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Jason
9 years ago
Hi Debs. Do some more googling about Iodine and Fluoride. It is proven that Iodine ingestion increases Fluoride excretion in the urine. Also, the whole reason they added Fluoride to the drugs were to “supercharge” them, which it obviously does, and it also crosses the Brain Blood Barrier, which of course means your whole Central Nervous System also gets affected. And yes Fluoride is cumulative and hides in many areas of your body, now imagine what happens when you add Cipro…. I have done a lot of research on this and am convinced that Fluoride is playing a bigger role here than you seem to think. Is the drug laced with other bad toxic things? Almost surely, but Fluoride is likely the worst, it is up there as one of the most toxic substances on the Earth and apparently the form they use in these drugs is one of the worst forms of Fluoride to make it worse
Jason
9 years ago
Here is another good article with several links to sources at the bottom:
My overall research would seem to concur with this summarized article. The bad news is the DNA damage would seem to be permanent; the good news for some is as long as you have not had big amounts of damage, you can likely: detox, eat whole, avoid toxins etc and improve. Results will obviously vary widely depending on overall amount ingested, how toxic you are in general, how efficient your liver & kidneys etc are working and many other factors.
rich
9 years ago
you taking that in tablet form Jason what mg … ta for video debs
rich
9 years ago
mark are you a young bloke like me….29
rich
9 years ago
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1555926481321777/ can join us younger floxies on this group if you want don’t know if your on the fb groups…. same story as you I think waiting to get back to the gym but not sure!
Has anyone had any sort of anastesia (dental work) and have not been refloxed or reacted badly??? I have a dentist appointment next week and very nervous 🙁
Hello everyone,
I just wanted to report in. Today I went to visit my grandma and I did not use my wheel chair. I am getting better. I am starting physical therapy and I have to go see my GI doc.
They are going to take me off the steroids. I am going to get some IV treatments. and then a trip to my acupuncturist. I just wanted to let everyone know. Also don’t give up I am sure there is an antidote to the Poison!
Mike Out
Suzanne
9 years ago
Debs and Melanie, thanks so much for your info. Makes me question all the fluoride treatments they give my kids once a year! I am definitely trying toms! I have been drinking only filtered or bottled water for about 17 years now. Hope it filters out enough fluoride! I still feel so overwhelmed…went to feel rite today with my dtr (which was my first outing in weeks) and attempted to purchase a few vitamins, oils…way too many to choose from and the variability on ingredients was crazy! I hope to find a naturopathic provider to assist me along the way, anyone have experience with them? Feel like screaming into my pillow… I am driving myself crazy with all the what ifs and could have beens and maybes that led me here. I actually found out I took levaquin in 2007 didn’t remember…makes me wonder if it has been building up since then…like I said feeling overwhelmed????
Please try not to panic, although this is indeed an extremely traumatising experience, & completely overwhelming when you first join the dots, please try to take comfort that we ALL have experienced this at discovering what has been done to us.
You WILL get through this , it might take a while , but I can confirm that after being around for such a long time that the majority of people EVENTUALLY get to a place where this becomes just another bad experience & they are able to get on with their lives. many people will even get to a place where they feel completely healed, as the stories here on floxiehope show. Yes some people do end up with long term damage , but this is NOT true for the majority of people who have been floxed, It just might take a bit of time to get there.
Even I after being hit no less than 7 times with 12 years of psychotropic drugs on top have yet again improved dramatically from where I was.
If I can still do do this after being floxed so many times, I truly believe that there is great hope for everyone. (( Hugs ))
This is looking at my whole experience over many years, my own experiences I healed completely from my first floxing I recovered 80% from the second one I reacted to, & watching others go through this & out the other side & this is what I can personally see
The greatest majority of people will heal enough EVENTUALLY to get on with their lives albeit with maybe a few limitations often relating to stamina, maybe a few annoying residual things such as floaters / tinnitus , which is adaptable to & this just becomes another bad experience / bad memory. not consuming their lives & not thought about much if at all
A smaller amount will eventually get to a place where they FEEL completely healed
A yet smaller amount will have some much longer term damage,which hangs around & will take a much longer time to improve, but WILL eventually do so, enough to be able to get on with their lives again maybe with limitations often to stamina stiffness etc & similar to as above
A very much smaller amount of people will maybe have some more major permanent damage, I have kidney issues myself.
And of course the fewest, the small amount of our people we know about, who are of course not here, having lost their lives within a few hours / days often from from taking one or two doses.
So as you can see there is a vast amount of potential outcomes to floxing, keeping in mind that this is my own opinion / personal viewpoint from my own observations.
Jason
9 years ago
Hi Debs. Complex is an understatement for sure, and the Human Body is unbelievable complex. I don’t think we are “that” far apart here in opinions and research conclusions, except where it comes to the importance of the Fluoride in these drugs, here yes your conclusions disagree with mine and my research. As I mentioned, there are surely other toxic substances in the drugs, and the most concerning is how they damage the DNA, so this is at least a 2 fold problem (quick fact about Fluoride, its one of the most toxic substances on Earth, and causes Cancer faster than any other chemical on the planet – Dr Dean Burk, 34 years at the national cancer institute) http://wakeup-world.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fluoride-cancer2.jpg and I am certainly not trying to downplay their part in this overall poison, much like you are with the Fluoride.
