing medicines offlist, and other trics to make their prescription behaviour even more profittable,for both the industry and the doctor.This is,under the cover of being education,accepted by the same governments that have forbidden payments and gifts.

          Is the list complete,now? Guess,not.There are the doc’s and Prof’s that sign ghostwritten test reports for the next generation of “medicines”And the ghostwriters,themselves.Etc.,etc.This whole industry is rotten to the bone.And today,the Farmafia started to patent NATURAL REMEDIES,remedies that are used by the people,all over the world,for centuries,some even many millenea. It started with Cannabis (may be the most broadspectrum medicine menkind knows;cancer,epilepsia,Alzheimer,Parkinson,pain,and more,and this list still grows!Now you’ll understand why it’s forbidden!).In India thy”ve tried this,too,but the government has forbidden to patent any traditional remedy (for now).Their Ayurveda is one of the oldest medical systems in the world.

          This will only and when the people start,not asking,but DEMANDING their governments to fully legalise the use of natural remidies,by doctors,and,in stead of putting an enormous amount of (our!) money in the greedy hands of the Farmafia,use it for research on the safety and effectivity of natural cures.Research on the safety,or dangers of chemicals could change a lot,too,and it’s the government who has to order the industry,by cnaging the law,to test every chemical they want to put in the market,by an INDEPENDANT authority,with severe controle on conflicts of Interest on every employee.Otherwise this world will drawn in poisons.

  7. L September 27, 2019 at 11:37 am Reply

    I get emails called “floxed Friday” from a film maker who was herself floxed. I thought this was interesting, and the first I had heard it. “There are many reasons as to why people have floxed symptoms again. One reason, considered by Dr. Beatrice Golomb of UC San Diego, is that fluoroquinolones can stay in your cells, which die off after a certain time and when the cells die, they release parts of the FQ back into your system causing another reaction.” (Beatrice Golomb is the one at UCSD who has been studying fluoroquinolones, and if you have not yet participated in her ongoing study please do.)

  8. Dee September 27, 2019 at 3:11 pm Reply

    Fellow Floxies. So last week I wrote to you all letting you know my shoulder was in extreme pain and I was getting an MRI. Update; my MRI showed that I had 3 tears in my rotator cuff! I am unaware of any acute injury that took place. My upper arm just started getting sore for a few days and then wham!!! The pain hit me like a ton of bricks!! Excruciating pain!! My Doc and ortho said I needed surgery to repair the tears since they partially tore from the bone. I am currently seeking out a second ortho opinion before I rush into surgery. Here is my concern and fear. I am 27 months out from being floxed and now all of a sudden after 2 years of walking, housework, gardening and lifting reasonable weight I blow out a rotator cuff?? Can the Cipro have weakened my tendons that much and now this far out it is tearing? Are the rest of my tendons falling apart too?? Should I worry about everything falling apart at the seams after all this time?? I definitely had a flareup in my symptoms when my shoulder started to be in extreme pain and I feel like the rest of my joints are weak and achy. Luckily the pain has subsided quite a bit over the last week. I am scared of surgery as far as going under anesthesia and being on antibiotic during the surgery. I am scared of the rest of my tendons blowing out. I felt like I was healed 85/90% and this just turned me upside down with worry!! Anybody know much about rotator cuff tears and injury?? Do you think the rest of my tendons are extremely fragile?? Maybe this was an injury that started happening awhile back and I was unaware of it and it just finally gave away? That is my hope! I am scared to get surgery but I don’t want to end up with a complete tear down the road and cause a bigger problem!! Feeling worried and scared right now

    • L September 27, 2019 at 4:09 pm Reply

      Hey Dee…we seem to be on the same path. I went to an Ortho dr today because of pain in my shoulder and I had not done anything to it. Actually it has been going on for about 5 months. I had gone to one of my NDs who does prolozone, and after the first injection to the back of the shoulder I was able to life my arm up for the first time. IT was great. So then he did some injections into the front of the shoulder which showed on an ultrasound that it had lots of little tears. Unfortunately I did not have the same luck that I did with the back of my shoulder or my knees.

      So today I went to this ortho guy and I purposely chose him since he does PRP and stems so I figured he was more integrative. Not really though. I brought my usual information sheets on flq toxicity and he said he didn’t need them because he was already very familiar with it. But then he said “I rarely use it…only in emergencies.” I thought ‘you’re any orthopedic surgeon…you should NEVER have to use it since it’s for life/death.”

      Anyhow the first thing he wanted was xrays. I declined. I wlll get an MRI in a couple weeks. (Longer wait for the open one. Can’t do the enclosed.” He did some physical testing and said my strength was good but I think he did mention rotator cuff. He said it may have nothing to do with the cipro (I am 4.5 years out) —that as people age they see more and more of this. IT just wears out. Not sure what I will do when I get the results since I do not want to do surgery.

      As for the surgery, I don’t think you need to worry about the anesthetics so much as any antibiotics they want to give you (one of the main reasons I don’t want surgery.) I will wait and see what this dr says and then find another and another until I find a nonsurgical alternative.

      RE the two doctors you have seen…do either offer other procedure besides surgery, that are more integrative, like stem cells or PRP? If not ,then they are likely not aware of such things. I am not saying that they would be appropriate in your case, but it would be something to investigate. So what I would do is a search to see if you can locate an integrative sports medicine doctor. If nothing comes up, just go to different websites of sports medicine doctors in your area and check them out to see what procedures they offer (and check reviews on the doctors… vitals, healthgrades, ratemds…you may actually find someone who had your condition who was treated by that particular dr. If tears are your ONLY issue, even prolozone injections may work. I am afraid with mine, that there is a structural issue as well, which is why the prolozone worked great on the back, and not so much in the front….Don’t panic yet!

      • Don M September 28, 2019 at 8:36 am Reply

        I learned about Cold Laser therapy a while back. I have been using one of the units daily and it does make a big difference in my shoulder discomfort. Both shoulders have been affected by being floxed. Research cold laser. It is non invasive, painless and it works. Biggest draw back is that having it done by a professional is expensive and a hand held home unit that is worth while is also expensive.

    • Susan September 28, 2019 at 7:32 am Reply

      I had the same problem with my shoulder about a year after being “floxed”. I didn’t have surgery. It took about 6 months to heal. I did my own physical therapy after not using the arm much I had “frozen shoulder” that the exercises helped with. I then got tennis elbow from lifting a vacuum cleaner in my work. Both Achilles’ tendons are sore when I get up after sitting for 1/2 hour. NAC supplements and organic sulfur crystals (msm) are doing wonders for detoxing.

      • L September 28, 2019 at 10:55 am Reply

        NAC is amazing stuff. It is a precursor to glutathione, the body’s mother of antioxidants. It helps with asthma, by thinning mucus. It is supposed to help in building up your immune system to help prevent the flu and colds. It helps the liver detox.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 11:37 am

          Another excellent mucus thinner is Plantago tea.

        • L September 28, 2019 at 12:07 pm

          never heard of it…will look it up (probably something I can’t get here) I read great thinkgs the other day about blackberry leaf tea. No stores have it, and none of the places I order from have it…

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 12:47 pm

          I have the two most common varieties in my garden,the Plantago Major,in my backgarden,grew there,already,and the Plantago lanceolata in my front garden,which I planted from seeds that I collected in the wild.Most of the time,I just buy the tea,and use my own plants for muscito bites,and mix it with vegetables,and herbs when I make fresh juice.

          Plantago tea is not hard to find here.Usually from bio-organic sources,and from the Plantago lanceolata variety,and quite cheap.No need to pick and dry my own leaves,also I sometimes do.

        • Anne Leenders September 30, 2019 at 7:08 am

          Hi there,
          Does anyone know a way to test your glutathione levels?
          Thanks
          Anne

        • L September 30, 2019 at 8:58 am

          I have read that at this time there is no accurate way to test these levels currently. But if you are concerned, you might want to try supplementing with NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) which is a precursor to glutathione.

    • Madge Hirsch September 28, 2019 at 4:07 pm Reply

      If your shoulder is improving you could maybe hold off on making the decision about surgery. As I said in an earlier post I got rotator cuff tendonitis in my left shoulder that lasted 9 months then just got better. I did not have an MRI so I don’t know if there were tears or not. But it was 11 years after an exposure to Cipro! But as I said to Barbara I think the flu jabs I had caused a relapse. I am now 4 years out from my last exposure and have constant pain in one tendon or another. But it could be due to being 67! I would not panic . It might get better by itself and your other tendons might be fine. Just be careful and don’t ignore twinges.

  9. Dee September 27, 2019 at 4:31 pm Reply

    L. Thanks for your input!! I hope that your shoulder MRI doesn’t show any significant years. I know one of my tears is a SLAP tear which is where the socket is. I guess surgery is usually the best option for that kind of tear?? Hence I am seeking out the second ortho opinion because my first one offered no other options. This other ortho I’m going to see is evidently more wholistic……so hopefully may suggest other options? Because I am 63 I figure it could be due to age and ongoing degeneration which I can accept better then Cipro!!!! What is PRP???

  10. Dee September 28, 2019 at 7:38 am Reply

    L. Thanks for the PRP site. It looks like a really good method to help tendon healing!! This second ortho I am suppose to see (don’t know when?) supposedly does this method as a friend of mine said his daughter had it done by him in her knee. I guess it really helped! It will be interesting if he feels it is right for my situation or I will need surgery for the type of tear I have? I am concerned about thr anesthesia as some contain fluoride and I wouldn’t want it to trigger another flareup besides the fear of antibiotic during surgery? I really hate living in this fear of medications! In normal circumstances I would just get the dang surgery and move on without too much worry. I do wonder if we are over paranoid to getting procedures that we should normally breeze through? Are we really that sensitive to antibiotics (other then FQs), NSAIDS, steroids etc after 2-3 years from being floxed? I feel like I live in constant fear of everything? How much do we really know about floxies reacting to meds post flox many months later? This is a scary way to live! I might have to roll the dice and get surgery?? There are those floxies that have had to go through surgeries to repair severely torn tendons etc and seem to fair through it? This is all so confusing to me!??

    • L September 28, 2019 at 11:03 am Reply

      well I just refuse to ever take another steroid. Not only because I was made so much worse by getting prednisone at the same time as the cipro, but I have since talked to a doctor who said that steroids (like an injection) literally destroy everything in their path. I guess that’s why there is immediate relief! As for NSAIDS, I took them decades ago, but not in the years prior to this, so no big deal. I do worry about the fluoride, so I always ask ahead of time exactly which medications will be used, including anesthetics, so I can research them. Since the Cipro poisoning I have had dental anesthetics twice; anesthetics for two different sinus procedures and one for a skin thing…so at least five times that I can think of, and zero issues.

    • Madge Hirsch September 28, 2019 at 4:12 pm Reply

      I had major bowel surgery last year and sailed through it. I have also had Augmentin for 14 days after my last exposure to Cipro and was ok.

      • joanneb4 September 28, 2019 at 6:13 pm Reply

        Has anyone taken the antibiotic cephalexin generic for keflex and had any issues? What about antihistamines like zyrtec? My dermatologist wants me to take a salicylic acid shampoo I have horrible seborrheic dermatitis on face and scalp and chest. Can we take that? Head and shoulders didn’t help. Anyone ever take that one? I’m allergic to coconut oil and tea tree oil.

        Thanks
        Jo Anne

        • L September 28, 2019 at 6:21 pm

          don’t know about the antibiotic but I had zero problems with antihistamines. In fact, one thing that can happen to floxies is histamine intolerance, so antihistamines are one of the things that help

        • Sheila rogers September 28, 2019 at 8:13 pm

          I’ve taken cephalexin and Keflex without any extra issues and I take Claritin which I have stopped because it does nothing to help my sinus issue but I have taken Benadryl without any issues too.

        • joanneb4 September 28, 2019 at 9:45 pm

          I took zyrtec and think it bothered me. I thought it was the keflex so I stopped it for a day then restarted it but got super bloated so had to stop it again. I’m so worried about that now. Bacteria resistance having started and stopped then started then stopped. I had a bee sting doctor thought was cellulitis. Swelling has gone down. I took total 6 keflex. But the the zyrtec made my heart race and retain urine and gave me headaches and eye pressure. I am on klonopin 2 mg a day and think that is a huge part of my problem plus doctors keep trying antidepressants on me I take them and get bad reactions and stop. I took Prozac and Luvox both had fluorine. I also drink decaf Starbucks with almond milk and worry about their water and ice having fluoride. I drink spring water at work it must have fluoride too. I used soft soap couple weeks ago it had sodium salicylate. Dermatologist wants me to take salicylic acid shampoo for seborrheic dermatitis. It’s all over scalp, face, back and chest, I don’t know which shampoo to use haven’t washed hair in two weeks. I don’t sweat anymore, I have blepharitis in eyes oil glands clogged. Feel like all my oil glands on body are plugged. Yeast. Think antibiotic may have made it worse and lasted anticholergenic antidepressant did too. I overheated and pores can’t release heat. I’ve messed up too much. Just wanted CBD oil. May be allergic to coconut. Supposed to get tested this week.

