Welcome to Floxie Hope

Floxie.Hope.1800.72.dpi

This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – Why NSAIDs Suck for Floxies (and Probably Everyone Else Too)

[This site is about Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome, Floxing, cipro side-effects, levaquin side-effects, avelox side-effects, floxin side-effects, fluoroquinolone antibiotics, antibiotic side-effects, dangerous drugs, cipro danger, levaquin danger, avelox danger, cipro reaction, levaquin reaction, avelox reaction, floxin reaction, Cipro recovery, levaquin recovery, avelox recovery, floxin recovery, recovery stories, fluoroquinolone poisoning, adverse drug reaction, healing, hope, and any other keywords that are important. :) ]

Please support Floxie Hope –

Thank you!  More info about supporting this site can be found HERE

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including Cindy and Ruth.  Affiliate link –

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5,808 thoughts on “Welcome to Floxie Hope

  1. Jen May 8, 2015 at 7:18 pm Reply

    Thank you everyone for your posts! So much valuable information.

  2. Jason May 9, 2015 at 12:33 pm Reply

    I promise I will stop posting at some point, but I found something while researching Fibromyalgia remedies that could REALLY help Floxies here and wanted to share it….

    D-Ribose is a simple carbohydrate molecule found in every cell in the human body, and is critical in the continuous production of ATP, the molecule which gives our muscles
    and our heart the energy they need to perform. ATP production within the mitochondria benefits from D-ribose supplementation in two ways: ATP production from scratch can be increased up to 400%, and the more efficient recycling or salvaging method can increase up to 700% D-Ribose in supplemental form is absorbed at a rate of up to 95%. Use 5 grams up to three times a day for pain associated with fibromyalgia or lack of energy from cancer treatment.

    Okay, I don’t know how accurate those numbers are but they are certainly exciting and promising from a Floxie point of view. We know our Mitochondria has been damaged, and that ATP is in the toilet (severe case Floxies really know this unfortunately well) very similar to what happens from Cancer Drugs. So it would make perfect sense that this would be a VERY helpful supplement indeed, and yet I have never ever seen it mentioned anywhere.

    Here is some more info from this link: http://www.drwhitaker.com/natural-treatments-for-fibromyalgia

    Quote: “Re-energize patients with coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10), L-carnitine, magnesium and ribose. People with fibromyalgia (and its common sidekick, chronic fatigue syndrome) often have below-normal levels of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), the energy that fuels your cells. They also typically have a reduced ability to manufacture ATP in muscle cells.

    To improve cellular energy, I prescribe 200 mg of coenzyme Q10, 500–1,000 mg of L-carnitine, 500–1,000 mg of magnesium, and 10–15 g of ribose, all of which should be taken daily in divided doses.

    Though all of these nutrients are involved in cellular energy, ribose may be the most important. In one study, researchers gave 41 patients with fibromyalgia and/or chronic fatigue syndrome 5 grams of ribose three times a day. After four weeks, nearly 70 percent of the participants had significant improvements in symptoms and quality of life thanks to this treatment for fibromyalgia”

    —-

    Note that these 4 things possibly came from Dr Stephen Sinatra’s “awesome foursome”. Quote from him, “My Awesome Foursome is based on what I call metabolic cardiology. That is, your heart runs on a fuel called ATP and nature has provided four unbelievably powerful nutrients—CoQ10, L-carnitine, D-ribose, and magnesium—that work together to help your body produce it. And the more ATP your body makes, the stronger, healthier, and more powerful your heart can become”

    —-

    So we see two of these recommended for Floxies all the time, CoQ10 (antioxidant & other benefits) and Mag (many benefits). I added L-carnitine recently but it looks like D-ribose is potentially the most important one when it comes to ATP. A quick look over at Amazon you see some very promising reviews, just search “Doctor’s Best Best D-Ribose Featuring Bioenergy Ribose, 250-Gram” at Amazon to find comments like this to confirm all the above:

    “I have fibromyalgia with fatigue syndrome and I would have only 2, maybe three days a year that I would feel “normal” and able to function. I feel so much better with D-Ribose and I am able to function. My husband noticed that I have been feeling a lot better and I have been able to do a lot more than usual after just one month’s use.”

    “I have fibromyalgia, read about D-Ribose and I’ve been taking it for over 6 months. It truly does help with fatigue and mental hiccups.”

    “Normally, things that work for me show the benefit pretty quick (a matter of days). So when I hadn’t noticed any appreciable improvement to my daily stamina, I assumed it wasn’t going to work for me. Kept taking it though, and a few days later realized I still had energy when I got home from work. My thoughts were clear, I didn’t need to take a nap, and my sleep patterns appeared to improve. I come home with enough mental/physical energy left to act like a real human being for a few hours before bedtime.”

    “I struggled with persistent fatigue for years. When I did try to exercise it was exhausting. After reading “From Fatigue to Fantastic” I purchased the Doctor’s Best D-Ribose and quickly noticed a significant improvement in my energy levels.I began to have enough energy to start exercising and, after months of preparation, at 63 years old, I completed my first 5K race. This may not work for everyone, but it is little short of a miracle for me.”

    —-

    I won’t recommend anything since I am not a “Quackified Doctor”, and people should make up their own minds, do their own research etc etc yada yada. Honestly though, it looks very promising for anyone suffering from a lack of energy, which we know many Floxies are and this goes to work in the body to help with ATP production which is just one of the important things we know this drug screws up. Its another naturally occurring substance in the body also, so is definitely something I will be buying very soon.

    • Jason May 15, 2015 at 3:55 pm Reply

      Here is a little more about ATP, which again is damaged in Floxies

      http://www.metabolics.com/blog/the-definitive-guide-to-magnesium-and-magnesium-supplements/

      That is a great link all about Magnesium actually, here is a quote that caught my eye

      “Magnesium Supplements contribute to reduction of tiredness and fatigue and normal energy yielding metabolism. Magnesium is present in every cell. ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) is the major unit of energy produced in the body, but ATP is actually Magnesium–ATP. All enzymes that create or use ATP require Magnesium ions. Deficiency of Magnesium means that energy cannot be produced and tiredness and fatigue result.”

      With that in mind, consider the following I found on one Mag in particular:

      “Magnesium malate is a fantastic choice for people suffering from fatigue, since malic acid — a natural fruit acid present in most cells in the body — is a vital component of enzymes that play a key role in ATP synthesis and energy production. Since the ionic bonds of magnesium and malic acid are easily broken, magnesium malate is also highly soluble.”

      Yet another reason to use ACV also.

  3. Elizabeth May 9, 2015 at 3:57 pm Reply

    Since this is a site for HOPE, I want to say that I AM GETTING BETTER. I am recovering/bouncing back.
    I should start a new post .. But I didn’t. Your mention of D-ribose prompted me to post this.
    A few months before starting Cipro I had started working on improving my mitochondrial function. Dr. Sarah Myhill has a good book out about CFS and mitochondria. Her website is also packed with info. So based on her and Dr. Tietelbaum’s research and experience, my mother started helping me focus on that specific area of my health.
    Because I was working on it already, I really think that is helping me bounce back from the Cipro toxicity. Jason, you mentioned Wahls and that is a protocol my mom had read a lot about. I haven’t read her book but I believe it’s good info from what I hear.
    My diet consists of organic puréed vegetables, organic puréed meats, some healthy fats, a bit of fruit..I have digestive issues so that’s why I chose this diet. The point of posting that info is basically to say that you should try to eat what is healthy for you while you are healing.
    **Then I started taking D-ribose (like you mentioned), NAC, ALCAR, CoQ10 (ubiquinol form). Those are to help support the mitochondria.
    **I also take Dr. Tietelbaum’s Energy Revitalization System, vit C, vit D3&K, two forms of magnesium, probiotics..

    For my own separate personal health issues, several of which are common with CFS, I take DHEA (low DHEA), natural dissected thyroid (hypothyroidism), B12 (low B12/energy), d-mannose (UTI’s caused by E. Coli)), Biofilm Defense (UTI’s not caused by E. Coli), ginger and mint (nausea), low dose imipramine for sleep, pain, migraines, Ambien for sleep, and Adderall for energy. I quit taking Naproxen because you all said to but I’m not sure why that is. Next I’m looking into adrenals and Lyme. So much to look at!

    Getting back to the Cipro and healing…
    This is what has helped me most–
    Mitochondrial supplements, good diet, not getting up and expending energy when I don’t have any, SLEEP as much as I can- (I have to drug myself to sleep but sleep is so imperative for healing that I’m doing it), and EFT/tapping, which is an acupressure technique that you can quickly and easily learn for yourself online or you can pay to go see someone trained in it. The EFT has helped me GREATLY and immediately with intense symptoms.

    So…I’m healing. It’s happening. I thought I was going to die after I stopped taking it. I asked my mother if I was dying. It was rough and it still is but I’m having positive results that are occurring quickly and I believe that the reasons I listed above are why. I encourage everyone reading this to at least try EFT. You don’t have to believe it. It costs you nothing. It’s easy. Once you know how to use it, you can use it on all kinds of things and it can blow your mind. If anyone needs help with it, I would be happy to teach you and see if we can get a reduction in any of your symptoms. It’s worth a shot. I’m not a practitioner. I make no money from that.

    Okay good luck everyone! I’m going to post my story again several times later on though bc I want it to be seen.

    • Brian May 9, 2015 at 7:19 pm Reply

      Great post Elizabeth, thank you! Would you mind telling us how old you are?

      • Elizabeth May 11, 2015 at 11:08 am Reply

        Brian, I am 37.

    • Jason May 9, 2015 at 8:40 pm Reply

      Great post Elizabeth, and don’t worry it was a ‘new one’ :) Great news you are improving and quickly! For future reference for readers, how long ago did you take pills and how many?

      The reasons why you think you are healing fast make perfect sense to me, many of them are the exact reasons why I also believe I am basically symptom free in 3 months. On that note, the ONLY “symptom” (likely there is DNA damage remaining) I have left is mild Tinnitus, and the only reason for that was because I tool Advil one day in a moment of desperation and foolishness, overestimated my recovery and underestimating the reason NOT to take NSAIDS.

      Naproxen is a NSAID, and if you look just above these 4 posts on this page, and above the link to the The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook above them you will find a very good article linked and written by Lisa about ” Why NSAIDs Suck for Floxies (and Probably Everyone Else Too)”. Basically IIRC from article, the NSAIDS get into your body and react with the Fluoroquinolones stored there, mobilzes the toxins and can even intensify them. People have had some VERY bad reactions from taking these post-Flox. I was dumb enough to test this out, I figured I had mobilzed and eliminated most of the crap after 2 months of detoxing and most of my symptoms were minimized or eliminated so I’ll “test this out” and hope it gets rid of my head pain of 10 weeks which actually started pre-Flox. It was a terrible terrible idea, a bunch of symptoms that were gone for weeks like back pain, random pains all over, tendon pain, joint pain and more actually came back, and my minor Tinnitus intensified and still isn’t gone, but is finally minor again. So while I quickly reacted to this reaction, and soaked up all the junk to eliminate it took antioxidants etc and the whole thing only lasted a week for me (less the Tinnitus), I can definitely confirm its a very very bad idea, even when I was 85% recovered at the time I did it.

      I had knew about the Wahl protocol long ago when I started my strict diet, but reading Renee’s story here http://floxiehope.com/renees-story-cipro-reaction/ at FH once again re-inforced how critical diet can be (and she believes really helped her get over FQ toxicity) The link to the book is there, and there is a great little video only 17 minutes long linked at the bottom of her short story where Dr. Terry Wahl concisely explains (many details revealed too) how eating really whole and healthy let her walk/run/ride a bike again and cured her of MS, an incurable disease. Of course the book goes into great detail and is excellent, I did not read it all but she teaches people many very important things including diseases, how to be generally healthy, how to eat to repair the body, how to safely and properly detox and avoid toxins, good and important supplements, exercise and stress, and more of course.

      Elizabeth I hope you seen my posts last page on sleep and pain? I’ve been suffering from Intermittent Insomnia for a couple of years and found lots of great natural things to combat it, non-addictive, no nasty side effects, effective, etc, in my “unquackified” opinion it would be great if you were able to ditch those Rx’s and go natural instead. Practically anytime an Rx is used for anything, it can be substituted for a natural cure which in many cases is even more effective and in every case is safer. Of course there are exceptions where the natural route just doesn’t seem to work, or work fast enough.

      Dr. Mercola is a big advocate of EFT and has written about it many times and from what I seen indeed looks very simple yet effective. Note you might consider submitting your full detailed story to Lisa to post on the site once you really think you are “out of the woods” so it can always be seen by as many people as possible. (to me this meant 90% healed from the Fluoroquinolone Toxicity).

      • Jason May 9, 2015 at 8:46 pm Reply

        Oh, for anyone interested, this looks to be the Recipe Companion document to the
        The Wahls Protocol, and looks to be free directly from her website, I just ran into it from googling so thought I would sharehere:

        http://terrywahls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Master-Recipe-List-v4-optimized-2.pdf

        ps – I would be wary of the recipes with Soy, much has been written about Soy on the Internet including being full of GMO’s and a hormone disruptor.

        • Jason May 9, 2015 at 8:47 pm

          And Gluten!