As Wiki is not the most reliable source for info, I think you may have at least one fact between Nalidixic acid and all other quinolone’s misinterpreted. You said, “The original Quinolones, BEFORE the fluorine was even added, ALSO caused this horrendous damage to many people , & as a result many were actually withdrawn “. You also said in your second post “As there was NO fluorine in the original Quinolones”. These are incorrect statements, as Flumequine was the first Quinolone to be laced with Fluorine and was an original first gen Quinolone. So Nalidixic acid was one of the very first (although even Wiki points out that Nalidixic acid is NOT technically a quinolone) with no Fluoride or Carbon, and take a look at the side effects here, http://www.drugs.com/cdi/nalidixic-acid.html very different from 2nd gen and all others that followed, and with good reason. Surely not a good drug either, and as you point out potentially carcinogenic, but 2nd gen changed a few things with drastically different results. I discuss this more further down, but I can find nothing that points to first gen being anywhere near as bad as 2nd and later drugs.
2nd gen onwards (ones currently being used) we know that they are eukaryotic DNA gyrase and topoisomerase inhibitors very similar to many antineoplastic agents (source – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC189387/). What this means in plain English is that these drugs work the same way as chemotherapeutic drugs; they disrupt DNA and lead to destruction of cells. A 2011 study (source – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/?report=printable) published in the Journal of Young Pharmacists found that “There was substantial depletion in both SOD (superoxide dismutase, “a free radical scavenging enzyme”) and glutathione levels”. The study also notes that administration of fluoroquinolones leads to a marked increase in the formation of Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) and that “reactive free radicals overwhelms the antioxidant defence, lipid peroxidation of the cell membrane occurs. This causes disturbances in cell integrity leading to cell damage/death.
So what this says to me, is one of the things you can do ASAP after being floxed is take some good quality antioxidants, my research shows Selenium is of utmost importance (blocks absorption, also esp important when detoxing Fluoride), Vit E, Astaxanthin and others. Also, very important to support Glutathione production, Whey, NAC, ALA and others for this.
—–
On to Fluoride now, anyone wishing to compare the symptoms of Cipro toxicity and Fluoride toxicity to see just how much overlap there is can easily find this, here are just a couple sources:
Quote from one above source “People who are fluoride/fluoroquinolone poisoned become, almost by definition, hypersensitive to extremely small amounts, even trace exposures, of fluoride. In most cases, as long as these exposures continue, symptoms will continue. Further, people who are chemically sensitive as a result of exposure to other types of poisons will commonly become hypersensitive also to trace amounts of fluoride, a very effective poison. People who have a prior body burden (accumulation) of fluoride seem to be more susceptible to poisoning by fluoroquinolones and other fluorinated drugs, which include most general anesthesias, many chemotherapy drugs, most antidepressants, and many other common prescription medications (see our Index of Fluorinated Pharmaceuticals). At some point of saturation, most likely dependent on many variables specific to each individual, a threshold is reached after which symptoms will start and often progress in type and severity. Symptoms most often seen as a constellation in fluoroquinolone victims include: nervous system disorders (including neuropathy, dizziness, other nerve pain); musculoskeletal issues (including tendon rupture and joint and bone pain); various gastrointestinal symptoms; sensory problems (including auditory, visual, and olfactory impairment); cardiovascular symptoms; skin rashes and other skin reactions; thyroid problems; autoimmune diseases; blood sugar problems; and emotional problems, sometimes severe, among many other symptoms. Much is disturbing about these symptoms. They can be triggered by as few as one or 2 fluoroquinolone pills. Some effects can be permanent, ESPECIALLY if the victim does not carry out appropriate treatment. Since fluoroquinolone poisoning is a form of fluoride poisoning, it is essential to follow a detoxification program that is specific for fluoride poisoning. The most essential part of that is to put NO further fluoride/fluorine containing substances into or onto the body. The body will slowly detox itself, as long as no further F accumulation continues.”
From Mercola’s site (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/09/25/fluoroquinolone-antibiotics.aspx) with his sources cited at the bottom:
“Fluoroquinolones may be the deadliest antibiotics on the market. Besides nerve damage, they have been associated with damage to other body systems, including your musculoskeletal system, eyes and kidneys. What makes these particular drugs so hazardous? It has to do with the fact that fluoroquinolones are antibiotics whose potency has been “kicked up” by the addition of a fluoride molecule. Fluoride increases permeability into hard-to-penetrate tissues, such as your brain. Fluoroquinolones are quinolones with fluoride molecules attached—so they penetrate your blood-brain barrier. This ability to penetrate sensitive tissues is what makes fluoride such a potent neurotoxin, able to get into your brain and damage your central nervous system.”