          Jo Anne

        • L September 28, 2019 at 10:08 pm

          I think you are a) doing things that are not healthy and b) blaming things that are likely not culprits. You said “I also drink decaf Starbucks with almond milk and worry about their water and ice having fluoride. I drink spring water at work it must have fluoride too. I used soft soap couple weeks ago it had sodium salicylate.” First, decaf, unless it is done the right way, is less healthy than regular coffee. Second, I would not be going to Starbucks. Their coffee is not organic, their water likely has fluoride, so of course would the ice… Actual spring water has naturally occurring fluoride which I would not worry about.

          If you are on klonopin, I think you’ve found your problem. I seriously doubt it was the Zyrtec. Klonopin is a benzo, and other than occasional one-time use, like to get through a procedure, is something you most definitely do NOT want to be staying on.

          You said you used Soft Soap. Well don’t. There are plenty of healthy soaps out there to use that do not have artificial fragrances and other chemicals…although again, if you used it once some place because that is all they had, I seriously doubt that would be a problem.

          Being floxed is tough especially when people don’t believe you. But sometimes I think perhaps you are just putting us all on. You keep coming up with so many different things that you think are somehow effecting you. All I can say it…clean up your diet; don’t add more drugs to the problem; find yourself a good integrative MD; and use the computer to do some research first before using something that you think might have harmful side effects.

        • joanneb4 September 28, 2019 at 10:20 pm

          I struggle with finding a soap I can use. I am allergic to many preservatives. I can’t find a shampoo to use. Can we use salicylic acid in shampoo? I have severe histamine intolerance and multiple chemical sensitivity supposed to be getting allergy tested for coconut and Shea and others. Do you think I can’t sweat due to the benzos or from fluoride/fluorine exposure, NSAIDS in past and steroid in eyes once and steroid in scalp once?

          Jo Anne

        • L September 28, 2019 at 10:09 pm

          I’m curious Sheila, if you had sinus issues before the cipro…and if you did, if they have changed at all post cipro.

  11. Don M September 28, 2019 at 8:26 am Reply

    I just finished reading and copying an article (copied it off to Word and it ended up as 13 pages long) about a “small”study done on Fluoroquinolone Toxicity by a private organization. But they used some very high tech equipment. Very interesting study. Some technical stuff but in general what the findings were and in layman’s terms. https://www.academia.edu/7562596/Fluoroquinolone_Toxicity_-_Human_DNA-adduct_Findings
    Tends to lay credence to my assertion that once floxed the “poison” never leaves the body completely. One can have remission of their terrible problems but it seems that the toxins may live deep in the cells of the host body indefinitely.
    I know I have previously been admonished for my assertion that once floxed you may harbor the effects of the toxins for life. Everyone to their opinion but if you REALLY look into the available research my assertion is not all that wrong.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 9:16 am Reply

      I’ve pointed to this publication,quite a while ago,and got the same reaction.Sombody even wrote that Joseph King isn’t an academic,at all. I think it’s too hard to swallow,for many,that a 100% recovery from FQ-poisoning possibly is impossible,especcially for the older Floxies. I think the outcome might vary,depending on age,health at the moment of being floxed,and the FQ,used (Cipro being the worst of all,I guess.But hey;it’s Bayer,here,which has a long history of poisoning people).

      • L September 28, 2019 at 11:09 am Reply

        AHA. Yes, Lisa posted that he was discredited.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 11:43 am

          He was discredited,but the used arguments were not very convincing (to me,anyway).Better read the document,before desciding whether,or not to throw it out of the window.

      • L September 28, 2019 at 6:07 pm Reply

        Ok, so here are my thoughts, having read it. First, I absolutely agree when he says “The patient has been poisoned, cellular damage has occurred in response to a toxic reaction.” But I have a few questions/ concerns. First, it is a very tiny sample of 5 people. Second, it only ran 3 years. I would be curious to have them retested now. Third, are the variables. He does mention genetic mutations in some (all? can’t remember.)

        But he also makes the statement that one would know if one had a genetic mutation. That is absolutely untrue. If someone has the mutation for MTHFR where they cannot assimilate folic acid…how on earth would someone know? I have a genetic mutation that makes me more likely to have a blood clot than the average person. There is NO way I would have known until my doctor did a broad genetic testing panel. My point is that these were people that did have genetic mutations, like the p450 that necessarily effects how you process drugs. And it is a given now that ANYONE could be downed by these toxins, given enough of them. As it turns out, I had been given both cipro and levaquin in the past, with no apparent problems (although they may have already been working their “magic.”) So who knows if those that are finally poisoned by these, who have no genetic mutations, have the same DNA breaks? He also lists finding carbolic acid, a poison, and links it to cipro…but I can find nothing that says Cipro contains carbolic acid. (But guess what does? Flu shots!)

        So, I am not saying I don’t buy any of it…only that I think it is incomplete.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 29, 2019 at 9:46 am

          L.,first of all:I think that the term “genetic mutations” is misleading:I prefer to call it “genetic variations”.

          The team that did this research,under coördination of Joseph King,focused on the DNA-Adduction,caused by FQ’s.Their findings motivated them to do an urgent call for Phase-II Testing and Funding Untill now,no such testing has been done (as far as I know).One might expect a more adequate reaction,after the EMA hearing,last year,and the growing list of Black Box warnings by the FDA.

          Here is an older article,written by Lisa and published on Laleva.org,with a summery of interesting FQ research,and findings:

          http://www.laleva.org/eng/2013/12/how_pharmaceuticals_came_to_be_the_4th_leading_cause_of_death_in_america.html

        • L September 29, 2019 at 11:37 am

          I’m kind of “read out” . maybe I will get to that later. The thing about King though, is I don’t know WHY he was discredited. Is it possible he didn’t follow certain protocols? Fudged findings? I mean I just don’t know.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 29, 2019 at 12:12 pm

          Here’s another post of Joe/Joseph King you might want to read:

          https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzLMHZg5q0Y3US1pNVBVc21ubVk/edit

          He writes he is a former toxicologist,but proof of this claim is hard to find.

        • L September 29, 2019 at 1:35 pm

          I don’t want to read the last thing —so you give me MORE to read? 🙂 Why are you punishing me? Seriously though, Lisa is far better at scientific writings, perhaps she will weigh in on this …. My mind is mush right now. I just have a hard time believing that someone can make that claim about “never” repairing. I think It is an unknown. The only way to truly know would be to go back and revisit the same subjects 30 or 40 years later.

          Some people claim that ALL of your cells are damaged. Yet my ND, my well-respected integrative internist, as well as DR Ron Hansen, who treats floxies with stems, ALL say that stem cells are different, and they do NOT incur the same damage, which is why you can use your own stem cells. I would have to agree, since I was damaged head to toe, multiple systems, multiple organs, and I only had stems from my own blood, which is really the least effective source (in addition to many nutrient IVs) and yet as bad as I was, I am probably 90-something percent better. And yet there are others that would swear that even your stems are damaged. I am just saying, I think what he claims is not provable at this point.

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 29, 2019 at 2:45 pm

          L.don’t get angry on me;just put those articles on your “to read” list,when you think they might be usefull. By the way;one of those two articles IS written by Lisa (the one on laleva.org).

          J.King doesn’t claim his view is a definite one,but urges for more research,as does the team he coördinated.There are still so much unknowns,and that the industry,is unwilling to do research on the damage,is a crime in itself!.

        • L September 29, 2019 at 4:22 pm

          I’m not angry…hence the smiley face. I was kidding you. I just have scientific research fatigue. I’ll take a look at what Lisa wrote

        • L September 29, 2019 at 4:24 pm

          didn’t see anything from Lisa in the link you posted…just stuff in Italian

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 6:14 am

          l.I checked the links and they work alright.No Italian…

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 29, 2019 at 12:14 pm
        • L September 29, 2019 at 1:38 pm

          Yikes, 30 days intravenous! And you know Dr Chas Bennett requested that the FDA add on the warning of mitochondrial damage….and they refused. Bastards.

    • L September 28, 2019 at 11:08 am Reply

      Haven’t looked at I…don’t trust the “download with google” but not sure I would use the word “forever.” As pointed out by a flq researcher, they suspect that the relapses can be caused by the damaged cells dying off (a good thing!) and releasing some of the toxin. I believe that at some point they all die off…just no telling how long that will take. Of course there are things that can be permanent, eg nerve damage, or something destroyed by the toxin like vision changes, destached retina, etc. But that is different than saying it remains in your body forever.

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 11:39 am Reply

        L.You don’t have to download it;scroll a bit downwards,and there is the entire document,for you,to read :-))

        • L September 28, 2019 at 12:09 pm

          aha! my computer has been running slow. took a while for it to “appear” thanks

        • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 12:50 pm

          After having read it,please,tell us what you think of it.

          Have a nice sunday,everybody :-))

    • Lisa September 29, 2019 at 7:04 pm Reply

      I trust Joe King about as far as I can throw him – i.e. not at all. I think that he’s a fraud and a scam-artist. I don’t trust anything that he wrote in his “article” and I don’t think that he has any qualifications to call himself a toxicologist.

      There are many indications that his “study” was neither scientific nor rigorous. It claims that it took a “random” sample of victims of fluoroquinolone toxicity. I can name every person in the “random” sample. It’s NOT random. The words “random sample” mean something, and to purposely misuse them at least indicates that the person writing the “study” doesn’t know what he is doing. He also claims that he has a control group that has never been exposed to ANY pharmaceuticals. Who did he test? Newborns? To claim that he has a control group that is complete pharma virgins is ridiculous. Also note that the news story didn’t highlight him as a toxicologist. They would have if he was. He’s not.

      My biggest problem with the guy is that he stole the hope of fluoroquinolone toxicity victims. He convinced people that they were permanently damaged on a DNA level and released a paper that is full of errors and possibly fraud.

      I despise the man and all the harm he did to this community. Luckily, most of the harm was a while ago, and most of it has been forgotten.

      Sorry for responding so negatively when I so rarely respond to anything. I care about and appreciate all of you. You guys are wonderful people – thoughtful, caring, supportive, etc. If you need anything from me, you know how to reach me (through the contact link if you don’t already have my direct email – and I’m actually decent about responding to those).

      -Lisa

      • L September 29, 2019 at 8:01 pm Reply

        Thank you! Like I said, I had problems with his sample size as well as other aspects of the “study,” and I am so glad that you did too. I also hate that he has “stolen hope.” It ain’t over til it’s over.

  12. Dee September 28, 2019 at 12:11 pm Reply

    So what about the Floxie report that stated after testing certain markers in the blood (I can’t remember what the test was) that they felt the FQ was out of your cells 95% after 6 years?? Also the same test indicated it was 75% gone after 3 years?? I kind of go along with L and probably a lot of it is wishful and hopeful thinking that an FQ should not stet in your cells forever. That is pretty darn discouraging and it just seems pretty far fetched to remain forever? I do believe the damage it creates could be forever?

    • Don M September 28, 2019 at 1:03 pm Reply

      If the damage is done and you must live with it the rest of your life it makes little difference whether the Fluoroquinolone is in your system for just a period of time or for ever. It is appearing that eventually the cells that contain the poison will die off. The question is will the replacement cells be tainted with the altered DNA?

      • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 1:10 pm Reply

        When cells,containing FQ’s,or free Fluoride,die off,this means that these FQ’s are,again,active in your system and might cause more damage. Untill now,however,this is still theoratical;let’s wait for more research before stearting to worry,while,hopefully,there’s no need to do so.

    • Henk Noordhuizen September 28, 2019 at 1:05 pm Reply

      Dee,the human body has a remarkable ability to repair damage,but this was created during an evolution that took milions of years,and is only focussed on damage from trauma’s and of natural substances,nót from chemical and synthetic poisons that only excist since a few centuries.Much of the damage from FQ’s concerns DNA,mtDNA and mitochondria,which makes repair extremely difficult,if not impossible.Bayer and others could hardly have done a better job,if their goal would have been to destroy human health,large scale,and with little,if any hope for a 100% recovery.

      So,best thing is to aim for the best,possible recovery and acceptation of remaining damage and the ever lurking chance of a (temperary) relapse,every now and then.Focus on the good things,and happy moments they didn’t take from you.

      • Krabiwi September 30, 2019 at 9:42 am Reply

        Very well said and summarized Henk. Amen to that.

  13. D September 29, 2019 at 6:49 am Reply

    JoAnne, how long have you been floxed?? How much FQ did you take? Are your flox symptoms all sensitivity type or are you having other symptoms too???

    • joanneb4 September 29, 2019 at 7:44 am Reply

      I took 5 Cipro Feb 2015 while on benzos. I had to take antibiotics for SIBO. Then was put on Flagyl then took herbal antibiotics weaned off klonopin was off for a year then got kidney infection took 1 macrobid felt like cirpo Jan 2016. Continued herbal antibiotics. Then took Xifaxan for SIBO and went back on klonopin Dec 2016 when probably just had histamine issues but GI dr wouldn’t test for SIBO had endoscopy with lidocaine I was allergic to anaesthesia that had fluorine and CT scan with contrast and path of destruction underway. Saw psychiatrists took Prozac Luvox both fluorine had nerve biopsy they used lidocaine and steroid GI dr put me on Protonix had fluorine drank fluoride water filtered from tap endless bloodwork and back on benzos to stay sane. My gut is ruined and nerve damage and brain damage and kidney damage I’m sure adrenals shot. All my arterienes are narrowed. Feel like stroke and heart attack anytime.

