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joanneg
4 years ago
Andrea, I take Healus which is tributyrate acid along with potato starch and a probiotic so basically the same thing your doctor ordered you and it works amazing for my stomach, gut inflammation and energy. Just wanted you to know in case you haven’t tried it yet.
I wanted to let you all know that I received an email back from Henk’s account – one of his loved ones wrote me back through Henk’s email. Sadly, Henk is not doing well. He is very weak and his prognosis is poor. I (Lisa) ask you to keep him in your thoughts, and if you are inclined, keep him in your prayers. He sends his regards to the community.
I will send him any notes that you want to post here, or you can send them directly to me through the contact link above and I will forward them to him.
Hugs,
Lisa
Orf
4 years ago
Is Magnesium Cloride ok to take for qinn antibiotic poison? Any info appreciated.
Thank you
Orf
Dee
4 years ago
Lisa. Please send this note to Henk.
Henk, you have always been there for all of us Floxie’s giving us valuable guidance, information and feedback. You have helped us all in our recovery and healing more then you know. Thank you for caring. Please know how much we appreciate your concern and support. I pray that you are finding strength and perseverance to get you through this very trying time. I pray that you also can find a sense of peace through this too. Thank you for being there always for so many of us. You have touched many of us. May you be surrounded in love and light always. Prayers and thoughts are being sent your way. Blessings.
Lisa, please tell Henk that despite not knowing him, his participation in clarifying the floxies problems was essential to my recovery path. I am from Brazil and since I discovered this community with so much information I have been sharing it with my friends and colleagues. Tell Henk that working on it was indispensable for many people, including people from other countries, like me, a resident of Brazil. I wish him recovery soon! Strong hug from someone very grateful.
sinisteressex
4 years ago
Lisa, please tell Henk that despite not knowing him, his participation in clarifying the floxies problems was essential to my recovery path. I am from Brazil and since I discovered this community with so much information I have been sharing it with my friends and colleagues. Tell Henk that working on it was indispensable for many people, including people from other countries, like me, a resident of Brazil. I wish him recovery soon! Strong hug from someone very grateful.
Andrea
4 years ago
Hey L, where are you?
Don M
4 years ago
I am going to recommend that you look into something. It is called Aculief. Watch the video and then go to my next post to see their web site. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umVjJRGJeF8
Don’t laugh. It is based on the old Chinese acupressure idea. Very simple device but works on the L 14 acupressure spot.
Rop van Rijen
4 years ago
Dear friends of Henk,
I am afraid have sad news for you. Henk passed away today. Henk chose the moment of his departure, because he was very ill and tired without any hope for the future. He was in the company of his friends and we guided him out of this life. He had a strong belief that his friends and family that left before him were waiting on the other side.
Thank you for being Henk’s friend
Regards,
Rop
Don M
4 years ago
Henk and I bantered back and forth over several different subjects. It was interesting conversation. I do not know what to say therefore I acknowledge the information and say nothing more.
A.Coleman
4 years ago
Wow – without Henk and L currently not posting it has been almost a week since there was a post on Floxie Hope!!
Don’t have a lot to add other than just checking in to the site to see how everyone is doing. Hope things are well and that is why there are not many posts. Personally hit a bad day Monday but overall trending in the correct direction. One major symptom – brain fog still impacting my life. Digestive issues are nearly corrected and neuropathy, while still present is very manageable most days.
I do have something interesting to share relative to my brain fog. I typically start the day with a light headache; but no brain fog / lightheadedness; headache will go away in an hour or so then around noon brain fog / lightheadedness starts creeping in. IF i do some cardio exercise (around 15 to 20 minutes seems to be enough) then I get some relief in the afternoon. I typically try to exercise a bit again around 5:00 PM. Brain fog will continue to impact me off and on until around 8:00 PM and then for those magic hours from 8 until I go to bed I am pretty much a normal person again. This has resulted in some late nights as I try to “hold on” to that normal. I do note that I still suffer from insomnia though it is slowly improving too; when I actually sleep through the night a few nights in a row my brain fog will be better; if I have multiple nights with less than 6 hours of sleep in a row then brain fog is a bit worse – but this isn’t the whole answer. I hate drugs but have thought a bit about trying a short course of Ambien to see if it makes my brain fog go away.
Any thoughts on the brain fog and the positive impact of exercise? Note that eating also helps some; but not as much as cardio, so do you think that is a clue? Also why does it get better around 8 most days?
I’ve had ultrasounds to check that my major arteries leading to the head are not blocked; which is a known FQ impact. My BP is okay a tiny bit high 125/81 on average; and when I take it just after exercise it is usually lower not higher; but not by a lot – typically 118/79. Blood glucose is okay last time it was checked.