—-
From my research I have seen there ARE things you can do to detox Fluoride, so again I think your research has overlooked many things here (included the fact many people are showing very successful results on Earthclinic and other places). There is also the issue of calcification which is I think you may have hinted at, like in particular your pineal gland. My research shows that Fluoride displaces Iodine, Boron, Magnesium and other important things from the body when it invades and then inhabits. Taking these ones in particular as supplements has been shown to remove the Fluoride AND stop further damage from occurring.
—-
Debs since you are convinced of a couple things, hopefully you can point out sources that led you to these conclusions below, as I have not seen anything alluding to these, and have seen the opposite cited in fact (very important the sources since there are so many lies and slanted studies out there, and be very careful with Wikipedia where it seems some or a lot of your info came from as you almost quoted them verbatim in your first post, a known unreliable source):
– “Stored Fluoride can NOT be detoxed from the body”. (Studies? Links?)
Here is just one that disagrees, there are many more: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/disease/fluoride-toxicity Quote” Tamarind intake appears to have an additional beneficial effect on the mobilization of deposited fluoride from bone, by enhancing urinary excretion of fluoride.” This was an actual Human study.
– “Fluoride is not one of the main contributors to damage” (Studies? Links?)
– “The first gen quinolones had the same bad effects as 2nd gen and later.” (Studies? Links?)
I can find very little info on this, other than the fact the Flumequine was the first Quinolone to have Fluorine in it, and it is ALSO a first gen as I pointed out. It also seems many of the first gen’s were not widely used, and all of them were relatively low potency, especially compared to later ones like 2nd gen Cipro. Cinoxacin is also first gen with no fluorine, and it seems side effects are a lot more like those of nalidixic acid. http://www.drugs.com/cons/cinoxacin.html Rosoxacin which is the only other first gen not an named as an “acid” (Oxolinic acid, Pipemidic acid and Piromidic acid being the other 3 I can find, which all have limited info about them on Internet from what I can tell, they are quite old) also seems to be much less harmful than 2nd gen and later from what I can gather http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?issn=0022-3859;year=1990;volume=36;issue=4;spage=191;epage=3;aulast=Vagaskar (quote” The side effects to rosoxacin observed by us were minimal and transient.”). I found this on Pipemidic Acid http://druginfosys.com/Drug.aspx?drugCode=967&drugName=&type=1 again these don’t look anything like 2nd gen stuff, where the massive list of damages are done to Central Nervous System, Musculoskeletal, Cardiovascular, and on and on. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/418295_2
—-
Questions, questions and more questions. Fluorine, and how different it is, studies that show it does not react like Fluoride once ingested in Human body? You said yourself when it combines with metals it changes, do you know how much metals are in your body right now? Do you want to guess where fluoride/fluorine likes to be stored in the Human body? Yep, same place as metals. Is it a coincidence that Metals being stored displace essential minerals such as iodine, zinc, copper, magnesium, and calcium? It should also be noted that the treatment for Fluorine toxicity and Fluoride toxicity is the same, avoid Fluoride. Is Fluorine safe all by itself? Apparently when stored in your teeth and bones, yes, but it is safe for ingestion? Is it safe when mixed with metals in other parts of your body where it doesn’t belong? Is it even safe without being mixed with Metals anywhere but teeth and bones? I’ll let everyone come to their own conclusions here, since most or all of these questions likely have no definitive answer currently.
A couple other questions, do you know if the other chemicals/harmful effects of the drugs are “being stored” still attached to the Fluorine? Again I’ll hazard a guess that no one does. However, some people have had accelerated recovery from Cipro by detoxing Fluoride from their bodies (see my other post regarding Jason A. Uttley as just one example with links). Coincidence again?
I hope you have found this informative; it has been a good discussion that hopefully others can learn from, I spent a LOT of time putting this all together for the forum here as I think its of critical importance and currently being universally overlooked. You pretty much pointed out yourself that your theory is based on a conjecture of sorts, hopefully I have helped a little with that. If the first gen’s were in fact DNA disrupters and not just protein inhibitors (which it seems they are), then undoubtedly they were bad news (actually pretty much all drugs all bad news, period), however from what I can see though no where near as bad as those with Fluorine. Is this because the Fluorine transports it too places not reached before, and much more efficiently? (and my other questions above all tie in here too) So, we can hopefully agree to agree here afterall, if not, well I guess that is okay too, hopefully you can point out why with references though.
Good luck all, we certainly need it in today’s World.
Disclaimer – I am not claiming to be an expert, and have no idea on the chance of recovery for people who are long time sufferers, I am only relaying what my research has shown me, and there is always more to do and new studies being done. (I also don’t claim all my resources and references are accurate, how could I). What I do know is some such people have found good results from Borax and Iodine among other methods. These don’t just prevent new Fluoride absorption (as Debs states) but ALSO chelate or leach it from the body along with some other bad stuff, in a very similar way you can leach toxic heavy metals from your body (which Iodine also does, along with Bromine which is in your bread and baked goods – Dr. Kenezy Gyula Korhaz). Note I am not suggesting anyone do anything here, there are so many variables involved, again I am just relaying information which I think is very useful and potentially very helpful to some people.
