Welcome to Floxie Hope


This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – Why NSAIDs Suck for Floxies (and Probably Everyone Else Too)

[This site is about Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome, Floxing, cipro side-effects, levaquin side-effects, avelox side-effects, floxin side-effects, fluoroquinolone antibiotics, antibiotic side-effects, dangerous drugs, cipro danger, levaquin danger, avelox danger, cipro reaction, levaquin reaction, avelox reaction, floxin reaction, Cipro recovery, levaquin recovery, avelox recovery, floxin recovery, recovery stories, fluoroquinolone poisoning, adverse drug reaction, healing, hope, and any other keywords that are important. :) ]

Please support Floxie Hope –

Thank you!  More info about supporting this site can be found HERE

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including Cindy and Ruth.  Affiliate link –



6,322 thoughts on “Welcome to Floxie Hope

  1. ursula July 15, 2015 at 10:23 pm Reply
    • Rene July 16, 2015 at 10:49 am Reply

      Very true, and also applies to others with SNP’s in specific genes…..the man made folic acid just lays around and ramps up glutamate production….not a good thing.

      All of the so called fortified / enriched foods with Folic Acid /Calcium / Vitamin D /are a disaster that has been laid onto the to the public by the big food conglomerates as well as allowed by the FDA….synthetic unnatural crap. Which makes even buying rice milk, or almond milk an issue, never mind that there are no almonds practically in the store bought brands.

    • Jason July 17, 2015 at 7:20 pm Reply

      This is a sad truth, that even Vitamins and Minerals can’t be trusted :(

      Truth is, anything that is “synthetic”, mad-made, or “man-handled” and/or tampered with (see farmed fish for example) is going to be garbage. Yes, the “Man” part of the equation is the problem, once they get their dirty hands in there, well health is not their priority $$$ is

      There is a “rumour” going around (in health circles) that taking too many supplements can cause cancer. At first, it smells of more Big Pharma lies and Propaganda. However, the truth is too many of these supplements have some chemicals in them, and/or are formulated through chemical process’s leaving residues etc. So as much I would like to go on thinking its more BP lies, sadly the rumour is likely true. Its just common sense really, that the body is not set up to deal with “unnatural substances”, and science is proving more and more that its just a plain jane fact; “not natural, don’t ingest it.”

      Here is a little more info on some different types of Vitamin B9:


      I’ve been reading a lot about this lately and those in the know say that Methyltetrahydrofolate, and active form, is the best form to take. All the B Vitamins are important but some are absolutely critical to your health and some of your main body functions. For example:

      Vitamin B5 + Fats = Hormones. Your Liver makes Cholesterol from fats + B5, if you are lacking in any one of these 2 things your body is going to have trouble making Pregnenolone, which is considered the “Master Hormone” as its first in line and most of the other important ones are derived from it. This is what the simplified process looks like which shows you just how important Fats + B5 is:

      Fats + B5 => Chlor => Pregnenolone => DHEA => Testosterone => Estradiol
      => Progesterone => Cortisol

      I’m know I have not been getting enough fats in diet, something I have to change ASAP. The best form of Vitamin B5 is Pantethine.

      Vitamin B6 is critical for Neural Transmitter manufacturing and Methylation, two extremely important process’s to your health so again something you don’t want to be deficient in. Best form is pyridoxyl-5-phosphate

      Vitamin B9, what started the discussion, also critical to Methylation

      Vitamin B12, tons of stuff including Methylation, methylcobalamin best form, but apparently there are liposome-based liquid forms that are good too, and of course injections.

      The importance of Methylation can’t be overstated, its another vital process responsible for many things included Glutathione synthesis and Detoxification, Gene expression, Homocysteine metabolism, cardiovascular health, Neurotransmitter balance and more.

      • Jason July 17, 2015 at 7:45 pm Reply

        I should actually mention that the best forms of any vitamins are those from food, the above forms are supplementation forms. If there’s one universal truth that I have learned from the years and years and years of research I’ve done, its that food is quite simply “everything” when it comes to health (well, almost).

        It sounds cliche but I have to say it again, “you are what you eat”, and as you can see above, you’re also “not what you don’t eat”, or in other words, if like me your diet is lacking things your body is going to be deficient in some very important things.

        Without enough proper Proteins, you won’t have Amino Acids, then you won’t have enough Neural Transmitters and many many other things. No wonder Prozac is given out like Candy (too bad its the wrong solution….) and you see so many people stressed out, unhappy, etc etc. Without enough Fats, no Hormones, yikes! Without enough Veggies, no Vitamins and Minerals. Without these things, quite simply you will be going down a path of Disease, Pills, Suffering and Death.

        I have seen 4 Naturalpaths in past years, and every one of them wants to know EXACTLY what you are eating, its just that important. Any shortage anywhere and that will correctly be one of the first things addressed.

      • Linda Livingston July 17, 2015 at 8:06 pm Reply

        well, it’s true of anything, that some people just cannot tolerate certain things, whether it is allergies or whatever…and some supplements are just plain better than others eg made without unnecessary additives and preservatives, or just not containing what they say they contain. But anyhow, I jotted down the whole methylation thing to take to one of my NDs. (Sadly, the only way I could remember MTHFR, was by telling her “you know, it reminds me of “m*ther f*cker”—she knew exactly what I meant.) So I am going to order the test from 23&me and then send results to her so she can go over them with me. Thanks for the tip.

        • Jason July 17, 2015 at 9:43 pm

          LOL, yeah I had associated it with the first part, Mother, just not the last…. :)

          Glad you are finding this info useful. The statistics are that apparently up to 40% of the population are “under-Methylatators”, and around 15% are “over”. The MTHFR Gene mutation is just one possibly cause of this “disturbance in the force”. There are many other things someone needs to quickly learn if they have this Gene, I am not going to go into it here because there is so much, but if someone has this and wants more info I will as I’ve done a ton of research on this already. Bottom line is if you have the MTHFR Gene, and especially two SNP’s in particular you really need to get on a supplement program, here is a quote from one source:

          “It is not possible to be homozygous C677T MTHFR and be completely normal if you are not taking methylfolate. When I say, ‘normal’ I mean your biochemistry is not fully functioning like it should.”

          This is actually an understatement, believe me, and if you those two really bad ones you are set up and prone to many diseases unfortunately, so this report can be worth its weight in Gold.


          Linda I am gathering you are in the USA from our discussion on last page. One of the main complaints about the 23andMe service and especially for the USA is the report you get back is incredibly complex, and literally its like “all Greek”, and unless someone is specifically trained in Genes/DNA, which very Doctor’s are, its just not going to be of any use or make any sense what-so-ever. Here is what you CAN do though:

          When you get the results back, you can go to a few different sites to get it interpreted (this is trouble with USA service, its uninterpreted thanks to FDA) and get the methylation genetics interpreted. One of them is GeneticGenie.org. You go there, you click on Methylation Analysis, and it hooks up to your 23andMe data and it spits back a report. A much more comprehensive report is available at MTHFRSupport.com, and this can again give you information that will probably just totally confuse anyone without training, but it’s something that can then be taken to a knowledgeable medicine practitioner for further interpretation.

          The good news for those in the USA is I have verified with 23andme that they get access to the same raw data as everyone else, so because I am in Canada I will pay $100 more for their interpretation, which as I told them, stinks, since at least one website will take that data and do it for free. (I think 50 would have been more fair, but hey what do I know… hah, I’m just tired of forking over cash…)

        • Linda Livingston July 17, 2015 at 9:54 pm

          yes, I am in the U.S. and the ND I spoke with was very familiar with this and has printed out instructions for me to get the info to her and she will interpret it for me.

      • Rene July 18, 2015 at 12:15 pm Reply

        I cant emphasize enough that just looking at the MTHFR gene and taking active folate can be very very dangerous. The other genes in the methylation pathway also contribute, to the bigger picture, and may need to be addressed first before adding methyl donors. Depending on the SNP’s, in the methylation pathway, Adding methyl donors is going to open the gates for detoxification……but without the foundation being supported in advance a person can get very ill.

        I am one of those people. It did happen to me, inducing an autoimmune response. Took most of a year to recover. Very frightening and happened fast. very fast. Just like cipro did! Therefore, without addressing “the entire pathway” in a well analyzed measured way, and just taking active folate, can after a brief honeymoon of a week induce rapid negative changes that are life changing. Urine analysis of Amino Acids, Trace minerals, Minerals and Heavy Metals are needed to see the functional data. It is not just looking at Genes. Glutamate/ Gabba balance is priority #1 and The CBS gene before adding methyl donors such as active folate. Very low dosages as small as a dab on the end of toothpick are for some all that will be tolerated when they are able to add it…..and then slowly over weeks and months titrated gradually up. Especially for those that have had chronic illness for years.

        3 years of studying these genes and methylation…..fascinating, complex, and revelatory, and has improved my life. However, consult with professionals who are not just looking at the one MTHFR Gene by itself. As important as MTHFR is……is does not stand alone. The functional data of each person provides invaluable information necessary to formulate a tailored protocol for that person that will have a starting point and steps. Step one, Step Two, Step three. Not advancing to each next step until ready and safe to do so.

        • Jason July 18, 2015 at 7:50 pm

          Good input Rene and glad to hear it helped you. Its a wholeeeeee new can o worms indeed, and we agree a very big and complex one, that is why I said I’m not going to go into it here because there is so much, too much really, and as you point out a proper approach for supplementation has to take everything into account so there is no way to really advise someone properly without knowing these factors anyway. I think it’s good we got some basic info out there for people to see though, I was unaware of many of these factors myself until just a short time ago.

        • Jason July 18, 2015 at 8:21 pm

          Since we’re on the subject, I might as well share what I just noticed in my inbox:

          Hi Jason. I hope you are finding the Useful Resources page exactly that – useful. I have plans this week to record two presentations on the following subjects:

          1) What is Methyl Trapping and Why is it Bad?
          2) Why is Folic Acid Far From Ideal?

          In the meantime, I want to share with you a very common issue:
          – Methylfolate Side Effects.

          Many times doctors prescribe their patients high dose L-Methylfolate upon seeing a MTHFR mutation. While sometimes high dose methylfolate can be extremely beneficial, other times it can be causing an ER visit. Please read this article on Methylfolate Side Effects:


          If you are feeling any of those side effects since having started methylfolate, then you need to talk with your doctor.

          Typically, my recommendation is to start low and work up. This way if there is a potential side effect, then the effect is not severe and may be neutralized by niacin quite easily. I also typically recommend the use of methylfolate along with methylcobalamin in order to prevent methyl trapping. Again, you will learn about methyl trapping soon.

          If you have not yet tried methylfolate or methylcobalamin, I recommend you start with no more than 1/2 lozenge after breakfast or after lunch. Do not take past lunch time. One half a lozenge provides 400 mcg of L-5-MTHF (l-methylfolate) and 500 mcg of Methylcobalamin (Vitamin B12).

          If you have experienced any side effects from taking methylfolate, please do share your story via comments in the thread. Already over 85 comments have been posted. The more comments we receive, the more we can urge doctors to be careful in the amounts they recommend.

          I look forward to getting my two presentations to you – they’ve been on my To-Do List for too long…time to get them done!

          In Health,

          Dr Lynch


          Note – This is a VERY good website full of info and not just on MTHFR, on Methylation much more for people that want more info and/or help with their results.

        • Rene July 19, 2015 at 11:40 am

          Hi Jason,
          I would absolutely NOT start as high as 400mcg of active folate! That is absolutely too high to start out with. The honeymoon can be so sweet, and literally like a freight train in a few days or 5 days later…..a person can ramp so fast with excess glutamate, and that is not any where you want to be. It is a horrendous experience that can take one year to recover from. Ben Lynch as knowledgeable as he is very disappointing in that the DOSAGE he is suggesting to start with is WAY WAY TOO HIGH for certain folks. 50mcg maybe all that could be handled !!!! Starting LOW….for a week and only adding 1/4 more at a time for a week or longer is the safest and most responsible method. Some people cant handle more than a dab on a toothpick!!

          I could scream at Ben Lynch for posting that starting dosage. AND NOT including the fact that until glutamate and Gaba are in balance and then the CBS SNP(s) are addressed dont be adding methyl donors.!!!!! Why risk…..and again….NONE of this is ever general….it is all based on the functional tests run that show what is actually occurring…AND the genes SNPs in the pathway inform where the “holes” are in the pathway and how to bypass them and give support that will actually count versus being dumped out of the system.

          Once you have overdosed active folate, calls to your Doctor will be no different than a flox situation. Nobody will know, or respect the information you will give them as to how taking that substance is the cause. AND they can offer nothing to help, but their DRUGS….which will be psych drugs. I am very sincere in saying this. This is serious stuff, and effects the neurotransmitters in the brain. The people who have been floxed and are climbing out of their skin with panic attacks and anxiety, suicidal, and emotional behavior and thoughts, know this too well……when you have excess Glutamate and lack of Gaba to keep things in check. The heart also being affected…hence palpitations. Exactly the horrific ride that some floxed folk have suffered so terribly from.

          This is why I emphasize adhering to a diet that is free from “NATURAL FLAVORS” “AUTOLYSED & HYDROLYZED YEAST & PROTEIN, WHEY, CALCIUM SUPPLEMENTATION, MSG, …etc. All contributors of altering the balance of Glutamate and Gaba.

        • Jason July 19, 2015 at 1:37 pm

          Rene I totally agree with you given the potential end result, and I too wonder why someone like him is recommending that to start? Doesn’t make sense, I mean what is the rush right? Better safe than sorry, even if you can negate some/much of the bad effect with Niacin. I don’t think 400 is a lot, but still as you point out why even go that high given the risks.

        • Rene July 19, 2015 at 2:19 pm

          One more important point….the idea that Niacin can mitigate all that can ensue from too much of active folate…..is not accurate either!!! That is implying that if you get into trouble you just add niacin…..well in some situations for some people they may be able to do just that…….But to generalize is ridiculous. There are other things to do, and that he never seems to recommend the monitoring of urine analysis through out the process…..and LOW dosages often means 1/8th pf a substance for months. It took me a year to gradually raise the trace mineral “lithium orotate”….to 5mg.

