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Bruce
4 years ago
Orf, so the supplements you listed help you the most with the tendon pain
Orf
4 years ago
Magnesium seemed to help the most- the supplements I listed are what I took (take) I also use Magnesium oil which seems to help a lot got the info here. Just don’t give up hope- I had read that 30 days was the time frame to improve it took me 100 to get functional so I was worried- but I did improve. Others will to. Not sure if I will recover 100 percent but I am grateful for what I have- thank God every day for it. Quin poisoning is a awful experience. You can’t believe it happened, others don’t believe you, Md’s no help etc. But- Do not give up! you will get better, you will improve. Time heals. Keep punching.
I made some early mistakes- took over the counter pain meds then found out they were counter productive and can make it worse. Drank some coffee, to early exercise- trying to rehab etc. Those things delayed improvement, be aware, try to get the word out to others warn them. Thanks again for the info and people on this website!
God bless you and heal you (us) all.
Orf.
Virginia
4 years ago
Having just left 2 comments about the late Dr. Jay Cohen’s book “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe”, I tried to buy a copy online. It is completely unavailable in any form. I must have checked a dozen sites at least including Amazon and ebay. The copy I tried to download or read online was blocked due to malware on it. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but it seems suspicious to me that there seem to be no copies left of this book anywhere in the world and no way at all to access the book. Other, far older and rarer books with similar limited editions are readily available, but not this title. Could it be that Bayer and other drugs companies that make FQs bought up all the remaining copies after Dr. Cohen died and shredded them? They have every interest to prevent knowledge of the dangers of FQs being spread further. Is it just me that thinks this? Do any of you know where I can get a hard copy? I have a copy on my Kindle, luckily, but would like a hard copy.
I see that I have fallen quite far behind on this blog somehow. MY background is a BS in chemical engineering. Various short courses in Chemistry. When my Dad got Parkinson’s I taught him organic chemistry as relates to Parkinson’s. He became quite good at and discussed treatments with his doctor. So they worked together and Dad’s .life was extended to 26 years compared to the original diagnosis of t years. I only helped for the first 6 months and then they were a good enough team by themselves and Ieft me in the dust.
My work involved chemistry, so I have learned from others with advanced degrees. I was a chemical customer so I would ask for certain properties and discuss how to achieve them.Then there would be trials and we’d learn what worked and what didn’t. Lots of chemical mechanistic thinking. All the advances in chemical additives and base properties in my industry came from my lab for the 15 years while I was there. Very little has advanced in the following 25 years or so. You could say I am no slouch.
I also advocated and refined statistical techniques for research and manufacturing. I used these techniques to study what is going on inside my body. One learns a lot more this way than what the medical profession does with one-thing-at-a-time scientific experiments. The problem with scientific experiments is they reinforce what you believe to start. My techniques force one to face things you don’t know. I didn’t invent these techniques, I just use them and modify the overall approach to be practical.
I am not all that smart but I cheat when I get stuck. God knows the answer, I just have to listen. I feel I am just His tool to get this information out. I am not a median. I just get ideas to evaluate. I can’t be sure I heard correctly so I have to test. Through my career I have extended knowledge past what is in the book. I am research with one very knowledgeable partner.
Well, I’d allow you to say I do good work, but it is important to listen to others. When I published, it was the best I could do. But I sought other input with a questionnaire. The blog has brought important new ideas that improve the recovery protocol.
Together we are going to defeat this toxicity and I believe in short order. It took me three years to learn what I know and free myself from being a Floxie. I don’t know how long it will take to get a fully functional body back. Depending on how damaged one is I believe one can escape in 3 to 12 months.
Thanks for asking,
LOL
John Taylor
Juju
4 years ago
Hi Virginia, Thanks for your kind words, I have been feeling very alone and each person that reaches out, gives me that little bit more support to lift my chin up. If you don’t believe in conspiracy theories then I’m afraid you haven’t been paying attention, books that undermine the official narrative disappear all the time. Perhaps though since his death simply nobody was making any profit from the book so its gone, no inheritor. After all profits before and above research into health is what got us all in this mess to begin with!
I believe John is trying to help people, I believe he enjoys solving this riddle, I need to believe that because the alternative reality of him loitering around this forum to exploit desperate frightened people who are hopelessly looking for answers is a special kind of evil.
I am however confused by how he thinks I need to ‘remove’ the cipro when the drug has a half-life of 4 hours and I haven’t taken it for 3 years. I’m also confused why he is still happy to take more cipro in the future, I would literally need to be choking on my last breathe before allowing that poison into my system ever again.
I am grateful for the heads up about Borax though as some people have said it has helped their arthritis and I am suffering in my ankles and spine but I have also read accounts from people who have said it has done nothing after a year of taking it. Other people think it is utterly ridiculous and an internet fad.
I am concentrating on the theory that Cipro has damaged my cells, it is a little bit more hopeless in the sense that I have an autoimmune disease and of course cancer can develop from too much damaged mitochondria, HOWEVER I also have my own theory that with the right diet and nutrition and sensible amounts of exercise I can fight back. My body is on MY side, it is working with me for survival not against me and I am focusing my energy and my mindset on the fight to replace those damaged cells with healthy ones. No more drugs or fluoride or anything other than the right nutrition and I cannot see it beating me. The power of the conscious mind is something else we are yet to fully understand.
