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Ma4rk ans anyone else tp whom I owe ananswer – am having a bad bout of hypotension, need to be hund upside down fpr a few days, will answer when blood returns to foggy brain. It’s from exhaustion.
Daniela
9 years ago
The dr’s should admit it’s not autoimmune, but it’s cipro damage and it takes 1 or more years to heal.
To everyone who is just starting, it does get better — IF you don’t get refloxed. Refloxing is the hard part.
richard
9 years ago
dest did yiu have muscle spasms or vision issues go away now your better
If any of you get the 23andme test and have a medical professional walk you through the data. It opens your eyes. We all have genetic predispositions in our dna for things. Through a Flouroquinolone in your body and it just makes you get them. It reminds me of radiation poisoning, Your fine take a poison and your sick.
jimmy
9 years ago
hi Lisa and everyone, I went to the dentist this week to have an amalgam removed and the first part of a crown and was given mepivicaine or carbocaine as it’s also called. i had a bad reaction to it, became weak, dizzy and even a little paranoid and still am dizzy and feeling a little brain foggy two days later. I realized last night that mepivicaine has two carboxic acid molecules in it. 🙁 so now i’m feeling like i’ve refloxed myself. i had asked for anything except lidocaine since it has epinepherine and other floxies have suggested staying away from that. i’m now told i’ll have to have another injection of numbing agent the next time I go to actually have the crown put on as i have a temporary in now. can anyone suggest a numbing agent i could use without a carboxic acid molecule? has anyone tried lidocaine post flox and care to share their experience? anyone tried mepivocaine and want to share their experience? Lisa, do you have an answer to this? i’m sure people have had dental work done post flox and have had to use numbing agent…thoughts anyone?
Hi Tricia- I am Erin as in “Erin’s Story”. I requested my story be removed after I had a severe reaction to commercial meat that was packaged as antibiotic free. I requested that my story be taken down because, even though I was no longer disabled after 6 months on SCD, all it took was 2 slices of commercial meat to devastate my gut and set me back to the beginning. It was 4 months later that I began using my essential oils to repair and heal my gut. This has been a remarkable recovery for me as I am now 100% fully functional and I am healthier than I have been since I was in my teens. My gut is healed, I have gained 25 pounds, no PN, no full mito function again, sleep is normal, hair skin back to being normal, thyroid function perfect, no musculoskeletal, etc. I am a fully recovered, fully functional person and healthier than I was before my first floxing a decade ago. I now work FULL time, commute 2 hours a day, I live a completely normal life. I keep a pretty low profile on FB because I want to. I am updating my recovery website as we speak so you are welcome to visit me there. It will be active later today. I wish you health and healing. Feel free to message me if you have questions. http://fluoroquinolonevictimsadvocacynetwork.webs.com/ https://www.facebook.com/erin.spanglerwilson
Peter
9 years ago
Well, this is my fourth doctor in less than two weeks, including in the ER now. How a simple cold turned into this i don’t know. They are beginning to lean away from strep and are now recommending i return to the ENT to test some clear liquid filled spots in my throat. I was just there on Thursday…..go figure they popped up the next day. They look a lot like early throat cancer unfortunately, so I’m dreading my return visit.
Suddenly being floxed is the least of my problems….a cure? Maybe not.
rene
9 years ago
For those that are newbies and concerned with the exaggerated sensitivities to various drugs,….Here is some information that will help illuminate why. These sensitivities can improve but to what degree is very individual and likely for an extended period of time beyond 2 years easily.
Quinolones “inhibi”t the metabolism of CYP1A2 and CYP3A4 substrates, with the consequence that these substrates reach toxic or inadequately high concentrations with unwanted effects. The toxicity typically encountered is identical to what would be seen from an overdose of the substrate drug. Some of these unwanted effects are actually considered interaction between drugs because one drug (the fluoroquinolone) impedes the normal acting of another drug (the substrate with which the quinolone interacts). In summary, enzyme inhibitors reduce the activity of a specific cytochrome P450 isoform, resulting in an accumulation of the substrate drug.
I myself already have a genetic mutation in exactly this spot so I never had a chance to tolerate a drug that would further inhibit CYP1A2….So the 1st tablet set off an autoimmune response, and burning along my limbs after the ingestion of the 3rd tablet and last tablet ingested.