      Jo Anne

  14. Dee September 29, 2019 at 7:01 am Reply

    Madge, thanks for your feedback on my shoulder. I actually was hoping I was only dealing with tendinitis but the MRI showed what is called a SLAP tear along with a couple of others which is at the socket area. I guess surgery is usually called for since you don’t want the tear getting bigger or worse at your socket? Still waiting on second opinion. If ortho tells me the surgery is best I probably will have to take that route against my wishes. ☹️ Did you always experience tendinitis from your onset of floxing or did it come on later like 2-3 years after???

    • L September 29, 2019 at 11:17 am Reply

      well it appears there are a couple different kinds of slap tears. According to this site, physical therapy is an option. I would just wait to get a second opionion….or even third. https://www.shoulder-pain-explained.com/SLAP-tear.html

    • Madge Hirsch September 29, 2019 at 3:58 pm Reply

      I only found out about floxing in 2015 after being given Cipro for a suspected UTI. However I had had it in an iv combo with Flagyl in 2014 for diverticulitis . I then looked back over my health and became convinced I had been given it in 1999 and 1989. Why? Because in 1989 I was given antibiotics for sinusitis and immediately after developed Achilles tendonitis. I remember clearly going to the physio and being tortured when she frictioned the tendon. Over the next few months and years I developed various health problems- terrible back pain, knee pain , plantar fascitis , hypothyroidism, nausea, breast pain .In 1999 I developed rib pain and neck pain. All of these waxed and waned. The back and knees did improve a Iot between 1993 and 1999 . I also developed dry eyes , blurred vision in the morning and severe coccyx pain after 1999. Within 24 hrs on the iv drip in 2014 I had pain in my right Achilles tendon but I never connected it with the antibiotic . After 48 hours I had neuropathy in both arms and some arrythmia and Cipro was stopped though nobody told me it was that that had caused it! In 2015 I took one capsule of Cipro and within an hour experienced a visual reaction ( like my brain was not receiving visual signals properly) that I remembered from the year before. I looked it up and took no more! I did get some pain even after the one capsule in my Achilles for a day or so. But all my floxing symptoms have come in cycles waxing and waning. I have not had plantar fascitis for a couple of years now but that does not mean it will not come back . My rib pain is not too bad now but it has gone away and come back countless times before. Only recently I was thinking about how my pins and needles had gone away and last night they came in my left breast! I have not experieced a steady improvement -always relapses. I really hope you can get your shoulder sorted without have to have an op. Tendons do mend themselves. My left rotator cuff was really painful for months then became slightly less painful and suddenly I noticed it did not hurt anymore. But I never recovered full movement in it. I could not hold the arm above my head in one of the dance arm positions as well as before.

  15. D September 29, 2019 at 8:51 am Reply

    Joanne. Wow that is a lot of different meds over a few years!! Did the 5 pills of Cipro hit you really hard with symptoms or do you think they evolved from some of the other meds that you took post Cipro?? My thinking is to try to wean yourself all these meds and begin the task of eating healthy organic foods, clean spring water, and minimal chemicals in products you use. I’m wondering if the combination of all those different meds just took a toll on you? Was it the initial Cipro that gave you all these problems or the evolution of taking additional meds?? Another words did you have all these symptoms take place right after the Cipro?? I think you need to work towards being medication free!??

    • joanneb4 September 29, 2019 at 11:41 am Reply

      It was really horrendous after taking the 5 Cipro. But all the meds trying to deal with the effects it did to me exasperated it. I became more and more sensitive to chemicals and killed my gut microbiome which has led to so many skin issues and histamine problems with food as well as chemicals I don’t know how to get back to normal. I regret starting and stopping the antibiotics they just gave me it helped but inactive ingredients have gotten to me too. I ate one Greek yogurt and that was worse than the antibiotic. I don’t know what the answer is.

      Jo Anne

      • L September 29, 2019 at 1:20 pm Reply

        You need to find an ND or an integrative doctor. There is just too much here that you don’t know how to deal with. You can do yourself a big favor by a) starting on a good probiotic with multiple strains and billions of units b) in addition to avoiding fluoride, avoid GMOs, and try to eat organic when possible, but especially the “top 12” (see EWG) like berries which are pesticide sponges; avoid dairy and soy and any meats that may have antibiotics in them. Your diet should be mostly vegetable, with some fruits. The gut is linked to SO many issues. Until you fix that, everything will be a problem.

        You need to avoid ALL prescriptions at this point, except for ones you really need, like say for thyroid or heart conditions. You may need to wean off of some so not to encounter side effects.

        Like I said, there is just SO much here. I encourage you to get help with it.

  16. Dee September 29, 2019 at 12:53 pm Reply

    L. Yes I have read different things about SLAP tears and I do know I have a Type 2 which means it has actually torn away from the bone. It cannot reattach itself. I am getting a second opinion and may even opt for a third. At this point in time I am just confused!! I know I don’t want a worse injury down the road so will see what the orthos think about potential damage down the road if not repaired. I don’t want a bigger tear then I have now??

  17. Fred S September 29, 2019 at 3:17 pm Reply

    Hi – I am considering an IV with glutathione (among other things) but have read about issues if you have amalgam fillings. Also, someone recently mentioned issues with Lipoic acid with amalgam fillings. Any experience in this area? Also, I am 6 weeks out and the head fog, head aches and exhaustion have pretty much gone away. The only remaining issues are joint pain (if I exercise too much), dry eyes (but better) and some insomnia (but a big improvement with CBD oil and a mag chaser). Do I really need an IV is that is the case? Thanks in advance.

  18. Don M September 30, 2019 at 3:05 pm Reply

    This appears to kind of relate to the problems a floxie has. Written by Dr. Carolyn Dean. Thought I would post it and maybe it will help us all better understand the importance of magnesium. Get an RBC magnesium level test. In the US it is $49 at RequestAtest. https://requestatest.com/ No doctor’s order needed because they have their own in house doctors that send the request to your local lab for the blood draw.

    Magnesium and Mitochondrial Health
    Magnesium’s role in mitochondrial health is known and accepted yet many doctors and clinicians have not gotten up to speed with its use.

    Commonly known as the powerhouses of the cell the major role of mitochondria is to produce energy (ATP) in the Krebs cycle, using magnesium in 6 of its 8 steps. But its other roles include:

    Calcium homeostasis (which requires Mg)
    Apoptosis: cell death (triggered by Mg deficiency affecting telomerase)
    Free radical species generation (hastened by Mg deficiency)
    Radical species scavenging (assisted by Mg)
    Steroid biosynthesis (Mg aids in production)
    Orchestrate metabolism (Mg helps digest protein, fats, carbs)
    Our bodies make energy by breaking down food into an electrical charge that is sent across the membrane, making the inside of the mitochondria negative and the space between the mitochondria membranes positive. This charge potential difference is essentially a battery. The battery changes ADP to the energy molecule ATP.

    When the mitochondria fail to perform this process properly, mitochondrial disease results. However, there is no single test that can diagnose mitochondrial disease but apparently, researchers have identified nearly 300 different known genetic causes.

    These genetic mutations can be located either in the nucleus of the cell or in the DNA of the mitochondria itself. The first mitochondrial DNA disease was identified nearly 30 years ago, leading to an entirely new medical field. Much has been learned in a very short period, and we now know that any organ can be affected.

    Many people whose mitochondria fail to produce sufficient energy have neurologic problems. These can include strokes, seizures, and headaches such as migraines – all worsened by magnesium deficiency. Any part of the nervous system can be affected, including the peripheral and the autonomic nervous systems. Any organ that depends on energy to function—ie, all of them—can be affected. Common systems affected include muscles, kidneys, liver, vision, hearing, the hormonal system, and blood.

    If asked, ‘How can mitochondria be supported?’ Dr. Carolyn Dean will answer with two proven methods – nutrition and exercise.

    First, let’s explore exercise. Exercise can help make more mitochondria and can shift the levels of errors in the mitochondrial DNA and increase the function of those mitochondria. How does this happen specifically? When you exercise, your muscles require more energy in the form of ATP that is made in the mitochondria. I’m constantly reminding people that 6 of the 8 steps in the Krebs cycle to make ATP require magnesium. Oxygen is required during exercise, respiratory rate and heart rate increase. Both require magnesium. Without sufficient oxygen, lactic acid will form instead and magnesium is necessary to reduce lactic acid. Then there is the fact that it’s the tiny tears from the damage that exercise causes in your muscles that makes them grow bigger and stronger as they heal. Any type of inflammation, pain, or swelling in the muscles requires magnesium in order to heal.

    When it comes to nutrition, magnesium saturation and specific vitamins are very important to the functioning of the mitochondrial electron transport chain and all of the enzymes within it. The nutrients that are recommended are B vitamins, antioxidants such as vitamin A and vitamin C, and magnesium. In fact, magnesium deficiency is accompanied by increased levels of oxidative stress markers such as inflammation and endothelial dysfunction, as well as changes at the cellular level, such as mitochondrial dysfunction and excessive fatty acid production.

  19. Don M October 1, 2019 at 6:24 am Reply

    A very interesting web site https://rxisk.org/
    There is reading here that could hold one for hours. Bottom line. One wonders if the industry is trying to help the populations of the world dumb them down or poison them. One also wonders if there is more omission of information than information from the pharmacy/medical industry. If I sound a bit biased it is because after over 60 years of dealing with the medical community …… yes I am biased.

    • L October 1, 2019 at 9:37 am Reply

      Maybe both Don. I just watched the movie Vaxxed and my jaw dropped at the amount of fraud and coverup, just to protect their precious wealth stream. Then you look at people like Bill Gates. He’s not a stupid man, and yet he partners with Monsanto to spread GMOs all over the world. We know GMOs do NOT increase the production of food, and DO cause harm. Decrease the population? One has to wonder. Then there are all the sites that purposely call out Drs like Mercola and call them quacks and call natural treatments nonsense. Too damn much money involved.

  20. Don M October 1, 2019 at 9:57 am Reply

    Oh! the tangled web of the medical community and the FDA. Excerpt: It wasn’t until after Dr. Hamburg left the FDA that the warnings of disabling and potentially irreversible serious adverse reactions, described above, were added to Levaquin. An estimated 5,000 people died and an estimated 80,000 people were damaged after consuming Levaquin without adequate safety warnings while Dr. Hamburg was FDA Commissioner and her husband was Renaissance Technologies Co-CEO.
    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hillary-clintons-medical-condition-may-be-result-of-her-taking-dangerous-drug-levaquin-according-to-larry-klayman-300328917.html
    Not trying to be political with this posting. Just read some of the comment about the drug Leviquin that is included in the article.

    • L October 1, 2019 at 10:40 am Reply

      Funny you should post that. I was just wondering the other day whatever happened with the case against Dr Hamburg. I could not find anything…could still be going on. Sometimes they go on for years. I will take another look later. But for those who are not familiar with it, Dr Hamburg was charged with racketeering while head of the FDA, for approving Levaquin while her husband had stock in it. https://ahrp.org/former-fda-commissioner-charged-in-federal-racketeering-lawsuit/

  21. Don M October 1, 2019 at 12:44 pm Reply

    https://ahrp.org/former-fda-commissioner-charged-in-federal-racketeering-lawsuit/ Very interesting. Very, very interesting reading. A lot of people paid dearly with their health because of this greed. In my opinion this is as bad as any mass murder that has come along recently. This couple (along with a few dozen others) should be behind bars and never allowed to see daylight again. Thank you L. Thanks for posting it so that I and any other interested floxie can read it. There will be a lot of angry floxies out there after reading this story of nothing but GREED.

    • L October 1, 2019 at 1:14 pm Reply

      Here is the actual amended complaint for the case in case anyone wants to read it. Hamburg was one of several defendants. I could find no status, so I just emailed the attorney who brought the case. (Interestingly, he is very right wing, and someone I would not normally want to correspond with. https://www.scribd.com/doc/309957583/Amended-Levaquin-complaint

  22. Don M October 1, 2019 at 5:38 pm Reply

    L……. I skimmed through it and find that it is very interesting reading. I find it interesting that there appears to be only 500 recorded deaths but the fact that the FDA admits that only and estimated 10% are actually on record and that the number may well be 5,000. Using the same 10% figure the 8,000 reported injuries could well be 80,000. As I said before the criminality because of greed is mind boggling. The disrespect for other humans by these people should be punished by a whole lot more than a big $$$$ settlement.

    • L October 1, 2019 at 6:15 pm Reply

      Actually, extrapolating the FDAs own numbers, Drug safety researcher Charles Bennett actually came up (a few years ago) with the figure of 300,000 deaths! That would put injuries in the millions. (Although this suit was just re Levaquin, so that would really drop the number.) Check out the last sentence of this article. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/investigations/levaquin-fda-fails-to-disclose-additional-serious-side-effects-of-antibiotic-linked-to-deaths

      • Don M October 1, 2019 at 7:22 pm Reply

        The information is all over the place……. if you want to look for it. When a doctor says “I have never heard of it” what more can you say to them. Just run. Get as far from them as you can. I had a doctor say just that and then he tried to tell me that antibiotics only worked on “bad” bacteria and didn’t affect the other ones. Obviously he had no idea of the 4 black box warnings on Fluoroquinolones. Geeees!