My only fear is what damage it has caused in the years I have been ‘blissfully’ unaware and been living less responsibly than I shall be from this moment onward. Hence me returning home to get tested for cancers and diseases.
When I get the all clear I will make all my dreams come true. I will use all the negatives as positives and then I can only win. Starting with fibromyalgia.. everytime I feel lazy about accomplishing a task I am gong to blame it on the disease and instead of using it as an excuse to quit; I will use it as motivation to get up and go.
Tuula
4 years ago
Hi Virginia,
Thank you so much for saying what you did! I have been debating whether to see another ND. I have wasted a fortune on NDs to date. This really is hell, not being able to work for years, being in such physical torment and pain 24/7, and spending money in desperation and on very stupid things like a $500 Lyme disease test knowing this isn’t Lyme disease, but hoping something may come of it?, etc. I get tired of being recommended $$$ supplements based on what?, everyone prescribes differently, supplements that seem often to cause more hell or are simply incorrectly prescribed, supplements that have sent me to the ER on numerous occasions. Basically pills seem to make me more sick. Food is best but not the solution, maybe trying to find the right magnesium? or magnesiums? Which types did you find helpful? I think low tissue magnesium may be the reason why my gut doesn’t move well… it’s hydrated, etc., but 2 colonoscopies, etc. all is fine? No it’s not, but GI specialities say it is, don’t do motility tests, etc.. If food alone were the solution I would think I would have seen results by now. Since I do testing I see how ie: the supplements cause mitochondria damage (initially there was none prior to supplementation via OAT test), how I overdose 100x on NAC (via OAT test) had one ND recommend I get a fecal transplant, I had literally run out of hope, I did, big mistake, idiots who recommend and those who administer FMTs, they take no accountability, $$$ wasted to physically hurt me even more, I had no gut dysbiosis, now dysbiosis for 1.5 years via GI Map stool DNA tests by Diagnostic Solutions, before/after FMT… it’s all there… normal microbes, afterwards h pylori, newly introduced microbes known to cause auto-immune diseases, overgrowths of others, and then the new symptoms afterwards that won’t go away (I already had enough to deal with) how stupid was I going down this path thanks again to one ND, based once again, absolutely nothing.
The first time I took an epsom salt bath years ago, my legs became very painful, the mg malate does cause muscle pain/bruising…. I’ll test again, and different magnesiums… synthetic drugs are no good according to my genetics… I am still waiting for the bruising to heal from the epsom bath/mg chloride, and mg malate supplementation. I did purchase Mg glycinate and Mg + taurine. But maybe by then I’ll see another ND. I have tried saunas, just don’t have that much access to and interestingly when I did go, I freaked myself out… I developed livedo reticularis lines on my body during/afterwards, I have a history of taking saunas since childhood this ain’t normal, but then I know this just another sign of this toxicity. I can’t tolerate chlorella -it seizes up my gut whether 3 years ago or a few months ago. Activated charcoal… I won’t go near it again, even though I just took 1/4 tsp something happened in my liver, still not over it, has something to do with the segment 7 area, there’s a discomfort there now that has not gone away yet? My body tells me things. I went as far as 5 doses of the borax but once again I’m angry at myself, it seems possibly promising but… borax, how you take it and when is likely very important… ie: must be taken am, likely a few hours before food?… it did something to my stomach or pancreas when I took it pm?
I think this toxicity has much to do with the liver, and cleaning it is paramount. Though the coffee enemas (never colonics, nor herbal detox) did give me a bit of a breakthrough I have to be careful with that… I noticed, following the last one, that my blood tests changed in regards to my liver in a way that has never been recorded in 4.5 years… so until these tests are normal again, even that is on hold,… all I know is I am super toxic, seems even moving the toxins are dangerous, and so I try to be always aware, learn from my mistakes, proceed with caution, slowly. The reality is this has been 4.5 years and all I have met are people who are suppose to help, but who either do nothing, know nothing, or have caused me to hurt my body more by what in hindsight should have been completely preventable. I sometimes wonder where common sense has gone, sometimes including my own. Everything has side effects.
Learning from others here helps!
Dee
4 years ago
I learned a long time ago when I first got floxed (3 1/2 years ago) that taking small diluted doses of borax or boron flushed out fluoride!! You can even google clearing out fluoride and it will come up. I actually tried it but never stuck with it so as far as I know it is effective for clearing toxins etc out of your body. I would definitely start very low dose as John has described!
David
4 years ago
With the advent of vaccines I have a question. Is it safe for a floxie to be vaccinated? I had a Cipro resction that put me in wheelchair. After recovering a statin did the same thing. Then an antibiotic same thing. Exact same symptoms. I had taken these meds many times before. Since Cipro there are now dozens of drugs that flatten me. I’m told it’s mitochondrial and that since I’m in a depleted state many drugs will have same effect on me. I’m recovered but only because I take a huge regimen of magnesium.
Juju
4 years ago
Interesting points guys. I cannot stand the idea of ever taking any drug or medicine again, or allowing such heavy metals into my system. Whats the point in me brushing my teeth with non-fluoride toothpaste, swilling my mouth out with bottled water and spending fortunes on mineral waters, having a meticulous diet, tolerating headaches, just to let them give me a huge dose of god knows what. Also I feel like taking Cipro when I did; and all the information that has come out since; I have been the guinea pig once all ready and it didnt work out to well. Any one taking that vaccine is a guinea pig NO DOUBT! Since when were vaccines rolled out so quickly? Yes they appear safe NOW to the test volunteers but if its anything like I am experiencing now with Cipro they are not gonna know until 3 years down the line.