As new drugs reach the marketplace and patients take an increasing number and variety of pharmaceutical agents for a host of medical conditions, the potential for serious drug interactions continues to grow. Ensuring that the medical histories of the floxed persons are up to date and acquiring knowledge of the various substrates, inducers and inhibitors of the CYP450 system will help practitioners avoid potentially serious adverse drug interactions, in other words, will help practitioners avoid causing new toxicities to floxed persons.
And for the floxed person, it is vital to know that his/her liver does not transform drugs, as it should do, so he/she must adopt the measures towards limiting or carefully studying the use of all substrates of the enzymes forced to malfunction by the fluoroquinolones. The human CYP3A4 isoform is the most abundant cytochrome family expressed in the human liver and intestine, and thus is involved in the metabolism of a greater number of drugs and a greater proportion of diverse drug-drug interactions than are other CYP isoforms.
God Bless,
Rene
rene
9 years ago
I would like to add because we are suffering the effect of NEURO TOXICITY the eyes can also be effected. Exposure to neurotoxins can cause dizziness, nausea, loss of motor control, paralysis, difficulty with vision, seizures…etc.
The analogy of “removing a nasty stain in fabric”……slowly lifted out. In the long process of a incremental slow detoxification of the cells, neurons, CNS, soft tissue…..there also needs to be an exit from the body. Sometimes we feel worse after experiencing a period of improvement……My understanding is that is the time that the lymphatic system and other systems, liver, kidneys, pancreas, are exposed from newly dislodged toxicity now needing to be neutralized and expelled. Dreadful as it may feel, seems appropriate, to help ourselves with assistive measures. Infrared Saunas, magnesium baths, acupuncture. We do not want reabsorption.
Something to consider, is BENTONITE CLAY. I have used a table spoon of this at bed time to help assist in preventing reabsorption. Bentonite Clay is one of the most effective natural intestinal detoxifying agents available and has been recognized as such for centuries by native peoples around the world. I bought mine at health food store, brand “Yerba Prima” . I wont go into all the science, you can look into it, but it is amazing stuff and great simple aid. Bentonite clay adsorbs toxins (heavy metals, free radicals, pesticides), taking them in the way a sponge mops up.
Do not take Bentonite Clay around the time of taking your supplements.
rene
9 years ago
I would like to add that:
Neurological issues and Peripheral Neuropathy issues are sometimes helped with R+Lipoic Acid and Phosphatidyl Serine. Lipoic Acid detoxifies neuro-toxins and Phosphatidyl Serine helps heal the nerves. I would assume this would be helpful anywhere in the body because They pass the BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER as do Cipro.
MAGNESIUM CHLORIDE the form found in MAGNESIUM OIL SPRAY for Trans dermal application, encounters toxins, pathogens, or heavy metal deposits that have lodged themselves in skin tissue. The magnesium chloride solution — which tests have shown contain virtually no toxins or impurities — would cause no discomfort if applied to tissue areas that have “no toxin or heavy metal buildup” . Since magnesium works in ionic form, entering inside each cell, it is crucial that a sufficient supply of magnesium ions are available.
When they enter through the skin, they will encounter toxins where they reside. Sensations experienced can range from mild itching to wildly painful. If you know what’s happening, then you won’t put the magnesium down and forget about it. You can dilute it and reapply, or add it to bath water or a foot bath. You can also apply it to another part of the body that doesn’t react as dramatically.
Once the magnesium has entered the body, it will be carried to the place of greatest need, where the greatest benefit can be realized. As your levels get to normal — whatever that is for you — any discomfort that you may have experienced, will abate. All you need to know is that it’s critical to the restoration and maintenance of your health.
This was something that has benefited me throughout my recovery. The first month into the 3rd year. Emphasis was daily 2x’s per day for the first 2 years….
rene
9 years ago
For Any of You who have twitching, and anxiety this is worth considering, it helped me.
TAURINE
Taurine is an amino acid that is present at significant levels in the CNS and is positive modulator of GABA that does not have any adverse side-effects. Taurine also potentiates glycine – the inhibitory neurotransmitter in the spinal cord.