Peter
9 years ago
I’ve been trying heavy home remedies lately to cure Whatever it is i had, but with no luck. I’m having my second relapse since my antibiotics in January for strep, whatever. My throat is still red and raw and looks nasty, white spots, and heavy mucus. Im beginning to think my floxing crap is playing a factor in this illness. I haven’t been able to breathe out of my nose in 14 months and it has gotten worse in the last two months too the point all sneezes are through my mouth. I’m thinking since nothing comes out of my nose, it’s all draining down my throat and causing some of the irritation.
I just wish someone would help figure out why my nose is broken or why my throat is doing so terrible. I’m about to celebrate my birthday this weekend and i can’t say I’m looking forward to it. The only thing worse than my life with the floxing is a life with the floxing and other illnesses. It just never ends.
Daniela
9 years ago
A pinch of borax in a litre of water? Made me worse twice 🙁
Hi, ya’ll. It’s me again. I just saw a natural dr. here in Southeast Asia for help for my continuing issues. I did finish a 10-day course of doxycycline which apparently helped kill bacteria inside me. My 6-month fever seems to be gone. I’m a little wary of saying it’s gone for good, as having it daily as my constant companion for 6 months and then not having it for a week isn’t enough for me to declare it’s total absence. Anyway, the natural dr. tested me through reflexology and confirmed that I have systemic infection (maybe fungal?) and that my organs are all out of whack. It’s affecting my liver, spleen, kidneys, colon, lungs, and heart. She’s treating me with some treatments that I’m not sure might be helpful for floxies. I have nebulizing hydrogen peroxide mixture to treat the infection in my lungs. Also was put on colloidal silver 30 cc/3x day. And a special probiotic yogurt called GCMAF. Also 10,000 Vit D and 3000 vit C daily. And gargling VCO twice a day for thrush. Just started protocol this week. Oh, and she did accupuncture. I’m to go back this Sat for another accupuncture visit. I forgot to ask her if she’d dealt with FQ toxicity. Will hopefully remember to ask this Sat.
Oh, and the doxycycline gave me a tremendously bad reaction. Glad I was able to keep it going for 10 days at least. It majorly dropped my Lymphocyte count (down to 12–I read it can drop them altogether). I developed something like drug-induced SLE with severe joint/muscle aches, large purple splotches on my legs (about 20 per leg). That night (this is the 10th day), My temp sky-rocketed up to 39.5 and heart rate increased above 126. High bp 140/90 when I checked into ER. I guess very strong reaction to drug but wonder if my FQ poisoning (previously in Aug 2014) had anything to do with this strong reaction. I think Tetracyclines attack RNA of cells, if I have my research correct. Is their action any way related to FQs???
Clay
9 years ago
I kind of lost touch with the board, my update is as follows I still sound like popcorn as I walk up stairs or dry off in the shower, I have unexplained breakouts of scabs that literally look like fireworks on occasion and am headache pron all the time but the broken hand is about down to where the docs want to operate? Many on here said don’t do it but I am going to go ahead and try? Why because I haven’t had use of my hand for the last 6 months and I won’t be getting Cipro or Leviquin or any other to recover! Ihave two smallboys and Iwant to either be able to do fun athletic things with them or give up! I never knew what not having the use of your primary hand can do to you?I’m ready to try and so are the hand docs, my big worry is that my tendons and ligs are not ready but they think they are? Anybody want to talk me out of this? I’m all ears????
Peter
9 years ago
It’s nice to be positive, but I’m convinced that this is killing my body from the inside out faster than aging alone would ever do. There are just so many signs of “old age” happening. I wouldn’t be surprised if ten plus years are lost as a result of this medicine.
I continue to wonder why I’m so stupid. I’ve always been anti medicine and i chose this one to be the exception after not wanting to take it for over two weeks. I’ve lost a lot of hope in this world in the last 17 months and may never see things the same anymore. Like many people, i think “what if” ?
The few people who feel better often don’t live anywhere near the same life (avoiding this, taking that), aren’t 100% better, and incur so many additional costs, stresses, and pains.
If i had seen some progress in 17 months, maybe i would think more positively. I always read about time and yet this long into it, i just see more symptoms each month.
I get so aggravated with this…
rich
9 years ago
peter im not sure if your in the facebook groups but you may be around 29 like me as well …feel free to join the link I posted above…if not no worries…. not sure of your story or current symptoms… im 6 months out from 12 x cipro 500 pills……like mark waiting for that turnaround to get back to the gym and my old life…
david
9 years ago
Hello everyone.my name is David.I was floxed 3yrs ago(January 2012),when I took one 400mg of Ofloxacin in a day and I had reactions immediately and I stopped.I had all the pains and syptoms most floxies experience.but I recovered after a year and I live my life as if I was never floxed,cause I was 90% back to my former self.I even started carruing weights and I look good pysically.but the issue right now is that,4 days ago,I started feeling some tightness at the bottom right of my rib cage and some sharp pains in my abdomen.I know I haven’t been Re-floxed,but am scared.and my urine is Dark and foamy,which also scares me.please I need urgent advice.thanks.