Overall the brain fog is improving but VERY SLOWLY. It has been an impact in my life for 18 months or so now and basically gets less impactful rather than moving the time of impact to be shorter. IF it continues to diminish at this pace it may be another one to two years before it goes away; so any thoughts to help push it along would be appreciated. I have considered if I have a cerebral spinal fluid leak and think that is possible. Next visit to neurologist I am going to push for an X-ray / MRI to try to find out what is going on; I actually think that traditional western medicine might be able to help me here if I can get them on the right track.
All your thoughts and feedback are appreciated. Stay safe and keep hope alive.
Krabiwi
4 years ago
Rest in peace Henk. Very likely flox caused this cancer as the high amount of oxidative stress in various cells can even mutate the nucleus DNA and epigenics. Michalak et al already refered to this effect in his FQAD paper:
” Oxidative Stress and Epigenetic Regulation in Ageing and Age-Related Diseases” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3794746/
Michael
4 years ago
So, I was reading about Chris McCAndless today, the guy who had a book and film called “into the wild” made about him. Anyway long story short he was a kid who – in search of adventure – hitchhiked out to Alaska from Atlanta and lived in an abandoned bus before finally dying. In the meantime he hunted and collected berries etc His body was found by trackers and the official cause of death was starvation…
Fast forward to today, the bus has just been moved by the national guard using a Chinook helicopter to another site as many people were making a pilgrimage themselves to see it and succumbing also to the elements etc
So the official cause of death has been questioned by a few authors. One suggestion is that he ate the seeds of a supposedly non-toxic wild potato plant. See here for more discussion about this:
What interests me is that this wild potato seed although supposedly non-toxic may have a toxicity profile that resembles the toxic Lathyrus sativus grass pea, that has been known since antiquity to cause a neurodegenerative condition called lathyrism. This grass pea was used by nazi “doctors” to experiment on jewish concentration camp prisoners, by giving them bread made from the grass pea. The consequence of these “experiments” was that the people who ate the bread developed profound weakness and wasting of muscles so that they eventually became crippled and many died.
From the link above:
“The more they’d eaten, the worse the consequences—but in any case, once the effects had begun, there was simply no way to reverse them …. The disease is called, simply, neurolathyrism, or more commonly, “lathyrism.”…”
So that sentence “once the effects had begun, there was simply no way to reverse them” kind of resonated with me as a floxie. 1 year on still suffering….
It turns out that the the grass pea has a toxic substance in it called L-beta-ODAP…
what does ODAP do?
It poisons mitochondria, alters their calcium homeostasis, leading to oxidative stress and cell death…
This would tie in with the mechanisms we suspect for fluoroquinolone toxicity. Notably, mitochondrial damage, excitotoxicity oxidative stress and cell death.
It leads me to believe that FQOAD could be considered a form of “lathyrisim” caused by a pharmacological agent (a flurooquinolone) with similar toxicological effects to Lathyrus sativus.
Michael
4 years ago
Clonal* proliferation
Andrea
4 years ago
Lisa. I know maybe I’m asking a little too much, but L hasn’t posted for a long time. Could you please send her an email. I’m getting a little worried. Thank you so much.
Michael
4 years ago
Had anybody had toxicity from B6. I’ve been taking 50mg p-5-p every day and yesterday I took an extra tablet (total 100mg) and felt dizzy and suddenly anxious and spacey.
I’m sure it was the B6. I’m wondering whether it causes brain fog also. I’m going to lay off it for a while (half life is 30 days).
Michael
Michael
4 years ago
What is the pathophysiology of the brain fog caused by Ciprofloxacin? is it neuronal cell death? is it axonal degeneration? Is it mitochondrial dysfunction?
Don M
4 years ago
A. Coleman…… Very good article. I agree that brain fog and dizziness are the two most annoying things. Strangely the Aculief does help a bit. I understand that there are pressure points on each side at the back of the neck where it meets the bottom of the skull bones. It may have some bearing on neck stiffness. Hard to hold one’s thumbs there very long.
Don M
4 years ago
A. Coleman…… Regarding pain. Investigate PEMF. There is plenty of information if you Google PEMF. A good place to start is https://www.drpawluk.com/ He claims to be an expert on the subject. His devices are rather expensive but there are others on the market that run in the $300 to $400 range. Check out Sota and Dr.Clark MagZapper for the ones under $400. Cheaper ones do not make enough power to be very effective. Only one web site reference is allowed here. If one tries to post more the algorithm will not allow the post.