          The context of what I am saying: is that of addressing the population with long standing chronic health conditions. That means those with neurological inflammation, CFDIS, Lyme, MS, Bi-polar, ADD, ADHD, Autism, sickly ill people who have been bed ridden, or significantly limited in what they can handle in their daily lives….poor immune system etc. It is that population that this science is addressing……in that the average healthy person is not even contemplating their methylation pathway.

          Whether it is the methylation pathway, or something else…..there is rush to think that it is so easy and people get high off of grasping a few concepts and running with it. Skipping over the rest. Ben Lynch also often asks too much money for the information he shares which is a major turn off. Especially since most of the folk are seriously impaired by their illness. I became more confused by his site than informed…..and strayed away from his site based on the points i made earlier. I no longer felt safe….because he wasn’t addressing folks like me.

        • Jason July 19, 2015 at 3:06 pm

          I’m not sure on what basis Niacin even negates the effect as he never went into the “why” (although he likely does elsewhere). You certainly having me doubting him as a consistent source for info, since you are experienced in this ‘field’ was there another good comprehensive reliable website you found somewhere you can recommend? I’ve found some others but nothing fitting the description I just gave, his was the most comprehensive I found.

        • Rene July 20, 2015 at 3:22 pm

          You can read endless stuff out there, but where I zeroed in was the work of Amy Yasko. Because she has dedicated her life’s work to this and is heavy on research based science. Her work with the adult and child population that suffers with chronic neurological inflammation and very ill sickly patients. The e books and webinars are all free. Written material is written in a manner that is user friendly for individuals, and parents of children struggling with the spectrum of chronic health problems. Autism became her focus after seeing the overlap from the adult population into the autistic group…..methylation issues that have been exacerbated due to pathogenic, toxic, heavy metal, vaccinations,..etc.

          No quick fix, but the potential for foundational improvements and quality of life. God Bless her and the heart she has for sharing and educating with a charitable and humble spirit. Very thoughtful, and cautious and detailed. The community is awesome.

          Just take your raw data and upload onto MTHFR site for $30 bucks and then use that data for studying your SNP’s based on Yasko’s work. Pathway to Recovery is solid, and the webinars are too. You will need months to get a handle on things….but you appear to me to be an excellent candidate for just this kind of thing….in that you will enjoy it. I did, and do.
          Very rewarding to learn, and discover… Not every gene listed in the Methylation pathway will be addressed. The Key players will be what Yasko focus on till further research opens the door wider.

        • Jason July 20, 2015 at 8:21 pm

          Thanks Rene. I was already on her site as well and did lots of reading and copying and pasting into Word Documents for potential future use. I’ve actually learned a ton already, and won’t go deeper until I need to when have my own test results to reference. Pretty sure I will do the test, but money is very tight for me ATM

          I also downloaded her book: Autism: Pathways to Recovery and the accompanying workbook as well which are VERY comprehensive indeed. She gives these away if you buy her $500 test (from the Holistic Health site where her site links too, same place as where I got the hair metal/mineral test from), but they also seem to be freely given away on the Internet in a few places, at least that is where I found them.

          I also found a few more documents and case studies from her as well which I also downloaded and added to my library. some were done with Nancy Mulligan. One was “Application of the Yasko Protocol for treating Chronic Fatugue”. There are several popular “Protocols” out there for Methylation (as you say no one size fits all) and after some searching I was happy to also find one from her.

        • Rene July 20, 2015 at 10:48 pm

          Then you surely see, the difference between her work and Lynch who has contributed…but not designed with the same details and caution, and science. Send yourself an email with the attachment of the E book and then have it printed with (paper that has holes for binder) at your local print/copier location. I put mine in a 3 hole binder and than highlighted my SNP’s and used tabs to mark area that would be needed for repeat reference. Her latest E book is excellent too. Pathways is a blessing that has been so helpful for so many families, and we all appreciate her work so much.

        • Jason July 21, 2015 at 8:36 am

          Well I’m sure I haven’t done no where near the reading or poking around you have on this subject but I know quality work when I see it and I made sure I got everything I could from Yasko when I discovered her. I can see that you have learned a lot from her as many of the things you post about would seem to come from that book, and what a great book indeed! (i’ve only skim read if so far but WOW it ties so many important things together and really flushes a few out, awesome book)

          Rene I haven’t fully read the book or her work, and I have a Niece with Autism with unfortunately somewhat pig-headed parents (If I told you her diet you would hit the roof). Do you think this is almost a definitive work on Autism?(from what I can see it has to be one of them, and definitely as you say would seem to be on Methylation for sure) Do any/many/most? of the people that apply the principles see vast improvement, and/or even put Autism behind them? There are many many theories out there on Autism and just as many protocols and strategies to treat it, I’ve sent my Brother a lot of info over the last 3 years but I think it falls mostly on deaf ears. Any insight you can give on this appreciated thanks.

          One more question too if I could, the thing I have not done much reading on at all is on the specific SNP’s and Genes etc. Is the test from 123andme good enough for a person with Autism? (it would seem not going through the book) Good enough for the average person? A Floxie? I sent some specific questions regarding this to 123 and instead of answering them they want me to set up a demo account and look at an example test result (which will help but possibly not even answer all my questions since that person could obviously be different than me or my Niece. I’ve often thought much of my own 30 years of Brain Fog was from Neural Inflammation (among other things there are multiple conformed causes at this point) and though I have done a lot to potentially combat it, it would seem if true getting a good gene test could definitely help

        • Rene July 21, 2015 at 12:47 pm

          Hi Jason,
          I fully understand the dilemma of wanting to share valuable information with someone that has the potential to open up possibilities for improving someone’s health and quality of life….and knowing all too well that the person cannot hear or see the value in the information.

          It is heartbreaking, and gut wrenching for me. I sometimes feel like Florence Nightingale….I want to help everyone, and then I realize that there is a big divide between my outlook, and understanding and experience and others mind set about health, medicine. So, I am mindful to keep things very simple and brief. Also, I cant speak on anything that I don’t have experience or understanding about myself.

          My recommendation, is to get acquainted yourself first with yasko’s work….and then you will have a better idea about how to introduce the concept. Yes, indeed there are many many children that have benefited from this work/protocol. It is comprehensive in ways that nothing can compare. The other avenues to take are simpler but not necessarily enough. It is a family affair, and takes a steady hands on approach with specific supplements, at very low doses that are implemented one at a time. At first, the idea can make your head spin, but then you come to understand that it is a process and it is over several months, 1-2 years. Improvements slowly….these children return to school, make eye contact, temperament calmer, speech improved. Diet is important and therefore likely a loosing battle for parents and their children that don’t see it that way. Gluten, dairy, processed foods, sugar, corn, soy. The usual suspects. Grains.

          Yasko forum is really helpful, becuase you have all these seasoned veteran parents guiding other parents and offering insights and valuable information. The testing from 23andme is used by most and not an issue. However, if a person elects to use blood testing Yasko has her thoughts about that too. Both are used routinely. Don’t bother w/ 23andme for your needs other than getting the raw data. It absolutely adequate for both you and a child. Everyone! Finally something for all no matter your condition. Genes are forever, function can be improved, or made worse. Uploading your raw data to MTHFR support will extract additional genes in the methylation pathway that you may not retrieve from genetic genie. So that is a nice way to bypass that short coming of genetic genie which is a great tool too. Then when you have your SNP’s and your urine testing done that will tell you what needs to be addressed first. Always, glutamate & Gaba are 1st priority and the CBS gene. Once that foundational ground work has been established then methyl donors may be added in specific forms, at low low dosages. Layering, layering, light layering of bio nutrients. Brain fog is often an likely an issue of gut. The 2nd brain remember. The brain mirrors the gut in some respects.

        • Jason July 21, 2015 at 2:27 pm

          Rene THANK YOU for answering so many questions, I always value your opinions and here especially where I think you have “Specialized” :)

          Okay only one more…. hehe

          I seen you mention this before: “Uploading your raw data to MTHFR support”

          Could you please link the exact site you are recommending and mention the cost? There looks to be more than one possibility that closely fits this description.

          God speed to you!

          p.s. I did a boatload of Yasko reading today, yeah, very doubtful anyone else has gone this deep, jeepers, I don’t know how the average person could ever get a handle on it. Poor Parents. Makes me even more angry we have these problems in the first place since the causes of all these Diseases gets more and more obvious the more you learn. (I always hated the Government even as a teenager)

          p.s.s Gut critical and 2nd brain indeed. I did so much here like aggressively killing Candida, Leaky Gut, Enzymes, etc and had some temporary success but there is unfortunately for me, so much more going on :(

        • Rene July 21, 2015 at 5:39 pm


          Register first. Then you can get your report for $30. Then you can use “that report” to enter the SNP data into Yasko’s site…which will generate a nice program outlining the many options or possible candidates to implement for supports……the urine analysis and the “pathway to recovery” and the forum are your tools for that point forward. Along with whomever you may decide to oversee your progress. Mullan is qualified.

        • Rene July 21, 2015 at 6:41 pm

          Gut issues that tie into all the other issues of Energy, Cognition, Nourishment, Digestion, Brain Health….and then you have Monsanto.

          The vote for Labeling GMO is being decided NOW….these are the last days to stop the DARK act from passing.


        • Jason July 21, 2015 at 10:47 pm

          I just skim read her new book Feel Good Biochemistry (have to say I was shocked she ignored Fluoride in drinking water analysis, ooops [seems she has not written about any of the Halides only Metals mostly, and I guess we have to remember that the Whole World wasn’t stupid enough to allow toxic waste to be dumped into water] She does stress the importance of Iodine though, so that somewhat counters that…. :) ). This book shows one reason why I complain so much about Medical Doctors, Western Medicine etc. They fall oh so short (for me near useless unless you have a failing organ), are close-minded, and sadly today all geared towards money and not true health and in fact can often make you more sick, as we all know here only too well

          The many very important basic tests in this book (Okay there are some more specialized ones there that most wouldn’t need, but there are many more basic useful ones too not even there like Live Blood Cell Analysis, great insight) which I’ve wanted for years (but damn $$$, just did a couple in Mexico in June as were less there and Pops helped pay!) and crucial insights into someone’s health (NOT the lousy limited blood test the Doctor’s always do) can be pivotal into investigating Diseases, Malaises, etc and yet we are forced to go to frowned upon Naturalpaths (who along with the tests show up on BP Propaganda sites like Quackwatch and many more to discourage people) and pay thousands and thousands of dollars if we want these tests. Many don’t even know about them at all to make things worse and thus stumble from Doctor to Doctor never getting to the root of their issues and in many cases only get treated for the symptoms with pills, which actually create more issues sending the person on a downward spiral (Yes I am one of the millions of bitter victims here).

          Government, Food/Water and Medicine, the real trilogy of a clusterf*** that is undermining us all and those we love, thus 3 of my biggest pet peeves and sources of anger and frustration

          Anyway another great book indeed

        • Rene July 22, 2015 at 1:51 pm

          Yes. The trifecta of greed….But God is good all day, every day.
          I had a very contentious appointment w/ a doctor at Kaiser recently. I played possum while the doctor arrogantly challenged, and combated any thing I said, or asked. Once you know who is talking to you, it is clear that the discussion is pointless. I noticed that I was quickly pegged as trouble, because I was asked what I do for a living. That is code for why do you sound intelligent and then the doctor asserts a dominance that is pretty alarming and showed “that spirit” that is dwelling in her. It is one thing to just not know, and be narrow minded. It is entirely another when the person tries to demean you, insult you in such a way that is so transparent that they may as well have a sign on the forehead that says: ” I worship the devil and I enjoy messing w/you”

          This doctor told me she would sent me to the wolves. I answered,incredulously, do you not mean sheep? Part of me is laughing but Thinking oh my goodness (is she really talking that crazy, did that just slip out) There are a few other remarks that she made that were so bizarre….that I just knew that she was walking in that spirit of hate. In all my years, that was one of the most bizarre. I looked her straight in the eye and I think she bristled because she recognized that I could see her. People don’t like that when they aren’t right…meaning their crooked. Most healthy minded, loving people appreciate being seen. But when a person is foul and someone is looking at them they squirm and then the fangs come out. I am sure she never wants to see me again. And she wont.

        • Jason July 22, 2015 at 9:59 am

          Rene curious about your thoughts on this “new” video (called it new in email, posted 2 years ago) Ben put out if you have watched it at some point or if you’re curious enough to watch it, or just the “Methyl trapping” part at the 42 minute mark.

          Here is an outline of vid:

          03:25 – What is folate?
          05:40 – Functions of folate
          08:00 – Does Folic Acid = Folate?
          09:25 – What’s the difference between Folic Acid and methylfolate?
          11:08 – How does Folic Acid get converted to methylfolate?
          13:23 – Recap
          14:58 – Coconut crab break
          15:28 – What is MTHFR and why do we care about it?
          18:27 – What are MTHFR SNPs?
          20:35 – How much loss of function is there with MTHFR SNPs? Does a single gene mutation mean disease is inevitable?
          24:10 – What happens with decreased MTHFR activity?
          27:35 – Just some of the conditions caused by MTHFR defects…there are a lot!
          31:00 – Which ethnic groups are most at risk for MTHFR mutations?
          34:14 – How do you test for MTHFR? What are the warning signs that I should be tested?
          38:28 – What does a sample MTHFR lab test look like? Why just test with MTHFR? Why not just treat with methylfolate?
          41:00 – I’ve tested positive for MTHFR…now what? Just supplement with L-5-MTHF?
          42:20 – What is methyl trapping?
          45:20 – Why is stomach acid important for folate absorption?
          46:50 – How do you maximize folate and B12 absorption?
          49:30 – What happens if you take too much folic acid from fortified foods?
          51:48 – Are you eating way too much folic acid?
          52:28 – How do you know you are eating too much folic acid or taking too much L-5-MTHF?
          54:00 – Exactly what does “normal” mean on a lab test anyway?
          55:38 – Common drugs to avoid with MTHFR
          59:20 – Why you CANNOT use Nitrous Oxide if you have an MTHFR mutation.
          1:02:55 – Common prescription medications used for MTHFR mutations and which ones are best and which ones could be hurting you
          1:04:36 – Which forms of methylfolate should you take for MTHFR mutations? Are you taking the right racemic blend?
          1:06:00 – Which primary nutrients support MTHFR?
          1:11:39 – How should I start supplementation and how do I know if it is working?
          1:13:45 – What are common side effects of methylfolate?
          1:14:05 – How should I deal with side effects of methylfolate?
          1:14:40 – What if I have zero tolerance to methylcobalamin and/or methylfolate? Could I have the mutation and feel absolutely fine?
          1:17:00 – How does high dose folic acid affect the SAM:SAH ratio?
          1:18:18 – So what is the good news? Is there good news? Hint – yes!