  4. Was May 9, 2015 at 11:14 pm Reply

    I am a victim of Cipro toxicity, I don’t know what to do, I don’t have money for all the expensive treatments and remedies :(, this is totally unjust and unfair to floxe people without letting them know the consequences, I am totally hopless and I feel that as I will get older I’ll have more problems due to this toxicity,
    I have read that “We” people who are affected by Fluoroquinolones, are 10 percent of the population, “feels special”
    As we are just 10% of the population, I think we need an association which will have a team of legal experts, who would sue all these pharmaceuticals companies and doctors who make money from these toxic drugs, they cannot just ignore us saying that these people are just a fraction of the population, :(
    What will this association do ? As all those who are affected by these drugs aren’t rich enough to go for the expensive remedies plans: this association will advocate our case and will make them pay who make profit from these, this money will be used in helping the affected and will also be used in the research for treatment of this toxicity,

    Sorry for my English is not my native language,

    • Linda Livingston May 10, 2015 at 8:40 am Reply

      I am sure everyone on this site agrees with you. I too struggle with ways to pay for treatment. My biggest fear is that the breathing problems I am experiencing as a result will not go away. There have been a couple thousand lawsuits against these companies, and sadly they just view that as a cost of doing business. I have been trying to find an attorney (unsuccessfully) partly because mine was a generic and partly because ALL the doctors prescribe cipro. You are right—it is grossly unfair. Now that it has been linked to Gulf War Syndrome, there is another possible group to add to the list of victims. Do you live in the U.S.?

      • Was May 10, 2015 at 11:08 am Reply

        Thank you for considering a reply, Yes it is totally impossible for a 24 year old student to pay for these extremely expensive treatments, some talk about stem cell infusion some about detoxification procedures, glutathione injections and some other steroids which have their own implications and side effects,
        As I wrote I am just 24 year old, and I am experiencing all this at a young age, like when I type or use the touch pad I feel my hands shaking :(, my handwriting has deteriorated,
        Well that’s sad that you were unsuccessful, But I am sure that’s possible If we all unite and fight for the people who are yet to be intoxicated, I feel really sorry for those who are yet to be a victim,
        No, I am not from the US, I am from Pakistan, and Fluoroquinolones are prescribed extensively they are distributed like candies at stores here it’s a whole mafia of Pharmaceutical companies and doctors, these companies pay the doctors through different ways, a they arrange so called Conferences and seminars all over the world pay for their tickets and even give them money for shopping, gift them with vouchers, mobile phones laptops, in return they ask for prescription of their drugs. :/,

        • Linda Livingston May 10, 2015 at 12:59 pm

          Not much different here. They are widely used for simple infections, even though they are meant for life and death situations. Here, the sales reps of course only talk about how great the drugs are, and no mention of the terrible side effects and the doctors are sadly uninformed.

    • Daniela May 10, 2015 at 11:15 am Reply

      Deep breathing (pranayama) brings more oxygen to the body. Also gentle movement. If you live in a dark place, get some sun for Vitamin D. Eat 50% vegetables for many other vitamins. Water. Sleep. Meditation

      I don’t think there is any remedy yet, but there might be a lot of people selling things to vulnerable people. Which country are you in?

      • Was May 11, 2015 at 6:57 am Reply

        I am from Pakistan, and you should all mention your age, I want to know if age is a plus point or not, I mean like if you are less than 30 does it means you have more chances to heal and detox with time ?

        • Mark May 11, 2015 at 7:21 am

          Hi Was,

          I’m 27 and since over a year nothing has changed for the better.

          Mark

        • Daniela May 11, 2015 at 10:26 am

          I think it is better if you are younger. Many people get sick when they take it over and over again, so if you are younger you still have a very good chance. Don’t despair :)

          Try the hatha yoga, pranayama and meditation. It really helps.

        • Elizabeth May 11, 2015 at 11:07 am

          Was, I am 37, not in very good health, and I am having improvement from my symptoms due to Cipro.

        • Rene May 11, 2015 at 1:56 pm

          Age is not necessarily a factor, as like myself who were injured in their late 40’s recovered over a 3 year period.

      • Was May 13, 2015 at 1:43 pm Reply

        Yes, I think with times these symptoms fades away, because to be honest I have had more than 10 courses of these Anti-bio chemo drugs the past 3 years, when I didn’t know of it’s side effects, and I recovered all the 10 times because in-between I had good patches of good health though with little problem of immune system, especially after 1 month of fasting I fast because I am a Muslim, ironically I gained weight and muscle, during fasting and immune system also improved, but when I moved to a different city than my hometown, I felt like there’s some problem with the drinking water of this city, I think the water here has extra minerals like fluoride because even before I took these pills, my hair started falling that’s why I thought something’s wrong with the water, which rather than flashing out the toxins I think is adding to the problem and maybe that’s why I felt it the worst this time when I had a course of these drugs, I think when I will go back to my village ( countryside) where the air is clean water is clean and has no toxins in it, I will recover fast, I hope so, I was really hopeless but then I thought that like this is not the first time I took these drugs I have a ENT problem because of what I have recurrent throat infection and for the past 10 years I think I have had more than 20 courses of these drugs,

        • Daniela May 13, 2015 at 3:26 pm

          Hi Was, Fasting just 2 days, drinking only broth or boiled water, helped me. Where i live now the water contains a lot of chemicals so I buy filtered water. Reverse osmosis is supposed to remove a lot of fluoride, But your beautiful village is probably the best place.

  5. Therese May 10, 2015 at 10:05 am Reply

    One year ago I took ciprofloxacin and became very ill. I got nervedamage and couldnt feel my intere body. My pulse was 142 wen I was resting and I got seasures. My bloodpresaur was 190/160. Ive Malung god process bring better. I have got more feelings inside my body who went numb. I have a god bloodpressuar but I have episodes when my heart is beating realy fast. Its not very often every 6-8 weeks my heart is beating so fast. This morning I sleept in my bed and woken up and my heart was 160 beats per minutes. Those episode came with the first cipro I took. The dockors cant explain why. They did ultrasound of my heart and I had a thing 24 houtrs measuring my heart avtivity. I have Done 5 EKG everything is normal. But im so sad and scared. Any One else? Sorry about my english. Im from sweden. Hope you understand my text.

    • Linda Livingston May 10, 2015 at 10:29 am Reply

      I get that too. It is scary. I also had all negative tests except an EKG/echo showed pericardial effusion. They recommend NSAIDs or prednisone, neither of which I can take because of the FLQ toxicity. They really put us all in a very very bad position. The following is taken from the website of raysahelianmd.com I hope these might help: “Increase your water intake. A decrease in fluid intake can make the heart more prone to irregular rhythms.

      Fish oils may reduce the frequency and severity of heart palpitations. Fish oils and omega-3 fatty acids have been studied for heart arrhythmia more than any other natural supplements. Fish oils stabilize cardiac cell membranes. The study outcomes regarding its benefits have been mixed and I suspect some of the studies that did not show benefits may perhaps be due to the low amounts of fish oils that were used. It may take a high daily dose to be effective, combined with regular consumption of cold water fish and even fish eggs. It may also require an overall change in diet that emphasizes more vegetables and less sugarty.
      Flax seed oil has omega 3 fatty acids and may help, but flax seed oil may not be as effective as fish oil.
      Carnitine in amounts less than 100 mg a day
      CoQ10 in amounts less than 30 mg a day may be helpful.
      Magnesium has been used for heart palpitations and many doctors find this mineral to be quite helpful at 200 to 400 mg a day initially and then reduced to 100 to 200 mg a day.
      Resveratrol is a natural antioxidant, there is little human research regarding its influence on heart rhythm or heart palpitations.
      Berberine and berbamine are potential agents to be considered.
      Hawthorn herb has been tested in rodents and found to have potential benefits against arrhythmias.”

      • Peter May 15, 2015 at 4:10 pm Reply

        I had the heart issues for a long time. They eventually went away on their own over about a year. I hope it works out for you.

    • Lisa Bloomquist May 12, 2015 at 12:32 pm Reply

      A Chinese Herb called Suxiao Jiuxin Wan helped to calm down my racing heart. Apparently, in China, it’s used frequently for heart health issues. Please do research and look into it yourself, as I am not a doctor. But I did want to mention that it helped me a lot.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0012822/

      Hugs,
      Lisa

    • Heather May 15, 2015 at 7:29 pm Reply

      I had palpitations and racing heart for the first year. It pretty much went away maybe had racing a few times in the last year at most.

  6. Mike May 10, 2015 at 3:06 pm Reply

    Jason,

    If you do have an autonomic dysfuction you will have a hard time getting a diagnosis due to the fact that it’s rare and most doctors have no clue about autonomic dysfuction. I went through MANY doc’s before I basically diagnosed myself and then had it confirmed by Vanderbilt Autonomic dysfunction center. NCS + floxed = a miserable life. One of the “remedies” for treating NCS is to make sure your legs muscles are toned and to excercise every day. I had things pretty well under control until I got hit with this. I can’t work out. I can’t excercise. My joints are trashed therefore NCS has gotten worse significantly. My brain fog is out of control now.

    A tilt table test will confirm an autonomic dysfunction.

    Good luck man.

    • Jason May 10, 2015 at 5:39 pm Reply

      Thanks a lot Mike for that extra info I’ve added it to my notes, and so sorry you’re suffering is now much worse.

      I can tell you what I am using to keep my joints together, it really really works but isn’t cheap and takes about 3 weeks to kick in to see results. Of course, detoxing the body of the damn drug toxins is equally as important otherwise the joints will get continually affected, so my plan was to do that and support the joints at the same time to try and minimize the damage (try to heal them faster than rate of damage) and it definitely worked to a large degree for sure. My joints were the worst symptom I had from 3rd morning I woke up after taking 2 Avelox pills, it was the first clue that I knew something was very wrong. I had joint and tendon issues before the Flox, and I was supplementing for the joints, but that morning I woke up within the10 steps or so to get to the washroom my joints cracked about 35 times no exaggeration, and joints that never ever usually crack! (as opposed to maybe 3 or 4 normally) I was very scared I would not play any sports again this whole year, joints were extremely trashed along with the 22 other symptoms or so I had and went into panic_and_research_mode and starting evasive action immediately.

      So for the joints specifically, here is what I was taking before the Flox, and still use it:

      Naka Nutri-Flex Supreme 500 ml

      There are many very good ingredients in here:

      Glucosamine Sulfate (sodium free) 1500mg
      Hydrolyzed Collagen 1600mg
      MSM (Methyl Sulfonyl Methane) 750mg
      Bromelain 160mg
      Parsley 150mg
      Celery 150mg
      Devil’s Claw 150mg
      Dandelion 100mg
      Turmeric 50mg
      Boswellia 10mg
      Hyaluronic Acid 5mg
      Vitamin D3 25mcg

      The Hydrolyzed Collagen comes at a price of giving you a dose of glutamate, which can be not good for the Brain, but damn this stuff works for joints. You take a day or two off you know. Since being Floxed, I also started taking 2 more things which really help:

      Now Foods Joint Support Powder – 11 oz. This has the following in it:

      Gelatin (Hydrolyzed) 8 g
      Glucosamine Sulfate 1,100 mg
      MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane) 400 mg

      Unfortunately you see Hydrolyzed again, but I researched the use of Gelatin for supporting Joints and bought it based on that, and its working for me combined with the Naka product

      I also found a product specifically to address the KNEES, which I have bad knees to go along with the bad joints, and of course this is good for joints in general but many have reported it has really helped their knees, and that now includes me, I’ve been playing Tennis 2 or 3 times a week now and with no Knee Pain! This is the product:

      http://www.iherb.com/product-reviews/Neocell-Collagen-Joint-Complex-Containing-HA-Type-2-120-Capsules/8368/?p=1

      This has Natural Chicken Collagen Type 2 protein containing:

      Hyaluronic Acid (HA),
      Glucosamine,
      Chondroitin.

      Collagen 2 is the key structural protein in cartilage tissue, something we know has been ravaged by the FQ drug. This is similar to using Gelatin, but also has those other 2 key ingredients in big portions (I emailed company to find out just how much). I use the other products everyday, and use this one maybe twice a week.

      I also take a LOT of Fish Oil, which is great for Brain, Heart and joints and other things too.

      Hope that helps you and any others out there with bad joints, my joints are better now than they have been in the last 4 years. Of course if I stopped taking these things, well, I’m not going there for now playing Tennis and all but would sure like to one day (Tennis is incredibly hard on my joints playing on concrete really I should give it up and play Badminton, Squash and other things instead, but I love it too much).

    • Jason May 11, 2015 at 12:55 pm Reply

      Hi Again Mike. Do you also have fainting spells, and get light-headed standing up sometimes? Is there anything that can be done besides exercise? (I have fainted in past maybe once every 3 – 5 years)

      The more I look at this the more it seems you are on to something here for me. Thanks again I might have to arrange a trip to that Vanderbilt Autonomic dysfunction center

      • Jason May 11, 2015 at 1:10 pm Reply

        Do you also find you feel much crappier on days where Barometric pressure is low or falling? The last time I fainted the Ambulance crew figured my Blood pressure likely dropped through the floor, and it took awhile to come back up. It seems BP plays a big role here but the whole thing looks complex and not entirely understood yet

  7. Callen May 10, 2015 at 7:54 pm Reply

    I would like to add that apparently D3, Magnesium, K and K2 vitamins, all worth together and with body calcium, and they affect/need each other. Do research yourself, but be aware that in taking supplements, it’s a good idea to try to balance proper levels of these together, rather than just taking one of them alone.

    A couple of other quick tips:

    Aside from getting magnesium in your diet (a hard thing to do, since many chemicals are interfering with crops absorbing it from soil) and from supplement pills, you *can* also get some magnesium (and sulfur, apparently) from doing magnesium salt (Epsom’s salts) soaks—some gets absorbed through the skin. Be careful to balance any oral magnesium with these, if you’re doing the soaks on a daily basis.

    Second tip: I haven’t tried this yet myself, but I’ve seen a good bit on using organic egg shells as a calcium supplement (they’re supposed to be of a structure closest to our own and easily absorbed). The stuff I’ve seen suggests boiling them for 10 minutes to kill any germs on them, then dry on a cookie sheet in a 200 degree oven (you want them bone dry). Then use a coffee grinder to pulverize them to a powder. Some mix it with water or lemon juice and drink; others sprinkle it on food or put into gelatin capsules. Please google and check a few sources on this, and on how much to take per day. Given that a lot of commercial calcium pills are made from talc, this sounds like a great alternative.

