Floxie Hope

Floxie.Hope.1800.72.dpi

This site is to give HOPE to those who are suffering from Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome as a result of being poisoned by fluoroquinolone antibiotics – Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin, etc.  It contains stories of healing.

Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox and all other fluoroquinolones are dangerous drugs that can have devastating effects that cumulatively I’ll refer to as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome or Floxing.  Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing includes damage to connective tissue (tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, etc.) throughout the body, damage to the nervous systems (central, peripheral and autonomic), and more. The damage done by fluoroquinolone antibiotics can destroy a person’s quality of life or even kill them. Certainly, there is a time and a place for drugs with dangerous side effects. If you find yourself in a septic shock induced coma, fluoroquinolones may save your life. Unfortunately, these drugs are not being reserved for life or death situations. People are being prescribed them for urinary tract infections, suspected prostate infections, upper respiratory infections, as a prophylactic for travelers’ diarrhea, ear infections, pink eye, etc. Thousands of people have suffered needlessly from the devastating effects of fluoroquinolone antibiotics, when another, safer antibiotic could have, and should have, been used.

The damage done by fluoroquinolones is largely unacknowledged by the medical establishment and an accurate diagnosis, compensation and relief are difficult to come by. There is no known cure for Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome/Floxing.  However, many people continue to LIVE after being poisoned by fluroquinolones.  They find healing, recovery, perseverance, compassion and hope.  These are their stories.

This site is meant to give hope for healing to those who are adversely effected by fluoroquinolones.  It is no way meant to disregard the pain of those who are chronically suffering from the horrifying effects of Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox or the other fluoroquinolones.  There are people who don’t recover.  Their stories are real and they matter.  There are also people who are able to recover and I share their stories with the hope that they inspire others, or at least give hope that recovery is possible.

Here is a New York Times article about the dangers of fluoroquinolone antibiotics – http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=0 – more news stories, research papers and other resources can be found on the “Links and Resources” page.

Here is a Facebook group that is a great resource for those going through Fluoroquinolone Toxicity – https://www.facebook.com/groups/floxies/

Featured post – I’m floxed. Now what?

The Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Solution Ebook has helped many Floxies to recover, including DanielCindy and Ruth.  As a bonus, you will also receive The Floxie Food Guide – a book of diet guidelines to help you through fluoroquinolone toxicity:

flu tox get help you need banner click lisa

 

 

 

24,060 thoughts on “Floxie Hope

  1. Dee January 10, 2020 at 9:31 am Reply

    Hi all! Well here is what I know about my contact dermatitis due to lidocaine injections. I have a Doctor that is pretty good and also recognizes my FQ reaction and has a pretty good understanding of it. So yesterday I went to see him about this ongoing dermatitis which in his opinion I had a hypersensitive reaction to the lidocaine which caused a mast cell activation because my immune system is very compromised by my Cipro reaction. Therefore my immune system gave me a chronic reaction to the lidocaine trying to fight off this allergen entering my body!! So I don’t know much about mast cell reaction but I know L you have done a lot of research? For now my Doc has prescribed Eucrisa a “non” steroid creme to try and treat my sores. Do any of you know much about this reaction?? Do you think my reaction will calm down in time since it has been 10 weeks post lidocaine? I would think my immune system and mast cell activation would eventually calm down. Of course my immune system is not “normal” so I’m guessing may take a few months??? Any ideas on this?? Damn Cipro anyway for causing this!!!

    • L January 10, 2020 at 11:46 am Reply

      Mast cell is a huge issue, and still much misunderstood. I actually went to an allergist who deals with mast cell issues, early on in this congestion nightmare. The problem with the initial mast cell tests are that if they are positive, it means you have it. If they are negative, it doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t! So I did the first two, both negative, and the third I believe involves a biopsy so I stopped there. She put me on a compounded medication (ketotifen) which also didn’t seem to make much of a difference. I stayed on it for a while because it is also used for asthma, but finally stopped after about 6 months since it is not covered by insurance.

      If you had mast cell activation syndrome, I think you would have more than that one reaction. This is systemic. At any rate, I came to be in touch with this lovely woman out of Australia, who is kind of a mast cell guru. She has a site that talks about diet and other things. Check her out. https://alisonvickery.com.au/histamine-intolerance-which-food-list-should-you-use/

    • Madge Hirsch January 10, 2020 at 5:59 pm Reply

      Hi Dee- I am wondering if my ongoing hive issue might have something to do with mast cell activation. Taking Cetirizine (generic of Zyrtec) worked fine but even a half pill was making me very somnolent. On looking up Zyrtec side effects I came across another medical horror that I was starting to have hints of- Zyrtec withdrawal . I had been trying to take as little as possible to keep the hives under control and was managing 5mg every 3/4 days. But I had noticed that when it was time to take another pill the hives seemed worse than before and also that my scalp was itching and burning which I had not had before. To my consternation I found loads of stories from people who had awful symptoms of entire body itching when stopping Zyrtec even when they had been taking it for hay fever and such allergies and had never had hives! Some people had been on it for years and their withdrawals lasted months. I stopped immediately and now it is a week since my last dose. The hives have come back plus itching on the soles of my feet and palms but today it has been a bit better and the scalp itching and burning has reduced. I had only been taking this horrible drug for 5 /6weeks and have only taken about 9 pills altogether but I feel I have had a close shave. I have sent for some Benadryl cream to put on when the itching gets really bad.