David
4 years ago
Yikes! I’d really like to know if we can take any COVID vaccine, but there doesn’t seem to be a consensus on whether it’s safe. If like Mike said the RNA action is similar to Cipro we are definitely screwed. Do flu vaccines work the sane way? I think we need to hear from a genetic specialist. The information available to us about any meds is so limited. I suspect it’s because the majority of users have little understanding of the chemical composition of vaccines. John what is your opinion ?
Andrea
4 years ago
Guys, after reading all this interesting posts about Boron and Borax, I’d like to join in the conversation. Some things are not clear : for what I understand Borax and Boron are two different things and Borax it’s not intended to be taken internally, and it seems to cause some trouble, while boron it’s sold as a mineral supplement. Any help to try to understand the difference between the two. The only time I’ve taken Boron it’s when I took the Remyte Solution which contains small amounts of boron, I belive 750 mcg, so very little, I may consider giving boron a try with an higher dose. but I’m too suspicious about borax.
Aga
4 years ago
Hi All,
My name is Aga and I’m new to this blog. I was floxed with Ciprofloxacin 13 months ago. I had stones on my gallbladder and after having multiple attacks my doctor suggested operation and gallbladder removal. The surgeon prescribed me Ciprofloxacin one week before the operation – 500mg twice a day during 7 days. 6 hours after taking the first pill I started to have burning feeling in small place on my right arm. It was just in one place and the sensation was very similar to mild sun burn. I read the information attached to the drug and saw it was causing phototoxicity. I live on the south of Spain, so the sun shines here almost 365 days in the year. I thought, I can carry on with the antibiotic, but do not expose myself to the sun. During the following two days and a half I was staying at home and continue taking the drug, but the burning feeling was not disappearing. So on the third day I decided to stop my medication. I took 5 pills in total. I informed about that to the surgeon, who told me it was probably allergic reaction I should not worry about. When I asked him if he prescribe me another antibiotic, he told me that it is not necessary (!!!).
Just few days before the operation I had another gallbladder attack. I went to the emergencies and they gave me the cocktail of painkillers. I took the same painkillers in many occasion in the past when having the attack, but that time it made me sick to the point that the following day I was not able to leave the bed. The day after I was feeling better, but in addition to burning feeling in my arm (which didn’t disappear after stopping taking the pills) I started to feel pain in my Achilles tendon in my right leg and pain in my right knee. Light bulb went off in my head! I read the information attached to the Ciprofloxacin again and I panicked. I already knew that pain was caused by that medicine, but I though, I took just 5 pills, so should not be so bad, the pain will disappear.
The day of the operation came, I warn anaesthetist that I had adverse reaction to Ciprofloxacin and asked him, not to give me any fluoroquinolone during the operation. The operation went fine and in 1 day I was at home. I was feeling very well and decided not to take any painkillers prescribed by the surgeon. I was just doing myself the heparin injections for the next 10 days. The burning sensation, pain in the tendon and knee disappeared and in first moment I thought that all that was just in my head and caused by my hypochondria.
Six weeks after stopping taking the pills the pain in the tendon and knee came back and in addition the burning sensation, but that time my whole body was burning. I felt it all over the place, my arms, my legs, my back, my armpits, even my genital area. The following days and weeks more symptoms appeared:
– Muscle pain in my arms and legs. I started having muscle cramps in my legs during the nights which were causing lot of pain.
– Pain in my tendons in both arms.
– Pins and needles in my legs.
I went to see internist, suggesting the adverse effects of Ciprofloxacin, but she said that it’s weird, because the medicine was no longer in my body after so long time and prescribed me Ibuprofen for the tendinitis.
I went to see a neurologist and told him about my symptoms and Ciprofloxacin. He seemed to be more receptive and prescribed me Vit. E, CoQ10 and omega 3 (EPA y DHA).
I reviewed my medical history and found out that I already took Ciprofloxacin (500mg twice a day during 7 days) in October 2014 for urinary tract infection – exactly 5 years earlier. I didn’t have any adverse reaction then.
I started looking for information in internet and found that blog. I read the stories and made a list of the supplements that were helping to others: Vit. C, Vit. D, Vit. E, Zinc, Magnesium, Magnesium oil, Magnesium Epson salts, CoQ10, PQQ, Resveratrol, Probiotics, Omega 3. I tried also supplement of glucosamine, but it was causing me diarrhoea, so I quit it.
With the time muscle pain in my arms, legs and nightly muscle cramps totally disappeared. The other symptoms started being barely noticeable – they were disappearing and appearing again, but not as strong as at the beginning.
All of that time I was also struggling to recover from the operation as I had internal pains in the zone of my operation scars. In the middle of February the surgeon suggested abdominal ultrasound which didn’t show anything. The months were passing by and I was not feeling better, so I was made abdominal magnetic resonance which again didn’t show anything. All I was told was it is a muscle problem that will go away with the time, it just takes me longer to recover from the operation that to other people. In June I started to be desperate and I decided to quit all the supplements I was taking that time. During the summer I started swimming and exercise helped me to eventually recover from the post operation pain. I passed very good summer.
