Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa




25,079 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Michael November 14, 2019 at 10:57 pm Reply

    Here’s another interesting study. Combo of pyridoxal 5′-phosphate (B6), metafolin and methylcobalamin reverses diabetic peripheral neuropathy. More or less what you have been saying A.Coleman:

    “Agents used to treat symptoms of diabetic peripheral neuropathy (DPN) are only palliative, not disease modifying. Although studies of monotherapy with L-methylfolate, methylcobalamin, or pyridoxal 5′-phosphate suggest that each of these bioavailable B vitamins may reverse the pathophysiology and symptoms of DPN, data on the efficacy of this combination therapy are limited. Therefore, we assessed the efficacy of an oral combination of L-methylfolate, methylcobalamin, and pyridoxal 5′-phosphate for improving epidermal nerve fiber density (ENFD) in the lower extremity of patients with DPN. Eleven consecutive patients with type 2 diabetes with symptomatic DPN were assessed for ENFD at the calf by means of skin punch biopsy and then placed on twice daily oral-combination L-methylfolate, methylcobalamin, and pyridoxal 5′-phosphate. After approximately 6 months of treatment, patients underwent follow-up biopsy. At the end of their treatment, 73% of patients showed an increase in calf ENFD, and 82% of patients experienced both reduced frequency and intensity of paresthesias and/or dysesthesias. This preliminary study suggests that combination L-methylfolate, methylcobalamin, and pyridoxal 5′-phosphate increases ENFD in patients with DPN.”


  2. Michael November 15, 2019 at 2:22 pm Reply

    I posted it because it is possible that not just diabetics but those with FQ induced nerve damage may benefit from this combo. I’m certainly trying it myself. I have 2 of the 3 methylated B vitamin forms but I haven’t added P-5-P yet.

  3. Dee November 15, 2019 at 3:29 pm Reply

    Saff. Thanks for asking how I am!!! I’m probably doing a touch better 2 weeks after the Lidocaine???? Still have increased pins and needles and “itching” which I never really had much before??? I think the Lidocaine brought it on as part of flared up neuropathy!! What do you think??? I am staying hopeful that this flare will be just that and that my neuropathy will improve! Your story of having a reaction to Lidocaine and getting better in 3 months gives me hope!! It keeps me having faith that this increased neuropathy will disappear in time!!! Glad to hear you are 90% recovered!!! How bad were you floxed and how long did it take you to get to 90%???? Keeping the faith!!!

  4. Andrea November 15, 2019 at 3:39 pm Reply

    Hey guys, I got a question.
    I know many of us would rather take a bullet in the head before taking an antibiotic again, but, is there someone who ever took an antibiotic after being floxed? And if so, can you please share your experience. Me personally, in almost 3 years, I’ve never taken any AB (touching wood) but I did took some antiviral drugs, and I did just fine (again touching wood).
    Please answer, it could be very important for the future.
    P.S. I already know, Lisa made a list of POSSIBLY SAFE antibiotics after being floxed, but I need some actual testimony. Thank you.

    • Sheila rogers November 15, 2019 at 5:22 pm Reply

      Yes I have taken antibiotics afterwards, I didn’t know at the time I took them that I had been floxed but I don’t remember having any issues, however yesterday I went to the dentist and they put fluoride on my teeth after cleaning and I have felt a bit off today. I have taken the meds for flu I can’t remember what it was called but it may have been Tamiflu and a Zpac, I have taken Macrobid for the UTI I was originally put on Cipro for and amoxicillin, and a few others – I have been suffering since 2012 so I have had plenty of time to need antibiotics for things. So far I can say none affected me negatively except Cipro and it took 2 years for Cipro to damage me but when it did it changed my life forever I can hardly move my body it feels so heavy…….

      • Michael November 15, 2019 at 7:19 pm Reply

        Hey, I had 6 weeks of Augmentin (Amoxicillin-clavulanic acid 500/25) max dose three times per day directly after 4 weeks of Ciprofloxacin this July. And before the CIpro I had 4 weeks of Azithromycin and 2 weeks of Doxycycline….. for bacterial prostatitis.

        So yeah….. I think the augmentin was OK (for me) but my GI tract got slaughtered. I had a gurgly tummy and horrific loose motions for about 3 months after. That was despite taking probiotics at max dose (the ones you put in the refrigerator) throught the course of antibiotics and to this day (4 months out).

        • Andrea November 16, 2019 at 3:49 am

          Thank you for sharing Michael. So sorry for your GI issue. I’m currently dealing with lots of GI issues myself.

        • Don M November 16, 2019 at 11:04 am

          Michael………….. You document the number of different antibiotics you have had. Sounds a lot like my past history. Do something. Google “what is a persistent bacteria”. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3710330/
          After you have learned what a persistent is research D-Mannose.
          D-Mannose is not an antibiotic but it helps to mitigate any kind of UTI. The ball is in your court now. Learn how to minimize the use of antibiotics. I hope this will help you.

        • Michael November 16, 2019 at 4:43 pm

          Don M , yes I think that’s what I had. I had Cipro – R E Coli bacterial prostatitis. So the Cipro was basically useless and screwed me up.

          However, I think the 6 weeks of Augmentin did the job. I am currently 3 months symptom free from a prostate point of view.

          I am taking gabapentin and nortriptyline right now, but largely symptom free also from floxing just over 4 months out. Although I do still have burning pains in my feet and lower legs, they are more or less under control with the gabapentin and nortriptyline. Hopefully a few more months and this will be over… you never know though. I’m just hopefull that’s all and pray.

          Thanks for the advice.

      • Andrea November 16, 2019 at 3:50 am Reply

        Thank you Sheila. So sorry to read you’re in so much pain.

    • Barbara Arnold November 16, 2019 at 12:03 am Reply

      I have taken Amoxicillin about three times in the last 5 years after being floxed without any problems. I am actually just finishing a 10 course now after getting a throat infection. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.

      • Andrea November 16, 2019 at 3:51 am Reply

        Thanks a lot Barbara.

    • Madge Hirsch November 16, 2019 at 6:06 pm Reply

      I took a 14 day course of Augmentin iv then oral for acute diverticulitis. I was fine except for diarrhoea. This was helped by taking saccharomyces boulardii. This was about 30 months after my last exposure to Cipro.

      • Andrea November 16, 2019 at 7:30 pm Reply

        That’s curious. I never had any GI problems since being floxed, until I took a particular probiotic, called enterelle, that contains Saccaromyces boulardii. It’s been a year and I’m still suffering from severe constipation, extreme bloating, and sometimes diarrhea. I’m starting to think it caused a candida overgrowth in my gut. I know it is used to treat candida, but since I didn’t have any problem before taking it, I think it caused the opposite effect. I’m thinking of taking fluconazole, and see what happens, but I’m too scared. What do you think? Any experience with anti fungal drugs?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 17, 2019 at 2:42 am

          Andrea,have you tried to treat your constipation with Psyllium husk? I had a double gut bleeding,caused by the Flecainide Acetaat,I still use.The fact that I had a bladder infection,caused by an enormous kidney stone that was stuck in halfway between my bladder and the toilet,at the same time led my doc to prescripe me the Cipro (rest is history).

          To treat the constipation (Flecainide caused),the specialist in the hospital prescribed Macrogol (a synthetic fiber),which almost ruined my social life.It worked,and I didn’t get bleedings again.The specialist,whom I never saw,suspected a “normal bleeding”,and a diverticulitis; the pain in my left underbelly was there for a long time,on and of,and nevr came back after I used the extra fibers,but the extremely stinky farts it caused drove me crazy,and I was ashamed when other people around (shopping,paying visits,etc.

          So,after a while I decided to try Psyllium,instead of the Macrogol,had even read a lot of good reviews (one man even got the advice,from a new doc,to change from the Macrogol,his former doc gave him,to Psyllium,because this is a natural fiber;it’s the grinded Psyllium seed husk.I bought some and it worked exactly as well as the (patented) Macrogol,and with NO stinky farts.

          I still use it and I’m really happy with it.One thing to mention:when the time between my main meal (around noon),and taking the Psyllium is too long,next day the first part of my stool will be quite hard and the last part is loose,so,it is better taking it shortly after finishing your meal.Oh,and it is quite cheap,but not everywhere;you will have to do a (web) search to find a cheap source.

        • Andrea November 17, 2019 at 5:54 am

          Henk, I think I already tried a supplement that contains, with other stuff in it, phisillum. It did nothing for me. My problem ARE the fibers, or to say it better, I’m now unhable to digest them. The more vegetables, vegetable soups, or any other fiber rich food I eat, the more I’m constipated and bloated. So I have to take probiotics, which give me diarrhea. On the other hand, if I eat crap, junk food, or things that don’t contain much fiber (not really healthy) my digestion improve quite a bit. But I don’t want to eat unhealthy food on a regular basis.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 17, 2019 at 9:17 am

          Hi Andrea,there’s something very strange going on in your guts ??

          Psyllium is not a supplement;it’s a form of undigestible fibers.That’s why these are used in case of constipation;the fibers absorb water and make stools softer,and easier to pass through.There are different kinds of fiber;the other kind is digestable and contains important vitamines and minerals.Both are essential for good gut- and overall health.

          Probiotics should not cause diarrea;most fo the time they’re used to STOP diarrea.

          It’s such a shame that,untill you started that probiotic course (the one with 3 stages) nothing was wrong with your guts and stool.As far as I remember you started that course to gain health.I really hope you’ll find a solution soon.You might try these Psyllium husk fibers (one spoon,in a glass of water);those will probably help the constipation,and the bloating,but might not bring change in the diarrea.You’ll only know by trying.

        • Andrea November 18, 2019 at 2:26 am

          Henk, the supplement I took, was a mix of everything that should treat constipation. It also contains phisillum. I’ve checked the lable. But it’s in capsules. So maybe there’s too little of it. I don’t know if it it’s gonna help me anyway, even at the right dosage. I was able to digest everything, until I took that probiotic, which contains S. Boulardii. S.B. has powerful anti diarrheal properties, so I shouldn’t have taken it anyways. The problem now is that I can’t heal from that

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 18, 2019 at 7:42 am

          Andrea,unless there is 15 grams !) of Psyllium husk powder in that capsule;it won’t help.The little bit that fits in a capsuke of the usual size is totaly useless.

        • Madge Hirsch November 18, 2019 at 6:47 pm

          Not since I was young. Can’t remember the effects.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 17, 2019 at 3:19 am Reply

        Thanks,Madge and Michael;I’ll put Amoxicillin,and as a second,Augmentin,on my list of possibly safest antibiotics.Somebody mentioned a list.Lisa made,of possibly safe B’s but I can’t find it.Can anyone place a link,please?Thanks!

        Making a list of natural antibiotics that proved to work and are safe for Floxies might be a good idea too.But I asked before,for help on a list of everything,from meds to foods and drinks,containing Fluoride,and got no reaction.What a shame;the floxie society,in my opinion,really needs such lists!

  5. Sandz W. November 15, 2019 at 7:08 pm Reply

    I am not trying to bring anyone down by what I say ever. I have only built, and will never stop building up someone. I just spent almost a year on Twitter doing just that. Well over 20,000 messages later (would have been in the 100s of 1,000s range if I had not been censored) and wanting only great things for others, my Family, and myself, not ever staying bitter, also hoping that for You very well, I can honestly say that considering the idea of being a follower of Christ, not wanting to leave my Loved/needing Family, or myself wanting to give up, I live in consistency with the idea that I do not want to go on with this life, going on about fifteen years now, directly, positivingly, and provingly so, that it is surely because of repeated administerings of floroquinolone antibiotics this is so, not even from the many things that hammer and hammered me down in this life placed other than this monsterous drug. The rejection of proper multiple diagnoses outcomes for You, Families benefit, and mine, is well over more than a slap in the face. With my many great pains, I walk without an assist, other than Family and Friends, music as well as a bit of Freedom. Thank GOD for those and Spirit, also the best to You. Let us go on, as in like together, Friends. Never quitting. Sandz W…

  6. Andrea November 17, 2019 at 8:09 am Reply

    Hey guys, I’ve already touched this topic before, but I don’t think anyone answered with a personal experience, so I triy it again, sorry to be tedious…Hve anyone of you ever had some experience with fluconazole or any other anti fungal drug? It’s important for me, because I’m starting to think that my GI issues can be caused by a yeast infection or candida. I know fluconazole side effects are nasty, but since some of us have been lucky with even some course of antibiotic and antiviral drugs (myself), maybe I could be lucky with it too. What do you think? Are anti fungal drugs more dangerous than antibiotics or antiviral drugs?
    As always , thank you

    • L November 17, 2019 at 12:02 pm Reply

      I would first try a natural antifungal like colloidal silver or oil of oregano or tea tree oil (even coconut oil). Some of those RX antifungals can be pretty nasty. I seem to recall someone on this site having issues with it.