        • L October 1, 2019 at 7:51 pm

          I know, it’s just mind-numbing. I had at least a dozen doctors “Throw me under the bus” “Oh, can’t be the Cipro!” “Cipro’s great! I use it all the time!” One put in his notes I was delusional and had “pseudo medical knowledge.” He was a neurologist!!!! Knew NOTHING about the warning for possible permanent nerve damage. The ones that had some awareness, knew ONLY of the ruptured tendons. Even my former dentists kind of “laughed it off.” I had really liked her, but I looked at her stone cold, and said “IT’s not funny, and you damn well better stop using it. Do some research.” I have since since an holistic DDS. What really gets me though is that I would go in armed with papers and NOT ONE would look at the papers, or take a minute to look online on the computers they ALL had in their offices. Such arrogance.

      • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 1:14 am Reply

        According to Dr.Bennett the FDA had estimated that only 10 % of adverse reactions had been registrated (the conservative estimation),and that the real number might be even much lower,to only 1 %.That’s how he came to the high number of 300.000 death.

        • L October 2, 2019 at 10:15 am

          well normally in any situation, not just medical reporting, they say only around 10% of people will actually respond. I think in this situation it likely is closer to 1 percent because a) most people are unaware that there even is a procedure to report, and if so how to do it…and even of those that do know, there are still very few who actually do it. As for physicians reporting it themselves….well, given the fact that they nearly always deny that the flqs could have had anything to do with the side effects, I am guessing that is closer to zero. Also, these drugs are sold around the world. I would bet that in many countries reporting is ZERO.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 10:55 am

          And the delay time after which the symptoms appear won’t help,either.

        • L October 2, 2019 at 11:35 am

          Exactly!

        • L October 2, 2019 at 10:16 am

          oh…and then there are all those people either walking around thinking they have lupus, or Epstein barr or something else…or who have died or killed themselves, and no one ever linked it to these poisons.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 11:00 am

          That;s right,but all these factors make it hard to settle for an excact number of victims.

        • L October 2, 2019 at 11:38 am

          which is why I believe Dr Bennett chose the calculation he did. Personally, I think it is much higher victim-wise, esp judging from comments I see online, not just on floxie hope. I have seen people post from all over Europe, Pakistan, the Middle East, all over the US, Canada, etc

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 12:49 pm

          In that,you’re right as well:Dr.Bennett calculated that number,based on registrated adverse reactions in the USA,only.And,I’m not sure,this was just about Levoquin,not the rest of the FQ’s ???

        • L October 2, 2019 at 2:07 pm

          His 300,000 number I believe was re all fluoroquinolones. Some numbers used in earlier posts referred to the lawsuit against former FDA chair Margaret Hamburg, and that was regarding only Levaquin.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 11:45 pm

          I think you’re right;already was in doubt about only Levoquin,or all FQ’s.But that number was based on FDA data,so,the global number of FQ death and heavily damaged must be way higher.Not so strange,that the Farmafia tries to hide these facts!

  23. Don M October 1, 2019 at 6:21 pm Reply

    L……. I skimmed through the document and find that it is very interesting reading. I find it interesting that there appears to be only 500 recorded deaths but the fact that the FDA admits that only and estimated 10% are actually on record and that the number may well be 5,000. Using the same 10% figure the 8,000 reported injuries could well be 80,000. As I said before the criminality because of greed is mind boggling. The disrespect for other humans by these people should be punished by a whole lot more than a big $$$$ settlement.

  24. Don M October 1, 2019 at 6:24 pm Reply

    Appears that posting are all messed up.
    Lisa can you fix it? Please

    • Lisa October 2, 2019 at 7:17 am Reply

      Sorry Don – the interface I use lets me do very little to fix things. I can delete comments, but I can’t switch their order or formatting. Sorry! I wish I could.

  25. Attila October 2, 2019 at 12:48 am Reply

    Hi Folks!

    As I mentoined earlier since i was floxed 21months ago I have tinnitus. 3 Days ago I ordered 100% Whey Powder to reduce cravings for sugar and dinner before go to bed. I’ve noticed that since I started drinking twice a day my tinnitus has almost completely decreased. I don’t know if this is a coincidence or it just works for me, but I thought I’d share it with you. That’s not why I bought it, but it seems to have something to do with it. My whey contains: whey protein concentrate 87%, L-Glutamin, Bcaa and sucralose. In any case, be careful with the sucralose. Maybe it’s worth a try.

    • L October 2, 2019 at 10:09 am Reply

      I think it might be a coincidence. I was on whey for a while and it did nothing for my post-cipro tinnintis. Be curious to hear from anyone else

      • Attila October 2, 2019 at 11:00 am Reply

        Today i took the evening dose, and silent like never in my almost 22month post flox. Basically I’m very happy with this, anyway weird connection. 🙂 who knows…

        • L October 2, 2019 at 11:39 am

          well, damn! that’s great. I may give it another shot. Mine has only worsened. Which brand did you use?

        • Attila October 2, 2019 at 11:45 am

          I do not want to give a direct brand because at the end others will think I am advertising a product, but look for one that contains the ingredients I have listed.

        • L October 2, 2019 at 11:46 am

          people do it all the time on here, when asked. but that’s fine if you don’t wish to

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 1:00 pm

          Are you sure you’re not advertising those ingredients,Attila? Just kidding ;-)) Like L wrote;people do it all the time.And when it sounds promissing and realistic,they’ll ask you the brand,anyway,and you’re free to answer that question and save them the work of doing a search on the ingredients to find that product.

          Might I guess? Is it Blade Sport?

        • Dee October 2, 2019 at 1:27 pm

          Attila, if you don’t mind I would really like to get the brand of your whey too. I’ve had tinnitus for over 2 years now!!! Would love for it to disappear!!! It is ok to give a brand name if you aren’t selling it!! You never know if what helped you might help a fellow Floxie!!! Thanks!!

        • Lisa October 2, 2019 at 1:05 pm

          As long as it’s not a product you’re selling directly (especially through the direct marketing or MLM model), you are free to mention a brand-name, Attila.

          I’m glad that the product is helping you!!

        • Attila October 2, 2019 at 1:21 pm

          The name of the whey is Protein Buzz 100% Whey from Biotech. https://shop.builder.hu/images/shop/s1564603525.png
          I hope it will works for you as well.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 2, 2019 at 1:32 pm

          I found that one as well,but the website said: whey protein concentrate 85% I guess this product is in the market under several different names and brands,but same recipy.A question: did it help you with other Floxie problems,as well? Tendons,muscles,weakness?

        • L October 2, 2019 at 2:10 pm

          Thanks. Maybe they should call it “no buzz?” 🙂 I would LOVE if it worked for me. Will give it a try.

        • Dee October 2, 2019 at 2:17 pm

          Question! What do you all think, and some of you have done research. If your tendons and ligaments have been weakened and damaged do they have a chance to repair and grow stronger as “time” goes on?? I know cartridge can erode and I assume that is a done deal?? I was hoping tendons and ligaments can grow stronger as time goes on and hopefully you are past the point when the FQ is no longer doing “more” damage.

  26. Dee October 3, 2019 at 8:09 am Reply

    Any thoughts on my last question about tendons getting stronger and repairing in time? This is assuming the FQ is more or less done doing “more” damage being 28 months out I would hope the damage is done by now and hopefully in the repair healing stage!!??

  27. Don M October 3, 2019 at 8:34 am Reply

    Dee……….. I’ll post an excerpt from an email that Dr. Carolyn Dean has sent out. (“There is the fact that it’s the tiny tears from the damage that exercise causes in your muscles that makes them grow bigger and stronger as they heal. Any type of inflammation, pain, or swelling in the muscles requires magnesium in order to heal”.) Other places in the article discuss the need for plenty of magnesium to be available for the body to use for it’s self-repairs. Interesting article but probably a bit to long to post it all here.
    Bottom line to it is that magnesium and exercise are needed to help the muscles and tendons repair themselves and gain more strength. So to answer your question. Yes……. With the proper nutrients most likely (with time) you can regain strength in your muscles and tendons.

    • Dee October 3, 2019 at 9:08 am Reply

      Thanks Don!!! I was hoping to hear that!! I really slacked off on my mag at 2 years out. I wouldn’t be surprised that caused me a relapse in my tendonitis reoccurring after quite awhile not having too many issues. My knees and ankles are sore and achy again and of course I mentioned that I got rotator cuff tears from doing nothing two weeks ago! I pray I have no more tears!!! I was wondering too if taking collagen and bone broth might help the tendons?? I had mostly CNS damage that had healed a lot although not completely “yet”. So I was rather surprised to get hit with tendon tearing and flareup aching that wasn’t really that apparent during my last 2 years of recovery. I am hoping the shoulder was some kind of on going injury that just finally gave out?? I am 63 so maybe I had a previous weakness in that shoulder?? I just don’t want anything else to tear!!!

      • Don M October 3, 2019 at 12:59 pm Reply

        Dee….. I’m 85 and blindly took Cipro off and on since it was introduced in 1985. I was in on the clinical trials of it even before it hit the market. Over the years I collected many different unusual and unexplained symptoms. It appears that I am one of the people who it only mildly affected. Problem is that this all has come home to roost. It was not until I started consulting Dr. Google and found out the truth about Fluoroquinolones that I really began to put it all together and figure out why I had felt the way I did. It appears that doctors were clueless because not one of them ever suggested that Fluoroquinolone use might be the underlying cause of the strange things. Be easy on the shoulders but continuously and mildly exercise them. According to Dr. Dean the exercising is important. May I suggest that you “seriously” look into COLD LASER treatment for the shoulders and any other thing that might hurt. COLD LASER “home” units are a bit expensive but it is amazing how well it works to limit pain. I use NO pain meds but do use the laser several times a day for everything from the peripheral neuropathy in my feet to the discomfort in my shoulders. The shoulders probably have tendon problems but the first thing a doctor would want to do is “OPERATE”.
        Bottom line…… It is amazing but it works. I just recently found out about it and bought my own portable hand held unit. It has been used around the world for about 20 years but just beginning to be known and get some traction here in the US. Not surprising that the drug companies don’t want it to become well known. It really cuts out their profits from pain killer sales. If you read up on Cold Laser it will explain how Cold Laser is very conducive to improved healing and that it helps produce an increase in the body’s ATP. I see this absolutely and totally non invasive thing as a win, win all the way around. Look into it.
        There is plenty of information about it on the Internet.

        • Fred S October 3, 2019 at 4:26 pm

          Don – I may be going with the unit attached. Have you had experience with this? Thanks
          https://www.lasertrx.com/lasertrx-pain-relief-cold-laser-therapy-device-new-technology.html

        • Don M October 3, 2019 at 7:41 pm

          To Fred S…. Yes I have experience with the unit you refer to. It is the one that I have. Laser TRX. The basic specs are the same as the one that is considered top of the line and is selling for about $2,500. I am very pleased with the results I get from this unit. Do not pay the $1,185 for one though. It can be bought through Amazon for about $985.

          Something that you might also consider is looking at the bulbs. There are ones with the same 660 deep red and 850 far infrared diodes in them. They are not focused like a Cold Laser is so they take longer for each treatment but they cover a larger area. There is one on eBay for about $40. It is listed as the 54 watt one. I believe it says it has 18 diodes. I also bought a 12 x 12 panel that has 225 LEDs. They are divided between the deep red 660 and the far infrared 850 diodes. It covers a much larger area. Obviously making it slower than the focused beam of the Cold Laser unit. I use this panel on my feet to help the peripheral neuropathy. Treatment time is 30 to 45 minutes. There are claims that after a few months of treatment the neuropathy is much improved. Temporary relief is good but I will see if over time it fixes the problem.

          Good luck with the Laser TRX. I think you will be very satisfied with results. The immediate pain relief is great but be aware of one thing. It takes a long time for lasting results because the light therapy is coaxing the body to repair itself.

  28. Don M October 3, 2019 at 1:06 pm Reply

    https://hearinglosshelp.com/blog/is-ciprofloxacin-cipro-ototoxic/ I just run onto this bit about Cipro and hearing problems. Interesting reading that might help to explain the reason behind so many floxies complaining about tinnitus.

  29. Don M October 3, 2019 at 3:17 pm Reply

    If you are thinking that infrared light therapy won’t help the symptoms a floxie has you need to read this. https://healmynerves.com/blogs/treatments/science-confirms-infrared-light-therapy-remarkable-for-healing-nerves
    I use a light panel on the peripheral neuropathy in my feet and it definitely helps the discomfort. I use a Cold Laser unit on my shoulders and anywhere else on my body I have pain. Go to Google and read about Cold Lasers and light therapy. There is plenty of information about it there.
    As an inexpensive starter you can get a bulb that incorporates light diodes in the 2 ranges that are beneficial. Go to Amazon or eBay to look for one.
    Light therapy has been available other places in the world for about 30 years and is now beginning to get traction here in the US. Research it. It is totally noninvasive and painless and it works.

  30. Don M October 4, 2019 at 7:03 am Reply

    Something about Medicare that came across my Facebook news feed.
    https://www.westernjournal.com/new-medicare-pre-authorization-deny-care-increase-inequality/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=westernjournalism&utm_content=2019-10-03&utm_campaign=manualpost&fbclid=IwAR2GitKDcCJP2I5iNghGiwWxsIqDSETMnZtuASVsQXgqrMq7POtTLkeKDkM
    Many of us floxies are at the age where we depend on some sort of Medicare as our insurance plan. This new ruling does not bode well for us. Read it. Those of you who are not at the “Medicare” age yet should also be concerned about this because eventually it will affect you.