The role of taurine as an inhibitory amino acid has been confirmed in many studies. Not surprisingly, brain tissue and cardiac tissue, which are susceptible to high levels of neurotransmitter stimulation, maintain high levels of taurine. Taurine has been shown to prevent the neuronal damage that can occur when there is an exposure to increased levels of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate. Over stimulation by excitatory neurotransmitters is the primary cause of neuron death in ischemic stroke. Taurine has been found to significantly reduce neuron death caused by over stimulation.
The calming effects of taurine have been well studied. Other studies of taurine have found that it can reduce epileptic seizures and that low taurine levels are associated with anxiety.
5-HTP
Serotonin is a neurotransmitter, or more correctly a neuromodulator, that is widely distributed throughout the brain and generally enhances GABA and therefore has inhibitory activity. Therefore, as a precursor to serotonin, 5-HTP can further increase the activity of GABA. Low serotonin levels are frequently an underlying component of many clinical conditions that are also related to GABA function, e.g. insomnia, depression, & anxiety.
Neurotransmitter tests show that GABA needs serotonin to function properly. Normally, GABA increases and acts through a negative feedback mechanism to reduce elevated excitatory neurotransmitters. However, this feedback mechanism requires the neuromodulating effects of serotonin. This is evident in patients with symptoms related to low GABA who have adequate GABA levels but low serotonin.
rene
9 years ago
DRUGS: FYI:
Drugs that are have a negative influence in a severe floxed person are all statins, all neuroleptics, all drugs that modify or alter the inmune system, many blood thinners and anti-inflammatories, and many more. If you need to take them, watch out for side effects, adjust the dosage and talk to your doctor (just in the improbable case he wants to listen to you). Avoid if possible all other drugs with a clear toxic profile.
You should also take into account that the impairment caused by quinolones, of some of the P450 liver pathways, may also impede the normal metabolization of some of the drugs that you have to take, or may cause another intoxication on you because of the undue levels that the new drug can reach in your body fluids.
enzymes in the liver often metabolize medications so that the medication can be more effectively removed from the body. The biggest mistake that the medical class is making again is considering that the inhibition of the enzymes caused by quinolones takes place as long as the drug is ingested. Doctors and researchers believe (because they have not investigated counter wise) that activation of P450 enzymes return to normal once the quinolone is discontinued.
That is a big mistake with serious consequences. After a floxing, the P450 inhibition can last for months or years, depending on the severity of the fluoroquinolone toxicity. Thus, there can be a “virtual interaction” between the quinolone and a new drug that a floxed person takes one year after being floxed. This can be difficult for your doctors to understand because they think that the quinolone is no longer in your body, and perhaps they are right, but crudely true, as the effect on the P450 pathway is still present.
So, floxed persons can exhibit signs of drug “interactions” with his/her formerly taken quinolone when the liver damage interferes with the removal of another medication. For instance, ciprofloxacin taken in the past after a strong reaction can inhibit (prevent the activity of) one of the pathways that is used to eliminate medications from the body some years later. Some of the medications that use CYP1A2 for an elimination pathway are listed below. If CYP1A2 (another way of naming P450-1A2) is inhibited, and the dose of these medications is not reduced, the medicine could accumulate in the body to levels that could cause serious adverse drug reactions.
The floxed person only has reason to worry if his/her reaction has been severe. For mild and intermediate reactions, the inhibition of the P540 pathways returns to normal in some month’s time. Do not make any decision on your own, always consult your doctor and do as you agree with him. If you have to take any of the above listed drugs for an extended time, suggest to him to test you prior to and during the treatment, to detect possible overdosing effects.
Differences in individual availability of P450 enzymes might very well be behind many susceptibilities to quinolone treatments because these enzymes play an important role in chemical sensitivity. Thus, those with a mutation of CYP1A2 could detoxify cipro at only 0.5%-20% of the normal capacity, resulting in acute hypersensitivities (not allergies) after a single pill.
It is well known that in the Korean War, soldiers with G6PD deficiency were hypersensitive to an anti- malarial drug. Among healthy people there is a 40-fold variation in P450 1A2, the most important of the P450 enzymes necessary to detoxify quinolones and chemical substances. Many subjects suffering from multiple chemical sensitivity are now known to be P450-compromised. It seems possible that different reactions to quinolones can also be modulated by P450 availability. It also looks plausible that repetitive treatments with quinolones can impair the P450 pathway even for people that initially had a large metabolic capacity, so the patients tend to become more and more sensitive to quinolones with successive treatments.
steph
9 years ago
Does anyone else feel much better earlier in the day? As far as leg, joint, pains?