Unfortunately in October I suffered the worst set back since I took that medicine last year. All symptoms came back and with force. Additional symptoms also appeared – I have pain in my bones, especially in my hand and feet bones including fingers. I have pains in my elbows and both knees. I’ve resumed taking the supplements I quit in June. I’m also evaluating usage of R-Lipoic Acid, Selenium and Manganese supplements.
Meantime I wanted to share with you very interesting article published by polish scientist “Treatment of the Fluoroquinolone-Associated Disability: The Pathobiochemical Implications”. It was published in September 2017, so probably some of you already has read it.
The article reviews the pathobiochemical properties of fluoroquinolones, hints the directions for further research, and reviews the research concerning the proposed treatment.
“Based on the analysis of literature, the main directions of possible effective treatment of FQAD are proposed: (a) reduction of the oxidative stress, (b) restoring reduced mitochondrion potential ΔΨm, (c) supplementation of uni- and bivalent cations that are chelated by FQs and probably ineffectively transported to the cell (caution must be paid to Fe and Cu because they may generate Fenton reaction), (d) stimulating the mitochondrial proliferation, (e) removing FQs permanently accumulated in the cells (if this phenomenon takes place), and (f) regulating the disturbed gene expression and enzyme activity.”
That article does not answers all the questions, but at least scientists began to investigate and put parts of the puzzle together. Human body is complex, very complex, there is no doubt. However there is a hope in the science and scientist.
Juju
4 years ago
John,
Do you take borax supplement or are you using the regular ’20 mule’??
Andrea
4 years ago
Virginia, I’ve read you’ve taken boron for about two years, did you feel any difference from it? Thank you
This is scary. They are using fluroquinolones on some covid patients. Also there are 10 companies try to get their covid vaccine out first ignoring the safety measures.
Bob
4 years ago
Why do you think the magnesium is causing your pain in lower legs. I don’t take a lot of magnesium and I have the same thing. Floxed over 7 years ago.
Don M
4 years ago
Bob…. Who are you asking about painful legs?
Juju
4 years ago
I have decided to enter a 22 day fast. I bought all these supplements for mitochondria repair and I am all set to change to a keto / mito diet, however I feel like before I embark on my battle of the good vs bad mitochondria and whilst the tendonopothies in my shoulders and Achilles are keeping me out the gym anyway I should fast. Close my machine down and let it search out and destroy the damaged cells whilst also hopefully finding anything in there that shouldnt be and detox it OUT. If the theory i didnt metabolise the cipro correctly is true then it should be an opportunity to find it and flush it, if the postulation that its mitochondria damage is to be believed then once again fasting is the best way to target bad cells. Win – Win. Also im so stressed right now about everything im eating and running out of money that 22 days of not thinking about it and not spending eliminates that stress. To be honest researching what cipro does to the body has STRESSED me out the most and that stress has exacerbated all my symptoms and im struggling to differentiate between what is stress related and what is floxie related. I appreciate the info on this site and others but I have become much worse since reading it.
Aga
4 years ago
Hi guys,
How are you doing? I have a question if any of you tried milk thistle supplement to detox the liver?
Thanks, Aga
Juju
4 years ago
Hi Andrea,
Thanks for taking the time to give me advice. I am well aware that as a floxie; nutrient deficiencies are the root cause of most of our problems, therefore reducing my nutrients to nothing sounds like a terrible idea, however fasting stimulates autophagy!: Where the body begins to clean out the old, unwanted, and unneeded cellular material, as well as fixing and recycling damaged parts.
So I am wondering how on earth this antibiotic can still be effecting me 6 years later and I am reading it causes mitochondria damage.. Seems logical to me that to heal I need to concentrate on reversing this damage. Voila: Autophagy.
I have took your advice on board about the length of the fast and thank you for giving me a steady head. After all the reason why my symptoms flared up so badly again was due to returning to exercising like I did when I was 22 years old, with no gradual build up just overtraining right off the bat. (I am also grateful for the experience as the resulting tendon problems made me research about cipro and what lasting damage can occur – to my initial horror)
It is life changing.. but for me it is the perfect excuse to be clean as a whistle healthy!! No drugs, no booze, no sugar and only organic vegetables, nuts seeds etc, good fats and clean water and strict supplements that detox the body. Its what I also wanted but lacked the motivation for.
Autophagy can be achieved by intermittent fasting which is what I do most of the time anyway and a long term fast can be imitated by being in ketosis, which i will be striving to be in as often as possible by eliminating gluten and non complex carbs. So there are other options for healing my cells and prolonging life.
I am currently 48 hours into my fast drinking only water – laced with liquid magnesium and sodium. I had fasciculation in my abdomen last night but its has stopped now, I was imagining it was my intestines pumping out any lingering cipro ( read an article from a dr who had cipro poisonng and he reckoned it makes a cavity in the intestines where t is stored) I think it can be explained by my body reacting to lack of nutrients but I am focusng the power of my mind on healing so i am going with my theory I cleaning and renewing my body!
Many experts agree that the autophagy process initiates in humans after 18-20 hours of fasting, with maximal benefits occurring once the 48–72 hour mark has been reached.
My initial aim was begin fasting wednesday night, Thursday will feel like a normal intermittent fasting day then get through friday as one unpleasant day in work then its weekend! Judge on Sunday whether to break fast for returning to work on monday. Now I think I may end it at the 72 hour mark (saturday night) I don’t want to over do it like you say and I have had no tests done so any longer is irresponsible.