    It is hard enough now to get a doctor to listen to and believe one who is affected with Fluoroquinolone Toxicity. This certainly will not help.

    • L October 4, 2019 at 9:34 am Reply

      And trump signed an order to “privatize it.” Not sure what the effects of that will be.

      This is insane. A year or so after I was floxed, I actually wrote to the Insurance commissioner and Medicare about how ALL insurers could save money just by removing fluoroquinolones or requiring special authorization to use them. Of course no one paid attention. I used myself as an example, with the dozens of doctors I saw, the multiple blood tests, the MRIs, and on and on. Just for myself alone the cost to them was in the tens of thousands. (although I spent way more on natural care.) So multiply that cost by the millions who are injured……staggering. But not, that solution is too simple.

    • L October 4, 2019 at 9:36 am Reply

      Ok, I just clicked the link and that article is from 2014, so it has already been in existence for several years Don.

  31. Henk Noordhuizen October 5, 2019 at 2:14 am Reply

    A new article from Merocla,about the devastating of antidepressiva.

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/10/05/side-effects-of-antidepressants.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1HL&utm_campaign=20191005Z2&et_cid=DM358525&et_rid=722333475

    As Mercola wrote,a lot of “medicines” cause depression.I,personally think that the main cause is a magnesium defficiency,and indeed;many “med’s” cause a magnesium defficiency; PPI’s,antibiotics,anticonceptics and other meds that cause hormonal changes (our hormone system is a mega-user of magnesium! Beware,women,with your monthly cyclus and your Menopauze;you’ll need a lot more of magnesium than adviced).And lots of other substances,like food ads,skin “care” products and household chemicals will,probably,do the same;most of them are even never tested for health safety.

    Now you know why,in the alternative medical sector,magnesium defficiency is the “modern,science based medicine” is their greatest,dirty secret.Or: “First they create a problem,then they offer a “solution”.

    • Don M October 5, 2019 at 2:26 am Reply

      The common term for it is “iatrogenic” illness. The medical community causes an illness with their products and then tries to concoct something to treat it. The cycle is never ending.

      • Henk Noordhuizen October 5, 2019 at 2:57 am Reply

        You’re damn right on that,Don.And they’re INVENTING mental problems for the same reason.

        Now,even people who take good care of their health,and food,are diagnosed as having a mental problem! We should not be worried about all the poisons,and the lack of essential vitamines and minerals in our foods because of the way it’s grown.If we DO worry,we’ve got a problem;the psych’s are comming after us!

  32. Henk Noordhuizen October 5, 2019 at 2:49 am Reply

    One line in that article says it all:

    “In one heart-wrenching case, a 13-year-old girl was removed from her parents and forcibly restrained and medicated with a dozen different drugs (some of which were not approved for her age group) for five months after the TeenScreen test “diagnosed” her as being at high risk for suicide.”

    Would the girl,after this horrible experience,indeed having commited suicide,then these “doctors” would have said:”Didn’t we tell you? We were right,all the time”.

    Prison is not good enough,for these kind of people;just the second best punishment.The least,human kind can do is lock them up and give them a forced dose of their poison to swallow,every day,for the rest of their lives.

    This TeenScreen had profit in mind,NOT the (mental) health of teens!!! On Wiki:

    “The TeenScreen National Center for Mental Health Checkups at Columbia University was a national mental health and suicide risk screening initiative for middle- and high-school age adolescents. Paid for entirely by the pharmaceutical industry in order to push psychotropic meds on children”.

  33. Fred S October 8, 2019 at 5:27 pm Reply

    Well – I need to have a large kidney stone removed / lasered (long standing issue) and I asked the doctor if he planned to use an antibiotic during the procedure. Of course he said very causally that he gives ‘everyone’ Cipro. This was after I told him my sad story of severe Cipro issues. When I said ‘no f***ing way in hell’ he said he has options outside of the nasty FQ family. Has anyone used other antibiotics successfully after being floxed and how do I ensure they do not slip Cipro or something similar into the IV while I am under? Thanks

    • Don M October 8, 2019 at 9:22 pm Reply

      Fred S…… I have no good answer to your suspicions. On this site is a piece written that is titled “They Don’t Understand”. It is so true. Find it and read it. Since last April I have been going through a hassle over doctors. My 20+ year doctor decided that he had had enough of the system he was working under and decided to move to another organization that was more Holistic and natural. Shortly after his MD license was suspended. Turns out that because of the opiate crisis problem he fell under suspicion for the pain killers he was prescribing for his patients. Smelled to me more like “lets pick a doctor and make an example of him”. While he was under suspension I was “arbitrarily” without consulting me assigned to another doctor and clinic. Had to have a PC so I went to him to get established.
      I asked him about his familiarity with Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome. His answer…… “Never heard of it”. Strike one! He then proceeded to tell me that antibiotics only were active against infectious bacteria and they DID NOT affect other cells of the body. Strike 2! Then he decided that I needed a physical (about $800 would have been his charge against my insurance) Totally ignored my suggested information and comments. Strike 3! I selected another doctor in another clinic to designate as my PC. Went to him to get established. When I asked him about Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome he said he was not aware of it but would research it. More concerned over my blood pressure. Blamed my BP unit as being inaccurate. Had to make a 2 week BP chart at home then take it and my unit to be checked against his office unit. At the visit he never mentioned looking into the toxicity issue and just skimmed over my record, but decided I needed blood pressure medication.
      I said I didn’t need medication because at age 85 my blood pressure was OK. He said “well I can’t help you”, got up and left the room. Strike 1, 2 and 3! Not going to see him again!
      In the mean time my doctor of 20+ years got things straightened out and his license was reinstated. Now working in a clinic that leans more toward holistic and natural I will be back to seeing him. He does know about Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome and has the support now to work with me on it.

      Long and boring story but it tends to prove that all doctors are not created equal and there are some with their heads up their ass that can do one more harm than good. Really good ones have become scarce and are hard to find.

      • Henk Noordhuizen October 9, 2019 at 6:21 am Reply

        Not at all boring,Don! In fact,it is very informative on,how difficult it is to find a sensible and responsible doctor. Yours is a one in a million!

  34. Don M October 8, 2019 at 9:32 pm Reply

    Fred S……… If you have any kind of Urinary problems look into D-Mannose. I won’t go into a long sales pitch for D-Mannose because there is plenty of information on the Internet. Just Google D-Mannose. Surprising how many doctors have never heard of it but nearly all Urologists will recommend cranberry juice as an item to take for a UTI. Ironically the cranberry juice contains D-Mannose but to get the same amount as a pill one must drink at least a quart of sugar laden cranberry juice. Research it and use it. I use it.

  35. Erin October 9, 2019 at 2:53 am Reply

    I know what we have been going through. This has helped me the most so far in my recovery. This will all go but it takes some time. hang in there.

    http://bit.do/floxrecovery

    • Barbara Arnold October 9, 2019 at 3:23 am Reply

      Erin, I’m not sure, but you could be in breach of copyright. This is Kerri Knox’s book which you have to pay for. It’s a good book if your newly floxed, as it gives you an insight into what’s happened to you. However it is definately not a solution as the title infers. I got this over 4 years ago. While some of the suggestions on vitamins and minerals are good ie, magnesium, vitaminD etc, you could end up spending a lot of money on things you don’t need, which is what I did in the begining. Buying the book allows you to join her site where again there is useful information. She does answer questions you may have, but she is a nurse and there is a lot she doesn’t know about floxies, as she has never been floxed. The point is, though I don’t know how you managed to get it on here free of charge, so I’m just saying it’s possible she would not be very happy about it. The charge for the book is minimal and like I said it can help new floxies.

      • Henk Noordhuizen October 9, 2019 at 3:57 am Reply

        Barbara,this is a free of charge book,and with express permission to forward and distribute it. In fact;it’s a Kerry Knox commercial ;-))

        • Barbara Arnold October 9, 2019 at 6:37 am

          So your right, there is no breach of copyright as it’s just an advertisement. It’s not the book itself. I didn’t read all of it when I opened the link, because I already have the book. So I made the mistake of thinking it was the book. Never mind, it will teach me to read the lot next time ha ha.

      • L October 9, 2019 at 10:27 am Reply

        Saw your posted after I replied to the book posting. Yes, not only incomplete but some inaccurate information, like discouraging the use of NSAIDS because of stomach ulcers, when in fact they should not be taken at all. I find that those in the medical profession, if they know ANYTHING about flq toxicity are really only focused on just tendon issues.

    • L October 9, 2019 at 10:22 am Reply

      Some good information here, but I would not take this as completely accurate. First there is this: ” you need to start reversing the conditions that ALLOWED your body to be Susceptible to the drug” Many people who were floxed were in great shape prior to it happening, and there were no “conditions.” (Plus, I’m sorry, but it sounds a bit like blaming the victim. And then later she mentions a pre-condition of “old age.” Um, how are people supposed to remedy that?

      Also, later “You also need to understand that if you were getting infections requiring you to take antibiotics in the first place, that you likely have some immune system problems and/or nutritional deficiencies that prevented your body from fighting off these infections in the first place” I’m sorry but even the healthiest people I know, including NDs and acupuncturists DO get sick on occasion! (They don’t take antibiotics except as a last resort, but EVERYONE gets sick at some point.)

      As for a medic alert bracelet, that’s fine if you want to wear one. I decided I didn’t want this label attached to me for the rest of my life. Instead, in my wallet where my driver’s license would normally go, I have a card that reads “NO cipro, Levaquin or any fluoroquinolone. No streroids.”

      She mentions NSAIDS and lumps them together with Tylenol, and stomach ulcers. She says if you take them, make sure they are buffered. But NSAIDS are NOT to be taken period! I don’t think it helps much personally, but I would not rule out acetaminophen.

      Stressing magnesium is right on, but she leaves off two good forms: L-threonate and taurate (which also benefits the heart…and many of us had heart issues post floxing.)

      RE selenium…I would just take a couple brazil nuts everyday. You always want to try to get your nutrients through food when possible.

      RE the coq10, anyone over 40 should take the ubiquinol form.

      A lot of good stuff, but some incomplete information.

  36. Barbara Arnold October 9, 2019 at 6:29 am Reply

    Henk, I’m confused. The book is advertised at the top of this page, but you have to pay for it. So I’ve looked at it and it is an advertisement to buy the book. I paid 30 euros for it, if I remember correctly. So I’m not sure what you mean by saying it’s free of charge.

    • Henk Noordhuizen October 9, 2019 at 6:54 am Reply

      Hi Barbara,in fact,there are two different books;the free one (The Levaquin tendonitus solution;FREE),and The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution,a 130 page book,for the “super-friendly” price of $40.

      Have to do a Win10 update,now;please,pray for me and my PC ;-)) When I’n not back within 2 days,please,send in the cavalry!

      • L October 9, 2019 at 10:25 am Reply

        Good luck! The last update I did took over THREE HOURS…and I got updates 3 weeks in a row. Hate windows, but not great alternatives out there.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 9, 2019 at 11:34 am

          L.,thank you for wishing me good luck;it worked! Well,actually,4 days ago there was the monthy cumulative update,and today it was a cumulative one,as well,but only for “.net”.Both without problems,but I had problems before,with those damn updates;a few times my monitor calibration didn’t work,afterwards,and a few times the drivers from my Epsom were gone.

          Most annoying of all;MShit,during updating,uninstalls progs that might not work well with W10,after the update,or might cause problems,without even asking,or informing what it did! I have quite a few open source programs,I use regularly,most of them for photography,and Win10 does not like progs who’s makers refused to pay to get a MS safety license.So,away goes your app,which is often better and safer than the MS one,or an MS-licenced one.I never had any problems with one of those progs,not even after I re-installed them after the update,so,I can’t find any reson for MS to uninstall those apps.Or might that be for putting pressure on the makers to buy a license?

          Linux is getting better and better,and more and more apps,written for windows,are now ported to Linux and other systems.And their Linux Mint is quite suitable for people,comming from Windows and not willing to do the Linux Nerd study.You can even install it as a second system,along your Win install,or run it without install,from a Live CD (with limitations,just for a first look,before doing a full install).Might have given Mint another try but the PC I use today is quite limited in RAM and disk space.

          An update of 3 hours? I remember one,but that was quite a while ago.But when you postpone one or more of those cumulative updates,and then accept the next one,it could take hours,indeed.And,comming to think of it: I can’t think of anybody in my circle,amateur nor prof user of Win,NOT hating it! XP was the most acceptable version,and I miss it!

        • L October 9, 2019 at 1:22 pm

          yeah, I also have compatibility problems. And I hate bloat. I only want security updates and patches to fix things…not a bunch of stuff I don’t want, that they think I need.

          Have been reading about Linux lately. Maybe next go round….

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 10, 2019 at 1:42 am

          I think Linux Mint Mate is the one I’m gonna try;very stable is the magic word :-)) But first I’m gonna make a list of (for me) essential progs,to find out if there’s a Linux version of these apps.Most open source programs I use will not be a problem;of some of them it’s even hard to find a win version,or there’s one,only recently.(the open source community hates MS Windows evenmore than most users).Drivers for my older hardware,like my Minolta filmscanner migh be a problem.And will I still be able to play my adventure game collection? I think I need an extra Win PC for those.