Hi Debs. Do some more googling about Iodine and Fluoride. It is proven that Iodine ingestion increases Fluoride excretion in the urine. Also, the whole reason they added Fluoride to the drugs were to “supercharge” them, which it obviously does, and it also crosses the Brain Blood Barrier, which of course means your whole Central Nervous System also gets affected. And yes Fluoride is cumulative and hides in many areas of your body, now imagine what happens when you add Cipro…. I have done a lot of research on this and am convinced that Fluoride is playing a bigger role here than you seem to think. Is the drug laced with other bad toxic things? Almost surely, but Fluoride is likely the worst, it is up there as one of the most toxic substances on the Earth and apparently the form they use in these drugs is one of the worst forms of Fluoride to make it worse
Here is another good article with several links to sources at the bottom:
http://quickhealthnotes.weebly.com/fm-fluoroquinolones.html
My overall research would seem to concur with this summarized article. The bad news is the DNA damage would seem to be permanent; the good news for some is as long as you have not had big amounts of damage, you can likely: detox, eat whole, avoid toxins etc and improve. Results will obviously vary widely depending on overall amount ingested, how toxic you are in general, how efficient your liver & kidneys etc are working and many other factors.
you taking that in tablet form Jason what mg … ta for video debs
mark are you a young bloke like me….29
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1555926481321777/ can join us younger floxies on this group if you want don’t know if your on the fb groups…. same story as you I think waiting to get back to the gym but not sure!
if you want to swap ‘notes’ give me a shout at dickymott@hotmail.co.uk
Has anyone had any sort of anastesia (dental work) and have not been refloxed or reacted badly??? I have a dentist appointment next week and very nervous 🙁
Hello everyone,
I just wanted to report in. Today I went to visit my grandma and I did not use my wheel chair. I am getting better. I am starting physical therapy and I have to go see my GI doc.
They are going to take me off the steroids. I am going to get some IV treatments. and then a trip to my acupuncturist. I just wanted to let everyone know. Also don’t give up I am sure there is an antidote to the Poison!
Mike Out
Debs and Melanie, thanks so much for your info. Makes me question all the fluoride treatments they give my kids once a year! I am definitely trying toms! I have been drinking only filtered or bottled water for about 17 years now. Hope it filters out enough fluoride! I still feel so overwhelmed…went to feel rite today with my dtr (which was my first outing in weeks) and attempted to purchase a few vitamins, oils…way too many to choose from and the variability on ingredients was crazy! I hope to find a naturopathic provider to assist me along the way, anyone have experience with them? Feel like screaming into my pillow… I am driving myself crazy with all the what ifs and could have beens and maybes that led me here. I actually found out I took levaquin in 2007 didn’t remember…makes me wonder if it has been building up since then…like I said feeling overwhelmed????
Hi suzanne,
Please try not to panic, although this is indeed an extremely traumatising experience, & completely overwhelming when you first join the dots, please try to take comfort that we ALL have experienced this at discovering what has been done to us.
You WILL get through this , it might take a while , but I can confirm that after being around for such a long time that the majority of people EVENTUALLY get to a place where this becomes just another bad experience & they are able to get on with their lives. many people will even get to a place where they feel completely healed, as the stories here on floxiehope show. Yes some people do end up with long term damage , but this is NOT true for the majority of people who have been floxed, It just might take a bit of time to get there.
Even I after being hit no less than 7 times with 12 years of psychotropic drugs on top have yet again improved dramatically from where I was.
If I can still do do this after being floxed so many times, I truly believe that there is great hope for everyone. (( Hugs ))
This is looking at my whole experience over many years, my own experiences I healed completely from my first floxing I recovered 80% from the second one I reacted to, & watching others go through this & out the other side & this is what I can personally see
The greatest majority of people will heal enough EVENTUALLY to get on with their lives albeit with maybe a few limitations often relating to stamina, maybe a few annoying residual things such as floaters / tinnitus , which is adaptable to & this just becomes another bad experience / bad memory. not consuming their lives & not thought about much if at all
A smaller amount will eventually get to a place where they FEEL completely healed
A yet smaller amount will have some much longer term damage,which hangs around & will take a much longer time to improve, but WILL eventually do so, enough to be able to get on with their lives again maybe with limitations often to stamina stiffness etc & similar to as above
A very much smaller amount of people will maybe have some more major permanent damage, I have kidney issues myself.
And of course the fewest, the small amount of our people we know about, who are of course not here, having lost their lives within a few hours / days often from from taking one or two doses.
So as you can see there is a vast amount of potential outcomes to floxing, keeping in mind that this is my own opinion / personal viewpoint from my own observations.
Hi Debs. Complex is an understatement for sure, and the Human Body is unbelievable complex. I don’t think we are “that” far apart here in opinions and research conclusions, except where it comes to the importance of the Fluoride in these drugs, here yes your conclusions disagree with mine and my research. As I mentioned, there are surely other toxic substances in the drugs, and the most concerning is how they damage the DNA, so this is at least a 2 fold problem (quick fact about Fluoride, its one of the most toxic substances on Earth, and causes Cancer faster than any other chemical on the planet – Dr Dean Burk, 34 years at the national cancer institute) http://wakeup-world.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fluoride-cancer2.jpg and I am certainly not trying to downplay their part in this overall poison, much like you are with the Fluoride.