Oh and the borax!! Is a miracle!! My ankles and achilles are so much better!!! I can sleep without a pillow under them again!
Orf, so the supplements you listed help you the most with the tendon pain
Magnesium seemed to help the most- the supplements I listed are what I took (take) I also use Magnesium oil which seems to help a lot got the info here. Just don’t give up hope- I had read that 30 days was the time frame to improve it took me 100 to get functional so I was worried- but I did improve. Others will to. Not sure if I will recover 100 percent but I am grateful for what I have- thank God every day for it. Quin poisoning is a awful experience. You can’t believe it happened, others don’t believe you, Md’s no help etc. But- Do not give up! you will get better, you will improve. Time heals. Keep punching.
I made some early mistakes- took over the counter pain meds then found out they were counter productive and can make it worse. Drank some coffee, to early exercise- trying to rehab etc. Those things delayed improvement, be aware, try to get the word out to others warn them. Thanks again for the info and people on this website!
God bless you and heal you (us) all.
Orf.
Having just left 2 comments about the late Dr. Jay Cohen’s book “How We Can Halt the Cipro and Levaquin Catastrophe”, I tried to buy a copy online. It is completely unavailable in any form. I must have checked a dozen sites at least including Amazon and ebay. The copy I tried to download or read online was blocked due to malware on it. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but it seems suspicious to me that there seem to be no copies left of this book anywhere in the world and no way at all to access the book. Other, far older and rarer books with similar limited editions are readily available, but not this title. Could it be that Bayer and other drugs companies that make FQs bought up all the remaining copies after Dr. Cohen died and shredded them? They have every interest to prevent knowledge of the dangers of FQs being spread further. Is it just me that thinks this? Do any of you know where I can get a hard copy? I have a copy on my Kindle, luckily, but would like a hard copy.
Hi Virginia,
I see that I have fallen quite far behind on this blog somehow. MY background is a BS in chemical engineering. Various short courses in Chemistry. When my Dad got Parkinson’s I taught him organic chemistry as relates to Parkinson’s. He became quite good at and discussed treatments with his doctor. So they worked together and Dad’s .life was extended to 26 years compared to the original diagnosis of t years. I only helped for the first 6 months and then they were a good enough team by themselves and Ieft me in the dust.
My work involved chemistry, so I have learned from others with advanced degrees. I was a chemical customer so I would ask for certain properties and discuss how to achieve them.Then there would be trials and we’d learn what worked and what didn’t. Lots of chemical mechanistic thinking. All the advances in chemical additives and base properties in my industry came from my lab for the 15 years while I was there. Very little has advanced in the following 25 years or so. You could say I am no slouch.
I also advocated and refined statistical techniques for research and manufacturing. I used these techniques to study what is going on inside my body. One learns a lot more this way than what the medical profession does with one-thing-at-a-time scientific experiments. The problem with scientific experiments is they reinforce what you believe to start. My techniques force one to face things you don’t know. I didn’t invent these techniques, I just use them and modify the overall approach to be practical.
I am not all that smart but I cheat when I get stuck. God knows the answer, I just have to listen. I feel I am just His tool to get this information out. I am not a median. I just get ideas to evaluate. I can’t be sure I heard correctly so I have to test. Through my career I have extended knowledge past what is in the book. I am research with one very knowledgeable partner.
Well, I’d allow you to say I do good work, but it is important to listen to others. When I published, it was the best I could do. But I sought other input with a questionnaire. The blog has brought important new ideas that improve the recovery protocol.
Together we are going to defeat this toxicity and I believe in short order. It took me three years to learn what I know and free myself from being a Floxie. I don’t know how long it will take to get a fully functional body back. Depending on how damaged one is I believe one can escape in 3 to 12 months.
Thanks for asking,
LOL
John Taylor
Hi Virginia, Thanks for your kind words, I have been feeling very alone and each person that reaches out, gives me that little bit more support to lift my chin up. If you don’t believe in conspiracy theories then I’m afraid you haven’t been paying attention, books that undermine the official narrative disappear all the time. Perhaps though since his death simply nobody was making any profit from the book so its gone, no inheritor. After all profits before and above research into health is what got us all in this mess to begin with!
I believe John is trying to help people, I believe he enjoys solving this riddle, I need to believe that because the alternative reality of him loitering around this forum to exploit desperate frightened people who are hopelessly looking for answers is a special kind of evil.
I am however confused by how he thinks I need to ‘remove’ the cipro when the drug has a half-life of 4 hours and I haven’t taken it for 3 years. I’m also confused why he is still happy to take more cipro in the future, I would literally need to be choking on my last breathe before allowing that poison into my system ever again.
I am grateful for the heads up about Borax though as some people have said it has helped their arthritis and I am suffering in my ankles and spine but I have also read accounts from people who have said it has done nothing after a year of taking it. Other people think it is utterly ridiculous and an internet fad.
I am concentrating on the theory that Cipro has damaged my cells, it is a little bit more hopeless in the sense that I have an autoimmune disease and of course cancer can develop from too much damaged mitochondria, HOWEVER I also have my own theory that with the right diet and nutrition and sensible amounts of exercise I can fight back. My body is on MY side, it is working with me for survival not against me and I am focusing my energy and my mindset on the fight to replace those damaged cells with healthy ones. No more drugs or fluoride or anything other than the right nutrition and I cannot see it beating me. The power of the conscious mind is something else we are yet to fully understand.