  2. L January 10, 2020 at 12:18 pm Reply

    I was just reviewing the site I posted above for Alison Vickery, who deals with mast cell and histamine issues, and thought this particular page would be of interest to those still dealing with gut issues. She talks about the use of binders in helping to remove mytotoxins, heavy metals, etc. https://alisonvickery.com.au/binders/

  3. Don M January 10, 2020 at 2:09 pm Reply

    Comments please…….. I just returned from a visit to an ND doctor. He thinks that among several other things that NAD would help my complaints of unsteady balance and spacey feeling. It is not so much “brain fog” as it is fatigue, spacey feeling and very poor sleep. Also I am wondering if NADH would not do as well. Since it would be orally I suppose it would be much longer before real benefits were seen. Is it worth the effort and expense? Comments?

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 10, 2020 at 2:38 pm Reply

      I think so,Don.And adding Pau D’Arco will improve the absorption,adding to the effect.In fact;I take both,and although not long enough for a definite report,it seems to improve my energy.The character of the FQ toxofication,with frequent ups and downs,makes it hard to be sure,though.

    • L January 10, 2020 at 2:48 pm Reply

      NAD has potentially some great benefits. The problem, like with everything else, is absorption. (I got NAD IVs and they were EXPENSIVE!) Here is a great article re the bioavailability…of course they are trying to sell a product as well. But I would try to find perhaps liposomal or maybe even oral drops might work better than just a pill that has to fight its way through the digestive tract. https://nadovim.com/nad-in-a-pill-challenges-bioavailability-and-formula/

      • Don M January 10, 2020 at 5:14 pm Reply

        Thank you Henk and L……….. Since I got home I have been doing some reading on NAD and it appears to be worth a try. Thank you L for the reference to the web site about Nadovim. It is some very interesting reading. The per bottle price is a “bit !!!” expensive but if it would work as well as the IV it might be the way to go. The fatigue, sleep problem and the unsteady balance problem are my worst ones now. If they were corrected or just helped I could deal with the others a lot better.

        • L January 10, 2020 at 5:42 pm

          I don’t recall the exact amount now of the IVs and I had to do a minimum of 3 or 4, …all in days in a row, and I recall it being WAY more expensive than the other IVs I did, which were themselves expensive. I know it was over $1,000…maybe even 2. It is often used now to get people off drugs and alcohol without having to go through the awful withdrawals.

          anyhow, if there is something that can replicate that, that’s great. If you do, report back!

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2020 at 3:04 am

          Don,have you,because of the sleep problem tried Magnesium L-Threonate? This one easily passes the blood/brain barrier and does work better on mental things,sleeping problems included.For me it’s too expensive but I tried it experimentally,for a while,and it really works.

          For now,I stick to the cheaper Glycinate form,and combined with melatonin and a mug of camomilla tea my sleep is,more or less,oké.Only the feeling of exhaustion at wake up is still ther,but I have that for about 20 years,now,probably caused by the PPI I used,and the magnesium defficiency it caused.It started right after I started the Losec,but because I had a few very dramatic and stressfull experiences,just before the Losec,I considered the Losec “not guilty”.To learn,later on,that it was the start of my health detoriation,and the cause of a growing list of other med’s on my list,and even more problems and detoriation.This is how the Farmafia works.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2020 at 3:57 am

          Don,and others with fatigue, sleep problems,unsteady balance and tingling in hands,feet,legs might be interested in Dr.Mercola’s article for toda:

          https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/01/11/vegan-vitamin-deficiency.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art2HL&cid=20200111Z2&et_cid=DM431359&et_rid=787466501

          Just ordered 2 spray bottles of B12 because my last I finished my last one a few days ago.This is by far the most convenient way of supplementing B12,it’s cheap (about € 0,10 per day),and it is an effective way of getting more B12 into your system.I use it since several years,now;started during my “Losec” time.

        • Don M January 11, 2020 at 6:49 am

          In the end it is a pitch toward selling one on trying the NAD+ IV treatment. https://www.ivforlife.com/treatments/nad-iv/ But there is some interesting information learned by reading the information on the web page. What I am learning is that the treatment lasts about 5 (or more) days and costs from $4,000 up. See next post for some information about NAD+ sublingual drops.

        • Don M January 11, 2020 at 6:52 am

          https://alivebynature.com/liquid-nmn-drops-the-ultimate-delivery-method/ The web page discussing the NAD+ sublingual drops and other items that they also sell.

        • Don M January 11, 2020 at 7:20 am

          Henk and L ……….. I do use Magnesium L-Threonate and sublingual B 12 which is Methylcobalamin (10 to 15 mg daily) as well as Dr. Carolyn Dean’s Remag liquid magnesium. I also use a lot of infrared light therapy to avoid any ingested pain killers. Maybe this is the reason that things are not worse than they are. I would just like to minimize the balance and spacey feeling problem. The FQ toxicity seems to have really affected this part of my nervous system. This NAD+ looks promising for that. Maybe the sublingual drops would work and one could eliminate the high cost of the IV treatment.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2020 at 8:38 am

          I hope it works for you,Don.Good luck,and have a nice weekend.

  4. Dee January 10, 2020 at 6:49 pm Reply

    Madge, wow that is interesting what you found out about Zyrtec. That is good you quit taking it. I took Zyrtec for 3 day’s. It didn’t seem to help my dermatitis issues so I stopped it. I have read suggestions to try Quercetin as a antihistamine? I’m thinking of trying it? I am totally stumped about what product to put in my skin sores to get rid of this red, itchy, scabby sores. I have not tried hydrocortisone or steroid creme as I am concerned about using steroid cremes. I ordered a product called Emciaid which is all natural and I guess some people have had luck healing their skin with it?? We shall see. I’m getting pretty discouraged at healing this skin disaster! I’m just praying my immune system will calm down in time and it will go away. I pray🙏🏻🙏🏻

    • L January 11, 2020 at 12:09 am Reply

      Quercitin did not help me with my issue, but I would certainly give it a try. Lots of health benefits.