  8. Josie klemett May 11, 2015 at 3:16 am Reply

    Hey you guys!
    I have a question. Have any of you suffered from vertigo sensations?
    I have really severe anxiety and I don’t know if my anxiety is causing the sensations.
    One day I read about someone being kind of dizzy and I started noticing things that made me dizzy and then from then on.. I’ve been dizzy all the time. Sometimes it feels like I’m on a boat.. :(

    • Daniela May 11, 2015 at 10:47 am Reply

      Same thing. It’s not anxiety and not ear rocks or infection. It’s called mal de débarquement syndrome, and they prescribe addictive sedatives for it, which sounds like the same sort of thing that got us here in the first place.
      The rocking causes the anxiety not the other way around. For me the anxiety just went away after a few years and hasn’t come back except for occasional insomnia. But I still have the rocking vertigo :(

      I’m trying to do yoga and meditation for it.

  9. Jason May 11, 2015 at 8:21 am Reply

    For all the people who have ANXIETY. I don’t know how this drug exactly affects the mind and body to bring that on, (other than just worrying about its effects which most definitely can all by itself in some people) as it did not affect me in that way and I did not research it. We do know the CNS is affected in some people, so this may go hand in hand with that.

    I suffered from Generalized Anxiety Disorder for maybe 6 – 8 years and would like to share my experience to hopefully help others. Whether you had some anxiety before taking these pills or not, people now suffering with anxiety should educate themselves more about it which I will try to help a little with. First off, please go to the following link and read about Anxiety and some great ways to keep it under control: http://www.helpguide.org/articles/anxiety/generalized-anxiety-disorder-gad.htm

    I too went to Emergency and Doctors several times worried I had something wrong with my heart, had the ECG’s etc and everything always came back “normal” yet I was having crazy “attacks” of racing heartbeat, heart feeling like it is going to beat out of my chest, etc. I was very scared I would have a heart attack, but I have not had these episodes now for 15 years or more. Maybe once a year I might get really pissed off, excited, or worried/scared enough to trigger a very small attack in me, which usually coincides with also having too much caffeine, but otherwise this is not an issue for me at all anymore.

    The first thing that helped me, was FINALLY one of the Doctor’s suggested that since everything seems ok physically I was very likely suffering from GAD. I thought, yeah right, damn Doctor’s, probably just want to give me more pills, etc, etc. I went home and researched more about it and yeah, it made total sense. Once I realized THIS is what I had, and there was nothing else actually wrong, the anxiety already improved a LOT. Just the acceptance, knowledge, realization of what was going on, did put me more at ease and then of course I educated myself on what things help, and what things make it worse. Worrying about what could be wrong with me before knowing definitely kept making it progressively worse and more intense so it was a big relief. Note that I never did take ANY pills for this, and in my unqualified (unquackified) opinion would strongly discourage it for most people, there are MUCH better natural ways to help yourself stay calm, and a lot of them. Rx pills are also not addressing the core problem, at all, they only address the symptoms and of course always come with many negatives and often create more problems.

    Once I knew what was going on, and was conscious of it, I could catch myself having a ‘panic attack’ (that is really what the racing pounding heart episodes are for GAD people anyway) and mentally bring it under control. Small things could trigger these attacks too, I still remember the time I was passing a car on the highway and there went my heartbeat up through the roof, but then I knew why, I was not going to have a heart attack, nothing was physically wrong with my heart, and then I could very quickly calm back down, and I got better and better at this. Chemical smells could bring on an attack, I was driving a Forklift one day all those years ago and breathing in the fumes over and over I was getting more and more WORRIED about it, and I had a massive attack, this was the one right before I knew what was going on and went to Hospital for it. There were a lot of things that can trigger these attacks, especially mentally, emotionally and learning more about the triggers also helped.

    So for all people who have anxiety, whether brought on from the drug, GAD, both, other life things, possibly adrenal issues (which someone should think about testing if nothing else fits and help tips are not working) or any other reason I highly highly recommend going to the link I put above as there are MANY excellent tips there on how to help. One of the biggest things that helped me besides awareness and education was avoiding sugar and caffeine. Back then I did not supplement (I’ll bet good Magnesium could do wonders) and even though I am not a big coffee or tea drinker I ate a fair bit of chocolate, and cutting this out made a HUGE difference (there are many sources of caffeine please google them) . In fact, if I drink some Jasmine Tea (LOVE this) and eat some chocolate for 2 or 3 days in a row, even now 15+ years later I will start having the heart palpitations for no reason at all, that is how critical avoiding sugar and caffeine are for me.

    I hope people with Anxiety of any kind will go to the link, really excellent information there that should be helpful

    • Rene May 11, 2015 at 1:54 pm Reply

      Hi Jason,
      Yes the GAD is real……and that is also why for you and others with high anxiety or panic attacks the GABBA – GLUTAMATE balance is crucial. Your experience tell you that certain substances exacerbate this issue. Being mindful of this is KEY…..as is adding the supports you need. And Excluding the triggers. CALCIUM will be a trigger if added as a supplement. MSG, Natural Flavors, Autolysed yeast & Protein, Hydrolysed Yeast & protein, Whey, Soy, (Glutamic acid, Glutamine in a supplement).

      Adding GABBA and or L-Theanine will assist this excess Glutamate floating around. Also avoid FOLIC ACID in supplements becuase is not converted very well and than sits around and ramps up the GLUTAMATE in the brain……hence over excitement and commencing anxiety, panic, jumpy thoughts, and even temper issues.

      • Elizabeth May 11, 2015 at 2:38 pm Reply

        I think I’m going to try those supplements. Thank you.

        So does anyone know what natural supplements are best for depression? I’m on Wellbutrin so I would need to be able to take it with that medicine.
        I’m on testosterone shots and while I do have low testosterone, I have found that it’s the only thing that helps my depression and I have to take it in high doses. I didn’t even know it was super dangerous until I came onto this site! I would like to be able to decrease my dose but I’m so lost as to how to go about this. Thank you.

        • Jason May 11, 2015 at 3:12 pm

          Please see here: http://www.earthclinic.com/cures/depression.html Please see Table of Contents on the right, and see on main page top rated cures. For sure on this one, again everyone can be a little different, what works for one person may not for another, so some experimentation may be necessary to find something or a combination of things that works for you. I was not depressed when I started taking Sam-E (was in a memory supplement I was taking in fairly big dose) but I can tell you this definitely elevated mood and energy for me for a few months (then like usually always happens with me my body adapted to it and the effect diminished and eventually did not happen anymore). St. John’s Wart has been used for this as well but be very careful buying this one, there are MANY fake supplements on the market (as with all supplements) and this one is now notorious for being fake (as in, there is NO actual St. John’s wart in the pills, instead rice fillers, wheat, other garbage)

          One of the best things for depression in my experience and from research is CBT, I bought a book called “Feeling Good, the new mood therapy” around 25 years ago when I was battling some depression and it was a great help. Its an excellent little book, invaluable really to anyone with depression. You can find it on Amazon and you’ll see it has 900 very positive customer reviews.

          Rene will hopefully chime in as well on those 2 subjects, I have no experience or knowledge of hormones and therapy.

        • Jason May 11, 2015 at 7:36 pm

          See here also http://www.hchs.edu/literature/CFS%20&%20Fibromyalgia.pdf

          Talking about studies done and things that help Chronic Fatigue Syndrome & Fibromyalgia which of course crosses over into Depression as well. (Some of the same things I mentioned and Earth Clinic points to help all three things)

          Someone on Amazon in the reviews for D- Ribose mentioned a good book I noticed, Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum’s Book “The Fatigue and Fibromyalgia Solution”.

          I picked up some D-Ribose tonight, I noticed that playing Tennis I get somewhat tired after 45-60 minutes which is NOT usual for me (could play 3 hours last year), so I’m thinking my Mitochondria are still suffering from this damn drug and I’m hoping this will help out.

        • Jason May 11, 2015 at 8:02 pm

          http://www.zen-tai.com/assets/u/fmcfs.pdf

          A pretty good 20 page write up with over 80 references in it, on alternative therapies to FM & CFS. Quote from key points:

          “Fibromyalgia treatment recommendations include cognitive behavioral therapy and graded exercise therapy, which can be used in conjunction with SAMe and 5-HTP

          The best evidence from clinical trials supports cognitive behavioral ther-
          apy and graded exercise therapy for treating CFS. The use sleep aids may be useful. Supplement therapies include L-carnitine, NADH, and possibly magnesium.

          Acupuncture, spinal manipulation and water injections are worth trying to
          treat low back pain. Use these in conjunction with analgesics and regular
          physical exercise. Keep up normal activity as much as possible and reass-
          sure patients that having back problems is not a disease but entirely normal”

        • Jason May 15, 2015 at 3:50 pm

          Here is another fast note on L-Theanine, and why it is so useful for many many things in the body, including even Depression.

          “Theanine’s connection to the suppression of glucocorticoids is through glutamate. Researchers have discovered that this natural component of brain chemistry, which is not traditionally associated with depression, in fact plays a major role. In people who are depressed, glutamate levels are out of balance. Preliminary studies show that blocking certain signals in the brain activated by glutamate may be as effective as prescription antidepressants. L-theanine may act as a glutamate antagonist. Researchers believe that glutamate receptor antagonists may offset the harmful effects of high glucocorticoid levels and offer neuroprotective effects against both acute and chronic neurodegenerative diseases.”

  10. Josie May 11, 2015 at 2:36 pm Reply

    Hey.
    I do not have MDDS. I haven’t been on any ship or anything.
    i’m actually PREGNANT! :) I’m 14 weeks.
    I was floxed a year ago I am not sure if anyone remembers me coming on here a lot, about body pain I was epxeriencing. I also still have the visual disturabces: Visual Snow, etc.
    but the anxiety is terrible and I think that’s what must be causing the boat feeling.

    • Daniela May 11, 2015 at 4:22 pm Reply

      You don’t have to have been on a boat, but there is an organisation on the internet that is devoted to Mdds acquired after a cruise and they really dominate the issue. It just means that you feel like you are on a boat when you are not and a lot of floxed people get it.
      But I understand what you mean, as it is frustrating to have each individual symptom looked at instead of doctors admitting we are floxed. I acquired this boat feeling 1-2 years after being floxed. The good part is that the anxiety went away one day last year — I actually felt like something melted in my solar plexus. I hope the same happens for you!
      In the meantime, lots of camomile, linden flower, lavender, valerian root. All of which are good for baby, too!!!!

      • Josie klemett May 11, 2015 at 6:46 pm Reply

        How has the boat feeling been for you? Seems to have calmed down as I have been relaxed today :)

        • Daniela May 12, 2015 at 9:07 am

          If you get relief through relaxation, focus on that and you will find your recovery !!!!

        • Josie klemett May 12, 2015 at 11:15 am

          Has the boat feeling subsided for you?

        • Daniela May 18, 2015 at 10:56 am

          no

  11. tricia May 11, 2015 at 4:24 pm Reply

    Is it possible to get refloxed from keflex??? I only took about 1,000mg….stopped cuz it gave me stomach cramps. I was feeling well on my way to recovery until I took this. All my tendon issues/ pain seemed to have returned w a vengeance: (

    • Daniela May 11, 2015 at 5:52 pm Reply

      Giving you stomach cramps is not a good sign! Easy does it with all pharma in the future. Maybe look into alternatives to antibiotics. Russian penicillin is a cut onion face down in a little sugar — it forms an oniony syrup that you take as a medicine. Raw garlic is good, too — minced and swallowed down with something to drink, after you’ve eaten a bit. Boil a bunch of oregano, careful the tea is really spicy!

  12. Jen May 12, 2015 at 1:20 pm Reply

    Question regarding HCL…so I understand that this will work if you don’t have enough acids in your stomach but what if the problem is too much acid?

    • Jason May 12, 2015 at 1:51 pm Reply

      There is a 80 – 90% chance you have low acid if you have heartburn, so there is that.

      There are also some easy tests to do at home to test yourself, one is with ACV, here is another one from quick google search:

      “To Perform the Test do the Following:

      Buy some Betaine HCL with pepsin (I like these)
      Eat a high protein meal of at least 6 ounces of meat
      In the middle of the meal take 1 Betaine HCL pill
      Finish your meal as normal and pay attention to your body

      There’s really only 2 outcomes from this test.

      The first is that you won’t notice anything. As you go about your normal life after the meal nothing will change. This means it is very likely you have low stomach acid levels.
      If as you go about your normal life and start to feel stomach distress characterized as heaviness, burning, or hotness – then these are signs that you don’t have low acid levels.”

      The thing is, nothing bad is really going to happen if it was in the very unlikely scenario you have too much acid, as it shows there, you may feel some discomfort that will pass. I would perform this test more than once to try and get accurate results. If someone is suffering from heartburn, just as Lisa was on last page, try popping a HCL pill, if it helps, likely you need more acid. If you get a little worse, well, you may have too much acid but its very unlikely. A few days ago I had this problem, and I needed to pop one at my next THREE meals to get rid of the damn heartburn, I don’t suffer often anymore but once in awhile it acts up.

      • Jen May 12, 2015 at 2:34 pm Reply

        Thanks Jason. Do you know if you can still do the above test without the high protein meal?

        • Linda Livingston May 12, 2015 at 2:47 pm

          needs to be protein…shoot for around 20 grams.