          I have not watched it all yet, seems like a good info on Folate Metabolism and MTHFR but I was doing more poking around and do see what you mean now after having done more reading of Yasko and looking more at his work. It would seem he is mostly just rehashing what Yasko has already laid the groundwork for (and as you point out trying to make money from it), but not always as cautious a manner as you pointed out.

          Even this “Methyl trapping” which is the part I was the most curious about and I think he says HE came up with (has been working on all this for 12 years etc he mentions), I’m not sure is actually a new concept introduced? The adverse reaction is well established, I just quickly went over that part in video and it seems he is saying taking the right B12 will potentially eliminate what he calls Methyl trapping ie an adverse reaction in SOME people. There is more to it and I think he acknowledges this, I’m just curious if this is a new concept and not already in Amy’s book and is he actually does his own research and studies or not.

        • Rene July 22, 2015 at 12:13 pm

          Uh….I cant look at his stuff too much….becuase it just confused me to no end….and I am glad you notice what I noticed….becuase jeesh….there is too much wrong mixed in with so much that is right that makes me have Scoobie Doo moments that leave me none the wiser or more informed. A Scoobie Doo headache. Yasko’s work is deep but so well communicated and respectful of the population she is addressing. Mom’s and Dads, kids, teenagers, adults trying to make their way. I think Lynch knows a lot….but my sense is that his ego has gotten in the way….and his enthusiasm, is real but a big gulp of humble pie would go a long way. Too many people want to claim credit….instead of just celebrating the blessing.

          I’ll listen/watch it when I have time.

        • Rene July 22, 2015 at 2:27 pm

          Another thing Lynch does is suggest testing of CBS and other genes “if” MTHFR supports have not worked. That should not be done after the fact. Well, if you want to eliminate risk of serious adverse reactions to just giving active folate….and the wrong dosage….than get the whole methylation pathway! Start from the best available vantage point. If that is over his head to be able to address those SNP’s than best stay out of the game. Let the hands on science that is being pioneered speak for itself and learn. This is how people try to carve out territory for themselves by taking the science and doing there own version. Well much can be learned in the field to advance this forward, but the code of ethics must be preserved to not exaggerate one’s understanding, or boast of credit for others work.

        • Rene July 22, 2015 at 9:58 pm

          Depending on your SNP’s methylcobalamin can be difficult….too much of a good thing….therefore Hydroxycobalamin and or adenosylcobalamin are the better choice till things are more balanced then at the appropriate time adding methylcobalamin at low dosages. Of course this is after the gabba/glutamate balance and CBS have been addressed adequately if necessary for the individual. I do not believe that there is anything that Lynch is adding as far as discoveries. Yasko is the pioneer from what I can tell when I began studying this 4 years ago. Lynch has been expanding his website and things to purchase a lot in the last 2 years. I feel confident in that is how it has appeared to me.

        • Jason July 22, 2015 at 10:12 am

          Here is what he said in email: “I created something for you which took a significant amount of time – let’s say about 12 years of schooling and research. I explain my recent key findings about folate metabolism, how MTHFR support can increase CBS activity”

          I suppose he doesn’t have to disclose exactly how or where he came up with these findings…. lol

        • Rene July 22, 2015 at 12:01 pm

          Increasing CBS activity is not a good thing when you have a CBS SNP. When you have a CBS snp that means it is overactive…..and therefore adding methylation supports before addressing it will just increase that CBS activity more so…and more good stuff is dumped rather than being utilized effectively where it belongs.

          That is a weird email. Was written to “you” directly?

        • Jason July 22, 2015 at 11:04 am

          Okay one more thing on this then we have to stop or I’ll never get anything else done! :)

          I found some interesting comments:

          “I’m a Western trained German MD, yet work in alternative, orthomolecular healthcare in Sedona, AZ. I work consistently with Yasko’s test on methylation cycle issues my patients have. She provides the only test that gives a comprehensive roadmap and takes the guessing out of other cycles that tie into the folate and neurotransmitter cycle. The $495 her test costs are absolutely worth it. The severity of symptoms some of my patients have do not give much leeway for experiments with MTHF only. Yasko’s test provides accurate data as to how the transsulfuration pathway and the methionine cycle work, how BH4 (neurotransmitter) cycle, MAO A and COMT, and urea cycle are performing. I wished Genova Diagnostics Detoxigenomic Phase 2 test would be added, but you can’t have everything! : ) I think you should mention Yasko’s test on your website, it has the highest quality, 23andme does not provide the same, their SNP’s do not -provide the coherence “roadmap” Yasko delivers.


          …this is a link to Dr. Roberts’, the “Heartfixer’s”, website. He covers methylation cycle, MTHFR impairment and a very important aspect that I do not find as thoroughly dealt with by Yasko: the sulfate and sulfite “high” patient.
          Btw I lately had a patient submit her 23andme generated test results that she filtered through a website called Genetic Genie which allows to take 23andme results and filter them to present most SNPs tested by Yasko and most SNPs tested by Genova Detoxigenomic test. With 23andme NOS though is missing which is an important enzyme to understand mostly in people with high inflammation and lipid metabolism disturbance, and SOD1 SNPs are missing in comparison to Genova Detoxigenomic’s Test… maybe others, those stood out to me.”


          That link he shared has a LOT of info, its basically like a whole book and links to a couple of large pdfs just a little ways down too, I’ve only taken a quick look so far but it seems Dr. Roberts IS trying to do his own research, and the comments above noting it covers “a very important aspect that I do not find as thoroughly dealt with by Yasko: the sulfate and sulfite “high” patient” would seem to confirm this. (I also noticed in one spot Roberts acknowledges Yasko as the brain behind Methylation so it would seem he is not just going to rehash everything given that)

          Anyway I just wanted to share in case you never came across it before and were interested, especially given your adverse effects to sulfur (I’ve noticed for at least now that either raw Garlic or Onions [not sure which yet or both] make me very tired after ie Brain Fog, not sure why yet there could be a few different reasons though)

        • Rene July 22, 2015 at 11:57 am

          Hi Jason,
          I am aware of Heart fixer and found it to be respectful of yasko’s research. The issues with the genes that are so called missing from 23andme…Yasko looks at the functional urine tests for insight into those issues if they are not included. It is not a deal breaker. So many folks cannot afford $495 for the test and the $400+ for the UAA /UTM/ UEE tests as well. Then the supplements. If you can afford the blood test through Holistic Heal….then great.

          BUT If not, 23andme for $99 is used all the time. The reason that I suggested that you run your “raw data” through MTHFR support is that it “will extract additional genes” in the pathway that genetic genie will not….NOS, SHMT, SOD. I don’t think a lot of people have figured this out….but voila, I was able to get a thorough report. It also showed that I have SNP for celiac…..which I am looking into only now. 2 years of painful inflammation in my gut, whenever exposed to gluten,…and possibly effecting my kidneys….has me concerned and needing to follow up with more information since it is has become life altering. Always have been sensitive to wheat….but this has worsened and may have developed after Cipro? God is good so no doubt, the clarity and healing will be.

          So, what appears to not exist after using genetic genie….actually is made evident when your raw data from 23andme is run through the more comprehensive option that MTHFR support offers for $30.

          What is the name of the Arizona, German doctor?

        • Jason July 23, 2015 at 8:21 am

          Hi Rene. Your Doctor appt is a sad story but you wrote it with such great humor and it was all too familiar for me that I was laughing out loud several times while reading!

          I’m pretty hard on Doctor’s and the Med system, and though they mostly deserve my criticism and everything I say is true (after all they have almost never helped me in the last 30 years and most definitely ruined my health several times) there ARE good Doctor’s out there. They must be like 1 in 40, I know I seen at least 40 and never found one, but I’ve heard from people and read stories where they actually help instead of harm, and once in awhile you actually find a caring Human instead of someone with $$ in their eyes. So I acknowledge they do exist, but I stand by all my other statements.

          My current “Doctor” is smart, but no where near as smart as he thinks. He knows I am basically my own Doctor for most things and does not try to dissuade me from that, and also knows I am there for the “limited” use they have as I am a big proponent of dealing with and healing the body Naturally. I often challenge things he says, and he’ll usually be able to answer and does so in stride, even if some of the answers are more “justifications”. So, we have this basic understanding, which is good, my problem here in Canada besides the usual complaints I’ve already made elsewhere, is trying to get him to do tests is like pulling teeth, he (and others are similar in this regard) acts as though its his money. Now I know the Government has basically mandated them to do as little tests as possible, and understandable so (though we DO pay for this sh*t service now, not free for many years already) but when someone has been suffering for 30 years from Brain Fog, there are a great many tests that can be done, like Thyroid hello?? Hormones, Candida, Metal Toxicity, the list goes on. He has never suggested (nor have others) getting any of these kinds of tests, I had to beg for basic Thyroid, which is NOT a true gauge you need the whole picture not just TSH, so when in Mexico I got total and free T3 & T4 done, a bunch of Hormones and had to PAY FOR IT! Stupid #*^**#*(^# Sorry, I just get so angry, I want to sue the pants off the Medical System for the last 30 years of my life they ruined and I’ll never get back, existing like a Zombie instead of truly living, all because their closed minded incompetent system and unwillingness or lack of intelligence to do proper testing. (not to mention the drugs like Nexium, Avelox and more that have physically damaged me over the years too) Anyway enough about that….

          I did not notice Arrogance in Ben necessarily but did get an overall sense he was trying to justify “his work”, and I guess praise it at times in doing so. I think its a bit of a defense mechanism likely from being criticized too many times over the years which I’m sure one of which must have been riding the coattails of others, namely Amy. I have done no where near the poking around you have as mentioned but I did witness one such thread right on his website, where a “troll” was basically attacking him, even brought up the laughable and despicable Quackwatch, and yet he kept finding it necessary to defend himself and his work (most would have ignored such an obvious idiot) That email he sent was a newsletter (I think I entered my email to download something and now get letters even though I never confirmed a subscription, I’m ok with it for now being a newbie on the subject) so the “You” there is sort of a “collective you”. At any rate looks like we have him pegged…

          Here is the website of the German Doctor, Karen von Merveldt-Guevara http://www.harmoniamundi.info/
          Quote “We provide Medical Healing and Health Consulting in a convergence of Western Medicine and Ancient Healing Traditions.” Nice to see open-mindedness,
          It’s in English and I took a quick browse through and was impressed enough to bookmark it for further reading and viewing (many videos there also English)

          What sparked my Interest in the Heartfixer info was that one statement from the German Doctor as mentioned, I definitely want to explore that info when I get a chance. I have a whole new respect for all things German after working for a German company 3 years and going there a few times (ah Bavaria, I miss you…)

          The 23andme is currently $220 with shipping for me (99 would be no-brainer) so I’m trying to make an informed decision on it vs some others, but I know one thing I can NOT afford the $500 for Yaskos (which I think would be a great test IF you need to dig deeper after 23andme since it zeros in on Meth Cycle) because that is USD and right now that is about $670CDN. Rene one last question if you read this far, you obviously feel the CBS is a critical Gene to have reported, do you know if 23andme reports on it? I’ve asked them about this and some others (from a 2nd email account, since they dodged question from my regular email account) and not sure they will specifically answer this, I’m hoping so. I can tell you 23andme is “booming”, the whole MTHFR thing and Gene testing is really starting to garner a lot of attention, I emailed 23andme just over a week ago and got a ticket number, my last email had a ticket number 3000 higher, wow, business must be good.

        • Linda Livingston July 23, 2015 at 9:20 am

          Well, glad there are some praise-worthy things happening in Germany….still can never make up for what Bayer has done….

        • Rene July 23, 2015 at 11:37 am

          Hi Jason,
          I have sought any answers to questions from 23andme. I only used it for obtaining my raw data. I am sorry to hear that the cost is double for you in Canada? Unfair. I have as the majority of others used them so that I could use that raw data to get my SNP’s for the methylation pathway….not an issue. The CBS gene is as all the others going to be included in the raw data. the 23andme test is used a lot by people following Yasko’s work. The CBS gene is a prominent part of Yasko’s research and experience in that she has found that it is a 1st priority to a) know if there is an existing SNP and which one or ones. b) what are the urine functional tests saying . Then it is determined how to proceed. So it is a part of STEP ONE. This is not me saying it is important, this is what yasko’s work with thousands of families has concluded. This is one of her many recommendations to circumvent issues that are likely to arise without addressing this first.

        • Jason July 23, 2015 at 10:28 am

          Haven’t you heard of the “Bomb your enemies mail service”? I’m surprised you have not utilized this yet and wiped Bayer out….. LOL I kid Yes, another bad corp :(

        • Jason July 23, 2015 at 11:18 pm

          I hate to post about this again but 23andme avoided my direct questions again (How hard can it be to tell me whether 5 or 6 Genes are reported on, sheesh)

          So I went ahead and set up the demo account as they advised. In the demo, you have access to about 6 fake? family members raw data. When logged in, you can search through ALL of their raw data collectively, and you can search for specific things like MTHFR, COMT, A1298C, rs1799983 etc.