      • Andrea November 18, 2019 at 2:20 am Reply

        Ok L. Thank you. I’ll see. I’m so discouraged right now. But thank you a lot anyway.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 18, 2019 at 8:13 am Reply

        Andrea’s problem is: there’s no diagnose,so,it’s not at all sure there’s a fungal infection going on.I really don’t know what’s best for him,right now,except from the ulra-safe Psyllium option.The natural anti-fungals you mentioned are indeed pretty safe but do influence the gut flora,which probably isn’t optimal,right now,already.This could cause even more confusion.

  7. Don M November 17, 2019 at 9:18 am Reply

    A finishing comment from a very interesting article: “You must be your own fiercest advocate when it comes to your health. Walk away from medical professionals who dismiss your concerns, and don’t quit searching until you find someone who will truly partner with you to find the answers you deserve.”

    Story of chronic and severe pain experienced by a Fox News anchor person.
    The comment relates well to the situation that most floxed people encounter.

    • Andrea November 18, 2019 at 2:16 am Reply

      Very interesting Don. And infuriating too…
      From the article: “He told me he thought I was being too emotional,” she recalled. “That put me into a tailspin — I’m desperate for any lifeline any diagnosis, any treatment to help me through this nightmare, and my doctor was questioning my sanity. That was really hurtful.” Here we go again. These dumb f***s…when they don’t have the answer, Wich by the way, happens most of the time, they basically call you crazy, or emotionally unstable. You’re overreacting. I’m curious to understand how many “real” doctors are left on this planet. They even fail to diagnose the simplest illnesses sometimes. I remember last year, when I went to see a dermatologist, he confused a condition on my skin for another and he was putting me on the wrong medication. If it wasn’t for “doctor Google” and my concern about swallowing pills like candies, I had probably trusted him and swallowed the wrong pill again. Luckily I was able to recognize it by myself and choose the right medication. But that’s disheartening to say the least.
      Another quote from the article:
      “I felt like no one was going to help me,” she added. I think EVERYONE who has been floxed can relate to this sentence.

      • Don M November 18, 2019 at 5:42 am Reply

        Andrea ….. Yup. The reason I posted it is that although she had a different problem her treatment by the medical establishment is a perfect example of what floxies are subjected to.

      • L November 18, 2019 at 10:38 am Reply

        Yeah, I was called crazy, emotional, hysterical, you name it. When one of the last MDs I saw made some snarky comment about not relying on dr google, I told him “dr google” saved me life,” and walked out

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 18, 2019 at 10:56 am

          Andrea,that’s why,since a few years,the Farmafia it lobbying for more control over the WWW;they want to get legal permission to filter “fake medical news” websites.We should tell them that there are a lot of people who think they’re doctors,but that that’s all just “between the ears”.

        • Don M November 18, 2019 at 11:46 am

          L…. There is information on Dr. Google. A lot of it if you want to look for it. Stuff you would never hear from the 5 minute visit with the doctor.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 19, 2019 at 2:02 am

          Even a lot more than he could,or would tell you if the both of you had all the time in the world! But be carefull;there’s a lot of junk science,on the web,too.

  8. Bruce November 18, 2019 at 7:19 pm Reply

    Does anyone know any treatment for eye muscle pain from Cipro?
    I have pain in the outer corners of the eyes. It sometimes causes headaches. Eye doctors don’t know how to treat this.

    • L November 18, 2019 at 8:13 pm Reply

      Eye muscle pain or nerve pain? If it is nerve pain you might want to try gabapentin. You also might want to look into low does naltrexone. (It is so low dose it has to be compounded, but virtually no side effects.)

      • Bruce November 19, 2019 at 7:53 pm Reply

        Thanks, I was figuring it was muscle pain, as it is slightly more aggravated if I move my eyes around. Is there a way to tell between eye muscle or nerve pain?

        • L November 19, 2019 at 9:06 pm

          I’m not sure with the eye

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 19, 2019 at 2:11 am Reply

      Most of my eye pain was like somebody sticking needles and pins in my eyeballs,but I also had the feeling that my eye muscles tried to tear my eyeballs apart.I used my magnetic pulser on it,and it helped for the pain.I also rubbed my eues,gently (since my first AB course I have hay fever,and my eyes sometimes itch like crazy).This gentle massage might have helped the muscles to relax.Sometimes the pain comes back,but not as severe as it was in the beginning.

      Also had double vision for over a year.This,too,sometimes is back,but way less severe,and only for short moments,not longer than 1-2 minutes.Time heals,even when you’re floxed.

      • Bruce November 19, 2019 at 7:57 pm Reply

        Thanks, What kind of magnetic pulser?
        So you would just close your eyes and then rubbed them gently?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 20, 2019 at 1:00 pm

          I first built one,myself;the info how to do that can be found on bobbeck,com.I just saw that this website is unavailble at the moment but good info about Bob beck and his Protocol,including a describtion of the devices he developed,is here:


          Funny;I didn’t remember but I just discovered that I placed a manual for building a magnetic pulser,the Bob Beck way,as a comment on that website (chrisbeatcancer),6 years ago;it’s the first comment when you scroll down :-)) I’ve placed the same manual here,on FloxieHope,a few times as well.I still use the devices (two homebuilt’s,laying around in my home. and the luxury (and expensive) one from Sota.

          Oh,and before you ask: I’ve used Colloïdal Silver for almost 15 years,now,and I’m still NOT blue.Maybe I’ll just have to be more patient ;-))

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 20, 2019 at 1:09 pm

          Here is a link to the Sota devices.Those are quite expensive;you can build the Silver Pulser and the Magnetic Pulser yourself;Bob Beck made it easy because he wanted us to cure ourselves without the help from the Farmafia.Those homebuilt ones are quite basis but the effect is the same as you’d have with the Sota devices,The Sota Magnetic Pulser is more powerfull,which is usefull when you’re a “big” person.My advice;because the Magnetic Pulser is so easy to make,and very cheap,built one and give it a try.When fully satisfied,you might want to buy the Sota devices,like I did.A bit more handy,and more durable,but much more expensive!


        • Henk Noordhuizen November 20, 2019 at 1:23 pm

          About the eye massage:just close your eyes and rub them,like you do at wake up,but way more gently;you’re a Floxie,now;better get used to the fact that every part of your body,including your eyes,lis weaker and will get damaged when too much force is used.

          I don’t rub my eyes when they itch from hayfever,,anymore,since I discovered that washing them with Chamomilla tea works great (the rubbing makes the itching worse but it’s a natural reflex to rub). I drink the part of the tea thats left after the washing (which I often do with the used Cam.tea bag) because I like Cammomilla,and it’s one of the few tea’s I can drink after being floxed.Black,green and white tea contain Fluoride,and just one cup is enough to cause a relaps.

        • Bruce November 21, 2019 at 10:04 am

          I will try, thanks Henk!

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 10:17 am

          You’re welcome;I hope it works for you.Success,and let us know!

      • Bruce November 19, 2019 at 8:07 pm Reply

        Thanks, What kind of magnetic pulser do you have?
        So you would just close your eyes and then rubbed them gently?

  9. L November 19, 2019 at 11:12 am Reply

    OH great. This was one of the antibiotics that I thought might be safer to take after being floxed. https://www.naturalhealth365.com/antibiotic-heart-risks-3192.html

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 19, 2019 at 11:39 am Reply

      This does not look like very safe stuff to me:


      In fact,there are no safe AB’s,only dangerous and less dangerous.

      • Krabiwi November 20, 2019 at 12:21 am Reply

        Very interesting is this mice study with Doxycycline. They aged rapidly as mtDNA got depleted (same happens with FCs just in a even stronger extend)

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 20, 2019 at 1:46 pm

          Just,what happened with me,when I got floxed;one day I was like a young Adonis (well,sort of ;-)) and just 4 Cipro pills and 2 month later I looked and felt like an old man.My skin wrinkled all over my body,looking like old parchment,and my condition is minimized.There’s some improvement but when I work in my garden or do some other intensive activities,I’m exhausted in no time!

          I think that the problem with synthetic “medicines” is the fact that the body sees them as serious threats (which they are),and in a reaction,trying to “oxidize” them,produces lots of ROS.When the threat is a bacillus,virus or fungus,most of the time this defence will work,but not so when chemicals are involved;those are,often,resistant to oxization.Now the ROS turns to our own cells and causes lots of damage that adds to the damage,caused by the “medicine”,itself.Double dose of troubles.

          I’ve tried to avoid medicines,all of my life (when possible,I’ve always chosen for natural medicines),and the few times I used the “science based ” medicines,those (almost) always caused more problems than I had before.And,after having read “half the WWW”,I know,why:those substances,given by the doctors,are unnatural and should not be put in human bodies!

        • Krabiwi November 20, 2019 at 5:15 pm

          My skin also aged badly in the first 2 weeks, I got some age spots. Also this went better and my skin has recovered but is still impaired and sensitive.

          “I think that the problem with synthetic “medicines” is the fact that the body sees them as serious threats (which they are),and in a reaction,trying to “oxidize” them,produces lots of ROS.”
          A very good point. Especially when FCs attack DNA topoisomerase, a cell could react with a strong autoimmune response (ROS) and instead of destroying the stable synthetic FC molecular structure it damages its own amino acid structures i.e. enzymes and mtDNA.

          I even don’t take aspirine and paracetamol anymore and I also don’t need it, wasn’t sick since full 12 month now, immune system seems to be stronger than pre flox with all those supplements, low carb diet and intermitting fasting.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 2:05 am

          Krabiwi,have you ever read about that research,done by a team of MD’s and archeologists,published about 10 years ago? They’ve examened thousands of mummies,all over the world,on proofs of cancer and discovered that,untill 150-200 years cancer was extremely rare.Well,chemicals were extremely rare,too,as were synthetic medicines.The rise of the use of chemicals and synthetic medicines parallels the rise of cancer.

          Even harder to swallow;even 50 years ago,cancer in children was extremely rare and cancer was supposed to be an old (wo-)men’s disease.Not so,anymore;there now are special clinics for children with cancer,and add’s on television to collect money for children with cancer.What Bob Beck said:”First create a problem (with poison pills,and chemicals,everywhere),and then offer a “solution”(with even more poison pills).

          Krabiwi,I guess,with FC’s you mean Fluoroquinolones (FQ’s) ?

        • Krabiwi November 22, 2019 at 4:59 pm

          FC=FQ. Have heard of that, but never read the study, I will google for it.

          But makes sense, as cancer is a result of mutated DNA and DNA mutates because of free radicals and lack of antioxidants.

          While meds, pollutions, toxines, sugars, processed food with many additives and rays increase free radicals in cells. Empty food cause a lack of antioxidants to battle those free radicals.

          In sum this increases DNA mutation and cancer risk.

          Moreover most people don’t experience ketosis anymore due to lack of fasting and exercise. They found out that ketosis activates protein p53 what is a cancer supressor and can send cancer cells into apoptosis.

          So in days were people had only 1-2 meals per day and had to fast over 14-18 hrs daily p53 was active.

          There is lots of research going on at the moment about this topic. Anyway, pharma etc won’t be happy as with fasting there is nothing to earn. So we will never see a huge advertising campaign, luckily today we can do our own research and look into primary papers.

          Keywords: p53 + fasting, cancer + fasting, p53 + ketosis, cancer ketosis

  10. Don M November 20, 2019 at 9:21 am Reply

    Got a question……….. Anyone had any experience with Hypericum for nerve pain? All information is that it is good as a Homeopathic pain reliever with no side effects. https://www.homeopathicremediesblog.com/remedies/hypericum/
    I attempt to not use a “pain killer drugs”.
    I currently take Curcumin, Boswellia and Ginger to try to eliminate inflammation. They are each said to have pain relieving qualities of there own. But it is not enough!

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 3:23 am Reply

      Don,with “Hypericum” you mean the Hypericum Perforatum? Hypericum is a big family,but the Perfolatum is welknown for being a helpfull natural anti-depressivant.That is,in fact,the only indication where Hyp.Perf. is proven to work (only for mild depressions).

      I’m not enthousiastic about homeopathy,and when I did try it,in the past,on several occasions,different problems,it never worked for me.But when using a homeopathic Hyp. solution could help you,that should be great! I think it’s very safe to give it a try,and it won’t cost you your last penny ;-)) Please,let us know the results,positive and/or negative;others might be interested. Success!

  11. Ag November 20, 2019 at 1:21 pm Reply

    L, could you tell me where you go to file against the doctor if you are doing it yourself due to statute constraints? I was told itd be good to file on my own for now but I have no idea where to do it as they couldnt advise me. Did you file in a civil court? Supreme court? Im in NYC. Thank you.

    • L November 20, 2019 at 1:40 pm Reply

      Civil. You should go to your local court house. It needs to be filed where the incident took place, or where you and the doctor reside. The county court house. They hopefully have a center where they can direct you to the forms you need. The initial form you file is called the “complaint.” And it is a good idea. It serves as a kind of “place holder” while you continue to seek out an attorney. Then he/she can amend the complaint if need be. See if you can find a paralegal to help you with it.