My only fear is what damage it has caused in the years I have been ‘blissfully’ unaware and been living less responsibly than I shall be from this moment onward. Hence me returning home to get tested for cancers and diseases.
When I get the all clear I will make all my dreams come true. I will use all the negatives as positives and then I can only win. Starting with fibromyalgia.. everytime I feel lazy about accomplishing a task I am gong to blame it on the disease and instead of using it as an excuse to quit; I will use it as motivation to get up and go.
Hi Virginia,
Thank you so much for saying what you did! I have been debating whether to see another ND. I have wasted a fortune on NDs to date. This really is hell, not being able to work for years, being in such physical torment and pain 24/7, and spending money in desperation and on very stupid things like a $500 Lyme disease test knowing this isn’t Lyme disease, but hoping something may come of it?, etc. I get tired of being recommended $$$ supplements based on what?, everyone prescribes differently, supplements that seem often to cause more hell or are simply incorrectly prescribed, supplements that have sent me to the ER on numerous occasions. Basically pills seem to make me more sick. Food is best but not the solution, maybe trying to find the right magnesium? or magnesiums? Which types did you find helpful? I think low tissue magnesium may be the reason why my gut doesn’t move well… it’s hydrated, etc., but 2 colonoscopies, etc. all is fine? No it’s not, but GI specialities say it is, don’t do motility tests, etc.. If food alone were the solution I would think I would have seen results by now. Since I do testing I see how ie: the supplements cause mitochondria damage (initially there was none prior to supplementation via OAT test), how I overdose 100x on NAC (via OAT test) had one ND recommend I get a fecal transplant, I had literally run out of hope, I did, big mistake, idiots who recommend and those who administer FMTs, they take no accountability, $$$ wasted to physically hurt me even more, I had no gut dysbiosis, now dysbiosis for 1.5 years via GI Map stool DNA tests by Diagnostic Solutions, before/after FMT… it’s all there… normal microbes, afterwards h pylori, newly introduced microbes known to cause auto-immune diseases, overgrowths of others, and then the new symptoms afterwards that won’t go away (I already had enough to deal with) how stupid was I going down this path thanks again to one ND, based once again, absolutely nothing.
The first time I took an epsom salt bath years ago, my legs became very painful, the mg malate does cause muscle pain/bruising…. I’ll test again, and different magnesiums… synthetic drugs are no good according to my genetics… I am still waiting for the bruising to heal from the epsom bath/mg chloride, and mg malate supplementation. I did purchase Mg glycinate and Mg + taurine. But maybe by then I’ll see another ND. I have tried saunas, just don’t have that much access to and interestingly when I did go, I freaked myself out… I developed livedo reticularis lines on my body during/afterwards, I have a history of taking saunas since childhood this ain’t normal, but then I know this just another sign of this toxicity. I can’t tolerate chlorella -it seizes up my gut whether 3 years ago or a few months ago. Activated charcoal… I won’t go near it again, even though I just took 1/4 tsp something happened in my liver, still not over it, has something to do with the segment 7 area, there’s a discomfort there now that has not gone away yet? My body tells me things. I went as far as 5 doses of the borax but once again I’m angry at myself, it seems possibly promising but… borax, how you take it and when is likely very important… ie: must be taken am, likely a few hours before food?… it did something to my stomach or pancreas when I took it pm?
I think this toxicity has much to do with the liver, and cleaning it is paramount. Though the coffee enemas (never colonics, nor herbal detox) did give me a bit of a breakthrough I have to be careful with that… I noticed, following the last one, that my blood tests changed in regards to my liver in a way that has never been recorded in 4.5 years… so until these tests are normal again, even that is on hold,… all I know is I am super toxic, seems even moving the toxins are dangerous, and so I try to be always aware, learn from my mistakes, proceed with caution, slowly. The reality is this has been 4.5 years and all I have met are people who are suppose to help, but who either do nothing, know nothing, or have caused me to hurt my body more by what in hindsight should have been completely preventable. I sometimes wonder where common sense has gone, sometimes including my own. Everything has side effects.
Learning from others here helps!
I learned a long time ago when I first got floxed (3 1/2 years ago) that taking small diluted doses of borax or boron flushed out fluoride!! You can even google clearing out fluoride and it will come up. I actually tried it but never stuck with it so as far as I know it is effective for clearing toxins etc out of your body. I would definitely start very low dose as John has described!
With the advent of vaccines I have a question. Is it safe for a floxie to be vaccinated? I had a Cipro resction that put me in wheelchair. After recovering a statin did the same thing. Then an antibiotic same thing. Exact same symptoms. I had taken these meds many times before. Since Cipro there are now dozens of drugs that flatten me. I’m told it’s mitochondrial and that since I’m in a depleted state many drugs will have same effect on me. I’m recovered but only because I take a huge regimen of magnesium.
Interesting points guys. I cannot stand the idea of ever taking any drug or medicine again, or allowing such heavy metals into my system. Whats the point in me brushing my teeth with non-fluoride toothpaste, swilling my mouth out with bottled water and spending fortunes on mineral waters, having a meticulous diet, tolerating headaches, just to let them give me a huge dose of god knows what. Also I feel like taking Cipro when I did; and all the information that has come out since; I have been the guinea pig once all ready and it didnt work out to well. Any one taking that vaccine is a guinea pig NO DOUBT! Since when were vaccines rolled out so quickly? Yes they appear safe NOW to the test volunteers but if its anything like I am experiencing now with Cipro they are not gonna know until 3 years down the line.