          After having read a lot of info on Selenium I decided to add it to my supplement list.Also found a high quality source of Selenium Yeast,and the costs,on a daily base,are quite low and fit my budget! And I put an egg a day to my “supplements” as well :-)) In fact,I don’t eat much meat (1-2x/week),more often fish,and eggs,which are a kind of superfood.

        • L October 10, 2019 at 9:17 am

          Ironically, after our posts yesterday, I had yet another update!!! This one took twenty minutes, and afterwards, as usual, my laptop became a doorstop. Blue circle. Nothing. I finally forced it off, and when it came back it was working. Let us know if you end up getting Linux

          In the same mercola from today he also talks about black seed oil. I used it in the past and it worked great for my asthma. (Tastes like motor oil—just truly awful) But if anyone is having at least mild asthma and wants to forgo pharmaceuticals I would encourage them to give it a try for a few weeks.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 10, 2019 at 11:46 am

          Hi L.I downloaded the Lunix Mint Mate version (32-bits),burned the ISo on a DVD,changed,on a PC that I grabbed from the street,some weeks ago,the BIOS on first startup device option:DVD-device and started with the Linux DVD in the reader.Worked fine.Remember;when starting tis image as a LIVE DVD,only the basic system is started.The apps on the DVD are not started,so it’s mainly for a first look.You can start a full install from there:there’s an icon for that on the desktop screen.

          I will first make an extra partition with XP,which is already installed on that PC,and then install Linux besides Win.When I remember well,Linux will automatically install a Bootmaster which gives you the choice for startin Win,or Linux,every time you start the PC.The version I have is 19.2,and it’s a download of 1.93 GB.There’s also a possibility to make a USB-version,like the one Don wrote about.And it’s free,except for some apps that come with the DVD.More info is on the website:

          https://linuxmint.com/download.php

          I used the Black Seed oil (Nigella seeds) in the past.Not the most pleasant taste in the world but hey;it;s a lot better than the taste of poison-pills like Cipro (no taste but years off utter misery).

          Now I only use the seeds and I like them.First put some honey on a slice of bread,and then cover this with seeds (you might start with butter;I hardly use butter on my bread).For optimal profit you have to chew really well,and then there’s some bitter taste,but when just “breaking” the seeds between your teeth,the taste is a bit like cumin and other seeds from the Apiaceae (Anise,etc.).

          These seeds,and their oil are mentioned in the Quran,several times,and called a medicine against all diseases.research has shown it’s medical value.

          I’m working on a recipy with both eggs and apples;when ready and tasting well (of which I’m almost sure,already) I will put it here.The idea is a combination of 3 different recipies,put together,with a bit of modification,and,thanks to the Mercola article of today,it fits in a healthy lifestyle :-))

        • L October 10, 2019 at 11:52 am

          Thanks. I think I would just order the plug in that Don posted.

          And nice to read about eggs. I had actually heard before that they were not bad for you. I don’t have them everyday, but I will eat them for any meal. (Huevos Rancheros for dinner!!! 🙂 )

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 10, 2019 at 12:16 pm

          Forgot to post the link for creating a bootable USB stick,or DVD:

          https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/burn.html

          You might give it a try,and learn something new.When not satisfied,just format the stick;it will cost you nothing at all.Only some time.I will :-))

          I eat eggs,several times a week, as a replacement for meat (too expensive,especially when you want to eat high quality bio-organic,grass-fed meat,which is hard to find,here).

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 10, 2019 at 12:27 pm

          L.,before you buy,or make a USB startup stick,don’t forget to check if your PC (on which you intend to use the stick) supports starting from a USB device,in the BIOS. This is relatively new,and PC’s.older than a few years,don’t have this option.In that case,you can make a DVD version,which will work on all PC’s except for really old ones.

        • L October 10, 2019 at 2:06 pm

          thanks…will do

  37. Henk Noordhuizen October 10, 2019 at 12:14 am Reply

    An egg a day….

    While the Farmafia convinced us we had to lower our cholesterole intake,eat no more than 2-3 eggs a week,and lowering our cholesterole-level even further by using their (dangerous!) statins (even suggested that adding them to our tapwatee would be a good idea!),science has proven them wrong in everything they brainwashed us into believing.

    Cholesterole is extremely important for good overall health,including brain health,and now another substance (Choline),is found to be of high importance for brain health.The food,highest in Choline? Eggs! It’s also found in salmon,brocolli and other foods,but not nearly as abundant as in eggs.Research is still going on and probably,more health profits from Choline might be discovered in the future.

    Makes one wonder:in the last few years the low salt myth proved wrong,and dangerous,the cholesterole myth (eggs are dangerous;don’t eat more that 2 eggs a week!) proved to be totally wrong,and dangerous (in particulair for older people,where low cholesterol increases (!) their risk of heart failure,and now Choline proves to be extremely important for a healthy brain and body.What’s going on,here? Why is so much health advice,comming from our “science based medicine” not only totally wrong but also outright dangerous for our health?

    Here today’s article by Dr. Mercola,about Choline,and why you shouldn’t only eat an apple a day,but an egg,as well:

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/10/10/vegetarian-choline-deficiency.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art2HL&utm_campaign=20191010Z2&et_cid=DM363546&et_rid=725656243

    • Don M October 10, 2019 at 5:53 am Reply

      Hmmm……. I eat 3 eggs every morning. I kind of poach/fry them (very low heat) in a little coconut oil and a stainless steel pan. (no non stick cook ware and all it’s chemicals) Is it right or wrong to be consuming that many eggs weekly? There are so many different things (vitamins, minerals etc.) that are completely overlooked or ignored by “today’s” medical establishment. Seems that the idea is a prescription instead of the proper food or a supplement. Health maintenance is not masking a person’s problems with a prescription drug but finding the right foods and supplements to make good health. The body has (through the millennia) developed to utilize nutrition and not prescription drugs.

      The majority of the doctors with MD behind their name do not subscribe to this idea. In today’s world finding a doctor that follows this principle is a difficult thing. Interestingly all the insurances are more than willing to spend big $$$$ to support these prescription writing doctors, but zero $$$$ for “real health maintenance”. If you want an ND or other naturalist doctor you gotta pay for it out of your pocket. The really big problem is that many seniors (who in many cases need it most) do not have the ready cash to pay so they are stuck in the MD doctor’s prescription world.

      Just blowing off a little steam here. Is this post relevant to the main topic of the web site? In a way. YES. It is relevant because for many floxies it was poor health that caused them to be so severely floxed. They trusted the system and were rewarded with being floxed.

      • L October 10, 2019 at 10:09 am Reply

        absolutely relevant! and I believe I posted before that I actually wrote to a couple large insurance carriers and medicare and told them they could save a FORTUNE by getting the FDA to prohibit the use of fluoroquinolones in all but life or death situations. I used myself as an example…tens of thousands paid out for a dozen doctors, lab tests, MRIs, etc. And I am one of millions! And I estimate that by now, 4 3/4 years out, I am up to around $60,000 paid out of pocket for the more than 100 IVs, multiple NDS and integrative MDs that did not take insurance, bazillion supplements, etc. (This is not money I had. I had to beg, borrow and haven’t yet stolen…)

  38. Don M October 10, 2019 at 7:53 am Reply

    Henk….. Or anyone with computer operating system problems. Regarding computer operating systems. https://www.xtra-pc.com/ Have you ever looked into this? It is one of the Linux operating systems installed on a flash drive. Just plug in the flash drive and do what it says to get it going. The flash drive can be moved from computer to computer and your information is carried along too. Of the different options I chose the cheapest one.

    I have an old laptop with Win Vista installed. For some reason I can’t access the Vista anymore. I was about ready to scrap it but it works great with the XtraPC. I paid the price and bought the XtraPC, but find that if you are computer savvy enough you can go online and find the website to download the Linux system of your choice to your own flash drive and have the same thing. Just be sure your flash drive has the capacity to do the things you want.
    Makes an old computer usable again and can give one a second computer pretty cheap.

    Neatest thing about it is that since the whole thing is on the flash drive it is not limited to one computer. It’s portable.

    • Don M October 10, 2019 at 8:21 am Reply

      Will it post? Can you see how an XtraPC works? Well…… lets try. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0E70jhTQHQ

      I post this because it can be a real $$$$ saver for many who want a second computer and have an old one just collecting dust. Or. Are having problems with their present computer and need a fix. It gives you a quick intro on how it works. Don’t over look the comment about it works in a computer that has NO hard drive.

      Not exactly about Fluoroquinlone Toxicity and how to cope with it but maybe a floxie on a tight budget would like it.

    • L October 10, 2019 at 10:13 am Reply

      Thanks for posting. Very cool!

    • Henk Noordhuizen October 10, 2019 at 12:05 pm Reply

      Thanks for the info,Don.I read that webpage but because it’s so easy,and much cheaper,to make your own Linux USB version,and USB sticks are dirt cheap,I’m preferring to make one myself,

      You can make a USB system stick when you have Linux Mint installed on a PC,or you can make one on a win PC,with help of a little app ,you have to download and install ( Etcher).By making such a USB start device you spare a quite a bit of money,or put the system on a USB stick with a much higer capacity,for the same money or even a bit less.Think,I’m gonna try that,sometime,but I intent to first do a full install on that PC I grabbed from the street,a while ago,besides Windows XP (already installed),and can then use both systems (I need Windows for my adventure games ;-))

      • Don M October 10, 2019 at 7:25 pm Reply

        Re the XtraPC on the stick. Yes it is cheaper to make your own but the XtraPC comes to you with several of the most wanted/used programs already installed on it. If one makes their own stick with the Linux system you must find the programs you want and install them. It is whether you want to spend the bucks for convenience or do it all yourself. Also it depends on one’s level of expertise when it comes to computers.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 11, 2019 at 1:48 pm

          Hi Don,I’ve done a search on this XtraPC,but what I found was very disappointing. First of all;even the biggest stick (64GB) contains hardly any software.You have to connect to internet for initial setup,and to install the apps you want/need.Nowhere I can find a list of which software is on those sticks.

          Then I went to Amazon,and read the reviews. There are 18 positive reviews,and 53 critical reviews.Never saw so little positive,and so many negative reviews.As far as I can remember,I never saw a product with so few possitive,and so many negative reviews,and the negative reviews being 3 times HIGHER than the possitive reviews.WOW!

          I hope that your stick works well for you;then,you’re among the few lucky ones.For me;I’m gonna make my own stick,whenever I need one,and for now,I stick with my Linux Mint Mate Live DVD,and as soon as I have time to fool around with that old PC I found,thrown away,I’ll do a full install,maybe even install Ubunta Studio as well,on that,or another old PC.I have one,on which I installed Mint,and Ubuntu studio,alongside each other,years ago,might update both.Linux,in all “tastes”,is free,and it’s nice to experiment with it.

          Oh,here’s a link to the Amazon reviews:

          https://www.amazon.com/Xtra-PC-Turn-your-outdated-like-new/product-reviews/B01NBVT7GL/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 11, 2019 at 1:58 pm

          Oh my word;of those 18 positive reviews,two of them wrote that it didn’t work for them,but in spite of this failure they gave the product…..five stars! Left:16 positive reviewers.Don,does this stick really work for you?

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 11, 2019 at 2:20 pm

          Oké;some of the negative reviewers really don’t know what to expect from that stick,nor,what they’re doing.One of those comments says it all:

          “My old computer has al lot of icon information that the XttaPC Pro doesnt*t have on my desktop page. So my old computer is better.” This one made my day ;-)) ;-))

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 11, 2019 at 2:41 pm

          Now I’ve read all negative reviews,and it ruined my hope for a better world. Stupidity is NOT rare; in fact,it’s all over the place! I agree that the marketing of XtraPC creates a wrong idea,with terms like “New PC” and “faster”,but I’m amazed at how many people don’t have the slightest idea of this stick can,and cannot do;it’s only ment to give you the opportunity to save files like MP3,or Avi’s.from a crashed system,NOT from a crashed HDD.And,unless you (can) use a simulator like WINE,you cannot play Win apps on a Linux system.

          So; this stick should work,for most of these people with negative reviews,but even when they get it to run,they will be disappointed because they bought it,based on their own wrong ideas.Still;it’s very simple,and much cheaper to make your own “XtraPC” stick,downloading the Linux Iso of your choice and follow the,quite simple,instructions on the install instruction page,on the Linux website.For me,the Live CD/DVD works great,but a full install is the best option,and You can leave your (working) Windows on that PC,as well,and use it when you need it.

        • L October 11, 2019 at 6:26 pm

          Glad you two posted all this. I won’t buy it. But next pc, I am getting Linux! No more windows!

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 12, 2019 at 3:22 am

          Hi L.You might do yourself a favor by downloading the ISO’s of the few most popular Linux makes;Mint,Ubunto,Ubunto Studio (for people who want to work on media like mmovie,photography,audio),and others.Mint has got three different makes;the newest one,with a lot of new gadgets,Mate (the most stable one),and one that’s perfectly suited for older and slower PC’s.You can burn them on DVD’s (some will fit a CD),and use them as a Live DVD,

          Only thing you have to do is setting the DVD reader as the first setup medium in your BIOS,put the DVD in the reader and start your PC.After it started you have a working Linux system for a first view,and,as long as you don’t do a full install,you can “play with Linux,also view your files on the windows partition,even play your music and videro files and listen to your audio,

          Done? Than you close Linux (just like you do in Windows),take out the DVD,and,but not neccesary,change the Bios back to HDD first.That’s all;now your PC is back to “normal”.
          As long as you don’t do the full install but only use these disks as a Live System,Linux won’t change anything in your Windows system.