Also 3 weeks into my floxing I attampted a light workout yesterday. I was much more tired/sore afterwards (for such a low key workout, I used to push myself much much harder – like everyone else).
In anyone’s opinion who feels like commenting, is it better to do very light exercise so early? Or am I better off waiting a bit longer? Part of me feels like keeping my joints moving MIGHT be the best thing since I am currently able to. This is all just so weird, and such a gamble it seems!
I used the recumbent bike for 30 and did a few crunches and light weight tri extensions. I miss yoga!
Much love to those experiencing a lot more pain than I am currently.
Thanks Rene for all your valuable information! What are your thoughts on ozone therapy injection? I’m 3 months out and seriously considering this….only because I feel it may offset some other symptoms that may pop up overtime. I’m still pretty functional but my feet and leg pain seem to be intensifying.
steph
9 years ago
Cool little tip I discovered – I’ve been putting a full mL of Mega Mag – Magnesium liquid into a 32 oz Nalgene bottle. It only tastes slightly mineral-y. I think this is good because A. you’re getting a lot of hydration B. you’re also getting a constant flow of Magnesium all day. Seems like a good idea? I can put up to 1.5 mL into the 32 oz. bottle w out it tasting that weird. I drink at least 2 of these 32 oz water magnesium cocktails a day. I think that’s about 3 mL of Mag. May even try to push it to 4.
SM
9 years ago
For most of the almost 20 months of fighting this, I’ve been relatively passive. I haven’t gone supplement crazy. I haven’t tried tons of alternative medicine. That’s because the commonality in the recoveries I’ve seen has been time. Lately, I’ve been trying PT for foot pain. That has included ASTYM, ultrasound, electrical stimulation, and other tecniques. I’ve also recently started seeing an ND and done IVs of glutathione and started quite a few supplements at her suggestion.
So where’s this all gotten me? No where as far as I can tell. I’m not worse from PT and even feel my feet are looser and less tender than when I started 8 sessions ago. But it hasn’t really changed my daily pain experience if that makes sense. I’ll continue a while longer. It’s just money and at this point I don’t care about that.
As far as glutathione, it hasn’t done a thing. I’ll do a few more because she’s continuing to ramp up the dosage. I will probably continue the supplements for longer. The ALA may take a month or two to work she said. And the vitamin C and magnesium won’t hurt. I’ve also started on B12 again which I couldn’t tolerate before. And I’m now on 5000+ IUs of D as that is quite low and both my regular dr. and ND have urged me to take it.
I simply do not understand the recovery from this. The time frames and process is baffling.
I know that a lot of women find their flox symptoms flare up around the time of their period, but does anyone else find it’s worse mid month too, around ovulation time?
My friend made me an awesome walking stick with a para cord handle on it. It is made of honey suckle it had a natural twist in it. I just love it. It sure helps me get around.
Also I have been using moderate ankle braces by Ace and they seem to help my achilles tendons.
Ma4rk ans anyone else tp whom I owe ananswer – am having a bad bout of hypotension, need to be hund upside down fpr a few days, will answer when blood returns to foggy brain. It’s from exhaustion.
The dr’s should admit it’s not autoimmune, but it’s cipro damage and it takes 1 or more years to heal.
To everyone who is just starting, it does get better — IF you don’t get refloxed. Refloxing is the hard part.
dest did yiu have muscle spasms or vision issues go away now your better
If any of you get the 23andme test and have a medical professional walk you through the data. It opens your eyes. We all have genetic predispositions in our dna for things. Through a Flouroquinolone in your body and it just makes you get them. It reminds me of radiation poisoning, Your fine take a poison and your sick.
hi Lisa and everyone, I went to the dentist this week to have an amalgam removed and the first part of a crown and was given mepivicaine or carbocaine as it’s also called. i had a bad reaction to it, became weak, dizzy and even a little paranoid and still am dizzy and feeling a little brain foggy two days later. I realized last night that mepivicaine has two carboxic acid molecules in it. 🙁 so now i’m feeling like i’ve refloxed myself. i had asked for anything except lidocaine since it has epinepherine and other floxies have suggested staying away from that. i’m now told i’ll have to have another injection of numbing agent the next time I go to actually have the crown put on as i have a temporary in now. can anyone suggest a numbing agent i could use without a carboxic acid molecule? has anyone tried lidocaine post flox and care to share their experience? anyone tried mepivocaine and want to share their experience? Lisa, do you have an answer to this? i’m sure people have had dental work done post flox and have had to use numbing agent…thoughts anyone?