      • Madge Hirsch January 11, 2020 at 6:32 pm Reply

        I have thought about trying it. Apparently it is not well absorbed orally and adding bromelain helps with this. NOW do a combined supplement as do Doctor’s Best. The problem is that I am on Eliquis ( an anticoagulant ) because I have afib and bromelain has some anticoagulant properties too. It might even be the Eliquis that is causing the hives though I have been on it since last March when I had the TIA and the hives only started about 7 weeks ago. Plus I have had hives in the winter before. The itching ix affecting my sleep. I actually think it’s probably floxing as I have been getting some facial neuropathy as well . I have had this before like a tingling/ crawling sensation in my cheek .

  5. SLOVAKIA January 11, 2020 at 2:45 pm Reply

    Hi friends , I have a question, what water do you drink? fresh or tap? I drink from the tap and a lot because of detoxification, but I’m worried, because some say there may be fluoride in the tap too … what is your opinion, experience?

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2020 at 3:08 pm Reply

      Here some info in english

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 11, 2020 at 3:09 pm Reply

      And in Slovakian?? I can’t read,you probably can:

      http://pitnavoda.enviroportal.sk/

    • L January 11, 2020 at 3:49 pm Reply

      Where do you live? There are very few places in the US that do not add fluoride, which you want to avoid. If you live in another country your odds are better. You can find this info online. Then there are all the other things like lead you want to avoid. I buy mine from a
      water store, 3-5 gallons at a time. I buy distilled and add back in the minerals with something called ConcenTrace. Reverse osmosis is probably fine too. https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/

      • Don M January 11, 2020 at 5:17 pm Reply

        There are also filters that one can buy and install at home that will remove the fluoride from your water. Just have to google for the information.

  6. Dee January 12, 2020 at 8:50 am Reply

    Madge, maybe try the Quercetin without the Bromelane and see if it helps your itching some?? No harm done?? I think I might try it just to see if it helps my itching?? I couldn’t sleep last night because my itching was so bad so I guess I have nothing to lose??

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 14, 2020 at 2:52 am Reply

      Hi,Dee,today an article by Mercola that might give a possible solution for your skin problem.So logical,in fact that I didn’t think of it: vit.D.You’ll need it,in a bio-active form (vit.D is oftens old as an oily substance,but it must contain a bio active form to work well).You can rub it in/on the effected skin parts,if you want to give this a try.

      Most people,today,are very deficient in vit.D.Not enough direct sunlight,and taking a shower,every day,makes it inpossible to obtain your vit D. from the sun,anyway.And you NEED cholesterol for your skin,to produce vit.D! Here’s the article:

      https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/01/14/vitamin-d-protects-against-infections.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art3HL&cid=20200114Z2&et_cid=DM435959&et_rid=789321427

    • Madge Hirsch January 14, 2020 at 1:48 pm Reply

      I have had some respite with the hives. I have stopped taking NAC for a few days now. I had doubled my dose to 1200mg a day whioe fighting off a bug that my husband came down with. I will have a week or 10 days off and then restart. Any respirewith the dermatitis yet?

  7. Andrea January 12, 2020 at 9:12 am Reply

    Don, I’ve read you’re interested in trying NAD supplement. I’ll give you my experience. I’ve tried it in the past. It was NAD+ from Life Extension (Nicotinamide Riboside). I’ve tried it for only a few days, and I stiopped immediately. It was giving me weird headaches and a bad feeling overall. Just my experience of course.

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 12, 2020 at 10:04 am Reply

      Andrea,I use NAD for several weeks now,since a few weeks combined with 1 cup (=1 teaspoon) of Pau D’Arco,every day.Just stopped de Pau D’Darco,temporary,because my divertical started bleeding,yesterday.I don’t think the P’D is the cause but for a faster healing,stopping the P’D seemed the best thing to do.Have had no headaches from the NAD.Maybe you might try with extra drinking,next time? Taking in too little water is a known cause of headaches.

      • L January 12, 2020 at 11:28 am Reply

        and I got IVs of NAD every day for 3 or 4 days, each time for several hours. Zero side effects. (Didn’t help the issue I had hoped it would help, but who know what benefits I might have gotten from it.)

        • Don M January 14, 2020 at 6:36 am

          L……. To read the benefits that NAD can give is very impressive. As you say…… Does it really live up to the claims for everyone? The claim for IV is that it puts 400% more of the “good stuff” into your blood than using oral forms. Will the sublingual liquid be better and show some “real” results? Will just have to see.

          Checked with my ND and it appears that he is getting $250 per IV treatment. As I read the online sales pitches it appears that at least 4 IV treatments are needed. Rather expensive if the sublingual drops will work ………. only slower.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 14, 2020 at 6:56 am

          Don,might this info be helpfull?

          https://alivebynature.com/sublingual-nmn-and-nad/

          I’ll stick to my NAD caps,and add the Pau D’Arco back in,after my guts have healed from the bleeding.Slower,but much cheaper,and faster isn’t always better, in MHO.The Pau D’Arco,besides other health advantages,speeds up the absorption of the NAD.

        • L January 14, 2020 at 10:16 am

          well his IVs were actually less than mine….but yeah, I would definitely try the sublingual…or perhaps there is a lypo-spheric form?

        • Don M January 14, 2020 at 7:52 am

          I have read most all of the information on the AlivebyNature web site. At $36.95 per month for their liquid NAD+ I think it is worth a try to avoid the higher cost of the IV. Will sublingual liquid be beneficial enough to be worth it? I guess I’ll just have to try it and see.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 14, 2020 at 8:01 am

          You’re right,Don;only trying such things will prove if it’s worth the money. It is cheaper than I expected it to be,but still quite a bit more expensive than my caps and the P D’A tea. Please,let us know if this works for you,as soon as effects are noticable,or should have been but weren’t.