          So they report on over 600,000 SNP’s, impressive (this # use to be even bigger like 900,000). HOWEVER, only a “subset” of them are verified for accuracy. I asked now from both email accounts too, “just how accurate are the ones NOT reported on or validated”, and they have of course dodged the question both times. They have said the ones that are in the health report (not available in USA, this is where they tell you your risks for Dementia etc etc) are 98% accurate, and then all others not in this report under-go a “chip-wide review” but only a subset are actually validated. I sent them one more reply trying to find out the potential accuracy and just how many are actually verified. Since they keep stressing that anything not in the Health Report (thus definitely verified) is NOT meant to be used for health/medical purposes, and is there for entertainment purposes only, etc etc that only a small subset is likely further verified beyond the chip-wide review and the accuracy of those that are not is likely highly questionable. This led me to ask if they report on WHICH ones are actually verified (they will likely dodge this question because they don’t want to admit the # is small). So far, they are not very transparent, its a highly complex subject and science, but for Pete’s sake put some info on your website and maybe you would not have 3000 people emailing questions per week (and of course I told them so! :) )

          So I have done a bunch of searching for “want to know if present” items, and so far most seem to be there. Here are a bunch that look of interest:


          Notice the goofy Quackwatch reference, and others, what a laugh. Anyway it looks like a good list, so I searched most of them in the demo account. Here are the ones that did not show up:

          AHCY – rs819134 (other 2 are there)
          BHMT – rs585800 (other 2 are there)
          BHMT – rs617219 (other 2 are there)
          CBS – rs2298758 (the other 2 did)
          SUOX – neither from that list above, but 4 others are there
          MTRR – rs10380 (about 30 total but not this one)
          MTRR – rs2287780 (about 30 total but not this one)
          MTRR – rs2303080 (about 30 total but not this one)
          NOS3 – rs1799983 (but about 20 others are there)
          SHMT1 – rs1979277 (but 6 other ones were there)
          VDR – rs10735810 (about 40 total but not this one on Yasko’s list)

          So all others on that list are there, so it seems many of the main ones are there, but some are missing. Rene I want to try and flush out what you are saying in regards to the Genie, vs MTHFR support vs the actual raw data itself. Are you saying that putting the raw data might actually give you CBS – rs2298758? Or were you saying just basically you will get more data from the MTHFR site than the Genie site? I have a feeling if its not in the raw data, its just not there. So if someone really wants those you would have to do the Yasko test I guess. Anyway I am going to order the 23 test I think, there is just too much important info in there that could help me, but I do hope they shed some light on the accuracy.


          Just in case a Floxie is reading all this GENE stuff and wondering why we’ve spent so much time on this and how is it relevant to Cipro etc. Bottom line is if you have just a couple of these Gene Mutations and you do NOT address them, in my opinion your Floxie Journey is going to be a whole lot worse and a whole lot longer. (Which potentially goes towards explaining why some people have so much more trouble and suffer for so much longer for seemingly no reason, well this could be the reason)

        • Linda Livingston July 24, 2015 at 9:42 am

          I too had emailed with questions and while 23&me did reply promptly, the answers were not at all enlightening. Putting it on the back burner for now

        • Rene July 24, 2015 at 12:25 pm

          The 23andme test provided all the genes necessary….after I used MTHFR support it provided additional genes that were not extracted/included by Genetic Genie. The specific Genes that Yasko has studied and researched are are what I was able to derive from my raw data by running it through MTHFR Support. The only one missing is SUOX. And of a ton of genes that are not part of the research at this time.

          Don’t bother with 23andme for the questions you are asking. Get your raw data and the reports generated by MTHFR support.

      • Jason July 23, 2015 at 10:56 am Reply

        Here is a whole bunch more info on the “good” and “bad” vitamins, like the need to avoid synthetic isolates and much more:


        My wife and I are currently using his Multi.

  2. Rene July 16, 2015 at 11:09 am Reply


    Dirty politicians actively working to undermine public access to supplements…..likely becuase their pockets are lined with $$$$$$$ from Pharma.

    • Jason July 16, 2015 at 11:04 pm Reply

      Yes lots of very corrupt sh*t going on, that same dirtbag was in news a year ago too:


      As NaturalNews editor Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, reported about a year ago elected officials on the national level have also been “paid” by Big Pharma to go after alternative healers and health advocates.

      One such attack involved U.S. Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-MO., who launched broadsides at Dr. Oz for several health products he has endorsed. Come to find out, Adams reported, McCaskill had received some $146,000 in campaign donations from – you guessed it – Big Pharma.

      “According to campaign contribution data published at OpenSecrets.org, prescription drug mega-retailer Express Scripts gave McCaskill over $109,000 in campaign contributions, most of which was routed through lobbyist groups or PACs,” Adams reported.

      “Sen. McCaskill also accepted over $37,000 from Monsanto, widely regarded to be the most evil corporation in the world and an enemy of sustainable food production, heirloom seeds and traditional American farming methods,” he said.

      • Linda Livingston July 17, 2015 at 8:18 am Reply

        well, guess I’ll be writing to mcCaskill today…

      • Rene July 17, 2015 at 1:06 pm Reply

        Yes, I am very aware of this man and who he worships: $$$$$$$

        • Jason July 17, 2015 at 3:46 pm

          Actually its a Woman!

        • Rene July 18, 2015 at 12:29 pm

          Oh…must have been confused with the other wicked politician Mike “Pompeo” of Kansas who defends Monsanto.

        • Jason July 18, 2015 at 7:51 pm

          How about Hilary Clinton….. All these ‘supporters’ should put “their mouth with their money is” (hehe) and eat all GMO foods for a couple of years….

        • Rene July 18, 2015 at 11:50 pm

          yes, very dispaointing that Obama & H. Clinton support Monsanto and vice versa….so much for healthy foods for our kids that Michelle started out with…..she got silenced I guess.

        • Mark July 18, 2015 at 11:57 pm

          She got most likely silenced by a big pile of cash. lol Doesn’t matter which country you’re in if things go in the wrong direction you can bet your house that there’s money involved.


        • Rene July 19, 2015 at 11:51 am

          So very true! No nation has dibs on being greedier than another….as human nature is greedy. Which is why I believe humbling ourselves before God is vital to our health in all areas of our life. The nicest of us, are still naughty and that includes me…..humbling myself is required or I find myself as obnoxious as the others that I complain about. Never mind everyone else….It’s me who needs to keep in line with God’s ways not mine.

          Glad you enjoyed the John Oliver commentary. I dont have HBO but YouTube and his website allow me to enjoy a good laugh and Lord knows how much that is appreciated.

  3. Jodi July 16, 2015 at 8:51 pm Reply

    I am a 49 year-old woman who was floxed in 2013. I was given 2 rounds of Cipro and 1 of Levaquin in a 6 month period, I was hit hard during the second round, and the Levaquin really did me in. After, I was riding the rolling coaster — as soon as I would start to feel better and think maybe I was out of the woods, I would crash again. Mostly a lot of pain in my achilles tendons and hamstrings. Skin itchy and suddenly weird spots everywhere — dermatologist just said it was my age, but why all of a sudden? Tinitus, extremely low energy, brain fog, dizziness, vision seemed to be getting worse, exercise intolerance (just getting my heart rate up a little would turn my face bright red and I’d feel like I was going to faint.) Chronic diarrhea — made worse by taking so many supplements — especially magnesium — to try to get better. My doctor would acknowledge it, but she had no idea what to do, My naturopathic doctor was focused on fixing the things that caused me to take the fluorquinolones to begin with. She also acknowledged that they were bad, and hoped the liver support, hormonal support, etc. that she was giving me for my chronic UTIs would help with this also,

    Reading a lot of what people have written on the internet, I started taking lots of supplements — nothing particularly different about my regimen than what others have posted. The magnesium threonate is definitely easier on the stomach. I also take Great Lakes Gelatin Collagen Hydrolysate which seemed to help a lot with connective tissue.

    I would have highs and lows, but as time dragged on, I was feeling less and less sure about my ability to continue to work. I was beginning to think about going on disability so I could just focus on my health.

    Then two things happened. I read a post that really helped me connect the symptoms to the mitochondrial DNA damage which leads to too many free radicals and oxidative stress. Stress also makes this worse, including the stress from having all these side effects from the FQs., So I started focusing on antioxidants, sleep and keeping stress levels low — even the stress that I felt like was “no big deal”.

    The next thing that happened was I discovered EFT (Tapping). I saw someone else here mentioned that and I wanted to second it. I had been looking into it actually for other people in my family for their anxiety and chronic pain issues. Then, I woke up one morning with a horrible migraine and was desperate for fast relief because I had a lot going on that day. I decided to try tapping (a bit skeptical, I must say) and after about 15 minutes, my migraine was GONE! I was completely amazed and honestly didn’t think it would work. I told my son about it, and he told me he was having pain in his leg from where he had knee surgery. I did it with him (this is the same morning) and he got some degree of relief, but two days later it was completely gone! I remember hearing that often, the real results occur two days later.

    I continued to tap throughout the week, at least once in the morning and before bed, Honestly, I try to remember to do it whenever I go to the bathroom — weird, I know, but hey, I’m just sitting there, alone…so why not make use of it? By the end of the week (and before, really –maybe even that day), I swear virtually every symptom I had was gone. The tendons, the extreme fatigue, the brain fog, dizziness, even my eyesight seemed better, more clear. I felt like myself again – and it is sticking.

    This was about a month ago, I keep tapping –on anything and everything I can possibly think of — and it helps a lot. I am becoming ever more aware of the relationship between our energetic body and stress and our physical and mental health. Something about tapping that uses basic techniques from psychology along with the energy meridian points from eastern medicine that is a winning combination –like a kill switch for stress. If you want AMAZING results, try tapping, You don’t have to believe in it for it to work (you just have to do it), and it takes about 15 minutes to learn how to do it. You can go see someone to help you do it, too. It is easy, you feel great pretty immediately, and you can use it for EVERYTHING — panic attacks, anxiety, work stress, weight loss, pain relief, relationships, grief, you name it,

    It sounds crazy, but it actually makes perfect sense. Our physical bodies, emotions, thoughts, and the energy system that connects everything are ONE thing devised of multiple, interconnected systems.. If you ignore the emotional and energetic parts of us, it triggers all kinds of feedback loops in our physical body. When you treat everything — this is the way of the ancient medicine practices–you can clear the past life events that still have an emotional hold on you and the stresses that keep you stuck and that your body is constantly reacting to, Our emotions and stress play a huge role in our body’s pain response.

    I’m not saying chuck everything else (however I have stopped taking my supplements this week and I still feel good). I’m just saying that this can neutralize a big cause of the stress that leads to the oxidative stress and all the symptoms we experience and especially the pain. Best of luck to everyone.

    • Linda Livingston July 16, 2015 at 9:11 pm Reply

      We had a lot of similar symtoms Jodi, (and my doctors also said—especially the eye stuff—was age, even though my eyes had been great the week before. Interesting you should mention tapping though. I found an integrative cardiologist (Harvard trained) who wrote a book on heart health, and she mentions tapping in it! I don’t have pain anymore, just other lingering side effects, but I do have tapping on my “to do/ to learn” list.

    • Jason July 16, 2015 at 11:22 pm Reply

      Great story, glad you found some things that worked, Antioxidants helped me a lot for sure

      Elizabeth mentioned EFT a couple of pages back, I’ve looked into it but it didn’t seem all that convincing or promising for my non-Cipro stuff like Brain Fog etc (even though Mercola is a HUGE advocate too). However, given you are now the 2nd person who is swearing by it, and given what you recovered from, you tipped me off the fence enough to try it. Thanks for sharing

      • Rene July 17, 2015 at 1:02 pm Reply

        Hi Jason,
        I have tried EFT with a EFT practitioner…and it was very helpful. I applied to the trauma of being invalidated by family members who did not believe that my injuries were as devastating as they were. It really very gently helped lift the energetic charge of those burdens on me…..,but my faith in God was the foundation underling that.

        God Bless,

        • Jason July 17, 2015 at 3:58 pm

          Thanks Rene, I imagine faith could potentially make EFT even more effective, it’s interesting that it can even work without it, but then no one should ever doubt the powers of the mind. You can quite literally worry yourself sick, or help yourself to heal, just two small examples of its power.

      • Daniela July 17, 2015 at 4:38 pm Reply

        Where did you go in Mexico?

        • Jason July 17, 2015 at 6:27 pm

          Hi Daniela I think this was question for me. I was in Ajijic visiting Father, its one of two most popular retirement havens there, the other is San Miguel. Its a fairly nice little town on Lake Chapala, beautiful weather all year round (why so many love it as opposed to other parts), and really geared towards the “Gringos” with many restaurants serving NA dishes, stores selling imported favourites etc. The disappointing thing for me was the lake, not really suitable for swimming apparently, so beaches while had some people there, were not really for swimming :( I’m a big beach-goer, and have been to many other places in Mexico actually where I swam in all of them, just not here. Those “Healing Waters” kind of made up for though :)

        • Daniela July 18, 2015 at 8:13 am

          Hi Jason, Where are the aguas curativas?

        • Jason July 18, 2015 at 10:17 am

          Very close to town of Ajijic, which is about 45 minutes from Guadalajara. The place we went to is about 5 – 7 minutes away from Ajijic on the main road, going away from the town of Chapala (west from Ajijic). I can’t remember the name of the town unfortunately, I am pretty sure it is the next town you come to going down main road, and the Healing Waters is just off the main road right beside the Lake, so you get to take in the view while enjoying the rest of what this great place has to offer.

          Apparently there are many sites in Mexico similar, here is an interesting link I just found:


          The one we went to looks like the Motel Balneario in San Juan Cosala, Mexico. San Juan Cosala is very close to Ajijic so it must be the one.

          The cost to enter the “family side” of the facility was 200 pesos, here they have a few pools, activities for kids etc. Then for 120 pesos more, you could go to the “Spa” in that side, and this is where the healing hot tubs are etc. The entire Spa experience lasts about 2.5 to 3 hours, you get 15 minutes in each of 6 tubs, then the mudding, the breathing spouts and the 2 different steam rooms.