Does anyone know why “Erin’s Story” got deleted from the recovery stories??
Hi Tricia- I am Erin as in “Erin’s Story”. I requested my story be removed after I had a severe reaction to commercial meat that was packaged as antibiotic free. I requested that my story be taken down because, even though I was no longer disabled after 6 months on SCD, all it took was 2 slices of commercial meat to devastate my gut and set me back to the beginning. It was 4 months later that I began using my essential oils to repair and heal my gut. This has been a remarkable recovery for me as I am now 100% fully functional and I am healthier than I have been since I was in my teens. My gut is healed, I have gained 25 pounds, no PN, no full mito function again, sleep is normal, hair skin back to being normal, thyroid function perfect, no musculoskeletal, etc. I am a fully recovered, fully functional person and healthier than I was before my first floxing a decade ago. I now work FULL time, commute 2 hours a day, I live a completely normal life. I keep a pretty low profile on FB because I want to. I am updating my recovery website as we speak so you are welcome to visit me there. It will be active later today. I wish you health and healing. Feel free to message me if you have questions.
http://fluoroquinolonevictimsadvocacynetwork.webs.com/
https://www.facebook.com/erin.spanglerwilson
Well, this is my fourth doctor in less than two weeks, including in the ER now. How a simple cold turned into this i don’t know. They are beginning to lean away from strep and are now recommending i return to the ENT to test some clear liquid filled spots in my throat. I was just there on Thursday…..go figure they popped up the next day. They look a lot like early throat cancer unfortunately, so I’m dreading my return visit.
Suddenly being floxed is the least of my problems….a cure? Maybe not.
For those that are newbies and concerned with the exaggerated sensitivities to various drugs,….Here is some information that will help illuminate why. These sensitivities can improve but to what degree is very individual and likely for an extended period of time beyond 2 years easily.
Quinolones “inhibi”t the metabolism of CYP1A2 and CYP3A4 substrates, with the consequence that these substrates reach toxic or inadequately high concentrations with unwanted effects. The toxicity typically encountered is identical to what would be seen from an overdose of the substrate drug. Some of these unwanted effects are actually considered interaction between drugs because one drug (the fluoroquinolone) impedes the normal acting of another drug (the substrate with which the quinolone interacts). In summary, enzyme inhibitors reduce the activity of a specific cytochrome P450 isoform, resulting in an accumulation of the substrate drug.
I myself already have a genetic mutation in exactly this spot so I never had a chance to tolerate a drug that would further inhibit CYP1A2….So the 1st tablet set off an autoimmune response, and burning along my limbs after the ingestion of the 3rd tablet and last tablet ingested.
As new drugs reach the marketplace and patients take an increasing number and variety of pharmaceutical agents for a host of medical conditions, the potential for serious drug interactions continues to grow. Ensuring that the medical histories of the floxed persons are up to date and acquiring knowledge of the various substrates, inducers and inhibitors of the CYP450 system will help practitioners avoid potentially serious adverse drug interactions, in other words, will help practitioners avoid causing new toxicities to floxed persons.
And for the floxed person, it is vital to know that his/her liver does not transform drugs, as it should do, so he/she must adopt the measures towards limiting or carefully studying the use of all substrates of the enzymes forced to malfunction by the fluoroquinolones. The human CYP3A4 isoform is the most abundant cytochrome family expressed in the human liver and intestine, and thus is involved in the metabolism of a greater number of drugs and a greater proportion of diverse drug-drug interactions than are other CYP isoforms.
God Bless,
Rene
I would like to add because we are suffering the effect of NEURO TOXICITY the eyes can also be effected. Exposure to neurotoxins can cause dizziness, nausea, loss of motor control, paralysis, difficulty with vision, seizures…etc.