      • L November 20, 2019 at 1:43 pm Reply

        There are other forms that will need to be filed with the complaint, like the summons which notifies the defendant that he/she has been sued, and there are certain ways in which these papers must be served. You want to follow the rules very carefully. You can even find some online information on this.

        • Ag November 20, 2019 at 2:00 pm

          Is US District Court of Eastern NY a civil court? I live in a different county than the doctors office so I think I can file in the county I live in since both are in NYC. I dont know if I’ll have enough time to figure this out because statute from when I was prescribed is up tomorrow. :/ Although thats not when I had symptoms so I may have a little more time but Im not sure. Yeah they told me its good to get it filed to extend the statute and not to say anything specific that could be used against my case if proven untrue. Supposedly once its filed, you can take up to 3 months before you have to serve it.

        • L November 20, 2019 at 2:54 pm

          That’s federal. What county do you live in?

        • Ag November 20, 2019 at 3:58 pm

          kings county, I found it now, do you think if I fill out this form thats enough to file?


        • L November 20, 2019 at 4:29 pm

          No. You need to file a complaint. I notice on this form, it says it is limited to $25,000. I am guessing this is perhaps only used in small claims court. These cases are very complicated. They will not have simple forms like this. Here is an example from another state below. Also, New York may be one of the states that requires you to give notice to the defendant that you WILL be filing a suit. I don’t know. You really need to contact someone at the courts. I would recommend going in person. This is very complicated. Even if you had the basic template, there are so many legal requirements to filling it out… https://www.uslegalforms.com/us/US-CMP-10041.htm

  12. Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 3:45 am Reply

    Has anybody tried Pau D”Arco? Seems to be very interesting for Floxies because:

    “one of the ingredients in this tree bark is beta-lapachone, which is a potent catalyst for a molecule called nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+). NAD+, found in every cell in your body, is a receptor for electrons in the electron transport chain in your mitochondria. By increasing NAD+ intercellularly, Pau d’Arco helps improve mitochondrial ATP production. This is beneficial for health in general, but it’s particularly important if you’re fighting disease.”Source:


    I bought a pack of Pau D”Arco tea,and intend to give it a try.I’ll keep you informed on results.

    • Andrea November 21, 2019 at 5:27 am Reply

      I’ve taken NAD+ supplement in the past. Only used it for a couple of days, because I’ve noticed it was giving me weird headaches. I’ve read that some people experience that too.
      It was fom Life Extencion

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 8:13 am Reply

        Not the NAD+,but a lack of water may have caused the headaches;some substances cause a higher need of water.

  13. Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 3:54 am Reply


    Interesting: there seems a lot to do about Pau D’Arco (also called Lapacho) as an anti cancer remedy. On Wiki:

    “Lapacho is promoted as a treatment for a number of human ailments, including cancer. According to the American Cancer Society, “available evidence from well-designed, controlled studies does not support this substance as an effective treatment for cancer in humans”, and using it risks harmful side-effects”

    Well,read this:


    Who is Wiki,and the American Cancer Society serving here,with their false information?

    • L November 21, 2019 at 10:44 am Reply

      I can’t recall what the exact entry was on Wikipedia that I had read, but it was something to do with a natural treatment that I knew to be beneficial and Wikipedia just eviscerated it, calling it quackery, and so on. I was furious and wrote to the Wikipedia people and told them how wrong the information was, and their response was that I could go ahead and change it (or add to it) and this is the problem with Wikipedia. It is very unreliable and biased by who authors the entry. I suspect MOST of their medical -related ones are written by AMA/Big Pharma people. If you just want a definition it’s fine, but for anything substantive, it’s garbage. (We were not allowed to use it as a source for our thesis in my masters program.)

  14. Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 4:14 am Reply

    Another interesting Mercola article about mitochondrial health,I just found:


  15. Andrea November 21, 2019 at 5:29 am Reply

    Whta do you guys think about this : https://theoriginalhomozon.com/
    I’m intersted in trying it for my gut health. Do you think it can be useful ? or it’s just an overpriced form of magnesium (wich of course, in big doses can be used as a laxative)

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 8:03 am Reply

      “In 1929, while looking for a cure for cancer, and according to some sources working with the great inventor Nikola Tesla in a Paris hotel, Dr. Blass developed….”.

      “Homozon was probably created through collaboration of Nikola Tesla and Dr. Blass back in the 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s. Incidentally, at one time they both lived in the same NYC hotel, so they no doubt would have spent many hours of conversation discussing their pursuits and experiments. Tesla was a genius and more than likely was the one who helped Blass optimize this wonderful preparation.”

      Paris? New York?

      “Homozon is based on a powdered form of pharmaceutical magnesium (not industrial or commercial grade), mined from a specific site”

      Which site?? Why,the site is not named?

      “The Original Oxygen-Therapy Blass Homozon. Developed by Dr. Eugene Blass in colabortion with Nikola Tesla.” Well,the only “proof” of this collaboration,I can find,is on websites,related to Ozone therapee and this product.

      Tesla invented the first ozone generater and got a patent in `1896.

      “In 1896, Tesla was issued a patent for a corona discharge ozone generator using charged metal plates to act on ambient air. He formedness the Tesla Ozone Company and went into production subsectors of units. His Customers were naturopaths and allopaths who welcomed this powerful therapy into their practices. Breathing of ozone bubbled through olive oil and other oils was widely practiced at this time, and the Sears catalog of 1904 Offered a unit for this purpose using eucalyptus, pine and spearmint oils. Tesla produced a gel made by bubbling ozone through olive oil until it solidified, and sold it to doctors.”

      So,Tesla was the original inventor of the ozone generator,and ozone therapee.

      “Dr. Blass developed a powdered form of stabilized oxygen which was bound to pharmaceutical quality magnesium; this was an improvement on the earlier product Haemozon which was developed in 1898 by two German Doctors, Thauerkauf and Luth. The product, the forerunner of the modern Homozon™, was designed to be a strong source of both magnesium and oxygen which would effectively promote intestinal cleansing to eliminate accumulated hardened mucus waste.”

      I can’t find any info on Haemozon,and no proof of Dr.Bass,”inventing” an improvement on this product.

      Most of the info I found on Homozon leads back to the main distributor,Donna Crow (the one,who presented the Blass/Tesla connection as a fact.As usual:take one,or two wellknown names (e.g.Tesla and Blass,who founded in 1913 the first German association of ozone therapy,13 years after the original work of Tesla),and connect this to your product.Not the slightest bit of science on this product can be found,but,hey;Tesla,Blass;this must be good stuff!Who needs proof?

      • jo November 21, 2019 at 8:35 am Reply

        Henk, did the Tamarind help you?
        You mentioned taking it a while ago?

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 8:57 am

          Jo,I did answer that/your question,a few weeks ago;you must have missed my answer.

          I don’t know if it worked;I don’t have the equipment to messure Fluoride in my urine/stools,and that is the only objective way to prove it’s working in removing Fluorid from your body.Tamarind was not the only supp I used,back then.Combine this with the unpredictable character of FQ poisoning and it is clear that I can not,in any way,give you an objective answer to your question.

          But I DO love the taste of the Tamarind candies,since long before I got floxed :-))

  16. Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 10:08 am Reply

    Hmmm,both the bobeck,com and the sharinghealth.com website vanished.Has the hunt after electromedicine begun? There’s a website bobbeck,info but it seems to be in Finland and it’s an empty website;only a form for contacting them,and you hand over your name and email adress to unknown strangers.No connection,here,to the original websites.

    Looks like they’re gonna try to erase the name Bob Beck (Protocol) from the web :-((

  17. Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 10:10 am Reply

    Sorry;must be bobbeck.com (that’s the real one with lotts of information on the man,much of it taken from his personal documents,and at the moment not reachable for us,to read.

  18. Isabel November 21, 2019 at 10:52 am Reply


    On 2011 I took cipro.

    After many years I still feel unsteadiness & dizziness on walking, as if I walk into shifting sands.

    Is there any body on this forum whom, after many years is experiencing same symptoms as me?

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 12:23 pm Reply

      Hi Isabel,my muscle control and balance are,like yours,still not what it should be.My reading capability is damaged as well.After years of reading one developes a different way of reading;not recognizing characters but whole words.Well,here’s something wrong;I often recognise a totally diferent word,not even related to the rest of the text,as if my internal dictionary is totaly mixed up.Sometimes I have to read the same sentence twice,or even three times.

      For the balance and the muscle control I hope some of the supps I take will,in the end,help,and I hope that,the more I read,the more my abillity improves.I was floxed in sept. 2016,with Cipro.You’re floxed 5 years earlier;what did you do meanwhile,to improve your health?Please,tell something about your initial problems,and what you did to fight the adverse reactions.

  19. Dee November 21, 2019 at 1:45 pm Reply

    Fellow floxies, Three weeks ago I had Lidocaine shots in 2 different spots on skin to remove small skin growths. I was scared about having the shots but did what I had to do. My peripheral neuropathy ramped up for several days but had gotten a little better. Now I have been dealing with this itchy small little red bumps that come out in random spots but mostly around the area where the lidocaine shots were given. I looked up reactions to lidocaine and actually itching and small red bumps are a common reaction. What I am concerned about is this has been going on for 3 weeks!? Do you think my reaction will just take a lot longer to fade because of being floxed?? I even had red irritated skin where I put bandaids over the healing sore which of course is taking forever to heal! I used bandaids after being floxed with no problem so I definitely think the lidocaine did a number on my skin!!?? I’m just hoping this is a flare from the lidocaine and that it will eventually disappear?? I can’t imagine this reaction being permanent but it does scare me a little that it is taking so long for these red itchy bumps to go away!!?? Any thoughts about this reaction?? I pray this is temporary! I am 2.5 years out and probably 80/85% recovered?? Have any of you experienced a reaction to a numbing med???

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 2:04 pm Reply

      Dee,every little skin damage takes ages to heal,after I was floxed.Before getting floxed people were often suprised how fast my wounds healed,and the small amount of scar it gave.Cipro changed all of that!So,don’t worry;it just takes (a lot) longer than you’re used to.When I asked,here,others,as well,had noticed this change.

    • Andrea November 21, 2019 at 3:57 pm Reply

      Hi Dee, thanks for sharing your, sadly, bad experience. I’m sorry, but I can’t help you, I don’t have, luckily, any experience with any anestetich. But I do agree with Henk, one thing FQ changed for sure, it’s my skin. Not only, it appears way more wrinkly and old now, but also my skin take way more time to heal from wounds and usually they leave a mark. I’ll give you an example : one day a cat scratched my hand, just a small scratch with a little blood. Anyway the mark it’s still there, months after the scratch. Another time, I scratched my arm, walking through a bush full of thornes. Nothing serious, but the scar it left would make you think it was way deeper than it really was

  20. Dee November 21, 2019 at 2:09 pm Reply

    Henk. I know and expect my wound to heal slowly after floxing. I can accept that even though I don’t like it. What do you think about the itching red bumps from the lidocaine? Do you think that will pass in time??? I hope with time too that wounds will heal faster too! Has that gotten any better over time??

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 21, 2019 at 2:33 pm Reply

      Dee,this year even my musquito bites took ages to fully disappear,so,I guess,those red bumps will disappear as well;it will just take time.Maybe a bit of Tea Tree oil will take away the itching,or,even better,try some Plantago juice;it grows almost everywhere.Best searching place:look at places where nettles grow.

      In my country,at this moment,it’s a good time to collect Plantago seeds;thats how the narrow leaf Plantago found his place in my garden.I also have the one with the big round leaves;it came here all by itself.I showed them to my Polish neighbour girls and they now use it for their mosquito bites,as well.The oldest girl even takes leaves inside and puts them in a bit of water.Good idea;now I do this as well;no need to go outside after dark to search fresh leaves.

      You can also dry the leaves for a tea that works miracles when you have a nasty cough,caused by sticky mucus. Your doc has nothing that comes near to what Plantago can do for you,on both the bites (and nettle burns),and the sticky mucus;óne plant that,untill now,kept it’s secrets for the Farmafia ;-)) Give Plantago a try,and a good place in your garden,if you have one!

      • Andrea November 21, 2019 at 4:03 pm Reply

        Henk, I’m answering you here for the previous post. I was too skeptical about that homozon supplement. Anyway, what do you think about the magnesium ,bounded?, to oxygen. I’ve heard many times that magnesium especially mag. Citrate and mag. Oxide can be used as laxatives, so maybe this particular combination could be helpful? Let me know what you think. Thank you.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 22, 2019 at 2:46 am

          Andrea,like you must have understood,by my respons on your question,yesterday,my opinion is,that it’s the most expensive laxative you can find.No science(how much of the magnesium is absorbed,how much does it raise your oxigen level).Add al the fake info,and the few links leading to just one person “Madame” Crow,and the only reasonable conclusion is,that Homozon is a hoax.