        • Daniela July 19, 2015 at 7:02 am

          Oh, there must be a lot of them because I was thinking you went to one near Mexico City or another one near Querétaro. Was it mainly sulphur baths?

        • Jason July 19, 2015 at 10:27 am

          No I wrote more on this on last page near bottom. Sulfur is the main component of almost all the therapies, because the ground water they use is very sulphur rich as I mentioned and they use this for almost everything, but there many other things they have going on here all for detoxing & healing the body:

          6 Specialty Hot tubs, 3 healing Breathing Steam vents, 2 Steam rooms, a healing river, mud therapy and they also offer for an extra fee: Very specific Massages and Traditional Facial Cleaning • Facial Cleaning (Fruit or Vegetable) • Full Body Wrap Treatment • Pedicure • Manicure.

          The hot tubs each had its own very specific healing properties, so on top of the very Sulphur-rich water they also put some other elements in the water to help detox and heal. I don’t remember all of them; one was Magnesium, one was apple and vinegar, one was oatmeal, one was many types of flowers and one had coffee grinds and 2 other things (avoid if you are a Floxie!).

          I don’t remember what each Steam vent had, but they were herb or flower based. So very warm/hot Sulphur rich steam was coming out of a “vent” and at the bottom of the vent you had different herbs/plants/flowers. One was Eucalyptus mixed with one other plant, for each vent you could put a towel over your head and over the vent and then just sit there and just breathe in this steam, very very good I could only imagine how much this would help someone with breathing issues, but I’m sure its good for everyone as well.

          The Steam rooms were similar to the vents in execution, only now your whole body is submersed in the steam and healing herbs/plants/flowers air, and of course you sweat and detox junk here similar to a Sauna, sweating is one of the bodies most efficient/best ways to detox, and would the “ultimate detox” if you did a deep tissue massage right before.

          At one point in the experience we also put mineral rich mud all over our whole body, then let it harden in sun for 10-15 minutes and then rinsed off. I’ve never felt my skin that soft it literally was just like Babies bottom, and the mud was said to help pull toxins from body too once again.

          I actually found the website for them, you can click on English at the bottom, there is a little more description and some great pictures too:


          “Deep Tissue Massage, Swedish Massage, Lymphatic Massage, Hawaiian Massage. Hot Stone Massage Is the application of water-heated basalt stones to key points on the body, giving a deep massage and creating sensations of comfort and warmth. The penetrating heat from the hot stones relaxes the muscles, which allows for deeper relaxation, when compared with regular massage therapy. Thai massage combines pressure-point massage and yoga in slow, rhythmic compressions and stretches along the body´s ten sen, or energy lines (loose comfortable clothing is required). Mud Massage, The Mud Therapy helps to detoxify the joints in your body by getting rid of toxins, and to reduce the stresses and strains of modern life as a consequence. It is also great way to revitalize your skin, and improve the overall look and feel.”

          “At the Termal Spa Tlalocan we combine the benefits of natural treatments with our thermal mineral waters. Submerge yourself in our various hydro-therapies:

          •Thalassotherapy (magnesium, sodium salts and seaweed)
•Fitotherpy (medicinal plants)
•Mineral Treated Mud
•Coffee therapy
•Therapy of the Day (This one changes everyday with different ingredients like wine, Jamaica Maguey extract or apple vinegar)
•Temazcal: Ancient Natural Steam Room
•Reflexology river (walk in this river to enjoy a relaxing experience for your feet)”

          This place was literally amazing, and you felt amazing afterwards, its honestly almost worth the trip to Mexico just to go here, I can’t wait to go back myself.

        • Jason July 19, 2015 at 10:37 am

          Oh look, the “Funeral Directors of America” once again helping to shut down true health! (surprise….not)


          Hot springs therapy became popular in the United States in the nineteenth century and reached a pinnacle in the United States in the 1940′s. During this brief hot springs era, doctors and resort owners, as well as an ever-enthusiastic general public, attributed many cures and health benefits to the use of therapeutic geothermally heated mineral waters. However, the hot springs movement did not last long enough to mature into a socio-cultural tradition which would have eventually resulted in formal research and medical acceptance. Furthermore, the FDA eventually stepped in and prohibited organizations from making unsubstantiated health claims concerning the medicinal value of natural mineral waters.

        • Daniela July 19, 2015 at 10:53 am

          Thanks for looking up the link to the location. In the meantime I was trying to find sulphur springs and the ones in the US seem to be mostly paved over! People probably complaining about the smell. Such a shame.

          Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, and even though it doesn’t have that sulphur smell, it is better than nothing I guess. I just melted some in a little water and smoothed the “oil” all over. Since you found benefits from sulphur, maybe switch back from mag cl for a while to extend the good feelings ;)

    • Rene July 17, 2015 at 1:11 pm Reply

      Wonderful Jodi…..you are so right, and no it is not crazy one bit.
      Prayer which has been ridiculed right out of people’s lives, and distorted and maligned as a form of begging to a man with a beard……has a profound affect on people’s lives, bring peace to the spirit. EFT is a technique though not spiritual effects the energy field too.

      God Bless,

  4. Peter July 18, 2015 at 12:41 am Reply

    I think I’m running out of hope these days. 25+ months now and each day ia worse than the last. Has anyone had extreme trouble breathing? I can breathe in for 4 seconds through the nose, but only 2 seconds out through the nose. It’s labored and I find myself completely focused on my breathing at night. It’s not natural.

    I’m also seen a dramatic increase in white hair all over my body, something I have never seen before.

    I’m not sure what to do anymore. It’s gone so far downhill since I first took the medicine. I’ve never had these issues.

    None of my other symptoms have improved yet either. It’s been a miserable few months lately and I dread life more and more. I joke about dying before I’m 30 a lot and I really believe it most days. I turned 29 in Feb.

    • Jason July 18, 2015 at 7:39 am Reply

      Hi Peter, so sorry to hear this. Don’t give up hope though! You have age on your side big time here, I know it doesn’t feel like it but its a big factor in your favour and should aid the healing process with some “help”.

      How is your diet? My Brother was not Floxed and he is falling apart due to diet so imagine what happens to a Floxed person not getting enough Nutrition. I really can’t stress diet enough, the body badly needs many things to function, and the “American Diet” or Western way of eating is a big reason why you see such much disease these days.

      I’m pretty sure a lot of my problems are from not eating properly from years 16 (left house) to 44 (I finally put my foot down at this age but even back then I was shorting myself on things like healthy fats). I never was a big fast food eater, but if you don’t eat enough Organic Veggies, Grass Fed Beef, and get enough “Healthy Fats”, and/or eat processed foods you are doing the equivalent of putting contaminated water into your car instead of gasoline, imagine how it would run…

      Diet is one of the most important things someone can do to heal from any malaise, and I believe it will help you too Peter. Mostly diet healed Terry Wahl from an incurable Disease, Multiple Sclerosis, she was in a wheel chair (and much older than you!), its a very dramatic story, you can see a summary of that here and what basics she recommends and why:

      The body is an amazing healer on all its own, but without the “tools” it needs it can not do its job properly. With Floxed people, we have had some of our functions downgraded, shut down, manipulated and overrun. Some of these are important functions that normally help us heal, this is one reason why in many cases I believe even more than just good diet is needed to help someone heal, at least if someone wants minimum damage done and to speed up the process. Please ask Lisa for my email, then email me and I will reply back with a very important book which I think can help you greatly if you apply its principles.

      • Daniela July 18, 2015 at 8:30 am Reply

        Note: Terry Wahl’s diet is the same as the Specific Carbohydrate Diet by Elaine Gotschall, Natasha Campbell McBride’s GAP diet….and any anti-inflammatory diet. It also matches up with the recommendations by Danish Health for girls injured by the Gardisil vaccine, and resembles autism and other diet guidelines.

        To make it even simpler, dairy and grains/starches are inflammatory. There is a tool that lists inflammation factors of all kinds of foods (almonds and dark green leafy vegetables are very anti-inflammatory). I used to have the link to the original site, but I can’t find it right now, though I have mentioned it here on Floxie Hope before.

        The Danish model is even simpler, because it imagines a plate of food. Just replace all the grain-based (and starchy) things on your plate (rice, spaghetti, etc) with green leafies.

        Guess what? Even though it seems like fresh vegetables are expensive, things like cabbage are still cheaper than anything else. A lot of people are really resistant to eating more veg and less bread for some reason, so you have to over that if it’s a problem for you.

        Honestly I don’t know why people would prefer a pill with side effects to eating green vegetables!

        Jason, if your bakery also includes Brazilian foods, ask what they make with “mandioca.”

        Peter, try eliminating dairy — it will probably clear up your problems.

        • SM July 18, 2015 at 4:21 pm

          How long do you believe one must explore a diet like this before noticing results? I did the paleo thing very early, between months 4-7, and didn’t really notice a difference. Now, at 25 months, I’m pondering giving it another shot.

    • Linda Livingston July 18, 2015 at 10:03 am Reply

      Peter—yes! I have had extreme breathing problems. Please do not give up hope. Now while I have had asthma all my life, these breathing problems were not lung related. (I could tell from using my peak flow meter.) The FLQ can damage ALL nervous systems, so it is possible that there is damage to the autonomic nervous system that controls breathing. Also, I discovered from this that I had pericardial effusion (fluid around the heart) that I did not have before. That could play into a bit. Finally, a pharmamceutical researcher suggested that it could also be caused by mitochondrial damage to the heart muscle, since Cipro and the like are known for destroying mitochondria.

      There was a period of time (about 2 months) when I felt like I was suffocating 24 hours a day. I could barely gasp for breath. It was horrifying, especially since I was 30 lbs down, could barely walk, and had a dozen other troubling symptoms. I went to 12 different MDs that were of NO health until I finally got the nerve to call a naturopath. I started IVs and within several months most of my other side effects are gone, and my breathing is far better.

      I will first say that given you have more trouble breathing out than in, it could possibly be asthma, but I had the same problem too. I could not maintain an exhalation. So let me tell you what has helped me. First, I was put in the position of no longer being able to use my inhaled steroids for asthma. I was really depressed, since I was already having these non-lung related breathing problems, I was so afraid of stopping my preventive asthma meds. What if I got asthma on top of all ready having trouble breathing? My ND started me on H2O2 IVs, which are great for clearing junk out of the lungs. But it also oxygenates all your cells. I was able to, over a month or so, wean myself off my asthma meds, which I have been on for DECADES. It has now been two months with no asthma meds, and so far no asthma attacks. I am still getting the H2O2 IVs for now and then will get them on a maintenance level after I finish.

      For my breathing issue, that again I believe was more nerve-related damage, I also have been getting Phosphatidylcholine IVs, with glutathione pushes after. I believe these have helped the most with nerve damage, and the phosph. also helps correct mitochondrial damage. I also get high dose vitamin C IVs and I am not sure what part they have played in the breathing thing, but they are great for rebuilding collagen that the FLQ s destroy.

      Please don’t give up hope. I understand where you are coming from because for those 6-8 weeks, when I quite literally felt like I was suffocating (to add insult to injury, nerve damage caused the nerves in my chest area and around my neck to push in, so it also felt like I was being choked and smothered) I really just wanted “out.” I don’t know how I made it through an hour like that let alone months. Do you have an ND? What area do you live in?

      • Daniela July 19, 2015 at 7:10 am Reply

        Linda and Peter, I had breathing problems after floxing — felt like I was breathing through a narrow straw. Three things helped me:
        No dairy, can’t stress that enough. Really no dairy whatsoever, not even little bits.
        Inhale sea salt. Just put some in a small bottle and inhale with each nostril. Even if the nostril is blocked, just stick with it, gently, and even if it seems to take forever, the salty air will help.
        Homeopathic allergy remedies for whatever you can figure out is setting you off. I was getting it from cats and ragweed. It might take a few months/years to determine what is the trigger. Homeopathic remedies work really well for allergies.

        Linda, I also had extreme smell sensitivity — and hearing sensitivity. I could, and still do, smell any little whiff of anything. And in the first year after floxing, I could not stand even the sound of a spoon touching a cup. I had to make the acupuncturist turn off the meditative music because the slight bass beat was jolting me like a rhythmic earthquake.

        I am over 5 years out, so it takes a long time, and I was given a lot more than many of you. Heavy IV and weeks and weeks oral while my doctor went on holiday ( he laughed afterwards, “Well, we’ve proven that antibiotics don’t help, hahaha!”) Good luck and try those things. Hope it helps :)

    • Rene July 18, 2015 at 12:45 pm Reply

      Hi Peter,
      I am upset that you are suffering like this….I am thinking that your autonomic nervous system is dis regulated. I have had Lyme disease for 16+ years and I had years of breathlessness, and unable to talk becuase of it. I was very weak…autonomic nervous system….sympathetic part of it. Anyhow, I suggest getting the “Lifewave” patch on line: Y-AGE Glutathione patch. It can be placed on “meridian point” that you choose from pamphlet. It is worth trying! It helped me enormously for many things. That would be very good for you. COQ10 Ubiquinol form also very important for you. Acupuncture may also be very helpful with Chinese herbs. Chinese doctor. Not western. If you have a china town area where you live that would be where to go.

      I had the same feelings as you, and being that weak is of course not easy to care for yourself. But you can, and I did too. Please go to Lifewave website and get the Y-age Glutathione patch. They ship all over the world, internationally. Use it daily, they deliver quickly too! God is great, and is always with us in our weakest hours and leaning on him to provide and care for our needs is the best medicine. If the patch supports you well enough to be mobile and seen by a Chinese doctor than that will help you a lot. I have had a lot of success with Chines Medicine. Safe, and gentle, yet powerful and healing.

      God Bless,

  5. Rene July 18, 2015 at 12:24 pm Reply

    Check out this commentary from John Oliver: Medical Doctors & Big Pharma buying them.