The analogy of “removing a nasty stain in fabric”……slowly lifted out. In the long process of a incremental slow detoxification of the cells, neurons, CNS, soft tissue…..there also needs to be an exit from the body. Sometimes we feel worse after experiencing a period of improvement……My understanding is that is the time that the lymphatic system and other systems, liver, kidneys, pancreas, are exposed from newly dislodged toxicity now needing to be neutralized and expelled. Dreadful as it may feel, seems appropriate, to help ourselves with assistive measures. Infrared Saunas, magnesium baths, acupuncture. We do not want reabsorption.
Something to consider, is BENTONITE CLAY. I have used a table spoon of this at bed time to help assist in preventing reabsorption. Bentonite Clay is one of the most effective natural intestinal detoxifying agents available and has been recognized as such for centuries by native peoples around the world. I bought mine at health food store, brand “Yerba Prima” . I wont go into all the science, you can look into it, but it is amazing stuff and great simple aid. Bentonite clay adsorbs toxins (heavy metals, free radicals, pesticides), taking them in the way a sponge mops up.
Do not take Bentonite Clay around the time of taking your supplements.
I would like to add that:
Neurological issues and Peripheral Neuropathy issues are sometimes helped with R+Lipoic Acid and Phosphatidyl Serine. Lipoic Acid detoxifies neuro-toxins and Phosphatidyl Serine helps heal the nerves. I would assume this would be helpful anywhere in the body because They pass the BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER as do Cipro.
MAGNESIUM CHLORIDE the form found in MAGNESIUM OIL SPRAY for Trans dermal application, encounters toxins, pathogens, or heavy metal deposits that have lodged themselves in skin tissue. The magnesium chloride solution — which tests have shown contain virtually no toxins or impurities — would cause no discomfort if applied to tissue areas that have “no toxin or heavy metal buildup” . Since magnesium works in ionic form, entering inside each cell, it is crucial that a sufficient supply of magnesium ions are available.
When they enter through the skin, they will encounter toxins where they reside. Sensations experienced can range from mild itching to wildly painful. If you know what’s happening, then you won’t put the magnesium down and forget about it. You can dilute it and reapply, or add it to bath water or a foot bath. You can also apply it to another part of the body that doesn’t react as dramatically.
Once the magnesium has entered the body, it will be carried to the place of greatest need, where the greatest benefit can be realized. As your levels get to normal — whatever that is for you — any discomfort that you may have experienced, will abate. All you need to know is that it’s critical to the restoration and maintenance of your health.
This was something that has benefited me throughout my recovery. The first month into the 3rd year. Emphasis was daily 2x’s per day for the first 2 years….
For Any of You who have twitching, and anxiety this is worth considering, it helped me.
TAURINE
Taurine is an amino acid that is present at significant levels in the CNS and is positive modulator of GABA that does not have any adverse side-effects. Taurine also potentiates glycine – the inhibitory neurotransmitter in the spinal cord.
The role of taurine as an inhibitory amino acid has been confirmed in many studies. Not surprisingly, brain tissue and cardiac tissue, which are susceptible to high levels of neurotransmitter stimulation, maintain high levels of taurine. Taurine has been shown to prevent the neuronal damage that can occur when there is an exposure to increased levels of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate. Over stimulation by excitatory neurotransmitters is the primary cause of neuron death in ischemic stroke. Taurine has been found to significantly reduce neuron death caused by over stimulation.
The calming effects of taurine have been well studied. Other studies of taurine have found that it can reduce epileptic seizures and that low taurine levels are associated with anxiety.
5-HTP
Serotonin is a neurotransmitter, or more correctly a neuromodulator, that is widely distributed throughout the brain and generally enhances GABA and therefore has inhibitory activity. Therefore, as a precursor to serotonin, 5-HTP can further increase the activity of GABA. Low serotonin levels are frequently an underlying component of many clinical conditions that are also related to GABA function, e.g. insomnia, depression, & anxiety.
Neurotransmitter tests show that GABA needs serotonin to function properly. Normally, GABA increases and acts through a negative feedback mechanism to reduce elevated excitatory neurotransmitters. However, this feedback mechanism requires the neuromodulating effects of serotonin. This is evident in patients with symptoms related to low GABA who have adequate GABA levels but low serotonin.