Andrea, I take Healus which is tributyrate acid along with potato starch and a probiotic so basically the same thing your doctor ordered you and it works amazing for my stomach, gut inflammation and energy. Just wanted you to know in case you haven’t tried it yet.
I wanted to let you all know that I received an email back from Henk’s account – one of his loved ones wrote me back through Henk’s email. Sadly, Henk is not doing well. He is very weak and his prognosis is poor. I (Lisa) ask you to keep him in your thoughts, and if you are inclined, keep him in your prayers. He sends his regards to the community.
I will send him any notes that you want to post here, or you can send them directly to me through the contact link above and I will forward them to him.
Hugs,
Lisa
Is Magnesium Cloride ok to take for qinn antibiotic poison? Any info appreciated.
Thank you
Orf
Lisa. Please send this note to Henk.
Henk, you have always been there for all of us Floxie’s giving us valuable guidance, information and feedback. You have helped us all in our recovery and healing more then you know. Thank you for caring. Please know how much we appreciate your concern and support. I pray that you are finding strength and perseverance to get you through this very trying time. I pray that you also can find a sense of peace through this too. Thank you for being there always for so many of us. You have touched many of us. May you be surrounded in love and light always. Prayers and thoughts are being sent your way. Blessings.
Thanks for the Mag. information everyone!
Orf
Lisa, please tell Henk that despite not knowing him, his participation in clarifying the floxies problems was essential to my recovery path. I am from Brazil and since I discovered this community with so much information I have been sharing it with my friends and colleagues. Tell Henk that working on it was indispensable for many people, including people from other countries, like me, a resident of Brazil. I wish him recovery soon! Strong hug from someone very grateful.
Lisa, please tell Henk that despite not knowing him, his participation in clarifying the floxies problems was essential to my recovery path. I am from Brazil and since I discovered this community with so much information I have been sharing it with my friends and colleagues. Tell Henk that working on it was indispensable for many people, including people from other countries, like me, a resident of Brazil. I wish him recovery soon! Strong hug from someone very grateful.
Hey L, where are you?
I am going to recommend that you look into something. It is called Aculief. Watch the video and then go to my next post to see their web site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umVjJRGJeF8
Don’t laugh. It is based on the old Chinese acupressure idea. Very simple device but works on the L 14 acupressure spot.
Dear friends of Henk,
I am afraid have sad news for you. Henk passed away today. Henk chose the moment of his departure, because he was very ill and tired without any hope for the future. He was in the company of his friends and we guided him out of this life. He had a strong belief that his friends and family that left before him were waiting on the other side.
Thank you for being Henk’s friend
Regards,
Rop
Henk and I bantered back and forth over several different subjects. It was interesting conversation. I do not know what to say therefore I acknowledge the information and say nothing more.
Wow – without Henk and L currently not posting it has been almost a week since there was a post on Floxie Hope!!
Don’t have a lot to add other than just checking in to the site to see how everyone is doing. Hope things are well and that is why there are not many posts. Personally hit a bad day Monday but overall trending in the correct direction. One major symptom – brain fog still impacting my life. Digestive issues are nearly corrected and neuropathy, while still present is very manageable most days.
I do have something interesting to share relative to my brain fog. I typically start the day with a light headache; but no brain fog / lightheadedness; headache will go away in an hour or so then around noon brain fog / lightheadedness starts creeping in. IF i do some cardio exercise (around 15 to 20 minutes seems to be enough) then I get some relief in the afternoon. I typically try to exercise a bit again around 5:00 PM. Brain fog will continue to impact me off and on until around 8:00 PM and then for those magic hours from 8 until I go to bed I am pretty much a normal person again. This has resulted in some late nights as I try to “hold on” to that normal. I do note that I still suffer from insomnia though it is slowly improving too; when I actually sleep through the night a few nights in a row my brain fog will be better; if I have multiple nights with less than 6 hours of sleep in a row then brain fog is a bit worse – but this isn’t the whole answer. I hate drugs but have thought a bit about trying a short course of Ambien to see if it makes my brain fog go away.
Any thoughts on the brain fog and the positive impact of exercise? Note that eating also helps some; but not as much as cardio, so do you think that is a clue? Also why does it get better around 8 most days?
I’ve had ultrasounds to check that my major arteries leading to the head are not blocked; which is a known FQ impact. My BP is okay a tiny bit high 125/81 on average; and when I take it just after exercise it is usually lower not higher; but not by a lot – typically 118/79. Blood glucose is okay last time it was checked.