    • Linda Livingston July 18, 2015 at 12:59 pm Reply

      That’s terrific. (I wish he was taking over the Daily show.) Frighteningly funny. I sent Michelle Obama a letter this morning—think I will write one to Oliver now, in hopes he will revisit this.

  6. SM July 18, 2015 at 2:31 pm Reply

    I had about 4 days last week of very calm nerve pain. I’d say it was a 1-2 on a scale of 1-10. Came out of no where. It was wonderful! I still had that plantar fasciitis-like pain on the bottom of my feet when standing, but the obvious nerve stuff- the aching, the burning, the odd sensations- were all so mild. After 4 days, it’s all back to its normal place of cold aches and weird sensations and just indescribable pain that’s always there. It was wonderful to have those 4 days, but I’m now left wondering “What the hell just happened?!” It’s hard to know what might have precipitated a change when we have so much going on. My only thought, if there is an outside cause, is that I did a 50 gram vitamin C IV just 2 days prior. That’s weird too though because I dont think I felt better rifht away. So if it was the C, it took 36-48 hours to make a difference. I didn’t get an IV this week as my ND was out of town. I go back on Tuesday. Hoping. Even if it wasn’t the C, having those few days of feeling better gives me hope. I know of lots of recoveries that start out as a few hours of feeling better, then a few days, and so on.

    • tricia July 18, 2015 at 7:58 pm Reply

      I am going through the exact same thing. Have been feeling almost like my old self for a few weeks…..working my job, yoga, walking long distances, even jogging!!! Then this last week and a half , slowly but surely, all my old pain symptoms are returning….and almost worse this time because I’ve been feeling so great for so long!! :( Anyhow, maybe cycles and downturns are ( like what u had mentioned) part of the recovery process. Let’s hope!!! But those few wonderful breaks without pain are huge steps!!! If we get there once, I know we can get there again :)

    • Daniela July 19, 2015 at 6:54 am Reply

      SM, are you really sure you are having no dairy and no grain/starch? I had salad last night — there were a couple of curls of parmesan cheese. This morning, it was hard for me to pull the covers off until I warmed up by stretching.

      And yes, paleo is also an example of no dairy, no grain. But I would make sure you have MORE veg, rather than more meat as they typically do.

      • SM July 19, 2015 at 9:50 am Reply

        Daniela- I’m actually sure I’m not paleo. I used to be, for a time early on in floxing. I do now eat grains and dairy, seemingly without issue. In other words, eating them doesn’t worsen my situation immediately. Maybe I’m expecting it to affect me dramatically and immediately but it doesn’t work that way? And I are grains during that 4-5 day period when I felt really good. So for me there just isn’t a connection that I see or that I believe in. It’s tough to diet that way when you don’t believe it will change things. I did it before for several months and it didn’t relieve my pain at all. That was during the acute phase and maybe things would be different now…

        • Daniela July 19, 2015 at 10:43 am

          The change was dramatic for me, but only when it was strict avoidance of dairy and grains. Two curls of shaved parmesan on a salad just brought the pain back! There is a lot of hidden wheat in things; for example, powdered spices are mostly wheat.

          I didn’t try to eat this way until the third year years. My symptoms were so strong in the first three years so maybe that early on, I would not have noticed the effect either. I just came upon this by accident because I was too disabled to cook anything else. Then I saw how many people are writing books and setting up websites about the idea.

          It really makes sense because we need to optimise our vitamins and minerals — why waste the stomach space with grains? And people with rheumatoid arthritis recommend no dairy, so do that, too.

          I was really suprised by how sweet and delicious cooked cabbage is. And of course there are so many other green vegetables. They even have them ready cut and washed in the bag.

          Another idea for the summer months is stuffing them in a inexpensive blender with a banana, apple and water or watery fruits like peaches and melon. Don’t even need to cook!

        • SM July 19, 2015 at 12:47 pm

          Daniela- Thanks. Maybe I’ll try again soon. It’s kind of dumb not to. I feel I’d have to do grain and dairy free for a couple of months to see if it impacts me. I can’t imagine that trying it for a couple of weeks is enough. And I feel I’ve done that a lot in my floxing. I’ve tried things for short periods of time and then stopped. Then, looking back, I often wonder if I did that strategy justice. Right now I’m just trying to figure out the reason my nerves were so calm for 4-5 days. I have 3 ideas which I’m currently testing.

        • Daniela July 19, 2015 at 3:22 pm

          Hey SM, Just watch out for the odd cookie or bite of a cheese sandwich or ice cream. My experience has been that no grain no dairy really means absolutely none, no cheating. I hope it works for you :)

          On an analogous note, have you had any hidden caffeine (decaf coffee contains caffeine, for example) that you didn’t have those 4-5 days? Or better sleep? I can’t tolerate even a sip of decaf or I’ll shake and be awake all night. A friend of mine had insomnia even though she was drinking camomile tea, but I showed her that the box said it was black tea with camomile.

        • Daniela July 19, 2015 at 3:28 pm

          Oh, I just saw that your main complaint is nerve pain. For me, brain fog improved with no grains, pain improved with no dairy.
          I used to also cover my hands and feet with turmeric, but I don’t have to anymore.

        • SM July 19, 2015 at 7:07 pm

          Daniela- My main complaint is nerve-related pain. That’s my own diagnosis of course. And most of that pain is in my feet. I also have a PF-like pain in my heels when I’m on my feet. The neurologist doesn’t believe that is nerve related but who knows. So it appears I have two things going on. I’d take a little relief from either!

  7. Mike July 18, 2015 at 5:46 pm Reply

    Hysterical Rene. Nice post. I especially like the Dr. skit at the end…

    Don’t give up Peter. I’ve been where you are at. I’ve been battling this for years now. Some of it has gotten better… some things haven’t. Have hope. I have to make myself believe that some day it will get better in this lifetime. (I know someday it will all be better because of the promise in Revelation 21:14, the former things will pass away)

    One of the things that has gotten better for me was my heart issues. I was having crazy palpitations and feeling like my heart was jumping around and fibrillating, at least that is what it felt like, acccompanied by a feeling that I could just drop to my death at any minute. I even went to the ER by ambulance one day after exercising a bit as I was feeling like I was going to die. Even when I was in the ER I felt like it could be the end for me. They found nothing wrong with me, only low potassium that the Dr. felt could have attributed to my issues.

    This time last year I would just pray to God that I would make it to my wedding day which was last Sept 20th. That’s how bad it was for me.

    This feeling in my chest went on for quite sometime…. months and months. Then eventually….. it just went away. I’m hoping and praying that my other symptoms do the same. I’ve had people tell me that their FQ induced brainfog just went away one day out of nowhere … after being tormented by it for quite sometime.

    Be strong man. Don’t give up. Find other things to occupy your brainpower with than your condition. My belief is that time is the best healer for what we are going through. Try not to think about this stuff too much… distract yourself… otherwise you could just keep spiraling down into depression which I know from experience is a snowball effect type thing…

  8. Jason July 20, 2015 at 2:12 pm Reply

    This is a pretty good short little article that I think every Floxie could benefit from as there is a lot of good overall advice in there (found it trying to figure out why garlic makes me tired):


    Note that a couple of the Supplements mentioned (geared towards Metals) are too aggressive approach for someone who is moderately or severely Floxed in my opinion, and should not be undertaken, but most of the advice and many things listed are good even for those people (like diet tips etc).

    With something like detoxing you usually want to start slow as you don’t want to risk doing (more) damage, and you also need to protect yourself with good quality Anti-oxidants throughout the process (it mentions a couple). You also have to listen to your body and the herxheimer effects, really detoxing is a very serious business (especially for someone who has been poisoned, like a Floxie) and not something most people should tackle on their own unless they put many many hours into reading expert advice. I do consider it pivotal however to the health of every person, and to healing from many malices including being Floxed.

    For the length which is very short like one 8 x 11 page, it really is packed with excellent excellent ideas, a very good article though I think it forgot to mention at least one very important thing, exercise. So a good short read and some very helpful advice in there that I hope many here are trying to follow to help heal, which in my opinion it will. I’ve used most of these principles myself several times over the years including recently for my own Floxing, and my quick recovery is a testament on just how effective they are.

    • Jason July 20, 2015 at 2:23 pm Reply

      Just found this too, which explains why Selenium in my opinion is CRITICAL to probably every single Floxie out there, I consider it one of the most important supplements I took (out of like 25 or 30) and I felt an immediate difference when I took it on day 2!


      Thyroid activity (Fluoride attacks it), Anti-oxidant activity and glutathione synthesis, Infection-fighting ability, Etheric development and life extension and more. Great info

      This is an excellent website for Health info BTW, he has written about a ton of different subjects.

    • Linda Livingston July 20, 2015 at 3:15 pm Reply

      How do you know if you need to detox? My first thought was “you took cipro!” Good stuff, and I would add coconut oil to the oils list. Copied that soup recipe…thanks

      • Jason July 20, 2015 at 3:33 pm Reply

        Coconut Oil is amazing stuff with so many uses, maybe even the healthiest fat, I’ve been using it almost daily for 2 years

    • F July 20, 2015 at 9:52 pm Reply

      Thanks Jason.
      A good article for a newbie like myself. I am also adopting the Wahls protocol as much as I can. It’s a big job!

      • Jason July 20, 2015 at 10:31 pm Reply

        You’re very welcome. I’ve done a LOT of research on detoxing, and that article is a great little short summary of some of the great principles I’ve learned.

        Yes, changing one’s diet is a monumental task indeed, and so is trying to avoid chemicals, sugar, wheat, yeast, MSG, and other junk, its bluddy everywhere and it actually leaves almost no food left! Much of the time I’m looking for stuff to eat in house, but there is nothing! Arrgg. And so many repetitive meals, but that is the other issue, its a LOT of work too, making everything from scratch all the time because you don’t eat those convenient essentially poisonous processed foods, whole foods like organic fruits & veggies, hormone and anti-biotic free meat and eggs, that is all that is ‘real food’.

        All that said, I would never go back, its been SO worth it and its cleared up many problems like 25 years of heartburn and much much more, blood pressure dropped 10 points, cholesterol and triglycerides WAY lower, etc. I also realized I am very sensitive to Gluten (its an awful protein and very destructive even for people who don’t notice its effects, likely the GMO effect) so every since cutting that out I have less tired days than before too. It came up on skin test too with Oats, Barley & Rye.

        I very very highly recommend the book from Terry Wahl, The Wahls Protocol. This is packed with so much info that can help all Floxies, and only $10 on Kindle from Amazon, I would say its an essential purchase and reading really.

  9. Jason July 20, 2015 at 2:47 pm Reply

    Linda you’ll like this article I think, what an eye opener:


    No wonder the food Industry got so messed up, this clearly and specifically shows why.

    Is there another Letter in your future here somewhere…. ;)

  10. Josie July 20, 2015 at 6:48 pm Reply

    Has anyone ever experienced Visual Snow/ Static?

    • Linda Livingston July 20, 2015 at 7:42 pm Reply

      black specks, blurred vision and huge floaters

    • Heather July 20, 2015 at 8:03 pm Reply

      Hey everyone, so first to answer Josie I’m not sure if I would call what I experienced visual snow for me it was more like floaters and also blind spots in vision especially when trying to read. Those are both gone now at 2 years and 10 months out. Peter do you think maybe reflux is bothering your sinuses and breathing. Try propping the head of your bed up they have plastic lifts if you just have a cheap metal frame if its wood I actually ordered a lift so the head is always 4 inches higher. Made a huge difference! You can buy a reflux pillow online on amazon first to see if it helps. You have to be elevated from lower back up so propping some regular pillows won’t work. I found that even when my digestion is OK the valves don’t work right so I can’t sleep flat without some acid coming back to lungs and sinuses. I didn’t realize for a while that was the problem.

      • Heather July 20, 2015 at 8:14 pm Reply

        Oh and SM not sure how far out you are but I now have lots of low grade pain days opposed to moderate or severe. And around the 2 year mark was where I started to get more and more not so bad dayd but not sure if it was anything I can put my finger on. This toxicity and healing from it works in cycles. So I’m not 100% have good days and bad but so much better than the first couple years. Last week I almost felt completely normal for 5 days or so with not even low grade pain but honestly can’t think of anything I did different. I believe it’s the receptors.

        • tricia July 21, 2015 at 7:39 am

          I love your post Heather and I’m so happy you made it this far after reacting so severely. I’m 9 months out and recovered to almost 75% until a few weeks ago. I started jogging a couple times a week and I think that really set me back, as I prbly wasn’t ready for that. I always forget this thing runs in cycles….

        • SM July 21, 2015 at 10:08 pm

          Thanks, Heather. It’s one of the greatest confusions of floxing. We have these pretty good days or particularly crappy ones and we are obsessed with figuring out why. For me, it wasn’t just good days, but days where my nerve pain was super calm and unlike any moment in the past 2 years. Was it related to something? Maybe. I have an IV C later this week and that great period was closely aligned with a previous IV. So maybe. But it’s also possible, like you said, that it’s just part of the cycles of healing. I’ll take it. That moment gives me great hope.

  11. Dave July 22, 2015 at 5:33 pm Reply

    Hi what has worked for people here with nerve pain?

    • Josie July 22, 2015 at 6:49 pm Reply

      Has anyone experienced off balance feelings, or feeling like you’re on a boat? When I walk I feel off balance. :(

      • Daniela July 23, 2015 at 10:48 am Reply

        The boat feeling is the worst thing for me, but mine has been getting better after a few years. What helped me was really, really slow balance exercise, anything and everything that promotes calmness. Plus a strict mostly green vegetable diet, no grains.

    • Daniela July 23, 2015 at 10:51 am Reply

      I rub a little turmeric into the spots that hurt, and completely eliminate all dairy from my diet. It works for me! I don’t have to use the turmeric anymore, but I am sticking to no dairy.