DRUGS: FYI:
Drugs that are have a negative influence in a severe floxed person are all statins, all neuroleptics, all drugs that modify or alter the inmune system, many blood thinners and anti-inflammatories, and many more. If you need to take them, watch out for side effects, adjust the dosage and talk to your doctor (just in the improbable case he wants to listen to you). Avoid if possible all other drugs with a clear toxic profile.
You should also take into account that the impairment caused by quinolones, of some of the P450 liver pathways, may also impede the normal metabolization of some of the drugs that you have to take, or may cause another intoxication on you because of the undue levels that the new drug can reach in your body fluids.
enzymes in the liver often metabolize medications so that the medication can be more effectively removed from the body. The biggest mistake that the medical class is making again is considering that the inhibition of the enzymes caused by quinolones takes place as long as the drug is ingested. Doctors and researchers believe (because they have not investigated counter wise) that activation of P450 enzymes return to normal once the quinolone is discontinued.
That is a big mistake with serious consequences. After a floxing, the P450 inhibition can last for months or years, depending on the severity of the fluoroquinolone toxicity. Thus, there can be a “virtual interaction” between the quinolone and a new drug that a floxed person takes one year after being floxed. This can be difficult for your doctors to understand because they think that the quinolone is no longer in your body, and perhaps they are right, but crudely true, as the effect on the P450 pathway is still present.
So, floxed persons can exhibit signs of drug “interactions” with his/her formerly taken quinolone when the liver damage interferes with the removal of another medication. For instance, ciprofloxacin taken in the past after a strong reaction can inhibit (prevent the activity of) one of the pathways that is used to eliminate medications from the body some years later. Some of the medications that use CYP1A2 for an elimination pathway are listed below. If CYP1A2 (another way of naming P450-1A2) is inhibited, and the dose of these medications is not reduced, the medicine could accumulate in the body to levels that could cause serious adverse drug reactions.
1A2: acetaminophen (paracetamol), amitriptyline (elavil), diazepam, caffeine, chlordiazepoxide, clomipramine, clopidogrel, clozapine, cyclobenzaprine, desipramine, estradiol, flutamide, fluvoxamine, haloperidol, imipramine, mexiletine, mirtazapine, naproxen, nortriptyline, olanzapine, ondansetron, phenacetin, propafenone, propranolol, riluzole, ropivacaine, tacrine, theophylline, verapamil, warfarin, zileuton, zolmitriptan.
3A4, 3A5, 3A7:Macrolide antibiotics: clarithromycin, erythromycin (not 3A5, NOT azithromycin), telithromycin; Anti-arrhythmics:quinidine (not 3A5) ; Benzodiazepines:alprazolam, diazepam, midazolam, triazolam; Immune Modulators: cyclosporine; HIV Antivirals: indinavir, nelfinavir, ritonavir, saquinavir ; Prokinetic: cisapride; Antihistamines: astemizole, chlorpheniramine, terfenidine; Calcium Channel Blockers: amlodipine, diltiazem, felodipine, lercanidipine, nifedipine, nisoldipine, nitrendipine, verapamil; HMG CoA Reductase Inhibitors: atorvastatin, cerivastatin, lovastatin, NOT pravastatin, simvastatin; Steroid 6beta-OH: estradiol, hydrocortisone, progesterone, testosterone; Miscellaneous: alfentanyl, aprepitant, aripiprazole, buspirone, cafergot, caffeine, cilostazol, cocaine, codeine, dapsone, dextromethorphan, docetaxel, domperidone, eplerenone, fentanyl, finasteride, gleevec, haloperidol, irinotecan, LAAM, lidocaine, methadone, nateglinide, odanestron, pimozide, propranolol, quetiapine, quinine, risperidone, NOT rosuvastatin, salmeterol, sildenafil, sirolimus, tamoxifen, taxol, terfenadine, trazodone, vincristine, zaleplon, ziprasidone, zolpidem.