        • Don M January 16, 2020 at 8:16 am

          CORRECTION!!! I previously said that AlivebyNature’s liquid sublingual NAD+ would be $36.95 per month. WRONG!!! Upon receiving the product I find that the little 15 ml bottle is to be used at a rate of 0.5 ml sublingually about 8 times per day. Meaning that a $36.95 bottle with last less than 4 days. Requiring about 8 bottles per month at a cost of $295.60. Not at all what I envisioned it to be when reading the literature. It may be “good stuff” but is it worth that much?

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 8:25 am

          You know,Don,using my quite cheap NAD capsules,optionaly combined with Pau D’Darco for a better absorption,might be taking a bit longer to fully work but,after eading what the AlivebyNature product costs,and the IV treatment,I prefer my cheaper choice ;-))

        • L January 16, 2020 at 11:52 am

          curious if anyone makes a liposomal one….which would also aid in getting it where it needs to be without the degradation of digestion

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 2:04 pm

          As far as I think to remember,that’s what the Pau D’Darco is doing;getting it where you need it (Mercola article,that I linked here,a little while ago).

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 8:29 am

          CORRECTION: it’s,in fact,not a choice at all because I couldn’t possibly afford either of those other two possibilities.

        • L January 16, 2020 at 11:51 am

          yikes! that is quite a bit. Well, like I said, those particular IVs I recall being the most expensive of a very long list of IVs they offered.

        • Don M January 17, 2020 at 9:38 am

          L…… Her is a listing of the NAD in lipo form. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=liposomal+nad%2B&t=crhs&ia=web

        • L January 17, 2020 at 11:18 am

          seems like that might be the way to go. Still not cheap, but seems worth a month’s try (looking at the quicksilver.)

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 17, 2020 at 11:35 am

          L. I think “Still not cheap” is an understatement.One month will cost you $54 + shipping;that’s over $650 for a year supplement.

          “Quicksilver Scientific Liposomal NAD+ Gold is on the cutting edge of anti-aging supplementation. That doesn’t mean that its principal ingredient, NMN, is some sort of miracle cure that will send you back to your early 20’s. Rather, NMN supplementation is one of the most viable methods for raising NAD+ levels in the human body. NAD+ is essential to all life on Earth and its decline MAY be one of the greatest factors in the aging process”.

          I think,TIME is the main factor ;-)) And I think that the wish of staying forever young,and the fear of getting old is effectively exploited,here.With no guarantee,whatsoever. The “Gold” refers to the price,I suppose?

    • Don M January 12, 2020 at 1:57 pm Reply

      Andrea……. Thanks for the reply. The NAD that you were taking (from Life Extension) was in pill form. Pill form…..meaning it had to pass through the digestive system.The one that I am going to try is a liquid administered as sub lingual. Made and sold by Alive by Nature https://alivebynature.com/liquid-nmn-drops-the-ultimate-delivery-method/ The sublingual liquid ends up with a higher percentage in the blood. Will changing the way it is administered make a difference? We will see. Thanks for the heads up about possible headaches.

  8. Larry January 13, 2020 at 2:56 pm Reply

    lisalisa12years, I believe you’ve mentioned that you’ve had nerve damage for many years now? What are your symptoms?

  9. Don M January 14, 2020 at 9:57 am Reply

    Dee……….. Look into Niacinamid. There might be some way that it could be useful in your trying to treat your skin sores.

  10. Dee January 14, 2020 at 5:35 pm Reply

    Henk. Thanks for the info!!!!
    Madge, went to new Derma yesterday. He thinks I have Nummular eczema. Nasty stuff. You need strong steroids to knock it out. Sooooo it looks like I might have to use steroids. Can take a long time to heal. I am bummed. Glad your hives are better!!!!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 15, 2020 at 3:54 am Reply

      Hi Dee,don’t mention it.Read about the derma;he “thinks” you have Nummular eczema? Sounds very scientificaly diagnosed ;-)) No known cause,but surgery might contribute to the cause.Might take a yeea to improve.

      https://www.healthline.com/health/skin/nummular-eczema

      Well,I’d give bio-active vit. D oil a try,and maybe some other remedies,before ever going for the strong steroids,which will not “knock it out” but only give temporary improvement;this is a chronic condition.This alopathic “remedy” is called “managing the symptoms”,which iswhat the alopathics,most of the time,do;they are not “healers”.They only “manage” the symptoms with other “medicines”.Which might,after a while,create a need for other yet another bubch of “medicines”.Etcetera;saw my mother die,eating meals of pills and capsules,every day,at age 57.

      Nature can really heal,and the vit D. oil,and UV therapy will probably do a better job than more synthetic stuff,like steroids.Narrow-band UV-B 311 nm Philips lamps are,as far as I know,the best in this field.I mainly use mine for up-leveling my vit. D. and don’t use them often,or on a regular base,but they seem to help with the excema I have (Manager’s disease).

      Comming to think of it:vit.D oil, UV-therapee,which produces vit. D on/in your skin; Dr. Mercola might not be that far of,with his advice :-)) If possible,you might want to use both.Remember;you’ll need a bio-active vit. D oil;others (the cheap vit. D drops) might not work.

    • Rae January 15, 2020 at 11:33 am Reply

      Try original Listerine (gold one) for the rash. Test with some on a cotton ball first. You can cut up and soak a baby wipe in it and leave that on the spots (the baby wipe will stick).