  12. MK July 23, 2015 at 7:15 am Reply

    Hi everyone. It’s been 2 weeks and my symptoms have stayed the same, not better or worse. How do you deal with the anxiety? Every morning I wake up terrified that it will be the day that things get a lot worse. If that’s going to happen I wish I could just enjoy this time when my symptoms are simply “annoying” and not really affecting how I live. But I can’t think about anything else. I already had anxiety and depression before this.

    • Daniela July 23, 2015 at 10:53 am Reply

      Anxiety was horrible at the beginning. Keep trying to meditate — there are videos to watch to help on Youtube.
      One exercise I like is to imagine something that makes you happy, and notice the physical changes in your body that occur at the same time. Recall the feeling as needed, and soon, like all exercises, it will become natural and easier and easier. Takes time, but worth it :)

  13. Jason July 23, 2015 at 9:09 am Reply

    Hi Dave, Josie & MK. Please click the “Older comments” button at bottom of page and search through and read the last 4 to 6 pages or so and you will see LOTS of advice on all these issues and much much more. To find something specific just use the web browsers “search page” feature and for example search each page for “anxiety” or “nerve” or “PN” or “balance” to find all the discussions directly relating to that on each page. I highly recommend reading the full pages though when you get a chance, there is a lot of advice on a lot of things shared and also try to read some of the stories on this site for even more suggestions.

    Here is one excellent link for Anxiety with a lot of great tips on how to deal with it:


    Nevermind if you have GAD or not, these are great for anxiety of all types in my opinion. Rene will likely come along with more suggestions for all, and again if not for anxiety as she would point out you need to avoid all things MSG, Glutamate and the plethora of hidden sources as well, do some googling on this to find all the names it hides under and avoid. This drug damages Gabba receptors which throws off Gaba/Glutamate balance which regulate a great many things including anxiety, there are a bunch of natural supplements that can help with this balance and with anxiety, please see older comments (a couple of top of my head are Gaba itself, L-Theanine, Bacopa, Valerian Root and/or Melatonin before bed, Also with anxiety you need to avoid caffeine like the plague, yes chocolate and other sources too, and limit sugar.

    One other thing, it sounds cliche and it’s very easy to say rather than do but its just very true and critical that “worrying” about things with anxiety, will only make the anxiety worse (I know I suffered anxiety myself for a few years). Focus on and read positive stories of healing, concrete things you CAN do and do not bother with the worse case scenario type posts or thinking, you can only do what can, just make sure you are doing that, anything else is out of your control you just can not worry about it. As long as you are being proactive (which in this case means you have a lot of reading to do) you are doing all you can. If you have faith all the better, as faith is a huge way to deal with fear and fear=anxiety, so strengthen your faith if you have it, pray, and along with being proactive put yourself in his care. Whether someone has faith or not, the Serenity prayer (which can be adapted for someone not having faith) is an extremely value tool for anxiety and much more. “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.” This alone can help heal anxiety for many people, in the case of Floxies just make sure you are doing what you can.

  14. Jason July 23, 2015 at 9:54 am Reply


    I’ve posted a few times on the critical importance of diet on this page and have not mentioned WATER, of which the Human Adult Body is about 60-70% water, so again obviously of critical importance. The link above only sheds light on one reason not to drink tap, bottled, or not properly heavily filtered water. Along with drugs, there is a pile of chemicals “purposely” put in the water, nevermind all those there are also there and NOT reported on from chem trails, mining, industry in general, acid rain, oh the list goes on huge.

    So even if someone’s water is not Fluorinated (which to me and in my opinion to a Floxie is the worst one since we’ve been poisoned with Fluoride by taking Cipro drug), there are numerous other toxic chemicals in your water that you REALLY should not be ingesting. Here is the list I acquired from my own sad water supply in the City of Toronto (Google these to see just how nasty they are, I have not drank tap water for 20 years as I found out about this back then):

    Aluminum Sulphate, Chlorine Gas, Citric Acid, Liquid Oxygen (yay something good), Sodium Bisulfite, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Hypoclorite, Sulphic Acid, Anionic polymer, Cationic Polymer, and of course Hydrofluoric acid. Further down the line people have it even worse as they Chloraminate the water by adding Ammonia (extra nasty)

    Now in regards to the Fluoridated water specifically which of course makes it extra toxic:
    “Fluorosilicic acid (H2SiF6) is commonly used for water fluoridation. This is a toxic liquid by-product, acquired by scrubbing the chimney stacks of phosphate fertilizer manufacture. Hydrofluoric acid is a contact poison with greater hazards than many strong acids. It reacts with calcium and magnesium in the blood. Its more toxic than lead and just less so than Arsenic.” This drug robs your body of Magnesium, the Fluoride in the drug is likely the main reason.

    Hopefully someone does not need more convincing than that on the importance of Water. How much can ingesting chemicals, drugs, fluoride and God knows what else on a daily basis, where you body is 65% Water, affect your health? How much can it affect a Floxie, especially if your water has the God forsaken Fluoride toxic waste in it? (I am of the opinion a Floxie’s journey can definitely be lengthened and have suffered my own relapses due to Fluoride in water). Do you really want to find out and chance it?

    So what to do then? In my opinion from a lot of research someone should be drinking either Reverse Osmosis Water or Mineral Water from a confirmed good source. If you go the RO route, know that RO water is very acidic (meaning on the acidic/alkaline scale) and completely void of almost everything, which includes good minerals. What I do, and what I recommend is some minerals should be added back into the water before drinking, this kills 2 birds, the water becomes balanced on the alkaline scale (or you can tip it to alkaline) and you are now getting some important minerals as well, which is how water used to be for thousands of years, mineral-rich and a lot more pure. You can easily and cheaply make Magnesium Bicarbonate Water as well, which for a Floxie has extra benefits, I do this and then add some Potassium and others to it (search older pages for my posts how easily make this) There is some who swear drinking RO water can actually strip your body of minerals (and just as many who oppose the theory), I am unsure if this has ever been verified by a valid study but there is some logic in the theory.

    • Jason July 23, 2015 at 10:22 am Reply

      Remember we know that this drug we took impairs our Mitochondria activity AND robs our body of Magnesium. Here is a little more on the cheap and easy to make Magnesium Bicarbonate Water from a Magnesium expert in a great little article he wrote:


      “Magnesium Bicarbonate – The Ultimate Mitochondrial Cocktail. Without removing toxins and acids from all organs, cells and tissues, and without providing the essential nutritional building blocks like magnesium, the body will not be able to heal completely. Unless a treatment increases oxygen, water, and nutrients most medical interventions come to naught. When the body’s tissues and cells become too acidic in conjunction with mitochondrial deficiency we set the stage for tissue inflammation and degeneration as we become breeding grounds for anaerobic pathogens. Many in the alternative health field believe that there is not one drug on the market that reduces the acidity of the body or addresses any king of nutritional deficiency. This is not true! There happens to be two exceptional medicines that are excellent in addressing most of the issues mentioned above. Magnesium chloride and sodium bicarbonate are both considered medicines in their injectable forms and both provide almost immediate relief to physiological disturbances. This chapter is specifically about the dynamics of using these two substances together. Adding these two substances to taste not only will re-mineralize highly processed water but will provide the body with a constant supply of the ultimate mitochondrial cocktail. Few clinicians are aware how these two substances work to enhance each other – they are mutually reinforcing because magnesium functions as a bicarbonate co-transporter into cells. And bicarbonate acts as a transporter of magnesium into the mitochondria.”

      So apparently this water really helps get Mag right into the cells due to the bicarbonate, and absorption is really really high in general, great article and convinced me to make it and seems like the ultimate water for a Floxie especially.

      This is from one of Daniela’s older posts, “Magnesium dissolved in water (ionized) is considerably more bioavailable than is magnesium in solid tablets or capsules. About 50% of the magnesium contained in magnesium/bicarbonate water is absorbed. This is 12 times better than the absorption rate for magnesium oxide. So drinking 1 liter of magnesium/bicarbonate water per day would correspond to taking five 500 mg magnesium oxide tablets daily.”

      Here is how to easily make this cheap effective and important water:

      You buy a bottle of Milk of Magnesia (like $3), just make sure you buy one that has NO additives what-so-ever, the only ingredients should be Magnesium hydroxide and purified Water. Then buy 1 Liter of Carbonated Water ($1), again the only ingredient here should be Carbonated Water, nothing else. So we are talking $4 here, and this will make about 10 – 12 Litres of Water, almost enough for a week.

      Now slowly open the bottle of Water and pour out about 1/2 cup (and do whatever with it). Shake MoM and then Measure 3 TBSP and slowly pour it in water. Put cap on and shake bottle vigorously for 10 – 15 seconds, put it in the fridge. 30 mins later, remove bottle and shake it again for 10 -15 seconds, put back in fridge. DONE! It couldn’t be easier. Bottle should be “sunken in” if the reaction worked properly. If there is some MAG at bottom after this process don’t worry just leave it at bottom of bottle (if there is a lot then reaction likely did not work good enough).

      This is now a Magnesium Bicarbonate concentrate (don’t drink it!). I add about 2/3 of a cup of this to 2 liters of RO Water to get a good balanced water, and drink water through the day. Note this water is not exactly Mag Bicarbonate but estimated to be very close to it.

  15. tricia July 24, 2015 at 6:10 pm Reply

    I just happened to read through “flouroquinolone wall of pain victim and survivors stories” , although most of the stories were pretty gloomy. Does anyone happen to know if any of those particular folks who were having a hard time eventually improved???

    • Lina July 25, 2015 at 5:10 am Reply

      Yes I improved from the Levaquin toxicity, but it has taken IV treatments of Glutathione and Myers, as well as, 3000+ mg of magnesium a day, and B12 compounded, along with VSL3, glutathione nebulizer and amphoterecin. I am still having problems, but I finally am improving some. I also had a terroble mold exposure, which caused bacterial infections in my lungs, which is why I had to take Levaquin. I also started using a rectal ozond machine, 10 liters of oxygen 2 hrs a day, and msny other supplements which included Metagenics Ultra Clear Plus fir a year and a half, and now I am on Xymogen.

      I started dry needling physical therapy and manual therapy only for the shooting pains, frozen shoulder and pain spots. I also have been doing trigger point therapy by a Dr Sonny Dosanjh at Medici Medical Arts in Kennesaw and in Buckhead GA. Call him and see if he can help guide you regarding getting this treatment. He may also be able to refer you in your area. Leslie is his secretary and front desk at 1-844-328-4624 Ext 2.

      • Lina July 25, 2015 at 5:27 am Reply

        Hang in there. It takes time to get better. Address the magnesium deficiency also by getting a blood test that gets the levels of magnesium inside the cell. The makority of the Doctors only test what is inside the blood. It is also my understanding that this protects you from further nerve damage by protecting the myelin sheath around the nerves. It stops the severe muscle cramps like Charlie Horses too that I was getting in my feet and legs from the Levaquin.

        • J July 25, 2015 at 9:23 am

          Lina, thanks for writing . How long did it take you? I still have pain in my quads and tingling in my legs . Have tried lots of treatments . I’m 19 months out …did it take you longer ? Is your life getting back to “normal”? (Work, socially , eating etc?

        • Lina July 25, 2015 at 1:13 pm

          I started feeling better after I started the IV Glutathione treatments this past March 2015. I am doing them at Progressive Medical Center in Atlanta on N Shallowford Road. I have been getting treated for mold exposure since July 2013. The more oral Magnesium i added the better I got. I added Jigsaw magnesium as well. The power punch were the IV treatments.

      • J July 25, 2015 at 3:01 pm Reply

        thanks again for responding. I also went to progressive and had Ozone and glutathione last summer. I I believe both helped with fatigue and brain fog but did not help with the pain. Did you find it helped you with pain? I believe I mostly have nerve related pain and I’m wondering if I should Try the glutathione again

        • Linda Livingston July 25, 2015 at 4:32 pm

          J-I had excruciating midback pain—I mean worse than when I had cracked ribs. I think like most of my side effects, it was nerve related. It is one of the side effects that is completely gone now—could be the glutathione, or perhaps the combination of that and Phosphatidylcholine.

        • Lina July 26, 2015 at 12:32 am

          It it is the lack of Magnesium. It depletes the magnesium-Levaquin. It creates these pains.

        • Linda Livingston July 26, 2015 at 10:13 am

          Sarah, a “safer” one is macrobid, because it directly targets UTIs. All antibiotics have side effects. At least this one, as far as I know, does not have PERMANENT ones, like the FLQ. I actually treated a UTI recently, with the help of my naturopath, and a month long regimen that involved daily d-mannose (which does not cure it ,but helps flush stuff out,) Herb pharm’s urinary support system, and high doses of vitamin C and vitamin A. I don’t remember the amounts, so I would suggest you find a naturopath—a female if you can find one, and she would be able to help you with it.

      • J July 25, 2015 at 7:49 pm Reply

        Thank you Linda. Strange- seems like legs/feet hard to heal (maybe I just think that because that’s my focus!!). I focused mainly on ozone over last summer and it did in retrospect clear memory, brain fog and fatigue issues. My Dr. In Atlanta seemed to think it would help neuropathy but it didn’t seem to. My current Dr . does not do IV therapy but I could do glutathione again if needed – but not sure it would work. I did a couple months of it weekly with phospholipids and didn’t see much change. In fact- I still continued on a downward spiral (I got worse through about month 9 until I started to see positive changes) . I had so much muscle atrophy in my quads (which I no longer have ). My quads look “normal” again and muscles are strong, but it still hurts to stand and walk and no one can figure out why:( nerves I assume (as does my current Dr. ). So far the only symptom that hasn’t changed is this pain in quads . Even my twitching is slowly improving . So frustrating !!! I will look back into the IV’s. I think I had so many IVs last summer I had to take a break – think it was causing more depression etc. Oh and on that topic I believe an earlier post asked about anxiety – I had it BAD…really BAD. It is gone . Of course I have “normal” fears about my pain but thexanxietyvwas out of this world. I had never experienced it before and pray I never will again but for anyone experiencing it mine passed – took almost a year but it passed slowly. I started on lithium orotate and not sure it was what made the difference but it seemed to – who knows. But it’s gone:) for anyone going through it hang on- it should get better as brain chemistry heals…

        • Linda Livingston July 25, 2015 at 10:12 pm

          something else I had too, J, (and still getting) is H2O2 IVs. I was getting it primarily because I could no longer use my asthma meds, and it helps get stuff out of your lungs—but it also bathes all your cells with oxygen, so perhaps that helped as well too. I am in my 4th month of IVs—I get two a week. I believe the back pain left after about 2 months, trading off b/t H2O2, Phosphatyd/glutathione, high dose C/glutathione. (I always get a push of glutathione with whatever I can. Only the H2O2 I think prevents that. So, I think you need to do more than just a few IVs. Glad the anxiety left. Mine is hideous, and exacerbates my worst side effects—breathing problems. It is truly nightmarish. If I saw what I have been through on TV, on say The BlackList, I would have thought “yeah, I don’t believe it.” Yikes!