Overall the brain fog is improving but VERY SLOWLY. It has been an impact in my life for 18 months or so now and basically gets less impactful rather than moving the time of impact to be shorter. IF it continues to diminish at this pace it may be another one to two years before it goes away; so any thoughts to help push it along would be appreciated. I have considered if I have a cerebral spinal fluid leak and think that is possible. Next visit to neurologist I am going to push for an X-ray / MRI to try to find out what is going on; I actually think that traditional western medicine might be able to help me here if I can get them on the right track.
All your thoughts and feedback are appreciated. Stay safe and keep hope alive.
Rest in peace Henk. Very likely flox caused this cancer as the high amount of oxidative stress in various cells can even mutate the nucleus DNA and epigenics. Michalak et al already refered to this effect in his FQAD paper:
” Oxidative Stress and Epigenetic Regulation in Ageing and Age-Related Diseases”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3794746/
So, I was reading about Chris McCAndless today, the guy who had a book and film called “into the wild” made about him. Anyway long story short he was a kid who – in search of adventure – hitchhiked out to Alaska from Atlanta and lived in an abandoned bus before finally dying. In the meantime he hunted and collected berries etc His body was found by trackers and the official cause of death was starvation…
Fast forward to today, the bus has just been moved by the national guard using a Chinook helicopter to another site as many people were making a pilgrimage themselves to see it and succumbing also to the elements etc
So the official cause of death has been questioned by a few authors. One suggestion is that he ate the seeds of a supposedly non-toxic wild potato plant. See here for more discussion about this:
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/how-chris-mccandless-died
What interests me is that this wild potato seed although supposedly non-toxic may have a toxicity profile that resembles the toxic Lathyrus sativus grass pea, that has been known since antiquity to cause a neurodegenerative condition called lathyrism. This grass pea was used by nazi “doctors” to experiment on jewish concentration camp prisoners, by giving them bread made from the grass pea. The consequence of these “experiments” was that the people who ate the bread developed profound weakness and wasting of muscles so that they eventually became crippled and many died.
From the link above:
“The more they’d eaten, the worse the consequences—but in any case, once the effects had begun, there was simply no way to reverse them …. The disease is called, simply, neurolathyrism, or more commonly, “lathyrism.”…”
So that sentence “once the effects had begun, there was simply no way to reverse them” kind of resonated with me as a floxie. 1 year on still suffering….
It turns out that the the grass pea has a toxic substance in it called L-beta-ODAP…
what does ODAP do?
It poisons mitochondria, alters their calcium homeostasis, leading to oxidative stress and cell death…
sound familiar? yeah.
here’s a paper on it:
“L-beta-ODAP Alters Mitochondrial Ca2+ Handling as an Early Event in Excitotoxicity”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20129666/
Unsurprisingly, Ciprofloxacin also has an effect on Calcium handling by mitochondria. See paper below:
“Calcium Signals Are Affected by Ciprofloxacin as a Consequence of Reduction of Mitochondrial DNA Content in Jurkat Cells”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472211/
This would tie in with the mechanisms we suspect for fluoroquinolone toxicity. Notably, mitochondrial damage, excitotoxicity oxidative stress and cell death.
It leads me to believe that FQOAD could be considered a form of “lathyrisim” caused by a pharmacological agent (a flurooquinolone) with similar toxicological effects to Lathyrus sativus.
Clonal* proliferation
Lisa. I know maybe I’m asking a little too much, but L hasn’t posted for a long time. Could you please send her an email. I’m getting a little worried. Thank you so much.
Had anybody had toxicity from B6. I’ve been taking 50mg p-5-p every day and yesterday I took an extra tablet (total 100mg) and felt dizzy and suddenly anxious and spacey.
I’m sure it was the B6. I’m wondering whether it causes brain fog also. I’m going to lay off it for a while (half life is 30 days).
Michael
What is the pathophysiology of the brain fog caused by Ciprofloxacin? is it neuronal cell death? is it axonal degeneration? Is it mitochondrial dysfunction?
A. Coleman…… Very good article. I agree that brain fog and dizziness are the two most annoying things. Strangely the Aculief does help a bit. I understand that there are pressure points on each side at the back of the neck where it meets the bottom of the skull bones. It may have some bearing on neck stiffness. Hard to hold one’s thumbs there very long.
A. Coleman…… Regarding pain. Investigate PEMF. There is plenty of information if you Google PEMF. A good place to start is https://www.drpawluk.com/ He claims to be an expert on the subject. His devices are rather expensive but there are others on the market that run in the $300 to $400 range. Check out Sota and Dr.Clark MagZapper for the ones under $400. Cheaper ones do not make enough power to be very effective. Only one web site reference is allowed here. If one tries to post more the algorithm will not allow the post.