  39. Dee October 10, 2019 at 1:19 pm Reply

    So I decided to join the FQ Facebook page just to get more info and feedback about healing from this mess! Wow! Did I get really shocked and scared when reading all those different posts! It is so discouraging to see all the suffering and Floxie’s that seem to really be battling with healing even years later. Have any of you been on that Facebook group? I’ve been part of it for a few days but I’m seriously thinking of dropping out of the group. It is sooooo much more stressful and negative then I ever anticipated. I know most people have good intentions and want to help but after reading different posts I felt like I might be sick forever. I guess I’m not cut out to read all that stuff about FQ toxicity and healing. In my mind I felt like healing was much more possible for “most” floxies? I hope I’m right! I know I may never be 100% but I hope I can feel “mostly” healed!!

    • Don M October 10, 2019 at 2:06 pm Reply

      Dee…… Your right. It is rather discouraging to go on the web sites and read about all the misery that Fluoroquinolone toxicity has caused. The only bright side is the more people post about their problems the more it causes people to be aware of the “many” problems that Fluoroquinolones cause. This may make more people aware of the devastation that Fluoroquinolones can cause. In the end it may be beneficial to some who avoid it.

    • Henk Noordhuizen October 10, 2019 at 2:09 pm Reply

      Dee,don’t let those stories scare the hell out of you.Don’t forget that people on Facebook and other Floxie groups are the ones that are most really heavily damaged.And most of those get in time,to a point where they have,more or less,managed to repair the damage,done by FQ’s (and the “docs” that prescriped them),and have controll over,or accepted,what’s left of the damage,done.

      There are many things you can do to improve your situation;magnesium and other supps,different therapee’s (Ozone,Near Infrared light therapee,and,above all:avoid everything that’s got Fluoride in it,like tea,some other foods and drinks,and,above all;FQ’s and other so called “Fluoride fortified” medicines.It will take time,and because of the many possible symptoms,and difference among Floxies,it’s impossible to make predictions,or give advices that fit all of them.That’s why the way back to an acceptable health is one of trial and error,for most of us.Wish you luck!

    • L October 10, 2019 at 2:10 pm Reply

      Are you referring to Fluoroquinolone Wall of Pain? Here’s another shocker. There are no fewer than a DOZEN flq facebook pages…. (and yes, I think if it is freaking you out, do not go there)

  40. L October 11, 2019 at 8:57 am Reply

    I realize everyone here is in different time zones, but there is a special three day (free ) event happening with some of the top names in natural health care, including both doctors and those who are strong proponents: Dr Merola, Mr. Robert F Kennedy, David Wolfe, Andy Wakefield, Elle MacPherson, Ty and Charlene Bollinger, Dr Axe, Del Bigtree, supermodel Carol Alt, Olivia Newton John. Again, this is free. You only need to enter your name and email address. Here is the link if you are interested. https://go.thetruthaboutcancer.com/2019-live-event/erin-elizabeth/?a_bid=e51b5c9c&a_aid=5a7c63998d855&fbclid=IwAR3tWP3Uj5NLFaSM4eL6x4tPJxtM2zmp82tZHCK05XJfpE5HF15tYZntXro

  41. L October 11, 2019 at 12:01 pm Reply

    Hey everyone…wanted to post about something that could be helpful for those of you dealing with pain and fibromyalgia like conditions (or autoimmune). I have been dealing with an issue that has so far (2 years) not responded to a multitude of treatments and a new integrative MD I saw recommended this…low dose naltrexone, on the chance that I may have “inherited” an autoimmune issue from the cipro. This appears to have virtually no side effects. It is not FDA approved IN THESE LOW DOSES, which means you will have to get it at a compounding pharmacy, so the cost is out of pocket. But it would be well worth it if it could alleviate your pain. Here is more information on its uses. https://www.amymyersmd.com/2017/05/low-dose-naltrexone/

  42. L October 11, 2019 at 12:04 pm Reply
  43. Henk Noordhuizen October 11, 2019 at 2:56 pm Reply

    I wonder;has anybody heard from Andrea,lately? Untill a few months ago,he was posting,almost every day,and now we haven’t heard of him,for quite a while.I really hope he’s doing fine! Maybe we should consider these possibillities:

    A. He’s cured (I really hope so!).

    B. He doesn’t want to communicate with us,anymore ( too much missery,and to little fun,here,right?).

    C. He’s bought an XtraPC stick ;-))

    Andrea,if you still read new postings on FloxieHope,then,please,let us know how you’re doing,will you? Thanks!

    Have a great weekend,everybody!

    • Don M October 13, 2019 at 4:12 pm Reply

      I second your request. Where is Andrea?

      • L October 13, 2019 at 5:22 pm Reply

        Third. I’d like to know too…..Hope everything is alright.

  44. Henk Noordhuizen October 12, 2019 at 3:26 am Reply

    Here’s a link to a very good documentary about the Statines scam,and about what really causes heart disease (an article from Dr.Mercola):

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/10/12/heart-of-the-matter-documentary.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1HL&utm_campaign=20191012Z2&et_cid=DM363531&et_rid=727076390

    • Don M October 12, 2019 at 6:32 am Reply

      …….WOW…… I watched the video (both parts 1 and 2) Through out it all I kept saying to myself is this video about statins or about fluoroquinolone antibiotics. The parallels were astounding! Excellent information.

      • Henk Noordhuizen October 14, 2019 at 2:49 am Reply

        Hi,Don,those video’s are not just about the Statins.or FQ’s;they are about the Farmafia,and the way they work.It’s a sad world,where these kind of things are “normal”.

        Same goes for the Global Warming hoax (now,because there has been no warming for over 18 years,calle “Global Change”).Avaaz (a petition site) kept on,sending me real males,loast months,about the extreme rightwinged “climat deniers” (a ridiculous term),with their lies;and they even get more time in the media than the believers.Well,I am such a “Climate Denier”,I’m a “Lefty” for almost my entire life,I hate lies and,in contrary to all those blind followers,I did my research.I read the leaked mails (Wikileaks) from IPCC,

        I’ve read the reports of how they came to a 97% consensus (same way the Farmafia proofs FQ’s and other poisons are “safe and efficient), and the way they manipulate data to proof their THEORY (data-manipulation,cherrypicking,etc.) The IPCC,and lots of universities and the industries have so much to gain with keeping this hoax alive;nothing will change here,soon.

        Those thousands of young people,protesting that governments don’t do enough,to save the world from Global Warming,are also absolute believers that medicines are effective,and safe.They runt to the doctor for anti-depressivants,whenever they have a bad day (and get real mental problems after the first pill they swallow;they believe everything,told them by the government.They are 100% prepared and ready for dictatorship.It seems that hardly any youngster,today,does do even a little bit of research on what “the other side”,the opponents have to say.”Their” opinions are the opinions,fed to them by the media.Who owns the media,owns the world.

        • L October 14, 2019 at 9:45 am

          I’m with you on the pharmafia, but please…there is just overwhelming evidence of climate change. Don’t want to get into a big discussion here, but there is just overwhelming evidence and if we don’t turn that ship around FAST, we are all screwed. https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

  45. Don M October 12, 2019 at 5:02 am Reply

    Will this open a can of worms and draw many comments? We will see. It is my understanding (being a simple lay person) that there are more than 2 types of cholesterol. Won’t even try to define the different types. My point is that (as I understand it all) there is a type of cholesterol called Protein “a” that is a very small particle cholesterol (much smaller than LDL cholesterol) and it is the culprit in causing blocked arteries. Protein “a” cholesterol is a type of cholesterol that tries to repair small fissures (cracks) in the arteries. See my explanation of why fissures form in the first place. In doing this it makes a deposit that is supposed to repair the artery damage. The problem with Protein “a” is that once it starts it does not know when to quit. It builds to where it begins to block the larger particle LDL cholesterol from moving through the artery and we then have what is called “heart disease”.

    I presented this hypothesis to my doctor and his explanation was. ….. There is no “prescription medication” that controls Protein “a”, so by using a statin to lower the overall cholesterol the Protein “a” is also lowered. Since there is no “medical prescription” that has been found to control the cholesterol called Protein “a” it is just ignored by the medical profession. This is the traditional medical solution to this problem. Outside the box (traditional medical world) it is found that supplements Proline and L-Lysine do have the ability to control Protein “a”. Naturally this is not accepted as valid by the traditional medical profession. YES there is a laboratory test for this type of cholesterol but since they do not have a “pill” that can be prescribed to counteract it “traditional medicine” seldom requests it.

    Why do fissures (cracks) form in the arteries? According to Linus Pauling (a scientist) these fissures are a form of low grade “scurvy”. Scurvy is a disease of the arteries that is caused by lack of Vitamin C. In the old days sailors acquired this because they would run out of the stores they had that were Vitamin C rich. When their body’s store of Vitamin C was depleted they acquired scurvy, Their arteries would develop fissures and their blood would leak out these fissures and they died of scurvy. The “primate” body does not produce it’s own Vitamin C so this vitamin must be replenished from and outside source.

    So. ….. Statins are modern medicine’s way of dealing with this issue. They just try to gloss over or ignore the idea that it is really Protein “a” and not LDL cholesterol that is the basis of the arteries getting clogged with cholesterol. A buildup of Protein”a” causes the (larger particle) LDL cholesterol to jamb up and clog the artery.

    Bottom line. ….. Investigate Protein “a” and L-Lysine and Proline to control it. The answers are on the Internet.

    • Henk Noordhuizen October 12, 2019 at 6:12 am Reply

      The problem is not the cholesterol;there is NO bad cholesterol.The problem is,in fact,a deficiency of Magnesium,Vitamine C and anti-oxidants,and a high level of free calcium in the blood. The magnesium deficiency causes stiffened arteral walls,which,in turn,causes a high blood pressure and a higher risk for arterial wall damage.The LDL comes in to form a bandage to cover the damages untill they are healed.

      The low magnesium level isn’t able to lower the calcium level and transport calcium to where it belongs;in the bones.The free calcium binds very easily to the LDL,and forms a plaque;that’s why this plaque was,in the past (pre-statin time) called artery calcification.

      Statines are not a solution;it doesn’t solve the real cause,and in fact it causes lots of averse reactions.Supplementation of magnesium,vit.D and K2 are the real (but cheap and not patentable) solution.Lower calcium intake might help,as well,but a too low calcium intake has it’s own risks.

      In GB,research done some years ago showed that “An apple,a day” balances HDL and LDL (almost) as efficient as statins,but without the multiple negative sides of statins.Healthy,tasty and safe,but not patentable,and cheap.Add one egg a day (or more ;-)) and make your doctors live miserable :-))

      I’ve read about trials,years ago,where these plaques did disappear when magnesiumsupplements were used.Does somebody know where I can find (back) this/these article(s)?Then,please,place us the links,here.Thank you.

      • Don M October 12, 2019 at 6:57 am Reply

        Bottom line…………….. Choose a doctor that is not in the pocket of the industry and does not have his head up his xxx. Very hard to do now days. My doctor (who is a trained chiropractor, an MD degree, is well versed as a nutritionist and has now moved to an organization where he can take advantage of his homeopathic knowledge without the peer pressure of the industry) told me after one of my physicals where I received the lab results that my cholesterol was above the maximum standards set by the industry that he MUST (for him to stay within the guide lines) prescribe a statin for me. His follow up comment was “Whether you take it or not is up to you”. Evidently he could not “safely” tell me his opinion. For the record…… I never picked up the prescription.

        May not be exactly what your looking for but I did a “DuckDuckgo” search and came up with this. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=magnesium+supplements+eliminate+arterial+plaques&t=crhs&ia=web
        Still it is interesting information.

  46. Don M October 14, 2019 at 6:20 am Reply

    Just something to consider. FQ toxicity (poisoning) symptoms exacerbated by EHS exposure. What’s EHS or EMF exposure? Exposure to all the things around us that emit radio waves. We have WiFi in our homes, a cell phone that is constantly on and close by, cell towers everywhere and the list goes on and on. Are these things contributing to our problems with Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome? Read this short article and watch the videos . https://www.emfanalysis.com/ehs-symptoms/
    It is a highly disputed issue because of all the $$$$ involved.
    Could you feel a bit better if you took stock of these things and eliminated as many as possible?

    • Henk Noordhuizen October 14, 2019 at 7:17 am Reply

      Hi Don,I don’t hace Wifi,in my home,nor Bluetooth.Telephone,PC,everything is wired,here.I have a cellphone,which is always switched off,except,when really needed.

      Of course I cannot avoid the celltower waves,and things get worse when 5G is fully functional,if not stopped by the people.I have little hope for that;as I wrote in my last post,the new generation is,most of them,extremely naïve,and focussed on the ease of new technology,and would offer their health and both legs for 5G,and the promise of an even faster connection and download.

    • L October 14, 2019 at 10:04 am Reply

      I have been reading and watching so much in the last several months re the dangers of EMFs. I have also been writing local reps, members of congress and others. There are THOUSANDS of studies showing harm and none showing they are safe. and yes, many side effects are similar to as well as exascerbating to flq toxicity. Here is a link to numbers of studies done. https://bioinitiative.org/

      • Don M October 14, 2019 at 12:24 pm Reply

        L…… Interesting reading. Something that bothers me is the way the push is on for older people to have and alert medallion on a lanyard around their neck. They all emit a radio signal and naturally they are kept on all the time. This can’t be “healthy”.