      Listerine has eucalyptus, menthol, a form of salicylic acid and thymol.

      • Rae January 15, 2020 at 5:12 pm Reply

        Top Care and Equate use the same formula as Listerine. It really works for shingles!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 15, 2020 at 2:29 pm Reply

      Dee,the advice from Rae,although with the best intentions,is a bad one;all variëties contain fluoride,and the gold one (Rae’s favorite) even contains a double dose of fluoride.Better keep away from it.This is,in fact a mouth “water”.

      • Rae January 15, 2020 at 3:44 pm Reply

        Zero fluoride in the American brand, Henk! See for yourself!!!

        https://www.listerine.com/mouthwash/antiseptic/listerine-original-mouthwash#inactive-ingredients

        • L January 15, 2020 at 3:50 pm

          except under inactive ingredients, the first is “water” and if it is manufactured in the US then there is likely fluoride in that water. Also it doesn’t say “purified” or “distilled” or anything of that nature.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 1:10 am

          You’re right,Rae! Strange,that they put that poison in Listerine,here,in NL.and not in the same product,in the USA ;might it be because you have fluoridated tapwater,and we don’t? Might it be that it’s because of fear for overdose,because you have a daily intake,by tapwater,already? Here,the government is still trying to convince the people of the positive effect for theeth (which is never proven,and in fact,proven not to be there).In fact,it causes bone,brain tendon/muscle and nerve damage,in time.Mounting proof of that!

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 1:43 am

          But it does have Poloxamer 407 in it,which is not what I want to put in my mouth! Look here,under “Biological effect”:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poloxamer

      • Rae January 15, 2020 at 4:18 pm Reply

        L, Of course it is made with distilled water! Otherwise there’d be sediment, it would not be uniform, etc.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 1:19 am

          Rae,non-destilled water usually does not give sediment;you’re wrong on that one. Or maybe the water company who delivers your tapwater is not filtering it to the point where you can call it CLEAN.When there’s sediment in your drinking water,you’ve probably got a lot of other unwanted substances in it as well.Send a sample to a lab for a safety test!

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 1:28 am Reply

      Sorry,Dee;I was wrong on the fluoride in Listerine.In NL the Listerine (yellow colour) has a double dose of fluoride,but in the US there seems to be no fluoride in it (well;not mentioned in the ingredient list,anyway).

  11. Andrea January 15, 2020 at 4:13 pm Reply

    In my experience, I’ve used many products with fluoride : toothpaste, mouthwash etc. None of them ever bothered me. I know everyone is different, but I belive that many of us wouldn’t react so bad for those small amounts, expecially when you don’t take them internally

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 1:24 am Reply

      Andrea you would be amazed how many substances easily pass the skin.And Fluoride,once in the body,builds up because it’s hard,for the body,to get rid of.

      Fluoride: Poison On Tap – Full Documentary:

      • Don M January 16, 2020 at 7:54 am Reply

        Thanks Henk. Thanks for posting the video. There is so much untruth in all the industries (especially the medical) that one does not know what to believe and what not to believe.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 8:06 am

          Hi Don,I know;it’s not easy to know what’s true,and what’s not.A simple rule: if there’s money involved,and the “facts and science” is presented by a source who’s profitting from it,direct,or indirect,chances are high that the truth is violated for gain.

    • lisalisa12years January 16, 2020 at 1:33 am Reply

      The fluoride keeps our teeth strong. I’ve been going to the dentist my entire life.. I was told I had ” soft teeth ” never ever told that before. I’m 58 floxed in 2007 Didn’t know what was wrong until 2011. Starting trying desperately to heal using subliguals vitamins and minerals. I was almost totally depleted of everything. Thus the soft teeth. I had a primary tooth until I was 54 years old. It cracked in my sleep one night. Just found Jason’s has a probiotic toothpaste and also a tooth strengthening tooth past. They seem to have helped make my teeth stronger. I’ve been using colostrum four years this February. Helped with Gut issue and pain in my shoulders. Both torn. Actually trying desperately to survive and thrive as best possible until perhaps they find a way to stop slow or fix what’s happened to us. Until then Magnisium. For EVERYTHING b6 & biotin for neuropathy pain takes the burning and feeling of bugs crawling inside the legs. I just took as much as possible until the pain / burning went away now I take several capsules weekly depending on my nerve pain. Bless all the Floxies. This is the most horrific thing that’s ever happened to me and all of you. Has anyone developed kidney issues. Just when I think I have it covered. Seems like nope 🙅🏻 not yet. 13 years. I was 45 in the best physical and mental state ever in my life. I lost my Father to a tragedy. Exercise and walking helped the stress. I found PEACE from 2003 – 2006 I was in a Court room 5 days a 🙌 Finally OVER I climbed the Dunns. River falls in Jamaica in April of 2006. I took levequin the 1st time March 19th 2007. 4 more times up until 2009 Avelox once. Seems these companies KNEW the worst damage would happen months and years after stopping them. The reason why law suits said must have had an injury within 30 days of stopping these poisons. They knew some people would react immediately. The majority later years later STILL happening. Does it EVER stop ? I’ve felt okay for a week perhaps two than down and out. Praying for all to heal and for all to fight against this. Surrvive until they find a way to totally stop it. Permanently give our lives back. ✌ to all.

      • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 2:21 am Reply

        Lisa,the claim that Fluoride makes your teeth strong is a myth.And the fact that you were deficient in Magnesium was the probable cause of “soft teeth”;it ruined my teeth as well and is a known cause of tooth decay and a long list of other health problems.In fact,magn. deficiency is often called the (dirty) doctor’s secret;they own much of their income to deficiency of magnesium,and other minerals and vitamines.