    • Jason May 12, 2015 at 2:01 pm Reply

      Here is the link I got that one from: http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/3-tests-for-low-stomach-acid/

      Note the Baking Soda test they site too, not sure how accurate it is but I am doing this every morning (to Alkalize) and IIRC I never belch so fail miserably, but then I already know I have very low acid and years of Nexium made it much worse, thanks Doc….. never even shared the commissions with me. Good people, those Doc’s….NOT :(

  13. mike May 12, 2015 at 1:31 pm Reply

    Hey Jason,

    Yes I get lightheaded upon standing up a lot and barometric pressure does seem to affect things.

    The two best remedies for NCS are high salt intake and drinking A LOT of water. I have never passed out fully but I live in a presyncopal state a lot. I have sort of general dizziness, lightheadedness and brain fog.

    All of these symptoms are intensified greatly if I am dehydrated. I try to exercise still about 1-2 times a week but in great pain from Cipro. I have to be ultra hydrated and down a salt pill or a handfull of salt with a midodrine 5mg before doing any exercising.

    Midodrine is a pressor which raises your BP.

    If I can get my joints to heal I can get my NCS condition back in control. I’m getting desperate here.

    • Jason May 12, 2015 at 1:53 pm Reply

      Thanks again Mike. Hope if you try some of those 3 products I mentioned they will work for you. If someone was only going to try one, I would go with Naka Nutri-Flex Supreme 500 ml, remember it takes from 2 – 4 weeks to really kick in.

  14. mike May 13, 2015 at 11:22 am Reply

    It’s been 3 1/2 years since Cipro and more things have gotten worse than better over time. Nothing has worked so far for me. I am starting to think of alternative treatments such as glutathione IV, Vitamin C IV, H2o2 IV, and stem cell therapy. Has anyone tried any of these?

    • Linda Livingston May 13, 2015 at 12:25 pm Reply

      Yes! I would find a naturopath that is highly recommended and start IVs. I have been doing Vitamin C, Phosphatydalcholine (may have misspelled that) Meyer Cocktail and H2O2. I do the first three with a “push” of glutathione at the end. My biggest problem, breathing issues is still a major issue, but I have seen some improvement in other areas, including peripheral neuropathy, back pain, and olfactory issues (grossly exaggerated sense of smell.) I also have done just one of the blood stem cell treatments so far…very expensive…but have borrowed to do it. I have only been doing these treatments for less than 3 months. I get IVs two times a week. Perhaps in you post what area you live in, you may got some referrals for a naturopath.

    • Rene May 14, 2015 at 11:46 am Reply

      Can I email you privately?

  15. Jen May 13, 2015 at 2:44 pm Reply

    Has anyone tried DGL for acid reflux?

    • Linda Livingston May 13, 2015 at 4:56 pm Reply

      Jen, I was using DGL before I tried the HCL Betaine, and it was helpful.

      • Jen May 13, 2015 at 7:17 pm Reply

        Linda, thank you for your response. I’m thinking of trying the DGL first. May I ask what your experience was with both the DGL and the HCL?

        • Linda Livingston May 13, 2015 at 8:30 pm

          Jen—DGL really helped me get through a rough GI period. Easy to take. It’s really not a long term solution though, like HCL. I started on the HCL because the naturopath I started seeing suggested it. The hard thing for me with the HCL was that he said to keep increasing the number until I felt a warmth in my stomach. Problem was—with all the GI issues I was having I had trouble determining just what that feeling was, among the other things I was experiencing. I made the mistake of going on line and reading from other people about other indicators, like discomfort, of when to stop increasing the dosage. Based on what I read, I started decreasing the dosage, which was a big mistake. When I finally did hit the right amount, it was indeed a very warm feeling in my stomach. If you do the HCL I would talk to someone first who really knows how to use it. (From the directions on my bottle, I wouldn’t have known.) But here is how my naturopath told me to use it. Take 1 capsule after a few bites into your meal (high protein). Do this with each meal of the day. If you do not feel that warm feeling, then the next day, do two capsules each meal. You take a couple bites first, so there is something to start working on. (If you are just having a snack, with little protein, just use one.) You keep doing this, adding a capsule with each meal, on each consecutive day, until you get a warm sensation in your stomach. That lets you know you have gone 1 capsule too far, and you go back to the prior number. I got up to five before that happened. Then I went back to four and stayed there until I got the warm feeling again, and went to three and so on. Eventually, your stomach will “learn” to make enough acid on its own.

        • Jason May 13, 2015 at 9:46 pm

          Hi Jen. Linda gave some great advice there, as I mentioned before there is nothing really to be scared of, I know it seems scary acid and all, but its exactly what is already in your stomach, and if your having heartburn, gas and other signs of digestion issues than its most likely you are low on acid and your stomach is working overtime, so could use the help (your pancreas could not be putting out enough enzymes either, which apparently is triggered by the acid in stomach)

          Please see this link: http://scdlifestyle.com/2013/10/4-common-betaine-hcl-mistakes/ Read very carefully what they put there, and make sure you go to the link in “Mistake 4″, for more specific instructions very similar to what Linda mentioned

          Those guys have a great website full of information that someone could spend a month on and learn A LOT about health. They also have a good free newsletter which I am signed up on.

        • Rene May 14, 2015 at 11:16 am

          I have used Betaine Hydrochloride for many years. I take 2 tablets with my meals that have protein…..so chicken, fish, meat, eggs. I do NOT take it at the beginning or after a few bites. I take it 1/2 -3/4 of the way through my meal so it will effectively digest what i have put in my stomach. It is nothing to be afraid of. Some people need more than 2 tablets, but start with a minimum dose, and see how you feel after a day or two. Your whole body will start to feel better once you are digesting better, and all the discomfort, that can ensue dissipates.

    • Heather May 15, 2015 at 7:39 pm Reply

      Hey Jen,

      I carry dgl chews around with me. They help me. For a more long term gut healing I take GI encap. I also take digestive enzyme with meals

      • Jen May 16, 2015 at 12:51 pm Reply

        Heather, I tried the DGL yesterday with dinner and today with lunch. It’s a little better but I still feel the burn in my chest… Not sure if I need to use it longer for better effect. My plan was to try the DGL first…plan 2 would Betaine Hydrochloric Acid with Pepsin. My fear is that I’d have to permanently rely on this supplements long term… Could you elaborate on the GI encap? Thank you.

        • Heather May 18, 2015 at 9:27 pm

          Hi Jen, so I do a few things regularly. First If its acting up I take GI encap by thorne which coats and heals the lining. I take two three times a day in between meals. Then when I do eat a meal I take davinci laboratories digestive enzyme chewable tablets after the last bite. I also do not eat dinner late, have coffee, greasy or spicy foods when the lining is irritated. Sometimes I’ll chew a dgl an hour after a meal too. When its better after following that for a couple weeks I maybe take the GI encap twice a week and digestive enzyme with dinner or a big meal only. And chew dgl here and there especially if I eat meat or anything that can irritate the lining.

  16. Peter May 13, 2015 at 3:35 pm Reply

    Been awhile since I’ve posted, but has anyone had issues of feeling beyond run down, sluggish, no energy? I haven’t had that issue before, now I feel like that everyday, for the lady month or so. It’s really concerning me. It is like everything is sore and tired nonstop.

    I’m less than a month from my two year anniversary

    • Jason May 13, 2015 at 10:07 pm Reply

      Hi Peter. Sounds a lot like a good ole’ Candida overun situation, which is all too common these days. Of course those same symptoms have about 300 other causes too, so its very very hard to tell what it could be from. Being its 2 years later and you never had it before it seems unlikely its directly from the FQ pills but I guess its possible, it just seems much more likely its a “bug”, fungus, or something else. Are you craving Sugar, have gas after eating? Everything being sore points to a potential inflammatory state, which Candida can cause if it is that. I think it was you that had issues in the throat, did you ever get rid of that? If not, again it could be from Candida or possibly another kind of infection which if untreated could spread and cause the symptoms you are pointing to. Its a shame Doctor’s are so useless these days, and we are always left to figure out problems on our own, which is beyond difficult. Good luck I hope you figure it out and get well soon

      • Peter May 13, 2015 at 11:05 pm Reply

        I was the one with issues before with the throat but I think I figured out why I did and still do from time to time. My not functioning nose! If my nose hasn’t drained, couldnt be blown for over a year, it’s not helping my throat. and then in December, my nose became even more clogged / not working. I think I’m getting post nasal drip due to this issue and causing my throat issues.

        I haven’t had the white tongue, but I still have the white mouth. I don’t feel like there is anything going on besides the medicine symptoms, but it could be. I’m so exhausted and run down. At first I thought it was a new lifting regiment, but now I feel like it’s been 1-1.5 months and not going away.

        I want to live a normal life, but new symptoms and this medicine prevents that. You try to ignore a symptom as nothing and after awhile you realize it’s not going away and can’t remember exactly when it started.

        • Jason May 14, 2015 at 8:02 am

          The failure of modern medicine runs deep, I mean if someone like you can not go to an ENT to get help then really the system is almost completely useless.

          I don’t remember if I suggested this before but I believe I did, please go to Amazon and search “Himalayan Institute Ceramic Neti Pot”. 761 people there who mostly love this thing for helping them with Nasal issues, and its only $12 and is a natural treatment!

          I would really want a 2nd opinion if it were me, bacterial/fungal infections are nothing to fool around with (can be quite dangerous in fact), and now that you are getting run down 2 + 2 does not equal a good picture here. I would want a culture swab at minimum if it were me, I think you may have had one before but damn you are suffering and there is a reason why. A good Naturalpath might be worth a visit too, try to find one with good reviews if you go see one, really if it were me I would do this as you really need to get to the bottom of this damn issue with Nose and Mouth. Good luck and don’t give up!

        • Peter May 15, 2015 at 4:16 pm

          Thanks for the input Jason. I’ll look into all that. My biggest great with the nettipot is if one nostril ia so plugged nothing gets through, it might not help and get stuck. My own belief it’s it’s either massive inflammation or something is growing in there and clogging it. But I don’t know.

          This fatigue had been going on for a month or so and has me perplexed. I feel horrible. It’s always something new every few weeks or months with this illness. I struggle to see any light at the end of the tunnel. Almost two years later and each day is still worse than the last. It’s pouring a bad strain on my body and my health.

  17. Jen May 13, 2015 at 10:14 pm Reply

    Linda and Jason, thank you so much for your responses! I seem to be having mild to moderate symptoms pretty much throughout the day…on empty stomach and awhile after I’ve eaten. Even when I don’t eat protein with my meals. Since they say to take HCL only when you have a protein meal to aid in protein digestion it’s a little confusing for me. I really don’t want to go to my doctor because I know she will just tell me to take the ranitidine or omeprazole. When I used to get acid reflux flare-ups I would take the omeprazole twice a day before meals and once I got better I would discontinue the meds. It’s been well over a year since I last took them but last week I had a really bad flare-up and my first instinct was to take the meds but then since being floxed I’m afraid when it comes to meds. I’m 9 mos out. Thank you both again…

  18. Jason May 14, 2015 at 7:44 am Reply

    Hi Jen. Yes I am no different than you in that respect symptom-wise, my most common time to have heartburn is always right before bed, which is usually and hopefully at least 3 or better 4 hours after eating. If I am having a “bout” of it, then I will wake up with it, and it can carry on through the day where only actually putting food in there shuts it up.

    I’ve taken the HCL on empty stomach before but I guess its not recommended by them as part of a “protocol”. It makes sense, that on a very light meal or empty stomach you really shouldn’t need extra acid but note, really we are now talking about two different things now; treating the underlying issue to help long term with a protocol, vs. just treating a bout of symptoms to alleviate them short term.

    When in doubt, always check with our friends at EC with a quick google search:

    http://www.earthclinic.com/cures/heartburn.html

    I agree with you that if you go to your MD, 90% chance he will say take Rx since 9 out of 10 Doctors are just “pill pushers for profit” always treating symptoms. If someone just wants a short term alternative to that, you have 7 pages of people trying natural cures commenting on what has worked best for them at the link above. I think I and others listed a few other things last page too, not sure if I mentioned it but Ginger is reported to work in many forms and I have done this with success before also.

    I’ve tried DGL before too, here is a note about it from one website: Quote” The natural solution for ulcers, deglycyrrhizinated licorice root (DGL), can also be an effective acid reflux treatment. The suggested dose of DGL is two tablets, chewed about 20 minutes before meals, three times a day or it can be taken shortly before bedtime if you suffer mostly from nighttime acid reflux. Use only chewable DGL—it must be mixed with saliva in order to be effective.”

  19. Diego May 15, 2015 at 9:13 am Reply

    I have to get two crowns done. Anyone have procedure done without anesthesia?

    • Linda Livingston May 15, 2015 at 9:30 am Reply

      During the worst part of my floxing, with SEVERE breathing difficulties, I had a crown come out. Because of the breathing, I didn’t know how on earth I could keep my mouth open. I had a xanax left from a trip (plane/claustrophobia) and I took that and was able to make it through. Something else I want to mention here though. When it happened, my naturopath urged me to see a holistic dds…one who is Huggins trained. They use safer procedures and materials that are free of toxins. The one I ended up with really wasn’t much more expensive than my old dentist, and I am so glad I went. (I would also mention that I have read you should avoid nitrous oxide) The dds I went to uses a different kind of local anesthetic that is again, more holistic.

      • Daniela May 16, 2015 at 10:40 am Reply

        Linda, what is the anaesthetic…I was severely refloxed by a dental shot and i have not found anyone who will not use the same or related formula, a caine plus epinephrine.

        • Linda Livingston May 16, 2015 at 12:32 pm

          Daniela, I don’t know the actual name of it, but I am guessing it might not even be available with a regular dentist. It is also not just the anesthetic that is of concern though, it is also the materials used for the crown and also how the procedures are done. I would google to try to find a holistic dentist if you can. Here are some ways to find one. Holistic and Alternative Dental Resources
          http://www.IAOMT.org
          http://www.ccrlab.com
          http://www.UnderstandingOzone.com
          http://www.HugginsAppliedHealing.com
          http://www.who.int (search for dental amalgam)
          http://www.biocomplabratories.com
          (The Huggins applied healing I have been told is the gold standard for training.)