  21. Dee November 21, 2019 at 4:14 pm Reply

    Andreas Thanks for your info. Unfortunately I know wounds take longer to heal. But my concern is will I stop reacting to the lidocaine with the itchy red bumps. After 3 weeks I’m still reacting!?? I hope that ceases soon! The only other person on this site that got back to me that had reacted to lidocaine was Saff and he said it took him 3 months for his flareup to calm down. Soooo that does give me some hope. I just want this reaction to stop

    • Andrea November 21, 2019 at 5:47 pm Reply

      I don’t really know Dee…sorry. I just hope that you’ll get better soon. But one thing I noticed, on myslef of course, is that my body can’t heal itself properly. I’ll give you another example: Since being floxed, I never had any GI issues. Even in the worst period, when I was completely messed up, and I was laying or sitting most of the times, with a constant feeling of brain fog, confusion and dizziness, in agony with multiples, terrible pain all over my body, my stomach was still functioning good. And my diet wasn’t that good anyway. Then, around my second “anniversary”, I made the stupid choice to take the wrong probiotic, which contains Saccaromyces boulardii. It completely messed up my gut flora, and since then, it’s almost been a year now, I’m experiencing bloating and constipation on a regular basis. The more healthy I eat, the worse I feel. So, I don’t want to discourage you, but, like I said, it’s almost like my body memorize all the bad things happening to him, and can’t find a way to heal itself. I will never forgive myself for doing something that stupid…Anyway, in my defence, I can only say that, I was really pushed to try this particular probiotic by the lady who runs this health food store in my town. I told her how serious my situation is, and she just kept telling me, how this product would be so good for me, only to change his attitude, when I told her I was feeling so bad afterwards. She told me that this product can be harsh on your GI, but only for a few days, and she never heard a complain like mine. She kept repeating “I’m a naturopath, I know what I’m talking about, you need to calm down, you’ll be fine, trust me” just like those nasty doctors we all have dealt with. I was furious, but at the end, I know she’s just a scumbag, and I was stupid to trust her. She’s one of those pathetic hippish clown, without any real knowledge, who’d sell the latest miraculous cure/supplement/crap to anyone, even the sick ones, like me. For 20 euros, she convinced me to try this particular thing, that wasn’t absolutely right for my situation. Sorry for the outburst, but I did it just to remind everyone that doctors aren’t the only one who would hurt you, so be careful even with “natural approaches”.

  22. Nicole November 21, 2019 at 5:55 pm Reply

    Please help. I cannot find the list of safe antibiotics and Amoxicillin is not working anymore.
    My symptoms have gotten so bad over the last 6 months that I have become very suicidal.
    Sorry to put this on a site for hope but some of you will remember me as I will be floxed 4 years in February. Severe symptoms. Even though there have been better times I am just at my end as constant infections and pain for months. I have well spent over 40 thousand dollars on naturopaths, therapy, both mental and physical and just can’t hang on anymore. I have stayed off the forums because of emotional reasons but need help desperately.
    I can not take sulfer drugs so antibiotics with sulfer I cannot take. The antibiotic safe list that used to be on here I cannot find. PLEASE HELP! I have lost everything and I am 69 with nothing to go on for. Doctors do not understand when you tell them you can’t take things after being floxed.

      • Nicole November 22, 2019 at 6:54 am Reply

        Thank you Erin so much. This is for my fourth UTI in 6 months. I have been have a bad IC flare with terrible nerve burning. So I may have let this one go too long just thinking it was the pain I have been enduring all along. Even though I have burning neuropathy the bad vaginal burning started with the first UTI 6 months ago. I always knew I had IC but may have something called vulvodynia now also. Nothing helps it and worst pain ever. I cannot use lidocaine as I had a 6 month relapse from Caine eye drops some years ago. The urologist is going to take a look into my badder in the hospital in about 10 days as I have blood in all urine samples even when I don’t have a UTI. This has just worn me out on top of all my other FQ problems and pain. It’s terrible to live with pain and no be able to do anything for it. I have certainly tapped out all our savings trying. It gets so depressing and I feel my husband would be able to go on with life without me around. I am no good to anyone anymore. FQ’s unfortunately stole my life for good I am afraid.
        Anyway thank you as the antibiotics for this strain of bacteria should come up today. 💞

        • Don M November 22, 2019 at 8:20 am

          Nicole………… Have you ever heard of D-Mannose? I won’t go into a long dissertation about D-Mannose. Google for D-Mannose and you will get loads of information.

          Also you may want to consult Dr. Google about Interstitial cystitis.
          Interstitial cystitis also known as bladder pain syndrome, is a type of chronic pain that affects the bladder. Symptoms include feeling the need to urinate right away, needing to urinate often, and pain with sex. IC/BPS is associated with depression and lower quality of life. Many of those affected also have irritable bowel syndrome and fibromyalgia. Wikipedia
          It is being said that freeze dried Aloe Vera will help the pain acquired from this malady.
          Just a note………. With freeze dried Aloe just a couple of pills a day won’t do it. You must take several pills. Follow the directions and many people report good results. Desert-Harvest-Super-Strength-Ingredients- Can be viewed on Amazon.com. Go to their web site and read the testimonials.

          Just a bit of my history. I am 85 and have had UTI problems for 60 years. In that time I have been through 7 Urlogists, 3 Infectious Disease Doctors, couple Gasteroenterologists and a few other assorted doctors. Urologist number 1 was the cause of it all. I was given so many different antibiotics (by these doctors) that I could not make a list. I was floxed by the Urologists.
          I (on my own) found D-Mannose which I use regularly (weekly) as a deterrent. It works!!!!
          Investigate D-Mannose and Freeze Dried Aloe Vera. You might find them to be a big help for you.

        • Nicole November 22, 2019 at 9:48 am

          Thank you so much Dee for your kind words as they have picked me up. It has been a hard year all around as I lost a beloved dog and my grandchildren who I kept going for, have moved away. My son doesn’t understand why I can’t just hop a plane and see them anytime I want to as like everyone that isn’t one of us, they don’t understand what we live with. Even though he knows I had to ride in a wheelchair at first from this when going any distance at all. I have faked it to make with with getting to see the little ones while they lived close but they are a 6 month old baby, 4 and 6. They will just go on and forget their old grandma. The oldest remembers me before I was floxed as we went to the park and danced and had so much fun together. Afterwards all they have known is a grandma that just watch’s them play and reads to them and makes fun lunches.
          I just lost who I was in every way. I can see the changes in me like the wrinkled skin and so forth but most of all I see it in my eyes. They are just dead and I see so much life in them before FQ’s.
          Like some of you have said no one looks at us and see’s anything wrong. I still put on my makeup and look pretty good for a 69 year old. It’s no wonder doctors don’t believe us as you can’t see it and most tests they run turn up negative.
          My cardiologist did understand as she said she would never give anyone a FQ under any circumstances. She has told me tests to avoid as they won’t show anything anyway. I only see her once a year and she is the only doctor or pharmacist I have talked to that fully understands. We all get that, but it’s so rare. My GP does understand but not the real depth of it, but he works with me.
          Now concerning the D-Mannose that you and Dan have been so kind to bring up, I have used it for years but it only works for E. coli. So the strains I keep getting are Proteus Mirabilis and Enterococcus Faecalis. Last UTI I had both. My hormone cream kept them at bay for a while but now with the vulvodynia and IC pain the cream kills me. My intestines being so bad probably makes it easier to get these UTI’s but I shower and clean myself to death. Do not use and soaps that have anything in them to shower and shampoo over a sink. I am so careful.
          Anyway thank you so much for reaching out as I have become so lonely. Don’t see friends or go out anymore. My husband understands it all and feels so guilty he can’t go back and change it. He was in the ER with me, it was for a diverticulitis attack, but also had no understanding of what was being done to me. We are in Vancouver, Canada and at that time there were no warnings on FQ’s here. They still don’t pay much attention to them even now.
          Big hug back.💞

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 22, 2019 at 10:47 am

          Nicole,both Proteus Mirabilis and Enterococcus Faecalis are common in human feces,and the main cause of a ITI with these bacteria is cleaning the wrong way,after visiting the toilet.You have to AWAYS rub the toilet paper from front to back,NEVER from back to front,or you’ll risk bringing those nasty bacteria from,sorry for the words,the anus to the vagina,causing a UTI.Of course,when washing yourself,you have to follow this rule as well.

        • Larry December 13, 2019 at 11:02 pm

          Have you taken an advanced urine test? Look into Microgendx and Aperiomics.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 22, 2019 at 1:28 am Reply

      Hi Nicole,I looked for that list as well but couldn’t find it.Just did a search with Ecosia, on “safe antibiotics for floxies” and got two pages;one,with my question,and one,YES,with the list on FloxieHope:


      You can try some of the natural antibiotics,as well.Another great advice on the safe antibiotics page is:get your infection cultured.When the doc knows what bacterium causes your infection,he/she can give you an antibiotic that’s working on a small group of bacteria,including the one from your infection.Those antibiotica cause way less troubles than than broad spectrum ones.

      • Nicole November 22, 2019 at 7:00 am Reply

        Thanks Henk. I am having a culture which should be back today. It is just so many antibiotics we can’t take. I do use natural antibiotics a lot via my NP but I just seem to keep falling through the cracks. I know stress is playing a big part in it. Life has just become too much and I am a major fighter. So giving up is my last straw.

        • L November 22, 2019 at 10:40 am

          find yourself a good female ND. There is a formula for treating UTIs that involves no antibiotics. It worked for me a couple years ago. You need to get the exact formula because it changes in amounts each day. Supposed to work in two weeks—took me a month and I went through a LOT of bottles of stuff, (one of the ingredients I recall taking every four waking hours) but it did work. I recall in involved high doses of vitamin A, something called urinary system support by herbpharm, vitamin C and d-mannose. Also, f you tend to get them frequently, once you cure this one, you might want to stay on the d-mannose for a time. It prevents the little buggers from sticking so they are flushed out more readily.

      • Nicole November 22, 2019 at 11:01 am Reply

        Henk believe me I am so careful with cleaning. Use wipes until nothing can be seen and if my bowels are very loose I shower after going. I have IBS & hemerroids also so my intestines are a mess but I am VERY careful about staying clean but those little bacteria’s are still getting there. Thank you for the thoughts but the only thing I can think of is maybe a slashing from the water that hits up there that is not seen. I try to shower always afterwards when home but you can’t do that when out. I carry wipes with no scents or chemicals with me at all times and a little bottle of water to pour over my front area when urinating. Boy this is fun talk with you guys but at my age who cares. 😂

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 22, 2019 at 11:24 am

          Nicole,thanks for the humor ;-)) Well, the only other way of infection I can think of is your underware,but you will probably have addressed that,as well.Other things that might help:drink a lot (flushing your bladder),take as much vit. C,every day,as you can,up to the point were it is starting to work in a laxating way,and use D-Manose,daily (keeps bacteria from sticking to the bladder wall,thereby preventing an infection.Eating granberries,the source of D-Manose,might help as well.

  23. Ronna November 21, 2019 at 6:19 pm Reply

    It’s been a while since I’ve been on this site and probably no one remembers me. My name is Ronna, and I can’t believe I’m still alive. I’ve had some really rough times, but slowly seeing some recovery. The unbelievable anxiety has really decreased. My gut problems are still an on going problem, but there has been improvement and the diarrhea has stopped. I am now able to maintain my weight and do things with other people without crying constantly. It has been almost 3 years for me, and I am always ready to die. It’s amazing to me how strong the human body is, I am a registered nurse, 67 years old. To look at me you would n very know I was sick. My husband has tired of my problems which makes life hell, but I survive. Not sure why, only God knows. Does anyone remember me?

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 22, 2019 at 2:29 am Reply

      Hi Ronna,I probably came on FloxieHope after your last post.I was floxed in sept.2016 but it took quite a while before I found out what happened to me,and before I found Floxiehope.

      You’re so right:for other people we look “healthy”,and they can’t imagine the pain,misery and the overwelming feeling of being extremely tired,24 hours a day.When even the one,closest to you,doesn’t believe you’re suffering,this must be terrible,indeed.

      That’s why,in my view,groups like the one on Floxiehope are so important,and I am very gratefull that Lisa Bloomquist offers us the opportunity to meet each other online,help each other with helpfull information and advice,and to just be there for each other!

    • A.Coleman November 26, 2019 at 10:14 am Reply


      I do remember your posts – I am a four year floxie and have been on Floxie Hope since near the beginning. Glad to hear you are now having some healing. I know it can take a very long time. At my four year floxiversary I posted an update – I am about 85% well now and even have days – sometimes more than one in a row where I feel pretty much like my old self.