As Wiki is not the most reliable source for info, I think you may have at least one fact between Nalidixic acid and all other quinolone’s misinterpreted. You said, “The original Quinolones, BEFORE the fluorine was even added, ALSO caused this horrendous damage to many people , & as a result many were actually withdrawn “. You also said in your second post “As there was NO fluorine in the original Quinolones”. These are incorrect statements, as Flumequine was the first Quinolone to be laced with Fluorine and was an original first gen Quinolone. So Nalidixic acid was one of the very first (although even Wiki points out that Nalidixic acid is NOT technically a quinolone) with no Fluoride or Carbon, and take a look at the side effects here, http://www.drugs.com/cdi/nalidixic-acid.html very different from 2nd gen and all others that followed, and with good reason. Surely not a good drug either, and as you point out potentially carcinogenic, but 2nd gen changed a few things with drastically different results. I discuss this more further down, but I can find nothing that points to first gen being anywhere near as bad as 2nd and later drugs.
2nd gen onwards (ones currently being used) we know that they are eukaryotic DNA gyrase and topoisomerase inhibitors very similar to many antineoplastic agents (source – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC189387/). What this means in plain English is that these drugs work the same way as chemotherapeutic drugs; they disrupt DNA and lead to destruction of cells. A 2011 study (source – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/?report=printable) published in the Journal of Young Pharmacists found that “There was substantial depletion in both SOD (superoxide dismutase, “a free radical scavenging enzyme”) and glutathione levels”. The study also notes that administration of fluoroquinolones leads to a marked increase in the formation of Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) and that “reactive free radicals overwhelms the antioxidant defence, lipid peroxidation of the cell membrane occurs. This causes disturbances in cell integrity leading to cell damage/death.
So what this says to me, is one of the things you can do ASAP after being floxed is take some good quality antioxidants, my research shows Selenium is of utmost importance (blocks absorption, also esp important when detoxing Fluoride), Vit E, Astaxanthin and others. Also, very important to support Glutathione production, Whey, NAC, ALA and others for this.
—–
On to Fluoride now, anyone wishing to compare the symptoms of Cipro toxicity and Fluoride toxicity to see just how much overlap there is can easily find this, here are just a couple sources:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/12/24/fluoride-toxicity.aspx
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1124-93/cipro-oral/ciprofloxacin-oral/details/list-sideeffects
http://www.slweb.org/ftrcfluoroquinolone.html
http://www.slweb.org/ftrcpossiblesymptoms.html
Is it a coincidence? I think not.
Quote from one above source “People who are fluoride/fluoroquinolone poisoned become, almost by definition, hypersensitive to extremely small amounts, even trace exposures, of fluoride. In most cases, as long as these exposures continue, symptoms will continue. Further, people who are chemically sensitive as a result of exposure to other types of poisons will commonly become hypersensitive also to trace amounts of fluoride, a very effective poison. People who have a prior body burden (accumulation) of fluoride seem to be more susceptible to poisoning by fluoroquinolones and other fluorinated drugs, which include most general anesthesias, many chemotherapy drugs, most antidepressants, and many other common prescription medications (see our Index of Fluorinated Pharmaceuticals). At some point of saturation, most likely dependent on many variables specific to each individual, a threshold is reached after which symptoms will start and often progress in type and severity. Symptoms most often seen as a constellation in fluoroquinolone victims include: nervous system disorders (including neuropathy, dizziness, other nerve pain); musculoskeletal issues (including tendon rupture and joint and bone pain); various gastrointestinal symptoms; sensory problems (including auditory, visual, and olfactory impairment); cardiovascular symptoms; skin rashes and other skin reactions; thyroid problems; autoimmune diseases; blood sugar problems; and emotional problems, sometimes severe, among many other symptoms. Much is disturbing about these symptoms. They can be triggered by as few as one or 2 fluoroquinolone pills. Some effects can be permanent, ESPECIALLY if the victim does not carry out appropriate treatment. Since fluoroquinolone poisoning is a form of fluoride poisoning, it is essential to follow a detoxification program that is specific for fluoride poisoning. The most essential part of that is to put NO further fluoride/fluorine containing substances into or onto the body. The body will slowly detox itself, as long as no further F accumulation continues.”
From Mercola’s site (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/09/25/fluoroquinolone-antibiotics.aspx) with his sources cited at the bottom:
“Fluoroquinolones may be the deadliest antibiotics on the market. Besides nerve damage, they have been associated with damage to other body systems, including your musculoskeletal system, eyes and kidneys. What makes these particular drugs so hazardous? It has to do with the fact that fluoroquinolones are antibiotics whose potency has been “kicked up” by the addition of a fluoride molecule. Fluoride increases permeability into hard-to-penetrate tissues, such as your brain. Fluoroquinolones are quinolones with fluoride molecules attached—so they penetrate your blood-brain barrier. This ability to penetrate sensitive tissues is what makes fluoride such a potent neurotoxin, able to get into your brain and damage your central nervous system.”