        • Lina July 26, 2015 at 12:34 am

          Take lots of Magnesium. It stops the demyelanation of the nerves and cramps and pains. Have your magnesium inside the cell checked.

        • Jason July 26, 2015 at 9:20 am

          Great show the Blacklist!

          As for MAG, Lina makes a good point that a “regular blood test” is not showing the whole picture (for many things). This is another reason I keep stressing the cheap and effective Magnesium Bicarbonate water I just posted about above, which has been dubbed “the ultimate Mitochondrial Cocktail” by an expert on Magnesium.

          One of the key differences with this form of MAG, is “the bicarbonate acts as a transporter of magnesium directly into the mitochondria inside the cells”. Most other forms of MAG can not offer the same effect, the Ancient Minerals Oil is excellent though (For Linda, not sure if you tried that brand but I know the Oil didn’t seem to help you, maybe try the Bicarbonate)

        • Lina July 26, 2015 at 10:46 am

          Take high dises of magnesium and aldo iv magnesium.

  16. Sarah July 26, 2015 at 4:23 am Reply

    I think I might have a UTI. Last time, I was prescribed Cipro. I took a pill, did my research and decided to lie that I’d had a bad reaction to it, and they switched me to something else though I don’t remember what it was. I’m doing fine now, but I’m not willing to take any chances. Anyway, do any of you have experience with safe antibiotics for UTI? I’d normally let it run its course, but it’s been almost a week and I’m feeling crappier and crappier. Last thing I need is to end up in the hospital with a kidney infection and get a fluoroquinolone IV. Bleh. I know Bactrim is popular but I’ve also read some pretty awful things about that one, though if it’s all I have I’ll take it.

    • Jason July 26, 2015 at 9:24 am Reply

      Hi Sarah. There was a LOT of important discussion about this in the last 3 pages or so, with advice given on antibiotics and many effective natural ways to combat a UTI as well.

      Please click on “older comments” on bottom of this page, and then use your web browser to search the pages for “UTI”, you will find at least one page with about 20 posts on the subject which will help a lot.

      • Jason July 26, 2015 at 6:18 pm Reply

        Page 29 is the important page I was referring to here, you can see what page you are on by looking at the address in the address bar once you click older comments. (we’re currently on page 32)

        The comment that starts the discussion is just over half way down the page by: tricia May 4, 2015 at 3:29 pm. Debs recommended not to take Macrobid OR Bactrim and recommends penicillin, cephlasporins and doxycycline. Others are also discussed, the importance of getting it cultured is discussed (as is here now), and there were about 7 more posts. Then I started a new discussion about 3/4 of the way down with this post I put below, and then there are about 8 more comments including 2 more somewhat long ones I did. Then tricia May 6, 2015 at 5:52 pm starts one more discussion just over 3/4 of the way down followed by 4 or 5 more important related posts including getting white cells ( Leucocytes ) found in urine when no UTI. So there really is a LOT of important discussion on that page.

        Hope that helps


        UTI – People who have this or think they have this, should seriously consider natural remedies, especially before antibiotics, and don’t just try one. The great thing about Natural remedies is that they almost never negatively interact with each other, unlike drugs, and they almost never had any bad side effects either so someone can easily try 2 things together most times. Again, the Earth Clinic can be Instrumental in helping people heal themselves naturally:


        About Cranberry Juice, don’t just buy the one from the Grocery store shelf made from concentrate etc, go to the Health Food Store and buy a 100% pure concentrate. Dynamic Health makes the best Tart Cherry Juice concentrate I could find, and by the looks of the reviews on Amazon, they make an excellent Cranberry Juice concentrate too, just go to Amazon and search “Dynamic Health Cranberry Concentrate Juice” and you will see the one I am referring to.

        At the Earth Clinic link above, you will see that APPLE CIDER VINEGAR, not CJ, is reported to be the most effective natural cure for a UTI, with 90 votes (this is a lot for EC). Note the next reported best cure is not CJ itself but a powder derived from it, 24 votes. Here is a comment regarding it and how to use it:

        Quote” A natural sugar found in Cranberries is called D-Mannose powder, available at all health food stores. If you have a UTI, take1 teaspoon every few hours for a day. Within 30-45 minutes of the first dose, the pain and fevers will be gone, and the burning. It is a miracle supplement! . It works by making the urethra walls slippery and so the bacteria can’t hold on. It’s so much easier and healthier than antibiotics.”

        More comments:

        “Just wanted to follow up my post from 3 nights ago. The ACV bath worked! I have had no more bladder infection symptoms… zero! I did drink water with 1/8th teaspoon of baking soda for the next 24 hours to help with alkalinity.”

        “Coconut milk and coconut water are my go to for bladder infections. It goes away pretty much the same day after drinking coconut milk.”

        I too had numerous urinary tract infections and lots of antibiotics for them, before I learned to both avoid them in the first place and cure them early on. To cure them when I feel one coming:

        – Drink a tall glass of water, or two. Or three.
        – Absolutely do not consume anything sugary. Sugar feeds the UTI and makes it much worse. So soda does not count as water, it is anti-water here.
        – I mix a tablespoon of baking soda in a tall glass of water (12 oz?), just stir it with a spoon and drink as much as I can. It tastes so vile I have to force it down, but this coctail has not failed me once since I found it. I have nipped every UTI (which come rarely now anyway) in the bud with extra water and the baking soda drink, but more advanced cases may require repeated doses.

        Replied by Kathy, Clemmons, Nc, 04/24/2015 – Was in great discomfort today with UTI. Came home and read on this site about baking soda and vinegar. Almost immediate relief. Thank you Earthclinic!

        Posted by Kk (Ny) on 05/10/2011 – I suffer from frequent urinary tract irritations and do not always want to go on antibiotics. I have tried almost every remedy out there from nettle tea to probiotics. For the past two episodes, I found a recommendation on the internet to drink a teaspoon of baking soda diluted in water and miraculously the burning goes away almost instantly.

        Remember, what might work one time, may not work another time. What might work for one person, may not work for another

        • Rene July 26, 2015 at 11:32 pm

          One correction re: a comment posted on another site that you posted.
          D-mannose and cranberry are not the same thing. D-mannose come from the bark of birch trees. Both can be effective…..in particular D-mannose for e-coli uti infections. Both can be used during episode or for maintenance.

        • Jason July 27, 2015 at 5:30 am

          Hi Rene. Actually the comment mentions that D-Mannose is a natural Sugar found in Cranberries, and this is correct. There is mention it can come from plants but doesn’t mention which ones, the most common consensus out there is its mostly derived from Cranberries.


          Quote “The active ingredient in cranberry juice responsible for its benefit to your urinary system has been identified and isolated—and that is D-mannose. D-mannose can be derived from berries, peaches, apples, and some other plants. Pure D-mannose is amazingly 10-50 times stronger than cranberry, non-toxic and completely safe, with NO adverse effects.”

          Everywhere else I found info on the Internet said the same thing. Link has a bunch of other good info there as well. Now Foods seems to make a good one (also says from plants including Cranberries) that is sold on Amazon and has 1200+ very good reviews.

        • Jason July 27, 2015 at 5:52 am

          Ah yes I did find that the “other plants” can be beech or birch woods, so will depend on the manufacturer where they derived their D-Mannose from.

          As I’ve said before, my recommendation is to try more than one remedy at the same time; like for instance take D-Mannose, drink some pure Cranberry juice, alkalize the body with ACV & Baking Soda, and heck have some Coconut Milk too. (although I don’t have personal experience with UTI, this is often how I treat other malaise’s naturally)

    • Rene July 26, 2015 at 1:28 pm Reply

      Hi Sarah,
      You should have it cultured. If it is E-coli than D-mannose will work effectively if used diligently for the time necessary. Wellness partners on line sells a “formaldehyde free” powder. Go to website and speak with them. It will not hurt to try and may even be what turns it around. BUT in the meantime, get your samples cultured! If it is a staph strain than it will require a specific antibiotic suited to that strain. A Macro bid or amoxicillin are what are typically prescribed. Bactrim can be very harsh to take in that it can make a person feel yucky, out of sorts…so not first choice.

      Lots of water, and if possible get 100% Cranberry Concentrate form your health food store. No sugar just pure Cranberry. Take a table spoon of that 3 -4 times a day as well and for maintenance as well as the D-mannose.

  17. Linda Livingston July 26, 2015 at 10:16 am Reply

    Jason—I love the blacklist although sometimes I really wish they would tone down the gore factor. James spader is amazing. But one evening they showed a young man walking (I believe on a college campus) with someone following behind. He suddenly stopped, started convulsing, blood came pouring out of his eyes, and all I could think was “he got floxed!”

    • Jason July 26, 2015 at 12:31 pm Reply

      lol – Yeah James really makes the show for sure

  18. J July 28, 2015 at 5:45 am Reply

    Question for anyone: I have been supplementing with magnesium (all kinds but mainly ionic) and ancient minerals spray for 18 months now and my levels are still too low. Anyone experience this? Also was taking sublingual methyl B12 and apparently my B12 is too high now which my Dr says is unusual as most excrete B12. (I have 1 copy mthfr and methylation issues we are addressing. My folate is too high which he says means I’m storing it and not using it) ) I have dangetously low ferritin as well (5) which I have read can lead to pain – but I have NO fatigue. My insomnia is better and sleep us back to normal for me (was never great sleeper!). The good news is the other numbers (liver , etc.) have all normalized again . My Dr does not do infusions and so I’m wondering if that is necessary at this point? Did anyone experience inability to get magnesium up and/or b12 and/or ferritin issues? I have improved tremendously except for pain twitching and tingling in legs and feet . Also my Dr uses something called Field Control Therapy. Has anyone ever heard of this? It’s odd to say the least but so is half the stuff I’ve tried! I am using the rebuilder for nerves but so far not sure it’s helping . Also some Active Release massage in legs which actually helps for a few minutes . I just want this last piece to be gone!!

  19. Jason July 28, 2015 at 7:39 am Reply

    Hi J. Not sure on the B12 and Folate issues, I am just getting into this end of things.

    If you are low on MAG, see my post about 20 up or so on Magnesium Bicarbonate, which helps the MAG get directly into the cells. How much Oil are you using also? You are using Oil and not Lotion correct? The “twitching” and pain (I had no nerve tingling or pain thankfully, my pain was in tendons and muscles) in legs were two of my worst symptoms and the MAG is what helped me the most, that and actually detoxing the junk out (through exercise, sauna, massage and supplements mainly). I am now pain, symptom and finally it seems damage free after just 6 months, yesterday I had a very aggressive deep tissue massage in legs, this gave me a relapse before however now I have no effect, the junk is gone. I was taking many different forms of MAG as well, that without the Oil & Water, were adding up to 500-600 daily IIRC. You can work up to a LOT of sprays if necessary, which for you it sounds like it is, Rene is kind of the expert on this here, but I was using like 20 sprays on each leg and even 5 on each arm when things were bad (sometimes I would wake up more tired/slightly dizzy if I used a ton).

    Are you Anemic? My wife is, and her Ferritin has also been dangerously low for way too long (she was not supplementing, big mistake, Doctor’s did not advise her properly) She found out she basically needs to supplement daily, and has to take a strong iron on empty stomach with orange juice to help with absorption. Low iron is extremely hard on the entire body and something that needs to be rectified asap with anyone that has this condition (organs are starved for oxygen, etc).

    • J July 28, 2015 at 9:10 am Reply

      Thanks! Gosh I hope its not too late and that getting these issues under control can still lead to recovery …

      • Jason July 28, 2015 at 9:29 am Reply

        Never too late if your above ground! Hehe Really though you are being very proactive so I think you will be fine, but definitely figure out why iron is so low and get that up if too low. We seen my wifes blood live in “Live Blood Cell Test” (VERY good test if done by good practitioner and has good detailed microscope) and you can see the red blood cells are just imploding, its awful, and goes with the condition she inherited from one of her parents. (Thalassemia) Iron levels are supposed to be above 80, I think the range is like 80-300 ug/L for normal, she got down to 24 at one point, not good, she was tired a lot, sleeping more than usual, could not keep a brisk pace walking even. etc. Her red blood cell count was very bad too, and is always lacking due to condition, hopefully you got all that checked as well.

        • Jason July 28, 2015 at 9:44 am

          I see sites on the Internet are not clear on this. I just checked, on our actual Blood test in Canada it does show 80-300 being normal (and ug/L = ng/mL , 1=1). Then it says, 31 – 79 is reduced, 12-30 is depleted, and less than 12 is deficient.

          Given your level is 5, if correct (could be off on test, worth re-testing imo) I am surprised you are not exhausted. My wife was only 35 years old at the time hers dropped to 24, and you could really see it in her. She is taking a cheap but effective brand of Iron that can even be picked up at Walmart, “euro-Fer, $6, 30 caps, 300mg Iron. Its taken quite a while (she was not doing daily at the beginning) but her levels are up to 65 last test, she is going soon for another hopefully will be over 80 now.

  20. Jan July 28, 2015 at 3:32 pm Reply

    SM, How are you doing? wondered if the vitamin C IV was helping you?

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