      I know what you mean about people not realizing you have massive internal problems going on and thinking you are “normal”. And I too understand how it is to have those who should be your biggest supporters no longer fulfilling that role. My mother is aging – turns 80 in a month; and she no longer listens at all when I try to talk about my problems. My wife is, in some ways, worse. She sympathizes and sees how differently I act now than I did before floxing; but she has instituted a rule that I can only talk about my issues 3 times a week.

      I get where she is coming from – trying to help me not focus on my problems; and believing at least a little that part of my problems are psychosomatic (without saying so); but talking it out is also how I cope. I do think her approach has helped some and I am trying to just plow forward and do when at all possible even if I would prefer to be cocooned at home.

      I just started a relapse after 5 days of being mostly normal (95%) – the longest since I was floxed. Hopefully before too long that 5 days will be 10 and then 30 and then permanent. I do not intend to write a recovery story until I have been 95% or more normal on every day for six months; but I am here to give you hope. It is slow; takes lots of time and the older you are when floxed the slower the healing IMO. Unfortunately I also note that as I get closer to “normal” the pace of healing seems to slow; but I am still healing.

      Hang in there and remember to use FloxieHope when you can’t get understanding from your family and friends. I am not a real frequent poster but Henk, L. and some of the others are here more often.

  24. Dee November 21, 2019 at 6:35 pm Reply

    Andrea. So sorry to hear about your probiotic mishap. I totally understand your anger and frustration. None of us know how we will react to anything so we have to step out and take a chance on some things hoping it will help us heal! Who would ever think any probiotic would harm us for a long term? Don’t be angry with yourself….you were just trying to find something to help you heal! I had severe insomnia for months and 3 months into floxing I took only half a mg of melatonin to help me sleep and had a opposing reaction! Up all night with heart racing and anxiety through the roof. After not sleeping all night the next day I had SEVERE tinnitus throbbing in my head. It was like living with a jet engine roaring in my head!! For most floxies melatonin helps them sleep!! For me it turned me upside down with 24:7 horrible tinnitus that I didn’t have before the melatonin! 2.5 years later I still have the tinnitus but it has quieted down significantly but still wakes me up every morning! Oh if I only knew!! Just like your probiotics!! We can’t know so why beat ourselves up!? I have GI issues too but opposite of you. Every morning I have to keep running to the bathroom with loose and pretty urgent stools. Not fun!! Have tried everything!! Nothing has really helped. It is just hard to know how to make our way through this maze of healing! Like you said we just have to try and stay positive!!!! How long have you been floxed??

    • Andrea November 22, 2019 at 3:08 am Reply

      Ho Dee. In December, it’s going to be my 3rd “anniversary”. I too deal with poor sleep/insomnia. But for a different reason. My bladder just keeps me up all night. I have a constant pressure feeling on my pelvic area and I go to pee multiple times during the night and day. I’ve done many tests, but no doctor would understand the real root of my problems, surprise surprise… So nobody would tell me what treatment would be better for me. I’ve tried so many supplement and a couple of medicines for my issue, but they never worked.

  25. Don M November 21, 2019 at 8:08 pm Reply

    Light therapy. How it works and why it works. https://www.facebook.com/CareLightTeam/videos/395376841392046/
    I know that by now many floxies on this web site are tired of reading about light therapy.
    But it works. It will mitigate pain and help to heal the body. It is no instant miracle cure because light therapy is “coaching” the body to do the things that heal. Light therapy has been around for many years in many different parts of the world. Try it. You may be amazed at what light therapy can do for you.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 22, 2019 at 2:35 am Reply

      Hi Don,

      I don’t do Facebook,Twitter,or any of the other “social” networks,except for Skype,which I only run when needed,being seldom,But I do want to confirm that lighttherapee is there for a long time.Not just many years,like you wrote,but for millions of years.We just weren’t aware of it :-)) Otherwise we probably wouldn’t have invented clothing,or,just only for the cold seasons ;-))

    • Andrea November 22, 2019 at 3:24 am Reply

      Ho Don. More or less a year and half ago, I’ve bought an infrared light. But I probably never really understood how it works and if it works (anyways I think it did nothing to me). I’ve used it for my bladder (and now stomach) issues. I followed the instruction. I kept pointed it on my pelvic are 20 minutes or so, but, as I expected, it never did anything. I did it for like a week straight. Once a day. Oh and I’ve used it on my hands also, to find out if it would repair my skin, but as I wrote earlier, never did a thing to me.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 22, 2019 at 5:35 am Reply

        Andrea,which infrared device did you use? Please,give us a link to the seller website.

        As far as I understood,those devices should be used for weeks,to experience any effect.So,you might consider to ive it another try.And remember;(near)infrared light is hyped,at te moment,which brings many producers to put inferiour devices on the market,and/or overpriced products.

        • Don M November 22, 2019 at 7:33 am

          Henk…..Andrea ….. Correct Henk…….. There is a glut of junk light therapy gadgets on the market. Get the wrong thing and use it the wrong way and it is pretty obvious that the results will be disappointing. Expecting quick results is also the wrong thing to be doing. Infrared light therapy in most cases does work pretty quick for helping to mitigate pain, but that relief is short lived and must be repeated reasonably often. I’ll repeat what I have said before. “Light therapy is not in itself a medicine”. “Light therapy is coaxing your body to heal itself”. Light therapy excites the things in your body to be more active and speed up healing. Go back and look at this video about how light therapy works. https://www.facebook.com/CareLightTeam/videos/395376841392046/
          If you don’t at first have sound click on the picture.
          Bottom line……….. Light therapy works if you do it right and have the right light tools. (not cheap junk)

          Just a note. Some of the stuff on the market sold as Cold Laser is of such low power it is worthless. Bulbs and panels outside the proper light spectrum also will not do much for one. Get the right tools and use them properly and be patient because light therapy is not a quick fix. Bulbs and panels of nominal power (15 to 50 Watts) require 30 minutes or more several times a day over an extended period of time (sometimes months) to get effect from them. Phillips type bulbs (which are not LED) use 100 to 250 watts of power.

        • Andrea November 22, 2019 at 3:07 pm

          Henk, this site doesn’t allow me to share the link, so just google http://www.redlightman.com. I bought the 830 mini, if I remember correctly

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 3:37 am

          Hi Andrea,

          here some interesting info about “your” frequenty:


          The guy where you bought your lamp also has one with 50% 780 nm and 50% 830 nm,and one with 620 ◦ 670 ◦ 760 ◦ 830 nm,25% each.What amazes me is that all 6 lamps,with different (combinations of) frequenties have the same power consumption,rating and have the same price tack;leds of different frequenties differ greatly in all of these factors.

          Well,the frequenty of your lamps is well researched and it speeds up healing of small wounds,and will take away some of your wrickles :-)) But for the deeper effects you’ll have to use it,preferably several times a day,for at least 1/2-1 hour,for several weeks (ask Don M.

  26. Dee November 21, 2019 at 8:41 pm Reply

    Ronna! Yes I remember you!! I actually wrote you a post seeing how you were awhile back but never heard from you? Glad you are slowly getting a little better even though it is slow!! Just keep hanging in there! You will get there!! I remember you too because you had similar symptoms as me as far as waking up early with lots of morning bathroom visits! That has been one of my problems too that is still ongoing but maybe “a little” better? I’m 63 and 2.5 years out. Still trying to get completely healed too! I think the older we are it can take us longer unfortunately. If your GI is better what did you do to fix it?? How is your sleep?? I am glad to hear you are moving forward in your healing. Keep the faith!!

    • Nicole November 22, 2019 at 7:17 am Reply

      Hi Ronna & Dee.
      Just posted on here after a long time as well. I am 69 and have the bathroom issues but many more painful symptoms to live with than that one from this horrible drug. I have worked so hard and spent so much money and just feel at our age group maybe we are just done.
      Wish you both the best from a so tired and feed up floxie. Floxed Feb.6 2016. Given double dose of cipro then Avelox in ER. Had Acute hepatitis from 1 dose and left on the avelox for ten days before they caught it. Thought that was my only problem but just a start that continues. Torn tendons, neuropathy and so on and so on. 😢

  27. Dee November 22, 2019 at 8:21 am Reply

    Nicole, I am so so sorry you are suffering so much. I understand your frustration and wanting to give up but I hope you can keep digging down deeper and continue the fight. I think time will eventually improve you more and more if you can hang in there. I think if you can get off the antibiotics for your on going UTId it will help you a lot! Have you tried taking D Mannose “everyday” to prevent UTIs?? I have a paralyzed friend that was constantly getting uti from his catherder (sp?) he started taking D Mannose 2 times a day and the Uti stopped. I have this recipe you can use if you are combating a UTI. It takes longer then antibiotics of course but you could “try” it. I can’t guarantee it will work but once you heal from your current UTI try using the D Mannose twice a day for prevention ( I use NOW powder) mix 1 TBL in small amount of water. If you get a UTI then try this recipe

    1 tsp in glass of water
    Repeat every 2-3 hours for 2-3 days or until symptoms are gone.
    I don’t know if it will work for you but you might give it a try!! One day at a time Nicole is all we can do. Try not to let the FQ beat you down. We are bigger then it is! We have our soul and even small joys to live for! We can do this but it is the fight of our life. Let’s not give up. Let’s keep having hope and faith in our bodies and our spirit to keep healing. Hugs

    • Nicole November 22, 2019 at 9:52 am Reply

      Left you a comment that is under Dan’s above as was thanking you both. Sorry I didn’t put it in the right field. I am so out of it this morning.

      • Don M November 22, 2019 at 3:28 pm Reply

        Nicole……. I think you meant Don and not Dan. No big issue. Don M. An Arizona guy.

    • Don M November 22, 2019 at 3:25 pm Reply

      Nicole…… I second what Dee has just posted. Get with the D-Mannose. It works best against EColi but since it coats the urinary tract and makes it slick it is bound to help with any bacteria in the urinary tract. D-Mannose will not hurt you. I avoid using the term but D-Mannose is actually a type of sugar. Not at all like ordinary sugar and does not raise your blood sugar level. D-Mannose has nothing to do with killing the bacteria but it’s purpose is to not allow it to stick to the walls of the urinary tract. Someone in a previous post mentioned cranberry. Cranberry does contain D-Mannose. Best to get cranberry capsules because any cranberry juice that it palatable is too sour to drink comfortably and you DO NOT want added sugar in your urinary tract.

      The Fluoriquinolone antibiotics we were given has upset the homeostasis in our bodies. We need to do our best to avoid prescription medicines and try our best to reestablish homeostasis in our bodies.

      Hang in there and to hell with those who don’t understand what being floxed is like.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 3:55 am Reply

        You might mix the juice with water,Don.And some people like the sour taste.I prefer the dried berries.Dried,Bio unsweetened cranberries are easy to find here in NL.They can even be found here,growing wild in some places,like Terschelling (an Island in the Northt).And,like always,I prefer them,the way they grow;D-Mannose in a natural package :-))

  28. Kyle November 22, 2019 at 11:29 am Reply

    Hi All it’s been awhile since I’m posted anything. 19 months out now, and I’ve seen some improvements over this time, the worst isn’t as bad as it used to be. I’m maintaining a normal life with discomfort, lack of energy, headaches brain-fog, head pressure etc. All of which comes and goes in cycles, seems to be triggered when I over do it with work around the house or a certain amount of exercise, and sometimes it has no rhyme or reason which all of you I’m sure can relate to. With that said I continue to push forward do my best to stay busy be there for my family and career. Recently I’ve been going to an integrated medical center, they ran a ton of blood test, RBC for Mag was low even though I’m still taking between 500 – to 100MG’s a day, my RBC b12 also was low. The big one though was the intestinal Candida my yeast levels were very high, included with a very good probiotic that specifically helps in this area the integrated doc also wants to put me on Nysatin to help get my gut in order. I know there has been allot of discussions regarding antifungal medication,curious if anyone specifically has taken Nystatin or something similar and what there experience was post floxed.

    • Virginia November 25, 2019 at 9:09 pm Reply

      Hi Kyle, I have taken Nystatin post-floxing and responded well to it. It might have upset my delicate stomach, however, so I’m now on Renew Life’s CandiSmart which is working as well as the Nystatin for me to remove systemic itching (especially if I cheat by eating sugar).

      • Kyle November 27, 2019 at 9:44 am Reply

        Hi Virginia- thank you so much for you response, that helps. I will also look into the supplement you mentioned.

  29. Lukasz November 22, 2019 at 4:04 pm Reply

    Any folks here have experience with prednisone? My body is completely falling apart on me. Down to skin and bones now. Starting to look like polychondritis or a similar condition that causes inflammation and strips away cartilage and collagen from the body. Anyone tried this steroid and if so, has it helped to combat inflammation and loss of cartilage and collagen?