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From my research I have seen there ARE things you can do to detox Fluoride, so again I think your research has overlooked many things here (included the fact many people are showing very successful results on Earthclinic and other places). There is also the issue of calcification which is I think you may have hinted at, like in particular your pineal gland. My research shows that Fluoride displaces Iodine, Boron, Magnesium and other important things from the body when it invades and then inhabits. Taking these ones in particular as supplements has been shown to remove the Fluoride AND stop further damage from occurring.
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Debs since you are convinced of a couple things, hopefully you can point out sources that led you to these conclusions below, as I have not seen anything alluding to these, and have seen the opposite cited in fact (very important the sources since there are so many lies and slanted studies out there, and be very careful with Wikipedia where it seems some or a lot of your info came from as you almost quoted them verbatim in your first post, a known unreliable source):
– “Stored Fluoride can NOT be detoxed from the body”. (Studies? Links?)
Here is just one that disagrees, there are many more: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/disease/fluoride-toxicity Quote” Tamarind intake appears to have an additional beneficial effect on the mobilization of deposited fluoride from bone, by enhancing urinary excretion of fluoride.” This was an actual Human study.
– “Fluoride is not one of the main contributors to damage” (Studies? Links?)
– “The first gen quinolones had the same bad effects as 2nd gen and later.” (Studies? Links?)
I can find very little info on this, other than the fact the Flumequine was the first Quinolone to have Fluorine in it, and it is ALSO a first gen as I pointed out. It also seems many of the first gen’s were not widely used, and all of them were relatively low potency, especially compared to later ones like 2nd gen Cipro. Cinoxacin is also first gen with no fluorine, and it seems side effects are a lot more like those of nalidixic acid. http://www.drugs.com/cons/cinoxacin.html Rosoxacin which is the only other first gen not an named as an “acid” (Oxolinic acid, Pipemidic acid and Piromidic acid being the other 3 I can find, which all have limited info about them on Internet from what I can tell, they are quite old) also seems to be much less harmful than 2nd gen and later from what I can gather http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?issn=0022-3859;year=1990;volume=36;issue=4;spage=191;epage=3;aulast=Vagaskar (quote” The side effects to rosoxacin observed by us were minimal and transient.”). I found this on Pipemidic Acid http://druginfosys.com/Drug.aspx?drugCode=967&drugName=&type=1 again these don’t look anything like 2nd gen stuff, where the massive list of damages are done to Central Nervous System, Musculoskeletal, Cardiovascular, and on and on. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/418295_2
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Questions, questions and more questions. Fluorine, and how different it is, studies that show it does not react like Fluoride once ingested in Human body? You said yourself when it combines with metals it changes, do you know how much metals are in your body right now? Do you want to guess where fluoride/fluorine likes to be stored in the Human body? Yep, same place as metals. Is it a coincidence that Metals being stored displace essential minerals such as iodine, zinc, copper, magnesium, and calcium? It should also be noted that the treatment for Fluorine toxicity and Fluoride toxicity is the same, avoid Fluoride. Is Fluorine safe all by itself? Apparently when stored in your teeth and bones, yes, but it is safe for ingestion? Is it safe when mixed with metals in other parts of your body where it doesn’t belong? Is it even safe without being mixed with Metals anywhere but teeth and bones? I’ll let everyone come to their own conclusions here, since most or all of these questions likely have no definitive answer currently.
A couple other questions, do you know if the other chemicals/harmful effects of the drugs are “being stored” still attached to the Fluorine? Again I’ll hazard a guess that no one does. However, some people have had accelerated recovery from Cipro by detoxing Fluoride from their bodies (see my other post regarding Jason A. Uttley as just one example with links). Coincidence again?
http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Liodine2.htm many references at the bottom
http://drsircus.com/medicine/iodine/iodine-protects-fluoride-toxicity
http://optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-12/IOD_12.htm many references at the bottom
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I hope you have found this informative; it has been a good discussion that hopefully others can learn from, I spent a LOT of time putting this all together for the forum here as I think its of critical importance and currently being universally overlooked. You pretty much pointed out yourself that your theory is based on a conjecture of sorts, hopefully I have helped a little with that. If the first gen’s were in fact DNA disrupters and not just protein inhibitors (which it seems they are), then undoubtedly they were bad news (actually pretty much all drugs all bad news, period), however from what I can see though no where near as bad as those with Fluorine. Is this because the Fluorine transports it too places not reached before, and much more efficiently? (and my other questions above all tie in here too) So, we can hopefully agree to agree here afterall, if not, well I guess that is okay too, hopefully you can point out why with references though.
Good luck all, we certainly need it in today’s World.
Disclaimer – I am not claiming to be an expert, and have no idea on the chance of recovery for people who are long time sufferers, I am only relaying what my research has shown me, and there is always more to do and new studies being done. (I also don’t claim all my resources and references are accurate, how could I). What I do know is some such people have found good results from Borax and Iodine among other methods. These don’t just prevent new Fluoride absorption (as Debs states) but ALSO chelate or leach it from the body along with some other bad stuff, in a very similar way you can leach toxic heavy metals from your body (which Iodine also does, along with Bromine which is in your bread and baked goods – Dr. Kenezy Gyula Korhaz). Note I am not suggesting anyone do anything here, there are so many variables involved, again I am just relaying information which I think is very useful and potentially very helpful to some people.