The floxed person only has reason to worry if his/her reaction has been severe. For mild and intermediate reactions, the inhibition of the P540 pathways returns to normal in some month’s time. Do not make any decision on your own, always consult your doctor and do as you agree with him. If you have to take any of the above listed drugs for an extended time, suggest to him to test you prior to and during the treatment, to detect possible overdosing effects.
Differences in individual availability of P450 enzymes might very well be behind many susceptibilities to quinolone treatments because these enzymes play an important role in chemical sensitivity. Thus, those with a mutation of CYP1A2 could detoxify cipro at only 0.5%-20% of the normal capacity, resulting in acute hypersensitivities (not allergies) after a single pill.
It is well known that in the Korean War, soldiers with G6PD deficiency were hypersensitive to an anti- malarial drug. Among healthy people there is a 40-fold variation in P450 1A2, the most important of the P450 enzymes necessary to detoxify quinolones and chemical substances. Many subjects suffering from multiple chemical sensitivity are now known to be P450-compromised. It seems possible that different reactions to quinolones can also be modulated by P450 availability. It also looks plausible that repetitive treatments with quinolones can impair the P450 pathway even for people that initially had a large metabolic capacity, so the patients tend to become more and more sensitive to quinolones with successive treatments.
Does anyone else feel much better earlier in the day? As far as leg, joint, pains?
Also 3 weeks into my floxing I attampted a light workout yesterday. I was much more tired/sore afterwards (for such a low key workout, I used to push myself much much harder – like everyone else).
In anyone’s opinion who feels like commenting, is it better to do very light exercise so early? Or am I better off waiting a bit longer? Part of me feels like keeping my joints moving MIGHT be the best thing since I am currently able to. This is all just so weird, and such a gamble it seems!
I used the recumbent bike for 30 and did a few crunches and light weight tri extensions. I miss yoga!
Much love to those experiencing a lot more pain than I am currently.
Mark, my site was under construction and just went back up today. You can find me on Facebook as well. https://www.facebook.com/erin.spanglerwilson
willnerin@volcano.net
Thanks Rene for all your valuable information! What are your thoughts on ozone therapy injection? I’m 3 months out and seriously considering this….only because I feel it may offset some other symptoms that may pop up overtime. I’m still pretty functional but my feet and leg pain seem to be intensifying.
Cool little tip I discovered – I’ve been putting a full mL of Mega Mag – Magnesium liquid into a 32 oz Nalgene bottle. It only tastes slightly mineral-y. I think this is good because A. you’re getting a lot of hydration B. you’re also getting a constant flow of Magnesium all day. Seems like a good idea? I can put up to 1.5 mL into the 32 oz. bottle w out it tasting that weird. I drink at least 2 of these 32 oz water magnesium cocktails a day. I think that’s about 3 mL of Mag. May even try to push it to 4.
For most of the almost 20 months of fighting this, I’ve been relatively passive. I haven’t gone supplement crazy. I haven’t tried tons of alternative medicine. That’s because the commonality in the recoveries I’ve seen has been time. Lately, I’ve been trying PT for foot pain. That has included ASTYM, ultrasound, electrical stimulation, and other tecniques. I’ve also recently started seeing an ND and done IVs of glutathione and started quite a few supplements at her suggestion.
So where’s this all gotten me? No where as far as I can tell. I’m not worse from PT and even feel my feet are looser and less tender than when I started 8 sessions ago. But it hasn’t really changed my daily pain experience if that makes sense. I’ll continue a while longer. It’s just money and at this point I don’t care about that.
As far as glutathione, it hasn’t done a thing. I’ll do a few more because she’s continuing to ramp up the dosage. I will probably continue the supplements for longer. The ALA may take a month or two to work she said. And the vitamin C and magnesium won’t hurt. I’ve also started on B12 again which I couldn’t tolerate before. And I’m now on 5000+ IUs of D as that is quite low and both my regular dr. and ND have urged me to take it.
I simply do not understand the recovery from this. The time frames and process is baffling.
I know that a lot of women find their flox symptoms flare up around the time of their period, but does anyone else find it’s worse mid month too, around ovulation time?
My friend made me an awesome walking stick with a para cord handle on it. It is made of honey suckle it had a natural twist in it. I just love it. It sure helps me get around.
Also I have been using moderate ankle braces by Ace and they seem to help my achilles tendons.
So my walking days I hope are around the corner.