    • L November 22, 2019 at 5:05 pm Reply

      Stay away! I am certain that part of the reason I was so obliterated by the cipro was that I was also given prednisone. And while immediately it may feel like it helps, in the long wrong it will destroy everything. Please stay away. If you were going to try an RX again I would suggest getting compounded low dose naltrexone https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dangers+of+prednisone&view=detail&mid=D59BC3E11E1DA7ED9EF2D59BC3E11E1DA7ED9EF2&FORM=VIRE

      • Lukasz November 22, 2019 at 7:10 pm Reply

        Glad I asked. Digital white coats and pharma puppets alike are hailing this drug online as a way of stopping the inflammation and muscle loss. I had a bad feeling about it. Thanks for confirming it, L. Have you had this kind of inflammation where it feels like your muscles and cartilage are on fire? I had it a while ago as well but it came back full force yesterday after having a large amount of blood drawn. Then I noticed massive weight loss overnight and further deterioration of my skeletal system, especially muscle loss. As I stated earlier, I’m basically skin and bones at this point.

        Also, did you say you had interstitial cystitis at one point? If I recall correctly, you used Aloe Vera capsules to treat it, right?

        • L November 22, 2019 at 7:54 pm

          No, I didn’t experience the muscle thing (about the ONLY thing I didn’t experience!) my gut was devastated and I lost 1/4 of my body weight in 3 weeks. So weak I couldn’t walk without assistance. I think that was mostly due to my gut being trashed, but who knows. And yes the aloe vera caps did help. As did Chinese herbal medicine that I got from my acupuncturist, who knows how to mix TCM.
          While you are trying to figure this all out if you have smoothies for any meal, you might want to throw a couple tablespoons of organic coconut oil in there. Antiinflammatory and will help you put weight back on.

        • Lukasz November 22, 2019 at 8:23 pm

          Did you manage to gain the weight back? Are you back to your regular weight now? My scale is out of service for the moment but judging by the mirror, I’m probably at my lowest weight ever. It’s so bad that I feel pain all day and all night long because my body feels compressed. The muscle that used to support my weight is gone causing this compression to occur. It feels like I’m being crushed from all sides. I don’t wish this kind of pain on my worst enemy.

          How long would you recommend taking the aloe vera caps? What’s the best dosage? I haven’t tried acupuncture or Chinese herbal medicine as yet. I may have to look into both but I’m concerned about safety and quality issues. So many of them out there. What’s TCM? Traditional Chinese Medicine? That’s great advice re: the coconut oil. I make smoothies every few days so I’ll be sure to add in the organic coconut oil next time I make it. Thanks a lot for this info.

        • L November 22, 2019 at 11:50 pm

          yes. Took about a year. now I am back to my old self where I have to be careful not to gain weight. But part of the reason it took me so long is because a the time I was having those awful breathing issues and it was either breathe or chew. Couldn’t do both. So I lived on smoothies for a year.

          as for the aloe vera, I don’t remember how much I used. I think I just followed the directions on the bottle. this doesn’t say how much but has good info on the type. https://www.simple-remedies.com/alternative-therapies/aloe-vera-for-interstitial-cystitis.html

          yes tcm is traditional Chinese medicine …and the coconut oil was the advice given me by the ND that I credit with saving my life post cipro

        • Barbara Arnold November 23, 2019 at 2:21 am

          Lukasz, Here are some suggestions that have helped others gain back weight and muscle building that you could research.
          Have you had your thyroid checked ?
          Collagen Powder, Vit C helps collagen to be utilized.
          Digestive enzymes
          Protein Powder, and Coconut oil, Organic Bone broth
          Advocado, Heavy creme
          Olive oil.

          I’ve looked on facebook fluroquine sites for weight loss, muscle loss etc and this is what I’ve found. Most people say they got their weight back eventually. If you able muscle strengthing exercises done every day also help.
          Please stay away from all steroids, in the long term they will damage you further.
          Hope this helps a little.

        • Don M November 23, 2019 at 5:20 am

          Luzask…… Regarding Aloe Vera. https://www.desertharvest.com/super-strength-aloe-vera-90-capsules.html#product-details-tab-description
          Here is a site that sells the freeze dried Aloe Vera. Apparently it takes a lot of it to be effective. Also it appears to take more than just a few days to get results. They are recommending 3600 mg per day for as long as 3 months. Then after that …… maintenance. This stuff is not cheap but it is the only one that is discussing Aloe Vera specifically for interstitial cystitis. Without taking enough it appears that one is wasting their $$$$. Search around for their protocol because they seem to be the only one discussing it.

          Only can post one reference web site or the post is rejected. There are other Aloe Vera products available but none as strong.

        • L November 23, 2019 at 10:52 am

          I don’t recall how much I took, but I know I did not take it for months…more like weeks

        • Lukasz November 23, 2019 at 12:24 pm

          Thanks to all of you for the feedback. I really appreciate it. I ended up finding an aloe vera supplement at my local health store and have taken my first dose with breakfast. I’ll take another dose with dinner and continue with it for several months as I’ve heard that it can take awhile for full improvement. The supplement I picked up is equivalent to 10g of fresh Aloe Vera gel. Recommendation is 2 softgels per day, so 100mgs per day total. Hopefully, it will be sufficient. The bonus of using this supplement is that it’s used in herbal medicine as a demulcent to help soothe irritation / inflammation of the gastrointestinal tract which is great since that’s another major problem area of mine.


          Thank you for taking the time to look those things up. That’s very kind of you. I’m still trying to find the root cause of my malabsorbtion issues. This is essentially why I’m unable to gain any weight. Something in my digestive tract is really screwed up and food isn’t being absorbed. I’ve had my thyroid checked before with the usual, basic tests, but I’m currently awaiting the results of a more comprehensive set of tests that will paint a better picture of the thyroid situation.


          Thanks for the info. Hopefully the supplement I picked up earlier today will do the trick and I won’t have to resort to more expensive options. I may add in cranberry juice to help things along but for now I’ll do the aloe vera softgels on their own to see if they take care of the problem.


          Thanks again for your help. I took a teaspoon of coconut oil this morning and took my first aloe vera softgel with breakfast and already I feel less pain in the bladder area. Hopefully, as I increase both the coconut oil and softgels, things will return to normal. Any idea which juice is better to use for bladder and urinary tract issues… cranberry or pomegranate? Or are they both equally effective?

        • L November 23, 2019 at 12:38 pm

          While I think they are both good, I think drinking them in sufficient amounts would mean way too much sugar for you. While it is normally best to get nutrients from foods, in this case I would choose supplements. But if you just want to add a glass of one or the other… https://www.mojofury.com/pomegranate-juice-vs-cranberry-juice/

        • Lukasz November 23, 2019 at 12:50 pm

          Good point about the high sugar intake. I might skip the juices for now and see if the Aloe Vera takes care of the problem. Thanks again.

        • Madge Hirsch November 23, 2019 at 1:52 pm

          I drink aloe vera juice. It does not taste great so I mix it with a bit of orange juice. When I was suffering a lot of diverticulitis attacks prior to my colectomy it helped sooth my guts a lot. I have had pain in what feels like my stomach on and off for many years since my 1999 floxing and recently this has reared it’s head again so I am hoping the aloe vera will help this and have started it again.

        • Lukasz November 23, 2019 at 2:42 pm


          Yeah, I heard the taste of aloe vera juice is not great so that’s why I decided to go with the softgels, though the juice is probably better absorbed by the body. I know what you mean about the stomach pain. Been having a lot of pain there as of late.

          One thing gets resolved and another one is waiting around the corner to take its’ place. Tired of this…

        • L November 23, 2019 at 3:07 pm

          also, per the article I posted, they do not recommend using the liquid…only freeze dried caps

        • Barbara Arnold November 24, 2019 at 1:25 am
    • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 4:01 am Reply

      Lukasz,I think that here,with your skin problems,Infrared and near-infrared therapee might be of use.The filament lamps are cheap,but there are also lots of (quite expensive) led infrared devices in the market.You might read back a bit,on FloxieHope;this item is frequently discussed,here,recently.I hope this works for you;your post sounds alarming,and Prednisone is bad stuff.

      • Lukasz November 23, 2019 at 12:38 pm Reply

        The issues aren’t so much with my skin, rather it’s what’s going on underneath the skin that’s the issue. Extensive muscle loss, accompanying weakness and things of that sort. I may have picked up an infection while at the blood laboratories. I don’t know for sure but something around the time of getting my blood taken has caused massive weight loss. I’m having lots of pain in the bones as well. Again, could all be related to some infection, even the bladder infection may be causing these issues.

        With your and everyone else’s advice, I’ll be sure to steer clear of Prednisone.

        • Barbara Arnold November 23, 2019 at 11:28 pm

          I’ve been trying to send you a link to a site about SIBO. This is a possible cause of your malabsorbtion. Some sites recommend antibioctics to ‘cure’ it. I even came across one recommending ‘cipro’ WHAT.?? I e-mailed them and told them to get updated. Anyhow I did find one site the one I’ve tried to post and it had all your symptoms of malasorbtion, so it’s a possible. Maybe you could research this ?? In the meantime I’ll do a search on facebook and see what others are doing for it.

        • Barbara Arnold November 24, 2019 at 1:11 am


          There is a lot of info on SIBO Lukasz, and lots of natural cures. You can get a breath test to see if you have it. Your symptoms of malabsortion are the same as SIBO and its pretty common with floxies. Hope this helps.

        • Lukasz November 24, 2019 at 12:59 pm


          SIBO is a definite possibility, but there’s so many diseases and conditions that can cause malabsorption. The list is long. Doing the breath test to rule it out can’t hurt. My guess is that naturopaths and integrative MDs would be the ones doing them. I have an appointment with one down the road so I may request this test while there.

          Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

        • Barbara Arnold November 24, 2019 at 10:58 pm

          Good Luck Lukasz, I hope you get it sorted. Doing the breath test will at least tell you one way or the other.

  30. Barbara Arnold November 23, 2019 at 2:24 am Reply

    Forgot to add, some found medical cannabis also helpful

  31. Andrea November 23, 2019 at 5:01 am Reply

    Henk, what do you think about the site where I bought the lamp? Do you think it’s a reliable seller? Also, what do you know about infrared light therapy on face and/or skull? Do you thionk it could be dangerous

    • Don M November 23, 2019 at 5:43 am Reply

      Andrea……….. Light therapy dangerous? Ha, ha, ha. Sorry about the comment but “dangerous”. What about the crap that has put you where you are today. That was not dangerous? I’ll leave the rest to be explained by Henk. Sorry for my dissertation but light therapy has been around since the beginning of time. Used right it is good and definitely not dangerous.

      Today there are helmets that are made with infrared emitting diodes in them.

      • Andrea November 23, 2019 at 5:51 am Reply

        Sorry Don, but what being extra careful with some new (for me) treatment has to do with FQ toxicity ? I mean, I destroyed my gut flora by just taking an ” all natural probiotic” who was reccomended to me by a naturopath, so, who knows if NIRLT could be dangerous to some of us…plus, I’ve read a number of studies that show how NIRLT can damage your eyes.

        • Don M November 23, 2019 at 7:12 am

          Andrea…………. Your right about that possibility of eye damage from infrared light. But what reason would one have for looking into that light? The caution is only……….. don’t look directly into an infrared light. I now need to get off my “high horse” and be quiet.

          I can empathize with your problems because I deal with many of them too. Hang in her and keep searching. The problem that we as floxies must deal with is that the homeostasis in our bodies has been upset by fluoroquinolones. I have come to believe that ALL laboratory concocted prescription medications are culprits in upsetting our body’s homeostasis. The more of them we take the more confused our bodies get. Is this what the present medical community is trying to achieve so that we become dependent on their drugs? Our return to prefloxed state depends on achieving that homeostasis again.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 7:44 am

          Hi Don,low intensity (near-) infrared light is used to improve eye health and can even repair some retina damage.Blue light causes retina damage and should not be pointed to the eye;better to avoid this light,if possible.Those “white” led lamps are,in fact a mixture of blue and yellow leds,and wiil in the future prove to be a disaster for our eyes.It might even be the most important reason why some scientists lobby for putting an infrared component into those leds (one technician even advices to put an oldfiashoned filament into the led to accomplish this :-))

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 7:30 am Reply

      Andrea,red,infrared and near-infrared light is perfectly safe;in low intensity it is even used for eye treatment.Blue (led) light,and every frequency outside of the visual spectrum,except for (near-)infrared light,is dangerous;blue light is very risky for your eyes and causes retina damage.

      Important to know:white led light is,in fact,not white,but a mix of blue and yellow light.It looks like white light to our (human) eyes,but it contains the blue light spectrum and is dangerous for the eye retina!

      In short: your lamp is safe to use,and protective eyewear is not neccesary.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 7:52 am Reply

      Andrea,I can’t tell you anything about the reliability of that seller;you might look around for reviews,but those aren’t always reliable,either.