        • Daniela May 17, 2015 at 3:52 pm

          My reaction was immediate upon injection of the caine + epinephrine, and it hasn’t gone away for several years. Could you please tell me what the alternate anesthesia is?

        • Linda Livingston May 17, 2015 at 4:37 pm

          Again, I don’t know the actual name. I would advise you to find a dentist trained in the Huggins method. They can tell you what the actual name is. Then you could call and find out if your dentist uses it. But personally, I would go to someone who uses all materials that are more holisitic.

        • Debs May 17, 2015 at 4:18 pm

          Thought you might be interested in this Daniela

          http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/761714

        • Daniela May 18, 2015 at 8:54 am

          Thanks, Deb, but the link is just a login. What were you linking to?

          Linda, I’ve contacted so many of these dentists but they won’t speak to me about anesthesia unless I come in, and they are not in my area. Could you ask your dentist what you used? It would be a great help to me to have some suggestion of what a floxed person has used successfully.

        • Linda Livingston May 18, 2015 at 1:34 pm

          Daniela, I just called an was told it was mepivacaine. Here is a study too suggesting both that and procaine are safer alternatives. Hope you can find a DDS to offer it and that it does not increase your side effects. (It did not for me, but my entire body was pretty damaged, so not sure I would have even noticed.)

        • Linda Livingston May 18, 2015 at 1:35 pm

          oops…forgot to put in the link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12818948

        • Daniela May 18, 2015 at 9:08 am

          Is the medication midazolam (also known as dormicum, versed, related to rohypnol)? If so, I can see why no one will speak to me because these are very strong benzodiazepines with a high incidence of addiction/abuse. I was hoping you knew of something milder. I find that dentists really want to knock you out for THEIR sake, not yours.

        • Debs May 18, 2015 at 3:23 pm

          Whoops don’t know what happened Daniela lol I will try to find it elsewhere when I have a moment . it was a study on neurotoxicity / nerve damage caused by articaine.

        • Heather May 18, 2015 at 9:30 pm

          Daniella you can definitely get just a Caine. They should be able to offer you that option. Unfortunately I can’t tolerate just the Caine even at a third of the dose.

        • Daniela May 19, 2015 at 3:42 am

          Thank you Linda! It’s really abominable that we all have to figure this out on our own, and I greatly appreciate you going to the trouble to call up and find out what they used. At least I have something to say when the next emergency strikes.

          Heather, I am afraid I’ll probably find out “the hard way” I can’t tolerate any -caine, too. I can’t even tolerate cookies! Thanks Cipro.

          Thanks, Debs. Really those researchers should talk to me. I’ve had several years of intense vertigo after that stuff and no doctor or dentist has reported it.

        • Debs May 21, 2015 at 1:50 am

          Similarity of rohypnol to other benzos for you. Daniela.

          http://www.drugs.com/illicit/rohypnol.html

        • Linda Livingston May 21, 2015 at 7:40 am

          Daniela, you’re welcome…and Debs—wow, haven’t heard rohypnol in a long time. I used to do community education/public speaking on sexual assault and prevention. Rohypnol was (is?) the most commonly used date rape drug.

  20. Jen May 15, 2015 at 10:37 am Reply

    Thank you Jason and Rene.

  21. Rene May 15, 2015 at 11:07 am Reply

    Here is a very interesting link to a short German documentary regarding the Vaccine issue. For those that want to learn more about this subject, and are of mind that these new vaccines that are being marketed to adults and causing equally severe injuries as fluoroquinolones, for everything from Gardasil, and the flu. The science is important, especially when it has not been intercepted and distorted to favor profit for the manufacturers.

    http://www.we-dont-vaccinate.com/watch/

    • Jason May 15, 2015 at 11:31 am Reply

      I don’t give a #(&#( what anyone says, I have never taken a Vac and never will. I’ve never had the flu either, ever, and I’m almost 50. Why won’t I take them?

      Common substances found in vaccines include:

      Aluminum – gels or salts of aluminum which are added as adjuvants to help the vaccine stimulate a better response. Adjuvants help promote an earlier, more potent response, and more persistent immune response to the vaccine.

      Antibiotics – which are added to some vaccines to prevent the growth of germs (bacteria) during production and storage of the vaccine. No vaccine produced in the United States contains penicillin.

      Egg protein – is found in influenza and yellow fever vaccines, which are prepared using chicken eggs. Ordinarily, persons who are able to eat eggs or egg products safely can receive these vaccines.

      Formaldehyde – is used to inactivate bacterial products for toxoid vaccines, (these are vaccines that use an inactive bacterial toxin to produce immunity.) It is also used to kill unwanted viruses and bacteria that might contaminate the vaccine during production. Most formaldehyde is removed from the vaccine before it is packaged.

      Monosodium glutamate (MSG) and 2-phenoxy-ethanol – which are used as stabilizers in a few vaccines to help the vaccine remain unchanged when the vaccine is exposed to heat, light, acidity, or humidity.

      Thimerosal is a MERCURY-containing preservative – that is added to vials of vaccine that contain more than one dose to prevent contamination and growth of potentially harmful bacteria.

      This is directly from the CDC folks, that is EXACTLY what is in there, no BS, no maybe, or yeah right its just more conspiracy theories, etc. FROM THE HORSES MOUTH (there is other junk too, those are just the worst in most cases)

      http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

      I hope people don’t need education on just how bad those ingredients are, were talking some of the worst neuro-toxins in the World, poisons, antibiotics, good grief. These things have harmed way more people than they have ever helped over the years, which includes my own Mother sadly who has permanent injury from many years ago

    • Linda Livingston May 15, 2015 at 1:49 pm Reply

      Rene, well, glad to know someone in Germany is on the other side (cipro is made by the German company Bayer.) And Jason, I wish I hadn’t. I bought into the whole flu shot because I have asthma and was told I NEEDED to get it. Turns out that the flu shot is actually not even as effective for the people they try to sell it to—those with respiratory disease and adults over 50. The more I learn the more cynical I am of western medicine. You may already know this Jason, but I just found out that Rockefeller created the AMA donated large amounts of money to medical schools so that he could peddle the chemical drugs. In order to accept the funds, the schools had to agree to call all naturopathic doctors “quacks” (and you still see that being done today.) Interestingly, Rockefeller himself never took chemical drugs—only naturopathic. Now we see what a huge monster Big Pharma has become, creating new “illnesses” to be able to sell new drugs (hopefully ones people need to take for life.) The result? The U.S. is one of the unhealthiest major countries in the world.

      • Jason May 15, 2015 at 3:09 pm Reply

        No I didn’t Linda thanks for the history lesson. You prompted me to do a little googling to find out more and I ran into this guy (again) who used to work for Big Pharma, got disgusted, and now just promotes true ways to health. He goes into great detail for anyone interested of the whole “scheme” here:

        http://thepeopleschemist.com/how-the-ama-hooks-you-on-drugs-harms-your-health-and-hurts-the-earth/

        Quote “In 1910, with support from John D. Rockefeller and the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, the AMA funded Abraham Flexner with a grant to travel with the secretary of the AMA Council on Medical Education to medical schools then in existence. This pushed medical education to the forefront of America’s public health agenda. The project resulted in Flexner’s famous report, “Medical Education in the United States and Canada,” which became a catalyst for a historic shift in thinking, which ultimately positioned their medical ideals as scientifically superior to all others. The birth of the AMA tyranny, known technically as “allopathic medicine,” was officially born—and surgery, vaccines and drugs became the primary health option for Americans.”

        So the corruption goes wayyyyy back, I wondered about this. You know, people talk about 3rd World countries, Latin America, etc and how corrupted they are, and they are, but honestly how much more corrupted can a Country be who is “poisoning their own people for profit” through Doctors and the “trusted” Medical System with drugs and vaccines, through the food and water, GMO’s now for Pete’s sake, I mean really. Then we could start talking about the corruption in the Stock Market and overall Financial System too, Corporate World, and lump on even more things, and at the end of the day all this corruption points in one big direction, the government. I can’t imagine a Country more corrupted the US of A, but there might be.

        • Linda Livingston May 15, 2015 at 3:21 pm

          yeah, I had actually read some of people’s chemist blogs before. Imagine how hard it would have been to dispute any of the AMA’s pronouncements before the internet. Yes, the corruption is endemic in the U.S. And unfortunately, I think until something like this (floxing) happens to you, you go with the status quo. And here is another link about the “made up illnesses” to create more drug sales. (It’s not enough to take a pill for depression—now you “need” a second pill to help the first pill. It’s not enough to take one asthma inhler…now you need a second one to help the first one.) http://www.alternet.org/story/146471/8_invented_diseases_big_pharma_is_banking_on

        • Jason May 15, 2015 at 3:44 pm

          My Mom has 2 asthma inhalers, but she is too old and stubborn to listen, and still believes Doctors and Medicine are looking out for her best interests, even though she’s been a victim more than once, and I bombard her with evidence to the contrary

          Here is another great article on the history of the AMA (American Murderer Association, as they put it)

          http://www.cancertruth.net/ama-history/

          Note that I have the book the owner of the website wrote, “Cancer-Step Outside the Box 6th Edition”, and its an excellent excellent book that goes into great detail about Cancer, and the numerous (yes, numerous) ways to cure it naturally. It also goes into great detail about toxins like Fluoride, Mercury, many others, which foods need to be avoided, good overall supplements and herbs, Cleanses, Dr. Hulda Clark, Budwig Diet, and much much more. This guy lost 7 people he loved to Cancer and decided enough was enough and went into research-mode, then wrote the book.

          THIS ONE BOOK COMPILES MOST OF THE KNOWN WAYS TO CURE CANCER NATURALLY ALL IN ONE PLACE!!!

          If you or someone you love has Cancer, you need this book NOW and really, if you want to avoid Cancer, you should also have it so that means everyone needs it, its that important.

        • Linda Livingston May 15, 2015 at 4:14 pm

          Jason—yesterday while getting my IV drip a woman was there who told me she had been given a drug that was actually curing her cancer…and then it became “unavailable.” Too good I guess. Yes, these threads could go on and on (and don’t get me started on fluoride..grrr.)

        • Jason May 15, 2015 at 5:14 pm

          Okay, won’t :) I’m glad you’re up to speed on the dreaded “F” word then, I littered nearly 25% of a page here at FH with a ton of info on that garbage here http://floxiehope.com/comment-page-28/#comments starting about 1/3 of the way down, and then really went hard core on it about 1/2 way down when the possible effects of it in this drug, in the water etc were being downplayed. Anyone not up to speed on yet another terrible LIE and way Humans are being poisoned should take a look there. Don’t fall into yet another fraud and poisoning for profit

    • Jason May 22, 2015 at 7:16 am Reply

      This is a pretty hilariously written article, but still shares the serious facts:

      http://www.naturalnews.com/049797_Vaccine-induced_brain_damage_syndrome_cognitive_impairment_mercury.html

      • Jason May 22, 2015 at 7:35 am Reply

        I thought this technical reply to that article might interest some people here, as it seems “Floxie Brain” is not too far off from “Chemo Brain” and “Vax Brain”:

        Russell L Blaylock, MD

        “The link between “chemo brain” and vaccines is not as direct as implied but in many ways can share mechanisms. The main effects of serial, multiple vaccines on the brain is secondary to a process called immunoexcitotoxicity. Likewise the effects of both mercury and aluminum (as well as LPS in the adjuvant) is to prime the brain’s microglia (the brain’s primary immune cell and main source of glutamate). The subsequent vaccine will alter this primed microglia, which is in a state of increase production of immune elements and glutamate, and cause it to become fully activated. This results in a release of immune cytokines, chemokines and other immune elements and glutamate in very high concentrations (about 2x to 3x higher than non-primed microglia). The result within the brain is a progressive destruction of synapses, dendrites and axon elements that causes impairment of cognitive function as well as a host of other neurological symptoms and signs referred to as sickness behavior. And it can result in neurodegeneration of specific areas of the brain, primarily the hippocampus and prefrontal cortical areas. This can, in the child, result in a malformed brain and symptoms of ADHD and in very severe cases, autism spectrum disorder. In adults, it can result in encephalitis syndromes and in depression, anxiety, panic syndrome, suicidal thoughts and worsening of addictions. There is compelling evidence that it can also result in progressive neurodegeneration sysndromes such as Alzheimer’s dementia, Parkinson’s and ALS. All of this data has been published by experts in neurosciences. I have published at least 8 articles, all on Pubmed, and co-authored a book on this process in autism spectrum disorders. (The Cellular and Molecular Basis of Autism Spectrum Disorders (Strunecka A –editor). So,there is compelling evidence of danger of such large numbers of vaccines, yet the proponents of the vaccine policy continue to ignore the powerful evidence.”

  22. Debs May 15, 2015 at 2:45 pm Reply

    As per usual, my suggestion when researching anything, is to ALWAYS follow the history or the subject you are researching back to the source as far as possible, this is where the truth can often be found.

    For anyone interested in looking into vaccines I highly recommend getting hold of the book ‘ Dissolving illusions ‘, by Dr Suzanne Humphries / Roman Bystrianyk. This rather unconventional book is a real eye opener, detailing information, facts /figures from long overlooked medical journals / books & many other sources.

    • Linda Livingston May 15, 2015 at 4:17 pm Reply

      Deb–read the Amazon blurb. Looks very interesting. Thanks.

    • Jason May 15, 2015 at 5:29 pm Reply

      Holy smokes Anti-Vaxers were picketing in 1919 in Toronto! Found the book in my library and seen this pic near the front: http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=b04c757ae6b31410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

      That is a almost a 100 years of opposition that started long long before the Internet, and yet again shows why the Government, the ones holding all the strings, are really the ones behind all the corruption.