Yikes! I’d really like to know if we can take any COVID vaccine, but there doesn’t seem to be a consensus on whether it’s safe. If like Mike said the RNA action is similar to Cipro we are definitely screwed. Do flu vaccines work the sane way? I think we need to hear from a genetic specialist. The information available to us about any meds is so limited. I suspect it’s because the majority of users have little understanding of the chemical composition of vaccines. John what is your opinion ?
Guys, after reading all this interesting posts about Boron and Borax, I’d like to join in the conversation. Some things are not clear : for what I understand Borax and Boron are two different things and Borax it’s not intended to be taken internally, and it seems to cause some trouble, while boron it’s sold as a mineral supplement. Any help to try to understand the difference between the two. The only time I’ve taken Boron it’s when I took the Remyte Solution which contains small amounts of boron, I belive 750 mcg, so very little, I may consider giving boron a try with an higher dose. but I’m too suspicious about borax.
Hi All,
My name is Aga and I’m new to this blog. I was floxed with Ciprofloxacin 13 months ago. I had stones on my gallbladder and after having multiple attacks my doctor suggested operation and gallbladder removal. The surgeon prescribed me Ciprofloxacin one week before the operation – 500mg twice a day during 7 days. 6 hours after taking the first pill I started to have burning feeling in small place on my right arm. It was just in one place and the sensation was very similar to mild sun burn. I read the information attached to the drug and saw it was causing phototoxicity. I live on the south of Spain, so the sun shines here almost 365 days in the year. I thought, I can carry on with the antibiotic, but do not expose myself to the sun. During the following two days and a half I was staying at home and continue taking the drug, but the burning feeling was not disappearing. So on the third day I decided to stop my medication. I took 5 pills in total. I informed about that to the surgeon, who told me it was probably allergic reaction I should not worry about. When I asked him if he prescribe me another antibiotic, he told me that it is not necessary (!!!).
Just few days before the operation I had another gallbladder attack. I went to the emergencies and they gave me the cocktail of painkillers. I took the same painkillers in many occasion in the past when having the attack, but that time it made me sick to the point that the following day I was not able to leave the bed. The day after I was feeling better, but in addition to burning feeling in my arm (which didn’t disappear after stopping taking the pills) I started to feel pain in my Achilles tendon in my right leg and pain in my right knee. Light bulb went off in my head! I read the information attached to the Ciprofloxacin again and I panicked. I already knew that pain was caused by that medicine, but I though, I took just 5 pills, so should not be so bad, the pain will disappear.
The day of the operation came, I warn anaesthetist that I had adverse reaction to Ciprofloxacin and asked him, not to give me any fluoroquinolone during the operation. The operation went fine and in 1 day I was at home. I was feeling very well and decided not to take any painkillers prescribed by the surgeon. I was just doing myself the heparin injections for the next 10 days. The burning sensation, pain in the tendon and knee disappeared and in first moment I thought that all that was just in my head and caused by my hypochondria.
Six weeks after stopping taking the pills the pain in the tendon and knee came back and in addition the burning sensation, but that time my whole body was burning. I felt it all over the place, my arms, my legs, my back, my armpits, even my genital area. The following days and weeks more symptoms appeared:
– Muscle pain in my arms and legs. I started having muscle cramps in my legs during the nights which were causing lot of pain.
– Pain in my tendons in both arms.
– Pins and needles in my legs.
I went to see internist, suggesting the adverse effects of Ciprofloxacin, but she said that it’s weird, because the medicine was no longer in my body after so long time and prescribed me Ibuprofen for the tendinitis.
I went to see a neurologist and told him about my symptoms and Ciprofloxacin. He seemed to be more receptive and prescribed me Vit. E, CoQ10 and omega 3 (EPA y DHA).
I reviewed my medical history and found out that I already took Ciprofloxacin (500mg twice a day during 7 days) in October 2014 for urinary tract infection – exactly 5 years earlier. I didn’t have any adverse reaction then.
I started looking for information in internet and found that blog. I read the stories and made a list of the supplements that were helping to others: Vit. C, Vit. D, Vit. E, Zinc, Magnesium, Magnesium oil, Magnesium Epson salts, CoQ10, PQQ, Resveratrol, Probiotics, Omega 3. I tried also supplement of glucosamine, but it was causing me diarrhoea, so I quit it.
With the time muscle pain in my arms, legs and nightly muscle cramps totally disappeared. The other symptoms started being barely noticeable – they were disappearing and appearing again, but not as strong as at the beginning.
All of that time I was also struggling to recover from the operation as I had internal pains in the zone of my operation scars. In the middle of February the surgeon suggested abdominal ultrasound which didn’t show anything. The months were passing by and I was not feeling better, so I was made abdominal magnetic resonance which again didn’t show anything. All I was told was it is a muscle problem that will go away with the time, it just takes me longer to recover from the operation that to other people. In June I started to be desperate and I decided to quit all the supplements I was taking that time. During the summer I started swimming and exercise helped me to eventually recover from the post operation pain. I passed very good summer.
Unfortunately in October I suffered the worst set back since I took that medicine last year. All symptoms came back and with force. Additional symptoms also appeared – I have pain in my bones, especially in my hand and feet bones including fingers. I have pains in my elbows and both knees. I’ve resumed taking the supplements I quit in June. I’m also evaluating usage of R-Lipoic Acid, Selenium and Manganese supplements.