      You can safely aim your lamp at the skull,or wherever you want to use it.On the

      https://redlightman.com/blog/red-light-restores-vision-and-eye-health/redlightman website there’s a page about red light and eye safety,with an long list of studies,and some usefull comments:


  32. Don M November 23, 2019 at 5:33 am Reply

    L………. Very good short article about Aloe Vera for interstitial cystitis. https://www.simple-remedies.com/alternative-therapies/aloe-vera-for-interstitial-cystitis.html
    All floxies should read it. Many times the interstitial cystitis is mistaken for a UTI and doctors are quick to dole out an antibiotic when it is not needed. It appears that floxies must monitor their own doctors so that the doctor does not cause them more problems. A sad situation but seemingly true.

  33. Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 7:59 am Reply

    ABS? My first thought: what’s the ABS car brake system got to do with health? Well;here,ABS stands for Auto-brewery syndrome (alcolol junkie’s wet dream ;-))

    The reason I put it to the attention of the floxie community: this might be one of the reasons for the brainfog,so common in floxies:


  34. Don M November 23, 2019 at 8:44 am Reply

    As floxies we already know about how devastating Fluoroquinolones can be. I just think it interesting that this is circulating on Facebook. Please copy the URL and paste it where ever you can. https://www.theodysseyonline.com/antibiotics-are-killing-people?fbclid=IwAR0frHjYP2TkdM2IfHcSr6VXbc2Ahqu3H99RNmDG1Aw6EnmjWXbEhNaTOHo
    More articles like this are needed on every venue to help more people be aware of Fluoroquinolones.

    Very discouraging when many doctors do not even know the word Fluoroquinolone.

    • L November 23, 2019 at 11:30 am Reply

      I’d have cut out the “listen to your doctor” at the end, in spit of the warning to read the label. It is good this is circulating but it also does not begin to cover the side effects I experienced, not does it say that MILLIONS (perhaps hundreds of millions) have been harmed. It’s a start.

  35. Andrea November 23, 2019 at 8:52 am Reply

    Thnks Henk and Don. Now that I’m here, has anyone ever tried this particular probiotic, Bacillus Laterosporus ?

    • Don M November 23, 2019 at 10:19 am Reply

      Andrea………. I am guessing what I said earlier about homeostasis may apply to your problems. I was “sold” a every expensive item ($100 for a bag of powder that lasts 15 days) by my chiropractor that is for repairing a leaky gut and getting things on the right track. It did work, but one bag was not enough. I ended up with 3 bags and 45 days of it. I would suggest that you get some “plain” yogurt and eat it several times a day. Plain
      “natural” yogurt has many good bacteria in it. I get mine in a 4 pound tub from the grocery store. I question the benefit of many of the combo probiotics. Lay off the fancy special stuff and look for the natural things.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 11:36 am Reply

        Kefir yoghurt might be as good,or even better,and you can make it yourself.Important: many commercial yoghurts are pasturised,or even sterilized;those won’t work because they only contain dead bacteria.

        When you can find it: fresh milk,directly from cow or goat.Has lots of benefitial bacteria and enzymes.Don’t buy from a megafarm,but from a farmer family who drinks this milk themselves,every day;this is the best way to know it’s safe,and clean.

        • Don M November 23, 2019 at 1:06 pm

          Andrea …Henk… I forgot to mention sauerkraut. I mean the kind you make yourself. As Henk says with few exceptions all store bought is pasteurized and all the beneficial bacteria is killed. Making kraut is easy and the Internet has plenty of information about how to do it yourself. Actually many things can be fermented and good bacteria produced that are good for the gut.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 23, 2019 at 9:28 am Reply

      The only science I found was it’s perspective as a source of new bioinsecticides,Not a single article about the safety for use in humans,only the usual commercial talk on websites who sell it as a product for the usual miracles.


      Two other articles on NCBI.

  36. L November 24, 2019 at 2:03 am Reply

    Can’t remember now if it was Lukasz or Andrea now who was talking about inflammation, but here is something else you might consider (not cheap) https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/11/24/hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy-benefits.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20191124Z1&et_cid=DM398015&et_rid=756470018

  37. Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2019 at 2:35 am Reply

    Today,Dr.Mercola has an article about hyperbaric oxygen therapy;some of you might be interested,some of you have already used it (if I remember well):


    • L November 24, 2019 at 12:12 pm Reply

      posted it around 3am our time….couldn’t sleep. great minds, (in regards to helping with inflammation among other things)

  38. Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2019 at 2:38 am Reply

    Just received the message from L’.,with the same link.You’re a bit faster than I am,L. ;-))

  39. Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2019 at 3:03 am Reply

    Big mistake;at the moment I feel terrible,physically and mentally.All started yesterday evening.Was very satisfied after making a new batch of Cocos oil soap (2,4 kilo’s,parfumed with Ceder oil).After finishing my daily works I sat down to view a docu,and drank a bottle of beer.Because I was still thirsty and it wasn’t yet time for going to bed,for the first time since I was floxed,three years ago,I drank a second bottle of beer.

    This night,after about 4 hours of sleep,I woke up and noticed the heart palpitations were back.I was feeling very bad,but fell asleep again after over an hour,to wake up very tired,and still having the papitations.I hope they will go away,soon;had them right after my first Cipro pill and they lasted for over a year,the slowly vanished.Did have minor paplitatios,sometime,since,which were very short,most of them lasted less than a minute.

    The only time I had such a relapse as today was,after drinking a cup of tea,which happened 2 times during my second floxie year (never drank tea,again,since).This time is worse;they’re there every few minutes,and quite hefty.I drink alcohol,only in the weekend,and limit my intake to one (33cl) bottle of beer,sometimes a 1/2 ltr. bottle,or one espressocup with ca. 3/4 liquor (Italian liquors being my favorites :-)),and this never gave me problems untill now.

    Felt so good,yesterday,with my new stach of soap,ready for the coming 1/2 year,or so,and now the happy feeling is gone,because of drinking that second bottle of beer.Damn!

    • Don M November 24, 2019 at 7:03 am Reply

      Henk……… Bummer!!! … Could magnesium help the situation? I keep available to me liquid magnesium because Dr. Carolyn Dean claims that it does not pass through the digestive system but goes into the blood by a more direct rout which makes it more available to the cells quicker. Angstrom magnesium is similar. Also what about topical magnesium oil?

      Really bad that we must toe the line so closely or pay a price in some way.

      I live in Arizona and I have been checking the time in Amsterdam just for fun to see the time difference and when you are normally up and on the web site. All the time on postings is US Central Standard time. Colorado time. No indication of the local time of posters around the world.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2019 at 7:37 am Reply

        Hi Don,things are getting a little better,now.After I cooked my noon meal,my heart started to get more stable,and slowly the extreme tiredness is getting less.I was very shaky and feeling cold,but this,too,is getting better,so,I’m gonna put some magn.oil on my skin in a minute.This was,indeed,a bummer;the last few days I felt great;better than ever after being floxed,as far as I remember.Hope to be fine again,in a few days.

        • Madge Hirsch November 24, 2019 at 12:24 pm

          Are you by any chance having atrial fibrillation attack? I remember you saying you took Flecainide at sometime . I have this ( first attack after Cipro exposure) and I have found magnesium taurate very helpful. I take 3 100 mg capsules spread out . I am very careful about acohol intake as too much has triggered attacks in the past. Normally at home I have only a very small glass of wine with the main meal -about 10cl. Yesterday we went out for lunch and I had a bit more and today have felt a bit off but no palps. Beer is also bloating and often palps can be caused by vagus nerve issues.

        • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2019 at 3:35 am

          Hi Madge,nothing wrong with your memory ;-)) I still use Flecainide.After over 15 years of using Losec/Omeprazole,which my (then) doc pushed on me,I had developed a long list of health problems,among which were the daily atrial fibrillation attacks,which were there for quite a few years before.In nov. 2013 I got two such hefty attacks,in two weeks time that I was rushed to the hospital in an ambulance.

          At that time I already knew that the Losec had caused a big magnesium defficiency,and I was supplementing on magnesium but this didn’t help well,surely not with the fibrillation attacks.I think that PPI’s block magnesium from entering the cells;the level in my blood,which was tested on my demand during my second stay in the hospital,was oké,they told me.The first time I “visited” the hospital,I was prescribed Flecainide,but my second time,there,two weeks later,proved it was not working well.

          My prescription was changed from 100 mg (2 x 50 mg) Flecainide to 200 mg Flecainide Retard (slow uptake),which I still use out of pure fear for another attack.What did solve the problem,I’m 99,9% sure of this,is the fact that,immediately after the second attack I quit the Losec and never had those fibrillations again,untill sept.2016,when I was floxed by Cipro.But this was a different type of cardiac arrythmia,with my heart missing one beat,and then compensation with two very strong beats,time after time,for a few minutes to,sometimes,hours.The first attack was,shortly after taking the first pill,on my way to the supermarket and it almost threw me of my bike!

          My first thought was that,because the doc had lowered the Flecainide from 200 to 100 mg. this could be the cause.Antibiotics,everybody knows,are perfectly safe,right?Here I have to explain why my doc lowered the Flecainide dose;she had just received a warning,NOT to combine Flecainide and Cipro,but,because Cipro was (and probably still is) her favorite AB,and after phoning around for 1/2 hour, with collegeas and “specialists”,she descided to prescribe it anyway.Lowering the Flecainide dose should,in her opinion,be oké.Her gamble,my risk.

          Well,she was totaly wrong,but never admitted she was.Contrary to that;she was very angry that I stopped the Cipro after having taken another three of those poison pills,and only calmed down after I told her that I stopped in consultation with the weekend doc,a collegea of hers.After I insisted,she even sent me to the hospital for a heart movie;about 10 seconds,and,of course,between two attacks.Their,and her conclusion: nothing wrong!

          I only took that Cipro poison,while knowing/feeling something was not 100% right,here,because I had a fever (39,9 Celcius),and was in a lot of pain (suspected Diverticulitis;never saw the damned specialist during the 1+ hour I lay in hospital,waiting for him to examen me;clearsighted,I suppose :-(( I had a bladder infection,at the same time,and the cause was a big kidney stone that got stuck in my urethra.All at the same time! Because of the pain,the fever and the malaise my brain didn’t work like it should have;otherwise I should have asked her for an other AB.Don’t know if that should have helped;she would probably have pushed on me for the Cipro,first,and than,with reluctance,have prescribed another FQ.

          I do,sometimes,experience someting I recognise as a possible atrial fibrillation,but it is too mild to even be shure.And those palpitations,which were absolutely not suppressed by the Flecainide,lasted for about one year,fading away over time.Only to come back for a few days after drinking a cup of tea,twice,and now,after my second bottle of beer.Well,I stopped,drinking tea,and never went back to that doc (she made more,rediculous,mistakes than just the Cipro,that time,you know;she should retire,as soon as possible).

          Now the good news (at last! ;-)) :today,I feel great,again (for a floxie,that is :-)) My heart is beating it’s regular beat,the extreme weariness has gone and my brain is working like it should (not perfectly clear but Floxie clear ;-)) In the future I’ll limit to just one bottle of beer!

    • Andrea November 24, 2019 at 7:05 am Reply

      Damn Henk! I’m so sorry for you…but this is floxie life,right? One day you might feel almost fine again, the next few hours you feel like crap. What amazes me is how , apperently little, things we do can cause such a huge difference in our symtomps. Just like drinking double the amount of beer you usaully drink (still not that much, just a 66 cl bottle) , apperently gave you some form of relapse. You’ve mentioned that the palpitations lasted a year, maybe this time they will last way less. I didn’t drink alchol, even before being floxed, so I don’t know how it will affect me, but I remember a guy, at the hearing in London, who told me that alchol was bad for him, not as much as caffeine, but still wasn’t the best thing to drink. I know it sucks, but I suggest you to avoid even small amounts of alchol for now on. Then if the symtoms start to get better, try very small amounts of beer or your favorite drink again, with caution.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2019 at 8:01 am Reply

        Hi Andrea,I drink these beers quite often,in summer.Prefer wine or liquors in winter.I looked at those bottles,because these special beers have more alc. than the “usual”beer.Well,these twoo (33cl,each) are quite high in alc.:the Rochefort abbey beer has 8,4 %,the (second bottle) Pauls Kwak has an amazing (for beer) 9,2 %.Because I was thirsty,I drank the first bottle in a short time,and the alc. kicked in just after I started the second one.

        You’re right;the next few weeks I won’t drink any alcoholic drinks,and after that I’ll start with some low alc. beer;my neighbour gave me 15 bottles for my birthday,in april,and I still have over half of those,left.Enough choice (they’re a collection of all different kinds of beer),so,there will be some with low alcohol,there :-))

        I have no problems with coffee,but did (re-)start drinking it,after being floxed,with little bits,and no sugar.Now I drink óne doppio espresso,every day,after my warm noon meal,with two teaspoons of raw cane sugar,and,very seldom,a second doppio espresso,later in the afternoon.No problems.I mis my tea;this was my main drink since my youth,but after two cups,in my second floxie year,and both times a relapse,I (almost) excepted that tea drinking will be a big no-no for the rest of my life.