        I have a 5 star emergency alert but it is in a (home made) vinyl case that has a foil layer in it. I also do my best to keep it close but not on me when at home.

        The studies are out there but it seems that people want the convenience more than they want to maintain their health. Out and out ignorance also enters into it. People don’t understand and don’t seem to care that they don’t understand.

        It really bothers me to see all the members of my family completely ignore this issue.

        • L October 14, 2019 at 1:30 pm

          Yes the closer to the body , the worse the effects. If you hold an Rf meter next to a smartwatch, it will go into the “danger” zone. Once again, not unlike big pharma, it is all about greed. 5G is a nightmare unfolding. Because it requires hundreds of thousands of small cell towers (not to mention thousands of satellites they plan!!!) , it means 24/7 radiation exposure. No where to hide. And “faster downloads” is just the sales pitch. What it is really about is a few international corporations in a trillion dollar industry based on information gathering and surveillance. Their goal is to have EVERYTHING in your home “smart” tagged…and not just tv, washer, fridge, etc…EVERYTHING. I saw an ad for Pampers with a chip. Just great. Right next to baby’s skin. Complete insanity. (In fact Dr Martin Pall at Washington State University calls it all “criminal insanity.” )

          I have heard Dafna Tachover, a specialist in all this, speak three times now. (She herself already has suffered from EMF radiation, even pre-5g) She is a former computer and communications specialist with the Israeli army and now is an attorney who fights cases trying to keep these 5g towers off school properties. One school in Ripon CA already removed a small cell tower after four children developed cancer. And Dafna showed us studies that showed an increase in cancers according to wear the phone is kept…more breast cancers in women that carry it in their bra. (and someone even MAKES bras with little pockets just for that purpose!). More testicular cancer in males who carry it in their front pocket, and so on.

          Get an RF meter and show it to your relatives. (I have the Cornet) Although not all alerts use wifi….Are you sure yours does?

        • Don M October 14, 2019 at 3:26 pm

          L…… My alert uses the same system as the cell phones. Here in the US it is Verizon so anywhere there is a Verizon cell phone signal my 5 star alert by Great Call will connect to the 5 star specialist. By holding the button down longer it will bypass the 5 stare specialist and go directly to 911. Good system but as with any radio signal bad news for the health.

        • L October 14, 2019 at 5:29 pm

          Does it have something akin to “airplane mode?” (so it is not continually receiving signals)

        • joanneb4 October 14, 2019 at 7:31 pm

          Can we use aloe vera juice or gel or powder?

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 15, 2019 at 1:29 pm

          I think so,but I’m not 100% sure (after all,sometimes floxies react in unexpected ways on things).You might give it a try,and start with a tiny bit,and when there’s no negative reaction,increase the dose/amount in little steps.And please,keep us informed;others might benefit from your experiences,good or bad.

        • joanneb4 October 15, 2019 at 7:34 pm

          I’m just wondering if we can use shampoo that contains aloe Vera juice or aloe Vera powder? I can’t find a shampoo or soap or moisturizer that work for me.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 16, 2019 at 1:26 am

          I don’t use any shampoo,or other substance on my skin,anymore,but make my own cocos-oil soap.Soemtimes I use olive-oil soap;that’s the next best thing for me,but the only soap that doesn;t increase the bad conition of my skin (my face,being the worst) is this cocos-oil soap,

          The first antibiotics course I had ruined my skin,in 2004,but after years it slowly recovered,and then,in 2016,Cipro made it worse than it ever was,and untill now there’s no real sign of improvement.My home-made soap keeps it from getting worse.I parfumate it with ( Atlantic) Cedar oil,which is known for it’s positive effect on a problematic skin.

          Soap calculators,and websites about how to make soap are all over the web;just do a search on “how to make soap”.

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 18, 2019 at 1:59 am

          Like I wrote before;it’s not likely that Aloë Vera products will cause problems,but,to be shure,first try a little amount (you could rub a tiny drop on your skin).When there’s no reaction;it will probably be safe.Be carefull,during the first uses,and stop,when unwanted reactions appear.

          You asked which toothpaste I use (can’t find back that question,but here’s the answer). I use natural,Fluoride free toothpastes for over 30 years,and since the last 5-6 years Lavera (Classic) toothpaste is my favorite;their other toothpastes are also fluorid free,the Classic has a mild taste;I don’t like a strong pepermint taste.Some other toothpastes are so heavily pepermint flavoured that it literally takes ones breath away :-((

        • Don M October 15, 2019 at 8:18 am

          L….. Nope. It has one button and is either on or off. If left of it takes time to boot up and link up. This defeats it’s purpose of being an instant way to connect with help.

  47. Andrea October 14, 2019 at 2:53 pm Reply

    Hey guys, I haven’t posted here for ages. Hope everyone of you is doing good, well at least in floxie terms…
    Me, I’m still struggling with the same old issues. One thing is really bothering me lately ( from last december actually) is the GI issues I’m experiencing (bloating, constipation, loose stool etc.) after using some probiotic that contains Saccaromyce Boulardii.
    Anyway, long story short, last week I’ve run into this video (I’ll post the link below) about this doctor. He seems to be very concious about FQ damage and, from what I understand, he kinda developed a protocol to try to help his patients. Now, I don’t know if he’s just money driven, and he found in floxies his “golden goose”, but I wanted to share with you this info.
    In particular I was interested in trying this supplement, Betaine HCL, to find out if it could help me with my GI issues. Have any of you ever tried it?

    Anyway, there’re plenty of other video on youtube on the same topic

    Andrea

    • L October 14, 2019 at 5:25 pm Reply

      Good to hear from you! We were starting to worry…

      So my take on this guy is mixed. First, to say that if you don’t have 2-3 movements a day, you are not normal, is just not true. This is from Dr. Axe. “Having trouble going to the bathroom more than a few times a week, or going too many times per day (more than three), is considered by most experts to be a sign of abnormal bowel movements.” Second, I do agree that SO much damage is connected to the gut, but fixing the gut will not likely help with things like nerve damage and some other side effects.

      Third, he claims that people get injured by fluoroquinolones because they had digestive issues before taking them. Not sure that is true. I think people are more likely to be floxed because a) they reached their threshold of tolerance b) they were low on magnesium c) they are genetically inclined and d) we just don’t know.

      AS for HCL, my ND did put me on it when I was first floxed, and I was on it for almost a year. It helped my gut. Period.

      • Don M October 14, 2019 at 8:06 pm Reply

        Just a comment about low HCL. Any liquid ingested 20 minutes prior to or during a meal will dilute the HCL that the stomach is producing. Don’t do these two things and your natural HCL is bound to be higher. I don’t disagree with taking extra HCL but why dilute it by drinking liquids during or a half hour after a meal. No one seems to pay any attention to this.

        • Andrea October 14, 2019 at 8:23 pm

          Thanks Don. Yeah, I’ve always heard that you shouldn’t drink or at least drink too much during a meal. Have you ever tried HCL yourself?

      • Andrea October 14, 2019 at 8:20 pm Reply

        Hey L! I was sure you’d be the first to answer my question. 🙂 Thanks!
        Yeah…there’s something about this guy that doesn’t seem too right.
        I’m glad to read Betaine HCL helped you, but I also remember you telling me that Saccaromices Boulardi helped too, wich in my case was the start for all my GI mess.
        I was completely fine with my digestive system. Having at least one bowel movement per day. No bloating, no gas. Even during my worst time, I was completely normal down there. I made the mistake to take the SB, which has powerful antidiarrheal properties, and it messed my gut bad, and the problem is that I could never recover from it. It’s like when some fellow floxie start to feel a little better, then maybe he takes an aspirin or some other over the counter drug, and everything goes down the tubes again, or maybe even worse.

        • L October 14, 2019 at 9:28 pm

          I think it was someone else who had success with SB. I did try it, and it didn’t hurt me, but I remember someone else posting that it really helped them. It didn’t do anything for me one way or another. This is from Dr Mark Hyman “Then you’ll want to repopulate your digestive tract with good bacteria. You can do that by taking very high-potency probiotics (look for at least 25 billion live CFU’s from diversified strains of Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium, and Saccharomyces boulardii), taken twice a day for one to two months. Start slowly and observe how the probiotics affect your gut. In some cases, certain individuals may need to delay probiotics until their gut is more intact.” Not sure what happened with you….

        • Henk Noordhuizen October 15, 2019 at 3:20 am

          Hi Andrea,great to see you back,here.Just Like the others,I was a little worried.

          It’s not supprising that the Saccaromices Boulardi worked for L,but didný work for you.First of all;people are different;so is their gut flora.But the main difference between you and L. was,the fact that his GF was,I guess (don’t know the details) out of balance,while yours was perfectly oké,like you wrote.By using the Saccaromices Boulardi,you probably disturbed this balance,and it didnt manage to restore itself untill now.

          Have you tried the Lactospore (Saccharomyces boulardii) yet? It is dirt cheap,and it works great,for me.It From WebMD (not the best source,but..):

          “Early evidence shows that using a specific probiotic product (Lactol, Bioplus Life Sciences Pvt. Ltd.) containing Bacillus coagulans and fructo-oligosaccharides daily for 15 days of every month for 6 months might modestly decrease stomach pain and gas in people with potentially harmful bacteria in the intestine.”

          Well,my Lactospore does not contain fructo-oligosaccharides,so,I use them seperately ( Inulin powder).I still buy both from Bulk Powders;they have good quality,and a very friendly roiced products,and I never had a problem since I started buying some of my supps,there.Since a while they have a dutch website,and I just did a search for you;they have an italian website,as well:

          https://www.bulkpowders.it/lactospore-compresse.html

          I used Betaine HCL,for a while,adviced by my local supps shop,but it gave me stomach pain,and didn’t work well for my acid reflux.Then,after reading a lot of anecdotal stories,I started experimenting with a glass of water and 1-2 tablespoons of apple cider vinager,and with citrus fruits.Well,the vinager helped a bit but I don’t think that drinking shortly befoere,or directly after a meal is a good idea,like L. wrote,so I settled for the citrusfruits,When the reflux starts,1/2-1 hour after my meal,I eat 1-2 mandarins,or a mineola (my favorites :-)) ,and,after the burning sensation,sometimes,gets a bit worse,the refluxes rapidly disappear. A medicine with a great taste!

          In the past I’ve learned that eating fruit after a meal is a bad idea (never mix fruits and vegetables,was the “wisdom” of the time),It was the food trend that followed the macrobiotic/bio-organic trend,and it adviced to not mix certain foods from different groups (Protein,carbs,and fat).Well;here they were wrong.For people,having a too low stomach acid production,citrusfruits,aand maybe other acidic fruits,are a great and healthy solution!

          I hope you will find a way to solve your stomach- and intestinal problems soon,Andrea,and I hope that this info migh help you.Please,keep us informed.Ciao!

  48. Don M October 15, 2019 at 8:12 am Reply

    I was given this by a “naturalist chiropractor”. https://www.metagenics.com/ultragi-replenish A very expensive concoction. A 2 pound 11 ounce (14 servings) bag costs $100. It along with a bulking agent like Psyllium Husk and a broad spectrum probiotic seemed to do the things it is touted to do but a bit expensive. Just passing on a bit of information.

    • Henk Noordhuizen October 15, 2019 at 8:55 am Reply

      Wow,Don,$ 100 for 14 servings (574 grams)? Over $200,every month? And than this warning?

      “WARNING: Consuming this product can expose you to chemicals including lead, which are known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. For more information go to http://www.P65warnings.ca.gov/food

      Must be very expensive peas,they’ve used to make this stuff ;-))

      • L October 15, 2019 at 9:33 am Reply

        That prop 65 warning is on virtually everything. They were a bit overzealous. Many supplements I buy have it. It was a well intended law that got out of control. Pretty much anything that comes out of the ground has a bit of lead or some other trace mineral in it. https://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-pro-con2-2009nov02-story.html

      • Don M October 15, 2019 at 10:07 am Reply

        Henk….. Yup…… Seems like everything connected to “medical” is outrageous in pricing. 20 years ago my retirement income was considered reasonable but since it has “seriously” not kept up with the times it is now “woefully” behind. A bit interesting how the doctors’ offices are very flippant about $100 charges. If they are not making $100 or more off your visit they seem to lose interest in your treatment. Even sometimes seem to be offended when one tries to mitigate the expenses. My Medicare is through an HMO and it has no copay for my primary doctor. Only problem here is that the current medical system has little to offer in the way of effective treatment. Most anything worthwhile is outside what they will pay so in effect it is nearly worthless for anything other than a major problem that falls within their guide lines.

        I sometimes have to have the feeling. “Lets screw the old people”.

        • L October 15, 2019 at 10:18 am

          I WISH my doctor visits were $100. My former integrative MD stopped taking insurance and now charges $350 a visit. I can no longer see him. It seems that most of the integrative ones have moved away from insurance. I can’t blame them. It’s such a hassle and the insurance companies always want to deny everything and they add no value to healthcare. The one I see now was 295 for the first visit, but follow ups are 195. That’s about on par with naturopaths I have seen. But I will only go to a “regular” allopath if there is no alternative for that particular field, eg ENT.

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