Meantime I wanted to share with you very interesting article published by polish scientist “Treatment of the Fluoroquinolone-Associated Disability: The Pathobiochemical Implications”. It was published in September 2017, so probably some of you already has read it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5632915/#B79
The article reviews the pathobiochemical properties of fluoroquinolones, hints the directions for further research, and reviews the research concerning the proposed treatment.
“Based on the analysis of literature, the main directions of possible effective treatment of FQAD are proposed: (a) reduction of the oxidative stress, (b) restoring reduced mitochondrion potential ΔΨm, (c) supplementation of uni- and bivalent cations that are chelated by FQs and probably ineffectively transported to the cell (caution must be paid to Fe and Cu because they may generate Fenton reaction), (d) stimulating the mitochondrial proliferation, (e) removing FQs permanently accumulated in the cells (if this phenomenon takes place), and (f) regulating the disturbed gene expression and enzyme activity.”
That article does not answers all the questions, but at least scientists began to investigate and put parts of the puzzle together. Human body is complex, very complex, there is no doubt. However there is a hope in the science and scientist.
John,
Do you take borax supplement or are you using the regular ’20 mule’??
Virginia, I’ve read you’ve taken boron for about two years, did you feel any difference from it? Thank you
https://nobleresearch.org/Doi/10.14312/2052-4994.2020-3
This is scary. They are using fluroquinolones on some covid patients. Also there are 10 companies try to get their covid vaccine out first ignoring the safety measures.
Why do you think the magnesium is causing your pain in lower legs. I don’t take a lot of magnesium and I have the same thing. Floxed over 7 years ago.
Bob…. Who are you asking about painful legs?
I have decided to enter a 22 day fast. I bought all these supplements for mitochondria repair and I am all set to change to a keto / mito diet, however I feel like before I embark on my battle of the good vs bad mitochondria and whilst the tendonopothies in my shoulders and Achilles are keeping me out the gym anyway I should fast. Close my machine down and let it search out and destroy the damaged cells whilst also hopefully finding anything in there that shouldnt be and detox it OUT. If the theory i didnt metabolise the cipro correctly is true then it should be an opportunity to find it and flush it, if the postulation that its mitochondria damage is to be believed then once again fasting is the best way to target bad cells. Win – Win. Also im so stressed right now about everything im eating and running out of money that 22 days of not thinking about it and not spending eliminates that stress. To be honest researching what cipro does to the body has STRESSED me out the most and that stress has exacerbated all my symptoms and im struggling to differentiate between what is stress related and what is floxie related. I appreciate the info on this site and others but I have become much worse since reading it.
Hi guys,
How are you doing? I have a question if any of you tried milk thistle supplement to detox the liver?
Thanks, Aga
Hi Andrea,
Thanks for taking the time to give me advice. I am well aware that as a floxie; nutrient deficiencies are the root cause of most of our problems, therefore reducing my nutrients to nothing sounds like a terrible idea, however fasting stimulates autophagy!: Where the body begins to clean out the old, unwanted, and unneeded cellular material, as well as fixing and recycling damaged parts.
So I am wondering how on earth this antibiotic can still be effecting me 6 years later and I am reading it causes mitochondria damage.. Seems logical to me that to heal I need to concentrate on reversing this damage. Voila: Autophagy.
I have took your advice on board about the length of the fast and thank you for giving me a steady head. After all the reason why my symptoms flared up so badly again was due to returning to exercising like I did when I was 22 years old, with no gradual build up just overtraining right off the bat. (I am also grateful for the experience as the resulting tendon problems made me research about cipro and what lasting damage can occur – to my initial horror)
It is life changing.. but for me it is the perfect excuse to be clean as a whistle healthy!! No drugs, no booze, no sugar and only organic vegetables, nuts seeds etc, good fats and clean water and strict supplements that detox the body. Its what I also wanted but lacked the motivation for.
Autophagy can be achieved by intermittent fasting which is what I do most of the time anyway and a long term fast can be imitated by being in ketosis, which i will be striving to be in as often as possible by eliminating gluten and non complex carbs. So there are other options for healing my cells and prolonging life.
I am currently 48 hours into my fast drinking only water – laced with liquid magnesium and sodium. I had fasciculation in my abdomen last night but its has stopped now, I was imagining it was my intestines pumping out any lingering cipro ( read an article from a dr who had cipro poisonng and he reckoned it makes a cavity in the intestines where t is stored) I think it can be explained by my body reacting to lack of nutrients but I am focusng the power of my mind on healing so i am going with my theory I cleaning and renewing my body!
Many experts agree that the autophagy process initiates in humans after 18-20 hours of fasting, with maximal benefits occurring once the 48–72 hour mark has been reached.
My initial aim was begin fasting wednesday night, Thursday will feel like a normal intermittent fasting day then get through friday as one unpleasant day in work then its weekend! Judge on Sunday whether to break fast for returning to work on monday. Now I think I may end it at the 72 hour mark (saturday night) I don’t want to over do it like you say and I have had no tests done so any longer is irresponsible.
Oh and the borax!! Is a miracle!! My ankles and achilles are so much better!!! I can sleep without a pillow under them again!
Next up is tendon rehab!
Stay positive everyone!