        The experiences I had with modern,science based medicines,since the last 20 years,and the things I learned about it made perfectly clear to me that the farmaceutic and chemical industry are the most sick-making industries this world has ever seen.As soon as menkind started “inproving” on the Great Creator” things went wrong,and since the last 150-200 years the Crazy Alchemists have poisoned everybody,and everything on earth,playing their “Modern Gods” game.

    • A.Coleman November 26, 2019 at 10:34 am Reply

      Henk – sorry for the bad swing to the worse you experienced. Life of a floxie is crazy – ups and downs are so frustrating. Especially after feeling good for a bit.

      In the spirit of FloxieHope I will give you some hope – I just went through 5 days of pretty much feeling like myself; started a slow relapse now; but those 5 days were great. I was 95% or more normal all day those five days. Hopefully by this time next year it will be permanent.

      I had energy, brain fog / head pressure was mostly gone, digestion was good and even neuropathy was pretty good. I went out with my wife Saturday afternoon and then we even spontaneously made some stops to do Christmas shopping and ended up at a bar watching American football. Next day I completed some much overdue maintenance on my house and even put up some Christmas decorations inside. Monday after work I even had energy to finish the deferred maintenance. Today I am back to a bit of brain fog / head pressure and more tired.

      Still I was well for those 5 days and previously 2 days was my “record”. Sure that I overdid it a bit when I felt good and that contributed to this relapse. And even this relapse is far better than I felt only 6 months ago when my head pressure and headaches was almost more than I could bear.

      Interestingly I note that my head problems tend to be worst upon arising and get slowly better during the day, especially getting better after I eat lunch. I know you have speculated about the role of hypoglycemia in floxies. I wonder. My blood glucose is high normal (around 95) when checked after fasting; but I wonder if I might not have big swings in blood glucose over the course of the day??

      Hope you feel better soon and are able to return to moderate beer consumption before too long.

      • Henk Noordhuizen November 26, 2019 at 12:08 pm Reply

        Hi A.Coleman,thanks;I’m doing much better,now.Just like you I had some very good day’s;hadn’t felt like that for a very long time.At moments I even thought that I felt better than before being floxed,but I must say that I already felt bad to,sometimes horrible since I started the Losec,which my former doc pushed on me,in 1998.That took me to the Flecainide,which,in turn,brought me to the Cipro.That’s the way the system works;every “medicine” pushes you in the direction of another “medicine”.So;in fact,I’m sick of medicines since 1998.

        Today I started being active,again.Cut my new soap stack into 24 pieces of ca. 100 gram.Tomorrow,or the day after I make another batch (mandarin parfumed),and the total will last for at least a year (if I don’t give too much of it away ;-).The one I made now is Cocos-oil with Ceder-perfume (100% natural,steam destillated) This one is really easy and gentle on my,by antibiotics damaged skin.

        Did some more research,during the last few days and descided to not only start experimenting with Pau D’Arco tea,but also add vit.B3 and Selenium to my supps.The Selenium should also help against brain fog;anybody with experience with Selenium,here?

        Well;I’ve learned my lesson.Like you,I overdid with activities,before,on days of feeling fine,but this time I overdid with a bottle of beer;a first for me ;-)) And the chance of me,repeating this mistake is small.Still strange,if not funny:I can’t drink even ONE cup of my absolute favorite,and untill Cipro main drink:tea,but I can drink a bottle of (hefty) special beer,or 1/2 liter of “normal beer (4,5 %) without any problem.Formerly,when someone asked “Want a beer” and I said “No,I’d rather want a cup of tea”,people laughed and looked strange at me.Things change;Cipro takes care of that :-((

        Well,A. Coleman;I hope your top days come back,soon,and mine as well.Even the shortlived really good days bring hope in our lives :-))

  40. Dee November 24, 2019 at 8:13 am Reply

    Henk, about a year ago in the evening I had a small glass of wine and was fine. Then maybe a month later I had maybe a glass and a half? My heart started pounding away. I was upset and concerned. I was ok by the next day. I haven’t had the nerve to try another glass of wine since then and I love my red wine! I “think” too much somehow affects our GABA receptors in an opposing reaction since GABA receptors are damaged?? I had a severe opposing reaction to half a mg of melatonin that actually caused raging tinnitus for months and and to this day still have but much much quieter. My Doc thought it was because my GABA receptors were damaged they reacted in the opposite way to a calming substance???? Just a thought??

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 24, 2019 at 11:15 am Reply

      Hi Dee,I’ve felt no palpitations now,for several hours.,and while I’ve been totaly exhausted since wake-up,during the last hour I’m feeling more energetic,now.I still don;t understand what this bad reaction on alcohol caused,but obviously,2 bottles of special,high alcohol beer is too much for me,since beeing floxed.I would have felt tipsy from this much alcohol,in the past,but not with the same terrible reaction,next day.Strangely enough when I woke up,4 hours after falling asleep,I felt quite clear in the head,and the tipsy feeling had totaly gone,but then there were these heart palpitations.

      I’ll have to get used to limit myself to drinking only small amounts of alcoholic drinks,in the future.More like tasting than like drinking,I guess.

  41. E November 24, 2019 at 1:45 pm Reply

    Is erythromycin safe to take after floxing? Its either that or bactrim those are my only choices.

    • Andrea November 25, 2019 at 12:07 am Reply

      E, I’ll post you the link about an article on this website. There’s a list of POSSIBLY safe antibiotics to use after FQ toxicity. Of course you have to understand that there’s no sure answer to your question. Something that doesn’t hurt you, could hurt someone else and vice versa.

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2019 at 2:09 am Reply

      Hi E.,I noticed Andrea forgot to put the link in his mail.Here it is:


    • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2019 at 2:11 am Reply

      And there are quite a few natural antibiotics/antibacterials,depending on the problem.

  42. Dee November 25, 2019 at 8:08 am Reply

    Hi floxies! I don’t know if any of you can help me out on this one or have any thoughts?? Three weeks ago I had 2 very small skin growths cut out (1 upper back/1 lower leg) the Doc used Lidocaine to numb the area. I’m almost positive I had a reaction to the lidocaine as I got itchy red bumps popping up near the sores and randomly on different areas of my body. The itchy red spots are still hanging around and flare up and down. The sore on my back which was bigger still hasn’t healed all the way yet after 3 weeks. I’m trying to get into Doc to have her look at it. I’m pretty sure she will want to give me a steroid cream as the one sore is pretty irritated but doesn’t seem infected. I refuse to use steroid cream. 3 weeks seems like a really long time to still be healing!!?? But maybe not for a floxie?? Any ideas of cream or something to put on irritated red skin and bumps? I also think my allergic reaction is still going on too after 3 weeks!!?? Any ideas?

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2019 at 8:58 am Reply

      Hi Dee,as several people,including me, already wrote:healing of even small wounds,takes a very long time in floxies.Not weeks,but several months! Little skin schratches,musquito bites and other minor skin damage takes ages.And please;take the warnings of others about steroids/steroid creams very serieus;floxies do,often,have very nasty reactions when steroids are involved.

    • L November 25, 2019 at 10:27 am Reply

      Hey Dee, my suggestion would be to try some colloidal silver gel. The brand I always use is Sovereign Silver. It came recommended through several different channels.

  43. Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2019 at 9:27 am Reply

    Dr. Rath said, “Drugs are generally synthetic, non-natural substances that we absorb in our bodies. Our bodies recognize these synthetic drugs as ‘toxic,’ just like any other non-natural substance.


  44. Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2019 at 9:28 am Reply
  45. Dee November 25, 2019 at 9:40 am Reply

    Henk. Thanks. I do take steroids very seriously and will not use them. I guess the sore and maybe even red bumps may take a “very long” time to heal?? Although I still think the red bumps are some kind of allergic reaction so I guess that can take weeks to months to subside too????

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2019 at 10:16 am Reply

      Yes,Dee;it will probably last al teast 3 month.A little ficus sap burn on my arm (while pruning my fig trees) took 4-5 month to fully disappear.Even very small scratches on the skin of my arms,take 2-4 month! I know this sounds extremely long but remember the FQ’s damage DNA and mtDNA,making a perfect healing of whatever damage to your body sort af a little miracle.And miracles do need patience,to happen :-))

      In fact,every living thing is a miracle in itself,of course!

      • Don M November 25, 2019 at 11:57 am Reply

        Henk and Dee….. Here is old Donnie again with his light therapy thing. I have a cat that likes to bite me as a “love bite”. Healing of these small bites is much quicker when I use a bit of red, and infrared light from a bulb. Dee……. Try the light therapy on your skin problems. Skin issues is one of the strongest selling points that sellers of light products use. Light therapy is to often overlooked as a non invasive and effective health tool. It goes without saying that the “pharma” industry would rather you did not know about light therapy. They and doctors would much rather provide you with a prescription medication. Infrared bulbs run from the basic at around $10 to the LED models at under $40. Look at Amazon and eBay. There is no perceptible heat from the LED bulbs where the filament infrared kind (less money) make quite a bit of heat.

  46. Dee November 25, 2019 at 1:35 pm Reply

    Ok all of you I just got back from the dermatologist and since most of the red bumps are around my sores she thinks it is contact dermatitis because of the bandaids I put on them. I did react to the bandaids but stopped using them a couple of weeks ago. The red bumps that are there just keep flaring up getting red and itchy and then calm down for a little while. They will not go away and leave. Personally I think it was a combination of the lidocaine and bandaids that have irritated me?? I still seem to be reacting to the procedure! She doesn’t think the “random” itchy red spots that pop up here and there has anything to do with her procedure as they are not near the sores? BUT I didn’t have these bumps appearing before the procedure sooooo????? I attribute them to the lidocaine, although she doesn’t seem to think that would be the cause since the lidocaine is long gone from over 3 weeks ago!? She of course wanted to give me steroid cream and of course she didn’t understand because I had a Cipro reaction 2,5 years ago. I didn’t even try to explain any further nor did she want to hear about it! I’m sure she thought I was whacky!! Anyway she said my only alternative was to take an antihistamine like Claritin?? Is Claritin ok for us to take??? I’m wondering how long this “allergic” reaction will take just to go away on its own?? And will it go away on its own?? Anyone have knowledge of contact dermatitis? Soooo confused!!

    • Nicole November 25, 2019 at 1:52 pm Reply

      Dee, I use Claritin with no problem. I am having a horrible test where lidocaine is needed but will just hold my breath. I had Caine eye drops a few years back and had a 6 month relapse.
      Lidocaine would really help my problems I am having now but afraid of them. I can’t prove the Caine’s caused my relapse as I was under extreme stress at the same time but still afraid of them. Of course when you tell a doctor the reason you can’t use these things they do think you are just paranoid. So like you, I just walk out.
      It seems this makes us afraid of everything. I will add though that I do get reactions to bandaids too. They even leave big blood bruises on me.
      Now some floxies, I believe L is one of them, have no problems with Caine’s.
      It seems we suffer so much because we really don’t know. 😞

  47. Dee November 25, 2019 at 1:40 pm Reply

    Oh I forgot to say she also wanted me to stop all my supplements. She said maybe my random red bumps are from supplements I’m taking even though I have been on them for a couple of years. She said that’s all the more reason? I guess it would hurt to give my body a break from the supplements????

    • Henk Noordhuizen November 25, 2019 at 2:16 pm Reply

      Must be an old school dermatologist ;-)) Why,would you,suddenly,right after the lidocaine,react to your supplements? My answer: might it be because she was the one that gave you the lidocaine? Making not herself,but you,the guilty one?

      Being allergic for the glue of bandages is quite common;she should know that.This might be even worse in/on floxies,because the skin has been changed,and damaged by the FQ.The same happened to me after Cipro;I’m now allergic to latex,and the only way I can wear my stockings without problems is,to fold the elastic rim over the lower part of my stockings,keeping them from comming in direct contact with my skin.Also had to buy new underpants,which have the elastic rim covered by a cotton layer.Don’t know for shure but the bandage glue,or the bandage itself might have some latex in it.

      My first choice for treating those red bumps might be Colloïdal Silverwater snd,f you’re not allergic to Tea Tree oil,that might be a good choice,as well;I combined both for the itchy and bumpy spots the latex gave me,and it helped against the itching and the swelling,but avoiding contact is,of course,the best way to get rid of the problem,long term.Strange fact;the sewlling and the itching,most of the time,only started directly AFTER I removed the (pressure) of my clothes (the stockings and my underwear.)

      The lidocaine may be long gone,but the allergy it caused may take quite a bit longer to overcome.Known side effects of lidocaine:


      Frequency not reported: Urticaria, cutaneous lesion, dermatitis, rash, angioedema, face edema.

  48. jo November 25, 2019 at 1:42 pm Reply

    May I ask which CoQ 10 would be recommended to be the best?

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