      • Debs May 15, 2015 at 6:21 pm Reply

        Vaccination itself goes way back, much further than that Jason. The first endeavour at vaccination was actually in 1717, christened variolation which began with one lady Mary Wortley Montague in respect of smallpox, The medical profession has in fact supported vaccination since the late 1700s. Enforced vaccination for smallpox has actually been carried out in the past & was being enforced in the UK from 1853 eventually people were being imprisoned /fined, for refusing. I suggest to look into the anti vaccination demonstration at Leicester, the great demonstration of March 23rd 1885. also research the Leciester method . I think you would be very interested in that book I mention above.

        • Jason May 16, 2015 at 12:47 am

          Yes of course Debs, but what I do find surprising is the movement against them started so long ago, and as you point out even longer than 100 years. So even way back then, when there were more prevalent health issues to be wary of, not everyone was on board with them and we had “Anti-Vaxers” as they’re now called rebelling against the whole notion. I wonder what kind of junk was put in them back then, or if people were just against the whole principle of it all (or both), I mean back then surely it was not made public how these vaccines were even concocted which is one reason why I find it a little surprising.

        • Jason May 16, 2015 at 12:59 am

          I mean now they openly admit to Mercury, Formaldehyde, Aluminum etc being in there so its no surprise really that many people don’t want to take them these days, but way back then it does kind of surprise me

  23. Mark May 15, 2015 at 3:46 pm Reply

    Anyone here developed problems with allergies to pets after Cipro? I mean being fine around cats for example prior to Cipro and afterwards not anymore. Just asking out of curiosity. :)

    Mark

    • Lisa Bloomquist May 15, 2015 at 8:56 pm Reply

      I reacted to everything, including my cat, when I first got floxed. My dad had to take my cat for a few months until I could stop breaking out in a rash when I touched him. I’m not sure what made my reactivity (to everything, not just the cat) calm down, but it did calm down. He’s purring on my lap right now.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a connection between FQ toxicity and mast cell activation issues.

  24. Debs May 16, 2015 at 2:17 am Reply

    Well yes, what exactly contaminated the early vaccines in anyones guess. In respect to Leicester, people who lived there of course saw their friends, relatives, children dropping like flies from smallpox despite being inoculated. despite a high vaccination rate. From the earliest days of vaccination people were opposing the law, as so many children suffered severe health issues & died after the procedure was carried out. I suppose a bit like throwing a stone into a pond creating a ripple of dissent which just gets bigger.

    http://www.whale.to/a/biggs.html

    • Jason May 16, 2015 at 9:03 am Reply

      Thanks Debs that sure explains a lot then. Its a real shame that all these Millions and Billions spent aren’t truly being used to help Mankind, but instead are only used to make more Billions and Trillions and actually always end up hurting Mankind :(

  25. Jason May 16, 2015 at 1:30 pm Reply

    Has anyone here that has confirmed they are hyper-sensitive to MSG (and all hidden sources) after the drug ever had this effect diminish and are no longer “hyper-sensitive”????

    I have confirmed my GABAA-receptors are screwed up from these drugs as I am now hyper-sensitive to this bluddy MSG where I was not before. I have done some testing with Whey products and Hydrolyzed products and they now cause my MASSIVE brain fog of ridiculous proportions where before I was using these same products without this ill effect. Definitely not happy about this, products I am using for my joints that work are now no good for me :(

    Jeepers more research to do on how to possibly deal with this now. Lisa, Rene, Debs, anyone, any knowledge of what can be done other than “avoidance” and have Gaba and L-Theanine constantly on hand to take and for when you inadvertently ingest the stuff? Have studies shown this is permanent damage? I have not looked into this yet

    • Lisa Bloomquist May 16, 2015 at 1:58 pm Reply

      Cannabis may help – http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/57153. If you’re not in a state where it’s legal, you can get hemp-derived CBD oil from Amazon. CBD oil has helped many floxies. I’m in Colorado where it’s totally legal. I’m attempting to like the stuff but it doesn’t do good things to/for me.

      • Heather May 18, 2015 at 10:08 pm Reply

        Hey Lisa,

        So I’m kind of confused about what that lady replying to the last recovery story was trying to say about EDS. Was she/he even soneone who is floxed? But it is funny that I have had three doctors say I may want to get tested for that. I wonder if there are forms of connective tissue disease that predispose you to a reaction from fluoroquinolones. I haven’t got tested yet, have to go to Yale if I want to bother. An underlying genetic problem I guess would make sense.

        • Lisa Bloomquist May 19, 2015 at 7:14 pm

          Heather, in regards to your question about EDS being triggered, I honestly don’t know. I agree with what Rene said, that existing genetic vulnerabilities are exacerbated by FQs. I have no doubt that all floxies have difficulty tolerating FQs and other drugs because of defective CYP 450 enzymes or MTHFR snps or some other gene-based reason. I suspect that the gene-based issues that floxies have are epigenetic, rather than base genetic (word?). Our genetic issues were dormant before the FQ brought them out and they likely would have stayed dormant if we hadn’t taken a FQ. I suppose that it’s possible that everyone who is hurt by a fluoroquinolone has a dormant connective tissue disorder (like EDS), and that connective tissue disorder is brought out by the FQ. There is certainly some sort of genetic predisposition component to fluoroquinolone toxicity. However, it should be noted that there aren’t any connections in any of the research literature between FQs and EDS, so I’m doubtful that FQ toxicity is actually expressed EDS. I think that the path of epigenetic changes triggered by FQs is fascinating, and a little horrifying, though.

    • Rene May 19, 2015 at 12:27 am Reply

      Again, my belief has always been that whatever vulnerabilities that you may have with your biochemistry, either exploited or created…..they can be mitigated by understanding the precise ratio of ones chemistry…..by attending to the amino acid balance, minerals and trace minerals. First, and mostly, speak words of healing and restoration over your circumstances. I have had many challenges with my health due to Cipro and long before that with Lyme disease. Yes L-theanine and Gaba are needed supports for supporting the excessive amounts of Glutamate…..as well as magnesium, 5HTP, Grape Seed extract….and diet. The balance will not be met unless the contributors of MSG, Natural Flavors, Hydrolysed Protein or Yeast, Whey, Glutamine, chewing gum..etc. are removed for a substantial length of time. This can take several weeks or months…. ADD, ADHD, and mood swings, tired & wired are all reflections of that. Brain Fog is gut issues most likely….Candida. Both are likely issues.

      The most profound and endlessly helpful blessing has been my belief in God, and his healing power and guidance, discernment. This lead me through many many valleys, and discoveries….that revealed the truth to me about what i needed, how to proceed, and to the person or people that played a part in my recovery. I could not accept that I could not improve my health and quality of life. Nobody would ever be as devoted to my recovery, as my own invested love for life. I am so grateful, for the improvements that i have gained, and though the journey was not what i envisioned for my life….and even criticized by family for being overly fixated on my health? I slowly bit by bit, regained my health. Yes with my own vulnerabilities, but I am alive, and very much a warrior for good. I do not see myself as defective, or damaged, or messed up, or any of those things. I know how to take care of myself, and continue to learn even now. yes, I did get injured, and the pain was horrific. Yes I was disabled. But now, I can do most things. No wheelchair or cane. All of these challenges over 17 years of my life…brought all that is precious crystallized in my heart and how I see life. What ever condition I have found myself in, my identity is rooted in what God says which was whole lot better than anyone else had to say.

      Respectfully, Jason you have a great spirit and your Gaba receptors need your support as does the rest of your blessed vessel. Your Gaba receptors as the rest of all parts of you will respond to your words. In Jesus name, I pray for all your receptors, and signalling to be fully restored and made whole. That clarity of thought and balance be restored, and that your words and thoughts line up with healing and all that is in your heart. That you turn from all and any thoughts, imaginations or printed words that say otherwise. Amen.

      • Jason May 19, 2015 at 6:31 pm Reply

        Thanks Lisa and Rene. Cannabis definitely not an option for me I am inactive addict and don’t want to start back on that road to destruction!

        Rene thanks for the extra tips and info there, and your prayer very thoughtful of you. I definitely believe in the power of positive thinking, and in the power of God as I am also religious, but I’ve been praying for an answer to my 25+ year brain fog issue (I’ve killed Candida many times over and done so many other things too) forever and still don’t fully know WTF is causing it, so have learned not to rely on just faith. This also reminds me of this cute but very true little tale as well: http://epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme.html

        I may have found one additional concrete thing someone can do, Bacopa. This is actually in one of the mind supplements I’m currently taking so I’ll report if it seems effective for the Gabba receptors and lessons my MSG sensitivity. I have only done a little research so far on the whole subject but found the following: (note it was not a reliable source and have not verified the validity of these statements yet)

        Quote:

        “BACOPA MONNIERI in fact might prove very helpful, since this has been shown in studies firstly to NOT be a GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST, but has in fact be shown to upregulate down-regulated GABA receptors, which means it could prove highly useful in helping to treat recovery from GABA RECEPTOR AGONIST ADDICTION:

        Epilepsy Behav. 2010 Apr;17(4):441-7. Epub 2010 Feb 11.

        Behavioral deficit and decreased GABA receptor functional regulation in the cerebellum of epileptic rats: effect of Bacopa monnieri and bacoside A.

        Mathew J, Peeyush Kumar T, Khan RS, Paulose CS.

        Abstract
        In the present study, the effects of Bacopa monnieri and its active component, bacoside A, on motor deficit and alterations of GABA receptor functional regulation in the cerebellum of epileptic rats were investigated. Scatchard analysis of [(3)H]GABA and [(3)H]bicuculline in the cerebellum of epileptic rats revealed a significant decrease in B(max) compared with control. Real-time polymerase chain reaction amplification of GABA(A) receptor subunits-GABA(Aalpha1), GABA(Aalpha5,) and GABA(Adelta)-was downregulated (P<0.001) in the cerebellum of epileptic rats compared with control rats. Epileptic rats exhibit deficits in radial arm and Y-maze performance. Treatment with B. monnieri and bacoside A reversed these changes to near-control levels. Our results suggest that changes in GABAergic activity, motor learning, and memory deficit are induced by the occurrence of repetitive seizures. Treatment with B. monnieri and bacoside A prevents the occurrence of seizures thereby reducing the impairment of GABAergic activity, motor learning, and memory deficit.

        PMID: 20153260"

        Source:
        Department of Biotechnology, Molecular Neurobiology and Cell Biology Unit, Centre for Neuroscience, Cochin University of Science and Technology, Kerala, India.

        • Rene May 19, 2015 at 11:46 pm

          Yes, i have used BACOPA from Thorne Research, the first year of my injury along with 5HTP.

  26. Mary Hop May 17, 2015 at 7:44 am Reply

    Ok, I am jumping subjects a bit here but have a question about magnesium. I am taking 600-800 mg magnesium citrate and it really made a difference in many area. Researched more and found MagMind and want to try that since I have CNS symptoms. So….here is my questions. Since it is more absorbable, do I take it alone or do I take the citrate to equal my 600-800 mg? The Mag mind is just 144mg. but from 2000 mg of magtien which I found confusing. Tried googling some info but did not come up with the answer to my question. I thought maybe someone here might know or at least have an educated guess.

    • Jason May 19, 2015 at 7:17 pm Reply

      Hi Mary. A quick google search would show that the recommended daily intake of Mag is about 300 to 420mg for “normal adults”. This guy http://drhyman.com/blog/2010/05/20/magnesium-the-most-powerful-relaxation-mineral-available/#close says that “Most people benefit from 400 to 1,000 mg a day.”

      Now of course no one here is “normal” either, and we know this drug robs our bodies of Magnesium and many Floxies who have actually went to get tested for it found they are indeed deficient. So how does that translate into dosage for a Floxie? Unfortunately I don’t know the answer to that one, all I can tell you is I took a LOT of Mag and different kinds of it when my symptoms were active and bad and it helped immensely, especially the Ancient Minerals Magnesium Oil.

      My understanding of the MagMind supplement from their website is that 3 capsules are giving you 144mg of Elemental Mag derived from Magnesium L-Threonate, or also called Magtein. As it shows on the bottle, this is 35% of RDV, so it “looks” to be 144mg in total. What I find confusing is how other manufacturers are representing basically the exact same product, as they show 144mg (same) but then also show 2000mg of magtein on a separate line as well (like my brand Source Naturals). Note however the serving size is the same, as is the RDV so I think this is what is important, and just to follow the recommendation and take 3 pills which is most likely only giving you 144mg in total (as RDV would indicate).

      If it was me, I would take 3 caps of Magmind, I would take some citrate AND I would use the AM Mag Oil as well (transdermal absorption is superior I believe), and try to equal the desired level with all 3. I also highly recommend making the very cheap and easy Magnesium Bicarbonate water for people that really want an absorbable form of Mag, if you google “waller water” the instructions how to do this are on a pdf in the 1st or 2nd result. I am finding the Magtein is really working for me to improve my horrible horrible memory, its only been a couple weeks and I’m not taking it everyday or all 3 pills (I should be) but its definitely working.

      • Jason May 19, 2015 at 7:23 pm Reply

        http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/12/08/magnesium-health-benefits.aspx

        Quote “Fluoride Very Effectively Drains Your Body of Magnesium. Of particular concern is fluoride, which is used in a variety of different drugs. Fluoroquinolone antibiotics like Cipro are the most well known for their fluoride content and its associated problems. But fluoride is also added to other drugs, including certain cholesterol medications, anti-anxiety drugs, and painkillers for arthritis, for example. Magnesium binds to fluoride to form magnesium fluoride, and that very effectively drains magnesium from your body.”