I’ve been trying heavy home remedies lately to cure Whatever it is i had, but with no luck. I’m having my second relapse since my antibiotics in January for strep, whatever. My throat is still red and raw and looks nasty, white spots, and heavy mucus. Im beginning to think my floxing crap is playing a factor in this illness. I haven’t been able to breathe out of my nose in 14 months and it has gotten worse in the last two months too the point all sneezes are through my mouth. I’m thinking since nothing comes out of my nose, it’s all draining down my throat and causing some of the irritation.
I just wish someone would help figure out why my nose is broken or why my throat is doing so terrible. I’m about to celebrate my birthday this weekend and i can’t say I’m looking forward to it. The only thing worse than my life with the floxing is a life with the floxing and other illnesses. It just never ends.
A pinch of borax in a litre of water? Made me worse twice 🙁
Hi, ya’ll. It’s me again. I just saw a natural dr. here in Southeast Asia for help for my continuing issues. I did finish a 10-day course of doxycycline which apparently helped kill bacteria inside me. My 6-month fever seems to be gone. I’m a little wary of saying it’s gone for good, as having it daily as my constant companion for 6 months and then not having it for a week isn’t enough for me to declare it’s total absence. Anyway, the natural dr. tested me through reflexology and confirmed that I have systemic infection (maybe fungal?) and that my organs are all out of whack. It’s affecting my liver, spleen, kidneys, colon, lungs, and heart. She’s treating me with some treatments that I’m not sure might be helpful for floxies. I have nebulizing hydrogen peroxide mixture to treat the infection in my lungs. Also was put on colloidal silver 30 cc/3x day. And a special probiotic yogurt called GCMAF. Also 10,000 Vit D and 3000 vit C daily. And gargling VCO twice a day for thrush. Just started protocol this week. Oh, and she did accupuncture. I’m to go back this Sat for another accupuncture visit. I forgot to ask her if she’d dealt with FQ toxicity. Will hopefully remember to ask this Sat.
Oh, and the doxycycline gave me a tremendously bad reaction. Glad I was able to keep it going for 10 days at least. It majorly dropped my Lymphocyte count (down to 12–I read it can drop them altogether). I developed something like drug-induced SLE with severe joint/muscle aches, large purple splotches on my legs (about 20 per leg). That night (this is the 10th day), My temp sky-rocketed up to 39.5 and heart rate increased above 126. High bp 140/90 when I checked into ER. I guess very strong reaction to drug but wonder if my FQ poisoning (previously in Aug 2014) had anything to do with this strong reaction. I think Tetracyclines attack RNA of cells, if I have my research correct. Is their action any way related to FQs???
I kind of lost touch with the board, my update is as follows I still sound like popcorn as I walk up stairs or dry off in the shower, I have unexplained breakouts of scabs that literally look like fireworks on occasion and am headache pron all the time but the broken hand is about down to where the docs want to operate? Many on here said don’t do it but I am going to go ahead and try? Why because I haven’t had use of my hand for the last 6 months and I won’t be getting Cipro or Leviquin or any other to recover! Ihave two smallboys and Iwant to either be able to do fun athletic things with them or give up! I never knew what not having the use of your primary hand can do to you?I’m ready to try and so are the hand docs, my big worry is that my tendons and ligs are not ready but they think they are? Anybody want to talk me out of this? I’m all ears????
It’s nice to be positive, but I’m convinced that this is killing my body from the inside out faster than aging alone would ever do. There are just so many signs of “old age” happening. I wouldn’t be surprised if ten plus years are lost as a result of this medicine.
I continue to wonder why I’m so stupid. I’ve always been anti medicine and i chose this one to be the exception after not wanting to take it for over two weeks. I’ve lost a lot of hope in this world in the last 17 months and may never see things the same anymore. Like many people, i think “what if” ?
The few people who feel better often don’t live anywhere near the same life (avoiding this, taking that), aren’t 100% better, and incur so many additional costs, stresses, and pains.
If i had seen some progress in 17 months, maybe i would think more positively. I always read about time and yet this long into it, i just see more symptoms each month.
I get so aggravated with this…
peter im not sure if your in the facebook groups but you may be around 29 like me as well …feel free to join the link I posted above…if not no worries…. not sure of your story or current symptoms… im 6 months out from 12 x cipro 500 pills……like mark waiting for that turnaround to get back to the gym and my old life…
Hello everyone.my name is David.I was floxed 3yrs ago(January 2012),when I took one 400mg of Ofloxacin in a day and I had reactions immediately and I stopped.I had all the pains and syptoms most floxies experience.but I recovered after a year and I live my life as if I was never floxed,cause I was 90% back to my former self.I even started carruing weights and I look good pysically.but the issue right now is that,4 days ago,I started feeling some tightness at the bottom right of my rib cage and some sharp pains in my abdomen.I know I haven’t been Re-floxed,but am scared.and my urine is Dark and foamy,which also scares me.please I need urgent advice.thanks.