        Their problem? Law does not allow patenting natural substances like magnesium,or vitamine D. Yet!

        • Don M January 16, 2020 at 8:02 am

          Henk….. I read in many different places that fluoride is an industrial waste. To get rid of it was expensive for them so they set out to convince the public that fluoride had health benefits. Fluoride is even manufactured now days. I requisitioned my city about using it in our water and was told by one of the city engineers that the fluoride “they bought” was of the highest quality “manufactured”. They BUY “manufactured” fluoride to dump in our water!!!

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 8:09 am

          Half truth,here,Don;Fluoride is a by-product of the aluminium industry,so;it is an industrial product.

        • sheila January 16, 2020 at 10:37 am

          so I have been researching the fluoride and teeth and here’s a link that is easy to understand: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-does-the-fluoride-in/
          a small excerpt: Fluoride is a naturally occurring element that prevents tooth decay when ingested systemically or applied to teeth topically. The fluoride ion comes from the element fluorine. Fluorine, the 13th most abundant element in the earth’s crust, is never encountered in its free state in nature. It exists only in combination with other elements as a fluoride compound. It is found in this form as a constituent of minerals in rocks and soil everywhere. Water passes over rock formations containing fluoride and dissolves these compounds, creating fluoride ions. The result is that small amounts of soluble fluoride ions are present in all water sources, including the oceans.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 11:22 am

          Sheila,there is little evidence of Fluoride preventing tooth decay,and in the meantime a mountain of evidence that it lowers,IQ in children (and,later on,adults).It is a neuro toxine,samages bone structure etc.More than enough reasons to keep away from Fluoride.

          Both articles you linked have opposite opinions,and in that case it’s smart to go with the safer opinion,I guess.

        • sheila January 16, 2020 at 4:40 pm

          that’s why I posted both so people can do more research and make up their own minds. These are not my personal opinions

        • L January 16, 2020 at 12:00 pm

          I would not rely on information provided by the American Dental Association. Like the AMA, they have been “schooled” by corporate interests. https://holisticdentalinstitute.com/dangers-of-fluoride-in-toothpaste/

        • Andrea S. January 16, 2020 at 11:30 am

          I really wish here in the states we had an option of non flourinated water. As a kid I grew up on flourinated water and also got substantial flouride treatments from my dentist. Here I sit with every molar chock full of fillings. So much good that did me. That coupled with a more then likely aggressive drill happy dentist. My boys all three of them have perfect choppers. I think each kid had one filling. One measly filling and were lacking in their brushing and oral health. But I don’t attribute that to flouride as we always had some type of reverse osmosis filter in the kitchen. I know it’s a hot and debatable topic. From what I understand Flouride is beneficial in the very early years but serves useless once the teeth are formed. The majority of people who are having tooth loss in their older years is due to periodontal disease or very bad oral hygene ie: sick or elderly who cannot care for their teeth daily.

          Speaking of teeth I wondered if I could ask those of you who had your root canal teeth removed was it hard to get the tooth taken out and did you seek a holistic doctor? How did you replace with an implant? I have had a bad run with my teeth this is all prior to my stupid self medicating on a small dose of cipro. Although my teeth have gotten worse. Anyhow I am still in pain and want to remove the two teeth that were recently root canaled. I am curious what some of you did to replace the teeth? I don’t want to grind down a perfect tooth next to the gap so it seems an implant is the better choice? Anyhow sorry to digress off your post Henk. 😉

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 11:48 am

          “From what I understand Flouride is beneficial in the very early years” Well,those are the years that the young,growing brain of children is highly sensitive to neurotoxins.That’s why they (Farmafia and government) put them full of fluoride,and things like MSG,Mercury and Aluminium,found in vaccines.Now making them mandatory!

        • L January 16, 2020 at 12:20 pm

          Like you I had TONS of fluoride growing up, and also TONS of cavities. And yes, I wish they would just do away with the fluoride altogether in our water. WE are the LAST major industrialized country to continue to fluoridate, because, $$$$$ (like everything else.) There are a couple local municipalities that don’t fluoridate but they are few. I buy my water in 3 or 5 gallon bottles.

          I posted this before, but since you asked about root canals….Several years before being floxed I had three of them. Paid $1,000 each and the LOST each tooth within a year. At the time I was mad at all the money spent. But after I learned how toxic root canals are, I was glad they were gone. It is the only procedure where a dead body part is left inside you, and the bacteria from that can spread through the many canals and into your entire system. Most holistic dentists will not do them. I have only seen a holistic DDS since being floxed. He charges a little more than my old dentist, but not much, and definitely worth it. (He also removed my amalgam fillings.) (The gold standard for finding an holistic dds is one that is Huggins trained.) Anyhow, two of those teeth were on the end, so no real problem there. But the third was between two other teeth, and if you leave an open space the teeth eventually start to move and then you end up with more issues. I didn’t want any kind of surgery, so I have what is called a “flipper.” It’s just a little molded thing that looks like a real tooth with gum around it and it just pops into place. I only remove it at night when I brush my teeth, and clean it and then pop it back in. I think you can have a flipper made though that covers more than one tooth. https://articles.mercola.com/what-is-a-root-canal.aspx

      • L January 16, 2020 at 11:09 am Reply

        Fluoride does NOT keep teeth strong. I grew up with fluoride water, fluoride treatments, fluoride tooth paste and had more cavities than any one I know. Fluroide in fact SOFTENS the tooth. This was just all a big lie foisted on the public, so the aluminum industry could get rid of its manufacturing waste. Naturally occurring fluoride, along with OTHER minterals, was found to improve dental health in a small study done decades ago. But then the information was cherry picked to suit industry needs. https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/fluoride-in-water/

        • Andrea S. January 16, 2020 at 11:33 am

          L I too have a disgusting amount of cavities and we also had access to great denistry and flourinated water and dental treatments. Did nothing for me. When I was an adult and got a new dentist they said oh my… you grew up on well water? I was like no we had city water with flouride. My teeth are time bombs ready to go at any moment. I wish that flouride was optional in our drinking water.