    • Jason May 19, 2015 at 7:25 pm Reply

      http://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/Item01603/Neuro-Mag-Magnesium-L-Threonate?mkwid=suUVwGTFM&crid=60948896603&mp_kw=%2Bmagnesium%20%2Bl-threonate&mp_mt=b&gclid=CP7n6Pabz8UCFQmTaQodYlAAJQ

      This may clarify the question a little more, Quote “The suggested daily dose of three Neuro-Mag™ Magnesium L-Threonate capsules provides 2,000 mg of magnesium L-threonate. While this supplies a modest 144 mg of elemental magnesium, its superior absorption into the bloodstream and nervous system make it a preferred supplemental choice. ”

      So as I alluded to, you are getting 144mg of elemental Mag which is the key factor

      • SM May 19, 2015 at 9:17 pm Reply

        Jason- Just curious. When you say you were taking a lot, how much? I take about 500 mg per day as supplements. I also do transdermal, maybe 20 sprays per day. I was doing 50-60 a few weeks back. My nerves feel a bit calmer. I still have plenty of pain.

        • Jason May 20, 2015 at 7:56 am

          Hi SM. Well I never actually tracked it I just kind of listened to my body (which was talking very loudly, I had PN and or tremors shooting up and down my legs 4 days a week, joint, tendon, muscle soreness everywhere etc) and I was in hard core PANIC mode, I really didn’t want any lasting injuries so I was taking a boatload of supplements in the beginning starting day 1 and that included about 8 different kinds of MAG, as I felt Mag was probably THE most important supplement I could take after all the research I did. Here are all the different kinds I took:

          – Ancient Minerals Magnesium Oil (Oil is more potent than Lotion)
          – Ancient Minerals Magnesium Oil with MSM
          – Ancient Minerals Mag Flakes (for bath or foot soak)
          – Magnesium Bicarbonate Water
          – Mag Bisglycinate
          – Mag Malate
          – Magtein
          – Mag Citrate in a Multi-mineral supplement
          – Mag Oxide in a Multi-mineral supplement

          These are all good in their own way, and each does its own good in its own way as well, less the Oxide one which is not a good form. I didn’t take all of these in one day; the Water was everyday and Oil usually too, and I mostly rotated the others taking 3 or 4 of them a day. I just tried to estimate how much actual elemental Mag I was taking orally and its not as much as I would have thought, judging by the quantities listed on the bottles. I would say anywhere around from 500 – 800mg per day orally which includes the Water, and then I worked up to adding about 8-10 sprays per leg of Oil before bed (some on sore tendons on arms too), so all in all not that far off from what you are doing.

          Maybe once a week I had a bath with the flakes too, and I still do this as I find I feel really good after as it also helps Alkalize my body and I am very acidic. My joints really suffer after a bath though (if hot) and I take very cold showers after to try and alleviate this, which does help a lot (and both together simulate a form of hydrotherapy). Floxies are full of inflammation (the joint and tendon issues are tell-tale signs) so really a hot bath or shower is a terrible overall idea IMO, as it is big time pro-inflammatory. What I found really helpful and still do is mostly avoiding the water in warm shower (mine also has Fluoride and 7 other toxic chemicals) and then end with very cold water sticking in one limb at a time (I can’t handle my whole body, one limb sucks as it is!). As I am active in sports I suffer from tennis elbow, tendonitis, shin splints, joint issues all over, feet issues, and then add to this some Floxie damage lower legs and all other issues magnified due to pills. This shower technique, along with dipping my arms and lower legs/feet into a sink full of cold water 5 times a day is totally helping shut down all the inflammation everywhere, and I can now play sports every 2nd day. I also do many things to Alkalize, as being acidic will also cause inflammation, diet is biggest but Baking Soda, Lemon Chlorophyll water, Apple Cider Vinegar are a few more tools to use. Without this I would be lucky to exercise once or twice a week at most, and I would have ongoing tendon and joint issues, which I am so grateful I do not now.

        • Jason May 22, 2015 at 6:53 am

          Hi all. I just wanted to share just how effective the Ancient Minerals Magnesium Oil is

          I am having a small relapse, or stated more accurately “re-mobilization of toxins” this week, after being virtually symptom free for the last 6 weeks or so. I wish I knew what caused it so I could share that, but my memory is terrible and I did not write it down when it started. Its very possible it was a combination of things, not really sure this particular time, here are the possible culprits though: Played Soccer on Sunday, very intense running; too much fluoride ingestion in tub and drinking Lattes; using Epson Salts in bath for the first time. A few other people have noted bad reactions using Epson Salts, I really wonder if a Floxie should be avoiding them completely, maybe that type of sulfur is just no good for us (could stir things up and interact with them too). At any rate, I think I will stick to A.M. Mag Flakes for bath since this has never happened with them.

          So how this started, was with a “buzzing” in the front part of my upper right leg. It was painless, and just felt like a “fly” was stuck inside my leg, best way I can describe it, no idea if its PN, a tremor, something else, or just the toxins at work. I’m not sure how long this went on, I think a couple of days. I also had some small random tremors all over in body, very infrequent but thought it was worth noting. This “buzzing” is very different than what use to usually happen, which was painless “electricity” or very tight tremors shooting up and down my lower legs, always followed by pain (this was a constant repeating pattern for me for 2 months in beginning). This time, it was this buzzing, and it was localized to only one spot, it did not move at all, first time for this.

          Anyway getting to the A.M. Oil, I was spraying it on upper leg trying to see if it would calm the buzzing, and it did help I believe but it is very likely I did not put enough to really quiet it, and it was coming and going as I said for roughly 2 days. Yesterday I played some light Tennis in morning, no ill effects showed during. Later in the day I “think” a little pain started, but it was very little if at all. Last night I played Tennis again as I felt good mostly. As I was playing, I started get more and more pain in the upper right leg where the buzzing was, and eventually I had to quit and could barely walk, it felt like someone kicked or punched me in the front of the leg, very sore, like a bad charlie horse. This pain following the buzzing follows the typical pattern for me, just the buzzing was shooting electricity before. I figured this is a very big muscle, and probably its going to be sore for a good 4 days at least, which would also fit the prior patterns.

          So last night I did many things, some I should have definitely done sooner; like taking Benonite Clay with Psyllium husks in water before going to bed (soak up toxins) and I took a bunch of Iodine (helps detox Fluoride). Also last night I had a cool shower, and I put very cold water on the sore part of leg for a good minute or so, as it was likely very inflamed and I wanted to calm it down. After the shower, I sprayed the leg with about 10 sprays of Mag Oil (most potent one, pure mag), THIS helped immensely. This immediately cut the pain in half, and I would hobble around the house a little better. About an hour later, I sprayed the leg again with another 10 sprays on the Mag Oil, then THE PAIN WAS GONE! Even I was quite taken aback by this, I knew it would help but honestly from limping out of the Tennis court to pain free just 4 hours later seems nothing short of miraculous. So far this morning I’ve been up 3 hours, no pain and no buzzing, I feel like I could go play Tennis again. I can hit my leg right where it was sore, the is just no pain at all.

          The Oil doesn’t just work, its exactly what a Floxie’s body NEEDS in my opinion, the body is being robbed of Magnesium, we know this, and when you replace it with good quality absorbable Mag, well, my little story here speaks for itself. Hope that helps some of you out there.

        • Linda Livingston May 22, 2015 at 9:23 am

          Jason, wow that is great! I can’t wait til I can do any of that. (Of course, never having played soccer, that WOULD be pretty miraculous) Anyhow, just wanted to make one comment re the epsom salt bath. My guess would be, it was the fluoride in the water rather than the salts, that was the problem.

        • Rene May 22, 2015 at 11:50 am

          Hi Jason,
          Your experience correlates to what I have found. The only caveat is that the dosage is very individual. There are times when more is needed than others, such as your incident where a couple days back to back of higher dosage is beneficial. Than you may need to back off, should the individual experience lethargy, dizziness, low blood pressure.

          I also want to mention the Cafe lattes. Two aspects here, to consider. The casein in the milk. Also coffee is a methyl donor or has large groups of methyl donors. Though the effect of feeling more focused from drinking coffee is a direct result of those methyl donors it does not address the underling issue of “Methylation” in a stable, sustainable way….and can be too much all at once. That is where the leafy green vegetables, and B12 (in the Hydroxycobalamin form) or Methylcobalamin form are needed. (Not everyone can tolerate the methylcobalamin form, and the Hydroxy form is tolerable for everyone. Cynocobalamin is cheap and a waste of time, and money, and found in many formulated multi vitamins)

          Anyhow, methylation ties into everything, as far as neurotransmitters, detoxification, immune function, DNA repair, membrane fluidity, digestive issues….etc. Magnesium is as you now know is a big player, and so are the B vitamins, in particular B12 & B6 B9……in the forms that are appropriate for each individual. This is a mammoth topic and complex….but based on the description that you gave of high exercise, & coffee, and the symptoms showing up I thought it telling of the CNS & peripheral nervous system, and supports that you may benefit from along with the Magnesium Oil.

        • Jason May 22, 2015 at 6:54 am

          Oh forgot to note too, MORE is better, in this case too, as my experience would show

        • Jason May 22, 2015 at 7:50 pm

          Thanks Linda, I do certainly feel lucky having read numerous stories and old posts in these pages here at FH. I do wish I knew for certain what triggered it in order to help others, for me I am kind of glad its happening I don’t want that crap stored in my body and want it out, and I’m more than fit to deal with it currently.

          Hi Rene. I know the Coffee is bad on many levels, it is one of my temptations that I have trouble saying no to even if its only once a week :( I do drink decaf, which has its own issues and still comes with a little caffeine of course, but it has never bothered me anywhere near as much as caffeinated. Oh and don’t forget the antibiotics in the milk! :( I am going to have to cut back on them now sadly, and you’re right they mess with Neurons on many levels too, I was quite surprised just how much when I first read about it. I think I noted this recently, that apparently it passes the BBB like its wasn’t even there, here is good little short article I read recently about it for anyone interested:

          http://worldofcaffeine.com/caffeine-and-neurotransmitters/

          It sure seems suffering Floxies having caffeine is a really bad idea, just look at these quotes from that short article:

          “All psychoactive drugs, including caffeine, achieve their effects by imitating or altering the release or uptake of neurotransmitters, the chemical messengers that direct how the neurons of the CNS interact with each other”

          “Caffeine achieves many of its effects by blocking the activity of adenosine, a neurotransmitter that affects almost every bodily system. Scientists have learned that, largely as a consequence of its blockade of adenosine receptors, caffeine also has profound effects on most of the other major neurotransmitters, including dopamine, acetylcholine, serotonin, and, in high doses, on norepinephrine.”

          Now look at this from another website:

          “Adenosine is a nucleoside that occurs naturally in all cells of the body. In the body, adenosine helps in cellular energy transfer by forming molecules like adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and adenosine diphosphate (ADP). In the brain adenosine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. This means, adenosine can act as a central nervous system depressant. In normal conditions, it promotes sleep and suppresses arousal.”

          —-

          So you are potentially screwing around with ATP something that is already not functioning correctly, the CNS and of course increasing your risk of anxiety and insomnia two things many Floxies suffer from (not to mention heartburn, making your body much more acidic than it already is, withdrawal headaches, list goes on) Then as you said there looks to be effect on Methylation, which as you point out does indeed look like a complex subject.

          Note that the article linked is mostly pointing to the “upsides” of consuming caffeine and conveniently omitted the many many downsides.

        • Linda Livingston May 22, 2015 at 8:07 pm

          Damn I miss coffee (and wine, and an occasional scotch. I read the article Jason, thanks. Coffee has some really good benefits (Including possibly protecting against certain cancers, depression and type 2 diabetes), so I hope someday I can enjoy it again. (and make that latte with almond milk :) )

        • Debs May 23, 2015 at 9:53 am

          Hi Jason,

          One of the reasons so many of us are unable to tolerate caffeine, & in fact I still cannot tolerate coffee per se many years down the line after floxing, is due to the FQs inhibitory effects on the liver P450 enzyme pathway, for many of us, ingesting caffeine can make us feel very ill indeed, & this of course also apples to many drugs etc, the majority of which the Liver P450 enzymes are also responsible for metabolising. This damage also explains why we now cannot tolerate various drugs we might now experience, having been able to take them with no problems at all before we were floxed, & can often also apply to other drugs we might have to take in the future .
          This inhibition of the liver P450 enzymes, can last for months , sometimes for years is seems , & I being floxed so many times, & also seriously floxed more than once do sometimes wonder If mine will ever recover . The timeline of recovery from this, does it has been noted, tend to correlate somewhat with the severity of floxing. This issue which so many of us experience is in fact discussed in some depth in The Flox Report pages 110 – 114, if you are interested .

        • Jason May 22, 2015 at 8:27 pm

          Its my wife she is a bad influence! She loves to go to the local Portuguese bakery, so of course there you can’t control what goes in it. At home, I LOVE to use unsweetened coconut milk, and make Lattes with Chicory Root and not coffee at all. This took awhile to get used to the flavour but it really grew on me (especially when using some Coconut cream) though it does not quite compare to a good ole “European Latte”.

          You know I swear I read recently about taking a supplement while drinking caffeine and how it would let you enjoy the benefits without the downsides, but for the life of me can’t remember which supplement and quite find the article sorry wish I could now

        • Jason May 23, 2015 at 10:47 am

          Thanks Debs. I have seen you mention these inhibitory effects on the liver P450 enzyme pathway before in regards to other drugs I believe, didn’t know it also applied to coffee. My Liver was already not very happy before floxing…. :(

          I did just take a look at those pages, here is a quote for anyone without the report: “For instance, as your P450-1A2 enzyme is largely inhibited after you have ingested cipro or levaquin, if you drink a cup of espresso coffee, the caffeine concentration in your body can be 6 to 10- fold higher than in normal situations, bringing you to
          the edge in terms of nervousness and agitation”.