        • L January 16, 2020 at 12:23 pm

          you and me and a LOT of other people. Even Erin Brokovich has joined the cause to remove fluoridation. Moms Against Fluoridation is a group that has been vocal about this for years…and now they are heading to court! https://www.momsagainstfluoridation.org/lawsuit/

  12. Sachi January 16, 2020 at 2:52 am Reply

    Hi, Just in case this is useful for someone else. Four years out from poisoning, I’m finding some apparently safe relief for chronic plantar fasciitis from the topical salve sold by Lazarus Naturals. My father has Leukemia, and he told me that this brand works well for his pain relief needs. He’s tried another brand, but this one works best for him. I am not going to be taking CBD in pill or tincture form, but as a salve, this brand is pretty effective. The pain relief builds up over time. It doesn’t take immediate effect. I’m realising that one of my Cipro side effects is chronic pain in my heels/feet. I have to switch from waiting for it to be over, to managing the pain. https://www.lazarusnaturals.com Well wishes to everyone, Sachi

    • Henk Noordhuizen January 16, 2020 at 8:19 am Reply

      Sachi,I ,too,have pains in my feet;don’t even know if it’s tendons or nerves,but most of it will probably be the tendons.Not every day,and not always on the same place(s),ome of these pains disappear in a few hours,some of them last for days,some even much longer.

      But,because I suspect most of them are from damaged tendon’s,I’m very weary of using anything to lessen or take away the pain,because the pain is a warning signal,and I’m afraid that taking away the pain might cause even worse damage because of putting too much stress on those,already weakened tendons.Please,be carefull!

      • Don M January 16, 2020 at 9:26 pm Reply

        I (without a doubt) have peripheral neuropathy. My feet are in a constant state of discomfort. My hands have weird things that happen to them. I use light therapy when ever they become painful. It works! It is not a lasting thing but works to temporarily mitigate discomfort/pain. I have a 12X12 light panel that I put my feet under. There seems to be a rather strange sequence of events that occur when my feet are under the panel. At first they tingle for about 10 minutes. Next they become painless. After about 30 minutes they stabilize to a comfort level. Upon removing the light this will last for a few hours. Painless and non invasive. So it can be repeated as often as one wants to do it. Try it. One has nothing to lose and may gain some comfort.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 17, 2020 at 3:10 am

          Hi Don,I just bought two of the Philips 175 watt infrared bulbs. What I noticed is that,where the backside of my old clear white infrared lamp got quite hot,immediatly after switching on,these ones stay remarkably cool,while the lightbeam,at a distance of ca. 40 cm’s is warm,instantly.Philips claims it has an output of 90% IR.From an other Philips source (I linked a while ago) I know that these lamps have exactly the right nm range.

          https://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/conventional-lamps-and-tubes/special-lamps/infrared/infrared-industrial-heat-incandescent/923801444210_EU/product

          I paid under €30 for the lamps and shipping.Of course;you need an armature;mine is an old,heavy and steady desk lamp,inherited from my grandfathers limonade factory :-)) I wanted to put the other one in an armature,above my bed,but it doesn’t fit (yet ;-)) My former IR lamp,a clear one,100watt,did fit because the narrow part of the tube was longer.

        • Don M January 18, 2020 at 4:43 am

          Henk……….. “I wanted to put the other one in an armature,above my bed,but it doesn’t fit (yet ;-))” There is a bulb extender available. It is a male/female thing that screws into the existing socket and then one can screw the bulb into it. It will make about a 1 inch extension from the existing socket. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bulb+extender&t=crhs&ia=shopping

          Have you had a chance to use the bulbs? Do you find any pain relief from a treatment with them?

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 18, 2020 at 8:05 am

          Thanks,Don;I ordered 2 extenders at Dennisdeal.Will take 15-30 days for delivery.My lamps are industrial quality heavy duty lamps,and weight over 300 grams,so,I hope this will not be too heavy for those plastic extenders.If so,I can modify the armature to use without an extender;it’s quite easy.

          The old desk lamp,once owned by my grandfather and probably had a long life of duty in his limonade factory.It’s heavy, and stable,and made of oldfashioned steel,and it’s easy to aim in any direction you’d wish for.Way better than the armatures,Philips delivers today,and a perfect fit for this lamp!

    • L January 16, 2020 at 11:21 am Reply

      Had you tried other CBD topicals before? I ask because I have tried several of them and am a bit gun-shy about trying another.

      • Sachi January 17, 2020 at 3:27 am Reply

        Hi L, I haven’t tried other brands, but if I remember correctly, my father did try other brands and dosages (which is expensive to do). In his case, the CBD dosage required trial and error. Also, in his case, this is his best pain relief option long term and he absolutely has to have this relief. I don’t want to take the oral kind, but topically CBD is working. I already have professionally made orthotics, and diagnosed plantar fasciitis. Some say that plantar fasciitis doesn’t mean that you have to stop walking. Back to CBD though, it seems to require time to build up in my system before I can tell it is actually working, so about a week of application before the pain relief really takes effect. As far as I can tell the product that I mentioned is a quality one with enough actual CBD in it to make a difference over time, if pain relief is what you are wanting to find for yourself? I think that Henk has a good point, I wouldn’t want to push so hard that I create additional tendon damage. So it’s all a kind of trial and error, guessing game, etc. I guess Flouroquinalone poisoning is generally like that.

        • L January 17, 2020 at 10:59 am

          Thanks for the reply. Yes, I thought it was supposed to work on first usage…

  13. Andrea January 16, 2020 at 8:34 am Reply

    To lisalisa12years

    Hi, I’ve read your post. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with that kind of pain and feelings. I hope one day you’ll find the peace we’re all looking for.
    One thing that got my attention is you’ve mentioned colostrum for GI issues. Right now, well, for a year now, I’m dealing with lots of guts issues. Probiotics sometimes help a little, sometimes they don’t.
    After reading your post I’ve googled colostrum and I’ve found that there’s some proof it can help with leaky gut. The problem for me is that I haven’t been eating any kind of dairy for about 2 months now, and it’s making a huge difference regarding the joint pain. Can I ask you what were/are your GI symptoms (diarrhea? constipation? etc) and how colostrum helped you? Thanks a lot. Also what kind and what dosages of colostrum are you taking?
    Oh, and feel free to ask me anything you want too 🙂

  14. sheila January 16, 2020 at 10:41 am Reply

    also on the fluoride subject here is another link that shows this topic is challenging, the key word I found was EXCESSIVE exposure would cause health problems and that level is identified in this article but how do we know how much we are actually getting is my question: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/154164.php#takeaway

  15. L January 16, 2020 at 12:04 pm Reply

    Your sources are biased in old-school, AMA, big pharma dogma. You will not get the same health information from a routine allopath that you will get from an integrative MD or ND. And one of their review board is a pharmacist. They are only passing on the same biased information. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/reviewers

    • Don M January 16, 2020 at 9:36 pm Reply

      They always say to get nothing positive done form a committee. Looks like a bunch of “yes people” to me.

      • L January 17, 2020 at 12:51 am Reply

        That’s funny. Never heard that expression.

        • Henk Noordhuizen January 17, 2020 at 2:04 am

          I dutch it is called “ja knikkers” (yes nodders) 🙂 We got lots of them 😦

  16. Andrea January 18, 2020 at 7:55 am Reply

    Has anyone ever tried L Glutamine (high dosage) for leaky gut?
    https://healthygut.com/articles/l-glutamine-7-dos-and-donts/

  17. Henk Noordhuizen January 19, 2020 at 2:19 am Reply

    After salt and saturated fats (The cholesterol myth) sun exposure proves to be yet another lie to NOT keep us healthy,told us by government and industries:

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/01/19/sun-exposure-health-benefits.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art2HL&cid=20200119Z2&et_cid=DM441026&et_rid=793219387

    How much prove does one need to realize that our “democracy” is,in fact Corporative Fascism?

  18. Henk Noordhuizen January 19, 2020 at 2:21 am Reply

    Oh,and let’s not the Fluoride lies!

  19. Henk Noordhuizen January 19, 2020 at 2:22 am Reply

    Sorry;let’s not forget the Fluoride lies!

  20. Henk Noordhuizen January 19, 2020 at 2:54 am Reply

    Oh.I forgot one; the lie that synthetic and chemical “medicines” would be better and safer than natural medicines and remedies.Well,of course;that’s why I’m sick,and my health is destroyed by PPI’s and antibiotics,during the last 20 years,and the little bit of health I got left is the bit I was able to restore with naturals.

  21. Henk Noordhuizen January 19, 2020 at 2:56 am Reply

    I forgot one; the lie that synthetic and chemical “medicines” would be better and safer than natural medicines and remedies.Well,of course;that’s why I’m sick,and my health is destroyed by PPI’s and antibiotics,during the last 20 years,and the little bit of health I got left is the bit I was able to restore with naturals.

    • Don M January 19, 2020 at 6:52 am Reply

      Henk…. Yup. Your right about the Pharma industry and many others too. I spent over 30 years with the idea that the doctors and their medicines could fix things. Then I got connected with the Internet and began to read. And guess what I learned? Many doctors were biased. They usually put tongue in cheek when asked if an alternative would work. Now I am not talking about emergency medicine. Emergency medicine and emergency rooms can and do save many lives. It is regular day to day medicine that has been co-opted by the Medial/Pharma industries. The much healthier people are the ones that try to avoid established medicine.

      I am learning that ND and Integrated Medicine doctors appear not to be so narrow minded as the industry influenced doctors. There is a world of alternative treatments out there. The fix does not have to always come from a prescription bottle or surgery.

  22. Andrea January 19, 2020 at 6:58 am Reply

    Henk…everything in moderation…
    You need the sun, of course, but not too much, skin cancer is real. If you’re like me, with fair skin, all you need is about 15-30 minutes everyday in the midday summer sun (depending on where you live of course), that’s why I take vit. D supplements only in winter, and my vitamin levels are higher in summer 😉
    As far as the “cholesterol myth”, it’s not a myth. Too much cholesterol in your diet is very bad for you, you need fats of course, but the right ones (nuts,seeds,avocado,some fish etc.). Also remember that things like oats, brown rice and even vegetables contains small amounts of fats. But sayin that cholesterol is a myth is just wrong. And I’m more and more convinced that is a move from the food industry. The consumption of things like cheese, beef, pork, eggs has skyrocket today, and they’re telling us that is perfctly fine to eat those things. And there’s also a big amounts of studies that connect the consuption of those foods with a lot of diseases. The bulk of your daily calories should always come from carbs (the right ones of course) so I’m talking about : any kind of vegetables, legumes, moderate amounts of starchy foods (brown rice, sweet potatoes etc.) , small amounts of fruits, fats like the ones I mentioned above, and occasionaly some fatty fish.

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