          I found this quote curious “The floxed person only has reason to worry if his/her reaction has been severe. For mild and intermediate reactions, the inhibition of the P540 pathways returns to normal in some month’s time.” I think this is a broad sweeping generalization likely based somewhat on assumption (it does stand to reason many things will be worse with worse floxing of course) and of course does not account for a persons state of health pre-flox and many other factors. Not sure what it was even based on (observations from a few hundred?) but I would advise it be taken with a large grain of salt.

          The chapter right after that answered one of the questions that has been bugging me lately as I could not remember for sure whether FQ’s make you more susceptible to damage from the Sun. Apparently it does, and it sure seems I experienced this a month ago as I was outside for an hour on a 12C day that was cloudy and got burnt on my nose. Now UV was still there of course, but last year I would not have got burnt on that kind of a day, no way. So while I am mostly ‘symptom’ free these days, there are multiple instances of lasting ‘damage’ in my body, that will hopefully heal and dissipate with time.

        • Jason May 23, 2015 at 12:05 pm

          I just wanted to make a fast note here to SM, since reporting how my own pain completely disappeared with the Mag Oil, and I know you have been having lots of trouble trying to quiet your own pain. Unfortunately I believe the pain from PN is very different than regular muscle and tendon pain, and likely has to be addressed in its own specific way, much like treating PN itself vs. just treating general FQ toxicity as I addressed a page or so back.

          Unfortunately again, I am not exactly sure how to quiet pain from PN and if its even possible, as I have not researched that in detail as of yet other than what I posted already (where Mag does apparently help, but its likely not enough on its own). I just wanted to mention this because I know you are frustrated with this lasting PN and the pain, hopefully you went to the links I posted before there was a lot of info to take in there and then you had some real life experiences to view at Earth Clinic as well.

  27. Jason May 20, 2015 at 8:34 am Reply

    Since we are talking about Mag here, I would like to stress again just how easy and cheap it is to make the Magnesium Bicarbonate Water. Its dirt cheap, you can buy a bottle of Milk of Magnesia for $3, just make sure you buy one that has NO additives what-so-ever, the only ingredients should be Magnesium hydroxide and purified Water. Then buy 1 Liter Carbonated Water for $1, again the only ingredient here should be Carbonated Water, nothing else. So we are talking $4 here, and this will make about 10 – 12 Litres of Water, almost enough for a week.

    Here is how easy it is to make. Open the bottle of Water and pour out about 1/2 cup (and do whatever with it). Shake MoM and then Measure 3 TBSP and slowly pour it in water. Shake bottle vigorously for 10 – 15 seconds, put it in the fridge. 1 hour later, remove bottle and shake it again for 10 -15 seconds, put back in fridge. DONE! It couldn’t be easier. Bottle should be “sunken in” if the reaction worked properly.

    This is now a Magnesium Bicarbonate concentrate, I add about 2/3 of a cup of this to 2 liters of RO Water, and drink water through the day. Note this water is not exactly Mag Bicarbonate but estimated to be very close to it.

    Here is WHY you want to make this cheap and easy to make water:

    http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/the-ultimate-mitochondrial-cocktail

    Remember Floxies have damage to their Mitochondria, here as you can see Dr. Sircus is calling this water “The Ultimate Mitochondrial Cocktail”. I don’t know what more needs to be said, that is some extremely high praise, and this is coming from someone who is an expert on Magnesium.

    FOLKS I CONSIDER THIS MANDATORY FOR EVERY SINGLE FLOXIE OUT THERE!!!!

    In my unprofessional opinion of course. Please read the article if you are still not convinced, its a great article and sure convinced me to do it, I had to buy the MoM from another country too as Canada is too stupid to have pure MoM on the shelf (Don’t buy the Philips brand it has bleach in it!)

    Here are a few quotes from the article, which show you WHY this is critical for Floxie IMO:

    “Without removing toxins and acids from all organs, cells and tissues, and without providing the essential nutritional building blocks like magnesium, the body will not be able to heal completely. Unless a treatment actually removes acid toxins from the body and increases oxygen, water, and nutrients most medical interventions come to naught.” (Me => this is why detoxing this junk is so important)

    “Increased oxidative stress, which correlates almost exponentially with ph changes into the acidic, is especially dangerous to the mitochondria, which suffer the greatest under oxidative duress.”

    “The most powerful alkalizing foods on the planet are the ones that are highest in chlorophyll. In Magnesium Medicine, my third magnesium book due out soon, is a chapter called The Lamp of Life and it’s about the central role that magnesium has in life. It is also the central atom in the chlorophyll molecule. Without magnesium, without chlorophyll, life simply does not exist.”

    “Magnesium and bicarbonate rich mineral waters are easily absorbed and have many health benefits. Likewise, in small doses, the two together make up an ideal treatment system for distilled and reverse osmosis water. Adding these two substances to taste not only will remineralise highly processed water but will provide the body with a constant supply of the ultimate mitochondrial cocktail.”

    “Few clinicians are aware how these two substances work to enhance each other – they are mutually reinforcing because magnesium functions as a bicarbonate co-transporter into cells. And bicarbonate acts as a transporter of magnesium into the mitochondria.”

    The bicarbonate acts as a transporter of magnesium into the mitochondria. All the info in the article and quotes I put above are important, but that right there is one powerful statement, I don’t know how accurate it is, but I banked on it and hope you will too. There are many many more technical jargon’s, statements, references etc in the article.

  28. shela Thompson May 20, 2015 at 9:40 am Reply

    Hello im new to this site I’ll post my story later due to my weak state im in this morning but im happy that i live to see another day.

  29. Debs May 23, 2015 at 11:17 am Reply

    The Flox report is NOT the bible for floxing, & as a result it should never to be taken as set in stone. It does however give a very good general outline of ‘ the floxing experience ‘ & as someone who has experienced many floxings I feel it is a very useful resource when it is used in the correct way . This includes the most important part of all which is to make sure before a person reads anything else, they read the introduction FIRST. I cannot state this fact enough, to read the introduction FIRST is SO important .
    The introduction to the flox report explains how it should be used, & also exactly how it should be interpreted . Unfortunately. too many people completely ignore & skip the introduction as is often the case with ‘ small print ‘ & then the report can be completely misinterpreted, people can end up terrified & end up thinking they might never get to a place where they might eventually feel recovered, which of course for many, is just NOT the case.

    In respect of the sun , yes Jason, The FQs are indeed photo toxic. to both human & animal I unfortunately know that all too well, win I was still unaware of what had happened to me, my beautiful cat Shadow, was permanently blinded by Baytril. enhanced by him going outside. This caused irreversible retinal degeneration, a FQ ADR which is particular to cats.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9559584

    • Jason May 23, 2015 at 11:56 am Reply

      Sorry to hear about your cat Debs

      • Linda Livingston May 23, 2015 at 1:13 pm Reply

        Jason, if you know—Is the phototoxicity only while on the drug?

        • Jason May 23, 2015 at 3:40 pm

          Well, according to the report if you had a severe reaction: “Big risks of getting serious damage from sun exposure last not less than three years, During that
          time eye pain is also experienced when standing on bright sunlight. High ultraviolet radiation has to be avoided during some years. Dangerous situations are high
          altitude sunlight, and summer, midday exposure.”

          Of course remember this is just a general sort of ‘guideline’ to go by as Debs points out with lots of potential exceptions possible, like people with Mild reactions having the same risks etc. The trouble is our DNA has been damaged (which is bad it of itself since DNA damage all by itself can cause cancer) and according to the report its the genomic DNA also, which increases the risk of photocarcinogenesis. How long this damage takes to repair would be extremely variable from person to person for sure (but there is hope as the body is set up to repair DNA damage amazingly enough)

        • Linda Livingston May 23, 2015 at 3:45 pm

          OMG! 3 year? Eke. I do have extreme sun sensitivity eye-wise now, as well as blurred vision and floaters. What a mess this causes. Thanks

  30. Debs May 23, 2015 at 11:19 am Reply
  31. John May 23, 2015 at 6:46 pm Reply

    I was floxed 3 1/2 hrs ago and a huge change in my lifestyle is my sensitivity to the sun, as far as skin is concerned. I CANNOT go outside without sunscreen. My skin took on a pinkish yellowish look. I’m fair skinned but was always out in the sun and didn’t tan easily. Now, if I’m out even 10minutes I get sun burned.. It sucks, I’ve had to alter my way of life, my care free attitude about being outside and what I wear. With that said life has gone on. In the last 3 years I’ve been able to travel with my family, I live in so cal and often take my kids to the beach early in the day in the summer time. I swim with my kids in the evenings and and I do my own yard work late in the evenings. I still go out in the sun but with EXTREME caution and at certain times of the day. I use long sleeve shirts when I know I’ll be out during the day. Part of recovery and healing, I’ve found, is adapting. I know it’s tough. It’s weird, but I accept I’m altered. As long As I am able to, I will enjoy life with my family and thank god they are ok. It’s strange how this toxicity linger on years later even. With time, my sensitivity has gotten progressively worse.

    • Linda Livingston May 23, 2015 at 7:22 pm Reply

      Oh no, sorry to hear it has gotten worse. I too live in Southern California. I haven’t noticed anything with my skin yet, but have spent most of my time indoors since I was floxed in February. I did however notice extreme eye sensitivity. Even with sunglasses on, I had to hold something over my eyes when I was driven to the doctor. It seems like it gets a little better then gets worse again…but not as bad as initially. I was wondering John, what if anything you did treatment wise, when you were floxed or since then?

      • Debs May 24, 2015 at 1:54 am Reply

        This extreme sensitivity to light is a very well known symptom of FQ toxicity I had this 24/7 for a very long time to the point where I even had to wear sunglasses 24/ indoors at night even total darkness was too bright. This has resolved now. & only now occurs when I experience what I call my floxingheadeyeaches. I have found that time passing, as with so many of the various other symptoms of floxing we might experience tends to sort this extreme light sensitivity out.

        • Linda Livingston May 24, 2015 at 8:34 am

          Debs, always nice to hear it resolves. Actually I thought mine had after a month, but now it is intermittent, which I hope means it is headed in the right direction.

        • SM May 24, 2015 at 9:16 am

          Linda- My eyes have never been affected to my knowledge. But my skin was early on. Just after floxing, way before I comprehended all this, I visited my parents in Canada and spent hours fishing on a lake in the heat of June. The tops of my feet got burnt, something that would have usually taken a few days to heal. That discoloration in my feet lasted for more than a year. It faded, but was there. It’s gone now I think. I’ve never experienced any other sun issues. My body seems to want the sun and I often sit out for 20-30 minutes without sunscreen to get some D.

        • Linda Livingston May 24, 2015 at 9:24 am

          That’s good to hear, SM, because even though I religiously wore sunscreen everyday, there are times now when I feel like I want to get at least a little “vitamin D” from the natural source. Thanks for sharing. (I am concerned too because my father lives in Hawaii and when I visit I spend all my time in the sun…)

      • John May 26, 2015 at 12:11 pm Reply

        Hi linda,
        I didnt start taking supplements until last year. like most people, i dont know if its really helping, but its definitley not hurting. Heres my timeline:
        Floxed dec. 2011
        Year one: joint/ligament pain, rashes, sun sensitivity, muscle wasting amongst other floxed symptoms. Dr said my body would bounce back, never did
        Summer 2013 – my symptoms were still there, but i felt great, i was hitting the gym and running 3-4 days a week. I thought i was back. Noticed weight loss, but i was looking strange i was losing “collagen” and looking back i was probably over working my floxed body.
        February 2014: the knees, shoulders, hands, hips, and even my toes hurt. The pain got worse. I also started to develope floaters and my vision got really sensitive. My ears got dry as did my skin. This is when i started looking into the antibiotic i took and immediately made the Conmection. Since then i take 250 mg of mag citrate, vitamin d, and a multivitamin, i drink lots if water, and wear sunscreen everyday. I no longer work out like i use to. I take short walks with my kids and do yard work around the house.

        • Linda Livingston May 26, 2015 at 12:23 pm

          Hey John, thanks for the breakdown. I am hoping that since I started treating “early” I will have more long-lasting success. I was just floxed in February of this year, and had the first indications that something was not right after only three pills. (I took a 4th not quite knowing the connection yet.) I wasted more than a month trying, unsuccessfully, to get help from the medical community, who mostly said it couldn’t be the cipro. I finally ended up at a naturpath’s, where I have been getting assorted IV drips twice a week. I have come a long way in just under two months, and have a ways to go. Unfortunately, it caused horrific breathing problems, among everything else, which I am still struggling with. Also dropped 30 lbs in 2 months—mostly muscle, and have only been able to put 8 back on as of now. Anyhow thanks again for posting.

  32. Jen May 26, 2015 at 8:05 am Reply

    Has anyone tried colostrum supplements? Any insight/feedback would be appreciated. Thank you!

  33. John May 26, 2015 at 1:32 pm Reply

    Hi all,
    I was curious if anyone has heard from or about the “cipro is poison” guy. His site was one of the 1st i came across when i was floxed. He mentioned he was floxed in 09, 6 yrs ago, and was wondering if hes made any sort of recovery or progress. Im curious about floxed victims over the 5 yr mark if theyve made recovery and have healed so much that they are back to functioning close to normal? Its brutal how this stuff messes with your cells long after its out of your system. Ive had drs tell me that, yes fq’s can cause all my symptoms, but ususally during or shortly after taking the fq, as opposed to years later. The floxiehope community has helped me in many more ways than the drs ive seen during my ordeal.

    • Linda Livingston May 26, 2015 at 2:55 pm Reply

      Your doctor experience was far better than mine! I was told it was impossible, I was delusional, etc. What area do you live in? Definitely more progressive!

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